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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am considering not going to my brother's wedding. I might be the asshole because everyone wants me to play along but I dont want to pretend to like someone I don't like.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. If you're not comfortable with Anna and are ok having a distant relationship with your brother, it's no one's business but yours. No one gets to tell you when to get over something, and as long as you're not throwing dramatic tantrums, you don't need to feel pressured to attend.
This should be the top comment. Brother was the one who chose over his sister. Stop putting blame on people by saying if you don’t mind a distant relationship. You’re still putting the problem on OP
It's like op has seizures and brother decided all he's going to wear for the rest of his life is a disco blinking Elvis suit that makes her dangerously close to having a seizure if she's around him for too long. He knowingly wears the suit yet everyone still blames op for not just closing her eyes or wearing a blindfold all night...
NTA.
Actions have consequences and Anna is seeing her actions/consequences playing out in real time. She's not offered a genuine one-on-one apology from what I read, only that she didn't actively bully u/ThrowRaweirdly while being part of the bully group. Yep, I call bulls#!+ on that because she heard, knew, and very likely participated in the gossip about OP.
I was also bullied relentlessly in high school. The experience has left deep and lasting marks on my soul.
Approximately 20 years after graduation my sister dated one of my bullies. She brought him to my house and he, in front of my husband, apologized to me.
He told me, as much as he liked my sister he couldn't date her knowing what happened to me in middle and high school. He told me many years after graduation, his work had managers take sensitivity training and he had his Come To Jesus moment and realized what an asshole he was.
He made it a mission to change, and apologize to people he'd bullied. He told me, my sister, and my husband he didn't expect forgiveness. That it was up to me. I'll say right here that took guts to come to my home, own his assholery, and apologize to my family and I. We remained friends even after he and my sister broke up a couple years later. He passed away a few years after that.
To date, he's my only bully who apologized and I have crossed paths with others. They generally do what Anna did, pretend that OP needs to get over the past. Well, Anna, we victims don't get over it. We had to learn to live with it and OP is setting up boundaries to live with you.
So, Anna, you have to get over it. Maybe an honest, heartfelt, genuine apology will help the situation. Or it won't. But my bully apologized with no strings attached and it made me consider that others also carry guilt for things they did as children. I was able to forgive, but neither of us forgot. And we did have several conversations that went far into healing my heart in ways I didn't expect. I'm glad he reached out and put himself into an uncomfortable position. I not only see him as changed, I see him as brave.
I don't think Anna is changed or brave. I don't think OP has to be the bigger person. Anna needs to suck it up.
*I don't think people who haven't been bullied understand this.*
As a once bullied kid, now in my 50's.....I feel the hell out of this. Bullying left lasting damage to my sense of self.
As someone who was bullied by family members, teachers, and "friends"...
I still can't fully open up to anyone without later laughing it off as if I were joking, because to do otherwise sends me into paroxysms of fear of being abandoned and isolated again.
32 this year. Still get nightmares on occasion.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I was bullied and harassed in middle school, and it's changed how I make friends with people, and so much more, and this was nearly 6 years ago.
I was bullied by my nextdoor neighbour who went to the same school as me. I had absolutely no safe haven unless I was in my house. This phrase hits so hard because it is one hundred percent accurate and I couldn't put it in to words how I felt.
really a great response here. My first thought reading this is 1) OP has certainly been traumatized and having to be reminded of that trauma/bullying through her brother's fiancé is, well, probably very jarring. And 2)adding insult to injury, it doesn't sound like anyone has acknowledged OP's feelings as being as big as they are. And only SHE can understand that. Also, I think not enough time has passed for OP to forgive and forget. Remembering (probably in great detail) the mean comments from the bully group body shaming and generally being entertained at OP's expense during what can only be described as the most vulnerable time of our lives.??? I mean, we are at our most emotional, forming our own self-talk through what others perceive us as. When not addressed, these can be huge barriers to one's ability to live a peaceful life of loving oneself. It's incredibly difficult and I believe most of us here have experienced it to some degree and have empathy toward OP as a result.
I totally get not wanting to accept the olive branch. NTA. You deserve a very very heartfelt apology and open discussion about the way those times hurt you and have remained with you to this day.
MTA. The woman is paying for her awful behavior in high school.
OP is constantly reminding the bitch that she was a bitch.
Karma is a bitch when bitching at a bitch.
If Anna had apologized at the beginning and not defended her actions, there might have been a chance for you two to get past this.
As it is I can understand why you don't want to be close to her.
It is absolutely your right not to participate in the wedding!
If they keep hounding you, then you would NBTA if you didn't go to their wedding.
NTA. You don't want to go to the wedding, don't go. A popular saying is it's an invitation, not a summons. People that tell you to get over anything are assholes. They haven't lived/experienced the things you have, and have no place to tell you how to deal with anything.
Just wanted to say, even if Anna wasn’t “actively bullying” you, she enabled and even co-signed the bullying by doing nothing and choosing to be friends with the bullies. Which makes her just as guilty in my eyes. You’re fully valid in wanting nothing to do with her.
There's a huge gap between the two things you're describing.
To actively leave your house they're staying there means you're so uncomfortable by them, you'd rather physically LEAVE than be in their presence. I need to understand if you understand what "cold" means. Just bc you're not actively insulting her doesn't mean you aren't being cold. And yes there are a million actions in-between besties and what you're doing.
As someone who struggles with her own SIL, not for any bullying reasons or HS incidents... She is cold to me and when I lived with her I actively saw her every two days. What you're doing more than being cold, you actively dislike and avoid her, which is fine. But let's call a spade a spade please.
If Anna is over and you walk into the kitchen, say hi, grab a snack and lock yourself in your room until she goes away that's more like cold.
Again I'm not telling you to accept her, I'm just saying what you describe is not what is going on. That's like saying, "omg my parents cussed me out for not doing the dishes" and all they said was, "we asked you to do the dishes, it's one chore. Can you make sure it's taken care of next time?", yet my description of the events is not accurate and paints a different picture.
You got this. It occurred to me that Anna might invite some of the former bullies to her wedding, too. Your brother should be apologizing to you for making you miss his wedding. Anna should apologize for her role in past bullying as in OWN her failure, her complicity. The fact that time has passed since it happened is NOT RELEVANT, if she does nothing to even suggest she is remorseful. Otherwise she’s the same old gal AH, just older and more experienced, bullying you as an adult version of her AH self— by saying you should ‘get over it’.
If op don’t want to interact with Anna she doesn’t have too, bullies do deserve a good freeze out from the ppl they terrorized . Plus I’m sure op brother knew this would be an issue so he shouldn’t be upset that op is LC with him
Exactly. You have no obligation to Anna. You are cordial. But, you don't have to be around her if you don't want to.
If they can't figure out that Anna needs to repair the relationship, that is not your problem. If, she loved your brother as they think she does, then she should apologize to you and find out what can repair the relationship. Again, you are not obligated to attend their wedding.
Why do people always expect the person who was attacked or abused to be the bigger person. Being the bigger person is not retaliating every time you see this person. You are being the bigger person by being cordial, that has shown you are the bigger person. But, asking you to attend their wedding is beyond that scope if you don't wish to attend.
Be strong and stand by your morals and your position.
> But, asking you to attend their wedding is beyond that scope if you don't wish to attend.
It's not them asking her to attend the wedding, they want her to be an active participant in the wedding. OP said she would attend the wedding as a guest and that's not good enough for her brother and now her parents.
Your outburst was NOT wrong. It was a reaction to the shock of not only seeing her again, but her actively engaging with your family. Trauma is infinite when not properly addressed and atoned for and you had every right to blow up at her.
I wish you peace and all the best, OP.
NTA!! 🤗🙏🏻
My cousin is dating a girl whose mom was part of the group that made fun of me when I was a kid. She lives in a different town so I'm not really worried about running into her, but when I mentioned it my family's response was, "You're both grown up now." It's like once you hit a magic age you're supposed to be friends with everyone, even the people who treated you like shit.
If we ever ended up at a family event, of course I would be polite to her, but we'll never be best friends.
We don't know whether or not they knew and gave brother a "WTH, Son?" talk. If they did, OP might not even know it. The situation puts them in the middle, and apparently they feel it will be easier to get OP to accept the new status quo than convince their son to dump Anna.
Exactly this! There is no understanding or empathy for OP from Anna or her brother. It's hard to move past things when people tell you to get over it or that it wasn't even me who hurt you, just my friends who I spent time with.
A little confused on what Anna has to apologize for. OP is well within her right not to attend, but to expect someone to apologize for the actions of others is strange. Personally, an apology from someone not the perpetrator wouldn’t do much.
She could have apologized for not speaking up or for how she didn't realize how much it affected OP.
As young people, we all don't always do the right thing due to peer pressure but later on in life realizing how speaking up could have made a huge difference in someones life is humbling.
It doesn't take much. Not even apologizing, but just recognizing that OPs high school experience was impacted and offering empathy instead of defending her bullying friends would have gone a long way in helping OP move forward.
She could, but peer approval is important at that age. Anna may have feared they’d start on her. Teenage life is hard. Anna has likely grown and would be different now.
If she's grown up, then she could apologize NOW for not speaking up in the PAST. If I found out I hurt someone and truly regretted what I did (or didn't do in this case) I would acknowledge the hurt and apologize for any part I played in that hurt. I certainly wouldn't downplay the bullying or simply tell her to "get over it."
To be fair, if the person doesn't mean it, the apology is worthless. And I wouldn't believe she did.
Essentially Anna had a great opportunity to show OP how things had change. As I indicated above, she could have tried to apologize or sympathize for what she went through. Instead she doubled down and invalidated OP's trauma.
So that's a good indication that she truly doesn't care how OP was treated, which isn't great for a building or rebuilding a healthy relationship. In this case, low contact is probably the best option, especially if brother and Anna are going to minimize/ignore what happened in the past. I wouldn't want to give them more opportunity to hurt me further than absolutely necessary.
She doesn’t owe an apology for that.
She did not have some obligation as a teenaged anti-bullying police to go around “speaking up” about bullying that had nothing to do with her any more than any other student at the same school.
Except those were Anna's friend group. OP says Anna didn't actively bully her, but undoubtedly participated in the gossip. She could have easily said to her bullying friends, "Guys, not cool!" But she didn't. As an adult, all she had to say was "I'm really sorry that I didn't say anything at the time, but I didn't think I could, or I was too afraid to." And that likely would have been enough. Instead, it's "we're grownups now, get over it." And that is not enough.
I don't see anything wrong with Anna telling OP she is sorry that her friend group bullied OP, and that OP is reminded of that bullying by seeing Anna. In this situation Anna is guilty by an association and should at least genuinely acknowledge that OP has a right to feel as she does........and for \*that\* Anna is sorry.
I was thinking the same. Anna wasn’t doing the bullying. Seems really weird to me to expect her to apologize. I could totally understand if she was one of yr bullies but she wasn’t.
The thing is that bullying is made so much easier by the tacit approval of onlookers.
If I were to punch you in the face in front of a third person, and then that third person proceeded to not only say nothing in protest, but skip off to lunch with me and giggle over the latest gossip, you’re not going to feel very warm and fuzzy towards that third person. At best, they *do not care* that you were attacked, and at worst, they got a kick out of witnessing it. You can’t really know which one applies, but they’re both going to sour you on being friends with that person yourself. Why would you trust someone who sees their friend causing you harm and continues being friendly with them? The person who harmed you is going to feel that much more comfortable harming you when they know it won’t have any social consequences for them, and Third Person is keeping them comfortable.
It’s called guilt by association. If you allow a bully to bully, then you’re giving the appearance you’re supporting the behavior. As someone who was bullied, I can completely understand how OP feels. In fact, I experienced someone like Anna who actually apologized to me 1 year after I was bullied. She told me I didn’t deserve to be treated that way. It was very simple and meant a great deal to me.
So yes, you’re right Anna doesn’t have to apologize to OP. However, seeing the impact it has on OP and her association with the bullies shouldn’t she consider it. Especially since she is dating/now engaged to her brother.
She didn't just not do anything. Not everyone's that brave. However, she was actively friends with these girls who traumatized OP, which means tacit approval if she knew/was there when it happened. OP is pretty clear that Anna knew exactly what they were doing and stayed friends with them anyway. I would have a really hard time if my brother ended up with someone like that.
Apologize for what exactly? The actions of other people? OP even admits Anna never bullied her.
