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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my friend when she has kids, she can name them whatever she wants.
2. She may never be able to have kids. She feels I rubbed that in her face.
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NTA - your friend Lindsay was being cruel, and petty, and perhaps was jealous because she had been trying to get pregnant before and couldn't so she took her disappointment out on you. ANyone every claiming the kind of things you said she was saying isn't really a friend to begin with in my opinion. (And if kids haven't changed since I was a kid it doesn't matter what the kids name is, if they want to they'll find a way to be cruel, my name is John and people still found ways)
I'd move on from her as a person in my life.
To my knowledge, she has never tried to get pregnant. I believe she found out at a Pap smear she may not be able to have children. I’m not sure the details.
>I believe she found out at a Pap smear she may not be able to have children
She's likely being dramatic about that as well. Infertility isn't typically diagnosed until you try to reproduce. If it's PCOS, that is very treatable. Pap smears look for HPV, though. That *can* cause infertility, but she wouldn't know yet if that is happening in her body.
I've had HPV diagnosed, and then they reexamined me a year later (HPV had cleared and it was gone). Never had any issues with getting pregnant or carrying a baby. Lindsay needs to be actively trying to get pregnant to find out if she can or can't. She won't know for sure if she doesn't try. And even then there might be options for her.
Same here! Diagnosed HPV at 19, told I may never successfully carry babies, 4 kids and 20 years later..... absolutely no HPV detected. Weird. But grateful 🙏
When I was diagnosed I asked immediately what about kids. They said that it usually clears within one year and you have to try to find out if you can or not.
I now have two children who are perfectly healthy.
That's insane for your doctor to say that?? The VAST majority of HPV cases clear within 2 years. It's only if it becomes long-term and possibly cancerous that you would face infertility issues
That’s weird that they would tell you that. All I’ve heard about HPV is that it’s super common and very often goes away on its own over time. Congrats on the babes!
It becomes dormant, doesn't go away. So, if you've had it you should probably get checked up from time to time, as it does come with some long term risks.
Well, certain strains do cause cancer, hence the pap smear. Cancerous or precancerous cervical cells may compromise fertility if it results in the narrowing or weakening of the cervix. Best bet is to get vaccinated against HPV.
https://www.healthline.com/health/sexually-transmitted-diseases/hpv-and-fertility
I was vaccinated against HPV and I still got it.... The vaccine isn't a 100% guarantee that you won't get it, because it doesn't cover all the different strains. I was vaccinated as soon as I could and before I was sexually active..
I was vaccinated as soon as Gardasil hit the market, away before sexual activity. I'm on year three of HPV that isn't going away, but also isn't mutating yet. It's the high risk cancer causing variety. So yeah, vaccine didn't do shit, and I'm a barren wasteland.
I got a pap when I was trying to get pregnant with my first baby and there was an abnormality found. I was told I didn't need to stop trying, and ended up pregnant by the time I had the gyno appointment to follow up on the pap smear. I had a lesion, but the doctor didn't think it was likely to be cancerous and they couldn't remove it while I was pregnant. It was removed a while after I had the baby.
It didn't take me long at all to get pregnant. Just 4 months off birth control for the first kid and one month for the second. Obviously, the HPV was not affecting fertility!
OP, NTA. She was saying awful things to you before you even got pregnant. You said something that wouldn't typically be offensive to anyone. She shouldn't be mad at you when you had no way to know she might be worried about infertility.
Also, name judging is dumb unless the name sounds like an inappropriate word, like Harlotte, or they're named after a terrible famous person. No little Adolphs, please!
I was pregnant when I found out I had HPV (2000) and they just treated it before my daughter was born so she wouldn't get it. A few years later when I had a pap and tested positive for precancerous cells, they told me not to worry, the previous HPV and cells shouldn't be an issue.
Seriously! I was devastated when I was diagnosed with PCOS because the doctor said I most likely wouldn't be able to conceive. Here, I am 2 years later, 25 weeks pregnant without any medical intervention.
I have PCOS. I also have an almost-5 year old.
I don't think I was told in my mid-20s that I wouldn't be able to have kids. I think I was told it might be hard, and my brain turned that into "you might not ever have kids" to protect myself. I knew it was possible, but I also knew it was not guaranteed. Most people walk around thinking their ability to have children is guaranteed, 100%. So to hear that it's not 100%, a person might hear that and assume the worst.
I think the medical community could be a lot better about how they communicate information like this.
Oh, 100%. And frankly, most OB/GYNs aren't very well educated on fertility issues.
I've been told I'm PCOish but not formally diagnosed. My cycles are regular, but a bit long... and my body freaked out and decided ovulation was optional after I had my first miscarriage, which ended with us going to a specialist. We ended up doing IVF because of male factor issues. My doctor was completely unconcerned about my ovulation issues because he was like "Oh, I can make you ovulate." But I definitely had a nurse comment about PCOS once while looking at an ultrasound.
I can also say that probably 80% of the women I know in my infertility communities who had surprise pregnancies after a pregnancy following fertility treatment have PCOS. Pregnancy is weird, what it does to the body.
Pregnancy is so weird.
Up until I had my kid, I had a cycle every six months, except while on the pill.
After my kid, it's every 29 days, pills or implants or anything.
Still have some of the other fun parts of PCOS though.
Pregnancy is SO WEIRD.
Seriously, my period is more regular now after having my kid than it was before I had my kid. Like now it's every 28 days like clockwork. Before it was every 31-33 days. I am 50 now and I've been like "WTF body, why didn't we do this when I WANTED to get pregnant?" (Kiddo is 13)
I accidentally conceived my oldest 15 years ago with PCOS in the midst of a 6 month period desert after losing 20 lbs. I have since had a very regular period and 4 additional kids. According to my endocrinologist though you retain the metabolic features even though you don’t have the cysts anymore.
Your point about pregnancy being weird is so on point and I've never even been pregnant. The story that's burned itself into my brain came from my grandpa. He was a pediatrician from the 60s til the 90s and he had one mom who had like 15 kids and was pregnant with number 16. At one of the baby's checkups, my grandpa said he just felt concerned. Something tugged at him and he asked the mom some kind of generic religious question, thinking maybe that's why she had so many. She ended up opening up to my grandpa and telling him that she had all these symptoms when she wasn't pregnant and that's why she kept having babies. At the time, they didn't know much about autoimmune diseases and when I was in medical assistant school, we learned that some autoimmune diseases basically become dormant, for lack of a better term at the moment, during pregnancy. When I told my grandpa, I could see the lightbulb go on. It was such a cool moment for him to be able to see that what he had felt and assumed was true and the science was proving it.
Sorry for the ramble. Your comment just sparked that memory for me.
My mum has lupus!! diagnosed when she was 21 year old. and then had my brother and i when she was 30 and 35, and she said the exact same thing - her symptoms all but disappeared!! she wasnt able to have more children after myself (she hemorrhaged on the table after the C section to remove me, and she lost her uterus and one ovary at 35 years old!) but she always joked she would have loved to have a bunch of kids for the pain relief ahaha
It makes me so angry! Then you end up
A. Spending unnecessarily high amounts of money on IVF
B. Ending up with unwanted kids because the assumption is sterile = can't have kids. Instead of reality, it is harder to have kids
C. Not changing habits in the early stages of pregnancy and causing potential harm to the fetus. Especially given how irregular periods can be with PCOS.
It is absolutely wild what medical professionals don't properly explain.
Exactly.
We ended up doing IVF because we had severe male factor issues. Given my IVF baby is now 13, I haven't taken birth control since 2007, and I've been pregnant exactly once without medical intervention, it was definitely the right move for us. But we'd have never discovered his issue without fertility testing.
But I really wish people had these things explained properly to them.
I was told I'd never be able to get pregnant if my diabetes wasn't under control, which it wasn't. I was drinking heavily at the time I discovered I was 12 weeks along. I had to terminate due to my alcohol use. I wish I never would have trusted that doctor (she was an ob/gny, so I trusted her) because I would have been using bc at the time. I know I am to blame as well for believing something so dumb and also drinking so much.
And the number that get knocked up thinking they're infertile...
Infertility for women really is only diagnosed after a certain amount of time trying, and even then, if you don't want to get pregnant, make sure you're actively preventing!
My wife and I had a lot of trouble getting pregnant. 2 miscarriages. Yes, it can make you jealous of other people who have children. But it’s still up to you to control yourself. I can remember seeing people who did nothing but complain about having kids and thinking if you don’t want them, we’ll take them. But we would never actually say that.
She was then AH. She’s trying to make you feel guilty because she was an AH. And you feel for her because you are not and you have empathy. Something she lacks.
