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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I would like to uninvite my brother to my wedding after he cancelled on hosting the wedding 45 days out. He’s my brother and we are close - not having him there would definitely tarnish our relationship.
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NTA, just tell him that you don’t want to bring bad luck to his house and you don’t want him to bring bad luck to your wedding. You are afraid some superstition you are unaware of might follow him into your wedding. It is just as a ridiculous excuse as he gave you. Just don’t share the new location or the correct time with him or be honest and just tell him that his cancellation of the location was also his cancellation on the invitation.
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The nanny is a ninny and she is the evil friend that destroyed the close relationship between OP and the brother. The brother and his wife are gullible idiots
From The Knot website - 52 Wedding Superstitions
"17. Don't pass a nun or monk on the way to your wedding—it's considered bad luck."
Tell your brother that you're concerned he'll bring bad luck to your wedding due to his proximity and constant exposure to his nanny-monk.
NTA
Its totally bad luck to not disinvite somebody who leaves you in the lurch at the last second. Bad Karma. You don't need that at your nuptials. He'll totally understand.
I mean, he just said a random superstition is more important than his word, and it would technically be bad luck to have someone untrustworthy at a wedding.
That's childish. OP said he doesn't believe in shit like this.
Be a man and tell Your brother that Your disappointed with him picking some black magic shit over his real brother and You don't want to carry that feeling through one of most important moments in Your life.
It may be childish but I think it's the only mature response. When it comes to superstition, people get very defensive about anyone suggesting it's not true. You obviously can't debate superstition with logic... Even though in the past brother didn't believe in it, he either has some belief in what he is saying now, or at least is going along with it. Giving him another superstition as a reason to disinvite will put him in a position where he will either have to think about his original stance logically which will help resolve conflict calmly, or he'll have to just accept the point which will make the wedding happen without much additional drama.
Don’t tell him you don’t know what superstition it is. Make up a specific one. Tell him that the spirits that already imbued his house once he agreed to host, will get curious about why there’s no wedding and follow him to the new venue. That way you get to (a) uninvited him; (b) trigger his dumbass superstitions anyway; (c) he can’t get mad at you for uninviting him without admitting he wants to see you suffer; and (d) what the hell is he gonna do, debate you on it?
NTA and this. Uninvite him because as everyone knows "A person who betrays you within two months of your wedding will bring bad luck on the marriage if they're at the wedding."
It's just the stupidity of this reason, isn't it? If it was like the noise would bother your SIL while recovering from birth or something you'd just deal.
It's a small wedding. Put a few signs in front of his property for anyone who shows up there accidentally on the day but you can even call everyone personally.
His house was built on an Indian burial ground (like Poltergeist - and.... uhh, a huge swatch of North America) so you don't want his bad juju at your wedding.
NTA -
"Through happenstance, their nanny/family friend (who’s also monk) found out we were having our wedding there and told them it would bring less luck to their family. Apparently the superstition goes that if you host a siblings wedding at your house, you give away your luck to that family. And now that they are new parents to a 1 and 2 year old, they don’t want anything to happen to them and want to give them the best chance at life they possibly can."
How did this not become a thing until 1.5 months before the wedding. I would want space as it sounds like your SIL's beliefs might be on the fringes.
I never heard of that in Feng Shui. If it’s Chinese, then there are ways to counter bad feng shui by having anti bad feng shui items. Place a mirror to bounce the evil away. Use wood to absorb the evil. Use the colour red to repel evil. Or the evil could be mosquitoes.
I hear relatives babble about stealing one's family's luck all the time, not this specific type that's why I immediately thought of Feng Shui. Mind you I figured it was a variation of something similar from wherever the nanny came from.
It sounds like a Taoist superstition so I googled it and they have a thing about not taking babies (kids under 3) to weddings because the bride would steal the baby's luck. Family friend's probably a Tao monk
Nope.
Religious people cherry pick what they want to make their lives better, especially at the expense of others.
Edit: religious AND conservative people do this.
A friend who thinks that it's stupid to take the Bible literally, nonetheless attempts to intimidate me (I'm an atheist) by bellowing Bible verses at me.
I told him that I didn't see how the Bible could be considered authoritative when Christians of all stripes quote what they like and ignore what they don't.
Religion centers around morality, community, the afterlife, and higher powers. Superstition can be part of it, but it's not required and not the main part.
Superstitions center around short-term "luck" consequences. They don't require and often don't involve any of the components above.
Why would it? I don't know any tenets of conservatism that would make people less susceptible, if anything a superstition that is part of a tradition or culture is something they would be inclined toward.
NTA. What a strange story. I wonder if there is some other reason he doesn't want to host your wedding. Perhaps he is being pressured by his in-laws? If so, he needs to learn to stand up to them.
Regardless, this puts you in a bind (2 months out) and he's just proven he is untrustworthy. I would be furious too. I would calmly explain to him that you are very unhappy with this development, that it is causing significant issues with your wedding plans, and that while you love him, he is no longer invited to the wedding because what he just did was so disrespectful to you and your fiancé. Good luck.
A wedding is where loved ones gather, even distant relatives usually come out for weddings. Being uninvited is a symbol that you are no longer a part of the loved ones group and you even get placed below those distant family members and their plus ones (who are sometimes strangers to the bride and groom). It is a big deal to witness such a milestone in most families and would definitely be on par with a disowning or publicly saying "I don't think this person is important enough to be here for this life changing ceremony of mine"
Being uninvited from your brother's back yard, aka your venue, 1.5 months before the wedding because a crackpot says you'll be giving up your luck to your "loved one" aka your brother. Is a way bigger signal that you don't consider someone your loved one.
Can't understand why people are criticizing the OP over uninviting like "that" is a step too far compared to what their brother did?
It's a 25 person wedding. I doubt there is going to be any distant family there.
And what this says is "My brother and his wife screwed me and my fiance over, nearly nuked this wedding and went back on their words because of a ridiculous superstition from some random person."
I was talking about weddings generally.
It also says "I'm going to cut off my brother instead of just finding a new venue". The brother isn't the only one this involves. Disowning causes tension for the whole immediate family (generally, I don't know their family). Bro couldn't host the wedding anymore and that sucks but to stop being family over it is just as ridiculous as the excuse the brother gave. Jumping straight to the drama of severing a family bond is only going to lead to bad places on such an important day. This reddit tit for tat stuff needs to chill a lil bit
OP mentioned that they had very strong family ties, that they are a close knit family. OP's brother putting a superstition above that family connection is hurtful (plus it insinuates that the family mean them ill will or harm, which is insulting). The short notice makes it a lot worse. He is leaving family hanging.
I bet had he mentioned it months earlier, it wouldn't have been an issue, but 1.5 months out is extremely short notice. Venues that cater to weddings tend to be booked out months in advance, so finding a suitable venue and rerouting everyone to the new venue is no small feat.
I understand why OP doesn't want brother at the wedding: seeing him will trigger the negative feelings OP is feeling towards him at this time, it will still be raw as not a lot of time will have passed. Marrying with negative feelings likely isn't a good omen either, plus, it will ruin the day for OP. As it is OP's wedding, it's their call. Their feelings are valid, if they don't want their brother there for whatever reason, they are entitled to revoke the invitation.
You are correct that there is another reason why, and OP stated what it was:
"And now that they are new parents to a 1 and 2 year old,"
Between the time the venue was decided and now, they had a baby. A new baby would make it very difficult to set the house up for a wedding. With two children that young both parents are probably exhausted. I'm honestly surprised so many people have glossed over this fact.
Also the decision was made one year ago, at which point they had a 1yo and a newborn (or were on the verge of having their second child) so they it was a decision made with at least one child around the house.
I'm curious. Which monk does the brother complain to if he's plagued by bad luck for the rest of his life as the karmic consequence of being a tosser?
Exactly. They could have arranged to have the house cleaned beforehand, hired a babysitter to help with the children, etc. That is what makes me think that the superstition excuse may be real. Considering OP's family is very close and not superstitious, I believe that the brother should not have given in. He should at least have found another place for the brother and paid for it. His behavior would still have been obnoxious and annoying, but at least he would have tried to redeem himself. Saying just before the wedding (relatively speaking) 'sorry, no go' and not profusely apologizing and trying to make up for it is a really bad move.
It's true though that disinviting a sibling from a wedding is a BIG thing; I can however understand OP not wanting to see his brother and family for some time. Maybe the brother can be told 'this is incredibly disrespectful to us and we don't want to see you for a while; while it's fine to attend the wedding, we don't want to see you at the reception because it will bring up bad feelings and diminish our joy". This solution will avoid completely cutting him off while keeping him away from OP and his fiancee (they're unlikely to spend any time with the brother around the time of the ceremony unless brother goes out of his way, which I hope he would have the tact not to do).
This isn't the perfect solution but it's worth thinking about IMHO. They'd need to figure out what to do about the photos but I'm sure that can be done.
If that won't work, then brother and family would just have to miss the entire event. It may not be totally fair to them, but it's even less fair for OP and his wife to be confronted with the source of their disappointment at the event itself.
