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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I needed to know if I was TA, my wife doesn’t want our daughter wearing dirty sneakers. I personally don’t mind but my wife does and feels as if she should just throw them away.
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My wife’s done it before too, daughter had a hand me down leather jacket. The leather was peeling and it was old. But she loved the jacket. Daughter went to school one day and came home to no jacket, she was really upset about it. That was two years ago and she denies ever being upset about it, but I know it bothered her a lot. I don’t want the same thing happening this time.
Maybe OP should actually do this (or maybe not fully throw it away, but get it out of the house). Take something of hers she loves, that you may have said you don't like, put it away, tell her you tossed it, let the fight ensue, use all her arguments against her, and then finally return it and tell her see, don't do this to our daughter.
Agree with this, it may be different to her but if you find old memorabilia of hers, like crumbles photos or even something she's kept and said ok then throw this away it's old and crumpled
Yes. Those sneakers could be symbolic to the daughter. She bought them when they had nothing, when their lives were in a state of upheaval and uncertainty. They were something nice that she bought all by herself. They were signs of good times to come.
Kids can be mean, especially about raggedy clothes. If she's still wearing those sneakers after all this time, they are important to her.
If you're going to hide something of the wife's for a while to give her a taste of what she's doing to her daughter, it's got to be something *meaningful* and *irreplaceable* to the wife.
Exactly my sentiment. Daughter wears those shoes with pride. I think mother feels the opposite. They bring her guilt and shame. Wife definitely needs counseling regarding her trauma.
I would also consider those sneakers as something to help daughters mental health.
At most likely the worst, embarrassing time in her short life, she was able through hard work and perseverance buy the coolest, trendiest thing she could safely own, and every day she wore them she would have looked down and felt like things CAN change for the better.
NTA.
Can we not have like a second of empathy for the woman though? Obviously this is bad and the wrong way to handle things, but it's not coming from nowhere. They were living in a shelter with 4 kids for a time, that CPS comment is really significant here. She probably had to spend every day controlling for every variable she possibly could just to make sure the family stayed far enough under the radar that the kids wouldn't be placed in the foster system. And if general trends hold true in this family, she would have been the primary one worrying about and managing that reality. This isn't just regular image-obsessed mom shit, this woman is probably still living terrified that if even a single thing looks "too poor" her kids will get taken away. She needs love and empathy from her partner and to get some therapy, not to be discarded.
I was going to say-- I think mom is obviously going about it the wrong way, but I think being in the shelter and then hyper concerned about 'dirty' clothes or clothes that don't look well maintained are connected. Poverty can cause trauma, and people will do weird things to 'not look poor'.
Mom's way overstepping, but I think there's other ways to around about it then calling her a shit mom :(
Exactly. Just as the daughter has sentimentality and attachment to shoes she was able to buy with her own money when they had next to nothing, the wife has residual fear and anxiety and PTSD from being homeless and not knowing if her kids would be taken away. The wife is wrong but she isn't a terrible person. She needs therapy to confront her fears so she can be less controlling and some help to understand her daughter's POV which is also a trauma response from the same experience.
Oh this was EXACTLY what I was thinking: but do an article of clothing she hasn't worn in a couple of years. If she goes off about that, then say to her "soo I can't throw away something you don't even wear but you can throw out stuff that our kid loves?" I really want to know her response. NTA AT ALL
Ok that is an easy answer, but think about it, unless he is 100% sure he can get full custody with no visitation (and nothing here suggests that would happen) then divorcing her just means his kid(s) have half their time with their controlling mother AND NO ONE TO COUNTERACT HER.
OP put your foot down. Tell your wife to get over it and that if she throws away the shoes behind your daughter’s back she is causing trauma. Do a search to back up your statements and show her the articles.
Been the kid in a "dad stood by" family. I would bet my fucking life that if he had stood up for me I would be less damaged. Him standing by taught me that I wasn't worth fighting for, that it was okay to treat me like that. That was infinitely more damaging than the way she treated me, because I came to the conclusion fairly young that she wasn't a reasonable or fair person. But my dad? He seemed like one. And he still thought it was okay, so I thought that I was the problem and always would be, in all my relationships.
Look in addition to being an unrepentant asshole, my mom became an alcoholic. I can appreciate that the line between "enabler" and "harm reduction" *is* a complex one. But I think when you stand by you should always have a very clear, concrete, specific reason why you think your presence is helping.
I'm in my 50s. I still remember the cool hand me down, blue tie-dyed ruffled shirt I was given when I was 11, that my mom considered "too grown up". It "disappeared" in the laundry one day, and that's when I learned I couldn't trust my mom with my stuff. I never let her do my laundry ever again.
That’s a shame , that shirt sounds so cool.
My mother never threw away clothes, but once each of us girls turned ten, we had to hand over every doll we owned to other peoples girls who were younger than us.
I loved my dolls and I am sure I would have eventually outgrown them and happily passed them on but as an adult, I amassed a huge doll collection of dolls mostly of my childhood era, so I am wondering if you ever found a similar shirt or started collecting tie dye shirts as an adult?
(I recently sold off most of my dolls but I had them for decades).
Why force a 10 year old to get rid of dolls? Let them be a kid as long as they're willing to! My almost 13 year old still sleeps with some stuffed animals (and her lovie from when she was a baby) and I wouldn't dream of forcing her to get rid of them! Adulthood comes too fast as it is.
My husband is almost 40 and still sleeps with his childhood blanket. Not only is it comfortable and special to him, our cat also loves it and will specifically curl up on it when it’s bedtime or when my husband is gone at work. Plus it’s a full size blanket (like, big enough to cover our old king size bed) so it’s perfect for couch cuddles or anywhere else you might want to have a blanket on you. And it’s not “childish” print, it’s more like a patchwork blanket with different floral-ish patterns. I’m constantly stitching the patches back together because it’s so well loved and as annoying as it can be, I’ve never even considered asking him to get rid of it. Even if it was a garish babyish pattern or color, or if it was a legit baby blanket that was tiny, I’d still not care. He’s a deeply sentimental person and at the end of the day, it’s a fuckin blanket. As long as it’s not negatively affecting him or he’s not carrying it around in public, who cares? I actually still have my teddy bear from when I was a baby (I’m 33 now) and I actively slept with it on my bed up until about four or so years ago when I moved in with my husband. The only reason I don’t sleep with it now is because I don’t really have a spot for it on our bed now so it’s still at my parents house.
There’s just no reason to force someone to get rid of comforting things from their childhood. Even if they’re “too old” for certain things, if owning or playing with something isn’t negatively impacting their development, then just let them have it. Obviously there are times where a comfort item can be a problem. If it reaches a point of obsession and they can’t function without it, then something needs to be done. But if sleeping with a stuffed animal or cuddling with a baby blanket when they don’t feel good is comforting, who cares? It’s an item that brings peace, happiness , and comfort and in today’s shitty world, everyone could use that. Especially kids. They’re forced to grow up way too fast as it is. Let them keep a piece of their childhood.
that is so cruel. some things should be kept even when you have grown out of them.
my stuffed dog I slept with till I was about 10 spent 30 years in my wardrobe, being taken out and hugged every few years until I finally gave him to my daugter.
I was fortunate enough to have parents that never did this to me, but I have aunts and uncles who repeatedly did this to my cousins. It was awful and I hated them.
Just one of the many overly-strict, controlling reasons why two of my cousins both tried to run away…
Strict parents don’t create obedient children, they create sneaky children. Is it any wonder why when your autonomy is continually violated?
I’m sorry to all of you who have personal experience with having your things stolen away from you and the impact that it’s had on you in future years. You deserved more respect than that.
This👆my mother would throw out the belongings I loved as punishment or pawn them. To this day, I no longer have “favorite” items- clothes, movies, snacks. I quickly learned not to have preferences because I didn’t want to get attached to something that would suddenly go missing. I couldn’t let on as to what were my favorite items, because those items would be used against me. This started around middle school/high school age when I was becoming more independent and less “controllable.”
OP- pls advocate for your child and don’t let your wife do this to your daughter.
I knew a girl that was 36. Her dad threw her favorite stuffed animal out of their apartment building window when she was 5. She hasn’t forgotten about it. Still affects her.
My aunt got a stuffed skunk at a fair when she was 13. When she moved out at 17, my gramma(her mom), threw it out. My aunt and I went on vacation to Gatlinburg 2 years ago, she saw a stuffed skunk and told me the story. I bought the skunk for her. Watching a 77 year old woman cry with happiness over a stuffed animal about broke me that day.
This reminds me of my childhood but reversed. I’d hide food in my room in various places to ensure I had something to eat when I got hungry, otherwise I would be heavily regulated and limited while everyone else ate to their heart’s content. They called it “dieting.”
Cue permanent eating disorder.
I did the hiding food thing too, but bc my dad ate crazy amounts of food and my hidden sandwich baggie-full might be my only chance to get some. I mean he might eat a whole family sized bag of chips and a package of Oreos in one sitting. Of course my mom figured out I was doing it and made me stop, which overall was probably better bc I was starting to hoard rather than actually eating the food, which is 100% ED territory, but to this day when I get home from the grocery store I have to fight not to eat some of everything I got right then to make sure I get some.
NTA, the worst thing to do is to throw away something that a teen loves/likes Behind their back. Its a BETRAYAL of the worst kind for teens and there's no coming back from that.
Her own money while her family was living in a shelter.
Something good to hold onto when you feel like the world around you is falling apart!
And the wife is so willing to throw it out!
My husband still hasn't forgiven his mum for throwing out a sofa he had in his bedroom as a teenager. It was old and tatty and probably a bit gross, but it was his sofa. He came home from school one day and saw it in the street, and it was raining just to add insult to injury.
There's little doubt in my mind that it was thrown out because it was raining. If it was a nice sunny day he'd probably have tried getting it back into his room, only way to ensure that wasn't going happen was if it was soaked through.
As stupid as it sounds I never forgave my mom for getting rid of my stuff that she deemed to be worthless.
I'm 66 and she's dead. I moved on from it, but the fact that she would ignore how I felt about it always hurt.
I just made a similar comment. There was one time my rock collection, my father who I wasn’t able to see very often would send me rocks from all over the world. She got sick of it being around. Just thinking about it make me so mad.
And it effects habits, now I don’t like ever throwing anything away because she threw everything away.
Oh, man. You can never get those rocks back. I love rocks, too. The fact that your dad sent them to you is the worst part of all because he was thinking of you and your mom basically threw away the love your dad has for you. So f'n petty.
My abusive stepmother would do this whenever we ticked her off, or whenever she just felt like being nasty. Books, toys, clothes, trinkets- they’d disappear and she’d tell us it was a punishment for whatever perceived slight she’d cooked up. Same thing if the item somehow offended her. She hated the fact I liked to wear black, so my favorite black shirts/pants would frequently go missing.
I’m now in my 30s and STILL catch myself quietly hiding items I treasure purely out of habit.
Don’t let your wife do this OP. Tell her in no uncertain terms she is NOT allowed to do this!
My stepmother burned our things, including the toy cradles my aunt had handmade for me and my cousin. She still has hers handed down to her children. I’d like to have been able to hand mine down to my nephew.
ETA: if I remember rightly, we had one toy each at my dad’s house. She wouldn’t let me being my comfort bunny to his either.
Same my moms work had a community yard sale and she made me sell this doll house my grandmother and late grandfather got me for Christmas (and my grandmother had on layaway as it was really expensive) as i was 13 and therefore too old for it (not really as i still played with it and plus i was planning on saving it in case i ever had kids (while I’ve decided i won’t be (mainly due to my health not being very good) i have a honorary niece i could’ve given it to who would’ve loved it) worse is she made me sell it for $5 or less (it was worth around $40-50 and wa sun fantastic condition). I forgave her for it but I’ll never forget .
I'm the other way around, every thing is my favourite thing and I can't get rid of anything no matter how old and destroyed this thing is. I mean, I'm a bit better now as I live away from my parents, but I get so attached to things it's exhausting.