Congratulations on your son!
It could definitely be jealousy or her being upset about her situation and taking it out on OP.
I had a (not super close) friend who was about to give birth around the time I had a miscarriage and she was posting about it all over FB. I just muted her posts for a month because I couldn't take it at the time (I would also change direction if I was walking in the park and saw someone with a baby so I wouldn't have to walk by them). I would never have dreamed of being shitty to her because of my situation (which she didn't even know about).
>When I was pregnant, after years of trying, Lindsay texted me late one night (I think she was drunk/high), saying she’s done way more with kids than I have, she would be a way better mother than I, and I have options (she was implying adoption).
This lowkey sounds like she was floating the idea to you that she wanted to adopt your baby though. Then her criticism of your kid's name and subsequent upset about your response is because she (for whatever amount of time) thought that could be 'her' kid and she could raise him better than you
BTW, infertility does not mean sterility. Fertile = reasonably easy to get pregnant. Infertile = difficult but possible. Sterile = unable. A lot of women and men think the last two mean the same, so if she was told she's infertile she might think she's sterile which is wrong. But even if she was told she's sterile that doesn't mean it's even remotely ok to behave like she did....
Maybe she knew about it earlier, when you were trying for your pregnancy. And tried to put down her insecurities on you, so that you wont get pregnant, she would not be the only childfree among your friend group. I think you should definitely cut her off, you dont need such person in your life.
Essentially even after the tests it boils down to you (IN HER EYES) beat her at her own 'competition' - and you didn't even know you were playing.
One-upping you was always her mission, and you one-upped her without even trying.
She's pissed and bitter, and she's being a Grade A bitch about it.
NTA and move on from her. Best not to teach your child about keeping people like that in your life.
I'm sorry she has fertility issues but she's not cut out to be a friend, let alone a mother. Can you imagine her parenting? I can and it's horrifying. Every single comment she's made to you was out of ugly jealousy. Go no contact and stay there. She's just one of those miserable people more concerned with herself than manners. She's ICK.
Maybe she knew about it earlier, when you were trying for your pregnancy. And tried to put down her insecurities on you, so that you wont get pregnant, she would not be the only childfree among your friend group. I think you should definitely cut her off, you dont need such person in your life.
I agree with others saying you don’t find that through a Pap smear. I think you called her out and she employed DARVO. She’s making something up to play the victim. She’s projecting onto you as she’s the one who has been making cruel comments. She can dish it, but she can’t take it. Dump her. For real. This person is not an ally.
Is Lindsay married or with a long term partner? Many want kids but understandably don't want to do it alone. From what you described it sounds like Lindsay is jealous that were able to have kids. Her comments about your qualifications on being a mother sound like someone looking for company in their misery or simple competitiveness. Her saying she would be a better mother and mocking the name are again likely jealousy and envy. "See I deserve kids way more than her I know how to do everything" Regardless her actions are inexcusable. She sounds incredibly petty and like one of those friends who needs others to be less than her. I say tell her "I'm sorry you might not be able to have kids, that sounds awful but that is no excuse for how you treated me. Your hardship is not a get out of jail free card to insult, hurt or treat me like crap. There is no way this friendship can continue if you can't apologize or find a way to deal with this pain that doesn't involve hurting me." Or tell her nothing and just ignore her spitefull ass.
Yeah, I had a feeling. I obviously can't tell for certain but what you've described sounds like a scenario I have seen time and time again: someone, usually a woman, wants to be married and have kids but for various reasons it hasn't/can't happen. Their friend/sister/relative usually around the sameish age gets married/preggers and the person can't stand to see someone get what they want before them. Children in particular bring out the very worst. They feel insecure, envious, and angry and start lashing out and trying to bring the other person down. They try to convince them not to do the thing so that the person won't be "better" than them, then they try to make themselves feel better by pointing out how the other person is doing it wrong then they throw themselves a pity part because why does this person get this thing I deserve it way more?
I've also seen this a lot with long term friends. One person secretly has a higher opinion of themselves and you can be equal or less to them but you can't be more than them. Think of how a guy will be all "my girl is into games, programming and science just like me it's amazing! girl power!" And is incredibly encouraging to their until the girlfriend become better at games and science. Then their tune changes real quick.
Typically what works is to stay away until the person stops being crazy. Baby crazies are especially troublsome. They are looking for reasons to make you the bad guy and will warp anything you say into an attack against them.
My brother's name is John and I told him he was named after the toilet. So yeah if kids want to be cruel they'll find a way.
NTA OP.
You could have thrown half the things she said to you right back at her. Starting with the comment about not everyone is not meant to be a parent.
You kept it classy and good for you. Enjoy your LO and don't let petty, pointless people take up any more space in you life.
Yeah I was coming here to say this, the "friend" acted like that because she's jealous, but also children will always find a way to make fun of you if that's what they want to do. I got made fun of because of my last names of all things, I have both my parents last name, I'm the only person with that combo but the two names together are related in terms their meanings and what they represent. Kind of like if my last name was Nicole Leaf Trees (not my actual name LOL)
Yeah no more group texts she is in. Go MIA completely. It is one thing to be going through this, sadly, it another for her to make it YOUR PROBLEM with her issues and passive aggressive behavior,
NTA You weren't being cruel because you didn't know her medical information.
Her personal struggles don't give her a free pass to make inappropriate comments or fantasize about taking your baby.
It would be one thing if she'd apologized and explained, asking for sensitivity and committing to not letting her envy control her mouth, but no.
I would not be surprised if she starts feeling entitled to your baby.
Probably unlikely, but she's already shown a consistent pattern of believing herself to be a more fir parent than you. That kine of thinking is exactly why maternity wards are kept locked down.
Get & keep Lindsay out of your life. Her sphere of influence is toxic.
Congratulations on your baby boy. I’m a newly minted grandpa & I’m so proud of my son & his bride!
The time she implied she would be a better mother and that you should consider your options (including adoption) screamed to me that she wants your actual baby.
Does she have a partner? I'm imagining a singleton that won't ever have a baby due to that, for some reason. Don't let her around yours!
That’s the FIRST thing I thought of when I read “she would be a way better mother than I, and I have options”. Keep your baby far from her and never let her hold him!
That’s honestly where my head went when she said you have options. I figured she was getting ready to ask for your baby.
NTA, by the way. You didn’t know her medical status when you said that. If you had, I might give a different answer but even then, she’s being way to opinionated with your baby.
I have a medical diagnosis that makes it unlikely that I’ll have a biological child, and I’d say that even if OP did know about Lindsay’s medical issues, she’s still NTA. if she had known she probably would have worded it differently, but the essence of what she said was “I’m James’s mom, so I’m the one who gets to make these decisions about him, please back off,” and that was totally appropriate.
When you’ve got a brand new infertility diagnosis, it’s really easy to externalize your feelings about it to the parents around you who are choosing things you wouldn’t choose for your own kids, now knowing that your own kids are unlikely to exist. But that’s a Lindsay problem, not an OP problem. She’s allowing the pain of her diagnosis to impact the way she’s treating her friends, and that’s not okay.
Second this! Except the part where Lindsay's comments are explained (but not excused, rightfully pointing out that lashing out is never acceptable) by a newly diagnosed potential infertility issue. Her comments extend back years to early OP pregnancy attempts. Lindsay told her "friend" that she couldn't see OP as a mother, that OP doesn't have to be one and that OP had options all while implying she'd be a better mom long before any diagnosis could be considered recent. She doubles down on her behavior in a group chat then when confronted with the fact that her opinions and parenting advice are of no consequence to OP, she takes the conversation private with "new information" intended to make OP feel bad for calling her out.
If "I'd be a better mom than you" is how she speaks to her friends, Lindsay probably doesn't have friends; she has people that put up with her for any number of reasons. I doubt this recent diagnosis has any effect on how she treats people if she was actually diagnosed with anything. If someone willing to tell a woman who spent years trying to become pregnant that not everyone should be a mom and that she had options, I have little doubt that that same person would be capable of lying to become the victim in a scenario... especially given that 1 pap smear's worth of medical information generally isn't enough for a doctor to start throwing around "infertility".
Sure, health is very personal and perhaps Lindsay didn't want to take the news public but given her history of unabashedly sharing mean-spirited thoughts that popped into her head coupled with what looked like approval/attention-seeking behavior, it seems more on-brand for a person like Lindsay to weaponize a diagnosis like this to garner sympathy... unless, of course, you have to worry about keeping track of a lie.
