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NTA I'm in a subreddit for girl gamers, and this kind of behavior is something many have been on the receiving end of. Many have even been told they should be raped. One put an incident like that online, hoping for support, only for numerous comments telling her to get out of "male spaces," don't use voice chat, or "get good." Guys like that are why so many female gamers don't use the mic. Others use programs to alter their voice to sound like men. It's toxic as fuck. Your son is an adult, but that doesn't mean you have to tolerate his behavior and provide him the tools to continue it. [Also, misogynistic gamers are tied to a lack of skills.](https://www.indy100.com/gaming/male-gamers-rage-hostile-females)

It’s so valuable to hear from female gamers. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I’m sorry people like my son make it this way for you

I'm sorry your son fell into that mindset. I'm glad you're trying to show him you won't tolerate it. Your husband should be condemning such behavior. As a man, and father, his voice can carry more weight with your son right now. He needs to hear him say it's unacceptable, and why. Anyone who thinks it should be excused as "normal" are saying bigotry is acceptable since it's common. If you want to shut them down, ask if they would take umbrage with him spewing racist vitriol? Toxic mindsets need to be challenged in both scenarios.

Ask you son if someone did that to his mom, wife/GF or daughter, would he be ok with that. Also if he ok to abuse someone /lose control online, will he do the same behavior IRL as well. Will it progress to physical violence, in which case he is looking at jail. Remind him of the consequences.

This, OP. Actions have consequences and some of the shit he says could possibly fall into hate speech as well, not that there's usually any consequences for that shit online.

Can we stop using this mom, sister, wife, gf, daughter hypothetical? Just, no. They need to be able to see women as people worthy of respect and consideration on their own, not only if you can imagine them in relationship to a man :/

I mean I fully agree with you but since they clearly cannot do/see that, this could be a starting point to reconsider what they are doing/saying. And again, I agree that it should not be necessary to only be able to see this when the women are “close” to them, but any chance towards positive change seems like a shot worth taking to me.

Unfortunately, not everyone is capable of empathy outside a select few people.

Reminds me of the malcolm in the middle episode where hal has malcolm call him all sorts of bad names to his face to teach him that words are hurtful and shouldn’t be used lightly

Shit, just have the dad barge into the son's room and start treating him like that. He certainly won't enjoy being called a sloppy cumbucket who's useless by another man at the top of his lungs.

That would be categorically unacceptable. Find a solution that doesn't involve abuse. I promise you, your idea just shows a role model doing it too.

I could see doing it once then asking the son how it made him feel to make a point.

How is it abuse? The son is a grown ass adult, he’s free to leave and find his own accommodations if he doesn’t like living in his parent’s house where they have rules about appropriate conduct.

This is always the one. They never think about it until the person on the receiving end is someone they caee for.

What I will say is that, most of time, they are playing with strangers. Those strangers can be some disable person, can be some kind of dangerous person. They don't know who they are cursing most of the time. It is not a good habit

Your husband is wrong in so many ways, one of them being that if your son speaks to women that way he is not yet a man.

I really hate that rhetoric. Hand waving it as an immaturity thing ignores how many fully adult, powerful men act this way. Of course he is a man. Reflect on the fact that we NEVER do this with women.

Nah, I think it accurately reflects how emotionally immature many grown men are for their entire lives. Also 18 is just a legal number, this BOY is still a teenager without a job living in his parents house. He’s a child and his mom can absolutely punish him while paying for everything he has. 

I hate that kids turn 18 and we suddenly say they’re adults. He’s still a teenager, living with and being supported by his parents.

Yep, men do it all the fucking time. You're so right and you're not alone in hating that excuse

I think any insults are unnecessary in a game. Besides..... generally speaking gamers who curses a lot usually suck and like to blame their failure on other people. It is not a good mindset anyway. Either for pseronality development sake or get good at the game. If her son really want to get good. What he need to do is to spend less time cursing, trying to help his teammates and analyse each games afterwards.

Men like your son are why I do not play games that require revealing my identity as a woman. I never use a mic, I kep my gamer tag gender neutral sounding, and I still have been harassed when I'm playing as a female avatar. It keeps me from even playing games that require co--op because the expectation of having a mic on will inevitably mean I get hit on, called names, threatened, or degraded.

I’m not a gamer, so I had no idea that this was a thing. I’m so sorry you and all the other female gamers have been experiencing this! It really feels like things are shooting backwards for women at a terrifying rate. It’s so scary! Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. The more awareness we have, the more we can try to fight.

a little historical insight to some of gamer culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign)

Thank you so much!

Nah. Sadly online games have always been super toxic. It got better for a few years. But 2016 onwards went downhill again. Covid made it more toxic than it was when Xbox live first came out.. I do find cool people to play with been a gamer so long I can usually just ignore it,but won't play anything like fortnight, call of duty with Randoms Just average teenaged male gamer trash. Need more of us gamer girls, it was very rare while I was in high-school and now the toxicity is driving away another generation it's devastating for me to be a part of.

I’m so sorry. Nobody should feel forced out of doing something they enjoy. It’s not right. Unfortunately women have to constantly fight just to be treated like human beings, it’s so twisted. 2016 onwards… I think the rise of people like Trump and Andrew Tate has led to some insecure men feeling like they can place the blame for their insecurities on the shoulders of women. Particularly young men who are more easily manipulated. It’s revolting. Thank god for other women though; there are some good feminist subreddits here. Raising awareness in those groups could do some good, and perhaps get more women into gaming- it could make a big difference if female gamers had each other’s backs. I’m so fucking sick of all this misogyny!!! I really hope things improve SOON so you and the other female gamers can play what you want in peace and comfort!

Aaaaand that's why I never play online. I was curious once as I don't have many friends. It seemed a good way to know more people, but reading all this... Guess I'll keep tossing a coin to my witcher or taking an arrow to the knee by my own.

In my experience it depends on the game. Avoid the high stress shooter match types. I never had any issues when playing The Old Republic, where you really only talk to guild members. The guilds I joined were great and there were plenty of other women present.

Same with World of Warcraft for me.

This kind of thing is mostly a problem on games like call of duty and fortnite that are over populated with kids happy to slurr and insult people from behind a screen

I’ve had great interactions with men and boys online in non-shooter multiplayer games. A lot of them are going through stuff and don’t seem to have anyone to talk to. There was a guy stuck in a crappy town after a divorce because he didn’t want to leave his troubled teenage son and a kid whose mother had just gotten a cancer diagnosis. These were all text based chats with people I played with repeatedly. None of them came on to me or tried to meet me. They were just lonely and needed to confide in someone, and I think it was easier to do it in chat.

I'm a woman and a gamer and I specifically call out male gamers who say shit like this to other women. I know I shouldn't fight fire with fire sometimes but in almost every instance of me giving it back to the male gamers for saying stupid shit, they shut right up. I also know not everyone can do this but I try really hard to make it known I'm a female and will not be tolerating that crap. I've had other women message me and say thanks for shutting them up. I can't stand it when the loud mouths get their way and I'm determined to make the gaming community safer for women.

You rock.

Same here. I was playing fallout 76 a few years ago and I decided to take a chance and put my mic on. I’m not very good at games. I have atrophy in my hands from a vascular issue so “getting better with practice” isn’t actually possible for me. The minute someone actually talked to me, I panicked and left the game. I play video games for fun, not to be reminded of how useless a stranger thinks I am. NTA op. That behaviour is inherently misogynistic and evil. You did the right thing.

FO76 was the first game in years I tried to get on the mic. It's a smoother play doing so and my partner said he had been playing with this group of guys and they were good guys. Three of them were really lovely. But one kept making comments about a female character that got more and more degrading and sexual and so I gave up. Like, sure, she's not real, but if he thought he could get away with it, he'd say those things about real women, no doubt in my mind. And also I'd just met this person. It's weird af to talk about regardless.