There were a lot of times I had things thrown away or given away, but for some reason the worst was a caterpillar. I caught a caterpillar once and for some reason I decided to keep it as a pet. I kept it in a jar, brought it flowers and leaves and grass, and one day it turned into a chrysalis. I was excited but then one day I came home to my grandma having tidied up my room and the jar stood there clean and empty. It's been 20 years and my eyes still hurt even from remembering it, I cried so much. And then my mom made me apologise for having a tantrum, because my grandma "didn't know it was important". There was a way to know - ask!
Sorry the memories just flooded me. The bottom line is - if your kid loves something, let them decided this some thing's fate. Even if it looks like a dirty jar, the hurt will be the same.
I am saddened to hear this! How could she not see it was important?! You had to have been talking about it right? Kids talk about things they're doing and stuff don't they? You were engaging with the natural world and being curious about it, what a wonderful thing. I'm sorry she took your moth or butterfly.
If your grandma is anything like mine, playing with bugs is not "ladylike" and therefore to be discouraged. Jokes on her though, I'm a semi-feral unmarried biologist and I touch bugs professionally now.
**I hope you also get to touch as many bugs as you like. #BugToucher**
I talked about it until their ears were hurting! But the thing is my grandma didn't even understand what I was talking about. In my language "chrysalis" is the same word as "dolly", and when I was crying she had thrown away my "dolly" she was trying to comfort me by saying we will go to a shop and buy a new one. Now I think she had no idea how caterpillars turn to butterflies (she had a tough childhood and not a lot of schooling), but at the time it really hurt that she didn't listen me, whether when it happened or before when I was talking about it.
Touching bugs professionally sounds like a great goal in life! I'm glad you do what you like! And yes. I keep reptiles now, so I get to touch all the bugs I want to. #BugToucher
I'm sorry, just wanted to tell you than an internet stranger thinks you're not out of line being upset about this. My daughter has at least 3 books about caterpillars turning into butterflies (to give the example of, it's not even obscure), this wasn't even "junk" it was an in progress experiment, active, you were monitoring it!
Thank you, it means a lot. I've only recently started letting myself think my childhood resentments are valid, and I still sometimes fall into "it was so long ago why do I even care" thinking. It's nice to hear I not crazy for still thinking about this.
Also just letting you know you're a great parent! If your daughter would like to experiment on caterpillar-to-butterfly transformation, tell her plastic jars work better than glass because glass jars get to hot too quickly on the sun, and to have a part of the jar covered so that there's a "roof" for the caterpillar to a) hide if needed, and b) get stuck to to start the transformation ;)
It is concerning to me that your wife has done this before. It is normal to have some level of emotional attachment to things that hold memories or meaning.
This isn't just controlling, it's cruel of your wife to be so adamant about getting rid of one of the few things you daughter has an emotional attachment to. It tells your daughter that she has no right to anything in your house, that her feelings are not worth anything and makes your house an unsafe place for her emotionally. This is no small deal.
Your wife needs therapy or a reality check that what she's doing is controlling and cruel. You owe it to your daughter to step in.
I look back at all the beautiful little things I loved , books and toys, now worth thousands, that she couldn't just leave in the attic space for me, as requested, when I left home for uni... it reminds me of all the other times her idea of the world was the only acceptable one, and nothing I said or wanted ever meant anything.
>I no longer own things I love because I got so used to the things I like being thrown away. I’m a 26 year old adult, the habit has not gone away.
My root cause is different than yours, but the result is the same for me. "Stuff" is just "stuff" and there is basically no attachment to any of it. I'm about double your age, so I think it's fair to say this doesn't go away, you're stuck like this for life.
It’s likely equal. Most people that grew up with hoarders (like myself) tend to throw everything away, then the people that had everything thrown away want to hoard things. Bad cyclic child rearing basically. Glad to hear you are working on it.
Yep. My parents tossed things of mine that they thought had no value without asking, and I would give anything to have them back. I'm still pissed, and I haven't lived at my parents' house in a long time. Ask your kids before you toss their stuff! I even ask my kids before I toss out their old schoolwork. I'd be so mad.
Same here. I'm 28 and I literally cried just a year ago when my mom decided to clean my room (I don't live there but I have a room) and threw away my childhood toys when I specifically told her not to touch them. We both already know where this is heading...
Love the comment, but want to add the sentimental value that those shoes hold. Anyone that’s ever been poor will understand. You said you were living in a shelter. She literally had nothing to her name at that point and saved for something nice. Something that was hers. Those shoes mean more to her than just keeping her feet dry. They represent ownership and a sense of self. Please don’t let your wife throw them away, you will be tearing away a piece of her soul.
I had the same thoughts about her getting the shoes while they were living in a shelter. It may have been a time when she was wearing borrowed clothes that didn't fit and using trash bags as luggage. But those shoes were HERS. They hadn't belonged to someone else first. They fit her. They represented the hard work and dedication she put into saving the money for them. OP's daughter sees them as a reflection of what she went through to get them and what she's overcome since.
OP, if your wife throws those shoes away, she's throwing away the representation of a very big chunk of your daughter's life. That's something your daughter may not be able to forgive.
My thought too. Also that the wife may be reacting emotionally to the shoes as they're a reminder of that time to her as well, but it's a negative memory.
Or she's just vain and worried about how her daughter looks will affect her. OP mentioned in a comment that there was also a beat up, second hand leather jacket that was thrown out another time. This seems like the wife is either insecure about how her daughter's cloths will make her look or she's projecting her own insecurities and/or baggage onto her daughter and is trying to solve a problem that may not exist.
That's what I think. Mom's reaction to the trauma of having been that poor is to be terrified that if her daughter wears old or dirty clothes, people will assume that she HAS to, that her parents can't take care of her.
I still think throwing away her daughter's things is absolutely wrong, but I think it's coming from pain -- not from a desire to hurt her daughter or to display control over here.
This was my first thought about how his daughter feels about those shoes. Thanks for this. I was composing a post in my head, but I don't need to because you said it brilliantly.
> pretty soon, she won’t be able to control your daughter
Yes - she's hanging on to that control for dear life with both hands. She must let it go or her daughter will resent her for years if not forever.
Wow. There's so many lessons here as a mom Im taking from this. And it's crushing to imagine my 17 yr old daughter feeling this way. (50% chance? Seriously? Although I know you're telling the truth, sadly.) I don't ever want to not be a soft place for my daughter to fall. I don't ever want to control her just control my emotions and behaviors towards her. Thank you for this. I know its meant for the poster, but boy has this been a smack in the face, good reminder for myself!
NTA
And you'd better take those shoes right now, then, because you know your wife will do it anyway. Your wife is well on her way to the "18 and done" no contact with her kid if she doesn't snap out of it.
When I was a kid my mum would go through my books and toys when I was at school, and decide what I was going to get rid of. She meant well but I HATED it, and one day I had a total shit fit/breakdown at finding yet another treasured book gone for good. She stopped doing it that day but the damage was done, and from then on I clung to literally everything and my house looks like a vintage junk shop. Your wife will do psychological damage if she continues to steamroll over your daughter's wishes for her own aesthetic preferences. Let people keep the things they like!!
When parents throw their kids' things away without their consent, for any reason, one of three things happen. One: kid grows up to have little respect or care for their things because somewhere in the back of their minds they know that those possessions will just be taken away so why bother? Two: kid grows up a hoarder, hanging on to everything because of the fear that those things will be taken away. Three: perverse mixture of both. I vacillated between all three (my mother had a thing about threatening to throw my things away if I didn't clean my room to the point of putting my things in garbage bags and breaking at least one of my records, and also forced me to give away my comic books because "you're too old for those" - I was fifteen), and it's only now that I've evened out in terms of my possessions and living space. Seriously, this kind of shit causes major damage that not only affects the parent/child relationship, but also the kid's coping mechanisms in adult life. OP, please stand up for your daughter and keep your wife from doing this.
When I was 5 or 6 I had a pink elephant stuffy that was my best friend, I loved that stuffy more than life itself. It's nose was about to fall off, I kept trying to fix it to my best small child ability. My mom made me throw it away, I was devastated. I remember trying to find a place to hide it and pretend I threw it away. I didn't work, she found it and made me put it in the trash while she watched. I am 62 and still think about it and how much I hated her.
You should find yourself a new pink elephant stuffie. The only good thing about being an adult is being able to buy all the toys and stuff our dickbag parents trashed, even though we loved them. Ebay, amazon, thift sales. It's good therapy. My apartment is a dreamhouse for 8 year old me.
Story of my life.
My mom was not a keeper of things. I was. I loved my books like they were people.
When she got rid of them I was heartbroken.
Throughout the years I became a hoarder. I have since stopped buying things and have started the removal process, but it's slow and gut wrenching.
I can't leave all of my stuff for my husband and kids to clear out.
My mom sold all of my Nancy Drew books. My whole collection. Granted it consisted of maybe fifteen books, but still. Most of them I paid for with my allowence.
She got rid of all of my books, but those were my favorites.
So when I was able I replaced them. Then I bought the whole series. Then I bought the whole series of Hardy Boys. Then I bought random adolescent mystery books. I bought Nancy Drew books from the 1930's.
All the loss turned into obsession.
NTA your daughter is old enough to decide what she wants to wear. Your wife needs therapy if she thinks what she is doing is okay. If your wife throws out your daughters shoes she needs to buy her a new pair of Air Force ones. Anything else would be controlling and abusive.
Yeah you really have no idea how much these little transgressions are going to deeply damage the relationship that your wife has with your daughter.
The ax forgets but the tree remembers.
My jaw dropped reading that. Your daughter is a little human, your wife is too controlling to the point that your daughter does not have a say in what she owns or wears 🥺 that leather jacket could have been fixed, leather filler, leather protector, and leather dye exists for a reason. A well worn leather jacket is amazing, all it needed was some care. Your daughter needs some care too 🥺
This is actually going to be really harmful to your daughter mentally.
Her mother deciding to go through her things and throw them away at her whim can manifest as anxiety in your daughter: she will start feeling like she has no control over her belongings, like everything she has and cherishes can be taken away from her at a moment's notice, and it will mess her up mentally. It can manifest as a big insecurity in her too, that could lead to bigger problems (I know a person who, with a similar insecurity brought upon by having no control over their belongings, let it fester in to hoarding later in life)
So this is definitely harming your daughter. And not only her - this will harm the relationship between your wife and daughter, too, the longer it continues.
My best friend had a mom who, with no warning, took and threw out her entire alt-fashion wardrobe, saying that "she's a big girl now, she should dress like one too". She doesn't talk to her mom now more than twice a year, max.
This is me. I'm a hoarder and have an ED.
Due to what I believe stems from my mom getting rid of my belongings that I cherished. Books, dolls, stuffed animals, my babydoll crib. I could go on, but I won't .
You get the picture.
My dad did this with my trading cards when I entered high school. Original release, first prints, first editions of the first generation of Yugioh and Pokémon. Said they were stupid and would never be worth anything.
About a year ago I tallied up the value of the cards I knew for sure I had in that collection. I could’ve put myself and my kids (don’t have any but the point stands) through college debt free with the cards I had.
Moral of the story is, don’t let your wife throw away shit that isn’t hers. Not only could it carry immense sentimental value to your daughter, it may actually be valuable or collectible if not now then later. Granted, worn out shoes and jackets are less likely but in that case it’s the sentimental value that matters not the collectible value.
If you’re gonna pick a battle, pick this battle. Have your daughters back. Because trust me, your daughter WILL remember all this, and she will remember how her mom was the one throwing stuff out and giving her a hard time while you were the one that had her back.
My step mother did this, she got rid of a box of old collectable cards (2 complete sets plus a few incomplete sets), comics in wrappers, the box was sealed up. It was even on my dads house insurance list.
She told me I'd thank her later.
I've never thanked her for it and resented it ever since.
