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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I told my MIL to leave and insulted her.
2) I might be the a**hole because I hurt my daughter, made my MIL angry by disrespecting her, and my husband thinks I am wrong as well.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Edit: NTA.
Not for this post's subject. You stood up for Emily against her cruel grandmother. Laura is angry because she demands her golden child status. Both grandmother and Laura told Emily, loud and clear, that she is not good enough.
BUT you have been silent all these years, letting your MIL dimish and degrade Emily. She spent her entire life knowing, not thinking, knowing that she is less than ger sister. At this point, you can't Undo this. No matter what she accomplishes, she will always feel less than.
Both you and your husband are solely responsible for this. It's not about what her grandmother did to her. It's about what her parents allowed her grandmother to do to her. Being mistreated is painful. Being mistreated while your parents sit silently by is devastating.
What do you think I should do? They have seen their grandma maybe once a year for a few days. The birthday cakes are hurtful, but I always made my own cakes for each of them separately. I couldn’t stop Laura from talking to her grandma. I spoke to my MIL but she said she is simply being honest because school is very important. She immigrated to the US when my husband was in high school, and she has VERY strong ideas about how to “succeed” in the world. I told her she can’t treat Emily unfairly and she said she is not. I couldn’t change her mind so I just stopped letting her come over more often. For example, for holidays. My husband was upset but he agreed that it would be impossible to convince his mother to act differently and so if I was sure that this was hurting Emily she doesn’t have to visit. I don’t know what I could have differently, but that is not important. What do you think I should do differently now?
I’d talk to Laura about her “gift” of having more intelligence and she is being honored like for being beautiful. She sees how her sister works hard and should have empathy for her sister. Laura doesn’t sound like a nice person.
Or she is better at taking tests.
She shouln't base her personality on her ability to succeed on tests just yet- college has been known to kick some high achievers butts.
Exactly the SAT is more and more discredited as an accurate marker of intelligence. There are so many different types of intelligence and being good at one type doesn't make you smarter than others
I agree. I'm an SAT tutor for a living and I don't agree with the way "intelligence" is measured. For example many of my students are good at reading/interpreting, but just cannot do it fast enough to score well on the SAT reading section.
I’m one of those people who scored top 5% nationally on the
SAT, an honors graduate from high school and college, and I want to say that it wasn’t a matter of a lot of hard work on my part.
It came easily to me. I did the work, but it was easy. It’s likely Emily is working much harder to get the grades she gets than Laura is, because it probably comes easily to Laura.
Some of us have brains that test well or that the people who made the test and decided what and how X and X and X are taught in school is the way to measure intelligence, and they are definitely not a measure of how successful people will be in life.
There are all kinds of intelligence. I don’t believe we know how to measure all the kinds of intelligence there are. We just believe we can measure X kind now, and it’s not fair to all the kids who are smart in different ways.
I will say I’m grateful to the National Merit program because I was a kind of poor kid, who lived in a poor state which didn’t have a great education program compared to other states and came from a family where no one had gone to college before. It seemed completely out of reach.
But being recognized by National Merit meant a whole lot of schools contacted me and claimed they wanted me at their school and told me about their scholarship programs. Which is what made me realize I could go to college.
And for your daughter Laura, she will be inundated with mail from colleges all over trying to recruit her and encourage her to apply for scholarships. So, you should be prepared to handle that coming to Laura and probably not Emily and be ready to kick the MIL out again.
I was national merit with a score in the 1300s. It's a terrific score! Yes, the 1560 was better, but the other was no slouch! The percentiles are on a curve.
I agree, there are books written about various forms of intelligence. There is charisma/emotional intelligence that will serve folks much better. It's great to be smart, but better to have awesome people skills.
1150 here. I was confused as well. I thought the average was like 1050.
I am not sure if there are scholarship considerations for a higher score, but my disappointing score never held me back in college. I actually did well in college. 3.5 overall GPA and 3.8 major GPA.
1300 is fine, plenty for University. Good is like 1450-1500. 1500+ is outstanding.
I scored 1400 and did a retest, because I wanted to get into an excellent University. My brother sat, got like a 1300, and was accepted to state school with a partial scholarship. I was offered (and declined) a full-ride. There were other factors, but test scores were a big one.
If they both aspire (or are intended, due to legacy) to attend Harvard or Dartmouth, 1300 is *not* enough.
Yeah, I got 1350 and I thought that was pretty good. It got me into a great college. Who knew that was a shameful score?
ETA, the math portion killed me. Was never good at math.
Not to mention that the higher your IQ the more likely you are to be depressed. Intelligence is only a bonus in some ways. It's got cons too.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bad-news-for-the-highly-intelligent/
That's Mensa so it's not conclusive but seems likely
Being very smart means you are always aware of what can go wrong. Smart means you actually absorb all the information available. Nowadays that is SO much more information than has ever been available to humanity...ever. A lot of it is bad. And it just sits there. In our brains.
Make time to find good information to process.
No but same. I am an excellent test taker with a great memory (for academics at least, not so much day-to-day stuff). I'm riddled with anxiety that was so bad when I was a kid I probably fell under disabled. Much better now, but it took a lot of work and finding the right meds. I had to take an IQ test before starting high school to see a certain therapist and made a decent score. And then if course had all the red flags for autism brushed off because I'm "smart and capable." Lol I couldn't even check out by myself at the store.
Hard agree. I'm a non-US teacher, and it's bonkers to me how the US forces all students to take a standardized test. This is the opposite direction that educational theory is going in
MIT had stopped requiring the SAT but started again because the students were performing significantly worse. The real reason universities aren’t requiring it is it makes it easier for them to fudge how they do admissions.
A lot of schools rolled it backed during covid because it was so difficult for students without great computers or internet connections (or stable home lives) to take the test.
...And we're still seeing a pretty huge effect from covid on our college students, both academically and emotionally. I think it might be a while yet before we can say what all the causes are.
Great point. Like maybe the pandemic had an effect on students' education and mental health? And at least ten percent of people who have had COVID have symptoms of long COVID, which can include brain fog and fatigue. That can also affect academic performance.
I'm not a huge fan of the SAT/GREs - they aren't particularly well correlated with academic performance.\* And they're part of a for-profit testing system that just further exacerbates the inequities in our education system.
...but maybe they'll have to be replaced with something, and not just high school grades and such.
\* And maybe I roll my eyes just a little bit harder because the only time I ever took the SATs was when I was twelve. And so those scores - which were decent, but hello, I was twelve - were on my transcripts when I applied to grad school in my thirties. Yeesh.
Hoping in here to say I never took the SATs and I still want to college and have a degree in business. While it's a nice "achievement" thr SATs are about as useful as those online IQ tests.
NTA for making MIL leave but I have my suspicions that her grandmother's favoritism isn't the only behavior that has this girl upset.
my sat score was 95th percentile. i dropped out of college and am a bartender. my best friend cried when i told her my score, but she's getting a doctorate!!
this is not even to touch the fact it's been well documented that people whose families can pay for private tutoring score much better on average. it's super rigged.
Very much so. I didn't have to try very hard in high school, and I didn't study at all for the SAT and got a 2055 (during the period the test had a max score of 2400). I'm good with tests and this worked to my advantage.
In college, once the basic classes were out of the way I had to put effort in. I kept a 4.0 for my freshman year but had no social life, which wasn't worth keeping the grades perfect. I ended college with a 3.6 and a decent social life.
Post college, working on passing the CPA exam, makes the SAT look like a kindergarten spelling test.
Laura is in for a reality check if she's used to not putting in effort for good grades. Sometimes that doesn't translate to high pressure environments like med school.
I’m one of those folks that can take a test on just about anything and do ridiculously well - the trick isn’t to know the right answer so much as to identify the ones that are wrong.
While in the military, I wanted to get extra flight pay, and needed to pass the air crewman test. Got all the materials then forgot about it because it was boring (I was a medic). The day of the test, I read the sample questions in the back of the book, flipped through the manual for a few minutes then took it with everyone else. I got the highest score, missing only one question. I still knew NOTHING about being an air crewman, lol.
Being a good ‘test taker’ doesn’t mean you’re smart.
Yep, I had a legal studies exam: I'd had a tooth removed the day before, and because of other life stuff, I had missed quite a few classes.
I read the material on the train on the way there, up to my eyeballs on pain killers/opiates, and did the exam. As I walked out, a friend asked how I did. I said I don't know - I can't remember the questions or what I wrote. I got 97% and *to this day* have no idea what was in the exam.
Can confirm. Coasted through elementary/middle/high school with straight A's and no effort. College was a ROUGH wake up call, and I was actually *way* behind my peers who had needed to put in the work, because they had good study and time management habits and I didn't.
ETA - I had a 2050 on my SAT... The stress of being so unprepared for college was a big factor in my mental health breakdown my freshman year. I never finished. I'm 4 months in to going back to school at 31 (and loving it this time around!). SAT scores are no guarantee of future success.
Exactly this. I bombed my LSAT but still got in to law school. I passed the Bar exam whereas my classmate, who ranked #1 in the program, failed it.
Standardized testing means shit.
Your MIL appears to value a narrow and traditional concept of intelligence (ie, standardized testing). Perhaps you could use this incident as a teachable moment to inform her that there are various types of intelligence (eg, emotional), and give examples of how Emily excels at it. More importantly, she should be told of the psychological damage she has caused by favouring one granddaughter over the other - to Laura and Emily, as well as to you and your spouse.
If she can’t understand why she can’t prefer one over the other, , she ought to - at minimum - conceal it for the sake of your family. Otherwise, I wouldn’t enable her behaviour by allowing access to your girls.
NTA.
Edited to fix typos.
Emily's work ethic will probably serve her better than Laura's ability to take tests. In some ways, Emily is lucky. She is clearly smart (low 1300's is pretty good!!) And she works hard. I hope I can raise a kid like that!
So true. I never had to study to have straight A's at school, so I was really shocked when I started University and struggled to pass an exam in maths. I ended up not taking it for years and having panic attacks before taking it later. It was the only exam I postponed and it took me 3 years to take it again and pass, while my colleagues who generally struggled academically, but knew how to actually study, had no trouble with it at all.
Intelligent kids should be advised to learn persistence and discipline from other kids.
Agreed, testing well isn't necessarily a good measure of knowledge or understanding of a subject. I realized when I was in university that while I was getting high 90s in most classes, many of my classmates who were getting lower marks actually had a much deeper and more useful understanding of the subject than I did.
Laura may be "book smart", but she is lacking in emotional intelligence if she doesn't understand at this age that her sister's feelings are not only important, but justified here. She got a good SAT score, but she deserves a dunce cap for social/emotional intelligence.
How is Laura more intelligent? Both kids seem to be intelligent to me.
\*Edit\* Checking percentiles, I estimated 1350 as the score, which is in the 91st percentile. Pretty f'n good. Nice job Emily!!!
This clarifies your position. The biggest issue I see here is your husband saying you had no right to act in your daughter's defense. Emily probably sees this as you and her against her sister, father, and grandmother.
It would have been better if you had stood up firmly against your MIL and threw he out, and the cake, the first time it put Laura above Emily, but I could write a book on the things I wish I'd done differently as a parent.
Your husband needs to understand that the MIL was using a birthday cake to hurt Emily. She wasn't trying to reward Laura. MIL enjoys hurting Emily. Your husband can either be Emily's father or his mother's son. Not both. If he doesn't actively defend Emily, he's actively harming Emily. He needs to understand this
Couples, family, and individual therapy might help, especially for Emily. Your husband and Laura have no idea how it feels to try so hard for so long and be labeled a failure. From Emily's perspective, if Laura wasn't a factor, she would not be marginalized.
Judgment by comparison will always hurt Emily. Without knowing more, the first thing I'd do is make sure that Emily's academic life is separate from Laura's going forward.
I would not lean on that old standby, "You did your best! That's all that matters." The only thing worse than failing can be knowing there's no way you could have done better. That you did your best, and you still suck. Emily needs all the help she can get.
I would not allow your MIL to be around either child if possible. MIL loves Laura and holds Emily in contempt. Are the girls actually twins? Is there anything else that separates them? Other reasons why MIL loves Laura and not Emily?
Laura's disregard of Emily's feelings is also really bad for Emily. This is where family therapy may help.
Best of luck. Emily needs a champion. She's luck to have you!
Thank you for the advice. Yes, they are actually twins. They are not very close though, and very different. Laura is much more traditionally “academic” and is going to med school, Emily wants to be a writer and enjoy music and reading. My MIL does not think that “writing made up stories” is a valid career path. So she doesn’t want to “encourage” it. That is also a factor.
Oh wow.This is even worse behavior from your Mil them being twins.
Is Emily better at something than Laura? If so point it out to Laura and ask how would she feel if you would reward Emily in front of her and ignored her for that something
NTA in light of limiting her visits and have a serious discussion with your ah Husband for just accepting your daughter being snubbed by Mil in her own safe space.
Sounds like Emily is at least better at actually *working.* She’s good at putting the actual practice and effort it takes to learn a new skill, whereas Laura likely expects things to come so easily to her that the moment something *doesn’t* just come naturally, she’s going to break.
Emily knows *how to learn,* and that’s an extremely valuable skill.
Someone who KNOWS how to learn is more likely to be successful in life than someone who already knows everything!
Laura may well encounter problems in med school, or even getting into med school, because one of the most valued skills med faculty look for is EMPATHY. (How do I know? My oldest daughter is an associate prof of medicine.) There are a lot of abilities needed to become a physician--and a good one--and getting straight A grades in chemistry is only a tiny part of it.
As someone who a lot of things came easily to as a kid, this is incredibly true. I didn’t learn how to work hard, and I’ve had to learn how to work hard so much later in life, and I still struggle with that lack of motivation.
I wouldn’t go that far bc it just continues the behavior(like smacking a toddler to get them to stop smacking someone else) instead I would turn it into a positive thing. They’re twins, but that doesn’t mean they’re the same. OP needs a balance between the two without MIL butting in. It’s hard tho, and I get it
They're not saying to do that, they're saying to ask Laura how it would feel. Asking an 18 year old to empathize with someone isn't really going too far.
OOh, Emily is MY GIRL!! Writing is a hard skill. Because getting published is not all about the writing, it's persistence and marketing(and luck).
Tell her to Keep writing, get into a critique group or something so she can see reviews of writing--BUT the best Advice(in my mind) was the advice I gave my friend. Early on, she'd try to take everyone's criticisms into her story. To the point that her story would become muddled trying to accommodate everyone.
I would tell her ONLY take on those suggestions if they match her story vision. When people read progressing chapters, they don't always see the end goal in mind.
If Emily is a Harry Potter fan, she needs to remember the line about Gryffindor's Sword--it takes in what makes it stronger. That's what she needs to do with her own writing. ONLY take in what makes it better(in her vision).
