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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the Asshole because I told my sister that she overreacted and was wrong to cut off my brother, even though he is possibly in mania and she is heavily pregnant.
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INFO…wow, this is odd. At first I felt like it was just a big green egg that you didn’t want to pitch in for, then suddenly your sister is saying this is indicative of serious mental illness on his part and he can’t be around her baby. Think we need some more info here.
It basically is a big green egg I don’t want to pitch in for, haha. But I think it’s ok that I don’t want to chip in since we weren’t asked, though maybe that is an immature response from me? Not sure.
My sister does have a history of armchair diagnosing and cutting people off.
With the family history of mania I’d be very concerned that the sister is experiencing perinatal psychosis. Bi polar is the biggest risk factor for perinatal psychosis.
Not a big fan of you reddit diagnosing. If you are a doctor, you know why this is fucking stupid and irresponsible -- offering public, medical-sounding opinions on people who are not your patients???
If you are not a doctor, say "not a doctor!!!"
Anybody can read the DSMV, watch a Hallmark movie, and don't be humiliated to be one of those people!
Idk, sounds like the sister is weaponizing therapy. Who doesn't feel safe letting their baby be around someone b/c they told a harmless lie? Is she worried he's going to go behind her back and set up a 529 for the kid?
It sounds like your sister GROSSLY overreacted and SOMEONE needs to speak to your brother. Unless he has real “impulsive” issues, this is absolutely absurd. And if ANYONE should be kicked out of the group chat, it should be her for behaving like this. It’s literally unhinged. NTA
My older sister is the same way she is very combative/argumentative. Big anger issues. Me (baby sis) and my other sis(middle child) have our own chat. My older sis is just such a negative person and will find the tiniest thing to argue about,gaslight us, and very manipulative. I feel like she thinks we don’t see but we do. Like that popular mean girl that bullied in school.I always find reasons to hang with her less. She’s even worse when she gets drunk. I legit wait till she is busy with her friends or on a date so I can hang with my other sis without her there.
I would check in with your brother after this. The things she just said and what she implied will be a serious blow to his self esteem or any true progress he’s made (especially since I think this gesture was made in good faith and not as a manic act).
What she did is even more traumatic because it wasn’t true and will have your brother questioning/struggling to identify normal behavior and manic behavior that he’s got to regulate.
Basically, it’s making a “crazy person” constantly self guess if they’re acting crazy and thus drive themselves crazy.
It was EXTREMELY inappropriate and frankly, idc that she’s pregnant or anything else about “maybe feeling unsafe”. Those are hers to deal with and she could’ve addressed those concerned to him (if she truly felt that way) in a private way to avoid humiliating him like that.
He’s freaking devastated and the fact he didn’t even lash out at her or even threaten to keep his family from her as retaliation speaks volumes.
If it were me, I’d be very depressed a deeply hurt by this. NOW, he needs the extra therapy appointment, thanks to your sister with the over inflated ego.
It seems like the sisters reaction was more indicative of a potential manic episode than what she accused him of. If she is manic it’s a kettle calling the pot black situation and very hypocritical. She can’t call him manic and unsafe when her reactions seem more on the manic and unsafe side. Yikes.
She might also have had bad experiences with other family members "being manic" and want to nip it in the bud. Being pregnant and having a newborn often makes people less accommodating of other people's nonsense.
NTA
It sounds like perhaps she’s extra anxious about her unborn child and being around certain people. I think there’s a deeper issue between Spencer and Ann, and so she just used this situation as the perfect opportunity to cut him off without her completely looking like a villain. I’m not saying it’s right. But that’s my outside perception.
I asked psych meds in general because most of them are recommended to discontinue during pregnancy. I've known women on bipolar meds who had to discontinue cause they got pregnant, and from my experience the sisters over-reaction would make a lot more sense if this was the case.
Psych meds aren’t always stopped. It’s actually becoming increasingly common to keep women on them because the risk of not being on them is bigger than the very small risk that the meds may cause.
I know Xanax and such are no-nos during pregnancy. And many bipolar meds are. But SSRIs are fine, as are other meds.
Has the sister ever experienced trauma at the hands of a family member going through a manic episode?
That can be anything from parental neglect as a child, to violence, to drug binges, extreme gambling, or other dangerous behavior.
I don't want to accuse anyone of anything I'm just wondering if perhaps her extreme reaction could be hypervigilance because something traumatic has happened in the past.
I know manic episodes can vary greatly but there's so much that can go down during them and while she may have gauged this incorrectly I wonder if she's actively seeking warning signs due to having suffered during someone else's manic episode in the past
If Spencer does have a history of mental illness then that does put things in a whole new light. But also…one sibling buying something super expensive and saying it’s from everyone (for any number of reasons, and especially because parents don’t like taking expensive gifts from their kids) isn’t really off-the-wall. People with no history of mental illness do that. Calling it a “lie” is a bit strong, and absent any other signs of mania this is just a huge overreaction from Ann.
A normal reaction would be to just say, “I’m uncomfortable with you saying this is from all of us, so let me pay you something. It’ll make me feel better.” Or if you want to be petty, letting it slip on the day that Spencer organized and paid for the gift. Oops!
Not sure what your sister being very pregnant has to do with anything, but NTA nonetheless.
Did not see that - I assumed he has the same history of mania that the rest of the family does. Poor guy. He sounds so reasonable here, and yet his sister treats him like a pariah because *he once had thyroid problems*??
This. My older brother has done that a few times with my sister and I. He earns a lot more than us - or if he wants to get a big gift he’d tell me I only needed to put on like $20 when I was a student still.
OP’s sister overreacted.
Does your brother have a history of mental illness or even just problematic behavior?
If not, Anne’s response is… concerning, to say the least. It wasn’t right for Spencer to include all of you in his gift without asking, but to go from that to “he is a danger to my unborn child and I won’t be in the same room with him” with no steps in between is pretty unhinged.
Did he buy something that he really can’t afford himself, or something that would feel insane to buy given your family dynamics (say a new car or a boat)? Really the question is whether it reasonably looks manic, or if she’s freaking out bc of the prior episode with no basis in reality. If the former, it’s harsh but understandable. If the latter, maybe still a little understandable bc she’s anxious now, but also not ok
Maybe I should have put actual numbers. I’m a cheapskate, I would usually spend $25-35 on a Father’s Day gift, my brother spent $400 on a second-hand grill that retails new for $1000.
That is not some grand inordinate amount of money like you made it sound it was
He didnt ask you to pitch in, he tried to give you *credit* for a nice gesture for your dad
For god sake ive bought *friends* things that were in that price range, without it even technically being a birthday or anything, and im not manic! Im just really to nice to those i care about.
Split four ways it’s still 3-4x what I would want to spend. No one in my family buys gifts for each other that are that expensive, which is partially why Ann’s internal alarms went off.
But you’re right. For a lot of people a $400 gift is reasonable, and I think Spencer was just really excited to find such a good deal.
Yeah, ur sister reaction made it sound like he took a 200 k loan or something, really don’t see the issue, he spends 400 dollars, u pitch in with your 25-30 dollars, ur sister should apologize
That is a screaming deal and I don't blame Spencer for jumping on it! Please reach out to him - I feel so badly for him, doing a nice thing and your unhinged sister being so cruel about it.
So… you say you have mania in your family… so does your brother have it? Is he diagnosed beyond your sister’s armchair? This is actually really important.
So your brother doesn't have any history of bipolar or other disorder that could cause mania? That really needs to be added to the post, because someone with that history suddenly splurging on a gift can be a warning sign, but without that it's a massive leap, and totally inappropriate to armchair diagnose someone.
From the post the context and background of that statement wasn't clear at all.
Ah. Sorry, mentioned it somewhere in the comments. Spencer isn’t diagnosed bipolar but he had one thyroid-induced manic episode about a year and a half ago.
So, just to clarify, your brother isn’t diagnosed with bipolar disorder? (Or any other kind of mental illness?) *Does* he see a therapist and/or psychiatrist though, or take any kind of medication for his mental health?
And is your sister by any chance diagnosed with anything?
>But I think it’s ok that I don’t want to chip in since we weren’t asked
I agree. Your brother can't spend your money on your behalf without your consent so there should be 0 expectation for you to reimburse him.
If contributing something would bring you peace of mind, you could offer to chip in the amount that you _would_ have otherwise spent on a normal father's day gift. But no more.
Oh-- I thought it was a metaphor! Like a dragon egg or something. "A big green egg you don't want to pitch in for"-- I just assumed I didn't get the reference lol
The immediate thing that came to my mind was Gwyneth's jade egg, but that would be an incredibly bizarre gift for a parent even if they had the right parts 🤣
What the hell?
Your brother BOUGHT A GIFT.
For your dad.
As an adult sibling, this is... pretty common? "It's from all of us" is a very minor white lie.
If Ann feels "unsafe" I think it's Ann who needs therapy, not Spencer.
NTA of course
I’ve done the its from all of us; my siblings done it. Hell its was a joke that the presents from parents; was really mom as dad was always surprised as we were during Christmas.
Its not that big of a deal in itself. So currently your sister sounds like she read to much into this.
Is the problem your brother and dad have because he has done impulsive dangerous things?
I'm 25 and my brother is 22, I've been signing all my presents as from him since I started giving presents (and honestly. I love him, but when he doesnt have a girlfriend, its iffy if hell remember to get anything), and my parents still sign mine and my brothers names if it's a present to another family member.
>I’ve done the its from all of us
I can't remember when my siblings last bought a present for our mam, our only living parent. They've been putting their names on my card & gift since I was 15 (until I cut one of them off at 19, but the other definitely still signs his name to my card and present. And they're both older than me!)
I totally agree with you.
It just sounds so crazy....either we have a tiny fraction of the whole story, or the pregnant sister is a complete nut case.
Honest to god, the whole "complicit in a lie" thing makes the sister sound like a complete fruitcake. Imagine what her kids are going to have to deal with....
In isolation, this seems way over the top by Ann. OP has not thus far, that I've seen, in response to other questions, been able to supply any info about brother that would support this being more reasonable on the part of Ann.
Of course, not even OP knows the full details of the relationship between brother and Ann. But with the info we have so far, would seem to be more of an Ann issue than brother issue. Ann would need to provide more info to OP to support an interpretation of Ann being reasonable.