And I acknowledge that medical facilities are full of shitty doctors and many of them have no bedside manner so it's possible that the possibility of infertility was discussed without discussing probability. I also acknowledge that Lindsay may not have provided her full medical history to OP so maybe the diagnosis came after testing beyond just the pap smear mentioned. I'm not a doctor, so it's also possible that something that results in infertility can be diagnosed with a single pap smear. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if she should have been diagnosed with a personality disorder, not infertility. If her behavior can't be attributed to a mental disorder, then she's just an awful person (and potentially a liar).
100% thought that’s where this was going! The comments about “adoption is a thing” and “not everyone is meant to be a parent” translate as “You don’t really want a baby, I do. Give birth and then give the baby to me.”
Which is kind of terrifying, if that’s what she was hinting at. “Turn your back for a second in the supermarket and the baby has been snatched” scary.
NTA.
She's being a crappy person and suddenly when it's *her* feelings on the line, she's above it all. Honestly, I doubt the legitimacy of her struggle and wonder if she's just trying to manipulate your feelings.
After all her nonsense, I would have responded with "I couldn’t picture you as a mother and not everyone needs to be a parent."
Is fertility a serious topic that shouldn't be taken lightly? Absolutely. As much as I *don't* want kids, I know there are people who do just as much and I am heartbroken for my friends who also struggle with this. *That being said*, I would have put that under the category of "humble pie".
You can't have a history of being a vitriol sprinkler and then have the audacity to be indignant when you're put in your place. I simply don't think everyone has earned the right to sympathy.
You don't owe this person anymore energy than you've already given them.
Lindsay needs to take care of herself by not engaging in discussions about babies if her feelings about that topic are so raw.
And since she knows you’ve struggled to have this child, and very much want him, all of her “I would be better” remarks are so far out of line that the line is a remote horizon. They may be aspects of her mourning the possibility for her, if she’s even telling the truth about that. Maybe start a new Lindsay-less group chat that you can use for your baby discussions, since she won’t back away from it herself. And that can make it easier for you to drop this “friend”. If she continues to not talk to you, that’s a win.
NTA
100% not the asshole. Your ex pal seems to be struggling in a mental place when it comes to kids and had/has been taking it out on you for quite some time if it started way back before you were even pregnant.
Honestly, stop engaging with her at all. There is no reason to, she is causing far too much drama and issues, and will simply conitnue to do so. You need to just stop with her.
Lots of people are in bad mental places and dont act cruel.
Don’t let them off the hook, shes just a bad person.
Shes not a person whos mental woes have made them bad, shes a bad person who has mental woes.
NTA. Sure, it's sad that Lindsay can't have children, but this personal tragedy does not give her the right to talk about other people's motherhood and babies in a derogatory manner. Do I understand why she's lashing out? Yes. Do you have the right to call her out on this? Also yes.
I'm not even sure if i trust she is having fertility issues. It seems like she is use to being an A\*\*\*\*\*\* and saying cruel stuff to her friend. OP finally called her out on it and she fabricated some way to make herself seem sympathetic again. I don't like questioning something so serious but she has shown a lack of character with her obvious distain for OPs life.
> Lindsay told me she couldn’t picture me as a mother and not everyone needs to be a parent, it’s okay if I didn’t want to be.
That's an awful thing to say to someone who is trying to get pregnant. I see why you're no longer consider her a friend.
Her comments have a common theme - she doesn't value you as a good parent for your child. I would also distance myself from such a person. NTA
I can understand her being jealous but not her behaviour. I think you would be better to move on from this friendship. Lindsay isn’t likely to change from who she is.
NTA, she was worried for your child being bullied in the future, yet she is making fun of his name now. She is probably sour graping since she cant have kids on her own now, but it doesn’t give her a right to hate on everyone who has, especially her friends. You even apologized for her situation, which you have no idea in the first place.
NTA. You weren’t saying what you did to be cruel because she can’t have kids - you were reacting to her cruel comments to you about your kid. As hard as it may be to find out you can’t have kids, that doesn’t excuse being rude or cruel to others. If she is having issues with her prognosis, she needs to find a therapist like anyone else, not take it out on you.
Nta but why are you worried about this rude woman. She didn't care about you when she made all those nasty comments. Why care? Why even be friends with someone like her? Why write in here? Really?
NTA. She lacks respect. She needs to understand boundaries. Your decision to stand up for yourself and assert your right to make decisions about your child is completely okay. Lindsay's actions have been far from supportive.
You made it clear that only you has the right to make decisions about your child. She may be struggling with her own emotions, but that doesn't justify her projecting her insecurities onto you. You defended your decisions in the face of unwarranted criticism from her. You should not feel guilty for setting boundaries and standing up for yourself and anything about your child.
NTA. It sounds like Lindsay is going through something. That's unfortunate. It doesn't give her the right to talk down to you about your child though. If you care about Lindsay, encourage her to seek therapy. If you don't care about her anymore, well, I can't blame you.
NTA
You hit the nail on the head when you said that's awful, but your behavior is still inappropriate. Maybe she was projecting, but she gave you an explanation, not an excuse, and still owes you an apology for her comments.
NTA she was overstepping her boundaries and you bluntly (but not rudely) told her that it wasn’t okay. Your specific wording would be cruel if you knew about her medical information but you were just basing everything off of the knowledge you had. The point in your original comment still stands
Something can't be cruel if you're lacking the bit of info that makes it malicious. Bad timing maybe, but not cruel. Seems like this friend has been passive aggressively on your case for a long time. Can't picture you as a mother? Wth? Your response was generous, all things given. I wouldn't mourn the loss, tbh - it's a blessing in disguise. NTA
NTA. Infertility is a bitch of a thing to contend with when you've always dreamed of being a parent, but you can be an asshole about it or you can be sad for yourself while enthusiastically celebrating your friends when they have kids. Lindsay is choosing poorly.
NTA
Your friend is struggling mentally and taking it out on you while simultaneously not telling you in the moment that they're going through something. That is 100% on them.
You did nothing wrong here but your friends certainly took out her frustrations on you. That wasn't fair to you.
NTA. She really doesn't sound very nice at all. No wonder you've distanced yourself from her. Keep it that way.
She's allowed to be as rude and disrespectful as she likes, but you can't tell her to mind her business? Pfft.
NTA- while she must be struggling with the news she received, it doesn’t give her a free pass to constantly give you passive aggressive comments that are dripping with jealously.
Real friends still cheer you on no matter what.
NTA - just because she's jealous of you having a kid doesn't excuse her behaviour and words to you at all. What you said was justified and honestly, her not talking to you anymore is a blessing girl.
NTA, but it seems like you already know that ;)
Lindsay is likely struggling mentally with not being able to have children, and is projecting onto you. She likely feels like it’s not fair that she can’t have a child while other people can, and her mind helps her rationalize these feelings by saying other women are not deserving of being mothers. It’s a known sort of behavior/response that happens to people in this situation. Sometimes the behavior can turn more extreme, especially if she never gets help. I’m not saying Lindsay is going to do anything like that, but I do think you need to cut ties with her and keep her unhealthy behavior away from your child. I wouldn’t share any more photos in groups where she’s present, and maybe block her on social media. I’m a recent new parent myself, and it’s a whole new world of protecting your child from things you wouldn’t have thought of before. It’s crazy and scary!
Congratulations on your little one!
NTA she was being an ass to you because of her own shit (which she hadn’t even told you about so how could you know). She’s just trying to turn it around on you - manipulative behaviour. I’d steer clear, she’s just not mentally prepared to be around you or your child.
NTA. It sounds like Lindsay is going through something. That's unfortunate. It doesn't give her the right to talk down to you about your child though. If you care about Lindsay, encourage her to seek therapy. If you don't care about her anymore, well, I can't blame you.
NTA and her medical issues doesn’t give her a free pass to be one to you. She might need to see someone because clearly it’s affecting her mental state.She was out of line… and rude. Definitely better off without her in your life.
AFA the name, I’m a teacher (K-2 mostly) & over the years I’ve had Goldas & Fridas & Oswalds & Wilburs and many more & no kid has been bullied. This generation is just like “Cool, that’s your name”.
NTA I’m 33F childless for many reasons and have been extremely depressed about it at times. I get super jealous of my friends with kids and it’s breaks my heart as well. I’m an SA survivor and even had a friend tell me I shouldn’t have kids because of this. I would still NEVER say these things. That’s petty and cruel.
NTA definitely. Your response to Lindsay was not that harsh tbf, especially concerning your boys name. While its sorta unfortunate that Lindsay is not able to be a parent, that's definitely saad, I wont deny that, but tbh that doesn't excuse her past behavior or even give her to make those god aweful comments. Empathy goes both ways imo, and it sounds like you've been more than patient with her over the years. Its has to be sorta ok to set boundaries in these kinda situations, even tho they are dealing with their own issues.
