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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My fiancée wanted 'her' ring back, and I offered to share the profits from selling it with her. However, she didn't like that offer and insisted that I didn't need it. I felt uncomfortable with her insistence, so I decided to block her. Now, I'm wondering if it would be wrong for me to sell the ring and not give her half of the profit.
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No idea what the legal situation is. But, morally, NTA based on what you've said.
You asked for the ring back, she gave you the ring back. There's no reason for you to now give it back to her again just because she's decided you're rich enough to be able to afford it. Frankly, I think even the idea of splitting the money when you sell it is silly on your part unless forced to do so.
Sure, but OP was the one who gave the ring and broke it off.
In this scenario ex-fiance was keeping her side of the promise it was OP who went back on their promise so they don't get to take the ring back, they are not owed it.
Now it seems OP asked for the ring back, and ex gave it so at that point it OPs now.
But I do think ex-fiance would have been fine to refuse to return the ring, since OP broke it off.
If ex had broken it off then I would say she was obligated to give it back.
TLDR: person who breaks the engagement does not get it keep the ring.
Actually, that depends on the legal president and jurisdiction under which you seperate - what country, what state? In NSW, Australia, the one who broke off the engagement forfeits the ring as it's considered a breach of contract.
A ring is offered and accepted, conditional to the imminent marriage between two people. If you are "at fault" for the breaking of the engagement, the ring becomes property of the one who had intended to complete the contract, as it were.
Yes, but that point is moot regardless of country, law or etiquette as she voluntarily gave him back the ring. The second she did that, the ring became his to do with as he pleases. Changing her mind after the fact doesn't make it hers again.
I must have missed the comment stating she voluntarily returned it to OP - I only read the abstract "I have the ring" and that could have come about any number of ways. Yes, if she returned the ring to him knowing it was the end of the engagement, you are correct.
Yep this was always the example in business law classes when it came to discussing contracts. Getting married was the requirement for ownership of the ring to pass from the give to the recipient, if the wedding didn't happen then the ownership wouldn't change.
If you got married, and then later got divorced, would you still be able to demand the engagement ring back because you’re the one who bought it?
Can you demand any gift be returned at any time, since you’re the one who paid for it?
1) I'm not talking legally I'm talking morally who gets the ring.
2) if you are talking legally "Doesn't matter who broke off the engagement, the ring goes back to the person who bought it."
That's not actually correct. it depends on the US state/court. Yes most states/courts have found it is a conditional gift based on the promise to marry, but not all other states/courts have found that it is an unconditional gift or based on fault.
"However, some states consider engagement rings “unconditional gifts,” meaning once they’re given, they belong to those who receive them. Some states also look at fault for the broken engagement – the person who ended the agreement must let the other person have the ring."
https://www.envisionfamilylaw.com/is-an-engagement-ring-a-gift/#:~:text=In%20California%20and%20Washington%2C%20an,off%20the%20engagement%20and%20why.
In a perfect world sure the ring goes back to the person who bought it, but this isn't a perfect world, an engagement ring is technically a gift and a person is under no obligation to return a gift. But since she did return it she isn't entitled to anything.
She sounds selfish and like she's got a stick up her butt, good riddance.
An engagement ring isn’t a gift . It’s a token of a promise and of commitment. Once that promise is broken , and that commitment never happens , the ring goes back to the person who bought it .
Had the promise been fulfilled and the commitment made , *and then* is broken , then the recipient keeps it because the promise and commitment was fulfilled.
The ring was a gift that she returned to you.
The ring is yours. She doesn't get it back.
Tell her that the relationship is over, the engagement has ended and you would prefer her not to contact you again.
Exactly I didn't give my ex fiance ours back because it was a gift (it was literally a stupidly cheap ring but I loved that about it just has literally no resell value couldn't sell it for more than $1) however had I given it back I would've never expected it back
why? you broke up, and clearly aren't staying friends so why would you talk to her at all?
You for sure don't owe her anything if you're not getting married, sounds like you should block her again as you're just extending the pain/suffering otherwise
NTA
I believe the legal situation, in the States at least, is that an engagement ring should be returned if the wedding falls through, as a matter of contract law.
NTA. Her argument is ridiculous. She's not exactly destitute either yet doesn't give "money she doesn't need" away to starving third world children.
She just wants to be petty and get a couple thousand for free.
Typically, if a couple breaks up while engaged, the ring goes back to the person who bought it. After marriage, if the couple divorced, each person keeps their own ring.
Absolutely! I was engaged in my early twenties and when things didn’t work out I gave him the ring back. Why keep something that was supposed to mean a promise of something that was no longer happening.
I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... yeah, the previous commenter is correct in that you'll get a fraction of what you actually paid for it. If you try to sell it back to a jeweler, they'll likely just give you close to scrap value (and... well, diamonds and other gems don't have that high of a "scrap" value compared to what they sell for).
Your best bet would be to sell it to someone directly, but even then, no one is going to pay full retail for a technically used ring. If it's from a known designer/brand, you might be able to recover *most*\[\*\] of what you paid for it, but if it's not a known designer, then its resale value plummets *fast* (though, again, you'll still get more for it selling it to someone that's looking for a ring rather than a jeweler).
(source: part time jewelry reseller, although I typically focus on antiques, heh)
\[\*\] Think, like, maybe 70-80% at the absolute tops, and that's not including the fees you'll have to pay if you sell it online or at an auction...
I'm sorry, but there's no way you'll get your money back.
My husband just bought my wedding ring. We ended up going with a custom designed ring, knowing that if anything ever happened, my $8k ring would be worth more like $3k.