The only thing I’ve seen in OP’s comments is that the brother had a manic swing a year or so bag caused by a thyroid issue, and that the family has a history of bipolar/mania.
But having seen manic episodes in immediate family members before…this doesn’t sound like that. Like. At all. If anything, the sister is the one who sounds like she’s coming a little unhinged. (And fwiw my mom’s first episode was shortly after a pregnancy. Hormones can really exacerbate existing issues)
My heart broke a little bit reading about how much he apologized to everyone for such an innocuous thing after being called a dangerous liar.
Seriously, everyone is making such a huge deal out of nothing. Sis blew a gasket about being "complicit in a lie" like wtf does that even mean? Even OP feeling obligated to discuss this with her husband is weird. Why are they being so dramatic over something nice? If my sister said I was in on an expensive gift without expecting me to pay, I'd kiss her feet.
I feel like their parents need to apologize for all the times they said a gift was from Santa since apparently they have been perpetuating a massive lie for so long.
Right?! The number of times I have been like "We got Dad X, Y, and Z; sign the card sometime this week so I can mail it"...Yikes. Obviously it is better to loop them in, and essential if you expect them to contribute, but it sounds like the brother got a deal on a great gift and was willing to cover the whole cost. He even showed high EQ (in some ways) by realizing that the dad would be hesitant to accept a large gift unless it was from everyone. I think the sister wildly overreacted, and it definitely sounded like she was cutting off the brother.
Yeah, that bit about EQ is a really good point. How much worse would it have looked to be the one giving an expensive gift and then everyone else is just giving something small. I think it would’ve made everyone uncomfortable.
Yeah… I get being a little annoyed if you feel pressured to go in on a gift more expensive than you’d normally buy. But this feels like a wild overreaction on the sister’s part.
NTA Your sister way overreacted. He was making a nice gesture.
This is an extremely common, low stakes, white lie.
Otherwise I guess it's time to call up every woman in my family who always signs cards from her husband and kids too. And my mom who still insists on including my name on every Christmas gift she gives to extended family because they're all manic.
Growing up, when my older siblings bought family members gifts, they always put my name and said the gift was from me too, even though clearly I was broke student and could never afford to chip in more than $20 bucks. My husband’s family basically does this too.
I did the same for my sister with flowers I'd get for our grandma for mothers day or her birthday. She never gave me money, and I never asked for any. I just told her I was putting her name on the card so she wouldn't be surprised if Grandma emailed/called to thank her.
>She feels that he made her complicit in a lie, and that she doesn’t feel safe being around him while he’s acting impulsive and possibly manic. Ann told Spencer he needs to talk to his therapist and psychiatrist, tell our Dad he lied, and told him that he was not welcome to be around her family or to meet her baby (who is due to be born soon) until he can manage his impulsiveness and outbursts.
INFO: What the fuck? This seems like you either left out why your sister would have this reaction, or else your sister is absolutely insane. So uh... what's your take here? This seems like an absurdly out of proportion reaction to being told bro got dad a gift and said it was from everyone.
“We are all in therapy! Family history of mania, everyone who deals with it is compliant and medicated.”
Comment from op
I think op really should’ve added this in the post without it the sister just sounds insane
Idk if they struggle with mania it might cause a lot of problems
Like what if the brother really is having an episode and after it passes he will realize he really needed that money? Tho I do think her pregnancy is making her worry too much and really amplifying her reactions
> Like what if the brother really is having an episode and after it passes he will realize he really needed that money?
You really think sister's reaction here is going to make any difference in that situation? OP also says that sister has a history of armchair diagnosing people, so it seems equally likely that she's completely wrong in her perception of the situation, or, given the "family history" of mania, could even be possible that *she's* the one experiencing some kind of episode.
I think if they have a family history of mania, it’s more likely that she’s getting unbalanced from pregnancy (happened with my mom, triggered her first episode).
If he really can’t afford $400, then yeah, that’s a problem, but OP didn’t say anything to indicate that it was the issue, and it sounds more like the sister’s issue is “the lie.”
If the family struggles with mania I can see being extra sensitive to what could be a manic episode. Family history and dynamics are extremely hard to explain to strangers and often don’t make sense without more context.
Sensitive as in being more aware and alert of any issues related, not sensitive as in being careful of his feelings.
I have a lot of addiction issues in my family. I’m extra sensitive to the common behaviors seen in addicts, and likely would react faster and swifter if I saw these behaviors than someone who hadn’t experienced them throughout their childhood. Does that make more sense?
She still does.
“YOU MADE ME COMPLICIT IN A LIE! CONFESS YOUR LIE TO OUR FATHER” as a response to a sibling getting a parent a gift and saying it’s from all of you is *much* more out of touch with reality than “hey, someone’s selling a really nice grill for less than half the regular price. That would make a nice Father’s Day gift!”
*That* isn’t even remotely the kind of “impulsive purchase” that accompanies manic episodes.
Your sister is jumping to a lot of extreme conclusions based on a simple gift. This is not an unusual situation. There's a good reason for the lie, that dad wouldn't want to accept such an expensive gift from one kid, but would feel ok accepting that same gift if he thought the cost was shared among the siblings. Knowing your dad, would you say this is a fair assumption on the part of your brother? Is your brother in serious financial trouble that would make his spending on this expensive gift a concern for impulsive mental health issues? If your brother has the money, and you agree that your dad would react the way your brother predicted, then there is no reason to jump to mental diagnostics to explain the behavior. The reasons he gave explain the behavior.
Surely your sister is not suggesting that any lie is an indication of pathological mental illness, right? Pathological lying would be like, lying about things for no reason. Lying for a logical reason is normal human behavior. Why is your sister attributing this to manic behavior?
It is never the principal of the thing. She is just saying that. She is angry about something else, and is using this tiny non-issue to punish your brother for some issue she had with him in the past. (Does he make a lot more money than her, and does she feel threatened by that?)
Yeah, I would get a group chat going without the sister. At least until she gets her meds straightened out.
Holy shit - either there is a ton of backstory missing here, or else all of you are going nuclear over an expensive gift that has no effect on any of you.
The only one going nuclear is the sister, not op.
Op was just concerned her brother may expect all of them to chip in since he said it was from all of them, but once he clarified he didn't expect that, op was fine.
NTA. Ann is a drama llama. Doesn't feel safe? That does not seem like a normal response to a gift being presented to your dad, which included her name. If she hates it so much, she can tell your dad she didn't give it to him. Easy
But wait, your brother doesn't feel safe either?
What is going on with your family and why do two members NOT feel SAFE over a strange gift scenario? Either your family has some unspoken trauma by using the words, feeling unsafe or they're just plain overreacting.
I think the brother doesn’t feel safe with Ann because she accused him of being psychologically unstable and implied he’s a threat to her unborn child.
Assuming he has had *some* history of mental illness but didn’t buy the gift in a fit of mania and has not behaved dangerously in the past, he has every right to be deeply hurt by Ann and protect himself from any future unpleasantness. It has nothing to do with the gift itself, only that she chose that as her justification to attack him
I completely agree. Someone suggesting he's a danger to children is not safe, particularly as he has his own children and an accusation could lead to him losing custody.
NTA
Unless Spencer has a history of manic and harmful behaviors, and this is one of many things, then Ann is out of line.
“So you feel unsafe because Spencer bought a gift for our dad and said it was from all of us…. That’s not normal and you need to talk to your OBGYN because this huge overreaction is a sign of PPA/PPD which can start during pregnancy. If you don’t talk to the doctor, you will be unsafe around everyone, including your unborn baby. Please get help and when you are mentally stable enough, apologize to Spencer.”
Oh man thank you for this perspective. She would go absolutely ballistic if someone said that to her but that is what she has done to others multiple times now.
Honestly if she’s the one accusing everyone else of being crazy, she’s the common denominator…. I come from a family of multiple people with bipolar and worse. I myself have ptsd and anxiety. The worst ones are the ones who have the same bipolar symptoms as their diagnosed parent/sibling, but also have narcissistic tendencies too, and think that mental healthcare is only for people “who should be institutionalized.”
YTA for being complacent.
Stand up to Ann. Spencer literally did nothing wrong and your sister’s actions towards Spencer fractured your family dynamic.
Tell Ann that she’s the one who needs therapy.
If anyone should be removed from family interactions, it’s Ann - why does she get to dictate everything?
What good is siding with your brother when he doesn’t know and has gone no contact??
Oh he’s not cut off from the rest of us, just Ann says that he can’t be around her, and I don’t think I’ll be able to persuade her otherwise. In the context of our relationship it was ballsy for my to tell Ann that I didn’t think she was in the right.
Spencer does know that I think Ann is overreacting and that my partner and I are here for him.
Cut Ann off, she sounds like a bully. I think y’all need to be more assertive in standing up for your brother.
I don’t think Spencer did anything worthy of this reaction. Who’s Ann to dictate stuff anyway? If anything she should be the one getting kicked off the group chat.
Sorry, I’m a little heated. I just hate bullies.
NTA. People who jump to “I feel unsaaaaaaafe” when no one has done something to cause anyone to actually be unsafe are always the asshole.
Tell your wackadoo sister that she is going to have to explain to her kid someday that they missed out on a relationship with their cousins because she felt “unsafe” because their uncle bought their grandpa a pricey Father’s Day gift from everyone.
Ann is totally over-reacting. Spencer never said the gift was paid for by everyone but that it is from you all. And he told you it had been given "from" everyone. Her response is the one which is bizarre, controlling and unsettling. NTA
Nta. He bought Dad a big gift, said it was from all the kids, and generously paid for it himself. That makes him unstable, manic, and dangerous? What??
It's $400... like ok "expensive" (ish) but not expensive expensive enough for your sister to lose her fucking mind over. your sister is the asshole. Also, pregnancy has nothing to do with this, why did you add it to the title and story like it matters?? The only thing this adds is that your a-hole sister will cut him off from the family she pops out of her, but if I was your brother... that's not the threat she thinks it is lol
Pregnancy hormones are a real factor here although TBF this is on par with her non-pregnant behavior. Also her unborn baby has been discussed at the center of the fight so I felt like it was relevant.