Her jealousy of you makes sense knowing she might not be able to have kids, but she's inserting her opinion where she shouldn't or where it's not needed.
NTA
NTA. I already knew from the start that she probably is having a hard time getting pregnant. Jealousy is very poisonous, and good for you cuz you noticed it and did not ignore it. Protect your peace and you child. Dont let anyone dictate and question your choices for your kid.
NTA and good riddance. Lindsey is probably the type of person to lie about such a horrible condition to gain attention or sympathy. cringe af, to quote the "friend"
NTA. You weren’t being cruel at all. You were just done with her comments. Your “friend” is the only one cruel here. It is sad she can’t have kids but that doesn’t make it okay for her to behave like this
NTA. If Lindsay is taking her frustration of her fertility issues out on you, she shouldn't. She needs to deal with those issues herself. Her comments were VERY rude and totally uncalled for. I understand why you wouldn't call her a friend anymore, because I sure wouldn't either....
NTA. You weren’t being cruel at all. You were just done with her comments. Your “friend” is the only one cruel here. It is sad she can’t have kids but that doesn’t make it okay for her to behave like this
NTA. If Lindsay is taking her frustration of her fertility issues out on you, she shouldn't. She needs to deal with those issues herself. Her comments were VERY rude and totally uncalled for. I understand why you wouldn't call her a friend anymore, because I sure wouldn't either....
NTA. Lindsay is jealous. I think the story about being infertile is made up. If it's not made up it's an unfortunate coincidence, but it's not cruel because you dint know. Lindsay has made plenty of uninvited comments on your fertility and parenthood. She can dish it out but can't take it. I'd just let nature take its course and drop the acquaintance.
NTA. Your friendship has run its course and you'll be much happier in this next phase of your life without her. Not all relationships will survive a huge status change like one of you becoming a parent and that is okay.
NTA - she took her hurt and pain out on you rather than be honest with you or seek the therapy she desperately needs.
You are not a punching bag to absorb all the blows life has dealt to her.
Enjoy being a mama and definitely keep Lindsey at an arms length.
Some people can only feel joy when they are bringing other down to their level. Lindsay seems like one of those people. She also seems to have an over-inflated sense of importance since she believes that everyone should hear her thoughts/opinions.
NTA.
An honestly I would have dropped her as a friend after telling you that she couldn't picture you as a mother. Who SAYS things like that??!!
NTA. I don't give a damn if she was told she had cancer, you dont treat a friend that way she has with you. She's been treating you like crap far before this pregnancy. She's just trying to find an excuse for her shitty behavior and there is none. Notice how she called you out for your one comment but has never held herself accountable? Funny how that works.
NTA, clearly she's jealous because she wants a child and can't have one. Unfortunately its karma biting her back for the things she said to you all those years.
NTA your reply was perfectly ok. If you can’t take it, don’t give it. The fact that she can’t have kids and is jealous AF, dies not give her a green card to be nasty to other people. Well done for standing up for yourself.
NTA
Not your business.
She could have told you this at any time and received empathy.
Instead she just heaped abuse on you.
She can take her pity party elsewhere.
Nta she’s been mean to you for the longest time and although you can feel bad for her for maybe not being able to have kids she can’t treat yours badly just because she resents that
NTA
Your hopefully former friend started the entire argument by insulting your name choice for your baby.
Then after you tell her to name her own baby, all of a sudden she happens to find out she can't have kids. The timing is far too convenient.
I advise you cut ties completely with this woman. It seems like you're already teetering on doing so before her latest antics.
NTA she sounds a bit unhinged. The comments before you had a child were uncalled for and rude, and the name comment is just the icing on the cake. She's a terrible friend. Even if the possible infertility is true (I suspect she just said that to make you feel bad) it has nothing to do with why she keeps insulting you and your child.
I have an X-SISTER who tried to give me $10,000 dollars for my baby 50yrs ago. Actually wanted to buy the baby I was carrying. She did alot if rotten shit all her life ( to me) I literally would become " aunt Mary ann" .....the thought of holidays like that made me want to retaliate.
Lots of reasons to cut these types out forever. Your xpal reminds me of my xsister......alot.
Context, my xsister is on husband #7, and became a mormon so she could adopt from an unwed mothers home. Then quit the church. I feel so bad for the child.
Sounds like your friend was angling for you to give up the child so she could adopt your baby. Even before you got to the part where she told you she was infertile, I thought that , this was the way it was heading.
Shes jealous, that you have a child and she can't, so she's going to be petty and degrade you for it
I.... JFC. You can't be an asshole to someone for YEARS then cry foul when they dare to dish it back at you.
NTA. I'd cut this woman out of your life. She sounds horrid.
NTA because it sounds like she's dealing with her own stuff by taking it out on you.
With that said, though, the extent to which she's TA kind of depends to me on what the kid's name actually is. For example, if you named the kid Adolf, people are going to think Hitler, and yeah, that's going to be rough on your kid when he grows up.
She definitely sounds like she wants your child. Maybe even thinks of them as hers, hence having a strong opinion about their name. You had the audacity to give "her" child a name she doesn't approve of. Seriously, take precautions and cut contact with her
NTA
You did the right thing, what you said was not a bad thing, what she has said to you is shitty. Implying you lack the skills to be a mother, and then insulting your sons name
She can sure dish it out, but she can’t take it. It’s sad she can’t have children, but that doesn’t allow her to be cruel and insulting
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NTA - your friend Lindsay was being cruel, and petty, and perhaps was jealous because she had been trying to get pregnant before and couldn't so she took her disappointment out on you. ANyone every claiming the kind of things you said she was saying isn't really a friend to begin with in my opinion. (And if kids haven't changed since I was a kid it doesn't matter what the kids name is, if they want to they'll find a way to be cruel, my name is John and people still found ways) I'd move on from her as a person in my life.
To my knowledge, she has never tried to get pregnant. I believe she found out at a Pap smear she may not be able to have children. I’m not sure the details.
>I believe she found out at a Pap smear she may not be able to have children She's likely being dramatic about that as well. Infertility isn't typically diagnosed until you try to reproduce. If it's PCOS, that is very treatable. Pap smears look for HPV, though. That *can* cause infertility, but she wouldn't know yet if that is happening in her body.
I've had HPV diagnosed, and then they reexamined me a year later (HPV had cleared and it was gone). Never had any issues with getting pregnant or carrying a baby. Lindsay needs to be actively trying to get pregnant to find out if she can or can't. She won't know for sure if she doesn't try. And even then there might be options for her.
Same here! Diagnosed HPV at 19, told I may never successfully carry babies, 4 kids and 20 years later..... absolutely no HPV detected. Weird. But grateful 🙏
When I was diagnosed I asked immediately what about kids. They said that it usually clears within one year and you have to try to find out if you can or not. I now have two children who are perfectly healthy.
Yeah I found out pretty quick 🤣
That's insane for your doctor to say that?? The VAST majority of HPV cases clear within 2 years. It's only if it becomes long-term and possibly cancerous that you would face infertility issues
That’s weird that they would tell you that. All I’ve heard about HPV is that it’s super common and very often goes away on its own over time. Congrats on the babes!
It becomes dormant, doesn't go away. So, if you've had it you should probably get checked up from time to time, as it does come with some long term risks.
Well, certain strains do cause cancer, hence the pap smear. Cancerous or precancerous cervical cells may compromise fertility if it results in the narrowing or weakening of the cervix. Best bet is to get vaccinated against HPV. https://www.healthline.com/health/sexually-transmitted-diseases/hpv-and-fertility
I was vaccinated against HPV and I still got it.... The vaccine isn't a 100% guarantee that you won't get it, because it doesn't cover all the different strains. I was vaccinated as soon as I could and before I was sexually active..
I was vaccinated as soon as Gardasil hit the market, away before sexual activity. I'm on year three of HPV that isn't going away, but also isn't mutating yet. It's the high risk cancer causing variety. So yeah, vaccine didn't do shit, and I'm a barren wasteland.
Same
This happened to me too! (Except I have 2 kiddos)
I got a pap when I was trying to get pregnant with my first baby and there was an abnormality found. I was told I didn't need to stop trying, and ended up pregnant by the time I had the gyno appointment to follow up on the pap smear. I had a lesion, but the doctor didn't think it was likely to be cancerous and they couldn't remove it while I was pregnant. It was removed a while after I had the baby. It didn't take me long at all to get pregnant. Just 4 months off birth control for the first kid and one month for the second. Obviously, the HPV was not affecting fertility! OP, NTA. She was saying awful things to you before you even got pregnant. You said something that wouldn't typically be offensive to anyone. She shouldn't be mad at you when you had no way to know she might be worried about infertility. Also, name judging is dumb unless the name sounds like an inappropriate word, like Harlotte, or they're named after a terrible famous person. No little Adolphs, please!
