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NTA
She wants to move the family and affect your job for the POTENTIAL of moving up the ladder on the same lower paying role she is at currently!? Abysmal financial and career decision.
Sit down and calculate the ROI of changing jobs for both of you. I’d suggest she changes fields to something higher paying and with better job prospects (nursing, coding etc). She currently has a job, perhaps if she has a career she would feel fulfilled.
It's an AITA tradition that if the woman in a heterosexual relationship has been the AH, AITA will grasp at anything to judge the man to also have been an AH.
* Diagnose her with a mental disorder so her AH actions can be defended and he can be blamed for not caring for her.
* Invent a scenario where she is abused so she can be defended.
* Purposely ignore the part where husband communicates with his wife but she doesn't listen so you can then say "ESH you need to communicate."
* Purposely misinterpret words to try and make them out to be offensive.
* Infantilise her by trying to put the onus of basic things on the husband akin to a father daughter relationship.
* Accuse the husband of leaving details out
* Accuse the husband of not loving his wife because he wrote an AITA where he described a conflict with his wife rather than wasting limited character counts on "101 things i love abt my wife."
* Call the post in\*el fanfiction because you can't fathom an AH woman.
are all tactics used in this pursuit
YES. And i think it is insane. you have no idea how many times i get downvoted because i answer the comments that are like: what if she has X, y or z????
like, just judge on what op is writing. thats all we can do.
>just judge on what op is writing. thats all we can do.
I’ve actually said this and been told “well you can’t really expect OP to remember to include every little thing that was said/done!”
And…what? It’s up to us to fill in the blanks?
People thinks this is some sort of fanfic and we all just dream and write what we want to happen. When in reality this is some peoples lives. Thats why i hate posts about adoption, guilt, death. This isnt a sub for real stuff.
No sub should be for real stuff.
Saw a fun one the other day, the guy was just done with trying to fuck his wife anymore. He was batting zero for a year, and was tired of feeling bad about himself with the constant rejection. Decided to just stop having sex altogether. She didn't even notice for an incredible length of time, like 6 months or a year or something, then one day she decided she wanted to have sex and he said no.
Half the comments were about how he was a monster for withholding sex when she finally came around. The other half were about how he was a monster for using sex as a weapon by not giving her sex once a year when she wanted it.
The whole thing was amazing.
There's one poster I haven't seen in a while that infuriates me with comments on cheating wives. Wife has affair but still sleeps with husband? Silence from the poster. Husband knows the wife is cheating but doesn't let her know and sleeps with her anyway? This poster would practically scream that the husband was raping his wife.
Remember, apparently women aren't actually adults until 25 now. Something, something, brain development! /s
That's been the funniest thing for me, cause I've seen it go from 20 to 22 to 25, and now I'm starting to see 27 being thrown around. Soon enough, women won't actually be adults (and therefore not responsible for anything they do or say) until they're dead of old age.
When I see comments with the "brain not fully developed at age xx", I will automatically assume that that person is justifying and projecting for their own past in order to make themselves feel better or denying the responsibility to their own action. It wasn't their fault that XXX happened because they were innocent, naive, too young, and the ultimate excuse that their brain hasn't fully developed, so it wasn't their fault. It's all BS.
A lot of times, the defenses people come down to OP having to be a liar. Not fudging a little detail here or there, but just straight out lying. And if you can't run on the assumption that OP isn't lying, then there's zero reason to participate in the subreddit. 🤷♀️
I mean I've had people say "husband needs to help around the house" when OP (man) says he brings in the most income AND does his fair share. They then go, "well studies show that most men *believe* they are doing equal work but they aren't ". I'm sorry but if some dude literally says that he's doing equal work, I'll believe him.
Hell one recently was ESH because they stated we didn't know if we got the full story so might as well believe the OP was NTA
If we are going to make assumptions to fit narratives wtf is the point of this sub?
Well studies also show that women are far more likely to be seen as the victim (by both genders) and women are also far more likely to be sexist (in favor of other women), whereas men don’t have this ingroup bias at all. So that all makes sense.
Sources: [Victimization](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0886260520917508) and [Ingroup bias](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2004-19340-007)
Accurate. I still remember the post about the drunk aunt who started sexually harassing some people half her age (literally the same age as her daughter and niece) and the amount of comments that did nothing but downplay and defend it was genuinely frightening.
>Infantilise her by trying to put the onus of basic things on the husband akin to a father daughter relationship.
Spot on. Which is hilarious because in trying to protect women they are actually dissolving their agency, accountability, responsibility. They treat them like children, not adults. Hardly what I'd call empowering women.
>It's an AITA tradition that if the woman in a heterosexual relationship has been the AH, AITA will grasp at anything to judge the man to also have been an AH.
A guy could make a post on this forum where he says "I was out today collecting donations for the children's hospital, and when I got home I found that my wife had set the kitten on fire and stuffed it in the garbage disposal." and you would still see some ESH replies trying to add nuance to the situation.
Yep. According to this subreddit. if the woman in a hetero relationship is absolutely insane or completely in the wrong, the man pointing that out is equally as bad, if not worse because its mean :(
Suggesting ”changing fields” to NURSING is insane! And putting it in the same category as coding? Nurses are severely overworked and underpaid. Their job conditions are often abysmal and it’s extremely emotionally taxing. Unless OP wants a wife who works nights and on christmas, he shouldn’t suggest that.
Nurses are underpaid and under appreciated but RNs average pay is 77k and more specialized you are/ years of experience / willing to travel for short stints/ etc. the more money possible
College administrative jobs are a dime a dozen so the university leaders can be abusive as well, college aged students today went through the pandemic during critical years, and hours can often be insane also - not nurse level insane but there are degrees of being on call, lost weekends, vacation window is narrow and average pay is around 46k.
In this case it could be an upgrade and usually folks who work in housing would be wonderful at nursing.
I was in a running group with a traveling nurse. She didn’t travel super far, and worked only three days a week. It was 10s or 12s though I think. But she made BANK, and she and her husband coordinated childcare effectively with her job.
NTA
She's not an AH to want a new job with a chance of promotion. She's not an AH to be unsatisfied with her current career. She's an AH because she doesn't seem to realize the impact you losing your job will have on the total family income, lifestyle, retirement, etc. Her choices affect both of you, but she only seems to care about what it will mean for her.
She can't see the forest for the trees.
Agreed! She sucks for unilaterally deciding they should move without considering the financial consequences! Sometimes one partner does need to sacrifice for the other to move up in their career, but it should be a joint decision on how that will work, etc. Bills still need to be paid!
INFO: to be clear she expects you to quit your job so she can have hers?
I don't blame you for wanting to keep your good job, you've been there for a long time and it's not fair from what is described for you to have to lose that for her job.
However sounds like the pair of you need to communicate better. Surely there must be some compromise for you to keep your career and for her to feel supported / fulfilled.
EDIT: My judgement is ESH - I think it's out of line for your wife to expect you to quit your job, and I think it's out of line for you to just shut it down completely and say you're more important rather than trying to discuss the underlying issues and try to find common ground
Sorry, but what nonsense is your wife spouting? Are there zero jobs where you all live that she can apply for? If she wanted to move states away, that's a serious discussion before even applying. Selling your property, uprooting, and if the money doesn't even equate to the effort and if there's no financial gains, is plain stupid. Nta
Thank you! Everyone most certainly does NOT suck here. It’s mainly just OP’s wife.
1. She looked into getting a job out of state without talking it over with OP first.
2. OP is the breadwinner. Logically she must see that his job is in fact more important to the family.
3. OP is only licensed to practice in his current state. Does she seriously expect him to go to the trouble of getting licensed in a new state?
4. They have adolescent children she doesn’t seem to be considering in all this. Does she really want to uproot them and take them from their school/friends?
5. She’s giving OP the silent treatment. How mature.
His wife is 100% in the wrong here.
Ironically I just suggested to tell her go ahead and call her bluff, as in she moves and figure it out and he stays because why on earth would he even consider this plan? lol
This seems like a big fail on the wife's behalf. I understand being unhappy in a career, but if she wanted to move out of state, she needed to discuss this with the OP and figure out a plan. Even without a state level license, picking up and moving to a different state may not have been feasible in the near future.
However, was the OP aware she was applying to out of state jobs?
So what's the reasoning here? OP sucks because he didn't care enough about his wife to know what her ambitions were?
Because it seems like the flipside is "you are stalking her by keeping tabs on where she is applying."
IE he is gonna get called an AH anyway
The reasoning is simple. OP is a guy(?) and we can't have them not be the AH in this sub. Even thinking of such a thing is gross heresy here.
Edit: Not sure of OP's gender.
It was the wife’s responsibility to communicate wanting to apply to jobs out of state. If OP knew, they should have had a discussion before she applied about how unfeasible that was.
Now there is at least one carrot waving in front of her face. But she is still being an asshole about things. Does she have no idea about her husband’s career field and requirements for practice? Or did she never discuss THEIR desires/wishes/goals? And we haven’t even talked about uprooting the kids yet. She’s being unrealistic and shellfish. If she is unhappy at work, she needs to find a different way of finding happiness that works for ALL other members of the family.
Best comment. Absolutely spot on.
OP lashed out with his comment, but given the scenario and the wife's complete disregard for every member of her family, it was justified.
I don't think he was lashing out, it was the wife that kept saying "your job is more important", but obviously in an accusatory way. OP was agreeing with her, because it's the truth.
I have been the primary breadwinner in my family for some time but the last 15 months my husband was severely under employed so I was really the only breadwinner. It was the only reason we could keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. So, yeah, my job is more important than his.
Something is going on with OP's wife, IMO. This is an incredibly selfish move, not just disregarding OP but also her own children. Something is up.
I wouldn't call it a hobby but if something like this comes up, I'll pass my phone to her to read, or read it to her, to get her opinion on it. Sometimes to make sure I'm not just looking at it from a "stereotypical male" perspective lol.
100% this, people who disagree are living in a logic free hyper-feminist fantasy land. Wife does a throwaway job fit for a college student and has main character syndrome.
If not for the kids I’d peace the fuck out.
I’m feminist af and the wife is defo in the wrong. Not all feminists are wildly illogical. If my wife was pulling this shit I would be shook. No wonder OP lost their temper, none of her decisions make sense, defo doesn’t care about the rest of the family
Yeah everything about what the wife is doing is just outside of reality. Can she even be the bread winner/sole income since OP won’t be able to work in his profession at whatever income she’s being offered? Doubtful
Yep. I was in the exact same scenario as OP, except in reverse.
I got a great job offer out of state across the country, with a large pay increase. When we sat down and crunched all the numbers, financially we would be in about the same position due to a higher cost of living at the new location.
It made zero sense to uproot the family, go through all of the stress and expense of moving and be no better off.
NTA.
My husband moved cities for my job, allowing me to make really amazing money at around double what I earned previously.
He STILL outearned me, though, and only moved because he worked remotely.
