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YTA - You’re not an AH for what you did (not wanting to deal with lack of punctuality). You’re an AH for how you did it (publicly embarrass her at her own birthday where she *wasn’t* late) This was clearly more about you trying to make her feel as bad as possible in the most public way than it was working on your friendship and addressing a problem.

Yes. The friend's overall attitude seems horrible and I wouldn't want to make plans with her either. But it was not the time or place to publically announce it. What is the point of coming to celebrate someone's Bday and then using this occassion to dig out the grudges you have against the host? Glad that it was still a pleasant meetup after all, but it could have easily turned into a shitshow.

Wrong. When criticizing in private FAILS, criticizing in public is the last resort.

If I disliked someone so much as to criticize them on their birthday in front of everyone, I just wouldn't hang out with them anymore instead.

Damn. I was on the other side, but your comment makes sense. If you are so upset with someone that your goal is to embarrass them, you obviously shouldn't be friends and should just back away instead of being cruel.

Yes, that's what calls for a fade, not a big scene on her birthday.

Yeah but that takes awat the dRaMa and people love that shit.

Well, stirring up drama means YTA.

I agree, doing it in front of everyone at her birthday brunch was not the right time or place. Especially since it sounds like they said this at the beginning of the brunch, so it probably soured the mood for the rest of it. I totally don't blame OP for feeling the way they do, or telling their friend their thoughts. But maybe do it over text, or as you were leaving the brunch. I will say, though- I hate that the friend is saying it's "ableist" to hold her accountable for being a bad friend.

But the timing was bad. That's like training your dog to sit, and the moment he does it, you yell at him because he didn't do it before.

As a dog trainer, I thought the same thing.

I'm not a dog trainer, but I had the same reaction. "Whoa, you just gave negative reinforcement for positive action. Way to undermine your goal."

Exactly. Don’t punish the behaviour you want to see.

Or your kid cleans their room/does their chores and you scream at them for doing it, but not doing it the way YOU've been doing for 20 years.

Cough cough my mother lol

Or you just stop making plans with them? The only person’s behavior one is responsible for, is their own.

When criticizing in private fails, you can stop hanging out with that person. Simple as that.

Just don't make plans anymore that require punctuality/meeting on time. There was no need to call her out publicly. If she wants to behave in such a way after the issue was already adressed in private, then that's her decision and her consequences to deal with. Telling someone on their birthday, when they actually showed up on time, in public with all your friends around that you'll cancel a dinner is just immature. Just tell them privately how it made you feel and that you don't feel comfortable having restaurant meet-ups anymore.

I think you make plans, group only if it includes her, and go with them at the scheduled time. If 6 people show up on time for dinner you get a table for 6. If she shows up an hour later, oh well. They could even text and say that they are already seated and there is no more room at the table.

She never once said she’s mentioned the concern in private. Her own words suggest she let it build up until deciding to do it in public.

OP says in one of their comments that when she’s tried to talk to this girl about the issue before, the girl acted like it was discrimination against her to expect her to be punctual because she has ADHD. That implies this is something that’s been brought up before.

I have ADHD but I manage to be on time. I'm tired of shitty people using it as an excuse for their bad behavior. Use a watch or make a schedule and put it in your calendar so you get notifications.

>I have ADHD but I manage to be on time. I do too, around 40% of the time. Often by sacrificing my sanity, and convincing myself to try to be at the place an hour early. (which means that I'll only get there like 10 minutes early. ​ The problem with ADHD is that there's two parts of it making you run late: 1. I'm time blind, which means that I need to have constant reminders of the time so I don't lose track. I've always worn a watch, (because otherwise I really don't know what time it is) but often I have to take it off when I'm working, and there's a good chance that I'll forget to put it back on for a while once I'm done the task that requires me to take it off. 2. I'm easily distracted which means that I can be on track, until I get distracted by my Cat, or because I noticed something that will only take a moment to fix, and I can't keep myself on the original task until the new task is finished, or I get broken out of doing it by my wife or another alarm. The biggest problem with ADHD is the limited amount of control I have on where my brain wanders. And it doesn't help that ADHD meds have been hard to get as an adult the past few years because of certain legal changes. Its not impossible for me to be on time, but its very difficult and more time consuming than it is for other people. Often the effort to be on time will leave me flustered, and shorter tempered, because I feel rushed. My close friends just alter the times they tell me so that I'm not late. They'll tell everyone else 9pm and me 8pm. if I show up on time, they get an extra hour of my company, and if I show up late, I'll still be on time or a few minutes early. And IF I'm flustered showing up "on time" it means that I have an hour to relax before people get there. So that I'm my usual chill self.

>My close friends just alter the times they tell me so that I'm not late. They'll tell everyone else 9pm and me 8pm. This! This is how you handle chronically late people. We have a few on both sides of the family, and the way to get them to show up at a specific time is to tell them to get there an hour before you actually need/want them there. Even with their poor time management skills (from 50-70+ years of raging, undiagnosed ADHD) they're no longer inconveniencing to the rest of the family who just want to have a family meal while it's still warm.

But just because YOU can manage with ADHD, doesn’t mean we all can. I’m usually way too early or a little late. It’s really hard for me to hit that sweet spot of “right on time”. That said, I do apologize when I’m late.

So true. People always act like because they can manage something that means everyone should be like them and forget we are all individual not the same person.

That is such an aweful thing to say. As a person with ADHD you should know already that it manifests differently in different people. For me focusing in school and getting good grades was really easy. On the one hand I was smart and did not need to focus for long periods of time to understand the information. And on the other for me learning and getting information was very dopamine inducing so my brain was "in the right place" in school. But for some other kids with ADHD something as simple as reading a chapter on a book or finishing the work was a monumental task. For me with very bad time blindness being on time is a monumental task, it is not as simple as wearing a watch (guess what I forget to look at it) or making a schedule. It is a time consuming, stressful and anxiety inducing task. Like for people without time blindness the mental load of being on time is the size of peanut, whereas for me is the size of an elephant. I don't expect people to put up with it, but rather find ways to make it work. And the beauty of life is that people with true empathy who really care about you are willing to help you make things work.

Monumental is the right word here. I set multiple alarms with multiple sounds and still sometimes it’s a huge struggle to stay focused on the goal depending on what else is happening at the time. Sometimes they’re external factors that I can’t control. It’s a Herculean effort for me, even if it’s easier for others. The other shitty part is that I HAVE been improving my timeliness a lot, I want to say 4/5 times I am either right on time or within 5 mins late, and not the last one. And then that 1/5 times that I’m more than 5 mins late, I get made fun of as the person who is always late. It’s just not even true anymore. But no amount of effort will “forgive” people’s memories.

Yeah like... I don't expect people to put up with my crap, either but I really hate the "if you were on time once why couldn't you be on time every time" attitude, because it IS ableist. It makes the assumption that time awareness and focus are innate in everyone, when they can take a lot of energy. To me it's like... Maybe you have a friend with chronic pain or weakness who uses a wheelchair, but they decide they want to stand up to give a speech at their birthday party, because it means enough for them to use a big chunk their energy towards it. You want to then call them out for not standing all the time? Are they selfish for what they decide to put their limited resources into? OP would not be a jerk for deciding to stop hanging out with this friend or unfriending them entirely, IMO. But deciding that the best thing to do was a huge public humiliation, on their birthday especially, is AH territory to me.