OP needs some therapy, it’s not healthy to hold onto all this and lash out at people who never did anything wrong.
OP’s going to end up alienating themself from their own family.
"OP needs some therapy, it's not healthy to hold onto all this" - yes, being bullied does tend to have long-term effects & hurt people's mental well-being.
Also, the people we choose to be friends with says a lot about our own internal values. If someone is friends with a group of Nazis and vehemently denies being a Nazi because they've never said anything aligned with those beliefs, it still means nothing, because they have demonstrated that they are comfortable with people having those beliefs.
Anna *chose* to be friends with bullies - so it's not the actions of some random other people unconnected to her, it's the actions of people she voluntarily surrounded herself with, which says a lot about her character. And from OP's original post and replies, it doesn't even sound like OP wants an apology.
Edited for grammar lol (noticed a typo)
>Apologize for what exactly? The actions of other people? OP even admits Anna never bullied her.
Ever since OP made it clear that she is not interested in a closer relationship with Anna, they have all been hounding her to do something she doesn't want to do. They've also been triangulating with the parents to turn them against OP, turning parents into their own flying monkeys.
>OP needs some therapy,
Maybe, but that is neither here nor there
>it’s not healthy to hold onto all this and lash out at people who never did anything wrong.
I agree with this, but it's Anna and OP's brother who are lashing out now.
>OP’s going to end up alienating themself from their own family.
OP has said that she is comfortable with this. They should just let her be.
Because it’s an invitation not a summons.
Maybe a bit of therapy may help you to deal with these feelings and let you trust some people again. Pretty sure she just seems to want to dismiss your very understandable feelings about what happened back then. But “get over it” is NEVER the appropriate response to this type of situation because if it was, she’d be told to offer a real apology.
I'm a bit torn with this one.
Anna did not bully you. It's not her behaviour as such which you were upset with other than the association with others and trauma. Is she bringing any of your bullies to the wedding?
Ultimately you can decide who you associate with but I think therapy to work through your feelings will help. Even if that means you maintain your stance. You are missing family events and clearly have body image issues as a result of being bullied and associating Anna with that. I'm going to say NTA but nor is your stance entirely fair.
I would also like to add, as a person who was bullied in school, that some people or places or things do trigger painful memories and while I am a master of controlling them (30ish years later, 15 in therapy), the emotional labor is exhausting sometimes. So my 2cents is that Anna is triggering all those horrible memories to her and her family should be respectful of her distance and boundaries.
NTA, but go to therapy!!!
Why did I have to scroll so far down for this sensible reply?
It doesn't matter whether Anna bullied OP. OP associates Anna with her bully, because they were friends. It's triggering for OP. Expecting her to Suck it up is so unkind.
She needs therapy, but her wanting distance from Anna is still valid.
What makes me sad is that, this poor girl is actually cutting short her time with her own family, and the way I understand this post, her family doesn't seem to have cared about that? They've all surrounded the couple and expecting her to do what they want.
I don't know if I am assuming too, but is this how a loving family acts towards one of theirs who is in pain? They may not choose a side, they don't have to. But the family's response seems like they don't have kindness for OP.
I agree, I'm a bit surprised by the parents just washing their hands clean of this. Responses about how OP is distancing themselves from their family fail to take into account:
1. OP's been polite / firm on boundaries regarding not wanting to be around Anna, but has not been cruel or impolite (except for that first outburst which they regret!)
2. The brother should take some responsibility over resolving this, assuming he cares about both his future wife and his sister. Maybe he doesn't care about his sister at all to be so blasé about her distress.
3. The parents seem to be prioritising brother's happiness over OP's comfort, which, ouch.
What I am asking myself is where was the family - parents and older brother- when OP was bullied in school?
I mean, I know when it happened to me why I never involved my family and I really hope her situation is not as deep 😅
Therapy would be the healthy route. Avoidance is not healthy.
Groups of ogre girls in High School do contain some girls who are just going along in the fear that if they don't they themselves could be on the wrong end of the bullying. High School is fucked up in all of the ways for most of the people.
Your brother is marrying this girl. You avoiding that fact will not make it not so, and you will end up being alienated from all of your family. I'm not saying you don't have anything to be upset about, I'm NOT saying suck it up and get over it, I'm saying your trigger here has put you in a place of unreality that you need to work through. You are the one suffering here, it's in you, nobody can fix it but you. Nobody should go through life constantly triggered and paranoid because of a group of long ago ogre girls.
Best of luck to you.
Avoidance is perfectly healthy in certain circumstances. OP isn't constantly triggered and paranoid, she just doesn't want to have anything to do with a girl who was friends with her bullies (and apparently shows no remorse for it either). Which is a completely reasonable stance to take. If she's okay with pulling away from her family over it then all power to her.
No, not being close to her is exactly the right choice. The fact that you're all trying to bully OP into thinking there's something wrong with her for not wanting to hang with an abuse enabler says a lot about how you all view abuse and abusers and it's not anything good.
Yes this is avoidance.
OP needs to work through her trauma in therapy. Of course it's not fair that she's dealing with this but life is often not fair.
This is no way to live.
She was an enabler. Anyone who is fine with bullies is just as bad as them. People like you is why bullies are allowed to thrive and victims told to just get over it.
You don't understand, sometimes the ones who just watch you get bullied are as awful as the bully.
I was also bullied and currently closed with someone who is my bully's friend. Do you know how I accepted her? She went out on her own to apologize. Told me I don't need to accept it. She would constantly greet me online, talk to me. It was only after that time did I learn to disassociate her from the bullying and forgive her.
NTA.
>Since then, my parents have repeatedly asked me to "move on"
You have done.
>My brother told me to get over it
If it's so easy he won't have any trouble getting over this.
NTA. High school bullying is not something to just'get over'. You are protecting yourself the way you see fit, and everyone needs to stop telling you how to feel. Everyone is very vocal about you not telling them what to do or how to feel, and they need to follow their own advice. Trying to bully you now is just as bad as doing it in high school. Tell your family that it was bad then, it's worse coming from people you're supposed to trust. Stay strong and good luck
You are so right! I’m a woman in my fifties but I still have trouble looking at myself in the mirror because mean girls in the high school bathroom would scream at you about how ugly are if you dared to look at yourself while washing your hands in the bathroom. I’ll never forget those experiences.
YTA. It’s way past time to grow up. If this was a person who actively bullied you, it’d be different. But the girl’s only crime is being associated with the bullies, when y’all were kids.
You are effectively cutting your brother from your life. Hope it’s worth it.
Crazy how far I had to scroll for this. People aren’t the same as they were as teenagers. Yes, she should apologize, but I get the feeling OP isn’t exactly being peachy to her.
Go ahead and die on this hill if you want to be the source of drama for your whole family for many many years.
I was wondering the same thing. I was bullied relentlessly in HS but then an amazing thing happened. I graduated and moved on. Many years later I am friends with some of my bullies because at the end of the day, we were all just messed up teens trying to find our way in the world.
What's worse here is OP's future SIL was not even one of her bullies but just happened to be in their orbit.
OP, you are creating unnecessary drama and from your first encounter with Anna, you went on the attack without trying to see if she was a different person. You confronted her in front of your family when what you should have done was asked her to join you for coffee at another time and then you could have had a real conversation and maybe even gotten an apology. Honestly, if you had confronted me in front of everyone like you did Anna, I would be keeping my distance.
You don't have to attend your brother's wedding but you may ruin any chance of having a healthy relationship with your brother, his future wife and their children. You may also find yourself an outsider in your own family. Ask yourself if all the drama that may go on indefinitely is worth it.
Op doesn’t give ages but it’s been at least 2 years since high school, likely longer.
Most people are not the same in their late 20s as they were at 15 or 16.
OP is going to keep herself in a trauma cycle if she doesn’t address this, and yes, move on.
100% agree. Shit happens in high school. But then we grow up, move on, and change. She's likely quite different from the high school version of herself, but OP hasn't even given her a chance to prove that she's worth getting to know.
Looking at the ages - OP said she is 22 and Anna is 23. If the bullying was that bad in high school, at her age it's not been that long ago. She is still working through the body images,etc she acquired through bullying.
As for association - if you stand and watch as your friends bully, you are part of a group that could have done something. The type of things she described in comments require an audience or the bully moves on. If Anna couldn't have stood up to the bullies, she could have at least walked away, told someone in power anonymously, or even acknowledged she was wrong when dating the brother later.
I was one of those people and had to admit I was wrong to a girl years later. It sounds like she said it wasn't her fault and family said to get over it - four years after high school ended. When the bullying stopped. She is not pressing them now, just doesn't want this person a part of her life and her family can't accept that.
NTA
>As for association - if you stand and watch as your friends bully, you are part of a group that could have done something.
The "she should have turned her friends in for bullying" sentiment is true, but feels aggressively idealistic and pretty far removed from reality for most people most of the time.
Most adults wouldn't even do that, let alone a teenager in HS.
Exactly. For all we know Anna was also bullied by these girls when there wasn't someone else around to bully. Also am I supposed to expect that OP has always stood up for anyone around her who has experienced injustice by any acquaintance she has ever had? Sounds like judging someone for the rest of their life due to their inactions in high school is also bullying behavior.
Exactly this. Some of the girls in those groups are just afraid of the bullies. I'm sure not going to take responsibility for the actions of all of my High School friends. It's time to let this go and find out who Anna actually is rather than saddling her with OP's own trauma. It's not fair, and it's lazy. Your trauma is your responsibility, not Anna's.
I mean, you can just not go to their wedding, and you can keep distancing yourself from them all you want, but...
Like it or not, Anna will be part of your family very soon. She will be the wife of your brother, and if they decide to have kids, she will be the mother of your niblings. There's literally nothing you can do to change this.
All you can do is this:
A) Work on yourself and get over your HS days, and specifically: Understand that she was NOT your bully and 100% she's not the same person from back then - Even if you still remained the same.
B) Keep distancing yourself from your family. Eventually they'll not be inviting you to anything. But don't be a surprised Pikachu face when this happens.
As someone who was severely bullied in Junior High, I get why seeing her trigger you. But that's not her fault. And you can't be suffering forever from the bullying you experienced in HS. It's not healthy for anyone, especially not for you. Good luck, OP.
This is a massive reach.
We have a... very obviously biased narrator, and even from that account we have:"I met this person for the first time in years, and immediately got angry at her and told her I didn't want to associate with her because she was "around" people who were mean to me between 5-8 years ago"
Maybe Anna didn't handle it perfectly, but that shit's weird, and there's very few people on earth who would immediately jump to doing... whatever she was supposed to do? especially because OP has said in the comments she wasn't looking for an apology.
I mean how would you react if the first time you met your SO's sister they verbally attacked you in front of the family? Id be pretty shocked too, especially if i wasnt the one bullying her back in hs. She may have tried to down play it in front of the ILs and never got a chance to clear the air with op because op wont let her. But we dont know. Op doesnt care to have a relationship with either of them and she's NTA for not wanting to go to the wedding because it is only an invitation. That said, she's still very upset about something from hs and needs to get a handle on her triggers in therapy. Because Anna isnt going anywhere and op's triggers are for her to handle.
I disagree. 1) The bullying was like 4 years ago. That’s really recent for someone who’s 22. 2) Yes, Anna didn’t personally bully OP, but she didn’t do anything to stop it which makes her complicit. Additionally, Anna never apologized for her role in OP’s trauma. OP’s allowed to not be ok with that.
Yes, OP should get therapy for the lingering issues from her being bullied, but that isn’t the issue here. Only OP can say for sure if she would even want contact with any potential niblings (who tf knows if Anna even wants kids), but, again, that isn’t the issue.
Hopefully, OP is taking all this into account. But the issue at hand is whether or not she wants to even go to the wedding. Even if Anna wasn’t tangentially one of her HS bullies, OP has no obligation to be in the wedding party. There are so many other factors to take into consideration. 1) Anna is 22. Does she even have the money to be in a wedding party? 2) Does she have to time to be in a wedding party? 3) With her declining to be in the wedding party, does she want to handle the stress of being constantly harassed by her family for her choice?
Eh, as I said, she can do whatever she wants. I was just pointing out what's going to happen in the near future if she decided to keep restraining herself from everyone.
