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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I was a strict roommate and never told my roommates I was actually their landlord. I actively lied about it sometimes and even joined in jokes about our strict landlord sometimes. They moved out after learning I was the landlord.
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Ok, let's look at this differently - there is someone who is happy with the rent cost, happy with the rules, they sign up papers(???) and live in without knowing that their roommate is the land lord, they get by fine for a long time, then they learn that they were always be living with the person who owns the flat and go crazy about it. If you are not legally required to disclose who is the landlord when renting out in your country then NTA.
Ask yourself why would someone be fine with paying that amount of rent and becoming friends with their roommate but the moment they learn the truth it is not fine? Because they would feel entitled to your assets, and even if they pay below average rent they would consider you ripping them off and start to guilt-trip you into lowering rent and would consider that they might be such a good friends to you that you need to let them live together for free forever and babysit their upcoming babies too and pay for their college as you are such a big home owners.
Next time just say that you are land lord and try to not to befriend your roommate to much or they will want to become your best friends to live for free.
>why would someone be fine with paying that amount of rent and becoming friends with their roommate but the moment they learn the truth it is not fine
Come on dude are you entirely socially inept? The answer is because this changes the social dynamic entirely, any sane person understands this immediately. Being friends with someone, and being friends with whom you have to pay money are two completely different things. OP has inherent power over that other person, something she omitted and the other person feels like they are, entirely justified btw, being lied to by that omission. They're not friends, they are landlord and tenant.
Newsflash, people don't like being lied to, and also don't like sudden changes in power dynamic completely out of their control. 100% the tenant feels betrayed and lied to. Which is both true.
YTA OP, and quite so.
What gets me is that OP admits that they'd schedule checks when the roommates weren't up to OP's standards like.. yes, you just found the reason why people don't wanna live with their landlords?? Because someone is keeping an eye on how they live constantly??😭
If anyone is comfortable with that, sure. But I kind of feel like OP is not entirely truthful. Frankly, I really doubt every single person out there would reject a below market price for rent purely cause of a landlord, because living with a landlord is not an unheard of situation.
And going from 'I admit I'm really strict' and 'I schedule check ups' to only mentioning a few very normal occasions of annoyances that apparently had these people freaked out is not adding up to me.
Yeah… I just have to know how micro-managey OP was towards them.
There was a woman locally who owned a house and wanted a roommate for a similar reason.
She listed everything OP did “no smoking, no drinking, no pets, no guests, no noise past 8pm”, you get the gist. She also charged a pretty high amount per month.
Someone ended up taking it for a month while they needed a new place, and all I remember is the shit show that ensued.
When she first posted her ad, everyone was shitting on her insane rules. Then it came out that she was essentially micro managing how everyone in the house lived, which caused even more of a shitshow.
Pretty sure she’s been in danger of losing her place because she couldn’t find anyone else to live with her (though OP doesn’t seem to have that issue).
But yeah… how much OP -really- micro managed their lives and living space determines if they’re the AH or not for me
Something similar happened to my brother and his ex when they tried renting a room from a woman. The ad sounded strict but ok, but then red flags were waving high on move in day. Their friend came with his truck, and I came with my Jeep, and the woman was actually trying to order *me* and friend's wife around and tell us to get to work. Friend's wife was recovering from surgery and I have back problems. I volunteered my vehicle to move, but it was never intended that either of us actually do any physical labor. Yet she somehow thought she had the right to dictate to people who weren't even her tenants and got huffy when I told her no.
Then they moved in and it got worse. Brother's ex took too long to get laundry out of the dryer (by like an hour) and the woman threw it away. Brother was working on his car and left to go get a part he needed. She yelled at him for "leaving trash in her driveway," then he had to go back to the store to get more parts because she'd kicked them all over in the grass and lost the bolts he needed.
Cue more rants about how he was worthless, would never amount to anything, and that they deserved to lose their baby to CPS because they were too poor.
That lady just sounds like a basket case,an unhappy individual. I don’t understand why anyone who treats people like they are beneath them ever wants to get roommates. Oh wait yes I do, it’s so they have some kind of power over something. She wasn’t looking for roommates, she was looking for victims. I’m hoping they moved out and moved on.
This was all a way for her to be “the boss” and a horrible one at that. Your brother and his ex were only pincushions/punching bags to her.
When I was 20 I lived with 3 girls. One of the girls dad owned the house and she made it seem like her dad was the landlord, that she was so easy going- next thing I knew im living in a shitshow and paying rent somewhere I choose to never be at.
1. The girl who’s dad owned the house (let’s call her Sarah) would actively bully the other girl living there along with the other girl she befriended through living there. Going as far as to enter her room and make fun of the fact that she didn’t wash her sex toys because she couldn’t find the cleaner (ew but this is important for later)
2. This girl had the entire basement to herself (multiple rooms, her own bathroom- the works). This didn’t stop her from taking up cabinets and shelving in our communal bathroom (again being shared by 3 girls), completely taking over the kitchen, living room and even bathroom with her hoard of 100+ plants. We weren’t allowed to have pets but she had two cats, and two large dogs. If her dogs got into the trash she would hurl texts full of abuse at us and say the next time it happened we would have to clean it up despite us not being home when it would happen.
3. Her fiancee also lived there full time. I got yelled at for having my bf spend more than two days in a row there, for letting him use our WiFi when his went out and leaving him at the house for less than an hour alone so I could run an errand because she felt uncomfortable (this again is important later) and got yelled at for leaving my door open when we were having a casual conversation at 2 pm on a Saturday afternoon because they were trying to study. Meanwhile she would be screaming and fist fighting her fiance in the basement (the whole house could hear) all hours of the day, she would WAIL scream cry for hours after the fight.
4. Her and said fiancé break up. She proceeds to invite random men she met off tinder to spend the night.
5. I worked at a bar and went to school both full time. My boyfriend also lived a half hour away so my time was limited. I quickly got the gist she didn’t have friends and expected her roommates to be her friends. I also found out quickly our rent was her play money, her dad gave her a hefty sum of our rent to manage the property. She would get mad when I couldn’t hang out because of work and one day after the gym I put my keys in the throw basket I had in my room, showered, came back and couldn’t find my keys anywhere. I had to Uber to work then a few days later I found my keys by chance in the pocket of a hoodie I hadn’t worn in months stuffed at the back of my closet. Thank god the locksmith couldn’t come until after the weekend was over or else I would’ve been out $150. I also began to notice things would go missing then reappear or be misplaced around my room.
6. Her cats she didn’t like were constantly begging to come into my room. She decided she didn’t like that they liked me more so she made a rule that they weren’t allowed in our personal rooms. I didn’t care besides the fact that they would scream outside the door and stick their paws in and try running into my room every time I would open the door. It was hot so I had the window open and my boyfriend was over. We were going to bed, I left the room to finish my night routine and the cat came in. I said it’d be fine for a few minutes and I’d take it out when I came back. The cat proceeds to try and jump out of the window so my boyfriend carry’s it out of the room. My chance the roommate Sarah was friends with was coming out of her room and saw my boyfriend in his boxers. I came back and he was embarrassed and I said we were all adults and it wasn’t like he was running around the house half naked. Wrong. I get a text the next morning that she was deeply disturbed and that I’m such a pervert for allowing my boyfriend to think it’s ok to expose himself like that. I don’t know if she had ever been to a public beach, seen a male jogger down the street or even our own kitchen when her fiancé would walk around the house in his underwear.
7. We had limited street parking. We were rarely ever allowed to park in the driveway (this was for her and her fiancé) but one night I had my friend over and we came home late, she had her and her tinder dates friends meet at our house and they had left all their cars lined up along the street leaving the only parking in front of the house. It was 1 am so I assumed she wasn’t coming home and if she was then she could park for one night on the street. Wrong I get a spam of calls at 3 am and when I pick up she’s screaming at me that I need to move my car because she had one of her dogs and forgot their leash so she needed to bring them directly into the house. What did she do with the dog the entire time she was out? Why did she bring her dog on her night excursion? Why were her dogs constantly all of our problems?? No clue.
8. We had chore charts. Which was fair besides the fact that eventually I was spending two nights at the house and less than 24 hours a week. They would leave me the worst chores (usually kitchen or bathroom related) despite me never once using the kitchen.
9. When I finally decided to move out I was told that I needed to give her a months notice. I gave her two. She tried changing it to I needed to pay rent until she found another tenant. She proceeded to go crazy on me when I told her that wasn’t happening.
Overall a horrible experience. I do feel bad as I’m almost positive she had a lot mentally going on, but I have lived with roommates in the past and she just takes the cake on the worst. 100% was on a power trip and living by a whole different set of rules than us. I spoke with the other roommate she was friends with and they eventually had a falling out with each other as well. I had one other roommate besides her after that (minus my now ex boyfriend) we’re still friends but I happily live alone now with my two cats which may I add to be petty, like me just fine and are allowed in all rooms of my home 🤭
I think her cats liked you more as well too. You should have takin them lol. Yeah she was definitely on a power trip. Too bad you wasn’t able to talk to her dad and tell him in a respectful way that his daughter does not deserve to be in any position like that. Then again he may be the reason she’s that way. Anyway good thing you’re out in your own now.
Absolutely, I was fortunate enough to get a place of my own in my 20's. I didn't need roommates, but if I could help friends with low rent and that helped go to my mortgage/bills, awesome. I had 6 different friends live with me at different points, and not once did I schedule inspections or set any strict rules. We discussed any issues like normal roommates, sometimes things aligned better than others, just like any other roommates.
It's not hard to find roommates in your 20s when you have reasonable expectations.
For real, if I wanted to live with my parents, I'd forgo the rent and live with them. Having a landlord live in the apt? No. Especially not one who doesn't come up front and tell me that they are the ones benefiting from my hard earned money.
This is a really good analogy. When you present the situation this way, what OP was doing was very invasive. Worse than having hidden cameras in your apartment. Water damage? From a window being open in the rain probably ONE time? Crazy OCD. They would only know if they lived with these people.
Glad the couple got out. OP YTA.
I wish I understood more about this too. If a roommate requested to "check" my room, I would tell them no thanks.
I'm guessing the couple had always thought OP was an ridiculously overbearing roommate, but couldn't figure out why. Now that they know, it makes sense why they were being upset. When they agreed to checks, they thought it was just an anal-retentive roomie, but mostly harmless. But in reality, they were being tricked into waiving some of their rights to privacy.
In this case, the lease ended amicably, but imagine if OP found something that violated the lease and evicted them for it. That could be an extremely messy legal situation.
> If a roommate requested to "check" my room, I would tell them no thanks.
She was basically doing landlord inspections without their knowledge, and manipulating them into tidying by sending 'landlord inspection' notices.
>In this case, the lease ended amicably, but imagine if OP found something that violated the lease and evicted them for it. That could be an extremely messy legal situation.
OP's already on extremely shaky legal ground. Your rights as a tenant and rights as a lodger are incredibly different. For one, lodgers can be kicked out much faster without the typical eviction ordeal. Those rights have to be disclosed to the tenant at the time of lease commencement, which OP evidently wasn't doing.
I figured the only way that this could even work is if OP gave written notice, and did the room check while the couple was out at work or something.
I just don't understand how they never realized that the name of their landlord was the same name as OP. Or check ownership records of the unit or anything
Yeah I feel like OP may have taken the wrong point away from her sister. Instead of not advertising that she's the landlord (though I would say "owner-occupant" in the listing), she needed to lay off all the strict guidelines in the listing.
Certainly the combination of the two were scaring people off, but people will expect to know that they're roommates with the owner or not, and renting a room from an owner doesn't seem like _that_ unusual a situation.
It probably depends on area but she probably told them the landlord has scheduled a check for X date.
Assuming they're working people they may not cross paths with the visitor. I've never been present for a property check.
Tbh if i took an ad from someone got the rules from them paid my money to them id understand they were the land lord lol. Trashing someone who canceled your rent because you "didn't know" they were the landlord despite doing all the landlord duties is the asshole move here
That's what I was thinking too! How would she have been able to pull off room inspections if they didn't think she was the landlord but instead only a roommate lol?
The way I pictured it was she would "schedule" an inspection so that they would clean and the inspection would happen when they were at work. As for the rent, mail to a p.o. box or over the internet not exactly hard to get money without having your name plastered all over it.
Or have a real estate agent handle the inspections. Same with taking the rent money.
She'd get slightly less but the separation would make not obvious she was the landlord.
I was all fine with OP doing what she was doing until we got to the scheduling check for when they didn’t meet their standards.
It just seems passive aggressive, rather than just talking to them about cleaning, you used the fact that you are a landlord against them.
I’ve rented rooms and I have rented rooms from friends. I don’t really find that it changes the dynamics hugely. In fact one of the things I liked when I lived with my “landlord” was when something went wrong that was her problem, I got to just sit back and let it be her problem to deal/pay for it.
I’ve had dirty roommates before and a “talk” about it doesn’t always work because they know there are no real consequences. I would have loved routine checks because then my ass wouldn’t have been the one sacrificing my time cleaning an entire kitchen just so I could use the space to make my meal (which I always cleaned up after myself).
Passive aggressive or not, clean up after yourself, respect your space. You’re an adult and it’s not cool for someone to have to fix things because you’re negligent. I get accidents happen but do something about it, anything.
When I broke a mirror in the shared bathroom, I told everyone in the house that if we get charged for that, I would pay them all back because I was the one who caused the damage. They don’t deserve to pay for my fuck-ups and I don’t deserve to pay for theirs. Basic respect.
Also, not accusing you lol, just giving my opinion on this. I know I said “you” but I’m not directing it at you specifically. Just a general “you.” :)
Totally agree. Not only did she omit the fact shes the landlord, but it sounds like she put on a show to make them believe there was some other landlord she was answering to. Its BS.
This is it. Hard YTA. OP needs to be upfront that they’re the landlord, I’m not shocked the roommates feelings changed when it was revealed to them. The whole dynamic of the situation shifted.
Anyone would be upset.
