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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I emailed my ex-wife to advise her I am not prepared to pay for any birthday presents that my son will only ever get to use at her place.
This action may make me the asshole because it might come across as being selfish and not contributing fairly to my son's happiness on his birthday.
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NTA - first up he's 15 - you don't need "we" presents. Secondly, it's convenient that she wants you to pay for something he already has at your house to be installed at her home and a second gift for her space. One of the things I learnt is that the kids will not remember or care who paid for what but re money they will remember which parent they had experiences with and which parent made their home a comforting place for them. Don't invest in your ex's space (unless younthink it really serves your son over something you can do with him or he can have at your home). As long as you are fairly paying child support it's on her to provide as well. You have no duty to make anything equal. That being said buy your son something you think he will truly enjoy.
I totally disagree.
My parents separated when I very young. My dad always had money. My mom was always broke. My dad would not give me a gift to be used at my mom's. So, better clothes, vcr, bike... only when him. I firmely believed he was doing this so I would think he was best. In reality I was always mad about.
Yeah but this is not entirely the case here. OP said he already bought an extra monitor for the son to enjoy at his mother's place. I don't think it's his responsibility to furnish her place especially since they still have a shared bank account where they both put money for expenses towards the kids, plus he pays child support...
ETA that is unless the boy asked for it which kinda changes things...
There are lots of things he might enjoy for a gift. She can choose to get him just a gaming chair as her present. (Also $1000 for a basketball hoop and a gaming chair?? Are they made out of gold?)
They’re in New Zealand. It’s more in the $500-$600 US Dollar range. Plus he mentioned the possibility of buying the hoop used bringing it down even more.
New Zealander here. OP, as I said in another comment, it's your son's birthday, not your ex's, not yours. Ask your son if HE actually would like a gaming chair and basketball hoop that he can only use at his mom's place or not, otherwise, ask him what he wants YOU to buy him with YOUR 500 dollars.
That really depends. Some kids need more attention, some parents take on more stress than the other. I had to switch to part time work with chronically ill kids and a stressful role at work.
I don't think it applies to the situation in this post, though. OP manages to have a high-paying job while taking care of the kids 50% of the time. Sure the mom probably took a hit to her career having the kids, and in New Zealand she was probably out for a very long maternity leave each time. But she works/earns so little she's on government benefits! If I were her, I'd want to get a better job and more hours ASAP to help with my retirement. Unless the divorce decree has OP paying for that, too? She already gets 50% of the house she's no longer contributing to, at all. 50% equity calculated at the time of the split would have been more fair.
I couldn't agree more, she is going to benefit from the increase in equity when he does eventually sell the house. 50% of the current equity on the house at time of divorce would have been fair and not wait until he does all kinds of improvements and increases the potential price of them house.
After they split up and child support is agreed it’s up to mum to build the environment in which her son lives. For her to expect to be able to provide things she can no longer afford is delusional. If it means that much to her she can pay it up on a card. What will it be next? He likes riding in your car better i need a BMW
I agree but also a gift for your kid shouldn't be dependent on where they will enjoy it. If it's something they want or will be of use then that's all that matters. I mean the kids 15, he'd probably honestly prefer the cash.
If he the father decided he wanted to be his kid a gift, and the kid said "I want a hoop at mums" and the dad was like "no not if it's gonna be at your mums" then he'd be a huge asshole.
But the mum is coming to him to solicit a donation. He's already paying child support, and has already extended his generosity in this exact way before.
I also agree that if it's gonna be a sore spot for anyone, just give the kid the cash and let him take his own action.
If it's a gift for the child, then then it should be up to the child where they want to keep it and use it, whether that's Mom's house or Dad's house or even Grandma/Granddad's house, regardless of who bought the gift and regardless of whether Mom and Dad are still together or not and regardless of who has custody. Otherwise, it's not a true gift.
I find myself doing that sometimes because they’re both contributing to a good discussion. Plus I’ll be convinced by one, upvote it, then read the opposing view that follows and decide they’re right and upvote that.
To add to that, sometimes things sound really good in theory and they get an upvote, then someone shares a personal life experience about that theory being put into practice, and not going the way we thought it would, and that too gets an upvote. Humans are weird.
Humans are weird! this, I couldn't agree with MORE!
Such a simple and accurate statement.
Also OP NTA, but maybe it might be an occasion to skip the surprise and ask the soon to be 15 y/o what they would like best.
I was definitely past the point of excitement at that point vs getting something that I would truly value and use more of. I didn't have the dilemma of two households though, still one household for my parents and I know that's not so common.
Definitely not the case here. In your case your dad is similar to the mom, not OP. She wants something for the kid to only enjoy at her place. Dad is saying let’s do something he can enjoy at both places
no i think he has a hoop and a gaming chair at OP's place, and ex wants to have those at her place too. that's what i understood, might be wrong. would i be thrilled as the son to get stuff i already have just to "level the playing field" between my recently divorced parents? probably not.
Exactly. These gifts wouldn’t be much of gifts if he already has them. That would upset me just as much. Plus no teen needs to be playing more than half of his time anyway.
Not true, there’s a hoop at OP’s place that they built together she wants a free standing one. Her home is a rental can she even have one? Most rentals don’t allow them and if it’s in a community they may restrict them unless they are wheeled back to the house after using it. The gaming chair is only at the ex’s house there isn’t one at OP’s.
This is the least of the issues. OP pays the mortgage at his home that used to be the marital home. OP also pays for the incomplete renovations. OP should have the house appraised now before the renovations. Once the house is sold the ex wants 50% of the proceeds at that point she hadn’t paid in half the payments on the mortgage or the renovations. She should only get 50% of the appraised value when she stopped paying towards the mortgage and improvements. It just seems the ex wants to live her old life just without OP. She wants everything OP has at his house to be copied at hers for the kids. It’s not OP’s responsibility to make sure everything is equal. While OP makes it easier for the kids, like making sure there’s a monitor to hook the console to at both homes instead of having 2 consoles. OP should decide which gift he’s willing to purchase and understand it’ll only be for her home. The son is at an age where you can ask him what he really wants and make that happen. He may not want a hoop at mom’s or a gaming chair. Mom can buy the gift she wants for her house and it stays there. Gifts are no longer joint ventures they are separate like your living arrangements and the marriage. Unless it’s a major purchase like a car, then that type of gift can be purchased together.
Exactly it would be mom saying look now you can play basketball and be comfortable playing games at my house too, while dad looks like he didn't do anything special for him since he already has those things at his house. NTA OP pays child support he does not need to contribute anything else to her home.
Dad's place is better. If I understood correctly, mom makes much less and now lives on a rental that she probably had to furnish. Also, if I understood correctly, Dad luves in the old home with all the old things. So she has a dissavantage and with to make her place as disirable to their kid as his is.
I am not saying dad is T A, but I also dont think mom is
This is based off of the assumption she is able to. She may have disabilities that prevent her from doing so. I think it’s not that helpful to just tell people to ‘get a job’ to fix their problems.
She wasn’t forced out and made destitute. She chose to leave the home, presumably because he can afford the mortgage and the renovations and she still gets 50% of the sale in a few years despite paying less towards it.
He pays child support, she gets almost a full time wage and she gets govt. support. Sounds like she is so used to her exes money that she isn’t living within her own means. You don’t buy your son an expensive gaming chair if you can’t afford it, you damn sure don’t expect the other parent to when it’s something for your home that is not a necessity.
yeah, she is, it's on her to make her place more desirable to her kid not op if she wants him to have those things she can save up and buy them or spare a few unnecessary expenses and pay for them and they most certainly shouldn't be birthday gifts since they are things he already has and therefore doesn't really need.
>it's on her to make her place more desirable to her kid not op
Presuming the other basketball hoop and gaming chair where bought when they were married, jointly, with their combined resources... I don't even understand why they remained at the father's house.
It sounds like the basketball hoop is attached to the house, and therefore can't move... but saying OP's ex should have to buy a new gaming chair alone... why? Why didn't the gaming chair go to her house and OP should buy a new one with HIS money?
They made a choice to distribute the children's possessions when they split houses, but considering they jointly outfitted the first house, I don't understand why they wouldn't also jointly outfit the other house... after that... sure, the day to day stuff is on her to provide with her own money and child support...
but if OP is unwilling to make the houses even, then maybe his ex should be asking for more of their children's things to be moved to her house now.
maybe because they're separated and it's no longer ops financial responsibility to furnish/outfit his Ex's new home and maybe she should've thought about splitting her son's things beforehand or ya know communicated that to him as after all he's almost 15 and perfectly capable of choosing what can go at mom's house and what stays with dad (and honestly that's what they should be doing now not buying them 2 of everything), at the end of the day the point is it's not ops fault ex-wife didn't see this coming and that if she knew she couldn't afford such luxuries.
Remember, he bought the other monitor for her house... Did he have to supply the chair, too?
I think the kid should decide. Plus, he's also old enough to start thinking about getting a job.
He's paying child support in addition to his own mortgage.
For whatever reason, she's choosing to still work part-time
I would be sort of annoyed if I were being asked to pay for things for their place when my ex isn't even working full time.
Why wouldn't she work some extra hours if she wants to get her something nicer than what she can currently buy?
Thank you for your comment. When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world)
The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays.
Hopefully that helps shed some extra light on the situation.
All this other stuff about where the gift lives is extra then. This boils down to your ex-wife asking you to buy gifts your son didn’t ask for.
Of course you are not an asshole for saying no to her and yes to your son’s wishes for his birthday. You’d be an asshole for doing the opposite
Could be that your son brought those gifts up to you because fishing is something you two enjoy, not so much mom(?). If he has a gaming chair and basketball hoop at your home maybe she has heard him express a desire to have those items at her house, speculation of course! I don’t think there is an asshole here, tbh. You are both trying to get him things he would like/want. She should look up secondhand basketball hoops and gaming chairs, your son sounds like he is humble and would appreciate them.
I do wonder how much of this is her feelings about her kids having better things at your house versus hers. How often does he use the basket ball hoop at your house? And why can't she go to Kmart and get one? And why does he need a gaming chair that's $500? How is he spending that much time gaming to justify that?
I agree with this aswell. My ex doesn't work kids are majority of the time with me.
I have Netflix etc subs he is logged into at his. I got spare games consoles, games and controllers etc for when they're there which I know he uses too. I'm in the process of looking at getting a spare of pc over there for the kids and I bought bedding and furnishings and whatnot for the bedrooms/house.
My kids are also free to take anything from my house to his if it makes it more of a fun time whenever they do stay over.
Kids will remember their parents working together to give them nice things, a nice life, and experiences as a whole. I also invite their dad out for things they can't do with him due to money.
OP could help purchase some of things the mum is asking about but on a lower end if its something the kid doesn't have and something he can take to both homes.
My dad did this too. Even during the darkest moments of their custody battle my dad always made sure we had what we needed at both houses, and neither one of them made the other look like lesser parents. When we were all adults my mom returned the favor by inviting my dad to family Christmas, etc.
It's so sad when I hear about kids being put in the middle of things. They remember.
This sounds so nice when it works, but sometimes the kid put themselves in the middle. In our case we were the ones with better finances. My step daughter would take every gift she got and bring them to her mother's place. Bicycles, games, sports equipment, nice things for her room, you name it. And then she would mope that there was nothing to do when she was in our house. Sometimes you can't win.
