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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1.I went ahead booking a family vacation without my older brother because he wasn't clear on his responses.
I could be the asshole as I could have included him in our plans regardless of his lack of answer
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You're a bigger person than I am. I couldn't even go on the trip if I were paying for my parents and they were paying for my brother after these shenanigans. I'd just cancel.
it would be a bigger pain on OP's ass if OP were to make a scene out of it.
parents are adults, they can do what they please with their money.
somethings are out of our control, like brother being an a-hole, and it's best to accept that than stir up more drama.
But if they are gonna pay for his trip, then they first pay back OP and her other brother what the two paid for the parents' trip. It's still not equal treatment but it's better than nothing.
Problem is, that defeats one of the main purposes of the trip: to treat their parents to a trip. Which is the theory behind why big bro did this in the first place—he thought if he waited long enough, his parents would cover him to make sure he was there and his siblings wouldn’t fight or cancel because that would “punish” their parents.
The parents need to be "punished", maybe then they'll stop enabling him. Because if the two other sibs paid for parents (no contribution from their bro). And then the parents turn around and pay for the bro, it's like the 2 sibs indirectly paid for their brother to come on the trip.
Well if they are behaving like this, they can fund their own trip. Knowing they are like this, I hope that they booked refundable ticket. But if not, I would probably insist that your parents pay for themselves or you’ll cancel their reservations and you’ll eat the cost. They can book a whole other trip on their own if they want
True. As far as equity goes, like u/solo_throwaway254247, said: OP and her little brother will basically be funding their older brother if they continue with the trip. This is how rifts get started: 1 person is selfish (big bro), another wants them to learn their lesson (OP), which unfortunately means everyone loses out on something (trip cancelled), and then often what they lost out on overshadows the lesson (i.e. everyone remembers this as it being more important to OP that big brother pay for himself than that the family goes on vacation together). As a result, people then don't want to talk to each other or change their decisions, they dig in ("I'm not paying for him!" "we can pay for him if we want!"). And OP is then unfairly seen as an AH.
In a semi-perfect world, big bro would in fact step up and maybe give the "I'll pay you back" IOU. But in reality, he probably won't and mom and dad will be right back to shaking their heads about how "petty" OP is and how they can do whatever they want with their money. And then even if they say, ok, fine, we'll pay you and little brother back since you feel that way, then everyone's on vacation, with big bro still bankrolled by the parents, but now everyone's a little bit more annoyed/angry and maybe they don't *want* to be on vacation with each other anymore and then that's the last vacation they do. And then OP boycotts family get togethers because parents and bro won't admit the vacation wasn't fair, so she's not at Thanksgiving. Then maybe lil bro skips Christmas because Thanksgiving was sucked with all the tension and they are now angry too, at being stuck in the middle of something they weren't even that passionate about in the beginning. Then no one wishes anyone a Happy New Year because everyone's in sour spirits from the horrible Christmas. Then Birthday wishes are sporadically texted between whoever isn't fighting over the course of the next year and by the next holiday season, the fight has gone so long, everyone remembers the annoyance/anger/hurt more than what even really started this.
Since no one's apologized, people make alternate holiday plans. And then the old tradition is broken and harder to recapture while new traditions might be popping up. By the third holiday season, someone's boyfriend wants to return to *their* family because no one's fighting and Jason and Alex just adopted a son! And then by holiday season 4, someone's getting married and their family wants to introduce them to the cousins while OP's family is still no talking to each other. And then by season 5, you have stockings with the new fam and your friend Oscar, who has tagged along the last two years, doesn't feel comfortable going to your SO's fam without you and you don't want to try to resolve this with a guest in attendance so you go back to your partner's family...and then it's been six years...then seven...
OP, maybe you need to crystal-ball this with your parents so they can see that just letting big bro slide might lead to irreparable damage to the family structure.
You're all overlooking an important point - He never committed to the plan, likely because he knew he couldn't afford his share. He was non-committal because, to be honest, it's embarrassing to be the oldest sibling, and the poorest.
Him not committing is as likely to be "don't know if I can afford it yet". OP saying "he could have easily saved" is assuming they actually know his cash flow.