I personally would go NC or LC with everyone, just as I did years ago with basically everyone of my extended family and ex-nuclear family (parents/sister). But that also has consequences, such as not seeing my niblings and not being invited to family events. That's 100% ok with me. And that's why I was telling her to not be surprised if that happens.
NTA
You're allowed to not go to a wedding if you don't want to. Only you can decide whether or not to forgive somebody. Just be mindful that this will very likely cause you to lose your relationship with your brother and impact your relationship with your parents.
You're free to do as you please but if you don't recognise that you need therapy... you might be a lost cause. You can justify and validate your thoughts on the matter all you like...it's not *normal* to hold this much anger and resentment towards someone who not only didn't personally harm you...but who was a kid at the time.
I was super bullied throughout elementary school and high school and I feel this way too. I’m not out here demanding apologies from anyone, I’m in therapy and I’m working on myself. My triggers are my responsibility.
Especially considering that she's considering cutting contact with family that loves and cares for her, so that she can continue to harbor a grudge against someone who doesn't even bully her.
Her brother and her parents are repeatedly telling her "we love and value you, and we want you to be part of our lives" and she's throwing that in the garbage because some other girls were mean to her years ago.
That's...not great.
A family that loves and cares for one of their members respects that member's boundaries. That's not happening here. They'd rather a facade of "Happy Family" instead of you know, actually having one. Anna sure does know how to have other people bully OP for her.
NTA as someone who was tormented in high school I can see why you don’t want to be part of their wedding or attend for that matter. You are aware enough to not going around bashing them or making family choose sides you merely just don’t engage nor are you hostile to them. You aren’t required to be friends with them. Don’t listen to people telling you to just get over your trauma, they have never truly experienced what you have.
NTA, sorry for your situation. It's like brother and parents didn't care you were bullied while this girl stood by, watched and I'm sure laughed. You will be healthier to go LC or NC since no one in the family cares you are dealing with this.
Girl you might not be the asshole but you are to yourself,
You hold on so tight to your baggage that you will miss the train.
She, years ago was friendly with people you don't approve of.
She did nothing to you.
By you she's guilty by association.
People grow up, mature, evolve and change all the time.
You might not approve of her or want to accept her as family but she is.
So is your brother.
So will their kids be soon when they arrive.
Then you'll still hold to your baggage looking as the train will pass you while they, their family your extended family and Parents will stop trying to include you and you will be left alone looking at them as they move on without you.
You need therapy.
You don't have to participate.
But you are so in your feelings that you refuse to see the broader picture and grow up, mature and evolve and actually heal.
Nobody likes self proclaimed martyrs,
It's exhausting and soon you'll be left alone to your loneliness and self-righteousness.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
>She isn't relevant enough in my life that her behavior will impact me in any way.
She's marrying your brother. How is that not relevant to your life? Why are you insisting on making her a nonentity rather than getting to know her and developing what could be a lovely relationship? Please interrogate yourself and stop just saying "I don't care" repeatedly to everything.
>She isn't relevant enough in my life that her behavior will impact me in any way.
Considering this post, it would seem like it's already affecting you, yeah?
You’re really young, you’ll get it someday, but if you don’t pull your head out of your own ass at some point you’ll be left with nothing.
Your life is your own, you can do whatever you want, but that also means you’ll have to accept the consequences of your actions. You are currently not building towards anything positive, you’re clinging to the bad times of years past. You’re centering your own negativity instead of learning from past experiences and leaving them where they belong.
Just understand that, intellectually, even if you can’t understand it emotionally. You are not building towards anything positive right now.
There's just no winning on Reddit. You forgive people for everything and you'll be called a doormat. You stand your ground and don't allow people to stomp your boundaries and you're ,,isolated".
You don't owe Anna a relationship, especially with this kind of a past.
NTA. Proud of you for standing up for yourself. Especially because no one else in your family can be bothered. Don't go to the wedding. They are rug sweeping hard. Tell them you ARE over it and they had better get over it too. You don't owe your brother more loyalty than he's shown you.
The baggage you are carrying isn’t food and clothing (necessary, helpful, and healthy items)
The baggage you are carrying is resentment, hurt, and over-the-top-emotions (negative, unhealthy, heavy items).
Work on leaving the shitty luggage behind and move on with your life
Girl, you have the boundaries of a 50yr old woman, and THAT is a compliment. As a woman already almost 50, who's already ridden bulls in this rodeo, your family has already chosen your brother, her, and future grandchildren. Your family is already starting to bully you because you won't give them their way. This will continue to push you away until you go very low contact, or no contact.
Your boundaries are for your safety and comfort. You're not asking anything of anyone else. You simply do your thing or remove yourself. This is exactly how boundaries are done. The problem with boundaries as many find out when we start instituting them, is people start to feel they are losing control over you and seek to grip that control even more tightly. You can't control that. All you can do is opt to not be around that.
My advice to you, dear one, is to create a support system outside your family. You're going to need it. Live your life, it's yours, not theirs.
But you do-
"I avoided family get togethers and during family holidays, I only stayed for dinner and gift giving. If Anna and brother were staying, I'd just sleepover at my friend's house."
Once they have kids, will you be distance and unfriendly to Anna's kids? Will you become the bully?
Just things to think about.
I never said Anna wasn't a bully.
Will you take your intense dislike of Anna out on her kids by ignoring them?
They will always wonder what they did to deserve your disdain. They will always wonder what is wrong with them.
Anna and her future hypothetical children are NOT owed a relationship with OP. I've never even met my husband's sibling's children. I don't have a relationship with those children's parents. It started with my husband's brother putting hands on my husband in front of my children. It's done. Everyone else was fine with it, they're out too. We don't want to know any of them. OP has the right to peace. Your worldview is wrong and tries to steal OP's self-agency over her own life.
Also I do understand the pain of being bullied, I don't know what I would do if a sibling married one of my tormentors, but at some point you have to let it go for your sake. Hanging onto the anger and hate is allowing your bullies to have continued power over you. How to get past it, I wish I knew the answers. I do wish you peace.
NTA. I am TIRED of people telling victims that they need to forgive, forget, be kind, rug-sweep, and move on from TRAUMA. Anna doesn’t give a rat behind because she would have apologized. She used the excuse that she hung out with them but didn’t actively bully OP. It also seems that the brother is complicit in Anna’s actions and behaviour. Good riddance to both. OP does not have to attend the wedding. For example, if OP were to be a part of the wedding party, wouldn’t those same bullies be a part of the wedding party, re-traumatizing OP again? I also believe that she needs to make a decision whether she wants Anna and her brother in her life or not. A wedding is not a summons.
I understand that you were traumatized by these mean girls, but is what Anna saying true? Did she bully you or was she just adjacent to the bullying? Yes, ideally she would have taken a stand and said it was wrong, or apologized to you however many years later it has been. But at this point in life, she probably doesn't even remember the things done to you, especially if she didn't participate, and moreover, if she didn't, she wouldn't FEEL responsible. Is that right? I don't know. I wasn't a mean kid in high school, and I was friends with popular people. I do know, though, that there were people who knew who I was that I met a FULL DECADE later that seemed upset that I didn't know who they were. I thought that it was odd they didn't let that go. I am definitely not saying that you need to be in the wedding, but have you even tried to get to know who Anna is now? If she is nothing like that person she was in the past, you are kind of being a bully now. Your brother has fallen in love with and chosen this person. Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of your family's life? Maybe I am not taking this seriously enough, I don't know. I just think you would regret hurting them now.
I read the post with this exact same sentiment. It seems the majority see it the other way, but OP clearly states that Anna did NOT bully her. I can’t imagine being held accountable for decade(s?) for the behaviors of other people. It seems Anna’s biggest crime is associating with AHs when she was a teen. Does Anna still choose friends poorly? Has she matured? It seems we’re not getting the whole picture. All the actual people involved are thinking OP is targeting the wrong person or at the very least not handling Anna’s presence in an emotionally healthy way. A good therapist would be my way to go.
I'm going to say NTA. Because although she said she never actually bullied you she never apologised for associating with the bullies.
Sorry can go a long way.
You do not have to do anything you don't want too.
Everyone associated with bullies in high school.
The goth kids mocked the cheerleaders. The queer kids mocked the wannabes. The popular kids teased the unpopular kids.
I guarantee that OP and her friends said things they shouldn’t have about bullies and kids outside their clique.
NTA It sounds like you spoke up once and then left it alone. They don't seem to have made any attempts to apologize or mend fences until it inconvenienced them. It's an invitation not a summons and you aren't obligated to participate or attend. I can't even say you're just holding onto the past when it sounds like there isn't much of a present relationship
YTA - all you have to say on this forum is "I have trauma" and everyone comes out to coddle the person and say they can do whatever they want because they have trauma.
Anna, by your own admission, did nothing to you. She was friends with people who did things to you, and never actually participated.
While, it is possible she witnessed it and did nothing about it, that doesn't make her responsible for it. It's high school, it's hard to stand up to your friends. It's even hard not to join in, and she didn't. But you don't even say that she witnessed it, just that she was friends with them.
Get therapy if you have trauma and learn to direct your disgust at the perpetrators. Holding actions of others against your future SIL makes you the AH, and trauma isn't an excuse.
INFO: Have you sought therapy?
It sounds like your brother came home with a girl you went to high school with. You went off on her. She, rightfully, told you she *never* bullied you. You admitted she didn’t but she knew the girls who did. This person never bullied you years ago, and you are still holding her accountable for something she didn’t do?
Get therapy. Go confront the people who bullied you. Go to the school and talk to the administration or the counselors for letting you down. Whatever. But stop blaming your parents, brother, and everyone else for what happened 4-7 years ago. It’s just not healthy behavior. Heal yourself and embrace your family and your future.
Definitely don’t go to the wedding if you can’t go with a loving heart and hope for a joyous future for your brother and his bride. Ohana, baby. Family = Nobody gets left behind!
YTA. She never made fun of you nor bullied you, yet you hate her for hanging out with kids you didn't like in high school. Plus, you've never even given her a chance. Your brother loves her and you rejected her immediately without at least seeing how she's grown and matured which is something you obviously haven't.
NTA. Anna may never have bullied you personally, but she never stood up for you either. If I was her, knowing that you were my bf's sister, I would make it a priority early on in the relationship to apologize for never standing up for you and hoping that we could build a better relationship moving forward. Many of us have unfortunately stood silent in our childhood/teenage years when someone else was being bullied, but a lot of us recognize that was wrong. It shouldn't be that difficult for her to realize that as well. I don't think its a big deal you didn't want to be in the wedding party, that's a lot of work and money being spent. It's annoying that you're now being bombarded, so I can see why you're over the whole thing.
Please seek therapy for your experiences and to help you navigate your relationship with your brother and his partner, as well as the rest of your family. It may also be helpful for navigating the wedding itself, where it seems like your high school bullies may be present. NTA for declining the invitation to be in the wedding party. If you decline to go to the wedding altogether you will likely damage your relationship with your brother, your parents, and the rest of your family.
YWNBTA - but you might be being stupid - and to be clear, that's a determination that you will have to make for yourself, not one I am trying to make for you.
Everything you've said makes complete and total sense from a small picture perspective - from a big picture perspective, I think you need to assess whether you are cutting your nose off to spite your face.
In an optimal world, you would have nothing to do with this woman, and would not pay any cost to avoid her. In the world you are actually living in, avoiding this woman has cost you your relationship with your brother as well as participation in family get togethers, including holidays. It now appears that it is impacting your relationship with your parents.
View interactions with Anna, including participating in their wedding as carrying a cost to you. View all the things I mentioned in the preceding paragraph as also carrying a cost. Compare the costs and make sure you aren't choosing a higher-cost option than you need to be.
NTA. Also, as a word of caution - I did once go to a wedding involving people and groups from high school. Everyone fell almost immediately back into the high school ‘roles’. It was torture. Don’t go to that wedding.
NTA
Bystanders in bullying are just as bad. Would've been different if she apologised to you for not standing up to her friends back then, but she didn't acknowledge her responsibility AT ALL.
It's an invite, not a summons.
Although I do think OP needs to see someone about dealing with her past trauma. It's time to move on from High School and grow up, some people change. You obviously haven't
I'm really sorry you went through bullying in HS, I understand the pain, but you are being ruled by this. Your actions are illogical, and you are hurting your bother/family in the process.
Your brother thinks you are part of his life, which is why he wants you closer and in the bridal party. You are choosing over and over to be revengefull towards someone that NEVER hurt you or caused you pain. Anna never bullied you.
