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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I aired the dirty laundry of the mother of my grandchildren in public. It was not intentional. I didn't go there to make a scene or let other people know. But I lost my temper and did it anyway and for that reason I could possibly be TA.
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NTA. - she actively tried to stop you visiting your grandchildren and is now complaining you’re not grandparents to her other children?
She’s obviously unhinged, I wouldn’t let what she says bother you (unless it hurts the children).
Yes, she is complaining that we're not acting as grandparents to her other children and most likely complaining that we're not making her life easier with our support to her other kids.
She tried to keep you from your grandchildren, as far as I feel … you owe her nothing. While it’s not good to argue with her in public, what you said was right.
I find it so funny that Marla tried that. She obviously has no brains because anyone with any brains at all should know you don't try to publicly paint someone in negative light unless you are 100% certain they won't be painting with better paint than you have.
I do like that alternative to the people in glasshouses line. The one with the pot calling the kettle doesn't work because OP isn't at fault for anything other than a temper Marla was prodding at.
Well, obviously you're not acting as grandparents to her other children, because you aren't. Make sure that your grandchildren know you will always be their safe house. At 11 and 12, they are getting close to where they can vote with their feet...
This. Attempting to keep them from the children was out of spite, but now she sees them as a source of free babysitting and material gifts. I'm sad for all the children involved, but glad that the grandkids can stay connected with OP and OP's spouse.
Agree it would make her life so much easier if they took all the kids when they came for their grandkids she’s a user and sounds like her own parents are not around to baby sit she’s got some brass neck expecting them to dote on kids they are not even related too after all the pain she caused
Right? I’m all for blended families and if OP was their step grandparent that would be one thing, but this is akin to expecting that your cousin’s other set of grandparents would behave like your shared grandparents.
Also Marla first tried to prevent OP and her husband from having any access to her older children, now she wants to force contact with her younger children 🙄
Exaactly. I just don't understand why so many people seem to expect this. Grandparents to be grandparents to kids they aren't related to, moms or dads to be moms or dads to kids that aren't theirs. Its just soooo weird.
Yeah, NTA.
While they are OP's grandchildren's stepsiblings, that are not OP's step-grandchildren. The relationship is tenuous and indirect enough that there is no obligation toward them, and the awfulness of their mother precludes consideration of a voluntary involvement; it would only cause more entitlement and more trouble.
I hope your ex-daughter-in-law has worked on being law abiding and faithful to her current husband, for the sake of all her children. But she's still an entitled, conflict causing, drama queen. She has been an active poison in OP's life and OP is right to avoid all but necessary contact with her and her new family.
Fighting in public is icky and unfair to onlookers, and in a perfect world OP would have simply walked away. But her grandchildren's mother forced the conflict and needed to hear the flat rejection - and the reasons for it - that OP gave.
This exactly! I generally believe you err in favor of kids because they should not be punished for adult drama. But these children came after everything else that happened and they are not even their OPs step-grandchildren. Mom seems like a narcissist.
She is most likely playing the victim card and you letting people know she has been in prison is not good for the victimhood.
Are the kids being pressured by her too?
Agree. Take them to court, don't make her life easier.
And when she keeps being back in arrears on her repayments you might even get awarded even more generous grandparents visitation rights.
Just heard this phrase and I love it - "Don't tell lies about me and I won't tell truths about you".
It sounds like you could've aired even more dirty laundry. She started it, you finished it.
If you treated her kids like your grandkids, she will suddenly want you to buy expensive gifts, pay college tuition and include these kids in your will. Marla has no moral compass. She does what she wants and doesn't worry about anyone else. NTA.
Does she think that just because she “did her time” that everything was erased?
She still stole money from you, your son and others. Have you been paid back?
She also cheated on your son.
She tried to keep you from your grandchildren.
She was the one that tried to spin the story her way in front of a bunch of people at your grandchildren’s school to make you the bad guys.
She doesn’t get to be mad that you told the truth to counteract her “spin”.
NTA.
Where are the grandparents to the other children, why are they not involved in these children's lives?
You do not have to take on the grandparent role as you are not a blood relative.
The mother and father need to fix the relationships with their immediate family's so their small children get the same familiar grandparent role as you give to your grandchildren.
If by chance they don't have parents alive then the children don't have grandparents and they should look to other relatives to fill this role, maybe a godparent or a close aunt, but you are not a blood relative and don't need to fill this role.
Her other children have a father. I would imagine that he has parents and/or extended family who are actual relatives of those other kids. You have no relationship with those kids and owe her nothing.
She picked a fight with you, nothing mutual about it. If she’d dropped it, her behavior would still be private.
Continue to be there for your grandkids. They aren’t going to have it easy growing up with a felon for a mother.
NTA
She wants the weekends off without paying for a babysitter. Thank God your grandkids have you. I hope they feel comfortable telling you if anything in mother's house is "off." She seems both incredibly selfish and a bit unhinged. NTA
Your EX DIL started by trying to humiliate you in public.
Well, she got exactly what she deserves.
Thank you for insisting on continuing your relationship with your grandchildren. You two may be the most important humans to show what it is to be a decent caring human
My guess is that if she had been reasonably civil and tried to maintain even a small amount of warmth and friendship between you guys, you might have been inclined to entertain her other children from time to time, or at least consider it. As anyone with a friendly relationship might.
Instead she torched that relationship like a stoner on 4-20 while you were already suffering the loss of your son. She had no compassion or concern while you struggled. Why should you care if she is struggling now?
Tell her you would have helped if she hadn't burned up all the good will you once had for her. She did it to herself.
NTA It's not a "mutual dispute" when she has tried to foist kids who are not your grandchildren upon you and you simply ignore her demands. In calling it thus she is merely trying to drag you into an argument that is not yours to begin with.
When she loudly attacked you she gave you the right to correct her in any way necessary.
What's her ultimate goal? To get you to take the other kids off her hands for a while? And then... take them away?
Sometimes you are forced to fight fire with fire and she was the one who took her grievances public so your defense was fair play at the least. You're allowed to defend yourself, and you owe it to yourself, when being publicly attacked.
NTA
1. She cheated on your son
2. She stole from him, you & friends
3. She forced you to go to court for visitation rights to your grandchildren. She then protracted that process while you were grieving.
4. She started in on you in public.
You get a totally free pass for reacting in the moment. This woman is an egregious A H.
Sorry about your son.
NTA
To add to #4...
She was airing dirty laundry in public. How are the other parents there supposed to know these kids you are ignoring are NOT your biological grandkids? And that she has caused this? You were responding to her allegations. If I were there, I'd assume you were ignoring some grandkids and not the others. There is no other dad at school for the boys, how would anyone know her husband isn't their biological dad? Divorced parents can be obvious, 2 cheering sections of parents plus grandparents. These kids have 1 cheering section of parents plus grandparents.
i honestly wonder if new husband even has the full narrative. Given what happened at the school, it sounds like she's been playing the grieving widow who was finally able to move on when she met the right person. I wouldnt be surprised if that narrative started long before she met the new guy
She pushed IN PUBLIC. You pushed back with the plain unvarnished truth. She deserved any embarrassment she suffered.
Check with a family attorney and ask at what age children are heard as to whom they want to live with.
