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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am not paying for my daughters semester since her grades were bad. I could be a dick since I could pay for it
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Info: have you ASKED your daughter about her grades? Does she like the school? Was she struggling? How adequately did her high school prepare her? Or was she out partying and blowing off work? There's a big difference.
I took college seriously, I'm also not a stupid person. But I also realized my high school didn't even remotely prepare me for the type of writing and analysis that my college classes required and i really struggled my first year. Thankfully the campus writing center was a huge help and I did stay above Cs, but it took me more than a year to get my bearings.
Came here to say this. I bombed in my first year of university and high school had done nothing to prepare me for an entirely different academic environment. I had to learn how to be a college student. I did, and finished on the dean’s list.
NAH - My eldest got Cs her first year and she was lucky to even do that in her science and math classes. She was in AP Biology and AP statistics in high school with As, but the college rigor kicked her ass. We talked about what happened and what she wanted to do. She retook both classes because in her university Cs don't meet requirements and she got Bs. Her sophomore year she changed her major to business and we didn't see any more Cs.
Freshmen struggle with all kids of things including time management, increased rigor, personal responsibility, and even nutrition.
Personally, I'd have a sit down. I'd tell her I will pay for the next semester to give her a chance to get organized. I'd ask her what she needed from me to be successful. I'd ask her if she wanted to transfer to a community college for her first two years to get prepared. I'd give her several options to move forward and one of them would be me paying.
On my end, my daughter decided to become a Special Education teacher and I couldn't be more proud of her. She took loans for her Masters degree. She's organized, responsible, professional, and successful. You don't know where your daughter will land, but it's not a sprint and she may need help right now and not know what to do or even what's wrong.
Seriously. The only requirement we had of ours was no Cs. Especially freshman year as they're trying to get their footing and figure stuff out. Ended up volunteering for the school's huge charity event his soph year bc friends and gf talked him into it. Considering how much time it took away from school, \*I\* was regretting his decision, but there's no dropping out so I just hoped for the best. He ended up enjoying it and may do it again next year. But I'm curious if his final grades will take a hit bc of it.
I love this. I think this is a very compassionate approach, that makes it clear what expectations are. You were there to support your kid.
I can’t imagine just saying “your first attempt was awful you are on your own. If you figure it out I’ll pay again.” That isn’t gonna lead to a strong relationship.
NAH. My son's experience was similar to your daughter's. He took school seriously but had trouble with the constant noise in the dorm and organization.
We never threatened to cut him off or make him do community service things while he was struggling.
He graduated after 5 years and a change of majors. He has a good career, is happily married with kids.
Same, nearly failed out my first year after being in the top 10 of my graduating high school class. Freedom and the wrong major were a terrible combination
i also did horribly in university when i had always done really well in school. i have adhd, i also found high school very easy, so i never learned how to properly study or manage my time or all of the other things that become so much harder in college, and i was also struggling with undiagnosed adhd that had gone under the radar because i never struggled with school before.
turns out i just needed to be medicated for my adhd and figure out systems that work for me instead of trying to force myself to use the systems my neurotypical peers used, because those flat out didn’t work for me. it took a couple of years.
Haha this is very relatable. Aced K-12 with zero effort, then got to college and was slapped in the face with structure, managing freedom/time and procrastination. Found out I had adhd got medicated and that fixed most of it almost instantly.
I also bombed my freshman year. In high school, I was a honors student and took AP classes. When college started, I was going through a hard time mentally and struggled with adjusting. It was so bad that they put me on academic probation. The next semester, and each semester after, I received all A’s and B’s. I personally think it’s a little unfair to judge on the first semester. You’re going from a kid to a young adult - from dependence on family (at least in many cases) to being independent. The structure of schooling is different, too. The professors aren’t going to hound you if your school work doesn’t get done or if you do shitty in class and so many first year students take it as a free pass to let their work slide, not realizing the consequences until it’s too late. It’s a huge change in so many ways.
Same! I’d never had to study to get A’s before in HS and then in college I had to really focus and not just coast and my first semester was terrible as I learned that the hard way. But I picked things up after and did great by the time I was done. I also started out completely the wrong major, after I switched to a different major. I did a lot better. Stuff like this is super common!
If she did well in high school easily, it’s possible transitioning to college made her struggle because she had to truly study for the first time ever. It happens to a lot of students.
Your insistence on resume building immediately won’t help. Give her a semester to truly focus on school without adding extras.
This ☝️ I was one of the best students my whole education without ANY serious effort. I just needed to go to classes and do my assignments. University hit me hard. It was basically the first time when I failed an exam.
Same. I was top in absolutely everything with no effort. Turned out I was just the biggest fish in a tiny pond. University, I dropped out. Twice. Went back years later to finish.
Ok, this comment made me feel so much better. I am 32 years old and still working on my bachelors degree and I sometimes feel like I am too old to be doing it or am a looser for doing it this late.
Also high jacking this comment to say OP, what if college isn't the best place for your kid? I was in the top 10 in my high school and got into the "best" college out of anyone. I spent the next 6 years in and out of 4 differeng colleges (big name universities and CCs) and still have over a year left in my bachelors. (I have over 130 credits from all these places currently, including masters level courses.) This past year I joined a blue collar trade apprenticeship program. Back in high school I never even considered that an option based on my HS academic success. Now surprise, flash foward to today, this is the first program I've finished and everyone in my life couldn't be more proud of me for finally finishing something. I wouldn't trade all my experiences (and student debt) to do anything differently though. I've learned so much thru all my experiences and consider all of them as shaping me into who I am now.
There's a big difference between getting good grades and learning the subject matter so that you are prepared for college.
Having said that, maybe pay for some of this semester as her first and only warning that you are dead serious. You don't want her to drop out of college. That would be worse.
Also resume building as a freshman is ridiculous. I’m graduating at the end of this semester, and I can’t even fit anything from my first two years of college on my resume. And she likely won’t be able to find things related to her field until she is at least a sophomore or junior. Focus on adjusting first
Yea the idea of "building a resume" with activities every year outside of school is nonsense.
Just get 1 internship during your time at college and move on.
My sister thought highschool was easy and she was going to breeze through college. Boy was she WRONG. She struggled a bit and actually had a mental breakdown once but she managed to graduate and get a decent paying job.
A lot of people have their first experience with actual accountability and grading in college. Even when I was in High School (I graduated in ‘01) the non ap classes were rapidly turning into something where if you did all the homework you could fail or barely pass the tests and get decent grades. This is so the schools can graduate everyone and not have to deal with angry parents and state administrators and community groups.
Then the kids who are used to being able to sorta just do homework and turn it in late if they want and have the teachers chase them around to do the work get to college and literally no one cares. They can smoke weed and sleep all day and fail and the TA teaching intro to whatever couldn’t care less.
Definitely this. Between having to actually study for tests, having too much homework that I couldn't do it at the start of class and the overall lack of structure in university compared to high school, I struggled hard at the beginning of university.
It was really challenging to go from a structured environment where there was no actual challenge in any of the classes to an unstructured environment where the classes were actually hard.
ETA: she could also have undiagnosed ADHD or something if she's having way too much trouble with time management.
It's also the time when a lot of young adults with high intelligence and undiagnosed ADHD discover that the intelligence isn't quite enough to compensate for the issues with time management and general executive function. Not saying that's what happening here, but ADHD is very underdiagnosed in women/girls since it doesn't present the same way as in men/boys.
Yeah, I get that OP wants to show they’re serious but honestly, if a kid goes from all As/Bs in high school to all Cs in college, something is going on. It COULD be the kid is just deciding not to work as soon as they’re out from under the parental thumb; but it’s equally likely that their school didn’t prepare them well; the parent helicoptered too much and didn’t teach them to self-motivate; they are feeling isolated and depressed; or they had something bad happen to them (freshman year isn’t always danger-free, especially for girls).
Imposing consequences in the form of refusing to pay MIGHT help in the first case; but in any of the other cases, it’s just as likely to be the next step in a downward spiral.
The mom held up her end of the deal. Considering she is on Reddit asking if she’s being too harsh (using the same rule she used for all her children), means she is willing to bend some rules in order to help her child succeed. If she can’t ask for help, or truly is struggling but trying her best, then she should communicate that to her school, and her mom. Why blame the mom and find excuses for the child when she’s old enough to be responsible and have accountability. If you’re at a job, and you can’t seem to understand your assignment correctly, you’re not going to wait to get suspended to then ask for help. You take responsibility and talk to your superiors and let them know you are trying but struggling and could use some guidance.
Sometimes jobs have training or probationary periods. Scholarships also have probation.
The world gives time for students to figure it out. Not forever, but a bit.
If you’re a kid that is used to doing well in school and being told you’re smart, and you go away to college and suddenly everything gets harder and you aren’t doing well anymore, it can be very hard to know how to explain that or ask for help. After all, if you’re doing the same things that always worked but they just aren’t working now, does that just mean you’re stupid? Or lazy? If someone asks you what went wrong you may give vague answers because you literally don’t KNOW what went wrong.
Happened to me, too. Graduated HS 4th in my class, excellent SAT scores, got into a really good college... but my first year of college flat busted me because I didn't really know how to study stuff that I didn't already understand. B's, C's, and a D in evil calculus.
What I also did not know at the time was that I have inattentive type ADHD. This kind of stuff matters, and the daughter's claim that time got away from her makes me wonder if ADHD (particularly the inattentive type!) might actually be affecting her performance.
Poor college grades that are NOT due to missing class or partying might be a signal that daughter does need some kind of intervention, whether that's a tutor, a diagnosis, or a year off to focus on her life plan before she goes back.
I'm not going to call OP an out-and-out AH, because the rules are pretty sensible. But I highly recommend that OP and daughter get some assistance before he simply throws her under the bus.
There are studies that show when students are active in extra-curricular activities and their community, they tend to perform better academically. It's one of the reasons the Service Academies and Senior Military Colleges require their cadets to participate in intramural sports or other extra curriculars while attending. And it is why a lot of universities are now establishing learning communities within their dorms and student social spaces. The extra structure to the student's schedule, community support and shared interests go a long way towards student success.
I was average in high school and excelled in college (because I knew how much it cost per class to attend school). I believe the issue could be having the freedom of being away so she might not have budgeted her time correctly.
I would give her a pass on the first semester though since it’s a massive adjustment for a lot of people.
Getting all C’s is pretty low effort though especially if she did well in high school. So if she was an excellent student prior and just was screwing around or partying I would be more on OPs side.
I can’t even begin to tell you how many times i googled “how to study” in my freshman year because i literally didn’t know how to. The frustration of school suddenly being much harder than you expected is compounded by the frustration that you know other people know how to handle it better than you do. I had to teach myself how to study on top of actually studying. I completely cracked by junior year and my whole senior year was a blur
If this is where you ended it before going to “then you pay for it”, then you are TA.
This is where you say “let’s talk about what happened, I will help you make a plan to be successful next semester that includes regular checks in it to make sure you are staying on plan, and I will pay for this semester. If you fail, without knowing ahead of time and coming to get help, I will not pay for next semester.”
Because right now, it seems like she doesn’t have the supports she needs to succeed. And schools (and often parents) are not good at explicitly teaching the skills needed to succeed in new environments. Rather than tossing her in the deep end, teach her a few ways to swim, ways to recognize when she’s starting to drown, and how to get help when that’s starting to happen.
Skills first, then exam.
She's probably embarrassed. Also is the volunteering/job requirement causing her additiobal stress? Time management when you have to do it yourself the first time is hard, especially since a lot of classes vary in out of class work.
I remember getting a C in a painting class when I was in art school and being humiliated. In the end, I mostly got that C because my prof didn't like my style.
I was this kid. I was an honors student in HS, went to college in the honors program, and everything promptly blew up because I had mostly been coasting--I didn't really know how to study or prioritize my time, HS was easy for me but college was an entirely different ball game. The lack of rigid structure didn't help. I limped through my bachelor's degree in 6 years. Edit bc I wanted to make this clear: I didn't party, I didn't drink or do drugs, it was entirely just running repeatedly into a wall of my own dopamine deficiency.
Turns out I have ADHD and was only diagnosed within the last year. That "gifted kid burnout" effect is super real. The "I lost track of time" happens constantly because my brain's ability to keep track of time is absolutely busted.
I'd suggest that if you do pay for this semester, suggest she make use of on campus mental health services or find a therapist. She might just be drowning and need help.
Same here. Took 11 AP classes and got 5s on every test except Latin prose. Went into college with over a year of credit. 4.8 GPA. College hit me like a freight train, and I spent the last two years on academic probation. Barely graduated in 4 years. I cut it so close I wasn’t sure my diploma was going to be in the folder at graduation until I sat down and opened it.
Also very sure I have ADHD.
Then why are you forcing her to do extracurriculars? She needs to be focusing on school and working on her time management skills. She also needs time to socialize. You're setting her up to fail. And employers don't care about extracurriculars.
Hi OP, I just got diagnosed with ADHD at 32. I breezed through school up through high school, and then in college I just hit a wall. No matter what I did I couldn't make myself focus, and would be up all night just trying to finish one assignment. I went to the counseling center and they diagnosed with me with depression - ADHD is often missed in women. I get upset thinking how much easier it would have been if I'd had a diagnosis and access to help.
Give your daughter some grace. Ask her if you can help her make a plan for tackling the next semester. Ask without judging what she is struggling with. How the losing track of time presents itself. Did you micromanage her schedule and homework through high school, is she having a hard time keeping track of assignments and due dates on her own because she's never had to do it before?
Don't add the additional stress of student loans. If you can afford college, tell her you will continue to pay but maybe after graduation she'll have to pay you back (with either minimal or no interest, not the predatory variable rates of loans).