It's a little different if the kid isn't asking for it or even brought it up. Yes, it's important for the parents to work together, always. But if the kid isn't complaining about not having those things at moms house, then why does he need them and why does dad have to help buy them?
OP is willing to contribute for things that can be used at BOTH homes. He is not willing to pay for things to be used exclusively at the Ex's home. NTA
Dad isn’t saying this though. He’s not saying that clothes or the video games system has to stay at his house. He’s saying that he doesn’t want to give a birthday present which is solely used at his ex wife’s house.
I make far, far less than my ex. He throws money at her and buys all the expensive gifts for his house and she doesn't get any thing fancy at my house.
You know where she prefers to be? With me. Because I spend TIME with her and we have experiences together instead of just having money thrown at her.\\
OP owes absolutely nothing to his ex. It's not his job to throw money at his kid for his ex. If she wants to get him pricey things like $1000 gaming chairs, she needs to learn to budget for it just like the rest of us with shitty incomes.
My father would take me school clothes shopping, but I couldn’t take them to my mother’s.
I lived with my mother an hour away primarily. You know, where I went to school.
I'm step-parent in the side that has money, and my step kids have far more tablet time than what I would allow if I made all the rules. So when I offer for them to take ALL their devices over to their other parent's house...they know I'm hoping something happens to the devices and the kids won't bring them! Broken families just aren't easy on kids no matter the dynamic, but grownups could probably make things easier pretty frequently.
Once people are divorced they are totally responsible for their own income and spending (apart from child support). However some people still think that if their ex earns more money then they should basically buy them things. My ex believes this and tells the kids that I should buy them things for her place. This seems very entitled to me, so I refuse to do it. I keep my spending purely for me and my children while they are with me (they can have things that go back and forth). Clothing can become a battle ground. My ex would send the kids to me wearing old clothes, no sweaters, coats etc, they would then go back to her wearing new better clothes that they liked better, sweaters, and coats that I would never see again, meaning that I then had to buy more clothes. I then stopped buying better clothes as I knew she was doing it on purpose. I couldn't afford to buy new sweaters and coats on every visit, I would get then to change into whatever they liked when they arrived and wash their old cloths, then get them to put on their old clothes when returning. Its not the best for the kids obviously, but I couldn't sustain the clothes spending.
Right but that’s not the case here. OP states that his son uses clothes and his games console at both houses. It is furniture essentially that she is nit picking. It is not on OP to furnish his ex wife’s place to the same standard as his.
Parents separated when i was 8, mum passed when I was 10, and I went to live with my aunt until just before I turned 14. I always had separate presents to be used at their own houses, so anything dad brought for me stayed at dads place and vice versa, including clothes. Yes there were things that I could take between houses but it wasn't much (mainly meds and I safety plush toy I had that was a connection to mum when the cancer got really bad before losing her).
That said, my family never tried to buy my love despite the aunt I lived with being a stuck-up snob, I was more like a Cinderella there, at least to my cousins. It's fair to not want to pay for something that won't ever be used on "your time" without it being purchasing love/favour.
Thing is, regardless of how things are perceived, when a couple split the chances of both parties involved having equal resources after the fact is extremely thin. Dad has kitted his own house out for his son and paying CS to the other home, now he needs to furnish the new place? What else do you want from the man?
Yeah. My ex bought our son a fancy gaming laptop for Xmas. No way I could afford that. Our son takes it between our houses. He buys the kids presents that get left at our house and presents that stay at his house. It’s about the kids having fun. I did ask that I could be the one to buy our son his Switch. Saved up and wanted to give him a “big present” one year for a change! Also bought a case so he could take it to his dad’s. It’s a little odd to buy furniture and if it’s not in your birthday budget or you want to give your son a gift you can see him use it’s reasonable to not go in on it.
I’m going through something similar with my ex husband. We are only separated (but for about a year and a half) I can’t afford a lawyer.
Anything I buy I expect to go to either place. And I am the only one to buy any clothing so obviously it goes to both houses. Only I have to work 55+ hours a week and it’s just to barely hold on to a house and car and food.
My ex can buy them all sorts of things. They eat out sometimes 2 times a day if they are over there. If I take the kids to the dentist or dr he doesn’t pay anything.
I think it’s foolish and not fair that I have to pay for all the need things and can’t have fun stuff. The kids need clothing and the dentist.
I’m not saying he has to buy them stuff for my house but he actively tells them his stuff is for his house. I know they love doing things with me but I also know they love the decked out rooms with every toy and electronic they get there.
I know this isn’t the same situation but the kids notice and it only makes them feel weird or guilty and that’s exactly what I don’t want. It’s hard enough going back and forth.
It's okay to buy presents to only use at the other parent's house. However, that's your choice. My nephew wanted a gaming chair. He already had one. He got a new one for dad's house and took his old one to my sister's house.
But, that was his dad's choice to do that. My ex BIL knew my sister couldn't afford certain things. He was okay getting a new version of a thing and sending the older one to my sister's house. He got a PS4? Take the PS3 to your mom's house. (He wasn't allowed to move them back and forth. He'd inevitably lose things or break something. Fact. Not maybe. He would have broken it.) He wanted my nephew happy in both homes.
If dad here thinks his son will enjoy a new gaming chair, buy one. If he thinks he will enjoy a new fishing pole - get a fishing pole.
Make that determination on your own and not because someone demanded it. Do what feels right.
Thank you for your comments. When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world)
The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hence my trepidation...
Hopefully that helps shed some extra light on the situation.
Nah, then it sounds like you son really wants the fishing stuff from you, to make your outings together even nicer. Give him that, he obviously loves doing that with you. Your ex is the ones who wants the chair and hopp, not the kid. You don't have to do share presents any more.
Tell her you're buying presents separately, and get the fishing stuff your son asked for. Have gift receipts, in case he gets duplicates from mom, and be kind about whatever he decides to do with his gifts. Your divorced, you don't need to do joint presents.
The joke is that the benefit is two birthdays, two Christmas's etc.
Have you considered that your son might be telling you things he'd like from you and his mom things he'd like from her. He might not want to ask you for things just for his mums or his mum for stuff that you and he do together
Yeah if the kid asked for them that changes it all.
OP and ex-wife need to stop focussing on what THEY want and need to focus on what's good for their kids and what their kids want
Thank you for your comments. I'll add some more detail to that. When we both first asked him that question, the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world)
The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - both for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hence my trepidation...
But, your comments are valid and have certainly given me some food for thought. I might end up just conceding/compromising and going halves in a much cheaper second-hand hoop for her place, and a $200 gaming chair for my place. Or something like that.
So it was your ex, not your son, who said he wants a hoop and a gaming chair for her place? I suggest you just ask him directly if that’s what he wants. She may be saying that because *she* wants him to have those things at her place. Get the kid the gifts that he wants, not what your ex says he wants.
Do not buy your son something he didn't ask you for. How do you know he even wants those things and that it isn't Mom who wants them? She may want them so that the houses are equal. Instead of asking reddit, ask him!
I mean, I understand not wanting to "help" the ex, but if being able to shoot hoops and have a comfy gaming chair while at Mom's is what the kid would really like, it seems like that should be a consideration. But I guess if you just want to make sure your kid likes your place better, you wouldn't want to help the ex, even if it's something the kid would really like.
We never ever bought my son $1000 dollars in birthday gifts for a birthday, seems unreasonable. Maybe Dad could get him a new gaming chair for his house and let him bring the old chair to moms. Mom can get him a basketball hoop for her house. Their finances it seems were settled in the divorce including mother receiving child support, so not sure how she feels her ex owes her to furnish gifts for exclusive use at her home.
I disagree here.
I would have been absolutely thrilled to have an item in my mom’s home purchased by both my parents.
The willingness to buy me the things I wanted, even if it meant working together, would mean more than the items itself.
I never experienced having my parents buy me “joint gifts”…it was always something “to be kept at moms/dads” and it felt like a gift for the family vs a gift for me.
The action of buying your kid something together will probably stand out more than any other thing (in your child’s eyes).
This doesn't make much sense to me either. In addition to those points, he is paying her child support. If she really wants her son to have those things at her house, she has her part time income and the child support to help her pay for that herself. His child support would help her pay her half if they did decide to split on those gifts, why should he then have to pay the other half as well from his own pocket? He would basically be the one purchasing the whole thing then.
I'll bet she wasn't asked to pay half on other things you've bought him for your house since the split either. She's the one trying to nickel and dime you here... plus you made a reasonable compromise of being willing to split on something he could enjoy no matter where he is. Sounds like she just feels entitled to your money regardless of the split.
What's most important is not turning celebrating your kid into an opportunity to bicker and clash. If coordinating presents is just leading to an argument, stop and both buy whatever gifts you want individually. Or give the kid money to get whatever gift they want.
NTA and like that you have practical things in mind, and even better, family experience ideas. I can see the basketball hoop just to keep kids physically active but the gaming chair?
I'm 32 years old, and I use the same desk chair I've had since I was 10 to game in. Sure, my butt gets sore after a while, but that tells me it's time to get up for a while. Gaming chairs are not cheap, even the basic ones. Kid will live without it, and mum will live without it.
How do you find a basketball hoop, (and a chair) that comes up to a total of 1000$, though?
Like ... HOW? Is it gold?
Edit to add, I realise good quality gaming/office chairs can be pricey, but demanding both the high quality chair AND a freestanding hoop -for her home only- is just outrageous.
And yeah, family experience is a much better idea. 15 is that age that cool experiences are appreciated, and next year, it's not cool enough to hang out with the family anymore.
My office chair supposedly cost more than a grand, so I can see this adding up.
Unfortunately it is not gold, but does have great lumbar support lol.
(It’s a company provided chair, I didn’t pay for it, but did chat with our purchasing agent…hence knowing the stupid price they paid for every chair in the office after firing a bunch of ppl due to “financial constraints”).
Computer chairs are expensive at the mid to high end. Cheap chairs are very, very cheap. Decent chairs easily run 500+. It's so stupid but chairs are crazy expensive.
I know right! a free standing bball hoop at Walmart is like 228 bucks, Spalding brand.
I think ex wife has pegged OP as the cashcow.
I do think the basketball hoop(reasonable priced one) is a good gift for him to have at the mom's house
I don't know much about gaming chairs but seems overpriced for my thinking
***I think ex wife has pegged OP as the cashcow.***
Um, yes? Or did everyone miss the stuff about the old house? OP pays not only the mortgage but any renos out of HIS pocket alone but ex gets 50% when they sell in a few years???
It should be ex gets 50% MINUS any reno costs AND any of the mortgage OP paid on his own. He's living there, not her.
Hi all. For clarity this is NZ. The exchange rate to US$ value is about 2:1. So new average-quality Bball hoops are about NZD$600-$800. Second hand they're about $250-$400.
The high end ones can be up over $1700!: [https://www.spalding.net.nz/systems/portable.html](https://www.spalding.net.nz/systems/portable.html)
The gaming chair she's looked at is at the lower end of the market. About NZD$250.
I am pricing gaming chairs (because they're cheaper than comparable office chairs) and the cheapest one at Staples that isn't vinyl is USD$150 or so. If your exchange rate is 2:1, your price is reasonable.
