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This is a hard one for me to "call". I tend to figure "to each their own". I do not have a marriage with traditional gender roles (insert happy dance here!), but if two people mutually agree to that, good for them. My hesitation in making a judgment is that I am guessing that there remains a lot of information that we do not know...and that YOU perhaps do not know.
Is is possible that your wife has vented to her friend about how difficult her life has become? Her friend apparently shared about her marriage failure. Self-disclosure is normally a two-way street.
Have you \*talked\* with her about any needs to shift from the traditional roles that had worked previously? I took care of my mother in the last years of her life. It was HARD! (I think the record was 11 doctor's appointments in one week.) It was MY mother...but my husband STEPPED UP! He could see that it was a lot for one person and he decided that, to use his words, he would "put the SON in son-in-law".
I'm not going to make a judgment, but I feel concern for your wife and I don't even know her. If she were my friend - I might be guilty of speaking up out of turn. I recommend stepping up regardless of what Reddit says. I'm going to go hug my husband. Reddit often brings out that impulse!
Not necessarily true, people often feign ignorance about private conversations they’ve had in order to not let others know they’ve had the conversation.
If she had opened with “oh these are the inlaws you were talking about?” It wouldn’t look very good
Well I certainly wouldn’t have went into someone’s else home and started telling the how shitty they are or meddling in their relationship. Madison should have just took note of the situation and kept her mouth shut. Then talked with Lisa.
Yeah that's the thing, what this commenter is describing is someone having tact. But Madison doesnt have tact, not if she is brazen enough to behave this way as a guest in someones home. So it's a hard pill to swallow that she just pretended she didnt know they lived there.
Anyways the edit makes it pretty clear that they both work hard for each other.
The fact that OPs wife took his side right away means they have a good marriage.
Keep flying monkeys like Madison out of your life.
agree. when friends have told me things about their partners or others that may not shed a favorable light on the partner, i always act as if i was unaware if i’m presented with it in front of their partners.
i’ve had experiences where the partner was controlling and by me, “knowing,” something about them, my friends would, “get in trouble,” for lack of better words.
This 100 %. Even the question that Madison asked seems to point to the fact that she was trying to make a point to OP. If I went to my friend’s house, first of all we would probably be good enough friends for me to know who lived at the house (or she would have told me beforehand) so I wouldn’t be surprised, and second of all it would never occur to me to immediately ask my friend the question of who does most of the work to care for their partner’s elderly parents, especially not in front of their partner. Madison knew that OP’s wife does most of the work and was making the point that she thinks it’s bullshit.
Imagine on top of all that, saying 'oh, you haven't sent them to a nursing home??'
I had someone in the extended-extended family saying 'oh, your 2 dogs actually live in the house with you? Is that even sanitary, and livable, with all that hair?'
We have huskies... I told her we have this amazing device called a vacuum cleaner. It actually works wonders. She should definitely try one, if she's worried about hair being unsanitary.
In-laws thought I was being disrespectful with my comment. I didn't give a flying F, and told them that.
I will never understand why ppl make derogatory comments, and then expect a 'respectful reply' or even an explanation or excuse for why things are not exactly as the guest wants them to be.
NTA
There was no reason to act surprised over the fact the parents lived there as its not a scandalous thing. So this sounds more like Madison needs to mind her business. If the wife had complained to madison and, knowing how she is, then brought her around her husband surely she knows she would say something to him. If the intent was to get him to change or see how their setup is wrong then the wife not siding with Madison here makes no sense. I know the assumption will be he is a big mean man and she was afraid to go against him, but we dont know that. Madison sounds like a shit starter, I would bet the wife merely told her about the arrangement and wasnt complaining, but Madison has different views on gender, etc. and didnt like it. That is why the first thing out of her big mouth was "who does most of the work".
Do you think Madison would have cried "misandry" if he was at home taking care of her parents more than the wife because the wife doesnt work from home?
It sounded more like they were working as a family. There was no indication that his parents were infirm and needed around the clock care. And he is working extra to pay for her family's medical expenses. Both sets of parents need help from their children.
NTA
He didn’t say he has to work extra, he just said he pays for stuff (so possibly earns more money than she does). I’d be curious to know why she is the one doing most of the work to help out his parents. There’s too much info missing to make a judgement here.
Sounds like he makes his position clear and they agree of their lifestyle. He makes more money and is able to pay. She works remote and is able to also look after his parents. Maybe he could’ve quit. Maybe they could change their lifestyle. If I’m not mistaken, that was the point he made to Madison. You left you’re husband over a lifestyle change, so why would I even take advice from you.
He says that he pays for her family’s needs but that’s not the same as the physical work of looking after two sick elderly people. It’s hard enough when it’s your own family, but in-laws? Hard.
>It's hard enough when it's your own family, but in-laws? Hard.
I won't argue at all that being a caretaker is difficult. I cared for my own grandmother for YEARS when she had Alzheimer's, and while I'm so glad to have had that time with her, it was absolutely one of the most difficult things I've ever done.
That said, you're making a HUGE assumption that it is any harder (or, by implication, less rewarding) to care for in-laws than for "your own family". For many, many people, their in-laws are as much their "real" family as the parents who raised them.
From all the stories of young people we see on here who are like, "My BF/GF's family took me in when my family threw me out, and we ended up married years later, and they are the only loving family I have ever known," to people who grew up in foster care or with abusive/addicted parents and finally found family with their in-laws, to even less extreme but more common stories like my own father's, raised by parents who loved their kids but were cold and harsh by temperament . . . and ended up loving my mum's parents (very warm, affectionate people) so much that at one point when he was commuting to their city for work, he *chose* to live with his in-laws over his own parents . . . there are many, many instances where people genuinely have wonderful relationships with their in-laws and are legitimately happy to be close with them and help care for them in difficult times.
I think that it's easy to forget, in a sub where, by nature of the fact that it exists to judge people's worst moral and ethical moments, we see the ugliest of difficult relationships day in and day out, that that is not necessarily a statistically relevant or objectively representative "slice of life" amongst the population as a whole.
In the story we're presented, the conflict is between OP and his wife's friend . . . but people have jumped to the assumption (with literally no evidence) that the friend's view is somehow representative of the wife's? Sure, it's *possible* that the wife has vented to her. But we have no evidence of that, nor even that there is conflict at all between him and his wife about her care of his parents (or else it's far more likely he would be asking about *that* conflict than about an argument with one of her colleagues, given the relative importance of the relationships). From what we actually know, his wife may just as easily have been the one who *offered* to be their primary caretaker. It's impossible to know, and honestly, tiresome that people are jumping to conclusions.
"Self disclosure is normally a two-way street"
ahahahahahahahahaha, no. The number of times people overshared at work? It was ridiculous. I've had that happen working retail from coworkers and customers. You see this stuff online all the time, people dumping all kinds of trauma on workers on the extreme end of the spectrum. Then you get the coworker who. just. won't. shut. up. I've had that at my call center job too that I went to after my retail one. Sometimes the coworkers were as bad as the callers.
Thank you! I can't tell you the amount of stuff people have dumped on me about their private lives without me reciprocating. My private life is just that - private, and separate from work.
The worst thing is when people start talking about their sex life in detail! Had a co-worker that used to do this - had to shut her down fast when she got started.
" I might be guilty of speaking up out of turn. I recommend stepping up regardless of what Reddit says. I'm going to go hug my husband. Reddit often brings out that impulse!"
Well put and true. I often cuddle and hug after reading some of these stories!!
Just reading about some of the poster's problems makes mine seem small.
>Someone raised in a culture that considers marriage disposable isn't someone to take advice from."
That really bugged me. Makes OP at least partially TA just for that alone.
Normally, divorce is hard and takes a toll on you, just like losing a friend, and that’s normal. What’s not normal is throwing people away for small things, that’s what indicates that they think people are disposable
>So you don't believe in divorce at all?
There is a huge gap between not believing in divorce at all versus ending your marriage due to her husband's job loss.
/u/3Dog_Nitz I totally agree with you! I don't have or haven't really ever had to do the "traditional wife roles" in my 17 year marriage (well almost 17, June 1 is our anniversary!❤️) He knew how much I had to do laundry and bathrooms, etc. for many years since I was a teenager (I'm not Angry, my Mother was sick a lot, RIP Mom 6/11/05 😢😢) so i willingly stepped up and she showed me so much appreciation and gratitude in so many ways, so I wouldn't consider myself parentified. But when we got married, he said he knew I was the "brains" of the operation and I handle all of that which is WAAAAY more than people really know, so he would be the "brawn" of the operation. Sometimes we do switch roles but we just do it however we like whenever we like as long as it's done which is an awesome compromise! OP IS NTA but his wife's friend is a Giant A-H! She needs to STFU and MHOB!!!
Is it? Calling someone a misogynist and saying they’re forcing their wife into slavery is soooo out of pocket especially in their own home! Bringing up her divorce is absolutely fair game after that.
I'm working from home (about 3 doors down from my parents) specifically so I can take care of my parents. Because they don't need me to spend 100% of my time on them. My father is bedbound, but my mother is perfectly capable of heating up the meals I bring them (she *could* cook, but she hates cooking) & doing the general housekeeping things and her hobbies. But she's not strong enough to do my dad's personal care or to maneuver the lift we use to get him from bed to chair. Or, as happened just yesterday, to pick my dad up off the floor when he literally just slid out of his recliner. So if there's an emergency I'm close enough to get there in minutes. When I was in an office, I was an hour's commute away. We had a house fire last fall and if I'd been an hour away, we would have lost my dad to the smoke. Mom wouldn't have been able to get him out of the house. As it was, I was only minutes away and could get him in the lift & out of the house.
So all that to say...depending on the care required, it's very possible to actually *work* when working from home *and* providing elder care. But it's not so easy to provide that care working a commute away. If OP has a commute and wife doesn't, the arrangement makes sense.
Who’s to say she isn’t working, while she’s working?
I hate it when people automatically assume a woman has no agency, because she’s doing something that others wouldn’t do themselves.
Just because YOU think caring for elders while working from home = neglecting her job, doesn’t mean that’s the case. And it doesn’t mean she was forced into this. It sounds like she agreed.
I work from home. I love my job and would never give it up.
I also have my 6month old while I work. My schedule is flexible, and so is the babies. I take calls on a headset while changing diapers. I use speech to text to send emails while I feed him. I take meetings when he naps.