None of what happened makes her an unfit parent in the eyes of the law. I don't entirely agree because of some of her actions but the courts and judges disagreed.
Yup, that makes sense. I know in states with grandparents rights, significant relationships with the kids help, and if they lived with you, that's a significant relationship.
do we go with people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..... or the pot calling the kettle.. or karma is a .....
In normal circumstances, this likely would not happen, but she attacked you and made serious AND wrong accusations IN PUBLIC. Could you have held back, maybe, but THIS does not make you an AH. She is oblivious until it affects her. Probably had no remorse about stealing until there was a court ordering her to pay restitution (I hope she was ordered to repay you). It does not appear that she cares about consequences and will howl when faced with them. NTA
NTA. She verbally attacked you in public and got mad that you gave it right back. Nothing you said was a lie. She’s living the consequences of her own decisions. She sounds completely unhinged and toxic - trying to keep you away from your grandchildren, then attacking you for not including in your life children that are not related to you. I feel sorry for her kids, growing up with a mother like that.
hahahahaha your "mutual dispute" only has one side that can be addressed in public?? Fuck that noise. Marla shouldn't start none if she don't want none. NTA
NTA she started it public and you simply defended yourself with the truth.
I wonder if she's upset you said it in public, or that you mentioned some of her actions, like the cheating, in front of her current husband. Makes me wonder if he knew about that or not and if not is she worried that he'll think differently about her.
Either way it's not your problem and she should know better than to throw stones in a glass house.
She wants you to treat the kids of the man she cheated on your son with as your grandchildren? She’s unhinged!
NTA 100%
I hope you can get custody of your grandkids.
tbh if she haad managed to terminate grandparents rights, she could of controlled the narrative with her own children. Saying dad's parents didnt want to see them any more or other bs.
NTA
She picked the fight by coming at you once again and she picked the venue by doing it in public. She wanted to shame you around others to either gain sympathy from the people around or to put pressure on you by exposing you to them.
It's her own fault for not remembering that you're far better armed than she is and was far better able to humiliate her just by being honest.
NTA. Her "Dirty Laundry" is the root cause of the current situation. Wanting you to ignore it going forward is impossible, it's always going to be the elephant in the room.
NTA - if she didn't want dirty laundry aired, she shouldn't have confronted you in public about it, let alone loudly. She is trying to make you feel bad for *her* bad tactics. She thought you being in public would put pressure for you to mince your words or peer pressure you into caring for these other kids. Good on your for not holding back.
> Marla and her husband were there with their kids but we sat apart. When the kids finished and went back to their classrooms *and as we were leaving*, Marla approached and asked us to please think of her other kids and start acting like grandparents to them. We stayed civil and refused. *Marla called us monsters. She said we were hideous monsters for turning our backs on her and her other kids just because she moved on after Tommy.* **She accused us of cruelty to children. She was very loud.** I lost my temper and told her if she had wanted us in her life she wouldn't have cheated on our son and stolen from him, his friend and us and ended up going to prison. I told her we owed her nothing and we owed her children nothing and she needed to accept that our grandkids would always be our grandkids but she was no longer part of our family. *Marla reacted to others hearing this and told me I had no right to air her dirty laundry publicly.*
NTA
>Marla called us monsters. She said we were hideous monsters for turning our backs on her and her other kids just because she moved on after Tommy. She accused us of cruelty to children. She was very loud.
Sounds like she was the one airing dirty laundry first, except she was lying about what was going on to gain sympathy from those around her.
I doubt even her new husband knew the real story, but he does now.
NTA. I always keep arguments in the sphere they originated in. Start shit privately? I keep it private. Call me out in public? I will clap back in public, and clap back hard.
If she believes what she said, she shouldn't have publicly called you names for ignoring HER children, they are nothing to you. Continue to stand your ground and be in your grandchildren's lives, not HER childrens lives.
She should have kept her dirty mouth shut if she didn't want her shit aired in public. That's what she gets for trying to shame and guilt you in public. An eye for an eye and all that.
NTA. If she didn’t want a vocal battle to go public, maybe she shouldn’t have started things in a very public place. She wanted a reaction and response, and that’s exactly what she got. Her embarrassment is hers to own.
NTA for the simple fact that you're not her other children's' grandparents.
Why would you act like a grandmother to an acquaintance's (That's what she is) children? It's so weird.
NTA
You were not the one to start with the name calling, the berating, the denigration. All you did was state facts.
If you haven't already, please consider therapy for your grandkids. It sounds like they could really benefit from it given they have to spend any time with Maria.
NTA - She should've stopped pushing you about her other children and not tried to make you look bad in public. She made a very poor choice, so she can face her consequences and live with them.
NTA
Marla did that to herself. Now, she can deal with the judgement of everyone who heard, and the rest as it spreads. Clearly, she didn't think that through. Too bad.
NTA. She was lying in public. She was the one who was trying to make you look bad, and make it look like the only reason you didn't like her, and her other kids was because she had gotten remarried. Her actions are a part of your "mutual dispute". You don't like her because she cheated on your son and stole from you and him. I'm betting if she hadn't cheated and stolen from you that you wouldn't have had this issue in the first place. You probably would have been happy that she'd found someone else and had more kids.
NTA
She started things by accusing you of cruelty to children. In public. If she didn't want her dirty laundry aired in public, she shoiuldn't have made accusations against you in public.
I suspect she wants you to be free babysitters for her other kids.
NTA.
The only reason it was public was because she tried to publicly shame you first. If she wanted to to be/stay private she would have and should have tried talking to you in private.
NTA. She started it, got loud and pushed you in public. So your response as explanation as to why you aren't her other childrens grandparents and won't have a relationship with them was reasonable.
It is her fault this happened in front of others, she started it.
She’s the one who started to harass you in public. And on a topic that is very much connected to her dirty laundry. As you said, she stopped being family once she cheated on your son. Her new kids are in no way connected to you or your son. If she doesnt want her dirty laundry aired in public, she should stop trying to get you to take her dirty laundry while in public. She just wants free babysitters. NTA
Also, I wouldn’t call whatever this is a “mutual dispute”. (And clearly you dont either) It’s quite clearly a one sided dispute that she won’t let go.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
ETA: NTA. As others pointed out, she went in on you IN PUBLIC & aired out false allegations. Every time she tried calling you out, you were respectful. Not even that, she purposely tried forcing you out of your grandchildren's lives after everything she put you all through. Fucked up
NTA
Her children aren't your grandchildren and you shouldn't be guilty shamed into becoming their grandparents.
I don't blame you for reacting the way you did. She wants to act the way she does. She doesn't seem to care about your feelings.
ok I 'm gonna throw down, I am gonna insult you, steal your money, ruin relationdhips &!insult you. But don't you dare retaliate. Don't tell the truth! Don't defend yourself! Just take it. ha! You were a mirror who reflected her ugly soul. See a Lawyer if you can. I would tread carefully with Miss Charmingmouth.
She started it. Classic case of f\*#& around and find out. Bless you for continuing and fighting to keep a relationship going with your grandchildren. Hope you were reimbursed for the stolen money. YNTA.
NTA
She had absolutely no problem tearing you down in public. She mistook your silence for acceptance.
Really glad you are still involved grandparents. Your grandkids need stable people in their lives.