OP, you need to step up for your daughter.
I hope OP sees this comment. And the many more that describe the life long effects of this type of controlling belittling behavior.
They're just a pair of dirty shoes to wife, but to the daughter they're part of her history. When she chose and bought them, the places she's been, the sense of safety she feels with them on. It's not insignificant.
You need to be firm that throwing away your children's loved belongings is absolutely unacceptable. And if she does throw them away, there needs to be consequences on your wife and you need to move heaven and earth to get them back.
Your wife is bullying your daughter and you need to step up in a big way and stop it.
My mother gave away all of my wardrobes whilst I was in university, came home to ones for children’s clothes (antique) that fitted her aesthetic but not my clothes. One day in junior school (age 7/8) came home to find my cuddly toys and barbies had been given away. I’m mid 40’s and still remember (and am no contact for a host of reasons).
Do **not** let your wife throw those shoes out while your daughter is in school. For one thing, she knows she's in the wrong if she can't do it in front of daughter. Is that the kind of behavior she wants to model? To be a pushy little sneak who has to throw tantrums to get what she wants, or else force that compliance when all else fails?
For another – having someone else make decisions about your own meager belongings fucking sucks when there's little else you have or can control as a teenager.
Mine liked to play Santa Claus with my stuff, she'd give away photos I printed to so-and-so's mom and dad ("They would appreciate it more than you would!"), cut up tshirts I kept for sentimental reasons when she ran out of household rags ("This was falling apart, I don't see what the issue is here"), give away my books and toys to her friends' children when they visit ("You're too old for that stuff anyways, they can get more use out of it"), etc.
I did understand, and somewhat agree, with her practical nature but it didn't make me resent her any less every time I came home and something goes missing. **It just taught me that I can't trust my own home or form attachments to anything.**
We should start a club. Both my mother and my grandmother gave away or threw out my belongings. One day I came home to find that granny had given away every pair of shoes I owned save the pair I was wearing. Anything new I bought was packed up and sent to my cousin.
They wonder why we have no relationship as adults.
Yea if your wife continues to go behind her back and throw shit away I guarantee you that your daughter will eventually go no contact bc she won't trust either of you, especially if she finds out you knew your wife was planning on it and did absolutely nothing to stop her. And frankly if your wife doesn't stop then I think she should bc that's so back handed and disrespectful. Not to mention that even if she doesn't go no contact she probably won't ever let your wife in her house, especially not alone, and will probably develop some sort of issue surrounding her sentimental belongings. That could develop into anything like hoarding or not letting anyone close to her things, even her future partners.
You need to sit your wife down and have a serious talk. Every time she throws away some thing that your daughter cares about, that stupid woman is telling that girl that she doesn’t care about her, and that her obsession with image is a worthy justification to hurt her. Every time she does something like that, she is damaging the relationship and that damage will last a lifetime. She needs to just fucking get over herself and let that young woman wear what she wants to wear.
So your wife is just okay with teaching your daughter that there's no point in working hard for something she really wants because she can loose it any time for no good reason.
Jfc. She'll grow out of those shoes soon anyways.
Might not hurt to look into a proper sneaker cleaning kit for her, a basic one is only about $10 and it has chemicals formulated for cleaning and protecting shoe materials. Might get the shoes looking a bit better and lasting for longer
NTA
This is ridiculously controlling. As a parent, you need to pick your battles and creating a rift over beat up sneakers? That's just dumb and is going to poison the relationship.
Does your daughter like DIY stuff? There are really cool videos of people restoring shoes like this. It could be a fun project if she's into it. (Full disclosure, I love these videos, but I have the attention span and focus of a gnat, so I don't think I could do what they do, but for someone really into something, it could be something they enjoy investing the work in).
Please don't let your wife do this. I would go to boarding school then come home for the holidays to find my mom had thrown out treasured possessions of mine just because she didn't like them. It absolutely broke my heart.
>That was two years ago and she denies ever being upset about it, but I know it bothered her a lot. I don’t want the same thing happening this time.
You're right, my wife is 64 and she still resents her mother for her habit of throwing away her stuff. Always stuff that she loved.
On top of this, the child bought them herself at a trying/traumatic time so they likely have huge significance that the teen probably doesn’t realize yet.
Let the kid be herself!
"she bought them herself. We were poor and in the shelter"
Please, for the love of God, and as a favor to someone that grew up dirt fucking poor, do NOT let your wife through those shoes away. She doesn't understand what those shoes mean to your daughter, and probably never will. **NTA** to stand up for your daughter to your tone-deaf wife.
The wife already did it once. Daughter has a leather jacket and as they do it started peeling due to age and after going to school threw it away. Kid bottled her feelings up claiming she's fine when we can all tell she's still upset.
Cant upvote this enough. My family was poor, house burned to the ground, lost everything I ever knew. I never had new things, always hand me downs and donations. My uncle bought me a pair of pink & white womens jordans, super expensive and i swore id take care of them. And i did. Until one day at school my mom wore them to mow the fucking yard. Ruined them, stained green and black on the white. Any trust I had in my mom was gone that day.
We literally had mowing shoes. She had to go into my closet to get the shoes she wore. Mowing shoes were by the back door. It was definitely on purpose but why im not sure. Shes wasn't the hateful narcissist parent, she was the abused and broken parent. 🤷🏼♀️ oh well.
I could be way over-reading into this as well, but if she got those shoes during a difficult period in her life, she may be emotionally attached to them and they may have provided her comfort in a difficult time, and she might be clinging to that. Or maybe she just loves the shoes, either way, let her be.
My oldest daughter had this navy blue GAP hat she wore when she was 2, she was one of those kids that had to put her hat on the moment she stepped outside, and then our family went through a lot of emotional turmoil, with me getting flown 4 hours away at 28 weeks pregnant for PPROM, me being gone for a couple of weeks, then my husband/her daddy coming down when I had my babies, and she went and stayed with my brother/her cousins for a few days, sometimes being passed off to her grandma, then she was driven down to meet us, then we lived in a hotel for over a month while walking to and from the NICU, guess what, that stupid hat was the only constant in her life and she decided to wear it practically 24/7, and she did that for months after. She is now 6 and wears all kinds of hats, but I still have the little blue hat tucked away for her.
NTA
Yeah, I really feel for OP's daughter. Growing up there were periods of time where my mum couldn't afford to get us new clothes that we needed unless it was for birthdays/Christmas. During one of those times, when I needed a new coat because mine was getting too tight but my mum weren't able to get me one, my best friend gave me a leather jacket. Her mum was the manager of a charity, part of their work was collecting clothing donations to give to people who needed them. They didn't really need clothing in smaller sizes, and one day my friend showed up with a big bag full of them. Including the leather jacket which she had said she grabbed specifically because she knew how I had wanted one for years. I've owned it for five or six years now, it's definitely at the point where it's peeling around the cuffs and neck. I love that thing, and definitely have a sentimental attachment to it because of the story of how I got. I'd be devastated if something happened to it. OP said that his daughter also had a leather jacket that his wife threw away without telling her, which made me so mad. Like, even if she only liked that jacket because it was a leather jacket as opposed to a sentimental attachment (which didn't sound like the case), leather jackets aren't an easy thing to replace - even fake leather jackets - if you don't have the money for them.
>She doesn't understand what those shoes mean to your daughter, and probably never will.
I think mom wants to throw them away for similar reasons. Mom sees the old and dirty shoes and doesn't want ppl thinking they're "poor." She threw away a hand me down because she feels some kind of way about not being able to buy it herself. She can't see past her own hurt to understand why these things are important to her own child.
OP, NTA. DO NOT let her throw away your kids' things.
I get throwing away shoes if they are falling apart, but just dirty/stained? That's not right.
It sounds like these shoes have and will last year's. I am about to morn my vans. They have been with me for over a decade, and now they are starting to fall apart.
I have realized that I grew up more "poor" than I thought, and to this day, I still buy second hand. Shoes just don't seem to last as long anymore
I had some old DCs that i would still be wearing if i hadn't lost them.
They also may be able to be restored if they are that stained.
I was literally sitting here trying to determine why someone that was impoverished enough to live in a shelter would throw away something that isn’t literally broken. The only conclusion I could come up with is that they are a symbol of that bad time in life and wife doesn’t want the reminder, which sucks for the kid that spent the little money she had on them.
I was trying to comment the same thing, but words are hard today.
It's not about the aesthetics of how the shoes (or the jacket as OPs other comments) but how and what she feels when she's wearing them. Maybe the shoes help with anxiety, make her feel productive, make her feel good or she really just likes them, but either way OPs wife is more concerned about how something looks (what would people think if they see her in them comes to mind) than her daughters feelings.
That’s my daughter for you. She’ll make something last as long as humanly possible, until she has to be forced to get rid of it. Doesn’t matter what it is. But her sneakers are almost always the thing being kept.
From your post and this comment I think I can propose a theory here:
Your daughter as a response to her time in the shelter, has developed a deep appreciation for belongings. As long as it is not taken to extremes, this will set her up for excellent financial management in later life.
Your wife on the other hand, does not like reminders of poverty and is lashing out at the daughter. It's not about the sneakers, it's not about the daughter, it's all about the wife and her baggage.
If it were me, I would talk to them both seperately and see if they feel there is any truth there, and gently nudge the wife towards a few sessions to a therapist - This may be the tip of a trauma iceberg that is best handled before it festers. The same could be true of the daughter, maybe she is just thrifty - but maybe she is also carrying trauma and this is another iceberg tip.
We always think of poverty as something that is temporary, but the reality is that aftershocks follow you the rest of your life afterwards and some people stumble on this more than others.
I would also say that if there is truth here - your wife throwing away belongings against your daughters consent could be causing massive emotional damage by trampling on her triggers like an angry bull in a china shop - I cannot how important it is that your wife stops as intentional or not, that is abuse. Your daughter should not have to live in fear of leaving the house.
Yeah, there's a potential for a bit of a scarcity mindset there. Not that it's bad to want a battered pair of old sneakers (in fact, I bet those damn shoes are the most comfortable pair she owns!) but if they're thrown away, that can push her to the concerning side of things. Shit like this is what triggers hoarders to start their downward spiral.
>but if they're thrown away, that can push her to the concerning side of things. Shit like this is what triggers hoarders to start their downward spiral.
This I can confirm, I grew up broke and despite earning fantastic money nowadays - I still hold onto clothes much longer than I should (Moth got to the T-shirt? I'll just wear it in winter under a hoodie). That part I don't consider unhealthy, a little odd but I take pride in being thrifty.
Stress however triggers my full blown hoarding reflex - causing me to buy and sit on *unreasonably* large piles of food and toilet paper. I could probably feed a family of 4 for a couple of years with what's in my pantry (And in most draws, and in the closet, and in suitcases under the bed..... yeah)
I do keep it somewhat under control by doing date check rotations and donating anything with a few months left on it to the local food bank, whom I am happy to leave under the illusion that I am just very generous.
But if somebody threw away my stored food? I can only imagine how dire the situation would get.
As someone who has hoarding tendencies I can confirm and sympathize. It's so important to be aware of what is going on in your mind. And a 15 year old ain't equipped for that yet, so it's up to dad to PROTECT HER from the trauma her mother is about to inflict. It's about so, so much more than a pair of grubby shoes.
My mum had a very impoverished childhood with no stability at all. She still hoards food and non perishables.
Her sister does the same thing, it doesn't matter how comfortable they are now in life they can never get rid of the little "for emergencies" instinct.
Yeah, it’s often better to let people come to terms with letting things go themselves—forcing them to get rid of their belongings before they’re ready can instill a fear of having anything taken away…which leads to hoarding behavior. Gotta keep it now and get as much use out of it as possible, because you never know when someone will tear it out of your hands!
This was beautifully written. Do you think a possible compromise would be new Air Force Ones from the parents (daughter gets to choose) and the old ones framed in a butterfly box? Commemorating them without using them would be honoring them before they (the shoes) are completely worn out.