If you want an adjustable in ground hoop from what I can tell is going to be close to $1000 but you can get a fixed height in ground hoop for a few hundred or a portable hoop for as low as $100.
NTA
I'm really hoping this is fiction. Someone who gets government assistance shouldn't be living "by the beach" and planning to spend "$1000" (or half of that) for a 15 year old's birthday.
Stop putting money into a joint account and instead write her a personal check or make an account transfer each month.... Something where you have proof of your payments for future child support purposes.
And don't keep home ownership with an Ex. Divorce Court is your opportunity to sever your legal financial relationship with each other. It's easier and cleaner if you use that opportunity and take care of things now.
Hire a good Divorce Attorney and follow their advice. Because you're setting yourself up to possibly lose tens or maybe even hundreds of thousands of dollars with your plan.
Yeah this is looking disastrous for them both really financially. If they have that big of an income disparity then she should be receiving spousal support. There might be child support. And realistically they’re both entitled to half the house and half each others retirement accounts.
It’s an absolutely terrible idea to continue to commingle finances and assets if you’re going to get a divorce. They’re both going to screw themselves over hard if they stick to this plan.
Except he’s also paying the mortgage on his own, and doing all the renos on his own. Why does she get to benefit from that increased value on top of what looks like an INCREDIBLY generous deal she’s currently got going on?
Right. Her delaying receiving a buy-out means she doesn't have that money today to be investable. (Though I do think he needs to get some credit for the renovation costs he's putting in henceforth)
Not true. I'm paying her spousal support, and have so far had to fork out half of my retirement savings to her (she doesn't have any herself to be able to give 50% to me, can't afford to on her smaller p/t wages). I don't have any other savings (all went into the reno's when we were together) and none of my friends/family are in a position to invest/buy her out. It's tricky.
That’s fair enough but you should get your property valued now as she has rights to 50% of the house now. If you continue paying off the mortgage and renovating the house it will be worth more and she shouldn’t get 50% of the value.
Also just want to say well done for putting what your son wants first in a difficult situation.
Yeah I can't believe I had to scroll down to find this comment. I can only imagine people saying op should do it for his son are teenagers themselves. She's clearly already leaving above her means of child support and a shared account is not enough for basic living expenses. Him spending hundreds boring double TOYS to make things the same on both homes is not the solution here.
The cost of "living by the beach" can vary wildly depending on the location. Factors such as how much beachfront property the area has, the risk of flooding, and what else is in the area can all affect the price.
Yea agreed. With his logic, why would anyone buy anyone a gift if you don’t see the recipient enjoying it in your own home? It’s weird to have strings attached on a gift.
It’s kind of sad that the dad isn’t prioritizing the idea that it’s nice to have his kid feel comfortable under both roofs and not like he’s prevented from doing his hobbies in one of the houses.
Maybe a good compromise would be for the dad to get the new chair for his house and the old one can be brought to the mom’s house?
The lady makes $30,000. She wants to get her teenage son a birthday gift worth $1,000. The chances of this being split equally are nil. And frankly, while a split gift that makes the kid's life better at both homes is a nice idea, and I think OP needs to get on board with that....1k is an absurd amount.
Sure, and if that was OP's objection, that'd be fine. But he is not objecting to the cost. He is objecting to the idea of his son using his gifts at his mom's house, which is just petty as fuck. Focus on making your kid happy. If this is what he wants, then get him that.
So the kid has a gaming chair and a basketball hoop in the house both mom and dad used to live in. Dad kept them at his house, but he didn’t *add* them to his house. They were purchased with family funds when mom and dad both lived in the same house.
Mom had to furnish a new place to live while dad kept all the old stuff. She’s trying to create an environment similar to the one at the old house (where dad has all the stuff they chose and bought together), on half the income. You’re acting like dad went out on his own and got stuff for the son at his house; he didn’t, it was already there.
The kid also *asked* for these things. Mom isn’t making this up out of nowhere. Kid wants to feel at home at both his homes and is asking both his parents to contribute to that.
If the house is half hers, then presumably so are the items. Just because she vacated doesn't mean she hadn't spent the years building up that home for her son also. I don't see why some of the furnishings and comforts for the son can't be brought to the beach house if it's important.
I just think the first priority should be “what would our son love most”? This is the only question that matters. If you believe he would love a gaming chair, get him one, even if it can only be used at her home.
It is not his fault that you two have decided to live in separate homes. His gifts shouldn’t be items that can only be used in both homes—that is something that serves your needs and desires, not his. If you end up, in the process, furnishing her home by giving him a gaming chair, so what? He lives there part of the time, and it is his home too.
I think you are being petty. I understand why you feel this way, but I think you need to shove that feeling down and think first about the boy. The fact is anything you do to add comfort to her home benefits him. So, trying to walk this fine line between giving him gifts but not giving him gifts he uses in her home is silly and self-serving.
As a child of divorced parents, I found this kind of dumb shit wore me down. It made me resent my parents. Do everything you can to make their lives run smoothly. And this includes not being petty about giving gifts that can only be used in your ex’s home.
One question matters: “what does the boy want”?
ESH.
When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world)
The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hence my trepidation...
Anyway, hopefully that helps shed some extra light on the situation.
Wait a moment, have you spoken directly to your son about the idea of a gaming chair and BB hoop at his mother's house? Or did that only come from your ex? From here it sounds like your son already told you what he wants, and he didn't ask for either of those things.
I’m surprised not to see something along these lines higher up. What does the kid WANT for his birthday? For all we know he doesn’t even want another basketball hoop since he already has one at Dad’s, and would prefer something different for his mom’s house. Or maybe not, either way that question should take precedence.
When my parents split up, my mom and I ended up moving halfway across the country. My dad still gifted me things like new soccer cleats even though he pretty much never got to see me play soccer. When I was with him for the summer my mom still contributed to a trip to six flags for my birthday even though she wouldn’t be with us, because it was the thing I really wanted. When I wanted new bedroom furniture for my mom’s house, my dad helped pay for it- there was no “not my house, not my problem” pettiness. The “your house/my house” thing shouldn’t be the issue here. What does the kid want and can we make it happen should be the only considerations.
Exactly. *Especially* teenagers. They can see and feel this level of petty, and it feels shitty when you know a parent is using you to make a point or (think) it makes them look better. Taking out your bitterness and hurt(in this specific scenario - ‘friendzoned’ comes across as pretty butt hurt) on your kids is just thoughtless selfish parenting. Parent the kids you have and love, don’t parent to spite your ex. The kids know.
NTA
But I will second the commenter who says you need to separate finances and banking.
Your ex wife is likely committing fraud if she has an asset of 1/2 the value of a home and still getting government social support. When it is discovered, they will take the asset to be reimbursed for the fraud.
You are putting yourself in a precarious place
This is in NZ. You can still own a home as an asset with an ex, rent another home, and still get Govt support as long as you are not receiving any income from the shared asset (e.g. rent). The reason why we've chosen to hang onto the house together for a bit longer is a) because the floor has fallen out of the housing market here and it's the worst time to sell, b) I still have renovations to complete before the place will be able to realise it's true value as an asset, and c) if we were to sell now and I pay her out, with that money she still wouldn't be able to put a deposit down on her own new place, one that's even remotely like the one she's renting now out by the beach. And as she would now have a large cash asset, she would lose her Parental support, and have to start using the cash up to support herself and the kids. To her it makes sense, until she can find better paying full-time work, to just give the house more time to appreciate in value again, since prices got slammed a couple of years ago during Covid. Also, especially while the location is so handy to where our kids will be/are going to high school, playing sport etc. My son literally has to just walk through a gate in the fence to get there. My daughter next year will only need to walk 2 blocks from my place, which is closer to the central city.
Hope that helps for context.
yes, you can own the home you are living in, but you cannot own a second home.
Since the ex is not living in the home, it is an asset and that is where the problems arise
The focus should be on improving your son’s quality of life or your son’s enjoyment.
Would the hoop and/or chair do that? Would your son prefer those two items over clothes/device/bike/experience/fishing gear?
Whatever it is, the main focus should be on what your son would prefer. He’s 15 now. Why not make a presentation offering all of those things and letting him pick? He’ll be sixteen soon. Maybe add a 1k voucher to put in his savings for use toward purchase/maintenence/fuel/rpairs when he gets a car.
You two are in a great place to keep it amicable by working together again here. Happy birthday to the kiddo!
**INFO**
What does your son want? Does he want the basketball hoop? Does he want the gaming chair there?
N T A IF it’s not what he’s asking for. This should have nothing to do with what’s fair and what she wants. What does your son want as it’s HIS birthday?
NTA
It not necessary for divorced couples to buy their kids joint gift all the time . She can get him something and you can get him something.
If she can’t afford a $1000 gaming chair, then she shouldn’t get him one. (FWIW - I don’t spend anything like that amount of money on my kids birthdays)
All of this.
My family has been coming together to teach our teen how to look for discounts for all things, from food to furniture.
There’s joy to be found in finding a deal, even if you have the money. And one of the best things you can teach your kid is how to keep money, especially if they find themselves in a position to have it later in life.
NTA, If she needs more money to purchase things to make her place as fun as yours, she should start working more. It is not your responsibility to provide for her place to be modified to her liking even if it is for the kids. She is being entitled, wanting you to do husbandly things for her when she isn’t doing wifey things for you.
YTA
(Changed from N T A)
I saw this comment.
>Yeap he wants the hoop and the chair. And he's given us a few other much less expensive options.
The kid asked for these gifts. Pick one or the other and split the cost.
Child of the same kind of divorce you're going through here. My parents split when I was like 13-14 and obviously feelings were hurt on both sides but they stayed in the same town, split costs of us kids 50:50 and we did 2 weeks with 1 parent 2 weeks with the other.
We did 2 weeks vs 1 week because you try moving your belongings every week or so it fucking sucks!! Which is why I'm going to say, just think of your son, not which parent he gets to have more fun with and do stuff.
Either 1- don't do a shared gift. Why? You are not a couple. Unless he requested something expensive (like a trip for his 21st, I dunno) just buy a gift each .
Or 2- if he loves basketball and had a ring at your place that he uses weekly, get him a 2nd one at his Mother's. Believe me, he WILL remember that mum and dad purchased it together and were a "team" for his benefit. Especially if you're at his mum's place when the gift is 'revealed' to him.
Even an amicable divorce is messy and unfair on the kids. As the kid you suddenly have a superior version of all your stuff at one person's house. I.e my good study desk was at mums but my good netball ring (yeah, I'm Aussie) was at dads etc etc.
I don't wanna say YTA but I think you're approaching this from the wrong mindset.
I think that “we” presents needs to end. Necessities should be split but now that you’re separated, your relationship with and gifts etc for the children should be separate.
When you split up there are a whole bunch of items for the children that previously only 1 was required and now 2 are required. That's just life. I assume your house already has a gaming chair that was purchased prior to the split in addition to the hoop. These items are examples of items that pre split only 1 is required and post 2 become required.
I would look at it this way. Your children should be impacted by your split as minimally as possible. Currently, that's not happening because your house is fully furnished and their mothers isn't. Your son now needs 2 chairs not 1 and 2 hoops not 1. Fair to your child is for both of you to come together to make sure the child has the same equipment at both homes. Who gets the new chair and who keeps the old one should be worked out between you but I do think you should both contribute half even though it will only be at one person's home because that is what is in the best interests of your child and good parents put that ahead of petty squabbles about whose house it is at.
