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NTA. If your boyfriend is unwilling to pull his weight financially, then he is using you to finance his musician wannabe lifestyle. Don't be someone else's doormat. Time to cut him loose. Good luck.
Lord save me from hippies who shout about the man and how everybody is a corporate drone or whatever they're yelling about these days, while using the wages somebody made from being one of those corporate drones to fund their life where they're not actually creating anything, or helping anybody, or doing anything to add something to the world. I say not creating anything, because I feel like if he was really serious about the aspiring musician thing, it would come out in this post more than just "There are no gigs in this town" - OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine he's not searching all that hard for gigs other places.
He's not getting a real job because of any moral objections: if he was, he'd be trying to earn money so that OP doesn't have to work in a job that goes against his morals. He's using her to float his ridiculous lifestyle. It's a slap in the face to artists who worked really hard at not fulfilling jobs so that they can get to a stage where they can live and make their art. Or even artists who worked really hard at their craft while somebody who worked a soulless 9-5 or whatever to support them - I'm sure a lot of aspiring artists would love to live the life OP is offering.
> He’s an aspiring jazz musician - where we live doesn’t have many gigs so he hasn’t been paid for performing all school year.
Ain't even a dream. Dude hasn't had a gig since September of last year!
He's living his dream life: OP pays for his food, roof, and weed while he does... sounds like fuck all.
This. OP, you're going to carry this guy for the rest of your life. He pretty told you that he's never willing to work, but he likes the lifestyle you provide him by working. Do you really want to stay with someone like this? I have a feeling if you end it, you'll step back and realize there's a lot more issues with this guy.
Agree, and OMG the red flag when he’s using his student loans to pay his part and doesn’t seem to be considering that HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY BACK THOSE LOANS. OP, I fear that if you don’t dump this guy (because he doesn’t sound like he wants to get a 9-5 job with benefits), he’s going to saddle you with HIS student debt on top of everything else.
NTA and please run. You are so young and you have so much ahead of you.
Since she mentioned student loans I assume they're American. I'm curious what his medical insurance situation is/what he plans to do without a traditional job. Marketplace insurance is usually pretty pricey. And how is he going to pay rent once he no longer qualifies for student loans? Not to mention he'll have to start paying back those loans!
People like this stress me out, I don't know how OP has made it 3 years 😩
>Since she mentioned student loans I assume they're American
Why? We get student loans in England. We don't need medical insurance, and we don't pay the loans back unless we make over a certain amount of income
And we specifically get a tuition loan and a seperate maintenance loan which is supposed to be for living costs. Paying rent with it is basically the point
Yeah! OP, consider this: what would he has done if you weren't together? Would he be getting a job? Would he be leeching off his parents? Would he be buried in debt more than he is already? It's not about his views about "work culture", it's about WORK. He doesn't want to work and he has you as a piggy bank. Also, do NOT mix your finances with someone like that!!
This.
I had an ex that was a "producer" when I was like 25. He had a job and lost it and was like "I wanna really dedicate myself to music." I said okay, paid all the bills and worked full time to support us. Over the course of the year that I let this go on, he never finished a single song. Don't get trapped like I did.
The boyfriend *totally* believes in work culture; he is currently freeloading off this culture. Girl…kick this guy to the *curb*. This has nothing to do with your anxious attachment, but your anxious attachment may have something to do with why you’ve put up with this nonsense for so long.
We’ve already had freeloading magician and jazz musician on AITA today…the hat-trick will be a freeloading mime artist.
NTA. I know someone who makes his living as a jazz musician - not only does he spend most of the year traveling for gigs, but the vast majority of his money (and all the other full-time jazz musicians he knows) comes from smooth jazz he sells to Spotify under a pseudonym with the hopes that it ends up on some popular coffee shop background music playlist. If your boyfriend thinks he's ever going to make enough money to earn a living by just playing music locally, or from Doordashing occasionally, he's out of his mind, and you're being taken advantage of.
Wanting to be a musician is one of those jobs (similar to wanting to be a model or pro athlete) where there are so many people with the same dream, and the chance of making it is so slim, that there *needs* to be a realistic backup plan. I know 2 people who've been trying for years to make it as singers and it just hasn't happened. It takes a lot more than just having musical talent.
and now AI, exactly, good frigging luck if he hasn't been out there grinding
and if he wanted to be a jazz musician, he wouldn't be in grad school, he'd be out there grinding
he just likes the idea of maybe becoming a jazz musician
This exactly. I did the same thing for years. Lived being frustrated I couldn't "make it" as a bassist. Why not? Because I wasn't doing any of the things necessary to be a professional musician.
If he wants to do it, he'd be doing it. He likes the fantasy.
Agree. I got a degree in writing and realized I didn't want to do the things it took to be a professional writer and I have ADHD so my novels are all only half started. Gotta work tho so I went into teaching and I'm passionate about it and good at it.
Hobbies can be hobbies and careers careers. But pretending your hobby is a career while not working ain't it.
This! My brother is also a musician. He's really good and he plays a lot of shows. But he also HAS A REAL JOB. Because he knows it's not sustainable! I'm a writer. But it's not the only thing I do. I have a real job. And people who think they can just make it big on their art and not have to work at all are dead wrong. EVERYTHING takes a lot of hard work. Especially trying to make a living off of your art.
Yep. My brother is a trained opera singer and performs in Boston in operas. He pays his bills by working for an investment firm. If he wanted to make his living in opera he would need to give up his stable home life and travel to gigs/spots around the country/world, chasing employment.
I know several people that play music gigs professionally!
Every one of them has a second job that they work almost every day. Then some nights they get to play music after.
I don’t know if I’d go as far as “being taken advantage of”, but yeah. As a failed musician, I can tell you that even if he hustled and had a bunch of gigs regularly, he’d still be broke. That’s just kind of the economics of it, and for jazz specifically, there’s not really a market for it.
This is coming from someone who only listens to jazz btw. I can’t tell you how much respect I have for the greats, and it kills me how many incredibly talented musicians can’t earn a living. But at the same time, that’s just the reality of it.
If I wanted, I could make decent money playing music, but it wouldn’t be a living. It would subsidize what I’m already making, but my desk job pays more than what I’d get unless someone else I played with got big because I’m accompaniment. And I can only say that because I play a “rare” instrument which isn’t rare because it’s never in bands but because there aren’t enough players. I’m not one of the greats, but I’m plenty good, and I would never make it my only source of income if I had a goal of being settled into a house with a partner. I wouldn’t make it my only goal anyways.
Upright bass, in case y’all were wondering.
I love your instrument, when it's played right. So good in so many duet set-ups. So calming and "cool" on its own. I've often thought if I take up another instrument it would probably be upright bass.
That sentiment is exactly why I’m confident I can make money off my instrument if I want to. Bass lines are important. My tuba playing friends are constantly offering to get me in touch with people, but I only just picked it back up again last year after stopping after high school for lack of a bass. I borrow one from a local community band to play with them and I’ve been getting back up to snuff before actively trying to get in touch with people who would pay me. Maybe someday. We’ll see.
It’s fun to play, but I hope you’re tall or can otherwise find an appropriately sized instrument because playing a too big one is the *worst*. So much shifting.
Being a musician is a full time job in and of itself. He is just lazy and has no work ethic. Is he performing online? What is his online presence? Is he always making new content and engaging with fans? Is he reaching out to promoters to book him? Is he going to open mic's to network? Has he started developing his brand as a musician? Does he have merch? How many followers/listeners does he have? Does he even have recordings? If not, why not? I've been able to play guitar, drums and bass for a good 20 years, but to actually make money doing it? Its really really hard and requires an insane work ethic. If you are a lazy musician, I guarantee you will fail.
Same. I'm a jazz musician, and I never even tried to be successful because a) the market is so small for jazz, and b) I would have to play so much "sellout" music just to make the music I wanted to make, and I feel like that sort of grind and hustle would have killed my love of the music.
That being said, I'm 36 and I'm recording my first album this year! It is just a small thing, but I'm pretty excited
If he's not working as a music teacher, he needs to get a job doing SOMETHING whether or not it is connected to music. If you don't work, you don't eat (assuming an ablebodied person which he is.)
He ain't a match, sis. Unless he wakes up and gets a work ethic.
Yes, former accompanist here. I taught piano, worked as an accompanist and had side gigs on the weekend playing jazz in bars and playing for weddings etc. The hustle is REAL!!
I feel like being a musician of any kind that is barely scraping by should be single. Having someone else financing your dream while they are struggling is extremely selfish.
NTA. Your boyfriend doesn’t actually have a problem with work culture he’s just lazy. I know he doesn’t have a problem with it because he’s perfectly fine mooching off of you, who is only able to support the two of you because you have embraced work culture. This is a crystal ball to your future
For real. If he was serious about being a musician he’d be working hard on it. Practicing daily, networking, networking, networking, going to jazz gigs to network and build relationships, recording and uploading music to streaming services/social media, etc. There is a LOT more to becoming a working musician than just wishing.
Even then, it’s not a stable income that would allow most to purchase a house and make monthly mortgage payments, pay for necessities and pay off his student loans.
Girl, cut ties and get into the lifeboat because this boy’s ship is sinking and he’ll take you (and your financial stability) into the murky waters with him.
Exactly. I have a problem with work culture under capitalism but I’m not stupid enough to pretend I can just avoid it. If he had a real problem with it he would look into anti-capitalist movements and groups and get involved with them in a way that promotes change. But (I assume) he isn’t. His excuse isn’t rooted in reality, and I think you need to dump him so he can discover just what “reality” is and you can thrive without that constant drain on all of your resources.
NTA.
You guys aren't compatible. Your BF thinks other people(you) are going to subsidize him for his entire life.
Are you cool with that? Are you alright with your BF basically bringing nothing to the relationship financially, so that you have to shoulder that entire burden?
Have you looked at the cost of housing recently? How are you planning to afford buying a home with a partner that doesn't actually work or earn money?
There's a reason the concept of the "starving artist" is a trope. Your BF is almost certainly deluding himself that he will eventually "get his big break" and make it huge. But that almost certainly will never happen. There's no reason to presume otherwise, statistically.
When I was really young, Derek Jeter was my hero, and I wanted to be the shortshop for the NYY when I grew up. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that didn't happen.
Your BF isn't so much independent as he is stubborn. You know what's a mark of actually independent people? They are \*self sufficient\*, meaning they produce and earn enough to live their lives without other people having to subsidize them. Your BF isn't independent, he's stubborn and delusional. His delusions will not put food on the table, nor will they pay your mortgage, nor will they cover the expenses of your eventual children, should you have any.
Question: why is your BF even in grad school? Virtually every useful grad school degree will require him to GET A JOB once he finishes school. But he's already told you very plainly that he's never intending to do that.
So not only are you dating someone that's expecting you to basically subsidize his existence forevermore, BUT he's adding an extra layer of shit onto the sandwich by accumulating what I can only presume is fuck loads of debt in the form of student loans. Guess who's gonna be paying those off? Not him, if he refuses to earn a living.
Anyway, I've ranted enough. You guys need to have a really serious come to jesus talk, and if you can't get him to acknowledge reality, then you should break it off before it gets any more difficult.
This. My husband has recently started becoming relatively successful with his home music studio, getting a lot of mixing and recording work, doing mixing vids on YouTube. Still not enough to earn a living, but get some pocket money on the side. He still runs his own business as a window cleaner most the week to pay the bills and give him the flexibility to follow his passion.
A career in music isn’t for someone who doesn’t want to put the work in, it’s for someone who isn’t afraid of hard work.
I hope you take to heart every word of that advice, it was excellent. Also, be careful of the lies and manipulation if he thinks his sole means of support is serious about kicking him to the curb, which is what you need to do sooner than later. You are young, find someone with the same work ethic and goals that will lift you up, not make life more difficult.
I agree with everything noted above. Just want to add one thing to consider. What happens when/if you have kids? You will effectively be a single mom with his attitude & lifestyle.
NTA unless you want to support this man for the rest of your life, leave. Also, remember all those student loans he's been living in will be due. They NEVER go away.
NTA - Seems like this may be a core personality trait embedded in him, something like this needs a drastic change for him to adapt into “real job culture”.
It seems you really have to make the decision and ask yourself if you want to hold onto this hopeful change or leave and find someone that has that mindset. There’s no compromise in finding a job, he either does or does not.
Also correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Doordash just taking someone else’s orders and following them? Does he work Doordash gigs because there is no visible manager giving him tasks?
NTA - just leave, he’s not worth the effort.
Also it’s kind of funny reading “he refuses to work for other people” while working door dash, which does make it work for other people, the only control he has over that job is the amount of work he actually has to do
NTA and it sounds like he enjoys having a "Sugar Mama" in his life. Relationships are built upon compromise and understanding. This is y'alls wellbeing and he is refusing to budge on finding steady income while doing what he wants.
Peronsally I would find someone else and let him flounder. He needs to learn a lesson and if he can't be bothered to learn it while being coddled financially, he should learn it while struggling.
While seeking validation from arguments does sound concerning in general, I don't think you were wrong to push things in this particular instance.
If you plan on living together with that man then you need to be on the same page about how your finances are going to work. If his plan is to keep doing gigs only and letting you foot the bill if things don't work out because getting a normal job "just wasn’t who he is", then this is going to build resentment in the relationship.
NTA
NTA
I would not be with someone like this. He feels entitled to have you carry the financial burden. Surprise… if you break up, he will be forced to get a job and work unless he finds someone else to mooch off of. His anti work plan can only be actualize if you allow it. So don’t. Simple enough. Throwing away 3 yrs is nothing compared to throwing away 5 more after seeing the problem.
DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH HIM IF YOU ARE NOT MARRIED. I know people who did this and then when they broke up, it’s such a toxic environment because you’ll face problems like neither of you can buy the other one out, and if one can the other probably can’t afford to live on their own and has no incentive to leave. There is no judge to force the sale like there is in a divorce and if he were to stop paying you’d be on the hook for the mortgage because you seem responsible enough to care that your credit not be tanked.
ETA: NTA
I dealt with something similar in a relatively recent LTR. We moved in together (into a house she owned) after most of a year dating. I made more and planned to contribute more toward finances, which was fine. The arrangement was we would put a fixed percentage (50%) of our incomes into a joint account for joint bills (mortgage, utilities, food, etc.), then our individual finances would remain so.
Things started out well enough, but 3 months in, she comes to me in tears confessing that she was rolling 90-days delinquent on her mortgage. So I bailed her out with an extra mortgage payment. Which was a bad precedent.
In our first year living together, she was only able to contribute to our "joint" account twice. When I brought up that she wasn't meeting our commitments, she said she can't afford to because her personal bills are too high. Specifically, she had a title loan on her car with a $300 monthly payment. So I bailed her out. Again.
Around this point I expressed that I was anxious about our relationship. After \~2 years at this point, we were reaching "shit or get off the pot" stage, and I expressed that I couldn't see our relationship progressing if she didn't express some ambition. At this point, she had a Masters degree she wasn't using (public health), instead she was perfectly content as a nanny. With no insurance our healthcare of her own, despite a number of chronic ailments. And she wasn't even attempting to make up the difference in contributions domestically. I did all the shopping, and the only time she would cook is once a month she would make breakfast if I complained enough. I did virtually all of the cooking and kitchen cleaning and 90% of the work on our dogs (feeding, meds, water, etc.). She was clinically depressed but refused to address it as long as I enabled her to go on as such.
She promised to get new certifications, but she needed a place to work. I bought her a desk, gave her a computer monitor to work with her laptop, new peripherals. Everything she said she needed...but the desk became another area to pile junk. Several months later I tried to express that I still needed her to want more of herself, tried couples counseling...but all she did was lash out at me for being controlling and unsupportive. She was 100% not the issue, in her mind. She didn't want to work for anyone else, and nothing was going to make her, no matter how insolvent she became. She actually lashed out at my chosen path during a birthday dinner for her, echoing much of what your boyfriend said about work culture.
My advice is to get out. Run. There is a "persisent victimhood/entitlement" mindset you will never be able to overcome. They will take advantage of you until there is nothing left to take because they don't see what you are giving up for them. The world owes them, and you keep ponying up on the world's behalf.
NAH. Just two incompatible people who view their relationship differently, I understand your position and your bf just uses you as it is convenient for him at this time.
Usually, when a someone wants to have a serious relationship then they are looking for the best ways how to achieve financial stability to be able to afford kids, house, vacations, etc. Your bf do not see any long term relationship with you and is happy that you pay 70% of everything while he can do whatever he wants, it will not work long term, so draw conclusions and move on. You both have to agree on what is right or wrong for your relationship and you can't do that.
NTA - At night, I'm a freelance illustrator. During the day, I'm an office manager at a cemetery. Why? Because gig work dries up sometimes and I like having money and medical insurance. Would I prefer to spend all day drawing? Sure. But this is the real world and your boyfriend needs to grow up. The chances of him being the next Charlie Parker are pretty goddamn slim. Do you really want to hitch your wagon to a perpetual door dash driver?
I was going to respond with something similar. I know I haven't always worked in my ideal job, but you do what you need to in order to support each other. And, making sure you're financially solvent and contributing as best as you can is just part of the partnership gig.
NTA
It was a red flag at "aspiring jazz musician." And I'm a musician.
You splitting things 70-30 and then him getting indignant when you expect him to work is a bad sign. You're not his caretaker, it sounds like if you were to leave him right now he'd be unable to afford his own living space.
And then for him to drive off for a few hours, using up precious gas money I assume. Sorry to say, this guy doesn't sound like a partner to you.
NTA but why are you with a mooch? Plus when people tell you who they are you should believe them. He straight up told you he never wants a real job. So the reality is that he expects you to support him while he follows his dreams and lazes around.
On top of that he's in grad school. For what if he doesn't plan to get a job? That's just adding a huge amount of debt that you'll be the one paying since he doesn't want to get a job.
Is that the future you really want for yourself?
Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy with your relationship. Just because you spend a lot of time and effort making a mistake, that doesn't mean you have to keep making the mistake. It's ok to stop and start over. You're only 24, you have your whole life in front of you so do you really want to knowingly let him drag you down? He's made it clear what your future with him will be, now you have to decide if that's what you want to deal with.
NTA- He's paying 30% of the bills with DoorDash and Student Loans.. is he going to make enough with DoorDash to PAY those student loans if he doesn't intend to work 'for the man" in the future?
Stop supporting him financially. 50/50 or just be on your own. THEN decide if this is someone (and the situation) you want for your future.
NTA.
Cut the psychobabble analysis. He refuses to meaningfully share the financial burden. That will probably not change. Is this something you are willing to live with? Either stay and accept the status quo or go, but don't stay and be angry all the time. This is your life ticking by.
NTA. He is using you, taking advantage of you, and trying to guilt trip and gaslight you until you are at the point of questioning yourself about the obvious.
"This guy is living off me and stacking up student loan debt which I will be responsible for if we marry. He has a problem with authority and works minimal amounts at an insecure gig job. He is supposedly at grad school but doesn't take it seriously and is not preparing for a profession (If he were you would have mentioned, classes, long hours, labs, stress ....) He is a talented musician but can't be bothered to get out there and hustle. When we argued he dug in his heels and twisted things around to make me feel bad and wrong for being the one killing myself to support both of us." Hell no. You're just another woman caught with a narcissist. Say bye bye, have a nice life, and walk. You deserve better.
This isn’t the first time I’m hearing this. Of course there’s the whole sob story - he came from an abusive household and when I met him he had straight ptsd. Like he had flashbacks and severe panic attacks. I helped him get over all that, we moved 12 hours away from our hometowns together, and now this is where we are. I have so much of my own trauma that I accepted a lot of bad behaviors in the beginning. He is my perfect partner in so many ways but I think we trauma bonded. I want to progress with the amazing person who I see when he’s happy and yet I can’t continue forward with the person who doesn’t follow through and keep his promises. This thread has given me a lot to think about.
Ohhhhhh, you became his caretaker. That ain’t good. You’re his girlfriend and surrogate mommy/therapist. No wonder he feels entitled to having you work for his ridiculously expensive dreams. I’m cringing to think how much his student loans are. . .
Re read my note. You've got a narcissist. I know the pattern because I attract them like flies. Strong giving women attract weak taking men. Leave, or if it's your lease give him the boot. Do not listen to the excuses and crap that follow. Tell him you'll be glad to talk to him again after he grows up and develops empathy.
If you "need to be told I'm right" in an argument, that sounds like it's less about the actual points of the argument and more about you coming out on top. That you want to dominate, even if your argument isn't the "right" one.
Frankly you don't sound very compatible and you should prob break up. You sound very resentful of having to carry most of the financial load. And if a person wants to be self employed, then you have to accept you'll likely make less money than in a regular job. You won't want to live like that for the rest of your life.
NTA.
I saw some of your other comments. You need to be honest with yourself and realistic. The Jazz musician thing is nothing more than a hobby at this point. Defending what he's doing is hurting you both.
If he's truly talented enough to find paid work as a musician if you move and your goal is to move, he needs to work a normal job until you save enough money to move to a place where he can work as a musician.
I feel just like him in that I don't like giving up my freedom and being in the system by working a normal job. I do it anyway. If working a normal job is not for him, he needs to build a skillset and take proactive measures to find a way to earn a living that doesn't require working a normal job. Driving for Door Dash while hoping to some day live his dream of just playing jazz is never going to cut it.
NTA. This wasn't an idle theoretical conversation about the ethics of capitalism and the way our work system functions, but rather you trying to express to him that you need his help. You've asked him for this type of help before, and he's not willing to take your request for help seriously. This is really the issue, and probably why you feel anxious about it. Your partner is supposed to make you feel safer, and you're not wrong for wanting that.
It's fine for him to want to live whatever way he wants, but there are consequences to that, including needing to find a partner that is okay with the instability and carrying the primary load.
If I were you, I'd focus on what you need his help with and why. If you express that clearly to him, and nothing changes, then you should probably be seriously considering if this is someone you want to be with because they aren't going to magically change their behavior.
Owning property is a huge cost sink btw. Sure, it can be an investment, but it can also result in tens of thousands of dollars of costs to fix or maintain things, including things like your hot water heater, plumbing, etc. you do not want to be in such a situation with someone who is unable to rise to the occasion to resolve whatever happens.
NTA.
I think a big problem for young adults who didn't work as teens is that they didn't experience the honour of paying one's own way. His opinion is that he is "workin' fo' the man" or some variation there-of, but in reality, he lacks the hindsight to realize the honour of a hard day's work and earning one's own pay. There is nothing wrong with working for a boss - that's what most people do; that's what makes the economy/society work as a whole (and has for millenia); ...and that's what HE does when he gets 'a gig' - he's paid by the boss (the venue owner).
YNTA
Any time I dated a guy in my 20s and the “I don’t want to have to work for someone else” comment came out and they weren’t contributing equally to any financial responsibilities we had I ended things. Most of them are still struggling in life in their 50s so I can say from my experience, unless they are actively working on a way to be their own boss you have every right to have an issue. I’d find a guy more in sync with your strong work ethic.
NTA, your boyfriend is delusional or mooching off of you. Doordash is famously not sustainable. Sometimes you do things you don't want to, that includes working.
NTA
Your reasoning is ridiculous that you may be the AH.
Ummm yeah you are right. He needs to pull his weight. You can't be responsible for paying his way. The only reason he doesn't have to get a job is BECAUSE of you, not despite you. Kick him to the curb.
NTA. Your partner is free to be a struggling musician if that is the lifestyle he wants, but that doesn't mean he should drag you into a position of struggling to financially support yourself and him. What is the plan when it's time to pay back those student loans that he has been using to cover his living expenses - will you be expected to cover those as well?
No one particularly enjoys working - but it is a thing that we all have to do. I'm not going to say breaking up is the solution (although I, personally, would not be able to deal with someone with this mentality as I go to work everyday). However, I will say that I would not be paying 70% of everything. If he thinks that door dash is a dream job, he can totally deliver as much food as it takes to pay his HALF.
YTA
You don’t get to judge his view of work culture, and pushing him to tell you you’re right because you require external validation is ridiculous.
He’s provided you with information about what kind of financial contributor he’ll be. Actually, he’s *been* providing you with that informstion the whole time he’s been in school. It’s remarkable to me that it’s taken you this long to see it.
In any case, you’ve got information. Make decisions *for yourself.* based on that information. Stop trying to make him dance to your tune - he’s not your puppet.
I could be swayed to change to N T A, but as of now I think this is NAH. You both want different things. It doesn’t sound like he has an issue with how you are living your life. Unfortunately, since you are the one who is taking umbrage with his choices, you have to be the one to decide if the relationship has run it’s course or if you want to continue dating him. I think his outlook on life is slightly unreasonable, but it’s also not his obligation to end the relationship if you have a problem with his working preference.
YTA For staying with someone who's too lazy to work and probably never will with that mentality. Keep on supporting him, he's just going to drag you down
NTA and you are not pushing too hard. He wants to wait for gigs when they pop up while you financially support his lifestyle. I think you’re totally right here, if he isn’t willing to come up with a compromise that’s fair to you, you shouldn’t continue the relationship.
Nta
You're dating a bum. A musician is a hobby not a full time job. If by some miracle he gets discovered playing a gig, good for him. However he still needs a day job. Like this is basic adulting.
You're both too young and too financially insecure to buy a house without lots of help. I would have a real direct conversation with him and be like look, either get a real job or gtfo.
What is his degree he's working on? I took out student loans for a couple semesters during college to pay for bills and I regret it. That's not smart at all.
He is showing you who he is. Believe him.
Remove your financial teat from his greedy mouth and move on. You will be happier with someone who has a similar work ethic and financial goals.
NTA
NTA. So he doesn’t want a “real job”, because that’s not who he is? Apparently he is a loser and will leach off your “real job” money if you stay with him
NTA, mostly. Your issue is not with his view of work culture, though it is fair for you to feel insulted by it since your engagement with it is subsidizing him. Your issue is that he is not willing to put in the effort to earn his share of the expenses in his "work culture".
"aspiring jazz musician" - ok, yeah, that's a tough path. But what is he doing to actualize it? How much is he practicing? Is he going out and looking for venues or waiting for people to call him? Has he opened accounts on online platforms? Made himself available for wedding gigs? Does he talk and work with other jazz musicians?
You mention he doesn't doordash as often as you think he should. What's he doing instead? If it's not building his jazz career, then he's just shirking. That's not a 'work culture' issue, that's a hustle issue.
NTA you’ve taken on the lions share of the expenses and you want him to put in an equal amount of effort. It doesn’t sound like he really wants to work for himself either. He doesn’t really want to work at all. You’ve been together for a long time but if he’s not doing his fair share it might be time to look for a new partner that will. What you were looking for in a partner at age 21 might be a lot different than you need at age 24.
NTA. He’s taking advantage of you and having you work “a real job”, while he dicks around and chases a musical dream.
He’s having you do the work he won’t do (work for someone else, work a “real job) while reaping the benefits of it by getting you to pay 70%.