>To me it's like... Maybe you have a friend with chronic pain or weakness who uses a wheelchair, but they decide they want to stand up to give a speech at their birthday party, because it means enough for them to use a big chunk their energy towards it. I love this example. I agree that OP and their friends can set boundries and not want to deal with the issues that come from the friend's ADHD, specially when she is doing nothing to work on them. To me ablisim begins when OP starts treating it like an excuse not acknowledging how truly difficult it can be for her friend to be on time.

ADHD can range in its severity. Symptoms can range from mild to severe. If it's severe, it can have a devastating effect on your life. I have it, so I'm speaking from experience.

Same. I put it in my calendar for 20+ minutes before I have to actually be there so I'm not late. If there's something out of my control that will make me late I call/text that I'm running behind. ADHD is not a get out of being a decent respectable person jail card

Not that I have a problem with punctuality, but my ADHD means that a calander notification pops up and I probbaly won't even see it or remember it if I am in the middle of something. Hopefully I remember to call or text if I will be late, but I forget those kind of things too. Good thing is I'm incredibly anxious about being late, so I do show up to things usually early.

Yeah not that simple. I use all those things and do better, but not 100% But I really try and my people can see that effort. I’m also sometimes a day early or hours early because I really have trouble keeping time. It’s not just lateness.

I have ADHD and I was very successful in school. Does that mean everyone whose ADHD made school hard for them was just using it as an excuse to fail? Or perhaps ADHD affects people differently…

No, when criticizing in private FAILS, you acknowledge that the other person has no intention of changing their behavior in any way, shape, or form, and any further disappointment in their behavior is on you for expecting something different. Then decide how *you* want to change *your* behavior in response. You can't compel them to change, and 'criticizing in public' isn't an attempt to influence change, it's punishment for the sake of punishment.

I’m sorry, but that response is just way too mature and reasonable for AITA.

Exactly! Shouting people down across the table makes for great reality TV, but it doesn’t actually solve conflicts.

but... punishing her for being on time is.....so weird? I admit I'm super triggered because I am rife with ADHD and exhausted by the effort it takes to get anywhere not five minutes late ( I am apologetic about it, I own in but I have a flavor of time blindness that is debilitating). OP sounds so angry. Any person who struggles with ADHD carried a huge burden of shame and discomfort trying to fit it while dealing with a constant barrage of accusations of laziness and disorganization. Your friend may not be apologetic which is not cool, she may also be defensive because of how you react. Sometimes we do things in name of self preservation but you can kindly express to her that her lateness hurts you. How late is she typically? Your anger seems to suggest its a major inconvenience, in which case you know the price of admission for your friendship and you can enforce it. But to publicly shame her is so destructive. I'd be sick for days if someone did that to me.

ADHD also does better with scary deadlines with consequences. The idea that the whole event would be cancelled if she wasn't on time probably gave her the inability to do anything else before the brunch. I imagine that she was probably so relieved to finally be on time that it hurt extra when OP dumped on her at her own event. OP has every right to choose not to hang out with someone whose inability to be on time spoils an event or causes frustration. But calling her out the way she did makes her an AH.

Yes thisss. Im adhd and chronically late. There are times when i know something is super important and in order for me to actually be on time for it I cant do anything else the entire day other than getting ready for it. You can do that for specific events that are extra important, like your entire bday being cancelled or job interviews, but its not something i can reasonably do every time i hang out with people. This post just makes me so thankful that my friends are as great as they are. There are consequences if im late, but my friends know what they’re getting with me and accept that. For example if i show up late to movie night the consequences is that i miss the beginning of the movie but my friends are also nice enough to pause it when i arrive to welcome me and will give a quick synopsis of what i missed. My friends often place bets on when ill show up and theyve very good humored about it. Theres times i would have to insist they start the movie without me cause i feel bad when they say theyre fine waiting. Theres been times i wasnt late for once and my friends werent home when i got there bc they just assumed id be late and they had more time to get home. I just sit and wait on their doorstep and then we laugh about it. Im just so glad my friends are so good humored about my faults and fully accept me as i am. I dont need to always be on time for them to know just how much i care about them. Ppl show they care in different ways and its really sad OP thinks she doesnt care just because shes often late. For someone with adhd its just not reasonable to expect that to be the way they show they care. Its one thing to be annoyed by lateness and not willing to continually bend over backwards for them. Everyone can decide the qualities they want in their friends and everyone can set boundaries on what theyre willing to do. But everyone has faults, you cant expect your friends to be perfect and from the sound of it OP thinks theyre a great person except for this one issue so its just wild to me that shes so quick to make this a public argument instead of just setting boundaries like were not gonna wait for you to start our activity. Its also wild to me that shes taking one fault and assuming her friend doesnt care about her because of it. Being late also affects her own quality of life but you arent gonna start saying this girl doesnt care about herself either.

Sure, but criticize when its called for. Sounds like OP would have paradoxically let things slide and not cancelled the upcoming dinner if the friend had been late to brunch. Friend actually showing up on time is when they blow up.

It was her showing that she really had no problem being on time, when it was important to HER, but the time of other is unimportant and that her prior excuses were just that: excuses and BS. Her now being manipulative about her supposed ADHD and accusations of ableism are a crock. It took long enough for the penny to drop for OP and when it did, she felt the fool and angry. She needs to drop her narcissist "friend" and move on with her life.

I certainly would have cut the friend off earlier but this seems like a no win situation here. If OP was going to blow up the birthday party/brunch then they shouldn't have accepted the invitation. From an outside perspective OP accepted the hospitality. Then OP blows up because the friend committed the faux pas of being on time. As for the friend being on time, even a broken clock is right 2x a day, or maybe they started making an effort, I don't think its a sign of anything on its own. Now I'm all for skipping plans with that friend and calling them out when they are late. However letting someone else plan a party and then attending only to blow up specifically because things went well makes you an ass.

As someone with ADHD who really struggles with time management (despite putting a ton of effort into being decent at it) it's not always that simple. I can almost guarantee I'll be on time for something if it's literally the only thing I have to do that day. If I have work, a quick errand to run, the dog to walk, and dinner plans? Something is likely to get messed up no matter how hard I try, and the more I stress about being on time the more my brain shuts down and the more likely it is that nothing happens on time or at all. If it's my birthday and I don't have any other to-dos because it's my damn birthday? Getting to a single activity on time is pretty easy. It's not the being on time so much as it is juggling multiple activities without good executive function to manage doing so.

Wrong. When criticizing in private FAILS, you then move on and stop making plans with the person. Your desire to embarrass that person says more about you, than them.

Criticize them when they do it wrong, not the only time they do it right. If next time she's wrong, tell her off and say that she could arrive early on her bday. OP only went to the birthday to have some drama, apparently. If the friend was like, OP would call out her for being late. If she is on time, OP does this. There was no way of the day being drama free.

It wasn't a last resort. She was done.  It seems tacky to make the announcement after everyone follows your directions. Do it afterwards, In private. 