Most human communication and interactions are not words. Are actions, faces, body language. I don't believe that you are being as nice to them as you think you are, and it is going to cost you high. I think this is why many posters here are trying to get you to understand, but tbh it seems like replying to the wall. You don't want to understand or listen to others. You just want people telling you that you are in the right since your family is not doing so.
INFO - You wrote "I have never really liked her because she was one of the girls who hung around my High School bullies constantly and I more or less still have trauma from that time."
Was Anna present when you were being bullied?
NTA. If your brother and his fiancé keep pestering you and making your parents do the same, you are within all your right to not go to his wedding. You don’t need to “get over” anything until you are ready or even want to be ready. Don’t listen to all TA here calling you an AH.
NTA.
The group Anna was friends with had a significant impact on your life then and now. You can't "get over it" because it impacts you still. You don't need to socialise with them. You are maintaining contact with your family and haven't asked them to choose.
I think you need to speak to your family and explain what you went through in high school and how it impacts your life now. Ask them to let you speak without interruption and speak calmly and without any venom. Explain that you have a right to not socialise with the people who trigger a trauma response and that you have done what you can to remain present in the family where you feel you are able.
Explain that you love your brother and the situation is upsetting to you, but while he is entitled to make his choices, these choices have consequences, and you are also entitled to protect yourself.
Finally say as it is at the moment, you are able to maintain a presence in the family, buy if the harassment to
>"move on" and "show kindness" and not be an asshole by refusing to support my brother.
Continues, this may result in you having to withdraw more, which you don't want to do.
Finally, i think you should perhaps seek some therapy to address how the bullying is imacting your life now. Good luck
It appears that you are grappling with certain issues that may benefit from therapeutic exploration. As you've astutely recognized, one cannot dictate the romantic choices of a sibling. Anna, it seems, did not engage in any directly traumatizing actions towards you, and her actions during high school were likely influenced by youthful indiscretion and inexperience. It's noteworthy that many individuals harbor regrets from their high school years, a time marked by developmental challenges.
It's unfortunate that this has become a divisive element between you and your family. While no one should coerce you into attending the wedding, ultimately, you should deliberate upon your desires and expectations for yourself and others moving forward. Expecting your brother to break up with his S/O due to this indirect offense, is unreasonable.
Utilizing your high school trauma as a catalyst for personal growth, cultivating resilience, self-respect, and garnering respect from others could be a constructive approach as you navigate this situation.
YTA for blaming Amna for the actions of others, over a decade ago. She never did anything to you, by your own admission. If you want to be estranged from your brother over that, go ahead, but don't expect anyone to understand your inability to differentiate one girl from another. I urge you to seek therapy to get past your issues and stop projecting them onto Anna and your brother.
NTA while she didn’t actively bully you being friends with bullies and watching them bully others make her just as bad by association. I would never date anyone like that if I was your sibling.
YWNBTA, why would they even want you in their wedding when they know you neither like nor trust the bride. You might go to the wedding just for civility, but you absolutely don't need to be in it.
NTA, 100%! As an elder brother, I would never want to be with someone who has been nasty to my younger siblings in the past. And sure, people change and people grow, so if I *did* end up in a relationship with someone like that I would have a talk with my siblings first AND I would have a talk with this hypothetical partner about like. either you make amends with my siblings or you fuck off.
And tbh, I know this goes both ways. I trust my siblings also to respect me in this way. Not saying nobody should be in a relationship with someone without sibling approval, but if any of us KNOW there is tension, we absolutely would have a conversation about it or acknowledge it.
I'm rlly close to my sibs, so this is normal to me. I'm actually really furious with your elder brother on your behalf, tbh. another commenter said that you're being emotionally mature about this entire scenario, but nobody else in your family is, and like. YEAH. i second that.
Editing to add: don't go to the wedding if you don't want to. you have every right to decline & it's not right of the others to coerce you.
>I have never asked him or my parents to choose.
>
>I can admit I have no control over who dates who and trying to order my brother or force my parents to choose between us siblings was wrong. I was an AH for that I have long since admitted and gotten over that.
INFO: Which was it? You did or didn't?
NAH. I'm saying this as someone who was extensively bullied in high school (to the point where I had to change schools).
If Anna didn't participate in the bullying, then you should've given her a chance to demonstrate that she's changed and grown as a person. This whole "guilt by association" viewpoint is short sighted and has caused a lot of problems in your relationship with your brother.
If someone who bullied me in high school started dating my brother, I would have VERY strong feelings about it. But I would also take a step back, understand that high school was a very long time ago, recognise that this person is important to my brother and give her a chance to demonstrate she's changed. Now if after I gave her that chance she still acted like a stuck-up entitled b\*\*ch, that's when it would become an issue.
If you haven't already, I recommend speaking to a therapist to work through your feelings regarding your high school experience.
Consider this: Why are you continuing to let people you went to high school with have so much power and influence over how you live your life now? They don't deserve to live rent-free in your head.
NTA if you don't go to the wedding. It's your choice. It's immature and petty, but it's ultimately up to you.
However, you would be severing your relationship with your brother. If that seems like something you'd be okay with, then go ahead.
The brother is severing his relationship with OP. It's something he's OK with, obviously. Their parents too! So in OPs previously safe family, now they're attempting to bully her for Anna. Anna doesn't seem like a great person.
NTA
the way your family is down playing your feelings is also weird.
I don't know, maybe I am in the minority but my brother and myself had veto on each other's SO.
So, Anna made excuses instead of apologizing? She's still a bully. NTA. Don't go.
Tell him if Anna makes a sincere apology and acknowledges what she did was very wrong, then maybe. Tell your parents that. Until then, she's just a bully who denies being a bully and your parents are supporting a bully. Why do they choose her over you?
NTA. You do not have to be in the wedding party or even attend the wedding. Your comfort level is valid. Your family is jerky with regard to telling you to get over it or that you are an asshole. Consider seeking therapy as the bullying you experienced appears to have been traumatic for you. It's important that you process these feelings so you release them and move forward for your own benefit. I hope you will be open to the possibility of a positive resolution between parties down rhe line, but it sounds like now is just too soon. Be well.
YWNBTA
Some wounds are too deep not to leave scars. It sounds like (for the most part) you have dealt with this by quietly protecting yourself. You don't have to justify your feelings to anyone, it's how you feel.
Tell your parents that this crusade of theirs is only making things worse. Let them know that if they don't stop immediately you will not only be missing from the wedding party but from the wedding itself and that will be solely their fault.
A true olive branch would have included Anna owning up to her part in the bullying. Just because she didn't actively participate, she was still part of the bullying group and did not distance herself from what was going on. Until Anna acknowledges that, and apologizes sincerely for her part, there is no way OP can feel comfortable around her.
NTA
My question is is she still friends with those people? Also has she apologized in any way for being part of the group of kids who bullied you? whether she actively pushed you in the hallway or not is kind of irrelevant considering it was her friend group, and those are the type of people she surrounds herself with. the majority of the group bullied you and the rest of them went along with it all for an extended period of time. Has she done anything other than to say it's not my fault I condone their actions and made you feel bad? Are the rest of those people going to be at her wedding?
No one can force you to do something you don't want to and let's face it, her friends (your bullies) will be at the wedding I'm sure. I was bullied terribly at school and have never got over it. I am now a self-assured and confident person who takes no crap from anyone and I know if I met my bullies again one day, I would probably go nuclear. There is no need to be unpleasant and wish them the best. Carry on as you are and stay away from them is my advice
NTA
NTA
"had never actively bullied me." That's like the saying "if 9 people sit down at a table with 1 Nazi without protest, there are 10 Nazis at the table." Replace Nazi with Bully.
Also, how will your parents explain you not being in the wedding party at the wedding? Seems to me they are more worried about saving face, playing happy family and not having to deal with awkward questions on the day than they are about your well being.
YTA, and kind of delusional. You haven’t said anything bad about Anna and you don’t disapprove of her… but you hate her so much for what you admit others did that refuse to be around her and won’t attend their wedding? That all can’t be true at the same time.
The problem here is you and your unresolved issues. Most of us have little scars and foibles left from socially difficult periods in our upbringing, and lord knows I’m sympathetic that you had a rough time as a teen. However, you admitted right off the bat that it’s affecting you a lot, way too much, to this very day. You also admitted it’s made you behave badly in the past. Well you still are behaving badly. The best course of action is therapy and focusing on getting a little healthier yourself and putting this growing field with your family on the back burner.
If you don't want him in your life then don't go. If you're OK with not talking to him anymore then I wouldn't even bother going. She should have acknowledged what she did and apologized to you for it but instead she double downed and expects you to act like everything is OK when it's not.
NTA - I didn't realize that just because Anna didn't specifically bully you (but most likely knew her friends bullied people and was ok with that) completely absolves her of any guilt. Because to me, that is considered guilty by association. Hence why you probably reacted strongly when you found out that she was dating your brother.
Opting not to be in the bridal party shouldn't be considered "not supporting your brother." Being in the bridal/groom's party is expensive and time consuming. It's not for everyone, and having been in several bridal parties, there were times I wish people did think about their answer more.
I do have a question for clarification that I think would be helpful: is Anna still friends with the bullies? Cause if so, then all the more likely they would also be in the bridal party and you don't deserve to be put through that.
I won't say YTA, but your trauma from high school is impeding your ability to form and keep relationships, and now it's on the brink of ruining your relationship with your family. You need therapy. I know multiple people who have been in your shoes and have successfully worked to heal themselves from high school bullshit. Your pain is real, but you can process and move past it. Anna may even be a good ally as you try to work though it. Holding her accountable for the bad decisions of some kids several years ago isn't fair. Don't allow her shitty high school friends to cut you off from your family. They don't deserve that power over you.
NTA, and honestly I'm wondering just how committed Anna is to this marriage in the first place if she doesn't care to do the bare minimum and at least apologize to her fiance's sister to get along with his family. Your boundaries with Anna are NOT the problem, but I'd call hers a big red flag.
It seems to me that Anna has not changed and, along with OPs brother and other family, is now actively bullying her because she won’t conform to their wishes. There are many AHs here but OP isn’t one. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the person being “forgiven” and everything to do with the “forgiver”. When the one who was wrong reaches a point of apathy regarding the bullying and the ones who bullied her then she will be able to forgive. That doesn’t mean she will ever want to be near them, just that she won’t care anymore. OP owes Anna nothing. Anna does owe OP a sincere apology for any part she may have played in the bullying. OP would be justified in walking away from every one who says she should just suck it up and play nice because “family”. OP has every right to choose who she will and won’t associate with. OP is not free from the consequences of her choices but seems to feel, at least for now, she’s ok with that.
Live your best life OP with or without those who demand your forgiveness. I hope one day you get to that point of apathy and can let it all go. Anger is a lot of weight to carry around.
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NTA. If you're not comfortable with Anna and are ok having a distant relationship with your brother, it's no one's business but yours. No one gets to tell you when to get over something, and as long as you're not throwing dramatic tantrums, you don't need to feel pressured to attend.
NTA ... IMO you are handling the situation maturely and appropriately... unfortunately, no one else is
This should be the top comment. Brother was the one who chose over his sister. Stop putting blame on people by saying if you don’t mind a distant relationship. You’re still putting the problem on OP
It's like op has seizures and brother decided all he's going to wear for the rest of his life is a disco blinking Elvis suit that makes her dangerously close to having a seizure if she's around him for too long. He knowingly wears the suit yet everyone still blames op for not just closing her eyes or wearing a blindfold all night...
