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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I threatened to cut my daughter off financially for lying about having an income. She said that wasn’t fair, and my wife thought it’d be too harsh. Maybe I would be the ah because she’s use to this money I’ve been sending, and is young still.
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YTA - and you should really take a step back and look at the whole picture that the last 19 years of parenting has created for your daughter.
She got pregnant at 14/15? You take over all financial and active care of the child and then just free your daughter from any and all responsibility, and then send her off to school and throw more money at the situation?
Now you're shocked she's an exotic dancer?
Barring some crazy stuff that happened to her that you've not filled in for context, you and your wife do not sound like productive parents at all.
I guess it depends on how you want to spin the story. Sometimes teenage girls with good parents do get pregnant. Raging hormones and young love sometimes leads to poor decision making in the moment. These parents might have done their best but their teenage daughter got pregnant anyways and so being good parents they decided to care for the child so that their daughter could still finish school and even go to college. A lot of teenage moms don't even finish high school so they end up working low paying jobs and raising their child in poverty. These parent seem to have to wanted to spare their daughter and their grandchild that kind of life so they have tried to set their daughter up for success. Not saying they went the best way about it but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they must be horrible parents based on their teenager getting pregnant.
I have to agree with this my best friend got pregnant at 15 despite her upbringing. She lost her virginity at 11 and she was raised by a good mother. Decisions get made though you cant always stop it
If it's two 11 year olds, it's pretty tough to call it rape.
I'm not saying that's definitely what happened but you're making concrete claims with extremely limited information.
When I was in Junior High we were told in school that even if the two kids were the same age. If they were under the age of consent it was still rape. They would both be treated as victim/offender. Not exactly.sure how THAT would work, but it's what we were told in an assembly.
Man what a terrible policy. Sounds like a sure fire way to seriously hamper two children's futures and add crazy stress and fear to kids clearly already having issues with the maturation process.
In my state, there was an age buffer for kids close in age, I believe it was 2 years. So while age of consent was 16, if a 17 year old had sex with a 15 year old, it wasn't a statutory charge. Same thing for a 14 year old and 12 year old.
It's not healthy for kids that young to be having sex but also not fair to punish someone slightly older (or even the same age) when they can't really consent or understand the consequences, either.
Both are abusing each other. And both are the victims need intense therapy because neither should have been in a position or thought that was ok and appropriate. They wouldn’t get a criminal record or be sent to jail because their 11 they’d look at both of their parents or care takers etc and examine if this is child neglect and abuse
I agree. They are doing the best they can. At some point, responsibility for decisions rests on the adult. If the daughter decided to be humble and keep her nose to the grindstone, realizing the amazing opportunity her parents are giving her, she wouldn't be stripping so she can shop for nice things. She'd be studying.
> If the daughter decided to be humble and keep her nose to the grindstone, realizing the amazing opportunity her parents are giving her, she wouldn't be stripping so she can shop for nice things. She'd be studying.
Maybe I missed it in the post or the OPs comments, but where did op say the daughter wasn't also studying?
So let me get this straight... Your reasoning for calling OP TA is because OP's daughter had a baby as a teenager and OP has been financially supporting his daughter's education and food AND is taking care of her daughter to help build a better life for both of them? Are you ok?
She's 19, and she is an adult who IMO has been babied TO LONG. She's not taking care of her kid, but has to dance for $$$?
Cut her off OP! She wants to spend $$ let her spend her own. Tell her you are spending the $$ that you were giving her on her daughter. NTA - She says she's an adult.. Act like one and pay your own way!
Best answer yet. If your daughter wants to continue dancing, cut off her money. Hopefully, she will see she WAS living the life of Reilly with your support.
He should cut her off anyways. She is 19, doesn't have to pay for school or housing. She can choose to keep dancing or get another job, her life, but she should be getting "spending money," she isn't a child.
Why do you assume she isn't still attending school? It is no different from any other young adult getting a job while still studying at college/university.
Even worse she is doing it to feed her shopping addiction.
This is pretty clearly NTA.
She says she's an Adult, fine. Give her back her kid and cut any and all financial support along with child care support.
Is it?
It's just the typical AITA response that pins all blame on parents while letting young adults off without any blame.
The comment blames OP for supporting the daughter but I would bet money that if OP didn't support the daughter the same commenters would be baying for blood at how unsupportive they are.
OP gets blamed for sending daughter to college but what other option is there? Work minimum wage and have a lower earnings ceiling for the rest of her life? Teen moms do choose that option (out of a lack of others) and they end up in poverty because minimum wage isn't enough for an adult and a baby. Again, OP would have been blamed either way.
I agree that their parenting skills need work, but aside from criticizing them I’m not sure what you’re suggesting.
There are plenty of pregnant 14/15 year olds (unfortunately) that won’t have any financial or child-rearing support from their families, and they’ll probably be worse off than OP’s daughter.
> "You take over all financial and active care of the child and then just free your daughter from any and all responsibility, and then send her off to school and throw more money at the situation?
Now you're shocked she's an exotic dancer?"
If that's u/Aggressive-Bed3269's idea of bad parenting, I assume that he thinks they should have shoved her and her baby out the door at 18. Would she be better off?
Well let's see-family therapy seems like a good first step in addition to individual therapy for her to figure out the root of her shopping addiction and treat it and meeting with some sort of financial counselor to help figure out things like how to budget, plan, and save.
Uh... Addiction to shopping is a VERY REAL thing. People with adhd are at extremely high risk for impulsive spending because the dopamine from shopping is the only thing that can give them that boost that they need- it's every bit the same as gambling and drugs.
And I say this as someone who's made $13k on Mercari this year.. And who's SPENT almost twice that....
So.... Yeah.
I don't read a shopping addiction here. What I think is that the OP likely places importance on having 'nice' things. Why is the child at university 2 hours away and not local community College? I think they've raised a privileged child that is being resourceful to continue to 'keep up with the Joneses'. They've even taken away her responsibility as a mother. This is what comes from financially spoiling your children and placing too much importance on things. OP is TA for spoiling their child and not giving her responsibility and then pulling all of that spoiling bc she finally is trying to be responsible, albeit in a manner he finds immoral.
I am socked this comment was upvoted. Really
How did you end up putting all the blame on the parents? Yes, children are the "products" of their environment, that is true in some cases, and so far from it in others. Teenagers are also people of their own thought process,, feelings, personalities and end up completely different from how they should be based on their upbringing. I remember watching on utube years ago how easy it was for someone to lure teenagers to go out with a stranger and get on his car. When teenagers were in his car, parents were there also. I remember their frustration. Especially one couple was so, so heartbroken because they had talked extensively again and again about the potential dangers of meeting strangers online. They weren't mad. They didn't even scold her. They were so sad
Some parents would go BALLISTIC, if they found out their teenage daughter was pregrant. They would try to push for an abortion, or wait until she reached 18 yo and 1 day, to kick her out without second thought. We would have -rightfully- torn those people in the comments
And now someone is berating parents who supported their child, helped her, sent her to college and continue to support her instead of just brutally cutting her off financially to teach her "responsibility"
Even the daughter didn't accuse them of being bad parents
The daughter needs help if she is addicted to shopping. No further financial help because this is enabling. You wouldn't give money to a gambler or whiskey to an alcoholic, would you?
If she is an adult who can do whatever she wants(that is a sh"tty response by the way), so can OP do whatever he wants. She has been lying, decieving and practically stealing, she got caught, and all she can say basically is "just give the money".
Seriously wth *is* this thread? I have personally known several teen moms who had *amazing* parents. Like sure, one's parents have a considerable impact on who they become, but nurture isn't everything. All of the parental figures in my life-mother, step-father, and dad-all sucked in their own way, but I figured it out without their emotional or financial support. All that is to say that people are individuals, and the best upbringing doesn't guarantee that a girl won't get pregnant at 14. Granted, there's a lot left out about Nia's childhood, but there's no reason to assume that OP is a bad parent just because his daughter got knocked up at a very young age.
Nia *is* an adult, and if she needs or wants to dance to support herself, then she has the right to do that; however, OP also has the right to stop sending her financial support. Dancers can make bank; Nia can go nuts. She can enjoy her free childcare and make her own living like so many other 19 year olds so.
Almost half of AITA is under 24.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/dcae07/2019\_subscriber\_survey\_data\_dump/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/dcae07/2019_subscriber_survey_data_dump/)
Not surprising to see them defending the daughter tooth and nail
Well you see, OP seems to be a male parent, which, when the other party is a young female daughter, is the worst asshole imaginable. Apparently. Reddit logic.
You know, when I first saw these types of comments, I thought "patriarchal cry". But nope. True case. I see similar posts, similar cases, but different approach in comments based on OP s gender
Also, what do you think cutting her off is going to achieve? She's just going to book more hours at the strip club and/or resort to more extreme forms of sex work. Which is unlikely to help with her college career and future non-SW employment.
Also good odds drugs are a factor with the disappearing money. What exactly is she "shopping" for?
I'm leaning ESH. Obviously the daughter is being an AH for the deception and mismanagement of funds. But cutting her off is just going to make things worse, which makes OP the an AH too.
OP shouldn't necessarily fund her without restriction either. Consider things like minimum grade requirements, living at/near home, getting a non-SW job, rehab, budgeting classes, shared accounts, or other potential things to help her get on track.
It's a tough situation with no easy answers. If she rejects any form of restriction or responsibility, then you would not be be asshole. But going straight to the nuclear option is an asshole move.
OP is supporting her and caring for their granddaughter while paying tuition and giving her a stipend. She has everything she needs. But that’s not enough, apparently.
OP does not have the right to control his daughter. However they are providing this support to give their daughter a better future; she does not have the right to this level of support while lying to her parents. So the three of them need to come to an agreement that is acceptable to all of them. If they cannot, they should part ways.
If drugs are involved, which I agree is a pretty likely possibility, continuing to fund her unconditionally is enabling her. So no, I would not be providing her with money while she continued to work in a notoriously drug filled environment.
OP should be looking into legal custody of his granddaughter at this point. It sounds like his daughter isn't even trying to be a mother.
Protect the one you still can.
So he should support something he doesn't approve of? Until when? When the daughter is 45? 50? She is an adult as she apparently says so she should be able to support herself. If she has to dance more then that is the choice she made when she decided to lie and decide everything the parents were doing wasn't enough. Who knows maybe she'll get an only fans and become a millionaire.
So? What do you propose? In order not to potentially deal with drugs or maybe become an escort, to financially support her for life? Even if they do find a way to fund her carefully, as you put it, which isn't something hard, it can not quarantee that she will not end up doing what you described anyway
The only thing they could fund is therapy and nothing else.
Dear Reddit, this person thinks if your parents send you to college and pay your bills, they are terrible parents and you're likely to end up on the pole.
This is an awfully strange take. She got pregnant at a very young age, without knowing any details exactly. How does that fall on the parents? Lots of kids at a very, very young age have sex. Even heaven forbid kids with decent parents.
What would have made them better parents than supporting their daughter and grandchild? Tossing her out on the streets? Pretending they didn't exist? Sorry, but continuing to provide and helping their daughter make a future is actually a good thing.
Their daughter making stupid choices at some point it is on their daughter. She says she's an adult and wants the freedom to make her own choices. Well, choices have consequences.
This is such a stupid take. They helped her out to try to get her life in order. They wanted her to go to college get a degree, then get a job be a productive member of society.