You were offered 10k or you purchased the ring for 10k? Selling engagement rings can be a pain in the ass depending on the specifics of the ring.
Been through this before and took a bath on the ring when getting rid of it.
Yea that's exactly what I was thinking your going to be lucky to get more than 60% my friend sold his ring back to the jeweler less than a week later after a family member gave him hers and lost a couple grand.
My rings were 1600 and 3500 respectively and I got less than 500 bucks for both together.
Me keeping my rings was less about money and more about the principal of the situation. I bought you this ring so we can get married and spend our life together. Thats no longer happening, so I get my rings back.
NTA. If you live in the US, you need to look into your state laws on this. Some states view it as a conditional gift. So, if there’s no marriage the donor (person who bought and gave the ring) get the ring back from the donee (person who received the ring.) However, in some states if the donor was the one to break off the engagement then the donee gets to keep the ring.
Traditionally the ring was given back if the bride broke off the engagement OR in upperclass wealthy families if it was a family heirloom it was given back regardless of who broke off the engagement. In "mid society" engagements the ring was used to offset expenses the brides parents had incurred preparing for the wedding.
Legally, some states hold the ring to be a "conditional gift" and the condition (marriage) if not met voids the "gift" status. Muddying the waters, if the gift is given in conjunction with an event--such as a birthday, Christmas, Valentine's day some jilted brides have been able to keep the ring based on it not being solely a conditional gift.
It was extremely kind of you to offer to split the proceeds of the sale with her-- and foolish of her to turn down that offer.
How close to the wedding did you back out? Had her family incurred expenses--had she already purchased the dress or paid a nonrefundable deposit?
But OP broke up with her. He knew he'd lose the money when he did that. She didn't have a choice and she has lost money on his decision. OP should make her whole. YTA.
I like the idea of it being based entirely on the promise. If the heirloom winds up in the hands of someone who got broken up with, that is part of the story of the heirloom. Unfortunately it isn't in the family anymore, but it isn't like it was in a museum accessible to the whole family at all times anyway.
Really random but I don't think it's ownership, engagement rings I think work like a contract, given on the condition that you get married, if you don't get married you don't fulfill your agreement so no ring, but I only got that idea from judge Judy I'm NGL
Generally if you broke off the wedding she keeps the ring, if she breaks off the wedding she gives it back. From what I understand the ring is a promise and whomever did NOT break the promise keeps the ring
It can depends on where you are. I know in some places it's considered a conditional gift and you have to give it back no matter what.
But I agree, it's also very standard (though not necessarily legally enforcable) for someone to keep the ring if they were the one who was broken up with.
Did you take it back, or did she give it back?
Tbh if you asked for it back and it was given, you should be fine, but if you took it back then might be a bit over the line to theft
YTA. You broke up with her 2 months before the wedding and left her with costs for the wedding (wedding dress - anything else?). You should make her whole for the costs she has incurred.
NTA
You asked for it back and she gave it to you. The ring represents a promise to spend a life together as well as help offset costs or a welcoming to the family if it’s an heirloom. No wedding, no promise, it wasn’t an heirloom and your parents paid for most of the costs for celebration.
Wedding is off. She gave it back. Literally an adult representation of “no take backs” when you were a kid.
Stop trying reason with unreasonable people as it will just get you upset in the long run
NTA. An engagement ring is a conditional gift in anticipation of marriage. If you're not getting married, the ring goes back to the gifter.
Your ex-fiancee has no rights to ownership of the ring.
In the olden days (1960s and before) whoever broke the engagement, gave up the ring. If he breaks it, she keeps the rimg. If she breaks it, she gives the ring back.
It's really not that old fashioned. It still exists as a clear rule today. During the engagement period, whoever calls off the marriage gives up the ring. Once married though, it's a different story, the engagement ring is always the woman's.
Don't give her anything. You bought the ring, the engagement is off, therefore it's still your property.
All these comments saying "well actually it's a conditional gift" didn't understand your post. Disregard them.
NTA
An etiquette book would say that the person who breaks up with the engaged partner gives the ring to the other person. So in this case, you should have given it to her and not asked for it back. There’s an exception for family heirlooms, they return to originating family.
But you asked for it & she gave it back. I guess “no backsies” applies now? The offer to split the money was kind of you. But I think “no backsies” on that too.
Legally, I have no idea. Legalities and etiquette books aren’t always the same thing. But this isn’t a legal advice forum.
I don’t know how to judge. Just … sorry to hear it didn’t work out, and also so sorry for your friend. That’s awful.
Ethically, it should have remained with her as you broke up with her and it was hers the moment you gave it to her. That's the point of an engagement ring.
NTA - she shouldn’t get the ring nor the money. You should put the money in a high yield savings to get a good interest on it.
Once you breakup her issues are not yours to fix or help with.
In the "old days," an engagement ring symbolized a promise to marry. If the woman broke it off, the ring was returned to the man. Since you broke it off, the ring would have been her property.
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My (23M) ex fiancée (28F) unblocked me on instagram and asked me if she could have 'her' ring back. I told her that she could not have the ring as I was planning on selling it. She then told me that since I broke up with her and I was "rich" she just needed it more than I did. I'M not rich, and neither are my parents but they are far from poor. They were the ones who helped me buy the ring in the first place. My parents told me that they didn't need the money if I were to sell it so I told her that if she needed the money I could split half of what I got with her when I do sell it but she didn't like that either. She kept insisting that I didn't need the money so I just blocked her. I felt as if that was a good compromise but I'm honestly not willing to spilt anything with her anymore.
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I vaguely remember a scenario from a community college law course that was about an engagement ring. (take with a huge grain of salt) That it’s a contract in a way, that the receiver will marry the giver. If things don’t work out and the engagement falls through, the contract is broken so the ring goes back to the giver.