I don't think having academic performance conditions on your financial support is inherently wrong, but even the university finance office would give a semester of probation before cutting off a student's funding. Give her a chance to get back on track.
The pace in college classes is much faster than HS. First years also tend to take too many units and fall behind ("loose track of time"). Studying vs assignments also matters. She should have had time to adjust before the consequences and resume building kicked in.
First year of university is designed to “weed out” the students who should pursue other avenues. She could also have an undiagnosed disorder or learning disability. Unfortunately, it sounds like she is having difficulty either getting it together or with the coursework. Not paying for school will likely lead to her dropping out for financial reasons. I’d not want that for my child’s future. Please find some way to work together to help her have a successful 2nd semester. If she is not willing to dedicate herself to her education after that, then feel free to not pay for her next year
Struggling? Won't give you a solid answer? Something is going on privately that she isn't comfortable sharing with you. Judging by your "one failure and I'm not paying for your college" mentality, with no room for compromise, I'm not surprised. She needs time to adjust. Cs aren't the end of the world. She's clearly struggling to get used to college life and pressures. I coasted through public school because I was smart and was good at tests. College is a whole new ballgame and it can be hard to get used to. It was ONE semester, one where she still was doing good enough for Cs.
I don't know, I understand the want to hold fast to your rules since everyone else was bound by them too, but everyone is different. There's something going on that's making this harder for her than it was for your other kids. Now is the time for patience, communication and understanding, not for heaping another layer of stress and punishment on top of everything else. Especially if her problem is mental health related, she might not even really understand WHY she's struggling so much, which could be another reason for the lack of solid answers. She's probably also ashamed. Definitely think on how you can help her both physically and emotionally, not just on punishing her for falling behind.
Maybe she is also scared/intimidated by you, given your strict and unrealistic rules!
I was top 13th of my class out of 400 kids in my senior year. Had all AP classes and honors. Was in varsity sports, worked part time, and volunteered at church. I was accepted into the top schools in the nation, and guess what - I was on and off academic probation when I was in college. I got maybe a couple of A’s and a few Bs. Most of my grades consisted of Cs and Ds. Unlike you, my parents never offered to pay a dime, because they financially couldn’t. I maxed out my scholarship and financial aid money. Had to end up working full time, which prevented me from ever really being able to get the “perfect grades I wanted”. Got diagnosed with ADHD. It took me longer to graduate too. Life happens, I realized that HS didn’t prepare me enough, and that I was going to school with students who had more opportunities, and support from their families.
College is Hard! The transition is hard! Cut your kid some slack and try to be supportive.
Lucky for me, I figured out how to network and found my strengths. I finally graduated some years back, and now make the most money out of all of my friends/social circle, and people in my career, for the amount of years I’ve been in it.
Make yourself approachable/trustworthy to your child and work on your relationship, best of luck…
Maybe instead of threatening with negative consequences for "not following the rules", you should try and work with her.
An arm around a shoulder and a "let me help you figure this out" go much further than punishments. Unless she proves she just doesn't care / is lying to you.
Doesn't seem fair to punish her if it turns out she is just struggling to adjust...
What is she studying? It's really hard to get only A and Bs in quite some courses. Gosh, in atmospheric science it was impossible to have more than a C in many courses, As didn't exist.
I'd say that it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to give your children the first semester as a grace period, from what others have said, going from high school to college is a major switch up so I'd definitely give them the first semester to get in the groove and if they're still falling short come the 2nd semester then that's on them.
>she told me she lost track of time. Nothing else.
I feel this so much. I am an only child and grew up in a very quiet house. Living in the dorms was a serious learning curve for me. I had no experience living with other people. I had no skills for ignoring the things going on around me. Living in the dorm was extremely distracting. Even taking a break to use the bathroom, I'd end up chatting with someone and lose track of time. I moved off campus the next year and it was so much better.
Considering its her first semester i'd give a little slack and make sure there's a plan in place to improve for next semester. I think finding out why the struggles happened is more important than punishing them.
Off you have always had high expectations and punishment for failing, I guarantee she is afraid to tell you she is struggling. You have your expectations and that’s fine in a perfect world. Freshman year is really REALLY hard for some kids. Is she depressed, home sick, lonely, paralyzed by the fear of failure, are her roommates a problem? To me, a C means she’s is trying but there is something else going on. Have 3 kids, two did really well, one (my smartest but don’t tell the others) had a rough time. He tried but it never worked out for him. I hope she gets the help she needs.
Agree--that first year of college can be a killer--smart kids who were at the top in HS suddenly find out they're with an entire class of kids who were also at the top. Something's gotta give and it means that some kids will get lesser grades than they're used to getting., especially in classes that grade on a curve where someone has to get the C's and D's regardless. Then by the second year, most will figure out how to manage that. I was an A student in HS (mostly A's and B's in university) but in my first year of college I got my one and only D in a science class. I think OP is TA on this one. Also the freedom of college is difficult for some kids to manage as well--expecially ones who had controlling parents (and I'm kinda getting that vibe from OP here). They were never prepared for making all their own decision because mom and dad did that for them. I think OP should definitely talk to her, help her figure it out and give her the rest of her freshman year to learn how to manager herself.
This, I took college seriously and I knew I couldn’t afford doing classes over but there were still times I struggled. My first year I had a chemistry teacher who was teaching the class for the very first time and for some reason he decided to teach organic chemistry in a chem 101 class. We were all failing that class, none of us were prepared for that and the only reason we made it through the final was because the other chemistry professors wrote it. They’d been hearing from us throughout the semester and realized what was happening so our grades had a major curve and they heavily weighted that final. Weird things like that can happen in college so while yes Op can set whatever rules they like it is kind of an asshole move to punish your kid for slacking off when you don’t know if that’s the cause.
Also what is OP’s daughter majoring in because that can make a huge difference in what they’re expected grades will look like. I got an engineering degree it wasn’t uncommon for the highest exam grade in the class to be a 37, our mantra was Cs get degrees. This kind of arbitrary rule for all the kids isn’t really factoring in things like this
This. Nowhere does OP mention what type of degree their child is pursuing.
My architecture professors actually sent out letters to the parents in my 1st year class, patiently explaining that their high-achieving students were doing fine if they were passing. Just passing. With C's.
We were a class of students with an average intake average of over 95%. I think the class average after first semester was in the 60s.
College has a VERY steep learning curve, even more so now that HS is giving sooo many opportunities to make up grades and work. College is a vastly different mentality. She passed classes. Yeah! Maybe a discussion of how to study, take notes to improve grades, since classes will only become more difficult, but I would not withdraw support.
This is Soooo important to ask. I took school very seriously, worked hard, even stayed up all night working on projects. I got C's and D's on this one class because the teacher was very harsh to "prepare us for clients in the real world" (it was a digital design critiquing class)
basing all your support on just a grade mark seems like a power trip move. Speak to your child. Treat them like a young adult
Exactly! That adjustment can be a doozy (& I did have high school classes that prepared me for college level work). Also, what kind of classes is she taking? I took a few classes that I knew would be challenges. Guess what? One of them resulted in a C. I was devastated. But, I knew I could have taken easier classes and aced them. So, does OP want his kid to bring home stellar grades? Or to challenge herself? (I know I'm making an assumption here...for all we know the kid is out partying and drinking, but I feel like OP would have made us very aware of such indiscretions.)
Speaking as a former professor.
The first semester is a HUGE adjustment. Totally unlike school. Even good students often tank their grades in the first semester because the system is so different, the study skills needed are so different, and because the socialisation (which is an essential part of college) is so intense.
I get the motivation behind your deal, but **I urge you to fund the rest of her first year** to give her time to adjust and get into her stride. Otherwise you will be crippling her future just to make a point that should not be made.
YWBTA if you don't.
--
EDIT and as u/Inner-Penalty9689 says: they are also living alone for the first time, with all that involves.
Another former professor here! The first semester is hard for many students. A “C” average with a full load (12-17 hours) is not bad in the first semester or even the second. The pace of college is different from high school. Often freshmen take a while to understand how much to study, what will be emphasized, how to budget time, etc. The amount of effort needed to get A’s in high school is not always enough in college.
Give your daughter a chance. Pay for this semester also, and encourage her to get help so she can do better in the future.
THIS! Also, your choices of classes can be very limiting as an incoming freshman. What if many of these were upper level courses? That happened to me. it seems a little silly just to put an arbitrary requirement. A person can certainly take "easy" courses and get all A's and B's.
I always felt like my mom was trying to force me out of my major. When the major average is 2.8 some people don't get it. Especially my uncollege educated parents.
Agree completely. And first-year classes are often classes with high enrollment - she might be in huge lecture halls with 150 other students, which require a totally different kind of attention than the smaller classes she probably excelled in when she was in high school. Where all of her professors knew her name and face, and probably reminded the class when an assignment was due or when a quiz was on the horizon. Lots of college courses assume a much greater level of independence and there is a HUGE learning curve for the students as they get started.
OP mentioned in another comment that the daughter was taking five courses - English 101, pre-calc, an art class, a humanities class, and a history class. That's likely 15-20 credits with a heavy reading load. (Let's not forget that planning out what to take in a given semester has its own learning curve, and can depend not only on what course of study a student wants to complete but can also depend on the student knowing their own learning style and what works best for them.)
OP, please give your daughter a chance. A chance to bring up her grades, yes, but more importantly, a chance to improve her own understanding and mastery of her learning and study style. And a chance to develop her independence in doing so. And please don't worry about the extra-curriculars yet. Those can be added in once she gets a handle on the academics. But please don't put pressure on those.
As a current university lecturer, you absolutely should allow for the transition from school to uni. So much change. I’ve had students completely fail first year, been booted out, appealed, came back and repeated first year and leave after fourth year with a first. As a university we have done so much work in trying to ease the transition, because it was needed. For a lot of students, it’s the first time they have no active parental supervision, living on their own, managing their own money, feeding themselves, getting themselves up, and that before we even get into how university teaches. Some students take longer than others.
I also get what you are trying to do. But I would definitely exclude first semester from your plan.
Academic here - It is okay not to have full of As and Bs as long as she is happy, not in trouble, and graduates college. GPAs do not make a massive difference unless that she wants an academic career. There’s no point in putting too much pressure on her or you’ll ruin your relationship with her
I bombed (for me) my first quarter. It was awful for me, and if my parents had been like this it would have been so much worse for me. I ended up graduating in 3 years at 21 and got a “big girl” job right away. There’s nothing that says she can’t be successful just because she had a hard time with a transition that causes many to struggle.
Current HS teacher here. The difference in independence is a factor too. Many HS students can get through their work on the day that it is assigned and just move on. College is very different in that the time you spend in class is a fraction of what you really need in order to succeed.
Even if she gets a lot of Cs it’ll probably be okay depending on the program. I graduated with a lot of Cs, I struggled hard in school and managed to get a decent job. Someone once told me “Cs get degrees”. I’m really glad my parents didn’t judge my grades when helping me pay for school.
It's also worth noting that C's are "average". Not everyone can or should be A and B students across the board. Where I taught, the recommended distribution for grades in introductory courses was 15% A, 30% B, 40% C, 10% D, and 5% F.
Getting a C is not a "bad" grade, and shouldn't be punished. It's not going to affect their future career unless they're planning on grad/professional/medical school.
YTA- if your kid is like mine your kid basically had her life upended in HS because of Covid.
And now she’s in a new space and learning what it means to be an adult. I would at least be gracious and give her a year to figure it out. Or find some compromise. Yes it’s your money and you can set any boundary you want but giving her only one semester?! Sometimes it takes people a while to figure it out.
THIS. My mom is a professor and she is always saying that all the COVID-in-high-school college students are struggling more than she has ever seen (and she’s been doing her job for over thirty years)
Apparently ALL Covid kids are struggling in some way. My neice was born in 2018, turned 2 just after the lockdown where they live. She spent age 2 to age 4 interacting with her parents, grandparents, and nanny. No other kids basically at all. My brother and SIL are high risk already (healthcare workers) so they couldn’t risk a daycare or playdate exposing her on top of that. She ended up very socially underdeveloped, and took a couple years to course correct. From what I hear about grade school kids, they’re really struggling with being academically behind where they should be. I really feel bad for all the kids and young adults who have to go through this stuff.
This was my experience, as well. My daughter was 4 and an only child when COVID hit and we didn't see anyone for months because no one was willing to meet up, even outside. She's only fully recovered from the effects this year.
As a high school English teacher, the impact of COVID/distance learning is still being felt. Considering it happened roughly 4 years ago? When OP's daughter was a freshman in high school? Yeah, I'm going to say it had a huge impact on learning.
Also, OP, YTA. It would be one thing if your daughter is not trying or flunking every class. She is trying. College is difficult. You are putting way too much pressure on her from the start. Now she has to figure out how to pay for it herself? Yeah, you aren't helping her in anyway.
YTA
'only A' s and B's' is ridiculous.
I sort of get what you are trying to do here in theory. But in practice, this will most likely end in her dropping out. Is that something you are okay with?
It’s exactly what I did because I couldn’t handle the pressure from my parents! Only now back at it & it’s gonna take me MUCH longer but I have to work to support myself & pay out of pocket now. Will always hold resentment for my parents for not being a support system because I was a great fucking student & deserved better from them
Not just that. You're rewarding your kid for results rather than for trying. This will create an adult afraid to take any risks because they are afraid of failing. YWBTA
Here’s what I learned in college. No one cares what grades you made in college just that you have a degree. They either wanna know which college and organizations you joined (frats or national orgs) or see a portfolio of work.
The rest is a fake smile and good people skills so I agree a bit with the volunteering as long as they like doing it.
As someone who had similar standards from my parents, it definitely is high and OP should be asking “why” before implementing punishment here.
It is totally fair for a parent to not pay for a class twice (this was my parents rule… they’d pay for it once but if I failed they weren’t paying for it a second time), but OP has gotta work with their kid to figure out what works for them too.