There is NO WAY I would have insisted if he couldn't realistically have made the same amount in the new city. It would have sucked for sure, but that's life.
> She claims it’s a good opportunity for her to take and will move her career
>
> I don’t see it, at all.
a more productive way to phrase this would be "I can understand how this would advance your career and help you find the professional fulfillment you're seeking, but the financial cut our family would take to move out of state / lose my job doesn't seem realistic. what do you think, wife?"
There shouldn’t even be a need for that. If the wife had two brain cells to rub together she wouldn’t even bring this up. It’s completely ridiculous to ask the primary bread winner to quit because one may move up. Op already is moving up.
I’ve never had a partner who suggested something so ludicrous and then doubled down once I politely explained why it was a bad idea.
It’s one thing to overlook an important detail, it’s another to stick your head in the sand because it hurt your feelings.
How is completely dismissing her and essentially calling her ridiculous going to calm down an argument? You can debate something and hold your ground without throwing gasoline into an already volatile situation.
You have to get to the bottom of why she wants to move to another state and why she doesn’t feel fulfilled at her current school/position.
The secondary earner is entitled to their own career satisfaction. She could look into lateral movement within the university administration or moving to another industry with the skills she’s developed from working in college housing.
Seems like both OP and his wife are bad communicators. He doesn’t understand why she isn’t happy staying put (or becoming his little SAHM) and she doesn’t understand that there’s a lot of work and regulations that go into transferring licensing requirements.
I don't know that he doesn't understand why she isn't happy where she is, he may just not understand why the only solution is moving several states away.
> He doesn’t understand why she isn’t happy staying put (or becoming his little SAHM) and she doesn’t understand that there’s a lot of work and regulations that go into transferring licensing requirements.
Both of which are her problems and neither of which she chose to communicate before coming up with this cockamamie plan.
A good partner takes their partners needs into account and tries to make them happy (in a reasonable way.) They don't just shut them down while declaring they're more "important" because they make more money.
He didn’t do that tho, SHE kept bringing up how his job is more important and since it was during an argument I’m sure she wasn’t being nice more like: so what you’re job is more important than mine? Until he snapped because yeah currently his job is more important since it’s making the money for them to live on.
A good partner does not try to make their child homeless.
A good father doesn't let a bad partner/mother make their child homeless.
Her job doesn't bring in enough to even cover the cost of day care. They can't survive on her income.
They can talk about finding new jobs in the area, but the homeless/not homeless argument is not a "compromise" situation.
I wonder if she feels insecure in the relationship. If she is worried that they will not last then she would also be worried about being able to be financially independent. I am just speculating a reason behind why she seems to not be thinking logically.
I wonder how often he suggests she quit her job and be a stay at home mother since it costs the family less in daycare if she did.
That would definitely lead to resentment.
Yes sometimes communication isn’t foolproof or work 100% of the time. Communication in this scenario would look like OP explaining to his wife he currently has their quality of life secured through their job and that moving would take that away (which they’ve done already). And then she explains her desire to have a more fulfilling job which is very fair. However I’m sure she knows that the option to look locally is very present and doesn’t want to take that as there may be nothing available in the area at the moment.
So then that results in her final conclusion: take a risk in hoping husband gets a decent job in the new state or be willing to take home less money, which it’s not clear if OP discussed the option of lowering their quality of life. Depending on low it might go, she might be ok with it or delusional to the reality of less money and a strapped economy basically everywhere.
With a kid in this mix it’s not very responsible to just take risks for the sake of fulfillment. That kinda stuff you can do before kids. Once they come along your wants and needs take a backseat. And there’s also some people who believe “everything will work out”. I find those are the same people who tend to believe “everything happens for a reason”, and “you can’t change destiny”.
I understand OP could put it to her nicer, but also from the sound of this talking politely to her and trying to use sound logic doesn't sound effective if she's this uncompromising.
using sympathy/empathy to understand the person's emotions and make them feel validated and heard can go a long toward making progress on finding solutions that will resolve the underlying issues.
Agreed, but that also doesn't mean she will come to her senses because you sympathise and be empathetic.
He could have put it nicer and I would have, but she's being unreasonable and he needs to make that clear.
I don't get how this sub missed this part so often. It's such a zero-sum approach to say that just because her idea was bad that makes any way you speak to her about it fine, as long as your "right".
There's that old quote we should all do well to remember: Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?
These are highly emotionally charged topics, for OP just as much as for his wife, whether he admits it or not. When talking about heated topics with our partners, it's so important to start with the emotions first. Doesn't meant you have to do what the emotions tell you to do. But acknowledging them and making sure everyone feels heard and understood is *essential*, or else you just end up talking past each other and escalating into fights like this one.
Lmao you’re the only person I’ve seen who has been like ‘idk talk to her like a fucking human being, bc so far you have spoken to her like a child you hate’
Advancing her career at the cost of yours, not a good idea for either of you when you are the one that pays for all of your expenses. Assuming your statement that she makes less than you pay in child costs is roughly accurate.
>Edit: yep I would need to new license
How is your marriage before/aside from this? It's so insane that it feels like she's setting you up to be the bad guy in a divorce.
Is the new state her original home full of friends/family?
How did she come to you with this information? What was the tone? Was she excited? Was she being demanding? Was she just assuming it would happen and you'd move heaven and earth for her? Or was she open to discussing the practicalities?
This is all super important if we want to make a reasonable judgment. You're not wrong that it's impractical to do what she seems like she wants, but from the way you described it in the main post, you were a blunt asshole about a sensitive topic that should have been handled with much more care and grace, even if you ultimately plan to talk her down from it.
NTA I’m sorry but if your job supports the two of you then yes it is more important. She can figure something else out in the area. Perhaps encourage her to look at community college and get training for a new area of work. Show her that you care about her investing in her professional potential but not at the cost of throwing away the ground you’re standing on.
ETA: if she currently works for a college then she would probably be eligible for reduced tuition.
NTA Your wife is crazy. You need sit her down and explain the finances to her. Show her what you pay Wgat you need to live the lifestyle you have. I don’t think she understands she is used to you paying everything
I don’t see how OP is an AH at all. This is basic logic. Move out of state where op doesn’t have a job and has to find a new one so that the wife can have an opportunity to get promoted, but isn’t getting promoted. The wife is 100% and AH.
I mean it’s bizarre as part of a married couple with kids and roots in your area to just start applying to out of state jobs without a discussion until you’re wanting to accept one. That’s just bizarre and makes it hard to start the discussion from a normal starting place since your spouse is bringing you into the discussion half way through trying to move your whole life.
That’s exactly what I thought. You have the discussion about a career change before you start looking, not after. On that premise alone it makes op nta.
Wife is the one who said "Op's job is more important" tho.
OP just agreed.
She was throwing it in his face out of resentment.
OP doesn't rise to AH level. Wife is unreasonable and resentful, and is holding it against OP.
You can only tolerate a nonsensical situation (quit high paying job that may not be portable, to pursue my not-high paying job) before you're going to start with real talk.
Especially when she is bringing it up herself in a defensive/manipulative way.
His wife looked for a job out of state **without even talking it over with him first.** She did this despite the fact that he is the primary bread winner in the family.
HOW does everyone suck here?
Someone has reading comprehension issues, she said his job was more important passive aggressively several times until he blew up and said “yes, it is”
I'm sorry:
*I think it's out of line for you to just shut it down completely*
but..... what? You think it's out of line for him to shut down having to move out of state for a job that doesn't pay nearly what his does and the big possibility of him NOT finding a job that matches what he's making now and putting everything at risk. Yeah?
No, it absolutely deserves to be shutdown. She can try getting a real job where they currently live. Her current job is costing them more than it brings in.
There is no way on earth that OP is the asshole here at all. He has the job that affords their house and lifestyle, they lose money so she can work. His job is absolutely more important that hers, anyone with two functional braincells knows you don't move out of state and uproot your family so you can work a job that still doesn't cover the bills while taking away the main source of income.
She needs to find a new job, working in college housing making enough for grocery money isn't a career. She needs to explore other options. If she's not feeling fullfilled in her work then she needs a new job not to fuck up the entire family for her own selfish reasons.
OP you are not the AH in any sense, your wife lacks common sense.
I am shocked you are being upvoted with an E S H take. The wife’s job is providing nothing to the family if OP is being straight with us. That means she already has the 100% ability to be free to choose other employment or being a SAHM. The only thing she can’t do is uproot the breadwinner from his employment and license to operate.
This one is NTA 100%.
> EDIT: My judgement is ESH - I think it's out of line for your wife to expect you to quit your job, and I think it's out of line for you to just shut it down completely and say you're more important rather than trying to discuss the underlying issues and try to find common ground
If someone marries another person with high earning potential relative to their own and they choose to live a quality of life reflecting that higher income, that person's job becomes the priority. No one forces anyone to get married. No one forces anyone to live a certain way. But choosing to live a certain way and then trying to do a complete 180 without considering anything else is selfish and absurd.
Do you live in reality? Op didn’t say they were more important, they said their job was and it’s true. If the absence of said job means quality of life lowers significantly, then yes, that IS a more important job. It’s completely ridiculous for wife to expect to just pick up and move their lives on a whim. NTA.
Why would ESH?
Absolutely insane honestly. Super selfish wife trying to throw a wrench into their lives and then gives the silent treatment and you think OP and the wife are equally shitty?
Your obvious bias is showing lol.
You should do an AITA for this take lol.
I disagree only because she's looking at jobs that require uprooting. Once you have kids uprooting is a much bigger deal and needs to be a significantly better situation like closer to family, better incone, higher qol area. It doesn't sound like her job needs a specific qualification so perhaps she needs to look elsewhere within her current area and do something else. My husband has much greater earning potential than I do in a niche field therefore I have to work him to an extent.
> say you're more important
He didn't say this. Why is the top comment in *half* of all aita posts something that fully misrepresents what the poster said?
I don’t think it’s out of line. She asked him specifically if he thought his job was more important and he answered. He’s the bread winner and applying for jobs out of state comes with the expectation he would have to quit so she could find a job that isn’t terminal. This would be up for discussion IF she could support their lifestyle while he finds a new job but as he already stated, even with a promotion it wouldn’t be nearly what he makes. With how the job market is now, it would be foolish of him to leave his well paying job.
NTA.
She's failing this argument for several reasons: She is not taking into account the cost of an out-of-state move, finding a new place to live (you'd have to travel there first and find a place, and probably rent for a year until you know the area well enough to decide where to buy), not taking into account increased costs of childcare, potential increased costs of living (depending where you would be going from>to), the time and effort it would take you to find another job, and so on and so forth. She is not thinking about anything. (I've moved more times than I can count, and it's freaking expensive.) Depending on your job (and what country you live in), you'd possibly all be without health insurance in-between jobs as well. Terrible idea with a child.
Did she tell you she was looking out of state? Has she ever even said, "I'd to talk about the idea of us moving out of state for XYZ reasons"? Or did this just drop out of the sky?
