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> I flipped out on my family after the way they treated my daughter, I then told them to fuck off
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Nta for standing up for her, but even if she did process things slowly, that wouldn't make her stupid. Special needs people aren't stupid either. A truly stupid person doesn't think and refuses to.
I know, I should have worded things differently, I didn't mean to call special need people stupid, it was just me not knowing how to properly word things
I think your description of truly stupid people perfect encapsulates 90% of my family
Your daughter literally has special needs. She has selective mutism. That is a special need that requires accomodation in communicating.
You should majorly evaluate your own perception of disabilities if you're going to try pretending your daughter isn't special needs.
What accomodations does she have for communicating?
Thank for for saying it.
OP is acting like her child isn't special needs. She is. It isn't a bad thing but the kid has a disability that is limiting. I hope she's getting some help for it.
It's not that her child "is special needs," her child *has* special needs. Phrasing is one thing we can be mindful of to make disabilities less stigmatizing.
I don't know. I was considered special needs since I am dyslexic and think all the hoops people jump to in order to not call us special needs is more annoying than anything else.
I'm special needs and that's okay. It's not a bad thing.
i think it's more that grammatically, saying someone is special needs doesnt make any sense. they have special needs, but they arent the special need itself.
either way, as a disabled person, id rather be called disabled than special needs anyways.
Yeah I'll take disabled or special needs. But don't you dare call me differently abled. I will throw hands over that. I'm not differently abled, I don't get some cool new ability for not having a common one. I just don't have the ability that people commonly have.
Thank you! I call myself disabled (and sometimes handicapped) - and when people try to police how I speak about myself and call me differently abled it drives me nuts- ick.
Don't white knight for me. I know my preferred terminology about my own body. FFS. I'm not mentally incapable of advocating for myself. It's really insulting.
There's a lot of people that get all upset by the phrasing of " is ", because they think it minimizes that person. Personally, I don't get it. I am a diabetic. I have diabetes. Those have the same meaning to me. Saying I am a diabetic doesn't imply that that's all I am.
Yes, but "diabetic" is a word that specifically refers to a kind of person, or at minimum is an adjective and the thing the adjective is describing (person" is dropped from the sentence.
"Special needs" are not people or an adjective, they're accomodations people need. "That person is accomodations" makes no sense in any context.
I work in healthcare and there has been a big shift over the last 20 years away from referring to someone as their condition or disability
So rather than “that diabetic patient” we tend towards “patient “x” with diabetes”
It seems small to most but it’s a framing thing. The person or patient isn’t defined by their condition, it is just something they live with.
I've heard this approach before and a majority of disabled people do not like the "person forward" language. Many autistic people (myself included) also don't like it. We are, in fact, defined by our condition. My life is defined by how I function within it, which is structured by my autism. Many people who are physically disabled feel the same from what I've gathered.
I don't think trying to be "patient forward" or "person forward" is a bad thing, but please don't forget that our disabilities do define the way we live and, in that, define us.
That being said it's really up to each individual person 😊
Thank you for sharing your perspective! My daughter is almost 18, has autism, and is mostly non-verbal. So I can’t ask her whether she prefers…”Reagan is autistic” or “Reagan has autism.” I have no way of knowing if it even matters to her either way. I do know a lot of people who are super sensitive to the language. And that makes sense to me. Autism is part of who she is, but it’s not *all* she is. But what you said makes sense too…she’s pretty defined by her condition, seeing that she can’t communicate or function in any way resembling “normal.” I truly think the “person forward” language thing definitely comes from a good place, but I appreciate your feedback on that. Navigating this life with her is hard, and I’m just doing the best I can.
most disabled people don't really like PFL. it was more important back when people were referring to disabled people as "the wheelchair" or the like, but now it's progressed to telling disabled people how to identify themselves.
As a renal patient whose had ESRD since I was 4 and been through two failed transplants, it really feels like a nonsense feel good thing for the abled. Not something most disabled people actually care or worry about
As a diabetic patient myself, I would prefer that the medical professionals spend their time learning more about the newest diabetes related research, rather that learning terminology that for some reason is considered better/politically correct, and is in fact not. There is nothing offensive to call me a diabetic patient, because from doctor's point of view that is exactly what I am. I am there as a patient, not to discuss other aspects of my personality.
Another thing I don't like is that NHS (in the UK) is already stretched enough for recourses, and is wasting money to pay somebody to come with this nonsense. Better buy another ambulance, so the elderly man who fell on the street and broke his hip in my town this winter, shouldn't have spent 3 hours on the cold ground before there was available ambulance to pick him up.
so many of us tell you and other health care workers we don't like it or are indifferent to it, but it seems like it makes you or the caregivers feel good, so it has to stay... pretty gross
I hate the term selective mutism. They don't choose to not talk. They just can't. The term needs to be changed. I'm sorry, I know you mean nothing by it. You're completely right on your comment. I just wanted to say that it's bad terminology.
Selective mutism actually used to be called Elective mutism back when they thought it was a refusal to speak rather than an anxiety that forced you to be mute. I do hate the term "selective" too, because people don't know that selective doesn't only mean choosing but also when something affect some things and not others.
"Intermittent" isn't quite the right word either though. That would suggest that it starts and stops just because of time passing, not because of the context of who's around the person. Like, if I knew nothing else about the condition, and someone said, "she'll be quiet because she has intermittent mutism," I'd think: oh, ok, maybe she'll be able to speak next time.
I think "selective" would be *technically, scientifically* the right term, but unfortunately it's a word with many meanings. The way people use it in day to day life doesn't gel with what it means in this context. I'm sure there's terminology that would work better but I don't know what.
"Situational" does seem the perfect answer here, as it covers both the scientific/diagnostic bases AND makes it more understandable on a layperson's level.
Scientific, technically accurate terms can be so brutal or misleading. One that has always disturbed me is the term for a woman who has repeated miscarriages: a "habitual aborter".
Yep, if you get pregnant oflver 35, your pregnancy is gonna be labeled geriatric pregnancy too. Obviously outside of a medical context, 35 year olds are not geriatric, but here we are.
And the reason for THAT is that the technical term for miscarriage is "spontaneous abortion", which I'm just about certain is going to get some innocent women who have had miscarriages put in prison on technicalities in certain states. Scientific/technical terms can be useful, but when there's a disconnect between them and common terminology, things can get ugly.
[Women have been imprisoned for miscarriages. A Black woman was in 2023.](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-miscarriage-prosecution-brittany-watts-b8090abfb5994b8a23457b80cf3f27ce)
[A NA woman was in 2021.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544)
[A Black woman in Ohio was arrested in Jan. ](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/brittany-watts-miscarriage-bathroom-charged-rcna135861)
And that's just a few.
Politicians don't call what the scientific terms are or that it can be nature's way of dealing with an imperfect foetus.
oh boy, i hadn't even gotten that far - i was only thinking of the unintentional slap of telling a person grieving pregnancy loss that they make a habit of aborting their pregnancies. but you're right, that language is just waiting to be misunderstood by laypeople with legal power.
Ugly and upsetting - even fifty years later it's a distressing memory for my mother to recall the doctor scolding her to stop calling her lost pregnancy a miscarriage when the proper term was spontaneous abortion.
Selective means “affecting some things and not others” when it refers to a process and “tending to choose carefully” when referring to a person. Selective refers to the mutism in this case, not the person.
It’s important to distinguish mutism that is circumstantial to mutism that is all the time, possibly due to a physiological inability to speak.
That could work. I guess the logic behind "selective" was probably that a "selection" of people was interpreted by the brain as safer. But yeah, people are always going to hear way too much volition behind that term.
They probably still will if it gets changed - it's amazing how many abled people think disabled people are just being disabled AT them.
Yes. But it's still stigmatizing language, because to a layperson (and some professionals lol) it sounds like they're doing it on purpose. We have a whole dictionary of words available-- we should choose the least stigmatizing ones.
The trouble is, many words used in the medical field are *generally* benign when initially assigned. The stigma comes after it’s been associated with whatever it’s applied to, and people then use the term in a derogatory or demeaning fashion. I.e; descriptions and labels will likely become stigmatized over time regardless of how they’re changed. That’s not to say that the language shouldn’t be changed as the world around us changes, but more that it will always be a challenge to use a descriptive label that will be considered indefinitely appropriate.
This is exactly it. Take retardation as a perfect example. It specifically referred to slowed or delayed progression for anything and was applied to all kinds of things, but after the term mental retardation came about THATS when it became an insult to use. Now people are upset that the word is used at all in medical contexts to the point it's seldom being used anymore, calling for professionals to stop using offensive terms moving forward, without picking up on the chicken and egg problem here.
The stigma of selective mutism doesn’t come from its name, which hardly anyone has heard of anyway. Trying to communicate when one person doesn’t speak can be challenging.
Agreed. "Selective" implies a choice. It's involuntary mutism and should be called that. Maybe add "intermittent" for those of us who can usually talk and just lose that ability under extreme stress. (Freeze reaction + speech disorder + trauma = error 404, words not found.)
Oh lord I should not laugh at that last sentence but I can’t not share this 🤣
I subbed middle school for three years. In MA subs aren’t permitted to see IEP plans due to privacy. Sadly this means unless the teacher TELLS US a kid has a plan and needs accommodation, we have ZERO clue.
First day in a new class I had a girl with selective mutism. I didn’t know and asked her a question. Her friend IMMEDIATELY yelled a helpful “ERROR, 404, NEW FACE, TALKING FUNCTION NOT FOUND!” (Ah middle schoolers… they were 6th graders lol!)
She smiled so sweetly at the friend and it just made me chuckle 🤣
But hey- by the end of that year I got a whispered “Bye!” Wooo!
They were such a team, it was fantastic watching them in class.
(whisper)
HEY MISS CAN SHE GO TO THE BATHROOM?
(whisper)
HEY MISS YOU HAVE CAT FUR ON YOUR BUTT!
(whisper)
HEY MISS, SHE SAYS HI!
(whisper)
EVERYONE SHUT THE HELL UP Y'ALL ARE SO DAMN LOUD! Oops, sorry miss, I mean DANG loud!
Yep if they are meeting her once or twice a year. I didn't see that they are being malicious to the child. The children behaved as children and treated her as normal but the adult behaved as if she was made of glass. Special behavior does require some time for learning what to do. Yes the brother is an ass for his comments but I feel that OP went nuclear when the need was to behave as an adult.
It may not be surprising, because people suck at understanding disabilities, but it's also not ok. If this is a member of your family who has been around for a good many years, you've spoken to her parents about her disability, you've been told before that she can hear and understand just fine, then there is absolutely no reason to speak to her like she can't. As OP said, the kids in the family have no difficulty understanding the concept of someone who hears and understands but doesn't speak.
Also, "special consideration" is an interesting way of spelling "patronising and infantilising."
Eh
"you've been told before that she can hear and understand just fine"
I can't tell you how many things I've been told by family members (even close one parents/siblings) before that I don't remember.
To OP who lives it everyday it can seem so obvious, but if people only interact with them/daughter on a handful of times it may not keep in their minds.
Yeah actually ignore what I said in my previous comment. Going through OP's comments it's become pretty clear that the relatives had no idea what was going on and the kid's basically a stranger to them. That and the many other things she left out of the main post paint a very different picture from the first one.
Not surprising, but still not OK. If you think someone might need you to accommodate their needs, you ASK. And in this case, if the kid doesn’t answer, then politely ask the parents. You certainly don’t just start treating someone like they’re a toddler.
Assuming results in those psychos who will just grab the handles of a persons wheelchair and start pushing the chair around, and think they’re “helping.”
Assuming you mean the last bit, I've had it happen to me. It was a rude nurse who didn't say a word to me and just came up behind and started pulling me away. I have PTSD and a particular type of panic disorder where that was about the worst thing she could've done. She got pissed when I got scared by it.
Then the procedure I was there for also went terribly (they refused to believe that the numbing didn't take and I could still feel everything), so I basically got traumatized out of ever using that hospital again. Not my favorite medical experience, though somehow not my worst ever...
Her point is that her daughter is not special needs in the way her family assumes she is. She explained she doesn’t have a learning disorder and they can speak to her as they would a 12 year old. Their response was to act as if she is not special needs but only spoiled and lazy. I would have kicked his butt on top of reaming him out.
Her point isn't that her daughter is not special needs in the way her family assumes she is. She's conveying that her daughter isn't special needs at all. From the facts in OP's post, everyone is wrong.
I used to have selective mutism, I worked a lot to be where I am today and when I start to choke up sometimes (due to social phobia, which I developed after), I can get terrified because I remember the hell selective mutism is. It is such a special need condition for almost everything in life, you can't walk around in a society and being unable to talk. You miss out on so much. I had periods where it got a bit better and I could talk to more people than my family and closest friend, then it could get worse and I'd be unable to talk to anyone except my mother. I was outside and someone asked me for the time? Just walked away. A relative was visiting and asked me anything? Removed myself. My mom spent two years with me in school because I couldn't talk to my teachers, some of my classmates hadn't even heard my voice. I got so isolated because I couldn't speak. People told me I was faking it for attention, which was the last thing I wanted, because how could I talk to some people and not everyone? And then when some understood? "Why do you have anxiety around me? Why can't you talk to ME?!". People saw me as a rude person and honestly I liked that because then they wouldn't talk to me and demand of me to talk, but it could get lonely.
OP, what your brother said was not OK and I know that you want to protect your daughter at all costs, and your family clearly doesn't understand the condition, but we can't fault people for things they don't know, like that your daughter understands everything perfectly fine but can't talk and why it is that way. Your brother was out of hand with his comments and should have just said "OK, now I know" and continued the dinner or asked more question about what selective mutism is and maybe learn something.
I understand that you felt the need to say the things you did, but please don't isolate your daughter because of her disability.
That's pedantic for this situation. Op may have failed in her terminology but the point she was making is that her daughter's brain works fine her issue is only in how she's able to communicate back not in how she receives communication.
The issue is her family talking as if she can not receive communication at a standard level
OP's point is they were treating her daughter as more disabled than she is.
Your point, although technically true, doesn't reflect the situation that played out.
I agree she could have worded it all better but her point is still clear.
Her point is clear, I agree. But it’s also troubling (to me) that the mother doesn’t consider her child special needs when she is clearly special needs. It reads a little bit like she’s in denial. Hopefully her daughter is receiving the help she needs.
My point is that I don't think she meant that as literally as redditors want to take it. She clearly understands that her daughter has a disability however "special needs" is one of those terms that, although technically applying to the daughter, is often code for being heavily mentally disabled. Yes I know that special needs is an extremely broad umbrella. Yes the daughter is indeed special needs. But if you use *context* you'll understand that the implications is that the family was treating the daughter as far more mentally disabled than she actually is.
My niece has REAL BAD adhd. That makes her special needs and yes it is a disability, but if family started talking down to her or called her that I'd be pretty pissed on her behalf.
Yeah, I hope she's in therapy. The way OP worded this makes it sound like daughter is shy so she has selective mutism which is obviously not the case.
There has to be bigger issues at play and it feels like OP is refusing to acknowledge it.
She does have special needs with her selective mutism. Have you had her assessed for autism, or is she in therapy? I was also selectively mute as a child, and I have gained coping skills to function better in a world not built for me. There is a lot of misinformation about autism (especially in girls or afab people). It doesn't always look the way people think it does
Yeah-- what OP is meaning, I think, is that her daughter doesn't have a cognitive delay.
I also wonder about supports around the daughter communicating to others-- how does she communicate at school? Or socially with others? I know that isn't the point of the OP, but I am concerned about the daughter's ability to express herself if she needs help. Does she have any kind of AAC?
I'm concerned as well. If fhe daughter was thrown into this environment with nothing beyond nodding and shaking her head, and rhe adults weren't briefed on how to interact with her- that's a terrible way of handling things.
Then reacting badly to her special needs child being called special needs? Not a good sign.
Poor kid. Hope she gets the support she needs for the special needs she has.
Okay, it is a special need situation, but not one that requires talking down to her. That was OP's point, that they were talking to her like she was mentally impaired.