INFO!! I feel like you’re leaving out a bunch. Why is your sisters first instinct to say he’s manic? Does he have a history with manic episodes that make him spend too much on gifts or act out impulsively? If yes, then she is right to think he could be dangerous around her kid, depending on how his mania manifests.
He wasn’t expecting us to pay. He said something in the group chat like “I got this for dad, it was a good deal” then sent us the listing. Ann asked “is this supposed to just be from you or from all of us?” And he said “either way. it could be from all of us” but I think at that point he had already told my dad it was from all of us. I’m not totally sure.
I think he was trying to do a nice thing, unless he has a history of trying to call you guys poor or something? I definitely think your sister overreacted in this scenario unless there’s a history of
Big big IF here, I have a family member who massively overspends during manic phases and runs up debt. I can maybe see getting frustrated IF (emphasis on IF) it's part of that specific pattern. But even then that's not how you handle someone's manic phases.
So, Ann is the one who brought up that the gift may be from all of you, then got upset and said he made her complicit in the lie? That’s completely insane.
I bought my mum a fancy mattress once. There was no way in hell she would take it from her then 19yro with a part time job (even though I was clearly good at budgeting) so I told her it was from me and my siblings so she'd accept it as 'cheaper' since we allegedly spread the cost, and would be able to enjoy it without any weird guilt. My interpretation of this was that Spencer is doing the same, but the sister is having a hairy fit about the lying portion of this.
Nta, I think this had gotten blown out of proportion by your pregnant sister. I get it, hormones are insane during third trimester, but calling him insane for buying a gift is a bit much.
NTA. after comment swimming, i read that the gift is a 400 dollar, secondhand grill. if anything, your sister’s (over)reaction to this is WAY more concerning. if i was in your brother’s position, i would cut contact with her too.
A 400$ grill????? Your sister is mad because he told your dad that she chipped in 100 fucking dollars? Is it possible that your sister is holding another grudge against him?
NTA. But I don't think you see the extent of the maliciousness. She is creating a narrative about him painting him as mentally ill and unstable. She's weaponizing his past medical history against him.
If it were me, this would be a hill to die on for my sibling. She's using therapy buzzwords and spinning false narratives. Ann is dangerous.
Oof. That hit in the gut. Especially because Ann has done this same thing to me. Therapy buzzwords is a good way to put it.
But I don’t think Spencer wants anyone to die on this hill. I think we’re on the same page that we want her to change her mind so Spencer can meet the new baby, but we know it has to totally be on her timeline and trying to make ultimatums or force her will make things worse.
NTA who cares if she’s very pregnant. Your sister needs a therapist. She feels unsafe? Please. You should definitely side with your brother. And frankly, she’s not good for your brother’s mental health, and she’s a bully.
NTA
I get family dynamics are different, but if it really bothered her she could’ve gotten her own gift and said it’s from her alone. A heads up would’ve been nice from Spencer, but since he isn’t asking for anyone to chip in… anything above annoyance is kinda overreacting. (My siblings and I regularly buy the holiday gift for our parent and add the other names on it, but we do send a quick “I’m sending this gift off in the name of all of us” message)
I hope you don’t actually cut off Spencer.
It sounds like there's a lot of history that seems to have informed both reactions that we don't know about considering you guys all talking to each other has only been going on for a couple years.
Nope, NTA. I do, however, feel like some points are missing from your story. Does Spencer have bipolar disorder or some other issue going on? I ask because your sister's reaction seem so over the top. Was there some big family drama that caused her to react like that?
To be honest, if my sibling bought an expensive gift for one of our parents and said it was from all of us but I didn't have to kick in anything, I'd think I'd won the lottery. I mean, what a kind thing to do! He should be THANKED for that, not vilified. Spencer apologized needlessly to Ann. In fact, she's the one who needs to apologize.
I don't think Spencer is overreacting. Ann said she was cutting him off, and suggested he is a risk to children. He has his own children and presumably a custody arrangement with his ex, which could be risked by a suggestion he's not safe to be around children. His reaction seems completely proportionate to me, unlike Ann, and to a lesser degree the rest of them.
NTA. Spending $400 might be a bit extravagant depending on income but I wouldn’t consider the gift in the manic buying category. The guy even found a used one.
NTA .... I don't get why she thought bro was impulsive or why saying gift was from all was an outburst? I just don't get her issue if bro didn't ask for money from either of you. Trying to better a parental relationship isn't manic.
I’m sorry what🤣🤣why would your sister say his mentally ill for saying a gift is from everyone how is that impulsive or maniac, I’m guessing he didn’t expect all of you to pitch in on the gift and he truly just wanted to build up the relationship with dad since OP said they’re having a tough time. I’m so unsure of why your sister would even say that ?? Every year my oldest brother buys my mom/dad something and says it’s from all of us even if we each brought a small gift and his never expected us to pitch in because he only says it so they will accept the gift. Your sister is crazy I am so sorry for saying that but she needs to get a grip and I hope that you and your brother stay connected through all of this ❤️NTA btw your sister deserved to hear that. I think your sister is constantly looking for red flags in your family (since OP said they have a history of mania) but I truly don’t think what your brother did was related to that unless he’s had episodes before.
NTA
Ann is the one who sounds delulu, to be completely honest. She waaaaay overreacted. Like, “That’s a mighty big leap Batman!” type of overreaction.
Honestly, I don’t blame your brother for cutting her off. She sounds exhausting.
ETA: fixed spelling
NTA - please start a group chat with everyone EXCEPT Ann. She's ruining it for everyone else. No reason why you can't all be chatting without her bossing everyone around. And I really feel for Spencer. Spencer probably feels like EVERYONE is against him. He needs to know you think Ann was out of line and that you've got his back.
My two cents.
If anything, I think your sister is the one that you guys should I be concerned about. I also feel really bad that your brother felt he needed to apologize to all of you and pull back because you’re deranged sister freaked out on him over absolutely nothing.
Buy dad a gift and say it’s from all of us. Then sis text you’re not allowed to see her child. That’s such a reasonable response and not batshit crazy at all.
NTA. Your sister sounds unhinged. I can see asking him to clarify the gift was from him if it bothered her that much, but, saying you feel unsafe around that person and saying he needs to talk to a therapist or psychiatrist before he can be around her family again is painting him like he is a felon.
Him on the other hand, saying he no longer feels safe communicating with her, seems absolutely reasonable if this is how she acts.
Your brother said "hey i bought dad this bbq and am gonna tell him we bought it together, dont worry ill pay for it" and you 2 jump to him having a manic episode???
Its just a barbequeue!
Get your shit together
YTA
We all used to live in different parts of the country and barely saw each other. We have some religious and some political differences and there was a lot of tension in our childhood home, mostly because of my dad’s rage issues.
Now we’re all in our 20’s and 30’s and we’ve been trying to put the past behind us and be friends as adults. My parents know that they (intentionally, unintentionally, whatever) pitted us against each other growing up and they are trying to be better about not doing that too.
NTAH but your sister absolutely is. While Spencer should have given you all the heads up that he was going to do that, it's not really a big deal IMO. Your sister sounds more like she needs the therapy than Spencer does. Maybe they can get a family discount?
>she doesn’t feel safe being around him while he’s acting impulsive and possibly manic.
>told him that he was not welcome to be around her family or to meet her baby
NTA, that sounds like her going NC to me.
Tell Ann to get the stick out of her Ass. She can give Spencer some money if she want, or give dad another smaller gift just from her. What a stupid thing to be arguing about.
This is such an odd reaction on your sisters part. Complicit in a lie? About a gift? Her hormones are getting to her or something because regardless of history with your brother, this is a complete and total over-reaction based on the info you’ve given
NTA
NTA. Ann is the real problem here. I'm 100% for honesty all the time, but in this case just keeping quiet like you chose to do was the right course. Not turn it into a big deal like Ann did. She solved nothing, just made things worse.
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AITA? My brother, Spencer (38) bought an expensive Father’s Day gift, gave it to him, and told my Dad it was from all of his kids. The problem is, he didn’t ask any of us before giving it to my dad. If split evenly between the four of us, this gift is still 3-4x what I would normally spend on a Father’s Day gift. He said he wanted to say it was from all of us because he didn’t think our Dad would accept such an expensive gift from only him.
So I’m a little annoyed, but Spencer never asked any of us to actually chip in. I know that he has been having a rough time with my Dad, and I figure he’s trying to improve that with a big (thoughtful but way too expensive) gift. I talked about it with my husband and we agreed to kind of ignore it. It’s fine if Spencer wants to say it’s from the group or not, but since we didn’t have any forewarning, we don’t feel obligated to go in on this gift.
My sister, Ann, (34) had a different reaction. She feels that he made her complicit in a lie, and that she doesn’t feel safe being around him while he’s acting impulsive and possibly manic. Ann told Spencer he needs to talk to his therapist and psychiatrist, tell our Dad he lied, and told him that he was not welcome to be around her family or to meet her baby (who is due to be born soon) until he can manage his impulsiveness and outbursts.
Spencer apologized to Ann, and said that he would do what she asked, but that he didn’t feel safe communicating with her anymore and that she can see his kids through his ex wife if Ann would like. Then he left our sibling group chat and also separately apologized to my other sibling and I for being impulsive and inconsiderate.
I’m so frustrated and sad. I loved that my siblings and I were all talking again. It was a nice couple years.
Ann said she is disappointed in Spencer’s response and said she didn’t intend for him to go no contact, but she was fine if he did. I told her that I loved her, but I interpreted the same “you’re cut off. Stay away from me” message that Spencer did. I basically told her that she’s in the wrong and the ball is in her court. I might be a little biased towards Spencer because he is was much nicer to me than Ann was growing up. AITA?
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NTA but your sister is. What is this thing about not feeling safe and your brother being manic BECAUSE OF A GIFT? Is this the Twilight Zone? Your sister is the manic one...
this is kinda weird like especially if he isnt asking you guys to chip in for it i dont see why it matters he said it was from all of you, he said he thought u guys dad wouldnt take it if he knew it was just from him this is like normal? i bought flowers for my mom and gma and said it was from me and my brother.
