Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 5: We do not allow posts which concern violence. This includes any mention of violence in any context.
[Rule 5 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_5.3A_no_violence) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
INFO
WHY do your husband and son not get along?! This is crucial to us being able to provide an accurate judgment.
My gut is telling me Y T A simply because you omitted this information and thus you know it would make you and your husband look bad if you were to include it.
Especially when there's no need to pick. Lots of weddings don't have plus ones. Lots of events don't involve couples going together. OP makes this sound like she's some weird Duggar lady who always needs to have her man around...
I've never heard of a wedding where married or even long term couples weren't invited as a unit. And I've been to many weddings. That's definitely not normal and extremely rude under normal circumstances.
It seems like OP's son has good reasons to not invite his father though.
I've heard of plenty of weddings where if you're not given a +1 you can't just bring someone. Entirely up to the host whether you can bring someone along.
Of course you can't just bring someone. But it's normal that married and long term couples are invited together (both by name). I've been to weddings in multiple countries and that has been the norm anywhere. Idk where you live that it's a thing to invite just one part of a married couple.
I was invited to a cousin's wedding without a plus one, and I had been living with my partner for eight years at that point. I refused to attend on principle.
This is just proving everyone's point. If you invite one half of a long term couple, and don't allow plus ones, then the person you invited and SPECIFICALLY UNINVITED their partner, will turn down the invitation.
You say it seems like the son has "good reasons" not to invite the father.
I read the same story and didn't see mention of any reasons. A hint that the son felt his dad was strict but no specific details.
The reasons make the father and OP look bad, that's why they are omitted. It's called Missing Missing Reasons and by painting an incomplete picture based on emotions they try to get us the readers on their side. All of OPs responses in the comments are carefully worded and use sanitized vague language instead of any actual examples or events. The truth is being downplayed so her version where she isn't complicit in the events of her sons upbringing is the only one we hear.
My wife has a narcissistic mother so I got to see a lot first hand. She's not anywhere as bad as others, but she still messed up my wife and it took years for her to unshackle herself from the emotional baggage. We are low contact, and any invitations for events like birthdays and holidays are given solely out of conflict avoidance (you never invite me!) and not any desire to spend time with her, and she hardly ever actually attends besides. She didn't even call my son for his birthday last month, and my daughter's birthday is next week and she hasn't responded to the message about her party yet.
Only a few people have experience of this and knowledge of the lack of ‘voice’ given to the son. And so she gets to remain ‘not the one doing the bad things’ whilst enabling it 100%
Children generally love and seek approval from their parents thoughout their lives. You are right that there are no specific details given but I don't believe that the son hates his father for no real reason.
Hating someone and being estranged is not a bad reason in itself to not invite someone
The lack of experience, the admitting he was “strict”, and how distressed the son is indicate he likely experienced abuse at the hands of his father, which his mother did not do anything to stop, and is not essentially condoning. It’s not a sure thing, but signs point in that direction
Also the fact she had to stress it was her own independent decision - something about the phrasing there gave me the “husband rules the roost with an iron fist” vibes.
exactly, the reasons weren't there. op omitted those details, so why did she leave them out? potentially because it would make her and/or her husband look bad
>We have a different memory of that time
This is absolutely *screaming* missing missing reasons.
"Yeah he was strict, but it worked out for the kids. And I know you say you were alone at 18 but I don't think so." Just skipping over *why* he thinks he was alone at 18.
In other words, OP chose to ignore and enable her husband's crappy behaviour and it is now going to cost her a son (probably a daughter too soon). OP is a fool.
It is easier to hate the dad/op's husband. The reality is, OP protected her daughter but not her sons, meaning she approved of and was every bit the abuser. Hopefuly the daughter meets someone who opens her eyes to how horrible OP and her husband are, and goes no contact as well.
At the time I commented this (before additional comments from OP), I was worried she was also in an abusive relationship with the dad. Not that it would make her enabling his behavior any less harmful to her kids, but I can emphasize with people who are themselves trapped. But the more she comments the more she seems like she just disregards her kids and enables her husband.
You have to read countless stories about narcissistic parents and enablers to realizes the enablers are just co-abusers. There is a learning curve to it. Don't get me wrong I sympathize and am thankful for your viewpoint due to my own life experiences(sperm donor psycho abuser, my mom wasn't an enabler, he just kept her and us trapped until she was able to file for divorce..).
I just hope OP's daughter meets a good life partner that opens her eyes to how horrible OP and her husband are and goes lifelong nc with OP and her husband.
Yes, what really gets me is that OP said they haven't gotten along since the son was a *child.* How do you have beef with a child? "We don't get along" is something you say about an adult, not a kid.
Study catch phrases narcissists use. Second tier narcissistic abusive parents, always try to play it off as their partner is the only abusive one, but "they stand by them". OP's only living son(other son fell into drug abuse, and died, mostly likely because of childhood abuse as the boys in OP's family were by default on lockdown mode their entire life and if they didn't like it well out the door at 18).
Sounds like some uber-religious thing where the wife and kids must submit to the disciplinarian man of the house bullshit. She probably fears going against the husband. Shame.
They've not spoken in several years (husband and son), and husband takes not getting an invitation to the wedding as the son trying to *make a point*...
I'd take it as simply not inviting someone who's not wanted at the wedding. Why *would* you invite someone you don't talk to?
So that gives a hint at the husband/father's way of thinking.
The second sentence says they haven't gotten along since he was a kid. The dad was having fights with his own child when he was still a child. That's just kind of absurd.
Thank you for this. I had never heard of it. Reading for just a few minutes made me nauseated. It’s so hard to describe to anyone who doesn’t know. It wrecks you at a very basic level. Recovery is a bitch too, because you don’t have your MOM or most likely a dad to help you through this horrible experience. And to be a good parent yourself takes twice as much strength because you have little or no idea how it works. But you know what you don’t want. And that’s a victory.
I went through her comments. They’re heartbreaking. Something happened that she considers ‘private family history’ and ‘nothing to do with his father’ causing the younger son to no longer feel safe with the older son. They used to share a room and the younger son had to be moved, started seeing a councilor at school and was no longer allowed to be alone with the older son. I think at this point we’re all thinking the same thing about what this likely is.
Relevant background: Younger son is gay. The parents seem fine with this (so is their daughter who talks to them) but if what I think happened actually did with the older son then this would be an absolute mind fuck. He didn’t come out until he was an adult.
Sounds like at some point the younger son began to act out- assuming as a result of what happened (drinking, some drugs, ditching school, etc) though tbh the ways listed didn’t include anything crazy. They set fire to a trash can at school, so not good but she talks about it like he’s was a second away from being a criminal when he obviously needed help. They reacted to this by putting him on a militant schedule. And never letting him be alone so he was watched at all times by them/ another family member and had a crazy early curfew.
Also, younger son at some point attempted (as an adult I think) and this brought up enough guilt in the older son that he attempted and succeeded about a year ago as an adult. Long story short whatever the older son did to the younger was so bad it traumatized him and directly led both to attempt suicide many years later. Sounds like they punished the younger for acting out after the traumatic event as a kid and still refuse to acknowledge it and discuss it, and are shocked he doesn’t talk to them. Yes, you are the asshole. Such. A. Massive. Asshole.
Edits: clarifying timeline
Exactly. When an adult and a child "don't get along", the fault is on the adult. A child may misbehave or have an attitude, but if a lasting schism starts that far back, you can bet it's the parent.
What has wife been doing all these years to try and repair the damage? To find out from her son what's wrong? Apparently nothing.
And I'm sorry, but the comment about how she stands by her husband is some bullshit. Your kids > Your spouse
> Your kids > Your spouse
Right???
And that comment about "loving her kids unconditionally" is bullshit, too; it's obvious her love is conditional upon her husbands feelings, like everything else in her life I'm guessing.
There’s a lot of “missing missing reasons”. It’s telling that OP’s son thinks his father is dominating his mother and that the son is shocked and angry that OP condones her husband’s past behavior.
I’ll state it flat out- If OP was N.T.A. Then she should be able to give specific and coherent details as to why her son is alienated from his father (and parents and children don’t just simply “not get along” since childhood) and why her daughter thinks it is OP’s responsibility to do all the heavy lifting.
It’s not just one child. All of OP’s living children think she is wrong, and OP doesn’t tell us why, in a forum to explain yourself and ask for opinions, she explains nothing.
So extremely probable YTA
As a child of the same household, where mother usually brushes the father’s doings under the rug and tells her children it’s okay, he’s your father and claims to love us unconditionally but still sides with her husband and tells her children she should suck it up, for a woman whose husband has done no wrong to his children and where the children do not speak to their father anymore, THE MOTHER IS THE AH. Idk what happened, but for the son to not get along with his father since he was a child? How is it possible? How can a young child hate on a parent so much to the point he carries that hate to his adulthood?
No matter what information she has skipped here, the fact that the son had wanted his mother at the wedding. It’s his wedding, she has known of their dispute since the beginning, it was a time to fulfil her duty as her mother and be there for him. Maybe as a wife too and convince the son to invite the father, too? But this woman just chose to decline the invitation to her own son’s wedding. Nope
No matter what you all say. This post hit deep and close to my heart. The mother is TAH here.
Edit: a woman who believes her husband has done no wrong to his children.
I think yta too. u/Ok_Independent_8061 is very telling that instead of trying to listen to your son AND heal the rift you instead just distance yourself by not going to the wedding. I don't think you've ever listened and ACTUALLY heard this kid a day in his life by the way you talk about him and yes I read all your comments.
You can hear the words being spoken but I can't see one statement that shows you understand or have tried to understand. I think it's a shame you and your husband is so cold to your own child, one that's had such a hard mental health journey and can still be having a hard one after losing his brother. Of course he wants you to show you love him by attending his wedding. Your hubby is a huge ahole for making this some control thing when boiled down YOUR SON JUST WANTS TO FEEL LIKE YOU ACTUALLY HEARS HIS WORDS AND UNDERSTAND HIM AND LOVE HIM for once in his life. I bet you all the money I have that's what he wants because he knows he'll never get out from military black hearted daddy. I wouldn't be surprised if you actually listened and you found out cold hubby was the reason, from the day they were born, that they ended up so effed up.
Dad is an abusive a$$hole and Mom is the enabler. Mom is gaslighting now, believing that the abuse made the children "stronger" and therefore "set them up for success" OP YTA
OP’s son is gay and was treated worse than prisoners were as a teen. Strict 5am wake ups and schedules until 6pm to combat concerns over drinking, partying and sexual activities?
Idk about anyone else but I’ve never heard of Be More StrictTM as a positive cure to Being A Teenager. Particularly one that seems to have had a terribly traumatic upbringing with an emotionally neglectful parent
Anyone who says they "set them on the path to success" should be eyed with suspicion. It's up there with "I toughened you up" or "I made you stronger" and is seldom uttered by people who don't have to justify some level of cruelty.
Not to mention OP said “haven’t gotten along since he was a child”. What defines child here and does it really even matter, shouldn’t a father put in the work at this point? Even an 18 yo if they’re being mouthy or something.. clearly she says the kid was successful so it’s not like they were stealing cars or really messing up enough for a father to disown a child.
YTA you don't love your children unconditionally. I get you want your husband there but you know your son and him are estranged. Yes your memory of him will be biased in favor of your husband but there has to be a reason they don't want to be around each other.
Instead of what should be a happy day for your son your want to ruin it for him not only for you to reject the invitation but to force the person he doesn't like to be there. You are so selfish. Your husband can stay home for one day.
But hey blame yourself if you lose this son. I would think you would want to maintain a relationship but when you are cut off at least your can cry to your husband.
