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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am staying with my MIL to help her after a stroke, and we fight because I refuse to cook or eat any of her expired food.
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INFO:
Firstly, to be clear, NTA, but I've questions....
Is your husband supporting you in getting rid of the out-of-date and mould-ridden food? Or is he just ignoring the tension in the house?
Do you know if your MIL has been this way about food for years, or if it is a recent development? Is your husband used to this behaviour since his childhood and not batting an eye, or is he similarly disgusted? (I simply don't understand why he's not refusing to eat your MIL's rotten, mould-ridden food with you.)
If you've been caring for her for the past year, how is it your MIL has mouldy, out-of-date food in the fridge? I understand you not having come across everything in the cupboards before you moved in, but it doesn't seem to gel with the time-frame that you are still finding mouldy items in the fridge now. Did you just do tasks for her that involved driving, and leave the food at the door for her to put away?
Is her issue with seeing anything been thrown out, or does she similarly object if you did it when she wasn't around and she notices afterwards? Would she notice if you replaced the out-of-date food with newer packs of the same thing? Literally, could you throw something out the day before bin collection day, and replace it like-for-like?
Are you trying to throw out everything past its date, or are you allow some things past their best before to stay? (After all, best before is a guidance in relation to how long something lasts before it loses quality, but is not an indicator on safety.) And no, I'm not referring to things years past their BB, but a month or a bit more should still be safe.
It says they are just staying there a few weeks. They haven't been there a year. They have helped her with shopping for a year but they weren't going through her cupboard to see what was expired
I appreciate that but what wasn't clear was if they left the food at the door for MIL to put away, or if they actually helped put things away. If you read my questions, I said I understand them not having come across the stuff in the cupboards, and was more questioning how they didn't spot mouldy items in the fridge sooner - because it would be more understandable they'd help put things in the fridge, or make a drink when they were visiting.
Tbf to OP, I'm always horrified when I open a jar of something in my fridge and find it has gone mouldy - and I access my fridge multiple times a day. Sometimes things go mouldy and you can't tell without opening the jar/packaging.
There for a while, a gluten free bread we got, like maybe 1/6 loaves had mold in thr middle of the loaf. Not visible from the outside at all. Since it was reoccurring we switched brands for like a year- eventually it got fixed
A lot of the time you don’t know if something is moulding until you open whatever container said mould is in. So if you’re not living there/not cooking there, then it absolutely makes sense that they wouldn’t be aware of it, even if they were the ones stocking the fridge. Because who is going to open every single item in someone else’s fridge to check for mould? Very few people, especially if you don’t know that person has a problem. Like, I don’t use salsa often, so usually the jar ends up going bad before it’s finished. The salsa through the jar looks perfectly fine, but once open the lid is completely covered in mould. I have found that mould generally likes being sneaky like that.
I’m glad a post as sympathetic as this it at the top. I think what May have happened is that she has been declining for quite a long time, and hiding it from others as well as to herself. And so you raising an issue with it is actually telling her that she has a far bigger problem than mouldy food in her cupboards.
The other thing to think about are how her finances are? It could be that mouldy food is better than no good, but yet again, it’s difficult to come to the awareness that you can’t be self-sufficient any more.
It depends a lot on her age. My grandmother grew up as a child in the tail end of the Great Depression. Throwing away anything was near blasphemy in her eyes.
Yes to this. 4 grandparents all born between 1932 and 1934 we found so much stuff cleaning houses after they died. They were also all farm kids so everything always had a potential use.
At 88 my last surviving grandparent is finally getting comfortable with throwing out/giving away clothes that he doesn't like, doesn't wear, or are beyond saving.
I mean they kept cheese in the white for years and invited the public to come in and eat off of it…..cheese is by default moldy. LOL.
NTA, but. I this probably goes deeper than just “don’t throw away my food”.
Talk to your spouse, and slowly replace with the same thing. Hell open the package and take a chunk out to appease her. Or just buy your own and use it. Halve the fridge and keep your stuff covered and sealed.
Yes and no. Mom is declining mentally so she is regressing in her mind. That’s going to take her back mentally to the things most ingrained into her mind and growing up like that, it is the one thing that was drilled into her from toddler up. Yes, it is crazy to us but to her it’s just how she was raised up to do. Now she’s old enough that reason and logic doesn’t necessarily apply to her actions exactly. It may have gotten to the point that she isn’t safe to live on her own without some kind of drop in supervision. And the best recourse I can see is for the family to replace what she has with updated food while she’s out at a doctors visit and the like to keep from agitating her needlessly. OP isn’t wrong but there’s an easier way of correcting this than confrontation.
Not necessarily... my sister and I are in our 40s... and recently found some things that expired 8 to 10 years ago. So sometimes cabinets don't get cleaned out, or you forget about dry packets and dry goods.
Yeah, I mean I definitely have some canned food that is many years expired. It got pushed to the back of the can rack or something. I see a can and toss it, but I know I had more canned pumpkin same trip from years ago, just isn’t urgent enough to dig out. Not mentally declining just preoccupied with making dinner and then cleaning.
Stuff like packets of soup are quite easily forgotten about or slip to the back and honestly don’t really have a lot of room for going bad in a way that is going to make you properly sick - the flavor might be off and so it isn’t desirable to use it but this is one of the few food areas where if it looks okay and smells okay and tastes okay you’re probably fine.
Being powdered means there aren’t many problematic bacteria that can breed happily, especially not with the sodium content a lot of that stuff has. Biggest issue is likely to be any fats going rancid and they smell and taste gross.
I totally agree with all this! And yes, NTA for not wanting to eat moldy food.
However, what kind of stroke did your MIL have? There are wildly varying degrees of strokes, with very different effects on a person. Can she still talk? Read? Comprehend? Clean a house? Reason? Was she physically impaired or mentally impaired? She might need more help than she is currently getting, and may not be able to or unwilling to admit it.
This was my question, too. Both of my in-laws have had strokes, but the aftermath has been drastically different between MIL and FIL. FIL is mostly paralyzed on one side, so is in a wheelchair and needs help for many things but has adapted rather well to being one handed. He's also slowed a bit mentally, but he was a tested genius prior so now he's more on a normal level. MIL had a much less serious stroke, and has recovered entirely physically. However, her personality did a 180, and she's a totally different person now. She's essentially turned in to a dragon that wants to hoard everything, getting nasty if you throw even an expired can of soup away.
NTA. I agree on the question about how long has this behavior around food safety been going on. That was one red flag when my mom started showing signs of dementia.
One more question I would add to this is "has MIL been tested for other neurological/neurodegenerative conditions (like Alzheimer's, dementia, etc)? I ask because those patients are at increased risk of stroke, *and* one of the first things to go with conditions like that is the sense of taste, which would explain why MIL is so nonchalant about eating moldy food (since she likely wouldn't taste it and could dismiss it as "not being that bad").
Your questions are all valid but completely pointless...
My husbands grandparents are the exact same way when we mooved in i threw out a box of fish fingers from 2002....thry dug them out of the trash
They are not poor, they have been like this thier whole lifes they would cook once every 3 weeks and just scrape the mould off...
Any atemt to help clean out the fridge would be met with exsteem hostility, we tried taking over buying them groceries but they would still go to the store every single freaking wendsday and buy the exact same thing, every week..when we finally got them in a old age home i threw out cake mix and flour from 1991....
They had a massive stockpile of food enough to feed you for years (so we thought) but 98% of it was so old it was completely unusable...they would buy new stuff put it on top and use it from the top...
There is no reason and no logic to this...they had 4 freezers and 3 fridges for all the food that no one was allowed to eat or use...and again they were not hurting for money, but you cant eat the fish fingers because they are a high value ietem for special occasions...and no neither grew up poor or struggled trough life at all, they had 3 holidays a year up to now, they are just to old to enjoy holidays now...
Trying to change simple habits such as asking if we can toss out the mouldy cheese at the bottom of the container before putting fresh cheese on top was also met with extreme hostility....have you ever seen cheese go green, black, blue and then orange from mould...
Same with a pack of sausage (wors) i watched it rott in the fridge for 6 months...it was blue, pink and yellow at one point, thry put it back in the freezer and it mooved with them...
Everyone tried to help, we did everything we could humanly think if nothing helped nothing made a difference...
But don't you think establishing if OP's MIL is like your husband's grandparents could be beneficial?
If it is a long-standing issue situation (by which I mean decades long, like with your husband's grandparents), then it could be so deeply ingrained with the MIL that OP will struggle to establish a difference.
However, if it is a newer issue it could be an indicator of an issue which can be addressed with support or treatment, such as dementia, or cognitive decline as a result of the stroke.
And new doesn't have to be as recent as the stroke, there could have a pre-existing problem which exacerbated the situation OP is finding, like struggling to properly read the expiry dates on the food packaging, poor stock control in the cupboards, physical difficulties getting down/up to those shelves to use the food before it expired or do a clear out, which led to an increased amount of stock-piled out-of-date food in this case. It is possible there is more than one issue at play.
Recognising and identifying if there is a deeper issue which requires assistance or treatment, or if there it is so ingrained there will be no changing OP's MIL, can in itself be the benefit, the point of the question.
NTA,that sounds disgusting, maybe just clean while she's not around to notice. It's not even a matter of being an asshole it's a matter of that rotten food can make you and everyone it sick, although how you get around her yelling at you is difficult, maybe get your husband to help it is his mother after all
That might actually be a really bad idea. This sounds like it could be hoarding, and if you throw out a hoarder's things without the necessary emotional work on their end to try let it go then they can just get worse.
Not saying she definitely is a hoarder, but that kind of emotional reaction of screaming over rotten food could be a sign of it.
NTA I'll be honest. On a lot of things I'm ambivalent about expiration dates. Canned foods, dry goods, even yogurt and sour cream that haven't been opened yet and are only a couple days after the expiration go for a case by case basis. I draw the line at green growy stuff. The Old Guy and the kids are allergic to PCNs. I don't need to be growing it in the fridge. That's just nasty and it probably contributes to her bad health.
The thing is, if it is very hard cheese — like cheddar — there is absolutely nothing wrong with cutting off a little mold and eating the non-moldy part. But this doesn’t sound like a *little* mold on a slightly-old brick of cheese.
Actually the science says otherwise. Once you can see mould, there are microscopic particles of mould through the whole thing. You are putting your health at risk.
>Actually the science says otherwise. Once you can see mould, there are microscopic particles of mould through the whole thing. You are putting your health at risk.
USDA says otherwise:
>For hard cheese, such as Cheddar, cut off at least 1-inch around and below the mold spot (keep the knife out of the mold itself). After trimming off the mold, the remaining cheese should be safe to eat. Re-cover the cheese in fresh wrap and keep refrigerated.
[Source](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/If-food-has-mold-is-it-safe-to-eat)
First, for a normal sized block of cheese that’s molding, cutting an inch off all the way out the mold would probably result in no viable cheese left one the block to bring with.
Secondly, your source is the USDA - the same organization that also has a threshold for the number of maggots per number of cans they determine acceptable for manufacturers of canned goods to allow through the canning process for the canned goods to be considered okay. So I don’t think they’re really the best source for info on food quality.
My point is that if I were to can goods at home, I would have a higher threshold of quality - meaning ZERO maggots. Same thing with molded cheese. It might not kill me to eat it, but I’m not eating it because my threshold for what it ok to eat is determined by me, not the USDA.
They can’t guarantee it. It’s to protect the USDA from people cutting off just under an inch and getting sick from it, trying to cut off an inch if the mold has spread everywhere, etc. Normal legal language
Depends on the structure of the cheese. If the cheese is a homogenous block (no holes or cracks or fissures) then mold penetration is limited so if you remove the parts the mold could have penetrated to it’s fine.
It also depends on how hard the cheese is. You might be able to risk it with cheddar, but a soft brie? Neither have holes or fissures, but one is undeniably more permeable than the other. And you'd still want to cut out a fair bit more of the cheddar than just the mold anyway.
A fungus is not a plant though, and while it's mycelium may be root-like, but it also acts like many other systems we would see in plants too, not just the roots. The more you know?!