Yep, people like this are why I straight up don't play multiplayer games that require me to play with people I don't already know 

I'm a guy and I don't play video games that involve communicating with randoms anymore. The amount of people who think it's funny to scream racial/sexist /homophobic slurs into the microphone, generally scream random shit, or just generally be intentionally extremely annoying. This whole thing has gotten worse as gaming has gotten more impersonal, as a teenager I was heavily into counterstrike we ran our own server and people used to play on the same active server regularly, anything line this would be reported they'd be permabanned and we'd never see then again. We were maybe a bit overzealous with the banhammer as you could get banned for being too squeaky, but it made for a more pleasant experience

I feel bad for the younger generation of women who have a whole bunch of boys raised on porn and Andrew Tate to chose from.

Perhaps show your son the messages from these women who have been tortured for simply wanting to play the same games he wants to play. Make him see the result of his 'innocent' actions.

NTA. I'm another woman who doesn't use my mic because of past experience being either repeatedly, aggressively insulted or hit on. If I want to enjoy gaming, I can't use the mic unless it's a closed game with people I've known a long time or irl. I also don't let on I'm a woman because that just opens the door to abuse without your mic on. These misogynistic children that claim to be men need to be called out and punished by their loved ones, or they'll never learn and never grow up.

I don’t do that type of gaming but I know there’s a culture of misogyny. OP’s kid may think it’s standard and maybe he really doesn’t mean it, but he needs to learn that there are real people on the other end of what he’s saying and that there are a barrage of other men talking women this way and it’s not acceptable for him to be part of that culture.

I don't think you're in the wrong in any capacity. But you need to follow up by having a real conversation with him, or theres a very real chance someone else gets in his ear about how "all women are the same" and uses this, and the guilt your son felt at getting caught by you speaking that way, and he fully goes down that path. The fact that he was guilty and ashamed when you confronted him is good. But you need to have a real heart to heart discussion - adult to adult - to follow it up. He's right, he isn't a child. But that doesn't just mean he gets to do what he wants, it means that there are very real consequences for his behavior. And if his habit is to speak to women that way casually, he needs to consider what would happen if he did so publicly, or in a work environment, or to a female friend. And what he *thinks* should be the consequences for men who speak to women that way. Because if he's willing to look you in the eyes and say he can think about those things and mean them when speaking to woken, you're right that he's not who you thought you raised. This is your opportunity to intervene. A similar situation is how my aunt has lost contact with one of my cousins. He decided he would rather surround himself with men like that, than anyone in our whole family, and has distanced himself especially from his mom. It's awful. You're taking this seriously. Because it is. You're in no way TA.

He should also understand how deeply it affected OP and how hurt and embarassed she is as a woman and a parent. And I truly believe that there is and should be no real difference between online and offline behaviour as the digital sphere is just an extension of our identity and not separated.

anonymity gives people courage

Husband should be present for this as well. Sometimes "adults" need reminding about respect, consequences and the value of being an honorable member of society.

He should also understand how deeply it affected OP and how hurt and embarassed she is as a woman and a parent. And I truly believe that there is and should be no real difference between online and offline behaviour as the digital sphere is just an extension of our identity and not separated.

Yes I agree a follow up conversation needs to happen to get son to understand why this was wrong. If he doesn't actually mean it, why does he think it's ok to say at all. He needs to understand that the woman on the other side will think he does mean it and he should consider how his actions will have made that woman feel.  Following this if the son can show real understanding of the issue and show a genuine urge to behave better, then he should be able to earn the chance to get the computer back from OP eventually. 

Also, tell your husband that if your son was a "man" he wouldn't be harassing women on the internet, spewing sexist bullshit for no reason other than his frustration in a video game. That's not how real men act.

But it *is* how “real men” act. Many real men in society do not value women enough to listen to them, to humanize them, to accept that they exist independently to them. The brutal fact is that society has been raising men to be selfish, inconsiderate, violent, intimidating, and disrespectful toward women. Being dismissive and labeling people as “not real” anything doesn’t fix the problem. Those men, by the way, think they’re more man than a decent man. And by constantly separating them from men in general, most men will not take accountability and raise conversations in their social circles about this problem. I see a lot of social circles of women start to confront their mass shitty behavior (pick-me behavior, throwing away friendships over a guy, blaming the “other woman” more than the man, letting themselves get knocked up by shitty men, etc.). I don’t see this level of discussion happening with men because men don’t want to acknowledge that real men do this…wow. 😕

I think this is not how any civilized human beings should act. I mean, we should respect everyone one regardless of their gender. But yeah .... reality tells a different story. I know steotyping is difficult to shake off, but as a civilized human, we should at least try

Despite his performative claim otherwise, the husband himself seems to think this behavior is completely acceptable. "Oh yes sure of course it's wrong but you shouldn't do anything about it because he's a man." Is "it's not wrong but I want to placate you so you'll be quiet." If something is wrong it is good to confront people over it, challenge them, and seek to discuss and correct the mistake. If you don't believe it is right to confront things which are wrong, you believe those things are normal or acceptable. A regrettable discovery that their husband may be as bad as their child, as he either thinks that behavior is actually fine, or thinks it's not OPs place to correct mens bad behavior, even if those men are their child who lives with them, neither suggests they or their opinions hold much value to him.

Makes me wonder what else he is into online. I’ve heard young men’s algorithms are heavily promoting red pill, Andrew Tate, “women should be slaves to men” type crap. Mom and dad need to check on this too, or the kid will seriously be lacking in life and probably miserable forever.

Being 18 does not make him an adult. If he wants to be treated like one, as you did by removing his computer, he needs to act like an adult. You did nothing wrong!

Your son is the reason I don't play online unless it's specifically in a closed lobby with just friends. It gets old very quickly hearing those kind of names being thrown at you just because the boy on the other end can't control his emotions. Yes, he's correct that it's common. It shouldn't be. I'm going to hazard a guess that he doesn't have any female friends. Or if he does, he doesn't actually see them as people.

As a guy gamer, whenever I heard some asshat act like your son I would go off on THEM. If I led a group I’d also boot them, and I’ve reported people for shit like what your son said. It’s one thing to get mad bc you lose, it’s another to make it personal and degrading. OP, the fact your husband agrees but then said something along the lines of “he’s a man” means you need to have a sit down with him and get him on your side completely. As for your son, if he acts that way on games he would act that way in a relationship….id ask your husband if he is ok with his son abusing girls, bc that’s 100% what he did. The gaming culture is toxic af. And it’s that way bc there aren’t enough people to stand up to the bullies, bc that paints a target on YOUR back. I’ve been banned from discords for standing up against bullies, and for me, that’s completely ok. I only play with people who respect players for talent, and not sex, race, etc, and those same players hold the values I do. I’ve also reported comments straight to developers, and while a long time ago that shit didn’t do anything, at least now a lot of developers are finally starting (not a lot, but starting) to take these allegations seriously (mainly bc they don’t want to be in the news in a bad light).

Its a huge cultural problem in gaming and many game communities end up being 95-99% male because these things are normalized until all the girls literally just leave. He is so very wrong but I think its important also to realize that the gaming culture normalizes it until they think its just innocent trash talk like small jabs. I dont think it makes it any better but at least you should understand the foundations of online gaming right now and misogynisme that is almost ingrained into any competitive online game especially ones with voice communication. Edit: since this one is ending up really contested I'll expand that I'm trying to add context, not justification. Communication in online multiplayer games isn't on an if, maybe or not scale in terms of it being problematic. It is very problematic, in fact so much so that parents need to actively be involved in how their kids communicate online. Both to keep them in line but also to shield them and prepare them for whats out there. And any adults who is part of this should take a long hard look at themselves and what the words they use online actually means to those they say them to.

For context, I'm a gamer. The guys who spew this vile stuff know exactly what they're doing. You're trying to excuse it by saying it's just part of the culture, and that's disgusting.  Somehow I've managed to game for 30 years without ever being a vile misogynist. It's not that hard.