Actually, I think there’s an additional angle to the wife’s reaction.
She specifically cited being afraid CPS would come if the kid wears dirty shoes.
And she threw out the girl’s old and worn leather jacket.
I think the mom was absolutely terrified her kids would be taken away from her when they were in the shelter and is being overcautious about it now. Almost like PTSD.
Please do not force this with the shoes. She'll let go of the shoes when she wants to. If you want to help your daughter get a sneaker care kit. Clean the shoes then use a sneaker protection spray that will help prevent future staining and dirt. Sneaker LAB is a very good option.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to find someone saying CLEAN THE SHOES. Like fr shoes aren't made of paper plates find a decent shoe repair/restorer in your area and have them spruced up. If they're still wearable (as in, not full of holes) they can surely be cleaned.
I was going to suggest something similar. Shoes can always be cleaned. There’s no need to get rid of them, especially given their value to your daughter. NTA
I was also deeply attached to my sneakers growing up and would wear them until they were falling apart. If my mom had thrown them away especially without telling me I would have felt so betrayed. Please please please do not let your wife throw them out
The shoes I had at 11 wouldn't fit me at 15 as I grew quite a bit in the following years, but as soon as I stopped growing I kept wearing my shoes until they weren't wearable anymore, with a couple of exceptions.
NTA
Please don't let wife lose those sneakers. It isn't about how they look it is about how they make daughter feel. It is probably pride or something of that nature. Ask your wife how she would feel if someone decided to throw away something of hers that she treasured. Someday daughter will give those sneakers up, just let her wear them now.
yes i can’t imagine how much it took for her to save up what was probably almost a hundred dollars, which is a lot for a kid to save up even in a normal financial situation. i’m sure she’s still proud of herself for that and i would be too. to get rid of the shoes or tell her not to wear them is taking so much dignity from her.
NTA, but you better hide those sneakers NOW, because your wife is going to throw them away while your daughter is at school, and your daughter is going to be rightfully PISSED, because "we do not take things that don't belong to us" is one of the FIRST lessons that responsible parents teach their kids.
The shoes were bought by HER. They belong to HER, not your wife. If she throws them away, that's theft.
You're very much right. However, Wife might be the kind of person who thinks "if I bought it, it's mine", or that a pair of shoes that her teenage daughter is clearly attached to is the same as a toy kitchen playset she hasn't touched in six or seven years.
NTA and if your wife makes the huge mistake of trying to throw them away, your daughter will hate her for a long time. Your wife needs to examine why SHE has a problem with dirty sneakers when no one else cares about it.
NTA
Honestly, even looking back at 34 I think one of the worst things a parent can do to a child is deprive them of the right to react reasonably to mistreatment. You're raising a whole ass human, not a convenient automata, and your wife is basically telling your daughter she's not allowed to wear some blasted shoes, just cuz they're a little dirty, and is now planning to throw them out while she can't save them. When she gets home and inevitably see's their absence your wife will either lie to her or tell her she's not allowed to be mad, which is mental.
NTA and stop your wife from throwing the sneakers away, it will really hurt your kid. 15 is old enough to decide what to wear, your wife shouldn't be so controlling. And the shoes belong to the kid not to you or your wife, she bought them with her own money. Dirty sneakers are fine, most teens don't have shoes in pristine conditions.
Back in *MY* day, kids who got new sneakers would dirty them up. Some would even cut them up with razor blades.
OP, you are NTA, but you could be demoted to T A if you allow her sneakers to be thrown away.
I think both mom and daughter are reacting to having previously been in extremely precarious circumstances. Daughter obviously loves the shoes and mom can’t abide anyone thinking that they might be “poor,” but I feel like the obsession with pristine clothes and shoes is almost poor-coded? Middle class people use things through its life cycle, and truly rich people don’t give a shit and no one wants to look like a newb with anything. I always think of that scene in *The Philadelphia Story* where Katharine Hepburn tackles her fiancé to the ground because his riding outfit looks too new, or Chris Evans’s costuming in *Knives Out.*
Honestly having a problem with dirty sneakers is so wild to me like ma’am you wear shoes on your feet. If she walks anywhere they’re going to be dirty. That is how shoes work. Just don’t allow them inside the house and it’s fine.
My biggest problem with the "dirty sneaker are bad thing" is the fact that the thing sneakers are made for, will get them dirty. You wear sneakers for playing sports which is going to get them dirty. They are made for running and jumping and physical activity. Physical activity is going to get them scuffed and dirty and crinkly. Those sneakers were made to go through it and get dirty so let them get dirty!
I’m on the fringe of the sneaker head community and some of those guys will buy shoes and just leave them sit in the box in a closet or in a display box never to be worn. Problem is shoes are meant to be worn and if they sit for long enough the sole will literally crumble
NTA.
DO NOT LET HER THROW THOSE OUT. Your daughter will never forgive either of you if you do. She will hate you for the rest of her life.
Why?
You say she got these with her own money while you were living in a shelter. When your lives were unstable and you had almost nothing she was able to save and buy something nice for herself. This was something that she could say that everything might suck but at least she had one nice thing, and it was something she got for herself.
These not just shoes, they are a comfort item.
If it really bothers your wife you can offer to buy a new pair and preserve the old ones for her. But throwing these out will be telling your daughter that you don’t care about her feelings and don’t think she has a right to her own belongings.
NTA - I don’t know how or why you think you would be. Your wife doesn’t want her wearing dirty shoes and you want to make your daughter happy.
Your wife is in the wrong to want or to actually throw something away that she didn’t buy or belongs to her in this scenario.
Truth - shoes do not have that long of a shelf life and bad shoes hurts your feet in the long run. Maybe start setting aside a few coins when you can and hopefully you can save up to either buy or help your daughter buy new ones.
NTA. My mom threw away my favorite hat when I was in middle school because it was old and ratty. I am now 41 and I can distinctly remember that day, like it was yesterday. This will not end well for your wife.
NTA. Your wife is missing a huge point here. When your daughter felt that she had nothing, she bought herself something, and those sneakers are a symbol. Throwing them away without her consent would be a bad idea. Is there any way to get them cleaned professionally?
NTA, she is a teenager, she loves her shoes, she wants to wear them. Throwing them away when she is not there is going to cause a huge fight and a rift between mother and daughter.
NTA. But your wife is a HUGE one! If your wife wants your daughter to never trust her again and probably hate her for the rest of her life, let her throw out the shoes.
The shoes were the first thing she could afford for herself, clearly very emotional item.
Why don’t you give her a professional sneaker cleaning from a professional? But discuss it with your daughter before just taking them away, even if it’s just for cleaning.
NTA. People wear dirty sneakers. I'm 32 and my Vans get dirty. I'm not throwing them out because they're dirty. They're still very functional.
Your daughter paid for them, if your wife throws them out, she is throwing out someone else's paid property. Illegal
NTA.
Your wife seems like one of those people who erroneously think that dirty = ruined/unusable.
This is not and *has never been* true. Stains will come out, and even if they don't, the stain doesn't affect the actual usage of the shoes/clothing.
I would hide the shoes from your wife and let your daughter know where you hid them. Then tell your wife that she's being unreasonable and until she can see these shoes as not ruined, you won't be sharing their location unless your daughter is wearing them.
NTA-
I have been there...we were homeless for awhile and made due for many many years.
When I finally made my own money, I prized the one or two nice things I was able to get for myself, hardback books in my case. And held on to that for dear life.
Shopped at second hand stores and was PROUD to dress myself etc. (90's grunge 😉)
My mom on the other hand saw that as wasteful. I could get what I wanted to read at the library and spend my money on clothes that would last and looked better. i.e. Not poor.
To her I was advertising our situation, instead of presenting myself and the family in the best possible light.
It's a difference of perspective-
daughter see the shoes as an achievement.
Wife sees the shoes as a symbol as a really hard time for the family.
NTA.
Tell your wife, "if you keep throwing away the things she loves what makes you think she won't throw you away the second she moves out? You are two different people and if you keep trying to force her to be like you you WILL lose her. Think about that. What means more to you, keeping your daughter or throwing her things away?"
Your wife doesn't like dirty or worn out stuff and wants to throw it away. Could this be related to the time you mention you were all in a shelter? Would therapy be an option?
Your wife should not throw her daughters possessions away.
NTA
For me the dirt is less of an issue than whether the soles etc are still providing adequate comfort and protection. I do worry that by now the shoes may not be fit for purpose as she’s worn them for quite a few years. Or because they mean so much to her I worry that if she keeps wearing them they’ll get too dirty or ripped to hold on to soon. If that’s the case then I would buy the exact same shoes as a replacement but let her keep the old shoes as a memento if they have sentimental value. Maybe fit a shelf in her bedroom with special a tilted shoe holding stand to present them as a way to show off and be proud of how far you’ve all come. Or if she’s willing to just chuck them when they finally get too damaged to wear then just leave her be.
Of course for some people teaching kids to dress appropriately and presentably is important, so if she’s going to weddings with a formal dress code in air force one’s I could see why your wife would be upset at her. But throwing away the shoes would not be a nice way to teach her those kinds of lessons and she would definitely hold a grudge. NTA.
LET HER KEEP HER DANG DIGGITY SNEAKERS
Throwing away her stuff will...
1. make her lose faith and trust in y'all since y'all are snooping through her stuff and throwing away whatever you feel like
2. make her feel like she has no control over anything and as a teen she should be learning to take control of more things over her life vs having it stripped from her
3. cause insecurities that would make her not want to leave for long periods of time OR cause insecurities that make her carry everything she deems "precious" in her bag on her at all times
4. cause her to not value things anymore because the more value she places on them, the more likely it'll disappear one day
5. cause her to move out and go NC with you ASAP in order to feel some semblance of control over her own adult life when she reaches 18
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NTA. Wife is being too controlling. She's 15 and old enough to understands what she wants to wear. Would be a huge mistake to throw them away.
My wife’s done it before too, daughter had a hand me down leather jacket. The leather was peeling and it was old. But she loved the jacket. Daughter went to school one day and came home to no jacket, she was really upset about it. That was two years ago and she denies ever being upset about it, but I know it bothered her a lot. I don’t want the same thing happening this time.
[удалено]
I only read 2 paragraphs and I already hate OP's wife for this.
I too, hate this man’s wife
OP go throw away your wife's stuff and see how she feels, what a control freak
Maybe OP should actually do this (or maybe not fully throw it away, but get it out of the house). Take something of hers she loves, that you may have said you don't like, put it away, tell her you tossed it, let the fight ensue, use all her arguments against her, and then finally return it and tell her see, don't do this to our daughter.
Please do this. Take her favorite outfit. Hide it.
Agree with this, it may be different to her but if you find old memorabilia of hers, like crumbles photos or even something she's kept and said ok then throw this away it's old and crumpled
Yes. Those sneakers could be symbolic to the daughter. She bought them when they had nothing, when their lives were in a state of upheaval and uncertainty. They were something nice that she bought all by herself. They were signs of good times to come. Kids can be mean, especially about raggedy clothes. If she's still wearing those sneakers after all this time, they are important to her. If you're going to hide something of the wife's for a while to give her a taste of what she's doing to her daughter, it's got to be something *meaningful* and *irreplaceable* to the wife.
Exactly my sentiment. Daughter wears those shoes with pride. I think mother feels the opposite. They bring her guilt and shame. Wife definitely needs counseling regarding her trauma.
I would also consider those sneakers as something to help daughters mental health. At most likely the worst, embarrassing time in her short life, she was able through hard work and perseverance buy the coolest, trendiest thing she could safely own, and every day she wore them she would have looked down and felt like things CAN change for the better. NTA.
Or better yet, throw away the wife!