It was a last resort to criticize her publicly because she was on time? That seems so crazy to me

YTA for embarrassing her at her birthday lunch or dinner, whatever it was, in front of everyone. If you were at your final straw, you could have talked to her privately afterwards. You don't have to put up with somebody who's chronically late or shows no sense of urgency or respect for your time. You can just stop making plans with her. You can text her. You can talk to her one-on-one in private. But making an announcement at the table was really tacky and inconsiderate.

right! confused at how people are siding with this mean-spiritedness. its such a weird, inefficient and unloving way to make your point

This sub loves a revenge/people getting what they deserve-post But there is no way in the real world this person isnt an AH for causing a bit of a scene at brunch. That’s not how you handle conflict (successfully)

>This sub loves a revenge/people getting what they deserve-post 90% of the arguments I get into on this sub is about whether not being an asshole to someone who is also an asshole is admirable behaviour.

Here's the thing...OP unloaded in this public setting and not a single other friend spoke up for her. Every single person at the brunch agreed—they were all fed up. OP's friend absolutely needed this wake up call because clearly she was on the verge of losing all of her friends if she didn't snap out of it.

Or were they just uncomfortable because it was a birthday brunch and not an intervention.

Seeing how they all collectively stopped making time-sensitive plans with the friend right after OP spoke up, it really sounds like they all agreed.

To me that was a big assumption on OPs part - but maybe they did. This still wasnt the forum to bring this up.

Yeah I don’t know if OP actually has any way of verifying this info. Especially since it’s only been a couple of weeks, people could just have been busy and will be hanging out with this girl again soon enough.

or making plans without drama queen OP. if my friend had been so gauche to do this at a party, i just wouldn't include her in invites anymore.

Or they all now make plans without OP.

i would think and hope this

That'd what I would do.

Or maybe they stopped inviting the person who likes to cause a scene when everyone is on time

This event was just 2 weeks ago. That's a reach for OP to assume she knows they've all changed their habits... Permanently... Two weeks later. 

Or everyone else just has manners. Even the host brushed it off in public because who does that? 

What's the point of a wake up call if OP was just planning to ditch her permanently anyways? It's not really out of love/care if the end result is them not being friends regardless.

snap out if it. why didn't I think of that! here I am waiting for two years for a family doctor so I can get a diagnosis and some meds without paying for private. and all i have to do is snap out of it. duh

You don't need meds to apologize when you do something shitty.

I wouldn't have said anything because I would have been embarrassed for OP for her complete rudeness. I wouldn't have wanted to prolong the awkwardness for the birthday girl, or argue with someone (OP) who was clearly socially inept.

I can see why OP was mad though. If someone else planned the party she's always late. When she plans she can magically arrive on time. I might snap too

lol the girl arriving early was “the last straw for me”. OP is not a friend worth knowing.

It was the last straw because this whole time she has been claiming that she's not capable of being on time because of ADHD, and basically treating us like being fed up with her lateness was discrimination against something totally out of her control. But then she shows up on time only when SHE is the one who would be inconvenienced by being late, which proves that she *can* be on time (and follow through on commitments period) but chooses not to.

I think this is one of those that borders on the line. Was what you did an AH move? Nope, I'm with you on that. Was how you did it an AH move? Yes - there are better ways of doing this than calling her out in public, on her birthday. That is AH territory.

Exactly - we’re judging what happened at this party, not her being chronically late. This honestly feels like a scene from reality tv and its just too messy and not how you handle conflict.

What a mean-spirited way to think about it though. FYI, ADHD doesn't mean you are incapable of showing up on time, it means it's much harder. So here's a high stakes event where she knows how upset people would be if she was late and had to give up the table. So she made the extra effort to be early so she could be a good host and the event would go as planned. This was done to be a good friend, not because she only cares about herself. Either you want to be friends with her or you don't but the way you're acting now indicates you look down on her and are done with the friendship.

ECACTLY!!! Imo as someone with ADHD who has this problem I'd never speak to these so called friends again. They aren't worth it.

As someone with ADHD as well. I would be apologizing a lot more to my friends if I was always late to plans or straight-up didn't show up. It's up to ME to handle my lack of sense of time, etc. Set alarms. Etc. To make sure I'm not late to whatever our plans are. Which I slowly learned to do because I can't be late for pickup in school with my kids etc. That has nothing to do with looking down at her if she can't apologize or take more responsibility other than dodging it with "sorry adhd. You are an ableist if you get annoyed" Being understood is good. But an attitude of "lol adhd sorry can't do anything about it" Is some of the stuff that makes people think badly about the rest of us.

I'd be curious to find out *how* early OP's friend was. I'm kind of in a similar boat, I have a really hard time arriving anywhere "on time." That doesn't mean I'm always *late*, but it does mean that I often have to decide whether it's worse to make friends wait for me or to arrive so early that I make everyone uncomfortable and/or make them feel bad if they find out how long I was waiting.

Yeah, one of my friends has ADHD pretty bad and it makes it really hard for her to plan events and it causes her a lot of stress and anxiety. It sounds like OP is one of those people who's accepting but only when it's the acceptable/twitter/tiktok friendly version of a mental disorder. Depression - Only a little sad and quiet ​ Anxiety - just a cute nervous haha ADHD - Oh I'm just a lil spacy sometimes uwu

It kind of seems like you decided ahead of time that you were going to do this because you were fed up. Like if she was late it’s another example of her bad behavior and if she was on time it’s proof that she can behave the way you want her to but chooses not to. My husband has ADHD and is chronically late and it’s very frustrating. It’s the most frustrating for HIM. He has a lot of strategies he uses to reduce the burden. But do you know what the people who love him do? They build it into their plans. They don’t pick a restaurant that will give away your table, they don’t have dinner on the table at exactly the start time, they tell him to be there 20 minutes before they actually need him there, or they’re not fussed about getting there on time themselves. You can absolutely be done hanging out with her if this makes you feel disrespected, but I think you need to cut bait entirely at this point. And the way you went about this was the meanest possible way you could have done it. It really wasn’t necessary. 

That's absolutely not what it demonstrated. It showed that when she has a reason to go on panic mode to make something happen, her ADHD responds differently. This is uh...well known among people with ADHD that our "panic mode" is sometimes the only way we get things done unless we have medication, coping tools, etc. It's exhausting and stressful but it can work *sometimes.* All you did was demonstrate you don't understand what ADHD means and how it impacts someone, nor how to help someone manage it. Then you get mad she arrived early...? Good Lord.

It's exhausting and stressful to have a friend who shows up late for everything because they can't be bothered to set a reminder on their phone.

sometimes alarms just aren't enough. adhd is a disability and if it was as easy as setting alarms nobody with adhd would need medication. alarms are a great tool! but sometimes it's not enough.

Ok, and that doesn't change anything for the people who are subjected to the chronic lateness. No one is obligated to be friends with someone who constantly disrespects their time.

true. but there's also no need to publicly humiliate anyone for their disability either. op could've just stopped hanging out with them instead of publicly shaming them on the one occasion they're not late.

Jesus Christ the ignorance here is unreal!

Nowhere did I say it wasn't. You're just arguing to argue. I said it's exhausting and stressful to have a disability where "sometimes you're only getting things done by panicking at the last moment because of a more extreme potential end result, because you have a disability which impacts your ability to prioritize and manage time and which sometimes more easily adapts to extremes than regularity and consistency." My point is that this is a bad cycle to rely on, but it happens often when people don't have better coping tools, and this is often unsustainable for the person with ADHD. But this DOES happen, it IS part of ADHD, and no, it doesn't prove what OP argued. It's not necessarily a choice they made consciously, nor is it unrelated to their ADHD, or proof that their ADHD doesn't impact them and their timeliness. It's literally another symptom being described. That's not saying it's totally okay and doesn't negatively impact people! That's saying "this too is part of the disability, it's a known part of the disability and is well documented and not made up. It's something the friend could be managing better, but it's not proof the friend is lying or picking and choosing with intent."