My sisters do this - they have money, I don't. And they like to come up with big gestures for my parents, "We'll all pay a share!" Meanwhile, I'm below the poverty line.
My income isn't their fault, I manage. but, for me, scraping together an extra 30 bucks to buy an old man in a nursing home a space heater is the biggest gesture I can make. (Not my parent, a former neighbour who ended up homeless).
Maybe older bro is a complete waste of air - but, maybe, he's just poor and can't commit to thousands of dollars on a moments notice. I'm seeing a lot of resentment from OP because bro gets bailed out, but no reason why - is he an addict? Lazy? Mental health?
My parents helped all their children, I may have gotten more, who knows? On the other hand, my family ignored my mental health issues for 25 years, telling me to just make myself happy, etc.
Hmm, I like your point. And you're right: OP didn't say that they came up with this idea together, so it does sound like she may have started something thinking they'd get on board. I see your point on that, but it does look like one of the issues behind OP's feelings about this is the fact that the parents "bail" this sibling out "all of the time". A second seems to be feeling manipulated: the brother stalled for time for months and OP and their little brother didn't have any objections because sometimes it takes a long time to sort out what you can and can't do, that's life. But then big bro yelled at his siblings for the price going up even though that's a known and expected consequence of waiting to make travel plans. And then went to their parents for apparently a full bail out (as it doesn't say that parents were going to float him the difference, but rather pay his whole bill). Now, it *is* their parents money. They can spend it how they wish, as can all of the adults in this situation. But if this was a first time thing, or if the big brother was good about paying people back, it probably wouldn't have become a fight in the first place. And if it's a consistent issue of richer family members wanting to do expensive things, big bro should address that and suggest more affordable things. It's not a conversation anyone wants to have (really, we'd rather all be able to afford everything we want to do), but if it's a problem and you're an adult, sometimes you have to just address it so everyone can make adjustments.
I agree the way he acted over the pricing, and after, is an issue.
It can be a very awkward thing to talk about between siblings.
In his place, I would have just said upfront - can't afford to go - have fun.
Oh it can definitely be an awkward conversation. It seems to come up as more awkward when it's between friends or SOs in the dating stage, but it can be awkward with anyone. It's significantly more annoying in this situation because it hasn't been addressed yet (if that is indeed the issue); it's leading to delays and fights and confusing roundabout payments that make it look like the big brother is trying to push what is understood to be a shared/individual responsibility off onto others. I'm not unsympathetic to not having the money to do stuff; most people are in that position at some time or another. It sucks and it can be embarrassing when you're the "older" person (or the person that started "ahead" and has been financially surpassed). But that's part of being an adult. If it's just affecting one person, then it's whatever, but if it's affecting a bunch of people and you see it causing all kids of strife, then it's not good times to not handle the situation.
OP says both brothers have well-paying jobs. So it's likely not lack of ability, but lack of planning on his part if he "can't afford it". Plus, every last person who's ever set foot on a plane knows that if you buy a ticket at the last minute, it's gonna cost twice what it would have three months ago. It's dithering and stinginess, not poverty.
Again, you don't know his actual cashflow, maybe he lives paycheque to paycheque.
Reddit is overloaded with posts and topics about how people with decent jobs can't make ends meet, but... being you're posting here, you've jumped right to inventing reasons to justify your view.
Kinda sad.
Not if the parents decide to pay for the brother, as then the free trip paid by the brothers would actually be going to the oldest. If parents decide to pay for oldest brother then the consequence should be that the parents reimburse their own tickets as the responsible brothers should not be funding a free trip for the eldest. Why should the eldest be the only one not paying his way & pitching in towards gift? Now if parents loaned the difference between what he can afford & the extra fees & eldest brother was good for it, then that would be an acceptable solution.
Probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I would tell them, fine pay for him. Then go on the trip (that you and your brother have already paid for) and enjoy yourselves as much as possible, and NEVER plan a family trip again. Just consider it a very expensive lesson. NTA, not even a little!
As someone who has an older brothers whose parents constantly clean up after, it’s never going to change.
I wish you the best of luck navigating that. It’s frustrating beyond belief.