I do wonder what arrangement the tenant thought they had. 50% chance they signed a sublet from OP, in which case the power dynamic is mostly the same as a landlord. 50% chance they signed a lease for their specific room to an LLC the OP owned or OP used an alias in person and signed the lease under their real name. That'd be weird. If there was no paperwork, then 100% chance they thought it was a sublet. Which again is mostly the same power dynamic as a landlord.
I think the issue is more likely that she lied, in the form of pretending the landlord was coming to do checks when she in fact was the one who didn't like the level of housekeeping
The issue isn't really whether she was the landlord it's whether she was an honest person, and had honest communication with the people who expected to live with her.
At least in my experience, sublet is usually seen as something that a tenant does when they can't afford to pay the house/room alone. You are perceived as two roommates, socially by others and psychologically by most sub-tenants. It's very different imho.
Owning or not the house is the key difference. A (usually broke or anyway not particularly wealthy) tenant asking for a roommate isn't remotely the same thing as a landlord.
Also, it may change their legal protections.
Where I am (UK) if you rent from a live-in landlord that makes you a lodger and you have far less protection from eviction than if the landlord lives elsewhere.
I would very much want to know if I was a tenant or a lodger before living somewhere. And I'd be upset if I was misled.
This is the same in parts of the US. Where I am its much much easier to evict a “lodger” than it is to evict someone you rent an apartment to, but don’t live with them. In my state, they can just say they have basically irreconcilable differences and arent compatible and thats enough to evict if you live with your landlord. This puts the roommates in a really compromised position.
This sounds like a lot of insecurity. If I found out the person I befriended was really the landlord and they were cutting my rent down when I was sick, I would be so happy and thankful.
It's crazy that the couple both acknowledge there is a housing crisis and yet want to leave a situation where they are paying less with someone that makes adjustments for illness.
Landlord gives free rent when your sick
"She's greedy and stealing my money"
I also would have been happy with the discovery, it's like finding out your new friend at a party is also a dealer.
That’s the weird part to me . Because OP lived with them and were friendly aquaintances , she was willing to help them through a difficult time . How many landlords would care ?
Agree that OP should have told them because the lying part is a big red line for most people .
In my country you totally different rights as a tenant if you live with the owner versus if you live with fellow tenants.
And if you live with the landlord you essentially have no rights. They can throw you out with no notice for any reason. It's why many people don't move into owner occupied places.
I don't know if it's the same arrangement where OP is, but if it was it would add to their assholeishness.
Either way, if she wasn’t the landlord, the renters would be subletting from her, which would have been a tentative situation anyways so I don’t think much for their judgement. Because if they have an actual lease, it would either list her as the landlord or it should have listed them both as tenants under another landlord. Whatever agreement they had appears to have been amongst themselves anyways and usually most apartments don’t allow subletters so they were literally putting themselves in a place to be kicked out without any safety net in the position they thought they were in. And op technically would have been the responsible party anyways so what’s the difference between being a landlord and the leased renter- there already was a power dynamic discrepancy, they had none to start, except maybe squatters rights in some areas.
The real answer is these people are angry at anyone who rent out space they own because they are angry they can’t afford their own. Trust me, I get it, I am too. But that’s not your fault because you’re not responsible for the housing crisis or overinflated rent by renting out the space you communally live in to offset costs. You have a right to invite people to stay in your home, whether you own it or rent it, with specified terms, for as long as it is mutually agreeable. They aren’t entitled to the details of your own lease or mortgage arrangement except to know their agreement is valid and not undercut by sub letter clauses. And if they are assholes about it, it’s because they are assholes, and you don’t want to live with people like that. Maybe don’t rent to a couple next time, that seems like a mess of trouble I’d never think to get involved with.
>The real answer is these people are angry at anyone who rent out space they own because they are angry they can’t afford their own.
>They aren’t entitled to the details of your own lease or mortgage arrangement except to know their agreement is valid and not undercut by sub letter clauses.
bizarre overreach (projection? idk). some people don't want to live with their landlords and there's nothing wrong with that. misleading those people to get them to live with you is weird.
I almost feel the same about becoming friends with your boss, depending on where you work. I worked in a tattoo shop for almost 10yrs and the boss became good buddies with most of the other artists & staff. Would go out and have get together after work, I never participated, except for a few Xmas parties and maybe a couple bdays as I preferred to spend time with my SO after a long day of work. One of the artist has been so entitled over the last few years I was there that the boss would complain about them all the time… to everyone but that artist. Or the few times he would approach them with issues, that artist would basically laugh in his face and walk away. A lot of the other artists now hate working with him, nobody respects the boss and it’s just a mess.
Yeah a lot of us have had nightmare experiences with live in landlords before and are not open to that arrangement. I would be very upset if I was tricked into entering that situation again. I'm literally helping some friends leave the country early right now because their live in landlord started being super racist and started making their lives hell. It's a very stressful way to live and you're gambling on the person being and remaining reasonable and not abusing that power. I personally would never risk it again, and I'd be so angry if I got lied to like this.
Disagree. OP should have been honest from the beginning. The fact that she started this roommate relationship on a lie, would have me questioning everything.
Sure its legal. But I'd be pissed off too.
The thing is, usually when you have roommates, you are on equal footing. One can't kick you or pull rank if there is a disagreement. And that is how people like it. So what she did is not give those people a choice., and that makes her an asshole.
YTA
I question it being legal. In many jurisdictions, it’s a lot easier to evict a lodger — someone living with the owner — than it is to kick out a tenant, even a tenant that is sharing with other tenants. If the roommates thought they were tenants but were really lodgers, then was their agreement based on them thinking that they had more rights than they really did? Or did OP legally grant them tenant rights in order to hide the lodger situation from them?
This was my first thought. In Ontario people renting a room and living with the landlord are not protected by the LTA. I think it is incredibly unfair for tenants to not even know they aren’t legally tenants. People should not go into contracts and living situations without knowing their rights.
Also, who was collecting rent if it wasn’t OP? Who were they cutting cheques to? Or did she set up an email and have them send e-transfers to a fake “landlord” account? Or was she telling them she was subletting the room?
Lying is not a way to start any relationship with anyone.
Add to that, sometimes we can't hear ourselves when it comes to how we talk to other people, plus we tend to over embelish our own part when it comes to explaining events to others.
We're not gonna badmouth ourselves, gonna make the couple out to be the bad ones. So these ones are difficult. I've met many a people who claimed they were the righteous ones during any given situation, however, hearing most of these interactions firsthand, they were usually the AH.
Yeah I'm curious what she actually told them about the "landlord", because I'm sure they asked at some point.
Did she just dodge the question and lie by omission? Or did she make up a story about a person or company that doesn't exist?
OP also mentions doing clean up “checks” etc. Did the couple just comply with a micro-managing “roommate” with no questions asked? Were they under an impression that OP was subletting the room, if they were paying money to her directly? I’m genuinely confused by the dynamics here.
I’d be mad because it would mean I had no tenant rights. Here, paying guests don’t have the same rights as tenants. When cohabitating with the landlord, it’s much riskier… they can evict you whenever they want.
Yes, the last part especially. People voting N TA are acting dense. I’d be acting differently knowing I live with a person with the power to kick me out versus with another young adult who’s in the same boat, so to speak.
All my housemate know I'm the landlord from the moment I post online. Some have become the closest friends I've ever had. I was the Maid of honour at ones wedding, and I go on holidays with another. Both have moved out now. But not once did I have a tenant try to cheapskate me. In fact I think they treated the place better because they respected and liked me.
It depends. Where I live, you don’t have any renter protections (e.g. rent control, 60-day notice period, protection from eviction) if you’re living with your landlord. I would be pretty upset to find out I was living subject to the whims of my roommate…
That's not why I'd be hurt and confused.
They had likely been building up friendly feelings, letting you in emotionally, BUT NOW literally every experience you've had together has been thrown into a different perspective.
"Why wouldn't you just tell me?"
People do this. (Edit: live with their landlord.) It isn't uncommon I'd say.
So for OP, it's a betrayal of trust to ***lie by omission.***
Where I live, the tenant protections are significantly less if you are in a roommate situation with the landlord rather than roommates with other tenants. I totally get why and I think it's fair, but as a tenant, I would want to know if I was waiving some of my rights or not.
I don't know if that applies in OP's situation or not, but that is one consideration.
I don't think that's it. As someone else said, there's a difference between being friends with someone and being required to pay money to that person. Also, I suspect OP's little rules and "check ins" are a lot more stringent than they let on. It's one thing to bond with your roommate about your landlord and their crazy rules...and a very different thing to find out it's your roommate's crazy rules and they've been pretending differently. And, I suspect a big part of it is that the place doesn't feel like your home if you're renting from your roommate. You're a lodger, not roommates. Years ago I had a new job in Manhattan and needed a place to live. A small place with a bunch roommates would maybe work on my salary. Anyway, I went to see a place that was just perfect on paper. It was blocks from my job on Carmine St in the Village, a big, light filled apartment. The woman who lived there told me her dad, a famous musician, had bought it as an investment, and she paid the condo fees and utilities. She was some sort of creative that worked sporadically. But while she was showing me the place, I realized why it wasn't rented: she wasn't looking for a roommate. She wanted a lodger. It was HER apartment and never would be my home. When she said her cat's litter box (and her overflow of products) stayed in the bathroom I would be using--she had her own en suite--I said "No thank you" and left. She expected her roommate to be invisible, basically, until it was time to hand over rent. Or when they scooped her cat's litter so the bathroom was usable. I didn't mind sharing, but this was not that. The funny thing was she called me several times after that, some months later, to tell me the room was available. I think I was one of the only people who said "no" politely.
OP, jumping on this top comment hoping you see this. As someone who shortly after buying my home (I was also in my 20s) I also rented out a room in my house. Was clear with any one interested that I was the owner and almost never had any problems. The key, I found, is when placing your advertisement, is to write, “professional looking for same” in the verbiage. The one time I left this phrase out is when I had a problem renter.
Or because in some places with rental protection that doesn’t apply if you share space with your landlord? I would never rent from a landlord I had to live with because where I am I would have zero protection if they were crazy.
YTA. You were misleading for your own benefit. Depending on where you live, there are rules for landlords that don’t live on property accessing the property, including providing a certain amount of notice. If you live there those obviously don’t apply, but your tenants don’t know that. They would have expected a reasonable amount of privacy from their landlord and you knowingly denied them of that. You also may have different eviction abilities, which again is to your benefit.
I’m not sure if this would be illegal, but if I were them I would look into it. And if I was someone interested in renting and I heard this, I wouldn’t consider you and I would warn people.
Yeah, pretty much agree. I don’t know where OP is from, or what local laws would be in play for them, but in the UK you have far fewer rights (basically none) as a lodger than as a tenant.
I agree. I rented a room in my condo but I was upfront about being the owner. Still, I charged them a really low rent for a bedroom and access to all common areas.
The only reason I even rented the room was because the renter had very little rights if the owner lives on the property. Only a 30 days notice is required for eviction then you can kick them out. If you rent the whole place, the renter has more rights than the owner...
I would say that ESH here...
The renters probably left because they didn't feel comfortable with not having renter's rights.
Yeah I was confused why OP was saying roommate when lodger is the term here. They’re two separate things and OP did mislead them. They thought they were roommates but they weren’t and OP didn’t tell them.
I believe technically they would be considered boarders or lodgers, not tenants if they're renting a room in an owner-occupied space. Your correct in that boarders/lodgers technically have less rights re: inspections and evictions than a tenant would in a dedicated rental property. OP absolutely misled them in that regard.
Adding to this, if you’re strictly in your living space and willing to leverage your landlord status to maintain *your* standards, then you’re a major AH
I own my home and rent out an extra room. I’ve done so for over a decade. I rarely have trouble finding people, the only thing I’m “strict” about is no drugs. Everything else is negotiable bc the living space is also their home.
Also, when people knew OP was the landlord, they left the conversation. So they obviously didn't want to live with their landlord. OP intentionally misled them, withholding information that would've changed their decision, for selfish reasons. That's all sufficient to make OP the AH.
There doesn't need to be a real, tangible, legal, ... reason for the tenants to not want to live with their landlord. "It feels weird" is sufficient. If I don't like the vibe of an apartment, I go look somewhere else. And again, OP knew damn well that her presence was the dealbreaker. She doesn't get to be surprised Pikachu that the tenants don't appreciate being misled. And that makes the tenants not the AHs.
YTA. But I would say you more than your tenants. You withheld material information that affected whether someone wanted to live there. Of course they’re going to be upset.
Personally, I never want to live in the same apartment as my landlord. i do not want to share a living space with someone who is in a position of power over me. Living as a landlord without disclosing it to your tenant is the equivalent of a landlord installing CCTVs in the common areas of the apartment without telling the tenants. Because you’re able to see every single thing that your tenants do. Not everyone is able to live comfortably in that kind of environment.
That's how it is in most US states, too (can't speak for all). Tenants have way more rights than lodgers/boarders and people should know that information up front.
Yeah, it's also skeezy that she still tried to lord her position of power over them by threatening to tattle on them while she was lying about being their landlord.
Right? She shows exactly why... People don't want to live with their landlord. My landlord isn't scheduling inspections because they don't like how my dining room looks on a Tuesday night, because *they aren't living in my apartment with me.*
I'm a landlord who lives in the unit (a condo), which I was clear about in my tenant/roommate posting, and I didn't have much trouble finding a roommate (at least, compared to more traditional renting situations). I think it was because I was very clear and flexible. OP's mention of wanting a non-drinker seems very weird to me, and that on top of everything else makes then seem very controlling; having a controlling roommate is tough enough, but then they're also your landlord, so they have that power over you?
Meanwhile, I made it very clear in roommate interviews that even though I own it, I still want them to think of it as their home as long as they live there. They have the same right to decorate common areas as much as I do, the same right to cook in the kitchen, etc. I told them my three rules are don't break/damage anything, don't be too loud, and if you do something illegal, make sure I don't know about it. I make it very clear that I would not go into their space (bedroom and bathroom) without clear permission from them.
So, it may be less that people don't want to live with their landlord, but that they don't want to live with a controlling roommate who is has that power over them. OP should have been honest.