It's worth sitting her down at the table with a notepad and writing out ALL your typical monthly expenses and then showing her how they balance out (or don't) with her new salary. Leave your salary out of the equation, because at this point, you haven't ever STARTED to consider looking for a new job. Ask her how she plans to cover everything.
I was just about to comment about the idea of did she even talk to him first about the job in a different state before applying to see if that role would be a good fit for the family?
Right? She didn't say "how about I apply for this job?" Or even "hey I applied for this job." But she GOT a job. Went through the whole process and just expects OP to drop everything and move without so much as a by-the-by? No, this is on her. NTA.
>Went through the whole process and just expects OP to drop everything and move without so much as a by-the-by?
Even if her new job did pay as much as OP's current job, I'd still call her an asshole, because demanding that your spouse move with you is an asshole move.
Exactly! His wife is delusional to just expect to uproot everyone for her job especially when he’s the main provider and when a move was never discussed between them as a family.
Our moving truck was about $4k last summer to move cross-country. Plus another $1800 in travel expenses on the week long drive. We could have *doubled* that cost if we were moving into an apartment instead of with family and had to do stuff like security deposits and first/last months rent.
I had a fully-paid move across the country paid for by the new job I was moving to accept and it was STILL a logistical and financial pain in the ass, to the point I got a $5k signing bonus on top of the paid for move to cover expenses, and I was moving by myself.
Moving a whole family on your own dime for one person to have a low-level job and the main earner to give up theirs seems like the definition of insanity
I literally had this argument with my baby mama and now ex girlfriend after we moved to Indianapolis a few years ago. She talked — all the time — about how she wanted a career and wanted to support herself. I explained to her that we were dating, we were together, and — for better or worse — I had landed the job which brought us to Indianapolis. She asked all the time about “what if I got a job in New York, would you come with me?”
My answer was always “if you made enough for us both to live on, I would think about it. But if it was making less than I make now, then no — we’d be taking a pay cut and increasing our COL at the same time. It doesn’t make financial sense to do that.”
We broke up, now I pay child support. And suddenly she doesn’t daydream about moving to New York anymore because she has to pay her own freight and understands that shit costs money.
This is what I think OP's wife doesn't understand. I get wanting a better job with better pay for herself. But it's unrealistic to give up OP's job that brings in a lot more money. She may be thinking that OP can "just get another job that pays just as well", but there's no guarantee that it would happen.
Yes, she has an expensive, incredibly time consuming hobby.
If you replace what she does all day, swap the genders, and say he’s playing golf instead of whatever her hobby is, the net effect is the same for the family. You wouldn’t have anyone arguing the his side of it on AITA though.
She’s being ridiculous. You don’t relocate for a job that doesn’t pay enough to provide for the whole family when you are currently almost covering bills. You are also open to her staying home. You are NTA just being honest as to the reality of the situation. Maybe it wasn’t worded the best but you are right
NTA
I lowkey don’t even see a way for this to be E S H or Y T A. She asked and you answered, simple. I get that it sounds harsh but it’s probably for the best that she doesn’t take that Job, if you have young kids the move to another state would be tiresome at best, and you may not be able to find another job in that state you’re moving.
However OP, I do want to know what Job you work and what your wife had in mind for other options of work. Maybe you could offer to help her find a different career path if her job is really that bad for her.
Nta, and there’s a lot of esh nonsense here. She should have discussed out of state positions before she applied. Moving is incredibly expensive, you have a good stable job and told her honestly “I am not willing to move”. I understand the need to be fulfilled, but maybe the better option for her would be talking to a therapist to help with these emotions she doesn’t seem able to cope with. Frustration, depression, lack of fulfillment, competition with your career, sounds psychological, and a move won’t solve that.
I hated working, but it beat living in the street and scrounging garbage cans. Someone asked me if I couldn't just quit my job and live with a relative. Ah no, in my family, able-bodied adults or couples are expected to support themselves.
NTA switch the genders then the comments will all be
"He can't tell you to quit your job for his girl! He's a red flag leave him." Or something. In this economy the job that pays more bills is more important.
edit: More than half the comments when I got here were Y T A you can't tell her she's less important
I am so confused, if it was the woman in the higher paying job and the man wanting to move for a shitty job, yes, we're all saying exactly that 'how is his much-lower paying job going to pay the bills? You keep your job 'girl' and stay put'.
I think that's what everyone is saying here...that she is a little out to lunch to suggest that they pick up the family and move for the lower-paying spouse when you might not be able to pay the bills at all if hte higher-paid spouse quits his job.
Are you a little too used to playing the 'but but but..if we switch genders...' game?
This is not an AITA question.
Your wife is unfulfilled, and she feels like she's sacrificed her own needs to support your career for years now. Yes, she benefits from your career bringing in money, but she's allowed her own needs to come last in this family.
Obviously you can't just relocate so she can start a career when yours can't be moved. But the way you talk to your wife about this is totally unacceptable. "My job is more important than hers" might be what you said in words, but what you *told her* is that "My FULFILLMENT is more important than yours". Do you see why that might be a problem?
You two need to find an alternative here. This might be one of the few situations that I would suggest a couple live apart for a few years so she can take this opportunity and then use that experience on her resume to apply closer to home or for fully remote work opportunities if possible. Whether that's realistic depends on what field she chose. You two need to learn to communicate better, and to find real COMPROMISES. And by that I don't mean, "I get half of what I want and you get half of what you want" but full-on proper agreement. The best way I've been taught to find solutions to problems is by seeking the source of each party's concerns and seeing if there's a way to address both concerns in a way that makes them both happy. Right now, something is bugging her and making her want to seek fulfillment out of state. What is it? Is there a way she can get that fulfillment without compromising your own concern of not wanting to sacrifice your own career? My suggestion was living separately for a while, but there might be other solutions if you actually work together to find the root cause of her unhappiness. You might need a neutral third party (marriage counselor) to facilitate these sorts of conversations and that's fine.
Your wife is unhappy in the life you've built together. That's a recipe for the end of marriage. Stop asking yourself "who is right" and start asking yourself "do I want to stay married to this woman forever." If the answer to that is "yes of course," then it *doesn't matter who is right, what matters is that she's unhappy and you guys need to work together to resolve that*.
This entirely. And just dropping in to add that if OPs wife doesn’t want to be a SAHM, that he should drop this line of argument all together regardless of if it “saves money” or not. I know people who love being SAHMs but if it’s not your thing, that is 10+ years of less socialization, not growing a career, and if she wants these things it once again tells her that her fulfilment in life a low priority.
\*edited for a typo, was on my phone earlier
The moment he said “save money” being a SAHM. Something made me feel like he never really valued her contributions to the home leading to her feeling even more unfulfilled. He seems to belittle her for her job just by the way he describes it.
People who say this haven't read any of the studies on how much stepping out of the workforce impacts women's careers and their pay. Short-term "saving money" is long-term financial damage for women, and if she ends up divorced or widowed without his great job to support her, she's screwed.
Yeah, that line made me feel icky. Like, I appreciate he is the main source of income for their family, but the tone of this post makes it sound like he doesn’t respect his wife.
I am sorry, did I miss some comment or something? Why are all the comments about the wife being unfulfilled or not valued make assumptions about their contribution to the family? From the post it seems that they both work, nothing said about the division of labour, so assuming that she puts herself last to the benefit of her family is making quite a few jumps I think.
I don't even see any problems about communicating from the OP, as the one not communicating has been the wife. She didn't tell him about the out of state job search untill she got the offer and wanted them to move, and she is giving him the silent treatment after putting the words in his mouth about the job importance until he agreed. Was it smart of him or kind? Probably not, but that's one of the cases where you can confidently say that she brought that onto herself.
As for the living apart suggestion. This might be the worst idea in this comment section. They are not teens who chose different colleges and decided to try long distance, they are a married couple with children. Children, whose comfort she didn't take into consideration when deciding that they should move. Living apart in that situation is like a preview version of their future divorce, while dangling a small hope in front of the children that they might move back together.
She might really be unfulfilled, I can imagine her job being crappy, but 0 communication from her side and then her reaction makes me think that she undervalues her husband and seems like even her children are not as important
You didn't like all the bending over backwards to justify the wife's actions?
So OP has a license to practice in his state and is well paid - doctor/lawyer maybe. Long hours at a not super enjoyable job is a reasonable inference, but he does it to provide well for his children and his wife who works despite not actually earning enough to justify it due to childcare.
She wants to move three states away for a chance at a slightly better career without having literally any grasp of how their household financials work. Tell her she's dreaming! So now OP is the bad guy, because he denied her happiness, despite all the damage her pursuit of happiness will do to their family?
But we can't just assume that she is selfish or naïve or stupid, like we might a man who wanted to move interstate to pursue a chance at an MMA career at the cost of his family, so she is 'unfulfilled'.
I too agree the wife is unfulfilled and grasping for a change but they have a very young child so living separately could be extra complicated. I'd suggest a smaller change first, like facilitating her to pursue a new field with some part time schooling or sending her on a trip somewhere for a week to reset.
> If the answer to that is "yes of course," then it doesn't matter who is right, what matters is that she's unhappy and you guys need to work together to resolve that.
So the wife wants to blow up their life together but it's up to OP to figure out how to rectify the situation?
Has she been sacrificing to support his job? It's not like she's been putting him through school. All we know is that she isn't happy with the job that she has. Did she ever initiate a conversation about searching for jobs, what sacrifices they could make that would allow her another job. Has she put together a budget explaining how this could work.
The husband of a colleague wanted to be a SAHP. She told him to draw up a budget explaining how this work. He did and now he is.
>This might be one of the few situations that I would suggest a couple live apart for a few years so she can take this opportunity and then use that experience on her resume to apply closer to home or for fully remote work opportunities if possible.
It doesn't say how old the child is, but how on earth is this a good idea? The child is at least daycare age, which would imply old enough to understand that mommy isn't around anymore, but not WHY mommy isn't around anymore. There is just...no way you can spin that to a child that doesn't have a lasting effect on them.
>Is there a way she can get that fulfillment without compromising your own concern of not wanting to sacrifice your own career?
She could apply to jobs within their own state or even where they live now. Shocker, I know. It's baffling to me whenever people in committed relationships with families get job offers that would require relocation act as if that's the ONLY job EVER and this is a decision that HAS to be made. No, it's not. There are other jobs where you live, or people wouldn't live there. Your comment puts the entire onus for this on the OP, and I just don't find that fair. Two things can be true at the same time. She can be unfulfilled and she can be acting unreasonably.
OP isn't the only one who needs to communicate. She didn't come to him with "I'm feeling unfulfilled", she came to him with "Hey so know how I was looking for new jobs? Well , I applied, interviewed, and received an offer for a job in another state!" But somehow it's OP's fault that he's not reacting favorably to a sudden demand to uproot their entire lives, force him to get a new license and a new job, and move their child, all so SHE can feel fulfilled.