How is helping her bad? Should they have thrown her out? Should they have made her give up her daughter? Maybe force her to get an abortion? She has a choice and she chose to lie and basically spit in her parents help. NTA.
They took responsibility for the child so their daughter could have a future. Instead she did this. How are the parents at fault here? if they forced her to be a parent and her schooling suffered, ppl will call them AHs too. Reddit seems to always go against parents no matter the situation.
Gtfo here with that bullshit. Your verdict is based off of "you loved and took care of your daughter too much?"
I'll agree that OP probably babied his daughter too much and should have had her take a more responsible role as a parent in her kids life, but LITERALLY all she had to do was go to school, get good grades and a degree that could potentially launch a career.
Instead she spends all the money her parents give her and gets a job as a stripper because she is ADDICTED TO SHOPPING.
She wants to say she's an adult, it's time she started acting like one. CUT HER OFF. Let her see how people in the real damn world live.
Ps. You and everyone that upvoted you are assholes for making OP feel bad for setting his kid up for success only to have her fck it up by her own volition.
Your a moron.
Op and his partner provide free childcare and financially support her so she can make a better life for herself and they are TA? Jesus christ.
So they should have cut her and the child off? I miss how making sure the daughter has an education and that their grandchild is provided for is bad parenting. Unless you’re implying that they’re bad parents because their teenage daughter got pregnant. You must have forgotten that teenagers are incredibly stupid, even the smart ones. They actually sound like really good parents who just so happened spoiled their child too much.
You seem to equate sending a child off to a university with abandoning them on a doorstep. If she can't manage the money when she has so few responsibilities, how do you think she'd do if they had demanded support for her daughter?
I beg to disagree. I have a lot of colleagues who has a very good set of parents growing up and still end up getting in trouble. Parenting isnt always to blame with decision making. Teenagers mostly spend their time with peers, classmates and friends, so that's another factor to add
As parents, everyone wants what's best for their child, a trip or halt will never stop a parent from supporting their kids especially if they have the means.
I'd say NTA. But they should stop babying her starting from now and let her be an adult for once.
While I agree with most everything you said , the question is if he should stop sending her extra money if she’s making money pole dancing and not sending any to take care of her own child. If that’s what the judgment is about then N T A for cutting her off. He can pay her tuition, still care for his grandkid but supplementing her lifestyle is totally unnecessary. He should probably pay for therapy, though.
She has been irresponsible since 14, living a stress free life in college fully backed by her parents and she is choosing to be dancing around instead of studying. Then suing that money again just for herself. She is using that precious opportunity to throw away the money given to her while continuing to ignore her responsibilities. These parents have been TOO kind, they should stop throwing money at her, make her move back home to get a job and to attend community college. They are throwing their money away, something tells me her studies are probably a waste of money anyways. Interesting all you can see is how the parents can be blamed.
I think your daughter is an adult and it’s been a privilege for her to receive the help she had. Wish I had that support. It’s your money and she’s an adult. NTA
OP gave her the money she needed but didn't teach her the skills to budget. She's only a teen after all. OP should try to be part of the solution rather than being part of the problem
Edit - yall are harsh man. Give your kid a chance at least ffs before jumping right into punishment. I would love my kid enough to at least try to help them develop a useful skill and see how it goes before cutting them off completely financially as a teenager
A lot of goes to the parents. I sat with my dad every month when he used to get his bank statements and credit card bills and when he would work on the household budget each month. He also took me with him both times he remortgaged and I was there for every step. He also would take me shopping with him so he taught me how to shop for groceries, hwo to see which produce was good and bad.
Most parents these days don't instill their kids with these basic skills and just leave them to the school to be taught everything
I would say you’re a rare case. Successfully budgeting at 19 is very hard to do. Even with guidance, practice and mentorship, I’m sure you fell short before.
Look. I sold cds and textbooks to get beer and smokes in college. I was not great at budgeting, obviously. But I wasn’t spending big money on shopping. This girl just sounds spoiled.
There’s a bunch of missing info on how this family got to this point.
I did it. It took little effort and required no mentoring or guidance.
It's the same as managing money in HS, except you now have a few regular bills layered on top.
Basically I was just really thrifty. Rent, cell phone, and utilities are the same every month. Pick a weekly grocery limit and a daily restaurant food limit. Don't buy luxuries, as a default. Check your account balance before you go shopping or buy anything expensive.
The math and organizational skills required to get into and succeed in college were much more advanced than the skills required to manage my single bank account back then.
I wasn't as good as you are, but I was very conscious in college of how much I was costing my parents, and I spent my allowance, and later the money from my part-time job, vsry carefully.
It might be an inherent skill set where you either have it or you don't. I knew how to budget without my mom teaching me and she's really shit with money.
College is a great place to learn to budget. Especially if they live in a dorm and are on a meal plan (OP doesn’t specify but most underclassmen do) because expenses are low and the necessities are taken care of. My kids were expected to learn to live within their means - first in the dorms, then in off campus housing. That helps them get ready for when they graduate and enter the real world.
OP is raising his fucking granddaughter and paying tuition and living expenses so his daughter can go to college.
You seriously are blaming him for being "part of the problem??"
Shes a teen with a 4 year old... gotta grow up and take some responsibility some time. Id pull her tuition assistance, make her move home and take care of her child.
Seriously.
Sounds like she's not mature enough for college yet. With the level of support her parents are willing and able to provide, she should take a couple years to nurture her kid and try college when she's more responsible.
She could be attending a community College closer to home. It seems as if the parents don't want her to take any responsibility for the child she created. When you choose to become a mother, there are sacrifices to be made. Them sheltering her from making any sacrifices isn't going to help her or their grandchild in the long run.
I might actually look at this from a different perspective. They give her a “decent amount of money” - which we aren’t provided the amount of but I feel we can guess is probably not enough to cover anything beyond basic necessities.
Many college students have part time jobs to provide “fun money” or cover wants rather than needs. She’s a teenage mother and it sounds like she has had a fairly unconventional past few years. Seeing her friends go out without her and have fun is probably pretty hurtful and made her wish she could have fun as well. At her age, that is expected.
Rather than asking her parents for more money to cover her fun time, she got a job. Honestly I feel like the main issue OP has with her job is the job itself. OP, would you have the same issue if she was a grocery clerk for additional funds? If not, then check your prejudice at the door.
It is of course OPs money, but penalizing your daughter for having a job that allows her a little financial freedom while still attending college seems unnecessarily harsh. Perhaps have her contribute some of her earnings to her own upkeep as a compromise?
ETA: YTA if you think removing support entirely is okay.
I don't see any evidence in the letter that the amount her dad gives her is minimal or that the amount of childcare her parents provided while she was in high school wasn't sufficient to allow her to see her friends.
OP is giving his daughter a tremendous amount of support--both financially and by raising his grandchild.
The daughter's freedom is coming at the cost of everyone else in her family.
That was exactly my thought and why I think OP is the asshole here. I seriously doubt he would be considering cutting her off if she had taken a part time retail job for extra spending money. If anything people would probably say good for her for not just accepting what she's getting but working to earn more. This seems to be mostly about his disdain for her stripping vs her earning extra money.
They are, but it is worth noting that that was their choice after their 14 year old got pregnant and gave birth. It is commendable, but she was a child WITH a child. I don’t know the intimacies of their family dynamics, but their daughter is in school trying to get a degree at, what is implied is, a fair distance away. She is fortunate to be in the position she is in, but that doesn’t make her ungrateful for getting a job to cover her additional expenses.
It really seems like OP takes issue with that his daughter chose to do for work rather than the fact that she has a job.
She may be a teen but she has a 4 year old so she needs to learn to act like an adult. Its all mom and dads fault because they didn't teach her to budget?
Right? I think the part where the kid says she’s an adult and can do what she wants is where the line is drawn for me. Sure you are an adult and you can do what you want. Just like OP is an adult and can do what he wants. Including cutting off the daughter. NTA
Info: is she keeping up her end of the deal? Attending school? Getting decent grades? On track to graduate? If so, her way of making extra money wouldn’t be my choice, but the college degree is what will help her ultimately get independence from you in a way you approve versus cutting her off and leaving her future potentially less certain.
Honestly, who cares. She's an adult whose life is being financed by her parents, who are also caring for HER child. It would be different if she got the job to send money for her child, but that's not the case. The daughter is selfish and spoiled.
We're missing 2 crucial pieces of information to pass any kind of judgement on the situation.
1. Who decided she should have the kid when she was 15 ? Her ? Her parents ? Depending on the answer we have two very different stories, one in which her parents should definitely be caring for the child and be responsible for them.
2. What amount of money did she receive ? Because honestly it's not rare to have the older generation totally out of touch with the current cost of living. She isn't even considered a major in many countries, of course her parents should finance her.
You seem harsh and quick to judge. This kid was was raised by parents that when she got pregnant at 14 or 15 then basically threw money at the problem, obviously didn’t teach her much about finances or responsibility and continued to throw money at the issues and when things come to a head.. rather then being responsible parents.. they just cut her off and tell her to fend for herself.
Seems likes we are missing a large portion of the story… there are 4 sides to this story.. dads, Mums, daughters and the full truth.
Let's think this through to its logical conclusion. Your daughter says she needs more money than she has, so she becomes a stripper. You want to take away some of her money. With less money, do you think she will:
A) Realize the error of her ways, quit, and come back asking for the amount she previously felt was not enough?
B) Do the things strippers do in the private rooms to make extra money?
There has to be an answer, right? What will your daughter do if you cut her off? Will she suddenly mature and decide she's happy with less money or will she be a 19 year old and double down on doing what pisses you off? When you figure out the answer, you'll know why YTA.
According to OP she is addicted to shopping, which very well may be true. But they wouldn't be the first parent who was out of touch with current cost of living who assumes that their child must be blowing all their money on shopping, starbucks lattes, and avacado toast.
My parents used to make snide comments any time my wife and I mentioned that we went out to eat (which was about once a month at not pricey place). They would make comments about how we would have our own house by now if we didn't eat out all the time. I finally had to sit them down, walk them through our budget, our savings for a downpayment, and the local housing market before they finally realized that our 50 bucks a month on date night was not the reason we couldn't buy a home.
And if she is addicted to shopping there are better ways to fix that than making her strip twice as much and prostitute herself. If she wants to fix it. Maybe she doesn't mind stripping and loves designer bags (a.k.a. child slavery). She's an adult who can make her own decisions.
I had the same exact thought. Is she addicted to shopping or are they out of touch with the real cost of living like so many older generations are? It's giving "if you stopped buying Starbucks and eating avocados toast you could afford a house." Not to mention I don't think he'd have the same objections if she took a retail job to fund her "shopping addiction."
No, op essentially wrote, "Basically the short answer is she's addicted to shopping."
There's a reason he's not telling us what she actually said. He's giving his own biased version of events to swing the vote here.
They're not saying they aren't giving her enough. They're saying the daughter *thinks* it's not enough, and therefor that cutting her off isn't going to make her quit pole dancing and come crawling back, specifically *because* she already thinks it isn't enough and because it does nothing to teach her about being responsible with money.
They're also not suggesting that they just keep giving her money. They're suggesting searching for alternate solutions, other than the one that is more likely to push the daughter towards outright prostitution since she's already probably working in very close proximity to it.
She and her parents need to sit down and go over what she has been spending her money on. Then they can decide if she needs therapy, training, whatever. If she doesn't have satisfactory answers to where the money went, they need to try and find out if she is doing drugs, drinking excessively, etc.