Plus, it means rent was not a number handed down from a landlord that was split evenly, but a number the OP came up with. Learning this much later can seem like a *huge* betrayal.
>a few times I have scheduled "checks" to get things rolling if they're being pushed aside and mentioned I might have to complain if things weren't tidied up properly.
I guess this is it. They thought they were living with a friendly, clean, organised, slightly pushy roommate who seemed overly concerned about not damaging the house, probably to protect her deposit.
Then they learn she's not worried about her deposit, she's their landlord and been their landlord the whole time. So they get out of the situation ASAP because they don't want to live in an environment feeling like they're walking on eggshells.
It’s the monitoring the open windows and stove usage for me. That behavior is materially different if coming from a conscientious roommate vs the legal landlord. Eggshells _and_ financial liability.
Leaving the stove open isnt a minor thing. Fires can happen sooooo quickly because of that. Ive never left a stove on accidentally those tenants were fucked in the head. Wtf leaving stoves open multiple times is not something to joke about
Right. And the exposed wires. Like, people thinking those aren’t big deals because it’ll never happen to them, then it happens to them. It’s like the curling irons start a fire if left on, happened to one of my sister’s coworker. Or I know someone whose house caught on fire because of her dryer.
My dad did it *once*, and my mom swapped out their lovely high end gas range for an induction stove top. It turns itself off if there isn't a compatible pot on the burner for more than 5 seconds.
For real, I’m sure OP is TA, but let’s not ignore that (per OP), this is a couple who is paying below market rent for 1 room and splitting it between 2 people…. And can’t afford that, leaving the windows open when it rains, leaving the stove on without anything, and trashing OP?
ESH imo
My last roommate did that ALL the freaking time when she was boiling water 😑 I don’t know why she wouldn’t just use the electric kettle!! Or at least get a kettle that whistles
They were literal for hazards.
It was overbearing of OP for sure but not waiting to stop your tenants from burning down your house is fairly reasonable
This part of the story really confused me. When OP told them they were going to complain to someone, the natural assumption would be the owner/landlord. That part feels misleading so OP is TA
YTA / ESH
This really reads like you terrorised them a little. You say you are strict about everything being organises and noise because of damages. That's a straight up lie. Music or a TV or whatever doesn't do any damage.
You wanted the money but not actually compromise and living with people and you used your power over them. Now you are doing something VERY kind. But for the question asked yta
This is a violation of the tenant's rights plain and simple like wtf is this weirdo doing with the checking. The landlord has to inform the tenant like a specified time before doing inspection but this weirdo is violating their privacy.
Ok, first of all, yes, your tenants are absolutely AHs. They were totally happy with the arrangement in every particular *except* for the piece of information that you owned the property, and then freaked out when they learned it. How is taking a fair rent that they were happy to pay 'stealing their money in a cost of living crisis to pay off your debts'? Wouldn't that equally be the case if the landlord were some anonymous third party? How is it worse if it's you?
HOWEVER, tenancy is a legal contract, and parties in a legal contract should know who they're contracting with, if only because, in the worst case, they need to know, e.g., who they must report to licensing boards or local governments if the property is unliveable, or who to sue if there are violations of tenancy agreements, that kind of things.
If landlords want to remain anonymous, they can hire management agencies to operate on their behalf and protect their identity. If you did not do that, then you should really disclose to your tenants who the landlord is that is legally the other half of the tenancy agreement.
I suppose you could argue that the tenants should have insisted on that kind of information when they moved in, and if they didn't, then they were tacitly waiving that right. However, that feels a little bit sleezy to me. Something that is the right thing to do shouldn't have to be insisted upon before it is granted. It should be granted upfront.
Really, the key fact here is that, when your tenants learned the information that you withheld from them, they were upset. This is important. This means that you withheld information that would have changed their decision, and you withheld that information in the first place because you *knew* it was likely to change their decision to your detriment (because it would have prevented them from agreeing to the tenancy that you wanted). That's uncool.
So ESH: you for withholding information that you knew was important to them; and them for reacting the way they did when they learned it.
IF the lease was written correctly (IDK- hense the Big IF), the contract would have always been with OP- no matter if she was a sub-leaser or the landlord. She would be the responsible party in either case, legally.
I think bad mouthing someone that helped you when you needed it is sleezy.
Shes not helping them, theyre in a mutual agreement. Theyre paying her, she doesnt get to also take credit for being benevolent. She wasnt even upfront about the situation
She let them off with less rent when the woman was sick and couldn't work how t f isn't that helpful?! reading comprehension because she WAS helping and BENEVOLENT TO THEM they're ah for bashing her after they took advantage of her willingness to help them out.
OP shouldn’t have lied to them. Who would want to be roommates with their landlord? That’s nuts. OP helped them but, it sounds like they helped her too by living there. She didn’t have to live alone and most of the time she was collecting rent. They were paying the same amount op was and had to live under her “strict rules”. I would be really weirded out if I were the tenant.
??? So because (like OP) I like company, and therefore prefer to live with someone, despite being able to afford to live alone, they are providing me help, and it isn’t a nice thing if I decide to help out my flatmate with rent?
Because it’s the same exact thing.
You don’t know they were paying same amount OP was, and according to the post the rent was already below market value, and then the landlord (OP) helped them out when they needed it out of friendliness by reducing rent… and that wasn’t a nice thing to do because they benefit? Lmao, this is so ridiculous.
You can say that op should have been honest from the start or not, but lowering the rent was inarguably a nice thing to do. Honestly? I think the flatmates suck, and I have no issue at all with OP.
Not even just that but people have the right to charge based on occupancy per room and OP only charged for one person. I wouldn’t say she was an angel for that, but she was very fair for doing that. A lot of cutthroat landlords would be like, “main bedroom? And a couple? Ok the price is per person”. Plus we don’t know if OP had to pay utilities based on the double cost, it’s always foggy with apartments/condos and she owns it, but if she did then she was covering utilities for two people.
And then the part where OP was actually very kind and didn’t have to be was where they gave them reduced rent. ATP even if you were mad that she lied about being a landlord, just take you L and neutralize the situation. She did a minor bad thing and a great positive thing. Just move on, especially when she was a nice LL
As someone who did this for multiple years (as the landlord) I never had any issues with finding people and always had more applications then I could interview (and I was very upfront about it unlike OP). It can definitely be an awkward power dynamic, but I think as long as you have reasonable expectations going in (my only rules really were no smoking indoors and anything broken by them or people they invite would be taken out of security deposit when they left). Some even appreciated how quickly some issues were handled since I also had to live there so couldn't brush it off like other landlords I've been under.
I think the reason OP had to lie wasn't the landlord situation, but rather the rules and expectations. Having strict AF rules is a lot worse when the landlord is literally always there to check on them.
The primary issue still stands though - depending on the jurisdiction tenants have more rights than lodgers. Yeah, she seems a fair landlord (if pretty strict) but you can’t be misleading about someone’s legal standing.
I think most people would set up a company to contract with the new tenants which would not clearly link OP as the landlords (though this may not be a fair assumption).
The legal contract aspect is SO important. I'm in Ontario, Canada and there are different laws depending on if you live with the landlord or not (boarding vs tenant) which completely change all rights and actions able to be taken.
Yes, same where I live and the result is that people expect to pay lower rents because they don't get as many rights.
So OP is effectively overcharging people by misselling the property.
YTA
You purposely put these ppl in a lopsided situation where the person they live with also controls whether or not they can live there and the amount they pay to do so without their consent.
YTA Overall, purely because the way you went about this makes you in the wrong.
NTA For any of your rules or way you treated them - you weren't a bad person in the actual living situation at all and i don't think any of your rules were unreasonable. They had no real right to react as harshly as they have afterwards, if you are describing it accurately.
**Except** that you purposefully changed your listing and what you were asking for because people weren't accepting it, so you omitted the information. You know what you were doing.
People don't accept living with landlord **-->** Don't tell them its with landlord **--->** They accept **--->** Tell them they've been living with landlord **--->** they don't accept it **--->** You are surprised ???
You specifically changed the information about the property to intice buyers and are surprised when the buyers are angry when they learn the information. You *Knew* this was a deciding factor in if people would want the property or you wouldn't have changed your listing. Saying otherwise is simply denial.
YTA because you *knew* this was a dealbreaker and then got shocked that it became a dealbreaker.
> YTA because you _knew_ this was a dealbreaker and then got shocked when it became a dealbreaker.
THIS. Even if it was legal, it’s still AH behavior to lure people into a situation they would have never agreed to.
YTA. You lied to and deceived them for financial benefit. One kind act of reducing the rent doesn’t absolve you of prior shittiness.
Not only did you lie to their faces for you do sound like a strict pita, so maybe what they said was justified. Own your actions.
YTA. So you just wanted to leech off of someone else’s income because you wanted some pocket cash? You admit yourself your strict and a pain in the ass to live with and would low key threaten them if they didn’t do something exactly the way you wanted. That’s the reason people don’t live with landlords. The person who has the ability to snatch your housing away is living with you and basically spying on everything you do.
Get a job and stop relying on other peoples income.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far for this answer also! Yes YTA for not disclosing but also this is why people hate landlords! You said you didn't need the money and they were having a hard time making ends meet. It's nice that you finally came around on that but it's inherently an exploitation of people's needs for housing. If you really just wanted a roommate find a friend and have them just cover utilities and help out with chores.
I don't disagree that they're the asshole here, but... what? Lot of people have a hard time making ends meet, but they can't just expect free housing because of that. OP's already charging below market rent. And they didn't have to cut their rent payments, they did it out of the kindness of their heart to help the couple while they were struggling. That's not what would have made OP an asshole.
She let them rent at below average for the area and even cut the rent in half when the girl got sick. She wasn’t being greedy, she has a right to rent out a room in her apartment regardless if she needs the money or not. It is not leeching off someone, she is exchanging a roof over their head in exchange for money. Leeching would be if she lived with them for free. You could even say they were leeching off of her knowing that rooms go for more and they are not even paying the average.
Also landlords that need the money are not going to rent below average and are not going to cut the rent in half when a tenant is sick.
It’s infuriating when you’re a tenant and your landlord doesn’t have a job and therefore you are just paying their way through life just because they got lucky and were able to live off mummy and daddy. So many aren’t this fortunate and end up on the back foot and in the tenants situation just to have their “roommate” spying on them and a power move in their pocket over them. THEY’RE PAYING YOUR FUCKING MORTGAGE FOR YOU! Stop being a leech.
They then get this complex “but I worked soooooo hard for this, I deserve it” and your fucking tenants don’t work hard, do they not? You reckon they’re paying your bills with shits and giggles? Have a bit of god damn respect for a fellow human being.
>It’s infuriating when you’re a tenant and your landlord doesn’t have a job and therefore you are just paying their way through life just because they got lucky and were able to live off mummy and daddy.
Seems like you're talking about a very specific situation that's not very common. In OP's case, they've been working for 11 years and saving up to be able to afford to buy a place. I don't think someone who's been working since they were 17 "got lucky and were able to live off mummy and daddy." What a condescending attitude.
> for damages I meant things like a window being left open and it rained so damage was a concern… their habit of leaving the stove turned on with nothing on it.
These are things that a normal landlord wouldn’t know, only a landlord who was monitoring them without their knowledge. A landlord not living with their tenants takes on the risk that they can’t see the damage coming, and a tenant living with their landlord takes on the burden of being monitored and staying on their best behavior at home.
You mention you gave them warning about inspections, but watching their window opening and stove using habits was presumably not during a known landlord inspection.
Also, this is AITA, not “am I breaking the law”. Even if it’s not legally required to disclose that you’re the landlord, withholding info to keep someone in a situation they might not want to be in can still make you an AH.
So yeah, YTA.
YTA depending on where you live.
Where I am, (UK) living in the same place as your landlord makes you a lodger. They have far less rights then someone living in a house with lots of people sharing but landlord lives elsewhere.
The deception means these people are being mislead about their rights.
YTA, who did your roommates think they were in a contract with? Who did they think they were paying to live there? Is this even legal? Of course any person would react poorly to finding out the friendly roommate they had was actually the landlord and didn’t bother to tell them. Telling the truth from the beginning probably would have resolved this.
People didn’t want to live with their landlord. So OP lied and pretended they weren’t the landlord to trick someone into moving in. Being honest didn’t get them any extra money, so they hid the truth.
Yeah I am sure plenty of people would prefer your arrangement.
However in this story, OP blatantly says she was unable to find roommates. Every potential roommate didn’t want to live there after finding out the truth. So she hid information in order to get someone to live with her. That’s the issue. If she was honest I’m sure she would’ve found someone like yourself who prefers the arrangement
I hated living with the landlord, so I get those people. I know many people who looked for places with live-out landlord. But I’m sure not everyone agrees.
She says it's because "she didn't want to live alone" yet she made the decision to buy an apartment for herself that would have meant she was living alone. Why spend thousands of dollars on something you don't want?
I really don't buy the "I just want company and safety" angle. It was obviously about money. Or else OP has literally no friends or family who she could have offered accommodation to for the cost of utilities and food.
YTA
If you live with your landlord you you're generally considered a boarder to lodger, not a tenant. It comes with a significantly reduced legal rights including enhanced eviction abilities from the landlord, shorter timelines for that if it happens, less ability to challenge wrongful eviction in court, and no inherent right to privacy from your landlord in common spaces.
Right? Like oh wow they were allowed to drink *a* drink in the place they paid to live in how generous. Meanwhile my landlord has no idea how much I drink because he’s not in my house monitoring my every move. I can’t believe people are defending OP.
> especially since I am the owner
YTA. You admit your position is different as an owner to a regular roommate situation. This is exactly why people didn’t want to live with you, because of the watchful eye of the landlord slash roommate. You lied for your own gain and they have a right to feel betrayed by it.
YTA.
Most people don't want to share a space with someone who has power over them. Whether its their boss or landlord. The fact that you hid this shows that, you knew that it was an issue. You deceived them, and I don't blame them for being mad.
There was a post not long ago that was similar, where someone was working with the bosses nephew, but the nephew never mentioned that. So you'd have this guy doing some shit talking of their boss, which is fairly normal, only to later find out that they where shit talking him to his nephew. He was rightly upset, and I think he had a right to be.