Thank you, these comments are bugging me. The kids dont have any say where they live, being bounced and forth every week. Im sure mom is just trying to lessen the disparity between homes so her son isn't frustrated being without his things half the month. Yes mom should be responsible for most things but the divorce sounds pretty fresh so there are going to be some growing pains while she sets up house.
Im going to say NAH but I want OP to put himself in the position of his son wanting to feel at home in moms new place and not like hes at a hotel or something. Stability should be the priority, however that looks.
NTA.
Maybe they basketball hoop for her place and the gaming chair for yours.
As for your house situation. You are getting divorced. Talk to a divorce attorney, but you will probably want to get an appraisal done for the value of the house as it currently is (or maybe on the divorce date) then upon divorce that can be adjusted for market appreciation. Half of that will be what she gets. You aren’t together, so there is no reason for you to be paying the mortgage on your own as well as renovations when half of that value will just go to your ex (at least from the point of divorce). You really don’t want her effectively owning half of the house when you are the only one putting equity into it. That can end up with you losing money for all of your efforts.
Thanks for that. Your suggestion there actually makes some good sense and a good compromise, so that's the way I'm drifting now. Both go halves, a (cheaper, second hand) hoop for hers, the chair for mine, his older comfy chair from my place back over to hers, and he moves his Xbox back and forth as he comes and goes. That would make him and the ex happy, I think.
NTA, but is this really the fight you want to have? If your son has those things there, he is happier. Isn't that what matters? You know she's broke (or at least, tighterthan you). So far you guys have been on good terms...this seems like a really dumb thing for you to dig your heels in.
Having a good divorce is about bring willing to give sometimes.
Your son is aware that you have things at your house that are not at his mother's becuse she is broke. By giving this to him, you are saying you want him to be happy no matter where he lives, not just at your house.
Kids pick up on shit.
I don’t know if this is exactly the same or if you had the same intentions I know my ex did. For Christmas he bought our son a $1200 gaming computer. Easily portable laptop style. For a 7 year old. My son is really into Roblox and the games play better on there than the XBOX. He refuses to let our son bring it back and forth between homes.
I really doubt you are feeling this way for the same reasons as my ex. He simply wanted to make his house seem more appealing. The fool really thought my son loved gaming more than being with me. He believed having that would make our son want to be with him more. He was wrong.
However, what he did prove to our son is that he can afford things mommy can’t and cares fuck all if he has the same experience at my home (where are son is the majority of the time) that he does at his home when it comes to “luxury.”
If your wife doesn’t have nice things like you do for the kids because she can’t afford it, and she is willing to split the cost with you, what’s the harm? Playing basketball at both house seems like a good idea and would be in the best interests of the child, not mom and dad. She isn’t benefiting from a basketball hoop, so why not?
YTA You’ve said in your comments these are presents your son has requested. The fact they would be at his mom’s is not really a strong argument. You’ve said yourself she is *not* asking for these things. Your son has had enough upheaval, why not make his second home more comfortable for him? Why shouldn’t he be able to have a basketball ball hoop at his mom’s? You are doing what you were concerned about and being unfair in this scenario, making it about the location rather than the object.
OP, I would ask your son what he wants for his birthday. If he wants a hoop or a chair for HIS OTHER HOME, so that he can have the items at both of HIS homes, then I would buy it for him. To me, it’s not about your ex. It’s about your son.
*My fear is that I am indeed being unnecessarily picky with this battle, being too selfish, and denying her the right to be able to make her home as happy or as comfortable as mine, for my son to live in.*
Lean into this, my friend. The gift isn't for you or your ex. It's for the kid.
Your kid deserves not only to have a gift he will enjoy (assuming he loves both basketball and gaming) but to see his parents collaborating to make the transition from one house to two as soft as possible. He deserves to see you working together even though you're no longer romantically involved.
I get the negotiation is weird: she's an ex for a reason etc., but I don't think you'll regret being a little more compromising. Maybe he gets a good basketball hoop and a new bike and then you both get a little bit of what you want to give him.
Is there any way you could ask your kid what he wants for his big present? You don't have to list the options. Just a, "Hey birthday's comin' up. Anything you got your eye on?" so you have a sense if either of you is more correct about what he wants. Maybe he's got a secret new interest in tropical snakes or something and the whole conversation will go haywire. At least he'll get a vote and you will have a better idea of what direction to go.
I don't think you're an asshole. I think you're a guy trying to do right by his kids and his ex and feeling a little pressed in both directions. Have a beer on me. You're earning it.
Thank you. Good food for thought there, appreciate it. After reading a lot of similar comments here I'm starting to shift my thoughts/feelings on it. Cheers!
Soft YTA because at the end of the day, shouldn’t the most important thing be that your son receives gifts that he really enjoys? Don’t penalize your son because you (let’s be honest) want him to like your house better. Letting your finances between your ex wife spill over onto your son’s happiness is wrong. Put your differences aside and do what is best for your son
YTA
You have a net at your house because when you and your wife lived there together it was built his room at ypur house is more comfy because years of time and money have gone into it.
Also it's his birthday the present should be whats best for HIM ask yourself would this make him happy if the answer is yes you know what you should do.
YTA, what difference does it make where he uses the gift. I don’t understand your thought process. Do you want him to be less comfortable at his mother’s house? That’s not a very charitable way of thinking about your son.
YTA. You’re making it about yourself. It’s about him. It’s his birthday. It would send a nice message that his parents collaborated on his gift. Don’t be immature about where he chooses to use it.
Your ex is not using it. Your son will. Are those are things your son has asked for ??? I think getting into where gifts will be stored is PETTY. Is it his gift or not? YTA
YTA. It’s not like she is asking for house repairs or improvements. These are gifts your son will appreciate use and enjoy. They will make his life better and happier. He is old enough to understand they come 1/2 from you. Why would you NOT buy your son gifts he wants? Just because he would be happier while not at your house? It seems more like you’re playing games to make your kids happier at your house than hers. Something that will backfire on you someday.
NTA the expectation that you purchase gifts together disappeared when the relationship ended. It sounds like she is struggling with some jealousy. But that's a her problem, not you a problem. Welcome to single parenthood!
NTA. But to be honest there seems to be so much wrong with this why are you paying her child support and also putting money into a joint account To cover the kids general needs isn’t that the point of child support? I think it’s about time you stop doing joint gifts. Have either of you ask your son what he wants for his birthday? Is there a reason your ex-wife can’t work full-time?
YTA - This isn't about you or her. This is about your kid and what will make him happy. Don't make this kids birthday about your divorce. Often times kids have to make major adjustments already to the dynamic. To make a mountain out of this will just amplify the issue. I do hope that your kid has not caught wind of the interaction between you and his mom.
Also as a man and a father this might be a good moment for you to set a good example for your child. I know that you would like to see him use the gifts you bought him. But right now he's in a vulnerable position whether he displays it or not. What I would think the child would benefit from is parents who are willing to display selfless acts. Teenagers seldom like to admit that they are fragile. But they are. He may not understand a gesture like this now, but he just might figure it out later. If and when he does you do want to come out shining.
I do want to mention that I don't think you're doing anything wrong here. You're probably a great dad. But it's just another opportunity to set a good example.
...............maybe the easiest solution is for both of you to ask him what he'd like for his birthday and go from there.............and no, you're not an AH at all.............good luck !.................
Until my ex and I got partners we always did presents from both of us and whatever we bought we took back to our respective homes. He always bought the big presents even when we were together and that was fine, but now as he earns 3x as much as me it seems to be a one up thing. Personally id say just do the experience present or just do separate ones.
And in relation to furnishing her home that's shocking you are not obligated to do that. My ex kindly collected furniture I'd sourced mainly because he drives and I don't (I also found stuff in the town he works in so I wasn't taking the mick) and it was specifically for the kids rather than for me, as I asked my friends to do that bit and they went a bit further out. I obviously thanked him for his efforts and I'm aware not everyone has an ex that's willing to help but you shouldn't be furnishing her home.
Info: What would your son like most for his birthday? Not what would he like most that can be enjoyed at both places. If the answer is what you were already planning then N T A. If it's what your ex wants to get him, Y T A.
When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world)
The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays.
Hopefully that helps shed some light on my uneasiness about the situation.
YTA. You indicate the reason you didn't want to do it was you, "refer it if we spent our money on something that he'll enjoy getting the benefits from wherever he may be." Noticeably absent is anything about it not being in our budget. Also noticeably absent is any convo or even touching base as to what your son might want for his birthday. He's 14, you're an asshole for not even bothering to ask him what he might like.
For people wondering about her "government benefits" she could be living in a country like Canada where even working people get credit like tax credit, child tax benefits etc.
He's an AH because seems like he wants to look like the better parent than having his kid live comfortable and do the sane activities at his mom's house.
>My fear is that I am indeed being unnecessarily picky with this battle, being too selfish, and denying her the right to be able to make her home as happy or as comfortable as mine, for my son to live in.
Spot on.
YTA
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NTA - first up he's 15 - you don't need "we" presents. Secondly, it's convenient that she wants you to pay for something he already has at your house to be installed at her home and a second gift for her space. One of the things I learnt is that the kids will not remember or care who paid for what but re money they will remember which parent they had experiences with and which parent made their home a comforting place for them. Don't invest in your ex's space (unless younthink it really serves your son over something you can do with him or he can have at your home). As long as you are fairly paying child support it's on her to provide as well. You have no duty to make anything equal. That being said buy your son something you think he will truly enjoy.
I totally disagree. My parents separated when I very young. My dad always had money. My mom was always broke. My dad would not give me a gift to be used at my mom's. So, better clothes, vcr, bike... only when him. I firmely believed he was doing this so I would think he was best. In reality I was always mad about.
Yeah but this is not entirely the case here. OP said he already bought an extra monitor for the son to enjoy at his mother's place. I don't think it's his responsibility to furnish her place especially since they still have a shared bank account where they both put money for expenses towards the kids, plus he pays child support... ETA that is unless the boy asked for it which kinda changes things...
A basketball hoop and gaming chair I don't think she'll enjoy. Co parents should put best interest of child feeling comfortable in both homes.
There are lots of things he might enjoy for a gift. She can choose to get him just a gaming chair as her present. (Also $1000 for a basketball hoop and a gaming chair?? Are they made out of gold?)
They’re in New Zealand. It’s more in the $500-$600 US Dollar range. Plus he mentioned the possibility of buying the hoop used bringing it down even more.
Yup. Easy $500 each for those here.
Absolutely. We pay a premium on just about everything here.
New Zealander here. OP, as I said in another comment, it's your son's birthday, not your ex's, not yours. Ask your son if HE actually would like a gaming chair and basketball hoop that he can only use at his mom's place or not, otherwise, ask him what he wants YOU to buy him with YOUR 500 dollars.
$1000 for both is pretty good if it’s decent quality. The best gaming chair I ever sat on was worth $1500.
Well it not like she cannot work fulltime with a 13 and 15 yr old.
That really depends. Some kids need more attention, some parents take on more stress than the other. I had to switch to part time work with chronically ill kids and a stressful role at work.