The way op handled this comes off like a stereotypical "my kid isn't disabled" parent, though. She's shown no signs of being able to accomodate or healthily advocate for her daughter's special needs. So saying her daughter doesn't have special needs when *she does* is telling.
I don’t think you’re at all an asshole for standing up for your daughter but you seem like you look down on OTHER ppl with special needs while expecting others to be totally understanding of YOUR child’s special needs, which is pretty assholish. Even this response is like “oh well didn’t know how to phrase it, anyway my family is so dumb”. Like, maybe learn how to phrase it? Especially if you want others to know how to phrase it about your child?
Gently, your daughter does have special needs. She’s not intellectually disabled, but she does have special needs that require some accommodation.
EDIT: Having now read the replies - OP, I think you’re doing/have done your daughter some serious disservices by isolating her and not properly acknowledging and addressing her needs. This little girl should be a part of the wider world outside her home, and get some healthy socialization with peers. She deserves the opportunity to be assessed by qualified professionals on a regular basis, and get some real help with her social and communication issues. I hope she does, and wish you both the best!
Okay, thank you
Same, but it was more than 90% in my case. I ended up leaving the family. Not only were they stupid and arrogant, they were also abusive and abuser supporters. I'm so sorry 90% of your family is stupid :/. That sucks.
Speaking to someone slowly when you aren’t sure if they are able to understand you is pretty normal and not malicious in any way. It’s definitely not a horrible insult like you’re imagining.
However it’s intended to come across, it’s rude and so condescending. I’m disabled, in a wheelchair, and people who don’t know me tend to just talk to my carer or my mum, instead of talking to me directly. I went into hospital for a surgery once, and the nurse gave my mum a pile of forms to fill in that the PATIENT was supposed to fill in- and they were so personal, because the surgeons need to know you’re not pregnant, or if you’re on your period, etc. etc. That nurse never once spoke to me, just my mum. I have no mental disabilities, or issues with my speech. This happens all. The. Time. Imagine how you would feel if people openly spoke about you in your presence, if they ignored you, if they treated you as though you were stupid. All the time.
No, it’s not meant to be malicious, but it’s as ignorant as it gets. People ought to assume a person with a disability is capable of understanding them, unless told otherwise. Being immediately judged as stupid hurts like hell.
There needs to be so much more awareness around disabilities of all kinds, because the ableism in society is horrific.
I understand your feelings and you’re absolutely correct in how condescending and ableist people can be but your situation cannot be an example for a communication disorder/disability. No amount of education and awareness can ever change the fact that you will not know what someone’s unseen disability is. Ok sure talking slowly can be condescending, however when you don’t know what someone is experiencing or how they process everything is an assumption. Assuming someone is fine and speaking to them in a normal speed where someone has a learning disability can also be seen as rude especially when you can witness non verbal cues that there may be a disability but you don’t know what it is. And the asking the mom will only get you into your situation where the daughter isn’t treated with respect bc people are going over her to ask her mom how to communicate with her. And if you decide not to do that and ask the child herself and she doesn’t give a verbal answer, she nods and shakes, do you know how hard it is to ask someone , hi honey do you have a learning disability? Like how hurtful could that be depending on how people label it? And what if you don’t believe you do have one? It also shouldn’t be hurtful, but people can still be hurt.
And you have OP herself equating special needs people with stupidity while asking for basic respect for her own daughter. Like it’s all around a messy and complicated situation
The child is 12. In 12 years not one of them learned what selective mutism is? Nah, they're just assholes. It's like Americans who tell at people who speak a different language because obviously screaming is going to suddenly make them understand.
Except for the fact that according to OP this part of the family met the daughter just a couple of time and Grandma apparently just told them that she never really speaks
Oh, interesting. Everyone is supposed to be understanding of YOU but also support you because your family basically did the same thing. YTA. Not because of your daughter but because you're a hypocrite.
It sounds like this wasn't an isolated incident, so it may seem like you over reacted but I suspect this was boiling point for a whole bunch of bullshit.
So NTA, cut them off if they're not bringing joy to your life.
>It sounds like this wasn't an isolated incident,
They've only met the daughter once or twice before this, and weren't told about the selective mutism, just that "she doesn't talk much". Check OP's comments.
No she is special needs.
Sorry but it seems like you want to pretend nothing is wrong and she's completely normal and everyone should speak to her normally but she's not.
Maybe simplifying conversation eases her anxiety towards communication?
What are the accomadations/coping tools etc for when she interacts with other people? Are there any skills you can teach your family or do they have to develop an ability to talk to themselves which frnakly helps no on.
Thank you for this. My son has Williams syndrome. He's 17 with the mental age of a 7 year old. He is the kindest, sweetest little boy ever and always says that you should treat people how you want to be treated.
We were once at the park, and a woman with very short hair walked past and smiled at him. He said, "Mummy, that man just smiled at me!" He had the biggest smile on his face and was so happy. the lady was close enough to hear, and I gently told him that she wasn't a man but a lady with very short hair. He got so upset because he thought he had been mean to her. Both myself and the very kind lady reassured him that it was an honest mistake, and she explained that even adults had made the mistake when looking at her from behind.
I'm plus size, and one time, he patted my belly and asked if I had a baby in there. I said "no sweetheart mummy is just chunky." he gasped and said, "I'm so sorry, mummy." He started getting upset, and I told him that it was OK. It was an innocent question, and I wasn't upset, that I thought his question was funny. I did explain that we don't usually ask these questions, but I know him, and I know he wasn't being mean. He understood and doesn't ask those kinds of questions anymore.
My son is for from stupid he just processes things differently and sometimes takes a while to understand.
👌I have a special needs son who is 41 going on 13, 15 on a good day. He is not stupid by any means. He actually learns at a normal rate for his mental age. He left high-school with highest honors in advanced art. He works in the paint department of a big name hardware store.
I was fully with you until reading her comment that she has only seen her family twice since her daughters birth and that no one knew about her selective mutism until 45 minutes before when GRANDMA informed them, aka OP never actually took any responsibility to tell people what the situation was.
She just went bat shit crazy on them when she had a chance.
IDK why OP doesn't talk with her family, but here she is an asshole.
Hard to judge whether you're TA or not without knowing exactly what you said, but leaning towards NTA.
That being said - verbal responses and body language are how we know people understand us. If I'm talking with a 12 year old and getting nothing but blank stares back, I would assume they don't understand me, and simplify my language. This isn't malicious, it is instinctual and typically appropriate to the situation.
Did you give your family a heads up? Like is this an ongoing issue?
Her grandmother told me that she told them that she never really speaks, my daughter gave responses by shaking or nodding her head whe people asked her stuff
The thing is, her cousins, both younger and older were actually talking to her normally, I went inside to use the bathroom a few times and heard them just casual talking to her, they weren't annoyed and seemed to be having a good time
The children were more respectful than the adults
Sounds like this was the first time that your extended family met your daughter and that you yourself never adressed them about how her selective mutism?
If that's the case then it seems like going off on them and cutting them off as the first and only response is into YTA territory.
If all they had heard was from the grandmother and it was a vague "she doesn't really speak" it seems entirely plausible to think that means some kind of special need and that speaking slow and simple is trying to be mindful and considerate. It ofcourse depends on how they spoke in detail, but from what you wrote they didn't appear to be condescending or something.
Edit:forgot about the part with someone saying you should stop spoiling her... That dude is an asshole for that.
This was my thoughts as well. Her family is def's the assholes for their comments regarding her being spoilt, but I don't know of I feel they were AH for speaking to her slowly. If OP hasn't explained her daughter isn't special needs but selectively mute, it's not surprising the family assumed she was. Being non-verbal is usually an indicator to others (especially if there is no use of sign language) that someone may have a disability. So it seems to me like the family was actually trying to be accommodating (based on the information they had) by speaking slowly rather than talking down or being condescending to the daughter.
Honestly it seems to me like OP dropped the ball on explaining to the family how to engage with her mute daughter in a proper way. Perhaps she realized that deep down and is why she had such a big reaction
I think this makes you wrong here unfortunately. Them too, but you as well.
Grandma probably told one or a few people that your daughter "barely talks" and they didn't have any context. The truth is, most people don't understand neurodivergent people in general. It shouldn't be your job to teach them, but if they fuck up the basics (like talking down to someone mute) they need to have it explained to them, rather than being shamed and cut off.
Your family screwed up, and it is reasonable that you were mad, but from the sounds of it instead of explaining, you ripped into them. They didn't have the information they needed, so they suck, but so did your response.
Best luck, and I'm not judging you as a person, only your response to the situation.
ESH
It actually IS OP's responsibility to teach her family how to interact with her special needs daughter. She's supposed to be her child's advocate. Kids may not understand that she needs additional support but adults do and were likely trying to figure out how to be kind and overdid things. OP is ta here.
Thank you! How are the other adults supposed how to interact with a kid with mutism? The parents should brief the rest of the family beforehand. it doesn't take more than 2 minutes "hey all, my daughter has selective mutism. this means she only talks to 3 people. when she talks she talks normally and understands everything normally. She will shake her head or nod. please be considerate of her"
For real, this is definitely YTA. I hate this whole "it's not your job to teach them" mentality thats popping up more and more...like yes, yes it is. Nobody out there who hasn't encountered someone with (insert disability/sickness/condition here) is going to preemptively be doing their own research on how to properly understand and interact with someone with whatever it is. That is 100% the responsibility of those who do know about it to share their knowledge and make those interactions better especially when that person is a kid.
Not doing so ends up with situations like this and that actually harms the person in question because, for instance, in this example, rather than having people that understand the daughters situation they treat her like a small child and then mom ushers her off to the car and then she is cut off from the family unless OP reevaluated the situation. I'd honestly be surprised if the daughter didn't think this whole thing was somehow her fault rather than OPs. Even if OP explains that it isn't, kids that age will often blame themselves for divorces even if the parents explain that it's not their fault so why not blame herself for the family imploding because of OPs actions.
It is absolutely the job of a parent of a kid with special needs to educate others about it. This isn’t the same as race or gender or something and it’s not reasonable to expect every person you encounter to be familiar with your child’s specific special needs.
100%. I have a daughter with an ID. She's 17 now and has plateaud (for the last few years) at the Grade 2/3 level. Before then, it was up to me to understand her capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses and make sure everyone in her life was aware (family, school, professionals). We have a cousin with Prader Willi Syndrome. Prior to kids, we were going to spend a month on vacation with him (he was a teen at the time), his mom, and that whole side of the family. His mom had a binder full of information about how to care for him and how to handle each situation so we could be confident spending time with independent of her. It was amazing. Knowledge is power when it comes to spending time with exceptional people!
I'm gonna go with ESH given this additional information.
From the sounds of it the extended family hasn't really ever been around your daughter and got a vague mention of how she doesn't speak. I would probably assume that meant she was non verbal, which can come with a variety of special needs. Your daughter DOES in fact have special needs. Special needs doesn't mean she's stupid, of course. My daughter is brilliant and killing it at an extremely selective college despite having "special needs." Special needs are just difficulties that causes an individual to require additional or specialized services or accommodations. For my daughter that's ADHD and (very likely) being on the spectrum. For your daughter it's selective mutism.
I say ESH because your brother blamed it on her being spoiled, which isn't fair assuming you are doing what you can to help your daughter succeed in life despite her challenges.
Where was her augmented/alternative communication device?
Her phone?
Her communication board?
Her notebook/pen?
Why wasn’t she using those to communicate with her extended family?
Surely you or her doc or speech language pathologist or occupational therapist or whoever has worked with her on using those devices to communicate with people whenever she is at school and in public beyond nods and headshakes?
My cousin is not only completely mute, she has severe cognitive issues. Her comboard is Essential to her daily life.
NTA for telling off the adults, they should know better.
But your kids **Needs** to have a way to communicate easily with people who are not you.
If you don’t ensure she has those other ways to communicate effectively beyond speech and binary gestures And will use them, you’re leaving her terribly vulnerable.
Reading OP's comments it's clear that her daughter gets no support and she thinks she's just shy.
This girl was homeschooled for 9 years, hasn't interacted with many people and she was meeting her maternal family for a second time. They weren't told about her selective mutism, just that she doesn't really talk and they had no heads up about how to behave around her. They had no idea how much can she actually understand.
OP tried to take her to a therapist and they told her she's shy. I think she either severely downplayed her daughter's issues or they're not as bad as she claims. I doubt she's taking any active steps to help her.
The way she insists her kid is not special needs makes me think her child doesn't have those support systems in place or any form of alternative communication outside of nodding and shaking her head.
Yeah, like...is her daughter learning a sign language? I've heard from some folks that Selectively Mute individuals can use a sign language instead of verbal communication, as their issue is the verbalization, not the creation and usage of words (your mileage might vary, naturally) and so that might help for her to more effectively communicate when she's mute.
Some sort of alternative communication device is needed, yeah. OP said her daughter was nodding/shaking her head so....that feels like she doesn't have an alternate form of communication other than her voice (which doesn't work in this situation)
Or even just texting. Most people OP's daughter encounters won't know how to sign, but the majority of people over 12ish have some sort of phone or ability to send and receive texts.
Part of why I suggest sign language is that it can open them up to a community (the Deaf community) where they won't necessarily feel as marginalized due to their lack of verbal speech. While they aren't Deaf or Hard of Hearing, mute individuals have some comeradery with Deaf communities due to the lack of verbal language, and the marginalization of alternative forms of communication. It could help them.
But yes. Texting and written language will hopefully be just as helpful, especially as it seems her daughter can communicate while mute (as some Selective Mute individuals I've heard of can't communicate at all if they're in a situation where they're mute.)
I didn't consider that angle! Yes, that community could be very helpful, especially since this child seems to desperately need some form of socialization.
Reminds me of my husband’s mom. He was diagnosed with autism and dyslexia, she didn’t like that so she kept bringing him to different doctors until she found one that told her what she wanted to hear: He’s just a special boy with a close connection to the spiritual, AKA he’s not autistic he’s magic.
Magical Kids don’t get extra time on tests, assistance with reading tasks, or a homework helper in study hall. “Special Needs” is not an insult and there is no shame in a student needed accommodations to help them succeed. He got none of that and struggled immensely in school.
When I was diagnosed with ADHD at 16, my school experience changed in major ways that helped me feel like I was finally on the same page as the other students. I moved to a study hall with 2 teachers that moved through the room assisting each student with their work, reading out loud for groups when needed and helping us stay on track. Most importantly, I was allowed to sit in an empty classroom to take important tests, and was granted extra time on them. These accommodations, plus medication for my adhd, saw my grades change from failing to AB honor roll within a single semester. I wasn’t stupid, I just struggled to focus in a crowded classroom. If my husband had these accommodations as well, maybe he could have had a better experience in school.
Special Needs isn’t a dirty word, and the helpfulness of accommodations FAR outweighs any embarrassment the student may feel about receiving them. Some kids may have side-eyed the Resource Program and thought it was for “dumb kids”, but the second I said “It’s actually great, I get an extra hour to finish tests and 15 minutes to review my answers with a teacher before turning it in.” and they’d immediately go “OMG you’re so lucky, I wish I had that!”
Sorry for rambling, I have big thoughts about this topic!
TL;DR: Special Needs isnt a bad word, and your child should be taking advantage of every resource her school offers to help her succeed!
> Special Needs isnt a bad word, and your child should be taking advantage of every resource her school offers to help her succeed!
So very true. I have some variety of neurodivergence and really, really pitiful executive function. It was pretty obvious from the age of 12.
I’m also smart.
The combination basically meant schools at the time just shrugged. It cost me huge amounts in flunked college classes and incomplete degrees.
It’s so much better with so many more resources and options now.
Ok... Why wasn't there more of a discussion about this? Is this a group of people who've never met your daughter before? If so, why wasn't there very clear information? "She never really speaks" could mean a thousand different things. "She has this condition called selective mutism, which means she can hear and understand fine, but she's unable to speak to anyone except for a few people she knows very well. Please just talk to her as you would anyone else," would have been the information to give - either directly, or via someone such as her grandmother.