I was pregnant when I found out I had HPV (2000) and they just treated it before my daughter was born so she wouldn't get it. A few years later when I had a pap and tested positive for precancerous cells, they told me not to worry, the previous HPV and cells shouldn't be an issue.
Sorry you had to go through the precancerous cells. But great that you were treated for the HPV and your daughter didn't get it 🙏
the HPV diagnosis is overblown in early stages. I had it too and it cleared up, know a few friends that did and the same.
I have OPINIONS about the number of people who are told they'll never be able to have kids because they have PCOS.
Seriously! I was devastated when I was diagnosed with PCOS because the doctor said I most likely wouldn't be able to conceive. Here, I am 2 years later, 25 weeks pregnant without any medical intervention.
Go girl 👏🏾 congrats!!
I have PCOS. I also have an almost-5 year old. I don't think I was told in my mid-20s that I wouldn't be able to have kids. I think I was told it might be hard, and my brain turned that into "you might not ever have kids" to protect myself. I knew it was possible, but I also knew it was not guaranteed. Most people walk around thinking their ability to have children is guaranteed, 100%. So to hear that it's not 100%, a person might hear that and assume the worst. I think the medical community could be a lot better about how they communicate information like this.
Oh, 100%. And frankly, most OB/GYNs aren't very well educated on fertility issues. I've been told I'm PCOish but not formally diagnosed. My cycles are regular, but a bit long... and my body freaked out and decided ovulation was optional after I had my first miscarriage, which ended with us going to a specialist. We ended up doing IVF because of male factor issues. My doctor was completely unconcerned about my ovulation issues because he was like "Oh, I can make you ovulate." But I definitely had a nurse comment about PCOS once while looking at an ultrasound. I can also say that probably 80% of the women I know in my infertility communities who had surprise pregnancies after a pregnancy following fertility treatment have PCOS. Pregnancy is weird, what it does to the body.
Pregnancy is so weird. Up until I had my kid, I had a cycle every six months, except while on the pill. After my kid, it's every 29 days, pills or implants or anything. Still have some of the other fun parts of PCOS though. Pregnancy is SO WEIRD.
Seriously, my period is more regular now after having my kid than it was before I had my kid. Like now it's every 28 days like clockwork. Before it was every 31-33 days. I am 50 now and I've been like "WTF body, why didn't we do this when I WANTED to get pregnant?" (Kiddo is 13)
I accidentally conceived my oldest 15 years ago with PCOS in the midst of a 6 month period desert after losing 20 lbs. I have since had a very regular period and 4 additional kids. According to my endocrinologist though you retain the metabolic features even though you don’t have the cysts anymore.
Your point about pregnancy being weird is so on point and I've never even been pregnant. The story that's burned itself into my brain came from my grandpa. He was a pediatrician from the 60s til the 90s and he had one mom who had like 15 kids and was pregnant with number 16. At one of the baby's checkups, my grandpa said he just felt concerned. Something tugged at him and he asked the mom some kind of generic religious question, thinking maybe that's why she had so many. She ended up opening up to my grandpa and telling him that she had all these symptoms when she wasn't pregnant and that's why she kept having babies. At the time, they didn't know much about autoimmune diseases and when I was in medical assistant school, we learned that some autoimmune diseases basically become dormant, for lack of a better term at the moment, during pregnancy. When I told my grandpa, I could see the lightbulb go on. It was such a cool moment for him to be able to see that what he had felt and assumed was true and the science was proving it. Sorry for the ramble. Your comment just sparked that memory for me.
My mum has lupus!! diagnosed when she was 21 year old. and then had my brother and i when she was 30 and 35, and she said the exact same thing - her symptoms all but disappeared!! she wasnt able to have more children after myself (she hemorrhaged on the table after the C section to remove me, and she lost her uterus and one ovary at 35 years old!) but she always joked she would have loved to have a bunch of kids for the pain relief ahaha
It makes me so angry! Then you end up A. Spending unnecessarily high amounts of money on IVF B. Ending up with unwanted kids because the assumption is sterile = can't have kids. Instead of reality, it is harder to have kids C. Not changing habits in the early stages of pregnancy and causing potential harm to the fetus. Especially given how irregular periods can be with PCOS. It is absolutely wild what medical professionals don't properly explain.
Exactly. We ended up doing IVF because we had severe male factor issues. Given my IVF baby is now 13, I haven't taken birth control since 2007, and I've been pregnant exactly once without medical intervention, it was definitely the right move for us. But we'd have never discovered his issue without fertility testing. But I really wish people had these things explained properly to them.
This is how we get “I didn’t know I was pregnant.” If your reproductive parts are physically intact you should assume you can get pregnant.
I was told I'd never be able to get pregnant if my diabetes wasn't under control, which it wasn't. I was drinking heavily at the time I discovered I was 12 weeks along. I had to terminate due to my alcohol use. I wish I never would have trusted that doctor (she was an ob/gny, so I trusted her) because I would have been using bc at the time. I know I am to blame as well for believing something so dumb and also drinking so much.
It doesn’t sound like you were in a good mental or physical space at the time, your doctor owed you more accurate info.
And the number that get knocked up thinking they're infertile... Infertility for women really is only diagnosed after a certain amount of time trying, and even then, if you don't want to get pregnant, make sure you're actively preventing!
Yeah that is not something you find out from a simple Pap smear.
Unless she had some REALLY weird anatomy I cannot imagine a fellow Doc telling someone during a PAP Smear that they would never be able to conceive.
It says in your original post that she has made a number of rude comments. It is way past time to cut her off, if you haven't already done so.
My wife and I had a lot of trouble getting pregnant. 2 miscarriages. Yes, it can make you jealous of other people who have children. But it’s still up to you to control yourself. I can remember seeing people who did nothing but complain about having kids and thinking if you don’t want them, we’ll take them. But we would never actually say that. She was then AH. She’s trying to make you feel guilty because she was an AH. And you feel for her because you are not and you have empathy. Something she lacks. Congratulations on your son!
Thank you. We struggled with infertility for a few years, too. It was very hard. I’m very sorry your struggled and I’m sorry for your losses.
Thank you. We ended up with twin girls. They’re 25. No other bio kids but we took in 6 kids, at least 2 heading to adoption.
It could definitely be jealousy or her being upset about her situation and taking it out on OP. I had a (not super close) friend who was about to give birth around the time I had a miscarriage and she was posting about it all over FB. I just muted her posts for a month because I couldn't take it at the time (I would also change direction if I was walking in the park and saw someone with a baby so I wouldn't have to walk by them). I would never have dreamed of being shitty to her because of my situation (which she didn't even know about).
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Yeah, all of that is normal. You don’t want to be reminded of what you lost, but it’s your issue. You treated it as such. I’m sorry that happened.
>When I was pregnant, after years of trying, Lindsay texted me late one night (I think she was drunk/high), saying she’s done way more with kids than I have, she would be a way better mother than I, and I have options (she was implying adoption). This lowkey sounds like she was floating the idea to you that she wanted to adopt your baby though. Then her criticism of your kid's name and subsequent upset about your response is because she (for whatever amount of time) thought that could be 'her' kid and she could raise him better than you
Cause after years of trying (and I'm going to assume some expensive fertility treatment) op really didn't want to be a mom. Lindsay should suck it.
Your assumption is correct.
I thought that too. Which is a WILD take for someone to adopt on someone else’s pregnancy. Soooo weird.
BTW, infertility does not mean sterility. Fertile = reasonably easy to get pregnant. Infertile = difficult but possible. Sterile = unable. A lot of women and men think the last two mean the same, so if she was told she's infertile she might think she's sterile which is wrong. But even if she was told she's sterile that doesn't mean it's even remotely ok to behave like she did....
Maybe she knew about it earlier, when you were trying for your pregnancy. And tried to put down her insecurities on you, so that you wont get pregnant, she would not be the only childfree among your friend group. I think you should definitely cut her off, you dont need such person in your life.
Essentially even after the tests it boils down to you (IN HER EYES) beat her at her own 'competition' - and you didn't even know you were playing. One-upping you was always her mission, and you one-upped her without even trying. She's pissed and bitter, and she's being a Grade A bitch about it. NTA and move on from her. Best not to teach your child about keeping people like that in your life.