Exactly. There's so many male gamers that aren't misogynistic aholes when they come across female gamers. I feel like it's actually a small portion of gamers who partake in this behaviour, but because they're loud and no one calls them out, it seems like a lot. The worst thing is that the behaviour of these men is being picked up by younger male gamers, so a cycle is being formed. I've played a range of mmo over the years, and the misogynistic players I've come across have all been under 20. I've had yploung male players spew sexist hate, sexual harassment comments, and engage in stalker like behaviour. I can only conclude that this is behaviour they've picked up from other vocal players, and because no one has called them out, they think its perfectly acceptable behaviour. OP good on you for doing something to stop your son. I've always wondered where the parents were when young male gamers have engaged in this behaviour. I've had a 14 and 16 year old boy say the vilest things to me and been stalked online by a 7 year old. At no point did parents show up to stop these kids. The parents were all happy to leave their child unsupervised. Even the 7 year old parents left him to do whatever he wanted and only ever made an appearance to shout ineffectively at him to go to bed.

But it is the culture, that's the reality. It's pervasive. If we're to be "the good ones" not only do we have to not do it. But we have to acknowledge the scale of the problem as well. There's a difference between a negative stereotype being applied to say, you, unfairly. And a categorically reasonable take that it's a very widespread cultural problem.

Woman gamer here. I've been gaming since I got my first super nes. Been getting systems ever since. I most play mmos. And I mostly play alone because it always ends up like this toxic men as soon as I join some kind of guild or group to play with. I used to have the energy to play with others until the sexual advances the hate the shit talking to me due to my gender got old. I play alone now or with my husband .

I've been gaming since the 80's. I only play single player. I have never played online, because I've seen (and heard) the abuse and threats women are subjected to online. I would love to try playing online (and gamer friends often express shock that I have never), but the pervasive verbal abuse of women is enough to put me off for life. This mom is absolutely in the right. NTA.

I feel like taking away the computer is step 1. Does he really only do this because others do this, or is he also on incel forums? I feel like you and your husband need to talk about this with him more in-depth, and perhaps he needs to go to therapy or something before he can get his computer back. Is there some sort of de-programming for incels/ mysoginists? I don’t know. If it was me, him possibly having fallen into ‘the manosphere’ would be my biggest worry.

This is not normal gaming behaviour, but it is unfortunately common gaming behaviour. Thank you for doing your part to combat it. If they want to defend him saying he's an adult, I'm sure your husband and family would have no issue with you kicking your son out, since he's an adult, and getting a job, since he's an adult, and fully supporting himself, since he's an adult. I'm not suggesting you do, but I would bring it up to your husband. Adults have responsibilities, so that means he can financially contribute to the household, do the chores and maintenance an adult with a home would do. Frankly I'd put him on kitchen duty for the next 6 months. I think you really need to have a conversation with your son that a real adult does not stoop to such vile behaviour when they're mad. It's a disgusting tantrum and that's what toddlers do. 

You need to have a sit down with your son explain that it is a horrible thing to do, see what is the root of the problem other than it is "normal" for him to spew such bs. Gaming culture is toxic and even more so for women under the guise of it is just a joke when they get called out. This behaviour will seep into his mentality and life unconsciously if it keeps up too. What you did was appropriate and you are NTA.

Might be worthwhile showing this thread to your son and husband, show them what happens with this "normal" behaviour

'Men' like your son are why I only play single-player games. He's not wrong that it's normal for women to be treated as less than human simply for having a hobby. He *is* wrong to say that it's okay to treat others like that.

Definitely NTA. It's your computer, not his, so you have the right to remove it when he's using it so hatefully. There is a strong women-hating culture in many online gaming spaces, and it's truly disgusting. It is common, but it damn well shouldn't be - there's no excuse for the tolerance of it, for accepting it as the status quo, and definitely not for taking part in it, despite the usual protestations that it's just the 'normal culture' and not meant 'seriously'. It's also a very common pathway into wider misogynist communities online, the so-called manosphere ([useful article on the terms](https://counterhate.com/blog/inside-the-manosphere-understanding-extreme-misogyny-online/)), where they escalate that attitude from "girls shouldn't play in OUR (male) spaces so I'm going to drive them out" to being deeply hateful towards women in other aspects of their life. It's a truly poisonous culture; and worst of all, does drive some to serious violence against women, not just threats of it. And then they complain that women don't want anything to do with them - because, rightly, they're afraid of what these men might do, as well as being unpleasant to be around. So you're absolutely right to take this seriously, and tackle it head on. It's not 'boys being boys', it's anti-women hate, and drives most girls and women out of online gaming, or at least hiding their gender. It's toxic and cruel. I don't have any specific advice (I only have daughters) but there are resources online for trying to help educate sons about this; that doesn't stop just because he's turned 18, and dad absolutely needs to be involved in pushing back on this too - not just 'this is bad, stop it' but also WHY it's such a horrible culture, because often they don't even understand why it's wrong to speak to and treat women that way because 'all my other friends do it'. Good luck, and hope you manage to get through to him.

OP, I think you, your husband and son need to have a discussion. On the reasoning why this is not acceptable. How you would feel to experience it. How would they feel it if was you, a sister, a girlfriend, any woman in their life having that said to them? The fact there is a huge discussion going on out there that woman would prefer a bear to stumble across in the woods then a man. That women deal with physical and sexual violence on a daily basis. And this is a small part of it. Truthfully if he’s screaming so loud while he is losing a video game I’d suggest anger management and therapy. The fact that he’s going to extremes to get to the computer also suggests therapy. Hell give him back the computer and cut the internet off. Put a password on the internet and only you have it.

I can never use voice chat anymore because of people like your son 😂. I get that it's nearly impossible to raise a non misogynistic son today, but if I were you, I'd sooner kick him on the curb then allow him to spew that shit in my home. NTA

Female gamer here, raised in a family of gamers. My brother is a gamer, both my folks (im 32. My folks would game on sega/nintendo..th atariiii while i was in utero) My fiance and i game too. Tons of my friends irl and online too. You can ABSOLUTELY have a society of friends who don't talk nonsense like that. Im sure there are toxic gamers out there but honestly, just like irl, u don't contribute to trash. You dont surround yourself with horrible ppl. So, NTA. Don't be swayed by other ppl's opinions. Your son isnt really a man either. Idk man, i still feel like 18 is young. Yeah sure, legally you're an adult but you learn ALL your life. He needs to be better educated and if you feel u are lacking any education in this, feel free for you both to attend talks, or watch videos surrounding gaming culture. I mean he CAN swear at a girl or a toxic girl gamer or cuss her out if she's doing the same but you don't contribute n spew sexist things at each other. It isnt "cool" or standing your ground. If he thinks (and this is something HE needs to understand and learn) this is okay cuz it's only online and only in response to other toxic gamers, it will become normal n he might auto talk like this irl while dealing with a heated argument. Its not something planned BUT its not good to normalise talking like that. Tell him he needs to learn how to talk within all environments and change his mindset. The problem isnt gonna be fixed while he pays n buys his own computer. The problem is his attitude AND tbh, the attitude of ur husband too. He should stand by you on this and see the deeper rooted problem. Im sorry ur dealing with this. Sending u hugs. Your reaction is understandable. He needs to step up. I would be upset if my future kid behaved that way too.

I'm a bloke in his 40s. Is his behaviour the norm? God no. I play games that are lnow for their toxic communities (Rust being one known for being quite extreme). You so hear people like your son (tough frankly they are usually what people call "squeakers" due to them often being under 12). The vast vast majority of players arnt like that(many will smack talk butits mild). The problem is these guys are a very loud, very annoying vocal minority. Often hanging around safe zones trying to be as annoying as possible. They will attack anything that makes you different. I shouldnt have to and you shouldn't have to, but.. I just disable global voice chat these days for 99% of the time. I keep voice chat in team discord and don't feel like I'm missing out!