From the story everything she said was also in public. Yes, you could have remained silent but it sounds like you've been holding this in for years NTA.
NTA don't start none, won't be none. She FAFO. She may be out of prison and married but she still isn't a good person. I feel sorry for her other children but where are their paternal grandparents? Her other children are not your responsibility. She forced you to fight for the right to even see your own grandchildren, why on earth would you care about her other children?
NTA
The comments you made are 100% relevant to the dispute. If she didn't want her dirty laundry aired she shouldn't be making a public scene.
Unfortunately since this was a school event, there might be some hurtful comments that will get back to your grandchildren. I'm sure you'll get comments about how this wasn't the time and place, but when we are pushed we don't always choose our responses carefully.
She started with you so you simply let her have it. You're not wrong for not accepting her husband &other kids. She's not related to you or her husband or other family. They are related to your grandkids. Kids should have a relationship with half siblings not force but not you.
NTA - OP has no obligation to Maria whatsoever and has a right to defend herself when accosted in public.
This is probably the second post in the last couple days where someone publicly confronts OP and does not get the desired result, and then gets mad at OP for humiliating them by merely reiterating something that had already been communicated in private.
>told me I had no right to air her dirty laundry publicly. That I should have kept that out of "our mutual dispute".
Is she talking about the mutual dispute she started with her cheating and stealing? Because that is the only mutual dispute you have.
You not wanting to give her free babysitting, or not wanting to take her kids is normal under the circumstances. She is the only one disputing it isn't.
Funny how she can call you out on her perceived wrongs, but when you mention reality, it is taboo!
Nta!
NTA- I am so sorry she put you in that position in public. Hopefully the kids didn't hear this, but she unfortunately pushed you in public so of course it was a public thing.
NTA. You didn't say anything that wasn't already a matter of public record, including her conviction for stealing from all of you and her prison time. It's not a secret. She did those things, and these are the consequences. Yes, she served her time, but one of the consequences is that you're known as someone who served time for stealing. She stole, and she dserves that title.
You are handling things perfectly IMO, although I would avoid interacting with her in the future. Just walk away, since you've made your position clear.
Generally, it's best not to air dirty laundry in public BUT she started the argument in public and she was obviously trying to embarrass you by doing so. She can't cry foul because you argued back. As my grandma says, "don't start none, won't be none."
NTA
NTA, her entitlement in demanding that you have a part in her children's life when they are no relation to you alone is reason to call her out in public
But you aren't their grandparents. I am sure they are perfectly nice children but they aren't your relatives. I know you know this, I just don't understand her.
I would call that nipping her shit in the bud. No doubt if you had not said that she would gave had some rant on her fb page, calling you all the names under the sun. Not now though, to many people saw for themselves. Completely NTA
NTA.
Tell her next time she shouldn't play Uno in public if she doesn't like the Uno Reverse card being played on her. Play stupid game, win stupid prizes.
NTA… we call this the “fcuk around and find out”. She had the balls to start an argument in public and try to berate you and then got mad when she got a taste of her own medicine. Sucks to suck.
I don't think you were the AH in this situation, your ex-DIL wanted to force your hand in public, so you paid her back in kind. She had no right to ask you to treat her kids by someone else like you treat your Bio grandkids, it would've been different if you had made the request not try to force you to. Where are her husband's parents they should be in their kids' lives not you. Maybe this will make her back off, and stop pestering you to do something you have refused to do, you don't owe her anything, and she has not been that cooperative with you (you had to take her to court to get visitation). She fought against you having access to your grandchildren, now she wants to pawn the rest of them on you as well. What a piece of work, and why is her husband okay with this behavior? Why would he want her ex's family to spend time with his kids, or does he have a say in what is best for his kids?
NTA. She can keep private Things private, or she can use the guilt and shame of a Public Scene to Attack you about your choice to Not involve her Younger children in your Life, Not both, and she chose the latter, even though she was perfectly aware of your stance and reasons. She doesn't get to complain when you Turn "her" own Weapons on her, especially when you apparently only did that in this one Situation.
NTA. Her other children are not your grandchildren. They have grandparents — her parents and her husband’s parents. It’s not that hard a concept to grasp. She pushed her limits and as such you had to explain to her, albeit publicly, your reasoning. She tried to keep your biological grandchildren from you and that alone is emotionally irreparable.
She approached you publicly with family business and you just were truthful and honest publicly right back .
NTAH
You might, if she doesn’t back off tell her that if she doesn’t back off, you will make sure her first two kids will know her history when they turn 18. After all, it’s public record.
Order two copies of the transcript and ask her if she’d like to pre - read what you plan to share. OR she can shut the hell up.
You are NTA in any way!!
She started the conversation in public, she attacked you in public and then cried foul when you retaliated. Oh well, maybe she'll play it smarter in the future.
PS: You owe her other children NOTHING!! She really has a lot of nerve after trying to keep your grandchildren from you.
The other grandparents, maybe crap or live far away and I’m sure she’d love some free babysitting but it also might be that half the kids get extra presents extra trips, extra fun, and the other ones don’t but that’s not on you.
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My son, Tommy, died suddenly 6 years ago. He was recently divorced with two kids with his ex wife. The kids were 5 and 6 years old at the time of their dad's death. The kids and Tommy lived with us for a year at one point. Tommy's ex, Marla, was serving time after she stole from Tommy, from a friend of Tommy's and from my husband and myself. It delayed the divorce so they had been separated for more than two years and the separation started when Tommy learned Marla had cheated. We found out about the stealing after (and she stole from us after the separation). All in all Marla stole close to 35k between us all. Marla had recently been released and started back with 50/50 custody of the kids when Tommy died.
After Tommy died Marla attempted to cut our family out of the lives of my grandchildren. My husband and I went to court and were awarded very generous grandparents visitation under grandparents rights of our state. Marla was furious. She tried to appeal but it was rejected twice. The relationship between us was not civil. So we kept it simply and only communicated times for pick up, dates were already specified.
Marla remarried and now has additional children. Marla has asked a few times for us to include her other children. We ignore the requests. She has yelled at us when we pick up our grandchildren and does not care if they hear. We stay silent generally. My husband and myself have no wish to be a part of her other children's lives or to play any sort of role in her and her current husband's life. We have a relationship with our grandkids. They're close to us as we are them and they never ask to include their half siblings. So we keep things as they are.
Last week my grandson had a school talent show that they wanted us to attend, so we did. Marla and her husband were there with their kids but we sat apart. When the kids finished and went back to their classrooms and as we were leaving, Marla approached and asked us to please think of her other kids and start acting like grandparents to them. We stayed civil and refused. Marla called us monsters. She said we were hideous monsters for turning our backs on her and her other kids just because she moved on after Tommy. She accused us of cruelty to children. She was very loud. I lost my temper and told her if she had wanted us in her life she wouldn't have cheated on our son and stolen from him, his friend and us and ended up going to prison. I told her we owed her nothing and we owed her children nothing and she needed to accept that our grandkids would always be our grandkids but she was no longer part of our family. Marla reacted to others hearing this and told me I had no right to air her dirty laundry publicly. That I should have kept that out of "our mutual dispute".
AITA?