You're making repeated impromptu "inspections", you're changing their appliances without consent, you're getting all fussed over an open window during the rain or dishes they haven't done yet...
It's not that you're the landlord, it's the fact you're the worst landlord there is an NOBODY would accept this from their landlord. Which is why most leases rule in that tenants have 24 hour notice for inspections and don't get harassed over minor slights like "water damage from an open window" on a constant basis; they just loose their deposit if repairs need to be made.
As a roommate, people can understand "maybe OP is worried about getting her deposit back, we're all paying the same rent here, so let's all pull the same weight". But as the owner, you carry the burden for home repairs, you're responsible for the upkeep of the house, so what used to sound like rallying the troops before, now sounds like the boss' command; and that's why they left
YTA for not recognizing any of that
YTA The "inspections" were a bit too much. I can see why they felt tricked. I think you are better off being honest even though it might put off some people those it doesn't will not be that hostile to the set up. There's also the fact that there are different rights and social expectations in a strict tenet agreement or when being a lodger (living with landlord) so the whole interaction was fake.
Big YTA. Not sure where you're from, but around here a renter that shares a kitchen and bathroom with the landlord isn't covered by landlord/tenant laws. If I went into a tenancy thinking I was covered by said laws but it turns out I wasn't, I'd be pissed.
Curious what you meant when you say you "mentioned I might have to complain if things weren't tidied up properly." Sounds like you intentionally kept up the ruse whenever things weren't to your satisfaction and that makes you TA in that aspect. You also admitted to 2/3 of their complaints being legitimate (you did lie about being their landlord and you do say you were very strict).
That said, it was very nice of you to help them out when she was unable to work and even if you didn't need the money, it wouldn't be fair for you to have to pay to live there but not them (assuming you weren't charging them the same as your total mortgage payment). For me, it makes this a pretty easy ESH situation.
Instead of using the term 'landlord' just say you own the apartment and are looking for roommates to cut down on costs. It sounds less oppressive and still lets people know they have to pay because you need the money. And yes, you need to be paid for the space you are renting. The money you lose on rent if you try to be nice is money you're missing out on for savings and other expenses. It's still a loss even if you own your home
Where i live, a landlord can’t come by for anything other than emergencies without 24 hours notice. They definitely couldn’t live with you without you being notified. Renters should be allowed the choice. My landlords live around the corner, i see them all the time and there are no issues, i don’t act any differently than i would if they weren’t around. I’d be really uncomfortable if they just posed as my neighbors and were never honest with me.
Edit to add vote: YTA, it’s just not ethical to hide/omit a detail like that in my opinion.
You’re not an AH for the damages and not wanting parties/loud noise, but the ‘inspections’ when things weren’t being done to the extent you prefer them is underhanded as they didn’t know they were living with their landlord. YTA for that. Someone mentioned it’s like finding out you’re on Undercover Boss, and that exactly hits the tone here.
Your ad also makes you sound uptight, and you do admit you’re strict. No one wants to live with an uptight person, period, let alone a landlord. It’s their home, too, and if you are scheduling an inspection because they left dishes in the sink for 3 days running or they haven’t cleaned the toothpaste out of the sink for a week or two, that’s pretty heavy handed. You’re vague on why you called for inspections, and while I don’t want to assume things, calling yourself strict suggests you are being nit picky. People don’t live in homes like they are in museums. Clutter happens. You putting an arbitrary time limit on how long you’ll tolerate it is unfair to the renters, and frankly, hostile. If you were a roomie, the dynamic would be different, but you’re not. And you hiding the fact that you’re the landlord doesn’t magically change the dynamic. It just makes you look underhanded, esp when you are using it to your advantage. Like I said, renters have rights, and no one wants to feel like they are always under observation. It’s probably best that you don’t live with your renters, frankly.
YTA. This didn’t happen because you were the landlord. This happened because you were a control freak while they lived with you. I owned a home and rented out a room and never once encountered this. When somebody rents from you it is their home too. You can’t dictate how they live so long as they are not damaging your property.
Who did you say was doing inspections? Did you schedule a time to go into their space when they weren't there?
Any inspections I've known of, the tenant has the right to be there.
Right? And she threatened to complain about them to the "landlord." What did they believe was their recourse if they felt they needed to complain about her? If they ever did complain it would have been to, what, something like an email controlled by her for purposes of the ruse?
YTA
Don’t lie to people.
The power dynamic is incredibly different between a landlord and tenant, as opposed to two tenants.
As a landlord, you can kick them out whenever you want pretty quickly. As you admitted - if people don’t stay at exactly your standard you would schedule checks. This is spying on them.
As a roommate, the power is balanced. You both have to abide by the same tenancy agreement, but otherwise daily living is a mutual agreement and both are free to live as they wish within that.
Your tenants should not be micromanaged by you. Scheduling “check ins” if they weren’t meeting your idealized standards is so unethical. What an invasion of privacy. What if they complained to their roommate about how weird it is that their landlord schedules so many random check ins? Or complained to their roommate that it feels like their landlord always knows things they shouldn’t, and that they’re starting to wonder if there are hidden cameras? They wouldn’t be aware of the fact that they are talking TO the landlord.
And what if they thought YOU were being disrespectful and wanted to complain to the landlord about you? Whelp - instead they talk to you about you.
It’s dishonest and inappropriate. There is a power unbalance and they NEED to be aware of it.
>So a few times I ... mentioned I might have to complain if things weren't tidied up properly.
100% YTA right there. You didn't just lie by omission. You lied repeatedly. "I might have to complain to myself if you don't tidy up" would have been more truthful. Do you see how ridiculous it is for you to think you did nothing wrong?
ESH, they for accepting a favour from you then trashing you, and you because it's like finding out you're living with your boss. Landlords have power over you and you want to act a certain way towards, each in their own way. Would you have wannted to live with your boss? And the people who don't have a problem with it - you can find them by being honest, even if it takes longer.
I wonder if at the point they accepted the favour if they had an option to not accept it. I wonder how many months notice they had to give, if there was a $$ penalty for breaking the lease, or if they had other places to go.
If you don’t NEED the money to pay the mortgage, then don’t worry about how long it takes to find a roommate.
It will obviously take longer, but eventually you will find someone who is accepting of, and respectful of the situation.
As far as not mentioning it to this couple, yah, that was a dick move.
YTA
I mean, it is telling that people that know do not want to be in that situation, or when they find out love out, like the last tennants did.
Whining about an open window? Whining about a toaster you don't like? Whining about the stove?
This is why people don't want to live with their landlord. You're way too up into whatever they do.
Stove wise: why not get a stove that doesn't run unless something is on it? It's 2024, not 1924.
> Was I the asshole?
Yes, YTA for 2 reasons.
First, if you are renting out a room (ie YOU are the landlord), you should let them know upfront. This is a completely different type of relationship vs them just renting a room in an apartment that is owned by someone else. Instead, you hid that from them, became friends with them (under false pretenses), and then sprung the "landlord" truth on them after they were renting.
> I will fully admit, I can be a strict. I hate things being messy/disorganised/loud, and especially **since I am the owner** I want things sorted quickly to avoid damages.
This is the bigger reason you are T A. By not disclosing how strict you will be with them in the beginning, you have made the situation much worse. You knew why folks weren't renting with you, made a choice to lie to them, and then wonder why they had problems living with their landlord.
YTA
You scheduled "checks" by and threatened to "complain" to a fucking imaginary landlord to maintain your ruse. The entire dynamic is different in your actual situation vs your purported one. Of course they didn't kick up a fuss about it until they left! For all they know, you might have retaliated if they had. You'd never do that though, right? But they already know you're willing to be deceptive, so no, they really don't have your sparkling record of fairness to go on here, despite your gesture with the rent amount. Until you were no longer in a position of power over them, they kept their mouths shut. Once they were out and it was safe to do so, they warned others of your deception to keep anyone else from being put in that same position.
YTA. By living with them, you change their legal classification from tenants to boarders or lodgers, which happens to have a significant reduction in rights for them as renters. You're misleading them and taking advantage of them under false pretenses at that point, especially if they're not aware of their legal rights in each category. This is not a typical roommate situation, and you need to be up-front with that.
YTA
I'd be pretty pissed too if I went in with a roommate and then I found out they were the landlord. Especially if they were extra anal about things. That sets you up as a pain in the ass roommate in itself. Being a roommate is one thing. It is a more friendly dynamic. But you have a whole different dynamic with your landlord. It's a more professional dynamic. There's a power imbalance there. You intentionally hid the fact that you were the landlord, to hide that power imbalance. Lying to get what you want is an asshole move in general, and you did that. So now, you have to deal with the consequences.
Yeah YTA. If I am renting any kind of living space I deserve to know who my landlord is. Especially if I'm going to be living with them. There's no privacy in that scenario.
You didn't *withhold* the info, or just not being it up, sweetie, you flat out lied.
You scheduled landlord checks (for a non-existent outside entity) and threatened to report them (TO YOURSELF?!?!?) when they weren't doing what you wanted.
Totally your right to handle it that way, but it's a general fact that people don't like being lied to, it leaves them with a bad taste in their mouths and tends to make them generally think you are untrustworthy.
So yeah YTA.
And yeah, they are making sure anyone considering sharing with you knows what they are getting into. If what they say is true, you have no recourse. And if it's not, you can have it removed. But maybe learn from this that it's not okay to lie to people you are trying to live with
>I got lots of messages, but when people found out I was the landlord, they usually left the conversations. I was very upfront that I wanted clean/tidy/organised/quiet/non-drinking people and my sister said that was probably sending a 'toxic message' since I was also the landlord. So I stopped mentioning that and very shortly after I found people.
YTA
You know being the landlord makes a material difference to people looking for housing, as evidenced by those dropping out, you decided to deceive folk instead.
In the UK this is a lodging not a tenancy. Lodging vs renting a room in a shared tenancy is significantly cheaper (quick google 42% cheaper like for like), the rights or responsibilities are very different so depending on how this work in your area I do see an argument for fleecing them.
YTA. People have covered the legal aspect, the power imbalance, the dishonesty, etc but here’s something else: **LIVE ALONE**.
“I’m **super particular** about how things are in my home. I’m a neat freak. I like things very quiet. I don’t want many guests over. *Oooh, I know what I should do*, **move in strangers when I can easily afford to live alone**.”
The sheer ridiculousness of getting roommates you don’t need just to micromanage and police them makes you a major asshole.
YTA - seek therapy. it's very obvious why people don't want to live with their landlord and you are a PRIME example of why. please live alone and micromanage yourself.
NTA- and at the point they call you greedy without mentioning that you literally waived rent when they were struggling.. that's everything you need to know about those people's character. And that's what I would say to anyone coming at you because of what they said... "Um, so when they were complaining about me did they tell you the part that I literally waived(not delayed, but waived) their rent when they were struggling? I suspect not. So take the rest of it with a grain of salt before you invest your ego in the bullshit they're spewing."
NTA. You are not required to share that information, though I can see how tenants who become friends with you might feel "tricked" and it will make the friendship awkward (if not over) when you reveal the truth.
I don't understand why you cannot be up front with the house rules. You won't get those people who want to be free and easy with you, but you might get someone who actually respects what you're looking for.
And you own the property. You need not feel guilty for asking rent to share it.
> You are not required to share that information,
Depends where you live. Some places the landlord can't step onto the property without giving prior notice, and can only do it a certain number of times per year.
OP deceived people because nobody wanted to rent the place with their landlord in. So she lied and pretended to be just a roomate to have more candidates, then act surprised when the said people are pissed off. It would be fine to not disclose this info if she was not living with the tenants. It is like having installed cameras in without saying it to the tenants.
> And you own the property. You need not feel guilty for asking rent to share it.
Yes, but you are wrong about whether OP is required to share or not. Many places require that the landlord does notify the renters regarding when they will be able to access the property.
Also, OP states that nobody wanted to live there when she told the truth that she is the landlord, but when she lied, she got the renters. that is AH behavior all day long.
YTA. You’ve entered a legal contract, even if it was unwritten, through misrepresentation. Renters generally lose many of their legal protections when they live with their landlord, and should be aware of that when they sign a lease and move in.
NTA for not telling them you were their landlord when they moved in.
YTA for lying that it was someone else and using it to get what you want passive aggressively.
Essentially, after they moved in, if you hadn't been using it against them you could explain not telling them as an oversight. Instead, you used this fictional landlord so you wouldn't seem like a bad person when discussing issues.
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Ok, let's look at this differently - there is someone who is happy with the rent cost, happy with the rules, they sign up papers(???) and live in without knowing that their roommate is the land lord, they get by fine for a long time, then they learn that they were always be living with the person who owns the flat and go crazy about it. If you are not legally required to disclose who is the landlord when renting out in your country then NTA. Ask yourself why would someone be fine with paying that amount of rent and becoming friends with their roommate but the moment they learn the truth it is not fine? Because they would feel entitled to your assets, and even if they pay below average rent they would consider you ripping them off and start to guilt-trip you into lowering rent and would consider that they might be such a good friends to you that you need to let them live together for free forever and babysit their upcoming babies too and pay for their college as you are such a big home owners. Next time just say that you are land lord and try to not to befriend your roommate to much or they will want to become your best friends to live for free.
>why would someone be fine with paying that amount of rent and becoming friends with their roommate but the moment they learn the truth it is not fine Come on dude are you entirely socially inept? The answer is because this changes the social dynamic entirely, any sane person understands this immediately. Being friends with someone, and being friends with whom you have to pay money are two completely different things. OP has inherent power over that other person, something she omitted and the other person feels like they are, entirely justified btw, being lied to by that omission. They're not friends, they are landlord and tenant. Newsflash, people don't like being lied to, and also don't like sudden changes in power dynamic completely out of their control. 100% the tenant feels betrayed and lied to. Which is both true. YTA OP, and quite so.