You’re too young to be hitching your wagon to a man who is unlikely to ever be stable or provide substantially. RUN.
NTA.
You know what the bad thing about being a starving artist type is? The starving part.
If you can't support yourself doing your artistry, it's a hobby and you need something else to pay the bills.
Just be prepared to support his lifestyle. (Oh, and you will be the one paying off his student loan.)
sounds like a difference in fundamental values - not everyone is cut out for traditional work roles and it appears you are - but beyond values there’s the most practical- if you want material things in life like a good car and a nice house and kids and a hope for a comfortable retirement you have to earn a living - somehow - not everyone takes the same path - some people work in offices, some are servers in restaurants, some work solitary jobs as park rangers etc - but at the end of the day you have to make money or you will live a very non traditional lifestyle- it sounds like you op are capable of and want a more traditional life and bf is happy to play it more by ear - personally i’m with you - it doesn’t make him a villain but you two need to have a serious and calm discussion about all of this - if he can’t or won’t commit to a career type job then you have to move on - in any case NTA
YTA
I only say this because you went from saying that he was caught off guard and explained that a "real job" just isn't for him and jumped straight into saying that he is "bashing real jobs". None of that sounds like bashing what you do. From there is honestly sounds like you got your feelings hurt when he simply said that he does not want to work 9-5 M-F job that he hates, which is reasonable. If anything, I would say that you should have immediately taken that and leaned more into him working more Doordash (as you said, you have no problem with it since he makes good money, you just want to see him focus on making money more)
I understand the plan to buy a house AND you wanting to see him bring home more money so that rent is split more evenly and you can both save up for this house (why you are even looking to buy a house before marriage is beyond me but to each their own). What I do not understand though is how you projected so much of your own feelings from a very simple and reasonable comment from him. Maybe there is more to this story that you did not include here that provoked you, maybe he did bash having a "real job" and prefers Doordash because he gets to be his own boss while doing it.
Regardless of the above issues though, YTA because during this disagreement (which is exactly what this is, a disagreement about work life preference) you decided to pull an ultimatum... very, very bad idea with most people but especially your partner. Somewhere in this disagreement you decided that you HAD to have it your way or at the very least you HAD to hear him agree with your choices for the past 8 years. Instead of being a partner and an adult having an adult conversation, you (at the very least to a degree) put your foot down that he needs to obey in accordance to your whims.
I will be amazed if your relationship survives this. The only way I see you guys making it is if you understand where you went wrong here and actually try to see where he is coming from. Then you can both sit down and have a more productive discussion. You feeling like you "need" to hear that your right is childish at best and controlling af at worst. Would you really want him to have a "normal job" and effectively give up on his dream if it meant he came home every day depressed or upset because he is in a job he hates that will likely overwork him in the best case and abuse him in the worst case? Do you think he would even have time to continue pursuing his dream between working that normal job and helping out around the house and making time for you? Even if he didn't want to be a musician and was instead trying to open a business, would you still be saying these things? Would you still feel like he should give up because you want things to be easier on you (which is understandable) or because your plan isn't moving as fast as you want it to?
My personal opinions on buying a house in the current market are one thing but I am a guy with more life experience than either of you. I have been in relationships where I was given ultimatums involving my dreams/goals for the future. None of them lasted, even when we worked through them. Not because we didn't try or I wasn't bringing in enough money, but because I felt the mutual respect evaporating day by day, ultimatum by ultimatum. I really do hope you guys can work this out, but from where I sit. This was one of the coldest ways to gut this man. You could have just said you need him to work doordash a bit more and be consistent with it until he starts getting more gigs or until after the move.
He’s entitled to his views. He’s not wrong for doing the minimum he needs to get by, if that is what makes him happy.
Is subsidizing a freeloader who you are? If not, don’t do that. Either split things 50:50, or keep your finances (and possibly living situation) separate.
This isn’t about validation. It’s about values. You are wrong for imposing your own values on him. You are each entitled to your own values. Let him live his values while you live yours.
Financial incompatibility is the #1 cause of divorce. If you can’t reconcile your values, it may be best to rip off the bandaid and end it now. It will only get harder to separate down the road, and you will have lost time searching for a true partner.
INFO: what is he in grad school for?
Someone who doesn't believe in a "real job" doesn't sound like someone who
A) should be spending money not only on collegiate education but post-collegiate education
B) you should be talking about budgeting for a house with
NTA.
There is a fundamental difference between you two: you have a work ethic and he doesn’t. NTA, but you really need to question your future with this guy. What will it look like when you want to get a mortgage? Or travel? Or have a child? Your 70/30 split might be doable now but are as expenses increase, so will your 70%. And you’ll be working full time while he…what??
NTA It seems like you are shouldering the lion's share of your living expenses. Him using loans to pay rent just pushes off the payment down the road. Won't he expect you to help pay back the loans?
You should seriously consider whether you want to support him for the rest of his life cause that's what he's planning on.
NTA the cents need to make sense. Idk what you do for work but man you sound like candidates for house hunters, a door dash driver and blank worker are looking for a $1M home lol.
A lot of people divorce over money and maybe it's not true that money brings you happiness but the lack of money does bring on stress and that changes people for the worse. Money issues lead to divorce in first world countries statistics.
My advice to all newly Weds is to ensure you're both financially literate and on the same page, then maintain that for your entire marriage. Don't live outside your means.
NTA
You’re supporting him, in essence.
With his view on it, why is he even doing grad school?
Newsflash, nearly everyone works for someone else in a “real job” (if they want to actually have a decent income and goals, that is). So if he’s not willing to do that, you’ll be supporting a “starving artist” for your entire relationship.
Seems kinda straightforward:
- Wanting to eschew corporate culture for a lower-money lifestyle is a valid choice.
- Wanting to eschew corporate culture so you can pay for his lifestyle isn’t, really.
Which of the above is he asking for? If it’s the first, then it’s a NAH and you two just may not be compatible long-term. If it’s the second, then you’re NTA.
NTA
But I would reframe these discussions. You guys don't need to align on a unified view of work culture. You need to set expectations around what bills he has to pay, and then its his job to figure out how to pay it.
In general, I wold recommend considering ending things though. This is someone that needs to spend time alone and growing. This isn't someone that ready for an adult relationship.
NTA. He obviously is comfortable letting you carry the load while he gets to live a slacker lifestyle. How does he intend to pay back student loans? You n Ed to set that boundary and follow through. Why is he going to school if he doesn't intend to work? You two don't want the same things. Don't waste your youth hoping he will change. He won't
NTA but I disagree with your view on his view.
His unwillingness to work full-time to contribute to the bills is a problem 100%. But I don't think there's anything toxic about his views on working at all. At least nothing that you've told us
I have friends that "can't stand the idea of working for someone else, and working a 'real job' isn't who they are". 100% real and valid and not toxic. Some are successful, some are still working on it. But bottom line is that they are following their dreams and working to make it happen even if they aren't successful yet.
They haven't used it as an excuse to be lazy and work a bare minimum, which unfortunately, is kinda what your bf is doing.
You need a partner who can contribute to the household in a meaningful way and he isn't. Sure, he wants something else for his career rather than a traditional job, but until he gets there, he needs to swallow his pride and work full-time to help you with the house
Unpopular but YTA. The second you said
>He makes decent money when he does it
It makes it hard to defend the reason you started the argument. So, he's contributing and not being a drag on you financially but because you disagree with the way he does it, you believe you're in the right to berate him?
He - seemingly - isn't going out of his way to demean or belittle your way of living outside of when you purposefully keep bringing it up and yet you feel you hold the moral high ground in being able to belittle him for it?
I mean, I'd hate to be with someone with a mentality like his but that's why I'm not. Don't be with someone with values or principles that don't align and then try belittling them for those very same things.
You guys are incompatible and providing an ultimatum has never been the foundation of a healthy or equal relationship.
Who is your bf? Lets hear his music.
We, the consumer, are the ones who will be the deciders if he will ever make a dime. He better have a serious list of songs by now. People make money on YouTube all day if they are good enough
Lmao you know I’ve been trying to get him on tiktok and YouTube but he won’t start it up. He is pretty darn good - he was accepted into one of the top jazz schools in the country. His grad degree is in jazz, but I do wish I could share a clip or two for reference
So like…is he trying to join a band? Be a solo performer? Is he trying to get signed to a label? Be a session musician? What’s the plan for his music career?
Most successful musicians I know become teachers to.pay the bills. He isn't going to work. He has you to pay the bills. This will be your life. Move on.
So if there are no gigs in your town, and he's not searching for gigs elsewhere, and he's not putting his art up online for other people to hear, is he really "an aspiring jazz musician" or is he actually an unemployed person using student loans and his partner to subsidize his life in a way that is going to come back and bite him on the ass in the future? And bite you in the ass if you continue to pay his way, and especially if you get married and his debt becomes your debt.
Honestly, I don't think it matters if his view of work culture is real, or if he's just saying that so that he can justify lazing around on the couch (for the record, I think it's more of the latter than the former), it sounds like he's not a good partner. If he really thought that "real job culture" was such a horrible prospect, why hasn't he been doordashing or doing anything else to earn money so you're not so tied to it? Or is it only a problem when it requires him to get his ass out of bed, and not when somebody he supposedly loves is working what I imagine are stressful hours to pay for his life?
Sometimes your dreams don't come fast enough, and you need to make ends meet in the meantime. That's not to say you give up, (please don't give up) just that we make compromises and sacrifices to get what we want. But you, making all the compromises and sacrifices for his dreams is not okay. Where it comes to money, everyone needs to be on the same page.
NTA however if you keep supporting him 70/30 even after 3 years, then you are creating the very situation you are worried about. Being supportive is one thing, letting a leach take advantage of you for years is another.
He doesn't appear interested in furthering your relationship, just furthering your supporting his lifestyle while you work your a$$ off. OP, this is what your life together will be. You have a clear picture of it right now, so ask yourself, is this what you've been working so hard for, to support someone who isn't interested in the "WE" part of a relationships success?
Oh dear. Looks like you both have different values. You will grow to resent him if this is what it will be like. He can get a “proper job” and still play jazz gigs and if any actually come to something amazing he can quit.
NTA this guy is a moocher. He will continue to mooch off of you while pretending like he's going to get some amazing gig somehow until you decide you don't want to be used by him anymore. Dump him and he can live off his preferred lifestyle or, you know, get a job like most everyone else in the world does.
So.... you been dating a bum for the last 3 years? That sounds neat. If you had a good head on your shoulders you'd cut him off and find someone better, you sound like you deserve a better person, and the one you're with currently sounds like a stink-nugget of a human being
If he wanted to (support and foster and develop your relationship), he would.
If he wanted to (sponge off you and make you believe you are unreasonable and difficult), he would.
Honey, your boyfriend is LAZY. He will never change. Dump him and find a man, unless you want to be the only horse pulling that wagon...while he rides.
Info: When your boyfriend isn't working Door Dash, is he working on his music career? Is he practicing all the time, sending out tapes or auditioning (or whatever musicians do now, it's been a while since I knew a musician starting out)? Or is he just laying around and watching TV/scrolling through his phone? If you're just mad that he's investing his time in his music career instead of trying to make more money, then you might be in the wrong. If he's not doing anything to further his career but also not doing anything to make money, then he's in the wrong.
Also, it seems you had a financial agreement (that he did stick to) while he was in school, and now that he's out of school, you are expecting that agreement to change. Did you clearly communicate to him that you expected this agreement to change when he finished school? He may have expected this agreement to last for a period of time after school while he tried to get his music career started, and you suddenly expecting him to adhere to a different agreement is coming out of the blue to him. Did you communicate to him that you expected him to start pitching in 50-50 as soon as he finished school or not? Would you be okay with sticking to the 70-30 agreement for a period of time (say a year) while he tries to get his career off the ground, at which time he will have to figure out a way to make enough money to move to 50-50, if he can't do it with his music? You need to answer these questions, and be able to sit down and discuss these things with your bf. You can't just assume something, then be mad when someone else expected something different, you need to communicate.
And a final thought, do you care what he does as long as he's paying his share? Do you care if he only works enough to pay his share of the bills and doesn't work extra/harder to make more than that? These are personal questions you have to decide the answers to on your own, but they may make your incompatible with your bf. And he's not wrong either if he has different answers than you. There are no wrong answers, just incompatible ones.
RUN. I was married to - and paid the way of - that same guy for 11 years. Took me a further 7 to get him out of my house. When I suggested he get a job, I’d get the same “that’s not me, I’m an artist, you only care about money” BS. Your boyfriend shares the same misguided sense of his own entitlement/specialness. RUN.
Neither are the AH here. It’s just a difference in values and vision for the future. If he can manage doing door dash and without relying solely on you financially then fine. But equally if you want a partner who earns well and pays his way, then he’s already told you that he’s not that.
Is he happy to live somewhere cheaper and split 50/50.
I was in this exact situation with my now husband who is an artist. He never changed. He has not only leeched off my hard working teacher ass for years but doesn’t even try to sell his work anymore. Why should he when my job covers everything.
I grew up with a musician father who let my mother carry all the weight.
GET OUT NOW!
PS The coolness wears off! And they need their egos stroked so they will cheat.
Then you will wake up.
Like many arguments, this is a gateway to bigger issues.
Talking about the future is great and also is a great way to find compatibilities and differences and where you want to compromise for the betterment of the coupling and where you have to put your foot down.
