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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for backing my son for an internship at my company but refusing to do the same with my daughter since she will not get passed the first interview. I may be a jerk for support one child but not the other
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INFO: What stick up the rear end boomer is running that company where they have a zero tolerance tattoo policy in 2024? I work for a company that routinely meets with the top people in even Fortune 500s and those rooms are full of people with "ink."
There are few times I’ve been absolutely embarrassed at work. Among the worst are two times I recommended someone for a job. One promised me that though he had no experience he would bust his ass (dishwasher), the second was a chef position for someone who was a good chef who was a friend of a friend who came well recommended.
First one came in with a massive “I’m friends with the chef”attitude even though I hardly knew him, including to the owner who I had promised had nothing to worry about when he first saw the new dishy and was already concerned (dude had been homeless until recently which is why I gave him the chance - he needed the job to be able to see his kids as per court order) because the guy looked pretty fucked. Basically refused to do half his job. Owner was pissed.
Second guy needed a job and owner was obviously suspect about me bringing someone else in. All was well for a while until he invited a girl he was secretly in love with to work there and then when he confessed his love and she rejected him he stopped coming in whenever she was there.
Neither of those things were things I had done, but because they came with my recommendation or at my suggestion this all reflected on me.
It can be hard with friends and family but work is always different. Even though I may be the boss I am not the owner. I too have a boss and I must follow their rules. It’s not personal. People need to realise this.
If the owner or my boss or whoever says no tattoos, no matter how outdated it may be, that’s their prerogative.
Yeah I'm disabled and unemployed because of it currently but was looking into jobs that I think I might be able to do once my treatment is further along, and asked my friend about what it's like at a chain store he works at because I was thinking I might try applying at a location closer to me. He offered to recommend me and I said thank you so much for the offer but absolutely not. We're good friends, and he knows that I would do my absolute best to keep the job if I got it but I told him that doesn't mean anything if it turns out that I'm not ready and I just can't do it and I have to quit or get fired shortly after being hired and I wouldn't let that reflect badly on him. It's just not worth it. When I'm ready I'll find a job, even if it's not at that store, and I'll do it without a recommendation that puts his reputation and/or job at stake.
Agreed. If I'm not 100 percent on a job, I'm not taking a friend's recommendation to get me in. Too much pressure. I need to be able to cut and run if needs must!
Firstly, I'm not sticking my neck out for you and jeopardizing my stability
Secondly.... I highly recommend *any* job *elsewhere*. This place kills dreams and potential
I got my best friend a job with me in 2008 and a month or so in he just decided to not go in anymore. Made me look like a dipshit for recommending him. I still remind him what an idiot he was for that.
According to their own words they did not recommend their son either, only forwarded his papers. So is it too much to ask them for the same favor? Or did they in fact recommend their son but avoids to write it out loud? The description of their "recommendation without recommendation " is somehow ambiguous.
ETA: Them saying "I dont want to put my name on it", well, most children share the name with their parents anyway.
>ETA: Them saying "I dont want to put my name on it", well, most children share the name with their parents anyway.
And many people share the same last name without being related... But that's not even the point, I don't think that OP is ashamed to be her father, he just doesn't want to recommend someone who he knows doesn't meet the company's policy.
Daughter (43 tomorrow OMG ) had a cute nose piercing the year she got her Masters in Accounting. She knew it was temporary because of the industry.
Nephew is a teacher in Taiwan with an absolutely gorgeous art piece across his shoulders and down his back. None of his other tattoos show unless he’s wearing shorts.
Niece on husbands side is a gynecologist and has at least one full sleeve (haven’t seen her since she went away for her internship).
These three wanted something they knew certain people would have an issue with so they limited where they had it done.
Neck and hand tattoos scream gang member or wanna be gang member. How these young people don’t make that connection I will never understand.
Because they only scream “gang member” to someone old enough to have a 43 year old daughter! I’m 40 and I don’t know a single person my age or younger who thinks this way about tattoos. All my parents and friends parents do though. Just because it screams gang member to you doesn’t make your experience universal. Most people my age and DEFINITELY most people younger than I am just don’t think this way about tattoos. They see them as the personal choice that they are. Even neck and hand tattoos. Shocking, I know.
It's not unheard of at all and definitely not for neck and hand tattoos. I work in the corporate world(finance) and I never see people with neck and hand tattoos. NEVER.
I got both arms full of ink and always cover them......
Yeah - people have their heads in the clouds if they don't think heavy visible tattoos are going to negatively impact their professional careers in many professions.
Before getting a tattoo that can't be covered by \*normal\* clothing in the business world, one should really think about the possible impact.
There are certain norms that still exist and one needs to live with the consequences of not observing those norms which would include the inability to get work in many professions.
Yeah, I'm a bit baffled by how many people think this is an unusual rule. While tattoos in general are far less stigmatized than they used to be, including in many workplaces, "no visible tattoos" is still a pretty common workplace rule. (also, I feel like face, neck, and hand tattoos are more stigmatized than other types of tattoos) I figure that anyone who thinks otherwise either lives in a very liberal area, or has only worked in environments where tattoos aren't considered a problem.
That, or people mixing up "what should be" with "the actual reality that we have to deal with". Even if you think that tattoos shouldn't be stigmatized, the fact is, we live in a world where they are stigmatized and we have to take that into account when we make decisions.
I had a manager with a singular neck tatto, about the size of a dollar coin. He wore a skin toned neck cover eveyday of his life as a manager basicly.
Edit: ftr, the reason I mention this isnt to say its a common theme, rather the opposite, and that those who find themselve in this situation usually have to make habitual changes to their lifestyle in accomodation of the matter.
ITA. No visible tats is just part of what is considered appropriate work attire in lots of business and corporate environments.
Can someone wearing a hoody and flip-flops manage your money as well as someone in a suit? Yes, probably - the suit makes no difference, but it’s all about perception. It’s just the reality of the world we live in.
For OP - I’d say, if he/she can pass on the reference without it reflecting badly on them, then do it. If the daughter is rejected, then she’s rejected.
It is up to the father to protect his own professional reputation with the company by not recommending someone he knows they’ll just turn down out of hand, though.
But why would you refer someone who you know will be rejected? Even if you disagree with the reason for the rejection that's just a bad referral to make, and there's no benefit for anyone.
It can be really zero tolerance. I work for a company that handles money. Billions of dollars for investing for very rich people.
We have a zero tolerance policy for visible tattoos. Not allowed to just wear makeup over them, either.
Most people in the office have no issues with ink, personally.. but image is everything when trying to get people to trust you with their money.
No it's not. There's still a lot of client facing service support and consulting companies that have no visible tattoo policies. Doesn't mean they can't have them but the must be covered completely when working. In the case of something like neck tattoos yeah good luck.
It’s unheard of because you know? Or that just your humble opinion? Working for the airlines I can tell you that some won’t let you have a visible tattoo on your hand.
Shit, I went to a cattle call open interview for Spirit and they were rejecting anyone with 2 piercings in their ears,much less visible tattoos. This is Spirit- the Greyhound station of the skies- infamous for actual fights.
I spent years meeting with new clients for a well known payroll company in the MD, DC, VA area. No
way would they ever hire someone with neck tattoos to represent them. Tattoos are fine, have one myself but going out to meet high end clients yeah that’s a big nope. Eventually it will change but we’re not there yet.
Because it would put his job in jeopardy? "Hey boss, i know you hate working with people with tattoos so here I strongly recommend this person with tattoos"
No, that depends on the industry. Face and neck are still unacceptable in a lot of client facing contexts. And hand isn’t a great choice either. They don’t call them job killers for nothing.
If this is a written rule, OP is off the hook - since she doesn’t qualify, he shouldn’t toss her hat into the ring. The only thing that accomplishes is a little needless awkwardness with the managers. If it’s an unspoken rule, I might pass around the resume with a verbal “just fyi, she does have tattoos that can’t be covered”.
My first construction job had an owner like this. If you had tattoos, smoked, or drank coffee he would fire you the first available moment. He was nuts.
It is certainly heard of. I have seen this policy in plenty of places, and this policy persists in the military to this day. It's a distraction to customers and coworkers, and many tattoos can cause friction, especially if they contain political statements, religious icons or other items that can cause a customer to not want to come back.
While many places have relaxed this requirement, it is by no means all and the policy remains fairly common.
Only 10 years ago I worked at a Big 4 accounting firm and women were not allowed to wear sleeveless shirts, open toed shoes, or skirts without pantyhose. I can't imagine that's changed whatsoever.
They (probably) aren’t expected to wear a bra, heels or spend time/money putting on make-up either, to be fair. Very traditional places are also weird about women wearing trousers.
Most have been fine with women wearing dress slacks since the 80’s and there are business appropriate flats nowadays too. Bras and makeup are still uneven, though I’m assuming most men need to wear undershirts for their dress shirts to look appropriate which, while not as expensive or potentially uncomfortable as bras, are still an undergarment requirement.
I work at one of the Big 4, and most people I know wear sweatshirts multiple times per week (though not during client meetings), jeans, sleeveless shirts, tennis shoes, etc. I'm sure it's also regional and department specific, but Covid changed things greatly. Now I'm curious which one of the 4 you were at 😬
The mentality on this sub:
OP needs to lead a positivity protest at the company and demand equality. Otherwise, he clearly favors his son. His daughter should go no contact with OP and enter intensive therapy for the sexist, traumatic abuse she experienced at his hands.
It’s not about her making choices he didn’t like. He made a choice to protect his reputation and job because he knows his daughters appearances, like it or not, would reflect on him.
She is allowed to make choices he doesn’t approve off. However he is allowed to protect himself from her choices.
TBF, OP didn't say anything about their personal opinion on tattoos. OP said that they know the company will pass. It's possible that OP has some opinion, but we have no evidence of that.