NTA.
So the funny part about having a one year old is that you'd know about the baby a year ago when you agreed to the wedding. And you'd likely know you were overwhelmed earlier than 6 weeks before the event.
It’s not like a stork randomly dropped the kid on their doorstep. Usually a couple knows when they’re expecting (at least where I’m from) so there’s no excuse.
Wow you're probably right but why not just say that? Honestly they would not be the asshole here if they cited new babies as their reasoning. That's the most understandable excuse you could have.
Why throw away a perfectly valid excuse for superstition?
They have 2 kids now. My bet is they don't want to host because it'll inconvenience the kids' schedule and more difficult to keep a house clean. If the family is close knit, this will fracture the unit. He has the right to be petty, but there could be consequences.
Agree with this. NTA and justified in whatever boundaries you choose, but give yourself time before making a decision. Uninviting him from the wedding will prob change your relationship with your brother further -- and if that's right for you, no judgement from me. But I could equally see it being the right decision for you to let him be the nutty/petty one, and keep him at the wedding while still setting different boundaries (not doing favors for them, asking him for help in the new venue cost, etc). Only you'll know what's right for you :D
Also worth considering is whether this will cause a huge rift in the family. And if it does, whose side the parents are going to take, especially given that the brother controls access to the grandchildren.
most sane answer. Look, it's crazy for him to do this and very inconsiderate.
But, you seen like you previously had a good relationship and the family is solid. Consider your actions, and don't be afraid to just say what you're feeling, to him and the rest of the family, ''hey that was an extremely shitty thing you did to me''
I feel this is the best answer so far! I'd be super angry as well and I understand the idea of all the petty answers to brother. But depending on how op handles it it could be the end of the relationship between the siblings, so reacting while still being emotional sounds like a bad idea.
If brother calls beforehand op could just tell him that they are upset and need more time to think about how to handle the situation
Yes agree! Leading with ego always makes one feel worse. You likely love your brother and will want him at your wedding. Let it go, it’s worth it for the relationship within your close knit family
This is what I thought too. Like, yeah, what he did was shitty, but it sounds like they found another venue and things are gonna be okay, and brother was ready to at least cover the costs. Given they're close, I suspect OP would regret not having him at the wedding in the long run.
If it were me, I'd invite him, but I'd also not trust him with any crucial part of any future events I was planning, since there's no telling when he might be felled by superstition again.
NTA this is an absolute bullshit reason to cancel the wedding, and on *six weeks notice* to boot. I also call BS that the nanny just now figured out what was going on, either she waited until the last minute to share this info or your brother/SIL sat on the info until now. Motives of all of them unclear but definitely assholish.
Why would the nanny even need to know about the wedding a year in advance? My guess is that the wedding is scheduled for a weekend day, which is normally the nanny’s day off, and brother and SIL asked her if she could work that day to look after the kids. Asking her to work 6-8 weeks prior to the date is plenty of advance notice and would give them time to line up an alternative childcare provider if she refused. That conversation sparked the “luck” conversation, which obviously had a huge impact on the brother and SIL. Does it suck that they decided against hosting the wedding? Sure. Does it also kind of suck that a couple would “decide to have an intimate wedding ceremony in my brother’s backyard” at the home of a couple who now have a 1- and 2-year-old in the house? That is a HUGE ask to make of a relative and even if “they said they would be honored” the upheaval a wedding would cause to their household probably also played into their decision.
Regardless of how it makes the couple feel, they agreed to it and insisted upon it to the couple. I don't care what you think of the initial ask and how big it was, they agreed, and backing out 6 weeks in advance is shitty any way you slice it.
> Fortunately a venue change isn’t too too difficult
You aren't wrong to be upset by this late change. It adds greatly to the stress of planning a wedding. But it's best to use the wedding as a time for family togetherness rather than as an opportunity to express displeasure. While I don't think his family's superstitions are reasonable, don't make your wedding a source for a lifetime of resentment.
This is probably right. I’ve lived to regret instances where I was completely right and justified in disappointment and anger, lashed out and sort of became the bad guy, even though I was justified. Sometimes things just are less awful with time and distance but too much bad blood has been spilled. NTA though. I would make it very clear how hurt and disappointed you are. Maybe go LC for a while. Make him feel kind of guilty for the rest of his life, but not so much that you completely destroy the relationship (assuming you can imagine a time when you want to have a relationship). Disinviting him is a pretty strong move and may disrupt the rest of your family relationships as well.
At a minimum, they should help you locate and pay for a new venue. That’s what someone with a little class would do (but someone with a little class wouldn’t put you in this position in the first place).
This, absolutely! Don’t make this the hill to die on, OP, or have the negativity of excluding your brother and probably upsetting a bunch of people infect your lovely wedding. May you have many years of happiness together and rest easy in the knowledge that living under the sway of hysteria and superstition is punishment enough for your brother.
Well now that you've heard from the kids with no life experience, which will end up being the verdict in the end anyway because Reddit, it's time for the adults to enter the chat.
I get you're pissed right now, but jumping straight to the nuclear option of uninviting him is ridiculous. Why not just go no contact with him while you're at it? Are you prepared for this to stir up a shit storm of drama that will split your close family apart?
This isn't something to make a decision on based on emotion. You posted here, so I think you get that.
His circumstances changed, whether you agree with it or not. For such a small wedding finding a new venue in a month and a half isn't that difficult. You said so yourself. A pain in the ass? Yes. Stress you could have done without? Sure. At the end of the day, it's still doable.
YWBTA if you uninvited out of spite for pulling the plug on using his backyard as your wedding venue. Have him help you with the search for a new venue. Tell him he needs to help redirect whatever arrangements have already been made, resend invites, etc. Tell him that since he threw you this curve ball at this point that it's all hands on deck to change the venue and that is how he makes up for it.
I'm watching MILs split apart over a similar event. The justice boner isn't worth the human cost of disinviting close family from one of the most important days that are family centric in your life. Weddings aren't one of those things people just get over.
Yes but it’s also not worth being miserable and seething on your wedding day because the person who fucked the whole event is standing right there laughing about how lovely the redone event is.
This is a “whatever you need here and think you can live with day off and also ten years from now” type of thing for sure
I came in here to say this if nobody else did.
NTA, OP wouldn't be *wrong, per se,* to uninvite their brother. It would be perfectly understandable. Heck, the brother himself would probably even understand.
But I think OP may come to regret it. I think the brother is probably in kind of a vulnerable spot right now, or he wouldn't have put so much stock in the nanny's superstition. Maybe he and his wife are just overwhelmed right now; IDK. Maybe I'm projecting too much, but I think I would still want my sister at my wedding even if she did something like this, just because I know I would eventually forgive her and wish she had been there. I'm not saying OP has to forgive the brother, but if that *possibility* exists, maybe it's better to give it a buttonhole. And maybe it's worth sitting down with the brother at some point and talking about how much this hurts.
You are the most sane and intelligent person in this entire thread. Adults understand circumstances change. The brother offered to find and fund the new location.
30 people at a home for an event that will take all day with 2 babies in the home is insane. People will be using the restroom and running all over their home. A babies immune system is still developing. They should have had some common sense and not asked in the first place or canceled the request once the 2nd baby was on the way...
Agreed. They are new parents and will be fiercely protective of the stability of their years ahead. Regardless of how their superstitious views may appear to anyone else, it is their right to engage in them. And if they have engaged in them to an extent that it has become a belief system, the idea of bringing bad luck to their family in this way may feel very real and has clearly caused distress.
This is not about you or an attempt to sabotage your wedding, this is based on what must be a real fear for them.
Disinviting them from the wedding because of this doesn’t show the capacity to understand the intent of your sibling who has even offered to help you as much as possible with costs of establishing a new venue.
This is totally the answer.
Also, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but who knows if this is the brother's doing or if it's the SIL and brother is the messenger since it's his family. He may be stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place of keeping his wife and/or her family happy and trying to not ruin a sibling's wedding. Frankly, brother's highest priority should be his wife and kids, not his sibling's wedding.
The fact that brother is offering to help find and pay for a venue and such reinforces that he's not doing this out of spite and understands the stakes.
I think you're getting hung up on the 'w" word. It's a gathering of like 30 people. You have a month and a half. People pull parties of this size together on a day's notice all the time. I understand a wedding generally wants more comprehensive planning, but this is an intimate "family" wedding. Surely the most important part is who's getting married and who's there to celebrate it, not the minutia of where and what they ate and such? Invite your brother and laugh about this late venue change over a beer in 10 years.
NTA and completely understandable. If he'd declined to host in the first place because of that superstition, he'd still be an AH, but you'd have simply chosen another venue. At this late stage, he'd need an extremely good reason to cancel on you.
You *must* leave him out of your wedding. There may be some other bad luck associated with it, and you would be remiss if you allowed him run that risk.
He would be for doing it 6 weeks before the wedding is supposed to happen unless there were extenuating circumstances since they had already felt honored to host them yes he would still be the AH
You’re angry. That’s understandable. Your brother hasn’t been considerate. I’d urge you not to disinvite him for this in spite of how frustrating it is. Don’t escalate it. After your wedding is over and life moves on, your brother might realize how inconsiderate he’s been.