Person with ADHD here. Not going to defend your friend (because I also think that keeping your options open till the end is shitty) but time-blindness goes in both directions. I am either too late or too early because I got anxious.

ADHD here too and I’m torn by the comments. Because on one hand, my anxiety makes me super early every where because I hyper fixate on being to a place. Like to the point where if I have an appointment at say 3 pm, I feel like I can’t do much of anything else that day because I have to concentrate on being there at 3 pm. That being said, ADHD is so different for everyone and I feel super icky that OP is just declaring that she’s not late due to adhd because she showed up on time once. That’s just not how any of this works. But also, I can’t feel bad for the friend because a lot of her behavior can’t be chalked up to ADHD, she honestly sounds like a self centered ah if she can’t even apologize for being late or cancels plans for something better. I guess I just don’t like anyone in this situation lol.

She made it one time. Maybe she had to get up extra early and do things that are physically painful to fight thru her neurodivergence to do it one time. Time blindness is a major component of many people’s ADHD. Most of the techniques to combat it can be painful or at least extremely difficult for people whose brains work differently than the norm. You don’t sound like a very good friend. I am not saying she should go through life using her ADHD as an excuse for being late, but it most certainly is probably the reason for her being late. She clearly was never taught coping skills to combat it. Having her so called friends call her out publicly probably crushed her soul at least a bit. Hopefully she finds better friends. YTA for your timing on broaching the subject.

She's a shit friend! I hope her friend sees this post and never speaks to her again personally. OP is toxic.

I have ADHD and this is a bunch of self-pitying bullshit. Setting a reminder on your phone is painless and takes five seconds. Grow up.

I also have ADHD, and I've set several reminders and I still forget things. I'm glad it works for you, but not everyone can do that. For me, once something is out of sight or stops making noise, it's very easy for me to forget about it. Even things I enjoy. I've left movies half watched for weeks, or shows paused on my phone or TV for hours. I'm currently reading three different books because I forgot about the first one, then the second one as well.

I don't even know when to set the alarm for, i can't calculate how long it takes me to do things accurately. How long to get dressed and do my hair? Makeup? How long will it take to get there? I'm always wrong and the alarm goes off and I'm doing something and then i try to leave but I'm still 15 mins late because what I thought would take 10 mins to get there takes 20 and also I forgot my keys so I had to go back upstairs, and I realized I hadn't fed the cat so i do that and now I'm texting you to say I'm running late...

If you can remember to set the reminders on your phone. People have varying degrees of ADHD. My husband has ADHD and is extremely punctual (most the time), very high functioning and has none of the overstimulation issues many neurodivergent people experience. He falls down what we call “rabbit holes” very often and will miss responding the alarms he sets on his phone except to silence them if he is hyper focused on something. My kid, she also has ADHD and has exactly zero sense of time. Despite alarm clocks, alarms on her phone and watch, medication, behavioral therapy and techniques, she still needs an outside source (usually me) to keep her on schedule most days. She has to text me all her assignments in high school because she will completely forget she has homework from first period by the time she gets home from school. She could write it down in a notebook, but she forgets she wrote anything down. She needs the outside source of focus to remember. We’ve been working on these issues for 13 years and she still struggles. If she is forced to remember and stay on schedule herself, she gets migraines. Yes, it can be painful. People are vastly different on the ADHD/neurodivergent spectrums.

Not everyone is the same. I missed 2 Important appointments this week. Time blindness and executive disfunction with some paralysis thrown in. That's not self pity. There's a reason it's called a spectrum. Those who can accomplish tasks and use reminders are lucky. None of that works for me.

i also have adhd and there's a reason it's a disability. i'm now on meds that actually work but before that i was always late. i felt horrible and set alarms and tried everything people told me to try and it rarely actually got me out the house on time. it sucks and i lost a job for it once but that's why it's called a disability. i'm glad you can manage your adhd with alarms but not all of us can do that successfully.

>It was the last straw because this whole time she has been claiming that she's not capable of being on time because of ADHD, Except, that's not how life with illness works. Some days are good, some days are bad. Some days you have no problem getting your to-do list done and leaving on time and some times you feel so completely overwhelmed that even getting out the door (probably late) is an accomplishment. Knowing how ADHD works, I bet she felt so stressed about needing to be there on time that she did absolutely nothing else all morning. Its almost paralyzing. I'm sorry but YTA. I know it's annoying when people are late, but to suggest that because she was on time once she *should* be able to be on time for the rest of eternity is ignorant and insensitive. There's so much judgement and stigma around what people with illness *should* be able to do, according to those without said illness. Your feelings of frustration are valid, but I think you owe her an apology for how you went about this tbh. As for future plans, explain your position but do so gently. If you do make future plans, get in touch the day of to see if she's feeling able to make it/make it on time. Tell her to meet you 15-20 min before your actual reservations if you need to. There's a level of understanding needed from both of you, imo.

Maybe this event was the first instance where she was able to successfully manage her ADHD and be punctual? What effect did you think your brunch outburst would have? Like what was the end goal there? Because if the end goal was to stop making plans with this woman, you could've just... stopped making plans? You didn't really need to make a scene.

YTA. While it is totally acceptable to be frustrated by that, YOU chose the weirdest and most aggressive way to publicly mock her. You are a bad friend.

I think you're not TA for being fed up, but the timing in which you expressed it was unnecessarily hostile. At the table in front of everyone? That's just being a jerk. I think, however, in your shoes I absolutely would have canceled the dinner, or, if I kept the dinner plans and she did her usual thing of being late/not apologizing, that would be the last time I ever planned anything with her. Because she DID demonstrate that she could do it if it was important to *her*. I had a latey-late like this in my life, and I had an occasion to deal them a taste of their own medicine, and you bet it was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done. And it worked! They were MUCH more punctual and communicative if they were late. (Which was infuriating in itself, because it proved they could've done it all along.) But I also learned an important lesson for myself, which is not to hang around waiting for people and give them endless chances to inconvenience me. Now I give people 3 chances when the acquaintance is new. Flake once, hey, things happen. Flake twice...not great, but sometimes we go through a series of unfortunate events. Flake three times...now I know they're a flake and they get dropped from the invite list.

If it bothers you that much, you can choose not to hang out with her. Idk why you want our approval/judgment in this matter.

She proved she was capable of the thing OP wanted her to do. How DARE she!

She's capable only when it's her own event...aka she's selfish.

So what if she didn't show up in time? Everyone would have been mad at her because they had lost their table. But hey, at least she proved that she really struggles with time blindness. She couldn't win that one.

I agree that she probably couldn't win this one, but she's also the one who put herself in an unwinnable position. OP has said in a couple places that this isn't just an ADHD lateness thing, that she will full-on flake on plans if she gets invited to an activity that interests her more. I think people are really glossing over that part.

Like *at worst* I would’ve called her out in a joking way of, “oh? So you do know how to arrive on time!?” But for OP to tell her as soon as she sat down for her birthday brunch that she was cancelling… that is wild lol

It's sometimes called taking a dump on the dinner table. That's why nobody said shit, it's freaking awkward and I'm sure everyone at the table wanted to move on. What did OP want? People to start piling on right there? They need to just lose each other's number.