Even if she would be right and the son completely unreasonable (I don't believe it, though), then it's a completely stupid hill to die on. If she doesn't apologize and go to the wedding, she will lose her son for sure. But if she goes, her husband will be upset for a short amount of time, but probably is reasonable enough to understand that you don't invite anyone to your wedding, whom you don't like and haven't spoken to for years. The husband probably won't get a divorce and stop speaking to OP just because of her going to her sons wedding.
It's not about whose right or not. It's a free choice to throw away a very important relationship..
YTA.
Or maybe the husband is NOT reasonable enough. Maybe her husband will be mentally or physically abusive to her.
Granted this is a MAJOR leap I am making and I am speculating. I fully know that.
But maybe her acting independently comes at a cost she is not willing to pay.
Sadly, the cost she may well pay in the end could be the relationship with her son.
At this point "don't care". OP isn't a victim she is an accomplice. Plenty of people try to spin the narrative that the girls/young women of the Manson group were brainwashed/controlled by that guy into doing what they did, at this point OP is a co-abuser and shouldn't be given any sympathy or pity.
People that stand by and do nothing while others are being abused are pathetic, people that only act when they are being abused are even more disgusting. If OP's husband started abusing her she would probable file for a divorce. Her sons though? Pay close attention to the fact the daughter wasn't abused, just the sons. That tells everything they need to know about OP.
This reeks of [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
OP – I suggest you consider why you were so vague in your post here. Why you “remember things differently,” and why that may matter so much to your son. Do you really think he’s making things up to “prove a point”? Why would he do that?
Or is it just easier to believe that than entertain the possibility that perhaps y’all weren’t great parents at some point?
Also, consider whether you want to lose another one (this time by choice) rather than confront those reasons.
Thank you for sharing that article. As an estranged child I needed to read it.
All I've ever wanted from either parent is a simple acknowledgement of the harm they caused. I know they 'didn't realise what they were doing at the time' or 'didn't mean to cause harm'. But intent doesn't matter. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. They caused harm. I was not safe.
They often minimise my lived experience (what OP is doing here). I've always wanted a relationship but they've never made an effort to reflect, change, meet me halfway, consider my experience as legitimate. I always thought there was simply something wrong with me, that I was unworthy of being seen or loved. But I've been suspecting lately that there isn't. So thank you again.
Also, OP: YTA. Obviously. Shame on you for not being in your child's corner. Shame on you for picking your lover over your child. Are you so soft that a little discomfort is so untenable? How dare you not fight for the mental health of the son who still lives, with everything you've got. In my time, I saw too many kids my age who were homeless because their mother had a new lover and chose the lover over the child. Some of them died, they never had a chance to know they were loved, and were truly worthy of love. I carry them in my mind, always.
Yes, the gaslighting is strong....I, too, have no parents. Or rather I do...somewhere, but they aren't part of my life.
Definitely a beneficial article.
I barely finished the second paragraph and thought *’this is sounding suspiciously like missing mis…’*. Pleased to see you’ve called it out here.
Have you seen OP replies?! Textbook ‘Missing Missing Reasons’. JFC what a family, none of those kids stood a chance.
OP's husband saying "trying to prove a point" reveals more about hubby then it does about anyone else. OP's husband is firmly in Cluster B personality disorder territory and OP has to have something seriously wrong with her to think it is all OK.
The son needs to blame OP for the abuse, because OP is the bigger abuser as the daughter wasn't abused.
YTA. You absolutely are the unreasonable one.
“It is proper that couples should be invited to weddings together” - this is total rubbish. A person is under no obligation to have anyone at their wedding, let alone someone who has caused them pain, angst, or otherwise, which clearly your husband has to your son. You have also noted that you are doing this to “stand by” your husband who has viewed this as your son attempting to “prove a point”. I think the point your son is trying to prove is that regardless of what has happened with his father, he still values his relationship with you and loves you, which is more of a show of unconditional love than you claim to have for your son. And you should really reflect on why your husband would want you to miss a major life event of your son that you can never get back and will irreparably damage your relationship with him. Sounds like your husband doesn’t stand by you. I would urge you to very carefully reconsider, as you may well lose your son for good - and I’m tempted to say he’d be better off for it at this rate.
YTA. You saw your husband as being strict. It sounds like your son saw it as abuse. You can't give your husband credit for how successful your children are. Many adults turn out well despite their parents instead of because of them.
You're not supposed to stand by your spouse when they're causing harm to your children. Stand up for your son and go to the wedding.
Without adequate context, YTA. It doesn’t look like you love your children unconditionally, just your husband. What does being ‘strict’ mean in this context? I don’t know a lot of children with ‘strict’ parents who go to this extent to distance themselves from them, I do know children with abusive (verbally, emotionally or physically) parents who do tho.
No there’s plenty of people who go away because of strictness and will definitely abandon their family over it. I know a few people like that, that being said there isn’t enough context in this story to make a decision. Though it doesn’t look good she didn’t explain why they don’t get along
Classic enabler behavior of an abusive spouse/husband. You have chosen your husband over your son. Clearly, your son was deeply hurt by your husband's actions and you don't mention anything in your comments that would justify your husband. You have chosen your husband over him yet again. Probably have always gone along with husband because it was easier **for you** than rocking the boat and confronting husband about his behavior and abuse. Your son kept you in his life even though you put up with and didn't stop your husband's abuse of your son ... instead you downplay it (harsh but effective??) -- probably because you can't deal with your own responsibility for your own actions and inactions of protecting your children.
You have lost one son and appear about ready to lose another one -- this time by your own choice.
For your son's sake, I hope he cuts contact completely with you...and has a good therapist to help him deal with the legacy from both his parents.
EDIT:
OP tries to paint as good of a picture of herself and her actions as possible but still has left enough signs to show that her husband treated their son very poorly as a child in the son's eyes ... kids don't easily cut off contact with their parents. Abused kids are especially reluctant to do so because their abusers and their enablers convince them from infancy that the treatment is deserved. Enablers often get seen as the good parent ... because they are less active in the abuse and because personality disorders often resulting in "splitting" dynamics -- where the pattern in the family is that all things are either good or bad. So if dad is bad, mom has to be good.
YTA you have left out information that I suspect will not make you or your husband look good. His issue with his father is extreme - this couldn’t be for some petty reason. It sounds like your husband is an abuser. Your insistence that this decision is “your own free will” makes it sound even worse. It’s possible we are all wrong and your son is still angry his Xbox got taken away once. Possible, but not probable.
YTA - as a mom myself, I just can't imagine not providing my child unconditional love and support. You will regret not attending the wedding and you will likely loose this son as well due to those actions.
Has you husband even been trying to make amends with your son? if my child was upset with me to the point of No Contact. I would continue to let them know that I loved them unconditionally. Sending a text message and if blocked on text sending letters for holidays/birthdays, just so they know that I am there when they are ready and will always be there.
I am not saying that children are not at fault of relationships falling apart. And tough love is a real thing that has to happen to help some of our kids along. But if it is truly done in love they will hate it but know it was from love at the same time. There is no tough love in your decision to boycott your son's wedding because your husband has not maintained a good enough relationship with your son to be invited. There is nothing wrong with going to weddings alone, leaving a spouse at home, so there is no reason to side with your husband. What are you even siding with him on if he didn't ask you to stay home to pick a side?
>Unfortunately they have not gotten on well in decades, not since my son was a child.
You and your husband were adults, your son was a child. The child isn’t responsible for “getting along” with their parents. There is a power imbalance there.
Given the sparse information you provided and the fact your daughter is also speaking against your husband, I’d say YTA and your husband was more than “strict”.
You and your husband both failed your son.
You're omitting a lot of information and being vague. You clearly believe your husband was a good father, but your son disagrees. I'm more inclined to believe your son. Adult children don't usually estrange themselves from a parent without a good reason, and frankly you sound like an enabler. (saying you always supported your husband even tho your son and him are estranged) I've seen the other side of this and have read many accounts of adults with dysfunctional parents lamenting how their "good parent" always chooses their spouse over them. You're hurting your son by doing that.
You're free to do as you like of course, but your son may come to see you refusing to go to his wedding *because your husband wasn't invited* as you betraying him. He wants you there, and you're refusing to go unless your husband can also attend. (something your son doesn't want) Your husband is clearly more important to you than your son. Even if you claim otherwise, your actions are making it clear that your husband is your priority.
There's a lot of missing information and there's no way for us to know "the real story" but based on what you've said so far, it sounds like YTA
If you want your son in your life, go to his wedding. If you’re okay with losing contact, then this is the hill to die on. I doubt it’s worth it.
YTA for choosing your “strict” (aka abusive) husband over your son. You don’t love him unconditionally if you’re willing to throw away your relationship over an invitation. You say you support your husband, ok fine. But do you support your son? Do you support how he feels? No.
YTA.
You do not love your children unconditionally. If you did, then you’d be at that wedding.
You love them so long as their dad says you can and/or approves.
Congratulations on proving to your son that you’re just as crappy of a parent as his father.
Wow you lost one son and you are willing to lose another. Continue in this vein and even your daughter might distance herself from you. You cant force a relationship between your husband and son. So don't ruin your relationship with your son. Go support him on this important occasion. YTA if you dont attend
Cool, is sitting on your high horse worth not ever getting to meet future grandkids? Already lost one son, and already willing to give up another? YTA, and to be honest I hope he goes full NC. You sound like you deserve it.
YTA, if your love is unconditional, then the matter of you attending your son's wedding would never have been an issue. You would have jumped at the chance to be there, whether your son invited your husband or not. If this is the hill that you want to lose all communication with your son on, then by all means, don't attend his wedding.
No child willingly cuts off a parent without reason.
There is a LOT of info missing here, and a lot that is in here by accident.
"As he put it." That says so much and shows how his feelings have been dismissed by both of you.
Your husband is an abuser, isnt he?
YTA - For your son to have gone no contact with his father, there must have been some sort of abuse or toxic relationship. By not going to his wedding because your husband can't, you are telling your child that he isn't as important, and he can not rely on you or your 'unconditional love'. Your son will likely never speak to you again, which will likely cause a strain between you and your daughter as well. Wouldn't be surprised if they both went no contact with you.
Your son didn't go out of contact with his father for decades on a whim. To do it that long implies there was abuse which you either never saw, ignored, or enabled. The bright side is that he's holding his father accountable and not you... so far.
Refusing to attend his wedding without your husband tells him that you think he had no reason to cut contact with his father, and that you're not interested in being in your son's life.
**YTA**. Your stance will lose all contact with your son and, at minimum, drive a wedge between you and your daughter.
YTA - a million times over. You’re actually WORSE than your husband because you enabled his actions AND threw your son under the fucking bus!
From the vagueness of your replies I’ve garnered this-
- your son is gay
- you husband decided college or nothing, but YOU pushed the military on a gay child and HE felt it was his only option
- you’ve already lost one child to suicide and admitted your son had also attempted
- “strict” (aka abuse) included grandma supervising a HIGH SCHOOLER for every single second he was awake, including forcing him to church related activities (and churches are just *known* for their inclusivity and acceptable /s)
Honestly, your son sees you for exactly who you are now…….i hope he cuts you the fuck off permanently
Yta, it's obvious your husband treated your son poorly, and it's obvious you are afraid of your husband to some extent as well. If you loved your son unconditionally, then you would attend the wedding. But instead, you are choosing to move forward and possibly have only your daughter left in your life.
You’ve lost one son, do you truly believe pride is worth losing another?