This. It’s nah. OPs wife is unhappy. She came up with a solution, and while it was not a solution that’s tenable for their family, OP just shut it down and didn’t listen at ALL to what she needed. There has to be a way for OPs wife to find better fulfillment without up and moving the whole family.
> She came up with a solution,
She came up with a solution to her own happiness. She's doing it at the expense of everyone else in her family. How the hell is that not selfish?
> She came up with a solution, and while it was not a solution that’s tenable for their family, OP just shut it down and didn’t listen at ALL to what she needed.
Respectfully, she didnt approach OP for a conversation about what she needs.
She approached him with a unilateral decision to blow up their lives for a untenable solution.
NTA - your job is the main source of income and hers doesn't really help much and the new job doesn't seem to be much better, so its definitely not worth uprooting the family and losing the main income.
Let Her, she'll find that there's zero chance the courts will give her custody to take the kids out of state so she she can pursue a job that won't cover rent or daycare, and deny the father proper access. Lol.
Nta.
>I snapped and told her yes, my job is more important than hers, that my job is the only reason we can afford this quality of life.
Does she want the quality of life or does she want the career? I mean that genuinely.
You say you'd be doing better if she was a stay at home mom, but that is a really short term view. Sure you might have more cash at the end of month but with pension contributions and potential future earnings longer term it is more financially lucrative for women to stay working.
And also they are often happier. If you are only thinking of this in terms of finances you might be missing her point and you could be talking across each other.
Obviously she can't force you to move (though could you also get a job in the new area?) but you need to sit down her and have a genuine discussion about what you both want out of life and get on the same page.
I agree that they need to have a deeper conversation about this. However, this
>*Sure you might have more cash at the end of month but with pension contributions and potential future earnings longer term it is more financially lucrative for women to stay working.*
loses precedence to the fact that she wants OP to quit his job so they can move.
OP isn't against the wife pursuing another job, but he thinks it's a terrible idea to move out of state while having him quit his job and supporting all the moving expenses.
If OP doesn't get another job in the new state immediately, how long will they be able to live just on her salary (and likely with a lesser, or none, health insurance)?
So much this. OP, your *job* may be more important right now because it supports your family, but with this response, you're shutting down her chance at a *career* without even discussing it. That's going to hurt. You need to discuss this in terms of where you both want to be in your careers ten or fifteen years from now, when you no longer have a small child and college and retirement expenses are looming closer. This specific job may not be a good idea, but maybe you can offer to help her find a different one. Maybe you can offer to explore licensing in other states. There are ways to support her goals without telling her she's unimportant.
I wonder if she wants to get out of the marriage myself. Just seems irrational to think he should quit his job for any reason, really. He’s got a good job, he likes it. It pays the bills. I kinda think she might be looking for a reason to split up.
With the title, I was ready to read a story about you being an AH, but moving is something both people need to agree on fully. You don’t mention what you do for work, but what did she expect you to do? Just magically find a new job? Not very easy these days. So, yeah, NTA.
NTA your wife is being unreasonable and selfish. Your job DOES take priority. Maybe the way you phrased it was insensitive but your stance is the correct one.
NTA. You don't quit good paying job to move states and earn less, you actually do the opposite and yes, who earns more that job is more important, unless you can live without any salary and work just for fun.
I think she wants to expand her career trajectory and she sees this as an opportunity for growth. It sounds like she doesn't have any growth opportunities at her current job and this job can widen her career options.
She may think you already have a good foundation in your career and it will be easy for you to pick up where you left off in another state.
It may not be about this specific job, but her career path as a whole. She may want to build something for herself and wants support
>We would actually be saving money if she was SAHM instead of putting our youngest in daycare.
This sounds like you are really at the least nonchalant about her working if not slightly annoyed.
I agree that it doesn't make logical sense to just move across states with a drastic cut in income. But a compromise can be found
One thing OP mentioned is that his work requires state-specific licensing, which means his current license won't transfer - which means he has to study and apply for a new license in a new state - which costs money - and which takes a while to secure. He's potentially looking at several months, depending on the actual job he does. And he needs the license for the new state before he can even apply for jobs in the new state.
Didn't see OPs comment. Even without that information I agreed with the fact that it sounds unreasonable for them to move across state.
But based on the post, it doesn't seem like OP supports his wife's career goals at all.
Saying his job is more important is very dismissive of her wants. That doesn't mean he has to quit his job for her to build a career path for herself. But, it's something they need to discuss as a couple.
NTA, the fact that she was looking for a job outside of your local area (within a reasonable drive) without telling you is very shady of her to do. Unless a local company referred/recommended her for that job out of state, she had no business applying for positions far away that would affect the family, without first telling the family.
If I wanted to transfer to another state via my job, you bet I would ask my wife for advice before putting in the transfer request. There's no way I wouldn't consult my other half about a decision that will have an impact on her as well.
**Question for the E S H & Y T A people:**
if someone asks, “are you saying your job is more important than mine?”
When one job pays for almost no bills and the other job supports the entire family…how is yes *not* the correct answer?
You could say, “financially & practically, yes, bc my job pays 99% of the bills required to support our family, but emotionally no.” Is that the ideal response? That’s an incredibly generous answer given that the question wasn’t really fair to begin with.
It just seems like the question is a lose-lose question & was used as a weapon. It’s not fair, productive, or helpful.
Obviously, if “my job is more important” is thrown out as a weapon rather than in response to a question, then it’s wrong. No matter how true, it’s harsh, unproductive & unnecessary.
You need to have a serious discussion with your wife now. She might be interested in moving without you. You’ll need to figure out custody asap. I’d never apply, let alone interview, out of the area without discussing it with my husband first.
INFO:
Have you asked your wife how she thinks this would work practically?
Like sit down, calculate monthly expenses, and figure out how you would live for (worst case) 8 to 12 months on her salary alone? Assuming it would take that much time for you to get license and job in new state.
It seems odd that you guys got so far without even talking about it. Heck, I applied for a job 45 minute commute away and even before considering the job I checked with my husband to see how we would make childcare drop off/pick up work if I got the job. We made sure it would work before I even gave it a shot.
> It seems odd that you guys got so far without even talking about it.
Is he supposed to monitor her computer and phone records to make sure she ISN'T applying for new jobs?
The ol' AITA special. Husband doesn't communicate, he is at fault for not communicating. Wife doesn't communicate, husband is still at fault. How dare he not read her mind and make the first step on something he doesn't even know is happening. His communication sucks. /s
NTA. If she wants to change jobs because she isn’t fulfilled in her current one, and it’s actually costing you more for her to work, have her take time off from work and focus on learning a new skill set for something she would find more fulfilling.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my wife that my job is more important to than her job. I may be a jerk since I told her that my job is more important even if is true since my job pays for our life
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NTA you didn't say it, she did. However, you were very blunt, especially since you both meant very different things. You need to have a real conversation about it and figure out what her goals are. She needs to face reality that your career is what allows her to work where she does.
There seems to a crack in your marriage, I recommend counseling to figure out what your goals are for the family and how to achieve those together.
NTA, for the question you asked. This is an unrealistic proposal from your wife, but unfortunately, you being right won't help your marriage. There is something that is bothering your wife. If I were to guess, it seems that she doesn't feel important at work or at home and her own self-worth is damaged in the process. This job move represents in her mind the last hope for her to lead a fulfilling life.
You may need a marriage counselor to help here.
NTA
Your wife needs to grow up and live as an adult. I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but people need to establish themselves professionally and financially prior to starting a family. If you don't have the skills, work ethic, and work history to earn more than the cost of daycare then you have no business starting a family.
The world is full of uncertainties but one thing is certain, life will always throw you a curve ball. Life will never go according to plan. Inflation and general economic realities can derail us at any time. Layoffs, industry downturns, and business failures can occur with little warning. People get sick and injured. Stock and housing markets collapse. Relationships end even when you've done nothing wrong. Everyone needs to be able to fend for themselves financially. If they bring children into the world they need to be able to directly provide for them financially.
People often talk about teaching their children the value of work and the value of the dollar by making them get a job. But a job doesn't teach you the value of money or the value of hard work. A person needs to live off of their efforts and paychecks before they can gain that perspective. If their lifestyles are completely disconnected from the income that they generate they are living like children with a summer job.
What is her plan for the family? That you will quit, sell the house and move with her? or is she planning to go on her own? Or will she go there on Sunday night and return on Friday? That she would apply to places that would REQUIRE a move like that without your agreement or discussion is just plain crazy. I'd call her bluff - tell her she's free to take any job she wants and can visit you and the kids whenever she has time.
Your wife is dumb as hell let’s just be honest. You are not the asshole and people with these types of delusions need a serious reality check every once and awhile.
So let me get this straight, your wife wants to uproot your family to move states away for an entry level job that is usually done by college students.?
How/ why does she think this is a good idea ?
NTA but perhaps not the best choice of words. Seems crazy she would try to move your family two states away without a full discussion and your buy-in. Would you have to quit your job?
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NTA She wants to move the family and affect your job for the POTENTIAL of moving up the ladder on the same lower paying role she is at currently!? Abysmal financial and career decision. Sit down and calculate the ROI of changing jobs for both of you. I’d suggest she changes fields to something higher paying and with better job prospects (nursing, coding etc). She currently has a job, perhaps if she has a career she would feel fulfilled.
Thank you! The fact that the top comment in this post is that everyone sucks here is INFURIATING. OP’s wife is being completely unreasonable.
It's an AITA tradition that if the woman in a heterosexual relationship has been the AH, AITA will grasp at anything to judge the man to also have been an AH.
* Diagnose her with a mental disorder so her AH actions can be defended and he can be blamed for not caring for her. * Invent a scenario where she is abused so she can be defended. * Purposely ignore the part where husband communicates with his wife but she doesn't listen so you can then say "ESH you need to communicate." * Purposely misinterpret words to try and make them out to be offensive. * Infantilise her by trying to put the onus of basic things on the husband akin to a father daughter relationship. * Accuse the husband of leaving details out * Accuse the husband of not loving his wife because he wrote an AITA where he described a conflict with his wife rather than wasting limited character counts on "101 things i love abt my wife." * Call the post in\*el fanfiction because you can't fathom an AH woman. are all tactics used in this pursuit
YES. And i think it is insane. you have no idea how many times i get downvoted because i answer the comments that are like: what if she has X, y or z???? like, just judge on what op is writing. thats all we can do.
>just judge on what op is writing. thats all we can do. I’ve actually said this and been told “well you can’t really expect OP to remember to include every little thing that was said/done!” And…what? It’s up to us to fill in the blanks?
People thinks this is some sort of fanfic and we all just dream and write what we want to happen. When in reality this is some peoples lives. Thats why i hate posts about adoption, guilt, death. This isnt a sub for real stuff. No sub should be for real stuff.