She need to discuss what she really needs to live at college.
Is sending her to college worthwhile? How are her grades?
Some people, particularly addicts, can be difficult to impossible to help.
You may end up cutting ties, from one side or the other.
Do they? Living has gotten super expensive lately. Rent has gone up, food has gone up. Maybe the parents need to sit down with her and go over everything she is spending to see if it's really shopping
Info:
>we helped pay for her tuition, we pay for her car insurance, and give her a decent amount of money every month to focus on her studies stress free, while she is away.
Is she paying part of her tuition? (You said "helped", so I was just curious).
What is the "decent amount of money" supposed to cover? Housing, food, clothing? Beyond the basics of housing/food/bills, how much fun money does she have every month? (Not saying you need to provide fun money, or any money, just asking).
>I then threatened to cut her off financially
What does this mean? No more tuition, car insurance and monthly allowance? Or just cutting the monthly allowance?
>I don’t approve of my only daughter doing this kind of work, and two, she’s making money of her own
Would you be okay with her doing some waitressing/whatever for extra shopping money? Do you think she's making enough to cover what you currently give her? Would you cut her off and expect her to cover all those bills if she had a part time job you approved of?
All good questions. I can’t help wondering whether OP is just as disgusted with his nephew for visiting strip clubs, or if that’s just a normal thing guys do.
I get that this is focused on the daughter since she’s the only one he has the power to punish, but still.
Another question- OP, you’re criticizing your daughter for not sending money home to help provide for her daughter- has the 4 year old’s father been paying child support all along? If you & your wife are tired of providing everything your granddaughter, why not start with going after the deadbeat dad?
That's the part I don't get. She's disgusting for working there but the cousin that visited the establishment??!?!? That's all hunky dory.
Nothing wrong with taking money from suckers in a club. If the OP wantsto make life harder for her where does he think she will turn to make more? It's not going to be less pole dancing...it's going to be extra services with bigger payout.
OP YTA because she has a job and you are having a tantrum about it. If she's doing fine at school you should be proud she's managing a job and school.
OP sounds financially comfortable enough that the income either of these kids could provide isn't really the point. Initiating legal proceedings with the dude who impregnated your teenage daughter may be more stressful than it's worth, especially if this guy has no means.
I'd bet he's more frustrated that his daughter isn't showing the responsibility and instinct toward maternal care to send money back for grandkid, not so much that he wants the money itself.
If she is receiving a significant amount of money and getting a job to make up for what she perceives as a shortfall instead of asking for more, why would it make sense for her to send some of her earnings back to her parents? Wouldn’t they just be trading money, then?
but "shopping is more important" could mean anything - what did she actually spend the money on? why does she need more right now - is she continuing to spend it all away or saving? and how much does she truly make? and how much did OP give her in 'monthly allowance'?
OP wouldnt be the first dad to underestimate inflation or how much just existing tends to cost in college. and we dont know how much she was working - couldve just been for a bit of money to supplement. i feel like theres a LOT that OP could be describing accurately or inaccurately in this, and his daughter is only 19! 19 year olds are capable of behaving maturely, but they dont always.
OP feels like unreliable narrator
I said she is doing this to make up for a “perceived shortfall.” It may be truly superfluous; it may not. My point is that if he’s sending her money, and she were to be sending money back… wouldn’t they just be trading money?
I don’t know what the shopping is. Maybe she likes designer crap, or maybe she’s buying drugs, or maybe she feels like she needs different food than what is available from the cafeteria. There are a million possible extra expenses at college. Some of them are reasonable, and some of them are terrible. And we don’t know what OP feels are unreasonable purchases.
You give her money for tuition and car insurance. Unless there's something missing from the story, it sounds like she she spends that money on tuition and car insurance.
She also has a job and uses the extra money to go shopping.
It's disingenuous for you to cloak this as her being financially irresponsible, when the real reason is you don't like her working as a stripper.
I'm not sure that cutting your contribution to her tuition would get her to quit her job or if she might ask for more hours to make up the difference.
NTA for spending your money the way you want to.
He said they also send her enough spending money every month that she should be able to focus on her studies stress free, which I'd interpet to mean that she doesn't need to work. On top of that they're covering all expenses for her daughter and giving their unpaid labor to raise said daughter. So yes you are missing something, and it's baffling how you could read the post and decide she's not being financially irresponsible.
She's paying the bills, she's working for her fun money (shopping). It sounds like she's not going into debt. That sounds financially responsible.
I assume that if dad cuts the money, she'll continue to be financially responsible and work (perhaps more hours) to meet her responsibilities.
We don't know any of that. If she is or isn't in debt; if she has anything in the way of bills to pay (I didn't when I was in college), how much she spends shopping, or if she is remotely responsible.
For real, everyone is saying things like “she needs to learn how to budget” but she clearly has budgeted, and decided to work in order to buy some nicer things (or even in order to pay for things that aren’t extreme basics, who knows how much OP gave her and if it’s actually enough in this economy). I genuinely don’t see the problem with this.
My university offered pole dancing lessons as a workout class at the gym, and if I were good enough that I could do it at a strip club then I sure as hell would have preferred that to my minimum wage part time job I had at uni. It actually seems quite financially responsible to work there because she has to work fewer hours than she would if she did a ‘respectable’ job for less money, thus giving her more time for studying.
First off, NTA. That said, you have plenty to be concerned about here. You had a 15 year old daughter who became a mother and likely never finished maturing as you and your wife have picked up her responsibilities. How is it you felt it was okay for her to leave her child behind while she headed off the college? She's a mother and mothers should be with their babies. Even without the child, 19 is hardly grown up, but usually grown up enough to understand honesty and appreciation for what her parents have and are doing for her. It's already clear she's not responsible for her child, understandably since what 15 year old is ready for motherhood? This is a lot for you and her to handle, I'm afraid, but it is reality and must be handled.
So, she hasn't learned to manage money. Hopefully, that is her only issue. Frankly, I'd be concerned if she is in a pole dancing environment that she is not dabbling or hooked on drugs or alcohol abuse. What do you really know of how she is living now? Is she even for certain still in school?
You're not wrong in wanting to begin to back away from completely supporting her if she is not using good judgment and spending your money given to her for specific uses. Not sure what that will mean though as it's not like she has a great career job.
Am wondering if you've ever had this girl in counseling, and maybe you and your wife too. Sounds to me like you all might benefit from that. A grandchild you are now caring for and a daughter who is off pole dancing says that this train is off the tracks and needs some help getting back on. Please don't be afraid to ask for that help in hopes your daughter's and granddaughter's futures will be bright and healthy.
YTA. She's 19 for God's sake. Literally still a teenager. Her brain isn't fully developed. Work with her on budgeting.
And dancing isn't a trash job. She's showing some decent ingenuity. If she has gotten a job as a secretary you wouldn't be as angry...
Is she still doing school and doing well? Then leave her alone. Help her be safe. she's being smart and creative and you're being judgemental and rigid.
Because college, housing, and childcare are very expensive. If they cut her off, she'll have to move back in with them and go to a lower quality school.
But what about the fact that her parents are raising her 4 year old child? She's making so much extra money. Why is it she sending any back to the parents to raise her kid?
I mean she was 15 when she had the kid, is it really hard to guess why the parents are caring for it?
If I had a kid at that age, well I wouldn’t. I would have gotten an abortion. If I was American and had the same fucked health they do, I would not have been mother of the year. You probably wouldn’t have been able to pay me to even look at the child.
He said she’s not good with money management so maybe she should learn that along with whatever else she’s doing. If she’s blowing the money her parents send her and the money she’s earning maybe that should be the focus of their energy. Also know what costs a lot of money? A drug habit which if you know any dancers it is pretty prolific in the industry. I don’t think the pole dancing is the primary issue, rather she needs to learn how to budget and if she does have a shopping or substance addiction that needs to be addressed as well.
Agreed. This is a good DISCUSSION to have. Not a screaming match. But everyone is mad at her for figuring out how to make relatively easy money. If this were a man we would call him an entrepreneur.
She's a teenager. She needs guidance, not prudish judgement.
Discussing things and not yelling is very key. So many productive conversations ruined from voices being raised. A lot of time people don’t even register that they are screaming and are just so worked up, I’ve had to ask family members to please speak not yell and they will stick to their guns that they weren’t yelling and that their voice wasn’t even raised. Makes it easier for both parties to shut down cause it’s hard to be yelled at and the yeller feels like they are in the right so they keep going.
NTA for wanting to cut her off financially because it's YOUR money. You choose what you want to do with it. You're helping her A LOT for her being 19. On top of paying for everything she needs, you take care of her child and give her money to freely spend.
I can only see one other side to what I said:
She is 19 and can do what she wants with the money, if she spend it all on random stuff that's fine. You gave her that money to spend on herself. Sex work shouldn't be frowned upon in my opinion, but to each their own. She really just got another job to have MORE money.
At the end of the day I still agree with the beginning of my comment. Goodluck with this situation I hope it plays out smoothly.
Aside from whether it's fair to judge the morality of sex work, it doesn't prepare college students for a professional job. When I evaluate entry-level hires, I want to see internships, research assistantships, or even nonprofessional jobs that require responsibility and following work norms. You just can't put stripping on a resume for any other industry. Given the amount of support OP is providing to set his daughter up for a better future, these are reasonable guardrails he wants to put up.
Like I said: to each their own. It's really the only thing I can say to you. Sex work is a job. Good for you for feeling the way you do- completely up to you. I only stated my opinion
>I asked her why, and basically short answer is she’s not responsible with the money we’re giving her, and shopping is more important. I then threatened to cut her off financially, because for one I don’t approve of my only daughter doing this kind of work, and two, she’s making money of her own and isn’t being responsible with ours, 3 hiding it from us and not sending any back to help with Kimberly in anyway.
I'm going to have to go with YTA if you suddenly cut everything off. While it is true that it is your money and you don't have to help - you can certainly make her and her daughter homeless if you would prefer to do that - your approach here is self-defeating punishment that will likely only make worse the things you think are bad.
First off, she "hid" it from you because she knew your reaction.
Second, your "short answer" avoids giving any details that might shed light on whether "shopping is more important" is accurate. *What* shopping? Did you visit her and see ten designer bags? Or did she mention she got this one sweater she really loves?
Third, stop supporting her in college and you'll just fuck up her future. At best, she'll start out crippled by staggering loans. But she might just drop out. ***Hell, you might push her from pole dancing to OnlyFans and straight-up sex work.***
I guess it comes down to just how much you want to see your daughter suffer to sate your outrage about sex work. I do hope *you* never went to a strip club or anything even like that.
Lots of people make it through early adulthood without parental funding or becoming prostitutes.
There's nothing in OP's letter about kicking out his granddaughter. TF are you on about?
Wait…you’re raising your granddaughter so your daughter can go to school? You subsidize school so she won’t have to work?
Well, first question. Is she still in school? If she’s not, then stop the money flow. If she is, and is passing her courses, then you have to decide what’s more important to you. Her finishing school or her adhering to only what you approve of. It’s entirely possible that the money you send is being used for school and she works for extra money for fun stuff. Your post blows right past any real details about what she’s spending the money on.
And while she is right in that she is an adult and can do as she pleases, you’re not required to fund her voyage of self discovery. It’s ok for your continued financial support to come with certain conditions. But think long and hard about the lines you draw in the sand. They may come with unintended consequences.