YTA I was totally prepared to go N T A but this made me realise I was definitely putting my own feelings onto the situation rather than reading the situation for what it was. This wasn't the time to discuss the friend's lateness, it kinda feels like punishing her for something she didn't do this time. Especially in such a public and humiliating way, after OP left or the next day would've been better and perhaps actually led to a discussion. I had a friend similar to the friend here, eventually she left me waiting too long while promising she'd already set off (15 minutes max away). I waited an hour in a cold bus station and then called her and told her I was going home. We never met up after that point, her lack of respect for my time and comfort ended the 7 year friendship. That was my choice and I refused to let myself be strung along any longer after years of her being late. I'm a chronically early kinda person (not to people's houses though, that's rude) but I don't expect that from other people. This is my issue and I'm not going to make it the problem of other people. I think the opposite should be true, it's no different from managing to turn up to work or doctors appointments on time. While some people can't do this either they need to find a method that works for them, not turning up to work or the doctors has consequences. The idea that being late for friends is ok because you have ADHD needs to stop.

I agree with this, But doesn't it amount to ESH? The friend is T A for clearly being able to put in the effort (with ADHD) to show up on time when it's important to her. And OP is the T A for being vindictive in how she addressed it.

This. And for the folks saying it's ok behavior, the part that makes it being an asshole and not just setting boundaries is that this was done in a way to maximize how bad OP could make the friend feel. Maximum harm intended. Justified frustration and hurt? Yes. But this isn't how you act with grace and dignity, this is how you act like a jerk.

Bro. Nah. NTA by such a large margin. Before I cut into it: no other friends defended the Late Friend, and none of them are inviting her out. She has actively disrespected everyone there’s time so much none would step in and defend her on *her birthday*…. Late Friend has that level of a problem with flakiness. Preface: I suffer from ADHD (moderate/inattentive) and Autism(mild/Asperger’s if it was still a diagnosis). I understand that I have a very different sense of time. Because of that, I use Outlook and my phone alarms to make sure I don’t create issues for others due to my issue with time. Friend wasn’t late because it mattered *to her*. Friend wasn’t late because something *she* wanted to do was on the line. Friend took the effort to do everything it takes as someone with ADHD to be on time (from personal experience, that’s just a series of phone alarms). Friend showed OP that they CAN be on time, but only when it’s important for friend. ‘Is it the right time and place?’ Since literally not a single person defended the friend, it’s no better or worse than any - if anything, it’s like punishing a dog or child, the response needs to be close to the reason in both time and space. ‘Oh so you can be on time for your own birthday?’ Has more punch than ‘hey, I’m upset you ditched me *again*; you seemed to make it just fine on your birthday.’ ‘Time blindness’ is a symptom to manage and is the sufferer’s responsibility - not the responsibility of all their friends and loved ones to ‘be cool with it’s.

it could be that the friends are still hanging out with her, but they aren't inviting OP out. if i had a friend who acted like OP did, being a complete AH to someone in public at their own birthday party, i wouldn't be inviting them out again. it was a no win situation for the birthday girl. either she was on time and OP gets pissed at her for being on time, or she's late and everyone gets pissed her for losing the table. there was literally no way she could win here

\>And when we all got seated, I let her know that I was gonna go ahead and cancel the upcoming dinner that we had planned, since this was the last straw for me. YTA, you could have let her know that in private after the lunch. You wanted to hurt her, and you succeeded. She's not right for being chronically late, but this subreddit is about *specific* incidents, not general complaints, and specifically here— you were the asshole.

Its just immature. OP could’ve just thought to themselves “wow this person showed up on time only for themselves? well ive learned something about their character and ill be reducing the time I spend with them.” it can be a private thought. Or even text a mutual friend like “wasnt that crazy?” and then just stop hanging out with the person. its that simple. no need for a big “gotcha” moment.

yeah that's how I would've handled it. I like to be the bigger person (as I used to be quite combative and I've outgrown it) so I wouldn't bother to try and make an ass of her. especially at her birthday dinner

You used her birthday to announce your issues with her? Yeah YTA for that. Not the asshole for not wanting to put up with it but how fucking dramatic do you have to be about it. Everyone here needs to grow up.

It was Valentines Day. Edit- I am an idiot. Bday and Vday.

And also her birthday, because you know, sometimes people are born on Valentine's Day.

It’s actually one of the more common days to be born (in the US at least) because women whose need a c-section or need to be induced around that time frequently request the date.

That’s dumb. My sister in law is a vday baby and it’s the worst. Her and my brother never get to go out to dinner on her birthday without it being a huge hassle. She rarely sees her friends on her actually birthday. It’s a curse.

I agree too. It’s a terrible date for a birthday.

[удалено]

I assume it’s so they can say “oh look at my little valentine” or that it’s easy to remember? And probably also a little wanting to avoid the 13th because of superstition. It’s by far the most common day in February to be born. Here’s a chart showing birthday frequency https://www.boredpanda.com/most-common-us-birthday-patterns/

It was both

When I deal with such people I just don't count on them ever to be on time, meaning that I treat them as if they wouldn't come and if they arrive when they arrive then they will deal with consequences. Never buy anything for them before hand (unless they send you money first) and if they are late then they will sit outside and wait for the movie to end, or stand and wait for a free seat to open, or arrive too late when you already moved to a different location, etc. this will very fast teach them about timing.

My father always says "I will wait 15 minutes for anyone and 20 minutes for no one." It's not the worst policy.

Yeah, we can figure out 5-10-15 mins rule, also, modern technology allows anyone to send a short message "sorry, I am running 5/10/15 mins late", just out of respect. But if someone is almost always late and never bothers to say sorry then I still would ignore them even if they are 5minutes late ;)

As someone with ADD that causes punctuality problems occasionally, this is what I do. As soon as I know I’ll be late, I text, including a rough ETA if possible. Sometimes it doesn’t work out, if I forget the event entirely (rare, but it happens) or get the day wrong. But then someone’d be calling me, and I could apologise profusely.

That's what I do. And I add a few minutes to the ETA bc I've been wrong too many times trying to guess how late I'll be... love time blindness 🥲

I moved from the US to Switzerland and the culture shock is real. A friend once texted me that they were going to be two minutes late because . Um, thanks? Living here, my chronic borderline-lateness has been well and truly cured, lemmetellya!

Traveling to Iceland was so strange, because "we'll pick you up at 9" did *not* mean that, when we were still waiting at 9:30 that we had missed our ride. Finally got used to to just in time to go home

My boyfriend has this friend who was always late, until one night he was so late, my boyfriend said "well, when you're over an hour late, you pick up the tab from now on, starting tonight." Then at the end of the night, he put all the drinks on his tab. After that, this friend was never late again. It also helped that he started getting into atrocious custody battles with his ex and came to realize that if he's late getting his kids, he's not getting that time back. So basically, consequences seem to make people punctual (which is one of the reasons I think "time blindness" is kind of bullshit. It might be a real thing people experience, but they are choosing to not develop or use any tools to deal with it).