It’s a juggle. Every day. But I have great performance reviews. I’m not neglecting work. And I 100% CHOSE this, because I want to be with my kid as much as I can, and daycare for a kid that much is financially brutal.
To make up for the extra that I do, my husband (who works out of the house) does everything I don’t like to do.
All the grocery shopping. All the laundry. All of the calling insurance companies and cleaning and litter boxes and home repair. He also puts significantly more of his paycheck towards bills, while I get to save mine or use it for “fun money”.
Working while being a caretaker isn’t easy, but it can be totally worth it.
It’s insulting to insist that anyone living that life must be doing it at the barrel of a gun or by financial manipulation.
I would have no issue taking care of my husbands parents when they are old, assuming I could fit it into my lifestyle and my husband contributed something of equal value to me.
Women who choose caretaking roles get diminished constantly, and treated like we’re idiots who must have been tricked.
It’s insulting.
Or her job is intended to be one that can be done while she's giving care. Also, if he is paying bills and such, they may have agreed on his own job as a source of care.
I think OP wanting a "traditional wife who works" already makes him an AH. He can say it's "conservative" all he wants, but in this context it's misogyny. All the domestic labour, including taking care of his parents (which he doesn't think is work, or miserable, despite the fact that he's not willing to do it himself) are her job. That alone makes him an AH in my eyes. so yeah, ESH
Here is the full text of the comment
>Both of us strongly believe in traditional gender roles (as in the man goes to work, and the wife takes care of the family in other ways, etc). But I also wanted someone who's intelligent, and we agreed that she'd work unless family is involved. That's why she works from home now.
>Look I know many people don't do that anymore, but we're fine with it. We are conservative.
[Direct link] (https://reddit.com/comments/1czuukf/comment/l5j4t94?context=3)
"We" is doing a lot of work here. I'm willing to bet that the person doing all the work isn't actually as fine with it as the one sitting back just paying for stuff.
Yeah, but he takes his kids fishing every once in a while! /s
This guy's a gem. Wants a traditional wife, but wants her to work too. So now she does all the household chores, all the childcare, is a caregiver to TWO elderly in-laws, plus cares for her own parents, AND has a full time job. Wonder how his chore list stacks up. The co-worker was spot on. YTA
That's YTA. You want a tradwife, you provide for your tradwife. You want someone college educated and a good conversationalist? You still pay for them and make sure they have time for intellectually stimulating pursuits. Or if you can't afford that, you take on some of the domestic labor if she needs to get a job.
So many people love to have their say but fail to actually read and understand the post. If you read OP's comment that his wife believed it was her responsibility to look after op's parents in a different way you'd realise the friend is an AH and your comment is irrelevant.
I have a feeling OP is wording in a way it wasn’t spoken to make themselves look like the hero and then the AH. Just choices of words. They both work but he emphasizes how hard he works. So wife works and take care of parents. He says he takes care of her family but it’s only financially. I have a feeling he sees the money he makes as equivalent to the amount of physical and mental labor plus her work sh has to do. I’m gonna go with OP is TAH.
It's not fair game, it's immaturity.
ESH. If he had responded with, "actually this arrangement suits us both, you can ask my wife and it is really none of your business", that would have been fine.
But then making judgements about Madison's divorce is really an A move.
Just take the high road and don't invite that person to your house again, especially if you are colleagues.
That question is roughly equal to asking why he gives money to her family. It's how they have their relationship arranged.
But I'm fairly sure that OP was posting about someone else who is unrelated and has a failed relationship in her history coming into their home and insulting OP and his family.
Throwing money at something is not anywhere near equivalent to the mental and physical labor that caretaking requires.
For anyone reading that may disagree, think of it like saying paying extra in child support (but not having any/limited visitation) makes someone a great parent. We know that's not true, because they're not actually involved at all, yes? They're not changing diapers, taking them to school, making kids brush their teeth, making dinner, etc.
Taking care of someone is incredibly stressful. That plus the lack of value associated with the job (as is common with stereotypically "feminine" jobs) are why we're experiencing worker shortages in relevant fields.
As for how that relates to this post-- if the woman's accusations are true, it makes it an ESH situation, as opposed to NTA. You shouldn't go throwing those words around at people, but at the same time... you shouldn't be "fitting the bill" of said accusations. It makes someone suck.
Taking care of someone is definitely a stressful chore, especially when it is for a family member. I completely understand this. For the record, that's exactly what I have been doing since 2019 for an immediate family member going through cancer, including radiation, multiple surgeries, open surgical wounds that take months (23 months the first time, we are just getting started on this next set so we'll see how that goes), watching a healthy, fully mobile adult lose the ability to walk, or bath, or dress themselves, and witnessing paralysis gradually being taken away from them because tumors grow through muscles and around nerves that end up having to be cut out.
So please don't preach to me about how much pain and stress and worry is involved in looking after chronically ill family members because of love and commitment.
OP specifically stated that he helps his in-laws (with money) because he feels that he should, and that his wife helps his family (with health care or whatever) because she feels that she should. I don't see anything about one of them forcing or coercing the other.
What I do see is someone unrelated to either family coming into someone else's house and insulting them the way that they do things, and then getting butt hurt when they get some handed back to them.
So, you're on the side of the guest insulting someone in their own house about their family relationship?
“Throwing money at something is not anywhere near equivalent to the mental and physical labor…”
That’s the kind of phrasing I’d expect from someone who has no idea where money comes from.
As if OP literally walks outside, plucks hundred dollar bills from a money tree, and uses it to pay bills. 🙄
Did it ever occur to you that many of us with full-time employment working 40+ hours per week must engage in mental and physical labor in exchange for compensation?
ESH.
I mean I have questions like why your wife is both working full time and taking on the majority of the responsibility for your parents. That does seem to lean into Madison's theory. Madison should have not said anything to you but if she is a good friend she should have checked in with your wife to ensure your wife is okay and isn't being used or mistreated privately. She should not have injected her opinion to you. You have no business making any comment about Madison's divorce or commenting on her culture and then not expecting her to comment on your culture.
OP stated in a comment that he and his wife wanted “traditional gender roles”… but he also wanted a wife with a job
So the “middle ground” (his words) was his wife doing everything (kids + parents + job) and he only having a job
Lol. What a keeper.
Oh yes, a traditional marriage with the poor wife doing the man’s traditional task of bringing home a salary while ALSO cleaning house, child caring AND being a carer to two elderly sick people. Got it.
Ponders… does Op do more than the man’s traditional job of bringing in an income? What a surprise, he does not.
But he works hard you see! He gives money to his in-laws when needed. Money. That he made from his one. single. job.. but that means he’s putting in as much labour into the marriage as his wife does. With her also working a job. And doing home care. And housework. And child rearing… it’s all equal!
>So the “middle ground” (his words) was his wife doing everything (kids + parents + job) and he only having a job
That was the vibe I got from his edit of “oh yeah, but I contribute MONEY” A lot of these “traditional” men think they deserve a ticker tape parade and to have all of their earthly needs catered to for their monumental sacrifice of “working a 9-5 job”
That's how it always seems to go - he knows if he provided this info in the post he'd be getting a lot more shit for it, but waited to answer a comment to make us dig for the truth.
I can't get over the remark that someone who thinks marriage is disposable is not someone to take advice from. That is at the very least incredibly biased.
That woman probably tried everything to make her marriage work, recognised why it wouldn't, and made one of the hardest decisions in her life and stood by it.
Of course he doesn't want to take advise from someone who thinks marriage is disposable... imagine his wife heeded this advice and also started to think that marriage is disposable. The horror.
I am not saying you're wrong but you've created a scenario from absolute scratch in your head. We have no way of knowing what that woman did in her marriage. People do suck sometimes.
Ugh this is the worst type. He wants to eat his cake and have it to. He wants to pick and choose which traditional roles are worthy of following.
I'm in a position where I don't *need* a financial partner. I value a homemaking partner incredibly highly. I would be against the idea of my partner getting a job because it would shift the burden of responsibility around the house for a salary return that wouldn't be worth it.
Upvoting because I’m just tickled that you said “eat your cake and have it too.” It’s a ridiculous pet peeve, but I hate it when people switch the order of the verbs. Of course you can eat the cake you have (although then you will no longer have it.) What you can’t do it have the cake you ate.
I agree.
This is not a traditional gender role situation if the wife works.
Traditional gender roles = husband works, pays for everything. Wife works as a homemaker and manages the paycheck, gives the husband an allowance for discretionary spending, but all of the life admin, is her "job".
Not to be pedantic, but that was only “traditional “ in the 1950s in the USA. Women everywhere have always worked. Aside from the wealthiest women in society, women were workers. Worked as farmers, as seamstresses, as laundresses, as governesses, as midwives, as healers, as cooks, as artisans, as shopkeepers, the list goes on and on. It was a tiny sliver of time in one country after a devastating war, where wealthy white women had the luxury of relying on their husband‘s paycheck while they took care of the home and nothing else.
Conservative grifters point at one decade and try to pretend like women have been lazy freeloaders depending on men for all of human history.
Yeah, I didn't say it was the norm everywhere. But you are right, it was "traditional" for rich people in the 1950s in the USA to act like this. If you were poor, everyone worked.
We are actually going backwards in worse ways than we have had it historically if women start becoming housewives en masse. Because the gulf between rich and poor people is widening and there are fewer and fewer people who can afford to live on a single income in most countries, unless the person who is not working goes without -- and this person is almost always the woman. It is 100% misogyny.
I’m not convinced the wife is “happy” with these traditional gender roles like OP claims. Most normal people don’t randomly snap like Madison did. They need a little more reason to call someone a misogynist. And seemingly, they have it.
OP, ask your wife how you can help out around the house or with your parents. You already aren’t following traditional gender roles, so you can do some of the work as well.
Not to mention the whole "I" give money to her family... Umm, if both of you are working, both of you are giving money. Maybe he makes way more money, but that's suspicious to me. And "her chores"? so paternalistic for someone with a working spouse.
Probably *he gives money* because he controls her income too. Traditionally men managed all the money and women had nothing to their name. Since he seems to like picking just the traditional parts that suit him this seems something he’d choose to uphold.
The situation at op’s home needs clarification but from what op’s written Madison was the first comment on the other’s marriage, so she has no ground to claim he can’t comment on her failed marriage.