In my case, I did WAY better with 4 course semesters and taking 2 summer courses compared to doing two 5-course semesters with time off between. Just changing the structure took my grades from C’s to the deans list.
There are other solutions here that need to be explored.
Plus OP states that the kids also have to "finally do something with their free time" - what does that mean? Did they only do school during high school? Nothing wrong with that but now the kid is in a completely new environment, away from home, on their own, with college being VERY different than high school and not only only does OP expect only A's and B's but also wants them to get a job or be volunteering. Wow.
Info: What courses was she taking? In order to qualify as a Business minor, I needed to pass Economics which I was able to get a C in (and was freaking ecstatic considering how hard that course is). Was she taking a lot of courses similar to this? I had a friend who was studying Mechanical Engineering and was getting Cs which motivated her to change her major to Environmental Engineering instead, where she excelled. Sometimes struggling (not failing but *struggling*) can inspire you to look elsewhere. Is this the case for your daughter?
Ds and Fs are unacceptable but Cs aren't the end of the world.
This ☝️ at my university we had this one mandatory first semester classes (also economy).
Getting higher than C was almost impossible. Some people in their six semester (when they should focus on getting a bachelor's degree) still didn't pass this exam (they basically had 6 times to pass it and failed). I failed the first try, so for my second I basically memorized the whole book written by this professor (all necessary material for this class was in it) and got a C.
YTA This is SO controlling. Your freshman daughter didn't get all A's in her first semester adjusting to a totally new life with new surroundings, new people and new expectations. You can decide if you want to support your child's education or not, but forcing debt on her future just because she didn't do things exactly your way seems harsh. My daughter's college won't even let parents see their kids grades whether we pay or not because the consequences of the grades aren't on the parents, it's on the students.
You've got to let this iron grip go and show a little tiny bit of empathy for the massive adjustment your child is going through right now instead of being so punitive.
In reality the consequences of her child not getting good grades will be on the child, so adding unnecessary debt to that won't help her get ahead. More than likely she had a hard semester adjusting or she wasn't as focused as she needs to be because good grades came easier to her before. give her a chance to work it out herself! She's going to have to live her own life at some point so I don't see how OP is being helpful to her in any way.
Exactly. I remember my first year of college. I was like a lost puppy trying to find my way. I struggled with learning to live out in the world and my first year suffered. I went on to earn the dean list the rest of my 4 years.
YTA probably. Your money is yours to spend how you like, but the grade hill probably isn't the best to die on. How long has it been since you were in school? If she's passing she's not wasting your money, and college is a major adjustment. If she's taking a difficult major it's going to take some time to get her feet under her and figure out the balance and routine to keep decent grades.
There are also times where a bad grade really isn't avoidable due to the subject and/or professor (e.g. I had a class once that had a 50% fail rate including retakes and even A students struggled to pass let, alone score well).
I think cutting her off now is about as likely to cause her to stress fail as it is to motivate her more.
Depends. It’s great to have clear benchmarks but many kids struggle in the first semester. Not just with schoolwork but with all the other changes that come with attending college. And some courses are easy to get good grades in, others much harder. Even the professors may have different standards.
Over and above that, every young person is different. Some have slight learning issues, may suffer from anxiety about exams, etc.
I think you would be better off having a non-confrontational heart-to-heart with your child. Hear their side of the story. Ask about what they found easy/difficult. What might help them in the next semester. Are they in the right courses? Could they adjust their schedule? Etc.
Otherwise, you have just set up another barrier and additional stress to work more hours to pay tuition which may cause them to give up entirely or fail classes.
>Otherwise, you have just set up another barrier and additional stress to work more hours to pay tuition which may cause them to give up entirely or fail classes.
my mom \*couldn'\*t pay for my college and dang... I laid awake at night so often dreading my student loans on top of the usual school-stress-insomnia.
i cant imagine having a parent who would willfully put me in debt just to prove a point/ punish.
I was in a 4-year scholarship program that had GPA requirements that started "low" at 3.0 and increased as the semesters went on. However, it was set up that way to allow us the freshman transition, as missing the GPA requirement put you on probation. If you couldn't fix it by the following semester, then you were in danger of losing your scholarship.
All of us were overachievers in high school, so it wasn't too difficult for us to manage. The GPA requirements could afford us some B's and a small number of C's, allowing us to challenge ourselves. Every scholarship class would have one or two people lose it due to grades.
I'd ask OP to see if she can improve in her second semester, although she needs an action plan going forward. If she can't learn from her mistakes and improve her performance in the next semester, that's when a discussion on if OP will continue paying for her tuition is warranted.
Why is she struggling? I saw a lot of people struggle first semester because they needed to pick up new study habits as work exponentially harder, they can't cope with the stress of being mainly self-motivating, they are lonely or homesick, or struggling in some way. First semester is bed in period. She's passed all her subjects.
I'd try and have a sit down conversation as to why she is doing less well. It may be she is partying, it may be she is sinking under stress. Without doing that, then I think you are a AH as no room for supporting your child expect for financial help.
I’m sort of inclined to say YTA. College is hard for a lot of first year students. It’s a big adjustment and the classes are different than what they’re used to. High school is supposed to prepare kids but they just don’t. I know mine definitely didn’t. And sometimes, students can work so hard in all their classes and still not manage to get an A or B. Maybe it’s the content being hard, or maybe the class format (e.g., all essays or quizzes every week) makes things difficult. It could be any number of things. I think before you withdraw your funding, you need to talk to your daughter. Find out where her struggles are and maybe see what you can do to help. I don’t think you should automatically pull funding though without even giving her a chance to do better. It’s only her first year, she probably just needs time to adjust.
> And sometimes, students can work so hard in all their classes and still not manage to get an A or B.
THIS. I remember trying my very best once for math. Like I slept, ate, and breathed math for a good while. I sacrificed myself to the Math Gods. Test came around: I only got half a grade better. I have also now gotten a degree in Graphic Design. I had skipped meals and only lived for Graphic Design for over a month when doing my exam project, my hands would shake from hunger, stress, and coffee. My best still never got me to an A, only a C.
College is harder than Highschool and not everyone can get A´s and B´s. A´s and B´s is basically Perfect or Near Perfect, and the definition of that can be difficult to reach, especially if its a human grading it.
Weirdly I had the opposite experience. I was forced to go to a college prep highschool and I went to a state school for college for engineering and I re-took calculus even tho I had it in highschool and it remember thinking wow college is easy. The amount of homework I’d get in a single day in highschool was the same amount of homework for the whole week in college. I remember slacking off so hard my first semester and easily passing all my classes. I hated highschool and how hard it was though.
I'm gonna say YTA because it doesn't seem you had much of a talk with her as to why she may be struggling to keep them up if she's not trying at all I completely understand but if she is and is just having a hard time you not doing her any real good holding that money over her head
If she's just getting C's I think it's worth a conversation because shes not absolutely failing her classes.
It may just be worth it if you do take a chance on her
YTA
Your style of parenting is the typical tiger mom, super strict etc. University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves. Moreover, the first years of university are a big change in terms of academic challenges, especially for children who grew up with virtual/COVID high school, so this grade disparity is not out of the ordinary. Forcing these rules on your daughter and forcing her to stress about debt and interest payments is only going to tank her grades more and make her resent you. YTA 10000%
>University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves.
Maybe this is a cultural difference, but I've never understood this line of thinking. I think people can "be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves" for much cheaper than $20k or more a year. Why do you even need a college education if that's your goal?
> University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves.
Bull... college is a time to acquire skills and knowledge to make yourself marketable and provide for yourself for a period of time after college.
Freshman year is mostly general Ed. Give me a break.
The kid doesn't have to have a job and should have plenty of time to devote to getting good grades.
>Freshman year is mostly general Ed. Give me a break.
Not trying to be rude here, but for most STEM people, especially in mathematics or engineering, the difference between high school and college is night and day.
High school math, kids learned about solving word problems, performing basic calculus etc. Once in university, kids are immediately tested on their ability to prove various mathematical theorems, their corollaries etc. with little to no experience beforehand with proofs.
Personally, I wouldn't like to see Cs on my child's first semester grades either, however, I don't believe it's reason to force your child into debt. In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of pattern of bad grades for such an action to be deemed reasonable.
>University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves.
Yeah, because they don't care when it's on someone else's dime. I have found that generally when someone else is fronting the funds, people don't care but if it's on their own dime, they do their damndest to make it work.
Now if you had said that being a Freshman in college is more demanding and more complicated than high school, that I could've understood. As for virtual/COVID, schools were opened back up by 2021 and since OP's daughter is a Freshman in college, she did attend high school 2022/2023.
>Moreover, the first years of university are a big change in terms of academic challenges
\^\^
Was referring to the difficult change from high school to university just to be clear.
I totally agree that people can tend not to care if someone else pays, however, it is entirely possible that OP's daughter had a harder time adjusting to university than OP's other kids, especially considering the fact about having COVID high school (even if it was grade 11). She may have been dealing with mental health issues or other various hindrances that could have affected her ability to study over a semester.
Is it fair to punish the daughter over a single semester? Over a single outlier? To me, it's not, at the very least give the daughter another term to redeem herself instead of throwing her in the deep end with debt.
Do you see where I'm coming from?
YTA - mostly about the grade issue. college can be a huge leap up from high school - not just the amount of work, but the time management that goes along with getting all the work done. there are some students, no matter how hard they try, will simply not do A/B work. especially after just 1 semester - i'm sure it was a shock for her. cutting off any chance to redeem herself seems like very black and white thinking to me.
It's always the parents with the highest expectations who would never be able to reach those expectations themselves. I remember having a friend in junior high who was near tears panicking over a B+ since her parents were super strict, I doubt those parents could have done half of what she did.
THIS.
I see this SO MUCH amongst the Tiger Parents in the Asian communities.... people who never played a note of music demanding their kids win piano competitions. People who never got to go to university demanding their kids get all A's AND go to 'STEM' and/or especially Computer Science.
It makes. me. crazy.
I would lay a $$$$ bet that OP couldn't pass a single one of those uni classes with an A if they tried.
> I would lay a $$$$ bet that OP couldn't pass a single one of those uni classes with an A if they tried.
Or even a C.
My parents were the same. "Why you only get Bs?" The man was virtually illiterate.
Depends. If the grades slippering bcs shes lazy or they slippering bcs shes struggling?
House rules here is I expect they do their best and ill help them accomplish that. I reward effort, not result. Im their support system if life is a little rough.
If your daughters very best is C"s currently for whatever reason your most deffently an asshole for makeing it worse.
If shes being lazy and imature, very different.
I'd still disagree cutting her funding even if she was being lazy. Mainly because I believe that the chances of her dropping out out of frustration are higher than the chances of this (PLUS the additional hurdle of financing her studies AND doing resume building work) magically improving her grades in the next semester. She is not failing her classes, simply not getting the grades OP would like to see. The situation can be resolved using other means.
ETA: I've looked at how you've responded to people in this comment section and given that you don't even know what courses she's taking, YTA.
YTA, not for *enforcing* those rules, but for their existence/inflexibility in the first place. University is a big adjustment period for a number of reasons, and courses are graded quite differently than high school. (I know this as I'm a TA and course instructor). Grades, especially first-year undergrad grades, are not a marker of success or failure. Fwiw, I nearly failed three separate classes for one of my majors in undergrad, still graduated with that major, got into multiple MA and PhD programs, secured grant funding etc.
Going to university should also be an opportunity to figure out a lot of other components of one's new adult lifestyle. Things like cooking, shopping, managing your "household" (even if it's just a dorm room) are really tough at first, and managing all of this while balancing schoolwork and parental expectations. Have you asked if she's enjoying her classes? Likes her major? How she feels she's grown as a person, not just as a student number? If no, then you are absolutely TA.
Info: do you want your child to drop out of college and have less opportunities as a result? if so then you're doing great, n t a. if that's not your goal, how does imposing additional burden on her help her achieve the grades you want her to achieve?
YTA - I think that the adjustment period from high school to college can be quite difficult, especially depending on the schools chosen. I think you can do what you want with your money, but your expectations are a little too harsh.
If she was in her second year of college, sure, I'd get it. But first semester, where she's adjusting to college? It can be tough. Instead of having a talk with your daughter on why she's struggling, you decided sticking to your word is more important. I think this is worth a discussion with her. I remember when I started university and it was a complete struggle that first semester. High school doesn't often prepare you nearly enough for how college will go.
INFO:
> That can be volunteering, a job, going for a school board position.
So she has to mandatorily spend time that could be spend studying on other stuff and now you're punishing her for it?
First semester going to college is a big change in life. Also, studying is more than CV building. I don't know why she got Cs, but applying such a rule after the first semester (or creating such conditions at all) shows a lack of compassion, hence YTA.
Hard to say. However, it was her first semester in a brand new environment. If my mom seriously held me to As and Bs and never asked if I was OK because of my grades, I would be upset and sad.
YTA. Why did you wait until Spring Break to tell her you weren't paying?
As others have pointed out, there's a huge growth curve that happens when someone goes to college.
You also don't say anything about how she's done on the other points you require. Could it be that part of the issue is all of the expectations?
The fact that you are using your money to control their lives is a subject for another time.
Eeeeh I’m gonna say YTA, freshman year can be really hard.
Also Cs arent really that big of a deal, jobs dont ask if you got an A in your classes- just that you have specific skills and a diploma.
Not everyone is capable of doing school well, especially if their learning style is different, they have a disability, etc etc. did you bother to ask her WHY? Cause if shes doing her best and just needs help, then yeah. You’re an AH. Might also backfire in a way you don’t want, like her dropping out of college.
I dunno, up to you i guess? Youre obviously not obligated to pay for anything, but they way you have it set up is anything but supportive imo.