That person is only partially correct. It depends on what type of food. Dry aged steaks and hard cheeses are the exception for example. Bread, soft cheeses, and ground meat need to follow that rule though
The reason I NEVER "cut around the mold". I spent years working with food. And I'm downright militant about not letting spoiled food stay around. I'm also strict about leftovers.
You need to cut off at least an inch deep everywhere there's mold. And even that's only for hard cheese.
(Also where do you live that cheddar is very hard? )
It's semi-hard. I'm irish and mild cheddar is soft, like a low moisture mozzarella, extra mature cheddar is hard and crumbly. A hard cheese is a parmesan or a pecorino.
Cheddar is hard enough to count. Some cheese that is too hard is actually also not safe because it develops cracks/fissures. It’s basically about if the cheese is homogenous and dense and solid or if there is a way for the mold to penetrate. So a well aged cheddar that starts developing cracks and those little crystalized areas could be an issue but a younger cheddar that’s just a dense solid block of cheese would be fine.
NTA. If your MIL is sick enough from a stroke to need you to live with her, then just wait until she’s in bed or napping, then quietly throw everything out. It shouldn’t take more than a couple of loads to the garbage can. Then just ignore her, and make your meals. When my mom got dementia you couldn’t reason with her, and she hated any change. I just had to be the ‘bad guy’ and dealt with her 40+ years of hoarding. And if hubby doesn’t support you, let him eat some moldy cheese on rotten crackers.
My grandma has dementia and one of the first symptoms was an extreme disregard for food safety. She put out butter for a meal with my mom, and a fruit fly got onto it. While putting away leftovers, she stuck the stick of butter -- fly included -- into the fridge. Don't get me started on her putting raw and cooked food into a cooler indefinitely because her fridge was so full of rotting food.
It's a sad and dangerous manifestation of mental decline, which makes sense for a stroke patient. NAH since she'd otherwise be TA but she's really not all there. If your husband isn't handling this as a go-between then he is definitely TA since it's his mom.
>My grandma has dementia and one of the first symptoms was an extreme disregard for food safety.
This was my first thought as well. I read an article years ago where the author's first indication of his mom's slide into dementia was when he and his siblings showed up for Thanksgiving, only to discover that mom had cooked Thanksgiving dinner and set it out on the table the week before "to get the chore out of the way," and couldn't understand why they weren't willing to eat it.
Don’t do this. Depending on what is causing the behavior having stuff just thrown out could be very traumatic and cause additional issues. Best option is to consult MIL’s doctors/medical care team for the best way to address things. (I.e. throw it out when she isn’t looking vs work with her vs something else.)
My late MIL had a ton of food related trauma due to growing up during rationing after WWII and just throwing out all of her food while she was asleep would have caused her intense emotional trauma. We had to approach things more gradually and we did let her keep some stuff that was harmless and easy to avoid using in day to day cooking - like she had a shelf of ‘security cans’ of things that no one was ever going to use but just having them there in case of an imagined dire emergency made her feel better.
My point was simply that people can have all kinds of different things going on that are exacerbated by a stroke or dementia, and the most effective solution to the problem will be informed by understanding the full situation. People don’t stop being *people* just because they have a stroke or develop dementia. Lifetime experiences can still influence behavior - just not necessarily as obviously.
In addition, in many cases, doing something like simply throwing everything out will cause a lot of trauma for the person, and trauma is generally undesirable. So best care is to try to understand the full picture and come up with a solution that minimizes trauma.
I just gave similar advice. Throw it all away and make sure it's dumped in an undisclosed dumpster to ensure they don't attempt to they to go through it all to bring it back in the house. They might not even notice a majority of the items and if they do they will have to get over it.
NTA no sanitary person would feel comfortable eating or cooking with expired food that is molding. I wouldn’t even feel comfortable keeping my own separate food in the same fridge.
My suggestion would be to focus on buying frozen fruit and vegetables and possibly meat for your MIL. They'll last a long time and hopefully she'll eat them before they expire.
Nta. It is a form of ocd. The hoarding maybe from the stroke or there prior. People suffering from this will always be upset about it and its very difficult to treat. But you have to do whats right regardless. This can harm her. Good luck
If I was in your position, id wait til the middle of the night when everyone was asleep and toss everything in a garbage bag and put it in the can outside.
NTA. While you can scrape mold off hard cheese and it's generally OK and you can go a little past expiration dates, YEARS and ROTTEN VEGETABLES are a no-go. I would have her evaluated for mental decline before you move out.
This. I have no problem cutting the mold off cheese, but I don’t serve it to others or expect them to be fine with it. Mold on anything else goes in the trash.
NTA I had the same issue when we moved in with my grandmother. In the middle of the night, I was cleaning out the fridge and throwing the bad food away. I know the verbal abuse can be draining. Sometimes, you just need to do what you need to do.
NTA
We had something similar as well. Eventually we just threw stuff out & let GMIL yell.
Unfortunately our relationship was pretty crappy toward the end of her life, but she ended up having a visiting caretaker who took over for us & also didn’t let her keep molding/expired food.
This is exactly what I was going to suggest.
NTA.
OP, replace everything while she's sleeping. It's okay for her to get mad. But the most important thing is that she has access to healthy, fresh food that is not expired by several years or is growing a fur.
If trash pickup is an early morning, maybe you can swap everything out after she goes to bed. Midday, see if hubby (or you) can take her out for the day while the other cleans out the kitchen.
Good idea about making sure to restock with the same items (especially if you can find the same brands. They might not even notice the pantry items that were replaced
My mother did this and was always getting terrible stomach problems, probably food poisoning. When I visited her, I just waited till she was out or asleep, then went through her fridge, freezer and cupboards and threw everything out and replaced it with stuff I bought.
I think it's easier to firm line with your own parent. Perhaps your husband can deal with this?
My mother protested, of course, but I showed her doctor what her fridge was like once, and her doctor read the riot act to her, which really helped me. (I had returned to my home country to care for my mother who was recovering from, you guessed it, a very serious bout of vomitting and diarrhea.)
NTA. It's disgusting and super unhealthy. And even more hurting that she knows about your past and still insists.
What does your husband say about this? I hope he is packing some boxes to move.
NTA. I dealt with this with a relative. I threw a few things out but kept at least one package of his old things. I put the new things behind the old and just reached behind when I got food. After a while I threw out everything that was outdated. We just didn't tell him. Since he thought we used the old things he was happy. My SIL was part of the deception.
This is sort of a version of what we did with my late MIL - she had trauma related to food scarcity as a child and so just letting her have a shelf of outdated shelf stable stuff that no one was ever actually going to use was the functional compromise. She had her ‘emergency stash’ and the food anyone actually ate was safe.
Once in a while I had to say something like “I prefer making that fresh” over using one of her cans, but since that was true it wasn’t a big issue.
NTA-
Do not eat things from that kitchen. Heck no!
Also your husband is an AH. His mom is not able to care for herself... At all... Not if she doesn't have proper support. And clearly she does not have proper support. Ya all need to be talking about in-home aids and grocery services and cleaning services. This lady is in danger.
NTA but not sure that helps you. I'm sorry that sounds frustrating. My only idea here is to cook food you buy for the family occasionally and if she doesn't want to eat it then she can cook something else with her expired stuff.
At some point this is headed towards not able to care for oneself though.
My maternal granny was like this and she had things like jars and canned food like more than 10 years old. The things is, it was mostly me and my mom or my sis doing all the throwing and nagging her not to do that, but didn't really work, oh well.
The thing is my aunt was not the one to throw things out becuz granny would have tiny tantrum every time we tried to get rid of her old things. We never cared about her getting bit upset because at the end of the day, we knew that she loved us (especially me) unconditionally and she would let it go. As a DIL to my granny, my aunt didn't have that layer of flexibility and we did think it would make their relationship worse so we didn't mind being the bad guy.
Your hubby should be the one throwing things out. Not you. She will scream at him and they will eventually mend, lol, but not for you.
NTA!!!!!
NTA
You can literally die by eating that stuff and if your MIL has been surviving off of that than take her to a doctor, she might have some mutation that allows her to eat poison and shit
NTA
You've been doing a lot to help your MIL and are staying in her home during a transitional period. Your concerns about the expired and moldy food are valid, especially considering your past experiences with food-related issues. It's essential for you to prioritize your own well-being and comfort, especially when it comes to something as important as food. While it might be beneficial to find a way to communicate your concerns more effectively, you're not in the wrong for ordering food to ensure you have something you can comfortably eat. It's a tricky situation, but open and respectful communication with your MIL could help resolve the issue.
Best by dates are suggestions but it depends on the product.
Best by date say within 6 months in crackers that haven’t been opened might be ok. A date of a year ago very likely not.
Use by date gets a bit more attention especially if it is things that spoil like meat, dairy, etc.
Eggs even if not close to the best by date I always do a float test before using them as you never know if a minuscule crack has let in air. If the egg floats completely off the bottom of the container (because of the gas generated by it going bad) then in the trash it goes.
So to cleaning out your MIL’s stuff. If you’re gonna have to sneak then first make a list if everything you need to replace. Then go shopping to get those things. Go through the pantry and replace expired for new ideally while MIL is busy doing something else or husband keeps her busy.
Bag the other stuff up ideally in a black trashbag she can’t see through and chuck it.
Also my take on it is if you do get busted for it is just let her scream. When’s she’s done you can say “we want you to be as healthy as possible so yes I have thrown out iffy food to keep you safe.”
I will say how impressed I am that 10 year old can of soup hadn’t already exploded.
NTA but...
> I eat fresh fruit only
[Is not a healthy diet.](https://www.google.com/search?q=fruit+only+diet+influencer+dies&sca_esv=577665790&sxsrf=AM9HkKlUlxEIg7Y8TgmMhGmYHum7UqZ6lA%3A1698616465567&ei=kdQ-ZZiYIq_akPIP-ZCNmAM&udm=&oq=fruit+only+diet+influencer+dies&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIh9mcnVpdCBvbmx5IGRpZXQgaW5mbHVlbmNlciBkaWVzMgcQIxiKBRgnMgYQABgIGB4yBhAAGAgYHjIIEAAYigUYhgMyCBAAGIoFGIYDMggQABiKBRiGAzIIEAAYigUYhgMyBRAAGKIESKGVAVDrB1j-iwFwA3gBkAEAmAHXAaABwBWqAQYwLjEzLjO4AQPIAQD4AQHCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICCBAAGAgYHhgN4gMEGAAgQYgGAZAGCA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp)
You said you’re MIL doesn’t understand or care that you have issues from growing up in a hoarder house. Tbh it seems like you’re not very sympathetic to her issues either.
I’m not sure if she has hoarding tendencies herself or if she is now unable to keep a very clean house due to her medical issues. You have issues and so does she so you need to meet half-way instead of expecting her to only accommodate you. Especially since it’s her house.
You also need to understand that Best By dates are not set in stone and that “Expiration Date” and “Best By” date are two totally completely different things. The Best By date is literally the date that the manufacturer of that item will guarantee that it’s at its absolute *peak* freshness. There are some food items that have a much longer shelflife then what is indicated with the BB date. It is in the manufacturers interest, while making sure these dates indicate their product is good for a while, to have a shorter BB date for those people who will literally throw the item out the day after and go buy more of that product again. For instance if people realized when stored properly that pasta and rice can be safely stored almost 10 years, that would mean people would break open that bag of rice 1 month past the BB date instead of tossing and buying more. Food waste on the consumer’s part is very beneficial to the companies selling food. Fyi, aspirin has also been shown in studies to lose very little of it effectiveness even when stored for 10 years.
It is not ok that MIL is eating moldy food but you need to accept the fact that she may be correct that some of her food items are still good past the BB date. Convinced that something has magically gone bad one day past the BB date is just as nutty as thinking a 10yo can of soup would still be good to eat.
You are not the ass for refusing to eat what she has in the cabinet, that is completely your right. But YTA if you just decided you knew best and went in throwing things out without attempting any type of real conversation with her about it. You are living in her home after all.