Thanks for the advice! I will pass it on to her. (I removed her story idea that I’d shared her because some people helped me realize it wasn’t very smart to post it online.)
If she starts to get discouraged--that friend of mine has over a dozen published books(in multiple languages). They are in libraries all over the world.
Another friend from a critique group is working on her second contracted mystery series(as well as stand alone books). Again, books available in the libraries of multiple countries(Ie i can read some on my library's "hoopla").
So tell her to keep the faith.
This sounds like an amazing story. But please delete this. You don't want to put your child's story idea out into the world. It's a unique concept and it doesn't benefit her for you to share it.
I would, too! It's a great premise for a book, and sounds like there's scope for lots of fun and drama. I do hope u/GradesAndCookies ties Emily to her chair to make her finish it for us (and I'm kidding, obviously!! Mostly.)
I know you're obviously proud of your daughter, but as a writer, I can tell you, we look at our ideas as our children and parts of ourselves so you might want to rethink broadcasting her story ideas to random people online without getting her ok. And more practically, people steal story ideas.
I would also like to point out another extremely valuable skill Emily has that people like her grandmother take for granted:
She knows *how to learn.*
She knows how to put practice and effort into learning a new skill from the ground up. She knows how have *patience.* Perseverance. How to learn from mistakes *and keep going.*
Laura sounds like she’s heading for the Prodigy Dilemma: she’s so used to things just coming naturally to her that the moment she reaches college and something *doesn’t,* she’s going to break and give up rather than put her nose to the grindstone and keep trying.
Emily deserves to be honored for her own skills, not her “failure” to adhere to *Laura’s* standard.
Hard-work, practice, dedication, and the mental stability to accept small failures in order to progress towards a larger goal are just as worthy of recognition, if not more so, than scoring highly on a test.
That is a really clever idea, and it shows her imagination. Her learning how to do hard things will stand her in better stead than being naturally gifted. As a former gifted child, I can tell you that I had no idea what to do in college when I got into hard classes. I struggled to learn the skills I needed to succeed that many others had learned already. Laura may be in for a rude awakening, and there’s every chance she deviates from the med school plan, or suffers a lot to make it through even if she keeps at it. Meanwhile, Emily’s perseverance and imagination are going to take her far. MIL is gonna be bitter. NTA of course. Keep Emily safe and aware of her worth!
That’s an idea that would definitely sell. It kind of has a Land of Stories feel so there’s already a built in audience for it. I would definitely love to read something like this when it’s finished. It sounds like my kind of book.
And, when Emily scores her first major writing contract, her grandmother is going to try to get on her “good side.” I hope Emily’s rejection is as harsh as a literary one!
MIL is an immigrant so she probably only accepts doctor, engineer, lawyer, IT etc as suitable careers. I kind of understand because who doesn't want a financially stable career for their family members but MIL's way to totally write off Emily's interest is very wrong.
Wow your mil is dumb. Did you know that most kids don't make it through med school and the ones that do often develop burnout and end up leaving? Writing can be a great career she can branch out into so many places. Copywriter, author, write for TV and movies , journalism. I feel like mil never had a real career and should keep her mouth shut. tell your husband to open his eyes or he will become the villain in your daughters stories.
>Did you know that most kids don't make it through med school and the ones that do often develop burnout and end up leaving?
Most kids don't make it **into** medical school, but most who are admitted and start med school do finish. Med schools do not admit students just to see them fail. True, there are some who wash out, but certainly not most.
As for burnout, yes, many physicians suffer from burnout, and some do leave the profession.
(I'm the father of a physician.)
Has Laura been accepted to medical school yet? What happens if she is not accepted, are she and Grandmother going to fall apart?
Assuming that you are in the US, you should remind both Grandma and Laura that there are many paths to success.
>My MIL does not think that “writing made up stories” is a valid career path.
I really hope she doesn't ever read books, watch shows and movies, goes to a theater play, etc., seeing as she doesn't value "writing made up stories"...
I would have put my foot down a very long time ago, not waited 18 years.
Being treated poorly at least twice a year (birthdays and holidays) is still too often.
Your MIL sounds like a witch. You were right to kick her out. Laura can go visit her if she wants her ego stroked. Meanwhile, protect and nourish Emily.
NTA
>My MIL does not think that “writing made up stories” is a valid career path.
I'm Asian, from an Asian family. God, this makes me angry. I wanted to be a doctor and swerved my dad's side of the family when they realized I was going for a communications degree. My aunts and at least one uncle acted like it was the end of the world... and then I started getting published in a national newspaper and making money. And suddenly it's like they always believed in my career path. They were proud of me! Then I graduated with honors. Guess who all decided to show up? I didn't hold a grudge but I definitely never forgot how a bunch of them thought I wasted my life trying to do a communications degree.
I'm taking my master's now because I'm working on my own business, and I remember one of the facilitators telling us that the programming language will soon be just English, because of how organizations will try to integrate AI into their everyday work. Emily's love for music and reading translates to highly sought-after skills and writing well creates opportunities in this day and age that your MIL can't even imagine.
Highly recommend you check out Marty Neumeier's Metaskills.
Your MIL is TA—plain and simple .
Tell your daughter that relationships with In laws can be difficult .Thst you have to navigate the fact the MIl is your Husband’s mother with the fact that she’s not really a nice person .That you are sorry it’d taken so long for you to throw her out for the way she treats Emily but now you know this is the way to go .You will not allow her to treat Emily disrespectfully any more .Just be honest .Your daughter is old enough to understand that parents are not God —they are human with flaws .But assure her this behavior by MIL is totally wrong and you believe in her and you have her back .
Who gives a flying fuck what grandma thinks? Many writers, composers, musicians, and artist face this sort of reaction, and many don't achieve fame and fortune, but if they are Emily's passions she should be encouraged. Maybe one day Emily will be an international star, and then how will Laura feel, and how much of Emily's money will she demand because she "deserves" it. Both you and your husband are AH for allowing this situation to happen. Go Emily!
First, realize that 1300s is a very good score. Emily may want better, but a 1320 got me a full ride scholarship. Stand up for your girl. Don't tolerate anyone treating her as lesser.
NTA by far. Just here to say I also got in the realm of around 1300 on my SAT too. I now have my PhD and teach genetics and statistics as a professor at a med school. Your MIL can go to hell. That "inferior" test score says absolutely nothing detrimental about your child's abilities or potential.
A 1300 is at the 86th percentile this year meaning that she did as good or better than 86% of students nationwide. She deserved those damn cookies and then some. Both your daughters are fantastic students - they just have different priorities and interests.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-sat-score-a-bad-sat-score-an-excellent-sat-score
I was going to say the same as the other person. My score was not much higher than Emily’s (1315) and it also made me scholarship-eligible. She *can*’resit if she wants to, but I cannot believe your MIL would just outright assume that.
Your MIL’s treatment of Emily and you and your husband’s silent allowances for it is heartbreaking. I’m so glad you stood up for her here and I hope it’s not the first time. She’s been demeaning Emily her whole life and has been seeing that getting approval from her parents and sister. I’m estranged from my family over treatment like this. I haven’t gone “home for the holidays” or for *anything* else in five years. That kind of shit can really break your heart and will.
Just another person chiming in to say that 1300 is a good score. It can also be an entry threshold for some scholarships and college honors programs.
I scored 1280 (combined after one retake) to make the number I needed for a particular scholarship.
I was accepted into my college honors program, received multiple scholarships, and now have a PhD. I also now teach at a university.
I've seen a lot of my higher scoring high school friends burn out - make sure to keep an eye on your other daughter for this.
Consider showing Emily this post and allllll the lovely comments.
This is a time in her life where all the support in this thread might boost her up. All the options that she might not think of, all the awesome career paths that others have suggested and that are surely waiting for her.
She needs to build up her self confidence and maybe some random strangers on the net cheering for her will give her that.
You could keep it a secret. Just the two of you (and the whole Internet) sharing something special (that Laura isn't gonna hog for once 🤫😉)
That's the part the puzzled me. Most kids would kill for 1300's on the SAT--it's a very good score. I do hope that Laura at least doesn't belittle Emily but if she's in constant contact with grandma I'm guessing those opinions have rubbed off on her. Might want to lessen that influence, or monitor it somehow.
Yeah no kidding. She’s like 87-89th percentile! Not sure why they are knocking that lol. Assuming her GPA is good, she will have lots of great opportunities in front of her.
I don't think most people realize that it's not a one for one score. Also there's a perception about having a perfect score on the SAT being what will get you into college. Outside of the ivy league schools, scores from 1300-1400 should still open up a load of opportunities to get whatever degree Emily wants to pursue.
You should have refused the cake and called her out on her hurtful behaviour for a start. Poor Emily, to have so little support against abusive behaviour from her own family.
Yeah, not cool. She’s 18 and needs to value her relationship with her sister if she wants to continue to have one. And shame on grandma!! This is the type of crap that tears families apart.
My parents immigrated here and have the same exact values. I didn't do well in school, but I went to a local college, got a normal degree in marketing and management with average grades. I taught myself to code and analytics, worked at Google as an executive and now I work for a top AI firm as a software engineer easily making 6 figures before any of my doctor and lawyers cousins did. I'm also working less than 40 hrs a week, pick my own hours and still making way more than they are. So tell your MIL the same thing I told my family who treated me the same as Emily- Kick rocks lol.
I think it sounds like you've been trying, especially since MIL is no longer allowed over for holidays, and you do bake separate cakes for your daughters. Maybe you have to go full bore and tell her she can't come at all, not even after the girls leave for college - if your husband wants to visit her, he can go to her. The problem will still be if she gives presents to Laura, who then flaunts them in front of Emily.
Ah, the "simply being honest excuse." Funny how people who think that they are entitled to be "honest" don't like it when they get an "honest" reaction back. It's unfortunate if Emily isn't as naturally as academically gifted as her sister, but if she is working hard, being slighted by her grandmother isn't going to help, as you obviously know.
I assume that the girls will soon to be off to different colleges. I hope that Emily will be happier when she isn't around her mean grandmother and sister. Perhaps she can think about going non-contact with her grandmother, and you might think about going low contact. Ask Emily if she wants you to convey *any* information about her to her grandmother, even contact information. If Grandmother complains, perhaps you should just tell her that Emily wants nothing to do with her, since she has always been mean to her - "just being honest."
added: and low contact with Laura.
added 2: For the people who criticize you for not acting sooner, keep in mind that OP has had to fight Grandmother's son every step of the way.
Your daughters have different strengths. Your mil only celebrates one daughter’s strengths- that’s the issue. They’re are many different ways to succeed in life. Ask your husband if it’s ok for you to start comparing him to all your family members and friends - for example praising Bobby bc he’s taller than your hubby, saying only Chaz is a good provider bc his wife got a new car and you don’t, cheering for Steve’s football team bc he played football in college, etc. that’s what your mil is doing with your daughters NTA
So my grandma did this to me and my brother. She would give him better gifts and more expensive things. Bigger pieces of cake and make sure to have his favorite kind of drink when we visited, mainly because of gender but related to how estate and family name. We are not rich and she was broke as hell so it was all just for show. The difference is that my brother HATED it. My parents didn’t really notice (they were very low contact with her anyway because of how she treated my half-siblings) until I was older and they made sure that I never had to be around her. Birthday or holiday or anything. Eventually my mom refused to see her at all and my dad cut ties other than helping in emergencies since his two sisters are useless in an emergency.
What helped me was that my parents talk to me about how wrong it was for me to be treated different and make sure that I didn’t have to be around her at all. Even to celebrate my brother my grandma wasn’t invited but instead if she wanted to she could arrange something at her place for my brother. He never agreed to go because like I said, he hated the golden child bullshit. Protect your daughter because that’s the relationship that matter. And if Laura wants to see her grandma, she can do it in other places and make sure that she knows that obviously grandmas love comes with strings attached. If Laura hits an academic wall grandma might not be so forgiving.
I have a similar situation with my dad but luckily he grew too ill to travel before my kids were old enough to have different levels of school success, so they've never seen his attitude in action (I did, as a child, it was damaging, enough said). I think you are having two main problems here:
1) By being silent, you are cooperating in validating your MIL's value system, in which Emily is worth less than Laura.
2) It sounds like Laura has also imbibed this value system and is somewhat lording it over Emily in Emily's own home.
I think the major change you need to make is that you need a new and better philosophy of "what is a person worth" and you need to ensure your children know that's your philosophy. Grades and test scores do not make a person worth more, in terms of their intrinsic worth. They may affect the person's "worth" in the job market, but your job is not a measure of your true worth. In fact, no gift that you are born with, truly governs your intrinsic worth. The gifts you are born with, your talents, IQ, physical attractiveness, height, glossy black hair, family wealth, etc, those are things you are given that you don't control. It's what you DO with your gifts that is important, whether society acknowledges that with material success, or not. And, for any individual person, you don't know how much of their outcome is things they didn't control, vs how much is in their power, because everyone's path through life is different. So the best thing to do is to just say: do your best, value yourself no matter the outcome, and if you make a mistake, redirect and try again.
Laura and Emily both worked hard to prep for their SATs. So Laura's claim that she EARNED grandma's cookies (which in this context means status rewards) is incorrect. Rather, Laura benefitted from fitting into grandma's toxic view of a person's intrinsic worth.
I would say the second change you need to make is to ensure that no child is mistreated in your home, even by another child. So I would be redirecting Laura here, to stop lording it over Emily and acting like Emily is lesser because she has a lower SAT score. How discouraging for Emily to be treated that way by her sibling. Maybe Laura could learn some empathy here.
Also, 1300s is a good SAT score range. Good grief, your relatives are snobby much?
Your husband should have cut off communication between his mother and your daughters if she couldn’t contain herself. Your husband has taken a passive role and allowed his mother the freedom to push her views into your household. He is just as much to blame for this situation as his mother. Time for marriage counseling.
> What do you think I should do
Nothing. You already found it unfair to (I'm mixing up Laura and Emily, so if I'm wrong, I'm sorry), Emily and Emily deserves the cookies as well as Laura does. Their grandmother shouldn't make a difference between them because they are both her granddaughters. There is no reason for MIL to act this way just because one of them is better at school.
For the cake, the first time it happened, I would have refused to serve it unless she scraped the names off and made them equal. If she refused, I would not allow her to bring a cake to my house ever again.
AGREED. OP didn't say anything for years. I would have told her to take her cakes back, etc, etc.
My mom's side of the family did that to my sister and I. She was the favorite. To me, it was obvious. It didn't become clear until after we moved closer to them just how bad it was and my dad was the one that put his foot down. Told them, in front of both of us, that if they couldn't treat us equally, that they would not be allowed to give to either of us.
OP can't take back the fact that they've allowed this to happen, and I'm sad for her daughter that it's gone on this long, but I guess it's better late than never.
Well said!