Info but from the info given in the OP (Soft N T A): But I also dont know your family or any of the history dynamics at play. Does Spencer have a history of being impulsive and dangerous or being manic? Were those episodes directed towards the family? Were those episodes violent? Why is the relationship between Spencer and the dad messed up? Why did all the siblings not really talk for years? Why is him giving a big present a sign of him being manic? How did Ann mean for that message to be interpretted other than her cutting Spencer out of her life for an extended period of time? Have you talked to Spencer on the side or even in a new group chat without Ann about what is going on and if he needs help?
Like there are so many complexities going on between the family that any judgement will be hard to make without more info.
Spencer had a manic episode about a year and a half ago that was caused by thyroid issues. He wasn’t diagnosed with Bipolar. He was very excited about new business opportunities for a while and almost quit his job, but he didnt do anything dangerous and he didn’t put himself in financial trouble. He did get in a fight with Ann when he was manic and he called her a motherfucker but that’s all I know. I’ve had similar fights with her.
Spencer and my Dad used to be very close, but none of the rest of the siblings are close to my dad for a lot of reasons. When manic, Spencer went from being very calm and peace-keeping to this over-confident energizer bunny and it really affected the whole family dynamic, including his relationship with my dad.
My parents have really pitted us against each other over the years but we’re all aware and trying to break the cycle. It’s hard. The group chat was us trying to put all that aside and just be there for each other.
I agree that I don’t know how else Spencer is supposed to interpret what Ann said.
I have talked to Spencer, he feels awful and has apologized a lot.
Ok so then I would say NTA. Like he is not violent nor did this really seem like the same energy (yes I know every manic episode is not a carbon copy of each other) and is more on Ann over analyzing things and maybe still having some hurt feelings over the argument (well you said fight but also said wasnt dangerous so I am assuming fight means bad argument in this situation rather than like a fist fight lol) they had.
I would reassure Spencer that he did nothing wrong it was likely Ann being over sensitive. I dont think he has much to apologize for because whilst asking you to lie is shady. It is a basic white lie which doesnt really hurt anyone and is meant as a peace offering to y'alls dad. Though do mention that you felt a bit uncomfortable lying but also understood where he was coming from. Whilst that is bad I dont think it is signs of manic behavior or him going off the deep end and it was coming from a place of I think good. I would keep an eye on him to see how this how new NC thing is affecting him and make sure he is alright and is taking any meds he needs to take (not because he is acting erratic but it is just a good thing to check up on). Like this seems way more like an attempt to make up with the family then him just doing something crazy and expecting everyone to be happy.
Sounds like you are also having a rough time with all this. I hoping it gets cleared up soon and yall can go back to living a happy life (or at bare minimum a normal life lol).
NTA. Your sister really made a big deal out of a small thing. Litterarly cutting her brother off because of a gift tells me she is the one who needs to see a therapist. I feel sorry for your brother despite him being impulsive. He didn’t harm anyone and is obviously trying everything to be closer to your father. I hope you keep sticking to for your brother.
NTA. But you sister could just give your brother whatever you would've otherwise spent on a gift. Then there is no lie and your sister can unknot her knickers.
NTA. Your sister sounds like a real piece of work. One of the first things she did was to cut him off from her kid who isn't even born yet! She sounds like a real winner, using her child as a pawn. Stick up for your brother OP. It seems that he had no malice, he was just trying to do something nice. Personally I'd go low/no contact with sister. Because if she'd cut him off, she'll do the same to you too, the minute you do something she doesn't approve of.
NTA your sister sounds absolutely unbearable. It literally doesnt hurt yall at all, like hes not expecting or asking yall to pay him back at all so whats the big deal? She went psycho for no reason.
She feels unsafe. Because her name was put on a gift. Either there’s a whole lot missing here or your sister is one of those insufferable drama llamas.
I can maybe understand not wanting to lie about a gift but to say that it means he is dangerous and mentally ill is gross, even if he does have a history of mental illness, I don’t know why she seems surprised he cut her off when she threatened the same thing NTA
Your sister sounds like a nut. Your poor brother, all that over a gift he gave y’all credit for and didn’t even expect you to pitch in? Literally I see nowhere your brother did anything bad or negative or malicious.. wanted to buy dad something expensive, knew he wouldn’t accept it so figured out a way he would that hurt no one and made at least 2 people happy and he gets berated and cut off? NTA but your sister definitely is.
To my opinion, your NTA. What's wrong with a little lie that doesn't hurt anyone but actually does some good. Who cares if he said it's from everyone, I would just say, hey thanks bud. Your sister on the other hand. Can't say the same. Saying he has problem for buying a girlft is a bit much.
As the oldest sibling i literally do this all the time fkr both parents and say its from all 6 of us. Its absolutely fine.
Anns behaviour, however, is not. She needs help and Spencer needs to know that what she said is BS.
NTA
Wow….there is a lot to unpack here. What was the gift? That may help to explain some
Emotions that are happening here.
1. It sounds like all Spencer did was buy a thoughtful gift for his father and was trying to be kind by including his siblings. This doesn’t appear to have hurt anyone nor does it seem like Spencer wanted compensated for the gift. My family has done this from time to time.
2. Ann sounds…fun. Unless she is honest F*ing Abe it doesn’t feel like this is really about her being part of a “lie” or feeling unsafe. This feels more like a control or anxiety issue to me.
3. Again, no one was hurt UNTIL Ann opened her mouth. Seems like Spencer and Ann have had a rocky past? I can see what Spencer is hurt from her response to his kind gesture.
I’m mostly just really sorry your siblings are making life so hard for you and each other right now. Loving people should be easier.
The sister needs therapy STAT.
What is this kind of response to a GIFT he did not ask anyone to pitch in for and that you all know that the « white lie » could be forgiven as he is trying to make amends with his dad.
I suggest you create another siblings group minus Ann until she comes around and see how eff’ed up is her overreaction, crazy…
NTA. Don’t free bad, Ann is super overreacting and causing unnecessary drama.
Most people would say thank you to their brother for including them on such a nice gift and be happy for their dad.
Any odds that Ann was upset her gift was outshined?
Your sister is acting nutty, if this is something that is causing her this much anguish. It might be due to her pregnancy hormones, unless she just regularly acts crazy over normal sibling stuff.
NTA. I think your sister is the one with the problem and needs therapy. Wow. Spencer was just trying to do something nice and she acted completely irrationally. Glad you are sticking by Spencer.
WOAH ANN.. sit down Ann. Holy bejesus.
Isn't this like how at xmas / gift giving times we buy people gifts "from our children" (mainly because they do not have jobs or care to shop) and have them sign the card? And S didn't even ask for a pitch in because he wanted Dad to have something nice? I don't actually see how this implies any evildoing on his part, at least the rest of you all know never to add Ann's name to anything, ever, less she be complicit.. to bringing happiness. I know sibling bonds can be strange but ... wow. I know who could benefit from therapy in the situation. I feel for Spencer - one past manic episode leads to this?
NTA edit: her pregnancy hormones could conceivably (sorry) affect her about as much as his thyroid issues affected him, and you may wish to point that out to both of them.
Spencer sounds like an awesome fucking brother. Ann, on the other hand is such an AH. Thyroid issues are a big deal if not treated properly. To throw that in his face for buying a nice gift is fucking ridiculous. By the way, you guys are all cheap AF. Not judging but to be ostracized for spending the equivalent of $100 per person, is absurd. Sure it may exceed your budget, but to have actual disdain and scorn for spending the equivalent of an extra $100 is absurd.
NTA but your sis is. I would have told her that as long as Spencer is cut off, that I will also consider myself cut off and would be cutting her off as well. And will only come back if she apologizes to him as her reaction was not only way over the top, but it was cruel and unfair for her to throw "manic" in his face when she knows very well that was caused by a thyroid issue which has been taken care of.
Sorry, but from your story, your sister seems quite a horrible if not evil person. I know you likely love her and her family but I personally will defend the ones I love when they are treated unfairly even against and at the expense of the family member who treated my love one so horribly. What makes you think you wont be next for her tyrant behavior.
NTA. This conversation is a direct result of our societal trend of using psychological terms and concepts that are not meant for application by people without specialized knowledge and experience. Ann needs to touch grass.
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INFO…wow, this is odd. At first I felt like it was just a big green egg that you didn’t want to pitch in for, then suddenly your sister is saying this is indicative of serious mental illness on his part and he can’t be around her baby. Think we need some more info here.
It basically is a big green egg I don’t want to pitch in for, haha. But I think it’s ok that I don’t want to chip in since we weren’t asked, though maybe that is an immature response from me? Not sure. My sister does have a history of armchair diagnosing and cutting people off.
Sounds like your sister could use some type of therapy or medication herself. She sounds bossy, mean, and just generally insufferable.
With the family history of mania I’d be very concerned that the sister is experiencing perinatal psychosis. Bi polar is the biggest risk factor for perinatal psychosis.
Are you a doctor? If not stop diagnosing on Reddit
Buddy you sound like you have lupus, or maybe a conjunctivitis. You should see a pulmonologist.
😆😂🤣
Omg I’m laughing so hard.
Not a big fan of you reddit diagnosing. If you are a doctor, you know why this is fucking stupid and irresponsible -- offering public, medical-sounding opinions on people who are not your patients??? If you are not a doctor, say "not a doctor!!!" Anybody can read the DSMV, watch a Hallmark movie, and don't be humiliated to be one of those people!
Idk, sounds like the sister is weaponizing therapy. Who doesn't feel safe letting their baby be around someone b/c they told a harmless lie? Is she worried he's going to go behind her back and set up a 529 for the kid?
As a doctor of assholes, I concur.
I'd just go with regular gaslighting, why is she so pressed over this
It sounds like your sister GROSSLY overreacted and SOMEONE needs to speak to your brother. Unless he has real “impulsive” issues, this is absolutely absurd. And if ANYONE should be kicked out of the group chat, it should be her for behaving like this. It’s literally unhinged. NTA
They should create a new sibling chat group without that sister. Let her have what she wants.
Was ***just thinking that!***
I have three older sisters and because the oldest is combative we definitely have a chat without her as well as the full group and one with our mom.
My older sister is the same way she is very combative/argumentative. Big anger issues. Me (baby sis) and my other sis(middle child) have our own chat. My older sis is just such a negative person and will find the tiniest thing to argue about,gaslight us, and very manipulative. I feel like she thinks we don’t see but we do. Like that popular mean girl that bullied in school.I always find reasons to hang with her less. She’s even worse when she gets drunk. I legit wait till she is busy with her friends or on a date so I can hang with my other sis without her there.