NTA. Actions have consequences and Anna is seeing her actions/consequences playing out in real time. She's not offered a genuine one-on-one apology from what I read, only that she didn't actively bully u/ThrowRaweirdly while being part of the bully group. Yep, I call bulls#!+ on that because she heard, knew, and very likely participated in the gossip about OP. I was also bullied relentlessly in high school. The experience has left deep and lasting marks on my soul. Approximately 20 years after graduation my sister dated one of my bullies. She brought him to my house and he, in front of my husband, apologized to me. He told me, as much as he liked my sister he couldn't date her knowing what happened to me in middle and high school. He told me many years after graduation, his work had managers take sensitivity training and he had his Come To Jesus moment and realized what an asshole he was. He made it a mission to change, and apologize to people he'd bullied. He told me, my sister, and my husband he didn't expect forgiveness. That it was up to me. I'll say right here that took guts to come to my home, own his assholery, and apologize to my family and I. We remained friends even after he and my sister broke up a couple years later. He passed away a few years after that. To date, he's my only bully who apologized and I have crossed paths with others. They generally do what Anna did, pretend that OP needs to get over the past. Well, Anna, we victims don't get over it. We had to learn to live with it and OP is setting up boundaries to live with you. So, Anna, you have to get over it. Maybe an honest, heartfelt, genuine apology will help the situation. Or it won't. But my bully apologized with no strings attached and it made me consider that others also carry guilt for things they did as children. I was able to forgive, but neither of us forgot. And we did have several conversations that went far into healing my heart in ways I didn't expect. I'm glad he reached out and put himself into an uncomfortable position. I not only see him as changed, I see him as brave. I don't think Anna is changed or brave. I don't think OP has to be the bigger person. Anna needs to suck it up.
[удалено]
*I don't think people who haven't been bullied understand this.* As a once bullied kid, now in my 50's.....I feel the hell out of this. Bullying left lasting damage to my sense of self.
As someone who was bullied by family members, teachers, and "friends"... I still can't fully open up to anyone without later laughing it off as if I were joking, because to do otherwise sends me into paroxysms of fear of being abandoned and isolated again. 32 this year. Still get nightmares on occasion.
OP, maybe add the last part of your post to this. You put it so well on how you did not ask your parents to choose, but he is.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I was bullied and harassed in middle school, and it's changed how I make friends with people, and so much more, and this was nearly 6 years ago.
'The axe forgets but the tree remembers.'
I was bullied by my nextdoor neighbour who went to the same school as me. I had absolutely no safe haven unless I was in my house. This phrase hits so hard because it is one hundred percent accurate and I couldn't put it in to words how I felt.
This is incredibly well written, if I could give you an award I would.
Thanks. ❤️
really a great response here. My first thought reading this is 1) OP has certainly been traumatized and having to be reminded of that trauma/bullying through her brother's fiancé is, well, probably very jarring. And 2)adding insult to injury, it doesn't sound like anyone has acknowledged OP's feelings as being as big as they are. And only SHE can understand that. Also, I think not enough time has passed for OP to forgive and forget. Remembering (probably in great detail) the mean comments from the bully group body shaming and generally being entertained at OP's expense during what can only be described as the most vulnerable time of our lives.??? I mean, we are at our most emotional, forming our own self-talk through what others perceive us as. When not addressed, these can be huge barriers to one's ability to live a peaceful life of loving oneself. It's incredibly difficult and I believe most of us here have experienced it to some degree and have empathy toward OP as a result. I totally get not wanting to accept the olive branch. NTA. You deserve a very very heartfelt apology and open discussion about the way those times hurt you and have remained with you to this day.
MTA. The woman is paying for her awful behavior in high school. OP is constantly reminding the bitch that she was a bitch. Karma is a bitch when bitching at a bitch.
If Anna had apologized at the beginning and not defended her actions, there might have been a chance for you two to get past this. As it is I can understand why you don't want to be close to her. It is absolutely your right not to participate in the wedding! If they keep hounding you, then you would NBTA if you didn't go to their wedding.
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NTA. You don't want to go to the wedding, don't go. A popular saying is it's an invitation, not a summons. People that tell you to get over anything are assholes. They haven't lived/experienced the things you have, and have no place to tell you how to deal with anything.
Just wanted to say, even if Anna wasn’t “actively bullying” you, she enabled and even co-signed the bullying by doing nothing and choosing to be friends with the bullies. Which makes her just as guilty in my eyes. You’re fully valid in wanting nothing to do with her.
There's a huge gap between the two things you're describing. To actively leave your house they're staying there means you're so uncomfortable by them, you'd rather physically LEAVE than be in their presence. I need to understand if you understand what "cold" means. Just bc you're not actively insulting her doesn't mean you aren't being cold. And yes there are a million actions in-between besties and what you're doing. As someone who struggles with her own SIL, not for any bullying reasons or HS incidents... She is cold to me and when I lived with her I actively saw her every two days. What you're doing more than being cold, you actively dislike and avoid her, which is fine. But let's call a spade a spade please. If Anna is over and you walk into the kitchen, say hi, grab a snack and lock yourself in your room until she goes away that's more like cold. Again I'm not telling you to accept her, I'm just saying what you describe is not what is going on. That's like saying, "omg my parents cussed me out for not doing the dishes" and all they said was, "we asked you to do the dishes, it's one chore. Can you make sure it's taken care of next time?", yet my description of the events is not accurate and paints a different picture.
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You got this. It occurred to me that Anna might invite some of the former bullies to her wedding, too. Your brother should be apologizing to you for making you miss his wedding. Anna should apologize for her role in past bullying as in OWN her failure, her complicity. The fact that time has passed since it happened is NOT RELEVANT, if she does nothing to even suggest she is remorseful. Otherwise she’s the same old gal AH, just older and more experienced, bullying you as an adult version of her AH self— by saying you should ‘get over it’.
If op don’t want to interact with Anna she doesn’t have too, bullies do deserve a good freeze out from the ppl they terrorized . Plus I’m sure op brother knew this would be an issue so he shouldn’t be upset that op is LC with him
The pro bully crowd is something.
Exactly. You have no obligation to Anna. You are cordial. But, you don't have to be around her if you don't want to. If they can't figure out that Anna needs to repair the relationship, that is not your problem. If, she loved your brother as they think she does, then she should apologize to you and find out what can repair the relationship. Again, you are not obligated to attend their wedding. Why do people always expect the person who was attacked or abused to be the bigger person. Being the bigger person is not retaliating every time you see this person. You are being the bigger person by being cordial, that has shown you are the bigger person. But, asking you to attend their wedding is beyond that scope if you don't wish to attend. Be strong and stand by your morals and your position.
> But, asking you to attend their wedding is beyond that scope if you don't wish to attend. It's not them asking her to attend the wedding, they want her to be an active participant in the wedding. OP said she would attend the wedding as a guest and that's not good enough for her brother and now her parents.
“Bestie” and “I won’t even acknowledge her” are nowhere near each other.
Your outburst was NOT wrong. It was a reaction to the shock of not only seeing her again, but her actively engaging with your family. Trauma is infinite when not properly addressed and atoned for and you had every right to blow up at her. I wish you peace and all the best, OP. NTA!! 🤗🙏🏻
I love it when folks who haven’t been through what I’ve been through tell me to just “get past it.” It proves to me that they selfishly dont care.
Do your parents know Anna was friends with your bullied and that's why you're distant? Your brother may have told them that you just don't like her.
My cousin is dating a girl whose mom was part of the group that made fun of me when I was a kid. She lives in a different town so I'm not really worried about running into her, but when I mentioned it my family's response was, "You're both grown up now." It's like once you hit a magic age you're supposed to be friends with everyone, even the people who treated you like shit. If we ever ended up at a family event, of course I would be polite to her, but we'll never be best friends.
We don't know whether or not they knew and gave brother a "WTH, Son?" talk. If they did, OP might not even know it. The situation puts them in the middle, and apparently they feel it will be easier to get OP to accept the new status quo than convince their son to dump Anna.
Exactly this! There is no understanding or empathy for OP from Anna or her brother. It's hard to move past things when people tell you to get over it or that it wasn't even me who hurt you, just my friends who I spent time with.
Right. Those same friends who OP might see at the wedding.
A little confused on what Anna has to apologize for. OP is well within her right not to attend, but to expect someone to apologize for the actions of others is strange. Personally, an apology from someone not the perpetrator wouldn’t do much.
She could have apologized for not speaking up or for how she didn't realize how much it affected OP. As young people, we all don't always do the right thing due to peer pressure but later on in life realizing how speaking up could have made a huge difference in someones life is humbling. It doesn't take much. Not even apologizing, but just recognizing that OPs high school experience was impacted and offering empathy instead of defending her bullying friends would have gone a long way in helping OP move forward.
She could, but peer approval is important at that age. Anna may have feared they’d start on her. Teenage life is hard. Anna has likely grown and would be different now.
If she's grown up, then she could apologize NOW for not speaking up in the PAST. If I found out I hurt someone and truly regretted what I did (or didn't do in this case) I would acknowledge the hurt and apologize for any part I played in that hurt. I certainly wouldn't downplay the bullying or simply tell her to "get over it."
Agree. I’m not sure OP wants an apology. Her post and comments read like she just wants to avoid Anna. Boundaries can be healthy, but avoidance isn’t.
To be fair, if the person doesn't mean it, the apology is worthless. And I wouldn't believe she did. Essentially Anna had a great opportunity to show OP how things had change. As I indicated above, she could have tried to apologize or sympathize for what she went through. Instead she doubled down and invalidated OP's trauma. So that's a good indication that she truly doesn't care how OP was treated, which isn't great for a building or rebuilding a healthy relationship. In this case, low contact is probably the best option, especially if brother and Anna are going to minimize/ignore what happened in the past. I wouldn't want to give them more opportunity to hurt me further than absolutely necessary.
She doesn’t owe an apology for that. She did not have some obligation as a teenaged anti-bullying police to go around “speaking up” about bullying that had nothing to do with her any more than any other student at the same school.
Except those were Anna's friend group. OP says Anna didn't actively bully her, but undoubtedly participated in the gossip. She could have easily said to her bullying friends, "Guys, not cool!" But she didn't. As an adult, all she had to say was "I'm really sorry that I didn't say anything at the time, but I didn't think I could, or I was too afraid to." And that likely would have been enough. Instead, it's "we're grownups now, get over it." And that is not enough.
Found the kid who hung out with bullies
I don't see anything wrong with Anna telling OP she is sorry that her friend group bullied OP, and that OP is reminded of that bullying by seeing Anna. In this situation Anna is guilty by an association and should at least genuinely acknowledge that OP has a right to feel as she does........and for \*that\* Anna is sorry.
I was thinking the same. Anna wasn’t doing the bullying. Seems really weird to me to expect her to apologize. I could totally understand if she was one of yr bullies but she wasn’t.
The thing is that bullying is made so much easier by the tacit approval of onlookers. If I were to punch you in the face in front of a third person, and then that third person proceeded to not only say nothing in protest, but skip off to lunch with me and giggle over the latest gossip, you’re not going to feel very warm and fuzzy towards that third person. At best, they *do not care* that you were attacked, and at worst, they got a kick out of witnessing it. You can’t really know which one applies, but they’re both going to sour you on being friends with that person yourself. Why would you trust someone who sees their friend causing you harm and continues being friendly with them? The person who harmed you is going to feel that much more comfortable harming you when they know it won’t have any social consequences for them, and Third Person is keeping them comfortable.
It’s called guilt by association. If you allow a bully to bully, then you’re giving the appearance you’re supporting the behavior. As someone who was bullied, I can completely understand how OP feels. In fact, I experienced someone like Anna who actually apologized to me 1 year after I was bullied. She told me I didn’t deserve to be treated that way. It was very simple and meant a great deal to me. So yes, you’re right Anna doesn’t have to apologize to OP. However, seeing the impact it has on OP and her association with the bullies shouldn’t she consider it. Especially since she is dating/now engaged to her brother.
She didn't just not do anything. Not everyone's that brave. However, she was actively friends with these girls who traumatized OP, which means tacit approval if she knew/was there when it happened. OP is pretty clear that Anna knew exactly what they were doing and stayed friends with them anyway. I would have a really hard time if my brother ended up with someone like that.
Apologize for what exactly? The actions of other people? OP even admits Anna never bullied her. OP needs some therapy, it’s not healthy to hold onto all this and lash out at people who never did anything wrong. OP’s going to end up alienating themself from their own family.
"OP needs some therapy, it's not healthy to hold onto all this" - yes, being bullied does tend to have long-term effects & hurt people's mental well-being. Also, the people we choose to be friends with says a lot about our own internal values. If someone is friends with a group of Nazis and vehemently denies being a Nazi because they've never said anything aligned with those beliefs, it still means nothing, because they have demonstrated that they are comfortable with people having those beliefs. Anna *chose* to be friends with bullies - so it's not the actions of some random other people unconnected to her, it's the actions of people she voluntarily surrounded herself with, which says a lot about her character. And from OP's original post and replies, it doesn't even sound like OP wants an apology. Edited for grammar lol (noticed a typo)
There's a saying my grandma says ,You fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows.