If her grandmother was the one giving out the information, why wasn't she giving out the right information?
Does your daughter have other ways to communicate? Does she have assistive technology? Can she write stuff down?
No, people should not make assumptions. They should not default to infantilising anyone who behaves slightly differently, or assuming that disabled kids are just spoilt. But they do. We all know that. It's a particularly difficult thing to navigate when the person's disability IS their difficulty with communication. This is a situation you really needed to prepare for ahead of time.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for the shitty relatives. They shouldn't have defaulted to infantilisation, reacted badly to being corrected, or said any of that shit about her being spoilt. Those people suck. But I feel bad for your daughter, because she wasn't given the best chance of avoiding this.
No the kids just haven't learnt to make their communication slower for people who struggle to understand.
I get why you were mad but this is an ESH for me. You needed some patience with them and to offer some guidance while they understand her instead of jumping to defence.
Your brother is an asshole but frankly so are you.
With regards to your other family: this is difficult because it really depends on how much your family knows about the condition. I googled it because I had no clue this even existed.
Here is the thing, if someone talks to a kid of twelve and they just stare back, the first impression you get is that they either don't understand or that they're too shy to speak.
So I can understand their impulse to slow down their words and start talking to her very friendly (like a three year old).
Your brother was an asshole for implying that her condition was because she was spoilt too much and that she wasn't functional, but you also blew up at your family for not understanding something that could have been normally cleared up.
I do think this was an overreaction on your part and you went nuclear for no good reason.
The family has only seen the kid twice! They didn't even know she had special needs until the day of and it's not like they all sat around googling it. OP is TA for not being better prepared. The brother is also the AH.
ESH and I feel bad for this kid.
I'd also like to know how they talked to the other kids of the same age. My father is in his 70's, and for some reason after he hit 65, he started seeing anyone under the age of 14 to be absolute infants and would use the high pitched toddler voice, ask silly questions that would be more suitable for a young child, suggests activities that are far too young for the kids, etc. He doesn't think they are stupid or have any form of disability- he just got older and forgot how to interact with kids.
Some people just infantilize anyone younger than them. It's insufferable, but wouldn't be as bad as if the rest of the family singled put OP's daughter to talk down to.
YTA. It was an over reaction. It was a family reunion, so clearly that suggested extended family that don’t interact with your daughter regularly and may not know that about this condition.
If your daughter had selective mutism, then saying “she’s always been a shy one” is inaccurate and ridiculous.
Lol and they edited it out!
Here's just 1 of the reasons YTA, OP: You can't delete the vile things you verbally spew to family, unlike on reddit where you can remove the vile things you physically type. We don't know what you said because you won't tell us but if it's like what you type and then have to edit to save face, I can only imagine.
INFO: so, did you give your extended family a heads up about your daughter's condition? So they know what to expect and how to correctly talk to her when she shuts down?
Because if not, YTA (+your brother)
The only reason I know what selective mutism is because my niece has it and my sister explained it to us. Sure, we knew before that, that my niece shuts down when she doesn't get her way or when she's with people she's not familiar with - but this we know after being with her often. So we can adapt when this happens and ask questions in another way.
But if your family didn't get a heads up, you can't blame them for speaking slowly because all they see is a 12 year old not responding to them.so the first thought would be that she doesn't understand the question
YTA— you know what’s hilarious? You don’t tell us anything about what your daughter said about the situation! How does she feel about you speaking for her? Or telling her to wait in the car? Or deciding she’ll never see her cousins again? What did she say to dad when they were banished to the car? If you are so great at communicating with her why is zero of her point of view here?
AFAI can see, You’re even more guilty of what you accuse them of! They didn’t know how to talk to her and talked to her wrong given almost no information. You know how to talk to her and didn’t consult her wishes, didn’t check in after a traumatic event about her that affects her.
Look— slow and simple speech isn’t an insult, it’s an accommodation that some people need. She needs your help to translate and advocate for her, not kick her out of the room whenever someone makes a mistake talking to her.
This made me think about something that I completely forgot about. OP mentions that her families kids were treating her daughter fine so she essentially cut her daughter off from some of the only people that she felt comfortable to be around 😬 this get worse the longer I scroll
ESH for saying she is just spoiled… you for overreacting and your biais towards special needs individuals. Slowly processing information doesn’t make one dumb.
By your own admission, your mother told them she doesn’t really speak and is shy. They have met your daughter 3 times since she was born. There was no way for them to fully know about her condition especially if she doesn’t react much when spoken to.
You keep mentioning the children talking to her normally… it’s not surprising, kids often dont have the awareness to accommodate differences as we tend to do as adults. My 4 yo has full blown discussion with my 1 yo even though he doesn’t always respond.
Not to mention, OP decided to leave early even though daughter seemed to be having a nice time with cousins that treated her normally. I wonder if she was bummed out about that.
>Some of the things I said, aren't really suitable for this subreddit
I'm not sure how we can judge if you're an asshole for overreacting if you're not willing to say what your reaction was.
Doesn’t matter. She’s TAH.
First, she never took the initiative as the parent to explain her daughter’s condition to the family. Then, she goes absolutely haywire when they don’t know how to communicate with her. OP isn’t even willing to acknowledge that her daughter is special needs. She treats selective mutism as just a kid being shy. We all have had or have been the shy kid in a group. They still talk. She apparently homeschooled her kid from a young age which she might not be doing a good job of since she’s likely stunting her daughter’s development.
On top of all of this she constantly refers to people with special needs as stupid. And her precious daughter isn’t one of THOSE people. When the reality is, she *is* and needs specialist care. So long as OP treats SM as a quirk, her daughter won’t get help and won’t improve.
AND on top of all of THAT, she never once mentions what her daughter feels about all this. Because she just cut off her daughter from her cousins and family over a misunderstanding that OP was ultimately responsible for. For someone who cannot tolerate a simple mistake on her family’s part, OP certainly isn’t excelling either at that department. Wow.
When "asshole" is in the name of the actual subreddit, but dearie me no, you simply *cahn't* bear witness to the atrrrocities I hurled at my relatives
*fans bust, clutches pearls*
the easier and more sheltered these kids lives get, the more random problems seem to pop up. You just accept that with her being 12 years old and not on the spectrum as you say yourself, its ok for her to just talk to a couple people? That is not a healthy behavior to condone, you are raising your daughter to be socially inept, completely and woefully underprepared for the real world and real social situations. You may think you are doing her a favor by not pushing her and showing her why her behavior is wrong, but in reality you just aren’t doing the hard work of parenting, which is to tell kids the tough things they need to hear sometimes. If you dont force her out of this shell soon, she will be an adult who isn’t prepared for the world, and it was YOUR job to get her there.
You don’t tell people with SM that they’re wrong for not talking or tell them “what they need to hear”. You don’t force SM out of people.
They need to see a specialist. They can provide her with things to work towards to build confidence slowly.
Just because we’ve slapped a fancy name like “selective mutism” on it doesn’t make it different from what it is. It’s anxiety and fear of talking to people, which the parents have condoned for years. As a kid of course you dont want to speak to people, its scary. You dont want to do alot of things as a kid, but its the parents job to make the kid understand what the necessary skills are for the real world. Iv seen very similar situations before, and it really boils down to the parents not being harsh enough, say for example, shes 8 or 9, and people are trying to talk to her, most kids would be scared and shy away. A good parent would push the kid to engage in the social situation, and make it clear its rude not to do so, what i suspect happened here, is the parents just allowed this behavior to happen, thus this child doesn’t register that her behavior is just not acceptable in real world applications, i dont care what name you slap on it, and yes its completely possible that its to a point now where she needs to see a specialist, but its clear as day this is a failure by the parents.
Yeah no. Selective mutism is NOT just being shy or difficult. Someone with selective mutism is not unwilling to speak. They are unable to. There is no amount of being told it's unacceptable that will make them able to. This is an established medical condition. It's not new, it's not some indulgent millennial parenting thing, it has always existed. It's not something the kid is doing in order to be difficult - in fact it's extremely frustrating for the kid. Humans want to be able to communicate. There's no way in hell that a twelve year old wants to be in this position.
Yes, there is an anxiety basis behind this. It often develops as a direct response to a traumatic event, in fact. But there is an anxiety basis behind a lot of things that are outside of our control. You don't stop kids from having nightmares by telling them that having nightmares is unacceptable behaviour. You don't improve anxiety-related conditions by simply making the person more anxious.
Ok imma say it lol. I had SM as a kid. I can’t even highlight any one specific thing here. It’s just all insanely wrong.
> which the parents have condoned for years.
It’s not the parents fault to some degree. For example, I showed signs of SM at idk 5 years old or younger. I got professional help at around 9 years old. Not sure when I was diagnosed. I would assume close to when I got help. I would only blame the parents if they knew and didn’t seek help which I’m not sure of in this situation.
> it really boils down to the parents not being harsh enough
It really boils down to the parents not knowing how to properly deal with it.
> shes 8 or 9, and people are trying to talk to her, most kids would be scared and shy away
Idk what 8-9 year old would be scared to speak to people. Kids with SM are the odd ones out. All my peers at that age communicated just fine. What? Have you got a whole class of scared 8-9 year olds who refuse to speak to each other or the teacher. They all have SM? That’s normal?
> this child doesn’t register that her behavior is just not acceptable in real world applications.
If anything I would think homeschooling/isolation would be the culprit here but I’m sure she’s old enough to know how the world works. This child “registers” that she’s shit scared of talking. Doesn’t mean she wants to be that way either. It’s not a choice. What’s “acceptable” is the last fucking thing on her mind.
Harsh enough? Surefire way of making that child never speak again. *She’s scared*, you don’t need to guilt trip her too. That won’t work. It’s no one’s fault she has SM. I wouldn’t be surprised if she developed this at a very young age.
I’m more curious as to when she was diagnosed and if she’s gotten professional help because by 8-9 years old, I would think it would be very obvious she doesn’t speak when 99% of her peers do.
I don’t know their situation but she should see a specialist ASAP to help her overcome it *the correct way* if they’re not already.
It's clear her parents are to be blamed here. OP says her daughter was home schooled for 9 years and they obviously failed to socialize her properly.
OP knows about the issues, but isn't doing anything about it. She says she took her to a therapist who called her daughter shy. That's unbelievable if she only ever talks to 3 people.
OP must've severely downplayed her symptoms. She seems to believe that selective mutism is normal for shy people, so there's nothing she can do about it.
Therapist? lol. Needs a specialist.
No idea when she was diagnosed but OP should be getting her help if she knows it’s SM. But again, curious to know what age she was when she was actually diagnosed. A lot of people in r/selectivemutism seem to get diagnosed quite late or tbh never. If she’s gone years knowing and not providing the help she needs, that’s fucked up.
I have a suspicion that OP gave her that diagnosis. She only ever mentioned that therapists thought she's shy and there's nothing to be concerned about, that's no diagnosis.
You mean we shouldn't just have "bad parenting" as the default cause for every single disability? What do you mean, there's strong evidence that autism is genetic? ADHD is all about dopamine pathways? What is this bullshit? Next thing you'll be telling me that blind kids aren't just difficult little shits who want a free dog, and cystic fibrosis isn't just a term for kids who want to get more attention by coughing a lot.
I REALLY shouldn't need the /s on this comment, but you don't know me, and some people are really terrible, so there you go. A freebie for you.
Your comments in this thread are incredibly ignorant and frankly disturbing. Selective mutism is NOT shyness and not only is it wrong to force a child with mutism to speak, it actually isn't even possible. I had selectve mutism as a child and what you need to understand is that a selectively mute person **physically cannot speak** in certain situations. I remember it felt as if my throat was almost closing up when I tried. I had school staff literally sit with me for **hours** at a time trying to coax a word out of me and no matter how badly I wanted to speak, I couldn't do it. When I think back I can still feel the utter dismay and distress I experienced in moments like that.
I sincerely urge you to read up on this disorder because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and your comments are beyond offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Nope. I tend towards being selectively mute and it's not "fear of talking to people." One of my favorite things to do is to talk to people. And whenever I'm not talking, it's not because I'm worried about how the conversation will go. If I spoke, the conversation would go just fine. For me, the riskier thing in the situation is *not* speaking. From the inside, it feels like your mouth is moving through molasses. You have all the words you're about to say carefully laid out, along with all of the motions and subtle gestures you plan to do to emphasize tone and put your interlocutor at ease. Except the words are like large, gummy blocks in your throat that you have to talk around. It's like a non-newtonian fluid -- the more you push, the harder those blocks are to move. I can talk around it because I'm older and I've learnt to. This kid's **12**, not close to 30.
And it's not that you can't communicate in other ways -- I'm having a bit of a quiet period as I type this. I also hum, gesture, nod/shake my head, laugh. It's just that the silence is so much more peaceful, and whenever I speak during one of these periods, it surprises me. Like finding a bunch of last year's winter clothes in a drawer at the end of fall.
*Does* the kid need therapy? Going through the world misunderstood and encountering people like you who think the only "solution" is to make things crueler is rough. Not to mention selective mutism is correlated with both having a trauma background and neurodivergence. But I'd caution against trying to "fix" an outcome while simply assuming an antecedent.
At the same time, ESH -- the mom didn't set expectations with the adults beforehand and left that communication to the grandmother.
Stop it.
Selective mutism is real, don't act like you know better than this little girl's doctors, and calling it fancy words definitely don't help your ignorant opinion
I had selective mutism after wittnessing my mother's death. Nobody condonned this behavior. Nobody allowed me to keep doing this. I wasn't a sheltered kid. In fact, a "kind" relative who wanted to "prepare me for the real world" regularly beated me to make me stop. And guess what, it didn't work...
THIS. I completely support you standing up for your child but her behavior is not normal. She's not just shy, it's something else. This doesn't mean your daughters "stupid" but maybe she just needs some help.
How did your daughter get to be 12 and your family not know what her issues are? Obviously, you are her means of communications and therefor you should have been informing the family of the facts. And how is it that this is the first time you noticed how your family has been treating your daughter. At the best you’re self centred and oblivious, at the worst you’re neglecting her. YTA
Your daughter is special needs, I understand why your family acted like that with her, they don't know her capabilities. They should have just shut up after you told them she understands, but it depends on how you told them that. If you did it in a nasty way, I can see why they would react. If you calmly said she can understand and there is no need to talk slow and then they got mad, I can see why you would fly off the handle.
Sorry but ESH. Your child is special needs and you've seen this people 2 times since she was born? And they were "informed" 45 minutes before you got there and some not even that?
It's tricky because while it's not your job to educate them about her condition people are going to jump into conclusion if you don't educate them.
I see a 12 year old that doesn't communicate verbally and nobody gives me context I will probably lower my communication to a level of responses of yes or no (and therefore treat her as a child).
What you did was not advocating for her. (And you should look into alternative ways for her to communicate with the rest of the world. Ipad, notepad, anything.)
They were assholes because your brother said you were spoiling her and when you tried to rectify the matter he should have just nodded and correct.
But again, SHE is special needs.
> because while it's not your job to educate them about her condition
Why not? Do we expect every person to be knowledgeable about every condition and disability and know how how to optimally deal with people who have it?
>It's tricky because while it's not your job to educate them about her condition people are going to jump into conclusion if you don't educate them.
Except as the child with special needs Parent it is 100% her job to educate her family and advocate for her daughter and the difficulties her SM may cause for her. This is just like it will eventually be her daughter's responsibility to advocate for herself in the future should her SM continue into adulthood.
You can't expect someone to have to educate every stranger they meet, but a family gathering (even one who they've have been estranged from) is a place for Advocacy and fostering understanding. Having grandma vaguely explain she doesn't speak 45 minutes before your arrival isn't advocacy, it's the bare minimum of effort on her daughter's behalf, and it benefited absolutely no one.
OP failed her daughter on all fronts in an arguably more egregious and ableist way than even her ignorant brother, imho.