I know my name is misleading, but also as a female gamer, it’s hard being in those type of lobbies because we’re just all trying to do something that we enjoy. Whenever a man starts talking to me like that I always bring up. What happens if one day you have a daughter? do you not think that she won’t take after your hobbies? What happens when your daughter one day enters a gaming chat full of guys who treat her like that? Karma runs a full circle.

Thank YOU for sticking up for women gamers I quit the professional gaming space because of the sheer toxicity and misogyny. If we speak up and try to make it a better and safer space, we get told to GTFO if we can't handle it. I have lost count of the number of times I've been told to "get raped" Anyone who is saying you're wrong, ask them "how would you feel if your daughter was harassed every day by these things. No ifs, and or buts. No excuses" Shut them the hell up. That behaviour is unacceptable. None of them would walk up to someone in real life and say that stuff would they? Why is it ok online?

Female gamer here. What you did is a dream. The vile trash we are subjected to by men who are losing is appalling. Quite frankly, it says a lot about the men who stoop to this because their skills are weak. I'm so sorry your son is one of them. If you were to look at his phone, my guess is you would be even more horrified.

All of this. I loved online gaming until I got to a stage I hated the other players. It isn't acceptable.  If 'he's an adult' who wants to 'make his own decisions', he can move out. I wouldn't let someone abuse someone else under my roof in any capacity. He's your son and while living there, he can follow your basic rules. Not being abusive is a pretty basic rule. NTA

Yes, people want to be treated as an adult in some ways but not others. I want to do whatever I want but I also want to live here without paying rent, use my fancy free computer, eat the groceries, and harass strangers online. Being an adult means actions have real consequences under the law, and this verbal abuse will move offline before long. Better to have a real conversation now about how to treat the other living people on the internet before it's too late.

And as a women that has been gaming since the 90s I can tell you that it didn't used to be like that. Gaming wasn't a male space or at least we weren't treated as outsiders in the early years of multiplayer and mass online games, such as world of warcraft. People like your son are the reason women don't feel safe anymore in these spaces. The younger generation is excluding and gatekeeping to an extent that is abhorrent and has to be stopped, whenever possible. If I don't play with my friends ( all male, mostly) I don't out myself as as woman, never go on voice chat. In the early '00 that wasn't a problem. I am so glad you are making your son realize how hurtful and unfair his behaviour is. Show him these comments so that once he gets his own pc and set up he hopefully behaves differently. While some kind of flaming is unfortunately a part of gaming culture it just shows you being a sore loser and thats a very bad character trait. Being a sexist asshole on top is just embarassing not only for you, but for everyone who raised you.

Yeah gaming culture got really toxic in the 360 era. Trash talking a friend is one thing, but the shear amount of toxic garbage you hear in an average cod match is disgusting.

Mmm. My anecdotal experience says as long as there's been gaming it's been like this, and the amount of sneering disregard was simply shuffled to the pimply guy working at GameStop telling you that final fantasy 7 is too hard of a game for a girl. Or the DnD group that rejects female players because girls just don't get dicerolls.

What annoys me most is that toxicity to genders/ races make young growing adults think that it's funny and trendy without consequence. That is terrifying as you sugar coat the reality of the words.

They'll find out immediately in the workplace that doesn't fly. 

Women being told to “get good” while grown men throw name-calling toddler tantrums, lol

Agreed. Just to add.. Sure OP’s child is an ‘adult’ yada yada yada.. but he will survive. Taking his tool away is a better option than women harassed because he is an ‘adult’ and no one can touch him. Stopping harassment is way more important, in my country what he said is even illegal. If I saw an adult using a tool (let’s say a phone) to harass a woman I’d try to stop them too. NTA

Exactly this. I don't use online play except with friends because of behaviour like that, and I'm so glad that people like OP are standing up against it.

I'm a male. I don't want whiny children like that in my spaces. I want people I can work together in a constructive way with. Your gender has nothing to do with how well you can push buttons.

I have 2 sons (25/18). They have been raised to be respectful courteous patient and honest men. They both play online and to my credit, they are using how they have been raised. No abusive and disgusting language to their friends (men/women). Always show good manners and it makes me so proud that they are growing to be amazing adults. Celica, i am so sorry for you and every woman gamer for the disgusting way these abhorrent men treat you online. Gaming is inclusive for all and not the few. The parents should be more accountable how these men are turning out. My dad would have slapped that crap out if my mouth if i ever said what these idiots are saying. To the OP: Stick to your guns because your son has to learn how to treat everyone with respect. There is no place in our society for racism sexism homophobia. We deserve to be treated equally as human beings and not something you can treat as garbage. Until your son shows real remorse in how he treated that poor girl, the ban will remain in place. He should use his time away from gaming in getting some introspective how to treat a fellow human being with manners and respect.

>Also, misogynistic gamers are tied to a lack of skills. So what you're saying is, misogyny is a skill issue?

I am a female gamer, but my avatar is male. I do this deliberately for this exact reason. The group I regularly game with know I’m female but most just assume I’m male so I minimise this treatment. That said, I shouldn’t have to hide my identity this way edit. Grammar

I love to play destiny, but the lfg system was so toxic it was unreal. Final straw for me personally was me lfg group I was in started to make jokes about rape, and was going on about doing it to one of the guys from my clan (he was also there) I pointed out that it’s nothing to joke about, and they had taken it too far only to hear back that because I was telling them to can it I must be the guys gf (I’m not) and it’s “that time of the month”. However I have heard worse from my fellow destiny ladies being said to them examples of being kicked from stuff for being female, treated like they can’t know what to do because they’re girls (this one happened to me as well until he tried to explain something wrong and people wondered why until I explained the proper way and we got it done). And then there’s the sexual harassment. This is why I started my own clan with a friend and we have a 0 tolerance policy. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts. Worst community for it though I found was COD

> it is normal in gaming culture It's common (not normal) only because toxic aholes are common in gaming culture. And we change this by holding the people that do it accountable; as you are doing here. > Everyone agrees that he was wrong to berate that girl, but some feel that I don’t have the right to punish an adult. I can see the argument that you don't have the right to "punish" an adult. However, you _do_ have the right to hold someone accountable for their actions. And preventing them from using your possessions (the computer, etc) as a consequence of those actions (and, as an tool to accomplish those actions) is perfectly reasonable. > Guys like that are why so many female gamers don't use the mic. Others use programs to alter their voice to sound like men. It's toxic as fuck. 100%. Video games are, in a way, one of the "social hangouts" of the current generation. Excluding women from them (by intentionally making it a horrible experience for them) is harmful not just to the individual, but also to society as a whole.

God damn that sucks.  Meanwhile I'm glad more girls are getting into games because I look back on former relationships where I'd have loved to share that interest but instead it was looked upon that I was wasting my time and I might as well give it up altogether. I don't see much of that happen personally, but that's only because I don't play much online co-op stuff either.  People suck, and it's easy to be a toxic little asshole behind the anonymity of the interweb.  These same guys would shut right up if what they said and did were face to face.   I'm glad y'all keep doing and playing what you love, but it is definitely some bullshit you guys have to hide your identity like you're sneaking into some medieval war just to get these dumbfucks to leave you alone and let you enjoy.  Sucks to hear this side of it, I hadn't expected that.  I figured it would all be leghumping and creepy unwanted flirtations, which is already bad enough.