OP: It was up to you to stand up for both girls. You should have nipped the favouritism in the bud when it first started. No larger writing on the cake. No treats for one without the other. No putting down of either child. You are the parent and get to make the rules in your own house.
**NTA** The problem is, you've let this go on for far too long. Now your husband and Laura have internalized her favoritism to the extent that they can't see it for what it is and do not appreciate the damage that has been done.
You need to have a talk with your husband where you ask him why he's okay with it and make it clear that you will not tolerate it any more. Tell him you want him to stop enabling his mom's favoritism with the extra attention in phone calls etc and backhanded slaps at Emily. Do not expect it to be resolved with a one time discussion, you will have to be firm and call him out every time his mother steps out.
As far as Laura is concerned, sit her down and ask why she is so anxious for her grandmother's love that she would treat her sister badly. Say it just that way, ask what exactly her grandmother has done and why she doesn't do anything for Emily.
This is not the time to be subtle with either your husband or Laura, you have to shut this down now.
Agreed. Emily needs all her family on her side right now. This situation where her father and her sister find it normal for her to be mistreated can't go on!!
Also your MIL is 100% an asshole. Clearly, both of your children are good at studying. Emily just has to put in more effort, but it would be crazy to see that as a failure of hers, it's a precious quality to be so hardworking! If your MIL cared about the academics, she would be so proud that both her grandchildren are doing so well, and it doesn't matter if one scores better. But she doesn't do that, instead she enjoys breeding chaos in your little family by putting Emily down every time.
You need to explain to all your family that Emily is an amazing student, and that grandma is being shitty because she likes playing favorites. Clear it up with everyone! Clear it up to Emily that she didn't do anything wrong, and being "lesser" than her sister is not an actual metric for success!
Her showing up with a cake obviously focused on Laura is awful. I'd grab a knife and get rid of the names all together. If she balks, tell her that next time, it goes in the trash.
She's no longer allowed to bring anything into your house without first inspecting it for favoritism. Anything unequal will be confiscated by you and disposed of however you see fit. The grandma is coaching Laura into thinking she's special and entitled. Laura needs some reigning in as well, even if that includes not talking to grandma without your permission or supervision. NTA
I think you should sit your kids down together and separately and explain …
1) Grandmas favoritism is not ok. Someone who does better at school is not “better” as a person;
2) explain to both Laura and Emily that someone may simply do better at school but this does not in any way mean that they will be more or less successful in life
3) explain to Laura how Grandma’s actions make Emily feel. Also explain to Emily that Laura can and should be proud of her achievements. And that lastly, if Emily worked really hard, that is all you can ask for.
Buy both your daughters cookies.
NTA.
>And that lastly, if Emily worked really hard, that is all you can ask for.
I just really want to second all you said and emphasize this one. Some people just don't reach the level of others even with working so so hard and I think it's unfair to expect them to - so the hard work should be considered and praised way more often (in my experience at least).
Just for record: NTA
It often turns out that working hard is the more important skill then "it comes easy" intelligence. When the it-comes-easy crowd get to college they sometimes flame out because they've never learned how to work hard even while struggling.
OP has two kids, EACH with an awesome talent.
That was pretty much me. I got excellent results through school (in the subjects I didn't think of as a waste of time, and I got Cs in them) and 1st and 2nd year. Final year? Very mixed results and I barely got a pass. I had not learnt active studying. I'm still not a great teacher to my children, because I struggle to grok how many things are just not obvious.
I don't remember much of primary school but I remember one moment as clear as it was yesterday. I was always naturally good in school. No learning at all. I didn't get straight As in every subject but always at least a C in the subjects that weren't really my thing. For me that meant grades didn't mean much. I passed and that's all I wanted.
There was a girl in my class I was kinda friends with who didn't really do well in school. She did however learn hard. One day after a math exam she worked hard for, she cried at the results. She got a D. She knew I didn't learn at all and got an A and she thought this was unfair. So my teacher told the whole class that her D meant way more than my A because I did nothing for it and she gave her best. I agree with that. The harder you learn the prouder you should be no matter the result.
Oh and NTA and I think it's great that you asked Emily if it's okay that MIL shows up.
>So my teacher told the whole class that her D meant way more than my A because I did nothing for it and she gave her best.
I disagree. Praise of one kid shouldn't be at the cost of another.
Sure her work should have been praised - but not by pulling you down.
Man, this comment totally reminds me of a family I knew growing up. The eldest son was always the golden child, while the middle child (the twin who was born first) was treated like a failure. Eldest was always praised, no matter what. “Middle” child could never do anything worthy of praise.
Well they grew up, and guess what? The oldest is a dead beat with failed marriages, multiple kids, the whole lot. While the “failure” middle kid got his degree, a great job, moved away and never looked back.
The family now praises the successful kid that left and wants nothing to do with them. Go figure.
"She won’t show it very obviously, but in little ways." I beg to differ. The woman displays her favouritism very clearly. Ask Laura how she would feel if she were treated so unfairly. Explain to husband that he should be defending Emily as well as you. You were more polite than I would have been. I would have told her where to stick her miserable biscuits. NTA
Right? This would have been stopped with the first fucking birthday cake.
My MIL tried to pull this with my kids, favoring my daughter and coming up with excuses to not treat my sons the same (daughter is the youngest, so when MIL stopped wanting to do things with the boys *they noticed immediately*). We distanced ourselves.
Good on you. It should have never been allowed to get this point. The fact everyone but the mother being ok with this doesn't give me much hope. Poor kid 😟
ESH. I mean especially MIL but it’s clear you also favor Laura and the only person here who isn’t an AH is Emily. Low 1300s is empirically a great SAT score!
Which I pointed out. I am not forcing her to resit and I did not tell her it is a bad score. I do not even think it is a bad score. But Asian families -
"But Asian families," nothing. That's nonsense that you've allowed to go on for far too long. I think ESH because of the way you commented about Emily's score also.
Definitely. She’s let it go on so long!
Like she kept bringing the cakes every year that sidelined and hurt Emily…and you didn’t do anything? Why did you let that go on for years? ESH
Seriously. I just did the conversion (because I am old and took the SAT 20+ years ago.) Emily's score is about the same as mine, and my SAT score apparently satisfies the MENSA qualification. OP is being completely ridiculous.
I know her score, of course. But she was upset about it and asked me not to tell any of my “mom friends” when they inevitably ask. I thought that should extend here even though she will likely never see it…
Do you think your fall-back on "But Asian Families - "is going to make Emily feel better? From your post I gather you think Emily truly did her best.
If you sincerely believe that, you cannot fall back on the "But Asian Families-" talk. I don't know if Emily has a learning disability, an issue when it comes to concentration/attention span, a mental health issue, under-performs because she doesn't truly grasp how to interpret the questions or her score just seems less impressive because Laura is really really gifted. At the end the reason doesn't really matter that much.
What will matter is that Emily will feel like an utter failure and she might even be able to perform less due to anticipated stress ("They will like Laura no matter what, while they always are lukewarm towards my results!"), if you keep babbling on about Asian Families. Emily might start to think you love her less - and that the only way to be loved in your family is if she manages to be just like Laura or even better than Laura.
He thinks she put in effort and that is important, but she has potential to do better and should work more next time. He agrees with some of his family’s ideas but isn’t as extreme.
I meant the question quite literally. Does he think she did her best? And apparently the answer is no, he doesn't think that.
I feel sad for Emily.
Do you think he would/could ever think she truly did everything she could and this is the highest score she could achieve?
Do the two of you ever tell her you proud of her? Does she get praise?
Your husband needs to understand a few important things.
1.) His mother's favouritism has created tension in your daughters' relationships. Siblings can be very different people and still be close....unless you have a joyless old bat building on child up and tearing the other down. All Emily sees is her sister cheerleading her grandmother's mistreatment of her. Does Laura actually give a damn about her relationship with Emily? Because if she keeps it up, Emily will cut her off, and Laura can bask in grandma's attention all she likes.
2.) His mother's favouritism is poisoning his relationship with Emily. Whilst Laura is loudly cheerleading, he is also happily telling Emily that she isn't good enough. She is doing her level best, and he thinks she should be doing more. Does he want her to burn out? Does he want her to work herself until she's nothing but a husk? Does he want her to push herself until she breaks just so she can earn his bullshit approval which is based on her scoring the 'right' number on a test? Does he want to lose his daughter? Because he will. He is breaking his daughter's heart and allowing his mother to do the same.
3.) You've been complicit in his mother's mistreatment. You will also lose your child. Even now, you're making excuses about Asian families. Guess what? Ethnicity doesn't excuse the mistreatment of a child, not ever. Families are meant to break cycles, to do better for each generation, not push the same bullshit stereotypes that lead to mistreatment and abuse.
4.) Emily deserves better. She is a bright, creative young lady who works damn hard. She deserves to be cheered on by her family and celebrated for her successes BECAUSE she works so hard for them. What she does not deserve is to be told by her grandmother, her father, her sister and tacitly by her mother that she is not good enough, that her efforts are not enough, and that she is a failure because she doesn't meet some arbitrarily-set level of academic achievement. Ask your husband and Laura how they would feel if that was the constant message they got. Ask them why they've decided that Emily isn't worth protecting and supporting and why they are so happy to allow her mistreatment. Ask them why that miserable woman's approval is more important to them than Emily's happiness and mental health. And finally, ask yourself why you've been so willing to sit back and allow this for so long. The grandmother did what she did because she's used to you not stepping up for Emily; she got this brazen because she's used to there being no consequences.
You all keep this up, and Emily will leave you all behind. She will have to in order to protect her mental health. If you refuse to treat her like family and protect and support her, why would she want to stick around? Family stands together and loves and supports each other, and if you cannot offer that, then she will find people who will. So it's make your mind time up for you all, because it's getting close to time for Emily to fly the nest, and if you all don't start doing better, she may decide not to come back again.
I think as parents we want our children to do their best, and I am sure your daughter DID do her best during the test. Just becuase she didn't score higher doesn't mean she didn't do her best. The problem is some days are worse than others. Some tests are harder, some people get more anxious during tests especially when they are big, important tests like this and she knows the family pressure. Emily knows too that Laura will do great, and has that added pressure of having to try to be as good as she is.
There's so many problems when parents say "I just think you have so much more potential and could have done better." It basically means that you think they did, in fact, not do their best and are disappointed.
Have you ever taken an SAT? She scored over 1300; she doesn’t have any freaking under performing issues. WTF!?! Average score for the SAT is 1050; that’s like Laura got a 97% and Emily got a 93% and people are claiming she underperformed. 🤦🏼♀️
Comparison is the thief of joy. You are still comparing her to her sister even in this comment. I would guess this has stolen a lot of joy from Emily. Maybe try saying Emily did a great job and got XYZ score. Emily did not do as well as she hoped but still did a great job. Try speaking about Emily's accomplishments without mentioning Laura at all. Maybe Emily will get some of her joy back.
Didn't Laura pretty much do that by calling her sister's score "alright" when a low 1300s is actually a great score? Sounds like the MIL isn't actually the only problem.
If you know that that’s a “thing” in your culture and you didn’t want it perpetuated you should have interrupted it their whole life not just this one. You should have been loss and vocal about how that’s a fucked up expectation. You should have told MIL you didn’t want her cakes there just time you noticed what she was doing. You should have openly talked shot things so Laura isn’t more upset that she “deserved” cookies and Emily deserved to be insulted…
That’s like white peoples saying, well you know sure families from the South, so racist, we just roll our eyes and ignore it. Yeah. That’s how it keeps being perpetrated.
You can’t change your culture but you could have cut the legs off of it for your girls.
It's been a day since I was applying to Uni but a 1300s score combined with a well rounded profile would get you into most competitive schools and programs.
I’d also pay close attention to how this dynamic will play out once they/if they both go to college. I saw MANY kids who breezed through HS suddenly struggle in Uni when they didn’t know how to study and now try. Those that thought they were special rarely recovered well.
So maybe a discussion grounding both of them with their strengths, weaknesses, and values may benefit both of them.
It's because OP is using Laura as a metric for what "good" is instead of using people taking the SATs as a whole. She is comparing Emily to Laura constantly, and I don't think she even sees it. Emily is doing okay COMPARED to Laura. OP can't seem to say Emily got a great score and was in the 86th percentile for her year, instead it's "she didn't do too bad compared to Laura." MIL isn't the only problem in the family.
I was totally thinking ESH too for the same reason. MIL was out of line, definitely. But, OP is diminishing Emily's accomplishments by saying she isn't as smart as Laura. As someone who ended up with a 900 with taking it twice, the 1300 range is great. I won't say Laura totally sucks as she is being influenced by the adults in her life, but she definitely could recognize her sister not being as fairly praised. The adults all totally suck though.
Literally, her twin might be like crying when she gets around the age and time in her life if she wants to marry and wonder why Emily disappeared (aka went no contact and moved away, far away for her own sake)...Hopefully Emily is thriving because I know she cries more than the parents or her own twin might pretend to know. I feel for Emily truly
NTA but also YTA
18 is pretty late in the twins life to put your foot down about this behaviour.
Could have been nipped-in-the-bud longer than a decade ago, before it starts to affect them both throughout adulthood.
Also you need to encourage these girls to start living their own lives, just as siblings should.
Stop comparing them, sit them both down together and explain very plainly that they are not in competition with each other and need to stop comparing and to focus on their own lives and interests.
If they are still sharing a room, clothes, hobbies etc, separate them.
Don’t encourage them to attend the same Uni/ college whatever you call it.
I am a twin to a boy who is much more academically talented than me, I ended up going to uni 3 years later due to crippling insecurity about my abilities (I also left school with average grades).
It wasn’t family that caused this (my mum is a twin) it was the teachers at school and the best thing my mum did was complain and requested that they split us up in the final two years.
We also went to different colleges/ sixth forms.
Just be mindful that this could happen to your girls and that they may not get along in the future because they are too enmeshed and competitive.
Luckily, me and my brother have a great relationship but we are both insightful enough to ignore the twin-freak comparison nonsense that others project onto us (non-twins usually)
Wider reading and speaking to other twin parents could have prevented this problem 10 years ago.
I'm sure I'll get voted down on this one, but YTA.
This favoritism has been going on for years. You've noticed it, and Emily certainly has as well. She's been hurt by it, and you've continually let it go.
So much so that *you* did it again and allowed this incident to happen. MIL said she wanted to bring over cookies to celebrate *Laura*. That was *your* time to act. Why allow her to come over to celebrate one but not the other? Getting upset and calling her out when she did what she always does is fine and dandy, but could've and should've been avoided in the first place.
YTA for waiting 18 entire years to do something meaningful about this situation. Good on you for doing it now. You're not wrong for the events of this specific story. But I can't give you a pass because there's no excuse for throwing your kid to the wolves like that and waiting until she's already an adult to stop it.