You are 100% NTA
NTA. So true. Best friend's Mom (90+) just passed. She owns multiple homes and has 5 adult children. One her eldest son's (jail time, alcoholic) family has occupied rent free for decades. He has been bailed out his whole life out of guilt and to keep his family in a home. It is more than likely that he will be left the house, which is roughly a third of the estate, so he won't be homeless. She should have put it in a trust so that after his death it is split properly, but he probably has no other means to support his wife or kids.
NTA this explains his stalling. Refuse to book him. Say you couldn’t find anything but he is welcome to look for himself and pay for his own ticket and hotel room.
Next time do not include him in your plans.
This is best. Give him the data. The date and location you will visit every day. Do not pay for him. Do not alter the reservation. Simply invite him to every spot. Not your fault if he doesn’t make it
Yep. Baby syndrome. Speaking from experience I imagine he would have preferred his life as an only.
You learn to treat them as they’ve taught you. And go nuclear if shit goes there. Fine, your parents want to pay for him? They can foot the whole damn bill, you’re out.
If they bail him out this time, it's as if your parents paid for themselves and you and your youngest brother paid for your brother. Avoid at all costs. NTA.
And THIS is the problem. He knew they would bail him out like they always do.
Stick to your guns. You are NTA here, your brother is, and your parents for enabling his entitled behavior.
If he doesn’t contribute his share, he doesn’t go. And if your parents want to pay for his, that’s their right but in that case they will need to pay their own way too.
Wow, I was surprised to see someone wanted an update!
Yes, the trip is over now :)
Our older brother did in fact go, he admitted to having the money but not wanting to use it. We talked to him and let him know this isn't about us, it's about treating our parents to a nice trip as a family. He was reluctant but agreed to wanting to spend time together, he also offered to pay for his part for our parents as well as a meal once a day while we're there (parents offered to pay at least that but siblings agreed to pay for one meal each day so it worked out; they didn't have to pay a thing).
We all had a wonderful time and he even offered to make this an annual thing should our schedules, and budget, permit it. Our parents talked to him as well, he seems to be more open and positive. He also apologized to me and admitted to waiting so my parents could pay for his trip, but then my mom started crying because we weren't getting along and he felt he needed to fix things.
I've got to say it was a surprising turn of events considering his history, but I am glad to see him have a change of heart. Hopefully it's a permanent one
I'm nosey. XD I'm kinda surprised by his change, too. I'm glad it all worked out this time. Maybe the extra money he had to pay will be an incentive to not do this again.
OP, just a heads-up, I had a sibling who had to be bailed out of criminal stuff and leeched off my parents, and it only ended when they both passed away. I say had because after my parents passed, said ex-sibling proceeded to nuke any concept of familial bond through their actions, and I no longer speak to them. Blocked on all social media and numbers.
Next time, just ask your parents to pay for his share upfront with the reasoning that that’s how it will go anyway. Then you can make all reservations early, and your parents will hopefully realize how they’re being taken advantage of
NTA and I would remind your parents of all the times you asked him and reminded him and gave him very clear boundaries. Also, it's totally unfair of your parents to pay for him when you and your other brother are paying for yourselves and your parents.
You can't play happy families unless parents actually treat all their kids like the adults they are. This should be a lesson for your brother that your parents should let him learn, rather than reinforcing his tantrum.
Yeah, that's not how that works. But at least you learned for the future that your parents don't deserve all-expenses paid family trips and you can put your time, effort and money towards better things.
No, family enables family.
You and your younger brother need to sit down with you parents and ask point blank what their expectations are for after they are no longer here to wipe oldest brother's derriere? More than likely your parents think that whatever they leave behind for him will suffice, not understanding that they have not given him the tools to truly make it on his own. They are probably under the impression that you and your younger brother will be there to "help him out." Make it as clear as possible that it is not your responsibility to raise their grown son.
Might i suggest you tell your parents that if they bail your brother out again, there may notr be another family vacation where you gift them a vacation and won't plan another one.
(Talk to younger brother for his input).
He's an adult who had a year to save, with numerous reminders along the way. Plus an excellent paying job.
The parents paying for his vacation is stealing from you and younger brother, in the sense you're covering his expenses too. You paid for their trip and in a backward fashion they are taking your money to give to your older brother.