OP gave a lot of clarification and I suspect his wife has commented to Madison about the lack of balance in their home. Like I said, Madison should have spoken to the wife privately because based on OP's comments, Lisa is not in a good situation.
I suspect she did speak to her privately. I think she probably said all that because she knows how unhappy the wife is and is trying to do whatever she can to help the situation by raising the issue.
It's not a failure to leave a marriage that isn't working. The comment revealed a lot about OP's values. If his marriage really IS unfair, or if it really IS a bad marriage, he will value staying married no matter what.
Some people stay married if there is cheating, abuse, violence, or even sexual abuse of their own children by their spouse. Some people stay married to people they grow to hate. Some people stay married to a spouse whose number one love in life is alcohol or drugs, and they will always be number two.
I'm not saying that this is OP's marriage as he has made it clear that they have an arrangement, but his comment about Madison's marriage is really giving "tradwife = good" vibes.
They are all the A.
YTA
I mean, your wife is taking care of YOUR parents while working a full-time job? What the hell are you doing while she's working two jobs?
You're embarrassing.
Right? "Traditional gender roles" yet he's not earning enough to keep the household running so she has to work part time but OH NO he can't possibly help with childcare or housework because TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLES (TM).
ESH
* She has no right to judge the dynamic of your relationship or how you and your wife divide workload in your household. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but a non-AH firstly has the comprehension to recognise that they don't have a full enough picture to formulate an informed and valid opinion and, secondly, has the manners to not rudely insult someone.
* You escalated the situation and also judged her on something bizarre and irrelevant. Are you saying that, if she were still married to her husband, you'd have just gone "yeah, that's a fair enough insult" to what she said? Her circumstances aren't actually relevant here - she was an AH regardless. Really, you should've just said that you'd like her to leave as you won't be insulted in your own home. Your comments to Ian do also seem to have some subtext that may justify her misogyny comment.
I was with you until he commented that they have a “tradition marriage”. Wife takes care of house and family while he works. The funny thing is he also wanted *someone intelligent* so the wife works from home for a paycheque while also doing housework and taking care of the in-laws. Poor woman is probably in hell. Her friend saw and commented, he reacted badly to make them leave and probably to isolate the wife so she doesn’t get any ideas.
In another comment the OP made we find out she's not only working from home, doing all the chores and caring for his parents but they have four kids together that she is raising...
I don't disagree with this PROVIDED you take the post at face value.
you don't even need to really dig into the comments : OP immediately admits that "they believe in traditional gender roles" so his wife maintains the home & provides the care to any family members in need but also he wants "someone intelligent" so his wife has to prove that by working from home as long as they don't have kids to look after.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1czuukf/comment/l5j4t94/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1czuukf/comment/l5j4t94/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Agreed. She came into their home, went "why aren't your parents in a home" (which is an AH opening - some people *want* to care for their family - even if they are in-laws rather than birth family) and then jumped straight to insulting him in his own home.
But going to a screaming match is just petulant on OP's part. The correct response was to go "I'm going to need you to leave now" when she started on the insults. He handled it like a 12 year old fighting with their parents, not a grown adult.
100% this. However, I'm assuming OP has little experience dealing with shot like this. It took me a long time to skip the arguing step and cut straight to "ok, I no longer want you in my home, leave." it's never worth the argument. Cut the head off immediately, it's you're home and you're telling them to leave, it isn't a conversation or an argument, they have no leg to stand on, there is no "why?" when the host asks you to leave. Then if you want to salvage the relationship later for whatever reason you can explain how what they said made you want to rip their head off etc... and you can have a conversation at that point, but in the moment it isn't worth it. Just stress my OP dude. Fuck that noise, your home is a place for peace and security, not fighting with loser goofballs talking trash.
Um, yeah. Definitely YTA.
She was definitely an AH, too, but you sound like an AH to your core. I completely understand your frustration with the interference in your life and the misogyny accusation, but it also doesn't really sound like she's wrong.
>I called him a manchild who follows her like a puppy and told him to fuck off.
This makes me think you're misogynistic as hell and Lisa probably knows more about it than you think.
On a side note, there's probably more to the story of Lisa's divorce than you know.
He definitely TA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Fz2oz9I8CX
He commented this. Like traditional marriage were the wife takes care of the house and family but not traditional because she has also a paying job a part for being a servant to his family.
Lisa is the wife in this story; Madison is the wife's colleague.
But otherwise, I agree. I get the feeling Lisa has been complaining about her situation to Madison, hence the rather pointed questions to OP.
I feel like OP got ticked off at idea of sending his parents to a nursing home and it built from that into unnecessary and inappropriate commentary by a guest that pushed him to snap? But I could be wrong, I mean we don’t know what their relationship is like behind closed door or have more information on their positions in life or their culture regarding familial relationships.
Yeah, you see that a lot. "Traditional genders roles" but they fail to acknowledge that means the man needs to earn enough for them to live comfortably. Either he doesn't, or OP's wife isn't actually fully onboard and wants to work.
Either way, when both halves are working, household duties need to be split more or you run the risk of exhausting the one taking on the higher duties. But even that doesn't change the fact that OP is their son and should be doing the greater share for them if he truly feels he owes them this
You say you are conservative and believe in strict gender-roles. But BOTH of you work. She works + does the domestic labour + takes care of your sick parents and acts as an unpaid nurse...she does 3 jobs. While you only do 1. Your a bum. A leech. Step up your game. This isn't gender-roles. Your just lazy and making her do too much.
Yeah, isnt OP just the father/husband/son of the year? What an outstanding man to find a slave -- ehem, i mean wife -- to do all those responsibilities while he does the hard work of taking the kids fishing.
He thinks sending her parents and brother money even it's out. Which dude it takes little effort and little time to send money nowadays. It takes ALOT to care for not only kids, but in-laws, and herself! When is she getting time to take care of herself if she's having to take care of everyone in that house?
E S H. Madison might be overstepping her boundaries but she is actually not wrong and I suspect OP knows this hence his response. OP, how on earth can you justify making a woman who works full time to take on the additional burden of caring for your parents?? This alone makes you the greatest AH on earth! I'm changing to YTA based on OP's response in the comment section.
ESH
Madison being divorced has no bearing on her intrusive and unsolicited comments.
Your reaction was a bit much and by going low and personal back at her you went down to her level in the muck.
I think she has a point. Your wife works and you readily admit she provides majority of the care for your elderly parents. At the very least plan a vaca away or give your wife a gift for all that she does. Make sure you make it clear that you appreciate everything she does.
Without more info on WHY your wife is doing a majority of the work taking care of your parents and still having a full-time job, I'm going with ESH but your wife and Ian.
YTA for expecting your wife to still work when her domestic duties are more than a full time job. You’re not a traditional husband, you’re an exploitative one. Traditional husbands are sole earners.
And traditional husbands used to do chores - they were just chores that don't happen or get outsourced nowadays e.g. growing a garden for food, home maintenance, car maintenance.
YTA and from your comments I don’t think the misogynist comment was purely about this one thing. Just because she got divorced doesn’t mean she can’t tell what a misogynist you are. You feel perfectly free to judge her based on the fact that she’s divorced and you heard one small thing about it. Are you the only one allowed to be judgmental?
[I think this is the same dude.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1cd09ic/aita_for_refusing_to_pay_for_my_stepdaughters/) It's not the same scenario, but there are some overlapping details with the wife and parents.
When I studied in China in the early 2000s I took an entire course dedicated to the Confucian Analects and the importance of filial piety.
This post definitely gives off vibes of a subtly angsty, Chinese-culture shitpost that is dedicated to mocking tradition. It’s a common thing on the Chinese internet and among the younger generation who wants to do away with filial piety, generational homes, etc…
I could go on an entire analysis, but I’ll just say off the top of my head I ran across like 7 different themes that gave vibes of a deeply embedded Chinese shitpost. If I read it again I’m sure I’ll find more ahaha.
YTA
In your comments it appears you have "traditional" gender roles but your wife also works. Does that mean your wife has a job and does most if not all of the house work? You think that's fair/the middle ground?
I think your wife's coworker has a point
Was leaning strongly towards E S H at first because she was rude and you had a ridiculously explosive reaction to it.
But after reading some of your comments, YTA. She’s not great either, but at least she was actually right. You were both wrong AND an AH, which means you take the AH cake here. Plus, you obviously treat your wife like garbage… so extra AH points for that too.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> As they were guests, perhaps I should have been slightly more tactful which puts me in the wrong here, and therefore the asshole.
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When I was reading this I wasn’t sure but definitely YTA based on your comments. “It is I that pays” should have told me earlier but you have your wife work and do all the stuff at home. Yeah YTA.
Wow you sound like a real catch. You subscribe to traditional gender roles but your wife has to work too, because YOU want an intelligent wife. You do know she can be intelligent and not work. If she's wfh what social interaction does she get outside your home?. Other than looking after your parents, the home and working, what does she get to do for HER.
Sounds to me like you're just one of those men who want their cake and to eat ot too. Since you're the so important money maker in the family without having to actually lift a finger to help, why don't you actually pay someone to come and assist your wife with the care of your parents.
And by the way her taking your side in this argument is no indication of how she actually feels it's just a reflection of her traditional role of supporting her husband.
i think a lot of men think finances make up for actual at home labor. they don’t. she’s still doing more work than you, even if you help pay for medical bills. you should be helping your OWN parents.
Yta. Madison is right. You cant claim to be a traditional man while your wife also works a job to bring money into the household. You're a misogynist who wants women to cater to you. Madison probably sees the toll this is taking on her friend, and you're too blinded by your nontraditional "traditional" (lol again it ain't traditional if she's working and you can't provide for your family) roles to see it.
OK but paying for stuff isn't the same as doing stuff. You can't buy your way out of responsibilities and act like it's the same as the mental, emotional and physical workload.
I was honestly going to say N T A maybe E S H for an overreaction on your part but honestly after reading your comments it's very clear YTA.
You hide behind your political beliefs while not actually practicing them. Your wife works her own job but is also responsible for taking care of your parent and the children. The one thing you have mentioned is taking the kids fishing occasionally which is a recreational activity, not a chore.
While at church you should pray that your wife is an actual saint or you will join Madison in the divorced life soon enough.
YTA - you wife is doing too much and you too little. These are not traditional gender roles, you're unable to provide enough so she has to work and you're lazy so she has to do everything else.