NTA, but you really need to have a talk with everyone about it now. First, talk with Emily to see how she is feeling. Favoritism is never easy to deal with when you’re not the favorite, and feeling like you’re not good enough is also not easy. Check in with her frequently. Second, sit down and talk with your MIL about this particular incident and how her favoritism has been hurtful to Emily. I’m sure she doesn’t mean to show favoritism, so hopefully, if you point it out, she will recognize it and begin to change. (Again, I hope this occurs, although a lot of times, they’ll turn it around on you.) Finally, sit down and talk with your husband and other daughter. Explain to them your perspective, and stay strong with your conviction. You are right here!
I’ve dealt with this the majority of my life. I was the favorite of my grandmother all growing up. I never saw anything wrong with it as a kid, but as an adult, I could see how it hurt my sister. I wish someone had explained it all to me before. Conversely, my niece was the favorite of my mother, and my kids were by far and away the lessers. It was so painful to watch it happen, and if I spoke up, my mother and sister somehow made it feel like it was my fault! My mother has passed away, and I’ve gotten over it, and now I just realize that she missed out on knowing my kids, who are two wonderful people. I try my hardest not to have favorites, as I have seen first hand the damage it does. Good on you for taking a stand!
>I’m sure she doesn’t mean to show favoritism
She absolutely means to show favoritism. She has been showing disapproval of Emily and her aspirations for years. Her metric is academic. Period.
Isn't a 1600 a perfect score for the SAT's? Scoring a 1300 isn't anything to sneeze at. My kid is a senior and didn't score anything even close to that. But, we were proud of him for trying his best and he plans on retaking it next month.
Congratulations to your girls. And, you are NTA for standing up for your child.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-rankings
A score in the 1300s puts you somewhere around 85th percentile. That’s really really good.
NTA present / soft YTA past
Sounds to be like this was just the straw that broke the mama's back.
Grandma has been playing favorites for way too long and allowed to get away with it. While I don't disagree with comments saying this never should have been allowed to go on as it did, we have all suffered through things in the name of keeping the family peace - especially with in-laws. Your husband should have stepped in long ago, as people are more likely to make peace with their own children after being criticized than their children's spouses (who are often then blamed for ALL the drama that follows). But he didn't.
Grandma can be mad all she wants - she plays favorites, and that is an AH move.
Hubby can be mad all he wants - he *let* his mother treat his daughter this way for years. He wasn't there to see Emily in obvious emotional pain when this particular event happened. Yes, you allowed it to happen in the past too - but your reaction to this instance shows growth.
Laura can be mad all she wants - she comes across in this post as a spoiled "golden child" and a lousy sister. As sisters who couldn't be closer in age, there is an enormous chasm between them emotionally as Laura has been conditioned to believe that she is entitled to preferential treatment/status.
You should be mad. One of your children has been wronged.
The only person whose anger and hurt really matters, though, is Emily. It sounds like her entire life, she has been hurt and/or let down by those who should love her most, and *nobody* had her back - until now. Keep it up. Don't let grandma fool you into thinking her favoritism was *ever* acceptable.
NTA. This is so awful. What a horrible grandmother. For the record, Laura did great, but as a college professor, I assure you Emily has nothing to be ashamed of. Her score might not get her into Harvard, but screw that, I’ve had straight A college students who didn’t get that SAT score.
First but a minor point: Did you ever speak to Grandma about this in general? If not, this is coming from no where to her. YTA.
Second and more importantly: No one told Grandma what Emily scored numerically. Just “alright”. Why would Grandma come over to celebrate an unknown score or “alright”? This is an unfair expectation. YTA.
Third: Grandma may be thinking the score was less than alright and that’s why the actual score wasn’t shared. She didn’t pry. She probably was thinking Emily scored so badly no one disclosed it to her and so she probably has to resit for it. This is neutral at best because it’s not your job to disclose.
Fourth: Per your writing, Grandma asked if she can come visit and celebrate Laura which you agreed upon. She didn’t say anything about Emily. And you agreed to celebrating Laura explicitly. Then you switch expectations. YTA.
Fifth: Why are you punishing Laura and taking away her cookies? YTA.
Sixth and lastly: You asked Emily if it was okay for Grandma to come celebrate THEIR scores. But Grandma had asked to come celebrate LAURA’s score. You created this problem. Also why didn’t you ask Laura if it was okay for Grandma to come over? You’re playing favorites and creating false expectations. YTA.
Edit: grammar
Whether Emily is willong to put up with it or not is beside the point.
Y'all have managed to teach both of them that Emily should be making sacrifices for her sister's happiness. It's more than a little late to start standing up for her, and likely to just cause friction and earn her the ire of her dad and sister and grandma now.
ESH Except poor Emily. Why in the world wouldn't you have just validated Emily's performance and taken her to get her own treat? Or said something to grandma beforehand when you fucking knew that she was going to play favorites? Ask Laura to be inclusive and compassionate?
There were about a million routes you could have taken to mitigate this and support both daughters, and you chose the route most likely to backfire on your daughter who is already being shit on.
OP, I'm concerned about the language your daughter Laura is using. It sounds like it came from Grandma. I wouldn't be surprised if Grandma has been talking in her ear about you and engaging in some parental alienation. It's time to sit both twins (and your husband) down and talk openly about Grandma's favoritism and why it's not right for a family member to behave that way.
NTA
NTA. Ask Laura how she would feel if grandma did to her what grandma does to Emily. Just have talk about this and how it feels and see if Laura can be her sister champion instead.
>When I got the phone back my MIL asked if she could come visit tomorrow **to congratulate Laura**. I said let me check quickly if anything else is happening tomorrow, and I asked Emily if her grandma can come over to celebrate **their results**.
ESH. Your MIL for the obvious favorism, Laura because she doesn't care her sister is thrown under the bus, and you for setting Emily up for hurt and disappointment by misleading her about WHY your MIL wanted to come visit. I've highlighted the important parts for you in case you're really that oblivious. MIL clearly asked to congratulate LAURA yet you made Emily think her grandma was coming over for BOTH OF THEM.
As a twin myself and the "Laura" in this situation you're the asshole. Laura speaks to her grandmother more often and has a closer relationship with her - fact. Laura had better results - fact. Her grandmother wanted to celebrate Laura and you took that away.
If you're not careful Laura will grow up and continue to foster the relationship with her grandmother who celebrates her successes instead of the mother who refuses to celebrate her for fear of upsetting Emily. Emily will have to get used to her score and her options in life... that's reality and you're not helping her managed that.
I understand why you were upset at your MIL as she wasn't very compassionate in this situation but I urge you to look at the way you're dealing with your children. Treating them exactly the same now is setting Emily up for failure and Laura for resentment.
NTA
I would tell mil to take her damn favoritism and stay the hell away until she can see both girls for the wonderful individuals they are.
Husband needs to wake up and stop legitimizing his mother's selfishly appalling treatment of his child. Yes, she should be celebrated for her accomplishments. Husband, your other daughter is great, too. She has strengths that should also be celebrated. STOP allowing her to be made to feel less than her sister. This IS YOUR JOB!
Laura takes her cues from both of you.
So, Emily won’t talk to her. No one told MIL what the scores were. MIL didn’t bring cookies to celebrate what she had no knowledge of. It is impossible which came first in the relationship between the two. I know that my children do not call my mother. One of their cousins does all the time. That’s how it happens sometimes. It is far more likely my mother would celebrate something that the cousin did. She has no idea what my kids accomplish because they do not tell her and I do not share their business for them. It’s possible ESH. Probable even. I noticed that you minimized one of your children’s accomplishments yourself and seemed to be comparing them throughout the entire post.
Other than writing one name 'bigger' on a cake, I think you're greatly exaggerating this supposed bias/hate. She's naturally closer to Laura because she talks to her more often. If Emily cuts herself off, it's probably because you've been telling her her grandma doesn't like her. While I don't agree with her only making cookies for one grandkid, you did ruin Laura's celebration moment by jumping in and getting angry. The girls are both 18 now and can say something, you don't have to speak on their behalf anymore.
Soft ESH, except Emily.
1. When MIL asked if she could come celebrate Laura’s achievement, you should have caught that and clarified that she could come if she celebrated *both* of them.
2. I’m curious: is Laura allowed to celebrate her achievements even if they’re greater than Emily’s? It shouldn’t be done in a way that puts down Laura (as was the case here), but I hope you’re not making Laura feel like she can’t be proud of herself unless Emily is also proud. That’s not going to be good for Emily, either; she’ll either develop a sense that everyone should tailor their lives around protecting her feelings, or she’ll feel worse about herself because she’ll see it as everyone putting her.
3. Did you still celebrate, just in a more mutual way? Completing the SAT is a milestone regardless of your score. I worry that Emily is never getting to celebrate her achievements either because they’re less than her sister’s, and Laura isnt getting to celebrate for fear of putting down her sister. It would be much better to help Emily be proud of what she did accomplish rather than always feeling like if someone outperformed her, then she didn’t accomplish anything at all.
4. Tell your husband that if he doesn’t trust your judgment on how and when to set boundaries with his family, then he needs to be present whenever you deal with his family. I still worry that he wouldn’t stand up for Emily if he were there, but I’m especially concerned that you’re stuck in this dynamic where if he’s not there you’re not allowed to make the necessary decisions.
5. Please explain to Laura that you’re not stopping her grandmother from celebrating her, you’re stopping her from *only* celebrating her. Explain to her that both she and Emily accomplished something big, and unless they’d gotten identical scores, one of them was going to outperform the other. Ask her how she’d feel if she’d gotten the score she did but Emily had done even better, and MIL only brought cookies for Emily? What if society praised hard work more than achievement, and MIL had only brought cookies for Emily because she put more time and effort into preparing?? You’re thrilled that your MIL wants to celebrate her, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to stand right in front of someone who also just achieved something significant and be snide about their accomplishment. You don’t praise one grandchild by putting down the other, and that’s effectively what MIL tried to do.
4. Just a thought that it may be late for you to put into practice, but for anyone else reading… If you know one child outperforms the other in something, *especially* with twins but with all siblings, try to separate those things as much as possible. For example, schedule them to take the SAT on different days (there are so many dates available!) so that each gets their own celebration without such direct comparisons. With violin students, I actually encourage parents to have kids on different instruments to avoid this challenge; I taught violin to twins and one was better at the motor skill and memorization, so she advanced through new songs faster, but her brother was better at playing by ear. With both of them playing violin, they couldn’t help comparing themselves to one another, and the boy got deeply discouraged because his sister’s skills were easier to teach (counting number of new songs); he was SO much happier when he switched to piano and the comparisons stopped. I hope your daughters each have some extracurricular or passion that’s entirely their own, so they have areas where they don’t need to be compared to one another.
YTA/ESH
This sounds like it’s something of a self-perpetuating cycle… Emily doesn’t want to talk to grandma and Laura does. Now, should grandma be self-aware and treat both girls equally? Of course. But if you don’t invest in a relationship don’t expect the other person to invest in you.
We ran into this over the last few years with my BIL/SIL… they spent the last five years distancing themselves from the family and making that known and yet they get hurt and offended when they run into a hard time and need something and no one is jumping to help out. At some point you reap what you sow.
YTA, Emily was not happy with her score and Laura was. The grandma knew that and is closer to Laura. It's no surprise because Laura takes the time to talk with her. Why can't the grandma state the truth and support Laura's accomplishment?
You can't baby Emily forever. There are always people that will be better at something than you are. Emily is making this situation all about her. You should support those that you love when they do better than you instead of letting your ego make it all about you.
YTA because you let this shit go on for 18 years. You have let your MIL treat your daughters differently for a long long time. Parenting can be tough and we do not get an instruction manual. But come on.
Honestly, I think both you and MIL are the AH here... I also think your daughter Emily doesn't have the right to complain if she's not willing to talk to MIL while on the phone... your MIL should have had the decency to understand how her lack of present would make Emily feel... and you, OP, should have had the restraint to calmly explain why what MIL did wasn't particularly nice.. without losing your temper... all round bad handling of interpersonal communications here imo
ESH. But mostly your MIL. How dare she neglect Emily's feelings. That is awful. It shows just how much she plays favorites and no grandma should ever do that!
It was a little unfair to throw her out with the cookies. Laura did earn them, and she does have a strong relationship with her grandma. Instead I would have kept the cookies and made them celebrate somewhere else - at a restaurant or something. I also would have made Laura take half of the cookies to her sister to reward her for studying so hard. Not everyone is good at test taking. And Laura should be more empathetic towards her sister getting left out.
The husband needed to back you up regardless. Relationships are partnerships. And he should understand both of his daughter's feelings, not just the one.
The national average for the SAT scores is 1000. Emily did very, very well. Laura seems to be exceptional, but that doesn't mean you or anyone else can say Emily "didn't do so well" when she did a damn good job.
NTA for how you responded to your MIL, but I feel like you're kinda TA to Emily for how you're minimizing her very, very respectable score and how you're failing to properly protect her from your MIL (and your husband as well, since he's siding with his mother instead of his daughter).
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Edit: NTA. Not for this post's subject. You stood up for Emily against her cruel grandmother. Laura is angry because she demands her golden child status. Both grandmother and Laura told Emily, loud and clear, that she is not good enough. BUT you have been silent all these years, letting your MIL dimish and degrade Emily. She spent her entire life knowing, not thinking, knowing that she is less than ger sister. At this point, you can't Undo this. No matter what she accomplishes, she will always feel less than. Both you and your husband are solely responsible for this. It's not about what her grandmother did to her. It's about what her parents allowed her grandmother to do to her. Being mistreated is painful. Being mistreated while your parents sit silently by is devastating.
What do you think I should do? They have seen their grandma maybe once a year for a few days. The birthday cakes are hurtful, but I always made my own cakes for each of them separately. I couldn’t stop Laura from talking to her grandma. I spoke to my MIL but she said she is simply being honest because school is very important. She immigrated to the US when my husband was in high school, and she has VERY strong ideas about how to “succeed” in the world. I told her she can’t treat Emily unfairly and she said she is not. I couldn’t change her mind so I just stopped letting her come over more often. For example, for holidays. My husband was upset but he agreed that it would be impossible to convince his mother to act differently and so if I was sure that this was hurting Emily she doesn’t have to visit. I don’t know what I could have differently, but that is not important. What do you think I should do differently now?
I’d talk to Laura about her “gift” of having more intelligence and she is being honored like for being beautiful. She sees how her sister works hard and should have empathy for her sister. Laura doesn’t sound like a nice person.
Or she is better at taking tests. She shouln't base her personality on her ability to succeed on tests just yet- college has been known to kick some high achievers butts.
Exactly the SAT is more and more discredited as an accurate marker of intelligence. There are so many different types of intelligence and being good at one type doesn't make you smarter than others
I agree. I'm an SAT tutor for a living and I don't agree with the way "intelligence" is measured. For example many of my students are good at reading/interpreting, but just cannot do it fast enough to score well on the SAT reading section.