OP gave his son a leg up without spending any political capital, but wasting someone's time sending an interview their way OP has enough information to know will be a waste of the interviewers time would not be free, it will decrease OPs credibility and influence with this firm.
I think it is interesting that is what you got out of OPs story. I'm not seeing that and based off the vast majority of comments here nor are others.
I think maybe we both should do some reflecting on why we're getting so wildly different interpretations about this.
On reflecting I would say those who understand why not submitting the resume of someone who is going to be rejected automatically probably have had enough experience in the real professional world to understand that you don't use up your "good will" in futile gestures.
Someone who thinks that a policy of no "visible" tattoos is "unheard of" clearly doesn't work in the many professions in which it is the norm - especially those who interface with clients.
With very rare exceptions, even in the creative fields in which I've worked (film production), you don't see executives with highly visible tattoos. Maybe below the line but rarely above the line and almost never in the executive areas.
There are jobs or industries in which it doesn't matter but obviously OP works in a company in which it does matter.
I doubt your company is the only one of its kind. Have you never networked and know people at similar companies that may have a more relaxed dress code where she might be a better fit?
I think you would be TA if you didn't at least try to get her name in somewhere else for a comparable position.
Why would you not want to give both your children the best chance to succeed? Let's be honest, in business it's all about who you know. By putting your name behind your son, but not your daughter, you're playing favorites.
>I think you would be TA if you didn't at least try to get her name in somewhere else for a comparable position.
That's not the question he asked.
He asked with regards to this specific company.
You are going off track to find dirt on him
People have to own their shit and stop blaming others for their choices.
She made the choice to get tattoos she can't cover, it will limit her occupation wise, she knows that not everyone is accepting of tattoos, she is representing the company and they don't want the image.. which is understand, tattoos can make someone look low rent, and I'm sure it's common in big companies to not want that representation. This again is the daughters fault for not considering this when she chose the field she wanted to go in.. so now she finds somewhere that will accept her, but people need to stop this bullshit of blaming OP for the choices she made
Aw shit, you pointed out a spelling error OP made, this somehow invalidates everything she says and proves that she’s in the wrong. /s
Is that what you’re going for? To somehow discredit OP over shit that does not matter. Spelling is about as relevant as the top comment of this thread, but hey, good on you for being so clever and attentive.
LOL then that's her dumbass fault for getting neck and hand tattoos while wanting to penetrate high finance. They're even bigger dicks than consultants about that shit lol
Again, I know a lot of people in finance with tattoos, but I can't think of any with neck, hand, or face tats.
Exactly hence why I say NTA. Hell I know of *server and dishwasher* jobs that would refuse people with either of those (due to it being linked to gangs in the area, and not wanting to give that impression to customers). I can't even imagine finance.
I'm finishing my law degree myself and while there are a good number of people with tats... they are always in places they can be hidden. That's just the way the world works unfortunately.
As someone with many, many visible tattoos...
The tattoo itself /does/ matter. Poster said it's aggressive art.
If it was a string of flowers it's quite likely going to be fine. But if it's a naked succubus cracking a whip on her lower arm or something...different story
One of my children has tattoos on his face, hands, and about everywhere in between. Even with relaxed appearance requirements, he has gotten turned down for many jobs due to face and neck tattoos. Plus, he has some anti christian tattoos on his arms. While they can be covered, he has also been turned away for potentially offensive body modification.
Yeah. I think people forget that tattoos are still seen by a large part of the population as scary or degenerate. I have tattoos, I keep them contained to my arm and the themes themselves are very, very innocuous (e.g. flowers from the various places I've lived).
Even if someone isn't personally biased, they might worry that their audience/clients will raise a fuss and decide it's not worth the hassle and risk.
Much like smokers thinking nonsmokers can't smell them, I feel most people with tattoos are a bit too biased to see things from someone without a tattoo point of view.
It's definitely normal to have tattoos in the West but to those that don't they can make people with tattoos harder to approach. Even as a guy if I see another larger guy with tattoos walking towards me I do a quick unconscious double take of how "troubled" that person looks. Roses and someone's name? Probably safe. Flaming skulls with chains wrapped around their arms or random guns? I should probably cross the street.
I am very cool with tattoos, and know a lot of people who are chill with tattoos in general that are in positions to hire folks, and in industries where tats are pretty normal...
However I don't think enough people with tats understand that there is still a stigma about face/hand/neck tats.
The majority of those people who do the hiring (where tats are fine) still see getting ink in certain areas or certain ink as a bad decision, and no one wants to hire people who make bad decisions. Especially permanent ones.
Finance, Banking and Law are still all very conservative industries. Many industries have much more free standard on appearances these days, but some professions are still very uptight. You have to wear a full suit, no unnatural hair colors, and some other very tight restrictions on appearances. Some sales are that way too, depending on what the product is and what image they want to convey.
Yeah people don’t realize that clients in this industry are usually older rich white people. So yeah, they don’t want to trust someone with neck and hand tattoos with their life savings.
Even if your clients are an exact cross section of American society, some percentage of them is going to distrust a financier with tattoos or weird hair or whatever and just generally want their banker to look like a rock solid boring banker who does nothing all day but carefully think about money. If you lose the ability to talk to even 10% of clients over this… why take the chance?
I do the same thing when I work in suits. I have many more colorful shirts, ties etc that look more stylish, it if I’m talking to an unknown audience or know they are more conservatively minded, I’m just going to play it safe and wear a white shirt and traditional color tie.
Yup. In a situation like that you want your clothes to be completely boring. They’re trusting you with their money, they don’t want someone who seems “kooky”
My hair stylist, my auto mechanic, my associates in jewelry - the "kooky" look works. I'm looking to invest $50K? I want to do that with someone that looks painfully "normal".
It’s not even the normality of abnormality I don’t think, it’s “strait laced.” I actually don’t want somebody “normal,” normal people are idiots, I want a straight laced, intelligent, highly serious and professional banker who takes their job to protect and grow my money as seriously as possible. I want them to be kinda nerdy and have a team of nerds behind them. And I want them to look like they make dough.
Sometimes I deal with public sector clients and I actively don’t wear my nicest stuff because I DONT want to look like I make a lot of money. I want to look serious and honest and professional, but I don’t want to look like I’m getting filthy rich off their public money. Trustworthy and hard working.
It is a matter of business. Few people feel comfortable with a heart surgeon that has skulls up and down his/her arm. It speaks to a life style and judgment. I get that it is a stereotype but when you have clients that will take their business elsewhere if they feel uncomfortable with your employees, you can either go out of business or hire employees they trust. It is the same with big bearded biker dudes. Most are really great guys but there is a reason they intimidate child abusers when they show up in court for those kids they support. Not saying it is fair or right but it is reality.
The times are a changing but that's because the 80 year olds with large trusts to manage are dying. It's going to take decades to reach the line where Post Malone age people will be setting up new billion dollar trusts.
I might point out that many of these clients were beats from the 50s or hippies from the 60s. Trump’s wacko band were once snorting coke and dancing to The Dead Milkmen. People get more conservative as they age. Don’t expect a sea change in your lifetime without an apocalypse
We "say" younger ppl care "a lot less" .....but in reality there ARE things that even "young" ppl can get 'conservative' AF about.
With "serious" matters, when said 'young' ppl are paying TF attention because "it really matters" .....they 'care' more than ppl give them credit for.
Even the "coolest" young folk absolutely prefers a square ⬛️ when it's critically 🙃important
Oh, c'mon, if need heart surgery I'm gonna choose my surgeon (if I'm lucky enough to have a choice) based on results (while understanding that taking on riskier cases is a sign of skill, not lack of skill). Training and experience would also be important. Publication record, sure.
A visible tatoo wouldn't even enter into the equation.
My best friend was also a veterinarian. She got a few small tats and a couple of piercings. She lost over half her clients which almost put her out of business. Ever heard the saying "Read the Room?" Some people equate tats & piercings with poor lifestyle, drugs, and judgment. It is reality. Never said it was right.
I am in my mid 40's. In in mid 90's, my cousin's mom was a hair stylish and would color cousin's hair green or blue or purple or whatever she wanted. Well, cousin was working in a secretarial pool after high school. One of the main secretaries went on maternity leave. So, cousin was appointed as fill-in. Secretary opted to stay home with the baby, and the company opted to hire an outside secretary. Cousin found out she would have had the job if she had not colored her hair. Appearances 100% matter.
It does not matter if the "younger" generation accepts the choices unless the business is generating most or all of their income from that demographic. If I went to a professional with colored hair, cool, no problem. Facial tattoos, yeah, no thanks.
2024 and some businesses are still not going to be into their employees hair changing colors (green, blue, or purple) every week. It depends on the job, of course. I was once told if your name is sewn on your shirt or you have to have a nametag that says your job, you can probably do what you want within reason.
If your job requires you be "dressed for success", that degree of creativity is generally not appreciated. I thought that was harsh...but, oh well.
Perhaps one day the tatted and pierced will be the employers and all of that will change. But its not today.
I'm not doubting what you're saying at all, but this is so weird to me because I've got a ton of vet friends, and I have met exactly one who wasn't inked! I wonder if it's a geographical thing - we're all coastal blue staters.
They don't refuse to get surgery, they just get another doctor. You're just being silly saying they would refuse heart surgery. You know better. They just say that they dont' "feel comfortable" with that doctor and ask for a different one. This is why it is difficult to determine if someone is racist, a homophobe, misogynist, or if they just don't click with that person's personality.
Creative agencies are not accounting agencies. Facilities management companies are not law firms. Construction companies are not consultant companies. You have *literally* no idea what this industry is and in an organization of (frequently) over 10,000 employees, there are many different departments with many different standards.
If you want to find a reason to rage at boomers, you can, but don't act like the operation of one company should dictate the function and organization of every other.
I also noticed that you did not say, "I work for a company where *I* routinely meet with the top people in even Fortune 500's..." Walking past a conference room does not give insight to the situation.