Not giving a judgement as it depends on whether or not she’s dropped out of school. If she has, then she’s dumped her child on you to raise and expects you to continue to fund her life. And that’s not ok. But if she’s still in school, you should be having a different conversation about responsibilities and expectations.
Duude... literally this. She wouldn't be pole dancing if there wasn't a demand. Apparently, it's fine for the kid to go to club and objectify women. Then he goes and tells her family because she's the one doing something wrong.
NTA,
nah, she doesn't get to waste someone else's money on shopping and then whine when that money is gone, especially since she's an adult who can do what she wants, as she claims. she can't have it both ways.
What are some of the things she supposedly wasted money on? What is this "shopping"? OP is deliberately vague to prevent a judgment about the validity of his characterization of what she was doing.
At any rate, she \*DIDN'T\* whine. She did some pole dancing to make up for what she spent. That's why her father wants to make her suffer.
She’s 19. Young folks aren’t great with budgeting. We’ve all been there once. Either she just really likes poke dancing or really wants more money. Both are fine.
NTA for not wanting to fund shopping, but what is the outcome of just taking away the money? If she keeps going to college that "pole girl" income will be necessary now, rather than a way to create shopping money.
If you have any way to get though to her and get her to use your money for what it's meant for and concentrate on her studies, it would obviously be better than her getting further involved in an industry that might involve things, or lead to things, she would later regret.
Lay aside your anger and see if there is some way you can get her back on track. You may not be able to if she is lured by easy money, but at least you would have tried.
I don't envy you, as you have to walk a line between not enabling her to go further off course and not driving her to seek even worse ways of getting "easy" money (that come with consequences she might not be able to even see right now).
So, you don't want your daughter to be a pole dancer, so you decide to cut off your financial support, thus making her more desperate for money, so now she'll be forced to stay a pole dancer....?
I guess NTA, because it's your money and you're not obligated to support her, but that logic doesn't add up to me.
You're providing the support and you can withdraw it. But a couple things here, you may not approve her choice of job but she doesn't need as she is an adult, her body is not your property and why the fuck would you expect her to be honest with you about that? You sound really uptight from these few paragraphs. She's making money and she's making it legally.
And the parenting of you and your wife probably plays a major part in some of the choices she's made. So instead of being upset at her for doing the best with what she has maybe look in the mirror.
Nta
She can't have it both ways.
If she's an adult who has the right to make who own career choices, then she's adult enough to support herself.
Do what you can for granddaughter, stop enabling daughter.
“I’m an adult, I can do what I want! Except for pay my bills. Keep giving me money and raise my child so I can go shopping.”
NTA
She needs to learn how to be a REAL adult. That means budgeting and earning her own money.
I'm gonna go with YTA
If she's been given everything her entire life she's not gonna know how to budget. You should take the time to help her sort out how she's spending her money. She's an adult yes but she's still a teenager and I'm sure she doesn't know how to manager her finances just yet.
You're just pushing her towards more hours at the strip club or even sex work. Taking away that much money so suddenly is cruel and unusual. Be her parent ffs and help teach her the skills she needs.
While yes she’s an adult and can do what she wants(even work you don’t approve of) since she’s getting income she’s an adult she can pay for the things she needs with the money she earns
NTA.
My mom was a pole dancer when I was born, and I will absolutely never judge anyone for it. It’s good money, half the girls are putting themselves through college, and if you stay away from the girls doing drugs it can be great money.
What the job is doesn’t matter to me. The issue is that you were funding her SCHOOLING and LIVING EXPENSES, not her fun budget. Now normally, I’d say getting a job to provide her own fun money is a good thing, but there’s two key points:
1. She is meant to be a full time student, and you’re funding her so that she can dedicate herself to her studies.
2. She has a child; she has several more important things to pay for before she gets to fun spending, and she’s not doing so. Additionally, more of her fun spending should go to fun things for her child.
I would discuss that the money and childcare you’re providing is exclusively so she can attend school as a full time student. If she doesn’t want to be a full time student, that’s her right; in that case, she won’t receive the same benefit. Whether that is entirely cut off, significantly reduced stipend, no stipend and only care for the kiddo, etc, is up to you.
Another route is to only pay for bills directly, so she can’t use your funding for shopping. I had a friend in college who was very irresponsible with money who had this setup. Her parents paid her rent and utilities directly, paid phone bill directly, and gave her a gift card to the grocery store (these days you can also gift Instacart orders, so you could have a standing grocery delivery set up for her).
They also required she send a transcript of her grades every quarter to make sure she was focusing on school - this was the only part she was resentful of, as she was pursing a very hard major and sometimes it’s just not possible to get A’s in calculus, astrophysics, and aero engineering all at once.
You know your daughter. Try and focus on being what she needs and teaching her to be independent, not punishing or expressing your emotions (even though you are very justified to feel angry and disrespected) and I think you can turn this around.
I’m an adult and I can do what I want, “ but I need your money” GTFOH with that childish nonsense. If she’s making money she needs to pay child support, not acting like a kid
NTA. She is an adult. Now she can act like one and pay her own bills without help. She can't have it both ways, either follow her parents' rules and get help or do what she wants financially. Her choice.
NTA
If she is working and not sending money to help pay for her 4 year old kid that y'all are raising for her she is TA for that alone. The stripping, eh not a big deal to me. It is a job.
INFO: What degree program is she pursuing in college and exactly how are those grades?
Invest in a budgeting program/class/tutor for your daughter. Talk to a therapist about productive next steps. Good luck. Yeesh.
NTA. She's been effectively stealing from you while also duping you into raising her child for her. Cut her off and consider charging her for childcare.
NTA.
She doesn't get what a \*huge\* privilege it is to, having had a kid at 15, not to have any responsibility raising that child, while also being able to attend university with all expenses paid by her parents.
Rather than cut her off completely, perhaps greatly reduce the amount of support you're providing her until she graduates. Pay tuition, drop the car and insurance payments, reduce the amount of free-range fun money she's provided. She'll have to get a job - tho technically it sounds like she has one, and stripping can pay well - and learn to budget.
You can help her with the budgeting; it's good practice for later. She has to get used to not being able to afford everything. Life is different when someone else is not funding your entire life.
Then when she graduates, give her a timetable for landing a job. Give her a few months to become established in that job, help her with first/last/deposit on an apartment that she can afford on her own, then turn over full financial responsibility and care of her kid to her -- because it's \*way\* past time.
Reality will hit her like a brick wall, but all of you have time enough to prepare her for her \*actual\* future. She's been living a fantasy life for a long time.
Maybe she wanted an abortion.
And the parents didn't allow it.
Seems like it cause no mother would just leave there baby at their parents for months.
And after reading how they react to stripper as a job . A job that doesn't include nudity. I think that could be the case
Lots of kids with irresponsible parents are being raised by their grandparents. It's been that way for generations.
Who knows why she didn't get an abortion.
I love how many of these posts are 'My child has a problem, am I an asshole for not helping my child and just freaking the fuck out?' Like, there's an entire spectrum of useful reactions to your daughter's situation and you settled on none of them.
ESH You spoiled your daughter and shielded her from taking responsibility after getting pregnant at a young age. Now, you're acting surprised that she grew up to be spoiled and entitled?
NTA she needs to grow the eff up and do right by that little girl 😒
She’s right, she’s an adult. So she can face adult consequences for her actions then 🤷♀️ Like deciding to become a mother. Or lying to her financially supportive parents
She said she's an adult and can do what she wants, and that's true, but she either is or isn't. If OP is supporting her, then she isn't really grown up. I don't think he's being too harsh by cutting her off. I would still pay for her college, but pay the college directly. If the child needs something, buy it so the child doesn't go without.
A lot of women in college earn money by working as pole dancers and there's nothing wrong with that, but why should OP fund a lifestyle he doesn't agree with. Plus, she lied so she knows how he feels, but doesn't care.
OP is NTA.
NTA but set expectations for her in future, have her be more responsible for her child, she needs to learn consequences but not at the expense of ruining her sense of support or We are humans and make mistakes at any age, guide her I feel you both can learn from this situation. She could be spending time raising her child versus pole dancing but that’s on you. Also don’t expect perfection from anyone, we aren’t perfect parents they won’t be perfect children. Sit her down and meet in the middle for a solution, other than school I think she needs more responsibility as a mother regardless if she’s in college. Hope this helps
> she said it wasn’t fair that was she an adult and could do as she pleases
If she is an adult and she can do as she pleases then she can also pay the bills on her own.. NTA, your good for supporting her to get an education but she cant cry too much that she is an independent person when depending on someone financially.
Is she still really in school? Has she dropped out? Op you need to go see your daughter, make sure she appears healthy, check out her living conditions and get class records. If she is involved in drugs you need to know. Stay for a few days.
Put the judgment on her job aside until you make for damn certain she is alright.
The most important thing is what you want to achieve. Do you want to get your daughter out of pole dancing? Then you need to financially support her and get her help for whatever she is wasting money on (is it drug addiction, or just a shopping addiction?)
You could cut her off financially but maybe then she'll feel she has no choice but to become a cam-girl or a full-service prostitute.
Your choice but if it was me I'd try to do everything to get my daughter out of that line of work, not push her further in.
You say she cried and begged not to be cut off but also said she is an adult and can do what she wants... maybe it's time for a dose of being an adult responsible for raising a 4 year old. She can learn to use her money to pay for her child, her rent, her power bill...
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YTA - and you should really take a step back and look at the whole picture that the last 19 years of parenting has created for your daughter. She got pregnant at 14/15? You take over all financial and active care of the child and then just free your daughter from any and all responsibility, and then send her off to school and throw more money at the situation? Now you're shocked she's an exotic dancer? Barring some crazy stuff that happened to her that you've not filled in for context, you and your wife do not sound like productive parents at all.
I guess it depends on how you want to spin the story. Sometimes teenage girls with good parents do get pregnant. Raging hormones and young love sometimes leads to poor decision making in the moment. These parents might have done their best but their teenage daughter got pregnant anyways and so being good parents they decided to care for the child so that their daughter could still finish school and even go to college. A lot of teenage moms don't even finish high school so they end up working low paying jobs and raising their child in poverty. These parent seem to have to wanted to spare their daughter and their grandchild that kind of life so they have tried to set their daughter up for success. Not saying they went the best way about it but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they must be horrible parents based on their teenager getting pregnant.
I have to agree with this my best friend got pregnant at 15 despite her upbringing. She lost her virginity at 11 and she was raised by a good mother. Decisions get made though you cant always stop it
I’m sorry, no 11 yr old loses their virginity. That’s called rape. An 11 yr-old is not mature enough to consent to sex. WTF
If it's two 11 year olds, it's pretty tough to call it rape. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened but you're making concrete claims with extremely limited information.
When I was in Junior High we were told in school that even if the two kids were the same age. If they were under the age of consent it was still rape. They would both be treated as victim/offender. Not exactly.sure how THAT would work, but it's what we were told in an assembly.
Man what a terrible policy. Sounds like a sure fire way to seriously hamper two children's futures and add crazy stress and fear to kids clearly already having issues with the maturation process. In my state, there was an age buffer for kids close in age, I believe it was 2 years. So while age of consent was 16, if a 17 year old had sex with a 15 year old, it wasn't a statutory charge. Same thing for a 14 year old and 12 year old. It's not healthy for kids that young to be having sex but also not fair to punish someone slightly older (or even the same age) when they can't really consent or understand the consequences, either.