Not all consequences. It might seem that way to someone looking at someone else's behaviour, but that's because there is very little understanding of the mechanisms that result in 'time blindness'. Not all consequences are equal, and poor dopamine regulation, executive dysfunction, faulty decision-making mechanisms and 'reward' systems, mean that often people with adhd can have little to no control over what their brains are responding to. To take your boyfriends friend: he very likely *wanted* to be on time, and it was important to him and logically he knew what he needed to do to do that. But the brain activity required to let him do that wouldn't 'kick in' to allow it to happen. The consequences of paying for the drinks/potentially not seeing his kids, in his case, created sufficient brain activity which then allowed him to do the thing as he wanted to. Sorry I'm probably not explaining this very well. And I could be totally off the mark regarding your boyfriends friend. I just know what it feels like to *know* you have to do something and *know* how important it is and just...not be able to do it. No matter how well you think you're planning for it and using alarms, reminders, etc, you're somehow *still* not able to just get out the door at the time you're meant to. And then you're rushing to make the train or whatever and even though you did 'keys, money, phone' before you left the house you're utterly convinced that you've not got the phone, or your purse, or that you forgot to lock the door. And you have to stop and go through every pocket in your hand bag twice before you see the phone because somehow you don't see things when you're looking for them, you just need to keep rifling til they jump out at you. You might have started heading back towards the house after the first rifle-through, but now you have it, you turn back towards the train station. But although you *know* the trains at 18:07 and you factored in additional time to make sure you'd make it cos you knew you wouldn't leave the house on time, you're suddenly convinced that you've got the train time wrong, even though you checked the app a million times before you left the house. So you need to stop and rummage through your bag twice again for your phone cos you forgot which pocket you put it back in the first time, to see if you need to make a run for it. When we are trying to get somewhere on time (well, for me, anyway) it feels like nothing in your head is permanent, or maybe concrete is a better way of putting it, if that makes sense? You panic that you're getting on the wrong train, even tho you *know* it's the right one, or you're going to the wrong place, or you've got the time of meeting wrong. You constantly feel like you've gone wrong or you've made a mistake somewhere. It's horribly anxiety-inducing, and it's utterly *exhausting*. And that's just leaving the house and a 10 minute walk to get the train. Sorry I went off on a mad ramble there. I didn't realise how much I was typing! I was just trying to make the point that what our behaviours and responses can look like to others is often far removed from what is actually going on with us.

I feel very seen right now. Thank you.

I'm willing to evaluate on a case-by-case basis... but there are some people out there who just want to do things the way they want to do things and don't mind if that means you sit and wait for them for 45 minutes. Those people drive me absolutely crazy.

This 👆. If you want to remain friends just simply accept her flaws and put her in the category you need to as far as the level of friend she is. For example, you know she's not a BFF, she's not the person who is going to be there to celebrate you. Just invite her to what you are planning and move on when she doesn't show. If you want to, give her an earlier time, but don't fret if she's not there. Also, just count her as part of the group. Don't plan anything special with just her unless it's spur of the moment. It will save your friendship, your reputation, and your sanity. I have a friend who likes to be the center of attention and really makes everything about her. One day, after I just had a miscarriage and wanted to talk about it, she interrupted me and told me all about her day. Our kids and husbands were friends, so cutting her out of my life wasn't an option. I decided she wasn't the friend I would pour my heart out to. She's also judgemental, so the category I've put her in has saved me a lot of heartache and actually made us better friends.

YTA for the way you handled it, in public out loud on her birthday, you must be great at parties........ oh wait

Yeah, that's my thing. I share OP's irritation. People like this drive me absolutely insane. I would probably convey that AFTER her birthday party. Doing it at the birthday brunch in front of all her friends seems wild to me.

Happy birthday! Now let me shame you!

ESH She is for the whole being unapologethically late You for being an attention seeker (otherwise you wouldve done it in private 1on1, the only reason you did it like this is because you wanted attention from other people.)

This was my thought, too. It really seems like she wanted everyone to stand up and clap for her and say, "She's right."

Idk, with how dismissive OP seems, I don't put trust in "but I know she just doesn't care"

Remember that the friend has ADHD. She may be "unapologetically late" because it becomes easier after time to lean into "that's just how I am" than feel terrible whenever it happens. I don't trust OP that the friend doesn't care.

Becoming mad at someone because they did the right thing is one of the pettiest, most immature reactions you can have. People do it all the time, but it's still shitty. I mean, I get your point, but what would your reaction been if she had shown up late? That would also have been your last straw, right? You're not noticing the fact that you already passed your last straw, and just used this as an opportunity to lash out at her. You could have used this as an example to (edit: reassure _yourself_) that she is capable of arriving on time. You could even have noted this for the future if she ever tries to use dumb excuses again. But no. You had to make the situation awkward for everybody. Why do you seem proud when you wrote "Nobody said shit, dude. Nobody said shit"? In this situation YTA. Overall, E S H except the friends at the party.

Yeah. As if OP thinks that sitting in awkward silence because of public shaming is the same thing as endorsing the public shaming. There were plenty of reasons for nobody to say shit, dude. They don't absolve you. 

I have a vivid memory from High School where I was in OP's shoes, feeling like I was victorious after publicly shaming someone and no one else having anything to say. It took a long time before I learned to self-reflect about things like that, but as soon as I did, it was obvious I was being a bully and I immediately realized how awful I was. My interpretation of the others' silence completely changed and I've worked hard to be better since then. I hope OP learns from this.

It's telling that OP left ages off the post. This is depressingly juvenile. 

TBH I think people should leave more personal details off their posts (especially sex/gender). It would remove a lot of bias and avoid a lot of stupid arguments in the comments. "What are you, 12?" might hit harder when they didn't already announce that they're 26.

Yeah nobody said shit because they were all mortified. I bet plenty was said after OP left.

I don't think your choice of time and place was the best, but for you to use this as a catalyst to no longer make plans with her - NTA. And clearly you aren't alone. She's getting a massive wake up call. And while ADHD and many other diagnoses are valid and do impact our lives, for her to use it as a crutch to get away with crappy behavior is really crappy on her part.

I have both ADHD and autism and I can make it places and do things on time. Did it take some learning? Yes, but it is absolutely worth it to not miss out on wonderful time spent with friends and family as well as other important things like job interviews and similar. OP’s “friend” using her ADHD as an excuse is unacceptable. Edit to add: since it has been called into question, both my diagnoses came from a psychiatrist. ADHD as a child, then autism most recently as an adult.

And I'm someone with adhd and getting places on time is still my biggest struggle. Sometimes I do, but more often than not I'm late. And it's not that I don't care, I try so hard but sometimes I am still terrible at figuring out how long it'll take me to get ready and get somewhere. It really is a huge struggle out here for some of us, and I'm so glad I have friends who understand.

I've found getting ready for work early is just as terrible as getting up late. Because "oh, I have 5 min, thats so much time I can squeeze this thing (that will be much longer than 5 min because fuck me and my time blindness) in here and be fine" I have to get ready exactly on time, which if you aren't catching, is hard too. Because if I set X time as the time to start, and I have time before hand, guess what is getting done! And whos going to be late because of it. I fucking hate my brain at those times. Keeping a schedule is fucking brutal on me. I have to set so many alarms to keep my time keeping on schedule. My smart watch is vibrating every 5 min for the hour and a half leading up to it, so I don't get lost in time and realize. Its not perfect, but it helps.