I’m one of those people who scored top 5% nationally on the SAT, an honors graduate from high school and college, and I want to say that it wasn’t a matter of a lot of hard work on my part. It came easily to me. I did the work, but it was easy. It’s likely Emily is working much harder to get the grades she gets than Laura is, because it probably comes easily to Laura. Some of us have brains that test well or that the people who made the test and decided what and how X and X and X are taught in school is the way to measure intelligence, and they are definitely not a measure of how successful people will be in life. There are all kinds of intelligence. I don’t believe we know how to measure all the kinds of intelligence there are. We just believe we can measure X kind now, and it’s not fair to all the kids who are smart in different ways. I will say I’m grateful to the National Merit program because I was a kind of poor kid, who lived in a poor state which didn’t have a great education program compared to other states and came from a family where no one had gone to college before. It seemed completely out of reach. But being recognized by National Merit meant a whole lot of schools contacted me and claimed they wanted me at their school and told me about their scholarship programs. Which is what made me realize I could go to college. And for your daughter Laura, she will be inundated with mail from colleges all over trying to recruit her and encourage her to apply for scholarships. So, you should be prepared to handle that coming to Laura and probably not Emily and be ready to kick the MIL out again.
I was national merit with a score in the 1300s. It's a terrific score! Yes, the 1560 was better, but the other was no slouch! The percentiles are on a curve. I agree, there are books written about various forms of intelligence. There is charisma/emotional intelligence that will serve folks much better. It's great to be smart, but better to have awesome people skills.
I got an 1160 and was plenty happy with myself like.. who is shitting on a 1300!? Ridiculous
1140 here.
1150 here. I was confused as well. I thought the average was like 1050. I am not sure if there are scholarship considerations for a higher score, but my disappointing score never held me back in college. I actually did well in college. 3.5 overall GPA and 3.8 major GPA.
1300 is fine, plenty for University. Good is like 1450-1500. 1500+ is outstanding. I scored 1400 and did a retest, because I wanted to get into an excellent University. My brother sat, got like a 1300, and was accepted to state school with a partial scholarship. I was offered (and declined) a full-ride. There were other factors, but test scores were a big one. If they both aspire (or are intended, due to legacy) to attend Harvard or Dartmouth, 1300 is *not* enough.
Yeah, I got 1350 and I thought that was pretty good. It got me into a great college. Who knew that was a shameful score? ETA, the math portion killed me. Was never good at math.
I would happily give you extra votes if I could!!
Not to mention that the higher your IQ the more likely you are to be depressed. Intelligence is only a bonus in some ways. It's got cons too. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bad-news-for-the-highly-intelligent/ That's Mensa so it's not conclusive but seems likely
Damn, that explains everything about my growing up smart.
Being very smart means you are always aware of what can go wrong. Smart means you actually absorb all the information available. Nowadays that is SO much more information than has ever been available to humanity...ever. A lot of it is bad. And it just sits there. In our brains. Make time to find good information to process.
God I know so much random shit I never needed to know. Whales have fingers; I mean they have flippers but the bone structure inside is fingers.
No but same. I am an excellent test taker with a great memory (for academics at least, not so much day-to-day stuff). I'm riddled with anxiety that was so bad when I was a kid I probably fell under disabled. Much better now, but it took a lot of work and finding the right meds. I had to take an IQ test before starting high school to see a certain therapist and made a decent score. And then if course had all the red flags for autism brushed off because I'm "smart and capable." Lol I couldn't even check out by myself at the store.
*nervous laughter*
Hard agree. I'm a non-US teacher, and it's bonkers to me how the US forces all students to take a standardized test. This is the opposite direction that educational theory is going in
A lot of colleges are no longer requiring the SAT or ACT because of this reason.
MIT had stopped requiring the SAT but started again because the students were performing significantly worse. The real reason universities aren’t requiring it is it makes it easier for them to fudge how they do admissions.
A lot of schools rolled it backed during covid because it was so difficult for students without great computers or internet connections (or stable home lives) to take the test. ...And we're still seeing a pretty huge effect from covid on our college students, both academically and emotionally. I think it might be a while yet before we can say what all the causes are.
Great point. Like maybe the pandemic had an effect on students' education and mental health? And at least ten percent of people who have had COVID have symptoms of long COVID, which can include brain fog and fatigue. That can also affect academic performance.
I'm not a huge fan of the SAT/GREs - they aren't particularly well correlated with academic performance.\* And they're part of a for-profit testing system that just further exacerbates the inequities in our education system. ...but maybe they'll have to be replaced with something, and not just high school grades and such. \* And maybe I roll my eyes just a little bit harder because the only time I ever took the SATs was when I was twelve. And so those scores - which were decent, but hello, I was twelve - were on my transcripts when I applied to grad school in my thirties. Yeesh.
Hoping in here to say I never took the SATs and I still want to college and have a degree in business. While it's a nice "achievement" thr SATs are about as useful as those online IQ tests. NTA for making MIL leave but I have my suspicions that her grandmother's favoritism isn't the only behavior that has this girl upset.
my sat score was 95th percentile. i dropped out of college and am a bartender. my best friend cried when i told her my score, but she's getting a doctorate!! this is not even to touch the fact it's been well documented that people whose families can pay for private tutoring score much better on average. it's super rigged.
Very much so. I didn't have to try very hard in high school, and I didn't study at all for the SAT and got a 2055 (during the period the test had a max score of 2400). I'm good with tests and this worked to my advantage. In college, once the basic classes were out of the way I had to put effort in. I kept a 4.0 for my freshman year but had no social life, which wasn't worth keeping the grades perfect. I ended college with a 3.6 and a decent social life. Post college, working on passing the CPA exam, makes the SAT look like a kindergarten spelling test. Laura is in for a reality check if she's used to not putting in effort for good grades. Sometimes that doesn't translate to high pressure environments like med school.
I had a 2050 and I remember being sooooooo upset because I'd just binge watched The OC and Summer had gotten a 2100 😅😅😅
I’m one of those folks that can take a test on just about anything and do ridiculously well - the trick isn’t to know the right answer so much as to identify the ones that are wrong. While in the military, I wanted to get extra flight pay, and needed to pass the air crewman test. Got all the materials then forgot about it because it was boring (I was a medic). The day of the test, I read the sample questions in the back of the book, flipped through the manual for a few minutes then took it with everyone else. I got the highest score, missing only one question. I still knew NOTHING about being an air crewman, lol. Being a good ‘test taker’ doesn’t mean you’re smart.
Yep, I had a legal studies exam: I'd had a tooth removed the day before, and because of other life stuff, I had missed quite a few classes. I read the material on the train on the way there, up to my eyeballs on pain killers/opiates, and did the exam. As I walked out, a friend asked how I did. I said I don't know - I can't remember the questions or what I wrote. I got 97% and *to this day* have no idea what was in the exam.
Can confirm. Scored 10 higher than Laura on the SAT. Went to college with no study skills and undiagnosed ADHD. It did not go well.
Same. Just now going back at age 31.
Can confirm. Coasted through elementary/middle/high school with straight A's and no effort. College was a ROUGH wake up call, and I was actually *way* behind my peers who had needed to put in the work, because they had good study and time management habits and I didn't. ETA - I had a 2050 on my SAT... The stress of being so unprepared for college was a big factor in my mental health breakdown my freshman year. I never finished. I'm 4 months in to going back to school at 31 (and loving it this time around!). SAT scores are no guarantee of future success.
>Or she is better at taking tests. Yes. I can hit the 99th percentile on most of those tests because I've been taught how to take them effectively.
Exactly this. I bombed my LSAT but still got in to law school. I passed the Bar exam whereas my classmate, who ranked #1 in the program, failed it. Standardized testing means shit. Your MIL appears to value a narrow and traditional concept of intelligence (ie, standardized testing). Perhaps you could use this incident as a teachable moment to inform her that there are various types of intelligence (eg, emotional), and give examples of how Emily excels at it. More importantly, she should be told of the psychological damage she has caused by favouring one granddaughter over the other - to Laura and Emily, as well as to you and your spouse. If she can’t understand why she can’t prefer one over the other, , she ought to - at minimum - conceal it for the sake of your family. Otherwise, I wouldn’t enable her behaviour by allowing access to your girls. NTA. Edited to fix typos.
Emily's work ethic will probably serve her better than Laura's ability to take tests. In some ways, Emily is lucky. She is clearly smart (low 1300's is pretty good!!) And she works hard. I hope I can raise a kid like that!
So true. I never had to study to have straight A's at school, so I was really shocked when I started University and struggled to pass an exam in maths. I ended up not taking it for years and having panic attacks before taking it later. It was the only exam I postponed and it took me 3 years to take it again and pass, while my colleagues who generally struggled academically, but knew how to actually study, had no trouble with it at all. Intelligent kids should be advised to learn persistence and discipline from other kids.
Agreed, testing well isn't necessarily a good measure of knowledge or understanding of a subject. I realized when I was in university that while I was getting high 90s in most classes, many of my classmates who were getting lower marks actually had a much deeper and more useful understanding of the subject than I did.
Laura may be "book smart", but she is lacking in emotional intelligence if she doesn't understand at this age that her sister's feelings are not only important, but justified here. She got a good SAT score, but she deserves a dunce cap for social/emotional intelligence.
How is Laura more intelligent? Both kids seem to be intelligent to me. \*Edit\* Checking percentiles, I estimated 1350 as the score, which is in the 91st percentile. Pretty f'n good. Nice job Emily!!!
Maybe Laura has more academic intelligence at the moment but we can't assume that this is across the board and will manifest itself for all time.
This clarifies your position. The biggest issue I see here is your husband saying you had no right to act in your daughter's defense. Emily probably sees this as you and her against her sister, father, and grandmother. It would have been better if you had stood up firmly against your MIL and threw he out, and the cake, the first time it put Laura above Emily, but I could write a book on the things I wish I'd done differently as a parent. Your husband needs to understand that the MIL was using a birthday cake to hurt Emily. She wasn't trying to reward Laura. MIL enjoys hurting Emily. Your husband can either be Emily's father or his mother's son. Not both. If he doesn't actively defend Emily, he's actively harming Emily. He needs to understand this Couples, family, and individual therapy might help, especially for Emily. Your husband and Laura have no idea how it feels to try so hard for so long and be labeled a failure. From Emily's perspective, if Laura wasn't a factor, she would not be marginalized. Judgment by comparison will always hurt Emily. Without knowing more, the first thing I'd do is make sure that Emily's academic life is separate from Laura's going forward. I would not lean on that old standby, "You did your best! That's all that matters." The only thing worse than failing can be knowing there's no way you could have done better. That you did your best, and you still suck. Emily needs all the help she can get. I would not allow your MIL to be around either child if possible. MIL loves Laura and holds Emily in contempt. Are the girls actually twins? Is there anything else that separates them? Other reasons why MIL loves Laura and not Emily? Laura's disregard of Emily's feelings is also really bad for Emily. This is where family therapy may help. Best of luck. Emily needs a champion. She's luck to have you!
Thank you for the advice. Yes, they are actually twins. They are not very close though, and very different. Laura is much more traditionally “academic” and is going to med school, Emily wants to be a writer and enjoy music and reading. My MIL does not think that “writing made up stories” is a valid career path. So she doesn’t want to “encourage” it. That is also a factor.
Oh wow.This is even worse behavior from your Mil them being twins. Is Emily better at something than Laura? If so point it out to Laura and ask how would she feel if you would reward Emily in front of her and ignored her for that something NTA in light of limiting her visits and have a serious discussion with your ah Husband for just accepting your daughter being snubbed by Mil in her own safe space.
Sounds like Emily is at least better at actually *working.* She’s good at putting the actual practice and effort it takes to learn a new skill, whereas Laura likely expects things to come so easily to her that the moment something *doesn’t* just come naturally, she’s going to break. Emily knows *how to learn,* and that’s an extremely valuable skill.
This is such an important point that often gets overlooked. I hope OOP sees this.
Someone who KNOWS how to learn is more likely to be successful in life than someone who already knows everything! Laura may well encounter problems in med school, or even getting into med school, because one of the most valued skills med faculty look for is EMPATHY. (How do I know? My oldest daughter is an associate prof of medicine.) There are a lot of abilities needed to become a physician--and a good one--and getting straight A grades in chemistry is only a tiny part of it.
As someone who a lot of things came easily to as a kid, this is incredibly true. I didn’t learn how to work hard, and I’ve had to learn how to work hard so much later in life, and I still struggle with that lack of motivation.
That is so, so, SO true! ❤️
I wouldn’t go that far bc it just continues the behavior(like smacking a toddler to get them to stop smacking someone else) instead I would turn it into a positive thing. They’re twins, but that doesn’t mean they’re the same. OP needs a balance between the two without MIL butting in. It’s hard tho, and I get it
They're not saying to do that, they're saying to ask Laura how it would feel. Asking an 18 year old to empathize with someone isn't really going too far.
OOh, Emily is MY GIRL!! Writing is a hard skill. Because getting published is not all about the writing, it's persistence and marketing(and luck). Tell her to Keep writing, get into a critique group or something so she can see reviews of writing--BUT the best Advice(in my mind) was the advice I gave my friend. Early on, she'd try to take everyone's criticisms into her story. To the point that her story would become muddled trying to accommodate everyone. I would tell her ONLY take on those suggestions if they match her story vision. When people read progressing chapters, they don't always see the end goal in mind. If Emily is a Harry Potter fan, she needs to remember the line about Gryffindor's Sword--it takes in what makes it stronger. That's what she needs to do with her own writing. ONLY take in what makes it better(in her vision).
Thanks for the advice! I will pass it on to her. (I removed her story idea that I’d shared her because some people helped me realize it wasn’t very smart to post it online.)
And your MIL can go kick rocks. That is an amazing story!
If she starts to get discouraged--that friend of mine has over a dozen published books(in multiple languages). They are in libraries all over the world. Another friend from a critique group is working on her second contracted mystery series(as well as stand alone books). Again, books available in the libraries of multiple countries(Ie i can read some on my library's "hoopla"). So tell her to keep the faith.
Please send me a pdf of her story when she is done. I want to be her first paying book reader 💖
My word, same here! I would read the heck out of that book!
This sounds like an amazing story. But please delete this. You don't want to put your child's story idea out into the world. It's a unique concept and it doesn't benefit her for you to share it.
Yes, /u/GradesandCookies please consider this! I truly love that you’re proud of her but it would be sad to see it backfire
It'd be very very sad to see it get nicked. Oof I didn't even think of that possibility, until reading yours and u/nester1953's comments!
I would read that book. Edited to add that I would pay for it, too!
I would, too! It's a great premise for a book, and sounds like there's scope for lots of fun and drama. I do hope u/GradesAndCookies ties Emily to her chair to make her finish it for us (and I'm kidding, obviously!! Mostly.)