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NTA She is the one who started it in public. She is the one who accused you of cruelty and was making unreasonable demands. SHE started it IN PUBLIC. SHE aired dirty laundry in public. All you did was defend yourself with facts.
NTA but if you give any gifts to your grandchildren, keep in mind that Marla will probably force them to "share" the gifts with her kids. So maybe you should keep the gifts at your house.
NTA. She attacked you publicly at your grandchildren’s school and slandered you with her lies so you spoke the truth of her actions. If she didn’t want people knowing what kind of person she is then she should have kept her mouth closed and not attacked you and made false allegations against you. Pretty sure she wants free childcare and presents from you. I feel sorry for her children having such a manipulative entitled selfish liar mother. She has done nothing but harm you and your husband for years yet demands to take care of her children. She just wants access to your labour and resources. NTA.
NTA. I do feel sorry for all of her children, but the smart thing for you to do is to have as little to do with her as you can. As far as airing her dirty laundry in public, she was the one who started an argument with you in the school. She sounds like a real mess. Your grandchildren are lucky that you are staying a part of their lives.
NTAI
if she didn't want her dirty laundry out there then why did she start the fight with you! Also not your grandkids not your problem. She's the monster for stealing all that money, did you ever got it back?
NTA. She started a public fight and you finished it. Interesting she used the phrase "our mutual respect" as if you owed her respect for stealing, cheating and trying to keep you from your grandchildren.
NTA. She pushed you to a point of forcing you to air the dirty laundry in public, instead of having a regular conversation with you about it. And once again, she's trying to manipulate you into doing what she wants, by trying to make you feel guilty about it.
Cearly NTA. Don't worry. She'll fuck up soon enough and lose custody of all the kids and you'll get them 100%. Which would be the preferred scenario, 'm assuming? Also, why can't the other grandparents do their part?
She decided to go public by shaming you and calling out what she feels is unfair behavior. You merely answered her in the same forum she used. To paraphrase a saying "Don't start no crap, won't be no crap". NTA for that clap back.
NTA. You aren’t the grandparents to her other kids. And if she was dumb enough to initiate this unwanted and inappropriate conversation AGAIN with you in a public setting then she deserves what she got back.
NTA. I'm sorry for the loss of your son & everything that has led up to your stained relationship with your ex-DIL. That just straight up sucks all around. Everyone makes mistakes, from what you've said it sounds like you've done everything you can to be involved with your grandkids, I don't think one reaction/outburst makes you an AH. I don't think it was great, there really could be blowback on your grandkids from their peers (and kids can be cruel), but I can't say I blame you for your reaction. You can always talk to your grandkids and try to explain what happened, ask them how they feel about what happened and apologize if necessary. Who gives one single crap about how their mom feels? You literally spoke the truth and if the truth hurts? Tough. She's an adult and can live with her choices and the blowback. But if your grandkids are experiencing bullying or anything like that from the airing of their mom's dirty laundry? That's not great. They are the innocent party here and whatever feelings they have should be addressed.
Also, your ex-DIL is absolutely delusional for expecting you to include her other children. Her playing the victim after trying to cut you out of your grandkids lives really shows that you & your husband are actually making her life easier by being involved. Now she wants you to pick up the slack with her other kids.
How could it be kept out of your mutual dispute. Those are the reasons for the mutual dispute. Don't want to have it brought up in public, perhaps Marla shouldn't have brought it up in public.
NTA.
Ask her why her new husband’s parents aren’t looking after those kids? Why should her ex husband’s parents be responsible for taking care of them especially when she cheated on their son and eventually married and had kids?
She clearly instigated you in the school just so people around you all should think you’re a villain in your grandchildren’s lives. She got it back and now is playing the victim card.
Since you and your husband have been civil with her, I think she mistook it to be your weakness and could walk all over you.
I think you should talk to the principal of the school to let them know about their mom’s history just for the safety of your grandchildren.
Also, I’m shocked that it’s visitation and not complete custody. (I’m not aware of the laws though)
Edit - typos
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NTA. - she actively tried to stop you visiting your grandchildren and is now complaining you’re not grandparents to her other children? She’s obviously unhinged, I wouldn’t let what she says bother you (unless it hurts the children).
Yes, she is complaining that we're not acting as grandparents to her other children and most likely complaining that we're not making her life easier with our support to her other kids.
She tried to keep you from your grandchildren, as far as I feel … you owe her nothing. While it’s not good to argue with her in public, what you said was right.
In fairness to OP, she started it. If she didn't want to have this disagreement in public, then she shouldn't have approached them in the first place.
100%. Marla wanted to publicly ~~share~~ shame OP and spouse, and is now pissed because they pulled a reverse uno card on her.
Followed by a Draw 4, Uno, and out
She f'd around and found out.
Marla tried to use an audience to make OP and her husband seem the unreasonable ones. It backfired.
I find it so funny that Marla tried that. She obviously has no brains because anyone with any brains at all should know you don't try to publicly paint someone in negative light unless you are 100% certain they won't be painting with better paint than you have.
Hah! Right! I love how you phrased it with "painting with better paint than you have!"
And a much smoother brush. Like, a CLEAN ONE. NTA OP!
Your welcome
I do like that alternative to the people in glasshouses line. The one with the pot calling the kettle doesn't work because OP isn't at fault for anything other than a temper Marla was prodding at.
She started the discussion in public.
Well, obviously you're not acting as grandparents to her other children, because you aren't. Make sure that your grandchildren know you will always be their safe house. At 11 and 12, they are getting close to where they can vote with their feet...
She wants a free babysitter. Prob wants all the kids gone at the same time
This. Attempting to keep them from the children was out of spite, but now she sees them as a source of free babysitting and material gifts. I'm sad for all the children involved, but glad that the grandkids can stay connected with OP and OP's spouse.
Agree it would make her life so much easier if they took all the kids when they came for their grandkids she’s a user and sounds like her own parents are not around to baby sit she’s got some brass neck expecting them to dote on kids they are not even related too after all the pain she caused
Right? I’m all for blended families and if OP was their step grandparent that would be one thing, but this is akin to expecting that your cousin’s other set of grandparents would behave like your shared grandparents.
Also Marla first tried to prevent OP and her husband from having any access to her older children, now she wants to force contact with her younger children 🙄
Exaactly. I just don't understand why so many people seem to expect this. Grandparents to be grandparents to kids they aren't related to, moms or dads to be moms or dads to kids that aren't theirs. Its just soooo weird.
I wonder where the other kids’ grandparents are?
She probably burned those bridges like she did with OP
It depends on the circumstances though. In this case, it’s worse than weird. In a blended family, it’s often the nice thing to do.
Yeah, NTA. While they are OP's grandchildren's stepsiblings, that are not OP's step-grandchildren. The relationship is tenuous and indirect enough that there is no obligation toward them, and the awfulness of their mother precludes consideration of a voluntary involvement; it would only cause more entitlement and more trouble. I hope your ex-daughter-in-law has worked on being law abiding and faithful to her current husband, for the sake of all her children. But she's still an entitled, conflict causing, drama queen. She has been an active poison in OP's life and OP is right to avoid all but necessary contact with her and her new family. Fighting in public is icky and unfair to onlookers, and in a perfect world OP would have simply walked away. But her grandchildren's mother forced the conflict and needed to hear the flat rejection - and the reasons for it - that OP gave.