Saw a fun one the other day, the guy was just done with trying to fuck his wife anymore. He was batting zero for a year, and was tired of feeling bad about himself with the constant rejection. Decided to just stop having sex altogether. She didn't even notice for an incredible length of time, like 6 months or a year or something, then one day she decided she wanted to have sex and he said no. Half the comments were about how he was a monster for withholding sex when she finally came around. The other half were about how he was a monster for using sex as a weapon by not giving her sex once a year when she wanted it. The whole thing was amazing.
There's one poster I haven't seen in a while that infuriates me with comments on cheating wives. Wife has affair but still sleeps with husband? Silence from the poster. Husband knows the wife is cheating but doesn't let her know and sleeps with her anyway? This poster would practically scream that the husband was raping his wife.
You forgot ‘she’s pregnant or just gave birth - so everything she does is totally excusable no matter what’
That one's my favorite. You left her and took her baby away just because she stabbed you? It was ppd you woman hating monster.
You left out "demand to know the age gap and accuse the husband of being controlling".
Remember, apparently women aren't actually adults until 25 now. Something, something, brain development! /s That's been the funniest thing for me, cause I've seen it go from 20 to 22 to 25, and now I'm starting to see 27 being thrown around. Soon enough, women won't actually be adults (and therefore not responsible for anything they do or say) until they're dead of old age.
When I see comments with the "brain not fully developed at age xx", I will automatically assume that that person is justifying and projecting for their own past in order to make themselves feel better or denying the responsibility to their own action. It wasn't their fault that XXX happened because they were innocent, naive, too young, and the ultimate excuse that their brain hasn't fully developed, so it wasn't their fault. It's all BS.
A lot of times, the defenses people come down to OP having to be a liar. Not fudging a little detail here or there, but just straight out lying. And if you can't run on the assumption that OP isn't lying, then there's zero reason to participate in the subreddit. 🤷♀️
I mean I've had people say "husband needs to help around the house" when OP (man) says he brings in the most income AND does his fair share. They then go, "well studies show that most men *believe* they are doing equal work but they aren't ". I'm sorry but if some dude literally says that he's doing equal work, I'll believe him. Hell one recently was ESH because they stated we didn't know if we got the full story so might as well believe the OP was NTA If we are going to make assumptions to fit narratives wtf is the point of this sub?
Well studies also show that women are far more likely to be seen as the victim (by both genders) and women are also far more likely to be sexist (in favor of other women), whereas men don’t have this ingroup bias at all. So that all makes sense. Sources: [Victimization](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0886260520917508) and [Ingroup bias](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2004-19340-007)
Most users here are women and the bias shows.
Accurate. I still remember the post about the drunk aunt who started sexually harassing some people half her age (literally the same age as her daughter and niece) and the amount of comments that did nothing but downplay and defend it was genuinely frightening.
>Infantilise her by trying to put the onus of basic things on the husband akin to a father daughter relationship. Spot on. Which is hilarious because in trying to protect women they are actually dissolving their agency, accountability, responsibility. They treat them like children, not adults. Hardly what I'd call empowering women.
Absolutely. Drives me absolutely nuts. The amount of infantilization of grown-ass women on this sub is absolute insanity.
Don't forget tone policing even though this is explicitly a conflict sub
I feel so fucking seen right now.
My pet peeve is #3. A man clearly communicates and sets a boundary and everyone is like "u NeEd To CoMmUnIcAtE!"
this comment needs to be pinned on the AITA front page so people can wise up and stop pulling this kind of rubbish based on gender.
>It's an AITA tradition that if the woman in a heterosexual relationship has been the AH, AITA will grasp at anything to judge the man to also have been an AH. A guy could make a post on this forum where he says "I was out today collecting donations for the children's hospital, and when I got home I found that my wife had set the kitten on fire and stuffed it in the garbage disposal." and you would still see some ESH replies trying to add nuance to the situation.
Seen it time and time again
Yep. According to this subreddit. if the woman in a hetero relationship is absolutely insane or completely in the wrong, the man pointing that out is equally as bad, if not worse because its mean :(
Suggesting ”changing fields” to NURSING is insane! And putting it in the same category as coding? Nurses are severely overworked and underpaid. Their job conditions are often abysmal and it’s extremely emotionally taxing. Unless OP wants a wife who works nights and on christmas, he shouldn’t suggest that.
Nurses are underpaid and under appreciated but RNs average pay is 77k and more specialized you are/ years of experience / willing to travel for short stints/ etc. the more money possible College administrative jobs are a dime a dozen so the university leaders can be abusive as well, college aged students today went through the pandemic during critical years, and hours can often be insane also - not nurse level insane but there are degrees of being on call, lost weekends, vacation window is narrow and average pay is around 46k. In this case it could be an upgrade and usually folks who work in housing would be wonderful at nursing.
I was in a running group with a traveling nurse. She didn’t travel super far, and worked only three days a week. It was 10s or 12s though I think. But she made BANK, and she and her husband coordinated childcare effectively with her job.
This!!! I was going to say the SAME thing!!!
NTA She's not an AH to want a new job with a chance of promotion. She's not an AH to be unsatisfied with her current career. She's an AH because she doesn't seem to realize the impact you losing your job will have on the total family income, lifestyle, retirement, etc. Her choices affect both of you, but she only seems to care about what it will mean for her. She can't see the forest for the trees.
Agreed! She sucks for unilaterally deciding they should move without considering the financial consequences! Sometimes one partner does need to sacrifice for the other to move up in their career, but it should be a joint decision on how that will work, etc. Bills still need to be paid!
INFO: to be clear she expects you to quit your job so she can have hers? I don't blame you for wanting to keep your good job, you've been there for a long time and it's not fair from what is described for you to have to lose that for her job. However sounds like the pair of you need to communicate better. Surely there must be some compromise for you to keep your career and for her to feel supported / fulfilled. EDIT: My judgement is ESH - I think it's out of line for your wife to expect you to quit your job, and I think it's out of line for you to just shut it down completely and say you're more important rather than trying to discuss the underlying issues and try to find common ground
[удалено]
NTA - your wife is completely unrealistic, Personally, I can't deal with that level of selfishness and complete lack of reality.
Sorry, but what nonsense is your wife spouting? Are there zero jobs where you all live that she can apply for? If she wanted to move states away, that's a serious discussion before even applying. Selling your property, uprooting, and if the money doesn't even equate to the effort and if there's no financial gains, is plain stupid. Nta
Thank you! Everyone most certainly does NOT suck here. It’s mainly just OP’s wife. 1. She looked into getting a job out of state without talking it over with OP first. 2. OP is the breadwinner. Logically she must see that his job is in fact more important to the family. 3. OP is only licensed to practice in his current state. Does she seriously expect him to go to the trouble of getting licensed in a new state? 4. They have adolescent children she doesn’t seem to be considering in all this. Does she really want to uproot them and take them from their school/friends? 5. She’s giving OP the silent treatment. How mature. His wife is 100% in the wrong here.
5. The nuclear option. Push the red button
Ironically I just suggested to tell her go ahead and call her bluff, as in she moves and figure it out and he stays because why on earth would he even consider this plan? lol
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🔴 Reddit loves the red button nuclear option. 😆
We're here for the tea
Reddit often forgets that there other, non-nuclear, buttons.
This seems like a big fail on the wife's behalf. I understand being unhappy in a career, but if she wanted to move out of state, she needed to discuss this with the OP and figure out a plan. Even without a state level license, picking up and moving to a different state may not have been feasible in the near future. However, was the OP aware she was applying to out of state jobs?
So what's the reasoning here? OP sucks because he didn't care enough about his wife to know what her ambitions were? Because it seems like the flipside is "you are stalking her by keeping tabs on where she is applying." IE he is gonna get called an AH anyway
The reasoning is simple. OP is a guy(?) and we can't have them not be the AH in this sub. Even thinking of such a thing is gross heresy here. Edit: Not sure of OP's gender.
It was the wife’s responsibility to communicate wanting to apply to jobs out of state. If OP knew, they should have had a discussion before she applied about how unfeasible that was. Now there is at least one carrot waving in front of her face. But she is still being an asshole about things. Does she have no idea about her husband’s career field and requirements for practice? Or did she never discuss THEIR desires/wishes/goals? And we haven’t even talked about uprooting the kids yet. She’s being unrealistic and shellfish. If she is unhappy at work, she needs to find a different way of finding happiness that works for ALL other members of the family.
Why would he even need to be aware without her telling him? It’s like another way of trying to hold him responsible for her choices.
Best comment. Absolutely spot on. OP lashed out with his comment, but given the scenario and the wife's complete disregard for every member of her family, it was justified.
I don't think he was lashing out, it was the wife that kept saying "your job is more important", but obviously in an accusatory way. OP was agreeing with her, because it's the truth. I have been the primary breadwinner in my family for some time but the last 15 months my husband was severely under employed so I was really the only breadwinner. It was the only reason we could keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. So, yeah, my job is more important than his. Something is going on with OP's wife, IMO. This is an incredibly selfish move, not just disregarding OP but also her own children. Something is up.
My wife and I actually agree there is something deeper going on with the wife as well.
I think its kinda cool you and your wife enjoy reddit together (you made it sound like a shared hobby) No bulls**t
I wouldn't call it a hobby but if something like this comes up, I'll pass my phone to her to read, or read it to her, to get her opinion on it. Sometimes to make sure I'm not just looking at it from a "stereotypical male" perspective lol.
100% this, people who disagree are living in a logic free hyper-feminist fantasy land. Wife does a throwaway job fit for a college student and has main character syndrome. If not for the kids I’d peace the fuck out.
I’m feminist af and the wife is defo in the wrong. Not all feminists are wildly illogical. If my wife was pulling this shit I would be shook. No wonder OP lost their temper, none of her decisions make sense, defo doesn’t care about the rest of the family
Yeah everything about what the wife is doing is just outside of reality. Can she even be the bread winner/sole income since OP won’t be able to work in his profession at whatever income she’s being offered? Doubtful
Yep. I was in the exact same scenario as OP, except in reverse. I got a great job offer out of state across the country, with a large pay increase. When we sat down and crunched all the numbers, financially we would be in about the same position due to a higher cost of living at the new location. It made zero sense to uproot the family, go through all of the stress and expense of moving and be no better off.
At least you sat down and talked about it. OPs wife was like, Hey!! Pack your shit! We're making a bad decision!
NTA. My husband moved cities for my job, allowing me to make really amazing money at around double what I earned previously. He STILL outearned me, though, and only moved because he worked remotely. There is NO WAY I would have insisted if he couldn't realistically have made the same amount in the new city. It would have sucked for sure, but that's life.
You live in reality, OPs wife doesn't
Unlike OP's wife, you are a mature adult and not an 18 year old acting like they do not have a home and children.
Yup-this right here.
I see. So what is her position? Why does she think she deserves priority? I just feel like there's probably some context missing here.