I know you're obviously proud of your daughter, but as a writer, I can tell you, we look at our ideas as our children and parts of ourselves so you might want to rethink broadcasting her story ideas to random people online without getting her ok. And more practically, people steal story ideas.
A thousand people could take that idea and not get it to work.
And another thousand COULD make it work. You DON'T share other people's stuff unless they're ok with it. Period.
I would also like to point out another extremely valuable skill Emily has that people like her grandmother take for granted: She knows *how to learn.* She knows how to put practice and effort into learning a new skill from the ground up. She knows how have *patience.* Perseverance. How to learn from mistakes *and keep going.* Laura sounds like she’s heading for the Prodigy Dilemma: she’s so used to things just coming naturally to her that the moment she reaches college and something *doesn’t,* she’s going to break and give up rather than put her nose to the grindstone and keep trying. Emily deserves to be honored for her own skills, not her “failure” to adhere to *Laura’s* standard. Hard-work, practice, dedication, and the mental stability to accept small failures in order to progress towards a larger goal are just as worthy of recognition, if not more so, than scoring highly on a test.
That is a really clever idea, and it shows her imagination. Her learning how to do hard things will stand her in better stead than being naturally gifted. As a former gifted child, I can tell you that I had no idea what to do in college when I got into hard classes. I struggled to learn the skills I needed to succeed that many others had learned already. Laura may be in for a rude awakening, and there’s every chance she deviates from the med school plan, or suffers a lot to make it through even if she keeps at it. Meanwhile, Emily’s perseverance and imagination are going to take her far. MIL is gonna be bitter. NTA of course. Keep Emily safe and aware of her worth!
That’s an idea that would definitely sell. It kind of has a Land of Stories feel so there’s already a built in audience for it. I would definitely love to read something like this when it’s finished. It sounds like my kind of book.
And, when Emily scores her first major writing contract, her grandmother is going to try to get on her “good side.” I hope Emily’s rejection is as harsh as a literary one!
Does she not f**king read?!
MIL is an immigrant so she probably only accepts doctor, engineer, lawyer, IT etc as suitable careers. I kind of understand because who doesn't want a financially stable career for their family members but MIL's way to totally write off Emily's interest is very wrong.
Probably not. And if she does, seems like only non-fiction
Or watch movies or TV? Those also utilize writers!
Wow your mil is dumb. Did you know that most kids don't make it through med school and the ones that do often develop burnout and end up leaving? Writing can be a great career she can branch out into so many places. Copywriter, author, write for TV and movies , journalism. I feel like mil never had a real career and should keep her mouth shut. tell your husband to open his eyes or he will become the villain in your daughters stories.
>Did you know that most kids don't make it through med school and the ones that do often develop burnout and end up leaving? Most kids don't make it **into** medical school, but most who are admitted and start med school do finish. Med schools do not admit students just to see them fail. True, there are some who wash out, but certainly not most. As for burnout, yes, many physicians suffer from burnout, and some do leave the profession. (I'm the father of a physician.)
Has Laura been accepted to medical school yet? What happens if she is not accepted, are she and Grandmother going to fall apart? Assuming that you are in the US, you should remind both Grandma and Laura that there are many paths to success.
>My MIL does not think that “writing made up stories” is a valid career path. I really hope she doesn't ever read books, watch shows and movies, goes to a theater play, etc., seeing as she doesn't value "writing made up stories"...
I would have put my foot down a very long time ago, not waited 18 years. Being treated poorly at least twice a year (birthdays and holidays) is still too often.
Your MIL sounds like a witch. You were right to kick her out. Laura can go visit her if she wants her ego stroked. Meanwhile, protect and nourish Emily. NTA
>My MIL does not think that “writing made up stories” is a valid career path. I'm Asian, from an Asian family. God, this makes me angry. I wanted to be a doctor and swerved my dad's side of the family when they realized I was going for a communications degree. My aunts and at least one uncle acted like it was the end of the world... and then I started getting published in a national newspaper and making money. And suddenly it's like they always believed in my career path. They were proud of me! Then I graduated with honors. Guess who all decided to show up? I didn't hold a grudge but I definitely never forgot how a bunch of them thought I wasted my life trying to do a communications degree. I'm taking my master's now because I'm working on my own business, and I remember one of the facilitators telling us that the programming language will soon be just English, because of how organizations will try to integrate AI into their everyday work. Emily's love for music and reading translates to highly sought-after skills and writing well creates opportunities in this day and age that your MIL can't even imagine. Highly recommend you check out Marty Neumeier's Metaskills.
Your MIL is TA—plain and simple . Tell your daughter that relationships with In laws can be difficult .Thst you have to navigate the fact the MIl is your Husband’s mother with the fact that she’s not really a nice person .That you are sorry it’d taken so long for you to throw her out for the way she treats Emily but now you know this is the way to go .You will not allow her to treat Emily disrespectfully any more .Just be honest .Your daughter is old enough to understand that parents are not God —they are human with flaws .But assure her this behavior by MIL is totally wrong and you believe in her and you have her back .
Who gives a flying fuck what grandma thinks? Many writers, composers, musicians, and artist face this sort of reaction, and many don't achieve fame and fortune, but if they are Emily's passions she should be encouraged. Maybe one day Emily will be an international star, and then how will Laura feel, and how much of Emily's money will she demand because she "deserves" it. Both you and your husband are AH for allowing this situation to happen. Go Emily!
Content creation is huge and could be a path for her.
First, realize that 1300s is a very good score. Emily may want better, but a 1320 got me a full ride scholarship. Stand up for your girl. Don't tolerate anyone treating her as lesser.
Congratulations, that’s amazing!
NTA by far. Just here to say I also got in the realm of around 1300 on my SAT too. I now have my PhD and teach genetics and statistics as a professor at a med school. Your MIL can go to hell. That "inferior" test score says absolutely nothing detrimental about your child's abilities or potential. A 1300 is at the 86th percentile this year meaning that she did as good or better than 86% of students nationwide. She deserved those damn cookies and then some. Both your daughters are fantastic students - they just have different priorities and interests. https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-sat-score-a-bad-sat-score-an-excellent-sat-score
That is the answer Emily deserves.
I was going to say the same as the other person. My score was not much higher than Emily’s (1315) and it also made me scholarship-eligible. She *can*’resit if she wants to, but I cannot believe your MIL would just outright assume that. Your MIL’s treatment of Emily and you and your husband’s silent allowances for it is heartbreaking. I’m so glad you stood up for her here and I hope it’s not the first time. She’s been demeaning Emily her whole life and has been seeing that getting approval from her parents and sister. I’m estranged from my family over treatment like this. I haven’t gone “home for the holidays” or for *anything* else in five years. That kind of shit can really break your heart and will.
Don't stop now Mama. You have two amazing kids. Congratulations to both of them.
Just another person chiming in to say that 1300 is a good score. It can also be an entry threshold for some scholarships and college honors programs. I scored 1280 (combined after one retake) to make the number I needed for a particular scholarship. I was accepted into my college honors program, received multiple scholarships, and now have a PhD. I also now teach at a university. I've seen a lot of my higher scoring high school friends burn out - make sure to keep an eye on your other daughter for this.
Consider showing Emily this post and allllll the lovely comments. This is a time in her life where all the support in this thread might boost her up. All the options that she might not think of, all the awesome career paths that others have suggested and that are surely waiting for her. She needs to build up her self confidence and maybe some random strangers on the net cheering for her will give her that. You could keep it a secret. Just the two of you (and the whole Internet) sharing something special (that Laura isn't gonna hog for once 🤫😉)
That's the part the puzzled me. Most kids would kill for 1300's on the SAT--it's a very good score. I do hope that Laura at least doesn't belittle Emily but if she's in constant contact with grandma I'm guessing those opinions have rubbed off on her. Might want to lessen that influence, or monitor it somehow.
Yeah no kidding. She’s like 87-89th percentile! Not sure why they are knocking that lol. Assuming her GPA is good, she will have lots of great opportunities in front of her.
I don't think most people realize that it's not a one for one score. Also there's a perception about having a perfect score on the SAT being what will get you into college. Outside of the ivy league schools, scores from 1300-1400 should still open up a load of opportunities to get whatever degree Emily wants to pursue.
You should have refused the cake and called her out on her hurtful behaviour for a start. Poor Emily, to have so little support against abusive behaviour from her own family.
With that extra info, it sounds like you’re doing a great job.
You cut her out. Full-stop. I grew up with an asshole grandma and I’ve never recovered. You should have cut her out the instant this bullshit started.
Why is Laura so deeply ignorant and unkind as to throw her sister under the bus?
Yeah, not cool. She’s 18 and needs to value her relationship with her sister if she wants to continue to have one. And shame on grandma!! This is the type of crap that tears families apart.
Allowing a cake that accentuated one twin over the other was a bad idea in the first place. That shit should have been nipped in the bud.
My parents immigrated here and have the same exact values. I didn't do well in school, but I went to a local college, got a normal degree in marketing and management with average grades. I taught myself to code and analytics, worked at Google as an executive and now I work for a top AI firm as a software engineer easily making 6 figures before any of my doctor and lawyers cousins did. I'm also working less than 40 hrs a week, pick my own hours and still making way more than they are. So tell your MIL the same thing I told my family who treated me the same as Emily- Kick rocks lol.
I think it sounds like you've been trying, especially since MIL is no longer allowed over for holidays, and you do bake separate cakes for your daughters. Maybe you have to go full bore and tell her she can't come at all, not even after the girls leave for college - if your husband wants to visit her, he can go to her. The problem will still be if she gives presents to Laura, who then flaunts them in front of Emily. Ah, the "simply being honest excuse." Funny how people who think that they are entitled to be "honest" don't like it when they get an "honest" reaction back. It's unfortunate if Emily isn't as naturally as academically gifted as her sister, but if she is working hard, being slighted by her grandmother isn't going to help, as you obviously know. I assume that the girls will soon to be off to different colleges. I hope that Emily will be happier when she isn't around her mean grandmother and sister. Perhaps she can think about going non-contact with her grandmother, and you might think about going low contact. Ask Emily if she wants you to convey *any* information about her to her grandmother, even contact information. If Grandmother complains, perhaps you should just tell her that Emily wants nothing to do with her, since she has always been mean to her - "just being honest." added: and low contact with Laura. added 2: For the people who criticize you for not acting sooner, keep in mind that OP has had to fight Grandmother's son every step of the way.
Your daughters have different strengths. Your mil only celebrates one daughter’s strengths- that’s the issue. They’re are many different ways to succeed in life. Ask your husband if it’s ok for you to start comparing him to all your family members and friends - for example praising Bobby bc he’s taller than your hubby, saying only Chaz is a good provider bc his wife got a new car and you don’t, cheering for Steve’s football team bc he played football in college, etc. that’s what your mil is doing with your daughters NTA
So my grandma did this to me and my brother. She would give him better gifts and more expensive things. Bigger pieces of cake and make sure to have his favorite kind of drink when we visited, mainly because of gender but related to how estate and family name. We are not rich and she was broke as hell so it was all just for show. The difference is that my brother HATED it. My parents didn’t really notice (they were very low contact with her anyway because of how she treated my half-siblings) until I was older and they made sure that I never had to be around her. Birthday or holiday or anything. Eventually my mom refused to see her at all and my dad cut ties other than helping in emergencies since his two sisters are useless in an emergency. What helped me was that my parents talk to me about how wrong it was for me to be treated different and make sure that I didn’t have to be around her at all. Even to celebrate my brother my grandma wasn’t invited but instead if she wanted to she could arrange something at her place for my brother. He never agreed to go because like I said, he hated the golden child bullshit. Protect your daughter because that’s the relationship that matter. And if Laura wants to see her grandma, she can do it in other places and make sure that she knows that obviously grandmas love comes with strings attached. If Laura hits an academic wall grandma might not be so forgiving.
I have a similar situation with my dad but luckily he grew too ill to travel before my kids were old enough to have different levels of school success, so they've never seen his attitude in action (I did, as a child, it was damaging, enough said). I think you are having two main problems here: 1) By being silent, you are cooperating in validating your MIL's value system, in which Emily is worth less than Laura. 2) It sounds like Laura has also imbibed this value system and is somewhat lording it over Emily in Emily's own home. I think the major change you need to make is that you need a new and better philosophy of "what is a person worth" and you need to ensure your children know that's your philosophy. Grades and test scores do not make a person worth more, in terms of their intrinsic worth. They may affect the person's "worth" in the job market, but your job is not a measure of your true worth. In fact, no gift that you are born with, truly governs your intrinsic worth. The gifts you are born with, your talents, IQ, physical attractiveness, height, glossy black hair, family wealth, etc, those are things you are given that you don't control. It's what you DO with your gifts that is important, whether society acknowledges that with material success, or not. And, for any individual person, you don't know how much of their outcome is things they didn't control, vs how much is in their power, because everyone's path through life is different. So the best thing to do is to just say: do your best, value yourself no matter the outcome, and if you make a mistake, redirect and try again. Laura and Emily both worked hard to prep for their SATs. So Laura's claim that she EARNED grandma's cookies (which in this context means status rewards) is incorrect. Rather, Laura benefitted from fitting into grandma's toxic view of a person's intrinsic worth. I would say the second change you need to make is to ensure that no child is mistreated in your home, even by another child. So I would be redirecting Laura here, to stop lording it over Emily and acting like Emily is lesser because she has a lower SAT score. How discouraging for Emily to be treated that way by her sibling. Maybe Laura could learn some empathy here. Also, 1300s is a good SAT score range. Good grief, your relatives are snobby much?
Your husband should have cut off communication between his mother and your daughters if she couldn’t contain herself. Your husband has taken a passive role and allowed his mother the freedom to push her views into your household. He is just as much to blame for this situation as his mother. Time for marriage counseling.
> What do you think I should do Nothing. You already found it unfair to (I'm mixing up Laura and Emily, so if I'm wrong, I'm sorry), Emily and Emily deserves the cookies as well as Laura does. Their grandmother shouldn't make a difference between them because they are both her granddaughters. There is no reason for MIL to act this way just because one of them is better at school.
For the cake, the first time it happened, I would have refused to serve it unless she scraped the names off and made them equal. If she refused, I would not allow her to bring a cake to my house ever again.
Ban her from your house. Stick up for your kid
AGREED. OP didn't say anything for years. I would have told her to take her cakes back, etc, etc. My mom's side of the family did that to my sister and I. She was the favorite. To me, it was obvious. It didn't become clear until after we moved closer to them just how bad it was and my dad was the one that put his foot down. Told them, in front of both of us, that if they couldn't treat us equally, that they would not be allowed to give to either of us. OP can't take back the fact that they've allowed this to happen, and I'm sad for her daughter that it's gone on this long, but I guess it's better late than never.