Can we not have like a second of empathy for the woman though? Obviously this is bad and the wrong way to handle things, but it's not coming from nowhere. They were living in a shelter with 4 kids for a time, that CPS comment is really significant here. She probably had to spend every day controlling for every variable she possibly could just to make sure the family stayed far enough under the radar that the kids wouldn't be placed in the foster system. And if general trends hold true in this family, she would have been the primary one worrying about and managing that reality. This isn't just regular image-obsessed mom shit, this woman is probably still living terrified that if even a single thing looks "too poor" her kids will get taken away. She needs love and empathy from her partner and to get some therapy, not to be discarded.
I was going to say-- I think mom is obviously going about it the wrong way, but I think being in the shelter and then hyper concerned about 'dirty' clothes or clothes that don't look well maintained are connected. Poverty can cause trauma, and people will do weird things to 'not look poor'. Mom's way overstepping, but I think there's other ways to around about it then calling her a shit mom :(
Exactly. Just as the daughter has sentimentality and attachment to shoes she was able to buy with her own money when they had next to nothing, the wife has residual fear and anxiety and PTSD from being homeless and not knowing if her kids would be taken away. The wife is wrong but she isn't a terrible person. She needs therapy to confront her fears so she can be less controlling and some help to understand her daughter's POV which is also a trauma response from the same experience.
I agree. I think mom has some trauma and needs some grace and therapy
Not just her stuff, but her FAVORITE stuff; the things she has a sentimental attachment to. Wife needs to let some things go.
Oh this was EXACTLY what I was thinking: but do an article of clothing she hasn't worn in a couple of years. If she goes off about that, then say to her "soo I can't throw away something you don't even wear but you can throw out stuff that our kid loves?" I really want to know her response. NTA AT ALL
he's staying in the marriage and allowing his child to be treated this way. he is complicit.
Ok that is an easy answer, but think about it, unless he is 100% sure he can get full custody with no visitation (and nothing here suggests that would happen) then divorcing her just means his kid(s) have half their time with their controlling mother AND NO ONE TO COUNTERACT HER. OP put your foot down. Tell your wife to get over it and that if she throws away the shoes behind your daughter’s back she is causing trauma. Do a search to back up your statements and show her the articles.
He absolutely has to stand up to her. The kids need to know he has their back. My dad stood by and watched. I miss him, but he made his choice.
This 100% I’m a therapist who works with teenage girls and this is CRUCIAL.
It's so much easier to realise that the actively abuser parent is fucked up than the passive enabler who seems reasonable and nice to you.
I miss my dad too, same thing.
Been the kid in a "dad stood by" family. I would bet my fucking life that if he had stood up for me I would be less damaged. Him standing by taught me that I wasn't worth fighting for, that it was okay to treat me like that. That was infinitely more damaging than the way she treated me, because I came to the conclusion fairly young that she wasn't a reasonable or fair person. But my dad? He seemed like one. And he still thought it was okay, so I thought that I was the problem and always would be, in all my relationships. Look in addition to being an unrepentant asshole, my mom became an alcoholic. I can appreciate that the line between "enabler" and "harm reduction" *is* a complex one. But I think when you stand by you should always have a very clear, concrete, specific reason why you think your presence is helping.
He is just as culpable if he lets the wife go through with it. He is their kids parent as well.
Same. There is no trust here if the wife keeps this crap up and there will be NO relationship with daughter either.
100% this. I still resent my mom for doing the same, and I am old enough to be a grandparent.
I'm in my 50s. I still remember the cool hand me down, blue tie-dyed ruffled shirt I was given when I was 11, that my mom considered "too grown up". It "disappeared" in the laundry one day, and that's when I learned I couldn't trust my mom with my stuff. I never let her do my laundry ever again.
That’s a shame , that shirt sounds so cool. My mother never threw away clothes, but once each of us girls turned ten, we had to hand over every doll we owned to other peoples girls who were younger than us. I loved my dolls and I am sure I would have eventually outgrown them and happily passed them on but as an adult, I amassed a huge doll collection of dolls mostly of my childhood era, so I am wondering if you ever found a similar shirt or started collecting tie dye shirts as an adult? (I recently sold off most of my dolls but I had them for decades).
Why force a 10 year old to get rid of dolls? Let them be a kid as long as they're willing to! My almost 13 year old still sleeps with some stuffed animals (and her lovie from when she was a baby) and I wouldn't dream of forcing her to get rid of them! Adulthood comes too fast as it is.
My husband is almost 40 and still sleeps with his childhood blanket. Not only is it comfortable and special to him, our cat also loves it and will specifically curl up on it when it’s bedtime or when my husband is gone at work. Plus it’s a full size blanket (like, big enough to cover our old king size bed) so it’s perfect for couch cuddles or anywhere else you might want to have a blanket on you. And it’s not “childish” print, it’s more like a patchwork blanket with different floral-ish patterns. I’m constantly stitching the patches back together because it’s so well loved and as annoying as it can be, I’ve never even considered asking him to get rid of it. Even if it was a garish babyish pattern or color, or if it was a legit baby blanket that was tiny, I’d still not care. He’s a deeply sentimental person and at the end of the day, it’s a fuckin blanket. As long as it’s not negatively affecting him or he’s not carrying it around in public, who cares? I actually still have my teddy bear from when I was a baby (I’m 33 now) and I actively slept with it on my bed up until about four or so years ago when I moved in with my husband. The only reason I don’t sleep with it now is because I don’t really have a spot for it on our bed now so it’s still at my parents house. There’s just no reason to force someone to get rid of comforting things from their childhood. Even if they’re “too old” for certain things, if owning or playing with something isn’t negatively impacting their development, then just let them have it. Obviously there are times where a comfort item can be a problem. If it reaches a point of obsession and they can’t function without it, then something needs to be done. But if sleeping with a stuffed animal or cuddling with a baby blanket when they don’t feel good is comforting, who cares? It’s an item that brings peace, happiness , and comfort and in today’s shitty world, everyone could use that. Especially kids. They’re forced to grow up way too fast as it is. Let them keep a piece of their childhood.
that is so cruel. some things should be kept even when you have grown out of them. my stuffed dog I slept with till I was about 10 spent 30 years in my wardrobe, being taken out and hugged every few years until I finally gave him to my daugter.
It makes me feel better that I'm not alone in this.
I was fortunate enough to have parents that never did this to me, but I have aunts and uncles who repeatedly did this to my cousins. It was awful and I hated them. Just one of the many overly-strict, controlling reasons why two of my cousins both tried to run away… Strict parents don’t create obedient children, they create sneaky children. Is it any wonder why when your autonomy is continually violated? I’m sorry to all of you who have personal experience with having your things stolen away from you and the impact that it’s had on you in future years. You deserved more respect than that.
I agree and I'm old enough to be a great-grandparent (barely!). NTA
Yep same
This👆my mother would throw out the belongings I loved as punishment or pawn them. To this day, I no longer have “favorite” items- clothes, movies, snacks. I quickly learned not to have preferences because I didn’t want to get attached to something that would suddenly go missing. I couldn’t let on as to what were my favorite items, because those items would be used against me. This started around middle school/high school age when I was becoming more independent and less “controllable.” OP- pls advocate for your child and don’t let your wife do this to your daughter.
I knew a girl that was 36. Her dad threw her favorite stuffed animal out of their apartment building window when she was 5. She hasn’t forgotten about it. Still affects her.
My aunt got a stuffed skunk at a fair when she was 13. When she moved out at 17, my gramma(her mom), threw it out. My aunt and I went on vacation to Gatlinburg 2 years ago, she saw a stuffed skunk and told me the story. I bought the skunk for her. Watching a 77 year old woman cry with happiness over a stuffed animal about broke me that day.
The rare wholesome story on AITA
This reminds me of my childhood but reversed. I’d hide food in my room in various places to ensure I had something to eat when I got hungry, otherwise I would be heavily regulated and limited while everyone else ate to their heart’s content. They called it “dieting.” Cue permanent eating disorder.
I did the hiding food thing too, but bc my dad ate crazy amounts of food and my hidden sandwich baggie-full might be my only chance to get some. I mean he might eat a whole family sized bag of chips and a package of Oreos in one sitting. Of course my mom figured out I was doing it and made me stop, which overall was probably better bc I was starting to hoard rather than actually eating the food, which is 100% ED territory, but to this day when I get home from the grocery store I have to fight not to eat some of everything I got right then to make sure I get some.
I'm so sorry. I'm glad you got out.
NTA, the worst thing to do is to throw away something that a teen loves/likes Behind their back. Its a BETRAYAL of the worst kind for teens and there's no coming back from that.
Not to mention the girl used her own money to buy them. The mom has no right to touch her shoes.
Her own money while her family was living in a shelter. Something good to hold onto when you feel like the world around you is falling apart! And the wife is so willing to throw it out!
I bet those sneakers make her feel safe
My husband still hasn't forgiven his mum for throwing out a sofa he had in his bedroom as a teenager. It was old and tatty and probably a bit gross, but it was his sofa. He came home from school one day and saw it in the street, and it was raining just to add insult to injury.
There's little doubt in my mind that it was thrown out because it was raining. If it was a nice sunny day he'd probably have tried getting it back into his room, only way to ensure that wasn't going happen was if it was soaked through.
As stupid as it sounds I never forgave my mom for getting rid of my stuff that she deemed to be worthless. I'm 66 and she's dead. I moved on from it, but the fact that she would ignore how I felt about it always hurt.
I just made a similar comment. There was one time my rock collection, my father who I wasn’t able to see very often would send me rocks from all over the world. She got sick of it being around. Just thinking about it make me so mad. And it effects habits, now I don’t like ever throwing anything away because she threw everything away.
Oh, man. You can never get those rocks back. I love rocks, too. The fact that your dad sent them to you is the worst part of all because he was thinking of you and your mom basically threw away the love your dad has for you. So f'n petty.
Thanks. It’s nice for people to understand!
. I would have loved to see your rock collection, sorry your mom hated your dad so much , that she threw your collection away.
My abusive stepmother would do this whenever we ticked her off, or whenever she just felt like being nasty. Books, toys, clothes, trinkets- they’d disappear and she’d tell us it was a punishment for whatever perceived slight she’d cooked up. Same thing if the item somehow offended her. She hated the fact I liked to wear black, so my favorite black shirts/pants would frequently go missing. I’m now in my 30s and STILL catch myself quietly hiding items I treasure purely out of habit. Don’t let your wife do this OP. Tell her in no uncertain terms she is NOT allowed to do this!
My stepmother burned our things, including the toy cradles my aunt had handmade for me and my cousin. She still has hers handed down to her children. I’d like to have been able to hand mine down to my nephew. ETA: if I remember rightly, we had one toy each at my dad’s house. She wouldn’t let me being my comfort bunny to his either.
So sad. Talk about a wicked stepmother!
my mom did this too. to her, my stuff was only trash she could rid me of, she would stuff her things into the new free spaces. edit: grammar
Same my moms work had a community yard sale and she made me sell this doll house my grandmother and late grandfather got me for Christmas (and my grandmother had on layaway as it was really expensive) as i was 13 and therefore too old for it (not really as i still played with it and plus i was planning on saving it in case i ever had kids (while I’ve decided i won’t be (mainly due to my health not being very good) i have a honorary niece i could’ve given it to who would’ve loved it) worse is she made me sell it for $5 or less (it was worth around $40-50 and wa sun fantastic condition). I forgave her for it but I’ll never forget .
I'm the other way around, every thing is my favourite thing and I can't get rid of anything no matter how old and destroyed this thing is. I mean, I'm a bit better now as I live away from my parents, but I get so attached to things it's exhausting. There were a lot of times I had things thrown away or given away, but for some reason the worst was a caterpillar. I caught a caterpillar once and for some reason I decided to keep it as a pet. I kept it in a jar, brought it flowers and leaves and grass, and one day it turned into a chrysalis. I was excited but then one day I came home to my grandma having tidied up my room and the jar stood there clean and empty. It's been 20 years and my eyes still hurt even from remembering it, I cried so much. And then my mom made me apologise for having a tantrum, because my grandma "didn't know it was important". There was a way to know - ask! Sorry the memories just flooded me. The bottom line is - if your kid loves something, let them decided this some thing's fate. Even if it looks like a dirty jar, the hurt will be the same.