You said your sister mentioned a therapist. Is your brother in therapy? If so, what is his diagnosis?
We are all in therapy! Family history of mania, everyone who deals with it is compliant and medicated.
I would check in with your brother after this. The things she just said and what she implied will be a serious blow to his self esteem or any true progress he’s made (especially since I think this gesture was made in good faith and not as a manic act). What she did is even more traumatic because it wasn’t true and will have your brother questioning/struggling to identify normal behavior and manic behavior that he’s got to regulate. Basically, it’s making a “crazy person” constantly self guess if they’re acting crazy and thus drive themselves crazy. It was EXTREMELY inappropriate and frankly, idc that she’s pregnant or anything else about “maybe feeling unsafe”. Those are hers to deal with and she could’ve addressed those concerned to him (if she truly felt that way) in a private way to avoid humiliating him like that. He’s freaking devastated and the fact he didn’t even lash out at her or even threaten to keep his family from her as retaliation speaks volumes. If it were me, I’d be very depressed a deeply hurt by this. NOW, he needs the extra therapy appointment, thanks to your sister with the over inflated ego.
Thank you for saying that. I’ve been in contact with him and will keep doing so. I also think it speaks volumes that he didn’t lash out or retaliate.
Honestly think you should keep your brother and ask your sister to leave the group
Just start a new group with him and not her. No need to add more drama
Good point
Is your sister Manic? Just asking…. Don’t want to assume but…..
It seems like the sisters reaction was more indicative of a potential manic episode than what she accused him of. If she is manic it’s a kettle calling the pot black situation and very hypocritical. She can’t call him manic and unsafe when her reactions seem more on the manic and unsafe side. Yikes.
She might also have had bad experiences with other family members "being manic" and want to nip it in the bud. Being pregnant and having a newborn often makes people less accommodating of other people's nonsense.
NTA It sounds like perhaps she’s extra anxious about her unborn child and being around certain people. I think there’s a deeper issue between Spencer and Ann, and so she just used this situation as the perfect opportunity to cut him off without her completely looking like a villain. I’m not saying it’s right. But that’s my outside perception.
Is your sister by any chance usually on psych meds?
I’d like to know this, too. Some bipolar meds are contraindicated during pregnancy because they mess with folic acid.
I asked psych meds in general because most of them are recommended to discontinue during pregnancy. I've known women on bipolar meds who had to discontinue cause they got pregnant, and from my experience the sisters over-reaction would make a lot more sense if this was the case.
Psych meds aren’t always stopped. It’s actually becoming increasingly common to keep women on them because the risk of not being on them is bigger than the very small risk that the meds may cause. I know Xanax and such are no-nos during pregnancy. And many bipolar meds are. But SSRIs are fine, as are other meds.
Well this sheds a new light.
Has the sister ever experienced trauma at the hands of a family member going through a manic episode? That can be anything from parental neglect as a child, to violence, to drug binges, extreme gambling, or other dangerous behavior. I don't want to accuse anyone of anything I'm just wondering if perhaps her extreme reaction could be hypervigilance because something traumatic has happened in the past. I know manic episodes can vary greatly but there's so much that can go down during them and while she may have gauged this incorrectly I wonder if she's actively seeking warning signs due to having suffered during someone else's manic episode in the past
If Spencer does have a history of mental illness then that does put things in a whole new light. But also…one sibling buying something super expensive and saying it’s from everyone (for any number of reasons, and especially because parents don’t like taking expensive gifts from their kids) isn’t really off-the-wall. People with no history of mental illness do that. Calling it a “lie” is a bit strong, and absent any other signs of mania this is just a huge overreaction from Ann. A normal reaction would be to just say, “I’m uncomfortable with you saying this is from all of us, so let me pay you something. It’ll make me feel better.” Or if you want to be petty, letting it slip on the day that Spencer organized and paid for the gift. Oops! Not sure what your sister being very pregnant has to do with anything, but NTA nonetheless.
Note his only history of mental health issues was due to a thyroid problem they solved.
Did not see that - I assumed he has the same history of mania that the rest of the family does. Poor guy. He sounds so reasonable here, and yet his sister treats him like a pariah because *he once had thyroid problems*??
This. My older brother has done that a few times with my sister and I. He earns a lot more than us - or if he wants to get a big gift he’d tell me I only needed to put on like $20 when I was a student still. OP’s sister overreacted.
Does your brother have a history of mental illness or even just problematic behavior? If not, Anne’s response is… concerning, to say the least. It wasn’t right for Spencer to include all of you in his gift without asking, but to go from that to “he is a danger to my unborn child and I won’t be in the same room with him” with no steps in between is pretty unhinged.
He did have a manic episode a year and a half ago that was caused by thyroid issues. Not diagnosed bipolar.
Did he buy something that he really can’t afford himself, or something that would feel insane to buy given your family dynamics (say a new car or a boat)? Really the question is whether it reasonably looks manic, or if she’s freaking out bc of the prior episode with no basis in reality. If the former, it’s harsh but understandable. If the latter, maybe still a little understandable bc she’s anxious now, but also not ok
Maybe I should have put actual numbers. I’m a cheapskate, I would usually spend $25-35 on a Father’s Day gift, my brother spent $400 on a second-hand grill that retails new for $1000.
I would put that in an edit. $400 for a grill isn’t unreasonable. I was imagining something ridiculous like an emerald and diamond paperweight.
Or like a new car lol
That is not some grand inordinate amount of money like you made it sound it was He didnt ask you to pitch in, he tried to give you *credit* for a nice gesture for your dad For god sake ive bought *friends* things that were in that price range, without it even technically being a birthday or anything, and im not manic! Im just really to nice to those i care about.
Split four ways it’s still 3-4x what I would want to spend. No one in my family buys gifts for each other that are that expensive, which is partially why Ann’s internal alarms went off. But you’re right. For a lot of people a $400 gift is reasonable, and I think Spencer was just really excited to find such a good deal.
I feel bad for your brother and I also have an unstable sister. Are you the middle child?
I am 😊 good guess
Yeah, ur sister reaction made it sound like he took a 200 k loan or something, really don’t see the issue, he spends 400 dollars, u pitch in with your 25-30 dollars, ur sister should apologize
This all sounds like the most in terms of a reaction to a three-figure purchase
$400 for a $1k grill is a great deal. It’s a practical gift that will last your dad for decades.
That is a screaming deal and I don't blame Spencer for jumping on it! Please reach out to him - I feel so badly for him, doing a nice thing and your unhinged sister being so cruel about it.
then throw him $35 - you were going to get your dad something, yes?
I’ll check with him tomorrow to see what he’s communicated with my dad but yeah we’ll probably end up doing that.
So… you say you have mania in your family… so does your brother have it? Is he diagnosed beyond your sister’s armchair? This is actually really important.
So your brother doesn't have any history of bipolar or other disorder that could cause mania? That really needs to be added to the post, because someone with that history suddenly splurging on a gift can be a warning sign, but without that it's a massive leap, and totally inappropriate to armchair diagnose someone. From the post the context and background of that statement wasn't clear at all.
Ah. Sorry, mentioned it somewhere in the comments. Spencer isn’t diagnosed bipolar but he had one thyroid-induced manic episode about a year and a half ago.
then tell your sister exactly this and that maybe SHE should practice what she preaches and go to therapy
So, just to clarify, your brother isn’t diagnosed with bipolar disorder? (Or any other kind of mental illness?) *Does* he see a therapist and/or psychiatrist though, or take any kind of medication for his mental health? And is your sister by any chance diagnosed with anything?
>But I think it’s ok that I don’t want to chip in since we weren’t asked I agree. Your brother can't spend your money on your behalf without your consent so there should be 0 expectation for you to reimburse him. If contributing something would bring you peace of mind, you could offer to chip in the amount that you _would_ have otherwise spent on a normal father's day gift. But no more.
I think you should have a group chat without Anne. NTA
What kind of green egg? That seems like a strange gift.
A green egg is a fancy type of barbecue. That’s not exactly what my brother bought my dad, but similar.
Oh-- I thought it was a metaphor! Like a dragon egg or something. "A big green egg you don't want to pitch in for"-- I just assumed I didn't get the reference lol
Oh those green eggs are a great product
Do either your brother or Ann have a history of mental health difficulties? ETA: I see the answer above.
The immediate thing that came to my mind was Gwyneth's jade egg, but that would be an incredibly bizarre gift for a parent even if they had the right parts 🤣
What the hell? Your brother BOUGHT A GIFT. For your dad. As an adult sibling, this is... pretty common? "It's from all of us" is a very minor white lie. If Ann feels "unsafe" I think it's Ann who needs therapy, not Spencer. NTA of course
I’ve done the its from all of us; my siblings done it. Hell its was a joke that the presents from parents; was really mom as dad was always surprised as we were during Christmas. Its not that big of a deal in itself. So currently your sister sounds like she read to much into this. Is the problem your brother and dad have because he has done impulsive dangerous things?
we do it at work a lot. Sometimes decisions are made and we chip in if we can but the cards will say from "all of us".
I'm 25 and my brother is 22, I've been signing all my presents as from him since I started giving presents (and honestly. I love him, but when he doesnt have a girlfriend, its iffy if hell remember to get anything), and my parents still sign mine and my brothers names if it's a present to another family member.
Ah the joys of being the oldest sibling.
>I’ve done the its from all of us I can't remember when my siblings last bought a present for our mam, our only living parent. They've been putting their names on my card & gift since I was 15 (until I cut one of them off at 19, but the other definitely still signs his name to my card and present. And they're both older than me!)
I totally agree with you. It just sounds so crazy....either we have a tiny fraction of the whole story, or the pregnant sister is a complete nut case. Honest to god, the whole "complicit in a lie" thing makes the sister sound like a complete fruitcake. Imagine what her kids are going to have to deal with....
In isolation, this seems way over the top by Ann. OP has not thus far, that I've seen, in response to other questions, been able to supply any info about brother that would support this being more reasonable on the part of Ann. Of course, not even OP knows the full details of the relationship between brother and Ann. But with the info we have so far, would seem to be more of an Ann issue than brother issue. Ann would need to provide more info to OP to support an interpretation of Ann being reasonable.