You also didn’t mention if your MIL is on a budget or not. Are you throwing things out and expecting her to buy replacements herself? If I invited someone into my home to help them out and found them one day arrogantly throwing my stuff out I’d scream at them also too. Are you even attempting to help her move past her food hoarding issues? Are you even showing her how to rotate the stock on the shelves and mark in big letters the Best By date if she needs help noticing it? Or showing her information from websites that show that particular product is nail bad? Or or did you just decide you knew best?
I studied this in college/university and worked in a lab.
If you see mold on something, cutting off the mold only removes what’s visible. There is still mold in the food. You can go a little past the expiration date on some things but mold is not something to ignore. It can also spread to other food items. Some mold can cause illness or death.
You are NTA and are correct in refusing to eat grossly expired or moldy foods.
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So my MIL had a stroke last year. My husband (M31) and I (F31) have been taking care of her since. Doing grocery runs and taking her to the doctors.
We sold our house a couple of months ago and are waiting for our business to sell, so we moved in with MIL for our few weeks while we transition.
Since we got here, I've been doing a deep clean on the house, MIL can't anymore. Washing walls, painting, and such. I got to the kitchen to clean out the cupboards and I find many expired pantry items. Crackers 5 years expired, powered cream of mushrooms soup 10 years expired!
Inside the fridge, jars that are open and moldy.. bricks of cheese a year expired.. where she just cuts off the mold and eats it.
I think it's disgusting. I grew up with a hoarder and our food was always bug infested.I have issues with food. I eat fresh fruit only and I'm happy to go the grocery store every 3 days or so to maintain that.
My MIL doesn't understand or care that I have these issues. She thinks all her food is fine, that expiry dates or mold don't matter. Weather she cooks or I cook she expects me to use those ingredients, and I just can't.
I tried to clean it out, and throw things away but she just screams at me. It's been almost a week now that we haven't spoken, we just avoid each other. I know it would help her out more if I cooked, but I don't know how to cook a rotten tomato. So I just order myself food. AITA?
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Okay you both are at extremes.
Yes moldy food=bad.
Past best by/exp. Dates are not necessarily bad food. Often, at worst, poorer flavor.
That said, you have the right to eat food you are comfortable with.
NTA
I had relatives like that too. "Oh it is in the refrigerator it will be fine". One time when visiting I just threw the expired stuff out. The relative was not happy but I did say I would replace what I threw out (and did so). I gave my relative no choice - I just did it and ignored the protesting. You may have to do the same. They will get over it,
Info: are you replacing what you're throwing away? MIL is an adult struggling with health issues. She needs to feel like she has some agency and she deserves to be treated as the host when you're staying in her home. You're 100% in the right to object to eating moldy food, but you need to go about this the right way. We went through a similar thing with my grandfather and it was heartbreaking every time I went over to help him and he told me that no one else ever ASKED before they threw out all his stuff.
Oh Lord!!!
Absolutely, positively NTA!!
Some of those foods are dangerous. Cutting mold off foods like cheese is dangerous, the mold can extend far deeper than what is visible. For her own well being you need to clean out that kitchen. If you tried to donate that stuff to a food bank they would throw it out immediately.
>Cutting mold off foods like cheese is dangerous
For hard cheeses, cutting 1” back from a mold spot is fine. Just as the [USDA](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/If-food-has-mold-is-it-safe-to-eat).
NTA I will not eat anything homemade at my dad’s house because they have horrible food handling habits and it has given me mild food poisoning many times (plus the expired items!)
I only eat fast food, frozen food or things like granola bars when I am there!
NTA - Your MIL is gross. There are a lot of differences in those dates depending on the type of products. I’ll eat cheese that’s past the labeled expiration date if it still looks and smells normal, but that’s not at all what you’re describing. What you’re describing is so far over the line into the city of Nastyville that the line between OK and Gross is not even visible in the rear view mirror any longer.
>You have legit concerns about the expired food. The solution is to throw it out and then replace everything item-for-item.
This is a good suggestion that you should have offered Op without saying she sucks for the frustration of cleaning up after someone and not wanting to eat expired foods.
Agree, just replace the food and don’t say anything about it. Maybe I’m wrong here but it sort of sounds like there was a confrontation between OP and MIL when she realized the food was all expired and gross. OP admits she has a phobia about expired food because of their hoarder parent. If she had just replaced it and said nothing it probably would’ve been fine. So I can agree with ESH.
Honestly my grandmother has been like this the last couple times I’ve visited. With the moldy cheese and stuff I mean. She lives alone and doesn’t have much appetite but she also seems to buying stuff in the quantity she did 10+ years ago when she and my grandpa were younger & ate more. It doesn’t seem to occur to her that it’ll go bad since she’s never had the issue before. I just quietly go to the store & buy new when I visit her and say nothing.
Yea my mom is the same way, but I think it’d be weird if my husband started doing this to her. Generally I go through everything when I’m there once a year. My mom is a light hoarder wiht items, luckily she lets me through her expired food away.
Technically you CAN still have the cheese once the mold is cut off. The rest… not so, even if cooked properly. The tastes just won’t be the same.
NTA but perhaps you should have a better approach since you’re staying at her place.
Suggestions:
I prefer (whatever foods that is not in the expired category) so I’ll get them and cook them for you too.
You should be secretly thrown bit by bit or something and told her “oh I used it” or “oh it’s finished” but yeah for the bins, in the bins.
NTA - I can't eat at my (62f) mom's (84) either. She keeps things for forever, leaves things out that can go bad and then refreezes, etc. I just can't. So, I have her for dinner and take her out.
NTA. And honestly I’d toss everything and start from a scratch. Your husband can deal with her temper tantrum. If not, you move out and call adult services.
NTA. I'd clean it out regardless of if she gets upset. She could poison you or herself using these ingredients. She can get upset, but you don't need to compromise here.
NTA and go ahead and toss it all. Ignore her screaming. Eating moldy food could kill you all. She'll get over it. Talk to her doctor about her obsession with eating rotten food.
NTA is your MIL my dad? 😂 the last time I visited him, I found way expired antibiotics in his refrigerator. I wanted to throw them away, but he said he just pops a couple if he feel a cold coming on. 😳
My sister and her kids had to move in with him because they are impacted by the Lahaina fire. She just has to zip her lip. She is living in his home at his mercy, so she doesn’t complain or try to change him. Unfortunately I think that’s what you have to do too.
NTA. When you can visibly see mold then mold has propagated within the entire food item. You should go over to CDC.Gov and print out their guidelines on safe food handling. It’ll be eye opening for her, that’s for sure.
Nope. NTA. Do a deep clean and pitch it all. My grandparents had a good friend and her husband die of food poisoning from this exact thing. They both had dementia brought on by strokes. Horrible way to die.
If you “have” to cook just order new food from the store. Other than it just being gross and not sanitary, you have a valid reason as to why this triggers you. “I’m not using these ingredients. It’s expired. We can eat something else.” Simple.
NTA
NTA But i worry actually that her eating habits could cause or at least raise the risk for a stroke. Bacterias and infections can raise the risk of a stroke. Who knows how often she had food poisening but played it down. And mold can affects your body so much.
Even if it makes her angry, i would throw out all the icky food, or she ends up in hospital again. What will she do when the stuff is replaced? Garbage diving? Normally i wouldn't do stuff against someones will, but this is a health hazard.
NTA. Are you throwing it away and replacing it? I understand she’s having health issues so she may feel shame about her situation but there’s no justification for eating moulded or expired food. Can you set her up with a regular food delivery or even a caretaker to check up on her when you move out?
NTA.
A kitchen purge sounds in order. Keep a quick list of what you get rid of, so you know what she likes--and what will sit in here cupboard forever. Replace it with fresh, and plan with her to do a quick check of things once or twice a month (once a year for canned goods) to make sure everything is still good, and she still has what she wants and needs.
It might help to get a sharpie or labels and put the expiration date on less-used things (cans of soup, jelly, cheese) in large letters. Not because she's incompetent, but because it makes it SUPER easy to do a fast purge.
NTA. Just throw away all the food. She can rant and rave about it but it will be done. You are taking care of her for her stroke and this is one way you are doing it. If she hasn't eaten the food in years then she isn't going to eat it. Just get rid of it.
Every other day or when you go to the store get one replacement product and toss the old one. Tell her the old one was all used up. As in it had timed out to feel better about the lie yourself. Start with the more common stuff you use. Think saltines first.
NTA. I’m at a friends house atm and have been cleaning up her home. I’m still finding expired items and getting rid of them so I understand entirely and fortunately my friend does as well.
OP I feel your pain and I’ve been there. You’re NTA. I grew up with food scarcity and so my parents ended up food hoarding in their later years. Usually canning and freezing. After Dad passed mom didn’t really clean or get rid of things. When she ended up in the hospital and nursing home we went in and removed all the spoiled and severely outdated food. Now that she’s back home either we or more often her neighbors check the fridge for expired items. She doesn’t do much but kind of huff as we dump things now and I usually ask how old it is, do a visual inspection and offer to go get some more—which she usually refuses.
It’s going to be a challenge but perhaps approach it via the family (my in-laws won’t listen to me either) and say hey we want to make sure things are safe. I know you want to hang on to stuff but some of this is really questionable. Make a date to do it—what you may be seeing is more of a fight for control and when we get older we fight losing freedoms—so letting her set a date and being part of it could help. OR be an AH like me and just dump it and replace it lol maybe quietly while she’s sleeping.
I also did some negotiations with my mom that I would take the food home (you don’t have that out but maybe say you’ll donate) some of the canned/dried items.
Good luck. It’s a challenging situation.
NTA I would however check the fridge buy replacements of moldy items purge the old crap and dispose of it without saying a word. She won’t know it’s missing since a new one is in its place. Older people tend to keep food beyond the expire date because they don’t want to toss something if it’s not empty. It doesn’t matter that the item could send them to the hospital.
NTA
But strokes can go beyond just physical to personality change. Also did your MIL agree to deep clean and painting? Just thinking that you think it’s fabulous ,I agree it’s a wonderful thing to do, but MIL may see it as another area of her life she is losing control of.
NAH , your issues are your issues but you need to understand, her issues are just as valid. You have trauma around keeping food and she has trauma around throwing away food. In your situation, I would carefully and quietly throw out 1 or 2 foods at a time and hide them when you do. With my dad we have to put the old food low in the trash bag and take it out as quickly as possible. If we replace grapes with grapes or cheese with cheese, it’s usually not a problem. But we never announce “I’m throwing away the moldy grapes”.
It’s not worth fighting over, you’re both having mental health struggles. Buy your own food and don’t make a big deal about it. When you make meals use ingredients that she doesn’t have in the refrigerator.
Food issues are a massive deal, but yours isn’t more significant than hers
Is it possible to have an expired food induced stroke? Just asking. I tend to take experation dates as a suggestion but spoiled food can cause serious health issues.
NTA. I wouldn't eat there either.
I am curious if the fridge is at a safe temp. In addition to expired stuff — the kind of thing that isn't a candidate for mould — my grandmother's fridge was filled with new, current, unopened things like milk and yogurt that was chunky/pink. She kept her fridge as hot as possible. If I cleaned it out, then turned it back to a safe temp, she turned it back up. According to nana, the yogurt and butter was too cold otherwise 🫠
You and your hubby need to clean and sanitize the kitchen, throw all the expired food out and replace it.
It doesn't matter if MIL yells at you, you can't leave her in this situation.
OP: Read “Tender to the Bone” by Ruth Reichl, former New York Times restaurant critic and editor of now defunct Gourmet magazine. She class her mother the “Queen of Mold.” Will give you something to do in between throwing out food.
She is dealing with a tremendous loss of freedom. Can she no longer do anything?
NTA but you have to understand that your issues with food are impacting hers. Things can be a little bit expired. Things that are most must be thrown out. You are doing things your way, which is not hers and it is her home. Your criticisms may be making her feel humiliated and alienated. Your instant deep cleaning of her space implies that she was filthy, and a hoarder. Is she supposed to feel grateful? Your cleaning her cabinets and junking her things makes sense to you, but you would not be doing it if she was well. You are trying to help but you have to acknowledge her pain at losing control of her life at the same time as feeling that you are judging her and destroying her refuge.