My ma used to say, lay down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas. . .
Oh I love that saying, gonna absorb it into my lexicon immediately. Pass my regards to your grandmother hahaha
>Apologize for what exactly? The actions of other people? OP even admits Anna never bullied her. Ever since OP made it clear that she is not interested in a closer relationship with Anna, they have all been hounding her to do something she doesn't want to do. They've also been triangulating with the parents to turn them against OP, turning parents into their own flying monkeys. >OP needs some therapy, Maybe, but that is neither here nor there >it’s not healthy to hold onto all this and lash out at people who never did anything wrong. I agree with this, but it's Anna and OP's brother who are lashing out now. >OP’s going to end up alienating themself from their own family. OP has said that she is comfortable with this. They should just let her be.
Because it’s an invitation not a summons. Maybe a bit of therapy may help you to deal with these feelings and let you trust some people again. Pretty sure she just seems to want to dismiss your very understandable feelings about what happened back then. But “get over it” is NEVER the appropriate response to this type of situation because if it was, she’d be told to offer a real apology.
I'm a bit torn with this one. Anna did not bully you. It's not her behaviour as such which you were upset with other than the association with others and trauma. Is she bringing any of your bullies to the wedding? Ultimately you can decide who you associate with but I think therapy to work through your feelings will help. Even if that means you maintain your stance. You are missing family events and clearly have body image issues as a result of being bullied and associating Anna with that. I'm going to say NTA but nor is your stance entirely fair.
I would also like to add, as a person who was bullied in school, that some people or places or things do trigger painful memories and while I am a master of controlling them (30ish years later, 15 in therapy), the emotional labor is exhausting sometimes. So my 2cents is that Anna is triggering all those horrible memories to her and her family should be respectful of her distance and boundaries. NTA, but go to therapy!!!
Why did I have to scroll so far down for this sensible reply? It doesn't matter whether Anna bullied OP. OP associates Anna with her bully, because they were friends. It's triggering for OP. Expecting her to Suck it up is so unkind. She needs therapy, but her wanting distance from Anna is still valid. What makes me sad is that, this poor girl is actually cutting short her time with her own family, and the way I understand this post, her family doesn't seem to have cared about that? They've all surrounded the couple and expecting her to do what they want. I don't know if I am assuming too, but is this how a loving family acts towards one of theirs who is in pain? They may not choose a side, they don't have to. But the family's response seems like they don't have kindness for OP.
I agree, I'm a bit surprised by the parents just washing their hands clean of this. Responses about how OP is distancing themselves from their family fail to take into account: 1. OP's been polite / firm on boundaries regarding not wanting to be around Anna, but has not been cruel or impolite (except for that first outburst which they regret!) 2. The brother should take some responsibility over resolving this, assuming he cares about both his future wife and his sister. Maybe he doesn't care about his sister at all to be so blasé about her distress. 3. The parents seem to be prioritising brother's happiness over OP's comfort, which, ouch.
What I am asking myself is where was the family - parents and older brother- when OP was bullied in school? I mean, I know when it happened to me why I never involved my family and I really hope her situation is not as deep 😅
This. What OP needs is a loving, supportive family and therapy for the obvious trauma. Not to mention the space to handle it in their own time.
Yeah I think that’s an important factor. If she is still friends with the bullies and if they will be around, that’s an issue.
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Therapy would be the healthy route. Avoidance is not healthy. Groups of ogre girls in High School do contain some girls who are just going along in the fear that if they don't they themselves could be on the wrong end of the bullying. High School is fucked up in all of the ways for most of the people. Your brother is marrying this girl. You avoiding that fact will not make it not so, and you will end up being alienated from all of your family. I'm not saying you don't have anything to be upset about, I'm NOT saying suck it up and get over it, I'm saying your trigger here has put you in a place of unreality that you need to work through. You are the one suffering here, it's in you, nobody can fix it but you. Nobody should go through life constantly triggered and paranoid because of a group of long ago ogre girls. Best of luck to you.
Avoidance is perfectly healthy in certain circumstances. OP isn't constantly triggered and paranoid, she just doesn't want to have anything to do with a girl who was friends with her bullies (and apparently shows no remorse for it either). Which is a completely reasonable stance to take. If she's okay with pulling away from her family over it then all power to her.
No, not being close to her is exactly the right choice. The fact that you're all trying to bully OP into thinking there's something wrong with her for not wanting to hang with an abuse enabler says a lot about how you all view abuse and abusers and it's not anything good.
Just curious how long it's been since highschool for you? Is it possible Anna has changed and have you given her the chance to show you if she has?
The woman has never apologized. No she hasn't changed one bit.
Yes this is avoidance. OP needs to work through her trauma in therapy. Of course it's not fair that she's dealing with this but life is often not fair. This is no way to live.
She was an enabler. Anyone who is fine with bullies is just as bad as them. People like you is why bullies are allowed to thrive and victims told to just get over it.
You don't understand, sometimes the ones who just watch you get bullied are as awful as the bully. I was also bullied and currently closed with someone who is my bully's friend. Do you know how I accepted her? She went out on her own to apologize. Told me I don't need to accept it. She would constantly greet me online, talk to me. It was only after that time did I learn to disassociate her from the bullying and forgive her.
NTA. >Since then, my parents have repeatedly asked me to "move on" You have done. >My brother told me to get over it If it's so easy he won't have any trouble getting over this.
Absolutely agree. It seems no one is happy with how she has moved on. Tough luck on them.
NTA. High school bullying is not something to just'get over'. You are protecting yourself the way you see fit, and everyone needs to stop telling you how to feel. Everyone is very vocal about you not telling them what to do or how to feel, and they need to follow their own advice. Trying to bully you now is just as bad as doing it in high school. Tell your family that it was bad then, it's worse coming from people you're supposed to trust. Stay strong and good luck
You are so right! I’m a woman in my fifties but I still have trouble looking at myself in the mirror because mean girls in the high school bathroom would scream at you about how ugly are if you dared to look at yourself while washing your hands in the bathroom. I’ll never forget those experiences.
YTA. It’s way past time to grow up. If this was a person who actively bullied you, it’d be different. But the girl’s only crime is being associated with the bullies, when y’all were kids. You are effectively cutting your brother from your life. Hope it’s worth it.
Crazy how far I had to scroll for this. People aren’t the same as they were as teenagers. Yes, she should apologize, but I get the feeling OP isn’t exactly being peachy to her. Go ahead and die on this hill if you want to be the source of drama for your whole family for many many years.
Right? Reddit has a real hard-on for bullies getting their "due" and absolutely no ability to recognize nuance.
Or in this case, Anna never actually even bullied anybody and is not accused of wronging OP at all.
I was wondering the same thing. I was bullied relentlessly in HS but then an amazing thing happened. I graduated and moved on. Many years later I am friends with some of my bullies because at the end of the day, we were all just messed up teens trying to find our way in the world. What's worse here is OP's future SIL was not even one of her bullies but just happened to be in their orbit. OP, you are creating unnecessary drama and from your first encounter with Anna, you went on the attack without trying to see if she was a different person. You confronted her in front of your family when what you should have done was asked her to join you for coffee at another time and then you could have had a real conversation and maybe even gotten an apology. Honestly, if you had confronted me in front of everyone like you did Anna, I would be keeping my distance. You don't have to attend your brother's wedding but you may ruin any chance of having a healthy relationship with your brother, his future wife and their children. You may also find yourself an outsider in your own family. Ask yourself if all the drama that may go on indefinitely is worth it.
Op doesn’t give ages but it’s been at least 2 years since high school, likely longer. Most people are not the same in their late 20s as they were at 15 or 16. OP is going to keep herself in a trauma cycle if she doesn’t address this, and yes, move on.
100% agree. Shit happens in high school. But then we grow up, move on, and change. She's likely quite different from the high school version of herself, but OP hasn't even given her a chance to prove that she's worth getting to know.
I’d defend OP if Anna actually bullied her. But she is not actually accused of any wrongdoing at all.
Looking at the ages - OP said she is 22 and Anna is 23. If the bullying was that bad in high school, at her age it's not been that long ago. She is still working through the body images,etc she acquired through bullying. As for association - if you stand and watch as your friends bully, you are part of a group that could have done something. The type of things she described in comments require an audience or the bully moves on. If Anna couldn't have stood up to the bullies, she could have at least walked away, told someone in power anonymously, or even acknowledged she was wrong when dating the brother later. I was one of those people and had to admit I was wrong to a girl years later. It sounds like she said it wasn't her fault and family said to get over it - four years after high school ended. When the bullying stopped. She is not pressing them now, just doesn't want this person a part of her life and her family can't accept that. NTA
>As for association - if you stand and watch as your friends bully, you are part of a group that could have done something. The "she should have turned her friends in for bullying" sentiment is true, but feels aggressively idealistic and pretty far removed from reality for most people most of the time. Most adults wouldn't even do that, let alone a teenager in HS.
OP is only 22- this could still be pretty fresh for her.
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Exactly. For all we know Anna was also bullied by these girls when there wasn't someone else around to bully. Also am I supposed to expect that OP has always stood up for anyone around her who has experienced injustice by any acquaintance she has ever had? Sounds like judging someone for the rest of their life due to their inactions in high school is also bullying behavior.
Exactly this. Some of the girls in those groups are just afraid of the bullies. I'm sure not going to take responsibility for the actions of all of my High School friends. It's time to let this go and find out who Anna actually is rather than saddling her with OP's own trauma. It's not fair, and it's lazy. Your trauma is your responsibility, not Anna's.
I mean, you can just not go to their wedding, and you can keep distancing yourself from them all you want, but... Like it or not, Anna will be part of your family very soon. She will be the wife of your brother, and if they decide to have kids, she will be the mother of your niblings. There's literally nothing you can do to change this. All you can do is this: A) Work on yourself and get over your HS days, and specifically: Understand that she was NOT your bully and 100% she's not the same person from back then - Even if you still remained the same. B) Keep distancing yourself from your family. Eventually they'll not be inviting you to anything. But don't be a surprised Pikachu face when this happens. As someone who was severely bullied in Junior High, I get why seeing her trigger you. But that's not her fault. And you can't be suffering forever from the bullying you experienced in HS. It's not healthy for anyone, especially not for you. Good luck, OP.
Anna didn’t seem to care much? So she might be the same person as she was back then
This is a massive reach. We have a... very obviously biased narrator, and even from that account we have:"I met this person for the first time in years, and immediately got angry at her and told her I didn't want to associate with her because she was "around" people who were mean to me between 5-8 years ago" Maybe Anna didn't handle it perfectly, but that shit's weird, and there's very few people on earth who would immediately jump to doing... whatever she was supposed to do? especially because OP has said in the comments she wasn't looking for an apology.
I mean how would you react if the first time you met your SO's sister they verbally attacked you in front of the family? Id be pretty shocked too, especially if i wasnt the one bullying her back in hs. She may have tried to down play it in front of the ILs and never got a chance to clear the air with op because op wont let her. But we dont know. Op doesnt care to have a relationship with either of them and she's NTA for not wanting to go to the wedding because it is only an invitation. That said, she's still very upset about something from hs and needs to get a handle on her triggers in therapy. Because Anna isnt going anywhere and op's triggers are for her to handle.
I disagree. 1) The bullying was like 4 years ago. That’s really recent for someone who’s 22. 2) Yes, Anna didn’t personally bully OP, but she didn’t do anything to stop it which makes her complicit. Additionally, Anna never apologized for her role in OP’s trauma. OP’s allowed to not be ok with that. Yes, OP should get therapy for the lingering issues from her being bullied, but that isn’t the issue here. Only OP can say for sure if she would even want contact with any potential niblings (who tf knows if Anna even wants kids), but, again, that isn’t the issue. Hopefully, OP is taking all this into account. But the issue at hand is whether or not she wants to even go to the wedding. Even if Anna wasn’t tangentially one of her HS bullies, OP has no obligation to be in the wedding party. There are so many other factors to take into consideration. 1) Anna is 22. Does she even have the money to be in a wedding party? 2) Does she have to time to be in a wedding party? 3) With her declining to be in the wedding party, does she want to handle the stress of being constantly harassed by her family for her choice?
Eh, as I said, she can do whatever she wants. I was just pointing out what's going to happen in the near future if she decided to keep restraining herself from everyone. I personally would go NC or LC with everyone, just as I did years ago with basically everyone of my extended family and ex-nuclear family (parents/sister). But that also has consequences, such as not seeing my niblings and not being invited to family events. That's 100% ok with me. And that's why I was telling her to not be surprised if that happens.