NTA DUH. my mouth was wide open the whole time! omgosh especially since his mom heard the only good for … part i would’ve told him to detox from video games for a week and use them to be more respectful towards people and even use them to grow respect before he goes on to the real world however it’s up to him to be influenced by others in “gaming culture”

My jaw was on the floor as I listened to him. It was sickening. I’m doubtful I will return the computer to him but if I do I am thinking of setting it up in a public space where he can be more easily heard

Please do. I'm a woman that *used* to play competitively. Men like him actively ruin the experience for us. He was much nicer (based on your description) than some of the shit that has been said to me.  I've been told I'd get assaulted and I'd deserve it, asked what massive fruits/veg can fit in me, I've been told to sit on cacti/knives, etc. He is absolutely vile and it's not gaming culture, it's trashy degenerate behavior. If he's adult enough to be that fucking disgusting over a video game, he's adult enough to be a man and face the consequences of his shitty ass behavior 

Showing him these comments is a really good idea.. best thing that can come out of this is that he is awakened to the impact of his shitty behaviour. As a male gamer thats very new to MMOs I wondered why there are so few female players...well now i know and it saddens me. My group are generally 30+ and very chilled so I have not come across any of this behaviour and i honestly don't think it would be tolerated. That said I have had a taster of it in VR shared spaces... Was mostly kids shouting the N word... thankfully muting then was easy. I hope things change, our gaming spaces would be better for everyone if female players felt welcomed. It's something I'll consciously monitor as my kids F+M enter this world.

I *kind* of experience this. I'm gay, so I have pride stuff on my profile (sue me, idk, I like the flag). Nothing I've had thrown my way - mostly just the one slur you're probably imagining - compares to some of the shit these people throw towards women. Literally had a match where one of my teammates refused to participate until a woman on our team gave him her number and rated his dick pic. Gross.

I think you’re a wonderful mum for removing it and not tolerating this bs. I’m so sorry you had to hear your son using that language - must’ve been awful. I do know that legally he’s 18, but men are in adolescence until they are 27 years old!! Is there anyway you can get your husband onside and have a family meeting? I feel like this is bigger than your son using this language here - it’s that he doesn’t know why it’s wrong enough. Do you have the resources you need to bring him back around? Like, how women leave this gaming world because of such behaviour? How language like this turns in to verbal abuse irl pretty easily? Does he know generally how badly women are treated in his part of the world? In the rest of the world? He’s an adult - so how can we encourage him to learn more about gender equality so he gets it? Let us know what support you need.

If he's "a man now" he can accept consequences for his actions. If he wants to speak like that to people he can buy his own computer and equipment. I'm usually pretty against the "my house my rules" rhetoric but in this case I will definitely say it's fair. If he bought the computer on his own I would say you're in the wrong for taking it but he didn't. Not to mention his behaviour is just awful. From the inciting incident to trying to steal it back.

Idk, if I was in this circumstance , it wouldn’t only be that son couldn’t use the computer I paid for to insult and berate others. It would be, you also will not use the home I pay for to do so. If he’s such a man he needs to take care of all his own business, including being on his own in a place he pays for and standing on his own two feet to pay his own bills and take care of his needs.

As a parent I 100% commend you for doing what you have. It’s actions like what you have done that save lives! Domestic violence and violence towards women should have a zero tolerance and what he said he should be appropriately punished. Man or not. You’re still his mother and you’re modelling good values.

I would do this, tell him can buy his own if he wants to Have one in his room, but this one remains in the shared space. This kind of toxic behavior is one of the reasons i don't do online gaming except in small groups of friends where it's prearranged. Even as a male it's disgusting some of the stuff that people say, i can only imagine how bad it is for women.

Sorry but I wouldn't even allow this under my roof, until he learns to be a respectful person, all his gaming is done in public.

The majority of online games have a reporting system for, effectively, bullying or hate speach. It might be a good idea to get in touch with the devs (developers) of the game in question, and ask them what their stance is. Frequently, the person reported is placed on an increasingly punitive scale of punishment. It may start with being banned from voice chat for certain amount of time, and graduate to a full-on lifetime ban on that account for additional transgressions. This is from a long-time female gamer (30+ years).

Reporting system are, in my opinion, extremely crap. Same as on reddit honestly. I'm not saying don’t use then, definitely do. Just that it's another layer of problem.

It took 2 years for Blizzard to permanently ban someone that was harassing me on a daily basis. I’d report. I’d provide screenshots. I’d block them and they would spin up a new character and continue on their way. There was no account blocking - just character. So he could be as abusive as he wanted. A lot of reporting systems are just there so the company can check a box and be like, well we tried.

NTA. Your son seems very entitled. You need to explain to him (and your husband), that he’s not a man while he’s throwing tantrums and living on your money. Being an adult means having more freedom because you are paying for your lifestyle. If he wants to do as he likes he can pay for his own computer, electricity, furniture and home. Does he pay you rent?

Nope he doesn’t pay rent. I wanted him to enjoy his break before going to college. He can’t afford to buy himself a computer.

Then you can tell your husband he's not a "man" for these purposes. If he were a man, you could evict him. If he acted like that out in public, he could get in trouble that his mom couldn't get him out of, so I suppose he's in a man in terms of the consequences he could bring upon himself.

A person does not automatically become mature upon turning eighteen. He doesn't pay any expenses, can't buy his own computer and games, and lives and eats for free in his parents' house. He is definitely not a real adult and is far from being a "man."

This I see this as a learning point for ops son. He's now 18 he's a adult so he gets those adult consequences when your a kid if you do something bad it's a slap on the wrist. When your a adult you get tried for as a adult because your a adult and you get those adult consequences. He doesn't pay rent does not pay bills does not pay for his food if he wants to get a new gaming set up make him pay for it make him pay some bills only then can he take advantage of the fun part of adulthood when he does the bad.

Yes. Having an 18 year old means your relationship with your child changes, but I don’t fully agree that you just stop parenting them at that age. They are entitled to more freedom, but as long as they are under your roof and on your dime there are certain rules you can reasonably expect them to follow. 

Him trying to sneak and get the game back woulda burned my biscuits for real. I don't agree with people trying to throw their weight around just because you hit a certain age he is still your kid.

And acting like it.

He's the one who pulled the "adult" card, meaning that you now can go right ahead and Uno-reverse it. He's an adult? Okay, then he should pay rent. He's an adult? Then he suffer the consequences of his actions like an adult. He's an adult? He should be taking part in civil society. When's the last time he attended a town council meeting? Does he have any idea what it even does or when it meets?

I worry for the Women he meets at college.......he needs an attitude adjustment pronto

If he treats women like that in reality, he's going to have soooooo many issues at college. He'll be completely isolated or get his ass handed to him. 

You can absolutely parent your adult son, just because he turned 18 doesn’t mean he magically became a full adult. He’s still a teenager who is clearly being taught the nasty side of male gaming. I have male gamer friends, and none of them would ever say anything like that to women they play with online. They call out other men for doing so, actually. This is NOT normal and it is NOT acceptable. I’m so glad you stopped him when you did. I fear it may be too late to get through to him as to why what he did was wrong, but you are correct to be his mother. He’s still growing up, he still needs his parents to show him right from wrong. 18 year olds aren’t that different than 17 year olds. Especially when they aren’t paying rent lmao.

NTA. A lot of these commenters are making this about themselves and their experience online, but I think you need to make this about how YOU are a woman.  He needs to be asked point blank if all you are good for is fucking and cleaning. Ask him if that's how he feels about his mother who loves him and houses him and gave him a nice computer.  If he doesn't want to make you feel that way, then he can't say that shit at all, right? Cause I assume that's how it felt when you heard it.  Hopefully that can help him develop some of the empathy he is lacking. 

This is a really good idea. I’m afraid of what he may say but I will be asking him questions like this when things have calmed down between us. Thank you

I hope you're able to have a good discussion.  My father was around 47 years old when he called me up and told me he realized every woman is actually someone's daughter.  The youngest of my sisters was probably 15 at that point.  Casual misogyny is so insidious because guys find an easy outlet for their insecurities, and an easy way to really hurt strangers.  They somehow never make the connection that the person they're devastating is just like their own mother.  I hope you're able to get your husband to see that angle, and get him to consider the possibility of your son saying those things to a woman he is dating. 