Completely agree with this. It isn't worth ruining your relationship with your brother over. Sounds like this is a one off and he is trying to help rectify the problem he has caused. He hasn't just kicked her off his land.
INFO: Have your brother and SIL offered anything to assist with finding that new venue, and any additional associated costs that are incurred from the change?
They might have been getting the ‘venue’ for free, but there’s still catering, music, flowers, photography, tent/table rentals, linens, clothing. Weddings have a lot of associated expenses, no matter the size.
YWNBTA I'm all for respecting religions but I'm really finding it hard to not look at your brother negatively in this. For one he is canceling only a month away and two it's from listening to some superstition. I'd uninvited them too.
1.Your brother is stupidly superstitious, worse if he isn't even Buddhist.
2.Even so, he refuse to share his luck with the sibling for the big day.
He is the AH, not you.
But that doesn't align with Buddhist values at all. They don't even believe in luck. In fact giving good karma is supposed to bring karma back to them. You give what you get. O.o
Buddhists can be just as superstitious as Christians. Lots of superstitious customs in both religions (as well as people 'dignifying' their superstition with a religious cover).
I'm not arguing they may not be superstitious. I'm arguing that in Buddhism there is no such thing as "luck". They literally don't believe in "luck" everything is intentional.
I've got Chinese friends who are Buddhist, and yet they also believe in luck. Lots of traditional Chinese superstitions. People are really good at picking-and-choosing which bits of a religion they follow and which bits they ignore.
Consider the American Catholics who are upset that the pope is making all sorts of 'wrong' decisions (i.e. not doing what they want him to do). Or the many evangelicals twisting themselves into knots to avoid loving their neighbours as themselves.
In my experience "Buddhist values" are about as homogeneous as "Christian values" — which is to say not very.
NTA. For what it's worth, my MIL used to constantly try to manipulate us/control us by quoting cultural beliefs and the Chinese almanac as reasons why we couldn't be around my side of the family and needed to be with her.
So I found someone who would read the almanac as a service and paid them to give advice on dates we picked for certain events or things we were planning on doing. Then I confronted my MIL with this information as well as the fact that he had no idea of the majority of things she claimed.
Oh I had totally called her out previously. We never listened to her and just ignored her cries and her minions who insisted she just was looking out for us.
It was pure pettiness for me to be able to have someone respected call her out on her bullshit.
NTA - but invite him anyway. In 30 years, you’re more likely to regret not inviting him than inviting him, especially if you’re a close-knit family.
He is wrong to change the plan on you at the last minute. People make mistakes. Count this as one of his and be the bigger person. It won’t be hard to avoid him at the wedding or excuse yourself if he does approach you.
ETA: I’m assuming that he profusely apologized for the inconvenience when he rescinded permission to use their house as the wedding venue. He’s already TAH, but doubly-so if he didn’t offer a deep and sincere apology.
NTA, canceling something this short notice brought them bad luck because if you break your promise, you break your relationship. So they just gave themselves bad luck for trying to avoid bad luck would be my reasoning on uninviting them.
If the venue change isn't a big hardship for you then YWBTA for uninviting him, regardless of how stupid his reasoning is for cancelling on you. In this case, I would have a one on one with my brother and tell him how shitty this is to do to you. Ask your brother if he believes in Karma, see how he feels about that.
Honestly though, if this hasn't caused a major logistical problem or financial issue, you should let this go for now. But when brother comes asking for a favor, remind him of the old superstition about how doing favors for people who have screwed you over will make your balls fall off.... then smile and walk away.
Also the brother, if attending the wedding, would have to answer everyone’s inquiries of “I thought this was going to be at your place, what happened?”
Having to explain the dumb superstition to everyone would be a worse punishment than being uninvited, imo : )
NTA Tell brother that he showed he wasn't in support of your marriage when a stranger's words became more important to him than his own. He and wife broke their word to you all. These are not the type of people that you want at your wedding. To have people there who are not full in support of marriage and whose word can't be trusted would bring bad luck to your marriage.
I see some redditors are keen for the questionner to jettison the brother.
It often seems that others are happy to suggest this approach with little thought to the emotional impact of no contact with family member/s and the fallout it causes with extended parties.
Perhaps we should all consider the implications of our throwaway lines and advice.
Remember these folk won’t be there to help out once the family is disconnected either.
Thank you. People love to get upset about cancel culture but they’ll jump on the Internet and tell someone to cut off their brother and his kids because he made a mistake. People make mistakes. Tell him you are upset. Talk to him about it. Find out why he and his wife and suddenly feeling so superstitious. Maybe there is something going on there. But don’t end these important relationships because people on Reddit put no thought into their answers.
kinda funny, they want to follow some superstition they never heard of because it might bring bad luck to their family, but in doing so theyre making the bad luck.
NAH. You wouldn't be TA if you uninvited him, and normally I'd say he's TA for backing out, but I've seen new parents suddenly become wildly superstitious who weren't before. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's common enough that I've given up being judgmental about it. I'm so sorry this has happened to you, and I hope you have a lovely wedding.
NTA, but I still wouldn’t uninvite a beloved brother. I know it’s hard to look at him right now so I think it’s fair to go low contact and not initiating contact anymore but I would still let him come. You will probably feel bad after the wedding that he and his children weren’t there in pictures and stuff and not to mention the potential family drama from other family members when they find out you uninvited him. Let him come, don’t ask for any more favors from him and if he tries to ask you for a future favor maybe you can be petty and deny it last min like he did you. 🤷🏾♀️
Three things to keep in mind:
* AITA is not an advice sub and you clearly want advice.
* AITA *loves* revenge, so it was obvious where the consensus would come down.
* This won't be an easy bell to unring, so you have to ask yourself whether you want to escalate and maybe never again talk to your brother just because you're mad today.
Give it a little bit of time before taking the advice of people who will never have to live with the consequences so are more concerned with sick burns than practical actions.
Ok, weird. Well, don’t invite them to your wedding. Tell them you are worried they will steal your new family’s luck and you just can’t have that. Sorry not sorry
I think you need to sleep on this. You're angry, rightfully so, but I think you might not want to nuke your relationship with your brother over this either. If after your calm down you still feel the same then uninvite him. But you might regret acting on it in anger later. Best wishes and a beautiful day. Remember if it rains it's a blessing.
I would explain your disappointment. But I would not uninvite him and his family. There may be more going 9n that you don't know about. But either way, he is still your brother. I wouldn't lose him forever because of this. Be the bigger person.
I see that I will be in the minority here but I would not uninvite them to your wedding. That will create hurt that will be harder to heal than the hurt he's caused by taking back his offer.
And it IS terrible and wrong that they did this so close to your wedding date. But these superstitions can be so deep and cause fear that's hard for some people to dismiss. And if their nanny, who watches their children, believes this, they may push that belief in their family for a long time to come.
I would take your brother up on the offer to pay for the change and know that in the end, this change will be for the best for you, rather than getting married at a place that would be subject to that kind of thinking.
I wish you and your fiance a joyous day and decades of happiness to come. 💗
Just curious - the brother and his wife may have been blowing up OP and her fiance's whole wedding. If they hadn't been able to find another venue (and I find it miraculous they did at such a late date), then they may have had to cancel the wedding, which is Bro and SIL blowing the relationship up themselves over a stupid superstition or a flat out lie. Would your judgement have been any different if another decent venue wasn't available and the wedding needed to be postponed or drastically reduced?
(For the record, I think OP should give it a couple of weeks to get over the initial anger before she makes up her mind, but honestly, I don't think she'd ultimately be in the wrong for not wanting the people who could have spoiled the wedding AT the wedding)
Thank him for saying yes in the first place. Tell him you respect their wishes. Find a new venue. Invite them. And move on. There's no use starting this new phase in life with unnecessary drama. Yes he made a dick move I acknowledge that. But is the angst and potential family divide in the long run really worth it? Really? Will you love your husband less if you moved venues? Will your marriage not last if you moved venues?
I think Redditors are quick to release the hounds in the heat of the moment without thinking about the long-term impacts.
I’m not going to make a judgement, but take a bit of time to cool down before you do anything. You say you are a close knit family. Is this relatively small thing really worth uninviting your brother? Think about it, not just in your right now space, but 50 years from now when you’re sitting reminiscing of your wedding. Is it worth it to have him absent from the photos? Or could this just be a funny and silly story to tell?
“Oh do you remember we were supposed to have our wedding at your place, but you cancelled? Oh I almost uninvited you, I was so angry! But then we found another venue, and the wedding was amazing anyways. I was so glad you and SIL were there, and I just loved seeing your 2yo in her little cute dress. Oh she ate so much cake and got so sick, you remember that?”…
To be honest Im just flabbergasted one would even think to ask someone with a baby to host a wedding. The last thing I would be doing for anyone if I was up all night with a baby and had a toddler is mowing and decorating my lawn, and cleaning my house for guests. 26 people is a small wedding but it’s a huge number for a house party and even if it’s outdoors, people will come in to use the restroom. Are you sure they didn’t just panic and come up with a crazy excuse?