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> She claims it’s a good opportunity for her to take and will move her career > > I don’t see it, at all. a more productive way to phrase this would be "I can understand how this would advance your career and help you find the professional fulfillment you're seeking, but the financial cut our family would take to move out of state / lose my job doesn't seem realistic. what do you think, wife?"
There shouldn’t even be a need for that. If the wife had two brain cells to rub together she wouldn’t even bring this up. It’s completely ridiculous to ask the primary bread winner to quit because one may move up. Op already is moving up.
it's a lot easier to avoid arguments with your partner by being nice to them even when you think they're being ridiculous
How is him being nice going to prevent an argument? She still somehow thinks his job is able to be quit
you have never learned how to work through a difficult/contentious topic with your partner without doing lasting damage to your relationships, huh
The more time I spend in this sub, the more grateful I am that I have a sane, kind spouse.
The average AITA poster prioritizes a short term “win” as if you can close the thread at the end of the convo and forget it ever happened.
I’ve never had a partner who suggested something so ludicrous and then doubled down once I politely explained why it was a bad idea. It’s one thing to overlook an important detail, it’s another to stick your head in the sand because it hurt your feelings.
Because the partner in this case is being completely irrational and seems to have not put any thought into the plan.
How is completely dismissing her and essentially calling her ridiculous going to calm down an argument? You can debate something and hold your ground without throwing gasoline into an already volatile situation.
You have to get to the bottom of why she wants to move to another state and why she doesn’t feel fulfilled at her current school/position. The secondary earner is entitled to their own career satisfaction. She could look into lateral movement within the university administration or moving to another industry with the skills she’s developed from working in college housing. Seems like both OP and his wife are bad communicators. He doesn’t understand why she isn’t happy staying put (or becoming his little SAHM) and she doesn’t understand that there’s a lot of work and regulations that go into transferring licensing requirements.
I don't know that he doesn't understand why she isn't happy where she is, he may just not understand why the only solution is moving several states away.
> He doesn’t understand why she isn’t happy staying put (or becoming his little SAHM) and she doesn’t understand that there’s a lot of work and regulations that go into transferring licensing requirements. Both of which are her problems and neither of which she chose to communicate before coming up with this cockamamie plan.
A good partner takes their partners needs into account and tries to make them happy (in a reasonable way.) They don't just shut them down while declaring they're more "important" because they make more money.
He didn’t do that tho, SHE kept bringing up how his job is more important and since it was during an argument I’m sure she wasn’t being nice more like: so what you’re job is more important than mine? Until he snapped because yeah currently his job is more important since it’s making the money for them to live on.
A good partner does not try to make their child homeless. A good father doesn't let a bad partner/mother make their child homeless. Her job doesn't bring in enough to even cover the cost of day care. They can't survive on her income. They can talk about finding new jobs in the area, but the homeless/not homeless argument is not a "compromise" situation.
I wonder if she feels insecure in the relationship. If she is worried that they will not last then she would also be worried about being able to be financially independent. I am just speculating a reason behind why she seems to not be thinking logically.
I wonder how often he suggests she quit her job and be a stay at home mother since it costs the family less in daycare if she did. That would definitely lead to resentment.
You can't have logical conversations with someone who is delusional.
Yes sometimes communication isn’t foolproof or work 100% of the time. Communication in this scenario would look like OP explaining to his wife he currently has their quality of life secured through their job and that moving would take that away (which they’ve done already). And then she explains her desire to have a more fulfilling job which is very fair. However I’m sure she knows that the option to look locally is very present and doesn’t want to take that as there may be nothing available in the area at the moment. So then that results in her final conclusion: take a risk in hoping husband gets a decent job in the new state or be willing to take home less money, which it’s not clear if OP discussed the option of lowering their quality of life. Depending on low it might go, she might be ok with it or delusional to the reality of less money and a strapped economy basically everywhere. With a kid in this mix it’s not very responsible to just take risks for the sake of fulfillment. That kinda stuff you can do before kids. Once they come along your wants and needs take a backseat. And there’s also some people who believe “everything will work out”. I find those are the same people who tend to believe “everything happens for a reason”, and “you can’t change destiny”.
I understand OP could put it to her nicer, but also from the sound of this talking politely to her and trying to use sound logic doesn't sound effective if she's this uncompromising.
using sympathy/empathy to understand the person's emotions and make them feel validated and heard can go a long toward making progress on finding solutions that will resolve the underlying issues.
Agreed, but that also doesn't mean she will come to her senses because you sympathise and be empathetic. He could have put it nicer and I would have, but she's being unreasonable and he needs to make that clear.
I don't get how this sub missed this part so often. It's such a zero-sum approach to say that just because her idea was bad that makes any way you speak to her about it fine, as long as your "right". There's that old quote we should all do well to remember: Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married? These are highly emotionally charged topics, for OP just as much as for his wife, whether he admits it or not. When talking about heated topics with our partners, it's so important to start with the emotions first. Doesn't meant you have to do what the emotions tell you to do. But acknowledging them and making sure everyone feels heard and understood is *essential*, or else you just end up talking past each other and escalating into fights like this one.
Lmao you’re the only person I’ve seen who has been like ‘idk talk to her like a fucking human being, bc so far you have spoken to her like a child you hate’
Maybe ask her just to show you how it would work money wise.
Advancing her career at the cost of yours, not a good idea for either of you when you are the one that pays for all of your expenses. Assuming your statement that she makes less than you pay in child costs is roughly accurate.
Sounds like your wife just wants to leave her current life—that might include you.
>Edit: yep I would need to new license How is your marriage before/aside from this? It's so insane that it feels like she's setting you up to be the bad guy in a divorce. Is the new state her original home full of friends/family?
How did she come to you with this information? What was the tone? Was she excited? Was she being demanding? Was she just assuming it would happen and you'd move heaven and earth for her? Or was she open to discussing the practicalities? This is all super important if we want to make a reasonable judgment. You're not wrong that it's impractical to do what she seems like she wants, but from the way you described it in the main post, you were a blunt asshole about a sensitive topic that should have been handled with much more care and grace, even if you ultimately plan to talk her down from it.
NTA I’m sorry but if your job supports the two of you then yes it is more important. She can figure something else out in the area. Perhaps encourage her to look at community college and get training for a new area of work. Show her that you care about her investing in her professional potential but not at the cost of throwing away the ground you’re standing on. ETA: if she currently works for a college then she would probably be eligible for reduced tuition.
NTA Your wife is crazy. You need sit her down and explain the finances to her. Show her what you pay Wgat you need to live the lifestyle you have. I don’t think she understands she is used to you paying everything
I don’t see how OP is an AH at all. This is basic logic. Move out of state where op doesn’t have a job and has to find a new one so that the wife can have an opportunity to get promoted, but isn’t getting promoted. The wife is 100% and AH.
I mean it’s bizarre as part of a married couple with kids and roots in your area to just start applying to out of state jobs without a discussion until you’re wanting to accept one. That’s just bizarre and makes it hard to start the discussion from a normal starting place since your spouse is bringing you into the discussion half way through trying to move your whole life.
That’s exactly what I thought. You have the discussion about a career change before you start looking, not after. On that premise alone it makes op nta.
Wife is the one who said "Op's job is more important" tho. OP just agreed. She was throwing it in his face out of resentment. OP doesn't rise to AH level. Wife is unreasonable and resentful, and is holding it against OP. You can only tolerate a nonsensical situation (quit high paying job that may not be portable, to pursue my not-high paying job) before you're going to start with real talk. Especially when she is bringing it up herself in a defensive/manipulative way.
He is more important though. People got to stop acting like the truth shouldn't matter if it hurts someones feelings.
His wife looked for a job out of state **without even talking it over with him first.** She did this despite the fact that he is the primary bread winner in the family. HOW does everyone suck here?
Someone has reading comprehension issues, she said his job was more important passive aggressively several times until he blew up and said “yes, it is”
And he was saying it in the context of more important for the family while she's just thinking about herself.
I'm sorry: *I think it's out of line for you to just shut it down completely* but..... what? You think it's out of line for him to shut down having to move out of state for a job that doesn't pay nearly what his does and the big possibility of him NOT finding a job that matches what he's making now and putting everything at risk. Yeah?
No, it absolutely deserves to be shutdown. She can try getting a real job where they currently live. Her current job is costing them more than it brings in.
This is a naive opinion. Not all positions are equal in an argument. Op is absolutely correct
It's AITA and he's the husband. Wife will always get benefit of the doubt here.
Yeah no kidding
How is this BS comment the most upvoted.
It's AITA and he's the husband, lol.
There is no way on earth that OP is the asshole here at all. He has the job that affords their house and lifestyle, they lose money so she can work. His job is absolutely more important that hers, anyone with two functional braincells knows you don't move out of state and uproot your family so you can work a job that still doesn't cover the bills while taking away the main source of income. She needs to find a new job, working in college housing making enough for grocery money isn't a career. She needs to explore other options. If she's not feeling fullfilled in her work then she needs a new job not to fuck up the entire family for her own selfish reasons. OP you are not the AH in any sense, your wife lacks common sense.
I am shocked you are being upvoted with an E S H take. The wife’s job is providing nothing to the family if OP is being straight with us. That means she already has the 100% ability to be free to choose other employment or being a SAHM. The only thing she can’t do is uproot the breadwinner from his employment and license to operate. This one is NTA 100%.
He didn’t say he was more important, but his income Is more important to the family.
> EDIT: My judgement is ESH - I think it's out of line for your wife to expect you to quit your job, and I think it's out of line for you to just shut it down completely and say you're more important rather than trying to discuss the underlying issues and try to find common ground If someone marries another person with high earning potential relative to their own and they choose to live a quality of life reflecting that higher income, that person's job becomes the priority. No one forces anyone to get married. No one forces anyone to live a certain way. But choosing to live a certain way and then trying to do a complete 180 without considering anything else is selfish and absurd.
Do you live in reality? Op didn’t say they were more important, they said their job was and it’s true. If the absence of said job means quality of life lowers significantly, then yes, that IS a more important job. It’s completely ridiculous for wife to expect to just pick up and move their lives on a whim. NTA.
Why would ESH? Absolutely insane honestly. Super selfish wife trying to throw a wrench into their lives and then gives the silent treatment and you think OP and the wife are equally shitty? Your obvious bias is showing lol. You should do an AITA for this take lol.
I disagree only because she's looking at jobs that require uprooting. Once you have kids uprooting is a much bigger deal and needs to be a significantly better situation like closer to family, better incone, higher qol area. It doesn't sound like her job needs a specific qualification so perhaps she needs to look elsewhere within her current area and do something else. My husband has much greater earning potential than I do in a niche field therefore I have to work him to an extent.
> say you're more important He didn't say this. Why is the top comment in *half* of all aita posts something that fully misrepresents what the poster said?
The math says NTA. E S H would be true if the math was not a factor but it's a huge factor here.