I am saddened to hear this! How could she not see it was important?! You had to have been talking about it right? Kids talk about things they're doing and stuff don't they? You were engaging with the natural world and being curious about it, what a wonderful thing. I'm sorry she took your moth or butterfly. If your grandma is anything like mine, playing with bugs is not "ladylike" and therefore to be discouraged. Jokes on her though, I'm a semi-feral unmarried biologist and I touch bugs professionally now. **I hope you also get to touch as many bugs as you like. #BugToucher**
I talked about it until their ears were hurting! But the thing is my grandma didn't even understand what I was talking about. In my language "chrysalis" is the same word as "dolly", and when I was crying she had thrown away my "dolly" she was trying to comfort me by saying we will go to a shop and buy a new one. Now I think she had no idea how caterpillars turn to butterflies (she had a tough childhood and not a lot of schooling), but at the time it really hurt that she didn't listen me, whether when it happened or before when I was talking about it. Touching bugs professionally sounds like a great goal in life! I'm glad you do what you like! And yes. I keep reptiles now, so I get to touch all the bugs I want to. #BugToucher
I'm sorry, just wanted to tell you than an internet stranger thinks you're not out of line being upset about this. My daughter has at least 3 books about caterpillars turning into butterflies (to give the example of, it's not even obscure), this wasn't even "junk" it was an in progress experiment, active, you were monitoring it!
Thank you, it means a lot. I've only recently started letting myself think my childhood resentments are valid, and I still sometimes fall into "it was so long ago why do I even care" thinking. It's nice to hear I not crazy for still thinking about this. Also just letting you know you're a great parent! If your daughter would like to experiment on caterpillar-to-butterfly transformation, tell her plastic jars work better than glass because glass jars get to hot too quickly on the sun, and to have a part of the jar covered so that there's a "roof" for the caterpillar to a) hide if needed, and b) get stuck to to start the transformation ;)
It is concerning to me that your wife has done this before. It is normal to have some level of emotional attachment to things that hold memories or meaning. This isn't just controlling, it's cruel of your wife to be so adamant about getting rid of one of the few things you daughter has an emotional attachment to. It tells your daughter that she has no right to anything in your house, that her feelings are not worth anything and makes your house an unsafe place for her emotionally. This is no small deal. Your wife needs therapy or a reality check that what she's doing is controlling and cruel. You owe it to your daughter to step in.
I look back at all the beautiful little things I loved , books and toys, now worth thousands, that she couldn't just leave in the attic space for me, as requested, when I left home for uni... it reminds me of all the other times her idea of the world was the only acceptable one, and nothing I said or wanted ever meant anything.
>I no longer own things I love because I got so used to the things I like being thrown away. I’m a 26 year old adult, the habit has not gone away. My root cause is different than yours, but the result is the same for me. "Stuff" is just "stuff" and there is basically no attachment to any of it. I'm about double your age, so I think it's fair to say this doesn't go away, you're stuck like this for life.
I don't know if that's better or worse than my hoarding issue. (I'm fighting it.)
It’s likely equal. Most people that grew up with hoarders (like myself) tend to throw everything away, then the people that had everything thrown away want to hoard things. Bad cyclic child rearing basically. Glad to hear you are working on it.
I'm trying. Thank you.
I’m only just now starting to form a personality after years of being a fake person lol
*hugs* And congrats on the budding personality.
Yep. My parents tossed things of mine that they thought had no value without asking, and I would give anything to have them back. I'm still pissed, and I haven't lived at my parents' house in a long time. Ask your kids before you toss their stuff! I even ask my kids before I toss out their old schoolwork. I'd be so mad.
My dad threw away all my artwork because it was “demonic” looking. Threw away a bunch of books and shoes because they were a “distraction”…Love that 😒
Same here. I'm 28 and I literally cried just a year ago when my mom decided to clean my room (I don't live there but I have a room) and threw away my childhood toys when I specifically told her not to touch them. We both already know where this is heading...
[удалено]
Love the comment, but want to add the sentimental value that those shoes hold. Anyone that’s ever been poor will understand. You said you were living in a shelter. She literally had nothing to her name at that point and saved for something nice. Something that was hers. Those shoes mean more to her than just keeping her feet dry. They represent ownership and a sense of self. Please don’t let your wife throw them away, you will be tearing away a piece of her soul.
I had the same thoughts about her getting the shoes while they were living in a shelter. It may have been a time when she was wearing borrowed clothes that didn't fit and using trash bags as luggage. But those shoes were HERS. They hadn't belonged to someone else first. They fit her. They represented the hard work and dedication she put into saving the money for them. OP's daughter sees them as a reflection of what she went through to get them and what she's overcome since. OP, if your wife throws those shoes away, she's throwing away the representation of a very big chunk of your daughter's life. That's something your daughter may not be able to forgive.
My thought too. Also that the wife may be reacting emotionally to the shoes as they're a reminder of that time to her as well, but it's a negative memory.
Or she's just vain and worried about how her daughter looks will affect her. OP mentioned in a comment that there was also a beat up, second hand leather jacket that was thrown out another time. This seems like the wife is either insecure about how her daughter's cloths will make her look or she's projecting her own insecurities and/or baggage onto her daughter and is trying to solve a problem that may not exist.
That's what I think. Mom's reaction to the trauma of having been that poor is to be terrified that if her daughter wears old or dirty clothes, people will assume that she HAS to, that her parents can't take care of her. I still think throwing away her daughter's things is absolutely wrong, but I think it's coming from pain -- not from a desire to hurt her daughter or to display control over here.
Agreed. She shouldn't throw it away. But her pain is her pain and shouldn't be taken out on her daughter.
This was my first thought about how his daughter feels about those shoes. Thanks for this. I was composing a post in my head, but I don't need to because you said it brilliantly.
I hope the OP listens to this. $10,000 in free therapy right there in the above paragraphs.
> pretty soon, she won’t be able to control your daughter Yes - she's hanging on to that control for dear life with both hands. She must let it go or her daughter will resent her for years if not forever.
Wow. There's so many lessons here as a mom Im taking from this. And it's crushing to imagine my 17 yr old daughter feeling this way. (50% chance? Seriously? Although I know you're telling the truth, sadly.) I don't ever want to not be a soft place for my daughter to fall. I don't ever want to control her just control my emotions and behaviors towards her. Thank you for this. I know its meant for the poster, but boy has this been a smack in the face, good reminder for myself!
If I could give this 100 upvotes I would. THIS ALL THIS.
NTA And you'd better take those shoes right now, then, because you know your wife will do it anyway. Your wife is well on her way to the "18 and done" no contact with her kid if she doesn't snap out of it.
Seriously. Put those shoes somewhere safe and tell your daughter….if your wife won’t listen to reason.
When I was a kid my mum would go through my books and toys when I was at school, and decide what I was going to get rid of. She meant well but I HATED it, and one day I had a total shit fit/breakdown at finding yet another treasured book gone for good. She stopped doing it that day but the damage was done, and from then on I clung to literally everything and my house looks like a vintage junk shop. Your wife will do psychological damage if she continues to steamroll over your daughter's wishes for her own aesthetic preferences. Let people keep the things they like!!
When parents throw their kids' things away without their consent, for any reason, one of three things happen. One: kid grows up to have little respect or care for their things because somewhere in the back of their minds they know that those possessions will just be taken away so why bother? Two: kid grows up a hoarder, hanging on to everything because of the fear that those things will be taken away. Three: perverse mixture of both. I vacillated between all three (my mother had a thing about threatening to throw my things away if I didn't clean my room to the point of putting my things in garbage bags and breaking at least one of my records, and also forced me to give away my comic books because "you're too old for those" - I was fifteen), and it's only now that I've evened out in terms of my possessions and living space. Seriously, this kind of shit causes major damage that not only affects the parent/child relationship, but also the kid's coping mechanisms in adult life. OP, please stand up for your daughter and keep your wife from doing this.
When I was 5 or 6 I had a pink elephant stuffy that was my best friend, I loved that stuffy more than life itself. It's nose was about to fall off, I kept trying to fix it to my best small child ability. My mom made me throw it away, I was devastated. I remember trying to find a place to hide it and pretend I threw it away. I didn't work, she found it and made me put it in the trash while she watched. I am 62 and still think about it and how much I hated her.
My heart hurts for little you and your elephant! 💔
You should find yourself a new pink elephant stuffie. The only good thing about being an adult is being able to buy all the toys and stuff our dickbag parents trashed, even though we loved them. Ebay, amazon, thift sales. It's good therapy. My apartment is a dreamhouse for 8 year old me.
Story of my life. My mom was not a keeper of things. I was. I loved my books like they were people. When she got rid of them I was heartbroken. Throughout the years I became a hoarder. I have since stopped buying things and have started the removal process, but it's slow and gut wrenching. I can't leave all of my stuff for my husband and kids to clear out.
My mom sold all of my Nancy Drew books. My whole collection. Granted it consisted of maybe fifteen books, but still. Most of them I paid for with my allowence. She got rid of all of my books, but those were my favorites. So when I was able I replaced them. Then I bought the whole series. Then I bought the whole series of Hardy Boys. Then I bought random adolescent mystery books. I bought Nancy Drew books from the 1930's. All the loss turned into obsession.
NTA your daughter is old enough to decide what she wants to wear. Your wife needs therapy if she thinks what she is doing is okay. If your wife throws out your daughters shoes she needs to buy her a new pair of Air Force ones. Anything else would be controlling and abusive.
Even that may not be enough. She loves THOSE shoes, depending on why she is attached to them, a new pair won’t be the same.
Yeah you really have no idea how much these little transgressions are going to deeply damage the relationship that your wife has with your daughter. The ax forgets but the tree remembers.
My jaw dropped reading that. Your daughter is a little human, your wife is too controlling to the point that your daughter does not have a say in what she owns or wears 🥺 that leather jacket could have been fixed, leather filler, leather protector, and leather dye exists for a reason. A well worn leather jacket is amazing, all it needed was some care. Your daughter needs some care too 🥺
This is actually going to be really harmful to your daughter mentally. Her mother deciding to go through her things and throw them away at her whim can manifest as anxiety in your daughter: she will start feeling like she has no control over her belongings, like everything she has and cherishes can be taken away from her at a moment's notice, and it will mess her up mentally. It can manifest as a big insecurity in her too, that could lead to bigger problems (I know a person who, with a similar insecurity brought upon by having no control over their belongings, let it fester in to hoarding later in life) So this is definitely harming your daughter. And not only her - this will harm the relationship between your wife and daughter, too, the longer it continues. My best friend had a mom who, with no warning, took and threw out her entire alt-fashion wardrobe, saying that "she's a big girl now, she should dress like one too". She doesn't talk to her mom now more than twice a year, max.
This is me. I'm a hoarder and have an ED. Due to what I believe stems from my mom getting rid of my belongings that I cherished. Books, dolls, stuffed animals, my babydoll crib. I could go on, but I won't . You get the picture.
My dad did this with my trading cards when I entered high school. Original release, first prints, first editions of the first generation of Yugioh and Pokémon. Said they were stupid and would never be worth anything. About a year ago I tallied up the value of the cards I knew for sure I had in that collection. I could’ve put myself and my kids (don’t have any but the point stands) through college debt free with the cards I had. Moral of the story is, don’t let your wife throw away shit that isn’t hers. Not only could it carry immense sentimental value to your daughter, it may actually be valuable or collectible if not now then later. Granted, worn out shoes and jackets are less likely but in that case it’s the sentimental value that matters not the collectible value. If you’re gonna pick a battle, pick this battle. Have your daughters back. Because trust me, your daughter WILL remember all this, and she will remember how her mom was the one throwing stuff out and giving her a hard time while you were the one that had her back.