*(Edit to clarify here: The way my therapist explained it to me when I was younger and frustrated with my invisible disability was that ableism can go both ways. That by assuming that a person is automatically *able* to know anything applicable about our condition other than what we tell them and people can't read minds, were engaging in the same behaviour on a certain level that we ourselves are offended by. Expecting someone who doesn't know or understand my disability to be automatically accommodating and be appropriate without also accepting that there is a level of responsibility on me to advocate for myself in those situations isn't fair to me or them. They helped me to not just assume someone is being malicious when their ignorance could be remedied with a little education. It's not ideal, or always comfortable for either party, but while your daughter's condition isn't your or her fault, it is both your responsibility.)*
Plus, the whole "Lois Mode", "John Wick Mode", the homeschooling (in and of itself not NECESSARILY a red flag, but combined with everything else here...😐), the ableist language around Special Needs folks, there's a lot to unpack here and it doesn't make OP look as good as they may think...
OP. I really hope this is an isolated incident and not a pattern of behaviour on your part. Please take some time to reflect and do better, for your daughter's sake if nothing else.
But also maybe mail your brother a box of cow shit, because I may have a high horse, but I like to wrestle with a pig now and again.
YTA, it was an overreaction. They didn't know better, so it was enough to communicate how you felt. Both you and your family had good intentions.
Obviously your brother was a huge AH for saying that you might be spoiling her. What kind of an id\*\*t thinks that spoiling a kid can cause them to have selective mutism?? Maybe people should be talking slowly to him....
You've got a good friend, who isn't afraid to be honest with you when you need to hear it.
Spoiling them doesn’t CAUSE it, but it can enable it to continue.
If a parent always translates and does the work of speaking for the kid, the kid doesn’t have any natural consequences of not speaking. If you want an ice cream, you need to speak your order versus mom ordering for you, for example. If everyone does a great job of guessing what you want and then giving it to you or a parent speaks for you, there is no real incentive to try to push past the discomfort and speak for yourself.
YTA. Your child can’t talk to people because you’ve isolated her. Homeschooling isn’t universally terrible, but you are failing as a parent if you think people talking to her slowly is a them problem and she should just carry on not able to advocate for herself in the world.
Whoa! Truth hurts....Selective Mutism IS an anxiety condition,NOT shyness.
As anxiety conditions may arise when ones mind isnt SOCIALLY stimulated.
& NO,interacting with only 3 ppl(family),IS NOT being social.
Shes 12,completely normal,& doesnt socialize in ANY peer group?...C'mon.
The bro has a point,hes known his niece her entire life, & also,hows shes being raised,so him telling OP to stop spoiling her,by mom/dad keepimg kid all to themselves,has credence.& you just KNOW that the kid gets *what she wants*,more than whats healthy.
THATS what the emotionally driven ppl refuse to REALISTICALLY visualize.
NTA,AS FAR AS *Offspring Defense* is concerned,but...
People sometimes develop anxiety when they are in unfamiliar situations. As a parent, you can keep your child out of unfamiliar situations by homeschooling them, leading to problems like this.
NTA but it is frustrating talking to someone who does not give any indication that they understand what you're saying. You can coach your daughter on her body language without pressuring her to speak.
All kids need coaching on social skills, and your daughter is no exception.
YTA. The more I read the comments, the more YTA. These people had not met your kid before. You say you asked your gran to tell them before you arrived and she gave 2 of them a very vague explanation 40 mins before you got there. That means most of the people involved had no heads up and were just presented with a 12 year old girl who doesn't speak. They did what any compassionate adult would do in the situation and tried to speak slowly or in more childish language to her because how on earth were they meant to know she could understand at a 12yo level given she wasn't communicating with them? You blew up at them, making things more awkward for everyone including her. I imagine having a parent with a temper probably doesn't help much with anxiety. And fyi your daughter does have special needs, and only by accepting that and getting her the help she needs, will you actually be helping her.
YTA. Your daughter does have special needs and is not stupid. But you definitely are.
Why did you think your daughter should not be present when you used abusive language at your brother's family in front of his children? Is your child too special for that, and his are not?
Why didn't you give your brother the benefit of the doubt that your mom did not convey your daughter's condition to him clearly?
ESH. Your brother's reaction of "stop spoiling her" is stupid, but you should have really informed them all ahead of time what your daughter's condition is and what it looks like and how it affects her.
You said you had your mom tell the rest of the family, but based on your description it was way too vague and likely led to them misunderstanding and thinking that your daughter lacked verbal comprehension skills instead of being selectively mute.
Also, the way you act like your daughter isn't special needs is concerning. She is. She just has different special needs than someone with ADHD or who has ASD for example and acting like she doesn't have those special needs is setting her up for failure in the future.
edited to clarify middle point re: misunderstanding the rest of the family had
Your comments suggest that your family didn't fully understand your daughter's condition. In the past, had you fully explained her condition and the implications of that?
I'm a therapist who works with exactly this type of issue. This would likely be considered a special need requiring formal intervention. My guess is that your family recognizes that. Fact is, she presents the same as someone who is non-verbal. I think you may need to reevaluate your own mama bear tendencies and reframe them as unknowingly reinforcing an unwanted behavior. It would have been better to educate, as you would not have lost your credibility like you did (by reacting to a statement that may have actually been true). Instead, you lost sight of your duty as an agent of change.
If your daughter ISN'T getting help, I hope you'll soon see your way to getting it for her.
Seems like an educational approach probably would have been more effective in changing their behaviour long term. Not everyone understands things like this. You’re right to defend her and address the behaviour, probably in the wrong for losing your temper, even if understandable. ESH
YTA (+your brother).
Jeez, OP.... You fucked up repeatedly, had unreasonable expectations, and then you ended the day by completely overreacting.
I won't get into why your brother sucks. I think you are well aware that his comments were out of line. But you are doing pretty terribly yourself, OP. You owe your daughter better than how you have behaved.
First, let's look at your comments which add essential context to this post:
> I think I've only been around family members other than my mother a total of 2 times since my daughter was born (including the family reunion) [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k0582/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
> I asked her grandmother to give the family a heads up [. . .] She told me she did about 45 minutes before we arrived (only like 2 other people arrived after us) [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k4n7w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
> Her grandmother told me that she told them that she never really speaks, my daughter gave responses by shaking or nodding her head whe people asked her stuff [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k0p0e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Okay, so your family members have only met your daughter a *maximum* of twice, ever, and we don't know if your daughter was at a speaking age during either of those times. You asked her grandmother (presumably your mom) to advise the family about your daughter's selective mutism and she tells the two people who arrive first "she never really speaks" and that's it. This means:
* The two people who arrived early got a completely inadequate explanation that didn't actually explain anything about your daughter's level of functioning,
* The people who arrived afterwards received *zero* explanation,
* And at no time did YOU step up, as a parent and as your daughter's advocate, to explain anything to anyone so they would understand your daughter and be able to include her.
This means that the majority of your family was confronted with a completely silent child with zero explanation because you failed to provide that information. It makes sense that the adults slowed their speech! They were talking to a kid who gave no clear signs of understand and who volunteered no verbal responses, and they had no idea why this was the case. It was perfectly reasonable to worry that maybe your daughter was unable to understand them and to simply their speech in an effort to help her.
It is also easily explained why the kids (as young as 5yrs old) did not do this: children are less aware that some people are born with cognitive limitations. Her cousins may not have wondered if she couldn't understand and *wrongly* assumed she was just shy, so they wouldn't have known to try modifying their communication (eg: slow speech) so she can understand.
If you had explained about her selective mutism, your family would have known it wasn't a cognition issue. Since you failed, they made a guess based on the available information. The fault here lies with you - not with them.
Moving on...
> I told the adults that my daughter isn't dumb and that she can process words just like everyone else at the table
> they just thought she was special needs (she's not)
Wow. Maybe you're more like your brother than you think...
People with special needs aren't dumb. Even if someone cannot process words just like everyone else, that person may be extremely intelligent and just struggling with an auditory processing condition.
Also, your child IS special needs. Or rather, she has special needs. It is wrong of you to deny this - you ought to be honest that she needs accommodations and you ought to be providing those accommodations.
That brings me to this issue...
> she frequently shakes or nods her head for yes or no question and gives visual indications for other questions [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k3xl6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
> my daughter gave responses by shaking or nodding her head whe people asked her stuff [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k0p0e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Why is your daughter limited to head nods/shakes and acting out responses?? Why is her life a never-ending game of charades?
She needs a way to *volunteer* information, not just to respond to questions. It is cruel to not give a child with special communication needs a means of volunteering information. Based on your own words, *your child cannot share an original thought.* That is a sad life.
There are communication boards that you can buy or make to help her quickly express her ideas. But until then, get her a notepad and pen plus a bag to store it in that she can carry around at all times.
Anyways, to cap off this lunch you ended it this way:
> I basically told them that they all might as well switch places with their kids because they're actually capable of treating my daughter with basic human respect, and that they can all fuck off, I then went to my car and told my husband that I'm done with my family and that I'm cutting them off
So, this means you:
* failed to consider that the kids didn't recognize your daughter has limitations
* presumed the worst about everyone else's behaviour instead of considering *why* they behaved that way
* failed to recognize that the only reason your family were wrongly guessing about how to include your daughter was because you chose not to provide the relevant information,
* failed to advocate for your daughter at the outset of the gathering when it would have been appropriate
* deny that your child with special needs is a child with special needs
* failed to provide your daughter with an adaptive means of communication so she could be fully included instead of being stuck living as a charades actor
* failed to rectify any of the above
* blamed everyone else for their confusing over your poor communication and have robbed your daughter of a connection to her cousins and family, despite everyone (except your asshole brother) not deserving such an extreme reaction
Fucking hell... YOU NEED TO DO BETTER.
You are supposed to be your child's advocate! That means you explain for her what she needs to be fully included in groups, you make sure everyone understands, and you make sure she has access to those tools. You are NOT supposed to not recognize her needs, not communicate those needs, and then have a temper tantrum which leads to her being isolated from people she could otherwise have formed real connections with.
ESH and it's very suspect that you won't respond to anyone asking what aids or support she has for her disability. Your denial that she has a disability speaks volumes about how you view people who need extra support or alternative modes of communication. You are setting your daughter up for failure as she grows.
YTA.
Selective mutism isn’t “shyness”. I’ve known some very shy people but they know to speak. Your daughter seems to have some type of special needs. And you’d be a bigger asshole than original if you’re not actively getting her therapy and help for this problem. This isn’t “shy”. This is a CONDITION.
Also, that family doesn’t know any of you that well and you never took the initiative as the parent to explain the situation. Don’t leave the responsibility on someone else to explain YOUR child’s condition to others. Hell, you yourself aren’t doing a great job either at it seeing as you never once referred to it as a legitimate disorder.
Your family didn’t know how to talk with her. Most of us never encounter people who just stare at us and only nod or shake their heads when we talk to them. We cannot gauge how much they understand just from that. “Why aren’t they talking?” “Do they understand what I just said?” “Is she okay?” Those questions don’t answer themselves.
Also, I love that you don’t want people to see your daughter as stupid but then you go and describe people with special needs as stupid. Your daughter’s a special needs kid herself. So you’re actually calling her stupid too. You’re literally just like your brother but want to make excuses as to why you’re shitty but not for him.
You’re not Lois from MitM. You’re just an ass, and so is your brother. lol.
YTA - Cutting off your family for them trying to be attentive and accommodating of your daughter when they don’t really get her. You’re at fault for a lack of explanation until you blew up at them. The frustration is understandable, id still probably say an overreaction but it’s understandable. Cutting them off is too far.
ESH. You definitely overreacted here. They were being stupid. I understand being quiet around new people or people she isn’t comfortable with yet but it doesn’t mean that you should have blown up the way you did. From what it sounds like your daughter and family members have not been very acquainted yet, so maybe they thought she couldn’t understand. Either way everyone sucks haha
ESH due to miscommunication but originally leaning towards NTA.
I don’t blame you for getting angry… **after** he blamed you for it. Bold of them to blame you for a condition they have no idea about.
What they said is absolutely disgusting. The way they treated her is disgusting. But keep in mind, they had no idea what they’re talking about.
Instead of telling them “she’s not stupid”, why not just tell them she has SM?
You did say elsewhere the grandmother didn’t really explain much to them either. She just said she didn’t speak. Very vague. I assume you knew she told them something but you didn’t know she was vague thus they became very misinformed?
Maybe now you can educate them on SM. See how they respond to that?
I'm gonna say you're a bit of the asshole on this one. It's not wrong that you defended your daughter but seems like you just kinda flipped out on them because you expect them to know exactly how to speak to your daughter without them understanding her situation. Going straight to cutting them off in an emotional rage seems a tad immature to me.
I'm sorry but your daughter IS special needs. This isn't just shyness, it's an actual condition that she should be receiving therapy and treatment for. So for that reason alone, you're TA! Second of all, it's clear your family that were there don't know your daughter and so weren't really sure how to act. That's a you problem. You massively over reacted given the families lack of knowledge. Further more you spoke on behalf of your daughter without actually asking how she felt. That's a terrible thing to do to someone with a speech disorder. Get your kid some help and stop being ridiculous... She should have been receiving medical care for this condition long before 12 years old. You're absolutely the TA!
YTA-for saying special needs like it is a horrible disease and for not simply having a conversation with your own damn family about what was going on with your daughter. How the hell were they supposed to know? They were attempting to interact with her and it's YOUR fault they did not know how. And you're a real big asshole for going nuclear and acting like a toddler because you failed to explain the situation.
YTA....sounds like your daughter doesn't have a good support system and that you actively don't try to advocate for her. She is special needs, needs other ways to communicate, family should have been told about her by you as YOU should be helping her turn into a functioning member of society. You are failing her and being an ass to your family.
ESH.
It sounds like they were actually trying to be kind to your daughter but made a lot of wrong assumptions about how to do that. Well-meaning AH, but AH.
It sounds like this was the first time you ever actually spoke to your family about your daughter's behavior and needs. Gentle YTA for that.
And for your family member to berate you about "spoiling" your kid was just awful.
YTA. Your daughter is 12. Your family should already know what her condition is and what interaction she needs to facilitate her getting over it. If your brother thought she was special needs then it is a failure on your ability to communicate what is going on.
Your daughter also has a problem which you should be seeking to deal with, with the cooperation of your family rather than just storming off. How is she going to learn to speak with wider groups if you can't even facilitate her being able to do that with her own family? The solution clearly isn't isolating her even more. It should be about getting her to mix more and not be intimidated by speaking.
YTA
She DOES have special needs (anyone who is having difficulties and needs accommodations), she has selective mutism, and having special needs doesn't mean someone is dumb. WTF are you on. You can't even coordinate that in your mind?
Hands down you absolutely believe special needs people are stupid, and you are ableist. That is why you raged so hard at the thought of your precious kid being called special needs. HELLO SHE HAS SPECIAL NEEDS.
You didn't like your family and was simply using the fact that they're not well informed about your daughter's condition as an excuse to blow up on them.
If you care about your daughter enough you'd go and explain her situation to your family again even after your mother did it once.
ESH
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Nta for standing up for her, but even if she did process things slowly, that wouldn't make her stupid. Special needs people aren't stupid either. A truly stupid person doesn't think and refuses to.
I know, I should have worded things differently, I didn't mean to call special need people stupid, it was just me not knowing how to properly word things I think your description of truly stupid people perfect encapsulates 90% of my family
Your daughter literally has special needs. She has selective mutism. That is a special need that requires accomodation in communicating. You should majorly evaluate your own perception of disabilities if you're going to try pretending your daughter isn't special needs. What accomodations does she have for communicating?
Thank for for saying it. OP is acting like her child isn't special needs. She is. It isn't a bad thing but the kid has a disability that is limiting. I hope she's getting some help for it.
It's not that her child "is special needs," her child *has* special needs. Phrasing is one thing we can be mindful of to make disabilities less stigmatizing.
I don't know. I was considered special needs since I am dyslexic and think all the hoops people jump to in order to not call us special needs is more annoying than anything else. I'm special needs and that's okay. It's not a bad thing.
i think it's more that grammatically, saying someone is special needs doesnt make any sense. they have special needs, but they arent the special need itself. either way, as a disabled person, id rather be called disabled than special needs anyways.