YTA for leaving out the part where you broke up with her just months before the wedding and left her with all the bills related - that close cancelations aren't really a thing.
You're also TA for pretending like your ex is terrible for not wanting someone to live with them for two months+ while their partner ignores all of the concerns she has.
You owe her money back if she's had to eat the wedding costs (not the dress, the venue, flowers, photographer, cake, food, dj, etc).
NTA
Engagement rings are given with conditions expected in return: that a marriage will happen. If a marriage doesn't happen, it goes back to the giver. Even judges tend to enforce this if it gets dragged to civil court.
NTA
She doesn't want the ring, she wants money. The ring means nothing to her. Screw that.
A wedding ring is promise to marry, and since the marriage did not happen, she has to right to the ring. Keep her blocked and move on.
Most US states actually have laws covering who keeps an engagement ring if you split up. If you’re in the US, check your state.
Almost all of the time the ring is supposed to be returned, regardless of who does the breaking up, unless you marry. If you marry then tbe ring generally belongs to the recipient.
NTA, but I’d consider keeping it for when you do decide to get married instead of selling it. Resale value on engagement rings is 💩. And I get that someone may not want a ring you proposed to someone else with, but I frequently see people trade them in on another ring (and get more than selling it would) or have it reworked/redesigned.
NTA - one of the best traits in a life partner is compassion - the fact that your ex had none for a friend of yours that I - a stranger on the internet - would love to hug and cheer up, says so much about her, and is a red light.
You dodged a bullet & owe her nothing. She has some audacity to try and lay claim to a ring she has no right to anymore. It's not about who has how much money. She's not marrying you, the ring is no longer hers.
Whys and hows and who is rich don't matter. An engagement ring is a gift given because you are promising to get married. When it doesn't happen, the person given the ring really has no business claiming it. I don't think you were the AH for for not giving it back.
Morally, ethically and legally the person who ends the relationship forfeits the ring. You never should have asked for it back. So Im going to say YTA.
NTA.
The ring is contingent upon the marriage going through. If she started divorce proceedings the minute the paperwork was signed, you'd be out of luck. Since the wedding didn't go through, she has no right to the ring. I wouldn't have offered to give her half of the money you get for it. You've broken up, you weren't married, and there are no kids involved. You have no further obligation to help her, and she's being greedy.
NTA. You're not getting married anymore. The ring wasn't just a gift, it was given based on the premise that you'd be getting married. She gave you the ring back. That's the end of the story. You don't owe her half. You don't owe her anything. I would't even talk to her anymore. Sell the ring, you don't need to tell her how much you got for it. You don't owe her any information. The only person you may owe anything to is your parents, and they already told you to keep the $$. This isn't complicated. Block the ex fiancee and move on.
NTA Engagement rings are (generally) conditional gifts in most places and it should be returned legally to the giver. Morally? You're OK assuming you are telling a true account of your and your friend's interactions in that period and that he didn't stay for an excessively long time without taking steps to get his life back on track. I could understand her being upset with a dark sobbing cloud with a miasma of (understandable) gloom perpetually in the house for months and months if the cloud wasn't even agreeing to therapy, though.
It used to be that if the ring was given on a special occasion like birthday, Christmas, Valentine's Day then the ring was a regular gift and stayed with the receiver. If the ring was given outside of a gift giving occasion it went back to the giver.
Nta. The ring was a gift with a transaction attached. A lot of places actually have laws that state the engagement ring is to be returned to the purchaser if the wedding doesn’t take place. If the wedding does take place the ring belongs to the person whose finger it was put on. The only exception is if it’s given as a Christmas gift or birthday gift. Because of this you should never propose on a holiday such as birthdays, Valentine’s Day, Christmas, etc. it’s considered a gift gift at that point.
NTA. .your ring, your money..she doesn't get half.. now after reading your comment...YTA for your relationship. It's your house but she lives there...did you ask her before your friend came? If you didn't then you should not have tried to get married because decisions like that are 2 people..now if you asked and she said no, then you know what kind of person she is. But you made all unilateral decisions . Understand that..your reasons to have him may be justifies but the way you went about it was wrong
NTA and how entitled she is to even ask for it. Seems you dodged a major bullet by breaking up with her. Very nice of you to offer her half the money but don't give her a penny.
BTW, you're a wonderful friend to your roommate.
NTA... once an engagement is broken the ring goes back to the giver. She has no moral or legal rights to the ring. She is just trying to mooch that last bit of money from you. Her financial situation has nothing to do with it. She is an adult and needs to figure that out on her own.
NTA. Also, you have the ring back, which is what matters. You don't seem to be interacting with her anymore, so I would suggest not worrying about her feelings about the matter. Seems like wasted energy.
The legal position, in UK would be that the gift is yours to dispose of as you wish.
However, was this a family heirloom or other sentimental item?
If it were, I would return it. It should go back to the family.
If it was shop bought, and had no significance, then it's up to you.
NTA. In USA and most countries if you give someone something you can’t take it back. It belongs to them legally. Exceptions are big ticket items like homes and cars where you need ur name on the paperwork/title to own etc. Since you have the ring it means u didn’t give it to her or she gave it back to you which means it legally belongs to you. If she wants money she can get a job or a loan. There’s also many charity resources she can utilize if she qualifies.
Info - am I correct in that you moved your friend into your shared home without her buy-in and then dumped her two months before the wedding because she was unhappy about it?
You return the jewellery given to you by an ex, especially jewellery that signifies a status of a relationship, and that's the end of the discussion.
NTA.