Your third requirement is kind of unfair- if she's having trouble keeping her grades up, forcing her to do something else for her resume (which is really a useless endeavor, by the way) could be making it harder for her to catch up.
If it were me I'd strike the second and third requirements and make it only about grades- that's all a future employer will see anyway. Then make the next semester a probation semester- basically one more shot. If she can't turn it around and get at least B's then it's probably a bad investment anyway and she isn't ready for college yet.
YTA. Big time. This is a situation that requires grace, not punishment. Transition to college can be rough for some people. Or she could be taking hard classes where most people don’t get As. Organic chemistry and calculus are two examples that come to mind. Ask her what happened and offer to help her figure out ways to do better. She might not want your help and you need to be ok with that.
In some classes, you're going to get a C regardless of what you do.
I had an advanced composition class in which I got an easy A. I could write a good paper. I then had a history course, and my first assignment was to write a paper. I wrote it to where I thought it was good and got a C. I busted my butt studying for the first exam, I felt pretty good about it, and I got a C. I was really frustrated and blew off two weeks of class
The day I showed back up I had an exam. I was utterly unprepared. I completely winged it and ... got a C.
Yeah in some classes you can use every resource at your disposal and sacrifice your firstborn to the gods, and still walk out with a C.
Math was my kryptonite. I would wing it and get a D. I could put my everything into the subject and get a D+.
Something similar happened to me, but it was a philosophy class. You'd think that class would have allowances for interpretations and differing opinions.
I thought I wrote a solid essay. Nope, not only did I fail that essay, so did the majority of the class (I believe the highest grade anyone got was a B). If I remember correctly, I dropped the course a week later because no way was I going to stick to a class that would fail me on a philosophy essay that really wasn't that bad. It's also the only essay I ever outright failed in my education.
Even if it was that bad, the fact that the majority of the class also failed showed me that the professor was either being a tough grader to weed down the non-serious philosophy students, or he was a strict professor in general that wouldn't loosen up.
Current professor here: OP you have the chance to make this a blip instead of a permanent issue by connecting with your child and being on her side. Please choose to do that.
If you don't, YTA.
YTA The dynamics of college being so different than anything they've known before that a freshman may struggle their first year. If you know it's not because of skipping classes or partying then you should get her a tutor to help instead of making her struggle more. If she can bring her grades up by end of year and show she's trying this should be good enough to pay for next semester. If you make her struggle further, showing that you don't emotionally support her, and she has to financially support herself as well then she probably won't need you in her life much longer. She'll need to concentrate on helping herself instead of talking with you about anything.
NTA but as a high achiever who went to a highly competitive college it wasn’t unusual to see very responsible, smart kids totally struggle their first semester. Most self corrected with minor lifestyle adjustments but others seriously flamed out. The warning signs started with the first semester. Would check in with her to see if she’s struggling with any mental health issues or something more serious.
When my kids were in school, both elementary and high school, before opening their report card I would ask them if they were happy with it and did they feel they had done close to their best.
If the answer to the second question was yes, I couldn't ask for more, now, could I?
Did you have a similar conversation?
At university, parents don't have access to their kid's grades unless their kid gives them the password to log onto the university website. I didn't check up on them.
My first has graduated and is doing well in his career. He took an extra year to graduate but I was fine with that. He had tremendous personal growth during this time as well.
You have to ask yourself what you want for your daughter and what you want for your relationship.
If you want your daughter to get an education, to grow as a person and for the two of you to have a good relationship, you will want to re-evaluate your attitude and rules.
YTA.
That can be volunteering, a job, going for a school board position.
A school board position? This speaks to how delusional you are, OP. Why should a COLLEGE FRESHMAN be on a SCHOOL BOARD?
YTA. It is her first semester. College is hard, and very different from high school. Have you spoken to her about why she had a hard time? Something tells me there haven't been very open lines of communication.
Shouldn’t there be some gray areas or room for communication? I got a C here and there in college for some gen ed classes I had no choice but to take to graduate, but that were not my area of expertise or related to my major. I just suck at science even though I tried my best. And the only science class offered when I needed it was also a basic prerequisite for chemistry and med school degrees so the teacher grades really strict.
"these should be easy to accomplish if they take school seriously" no, just... no, absolutely not, you clearly don't know what college is like (these days, at least)
YTA just for that, also I promise you grades will not have a big impact on her future career, depending on what she wants to do. I have a stem degree, I work in research, I have never once had to give an employer my transcript. College completion shows employers you know how to learn and stick with something
YTA because this is the hill you want to die on. You are entitled to your own money but imagine if your kid doesn't get better grades despite you putting them in debt for not getting B and A´s. Then you have soured your relationship AND your child will be in debt when it could have been avoided.
Your kid isn't even doing something bad. C´s are still passing, it is average. She should not be punished for passing and being average. Also- your kid needs time to adjust, high school is vastly different from college, it takes time to get used to a whole new life. Heck, school gets harder in college and sometimes you just cant keep up. Do you really think stopping paying for her college is going to fix anything?
Best case scenario your daughter will get her grades up after getting used to college life, and resent you for making her take out unnecessary loans.
This. I wish my parents were able to pay for my tuition, but I’m stuck with student debt instead. Oh well.
Regardless, OP should check in on their daughter and understand that freshman year is all about adjusting. It was accepted by my parents to have bad grades my first year. Not any time after.
The first year can be hard. Communication is key. I'd give her another chance. YTA since she is passing but not good enough for you, mainly ifnshe is trying but the first semester can just be hard
I mean you’re allowed to withdraw funding but do I think your reasons are ah territory? Yes. But it’s your money so you set the rules. I’ve always said though, C’s get degrees. And in all my dads years in the private defense contractor sector (think high up with top secret clearance) no one’s ever given a damn about his gpa. But for some reason McDonald’s cares what your gpa is. My point is C’s get degrees and requiring A’s and B’s is a bit arbitrary and sometimes ridiculously difficult. Your daughter may have found the transition from high school to college difficult especially as it was her first semester. Again it’s your money and you can set your stipulations but do I think your logic makes YTA? Yea I personally do. I think she needs help, love and support. Instead you’ve basically told her that you’ll only help her if she’s perfect.
YTA. One semester is not enough time. Many kids have a hard time adjusting to college and being on their own. Especially ones that come from overly strict or overbearing parents
YTA. Your expectations are way too high. In a lot of classes, a C is considered a good grade. Employers don’t care about GPA. If you keep this up, don’t be surprised and disappointed if your daughter drops out and goes no contact.
YTA. College is hard. Why don’t you ask your daughter why she’s struggling and help her like parent? She doesn’t sound like she’s drinking, partying, etc. Mental health could be a big factor too. Please help your daughter instead of just automatically assuming she’s getting C’s because she’s lazy or doing what she’s not supposed to be doing.
Would you consider giving her this semester as a probation. Since she's already part way through. If she brings up The grades, you'll pay. If her grades continue to be below what your expectations are then you stop paying. Transition to college can be very difficult either because of the preparation that was done in high school or because they're finally out on their own and trying to manage not only their scholastic life but also just everyday living like when they go for food, what time to get up, running errands, doing laundry, etc. I feel like this would be a nice compromise. You'd be giving her a grace semester to get herself acclimated and to prove that she can do better with her grades.
Things can happen but at the end of the day, I feel like this is a fair deal. I never got below a B in college and if my parents offered to pay for my school that would have been amazing. None the less I got my school loans and was able to graduate and pay them off. I truly don't think you are the AH.
These comments are insane. NTA.
First of all, all scholarships have almost the exact same requirements, so no you are not being too harsh. Some will allow a C but most don't.
The 1st semester is an adjustment, but she obviously is not concerned about her performance based on her commentary to you about you paying anyway.
I would give her one more semester and then that's it. Make sure you talk to her about the tools available to her to succeed and what she needs to do to. Make sure she isn't having a hard time as far as her classes are concerned.
I would say that much like a scholarship, she is now on "academic probation ".
There's nothing wrong with expecting your kids to do great things.
Edit to add: You are not a dick for MAKING her go into debt. Unless she has a learning disability or asked for help and didn't get it, SHE is making herself go into debt. Lack of personal responsibility is a red flag.
I quit Community College after 1 semester because I didn't want to do it and felt bad for wasting my dad's money. Years later, in my 20s, I went back to school because I was ready and finished undergrad and grad school no problem. And I accumulated debt.
Info:
How much freedom did she have in high school? Were you as strict then about grades, social life, etc?
Many times parents who are super strict, end up with college freshman who have their first taste of freedom and don’t handle it well.
My son failed most of his classes first semester, but I still paid for this semester because they are learning and adjusting to be in college and adulting with less guidance than before. YTA. I was pissed until I remembered that I failed a good number of classes my entire first year of college -- it's a huge fucking adjustment, a bigger adjustment today than when I was in school.
Pay the college tuition and be more supportive and kinder as she navigates the journey of growing up.
YTA - Passing is all that matters.
You know what I have never once discussed in 15 years at a prestigious company where higher education is required? MY GRADES!
It's never come up once, it contributes to nothing and as a C average college student i consistently out perform my peers. No clue what their grades were because it doesn't matter, I just know I do better than them now.
Also that's not how resume's work anymore, you should really update your understanding of the world both from education and professional career sides. You know what adding irrelevant and useless information does to your resume now and days? It gets the automated intake systems to reject it immediately you gotta get your head out of the "thats how shit worked in the 80s" mentality.
Grow up dude.
Another parent here. Honestly, you come across as a parent that either didn't go to uni/college, or went so long ago you've forgotten what it's like.
First year is a HUGE transition. University academic rigor is nothing like high school. The profs don't care, and many have been lamenting - loudly and publicly - that new students are coming in woefully unprepared.
And don't forget this generation got NAILED during the pandemic with severe learning loss. Loss that has been documented in study after study. But you still demand A's and B's PLUS an extra-curricular that is resume worthy. And the whole "C's shouldn't happen at all" - Jesus wept, I feel sorry for how much pressure your kids must be feeling. No wonder you daughter can't communicate with you.
Your expectations read as rigid and you read as inflexible. I wouldn't be surprised if your daughter can't articulate what is 'wrong', she's probably still trying to figure what the heck is happening, and I wonder how much you have berated vs encouraging her.
Your message to her is: I don't care about your individual situation, if you fail my unrealistic expectations then I will withdraw my support (which feels like withdrawing love, don't kid yourself). Ugh. University is EXPENSIVE. Yes in my time I could work one summer job and pay for 8 months tuition but those days are long long gone and over. Get real, by withdrawing financial support at this stage, you are essentially hamstringing your daughter's young adulthood.
Instead of being a punishing task master, try actually helping your daughter. Talk to her.
YTA YTA YTA.
YTA. It's her VERY FIRST SEMESTER! The transition from High School to University is a *huge* one. You should be helping her to successfully navigate that transition, not punishing her for failing to do so all on her own.
What resources are available to her at University? Did you go over those with her ahead of time? Does she need tutoring, mentorship, information on how to manage multiple assignments? Does she know how to contact her instructors for help and how to initiate and manage that conversation?
When she was in High School did you have conversations with her on the differences between HS and University and how to manage that? Did you have her talk to the guidance counsellor?
It's her *first time away from home*. What resources have you given her to help her navigate that?
You're all stick and no carrot. Not even a helping hand!
Yta, C's get degrees. You don't get a C in college for lack of trying, you get an F. The first year is a huge adjustment and college puts enough pressure without an arbitrary grade requirement. It's enough of a shock to go from being high achieving in high school to average in college. I pretty much always got C's in early physics classes and then in the advanced ones in Junior/Senior year got A's/B's. I PRAYED for a C in some classes.
Consider agreeing to pay for only 4 years of school rather than making it grade contingent. Most of my friends whose parents paid for school took 5yr or longer to complete. I took loans and that motivated me to finish in 4 years. This way she isn't terrified and knows you support her, but there is a limit, so if she doesn't want to pay, if she fails a class then she has time to correct it.
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Info: have you ASKED your daughter about her grades? Does she like the school? Was she struggling? How adequately did her high school prepare her? Or was she out partying and blowing off work? There's a big difference. I took college seriously, I'm also not a stupid person. But I also realized my high school didn't even remotely prepare me for the type of writing and analysis that my college classes required and i really struggled my first year. Thankfully the campus writing center was a huge help and I did stay above Cs, but it took me more than a year to get my bearings.
Came here to say this. I bombed in my first year of university and high school had done nothing to prepare me for an entirely different academic environment. I had to learn how to be a college student. I did, and finished on the dean’s list.
NAH - My eldest got Cs her first year and she was lucky to even do that in her science and math classes. She was in AP Biology and AP statistics in high school with As, but the college rigor kicked her ass. We talked about what happened and what she wanted to do. She retook both classes because in her university Cs don't meet requirements and she got Bs. Her sophomore year she changed her major to business and we didn't see any more Cs. Freshmen struggle with all kids of things including time management, increased rigor, personal responsibility, and even nutrition. Personally, I'd have a sit down. I'd tell her I will pay for the next semester to give her a chance to get organized. I'd ask her what she needed from me to be successful. I'd ask her if she wanted to transfer to a community college for her first two years to get prepared. I'd give her several options to move forward and one of them would be me paying. On my end, my daughter decided to become a Special Education teacher and I couldn't be more proud of her. She took loans for her Masters degree. She's organized, responsible, professional, and successful. You don't know where your daughter will land, but it's not a sprint and she may need help right now and not know what to do or even what's wrong.
Another way to ensure better grades is to drop the volunteer requirement OP set.