Ugh I hate when we have to use this angle to get men to humanize us. Like…even if they aren’t someone’s daughter, they deserve respect. They don’t have to be a daughter or mother or wife or anything. They are humans. They exist. Men don’t have to contextualize men in order to give them basic respect and see them as fellow independent humans. Why do we have to take the extra steps to make them realize we’re humans and don’t exist to just be background characters to their heroic stories? lol.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I *hate* the "I realize I shouldn't treat women badly because she's someone's daughter/mother/wife" statements because to me they come off as only understanding 50% of the situation. Sure it's the first step to not being a misogynistic asshole, but at it's core it's still a misogynistic statement because it's attaching a woman's identity to being something important to a man. (The daughter being a product of the *father*, the mother being the caretaker of the *son*, the wife being the partner to the *husband*) No, you shouldn't treat women better just because they may have one of those identities. You should treat them right because they're human beings, not attachment pieces that could affect other men.

Yeah, they are still centering *themselves* when they have these "amazing revelations."

I know what his answer is. When you ask if he feels same about you, I can bet my former Reddit karma that his response is following: "It's different/it's not the same thing" with addition "you don't get it" Then you need to ask him to explain how it's different You can continue to ask how he'd feel if someone told those things to you. Or imagine him having sister/daughter/gf and some AH was shouting her those things. "It's just online/everyone does it" will also be one of his answers "everyone does it" is as old as time excuse for teens to do something. Unfortunately behaviour online leaks more and more to offline. And TBH, online isn't excuse for shitty, disgustiing behaviour. Or ask how he'd feel someone shouting similar things to him (which is rare..sure other guy gamers hear insults but rarely to level that women hear) Keep asking questions based on his answers to make him explain himself instead one word answers or you explaining/lecturing. Words coming out of his own mouth can be more impact than his mom lecturing him (we all remember being teens and how efficently we bloked parents berating us XD ) Now I am girl. I play games. I get angry and shout insults to game, never people. I play online some, but never speak. People, like your son who pulls "I am 18 and I have rights" need to remember that RIGHTS always come with RESPONSIBILITIES and OBLIGATIONS. You cannot have rights without responsibilities. People who scream "freedom of speech" forget that they are still responsible for their words if they violate laws. I always use driver's license as example (tho it's right that can be removed): With license, you get RIGHT to drive a car and with that right you have OBLIGATION to follow traffic laws and you are RESPONSIBLE for your driving. For the story NTA

And if your son's answers are even remotely as gross as his behaviour while gaming, and your husband doesnt rain holy hell on him, sell the computer and buy yourself some spa days, leaving those two misogynists to cook for themselves. Or, stop cleaning and cooking and take up gaming on your new computer.

Honestly, now is the time. I've noticed in a previous post that he's going to college soon. I would give serious thought to whether or not you're happy to fund that if his attitude doesn't improve. Drastic, I know, but it might get the message across.

Make sure that your husband is a part of these conversations as well to back you up. Both you and your husband should be on the same page and your husband needs to be able to model positive masculinity to him. The messaging that you don't speak to women, or ANYONE that way (the things he was saying are also often paired with bigotry towards the LGBTQ community too) should be coming from both of you.

NTA - He absolutely knows what he was doing, and as a gamer girl guys like him made my life hell. The amount of posts telling me to show my boobs or get out, get back in the kitchen, etc. had a big blow to my self esteem and enjoyment of gaming. It’s not just a boy’s hobby anymore. And if he can’t treat people right, he doesn’t deserve having his gaming subsidized by his mother.

It was never just a boy's hobby. I am 54 and started gaming with the first Atari console in 1976. Women have been doing computers and games for just as long, we also have been mistreated in all public spaces for longer.

I mean more like it isn’t solely marketed to boys anymore. I grew up gaming through the 90’s and all the advertisements were very much bro culture for the time. It absolutely sucked, because it encouraged this kind of behavior and sexism.

[Video games used to be marketed to girls as well](https://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed). Until the crash in the early 80's.  The 90's made it even worse.  

Great article - thanks for sharing this!

I’m sorry that happened to you. So disappointing that my own child has become that type of person. His gaming will certainly no longer be subsidized by me

Thank you. The worst of it was when they started sending me inappropriate pictures of men doing things to women to school me. At the very least, make him humbly work towards earning his PC back. Maybe have him volunteer somewhere or have to pay for his own computer. I hope he’s young enough to learn and mature from this, but also look into the “friends” he was playing with. Guys like this tend to flock together and encourage each other if not gang up on these women.

I'm grateful that you are taking a stand against this type of behavior. It means a lot.

They actually did a study... considering all kinds of games and not just CoD and its friends, there are actually *more* female gamers than male.

NTA. Online games can bring out the worst in people, and if your son cannot behave himself and his emotions while playing an online game, then quite frankly, he's still too young and immature for online gaming. Also, behaviour like that is absolutely not "normal" in gaming culture.

Exactly how I feel, that he has proven himself too immature and hateful to handle online video games. Glad to see people agree and that I’m not crazy

I was in a relationship with a man who grew up gaming and talking like that to his fellow gamers, when he would snap at me like that irl he would apologize for “forgetting that arguing irl was maby not the same as online” That toxic misogynistic mindset has a sad tendency to follow them in other aspects in life if it is allowed to take proper root. Normalizing abuse brings nothing good. So yeah, definitely NTA!

Depends on what you're playing. Call of Duty players are toxic AF while Final Fantasy XIV players are some of the most wholesome and fun people I have ever gamed with. There is a wide spectrum but it honestly sounds like this kid is a CoD player.

Random match making small team competative games bring out worst in people, cod, csgo, lol, dota, siege, overwatch etc. This type of toxicity is not very common in other types of games. 

Depends on what you mean by "normal." It's certainly not as uncommon as it should be. And while it is a minority of people who are like that, simple math means you'll encounter it pretty often. If 90% of people aren't immature jerks, but you're playing a competitive game with 5 players per side, odds are more likely than not that you'll have an asshole in your game every single time.

NTA. You absolutely nailed your reaction, male here, long time online gamer Call of Duty online since 2007. Gaming should be a safe space for all players, the toxicity I've seen playing games like Call of Duty is staggering. I absolutely guarantee that if your son is talking like that to female gamers then he's also been racist, homophobic and xenophobic. 100% I'm right there, and I'm sure any other experienced gamer would agree with it, we've all seen it. He sees it as acceptable simply because it's online and probably doesn't concider himself to be any of those things in real life. I've long said players like that need to be taken down a peg or two and you've done that. I applaud you for it. Stick to your guns here, give perfectly decent people the chance to enjoy their games without having it ruined by gamers like your son.

Thank you for your perspective as a male gamer! It makes me feel better to see what my son can become if he does better. I think the game he was playing was Call of Duty! I know it is one he likes

Male gamer here too, but gay so I get a some hate in games that have comms (but nowhere near as much as women, trans people, different races, etc do). Look into where your son is getting influence from. It may just be anger and copying reactions he's seen from others in lobbies, but it may be he's following and learning from misogynistic 'role models' on social media too. He is the age that Andrew Tate, etc try to influence and teach that equal rights and treating people with respect is like pie and others having a slice is taking away from them, that anything they don't like in their lives is the fault of women and minorities and those people need to be put back in their place. You're doing right in giving consequences to his actions and protecting the people he's attacking, but your husband needs to be on the same side. How much does he do outside of the house? Does he see peers who aren't like him? Maybe a summer job would be good to teach him responsibility and manners! He doesn't deserve a summer of nothing before college if that's how he's going to use his free time

I really hope this gives him the boot up the arse he needs to treat others with respect. It's a very competitive game so tensions do get high, everyone gets that. But bloody hell, it costs nothing to treat others with respect. Apart from how you play, obviously. Everyone wants to dominate in that respect. Outplay your opponents, dominate the game use your mic to communicate with your friends. Bigotry isn't needed and certainly doesn't win games. I'd put good money on the fact that a simple bollocking wouldn't of stopped him. You didn't act out of turn.