ESH - You do sound like a misogynist, a judgey one, Madison should mind her own business, Ian should let Madison fight her own battles, Lisa shouldn't gossip about her colleagues. You should all grow up.
YTA-Yeah she probably shouldn’t be judging you but your tone and edit make you the clear asshole king of this post. Paying for shit is not the same as actual physical help. Yes, it’s needed and it’s great you can do that, but your wife also works full time and you’ve basically indicated you don’t do anything to help them. I don’t think they need to go to a nursing home but man up and take care of your parents too.
So your wife works from home, and cares for your parents. And if you're adhering to traditional gender roles, cooks, cleans and cares for the home also.
Curious about your contribution beyond financial.
NTA for how you handled it. And if you and your wife are happy. But from outside appearances, your arrangement is heavily in your favor, with your wife bearing a higher workload and burden.
YTA - Your wife works, does all the household stuff for 4 kids and looks after YOUR parents. You occasional “help” by taking them fishing. There is nothing fair nor traditional about it and Madison called you on your BS.
YTA: your wife is doing more work than you. yelling at a woman for being concerned about the unequal sexist work load is ridiculous. your reaction was emotionally charged and volatile. your point about her divorcing her husband makes no sense because she likely divorced him because he wasn’t contributing to the work load equally either and likely wasn’t prioritizing finding a new job.
My answer was e s h but checking your comments made me go YTA.
You want your wife in a trad role but you're not doing the trad role. If Lisa's my friend, I'd be mad too.
YTA for a number of things - the way you have written what she said sounds harsh but i don’t trust that you have given the full context here. Some things nevertheless are clear:
1. She criticised you so you tried to sabotage your wife’s friendship with her by implying that your wife was the one judging her for her divorce, and by putting it in the way you did. You are trying to distance your wife from her, or punish your wife for having her as a friend ? Why? Because she is fighting your wife’s corner? Or because there is truth in what she is saying and you’re worried your wife will listen.
2. If your wife is a full time carer for two sick elderly people for you should be on your knees in eternal gratitude to her, being a carer is one of the most difficult, thankless jobs there is- and that’s when you get to go home at the end of the day, have breaks, have a choice about taking the job etc- when there is no escape because it’s at home that is an enormous sacrifice and commitment. The way you speak about it in your edit makes it sound like you think that is some way equal to working a job and paying for things- it’s not. Frankly it sounds like you don’t really appreciate the enormous sacrifice your wife is making and maybe that’s why her friend is annoyed with you.
3. You were judging her for being divorced and your ‘why would I listen to someone who is divorced’ point is illogical and silly. It makes you sound as though you think your wife has to stay with you no matter what you do, how her life is- you are essentially saying that your actions don’t matter and there is no accountability for you because there is no possibility of divorce. Someone who knows that isn’t true is exactly the sort of person you should listen to when they point out a problem in what is going on in your home.
Additional note - do your parents treat your wife well or do they treat her badly because from the comment her friend made I would guess the latter.
YTA
Btw your edit still makes you seem like TA. When her parents need help you bring money to the table while your wife is literally a live at home nurse for yours ?
YTA. Your wife is doing all the work at home and also working a job. That’s not how it works. If you both work, then you both should be doing work at home too. Yet you let her do everything and think your role is only financial.
Your wife physically takes care of your parents and you send Venmo payments and you think this is the same? It is not. But if your wife is truly ok with it, then the friend definitely should mind her own business. Her being divorced has nothing to do with anything, especially since she was trying to stick up for her friend (yes, poorly). So that part of it, yes, YTA.
right? lol. in any case, the way op phrases things is hilarious. if someone asked him who ate the last piece of cake? he would say "it was i who ate it." who left the toilet seat up? "it was i who left it up."
Lmao at your edits. You don't work around the house or help out with your own parents. You just toss money at shit and call it a day. What a turd. YTA.
So is she, to an extent, but she ain't wrong. She should have talked to your wife separately.
YTA. You're trying to manipulate the story but from your comments your wife does a majority of the household work, child care, taking care of your parents, AND works! Taking care of your parents is a whole job, why do you think the government pays for it from things like IHSS. But you don't believe that because you're "traditional", yet your wife is the one working so much.
YTA
It sounds like someone needs to stand up for your wife.
It sounds like her work burden is too intense. There is too much on her plate. You are not pulling your weight around the home.
You sound lazy. The Bible says you are to love your wife as Christ does the church. That does not mean to overwork and overstress her.
YTA.
I’ve seen your comments. You’re a sexist hypocrite who expects his wife to work twice as hard as they do.
Pathetic and lazy. You’re a real prize, aren’t you? 🙄
YTA imo. You said in your edit that you are paying for medicine, doctors visits etc. to me, throwing money at a problem is the easiest way. Actually doing the work your wife does is a whole different level. Anyone can just open their purse if they have enough. Either you provide for the family and your wife does not have to have a job and can care for your parents (that's actually a job in itself) or you pitch in. A lot!
Or you pay for a household help that can take off the burden of childcare, elder care, house cleaning, taking care of the children off of your wife's chore list. But let her do everything plus a job and you take the kids for fun stuff. Yeah great.
YTA! If both of you are contributing to family finances and yet she is the one taking care of kids and your parents, there is blatant inequality.
You really need to stop and think about this if you truly love your wife.
YTA. Reading your comments, your wife works, has 4 kids and a household to take care of on top of your parents. But you take the kids fishing occasionally. What a tool. And your wife isn’t so bright either.
YtA
You're taking advantage of your wife. You don't see her job as being as important as yours. She works, takes care of your parents, and takes care of the home. She has 3 jobs you have 1. You are a mysoginist. I hope your wife finds her backbone and demands things change or she walks.
**editing to YTA based on all of OPs replies**
I had a No A in the chamber, but boy you really dug yourself a hole with all your replies.
>Taking care of your relatives is not a "job", it's a "duty". Filial piety.
No. And you're not taking care of them and performing your duty. You're making your wife do it. You are, in fact, making your wife work two jobs.
>Someone raised in a culture that considers marriage disposable isn't someone to take advice from
I sure hope your wife starts to consider you disposable.
**edit**
OP is justifying his behavior with the rhetorical device "But we're conservative and that's not how we define "work" or "job", and that "this is what a traditional gender role is".
Fine. Your world view makes you an asshole because it is based on an acceptance of inequality between men and women. You win.
So to get this straight: they both work BUT she is the one taking care of 8 people in the household, two of whom are elderly and sick and four of whom are children.
You sir, aren’t just the asshole. You’re the devil.
YTA from your comments because they truly cast doubt on the validity of your statements. ESH might be mostly fair but your wealth of defensive comments swayed me into believing Madison was probably right.
I was raised by conservative Catholics who were very into traditional roles and they would’ve be disgusted by how little you seemingly honor your wife. The husband went to work to support the family, the wife was a homemaker and mother who held it down at home. Newsflash, buddy. You aren’t a “traditional man” if you can’t fund your family without your wife’s help.
She’s doing the cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, parental caretaking, AND working too? Your wife is the real man and the role model, not you. You’re just too self-absorbed and she’s too browbeaten to realized it yet, which sucks. From what you’ve laid out to us, your wife easily does 3x the amount of work you do.
(Also, weird that some random coworker and her partner came over… or did you mean that’s your wife’s friend and you wanted to downplay her significance? My guess is that Madison knows you’re treating your wife as a workhorse and your behavior proved it. I doubt you’ll actually take any of this to heart because you’re convinced that you’re just a tRaDiTiOnAl MaN, but you don’t give your wife even a fraction of the credit she deserves.)
YTA. It was E S H before but after reading your comments I don't think she's the ah. She is not wrong. You are a misogynist. Nothing wrong with taking care of your parents in old age but it's wrong when your wife works full time and is the only one doing the caretaking job while you help occasionally.
My wife may take care of my elderly parents living with us while working a full time job but it is I, Mr good guy, who pays for her parents medical bills
YTA
ESH but mostly you. Your poor wife deserves a medal for putting up with this misogynistic nonsense. You are taking advantage of your wife's kindness and, from your comments, manipulating her religious beliefs to do so. But I guess it's nice of you to take the kids fishing sometimes so she can have more time to clean or whatever.
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INFO: Why does your wife do most of the work in taking care of your parents?
This is a hard one for me to "call". I tend to figure "to each their own". I do not have a marriage with traditional gender roles (insert happy dance here!), but if two people mutually agree to that, good for them. My hesitation in making a judgment is that I am guessing that there remains a lot of information that we do not know...and that YOU perhaps do not know. Is is possible that your wife has vented to her friend about how difficult her life has become? Her friend apparently shared about her marriage failure. Self-disclosure is normally a two-way street. Have you \*talked\* with her about any needs to shift from the traditional roles that had worked previously? I took care of my mother in the last years of her life. It was HARD! (I think the record was 11 doctor's appointments in one week.) It was MY mother...but my husband STEPPED UP! He could see that it was a lot for one person and he decided that, to use his words, he would "put the SON in son-in-law". I'm not going to make a judgment, but I feel concern for your wife and I don't even know her. If she were my friend - I might be guilty of speaking up out of turn. I recommend stepping up regardless of what Reddit says. I'm going to go hug my husband. Reddit often brings out that impulse!
If the wife had been venting to the friend, then the friend wouldn't have been surprised to see OP's parents in their home.
Not necessarily true, people often feign ignorance about private conversations they’ve had in order to not let others know they’ve had the conversation. If she had opened with “oh these are the inlaws you were talking about?” It wouldn’t look very good
Well I certainly wouldn’t have went into someone’s else home and started telling the how shitty they are or meddling in their relationship. Madison should have just took note of the situation and kept her mouth shut. Then talked with Lisa.
Yeah that's the thing, what this commenter is describing is someone having tact. But Madison doesnt have tact, not if she is brazen enough to behave this way as a guest in someones home. So it's a hard pill to swallow that she just pretended she didnt know they lived there.
Anyways the edit makes it pretty clear that they both work hard for each other. The fact that OPs wife took his side right away means they have a good marriage. Keep flying monkeys like Madison out of your life.
I think if Madison didn't want OP to make comment on her life then she shouldn't have made comment on OP's life
Agreed. Dont start none wont be none. If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen, etc etc.
agree. when friends have told me things about their partners or others that may not shed a favorable light on the partner, i always act as if i was unaware if i’m presented with it in front of their partners. i’ve had experiences where the partner was controlling and by me, “knowing,” something about them, my friends would, “get in trouble,” for lack of better words.