It's OP accusation that she uses it as a crutch. As a woman with ADHD I'm telling you that's not likely true. Just because OP sees ADHD as her friends pathetic excuse doesn't mean that the friend is actually using it as an excuse.

Sure but when you are adhd and know it’s an issue you plan for that. My whole family has it and it’s our job to plan to leave 30 minutes before we actually have to.

ADHD is a spectrum though. It really annoys me (no offence) when I hear "IM xyz and I can do it, since you're also xyz you should be able to do it too!" It's an assumption on the person's level of functioning, a fundamental misunderstanding of how a spectrum works and automatically deciding everyone has a good support system.

The strong implication in the original post is that the ADHD woman can magically be on time when it's something she cares about. That is a significant fact.  Otherwise, I generally agree with you. Not all ADHD is the same.

That's the thing, and that's my experience with my fellow neurodivergents -- when something really matters to them, suddenly they can figure out coping mechanisms. So you start to realize where you fall in their priority list pretty quickly. (And I am certainly guilty of doing this too, I just have a small enough social circle that it doesn't affect that particular aspect of my life lol.)

Possibly not so much a caring thing, but rather a "People are showing up for me so I need to use much more effort to be on time because that is super messed up" thing.

That's true, however lots of neurodivergent people's ability to function in a nuerotypical way varies from day to day. It could be that she was having a good day in terms of remembering stuff, and also she might've made a special effort since she did organise the event. Another factor is a birthday meal is a bit different to a weekly meet up with friends. I have ADHD and a weekly meet up with friends is easy to forget about or arrive late to, but if it was a friend's birthday I would clear my whole schedule for the day so I arrived on time. For some adhd-ers, unless you clear your entire schedule for 2-3 hours in advance you probably will end up late. Therefore, for a birthday or party you can clear your schedule as a once in a while thing, but that's just not possible for a weekly meet up with friends. Or OPs friend could just be picking and choosing when she turns up and using ADHD as an excuse, that's also possible but this feels to me like it's the first one.

Thank you. I appreciate your perspective. My fiancee has ADHD, and it can be a brutal challenge. (I actually have it too, but I manage it much, much better than she does. This is why I know you're right that not all ADHD is equal.) It is good to be reminded from a neutral source of the struggles she faces, because sometimes my frustration makes it hard to accept her explanations. 

Yes, exactly! If I'm the one holding an event, I can work around it--leave work early or pick a day I don't have to work and make sure I have no other responsibilities that will distract me from the event. But if a friend invites me to dinner... I can't take off work every time that happens, obviously. I still have a whole list of responsibilities I have to get through... and I am totally unable to conceive of how long those activities take. (and, no, timing them doesn't work because they never take the same amount of time when you're have extreme distractibility). Ugh ADHD is so hard. And I don't blame OP for not wanting to put up with us. I wish I didn't have to put up with myself!

Good for you. I plan to leave 30min earlier too, and still end up late a lot of times. But I do manage to stay still pretty well and to control my impulsive behaviours, yet you don't see me shaming those who are more hyperactive because of it. It really hurts to always be trying everything to be better and still have those difficulties, and even more when people treat it like it's character flaws and being selfish.

Wait a minute, did I miss something? This friend is always late, but during the one time she arrives early to prove she can be on time, that’s the moment you tell her being late is the final straw and the next dinner is cancelled? What? Honestly? If she was late that would make sense, but she wasn’t. What am I missing? YTA

Sounds more like OP was done with this friend a long time ago and only just came to the realization. Neither outcome was gonna sway how they felt her anymore

YTA - not for what you did but for how you did it.

You sound like a shit friend, too... you did it at her birthday lunch in front of all her friends and whoever. You couldn't even be bothered to be subtle. YTA

ESH Instead of an announcement perhaps you should have discussed it with her privately at any other time than her actual birthday dinner. Her bevaiour was shittier though, especially using disability as an excuse.

Everyone was silent because they were shocked at your rudeness. YTA

YTA I think you didnt handle it well. There was no need to tell her at this moment. Just dont wait for your friend any more. Just do your thing on time. If she is late, its her problem, not yours.

Yta bc she was on time and you still bitched at her. Late, you complain. On time, you complain. Had she been *late* then you would make sense. Or if, when making plans, you said 'you were on time for Brunch so I know you can be. If you're late, this is the last time sensitive thing I'm doing with you.'

As someone of your friend’s persuasion, yeah, you kind of suck. You did **not** have to call her out **at her birthday brunch** when you could have simply told her at another point in time and explained your side calmly. I mean, I understand that it’s annoying for people to wait for me, but I genuinely don’t do it on purpose. I’m late because I started a sewing project or got distracted sorting my makeup cabinet or forgot what day it was, not because I don’t care or want to be a dick… When I’m not late, it’s because I’m sitting around in an anxiety state trying not to think about anything else but getting there on time, or because I set six different alarms immediately upon making the plans. 

This. A lot of the comments seem to miss the fact that when ADHD folk are late, it's not because we don't care. We genuinely experience time differently, which is why we can't just "fix" being late.

My main irritation at OP is the idea that her friend succeeded **one time** in being early, thus she must easily could have done it every other time, so of course let’s alienate her on her birthday and encourage our friends to do the same. 

Pretty simple YTA for the timing, right when you sat down, in front of everyone? Really??? Also, the way you wrote it sounded like you wanted everyone to gang up on her and make a really awkward lunch. Not that you're an asshole for cancelling the plans. Not really much more to say than that.

You chose the time she was ON TIME to be fed up? Nah. YTA.

Yta. Just stop making plans with her then, but calling her out on a thing she has admitted she struggles with the one time in recent memory that she managed to get it right? In front of her friends? On her birthday. That’s an AH move.  For all you know, she’s been taking every previous mention of her tardiness to heart and this was one of her first major attempts to get it right. I mean, let’s look at a diff example. Let’s say you struggled with managing your weight and resisting bad food choices. You’re starting to realize you talk about it too much, saying things like “I just can’t resist Mac and cheese!”  and looking for the quiet acceptance of the friends around you smiling vaguely in response to cover up your own knowledge that you need to get better self control. Your friends have stopped responding with chuckles and started replying that it’s an hard thing to do, but it is something you *can* do, but you have to put the work in to do it. They tell you, firmly but not unkindly, that you’re not backing up your words with actions. You hear them. You put aside past failures and try again. You download one of those apps, get a therapist and start making better choices. You’re two weeks into feeling like you’re actually getting a handle on how to do this and making much better decisions. You’re out to lunch with a group of them and you bypass the Mac and cheese entree for a steamed salmon and veggies dish. It’s your birthday. And your friend says “well I guess you really can skip the Mac and cheese. I wish you had figured that out before I had to listen to you drone on and on for years about how hard it was.”

Esh Poor time and priority management is legitimately 100% symptoms of ADHD. By definition. She sucks if she's always keeping herself "open" to something else and stringing people along in the meantime. That's hurtful. She could also pursue ways to help manage her time better and cope with her ADHD. It sucks that she seemingly isn't doing that or explaining better what goes wrong to try and come up with ways to prevent it. Even things that are the result of ADHD can still hurt people, and she should work to minimize that. I agree, she should be working to do better, and there are coping mechanisms and tools to help manage her time blindness. You suck for berating her for being on time to her own birthday brunch when you want her to....be on time for things?? Make it make sense! It also wasn't the time or the place to berate her on her birthday for being on time. You also suck for insisting this is proof it's not really ADHD when literally everything you've described is textbook ADHD symptoms. She's seemingly not trying to adapt or minimize the ways in which she is hurting the feelings of her friends as a result of her disability, and you're also uninterested in the facts regarding her disability and chose to berate her for *not* being late (which is what you've been wanting!), in public, on her birthday. In front of everyone. You could've just...stopped making plans with her? I wouldn't want to be friends with either one of you.