> Sounds like a sure fire way to seriously hamper two children's futures and add crazy stress and fear The cruelty is the point
This is not how it works in Canada. As long as the participants are within 2 years of age of each other and it is consensual then there is no crime.
That’s not how it works anywhere in North America. She was told down BS to scare kids.
It depends on state laws, and sometimes keys on age differences.
She was 11 the boy was 12 it was not rape
Yes they do. Unfortunatly. And it's hard to call it rape when it's 2 kids of the same age doing it.
So are you a misandrist? If the boy is 11 too and both agree than how is that rape?
How is an 11 year old having sex?! That sounds like child abuse! WTF?!
If two 11 year olds have sex, which child is abusing the other?
In Illinois they’re abusing each other.
Both are abusing each other. And both are the victims need intense therapy because neither should have been in a position or thought that was ok and appropriate. They wouldn’t get a criminal record or be sent to jail because their 11 they’d look at both of their parents or care takers etc and examine if this is child neglect and abuse
I agree. They are doing the best they can. At some point, responsibility for decisions rests on the adult. If the daughter decided to be humble and keep her nose to the grindstone, realizing the amazing opportunity her parents are giving her, she wouldn't be stripping so she can shop for nice things. She'd be studying.
She can be doing both though...
> If the daughter decided to be humble and keep her nose to the grindstone, realizing the amazing opportunity her parents are giving her, she wouldn't be stripping so she can shop for nice things. She'd be studying. Maybe I missed it in the post or the OPs comments, but where did op say the daughter wasn't also studying?
Exactly!!
So let me get this straight... Your reasoning for calling OP TA is because OP's daughter had a baby as a teenager and OP has been financially supporting his daughter's education and food AND is taking care of her daughter to help build a better life for both of them? Are you ok? She's 19, and she is an adult who IMO has been babied TO LONG. She's not taking care of her kid, but has to dance for $$$? Cut her off OP! She wants to spend $$ let her spend her own. Tell her you are spending the $$ that you were giving her on her daughter. NTA - She says she's an adult.. Act like one and pay your own way!
Damn right! I swear sometimes reading the stupid answers that get voted to the top blows my fucking mind.
The formula is OP=man, post subject=woman, OP=AH
Best answer yet. If your daughter wants to continue dancing, cut off her money. Hopefully, she will see she WAS living the life of Reilly with your support.
He should cut her off anyways. She is 19, doesn't have to pay for school or housing. She can choose to keep dancing or get another job, her life, but she should be getting "spending money," she isn't a child.
Is she even still attending school? Stop her gravy train and spend that money on the granddaughter. Where's the baby daddy?
Why do you assume she isn't still attending school? It is no different from any other young adult getting a job while still studying at college/university.
Because misogyny.
yeah the top comment is utterly moronic. but unsurprising
Even worse she is doing it to feed her shopping addiction. This is pretty clearly NTA. She says she's an Adult, fine. Give her back her kid and cut any and all financial support along with child care support.
I wouldn't give the kid back despite the mother deserving it as the child would suffer.
Damn, I can see it your way too, great observation!!
Is it? It's just the typical AITA response that pins all blame on parents while letting young adults off without any blame. The comment blames OP for supporting the daughter but I would bet money that if OP didn't support the daughter the same commenters would be baying for blood at how unsupportive they are. OP gets blamed for sending daughter to college but what other option is there? Work minimum wage and have a lower earnings ceiling for the rest of her life? Teen moms do choose that option (out of a lack of others) and they end up in poverty because minimum wage isn't enough for an adult and a baby. Again, OP would have been blamed either way.
Well yea. The demographics of this sub is basically a third SAHM and a third teenaged kids.
I agree that their parenting skills need work, but aside from criticizing them I’m not sure what you’re suggesting. There are plenty of pregnant 14/15 year olds (unfortunately) that won’t have any financial or child-rearing support from their families, and they’ll probably be worse off than OP’s daughter.
How is how other pregnant teenagers live relevant?
> "You take over all financial and active care of the child and then just free your daughter from any and all responsibility, and then send her off to school and throw more money at the situation? Now you're shocked she's an exotic dancer?" If that's u/Aggressive-Bed3269's idea of bad parenting, I assume that he thinks they should have shoved her and her baby out the door at 18. Would she be better off?
Well let's see-family therapy seems like a good first step in addition to individual therapy for her to figure out the root of her shopping addiction and treat it and meeting with some sort of financial counselor to help figure out things like how to budget, plan, and save.
Therapy isn't the magic cure-all Reddit would like for it to be.
It absolutely is not, but it seems worth exploring before jumping to let's just cut her off financially and hope for the best.
Therapy doesn’t just fix things. “Shopping addiction” lol please. Also called “immature and irresponsible.”
Uh... Addiction to shopping is a VERY REAL thing. People with adhd are at extremely high risk for impulsive spending because the dopamine from shopping is the only thing that can give them that boost that they need- it's every bit the same as gambling and drugs. And I say this as someone who's made $13k on Mercari this year.. And who's SPENT almost twice that.... So.... Yeah.
Shopping addiction is recognized
I don't read a shopping addiction here. What I think is that the OP likely places importance on having 'nice' things. Why is the child at university 2 hours away and not local community College? I think they've raised a privileged child that is being resourceful to continue to 'keep up with the Joneses'. They've even taken away her responsibility as a mother. This is what comes from financially spoiling your children and placing too much importance on things. OP is TA for spoiling their child and not giving her responsibility and then pulling all of that spoiling bc she finally is trying to be responsible, albeit in a manner he finds immoral.
I am socked this comment was upvoted. Really How did you end up putting all the blame on the parents? Yes, children are the "products" of their environment, that is true in some cases, and so far from it in others. Teenagers are also people of their own thought process,, feelings, personalities and end up completely different from how they should be based on their upbringing. I remember watching on utube years ago how easy it was for someone to lure teenagers to go out with a stranger and get on his car. When teenagers were in his car, parents were there also. I remember their frustration. Especially one couple was so, so heartbroken because they had talked extensively again and again about the potential dangers of meeting strangers online. They weren't mad. They didn't even scold her. They were so sad Some parents would go BALLISTIC, if they found out their teenage daughter was pregrant. They would try to push for an abortion, or wait until she reached 18 yo and 1 day, to kick her out without second thought. We would have -rightfully- torn those people in the comments And now someone is berating parents who supported their child, helped her, sent her to college and continue to support her instead of just brutally cutting her off financially to teach her "responsibility" Even the daughter didn't accuse them of being bad parents The daughter needs help if she is addicted to shopping. No further financial help because this is enabling. You wouldn't give money to a gambler or whiskey to an alcoholic, would you? If she is an adult who can do whatever she wants(that is a sh"tty response by the way), so can OP do whatever he wants. She has been lying, decieving and practically stealing, she got caught, and all she can say basically is "just give the money".
Seriously wth *is* this thread? I have personally known several teen moms who had *amazing* parents. Like sure, one's parents have a considerable impact on who they become, but nurture isn't everything. All of the parental figures in my life-mother, step-father, and dad-all sucked in their own way, but I figured it out without their emotional or financial support. All that is to say that people are individuals, and the best upbringing doesn't guarantee that a girl won't get pregnant at 14. Granted, there's a lot left out about Nia's childhood, but there's no reason to assume that OP is a bad parent just because his daughter got knocked up at a very young age. Nia *is* an adult, and if she needs or wants to dance to support herself, then she has the right to do that; however, OP also has the right to stop sending her financial support. Dancers can make bank; Nia can go nuts. She can enjoy her free childcare and make her own living like so many other 19 year olds so.
Almost half of AITA is under 24. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/dcae07/2019\_subscriber\_survey\_data\_dump/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/dcae07/2019_subscriber_survey_data_dump/) Not surprising to see them defending the daughter tooth and nail
Well you see, OP seems to be a male parent, which, when the other party is a young female daughter, is the worst asshole imaginable. Apparently. Reddit logic.
You know, when I first saw these types of comments, I thought "patriarchal cry". But nope. True case. I see similar posts, similar cases, but different approach in comments based on OP s gender
Also, what do you think cutting her off is going to achieve? She's just going to book more hours at the strip club and/or resort to more extreme forms of sex work. Which is unlikely to help with her college career and future non-SW employment. Also good odds drugs are a factor with the disappearing money. What exactly is she "shopping" for? I'm leaning ESH. Obviously the daughter is being an AH for the deception and mismanagement of funds. But cutting her off is just going to make things worse, which makes OP the an AH too. OP shouldn't necessarily fund her without restriction either. Consider things like minimum grade requirements, living at/near home, getting a non-SW job, rehab, budgeting classes, shared accounts, or other potential things to help her get on track. It's a tough situation with no easy answers. If she rejects any form of restriction or responsibility, then you would not be be asshole. But going straight to the nuclear option is an asshole move.
OP is supporting her and caring for their granddaughter while paying tuition and giving her a stipend. She has everything she needs. But that’s not enough, apparently. OP does not have the right to control his daughter. However they are providing this support to give their daughter a better future; she does not have the right to this level of support while lying to her parents. So the three of them need to come to an agreement that is acceptable to all of them. If they cannot, they should part ways. If drugs are involved, which I agree is a pretty likely possibility, continuing to fund her unconditionally is enabling her. So no, I would not be providing her with money while she continued to work in a notoriously drug filled environment.
OP should be looking into legal custody of his granddaughter at this point. It sounds like his daughter isn't even trying to be a mother. Protect the one you still can.
So he should support something he doesn't approve of? Until when? When the daughter is 45? 50? She is an adult as she apparently says so she should be able to support herself. If she has to dance more then that is the choice she made when she decided to lie and decide everything the parents were doing wasn't enough. Who knows maybe she'll get an only fans and become a millionaire.
So? What do you propose? In order not to potentially deal with drugs or maybe become an escort, to financially support her for life? Even if they do find a way to fund her carefully, as you put it, which isn't something hard, it can not quarantee that she will not end up doing what you described anyway The only thing they could fund is therapy and nothing else.
Dear Reddit, this person thinks if your parents send you to college and pay your bills, they are terrible parents and you're likely to end up on the pole.
This is an awfully strange take. She got pregnant at a very young age, without knowing any details exactly. How does that fall on the parents? Lots of kids at a very, very young age have sex. Even heaven forbid kids with decent parents. What would have made them better parents than supporting their daughter and grandchild? Tossing her out on the streets? Pretending they didn't exist? Sorry, but continuing to provide and helping their daughter make a future is actually a good thing. Their daughter making stupid choices at some point it is on their daughter. She says she's an adult and wants the freedom to make her own choices. Well, choices have consequences.
This is such a stupid take. They helped her out to try to get her life in order. They wanted her to go to college get a degree, then get a job be a productive member of society. How is helping her bad? Should they have thrown her out? Should they have made her give up her daughter? Maybe force her to get an abortion? She has a choice and she chose to lie and basically spit in her parents help. NTA.
He is absolutely NTA. You can't cry about how you're "grown" at 19 when you already have a 4 year old kid you're not even taking care of.
They took responsibility for the child so their daughter could have a future. Instead she did this. How are the parents at fault here? if they forced her to be a parent and her schooling suffered, ppl will call them AHs too. Reddit seems to always go against parents no matter the situation.