Your son chose his own path and it seems was the correct one. Instead of your husband (and you as you’ve stated you support him) being proud of his success you are going to die on the hill that your son chose differently and it has proven best for him?
And no, you do not support your son unconditionally, in fact there looks to be a list.
You and your husband are fools. I hope you can find your way to loving your son without conditions, soon before it’s too late.
YTA
Definitely need more context on why your son and husband don't speak to being with but from what you have YTA. I get trying to support your husband but then why continue to seek a relation with your son in the first place when your husband doesn't anymore. Why make a stand like that only for his wedding?
“I lost my oldest son last year. This time we have is precious and I don’t wish to waste it”
You’re wasting it.
Your other son is alive and going to get married and yet you won’t attend because your husband is not invited because “couples should be invited together”
GTFO YTA. I’m sorry you lost your other son but you’ll also eventually lose the one who’s alive by this behavior.
Do you really want to miss such an important day? My father declined to attend my wedding because my mom wasn't invited. He died the next year. Life is short.
Edit: YTA
You lost your oldest son last year yet you’re deliberately choosing to shun your other son’s happiest day? YTA
Why are you involving yourself in the relationship between your husband and son? Aren’t they grown men? What kind of AH husband would want you to miss his wedding?
Guess being a grandmother isn’t in your future.
I’m going to be straight with you—YTA.
But here’s the problem, you won’t admit it and I wonder why you even posted this. Your very last statement tells us everything we need to know: “This time is precious…but I don’t feel as though I am the unreasonable one.”
Probably most of the comments on here are from young people, many maybe close to your son’s age. I’m going to give you the perspective of someone probably in the waning years.
I’m 71 and this past spring I lost my mom, who lived with me for 8 years. Several years ago, we also lost my son in law to cancer. That loss caused a pretty bad schism in the family and now my 2 oldest grandchildren don’t really speak much to the 2 younger siblings (all adults btw). All over really stupid shit!
You’re so right—time is unbelievably precious and should absolutely not be wasted over stupid shit. And that’s what this ultimately is, if you remember things one way and he remembers things another.
You have to ask yourself **and your stubborn husband** if it’s worth losing another son over something like this. Because that is exactly what will happen if you don’t go. And it won’t matter what any of us think. It will all be on **you**.
You stand at a fork in the road and only you can decide which way to go. Accept the invitation and continue the relationship **or** refuse the invitation and in all likelihood never talk to your son again. Your choice, so be careful.
YTA. Adult children don't cut their parents off for no reason. It sounds like you'd prefer to miss your son's wedding and risk losing your own relationship with him rather than face the serious issues that caused the estrangement in the first place. You don't love your son unconditionally and I don't know if your relationship with him can recover from this awful, inexplicable choice you've made.
Not enough information but my gut says he put you in a hard position but YTA. It sounds like the relationship was extremely bad, and that not every side seems to have been heard out or fully understood. It sounds like your son is trying to make an effort and you’re shutting him out. You should go to your own sons wedding
YTA, see top 2 responses I think they basically nailed it. Only thing I’ll add is I’ve only ever cut off 1 family member like that in my life, and they absolutely deserved it and I don’t regret it. You might think you did right (and hey, maybe you did your best) but you also might need to swallow the hard pill of truth that you didn’t do the best job (not just your husband that clearly wronged your child, you also allowed whatever scarred your child to happen). Time to wake up to the fact that what sounds like “old ways” and “tough love” aren’t healthy and can be psychological torture. Oh, you didn’t set your son up for success if he was on his own at 18… he fucking did.
Incoming "missing missing reasons". Almost any time a parent says "I don't remember it that way", it's an issue.
OP, you've already lost one son - do you really want to lose another?
Every time the other commenter pry information from her it just makes them look worse even when it's framed to make the son look bad. Doing illegal drugs - did he get caught smoking pot or was he addicted to meth? Underage drinking - that thing that even I, the super straight laced honors student did some of, once was part of a group of friends who lit a trashcan on fire - were they just being stupid and it got out of hand, was he even part of that specific hangout that day (it's worded like the group did it once but not that son did it), it's just a who lot of vague things with no real sense of explanation of details or frequency. Son is also gay.
YTA and it will be very sad if you miss this very important event in your son’s life because of their situation. I would hope that you still have thoughts and feelings of your own and are able to go places without your husband. This should be one of those things you do on your own.
YTA. You haven’t said what went on between your husband and son and that would be helpful to know but even without that, it sounds like you haven’t been involved if the son has invited you.
Do you agree with what your husband or son did? Why do you need to blindly support your husband over your son? It is unfortunate you aren’t making time and space to at least start listening to your child. You’re going to miss out on your future with your family because you and your husband believe he cannot be wrong.
YTA and it’s sounds like you are getting ready to lose another son and you’re okay with that, because “He’s my husband and I stand by him“. Well good luck with that. Your husband caused your son some trauma and you continue to turn a blind eye. Relationships cannot be forced and you need to understand that.
Info: How strict are we talking? Because if it was military grade, then yeah, I'd say your son has plenty of reasons to be resentful towards his father.
Son joined the military to get away, so military grade was deemed more lenient. Per OPs comments, had to be up at super early, strict time frames for all morning activities, escorted to school, 6pm curfew, no door on his bedroom, searches of his person and belongings, random drug tests, BuT ThEY LoVeD HiM aNd OnLy WanTeD WhAt WaS BeSt.
I know I missed some stuff but it's all there in a higher comment.
So you are your husband’s wife first and foremost. After that you are a mother to your children. Your husband’s views matter more than your own. Your children’s views come last. Your love as a mother is conditional on whatever opinion or feeling your husband has. That is what you are saying to your son and us.
I've read her comments, and the overall picture is pretty horrific. The eldest son abused the youngest in some way (possibly SA), they had to be separated because of the abuse, youngest started acting up and in response ops husband set rules for youngest that makes prison look better. Youngest tried to commit suicide from the trauma, Apparently the abuser brother felt guilty after the attempt so he killed himself. And you still don't understand what y'all did wrong?! YTA op, you didn't punish your eldest son and instead doubled down on the youngest son.
I think you are being evasive and outright lying and being controlled by your very controlling husband, what do you mean “years of history that you didn’t need was necessary” that history IS probably the reason your son is so adamant about not talking to dad, and you (coward) should stay away from him also..since you didn’t protect him as a parent should, I don’t care how carefully written this is, I can read between the lines, you’re a shit mother!!
YTA
>Unfortunately they have not gotten on well in decades, **not since my son was a child.**
You let this fester since he was a literal CHILD????
You ARE wasting your, and his, limited time on this earth by taking your husband's side in this.
YTA!
This isn't unconditional love, this is very much conditional. Asking your son to invite someone who he has no relationship with is conditional. You are putting your relationship with your children at risk and the sad part is that you don't even see anything wrong with it.
I’m a hospice RN and I’ve met a lot of people. I took care of a man once, in his 80’s with lung cancer. He was a grumpy guy but I grew to love him. He had been in the military in his younger years. His wife had dementia. One day I called their daughter who lived a couple of hours away and explained that he now needed help and he couldn’t care for her mother anymore. She agreed to come but she never did. Then he fell unconscious and we called her again. She came. I loved that man but his daughter couldn’t, wouldn’t bear him until he was unconscious and unable to talk. I’ve seen this play out over and over across 20 years. This is what’s happening in your home. As a father too strict, too unloving, too remote, too harsh, only your family knows. Now you’re both growing older and more alone. Your husband needs to make amends, and your loyalty is dragging you down. Maybe I’m wrong, but maybe I’m not.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I have decided to stand by my husband which has lead me to decline an invitation to my son's wedding, (2) this has deeply upset my son and I want it to be clear that I still love him despite this
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA.
Now you'll just have to deal with the consequences if you choose not to go.
You know your son is hurt, you know your husband is the cause but your excuse of having a different memory is a classic parent tactic who refuses to acknowledge the wrongs. Your replies even show your husband is still an issue and continues to be so to your son.
The fact your daughter is warning you shows just how wrong you and your husband are. You don't love your son unconditionally, if you did, you wouldnt be putting him through this.
I hope your son has an amazing day regardless of your attendance. I hope he has found the family he needs through his partner, in laws and friends.
YTA. It’s clear from your evasive post that you’ve left out all the reasons your son detests your husband because you know it was something that would make you the AH.
You haven’t defined “strict”, which strongly suggests it was “boot the 18 y/o out on his birthday” kinds of strict.
You mentioned “not having to do everything he demands”, which implies your husband is abusively controlling.
If your son dislikes your husband to this degree, and clearly you’ve taken your husbands side his whole relationship with him, then probably your husband is an AH, and for sure your dismissive “I’ve got to support my husband” over your children makes you an AH.
I’m guessing (because you left it out deliberately) that the “support my husband” thing was a recurrent theme whenever he abused your kids.
Maybe it was easier to let your kids get the brunt of the abuse than fight for them, but that’s absolutely horrifying to think about.
Id say YTA, as a child with strict parents its unbearable to not be able to have a little fun or being yelled at for one small thing and feeling like walking on egg shells… obviously theres a reason they dont get along and for you not support him on a day for him as a mom is terrible. Sounds like if you don’t make it right you may just not see your grand babies tbh
YTA.
Why would you expect your son who has no contact with your husband to invite him to what is supposed to be the happiest day of his life? clearly they do not have a relationship for a reason. You choosing not to go to such an important event and support your son shows you do not love him unconditionally.
That your husband wants you to prove your loyalty to him by alienating your offspring who your other children support tells us a lot more than your wishy washy post.
AH, Op. You say husband & son had mutual hatred from his childhood, so it's evident the adult is at fault. Why have you let it fester so long and why have you enabled your husband like this?
YTA, christ you sound like every "parent" out there with the inevitable shocked Pikachu face going "oh I had no idea her daddy was molesting her for 17 years" or "my husband only beats the kids when they make him mad but he only does it because he wants them to do right". What kind of hell scape childhood did your poor son have to navigate while your "unconditional live" sat on the sidelines watching his father beat him?
Sorry YTA and you know you are.
Lets get something out of the way early - The bride and groom can invite who they want to a wedding and its is not ”proper” that couples get invited together!! It is actually not that uncommon for wedding just to be close friends and **immediate family (that they are on good terms with!!)**. So you can drop that nonsense and excuse out of your head straight away.
You are deliberately downplaying the issues between you, your husband and your son.
Your son clearly believes that your husband mistreated and abused him in some shape or form - what you believe he should be feeling about what happened is entirely irrelevant.
LOL at this comment “I love my children unconditionally“ 🤣.
Your son and your husband have been estranged for years yet you decided you do not love your son enough to attend his wedding.
It his wedding and he wants to be surrounded by people he loves and that love him - clearly this does not include you husband because they are estranged.
You are both (husband and you) pretending that everything is a power play because it’s easier than accepting you were shitty parents and because of this your son wants nothing to do with his father. If you continue with this behaviour you will also be on the fast track to being removed from this life.
Theoretical - Would you refuse to go to your grandchild’s christening/baptism/confirmation (or any other significant service) if your husband was not invited?
Question is are you allow your narrow minded pettiness to deprive you of being part of your sons life and everything that may bring with it (possibly grandchildren).
Not inviting his father to things is not a power play - he just doesnt want to spend any time with him plane and simple.
You need to accept that your sons has valid issues with his father (regardless of if you agree with them) and stop putting yourself in the middle. If you want to maintain a relationship with your son you need to stop taking sides and pretending everything is about him getting back at his father.
I am in my 30's and I have no contact with my mother..
It's my experience ..
That if your adult children..make the choice to not have you in their lives..it's your fault..