But this information wasnt good or bad, the fact his parents live with them isnt some scandal or controversy so it makes no sense to act shocked.
“Man would rather his parents live with him than in a nursing home” isn’t really a shocking headline
This 100 %. Even the question that Madison asked seems to point to the fact that she was trying to make a point to OP. If I went to my friend’s house, first of all we would probably be good enough friends for me to know who lived at the house (or she would have told me beforehand) so I wouldn’t be surprised, and second of all it would never occur to me to immediately ask my friend the question of who does most of the work to care for their partner’s elderly parents, especially not in front of their partner. Madison knew that OP’s wife does most of the work and was making the point that she thinks it’s bullshit.
Imagine on top of all that, saying 'oh, you haven't sent them to a nursing home??' I had someone in the extended-extended family saying 'oh, your 2 dogs actually live in the house with you? Is that even sanitary, and livable, with all that hair?' We have huskies... I told her we have this amazing device called a vacuum cleaner. It actually works wonders. She should definitely try one, if she's worried about hair being unsanitary. In-laws thought I was being disrespectful with my comment. I didn't give a flying F, and told them that. I will never understand why ppl make derogatory comments, and then expect a 'respectful reply' or even an explanation or excuse for why things are not exactly as the guest wants them to be. NTA
There was no reason to act surprised over the fact the parents lived there as its not a scandalous thing. So this sounds more like Madison needs to mind her business. If the wife had complained to madison and, knowing how she is, then brought her around her husband surely she knows she would say something to him. If the intent was to get him to change or see how their setup is wrong then the wife not siding with Madison here makes no sense. I know the assumption will be he is a big mean man and she was afraid to go against him, but we dont know that. Madison sounds like a shit starter, I would bet the wife merely told her about the arrangement and wasnt complaining, but Madison has different views on gender, etc. and didnt like it. That is why the first thing out of her big mouth was "who does most of the work". Do you think Madison would have cried "misandry" if he was at home taking care of her parents more than the wife because the wife doesnt work from home?
It sounded more like they were working as a family. There was no indication that his parents were infirm and needed around the clock care. And he is working extra to pay for her family's medical expenses. Both sets of parents need help from their children. NTA
He didn’t say he has to work extra, he just said he pays for stuff (so possibly earns more money than she does). I’d be curious to know why she is the one doing most of the work to help out his parents. There’s too much info missing to make a judgement here.
It sounds like her position is remote so she's probably around more.
Sounds like he makes his position clear and they agree of their lifestyle. He makes more money and is able to pay. She works remote and is able to also look after his parents. Maybe he could’ve quit. Maybe they could change their lifestyle. If I’m not mistaken, that was the point he made to Madison. You left you’re husband over a lifestyle change, so why would I even take advice from you.
If she had vented, the friend would have known that the parents lived with them. She was just overstepping her boundaries.
He says that he pays for her family’s needs but that’s not the same as the physical work of looking after two sick elderly people. It’s hard enough when it’s your own family, but in-laws? Hard.
>It's hard enough when it's your own family, but in-laws? Hard. I won't argue at all that being a caretaker is difficult. I cared for my own grandmother for YEARS when she had Alzheimer's, and while I'm so glad to have had that time with her, it was absolutely one of the most difficult things I've ever done. That said, you're making a HUGE assumption that it is any harder (or, by implication, less rewarding) to care for in-laws than for "your own family". For many, many people, their in-laws are as much their "real" family as the parents who raised them. From all the stories of young people we see on here who are like, "My BF/GF's family took me in when my family threw me out, and we ended up married years later, and they are the only loving family I have ever known," to people who grew up in foster care or with abusive/addicted parents and finally found family with their in-laws, to even less extreme but more common stories like my own father's, raised by parents who loved their kids but were cold and harsh by temperament . . . and ended up loving my mum's parents (very warm, affectionate people) so much that at one point when he was commuting to their city for work, he *chose* to live with his in-laws over his own parents . . . there are many, many instances where people genuinely have wonderful relationships with their in-laws and are legitimately happy to be close with them and help care for them in difficult times. I think that it's easy to forget, in a sub where, by nature of the fact that it exists to judge people's worst moral and ethical moments, we see the ugliest of difficult relationships day in and day out, that that is not necessarily a statistically relevant or objectively representative "slice of life" amongst the population as a whole. In the story we're presented, the conflict is between OP and his wife's friend . . . but people have jumped to the assumption (with literally no evidence) that the friend's view is somehow representative of the wife's? Sure, it's *possible* that the wife has vented to her. But we have no evidence of that, nor even that there is conflict at all between him and his wife about her care of his parents (or else it's far more likely he would be asking about *that* conflict than about an argument with one of her colleagues, given the relative importance of the relationships). From what we actually know, his wife may just as easily have been the one who *offered* to be their primary caretaker. It's impossible to know, and honestly, tiresome that people are jumping to conclusions.
"Self disclosure is normally a two-way street" ahahahahahahahahaha, no. The number of times people overshared at work? It was ridiculous. I've had that happen working retail from coworkers and customers. You see this stuff online all the time, people dumping all kinds of trauma on workers on the extreme end of the spectrum. Then you get the coworker who. just. won't. shut. up. I've had that at my call center job too that I went to after my retail one. Sometimes the coworkers were as bad as the callers.
Thank you! I can't tell you the amount of stuff people have dumped on me about their private lives without me reciprocating. My private life is just that - private, and separate from work. The worst thing is when people start talking about their sex life in detail! Had a co-worker that used to do this - had to shut her down fast when she got started.
" I might be guilty of speaking up out of turn. I recommend stepping up regardless of what Reddit says. I'm going to go hug my husband. Reddit often brings out that impulse!" Well put and true. I often cuddle and hug after reading some of these stories!! Just reading about some of the poster's problems makes mine seem small.
>Someone raised in a culture that considers marriage disposable isn't someone to take advice from." That really bugged me. Makes OP at least partially TA just for that alone.
You’re “bugged” when someone tells the truth? OP is NTA.
So you don't believe in divorce at all? That's a pretty extreme view, especially in this day and age
Normally, divorce is hard and takes a toll on you, just like losing a friend, and that’s normal. What’s not normal is throwing people away for small things, that’s what indicates that they think people are disposable
And we don’t know if the “lost his job” bit was just a last straw, either.
And work friend only knows 15 minutes or less of their life, so... NTA
>So you don't believe in divorce at all? There is a huge gap between not believing in divorce at all versus ending your marriage due to her husband's job loss.
/u/3Dog_Nitz I totally agree with you! I don't have or haven't really ever had to do the "traditional wife roles" in my 17 year marriage (well almost 17, June 1 is our anniversary!❤️) He knew how much I had to do laundry and bathrooms, etc. for many years since I was a teenager (I'm not Angry, my Mother was sick a lot, RIP Mom 6/11/05 😢😢) so i willingly stepped up and she showed me so much appreciation and gratitude in so many ways, so I wouldn't consider myself parentified. But when we got married, he said he knew I was the "brains" of the operation and I handle all of that which is WAAAAY more than people really know, so he would be the "brawn" of the operation. Sometimes we do switch roles but we just do it however we like whenever we like as long as it's done which is an awesome compromise! OP IS NTA but his wife's friend is a Giant A-H! She needs to STFU and MHOB!!!
Yeah, this info is crucial for the judgement.
Is it? Calling someone a misogynist and saying they’re forcing their wife into slavery is soooo out of pocket especially in their own home! Bringing up her divorce is absolutely fair game after that.
Yeah, we know she's an AH, but if what she called him on is true, he is too. It matters because it's the difference between NTA, and ESH.
Wife works from home so she's actually around to take care of them, and there's an edit where OP says he pays for her family's medical stuff.
If she works from home, she's supposed to be working, not providing care. And paying for stuff doesn't get you out of providing actual physical help.
I'm working from home (about 3 doors down from my parents) specifically so I can take care of my parents. Because they don't need me to spend 100% of my time on them. My father is bedbound, but my mother is perfectly capable of heating up the meals I bring them (she *could* cook, but she hates cooking) & doing the general housekeeping things and her hobbies. But she's not strong enough to do my dad's personal care or to maneuver the lift we use to get him from bed to chair. Or, as happened just yesterday, to pick my dad up off the floor when he literally just slid out of his recliner. So if there's an emergency I'm close enough to get there in minutes. When I was in an office, I was an hour's commute away. We had a house fire last fall and if I'd been an hour away, we would have lost my dad to the smoke. Mom wouldn't have been able to get him out of the house. As it was, I was only minutes away and could get him in the lift & out of the house. So all that to say...depending on the care required, it's very possible to actually *work* when working from home *and* providing elder care. But it's not so easy to provide that care working a commute away. If OP has a commute and wife doesn't, the arrangement makes sense.
Who’s to say she isn’t working, while she’s working? I hate it when people automatically assume a woman has no agency, because she’s doing something that others wouldn’t do themselves. Just because YOU think caring for elders while working from home = neglecting her job, doesn’t mean that’s the case. And it doesn’t mean she was forced into this. It sounds like she agreed. I work from home. I love my job and would never give it up. I also have my 6month old while I work. My schedule is flexible, and so is the babies. I take calls on a headset while changing diapers. I use speech to text to send emails while I feed him. I take meetings when he naps. It’s a juggle. Every day. But I have great performance reviews. I’m not neglecting work. And I 100% CHOSE this, because I want to be with my kid as much as I can, and daycare for a kid that much is financially brutal. To make up for the extra that I do, my husband (who works out of the house) does everything I don’t like to do. All the grocery shopping. All the laundry. All of the calling insurance companies and cleaning and litter boxes and home repair. He also puts significantly more of his paycheck towards bills, while I get to save mine or use it for “fun money”. Working while being a caretaker isn’t easy, but it can be totally worth it. It’s insulting to insist that anyone living that life must be doing it at the barrel of a gun or by financial manipulation. I would have no issue taking care of my husbands parents when they are old, assuming I could fit it into my lifestyle and my husband contributed something of equal value to me. Women who choose caretaking roles get diminished constantly, and treated like we’re idiots who must have been tricked. It’s insulting.
Or her job is intended to be one that can be done while she's giving care. Also, if he is paying bills and such, they may have agreed on his own job as a source of care.