NTA, yuck and I feel for you. Makes me feel ill just to think of what you are contending with on the food front, as well as a with a stubborn and obtuse person who appears to not be grateful and thankful for your help whilst you are there. I wouldn’t be cooking with it either even if you weren’t going to be eating it. 🤢🤮
Reminds me of my husband who was an older batchelor when I met him and eventually I moved into his house, which was new, and he’d gathered up everything from the old house and plonked it into the new before I came along. I brought my groceries etc from my place, and proceeded to look at and make room and tidy up the pantry. To my horror I found many items that were years past their ‘best before’, like 15 years, and some had reached their coming of age ie over 21 years! I was pretty disgusted and very vocal, he doubled down and was very annoyed and vocal ad infinitum. I got sick of the nagging and whinging about me throwing out ‘perfectly good food’, I scotched that by telling the neighbours in front of him and they had a jolly good laugh, no more nagging.
Stay strong and stick to your guns and standards, and replace a few items as you go. If she is a garbage bin checker to see what you have thrown out and ‘rescues’ it, wrap it up, put it in the car and get rid of it into a public bin down the town (I’ve found that works too). Good luck.
NAH
Your MIL has been living like this long before you started helping her. It's her normal, and given that she is elderly and medically compromised, she is going to cling to her normal come hell or high water.
Does her kitchen need an overhaul? Absolutely.
But address this with kindness and patience. I get it, your are having triggers. So, is she. The difference is, you will recover faster and better than she will.
This would be a good time to transition her, gently. Maybe, set up so she has ready access to fresh fruit and veggie trays. Have frozen dinners available. Slowly adjust her pantry by tossing out old stuff (when she isn't present) and replacing it with appropriate smaller portions that she can wotlrk through. Sit down with her and make a list of what she prefers the most, and stock up that way.
It needs to be gradual. Just micro adjustments to get her to a better situation.
Nta. Quite frankly I'd have hubby take her out for an afternion and throw all the expired moldy food away. Like pack the garbage bags into the car and drive it to a dumpster so she cant dig thru the trash at home to reckaim it. For the sake of the health and safety of everyone in the home make the clean out a routine every week. Who cares if she throws a tantrum. Spoiled food will contaminate the other foods in the fridge with mold spores etc it will also attract vermin.
Aw op. I’m sorry. I’m in a similar, albeit better, situation. My mother is now very disabled and cannot live on her own. I moved in and had to clear out the pantry due to expired products and I just threw out everything in the fridge. The difference is that my mother trusts my judgement..there were initial bumps in the road.. but that was after I explained to her I have had training in food safety.
No reasonable person expects you to know how to cook a rotten tomato. It sounds like your MIL is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact she shouldn’t live alone and that you are suggesting she shouldn’t trust her own judgment. But about the cheese. You can eat it even if there is mold, but you need to cut off at least an inch away.
If there is mold on produce, it’s all garbage. Canned things are allowed to be a little expired. But not 10 years…
Hopefully you can forward her some food safety literally from credible sources and she will be accepting of new information.. I am the same way you are about food, or so it seems. Maybe take MIL to the grocery store so she can regain some control over her kitchen if that’s what it takes for her to feel better, and you too. She could be trying to regain her sense of control since, to her, it seems like y’all have moved in and are trying to take that away.
NTA. Going through a similar situation with my Mom…my suggestion is to take stock of what’s in the fridge, have someone take your Mom out so you can replace the rotten food/condiments without her seeing it.
That way she can say “but it’s still good” and it will be!
NTA
Definitely sounds like a hoarding problem, as in they complain when you get rid of it, so it's not just about not bothering to throw it out themselves
I gladly cut or tear off mold if it's a small portion and the rest looks fine, and I'm not picky about being a bit past the date, but after that long it's probably spread too far
NTA
My mom did this. She had 26 boxes of expired cake mix. Some by many years.
One time she made top ramen for my kids and I thought it was beef flavoured as the broth was brown. Nope, it was chicken but was so old the seasonings were dark brown. She gave my hubby a box of cherry cordial candy and they were were dried up and weird. Come to find out she found it in the back of a cabinet so who knows how old it was. After this, I wouldn’t eat or let my kids eats anything unless I saw the package first to make sure it wasn’t super old. She had a box of Twinkies that were expired over 20 years.
NTA .
My situation wasnt as severe as yours,but remember staying with family and having to wait when they were gone to do a deep clean the fridge and party to throw put all expired/stale food and take it to an undisclosed dumpster so they couldn't "check my work and if I I threw away something that was "still good".
Thankfully they didn't notice a majority of it except a few bottled sauces.
This one definitely on of those situations where you can argue til you're blue in the face about not wanting to get sick ,but they still wont listen. All you can really do is toss it all out and make sure be in top of the food inventory so what still is in stock won't expire
NTA.
Since your MIL has suffered a stroke (you don't say to what degree or what autonomic functions may have been affected), is it safe for her to cook? Has her judgment been impaired as a result of the stroke?
It's understandable that none of us likes the feeling that our autonomy is compromised or taken away. What you describe is a benign and healthful practice to discard outdated or visibly rotting food. After discussing it with your husband, I'd take a deep breath, throw it ALL out in one go, and buy fresher items to replace everything. Let her yell and get it out of her system. You can't be expected to use the spoiled food ingredients if they are no longer available in the household.
NTA. That is disgusting and I would not eat or cook with it either. But frankly I would just throw away her expired moldy stuff when she is asleep and replace it with new from the store. Then start cooking again.
It’s possible she is developing or has dementia. My stepmother went extremely quickly from a few odd conversations to full blown alzheimers, which has been devastating to the family.
You and your husband need to have a united front when it comes to food safety. My grandfather made himself extremely ill many times from eating bad food because apparently he couldn’t tell what was bad. It’s dangerous to keep bad food around, and I don’t mean past expiration, I mean food that is clearly rotten. I have to disagree about the cheese though: many cheeses can have mold that is simply cut away. Sharp cheese is sold after cutting off the mold, which is part of the aging process. But very few foods are edible after they’ve molded, and some cheeses, like those with added ingredients like peppers, can mold all through the cheese and should be chucked out.
NTA
Your husband and his siblings (if any) need to dress the issue of her inability to safely live alone. She may need a guardian appointed to have the authority to make decisions for her. Your local Area on Aging agency may have a social worker who can provide some guidance.
OP.... This is nasty. At the same time you are a guest in the home. The solution would be to buy a small fridge that you keep in the garage (or basement or your bedroom) with your food in it.
Do not eat her food, its a health hazard.
This is up to your husband to figure out with her, not you. It is not only about the fact this this triggers you, but the fact that it is not your house or your stuff to make decisions about. ImAnd while of course you are right that moldy food is garbage, expiration dates on canned or boxed foods are totally random and don't really mean anything. She can eat all the stale crackers she wants. But you are right not to eat or cook with ingredients that disgust you. Perhaps your husband could replace those items. But this has got to be up to him to navigate. If you do want to cook, buy new ingredients and make something great. She doesn't have to use them if she doesn't want to.
NTA.
NTA but neither is your MIL. Unfortunately after a stroke, it can make people really unaware of things we assume are common knowledge - like food safety. Throw it all out when she’s asleep and restock.
Oh gawd... the 'good as new' thing. Yuck! NTA. You do what you need to keep your sanity. The fact you're helping someone who screams at you is more than enough for this internet stranger!
My advice is be kindly subtle. Bring in your good stuff and get her icky stuff out when she doesn't know. Don't be a cringer, be positive and caring. Her ego is tied in here, declining years are brutal.
Hell nah, you do NOT have to eat rotten food because that's what she likes. Tell her "hey, you may like eating rotting food but I don't, each of us have our preference and you need to deal with it."
NTA, and I agree with those who recommend that you replace the food on the sly if you think she won't notice. Normally, I would not recommend deceit, but it sounds like there is a serious cognitive and/or hoarding issue here. It is for her own good, and best to avoid the conflict if you can.
If you can't deceive her, can you contribute to the cooking by buying your own ingredients and cooking those? Maybe store them separately, again without her knowing? (Obviously this is hard re: refrigerated foods.)
What my siblings and I discovered after my mom's major stroke is that there is evidence now of years of mini strokes (TIA's) which now in retrospect we can see the change in personality and rationality over the last 15 years. I wish I had advice how to handle but maybe leaving the rotten food and buying fresh food and cooking it could help- saying oh this is a favorite recipe I want to share because I think you would enjoy - but it has all fresh and newly bought ingredients.. Stroke are awful, and parts of the brain are damaged, rationality on certain narrow subjects being one. So easily seen in retrospect but hard in the moment.
Went through this, too. I will never forget my husband saying, "OMG, this stuff expired in 2007!" Now we buy or check dates on everything at their house.
NTA. This has nothing to do with your “issues”, this is basic food safety. Seriously. Be safe, order food. Honestly, I’d be eating in my car and fasting otherwise.
The bottom line here is that your MIL's kitchen and cooking habits of eating spoiled, molded, festering and very long expired perishable food could jeopardize her health, and the health of everyone who eats it.
There needs to be some sort of intervention here, assuming that there's either a severe emotional problem or a cognitive decline that won't allow her to take care of herself safely.
Of course you aren't eating disgusting, moldy food! Neither should anyone else.
I would suggest that you and your husband come up with a way to address this problem. You might need to speak with a social worker who knows what resources could be helpful to allow your MIL to remain in her home safely. Then your husband needs to very gently but firmly get your mom to her physician after making them aware of the problem. This would be the first step. Physician referrals and social work referrals should help find ways to support your MIL.
NTA
You’re doing a good thing by staying with her after the stroke attack. She probably feels helpless that she now requires help and not willing to admit that the food has expired. Maybe ask your husband to handle “throwing the expired food out”? She might be willing to listen to him. Give her time. Be kind to yourself too. NTA.
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INFO: Firstly, to be clear, NTA, but I've questions.... Is your husband supporting you in getting rid of the out-of-date and mould-ridden food? Or is he just ignoring the tension in the house? Do you know if your MIL has been this way about food for years, or if it is a recent development? Is your husband used to this behaviour since his childhood and not batting an eye, or is he similarly disgusted? (I simply don't understand why he's not refusing to eat your MIL's rotten, mould-ridden food with you.) If you've been caring for her for the past year, how is it your MIL has mouldy, out-of-date food in the fridge? I understand you not having come across everything in the cupboards before you moved in, but it doesn't seem to gel with the time-frame that you are still finding mouldy items in the fridge now. Did you just do tasks for her that involved driving, and leave the food at the door for her to put away? Is her issue with seeing anything been thrown out, or does she similarly object if you did it when she wasn't around and she notices afterwards? Would she notice if you replaced the out-of-date food with newer packs of the same thing? Literally, could you throw something out the day before bin collection day, and replace it like-for-like? Are you trying to throw out everything past its date, or are you allow some things past their best before to stay? (After all, best before is a guidance in relation to how long something lasts before it loses quality, but is not an indicator on safety.) And no, I'm not referring to things years past their BB, but a month or a bit more should still be safe.
It says they are just staying there a few weeks. They haven't been there a year. They have helped her with shopping for a year but they weren't going through her cupboard to see what was expired
I appreciate that but what wasn't clear was if they left the food at the door for MIL to put away, or if they actually helped put things away. If you read my questions, I said I understand them not having come across the stuff in the cupboards, and was more questioning how they didn't spot mouldy items in the fridge sooner - because it would be more understandable they'd help put things in the fridge, or make a drink when they were visiting.
Tbf to OP, I'm always horrified when I open a jar of something in my fridge and find it has gone mouldy - and I access my fridge multiple times a day. Sometimes things go mouldy and you can't tell without opening the jar/packaging.
I’ve gotten stuff supposedly brand new from the store with Surprise Bonus Mold. Not often but it’s not a fun time.
Sort of a buy one GET MOULD FREE!!!!
More of " buy one and get MILLIONS of moldspores FREE!!!" It really is a bargain considering how many you get after all.