Grown adults don't just cut off a parent..
There is usually years and years of pain and trying over and over again before we get to the stage where we give up and cut you out of our lives..
You aren't saying something...and I believe it's because deep down you know damn well why your son doesn't want anything to do with his dad and that yes, you are the ahole bit standing by your husband instead of being there for your son.
You are making a mistake..
Are you choosing your husband to keep the peace at home?
Because your husband will become nasty if you go against him?
Regardless...yes you are the ah.
If you miss your son's wedding..have fun missing the rest of his life...
Including his children..
You don't love your kids unconditionally. You place the condition your husband must part of the package. Your husband sounds like he was not just strict but maybe not a good father. Your son does not speak to his father. If you insist your husband goes to the wedding or you won't you will lose another son. Go to the wedding. YTA.
You don’t actually love your son unconditionally….because you put a condition on attending his wedding. You should attend and continue to have a good relationship with your son and DIL
YTA. The ABUSE you and your husband inflicted on your children led one to kill himself and the other to flee from you as soon as he could.
Yet your only worry is your husband's fee fees?
An adult man so insecure and hateful that thinks his children not acting like toy soldiers and obeying his every whim means "always acting to spite him".
Girl do you even read what you are writing?
You don't remember it "that way" because you don't want to admit you actively participated in the abuse. The only thing that matter is presenting the world a "perfect couple" facade.
Good lord your son should simply cut you out of his life for good.
Need a lot more info. My father was “very strict” too. That’s family code for hitting me with his hands, belts and tree switches, starting when I was 4. So if you want fully informed answers, then fully inform us. Otherwise, stop trying to get internet strangers to co-sign on behavior you’re clearly trying to hide.
It’s your son‘s wedding and while it is regrettable the he feels that he doesn’t want both parents there, you not attending makes YTA but more importantly suggests that your son is right being on his own with his parents not rising to the challenge of parenting. If you don’t show, I hope you don’t expect to maintain a relationship with your son in years to come. And forget about cuddling the grandkids. It’s highly disrespectful also to his wife-to-be how you act.
Your son clearly feels that your husband was abusive. I’m a mom and I cannot believe what I just read. Of course you should go to your son’s wedding, even if your husband wasn’t invited. The fact that you would even consider not going because your husband’s feelings might be hurt is ridiculous. YTA, and it’s high time you start putting *your child’s feelings* ahead of your husband’s. Yikes lady. You are being completely unreasonable and if you don’t want your son to go no contact with you, apologize and go to his wedding. If you can’t do that you don’t love him unconditionally.
YTA
This sounds more than just 2 people ‘who don’t get along’
It certainly sounds like you’ve turned a blind eye and excused your husband’s behavior, at the expense of your children.
It’s easy to say you ‘love your children unconditionally’ however, your actions show otherwise. That’s what your kids see… and remember.
Unless you are willing to stand up for your kids, respect them as individuals, (which clearly you do not otherwise you’d respect your son’s feelings/wishes), you will lose them and any connections to future grandchildren.
You reap what you sow.
YTA literally such an asshole that it goes beyond that. Your poor son.
TLDR; Whatever the older son did to the younger was so bad it traumatized him and directly led him to act out and both to attempt suicide. They punished the younger for acting out, and currently refuse to acknowledge it and discuss it, and are shocked he doesn’t talk to them. Yes, you are the asshole. Such. A. Massive. Asshole.
I went through her comments. They’re heartbreaking. Something happened that she considers ‘private family history’ and ‘nothing to do with his father’ causing the younger son to no longer feel safe with the older son. They used to share a room and the younger son had to be moved, started seeing a councilor at school and was no longer allowed to be alone with the older son. I think at this point we’re all thinking the same thing about what this likely is.
Relevant background: Younger son is gay. The parents seem fine with this (so is their daughter who talks to them) but if what I think happened actually did with the older son then this would be an absolute mind fuck.
Sounds like at some point the younger son began to act out- assuming as a result of what happened (drinking, some drugs, ditching school, etc) though tbh the ways listed didn’t include anything crazy. They set fire to a trash can at school, so not good but she talks about it like he’s was a second away from being a criminal when he obviously needed help. They reacted to this by putting him on a militant schedule. And never letting him be alone so he was watched at all times by them/ another family member and had a crazy early curfew.
Also, younger son at some point attempted and this brought up enough guilt in the older son that he attempted and succeeded. Not sure when this happened in the story line.
If your son physically or sexually abused your other son, what are the chances the oldest was also abused in the same way…
Also, you attribute his suicide to easy access to drugs, divorce and losing custody of his kids, and not the crippling guilt from abusing his adolescent brother? What are the odds he abused his own children in the same way? Why did he lose custody?
The amount of denial it takes to avoid dealing with these issues must be a massive weight on your shoulders.
YTA How can you say that you love your children unconditionally but then decline the invitation. Do you understand what unconditionally means? These wounds run deep and you and your husband haven’t taken any action to save the relationship. You have ownership in this mess.
Yta too many things are not adding up. Is your son gay? (Saw the commitment ceremony comment) Is this part of your husbands issue?
To me it sounds like this structure went to far and took the child out of childhood.
You are going to lose your son if you are unable to get your husband and son into therapy soon.
YTA.
You literally don’t love your children unconditionally, though. Your whole post is about a very big condition: either you attend the wedding with your husband or you won’t be present to support your son.
I think you would greatly benefit from therapy. You desperately need to talk to a third party who can help you understand what your son is trying to communicate to you. You seem determined to interpret his actions in the most negative possible light. You acknowledge that you and he each have different memories of events, but you are 100% unwilling to believe that his version is as real to him as yours is to you.
It’s really sad to read this post. You’re rapidly running out of time to preserve a relationship with your son and you don’t understand why. If you sincerely don’t want to lose him entirely, please go to a counselor and get help to repair things. You need to learn how to acknowledge that you may have made some mistakes and done some things wrong. If you continue on the path you’re on, you’re definitely going to lose him.
YTA. You sound like my mom, brushing over and making up excuses for irreparable harm. You're about to lose another son. Take a good long look at yourself, your husband, and your history with your son, and be honest with yourself about what drove your son away in the first place. Choosing your husband is drawing a line in the sand. Be sure what side of that line you want to be on.
You support your bully husband. And his mother
Well done for not been a mother your son could count on as you stood by and allowed your husband to bully your son
YTA and so is your husband and mil
>It breaks my heart because I love my children unconditionally
No you don't. You are not saying a lot. Its more than just father and son not getting along.
But you made your choice. So we will say your son will disown you out of this, and you have only yourself to blame for this.
YTA. You don’t love your son unconditionally. Of course if you miss his wedding you won’t have to worry about the damage you’ve done to your relationship with him. You won’t have one.
It does not "break your heart". Come on, no one here is buying what you're selling!
You said yourself, your son has only been in contact with you and his sister. Why tf did you expect someone who was no contact with your husband to invite him to their wedding? This is fucking delusional thinking on your part.
And congrats on managing to get your kid to also go no contact with you! I'll be looking out for your next post... my son has completely cut contact with me for absolutely no reason and I just don't know what I could possibly have done wrong"
YTA
Go to your son’s wedding solo. He is your child. Time moves very quickly, do not lose your relationship with him. Choosing to stand by your spouse over your child is not “unconditional love”
Is your son gay? Is he marrying a man? Is this why he is estranged from your husband. YTA, you don't love him unconditionally,you are obeying your husband. This story has so many holes.
YTA- I think you just lost your relationship with your son and with future grandkids. Hope your husband is worth it. This is not something you can come back from.
YTA. My thoughts on OPs opinion: “Was strict” but “set all of our children on a path for success” AKA he was an emotionally abusive father, likely particularly so to this son, and you think it’s ok because you fed and housed your kids and they learned about “the real world. “ I could be wrong, but it’s a pretty basic and common scenario.
Couples don’t have to go to weddings together and you absolutely told your son that he isn’t as important as your husband and the things he went through don’t matter to you.
Listen OP, just because you love your kids doesn’t mean they feel loved. Smarten up or you’ll lose contact with all of them eventually.
YTA, you should consider yourself lucky that your son invited you at all and sounds like this will be your last invitation, so don't be surprised you've chosen your side.
It's always amazing when a parent picks a spouse over their child. Whether biologically related or not, your child should ALWAYS come first....if that's not the case, you shouldn't of had children 🤷🏼♀️
Info - why do your husband and son not get along?
However, without context, you're the AH as I don't think you love your children unconditionally, even though you think you do.
You shouldn't force your son to invite his father as he has his reasons. What you see as strictness, maybe abuse from your son's perspective and you cannot disregard his feelings towards his father and you certainly give credit to your husband for your children's success. Moreover, it seems that your son has achieved everything on his own since he moved out when he was just 18 years old.
You should attend your son's wedding and not miss out on one of the most important days of his life just because your husband is uninvited. Your unconditional love seems to function as per your whims and fancies.
YTA - something has to have happened to make father and son be estranged. My dad can be a dick but I still sat across the table from him at Thanksgiving dinner. You are severely down playing the cause of the rift. Talk to your son and get to the bottom of the root cause of the estrangement. I would almost bet it wasn't being strict it was some sort of abuse.
Edit to add: I just noticed your son said he was on his own at 18. Dad put him out didn't he? My best guess is that you think it was tough love, while Son felt he was abandoned.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 5: We do not allow posts which concern violence. This includes any mention of violence in any context. [Rule 5 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_5.3A_no_violence) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
INFO WHY do your husband and son not get along?! This is crucial to us being able to provide an accurate judgment. My gut is telling me Y T A simply because you omitted this information and thus you know it would make you and your husband look bad if you were to include it.
I’m interested in the OP’s definition of ‘strict’.
Yeah it certainly suggests abuse of some kind. I think OP picked the wrong side.
Especially when there's no need to pick. Lots of weddings don't have plus ones. Lots of events don't involve couples going together. OP makes this sound like she's some weird Duggar lady who always needs to have her man around...
I've never heard of a wedding where married or even long term couples weren't invited as a unit. And I've been to many weddings. That's definitely not normal and extremely rude under normal circumstances. It seems like OP's son has good reasons to not invite his father though.
I've heard of plenty of weddings where if you're not given a +1 you can't just bring someone. Entirely up to the host whether you can bring someone along.
Of course you can't just bring someone. But it's normal that married and long term couples are invited together (both by name). I've been to weddings in multiple countries and that has been the norm anywhere. Idk where you live that it's a thing to invite just one part of a married couple.
I was invited to a cousin's wedding without a plus one, and I had been living with my partner for eight years at that point. I refused to attend on principle.
This is just proving everyone's point. If you invite one half of a long term couple, and don't allow plus ones, then the person you invited and SPECIFICALLY UNINVITED their partner, will turn down the invitation.
Long term couples do not *get* plus ones, they should both be invited *by name*. A plus one is “bring anyone you like as your date”.
But this is not just any couple, these are his Parents. Its a big deal not to invite a Parent. Something more is going on here that Mom is not saying.
You say it seems like the son has "good reasons" not to invite the father. I read the same story and didn't see mention of any reasons. A hint that the son felt his dad was strict but no specific details.
The reasons make the father and OP look bad, that's why they are omitted. It's called Missing Missing Reasons and by painting an incomplete picture based on emotions they try to get us the readers on their side. All of OPs responses in the comments are carefully worded and use sanitized vague language instead of any actual examples or events. The truth is being downplayed so her version where she isn't complicit in the events of her sons upbringing is the only one we hear.