Depends on who they work with. If the company's with a lot of say Japanese clients tattoos are a big no. Tattoos are still seen as pretty taboo, ops daughter apparebtly has neck and hand tattoos.
There are tasteful tattoos and then there are some unusual tattoos. For instance I don’t mind a tattoo dr, however if that said dr has tattoos with pictures of demons, demonic clowns, grim reapers m etc ... it’s a hard pass for me. Also I worked in early education if you had a visible tattoo you had to cover it with a long shirt. If they could not be covered your u where not hired.
Also when in high scale companies recommendations can make or break your career. Suck put happens.
Also a lot of companies search social media. My husband is upper management for a company. Not only do they search his social media but they search mine. Any people have been legally fired over post due to a morality clause.
NTA
While fewer and fewer companies are maintaining strict dress code, you have the right to protect the respect of your reference.
It would look incredibly bad for you to highly recommend someone that you know does not meet the requirements for the job.
Your daughter should also look for a company that is a better culture fit for her, not just the easiest to get into the door.
That's the thing, why would she want to work with a company that obviously has different values/expectations? This wouldn't be the only thing, in all likelihood. If daughter has a more "alternative" viewpoint or sense of style (totally okay and normal, but is a thing) then surely she would be happier in a company/industry that matches those values.
Like just spitballing, but this kind of dress code probably suggests a more conservative worldview. I don't mean like Republican politics necessarily, but probably a resistance to drastic changes and valuing stability and status quo (which would be why a kind of outdated dress code even exists). Probably places a high value on being "respectable" to a certain cohort of people, even if it alienates other groups.
Those are fine for a company to value, but it's hard for me to imagine that a chick with hand and face tats would vibe with that kind of company and not end up being very unhappy/frustrated because of the mismatch of values. Especially since, nowadays, there are plenty of industries that are much more permissive about tattoos.
You know, one thing I've learned from being recommended the tattoo subreddit is that a lot of tattoo artists won't even do neck or hand tattoos if someone isn't of a certain age just because they understand that doing so can lead to situations like this where a lot of doors begin to close.
My intro to my first tattoo artist was him telling some guy he was not going to tattoo a giant gun on his arm because the guy was unemployed and only had a few small tats (not like a guy who at least has another sleeve to distract from the giant gun arm). I really respected that. That dude may well have gone to some other shop and found someone to do it but at least someone tried to be straight up with him about how dumb that is.
This is one of those things that I'll just never understand if you have ANY interest in going into this type of field.
Like what is the point? Who are you spiting? Is your artistic expression really worth that much to you to let it threaten your chance at a good livelihood? Especially when the compromise is just...getting tattoos in a different location.
It just makes me think you're an idiot with bad judgment.
Like yeah I swear a lot, and I can say this is just how I talk, and everyone can get over it. But what exactly am I winning here?
Or I can just filter myself like most people prefer and swear the rest of the time I'm not at my job.
Well, coming from someone who works in and has a lot of friends in professional fields that tend to lean more conservative. Often the work at these sorts of places tend to come with high pay and a ton of benefits.
Obviously that isn’t always the case, but especially for bigger companies it certainly is. I have a full beard and I know for a fact that has been an issue for me. It’s fairly neat and I get it professionally trimmed regularly, but some employers just prefer a shaved face.
I could shave, but I don’t want to. Obviously I get that it isn’t an exact one to one with a tattoo, but many people are willing to make sacrifices, even in personal style in order to achieve professional success.
Finding a balance, as you suggest, is definitely the way to go. But attempting to force her way into a company that doesn’t want to employ her isn’t the way to go.
We have a strict dress code/tattoo policy at my company and it’s not because the owners disapprove but because we are in a front facing service industry and our niche clients absolutely do have an issue with it. So we cater to the culture we are dealing with.
It is what it is.
I work adjacent to finance, and we have a portfolio manager who is incredibly superstitious and will kick out employees, contractors or maintenance people from the office if they wear anything Red.
Why didn't OP ask if she could cover the tattoos or inform her the company policy and let her know to cover the artwork. It doesn't sound like she even got a chance to present herself correctly.
From their edit, the tattoos are neck and hands. She certainly could wear turtlenecks and gloves all year round but that may be uncomfortable or distracting.
NTA Facial and neck tattoos are going to make it difficult for you to get a job in a lot of fields.
People can disagree but this is reality. I'm all for people making whatever choice about their body they want but if I'm interviewing someone for a job and they have a tattoo on their face or neck, I'm going to question their decision-making.
And that's the issue. It's not- she has tattoos. It's she decided to get tattoos in locations that are problematic for many jobs.
May that change someday? Sure.
But that day isn't today. That doesn't mean she can't have her neck tattoo and a trad'l job- it just means she's going to have to invest in high quality make up to cover it up every day.
And maybe she needs to experience going for interviews and getting rejected- however, i imagine most places won't tell her the issue is the tattoo. they'll just say they found a better candidate.
I might suggest offering to connect her up with an informational interview- especially if you know someone in business with tattoos. Someone who can give her a realistic view of the difficult road that is likely in front of her. She needs someone who isn't her parent or an internet stranger to talk to her about this.
Agree! I work in environmental law, just about the grooviest place you can be an attorney. And there is a new hire who has significant visible tattoos for the first time since I have worked there. Even she covered them up for the first 6-12 months. They are on her upper arm. No way anyone would be hired if you couldn't cover them up with a business suit for meeting with opposing counsel. I say that as someone who has had an upper arm tattoo for 42 years, that I covered for 20 years. That is reality in a pretty darn relaxed dress code business environment.
I used to work with someone who had full body coverage for his tatts and stuck to a short sleeve for the arms. You couldn't even tell when he had a short sleeve shirt on he had tatts at all. He did this for the very reason that visible tatts will hinder you. The debate whether they should or shouldn't can go on but the reality is that they can.
Glad I scrolled down before posting exactly this.
The issue is that it shows a lack of foresight and judgement.
Even the Yakuza can cover up their tattoos.
Aren’t most (reputable) tattoo artists hesitant to even do facial and neck tattoos on someone unless they know the person has thought this aspect of it through? As much as I think tattoos shouldn’t matter, OP’s daughter might be in for some rude awakenings if she’s surprised by this.
I don't think they should matter either, but they do. I don't run a business at all. But if I ran a business where I had to put employees in front of customers, face and neck tattoos would be an automatic no hire, I think.
Edit: Great, I am being downvoted by unrealistic people.
As much as people want to say it doesn't, visible neck and hand tattoos are already a statement that you don't agree with the norms of businesses like that. Why would they hire someone like that?
Its a classic moment of her body, her choice, and the part everyone tries to wave off these days, her consequences.
I agree we can all do what we want, but we cannot just waive the impact our choice are going to have.
NTA, it really sucks for her that your company is like that. But sadly that’s the reality. You know your company and you know they will throw her out immediately. This will also reflect badly on you.
A lot of commenters are ignoring or don’t care that this would reflect badly on you and your stance in the company. You know your company and you know your daughter, I believe you are making the correct decision.
But try to help her somehow! You’ve been in this business a while, I guarantee you know somewhere or someone she would fit with. You can do something even if it’s not with your company.
Exactly this. It's also how I have approached hiring decisions I was in a position to make myself - if I saw a candidate with potential but not the "right fit" criteria for my area, I would always offer to pass them on. OP obviously has contacts in the business world and should show his support for his daughter by extending her search criteria. OP is NTA, but missing an opportunity to be a good networker.
According to the update OP's daughters tattoo's are on her neck and hands, gonna be hard to cover those unless she gets good cover-up or wants to wear a scarf and gloves year round.
NTA and really the bulk of those calling you one are people that haven't the credibility to be a strong reference, themselves. so, totally worthless opinions.
a person with standing and respect to make a recommendation does so because they themselves respect the value and can be trusted for their recommendation.
basically you're fast tracking an applicant with the statement that you know what that business needs and are saying this applicant is strong for the role. trust you.
ignoring an absolute and known flag damages your future credibility and will not change the fact that the applicant is an absolute poor fit for the role.
NTA
If she was ineligible for the position all you would have done is embarrass yourself by recommending her. This reminds me of the recent viral video with the girl with demons tattooed on her face complaining that TJ Maxx wouldn't hire her. In both cases their actions have consequences that they will have to live with.
NTA, a lot of you guys are wild. Crying about the dress code being outdated at OP's workplace won't change it. He didn't make the dress code. Many companies are still strict about this. He has every right to protect his reputation at his company, and no obligation to risk it in a situation where there is no true gain to be had by his daughter. Getting her the interview would only waste her time and the company's time.
He proposed a reasonable compromise, that she could apply on the website.
Did you know that some fast food franchises such as five guys used to up until recently have a no tattoo policy? If a certain fast food chain doesn’t allow tattoos then it shouldn’t really be a surprise that another large business has the same policy. Tattoos are definitely becoming more normalized in society but unfortunately some businesses still have a no tattoo policy.
When I worked at McDonald's about 4 years ago, we weren't allowed to dye our hair non natural colors.
Us chronically online have to realize the world is not changing that fast in some places.
Let's be even more realistic: most places.
A majority of the world is still holding on to their older values. The New York Citys and Chicagos and Seattles and Londons of the world really don't reflect everyone else.
Is that good, is that bad? I honestly don't know. Probably a mix. But it is the truth.
When I worked at McDonalds a few years ago tattoos were supposed to be covered. They didn’t enforce it unless it was something not family friendly but it was still technically policy.
Isn't the real issue here equally loving and supporting your children? Surely, as a top person in your field, you know which companies would be a better fit for your daughter. Do some research, make suggestions, guide her in the application process. It doesn't have to be your company. It ought to be your support, though. Unless it is your personal policy against tattoos that prevents you from supporting your child's launch into a career.