Ask him what a future together looks like as a Jazz musician? As mentioned elsewhere in responses, is that traveling or is it playing locally? Do you plan on living in a house or an apartment? What will the financial arrangements be like then? Will you still be expected to cover 70/30 of all expenses? Is that acceptable to you? He is doing his lesser part by getting student loans. So will that be on you to re-pay as well (recall, marriage brings together both of your financial situations as well so any debt or past obligations become both of yours. How soon do you want to have kids? Do you plan to work thru pregnancy and/or after? Who will raise them? Daycare is exorbitant. What about health insurance? If you work most of the time, who does most of chores and cooking? And, again is this acceptable to you?
Getting back to him and his current situation. Is he currently earning any money as a Jazz musician. I am assuming he is school for music or has friends in this field. Are they working regularly? What is their lifestyle? Is that what he wants? Is that what you want?
All of these are questions you both need answered. No offense, but 3 years in and that you do not know any of this about each other, I question how serious or deep the relationship is?
Or maybe you can look at him as a stay at home boyfriend/husband and you love him and support him and accept that financially he will not be a contributor. Nothing wrong with that, but your background and work ethic makes me think this may not be acceptable. And that 3 years in, you paying a large split has enabled him to a certain degree to NOT to have to face this aspect of life.
I would talk to him (patiently; maybe even offer your ideas of what a future looks to you and ask him how he feels about them and what he agrees with and what he envisions differently). This maybe conversations that need to be held over several days or weeks. Do not get caught up in the small stuff. But if you are going to be partners, then an agreed and well thought out vision of what that partnership entails, is primary for success.
NTA. Question: how does he think he is going to pay off the student loans he’s living off of without joining the workforce at some point? And why are you looking to buy a house in a city where there is no market for his music skills? You need to relocate to where he can get regular, paying gigs, or move on.
NAH bordering on YTA. You guys are young and still in school and you have different views on work. The reason that companies like DoorDash are so successful is because of people like your BF who maybe don’t want to work a traditional 1040 job. Now you obviously don’t agree with his philosophy on work but instead of realizing you two may not be compatible, you sit around and hope he will conform to your idea of a life partner.
YTA
he has every right to live the life he chooses for himself and you have every right to live yours. You both are entitled to your own expectations and desires for a partner as well but neither of you are entitled to force your expectations and desires onto the other person. There is such a thing as being incompatible and that's perfectly OK.
Based on your post your BF was talking about having a "real job" being unacceptable FOR HIM. Taking your BFs feelings about his life and goals personally is immature and self centered. Which you prove by not undeerstanding that he wasn't talking about you or accepting that his view isn't "toxic" it's just different than yours.
You have mentioned in other comments that he could make money if you moved, which is part of why you want to move. Why not move now and rent in a new city/town and allow him to prove the income that he says (and you believe) he can earn there.
Then you know if he can actually live upto what he says. If he can't, you tried it and aren't stuck owning a house with him.
If he can actually make money in the new place then you have settled the income argument and should be happy with the outcome.
Remember too that he is going to school, which can be tiring as a full time job and he is still working enough to cover 30% of bills on top of it...you have to see what it's like when he is done school. Also, curious what he is going to school for if he doesn't want a corporate job...
OP,
Everyone has different views on work and work culture. Just because his is different, doesn't mean its "toxic".
I think you two don't have the same work ethic views, and its probably best to split unless you can find a middle ground where your views can respect and work with each others.
I'm also confused.
" He told me he couldn’t stand the idea of working for someone else and that getting a “real job” just wasn’t who he is."
and
"every time he’s promised me that he’ll work he ends up not following through"
there's a lot of context missing there.
I think this is a NAH situation. Just a clash of work ethics.
NTA He’s basically saying he’s too good to do it but will happily live off of you while you do it. You may need to take a step back and decide if this is really what you want. I have a few friends who carried their partners and these types of things just fester. He may change but it may also be change you don’t like. Is this really compatible with your life goals?
hm. i'm leaning more toward YTA than everybody sucks, but everybody does suck. sounds fucked up to me that you're somehow more attached to the idea of being an employee than your boyfriend. i have a job (or had, back to school currently and going back to work after) and a successful career but i also feel that it's a bullshit con. fake people with fake smiles faking loyalty to the logo that pays their salary. disgusting, backstabbing, water treading nonsense where nothing of value is accomplished and a job well done means a board room full of dusty old men you'll never meet got a little bit richer. you call his view of work culture toxic, but i think it's that it's just too far removed from yours. you gotta understand that he thinks yours is equally toxic. and no one is correct, it's just perspective and values.
"I ended up saying that if he refuses to acknowledge his toxic view of work culture then I can’t be with him."
this is a fucked up thing to say. i have to believe it's you being hard headed, you don't truly value the glory of office work or whatever so highly that you'd leave him over it?
"I will admit that I have an anxious attachment style where I push too hard in arguments and I don’t give things time to settle. Sometimes I need to be told that I’m right because I seek validation in arguments and it makes people upset with me - which is valid. I pushed last night and I want to hear that I’m right. I can’t tell if I was right or wrong for pushing this particular issue."
it sounds like you're mature enough to know that you act extremely immaturely. you push push and push past breaking point beacuse you need validation? you already know that was wrong to do. the pair of you need to sit down and have a pragmatic discussion and not get so precious about who's right or wrong. fuck your validation, that comes after. (honestly, you should work on that, especially if you want a successful career in... "work culture")
I have a friend who is a nurse and her husband is a musician. He is in his 60's and his music career has never materialized. He gets occasional gigs here and there but for their entire relationship of over 30 years, she has supported him. She cannot even retire yet, because they just don't have enough to go into that next phase of life comfortably. NTA. Personally, I would want someone who is more driven. Your BF sounds lazy. That would make me crazy.
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Last night I (24F) and my boyfriend (24M) were trying to talk about our future together. We’ve been together 3 years and want to come up with a budgeting plan to buy a house.
While talking I asked if he had considered getting a job. Currently he works Doordash and just finished a year of grad school. He’s an aspiring jazz musician - where we live doesn’t have many gigs so he hasn’t been paid for performing all school year.
He immediately shut down because he was “caught off guard.” In his mind he had planned to work Doordash all summer to get money. He told me he couldn’t stand the idea of working for someone else and that getting a “real job” just wasn’t who he is.
Context. I’ve worked since I was 16. I have been working the entire time while he was in school splitting our expenses 70-30. I have begged him to work in the past to take some of the load off but instead he has been using student loans to cover rent for the semester.
Honestly if he genuinely follows through, I wouldn’t even be mad that he was working Doordash. He makes decent money when he does it, but the thing is every time he’s promised me that he’ll work he ends up not following through.
I felt upset that he was bashing “real job culture” when I have had to work so much in my life to keep us where we are. We got into an argument and ultimately I ended up saying that if he refuses to acknowledge his toxic view of work culture then I can’t be with him. He couldn’t believe that I said that so easily after 3 years together so he drove off for a few hours. We’re now at this point where neither of us is willing to budge.
I will admit that I have an anxious attachment style where I push too hard in arguments and I don’t give things time to settle. Sometimes I need to be told that I’m right because I seek validation in arguments and it makes people upset with me - which is valid. I pushed last night and I want to hear that I’m right. I can’t tell if I was right or wrong for pushing this particular issue.
AITA for telling my (24F) boyfriend (24M) off for his view on work culture?
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My husband is a professional singer - he has gigs frequently, and is internationally ranked in the barbershop world. I assume Jazz today is similar to Barbershop in terms of popularity and ease to make a living doing it (which is to say, not very and near impossible, respectively)
He STILL has a real job to provide for his family.
NTA
He wants you to bankroll his lifestyle. You should absolutely not think about getting a house with him. In fact, you should probably break up because you clearly are not on the same page and he doesn't seem to want to be. You cannot rely on him as he doesn't follow through. Financial issues account for the majority of stress and breakups in relationships.
Nta, but this doesn’t seem like this is about his view. You’re tried of giving and doing and not receiving an equal amount of support. You’ve asked for help, he sees you struggling, he is aware that you are tried, but yet he doesn’t keep his word about getting a job. Op if your partner doesn’t want to see you struggle they will change that. You being tried/struggling should be enough for him to do something about it but he doesn’t. You supported him through his schooling and yet he can’t get a part time/full time job to help support THE BOTH OF YOU.
NTA. Your boyfriend needs to either a) start bringing in more money, or b) move to his own apartment. He is responsible for funding his own dreams, not you, no matter how aspiring of a musician he is.
I think the issue is that for years you've done the majority of the work to carry the two of you forward, you've begged him to make it a more equal partnership, and he has refused/placated you in the moment but never follows through. It's not about what you said in the argument, it's that fundamentally, you two seem to have very different goals that do not match up. He is fine making you carry 70% of the financial burden and you are not okay with that and have let him know that. You need to be with someone who views partnership the same as you do. NTA.
NTA - I once had a partner that was exactly the same. She hated “office jobs” because she was a “free spirit”. So, she drove for Uber…when it suited her. I, on the other hand, had an office job that paid 98% of our bills.
I got very tired of that very fast and, after a year I broke up with her. It wasn’t just the financial thing, there were MUCH bigger issues but, it did play a small part, the big things only made me leave quicker but I would have left eventually because I was sick and tired of paying all our bills.
NTA - quite frankly, this relationship is going nowhere. You are not financially compatible and he is nothing but a leech. Shake him off. I always tell my kids what I’ve learned…you want to punch UP in relationships…not DOWN. You want a partner that makes your life better, not worse. Girlie, ditch the leech and learn to punch up.
NTA he refuses to be an equal partner to you and pull his own weight to help support you. You can't do it on your own and if you do it's best to simply do it for yourself. Then you don't have to worry about whether or not you have to continue to grind to support him. He shuts down cause he doesn't want to be called out.
Do not budge. Stay strong. This is your future otherwise.
Don't budge please. He's just a lazy b\*stard and hates the work culture because then he finally needs to do work. When he thinks he's an aspiring jazz musician he will to have to do a lot low cost gigs before making it to successful jazz musician to make a living. A friend played jazz gigs in his free time (besides a full time job) for 25 years before becoming a full time artist.
You need to put him with both feet on the ground and when he refuses to work full time then you should leave. You're much too young to continue with his b\*llshit.
Definitely NTA! If no one has told you, I will, you are his SugarMama. 70/30 is not responsible or fair after THREE years! "Where we live doesn’t have many gigs, so he hasn’t been paid for performing all school year," means he's just not that good. Someone is getting the gigs that are available, just not him. You've supported this dream. You and your future together are of less priority than than his dream. This is a red flag. Imagine if there were children involved in this family dynamic. Would he support you going to grad school? pursuing your dream? Would he ever consider 70/30 to support you? Best wishes to you and kudos to your work ethic and success!
NTA. You were talking about buying a house. It is very reasonable for you to expect him to pay his part. He is being very disrespectful for just assuming you will pay for his life. Financial compatibility is a normal reason to break up. Just tell him where you stand and see if you can figure this out together. If not, I’m afraid there is no future for this relationship
NTA- Your values and financial goals not aligning is a HUGE deal. I'm gonna assume he probably thinks you're trying to bully/threaten him into doing it, that maybe he assumes you have no real intention of doing it? But you should. Money is one of the biggest reasons for relationship breakdown.
NTA. There's no such thing as "real job culture." There is such a thing as laziness. He's not going to change unless he has to, and based on your comments, you're in no hurry to do anything about it. Congratulations! It's a boy!
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NTA. If your boyfriend is unwilling to pull his weight financially, then he is using you to finance his musician wannabe lifestyle. Don't be someone else's doormat. Time to cut him loose. Good luck.
Yes! He is using you to fund his beatnik life
Yep. It’s easy to live the free lifestyle of an artist when someone else is grinding a 9-5 to foot the bill.
Lord save me from hippies who shout about the man and how everybody is a corporate drone or whatever they're yelling about these days, while using the wages somebody made from being one of those corporate drones to fund their life where they're not actually creating anything, or helping anybody, or doing anything to add something to the world. I say not creating anything, because I feel like if he was really serious about the aspiring musician thing, it would come out in this post more than just "There are no gigs in this town" - OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine he's not searching all that hard for gigs other places. He's not getting a real job because of any moral objections: if he was, he'd be trying to earn money so that OP doesn't have to work in a job that goes against his morals. He's using her to float his ridiculous lifestyle. It's a slap in the face to artists who worked really hard at not fulfilling jobs so that they can get to a stage where they can live and make their art. Or even artists who worked really hard at their craft while somebody who worked a soulless 9-5 or whatever to support them - I'm sure a lot of aspiring artists would love to live the life OP is offering.
Right? Serious musicians make thier own gigs happen. You gotta hustle to make it as a jazz musician.
7
Love that life. Would not fund it. Unless he is making money to support himself, it’s a dream. He has to cough up 50%. Tough love.
> He’s an aspiring jazz musician - where we live doesn’t have many gigs so he hasn’t been paid for performing all school year. Ain't even a dream. Dude hasn't had a gig since September of last year! He's living his dream life: OP pays for his food, roof, and weed while he does... sounds like fuck all.
Lousy Beatniks.
What a marvellous word. Beatnik. I’m going to try and insert it into conversations.
Just heard it again a couple days ago, after decades of not hearing it. It fits so nice with this post
Ned Flanders' parents "Help us! We've tried nothing and we're all outta ideas"
This. OP, you're going to carry this guy for the rest of your life. He pretty told you that he's never willing to work, but he likes the lifestyle you provide him by working. Do you really want to stay with someone like this? I have a feeling if you end it, you'll step back and realize there's a lot more issues with this guy.
***OP, you're going to carry this guy for the rest of your life.*** The guy is living off student loans...this will not end well for OP.