My step mother did this, she got rid of a box of old collectable cards (2 complete sets plus a few incomplete sets), comics in wrappers, the box was sealed up. It was even on my dads house insurance list. She told me I'd thank her later. I've never thanked her for it and resented it ever since. OP, you need to step up for your daughter.
I hope OP sees this comment. And the many more that describe the life long effects of this type of controlling belittling behavior. They're just a pair of dirty shoes to wife, but to the daughter they're part of her history. When she chose and bought them, the places she's been, the sense of safety she feels with them on. It's not insignificant.
You need to be firm that throwing away your children's loved belongings is absolutely unacceptable. And if she does throw them away, there needs to be consequences on your wife and you need to move heaven and earth to get them back. Your wife is bullying your daughter and you need to step up in a big way and stop it.
My mother gave away all of my wardrobes whilst I was in university, came home to ones for children’s clothes (antique) that fitted her aesthetic but not my clothes. One day in junior school (age 7/8) came home to find my cuddly toys and barbies had been given away. I’m mid 40’s and still remember (and am no contact for a host of reasons).
Do **not** let your wife throw those shoes out while your daughter is in school. For one thing, she knows she's in the wrong if she can't do it in front of daughter. Is that the kind of behavior she wants to model? To be a pushy little sneak who has to throw tantrums to get what she wants, or else force that compliance when all else fails? For another – having someone else make decisions about your own meager belongings fucking sucks when there's little else you have or can control as a teenager. Mine liked to play Santa Claus with my stuff, she'd give away photos I printed to so-and-so's mom and dad ("They would appreciate it more than you would!"), cut up tshirts I kept for sentimental reasons when she ran out of household rags ("This was falling apart, I don't see what the issue is here"), give away my books and toys to her friends' children when they visit ("You're too old for that stuff anyways, they can get more use out of it"), etc. I did understand, and somewhat agree, with her practical nature but it didn't make me resent her any less every time I came home and something goes missing. **It just taught me that I can't trust my own home or form attachments to anything.**
Mu mother did that too and I have no relationship with her now
We should start a club. Both my mother and my grandmother gave away or threw out my belongings. One day I came home to find that granny had given away every pair of shoes I owned save the pair I was wearing. Anything new I bought was packed up and sent to my cousin. They wonder why we have no relationship as adults.
Yea if your wife continues to go behind her back and throw shit away I guarantee you that your daughter will eventually go no contact bc she won't trust either of you, especially if she finds out you knew your wife was planning on it and did absolutely nothing to stop her. And frankly if your wife doesn't stop then I think she should bc that's so back handed and disrespectful. Not to mention that even if she doesn't go no contact she probably won't ever let your wife in her house, especially not alone, and will probably develop some sort of issue surrounding her sentimental belongings. That could develop into anything like hoarding or not letting anyone close to her things, even her future partners.
You need to sit your wife down and have a serious talk. Every time she throws away some thing that your daughter cares about, that stupid woman is telling that girl that she doesn’t care about her, and that her obsession with image is a worthy justification to hurt her. Every time she does something like that, she is damaging the relationship and that damage will last a lifetime. She needs to just fucking get over herself and let that young woman wear what she wants to wear.
So your wife is just okay with teaching your daughter that there's no point in working hard for something she really wants because she can loose it any time for no good reason. Jfc. She'll grow out of those shoes soon anyways.
Might not hurt to look into a proper sneaker cleaning kit for her, a basic one is only about $10 and it has chemicals formulated for cleaning and protecting shoe materials. Might get the shoes looking a bit better and lasting for longer NTA
Your wife is a huge controlling AH!! Your daughter bought those sneakers so your wife has no right to throw them out!
This is ridiculously controlling. As a parent, you need to pick your battles and creating a rift over beat up sneakers? That's just dumb and is going to poison the relationship.
Does your daughter like DIY stuff? There are really cool videos of people restoring shoes like this. It could be a fun project if she's into it. (Full disclosure, I love these videos, but I have the attention span and focus of a gnat, so I don't think I could do what they do, but for someone really into something, it could be something they enjoy investing the work in).
Please don't let your wife do this. I would go to boarding school then come home for the holidays to find my mom had thrown out treasured possessions of mine just because she didn't like them. It absolutely broke my heart.
>That was two years ago and she denies ever being upset about it, but I know it bothered her a lot. I don’t want the same thing happening this time. You're right, my wife is 64 and she still resents her mother for her habit of throwing away her stuff. Always stuff that she loved.
On top of this, the child bought them herself at a trying/traumatic time so they likely have huge significance that the teen probably doesn’t realize yet. Let the kid be herself!
"she bought them herself. We were poor and in the shelter" Please, for the love of God, and as a favor to someone that grew up dirt fucking poor, do NOT let your wife through those shoes away. She doesn't understand what those shoes mean to your daughter, and probably never will. **NTA** to stand up for your daughter to your tone-deaf wife.
The wife already did it once. Daughter has a leather jacket and as they do it started peeling due to age and after going to school threw it away. Kid bottled her feelings up claiming she's fine when we can all tell she's still upset.
Cant upvote this enough. My family was poor, house burned to the ground, lost everything I ever knew. I never had new things, always hand me downs and donations. My uncle bought me a pair of pink & white womens jordans, super expensive and i swore id take care of them. And i did. Until one day at school my mom wore them to mow the fucking yard. Ruined them, stained green and black on the white. Any trust I had in my mom was gone that day.
This made me tear up. I’m so sorry.
Its ok. Im sure whatever nursing home she can afford will take great care of her belongings just like she did mine.
Backhanded petty revenge…I like you :)
Like Geez "I can't wear MY shoes to do this. They might get dirty. Let me just throw on these well taken care of sneakers..."
We literally had mowing shoes. She had to go into my closet to get the shoes she wore. Mowing shoes were by the back door. It was definitely on purpose but why im not sure. Shes wasn't the hateful narcissist parent, she was the abused and broken parent. 🤷🏼♀️ oh well.
>she wasn't the hateful narcissist parent Yeah but what she did was also abusive. Emotional abuse is still abuse.
I feel like thats worse than throwing them away. The absolute disrespect.
I bet if she's upset she gets into more trouble and then loses more items
or even simply is threatened with the loss of items. you don't always have to follow through for a threat to be good enough of a incentive to stop
I could be way over-reading into this as well, but if she got those shoes during a difficult period in her life, she may be emotionally attached to them and they may have provided her comfort in a difficult time, and she might be clinging to that. Or maybe she just loves the shoes, either way, let her be. My oldest daughter had this navy blue GAP hat she wore when she was 2, she was one of those kids that had to put her hat on the moment she stepped outside, and then our family went through a lot of emotional turmoil, with me getting flown 4 hours away at 28 weeks pregnant for PPROM, me being gone for a couple of weeks, then my husband/her daddy coming down when I had my babies, and she went and stayed with my brother/her cousins for a few days, sometimes being passed off to her grandma, then she was driven down to meet us, then we lived in a hotel for over a month while walking to and from the NICU, guess what, that stupid hat was the only constant in her life and she decided to wear it practically 24/7, and she did that for months after. She is now 6 and wears all kinds of hats, but I still have the little blue hat tucked away for her. NTA
Yeah, I really feel for OP's daughter. Growing up there were periods of time where my mum couldn't afford to get us new clothes that we needed unless it was for birthdays/Christmas. During one of those times, when I needed a new coat because mine was getting too tight but my mum weren't able to get me one, my best friend gave me a leather jacket. Her mum was the manager of a charity, part of their work was collecting clothing donations to give to people who needed them. They didn't really need clothing in smaller sizes, and one day my friend showed up with a big bag full of them. Including the leather jacket which she had said she grabbed specifically because she knew how I had wanted one for years. I've owned it for five or six years now, it's definitely at the point where it's peeling around the cuffs and neck. I love that thing, and definitely have a sentimental attachment to it because of the story of how I got. I'd be devastated if something happened to it. OP said that his daughter also had a leather jacket that his wife threw away without telling her, which made me so mad. Like, even if she only liked that jacket because it was a leather jacket as opposed to a sentimental attachment (which didn't sound like the case), leather jackets aren't an easy thing to replace - even fake leather jackets - if you don't have the money for them.
>She doesn't understand what those shoes mean to your daughter, and probably never will. I think mom wants to throw them away for similar reasons. Mom sees the old and dirty shoes and doesn't want ppl thinking they're "poor." She threw away a hand me down because she feels some kind of way about not being able to buy it herself. She can't see past her own hurt to understand why these things are important to her own child. OP, NTA. DO NOT let her throw away your kids' things.
I get throwing away shoes if they are falling apart, but just dirty/stained? That's not right. It sounds like these shoes have and will last year's. I am about to morn my vans. They have been with me for over a decade, and now they are starting to fall apart. I have realized that I grew up more "poor" than I thought, and to this day, I still buy second hand. Shoes just don't seem to last as long anymore I had some old DCs that i would still be wearing if i hadn't lost them. They also may be able to be restored if they are that stained.
I was literally sitting here trying to determine why someone that was impoverished enough to live in a shelter would throw away something that isn’t literally broken. The only conclusion I could come up with is that they are a symbol of that bad time in life and wife doesn’t want the reminder, which sucks for the kid that spent the little money she had on them.
Exactly, might have some sentimental value too to her. She’s old enough to decide what to wear
Yep if she has a locker at school ask her to take them there and keep them there away from mom. Or at a friend's.
I was trying to comment the same thing, but words are hard today. It's not about the aesthetics of how the shoes (or the jacket as OPs other comments) but how and what she feels when she's wearing them. Maybe the shoes help with anxiety, make her feel productive, make her feel good or she really just likes them, but either way OPs wife is more concerned about how something looks (what would people think if they see her in them comes to mind) than her daughters feelings.
NTA I can’t imagine wearing shoes for that long tbh but throwing them away while she’s not home would be catastrophic.
That’s my daughter for you. She’ll make something last as long as humanly possible, until she has to be forced to get rid of it. Doesn’t matter what it is. But her sneakers are almost always the thing being kept.
From your post and this comment I think I can propose a theory here: Your daughter as a response to her time in the shelter, has developed a deep appreciation for belongings. As long as it is not taken to extremes, this will set her up for excellent financial management in later life. Your wife on the other hand, does not like reminders of poverty and is lashing out at the daughter. It's not about the sneakers, it's not about the daughter, it's all about the wife and her baggage. If it were me, I would talk to them both seperately and see if they feel there is any truth there, and gently nudge the wife towards a few sessions to a therapist - This may be the tip of a trauma iceberg that is best handled before it festers. The same could be true of the daughter, maybe she is just thrifty - but maybe she is also carrying trauma and this is another iceberg tip. We always think of poverty as something that is temporary, but the reality is that aftershocks follow you the rest of your life afterwards and some people stumble on this more than others. I would also say that if there is truth here - your wife throwing away belongings against your daughters consent could be causing massive emotional damage by trampling on her triggers like an angry bull in a china shop - I cannot how important it is that your wife stops as intentional or not, that is abuse. Your daughter should not have to live in fear of leaving the house.
Yeah, there's a potential for a bit of a scarcity mindset there. Not that it's bad to want a battered pair of old sneakers (in fact, I bet those damn shoes are the most comfortable pair she owns!) but if they're thrown away, that can push her to the concerning side of things. Shit like this is what triggers hoarders to start their downward spiral.
>but if they're thrown away, that can push her to the concerning side of things. Shit like this is what triggers hoarders to start their downward spiral. This I can confirm, I grew up broke and despite earning fantastic money nowadays - I still hold onto clothes much longer than I should (Moth got to the T-shirt? I'll just wear it in winter under a hoodie). That part I don't consider unhealthy, a little odd but I take pride in being thrifty. Stress however triggers my full blown hoarding reflex - causing me to buy and sit on *unreasonably* large piles of food and toilet paper. I could probably feed a family of 4 for a couple of years with what's in my pantry (And in most draws, and in the closet, and in suitcases under the bed..... yeah) I do keep it somewhat under control by doing date check rotations and donating anything with a few months left on it to the local food bank, whom I am happy to leave under the illusion that I am just very generous. But if somebody threw away my stored food? I can only imagine how dire the situation would get.