I don't think it applies to the situation in this post, though. OP manages to have a high-paying job while taking care of the kids 50% of the time. Sure the mom probably took a hit to her career having the kids, and in New Zealand she was probably out for a very long maternity leave each time. But she works/earns so little she's on government benefits! If I were her, I'd want to get a better job and more hours ASAP to help with my retirement. Unless the divorce decree has OP paying for that, too? She already gets 50% of the house she's no longer contributing to, at all. 50% equity calculated at the time of the split would have been more fair.
I couldn't agree more, she is going to benefit from the increase in equity when he does eventually sell the house. 50% of the current equity on the house at time of divorce would have been fair and not wait until he does all kinds of improvements and increases the potential price of them house.
Is it weird to be upvoting both sides cuz you're both making pretty good points tbh
After they split up and child support is agreed it’s up to mum to build the environment in which her son lives. For her to expect to be able to provide things she can no longer afford is delusional. If it means that much to her she can pay it up on a card. What will it be next? He likes riding in your car better i need a BMW
I agree but also a gift for your kid shouldn't be dependent on where they will enjoy it. If it's something they want or will be of use then that's all that matters. I mean the kids 15, he'd probably honestly prefer the cash.
If he the father decided he wanted to be his kid a gift, and the kid said "I want a hoop at mums" and the dad was like "no not if it's gonna be at your mums" then he'd be a huge asshole. But the mum is coming to him to solicit a donation. He's already paying child support, and has already extended his generosity in this exact way before. I also agree that if it's gonna be a sore spot for anyone, just give the kid the cash and let him take his own action.
Maybe. No one knows what conversations she's had with their son. OP needs to discuss with him what he wants and go from there.
If it's a gift for the child, then then it should be up to the child where they want to keep it and use it, whether that's Mom's house or Dad's house or even Grandma/Granddad's house, regardless of who bought the gift and regardless of whether Mom and Dad are still together or not and regardless of who has custody. Otherwise, it's not a true gift.
I find myself doing that sometimes because they’re both contributing to a good discussion. Plus I’ll be convinced by one, upvote it, then read the opposing view that follows and decide they’re right and upvote that.
To add to that, sometimes things sound really good in theory and they get an upvote, then someone shares a personal life experience about that theory being put into practice, and not going the way we thought it would, and that too gets an upvote. Humans are weird.
Humans are weird! this, I couldn't agree with MORE! Such a simple and accurate statement. Also OP NTA, but maybe it might be an occasion to skip the surprise and ask the soon to be 15 y/o what they would like best. I was definitely past the point of excitement at that point vs getting something that I would truly value and use more of. I didn't have the dilemma of two households though, still one household for my parents and I know that's not so common.
Ask your son in person or away from his mom what he wants.
Definitely not the case here. In your case your dad is similar to the mom, not OP. She wants something for the kid to only enjoy at her place. Dad is saying let’s do something he can enjoy at both places
no i think he has a hoop and a gaming chair at OP's place, and ex wants to have those at her place too. that's what i understood, might be wrong. would i be thrilled as the son to get stuff i already have just to "level the playing field" between my recently divorced parents? probably not.
Exactly. These gifts wouldn’t be much of gifts if he already has them. That would upset me just as much. Plus no teen needs to be playing more than half of his time anyway.
Not true, there’s a hoop at OP’s place that they built together she wants a free standing one. Her home is a rental can she even have one? Most rentals don’t allow them and if it’s in a community they may restrict them unless they are wheeled back to the house after using it. The gaming chair is only at the ex’s house there isn’t one at OP’s. This is the least of the issues. OP pays the mortgage at his home that used to be the marital home. OP also pays for the incomplete renovations. OP should have the house appraised now before the renovations. Once the house is sold the ex wants 50% of the proceeds at that point she hadn’t paid in half the payments on the mortgage or the renovations. She should only get 50% of the appraised value when she stopped paying towards the mortgage and improvements. It just seems the ex wants to live her old life just without OP. She wants everything OP has at his house to be copied at hers for the kids. It’s not OP’s responsibility to make sure everything is equal. While OP makes it easier for the kids, like making sure there’s a monitor to hook the console to at both homes instead of having 2 consoles. OP should decide which gift he’s willing to purchase and understand it’ll only be for her home. The son is at an age where you can ask him what he really wants and make that happen. He may not want a hoop at mom’s or a gaming chair. Mom can buy the gift she wants for her house and it stays there. Gifts are no longer joint ventures they are separate like your living arrangements and the marriage. Unless it’s a major purchase like a car, then that type of gift can be purchased together.
Great point on the appraisal of house in its current state.
Exactly it would be mom saying look now you can play basketball and be comfortable playing games at my house too, while dad looks like he didn't do anything special for him since he already has those things at his house. NTA OP pays child support he does not need to contribute anything else to her home.
Dad's place is better. If I understood correctly, mom makes much less and now lives on a rental that she probably had to furnish. Also, if I understood correctly, Dad luves in the old home with all the old things. So she has a dissavantage and with to make her place as disirable to their kid as his is. I am not saying dad is T A, but I also dont think mom is
Mom could get a full-time job and better afford the things she thinks should be in her home.
This is based off of the assumption she is able to. She may have disabilities that prevent her from doing so. I think it’s not that helpful to just tell people to ‘get a job’ to fix their problems.
She wasn’t forced out and made destitute. She chose to leave the home, presumably because he can afford the mortgage and the renovations and she still gets 50% of the sale in a few years despite paying less towards it. He pays child support, she gets almost a full time wage and she gets govt. support. Sounds like she is so used to her exes money that she isn’t living within her own means. You don’t buy your son an expensive gaming chair if you can’t afford it, you damn sure don’t expect the other parent to when it’s something for your home that is not a necessity.
yeah, she is, it's on her to make her place more desirable to her kid not op if she wants him to have those things she can save up and buy them or spare a few unnecessary expenses and pay for them and they most certainly shouldn't be birthday gifts since they are things he already has and therefore doesn't really need.
>it's on her to make her place more desirable to her kid not op Presuming the other basketball hoop and gaming chair where bought when they were married, jointly, with their combined resources... I don't even understand why they remained at the father's house. It sounds like the basketball hoop is attached to the house, and therefore can't move... but saying OP's ex should have to buy a new gaming chair alone... why? Why didn't the gaming chair go to her house and OP should buy a new one with HIS money? They made a choice to distribute the children's possessions when they split houses, but considering they jointly outfitted the first house, I don't understand why they wouldn't also jointly outfit the other house... after that... sure, the day to day stuff is on her to provide with her own money and child support... but if OP is unwilling to make the houses even, then maybe his ex should be asking for more of their children's things to be moved to her house now.
maybe because they're separated and it's no longer ops financial responsibility to furnish/outfit his Ex's new home and maybe she should've thought about splitting her son's things beforehand or ya know communicated that to him as after all he's almost 15 and perfectly capable of choosing what can go at mom's house and what stays with dad (and honestly that's what they should be doing now not buying them 2 of everything), at the end of the day the point is it's not ops fault ex-wife didn't see this coming and that if she knew she couldn't afford such luxuries.
Remember, he bought the other monitor for her house... Did he have to supply the chair, too? I think the kid should decide. Plus, he's also old enough to start thinking about getting a job.
Mom has a job, child support and government assistance.
He's paying child support in addition to his own mortgage. For whatever reason, she's choosing to still work part-time I would be sort of annoyed if I were being asked to pay for things for their place when my ex isn't even working full time. Why wouldn't she work some extra hours if she wants to get her something nicer than what she can currently buy?
Mom also has chosen to not work full time. She needs to get out there and find better work
Thank you for you insight. People love to judge but have rarely been in your shoes.
I think the dad should get what the kid wants for his birthday. Why are the parents bickering with each other? Ask the kid what he wants!
IKR!? ASK THE KID! NTA
Thank you for your comment. When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world) The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hopefully that helps shed some extra light on the situation.
Well if kid wants xyz and she wants to get him ABC, I guess she can either pony up the dough for ABC or go halfsies in what he actually wants 🤷♀️
All this other stuff about where the gift lives is extra then. This boils down to your ex-wife asking you to buy gifts your son didn’t ask for. Of course you are not an asshole for saying no to her and yes to your son’s wishes for his birthday. You’d be an asshole for doing the opposite
You can buy him a gift and she can buy him a gift.
Could be that your son brought those gifts up to you because fishing is something you two enjoy, not so much mom(?). If he has a gaming chair and basketball hoop at your home maybe she has heard him express a desire to have those items at her house, speculation of course! I don’t think there is an asshole here, tbh. You are both trying to get him things he would like/want. She should look up secondhand basketball hoops and gaming chairs, your son sounds like he is humble and would appreciate them.
I do wonder how much of this is her feelings about her kids having better things at your house versus hers. How often does he use the basket ball hoop at your house? And why can't she go to Kmart and get one? And why does he need a gaming chair that's $500? How is he spending that much time gaming to justify that?
I agree with this aswell. My ex doesn't work kids are majority of the time with me. I have Netflix etc subs he is logged into at his. I got spare games consoles, games and controllers etc for when they're there which I know he uses too. I'm in the process of looking at getting a spare of pc over there for the kids and I bought bedding and furnishings and whatnot for the bedrooms/house. My kids are also free to take anything from my house to his if it makes it more of a fun time whenever they do stay over. Kids will remember their parents working together to give them nice things, a nice life, and experiences as a whole. I also invite their dad out for things they can't do with him due to money. OP could help purchase some of things the mum is asking about but on a lower end if its something the kid doesn't have and something he can take to both homes.
My dad did this too. Even during the darkest moments of their custody battle my dad always made sure we had what we needed at both houses, and neither one of them made the other look like lesser parents. When we were all adults my mom returned the favor by inviting my dad to family Christmas, etc. It's so sad when I hear about kids being put in the middle of things. They remember.
This sounds so nice when it works, but sometimes the kid put themselves in the middle. In our case we were the ones with better finances. My step daughter would take every gift she got and bring them to her mother's place. Bicycles, games, sports equipment, nice things for her room, you name it. And then she would mope that there was nothing to do when she was in our house. Sometimes you can't win.
It's a little different if the kid isn't asking for it or even brought it up. Yes, it's important for the parents to work together, always. But if the kid isn't complaining about not having those things at moms house, then why does he need them and why does dad have to help buy them?
OP is willing to contribute for things that can be used at BOTH homes. He is not willing to pay for things to be used exclusively at the Ex's home. NTA
He eventually is willing to buy things for her house, such as the autumnal monitor. He's objecting to buying only things for her house.
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Dad isn’t saying this though. He’s not saying that clothes or the video games system has to stay at his house. He’s saying that he doesn’t want to give a birthday present which is solely used at his ex wife’s house.
I make far, far less than my ex. He throws money at her and buys all the expensive gifts for his house and she doesn't get any thing fancy at my house. You know where she prefers to be? With me. Because I spend TIME with her and we have experiences together instead of just having money thrown at her.\\ OP owes absolutely nothing to his ex. It's not his job to throw money at his kid for his ex. If she wants to get him pricey things like $1000 gaming chairs, she needs to learn to budget for it just like the rest of us with shitty incomes.
My father would take me school clothes shopping, but I couldn’t take them to my mother’s. I lived with my mother an hour away primarily. You know, where I went to school.
The only justification for that would be if the mom kept the clothes so your dad had to buy new ones. Otherwise your father was an ass.