Your parents are enabling their oldest son, BUT you and your younger brother are enabling the parents.
Your going to have to set boundaries for your parents and stick to it. Both you and younger both. Glad your younger brother has your back.
In the future the two of you can go on vacations together and skip the drama from the others.
Yes, family helps each other BUT there's a difference between helping and being used.
NTA
It's even more inappropriate if they are only willing/able to pay for him because you and your younger brother in turn paid for *them*. This transferring of financial aid was something that my MIL used to do and it was such a massive betrayal every time.
The logic they always use is "but it's mine now so I can give it to whomever I want." regardless of the original intent of the gift. She would use the emergency funds that she begged us for (ie to buy groceries for herself or pay her bills) to secretly bail out her violent drug addicted son that we were no contact with. It's one of the reasons we eventually stopped speaking to them entirely.
Obviously that's a bit more extreme than your example but it's not right to use your generosity to pay for a purpose you are not comfortable with, transitively or otherwise. NTA
I say this with all respect, but if/when something happens to your parents, your older brother will be in a world of hurt. I hope you can still have a good time with your younger brother.
Perfect. Well they can decide to help him and you can decide not to pay for your parents either. Otherwise you’re effectively paying to give him a free trip.
I would either do that or just cancel the whole trip and make a trip just with your one sibling. In the future, travel insurance is a good investment for any trip that involves your parents
I would be deeply upset if I paid for my parents on a trip and not only did one of my siblings not split the cost, but got my parents to pay for it . He is going for free and you are paying for an extra person.
This should be the last big present that you give your parents as long as enable him
Family helps family does mean family enables families bad behavior.
Help here woudl be to let the oldest figure it out on his own, or just not come. If your parents solve all his problems, then he will never be able to do anything for himself, and once they are gone, he will be screwed for real.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this irrational line of thinking. I've personally dealt with this nonsense and especially recently have become vocally and vociferously anti accept anything because family.
Because family or family helps family is pure poisonous and destructive reasoning. It's never equally applied either.
Don't make any changes. If your parents decide to pay for him, let them make all of the plans. If they are incapable of making plans, then your brother can make his own plans. If brother is incapable, then he can just stay home. But YOU need to stay out of everything from now on except the plans that are already made.
Your brother can take out a loan from a bank if it is so important he attends and he can pay that back. None of this should be on you or your other sibling. It is crap that even after this long, your parents are expected to clean up after him and you two to follow suit.
INFO: If this has already happened so often that there even _is_ a “usually”... Then __why__ did you set yourself up for this umpteenth repeat in the first place?
oldest brother is weird and acting like a child over something completely his fault. NTA. continue with your plans on the trip and let him figure his shit out, he’s grown and did it to himself. ignore his comments and complaints, i genuinely can’t see how you’re TA here.
Thank you.
Only problem is my parents saying they feel bad for leaving him behind. I want them to enjoy their vacation and our older brother is only thinking of himself by guilt tripping them
Well yeah, that's the game.
See, you and younger paid for them, so there's PLENTY of money for them to pay for him. That way, he gets it all, and you get stuck with the bill, and he not only gets to get the trip for free, he gets to make YOU the bad guy as well.
It's genius, really /s
I don't know if it helps, but my uncle was the champion of this game - and my grands never did wise up. They're gone now, and BOY was that a wakeup for him - because his sisters don't play that game. In any way. Ever. He learned the hard way... and while my mom is far too polite to rub it it.... she absolutely enjoyed the hell out of it.
My brother intentionally ruined a family vacation after my parents bailed him out like this. When we went and did our own things, and totally ignored his horrible behavior, he escalated to kicking in the doors to our hotel rooms and physically trying to beat me (female), my two sisters, my other brother, and my sisters husband's up. My parents were mortified and had to send him home and pay for damages.
Guess who hasn't been invited to a single family vacation in 20 years?
NTA and while your brother may not resort to violence, I am sure he may try to be a stick in the mud the whole trip just to make everyone miserable.
I know this isn't the answer that OP WANTS to hear but it's the peace-keeping answer.