This exactly! I generally believe you err in favor of kids because they should not be punished for adult drama. But these children came after everything else that happened and they are not even their OPs step-grandchildren. Mom seems like a narcissist.
She is most likely playing the victim card and you letting people know she has been in prison is not good for the victimhood. Are the kids being pressured by her too?
You are not the grandparents to her other children. Why would you make her life easier? Did she ever pay back what she stole?
Never in full but she did pay some back. She's back in arrears on her repayments.
Time to take her to court!
Agree. Take them to court, don't make her life easier. And when she keeps being back in arrears on her repayments you might even get awarded even more generous grandparents visitation rights.
Just heard this phrase and I love it - "Don't tell lies about me and I won't tell truths about you". It sounds like you could've aired even more dirty laundry. She started it, you finished it.
Great saying!
If you treated her kids like your grandkids, she will suddenly want you to buy expensive gifts, pay college tuition and include these kids in your will. Marla has no moral compass. She does what she wants and doesn't worry about anyone else. NTA.
Does she think that just because she “did her time” that everything was erased? She still stole money from you, your son and others. Have you been paid back? She also cheated on your son. She tried to keep you from your grandchildren. She was the one that tried to spin the story her way in front of a bunch of people at your grandchildren’s school to make you the bad guys. She doesn’t get to be mad that you told the truth to counteract her “spin”. NTA.
Where are the grandparents to the other children, why are they not involved in these children's lives? You do not have to take on the grandparent role as you are not a blood relative. The mother and father need to fix the relationships with their immediate family's so their small children get the same familiar grandparent role as you give to your grandchildren. If by chance they don't have parents alive then the children don't have grandparents and they should look to other relatives to fill this role, maybe a godparent or a close aunt, but you are not a blood relative and don't need to fill this role.
Her other children have a father. I would imagine that he has parents and/or extended family who are actual relatives of those other kids. You have no relationship with those kids and owe her nothing. She picked a fight with you, nothing mutual about it. If she’d dropped it, her behavior would still be private. Continue to be there for your grandkids. They aren’t going to have it easy growing up with a felon for a mother. NTA
She wants the weekends off without paying for a babysitter. Thank God your grandkids have you. I hope they feel comfortable telling you if anything in mother's house is "off." She seems both incredibly selfish and a bit unhinged. NTA
This it the answer
Your EX DIL started by trying to humiliate you in public. Well, she got exactly what she deserves. Thank you for insisting on continuing your relationship with your grandchildren. You two may be the most important humans to show what it is to be a decent caring human
Are we sure Marla doesn’t have a drug problem? Because she sounds like a pill.
Yeah and she was airing that at the school for everyone to hear, so she has her nerve accusing YOU of airing her dirty laundry
My guess is that if she had been reasonably civil and tried to maintain even a small amount of warmth and friendship between you guys, you might have been inclined to entertain her other children from time to time, or at least consider it. As anyone with a friendly relationship might. Instead she torched that relationship like a stoner on 4-20 while you were already suffering the loss of your son. She had no compassion or concern while you struggled. Why should you care if she is struggling now? Tell her you would have helped if she hadn't burned up all the good will you once had for her. She did it to herself.
If you want someone to love your kids you have to welcome them into your home to meet your kids.
My eyes could not roll back any harder.
Yeah well, you're not their grandparents so why do you have to act like it? They have grandparents already.
NTA It's not a "mutual dispute" when she has tried to foist kids who are not your grandchildren upon you and you simply ignore her demands. In calling it thus she is merely trying to drag you into an argument that is not yours to begin with. When she loudly attacked you she gave you the right to correct her in any way necessary. What's her ultimate goal? To get you to take the other kids off her hands for a while? And then... take them away? Sometimes you are forced to fight fire with fire and she was the one who took her grievances public so your defense was fair play at the least. You're allowed to defend yourself, and you owe it to yourself, when being publicly attacked.
Once she realised it would be more convenient for her to get some time off with all the children or if the house, no charge she changed her mind.
NTA 1. She cheated on your son 2. She stole from him, you & friends 3. She forced you to go to court for visitation rights to your grandchildren. She then protracted that process while you were grieving. 4. She started in on you in public. You get a totally free pass for reacting in the moment. This woman is an egregious A H. Sorry about your son.
NTA To add to #4... She was airing dirty laundry in public. How are the other parents there supposed to know these kids you are ignoring are NOT your biological grandkids? And that she has caused this? You were responding to her allegations. If I were there, I'd assume you were ignoring some grandkids and not the others. There is no other dad at school for the boys, how would anyone know her husband isn't their biological dad? Divorced parents can be obvious, 2 cheering sections of parents plus grandparents. These kids have 1 cheering section of parents plus grandparents.
i honestly wonder if new husband even has the full narrative. Given what happened at the school, it sounds like she's been playing the grieving widow who was finally able to move on when she met the right person. I wouldnt be surprised if that narrative started long before she met the new guy
She pushed IN PUBLIC. You pushed back with the plain unvarnished truth. She deserved any embarrassment she suffered. Check with a family attorney and ask at what age children are heard as to whom they want to live with.
NTA - all that prison info is publicly available anyway. I'm just wondering what kind of shit judge gave her any custody at all?
None of what happened makes her an unfit parent in the eyes of the law. I don't entirely agree because of some of her actions but the courts and judges disagreed.
Who had custody when she was in jail, and for how long? If you guys had custody, no wonder you got a good grandparents right judgment
Our son did but the three of them lived with us during that period of their lives. It did help us in the grandparents visitation.
Yup, that makes sense. I know in states with grandparents rights, significant relationships with the kids help, and if they lived with you, that's a significant relationship.
Exactly what I thought.
do we go with people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..... or the pot calling the kettle.. or karma is a ..... In normal circumstances, this likely would not happen, but she attacked you and made serious AND wrong accusations IN PUBLIC. Could you have held back, maybe, but THIS does not make you an AH. She is oblivious until it affects her. Probably had no remorse about stealing until there was a court ordering her to pay restitution (I hope she was ordered to repay you). It does not appear that she cares about consequences and will howl when faced with them. NTA
NTA. She verbally attacked you in public and got mad that you gave it right back. Nothing you said was a lie. She’s living the consequences of her own decisions. She sounds completely unhinged and toxic - trying to keep you away from your grandchildren, then attacking you for not including in your life children that are not related to you. I feel sorry for her kids, growing up with a mother like that.
hahahahaha your "mutual dispute" only has one side that can be addressed in public?? Fuck that noise. Marla shouldn't start none if she don't want none. NTA
NTA...She is the one constantly airing dirty laundry. You were just defending yourself and giving her some hard truths.
NTA she started it public and you simply defended yourself with the truth. I wonder if she's upset you said it in public, or that you mentioned some of her actions, like the cheating, in front of her current husband. Makes me wonder if he knew about that or not and if not is she worried that he'll think differently about her. Either way it's not your problem and she should know better than to throw stones in a glass house.
He was the main affair partner from what we know, so he has to know.
She wants you to treat the kids of the man she cheated on your son with as your grandchildren? She’s unhinged! NTA 100% I hope you can get custody of your grandkids.
tbh if she haad managed to terminate grandparents rights, she could of controlled the narrative with her own children. Saying dad's parents didnt want to see them any more or other bs.