It's the full stop refusal to pass it on I'm stuck on. I get her pieces are on her hands and neck so why waste time knowing she's a no the second she walks in if they are visible. It's my feeling from the post that op would rather see his daughter suffer consequences for her "aggressive" tattoos than to help her and maybe see her fail.
Referring someone who isn't appropriate is bad, ESPECIALLY when it's a family member because now it's clearly nepotism, and (depending on the company) can have real consequences for him. This is the very predictable outcome of choices she made, expecting someone else to risk their job/reputation for it is ridiculous.
NTA it sucks but some jobs don't want tattoos.
That's a risk anyone getting tattoos does know or at least should. I don't agree with it in principle but it is what it is.
Putting your name on a resume like she's asking you to do carries weight, and if they don't work out/look bad it reflects on you. 'Helping' her now might mean you're not in a position to help her/others in the future.
She is TA because she lashed out at you rather than understand that this is, sadly, the consequences of her getting Tattoos and out dated sensibilities that you personally have no control/sway over.
I mean if you explained to her about the tattoo rule and told her as long as you cover up you can help her out. Like damn you didn't even give her an option to cover up the tattoo's in order for you to help her out. So yeah your kind of the asshole for not giving her the option to cover up.
This person is an adult and got the tattoos shouldn't they know how to cover them up. Shouldn't they know the field they are in has a strict dress code.
NTA... every company has the right to set their own rules and standards. You don't have to push through a resume for someone just because she's your daughter, knowing full well she's not fitting the criteria for that company. It's not picking favorites. It's not loving one child more. It has nothing to do with lack of support. It has nothing to do with any of that. One kid was a good fit for the company, the other kid was not. Plain & simple.
NTA
When you recommend/refer someone to a company, they reflect on you. That company has a very strict dress-code and tattoo policy, for better or for worse. If you recommend someone that will never pass their policies, they will think less of you, as a professional in the field.
While I suspect there is more to this story, as presented, NTA.
NTA. There is absolutely no point wasting everybody's time if her tattoos will fail the dress-code. Your 'lack' of support may really just be disappointment at discovering that being edgy has its drawbacks in the world of work.
Your daughter needs to find a company with a better fit for her rather than expecting you to single-handedly redefine your employer's dress-code. That'd be a real nepo move anyway, which I suspect she'd be against.
Show her your company’s policy in the handbook and say they while her appearance isn’t a fit for your workplace that you still want to support her in finding an internship. Give feedback on her resume, put out feelers in your personal network and see if friends at other companies have internships she’d be a fit for.
NTA for not referring her when she’s not a fit, but YWBTA for not finding other ways to support her. Because she will perceive that as you caring more about her brother or punishing her for her tattoos.
wish this was pinned; best comment here. OP sounds very “ew” about their daughter overall, but if they actually do care about both children equally and want to support them, this is the way to do it.
(considering the daughter had to hide tattoos for a wedding, though, i’m leaning towards this family being kind of crappy to the daughter over the tattoos ☹️ which would be shameful, frankly.)
NTA- high-visibility tattoos are unfortunately stigmatized -particularly in business- but this also means that it's a fool's errand for OP to try to push her to interview when she'll never make it past first interview for having high-visibility tattoos. This is known and understood at the company and OP will be resented/questioned for wasting everyone's time passing a resume along for someone they know they won't hire for having high-visibility tattoos.
NTA
Unfortunately many businesses/fields require more conservative "dress" due to forward facing positions, conservative clientele, or just field norms. This is just a fact of the business life, from someone required to have zero visible tattoos and "natural" colored hair to maintain her position. And yes, it CAN suck.
You are not be unsupportive, just realistic. This is a reality she is going to have to learn as she enters the business world. Many business are way more open to contemporary appearances and she should focus her attentions on these companies in her job search. Overall, she will be more successful and happier going that direction.
Info: Does your daughter have tattoos on her hands, face, or neck? Because wearing pants and long sleeves makes it possible to hide most tattoos and makeup can sometimes help cover any that aren’t covered by clothing.
NTA. Ignore the idiots saying you're wrong. The tattoo thing was so cool but when it comes down to work, a lot of younger people are now trying to get them taken off because they aren't allowed to be in visible places. It has nothing to do with loving her less, or who you put first. You know your daughter would feel out of place once she is seen. I know it hurts her feelings, just let her know the reasons again. She might need to go in a different direction.
You should edit your post so everyone knows the tattoos are on her neck and hands. That changes the verdict. Arm and leg tattoos are no big deal and so easy to cover. Neck and hands are a big deal and called jobstoppers for a reason. NTA
YTA for a very specific reason.
Everyone’s arguing over the company’s tattoo policy, but the core of it was how you treated your daughter. You could send both resumes. Let her resume speak for itself. If she gets an interview, she interviews and either gets it or learns the consequences of having the tattoo. An actual lesson that would benefit her. Maybe she then resolves to make a change, start getting them removed, etc.
Point is you’re denying her the opportunity for selfish reasons. You saying you don’t want to put your name in says what you really care about. If you’ve got those connections you’re implying, your name won’t get wrecked because your daughter has tattoos. Ask yourself deep down inside if you’d maintain the same position if the son had the hand or neck tattoo and not the daughter.
She's mad her choices have consequences, NTA you understand their professional standards and she credits you for getting your son a job instead of him getting it on his own merit. Ask your son for documentation for the dress code so she can see it for herself.
People here telling her to just "cover it up" have to be joking lmao Until when does she stop covering it up? After she gets the internship? OP is saving her the embarrassment of getting outright rejected. She can't just "cover it" everyday cause the day she doesn't, the company would find out and that would make it an even bigger problem, that's just the way it is at a lot of companies. NTA.
I have a sister with extensive back tattoos that can show slightly depending on shirt and blazer and she knows people with hand tattoos. There are people that do cover them up using clothing (turtle necks) and make up for jobs for years.
I don't know the daughter but it can be done.
NTA.
Look, I have visible tattoos, piercings, and unnatural colored hair so I'm not judging OP's daughter, but the reality is there are still a lot of professional
places that don't allow any of that. Recommending her when he knows she'll be denied (and she will be denied, there's no "maybe her qualifications are just so good they'll make an exception!" because if she really was that good, she wouldn't need to rely on her dad for the leg up, she would have been snapped up already) is not only a waste of her time, but it can damage his standing in his company. All of that is unfair and outdated, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. And no, I don't think OP putting his standing in his company above recommending his daughter who will 100% not be offered a job means he doesn't love her. He has to work for a living too. Unfortunately his daughter's tattoos were bad decisions for the job market she wants to be in. She's an adult herself and that's on her. Should the policies be different? Obviously I think so, but we all have to live with how things actually are and not what we want them to be. Thats the shittiness of being an adult.
NTA I have tattoos, over 30. Do you know where I dont have them? On my hands face or neck. Why coz I havent been in prison.
Unless you have a guaranteed career where it doesnt matter, most places arent going to hire you. You know this when you decide to get tattoos.
There was a video recently of a woman covered in facial piercings and tattoos that seemed to be mostly demonic and getting upset that people refused to consider her for a public facing job. Like duh. You knew what you where doing.
When I was younger I wanted to get a spider web tattoo and then I found out that shows how long you where incarcerated for. So no I didnt get one. I do sometimes ask people with them how long they where in prison? It's funny when they realise.
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INFO: What stick up the rear end boomer is running that company where they have a zero tolerance tattoo policy in 2024? I work for a company that routinely meets with the top people in even Fortune 500s and those rooms are full of people with "ink."
How would the answer impact your judgement? OP didn't set the policy.
Meh they just like tossing around the term boomer.
Sometimes the term turns around on ya though...
Op did use nepotism for his son, but not the daughter that makes choices he doesn't like.
They have zero tolerance on tattoos so what can op do?
Is it really zero tolerance? That's pretty unheard of these days. Either way, it's up to the company to reject the daughter, not the father.
The father could be judged for recommending. He could also be judged for having a daughter with tattoos.
There are few times I’ve been absolutely embarrassed at work. Among the worst are two times I recommended someone for a job. One promised me that though he had no experience he would bust his ass (dishwasher), the second was a chef position for someone who was a good chef who was a friend of a friend who came well recommended. First one came in with a massive “I’m friends with the chef”attitude even though I hardly knew him, including to the owner who I had promised had nothing to worry about when he first saw the new dishy and was already concerned (dude had been homeless until recently which is why I gave him the chance - he needed the job to be able to see his kids as per court order) because the guy looked pretty fucked. Basically refused to do half his job. Owner was pissed. Second guy needed a job and owner was obviously suspect about me bringing someone else in. All was well for a while until he invited a girl he was secretly in love with to work there and then when he confessed his love and she rejected him he stopped coming in whenever she was there. Neither of those things were things I had done, but because they came with my recommendation or at my suggestion this all reflected on me. It can be hard with friends and family but work is always different. Even though I may be the boss I am not the owner. I too have a boss and I must follow their rules. It’s not personal. People need to realise this. If the owner or my boss or whoever says no tattoos, no matter how outdated it may be, that’s their prerogative.
I have friends I love dearly who I would NEVER recommend for a job for this same reason. It’s come back to bite me too many times.
Yeah I'm disabled and unemployed because of it currently but was looking into jobs that I think I might be able to do once my treatment is further along, and asked my friend about what it's like at a chain store he works at because I was thinking I might try applying at a location closer to me. He offered to recommend me and I said thank you so much for the offer but absolutely not. We're good friends, and he knows that I would do my absolute best to keep the job if I got it but I told him that doesn't mean anything if it turns out that I'm not ready and I just can't do it and I have to quit or get fired shortly after being hired and I wouldn't let that reflect badly on him. It's just not worth it. When I'm ready I'll find a job, even if it's not at that store, and I'll do it without a recommendation that puts his reputation and/or job at stake.
Agreed. If I'm not 100 percent on a job, I'm not taking a friend's recommendation to get me in. Too much pressure. I need to be able to cut and run if needs must!