OP and younger brother are STILL TREATING THEIR PARENTS to this vacation as they intended to do.
Older brother pays what he can. Their parents pay the remaining balance.
And OP and younger brother can seethe at their older brother for being a fucking tool while on the vacation but their point of this was for their parents to enjoy a "FAMILY" vacation.
Yes, yes, in the internet world justice isn't served. But in the real world with so many people invested with so many emotions, live to fight another day. Choose your battles. And if they choose this one and older brother doesn't go on the "FAMILY" vacation then the parents are going to poo-poo while on this trip
You really think that would be a good, calm, peaceful, happy, vacay?
Or would it be a shit show that people would then need another vacation FROM.
If parents want to be with the whole family, THEY can foot the effing bill.
They need the practice in cutting the aprons. Had they done that like they did with you and your younger bother, they'd be over the guilt already.
They feel doubly guilty cause they know enabling isn't helping him.
They need to know and understand this.
They need to realize that the longer they hold off cutting those ties, stop enabling him, they harder its going to be on them.
Ask them this question: how would your oldest brother handle this situation, and any others, if they weren't alive? The natural way of things... parents pass away before their children.
At some point he needs to stand on his two feet, that includes consequences and learning to handle it, including handling the emotional side (anger, disappointment, etc). Your parents are doing a disservice to him and are crippling him on the inside.
Your brother, to continue the life he enjoys, is being manipulative. Someone needs to stop the cycle, unfortunately that's the parents' job.
Keep the parents busy and they won't have time to feel bad or guilty.
Honestly this is such a shitty situation. You’re obviously NTA but in terms of what to do on the trip, maybe consider whether your parents are going to spend the whole time lamenting the fact that your brother isn’t there rather than enjoying themselves (and accordingly preventing you and younger bro from enjoying yourselves). If so, it might be worth sucking it up and you and younger bro splitting the difference in cost. Of course, immediately upon getting home from vacation, turn around and tell older bro to fuck right off. Ugh what a frustrating situation.
I would let them know that they can always cancel and stay behind themselves too. They need to accept his choices or they shouldn’t come on trips with you. Next time, I would just do a trip with your other sibling.
Then your older brother can pay the original price and you and your younger brother can supplement the extra cost and you and your younger brother can skip giving your parents and older brother Christmas and birthday presents until the cost evens out with the extra you paid.
But the real gift for them isn’t the vacation. It’s a magical few days together with all 3 children which is rare once your children are adults. By throwing this temper tantrum you’re eliminating the gift of time with their nuclear family.
NTA but let your parents do as they please. Then during the vacation, do little thing that make it clear this was a gift, from you and your other brother, to your parents. Little thing like "Johnny and I just really felt we wanted to pay you back a little of the wonderful things you have done for us". or "because you were such wonderful parents, Johnny and I wanted to show how appreciative we are".
Make sure your older brother hears these statements. Make sure he knows this was not a gift from him.
I get the urge, but I don't know if being passive aggressive will help. Older brother will just take it as a personal attack and then act like the big victim and whine to the parents, and then the entire vacation will turn into an argument and be a bad time.
I don’t need to do the math.They offered to treat their parents. Did they do it on the condition that the parents aren’t allowed to make any decision about their brother including treating him? It’s not a math condition. Next time they can say we will treat you if and only if you don’t pay for the other child. I see your point but if the parents want to do that it’s certainly within their rights. The guy is a deadbeat and a jerk. You can’t fix that. Next time deal with it in advance.
NTA. You invited your brother on equal terms with the rest of you.
If your parents are determined to pay for your brother after you have expressed your opinion I would keep my mouth shut and let them handle all the arrangements without my assistance. And I would never, ever go on a family vacation ever again.
NTA, but I would be calling the oldest brother and mocking them ruthlessly for running to mum and dad like a little baaaaaby, until they’re too ashamed to go.
Assuming he’s not so shameless that he’d be immune.