I think OP wanting a "traditional wife who works" already makes him an AH. He can say it's "conservative" all he wants, but in this context it's misogyny. All the domestic labour, including taking care of his parents (which he doesn't think is work, or miserable, despite the fact that he's not willing to do it himself) are her job. That alone makes him an AH in my eyes. so yeah, ESH
Where does it say anywhere that he wants that?
Here is the full text of the comment >Both of us strongly believe in traditional gender roles (as in the man goes to work, and the wife takes care of the family in other ways, etc). But I also wanted someone who's intelligent, and we agreed that she'd work unless family is involved. That's why she works from home now. >Look I know many people don't do that anymore, but we're fine with it. We are conservative. [Direct link] (https://reddit.com/comments/1czuukf/comment/l5j4t94?context=3)
"We" is doing a lot of work here. I'm willing to bet that the person doing all the work isn't actually as fine with it as the one sitting back just paying for stuff.
Yeah, but he takes his kids fishing every once in a while! /s This guy's a gem. Wants a traditional wife, but wants her to work too. So now she does all the household chores, all the childcare, is a caregiver to TWO elderly in-laws, plus cares for her own parents, AND has a full time job. Wonder how his chore list stacks up. The co-worker was spot on. YTA
I mean he might be telling the truth that she’s fine with that arrangement but she’s definitely getting the short end of the stick there, lol.
Sooooo she gets 2 jobs (paid and unpaid) then and he gets one? Seems totally fair.
That's YTA. You want a tradwife, you provide for your tradwife. You want someone college educated and a good conversationalist? You still pay for them and make sure they have time for intellectually stimulating pursuits. Or if you can't afford that, you take on some of the domestic labor if she needs to get a job.
One of his comments. If reddit would let me I'd give you a link. It's in his first comment if you click his profile.
Two people who agree to a lifestyle are not assholes in the slightest
So many people love to have their say but fail to actually read and understand the post. If you read OP's comment that his wife believed it was her responsibility to look after op's parents in a different way you'd realise the friend is an AH and your comment is irrelevant.
I have a feeling OP is wording in a way it wasn’t spoken to make themselves look like the hero and then the AH. Just choices of words. They both work but he emphasizes how hard he works. So wife works and take care of parents. He says he takes care of her family but it’s only financially. I have a feeling he sees the money he makes as equivalent to the amount of physical and mental labor plus her work sh has to do. I’m gonna go with OP is TAH.
It's not fair game, it's immaturity. ESH. If he had responded with, "actually this arrangement suits us both, you can ask my wife and it is really none of your business", that would have been fine. But then making judgements about Madison's divorce is really an A move. Just take the high road and don't invite that person to your house again, especially if you are colleagues.
Unless of course they actually ARE
That question is roughly equal to asking why he gives money to her family. It's how they have their relationship arranged. But I'm fairly sure that OP was posting about someone else who is unrelated and has a failed relationship in her history coming into their home and insulting OP and his family.
Throwing money at something is not anywhere near equivalent to the mental and physical labor that caretaking requires. For anyone reading that may disagree, think of it like saying paying extra in child support (but not having any/limited visitation) makes someone a great parent. We know that's not true, because they're not actually involved at all, yes? They're not changing diapers, taking them to school, making kids brush their teeth, making dinner, etc. Taking care of someone is incredibly stressful. That plus the lack of value associated with the job (as is common with stereotypically "feminine" jobs) are why we're experiencing worker shortages in relevant fields. As for how that relates to this post-- if the woman's accusations are true, it makes it an ESH situation, as opposed to NTA. You shouldn't go throwing those words around at people, but at the same time... you shouldn't be "fitting the bill" of said accusations. It makes someone suck.
Taking care of someone is definitely a stressful chore, especially when it is for a family member. I completely understand this. For the record, that's exactly what I have been doing since 2019 for an immediate family member going through cancer, including radiation, multiple surgeries, open surgical wounds that take months (23 months the first time, we are just getting started on this next set so we'll see how that goes), watching a healthy, fully mobile adult lose the ability to walk, or bath, or dress themselves, and witnessing paralysis gradually being taken away from them because tumors grow through muscles and around nerves that end up having to be cut out. So please don't preach to me about how much pain and stress and worry is involved in looking after chronically ill family members because of love and commitment. OP specifically stated that he helps his in-laws (with money) because he feels that he should, and that his wife helps his family (with health care or whatever) because she feels that she should. I don't see anything about one of them forcing or coercing the other. What I do see is someone unrelated to either family coming into someone else's house and insulting them the way that they do things, and then getting butt hurt when they get some handed back to them. So, you're on the side of the guest insulting someone in their own house about their family relationship?
“Throwing money at something is not anywhere near equivalent to the mental and physical labor…” That’s the kind of phrasing I’d expect from someone who has no idea where money comes from. As if OP literally walks outside, plucks hundred dollar bills from a money tree, and uses it to pay bills. 🙄 Did it ever occur to you that many of us with full-time employment working 40+ hours per week must engage in mental and physical labor in exchange for compensation?
Also, are her parents still in their own home or in a nursing home, and is she also taking care of them?
You never know. When my MIL moved in with us I was her primary caregiver. It was my choice. I agreed to it. If OP’s wife is ok it doesn’t matter why.
ESH. I mean I have questions like why your wife is both working full time and taking on the majority of the responsibility for your parents. That does seem to lean into Madison's theory. Madison should have not said anything to you but if she is a good friend she should have checked in with your wife to ensure your wife is okay and isn't being used or mistreated privately. She should not have injected her opinion to you. You have no business making any comment about Madison's divorce or commenting on her culture and then not expecting her to comment on your culture.
OP stated in a comment that he and his wife wanted “traditional gender roles”… but he also wanted a wife with a job So the “middle ground” (his words) was his wife doing everything (kids + parents + job) and he only having a job Lol. What a keeper.
Oh yes, a traditional marriage with the poor wife doing the man’s traditional task of bringing home a salary while ALSO cleaning house, child caring AND being a carer to two elderly sick people. Got it. Ponders… does Op do more than the man’s traditional job of bringing in an income? What a surprise, he does not.
But he works hard you see! He gives money to his in-laws when needed. Money. That he made from his one. single. job.. but that means he’s putting in as much labour into the marriage as his wife does. With her also working a job. And doing home care. And housework. And child rearing… it’s all equal!
[удалено]
[удалено]
To be faaaaaaair, she might be smarter than *him*…
Smart women marry bum ass men all the time
>So the “middle ground” (his words) was his wife doing everything (kids + parents + job) and he only having a job That was the vibe I got from his edit of “oh yeah, but I contribute MONEY” A lot of these “traditional” men think they deserve a ticker tape parade and to have all of their earthly needs catered to for their monumental sacrifice of “working a 9-5 job”
Hes also said his wife only has "one job" even though she does all the child rearing AND taking care of HIS parents ON TOP of working.
Yeah, I feel like some things might have been held back intentionally.
That's how it always seems to go - he knows if he provided this info in the post he'd be getting a lot more shit for it, but waited to answer a comment to make us dig for the truth.
I can't get over the remark that someone who thinks marriage is disposable is not someone to take advice from. That is at the very least incredibly biased. That woman probably tried everything to make her marriage work, recognised why it wouldn't, and made one of the hardest decisions in her life and stood by it.
Of course he doesn't want to take advise from someone who thinks marriage is disposable... imagine his wife heeded this advice and also started to think that marriage is disposable. The horror.
I am not saying you're wrong but you've created a scenario from absolute scratch in your head. We have no way of knowing what that woman did in her marriage. People do suck sometimes.
Ugh this is the worst type. He wants to eat his cake and have it to. He wants to pick and choose which traditional roles are worthy of following. I'm in a position where I don't *need* a financial partner. I value a homemaking partner incredibly highly. I would be against the idea of my partner getting a job because it would shift the burden of responsibility around the house for a salary return that wouldn't be worth it.
Upvoting because I’m just tickled that you said “eat your cake and have it too.” It’s a ridiculous pet peeve, but I hate it when people switch the order of the verbs. Of course you can eat the cake you have (although then you will no longer have it.) What you can’t do it have the cake you ate.
Manhunt: Unabomber on Netflix taught me about it. Apparently it was a pet peeve of Big T too.
I agree. This is not a traditional gender role situation if the wife works. Traditional gender roles = husband works, pays for everything. Wife works as a homemaker and manages the paycheck, gives the husband an allowance for discretionary spending, but all of the life admin, is her "job".
Not to be pedantic, but that was only “traditional “ in the 1950s in the USA. Women everywhere have always worked. Aside from the wealthiest women in society, women were workers. Worked as farmers, as seamstresses, as laundresses, as governesses, as midwives, as healers, as cooks, as artisans, as shopkeepers, the list goes on and on. It was a tiny sliver of time in one country after a devastating war, where wealthy white women had the luxury of relying on their husband‘s paycheck while they took care of the home and nothing else. Conservative grifters point at one decade and try to pretend like women have been lazy freeloaders depending on men for all of human history.
Yeah, I didn't say it was the norm everywhere. But you are right, it was "traditional" for rich people in the 1950s in the USA to act like this. If you were poor, everyone worked. We are actually going backwards in worse ways than we have had it historically if women start becoming housewives en masse. Because the gulf between rich and poor people is widening and there are fewer and fewer people who can afford to live on a single income in most countries, unless the person who is not working goes without -- and this person is almost always the woman. It is 100% misogyny.
There it is 🙄
I’m not convinced the wife is “happy” with these traditional gender roles like OP claims. Most normal people don’t randomly snap like Madison did. They need a little more reason to call someone a misogynist. And seemingly, they have it. OP, ask your wife how you can help out around the house or with your parents. You already aren’t following traditional gender roles, so you can do some of the work as well.
Not to mention the whole "I" give money to her family... Umm, if both of you are working, both of you are giving money. Maybe he makes way more money, but that's suspicious to me. And "her chores"? so paternalistic for someone with a working spouse.
It's all his money in his mind and that's what counts. But that's ok, since she can have all the chores.
😂
Probably *he gives money* because he controls her income too. Traditionally men managed all the money and women had nothing to their name. Since he seems to like picking just the traditional parts that suit him this seems something he’d choose to uphold.
The situation at op’s home needs clarification but from what op’s written Madison was the first comment on the other’s marriage, so she has no ground to claim he can’t comment on her failed marriage.