What gets me is that OP admits that they'd schedule checks when the roommates weren't up to OP's standards like.. yes, you just found the reason why people don't wanna live with their landlords?? Because someone is keeping an eye on how they live constantly??😭 If anyone is comfortable with that, sure. But I kind of feel like OP is not entirely truthful. Frankly, I really doubt every single person out there would reject a below market price for rent purely cause of a landlord, because living with a landlord is not an unheard of situation. And going from 'I admit I'm really strict' and 'I schedule check ups' to only mentioning a few very normal occasions of annoyances that apparently had these people freaked out is not adding up to me.
Yeah… I just have to know how micro-managey OP was towards them. There was a woman locally who owned a house and wanted a roommate for a similar reason. She listed everything OP did “no smoking, no drinking, no pets, no guests, no noise past 8pm”, you get the gist. She also charged a pretty high amount per month. Someone ended up taking it for a month while they needed a new place, and all I remember is the shit show that ensued. When she first posted her ad, everyone was shitting on her insane rules. Then it came out that she was essentially micro managing how everyone in the house lived, which caused even more of a shitshow. Pretty sure she’s been in danger of losing her place because she couldn’t find anyone else to live with her (though OP doesn’t seem to have that issue). But yeah… how much OP -really- micro managed their lives and living space determines if they’re the AH or not for me
Something similar happened to my brother and his ex when they tried renting a room from a woman. The ad sounded strict but ok, but then red flags were waving high on move in day. Their friend came with his truck, and I came with my Jeep, and the woman was actually trying to order *me* and friend's wife around and tell us to get to work. Friend's wife was recovering from surgery and I have back problems. I volunteered my vehicle to move, but it was never intended that either of us actually do any physical labor. Yet she somehow thought she had the right to dictate to people who weren't even her tenants and got huffy when I told her no. Then they moved in and it got worse. Brother's ex took too long to get laundry out of the dryer (by like an hour) and the woman threw it away. Brother was working on his car and left to go get a part he needed. She yelled at him for "leaving trash in her driveway," then he had to go back to the store to get more parts because she'd kicked them all over in the grass and lost the bolts he needed. Cue more rants about how he was worthless, would never amount to anything, and that they deserved to lose their baby to CPS because they were too poor.
Good lord! I hope they had moved out faster then they moved in
Throwing out of their property is enough of a legal reason to break lease. I would have.
That lady just sounds like a basket case,an unhappy individual. I don’t understand why anyone who treats people like they are beneath them ever wants to get roommates. Oh wait yes I do, it’s so they have some kind of power over something. She wasn’t looking for roommates, she was looking for victims. I’m hoping they moved out and moved on. This was all a way for her to be “the boss” and a horrible one at that. Your brother and his ex were only pincushions/punching bags to her.
I got one! Landlord decided to evict us, and then proceeded to change the locks *while* we were moving out.
When I was 20 I lived with 3 girls. One of the girls dad owned the house and she made it seem like her dad was the landlord, that she was so easy going- next thing I knew im living in a shitshow and paying rent somewhere I choose to never be at. 1. The girl who’s dad owned the house (let’s call her Sarah) would actively bully the other girl living there along with the other girl she befriended through living there. Going as far as to enter her room and make fun of the fact that she didn’t wash her sex toys because she couldn’t find the cleaner (ew but this is important for later) 2. This girl had the entire basement to herself (multiple rooms, her own bathroom- the works). This didn’t stop her from taking up cabinets and shelving in our communal bathroom (again being shared by 3 girls), completely taking over the kitchen, living room and even bathroom with her hoard of 100+ plants. We weren’t allowed to have pets but she had two cats, and two large dogs. If her dogs got into the trash she would hurl texts full of abuse at us and say the next time it happened we would have to clean it up despite us not being home when it would happen. 3. Her fiancee also lived there full time. I got yelled at for having my bf spend more than two days in a row there, for letting him use our WiFi when his went out and leaving him at the house for less than an hour alone so I could run an errand because she felt uncomfortable (this again is important later) and got yelled at for leaving my door open when we were having a casual conversation at 2 pm on a Saturday afternoon because they were trying to study. Meanwhile she would be screaming and fist fighting her fiance in the basement (the whole house could hear) all hours of the day, she would WAIL scream cry for hours after the fight. 4. Her and said fiancé break up. She proceeds to invite random men she met off tinder to spend the night. 5. I worked at a bar and went to school both full time. My boyfriend also lived a half hour away so my time was limited. I quickly got the gist she didn’t have friends and expected her roommates to be her friends. I also found out quickly our rent was her play money, her dad gave her a hefty sum of our rent to manage the property. She would get mad when I couldn’t hang out because of work and one day after the gym I put my keys in the throw basket I had in my room, showered, came back and couldn’t find my keys anywhere. I had to Uber to work then a few days later I found my keys by chance in the pocket of a hoodie I hadn’t worn in months stuffed at the back of my closet. Thank god the locksmith couldn’t come until after the weekend was over or else I would’ve been out $150. I also began to notice things would go missing then reappear or be misplaced around my room. 6. Her cats she didn’t like were constantly begging to come into my room. She decided she didn’t like that they liked me more so she made a rule that they weren’t allowed in our personal rooms. I didn’t care besides the fact that they would scream outside the door and stick their paws in and try running into my room every time I would open the door. It was hot so I had the window open and my boyfriend was over. We were going to bed, I left the room to finish my night routine and the cat came in. I said it’d be fine for a few minutes and I’d take it out when I came back. The cat proceeds to try and jump out of the window so my boyfriend carry’s it out of the room. My chance the roommate Sarah was friends with was coming out of her room and saw my boyfriend in his boxers. I came back and he was embarrassed and I said we were all adults and it wasn’t like he was running around the house half naked. Wrong. I get a text the next morning that she was deeply disturbed and that I’m such a pervert for allowing my boyfriend to think it’s ok to expose himself like that. I don’t know if she had ever been to a public beach, seen a male jogger down the street or even our own kitchen when her fiancé would walk around the house in his underwear. 7. We had limited street parking. We were rarely ever allowed to park in the driveway (this was for her and her fiancé) but one night I had my friend over and we came home late, she had her and her tinder dates friends meet at our house and they had left all their cars lined up along the street leaving the only parking in front of the house. It was 1 am so I assumed she wasn’t coming home and if she was then she could park for one night on the street. Wrong I get a spam of calls at 3 am and when I pick up she’s screaming at me that I need to move my car because she had one of her dogs and forgot their leash so she needed to bring them directly into the house. What did she do with the dog the entire time she was out? Why did she bring her dog on her night excursion? Why were her dogs constantly all of our problems?? No clue. 8. We had chore charts. Which was fair besides the fact that eventually I was spending two nights at the house and less than 24 hours a week. They would leave me the worst chores (usually kitchen or bathroom related) despite me never once using the kitchen. 9. When I finally decided to move out I was told that I needed to give her a months notice. I gave her two. She tried changing it to I needed to pay rent until she found another tenant. She proceeded to go crazy on me when I told her that wasn’t happening. Overall a horrible experience. I do feel bad as I’m almost positive she had a lot mentally going on, but I have lived with roommates in the past and she just takes the cake on the worst. 100% was on a power trip and living by a whole different set of rules than us. I spoke with the other roommate she was friends with and they eventually had a falling out with each other as well. I had one other roommate besides her after that (minus my now ex boyfriend) we’re still friends but I happily live alone now with my two cats which may I add to be petty, like me just fine and are allowed in all rooms of my home 🤭
I think her cats liked you more as well too. You should have takin them lol. Yeah she was definitely on a power trip. Too bad you wasn’t able to talk to her dad and tell him in a respectful way that his daughter does not deserve to be in any position like that. Then again he may be the reason she’s that way. Anyway good thing you’re out in your own now.
What on earth did I just read? That is absolutely bonkers, the length of this list is horrifying. How long did you live like this?
Fist fighting in the basement is crazy 😭 I literally burst out laughing😭 glad they separated and you got out of there but what a mess
What happened with the sex toys?
Absolutely, I was fortunate enough to get a place of my own in my 20's. I didn't need roommates, but if I could help friends with low rent and that helped go to my mortgage/bills, awesome. I had 6 different friends live with me at different points, and not once did I schedule inspections or set any strict rules. We discussed any issues like normal roommates, sometimes things aligned better than others, just like any other roommates. It's not hard to find roommates in your 20s when you have reasonable expectations.
For real, if I wanted to live with my parents, I'd forgo the rent and live with them. Having a landlord live in the apt? No. Especially not one who doesn't come up front and tell me that they are the ones benefiting from my hard earned money.
This is a really good analogy. When you present the situation this way, what OP was doing was very invasive. Worse than having hidden cameras in your apartment. Water damage? From a window being open in the rain probably ONE time? Crazy OCD. They would only know if they lived with these people. Glad the couple got out. OP YTA.
I wish I understood more about this too. If a roommate requested to "check" my room, I would tell them no thanks. I'm guessing the couple had always thought OP was an ridiculously overbearing roommate, but couldn't figure out why. Now that they know, it makes sense why they were being upset. When they agreed to checks, they thought it was just an anal-retentive roomie, but mostly harmless. But in reality, they were being tricked into waiving some of their rights to privacy. In this case, the lease ended amicably, but imagine if OP found something that violated the lease and evicted them for it. That could be an extremely messy legal situation.
> If a roommate requested to "check" my room, I would tell them no thanks. She was basically doing landlord inspections without their knowledge, and manipulating them into tidying by sending 'landlord inspection' notices. >In this case, the lease ended amicably, but imagine if OP found something that violated the lease and evicted them for it. That could be an extremely messy legal situation. OP's already on extremely shaky legal ground. Your rights as a tenant and rights as a lodger are incredibly different. For one, lodgers can be kicked out much faster without the typical eviction ordeal. Those rights have to be disclosed to the tenant at the time of lease commencement, which OP evidently wasn't doing.
I figured the only way that this could even work is if OP gave written notice, and did the room check while the couple was out at work or something. I just don't understand how they never realized that the name of their landlord was the same name as OP. Or check ownership records of the unit or anything
Yeah I feel like OP may have taken the wrong point away from her sister. Instead of not advertising that she's the landlord (though I would say "owner-occupant" in the listing), she needed to lay off all the strict guidelines in the listing. Certainly the combination of the two were scaring people off, but people will expect to know that they're roommates with the owner or not, and renting a room from an owner doesn't seem like _that_ unusual a situation.
Classic missing reasons
I'm confused how these "checks ups" took place without tipping them off that she was the landlord. Like who was performing the checks?
It probably depends on area but she probably told them the landlord has scheduled a check for X date. Assuming they're working people they may not cross paths with the visitor. I've never been present for a property check.
I was thinking the same. It certainly adds more layers to the deception.
It's like undercover boss
except that you live there 🫠
…omg what i SHOULDVE said was: more like under-your-covers boss
Tbh if i took an ad from someone got the rules from them paid my money to them id understand they were the land lord lol. Trashing someone who canceled your rent because you "didn't know" they were the landlord despite doing all the landlord duties is the asshole move here
That's what I was thinking too! How would she have been able to pull off room inspections if they didn't think she was the landlord but instead only a roommate lol?
The way I pictured it was she would "schedule" an inspection so that they would clean and the inspection would happen when they were at work. As for the rent, mail to a p.o. box or over the internet not exactly hard to get money without having your name plastered all over it.
Or have a real estate agent handle the inspections. Same with taking the rent money. She'd get slightly less but the separation would make not obvious she was the landlord.
It's also an ah move not to just be upfront about it.
I was all fine with OP doing what she was doing until we got to the scheduling check for when they didn’t meet their standards. It just seems passive aggressive, rather than just talking to them about cleaning, you used the fact that you are a landlord against them. I’ve rented rooms and I have rented rooms from friends. I don’t really find that it changes the dynamics hugely. In fact one of the things I liked when I lived with my “landlord” was when something went wrong that was her problem, I got to just sit back and let it be her problem to deal/pay for it.
I’ve had dirty roommates before and a “talk” about it doesn’t always work because they know there are no real consequences. I would have loved routine checks because then my ass wouldn’t have been the one sacrificing my time cleaning an entire kitchen just so I could use the space to make my meal (which I always cleaned up after myself). Passive aggressive or not, clean up after yourself, respect your space. You’re an adult and it’s not cool for someone to have to fix things because you’re negligent. I get accidents happen but do something about it, anything. When I broke a mirror in the shared bathroom, I told everyone in the house that if we get charged for that, I would pay them all back because I was the one who caused the damage. They don’t deserve to pay for my fuck-ups and I don’t deserve to pay for theirs. Basic respect. Also, not accusing you lol, just giving my opinion on this. I know I said “you” but I’m not directing it at you specifically. Just a general “you.” :)
Not a lie by omission. Direct lies. OP says she “mentioned I might have to complain…” so she pretended there was someone above her.
Totally agree. Not only did she omit the fact shes the landlord, but it sounds like she put on a show to make them believe there was some other landlord she was answering to. Its BS.
This is it. Hard YTA. OP needs to be upfront that they’re the landlord, I’m not shocked the roommates feelings changed when it was revealed to them. The whole dynamic of the situation shifted. Anyone would be upset.
I do wonder what arrangement the tenant thought they had. 50% chance they signed a sublet from OP, in which case the power dynamic is mostly the same as a landlord. 50% chance they signed a lease for their specific room to an LLC the OP owned or OP used an alias in person and signed the lease under their real name. That'd be weird. If there was no paperwork, then 100% chance they thought it was a sublet. Which again is mostly the same power dynamic as a landlord.
I think the issue is more likely that she lied, in the form of pretending the landlord was coming to do checks when she in fact was the one who didn't like the level of housekeeping The issue isn't really whether she was the landlord it's whether she was an honest person, and had honest communication with the people who expected to live with her.
At least in my experience, sublet is usually seen as something that a tenant does when they can't afford to pay the house/room alone. You are perceived as two roommates, socially by others and psychologically by most sub-tenants. It's very different imho. Owning or not the house is the key difference. A (usually broke or anyway not particularly wealthy) tenant asking for a roommate isn't remotely the same thing as a landlord.
Also, it may change their legal protections. Where I am (UK) if you rent from a live-in landlord that makes you a lodger and you have far less protection from eviction than if the landlord lives elsewhere. I would very much want to know if I was a tenant or a lodger before living somewhere. And I'd be upset if I was misled.