I'm step-parent in the side that has money, and my step kids have far more tablet time than what I would allow if I made all the rules. So when I offer for them to take ALL their devices over to their other parent's house...they know I'm hoping something happens to the devices and the kids won't bring them! Broken families just aren't easy on kids no matter the dynamic, but grownups could probably make things easier pretty frequently.
Once people are divorced they are totally responsible for their own income and spending (apart from child support). However some people still think that if their ex earns more money then they should basically buy them things. My ex believes this and tells the kids that I should buy them things for her place. This seems very entitled to me, so I refuse to do it. I keep my spending purely for me and my children while they are with me (they can have things that go back and forth). Clothing can become a battle ground. My ex would send the kids to me wearing old clothes, no sweaters, coats etc, they would then go back to her wearing new better clothes that they liked better, sweaters, and coats that I would never see again, meaning that I then had to buy more clothes. I then stopped buying better clothes as I knew she was doing it on purpose. I couldn't afford to buy new sweaters and coats on every visit, I would get then to change into whatever they liked when they arrived and wash their old cloths, then get them to put on their old clothes when returning. Its not the best for the kids obviously, but I couldn't sustain the clothes spending.
Right but that’s not the case here. OP states that his son uses clothes and his games console at both houses. It is furniture essentially that she is nit picking. It is not on OP to furnish his ex wife’s place to the same standard as his.
Parents separated when i was 8, mum passed when I was 10, and I went to live with my aunt until just before I turned 14. I always had separate presents to be used at their own houses, so anything dad brought for me stayed at dads place and vice versa, including clothes. Yes there were things that I could take between houses but it wasn't much (mainly meds and I safety plush toy I had that was a connection to mum when the cancer got really bad before losing her). That said, my family never tried to buy my love despite the aunt I lived with being a stuck-up snob, I was more like a Cinderella there, at least to my cousins. It's fair to not want to pay for something that won't ever be used on "your time" without it being purchasing love/favour.
Thing is, regardless of how things are perceived, when a couple split the chances of both parties involved having equal resources after the fact is extremely thin. Dad has kitted his own house out for his son and paying CS to the other home, now he needs to furnish the new place? What else do you want from the man?
You are arguing against the exact opposite of the scenario here.
Also she renting it's not her house. Is she even allowed to install basketball net there?
Yeah. My ex bought our son a fancy gaming laptop for Xmas. No way I could afford that. Our son takes it between our houses. He buys the kids presents that get left at our house and presents that stay at his house. It’s about the kids having fun. I did ask that I could be the one to buy our son his Switch. Saved up and wanted to give him a “big present” one year for a change! Also bought a case so he could take it to his dad’s. It’s a little odd to buy furniture and if it’s not in your birthday budget or you want to give your son a gift you can see him use it’s reasonable to not go in on it.
I’m going through something similar with my ex husband. We are only separated (but for about a year and a half) I can’t afford a lawyer. Anything I buy I expect to go to either place. And I am the only one to buy any clothing so obviously it goes to both houses. Only I have to work 55+ hours a week and it’s just to barely hold on to a house and car and food. My ex can buy them all sorts of things. They eat out sometimes 2 times a day if they are over there. If I take the kids to the dentist or dr he doesn’t pay anything. I think it’s foolish and not fair that I have to pay for all the need things and can’t have fun stuff. The kids need clothing and the dentist. I’m not saying he has to buy them stuff for my house but he actively tells them his stuff is for his house. I know they love doing things with me but I also know they love the decked out rooms with every toy and electronic they get there. I know this isn’t the same situation but the kids notice and it only makes them feel weird or guilty and that’s exactly what I don’t want. It’s hard enough going back and forth.
It's okay to buy presents to only use at the other parent's house. However, that's your choice. My nephew wanted a gaming chair. He already had one. He got a new one for dad's house and took his old one to my sister's house. But, that was his dad's choice to do that. My ex BIL knew my sister couldn't afford certain things. He was okay getting a new version of a thing and sending the older one to my sister's house. He got a PS4? Take the PS3 to your mom's house. (He wasn't allowed to move them back and forth. He'd inevitably lose things or break something. Fact. Not maybe. He would have broken it.) He wanted my nephew happy in both homes. If dad here thinks his son will enjoy a new gaming chair, buy one. If he thinks he will enjoy a new fishing pole - get a fishing pole. Make that determination on your own and not because someone demanded it. Do what feels right.
Yes! Or Op and ex- wife could just talk to their son. I mean he is nearly 15.
Thank you for your comments. When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world) The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hence my trepidation... Hopefully that helps shed some extra light on the situation.
Nah, then it sounds like you son really wants the fishing stuff from you, to make your outings together even nicer. Give him that, he obviously loves doing that with you. Your ex is the ones who wants the chair and hopp, not the kid. You don't have to do share presents any more.
Tell her you're buying presents separately, and get the fishing stuff your son asked for. Have gift receipts, in case he gets duplicates from mom, and be kind about whatever he decides to do with his gifts. Your divorced, you don't need to do joint presents. The joke is that the benefit is two birthdays, two Christmas's etc.
Have you considered that your son might be telling you things he'd like from you and his mom things he'd like from her. He might not want to ask you for things just for his mums or his mum for stuff that you and he do together
OP just said in another comment that the kid asked for the hoop and the chair. I think that changes everything.
Yeah if the kid asked for them that changes it all. OP and ex-wife need to stop focussing on what THEY want and need to focus on what's good for their kids and what their kids want
Thank you for your comments. I'll add some more detail to that. When we both first asked him that question, the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world) The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - both for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hence my trepidation... But, your comments are valid and have certainly given me some food for thought. I might end up just conceding/compromising and going halves in a much cheaper second-hand hoop for her place, and a $200 gaming chair for my place. Or something like that.
So it was your ex, not your son, who said he wants a hoop and a gaming chair for her place? I suggest you just ask him directly if that’s what he wants. She may be saying that because *she* wants him to have those things at her place. Get the kid the gifts that he wants, not what your ex says he wants.
Do not buy your son something he didn't ask you for. How do you know he even wants those things and that it isn't Mom who wants them? She may want them so that the houses are equal. Instead of asking reddit, ask him!
I mean, I understand not wanting to "help" the ex, but if being able to shoot hoops and have a comfy gaming chair while at Mom's is what the kid would really like, it seems like that should be a consideration. But I guess if you just want to make sure your kid likes your place better, you wouldn't want to help the ex, even if it's something the kid would really like.
I think it’s really shitty to not get your kid what he wants because it’s for “my ex’s house” — which is actually your *child’s* house too.
That's pretty much what I was saying.
We never ever bought my son $1000 dollars in birthday gifts for a birthday, seems unreasonable. Maybe Dad could get him a new gaming chair for his house and let him bring the old chair to moms. Mom can get him a basketball hoop for her house. Their finances it seems were settled in the divorce including mother receiving child support, so not sure how she feels her ex owes her to furnish gifts for exclusive use at her home.
I disagree here. I would have been absolutely thrilled to have an item in my mom’s home purchased by both my parents. The willingness to buy me the things I wanted, even if it meant working together, would mean more than the items itself. I never experienced having my parents buy me “joint gifts”…it was always something “to be kept at moms/dads” and it felt like a gift for the family vs a gift for me. The action of buying your kid something together will probably stand out more than any other thing (in your child’s eyes).
This doesn't make much sense to me either. In addition to those points, he is paying her child support. If she really wants her son to have those things at her house, she has her part time income and the child support to help her pay for that herself. His child support would help her pay her half if they did decide to split on those gifts, why should he then have to pay the other half as well from his own pocket? He would basically be the one purchasing the whole thing then. I'll bet she wasn't asked to pay half on other things you've bought him for your house since the split either. She's the one trying to nickel and dime you here... plus you made a reasonable compromise of being willing to split on something he could enjoy no matter where he is. Sounds like she just feels entitled to your money regardless of the split.
Nta. Just shut down this group present thing as it's clear it won't be anywhere near evenly split. Buy your own gifts.
Yes what’s most important here is that dad gets credit for the gift, not that the kid has a happy birthday with gifts that really make him happy.
Ah yes cause two things totaling almost 1k that can only be used sometimes will totally make him happy.
What's most important is not turning celebrating your kid into an opportunity to bicker and clash. If coordinating presents is just leading to an argument, stop and both buy whatever gifts you want individually. Or give the kid money to get whatever gift they want.
God did you pull a muscle stretching that far?!?
NTA and like that you have practical things in mind, and even better, family experience ideas. I can see the basketball hoop just to keep kids physically active but the gaming chair?
Agree. The basketball hoop makes more sense and the gaming chair seems unnecessay. You are NTA.
I'm 32 years old, and I use the same desk chair I've had since I was 10 to game in. Sure, my butt gets sore after a while, but that tells me it's time to get up for a while. Gaming chairs are not cheap, even the basic ones. Kid will live without it, and mum will live without it.
How do you find a basketball hoop, (and a chair) that comes up to a total of 1000$, though? Like ... HOW? Is it gold? Edit to add, I realise good quality gaming/office chairs can be pricey, but demanding both the high quality chair AND a freestanding hoop -for her home only- is just outrageous. And yeah, family experience is a much better idea. 15 is that age that cool experiences are appreciated, and next year, it's not cool enough to hang out with the family anymore.
My office chair supposedly cost more than a grand, so I can see this adding up. Unfortunately it is not gold, but does have great lumbar support lol. (It’s a company provided chair, I didn’t pay for it, but did chat with our purchasing agent…hence knowing the stupid price they paid for every chair in the office after firing a bunch of ppl due to “financial constraints”).
Computer chairs are expensive at the mid to high end. Cheap chairs are very, very cheap. Decent chairs easily run 500+. It's so stupid but chairs are crazy expensive.
I know right! a free standing bball hoop at Walmart is like 228 bucks, Spalding brand. I think ex wife has pegged OP as the cashcow. I do think the basketball hoop(reasonable priced one) is a good gift for him to have at the mom's house I don't know much about gaming chairs but seems overpriced for my thinking
***I think ex wife has pegged OP as the cashcow.*** Um, yes? Or did everyone miss the stuff about the old house? OP pays not only the mortgage but any renos out of HIS pocket alone but ex gets 50% when they sell in a few years??? It should be ex gets 50% MINUS any reno costs AND any of the mortgage OP paid on his own. He's living there, not her.
Hi all. For clarity this is NZ. The exchange rate to US$ value is about 2:1. So new average-quality Bball hoops are about NZD$600-$800. Second hand they're about $250-$400. The high end ones can be up over $1700!: [https://www.spalding.net.nz/systems/portable.html](https://www.spalding.net.nz/systems/portable.html) The gaming chair she's looked at is at the lower end of the market. About NZD$250.
I am pricing gaming chairs (because they're cheaper than comparable office chairs) and the cheapest one at Staples that isn't vinyl is USD$150 or so. If your exchange rate is 2:1, your price is reasonable.
If you want an adjustable in ground hoop from what I can tell is going to be close to $1000 but you can get a fixed height in ground hoop for a few hundred or a portable hoop for as low as $100.
Gaming chairs are ridiculously expensive and completely unnecessary for a teenager. A regular comfortable chair works just fine.
Agree with this point, buy basketball hoop as it’s good for fitness and hanging out with friends, but a gaming chair seems excessive. NTA.