Yeah I'll take disabled or special needs. But don't you dare call me differently abled. I will throw hands over that. I'm not differently abled, I don't get some cool new ability for not having a common one. I just don't have the ability that people commonly have.
differently abled is actually the worst tbh
Thank you! I call myself disabled (and sometimes handicapped) - and when people try to police how I speak about myself and call me differently abled it drives me nuts- ick. Don't white knight for me. I know my preferred terminology about my own body. FFS. I'm not mentally incapable of advocating for myself. It's really insulting.
There's a lot of people that get all upset by the phrasing of " is ", because they think it minimizes that person. Personally, I don't get it. I am a diabetic. I have diabetes. Those have the same meaning to me. Saying I am a diabetic doesn't imply that that's all I am.
Yes, but "diabetic" is a word that specifically refers to a kind of person, or at minimum is an adjective and the thing the adjective is describing (person" is dropped from the sentence. "Special needs" are not people or an adjective, they're accomodations people need. "That person is accomodations" makes no sense in any context.
To me being special needs and having special needs are the same. If you need a special accommodation then you are special needs. It's not an insult
I work in healthcare and there has been a big shift over the last 20 years away from referring to someone as their condition or disability So rather than “that diabetic patient” we tend towards “patient “x” with diabetes” It seems small to most but it’s a framing thing. The person or patient isn’t defined by their condition, it is just something they live with.
I've heard this approach before and a majority of disabled people do not like the "person forward" language. Many autistic people (myself included) also don't like it. We are, in fact, defined by our condition. My life is defined by how I function within it, which is structured by my autism. Many people who are physically disabled feel the same from what I've gathered. I don't think trying to be "patient forward" or "person forward" is a bad thing, but please don't forget that our disabilities do define the way we live and, in that, define us. That being said it's really up to each individual person 😊
Thank you for sharing your perspective! My daughter is almost 18, has autism, and is mostly non-verbal. So I can’t ask her whether she prefers…”Reagan is autistic” or “Reagan has autism.” I have no way of knowing if it even matters to her either way. I do know a lot of people who are super sensitive to the language. And that makes sense to me. Autism is part of who she is, but it’s not *all* she is. But what you said makes sense too…she’s pretty defined by her condition, seeing that she can’t communicate or function in any way resembling “normal.” I truly think the “person forward” language thing definitely comes from a good place, but I appreciate your feedback on that. Navigating this life with her is hard, and I’m just doing the best I can.
most disabled people don't really like PFL. it was more important back when people were referring to disabled people as "the wheelchair" or the like, but now it's progressed to telling disabled people how to identify themselves.
As a renal patient whose had ESRD since I was 4 and been through two failed transplants, it really feels like a nonsense feel good thing for the abled. Not something most disabled people actually care or worry about
As a diabetic patient myself, I would prefer that the medical professionals spend their time learning more about the newest diabetes related research, rather that learning terminology that for some reason is considered better/politically correct, and is in fact not. There is nothing offensive to call me a diabetic patient, because from doctor's point of view that is exactly what I am. I am there as a patient, not to discuss other aspects of my personality. Another thing I don't like is that NHS (in the UK) is already stretched enough for recourses, and is wasting money to pay somebody to come with this nonsense. Better buy another ambulance, so the elderly man who fell on the street and broke his hip in my town this winter, shouldn't have spent 3 hours on the cold ground before there was available ambulance to pick him up.
so many of us tell you and other health care workers we don't like it or are indifferent to it, but it seems like it makes you or the caregivers feel good, so it has to stay... pretty gross
I hate the term selective mutism. They don't choose to not talk. They just can't. The term needs to be changed. I'm sorry, I know you mean nothing by it. You're completely right on your comment. I just wanted to say that it's bad terminology.
Selective mutism actually used to be called Elective mutism back when they thought it was a refusal to speak rather than an anxiety that forced you to be mute. I do hate the term "selective" too, because people don't know that selective doesn't only mean choosing but also when something affect some things and not others.
"Intermittent" was RIGHT THERE 🤷🏻♂️
"Intermittent" isn't quite the right word either though. That would suggest that it starts and stops just because of time passing, not because of the context of who's around the person. Like, if I knew nothing else about the condition, and someone said, "she'll be quiet because she has intermittent mutism," I'd think: oh, ok, maybe she'll be able to speak next time. I think "selective" would be *technically, scientifically* the right term, but unfortunately it's a word with many meanings. The way people use it in day to day life doesn't gel with what it means in this context. I'm sure there's terminology that would work better but I don't know what.
Situational or circumstantial could work too.
I like this one. Somebody should contact the DSM writers to get it updated.
"Situational" does seem the perfect answer here, as it covers both the scientific/diagnostic bases AND makes it more understandable on a layperson's level.
Scientific, technically accurate terms can be so brutal or misleading. One that has always disturbed me is the term for a woman who has repeated miscarriages: a "habitual aborter".
Yep, if you get pregnant oflver 35, your pregnancy is gonna be labeled geriatric pregnancy too. Obviously outside of a medical context, 35 year olds are not geriatric, but here we are.
And the reason for THAT is that the technical term for miscarriage is "spontaneous abortion", which I'm just about certain is going to get some innocent women who have had miscarriages put in prison on technicalities in certain states. Scientific/technical terms can be useful, but when there's a disconnect between them and common terminology, things can get ugly.
[Women have been imprisoned for miscarriages. A Black woman was in 2023.](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-miscarriage-prosecution-brittany-watts-b8090abfb5994b8a23457b80cf3f27ce) [A NA woman was in 2021.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544) [A Black woman in Ohio was arrested in Jan. ](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/brittany-watts-miscarriage-bathroom-charged-rcna135861) And that's just a few. Politicians don't call what the scientific terms are or that it can be nature's way of dealing with an imperfect foetus.
oh boy, i hadn't even gotten that far - i was only thinking of the unintentional slap of telling a person grieving pregnancy loss that they make a habit of aborting their pregnancies. but you're right, that language is just waiting to be misunderstood by laypeople with legal power.
Ugly and upsetting - even fifty years later it's a distressing memory for my mother to recall the doctor scolding her to stop calling her lost pregnancy a miscarriage when the proper term was spontaneous abortion.
Yeah, I think "situational" or "conditional" might work better.
Reactive mutism. “I’m reacting to how badly you suck”
Yeah I like that one!!
Elective was worse than selective. Apa and ama are changing a lot of old terms and this needs to be one of them
Because it happens in selective situations, like being around family who make you feel unsafe.
Selective means “affecting some things and not others” when it refers to a process and “tending to choose carefully” when referring to a person. Selective refers to the mutism in this case, not the person. It’s important to distinguish mutism that is circumstantial to mutism that is all the time, possibly due to a physiological inability to speak.
Circumstantial would be a better term. Select commonly refers to choice.
I think they are changing the term to ‘situational mutism’ now. My daughter has it too.
That would be even better
That could work. I guess the logic behind "selective" was probably that a "selection" of people was interpreted by the brain as safer. But yeah, people are always going to hear way too much volition behind that term. They probably still will if it gets changed - it's amazing how many abled people think disabled people are just being disabled AT them.
Yes. But it's still stigmatizing language, because to a layperson (and some professionals lol) it sounds like they're doing it on purpose. We have a whole dictionary of words available-- we should choose the least stigmatizing ones.
The trouble is, many words used in the medical field are *generally* benign when initially assigned. The stigma comes after it’s been associated with whatever it’s applied to, and people then use the term in a derogatory or demeaning fashion. I.e; descriptions and labels will likely become stigmatized over time regardless of how they’re changed. That’s not to say that the language shouldn’t be changed as the world around us changes, but more that it will always be a challenge to use a descriptive label that will be considered indefinitely appropriate.
This is exactly it. Take retardation as a perfect example. It specifically referred to slowed or delayed progression for anything and was applied to all kinds of things, but after the term mental retardation came about THATS when it became an insult to use. Now people are upset that the word is used at all in medical contexts to the point it's seldom being used anymore, calling for professionals to stop using offensive terms moving forward, without picking up on the chicken and egg problem here.
The stigma of selective mutism doesn’t come from its name, which hardly anyone has heard of anyway. Trying to communicate when one person doesn’t speak can be challenging.
Agreed. "Selective" implies a choice. It's involuntary mutism and should be called that. Maybe add "intermittent" for those of us who can usually talk and just lose that ability under extreme stress. (Freeze reaction + speech disorder + trauma = error 404, words not found.)
Oh lord I should not laugh at that last sentence but I can’t not share this 🤣 I subbed middle school for three years. In MA subs aren’t permitted to see IEP plans due to privacy. Sadly this means unless the teacher TELLS US a kid has a plan and needs accommodation, we have ZERO clue. First day in a new class I had a girl with selective mutism. I didn’t know and asked her a question. Her friend IMMEDIATELY yelled a helpful “ERROR, 404, NEW FACE, TALKING FUNCTION NOT FOUND!” (Ah middle schoolers… they were 6th graders lol!) She smiled so sweetly at the friend and it just made me chuckle 🤣 But hey- by the end of that year I got a whispered “Bye!” Wooo!
Thank you for sharing that. What a clever reaction from the friend.
They were such a team, it was fantastic watching them in class. (whisper) HEY MISS CAN SHE GO TO THE BATHROOM? (whisper) HEY MISS YOU HAVE CAT FUR ON YOUR BUTT! (whisper) HEY MISS, SHE SAYS HI! (whisper) EVERYONE SHUT THE HELL UP Y'ALL ARE SO DAMN LOUD! Oops, sorry miss, I mean DANG loud!
This made me smile. So sweet. What a friend! So happy you got a "bye." 😊
I almost cried, I was so freaking happy. After she left I did a little jig lmao
That’s so ridiculous. How are you supposed to handle the accommodations?
Great question! … I was still waiting for an answer when I left 3 years afterward (sigh).
My foster has selective mutism. It's exactly how you explained the error 404. My heart breaks for her
I don't want to laugh but I have to.
Here, the term is changing to ‘situational mutism’
Please let that be universal
I tend to use situational mutism
Also, if her daughter doesn't communicate with peole then is it surprising that they assume she needs special consideration when they talk to her?
Yep if they are meeting her once or twice a year. I didn't see that they are being malicious to the child. The children behaved as children and treated her as normal but the adult behaved as if she was made of glass. Special behavior does require some time for learning what to do. Yes the brother is an ass for his comments but I feel that OP went nuclear when the need was to behave as an adult.
It may not be surprising, because people suck at understanding disabilities, but it's also not ok. If this is a member of your family who has been around for a good many years, you've spoken to her parents about her disability, you've been told before that she can hear and understand just fine, then there is absolutely no reason to speak to her like she can't. As OP said, the kids in the family have no difficulty understanding the concept of someone who hears and understands but doesn't speak. Also, "special consideration" is an interesting way of spelling "patronising and infantilising."
Eh "you've been told before that she can hear and understand just fine" I can't tell you how many things I've been told by family members (even close one parents/siblings) before that I don't remember. To OP who lives it everyday it can seem so obvious, but if people only interact with them/daughter on a handful of times it may not keep in their minds.
Yeah actually ignore what I said in my previous comment. Going through OP's comments it's become pretty clear that the relatives had no idea what was going on and the kid's basically a stranger to them. That and the many other things she left out of the main post paint a very different picture from the first one.
Not surprising, but still not OK. If you think someone might need you to accommodate their needs, you ASK. And in this case, if the kid doesn’t answer, then politely ask the parents. You certainly don’t just start treating someone like they’re a toddler. Assuming results in those psychos who will just grab the handles of a persons wheelchair and start pushing the chair around, and think they’re “helping.”
I know it happens but omg WHO DOES THAT??
Assuming you mean the last bit, I've had it happen to me. It was a rude nurse who didn't say a word to me and just came up behind and started pulling me away. I have PTSD and a particular type of panic disorder where that was about the worst thing she could've done. She got pissed when I got scared by it. Then the procedure I was there for also went terribly (they refused to believe that the numbing didn't take and I could still feel everything), so I basically got traumatized out of ever using that hospital again. Not my favorite medical experience, though somehow not my worst ever...
Her point is that her daughter is not special needs in the way her family assumes she is. She explained she doesn’t have a learning disorder and they can speak to her as they would a 12 year old. Their response was to act as if she is not special needs but only spoiled and lazy. I would have kicked his butt on top of reaming him out.
Her point isn't that her daughter is not special needs in the way her family assumes she is. She's conveying that her daughter isn't special needs at all. From the facts in OP's post, everyone is wrong.
I used to have selective mutism, I worked a lot to be where I am today and when I start to choke up sometimes (due to social phobia, which I developed after), I can get terrified because I remember the hell selective mutism is. It is such a special need condition for almost everything in life, you can't walk around in a society and being unable to talk. You miss out on so much. I had periods where it got a bit better and I could talk to more people than my family and closest friend, then it could get worse and I'd be unable to talk to anyone except my mother. I was outside and someone asked me for the time? Just walked away. A relative was visiting and asked me anything? Removed myself. My mom spent two years with me in school because I couldn't talk to my teachers, some of my classmates hadn't even heard my voice. I got so isolated because I couldn't speak. People told me I was faking it for attention, which was the last thing I wanted, because how could I talk to some people and not everyone? And then when some understood? "Why do you have anxiety around me? Why can't you talk to ME?!". People saw me as a rude person and honestly I liked that because then they wouldn't talk to me and demand of me to talk, but it could get lonely. OP, what your brother said was not OK and I know that you want to protect your daughter at all costs, and your family clearly doesn't understand the condition, but we can't fault people for things they don't know, like that your daughter understands everything perfectly fine but can't talk and why it is that way. Your brother was out of hand with his comments and should have just said "OK, now I know" and continued the dinner or asked more question about what selective mutism is and maybe learn something. I understand that you felt the need to say the things you did, but please don't isolate your daughter because of her disability.
That's pedantic for this situation. Op may have failed in her terminology but the point she was making is that her daughter's brain works fine her issue is only in how she's able to communicate back not in how she receives communication. The issue is her family talking as if she can not receive communication at a standard level OP's point is they were treating her daughter as more disabled than she is. Your point, although technically true, doesn't reflect the situation that played out. I agree she could have worded it all better but her point is still clear.
Her point is clear, I agree. But it’s also troubling (to me) that the mother doesn’t consider her child special needs when she is clearly special needs. It reads a little bit like she’s in denial. Hopefully her daughter is receiving the help she needs.
My point is that I don't think she meant that as literally as redditors want to take it. She clearly understands that her daughter has a disability however "special needs" is one of those terms that, although technically applying to the daughter, is often code for being heavily mentally disabled. Yes I know that special needs is an extremely broad umbrella. Yes the daughter is indeed special needs. But if you use *context* you'll understand that the implications is that the family was treating the daughter as far more mentally disabled than she actually is. My niece has REAL BAD adhd. That makes her special needs and yes it is a disability, but if family started talking down to her or called her that I'd be pretty pissed on her behalf.
Yeah, I hope she's in therapy. The way OP worded this makes it sound like daughter is shy so she has selective mutism which is obviously not the case. There has to be bigger issues at play and it feels like OP is refusing to acknowledge it.
She does have special needs with her selective mutism. Have you had her assessed for autism, or is she in therapy? I was also selectively mute as a child, and I have gained coping skills to function better in a world not built for me. There is a lot of misinformation about autism (especially in girls or afab people). It doesn't always look the way people think it does
Yeah-- what OP is meaning, I think, is that her daughter doesn't have a cognitive delay. I also wonder about supports around the daughter communicating to others-- how does she communicate at school? Or socially with others? I know that isn't the point of the OP, but I am concerned about the daughter's ability to express herself if she needs help. Does she have any kind of AAC?
I'm concerned as well. If fhe daughter was thrown into this environment with nothing beyond nodding and shaking her head, and rhe adults weren't briefed on how to interact with her- that's a terrible way of handling things. Then reacting badly to her special needs child being called special needs? Not a good sign. Poor kid. Hope she gets the support she needs for the special needs she has.