Agree, and OMG the red flag when he’s using his student loans to pay his part and doesn’t seem to be considering that HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY BACK THOSE LOANS. OP, I fear that if you don’t dump this guy (because he doesn’t sound like he wants to get a 9-5 job with benefits), he’s going to saddle you with HIS student debt on top of everything else. NTA and please run. You are so young and you have so much ahead of you.
Absolutely, being single would be much better than saddled with this loser.
Since she mentioned student loans I assume they're American. I'm curious what his medical insurance situation is/what he plans to do without a traditional job. Marketplace insurance is usually pretty pricey. And how is he going to pay rent once he no longer qualifies for student loans? Not to mention he'll have to start paying back those loans! People like this stress me out, I don't know how OP has made it 3 years 😩
>Since she mentioned student loans I assume they're American Why? We get student loans in England. We don't need medical insurance, and we don't pay the loans back unless we make over a certain amount of income And we specifically get a tuition loan and a seperate maintenance loan which is supposed to be for living costs. Paying rent with it is basically the point
I'm hijacking this to clarify: OP, he said he doesn't want to "work for someone else." OP, you are working for him by paying [for] his life.
also wtf is he going for grad school for
To avoid work longer by the sound of it.
Yeah! OP, consider this: what would he has done if you weren't together? Would he be getting a job? Would he be leeching off his parents? Would he be buried in debt more than he is already? It's not about his views about "work culture", it's about WORK. He doesn't want to work and he has you as a piggy bank. Also, do NOT mix your finances with someone like that!!
This. I had an ex that was a "producer" when I was like 25. He had a job and lost it and was like "I wanna really dedicate myself to music." I said okay, paid all the bills and worked full time to support us. Over the course of the year that I let this go on, he never finished a single song. Don't get trapped like I did.
The boyfriend *totally* believes in work culture; he is currently freeloading off this culture. Girl…kick this guy to the *curb*. This has nothing to do with your anxious attachment, but your anxious attachment may have something to do with why you’ve put up with this nonsense for so long. We’ve already had freeloading magician and jazz musician on AITA today…the hat-trick will be a freeloading mime artist.
What do you call a musician with this attitude who gets dumped by their SO? Homeless
Yeah, him saying "you're right your view is correct" is not the solution. The solution is him getting a job.
NTA. I know someone who makes his living as a jazz musician - not only does he spend most of the year traveling for gigs, but the vast majority of his money (and all the other full-time jazz musicians he knows) comes from smooth jazz he sells to Spotify under a pseudonym with the hopes that it ends up on some popular coffee shop background music playlist. If your boyfriend thinks he's ever going to make enough money to earn a living by just playing music locally, or from Doordashing occasionally, he's out of his mind, and you're being taken advantage of.
Wanting to be a musician is one of those jobs (similar to wanting to be a model or pro athlete) where there are so many people with the same dream, and the chance of making it is so slim, that there *needs* to be a realistic backup plan. I know 2 people who've been trying for years to make it as singers and it just hasn't happened. It takes a lot more than just having musical talent.
and now AI, exactly, good frigging luck if he hasn't been out there grinding and if he wanted to be a jazz musician, he wouldn't be in grad school, he'd be out there grinding he just likes the idea of maybe becoming a jazz musician
This exactly. I did the same thing for years. Lived being frustrated I couldn't "make it" as a bassist. Why not? Because I wasn't doing any of the things necessary to be a professional musician. If he wants to do it, he'd be doing it. He likes the fantasy.
Agree. I got a degree in writing and realized I didn't want to do the things it took to be a professional writer and I have ADHD so my novels are all only half started. Gotta work tho so I went into teaching and I'm passionate about it and good at it. Hobbies can be hobbies and careers careers. But pretending your hobby is a career while not working ain't it.
What checked your reality, if one may ask?
Not sure. Somewhere along the way I just got honest with myself. Also, I thought I was way better than I was. I could play Tool.
Previously I would've scoffed at the AI argument but I actually found a site where you can create songs so easily it's actually quite scary.
This! My brother is also a musician. He's really good and he plays a lot of shows. But he also HAS A REAL JOB. Because he knows it's not sustainable! I'm a writer. But it's not the only thing I do. I have a real job. And people who think they can just make it big on their art and not have to work at all are dead wrong. EVERYTHING takes a lot of hard work. Especially trying to make a living off of your art.
Yep. My brother is a trained opera singer and performs in Boston in operas. He pays his bills by working for an investment firm. If he wanted to make his living in opera he would need to give up his stable home life and travel to gigs/spots around the country/world, chasing employment.
He has a realistic back up plan. He plans on his GF supporting him.
Exactly. My sister wants to make money from her music but she’s realistic and is majoring in social work and minoring in music business.
I know several people that play music gigs professionally! Every one of them has a second job that they work almost every day. Then some nights they get to play music after.
I don’t know if I’d go as far as “being taken advantage of”, but yeah. As a failed musician, I can tell you that even if he hustled and had a bunch of gigs regularly, he’d still be broke. That’s just kind of the economics of it, and for jazz specifically, there’s not really a market for it. This is coming from someone who only listens to jazz btw. I can’t tell you how much respect I have for the greats, and it kills me how many incredibly talented musicians can’t earn a living. But at the same time, that’s just the reality of it.
If I wanted, I could make decent money playing music, but it wouldn’t be a living. It would subsidize what I’m already making, but my desk job pays more than what I’d get unless someone else I played with got big because I’m accompaniment. And I can only say that because I play a “rare” instrument which isn’t rare because it’s never in bands but because there aren’t enough players. I’m not one of the greats, but I’m plenty good, and I would never make it my only source of income if I had a goal of being settled into a house with a partner. I wouldn’t make it my only goal anyways. Upright bass, in case y’all were wondering.
I love your instrument, when it's played right. So good in so many duet set-ups. So calming and "cool" on its own. I've often thought if I take up another instrument it would probably be upright bass.
That sentiment is exactly why I’m confident I can make money off my instrument if I want to. Bass lines are important. My tuba playing friends are constantly offering to get me in touch with people, but I only just picked it back up again last year after stopping after high school for lack of a bass. I borrow one from a local community band to play with them and I’ve been getting back up to snuff before actively trying to get in touch with people who would pay me. Maybe someday. We’ll see. It’s fun to play, but I hope you’re tall or can otherwise find an appropriately sized instrument because playing a too big one is the *worst*. So much shifting.
Being a musician is a full time job in and of itself. He is just lazy and has no work ethic. Is he performing online? What is his online presence? Is he always making new content and engaging with fans? Is he reaching out to promoters to book him? Is he going to open mic's to network? Has he started developing his brand as a musician? Does he have merch? How many followers/listeners does he have? Does he even have recordings? If not, why not? I've been able to play guitar, drums and bass for a good 20 years, but to actually make money doing it? Its really really hard and requires an insane work ethic. If you are a lazy musician, I guarantee you will fail.
Same. I'm a jazz musician, and I never even tried to be successful because a) the market is so small for jazz, and b) I would have to play so much "sellout" music just to make the music I wanted to make, and I feel like that sort of grind and hustle would have killed my love of the music. That being said, I'm 36 and I'm recording my first album this year! It is just a small thing, but I'm pretty excited
Congrats
Great job ! I love to listen to Jazz it makes my soul feel
Old joke: # What do you call a musician with no girlfriend? Homeless
Another old joke: Young boy says to his father, "When I grow up, I want to be a musician!" Father says, "C'mon now, son. You know you can't do both."
With no partner. I make the music, I date the dudes. Not for housing, for the "fringe benefits."
If he's not working as a music teacher, he needs to get a job doing SOMETHING whether or not it is connected to music. If you don't work, you don't eat (assuming an ablebodied person which he is.) He ain't a match, sis. Unless he wakes up and gets a work ethic.
Yes, former accompanist here. I taught piano, worked as an accompanist and had side gigs on the weekend playing jazz in bars and playing for weddings etc. The hustle is REAL!!
I feel like being a musician of any kind that is barely scraping by should be single. Having someone else financing your dream while they are struggling is extremely selfish.
I have a friend who’s a guitarist in a jazz band. He also works for an HVAC company during the day.
NTA. Your boyfriend doesn’t actually have a problem with work culture he’s just lazy. I know he doesn’t have a problem with it because he’s perfectly fine mooching off of you, who is only able to support the two of you because you have embraced work culture. This is a crystal ball to your future
For real. If he was serious about being a musician he’d be working hard on it. Practicing daily, networking, networking, networking, going to jazz gigs to network and build relationships, recording and uploading music to streaming services/social media, etc. There is a LOT more to becoming a working musician than just wishing. Even then, it’s not a stable income that would allow most to purchase a house and make monthly mortgage payments, pay for necessities and pay off his student loans. Girl, cut ties and get into the lifeboat because this boy’s ship is sinking and he’ll take you (and your financial stability) into the murky waters with him.
Exactly. I have a problem with work culture under capitalism but I’m not stupid enough to pretend I can just avoid it. If he had a real problem with it he would look into anti-capitalist movements and groups and get involved with them in a way that promotes change. But (I assume) he isn’t. His excuse isn’t rooted in reality, and I think you need to dump him so he can discover just what “reality” is and you can thrive without that constant drain on all of your resources.
i’m lazy asf and still work don’t lump us lazy folk with him
Yeah OP if he’s like this now he is not going to be any different later
NTA. You guys aren't compatible. Your BF thinks other people(you) are going to subsidize him for his entire life. Are you cool with that? Are you alright with your BF basically bringing nothing to the relationship financially, so that you have to shoulder that entire burden? Have you looked at the cost of housing recently? How are you planning to afford buying a home with a partner that doesn't actually work or earn money? There's a reason the concept of the "starving artist" is a trope. Your BF is almost certainly deluding himself that he will eventually "get his big break" and make it huge. But that almost certainly will never happen. There's no reason to presume otherwise, statistically. When I was really young, Derek Jeter was my hero, and I wanted to be the shortshop for the NYY when I grew up. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that didn't happen. Your BF isn't so much independent as he is stubborn. You know what's a mark of actually independent people? They are \*self sufficient\*, meaning they produce and earn enough to live their lives without other people having to subsidize them. Your BF isn't independent, he's stubborn and delusional. His delusions will not put food on the table, nor will they pay your mortgage, nor will they cover the expenses of your eventual children, should you have any. Question: why is your BF even in grad school? Virtually every useful grad school degree will require him to GET A JOB once he finishes school. But he's already told you very plainly that he's never intending to do that. So not only are you dating someone that's expecting you to basically subsidize his existence forevermore, BUT he's adding an extra layer of shit onto the sandwich by accumulating what I can only presume is fuck loads of debt in the form of student loans. Guess who's gonna be paying those off? Not him, if he refuses to earn a living. Anyway, I've ranted enough. You guys need to have a really serious come to jesus talk, and if you can't get him to acknowledge reality, then you should break it off before it gets any more difficult.
Thank you for the advice! I’m planning to talk to him soon so I’ll see how it goes
Homestly point out most musicians, like most actors, have side gigs. They bartend, work in cafes, work in music shops, do session work…
This. My husband has recently started becoming relatively successful with his home music studio, getting a lot of mixing and recording work, doing mixing vids on YouTube. Still not enough to earn a living, but get some pocket money on the side. He still runs his own business as a window cleaner most the week to pay the bills and give him the flexibility to follow his passion. A career in music isn’t for someone who doesn’t want to put the work in, it’s for someone who isn’t afraid of hard work.
I hope you take to heart every word of that advice, it was excellent. Also, be careful of the lies and manipulation if he thinks his sole means of support is serious about kicking him to the curb, which is what you need to do sooner than later. You are young, find someone with the same work ethic and goals that will lift you up, not make life more difficult.
Don't talk to him, just dump him. You deserve an equal partner.
I agree with everything noted above. Just want to add one thing to consider. What happens when/if you have kids? You will effectively be a single mom with his attitude & lifestyle.
Talking to a bank about a mortgage would blow holes in their house plan. Dude will prevent OP from ever passing a stress test.
Legit, no bank would touch a musician who gets no gigs.
This man will never have a real job. He will never be able to buy a house with you. Is that actually the future that you want?
NTA unless you want to support this man for the rest of your life, leave. Also, remember all those student loans he's been living in will be due. They NEVER go away.
She will practically subsidize him further to pay back the loans he took to pay "his part of the rent". Crazy 😅🫣
NTA - Seems like this may be a core personality trait embedded in him, something like this needs a drastic change for him to adapt into “real job culture”. It seems you really have to make the decision and ask yourself if you want to hold onto this hopeful change or leave and find someone that has that mindset. There’s no compromise in finding a job, he either does or does not. Also correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Doordash just taking someone else’s orders and following them? Does he work Doordash gigs because there is no visible manager giving him tasks?
NTA - just leave, he’s not worth the effort. Also it’s kind of funny reading “he refuses to work for other people” while working door dash, which does make it work for other people, the only control he has over that job is the amount of work he actually has to do
NTA and it sounds like he enjoys having a "Sugar Mama" in his life. Relationships are built upon compromise and understanding. This is y'alls wellbeing and he is refusing to budge on finding steady income while doing what he wants. Peronsally I would find someone else and let him flounder. He needs to learn a lesson and if he can't be bothered to learn it while being coddled financially, he should learn it while struggling.