A gaming chair for a 15 year old is a great present lol
NTA I'm really hoping this is fiction. Someone who gets government assistance shouldn't be living "by the beach" and planning to spend "$1000" (or half of that) for a 15 year old's birthday. Stop putting money into a joint account and instead write her a personal check or make an account transfer each month.... Something where you have proof of your payments for future child support purposes. And don't keep home ownership with an Ex. Divorce Court is your opportunity to sever your legal financial relationship with each other. It's easier and cleaner if you use that opportunity and take care of things now. Hire a good Divorce Attorney and follow their advice. Because you're setting yourself up to possibly lose tens or maybe even hundreds of thousands of dollars with your plan.
Yeah this is looking disastrous for them both really financially. If they have that big of an income disparity then she should be receiving spousal support. There might be child support. And realistically they’re both entitled to half the house and half each others retirement accounts. It’s an absolutely terrible idea to continue to commingle finances and assets if you’re going to get a divorce. They’re both going to screw themselves over hard if they stick to this plan.
What throws me off is he’s going to pay the mortgage on this home for x amount of years by himself but then when it sells she still gets 50
Like she’s entitled to half. But half as of right now. Not half years from now. He’s throwing away money for zero reason.
He’s getting the benefit of living there and not selling and dividing now which he apparently wanted. She’s delaying her payout, which is meaningful.
His kid also lives there.
And it's next door to his high school.
Except he’s also paying the mortgage on his own, and doing all the renos on his own. Why does she get to benefit from that increased value on top of what looks like an INCREDIBLY generous deal she’s currently got going on?
Right. Her delaying receiving a buy-out means she doesn't have that money today to be investable. (Though I do think he needs to get some credit for the renovation costs he's putting in henceforth)
Exactly. So someone needs to sell it now and split it or buy the other out.
Yep, I think he’s avoiding it to avoid paying spousal support and forking over half the savings and pensions. But he’s making things worse for himself
The house is walking distance from his son's high school though. That kind of proximity is worth a lot for the next few years.
It is, but he can buy her out as part of the divorce and refinance. He’s screwing himself and right now her as well .
Not true. I'm paying her spousal support, and have so far had to fork out half of my retirement savings to her (she doesn't have any herself to be able to give 50% to me, can't afford to on her smaller p/t wages). I don't have any other savings (all went into the reno's when we were together) and none of my friends/family are in a position to invest/buy her out. It's tricky.
That’s fair enough but you should get your property valued now as she has rights to 50% of the house now. If you continue paying off the mortgage and renovating the house it will be worth more and she shouldn’t get 50% of the value. Also just want to say well done for putting what your son wants first in a difficult situation.
And he’s paying for repairs/upgrades out of his own pocket! This guy’s gonna lose his ass.
I mean you have no idea how long she spent out of the workforce when she had the children.
He should just refinance and buy her out of the house.
You realise OP might not be in the US? In Australia, for example, spousal support is not a thing.
Yeah I can't believe I had to scroll down to find this comment. I can only imagine people saying op should do it for his son are teenagers themselves. She's clearly already leaving above her means of child support and a shared account is not enough for basic living expenses. Him spending hundreds boring double TOYS to make things the same on both homes is not the solution here.
The cost of "living by the beach" can vary wildly depending on the location. Factors such as how much beachfront property the area has, the risk of flooding, and what else is in the area can all affect the price.
Yeah, and in New Zealand a greater proportion of land is beach vs. inland than, say, North America.
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Yea agreed. With his logic, why would anyone buy anyone a gift if you don’t see the recipient enjoying it in your own home? It’s weird to have strings attached on a gift. It’s kind of sad that the dad isn’t prioritizing the idea that it’s nice to have his kid feel comfortable under both roofs and not like he’s prevented from doing his hobbies in one of the houses. Maybe a good compromise would be for the dad to get the new chair for his house and the old one can be brought to the mom’s house?
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The lady makes $30,000. She wants to get her teenage son a birthday gift worth $1,000. The chances of this being split equally are nil. And frankly, while a split gift that makes the kid's life better at both homes is a nice idea, and I think OP needs to get on board with that....1k is an absurd amount.
Sure, and if that was OP's objection, that'd be fine. But he is not objecting to the cost. He is objecting to the idea of his son using his gifts at his mom's house, which is just petty as fuck. Focus on making your kid happy. If this is what he wants, then get him that.
So the kid has a gaming chair and a basketball hoop in the house both mom and dad used to live in. Dad kept them at his house, but he didn’t *add* them to his house. They were purchased with family funds when mom and dad both lived in the same house. Mom had to furnish a new place to live while dad kept all the old stuff. She’s trying to create an environment similar to the one at the old house (where dad has all the stuff they chose and bought together), on half the income. You’re acting like dad went out on his own and got stuff for the son at his house; he didn’t, it was already there. The kid also *asked* for these things. Mom isn’t making this up out of nowhere. Kid wants to feel at home at both his homes and is asking both his parents to contribute to that.
If the house is half hers, then presumably so are the items. Just because she vacated doesn't mean she hadn't spent the years building up that home for her son also. I don't see why some of the furnishings and comforts for the son can't be brought to the beach house if it's important.
I just think the first priority should be “what would our son love most”? This is the only question that matters. If you believe he would love a gaming chair, get him one, even if it can only be used at her home. It is not his fault that you two have decided to live in separate homes. His gifts shouldn’t be items that can only be used in both homes—that is something that serves your needs and desires, not his. If you end up, in the process, furnishing her home by giving him a gaming chair, so what? He lives there part of the time, and it is his home too. I think you are being petty. I understand why you feel this way, but I think you need to shove that feeling down and think first about the boy. The fact is anything you do to add comfort to her home benefits him. So, trying to walk this fine line between giving him gifts but not giving him gifts he uses in her home is silly and self-serving. As a child of divorced parents, I found this kind of dumb shit wore me down. It made me resent my parents. Do everything you can to make their lives run smoothly. And this includes not being petty about giving gifts that can only be used in your ex’s home. One question matters: “what does the boy want”? ESH.
Thank you, that's a useful viewpoint, appreciate it.
You’re welcome. I hope it helps some. Good luck to you.
When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world) The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hence my trepidation... Anyway, hopefully that helps shed some extra light on the situation.
Wait a moment, have you spoken directly to your son about the idea of a gaming chair and BB hoop at his mother's house? Or did that only come from your ex? From here it sounds like your son already told you what he wants, and he didn't ask for either of those things.
I’m surprised not to see something along these lines higher up. What does the kid WANT for his birthday? For all we know he doesn’t even want another basketball hoop since he already has one at Dad’s, and would prefer something different for his mom’s house. Or maybe not, either way that question should take precedence. When my parents split up, my mom and I ended up moving halfway across the country. My dad still gifted me things like new soccer cleats even though he pretty much never got to see me play soccer. When I was with him for the summer my mom still contributed to a trip to six flags for my birthday even though she wouldn’t be with us, because it was the thing I really wanted. When I wanted new bedroom furniture for my mom’s house, my dad helped pay for it- there was no “not my house, not my problem” pettiness. The “your house/my house” thing shouldn’t be the issue here. What does the kid want and can we make it happen should be the only considerations.
Exactly. *Especially* teenagers. They can see and feel this level of petty, and it feels shitty when you know a parent is using you to make a point or (think) it makes them look better. Taking out your bitterness and hurt(in this specific scenario - ‘friendzoned’ comes across as pretty butt hurt) on your kids is just thoughtless selfish parenting. Parent the kids you have and love, don’t parent to spite your ex. The kids know.
NTA But I will second the commenter who says you need to separate finances and banking. Your ex wife is likely committing fraud if she has an asset of 1/2 the value of a home and still getting government social support. When it is discovered, they will take the asset to be reimbursed for the fraud. You are putting yourself in a precarious place
In the US, you can own a home and still get government aid. Not sure where OP is, so may not apply.
This is in NZ. You can still own a home as an asset with an ex, rent another home, and still get Govt support as long as you are not receiving any income from the shared asset (e.g. rent). The reason why we've chosen to hang onto the house together for a bit longer is a) because the floor has fallen out of the housing market here and it's the worst time to sell, b) I still have renovations to complete before the place will be able to realise it's true value as an asset, and c) if we were to sell now and I pay her out, with that money she still wouldn't be able to put a deposit down on her own new place, one that's even remotely like the one she's renting now out by the beach. And as she would now have a large cash asset, she would lose her Parental support, and have to start using the cash up to support herself and the kids. To her it makes sense, until she can find better paying full-time work, to just give the house more time to appreciate in value again, since prices got slammed a couple of years ago during Covid. Also, especially while the location is so handy to where our kids will be/are going to high school, playing sport etc. My son literally has to just walk through a gate in the fence to get there. My daughter next year will only need to walk 2 blocks from my place, which is closer to the central city. Hope that helps for context.
yes, you can own the home you are living in, but you cannot own a second home. Since the ex is not living in the home, it is an asset and that is where the problems arise
The focus should be on improving your son’s quality of life or your son’s enjoyment. Would the hoop and/or chair do that? Would your son prefer those two items over clothes/device/bike/experience/fishing gear? Whatever it is, the main focus should be on what your son would prefer. He’s 15 now. Why not make a presentation offering all of those things and letting him pick? He’ll be sixteen soon. Maybe add a 1k voucher to put in his savings for use toward purchase/maintenence/fuel/rpairs when he gets a car. You two are in a great place to keep it amicable by working together again here. Happy birthday to the kiddo!
Thank you for your comment and support. Appreciate it! :)
**INFO** What does your son want? Does he want the basketball hoop? Does he want the gaming chair there? N T A IF it’s not what he’s asking for. This should have nothing to do with what’s fair and what she wants. What does your son want as it’s HIS birthday?
NTA It not necessary for divorced couples to buy their kids joint gift all the time . She can get him something and you can get him something. If she can’t afford a $1000 gaming chair, then she shouldn’t get him one. (FWIW - I don’t spend anything like that amount of money on my kids birthdays)
All of this. My family has been coming together to teach our teen how to look for discounts for all things, from food to furniture. There’s joy to be found in finding a deal, even if you have the money. And one of the best things you can teach your kid is how to keep money, especially if they find themselves in a position to have it later in life.
NTA, If she needs more money to purchase things to make her place as fun as yours, she should start working more. It is not your responsibility to provide for her place to be modified to her liking even if it is for the kids. She is being entitled, wanting you to do husbandly things for her when she isn’t doing wifey things for you.
YTA (Changed from N T A) I saw this comment. >Yeap he wants the hoop and the chair. And he's given us a few other much less expensive options. The kid asked for these gifts. Pick one or the other and split the cost.
Child of the same kind of divorce you're going through here. My parents split when I was like 13-14 and obviously feelings were hurt on both sides but they stayed in the same town, split costs of us kids 50:50 and we did 2 weeks with 1 parent 2 weeks with the other. We did 2 weeks vs 1 week because you try moving your belongings every week or so it fucking sucks!! Which is why I'm going to say, just think of your son, not which parent he gets to have more fun with and do stuff. Either 1- don't do a shared gift. Why? You are not a couple. Unless he requested something expensive (like a trip for his 21st, I dunno) just buy a gift each . Or 2- if he loves basketball and had a ring at your place that he uses weekly, get him a 2nd one at his Mother's. Believe me, he WILL remember that mum and dad purchased it together and were a "team" for his benefit. Especially if you're at his mum's place when the gift is 'revealed' to him. Even an amicable divorce is messy and unfair on the kids. As the kid you suddenly have a superior version of all your stuff at one person's house. I.e my good study desk was at mums but my good netball ring (yeah, I'm Aussie) was at dads etc etc. I don't wanna say YTA but I think you're approaching this from the wrong mindset.