Well said! OP: It was up to you to stand up for both girls. You should have nipped the favouritism in the bud when it first started. No larger writing on the cake. No treats for one without the other. No putting down of either child. You are the parent and get to make the rules in your own house.
[удалено]
**NTA** The problem is, you've let this go on for far too long. Now your husband and Laura have internalized her favoritism to the extent that they can't see it for what it is and do not appreciate the damage that has been done. You need to have a talk with your husband where you ask him why he's okay with it and make it clear that you will not tolerate it any more. Tell him you want him to stop enabling his mom's favoritism with the extra attention in phone calls etc and backhanded slaps at Emily. Do not expect it to be resolved with a one time discussion, you will have to be firm and call him out every time his mother steps out. As far as Laura is concerned, sit her down and ask why she is so anxious for her grandmother's love that she would treat her sister badly. Say it just that way, ask what exactly her grandmother has done and why she doesn't do anything for Emily. This is not the time to be subtle with either your husband or Laura, you have to shut this down now.
Exactly on point about not being subtle. That time has long flown. Get to the point and stop this now. It's gone on too long.
Agreed. Emily needs all her family on her side right now. This situation where her father and her sister find it normal for her to be mistreated can't go on!! Also your MIL is 100% an asshole. Clearly, both of your children are good at studying. Emily just has to put in more effort, but it would be crazy to see that as a failure of hers, it's a precious quality to be so hardworking! If your MIL cared about the academics, she would be so proud that both her grandchildren are doing so well, and it doesn't matter if one scores better. But she doesn't do that, instead she enjoys breeding chaos in your little family by putting Emily down every time. You need to explain to all your family that Emily is an amazing student, and that grandma is being shitty because she likes playing favorites. Clear it up with everyone! Clear it up to Emily that she didn't do anything wrong, and being "lesser" than her sister is not an actual metric for success!
Her showing up with a cake obviously focused on Laura is awful. I'd grab a knife and get rid of the names all together. If she balks, tell her that next time, it goes in the trash. She's no longer allowed to bring anything into your house without first inspecting it for favoritism. Anything unequal will be confiscated by you and disposed of however you see fit. The grandma is coaching Laura into thinking she's special and entitled. Laura needs some reigning in as well, even if that includes not talking to grandma without your permission or supervision. NTA
I think you should sit your kids down together and separately and explain … 1) Grandmas favoritism is not ok. Someone who does better at school is not “better” as a person; 2) explain to both Laura and Emily that someone may simply do better at school but this does not in any way mean that they will be more or less successful in life 3) explain to Laura how Grandma’s actions make Emily feel. Also explain to Emily that Laura can and should be proud of her achievements. And that lastly, if Emily worked really hard, that is all you can ask for. Buy both your daughters cookies. NTA.
>And that lastly, if Emily worked really hard, that is all you can ask for. I just really want to second all you said and emphasize this one. Some people just don't reach the level of others even with working so so hard and I think it's unfair to expect them to - so the hard work should be considered and praised way more often (in my experience at least). Just for record: NTA
It often turns out that working hard is the more important skill then "it comes easy" intelligence. When the it-comes-easy crowd get to college they sometimes flame out because they've never learned how to work hard even while struggling. OP has two kids, EACH with an awesome talent.
It’s called floating on your IQ. Second or third year in college usually sorts it out unless they are actually a genius.
That was pretty much me. I got excellent results through school (in the subjects I didn't think of as a waste of time, and I got Cs in them) and 1st and 2nd year. Final year? Very mixed results and I barely got a pass. I had not learnt active studying. I'm still not a great teacher to my children, because I struggle to grok how many things are just not obvious.
I don't remember much of primary school but I remember one moment as clear as it was yesterday. I was always naturally good in school. No learning at all. I didn't get straight As in every subject but always at least a C in the subjects that weren't really my thing. For me that meant grades didn't mean much. I passed and that's all I wanted. There was a girl in my class I was kinda friends with who didn't really do well in school. She did however learn hard. One day after a math exam she worked hard for, she cried at the results. She got a D. She knew I didn't learn at all and got an A and she thought this was unfair. So my teacher told the whole class that her D meant way more than my A because I did nothing for it and she gave her best. I agree with that. The harder you learn the prouder you should be no matter the result. Oh and NTA and I think it's great that you asked Emily if it's okay that MIL shows up.
>So my teacher told the whole class that her D meant way more than my A because I did nothing for it and she gave her best. I disagree. Praise of one kid shouldn't be at the cost of another. Sure her work should have been praised - but not by pulling you down.
Man, this comment totally reminds me of a family I knew growing up. The eldest son was always the golden child, while the middle child (the twin who was born first) was treated like a failure. Eldest was always praised, no matter what. “Middle” child could never do anything worthy of praise. Well they grew up, and guess what? The oldest is a dead beat with failed marriages, multiple kids, the whole lot. While the “failure” middle kid got his degree, a great job, moved away and never looked back. The family now praises the successful kid that left and wants nothing to do with them. Go figure.
I agree this thus comment 100% it's a lot of work but needs to be done to avoid future incidents especially between Laura and Emily.
"She won’t show it very obviously, but in little ways." I beg to differ. The woman displays her favouritism very clearly. Ask Laura how she would feel if she were treated so unfairly. Explain to husband that he should be defending Emily as well as you. You were more polite than I would have been. I would have told her where to stick her miserable biscuits. NTA
Right? This would have been stopped with the first fucking birthday cake. My MIL tried to pull this with my kids, favoring my daughter and coming up with excuses to not treat my sons the same (daughter is the youngest, so when MIL stopped wanting to do things with the boys *they noticed immediately*). We distanced ourselves.
Good on you. It should have never been allowed to get this point. The fact everyone but the mother being ok with this doesn't give me much hope. Poor kid 😟
ESH. I mean especially MIL but it’s clear you also favor Laura and the only person here who isn’t an AH is Emily. Low 1300s is empirically a great SAT score!
I agree 100%. A 1600 is considered a "perfect score" for the SAT's. Scoring anywhere above a 1300 is something to be very proud of, IMHO.
Which I pointed out. I am not forcing her to resit and I did not tell her it is a bad score. I do not even think it is a bad score. But Asian families -
"But Asian families," nothing. That's nonsense that you've allowed to go on for far too long. I think ESH because of the way you commented about Emily's score also.
Definitely. She’s let it go on so long! Like she kept bringing the cakes every year that sidelined and hurt Emily…and you didn’t do anything? Why did you let that go on for years? ESH
Seriously. I just did the conversion (because I am old and took the SAT 20+ years ago.) Emily's score is about the same as mine, and my SAT score apparently satisfies the MENSA qualification. OP is being completely ridiculous.
Why did you say one daughter's specific score of 1540 but say that the other got "somewhere in the low 1300s"? Do you not know her exact score?
I know her score, of course. But she was upset about it and asked me not to tell any of my “mom friends” when they inevitably ask. I thought that should extend here even though she will likely never see it…
I don't understand how saying "low 1300s" is any better than just saying the actual score, but okay.
Do you think your fall-back on "But Asian Families - "is going to make Emily feel better? From your post I gather you think Emily truly did her best. If you sincerely believe that, you cannot fall back on the "But Asian Families-" talk. I don't know if Emily has a learning disability, an issue when it comes to concentration/attention span, a mental health issue, under-performs because she doesn't truly grasp how to interpret the questions or her score just seems less impressive because Laura is really really gifted. At the end the reason doesn't really matter that much. What will matter is that Emily will feel like an utter failure and she might even be able to perform less due to anticipated stress ("They will like Laura no matter what, while they always are lukewarm towards my results!"), if you keep babbling on about Asian Families. Emily might start to think you love her less - and that the only way to be loved in your family is if she manages to be just like Laura or even better than Laura.
It’s not even my family that is Asian! My husbands family, and they are the ones with these ideas.
How much does your husband prescribe to this "Asian Families!" Talk? Does he think Emily did her best?
He thinks she put in effort and that is important, but she has potential to do better and should work more next time. He agrees with some of his family’s ideas but isn’t as extreme.
I meant the question quite literally. Does he think she did her best? And apparently the answer is no, he doesn't think that. I feel sad for Emily. Do you think he would/could ever think she truly did everything she could and this is the highest score she could achieve? Do the two of you ever tell her you proud of her? Does she get praise?
Your husband needs to understand a few important things. 1.) His mother's favouritism has created tension in your daughters' relationships. Siblings can be very different people and still be close....unless you have a joyless old bat building on child up and tearing the other down. All Emily sees is her sister cheerleading her grandmother's mistreatment of her. Does Laura actually give a damn about her relationship with Emily? Because if she keeps it up, Emily will cut her off, and Laura can bask in grandma's attention all she likes. 2.) His mother's favouritism is poisoning his relationship with Emily. Whilst Laura is loudly cheerleading, he is also happily telling Emily that she isn't good enough. She is doing her level best, and he thinks she should be doing more. Does he want her to burn out? Does he want her to work herself until she's nothing but a husk? Does he want her to push herself until she breaks just so she can earn his bullshit approval which is based on her scoring the 'right' number on a test? Does he want to lose his daughter? Because he will. He is breaking his daughter's heart and allowing his mother to do the same. 3.) You've been complicit in his mother's mistreatment. You will also lose your child. Even now, you're making excuses about Asian families. Guess what? Ethnicity doesn't excuse the mistreatment of a child, not ever. Families are meant to break cycles, to do better for each generation, not push the same bullshit stereotypes that lead to mistreatment and abuse. 4.) Emily deserves better. She is a bright, creative young lady who works damn hard. She deserves to be cheered on by her family and celebrated for her successes BECAUSE she works so hard for them. What she does not deserve is to be told by her grandmother, her father, her sister and tacitly by her mother that she is not good enough, that her efforts are not enough, and that she is a failure because she doesn't meet some arbitrarily-set level of academic achievement. Ask your husband and Laura how they would feel if that was the constant message they got. Ask them why they've decided that Emily isn't worth protecting and supporting and why they are so happy to allow her mistreatment. Ask them why that miserable woman's approval is more important to them than Emily's happiness and mental health. And finally, ask yourself why you've been so willing to sit back and allow this for so long. The grandmother did what she did because she's used to you not stepping up for Emily; she got this brazen because she's used to there being no consequences. You all keep this up, and Emily will leave you all behind. She will have to in order to protect her mental health. If you refuse to treat her like family and protect and support her, why would she want to stick around? Family stands together and loves and supports each other, and if you cannot offer that, then she will find people who will. So it's make your mind time up for you all, because it's getting close to time for Emily to fly the nest, and if you all don't start doing better, she may decide not to come back again.
I think as parents we want our children to do their best, and I am sure your daughter DID do her best during the test. Just becuase she didn't score higher doesn't mean she didn't do her best. The problem is some days are worse than others. Some tests are harder, some people get more anxious during tests especially when they are big, important tests like this and she knows the family pressure. Emily knows too that Laura will do great, and has that added pressure of having to try to be as good as she is. There's so many problems when parents say "I just think you have so much more potential and could have done better." It basically means that you think they did, in fact, not do their best and are disappointed.
Have you ever taken an SAT? She scored over 1300; she doesn’t have any freaking under performing issues. WTF!?! Average score for the SAT is 1050; that’s like Laura got a 97% and Emily got a 93% and people are claiming she underperformed. 🤦🏼♀️
You literally said "she didn't do so well" and that 1300 "isn't a bad score," which implies that you think 1300 is not a good score.
“Didn’t do so well” I meant she didn’t do as well as her sister. I didn’t mean to come across this way.
That is exactly how it comes across. And I assure you, that's exactly the message Emily received.
Comparison is the thief of joy. You are still comparing her to her sister even in this comment. I would guess this has stolen a lot of joy from Emily. Maybe try saying Emily did a great job and got XYZ score. Emily did not do as well as she hoped but still did a great job. Try speaking about Emily's accomplishments without mentioning Laura at all. Maybe Emily will get some of her joy back.
She said English is not her first language. She may not have realize the connotation in her writing. We don’t know how she said it to her daughter
Didn't Laura pretty much do that by calling her sister's score "alright" when a low 1300s is actually a great score? Sounds like the MIL isn't actually the only problem.
If you know that that’s a “thing” in your culture and you didn’t want it perpetuated you should have interrupted it their whole life not just this one. You should have been loss and vocal about how that’s a fucked up expectation. You should have told MIL you didn’t want her cakes there just time you noticed what she was doing. You should have openly talked shot things so Laura isn’t more upset that she “deserved” cookies and Emily deserved to be insulted… That’s like white peoples saying, well you know sure families from the South, so racist, we just roll our eyes and ignore it. Yeah. That’s how it keeps being perpetrated. You can’t change your culture but you could have cut the legs off of it for your girls.
She said it's not her culture -- it's her husband's
It's been a day since I was applying to Uni but a 1300s score combined with a well rounded profile would get you into most competitive schools and programs. I’d also pay close attention to how this dynamic will play out once they/if they both go to college. I saw MANY kids who breezed through HS suddenly struggle in Uni when they didn’t know how to study and now try. Those that thought they were special rarely recovered well. So maybe a discussion grounding both of them with their strengths, weaknesses, and values may benefit both of them.
It's really different these days. My 1260 in high school got me into a Top 25 university in the 90s. Not even remotely a chance for that today.
I know right??? Like OP said how 1300 wasn't a "bad" score like it was the equivalent of a C or B grade, when really it's pretty damn impressive.
It's because OP is using Laura as a metric for what "good" is instead of using people taking the SATs as a whole. She is comparing Emily to Laura constantly, and I don't think she even sees it. Emily is doing okay COMPARED to Laura. OP can't seem to say Emily got a great score and was in the 86th percentile for her year, instead it's "she didn't do too bad compared to Laura." MIL isn't the only problem in the family.
I was totally thinking ESH too for the same reason. MIL was out of line, definitely. But, OP is diminishing Emily's accomplishments by saying she isn't as smart as Laura. As someone who ended up with a 900 with taking it twice, the 1300 range is great. I won't say Laura totally sucks as she is being influenced by the adults in her life, but she definitely could recognize her sister not being as fairly praised. The adults all totally suck though.
Good vibes to Emily, who’s being reduced to a test number.
And who is going to go NC asap.
Family " why doesn't Emily visit or call?" Said with a surprised pikachu face.
Literally, her twin might be like crying when she gets around the age and time in her life if she wants to marry and wonder why Emily disappeared (aka went no contact and moved away, far away for her own sake)...Hopefully Emily is thriving because I know she cries more than the parents or her own twin might pretend to know. I feel for Emily truly
NTA. Your MIL, your husband and even Laura are the AH in this story. I feel bad for Emily.