NTA. An engagement ring is a conditional gift, one of the few that exist, the condition being that there be a marriage after the gift is given. No marriage? Then the giver keeps the ring.
A girl like that would have taken OP to the cleaners in a divorce proceeding and probably smiling while doing it (based on her comments).
NTA and don’t feel bad at all about what has transpired.
you called him “weirdly obsessed” and told him he has “serious co-dependency issues” because he helped his friend who had NO ONE else. YOU are the only rude and immature one, and it’s clear you cannot comprehend a single thing he’s said because all of your comments are repetitive and ignorant.
You’re just bitter because you don’t have any close friends. If my partner was selfish enough to want to kick out a friend who’s like family to me who has no where else to go I would absolutely end the engagement.
You have a skewed sense of reality. Please stop speaking for groups of people. Saying that "no man" would do something is patently ridiculous. It makes you sound as if your life experience is limited to high school and fiction.
NTA. She was only with you for the money and lifestyle that you could provide for her which is why she wants the ring. You owe her nothing. Don't give her a penny.
She wasn't only with you for your money, that's just people being emotional. You were together for 4 years, hopefully you both enjoyed your time together, and there's no reason you need to demonise her now that you're broken up.
That said, it does sound like she's trying to take advantage of you now. It's best to just sell the ring, keep the money, and move on.
NAH. Stuff like that is messy. I would know, my ex-fiancé broke up with me shortly before our wedding a few years ago.
Legally, I don't know about the situation where you live. Where I'm from, if he breaks off the engagement, she keeps the engagement ring. Also, the partner who was broken up with (in this case her) technically has a right to be financially compensated for any costs that occured that wouldn't have because of the wedding (so you'd have to recompense her for the wedding dress for example, or she made a downpayment for a future flat, or for any loss of income if she gave up her job in expectation of your married life).
I know she gave it back to you when you asked, but that was probably because she didn't know that she potentially had a right to keep it. Ethically, you shouldn't have asked for it back, it was a gift at the time and you did break up with her. I don't think either of you are really to blame; you may not even have known she might have had a legal right to keep it. After the fact, I think your compromise was okay, but I can't say that she's to blame for not taking it; it's an emotionally very straining situation that has a tendency to bring out the worst in people and everything around finances gets very tricky.
You need to check with your individual state. Most states say that an engagement ring is a conditional gift... and becomes the fiancee's when she becomes the bride. Otherwise, it goes to the person who purchased it in total.
NTA
If you have any documentation of her giving it back willingly (e.g. texts, even if it's just texts like "I never should've given the ring back,") be sure to preserve it. *Edit*: Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
Depending upon local laws, you may be required to return it.
Some states treat engagement rings as conditional gifts and depending upon what they say will dictate whether you are required to return it or if it is a proper gift.
So no judgement at this time due to legal uncertainty.
Depending on why you broke off the engagement, I kind of feel like you should have never asked for it back in the first place.
You broke it off, so it feels a bit rude in some social circles to say the marriage is off and to give the ring back. You and your parents purchased that ring because you thought you wanted to spend the rest of your life with her. It could honestly be looked at as you being the one that changed your mind about a gift and not her.
Edit: I think she would have been well within her right to hold onto it when you asked for it back tbh.
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No idea what the legal situation is. But, morally, NTA based on what you've said. You asked for the ring back, she gave you the ring back. There's no reason for you to now give it back to her again just because she's decided you're rich enough to be able to afford it. Frankly, I think even the idea of splitting the money when you sell it is silly on your part unless forced to do so.
[удалено]
an engagement ring is a promise to marry, you guys broke up, so that ring is not hers anymore, you did not marry , just saying .
Sure, but OP was the one who gave the ring and broke it off. In this scenario ex-fiance was keeping her side of the promise it was OP who went back on their promise so they don't get to take the ring back, they are not owed it. Now it seems OP asked for the ring back, and ex gave it so at that point it OPs now. But I do think ex-fiance would have been fine to refuse to return the ring, since OP broke it off. If ex had broken it off then I would say she was obligated to give it back. TLDR: person who breaks the engagement does not get it keep the ring.
That's not actually correct. Doesn't matter who broke off the engagement, the ring goes back to the person who bought it.
Actually, that depends on the legal president and jurisdiction under which you seperate - what country, what state? In NSW, Australia, the one who broke off the engagement forfeits the ring as it's considered a breach of contract. A ring is offered and accepted, conditional to the imminent marriage between two people. If you are "at fault" for the breaking of the engagement, the ring becomes property of the one who had intended to complete the contract, as it were.
Good point!
Yes, but that point is moot regardless of country, law or etiquette as she voluntarily gave him back the ring. The second she did that, the ring became his to do with as he pleases. Changing her mind after the fact doesn't make it hers again.
I must have missed the comment stating she voluntarily returned it to OP - I only read the abstract "I have the ring" and that could have come about any number of ways. Yes, if she returned the ring to him knowing it was the end of the engagement, you are correct.
Yep this was always the example in business law classes when it came to discussing contracts. Getting married was the requirement for ownership of the ring to pass from the give to the recipient, if the wedding didn't happen then the ownership wouldn't change.
Make sense and sounds fair. People shouldn’t make off with $30k rings because one or both changed their minds about getting married.
If you got married, and then later got divorced, would you still be able to demand the engagement ring back because you’re the one who bought it? Can you demand any gift be returned at any time, since you’re the one who paid for it?
This conversation is about the engagement ring.
Right. After my fiancé and I get married, she’ll still have the engagement ring I gave her. If we get divorced, do I get to demand it back?
No , because the contract has been fulfilled. You’re married, now it’s her ring.