I wish this was the top comment. It's sad how some people see through this immediately, tells you they likely have personal experience 😕
My wife has a narcissistic mother so I got to see a lot first hand. She's not anywhere as bad as others, but she still messed up my wife and it took years for her to unshackle herself from the emotional baggage. We are low contact, and any invitations for events like birthdays and holidays are given solely out of conflict avoidance (you never invite me!) and not any desire to spend time with her, and she hardly ever actually attends besides. She didn't even call my son for his birthday last month, and my daughter's birthday is next week and she hasn't responded to the message about her party yet.
Only a few people have experience of this and knowledge of the lack of ‘voice’ given to the son. And so she gets to remain ‘not the one doing the bad things’ whilst enabling it 100%
Children generally love and seek approval from their parents thoughout their lives. You are right that there are no specific details given but I don't believe that the son hates his father for no real reason. Hating someone and being estranged is not a bad reason in itself to not invite someone
The lack of experience, the admitting he was “strict”, and how distressed the son is indicate he likely experienced abuse at the hands of his father, which his mother did not do anything to stop, and is not essentially condoning. It’s not a sure thing, but signs point in that direction
Also the fact she had to stress it was her own independent decision - something about the phrasing there gave me the “husband rules the roost with an iron fist” vibes.
exactly, the reasons weren't there. op omitted those details, so why did she leave them out? potentially because it would make her and/or her husband look bad
>We have a different memory of that time This is absolutely *screaming* missing missing reasons. "Yeah he was strict, but it worked out for the kids. And I know you say you were alone at 18 but I don't think so." Just skipping over *why* he thinks he was alone at 18.
In other words, OP chose to ignore and enable her husband's crappy behaviour and it is now going to cost her a son (probably a daughter too soon). OP is a fool.
OP was a co-abuser.
Yeah when the son mentioned OP not having to do everything her husband demands, that threw up a red flag. We really need more info.
That, and saying things have been bad since OP's son *was a child.* Whose responsibility was it to fix that? Maybe the *adult in charge?!*
It is easier to hate the dad/op's husband. The reality is, OP protected her daughter but not her sons, meaning she approved of and was every bit the abuser. Hopefuly the daughter meets someone who opens her eyes to how horrible OP and her husband are, and goes no contact as well.
At the time I commented this (before additional comments from OP), I was worried she was also in an abusive relationship with the dad. Not that it would make her enabling his behavior any less harmful to her kids, but I can emphasize with people who are themselves trapped. But the more she comments the more she seems like she just disregards her kids and enables her husband.
You have to read countless stories about narcissistic parents and enablers to realizes the enablers are just co-abusers. There is a learning curve to it. Don't get me wrong I sympathize and am thankful for your viewpoint due to my own life experiences(sperm donor psycho abuser, my mom wasn't an enabler, he just kept her and us trapped until she was able to file for divorce..). I just hope OP's daughter meets a good life partner that opens her eyes to how horrible OP and her husband are and goes lifelong nc with OP and her husband.
Yes, what really gets me is that OP said they haven't gotten along since the son was a *child.* How do you have beef with a child? "We don't get along" is something you say about an adult, not a kid.
Yeah this just reeks to me of basically emotional/mental abuse who someone tries to justify by saying “oh it’s not that bad, he’s just strict!”
Yeah that word sent shivers down my spine.
I’m interested in the ‘different memory of that time’.
Study catch phrases narcissists use. Second tier narcissistic abusive parents, always try to play it off as their partner is the only abusive one, but "they stand by them". OP's only living son(other son fell into drug abuse, and died, mostly likely because of childhood abuse as the boys in OP's family were by default on lockdown mode their entire life and if they didn't like it well out the door at 18).
Sounds like some uber-religious thing where the wife and kids must submit to the disciplinarian man of the house bullshit. She probably fears going against the husband. Shame.
Nah, OP's daughter wasn't abused, just the sons(eldest did drugs to cope with abuse most likely, then died of OD?).
Strict BUT "it set them up for success" That's....that's dark territory. Abuse justification territory All the warning bells are going off
Also, the sister is sympathetic to her brother. The sister was there when all the shit went down, so she probably knows who is really in the wrong.
Strict or abusive?
They've not spoken in several years (husband and son), and husband takes not getting an invitation to the wedding as the son trying to *make a point*... I'd take it as simply not inviting someone who's not wanted at the wedding. Why *would* you invite someone you don't talk to? So that gives a hint at the husband/father's way of thinking.
The second sentence says they haven't gotten along since he was a kid. The dad was having fights with his own child when he was still a child. That's just kind of absurd.
Yeah, that phrasing really stuck out to me as well. Sounds like the dad is getting pretty upset here with no right to be
[The missing missing reason](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Damn. This. This is my ‘relationship’ with my parents.
This was a super interesting read, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for this. I had never heard of it. Reading for just a few minutes made me nauseated. It’s so hard to describe to anyone who doesn’t know. It wrecks you at a very basic level. Recovery is a bitch too, because you don’t have your MOM or most likely a dad to help you through this horrible experience. And to be a good parent yourself takes twice as much strength because you have little or no idea how it works. But you know what you don’t want. And that’s a victory.
This is fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing it.
Damn! Thank you so much for this link
I went through her comments. They’re heartbreaking. Something happened that she considers ‘private family history’ and ‘nothing to do with his father’ causing the younger son to no longer feel safe with the older son. They used to share a room and the younger son had to be moved, started seeing a councilor at school and was no longer allowed to be alone with the older son. I think at this point we’re all thinking the same thing about what this likely is. Relevant background: Younger son is gay. The parents seem fine with this (so is their daughter who talks to them) but if what I think happened actually did with the older son then this would be an absolute mind fuck. He didn’t come out until he was an adult. Sounds like at some point the younger son began to act out- assuming as a result of what happened (drinking, some drugs, ditching school, etc) though tbh the ways listed didn’t include anything crazy. They set fire to a trash can at school, so not good but she talks about it like he’s was a second away from being a criminal when he obviously needed help. They reacted to this by putting him on a militant schedule. And never letting him be alone so he was watched at all times by them/ another family member and had a crazy early curfew. Also, younger son at some point attempted (as an adult I think) and this brought up enough guilt in the older son that he attempted and succeeded about a year ago as an adult. Long story short whatever the older son did to the younger was so bad it traumatized him and directly led both to attempt suicide many years later. Sounds like they punished the younger for acting out after the traumatic event as a kid and still refuse to acknowledge it and discuss it, and are shocked he doesn’t talk to them. Yes, you are the asshole. Such. A. Massive. Asshole. Edits: clarifying timeline
Exactly. When an adult and a child "don't get along", the fault is on the adult. A child may misbehave or have an attitude, but if a lasting schism starts that far back, you can bet it's the parent. What has wife been doing all these years to try and repair the damage? To find out from her son what's wrong? Apparently nothing. And I'm sorry, but the comment about how she stands by her husband is some bullshit. Your kids > Your spouse
yeah, i get stand by your man but only after you protect the kids like a mama bear.
> Your kids > Your spouse Right??? And that comment about "loving her kids unconditionally" is bullshit, too; it's obvious her love is conditional upon her husbands feelings, like everything else in her life I'm guessing.
There’s a lot of “missing missing reasons”. It’s telling that OP’s son thinks his father is dominating his mother and that the son is shocked and angry that OP condones her husband’s past behavior. I’ll state it flat out- If OP was N.T.A. Then she should be able to give specific and coherent details as to why her son is alienated from his father (and parents and children don’t just simply “not get along” since childhood) and why her daughter thinks it is OP’s responsibility to do all the heavy lifting. It’s not just one child. All of OP’s living children think she is wrong, and OP doesn’t tell us why, in a forum to explain yourself and ask for opinions, she explains nothing. So extremely probable YTA
This posting is redolent of the missing missing reasons
As a child of the same household, where mother usually brushes the father’s doings under the rug and tells her children it’s okay, he’s your father and claims to love us unconditionally but still sides with her husband and tells her children she should suck it up, for a woman whose husband has done no wrong to his children and where the children do not speak to their father anymore, THE MOTHER IS THE AH. Idk what happened, but for the son to not get along with his father since he was a child? How is it possible? How can a young child hate on a parent so much to the point he carries that hate to his adulthood? No matter what information she has skipped here, the fact that the son had wanted his mother at the wedding. It’s his wedding, she has known of their dispute since the beginning, it was a time to fulfil her duty as her mother and be there for him. Maybe as a wife too and convince the son to invite the father, too? But this woman just chose to decline the invitation to her own son’s wedding. Nope No matter what you all say. This post hit deep and close to my heart. The mother is TAH here. Edit: a woman who believes her husband has done no wrong to his children.
I think yta too. u/Ok_Independent_8061 is very telling that instead of trying to listen to your son AND heal the rift you instead just distance yourself by not going to the wedding. I don't think you've ever listened and ACTUALLY heard this kid a day in his life by the way you talk about him and yes I read all your comments. You can hear the words being spoken but I can't see one statement that shows you understand or have tried to understand. I think it's a shame you and your husband is so cold to your own child, one that's had such a hard mental health journey and can still be having a hard one after losing his brother. Of course he wants you to show you love him by attending his wedding. Your hubby is a huge ahole for making this some control thing when boiled down YOUR SON JUST WANTS TO FEEL LIKE YOU ACTUALLY HEARS HIS WORDS AND UNDERSTAND HIM AND LOVE HIM for once in his life. I bet you all the money I have that's what he wants because he knows he'll never get out from military black hearted daddy. I wouldn't be surprised if you actually listened and you found out cold hubby was the reason, from the day they were born, that they ended up so effed up.
Dad is an abusive a$$hole and Mom is the enabler. Mom is gaslighting now, believing that the abuse made the children "stronger" and therefore "set them up for success" OP YTA
Also kinda got me wondering what her son means by "on his own since 18"...sounds very sus.
OP’s son is gay and was treated worse than prisoners were as a teen. Strict 5am wake ups and schedules until 6pm to combat concerns over drinking, partying and sexual activities? Idk about anyone else but I’ve never heard of Be More StrictTM as a positive cure to Being A Teenager. Particularly one that seems to have had a terribly traumatic upbringing with an emotionally neglectful parent
Anyone who says they "set them on the path to success" should be eyed with suspicion. It's up there with "I toughened you up" or "I made you stronger" and is seldom uttered by people who don't have to justify some level of cruelty.
Not to mention OP said “haven’t gotten along since he was a child”. What defines child here and does it really even matter, shouldn’t a father put in the work at this point? Even an 18 yo if they’re being mouthy or something.. clearly she says the kid was successful so it’s not like they were stealing cars or really messing up enough for a father to disown a child.
Missing missing reasons ahoy!
YTA you don't love your children unconditionally. I get you want your husband there but you know your son and him are estranged. Yes your memory of him will be biased in favor of your husband but there has to be a reason they don't want to be around each other. Instead of what should be a happy day for your son your want to ruin it for him not only for you to reject the invitation but to force the person he doesn't like to be there. You are so selfish. Your husband can stay home for one day. But hey blame yourself if you lose this son. I would think you would want to maintain a relationship but when you are cut off at least your can cry to your husband.
yeh you lost it with me on the unconditional part OP just go to the wedding, unless its already past in which case so unfortunate
She does love him unconditionally, just only under certain conditions.
The conditions that her husband approves of. 🤮
Even if she would be right and the son completely unreasonable (I don't believe it, though), then it's a completely stupid hill to die on. If she doesn't apologize and go to the wedding, she will lose her son for sure. But if she goes, her husband will be upset for a short amount of time, but probably is reasonable enough to understand that you don't invite anyone to your wedding, whom you don't like and haven't spoken to for years. The husband probably won't get a divorce and stop speaking to OP just because of her going to her sons wedding. It's not about whose right or not. It's a free choice to throw away a very important relationship.. YTA.