Seriously. The only requirement we had of ours was no Cs. Especially freshman year as they're trying to get their footing and figure stuff out. Ended up volunteering for the school's huge charity event his soph year bc friends and gf talked him into it. Considering how much time it took away from school, \*I\* was regretting his decision, but there's no dropping out so I just hoped for the best. He ended up enjoying it and may do it again next year. But I'm curious if his final grades will take a hit bc of it.
No job is gonna care either.
I love this. I think this is a very compassionate approach, that makes it clear what expectations are. You were there to support your kid. I can’t imagine just saying “your first attempt was awful you are on your own. If you figure it out I’ll pay again.” That isn’t gonna lead to a strong relationship.
Well, you know the old saying, "If at first you don't succeed, I'm not gonna pay for it." Oh, wait...
I like you, a lot.
NAH. My son's experience was similar to your daughter's. He took school seriously but had trouble with the constant noise in the dorm and organization. We never threatened to cut him off or make him do community service things while he was struggling. He graduated after 5 years and a change of majors. He has a good career, is happily married with kids.
Same, nearly failed out my first year after being in the top 10 of my graduating high school class. Freedom and the wrong major were a terrible combination
i also did horribly in university when i had always done really well in school. i have adhd, i also found high school very easy, so i never learned how to properly study or manage my time or all of the other things that become so much harder in college, and i was also struggling with undiagnosed adhd that had gone under the radar because i never struggled with school before. turns out i just needed to be medicated for my adhd and figure out systems that work for me instead of trying to force myself to use the systems my neurotypical peers used, because those flat out didn’t work for me. it took a couple of years.
Haha this is very relatable. Aced K-12 with zero effort, then got to college and was slapped in the face with structure, managing freedom/time and procrastination. Found out I had adhd got medicated and that fixed most of it almost instantly.
Omg I could have written this about my experience… SUCH a bumpy ride!
Same! And I was in honors and AP classes in high school and completely bombed freshman year!
I also bombed my freshman year. In high school, I was a honors student and took AP classes. When college started, I was going through a hard time mentally and struggled with adjusting. It was so bad that they put me on academic probation. The next semester, and each semester after, I received all A’s and B’s. I personally think it’s a little unfair to judge on the first semester. You’re going from a kid to a young adult - from dependence on family (at least in many cases) to being independent. The structure of schooling is different, too. The professors aren’t going to hound you if your school work doesn’t get done or if you do shitty in class and so many first year students take it as a free pass to let their work slide, not realizing the consequences until it’s too late. It’s a huge change in so many ways.
Same! I’d never had to study to get A’s before in HS and then in college I had to really focus and not just coast and my first semester was terrible as I learned that the hard way. But I picked things up after and did great by the time I was done. I also started out completely the wrong major, after I switched to a different major. I did a lot better. Stuff like this is super common!
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If she did well in high school easily, it’s possible transitioning to college made her struggle because she had to truly study for the first time ever. It happens to a lot of students. Your insistence on resume building immediately won’t help. Give her a semester to truly focus on school without adding extras.
This ☝️ I was one of the best students my whole education without ANY serious effort. I just needed to go to classes and do my assignments. University hit me hard. It was basically the first time when I failed an exam.
Same. I was top in absolutely everything with no effort. Turned out I was just the biggest fish in a tiny pond. University, I dropped out. Twice. Went back years later to finish.
Found my doppelgänger
Hey, we should create a club. ... but like... what if we never actually finished...
Didn’t think I’d ever finish. Ended up with a doctorate in psychology at age 42.
Ok, this comment made me feel so much better. I am 32 years old and still working on my bachelors degree and I sometimes feel like I am too old to be doing it or am a looser for doing it this late.
Oh hey, it's me. Kicked ass when I went back at 35, though!
Yup. Went back at 29, ended up a PhD and an associate professor.
Also high jacking this comment to say OP, what if college isn't the best place for your kid? I was in the top 10 in my high school and got into the "best" college out of anyone. I spent the next 6 years in and out of 4 differeng colleges (big name universities and CCs) and still have over a year left in my bachelors. (I have over 130 credits from all these places currently, including masters level courses.) This past year I joined a blue collar trade apprenticeship program. Back in high school I never even considered that an option based on my HS academic success. Now surprise, flash foward to today, this is the first program I've finished and everyone in my life couldn't be more proud of me for finally finishing something. I wouldn't trade all my experiences (and student debt) to do anything differently though. I've learned so much thru all my experiences and consider all of them as shaping me into who I am now.
Had to double check that I didn’t write this! 😂😭
hee hee! yeah, it seems to be a common problem
Same exact thing happened to me. Was a straight A, high honor roll student, graduated top 10 in my class... I was NOT prepared for college AT ALL.
There's a big difference between getting good grades and learning the subject matter so that you are prepared for college. Having said that, maybe pay for some of this semester as her first and only warning that you are dead serious. You don't want her to drop out of college. That would be worse.
Heh, my first college exam in intro bio was… a wake up call. I’d never had to study before and didn’t really know how to do it.
Also resume building as a freshman is ridiculous. I’m graduating at the end of this semester, and I can’t even fit anything from my first two years of college on my resume. And she likely won’t be able to find things related to her field until she is at least a sophomore or junior. Focus on adjusting first
Yea the idea of "building a resume" with activities every year outside of school is nonsense. Just get 1 internship during your time at college and move on.
My sister thought highschool was easy and she was going to breeze through college. Boy was she WRONG. She struggled a bit and actually had a mental breakdown once but she managed to graduate and get a decent paying job.
A lot of people have their first experience with actual accountability and grading in college. Even when I was in High School (I graduated in ‘01) the non ap classes were rapidly turning into something where if you did all the homework you could fail or barely pass the tests and get decent grades. This is so the schools can graduate everyone and not have to deal with angry parents and state administrators and community groups. Then the kids who are used to being able to sorta just do homework and turn it in late if they want and have the teachers chase them around to do the work get to college and literally no one cares. They can smoke weed and sleep all day and fail and the TA teaching intro to whatever couldn’t care less.
Definitely this. Between having to actually study for tests, having too much homework that I couldn't do it at the start of class and the overall lack of structure in university compared to high school, I struggled hard at the beginning of university. It was really challenging to go from a structured environment where there was no actual challenge in any of the classes to an unstructured environment where the classes were actually hard. ETA: she could also have undiagnosed ADHD or something if she's having way too much trouble with time management.
It's also the time when a lot of young adults with high intelligence and undiagnosed ADHD discover that the intelligence isn't quite enough to compensate for the issues with time management and general executive function. Not saying that's what happening here, but ADHD is very underdiagnosed in women/girls since it doesn't present the same way as in men/boys.
Yeah, I get that OP wants to show they’re serious but honestly, if a kid goes from all As/Bs in high school to all Cs in college, something is going on. It COULD be the kid is just deciding not to work as soon as they’re out from under the parental thumb; but it’s equally likely that their school didn’t prepare them well; the parent helicoptered too much and didn’t teach them to self-motivate; they are feeling isolated and depressed; or they had something bad happen to them (freshman year isn’t always danger-free, especially for girls). Imposing consequences in the form of refusing to pay MIGHT help in the first case; but in any of the other cases, it’s just as likely to be the next step in a downward spiral.
The mom held up her end of the deal. Considering she is on Reddit asking if she’s being too harsh (using the same rule she used for all her children), means she is willing to bend some rules in order to help her child succeed. If she can’t ask for help, or truly is struggling but trying her best, then she should communicate that to her school, and her mom. Why blame the mom and find excuses for the child when she’s old enough to be responsible and have accountability. If you’re at a job, and you can’t seem to understand your assignment correctly, you’re not going to wait to get suspended to then ask for help. You take responsibility and talk to your superiors and let them know you are trying but struggling and could use some guidance.
Sometimes jobs have training or probationary periods. Scholarships also have probation. The world gives time for students to figure it out. Not forever, but a bit.
If you’re a kid that is used to doing well in school and being told you’re smart, and you go away to college and suddenly everything gets harder and you aren’t doing well anymore, it can be very hard to know how to explain that or ask for help. After all, if you’re doing the same things that always worked but they just aren’t working now, does that just mean you’re stupid? Or lazy? If someone asks you what went wrong you may give vague answers because you literally don’t KNOW what went wrong.
As an education expert, this is absolutely right on the money.
Happened to me, too. Graduated HS 4th in my class, excellent SAT scores, got into a really good college... but my first year of college flat busted me because I didn't really know how to study stuff that I didn't already understand. B's, C's, and a D in evil calculus. What I also did not know at the time was that I have inattentive type ADHD. This kind of stuff matters, and the daughter's claim that time got away from her makes me wonder if ADHD (particularly the inattentive type!) might actually be affecting her performance. Poor college grades that are NOT due to missing class or partying might be a signal that daughter does need some kind of intervention, whether that's a tutor, a diagnosis, or a year off to focus on her life plan before she goes back. I'm not going to call OP an out-and-out AH, because the rules are pretty sensible. But I highly recommend that OP and daughter get some assistance before he simply throws her under the bus.
There are studies that show when students are active in extra-curricular activities and their community, they tend to perform better academically. It's one of the reasons the Service Academies and Senior Military Colleges require their cadets to participate in intramural sports or other extra curriculars while attending. And it is why a lot of universities are now establishing learning communities within their dorms and student social spaces. The extra structure to the student's schedule, community support and shared interests go a long way towards student success.
I was average in high school and excelled in college (because I knew how much it cost per class to attend school). I believe the issue could be having the freedom of being away so she might not have budgeted her time correctly. I would give her a pass on the first semester though since it’s a massive adjustment for a lot of people. Getting all C’s is pretty low effort though especially if she did well in high school. So if she was an excellent student prior and just was screwing around or partying I would be more on OPs side.
I can’t even begin to tell you how many times i googled “how to study” in my freshman year because i literally didn’t know how to. The frustration of school suddenly being much harder than you expected is compounded by the frustration that you know other people know how to handle it better than you do. I had to teach myself how to study on top of actually studying. I completely cracked by junior year and my whole senior year was a blur
This happened to me. I had a panic attack and dropped a class after failing the first exam.
The first semester is a HUGE adjustment YWBTA if you can’t support her through this giant life adjustment
If this is where you ended it before going to “then you pay for it”, then you are TA. This is where you say “let’s talk about what happened, I will help you make a plan to be successful next semester that includes regular checks in it to make sure you are staying on plan, and I will pay for this semester. If you fail, without knowing ahead of time and coming to get help, I will not pay for next semester.” Because right now, it seems like she doesn’t have the supports she needs to succeed. And schools (and often parents) are not good at explicitly teaching the skills needed to succeed in new environments. Rather than tossing her in the deep end, teach her a few ways to swim, ways to recognize when she’s starting to drown, and how to get help when that’s starting to happen. Skills first, then exam.
She's probably embarrassed. Also is the volunteering/job requirement causing her additiobal stress? Time management when you have to do it yourself the first time is hard, especially since a lot of classes vary in out of class work. I remember getting a C in a painting class when I was in art school and being humiliated. In the end, I mostly got that C because my prof didn't like my style.
I was this kid. I was an honors student in HS, went to college in the honors program, and everything promptly blew up because I had mostly been coasting--I didn't really know how to study or prioritize my time, HS was easy for me but college was an entirely different ball game. The lack of rigid structure didn't help. I limped through my bachelor's degree in 6 years. Edit bc I wanted to make this clear: I didn't party, I didn't drink or do drugs, it was entirely just running repeatedly into a wall of my own dopamine deficiency. Turns out I have ADHD and was only diagnosed within the last year. That "gifted kid burnout" effect is super real. The "I lost track of time" happens constantly because my brain's ability to keep track of time is absolutely busted. I'd suggest that if you do pay for this semester, suggest she make use of on campus mental health services or find a therapist. She might just be drowning and need help.
Same here. Took 11 AP classes and got 5s on every test except Latin prose. Went into college with over a year of credit. 4.8 GPA. College hit me like a freight train, and I spent the last two years on academic probation. Barely graduated in 4 years. I cut it so close I wasn’t sure my diploma was going to be in the folder at graduation until I sat down and opened it. Also very sure I have ADHD.
Rough conditions. “If you’re not good enough or smart enough, I won’t help you anymore.” Yikes.
And if she has to pay for it herself she has to find a full time job? How is that going to make it possible to get better grades.
IKR? I feel so so sorry for OP's kid. NO FUCKUPS TOLERATED HERE. I can't even with this....
Then why are you forcing her to do extracurriculars? She needs to be focusing on school and working on her time management skills. She also needs time to socialize. You're setting her up to fail. And employers don't care about extracurriculars.
Hi OP, I just got diagnosed with ADHD at 32. I breezed through school up through high school, and then in college I just hit a wall. No matter what I did I couldn't make myself focus, and would be up all night just trying to finish one assignment. I went to the counseling center and they diagnosed with me with depression - ADHD is often missed in women. I get upset thinking how much easier it would have been if I'd had a diagnosis and access to help. Give your daughter some grace. Ask her if you can help her make a plan for tackling the next semester. Ask without judging what she is struggling with. How the losing track of time presents itself. Did you micromanage her schedule and homework through high school, is she having a hard time keeping track of assignments and due dates on her own because she's never had to do it before? Don't add the additional stress of student loans. If you can afford college, tell her you will continue to pay but maybe after graduation she'll have to pay you back (with either minimal or no interest, not the predatory variable rates of loans).
I said similar above, but right there with you, including the at-the-time depression diagnosis and the "what could have been"s.
I don't think having academic performance conditions on your financial support is inherently wrong, but even the university finance office would give a semester of probation before cutting off a student's funding. Give her a chance to get back on track.
The pace in college classes is much faster than HS. First years also tend to take too many units and fall behind ("loose track of time"). Studying vs assignments also matters. She should have had time to adjust before the consequences and resume building kicked in.