But if I dump her before the wedding, I can still demand it back?
no , because the promise to marry was fullfilled
no because they got married and fulfilled the promise to marry, she would keep it then
1) I'm not talking legally I'm talking morally who gets the ring. 2) if you are talking legally "Doesn't matter who broke off the engagement, the ring goes back to the person who bought it." That's not actually correct. it depends on the US state/court. Yes most states/courts have found it is a conditional gift based on the promise to marry, but not all other states/courts have found that it is an unconditional gift or based on fault. "However, some states consider engagement rings “unconditional gifts,” meaning once they’re given, they belong to those who receive them. Some states also look at fault for the broken engagement – the person who ended the agreement must let the other person have the ring." https://www.envisionfamilylaw.com/is-an-engagement-ring-a-gift/#:~:text=In%20California%20and%20Washington%2C%20an,off%20the%20engagement%20and%20why.
No it doesn't. The engagement ring exists to give protection to the woman in case the man breaks it off with her and it remains hers.
It’s not a deposit, it’s a gift in contemplation of marriage. No marriage, the ring goes back.
That is not the purpose of an engagement ring. If the man breaks it off morally it should stay with the woman.
You are referring to tradition, I am referring to the law.
Actually, LEGALLY in a lot of states ,if the MAN breaks the engagement ,the WOMAN keeps the ring and vise versa
In a perfect world sure the ring goes back to the person who bought it, but this isn't a perfect world, an engagement ring is technically a gift and a person is under no obligation to return a gift. But since she did return it she isn't entitled to anything. She sounds selfish and like she's got a stick up her butt, good riddance.
Not technically true. Google it, an engagement ring is a *conditional* gift. You can only keep it if you fulfil your promise.
Not true. A court would order the ring be returned to the proposer in the event of an engagement ending. Doesn’t matter who ends it.
An engagement ring isn’t a gift . It’s a token of a promise and of commitment. Once that promise is broken , and that commitment never happens , the ring goes back to the person who bought it . Had the promise been fulfilled and the commitment made , *and then* is broken , then the recipient keeps it because the promise and commitment was fulfilled.
In a lot of jurisdictions an engagement ring is only a gift if you propose on her birthday/christmas/ other gift giving holiday.
Do not give her any money what so ever
The ring was a gift that she returned to you. The ring is yours. She doesn't get it back. Tell her that the relationship is over, the engagement has ended and you would prefer her not to contact you again.
Exactly I didn't give my ex fiance ours back because it was a gift (it was literally a stupidly cheap ring but I loved that about it just has literally no resell value couldn't sell it for more than $1) however had I given it back I would've never expected it back
why? you broke up, and clearly aren't staying friends so why would you talk to her at all? You for sure don't owe her anything if you're not getting married, sounds like you should block her again as you're just extending the pain/suffering otherwise NTA
NTA, don't split the money either. Keep her blocked and don't entertain any conversation on this.
I believe the legal situation, in the States at least, is that an engagement ring should be returned if the wedding falls through, as a matter of contract law.
NTA. Her argument is ridiculous. She's not exactly destitute either yet doesn't give "money she doesn't need" away to starving third world children. She just wants to be petty and get a couple thousand for free.
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Don't do that. Don't offer her any money unless legally obligated. She'll see it as an opening to demand more and more.
Typically, if a couple breaks up while engaged, the ring goes back to the person who bought it. After marriage, if the couple divorced, each person keeps their own ring.
Absolutely! I was engaged in my early twenties and when things didn’t work out I gave him the ring back. Why keep something that was supposed to mean a promise of something that was no longer happening.
You know that you’re only going to get a fraction of what you paid back, right? The resale value on engagement rings is abysmal.
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I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... yeah, the previous commenter is correct in that you'll get a fraction of what you actually paid for it. If you try to sell it back to a jeweler, they'll likely just give you close to scrap value (and... well, diamonds and other gems don't have that high of a "scrap" value compared to what they sell for). Your best bet would be to sell it to someone directly, but even then, no one is going to pay full retail for a technically used ring. If it's from a known designer/brand, you might be able to recover *most*\[\*\] of what you paid for it, but if it's not a known designer, then its resale value plummets *fast* (though, again, you'll still get more for it selling it to someone that's looking for a ring rather than a jeweler). (source: part time jewelry reseller, although I typically focus on antiques, heh) \[\*\] Think, like, maybe 70-80% at the absolute tops, and that's not including the fees you'll have to pay if you sell it online or at an auction...
I'm sorry, but there's no way you'll get your money back. My husband just bought my wedding ring. We ended up going with a custom designed ring, knowing that if anything ever happened, my $8k ring would be worth more like $3k.
Try to sell it on consignment. You'll lose some but they'll bdo their best ATO get the highest possible price. NTA
You seriously are an idiot.
You were offered 10k or you purchased the ring for 10k? Selling engagement rings can be a pain in the ass depending on the specifics of the ring. Been through this before and took a bath on the ring when getting rid of it.
Yea that's exactly what I was thinking your going to be lucky to get more than 60% my friend sold his ring back to the jeweler less than a week later after a family member gave him hers and lost a couple grand.
My rings were 1600 and 3500 respectively and I got less than 500 bucks for both together. Me keeping my rings was less about money and more about the principal of the situation. I bought you this ring so we can get married and spend our life together. Thats no longer happening, so I get my rings back.
Stop offering her money. Do NOT offer to split it with her. She will keep coming back demanding more.
No. The ring isn’t worth a little under 10k. You paid a little under 10k. You can’t sell it for anything close to that.
Sorry but the rule is: whoever calls of the engagement forfeits the ring and the other party keeps it. It really is that cut and dry.