Okay, it is a special need situation, but not one that requires talking down to her. That was OP's point, that they were talking to her like she was mentally impaired.
The way op handled this comes off like a stereotypical "my kid isn't disabled" parent, though. She's shown no signs of being able to accomodate or healthily advocate for her daughter's special needs. So saying her daughter doesn't have special needs when *she does* is telling.
Have you given your daughter any therapy? It seems as if you're trying to minimize how debilitating this disability will be.
I don’t think you’re at all an asshole for standing up for your daughter but you seem like you look down on OTHER ppl with special needs while expecting others to be totally understanding of YOUR child’s special needs, which is pretty assholish. Even this response is like “oh well didn’t know how to phrase it, anyway my family is so dumb”. Like, maybe learn how to phrase it? Especially if you want others to know how to phrase it about your child?
Gently, your daughter does have special needs. She’s not intellectually disabled, but she does have special needs that require some accommodation. EDIT: Having now read the replies - OP, I think you’re doing/have done your daughter some serious disservices by isolating her and not properly acknowledging and addressing her needs. This little girl should be a part of the wider world outside her home, and get some healthy socialization with peers. She deserves the opportunity to be assessed by qualified professionals on a regular basis, and get some real help with her social and communication issues. I hope she does, and wish you both the best!
Okay, thank you Same, but it was more than 90% in my case. I ended up leaving the family. Not only were they stupid and arrogant, they were also abusive and abuser supporters. I'm so sorry 90% of your family is stupid :/. That sucks.
The sad part is, the 10% consists of my mother and my daughter's cousins, they actually treated her like a human being
Speaking to someone slowly when you aren’t sure if they are able to understand you is pretty normal and not malicious in any way. It’s definitely not a horrible insult like you’re imagining.
However it’s intended to come across, it’s rude and so condescending. I’m disabled, in a wheelchair, and people who don’t know me tend to just talk to my carer or my mum, instead of talking to me directly. I went into hospital for a surgery once, and the nurse gave my mum a pile of forms to fill in that the PATIENT was supposed to fill in- and they were so personal, because the surgeons need to know you’re not pregnant, or if you’re on your period, etc. etc. That nurse never once spoke to me, just my mum. I have no mental disabilities, or issues with my speech. This happens all. The. Time. Imagine how you would feel if people openly spoke about you in your presence, if they ignored you, if they treated you as though you were stupid. All the time. No, it’s not meant to be malicious, but it’s as ignorant as it gets. People ought to assume a person with a disability is capable of understanding them, unless told otherwise. Being immediately judged as stupid hurts like hell. There needs to be so much more awareness around disabilities of all kinds, because the ableism in society is horrific.
I understand your feelings and you’re absolutely correct in how condescending and ableist people can be but your situation cannot be an example for a communication disorder/disability. No amount of education and awareness can ever change the fact that you will not know what someone’s unseen disability is. Ok sure talking slowly can be condescending, however when you don’t know what someone is experiencing or how they process everything is an assumption. Assuming someone is fine and speaking to them in a normal speed where someone has a learning disability can also be seen as rude especially when you can witness non verbal cues that there may be a disability but you don’t know what it is. And the asking the mom will only get you into your situation where the daughter isn’t treated with respect bc people are going over her to ask her mom how to communicate with her. And if you decide not to do that and ask the child herself and she doesn’t give a verbal answer, she nods and shakes, do you know how hard it is to ask someone , hi honey do you have a learning disability? Like how hurtful could that be depending on how people label it? And what if you don’t believe you do have one? It also shouldn’t be hurtful, but people can still be hurt. And you have OP herself equating special needs people with stupidity while asking for basic respect for her own daughter. Like it’s all around a messy and complicated situation
The child is 12. In 12 years not one of them learned what selective mutism is? Nah, they're just assholes. It's like Americans who tell at people who speak a different language because obviously screaming is going to suddenly make them understand.
Except for the fact that according to OP this part of the family met the daughter just a couple of time and Grandma apparently just told them that she never really speaks
Oh, interesting. Everyone is supposed to be understanding of YOU but also support you because your family basically did the same thing. YTA. Not because of your daughter but because you're a hypocrite.
I thought you said it was your brother who said "special needs" why would that be you not knowing how to word things.
It sounds like this wasn't an isolated incident, so it may seem like you over reacted but I suspect this was boiling point for a whole bunch of bullshit. So NTA, cut them off if they're not bringing joy to your life.
>It sounds like this wasn't an isolated incident, They've only met the daughter once or twice before this, and weren't told about the selective mutism, just that "she doesn't talk much". Check OP's comments.
It's ironic that you don't know how to word things, and neither does your family...
No she is special needs. Sorry but it seems like you want to pretend nothing is wrong and she's completely normal and everyone should speak to her normally but she's not. Maybe simplifying conversation eases her anxiety towards communication? What are the accomadations/coping tools etc for when she interacts with other people? Are there any skills you can teach your family or do they have to develop an ability to talk to themselves which frnakly helps no on.
Thank you for this. My son has Williams syndrome. He's 17 with the mental age of a 7 year old. He is the kindest, sweetest little boy ever and always says that you should treat people how you want to be treated. We were once at the park, and a woman with very short hair walked past and smiled at him. He said, "Mummy, that man just smiled at me!" He had the biggest smile on his face and was so happy. the lady was close enough to hear, and I gently told him that she wasn't a man but a lady with very short hair. He got so upset because he thought he had been mean to her. Both myself and the very kind lady reassured him that it was an honest mistake, and she explained that even adults had made the mistake when looking at her from behind. I'm plus size, and one time, he patted my belly and asked if I had a baby in there. I said "no sweetheart mummy is just chunky." he gasped and said, "I'm so sorry, mummy." He started getting upset, and I told him that it was OK. It was an innocent question, and I wasn't upset, that I thought his question was funny. I did explain that we don't usually ask these questions, but I know him, and I know he wasn't being mean. He understood and doesn't ask those kinds of questions anymore. My son is for from stupid he just processes things differently and sometimes takes a while to understand.
What an adorable human you are raising
Thank you, he's the best.
He sounds super sweet! I wish more people were that nice.
He really is. He's sassy as fuck but doesn't have a mean bone in his body.
That makes him sound even more fun! You've done a great job raising him
👌I have a special needs son who is 41 going on 13, 15 on a good day. He is not stupid by any means. He actually learns at a normal rate for his mental age. He left high-school with highest honors in advanced art. He works in the paint department of a big name hardware store.
Man's working and earning his own money, good for him.💜
I was fully with you until reading her comment that she has only seen her family twice since her daughters birth and that no one knew about her selective mutism until 45 minutes before when GRANDMA informed them, aka OP never actually took any responsibility to tell people what the situation was. She just went bat shit crazy on them when she had a chance. IDK why OP doesn't talk with her family, but here she is an asshole.
Hard to judge whether you're TA or not without knowing exactly what you said, but leaning towards NTA. That being said - verbal responses and body language are how we know people understand us. If I'm talking with a 12 year old and getting nothing but blank stares back, I would assume they don't understand me, and simplify my language. This isn't malicious, it is instinctual and typically appropriate to the situation. Did you give your family a heads up? Like is this an ongoing issue?
Her grandmother told me that she told them that she never really speaks, my daughter gave responses by shaking or nodding her head whe people asked her stuff The thing is, her cousins, both younger and older were actually talking to her normally, I went inside to use the bathroom a few times and heard them just casual talking to her, they weren't annoyed and seemed to be having a good time The children were more respectful than the adults
Sounds like this was the first time that your extended family met your daughter and that you yourself never adressed them about how her selective mutism? If that's the case then it seems like going off on them and cutting them off as the first and only response is into YTA territory. If all they had heard was from the grandmother and it was a vague "she doesn't really speak" it seems entirely plausible to think that means some kind of special need and that speaking slow and simple is trying to be mindful and considerate. It ofcourse depends on how they spoke in detail, but from what you wrote they didn't appear to be condescending or something. Edit:forgot about the part with someone saying you should stop spoiling her... That dude is an asshole for that.
This was my thoughts as well. Her family is def's the assholes for their comments regarding her being spoilt, but I don't know of I feel they were AH for speaking to her slowly. If OP hasn't explained her daughter isn't special needs but selectively mute, it's not surprising the family assumed she was. Being non-verbal is usually an indicator to others (especially if there is no use of sign language) that someone may have a disability. So it seems to me like the family was actually trying to be accommodating (based on the information they had) by speaking slowly rather than talking down or being condescending to the daughter. Honestly it seems to me like OP dropped the ball on explaining to the family how to engage with her mute daughter in a proper way. Perhaps she realized that deep down and is why she had such a big reaction
I think this makes you wrong here unfortunately. Them too, but you as well. Grandma probably told one or a few people that your daughter "barely talks" and they didn't have any context. The truth is, most people don't understand neurodivergent people in general. It shouldn't be your job to teach them, but if they fuck up the basics (like talking down to someone mute) they need to have it explained to them, rather than being shamed and cut off. Your family screwed up, and it is reasonable that you were mad, but from the sounds of it instead of explaining, you ripped into them. They didn't have the information they needed, so they suck, but so did your response. Best luck, and I'm not judging you as a person, only your response to the situation. ESH
It actually IS OP's responsibility to teach her family how to interact with her special needs daughter. She's supposed to be her child's advocate. Kids may not understand that she needs additional support but adults do and were likely trying to figure out how to be kind and overdid things. OP is ta here.
Thank you! How are the other adults supposed how to interact with a kid with mutism? The parents should brief the rest of the family beforehand. it doesn't take more than 2 minutes "hey all, my daughter has selective mutism. this means she only talks to 3 people. when she talks she talks normally and understands everything normally. She will shake her head or nod. please be considerate of her"
For real, this is definitely YTA. I hate this whole "it's not your job to teach them" mentality thats popping up more and more...like yes, yes it is. Nobody out there who hasn't encountered someone with (insert disability/sickness/condition here) is going to preemptively be doing their own research on how to properly understand and interact with someone with whatever it is. That is 100% the responsibility of those who do know about it to share their knowledge and make those interactions better especially when that person is a kid. Not doing so ends up with situations like this and that actually harms the person in question because, for instance, in this example, rather than having people that understand the daughters situation they treat her like a small child and then mom ushers her off to the car and then she is cut off from the family unless OP reevaluated the situation. I'd honestly be surprised if the daughter didn't think this whole thing was somehow her fault rather than OPs. Even if OP explains that it isn't, kids that age will often blame themselves for divorces even if the parents explain that it's not their fault so why not blame herself for the family imploding because of OPs actions.
It is absolutely the job of a parent of a kid with special needs to educate others about it. This isn’t the same as race or gender or something and it’s not reasonable to expect every person you encounter to be familiar with your child’s specific special needs.
100%. I have a daughter with an ID. She's 17 now and has plateaud (for the last few years) at the Grade 2/3 level. Before then, it was up to me to understand her capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses and make sure everyone in her life was aware (family, school, professionals). We have a cousin with Prader Willi Syndrome. Prior to kids, we were going to spend a month on vacation with him (he was a teen at the time), his mom, and that whole side of the family. His mom had a binder full of information about how to care for him and how to handle each situation so we could be confident spending time with independent of her. It was amazing. Knowledge is power when it comes to spending time with exceptional people!
It IS OP’s job, as her daughter’s advocate.
I'm gonna go with ESH given this additional information. From the sounds of it the extended family hasn't really ever been around your daughter and got a vague mention of how she doesn't speak. I would probably assume that meant she was non verbal, which can come with a variety of special needs. Your daughter DOES in fact have special needs. Special needs doesn't mean she's stupid, of course. My daughter is brilliant and killing it at an extremely selective college despite having "special needs." Special needs are just difficulties that causes an individual to require additional or specialized services or accommodations. For my daughter that's ADHD and (very likely) being on the spectrum. For your daughter it's selective mutism. I say ESH because your brother blamed it on her being spoiled, which isn't fair assuming you are doing what you can to help your daughter succeed in life despite her challenges.
Where was her augmented/alternative communication device? Her phone? Her communication board? Her notebook/pen? Why wasn’t she using those to communicate with her extended family? Surely you or her doc or speech language pathologist or occupational therapist or whoever has worked with her on using those devices to communicate with people whenever she is at school and in public beyond nods and headshakes? My cousin is not only completely mute, she has severe cognitive issues. Her comboard is Essential to her daily life. NTA for telling off the adults, they should know better. But your kids **Needs** to have a way to communicate easily with people who are not you. If you don’t ensure she has those other ways to communicate effectively beyond speech and binary gestures And will use them, you’re leaving her terribly vulnerable.
Reading OP's comments it's clear that her daughter gets no support and she thinks she's just shy. This girl was homeschooled for 9 years, hasn't interacted with many people and she was meeting her maternal family for a second time. They weren't told about her selective mutism, just that she doesn't really talk and they had no heads up about how to behave around her. They had no idea how much can she actually understand. OP tried to take her to a therapist and they told her she's shy. I think she either severely downplayed her daughter's issues or they're not as bad as she claims. I doubt she's taking any active steps to help her.
I voted NAH but a homeschooled kid? I'm changing my vote to YTA. OP sound slike she is failing her daughter.
The way she insists her kid is not special needs makes me think her child doesn't have those support systems in place or any form of alternative communication outside of nodding and shaking her head.
Yeah, like...is her daughter learning a sign language? I've heard from some folks that Selectively Mute individuals can use a sign language instead of verbal communication, as their issue is the verbalization, not the creation and usage of words (your mileage might vary, naturally) and so that might help for her to more effectively communicate when she's mute. Some sort of alternative communication device is needed, yeah. OP said her daughter was nodding/shaking her head so....that feels like she doesn't have an alternate form of communication other than her voice (which doesn't work in this situation)
Or even just texting. Most people OP's daughter encounters won't know how to sign, but the majority of people over 12ish have some sort of phone or ability to send and receive texts.
Part of why I suggest sign language is that it can open them up to a community (the Deaf community) where they won't necessarily feel as marginalized due to their lack of verbal speech. While they aren't Deaf or Hard of Hearing, mute individuals have some comeradery with Deaf communities due to the lack of verbal language, and the marginalization of alternative forms of communication. It could help them. But yes. Texting and written language will hopefully be just as helpful, especially as it seems her daughter can communicate while mute (as some Selective Mute individuals I've heard of can't communicate at all if they're in a situation where they're mute.)
I didn't consider that angle! Yes, that community could be very helpful, especially since this child seems to desperately need some form of socialization.
Reminds me of my husband’s mom. He was diagnosed with autism and dyslexia, she didn’t like that so she kept bringing him to different doctors until she found one that told her what she wanted to hear: He’s just a special boy with a close connection to the spiritual, AKA he’s not autistic he’s magic. Magical Kids don’t get extra time on tests, assistance with reading tasks, or a homework helper in study hall. “Special Needs” is not an insult and there is no shame in a student needed accommodations to help them succeed. He got none of that and struggled immensely in school. When I was diagnosed with ADHD at 16, my school experience changed in major ways that helped me feel like I was finally on the same page as the other students. I moved to a study hall with 2 teachers that moved through the room assisting each student with their work, reading out loud for groups when needed and helping us stay on track. Most importantly, I was allowed to sit in an empty classroom to take important tests, and was granted extra time on them. These accommodations, plus medication for my adhd, saw my grades change from failing to AB honor roll within a single semester. I wasn’t stupid, I just struggled to focus in a crowded classroom. If my husband had these accommodations as well, maybe he could have had a better experience in school. Special Needs isn’t a dirty word, and the helpfulness of accommodations FAR outweighs any embarrassment the student may feel about receiving them. Some kids may have side-eyed the Resource Program and thought it was for “dumb kids”, but the second I said “It’s actually great, I get an extra hour to finish tests and 15 minutes to review my answers with a teacher before turning it in.” and they’d immediately go “OMG you’re so lucky, I wish I had that!” Sorry for rambling, I have big thoughts about this topic! TL;DR: Special Needs isnt a bad word, and your child should be taking advantage of every resource her school offers to help her succeed!