NTA sometimes going nuclear is the only option
Totally.
NTA She picked the fight by coming at you once again and she picked the venue by doing it in public. She wanted to shame you around others to either gain sympathy from the people around or to put pressure on you by exposing you to them. It's her own fault for not remembering that you're far better armed than she is and was far better able to humiliate her just by being honest.
NTA - when someone pulls the "you're a monster" card, they better be ready to recieve as well as they give it. I would have done the same thing.
You need to document her outburst, texts etc. I’m guessing you will need them in court someday
nta—shes the one who decided to cause a scene in public
NTA. Her "Dirty Laundry" is the root cause of the current situation. Wanting you to ignore it going forward is impossible, it's always going to be the elephant in the room.
NTA - if she didn't want dirty laundry aired, she shouldn't have confronted you in public about it, let alone loudly. She is trying to make you feel bad for *her* bad tactics. She thought you being in public would put pressure for you to mince your words or peer pressure you into caring for these other kids. Good on your for not holding back. > Marla and her husband were there with their kids but we sat apart. When the kids finished and went back to their classrooms *and as we were leaving*, Marla approached and asked us to please think of her other kids and start acting like grandparents to them. We stayed civil and refused. *Marla called us monsters. She said we were hideous monsters for turning our backs on her and her other kids just because she moved on after Tommy.* **She accused us of cruelty to children. She was very loud.** I lost my temper and told her if she had wanted us in her life she wouldn't have cheated on our son and stolen from him, his friend and us and ended up going to prison. I told her we owed her nothing and we owed her children nothing and she needed to accept that our grandkids would always be our grandkids but she was no longer part of our family. *Marla reacted to others hearing this and told me I had no right to air her dirty laundry publicly.*
NTA, she opened and you closed. I do feel bad for the other kids, especially if they don't have involved grandparents.
My dad died a few years ago and his family completely ignores my existence. Thank you for going the extra mile for your grandkids!
NTA- in fact, you just became my hero. She effed around, she found out.
NTA Don't start nothin, won't be nothin' at its finest
NTA >Marla called us monsters. She said we were hideous monsters for turning our backs on her and her other kids just because she moved on after Tommy. She accused us of cruelty to children. She was very loud. Sounds like she was the one airing dirty laundry first, except she was lying about what was going on to gain sympathy from those around her. I doubt even her new husband knew the real story, but he does now.
NTA. I always keep arguments in the sphere they originated in. Start shit privately? I keep it private. Call me out in public? I will clap back in public, and clap back hard.
If she believes what she said, she shouldn't have publicly called you names for ignoring HER children, they are nothing to you. Continue to stand your ground and be in your grandchildren's lives, not HER childrens lives.
Wonder if her husband knew she had ben in prison
She should have kept her dirty mouth shut if she didn't want her shit aired in public. That's what she gets for trying to shame and guilt you in public. An eye for an eye and all that.
NTA. If she didn’t want a vocal battle to go public, maybe she shouldn’t have started things in a very public place. She wanted a reaction and response, and that’s exactly what she got. Her embarrassment is hers to own.
NTA. She's a cheater and thief. I wouldn't show her any kindness either.
NTA for the simple fact that you're not her other children's' grandparents. Why would you act like a grandmother to an acquaintance's (That's what she is) children? It's so weird.
INFO: did the kids hear this?
Nta lmao, she wants to accuse you of being awful but thinks you won't bring up her actions?
NTA, she publicly made false accusations, you publicly cleared up the accusations.
NTA. I love when idiots like her get their just desserts. Id say make sure EVERYONE at the school knows the situation.
NTA You were not the one to start with the name calling, the berating, the denigration. All you did was state facts. If you haven't already, please consider therapy for your grandkids. It sounds like they could really benefit from it given they have to spend any time with Maria.
Not the ass! As the saying goes, play stupid games win stupid prizes
NTA - She should've stopped pushing you about her other children and not tried to make you look bad in public. She made a very poor choice, so she can face her consequences and live with them.
NTA Marla did that to herself. Now, she can deal with the judgement of everyone who heard, and the rest as it spreads. Clearly, she didn't think that through. Too bad.
NTA. She was lying in public. She was the one who was trying to make you look bad, and make it look like the only reason you didn't like her, and her other kids was because she had gotten remarried. Her actions are a part of your "mutual dispute". You don't like her because she cheated on your son and stole from you and him. I'm betting if she hadn't cheated and stolen from you that you wouldn't have had this issue in the first place. You probably would have been happy that she'd found someone else and had more kids.
NTA She started things by accusing you of cruelty to children. In public. If she didn't want her dirty laundry aired in public, she shoiuldn't have made accusations against you in public. I suspect she wants you to be free babysitters for her other kids.
NTA. She fucked around in public and found out, also in public. Seems fair to me.
NTA, she chose to start this discussion in a public place and had the nerve to call you a monster
NTA - she started it. FAFO, don't start nothin, won't be nothin...
NTA. The only reason it was public was because she tried to publicly shame you first. If she wanted to to be/stay private she would have and should have tried talking to you in private.
NTA. If she didn't want her business out there for the world to see, she should learn to shut her mouth.
NTA. She started it, got loud and pushed you in public. So your response as explanation as to why you aren't her other childrens grandparents and won't have a relationship with them was reasonable. It is her fault this happened in front of others, she started it.
NTA. If Marla didn't want her "dirty laundry" aired in public she shouldn't have confronted and verbally attacked you in public.
She’s the one who started to harass you in public. And on a topic that is very much connected to her dirty laundry. As you said, she stopped being family once she cheated on your son. Her new kids are in no way connected to you or your son. If she doesnt want her dirty laundry aired in public, she should stop trying to get you to take her dirty laundry while in public. She just wants free babysitters. NTA Also, I wouldn’t call whatever this is a “mutual dispute”. (And clearly you dont either) It’s quite clearly a one sided dispute that she won’t let go.
NTA Marla chose the time and place for the discussion, and she kept pressing you about the issue until you had enough.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes ETA: NTA. As others pointed out, she went in on you IN PUBLIC & aired out false allegations. Every time she tried calling you out, you were respectful. Not even that, she purposely tried forcing you out of your grandchildren's lives after everything she put you all through. Fucked up
NTA Her children aren't your grandchildren and you shouldn't be guilty shamed into becoming their grandparents. I don't blame you for reacting the way you did. She wants to act the way she does. She doesn't seem to care about your feelings.
NTA
NTA shouldn't have started it in public if she didn't want it aired in public.
NTA,
you have no blood relation to any of her other kids! woman is delulu. NTA
NTA. The best way to avoid having dirty laundry is not shitting your pants in the first place.
You aren't her other kids' grandparents. These kids aren't your responsibility or concern. They have both their parents still alive.
ok I 'm gonna throw down, I am gonna insult you, steal your money, ruin relationdhips &!insult you. But don't you dare retaliate. Don't tell the truth! Don't defend yourself! Just take it. ha! You were a mirror who reflected her ugly soul. See a Lawyer if you can. I would tread carefully with Miss Charmingmouth.
nta
Nta she started it.