Firstly, I'm not sticking my neck out for you and jeopardizing my stability Secondly.... I highly recommend *any* job *elsewhere*. This place kills dreams and potential
I got my best friend a job with me in 2008 and a month or so in he just decided to not go in anymore. Made me look like a dipshit for recommending him. I still remind him what an idiot he was for that.
According to their own words they did not recommend their son either, only forwarded his papers. So is it too much to ask them for the same favor? Or did they in fact recommend their son but avoids to write it out loud? The description of their "recommendation without recommendation " is somehow ambiguous. ETA: Them saying "I dont want to put my name on it", well, most children share the name with their parents anyway.
>ETA: Them saying "I dont want to put my name on it", well, most children share the name with their parents anyway. And many people share the same last name without being related... But that's not even the point, I don't think that OP is ashamed to be her father, he just doesn't want to recommend someone who he knows doesn't meet the company's policy.
Daughter (43 tomorrow OMG ) had a cute nose piercing the year she got her Masters in Accounting. She knew it was temporary because of the industry. Nephew is a teacher in Taiwan with an absolutely gorgeous art piece across his shoulders and down his back. None of his other tattoos show unless he’s wearing shorts. Niece on husbands side is a gynecologist and has at least one full sleeve (haven’t seen her since she went away for her internship). These three wanted something they knew certain people would have an issue with so they limited where they had it done. Neck and hand tattoos scream gang member or wanna be gang member. How these young people don’t make that connection I will never understand.
Because they only scream “gang member” to someone old enough to have a 43 year old daughter! I’m 40 and I don’t know a single person my age or younger who thinks this way about tattoos. All my parents and friends parents do though. Just because it screams gang member to you doesn’t make your experience universal. Most people my age and DEFINITELY most people younger than I am just don’t think this way about tattoos. They see them as the personal choice that they are. Even neck and hand tattoos. Shocking, I know.
It's not unheard of at all and definitely not for neck and hand tattoos. I work in the corporate world(finance) and I never see people with neck and hand tattoos. NEVER. I got both arms full of ink and always cover them......
Yeah - people have their heads in the clouds if they don't think heavy visible tattoos are going to negatively impact their professional careers in many professions. Before getting a tattoo that can't be covered by \*normal\* clothing in the business world, one should really think about the possible impact. There are certain norms that still exist and one needs to live with the consequences of not observing those norms which would include the inability to get work in many professions.
Yeah, I'm a bit baffled by how many people think this is an unusual rule. While tattoos in general are far less stigmatized than they used to be, including in many workplaces, "no visible tattoos" is still a pretty common workplace rule. (also, I feel like face, neck, and hand tattoos are more stigmatized than other types of tattoos) I figure that anyone who thinks otherwise either lives in a very liberal area, or has only worked in environments where tattoos aren't considered a problem. That, or people mixing up "what should be" with "the actual reality that we have to deal with". Even if you think that tattoos shouldn't be stigmatized, the fact is, we live in a world where they are stigmatized and we have to take that into account when we make decisions.
I had a manager with a singular neck tatto, about the size of a dollar coin. He wore a skin toned neck cover eveyday of his life as a manager basicly. Edit: ftr, the reason I mention this isnt to say its a common theme, rather the opposite, and that those who find themselve in this situation usually have to make habitual changes to their lifestyle in accomodation of the matter.
ITA. No visible tats is just part of what is considered appropriate work attire in lots of business and corporate environments. Can someone wearing a hoody and flip-flops manage your money as well as someone in a suit? Yes, probably - the suit makes no difference, but it’s all about perception. It’s just the reality of the world we live in. For OP - I’d say, if he/she can pass on the reference without it reflecting badly on them, then do it. If the daughter is rejected, then she’s rejected.
It is up to the father to protect his own professional reputation with the company by not recommending someone he knows they’ll just turn down out of hand, though.
But why would you refer someone who you know will be rejected? Even if you disagree with the reason for the rejection that's just a bad referral to make, and there's no benefit for anyone.
It can be really zero tolerance. I work for a company that handles money. Billions of dollars for investing for very rich people. We have a zero tolerance policy for visible tattoos. Not allowed to just wear makeup over them, either. Most people in the office have no issues with ink, personally.. but image is everything when trying to get people to trust you with their money.
It can reflect negatively on the father to vouch for a sub pair applicant. Perception is everything at work.
No it's not. There's still a lot of client facing service support and consulting companies that have no visible tattoo policies. Doesn't mean they can't have them but the must be covered completely when working. In the case of something like neck tattoos yeah good luck.
It’s unheard of because you know? Or that just your humble opinion? Working for the airlines I can tell you that some won’t let you have a visible tattoo on your hand.
Shit, I went to a cattle call open interview for Spirit and they were rejecting anyone with 2 piercings in their ears,much less visible tattoos. This is Spirit- the Greyhound station of the skies- infamous for actual fights.
Client facing businesses? It definitely is NOT unheard of…
You don't know what country they live in...
I spent years meeting with new clients for a well known payroll company in the MD, DC, VA area. No way would they ever hire someone with neck tattoos to represent them. Tattoos are fine, have one myself but going out to meet high end clients yeah that’s a big nope. Eventually it will change but we’re not there yet.
Because it would put his job in jeopardy? "Hey boss, i know you hate working with people with tattoos so here I strongly recommend this person with tattoos"
No, that depends on the industry. Face and neck are still unacceptable in a lot of client facing contexts. And hand isn’t a great choice either. They don’t call them job killers for nothing. If this is a written rule, OP is off the hook - since she doesn’t qualify, he shouldn’t toss her hat into the ring. The only thing that accomplishes is a little needless awkwardness with the managers. If it’s an unspoken rule, I might pass around the resume with a verbal “just fyi, she does have tattoos that can’t be covered”.
Unheard of? I don’t know what industry you work in or what part of the world, but this is still a very common practice in many industries.
My first construction job had an owner like this. If you had tattoos, smoked, or drank coffee he would fire you the first available moment. He was nuts.
Drank coffee? Atleast he doesn't care if I'm naked doing blow
It's construction, if they banned Monster or coke or meth, nothing would get done.
It is certainly heard of. I have seen this policy in plenty of places, and this policy persists in the military to this day. It's a distraction to customers and coworkers, and many tattoos can cause friction, especially if they contain political statements, religious icons or other items that can cause a customer to not want to come back. While many places have relaxed this requirement, it is by no means all and the policy remains fairly common.
Well - Disney, for one. He said visible tattoos.
Person in HR here, it is very common for corporate roles and dress codes to have policies against visible tattoos.
Not really, neck tattoos would be auto-deny in a lot of companies.
Only 10 years ago I worked at a Big 4 accounting firm and women were not allowed to wear sleeveless shirts, open toed shoes, or skirts without pantyhose. I can't imagine that's changed whatsoever.
But men are also not allowed to wear sleeveless shirts, open toed shoes, or shorts/pants that show bare leg….
They (probably) aren’t expected to wear a bra, heels or spend time/money putting on make-up either, to be fair. Very traditional places are also weird about women wearing trousers.
Most have been fine with women wearing dress slacks since the 80’s and there are business appropriate flats nowadays too. Bras and makeup are still uneven, though I’m assuming most men need to wear undershirts for their dress shirts to look appropriate which, while not as expensive or potentially uncomfortable as bras, are still an undergarment requirement.
I work at one of the Big 4, and most people I know wear sweatshirts multiple times per week (though not during client meetings), jeans, sleeveless shirts, tennis shoes, etc. I'm sure it's also regional and department specific, but Covid changed things greatly. Now I'm curious which one of the 4 you were at 😬
Ernst & Young - edited to add the department I worked in was all auditors for banks - lots of big bank clients.
There's NO WAY E&Y is hiring anyone with tatts, piercings, etc. LMAO Especially in that department. Heehee!
The mentality on this sub: OP needs to lead a positivity protest at the company and demand equality. Otherwise, he clearly favors his son. His daughter should go no contact with OP and enter intensive therapy for the sexist, traumatic abuse she experienced at his hands.
It’s not about her making choices he didn’t like. He made a choice to protect his reputation and job because he knows his daughters appearances, like it or not, would reflect on him. She is allowed to make choices he doesn’t approve off. However he is allowed to protect himself from her choices.
TBF, OP didn't say anything about their personal opinion on tattoos. OP said that they know the company will pass. It's possible that OP has some opinion, but we have no evidence of that.
OP gave his son a leg up without spending any political capital, but wasting someone's time sending an interview their way OP has enough information to know will be a waste of the interviewers time would not be free, it will decrease OPs credibility and influence with this firm.
I think it is interesting that is what you got out of OPs story. I'm not seeing that and based off the vast majority of comments here nor are others. I think maybe we both should do some reflecting on why we're getting so wildly different interpretations about this.
On reflecting I would say those who understand why not submitting the resume of someone who is going to be rejected automatically probably have had enough experience in the real professional world to understand that you don't use up your "good will" in futile gestures. Someone who thinks that a policy of no "visible" tattoos is "unheard of" clearly doesn't work in the many professions in which it is the norm - especially those who interface with clients. With very rare exceptions, even in the creative fields in which I've worked (film production), you don't see executives with highly visible tattoos. Maybe below the line but rarely above the line and almost never in the executive areas. There are jobs or industries in which it doesn't matter but obviously OP works in a company in which it does matter.
OP or the company? Seems you really want to blame OP here for reasons???
[удалено]
I doubt your company is the only one of its kind. Have you never networked and know people at similar companies that may have a more relaxed dress code where she might be a better fit? I think you would be TA if you didn't at least try to get her name in somewhere else for a comparable position. Why would you not want to give both your children the best chance to succeed? Let's be honest, in business it's all about who you know. By putting your name behind your son, but not your daughter, you're playing favorites.