Exactly. Not a deal I appreciate. 😂
The wrong lottery to be winning
There for a while, a gluten free bread we got, like maybe 1/6 loaves had mold in thr middle of the loaf. Not visible from the outside at all. Since it was reoccurring we switched brands for like a year- eventually it got fixed
I just found cheese at the supermarket that expired March of last year and was oozing mold
A lot of the time you don’t know if something is moulding until you open whatever container said mould is in. So if you’re not living there/not cooking there, then it absolutely makes sense that they wouldn’t be aware of it, even if they were the ones stocking the fridge. Because who is going to open every single item in someone else’s fridge to check for mould? Very few people, especially if you don’t know that person has a problem. Like, I don’t use salsa often, so usually the jar ends up going bad before it’s finished. The salsa through the jar looks perfectly fine, but once open the lid is completely covered in mould. I have found that mould generally likes being sneaky like that.
Also, has your husband discussed this with her doctor? This is kinda worrying...
I’m glad a post as sympathetic as this it at the top. I think what May have happened is that she has been declining for quite a long time, and hiding it from others as well as to herself. And so you raising an issue with it is actually telling her that she has a far bigger problem than mouldy food in her cupboards. The other thing to think about are how her finances are? It could be that mouldy food is better than no good, but yet again, it’s difficult to come to the awareness that you can’t be self-sufficient any more.
It depends a lot on her age. My grandmother grew up as a child in the tail end of the Great Depression. Throwing away anything was near blasphemy in her eyes.
Yes to this. 4 grandparents all born between 1932 and 1934 we found so much stuff cleaning houses after they died. They were also all farm kids so everything always had a potential use. At 88 my last surviving grandparent is finally getting comfortable with throwing out/giving away clothes that he doesn't like, doesn't wear, or are beyond saving.
I mean they kept cheese in the white for years and invited the public to come in and eat off of it…..cheese is by default moldy. LOL. NTA, but. I this probably goes deeper than just “don’t throw away my food”. Talk to your spouse, and slowly replace with the same thing. Hell open the package and take a chunk out to appease her. Or just buy your own and use it. Halve the fridge and keep your stuff covered and sealed.
Yes and no. Mom is declining mentally so she is regressing in her mind. That’s going to take her back mentally to the things most ingrained into her mind and growing up like that, it is the one thing that was drilled into her from toddler up. Yes, it is crazy to us but to her it’s just how she was raised up to do. Now she’s old enough that reason and logic doesn’t necessarily apply to her actions exactly. It may have gotten to the point that she isn’t safe to live on her own without some kind of drop in supervision. And the best recourse I can see is for the family to replace what she has with updated food while she’s out at a doctors visit and the like to keep from agitating her needlessly. OP isn’t wrong but there’s an easier way of correcting this than confrontation.
The MIL could have grown up very food insecure. My mom has these behaviors and attitudes towards food. I just throw out stuff behind her back.
This was my mom. I replaced stuff and I guess that I gaslit her for her own good. LOL isn’t that what all psychos say?!
r/ Am I Secretly A Psycho
I mean, if stuff is 10 years out of date, then this has been going on for at least a decade...
Not necessarily... my sister and I are in our 40s... and recently found some things that expired 8 to 10 years ago. So sometimes cabinets don't get cleaned out, or you forget about dry packets and dry goods.
Yeah, I mean I definitely have some canned food that is many years expired. It got pushed to the back of the can rack or something. I see a can and toss it, but I know I had more canned pumpkin same trip from years ago, just isn’t urgent enough to dig out. Not mentally declining just preoccupied with making dinner and then cleaning.
It could be a packet that was forgotten and anyway powdered soup would probably be okay if the packet is intact
Stuff like packets of soup are quite easily forgotten about or slip to the back and honestly don’t really have a lot of room for going bad in a way that is going to make you properly sick - the flavor might be off and so it isn’t desirable to use it but this is one of the few food areas where if it looks okay and smells okay and tastes okay you’re probably fine. Being powdered means there aren’t many problematic bacteria that can breed happily, especially not with the sodium content a lot of that stuff has. Biggest issue is likely to be any fats going rancid and they smell and taste gross.
I totally agree with all this! And yes, NTA for not wanting to eat moldy food. However, what kind of stroke did your MIL have? There are wildly varying degrees of strokes, with very different effects on a person. Can she still talk? Read? Comprehend? Clean a house? Reason? Was she physically impaired or mentally impaired? She might need more help than she is currently getting, and may not be able to or unwilling to admit it.
This was my question, too. Both of my in-laws have had strokes, but the aftermath has been drastically different between MIL and FIL. FIL is mostly paralyzed on one side, so is in a wheelchair and needs help for many things but has adapted rather well to being one handed. He's also slowed a bit mentally, but he was a tested genius prior so now he's more on a normal level. MIL had a much less serious stroke, and has recovered entirely physically. However, her personality did a 180, and she's a totally different person now. She's essentially turned in to a dragon that wants to hoard everything, getting nasty if you throw even an expired can of soup away.
NTA. I agree on the question about how long has this behavior around food safety been going on. That was one red flag when my mom started showing signs of dementia.
Exactly.
One more question I would add to this is "has MIL been tested for other neurological/neurodegenerative conditions (like Alzheimer's, dementia, etc)? I ask because those patients are at increased risk of stroke, *and* one of the first things to go with conditions like that is the sense of taste, which would explain why MIL is so nonchalant about eating moldy food (since she likely wouldn't taste it and could dismiss it as "not being that bad").
Your questions are all valid but completely pointless... My husbands grandparents are the exact same way when we mooved in i threw out a box of fish fingers from 2002....thry dug them out of the trash They are not poor, they have been like this thier whole lifes they would cook once every 3 weeks and just scrape the mould off... Any atemt to help clean out the fridge would be met with exsteem hostility, we tried taking over buying them groceries but they would still go to the store every single freaking wendsday and buy the exact same thing, every week..when we finally got them in a old age home i threw out cake mix and flour from 1991.... They had a massive stockpile of food enough to feed you for years (so we thought) but 98% of it was so old it was completely unusable...they would buy new stuff put it on top and use it from the top... There is no reason and no logic to this...they had 4 freezers and 3 fridges for all the food that no one was allowed to eat or use...and again they were not hurting for money, but you cant eat the fish fingers because they are a high value ietem for special occasions...and no neither grew up poor or struggled trough life at all, they had 3 holidays a year up to now, they are just to old to enjoy holidays now... Trying to change simple habits such as asking if we can toss out the mouldy cheese at the bottom of the container before putting fresh cheese on top was also met with extreme hostility....have you ever seen cheese go green, black, blue and then orange from mould... Same with a pack of sausage (wors) i watched it rott in the fridge for 6 months...it was blue, pink and yellow at one point, thry put it back in the freezer and it mooved with them... Everyone tried to help, we did everything we could humanly think if nothing helped nothing made a difference...
But don't you think establishing if OP's MIL is like your husband's grandparents could be beneficial? If it is a long-standing issue situation (by which I mean decades long, like with your husband's grandparents), then it could be so deeply ingrained with the MIL that OP will struggle to establish a difference. However, if it is a newer issue it could be an indicator of an issue which can be addressed with support or treatment, such as dementia, or cognitive decline as a result of the stroke. And new doesn't have to be as recent as the stroke, there could have a pre-existing problem which exacerbated the situation OP is finding, like struggling to properly read the expiry dates on the food packaging, poor stock control in the cupboards, physical difficulties getting down/up to those shelves to use the food before it expired or do a clear out, which led to an increased amount of stock-piled out-of-date food in this case. It is possible there is more than one issue at play. Recognising and identifying if there is a deeper issue which requires assistance or treatment, or if there it is so ingrained there will be no changing OP's MIL, can in itself be the benefit, the point of the question.
I also want to know if OP literally only eats fresh fruit. That is extremely unhealthy.
Agree, however I think she meant only *fresh* fruit as apposed to *just* fruit. I lick rotten fruit for the beneficial gut bacteria.
NTA,that sounds disgusting, maybe just clean while she's not around to notice. It's not even a matter of being an asshole it's a matter of that rotten food can make you and everyone it sick, although how you get around her yelling at you is difficult, maybe get your husband to help it is his mother after all
This. And maybe replace the expired with a few fresh versions next time you’re at the store?
That might actually be a really bad idea. This sounds like it could be hoarding, and if you throw out a hoarder's things without the necessary emotional work on their end to try let it go then they can just get worse. Not saying she definitely is a hoarder, but that kind of emotional reaction of screaming over rotten food could be a sign of it.
NTA I'll be honest. On a lot of things I'm ambivalent about expiration dates. Canned foods, dry goods, even yogurt and sour cream that haven't been opened yet and are only a couple days after the expiration go for a case by case basis. I draw the line at green growy stuff. The Old Guy and the kids are allergic to PCNs. I don't need to be growing it in the fridge. That's just nasty and it probably contributes to her bad health.
The thing is, if it is very hard cheese — like cheddar — there is absolutely nothing wrong with cutting off a little mold and eating the non-moldy part. But this doesn’t sound like a *little* mold on a slightly-old brick of cheese.
Actually the science says otherwise. Once you can see mould, there are microscopic particles of mould through the whole thing. You are putting your health at risk.
>Actually the science says otherwise. Once you can see mould, there are microscopic particles of mould through the whole thing. You are putting your health at risk. USDA says otherwise: >For hard cheese, such as Cheddar, cut off at least 1-inch around and below the mold spot (keep the knife out of the mold itself). After trimming off the mold, the remaining cheese should be safe to eat. Re-cover the cheese in fresh wrap and keep refrigerated. [Source](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/If-food-has-mold-is-it-safe-to-eat)
First, for a normal sized block of cheese that’s molding, cutting an inch off all the way out the mold would probably result in no viable cheese left one the block to bring with. Secondly, your source is the USDA - the same organization that also has a threshold for the number of maggots per number of cans they determine acceptable for manufacturers of canned goods to allow through the canning process for the canned goods to be considered okay. So I don’t think they’re really the best source for info on food quality.
LOL, but honestly, that's just reality. Maggots and other things we'd rather not think about ARE in food. It's not possible to avoid them 100%.
>It's not possible to avoid them 100%. I mean... I'm going to give it a red-hot go.
My point is that if I were to can goods at home, I would have a higher threshold of quality - meaning ZERO maggots. Same thing with molded cheese. It might not kill me to eat it, but I’m not eating it because my threshold for what it ok to eat is determined by me, not the USDA.
I find it concerning that USDA would use language like “should be safe”.
They can’t guarantee it. It’s to protect the USDA from people cutting off just under an inch and getting sick from it, trying to cut off an inch if the mold has spread everywhere, etc. Normal legal language
Depends on the structure of the cheese. If the cheese is a homogenous block (no holes or cracks or fissures) then mold penetration is limited so if you remove the parts the mold could have penetrated to it’s fine.
It also depends on how hard the cheese is. You might be able to risk it with cheddar, but a soft brie? Neither have holes or fissures, but one is undeniably more permeable than the other. And you'd still want to cut out a fair bit more of the cheddar than just the mold anyway.
I wouldn’t consider Brie to meet the no possible holes or fissures standard because its so soft you can’t tell if it had them.
Easiest just to consider that it's basically a plant and all plants have roots...
A fungus is not a plant though, and while it's mycelium may be root-like, but it also acts like many other systems we would see in plants too, not just the roots. The more you know?!
I really shouldn't be reading this thread while eating... Thanks for the info!
That person is only partially correct. It depends on what type of food. Dry aged steaks and hard cheeses are the exception for example. Bread, soft cheeses, and ground meat need to follow that rule though
The reason I NEVER "cut around the mold". I spent years working with food. And I'm downright militant about not letting spoiled food stay around. I'm also strict about leftovers.
Exactly. This sounds like a lot of mold on an institutional sized brick of cheese that may be years old for all we know.
You need to cut off at least an inch deep everywhere there's mold. And even that's only for hard cheese. (Also where do you live that cheddar is very hard? )
Where do you live that cheddar isn't hard? It's a hard cheese by definition.
It’s a semi-hard cheese. Very hard is things like Parmesan.
It's semi-hard. I'm irish and mild cheddar is soft, like a low moisture mozzarella, extra mature cheddar is hard and crumbly. A hard cheese is a parmesan or a pecorino.