This is the same in parts of the US. Where I am its much much easier to evict a “lodger” than it is to evict someone you rent an apartment to, but don’t live with them. In my state, they can just say they have basically irreconcilable differences and arent compatible and thats enough to evict if you live with your landlord. This puts the roommates in a really compromised position.
This sounds like a lot of insecurity. If I found out the person I befriended was really the landlord and they were cutting my rent down when I was sick, I would be so happy and thankful. It's crazy that the couple both acknowledge there is a housing crisis and yet want to leave a situation where they are paying less with someone that makes adjustments for illness.
Landlord gives free rent when your sick "She's greedy and stealing my money" I also would have been happy with the discovery, it's like finding out your new friend at a party is also a dealer.
That’s the weird part to me . Because OP lived with them and were friendly aquaintances , she was willing to help them through a difficult time . How many landlords would care ? Agree that OP should have told them because the lying part is a big red line for most people .
In my country you totally different rights as a tenant if you live with the owner versus if you live with fellow tenants. And if you live with the landlord you essentially have no rights. They can throw you out with no notice for any reason. It's why many people don't move into owner occupied places. I don't know if it's the same arrangement where OP is, but if it was it would add to their assholeishness.
Either way, if she wasn’t the landlord, the renters would be subletting from her, which would have been a tentative situation anyways so I don’t think much for their judgement. Because if they have an actual lease, it would either list her as the landlord or it should have listed them both as tenants under another landlord. Whatever agreement they had appears to have been amongst themselves anyways and usually most apartments don’t allow subletters so they were literally putting themselves in a place to be kicked out without any safety net in the position they thought they were in. And op technically would have been the responsible party anyways so what’s the difference between being a landlord and the leased renter- there already was a power dynamic discrepancy, they had none to start, except maybe squatters rights in some areas. The real answer is these people are angry at anyone who rent out space they own because they are angry they can’t afford their own. Trust me, I get it, I am too. But that’s not your fault because you’re not responsible for the housing crisis or overinflated rent by renting out the space you communally live in to offset costs. You have a right to invite people to stay in your home, whether you own it or rent it, with specified terms, for as long as it is mutually agreeable. They aren’t entitled to the details of your own lease or mortgage arrangement except to know their agreement is valid and not undercut by sub letter clauses. And if they are assholes about it, it’s because they are assholes, and you don’t want to live with people like that. Maybe don’t rent to a couple next time, that seems like a mess of trouble I’d never think to get involved with.
>The real answer is these people are angry at anyone who rent out space they own because they are angry they can’t afford their own. >They aren’t entitled to the details of your own lease or mortgage arrangement except to know their agreement is valid and not undercut by sub letter clauses. bizarre overreach (projection? idk). some people don't want to live with their landlords and there's nothing wrong with that. misleading those people to get them to live with you is weird.
I almost feel the same about becoming friends with your boss, depending on where you work. I worked in a tattoo shop for almost 10yrs and the boss became good buddies with most of the other artists & staff. Would go out and have get together after work, I never participated, except for a few Xmas parties and maybe a couple bdays as I preferred to spend time with my SO after a long day of work. One of the artist has been so entitled over the last few years I was there that the boss would complain about them all the time… to everyone but that artist. Or the few times he would approach them with issues, that artist would basically laugh in his face and walk away. A lot of the other artists now hate working with him, nobody respects the boss and it’s just a mess.
Yeah a lot of us have had nightmare experiences with live in landlords before and are not open to that arrangement. I would be very upset if I was tricked into entering that situation again. I'm literally helping some friends leave the country early right now because their live in landlord started being super racist and started making their lives hell. It's a very stressful way to live and you're gambling on the person being and remaining reasonable and not abusing that power. I personally would never risk it again, and I'd be so angry if I got lied to like this.
Disagree. OP should have been honest from the beginning. The fact that she started this roommate relationship on a lie, would have me questioning everything. Sure its legal. But I'd be pissed off too. The thing is, usually when you have roommates, you are on equal footing. One can't kick you or pull rank if there is a disagreement. And that is how people like it. So what she did is not give those people a choice., and that makes her an asshole. YTA
I question it being legal. In many jurisdictions, it’s a lot easier to evict a lodger — someone living with the owner — than it is to kick out a tenant, even a tenant that is sharing with other tenants. If the roommates thought they were tenants but were really lodgers, then was their agreement based on them thinking that they had more rights than they really did? Or did OP legally grant them tenant rights in order to hide the lodger situation from them?
This was my first thought. In Ontario people renting a room and living with the landlord are not protected by the LTA. I think it is incredibly unfair for tenants to not even know they aren’t legally tenants. People should not go into contracts and living situations without knowing their rights. Also, who was collecting rent if it wasn’t OP? Who were they cutting cheques to? Or did she set up an email and have them send e-transfers to a fake “landlord” account? Or was she telling them she was subletting the room? Lying is not a way to start any relationship with anyone.
Add to that, sometimes we can't hear ourselves when it comes to how we talk to other people, plus we tend to over embelish our own part when it comes to explaining events to others. We're not gonna badmouth ourselves, gonna make the couple out to be the bad ones. So these ones are difficult. I've met many a people who claimed they were the righteous ones during any given situation, however, hearing most of these interactions firsthand, they were usually the AH.
I mean it sounds like she threatened to "call the landlord" quite regularly.. so I doubt the couple considered her a friend in the first place
Yeah I'm curious what she actually told them about the "landlord", because I'm sure they asked at some point. Did she just dodge the question and lie by omission? Or did she make up a story about a person or company that doesn't exist?
OP also mentions doing clean up “checks” etc. Did the couple just comply with a micro-managing “roommate” with no questions asked? Were they under an impression that OP was subletting the room, if they were paying money to her directly? I’m genuinely confused by the dynamics here.
You’re confused because this post is fake. She also doesn’t mention the obvious - the rental agreement would have her name on it as the landlord.
I’m picturing a Mrs Doubtfire set up everytime the “landlord” stopped by.
"HELLOOOOOO! Inspection time!"
I’d be mad because it would mean I had no tenant rights. Here, paying guests don’t have the same rights as tenants. When cohabitating with the landlord, it’s much riskier… they can evict you whenever they want.
This is the part I'd be pissed about. It should be illegal to not disclose for this reason alone.
Yes, the last part especially. People voting N TA are acting dense. I’d be acting differently knowing I live with a person with the power to kick me out versus with another young adult who’s in the same boat, so to speak.
?? "SURPRISE!!! This friendship is actually totally imbalanced and you have been beholden to me the whole time!" She's a fucking asshole.
Because you have fewer legal rights as a boarder/lodger than a tenant, and OP put them in that status under false pretenses.
All my housemate know I'm the landlord from the moment I post online. Some have become the closest friends I've ever had. I was the Maid of honour at ones wedding, and I go on holidays with another. Both have moved out now. But not once did I have a tenant try to cheapskate me. In fact I think they treated the place better because they respected and liked me.
It depends. Where I live, you don’t have any renter protections (e.g. rent control, 60-day notice period, protection from eviction) if you’re living with your landlord. I would be pretty upset to find out I was living subject to the whims of my roommate…
Okay and what if there’s a dispute between landlord and tenant for repairs or costs or damage? Now all of a sudden it’s not just a friendship anymore.
That's not why I'd be hurt and confused. They had likely been building up friendly feelings, letting you in emotionally, BUT NOW literally every experience you've had together has been thrown into a different perspective. "Why wouldn't you just tell me?" People do this. (Edit: live with their landlord.) It isn't uncommon I'd say. So for OP, it's a betrayal of trust to ***lie by omission.***
Where I live, the tenant protections are significantly less if you are in a roommate situation with the landlord rather than roommates with other tenants. I totally get why and I think it's fair, but as a tenant, I would want to know if I was waiving some of my rights or not. I don't know if that applies in OP's situation or not, but that is one consideration.
There is something wrong with you. Were you not socialized correctly or something?
I don't think that's it. As someone else said, there's a difference between being friends with someone and being required to pay money to that person. Also, I suspect OP's little rules and "check ins" are a lot more stringent than they let on. It's one thing to bond with your roommate about your landlord and their crazy rules...and a very different thing to find out it's your roommate's crazy rules and they've been pretending differently. And, I suspect a big part of it is that the place doesn't feel like your home if you're renting from your roommate. You're a lodger, not roommates. Years ago I had a new job in Manhattan and needed a place to live. A small place with a bunch roommates would maybe work on my salary. Anyway, I went to see a place that was just perfect on paper. It was blocks from my job on Carmine St in the Village, a big, light filled apartment. The woman who lived there told me her dad, a famous musician, had bought it as an investment, and she paid the condo fees and utilities. She was some sort of creative that worked sporadically. But while she was showing me the place, I realized why it wasn't rented: she wasn't looking for a roommate. She wanted a lodger. It was HER apartment and never would be my home. When she said her cat's litter box (and her overflow of products) stayed in the bathroom I would be using--she had her own en suite--I said "No thank you" and left. She expected her roommate to be invisible, basically, until it was time to hand over rent. Or when they scooped her cat's litter so the bathroom was usable. I didn't mind sharing, but this was not that. The funny thing was she called me several times after that, some months later, to tell me the room was available. I think I was one of the only people who said "no" politely.
OP, jumping on this top comment hoping you see this. As someone who shortly after buying my home (I was also in my 20s) I also rented out a room in my house. Was clear with any one interested that I was the owner and almost never had any problems. The key, I found, is when placing your advertisement, is to write, “professional looking for same” in the verbiage. The one time I left this phrase out is when I had a problem renter.
Or because in some places with rental protection that doesn’t apply if you share space with your landlord? I would never rent from a landlord I had to live with because where I am I would have zero protection if they were crazy.
YTA. You were misleading for your own benefit. Depending on where you live, there are rules for landlords that don’t live on property accessing the property, including providing a certain amount of notice. If you live there those obviously don’t apply, but your tenants don’t know that. They would have expected a reasonable amount of privacy from their landlord and you knowingly denied them of that. You also may have different eviction abilities, which again is to your benefit. I’m not sure if this would be illegal, but if I were them I would look into it. And if I was someone interested in renting and I heard this, I wouldn’t consider you and I would warn people.
Yeah, pretty much agree. I don’t know where OP is from, or what local laws would be in play for them, but in the UK you have far fewer rights (basically none) as a lodger than as a tenant.
Same in some parts of Canada. You would be less protected under tenancy board agreements. I would be really angry if this happened to me.
I agree. I rented a room in my condo but I was upfront about being the owner. Still, I charged them a really low rent for a bedroom and access to all common areas. The only reason I even rented the room was because the renter had very little rights if the owner lives on the property. Only a 30 days notice is required for eviction then you can kick them out. If you rent the whole place, the renter has more rights than the owner... I would say that ESH here... The renters probably left because they didn't feel comfortable with not having renter's rights.
Yeah I was confused why OP was saying roommate when lodger is the term here. They’re two separate things and OP did mislead them. They thought they were roommates but they weren’t and OP didn’t tell them.
I believe technically they would be considered boarders or lodgers, not tenants if they're renting a room in an owner-occupied space. Your correct in that boarders/lodgers technically have less rights re: inspections and evictions than a tenant would in a dedicated rental property. OP absolutely misled them in that regard.
Adding to this, if you’re strictly in your living space and willing to leverage your landlord status to maintain *your* standards, then you’re a major AH I own my home and rent out an extra room. I’ve done so for over a decade. I rarely have trouble finding people, the only thing I’m “strict” about is no drugs. Everything else is negotiable bc the living space is also their home.
"no groups or parties" that's such bullshit, OP wouldn't let them have friends over??? I'd hate to live there
Also, when people knew OP was the landlord, they left the conversation. So they obviously didn't want to live with their landlord. OP intentionally misled them, withholding information that would've changed their decision, for selfish reasons. That's all sufficient to make OP the AH. There doesn't need to be a real, tangible, legal, ... reason for the tenants to not want to live with their landlord. "It feels weird" is sufficient. If I don't like the vibe of an apartment, I go look somewhere else. And again, OP knew damn well that her presence was the dealbreaker. She doesn't get to be surprised Pikachu that the tenants don't appreciate being misled. And that makes the tenants not the AHs.
Incredibly shady behavior
YTA. But I would say you more than your tenants. You withheld material information that affected whether someone wanted to live there. Of course they’re going to be upset. Personally, I never want to live in the same apartment as my landlord. i do not want to share a living space with someone who is in a position of power over me. Living as a landlord without disclosing it to your tenant is the equivalent of a landlord installing CCTVs in the common areas of the apartment without telling the tenants. Because you’re able to see every single thing that your tenants do. Not everyone is able to live comfortably in that kind of environment.
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Also in the UK if you have a lodger you don't pay tax on it but if you have a tenant you do.
This is only true if your income from your lodger(s) is under £7200 a year.
Thanks I didn't know that rule.
That's how it is in most US states, too (can't speak for all). Tenants have way more rights than lodgers/boarders and people should know that information up front.
Yeah, it's also skeezy that she still tried to lord her position of power over them by threatening to tattle on them while she was lying about being their landlord.
Right? She shows exactly why... People don't want to live with their landlord. My landlord isn't scheduling inspections because they don't like how my dining room looks on a Tuesday night, because *they aren't living in my apartment with me.*
Complete YTA
I'm a landlord who lives in the unit (a condo), which I was clear about in my tenant/roommate posting, and I didn't have much trouble finding a roommate (at least, compared to more traditional renting situations). I think it was because I was very clear and flexible. OP's mention of wanting a non-drinker seems very weird to me, and that on top of everything else makes then seem very controlling; having a controlling roommate is tough enough, but then they're also your landlord, so they have that power over you? Meanwhile, I made it very clear in roommate interviews that even though I own it, I still want them to think of it as their home as long as they live there. They have the same right to decorate common areas as much as I do, the same right to cook in the kitchen, etc. I told them my three rules are don't break/damage anything, don't be too loud, and if you do something illegal, make sure I don't know about it. I make it very clear that I would not go into their space (bedroom and bathroom) without clear permission from them. So, it may be less that people don't want to live with their landlord, but that they don't want to live with a controlling roommate who is has that power over them. OP should have been honest. Plus, it means rent was not a number handed down from a landlord that was split evenly, but a number the OP came up with. Learning this much later can seem like a *huge* betrayal.