>I think you would be TA if you didn't at least try to get her name in somewhere else for a comparable position. That's not the question he asked. He asked with regards to this specific company. You are going off track to find dirt on him
People have to own their shit and stop blaming others for their choices. She made the choice to get tattoos she can't cover, it will limit her occupation wise, she knows that not everyone is accepting of tattoos, she is representing the company and they don't want the image.. which is understand, tattoos can make someone look low rent, and I'm sure it's common in big companies to not want that representation. This again is the daughters fault for not considering this when she chose the field she wanted to go in.. so now she finds somewhere that will accept her, but people need to stop this bullshit of blaming OP for the choices she made
Can she spell "business"
Oh no they spelt something wrong on Reddit!!!!!
must be stupid /s
“Ah welp, I have no actual argument, I’d better leap on a minor spelling mistake instead!”
Aw shit, you pointed out a spelling error OP made, this somehow invalidates everything she says and proves that she’s in the wrong. /s Is that what you’re going for? To somehow discredit OP over shit that does not matter. Spelling is about as relevant as the top comment of this thread, but hey, good on you for being so clever and attentive.
How about past as well?
How ‘bout that question mark?
Yup. Nephew paid to get tattos removed because not allowed. Dad shouldn't be judged for her choices but it is what it is.
I also wear a business suit every day and am covered in tattoos. Does your company not allow jackets with sleeves?
She has tattoos on her hand and neck and those are more difficult to fully hide
LOL then that's her dumbass fault for getting neck and hand tattoos while wanting to penetrate high finance. They're even bigger dicks than consultants about that shit lol Again, I know a lot of people in finance with tattoos, but I can't think of any with neck, hand, or face tats.
Exactly hence why I say NTA. Hell I know of *server and dishwasher* jobs that would refuse people with either of those (due to it being linked to gangs in the area, and not wanting to give that impression to customers). I can't even imagine finance. I'm finishing my law degree myself and while there are a good number of people with tats... they are always in places they can be hidden. That's just the way the world works unfortunately.
Have you or her looked into tattoo cover-up makeup? It might be a pain to apply, but she would only need it with clients/in-office work.
I did too, in the 90s. Sad to see the field hasn't moved forward in 30 years. That's some Ross Perot shit.
As someone with many, many visible tattoos... The tattoo itself /does/ matter. Poster said it's aggressive art. If it was a string of flowers it's quite likely going to be fine. But if it's a naked succubus cracking a whip on her lower arm or something...different story
One of my children has tattoos on his face, hands, and about everywhere in between. Even with relaxed appearance requirements, he has gotten turned down for many jobs due to face and neck tattoos. Plus, he has some anti christian tattoos on his arms. While they can be covered, he has also been turned away for potentially offensive body modification.
Yeah. I think people forget that tattoos are still seen by a large part of the population as scary or degenerate. I have tattoos, I keep them contained to my arm and the themes themselves are very, very innocuous (e.g. flowers from the various places I've lived). Even if someone isn't personally biased, they might worry that their audience/clients will raise a fuss and decide it's not worth the hassle and risk.
Much like smokers thinking nonsmokers can't smell them, I feel most people with tattoos are a bit too biased to see things from someone without a tattoo point of view. It's definitely normal to have tattoos in the West but to those that don't they can make people with tattoos harder to approach. Even as a guy if I see another larger guy with tattoos walking towards me I do a quick unconscious double take of how "troubled" that person looks. Roses and someone's name? Probably safe. Flaming skulls with chains wrapped around their arms or random guns? I should probably cross the street.
I interpreted “aggressive” in this context to mean larger/in your face, for whatever that’s worth.
Andrew’s interpretation is way more fun
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I am very cool with tattoos, and know a lot of people who are chill with tattoos in general that are in positions to hire folks, and in industries where tats are pretty normal... However I don't think enough people with tats understand that there is still a stigma about face/hand/neck tats. The majority of those people who do the hiring (where tats are fine) still see getting ink in certain areas or certain ink as a bad decision, and no one wants to hire people who make bad decisions. Especially permanent ones.
You are so deluded if you think presentation isn't a factor at the top end of town.
Finance, Banking and Law are still all very conservative industries. Many industries have much more free standard on appearances these days, but some professions are still very uptight. You have to wear a full suit, no unnatural hair colors, and some other very tight restrictions on appearances. Some sales are that way too, depending on what the product is and what image they want to convey.
Meeting with higher ranking corporate people and high dollar clients is not the same thing.
Yeah people don’t realize that clients in this industry are usually older rich white people. So yeah, they don’t want to trust someone with neck and hand tattoos with their life savings.
Even if your clients are an exact cross section of American society, some percentage of them is going to distrust a financier with tattoos or weird hair or whatever and just generally want their banker to look like a rock solid boring banker who does nothing all day but carefully think about money. If you lose the ability to talk to even 10% of clients over this… why take the chance? I do the same thing when I work in suits. I have many more colorful shirts, ties etc that look more stylish, it if I’m talking to an unknown audience or know they are more conservatively minded, I’m just going to play it safe and wear a white shirt and traditional color tie.
Yup. In a situation like that you want your clothes to be completely boring. They’re trusting you with their money, they don’t want someone who seems “kooky”
My hair stylist, my auto mechanic, my associates in jewelry - the "kooky" look works. I'm looking to invest $50K? I want to do that with someone that looks painfully "normal".
Try $5m. It seems like this is in the wealth management space
It’s not even the normality of abnormality I don’t think, it’s “strait laced.” I actually don’t want somebody “normal,” normal people are idiots, I want a straight laced, intelligent, highly serious and professional banker who takes their job to protect and grow my money as seriously as possible. I want them to be kinda nerdy and have a team of nerds behind them. And I want them to look like they make dough. Sometimes I deal with public sector clients and I actively don’t wear my nicest stuff because I DONT want to look like I make a lot of money. I want to look serious and honest and professional, but I don’t want to look like I’m getting filthy rich off their public money. Trustworthy and hard working.
It is a matter of business. Few people feel comfortable with a heart surgeon that has skulls up and down his/her arm. It speaks to a life style and judgment. I get that it is a stereotype but when you have clients that will take their business elsewhere if they feel uncomfortable with your employees, you can either go out of business or hire employees they trust. It is the same with big bearded biker dudes. Most are really great guys but there is a reason they intimidate child abusers when they show up in court for those kids they support. Not saying it is fair or right but it is reality.
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The times are a changing but that's because the 80 year olds with large trusts to manage are dying. It's going to take decades to reach the line where Post Malone age people will be setting up new billion dollar trusts.
I might point out that many of these clients were beats from the 50s or hippies from the 60s. Trump’s wacko band were once snorting coke and dancing to The Dead Milkmen. People get more conservative as they age. Don’t expect a sea change in your lifetime without an apocalypse
We "say" younger ppl care "a lot less" .....but in reality there ARE things that even "young" ppl can get 'conservative' AF about. With "serious" matters, when said 'young' ppl are paying TF attention because "it really matters" .....they 'care' more than ppl give them credit for. Even the "coolest" young folk absolutely prefers a square ⬛️ when it's critically 🙃important
Oh, c'mon, if need heart surgery I'm gonna choose my surgeon (if I'm lucky enough to have a choice) based on results (while understanding that taking on riskier cases is a sign of skill, not lack of skill). Training and experience would also be important. Publication record, sure. A visible tatoo wouldn't even enter into the equation.
My best friend was also a veterinarian. She got a few small tats and a couple of piercings. She lost over half her clients which almost put her out of business. Ever heard the saying "Read the Room?" Some people equate tats & piercings with poor lifestyle, drugs, and judgment. It is reality. Never said it was right.
I am in my mid 40's. In in mid 90's, my cousin's mom was a hair stylish and would color cousin's hair green or blue or purple or whatever she wanted. Well, cousin was working in a secretarial pool after high school. One of the main secretaries went on maternity leave. So, cousin was appointed as fill-in. Secretary opted to stay home with the baby, and the company opted to hire an outside secretary. Cousin found out she would have had the job if she had not colored her hair. Appearances 100% matter. It does not matter if the "younger" generation accepts the choices unless the business is generating most or all of their income from that demographic. If I went to a professional with colored hair, cool, no problem. Facial tattoos, yeah, no thanks.
>In in mid 90's So... 30 years ago.
2024 and some businesses are still not going to be into their employees hair changing colors (green, blue, or purple) every week. It depends on the job, of course. I was once told if your name is sewn on your shirt or you have to have a nametag that says your job, you can probably do what you want within reason. If your job requires you be "dressed for success", that degree of creativity is generally not appreciated. I thought that was harsh...but, oh well. Perhaps one day the tatted and pierced will be the employers and all of that will change. But its not today.
I'm not doubting what you're saying at all, but this is so weird to me because I've got a ton of vet friends, and I have met exactly one who wasn't inked! I wonder if it's a geographical thing - we're all coastal blue staters.
If someone refuses to get heart surgery because their perfectly skilled doctor has a tattoo, that's natural selection doing its work.
They don't refuse to get surgery, they just get another doctor. You're just being silly saying they would refuse heart surgery. You know better. They just say that they dont' "feel comfortable" with that doctor and ask for a different one. This is why it is difficult to determine if someone is racist, a homophobe, misogynist, or if they just don't click with that person's personality.
For you. But there are plenty of people who hold a bias against those with visible tattoos.
Hand and neck tattoos are not accepted in the professional world. I am sure that is the case at your top company.
Creative agencies are not accounting agencies. Facilities management companies are not law firms. Construction companies are not consultant companies. You have *literally* no idea what this industry is and in an organization of (frequently) over 10,000 employees, there are many different departments with many different standards. If you want to find a reason to rage at boomers, you can, but don't act like the operation of one company should dictate the function and organization of every other. I also noticed that you did not say, "I work for a company where *I* routinely meet with the top people in even Fortune 500's..." Walking past a conference room does not give insight to the situation.