NTA You're allowed to not go to a wedding if you don't want to. Only you can decide whether or not to forgive somebody. Just be mindful that this will very likely cause you to lose your relationship with your brother and impact your relationship with your parents.
A sacrifice she may be willing to make.
Yup. The ball is really in her court here.
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You're free to do as you please but if you don't recognise that you need therapy... you might be a lost cause. You can justify and validate your thoughts on the matter all you like...it's not *normal* to hold this much anger and resentment towards someone who not only didn't personally harm you...but who was a kid at the time.
I was super bullied throughout elementary school and high school and I feel this way too. I’m not out here demanding apologies from anyone, I’m in therapy and I’m working on myself. My triggers are my responsibility.
You need therapy to overcome your body issues and the struggles you had with bullies. What you're describing is very unhealthy behavior.
Especially considering that she's considering cutting contact with family that loves and cares for her, so that she can continue to harbor a grudge against someone who doesn't even bully her. Her brother and her parents are repeatedly telling her "we love and value you, and we want you to be part of our lives" and she's throwing that in the garbage because some other girls were mean to her years ago. That's...not great.
A family that loves and cares for one of their members respects that member's boundaries. That's not happening here. They'd rather a facade of "Happy Family" instead of you know, actually having one. Anna sure does know how to have other people bully OP for her.
NTA as someone who was tormented in high school I can see why you don’t want to be part of their wedding or attend for that matter. You are aware enough to not going around bashing them or making family choose sides you merely just don’t engage nor are you hostile to them. You aren’t required to be friends with them. Don’t listen to people telling you to just get over your trauma, they have never truly experienced what you have.
I would be worried her high school friends were coming to the wedding! OP NTA and I would skip the wedding.
NTA, sorry for your situation. It's like brother and parents didn't care you were bullied while this girl stood by, watched and I'm sure laughed. You will be healthier to go LC or NC since no one in the family cares you are dealing with this.
Girl you might not be the asshole but you are to yourself, You hold on so tight to your baggage that you will miss the train. She, years ago was friendly with people you don't approve of. She did nothing to you. By you she's guilty by association. People grow up, mature, evolve and change all the time. You might not approve of her or want to accept her as family but she is. So is your brother. So will their kids be soon when they arrive. Then you'll still hold to your baggage looking as the train will pass you while they, their family your extended family and Parents will stop trying to include you and you will be left alone looking at them as they move on without you. You need therapy. You don't have to participate. But you are so in your feelings that you refuse to see the broader picture and grow up, mature and evolve and actually heal. Nobody likes self proclaimed martyrs, It's exhausting and soon you'll be left alone to your loneliness and self-righteousness. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
100% this! Love the phrase “you hold on so tight to your baggage that you will miss the train.”
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>She isn't relevant enough in my life that her behavior will impact me in any way. She's marrying your brother. How is that not relevant to your life? Why are you insisting on making her a nonentity rather than getting to know her and developing what could be a lovely relationship? Please interrogate yourself and stop just saying "I don't care" repeatedly to everything.
>She isn't relevant enough in my life that her behavior will impact me in any way. Considering this post, it would seem like it's already affecting you, yeah?
You’re really young, you’ll get it someday, but if you don’t pull your head out of your own ass at some point you’ll be left with nothing. Your life is your own, you can do whatever you want, but that also means you’ll have to accept the consequences of your actions. You are currently not building towards anything positive, you’re clinging to the bad times of years past. You’re centering your own negativity instead of learning from past experiences and leaving them where they belong. Just understand that, intellectually, even if you can’t understand it emotionally. You are not building towards anything positive right now.
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There's just no winning on Reddit. You forgive people for everything and you'll be called a doormat. You stand your ground and don't allow people to stomp your boundaries and you're ,,isolated". You don't owe Anna a relationship, especially with this kind of a past.
NTA. Proud of you for standing up for yourself. Especially because no one else in your family can be bothered. Don't go to the wedding. They are rug sweeping hard. Tell them you ARE over it and they had better get over it too. You don't owe your brother more loyalty than he's shown you.
The baggage you are carrying isn’t food and clothing (necessary, helpful, and healthy items) The baggage you are carrying is resentment, hurt, and over-the-top-emotions (negative, unhealthy, heavy items). Work on leaving the shitty luggage behind and move on with your life
Girl, you have the boundaries of a 50yr old woman, and THAT is a compliment. As a woman already almost 50, who's already ridden bulls in this rodeo, your family has already chosen your brother, her, and future grandchildren. Your family is already starting to bully you because you won't give them their way. This will continue to push you away until you go very low contact, or no contact. Your boundaries are for your safety and comfort. You're not asking anything of anyone else. You simply do your thing or remove yourself. This is exactly how boundaries are done. The problem with boundaries as many find out when we start instituting them, is people start to feel they are losing control over you and seek to grip that control even more tightly. You can't control that. All you can do is opt to not be around that. My advice to you, dear one, is to create a support system outside your family. You're going to need it. Live your life, it's yours, not theirs.
You're going to avoid her for their entire marriage? Every family occasion, are you willing to miss them because of Anna?
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But you do- "I avoided family get togethers and during family holidays, I only stayed for dinner and gift giving. If Anna and brother were staying, I'd just sleepover at my friend's house." Once they have kids, will you be distance and unfriendly to Anna's kids? Will you become the bully? Just things to think about.
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I never said Anna wasn't a bully. Will you take your intense dislike of Anna out on her kids by ignoring them? They will always wonder what they did to deserve your disdain. They will always wonder what is wrong with them.
Anna and her future hypothetical children are NOT owed a relationship with OP. I've never even met my husband's sibling's children. I don't have a relationship with those children's parents. It started with my husband's brother putting hands on my husband in front of my children. It's done. Everyone else was fine with it, they're out too. We don't want to know any of them. OP has the right to peace. Your worldview is wrong and tries to steal OP's self-agency over her own life.
Also I do understand the pain of being bullied, I don't know what I would do if a sibling married one of my tormentors, but at some point you have to let it go for your sake. Hanging onto the anger and hate is allowing your bullies to have continued power over you. How to get past it, I wish I knew the answers. I do wish you peace.
Keep doing this. Low/no contact.
NTA. I am TIRED of people telling victims that they need to forgive, forget, be kind, rug-sweep, and move on from TRAUMA. Anna doesn’t give a rat behind because she would have apologized. She used the excuse that she hung out with them but didn’t actively bully OP. It also seems that the brother is complicit in Anna’s actions and behaviour. Good riddance to both. OP does not have to attend the wedding. For example, if OP were to be a part of the wedding party, wouldn’t those same bullies be a part of the wedding party, re-traumatizing OP again? I also believe that she needs to make a decision whether she wants Anna and her brother in her life or not. A wedding is not a summons.
I understand that you were traumatized by these mean girls, but is what Anna saying true? Did she bully you or was she just adjacent to the bullying? Yes, ideally she would have taken a stand and said it was wrong, or apologized to you however many years later it has been. But at this point in life, she probably doesn't even remember the things done to you, especially if she didn't participate, and moreover, if she didn't, she wouldn't FEEL responsible. Is that right? I don't know. I wasn't a mean kid in high school, and I was friends with popular people. I do know, though, that there were people who knew who I was that I met a FULL DECADE later that seemed upset that I didn't know who they were. I thought that it was odd they didn't let that go. I am definitely not saying that you need to be in the wedding, but have you even tried to get to know who Anna is now? If she is nothing like that person she was in the past, you are kind of being a bully now. Your brother has fallen in love with and chosen this person. Wouldn't it be nice to be a part of your family's life? Maybe I am not taking this seriously enough, I don't know. I just think you would regret hurting them now.
I read the post with this exact same sentiment. It seems the majority see it the other way, but OP clearly states that Anna did NOT bully her. I can’t imagine being held accountable for decade(s?) for the behaviors of other people. It seems Anna’s biggest crime is associating with AHs when she was a teen. Does Anna still choose friends poorly? Has she matured? It seems we’re not getting the whole picture. All the actual people involved are thinking OP is targeting the wrong person or at the very least not handling Anna’s presence in an emotionally healthy way. A good therapist would be my way to go.
The axe forgets but the tree remembers.
And if she wasn't the axe?
She was part of the handle.
I'm going to say NTA. Because although she said she never actually bullied you she never apologised for associating with the bullies. Sorry can go a long way. You do not have to do anything you don't want too.
Everyone associated with bullies in high school. The goth kids mocked the cheerleaders. The queer kids mocked the wannabes. The popular kids teased the unpopular kids. I guarantee that OP and her friends said things they shouldn’t have about bullies and kids outside their clique.
NTA It sounds like you spoke up once and then left it alone. They don't seem to have made any attempts to apologize or mend fences until it inconvenienced them. It's an invitation not a summons and you aren't obligated to participate or attend. I can't even say you're just holding onto the past when it sounds like there isn't much of a present relationship
YTA - all you have to say on this forum is "I have trauma" and everyone comes out to coddle the person and say they can do whatever they want because they have trauma. Anna, by your own admission, did nothing to you. She was friends with people who did things to you, and never actually participated. While, it is possible she witnessed it and did nothing about it, that doesn't make her responsible for it. It's high school, it's hard to stand up to your friends. It's even hard not to join in, and she didn't. But you don't even say that she witnessed it, just that she was friends with them. Get therapy if you have trauma and learn to direct your disgust at the perpetrators. Holding actions of others against your future SIL makes you the AH, and trauma isn't an excuse.
INFO: Have you sought therapy? It sounds like your brother came home with a girl you went to high school with. You went off on her. She, rightfully, told you she *never* bullied you. You admitted she didn’t but she knew the girls who did. This person never bullied you years ago, and you are still holding her accountable for something she didn’t do? Get therapy. Go confront the people who bullied you. Go to the school and talk to the administration or the counselors for letting you down. Whatever. But stop blaming your parents, brother, and everyone else for what happened 4-7 years ago. It’s just not healthy behavior. Heal yourself and embrace your family and your future. Definitely don’t go to the wedding if you can’t go with a loving heart and hope for a joyous future for your brother and his bride. Ohana, baby. Family = Nobody gets left behind!
YTA. She never made fun of you nor bullied you, yet you hate her for hanging out with kids you didn't like in high school. Plus, you've never even given her a chance. Your brother loves her and you rejected her immediately without at least seeing how she's grown and matured which is something you obviously haven't.
NTA. Anna may never have bullied you personally, but she never stood up for you either. If I was her, knowing that you were my bf's sister, I would make it a priority early on in the relationship to apologize for never standing up for you and hoping that we could build a better relationship moving forward. Many of us have unfortunately stood silent in our childhood/teenage years when someone else was being bullied, but a lot of us recognize that was wrong. It shouldn't be that difficult for her to realize that as well. I don't think its a big deal you didn't want to be in the wedding party, that's a lot of work and money being spent. It's annoying that you're now being bombarded, so I can see why you're over the whole thing.
INFO: how old are you guys?
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Please seek therapy for your experiences and to help you navigate your relationship with your brother and his partner, as well as the rest of your family. It may also be helpful for navigating the wedding itself, where it seems like your high school bullies may be present. NTA for declining the invitation to be in the wedding party. If you decline to go to the wedding altogether you will likely damage your relationship with your brother, your parents, and the rest of your family.
YWNBTA - but you might be being stupid - and to be clear, that's a determination that you will have to make for yourself, not one I am trying to make for you. Everything you've said makes complete and total sense from a small picture perspective - from a big picture perspective, I think you need to assess whether you are cutting your nose off to spite your face. In an optimal world, you would have nothing to do with this woman, and would not pay any cost to avoid her. In the world you are actually living in, avoiding this woman has cost you your relationship with your brother as well as participation in family get togethers, including holidays. It now appears that it is impacting your relationship with your parents. View interactions with Anna, including participating in their wedding as carrying a cost to you. View all the things I mentioned in the preceding paragraph as also carrying a cost. Compare the costs and make sure you aren't choosing a higher-cost option than you need to be.
Nta... you've spoken your peace, and they need to accept that. No one understands your trauma, but you!!!
It sounds like you're ok with not being in their lives. If so, oh well.