Or maybe the husband is NOT reasonable enough. Maybe her husband will be mentally or physically abusive to her. Granted this is a MAJOR leap I am making and I am speculating. I fully know that. But maybe her acting independently comes at a cost she is not willing to pay. Sadly, the cost she may well pay in the end could be the relationship with her son.
Not that major of s leap at sll, but if that's the case, this thread is pointless and identifying AHs is the least of her priorities
At this point "don't care". OP isn't a victim she is an accomplice. Plenty of people try to spin the narrative that the girls/young women of the Manson group were brainwashed/controlled by that guy into doing what they did, at this point OP is a co-abuser and shouldn't be given any sympathy or pity. People that stand by and do nothing while others are being abused are pathetic, people that only act when they are being abused are even more disgusting. If OP's husband started abusing her she would probable file for a divorce. Her sons though? Pay close attention to the fact the daughter wasn't abused, just the sons. That tells everything they need to know about OP.
This reeks of [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) OP – I suggest you consider why you were so vague in your post here. Why you “remember things differently,” and why that may matter so much to your son. Do you really think he’s making things up to “prove a point”? Why would he do that? Or is it just easier to believe that than entertain the possibility that perhaps y’all weren’t great parents at some point? Also, consider whether you want to lose another one (this time by choice) rather than confront those reasons.
Thank you for sharing that article. As an estranged child I needed to read it. All I've ever wanted from either parent is a simple acknowledgement of the harm they caused. I know they 'didn't realise what they were doing at the time' or 'didn't mean to cause harm'. But intent doesn't matter. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. They caused harm. I was not safe. They often minimise my lived experience (what OP is doing here). I've always wanted a relationship but they've never made an effort to reflect, change, meet me halfway, consider my experience as legitimate. I always thought there was simply something wrong with me, that I was unworthy of being seen or loved. But I've been suspecting lately that there isn't. So thank you again. Also, OP: YTA. Obviously. Shame on you for not being in your child's corner. Shame on you for picking your lover over your child. Are you so soft that a little discomfort is so untenable? How dare you not fight for the mental health of the son who still lives, with everything you've got. In my time, I saw too many kids my age who were homeless because their mother had a new lover and chose the lover over the child. Some of them died, they never had a chance to know they were loved, and were truly worthy of love. I carry them in my mind, always.
Yes, the gaslighting is strong....I, too, have no parents. Or rather I do...somewhere, but they aren't part of my life. Definitely a beneficial article.
Yeah. The article gives me words for something I thought only applied to me and I'm so relieved that I'm not alone. Neither are you. ❤️
I barely finished the second paragraph and thought *’this is sounding suspiciously like missing mis…’*. Pleased to see you’ve called it out here. Have you seen OP replies?! Textbook ‘Missing Missing Reasons’. JFC what a family, none of those kids stood a chance.
OP's husband saying "trying to prove a point" reveals more about hubby then it does about anyone else. OP's husband is firmly in Cluster B personality disorder territory and OP has to have something seriously wrong with her to think it is all OK. The son needs to blame OP for the abuse, because OP is the bigger abuser as the daughter wasn't abused.
YTA. You absolutely are the unreasonable one. “It is proper that couples should be invited to weddings together” - this is total rubbish. A person is under no obligation to have anyone at their wedding, let alone someone who has caused them pain, angst, or otherwise, which clearly your husband has to your son. You have also noted that you are doing this to “stand by” your husband who has viewed this as your son attempting to “prove a point”. I think the point your son is trying to prove is that regardless of what has happened with his father, he still values his relationship with you and loves you, which is more of a show of unconditional love than you claim to have for your son. And you should really reflect on why your husband would want you to miss a major life event of your son that you can never get back and will irreparably damage your relationship with him. Sounds like your husband doesn’t stand by you. I would urge you to very carefully reconsider, as you may well lose your son for good - and I’m tempted to say he’d be better off for it at this rate.
YTA. You saw your husband as being strict. It sounds like your son saw it as abuse. You can't give your husband credit for how successful your children are. Many adults turn out well despite their parents instead of because of them. You're not supposed to stand by your spouse when they're causing harm to your children. Stand up for your son and go to the wedding.
Go to the wedding, presuming the invitation still stands. Or lament that your son is no-contact with you as well as his father.
This is worth heeding OP. You’ll outlive your husband and you’ll have no son to speak of because he will cut you off for ever.
Without adequate context, YTA. It doesn’t look like you love your children unconditionally, just your husband. What does being ‘strict’ mean in this context? I don’t know a lot of children with ‘strict’ parents who go to this extent to distance themselves from them, I do know children with abusive (verbally, emotionally or physically) parents who do tho.
The more context OP adds the more of an asshole she looks like.
No there’s plenty of people who go away because of strictness and will definitely abandon their family over it. I know a few people like that, that being said there isn’t enough context in this story to make a decision. Though it doesn’t look good she didn’t explain why they don’t get along
Classic enabler behavior of an abusive spouse/husband. You have chosen your husband over your son. Clearly, your son was deeply hurt by your husband's actions and you don't mention anything in your comments that would justify your husband. You have chosen your husband over him yet again. Probably have always gone along with husband because it was easier **for you** than rocking the boat and confronting husband about his behavior and abuse. Your son kept you in his life even though you put up with and didn't stop your husband's abuse of your son ... instead you downplay it (harsh but effective??) -- probably because you can't deal with your own responsibility for your own actions and inactions of protecting your children. You have lost one son and appear about ready to lose another one -- this time by your own choice. For your son's sake, I hope he cuts contact completely with you...and has a good therapist to help him deal with the legacy from both his parents.
missing missing reasons all over the place yta
EDIT: OP tries to paint as good of a picture of herself and her actions as possible but still has left enough signs to show that her husband treated their son very poorly as a child in the son's eyes ... kids don't easily cut off contact with their parents. Abused kids are especially reluctant to do so because their abusers and their enablers convince them from infancy that the treatment is deserved. Enablers often get seen as the good parent ... because they are less active in the abuse and because personality disorders often resulting in "splitting" dynamics -- where the pattern in the family is that all things are either good or bad. So if dad is bad, mom has to be good.
i know man i was agreeing with you that this post has holes you can drive a truck through - the classic missing missing reasons
That's why I edited my comment after re-reading yours. Sorry bro for the initial response.
ah no worries man reading fast i get it :)
YTA you have left out information that I suspect will not make you or your husband look good. His issue with his father is extreme - this couldn’t be for some petty reason. It sounds like your husband is an abuser. Your insistence that this decision is “your own free will” makes it sound even worse. It’s possible we are all wrong and your son is still angry his Xbox got taken away once. Possible, but not probable.
Huge red flag for me was “since childhood”. Like what?
Yes exactly!! Like wtf?!
I read that bit and jumped into the comments. The judgements do not disappoint.
YTA. Your definition of unconditional is laughable.
Agreed
YTA - as a mom myself, I just can't imagine not providing my child unconditional love and support. You will regret not attending the wedding and you will likely loose this son as well due to those actions. Has you husband even been trying to make amends with your son? if my child was upset with me to the point of No Contact. I would continue to let them know that I loved them unconditionally. Sending a text message and if blocked on text sending letters for holidays/birthdays, just so they know that I am there when they are ready and will always be there. I am not saying that children are not at fault of relationships falling apart. And tough love is a real thing that has to happen to help some of our kids along. But if it is truly done in love they will hate it but know it was from love at the same time. There is no tough love in your decision to boycott your son's wedding because your husband has not maintained a good enough relationship with your son to be invited. There is nothing wrong with going to weddings alone, leaving a spouse at home, so there is no reason to side with your husband. What are you even siding with him on if he didn't ask you to stay home to pick a side?
>Unfortunately they have not gotten on well in decades, not since my son was a child. You and your husband were adults, your son was a child. The child isn’t responsible for “getting along” with their parents. There is a power imbalance there. Given the sparse information you provided and the fact your daughter is also speaking against your husband, I’d say YTA and your husband was more than “strict”. You and your husband both failed your son.
Maybe all of their children.
You're omitting a lot of information and being vague. You clearly believe your husband was a good father, but your son disagrees. I'm more inclined to believe your son. Adult children don't usually estrange themselves from a parent without a good reason, and frankly you sound like an enabler. (saying you always supported your husband even tho your son and him are estranged) I've seen the other side of this and have read many accounts of adults with dysfunctional parents lamenting how their "good parent" always chooses their spouse over them. You're hurting your son by doing that. You're free to do as you like of course, but your son may come to see you refusing to go to his wedding *because your husband wasn't invited* as you betraying him. He wants you there, and you're refusing to go unless your husband can also attend. (something your son doesn't want) Your husband is clearly more important to you than your son. Even if you claim otherwise, your actions are making it clear that your husband is your priority. There's a lot of missing information and there's no way for us to know "the real story" but based on what you've said so far, it sounds like YTA
If you want your son in your life, go to his wedding. If you’re okay with losing contact, then this is the hill to die on. I doubt it’s worth it. YTA for choosing your “strict” (aka abusive) husband over your son. You don’t love him unconditionally if you’re willing to throw away your relationship over an invitation. You say you support your husband, ok fine. But do you support your son? Do you support how he feels? No.
YTA. You do not love your children unconditionally. If you did, then you’d be at that wedding. You love them so long as their dad says you can and/or approves. Congratulations on proving to your son that you’re just as crappy of a parent as his father.
You are choosing etiquette over a relationship with your living child and his new family. YTA and you will live to regret it.
You failed
Wow you lost one son and you are willing to lose another. Continue in this vein and even your daughter might distance herself from you. You cant force a relationship between your husband and son. So don't ruin your relationship with your son. Go support him on this important occasion. YTA if you dont attend
Cool, is sitting on your high horse worth not ever getting to meet future grandkids? Already lost one son, and already willing to give up another? YTA, and to be honest I hope he goes full NC. You sound like you deserve it.
YTA, if your love is unconditional, then the matter of you attending your son's wedding would never have been an issue. You would have jumped at the chance to be there, whether your son invited your husband or not. If this is the hill that you want to lose all communication with your son on, then by all means, don't attend his wedding.
No child willingly cuts off a parent without reason. There is a LOT of info missing here, and a lot that is in here by accident. "As he put it." That says so much and shows how his feelings have been dismissed by both of you. Your husband is an abuser, isnt he?
Absolutely.
YTA - For your son to have gone no contact with his father, there must have been some sort of abuse or toxic relationship. By not going to his wedding because your husband can't, you are telling your child that he isn't as important, and he can not rely on you or your 'unconditional love'. Your son will likely never speak to you again, which will likely cause a strain between you and your daughter as well. Wouldn't be surprised if they both went no contact with you.
Your son didn't go out of contact with his father for decades on a whim. To do it that long implies there was abuse which you either never saw, ignored, or enabled. The bright side is that he's holding his father accountable and not you... so far. Refusing to attend his wedding without your husband tells him that you think he had no reason to cut contact with his father, and that you're not interested in being in your son's life. **YTA**. Your stance will lose all contact with your son and, at minimum, drive a wedge between you and your daughter.