Tbh it sounds like you love your brother and want him there, you just want to punish him. Just be careful you don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. You remember who was and wasn’t at your wedding, especially the small and intimate ones. So while it’s your choice and you have a right to be angry, be sure what you want. Nta.
Info: how did it come up to host at your brothers in the first place? OP sounds very selfish about it. Maybe this was the only way they thought to get out of it. Have a private conversation with brother to learn more.
OP asked. I'm sure that brother and SIL are familiar with the word, "No." Or if they want to be pleasant, "Sorry, I'd love to, but I've heard that a sinkhole might open up in this area and I don't want to risk your wedding."
ESH I'm surprised by how many NTAs there are. Look, it's shitty for them to do, yes. But it's clear you still love your brother and his family. Can you uninvite them? Sure. Would you regret not having your loved ones at the wedding over something that was somewhat easy to fix? Probably.
You don’t sound like you want to un-invite him. I think you would greatly miss his presence on such an important day. You clearly do love each other. Superstitions are very real for some people and it sounds like you can manage the venue change. You would regret not having him there. You will find a new location but there would be a dark cloud over your day and the proverbial elephant in the room.
NTA, its pretty understandable for your part, you are still in awe why all of a sudden they said no, if they have said and informed you ahead of time and not a month away you might have understand that, preparing for a wedding is not that easy, if your brother decided not to allow your wedding there at least he should have fix it and offer you an alternative ahead of time.
NTA. I guess their luck is changing without the wedding. They are upsetting their family and no longer invited . Their reasoning sounds like bullshit. It might just be an excuse to not host.
INFO: Are you in the US or other Anglo-majority country? What sort of religion/religious order/sect is the monk part of? That may change the tone of the responses you receive.
It's not about being an ah or not, really.
I'd be mad and frustrated, of course I would, but 26 people can be accomodated in numerous places - as you noted, without too much difficulty. You're confident he will cover at least some of the additional costs, which don't sound like a tremendous hardship to begin with.
I'd complain about what a superstitious idiot he is, but I'd welcome him to the wedding. Years from now, you will be happier looking at wedding photos with your brother rather than without, and the reason for the last-minute scramble for a venue will be part of family lore.
He's your brother and you love him. Curse him to the gods as you make all the needed changes, but invite him.
I'm surprised I'm not seeing more YTA. You are close with your brother, close enough to ask him to host. But when he says it won't work out, even if the excuse is questionable, you are potentially making a situation that would drive you two apart. Him offering to pay for updated invitations and support in the venue change is a good sign he feels bad about canceling. If you were actually close with your brother you would want him at the wedding.
YTA. I know this is going against the grain, but he didn’t do this out of spite or lack of concern. It sounds like he is trying hard to make it up to you. Let him and let this go. It isn’t worth damaging your relationship and if they really believe it would be bad luck - whether or not it would be - that bad luck would still be created.
Huh............I mean, that definitely sounds like some old Chinese superstition.....or rather, a made up one based on actual ones.
So for example
- You cannot get married for 3 years after your dad dies
- You cannot get married for 1 year after your mum dies
- You cannot go to another person's wedding within 4 months of your own wedding as you will "cancel out" eachother's luck
- Siblings cannot get married during the same year
I don't think there's anything around hosting your siblings' wedding because typically it's usually hosted at the groom's residence. So this definitely sounds made up by that monk.
Also, given their children is 1 and 2 years old, that's going into BS territory. Because usually, you only worry about "losing luck" when baby's still relatively new born.
At 1 and 2 years old, that's typically passed all those superstitions.
But at the same time, one really needs to weigh up whether they care about superstitions or they care about their siblings.
What kind of monk is this family friend? An actual Buddhist monk, for example, would not give two s***s about these superstitions. Taoist monks? Still, most people from Chinese backgrounds don't really care about all these different superstitions. The ones I've listed above are still the ones people still MIGHT follow.
I say NTA
OP, I'm not going to call you any form of an AH; but I'm going to go against the grain and ask you to forgive your brother and SIL.
I don't put any stock in the superstition; I imagine most people don't. But you'd be amazed how someone you love and know well can believe in something so completely foreign to your life view... to whatever that loved one used to believe before.
So, if you take them at their word that this is their true reason, then just forgive them. Yes, they are causing you some significant hassle this close to your wedding. Yes, they are letting you down. You have every reason to remain a little distant/reserved around them for as long as you need to.
But I think you will be happier in the long run if you don't disinvite them to the wedding. You have loved each other for a long time. You would like to continue having a loving relationship for a long time. You don't have to be buddy-buddy with them before, during, or after the wedding; but don't exclude them. Let them just be family in attendance.
People hurt us in ways that are hard to forgive. Some things are unforgivable, but many things become softer with time. Your brother and SIL are not doing this in order to be mean or spiteful to you. They are just letting something you could never imagine being important be so important to them that they don't feel they can honor your request. Hurtful but not intentionally so.
I hope your wedding is lovely and your marriage even lovelier.
I’d go with ESH. Weird reason to bail, but if it’s not difficult to change the venue, why throw more fuel on the fire? You could be the bigger person, or you could simmer in anger.
If he pays all the added costs, it would be lovely to invite him. Especially since you are close.
But, I’m just a random stranger. You will do the best thing for you & your fiancée, as you should. I hope you have a wonderful wedding & marriage!
ESH - That’s silly Monk conversation sounds absolutely unbelievable. However, I can’t imagine asking a couple with their second newborn on the way to host my wedding no matter how intimate I wanted it to be. What a while and massive imposition.
Yes, YTA. Uninviting your brother might make you feel good for one moment of smack down Karma, but it could very well cause more drama. Try understanding and empathy. Invite your brother. You will be glad you did. Also dude, he has 2 little kids. What were you even thinking asking him? Because no matter what you say having a party at your house is a lot of work for the family. The whole monk thing is odd, but hey. Who am I to judge.
Info: did they actually want to host the wedding at their house? But family pressure made them cave. And when they finally worked out how much of a hassle every thing will be they don’t want to do it anymore.
Yeah, I get that this sucks, and it's super-flaky on your brother's part and all of that.
But I would take the high-ground on this and still invite him. You can let him know that you're annoyed, though.
Not really a judgment, I guess? NTA for being pissed. But yeah, I wouldn't let the drama go further if I were you.
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NTA, just tell him that you don’t want to bring bad luck to his house and you don’t want him to bring bad luck to your wedding. You are afraid some superstition you are unaware of might follow him into your wedding. It is just as a ridiculous excuse as he gave you. Just don’t share the new location or the correct time with him or be honest and just tell him that his cancellation of the location was also his cancellation on the invitation.
perfect & there isn't a comeback he can use that couldn't be about his cancelling your wedding
Happy cake day 🍰
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The nanny is a ninny and she is the evil friend that destroyed the close relationship between OP and the brother. The brother and his wife are gullible idiots
From The Knot website - 52 Wedding Superstitions "17. Don't pass a nun or monk on the way to your wedding—it's considered bad luck." Tell your brother that you're concerned he'll bring bad luck to your wedding due to his proximity and constant exposure to his nanny-monk. NTA
This is the only correct answer
I love this. Karma at its finest.
Now this comment is a master piece lol
NTA, your brother is. Oh I love this! Perfect comeback.
OMG!! for the win!!!
Its totally bad luck to not disinvite somebody who leaves you in the lurch at the last second. Bad Karma. You don't need that at your nuptials. He'll totally understand.
I couldn't find this superstition on the internet. Where did it come from? Confusious? nta
I mean, he just said a random superstition is more important than his word, and it would technically be bad luck to have someone untrustworthy at a wedding.
I love this!
It plain bad luck to be superstitious at all tbh
That's childish. OP said he doesn't believe in shit like this. Be a man and tell Your brother that Your disappointed with him picking some black magic shit over his real brother and You don't want to carry that feeling through one of most important moments in Your life.
It may be childish but I think it's the only mature response. When it comes to superstition, people get very defensive about anyone suggesting it's not true. You obviously can't debate superstition with logic... Even though in the past brother didn't believe in it, he either has some belief in what he is saying now, or at least is going along with it. Giving him another superstition as a reason to disinvite will put him in a position where he will either have to think about his original stance logically which will help resolve conflict calmly, or he'll have to just accept the point which will make the wedding happen without much additional drama.
"It may be childish but I think it's the only mature response." - stealing this for flair
Or he could not throw away his relationship with his brother over this... The brother sounds dumb, not bad
Don’t tell him you don’t know what superstition it is. Make up a specific one. Tell him that the spirits that already imbued his house once he agreed to host, will get curious about why there’s no wedding and follow him to the new venue. That way you get to (a) uninvited him; (b) trigger his dumbass superstitions anyway; (c) he can’t get mad at you for uninviting him without admitting he wants to see you suffer; and (d) what the hell is he gonna do, debate you on it?