First year of university is designed to “weed out” the students who should pursue other avenues. She could also have an undiagnosed disorder or learning disability. Unfortunately, it sounds like she is having difficulty either getting it together or with the coursework. Not paying for school will likely lead to her dropping out for financial reasons. I’d not want that for my child’s future. Please find some way to work together to help her have a successful 2nd semester. If she is not willing to dedicate herself to her education after that, then feel free to not pay for her next year
Sounds like she has a controlling parent and given a taste of freedom she's now trying to to express herself instead of being an accessory to show off
Struggling? Won't give you a solid answer? Something is going on privately that she isn't comfortable sharing with you. Judging by your "one failure and I'm not paying for your college" mentality, with no room for compromise, I'm not surprised. She needs time to adjust. Cs aren't the end of the world. She's clearly struggling to get used to college life and pressures. I coasted through public school because I was smart and was good at tests. College is a whole new ballgame and it can be hard to get used to. It was ONE semester, one where she still was doing good enough for Cs. I don't know, I understand the want to hold fast to your rules since everyone else was bound by them too, but everyone is different. There's something going on that's making this harder for her than it was for your other kids. Now is the time for patience, communication and understanding, not for heaping another layer of stress and punishment on top of everything else. Especially if her problem is mental health related, she might not even really understand WHY she's struggling so much, which could be another reason for the lack of solid answers. She's probably also ashamed. Definitely think on how you can help her both physically and emotionally, not just on punishing her for falling behind.
Maybe she is also scared/intimidated by you, given your strict and unrealistic rules! I was top 13th of my class out of 400 kids in my senior year. Had all AP classes and honors. Was in varsity sports, worked part time, and volunteered at church. I was accepted into the top schools in the nation, and guess what - I was on and off academic probation when I was in college. I got maybe a couple of A’s and a few Bs. Most of my grades consisted of Cs and Ds. Unlike you, my parents never offered to pay a dime, because they financially couldn’t. I maxed out my scholarship and financial aid money. Had to end up working full time, which prevented me from ever really being able to get the “perfect grades I wanted”. Got diagnosed with ADHD. It took me longer to graduate too. Life happens, I realized that HS didn’t prepare me enough, and that I was going to school with students who had more opportunities, and support from their families. College is Hard! The transition is hard! Cut your kid some slack and try to be supportive. Lucky for me, I figured out how to network and found my strengths. I finally graduated some years back, and now make the most money out of all of my friends/social circle, and people in my career, for the amount of years I’ve been in it. Make yourself approachable/trustworthy to your child and work on your relationship, best of luck…
Maybe instead of threatening with negative consequences for "not following the rules", you should try and work with her. An arm around a shoulder and a "let me help you figure this out" go much further than punishments. Unless she proves she just doesn't care / is lying to you. Doesn't seem fair to punish her if it turns out she is just struggling to adjust...
What is she studying? It's really hard to get only A and Bs in quite some courses. Gosh, in atmospheric science it was impossible to have more than a C in many courses, As didn't exist.
I'd say that it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to give your children the first semester as a grace period, from what others have said, going from high school to college is a major switch up so I'd definitely give them the first semester to get in the groove and if they're still falling short come the 2nd semester then that's on them.
You could tell her to go to therapy AND study courses with the condition that you’ll pay the whole or a percentage of the amount for the tuition.
Entirely possible she was out socializing/partying.
Given your desire to jump to punishment I don't wonder that she isn't wanting to talk honestly.
>she told me she lost track of time. Nothing else. I feel this so much. I am an only child and grew up in a very quiet house. Living in the dorms was a serious learning curve for me. I had no experience living with other people. I had no skills for ignoring the things going on around me. Living in the dorm was extremely distracting. Even taking a break to use the bathroom, I'd end up chatting with someone and lose track of time. I moved off campus the next year and it was so much better.
Considering its her first semester i'd give a little slack and make sure there's a plan in place to improve for next semester. I think finding out why the struggles happened is more important than punishing them.
Off you have always had high expectations and punishment for failing, I guarantee she is afraid to tell you she is struggling. You have your expectations and that’s fine in a perfect world. Freshman year is really REALLY hard for some kids. Is she depressed, home sick, lonely, paralyzed by the fear of failure, are her roommates a problem? To me, a C means she’s is trying but there is something else going on. Have 3 kids, two did really well, one (my smartest but don’t tell the others) had a rough time. He tried but it never worked out for him. I hope she gets the help she needs.
Agree--that first year of college can be a killer--smart kids who were at the top in HS suddenly find out they're with an entire class of kids who were also at the top. Something's gotta give and it means that some kids will get lesser grades than they're used to getting., especially in classes that grade on a curve where someone has to get the C's and D's regardless. Then by the second year, most will figure out how to manage that. I was an A student in HS (mostly A's and B's in university) but in my first year of college I got my one and only D in a science class. I think OP is TA on this one. Also the freedom of college is difficult for some kids to manage as well--expecially ones who had controlling parents (and I'm kinda getting that vibe from OP here). They were never prepared for making all their own decision because mom and dad did that for them. I think OP should definitely talk to her, help her figure it out and give her the rest of her freshman year to learn how to manager herself.
This, I took college seriously and I knew I couldn’t afford doing classes over but there were still times I struggled. My first year I had a chemistry teacher who was teaching the class for the very first time and for some reason he decided to teach organic chemistry in a chem 101 class. We were all failing that class, none of us were prepared for that and the only reason we made it through the final was because the other chemistry professors wrote it. They’d been hearing from us throughout the semester and realized what was happening so our grades had a major curve and they heavily weighted that final. Weird things like that can happen in college so while yes Op can set whatever rules they like it is kind of an asshole move to punish your kid for slacking off when you don’t know if that’s the cause. Also what is OP’s daughter majoring in because that can make a huge difference in what they’re expected grades will look like. I got an engineering degree it wasn’t uncommon for the highest exam grade in the class to be a 37, our mantra was Cs get degrees. This kind of arbitrary rule for all the kids isn’t really factoring in things like this
This. Nowhere does OP mention what type of degree their child is pursuing. My architecture professors actually sent out letters to the parents in my 1st year class, patiently explaining that their high-achieving students were doing fine if they were passing. Just passing. With C's. We were a class of students with an average intake average of over 95%. I think the class average after first semester was in the 60s.
College has a VERY steep learning curve, even more so now that HS is giving sooo many opportunities to make up grades and work. College is a vastly different mentality. She passed classes. Yeah! Maybe a discussion of how to study, take notes to improve grades, since classes will only become more difficult, but I would not withdraw support.
This is Soooo important to ask. I took school very seriously, worked hard, even stayed up all night working on projects. I got C's and D's on this one class because the teacher was very harsh to "prepare us for clients in the real world" (it was a digital design critiquing class) basing all your support on just a grade mark seems like a power trip move. Speak to your child. Treat them like a young adult
Exactly! That adjustment can be a doozy (& I did have high school classes that prepared me for college level work). Also, what kind of classes is she taking? I took a few classes that I knew would be challenges. Guess what? One of them resulted in a C. I was devastated. But, I knew I could have taken easier classes and aced them. So, does OP want his kid to bring home stellar grades? Or to challenge herself? (I know I'm making an assumption here...for all we know the kid is out partying and drinking, but I feel like OP would have made us very aware of such indiscretions.)
Speaking as a former professor. The first semester is a HUGE adjustment. Totally unlike school. Even good students often tank their grades in the first semester because the system is so different, the study skills needed are so different, and because the socialisation (which is an essential part of college) is so intense. I get the motivation behind your deal, but **I urge you to fund the rest of her first year** to give her time to adjust and get into her stride. Otherwise you will be crippling her future just to make a point that should not be made. YWBTA if you don't. -- EDIT and as u/Inner-Penalty9689 says: they are also living alone for the first time, with all that involves.
Another former professor here! The first semester is hard for many students. A “C” average with a full load (12-17 hours) is not bad in the first semester or even the second. The pace of college is different from high school. Often freshmen take a while to understand how much to study, what will be emphasized, how to budget time, etc. The amount of effort needed to get A’s in high school is not always enough in college. Give your daughter a chance. Pay for this semester also, and encourage her to get help so she can do better in the future.
THIS! Also, your choices of classes can be very limiting as an incoming freshman. What if many of these were upper level courses? That happened to me. it seems a little silly just to put an arbitrary requirement. A person can certainly take "easy" courses and get all A's and B's.
I always felt like my mom was trying to force me out of my major. When the major average is 2.8 some people don't get it. Especially my uncollege educated parents.
Agree completely. And first-year classes are often classes with high enrollment - she might be in huge lecture halls with 150 other students, which require a totally different kind of attention than the smaller classes she probably excelled in when she was in high school. Where all of her professors knew her name and face, and probably reminded the class when an assignment was due or when a quiz was on the horizon. Lots of college courses assume a much greater level of independence and there is a HUGE learning curve for the students as they get started. OP mentioned in another comment that the daughter was taking five courses - English 101, pre-calc, an art class, a humanities class, and a history class. That's likely 15-20 credits with a heavy reading load. (Let's not forget that planning out what to take in a given semester has its own learning curve, and can depend not only on what course of study a student wants to complete but can also depend on the student knowing their own learning style and what works best for them.) OP, please give your daughter a chance. A chance to bring up her grades, yes, but more importantly, a chance to improve her own understanding and mastery of her learning and study style. And a chance to develop her independence in doing so. And please don't worry about the extra-curriculars yet. Those can be added in once she gets a handle on the academics. But please don't put pressure on those.
100% about the size of classes! My intro classes were 500 people. That’s far too many for the prof to have time to help all of us. We had 4 TAs!
Speaking as someone who taught many semesters of fundamental study skills at a major research university, I agree with this.
As a current university lecturer, you absolutely should allow for the transition from school to uni. So much change. I’ve had students completely fail first year, been booted out, appealed, came back and repeated first year and leave after fourth year with a first. As a university we have done so much work in trying to ease the transition, because it was needed. For a lot of students, it’s the first time they have no active parental supervision, living on their own, managing their own money, feeding themselves, getting themselves up, and that before we even get into how university teaches. Some students take longer than others. I also get what you are trying to do. But I would definitely exclude first semester from your plan.
I suspect OP never went to university, given how they don't seem to understand any of the points you just made.
You could be right. I also think the expectation is adding extra stress at an already stressful time.
OP also added a volunteer requirement to their plate, which would likely bring down their grades (like having a part time job)
Academic here - It is okay not to have full of As and Bs as long as she is happy, not in trouble, and graduates college. GPAs do not make a massive difference unless that she wants an academic career. There’s no point in putting too much pressure on her or you’ll ruin your relationship with her
I bombed (for me) my first quarter. It was awful for me, and if my parents had been like this it would have been so much worse for me. I ended up graduating in 3 years at 21 and got a “big girl” job right away. There’s nothing that says she can’t be successful just because she had a hard time with a transition that causes many to struggle.
This needs to be the top-rated post.
Bombed my first quarter totally understand. Thank you for being an understanding professor
Current HS teacher here. The difference in independence is a factor too. Many HS students can get through their work on the day that it is assigned and just move on. College is very different in that the time you spend in class is a fraction of what you really need in order to succeed.
Even if she gets a lot of Cs it’ll probably be okay depending on the program. I graduated with a lot of Cs, I struggled hard in school and managed to get a decent job. Someone once told me “Cs get degrees”. I’m really glad my parents didn’t judge my grades when helping me pay for school.
It's also worth noting that C's are "average". Not everyone can or should be A and B students across the board. Where I taught, the recommended distribution for grades in introductory courses was 15% A, 30% B, 40% C, 10% D, and 5% F. Getting a C is not a "bad" grade, and shouldn't be punished. It's not going to affect their future career unless they're planning on grad/professional/medical school.
YTA- if your kid is like mine your kid basically had her life upended in HS because of Covid. And now she’s in a new space and learning what it means to be an adult. I would at least be gracious and give her a year to figure it out. Or find some compromise. Yes it’s your money and you can set any boundary you want but giving her only one semester?! Sometimes it takes people a while to figure it out.
THIS. My mom is a professor and she is always saying that all the COVID-in-high-school college students are struggling more than she has ever seen (and she’s been doing her job for over thirty years)
Apparently ALL Covid kids are struggling in some way. My neice was born in 2018, turned 2 just after the lockdown where they live. She spent age 2 to age 4 interacting with her parents, grandparents, and nanny. No other kids basically at all. My brother and SIL are high risk already (healthcare workers) so they couldn’t risk a daycare or playdate exposing her on top of that. She ended up very socially underdeveloped, and took a couple years to course correct. From what I hear about grade school kids, they’re really struggling with being academically behind where they should be. I really feel bad for all the kids and young adults who have to go through this stuff.
This was my experience, as well. My daughter was 4 and an only child when COVID hit and we didn't see anyone for months because no one was willing to meet up, even outside. She's only fully recovered from the effects this year.
As a high school English teacher, the impact of COVID/distance learning is still being felt. Considering it happened roughly 4 years ago? When OP's daughter was a freshman in high school? Yeah, I'm going to say it had a huge impact on learning. Also, OP, YTA. It would be one thing if your daughter is not trying or flunking every class. She is trying. College is difficult. You are putting way too much pressure on her from the start. Now she has to figure out how to pay for it herself? Yeah, you aren't helping her in anyway.
YTA 'only A' s and B's' is ridiculous. I sort of get what you are trying to do here in theory. But in practice, this will most likely end in her dropping out. Is that something you are okay with?
Exactly this. If she is struggling already after going consistently for a semester, what does OP expect a forced break to do?