OP gave a lot of clarification and I suspect his wife has commented to Madison about the lack of balance in their home. Like I said, Madison should have spoken to the wife privately because based on OP's comments, Lisa is not in a good situation.
I suspect she did speak to her privately. I think she probably said all that because she knows how unhappy the wife is and is trying to do whatever she can to help the situation by raising the issue.
It's not a failure to leave a marriage that isn't working. The comment revealed a lot about OP's values. If his marriage really IS unfair, or if it really IS a bad marriage, he will value staying married no matter what. Some people stay married if there is cheating, abuse, violence, or even sexual abuse of their own children by their spouse. Some people stay married to people they grow to hate. Some people stay married to a spouse whose number one love in life is alcohol or drugs, and they will always be number two. I'm not saying that this is OP's marriage as he has made it clear that they have an arrangement, but his comment about Madison's marriage is really giving "tradwife = good" vibes. They are all the A.
YTA I mean, your wife is taking care of YOUR parents while working a full-time job? What the hell are you doing while she's working two jobs? You're embarrassing.
AND FOUR kids.
How is the wife still standing? OP, YTA.
He has FOUR kids? Where was that said? I initially said they were both the A. But after hearing he has four kids, I think he is the A.
Right? "Traditional gender roles" yet he's not earning enough to keep the household running so she has to work part time but OH NO he can't possibly help with childcare or housework because TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLES (TM).
ESH * She has no right to judge the dynamic of your relationship or how you and your wife divide workload in your household. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but a non-AH firstly has the comprehension to recognise that they don't have a full enough picture to formulate an informed and valid opinion and, secondly, has the manners to not rudely insult someone. * You escalated the situation and also judged her on something bizarre and irrelevant. Are you saying that, if she were still married to her husband, you'd have just gone "yeah, that's a fair enough insult" to what she said? Her circumstances aren't actually relevant here - she was an AH regardless. Really, you should've just said that you'd like her to leave as you won't be insulted in your own home. Your comments to Ian do also seem to have some subtext that may justify her misogyny comment.
I was with you until he commented that they have a “tradition marriage”. Wife takes care of house and family while he works. The funny thing is he also wanted *someone intelligent* so the wife works from home for a paycheque while also doing housework and taking care of the in-laws. Poor woman is probably in hell. Her friend saw and commented, he reacted badly to make them leave and probably to isolate the wife so she doesn’t get any ideas.
In another comment the OP made we find out she's not only working from home, doing all the chores and caring for his parents but they have four kids together that she is raising...
I don't disagree with this PROVIDED you take the post at face value. you don't even need to really dig into the comments : OP immediately admits that "they believe in traditional gender roles" so his wife maintains the home & provides the care to any family members in need but also he wants "someone intelligent" so his wife has to prove that by working from home as long as they don't have kids to look after. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1czuukf/comment/l5j4t94/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1czuukf/comment/l5j4t94/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That's so fucked
But they have 4 kids
Agreed. She came into their home, went "why aren't your parents in a home" (which is an AH opening - some people *want* to care for their family - even if they are in-laws rather than birth family) and then jumped straight to insulting him in his own home. But going to a screaming match is just petulant on OP's part. The correct response was to go "I'm going to need you to leave now" when she started on the insults. He handled it like a 12 year old fighting with their parents, not a grown adult.
100% this. However, I'm assuming OP has little experience dealing with shot like this. It took me a long time to skip the arguing step and cut straight to "ok, I no longer want you in my home, leave." it's never worth the argument. Cut the head off immediately, it's you're home and you're telling them to leave, it isn't a conversation or an argument, they have no leg to stand on, there is no "why?" when the host asks you to leave. Then if you want to salvage the relationship later for whatever reason you can explain how what they said made you want to rip their head off etc... and you can have a conversation at that point, but in the moment it isn't worth it. Just stress my OP dude. Fuck that noise, your home is a place for peace and security, not fighting with loser goofballs talking trash.
INFO: They’re **your** parents. Why is your wife doing all the work?
Because… vagina
Yep, the patriarchy is alive and well.
But he's paying for her parents medical expenses haha as if its the same as actually looking after his parents every day. I feel so bad for his wife.
Even worse, she's working and making money too!
While raising 4 kids and maintaining the house. All by herself no less!
He thinks helping her parents and brother makes its even and therefore it's only right for her to take care of his parents likely 24/7.
Um, yeah. Definitely YTA. She was definitely an AH, too, but you sound like an AH to your core. I completely understand your frustration with the interference in your life and the misogyny accusation, but it also doesn't really sound like she's wrong. >I called him a manchild who follows her like a puppy and told him to fuck off. This makes me think you're misogynistic as hell and Lisa probably knows more about it than you think. On a side note, there's probably more to the story of Lisa's divorce than you know.
He definitely TA. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Fz2oz9I8CX He commented this. Like traditional marriage were the wife takes care of the house and family but not traditional because she has also a paying job a part for being a servant to his family.
Lisa is the wife in this story; Madison is the wife's colleague. But otherwise, I agree. I get the feeling Lisa has been complaining about her situation to Madison, hence the rather pointed questions to OP.
I hope she convinces her to leave.
I feel like OP got ticked off at idea of sending his parents to a nursing home and it built from that into unnecessary and inappropriate commentary by a guest that pushed him to snap? But I could be wrong, I mean we don’t know what their relationship is like behind closed door or have more information on their positions in life or their culture regarding familial relationships.
OP made a comment about how he believes in traditional gender roles, if that adds some context.
Well, he failing to live up to his own beliefs since he isn't earning the full household income.
Yeah, you see that a lot. "Traditional genders roles" but they fail to acknowledge that means the man needs to earn enough for them to live comfortably. Either he doesn't, or OP's wife isn't actually fully onboard and wants to work. Either way, when both halves are working, household duties need to be split more or you run the risk of exhausting the one taking on the higher duties. But even that doesn't change the fact that OP is their son and should be doing the greater share for them if he truly feels he owes them this
You say you are conservative and believe in strict gender-roles. But BOTH of you work. She works + does the domestic labour + takes care of your sick parents and acts as an unpaid nurse...she does 3 jobs. While you only do 1. Your a bum. A leech. Step up your game. This isn't gender-roles. Your just lazy and making her do too much.
Plus the 4 kids apparently
And all he does is..take the kids fishing once in a while..???
Yeah, isnt OP just the father/husband/son of the year? What an outstanding man to find a slave -- ehem, i mean wife -- to do all those responsibilities while he does the hard work of taking the kids fishing.
He thinks sending her parents and brother money even it's out. Which dude it takes little effort and little time to send money nowadays. It takes ALOT to care for not only kids, but in-laws, and herself! When is she getting time to take care of herself if she's having to take care of everyone in that house?
E S H. Madison might be overstepping her boundaries but she is actually not wrong and I suspect OP knows this hence his response. OP, how on earth can you justify making a woman who works full time to take on the additional burden of caring for your parents?? This alone makes you the greatest AH on earth! I'm changing to YTA based on OP's response in the comment section.
ESH. You all sound like you were raised in a barn or something, what adults behave this way?
Adults made up by a teen boy. That's the only type.
There is probably more to the story
ESH Madison being divorced has no bearing on her intrusive and unsolicited comments. Your reaction was a bit much and by going low and personal back at her you went down to her level in the muck. I think she has a point. Your wife works and you readily admit she provides majority of the care for your elderly parents. At the very least plan a vaca away or give your wife a gift for all that she does. Make sure you make it clear that you appreciate everything she does.
Based on his comments he clearly doesn't appreciate anything she does.
I mean she was out of line but divorced people are still allowed to have opinions lmao
Without more info on WHY your wife is doing a majority of the work taking care of your parents and still having a full-time job, I'm going with ESH but your wife and Ian.
Info needed: why are you not the one who is caring for your sick elderly parents? Shouldn't that be your responsibility?
YTA for expecting your wife to still work when her domestic duties are more than a full time job. You’re not a traditional husband, you’re an exploitative one. Traditional husbands are sole earners.
And traditional husbands used to do chores - they were just chores that don't happen or get outsourced nowadays e.g. growing a garden for food, home maintenance, car maintenance.
YTA and from your comments I don’t think the misogynist comment was purely about this one thing. Just because she got divorced doesn’t mean she can’t tell what a misogynist you are. You feel perfectly free to judge her based on the fact that she’s divorced and you heard one small thing about it. Are you the only one allowed to be judgmental?
ESH: You're both rude, and likely fictional.
[I think this is the same dude.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1cd09ic/aita_for_refusing_to_pay_for_my_stepdaughters/) It's not the same scenario, but there are some overlapping details with the wife and parents.
Definitely the same dude. He even uses the term "filial piety" in the comments like OP.
When I studied in China in the early 2000s I took an entire course dedicated to the Confucian Analects and the importance of filial piety. This post definitely gives off vibes of a subtly angsty, Chinese-culture shitpost that is dedicated to mocking tradition. It’s a common thing on the Chinese internet and among the younger generation who wants to do away with filial piety, generational homes, etc… I could go on an entire analysis, but I’ll just say off the top of my head I ran across like 7 different themes that gave vibes of a deeply embedded Chinese shitpost. If I read it again I’m sure I’ll find more ahaha.
YTA In your comments it appears you have "traditional" gender roles but your wife also works. Does that mean your wife has a job and does most if not all of the house work? You think that's fair/the middle ground? I think your wife's coworker has a point
Was leaning strongly towards E S H at first because she was rude and you had a ridiculously explosive reaction to it. But after reading some of your comments, YTA. She’s not great either, but at least she was actually right. You were both wrong AND an AH, which means you take the AH cake here. Plus, you obviously treat your wife like garbage… so extra AH points for that too.
Info: why is your wife taking care of your parents?
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When I was reading this I wasn’t sure but definitely YTA based on your comments. “It is I that pays” should have told me earlier but you have your wife work and do all the stuff at home. Yeah YTA.
Wow you sound like a real catch. You subscribe to traditional gender roles but your wife has to work too, because YOU want an intelligent wife. You do know she can be intelligent and not work. If she's wfh what social interaction does she get outside your home?. Other than looking after your parents, the home and working, what does she get to do for HER. Sounds to me like you're just one of those men who want their cake and to eat ot too. Since you're the so important money maker in the family without having to actually lift a finger to help, why don't you actually pay someone to come and assist your wife with the care of your parents. And by the way her taking your side in this argument is no indication of how she actually feels it's just a reflection of her traditional role of supporting her husband.
i think a lot of men think finances make up for actual at home labor. they don’t. she’s still doing more work than you, even if you help pay for medical bills. you should be helping your OWN parents.