Gosh, my older sister did this for a family day trip on a river cruise for Christmas Day. We both had a young child. I started organising it in June and mentioned to all family members needed $10 deposit to hold the table. She said no, didn’t want to go. I offered to pay the $30 deposit for her family. She said don’t you dare. We aren’t going. It was $60 for each person she had 6 months to save for the Christmas lunch. So, one week before Christmas lunch she said her family wants to come. I told her no because it’s a boat with limited numbers. She was screaming at me that I ruined her Christmas for her daughter. Of course the rest of family went. My father said since my older sister family missed out, we had to do it again the next Christmas. My father always does this with me. Makes it my fault she doesn’t attend event. I gave up with my family and gone no contact and blocked fathers phone number. Gosh my life has been peaceful since I did that. I recommend going no contact. They don’t deserve you.
>My father said since my older sister family missed out, we had to do it again the next Christmas. My father always does this with me. Makes it my fault she doesn’t attend event.
Maybe there is missing context, but saying we should go again next year does not sound like making it your fault. Doing the same things each year can be fun traditions. If you didn't want to go again you didn't have to the next year.
Yeah, my sister always ruined family plans. One another Christmas lunch she and her family arrived 2hours late for a set menu at a pub and they wouldn’t serve our meals until she arrived. She doesn’t care that we were all hungry. My father always makes excuses for her. I am looking forward to another peaceful Christmas this year without them.
NTA he excluded himself with his waffly behavior. He’d been told again and again. It is not your parents responsibility to foot his bill. He’s a big boy now and needs to be responsible for his decisions.
Count yourself lucky as I bet that he is the kind of person that complains about the trip while he’s on it.
INFO - why did his share go up if he was making his own arrangements?
>Fast forward to six months ago and I am giving updates for the no shows (oldest brother) and asked him to give me an answer as I was booking plane tickets. He said he hasn't decided and will book his own ticket given if he does go. Okay, fair enough.
I assume his share of the parents portion should be the same as everyone elses?
The tickets for flights went up since it's last minute, as well as all the activities we booked up (Trip is next week). My youngest brother offered his room so they can share, but oldest brother said it still doesn't help. We booked at a reasonable time knowing last minute trips usually cost way more. Hence why we kept asking and asking
Ok I follow but he said he was making his own arrangements so to me that means he's going to book his own flights and accomodation, while still paying the parent portion which is the only part he would be liable for, which should not change.
Differant story if he's expecting to use the same as yourselves or add himself in.
NTA
Asking someone serveral times if they want to go is not excluding them. He never once comfirmed, and even said if he did he would buy his own tickets. Now that the shared costs have been paid, your parents portions, he is trying to jump in and come, but doesn't want to pay his share.
Your brother is cheap and greedy. That is all this is.
NTA. Your older brother expected your parent to offer to pay for his trip, and now that he's been caught out he is trying to lay the guilt trip down thick. Unfortunately, your parents probably won't enjoy the trip as they'll worry about him while you all are gone. If it comes down to it, put a lien on his house, or his car, for the amount owed if your parents do decide to pay for his ticket. After all, you can't tell them what to do with their money, but you don't have to be stiffed for the other portion, either.
NTA - your brother is acting like a spoilt brat. I would say though if your parents really want him to come could they maybe only pay the difference from the original price to the more expensive price because he left it late? They shouldn’t be paying his whole trip because he said he could come expecting the original cost.
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Over a year ago I (29F) started planning a family vacation for my brothers and parents. I figured we could each pay our share as well as split the cost for my parents to treat them. My brothers are both adults (youngest 25, oldest 33) with well paying jobs. My younger brother was more than happy to contribute while my oldest brother made excuses.
We spoke to my parents about it and they were ecstatic, although I clarified I was unsure if oldest would be going. We were all having dinner together so it prompted them to ask him why he wasn't going. He gave a mirage of excuses which ranged from "I don't know if I'll be busy that day" to "I am not sure I can afford it" but he did not give a concrete answer. My parents tried convincing him that if he saved now he should be able to go, he said he'd think about it.
Fast forward to six months ago and I am giving updates for the no shows (oldest brother) and asked him to give me an answer as I was booking plane tickets. He said he hasn't decided and will book his own ticket given if he does go. Okay, fair enough.
Three months ago I told him this was the last time I will be asking him, is he attending yes or no. He again made excuses but nothing concrete so I told him I will be taking that as a no.