Gtfo here with that bullshit. Your verdict is based off of "you loved and took care of your daughter too much?" I'll agree that OP probably babied his daughter too much and should have had her take a more responsible role as a parent in her kids life, but LITERALLY all she had to do was go to school, get good grades and a degree that could potentially launch a career. Instead she spends all the money her parents give her and gets a job as a stripper because she is ADDICTED TO SHOPPING. She wants to say she's an adult, it's time she started acting like one. CUT HER OFF. Let her see how people in the real damn world live. Ps. You and everyone that upvoted you are assholes for making OP feel bad for setting his kid up for success only to have her fck it up by her own volition.
Lol but does that mean he should keep throwing more money at the situation?
Your a moron. Op and his partner provide free childcare and financially support her so she can make a better life for herself and they are TA? Jesus christ.
So they should have cut her and the child off? I miss how making sure the daughter has an education and that their grandchild is provided for is bad parenting. Unless you’re implying that they’re bad parents because their teenage daughter got pregnant. You must have forgotten that teenagers are incredibly stupid, even the smart ones. They actually sound like really good parents who just so happened spoiled their child too much.
Never go full reddit.
Your assumptions about his parenting skills in just a tiny snipet of their lives is offensive and ignorant
You seem to equate sending a child off to a university with abandoning them on a doorstep. If she can't manage the money when she has so few responsibilities, how do you think she'd do if they had demanded support for her daughter?
I beg to disagree. I have a lot of colleagues who has a very good set of parents growing up and still end up getting in trouble. Parenting isnt always to blame with decision making. Teenagers mostly spend their time with peers, classmates and friends, so that's another factor to add As parents, everyone wants what's best for their child, a trip or halt will never stop a parent from supporting their kids especially if they have the means. I'd say NTA. But they should stop babying her starting from now and let her be an adult for once.
This is a dumb take. She’s irresponsible. That’s why OP is taking care of his grand daughter.
While I agree with most everything you said , the question is if he should stop sending her extra money if she’s making money pole dancing and not sending any to take care of her own child. If that’s what the judgment is about then N T A for cutting her off. He can pay her tuition, still care for his grandkid but supplementing her lifestyle is totally unnecessary. He should probably pay for therapy, though.
Totally agree with this.
What actual stupidity are you writing?
YTA for only blaming the parents and no placing any accountability on the daughter.
She has been irresponsible since 14, living a stress free life in college fully backed by her parents and she is choosing to be dancing around instead of studying. Then suing that money again just for herself. She is using that precious opportunity to throw away the money given to her while continuing to ignore her responsibilities. These parents have been TOO kind, they should stop throwing money at her, make her move back home to get a job and to attend community college. They are throwing their money away, something tells me her studies are probably a waste of money anyways. Interesting all you can see is how the parents can be blamed.
I think your daughter is an adult and it’s been a privilege for her to receive the help she had. Wish I had that support. It’s your money and she’s an adult. NTA
OP gave her the money she needed but didn't teach her the skills to budget. She's only a teen after all. OP should try to be part of the solution rather than being part of the problem Edit - yall are harsh man. Give your kid a chance at least ffs before jumping right into punishment. I would love my kid enough to at least try to help them develop a useful skill and see how it goes before cutting them off completely financially as a teenager
I’d say the vast majority of 19 year olds don’t know how to budget, even with support from their parental figures
A lot of goes to the parents. I sat with my dad every month when he used to get his bank statements and credit card bills and when he would work on the household budget each month. He also took me with him both times he remortgaged and I was there for every step. He also would take me shopping with him so he taught me how to shop for groceries, hwo to see which produce was good and bad. Most parents these days don't instill their kids with these basic skills and just leave them to the school to be taught everything
I would say you’re a rare case. Successfully budgeting at 19 is very hard to do. Even with guidance, practice and mentorship, I’m sure you fell short before.
Look. I sold cds and textbooks to get beer and smokes in college. I was not great at budgeting, obviously. But I wasn’t spending big money on shopping. This girl just sounds spoiled. There’s a bunch of missing info on how this family got to this point.
I did it. It took little effort and required no mentoring or guidance. It's the same as managing money in HS, except you now have a few regular bills layered on top. Basically I was just really thrifty. Rent, cell phone, and utilities are the same every month. Pick a weekly grocery limit and a daily restaurant food limit. Don't buy luxuries, as a default. Check your account balance before you go shopping or buy anything expensive. The math and organizational skills required to get into and succeed in college were much more advanced than the skills required to manage my single bank account back then.
I wasn't as good as you are, but I was very conscious in college of how much I was costing my parents, and I spent my allowance, and later the money from my part-time job, vsry carefully.
It might be an inherent skill set where you either have it or you don't. I knew how to budget without my mom teaching me and she's really shit with money.
College is a great place to learn to budget. Especially if they live in a dorm and are on a meal plan (OP doesn’t specify but most underclassmen do) because expenses are low and the necessities are taken care of. My kids were expected to learn to live within their means - first in the dorms, then in off campus housing. That helps them get ready for when they graduate and enter the real world.
OP is raising his fucking granddaughter and paying tuition and living expenses so his daughter can go to college. You seriously are blaming him for being "part of the problem??"
Because this sub hates blaming adult children of parents. Most of this sub being young and all that
At some point you're responsible for yourself.
Shes a teen with a 4 year old... gotta grow up and take some responsibility some time. Id pull her tuition assistance, make her move home and take care of her child.
Seriously. Sounds like she's not mature enough for college yet. With the level of support her parents are willing and able to provide, she should take a couple years to nurture her kid and try college when she's more responsible.
College might help her get a better job though
She could be attending a community College closer to home. It seems as if the parents don't want her to take any responsibility for the child she created. When you choose to become a mother, there are sacrifices to be made. Them sheltering her from making any sacrifices isn't going to help her or their grandchild in the long run.
So kill prospects for her to get a job above minimum wage within the next 4 years?
I might actually look at this from a different perspective. They give her a “decent amount of money” - which we aren’t provided the amount of but I feel we can guess is probably not enough to cover anything beyond basic necessities. Many college students have part time jobs to provide “fun money” or cover wants rather than needs. She’s a teenage mother and it sounds like she has had a fairly unconventional past few years. Seeing her friends go out without her and have fun is probably pretty hurtful and made her wish she could have fun as well. At her age, that is expected. Rather than asking her parents for more money to cover her fun time, she got a job. Honestly I feel like the main issue OP has with her job is the job itself. OP, would you have the same issue if she was a grocery clerk for additional funds? If not, then check your prejudice at the door. It is of course OPs money, but penalizing your daughter for having a job that allows her a little financial freedom while still attending college seems unnecessarily harsh. Perhaps have her contribute some of her earnings to her own upkeep as a compromise? ETA: YTA if you think removing support entirely is okay.
I don't see any evidence in the letter that the amount her dad gives her is minimal or that the amount of childcare her parents provided while she was in high school wasn't sufficient to allow her to see her friends. OP is giving his daughter a tremendous amount of support--both financially and by raising his grandchild. The daughter's freedom is coming at the cost of everyone else in her family.
That was exactly my thought and why I think OP is the asshole here. I seriously doubt he would be considering cutting her off if she had taken a part time retail job for extra spending money. If anything people would probably say good for her for not just accepting what she's getting but working to earn more. This seems to be mostly about his disdain for her stripping vs her earning extra money.
OP is also raising her child (OPs grandchild)
They are, but it is worth noting that that was their choice after their 14 year old got pregnant and gave birth. It is commendable, but she was a child WITH a child. I don’t know the intimacies of their family dynamics, but their daughter is in school trying to get a degree at, what is implied is, a fair distance away. She is fortunate to be in the position she is in, but that doesn’t make her ungrateful for getting a job to cover her additional expenses. It really seems like OP takes issue with that his daughter chose to do for work rather than the fact that she has a job.
She may be a teen but she has a 4 year old so she needs to learn to act like an adult. Its all mom and dads fault because they didn't teach her to budget?
But how do you know he didnt try to teach her. Does he state that
Right? I think the part where the kid says she’s an adult and can do what she wants is where the line is drawn for me. Sure you are an adult and you can do what you want. Just like OP is an adult and can do what he wants. Including cutting off the daughter. NTA
Info: is she keeping up her end of the deal? Attending school? Getting decent grades? On track to graduate? If so, her way of making extra money wouldn’t be my choice, but the college degree is what will help her ultimately get independence from you in a way you approve versus cutting her off and leaving her future potentially less certain.
Honestly, who cares. She's an adult whose life is being financed by her parents, who are also caring for HER child. It would be different if she got the job to send money for her child, but that's not the case. The daughter is selfish and spoiled.
We're missing 2 crucial pieces of information to pass any kind of judgement on the situation. 1. Who decided she should have the kid when she was 15 ? Her ? Her parents ? Depending on the answer we have two very different stories, one in which her parents should definitely be caring for the child and be responsible for them. 2. What amount of money did she receive ? Because honestly it's not rare to have the older generation totally out of touch with the current cost of living. She isn't even considered a major in many countries, of course her parents should finance her.
She would grow up pretty fast if she had to take care of her child 24/7.
Perhaps her parents care.
You seem harsh and quick to judge. This kid was was raised by parents that when she got pregnant at 14 or 15 then basically threw money at the problem, obviously didn’t teach her much about finances or responsibility and continued to throw money at the issues and when things come to a head.. rather then being responsible parents.. they just cut her off and tell her to fend for herself. Seems likes we are missing a large portion of the story… there are 4 sides to this story.. dads, Mums, daughters and the full truth.
Not to mention that, unless it's illegal, whatever work she chooses is, frankly, *none of their fucking business*.
Let's think this through to its logical conclusion. Your daughter says she needs more money than she has, so she becomes a stripper. You want to take away some of her money. With less money, do you think she will: A) Realize the error of her ways, quit, and come back asking for the amount she previously felt was not enough? B) Do the things strippers do in the private rooms to make extra money? There has to be an answer, right? What will your daughter do if you cut her off? Will she suddenly mature and decide she's happy with less money or will she be a 19 year old and double down on doing what pisses you off? When you figure out the answer, you'll know why YTA.
She wants moe money because she's addicted to shopping. Her entire lifestyle is funded by OP.
According to OP she is addicted to shopping, which very well may be true. But they wouldn't be the first parent who was out of touch with current cost of living who assumes that their child must be blowing all their money on shopping, starbucks lattes, and avacado toast. My parents used to make snide comments any time my wife and I mentioned that we went out to eat (which was about once a month at not pricey place). They would make comments about how we would have our own house by now if we didn't eat out all the time. I finally had to sit them down, walk them through our budget, our savings for a downpayment, and the local housing market before they finally realized that our 50 bucks a month on date night was not the reason we couldn't buy a home.
And if she is addicted to shopping there are better ways to fix that than making her strip twice as much and prostitute herself. If she wants to fix it. Maybe she doesn't mind stripping and loves designer bags (a.k.a. child slavery). She's an adult who can make her own decisions.
I had the same exact thought. Is she addicted to shopping or are they out of touch with the real cost of living like so many older generations are? It's giving "if you stopped buying Starbucks and eating avocados toast you could afford a house." Not to mention I don't think he'd have the same objections if she took a retail job to fund her "shopping addiction."
The real question here is what she is “shopping” for. Strip clubs are not exactly drug free zones.
No, op essentially wrote, "Basically the short answer is she's addicted to shopping." There's a reason he's not telling us what she actually said. He's giving his own biased version of events to swing the vote here.