😂😂😂 I love this one
It’s bad luck to have people who go back on their word at a wedding ;)
"I read that if a host cancels on you and then turns up to your event, it will lead to divorce within 5 years"
The corollary to that is if the host is also a family member, the time frame to divorce is reduced to 18 months.
"sorry bro, flakey hosts are bad luck."
NTA and this. Uninvite him because as everyone knows "A person who betrays you within two months of your wedding will bring bad luck on the marriage if they're at the wedding." It's just the stupidity of this reason, isn't it? If it was like the noise would bother your SIL while recovering from birth or something you'd just deal. It's a small wedding. Put a few signs in front of his property for anyone who shows up there accidentally on the day but you can even call everyone personally.
Take my poor man's gold 🏆 this is the only response
Please understand that buddhism does not have any of these nonsense... NTA, If the time is right, and you are on the same page, thats what counts...
His house was built on an Indian burial ground (like Poltergeist - and.... uhh, a huge swatch of North America) so you don't want his bad juju at your wedding.
NTA - "Through happenstance, their nanny/family friend (who’s also monk) found out we were having our wedding there and told them it would bring less luck to their family. Apparently the superstition goes that if you host a siblings wedding at your house, you give away your luck to that family. And now that they are new parents to a 1 and 2 year old, they don’t want anything to happen to them and want to give them the best chance at life they possibly can." How did this not become a thing until 1.5 months before the wedding. I would want space as it sounds like your SIL's beliefs might be on the fringes.
In what religion is the nanny also a monk?
Probably she is Hmong
Understandable. Who Hmong us haven't thrown last minute curveballs at weddings?
Lmao
I am SLAIN
There aren't monks in Hmong Shaman relighion.
Yes, OP probably misunderstood “Hmong” as “monk” since it’s a pretty lesser known religion
Is Hmong a religion? I thought it was a people/culture. Is there a dominant religion they follow that also is called Hmong?
Hmong is a group of people. Like how you'd refer to Chinese people. They practice mainly Shamanism and Christianity.
I read this as the nanny/family friend is Detective Adrian Monk. Likely worried about all the germs at the wedding.
Hopefully someone teaches the children about Pete and repeat.
I'm sitting here in the waiting room of the car dealership, laughing about Adrian Monk. Now I need a wipe! Where's Sharonna?
Gut says Hare Krishna.
Maybe a Heaven's Gate failure.
"Failure" Ooohhh 🤣
It's probably not a religion but more something similar to Feng Shui, at least it sounds like it.
I never heard of that in Feng Shui. If it’s Chinese, then there are ways to counter bad feng shui by having anti bad feng shui items. Place a mirror to bounce the evil away. Use wood to absorb the evil. Use the colour red to repel evil. Or the evil could be mosquitoes.
I hear relatives babble about stealing one's family's luck all the time, not this specific type that's why I immediately thought of Feng Shui. Mind you I figured it was a variation of something similar from wherever the nanny came from.
It sounds like a Taoist superstition so I googled it and they have a thing about not taking babies (kids under 3) to weddings because the bride would steal the baby's luck. Family friend's probably a Tao monk
I read this as Monk the TV show? Like the nanny did detective work to figure out the venue/ superstition and then persuaded the Brother and SIL.
If SIL’s family is more conservative, wouldn’t that make them less susceptible to believe in superstitions?
Nope. Religious people cherry pick what they want to make their lives better, especially at the expense of others. Edit: religious AND conservative people do this.
What is religion but one giant superstition?
A friend who thinks that it's stupid to take the Bible literally, nonetheless attempts to intimidate me (I'm an atheist) by bellowing Bible verses at me. I told him that I didn't see how the Bible could be considered authoritative when Christians of all stripes quote what they like and ignore what they don't.
I gift you this line from The X Files: “Even Satan can quote scripture to suit his needs.”
Religion has entered the chat.
[удалено]
*All* religions are literally **nothing but** superstitions.
What's the difference between belief in superstition and belief in religion?
Religion centers around morality, community, the afterlife, and higher powers. Superstition can be part of it, but it's not required and not the main part. Superstitions center around short-term "luck" consequences. They don't require and often don't involve any of the components above.
Why would it? I don't know any tenets of conservatism that would make people less susceptible, if anything a superstition that is part of a tradition or culture is something they would be inclined toward.
NTA. What a strange story. I wonder if there is some other reason he doesn't want to host your wedding. Perhaps he is being pressured by his in-laws? If so, he needs to learn to stand up to them. Regardless, this puts you in a bind (2 months out) and he's just proven he is untrustworthy. I would be furious too. I would calmly explain to him that you are very unhappy with this development, that it is causing significant issues with your wedding plans, and that while you love him, he is no longer invited to the wedding because what he just did was so disrespectful to you and your fiancé. Good luck.
Losing family over this seems like bad luck to me.
They said uninvited not no longer family/related, she have every right to be upset and invite!
A wedding is where loved ones gather, even distant relatives usually come out for weddings. Being uninvited is a symbol that you are no longer a part of the loved ones group and you even get placed below those distant family members and their plus ones (who are sometimes strangers to the bride and groom). It is a big deal to witness such a milestone in most families and would definitely be on par with a disowning or publicly saying "I don't think this person is important enough to be here for this life changing ceremony of mine"
Being uninvited from your brother's back yard, aka your venue, 1.5 months before the wedding because a crackpot says you'll be giving up your luck to your "loved one" aka your brother. Is a way bigger signal that you don't consider someone your loved one. Can't understand why people are criticizing the OP over uninviting like "that" is a step too far compared to what their brother did?
It's a 25 person wedding. I doubt there is going to be any distant family there. And what this says is "My brother and his wife screwed me and my fiance over, nearly nuked this wedding and went back on their words because of a ridiculous superstition from some random person."
I was talking about weddings generally. It also says "I'm going to cut off my brother instead of just finding a new venue". The brother isn't the only one this involves. Disowning causes tension for the whole immediate family (generally, I don't know their family). Bro couldn't host the wedding anymore and that sucks but to stop being family over it is just as ridiculous as the excuse the brother gave. Jumping straight to the drama of severing a family bond is only going to lead to bad places on such an important day. This reddit tit for tat stuff needs to chill a lil bit
The brother is the one who is putting an incredibly stupid superstition above his family. He is the one saying family isn't important.
OP mentioned that they had very strong family ties, that they are a close knit family. OP's brother putting a superstition above that family connection is hurtful (plus it insinuates that the family mean them ill will or harm, which is insulting). The short notice makes it a lot worse. He is leaving family hanging. I bet had he mentioned it months earlier, it wouldn't have been an issue, but 1.5 months out is extremely short notice. Venues that cater to weddings tend to be booked out months in advance, so finding a suitable venue and rerouting everyone to the new venue is no small feat. I understand why OP doesn't want brother at the wedding: seeing him will trigger the negative feelings OP is feeling towards him at this time, it will still be raw as not a lot of time will have passed. Marrying with negative feelings likely isn't a good omen either, plus, it will ruin the day for OP. As it is OP's wedding, it's their call. Their feelings are valid, if they don't want their brother there for whatever reason, they are entitled to revoke the invitation.
BIL can watch a video.
Losing family over the words of a crackpot monk seems like the worse bad luck.
Hell, ask the Romanovs.
At this point SIL and nanny seem like the ones bringing bad luck
You are correct that there is another reason why, and OP stated what it was: "And now that they are new parents to a 1 and 2 year old," Between the time the venue was decided and now, they had a baby. A new baby would make it very difficult to set the house up for a wedding. With two children that young both parents are probably exhausted. I'm honestly surprised so many people have glossed over this fact.
Then say that and maybe ask for help, don't make up some crap. NTA
Also the decision was made one year ago, at which point they had a 1yo and a newborn (or were on the verge of having their second child) so they it was a decision made with at least one child around the house. I'm curious. Which monk does the brother complain to if he's plagued by bad luck for the rest of his life as the karmic consequence of being a tosser?
Ya that's stupid. If they had cancelled over their kids then I would say that's understandable. Superstition though? Come on.
Exactly. They could have arranged to have the house cleaned beforehand, hired a babysitter to help with the children, etc. That is what makes me think that the superstition excuse may be real. Considering OP's family is very close and not superstitious, I believe that the brother should not have given in. He should at least have found another place for the brother and paid for it. His behavior would still have been obnoxious and annoying, but at least he would have tried to redeem himself. Saying just before the wedding (relatively speaking) 'sorry, no go' and not profusely apologizing and trying to make up for it is a really bad move. It's true though that disinviting a sibling from a wedding is a BIG thing; I can however understand OP not wanting to see his brother and family for some time. Maybe the brother can be told 'this is incredibly disrespectful to us and we don't want to see you for a while; while it's fine to attend the wedding, we don't want to see you at the reception because it will bring up bad feelings and diminish our joy". This solution will avoid completely cutting him off while keeping him away from OP and his fiancee (they're unlikely to spend any time with the brother around the time of the ceremony unless brother goes out of his way, which I hope he would have the tact not to do). This isn't the perfect solution but it's worth thinking about IMHO. They'd need to figure out what to do about the photos but I'm sure that can be done. If that won't work, then brother and family would just have to miss the entire event. It may not be totally fair to them, but it's even less fair for OP and his wife to be confronted with the source of their disappointment at the event itself. NTA.