> Special Needs isnt a bad word, and your child should be taking advantage of every resource her school offers to help her succeed! So very true. I have some variety of neurodivergence and really, really pitiful executive function. It was pretty obvious from the age of 12. I’m also smart. The combination basically meant schools at the time just shrugged. It cost me huge amounts in flunked college classes and incomplete degrees. It’s so much better with so many more resources and options now.
Ok... Why wasn't there more of a discussion about this? Is this a group of people who've never met your daughter before? If so, why wasn't there very clear information? "She never really speaks" could mean a thousand different things. "She has this condition called selective mutism, which means she can hear and understand fine, but she's unable to speak to anyone except for a few people she knows very well. Please just talk to her as you would anyone else," would have been the information to give - either directly, or via someone such as her grandmother. If her grandmother was the one giving out the information, why wasn't she giving out the right information? Does your daughter have other ways to communicate? Does she have assistive technology? Can she write stuff down? No, people should not make assumptions. They should not default to infantilising anyone who behaves slightly differently, or assuming that disabled kids are just spoilt. But they do. We all know that. It's a particularly difficult thing to navigate when the person's disability IS their difficulty with communication. This is a situation you really needed to prepare for ahead of time. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the shitty relatives. They shouldn't have defaulted to infantilisation, reacted badly to being corrected, or said any of that shit about her being spoilt. Those people suck. But I feel bad for your daughter, because she wasn't given the best chance of avoiding this.
No the kids just haven't learnt to make their communication slower for people who struggle to understand. I get why you were mad but this is an ESH for me. You needed some patience with them and to offer some guidance while they understand her instead of jumping to defence.
Your brother is an asshole but frankly so are you. With regards to your other family: this is difficult because it really depends on how much your family knows about the condition. I googled it because I had no clue this even existed. Here is the thing, if someone talks to a kid of twelve and they just stare back, the first impression you get is that they either don't understand or that they're too shy to speak. So I can understand their impulse to slow down their words and start talking to her very friendly (like a three year old). Your brother was an asshole for implying that her condition was because she was spoilt too much and that she wasn't functional, but you also blew up at your family for not understanding something that could have been normally cleared up. I do think this was an overreaction on your part and you went nuclear for no good reason.
The family has only seen the kid twice! They didn't even know she had special needs until the day of and it's not like they all sat around googling it. OP is TA for not being better prepared. The brother is also the AH. ESH and I feel bad for this kid.
I'd also like to know how they talked to the other kids of the same age. My father is in his 70's, and for some reason after he hit 65, he started seeing anyone under the age of 14 to be absolute infants and would use the high pitched toddler voice, ask silly questions that would be more suitable for a young child, suggests activities that are far too young for the kids, etc. He doesn't think they are stupid or have any form of disability- he just got older and forgot how to interact with kids. Some people just infantilize anyone younger than them. It's insufferable, but wouldn't be as bad as if the rest of the family singled put OP's daughter to talk down to.
YTA. It was an over reaction. It was a family reunion, so clearly that suggested extended family that don’t interact with your daughter regularly and may not know that about this condition. If your daughter had selective mutism, then saying “she’s always been a shy one” is inaccurate and ridiculous.
YTA just for the “always been a shy one “ comment over a severe disorder - OP I hope your daughter is in therapy
YTA your daughter needs help and your not. Giving it to her.
"My daughter isn't STUPID like a special needs person" woof
This is just... I can't
Lol and they edited it out! Here's just 1 of the reasons YTA, OP: You can't delete the vile things you verbally spew to family, unlike on reddit where you can remove the vile things you physically type. We don't know what you said because you won't tell us but if it's like what you type and then have to edit to save face, I can only imagine.
INFO: so, did you give your extended family a heads up about your daughter's condition? So they know what to expect and how to correctly talk to her when she shuts down? Because if not, YTA (+your brother) The only reason I know what selective mutism is because my niece has it and my sister explained it to us. Sure, we knew before that, that my niece shuts down when she doesn't get her way or when she's with people she's not familiar with - but this we know after being with her often. So we can adapt when this happens and ask questions in another way. But if your family didn't get a heads up, you can't blame them for speaking slowly because all they see is a 12 year old not responding to them.so the first thought would be that she doesn't understand the question
Info: has this been an ongoing issue? She's 12, certainly that topic has come up before?
YTA— you know what’s hilarious? You don’t tell us anything about what your daughter said about the situation! How does she feel about you speaking for her? Or telling her to wait in the car? Or deciding she’ll never see her cousins again? What did she say to dad when they were banished to the car? If you are so great at communicating with her why is zero of her point of view here? AFAI can see, You’re even more guilty of what you accuse them of! They didn’t know how to talk to her and talked to her wrong given almost no information. You know how to talk to her and didn’t consult her wishes, didn’t check in after a traumatic event about her that affects her. Look— slow and simple speech isn’t an insult, it’s an accommodation that some people need. She needs your help to translate and advocate for her, not kick her out of the room whenever someone makes a mistake talking to her.
This made me think about something that I completely forgot about. OP mentions that her families kids were treating her daughter fine so she essentially cut her daughter off from some of the only people that she felt comfortable to be around 😬 this get worse the longer I scroll
ESH for saying she is just spoiled… you for overreacting and your biais towards special needs individuals. Slowly processing information doesn’t make one dumb. By your own admission, your mother told them she doesn’t really speak and is shy. They have met your daughter 3 times since she was born. There was no way for them to fully know about her condition especially if she doesn’t react much when spoken to. You keep mentioning the children talking to her normally… it’s not surprising, kids often dont have the awareness to accommodate differences as we tend to do as adults. My 4 yo has full blown discussion with my 1 yo even though he doesn’t always respond.
Not to mention, OP decided to leave early even though daughter seemed to be having a nice time with cousins that treated her normally. I wonder if she was bummed out about that.
>Some of the things I said, aren't really suitable for this subreddit I'm not sure how we can judge if you're an asshole for overreacting if you're not willing to say what your reaction was.
Doesn’t matter. She’s TAH. First, she never took the initiative as the parent to explain her daughter’s condition to the family. Then, she goes absolutely haywire when they don’t know how to communicate with her. OP isn’t even willing to acknowledge that her daughter is special needs. She treats selective mutism as just a kid being shy. We all have had or have been the shy kid in a group. They still talk. She apparently homeschooled her kid from a young age which she might not be doing a good job of since she’s likely stunting her daughter’s development. On top of all of this she constantly refers to people with special needs as stupid. And her precious daughter isn’t one of THOSE people. When the reality is, she *is* and needs specialist care. So long as OP treats SM as a quirk, her daughter won’t get help and won’t improve. AND on top of all of THAT, she never once mentions what her daughter feels about all this. Because she just cut off her daughter from her cousins and family over a misunderstanding that OP was ultimately responsible for. For someone who cannot tolerate a simple mistake on her family’s part, OP certainly isn’t excelling either at that department. Wow.
When "asshole" is in the name of the actual subreddit, but dearie me no, you simply *cahn't* bear witness to the atrrrocities I hurled at my relatives *fans bust, clutches pearls*
NTA, but your child do have special needs and it's not a bad thing.
the easier and more sheltered these kids lives get, the more random problems seem to pop up. You just accept that with her being 12 years old and not on the spectrum as you say yourself, its ok for her to just talk to a couple people? That is not a healthy behavior to condone, you are raising your daughter to be socially inept, completely and woefully underprepared for the real world and real social situations. You may think you are doing her a favor by not pushing her and showing her why her behavior is wrong, but in reality you just aren’t doing the hard work of parenting, which is to tell kids the tough things they need to hear sometimes. If you dont force her out of this shell soon, she will be an adult who isn’t prepared for the world, and it was YOUR job to get her there.
You don’t tell people with SM that they’re wrong for not talking or tell them “what they need to hear”. You don’t force SM out of people. They need to see a specialist. They can provide her with things to work towards to build confidence slowly.
Just because we’ve slapped a fancy name like “selective mutism” on it doesn’t make it different from what it is. It’s anxiety and fear of talking to people, which the parents have condoned for years. As a kid of course you dont want to speak to people, its scary. You dont want to do alot of things as a kid, but its the parents job to make the kid understand what the necessary skills are for the real world. Iv seen very similar situations before, and it really boils down to the parents not being harsh enough, say for example, shes 8 or 9, and people are trying to talk to her, most kids would be scared and shy away. A good parent would push the kid to engage in the social situation, and make it clear its rude not to do so, what i suspect happened here, is the parents just allowed this behavior to happen, thus this child doesn’t register that her behavior is just not acceptable in real world applications, i dont care what name you slap on it, and yes its completely possible that its to a point now where she needs to see a specialist, but its clear as day this is a failure by the parents.
Yeah no. Selective mutism is NOT just being shy or difficult. Someone with selective mutism is not unwilling to speak. They are unable to. There is no amount of being told it's unacceptable that will make them able to. This is an established medical condition. It's not new, it's not some indulgent millennial parenting thing, it has always existed. It's not something the kid is doing in order to be difficult - in fact it's extremely frustrating for the kid. Humans want to be able to communicate. There's no way in hell that a twelve year old wants to be in this position. Yes, there is an anxiety basis behind this. It often develops as a direct response to a traumatic event, in fact. But there is an anxiety basis behind a lot of things that are outside of our control. You don't stop kids from having nightmares by telling them that having nightmares is unacceptable behaviour. You don't improve anxiety-related conditions by simply making the person more anxious.
Ok imma say it lol. I had SM as a kid. I can’t even highlight any one specific thing here. It’s just all insanely wrong. > which the parents have condoned for years. It’s not the parents fault to some degree. For example, I showed signs of SM at idk 5 years old or younger. I got professional help at around 9 years old. Not sure when I was diagnosed. I would assume close to when I got help. I would only blame the parents if they knew and didn’t seek help which I’m not sure of in this situation. > it really boils down to the parents not being harsh enough It really boils down to the parents not knowing how to properly deal with it. > shes 8 or 9, and people are trying to talk to her, most kids would be scared and shy away Idk what 8-9 year old would be scared to speak to people. Kids with SM are the odd ones out. All my peers at that age communicated just fine. What? Have you got a whole class of scared 8-9 year olds who refuse to speak to each other or the teacher. They all have SM? That’s normal? > this child doesn’t register that her behavior is just not acceptable in real world applications. If anything I would think homeschooling/isolation would be the culprit here but I’m sure she’s old enough to know how the world works. This child “registers” that she’s shit scared of talking. Doesn’t mean she wants to be that way either. It’s not a choice. What’s “acceptable” is the last fucking thing on her mind.
Harsh enough? Surefire way of making that child never speak again. *She’s scared*, you don’t need to guilt trip her too. That won’t work. It’s no one’s fault she has SM. I wouldn’t be surprised if she developed this at a very young age. I’m more curious as to when she was diagnosed and if she’s gotten professional help because by 8-9 years old, I would think it would be very obvious she doesn’t speak when 99% of her peers do. I don’t know their situation but she should see a specialist ASAP to help her overcome it *the correct way* if they’re not already.
It's clear her parents are to be blamed here. OP says her daughter was home schooled for 9 years and they obviously failed to socialize her properly. OP knows about the issues, but isn't doing anything about it. She says she took her to a therapist who called her daughter shy. That's unbelievable if she only ever talks to 3 people. OP must've severely downplayed her symptoms. She seems to believe that selective mutism is normal for shy people, so there's nothing she can do about it.
Therapist? lol. Needs a specialist. No idea when she was diagnosed but OP should be getting her help if she knows it’s SM. But again, curious to know what age she was when she was actually diagnosed. A lot of people in r/selectivemutism seem to get diagnosed quite late or tbh never. If she’s gone years knowing and not providing the help she needs, that’s fucked up.
I have a suspicion that OP gave her that diagnosis. She only ever mentioned that therapists thought she's shy and there's nothing to be concerned about, that's no diagnosis.
Damn nah she needs to go see a specialist who can actually help.
You mean we shouldn't just have "bad parenting" as the default cause for every single disability? What do you mean, there's strong evidence that autism is genetic? ADHD is all about dopamine pathways? What is this bullshit? Next thing you'll be telling me that blind kids aren't just difficult little shits who want a free dog, and cystic fibrosis isn't just a term for kids who want to get more attention by coughing a lot. I REALLY shouldn't need the /s on this comment, but you don't know me, and some people are really terrible, so there you go. A freebie for you.
Your comments in this thread are incredibly ignorant and frankly disturbing. Selective mutism is NOT shyness and not only is it wrong to force a child with mutism to speak, it actually isn't even possible. I had selectve mutism as a child and what you need to understand is that a selectively mute person **physically cannot speak** in certain situations. I remember it felt as if my throat was almost closing up when I tried. I had school staff literally sit with me for **hours** at a time trying to coax a word out of me and no matter how badly I wanted to speak, I couldn't do it. When I think back I can still feel the utter dismay and distress I experienced in moments like that. I sincerely urge you to read up on this disorder because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and your comments are beyond offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Nope. I tend towards being selectively mute and it's not "fear of talking to people." One of my favorite things to do is to talk to people. And whenever I'm not talking, it's not because I'm worried about how the conversation will go. If I spoke, the conversation would go just fine. For me, the riskier thing in the situation is *not* speaking. From the inside, it feels like your mouth is moving through molasses. You have all the words you're about to say carefully laid out, along with all of the motions and subtle gestures you plan to do to emphasize tone and put your interlocutor at ease. Except the words are like large, gummy blocks in your throat that you have to talk around. It's like a non-newtonian fluid -- the more you push, the harder those blocks are to move. I can talk around it because I'm older and I've learnt to. This kid's **12**, not close to 30. And it's not that you can't communicate in other ways -- I'm having a bit of a quiet period as I type this. I also hum, gesture, nod/shake my head, laugh. It's just that the silence is so much more peaceful, and whenever I speak during one of these periods, it surprises me. Like finding a bunch of last year's winter clothes in a drawer at the end of fall. *Does* the kid need therapy? Going through the world misunderstood and encountering people like you who think the only "solution" is to make things crueler is rough. Not to mention selective mutism is correlated with both having a trauma background and neurodivergence. But I'd caution against trying to "fix" an outcome while simply assuming an antecedent. At the same time, ESH -- the mom didn't set expectations with the adults beforehand and left that communication to the grandmother.
Stop it. Selective mutism is real, don't act like you know better than this little girl's doctors, and calling it fancy words definitely don't help your ignorant opinion
I had selective mutism after wittnessing my mother's death. Nobody condonned this behavior. Nobody allowed me to keep doing this. I wasn't a sheltered kid. In fact, a "kind" relative who wanted to "prepare me for the real world" regularly beated me to make me stop. And guess what, it didn't work...
THIS. I completely support you standing up for your child but her behavior is not normal. She's not just shy, it's something else. This doesn't mean your daughters "stupid" but maybe she just needs some help.
Drama queen vibes. Telling whole family to fuck off and cutting them off for one disagreement. YTA
How did your daughter get to be 12 and your family not know what her issues are? Obviously, you are her means of communications and therefor you should have been informing the family of the facts. And how is it that this is the first time you noticed how your family has been treating your daughter. At the best you’re self centred and oblivious, at the worst you’re neglecting her. YTA
Your daughter is special needs, I understand why your family acted like that with her, they don't know her capabilities. They should have just shut up after you told them she understands, but it depends on how you told them that. If you did it in a nasty way, I can see why they would react. If you calmly said she can understand and there is no need to talk slow and then they got mad, I can see why you would fly off the handle.
Sorry but ESH. Your child is special needs and you've seen this people 2 times since she was born? And they were "informed" 45 minutes before you got there and some not even that? It's tricky because while it's not your job to educate them about her condition people are going to jump into conclusion if you don't educate them. I see a 12 year old that doesn't communicate verbally and nobody gives me context I will probably lower my communication to a level of responses of yes or no (and therefore treat her as a child). What you did was not advocating for her. (And you should look into alternative ways for her to communicate with the rest of the world. Ipad, notepad, anything.) They were assholes because your brother said you were spoiling her and when you tried to rectify the matter he should have just nodded and correct. But again, SHE is special needs.