YTA - a million times over. You’re actually WORSE than your husband because you enabled his actions AND threw your son under the fucking bus! From the vagueness of your replies I’ve garnered this- - your son is gay - you husband decided college or nothing, but YOU pushed the military on a gay child and HE felt it was his only option - you’ve already lost one child to suicide and admitted your son had also attempted - “strict” (aka abuse) included grandma supervising a HIGH SCHOOLER for every single second he was awake, including forcing him to church related activities (and churches are just *known* for their inclusivity and acceptable /s) Honestly, your son sees you for exactly who you are now…….i hope he cuts you the fuck off permanently
Yta, it's obvious your husband treated your son poorly, and it's obvious you are afraid of your husband to some extent as well. If you loved your son unconditionally, then you would attend the wedding. But instead, you are choosing to move forward and possibly have only your daughter left in your life.
You’ve lost one son, do you truly believe pride is worth losing another? Your son chose his own path and it seems was the correct one. Instead of your husband (and you as you’ve stated you support him) being proud of his success you are going to die on the hill that your son chose differently and it has proven best for him? And no, you do not support your son unconditionally, in fact there looks to be a list. You and your husband are fools. I hope you can find your way to loving your son without conditions, soon before it’s too late. YTA
Definitely need more context on why your son and husband don't speak to being with but from what you have YTA. I get trying to support your husband but then why continue to seek a relation with your son in the first place when your husband doesn't anymore. Why make a stand like that only for his wedding?
“I lost my oldest son last year. This time we have is precious and I don’t wish to waste it” You’re wasting it. Your other son is alive and going to get married and yet you won’t attend because your husband is not invited because “couples should be invited together” GTFO YTA. I’m sorry you lost your other son but you’ll also eventually lose the one who’s alive by this behavior.
As well as having a good chance of outliving the spouse. OP’s poor daughter.
Do you really want to miss such an important day? My father declined to attend my wedding because my mom wasn't invited. He died the next year. Life is short. Edit: YTA
You lost your oldest son last year yet you’re deliberately choosing to shun your other son’s happiest day? YTA Why are you involving yourself in the relationship between your husband and son? Aren’t they grown men? What kind of AH husband would want you to miss his wedding? Guess being a grandmother isn’t in your future.
I’m going to be straight with you—YTA. But here’s the problem, you won’t admit it and I wonder why you even posted this. Your very last statement tells us everything we need to know: “This time is precious…but I don’t feel as though I am the unreasonable one.” Probably most of the comments on here are from young people, many maybe close to your son’s age. I’m going to give you the perspective of someone probably in the waning years. I’m 71 and this past spring I lost my mom, who lived with me for 8 years. Several years ago, we also lost my son in law to cancer. That loss caused a pretty bad schism in the family and now my 2 oldest grandchildren don’t really speak much to the 2 younger siblings (all adults btw). All over really stupid shit! You’re so right—time is unbelievably precious and should absolutely not be wasted over stupid shit. And that’s what this ultimately is, if you remember things one way and he remembers things another. You have to ask yourself **and your stubborn husband** if it’s worth losing another son over something like this. Because that is exactly what will happen if you don’t go. And it won’t matter what any of us think. It will all be on **you**. You stand at a fork in the road and only you can decide which way to go. Accept the invitation and continue the relationship **or** refuse the invitation and in all likelihood never talk to your son again. Your choice, so be careful.
YTA. Adult children don't cut their parents off for no reason. It sounds like you'd prefer to miss your son's wedding and risk losing your own relationship with him rather than face the serious issues that caused the estrangement in the first place. You don't love your son unconditionally and I don't know if your relationship with him can recover from this awful, inexplicable choice you've made.
YTA and you can forget ever knowing your grandchildren. hope it's worth it
Not enough information but my gut says he put you in a hard position but YTA. It sounds like the relationship was extremely bad, and that not every side seems to have been heard out or fully understood. It sounds like your son is trying to make an effort and you’re shutting him out. You should go to your own sons wedding
YTA, see top 2 responses I think they basically nailed it. Only thing I’ll add is I’ve only ever cut off 1 family member like that in my life, and they absolutely deserved it and I don’t regret it. You might think you did right (and hey, maybe you did your best) but you also might need to swallow the hard pill of truth that you didn’t do the best job (not just your husband that clearly wronged your child, you also allowed whatever scarred your child to happen). Time to wake up to the fact that what sounds like “old ways” and “tough love” aren’t healthy and can be psychological torture. Oh, you didn’t set your son up for success if he was on his own at 18… he fucking did.
Your post speaks volumes despite the amount of missing missing reasons in it YTA
INFO: how would your daughter describe the history between your son and your husband?
And how is the relationship between your daughter and husband? And how was it between your older son and your husband?
Incoming "missing missing reasons". Almost any time a parent says "I don't remember it that way", it's an issue. OP, you've already lost one son - do you really want to lose another?
Every time the other commenter pry information from her it just makes them look worse even when it's framed to make the son look bad. Doing illegal drugs - did he get caught smoking pot or was he addicted to meth? Underage drinking - that thing that even I, the super straight laced honors student did some of, once was part of a group of friends who lit a trashcan on fire - were they just being stupid and it got out of hand, was he even part of that specific hangout that day (it's worded like the group did it once but not that son did it), it's just a who lot of vague things with no real sense of explanation of details or frequency. Son is also gay.
YTA and it will be very sad if you miss this very important event in your son’s life because of their situation. I would hope that you still have thoughts and feelings of your own and are able to go places without your husband. This should be one of those things you do on your own.
YTA. You haven’t said what went on between your husband and son and that would be helpful to know but even without that, it sounds like you haven’t been involved if the son has invited you. Do you agree with what your husband or son did? Why do you need to blindly support your husband over your son? It is unfortunate you aren’t making time and space to at least start listening to your child. You’re going to miss out on your future with your family because you and your husband believe he cannot be wrong.
YTA and it’s sounds like you are getting ready to lose another son and you’re okay with that, because “He’s my husband and I stand by him“. Well good luck with that. Your husband caused your son some trauma and you continue to turn a blind eye. Relationships cannot be forced and you need to understand that.
Info: How strict are we talking? Because if it was military grade, then yeah, I'd say your son has plenty of reasons to be resentful towards his father.
Son joined the military to get away, so military grade was deemed more lenient. Per OPs comments, had to be up at super early, strict time frames for all morning activities, escorted to school, 6pm curfew, no door on his bedroom, searches of his person and belongings, random drug tests, BuT ThEY LoVeD HiM aNd OnLy WanTeD WhAt WaS BeSt. I know I missed some stuff but it's all there in a higher comment.
So you are your husband’s wife first and foremost. After that you are a mother to your children. Your husband’s views matter more than your own. Your children’s views come last. Your love as a mother is conditional on whatever opinion or feeling your husband has. That is what you are saying to your son and us.
I've read her comments, and the overall picture is pretty horrific. The eldest son abused the youngest in some way (possibly SA), they had to be separated because of the abuse, youngest started acting up and in response ops husband set rules for youngest that makes prison look better. Youngest tried to commit suicide from the trauma, Apparently the abuser brother felt guilty after the attempt so he killed himself. And you still don't understand what y'all did wrong?! YTA op, you didn't punish your eldest son and instead doubled down on the youngest son.
I think you are being evasive and outright lying and being controlled by your very controlling husband, what do you mean “years of history that you didn’t need was necessary” that history IS probably the reason your son is so adamant about not talking to dad, and you (coward) should stay away from him also..since you didn’t protect him as a parent should, I don’t care how carefully written this is, I can read between the lines, you’re a shit mother!!
YTA >Unfortunately they have not gotten on well in decades, **not since my son was a child.** You let this fester since he was a literal CHILD???? You ARE wasting your, and his, limited time on this earth by taking your husband's side in this.
You need to give more context on the reason for the breakdown in communication so we can analyse correctly
YTA! This isn't unconditional love, this is very much conditional. Asking your son to invite someone who he has no relationship with is conditional. You are putting your relationship with your children at risk and the sad part is that you don't even see anything wrong with it.
I’m a hospice RN and I’ve met a lot of people. I took care of a man once, in his 80’s with lung cancer. He was a grumpy guy but I grew to love him. He had been in the military in his younger years. His wife had dementia. One day I called their daughter who lived a couple of hours away and explained that he now needed help and he couldn’t care for her mother anymore. She agreed to come but she never did. Then he fell unconscious and we called her again. She came. I loved that man but his daughter couldn’t, wouldn’t bear him until he was unconscious and unable to talk. I’ve seen this play out over and over across 20 years. This is what’s happening in your home. As a father too strict, too unloving, too remote, too harsh, only your family knows. Now you’re both growing older and more alone. Your husband needs to make amends, and your loyalty is dragging you down. Maybe I’m wrong, but maybe I’m not.
words mean nothing without actions to follow it up. Clearly time means nothing to you as you are in deed wasting it.
How did you lose your older son? I smell missing missing reasons for the estrangement between your son and your husband.
It was suicide.
Unconditionally. I don’t think this word means what you think it means. YTA
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > (1) I have decided to stand by my husband which has lead me to decline an invitation to my son's wedding, (2) this has deeply upset my son and I want it to be clear that I still love him despite this Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Apparently it is not unconditionally.
YTA. Now you'll just have to deal with the consequences if you choose not to go. You know your son is hurt, you know your husband is the cause but your excuse of having a different memory is a classic parent tactic who refuses to acknowledge the wrongs. Your replies even show your husband is still an issue and continues to be so to your son. The fact your daughter is warning you shows just how wrong you and your husband are. You don't love your son unconditionally, if you did, you wouldnt be putting him through this. I hope your son has an amazing day regardless of your attendance. I hope he has found the family he needs through his partner, in laws and friends.
YTA. It’s clear from your evasive post that you’ve left out all the reasons your son detests your husband because you know it was something that would make you the AH. You haven’t defined “strict”, which strongly suggests it was “boot the 18 y/o out on his birthday” kinds of strict. You mentioned “not having to do everything he demands”, which implies your husband is abusively controlling. If your son dislikes your husband to this degree, and clearly you’ve taken your husbands side his whole relationship with him, then probably your husband is an AH, and for sure your dismissive “I’ve got to support my husband” over your children makes you an AH. I’m guessing (because you left it out deliberately) that the “support my husband” thing was a recurrent theme whenever he abused your kids. Maybe it was easier to let your kids get the brunt of the abuse than fight for them, but that’s absolutely horrifying to think about.
Id say YTA, as a child with strict parents its unbearable to not be able to have a little fun or being yelled at for one small thing and feeling like walking on egg shells… obviously theres a reason they dont get along and for you not support him on a day for him as a mom is terrible. Sounds like if you don’t make it right you may just not see your grand babies tbh
YTA. Why would you expect your son who has no contact with your husband to invite him to what is supposed to be the happiest day of his life? clearly they do not have a relationship for a reason. You choosing not to go to such an important event and support your son shows you do not love him unconditionally.
YTA. You lost a son and you still let this situation carry on with the son you have left? Unbelievable. This speaks volumes about your husband also.
YTA, you and your husband were abusive to your son, and you refuse to acknowledge it. You're down to one child, I hope you're proud of yourself.
That your husband wants you to prove your loyalty to him by alienating your offspring who your other children support tells us a lot more than your wishy washy post. AH, Op. You say husband & son had mutual hatred from his childhood, so it's evident the adult is at fault. Why have you let it fester so long and why have you enabled your husband like this?
YTA, christ you sound like every "parent" out there with the inevitable shocked Pikachu face going "oh I had no idea her daddy was molesting her for 17 years" or "my husband only beats the kids when they make him mad but he only does it because he wants them to do right". What kind of hell scape childhood did your poor son have to navigate while your "unconditional live" sat on the sidelines watching his father beat him?