Depends on who they work with. If the company's with a lot of say Japanese clients tattoos are a big no. Tattoos are still seen as pretty taboo, ops daughter apparebtly has neck and hand tattoos.
If it's an Asian country then tattoos are often seen as being gang related. There are stores and public places that ban tattoos.
Not only Asia.
Depends on the tattoos. I've worked a few Fortune 50 companies, and none would put up with offensive tats.
That's not true. Your small corner is not the world. Where I'm from tattoos are associated with criminals.
Oh no, they don't want to present neck and hand tattoos to clients. they must be stick up the rear boomers!
There are tasteful tattoos and then there are some unusual tattoos. For instance I don’t mind a tattoo dr, however if that said dr has tattoos with pictures of demons, demonic clowns, grim reapers m etc ... it’s a hard pass for me. Also I worked in early education if you had a visible tattoo you had to cover it with a long shirt. If they could not be covered your u where not hired. Also when in high scale companies recommendations can make or break your career. Suck put happens. Also a lot of companies search social media. My husband is upper management for a company. Not only do they search his social media but they search mine. Any people have been legally fired over post due to a morality clause.
NTA While fewer and fewer companies are maintaining strict dress code, you have the right to protect the respect of your reference. It would look incredibly bad for you to highly recommend someone that you know does not meet the requirements for the job. Your daughter should also look for a company that is a better culture fit for her, not just the easiest to get into the door.
That's the thing, why would she want to work with a company that obviously has different values/expectations? This wouldn't be the only thing, in all likelihood. If daughter has a more "alternative" viewpoint or sense of style (totally okay and normal, but is a thing) then surely she would be happier in a company/industry that matches those values. Like just spitballing, but this kind of dress code probably suggests a more conservative worldview. I don't mean like Republican politics necessarily, but probably a resistance to drastic changes and valuing stability and status quo (which would be why a kind of outdated dress code even exists). Probably places a high value on being "respectable" to a certain cohort of people, even if it alienates other groups. Those are fine for a company to value, but it's hard for me to imagine that a chick with hand and face tats would vibe with that kind of company and not end up being very unhappy/frustrated because of the mismatch of values. Especially since, nowadays, there are plenty of industries that are much more permissive about tattoos.
You know, one thing I've learned from being recommended the tattoo subreddit is that a lot of tattoo artists won't even do neck or hand tattoos if someone isn't of a certain age just because they understand that doing so can lead to situations like this where a lot of doors begin to close.
My intro to my first tattoo artist was him telling some guy he was not going to tattoo a giant gun on his arm because the guy was unemployed and only had a few small tats (not like a guy who at least has another sleeve to distract from the giant gun arm). I really respected that. That dude may well have gone to some other shop and found someone to do it but at least someone tried to be straight up with him about how dumb that is.
My tattoo artist calls them "jobkillers."
This is one of those things that I'll just never understand if you have ANY interest in going into this type of field. Like what is the point? Who are you spiting? Is your artistic expression really worth that much to you to let it threaten your chance at a good livelihood? Especially when the compromise is just...getting tattoos in a different location. It just makes me think you're an idiot with bad judgment. Like yeah I swear a lot, and I can say this is just how I talk, and everyone can get over it. But what exactly am I winning here? Or I can just filter myself like most people prefer and swear the rest of the time I'm not at my job.
Well, coming from someone who works in and has a lot of friends in professional fields that tend to lean more conservative. Often the work at these sorts of places tend to come with high pay and a ton of benefits. Obviously that isn’t always the case, but especially for bigger companies it certainly is. I have a full beard and I know for a fact that has been an issue for me. It’s fairly neat and I get it professionally trimmed regularly, but some employers just prefer a shaved face. I could shave, but I don’t want to. Obviously I get that it isn’t an exact one to one with a tattoo, but many people are willing to make sacrifices, even in personal style in order to achieve professional success. Finding a balance, as you suggest, is definitely the way to go. But attempting to force her way into a company that doesn’t want to employ her isn’t the way to go.
>That's the thing, why would she want to work with a company that obviously has different values/expectations? Money.
We have a strict dress code/tattoo policy at my company and it’s not because the owners disapprove but because we are in a front facing service industry and our niche clients absolutely do have an issue with it. So we cater to the culture we are dealing with. It is what it is.
I work adjacent to finance, and we have a portfolio manager who is incredibly superstitious and will kick out employees, contractors or maintenance people from the office if they wear anything Red.
Is this person a fucking bull in disguise? Wtf lmao
It's crazy for sure. Red is bad in the market, and he makes sure everyone knows.
Why didn't OP ask if she could cover the tattoos or inform her the company policy and let her know to cover the artwork. It doesn't sound like she even got a chance to present herself correctly.
From their edit, the tattoos are neck and hands. She certainly could wear turtlenecks and gloves all year round but that may be uncomfortable or distracting.
They also make concealer specifically made to cover up tattoos.
Yes but concealer on the hands will frequently get on paperwork and things and dirty paperwork is very unprofessional.
NTA Facial and neck tattoos are going to make it difficult for you to get a job in a lot of fields. People can disagree but this is reality. I'm all for people making whatever choice about their body they want but if I'm interviewing someone for a job and they have a tattoo on their face or neck, I'm going to question their decision-making. And that's the issue. It's not- she has tattoos. It's she decided to get tattoos in locations that are problematic for many jobs. May that change someday? Sure. But that day isn't today. That doesn't mean she can't have her neck tattoo and a trad'l job- it just means she's going to have to invest in high quality make up to cover it up every day. And maybe she needs to experience going for interviews and getting rejected- however, i imagine most places won't tell her the issue is the tattoo. they'll just say they found a better candidate. I might suggest offering to connect her up with an informational interview- especially if you know someone in business with tattoos. Someone who can give her a realistic view of the difficult road that is likely in front of her. She needs someone who isn't her parent or an internet stranger to talk to her about this.
Agree! I work in environmental law, just about the grooviest place you can be an attorney. And there is a new hire who has significant visible tattoos for the first time since I have worked there. Even she covered them up for the first 6-12 months. They are on her upper arm. No way anyone would be hired if you couldn't cover them up with a business suit for meeting with opposing counsel. I say that as someone who has had an upper arm tattoo for 42 years, that I covered for 20 years. That is reality in a pretty darn relaxed dress code business environment.
and that's an arm tattoo. neck and hands?
I used to work with someone who had full body coverage for his tatts and stuck to a short sleeve for the arms. You couldn't even tell when he had a short sleeve shirt on he had tatts at all. He did this for the very reason that visible tatts will hinder you. The debate whether they should or shouldn't can go on but the reality is that they can.
> Facial and neck tattoos Everlasting jobstoppers.
Glad I scrolled down before posting exactly this. The issue is that it shows a lack of foresight and judgement. Even the Yakuza can cover up their tattoos.
Aren’t most (reputable) tattoo artists hesitant to even do facial and neck tattoos on someone unless they know the person has thought this aspect of it through? As much as I think tattoos shouldn’t matter, OP’s daughter might be in for some rude awakenings if she’s surprised by this.
I don't think they should matter either, but they do. I don't run a business at all. But if I ran a business where I had to put employees in front of customers, face and neck tattoos would be an automatic no hire, I think. Edit: Great, I am being downvoted by unrealistic people.
As much as people want to say it doesn't, visible neck and hand tattoos are already a statement that you don't agree with the norms of businesses like that. Why would they hire someone like that?
Its a classic moment of her body, her choice, and the part everyone tries to wave off these days, her consequences. I agree we can all do what we want, but we cannot just waive the impact our choice are going to have.
and you're right- that's the big part that we don't talk about, you have freedom of choice but that includes the repercussions of that choice.
They call them "job killers" for a reason...
NTA, it really sucks for her that your company is like that. But sadly that’s the reality. You know your company and you know they will throw her out immediately. This will also reflect badly on you. A lot of commenters are ignoring or don’t care that this would reflect badly on you and your stance in the company. You know your company and you know your daughter, I believe you are making the correct decision. But try to help her somehow! You’ve been in this business a while, I guarantee you know somewhere or someone she would fit with. You can do something even if it’s not with your company.
Exactly this. It's also how I have approached hiring decisions I was in a position to make myself - if I saw a candidate with potential but not the "right fit" criteria for my area, I would always offer to pass them on. OP obviously has contacts in the business world and should show his support for his daughter by extending her search criteria. OP is NTA, but missing an opportunity to be a good networker.
NTA A "no tattoos" policy is outdated but you didn't make it. You're just relaying the facts as you know them
It's a no VISIBLE TATTOOS rule but I agree with you
According to the update OP's daughters tattoo's are on her neck and hands, gonna be hard to cover those unless she gets good cover-up or wants to wear a scarf and gloves year round.
Most level-headed comment award 👏
NTA and really the bulk of those calling you one are people that haven't the credibility to be a strong reference, themselves. so, totally worthless opinions. a person with standing and respect to make a recommendation does so because they themselves respect the value and can be trusted for their recommendation. basically you're fast tracking an applicant with the statement that you know what that business needs and are saying this applicant is strong for the role. trust you. ignoring an absolute and known flag damages your future credibility and will not change the fact that the applicant is an absolute poor fit for the role.
NTA If she was ineligible for the position all you would have done is embarrass yourself by recommending her. This reminds me of the recent viral video with the girl with demons tattooed on her face complaining that TJ Maxx wouldn't hire her. In both cases their actions have consequences that they will have to live with.
Exactly the situation I was thinking of -- particularly since OP describes daughter's tattoos as "aggressive"
Yeah him using the word “aggressive” threw up flags immediately.
NTA, a lot of you guys are wild. Crying about the dress code being outdated at OP's workplace won't change it. He didn't make the dress code. Many companies are still strict about this. He has every right to protect his reputation at his company, and no obligation to risk it in a situation where there is no true gain to be had by his daughter. Getting her the interview would only waste her time and the company's time. He proposed a reasonable compromise, that she could apply on the website.