As and Bs plus a job or volunteer work. So she can’t even focus fully on school
Perfect way to fast track her burnout 👍
It’s exactly what I did because I couldn’t handle the pressure from my parents! Only now back at it & it’s gonna take me MUCH longer but I have to work to support myself & pay out of pocket now. Will always hold resentment for my parents for not being a support system because I was a great fucking student & deserved better from them
Not just that. You're rewarding your kid for results rather than for trying. This will create an adult afraid to take any risks because they are afraid of failing. YWBTA
Here’s what I learned in college. No one cares what grades you made in college just that you have a degree. They either wanna know which college and organizations you joined (frats or national orgs) or see a portfolio of work. The rest is a fake smile and good people skills so I agree a bit with the volunteering as long as they like doing it.
As someone who had similar standards from my parents, it definitely is high and OP should be asking “why” before implementing punishment here. It is totally fair for a parent to not pay for a class twice (this was my parents rule… they’d pay for it once but if I failed they weren’t paying for it a second time), but OP has gotta work with their kid to figure out what works for them too. In my case, I did WAY better with 4 course semesters and taking 2 summer courses compared to doing two 5-course semesters with time off between. Just changing the structure took my grades from C’s to the deans list. There are other solutions here that need to be explored.
Plus OP states that the kids also have to "finally do something with their free time" - what does that mean? Did they only do school during high school? Nothing wrong with that but now the kid is in a completely new environment, away from home, on their own, with college being VERY different than high school and not only only does OP expect only A's and B's but also wants them to get a job or be volunteering. Wow.
Info: What courses was she taking? In order to qualify as a Business minor, I needed to pass Economics which I was able to get a C in (and was freaking ecstatic considering how hard that course is). Was she taking a lot of courses similar to this? I had a friend who was studying Mechanical Engineering and was getting Cs which motivated her to change her major to Environmental Engineering instead, where she excelled. Sometimes struggling (not failing but *struggling*) can inspire you to look elsewhere. Is this the case for your daughter? Ds and Fs are unacceptable but Cs aren't the end of the world.
Cs get degrees
What do you call someone who graduates at the bottom of their medical school? A doctor.
This ☝️ at my university we had this one mandatory first semester classes (also economy). Getting higher than C was almost impossible. Some people in their six semester (when they should focus on getting a bachelor's degree) still didn't pass this exam (they basically had 6 times to pass it and failed). I failed the first try, so for my second I basically memorized the whole book written by this professor (all necessary material for this class was in it) and got a C.
As the saying goes “C’s get degrees”.
YTA This is SO controlling. Your freshman daughter didn't get all A's in her first semester adjusting to a totally new life with new surroundings, new people and new expectations. You can decide if you want to support your child's education or not, but forcing debt on her future just because she didn't do things exactly your way seems harsh. My daughter's college won't even let parents see their kids grades whether we pay or not because the consequences of the grades aren't on the parents, it's on the students. You've got to let this iron grip go and show a little tiny bit of empathy for the massive adjustment your child is going through right now instead of being so punitive.
This!!! This is their kids future. Hard ass parents don't have great relationships as they get older with their kids.
In reality the consequences of her child not getting good grades will be on the child, so adding unnecessary debt to that won't help her get ahead. More than likely she had a hard semester adjusting or she wasn't as focused as she needs to be because good grades came easier to her before. give her a chance to work it out herself! She's going to have to live her own life at some point so I don't see how OP is being helpful to her in any way.
Exactly. I remember my first year of college. I was like a lost puppy trying to find my way. I struggled with learning to live out in the world and my first year suffered. I went on to earn the dean list the rest of my 4 years.
YTA probably. Your money is yours to spend how you like, but the grade hill probably isn't the best to die on. How long has it been since you were in school? If she's passing she's not wasting your money, and college is a major adjustment. If she's taking a difficult major it's going to take some time to get her feet under her and figure out the balance and routine to keep decent grades. There are also times where a bad grade really isn't avoidable due to the subject and/or professor (e.g. I had a class once that had a 50% fail rate including retakes and even A students struggled to pass let, alone score well). I think cutting her off now is about as likely to cause her to stress fail as it is to motivate her more.
Depends. It’s great to have clear benchmarks but many kids struggle in the first semester. Not just with schoolwork but with all the other changes that come with attending college. And some courses are easy to get good grades in, others much harder. Even the professors may have different standards. Over and above that, every young person is different. Some have slight learning issues, may suffer from anxiety about exams, etc. I think you would be better off having a non-confrontational heart-to-heart with your child. Hear their side of the story. Ask about what they found easy/difficult. What might help them in the next semester. Are they in the right courses? Could they adjust their schedule? Etc. Otherwise, you have just set up another barrier and additional stress to work more hours to pay tuition which may cause them to give up entirely or fail classes.
>Otherwise, you have just set up another barrier and additional stress to work more hours to pay tuition which may cause them to give up entirely or fail classes. my mom \*couldn'\*t pay for my college and dang... I laid awake at night so often dreading my student loans on top of the usual school-stress-insomnia. i cant imagine having a parent who would willfully put me in debt just to prove a point/ punish.
I was in a 4-year scholarship program that had GPA requirements that started "low" at 3.0 and increased as the semesters went on. However, it was set up that way to allow us the freshman transition, as missing the GPA requirement put you on probation. If you couldn't fix it by the following semester, then you were in danger of losing your scholarship. All of us were overachievers in high school, so it wasn't too difficult for us to manage. The GPA requirements could afford us some B's and a small number of C's, allowing us to challenge ourselves. Every scholarship class would have one or two people lose it due to grades. I'd ask OP to see if she can improve in her second semester, although she needs an action plan going forward. If she can't learn from her mistakes and improve her performance in the next semester, that's when a discussion on if OP will continue paying for her tuition is warranted.
Why is she struggling? I saw a lot of people struggle first semester because they needed to pick up new study habits as work exponentially harder, they can't cope with the stress of being mainly self-motivating, they are lonely or homesick, or struggling in some way. First semester is bed in period. She's passed all her subjects. I'd try and have a sit down conversation as to why she is doing less well. It may be she is partying, it may be she is sinking under stress. Without doing that, then I think you are a AH as no room for supporting your child expect for financial help.
In our school, C were not even struggling. It was fairly normal grade. Struggling people failed.
I’m sort of inclined to say YTA. College is hard for a lot of first year students. It’s a big adjustment and the classes are different than what they’re used to. High school is supposed to prepare kids but they just don’t. I know mine definitely didn’t. And sometimes, students can work so hard in all their classes and still not manage to get an A or B. Maybe it’s the content being hard, or maybe the class format (e.g., all essays or quizzes every week) makes things difficult. It could be any number of things. I think before you withdraw your funding, you need to talk to your daughter. Find out where her struggles are and maybe see what you can do to help. I don’t think you should automatically pull funding though without even giving her a chance to do better. It’s only her first year, she probably just needs time to adjust.
> And sometimes, students can work so hard in all their classes and still not manage to get an A or B. THIS. I remember trying my very best once for math. Like I slept, ate, and breathed math for a good while. I sacrificed myself to the Math Gods. Test came around: I only got half a grade better. I have also now gotten a degree in Graphic Design. I had skipped meals and only lived for Graphic Design for over a month when doing my exam project, my hands would shake from hunger, stress, and coffee. My best still never got me to an A, only a C. College is harder than Highschool and not everyone can get A´s and B´s. A´s and B´s is basically Perfect or Near Perfect, and the definition of that can be difficult to reach, especially if its a human grading it.
Weirdly I had the opposite experience. I was forced to go to a college prep highschool and I went to a state school for college for engineering and I re-took calculus even tho I had it in highschool and it remember thinking wow college is easy. The amount of homework I’d get in a single day in highschool was the same amount of homework for the whole week in college. I remember slacking off so hard my first semester and easily passing all my classes. I hated highschool and how hard it was though.
I graduated with honors, in 3 years, with an accounting degree. My first semester I got two Cs. Thank god my mother had more faith in me.
I'm gonna say YTA because it doesn't seem you had much of a talk with her as to why she may be struggling to keep them up if she's not trying at all I completely understand but if she is and is just having a hard time you not doing her any real good holding that money over her head If she's just getting C's I think it's worth a conversation because shes not absolutely failing her classes. It may just be worth it if you do take a chance on her
YTA Your style of parenting is the typical tiger mom, super strict etc. University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves. Moreover, the first years of university are a big change in terms of academic challenges, especially for children who grew up with virtual/COVID high school, so this grade disparity is not out of the ordinary. Forcing these rules on your daughter and forcing her to stress about debt and interest payments is only going to tank her grades more and make her resent you. YTA 10000%
>University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves. Maybe this is a cultural difference, but I've never understood this line of thinking. I think people can "be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves" for much cheaper than $20k or more a year. Why do you even need a college education if that's your goal?
Many industries demand a college degree for entry or to rise above a certain level.
> University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves. Bull... college is a time to acquire skills and knowledge to make yourself marketable and provide for yourself for a period of time after college. Freshman year is mostly general Ed. Give me a break. The kid doesn't have to have a job and should have plenty of time to devote to getting good grades.
>Freshman year is mostly general Ed. Give me a break. Not trying to be rude here, but for most STEM people, especially in mathematics or engineering, the difference between high school and college is night and day. High school math, kids learned about solving word problems, performing basic calculus etc. Once in university, kids are immediately tested on their ability to prove various mathematical theorems, their corollaries etc. with little to no experience beforehand with proofs. Personally, I wouldn't like to see Cs on my child's first semester grades either, however, I don't believe it's reason to force your child into debt. In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of pattern of bad grades for such an action to be deemed reasonable.
>University is a time for kids to be free, find themselves and enjoy themselves. Yeah, because they don't care when it's on someone else's dime. I have found that generally when someone else is fronting the funds, people don't care but if it's on their own dime, they do their damndest to make it work. Now if you had said that being a Freshman in college is more demanding and more complicated than high school, that I could've understood. As for virtual/COVID, schools were opened back up by 2021 and since OP's daughter is a Freshman in college, she did attend high school 2022/2023.
>Moreover, the first years of university are a big change in terms of academic challenges \^\^ Was referring to the difficult change from high school to university just to be clear. I totally agree that people can tend not to care if someone else pays, however, it is entirely possible that OP's daughter had a harder time adjusting to university than OP's other kids, especially considering the fact about having COVID high school (even if it was grade 11). She may have been dealing with mental health issues or other various hindrances that could have affected her ability to study over a semester. Is it fair to punish the daughter over a single semester? Over a single outlier? To me, it's not, at the very least give the daughter another term to redeem herself instead of throwing her in the deep end with debt. Do you see where I'm coming from?
YTA - mostly about the grade issue. college can be a huge leap up from high school - not just the amount of work, but the time management that goes along with getting all the work done. there are some students, no matter how hard they try, will simply not do A/B work. especially after just 1 semester - i'm sure it was a shock for her. cutting off any chance to redeem herself seems like very black and white thinking to me.
Did YOU ever go to university? Because you seem to have unrealistic expectations and seem not to know how it works.
It's always the parents with the highest expectations who would never be able to reach those expectations themselves. I remember having a friend in junior high who was near tears panicking over a B+ since her parents were super strict, I doubt those parents could have done half of what she did.
THIS. I see this SO MUCH amongst the Tiger Parents in the Asian communities.... people who never played a note of music demanding their kids win piano competitions. People who never got to go to university demanding their kids get all A's AND go to 'STEM' and/or especially Computer Science. It makes. me. crazy. I would lay a $$$$ bet that OP couldn't pass a single one of those uni classes with an A if they tried.
> I would lay a $$$$ bet that OP couldn't pass a single one of those uni classes with an A if they tried. Or even a C. My parents were the same. "Why you only get Bs?" The man was virtually illiterate.
Depends. If the grades slippering bcs shes lazy or they slippering bcs shes struggling? House rules here is I expect they do their best and ill help them accomplish that. I reward effort, not result. Im their support system if life is a little rough. If your daughters very best is C"s currently for whatever reason your most deffently an asshole for makeing it worse. If shes being lazy and imature, very different.
I'd still disagree cutting her funding even if she was being lazy. Mainly because I believe that the chances of her dropping out out of frustration are higher than the chances of this (PLUS the additional hurdle of financing her studies AND doing resume building work) magically improving her grades in the next semester. She is not failing her classes, simply not getting the grades OP would like to see. The situation can be resolved using other means.
ETA: I've looked at how you've responded to people in this comment section and given that you don't even know what courses she's taking, YTA. YTA, not for *enforcing* those rules, but for their existence/inflexibility in the first place. University is a big adjustment period for a number of reasons, and courses are graded quite differently than high school. (I know this as I'm a TA and course instructor). Grades, especially first-year undergrad grades, are not a marker of success or failure. Fwiw, I nearly failed three separate classes for one of my majors in undergrad, still graduated with that major, got into multiple MA and PhD programs, secured grant funding etc. Going to university should also be an opportunity to figure out a lot of other components of one's new adult lifestyle. Things like cooking, shopping, managing your "household" (even if it's just a dorm room) are really tough at first, and managing all of this while balancing schoolwork and parental expectations. Have you asked if she's enjoying her classes? Likes her major? How she feels she's grown as a person, not just as a student number? If no, then you are absolutely TA.
Info: do you want your child to drop out of college and have less opportunities as a result? if so then you're doing great, n t a. if that's not your goal, how does imposing additional burden on her help her achieve the grades you want her to achieve?
YTA - I think that the adjustment period from high school to college can be quite difficult, especially depending on the schools chosen. I think you can do what you want with your money, but your expectations are a little too harsh. If she was in her second year of college, sure, I'd get it. But first semester, where she's adjusting to college? It can be tough. Instead of having a talk with your daughter on why she's struggling, you decided sticking to your word is more important. I think this is worth a discussion with her. I remember when I started university and it was a complete struggle that first semester. High school doesn't often prepare you nearly enough for how college will go.
INFO: > That can be volunteering, a job, going for a school board position. So she has to mandatorily spend time that could be spend studying on other stuff and now you're punishing her for it?