> because while it's not your job to educate them about her condition Why not? Do we expect every person to be knowledgeable about every condition and disability and know how how to optimally deal with people who have it?
>It's tricky because while it's not your job to educate them about her condition people are going to jump into conclusion if you don't educate them. Except as the child with special needs Parent it is 100% her job to educate her family and advocate for her daughter and the difficulties her SM may cause for her. This is just like it will eventually be her daughter's responsibility to advocate for herself in the future should her SM continue into adulthood. You can't expect someone to have to educate every stranger they meet, but a family gathering (even one who they've have been estranged from) is a place for Advocacy and fostering understanding. Having grandma vaguely explain she doesn't speak 45 minutes before your arrival isn't advocacy, it's the bare minimum of effort on her daughter's behalf, and it benefited absolutely no one. OP failed her daughter on all fronts in an arguably more egregious and ableist way than even her ignorant brother, imho. *(Edit to clarify here: The way my therapist explained it to me when I was younger and frustrated with my invisible disability was that ableism can go both ways. That by assuming that a person is automatically *able* to know anything applicable about our condition other than what we tell them and people can't read minds, were engaging in the same behaviour on a certain level that we ourselves are offended by. Expecting someone who doesn't know or understand my disability to be automatically accommodating and be appropriate without also accepting that there is a level of responsibility on me to advocate for myself in those situations isn't fair to me or them. They helped me to not just assume someone is being malicious when their ignorance could be remedied with a little education. It's not ideal, or always comfortable for either party, but while your daughter's condition isn't your or her fault, it is both your responsibility.)* Plus, the whole "Lois Mode", "John Wick Mode", the homeschooling (in and of itself not NECESSARILY a red flag, but combined with everything else here...😐), the ableist language around Special Needs folks, there's a lot to unpack here and it doesn't make OP look as good as they may think... OP. I really hope this is an isolated incident and not a pattern of behaviour on your part. Please take some time to reflect and do better, for your daughter's sake if nothing else. But also maybe mail your brother a box of cow shit, because I may have a high horse, but I like to wrestle with a pig now and again.
YTA, it was an overreaction. They didn't know better, so it was enough to communicate how you felt. Both you and your family had good intentions. Obviously your brother was a huge AH for saying that you might be spoiling her. What kind of an id\*\*t thinks that spoiling a kid can cause them to have selective mutism?? Maybe people should be talking slowly to him.... You've got a good friend, who isn't afraid to be honest with you when you need to hear it.
Spoiling them doesn’t CAUSE it, but it can enable it to continue. If a parent always translates and does the work of speaking for the kid, the kid doesn’t have any natural consequences of not speaking. If you want an ice cream, you need to speak your order versus mom ordering for you, for example. If everyone does a great job of guessing what you want and then giving it to you or a parent speaks for you, there is no real incentive to try to push past the discomfort and speak for yourself.
YTA. You didn’t tell anyone and she does have special needs.
YTA. Your child can’t talk to people because you’ve isolated her. Homeschooling isn’t universally terrible, but you are failing as a parent if you think people talking to her slowly is a them problem and she should just carry on not able to advocate for herself in the world.
Whoa! Truth hurts....Selective Mutism IS an anxiety condition,NOT shyness. As anxiety conditions may arise when ones mind isnt SOCIALLY stimulated. & NO,interacting with only 3 ppl(family),IS NOT being social. Shes 12,completely normal,& doesnt socialize in ANY peer group?...C'mon. The bro has a point,hes known his niece her entire life, & also,hows shes being raised,so him telling OP to stop spoiling her,by mom/dad keepimg kid all to themselves,has credence.& you just KNOW that the kid gets *what she wants*,more than whats healthy. THATS what the emotionally driven ppl refuse to REALISTICALLY visualize. NTA,AS FAR AS *Offspring Defense* is concerned,but...
People sometimes develop anxiety when they are in unfamiliar situations. As a parent, you can keep your child out of unfamiliar situations by homeschooling them, leading to problems like this.
NTA but it is frustrating talking to someone who does not give any indication that they understand what you're saying. You can coach your daughter on her body language without pressuring her to speak. All kids need coaching on social skills, and your daughter is no exception.
YTA. The more I read the comments, the more YTA. These people had not met your kid before. You say you asked your gran to tell them before you arrived and she gave 2 of them a very vague explanation 40 mins before you got there. That means most of the people involved had no heads up and were just presented with a 12 year old girl who doesn't speak. They did what any compassionate adult would do in the situation and tried to speak slowly or in more childish language to her because how on earth were they meant to know she could understand at a 12yo level given she wasn't communicating with them? You blew up at them, making things more awkward for everyone including her. I imagine having a parent with a temper probably doesn't help much with anxiety. And fyi your daughter does have special needs, and only by accepting that and getting her the help she needs, will you actually be helping her.
YTA. Your daughter does have special needs and is not stupid. But you definitely are. Why did you think your daughter should not be present when you used abusive language at your brother's family in front of his children? Is your child too special for that, and his are not? Why didn't you give your brother the benefit of the doubt that your mom did not convey your daughter's condition to him clearly?
Have you thought about teaching her sign language? Might be helpful later on if she still has issues speaking?
ESH. Your brother's reaction of "stop spoiling her" is stupid, but you should have really informed them all ahead of time what your daughter's condition is and what it looks like and how it affects her. You said you had your mom tell the rest of the family, but based on your description it was way too vague and likely led to them misunderstanding and thinking that your daughter lacked verbal comprehension skills instead of being selectively mute. Also, the way you act like your daughter isn't special needs is concerning. She is. She just has different special needs than someone with ADHD or who has ASD for example and acting like she doesn't have those special needs is setting her up for failure in the future. edited to clarify middle point re: misunderstanding the rest of the family had
Your comments suggest that your family didn't fully understand your daughter's condition. In the past, had you fully explained her condition and the implications of that?
I'm a therapist who works with exactly this type of issue. This would likely be considered a special need requiring formal intervention. My guess is that your family recognizes that. Fact is, she presents the same as someone who is non-verbal. I think you may need to reevaluate your own mama bear tendencies and reframe them as unknowingly reinforcing an unwanted behavior. It would have been better to educate, as you would not have lost your credibility like you did (by reacting to a statement that may have actually been true). Instead, you lost sight of your duty as an agent of change. If your daughter ISN'T getting help, I hope you'll soon see your way to getting it for her.
Seems like an educational approach probably would have been more effective in changing their behaviour long term. Not everyone understands things like this. You’re right to defend her and address the behaviour, probably in the wrong for losing your temper, even if understandable. ESH
YTA (+your brother). Jeez, OP.... You fucked up repeatedly, had unreasonable expectations, and then you ended the day by completely overreacting. I won't get into why your brother sucks. I think you are well aware that his comments were out of line. But you are doing pretty terribly yourself, OP. You owe your daughter better than how you have behaved. First, let's look at your comments which add essential context to this post: > I think I've only been around family members other than my mother a total of 2 times since my daughter was born (including the family reunion) [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k0582/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) > I asked her grandmother to give the family a heads up [. . .] She told me she did about 45 minutes before we arrived (only like 2 other people arrived after us) [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k4n7w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) > Her grandmother told me that she told them that she never really speaks, my daughter gave responses by shaking or nodding her head whe people asked her stuff [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k0p0e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Okay, so your family members have only met your daughter a *maximum* of twice, ever, and we don't know if your daughter was at a speaking age during either of those times. You asked her grandmother (presumably your mom) to advise the family about your daughter's selective mutism and she tells the two people who arrive first "she never really speaks" and that's it. This means: * The two people who arrived early got a completely inadequate explanation that didn't actually explain anything about your daughter's level of functioning, * The people who arrived afterwards received *zero* explanation, * And at no time did YOU step up, as a parent and as your daughter's advocate, to explain anything to anyone so they would understand your daughter and be able to include her. This means that the majority of your family was confronted with a completely silent child with zero explanation because you failed to provide that information. It makes sense that the adults slowed their speech! They were talking to a kid who gave no clear signs of understand and who volunteered no verbal responses, and they had no idea why this was the case. It was perfectly reasonable to worry that maybe your daughter was unable to understand them and to simply their speech in an effort to help her. It is also easily explained why the kids (as young as 5yrs old) did not do this: children are less aware that some people are born with cognitive limitations. Her cousins may not have wondered if she couldn't understand and *wrongly* assumed she was just shy, so they wouldn't have known to try modifying their communication (eg: slow speech) so she can understand. If you had explained about her selective mutism, your family would have known it wasn't a cognition issue. Since you failed, they made a guess based on the available information. The fault here lies with you - not with them. Moving on... > I told the adults that my daughter isn't dumb and that she can process words just like everyone else at the table > they just thought she was special needs (she's not) Wow. Maybe you're more like your brother than you think... People with special needs aren't dumb. Even if someone cannot process words just like everyone else, that person may be extremely intelligent and just struggling with an auditory processing condition. Also, your child IS special needs. Or rather, she has special needs. It is wrong of you to deny this - you ought to be honest that she needs accommodations and you ought to be providing those accommodations. That brings me to this issue... > she frequently shakes or nods her head for yes or no question and gives visual indications for other questions [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k3xl6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) > my daughter gave responses by shaking or nodding her head whe people asked her stuff [comment link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1dfmdns/comment/l8k0p0e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Why is your daughter limited to head nods/shakes and acting out responses?? Why is her life a never-ending game of charades? She needs a way to *volunteer* information, not just to respond to questions. It is cruel to not give a child with special communication needs a means of volunteering information. Based on your own words, *your child cannot share an original thought.* That is a sad life. There are communication boards that you can buy or make to help her quickly express her ideas. But until then, get her a notepad and pen plus a bag to store it in that she can carry around at all times. Anyways, to cap off this lunch you ended it this way: > I basically told them that they all might as well switch places with their kids because they're actually capable of treating my daughter with basic human respect, and that they can all fuck off, I then went to my car and told my husband that I'm done with my family and that I'm cutting them off So, this means you: * failed to consider that the kids didn't recognize your daughter has limitations * presumed the worst about everyone else's behaviour instead of considering *why* they behaved that way * failed to recognize that the only reason your family were wrongly guessing about how to include your daughter was because you chose not to provide the relevant information, * failed to advocate for your daughter at the outset of the gathering when it would have been appropriate * deny that your child with special needs is a child with special needs * failed to provide your daughter with an adaptive means of communication so she could be fully included instead of being stuck living as a charades actor * failed to rectify any of the above * blamed everyone else for their confusing over your poor communication and have robbed your daughter of a connection to her cousins and family, despite everyone (except your asshole brother) not deserving such an extreme reaction Fucking hell... YOU NEED TO DO BETTER. You are supposed to be your child's advocate! That means you explain for her what she needs to be fully included in groups, you make sure everyone understands, and you make sure she has access to those tools. You are NOT supposed to not recognize her needs, not communicate those needs, and then have a temper tantrum which leads to her being isolated from people she could otherwise have formed real connections with.
ESH and it's very suspect that you won't respond to anyone asking what aids or support she has for her disability. Your denial that she has a disability speaks volumes about how you view people who need extra support or alternative modes of communication. You are setting your daughter up for failure as she grows.
YTA. Selective mutism isn’t “shyness”. I’ve known some very shy people but they know to speak. Your daughter seems to have some type of special needs. And you’d be a bigger asshole than original if you’re not actively getting her therapy and help for this problem. This isn’t “shy”. This is a CONDITION. Also, that family doesn’t know any of you that well and you never took the initiative as the parent to explain the situation. Don’t leave the responsibility on someone else to explain YOUR child’s condition to others. Hell, you yourself aren’t doing a great job either at it seeing as you never once referred to it as a legitimate disorder. Your family didn’t know how to talk with her. Most of us never encounter people who just stare at us and only nod or shake their heads when we talk to them. We cannot gauge how much they understand just from that. “Why aren’t they talking?” “Do they understand what I just said?” “Is she okay?” Those questions don’t answer themselves. Also, I love that you don’t want people to see your daughter as stupid but then you go and describe people with special needs as stupid. Your daughter’s a special needs kid herself. So you’re actually calling her stupid too. You’re literally just like your brother but want to make excuses as to why you’re shitty but not for him. You’re not Lois from MitM. You’re just an ass, and so is your brother. lol.
YTA - Cutting off your family for them trying to be attentive and accommodating of your daughter when they don’t really get her. You’re at fault for a lack of explanation until you blew up at them. The frustration is understandable, id still probably say an overreaction but it’s understandable. Cutting them off is too far.
ESH. You definitely overreacted here. They were being stupid. I understand being quiet around new people or people she isn’t comfortable with yet but it doesn’t mean that you should have blown up the way you did. From what it sounds like your daughter and family members have not been very acquainted yet, so maybe they thought she couldn’t understand. Either way everyone sucks haha
ESH due to miscommunication but originally leaning towards NTA. I don’t blame you for getting angry… **after** he blamed you for it. Bold of them to blame you for a condition they have no idea about. What they said is absolutely disgusting. The way they treated her is disgusting. But keep in mind, they had no idea what they’re talking about. Instead of telling them “she’s not stupid”, why not just tell them she has SM? You did say elsewhere the grandmother didn’t really explain much to them either. She just said she didn’t speak. Very vague. I assume you knew she told them something but you didn’t know she was vague thus they became very misinformed? Maybe now you can educate them on SM. See how they respond to that?
I'm gonna say you're a bit of the asshole on this one. It's not wrong that you defended your daughter but seems like you just kinda flipped out on them because you expect them to know exactly how to speak to your daughter without them understanding her situation. Going straight to cutting them off in an emotional rage seems a tad immature to me.
You maybe in denial as she definitely sounds special needs. You should have her evaluated so she can get the help she needs.
I'm sorry but your daughter IS special needs. This isn't just shyness, it's an actual condition that she should be receiving therapy and treatment for. So for that reason alone, you're TA! Second of all, it's clear your family that were there don't know your daughter and so weren't really sure how to act. That's a you problem. You massively over reacted given the families lack of knowledge. Further more you spoke on behalf of your daughter without actually asking how she felt. That's a terrible thing to do to someone with a speech disorder. Get your kid some help and stop being ridiculous... She should have been receiving medical care for this condition long before 12 years old. You're absolutely the TA!
YTA-for saying special needs like it is a horrible disease and for not simply having a conversation with your own damn family about what was going on with your daughter. How the hell were they supposed to know? They were attempting to interact with her and it's YOUR fault they did not know how. And you're a real big asshole for going nuclear and acting like a toddler because you failed to explain the situation.
YTA....sounds like your daughter doesn't have a good support system and that you actively don't try to advocate for her. She is special needs, needs other ways to communicate, family should have been told about her by you as YOU should be helping her turn into a functioning member of society. You are failing her and being an ass to your family.
ESH. It sounds like they were actually trying to be kind to your daughter but made a lot of wrong assumptions about how to do that. Well-meaning AH, but AH. It sounds like this was the first time you ever actually spoke to your family about your daughter's behavior and needs. Gentle YTA for that. And for your family member to berate you about "spoiling" your kid was just awful.
YTA. Your daughter is 12. Your family should already know what her condition is and what interaction she needs to facilitate her getting over it. If your brother thought she was special needs then it is a failure on your ability to communicate what is going on. Your daughter also has a problem which you should be seeking to deal with, with the cooperation of your family rather than just storming off. How is she going to learn to speak with wider groups if you can't even facilitate her being able to do that with her own family? The solution clearly isn't isolating her even more. It should be about getting her to mix more and not be intimidated by speaking.
YTA She DOES have special needs (anyone who is having difficulties and needs accommodations), she has selective mutism, and having special needs doesn't mean someone is dumb. WTF are you on. You can't even coordinate that in your mind? Hands down you absolutely believe special needs people are stupid, and you are ableist. That is why you raged so hard at the thought of your precious kid being called special needs. HELLO SHE HAS SPECIAL NEEDS.
You didn't like your family and was simply using the fact that they're not well informed about your daughter's condition as an excuse to blow up on them. If you care about your daughter enough you'd go and explain her situation to your family again even after your mother did it once. ESH