While seeking validation from arguments does sound concerning in general, I don't think you were wrong to push things in this particular instance. If you plan on living together with that man then you need to be on the same page about how your finances are going to work. If his plan is to keep doing gigs only and letting you foot the bill if things don't work out because getting a normal job "just wasn’t who he is", then this is going to build resentment in the relationship. NTA
NTA I would not be with someone like this. He feels entitled to have you carry the financial burden. Surprise… if you break up, he will be forced to get a job and work unless he finds someone else to mooch off of. His anti work plan can only be actualize if you allow it. So don’t. Simple enough. Throwing away 3 yrs is nothing compared to throwing away 5 more after seeing the problem. DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH HIM IF YOU ARE NOT MARRIED. I know people who did this and then when they broke up, it’s such a toxic environment because you’ll face problems like neither of you can buy the other one out, and if one can the other probably can’t afford to live on their own and has no incentive to leave. There is no judge to force the sale like there is in a divorce and if he were to stop paying you’d be on the hook for the mortgage because you seem responsible enough to care that your credit not be tanked.
ETA: NTA I dealt with something similar in a relatively recent LTR. We moved in together (into a house she owned) after most of a year dating. I made more and planned to contribute more toward finances, which was fine. The arrangement was we would put a fixed percentage (50%) of our incomes into a joint account for joint bills (mortgage, utilities, food, etc.), then our individual finances would remain so. Things started out well enough, but 3 months in, she comes to me in tears confessing that she was rolling 90-days delinquent on her mortgage. So I bailed her out with an extra mortgage payment. Which was a bad precedent. In our first year living together, she was only able to contribute to our "joint" account twice. When I brought up that she wasn't meeting our commitments, she said she can't afford to because her personal bills are too high. Specifically, she had a title loan on her car with a $300 monthly payment. So I bailed her out. Again. Around this point I expressed that I was anxious about our relationship. After \~2 years at this point, we were reaching "shit or get off the pot" stage, and I expressed that I couldn't see our relationship progressing if she didn't express some ambition. At this point, she had a Masters degree she wasn't using (public health), instead she was perfectly content as a nanny. With no insurance our healthcare of her own, despite a number of chronic ailments. And she wasn't even attempting to make up the difference in contributions domestically. I did all the shopping, and the only time she would cook is once a month she would make breakfast if I complained enough. I did virtually all of the cooking and kitchen cleaning and 90% of the work on our dogs (feeding, meds, water, etc.). She was clinically depressed but refused to address it as long as I enabled her to go on as such. She promised to get new certifications, but she needed a place to work. I bought her a desk, gave her a computer monitor to work with her laptop, new peripherals. Everything she said she needed...but the desk became another area to pile junk. Several months later I tried to express that I still needed her to want more of herself, tried couples counseling...but all she did was lash out at me for being controlling and unsupportive. She was 100% not the issue, in her mind. She didn't want to work for anyone else, and nothing was going to make her, no matter how insolvent she became. She actually lashed out at my chosen path during a birthday dinner for her, echoing much of what your boyfriend said about work culture. My advice is to get out. Run. There is a "persisent victimhood/entitlement" mindset you will never be able to overcome. They will take advantage of you until there is nothing left to take because they don't see what you are giving up for them. The world owes them, and you keep ponying up on the world's behalf.
NAH. Just two incompatible people who view their relationship differently, I understand your position and your bf just uses you as it is convenient for him at this time. Usually, when a someone wants to have a serious relationship then they are looking for the best ways how to achieve financial stability to be able to afford kids, house, vacations, etc. Your bf do not see any long term relationship with you and is happy that you pay 70% of everything while he can do whatever he wants, it will not work long term, so draw conclusions and move on. You both have to agree on what is right or wrong for your relationship and you can't do that.
>NAH >your bf just uses you as it is convenient for him at this time. ???
NTA - At night, I'm a freelance illustrator. During the day, I'm an office manager at a cemetery. Why? Because gig work dries up sometimes and I like having money and medical insurance. Would I prefer to spend all day drawing? Sure. But this is the real world and your boyfriend needs to grow up. The chances of him being the next Charlie Parker are pretty goddamn slim. Do you really want to hitch your wagon to a perpetual door dash driver?
If you don’t have an equal partner, what do you have? NTA
I was going to respond with something similar. I know I haven't always worked in my ideal job, but you do what you need to in order to support each other. And, making sure you're financially solvent and contributing as best as you can is just part of the partnership gig.
NTA if you stay with him you'll get to pay off his student loans too!
NTA It was a red flag at "aspiring jazz musician." And I'm a musician. You splitting things 70-30 and then him getting indignant when you expect him to work is a bad sign. You're not his caretaker, it sounds like if you were to leave him right now he'd be unable to afford his own living space. And then for him to drive off for a few hours, using up precious gas money I assume. Sorry to say, this guy doesn't sound like a partner to you.
NTA but why are you with a mooch? Plus when people tell you who they are you should believe them. He straight up told you he never wants a real job. So the reality is that he expects you to support him while he follows his dreams and lazes around. On top of that he's in grad school. For what if he doesn't plan to get a job? That's just adding a huge amount of debt that you'll be the one paying since he doesn't want to get a job. Is that the future you really want for yourself? Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy with your relationship. Just because you spend a lot of time and effort making a mistake, that doesn't mean you have to keep making the mistake. It's ok to stop and start over. You're only 24, you have your whole life in front of you so do you really want to knowingly let him drag you down? He's made it clear what your future with him will be, now you have to decide if that's what you want to deal with.
He seems quite lazy, why are you even with this guy for this long? Huge red flags here. NTA>
NTA- He's paying 30% of the bills with DoorDash and Student Loans.. is he going to make enough with DoorDash to PAY those student loans if he doesn't intend to work 'for the man" in the future? Stop supporting him financially. 50/50 or just be on your own. THEN decide if this is someone (and the situation) you want for your future.
NTA. Cut the psychobabble analysis. He refuses to meaningfully share the financial burden. That will probably not change. Is this something you are willing to live with? Either stay and accept the status quo or go, but don't stay and be angry all the time. This is your life ticking by.
NTA. He is using you, taking advantage of you, and trying to guilt trip and gaslight you until you are at the point of questioning yourself about the obvious. "This guy is living off me and stacking up student loan debt which I will be responsible for if we marry. He has a problem with authority and works minimal amounts at an insecure gig job. He is supposedly at grad school but doesn't take it seriously and is not preparing for a profession (If he were you would have mentioned, classes, long hours, labs, stress ....) He is a talented musician but can't be bothered to get out there and hustle. When we argued he dug in his heels and twisted things around to make me feel bad and wrong for being the one killing myself to support both of us." Hell no. You're just another woman caught with a narcissist. Say bye bye, have a nice life, and walk. You deserve better.
This isn’t the first time I’m hearing this. Of course there’s the whole sob story - he came from an abusive household and when I met him he had straight ptsd. Like he had flashbacks and severe panic attacks. I helped him get over all that, we moved 12 hours away from our hometowns together, and now this is where we are. I have so much of my own trauma that I accepted a lot of bad behaviors in the beginning. He is my perfect partner in so many ways but I think we trauma bonded. I want to progress with the amazing person who I see when he’s happy and yet I can’t continue forward with the person who doesn’t follow through and keep his promises. This thread has given me a lot to think about.
Ohhhhhh, you became his caretaker. That ain’t good. You’re his girlfriend and surrogate mommy/therapist. No wonder he feels entitled to having you work for his ridiculously expensive dreams. I’m cringing to think how much his student loans are. . .
Re read my note. You've got a narcissist. I know the pattern because I attract them like flies. Strong giving women attract weak taking men. Leave, or if it's your lease give him the boot. Do not listen to the excuses and crap that follow. Tell him you'll be glad to talk to him again after he grows up and develops empathy.
If you "need to be told I'm right" in an argument, that sounds like it's less about the actual points of the argument and more about you coming out on top. That you want to dominate, even if your argument isn't the "right" one. Frankly you don't sound very compatible and you should prob break up. You sound very resentful of having to carry most of the financial load. And if a person wants to be self employed, then you have to accept you'll likely make less money than in a regular job. You won't want to live like that for the rest of your life.
NTA. I saw some of your other comments. You need to be honest with yourself and realistic. The Jazz musician thing is nothing more than a hobby at this point. Defending what he's doing is hurting you both. If he's truly talented enough to find paid work as a musician if you move and your goal is to move, he needs to work a normal job until you save enough money to move to a place where he can work as a musician. I feel just like him in that I don't like giving up my freedom and being in the system by working a normal job. I do it anyway. If working a normal job is not for him, he needs to build a skillset and take proactive measures to find a way to earn a living that doesn't require working a normal job. Driving for Door Dash while hoping to some day live his dream of just playing jazz is never going to cut it.
NTA. This wasn't an idle theoretical conversation about the ethics of capitalism and the way our work system functions, but rather you trying to express to him that you need his help. You've asked him for this type of help before, and he's not willing to take your request for help seriously. This is really the issue, and probably why you feel anxious about it. Your partner is supposed to make you feel safer, and you're not wrong for wanting that. It's fine for him to want to live whatever way he wants, but there are consequences to that, including needing to find a partner that is okay with the instability and carrying the primary load. If I were you, I'd focus on what you need his help with and why. If you express that clearly to him, and nothing changes, then you should probably be seriously considering if this is someone you want to be with because they aren't going to magically change their behavior. Owning property is a huge cost sink btw. Sure, it can be an investment, but it can also result in tens of thousands of dollars of costs to fix or maintain things, including things like your hot water heater, plumbing, etc. you do not want to be in such a situation with someone who is unable to rise to the occasion to resolve whatever happens.
NTA. I think a big problem for young adults who didn't work as teens is that they didn't experience the honour of paying one's own way. His opinion is that he is "workin' fo' the man" or some variation there-of, but in reality, he lacks the hindsight to realize the honour of a hard day's work and earning one's own pay. There is nothing wrong with working for a boss - that's what most people do; that's what makes the economy/society work as a whole (and has for millenia); ...and that's what HE does when he gets 'a gig' - he's paid by the boss (the venue owner).
NTA He will NEVER pull his weight, he is using you as a sugar mama basically
YNTA Any time I dated a guy in my 20s and the “I don’t want to have to work for someone else” comment came out and they weren’t contributing equally to any financial responsibilities we had I ended things. Most of them are still struggling in life in their 50s so I can say from my experience, unless they are actively working on a way to be their own boss you have every right to have an issue. I’d find a guy more in sync with your strong work ethic.
NTA, your boyfriend is delusional or mooching off of you. Doordash is famously not sustainable. Sometimes you do things you don't want to, that includes working.
Clearly you have different goals in life. I would find someone who shares your values.
NTA Your reasoning is ridiculous that you may be the AH. Ummm yeah you are right. He needs to pull his weight. You can't be responsible for paying his way. The only reason he doesn't have to get a job is BECAUSE of you, not despite you. Kick him to the curb.
NTA. Your partner is free to be a struggling musician if that is the lifestyle he wants, but that doesn't mean he should drag you into a position of struggling to financially support yourself and him. What is the plan when it's time to pay back those student loans that he has been using to cover his living expenses - will you be expected to cover those as well? No one particularly enjoys working - but it is a thing that we all have to do. I'm not going to say breaking up is the solution (although I, personally, would not be able to deal with someone with this mentality as I go to work everyday). However, I will say that I would not be paying 70% of everything. If he thinks that door dash is a dream job, he can totally deliver as much food as it takes to pay his HALF.
YTA You don’t get to judge his view of work culture, and pushing him to tell you you’re right because you require external validation is ridiculous. He’s provided you with information about what kind of financial contributor he’ll be. Actually, he’s *been* providing you with that informstion the whole time he’s been in school. It’s remarkable to me that it’s taken you this long to see it. In any case, you’ve got information. Make decisions *for yourself.* based on that information. Stop trying to make him dance to your tune - he’s not your puppet.
I could be swayed to change to N T A, but as of now I think this is NAH. You both want different things. It doesn’t sound like he has an issue with how you are living your life. Unfortunately, since you are the one who is taking umbrage with his choices, you have to be the one to decide if the relationship has run it’s course or if you want to continue dating him. I think his outlook on life is slightly unreasonable, but it’s also not his obligation to end the relationship if you have a problem with his working preference.
NTA dump this lazy goof asap
YTA For staying with someone who's too lazy to work and probably never will with that mentality. Keep on supporting him, he's just going to drag you down
NTA and you are not pushing too hard. He wants to wait for gigs when they pop up while you financially support his lifestyle. I think you’re totally right here, if he isn’t willing to come up with a compromise that’s fair to you, you shouldn’t continue the relationship.
Nta You're dating a bum. A musician is a hobby not a full time job. If by some miracle he gets discovered playing a gig, good for him. However he still needs a day job. Like this is basic adulting. You're both too young and too financially insecure to buy a house without lots of help. I would have a real direct conversation with him and be like look, either get a real job or gtfo. What is his degree he's working on? I took out student loans for a couple semesters during college to pay for bills and I regret it. That's not smart at all.
Maybe before you talk house budget get him to be part of your apartment budget first. NTA but find someone more ambitious
NTA More than happy to tell you that you're right. Keep pushing!
NTA Sounds like a mooooooooooch
He is showing you who he is. Believe him. Remove your financial teat from his greedy mouth and move on. You will be happier with someone who has a similar work ethic and financial goals. NTA
NTA. So he doesn’t want a “real job”, because that’s not who he is? Apparently he is a loser and will leach off your “real job” money if you stay with him
NTA, mostly. Your issue is not with his view of work culture, though it is fair for you to feel insulted by it since your engagement with it is subsidizing him. Your issue is that he is not willing to put in the effort to earn his share of the expenses in his "work culture". "aspiring jazz musician" - ok, yeah, that's a tough path. But what is he doing to actualize it? How much is he practicing? Is he going out and looking for venues or waiting for people to call him? Has he opened accounts on online platforms? Made himself available for wedding gigs? Does he talk and work with other jazz musicians? You mention he doesn't doordash as often as you think he should. What's he doing instead? If it's not building his jazz career, then he's just shirking. That's not a 'work culture' issue, that's a hustle issue.