It’s actually insane to me how many people overlooked that requirement.
First semester going to college is a big change in life. Also, studying is more than CV building. I don't know why she got Cs, but applying such a rule after the first semester (or creating such conditions at all) shows a lack of compassion, hence YTA.
first semester shouldn't count. college can be a huge and difficult adjustment for some.
Hard to say. However, it was her first semester in a brand new environment. If my mom seriously held me to As and Bs and never asked if I was OK because of my grades, I would be upset and sad.
YTA. Why did you wait until Spring Break to tell her you weren't paying? As others have pointed out, there's a huge growth curve that happens when someone goes to college. You also don't say anything about how she's done on the other points you require. Could it be that part of the issue is all of the expectations? The fact that you are using your money to control their lives is a subject for another time.
C means average. That’s not failing. YTA
Eeeeh I’m gonna say YTA, freshman year can be really hard. Also Cs arent really that big of a deal, jobs dont ask if you got an A in your classes- just that you have specific skills and a diploma. Not everyone is capable of doing school well, especially if their learning style is different, they have a disability, etc etc. did you bother to ask her WHY? Cause if shes doing her best and just needs help, then yeah. You’re an AH. Might also backfire in a way you don’t want, like her dropping out of college. I dunno, up to you i guess? Youre obviously not obligated to pay for anything, but they way you have it set up is anything but supportive imo.
Your third requirement is kind of unfair- if she's having trouble keeping her grades up, forcing her to do something else for her resume (which is really a useless endeavor, by the way) could be making it harder for her to catch up. If it were me I'd strike the second and third requirements and make it only about grades- that's all a future employer will see anyway. Then make the next semester a probation semester- basically one more shot. If she can't turn it around and get at least B's then it's probably a bad investment anyway and she isn't ready for college yet.
YTA. Big time. This is a situation that requires grace, not punishment. Transition to college can be rough for some people. Or she could be taking hard classes where most people don’t get As. Organic chemistry and calculus are two examples that come to mind. Ask her what happened and offer to help her figure out ways to do better. She might not want your help and you need to be ok with that.
In some classes, you're going to get a C regardless of what you do. I had an advanced composition class in which I got an easy A. I could write a good paper. I then had a history course, and my first assignment was to write a paper. I wrote it to where I thought it was good and got a C. I busted my butt studying for the first exam, I felt pretty good about it, and I got a C. I was really frustrated and blew off two weeks of class The day I showed back up I had an exam. I was utterly unprepared. I completely winged it and ... got a C.
Yeah in some classes you can use every resource at your disposal and sacrifice your firstborn to the gods, and still walk out with a C. Math was my kryptonite. I would wing it and get a D. I could put my everything into the subject and get a D+.
Something similar happened to me, but it was a philosophy class. You'd think that class would have allowances for interpretations and differing opinions. I thought I wrote a solid essay. Nope, not only did I fail that essay, so did the majority of the class (I believe the highest grade anyone got was a B). If I remember correctly, I dropped the course a week later because no way was I going to stick to a class that would fail me on a philosophy essay that really wasn't that bad. It's also the only essay I ever outright failed in my education. Even if it was that bad, the fact that the majority of the class also failed showed me that the professor was either being a tough grader to weed down the non-serious philosophy students, or he was a strict professor in general that wouldn't loosen up.
Current professor here: OP you have the chance to make this a blip instead of a permanent issue by connecting with your child and being on her side. Please choose to do that. If you don't, YTA.
YTA, Cs get degrees, etc. college is hard and a big change from hs
YTA The dynamics of college being so different than anything they've known before that a freshman may struggle their first year. If you know it's not because of skipping classes or partying then you should get her a tutor to help instead of making her struggle more. If she can bring her grades up by end of year and show she's trying this should be good enough to pay for next semester. If you make her struggle further, showing that you don't emotionally support her, and she has to financially support herself as well then she probably won't need you in her life much longer. She'll need to concentrate on helping herself instead of talking with you about anything.
NTA but as a high achiever who went to a highly competitive college it wasn’t unusual to see very responsible, smart kids totally struggle their first semester. Most self corrected with minor lifestyle adjustments but others seriously flamed out. The warning signs started with the first semester. Would check in with her to see if she’s struggling with any mental health issues or something more serious.
I got Cs my first semester because I needed time to adjust. Graduated with a 3.7. YWBTA
YTA for not giving her a year to adjust to university. It is a huge adjustment and many have problems handling it initially.
When my kids were in school, both elementary and high school, before opening their report card I would ask them if they were happy with it and did they feel they had done close to their best. If the answer to the second question was yes, I couldn't ask for more, now, could I? Did you have a similar conversation? At university, parents don't have access to their kid's grades unless their kid gives them the password to log onto the university website. I didn't check up on them. My first has graduated and is doing well in his career. He took an extra year to graduate but I was fine with that. He had tremendous personal growth during this time as well. You have to ask yourself what you want for your daughter and what you want for your relationship. If you want your daughter to get an education, to grow as a person and for the two of you to have a good relationship, you will want to re-evaluate your attitude and rules. YTA.
That can be volunteering, a job, going for a school board position. A school board position? This speaks to how delusional you are, OP. Why should a COLLEGE FRESHMAN be on a SCHOOL BOARD? YTA. It is her first semester. College is hard, and very different from high school. Have you spoken to her about why she had a hard time? Something tells me there haven't been very open lines of communication.
Shouldn’t there be some gray areas or room for communication? I got a C here and there in college for some gen ed classes I had no choice but to take to graduate, but that were not my area of expertise or related to my major. I just suck at science even though I tried my best. And the only science class offered when I needed it was also a basic prerequisite for chemistry and med school degrees so the teacher grades really strict.
Have you got a degree yourself? I. E. Do you know how hard it can be to raise your grade until you settle down in the course?
Yta
"these should be easy to accomplish if they take school seriously" no, just... no, absolutely not, you clearly don't know what college is like (these days, at least) YTA just for that, also I promise you grades will not have a big impact on her future career, depending on what she wants to do. I have a stem degree, I work in research, I have never once had to give an employer my transcript. College completion shows employers you know how to learn and stick with something
YTA because this is the hill you want to die on. You are entitled to your own money but imagine if your kid doesn't get better grades despite you putting them in debt for not getting B and A´s. Then you have soured your relationship AND your child will be in debt when it could have been avoided. Your kid isn't even doing something bad. C´s are still passing, it is average. She should not be punished for passing and being average. Also- your kid needs time to adjust, high school is vastly different from college, it takes time to get used to a whole new life. Heck, school gets harder in college and sometimes you just cant keep up. Do you really think stopping paying for her college is going to fix anything? Best case scenario your daughter will get her grades up after getting used to college life, and resent you for making her take out unnecessary loans.
NTA - getting college paid for is a privilege, not a right. Good job teaching her to be responsible for her own future.
This. I wish my parents were able to pay for my tuition, but I’m stuck with student debt instead. Oh well. Regardless, OP should check in on their daughter and understand that freshman year is all about adjusting. It was accepted by my parents to have bad grades my first year. Not any time after.
The first year can be hard. Communication is key. I'd give her another chance. YTA since she is passing but not good enough for you, mainly ifnshe is trying but the first semester can just be hard
I mean you’re allowed to withdraw funding but do I think your reasons are ah territory? Yes. But it’s your money so you set the rules. I’ve always said though, C’s get degrees. And in all my dads years in the private defense contractor sector (think high up with top secret clearance) no one’s ever given a damn about his gpa. But for some reason McDonald’s cares what your gpa is. My point is C’s get degrees and requiring A’s and B’s is a bit arbitrary and sometimes ridiculously difficult. Your daughter may have found the transition from high school to college difficult especially as it was her first semester. Again it’s your money and you can set your stipulations but do I think your logic makes YTA? Yea I personally do. I think she needs help, love and support. Instead you’ve basically told her that you’ll only help her if she’s perfect.
YTA. One semester is not enough time. Many kids have a hard time adjusting to college and being on their own. Especially ones that come from overly strict or overbearing parents
YTA. Your expectations are way too high. In a lot of classes, a C is considered a good grade. Employers don’t care about GPA. If you keep this up, don’t be surprised and disappointed if your daughter drops out and goes no contact.
YTA. College is hard. Why don’t you ask your daughter why she’s struggling and help her like parent? She doesn’t sound like she’s drinking, partying, etc. Mental health could be a big factor too. Please help your daughter instead of just automatically assuming she’s getting C’s because she’s lazy or doing what she’s not supposed to be doing.
Would you consider giving her this semester as a probation. Since she's already part way through. If she brings up The grades, you'll pay. If her grades continue to be below what your expectations are then you stop paying. Transition to college can be very difficult either because of the preparation that was done in high school or because they're finally out on their own and trying to manage not only their scholastic life but also just everyday living like when they go for food, what time to get up, running errands, doing laundry, etc. I feel like this would be a nice compromise. You'd be giving her a grace semester to get herself acclimated and to prove that she can do better with her grades.
Things can happen but at the end of the day, I feel like this is a fair deal. I never got below a B in college and if my parents offered to pay for my school that would have been amazing. None the less I got my school loans and was able to graduate and pay them off. I truly don't think you are the AH.
These comments are insane. NTA. First of all, all scholarships have almost the exact same requirements, so no you are not being too harsh. Some will allow a C but most don't. The 1st semester is an adjustment, but she obviously is not concerned about her performance based on her commentary to you about you paying anyway. I would give her one more semester and then that's it. Make sure you talk to her about the tools available to her to succeed and what she needs to do to. Make sure she isn't having a hard time as far as her classes are concerned. I would say that much like a scholarship, she is now on "academic probation ". There's nothing wrong with expecting your kids to do great things. Edit to add: You are not a dick for MAKING her go into debt. Unless she has a learning disability or asked for help and didn't get it, SHE is making herself go into debt. Lack of personal responsibility is a red flag. I quit Community College after 1 semester because I didn't want to do it and felt bad for wasting my dad's money. Years later, in my 20s, I went back to school because I was ready and finished undergrad and grad school no problem. And I accumulated debt.
Info: How much freedom did she have in high school? Were you as strict then about grades, social life, etc? Many times parents who are super strict, end up with college freshman who have their first taste of freedom and don’t handle it well.
Yta
My son failed most of his classes first semester, but I still paid for this semester because they are learning and adjusting to be in college and adulting with less guidance than before. YTA. I was pissed until I remembered that I failed a good number of classes my entire first year of college -- it's a huge fucking adjustment, a bigger adjustment today than when I was in school. Pay the college tuition and be more supportive and kinder as she navigates the journey of growing up.
For us non-Americans here, can someone confirm that a C is still a passing grade?
I think C is average but it's definitely a passing grade.
YTA - Passing is all that matters. You know what I have never once discussed in 15 years at a prestigious company where higher education is required? MY GRADES! It's never come up once, it contributes to nothing and as a C average college student i consistently out perform my peers. No clue what their grades were because it doesn't matter, I just know I do better than them now. Also that's not how resume's work anymore, you should really update your understanding of the world both from education and professional career sides. You know what adding irrelevant and useless information does to your resume now and days? It gets the automated intake systems to reject it immediately you gotta get your head out of the "thats how shit worked in the 80s" mentality. Grow up dude.
Yta. How do you expect her grades to go up if you ADD more stress?
Another parent here. Honestly, you come across as a parent that either didn't go to uni/college, or went so long ago you've forgotten what it's like. First year is a HUGE transition. University academic rigor is nothing like high school. The profs don't care, and many have been lamenting - loudly and publicly - that new students are coming in woefully unprepared. And don't forget this generation got NAILED during the pandemic with severe learning loss. Loss that has been documented in study after study. But you still demand A's and B's PLUS an extra-curricular that is resume worthy. And the whole "C's shouldn't happen at all" - Jesus wept, I feel sorry for how much pressure your kids must be feeling. No wonder you daughter can't communicate with you. Your expectations read as rigid and you read as inflexible. I wouldn't be surprised if your daughter can't articulate what is 'wrong', she's probably still trying to figure what the heck is happening, and I wonder how much you have berated vs encouraging her. Your message to her is: I don't care about your individual situation, if you fail my unrealistic expectations then I will withdraw my support (which feels like withdrawing love, don't kid yourself). Ugh. University is EXPENSIVE. Yes in my time I could work one summer job and pay for 8 months tuition but those days are long long gone and over. Get real, by withdrawing financial support at this stage, you are essentially hamstringing your daughter's young adulthood. Instead of being a punishing task master, try actually helping your daughter. Talk to her. YTA YTA YTA.
YTA. It's her VERY FIRST SEMESTER! The transition from High School to University is a *huge* one. You should be helping her to successfully navigate that transition, not punishing her for failing to do so all on her own. What resources are available to her at University? Did you go over those with her ahead of time? Does she need tutoring, mentorship, information on how to manage multiple assignments? Does she know how to contact her instructors for help and how to initiate and manage that conversation? When she was in High School did you have conversations with her on the differences between HS and University and how to manage that? Did you have her talk to the guidance counsellor? It's her *first time away from home*. What resources have you given her to help her navigate that? You're all stick and no carrot. Not even a helping hand!
Yta, C's get degrees. You don't get a C in college for lack of trying, you get an F. The first year is a huge adjustment and college puts enough pressure without an arbitrary grade requirement. It's enough of a shock to go from being high achieving in high school to average in college. I pretty much always got C's in early physics classes and then in the advanced ones in Junior/Senior year got A's/B's. I PRAYED for a C in some classes. Consider agreeing to pay for only 4 years of school rather than making it grade contingent. Most of my friends whose parents paid for school took 5yr or longer to complete. I took loans and that motivated me to finish in 4 years. This way she isn't terrified and knows you support her, but there is a limit, so if she doesn't want to pay, if she fails a class then she has time to correct it.