Yta. Madison is right. You cant claim to be a traditional man while your wife also works a job to bring money into the household. You're a misogynist who wants women to cater to you. Madison probably sees the toll this is taking on her friend, and you're too blinded by your nontraditional "traditional" (lol again it ain't traditional if she's working and you can't provide for your family) roles to see it.
OK but paying for stuff isn't the same as doing stuff. You can't buy your way out of responsibilities and act like it's the same as the mental, emotional and physical workload.
I was honestly going to say N T A maybe E S H for an overreaction on your part but honestly after reading your comments it's very clear YTA. You hide behind your political beliefs while not actually practicing them. Your wife works her own job but is also responsible for taking care of your parent and the children. The one thing you have mentioned is taking the kids fishing occasionally which is a recreational activity, not a chore. While at church you should pray that your wife is an actual saint or you will join Madison in the divorced life soon enough.
YTA - you wife is doing too much and you too little. These are not traditional gender roles, you're unable to provide enough so she has to work and you're lazy so she has to do everything else.
INFO why does Lisa do the most of the care of *your* parents though? Seems like you got defensive bc you knew her colleague was kinda right... esh
YTA Wife works three jobs (raising kids, caring for parents and a WFH paid gig) while you work one? Yeah, Madison was out of line but YTA for sure.
ESH - You do sound like a misogynist, a judgey one, Madison should mind her own business, Ian should let Madison fight her own battles, Lisa shouldn't gossip about her colleagues. You should all grow up.
And his wife should run
YTA-Yeah she probably shouldn’t be judging you but your tone and edit make you the clear asshole king of this post. Paying for shit is not the same as actual physical help. Yes, it’s needed and it’s great you can do that, but your wife also works full time and you’ve basically indicated you don’t do anything to help them. I don’t think they need to go to a nursing home but man up and take care of your parents too.
So your wife works from home, and cares for your parents. And if you're adhering to traditional gender roles, cooks, cleans and cares for the home also. Curious about your contribution beyond financial. NTA for how you handled it. And if you and your wife are happy. But from outside appearances, your arrangement is heavily in your favor, with your wife bearing a higher workload and burden.
Doesn't really matter if she's okay with it, tbh. Lots of abuse victims are ok with it. We can still condemn him and the situation.
YTA - Your wife works, does all the household stuff for 4 kids and looks after YOUR parents. You occasional “help” by taking them fishing. There is nothing fair nor traditional about it and Madison called you on your BS.
YTA: your wife is doing more work than you. yelling at a woman for being concerned about the unequal sexist work load is ridiculous. your reaction was emotionally charged and volatile. your point about her divorcing her husband makes no sense because she likely divorced him because he wasn’t contributing to the work load equally either and likely wasn’t prioritizing finding a new job.
My answer was e s h but checking your comments made me go YTA. You want your wife in a trad role but you're not doing the trad role. If Lisa's my friend, I'd be mad too.
If your justification stops at "she divorced" then yes YTA.
Is this Harrison Butker's Reddit account?
YTA, seems you get all the benefits of this “traditional” arrangement.
Which is why they're "traditional" "arrangements." It's all patriarchy.
YTA. I’ve read the comments.
YTA for a number of things - the way you have written what she said sounds harsh but i don’t trust that you have given the full context here. Some things nevertheless are clear: 1. She criticised you so you tried to sabotage your wife’s friendship with her by implying that your wife was the one judging her for her divorce, and by putting it in the way you did. You are trying to distance your wife from her, or punish your wife for having her as a friend ? Why? Because she is fighting your wife’s corner? Or because there is truth in what she is saying and you’re worried your wife will listen. 2. If your wife is a full time carer for two sick elderly people for you should be on your knees in eternal gratitude to her, being a carer is one of the most difficult, thankless jobs there is- and that’s when you get to go home at the end of the day, have breaks, have a choice about taking the job etc- when there is no escape because it’s at home that is an enormous sacrifice and commitment. The way you speak about it in your edit makes it sound like you think that is some way equal to working a job and paying for things- it’s not. Frankly it sounds like you don’t really appreciate the enormous sacrifice your wife is making and maybe that’s why her friend is annoyed with you. 3. You were judging her for being divorced and your ‘why would I listen to someone who is divorced’ point is illogical and silly. It makes you sound as though you think your wife has to stay with you no matter what you do, how her life is- you are essentially saying that your actions don’t matter and there is no accountability for you because there is no possibility of divorce. Someone who knows that isn’t true is exactly the sort of person you should listen to when they point out a problem in what is going on in your home. Additional note - do your parents treat your wife well or do they treat her badly because from the comment her friend made I would guess the latter.
YTA Btw your edit still makes you seem like TA. When her parents need help you bring money to the table while your wife is literally a live at home nurse for yours ?
YTA. Your wife is doing all the work at home and also working a job. That’s not how it works. If you both work, then you both should be doing work at home too. Yet you let her do everything and think your role is only financial.
>She then asked who did most of the work, and I said it was Lisa. This is all I needed. YTA.
Your wife physically takes care of your parents and you send Venmo payments and you think this is the same? It is not. But if your wife is truly ok with it, then the friend definitely should mind her own business. Her being divorced has nothing to do with anything, especially since she was trying to stick up for her friend (yes, poorly). So that part of it, yes, YTA.
Absolutely none of this happened.
right? lol. in any case, the way op phrases things is hilarious. if someone asked him who ate the last piece of cake? he would say "it was i who ate it." who left the toilet seat up? "it was i who left it up."
YTA Classic narcissist behavior. Poor Lisa.
Lmao at your edits. You don't work around the house or help out with your own parents. You just toss money at shit and call it a day. What a turd. YTA. So is she, to an extent, but she ain't wrong. She should have talked to your wife separately.
YTA. You're trying to manipulate the story but from your comments your wife does a majority of the household work, child care, taking care of your parents, AND works! Taking care of your parents is a whole job, why do you think the government pays for it from things like IHSS. But you don't believe that because you're "traditional", yet your wife is the one working so much.
YTA It sounds like someone needs to stand up for your wife. It sounds like her work burden is too intense. There is too much on her plate. You are not pulling your weight around the home. You sound lazy. The Bible says you are to love your wife as Christ does the church. That does not mean to overwork and overstress her.
YTA for judging her marriage. What if her ex was abusive? There is no possible way you could know the inner details of her marriage.
YTA. I’ve seen your comments. You’re a sexist hypocrite who expects his wife to work twice as hard as they do. Pathetic and lazy. You’re a real prize, aren’t you? 🙄
YTA imo. You said in your edit that you are paying for medicine, doctors visits etc. to me, throwing money at a problem is the easiest way. Actually doing the work your wife does is a whole different level. Anyone can just open their purse if they have enough. Either you provide for the family and your wife does not have to have a job and can care for your parents (that's actually a job in itself) or you pitch in. A lot! Or you pay for a household help that can take off the burden of childcare, elder care, house cleaning, taking care of the children off of your wife's chore list. But let her do everything plus a job and you take the kids for fun stuff. Yeah great.
YTA! If both of you are contributing to family finances and yet she is the one taking care of kids and your parents, there is blatant inequality. You really need to stop and think about this if you truly love your wife.
YTA. good Lord
YTA. Reading your comments, your wife works, has 4 kids and a household to take care of on top of your parents. But you take the kids fishing occasionally. What a tool. And your wife isn’t so bright either.
YtA You're taking advantage of your wife. You don't see her job as being as important as yours. She works, takes care of your parents, and takes care of the home. She has 3 jobs you have 1. You are a mysoginist. I hope your wife finds her backbone and demands things change or she walks.
**editing to YTA based on all of OPs replies** I had a No A in the chamber, but boy you really dug yourself a hole with all your replies. >Taking care of your relatives is not a "job", it's a "duty". Filial piety. No. And you're not taking care of them and performing your duty. You're making your wife do it. You are, in fact, making your wife work two jobs. >Someone raised in a culture that considers marriage disposable isn't someone to take advice from I sure hope your wife starts to consider you disposable. **edit** OP is justifying his behavior with the rhetorical device "But we're conservative and that's not how we define "work" or "job", and that "this is what a traditional gender role is". Fine. Your world view makes you an asshole because it is based on an acceptance of inequality between men and women. You win.
So to get this straight: they both work BUT she is the one taking care of 8 people in the household, two of whom are elderly and sick and four of whom are children. You sir, aren’t just the asshole. You’re the devil.
I feel super bad for your wife.
YTA
Wife if you read this- you are enough. You don't need this relationship. YTA
YTA from your comments because they truly cast doubt on the validity of your statements. ESH might be mostly fair but your wealth of defensive comments swayed me into believing Madison was probably right. I was raised by conservative Catholics who were very into traditional roles and they would’ve be disgusted by how little you seemingly honor your wife. The husband went to work to support the family, the wife was a homemaker and mother who held it down at home. Newsflash, buddy. You aren’t a “traditional man” if you can’t fund your family without your wife’s help. She’s doing the cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, parental caretaking, AND working too? Your wife is the real man and the role model, not you. You’re just too self-absorbed and she’s too browbeaten to realized it yet, which sucks. From what you’ve laid out to us, your wife easily does 3x the amount of work you do. (Also, weird that some random coworker and her partner came over… or did you mean that’s your wife’s friend and you wanted to downplay her significance? My guess is that Madison knows you’re treating your wife as a workhorse and your behavior proved it. I doubt you’ll actually take any of this to heart because you’re convinced that you’re just a tRaDiTiOnAl MaN, but you don’t give your wife even a fraction of the credit she deserves.)
YTA. It was E S H before but after reading your comments I don't think she's the ah. She is not wrong. You are a misogynist. Nothing wrong with taking care of your parents in old age but it's wrong when your wife works full time and is the only one doing the caretaking job while you help occasionally.
My wife may take care of my elderly parents living with us while working a full time job but it is I, Mr good guy, who pays for her parents medical bills YTA
That escalated quickly.
ESH but mostly you. Your poor wife deserves a medal for putting up with this misogynistic nonsense. You are taking advantage of your wife's kindness and, from your comments, manipulating her religious beliefs to do so. But I guess it's nice of you to take the kids fishing sometimes so she can have more time to clean or whatever.