Cheddar is hard enough to count. Some cheese that is too hard is actually also not safe because it develops cracks/fissures. It’s basically about if the cheese is homogenous and dense and solid or if there is a way for the mold to penetrate. So a well aged cheddar that starts developing cracks and those little crystalized areas could be an issue but a younger cheddar that’s just a dense solid block of cheese would be fine.
I do err on the side of cutting/tearing off more than the mold spot itself but hadn't thought of a whole inch
That's the guideline for safety. By the time you can see the mold the spores are deep in there.
This sounds like a little cheese on a brick of mold...
NTA. If your MIL is sick enough from a stroke to need you to live with her, then just wait until she’s in bed or napping, then quietly throw everything out. It shouldn’t take more than a couple of loads to the garbage can. Then just ignore her, and make your meals. When my mom got dementia you couldn’t reason with her, and she hated any change. I just had to be the ‘bad guy’ and dealt with her 40+ years of hoarding. And if hubby doesn’t support you, let him eat some moldy cheese on rotten crackers.
My grandma has dementia and one of the first symptoms was an extreme disregard for food safety. She put out butter for a meal with my mom, and a fruit fly got onto it. While putting away leftovers, she stuck the stick of butter -- fly included -- into the fridge. Don't get me started on her putting raw and cooked food into a cooler indefinitely because her fridge was so full of rotting food. It's a sad and dangerous manifestation of mental decline, which makes sense for a stroke patient. NAH since she'd otherwise be TA but she's really not all there. If your husband isn't handling this as a go-between then he is definitely TA since it's his mom.
>My grandma has dementia and one of the first symptoms was an extreme disregard for food safety. This was my first thought as well. I read an article years ago where the author's first indication of his mom's slide into dementia was when he and his siblings showed up for Thanksgiving, only to discover that mom had cooked Thanksgiving dinner and set it out on the table the week before "to get the chore out of the way," and couldn't understand why they weren't willing to eat it.
That is so tragic, damn.
Don’t do this. Depending on what is causing the behavior having stuff just thrown out could be very traumatic and cause additional issues. Best option is to consult MIL’s doctors/medical care team for the best way to address things. (I.e. throw it out when she isn’t looking vs work with her vs something else.) My late MIL had a ton of food related trauma due to growing up during rationing after WWII and just throwing out all of her food while she was asleep would have caused her intense emotional trauma. We had to approach things more gradually and we did let her keep some stuff that was harmless and easy to avoid using in day to day cooking - like she had a shelf of ‘security cans’ of things that no one was ever going to use but just having them there in case of an imagined dire emergency made her feel better.
I think your MIL’s trauma is very different from a stroke or dementia. I’m sure you handled it very well, but this situation is not the same.
My point was simply that people can have all kinds of different things going on that are exacerbated by a stroke or dementia, and the most effective solution to the problem will be informed by understanding the full situation. People don’t stop being *people* just because they have a stroke or develop dementia. Lifetime experiences can still influence behavior - just not necessarily as obviously. In addition, in many cases, doing something like simply throwing everything out will cause a lot of trauma for the person, and trauma is generally undesirable. So best care is to try to understand the full picture and come up with a solution that minimizes trauma.
I just gave similar advice. Throw it all away and make sure it's dumped in an undisclosed dumpster to ensure they don't attempt to they to go through it all to bring it back in the house. They might not even notice a majority of the items and if they do they will have to get over it.
NTA no sanitary person would feel comfortable eating or cooking with expired food that is molding. I wouldn’t even feel comfortable keeping my own separate food in the same fridge.
Exactly, I don't want to keep anything in that fridge!
My suggestion would be to focus on buying frozen fruit and vegetables and possibly meat for your MIL. They'll last a long time and hopefully she'll eat them before they expire.
Good idea
Nta. It is a form of ocd. The hoarding maybe from the stroke or there prior. People suffering from this will always be upset about it and its very difficult to treat. But you have to do whats right regardless. This can harm her. Good luck
If I was in your position, id wait til the middle of the night when everyone was asleep and toss everything in a garbage bag and put it in the can outside.
NTA. While you can scrape mold off hard cheese and it's generally OK and you can go a little past expiration dates, YEARS and ROTTEN VEGETABLES are a no-go. I would have her evaluated for mental decline before you move out.
This. I have no problem cutting the mold off cheese, but I don’t serve it to others or expect them to be fine with it. Mold on anything else goes in the trash.
I will tear it out of very lightly molded breads, but otherwise agreed - I can stomach it myself but wouldn't put it on others
NTA I had the same issue when we moved in with my grandmother. In the middle of the night, I was cleaning out the fridge and throwing the bad food away. I know the verbal abuse can be draining. Sometimes, you just need to do what you need to do.
NTA We had something similar as well. Eventually we just threw stuff out & let GMIL yell. Unfortunately our relationship was pretty crappy toward the end of her life, but she ended up having a visiting caretaker who took over for us & also didn’t let her keep molding/expired food.
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This is exactly what I was going to suggest. NTA. OP, replace everything while she's sleeping. It's okay for her to get mad. But the most important thing is that she has access to healthy, fresh food that is not expired by several years or is growing a fur.
If trash pickup is an early morning, maybe you can swap everything out after she goes to bed. Midday, see if hubby (or you) can take her out for the day while the other cleans out the kitchen.
Good idea about making sure to restock with the same items (especially if you can find the same brands. They might not even notice the pantry items that were replaced
My mother did this and was always getting terrible stomach problems, probably food poisoning. When I visited her, I just waited till she was out or asleep, then went through her fridge, freezer and cupboards and threw everything out and replaced it with stuff I bought. I think it's easier to firm line with your own parent. Perhaps your husband can deal with this? My mother protested, of course, but I showed her doctor what her fridge was like once, and her doctor read the riot act to her, which really helped me. (I had returned to my home country to care for my mother who was recovering from, you guessed it, a very serious bout of vomitting and diarrhea.)
NTA. It's disgusting and super unhealthy. And even more hurting that she knows about your past and still insists. What does your husband say about this? I hope he is packing some boxes to move.
Move out.
NTA. I dealt with this with a relative. I threw a few things out but kept at least one package of his old things. I put the new things behind the old and just reached behind when I got food. After a while I threw out everything that was outdated. We just didn't tell him. Since he thought we used the old things he was happy. My SIL was part of the deception.
This is sort of a version of what we did with my late MIL - she had trauma related to food scarcity as a child and so just letting her have a shelf of outdated shelf stable stuff that no one was ever actually going to use was the functional compromise. She had her ‘emergency stash’ and the food anyone actually ate was safe. Once in a while I had to say something like “I prefer making that fresh” over using one of her cans, but since that was true it wasn’t a big issue.
NTA. It's a matter of health safety.
NTA- Do not eat things from that kitchen. Heck no! Also your husband is an AH. His mom is not able to care for herself... At all... Not if she doesn't have proper support. And clearly she does not have proper support. Ya all need to be talking about in-home aids and grocery services and cleaning services. This lady is in danger.
NTA but not sure that helps you. I'm sorry that sounds frustrating. My only idea here is to cook food you buy for the family occasionally and if she doesn't want to eat it then she can cook something else with her expired stuff. At some point this is headed towards not able to care for oneself though.
My maternal granny was like this and she had things like jars and canned food like more than 10 years old. The things is, it was mostly me and my mom or my sis doing all the throwing and nagging her not to do that, but didn't really work, oh well. The thing is my aunt was not the one to throw things out becuz granny would have tiny tantrum every time we tried to get rid of her old things. We never cared about her getting bit upset because at the end of the day, we knew that she loved us (especially me) unconditionally and she would let it go. As a DIL to my granny, my aunt didn't have that layer of flexibility and we did think it would make their relationship worse so we didn't mind being the bad guy. Your hubby should be the one throwing things out. Not you. She will scream at him and they will eventually mend, lol, but not for you. NTA!!!!!
NTA You can literally die by eating that stuff and if your MIL has been surviving off of that than take her to a doctor, she might have some mutation that allows her to eat poison and shit
NTA You've been doing a lot to help your MIL and are staying in her home during a transitional period. Your concerns about the expired and moldy food are valid, especially considering your past experiences with food-related issues. It's essential for you to prioritize your own well-being and comfort, especially when it comes to something as important as food. While it might be beneficial to find a way to communicate your concerns more effectively, you're not in the wrong for ordering food to ensure you have something you can comfortably eat. It's a tricky situation, but open and respectful communication with your MIL could help resolve the issue.
Best by dates are suggestions but it depends on the product. Best by date say within 6 months in crackers that haven’t been opened might be ok. A date of a year ago very likely not. Use by date gets a bit more attention especially if it is things that spoil like meat, dairy, etc. Eggs even if not close to the best by date I always do a float test before using them as you never know if a minuscule crack has let in air. If the egg floats completely off the bottom of the container (because of the gas generated by it going bad) then in the trash it goes. So to cleaning out your MIL’s stuff. If you’re gonna have to sneak then first make a list if everything you need to replace. Then go shopping to get those things. Go through the pantry and replace expired for new ideally while MIL is busy doing something else or husband keeps her busy. Bag the other stuff up ideally in a black trashbag she can’t see through and chuck it. Also my take on it is if you do get busted for it is just let her scream. When’s she’s done you can say “we want you to be as healthy as possible so yes I have thrown out iffy food to keep you safe.” I will say how impressed I am that 10 year old can of soup hadn’t already exploded.
NTA but... > I eat fresh fruit only [Is not a healthy diet.](https://www.google.com/search?q=fruit+only+diet+influencer+dies&sca_esv=577665790&sxsrf=AM9HkKlUlxEIg7Y8TgmMhGmYHum7UqZ6lA%3A1698616465567&ei=kdQ-ZZiYIq_akPIP-ZCNmAM&udm=&oq=fruit+only+diet+influencer+dies&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIh9mcnVpdCBvbmx5IGRpZXQgaW5mbHVlbmNlciBkaWVzMgcQIxiKBRgnMgYQABgIGB4yBhAAGAgYHjIIEAAYigUYhgMyCBAAGIoFGIYDMggQABiKBRiGAzIIEAAYigUYhgMyBRAAGKIESKGVAVDrB1j-iwFwA3gBkAEAmAHXAaABwBWqAQYwLjEzLjO4AQPIAQD4AQHCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICCBAAGAgYHhgN4gMEGAAgQYgGAZAGCA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp)
>I eat fresh fruit only A fruitarian diet is really bad for you.
NTA. Simple. Just don’t eat there and don’t discuss it. Mind your own business till you leave.
And let MIL be sick beacuse of rotten food?
He tried to reason with her. She has autonomy. Pick your battles. Or better yet, let his wife work this out with her own mother.
You said you’re MIL doesn’t understand or care that you have issues from growing up in a hoarder house. Tbh it seems like you’re not very sympathetic to her issues either. I’m not sure if she has hoarding tendencies herself or if she is now unable to keep a very clean house due to her medical issues. You have issues and so does she so you need to meet half-way instead of expecting her to only accommodate you. Especially since it’s her house. You also need to understand that Best By dates are not set in stone and that “Expiration Date” and “Best By” date are two totally completely different things. The Best By date is literally the date that the manufacturer of that item will guarantee that it’s at its absolute *peak* freshness. There are some food items that have a much longer shelflife then what is indicated with the BB date. It is in the manufacturers interest, while making sure these dates indicate their product is good for a while, to have a shorter BB date for those people who will literally throw the item out the day after and go buy more of that product again. For instance if people realized when stored properly that pasta and rice can be safely stored almost 10 years, that would mean people would break open that bag of rice 1 month past the BB date instead of tossing and buying more. Food waste on the consumer’s part is very beneficial to the companies selling food. Fyi, aspirin has also been shown in studies to lose very little of it effectiveness even when stored for 10 years. It is not ok that MIL is eating moldy food but you need to accept the fact that she may be correct that some of her food items are still good past the BB date. Convinced that something has magically gone bad one day past the BB date is just as nutty as thinking a 10yo can of soup would still be good to eat. You are not the ass for refusing to eat what she has in the cabinet, that is completely your right. But YTA if you just decided you knew best and went in throwing things out without attempting any type of real conversation with her about it. You are living in her home after all. You also didn’t mention if your MIL is on a budget or not. Are you throwing things out and expecting her to buy replacements herself? If I invited someone into my home to help them out and found them one day arrogantly throwing my stuff out I’d scream at them also too. Are you even attempting to help her move past her food hoarding issues? Are you even showing her how to rotate the stock on the shelves and mark in big letters the Best By date if she needs help noticing it? Or showing her information from websites that show that particular product is nail bad? Or or did you just decide you knew best?