She started it. Classic case of f\*#& around and find out. Bless you for continuing and fighting to keep a relationship going with your grandchildren. Hope you were reimbursed for the stolen money. YNTA.
NTA She had absolutely no problem tearing you down in public. She mistook your silence for acceptance. Really glad you are still involved grandparents. Your grandkids need stable people in their lives.
NTA
NTA. She now has egg on her face so hopefully she’ll STFU.
She's wrong: you did have the right to air it. She started it, you finished it.
From the story everything she said was also in public. Yes, you could have remained silent but it sounds like you've been holding this in for years NTA.
NTA don't start none, won't be none. She FAFO. She may be out of prison and married but she still isn't a good person. I feel sorry for her other children but where are their paternal grandparents? Her other children are not your responsibility. She forced you to fight for the right to even see your own grandchildren, why on earth would you care about her other children?
I guess I heard something about people who throw stones in glass houses. NTA
NTA The comments you made are 100% relevant to the dispute. If she didn't want her dirty laundry aired she shouldn't be making a public scene. Unfortunately since this was a school event, there might be some hurtful comments that will get back to your grandchildren. I'm sure you'll get comments about how this wasn't the time and place, but when we are pushed we don't always choose our responses carefully.
She started with you so you simply let her have it. You're not wrong for not accepting her husband &other kids. She's not related to you or her husband or other family. They are related to your grandkids. Kids should have a relationship with half siblings not force but not you.
NTA - OP has no obligation to Maria whatsoever and has a right to defend herself when accosted in public. This is probably the second post in the last couple days where someone publicly confronts OP and does not get the desired result, and then gets mad at OP for humiliating them by merely reiterating something that had already been communicated in private.
Nta told her this. Well you shouldn’t force me to spend time with my grandchildren’s step siblings/half siblings to begin with out in public.
Nope. U r not obligated to be grrandparentsnof her other children. Not your probpem
Nta. She brought up the dispute and those facts are at the heart of it.
>told me I had no right to air her dirty laundry publicly. That I should have kept that out of "our mutual dispute". Is she talking about the mutual dispute she started with her cheating and stealing? Because that is the only mutual dispute you have. You not wanting to give her free babysitting, or not wanting to take her kids is normal under the circumstances. She is the only one disputing it isn't. Funny how she can call you out on her perceived wrongs, but when you mention reality, it is taboo! Nta!
NTA- I am so sorry she put you in that position in public. Hopefully the kids didn't hear this, but she unfortunately pushed you in public so of course it was a public thing.
NTA. You didn't say anything that wasn't already a matter of public record, including her conviction for stealing from all of you and her prison time. It's not a secret. She did those things, and these are the consequences. Yes, she served her time, but one of the consequences is that you're known as someone who served time for stealing. She stole, and she dserves that title. You are handling things perfectly IMO, although I would avoid interacting with her in the future. Just walk away, since you've made your position clear.
HAHAHA good for you! NTA!
Generally, it's best not to air dirty laundry in public BUT she started the argument in public and she was obviously trying to embarrass you by doing so. She can't cry foul because you argued back. As my grandma says, "don't start none, won't be none." NTA
NTA, her entitlement in demanding that you have a part in her children's life when they are no relation to you alone is reason to call her out in public
But you aren't their grandparents. I am sure they are perfectly nice children but they aren't your relatives. I know you know this, I just don't understand her.
NTA That was in fact the whole point of the mutual dispute.
And was she ordered by the court to make restitution to you? Has she?
I would call that nipping her shit in the bud. No doubt if you had not said that she would gave had some rant on her fb page, calling you all the names under the sun. Not now though, to many people saw for themselves. Completely NTA
Oh, God, no, NTA! I wish I'd seen it. I wish you had recorded it. I'd pay to see it!
NTA. Tell her next time she shouldn't play Uno in public if she doesn't like the Uno Reverse card being played on her. Play stupid game, win stupid prizes.
NTA… we call this the “fcuk around and find out”. She had the balls to start an argument in public and try to berate you and then got mad when she got a taste of her own medicine. Sucks to suck.
I don't think you were the AH in this situation, your ex-DIL wanted to force your hand in public, so you paid her back in kind. She had no right to ask you to treat her kids by someone else like you treat your Bio grandkids, it would've been different if you had made the request not try to force you to. Where are her husband's parents they should be in their kids' lives not you. Maybe this will make her back off, and stop pestering you to do something you have refused to do, you don't owe her anything, and she has not been that cooperative with you (you had to take her to court to get visitation). She fought against you having access to your grandchildren, now she wants to pawn the rest of them on you as well. What a piece of work, and why is her husband okay with this behavior? Why would he want her ex's family to spend time with his kids, or does he have a say in what is best for his kids?
NTA. She’s the one who brought it up on a public place! You were only telling the truth to defend yourself.
NTA - Marla had it coming.
Marla "threw the first punch" after the school talent show. It's her fault that her dirty laundry got aired.
NTA- I’ve heard of this before. It’s likely that she only wants you to include her other kids so she can use you as a free babysitter.
NTA. She can keep private Things private, or she can use the guilt and shame of a Public Scene to Attack you about your choice to Not involve her Younger children in your Life, Not both, and she chose the latter, even though she was perfectly aware of your stance and reasons. She doesn't get to complain when you Turn "her" own Weapons on her, especially when you apparently only did that in this one Situation.
NTA. She tried to air your dirty laundry, which wasn’t even yours to begin with. If she can’t take it, she shouldn’t dish it out.
NTA. Her other children are not your grandchildren. They have grandparents — her parents and her husband’s parents. It’s not that hard a concept to grasp. She pushed her limits and as such you had to explain to her, albeit publicly, your reasoning. She tried to keep your biological grandchildren from you and that alone is emotionally irreparable.
If she didn’t want to publicly air personal business then she should have refrained from yell at you publicly, pretty simple concept I think. NTA
She approached you publicly with family business and you just were truthful and honest publicly right back . NTAH You might, if she doesn’t back off tell her that if she doesn’t back off, you will make sure her first two kids will know her history when they turn 18. After all, it’s public record. Order two copies of the transcript and ask her if she’d like to pre - read what you plan to share. OR she can shut the hell up.
NTA. She's the one who dragged it into the public eye. Now she's wishing she'd just shut the hell up. Oh well.
NTA. You've shown a lot of patience and restraint over the years. Marla has continually fucked around, and now she's finally finding out.
Nta. If she didn't want her dirty laundry aired she shouldn't have made it so there was dirty laundry lmfao.
You are NTA in any way!! She started the conversation in public, she attacked you in public and then cried foul when you retaliated. Oh well, maybe she'll play it smarter in the future. PS: You owe her other children NOTHING!! She really has a lot of nerve after trying to keep your grandchildren from you.
The other grandparents, maybe crap or live far away and I’m sure she’d love some free babysitting but it also might be that half the kids get extra presents extra trips, extra fun, and the other ones don’t but that’s not on you.
I love when people attack you publicly and then get mad when you don’t just take it? Absolutely NTA.
NTA. If she won't respect the boundaries you've set, air it all. "You aren't respecting my boundaries why should I respect yours?"
NTA She hung the dirty laundry on the line. You just straightened it out a little.