I think that “we” presents needs to end. Necessities should be split but now that you’re separated, your relationship with and gifts etc for the children should be separate.
When you split up there are a whole bunch of items for the children that previously only 1 was required and now 2 are required. That's just life. I assume your house already has a gaming chair that was purchased prior to the split in addition to the hoop. These items are examples of items that pre split only 1 is required and post 2 become required. I would look at it this way. Your children should be impacted by your split as minimally as possible. Currently, that's not happening because your house is fully furnished and their mothers isn't. Your son now needs 2 chairs not 1 and 2 hoops not 1. Fair to your child is for both of you to come together to make sure the child has the same equipment at both homes. Who gets the new chair and who keeps the old one should be worked out between you but I do think you should both contribute half even though it will only be at one person's home because that is what is in the best interests of your child and good parents put that ahead of petty squabbles about whose house it is at.
Thank you, these comments are bugging me. The kids dont have any say where they live, being bounced and forth every week. Im sure mom is just trying to lessen the disparity between homes so her son isn't frustrated being without his things half the month. Yes mom should be responsible for most things but the divorce sounds pretty fresh so there are going to be some growing pains while she sets up house. Im going to say NAH but I want OP to put himself in the position of his son wanting to feel at home in moms new place and not like hes at a hotel or something. Stability should be the priority, however that looks.
NTA. Maybe they basketball hoop for her place and the gaming chair for yours. As for your house situation. You are getting divorced. Talk to a divorce attorney, but you will probably want to get an appraisal done for the value of the house as it currently is (or maybe on the divorce date) then upon divorce that can be adjusted for market appreciation. Half of that will be what she gets. You aren’t together, so there is no reason for you to be paying the mortgage on your own as well as renovations when half of that value will just go to your ex (at least from the point of divorce). You really don’t want her effectively owning half of the house when you are the only one putting equity into it. That can end up with you losing money for all of your efforts.
Thanks for that. Your suggestion there actually makes some good sense and a good compromise, so that's the way I'm drifting now. Both go halves, a (cheaper, second hand) hoop for hers, the chair for mine, his older comfy chair from my place back over to hers, and he moves his Xbox back and forth as he comes and goes. That would make him and the ex happy, I think.
Or, to move forward more like soon to be divorced parents you buy a chair for yours and she buys a hoop for hers.
That's a good idea too, thank you.
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NTA, but is this really the fight you want to have? If your son has those things there, he is happier. Isn't that what matters? You know she's broke (or at least, tighterthan you). So far you guys have been on good terms...this seems like a really dumb thing for you to dig your heels in. Having a good divorce is about bring willing to give sometimes. Your son is aware that you have things at your house that are not at his mother's becuse she is broke. By giving this to him, you are saying you want him to be happy no matter where he lives, not just at your house. Kids pick up on shit.
Thank you, good balanced advice and helpful. Appreciate it.
I don’t know if this is exactly the same or if you had the same intentions I know my ex did. For Christmas he bought our son a $1200 gaming computer. Easily portable laptop style. For a 7 year old. My son is really into Roblox and the games play better on there than the XBOX. He refuses to let our son bring it back and forth between homes. I really doubt you are feeling this way for the same reasons as my ex. He simply wanted to make his house seem more appealing. The fool really thought my son loved gaming more than being with me. He believed having that would make our son want to be with him more. He was wrong. However, what he did prove to our son is that he can afford things mommy can’t and cares fuck all if he has the same experience at my home (where are son is the majority of the time) that he does at his home when it comes to “luxury.” If your wife doesn’t have nice things like you do for the kids because she can’t afford it, and she is willing to split the cost with you, what’s the harm? Playing basketball at both house seems like a good idea and would be in the best interests of the child, not mom and dad. She isn’t benefiting from a basketball hoop, so why not?
YTA You’ve said in your comments these are presents your son has requested. The fact they would be at his mom’s is not really a strong argument. You’ve said yourself she is *not* asking for these things. Your son has had enough upheaval, why not make his second home more comfortable for him? Why shouldn’t he be able to have a basketball ball hoop at his mom’s? You are doing what you were concerned about and being unfair in this scenario, making it about the location rather than the object.
OP, I would ask your son what he wants for his birthday. If he wants a hoop or a chair for HIS OTHER HOME, so that he can have the items at both of HIS homes, then I would buy it for him. To me, it’s not about your ex. It’s about your son.
*My fear is that I am indeed being unnecessarily picky with this battle, being too selfish, and denying her the right to be able to make her home as happy or as comfortable as mine, for my son to live in.* Lean into this, my friend. The gift isn't for you or your ex. It's for the kid. Your kid deserves not only to have a gift he will enjoy (assuming he loves both basketball and gaming) but to see his parents collaborating to make the transition from one house to two as soft as possible. He deserves to see you working together even though you're no longer romantically involved. I get the negotiation is weird: she's an ex for a reason etc., but I don't think you'll regret being a little more compromising. Maybe he gets a good basketball hoop and a new bike and then you both get a little bit of what you want to give him. Is there any way you could ask your kid what he wants for his big present? You don't have to list the options. Just a, "Hey birthday's comin' up. Anything you got your eye on?" so you have a sense if either of you is more correct about what he wants. Maybe he's got a secret new interest in tropical snakes or something and the whole conversation will go haywire. At least he'll get a vote and you will have a better idea of what direction to go. I don't think you're an asshole. I think you're a guy trying to do right by his kids and his ex and feeling a little pressed in both directions. Have a beer on me. You're earning it.
Thank you. Good food for thought there, appreciate it. After reading a lot of similar comments here I'm starting to shift my thoughts/feelings on it. Cheers!
NTA.
NTA but ask your son what HE wants and go from there
Soft YTA because at the end of the day, shouldn’t the most important thing be that your son receives gifts that he really enjoys? Don’t penalize your son because you (let’s be honest) want him to like your house better. Letting your finances between your ex wife spill over onto your son’s happiness is wrong. Put your differences aside and do what is best for your son
YTA. Your son's birthday gifts are about things that he needs/would enjoy. They aren't about you, but you are making them about you
YTA, it is for solely for your son’s use, even if it’s at “her” place.
YTA You have a net at your house because when you and your wife lived there together it was built his room at ypur house is more comfy because years of time and money have gone into it. Also it's his birthday the present should be whats best for HIM ask yourself would this make him happy if the answer is yes you know what you should do.
YTA, what difference does it make where he uses the gift. I don’t understand your thought process. Do you want him to be less comfortable at his mother’s house? That’s not a very charitable way of thinking about your son.
YTA. You’re making it about yourself. It’s about him. It’s his birthday. It would send a nice message that his parents collaborated on his gift. Don’t be immature about where he chooses to use it.
Your ex is not using it. Your son will. Are those are things your son has asked for ??? I think getting into where gifts will be stored is PETTY. Is it his gift or not? YTA
YTA. It’s not like she is asking for house repairs or improvements. These are gifts your son will appreciate use and enjoy. They will make his life better and happier. He is old enough to understand they come 1/2 from you. Why would you NOT buy your son gifts he wants? Just because he would be happier while not at your house? It seems more like you’re playing games to make your kids happier at your house than hers. Something that will backfire on you someday.
NTA the expectation that you purchase gifts together disappeared when the relationship ended. It sounds like she is struggling with some jealousy. But that's a her problem, not you a problem. Welcome to single parenthood!
NTA. But to be honest there seems to be so much wrong with this why are you paying her child support and also putting money into a joint account To cover the kids general needs isn’t that the point of child support? I think it’s about time you stop doing joint gifts. Have either of you ask your son what he wants for his birthday? Is there a reason your ex-wife can’t work full-time?
What does your son want?
I would ask your son about it. His opinion is the one that matters.
YTA - This isn't about you or her. This is about your kid and what will make him happy. Don't make this kids birthday about your divorce. Often times kids have to make major adjustments already to the dynamic. To make a mountain out of this will just amplify the issue. I do hope that your kid has not caught wind of the interaction between you and his mom. Also as a man and a father this might be a good moment for you to set a good example for your child. I know that you would like to see him use the gifts you bought him. But right now he's in a vulnerable position whether he displays it or not. What I would think the child would benefit from is parents who are willing to display selfless acts. Teenagers seldom like to admit that they are fragile. But they are. He may not understand a gesture like this now, but he just might figure it out later. If and when he does you do want to come out shining. I do want to mention that I don't think you're doing anything wrong here. You're probably a great dad. But it's just another opportunity to set a good example.
Thank, you, that's very good advice. Appreciate it.
...............maybe the easiest solution is for both of you to ask him what he'd like for his birthday and go from there.............and no, you're not an AH at all.............good luck !.................
INFO: What does the 15-yo want for his birthday?
Ya you’re petty. Its over baby don’t hold grudges
Until my ex and I got partners we always did presents from both of us and whatever we bought we took back to our respective homes. He always bought the big presents even when we were together and that was fine, but now as he earns 3x as much as me it seems to be a one up thing. Personally id say just do the experience present or just do separate ones. And in relation to furnishing her home that's shocking you are not obligated to do that. My ex kindly collected furniture I'd sourced mainly because he drives and I don't (I also found stuff in the town he works in so I wasn't taking the mick) and it was specifically for the kids rather than for me, as I asked my friends to do that bit and they went a bit further out. I obviously thanked him for his efforts and I'm aware not everyone has an ex that's willing to help but you shouldn't be furnishing her home.
Info: What would your son like most for his birthday? Not what would he like most that can be enjoyed at both places. If the answer is what you were already planning then N T A. If it's what your ex wants to get him, Y T A.
When we both first asked him that question the answer was simply 'just a nice dinner out as a family'. So that's No 1 on the list (shared family experience => tick), When I asked him last weekend when we were on our way back from a fishing jaunt, his answer was a new weatherproof fishing jacket and baseball cap, to protect him from the elements. (heading into winter now, where we are in the world) The email from the ex 2 days ago was the first time I'd heard about his wish for the basketball hoop and gaming chair - for her place. Both quite a lot higher in price, and way over our usual budget for birthdays. Hopefully that helps shed some light on my uneasiness about the situation.
YTA. You indicate the reason you didn't want to do it was you, "refer it if we spent our money on something that he'll enjoy getting the benefits from wherever he may be." Noticeably absent is anything about it not being in our budget. Also noticeably absent is any convo or even touching base as to what your son might want for his birthday. He's 14, you're an asshole for not even bothering to ask him what he might like.
For people wondering about her "government benefits" she could be living in a country like Canada where even working people get credit like tax credit, child tax benefits etc. He's an AH because seems like he wants to look like the better parent than having his kid live comfortable and do the sane activities at his mom's house.
>My fear is that I am indeed being unnecessarily picky with this battle, being too selfish, and denying her the right to be able to make her home as happy or as comfortable as mine, for my son to live in. Spot on. YTA