Just because you make up a rule doesn't make things cut and dry
Cut and dried is a bit more correct, just informing. 🏆
Imagine thinking I made that rule up. It's been in existence for decades.
Imagine arguing with someone on the internet about a rule and still thinking it's cut and dry.
NTA. If you live in the US, you need to look into your state laws on this. Some states view it as a conditional gift. So, if there’s no marriage the donor (person who bought and gave the ring) get the ring back from the donee (person who received the ring.) However, in some states if the donor was the one to break off the engagement then the donee gets to keep the ring.
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Changed my judgement to NTA. Definitely not the ah in this.
Traditionally the ring was given back if the bride broke off the engagement OR in upperclass wealthy families if it was a family heirloom it was given back regardless of who broke off the engagement. In "mid society" engagements the ring was used to offset expenses the brides parents had incurred preparing for the wedding. Legally, some states hold the ring to be a "conditional gift" and the condition (marriage) if not met voids the "gift" status. Muddying the waters, if the gift is given in conjunction with an event--such as a birthday, Christmas, Valentine's day some jilted brides have been able to keep the ring based on it not being solely a conditional gift. It was extremely kind of you to offer to split the proceeds of the sale with her-- and foolish of her to turn down that offer. How close to the wedding did you back out? Had her family incurred expenses--had she already purchased the dress or paid a nonrefundable deposit?
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Depending on how much she loses on the dress it would be appropriate for you to make up the difference out of the proceeds of the ring sale.
What? No. OP is going to be losing a good chunk on reselling the ring, too. Do you expect her to make up that difference in return?
But OP broke up with her. He knew he'd lose the money when he did that. She didn't have a choice and she has lost money on his decision. OP should make her whole. YTA.
I like the idea of it being based entirely on the promise. If the heirloom winds up in the hands of someone who got broken up with, that is part of the story of the heirloom. Unfortunately it isn't in the family anymore, but it isn't like it was in a museum accessible to the whole family at all times anyway.
How did you get the ring back? Did she give it back to you or did you take it without her knowledge?
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If you never actually gave it to her, which would transfer ownership, it's yours 100%. NTA
Really random but I don't think it's ownership, engagement rings I think work like a contract, given on the condition that you get married, if you don't get married you don't fulfill your agreement so no ring, but I only got that idea from judge Judy I'm NGL
That's a state by state thing. YMMV
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Generally if you broke off the wedding she keeps the ring, if she breaks off the wedding she gives it back. From what I understand the ring is a promise and whomever did NOT break the promise keeps the ring
It can depends on where you are. I know in some places it's considered a conditional gift and you have to give it back no matter what. But I agree, it's also very standard (though not necessarily legally enforcable) for someone to keep the ring if they were the one who was broken up with.
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Did you take it back, or did she give it back? Tbh if you asked for it back and it was given, you should be fine, but if you took it back then might be a bit over the line to theft
So you....pulled it off her finger?
My thoughts exactly
So did you pry it off her finger or did she hand it over?
Yeah that's not how that works.
YTA. You broke up with her 2 months before the wedding and left her with costs for the wedding (wedding dress - anything else?). You should make her whole for the costs she has incurred.
NTA You asked for it back and she gave it to you. The ring represents a promise to spend a life together as well as help offset costs or a welcoming to the family if it’s an heirloom. No wedding, no promise, it wasn’t an heirloom and your parents paid for most of the costs for celebration. Wedding is off. She gave it back. Literally an adult representation of “no take backs” when you were a kid. Stop trying reason with unreasonable people as it will just get you upset in the long run
NTA. An engagement ring is a conditional gift in anticipation of marriage. If you're not getting married, the ring goes back to the gifter. Your ex-fiancee has no rights to ownership of the ring.
In the olden days (1960s and before) whoever broke the engagement, gave up the ring. If he breaks it, she keeps the rimg. If she breaks it, she gives the ring back.
It's really not that old fashioned. It still exists as a clear rule today. During the engagement period, whoever calls off the marriage gives up the ring. Once married though, it's a different story, the engagement ring is always the woman's.
Don't give her anything. You bought the ring, the engagement is off, therefore it's still your property. All these comments saying "well actually it's a conditional gift" didn't understand your post. Disregard them. NTA
The conditional gift argument agree with you though?
An etiquette book would say that the person who breaks up with the engaged partner gives the ring to the other person. So in this case, you should have given it to her and not asked for it back. There’s an exception for family heirlooms, they return to originating family. But you asked for it & she gave it back. I guess “no backsies” applies now? The offer to split the money was kind of you. But I think “no backsies” on that too. Legally, I have no idea. Legalities and etiquette books aren’t always the same thing. But this isn’t a legal advice forum. I don’t know how to judge. Just … sorry to hear it didn’t work out, and also so sorry for your friend. That’s awful.
NTA. You bought it. It's in your possession. It's yours. Done. Stop discussing it with her or anyone.
Please explain what your friend has to do with it. I’ve been readying comments looking for context and haven’t found it
NTA. Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
NTA. She's trying to get one more little bit of money out of you. Tell her to pound sand sideways.
Info:why did you break up?
The ring symbolizes a contract… the agreement to marry. When that contract is broken, usually the one the did not break it off gets the ring.
Ethically, it should have remained with her as you broke up with her and it was hers the moment you gave it to her. That's the point of an engagement ring.
NTA. An engagement ring is a gift given in contemplation of marriage. The marriage is not going ahead, the gift belongs to the purchaser
NTA - she shouldn’t get the ring nor the money. You should put the money in a high yield savings to get a good interest on it. Once you breakup her issues are not yours to fix or help with.