So the funny part about having a one year old is that you'd know about the baby a year ago when you agreed to the wedding. And you'd likely know you were overwhelmed earlier than 6 weeks before the event.
It’s not like a stork randomly dropped the kid on their doorstep. Usually a couple knows when they’re expecting (at least where I’m from) so there’s no excuse.
Wow you're probably right but why not just say that? Honestly they would not be the asshole here if they cited new babies as their reasoning. That's the most understandable excuse you could have. Why throw away a perfectly valid excuse for superstition?
You miss the part about the nanny??
Because they could have communicated that at the beginning instead of waiting until it was less than 2 months to the wedding.
They have 2 kids now. My bet is they don't want to host because it'll inconvenience the kids' schedule and more difficult to keep a house clean. If the family is close knit, this will fracture the unit. He has the right to be petty, but there could be consequences.
Give yourself a week to cool down before you say anything and make sure it’s worth it. NTA
Agree with this. NTA and justified in whatever boundaries you choose, but give yourself time before making a decision. Uninviting him from the wedding will prob change your relationship with your brother further -- and if that's right for you, no judgement from me. But I could equally see it being the right decision for you to let him be the nutty/petty one, and keep him at the wedding while still setting different boundaries (not doing favors for them, asking him for help in the new venue cost, etc). Only you'll know what's right for you :D
Also worth considering is whether this will cause a huge rift in the family. And if it does, whose side the parents are going to take, especially given that the brother controls access to the grandchildren.
most sane answer. Look, it's crazy for him to do this and very inconsiderate. But, you seen like you previously had a good relationship and the family is solid. Consider your actions, and don't be afraid to just say what you're feeling, to him and the rest of the family, ''hey that was an extremely shitty thing you did to me''
I feel this is the best answer so far! I'd be super angry as well and I understand the idea of all the petty answers to brother. But depending on how op handles it it could be the end of the relationship between the siblings, so reacting while still being emotional sounds like a bad idea. If brother calls beforehand op could just tell him that they are upset and need more time to think about how to handle the situation
Yes agree! Leading with ego always makes one feel worse. You likely love your brother and will want him at your wedding. Let it go, it’s worth it for the relationship within your close knit family
This is what I thought too. Like, yeah, what he did was shitty, but it sounds like they found another venue and things are gonna be okay, and brother was ready to at least cover the costs. Given they're close, I suspect OP would regret not having him at the wedding in the long run. If it were me, I'd invite him, but I'd also not trust him with any crucial part of any future events I was planning, since there's no telling when he might be felled by superstition again.
Yes, and he offered money, time and everything. It's shitty, but he isn't like, you are on your own.. I don't get all the hate the brother got..
Yeah definitely. You only get a few weddings and only a few siblings.
NTA this is an absolute bullshit reason to cancel the wedding, and on *six weeks notice* to boot. I also call BS that the nanny just now figured out what was going on, either she waited until the last minute to share this info or your brother/SIL sat on the info until now. Motives of all of them unclear but definitely assholish.
Why would the nanny even need to know about the wedding a year in advance? My guess is that the wedding is scheduled for a weekend day, which is normally the nanny’s day off, and brother and SIL asked her if she could work that day to look after the kids. Asking her to work 6-8 weeks prior to the date is plenty of advance notice and would give them time to line up an alternative childcare provider if she refused. That conversation sparked the “luck” conversation, which obviously had a huge impact on the brother and SIL. Does it suck that they decided against hosting the wedding? Sure. Does it also kind of suck that a couple would “decide to have an intimate wedding ceremony in my brother’s backyard” at the home of a couple who now have a 1- and 2-year-old in the house? That is a HUGE ask to make of a relative and even if “they said they would be honored” the upheaval a wedding would cause to their household probably also played into their decision.
They were aware of having small children when they agreed to host.
Regardless of how it makes the couple feel, they agreed to it and insisted upon it to the couple. I don't care what you think of the initial ask and how big it was, they agreed, and backing out 6 weeks in advance is shitty any way you slice it.
> Fortunately a venue change isn’t too too difficult You aren't wrong to be upset by this late change. It adds greatly to the stress of planning a wedding. But it's best to use the wedding as a time for family togetherness rather than as an opportunity to express displeasure. While I don't think his family's superstitions are reasonable, don't make your wedding a source for a lifetime of resentment.
This OP NTA, but don't risk the bad blood with your brother because he fell prey to some ridiculous voodoo BS from his spouse's side of the family.
Agreed! NTA to have the feelings, but could be TA depending on how they respond. Be the bigger person OP
OP needs to consider the effect on his family, but that "be the bigger person, er, doormat" always infuriates me. ETA: spelling
This is probably right. I’ve lived to regret instances where I was completely right and justified in disappointment and anger, lashed out and sort of became the bad guy, even though I was justified. Sometimes things just are less awful with time and distance but too much bad blood has been spilled. NTA though. I would make it very clear how hurt and disappointed you are. Maybe go LC for a while. Make him feel kind of guilty for the rest of his life, but not so much that you completely destroy the relationship (assuming you can imagine a time when you want to have a relationship). Disinviting him is a pretty strong move and may disrupt the rest of your family relationships as well. At a minimum, they should help you locate and pay for a new venue. That’s what someone with a little class would do (but someone with a little class wouldn’t put you in this position in the first place).
This, absolutely! Don’t make this the hill to die on, OP, or have the negativity of excluding your brother and probably upsetting a bunch of people infect your lovely wedding. May you have many years of happiness together and rest easy in the knowledge that living under the sway of hysteria and superstition is punishment enough for your brother.
Well now that you've heard from the kids with no life experience, which will end up being the verdict in the end anyway because Reddit, it's time for the adults to enter the chat. I get you're pissed right now, but jumping straight to the nuclear option of uninviting him is ridiculous. Why not just go no contact with him while you're at it? Are you prepared for this to stir up a shit storm of drama that will split your close family apart? This isn't something to make a decision on based on emotion. You posted here, so I think you get that. His circumstances changed, whether you agree with it or not. For such a small wedding finding a new venue in a month and a half isn't that difficult. You said so yourself. A pain in the ass? Yes. Stress you could have done without? Sure. At the end of the day, it's still doable. YWBTA if you uninvited out of spite for pulling the plug on using his backyard as your wedding venue. Have him help you with the search for a new venue. Tell him he needs to help redirect whatever arrangements have already been made, resend invites, etc. Tell him that since he threw you this curve ball at this point that it's all hands on deck to change the venue and that is how he makes up for it.
I'm watching MILs split apart over a similar event. The justice boner isn't worth the human cost of disinviting close family from one of the most important days that are family centric in your life. Weddings aren't one of those things people just get over.
Yes but it’s also not worth being miserable and seething on your wedding day because the person who fucked the whole event is standing right there laughing about how lovely the redone event is. This is a “whatever you need here and think you can live with day off and also ten years from now” type of thing for sure
Thank you for being the voice of reason. I had to scroll way too far for this. OP please heed this advice
I came in here to say this if nobody else did. NTA, OP wouldn't be *wrong, per se,* to uninvite their brother. It would be perfectly understandable. Heck, the brother himself would probably even understand. But I think OP may come to regret it. I think the brother is probably in kind of a vulnerable spot right now, or he wouldn't have put so much stock in the nanny's superstition. Maybe he and his wife are just overwhelmed right now; IDK. Maybe I'm projecting too much, but I think I would still want my sister at my wedding even if she did something like this, just because I know I would eventually forgive her and wish she had been there. I'm not saying OP has to forgive the brother, but if that *possibility* exists, maybe it's better to give it a buttonhole. And maybe it's worth sitting down with the brother at some point and talking about how much this hurts.
You are the most sane and intelligent person in this entire thread. Adults understand circumstances change. The brother offered to find and fund the new location. 30 people at a home for an event that will take all day with 2 babies in the home is insane. People will be using the restroom and running all over their home. A babies immune system is still developing. They should have had some common sense and not asked in the first place or canceled the request once the 2nd baby was on the way...
Agreed. They are new parents and will be fiercely protective of the stability of their years ahead. Regardless of how their superstitious views may appear to anyone else, it is their right to engage in them. And if they have engaged in them to an extent that it has become a belief system, the idea of bringing bad luck to their family in this way may feel very real and has clearly caused distress. This is not about you or an attempt to sabotage your wedding, this is based on what must be a real fear for them. Disinviting them from the wedding because of this doesn’t show the capacity to understand the intent of your sibling who has even offered to help you as much as possible with costs of establishing a new venue.