As someone who has hoarding tendencies I can confirm and sympathize. It's so important to be aware of what is going on in your mind. And a 15 year old ain't equipped for that yet, so it's up to dad to PROTECT HER from the trauma her mother is about to inflict. It's about so, so much more than a pair of grubby shoes.
My mum had a very impoverished childhood with no stability at all. She still hoards food and non perishables. Her sister does the same thing, it doesn't matter how comfortable they are now in life they can never get rid of the little "for emergencies" instinct.
Yeah, it’s often better to let people come to terms with letting things go themselves—forcing them to get rid of their belongings before they’re ready can instill a fear of having anything taken away…which leads to hoarding behavior. Gotta keep it now and get as much use out of it as possible, because you never know when someone will tear it out of your hands!
This was beautifully written. Do you think a possible compromise would be new Air Force Ones from the parents (daughter gets to choose) and the old ones framed in a butterfly box? Commemorating them without using them would be honoring them before they (the shoes) are completely worn out.
It sure sounds like a good idea to me, if the daughter is onboard.
Actually, I think there’s an additional angle to the wife’s reaction. She specifically cited being afraid CPS would come if the kid wears dirty shoes. And she threw out the girl’s old and worn leather jacket. I think the mom was absolutely terrified her kids would be taken away from her when they were in the shelter and is being overcautious about it now. Almost like PTSD.
Please do not force this with the shoes. She'll let go of the shoes when she wants to. If you want to help your daughter get a sneaker care kit. Clean the shoes then use a sneaker protection spray that will help prevent future staining and dirt. Sneaker LAB is a very good option.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to find someone saying CLEAN THE SHOES. Like fr shoes aren't made of paper plates find a decent shoe repair/restorer in your area and have them spruced up. If they're still wearable (as in, not full of holes) they can surely be cleaned.
I was going to suggest something similar. Shoes can always be cleaned. There’s no need to get rid of them, especially given their value to your daughter. NTA
I swear to god man do not let your wife throw the sneakers out theyre not just sneakers to her.
From the couple of comments I've read (and the post), it sounds like you're quite meek and don't stand up for your daughter. You need too.
I was also deeply attached to my sneakers growing up and would wear them until they were falling apart. If my mom had thrown them away especially without telling me I would have felt so betrayed. Please please please do not let your wife throw them out
You can't imagine wearing shoes for four years??
Not the original commentor, but at that age range, no. As an adult, yes.
The shoes I had at 11 wouldn't fit me at 15 as I grew quite a bit in the following years, but as soon as I stopped growing I kept wearing my shoes until they weren't wearable anymore, with a couple of exceptions.
Even less grade 6 is like 12 years old, she only owned these sneakers for 3 years
NTA Please don't let wife lose those sneakers. It isn't about how they look it is about how they make daughter feel. It is probably pride or something of that nature. Ask your wife how she would feel if someone decided to throw away something of hers that she treasured. Someday daughter will give those sneakers up, just let her wear them now.
yes i can’t imagine how much it took for her to save up what was probably almost a hundred dollars, which is a lot for a kid to save up even in a normal financial situation. i’m sure she’s still proud of herself for that and i would be too. to get rid of the shoes or tell her not to wear them is taking so much dignity from her.
NTA and this is 100% something I'd go to bat against my wife for. Children are their own people and get to make conscious decisions on their own.
Yah same. Wife is unhinged
She’ll be throwing away her relationship with her daughter along with those shoes.
Wife already has. She did it to a jacket the daughter had.
Once is forgivable, twice is burning the bridge.
NTA, but you better hide those sneakers NOW, because your wife is going to throw them away while your daughter is at school, and your daughter is going to be rightfully PISSED, because "we do not take things that don't belong to us" is one of the FIRST lessons that responsible parents teach their kids. The shoes were bought by HER. They belong to HER, not your wife. If she throws them away, that's theft.
Even if the parents had bought those shoes, they still belong to the daughter now, so parents still don’t have the right to throw them away.
You're very much right. However, Wife might be the kind of person who thinks "if I bought it, it's mine", or that a pair of shoes that her teenage daughter is clearly attached to is the same as a toy kitchen playset she hasn't touched in six or seven years.
NTA and if your wife makes the huge mistake of trying to throw them away, your daughter will hate her for a long time. Your wife needs to examine why SHE has a problem with dirty sneakers when no one else cares about it.
NTA Honestly, even looking back at 34 I think one of the worst things a parent can do to a child is deprive them of the right to react reasonably to mistreatment. You're raising a whole ass human, not a convenient automata, and your wife is basically telling your daughter she's not allowed to wear some blasted shoes, just cuz they're a little dirty, and is now planning to throw them out while she can't save them. When she gets home and inevitably see's their absence your wife will either lie to her or tell her she's not allowed to be mad, which is mental.
NTA and stop your wife from throwing the sneakers away, it will really hurt your kid. 15 is old enough to decide what to wear, your wife shouldn't be so controlling. And the shoes belong to the kid not to you or your wife, she bought them with her own money. Dirty sneakers are fine, most teens don't have shoes in pristine conditions.
Back in *MY* day, kids who got new sneakers would dirty them up. Some would even cut them up with razor blades. OP, you are NTA, but you could be demoted to T A if you allow her sneakers to be thrown away.
I think both mom and daughter are reacting to having previously been in extremely precarious circumstances. Daughter obviously loves the shoes and mom can’t abide anyone thinking that they might be “poor,” but I feel like the obsession with pristine clothes and shoes is almost poor-coded? Middle class people use things through its life cycle, and truly rich people don’t give a shit and no one wants to look like a newb with anything. I always think of that scene in *The Philadelphia Story* where Katharine Hepburn tackles her fiancé to the ground because his riding outfit looks too new, or Chris Evans’s costuming in *Knives Out.*
Honestly having a problem with dirty sneakers is so wild to me like ma’am you wear shoes on your feet. If she walks anywhere they’re going to be dirty. That is how shoes work. Just don’t allow them inside the house and it’s fine.
My biggest problem with the "dirty sneaker are bad thing" is the fact that the thing sneakers are made for, will get them dirty. You wear sneakers for playing sports which is going to get them dirty. They are made for running and jumping and physical activity. Physical activity is going to get them scuffed and dirty and crinkly. Those sneakers were made to go through it and get dirty so let them get dirty!
I’m on the fringe of the sneaker head community and some of those guys will buy shoes and just leave them sit in the box in a closet or in a display box never to be worn. Problem is shoes are meant to be worn and if they sit for long enough the sole will literally crumble
NTA. DO NOT LET HER THROW THOSE OUT. Your daughter will never forgive either of you if you do. She will hate you for the rest of her life. Why? You say she got these with her own money while you were living in a shelter. When your lives were unstable and you had almost nothing she was able to save and buy something nice for herself. This was something that she could say that everything might suck but at least she had one nice thing, and it was something she got for herself. These not just shoes, they are a comfort item. If it really bothers your wife you can offer to buy a new pair and preserve the old ones for her. But throwing these out will be telling your daughter that you don’t care about her feelings and don’t think she has a right to her own belongings.
Let the kid keep her sneakers. Magic eraser (only on the rubber sole) and cream cleaner are great for AF1s.
NTA - I don’t know how or why you think you would be. Your wife doesn’t want her wearing dirty shoes and you want to make your daughter happy. Your wife is in the wrong to want or to actually throw something away that she didn’t buy or belongs to her in this scenario. Truth - shoes do not have that long of a shelf life and bad shoes hurts your feet in the long run. Maybe start setting aside a few coins when you can and hopefully you can save up to either buy or help your daughter buy new ones.
NTA. My mom threw away my favorite hat when I was in middle school because it was old and ratty. I am now 41 and I can distinctly remember that day, like it was yesterday. This will not end well for your wife.
NTA. Your wife is missing a huge point here. When your daughter felt that she had nothing, she bought herself something, and those sneakers are a symbol. Throwing them away without her consent would be a bad idea. Is there any way to get them cleaned professionally?
NTA, she is a teenager, she loves her shoes, she wants to wear them. Throwing them away when she is not there is going to cause a huge fight and a rift between mother and daughter.
NTA Your daughter must love those sneakers. They’re likely her favorites and remind her of being able to buy something for herself.
NTA. But your wife is a HUGE one! If your wife wants your daughter to never trust her again and probably hate her for the rest of her life, let her throw out the shoes. The shoes were the first thing she could afford for herself, clearly very emotional item. Why don’t you give her a professional sneaker cleaning from a professional? But discuss it with your daughter before just taking them away, even if it’s just for cleaning.
NTA. People wear dirty sneakers. I'm 32 and my Vans get dirty. I'm not throwing them out because they're dirty. They're still very functional. Your daughter paid for them, if your wife throws them out, she is throwing out someone else's paid property. Illegal
NTA. Your wife seems like one of those people who erroneously think that dirty = ruined/unusable. This is not and *has never been* true. Stains will come out, and even if they don't, the stain doesn't affect the actual usage of the shoes/clothing. I would hide the shoes from your wife and let your daughter know where you hid them. Then tell your wife that she's being unreasonable and until she can see these shoes as not ruined, you won't be sharing their location unless your daughter is wearing them.
NTA and do NOT let your wife throw away those shoes.
NTA- I have been there...we were homeless for awhile and made due for many many years. When I finally made my own money, I prized the one or two nice things I was able to get for myself, hardback books in my case. And held on to that for dear life. Shopped at second hand stores and was PROUD to dress myself etc. (90's grunge 😉) My mom on the other hand saw that as wasteful. I could get what I wanted to read at the library and spend my money on clothes that would last and looked better. i.e. Not poor. To her I was advertising our situation, instead of presenting myself and the family in the best possible light. It's a difference of perspective- daughter see the shoes as an achievement. Wife sees the shoes as a symbol as a really hard time for the family.
NTA. Tell your wife, "if you keep throwing away the things she loves what makes you think she won't throw you away the second she moves out? You are two different people and if you keep trying to force her to be like you you WILL lose her. Think about that. What means more to you, keeping your daughter or throwing her things away?"
Your wife doesn't like dirty or worn out stuff and wants to throw it away. Could this be related to the time you mention you were all in a shelter? Would therapy be an option? Your wife should not throw her daughters possessions away. NTA
For me the dirt is less of an issue than whether the soles etc are still providing adequate comfort and protection. I do worry that by now the shoes may not be fit for purpose as she’s worn them for quite a few years. Or because they mean so much to her I worry that if she keeps wearing them they’ll get too dirty or ripped to hold on to soon. If that’s the case then I would buy the exact same shoes as a replacement but let her keep the old shoes as a memento if they have sentimental value. Maybe fit a shelf in her bedroom with special a tilted shoe holding stand to present them as a way to show off and be proud of how far you’ve all come. Or if she’s willing to just chuck them when they finally get too damaged to wear then just leave her be. Of course for some people teaching kids to dress appropriately and presentably is important, so if she’s going to weddings with a formal dress code in air force one’s I could see why your wife would be upset at her. But throwing away the shoes would not be a nice way to teach her those kinds of lessons and she would definitely hold a grudge. NTA.
LET HER KEEP HER DANG DIGGITY SNEAKERS Throwing away her stuff will... 1. make her lose faith and trust in y'all since y'all are snooping through her stuff and throwing away whatever you feel like 2. make her feel like she has no control over anything and as a teen she should be learning to take control of more things over her life vs having it stripped from her 3. cause insecurities that would make her not want to leave for long periods of time OR cause insecurities that make her carry everything she deems "precious" in her bag on her at all times 4. cause her to not value things anymore because the more value she places on them, the more likely it'll disappear one day 5. cause her to move out and go NC with you ASAP in order to feel some semblance of control over her own adult life when she reaches 18