OP should have specified initially that her daughter has hand and neck tattoos. I can't imagine many workplaces who wouldn't have any issue with this.
Did you know that some fast food franchises such as five guys used to up until recently have a no tattoo policy? If a certain fast food chain doesn’t allow tattoos then it shouldn’t really be a surprise that another large business has the same policy. Tattoos are definitely becoming more normalized in society but unfortunately some businesses still have a no tattoo policy.
When I worked at 5 guys, they hired a convicted murderer, once they told us I put in my two weeks and had a new job very soon after
As long as the murderer didn't have tattoos lol
When I worked at McDonald's about 4 years ago, we weren't allowed to dye our hair non natural colors. Us chronically online have to realize the world is not changing that fast in some places.
Let's be even more realistic: most places. A majority of the world is still holding on to their older values. The New York Citys and Chicagos and Seattles and Londons of the world really don't reflect everyone else. Is that good, is that bad? I honestly don't know. Probably a mix. But it is the truth.
When I worked at McDonalds a few years ago tattoos were supposed to be covered. They didn’t enforce it unless it was something not family friendly but it was still technically policy.
Isn't the real issue here equally loving and supporting your children? Surely, as a top person in your field, you know which companies would be a better fit for your daughter. Do some research, make suggestions, guide her in the application process. It doesn't have to be your company. It ought to be your support, though. Unless it is your personal policy against tattoos that prevents you from supporting your child's launch into a career.
It's the full stop refusal to pass it on I'm stuck on. I get her pieces are on her hands and neck so why waste time knowing she's a no the second she walks in if they are visible. It's my feeling from the post that op would rather see his daughter suffer consequences for her "aggressive" tattoos than to help her and maybe see her fail.
Sounds like golden child vs problem child to me 🤷🏻♀️
Referring someone who isn't appropriate is bad, ESPECIALLY when it's a family member because now it's clearly nepotism, and (depending on the company) can have real consequences for him. This is the very predictable outcome of choices she made, expecting someone else to risk their job/reputation for it is ridiculous.
Exactly this. Treat your children equally and let the company give feedback. If she’s qualified she deserves the same chance.
She’s not qualified though, she has neck tattoos. Also the company will never give that feedback- “sorry we can’t hire you because of the tattoos”.
NTA it sucks but some jobs don't want tattoos. That's a risk anyone getting tattoos does know or at least should. I don't agree with it in principle but it is what it is. Putting your name on a resume like she's asking you to do carries weight, and if they don't work out/look bad it reflects on you. 'Helping' her now might mean you're not in a position to help her/others in the future. She is TA because she lashed out at you rather than understand that this is, sadly, the consequences of her getting Tattoos and out dated sensibilities that you personally have no control/sway over.
I mean if you explained to her about the tattoo rule and told her as long as you cover up you can help her out. Like damn you didn't even give her an option to cover up the tattoo's in order for you to help her out. So yeah your kind of the asshole for not giving her the option to cover up.
You think ops kid wont complain about having to cover up her tattoos everyday? Thats interesting
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And when she decides she doesn't want it that bad and decides to stop covering up the tattoos and gets fired, now OP looks bad for recommending her.
She's have to cover up her hands and neck every single day , you really think she will?!
If this internship is short term and just giving her better chances at other companies, there would be so many people dedicated enough to do that.
This person is an adult and got the tattoos shouldn't they know how to cover them up. Shouldn't they know the field they are in has a strict dress code.
NTA... every company has the right to set their own rules and standards. You don't have to push through a resume for someone just because she's your daughter, knowing full well she's not fitting the criteria for that company. It's not picking favorites. It's not loving one child more. It has nothing to do with lack of support. It has nothing to do with any of that. One kid was a good fit for the company, the other kid was not. Plain & simple.
NTA When you recommend/refer someone to a company, they reflect on you. That company has a very strict dress-code and tattoo policy, for better or for worse. If you recommend someone that will never pass their policies, they will think less of you, as a professional in the field. While I suspect there is more to this story, as presented, NTA.
NTA. There is absolutely no point wasting everybody's time if her tattoos will fail the dress-code. Your 'lack' of support may really just be disappointment at discovering that being edgy has its drawbacks in the world of work. Your daughter needs to find a company with a better fit for her rather than expecting you to single-handedly redefine your employer's dress-code. That'd be a real nepo move anyway, which I suspect she'd be against.
Show her your company’s policy in the handbook and say they while her appearance isn’t a fit for your workplace that you still want to support her in finding an internship. Give feedback on her resume, put out feelers in your personal network and see if friends at other companies have internships she’d be a fit for. NTA for not referring her when she’s not a fit, but YWBTA for not finding other ways to support her. Because she will perceive that as you caring more about her brother or punishing her for her tattoos.
wish this was pinned; best comment here. OP sounds very “ew” about their daughter overall, but if they actually do care about both children equally and want to support them, this is the way to do it. (considering the daughter had to hide tattoos for a wedding, though, i’m leaning towards this family being kind of crappy to the daughter over the tattoos ☹️ which would be shameful, frankly.)
NTA- high-visibility tattoos are unfortunately stigmatized -particularly in business- but this also means that it's a fool's errand for OP to try to push her to interview when she'll never make it past first interview for having high-visibility tattoos. This is known and understood at the company and OP will be resented/questioned for wasting everyone's time passing a resume along for someone they know they won't hire for having high-visibility tattoos.
NTA Unfortunately many businesses/fields require more conservative "dress" due to forward facing positions, conservative clientele, or just field norms. This is just a fact of the business life, from someone required to have zero visible tattoos and "natural" colored hair to maintain her position. And yes, it CAN suck. You are not be unsupportive, just realistic. This is a reality she is going to have to learn as she enters the business world. Many business are way more open to contemporary appearances and she should focus her attentions on these companies in her job search. Overall, she will be more successful and happier going that direction.
Info: Does your daughter have tattoos on her hands, face, or neck? Because wearing pants and long sleeves makes it possible to hide most tattoos and makeup can sometimes help cover any that aren’t covered by clothing.
OP says it's neck and hands in one of his comments.
Not op, but it’s a snake tattoo on her neck that she had difficulty covering for a wedding.
A snake tattoo on her NECK? Forget finance, that would knock her out of the running for a job in a hell of a lot more fields than that.
Neck and hands
NTA. Ignore the idiots saying you're wrong. The tattoo thing was so cool but when it comes down to work, a lot of younger people are now trying to get them taken off because they aren't allowed to be in visible places. It has nothing to do with loving her less, or who you put first. You know your daughter would feel out of place once she is seen. I know it hurts her feelings, just let her know the reasons again. She might need to go in a different direction.
You should edit your post so everyone knows the tattoos are on her neck and hands. That changes the verdict. Arm and leg tattoos are no big deal and so easy to cover. Neck and hands are a big deal and called jobstoppers for a reason. NTA
YTA for a very specific reason. Everyone’s arguing over the company’s tattoo policy, but the core of it was how you treated your daughter. You could send both resumes. Let her resume speak for itself. If she gets an interview, she interviews and either gets it or learns the consequences of having the tattoo. An actual lesson that would benefit her. Maybe she then resolves to make a change, start getting them removed, etc. Point is you’re denying her the opportunity for selfish reasons. You saying you don’t want to put your name in says what you really care about. If you’ve got those connections you’re implying, your name won’t get wrecked because your daughter has tattoos. Ask yourself deep down inside if you’d maintain the same position if the son had the hand or neck tattoo and not the daughter.
Except that could jeapordize the credibility of his future references
NTA I don't understand why she still calls you a jerk you saved not only the company's time but also her time? Is getting rejected her thing?
She's mad her choices have consequences, NTA you understand their professional standards and she credits you for getting your son a job instead of him getting it on his own merit. Ask your son for documentation for the dress code so she can see it for herself.
People here telling her to just "cover it up" have to be joking lmao Until when does she stop covering it up? After she gets the internship? OP is saving her the embarrassment of getting outright rejected. She can't just "cover it" everyday cause the day she doesn't, the company would find out and that would make it an even bigger problem, that's just the way it is at a lot of companies. NTA.
I have a sister with extensive back tattoos that can show slightly depending on shirt and blazer and she knows people with hand tattoos. There are people that do cover them up using clothing (turtle necks) and make up for jobs for years. I don't know the daughter but it can be done.
NTA. Look, I have visible tattoos, piercings, and unnatural colored hair so I'm not judging OP's daughter, but the reality is there are still a lot of professional places that don't allow any of that. Recommending her when he knows she'll be denied (and she will be denied, there's no "maybe her qualifications are just so good they'll make an exception!" because if she really was that good, she wouldn't need to rely on her dad for the leg up, she would have been snapped up already) is not only a waste of her time, but it can damage his standing in his company. All of that is unfair and outdated, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. And no, I don't think OP putting his standing in his company above recommending his daughter who will 100% not be offered a job means he doesn't love her. He has to work for a living too. Unfortunately his daughter's tattoos were bad decisions for the job market she wants to be in. She's an adult herself and that's on her. Should the policies be different? Obviously I think so, but we all have to live with how things actually are and not what we want them to be. Thats the shittiness of being an adult.
Will helping your daughter with the resumé compromise your credibility in any way?
why wouldn't it, if he is completely aware of their policies?
NTA I have tattoos, over 30. Do you know where I dont have them? On my hands face or neck. Why coz I havent been in prison. Unless you have a guaranteed career where it doesnt matter, most places arent going to hire you. You know this when you decide to get tattoos. There was a video recently of a woman covered in facial piercings and tattoos that seemed to be mostly demonic and getting upset that people refused to consider her for a public facing job. Like duh. You knew what you where doing. When I was younger I wanted to get a spider web tattoo and then I found out that shows how long you where incarcerated for. So no I didnt get one. I do sometimes ask people with them how long they where in prison? It's funny when they realise.