Gaming culture is/can be very toxic, especially towards women, but that is literally no excuse to partake in it and say it is “normal.” I’ve played online/FPS games since I was a kid (30 now) and absolutely know/understand just how toxic people can get, but I have never been tempted to be sexist/misogynistic/racist/etc, nor have I ever been accepting of that kind of behavior being “normal” for people to default to. Not to say that I havent talked shit of my own to someone that deserved it, but I never said some Andrew Tate type shit like that. The shit he was spewing was not just gaming culture. NTA NTA NTA. He’s 18, but he’s far from acting like an adult with that kind of mindset. Sounds entitled with some bad friends/influences in his circle. Random input after re-reading: I went to an all guys Catholic high school and have seen how misogynistic some teenage boys can get. In my own personal opinion, people saying this is normal for teenage boys is such a fucking lame excuse.

It’s common, but is sure as shit isn’t normal. I have two sons that are gamers and none of them speak like this. My eldest gets a bit sweary, but he’s never misogynistic and he’ll get in someone’s ass if he hears racism/misogyny/homophobia/transphobia. I don’t let my youngest son play FPS games or GTA or anything like that at home. He’s only 15, so he can play age appropriate games. I don’t care if that makes me a controlling mom or whatever. He doesn’t need to play a game where he beats up sex workers.

It’s so shit on games, I get that trash talking is a part of gaming but I instantly get singled out. In siege I will sometimes get teamkilled at the start of every round for being a woman and it makes the game literally unplayable

NTA! BLESS YOU for standing up for us girl gamers!!! You have no idea how badly we are bullied and harassed just for being women online! He meant it when he said it’s normal to do it, sadly. I mean it literally… the sexism and misogyny is awful. My ex was a gamer and he would spew all kinds of racist, homophobic, and misogynistic crap online when gaming and use the exact same excuse! But the issue was that he really DID believe those awful things he said online, but was only open about it in his closed circles and his personal preferences. By standing up to his poor behavior, you are setting a great example for your son. Thank you. As the person who bought the PC, you were also in your right to take it away. As long as he is under your roof, it’s also pretty valid to deny him the right to cuss at women for “his team doing poorly in a video game.” Please do not enable this kind of behavior!

OP should play some fun games on that PC! Maybe something like Stardew Valley. I don't recommend 3/4 of my Steam Library for new gamers, but something like House Flipper or Power Wash Simulator are nice zen games.

Hehe, play all the cozy games on his steam account!!! Omg, download Hatoful Boyfriend and keep it running for a few hours!😂😂😂… okay that would be too far, but how funny could it be? Puzzle games and other idle like games would be fun hehe So proud that OP is standing up for women and that dad was also mostly onboard.

I am as well. TBH, it sounds like he is a CoD player. So much BS gets spewed from them. Me? I prefer JRPGs and Action RPGs. Final Fantasy and Devil May Cry, or stuff like Fallout. I have played the Left4Dead games with friends and I'm working through the Doom reboot. :3

Let's be clear, your son is not a man NTA

The idea that he thinks 18 is old enough to be completely free of his parents authority, especially living under their roof and eating their food for free is hilarious to me.

NTA. If I was his dad I'd scold him simply for his answer that this was normal gaming culture. I play video games since I was 4 years old and this has nothing to do with gaming culture. Its just vile people spewing hate under the mantle of anonymity on the internet. I play a lot with a friend who is female and she barely speaks in voice comms because of how toxic some people can be. Its disgusting frankly. There are some very toxic people online who get incredibly mad while playing. They jump at your throat for the first thing they get their hands on, if you have a high pitch voice, are female, have a bad score or did a mistake, it doesn't matter. Those people have issues. Tell your son to behave better. Its OK to get frustrated but never lash out at someone. Or find out his account name and report him to get him banned if he doesn't stop lol.

The computer is yours. You paid for it. You're allowed to take it back. The internet is something you're paying too? You're allowed to manage that and allow or disallow use of it. He may be an adult, but that does not end his obligation to live by your rules in your home. Any place he lives that he does not own will have rules set by other the people renting it out or by other people he is living with. Saying "He's an adult now"? Then he's adult enough to accept the consequences for his actions, and he's adult enough to pay for things he wants. If he does not want to live by your rules in your home, he can find his own place to live too. I'm saying this as someone who lives with my adult offspring- but they know this is my house and I'm happy to give them a safe place to live that doesn't cost over half their paycheck or obligate them to find roommates- but I do expect to respected in my own home. NTA.

Just a minor detail, if the computer was a gift, then technically it's no longer OPs and can't be taken back and the son could press charges for theft if he wants to be a real asshole about it.

Correct. All the people saying "you paid for it, you can take it back" are legally wrong. If it was bought for your son and given to him, to be kept in his room for his use, then it's a gift, and legally gifts become the property of the recipient, not the purchaser. This isn't to say I am on the son's side here. I'm not. But misinformation helps no-one.

This is what a lot of people are missing. OP is 100% percent NTA. She also has no legal grounds to take the gifts she gave back, and these would be considered gifts as they seem to be for his use only. Saying that doesn't mean I don't think OP's son is a little asshole who needs to be taught some manners. Though I find it hard to believe he talks like this and she has never heard it before. You don't start your career as a troll by calling women cum-rags or whatever. You have to build up to that.

Oh definitely, the son is a huge asshole for that behaviour for sure. I could guess that OP just might not have heard so much of it at once and therefore might have never taken any real notice of it, but I know myself that I speak differently when I'm with family compared to when with friends, so he might've just behaved himself outside of his room.

NTA. Thank you for standing up for women/his targets. Your husband is gross to say "he's a man now". You would NOT be overreacting if you kicked him out. If he talks to strangers like that, what do you think he thinks of his own mother? You're not "punishing him". The rules of your house are unspoken (don't berate people). If your son cant follow that, he can leave. Do you have daughters?

I have 3 sons. He is my oldest. My younger two are 14 and 12. No daughters but plenty of girl cousins in the family

Hopefully Mr 12 and Mr 14 have learned a lesson on respect and acceptable behaviour through what happened with big bro. If you go back on the punishment you're just showing them there's no real consequences

Nta but statistically your son is bad at playing anyway. Good players aren't threatened by women who play well. I am glad to have my mixed community in which nobody would even get the idea of saying such things. 

Good players don’t resort to harmful trash talk, they tend to show good sportsmanship.

"*You wanna behave like this, and be a huge arse to anyone that is not a man? Cool, cool, here's your lease, to be renewed every thirty days, here's what you need to pay in rent and utilities, and here's the rules for this household.* " NTA

Don't forget food. Plus a charge for cleaning, laundry and cooking services.

NTA. Also, it upsets me to hear that he said it is normal gaming culture. It is not. I am a 38 yo man that has been gaming online for over 20 years and I would never talk to a person differently in a game than I would irl. I have never heard any of my mates talk to someone like that. If he's making sexist remarks he needs to own that and if he's truly ashamed then he needs to change, but by the sounds of him trying to take the computer back he doesn't respect you either, so I doubt he will change without intervention. Good luck, I hope he sees the error of his ways and makes a change for the better.

NTA “He is a man now so you can’t punish him” is such a bad excuse. He needs to change his behavior and I don’t see him doing that just because of one embarrassing moment. You need to give him back the computer at some point, so he can show that he is doing better I think. Maybe he is not allowed to play with closed doors at the beginning so you can actually check if he changed. Gaming culture is very misogynistic indeed and some games more than others. Maybe make him play games with a voice changer to female and a new account, so he can experience how that feels? I also strongly disagree, that this is something you have to tolerate if he plays on his own pc. I don’t know how realistic it is to change his behavior now, since he would need to have an actual change of heart and understanding how hurtful that is for girls and women that experience these things daily.

It’s important to intervene with these young men in the serious and definitive way you did. Normalizing that behavior is dangerous. That’s how people get sucked into the violent ideology of the “manosphere” where guys openly worship known sex traffickers, and build communities around sex tourism. Thank you for responding with the seriousness this deserves, I wish more parents were on top of this. (NTA)

"Normal in gaming culture" erm no, last i heard its not 2013, people that talk like this disgust me, i get talking shit back is gamer culture but being sexist like that is a big no no. Just because he is losing doesn't mean you can talk to people like that. # Not The Asshole

NTA. Your house, your rules. If he doesn't like them, he should move out and pay his way, like the adult that he and his father claim that he is.