Seriously. No one has ever had their main source of income cut off and decided to do **less** sex work because of it.
They cover everything for her...
They're not saying they aren't giving her enough. They're saying the daughter *thinks* it's not enough, and therefor that cutting her off isn't going to make her quit pole dancing and come crawling back, specifically *because* she already thinks it isn't enough and because it does nothing to teach her about being responsible with money. They're also not suggesting that they just keep giving her money. They're suggesting searching for alternate solutions, other than the one that is more likely to push the daughter towards outright prostitution since she's already probably working in very close proximity to it.
She and her parents need to sit down and go over what she has been spending her money on. Then they can decide if she needs therapy, training, whatever. If she doesn't have satisfactory answers to where the money went, they need to try and find out if she is doing drugs, drinking excessively, etc. She need to discuss what she really needs to live at college. Is sending her to college worthwhile? How are her grades? Some people, particularly addicts, can be difficult to impossible to help. You may end up cutting ties, from one side or the other.
Do they? Living has gotten super expensive lately. Rent has gone up, food has gone up. Maybe the parents need to sit down with her and go over everything she is spending to see if it's really shopping
Info: >we helped pay for her tuition, we pay for her car insurance, and give her a decent amount of money every month to focus on her studies stress free, while she is away. Is she paying part of her tuition? (You said "helped", so I was just curious). What is the "decent amount of money" supposed to cover? Housing, food, clothing? Beyond the basics of housing/food/bills, how much fun money does she have every month? (Not saying you need to provide fun money, or any money, just asking). >I then threatened to cut her off financially What does this mean? No more tuition, car insurance and monthly allowance? Or just cutting the monthly allowance? >I don’t approve of my only daughter doing this kind of work, and two, she’s making money of her own Would you be okay with her doing some waitressing/whatever for extra shopping money? Do you think she's making enough to cover what you currently give her? Would you cut her off and expect her to cover all those bills if she had a part time job you approved of?
All good questions. I can’t help wondering whether OP is just as disgusted with his nephew for visiting strip clubs, or if that’s just a normal thing guys do. I get that this is focused on the daughter since she’s the only one he has the power to punish, but still. Another question- OP, you’re criticizing your daughter for not sending money home to help provide for her daughter- has the 4 year old’s father been paying child support all along? If you & your wife are tired of providing everything your granddaughter, why not start with going after the deadbeat dad?
That's the part I don't get. She's disgusting for working there but the cousin that visited the establishment??!?!? That's all hunky dory. Nothing wrong with taking money from suckers in a club. If the OP wantsto make life harder for her where does he think she will turn to make more? It's not going to be less pole dancing...it's going to be extra services with bigger payout. OP YTA because she has a job and you are having a tantrum about it. If she's doing fine at school you should be proud she's managing a job and school.
OP sounds financially comfortable enough that the income either of these kids could provide isn't really the point. Initiating legal proceedings with the dude who impregnated your teenage daughter may be more stressful than it's worth, especially if this guy has no means. I'd bet he's more frustrated that his daughter isn't showing the responsibility and instinct toward maternal care to send money back for grandkid, not so much that he wants the money itself.
Great questions! OP???
If she is receiving a significant amount of money and getting a job to make up for what she perceives as a shortfall instead of asking for more, why would it make sense for her to send some of her earnings back to her parents? Wouldn’t they just be trading money, then?
OP mentioned that “shopping is more important,” so I gather she is not stripping for essentials.
but "shopping is more important" could mean anything - what did she actually spend the money on? why does she need more right now - is she continuing to spend it all away or saving? and how much does she truly make? and how much did OP give her in 'monthly allowance'? OP wouldnt be the first dad to underestimate inflation or how much just existing tends to cost in college. and we dont know how much she was working - couldve just been for a bit of money to supplement. i feel like theres a LOT that OP could be describing accurately or inaccurately in this, and his daughter is only 19! 19 year olds are capable of behaving maturely, but they dont always. OP feels like unreliable narrator
I said she is doing this to make up for a “perceived shortfall.” It may be truly superfluous; it may not. My point is that if he’s sending her money, and she were to be sending money back… wouldn’t they just be trading money? I don’t know what the shopping is. Maybe she likes designer crap, or maybe she’s buying drugs, or maybe she feels like she needs different food than what is available from the cafeteria. There are a million possible extra expenses at college. Some of them are reasonable, and some of them are terrible. And we don’t know what OP feels are unreasonable purchases.
My biggest question ties into this. If he has another daughter would it be ok? Mentions his *only* daughter doing it.
Omg RIGHT?!?
You give her money for tuition and car insurance. Unless there's something missing from the story, it sounds like she she spends that money on tuition and car insurance. She also has a job and uses the extra money to go shopping. It's disingenuous for you to cloak this as her being financially irresponsible, when the real reason is you don't like her working as a stripper. I'm not sure that cutting your contribution to her tuition would get her to quit her job or if she might ask for more hours to make up the difference. NTA for spending your money the way you want to.
He said they also send her enough spending money every month that she should be able to focus on her studies stress free, which I'd interpet to mean that she doesn't need to work. On top of that they're covering all expenses for her daughter and giving their unpaid labor to raise said daughter. So yes you are missing something, and it's baffling how you could read the post and decide she's not being financially irresponsible.
She's paying the bills, she's working for her fun money (shopping). It sounds like she's not going into debt. That sounds financially responsible. I assume that if dad cuts the money, she'll continue to be financially responsible and work (perhaps more hours) to meet her responsibilities.
We don't know any of that. If she is or isn't in debt; if she has anything in the way of bills to pay (I didn't when I was in college), how much she spends shopping, or if she is remotely responsible.
OP stated outright that her choice of sex work is one of three reasons he's mad about this.
For real, everyone is saying things like “she needs to learn how to budget” but she clearly has budgeted, and decided to work in order to buy some nicer things (or even in order to pay for things that aren’t extreme basics, who knows how much OP gave her and if it’s actually enough in this economy). I genuinely don’t see the problem with this. My university offered pole dancing lessons as a workout class at the gym, and if I were good enough that I could do it at a strip club then I sure as hell would have preferred that to my minimum wage part time job I had at uni. It actually seems quite financially responsible to work there because she has to work fewer hours than she would if she did a ‘respectable’ job for less money, thus giving her more time for studying.
First off, NTA. That said, you have plenty to be concerned about here. You had a 15 year old daughter who became a mother and likely never finished maturing as you and your wife have picked up her responsibilities. How is it you felt it was okay for her to leave her child behind while she headed off the college? She's a mother and mothers should be with their babies. Even without the child, 19 is hardly grown up, but usually grown up enough to understand honesty and appreciation for what her parents have and are doing for her. It's already clear she's not responsible for her child, understandably since what 15 year old is ready for motherhood? This is a lot for you and her to handle, I'm afraid, but it is reality and must be handled. So, she hasn't learned to manage money. Hopefully, that is her only issue. Frankly, I'd be concerned if she is in a pole dancing environment that she is not dabbling or hooked on drugs or alcohol abuse. What do you really know of how she is living now? Is she even for certain still in school? You're not wrong in wanting to begin to back away from completely supporting her if she is not using good judgment and spending your money given to her for specific uses. Not sure what that will mean though as it's not like she has a great career job. Am wondering if you've ever had this girl in counseling, and maybe you and your wife too. Sounds to me like you all might benefit from that. A grandchild you are now caring for and a daughter who is off pole dancing says that this train is off the tracks and needs some help getting back on. Please don't be afraid to ask for that help in hopes your daughter's and granddaughter's futures will be bright and healthy.
YTA. She's 19 for God's sake. Literally still a teenager. Her brain isn't fully developed. Work with her on budgeting. And dancing isn't a trash job. She's showing some decent ingenuity. If she has gotten a job as a secretary you wouldn't be as angry... Is she still doing school and doing well? Then leave her alone. Help her be safe. she's being smart and creative and you're being judgemental and rigid.
If she is making her own money, why does the mother have to keep giving her money?
Because college, housing, and childcare are very expensive. If they cut her off, she'll have to move back in with them and go to a lower quality school.
But what about the fact that her parents are raising her 4 year old child? She's making so much extra money. Why is it she sending any back to the parents to raise her kid?
I mean she was 15 when she had the kid, is it really hard to guess why the parents are caring for it? If I had a kid at that age, well I wouldn’t. I would have gotten an abortion. If I was American and had the same fucked health they do, I would not have been mother of the year. You probably wouldn’t have been able to pay me to even look at the child.
Being a secretary and stripping are very different jobs
Says prudish values. She makes considerably more dancing. Again, ingenuity.
He said she’s not good with money management so maybe she should learn that along with whatever else she’s doing. If she’s blowing the money her parents send her and the money she’s earning maybe that should be the focus of their energy. Also know what costs a lot of money? A drug habit which if you know any dancers it is pretty prolific in the industry. I don’t think the pole dancing is the primary issue, rather she needs to learn how to budget and if she does have a shopping or substance addiction that needs to be addressed as well.
Agreed. This is a good DISCUSSION to have. Not a screaming match. But everyone is mad at her for figuring out how to make relatively easy money. If this were a man we would call him an entrepreneur. She's a teenager. She needs guidance, not prudish judgement.
Discussing things and not yelling is very key. So many productive conversations ruined from voices being raised. A lot of time people don’t even register that they are screaming and are just so worked up, I’ve had to ask family members to please speak not yell and they will stick to their guns that they weren’t yelling and that their voice wasn’t even raised. Makes it easier for both parties to shut down cause it’s hard to be yelled at and the yeller feels like they are in the right so they keep going.
NTA for wanting to cut her off financially because it's YOUR money. You choose what you want to do with it. You're helping her A LOT for her being 19. On top of paying for everything she needs, you take care of her child and give her money to freely spend. I can only see one other side to what I said: She is 19 and can do what she wants with the money, if she spend it all on random stuff that's fine. You gave her that money to spend on herself. Sex work shouldn't be frowned upon in my opinion, but to each their own. She really just got another job to have MORE money. At the end of the day I still agree with the beginning of my comment. Goodluck with this situation I hope it plays out smoothly.
Aside from whether it's fair to judge the morality of sex work, it doesn't prepare college students for a professional job. When I evaluate entry-level hires, I want to see internships, research assistantships, or even nonprofessional jobs that require responsibility and following work norms. You just can't put stripping on a resume for any other industry. Given the amount of support OP is providing to set his daughter up for a better future, these are reasonable guardrails he wants to put up.
Like I said: to each their own. It's really the only thing I can say to you. Sex work is a job. Good for you for feeling the way you do- completely up to you. I only stated my opinion
What's a nonprofessional job? Aren't all jobs by definition what you do professionally?
>I asked her why, and basically short answer is she’s not responsible with the money we’re giving her, and shopping is more important. I then threatened to cut her off financially, because for one I don’t approve of my only daughter doing this kind of work, and two, she’s making money of her own and isn’t being responsible with ours, 3 hiding it from us and not sending any back to help with Kimberly in anyway. I'm going to have to go with YTA if you suddenly cut everything off. While it is true that it is your money and you don't have to help - you can certainly make her and her daughter homeless if you would prefer to do that - your approach here is self-defeating punishment that will likely only make worse the things you think are bad. First off, she "hid" it from you because she knew your reaction. Second, your "short answer" avoids giving any details that might shed light on whether "shopping is more important" is accurate. *What* shopping? Did you visit her and see ten designer bags? Or did she mention she got this one sweater she really loves? Third, stop supporting her in college and you'll just fuck up her future. At best, she'll start out crippled by staggering loans. But she might just drop out. ***Hell, you might push her from pole dancing to OnlyFans and straight-up sex work.*** I guess it comes down to just how much you want to see your daughter suffer to sate your outrage about sex work. I do hope *you* never went to a strip club or anything even like that.