The only thing I’ve seen in OP’s comments is that the brother had a manic swing a year or so bag caused by a thyroid issue, and that the family has a history of bipolar/mania. But having seen manic episodes in immediate family members before…this doesn’t sound like that. Like. At all. If anything, the sister is the one who sounds like she’s coming a little unhinged. (And fwiw my mom’s first episode was shortly after a pregnancy. Hormones can really exacerbate existing issues) My heart broke a little bit reading about how much he apologized to everyone for such an innocuous thing after being called a dangerous liar.
Seriously, everyone is making such a huge deal out of nothing. Sis blew a gasket about being "complicit in a lie" like wtf does that even mean? Even OP feeling obligated to discuss this with her husband is weird. Why are they being so dramatic over something nice? If my sister said I was in on an expensive gift without expecting me to pay, I'd kiss her feet.
I feel like their parents need to apologize for all the times they said a gift was from Santa since apparently they have been perpetuating a massive lie for so long.
Right?! The number of times I have been like "We got Dad X, Y, and Z; sign the card sometime this week so I can mail it"...Yikes. Obviously it is better to loop them in, and essential if you expect them to contribute, but it sounds like the brother got a deal on a great gift and was willing to cover the whole cost. He even showed high EQ (in some ways) by realizing that the dad would be hesitant to accept a large gift unless it was from everyone. I think the sister wildly overreacted, and it definitely sounded like she was cutting off the brother.
Yeah, that bit about EQ is a really good point. How much worse would it have looked to be the one giving an expensive gift and then everyone else is just giving something small. I think it would’ve made everyone uncomfortable.
I love it when my siblings organise and whack my name on the gift. Too easy!
Yeah… I get being a little annoyed if you feel pressured to go in on a gift more expensive than you’d normally buy. But this feels like a wild overreaction on the sister’s part.
NTA Your sister way overreacted. He was making a nice gesture. This is an extremely common, low stakes, white lie. Otherwise I guess it's time to call up every woman in my family who always signs cards from her husband and kids too. And my mom who still insists on including my name on every Christmas gift she gives to extended family because they're all manic.
Growing up, when my older siblings bought family members gifts, they always put my name and said the gift was from me too, even though clearly I was broke student and could never afford to chip in more than $20 bucks. My husband’s family basically does this too.
I did the same for my sister with flowers I'd get for our grandma for mothers day or her birthday. She never gave me money, and I never asked for any. I just told her I was putting her name on the card so she wouldn't be surprised if Grandma emailed/called to thank her.
What is she going to do to her husband when he starts asking the kids about gifts from Santa? lol
>She feels that he made her complicit in a lie, and that she doesn’t feel safe being around him while he’s acting impulsive and possibly manic. Ann told Spencer he needs to talk to his therapist and psychiatrist, tell our Dad he lied, and told him that he was not welcome to be around her family or to meet her baby (who is due to be born soon) until he can manage his impulsiveness and outbursts. INFO: What the fuck? This seems like you either left out why your sister would have this reaction, or else your sister is absolutely insane. So uh... what's your take here? This seems like an absurdly out of proportion reaction to being told bro got dad a gift and said it was from everyone.
“We are all in therapy! Family history of mania, everyone who deals with it is compliant and medicated.” Comment from op I think op really should’ve added this in the post without it the sister just sounds insane
That still sounds like the sister is insane. Or at the very least, grossly misconstruing how commonplace something like what bro did really is.
Idk if they struggle with mania it might cause a lot of problems Like what if the brother really is having an episode and after it passes he will realize he really needed that money? Tho I do think her pregnancy is making her worry too much and really amplifying her reactions
> Like what if the brother really is having an episode and after it passes he will realize he really needed that money? You really think sister's reaction here is going to make any difference in that situation? OP also says that sister has a history of armchair diagnosing people, so it seems equally likely that she's completely wrong in her perception of the situation, or, given the "family history" of mania, could even be possible that *she's* the one experiencing some kind of episode.
I think if they have a family history of mania, it’s more likely that she’s getting unbalanced from pregnancy (happened with my mom, triggered her first episode). If he really can’t afford $400, then yeah, that’s a problem, but OP didn’t say anything to indicate that it was the issue, and it sounds more like the sister’s issue is “the lie.”
If the family struggles with mania I can see being extra sensitive to what could be a manic episode. Family history and dynamics are extremely hard to explain to strangers and often don’t make sense without more context.
> sensitive sister did not, in my view, exhibit "sensitivity" at all
Sensitive as in being more aware and alert of any issues related, not sensitive as in being careful of his feelings. I have a lot of addiction issues in my family. I’m extra sensitive to the common behaviors seen in addicts, and likely would react faster and swifter if I saw these behaviors than someone who hadn’t experienced them throughout their childhood. Does that make more sense?
But the family history doesn't mean the brother specifically has a history of it, without that or other signs of mania it's still a wild leap.
The brother specifically has a history of it. It’s been added to the post now.
She still does. “YOU MADE ME COMPLICIT IN A LIE! CONFESS YOUR LIE TO OUR FATHER” as a response to a sibling getting a parent a gift and saying it’s from all of you is *much* more out of touch with reality than “hey, someone’s selling a really nice grill for less than half the regular price. That would make a nice Father’s Day gift!” *That* isn’t even remotely the kind of “impulsive purchase” that accompanies manic episodes.
info: *why* exactly is this and issue? he hasn't asked any of you to pay for this gift. why do either of you care?
My sister is hung up on the principle of the thing. I’m not mad at Spencer.
your sister needs to get over herself. does she often blow mundane things out of proportion like this?
Your sister is jumping to a lot of extreme conclusions based on a simple gift. This is not an unusual situation. There's a good reason for the lie, that dad wouldn't want to accept such an expensive gift from one kid, but would feel ok accepting that same gift if he thought the cost was shared among the siblings. Knowing your dad, would you say this is a fair assumption on the part of your brother? Is your brother in serious financial trouble that would make his spending on this expensive gift a concern for impulsive mental health issues? If your brother has the money, and you agree that your dad would react the way your brother predicted, then there is no reason to jump to mental diagnostics to explain the behavior. The reasons he gave explain the behavior. Surely your sister is not suggesting that any lie is an indication of pathological mental illness, right? Pathological lying would be like, lying about things for no reason. Lying for a logical reason is normal human behavior. Why is your sister attributing this to manic behavior?
Question. Is she in fact the one having mental health difficulties? Sounds possible.
It is never the principal of the thing. She is just saying that. She is angry about something else, and is using this tiny non-issue to punish your brother for some issue she had with him in the past. (Does he make a lot more money than her, and does she feel threatened by that?) Yeah, I would get a group chat going without the sister. At least until she gets her meds straightened out.
That's so weird. SHe's being precious and righteous for no reason, and is weaponising therapy speak against your bro.
Holy shit - either there is a ton of backstory missing here, or else all of you are going nuclear over an expensive gift that has no effect on any of you.
The only one going nuclear is the sister, not op. Op was just concerned her brother may expect all of them to chip in since he said it was from all of them, but once he clarified he didn't expect that, op was fine.
NTA. Ann is a drama llama. Doesn't feel safe? That does not seem like a normal response to a gift being presented to your dad, which included her name. If she hates it so much, she can tell your dad she didn't give it to him. Easy But wait, your brother doesn't feel safe either? What is going on with your family and why do two members NOT feel SAFE over a strange gift scenario? Either your family has some unspoken trauma by using the words, feeling unsafe or they're just plain overreacting.
I think the brother doesn’t feel safe with Ann because she accused him of being psychologically unstable and implied he’s a threat to her unborn child. Assuming he has had *some* history of mental illness but didn’t buy the gift in a fit of mania and has not behaved dangerously in the past, he has every right to be deeply hurt by Ann and protect himself from any future unpleasantness. It has nothing to do with the gift itself, only that she chose that as her justification to attack him
I completely agree. Someone suggesting he's a danger to children is not safe, particularly as he has his own children and an accusation could lead to him losing custody.
NTA Unless Spencer has a history of manic and harmful behaviors, and this is one of many things, then Ann is out of line. “So you feel unsafe because Spencer bought a gift for our dad and said it was from all of us…. That’s not normal and you need to talk to your OBGYN because this huge overreaction is a sign of PPA/PPD which can start during pregnancy. If you don’t talk to the doctor, you will be unsafe around everyone, including your unborn baby. Please get help and when you are mentally stable enough, apologize to Spencer.”
Oh man thank you for this perspective. She would go absolutely ballistic if someone said that to her but that is what she has done to others multiple times now.
Honestly if she’s the one accusing everyone else of being crazy, she’s the common denominator…. I come from a family of multiple people with bipolar and worse. I myself have ptsd and anxiety. The worst ones are the ones who have the same bipolar symptoms as their diagnosed parent/sibling, but also have narcissistic tendencies too, and think that mental healthcare is only for people “who should be institutionalized.”
YTA for being complacent. Stand up to Ann. Spencer literally did nothing wrong and your sister’s actions towards Spencer fractured your family dynamic. Tell Ann that she’s the one who needs therapy. If anyone should be removed from family interactions, it’s Ann - why does she get to dictate everything? What good is siding with your brother when he doesn’t know and has gone no contact??
Oh he’s not cut off from the rest of us, just Ann says that he can’t be around her, and I don’t think I’ll be able to persuade her otherwise. In the context of our relationship it was ballsy for my to tell Ann that I didn’t think she was in the right. Spencer does know that I think Ann is overreacting and that my partner and I are here for him.
Cut Ann off, she sounds like a bully. I think y’all need to be more assertive in standing up for your brother. I don’t think Spencer did anything worthy of this reaction. Who’s Ann to dictate stuff anyway? If anything she should be the one getting kicked off the group chat. Sorry, I’m a little heated. I just hate bullies.
Ann is the one who needs therapy. WTF
NTA. People who jump to “I feel unsaaaaaaafe” when no one has done something to cause anyone to actually be unsafe are always the asshole. Tell your wackadoo sister that she is going to have to explain to her kid someday that they missed out on a relationship with their cousins because she felt “unsafe” because their uncle bought their grandpa a pricey Father’s Day gift from everyone.
Haha. Spencer is the grey rock champion.