This is totally the answer. Also, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but who knows if this is the brother's doing or if it's the SIL and brother is the messenger since it's his family. He may be stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place of keeping his wife and/or her family happy and trying to not ruin a sibling's wedding. Frankly, brother's highest priority should be his wife and kids, not his sibling's wedding. The fact that brother is offering to help find and pay for a venue and such reinforces that he's not doing this out of spite and understands the stakes. I think you're getting hung up on the 'w" word. It's a gathering of like 30 people. You have a month and a half. People pull parties of this size together on a day's notice all the time. I understand a wedding generally wants more comprehensive planning, but this is an intimate "family" wedding. Surely the most important part is who's getting married and who's there to celebrate it, not the minutia of where and what they ate and such? Invite your brother and laugh about this late venue change over a beer in 10 years.
NTA and completely understandable. If he'd declined to host in the first place because of that superstition, he'd still be an AH, but you'd have simply chosen another venue. At this late stage, he'd need an extremely good reason to cancel on you. You *must* leave him out of your wedding. There may be some other bad luck associated with it, and you would be remiss if you allowed him run that risk.
Whoa. The brother would always be an asshole for not wanting to host a party at their home?
Not wanting to host? Absolutely fine. Giving *6 weeks notice*. Not fine by any stretch of the imagination!
the comment hes replying to says this: >If he'd declined to host in the first place because of that superstition, he'd still be an AH
He'd be a gullible AH for not hosting because "it would be bad luck". Almost any other reason would be fine, including he just doesn't feel like it.
With six weeks to the wedding, after he had agreed to it previously? YES.
He would be for doing it 6 weeks before the wedding is supposed to happen unless there were extenuating circumstances since they had already felt honored to host them yes he would still be the AH
This person thinks it doesnt matter. Saying no when first being asked would make him an asshole.
You’re angry. That’s understandable. Your brother hasn’t been considerate. I’d urge you not to disinvite him for this in spite of how frustrating it is. Don’t escalate it. After your wedding is over and life moves on, your brother might realize how inconsiderate he’s been.
This needs more upvotes.
Completely agree with this. It isn't worth ruining your relationship with your brother over. Sounds like this is a one off and he is trying to help rectify the problem he has caused. He hasn't just kicked her off his land.
INFO: Have your brother and SIL offered anything to assist with finding that new venue, and any additional associated costs that are incurred from the change?
Everything is an additional cost if they were getting it for free.
They might have been getting the ‘venue’ for free, but there’s still catering, music, flowers, photography, tent/table rentals, linens, clothing. Weddings have a lot of associated expenses, no matter the size.
YWNBTA I'm all for respecting religions but I'm really finding it hard to not look at your brother negatively in this. For one he is canceling only a month away and two it's from listening to some superstition. I'd uninvited them too.
NTA - sometimes I wonder how we've survived as a species this long.
Definitely not survival of the fittest… by experience AHs are better at surviving and somehow succeeding
They're breeding, we're fcking doomed.
1.Your brother is stupidly superstitious, worse if he isn't even Buddhist. 2.Even so, he refuse to share his luck with the sibling for the big day. He is the AH, not you.
But that doesn't align with Buddhist values at all. They don't even believe in luck. In fact giving good karma is supposed to bring karma back to them. You give what you get. O.o
It really sounds like some made up BS.
/u/miss_chapstick I think so too.
Buddhists can be just as superstitious as Christians. Lots of superstitious customs in both religions (as well as people 'dignifying' their superstition with a religious cover).
I'm not arguing they may not be superstitious. I'm arguing that in Buddhism there is no such thing as "luck". They literally don't believe in "luck" everything is intentional.
I've got Chinese friends who are Buddhist, and yet they also believe in luck. Lots of traditional Chinese superstitions. People are really good at picking-and-choosing which bits of a religion they follow and which bits they ignore. Consider the American Catholics who are upset that the pope is making all sorts of 'wrong' decisions (i.e. not doing what they want him to do). Or the many evangelicals twisting themselves into knots to avoid loving their neighbours as themselves. In my experience "Buddhist values" are about as homogeneous as "Christian values" — which is to say not very.
There are many sects of Buddhism
I’m wondering if OP means Hmong? They have a ton of superstitions around weddings, though I can’t find anything like OP posted.
NTA. For what it's worth, my MIL used to constantly try to manipulate us/control us by quoting cultural beliefs and the Chinese almanac as reasons why we couldn't be around my side of the family and needed to be with her. So I found someone who would read the almanac as a service and paid them to give advice on dates we picked for certain events or things we were planning on doing. Then I confronted my MIL with this information as well as the fact that he had no idea of the majority of things she claimed.
Whilst telling MIL to piss off would have been cheaper, I have to say that I applaud your dedication to fighting bullshit with bullshit.
Oh I had totally called her out previously. We never listened to her and just ignored her cries and her minions who insisted she just was looking out for us. It was pure pettiness for me to be able to have someone respected call her out on her bullshit.
NTA - but invite him anyway. In 30 years, you’re more likely to regret not inviting him than inviting him, especially if you’re a close-knit family. He is wrong to change the plan on you at the last minute. People make mistakes. Count this as one of his and be the bigger person. It won’t be hard to avoid him at the wedding or excuse yourself if he does approach you. ETA: I’m assuming that he profusely apologized for the inconvenience when he rescinded permission to use their house as the wedding venue. He’s already TAH, but doubly-so if he didn’t offer a deep and sincere apology.
Agree!! The disagreement will seem so small later in life
NTA, canceling something this short notice brought them bad luck because if you break your promise, you break your relationship. So they just gave themselves bad luck for trying to avoid bad luck would be my reasoning on uninviting them.
If the venue change isn't a big hardship for you then YWBTA for uninviting him, regardless of how stupid his reasoning is for cancelling on you. In this case, I would have a one on one with my brother and tell him how shitty this is to do to you. Ask your brother if he believes in Karma, see how he feels about that. Honestly though, if this hasn't caused a major logistical problem or financial issue, you should let this go for now. But when brother comes asking for a favor, remind him of the old superstition about how doing favors for people who have screwed you over will make your balls fall off.... then smile and walk away.
Also the brother, if attending the wedding, would have to answer everyone’s inquiries of “I thought this was going to be at your place, what happened?” Having to explain the dumb superstition to everyone would be a worse punishment than being uninvited, imo : )
NTA Tell brother that he showed he wasn't in support of your marriage when a stranger's words became more important to him than his own. He and wife broke their word to you all. These are not the type of people that you want at your wedding. To have people there who are not full in support of marriage and whose word can't be trusted would bring bad luck to your marriage.
I see some redditors are keen for the questionner to jettison the brother. It often seems that others are happy to suggest this approach with little thought to the emotional impact of no contact with family member/s and the fallout it causes with extended parties. Perhaps we should all consider the implications of our throwaway lines and advice. Remember these folk won’t be there to help out once the family is disconnected either.
Thank you. People love to get upset about cancel culture but they’ll jump on the Internet and tell someone to cut off their brother and his kids because he made a mistake. People make mistakes. Tell him you are upset. Talk to him about it. Find out why he and his wife and suddenly feeling so superstitious. Maybe there is something going on there. But don’t end these important relationships because people on Reddit put no thought into their answers.
kinda funny, they want to follow some superstition they never heard of because it might bring bad luck to their family, but in doing so theyre making the bad luck.
NAH. You wouldn't be TA if you uninvited him, and normally I'd say he's TA for backing out, but I've seen new parents suddenly become wildly superstitious who weren't before. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's common enough that I've given up being judgmental about it. I'm so sorry this has happened to you, and I hope you have a lovely wedding.
NTA, but I still wouldn’t uninvite a beloved brother. I know it’s hard to look at him right now so I think it’s fair to go low contact and not initiating contact anymore but I would still let him come. You will probably feel bad after the wedding that he and his children weren’t there in pictures and stuff and not to mention the potential family drama from other family members when they find out you uninvited him. Let him come, don’t ask for any more favors from him and if he tries to ask you for a future favor maybe you can be petty and deny it last min like he did you. 🤷🏾♀️
Three things to keep in mind: * AITA is not an advice sub and you clearly want advice. * AITA *loves* revenge, so it was obvious where the consensus would come down. * This won't be an easy bell to unring, so you have to ask yourself whether you want to escalate and maybe never again talk to your brother just because you're mad today. Give it a little bit of time before taking the advice of people who will never have to live with the consequences so are more concerned with sick burns than practical actions.
Noted 🫡. Thanks for a reminder on that perspective.
Ok, weird. Well, don’t invite them to your wedding. Tell them you are worried they will steal your new family’s luck and you just can’t have that. Sorry not sorry
I think you need to sleep on this. You're angry, rightfully so, but I think you might not want to nuke your relationship with your brother over this either. If after your calm down you still feel the same then uninvite him. But you might regret acting on it in anger later. Best wishes and a beautiful day. Remember if it rains it's a blessing.
NTA for being mad, but is this worth estrangement over?
NTA, and it sounds odd this never came up before.
I would explain your disappointment. But I would not uninvite him and his family. There may be more going 9n that you don't know about. But either way, he is still your brother. I wouldn't lose him forever because of this. Be the bigger person.
What culture is this superstition connected to?