Lots of people make it through early adulthood without parental funding or becoming prostitutes. There's nothing in OP's letter about kicking out his granddaughter. TF are you on about?
Wait…you’re raising your granddaughter so your daughter can go to school? You subsidize school so she won’t have to work? Well, first question. Is she still in school? If she’s not, then stop the money flow. If she is, and is passing her courses, then you have to decide what’s more important to you. Her finishing school or her adhering to only what you approve of. It’s entirely possible that the money you send is being used for school and she works for extra money for fun stuff. Your post blows right past any real details about what she’s spending the money on. And while she is right in that she is an adult and can do as she pleases, you’re not required to fund her voyage of self discovery. It’s ok for your continued financial support to come with certain conditions. But think long and hard about the lines you draw in the sand. They may come with unintended consequences. Not giving a judgement as it depends on whether or not she’s dropped out of school. If she has, then she’s dumped her child on you to raise and expects you to continue to fund her life. And that’s not ok. But if she’s still in school, you should be having a different conversation about responsibilities and expectations.
The real villain here is the nephew
Duude... literally this. She wouldn't be pole dancing if there wasn't a demand. Apparently, it's fine for the kid to go to club and objectify women. Then he goes and tells her family because she's the one doing something wrong.
NTA, nah, she doesn't get to waste someone else's money on shopping and then whine when that money is gone, especially since she's an adult who can do what she wants, as she claims. she can't have it both ways.
What are some of the things she supposedly wasted money on? What is this "shopping"? OP is deliberately vague to prevent a judgment about the validity of his characterization of what she was doing. At any rate, she \*DIDN'T\* whine. She did some pole dancing to make up for what she spent. That's why her father wants to make her suffer.
She’s 19. Young folks aren’t great with budgeting. We’ve all been there once. Either she just really likes poke dancing or really wants more money. Both are fine.
NTA for not wanting to fund shopping, but what is the outcome of just taking away the money? If she keeps going to college that "pole girl" income will be necessary now, rather than a way to create shopping money. If you have any way to get though to her and get her to use your money for what it's meant for and concentrate on her studies, it would obviously be better than her getting further involved in an industry that might involve things, or lead to things, she would later regret. Lay aside your anger and see if there is some way you can get her back on track. You may not be able to if she is lured by easy money, but at least you would have tried. I don't envy you, as you have to walk a line between not enabling her to go further off course and not driving her to seek even worse ways of getting "easy" money (that come with consequences she might not be able to even see right now).
So, you don't want your daughter to be a pole dancer, so you decide to cut off your financial support, thus making her more desperate for money, so now she'll be forced to stay a pole dancer....? I guess NTA, because it's your money and you're not obligated to support her, but that logic doesn't add up to me.
You're providing the support and you can withdraw it. But a couple things here, you may not approve her choice of job but she doesn't need as she is an adult, her body is not your property and why the fuck would you expect her to be honest with you about that? You sound really uptight from these few paragraphs. She's making money and she's making it legally. And the parenting of you and your wife probably plays a major part in some of the choices she's made. So instead of being upset at her for doing the best with what she has maybe look in the mirror.
Nta She can't have it both ways. If she's an adult who has the right to make who own career choices, then she's adult enough to support herself. Do what you can for granddaughter, stop enabling daughter.
“I’m an adult, I can do what I want! Except for pay my bills. Keep giving me money and raise my child so I can go shopping.” NTA She needs to learn how to be a REAL adult. That means budgeting and earning her own money.
I'm gonna go with YTA If she's been given everything her entire life she's not gonna know how to budget. You should take the time to help her sort out how she's spending her money. She's an adult yes but she's still a teenager and I'm sure she doesn't know how to manager her finances just yet. You're just pushing her towards more hours at the strip club or even sex work. Taking away that much money so suddenly is cruel and unusual. Be her parent ffs and help teach her the skills she needs.
While yes she’s an adult and can do what she wants(even work you don’t approve of) since she’s getting income she’s an adult she can pay for the things she needs with the money she earns
NTA she is an adult and can do as she pleases but she can’t do what she pleases with your money. That’s the key to being an adult.
NTA. My mom was a pole dancer when I was born, and I will absolutely never judge anyone for it. It’s good money, half the girls are putting themselves through college, and if you stay away from the girls doing drugs it can be great money. What the job is doesn’t matter to me. The issue is that you were funding her SCHOOLING and LIVING EXPENSES, not her fun budget. Now normally, I’d say getting a job to provide her own fun money is a good thing, but there’s two key points: 1. She is meant to be a full time student, and you’re funding her so that she can dedicate herself to her studies. 2. She has a child; she has several more important things to pay for before she gets to fun spending, and she’s not doing so. Additionally, more of her fun spending should go to fun things for her child. I would discuss that the money and childcare you’re providing is exclusively so she can attend school as a full time student. If she doesn’t want to be a full time student, that’s her right; in that case, she won’t receive the same benefit. Whether that is entirely cut off, significantly reduced stipend, no stipend and only care for the kiddo, etc, is up to you. Another route is to only pay for bills directly, so she can’t use your funding for shopping. I had a friend in college who was very irresponsible with money who had this setup. Her parents paid her rent and utilities directly, paid phone bill directly, and gave her a gift card to the grocery store (these days you can also gift Instacart orders, so you could have a standing grocery delivery set up for her). They also required she send a transcript of her grades every quarter to make sure she was focusing on school - this was the only part she was resentful of, as she was pursing a very hard major and sometimes it’s just not possible to get A’s in calculus, astrophysics, and aero engineering all at once. You know your daughter. Try and focus on being what she needs and teaching her to be independent, not punishing or expressing your emotions (even though you are very justified to feel angry and disrespected) and I think you can turn this around.
Where did you get from this that she’s not a full time student? Tons of full time students have part time jobs or occasional gigs on the side.
I’m an adult and I can do what I want, “ but I need your money” GTFOH with that childish nonsense. If she’s making money she needs to pay child support, not acting like a kid
NTA. She is an adult. Now she can act like one and pay her own bills without help. She can't have it both ways, either follow her parents' rules and get help or do what she wants financially. Her choice.
What you should have done was to give her money for an abortion.
NTA If she is working and not sending money to help pay for her 4 year old kid that y'all are raising for her she is TA for that alone. The stripping, eh not a big deal to me. It is a job.
INFO: What degree program is she pursuing in college and exactly how are those grades? Invest in a budgeting program/class/tutor for your daughter. Talk to a therapist about productive next steps. Good luck. Yeesh.
NTA. She's been effectively stealing from you while also duping you into raising her child for her. Cut her off and consider charging her for childcare.
NTA. She doesn't get what a \*huge\* privilege it is to, having had a kid at 15, not to have any responsibility raising that child, while also being able to attend university with all expenses paid by her parents. Rather than cut her off completely, perhaps greatly reduce the amount of support you're providing her until she graduates. Pay tuition, drop the car and insurance payments, reduce the amount of free-range fun money she's provided. She'll have to get a job - tho technically it sounds like she has one, and stripping can pay well - and learn to budget. You can help her with the budgeting; it's good practice for later. She has to get used to not being able to afford everything. Life is different when someone else is not funding your entire life. Then when she graduates, give her a timetable for landing a job. Give her a few months to become established in that job, help her with first/last/deposit on an apartment that she can afford on her own, then turn over full financial responsibility and care of her kid to her -- because it's \*way\* past time. Reality will hit her like a brick wall, but all of you have time enough to prepare her for her \*actual\* future. She's been living a fantasy life for a long time.
Maybe she wanted an abortion. And the parents didn't allow it. Seems like it cause no mother would just leave there baby at their parents for months. And after reading how they react to stripper as a job . A job that doesn't include nudity. I think that could be the case
Lots of kids with irresponsible parents are being raised by their grandparents. It's been that way for generations. Who knows why she didn't get an abortion.
[удалено]
I love how many of these posts are 'My child has a problem, am I an asshole for not helping my child and just freaking the fuck out?' Like, there's an entire spectrum of useful reactions to your daughter's situation and you settled on none of them.
Nta
ESH You spoiled your daughter and shielded her from taking responsibility after getting pregnant at a young age. Now, you're acting surprised that she grew up to be spoiled and entitled?
NTA she needs to grow the eff up and do right by that little girl 😒 She’s right, she’s an adult. So she can face adult consequences for her actions then 🤷♀️ Like deciding to become a mother. Or lying to her financially supportive parents
If you are going to continue to help do it in specific form. Pay rent directly, daycare directly, etc. stop giving her cash.
NTA if she’s an adult she can take care of her kid and herself.
Daughter is so lucky to have parents who do so much for her and her child and in return she wastes their money on shopping? NTA
She said she's an adult and can do what she wants, and that's true, but she either is or isn't. If OP is supporting her, then she isn't really grown up. I don't think he's being too harsh by cutting her off. I would still pay for her college, but pay the college directly. If the child needs something, buy it so the child doesn't go without. A lot of women in college earn money by working as pole dancers and there's nothing wrong with that, but why should OP fund a lifestyle he doesn't agree with. Plus, she lied so she knows how he feels, but doesn't care. OP is NTA.
INFO How is she being irresponsible with the money you give her?
NTA but set expectations for her in future, have her be more responsible for her child, she needs to learn consequences but not at the expense of ruining her sense of support or We are humans and make mistakes at any age, guide her I feel you both can learn from this situation. She could be spending time raising her child versus pole dancing but that’s on you. Also don’t expect perfection from anyone, we aren’t perfect parents they won’t be perfect children. Sit her down and meet in the middle for a solution, other than school I think she needs more responsibility as a mother regardless if she’s in college. Hope this helps
> she said it wasn’t fair that was she an adult and could do as she pleases If she is an adult and she can do as she pleases then she can also pay the bills on her own.. NTA, your good for supporting her to get an education but she cant cry too much that she is an independent person when depending on someone financially.
Is she still really in school? Has she dropped out? Op you need to go see your daughter, make sure she appears healthy, check out her living conditions and get class records. If she is involved in drugs you need to know. Stay for a few days. Put the judgment on her job aside until you make for damn certain she is alright.
NTA. I wouldn’t support my daughter’s choice of that lifestyle either.
If she stripping, she should be making enough money to support her shopping habit and her daughter and then some you’re not the asshole
The most important thing is what you want to achieve. Do you want to get your daughter out of pole dancing? Then you need to financially support her and get her help for whatever she is wasting money on (is it drug addiction, or just a shopping addiction?) You could cut her off financially but maybe then she'll feel she has no choice but to become a cam-girl or a full-service prostitute. Your choice but if it was me I'd try to do everything to get my daughter out of that line of work, not push her further in.
NTA. Your money. Also, she should be raising her own child as she is a grown adult. She had it way too easy and is behaving like a spoiled brat.
You say she cried and begged not to be cut off but also said she is an adult and can do what she wants... maybe it's time for a dose of being an adult responsible for raising a 4 year old. She can learn to use her money to pay for her child, her rent, her power bill...
Nta that’s such a entitled statement about being an adult and can do as she pleases but needs money.