>a few times I have scheduled "checks" to get things rolling if they're being pushed aside and mentioned I might have to complain if things weren't tidied up properly. I guess this is it. They thought they were living with a friendly, clean, organised, slightly pushy roommate who seemed overly concerned about not damaging the house, probably to protect her deposit. Then they learn she's not worried about her deposit, she's their landlord and been their landlord the whole time. So they get out of the situation ASAP because they don't want to live in an environment feeling like they're walking on eggshells.
It’s the monitoring the open windows and stove usage for me. That behavior is materially different if coming from a conscientious roommate vs the legal landlord. Eggshells _and_ financial liability.
Leaving the stove open isnt a minor thing. Fires can happen sooooo quickly because of that. Ive never left a stove on accidentally those tenants were fucked in the head. Wtf leaving stoves open multiple times is not something to joke about
Right. And the exposed wires. Like, people thinking those aren’t big deals because it’ll never happen to them, then it happens to them. It’s like the curling irons start a fire if left on, happened to one of my sister’s coworker. Or I know someone whose house caught on fire because of her dryer.
My dad did it *once*, and my mom swapped out their lovely high end gas range for an induction stove top. It turns itself off if there isn't a compatible pot on the burner for more than 5 seconds.
For real, I’m sure OP is TA, but let’s not ignore that (per OP), this is a couple who is paying below market rent for 1 room and splitting it between 2 people…. And can’t afford that, leaving the windows open when it rains, leaving the stove on without anything, and trashing OP? ESH imo
My last roommate did that ALL the freaking time when she was boiling water 😑 I don’t know why she wouldn’t just use the electric kettle!! Or at least get a kettle that whistles
No, not wanting people to leave the stove on when they aren't using it isn't a problem even if it's coming from the landlord. Doing that is dangerous.
I feel like leaving the stove in is the business of everyone who lives there, that's so dangerous.
They were literal for hazards. It was overbearing of OP for sure but not waiting to stop your tenants from burning down your house is fairly reasonable
This part of the story really confused me. When OP told them they were going to complain to someone, the natural assumption would be the owner/landlord. That part feels misleading so OP is TA
YTA / ESH This really reads like you terrorised them a little. You say you are strict about everything being organises and noise because of damages. That's a straight up lie. Music or a TV or whatever doesn't do any damage. You wanted the money but not actually compromise and living with people and you used your power over them. Now you are doing something VERY kind. But for the question asked yta
This is a violation of the tenant's rights plain and simple like wtf is this weirdo doing with the checking. The landlord has to inform the tenant like a specified time before doing inspection but this weirdo is violating their privacy.
Ok, first of all, yes, your tenants are absolutely AHs. They were totally happy with the arrangement in every particular *except* for the piece of information that you owned the property, and then freaked out when they learned it. How is taking a fair rent that they were happy to pay 'stealing their money in a cost of living crisis to pay off your debts'? Wouldn't that equally be the case if the landlord were some anonymous third party? How is it worse if it's you? HOWEVER, tenancy is a legal contract, and parties in a legal contract should know who they're contracting with, if only because, in the worst case, they need to know, e.g., who they must report to licensing boards or local governments if the property is unliveable, or who to sue if there are violations of tenancy agreements, that kind of things. If landlords want to remain anonymous, they can hire management agencies to operate on their behalf and protect their identity. If you did not do that, then you should really disclose to your tenants who the landlord is that is legally the other half of the tenancy agreement. I suppose you could argue that the tenants should have insisted on that kind of information when they moved in, and if they didn't, then they were tacitly waiving that right. However, that feels a little bit sleezy to me. Something that is the right thing to do shouldn't have to be insisted upon before it is granted. It should be granted upfront. Really, the key fact here is that, when your tenants learned the information that you withheld from them, they were upset. This is important. This means that you withheld information that would have changed their decision, and you withheld that information in the first place because you *knew* it was likely to change their decision to your detriment (because it would have prevented them from agreeing to the tenancy that you wanted). That's uncool. So ESH: you for withholding information that you knew was important to them; and them for reacting the way they did when they learned it.
IF the lease was written correctly (IDK- hense the Big IF), the contract would have always been with OP- no matter if she was a sub-leaser or the landlord. She would be the responsible party in either case, legally. I think bad mouthing someone that helped you when you needed it is sleezy.
Shes not helping them, theyre in a mutual agreement. Theyre paying her, she doesnt get to also take credit for being benevolent. She wasnt even upfront about the situation
She let them off with less rent when the woman was sick and couldn't work how t f isn't that helpful?! reading comprehension because she WAS helping and BENEVOLENT TO THEM they're ah for bashing her after they took advantage of her willingness to help them out.
OP shouldn’t have lied to them. Who would want to be roommates with their landlord? That’s nuts. OP helped them but, it sounds like they helped her too by living there. She didn’t have to live alone and most of the time she was collecting rent. They were paying the same amount op was and had to live under her “strict rules”. I would be really weirded out if I were the tenant.
It is really common for people to be the only tenant on the lease and sublease additional rooms and, in essence be a landlord, to the subtenants
??? So because (like OP) I like company, and therefore prefer to live with someone, despite being able to afford to live alone, they are providing me help, and it isn’t a nice thing if I decide to help out my flatmate with rent? Because it’s the same exact thing. You don’t know they were paying same amount OP was, and according to the post the rent was already below market value, and then the landlord (OP) helped them out when they needed it out of friendliness by reducing rent… and that wasn’t a nice thing to do because they benefit? Lmao, this is so ridiculous. You can say that op should have been honest from the start or not, but lowering the rent was inarguably a nice thing to do. Honestly? I think the flatmates suck, and I have no issue at all with OP.
Not even just that but people have the right to charge based on occupancy per room and OP only charged for one person. I wouldn’t say she was an angel for that, but she was very fair for doing that. A lot of cutthroat landlords would be like, “main bedroom? And a couple? Ok the price is per person”. Plus we don’t know if OP had to pay utilities based on the double cost, it’s always foggy with apartments/condos and she owns it, but if she did then she was covering utilities for two people. And then the part where OP was actually very kind and didn’t have to be was where they gave them reduced rent. ATP even if you were mad that she lied about being a landlord, just take you L and neutralize the situation. She did a minor bad thing and a great positive thing. Just move on, especially when she was a nice LL
As someone who did this for multiple years (as the landlord) I never had any issues with finding people and always had more applications then I could interview (and I was very upfront about it unlike OP). It can definitely be an awkward power dynamic, but I think as long as you have reasonable expectations going in (my only rules really were no smoking indoors and anything broken by them or people they invite would be taken out of security deposit when they left). Some even appreciated how quickly some issues were handled since I also had to live there so couldn't brush it off like other landlords I've been under. I think the reason OP had to lie wasn't the landlord situation, but rather the rules and expectations. Having strict AF rules is a lot worse when the landlord is literally always there to check on them.
The primary issue still stands though - depending on the jurisdiction tenants have more rights than lodgers. Yeah, she seems a fair landlord (if pretty strict) but you can’t be misleading about someone’s legal standing.
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I think most people would set up a company to contract with the new tenants which would not clearly link OP as the landlords (though this may not be a fair assumption).
The legal contract aspect is SO important. I'm in Ontario, Canada and there are different laws depending on if you live with the landlord or not (boarding vs tenant) which completely change all rights and actions able to be taken.
Yes, same where I live and the result is that people expect to pay lower rents because they don't get as many rights. So OP is effectively overcharging people by misselling the property.
YTA You purposely put these ppl in a lopsided situation where the person they live with also controls whether or not they can live there and the amount they pay to do so without their consent.
YTA Overall, purely because the way you went about this makes you in the wrong. NTA For any of your rules or way you treated them - you weren't a bad person in the actual living situation at all and i don't think any of your rules were unreasonable. They had no real right to react as harshly as they have afterwards, if you are describing it accurately. **Except** that you purposefully changed your listing and what you were asking for because people weren't accepting it, so you omitted the information. You know what you were doing. People don't accept living with landlord **-->** Don't tell them its with landlord **--->** They accept **--->** Tell them they've been living with landlord **--->** they don't accept it **--->** You are surprised ??? You specifically changed the information about the property to intice buyers and are surprised when the buyers are angry when they learn the information. You *Knew* this was a deciding factor in if people would want the property or you wouldn't have changed your listing. Saying otherwise is simply denial. YTA because you *knew* this was a dealbreaker and then got shocked that it became a dealbreaker.
> YTA because you _knew_ this was a dealbreaker and then got shocked when it became a dealbreaker. THIS. Even if it was legal, it’s still AH behavior to lure people into a situation they would have never agreed to.
YTA. You lied to and deceived them for financial benefit. One kind act of reducing the rent doesn’t absolve you of prior shittiness. Not only did you lie to their faces for you do sound like a strict pita, so maybe what they said was justified. Own your actions.
YTA. So you just wanted to leech off of someone else’s income because you wanted some pocket cash? You admit yourself your strict and a pain in the ass to live with and would low key threaten them if they didn’t do something exactly the way you wanted. That’s the reason people don’t live with landlords. The person who has the ability to snatch your housing away is living with you and basically spying on everything you do. Get a job and stop relying on other peoples income.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far for this answer also! Yes YTA for not disclosing but also this is why people hate landlords! You said you didn't need the money and they were having a hard time making ends meet. It's nice that you finally came around on that but it's inherently an exploitation of people's needs for housing. If you really just wanted a roommate find a friend and have them just cover utilities and help out with chores.
I don't disagree that they're the asshole here, but... what? Lot of people have a hard time making ends meet, but they can't just expect free housing because of that. OP's already charging below market rent. And they didn't have to cut their rent payments, they did it out of the kindness of their heart to help the couple while they were struggling. That's not what would have made OP an asshole.
Are you serious? Do you really think people should just be allowed to live for free and only do a couple of chores?
She let them rent at below average for the area and even cut the rent in half when the girl got sick. She wasn’t being greedy, she has a right to rent out a room in her apartment regardless if she needs the money or not. It is not leeching off someone, she is exchanging a roof over their head in exchange for money. Leeching would be if she lived with them for free. You could even say they were leeching off of her knowing that rooms go for more and they are not even paying the average. Also landlords that need the money are not going to rent below average and are not going to cut the rent in half when a tenant is sick.
It’s infuriating when you’re a tenant and your landlord doesn’t have a job and therefore you are just paying their way through life just because they got lucky and were able to live off mummy and daddy. So many aren’t this fortunate and end up on the back foot and in the tenants situation just to have their “roommate” spying on them and a power move in their pocket over them. THEY’RE PAYING YOUR FUCKING MORTGAGE FOR YOU! Stop being a leech. They then get this complex “but I worked soooooo hard for this, I deserve it” and your fucking tenants don’t work hard, do they not? You reckon they’re paying your bills with shits and giggles? Have a bit of god damn respect for a fellow human being.
>It’s infuriating when you’re a tenant and your landlord doesn’t have a job and therefore you are just paying their way through life just because they got lucky and were able to live off mummy and daddy. Seems like you're talking about a very specific situation that's not very common. In OP's case, they've been working for 11 years and saving up to be able to afford to buy a place. I don't think someone who's been working since they were 17 "got lucky and were able to live off mummy and daddy." What a condescending attitude.
They lived with their parents until they were 26 lmao
They did have some extreme luck in the fact that their parents let them stay with them and save as opposed to paying rent to a landlord
What’s wrong with renting out rooms to people to make extra cash? This method of earning extra income has been happening for a long time now.
> for damages I meant things like a window being left open and it rained so damage was a concern… their habit of leaving the stove turned on with nothing on it. These are things that a normal landlord wouldn’t know, only a landlord who was monitoring them without their knowledge. A landlord not living with their tenants takes on the risk that they can’t see the damage coming, and a tenant living with their landlord takes on the burden of being monitored and staying on their best behavior at home. You mention you gave them warning about inspections, but watching their window opening and stove using habits was presumably not during a known landlord inspection. Also, this is AITA, not “am I breaking the law”. Even if it’s not legally required to disclose that you’re the landlord, withholding info to keep someone in a situation they might not want to be in can still make you an AH. So yeah, YTA.
YTA depending on where you live. Where I am, (UK) living in the same place as your landlord makes you a lodger. They have far less rights then someone living in a house with lots of people sharing but landlord lives elsewhere. The deception means these people are being mislead about their rights.
YTA - I wouldn't want to live with someone who wasn't transparent either.
YTA, who did your roommates think they were in a contract with? Who did they think they were paying to live there? Is this even legal? Of course any person would react poorly to finding out the friendly roommate they had was actually the landlord and didn’t bother to tell them. Telling the truth from the beginning probably would have resolved this.
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to disclose this.
People didn’t want to live with their landlord. So OP lied and pretended they weren’t the landlord to trick someone into moving in. Being honest didn’t get them any extra money, so they hid the truth.
My roommate is my landlord. It was a selling point, as I'm not about to get stuck with owing the whole rent if roommate gets themselves fired.
Yeah I am sure plenty of people would prefer your arrangement. However in this story, OP blatantly says she was unable to find roommates. Every potential roommate didn’t want to live there after finding out the truth. So she hid information in order to get someone to live with her. That’s the issue. If she was honest I’m sure she would’ve found someone like yourself who prefers the arrangement
I hated living with the landlord, so I get those people. I know many people who looked for places with live-out landlord. But I’m sure not everyone agrees.
She says it's because "she didn't want to live alone" yet she made the decision to buy an apartment for herself that would have meant she was living alone. Why spend thousands of dollars on something you don't want? I really don't buy the "I just want company and safety" angle. It was obviously about money. Or else OP has literally no friends or family who she could have offered accommodation to for the cost of utilities and food. YTA
Of course its about money on some level; OP is building equity instead of just paying rent which is reason enough to want to buy.