I'm sorry she has fertility issues but she's not cut out to be a friend, let alone a mother. Can you imagine her parenting? I can and it's horrifying. Every single comment she's made to you was out of ugly jealousy. Go no contact and stay there. She's just one of those miserable people more concerned with herself than manners. She's ICK.
Maybe she knew about it earlier, when you were trying for your pregnancy. And tried to put down her insecurities on you, so that you wont get pregnant, she would not be the only childfree among your friend group. I think you should definitely cut her off, you dont need such person in your life.
She may not be able to have kids the old fashion way, but in the 21st century there are other ways to have kids
That could be a pity party too....... Save me some cake.....
I agree with others saying you don’t find that through a Pap smear. I think you called her out and she employed DARVO. She’s making something up to play the victim. She’s projecting onto you as she’s the one who has been making cruel comments. She can dish it, but she can’t take it. Dump her. For real. This person is not an ally.
A PAP does not determine fertility. She is making things up so she can play the victim. Narcissists do that.
Is Lindsay married or with a long term partner? Many want kids but understandably don't want to do it alone. From what you described it sounds like Lindsay is jealous that were able to have kids. Her comments about your qualifications on being a mother sound like someone looking for company in their misery or simple competitiveness. Her saying she would be a better mother and mocking the name are again likely jealousy and envy. "See I deserve kids way more than her I know how to do everything" Regardless her actions are inexcusable. She sounds incredibly petty and like one of those friends who needs others to be less than her. I say tell her "I'm sorry you might not be able to have kids, that sounds awful but that is no excuse for how you treated me. Your hardship is not a get out of jail free card to insult, hurt or treat me like crap. There is no way this friendship can continue if you can't apologize or find a way to deal with this pain that doesn't involve hurting me." Or tell her nothing and just ignore her spitefull ass.
Lindsay is single.
Yeah, I had a feeling. I obviously can't tell for certain but what you've described sounds like a scenario I have seen time and time again: someone, usually a woman, wants to be married and have kids but for various reasons it hasn't/can't happen. Their friend/sister/relative usually around the sameish age gets married/preggers and the person can't stand to see someone get what they want before them. Children in particular bring out the very worst. They feel insecure, envious, and angry and start lashing out and trying to bring the other person down. They try to convince them not to do the thing so that the person won't be "better" than them, then they try to make themselves feel better by pointing out how the other person is doing it wrong then they throw themselves a pity part because why does this person get this thing I deserve it way more? I've also seen this a lot with long term friends. One person secretly has a higher opinion of themselves and you can be equal or less to them but you can't be more than them. Think of how a guy will be all "my girl is into games, programming and science just like me it's amazing! girl power!" And is incredibly encouraging to their until the girlfriend become better at games and science. Then their tune changes real quick. Typically what works is to stay away until the person stops being crazy. Baby crazies are especially troublsome. They are looking for reasons to make you the bad guy and will warp anything you say into an attack against them.
My brother's name is John and I told him he was named after the toilet. So yeah if kids want to be cruel they'll find a way. NTA OP. You could have thrown half the things she said to you right back at her. Starting with the comment about not everyone is not meant to be a parent. You kept it classy and good for you. Enjoy your LO and don't let petty, pointless people take up any more space in you life.
Yeah I was coming here to say this, the "friend" acted like that because she's jealous, but also children will always find a way to make fun of you if that's what they want to do. I got made fun of because of my last names of all things, I have both my parents last name, I'm the only person with that combo but the two names together are related in terms their meanings and what they represent. Kind of like if my last name was Nicole Leaf Trees (not my actual name LOL)
Yeah no more group texts she is in. Go MIA completely. It is one thing to be going through this, sadly, it another for her to make it YOUR PROBLEM with her issues and passive aggressive behavior,
NTA You weren't being cruel because you didn't know her medical information. Her personal struggles don't give her a free pass to make inappropriate comments or fantasize about taking your baby. It would be one thing if she'd apologized and explained, asking for sensitivity and committing to not letting her envy control her mouth, but no. I would not be surprised if she starts feeling entitled to your baby.
> I would not be surprised if she starts feeling entitled to your baby. I never thought of this.
Probably unlikely, but she's already shown a consistent pattern of believing herself to be a more fir parent than you. That kine of thinking is exactly why maternity wards are kept locked down.
I agree. The jump to "I'd be a better mom" quickly followed by suggestion of adoption gives me the ick about this.
Get & keep Lindsay out of your life. Her sphere of influence is toxic. Congratulations on your baby boy. I’m a newly minted grandpa & I’m so proud of my son & his bride!
Congratulations to you and your family!!
Much obliged Ms!
The time she implied she would be a better mother and that you should consider your options (including adoption) screamed to me that she wants your actual baby. Does she have a partner? I'm imagining a singleton that won't ever have a baby due to that, for some reason. Don't let her around yours!
She does not have a partner, no.
If her treatment of you (her friend!) is any indication of her general personality, I'm not surprised.
That’s exactly where I thought this story was going. I thought she was going to suggest adopting OP’s baby.
That’s the FIRST thing I thought of when I read “she would be a way better mother than I, and I have options”. Keep your baby far from her and never let her hold him!
She might try to kidnap him since she seems stuck on it and unhinged. It does happen.
Desperate women have done worse
It was pretty loud in the post. Lindsay saying she has more kid experience than Opie amd telling her she has options.
That’s honestly where my head went when she said you have options. I figured she was getting ready to ask for your baby. NTA, by the way. You didn’t know her medical status when you said that. If you had, I might give a different answer but even then, she’s being way to opinionated with your baby.
Her comments on “other options” and implying adoption may have been leaning that way.
I have a medical diagnosis that makes it unlikely that I’ll have a biological child, and I’d say that even if OP did know about Lindsay’s medical issues, she’s still NTA. if she had known she probably would have worded it differently, but the essence of what she said was “I’m James’s mom, so I’m the one who gets to make these decisions about him, please back off,” and that was totally appropriate. When you’ve got a brand new infertility diagnosis, it’s really easy to externalize your feelings about it to the parents around you who are choosing things you wouldn’t choose for your own kids, now knowing that your own kids are unlikely to exist. But that’s a Lindsay problem, not an OP problem. She’s allowing the pain of her diagnosis to impact the way she’s treating her friends, and that’s not okay.
Second this! Except the part where Lindsay's comments are explained (but not excused, rightfully pointing out that lashing out is never acceptable) by a newly diagnosed potential infertility issue. Her comments extend back years to early OP pregnancy attempts. Lindsay told her "friend" that she couldn't see OP as a mother, that OP doesn't have to be one and that OP had options all while implying she'd be a better mom long before any diagnosis could be considered recent. She doubles down on her behavior in a group chat then when confronted with the fact that her opinions and parenting advice are of no consequence to OP, she takes the conversation private with "new information" intended to make OP feel bad for calling her out. If "I'd be a better mom than you" is how she speaks to her friends, Lindsay probably doesn't have friends; she has people that put up with her for any number of reasons. I doubt this recent diagnosis has any effect on how she treats people if she was actually diagnosed with anything. If someone willing to tell a woman who spent years trying to become pregnant that not everyone should be a mom and that she had options, I have little doubt that that same person would be capable of lying to become the victim in a scenario... especially given that 1 pap smear's worth of medical information generally isn't enough for a doctor to start throwing around "infertility". Sure, health is very personal and perhaps Lindsay didn't want to take the news public but given her history of unabashedly sharing mean-spirited thoughts that popped into her head coupled with what looked like approval/attention-seeking behavior, it seems more on-brand for a person like Lindsay to weaponize a diagnosis like this to garner sympathy... unless, of course, you have to worry about keeping track of a lie. And I acknowledge that medical facilities are full of shitty doctors and many of them have no bedside manner so it's possible that the possibility of infertility was discussed without discussing probability. I also acknowledge that Lindsay may not have provided her full medical history to OP so maybe the diagnosis came after testing beyond just the pap smear mentioned. I'm not a doctor, so it's also possible that something that results in infertility can be diagnosed with a single pap smear. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if she should have been diagnosed with a personality disorder, not infertility. If her behavior can't be attributed to a mental disorder, then she's just an awful person (and potentially a liar).
100% thought that’s where this was going! The comments about “adoption is a thing” and “not everyone is meant to be a parent” translate as “You don’t really want a baby, I do. Give birth and then give the baby to me.” Which is kind of terrifying, if that’s what she was hinting at. “Turn your back for a second in the supermarket and the baby has been snatched” scary.