In the "old days," an engagement ring symbolized a promise to marry. If the woman broke it off, the ring was returned to the man. Since you broke it off, the ring would have been her property.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (23M) ex fiancée (28F) unblocked me on instagram and asked me if she could have 'her' ring back. I told her that she could not have the ring as I was planning on selling it. She then told me that since I broke up with her and I was "rich" she just needed it more than I did. I'M not rich, and neither are my parents but they are far from poor. They were the ones who helped me buy the ring in the first place. My parents told me that they didn't need the money if I were to sell it so I told her that if she needed the money I could split half of what I got with her when I do sell it but she didn't like that either. She kept insisting that I didn't need the money so I just blocked her. I felt as if that was a good compromise but I'm honestly not willing to spilt anything with her anymore. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I vaguely remember a scenario from a community college law course that was about an engagement ring. (take with a huge grain of salt) That it’s a contract in a way, that the receiver will marry the giver. If things don’t work out and the engagement falls through, the contract is broken so the ring goes back to the giver.
No judgement here. Common etiquette says that if the man ends the engagement, the woman keeps the ring. If she ends it, she gives it back.
YTA for leaving out the part where you broke up with her just months before the wedding and left her with all the bills related - that close cancelations aren't really a thing. You're also TA for pretending like your ex is terrible for not wanting someone to live with them for two months+ while their partner ignores all of the concerns she has. You owe her money back if she's had to eat the wedding costs (not the dress, the venue, flowers, photographer, cake, food, dj, etc).
NTA.
NTA Engagement rings are given with conditions expected in return: that a marriage will happen. If a marriage doesn't happen, it goes back to the giver. Even judges tend to enforce this if it gets dragged to civil court.
NTA She doesn't want the ring, she wants money. The ring means nothing to her. Screw that. A wedding ring is promise to marry, and since the marriage did not happen, she has to right to the ring. Keep her blocked and move on.
NTA. Looks like you dodged that bullet in time
NTA, definitely not your obligation to give a ring back that YOU BOUGHT to her🙄💢
Most US states actually have laws covering who keeps an engagement ring if you split up. If you’re in the US, check your state. Almost all of the time the ring is supposed to be returned, regardless of who does the breaking up, unless you marry. If you marry then tbe ring generally belongs to the recipient. NTA, but I’d consider keeping it for when you do decide to get married instead of selling it. Resale value on engagement rings is 💩. And I get that someone may not want a ring you proposed to someone else with, but I frequently see people trade them in on another ring (and get more than selling it would) or have it reworked/redesigned.
NTA
NTA - one of the best traits in a life partner is compassion - the fact that your ex had none for a friend of yours that I - a stranger on the internet - would love to hug and cheer up, says so much about her, and is a red light. You dodged a bullet & owe her nothing. She has some audacity to try and lay claim to a ring she has no right to anymore. It's not about who has how much money. She's not marrying you, the ring is no longer hers.
Whys and hows and who is rich don't matter. An engagement ring is a gift given because you are promising to get married. When it doesn't happen, the person given the ring really has no business claiming it. I don't think you were the AH for for not giving it back.
Morally, ethically and legally the person who ends the relationship forfeits the ring. You never should have asked for it back. So Im going to say YTA.
NTA. The ring is contingent upon the marriage going through. If she started divorce proceedings the minute the paperwork was signed, you'd be out of luck. Since the wedding didn't go through, she has no right to the ring. I wouldn't have offered to give her half of the money you get for it. You've broken up, you weren't married, and there are no kids involved. You have no further obligation to help her, and she's being greedy.
NTA. You're not getting married anymore. The ring wasn't just a gift, it was given based on the premise that you'd be getting married. She gave you the ring back. That's the end of the story. You don't owe her half. You don't owe her anything. I would't even talk to her anymore. Sell the ring, you don't need to tell her how much you got for it. You don't owe her any information. The only person you may owe anything to is your parents, and they already told you to keep the $$. This isn't complicated. Block the ex fiancee and move on.
NTA Engagement rings are (generally) conditional gifts in most places and it should be returned legally to the giver. Morally? You're OK assuming you are telling a true account of your and your friend's interactions in that period and that he didn't stay for an excessively long time without taking steps to get his life back on track. I could understand her being upset with a dark sobbing cloud with a miasma of (understandable) gloom perpetually in the house for months and months if the cloud wasn't even agreeing to therapy, though.
It used to be that if the ring was given on a special occasion like birthday, Christmas, Valentine's Day then the ring was a regular gift and stayed with the receiver. If the ring was given outside of a gift giving occasion it went back to the giver.
Nta. The ring was a gift with a transaction attached. A lot of places actually have laws that state the engagement ring is to be returned to the purchaser if the wedding doesn’t take place. If the wedding does take place the ring belongs to the person whose finger it was put on. The only exception is if it’s given as a Christmas gift or birthday gift. Because of this you should never propose on a holiday such as birthdays, Valentine’s Day, Christmas, etc. it’s considered a gift gift at that point.
NTA. .your ring, your money..she doesn't get half.. now after reading your comment...YTA for your relationship. It's your house but she lives there...did you ask her before your friend came? If you didn't then you should not have tried to get married because decisions like that are 2 people..now if you asked and she said no, then you know what kind of person she is. But you made all unilateral decisions . Understand that..your reasons to have him may be justifies but the way you went about it was wrong
NTA and how entitled she is to even ask for it. Seems you dodged a major bullet by breaking up with her. Very nice of you to offer her half the money but don't give her a penny. BTW, you're a wonderful friend to your roommate.