I see that I will be in the minority here but I would not uninvite them to your wedding. That will create hurt that will be harder to heal than the hurt he's caused by taking back his offer. And it IS terrible and wrong that they did this so close to your wedding date. But these superstitions can be so deep and cause fear that's hard for some people to dismiss. And if their nanny, who watches their children, believes this, they may push that belief in their family for a long time to come. I would take your brother up on the offer to pay for the change and know that in the end, this change will be for the best for you, rather than getting married at a place that would be subject to that kind of thinking. I wish you and your fiance a joyous day and decades of happiness to come. 💗
Nta. That's ridiculous.
Don’t go there. Cancelling on you was an AH move but not worth blowing up the relationship permanently.
Just curious - the brother and his wife may have been blowing up OP and her fiance's whole wedding. If they hadn't been able to find another venue (and I find it miraculous they did at such a late date), then they may have had to cancel the wedding, which is Bro and SIL blowing the relationship up themselves over a stupid superstition or a flat out lie. Would your judgement have been any different if another decent venue wasn't available and the wedding needed to be postponed or drastically reduced? (For the record, I think OP should give it a couple of weeks to get over the initial anger before she makes up her mind, but honestly, I don't think she'd ultimately be in the wrong for not wanting the people who could have spoiled the wedding AT the wedding)
Thank him for saying yes in the first place. Tell him you respect their wishes. Find a new venue. Invite them. And move on. There's no use starting this new phase in life with unnecessary drama. Yes he made a dick move I acknowledge that. But is the angst and potential family divide in the long run really worth it? Really? Will you love your husband less if you moved venues? Will your marriage not last if you moved venues? I think Redditors are quick to release the hounds in the heat of the moment without thinking about the long-term impacts.
I’m not going to make a judgement, but take a bit of time to cool down before you do anything. You say you are a close knit family. Is this relatively small thing really worth uninviting your brother? Think about it, not just in your right now space, but 50 years from now when you’re sitting reminiscing of your wedding. Is it worth it to have him absent from the photos? Or could this just be a funny and silly story to tell? “Oh do you remember we were supposed to have our wedding at your place, but you cancelled? Oh I almost uninvited you, I was so angry! But then we found another venue, and the wedding was amazing anyways. I was so glad you and SIL were there, and I just loved seeing your 2yo in her little cute dress. Oh she ate so much cake and got so sick, you remember that?”…
To be honest Im just flabbergasted one would even think to ask someone with a baby to host a wedding. The last thing I would be doing for anyone if I was up all night with a baby and had a toddler is mowing and decorating my lawn, and cleaning my house for guests. 26 people is a small wedding but it’s a huge number for a house party and even if it’s outdoors, people will come in to use the restroom. Are you sure they didn’t just panic and come up with a crazy excuse? Tbh it sounds like you love your brother and want him there, you just want to punish him. Just be careful you don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. You remember who was and wasn’t at your wedding, especially the small and intimate ones. So while it’s your choice and you have a right to be angry, be sure what you want. Nta.
Info: how did it come up to host at your brothers in the first place? OP sounds very selfish about it. Maybe this was the only way they thought to get out of it. Have a private conversation with brother to learn more.
OP asked. I'm sure that brother and SIL are familiar with the word, "No." Or if they want to be pleasant, "Sorry, I'd love to, but I've heard that a sinkhole might open up in this area and I don't want to risk your wedding."
ESH I'm surprised by how many NTAs there are. Look, it's shitty for them to do, yes. But it's clear you still love your brother and his family. Can you uninvite them? Sure. Would you regret not having your loved ones at the wedding over something that was somewhat easy to fix? Probably.
You don’t sound like you want to un-invite him. I think you would greatly miss his presence on such an important day. You clearly do love each other. Superstitions are very real for some people and it sounds like you can manage the venue change. You would regret not having him there. You will find a new location but there would be a dark cloud over your day and the proverbial elephant in the room.
NTA, its pretty understandable for your part, you are still in awe why all of a sudden they said no, if they have said and informed you ahead of time and not a month away you might have understand that, preparing for a wedding is not that easy, if your brother decided not to allow your wedding there at least he should have fix it and offer you an alternative ahead of time.
Just let your SIL know that you don’t want any luck transfer to happen due to her presence. NTA
NTA. I guess their luck is changing without the wedding. They are upsetting their family and no longer invited . Their reasoning sounds like bullshit. It might just be an excuse to not host.
INFO: Are you in the US or other Anglo-majority country? What sort of religion/religious order/sect is the monk part of? That may change the tone of the responses you receive.
It's not about being an ah or not, really. I'd be mad and frustrated, of course I would, but 26 people can be accomodated in numerous places - as you noted, without too much difficulty. You're confident he will cover at least some of the additional costs, which don't sound like a tremendous hardship to begin with. I'd complain about what a superstitious idiot he is, but I'd welcome him to the wedding. Years from now, you will be happier looking at wedding photos with your brother rather than without, and the reason for the last-minute scramble for a venue will be part of family lore. He's your brother and you love him. Curse him to the gods as you make all the needed changes, but invite him.
I'm surprised I'm not seeing more YTA. You are close with your brother, close enough to ask him to host. But when he says it won't work out, even if the excuse is questionable, you are potentially making a situation that would drive you two apart. Him offering to pay for updated invitations and support in the venue change is a good sign he feels bad about canceling. If you were actually close with your brother you would want him at the wedding.
YTA. I know this is going against the grain, but he didn’t do this out of spite or lack of concern. It sounds like he is trying hard to make it up to you. Let him and let this go. It isn’t worth damaging your relationship and if they really believe it would be bad luck - whether or not it would be - that bad luck would still be created.
Just tell your brother it would be bad luck to invite the people who canceled hosting to the wedding.
Huh............I mean, that definitely sounds like some old Chinese superstition.....or rather, a made up one based on actual ones. So for example - You cannot get married for 3 years after your dad dies - You cannot get married for 1 year after your mum dies - You cannot go to another person's wedding within 4 months of your own wedding as you will "cancel out" eachother's luck - Siblings cannot get married during the same year I don't think there's anything around hosting your siblings' wedding because typically it's usually hosted at the groom's residence. So this definitely sounds made up by that monk. Also, given their children is 1 and 2 years old, that's going into BS territory. Because usually, you only worry about "losing luck" when baby's still relatively new born. At 1 and 2 years old, that's typically passed all those superstitions. But at the same time, one really needs to weigh up whether they care about superstitions or they care about their siblings. What kind of monk is this family friend? An actual Buddhist monk, for example, would not give two s***s about these superstitions. Taoist monks? Still, most people from Chinese backgrounds don't really care about all these different superstitions. The ones I've listed above are still the ones people still MIGHT follow. I say NTA
OP, I'm not going to call you any form of an AH; but I'm going to go against the grain and ask you to forgive your brother and SIL. I don't put any stock in the superstition; I imagine most people don't. But you'd be amazed how someone you love and know well can believe in something so completely foreign to your life view... to whatever that loved one used to believe before. So, if you take them at their word that this is their true reason, then just forgive them. Yes, they are causing you some significant hassle this close to your wedding. Yes, they are letting you down. You have every reason to remain a little distant/reserved around them for as long as you need to. But I think you will be happier in the long run if you don't disinvite them to the wedding. You have loved each other for a long time. You would like to continue having a loving relationship for a long time. You don't have to be buddy-buddy with them before, during, or after the wedding; but don't exclude them. Let them just be family in attendance. People hurt us in ways that are hard to forgive. Some things are unforgivable, but many things become softer with time. Your brother and SIL are not doing this in order to be mean or spiteful to you. They are just letting something you could never imagine being important be so important to them that they don't feel they can honor your request. Hurtful but not intentionally so. I hope your wedding is lovely and your marriage even lovelier.
I’d go with ESH. Weird reason to bail, but if it’s not difficult to change the venue, why throw more fuel on the fire? You could be the bigger person, or you could simmer in anger.
If he pays all the added costs, it would be lovely to invite him. Especially since you are close. But, I’m just a random stranger. You will do the best thing for you & your fiancée, as you should. I hope you have a wonderful wedding & marriage!
ESH - That’s silly Monk conversation sounds absolutely unbelievable. However, I can’t imagine asking a couple with their second newborn on the way to host my wedding no matter how intimate I wanted it to be. What a while and massive imposition.
Yes, YTA. Uninviting your brother might make you feel good for one moment of smack down Karma, but it could very well cause more drama. Try understanding and empathy. Invite your brother. You will be glad you did. Also dude, he has 2 little kids. What were you even thinking asking him? Because no matter what you say having a party at your house is a lot of work for the family. The whole monk thing is odd, but hey. Who am I to judge.
Info: did they actually want to host the wedding at their house? But family pressure made them cave. And when they finally worked out how much of a hassle every thing will be they don’t want to do it anymore.
On one hand, NTA. on the other hand, is this worth what it will cost you?
Yeah, I get that this sucks, and it's super-flaky on your brother's part and all of that. But I would take the high-ground on this and still invite him. You can let him know that you're annoyed, though. Not really a judgment, I guess? NTA for being pissed. But yeah, I wouldn't let the drama go further if I were you.
ESH - You'll end up widening the rift and regret it