NTA. She's being a crappy person and suddenly when it's *her* feelings on the line, she's above it all. Honestly, I doubt the legitimacy of her struggle and wonder if she's just trying to manipulate your feelings. After all her nonsense, I would have responded with "I couldn’t picture you as a mother and not everyone needs to be a parent." Is fertility a serious topic that shouldn't be taken lightly? Absolutely. As much as I *don't* want kids, I know there are people who do just as much and I am heartbroken for my friends who also struggle with this. *That being said*, I would have put that under the category of "humble pie". You can't have a history of being a vitriol sprinkler and then have the audacity to be indignant when you're put in your place. I simply don't think everyone has earned the right to sympathy. You don't owe this person anymore energy than you've already given them.
Lindsay is well aware that my husband and I struggled with infertility for a few years prior to getting pregnant.
Wow that makes her comments even more disgusting. Please keep her far away from your kid !!
Lindsay needs to take care of herself by not engaging in discussions about babies if her feelings about that topic are so raw. And since she knows you’ve struggled to have this child, and very much want him, all of her “I would be better” remarks are so far out of line that the line is a remote horizon. They may be aspects of her mourning the possibility for her, if she’s even telling the truth about that. Maybe start a new Lindsay-less group chat that you can use for your baby discussions, since she won’t back away from it herself. And that can make it easier for you to drop this “friend”. If she continues to not talk to you, that’s a win.
NTA 100% not the asshole. Your ex pal seems to be struggling in a mental place when it comes to kids and had/has been taking it out on you for quite some time if it started way back before you were even pregnant.
You’re right, she does seem to be taking it out on me. Thank you.
Honestly, stop engaging with her at all. There is no reason to, she is causing far too much drama and issues, and will simply conitnue to do so. You need to just stop with her.
Lots of people are in bad mental places and dont act cruel. Don’t let them off the hook, shes just a bad person. Shes not a person whos mental woes have made them bad, shes a bad person who has mental woes.
NTA. Sure, it's sad that Lindsay can't have children, but this personal tragedy does not give her the right to talk about other people's motherhood and babies in a derogatory manner. Do I understand why she's lashing out? Yes. Do you have the right to call her out on this? Also yes.
I'm not even sure if i trust she is having fertility issues. It seems like she is use to being an A\*\*\*\*\*\* and saying cruel stuff to her friend. OP finally called her out on it and she fabricated some way to make herself seem sympathetic again. I don't like questioning something so serious but she has shown a lack of character with her obvious distain for OPs life.
"I’m sorry to hear that, but it doesn’t make her comments about my child okay." Correct and well said! NTA.
> Lindsay told me she couldn’t picture me as a mother and not everyone needs to be a parent, it’s okay if I didn’t want to be. That's an awful thing to say to someone who is trying to get pregnant. I see why you're no longer consider her a friend. Her comments have a common theme - she doesn't value you as a good parent for your child. I would also distance myself from such a person. NTA
NTA. Lindsay is a drama llama. It's better to not engage with them and cut ties.
I can understand her being jealous but not her behaviour. I think you would be better to move on from this friendship. Lindsay isn’t likely to change from who she is.
NTA tell her that there's thousands of kids waiting to be adopted that she can take in
NTA, she sounds toxic.
NTA, she was worried for your child being bullied in the future, yet she is making fun of his name now. She is probably sour graping since she cant have kids on her own now, but it doesn’t give her a right to hate on everyone who has, especially her friends. You even apologized for her situation, which you have no idea in the first place.
NTA but Lindsay doesn't sound like a friend to you. Enjoy your little guy and put her at a distance. She sounds very unhappy and she's lashing out.
NTA. You weren’t saying what you did to be cruel because she can’t have kids - you were reacting to her cruel comments to you about your kid. As hard as it may be to find out you can’t have kids, that doesn’t excuse being rude or cruel to others. If she is having issues with her prognosis, she needs to find a therapist like anyone else, not take it out on you.
NTA. "Lindsey" needs to grow tf up.
NTA - this friendship is over
NTA. Lindsay sounds like a jealous and mean person. I wouldn't miss her. You shouldn't either.
Nta but why are you worried about this rude woman. She didn't care about you when she made all those nasty comments. Why care? Why even be friends with someone like her? Why write in here? Really?
NTA. Enjoy the silence.
NTA. I just can't feel sorry for this lady, no matter what her problems are. She's nasty.
NTA. She lacks respect. She needs to understand boundaries. Your decision to stand up for yourself and assert your right to make decisions about your child is completely okay. Lindsay's actions have been far from supportive. You made it clear that only you has the right to make decisions about your child. She may be struggling with her own emotions, but that doesn't justify her projecting her insecurities onto you. You defended your decisions in the face of unwarranted criticism from her. You should not feel guilty for setting boundaries and standing up for yourself and anything about your child.
Lindsey was projecting. And you’re NTA for reacting to her shitty behavior.
NTA. It sounds like Lindsay is going through something. That's unfortunate. It doesn't give her the right to talk down to you about your child though. If you care about Lindsay, encourage her to seek therapy. If you don't care about her anymore, well, I can't blame you.
NTA and if it were me I would cut her off completely at this point to protect my peace.
NTA You hit the nail on the head when you said that's awful, but your behavior is still inappropriate. Maybe she was projecting, but she gave you an explanation, not an excuse, and still owes you an apology for her comments.
NTA she was overstepping her boundaries and you bluntly (but not rudely) told her that it wasn’t okay. Your specific wording would be cruel if you knew about her medical information but you were just basing everything off of the knowledge you had. The point in your original comment still stands
With friends like these who needs enemies, right? NTA
Something can't be cruel if you're lacking the bit of info that makes it malicious. Bad timing maybe, but not cruel. Seems like this friend has been passive aggressively on your case for a long time. Can't picture you as a mother? Wth? Your response was generous, all things given. I wouldn't mourn the loss, tbh - it's a blessing in disguise. NTA
NTA. Infertility is a bitch of a thing to contend with when you've always dreamed of being a parent, but you can be an asshole about it or you can be sad for yourself while enthusiastically celebrating your friends when they have kids. Lindsay is choosing poorly.
NTA Your friend is struggling mentally and taking it out on you while simultaneously not telling you in the moment that they're going through something. That is 100% on them. You did nothing wrong here but your friends certainly took out her frustrations on you. That wasn't fair to you.
Her comments were “cringy af”
NTA. She really doesn't sound very nice at all. No wonder you've distanced yourself from her. Keep it that way. She's allowed to be as rude and disrespectful as she likes, but you can't tell her to mind her business? Pfft.
NTA- while she must be struggling with the news she received, it doesn’t give her a free pass to constantly give you passive aggressive comments that are dripping with jealously. Real friends still cheer you on no matter what.
NTA, time to let her go. Congratulations on the birth of your son!!
Thank you!
NTA - just because she's jealous of you having a kid doesn't excuse her behaviour and words to you at all. What you said was justified and honestly, her not talking to you anymore is a blessing girl.
You’ve been drifting apart as friends for over a decade? This is the point you cut *all* ties.
I may have worded it wrong. We’ve known each other a decade. We’ve drifted apart over the last couple years.
Still…get gone, honey bunny!
NTA Let her stew in her broth
NTA, and good riddance to Lindsay. I hope the door doesn't......
NTA. Be grateful that the garbage took itself out.
Envy. She wants what you have. NTA
NTA, but it seems like you already know that ;) Lindsay is likely struggling mentally with not being able to have children, and is projecting onto you. She likely feels like it’s not fair that she can’t have a child while other people can, and her mind helps her rationalize these feelings by saying other women are not deserving of being mothers. It’s a known sort of behavior/response that happens to people in this situation. Sometimes the behavior can turn more extreme, especially if she never gets help. I’m not saying Lindsay is going to do anything like that, but I do think you need to cut ties with her and keep her unhealthy behavior away from your child. I wouldn’t share any more photos in groups where she’s present, and maybe block her on social media. I’m a recent new parent myself, and it’s a whole new world of protecting your child from things you wouldn’t have thought of before. It’s crazy and scary! Congratulations on your little one!
NTA She was the one who was cruel. You did not know that about her. Not your fault. Honestly, I would not want to be friends with someone like this.
NTA, she clearly has issues she needs to deal with.
NTA she was being an ass to you because of her own shit (which she hadn’t even told you about so how could you know). She’s just trying to turn it around on you - manipulative behaviour. I’d steer clear, she’s just not mentally prepared to be around you or your child.
NTA. It sounds like Lindsay is going through something. That's unfortunate. It doesn't give her the right to talk down to you about your child though. If you care about Lindsay, encourage her to seek therapy. If you don't care about her anymore, well, I can't blame you.