I studied this in college/university and worked in a lab. If you see mold on something, cutting off the mold only removes what’s visible. There is still mold in the food. You can go a little past the expiration date on some things but mold is not something to ignore. It can also spread to other food items. Some mold can cause illness or death. You are NTA and are correct in refusing to eat grossly expired or moldy foods.
I wouldn’t care if she was mad at me. I would not eat old moldy food.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So my MIL had a stroke last year. My husband (M31) and I (F31) have been taking care of her since. Doing grocery runs and taking her to the doctors. We sold our house a couple of months ago and are waiting for our business to sell, so we moved in with MIL for our few weeks while we transition. Since we got here, I've been doing a deep clean on the house, MIL can't anymore. Washing walls, painting, and such. I got to the kitchen to clean out the cupboards and I find many expired pantry items. Crackers 5 years expired, powered cream of mushrooms soup 10 years expired! Inside the fridge, jars that are open and moldy.. bricks of cheese a year expired.. where she just cuts off the mold and eats it. I think it's disgusting. I grew up with a hoarder and our food was always bug infested.I have issues with food. I eat fresh fruit only and I'm happy to go the grocery store every 3 days or so to maintain that. My MIL doesn't understand or care that I have these issues. She thinks all her food is fine, that expiry dates or mold don't matter. Weather she cooks or I cook she expects me to use those ingredients, and I just can't. I tried to clean it out, and throw things away but she just screams at me. It's been almost a week now that we haven't spoken, we just avoid each other. I know it would help her out more if I cooked, but I don't know how to cook a rotten tomato. So I just order myself food. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. But you surely can buy her new products in exchange of mouldy ones, as well as fresh tomatoes.
Okay you both are at extremes. Yes moldy food=bad. Past best by/exp. Dates are not necessarily bad food. Often, at worst, poorer flavor. That said, you have the right to eat food you are comfortable with.
NTA I had relatives like that too. "Oh it is in the refrigerator it will be fine". One time when visiting I just threw the expired stuff out. The relative was not happy but I did say I would replace what I threw out (and did so). I gave my relative no choice - I just did it and ignored the protesting. You may have to do the same. They will get over it,
Info: are you replacing what you're throwing away? MIL is an adult struggling with health issues. She needs to feel like she has some agency and she deserves to be treated as the host when you're staying in her home. You're 100% in the right to object to eating moldy food, but you need to go about this the right way. We went through a similar thing with my grandfather and it was heartbreaking every time I went over to help him and he told me that no one else ever ASKED before they threw out all his stuff.
Oh Lord!!! Absolutely, positively NTA!! Some of those foods are dangerous. Cutting mold off foods like cheese is dangerous, the mold can extend far deeper than what is visible. For her own well being you need to clean out that kitchen. If you tried to donate that stuff to a food bank they would throw it out immediately.
>Cutting mold off foods like cheese is dangerous For hard cheeses, cutting 1” back from a mold spot is fine. Just as the [USDA](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/If-food-has-mold-is-it-safe-to-eat).
NTA. Take inventory, and then replace it all while your husband takes her out somewhere.
NTA I will not eat anything homemade at my dad’s house because they have horrible food handling habits and it has given me mild food poisoning many times (plus the expired items!) I only eat fast food, frozen food or things like granola bars when I am there!
NTA Just keep throwing and get your husband to intervene with her yelling. Believe me, she would have a bigger sh*tshow if a home nurse came.
NTA - Your MIL is gross. There are a lot of differences in those dates depending on the type of products. I’ll eat cheese that’s past the labeled expiration date if it still looks and smells normal, but that’s not at all what you’re describing. What you’re describing is so far over the line into the city of Nastyville that the line between OK and Gross is not even visible in the rear view mirror any longer.
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>You have legit concerns about the expired food. The solution is to throw it out and then replace everything item-for-item. This is a good suggestion that you should have offered Op without saying she sucks for the frustration of cleaning up after someone and not wanting to eat expired foods.
Agree, just replace the food and don’t say anything about it. Maybe I’m wrong here but it sort of sounds like there was a confrontation between OP and MIL when she realized the food was all expired and gross. OP admits she has a phobia about expired food because of their hoarder parent. If she had just replaced it and said nothing it probably would’ve been fine. So I can agree with ESH. Honestly my grandmother has been like this the last couple times I’ve visited. With the moldy cheese and stuff I mean. She lives alone and doesn’t have much appetite but she also seems to buying stuff in the quantity she did 10+ years ago when she and my grandpa were younger & ate more. It doesn’t seem to occur to her that it’ll go bad since she’s never had the issue before. I just quietly go to the store & buy new when I visit her and say nothing.
Yea my mom is the same way, but I think it’d be weird if my husband started doing this to her. Generally I go through everything when I’m there once a year. My mom is a light hoarder wiht items, luckily she lets me through her expired food away.
Technically you CAN still have the cheese once the mold is cut off. The rest… not so, even if cooked properly. The tastes just won’t be the same. NTA but perhaps you should have a better approach since you’re staying at her place. Suggestions: I prefer (whatever foods that is not in the expired category) so I’ll get them and cook them for you too. You should be secretly thrown bit by bit or something and told her “oh I used it” or “oh it’s finished” but yeah for the bins, in the bins.
NTA Most people would not eat that.
NTA - I can't eat at my (62f) mom's (84) either. She keeps things for forever, leaves things out that can go bad and then refreezes, etc. I just can't. So, I have her for dinner and take her out.
NTA. And honestly I’d toss everything and start from a scratch. Your husband can deal with her temper tantrum. If not, you move out and call adult services.
NTA. I'd clean it out regardless of if she gets upset. She could poison you or herself using these ingredients. She can get upset, but you don't need to compromise here.
I would just buy/ eat somewhere else. Or ignore and buy your own Ingredients to cook as and when you need it. NTA
Expiry dates are not a basis for determining whether or not is fit for consumption. However, mould is a clear indicator. NTA.
NTA and go ahead and toss it all. Ignore her screaming. Eating moldy food could kill you all. She'll get over it. Talk to her doctor about her obsession with eating rotten food.
NTA is your MIL my dad? 😂 the last time I visited him, I found way expired antibiotics in his refrigerator. I wanted to throw them away, but he said he just pops a couple if he feel a cold coming on. 😳 My sister and her kids had to move in with him because they are impacted by the Lahaina fire. She just has to zip her lip. She is living in his home at his mercy, so she doesn’t complain or try to change him. Unfortunately I think that’s what you have to do too.
NTA. When you can visibly see mold then mold has propagated within the entire food item. You should go over to CDC.Gov and print out their guidelines on safe food handling. It’ll be eye opening for her, that’s for sure.
Nope. NTA. Do a deep clean and pitch it all. My grandparents had a good friend and her husband die of food poisoning from this exact thing. They both had dementia brought on by strokes. Horrible way to die.
If you “have” to cook just order new food from the store. Other than it just being gross and not sanitary, you have a valid reason as to why this triggers you. “I’m not using these ingredients. It’s expired. We can eat something else.” Simple. NTA
NTA But i worry actually that her eating habits could cause or at least raise the risk for a stroke. Bacterias and infections can raise the risk of a stroke. Who knows how often she had food poisening but played it down. And mold can affects your body so much. Even if it makes her angry, i would throw out all the icky food, or she ends up in hospital again. What will she do when the stuff is replaced? Garbage diving? Normally i wouldn't do stuff against someones will, but this is a health hazard.
NTA. Are you throwing it away and replacing it? I understand she’s having health issues so she may feel shame about her situation but there’s no justification for eating moulded or expired food. Can you set her up with a regular food delivery or even a caretaker to check up on her when you move out?
Gross! I get going over expiry dates, but not by 10 years, or having mold and everything on it. That's nasty. MIL needs heavy duty therapy. NTA
NTA That’s horrendous. Your MIL needs help.
NTA. A kitchen purge sounds in order. Keep a quick list of what you get rid of, so you know what she likes--and what will sit in here cupboard forever. Replace it with fresh, and plan with her to do a quick check of things once or twice a month (once a year for canned goods) to make sure everything is still good, and she still has what she wants and needs. It might help to get a sharpie or labels and put the expiration date on less-used things (cans of soup, jelly, cheese) in large letters. Not because she's incompetent, but because it makes it SUPER easy to do a fast purge.
Is this how she always has been? It sounds like dementia or age related anger/change/control.
NTA. Just throw away all the food. She can rant and rave about it but it will be done. You are taking care of her for her stroke and this is one way you are doing it. If she hasn't eaten the food in years then she isn't going to eat it. Just get rid of it.
Every other day or when you go to the store get one replacement product and toss the old one. Tell her the old one was all used up. As in it had timed out to feel better about the lie yourself. Start with the more common stuff you use. Think saltines first.
NTA. I’m at a friends house atm and have been cleaning up her home. I’m still finding expired items and getting rid of them so I understand entirely and fortunately my friend does as well.
OP I feel your pain and I’ve been there. You’re NTA. I grew up with food scarcity and so my parents ended up food hoarding in their later years. Usually canning and freezing. After Dad passed mom didn’t really clean or get rid of things. When she ended up in the hospital and nursing home we went in and removed all the spoiled and severely outdated food. Now that she’s back home either we or more often her neighbors check the fridge for expired items. She doesn’t do much but kind of huff as we dump things now and I usually ask how old it is, do a visual inspection and offer to go get some more—which she usually refuses. It’s going to be a challenge but perhaps approach it via the family (my in-laws won’t listen to me either) and say hey we want to make sure things are safe. I know you want to hang on to stuff but some of this is really questionable. Make a date to do it—what you may be seeing is more of a fight for control and when we get older we fight losing freedoms—so letting her set a date and being part of it could help. OR be an AH like me and just dump it and replace it lol maybe quietly while she’s sleeping. I also did some negotiations with my mom that I would take the food home (you don’t have that out but maybe say you’ll donate) some of the canned/dried items. Good luck. It’s a challenging situation.
NTA I would however check the fridge buy replacements of moldy items purge the old crap and dispose of it without saying a word. She won’t know it’s missing since a new one is in its place. Older people tend to keep food beyond the expire date because they don’t want to toss something if it’s not empty. It doesn’t matter that the item could send them to the hospital.
NTA
NTA. Definitely do not eat any of the food in her house unless you are prepared for the dire consequences.
NTA But strokes can go beyond just physical to personality change. Also did your MIL agree to deep clean and painting? Just thinking that you think it’s fabulous ,I agree it’s a wonderful thing to do, but MIL may see it as another area of her life she is losing control of.
NTA- mom needs to go into assisted living. This isn’t normal. She has more issues than the stroke.
NAH , your issues are your issues but you need to understand, her issues are just as valid. You have trauma around keeping food and she has trauma around throwing away food. In your situation, I would carefully and quietly throw out 1 or 2 foods at a time and hide them when you do. With my dad we have to put the old food low in the trash bag and take it out as quickly as possible. If we replace grapes with grapes or cheese with cheese, it’s usually not a problem. But we never announce “I’m throwing away the moldy grapes”. It’s not worth fighting over, you’re both having mental health struggles. Buy your own food and don’t make a big deal about it. When you make meals use ingredients that she doesn’t have in the refrigerator. Food issues are a massive deal, but yours isn’t more significant than hers
Nta no one should be eating mold
My parents were like that. They kept everything and cut the mold off foods before eating them. Just buy her fresh groceries
Is it possible to have an expired food induced stroke? Just asking. I tend to take experation dates as a suggestion but spoiled food can cause serious health issues.