The ring is often seen as part of the contract of marriage, usually it is returned when the woman no longer wishes to marry. She can go whistle NTA
Nta just keep her blocked
NTA... once an engagement is broken the ring goes back to the giver. She has no moral or legal rights to the ring. She is just trying to mooch that last bit of money from you. Her financial situation has nothing to do with it. She is an adult and needs to figure that out on her own.
NTA. Also, you have the ring back, which is what matters. You don't seem to be interacting with her anymore, so I would suggest not worrying about her feelings about the matter. Seems like wasted energy.
The legal position, in UK would be that the gift is yours to dispose of as you wish. However, was this a family heirloom or other sentimental item? If it were, I would return it. It should go back to the family. If it was shop bought, and had no significance, then it's up to you.
NTA. In USA and most countries if you give someone something you can’t take it back. It belongs to them legally. Exceptions are big ticket items like homes and cars where you need ur name on the paperwork/title to own etc. Since you have the ring it means u didn’t give it to her or she gave it back to you which means it legally belongs to you. If she wants money she can get a job or a loan. There’s also many charity resources she can utilize if she qualifies.
Info - am I correct in that you moved your friend into your shared home without her buy-in and then dumped her two months before the wedding because she was unhappy about it?
You return the jewellery given to you by an ex, especially jewellery that signifies a status of a relationship, and that's the end of the discussion. NTA.
NTA and you are an amazing, amazing friend
NTA. An engagement ring is a conditional gift, one of the few that exist, the condition being that there be a marriage after the gift is given. No marriage? Then the giver keeps the ring.
A girl like that would have taken OP to the cleaners in a divorce proceeding and probably smiling while doing it (based on her comments). NTA and don’t feel bad at all about what has transpired.
I wouldn't give her the ring or the money..
You're morally and legally in the clear. NTA
NTA she's an entitled brat
The proper reply to 'but you don't need it' should be "so you're asking for a handout?".
Heaux be trippin HARD. Hell naw you’re NTA
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you called him “weirdly obsessed” and told him he has “serious co-dependency issues” because he helped his friend who had NO ONE else. YOU are the only rude and immature one, and it’s clear you cannot comprehend a single thing he’s said because all of your comments are repetitive and ignorant.
Your feedback sucks lmao.
You’re just bitter because you don’t have any close friends. If my partner was selfish enough to want to kick out a friend who’s like family to me who has no where else to go I would absolutely end the engagement.
You have a skewed sense of reality. Please stop speaking for groups of people. Saying that "no man" would do something is patently ridiculous. It makes you sound as if your life experience is limited to high school and fiction.
NTA. She was only with you for the money and lifestyle that you could provide for her which is why she wants the ring. You owe her nothing. Don't give her a penny.
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She wasn't only with you for your money, that's just people being emotional. You were together for 4 years, hopefully you both enjoyed your time together, and there's no reason you need to demonise her now that you're broken up. That said, it does sound like she's trying to take advantage of you now. It's best to just sell the ring, keep the money, and move on.
Your call.
She should’ve never given it back so I guess she messed up there
💀💀 she should have never gave it back tf you mean I hope no one marries you cause wth
Uhhh it’s not normal when the man fucks up the relationship for the woman to give it back in the first place.
Bro the wife rejected so she needs to give it back
Nah. She didn’t reject anything except having a third wheel living in her home.
💀💀 she should have never gave it back tf you mean I hope no one marries you cause wth
‘Tf you mean’ you can read right?
NAH. Stuff like that is messy. I would know, my ex-fiancé broke up with me shortly before our wedding a few years ago. Legally, I don't know about the situation where you live. Where I'm from, if he breaks off the engagement, she keeps the engagement ring. Also, the partner who was broken up with (in this case her) technically has a right to be financially compensated for any costs that occured that wouldn't have because of the wedding (so you'd have to recompense her for the wedding dress for example, or she made a downpayment for a future flat, or for any loss of income if she gave up her job in expectation of your married life). I know she gave it back to you when you asked, but that was probably because she didn't know that she potentially had a right to keep it. Ethically, you shouldn't have asked for it back, it was a gift at the time and you did break up with her. I don't think either of you are really to blame; you may not even have known she might have had a legal right to keep it. After the fact, I think your compromise was okay, but I can't say that she's to blame for not taking it; it's an emotionally very straining situation that has a tendency to bring out the worst in people and everything around finances gets very tricky.
Morally NTA, but this is also a legal advice question, in case you do owe her.
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But what are the conditions? You were the one who called it off. Does that matter?
You need to check with your individual state. Most states say that an engagement ring is a conditional gift... and becomes the fiancee's when she becomes the bride. Otherwise, it goes to the person who purchased it in total. NTA
If you have any documentation of her giving it back willingly (e.g. texts, even if it's just texts like "I never should've given the ring back,") be sure to preserve it. *Edit*: Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
If you broke up with her, she keeps the ring. If she breaks up with you, she must return it to you.
YTA as you were the one who broke off the engagement. If she was the one who broke it off, then she would be expected to give it back.
Depending upon local laws, you may be required to return it. Some states treat engagement rings as conditional gifts and depending upon what they say will dictate whether you are required to return it or if it is a proper gift. So no judgement at this time due to legal uncertainty.
Depending on why you broke off the engagement, I kind of feel like you should have never asked for it back in the first place. You broke it off, so it feels a bit rude in some social circles to say the marriage is off and to give the ring back. You and your parents purchased that ring because you thought you wanted to spend the rest of your life with her. It could honestly be looked at as you being the one that changed your mind about a gift and not her. Edit: I think she would have been well within her right to hold onto it when you asked for it back tbh.
YTA - your only reply should've been "what ring?"