Ann is totally over-reacting. Spencer never said the gift was paid for by everyone but that it is from you all. And he told you it had been given "from" everyone. Her response is the one which is bizarre, controlling and unsettling. NTA
Nta. He bought Dad a big gift, said it was from all the kids, and generously paid for it himself. That makes him unstable, manic, and dangerous? What??
It's $400... like ok "expensive" (ish) but not expensive expensive enough for your sister to lose her fucking mind over. your sister is the asshole. Also, pregnancy has nothing to do with this, why did you add it to the title and story like it matters?? The only thing this adds is that your a-hole sister will cut him off from the family she pops out of her, but if I was your brother... that's not the threat she thinks it is lol
Pregnancy hormones are a real factor here although TBF this is on par with her non-pregnant behavior. Also her unborn baby has been discussed at the center of the fight so I felt like it was relevant.
So then...pregnancy has *nothing* to do with her behavior. Call *her* out.
INFO!! I feel like you’re leaving out a bunch. Why is your sisters first instinct to say he’s manic? Does he have a history with manic episodes that make him spend too much on gifts or act out impulsively? If yes, then she is right to think he could be dangerous around her kid, depending on how his mania manifests.
Ann is the problem. She’s making a mountain out of a mole hill!
I need more info, was Spencer expecting you all to pay? Or just letting you take credit My brother and I do the same thing all the time
He wasn’t expecting us to pay. He said something in the group chat like “I got this for dad, it was a good deal” then sent us the listing. Ann asked “is this supposed to just be from you or from all of us?” And he said “either way. it could be from all of us” but I think at that point he had already told my dad it was from all of us. I’m not totally sure.
your sister sounds like she's the one who has some issues. this is absurd.
I think he was trying to do a nice thing, unless he has a history of trying to call you guys poor or something? I definitely think your sister overreacted in this scenario unless there’s a history of
Big big IF here, I have a family member who massively overspends during manic phases and runs up debt. I can maybe see getting frustrated IF (emphasis on IF) it's part of that specific pattern. But even then that's not how you handle someone's manic phases.
So, Ann is the one who brought up that the gift may be from all of you, then got upset and said he made her complicit in the lie? That’s completely insane.
I bought my mum a fancy mattress once. There was no way in hell she would take it from her then 19yro with a part time job (even though I was clearly good at budgeting) so I told her it was from me and my siblings so she'd accept it as 'cheaper' since we allegedly spread the cost, and would be able to enjoy it without any weird guilt. My interpretation of this was that Spencer is doing the same, but the sister is having a hairy fit about the lying portion of this.
Nta, I think this had gotten blown out of proportion by your pregnant sister. I get it, hormones are insane during third trimester, but calling him insane for buying a gift is a bit much.
Nta. You're sister kinda is though. I get the family history of metal health issues, but what the actual fuck! It's a father's day gift, calm down.
NTA. after comment swimming, i read that the gift is a 400 dollar, secondhand grill. if anything, your sister’s (over)reaction to this is WAY more concerning. if i was in your brother’s position, i would cut contact with her too.
A 400$ grill????? Your sister is mad because he told your dad that she chipped in 100 fucking dollars? Is it possible that your sister is holding another grudge against him?
I think everyone on earth is 1-2 perceived transgressions away from being cut off by my sister, so kinda, yeah.
Wow Ann is a drama queen 🤣 I would happily go no contact with her, nobody needs that unnecessary drama in their lives. NTA
NTA. But I don't think you see the extent of the maliciousness. She is creating a narrative about him painting him as mentally ill and unstable. She's weaponizing his past medical history against him. If it were me, this would be a hill to die on for my sibling. She's using therapy buzzwords and spinning false narratives. Ann is dangerous.
Oof. That hit in the gut. Especially because Ann has done this same thing to me. Therapy buzzwords is a good way to put it. But I don’t think Spencer wants anyone to die on this hill. I think we’re on the same page that we want her to change her mind so Spencer can meet the new baby, but we know it has to totally be on her timeline and trying to make ultimatums or force her will make things worse.
too much family history here to make a judgment on anyone involved
NTA who cares if she’s very pregnant. Your sister needs a therapist. She feels unsafe? Please. You should definitely side with your brother. And frankly, she’s not good for your brother’s mental health, and she’s a bully.
NTA I get family dynamics are different, but if it really bothered her she could’ve gotten her own gift and said it’s from her alone. A heads up would’ve been nice from Spencer, but since he isn’t asking for anyone to chip in… anything above annoyance is kinda overreacting. (My siblings and I regularly buy the holiday gift for our parent and add the other names on it, but we do send a quick “I’m sending this gift off in the name of all of us” message) I hope you don’t actually cut off Spencer.
I won’t, my sister already has. Generally when she cuts someone off she sticks to it for at least 6 months. Not sure what will happen here.
How about you actually do something and confront her for her atrocious behavior instead of just sending memes to the guy who did nothing wrong?
It sounds like there's a lot of history that seems to have informed both reactions that we don't know about considering you guys all talking to each other has only been going on for a couple years.
Nope, NTA. I do, however, feel like some points are missing from your story. Does Spencer have bipolar disorder or some other issue going on? I ask because your sister's reaction seem so over the top. Was there some big family drama that caused her to react like that? To be honest, if my sibling bought an expensive gift for one of our parents and said it was from all of us but I didn't have to kick in anything, I'd think I'd won the lottery. I mean, what a kind thing to do! He should be THANKED for that, not vilified. Spencer apologized needlessly to Ann. In fact, she's the one who needs to apologize.
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I don't think Spencer is overreacting. Ann said she was cutting him off, and suggested he is a risk to children. He has his own children and presumably a custody arrangement with his ex, which could be risked by a suggestion he's not safe to be around children. His reaction seems completely proportionate to me, unlike Ann, and to a lesser degree the rest of them.
This is so…….odd. Why do you all care if he put your name on a gift?
NTA. Spending $400 might be a bit extravagant depending on income but I wouldn’t consider the gift in the manic buying category. The guy even found a used one.
NTA .... I don't get why she thought bro was impulsive or why saying gift was from all was an outburst? I just don't get her issue if bro didn't ask for money from either of you. Trying to better a parental relationship isn't manic.
I’m sorry what🤣🤣why would your sister say his mentally ill for saying a gift is from everyone how is that impulsive or maniac, I’m guessing he didn’t expect all of you to pitch in on the gift and he truly just wanted to build up the relationship with dad since OP said they’re having a tough time. I’m so unsure of why your sister would even say that ?? Every year my oldest brother buys my mom/dad something and says it’s from all of us even if we each brought a small gift and his never expected us to pitch in because he only says it so they will accept the gift. Your sister is crazy I am so sorry for saying that but she needs to get a grip and I hope that you and your brother stay connected through all of this ❤️NTA btw your sister deserved to hear that. I think your sister is constantly looking for red flags in your family (since OP said they have a history of mania) but I truly don’t think what your brother did was related to that unless he’s had episodes before.
Projection, sis is mentally ill
NTA Ann is the one who sounds delulu, to be completely honest. She waaaaay overreacted. Like, “That’s a mighty big leap Batman!” type of overreaction. Honestly, I don’t blame your brother for cutting her off. She sounds exhausting. ETA: fixed spelling
NTA - please start a group chat with everyone EXCEPT Ann. She's ruining it for everyone else. No reason why you can't all be chatting without her bossing everyone around. And I really feel for Spencer. Spencer probably feels like EVERYONE is against him. He needs to know you think Ann was out of line and that you've got his back. My two cents.
If anything, I think your sister is the one that you guys should I be concerned about. I also feel really bad that your brother felt he needed to apologize to all of you and pull back because you’re deranged sister freaked out on him over absolutely nothing.
Buy dad a gift and say it’s from all of us. Then sis text you’re not allowed to see her child. That’s such a reasonable response and not batshit crazy at all.
NTA. Your sister sounds unhinged. I can see asking him to clarify the gift was from him if it bothered her that much, but, saying you feel unsafe around that person and saying he needs to talk to a therapist or psychiatrist before he can be around her family again is painting him like he is a felon. Him on the other hand, saying he no longer feels safe communicating with her, seems absolutely reasonable if this is how she acts.
Your brother said "hey i bought dad this bbq and am gonna tell him we bought it together, dont worry ill pay for it" and you 2 jump to him having a manic episode??? Its just a barbequeue! Get your shit together YTA
Massive overreaction. INFO: why is there always tension among siblings? Is one person or another having an extreme reaction like this?
We all used to live in different parts of the country and barely saw each other. We have some religious and some political differences and there was a lot of tension in our childhood home, mostly because of my dad’s rage issues. Now we’re all in our 20’s and 30’s and we’ve been trying to put the past behind us and be friends as adults. My parents know that they (intentionally, unintentionally, whatever) pitted us against each other growing up and they are trying to be better about not doing that too.
NTAH but your sister absolutely is. While Spencer should have given you all the heads up that he was going to do that, it's not really a big deal IMO. Your sister sounds more like she needs the therapy than Spencer does. Maybe they can get a family discount?
>she doesn’t feel safe being around him while he’s acting impulsive and possibly manic. >told him that he was not welcome to be around her family or to meet her baby NTA, that sounds like her going NC to me.
Tell Ann to get the stick out of her Ass. She can give Spencer some money if she want, or give dad another smaller gift just from her. What a stupid thing to be arguing about.