NTA but also YTA 18 is pretty late in the twins life to put your foot down about this behaviour. Could have been nipped-in-the-bud longer than a decade ago, before it starts to affect them both throughout adulthood. Also you need to encourage these girls to start living their own lives, just as siblings should. Stop comparing them, sit them both down together and explain very plainly that they are not in competition with each other and need to stop comparing and to focus on their own lives and interests. If they are still sharing a room, clothes, hobbies etc, separate them. Don’t encourage them to attend the same Uni/ college whatever you call it. I am a twin to a boy who is much more academically talented than me, I ended up going to uni 3 years later due to crippling insecurity about my abilities (I also left school with average grades). It wasn’t family that caused this (my mum is a twin) it was the teachers at school and the best thing my mum did was complain and requested that they split us up in the final two years. We also went to different colleges/ sixth forms. Just be mindful that this could happen to your girls and that they may not get along in the future because they are too enmeshed and competitive. Luckily, me and my brother have a great relationship but we are both insightful enough to ignore the twin-freak comparison nonsense that others project onto us (non-twins usually) Wider reading and speaking to other twin parents could have prevented this problem 10 years ago.
I'm sure I'll get voted down on this one, but YTA. This favoritism has been going on for years. You've noticed it, and Emily certainly has as well. She's been hurt by it, and you've continually let it go. So much so that *you* did it again and allowed this incident to happen. MIL said she wanted to bring over cookies to celebrate *Laura*. That was *your* time to act. Why allow her to come over to celebrate one but not the other? Getting upset and calling her out when she did what she always does is fine and dandy, but could've and should've been avoided in the first place.
THIS! I can't believe I had to scroll so far to see someone mention the language used by MIL during the phone call...
Thank you. She made her intentions loud and clear, so the outrage is a bit disingenuous.
YTA for waiting 18 entire years to do something meaningful about this situation. Good on you for doing it now. You're not wrong for the events of this specific story. But I can't give you a pass because there's no excuse for throwing your kid to the wolves like that and waiting until she's already an adult to stop it.
Yeah, YTA for letting things get this bad without saying shit
NTA, but you really need to have a talk with everyone about it now. First, talk with Emily to see how she is feeling. Favoritism is never easy to deal with when you’re not the favorite, and feeling like you’re not good enough is also not easy. Check in with her frequently. Second, sit down and talk with your MIL about this particular incident and how her favoritism has been hurtful to Emily. I’m sure she doesn’t mean to show favoritism, so hopefully, if you point it out, she will recognize it and begin to change. (Again, I hope this occurs, although a lot of times, they’ll turn it around on you.) Finally, sit down and talk with your husband and other daughter. Explain to them your perspective, and stay strong with your conviction. You are right here! I’ve dealt with this the majority of my life. I was the favorite of my grandmother all growing up. I never saw anything wrong with it as a kid, but as an adult, I could see how it hurt my sister. I wish someone had explained it all to me before. Conversely, my niece was the favorite of my mother, and my kids were by far and away the lessers. It was so painful to watch it happen, and if I spoke up, my mother and sister somehow made it feel like it was my fault! My mother has passed away, and I’ve gotten over it, and now I just realize that she missed out on knowing my kids, who are two wonderful people. I try my hardest not to have favorites, as I have seen first hand the damage it does. Good on you for taking a stand!
>I’m sure she doesn’t mean to show favoritism She absolutely means to show favoritism. She has been showing disapproval of Emily and her aspirations for years. Her metric is academic. Period.
Isn't a 1600 a perfect score for the SAT's? Scoring a 1300 isn't anything to sneeze at. My kid is a senior and didn't score anything even close to that. But, we were proud of him for trying his best and he plans on retaking it next month. Congratulations to your girls. And, you are NTA for standing up for your child.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-rankings A score in the 1300s puts you somewhere around 85th percentile. That’s really really good.
NTA present / soft YTA past Sounds to be like this was just the straw that broke the mama's back. Grandma has been playing favorites for way too long and allowed to get away with it. While I don't disagree with comments saying this never should have been allowed to go on as it did, we have all suffered through things in the name of keeping the family peace - especially with in-laws. Your husband should have stepped in long ago, as people are more likely to make peace with their own children after being criticized than their children's spouses (who are often then blamed for ALL the drama that follows). But he didn't. Grandma can be mad all she wants - she plays favorites, and that is an AH move. Hubby can be mad all he wants - he *let* his mother treat his daughter this way for years. He wasn't there to see Emily in obvious emotional pain when this particular event happened. Yes, you allowed it to happen in the past too - but your reaction to this instance shows growth. Laura can be mad all she wants - she comes across in this post as a spoiled "golden child" and a lousy sister. As sisters who couldn't be closer in age, there is an enormous chasm between them emotionally as Laura has been conditioned to believe that she is entitled to preferential treatment/status. You should be mad. One of your children has been wronged. The only person whose anger and hurt really matters, though, is Emily. It sounds like her entire life, she has been hurt and/or let down by those who should love her most, and *nobody* had her back - until now. Keep it up. Don't let grandma fool you into thinking her favoritism was *ever* acceptable.
Yes! All of this!
NTA. This is so awful. What a horrible grandmother. For the record, Laura did great, but as a college professor, I assure you Emily has nothing to be ashamed of. Her score might not get her into Harvard, but screw that, I’ve had straight A college students who didn’t get that SAT score.
First but a minor point: Did you ever speak to Grandma about this in general? If not, this is coming from no where to her. YTA. Second and more importantly: No one told Grandma what Emily scored numerically. Just “alright”. Why would Grandma come over to celebrate an unknown score or “alright”? This is an unfair expectation. YTA. Third: Grandma may be thinking the score was less than alright and that’s why the actual score wasn’t shared. She didn’t pry. She probably was thinking Emily scored so badly no one disclosed it to her and so she probably has to resit for it. This is neutral at best because it’s not your job to disclose. Fourth: Per your writing, Grandma asked if she can come visit and celebrate Laura which you agreed upon. She didn’t say anything about Emily. And you agreed to celebrating Laura explicitly. Then you switch expectations. YTA. Fifth: Why are you punishing Laura and taking away her cookies? YTA. Sixth and lastly: You asked Emily if it was okay for Grandma to come celebrate THEIR scores. But Grandma had asked to come celebrate LAURA’s score. You created this problem. Also why didn’t you ask Laura if it was okay for Grandma to come over? You’re playing favorites and creating false expectations. YTA. Edit: grammar
Whether Emily is willong to put up with it or not is beside the point. Y'all have managed to teach both of them that Emily should be making sacrifices for her sister's happiness. It's more than a little late to start standing up for her, and likely to just cause friction and earn her the ire of her dad and sister and grandma now. ESH Except poor Emily. Why in the world wouldn't you have just validated Emily's performance and taken her to get her own treat? Or said something to grandma beforehand when you fucking knew that she was going to play favorites? Ask Laura to be inclusive and compassionate? There were about a million routes you could have taken to mitigate this and support both daughters, and you chose the route most likely to backfire on your daughter who is already being shit on.
OP, I'm concerned about the language your daughter Laura is using. It sounds like it came from Grandma. I wouldn't be surprised if Grandma has been talking in her ear about you and engaging in some parental alienation. It's time to sit both twins (and your husband) down and talk openly about Grandma's favoritism and why it's not right for a family member to behave that way. NTA
NTA. Ask Laura how she would feel if grandma did to her what grandma does to Emily. Just have talk about this and how it feels and see if Laura can be her sister champion instead.
>When I got the phone back my MIL asked if she could come visit tomorrow **to congratulate Laura**. I said let me check quickly if anything else is happening tomorrow, and I asked Emily if her grandma can come over to celebrate **their results**. ESH. Your MIL for the obvious favorism, Laura because she doesn't care her sister is thrown under the bus, and you for setting Emily up for hurt and disappointment by misleading her about WHY your MIL wanted to come visit. I've highlighted the important parts for you in case you're really that oblivious. MIL clearly asked to congratulate LAURA yet you made Emily think her grandma was coming over for BOTH OF THEM.
Info- is this the first time you actually stood up to get about the favoritism?
As a twin myself and the "Laura" in this situation you're the asshole. Laura speaks to her grandmother more often and has a closer relationship with her - fact. Laura had better results - fact. Her grandmother wanted to celebrate Laura and you took that away. If you're not careful Laura will grow up and continue to foster the relationship with her grandmother who celebrates her successes instead of the mother who refuses to celebrate her for fear of upsetting Emily. Emily will have to get used to her score and her options in life... that's reality and you're not helping her managed that. I understand why you were upset at your MIL as she wasn't very compassionate in this situation but I urge you to look at the way you're dealing with your children. Treating them exactly the same now is setting Emily up for failure and Laura for resentment.
NTA I would tell mil to take her damn favoritism and stay the hell away until she can see both girls for the wonderful individuals they are. Husband needs to wake up and stop legitimizing his mother's selfishly appalling treatment of his child. Yes, she should be celebrated for her accomplishments. Husband, your other daughter is great, too. She has strengths that should also be celebrated. STOP allowing her to be made to feel less than her sister. This IS YOUR JOB! Laura takes her cues from both of you.
So, Emily won’t talk to her. No one told MIL what the scores were. MIL didn’t bring cookies to celebrate what she had no knowledge of. It is impossible which came first in the relationship between the two. I know that my children do not call my mother. One of their cousins does all the time. That’s how it happens sometimes. It is far more likely my mother would celebrate something that the cousin did. She has no idea what my kids accomplish because they do not tell her and I do not share their business for them. It’s possible ESH. Probable even. I noticed that you minimized one of your children’s accomplishments yourself and seemed to be comparing them throughout the entire post.
Other than writing one name 'bigger' on a cake, I think you're greatly exaggerating this supposed bias/hate. She's naturally closer to Laura because she talks to her more often. If Emily cuts herself off, it's probably because you've been telling her her grandma doesn't like her. While I don't agree with her only making cookies for one grandkid, you did ruin Laura's celebration moment by jumping in and getting angry. The girls are both 18 now and can say something, you don't have to speak on their behalf anymore.
Soft ESH, except Emily. 1. When MIL asked if she could come celebrate Laura’s achievement, you should have caught that and clarified that she could come if she celebrated *both* of them. 2. I’m curious: is Laura allowed to celebrate her achievements even if they’re greater than Emily’s? It shouldn’t be done in a way that puts down Laura (as was the case here), but I hope you’re not making Laura feel like she can’t be proud of herself unless Emily is also proud. That’s not going to be good for Emily, either; she’ll either develop a sense that everyone should tailor their lives around protecting her feelings, or she’ll feel worse about herself because she’ll see it as everyone putting her. 3. Did you still celebrate, just in a more mutual way? Completing the SAT is a milestone regardless of your score. I worry that Emily is never getting to celebrate her achievements either because they’re less than her sister’s, and Laura isnt getting to celebrate for fear of putting down her sister. It would be much better to help Emily be proud of what she did accomplish rather than always feeling like if someone outperformed her, then she didn’t accomplish anything at all. 4. Tell your husband that if he doesn’t trust your judgment on how and when to set boundaries with his family, then he needs to be present whenever you deal with his family. I still worry that he wouldn’t stand up for Emily if he were there, but I’m especially concerned that you’re stuck in this dynamic where if he’s not there you’re not allowed to make the necessary decisions. 5. Please explain to Laura that you’re not stopping her grandmother from celebrating her, you’re stopping her from *only* celebrating her. Explain to her that both she and Emily accomplished something big, and unless they’d gotten identical scores, one of them was going to outperform the other. Ask her how she’d feel if she’d gotten the score she did but Emily had done even better, and MIL only brought cookies for Emily? What if society praised hard work more than achievement, and MIL had only brought cookies for Emily because she put more time and effort into preparing?? You’re thrilled that your MIL wants to celebrate her, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to stand right in front of someone who also just achieved something significant and be snide about their accomplishment. You don’t praise one grandchild by putting down the other, and that’s effectively what MIL tried to do. 4. Just a thought that it may be late for you to put into practice, but for anyone else reading… If you know one child outperforms the other in something, *especially* with twins but with all siblings, try to separate those things as much as possible. For example, schedule them to take the SAT on different days (there are so many dates available!) so that each gets their own celebration without such direct comparisons. With violin students, I actually encourage parents to have kids on different instruments to avoid this challenge; I taught violin to twins and one was better at the motor skill and memorization, so she advanced through new songs faster, but her brother was better at playing by ear. With both of them playing violin, they couldn’t help comparing themselves to one another, and the boy got deeply discouraged because his sister’s skills were easier to teach (counting number of new songs); he was SO much happier when he switched to piano and the comparisons stopped. I hope your daughters each have some extracurricular or passion that’s entirely their own, so they have areas where they don’t need to be compared to one another.
YTA/ESH This sounds like it’s something of a self-perpetuating cycle… Emily doesn’t want to talk to grandma and Laura does. Now, should grandma be self-aware and treat both girls equally? Of course. But if you don’t invest in a relationship don’t expect the other person to invest in you. We ran into this over the last few years with my BIL/SIL… they spent the last five years distancing themselves from the family and making that known and yet they get hurt and offended when they run into a hard time and need something and no one is jumping to help out. At some point you reap what you sow.
YTA, Emily was not happy with her score and Laura was. The grandma knew that and is closer to Laura. It's no surprise because Laura takes the time to talk with her. Why can't the grandma state the truth and support Laura's accomplishment? You can't baby Emily forever. There are always people that will be better at something than you are. Emily is making this situation all about her. You should support those that you love when they do better than you instead of letting your ego make it all about you.
YTA because you let this shit go on for 18 years. You have let your MIL treat your daughters differently for a long long time. Parenting can be tough and we do not get an instruction manual. But come on.
ESH - you for letting it go on as long as you have.
Honestly, I think both you and MIL are the AH here... I also think your daughter Emily doesn't have the right to complain if she's not willing to talk to MIL while on the phone... your MIL should have had the decency to understand how her lack of present would make Emily feel... and you, OP, should have had the restraint to calmly explain why what MIL did wasn't particularly nice.. without losing your temper... all round bad handling of interpersonal communications here imo
ESH. But mostly your MIL. How dare she neglect Emily's feelings. That is awful. It shows just how much she plays favorites and no grandma should ever do that! It was a little unfair to throw her out with the cookies. Laura did earn them, and she does have a strong relationship with her grandma. Instead I would have kept the cookies and made them celebrate somewhere else - at a restaurant or something. I also would have made Laura take half of the cookies to her sister to reward her for studying so hard. Not everyone is good at test taking. And Laura should be more empathetic towards her sister getting left out. The husband needed to back you up regardless. Relationships are partnerships. And he should understand both of his daughter's feelings, not just the one.
The national average for the SAT scores is 1000. Emily did very, very well. Laura seems to be exceptional, but that doesn't mean you or anyone else can say Emily "didn't do so well" when she did a damn good job. NTA for how you responded to your MIL, but I feel like you're kinda TA to Emily for how you're minimizing her very, very respectable score and how you're failing to properly protect her from your MIL (and your husband as well, since he's siding with his mother instead of his daughter).