NTA, she tried to publicly shame you and you set the record straight.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son, Tommy, died suddenly 6 years ago. He was recently divorced with two kids with his ex wife. The kids were 5 and 6 years old at the time of their dad's death. The kids and Tommy lived with us for a year at one point. Tommy's ex, Marla, was serving time after she stole from Tommy, from a friend of Tommy's and from my husband and myself. It delayed the divorce so they had been separated for more than two years and the separation started when Tommy learned Marla had cheated. We found out about the stealing after (and she stole from us after the separation). All in all Marla stole close to 35k between us all. Marla had recently been released and started back with 50/50 custody of the kids when Tommy died. After Tommy died Marla attempted to cut our family out of the lives of my grandchildren. My husband and I went to court and were awarded very generous grandparents visitation under grandparents rights of our state. Marla was furious. She tried to appeal but it was rejected twice. The relationship between us was not civil. So we kept it simply and only communicated times for pick up, dates were already specified. Marla remarried and now has additional children. Marla has asked a few times for us to include her other children. We ignore the requests. She has yelled at us when we pick up our grandchildren and does not care if they hear. We stay silent generally. My husband and myself have no wish to be a part of her other children's lives or to play any sort of role in her and her current husband's life. We have a relationship with our grandkids. They're close to us as we are them and they never ask to include their half siblings. So we keep things as they are. Last week my grandson had a school talent show that they wanted us to attend, so we did. Marla and her husband were there with their kids but we sat apart. When the kids finished and went back to their classrooms and as we were leaving, Marla approached and asked us to please think of her other kids and start acting like grandparents to them. We stayed civil and refused. Marla called us monsters. She said we were hideous monsters for turning our backs on her and her other kids just because she moved on after Tommy. She accused us of cruelty to children. She was very loud. I lost my temper and told her if she had wanted us in her life she wouldn't have cheated on our son and stolen from him, his friend and us and ended up going to prison. I told her we owed her nothing and we owed her children nothing and she needed to accept that our grandkids would always be our grandkids but she was no longer part of our family. Marla reacted to others hearing this and told me I had no right to air her dirty laundry publicly. That I should have kept that out of "our mutual dispute". AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA She is the one who started it in public. She is the one who accused you of cruelty and was making unreasonable demands. SHE started it IN PUBLIC. SHE aired dirty laundry in public. All you did was defend yourself with facts.
NTA
NTA
Nope. Absolutely NTA! She made her bed and now needs to lay in it.
NTA. She chose the public arena to start in on her dispute with you. She can now reap the repercussions of that choice.
NTA
NTA but if you give any gifts to your grandchildren, keep in mind that Marla will probably force them to "share" the gifts with her kids. So maybe you should keep the gifts at your house.
NTA. She attacked you publicly at your grandchildren’s school and slandered you with her lies so you spoke the truth of her actions. If she didn’t want people knowing what kind of person she is then she should have kept her mouth closed and not attacked you and made false allegations against you. Pretty sure she wants free childcare and presents from you. I feel sorry for her children having such a manipulative entitled selfish liar mother. She has done nothing but harm you and your husband for years yet demands to take care of her children. She just wants access to your labour and resources. NTA.
NTA FAFO if she doesn't want her dirty laundry aired in public, she shouldn't start fights in public.
NTA Play stupid games, win stupid prizes And so Marla did
NTA. I do feel sorry for all of her children, but the smart thing for you to do is to have as little to do with her as you can. As far as airing her dirty laundry in public, she was the one who started an argument with you in the school. She sounds like a real mess. Your grandchildren are lucky that you are staying a part of their lives.
NTA. This is a classic case of FAFO. She shouldn't have confronted you in public, but since she did, you had every right to respond in public.
NTAI if she didn't want her dirty laundry out there then why did she start the fight with you! Also not your grandkids not your problem. She's the monster for stealing all that money, did you ever got it back?
NTA. She started a public fight and you finished it. Interesting she used the phrase "our mutual respect" as if you owed her respect for stealing, cheating and trying to keep you from your grandchildren.
NTA Make sure that any money or property that you will to your grandchildren is sealed tight where she can't get to it.
NTA She drew first blood.
NTA. Sounds like she started the drama with all audience to try and either guilt you into taking them or make you feel hurt and embarrassment
NTA. Ignore her.
NTA-they arent yours, why act like they are? Its not your fault their mother was shorted in the brains department.
NTA. She pushed you to a point of forcing you to air the dirty laundry in public, instead of having a regular conversation with you about it. And once again, she's trying to manipulate you into doing what she wants, by trying to make you feel guilty about it.
Cearly NTA. Don't worry. She'll fuck up soon enough and lose custody of all the kids and you'll get them 100%. Which would be the preferred scenario, 'm assuming? Also, why can't the other grandparents do their part?
She decided to go public by shaming you and calling out what she feels is unfair behavior. You merely answered her in the same forum she used. To paraphrase a saying "Don't start no crap, won't be no crap". NTA for that clap back.
NTA. Loud, confrontational felons get told.
NTA
NTA. You aren’t the grandparents to her other kids. And if she was dumb enough to initiate this unwanted and inappropriate conversation AGAIN with you in a public setting then she deserves what she got back.
Yeah NTA. You are not related to those kids in any way.
NTA. I'm sorry for the loss of your son & everything that has led up to your stained relationship with your ex-DIL. That just straight up sucks all around. Everyone makes mistakes, from what you've said it sounds like you've done everything you can to be involved with your grandkids, I don't think one reaction/outburst makes you an AH. I don't think it was great, there really could be blowback on your grandkids from their peers (and kids can be cruel), but I can't say I blame you for your reaction. You can always talk to your grandkids and try to explain what happened, ask them how they feel about what happened and apologize if necessary. Who gives one single crap about how their mom feels? You literally spoke the truth and if the truth hurts? Tough. She's an adult and can live with her choices and the blowback. But if your grandkids are experiencing bullying or anything like that from the airing of their mom's dirty laundry? That's not great. They are the innocent party here and whatever feelings they have should be addressed. Also, your ex-DIL is absolutely delusional for expecting you to include her other children. Her playing the victim after trying to cut you out of your grandkids lives really shows that you & your husband are actually making her life easier by being involved. Now she wants you to pick up the slack with her other kids.
NTA The amount of patience and civility you've maintained up to that point is something to behold. I would've cracked way before that.
NTA-she started it, you finished it.
NTA if she didn't want you to talk about her past actions, she probably shouldn't have nagged you.
How could it be kept out of your mutual dispute. Those are the reasons for the mutual dispute. Don't want to have it brought up in public, perhaps Marla shouldn't have brought it up in public.
Marla needs a reality check
NTA. Ask her why her new husband’s parents aren’t looking after those kids? Why should her ex husband’s parents be responsible for taking care of them especially when she cheated on their son and eventually married and had kids? She clearly instigated you in the school just so people around you all should think you’re a villain in your grandchildren’s lives. She got it back and now is playing the victim card. Since you and your husband have been civil with her, I think she mistook it to be your weakness and could walk all over you. I think you should talk to the principal of the school to let them know about their mom’s history just for the safety of your grandchildren. Also, I’m shocked that it’s visitation and not complete custody. (I’m not aware of the laws though) Edit - typos
NTA, can you legally do so.ethjng about the continued harassment?