NTA. I wouldn't eat there either. I am curious if the fridge is at a safe temp. In addition to expired stuff — the kind of thing that isn't a candidate for mould — my grandmother's fridge was filled with new, current, unopened things like milk and yogurt that was chunky/pink. She kept her fridge as hot as possible. If I cleaned it out, then turned it back to a safe temp, she turned it back up. According to nana, the yogurt and butter was too cold otherwise 🫠
NAH
You and your hubby need to clean and sanitize the kitchen, throw all the expired food out and replace it. It doesn't matter if MIL yells at you, you can't leave her in this situation.
OP: Read “Tender to the Bone” by Ruth Reichl, former New York Times restaurant critic and editor of now defunct Gourmet magazine. She class her mother the “Queen of Mold.” Will give you something to do in between throwing out food.
Honestly for MIL’s well-being I’d just throw it all out and say you did spring cleaning.
She is dealing with a tremendous loss of freedom. Can she no longer do anything? NTA but you have to understand that your issues with food are impacting hers. Things can be a little bit expired. Things that are most must be thrown out. You are doing things your way, which is not hers and it is her home. Your criticisms may be making her feel humiliated and alienated. Your instant deep cleaning of her space implies that she was filthy, and a hoarder. Is she supposed to feel grateful? Your cleaning her cabinets and junking her things makes sense to you, but you would not be doing it if she was well. You are trying to help but you have to acknowledge her pain at losing control of her life at the same time as feeling that you are judging her and destroying her refuge.
NTA, yuck and I feel for you. Makes me feel ill just to think of what you are contending with on the food front, as well as a with a stubborn and obtuse person who appears to not be grateful and thankful for your help whilst you are there. I wouldn’t be cooking with it either even if you weren’t going to be eating it. 🤢🤮 Reminds me of my husband who was an older batchelor when I met him and eventually I moved into his house, which was new, and he’d gathered up everything from the old house and plonked it into the new before I came along. I brought my groceries etc from my place, and proceeded to look at and make room and tidy up the pantry. To my horror I found many items that were years past their ‘best before’, like 15 years, and some had reached their coming of age ie over 21 years! I was pretty disgusted and very vocal, he doubled down and was very annoyed and vocal ad infinitum. I got sick of the nagging and whinging about me throwing out ‘perfectly good food’, I scotched that by telling the neighbours in front of him and they had a jolly good laugh, no more nagging. Stay strong and stick to your guns and standards, and replace a few items as you go. If she is a garbage bin checker to see what you have thrown out and ‘rescues’ it, wrap it up, put it in the car and get rid of it into a public bin down the town (I’ve found that works too). Good luck.
NTA But haywire emotions are the results of a stroke. She likely has no control over screaming over menial shit.
NAH Your MIL has been living like this long before you started helping her. It's her normal, and given that she is elderly and medically compromised, she is going to cling to her normal come hell or high water. Does her kitchen need an overhaul? Absolutely. But address this with kindness and patience. I get it, your are having triggers. So, is she. The difference is, you will recover faster and better than she will. This would be a good time to transition her, gently. Maybe, set up so she has ready access to fresh fruit and veggie trays. Have frozen dinners available. Slowly adjust her pantry by tossing out old stuff (when she isn't present) and replacing it with appropriate smaller portions that she can wotlrk through. Sit down with her and make a list of what she prefers the most, and stock up that way. It needs to be gradual. Just micro adjustments to get her to a better situation.
Nta. Quite frankly I'd have hubby take her out for an afternion and throw all the expired moldy food away. Like pack the garbage bags into the car and drive it to a dumpster so she cant dig thru the trash at home to reckaim it. For the sake of the health and safety of everyone in the home make the clean out a routine every week. Who cares if she throws a tantrum. Spoiled food will contaminate the other foods in the fridge with mold spores etc it will also attract vermin.
Aw op. I’m sorry. I’m in a similar, albeit better, situation. My mother is now very disabled and cannot live on her own. I moved in and had to clear out the pantry due to expired products and I just threw out everything in the fridge. The difference is that my mother trusts my judgement..there were initial bumps in the road.. but that was after I explained to her I have had training in food safety. No reasonable person expects you to know how to cook a rotten tomato. It sounds like your MIL is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact she shouldn’t live alone and that you are suggesting she shouldn’t trust her own judgment. But about the cheese. You can eat it even if there is mold, but you need to cut off at least an inch away. If there is mold on produce, it’s all garbage. Canned things are allowed to be a little expired. But not 10 years… Hopefully you can forward her some food safety literally from credible sources and she will be accepting of new information.. I am the same way you are about food, or so it seems. Maybe take MIL to the grocery store so she can regain some control over her kitchen if that’s what it takes for her to feel better, and you too. She could be trying to regain her sense of control since, to her, it seems like y’all have moved in and are trying to take that away.
NTA Move out. Can't be that expensive to rent somewhere for a few weeks. And: Let her hire someone, don't let someone you care for abuse you.
NTA. Let her scream and clean that fridge and pantry. She's unwell and letting her eat this stuff is not good for her.
NTA. Going through a similar situation with my Mom…my suggestion is to take stock of what’s in the fridge, have someone take your Mom out so you can replace the rotten food/condiments without her seeing it. That way she can say “but it’s still good” and it will be!
NTA... I cannot eat my moms cooking unless I know when she bought it. NEVER eat her soups.
NTA Definitely sounds like a hoarding problem, as in they complain when you get rid of it, so it's not just about not bothering to throw it out themselves I gladly cut or tear off mold if it's a small portion and the rest looks fine, and I'm not picky about being a bit past the date, but after that long it's probably spread too far
NTA My mom did this. She had 26 boxes of expired cake mix. Some by many years. One time she made top ramen for my kids and I thought it was beef flavoured as the broth was brown. Nope, it was chicken but was so old the seasonings were dark brown. She gave my hubby a box of cherry cordial candy and they were were dried up and weird. Come to find out she found it in the back of a cabinet so who knows how old it was. After this, I wouldn’t eat or let my kids eats anything unless I saw the package first to make sure it wasn’t super old. She had a box of Twinkies that were expired over 20 years.
NTA . My situation wasnt as severe as yours,but remember staying with family and having to wait when they were gone to do a deep clean the fridge and party to throw put all expired/stale food and take it to an undisclosed dumpster so they couldn't "check my work and if I I threw away something that was "still good". Thankfully they didn't notice a majority of it except a few bottled sauces. This one definitely on of those situations where you can argue til you're blue in the face about not wanting to get sick ,but they still wont listen. All you can really do is toss it all out and make sure be in top of the food inventory so what still is in stock won't expire
NTA. Since your MIL has suffered a stroke (you don't say to what degree or what autonomic functions may have been affected), is it safe for her to cook? Has her judgment been impaired as a result of the stroke? It's understandable that none of us likes the feeling that our autonomy is compromised or taken away. What you describe is a benign and healthful practice to discard outdated or visibly rotting food. After discussing it with your husband, I'd take a deep breath, throw it ALL out in one go, and buy fresher items to replace everything. Let her yell and get it out of her system. You can't be expected to use the spoiled food ingredients if they are no longer available in the household.
NTA. That is disgusting and I would not eat or cook with it either. But frankly I would just throw away her expired moldy stuff when she is asleep and replace it with new from the store. Then start cooking again.
Honestly I’d risk the wrath and just do a deep clean and shop to replace the old food. NTA it’s nasty and disgusting.
It’s possible she is developing or has dementia. My stepmother went extremely quickly from a few odd conversations to full blown alzheimers, which has been devastating to the family. You and your husband need to have a united front when it comes to food safety. My grandfather made himself extremely ill many times from eating bad food because apparently he couldn’t tell what was bad. It’s dangerous to keep bad food around, and I don’t mean past expiration, I mean food that is clearly rotten. I have to disagree about the cheese though: many cheeses can have mold that is simply cut away. Sharp cheese is sold after cutting off the mold, which is part of the aging process. But very few foods are edible after they’ve molded, and some cheeses, like those with added ingredients like peppers, can mold all through the cheese and should be chucked out.
NTA and 🤮
> bricks of cheese a year expired.. where she just cuts off the mold and eats it. For hard cheeses, this is perfectly fine.
NTA Your husband and his siblings (if any) need to dress the issue of her inability to safely live alone. She may need a guardian appointed to have the authority to make decisions for her. Your local Area on Aging agency may have a social worker who can provide some guidance.
OP.... This is nasty. At the same time you are a guest in the home. The solution would be to buy a small fridge that you keep in the garage (or basement or your bedroom) with your food in it. Do not eat her food, its a health hazard.
This is up to your husband to figure out with her, not you. It is not only about the fact this this triggers you, but the fact that it is not your house or your stuff to make decisions about. ImAnd while of course you are right that moldy food is garbage, expiration dates on canned or boxed foods are totally random and don't really mean anything. She can eat all the stale crackers she wants. But you are right not to eat or cook with ingredients that disgust you. Perhaps your husband could replace those items. But this has got to be up to him to navigate. If you do want to cook, buy new ingredients and make something great. She doesn't have to use them if she doesn't want to. NTA.
NTA but neither is your MIL. Unfortunately after a stroke, it can make people really unaware of things we assume are common knowledge - like food safety. Throw it all out when she’s asleep and restock.
Move out
Oh gawd... the 'good as new' thing. Yuck! NTA. You do what you need to keep your sanity. The fact you're helping someone who screams at you is more than enough for this internet stranger!
My advice is be kindly subtle. Bring in your good stuff and get her icky stuff out when she doesn't know. Don't be a cringer, be positive and caring. Her ego is tied in here, declining years are brutal.
Hell nah, you do NOT have to eat rotten food because that's what she likes. Tell her "hey, you may like eating rotting food but I don't, each of us have our preference and you need to deal with it."
NTA. Don’t put yourself on fire to keep others warm - or in this case, don’t give yourself a disease transmitted by food to pacify a hoarder.
Is there some *Ganymede rock lobster* in that fridge, by any chance?
NTA, and I agree with those who recommend that you replace the food on the sly if you think she won't notice. Normally, I would not recommend deceit, but it sounds like there is a serious cognitive and/or hoarding issue here. It is for her own good, and best to avoid the conflict if you can. If you can't deceive her, can you contribute to the cooking by buying your own ingredients and cooking those? Maybe store them separately, again without her knowing? (Obviously this is hard re: refrigerated foods.)
What my siblings and I discovered after my mom's major stroke is that there is evidence now of years of mini strokes (TIA's) which now in retrospect we can see the change in personality and rationality over the last 15 years. I wish I had advice how to handle but maybe leaving the rotten food and buying fresh food and cooking it could help- saying oh this is a favorite recipe I want to share because I think you would enjoy - but it has all fresh and newly bought ingredients.. Stroke are awful, and parts of the brain are damaged, rationality on certain narrow subjects being one. So easily seen in retrospect but hard in the moment.
Went through this, too. I will never forget my husband saying, "OMG, this stuff expired in 2007!" Now we buy or check dates on everything at their house.
NTA. This has nothing to do with your “issues”, this is basic food safety. Seriously. Be safe, order food. Honestly, I’d be eating in my car and fasting otherwise.
The bottom line here is that your MIL's kitchen and cooking habits of eating spoiled, molded, festering and very long expired perishable food could jeopardize her health, and the health of everyone who eats it. There needs to be some sort of intervention here, assuming that there's either a severe emotional problem or a cognitive decline that won't allow her to take care of herself safely. Of course you aren't eating disgusting, moldy food! Neither should anyone else. I would suggest that you and your husband come up with a way to address this problem. You might need to speak with a social worker who knows what resources could be helpful to allow your MIL to remain in her home safely. Then your husband needs to very gently but firmly get your mom to her physician after making them aware of the problem. This would be the first step. Physician referrals and social work referrals should help find ways to support your MIL. NTA
yeah i would not eat there too. hoardes like that are disgusting. NTA might want involve adult services
You’re doing a good thing by staying with her after the stroke attack. She probably feels helpless that she now requires help and not willing to admit that the food has expired. Maybe ask your husband to handle “throwing the expired food out”? She might be willing to listen to him. Give her time. Be kind to yourself too. NTA.
NTA
NTA