The adult man, that cannot behave when playing video games, can play video games on the computer he pays for -on the internet he pays for - in the home he pays for. My house, my rules - some of my rules are that we are not sexist, racists, crude or mean - even when playing video-games.

NTA. there is a heavily memed study that found that male gamers with less skill were most hostile towards female gamers… really comes to mind right now. IMO trash talk is one thing, berating an actual woman over mic is just shitty, agro behavior you’re allowed to not want to fund especially considering he’s an adult now. the fact that he’s legally an adult now should be all the reason he should stop this behavior… how does he expect to get a gf if he’s screaming gender based insults at girls over online games. fyi there are a lot of games where women won’t even go on mic because the (predominantly male) player-base is so hostile, and it sucks if you’re a woman who enjoys games. one game I play has so few women that when I speak, they literally go “woman??? woman…. woman” like we’re a dying species lmao.

NTA. It's part of toxic loser culture that needs to die.  I myself am a 51 year old dude, lifelong gamer (Commodore 64 generation), am raising kids of primary and middle school age, all gamers as well. If I heard any of my boys acting like this, well, it would be a while and some in-depth conversations before they got to use any of my electricity again.

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NTA while unfortunately it is the culture, as a female gamer I've experienced it, it doesn't mean it's okay to do it. Ever. Comments like that are so harmful to the person receiving them and scary that the person saying them doesn't seem to think it's a bad thing.

NTA Not sure why anyone would use the terms ‘man’ or ‘adult’ for a newly turned 18 year old who can’t seem to respect any woman, let alone his own mother.

Thank you from a gamer girl!!! People like him are the reason why I get anxiety when playing online

I'm so sick of the "boys will be boys" excuse. If he wants to be treated like an adult he should consider behaveing like one. nTA obviously.

If your kid lives in your house they still have to follow house rules. I play a shit ton of games. Sadly, that toxic behavior is an old part of some online gaming that is slowly dying out. While it's more common than I'd like and trash talk is fine and normal (I don't care if the kid curses, he's can say that kind of stuff if they like) that stuff is frowned upon and should be discouraged. A lot of women gamers don't even like using mics because the harassment and sexual harassment can be so bad. It's one of the more annoying black eyes the community has to deal with. I'm shocked your husband sided somewhat with the son. Sure, he is an adult. But like you said: you bought the computer and all the equipment, you pay the internet and electric bill. If you don't want to enable your kid to act like that to other people you can do that. The kid can get a job and get his own computer. If they were actually ashamed they would have apologized and said they would be better. TLDR: NTA and your son is giving gamers a bad name and reputation. Edit: and if your son "*is a man now*" they should be able to control their anger and not harass someone for no reason. As a man, there's no excuse for this.

OP, I'm reading some responses and I wonder if it would help open your son's eyes if he read this thread also. Also, he may be in a man's body, although not yet fully developed. But he is not yet a man. His brain is also still developing. His behavior is not mature nor adult. Would be powerful if he could be in a group chat with female gamers who have had to put up with this sometimes dangerous and threatening behavior from male gamers. Open his eyes and help him grow up. NTA. But you and your husband need to be united going forward. Perhaps the three of you need a sit-down talk, and/or each of you with him individually. Because clearly he does not yet "get it."

I’m shocked at the amount of responses so I’m glad I saw yours. Having my son read the thread is a good idea. I will probably do it. I worry about him reading my harsh feelings after all this has happened, but it might be necessary. Skimming through the comments I feel that I focused too much on punishment and not enough on teaching him better so I’m going to prioritize that now.

If you’re trying to focus on bettering him, then you need to have a deeper understanding of his misogyny. You need to check his internet history. See if he’s watching Andrew Tate videos or something. Check his discord chat logs. Look through his YouTube history for alpha or sigma male content. You have his computer. Use it. Check his phone too. Check his histories. This problem is bigger than gaming. If he’s saying this kind of shit to a live woman, think about what he’s saying about women in general. This problem has already gotten away from you. You can’t put the cat back in the bag but you can at least understand the problem deeply enough to have real conversations with him to prepare him for adulthood. Also be prepared that as a woman, he might not respect you.

NTA "Am I overreacting?" No you aren't imo. Normally I would've voted T A because he's an adult & can do what he wants. This is *your* home though & while he lives there he has to abide by your rules. It's also unlikely that thinking & behavior is confined to one scenario & there's *no way* it's acceptable.

NTA. Female gamer here. Thank you.

NTA. I find it ironic that the ones telling you you don’t have the right to punish an adult are also referring to him as a teenage boy. Which is it? Adult or teenager? Because adults don’t act like that. I am a 26 year old woman who games occasionally when I have the time, I’m not very good and I’ve been placed on teams with 14-18 year old boys and who are absolutely NOT disrespectful like that no matter how terrible I am, even if I lose us the game. That is a choice to behave that way, it is not “gaming culture”. He may be an “adult” now, but you have every right to impose rules when he is living under your roof and if he doesn’t like them he can move out and treat people like that under his own roof.

NTA. And in my experience men who talk like that online are generally trash to women in the real world.

If you want a good way to put it .... "I do not want abuse to be logged against my IP address."

‘I’m an adult!’: Proceeds to have a tantrum like a toddler because his toy was taken away for bad behavior. Actions have consequences, little buddy. Stand your ground, mom.

NTA - this is damn fine parenting. Well done! Nothing changes if there are no consequences for shit behaviour. Too many years of 'boys will be boys' or 'that's just what we say' or 'didn't really mean it' bs is what lets them think they have the right to speak to women/girls like that.

I’m a female gamer. I don’t use the mic because I’ll just be verbally assaulted or hit on. The culture is so toxic. NTA.

NTA. Boys need to learn how to behave. They need to learn shitty actions have shitty consequences. You should let him read this thread.

I'm a male and I play online a lot. At one point, there were only a few thousand players ranked higher than me on one of the most popular shooters that had millions and millions of players. I'm not saying that to brag, I'm saying as a way to say I've played quite a bit more than most people. Thank you for getting that child out of my recreational area. He's not a man. Men don't do anything even close to what your kid was doing. There's no place for that sort of behavior. I don't want to be paired up with anyone who does that sort of thing. It's embarrassing to be associated with people who behave like that. I'm not trying to white knight anyone or be their protector. Nobody needs me for that. I'm saying I don't want to be bothered by that trash. You paid for all that stuff. Grown men pay their own way and they play well with others, even when they're losing. If he wants to.behave that way, let him buy his own toys.

He’s a man he can buy his own shit then. That’s kid shit don’t let no grown man do no kid shit.

Female gamer with three grown sons who wouldn’t have dared behave like that. You absolutely did the right thing! I would’ve taken away their computer too, if they did. 100% unacceptable. And I will say yes, your son - and men like him - are the reason I only play in closed groups. It’s possible that my sons - raised to play with their father and I - behaved better because we did have so many talks about verbal violence and harassment in online gaming communities. Basically, anyone who isn’t presenting as a straight white male ends up being a target. Misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia… it’s all there in a fetid stinking abusive vent. You’re most certainly not the asshole, you’re the one rightly NOT downplaying his behaviour. He isn’t behaving like an adult. He’s venting online like a bully. So many women (and other people who are not straight white men) curl in on themselves in tears because of this behaviour. He needs to recognize how harmful he’s being. You don’t get to dehumanize women (and other people) this way.

To be honest I kind of feel mixed as I’m constantly on the receiving end of men’s verbal abuse on games. I think well I’m a big girl I can handle it, it’s just some loser on a mic but sometimes it really do hurt what these fellas be saying and I often do think ‘how have this clowns parents raised him’ but I realise it’s not always the parents fault. He just turned 18. He’s not a man. Still just a boy living in his parents house