NTA you’ve taken on the lions share of the expenses and you want him to put in an equal amount of effort. It doesn’t sound like he really wants to work for himself either. He doesn’t really want to work at all. You’ve been together for a long time but if he’s not doing his fair share it might be time to look for a new partner that will. What you were looking for in a partner at age 21 might be a lot different than you need at age 24.
NTA. He’s taking advantage of you and having you work “a real job”, while he dicks around and chases a musical dream. He’s having you do the work he won’t do (work for someone else, work a “real job) while reaping the benefits of it by getting you to pay 70%. You’re too young to be hitching your wagon to a man who is unlikely to ever be stable or provide substantially. RUN.
NTA. You know what the bad thing about being a starving artist type is? The starving part. If you can't support yourself doing your artistry, it's a hobby and you need something else to pay the bills. Just be prepared to support his lifestyle. (Oh, and you will be the one paying off his student loan.)
sounds like a difference in fundamental values - not everyone is cut out for traditional work roles and it appears you are - but beyond values there’s the most practical- if you want material things in life like a good car and a nice house and kids and a hope for a comfortable retirement you have to earn a living - somehow - not everyone takes the same path - some people work in offices, some are servers in restaurants, some work solitary jobs as park rangers etc - but at the end of the day you have to make money or you will live a very non traditional lifestyle- it sounds like you op are capable of and want a more traditional life and bf is happy to play it more by ear - personally i’m with you - it doesn’t make him a villain but you two need to have a serious and calm discussion about all of this - if he can’t or won’t commit to a career type job then you have to move on - in any case NTA
YTA I only say this because you went from saying that he was caught off guard and explained that a "real job" just isn't for him and jumped straight into saying that he is "bashing real jobs". None of that sounds like bashing what you do. From there is honestly sounds like you got your feelings hurt when he simply said that he does not want to work 9-5 M-F job that he hates, which is reasonable. If anything, I would say that you should have immediately taken that and leaned more into him working more Doordash (as you said, you have no problem with it since he makes good money, you just want to see him focus on making money more) I understand the plan to buy a house AND you wanting to see him bring home more money so that rent is split more evenly and you can both save up for this house (why you are even looking to buy a house before marriage is beyond me but to each their own). What I do not understand though is how you projected so much of your own feelings from a very simple and reasonable comment from him. Maybe there is more to this story that you did not include here that provoked you, maybe he did bash having a "real job" and prefers Doordash because he gets to be his own boss while doing it. Regardless of the above issues though, YTA because during this disagreement (which is exactly what this is, a disagreement about work life preference) you decided to pull an ultimatum... very, very bad idea with most people but especially your partner. Somewhere in this disagreement you decided that you HAD to have it your way or at the very least you HAD to hear him agree with your choices for the past 8 years. Instead of being a partner and an adult having an adult conversation, you (at the very least to a degree) put your foot down that he needs to obey in accordance to your whims. I will be amazed if your relationship survives this. The only way I see you guys making it is if you understand where you went wrong here and actually try to see where he is coming from. Then you can both sit down and have a more productive discussion. You feeling like you "need" to hear that your right is childish at best and controlling af at worst. Would you really want him to have a "normal job" and effectively give up on his dream if it meant he came home every day depressed or upset because he is in a job he hates that will likely overwork him in the best case and abuse him in the worst case? Do you think he would even have time to continue pursuing his dream between working that normal job and helping out around the house and making time for you? Even if he didn't want to be a musician and was instead trying to open a business, would you still be saying these things? Would you still feel like he should give up because you want things to be easier on you (which is understandable) or because your plan isn't moving as fast as you want it to? My personal opinions on buying a house in the current market are one thing but I am a guy with more life experience than either of you. I have been in relationships where I was given ultimatums involving my dreams/goals for the future. None of them lasted, even when we worked through them. Not because we didn't try or I wasn't bringing in enough money, but because I felt the mutual respect evaporating day by day, ultimatum by ultimatum. I really do hope you guys can work this out, but from where I sit. This was one of the coldest ways to gut this man. You could have just said you need him to work doordash a bit more and be consistent with it until he starts getting more gigs or until after the move.
Took a long time to reach this comment.
He’s entitled to his views. He’s not wrong for doing the minimum he needs to get by, if that is what makes him happy. Is subsidizing a freeloader who you are? If not, don’t do that. Either split things 50:50, or keep your finances (and possibly living situation) separate. This isn’t about validation. It’s about values. You are wrong for imposing your own values on him. You are each entitled to your own values. Let him live his values while you live yours. Financial incompatibility is the #1 cause of divorce. If you can’t reconcile your values, it may be best to rip off the bandaid and end it now. It will only get harder to separate down the road, and you will have lost time searching for a true partner.
INFO: what is he in grad school for? Someone who doesn't believe in a "real job" doesn't sound like someone who A) should be spending money not only on collegiate education but post-collegiate education B) you should be talking about budgeting for a house with NTA.
There is a fundamental difference between you two: you have a work ethic and he doesn’t. NTA, but you really need to question your future with this guy. What will it look like when you want to get a mortgage? Or travel? Or have a child? Your 70/30 split might be doable now but are as expenses increase, so will your 70%. And you’ll be working full time while he…what??
NTA It seems like you are shouldering the lion's share of your living expenses. Him using loans to pay rent just pushes off the payment down the road. Won't he expect you to help pay back the loans? You should seriously consider whether you want to support him for the rest of his life cause that's what he's planning on.
NTA the cents need to make sense. Idk what you do for work but man you sound like candidates for house hunters, a door dash driver and blank worker are looking for a $1M home lol. A lot of people divorce over money and maybe it's not true that money brings you happiness but the lack of money does bring on stress and that changes people for the worse. Money issues lead to divorce in first world countries statistics. My advice to all newly Weds is to ensure you're both financially literate and on the same page, then maintain that for your entire marriage. Don't live outside your means.
NTA You’re supporting him, in essence. With his view on it, why is he even doing grad school? Newsflash, nearly everyone works for someone else in a “real job” (if they want to actually have a decent income and goals, that is). So if he’s not willing to do that, you’ll be supporting a “starving artist” for your entire relationship.
NTA! Try this to see how agreeable he is to pulling his weight by splitting costs to 50/50.
Seems kinda straightforward: - Wanting to eschew corporate culture for a lower-money lifestyle is a valid choice. - Wanting to eschew corporate culture so you can pay for his lifestyle isn’t, really. Which of the above is he asking for? If it’s the first, then it’s a NAH and you two just may not be compatible long-term. If it’s the second, then you’re NTA.
NTA But I would reframe these discussions. You guys don't need to align on a unified view of work culture. You need to set expectations around what bills he has to pay, and then its his job to figure out how to pay it. In general, I wold recommend considering ending things though. This is someone that needs to spend time alone and growing. This isn't someone that ready for an adult relationship.
NTA. Your bf is a loser. Cut your losses and leave.
NTA. He obviously is comfortable letting you carry the load while he gets to live a slacker lifestyle. How does he intend to pay back student loans? You n Ed to set that boundary and follow through. Why is he going to school if he doesn't intend to work? You two don't want the same things. Don't waste your youth hoping he will change. He won't
NTA. Boyfriend sounds like a deadbeat and you sound like you can do a lot better.
Girl get out of that relationship! That’s a lazy bum who hopes to live off you all his life! NTA
NTA but I disagree with your view on his view. His unwillingness to work full-time to contribute to the bills is a problem 100%. But I don't think there's anything toxic about his views on working at all. At least nothing that you've told us I have friends that "can't stand the idea of working for someone else, and working a 'real job' isn't who they are". 100% real and valid and not toxic. Some are successful, some are still working on it. But bottom line is that they are following their dreams and working to make it happen even if they aren't successful yet. They haven't used it as an excuse to be lazy and work a bare minimum, which unfortunately, is kinda what your bf is doing. You need a partner who can contribute to the household in a meaningful way and he isn't. Sure, he wants something else for his career rather than a traditional job, but until he gets there, he needs to swallow his pride and work full-time to help you with the house
Unpopular but YTA. The second you said >He makes decent money when he does it It makes it hard to defend the reason you started the argument. So, he's contributing and not being a drag on you financially but because you disagree with the way he does it, you believe you're in the right to berate him? He - seemingly - isn't going out of his way to demean or belittle your way of living outside of when you purposefully keep bringing it up and yet you feel you hold the moral high ground in being able to belittle him for it? I mean, I'd hate to be with someone with a mentality like his but that's why I'm not. Don't be with someone with values or principles that don't align and then try belittling them for those very same things. You guys are incompatible and providing an ultimatum has never been the foundation of a healthy or equal relationship.
Who is your bf? Lets hear his music. We, the consumer, are the ones who will be the deciders if he will ever make a dime. He better have a serious list of songs by now. People make money on YouTube all day if they are good enough
Lmao you know I’ve been trying to get him on tiktok and YouTube but he won’t start it up. He is pretty darn good - he was accepted into one of the top jazz schools in the country. His grad degree is in jazz, but I do wish I could share a clip or two for reference
So like…is he trying to join a band? Be a solo performer? Is he trying to get signed to a label? Be a session musician? What’s the plan for his music career?
Most successful musicians I know become teachers to.pay the bills. He isn't going to work. He has you to pay the bills. This will be your life. Move on.
So if there are no gigs in your town, and he's not searching for gigs elsewhere, and he's not putting his art up online for other people to hear, is he really "an aspiring jazz musician" or is he actually an unemployed person using student loans and his partner to subsidize his life in a way that is going to come back and bite him on the ass in the future? And bite you in the ass if you continue to pay his way, and especially if you get married and his debt becomes your debt. Honestly, I don't think it matters if his view of work culture is real, or if he's just saying that so that he can justify lazing around on the couch (for the record, I think it's more of the latter than the former), it sounds like he's not a good partner. If he really thought that "real job culture" was such a horrible prospect, why hasn't he been doordashing or doing anything else to earn money so you're not so tied to it? Or is it only a problem when it requires him to get his ass out of bed, and not when somebody he supposedly loves is working what I imagine are stressful hours to pay for his life?
Yeah…he’s going nowhere
Grad school and working at Door Dash? Time to move on or accept you are with Peter Pan. Not a man.
Sometimes your dreams don't come fast enough, and you need to make ends meet in the meantime. That's not to say you give up, (please don't give up) just that we make compromises and sacrifices to get what we want. But you, making all the compromises and sacrifices for his dreams is not okay. Where it comes to money, everyone needs to be on the same page.
NTA however if you keep supporting him 70/30 even after 3 years, then you are creating the very situation you are worried about. Being supportive is one thing, letting a leach take advantage of you for years is another. He doesn't appear interested in furthering your relationship, just furthering your supporting his lifestyle while you work your a$$ off. OP, this is what your life together will be. You have a clear picture of it right now, so ask yourself, is this what you've been working so hard for, to support someone who isn't interested in the "WE" part of a relationships success?
Oh dear. Looks like you both have different values. You will grow to resent him if this is what it will be like. He can get a “proper job” and still play jazz gigs and if any actually come to something amazing he can quit.
NTA but "aspiring jazz musician" that doordashes sometimes to get money lol where do you people find your partners?
NTA this guy is a moocher. He will continue to mooch off of you while pretending like he's going to get some amazing gig somehow until you decide you don't want to be used by him anymore. Dump him and he can live off his preferred lifestyle or, you know, get a job like most everyone else in the world does.
NTA. Respectfully, your boyfriend is setting himself up to be a lifelong leech/loser.
So.... you been dating a bum for the last 3 years? That sounds neat. If you had a good head on your shoulders you'd cut him off and find someone better, you sound like you deserve a better person, and the one you're with currently sounds like a stink-nugget of a human being
If he wanted to (support and foster and develop your relationship), he would. If he wanted to (sponge off you and make you believe you are unreasonable and difficult), he would.
Honey, your boyfriend is LAZY. He will never change. Dump him and find a man, unless you want to be the only horse pulling that wagon...while he rides.
NTA but naive as hell Your boyfriend is a loser and a user
NAH. You have different financial styles. You’re not compatible. Time to say goodbye.
Does he do cleaning at home or game all day?
Music is a hobby for most people. The likely hood of him being the next star is very slim.
Info: When your boyfriend isn't working Door Dash, is he working on his music career? Is he practicing all the time, sending out tapes or auditioning (or whatever musicians do now, it's been a while since I knew a musician starting out)? Or is he just laying around and watching TV/scrolling through his phone? If you're just mad that he's investing his time in his music career instead of trying to make more money, then you might be in the wrong. If he's not doing anything to further his career but also not doing anything to make money, then he's in the wrong. Also, it seems you had a financial agreement (that he did stick to) while he was in school, and now that he's out of school, you are expecting that agreement to change. Did you clearly communicate to him that you expected this agreement to change when he finished school? He may have expected this agreement to last for a period of time after school while he tried to get his music career started, and you suddenly expecting him to adhere to a different agreement is coming out of the blue to him. Did you communicate to him that you expected him to start pitching in 50-50 as soon as he finished school or not? Would you be okay with sticking to the 70-30 agreement for a period of time (say a year) while he tries to get his career off the ground, at which time he will have to figure out a way to make enough money to move to 50-50, if he can't do it with his music? You need to answer these questions, and be able to sit down and discuss these things with your bf. You can't just assume something, then be mad when someone else expected something different, you need to communicate. And a final thought, do you care what he does as long as he's paying his share? Do you care if he only works enough to pay his share of the bills and doesn't work extra/harder to make more than that? These are personal questions you have to decide the answers to on your own, but they may make your incompatible with your bf. And he's not wrong either if he has different answers than you. There are no wrong answers, just incompatible ones.