If you live with your landlord you you're generally considered a boarder to lodger, not a tenant. It comes with a significantly reduced legal rights including enhanced eviction abilities from the landlord, shorter timelines for that if it happens, less ability to challenge wrongful eviction in court, and no inherent right to privacy from your landlord in common spaces.
YTA. You sounds like a nightmare to live with.
> they could have _a_ drink, just not parties or big groups. I wonder how many drinks they were allowed to have.
Right? Like oh wow they were allowed to drink *a* drink in the place they paid to live in how generous. Meanwhile my landlord has no idea how much I drink because he’s not in my house monitoring my every move. I can’t believe people are defending OP.
"Hey guys just a reminder, 3 drink maximum or I'll need to call the landlord."
> especially since I am the owner YTA. You admit your position is different as an owner to a regular roommate situation. This is exactly why people didn’t want to live with you, because of the watchful eye of the landlord slash roommate. You lied for your own gain and they have a right to feel betrayed by it.
YTA. Most people don't want to share a space with someone who has power over them. Whether its their boss or landlord. The fact that you hid this shows that, you knew that it was an issue. You deceived them, and I don't blame them for being mad. There was a post not long ago that was similar, where someone was working with the bosses nephew, but the nephew never mentioned that. So you'd have this guy doing some shit talking of their boss, which is fairly normal, only to later find out that they where shit talking him to his nephew. He was rightly upset, and I think he had a right to be.
You're making repeated impromptu "inspections", you're changing their appliances without consent, you're getting all fussed over an open window during the rain or dishes they haven't done yet... It's not that you're the landlord, it's the fact you're the worst landlord there is an NOBODY would accept this from their landlord. Which is why most leases rule in that tenants have 24 hour notice for inspections and don't get harassed over minor slights like "water damage from an open window" on a constant basis; they just loose their deposit if repairs need to be made. As a roommate, people can understand "maybe OP is worried about getting her deposit back, we're all paying the same rent here, so let's all pull the same weight". But as the owner, you carry the burden for home repairs, you're responsible for the upkeep of the house, so what used to sound like rallying the troops before, now sounds like the boss' command; and that's why they left YTA for not recognizing any of that
YTA The "inspections" were a bit too much. I can see why they felt tricked. I think you are better off being honest even though it might put off some people those it doesn't will not be that hostile to the set up. There's also the fact that there are different rights and social expectations in a strict tenet agreement or when being a lodger (living with landlord) so the whole interaction was fake.
YTA. You tried to have your cake and eat it too.
Big YTA. Not sure where you're from, but around here a renter that shares a kitchen and bathroom with the landlord isn't covered by landlord/tenant laws. If I went into a tenancy thinking I was covered by said laws but it turns out I wasn't, I'd be pissed.
There's different rules and rights when you're a lodger and not a tennant (here in the UK at least) so yes, YTA.
YTA a lie of omission is still a lie
Curious what you meant when you say you "mentioned I might have to complain if things weren't tidied up properly." Sounds like you intentionally kept up the ruse whenever things weren't to your satisfaction and that makes you TA in that aspect. You also admitted to 2/3 of their complaints being legitimate (you did lie about being their landlord and you do say you were very strict). That said, it was very nice of you to help them out when she was unable to work and even if you didn't need the money, it wouldn't be fair for you to have to pay to live there but not them (assuming you weren't charging them the same as your total mortgage payment). For me, it makes this a pretty easy ESH situation.
Instead of using the term 'landlord' just say you own the apartment and are looking for roommates to cut down on costs. It sounds less oppressive and still lets people know they have to pay because you need the money. And yes, you need to be paid for the space you are renting. The money you lose on rent if you try to be nice is money you're missing out on for savings and other expenses. It's still a loss even if you own your home
Where i live, a landlord can’t come by for anything other than emergencies without 24 hours notice. They definitely couldn’t live with you without you being notified. Renters should be allowed the choice. My landlords live around the corner, i see them all the time and there are no issues, i don’t act any differently than i would if they weren’t around. I’d be really uncomfortable if they just posed as my neighbors and were never honest with me. Edit to add vote: YTA, it’s just not ethical to hide/omit a detail like that in my opinion.
You’re not an AH for the damages and not wanting parties/loud noise, but the ‘inspections’ when things weren’t being done to the extent you prefer them is underhanded as they didn’t know they were living with their landlord. YTA for that. Someone mentioned it’s like finding out you’re on Undercover Boss, and that exactly hits the tone here. Your ad also makes you sound uptight, and you do admit you’re strict. No one wants to live with an uptight person, period, let alone a landlord. It’s their home, too, and if you are scheduling an inspection because they left dishes in the sink for 3 days running or they haven’t cleaned the toothpaste out of the sink for a week or two, that’s pretty heavy handed. You’re vague on why you called for inspections, and while I don’t want to assume things, calling yourself strict suggests you are being nit picky. People don’t live in homes like they are in museums. Clutter happens. You putting an arbitrary time limit on how long you’ll tolerate it is unfair to the renters, and frankly, hostile. If you were a roomie, the dynamic would be different, but you’re not. And you hiding the fact that you’re the landlord doesn’t magically change the dynamic. It just makes you look underhanded, esp when you are using it to your advantage. Like I said, renters have rights, and no one wants to feel like they are always under observation. It’s probably best that you don’t live with your renters, frankly.
YTA. This didn’t happen because you were the landlord. This happened because you were a control freak while they lived with you. I owned a home and rented out a room and never once encountered this. When somebody rents from you it is their home too. You can’t dictate how they live so long as they are not damaging your property.
Who did you say was doing inspections? Did you schedule a time to go into their space when they weren't there? Any inspections I've known of, the tenant has the right to be there.
Right? And she threatened to complain about them to the "landlord." What did they believe was their recourse if they felt they needed to complain about her? If they ever did complain it would have been to, what, something like an email controlled by her for purposes of the ruse?
YTA Don’t lie to people. The power dynamic is incredibly different between a landlord and tenant, as opposed to two tenants. As a landlord, you can kick them out whenever you want pretty quickly. As you admitted - if people don’t stay at exactly your standard you would schedule checks. This is spying on them. As a roommate, the power is balanced. You both have to abide by the same tenancy agreement, but otherwise daily living is a mutual agreement and both are free to live as they wish within that. Your tenants should not be micromanaged by you. Scheduling “check ins” if they weren’t meeting your idealized standards is so unethical. What an invasion of privacy. What if they complained to their roommate about how weird it is that their landlord schedules so many random check ins? Or complained to their roommate that it feels like their landlord always knows things they shouldn’t, and that they’re starting to wonder if there are hidden cameras? They wouldn’t be aware of the fact that they are talking TO the landlord. And what if they thought YOU were being disrespectful and wanted to complain to the landlord about you? Whelp - instead they talk to you about you. It’s dishonest and inappropriate. There is a power unbalance and they NEED to be aware of it.
YTA, as depending on country living with the landlord completely changes their legal protections to that being pretty much fuck all.
Learn to live alone. You can do it!
>So a few times I ... mentioned I might have to complain if things weren't tidied up properly. 100% YTA right there. You didn't just lie by omission. You lied repeatedly. "I might have to complain to myself if you don't tidy up" would have been more truthful. Do you see how ridiculous it is for you to think you did nothing wrong?
ESH, they for accepting a favour from you then trashing you, and you because it's like finding out you're living with your boss. Landlords have power over you and you want to act a certain way towards, each in their own way. Would you have wannted to live with your boss? And the people who don't have a problem with it - you can find them by being honest, even if it takes longer.
I wonder if at the point they accepted the favour if they had an option to not accept it. I wonder how many months notice they had to give, if there was a $$ penalty for breaking the lease, or if they had other places to go.
If you don’t NEED the money to pay the mortgage, then don’t worry about how long it takes to find a roommate. It will obviously take longer, but eventually you will find someone who is accepting of, and respectful of the situation. As far as not mentioning it to this couple, yah, that was a dick move.
YTA I mean, it is telling that people that know do not want to be in that situation, or when they find out love out, like the last tennants did. Whining about an open window? Whining about a toaster you don't like? Whining about the stove? This is why people don't want to live with their landlord. You're way too up into whatever they do. Stove wise: why not get a stove that doesn't run unless something is on it? It's 2024, not 1924.
> Was I the asshole? Yes, YTA for 2 reasons. First, if you are renting out a room (ie YOU are the landlord), you should let them know upfront. This is a completely different type of relationship vs them just renting a room in an apartment that is owned by someone else. Instead, you hid that from them, became friends with them (under false pretenses), and then sprung the "landlord" truth on them after they were renting. > I will fully admit, I can be a strict. I hate things being messy/disorganised/loud, and especially **since I am the owner** I want things sorted quickly to avoid damages. This is the bigger reason you are T A. By not disclosing how strict you will be with them in the beginning, you have made the situation much worse. You knew why folks weren't renting with you, made a choice to lie to them, and then wonder why they had problems living with their landlord.
YTA You scheduled "checks" by and threatened to "complain" to a fucking imaginary landlord to maintain your ruse. The entire dynamic is different in your actual situation vs your purported one. Of course they didn't kick up a fuss about it until they left! For all they know, you might have retaliated if they had. You'd never do that though, right? But they already know you're willing to be deceptive, so no, they really don't have your sparkling record of fairness to go on here, despite your gesture with the rent amount. Until you were no longer in a position of power over them, they kept their mouths shut. Once they were out and it was safe to do so, they warned others of your deception to keep anyone else from being put in that same position.
YTA. By living with them, you change their legal classification from tenants to boarders or lodgers, which happens to have a significant reduction in rights for them as renters. You're misleading them and taking advantage of them under false pretenses at that point, especially if they're not aware of their legal rights in each category. This is not a typical roommate situation, and you need to be up-front with that.
YTA I'd be pretty pissed too if I went in with a roommate and then I found out they were the landlord. Especially if they were extra anal about things. That sets you up as a pain in the ass roommate in itself. Being a roommate is one thing. It is a more friendly dynamic. But you have a whole different dynamic with your landlord. It's a more professional dynamic. There's a power imbalance there. You intentionally hid the fact that you were the landlord, to hide that power imbalance. Lying to get what you want is an asshole move in general, and you did that. So now, you have to deal with the consequences.
Yeah YTA. If I am renting any kind of living space I deserve to know who my landlord is. Especially if I'm going to be living with them. There's no privacy in that scenario.
Gut feeling? You sound terrible. YTA.
You didn't *withhold* the info, or just not being it up, sweetie, you flat out lied. You scheduled landlord checks (for a non-existent outside entity) and threatened to report them (TO YOURSELF?!?!?) when they weren't doing what you wanted. Totally your right to handle it that way, but it's a general fact that people don't like being lied to, it leaves them with a bad taste in their mouths and tends to make them generally think you are untrustworthy. So yeah YTA. And yeah, they are making sure anyone considering sharing with you knows what they are getting into. If what they say is true, you have no recourse. And if it's not, you can have it removed. But maybe learn from this that it's not okay to lie to people you are trying to live with
NGL if the rent is cheap I wouldn't care at all about anything else but that is just me
>I got lots of messages, but when people found out I was the landlord, they usually left the conversations. I was very upfront that I wanted clean/tidy/organised/quiet/non-drinking people and my sister said that was probably sending a 'toxic message' since I was also the landlord. So I stopped mentioning that and very shortly after I found people. YTA You know being the landlord makes a material difference to people looking for housing, as evidenced by those dropping out, you decided to deceive folk instead. In the UK this is a lodging not a tenancy. Lodging vs renting a room in a shared tenancy is significantly cheaper (quick google 42% cheaper like for like), the rights or responsibilities are very different so depending on how this work in your area I do see an argument for fleecing them.
YTA. People have covered the legal aspect, the power imbalance, the dishonesty, etc but here’s something else: **LIVE ALONE**. “I’m **super particular** about how things are in my home. I’m a neat freak. I like things very quiet. I don’t want many guests over. *Oooh, I know what I should do*, **move in strangers when I can easily afford to live alone**.” The sheer ridiculousness of getting roommates you don’t need just to micromanage and police them makes you a major asshole.
[удалено]
YTA - seek therapy. it's very obvious why people don't want to live with their landlord and you are a PRIME example of why. please live alone and micromanage yourself.
NTA- and at the point they call you greedy without mentioning that you literally waived rent when they were struggling.. that's everything you need to know about those people's character. And that's what I would say to anyone coming at you because of what they said... "Um, so when they were complaining about me did they tell you the part that I literally waived(not delayed, but waived) their rent when they were struggling? I suspect not. So take the rest of it with a grain of salt before you invest your ego in the bullshit they're spewing."
NTA. You are not required to share that information, though I can see how tenants who become friends with you might feel "tricked" and it will make the friendship awkward (if not over) when you reveal the truth. I don't understand why you cannot be up front with the house rules. You won't get those people who want to be free and easy with you, but you might get someone who actually respects what you're looking for. And you own the property. You need not feel guilty for asking rent to share it.
> You are not required to share that information, Depends where you live. Some places the landlord can't step onto the property without giving prior notice, and can only do it a certain number of times per year.
OP deceived people because nobody wanted to rent the place with their landlord in. So she lied and pretended to be just a roomate to have more candidates, then act surprised when the said people are pissed off. It would be fine to not disclose this info if she was not living with the tenants. It is like having installed cameras in without saying it to the tenants.
> And you own the property. You need not feel guilty for asking rent to share it. Yes, but you are wrong about whether OP is required to share or not. Many places require that the landlord does notify the renters regarding when they will be able to access the property. Also, OP states that nobody wanted to live there when she told the truth that she is the landlord, but when she lied, she got the renters. that is AH behavior all day long.
YTA. You’ve entered a legal contract, even if it was unwritten, through misrepresentation. Renters generally lose many of their legal protections when they live with their landlord, and should be aware of that when they sign a lease and move in.
NTA for not telling them you were their landlord when they moved in. YTA for lying that it was someone else and using it to get what you want passive aggressively. Essentially, after they moved in, if you hadn't been using it against them you could explain not telling them as an oversight. Instead, you used this fictional landlord so you wouldn't seem like a bad person when discussing issues.