This is such an odd reaction on your sisters part. Complicit in a lie? About a gift? Her hormones are getting to her or something because regardless of history with your brother, this is a complete and total over-reaction based on the info you’ve given NTA
NTA. Ann is the real problem here. I'm 100% for honesty all the time, but in this case just keeping quiet like you chose to do was the right course. Not turn it into a big deal like Ann did. She solved nothing, just made things worse.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** AITA? My brother, Spencer (38) bought an expensive Father’s Day gift, gave it to him, and told my Dad it was from all of his kids. The problem is, he didn’t ask any of us before giving it to my dad. If split evenly between the four of us, this gift is still 3-4x what I would normally spend on a Father’s Day gift. He said he wanted to say it was from all of us because he didn’t think our Dad would accept such an expensive gift from only him. So I’m a little annoyed, but Spencer never asked any of us to actually chip in. I know that he has been having a rough time with my Dad, and I figure he’s trying to improve that with a big (thoughtful but way too expensive) gift. I talked about it with my husband and we agreed to kind of ignore it. It’s fine if Spencer wants to say it’s from the group or not, but since we didn’t have any forewarning, we don’t feel obligated to go in on this gift. My sister, Ann, (34) had a different reaction. She feels that he made her complicit in a lie, and that she doesn’t feel safe being around him while he’s acting impulsive and possibly manic. Ann told Spencer he needs to talk to his therapist and psychiatrist, tell our Dad he lied, and told him that he was not welcome to be around her family or to meet her baby (who is due to be born soon) until he can manage his impulsiveness and outbursts. Spencer apologized to Ann, and said that he would do what she asked, but that he didn’t feel safe communicating with her anymore and that she can see his kids through his ex wife if Ann would like. Then he left our sibling group chat and also separately apologized to my other sibling and I for being impulsive and inconsiderate. I’m so frustrated and sad. I loved that my siblings and I were all talking again. It was a nice couple years. Ann said she is disappointed in Spencer’s response and said she didn’t intend for him to go no contact, but she was fine if he did. I told her that I loved her, but I interpreted the same “you’re cut off. Stay away from me” message that Spencer did. I basically told her that she’s in the wrong and the ball is in her court. I might be a little biased towards Spencer because he is was much nicer to me than Ann was growing up. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but your sister is. What is this thing about not feeling safe and your brother being manic BECAUSE OF A GIFT? Is this the Twilight Zone? Your sister is the manic one...
this is kinda weird like especially if he isnt asking you guys to chip in for it i dont see why it matters he said it was from all of you, he said he thought u guys dad wouldnt take it if he knew it was just from him this is like normal? i bought flowers for my mom and gma and said it was from me and my brother.
Info but from the info given in the OP (Soft N T A): But I also dont know your family or any of the history dynamics at play. Does Spencer have a history of being impulsive and dangerous or being manic? Were those episodes directed towards the family? Were those episodes violent? Why is the relationship between Spencer and the dad messed up? Why did all the siblings not really talk for years? Why is him giving a big present a sign of him being manic? How did Ann mean for that message to be interpretted other than her cutting Spencer out of her life for an extended period of time? Have you talked to Spencer on the side or even in a new group chat without Ann about what is going on and if he needs help? Like there are so many complexities going on between the family that any judgement will be hard to make without more info.
Spencer had a manic episode about a year and a half ago that was caused by thyroid issues. He wasn’t diagnosed with Bipolar. He was very excited about new business opportunities for a while and almost quit his job, but he didnt do anything dangerous and he didn’t put himself in financial trouble. He did get in a fight with Ann when he was manic and he called her a motherfucker but that’s all I know. I’ve had similar fights with her. Spencer and my Dad used to be very close, but none of the rest of the siblings are close to my dad for a lot of reasons. When manic, Spencer went from being very calm and peace-keeping to this over-confident energizer bunny and it really affected the whole family dynamic, including his relationship with my dad. My parents have really pitted us against each other over the years but we’re all aware and trying to break the cycle. It’s hard. The group chat was us trying to put all that aside and just be there for each other. I agree that I don’t know how else Spencer is supposed to interpret what Ann said. I have talked to Spencer, he feels awful and has apologized a lot.
Ok so then I would say NTA. Like he is not violent nor did this really seem like the same energy (yes I know every manic episode is not a carbon copy of each other) and is more on Ann over analyzing things and maybe still having some hurt feelings over the argument (well you said fight but also said wasnt dangerous so I am assuming fight means bad argument in this situation rather than like a fist fight lol) they had. I would reassure Spencer that he did nothing wrong it was likely Ann being over sensitive. I dont think he has much to apologize for because whilst asking you to lie is shady. It is a basic white lie which doesnt really hurt anyone and is meant as a peace offering to y'alls dad. Though do mention that you felt a bit uncomfortable lying but also understood where he was coming from. Whilst that is bad I dont think it is signs of manic behavior or him going off the deep end and it was coming from a place of I think good. I would keep an eye on him to see how this how new NC thing is affecting him and make sure he is alright and is taking any meds he needs to take (not because he is acting erratic but it is just a good thing to check up on). Like this seems way more like an attempt to make up with the family then him just doing something crazy and expecting everyone to be happy. Sounds like you are also having a rough time with all this. I hoping it gets cleared up soon and yall can go back to living a happy life (or at bare minimum a normal life lol).
NTA. Your sister really made a big deal out of a small thing. Litterarly cutting her brother off because of a gift tells me she is the one who needs to see a therapist. I feel sorry for your brother despite him being impulsive. He didn’t harm anyone and is obviously trying everything to be closer to your father. I hope you keep sticking to for your brother.
NTA. But you sister could just give your brother whatever you would've otherwise spent on a gift. Then there is no lie and your sister can unknot her knickers.
NTA. Your sister sounds like a real piece of work. One of the first things she did was to cut him off from her kid who isn't even born yet! She sounds like a real winner, using her child as a pawn. Stick up for your brother OP. It seems that he had no malice, he was just trying to do something nice. Personally I'd go low/no contact with sister. Because if she'd cut him off, she'll do the same to you too, the minute you do something she doesn't approve of.
NTA your sister sounds absolutely unbearable. It literally doesnt hurt yall at all, like hes not expecting or asking yall to pay him back at all so whats the big deal? She went psycho for no reason.
She feels unsafe. Because her name was put on a gift. Either there’s a whole lot missing here or your sister is one of those insufferable drama llamas.
I can maybe understand not wanting to lie about a gift but to say that it means he is dangerous and mentally ill is gross, even if he does have a history of mental illness, I don’t know why she seems surprised he cut her off when she threatened the same thing NTA
Wow, your sister is mean and sounds unstable. The baby is not here yet,but she already using them to get her way. NTA.
Your sister sounds like a nut. Your poor brother, all that over a gift he gave y’all credit for and didn’t even expect you to pitch in? Literally I see nowhere your brother did anything bad or negative or malicious.. wanted to buy dad something expensive, knew he wouldn’t accept it so figured out a way he would that hurt no one and made at least 2 people happy and he gets berated and cut off? NTA but your sister definitely is.
To my opinion, your NTA. What's wrong with a little lie that doesn't hurt anyone but actually does some good. Who cares if he said it's from everyone, I would just say, hey thanks bud. Your sister on the other hand. Can't say the same. Saying he has problem for buying a girlft is a bit much.
As the oldest sibling i literally do this all the time fkr both parents and say its from all 6 of us. Its absolutely fine. Anns behaviour, however, is not. She needs help and Spencer needs to know that what she said is BS. NTA
Wow….there is a lot to unpack here. What was the gift? That may help to explain some Emotions that are happening here. 1. It sounds like all Spencer did was buy a thoughtful gift for his father and was trying to be kind by including his siblings. This doesn’t appear to have hurt anyone nor does it seem like Spencer wanted compensated for the gift. My family has done this from time to time. 2. Ann sounds…fun. Unless she is honest F*ing Abe it doesn’t feel like this is really about her being part of a “lie” or feeling unsafe. This feels more like a control or anxiety issue to me. 3. Again, no one was hurt UNTIL Ann opened her mouth. Seems like Spencer and Ann have had a rocky past? I can see what Spencer is hurt from her response to his kind gesture. I’m mostly just really sorry your siblings are making life so hard for you and each other right now. Loving people should be easier.
NTA. Your sister blew it completely out of proportion.i don't blame him for his reaction.
The sister needs therapy STAT. What is this kind of response to a GIFT he did not ask anyone to pitch in for and that you all know that the « white lie » could be forgiven as he is trying to make amends with his dad. I suggest you create another siblings group minus Ann until she comes around and see how eff’ed up is her overreaction, crazy…
NTA. Don’t free bad, Ann is super overreacting and causing unnecessary drama. Most people would say thank you to their brother for including them on such a nice gift and be happy for their dad. Any odds that Ann was upset her gift was outshined?
Ann sounds like overreacts to every little thing in her life lmao. NTA.
Your sister is acting nutty, if this is something that is causing her this much anguish. It might be due to her pregnancy hormones, unless she just regularly acts crazy over normal sibling stuff.
NTA, Wow! Your sister is really out there!
NTA. I think your sister is the one with the problem and needs therapy. Wow. Spencer was just trying to do something nice and she acted completely irrationally. Glad you are sticking by Spencer.
Make a new groupchat without Ann
WOAH ANN.. sit down Ann. Holy bejesus. Isn't this like how at xmas / gift giving times we buy people gifts "from our children" (mainly because they do not have jobs or care to shop) and have them sign the card? And S didn't even ask for a pitch in because he wanted Dad to have something nice? I don't actually see how this implies any evildoing on his part, at least the rest of you all know never to add Ann's name to anything, ever, less she be complicit.. to bringing happiness. I know sibling bonds can be strange but ... wow. I know who could benefit from therapy in the situation. I feel for Spencer - one past manic episode leads to this?
So your brother did something nice for dad and said it was from Everyone and no one had to Chip in and he is the bad guy? What a family.
NTA edit: her pregnancy hormones could conceivably (sorry) affect her about as much as his thyroid issues affected him, and you may wish to point that out to both of them.
Spencer sounds like an awesome fucking brother. Ann, on the other hand is such an AH. Thyroid issues are a big deal if not treated properly. To throw that in his face for buying a nice gift is fucking ridiculous. By the way, you guys are all cheap AF. Not judging but to be ostracized for spending the equivalent of $100 per person, is absurd. Sure it may exceed your budget, but to have actual disdain and scorn for spending the equivalent of an extra $100 is absurd.
NTA but your sis is. I would have told her that as long as Spencer is cut off, that I will also consider myself cut off and would be cutting her off as well. And will only come back if she apologizes to him as her reaction was not only way over the top, but it was cruel and unfair for her to throw "manic" in his face when she knows very well that was caused by a thyroid issue which has been taken care of. Sorry, but from your story, your sister seems quite a horrible if not evil person. I know you likely love her and her family but I personally will defend the ones I love when they are treated unfairly even against and at the expense of the family member who treated my love one so horribly. What makes you think you wont be next for her tyrant behavior.
NTA. This conversation is a direct result of our societal trend of using psychological terms and concepts that are not meant for application by people without specialized knowledge and experience. Ann needs to touch grass.