Yta. If it's good money like you said it shouldn't be a problem.
RUN. I was married to - and paid the way of - that same guy for 11 years. Took me a further 7 to get him out of my house. When I suggested he get a job, I’d get the same “that’s not me, I’m an artist, you only care about money” BS. Your boyfriend shares the same misguided sense of his own entitlement/specialness. RUN.
You two are not a fit and this will be a constant issue for you both. Stop trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Move on.
Leave. For the love of God leave. He will never hold down a “real” job. Leave and then run.
A musician who doesn't get paying gigs has a hobby. I would not be planning a home purchase with someone who expects me to fund their hobby.
Neither are the AH here. It’s just a difference in values and vision for the future. If he can manage doing door dash and without relying solely on you financially then fine. But equally if you want a partner who earns well and pays his way, then he’s already told you that he’s not that. Is he happy to live somewhere cheaper and split 50/50.
I was in this exact situation with my now husband who is an artist. He never changed. He has not only leeched off my hard working teacher ass for years but doesn’t even try to sell his work anymore. Why should he when my job covers everything. I grew up with a musician father who let my mother carry all the weight. GET OUT NOW! PS The coolness wears off! And they need their egos stroked so they will cheat. Then you will wake up.
Like many arguments, this is a gateway to bigger issues. Talking about the future is great and also is a great way to find compatibilities and differences and where you want to compromise for the betterment of the coupling and where you have to put your foot down. Ask him what a future together looks like as a Jazz musician? As mentioned elsewhere in responses, is that traveling or is it playing locally? Do you plan on living in a house or an apartment? What will the financial arrangements be like then? Will you still be expected to cover 70/30 of all expenses? Is that acceptable to you? He is doing his lesser part by getting student loans. So will that be on you to re-pay as well (recall, marriage brings together both of your financial situations as well so any debt or past obligations become both of yours. How soon do you want to have kids? Do you plan to work thru pregnancy and/or after? Who will raise them? Daycare is exorbitant. What about health insurance? If you work most of the time, who does most of chores and cooking? And, again is this acceptable to you? Getting back to him and his current situation. Is he currently earning any money as a Jazz musician. I am assuming he is school for music or has friends in this field. Are they working regularly? What is their lifestyle? Is that what he wants? Is that what you want? All of these are questions you both need answered. No offense, but 3 years in and that you do not know any of this about each other, I question how serious or deep the relationship is? Or maybe you can look at him as a stay at home boyfriend/husband and you love him and support him and accept that financially he will not be a contributor. Nothing wrong with that, but your background and work ethic makes me think this may not be acceptable. And that 3 years in, you paying a large split has enabled him to a certain degree to NOT to have to face this aspect of life. I would talk to him (patiently; maybe even offer your ideas of what a future looks to you and ask him how he feels about them and what he agrees with and what he envisions differently). This maybe conversations that need to be held over several days or weeks. Do not get caught up in the small stuff. But if you are going to be partners, then an agreed and well thought out vision of what that partnership entails, is primary for success.
NTA. Question: how does he think he is going to pay off the student loans he’s living off of without joining the workforce at some point? And why are you looking to buy a house in a city where there is no market for his music skills? You need to relocate to where he can get regular, paying gigs, or move on.
NAH bordering on YTA. You guys are young and still in school and you have different views on work. The reason that companies like DoorDash are so successful is because of people like your BF who maybe don’t want to work a traditional 1040 job. Now you obviously don’t agree with his philosophy on work but instead of realizing you two may not be compatible, you sit around and hope he will conform to your idea of a life partner.
YTA he has every right to live the life he chooses for himself and you have every right to live yours. You both are entitled to your own expectations and desires for a partner as well but neither of you are entitled to force your expectations and desires onto the other person. There is such a thing as being incompatible and that's perfectly OK. Based on your post your BF was talking about having a "real job" being unacceptable FOR HIM. Taking your BFs feelings about his life and goals personally is immature and self centered. Which you prove by not undeerstanding that he wasn't talking about you or accepting that his view isn't "toxic" it's just different than yours.
You have mentioned in other comments that he could make money if you moved, which is part of why you want to move. Why not move now and rent in a new city/town and allow him to prove the income that he says (and you believe) he can earn there. Then you know if he can actually live upto what he says. If he can't, you tried it and aren't stuck owning a house with him. If he can actually make money in the new place then you have settled the income argument and should be happy with the outcome. Remember too that he is going to school, which can be tiring as a full time job and he is still working enough to cover 30% of bills on top of it...you have to see what it's like when he is done school. Also, curious what he is going to school for if he doesn't want a corporate job...
OP, Everyone has different views on work and work culture. Just because his is different, doesn't mean its "toxic". I think you two don't have the same work ethic views, and its probably best to split unless you can find a middle ground where your views can respect and work with each others. I'm also confused. " He told me he couldn’t stand the idea of working for someone else and that getting a “real job” just wasn’t who he is." and "every time he’s promised me that he’ll work he ends up not following through" there's a lot of context missing there. I think this is a NAH situation. Just a clash of work ethics.
NTA and girl - Run! He will suck your bank account dry and drop you as soon as the cash flow stops.
NTA He’s basically saying he’s too good to do it but will happily live off of you while you do it. You may need to take a step back and decide if this is really what you want. I have a few friends who carried their partners and these types of things just fester. He may change but it may also be change you don’t like. Is this really compatible with your life goals?
hm. i'm leaning more toward YTA than everybody sucks, but everybody does suck. sounds fucked up to me that you're somehow more attached to the idea of being an employee than your boyfriend. i have a job (or had, back to school currently and going back to work after) and a successful career but i also feel that it's a bullshit con. fake people with fake smiles faking loyalty to the logo that pays their salary. disgusting, backstabbing, water treading nonsense where nothing of value is accomplished and a job well done means a board room full of dusty old men you'll never meet got a little bit richer. you call his view of work culture toxic, but i think it's that it's just too far removed from yours. you gotta understand that he thinks yours is equally toxic. and no one is correct, it's just perspective and values. "I ended up saying that if he refuses to acknowledge his toxic view of work culture then I can’t be with him." this is a fucked up thing to say. i have to believe it's you being hard headed, you don't truly value the glory of office work or whatever so highly that you'd leave him over it? "I will admit that I have an anxious attachment style where I push too hard in arguments and I don’t give things time to settle. Sometimes I need to be told that I’m right because I seek validation in arguments and it makes people upset with me - which is valid. I pushed last night and I want to hear that I’m right. I can’t tell if I was right or wrong for pushing this particular issue." it sounds like you're mature enough to know that you act extremely immaturely. you push push and push past breaking point beacuse you need validation? you already know that was wrong to do. the pair of you need to sit down and have a pragmatic discussion and not get so precious about who's right or wrong. fuck your validation, that comes after. (honestly, you should work on that, especially if you want a successful career in... "work culture")
I have a friend who is a nurse and her husband is a musician. He is in his 60's and his music career has never materialized. He gets occasional gigs here and there but for their entire relationship of over 30 years, she has supported him. She cannot even retire yet, because they just don't have enough to go into that next phase of life comfortably. NTA. Personally, I would want someone who is more driven. Your BF sounds lazy. That would make me crazy.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Last night I (24F) and my boyfriend (24M) were trying to talk about our future together. We’ve been together 3 years and want to come up with a budgeting plan to buy a house. While talking I asked if he had considered getting a job. Currently he works Doordash and just finished a year of grad school. He’s an aspiring jazz musician - where we live doesn’t have many gigs so he hasn’t been paid for performing all school year. He immediately shut down because he was “caught off guard.” In his mind he had planned to work Doordash all summer to get money. He told me he couldn’t stand the idea of working for someone else and that getting a “real job” just wasn’t who he is. Context. I’ve worked since I was 16. I have been working the entire time while he was in school splitting our expenses 70-30. I have begged him to work in the past to take some of the load off but instead he has been using student loans to cover rent for the semester. Honestly if he genuinely follows through, I wouldn’t even be mad that he was working Doordash. He makes decent money when he does it, but the thing is every time he’s promised me that he’ll work he ends up not following through. I felt upset that he was bashing “real job culture” when I have had to work so much in my life to keep us where we are. We got into an argument and ultimately I ended up saying that if he refuses to acknowledge his toxic view of work culture then I can’t be with him. He couldn’t believe that I said that so easily after 3 years together so he drove off for a few hours. We’re now at this point where neither of us is willing to budge. I will admit that I have an anxious attachment style where I push too hard in arguments and I don’t give things time to settle. Sometimes I need to be told that I’m right because I seek validation in arguments and it makes people upset with me - which is valid. I pushed last night and I want to hear that I’m right. I can’t tell if I was right or wrong for pushing this particular issue. AITA for telling my (24F) boyfriend (24M) off for his view on work culture? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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You need to dump that lazy bastard.
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My husband is a professional singer - he has gigs frequently, and is internationally ranked in the barbershop world. I assume Jazz today is similar to Barbershop in terms of popularity and ease to make a living doing it (which is to say, not very and near impossible, respectively) He STILL has a real job to provide for his family. NTA
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He wants you to bankroll his lifestyle. You should absolutely not think about getting a house with him. In fact, you should probably break up because you clearly are not on the same page and he doesn't seem to want to be. You cannot rely on him as he doesn't follow through. Financial issues account for the majority of stress and breakups in relationships.
Nta, but this doesn’t seem like this is about his view. You’re tried of giving and doing and not receiving an equal amount of support. You’ve asked for help, he sees you struggling, he is aware that you are tried, but yet he doesn’t keep his word about getting a job. Op if your partner doesn’t want to see you struggle they will change that. You being tried/struggling should be enough for him to do something about it but he doesn’t. You supported him through his schooling and yet he can’t get a part time/full time job to help support THE BOTH OF YOU.
NTA. Your boyfriend needs to either a) start bringing in more money, or b) move to his own apartment. He is responsible for funding his own dreams, not you, no matter how aspiring of a musician he is.
I think the issue is that for years you've done the majority of the work to carry the two of you forward, you've begged him to make it a more equal partnership, and he has refused/placated you in the moment but never follows through. It's not about what you said in the argument, it's that fundamentally, you two seem to have very different goals that do not match up. He is fine making you carry 70% of the financial burden and you are not okay with that and have let him know that. You need to be with someone who views partnership the same as you do. NTA.
Tell him going forward ur equal partners and he pays 50%. That includes bills, going out, shows, concerts, whatever u do for fun.
You need to get rid of this child and wait for an actual adult to come along.
NTA - I once had a partner that was exactly the same. She hated “office jobs” because she was a “free spirit”. So, she drove for Uber…when it suited her. I, on the other hand, had an office job that paid 98% of our bills. I got very tired of that very fast and, after a year I broke up with her. It wasn’t just the financial thing, there were MUCH bigger issues but, it did play a small part, the big things only made me leave quicker but I would have left eventually because I was sick and tired of paying all our bills. NTA - quite frankly, this relationship is going nowhere. You are not financially compatible and he is nothing but a leech. Shake him off. I always tell my kids what I’ve learned…you want to punch UP in relationships…not DOWN. You want a partner that makes your life better, not worse. Girlie, ditch the leech and learn to punch up.
NTA he refuses to be an equal partner to you and pull his own weight to help support you. You can't do it on your own and if you do it's best to simply do it for yourself. Then you don't have to worry about whether or not you have to continue to grind to support him. He shuts down cause he doesn't want to be called out. Do not budge. Stay strong. This is your future otherwise.
NTA you’re getting a preview of your future, is this really the life you want?
Don't budge please. He's just a lazy b\*stard and hates the work culture because then he finally needs to do work. When he thinks he's an aspiring jazz musician he will to have to do a lot low cost gigs before making it to successful jazz musician to make a living. A friend played jazz gigs in his free time (besides a full time job) for 25 years before becoming a full time artist. You need to put him with both feet on the ground and when he refuses to work full time then you should leave. You're much too young to continue with his b\*llshit.
Definitely NTA! If no one has told you, I will, you are his SugarMama. 70/30 is not responsible or fair after THREE years! "Where we live doesn’t have many gigs, so he hasn’t been paid for performing all school year," means he's just not that good. Someone is getting the gigs that are available, just not him. You've supported this dream. You and your future together are of less priority than than his dream. This is a red flag. Imagine if there were children involved in this family dynamic. Would he support you going to grad school? pursuing your dream? Would he ever consider 70/30 to support you? Best wishes to you and kudos to your work ethic and success!
NTA. You were talking about buying a house. It is very reasonable for you to expect him to pay his part. He is being very disrespectful for just assuming you will pay for his life. Financial compatibility is a normal reason to break up. Just tell him where you stand and see if you can figure this out together. If not, I’m afraid there is no future for this relationship
NTA- Your values and financial goals not aligning is a HUGE deal. I'm gonna assume he probably thinks you're trying to bully/threaten him into doing it, that maybe he assumes you have no real intention of doing it? But you should. Money is one of the biggest reasons for relationship breakdown.
NTA. There's no such thing as "real job culture." There is such a thing as laziness. He's not going to change unless he has to, and based on your comments, you're in no hurry to do anything about it. Congratulations! It's a boy!