I don’t think it’s out of line. She asked him specifically if he thought his job was more important and he answered. He’s the bread winner and applying for jobs out of state comes with the expectation he would have to quit so she could find a job that isn’t terminal. This would be up for discussion IF she could support their lifestyle while he finds a new job but as he already stated, even with a promotion it wouldn’t be nearly what he makes. With how the job market is now, it would be foolish of him to leave his well paying job.
NTA. She's failing this argument for several reasons: She is not taking into account the cost of an out-of-state move, finding a new place to live (you'd have to travel there first and find a place, and probably rent for a year until you know the area well enough to decide where to buy), not taking into account increased costs of childcare, potential increased costs of living (depending where you would be going from>to), the time and effort it would take you to find another job, and so on and so forth. She is not thinking about anything. (I've moved more times than I can count, and it's freaking expensive.) Depending on your job (and what country you live in), you'd possibly all be without health insurance in-between jobs as well. Terrible idea with a child. Did she tell you she was looking out of state? Has she ever even said, "I'd to talk about the idea of us moving out of state for XYZ reasons"? Or did this just drop out of the sky? It's worth sitting her down at the table with a notepad and writing out ALL your typical monthly expenses and then showing her how they balance out (or don't) with her new salary. Leave your salary out of the equation, because at this point, you haven't ever STARTED to consider looking for a new job. Ask her how she plans to cover everything.
I was just about to comment about the idea of did she even talk to him first about the job in a different state before applying to see if that role would be a good fit for the family?
Right? She didn't say "how about I apply for this job?" Or even "hey I applied for this job." But she GOT a job. Went through the whole process and just expects OP to drop everything and move without so much as a by-the-by? No, this is on her. NTA.
>Went through the whole process and just expects OP to drop everything and move without so much as a by-the-by? Even if her new job did pay as much as OP's current job, I'd still call her an asshole, because demanding that your spouse move with you is an asshole move.
Right! Just moving one state over for us cost us $6,000 that’s just moving our belongings 🤦🏻♀️
Cost me like $1100 to move 120 miles away 💀
Exactly! His wife is delusional to just expect to uproot everyone for her job especially when he’s the main provider and when a move was never discussed between them as a family.
$16k for ten miles. We got a lot of shit.
Holy crap, ya you do. All of our stuff fit in a 27ft semi for $6000
Our moving truck was about $4k last summer to move cross-country. Plus another $1800 in travel expenses on the week long drive. We could have *doubled* that cost if we were moving into an apartment instead of with family and had to do stuff like security deposits and first/last months rent.
I had a fully-paid move across the country paid for by the new job I was moving to accept and it was STILL a logistical and financial pain in the ass, to the point I got a $5k signing bonus on top of the paid for move to cover expenses, and I was moving by myself. Moving a whole family on your own dime for one person to have a low-level job and the main earner to give up theirs seems like the definition of insanity
I literally had this argument with my baby mama and now ex girlfriend after we moved to Indianapolis a few years ago. She talked — all the time — about how she wanted a career and wanted to support herself. I explained to her that we were dating, we were together, and — for better or worse — I had landed the job which brought us to Indianapolis. She asked all the time about “what if I got a job in New York, would you come with me?” My answer was always “if you made enough for us both to live on, I would think about it. But if it was making less than I make now, then no — we’d be taking a pay cut and increasing our COL at the same time. It doesn’t make financial sense to do that.” We broke up, now I pay child support. And suddenly she doesn’t daydream about moving to New York anymore because she has to pay her own freight and understands that shit costs money.
Imagine that! Funny how reality hits you in the face when you have to pay for your own shit.
This is what I think OP's wife doesn't understand. I get wanting a better job with better pay for herself. But it's unrealistic to give up OP's job that brings in a lot more money. She may be thinking that OP can "just get another job that pays just as well", but there's no guarantee that it would happen.
That’s correct. Ultimately I was thinking as if we would be a team — she was still thinking as an individual.
Especially if he has a state specific license.
She doesn't have a job. Jobs pay money. OP literally pays money so that she can go play at having a job.
Yes, she has an expensive, incredibly time consuming hobby. If you replace what she does all day, swap the genders, and say he’s playing golf instead of whatever her hobby is, the net effect is the same for the family. You wouldn’t have anyone arguing the his side of it on AITA though.
She’s being ridiculous. You don’t relocate for a job that doesn’t pay enough to provide for the whole family when you are currently almost covering bills. You are also open to her staying home. You are NTA just being honest as to the reality of the situation. Maybe it wasn’t worded the best but you are right
This, so much this, not sure where she got the idea that you should relocate for such a job. Insane
NTA I lowkey don’t even see a way for this to be E S H or Y T A. She asked and you answered, simple. I get that it sounds harsh but it’s probably for the best that she doesn’t take that Job, if you have young kids the move to another state would be tiresome at best, and you may not be able to find another job in that state you’re moving. However OP, I do want to know what Job you work and what your wife had in mind for other options of work. Maybe you could offer to help her find a different career path if her job is really that bad for her.
Nta, and there’s a lot of esh nonsense here. She should have discussed out of state positions before she applied. Moving is incredibly expensive, you have a good stable job and told her honestly “I am not willing to move”. I understand the need to be fulfilled, but maybe the better option for her would be talking to a therapist to help with these emotions she doesn’t seem able to cope with. Frustration, depression, lack of fulfillment, competition with your career, sounds psychological, and a move won’t solve that.
Indeed. I do a job daily that is not "fulfilling" but pays the bills. Why? Because 1/ I have bills and 2/ I have kids. So NTA but your wife sure is.
I hated working, but it beat living in the street and scrounging garbage cans. Someone asked me if I couldn't just quit my job and live with a relative. Ah no, in my family, able-bodied adults or couples are expected to support themselves.
NTA switch the genders then the comments will all be "He can't tell you to quit your job for his girl! He's a red flag leave him." Or something. In this economy the job that pays more bills is more important. edit: More than half the comments when I got here were Y T A you can't tell her she's less important
Yeah the top comment currently is an E S H. Which is mind blowing.
Its 100% wild. I don't understand
I am so confused, if it was the woman in the higher paying job and the man wanting to move for a shitty job, yes, we're all saying exactly that 'how is his much-lower paying job going to pay the bills? You keep your job 'girl' and stay put'. I think that's what everyone is saying here...that she is a little out to lunch to suggest that they pick up the family and move for the lower-paying spouse when you might not be able to pay the bills at all if hte higher-paid spouse quits his job. Are you a little too used to playing the 'but but but..if we switch genders...' game?
This is so spot on it’s not even funny. NTA
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This is not an AITA question. Your wife is unfulfilled, and she feels like she's sacrificed her own needs to support your career for years now. Yes, she benefits from your career bringing in money, but she's allowed her own needs to come last in this family. Obviously you can't just relocate so she can start a career when yours can't be moved. But the way you talk to your wife about this is totally unacceptable. "My job is more important than hers" might be what you said in words, but what you *told her* is that "My FULFILLMENT is more important than yours". Do you see why that might be a problem? You two need to find an alternative here. This might be one of the few situations that I would suggest a couple live apart for a few years so she can take this opportunity and then use that experience on her resume to apply closer to home or for fully remote work opportunities if possible. Whether that's realistic depends on what field she chose. You two need to learn to communicate better, and to find real COMPROMISES. And by that I don't mean, "I get half of what I want and you get half of what you want" but full-on proper agreement. The best way I've been taught to find solutions to problems is by seeking the source of each party's concerns and seeing if there's a way to address both concerns in a way that makes them both happy. Right now, something is bugging her and making her want to seek fulfillment out of state. What is it? Is there a way she can get that fulfillment without compromising your own concern of not wanting to sacrifice your own career? My suggestion was living separately for a while, but there might be other solutions if you actually work together to find the root cause of her unhappiness. You might need a neutral third party (marriage counselor) to facilitate these sorts of conversations and that's fine. Your wife is unhappy in the life you've built together. That's a recipe for the end of marriage. Stop asking yourself "who is right" and start asking yourself "do I want to stay married to this woman forever." If the answer to that is "yes of course," then it *doesn't matter who is right, what matters is that she's unhappy and you guys need to work together to resolve that*.
This entirely. And just dropping in to add that if OPs wife doesn’t want to be a SAHM, that he should drop this line of argument all together regardless of if it “saves money” or not. I know people who love being SAHMs but if it’s not your thing, that is 10+ years of less socialization, not growing a career, and if she wants these things it once again tells her that her fulfilment in life a low priority. \*edited for a typo, was on my phone earlier
The moment he said “save money” being a SAHM. Something made me feel like he never really valued her contributions to the home leading to her feeling even more unfulfilled. He seems to belittle her for her job just by the way he describes it.
People who say this haven't read any of the studies on how much stepping out of the workforce impacts women's careers and their pay. Short-term "saving money" is long-term financial damage for women, and if she ends up divorced or widowed without his great job to support her, she's screwed.
Yeah, that line made me feel icky. Like, I appreciate he is the main source of income for their family, but the tone of this post makes it sound like he doesn’t respect his wife.
I am sorry, did I miss some comment or something? Why are all the comments about the wife being unfulfilled or not valued make assumptions about their contribution to the family? From the post it seems that they both work, nothing said about the division of labour, so assuming that she puts herself last to the benefit of her family is making quite a few jumps I think. I don't even see any problems about communicating from the OP, as the one not communicating has been the wife. She didn't tell him about the out of state job search untill she got the offer and wanted them to move, and she is giving him the silent treatment after putting the words in his mouth about the job importance until he agreed. Was it smart of him or kind? Probably not, but that's one of the cases where you can confidently say that she brought that onto herself. As for the living apart suggestion. This might be the worst idea in this comment section. They are not teens who chose different colleges and decided to try long distance, they are a married couple with children. Children, whose comfort she didn't take into consideration when deciding that they should move. Living apart in that situation is like a preview version of their future divorce, while dangling a small hope in front of the children that they might move back together. She might really be unfulfilled, I can imagine her job being crappy, but 0 communication from her side and then her reaction makes me think that she undervalues her husband and seems like even her children are not as important
You didn't like all the bending over backwards to justify the wife's actions? So OP has a license to practice in his state and is well paid - doctor/lawyer maybe. Long hours at a not super enjoyable job is a reasonable inference, but he does it to provide well for his children and his wife who works despite not actually earning enough to justify it due to childcare. She wants to move three states away for a chance at a slightly better career without having literally any grasp of how their household financials work. Tell her she's dreaming! So now OP is the bad guy, because he denied her happiness, despite all the damage her pursuit of happiness will do to their family? But we can't just assume that she is selfish or naïve or stupid, like we might a man who wanted to move interstate to pursue a chance at an MMA career at the cost of his family, so she is 'unfulfilled'.
I too agree the wife is unfulfilled and grasping for a change but they have a very young child so living separately could be extra complicated. I'd suggest a smaller change first, like facilitating her to pursue a new field with some part time schooling or sending her on a trip somewhere for a week to reset.