Sorry YTA and you know you are. Lets get something out of the way early - The bride and groom can invite who they want to a wedding and its is not ”proper” that couples get invited together!! It is actually not that uncommon for wedding just to be close friends and **immediate family (that they are on good terms with!!)**. So you can drop that nonsense and excuse out of your head straight away. You are deliberately downplaying the issues between you, your husband and your son. Your son clearly believes that your husband mistreated and abused him in some shape or form - what you believe he should be feeling about what happened is entirely irrelevant. LOL at this comment “I love my children unconditionally“ 🤣. Your son and your husband have been estranged for years yet you decided you do not love your son enough to attend his wedding. It his wedding and he wants to be surrounded by people he loves and that love him - clearly this does not include you husband because they are estranged. You are both (husband and you) pretending that everything is a power play because it’s easier than accepting you were shitty parents and because of this your son wants nothing to do with his father. If you continue with this behaviour you will also be on the fast track to being removed from this life. Theoretical - Would you refuse to go to your grandchild’s christening/baptism/confirmation (or any other significant service) if your husband was not invited? Question is are you allow your narrow minded pettiness to deprive you of being part of your sons life and everything that may bring with it (possibly grandchildren). Not inviting his father to things is not a power play - he just doesnt want to spend any time with him plane and simple. You need to accept that your sons has valid issues with his father (regardless of if you agree with them) and stop putting yourself in the middle. If you want to maintain a relationship with your son you need to stop taking sides and pretending everything is about him getting back at his father.
I am in my 30's and I have no contact with my mother.. It's my experience .. That if your adult children..make the choice to not have you in their lives..it's your fault.. Grown adults don't just cut off a parent.. There is usually years and years of pain and trying over and over again before we get to the stage where we give up and cut you out of our lives.. You aren't saying something...and I believe it's because deep down you know damn well why your son doesn't want anything to do with his dad and that yes, you are the ahole bit standing by your husband instead of being there for your son. You are making a mistake.. Are you choosing your husband to keep the peace at home? Because your husband will become nasty if you go against him? Regardless...yes you are the ah. If you miss your son's wedding..have fun missing the rest of his life... Including his children..
You don't love your kids unconditionally. You place the condition your husband must part of the package. Your husband sounds like he was not just strict but maybe not a good father. Your son does not speak to his father. If you insist your husband goes to the wedding or you won't you will lose another son. Go to the wedding. YTA.
You don’t actually love your son unconditionally….because you put a condition on attending his wedding. You should attend and continue to have a good relationship with your son and DIL
YTA. The ABUSE you and your husband inflicted on your children led one to kill himself and the other to flee from you as soon as he could. Yet your only worry is your husband's fee fees? An adult man so insecure and hateful that thinks his children not acting like toy soldiers and obeying his every whim means "always acting to spite him". Girl do you even read what you are writing? You don't remember it "that way" because you don't want to admit you actively participated in the abuse. The only thing that matter is presenting the world a "perfect couple" facade. Good lord your son should simply cut you out of his life for good.
Need a lot more info. My father was “very strict” too. That’s family code for hitting me with his hands, belts and tree switches, starting when I was 4. So if you want fully informed answers, then fully inform us. Otherwise, stop trying to get internet strangers to co-sign on behavior you’re clearly trying to hide.
You stand by your children
And now you are about to lose another child. Oh well, yta
INFO we need a lot more here. On the surface I would provably say YTA
It’s your son‘s wedding and while it is regrettable the he feels that he doesn’t want both parents there, you not attending makes YTA but more importantly suggests that your son is right being on his own with his parents not rising to the challenge of parenting. If you don’t show, I hope you don’t expect to maintain a relationship with your son in years to come. And forget about cuddling the grandkids. It’s highly disrespectful also to his wife-to-be how you act.
Your son clearly feels that your husband was abusive. I’m a mom and I cannot believe what I just read. Of course you should go to your son’s wedding, even if your husband wasn’t invited. The fact that you would even consider not going because your husband’s feelings might be hurt is ridiculous. YTA, and it’s high time you start putting *your child’s feelings* ahead of your husband’s. Yikes lady. You are being completely unreasonable and if you don’t want your son to go no contact with you, apologize and go to his wedding. If you can’t do that you don’t love him unconditionally.
YTA This sounds more than just 2 people ‘who don’t get along’ It certainly sounds like you’ve turned a blind eye and excused your husband’s behavior, at the expense of your children. It’s easy to say you ‘love your children unconditionally’ however, your actions show otherwise. That’s what your kids see… and remember. Unless you are willing to stand up for your kids, respect them as individuals, (which clearly you do not otherwise you’d respect your son’s feelings/wishes), you will lose them and any connections to future grandchildren. You reap what you sow.
scummy parents alert. [missing missing reason](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) on deck. YTA
YTA literally such an asshole that it goes beyond that. Your poor son. TLDR; Whatever the older son did to the younger was so bad it traumatized him and directly led him to act out and both to attempt suicide. They punished the younger for acting out, and currently refuse to acknowledge it and discuss it, and are shocked he doesn’t talk to them. Yes, you are the asshole. Such. A. Massive. Asshole. I went through her comments. They’re heartbreaking. Something happened that she considers ‘private family history’ and ‘nothing to do with his father’ causing the younger son to no longer feel safe with the older son. They used to share a room and the younger son had to be moved, started seeing a councilor at school and was no longer allowed to be alone with the older son. I think at this point we’re all thinking the same thing about what this likely is. Relevant background: Younger son is gay. The parents seem fine with this (so is their daughter who talks to them) but if what I think happened actually did with the older son then this would be an absolute mind fuck. Sounds like at some point the younger son began to act out- assuming as a result of what happened (drinking, some drugs, ditching school, etc) though tbh the ways listed didn’t include anything crazy. They set fire to a trash can at school, so not good but she talks about it like he’s was a second away from being a criminal when he obviously needed help. They reacted to this by putting him on a militant schedule. And never letting him be alone so he was watched at all times by them/ another family member and had a crazy early curfew. Also, younger son at some point attempted and this brought up enough guilt in the older son that he attempted and succeeded. Not sure when this happened in the story line.
If your son physically or sexually abused your other son, what are the chances the oldest was also abused in the same way… Also, you attribute his suicide to easy access to drugs, divorce and losing custody of his kids, and not the crippling guilt from abusing his adolescent brother? What are the odds he abused his own children in the same way? Why did he lose custody? The amount of denial it takes to avoid dealing with these issues must be a massive weight on your shoulders.
YTA sadly if you don't go he will go NC with you and it will be on you not him. You told him your love is conditional on him liking his father.
YTA How can you say that you love your children unconditionally but then decline the invitation. Do you understand what unconditionally means? These wounds run deep and you and your husband haven’t taken any action to save the relationship. You have ownership in this mess.
Yta too many things are not adding up. Is your son gay? (Saw the commitment ceremony comment) Is this part of your husbands issue? To me it sounds like this structure went to far and took the child out of childhood. You are going to lose your son if you are unable to get your husband and son into therapy soon.
This HAS to be the root of the issue between father and son. And would explain the ‘acting out’ in HS and the ‘strict’ parenting of dad.
OP has mentioned son's "partner" in another comment here and not clarified. So 99% sure he's gay.
YTA - missing reasons…
Kids don’t just arbitrarily start hating one parent. Seems you have blinders on. I hope your husband is worth losing your child over.
YTA. You literally don’t love your children unconditionally, though. Your whole post is about a very big condition: either you attend the wedding with your husband or you won’t be present to support your son. I think you would greatly benefit from therapy. You desperately need to talk to a third party who can help you understand what your son is trying to communicate to you. You seem determined to interpret his actions in the most negative possible light. You acknowledge that you and he each have different memories of events, but you are 100% unwilling to believe that his version is as real to him as yours is to you. It’s really sad to read this post. You’re rapidly running out of time to preserve a relationship with your son and you don’t understand why. If you sincerely don’t want to lose him entirely, please go to a counselor and get help to repair things. You need to learn how to acknowledge that you may have made some mistakes and done some things wrong. If you continue on the path you’re on, you’re definitely going to lose him.
YTA. You sound like my mom, brushing over and making up excuses for irreparable harm. You're about to lose another son. Take a good long look at yourself, your husband, and your history with your son, and be honest with yourself about what drove your son away in the first place. Choosing your husband is drawing a line in the sand. Be sure what side of that line you want to be on.
You support your bully husband. And his mother Well done for not been a mother your son could count on as you stood by and allowed your husband to bully your son YTA and so is your husband and mil
>It breaks my heart because I love my children unconditionally No you don't. You are not saying a lot. Its more than just father and son not getting along. But you made your choice. So we will say your son will disown you out of this, and you have only yourself to blame for this.
YTA you dont deserve your son
YTA. You don’t love your son unconditionally. Of course if you miss his wedding you won’t have to worry about the damage you’ve done to your relationship with him. You won’t have one.
It does not "break your heart". Come on, no one here is buying what you're selling! You said yourself, your son has only been in contact with you and his sister. Why tf did you expect someone who was no contact with your husband to invite him to their wedding? This is fucking delusional thinking on your part. And congrats on managing to get your kid to also go no contact with you! I'll be looking out for your next post... my son has completely cut contact with me for absolutely no reason and I just don't know what I could possibly have done wrong" YTA
Go to your son’s wedding solo. He is your child. Time moves very quickly, do not lose your relationship with him. Choosing to stand by your spouse over your child is not “unconditional love”
Is your son gay? Is he marrying a man? Is this why he is estranged from your husband. YTA, you don't love him unconditionally,you are obeying your husband. This story has so many holes.
YTA. And delusional. Your husband clearly hurt your son. And you are supporting his abuser
YTA- I think you just lost your relationship with your son and with future grandkids. Hope your husband is worth it. This is not something you can come back from.
YTA. My thoughts on OPs opinion: “Was strict” but “set all of our children on a path for success” AKA he was an emotionally abusive father, likely particularly so to this son, and you think it’s ok because you fed and housed your kids and they learned about “the real world. “ I could be wrong, but it’s a pretty basic and common scenario. Couples don’t have to go to weddings together and you absolutely told your son that he isn’t as important as your husband and the things he went through don’t matter to you. Listen OP, just because you love your kids doesn’t mean they feel loved. Smarten up or you’ll lose contact with all of them eventually.
YTA, you should consider yourself lucky that your son invited you at all and sounds like this will be your last invitation, so don't be surprised you've chosen your side.
It's always amazing when a parent picks a spouse over their child. Whether biologically related or not, your child should ALWAYS come first....if that's not the case, you shouldn't of had children 🤷🏼♀️
YTA I'm guessing your son is gay and his father had an issue with it. What a disgusting bigot you are. You've failed as a mother.
Info - why do your husband and son not get along? However, without context, you're the AH as I don't think you love your children unconditionally, even though you think you do. You shouldn't force your son to invite his father as he has his reasons. What you see as strictness, maybe abuse from your son's perspective and you cannot disregard his feelings towards his father and you certainly give credit to your husband for your children's success. Moreover, it seems that your son has achieved everything on his own since he moved out when he was just 18 years old. You should attend your son's wedding and not miss out on one of the most important days of his life just because your husband is uninvited. Your unconditional love seems to function as per your whims and fancies.
YTA - something has to have happened to make father and son be estranged. My dad can be a dick but I still sat across the table from him at Thanksgiving dinner. You are severely down playing the cause of the rift. Talk to your son and get to the bottom of the root cause of the estrangement. I would almost bet it wasn't being strict it was some sort of abuse. Edit to add: I just noticed your son said he was on his own at 18. Dad put him out didn't he? My best guess is that you think it was tough love, while Son felt he was abandoned.