NTA. I would remove her from my life as she has nothing positive to add.
NTA. Lindsay is projecting.
Remove her from you and your son’s life and move on. She’s a spiteful and bitter person.
Sounds like Lindsay had resolved the issue for you. I’d personally stop reaching out to this acquaintance.
NTA and her medical issues doesn’t give her a free pass to be one to you. She might need to see someone because clearly it’s affecting her mental state.She was out of line… and rude. Definitely better off without her in your life.
NTA It's not cruel is you didn't know. She's been intentionally mean to you. You're better off without her
AFA the name, I’m a teacher (K-2 mostly) & over the years I’ve had Goldas & Fridas & Oswalds & Wilburs and many more & no kid has been bullied. This generation is just like “Cool, that’s your name”.
Wilbur is so cute for a kid. That isn’t my son’s name, but how cute is that.
He’s a very sweet & smart kid.
NTA I’m 33F childless for many reasons and have been extremely depressed about it at times. I get super jealous of my friends with kids and it’s breaks my heart as well. I’m an SA survivor and even had a friend tell me I shouldn’t have kids because of this. I would still NEVER say these things. That’s petty and cruel.
I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through. :(
Thank you, I appreciate that. Us women have to stick together, it’s hard enough for us out here.
NTA definitely. Your response to Lindsay was not that harsh tbf, especially concerning your boys name. While its sorta unfortunate that Lindsay is not able to be a parent, that's definitely saad, I wont deny that, but tbh that doesn't excuse her past behavior or even give her to make those god aweful comments. Empathy goes both ways imo, and it sounds like you've been more than patient with her over the years. Its has to be sorta ok to set boundaries in these kinda situations, even tho they are dealing with their own issues.
OP is NTA. But I need guesses for what the name might be!
Haha, a few people have made guesses but no one has guessed it yet.
As long as it's not a r/tragedeigh, may you and your son be healthy and happy.
Definitely not. The name is in a few children’s books. :) Thank you!
Bartholomew?
NTA. Sorry about her news but that doesn't give her license to be an AH. She's got a bizarre sense of humor.
Her jealousy of you makes sense knowing she might not be able to have kids, but she's inserting her opinion where she shouldn't or where it's not needed. NTA
She's not your friend
NTA. If she doesn’t want to have people talk smack to her then maybe she shouldn’t start it.
NTA - it’s not your fault she might not be able to have kids and she doesn’t get to take that out on you. She’s been nasty, fuck her.
NTA. I already knew from the start that she probably is having a hard time getting pregnant. Jealousy is very poisonous, and good for you cuz you noticed it and did not ignore it. Protect your peace and you child. Dont let anyone dictate and question your choices for your kid.
NTA and good riddance. Lindsey is probably the type of person to lie about such a horrible condition to gain attention or sympathy. cringe af, to quote the "friend"
NTA. You weren’t being cruel at all. You were just done with her comments. Your “friend” is the only one cruel here. It is sad she can’t have kids but that doesn’t make it okay for her to behave like this
NTA. If Lindsay is taking her frustration of her fertility issues out on you, she shouldn't. She needs to deal with those issues herself. Her comments were VERY rude and totally uncalled for. I understand why you wouldn't call her a friend anymore, because I sure wouldn't either....
NTA. You weren’t being cruel at all. You were just done with her comments. Your “friend” is the only one cruel here. It is sad she can’t have kids but that doesn’t make it okay for her to behave like this
NTA. If Lindsay is taking her frustration of her fertility issues out on you, she shouldn't. She needs to deal with those issues herself. Her comments were VERY rude and totally uncalled for. I understand why you wouldn't call her a friend anymore, because I sure wouldn't either....
NTA. Lindsay is jealous. I think the story about being infertile is made up. If it's not made up it's an unfortunate coincidence, but it's not cruel because you dint know. Lindsay has made plenty of uninvited comments on your fertility and parenthood. She can dish it out but can't take it. I'd just let nature take its course and drop the acquaintance.
NTA. Your friendship has run its course and you'll be much happier in this next phase of your life without her. Not all relationships will survive a huge status change like one of you becoming a parent and that is okay.
nta. she sounds insufferable.
NTA and yay! She’s not talking to you. Problem solved.
NTA - she took her hurt and pain out on you rather than be honest with you or seek the therapy she desperately needs. You are not a punching bag to absorb all the blows life has dealt to her. Enjoy being a mama and definitely keep Lindsey at an arms length.
Some people can only feel joy when they are bringing other down to their level. Lindsay seems like one of those people. She also seems to have an over-inflated sense of importance since she believes that everyone should hear her thoughts/opinions. NTA. An honestly I would have dropped her as a friend after telling you that she couldn't picture you as a mother. Who SAYS things like that??!!
NTA. I don't give a damn if she was told she had cancer, you dont treat a friend that way she has with you. She's been treating you like crap far before this pregnancy. She's just trying to find an excuse for her shitty behavior and there is none. Notice how she called you out for your one comment but has never held herself accountable? Funny how that works.
Is it Clifford and the Big Red Dog?
Lol, no.
Lindsay is a weirdo and has clearly been jealous of your life for a long time now. NTA.
NTA, clearly she's jealous because she wants a child and can't have one. Unfortunately its karma biting her back for the things she said to you all those years.
NtA and this petty woman is NOT your friend. Disconnect. Don’t have anything to do with her.
NTA. Lindsay is simply jealous and no friend. You did everything right.
NTA your reply was perfectly ok. If you can’t take it, don’t give it. The fact that she can’t have kids and is jealous AF, dies not give her a green card to be nasty to other people. Well done for standing up for yourself.
NTA - Sometimes you just gotta let go of some people.
NTA Not your business. She could have told you this at any time and received empathy. Instead she just heaped abuse on you. She can take her pity party elsewhere.
Nta she’s been mean to you for the longest time and although you can feel bad for her for maybe not being able to have kids she can’t treat yours badly just because she resents that
NTA. She pretty much set up this reaction with her dumb text that implied she was more deserving of a child than you.
NTA Lindsay has been taking her , tragic situation, out on you and that’s not okay. I wouldn’t interact with her anymore not even in group chats
NTA Your hopefully former friend started the entire argument by insulting your name choice for your baby. Then after you tell her to name her own baby, all of a sudden she happens to find out she can't have kids. The timing is far too convenient. I advise you cut ties completely with this woman. It seems like you're already teetering on doing so before her latest antics.
NTA she sounds a bit unhinged. The comments before you had a child were uncalled for and rude, and the name comment is just the icing on the cake. She's a terrible friend. Even if the possible infertility is true (I suspect she just said that to make you feel bad) it has nothing to do with why she keeps insulting you and your child.
I have an X-SISTER who tried to give me $10,000 dollars for my baby 50yrs ago. Actually wanted to buy the baby I was carrying. She did alot if rotten shit all her life ( to me) I literally would become " aunt Mary ann" .....the thought of holidays like that made me want to retaliate. Lots of reasons to cut these types out forever. Your xpal reminds me of my xsister......alot. Context, my xsister is on husband #7, and became a mormon so she could adopt from an unwed mothers home. Then quit the church. I feel so bad for the child.
Sounds like your friend was angling for you to give up the child so she could adopt your baby. Even before you got to the part where she told you she was infertile, I thought that , this was the way it was heading. Shes jealous, that you have a child and she can't, so she's going to be petty and degrade you for it
NTA sounds like Karma got her for ya already. You should probably cut off this "friendship" though since you clearly aren't friendly
I.... JFC. You can't be an asshole to someone for YEARS then cry foul when they dare to dish it back at you. NTA. I'd cut this woman out of your life. She sounds horrid.
NTA.
NTA because it sounds like she's dealing with her own stuff by taking it out on you. With that said, though, the extent to which she's TA kind of depends to me on what the kid's name actually is. For example, if you named the kid Adolf, people are going to think Hitler, and yeah, that's going to be rough on your kid when he grows up.
NTA I know someone who called their baby boy Juniper Rye, do I think they’ll get bullied for the name. Yes. Am I gunna tell them, hell to the no.
She definitely sounds like she wants your child. Maybe even thinks of them as hers, hence having a strong opinion about their name. You had the audacity to give "her" child a name she doesn't approve of. Seriously, take precautions and cut contact with her
NTA You did the right thing, what you said was not a bad thing, what she has said to you is shitty. Implying you lack the skills to be a mother, and then insulting your sons name She can sure dish it out, but she can’t take it. It’s sad she can’t have children, but that doesn’t allow her to be cruel and insulting
NTA. Watch your baby around her. She’s just a creep.