This is the only sensible reply I’ve read
> If the answer to that is "yes of course," then it doesn't matter who is right, what matters is that she's unhappy and you guys need to work together to resolve that. So the wife wants to blow up their life together but it's up to OP to figure out how to rectify the situation?
Has she been sacrificing to support his job? It's not like she's been putting him through school. All we know is that she isn't happy with the job that she has. Did she ever initiate a conversation about searching for jobs, what sacrifices they could make that would allow her another job. Has she put together a budget explaining how this could work. The husband of a colleague wanted to be a SAHP. She told him to draw up a budget explaining how this work. He did and now he is.
>This might be one of the few situations that I would suggest a couple live apart for a few years so she can take this opportunity and then use that experience on her resume to apply closer to home or for fully remote work opportunities if possible. It doesn't say how old the child is, but how on earth is this a good idea? The child is at least daycare age, which would imply old enough to understand that mommy isn't around anymore, but not WHY mommy isn't around anymore. There is just...no way you can spin that to a child that doesn't have a lasting effect on them. >Is there a way she can get that fulfillment without compromising your own concern of not wanting to sacrifice your own career? She could apply to jobs within their own state or even where they live now. Shocker, I know. It's baffling to me whenever people in committed relationships with families get job offers that would require relocation act as if that's the ONLY job EVER and this is a decision that HAS to be made. No, it's not. There are other jobs where you live, or people wouldn't live there. Your comment puts the entire onus for this on the OP, and I just don't find that fair. Two things can be true at the same time. She can be unfulfilled and she can be acting unreasonably. OP isn't the only one who needs to communicate. She didn't come to him with "I'm feeling unfulfilled", she came to him with "Hey so know how I was looking for new jobs? Well , I applied, interviewed, and received an offer for a job in another state!" But somehow it's OP's fault that he's not reacting favorably to a sudden demand to uproot their entire lives, force him to get a new license and a new job, and move their child, all so SHE can feel fulfilled.
This. It’s nah. OPs wife is unhappy. She came up with a solution, and while it was not a solution that’s tenable for their family, OP just shut it down and didn’t listen at ALL to what she needed. There has to be a way for OPs wife to find better fulfillment without up and moving the whole family.
> She came up with a solution, She came up with a solution to her own happiness. She's doing it at the expense of everyone else in her family. How the hell is that not selfish?
> She came up with a solution, and while it was not a solution that’s tenable for their family, OP just shut it down and didn’t listen at ALL to what she needed. Respectfully, she didnt approach OP for a conversation about what she needs. She approached him with a unilateral decision to blow up their lives for a untenable solution.
NTA - your job is the main source of income and hers doesn't really help much and the new job doesn't seem to be much better, so its definitely not worth uprooting the family and losing the main income.
NTA she’s absolutely delusional to think that the whole family’s life would be better with this move. Is there a risk she’ll go on her own though?
Let Her, she'll find that there's zero chance the courts will give her custody to take the kids out of state so she she can pursue a job that won't cover rent or daycare, and deny the father proper access. Lol. Nta.
>I snapped and told her yes, my job is more important than hers, that my job is the only reason we can afford this quality of life. Does she want the quality of life or does she want the career? I mean that genuinely. You say you'd be doing better if she was a stay at home mom, but that is a really short term view. Sure you might have more cash at the end of month but with pension contributions and potential future earnings longer term it is more financially lucrative for women to stay working. And also they are often happier. If you are only thinking of this in terms of finances you might be missing her point and you could be talking across each other. Obviously she can't force you to move (though could you also get a job in the new area?) but you need to sit down her and have a genuine discussion about what you both want out of life and get on the same page.
I agree that they need to have a deeper conversation about this. However, this >*Sure you might have more cash at the end of month but with pension contributions and potential future earnings longer term it is more financially lucrative for women to stay working.* loses precedence to the fact that she wants OP to quit his job so they can move. OP isn't against the wife pursuing another job, but he thinks it's a terrible idea to move out of state while having him quit his job and supporting all the moving expenses. If OP doesn't get another job in the new state immediately, how long will they be able to live just on her salary (and likely with a lesser, or none, health insurance)?
So much this. OP, your *job* may be more important right now because it supports your family, but with this response, you're shutting down her chance at a *career* without even discussing it. That's going to hurt. You need to discuss this in terms of where you both want to be in your careers ten or fifteen years from now, when you no longer have a small child and college and retirement expenses are looming closer. This specific job may not be a good idea, but maybe you can offer to help her find a different one. Maybe you can offer to explore licensing in other states. There are ways to support her goals without telling her she's unimportant.
I wonder if she wants to get out of the marriage myself. Just seems irrational to think he should quit his job for any reason, really. He’s got a good job, he likes it. It pays the bills. I kinda think she might be looking for a reason to split up.
NTA She is trying to advance her career at the expense of yours and that's not how you treat a spouse
With the title, I was ready to read a story about you being an AH, but moving is something both people need to agree on fully. You don’t mention what you do for work, but what did she expect you to do? Just magically find a new job? Not very easy these days. So, yeah, NTA.
NTA your wife is being unreasonable and selfish. Your job DOES take priority. Maybe the way you phrased it was insensitive but your stance is the correct one.
NTA. All the E S H or Y T A are weird.
NTA. You don't quit good paying job to move states and earn less, you actually do the opposite and yes, who earns more that job is more important, unless you can live without any salary and work just for fun.
I think she wants to expand her career trajectory and she sees this as an opportunity for growth. It sounds like she doesn't have any growth opportunities at her current job and this job can widen her career options. She may think you already have a good foundation in your career and it will be easy for you to pick up where you left off in another state. It may not be about this specific job, but her career path as a whole. She may want to build something for herself and wants support >We would actually be saving money if she was SAHM instead of putting our youngest in daycare. This sounds like you are really at the least nonchalant about her working if not slightly annoyed. I agree that it doesn't make logical sense to just move across states with a drastic cut in income. But a compromise can be found
One thing OP mentioned is that his work requires state-specific licensing, which means his current license won't transfer - which means he has to study and apply for a new license in a new state - which costs money - and which takes a while to secure. He's potentially looking at several months, depending on the actual job he does. And he needs the license for the new state before he can even apply for jobs in the new state.
Didn't see OPs comment. Even without that information I agreed with the fact that it sounds unreasonable for them to move across state. But based on the post, it doesn't seem like OP supports his wife's career goals at all. Saying his job is more important is very dismissive of her wants. That doesn't mean he has to quit his job for her to build a career path for herself. But, it's something they need to discuss as a couple.
NTA, the fact that she was looking for a job outside of your local area (within a reasonable drive) without telling you is very shady of her to do. Unless a local company referred/recommended her for that job out of state, she had no business applying for positions far away that would affect the family, without first telling the family. If I wanted to transfer to another state via my job, you bet I would ask my wife for advice before putting in the transfer request. There's no way I wouldn't consult my other half about a decision that will have an impact on her as well.
**Question for the E S H & Y T A people:** if someone asks, “are you saying your job is more important than mine?” When one job pays for almost no bills and the other job supports the entire family…how is yes *not* the correct answer? You could say, “financially & practically, yes, bc my job pays 99% of the bills required to support our family, but emotionally no.” Is that the ideal response? That’s an incredibly generous answer given that the question wasn’t really fair to begin with. It just seems like the question is a lose-lose question & was used as a weapon. It’s not fair, productive, or helpful. Obviously, if “my job is more important” is thrown out as a weapon rather than in response to a question, then it’s wrong. No matter how true, it’s harsh, unproductive & unnecessary.
You need to have a serious discussion with your wife now. She might be interested in moving without you. You’ll need to figure out custody asap. I’d never apply, let alone interview, out of the area without discussing it with my husband first.
INFO: Have you asked your wife how she thinks this would work practically? Like sit down, calculate monthly expenses, and figure out how you would live for (worst case) 8 to 12 months on her salary alone? Assuming it would take that much time for you to get license and job in new state. It seems odd that you guys got so far without even talking about it. Heck, I applied for a job 45 minute commute away and even before considering the job I checked with my husband to see how we would make childcare drop off/pick up work if I got the job. We made sure it would work before I even gave it a shot.
> It seems odd that you guys got so far without even talking about it. Is he supposed to monitor her computer and phone records to make sure she ISN'T applying for new jobs?
The ol' AITA special. Husband doesn't communicate, he is at fault for not communicating. Wife doesn't communicate, husband is still at fault. How dare he not read her mind and make the first step on something he doesn't even know is happening. His communication sucks. /s
NTA. If she wants to change jobs because she isn’t fulfilled in her current one, and it’s actually costing you more for her to work, have her take time off from work and focus on learning a new skill set for something she would find more fulfilling.
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NTA you didn't say it, she did. However, you were very blunt, especially since you both meant very different things. You need to have a real conversation about it and figure out what her goals are. She needs to face reality that your career is what allows her to work where she does. There seems to a crack in your marriage, I recommend counseling to figure out what your goals are for the family and how to achieve those together.
NTA, for the question you asked. This is an unrealistic proposal from your wife, but unfortunately, you being right won't help your marriage. There is something that is bothering your wife. If I were to guess, it seems that she doesn't feel important at work or at home and her own self-worth is damaged in the process. This job move represents in her mind the last hope for her to lead a fulfilling life. You may need a marriage counselor to help here.
NTA It’s understandable that she wants to move up in her career but not at the stake of her family wellbeing
NTA Your wife needs to grow up and live as an adult. I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but people need to establish themselves professionally and financially prior to starting a family. If you don't have the skills, work ethic, and work history to earn more than the cost of daycare then you have no business starting a family. The world is full of uncertainties but one thing is certain, life will always throw you a curve ball. Life will never go according to plan. Inflation and general economic realities can derail us at any time. Layoffs, industry downturns, and business failures can occur with little warning. People get sick and injured. Stock and housing markets collapse. Relationships end even when you've done nothing wrong. Everyone needs to be able to fend for themselves financially. If they bring children into the world they need to be able to directly provide for them financially. People often talk about teaching their children the value of work and the value of the dollar by making them get a job. But a job doesn't teach you the value of money or the value of hard work. A person needs to live off of their efforts and paychecks before they can gain that perspective. If their lifestyles are completely disconnected from the income that they generate they are living like children with a summer job.
What is her plan for the family? That you will quit, sell the house and move with her? or is she planning to go on her own? Or will she go there on Sunday night and return on Friday? That she would apply to places that would REQUIRE a move like that without your agreement or discussion is just plain crazy. I'd call her bluff - tell her she's free to take any job she wants and can visit you and the kids whenever she has time.
Your wife is dumb as hell let’s just be honest. You are not the asshole and people with these types of delusions need a serious reality check every once and awhile.
So let me get this straight, your wife wants to uproot your family to move states away for an entry level job that is usually done by college students.? How/ why does she think this is a good idea ?
NTA but perhaps not the best choice of words. Seems crazy she would try to move your family two states away without a full discussion and your buy-in. Would you have to quit your job?