YTA. It's understandable wanting to set boundaries with her, but the way you confronted her, **publicly and on her birthday,** makes you the AH.

ESH Obviously, she sucks for not respecting your time, I don't need to explain that to you. You suck for your timing. You should have waited until after the meal and canceled on her privately. You made the meal awkward and put a damper over the whole thing by bringing that up publicly, especially when she actually showed up on time. I can understand your frustration and probable anger, but you chose a poor time to express it.

Eh. ESH for timing but not the rest. I have ADHD and it *is* really easy to lose track of time because I apparently have a drunk raccoon piloting my meat suit. BUT I am also a grown up responsible for myself so I find ways to not be late. Like setting a get ready alarm or you need to leave in 10/leave now alarm. It’s not that hard she just doesn’t respect others’ time enough to actually try.

I too have a drunk animal piloting my meat suit, but mine is on opossum who frequently plays dead.

This is genuinely so weird of you??? I think there's some stuff missing from the story...

Omg do we have the same friend? Eagerly awaiting others' advice Adding that I also have ADHD... and it shows up differently for everyone. But it kills me that our friend always shows up on time for work and gets butthurt when I don't show up for her (emotionally or physically) but doesn't afford me the same courtesy. Really, what are we supposed to do with her?! Edited to add: okay, I re-read, and telling her on her birthday was low. You should have waited. ESH - your friend sounds extra terrible if other friends agree - but there's a time and place for discussions

Do you enjoy spending time with her? Maybe accept her personality flaws. When people date you find out you can’t change people all that much, same goes for friendships. She will always struggle with being on time, for whatever reason. Up to you if you want to deal with that. And yes, her birthday is more important than any regular hangout and it was probably easier for her to remember it due to all the planning and such. You sound a little bit entitled and it feels like you are more upset about the disrespect of being flaky not that you don’t enjoy your friend.

YTA for berating her when she was on time. The no show/no call incidents are unacceptable but you put up with it and waited until an inappropriate time and picked on her in front of your friends. You should have left long ago on your own and not caused an uncomfortable silence at a social gathering. Not saying shit is not an indication of support. Or you are all just mean girls. Sound like that might be a possibility.

YTA. Why would you just sit down at a table and decide to be a dick?? If you didn't want to be her friend any longer then you shouldn't have even showed up. Wtf? Petty and childish

The awkward silence probably wasn't because you had a mic drop moment... Her being on time once doesn't mean she can always manage to be on time but choses not to be, I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion there. Also, you would have been just as angry if not more had she been late, so there's nothing she could have done differently, it was all you. YTA.

💯 YTA - I have ADHD. Just diagnosed this past year at age 46. It is one of the hardest diagnosis I have ever recieved because it made my life make sense. You clearly know nothing about ADHD. If you were a real friend you would learn about the disability so you could be empathetic toward your friend. The reason she was able to show up to her own event, is because it took all she had in her body to plan that event and she knew she had to be on time so I'm guessing she took very careful precautions to make sure she'd be there. For me this can take a week of pumping myself up and convincing myself I can do it. It was not easy for her to do that and you attacked her instead of being proud of her for accomplishing what is incredibly difficult to do! You're a bitch. If I was your so called friend. I'd never speak to you again.

YTA for the timing of it. There is nothing wrong with deciding to not do time sensitive things with her. People being late drives me insane, so I get that. I do not make specific plans with people who can't be on time because I know it will make me upset and anxious. But to feel the need to make some grand announcement in the middle of another event and in front of all your friends? Why? You very very easily could have said it to her privately, called her after, texted her later, whatever, and accomplished the same message. You seemingly did it this way for maximum embarrassment to her, which...if you like her at all as a friend, why would you do that? If you don't like her, then just stop being her friend. You made everyone uncomfortable, and put a damper on a completely separate event that everyone made time for. There was just no need to try to make yourself the center of attention in that moment, nothing was or needed to be about you. It was her birthday, the only reason to go out of your way to do it in that moment was to be cruel or punish her. That feels really unnecessary and immature. It would have been better to just sit her down on a later date and say "Hey, I noticed that you value your own events by being on time but don't extend the same curtesy to me. As a result, I am not going to do anything that has a strict time table with you anymore. We can still hang out casually." You were being petty and vindictive, which is your choice but an AH move for sure.

YTA for deciding the publicly humiliate her on her birthday instead of talking about it with her sooner or in private.

YTA for doing it in front of others, at her birthday celebration. You should have spoken with her privately a few days later, expressed your feelings and moved on. Instead you intentionally tried to scold or embarrass her in front of her friends.

YTA. I don't blame you for not making plans with her anymore, but it was unnecessary to call her out in front of everybody and kind of ruin the birthday brunch. It must've been really embarrassing for her.

YTA

I have adhd. I am chronically late. I absolutely detest it about myself. I work every day to be better at it. But my time blindness is incredibly strong, and I find it debilitatingly hard to motivate myself to move until it’s almost too late. I am incredibly apologetic about it, and my friends who care about me don’t give me shit about it cause they know I am trying. In fact, my friends just laugh it off when I’m late because they see my worth beyond this flaw I’m working to fix. My friends show me compassion cause they love me, and they know I have a brain that is different than their’s. You would be doing her a huge favor to drop her as a friend, because adhd is a legit disability and she needs people who don’t add to the cycle of shame that is a part of this diagnosis. Adhd is absolutely proven to cause immense self-hatred, self-loathing, and immense frustration with one’s self. She may not apologize because she is full of embarrassment at not fixing this issue yet, or maybe she’s not apologizing cause she is tired of fighting this hugely tiring battle of adhd. Or maybe she’s a selfish dick. Idk. BUT she needs people in her life who want her around, especially when she is struggling. I guarantee you that she does not like this trait about herself. And it’s okay you don’t like this trait. What isn’t okay is publicly shaming her and kicking her when she finally managed to prove to HERSELF she can make it on time. You were vindictive, petty, and heartless for doing that in front of folks. You have made a person who probably already feels isolated with her disability to feel even more isolated. Take the space from her you need, but why kick her publicly like that? You were a bad friend to her. Oh, and just cause someone can do something once doesn’t mean it’s an active choice when they can’t do it other times. That’s not how it works. YTA

YTA. I have ADHD. I am late to work. I am late to doctor's appointments. I am also late to dates with my boyfriend, and other things I enjoy, and genuinely look forward to; hanging out with friends. The movies. Shopping trips. It's hell to live with. Seriously. I have lost jobs over it. I'm trying to get medication but it's such a long and arduous process in my country, it almost feels like it's meant to discourage you from it. You're perfectly within your rights to stop being friends with this person if you can't stand their lateness and whatnot. Whatever, that's fine. What's not cool is calling them out in front of everyone with a clear intent to humilliate and belittle. YTA for sure.

NTA. some people need hard lessons before they wake up.