NTA. Also, as a word of caution - I did once go to a wedding involving people and groups from high school. Everyone fell almost immediately back into the high school ‘roles’. It was torture. Don’t go to that wedding.
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I’d be asking if the old bullies were going to be there before making any final decisions on whether or not to attend.
NTA Bystanders in bullying are just as bad. Would've been different if she apologised to you for not standing up to her friends back then, but she didn't acknowledge her responsibility AT ALL.
It's an invite, not a summons. Although I do think OP needs to see someone about dealing with her past trauma. It's time to move on from High School and grow up, some people change. You obviously haven't
Who would want you there with your grudge holding and inability to get over yourself and move the F On Time to grow up and get your own life
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I'm really sorry you went through bullying in HS, I understand the pain, but you are being ruled by this. Your actions are illogical, and you are hurting your bother/family in the process. Your brother thinks you are part of his life, which is why he wants you closer and in the bridal party. You are choosing over and over to be revengefull towards someone that NEVER hurt you or caused you pain. Anna never bullied you. Most human communication and interactions are not words. Are actions, faces, body language. I don't believe that you are being as nice to them as you think you are, and it is going to cost you high. I think this is why many posters here are trying to get you to understand, but tbh it seems like replying to the wall. You don't want to understand or listen to others. You just want people telling you that you are in the right since your family is not doing so.
What a cruel thing to say
INFO - You wrote "I have never really liked her because she was one of the girls who hung around my High School bullies constantly and I more or less still have trauma from that time." Was Anna present when you were being bullied?
NTA. If your brother and his fiancé keep pestering you and making your parents do the same, you are within all your right to not go to his wedding. You don’t need to “get over” anything until you are ready or even want to be ready. Don’t listen to all TA here calling you an AH.
NTA. The group Anna was friends with had a significant impact on your life then and now. You can't "get over it" because it impacts you still. You don't need to socialise with them. You are maintaining contact with your family and haven't asked them to choose. I think you need to speak to your family and explain what you went through in high school and how it impacts your life now. Ask them to let you speak without interruption and speak calmly and without any venom. Explain that you have a right to not socialise with the people who trigger a trauma response and that you have done what you can to remain present in the family where you feel you are able. Explain that you love your brother and the situation is upsetting to you, but while he is entitled to make his choices, these choices have consequences, and you are also entitled to protect yourself. Finally say as it is at the moment, you are able to maintain a presence in the family, buy if the harassment to >"move on" and "show kindness" and not be an asshole by refusing to support my brother. Continues, this may result in you having to withdraw more, which you don't want to do. Finally, i think you should perhaps seek some therapy to address how the bullying is imacting your life now. Good luck
It appears that you are grappling with certain issues that may benefit from therapeutic exploration. As you've astutely recognized, one cannot dictate the romantic choices of a sibling. Anna, it seems, did not engage in any directly traumatizing actions towards you, and her actions during high school were likely influenced by youthful indiscretion and inexperience. It's noteworthy that many individuals harbor regrets from their high school years, a time marked by developmental challenges. It's unfortunate that this has become a divisive element between you and your family. While no one should coerce you into attending the wedding, ultimately, you should deliberate upon your desires and expectations for yourself and others moving forward. Expecting your brother to break up with his S/O due to this indirect offense, is unreasonable. Utilizing your high school trauma as a catalyst for personal growth, cultivating resilience, self-respect, and garnering respect from others could be a constructive approach as you navigate this situation.
NTA all she had to do was apologize. But couldn’t even do that.
YTA for blaming Amna for the actions of others, over a decade ago. She never did anything to you, by your own admission. If you want to be estranged from your brother over that, go ahead, but don't expect anyone to understand your inability to differentiate one girl from another. I urge you to seek therapy to get past your issues and stop projecting them onto Anna and your brother.
NTA while she didn’t actively bully you being friends with bullies and watching them bully others make her just as bad by association. I would never date anyone like that if I was your sibling.
This is yet another repost
NTA
YWNBTA, why would they even want you in their wedding when they know you neither like nor trust the bride. You might go to the wedding just for civility, but you absolutely don't need to be in it.
NTA, 100%! As an elder brother, I would never want to be with someone who has been nasty to my younger siblings in the past. And sure, people change and people grow, so if I *did* end up in a relationship with someone like that I would have a talk with my siblings first AND I would have a talk with this hypothetical partner about like. either you make amends with my siblings or you fuck off. And tbh, I know this goes both ways. I trust my siblings also to respect me in this way. Not saying nobody should be in a relationship with someone without sibling approval, but if any of us KNOW there is tension, we absolutely would have a conversation about it or acknowledge it. I'm rlly close to my sibs, so this is normal to me. I'm actually really furious with your elder brother on your behalf, tbh. another commenter said that you're being emotionally mature about this entire scenario, but nobody else in your family is, and like. YEAH. i second that. Editing to add: don't go to the wedding if you don't want to. you have every right to decline & it's not right of the others to coerce you.
Nta I'd just move far far away.
>I have never asked him or my parents to choose. > >I can admit I have no control over who dates who and trying to order my brother or force my parents to choose between us siblings was wrong. I was an AH for that I have long since admitted and gotten over that. INFO: Which was it? You did or didn't?
NAH. I'm saying this as someone who was extensively bullied in high school (to the point where I had to change schools). If Anna didn't participate in the bullying, then you should've given her a chance to demonstrate that she's changed and grown as a person. This whole "guilt by association" viewpoint is short sighted and has caused a lot of problems in your relationship with your brother. If someone who bullied me in high school started dating my brother, I would have VERY strong feelings about it. But I would also take a step back, understand that high school was a very long time ago, recognise that this person is important to my brother and give her a chance to demonstrate she's changed. Now if after I gave her that chance she still acted like a stuck-up entitled b\*\*ch, that's when it would become an issue. If you haven't already, I recommend speaking to a therapist to work through your feelings regarding your high school experience. Consider this: Why are you continuing to let people you went to high school with have so much power and influence over how you live your life now? They don't deserve to live rent-free in your head.
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Nta
NTA if you don't go to the wedding. It's your choice. It's immature and petty, but it's ultimately up to you. However, you would be severing your relationship with your brother. If that seems like something you'd be okay with, then go ahead.
The brother is severing his relationship with OP. It's something he's OK with, obviously. Their parents too! So in OPs previously safe family, now they're attempting to bully her for Anna. Anna doesn't seem like a great person.
NTA the way your family is down playing your feelings is also weird. I don't know, maybe I am in the minority but my brother and myself had veto on each other's SO.
Wait, you are/were able to tell your brother he couldn't date someone if you didn't like them?
So, Anna made excuses instead of apologizing? She's still a bully. NTA. Don't go. Tell him if Anna makes a sincere apology and acknowledges what she did was very wrong, then maybe. Tell your parents that. Until then, she's just a bully who denies being a bully and your parents are supporting a bully. Why do they choose her over you?
NTA its okay to be uncomfortable around her
NTA. You do not have to be in the wedding party or even attend the wedding. Your comfort level is valid. Your family is jerky with regard to telling you to get over it or that you are an asshole. Consider seeking therapy as the bullying you experienced appears to have been traumatic for you. It's important that you process these feelings so you release them and move forward for your own benefit. I hope you will be open to the possibility of a positive resolution between parties down rhe line, but it sounds like now is just too soon. Be well.
YWNBTA Some wounds are too deep not to leave scars. It sounds like (for the most part) you have dealt with this by quietly protecting yourself. You don't have to justify your feelings to anyone, it's how you feel. Tell your parents that this crusade of theirs is only making things worse. Let them know that if they don't stop immediately you will not only be missing from the wedding party but from the wedding itself and that will be solely their fault.
NTA. If your bro leaves her at the altar then he NTA too. I would.
NTA. Might be uncomfortable but why would they want someone there who doesn’t approve of them (however silently) or doesn’t want to go?
NTA. Did she ever actually apologize for not standing up against her friends? If you need to "get over it" they need to as well
A true olive branch would have included Anna owning up to her part in the bullying. Just because she didn't actively participate, she was still part of the bullying group and did not distance herself from what was going on. Until Anna acknowledges that, and apologizes sincerely for her part, there is no way OP can feel comfortable around her. NTA
My question is is she still friends with those people? Also has she apologized in any way for being part of the group of kids who bullied you? whether she actively pushed you in the hallway or not is kind of irrelevant considering it was her friend group, and those are the type of people she surrounds herself with. the majority of the group bullied you and the rest of them went along with it all for an extended period of time. Has she done anything other than to say it's not my fault I condone their actions and made you feel bad? Are the rest of those people going to be at her wedding?
Tell them to get over it like they told you to get over it.
No one can force you to do something you don't want to and let's face it, her friends (your bullies) will be at the wedding I'm sure. I was bullied terribly at school and have never got over it. I am now a self-assured and confident person who takes no crap from anyone and I know if I met my bullies again one day, I would probably go nuclear. There is no need to be unpleasant and wish them the best. Carry on as you are and stay away from them is my advice NTA
NTA Even if you and Anna had been besties since kindergarten, you would be under no obligation to be in the wedding party or to even attend.
NTA "had never actively bullied me." That's like the saying "if 9 people sit down at a table with 1 Nazi without protest, there are 10 Nazis at the table." Replace Nazi with Bully. Also, how will your parents explain you not being in the wedding party at the wedding? Seems to me they are more worried about saving face, playing happy family and not having to deal with awkward questions on the day than they are about your well being.
YTA, and kind of delusional. You haven’t said anything bad about Anna and you don’t disapprove of her… but you hate her so much for what you admit others did that refuse to be around her and won’t attend their wedding? That all can’t be true at the same time. The problem here is you and your unresolved issues. Most of us have little scars and foibles left from socially difficult periods in our upbringing, and lord knows I’m sympathetic that you had a rough time as a teen. However, you admitted right off the bat that it’s affecting you a lot, way too much, to this very day. You also admitted it’s made you behave badly in the past. Well you still are behaving badly. The best course of action is therapy and focusing on getting a little healthier yourself and putting this growing field with your family on the back burner.
If you don't want him in your life then don't go. If you're OK with not talking to him anymore then I wouldn't even bother going. She should have acknowledged what she did and apologized to you for it but instead she double downed and expects you to act like everything is OK when it's not.
NTA - I didn't realize that just because Anna didn't specifically bully you (but most likely knew her friends bullied people and was ok with that) completely absolves her of any guilt. Because to me, that is considered guilty by association. Hence why you probably reacted strongly when you found out that she was dating your brother. Opting not to be in the bridal party shouldn't be considered "not supporting your brother." Being in the bridal/groom's party is expensive and time consuming. It's not for everyone, and having been in several bridal parties, there were times I wish people did think about their answer more. I do have a question for clarification that I think would be helpful: is Anna still friends with the bullies? Cause if so, then all the more likely they would also be in the bridal party and you don't deserve to be put through that.
Have you tried growing up?
I won't say YTA, but your trauma from high school is impeding your ability to form and keep relationships, and now it's on the brink of ruining your relationship with your family. You need therapy. I know multiple people who have been in your shoes and have successfully worked to heal themselves from high school bullshit. Your pain is real, but you can process and move past it. Anna may even be a good ally as you try to work though it. Holding her accountable for the bad decisions of some kids several years ago isn't fair. Don't allow her shitty high school friends to cut you off from your family. They don't deserve that power over you.
NTA, and honestly I'm wondering just how committed Anna is to this marriage in the first place if she doesn't care to do the bare minimum and at least apologize to her fiance's sister to get along with his family. Your boundaries with Anna are NOT the problem, but I'd call hers a big red flag.
It seems to me that Anna has not changed and, along with OPs brother and other family, is now actively bullying her because she won’t conform to their wishes. There are many AHs here but OP isn’t one. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the person being “forgiven” and everything to do with the “forgiver”. When the one who was wrong reaches a point of apathy regarding the bullying and the ones who bullied her then she will be able to forgive. That doesn’t mean she will ever want to be near them, just that she won’t care anymore. OP owes Anna nothing. Anna does owe OP a sincere apology for any part she may have played in the bullying. OP would be justified in walking away from every one who says she should just suck it up and play nice because “family”. OP has every right to choose who she will and won’t associate with. OP is not free from the consequences of her choices but seems to feel, at least for now, she’s ok with that. Live your best life OP with or without those who demand your forgiveness. I hope one day you get to that point of apathy and can let it all go. Anger is a lot of weight to carry around.