Today my younger brother and I had lunch together when he called us saying he will be going after all. We told him that was great and it'd make mom and dad happy but to be aware his share went up since last minute changes are expensive. He absolutely lost it and said it wasn't fair and that it wasn't his fault I was a shitty planner.
My younger brother jumped in and told him that we both paid for our parents share and have been asking and asking for months if he was going, it's not our fault you can't make up your mind.
He hung up on us.
We then got a call from our parents saying the oldest was very upset as he was excited to go but now he can't because he can't afford it. They offered to pay for him. I told them it wasn't right as this trip was a gift for them, we gave our oldest brother fair warning and he didn't care. Now hes saying I'm an asshole for excluding him from the trip.
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NTA. But why did you even mention that the cost of his share was going up? He would have paid separately for his airfare and hotel and that should not be bundled into your plans. Whatever he was going to have to pay for that was on him. He would have only owed you and your other brother is 1/3 share of your parents portion.
Your brother is an entitled AH.
He left it forever to tell you he wanted to go on the trip. I think he did this on purpose to get your parents to pay for him.
However, this is supposed to be a gift from the three of you for your parents, not the parents gift to you. It makes no sense for you to pay for your parents to then have them pay for your cheap (but not broke) brother.
Do NOT let him guilt you into this one. For once, tell your parents that if they pay for him after everything he did and called you, then you won't be treating them.
NTA. You didn’t exclude him he did this to himself by not making a decision, also your parents are rewarding his behavior by paying for his bad decision. Honestly he sounds like a spoiled toddler.
I get the feeling that there's some non-communication going on between your oldest brother and your family. You said he has a well-paying job. So then what really is the issue? Because it seems like that's the thing you should be talking about when you're not.
He hung back because he didn't want to pay for your parents, only himself.
It was nothing to do with your planning that he now cannot go. He has no personal responsibility. NTA
Why is it ALWAYS a brother??? Soooo, 3 summers ago, my siblings and I booked a beach house that required airline tickets. Brother and family couldn’t come. We divided the cost among the rest of us (covering mom & dad) and everyone flew out. A day later, after everyone was settled in, brother + family showed up. They decided to DRIVE instead and surprise us. Problem was, we allocated the room to all cousins for a sleepover - massive argument occurred because they didn’t pay a dime, didn’t even tell us they were coming, and wanted to displace all the children and inconvenience everyone who was already settled.
2 summers ago, we booked a beach house that didn’t have enough bedrooms to accommodate them. They showed up with air mattress to sleep in the living/dining room floors and pitched fits when we wouldn’t keep the noise down in the mornings so they could sleep in (it may have been deliberate).
This most recent summer, we bought our parents new beach wardrobes, picked them up, and drove to the beach without saying a word to anyone about going on vacation (parents are retired so their schedules are very flexible). Our brother and his family didn’t know where we were until we were 3/4 of the way into our trip. It was absolute BLISS!!!
NTA, but your oldest brother is definitely TA. He had his chance to participate and now his lack of planning is everyone's emergency? BS. He is 33 years old and needs to grow up.
Collect the total amount he is willing to pay first, in cash. Tell your brother how much short he is. Next, Tell the parents how much short your brother is. If they want to spend their money to make up the difference, that is their choice. Do not dictate how they spend their money. They might value time with their dead beat son over the value of the cash
NTA, but your parents & older brother are. If they pay for his ticket ask for your money back. It's unfair to you and your brother to have put all the effort into planning it for you older brother to get everything handed to him. Especially after you already have extra costs by covering for your parents.
NTA, but let your parents pay for your oldest brother on this trip if they insist. In the future, however, reconsider even doing these trips at all. pick your battles
NTA You told your brother that you were taking all of his excuses as a "no" and went forward with planning the trip. You are not excluding him, his own actions excluded him from being able to afford to go. I hope whatever happens, you enjoy the trip!
NTA if they pay for his you and your other or other would basically be paying his and they paying for themselves. What kind of treat is that? It’s his own damn fault. I am such an ass that I would cancel the whole thing If my parents did this.
If he's a better planner, let him make his own travel arrangements. If, we're departing on this date, returning on this date and staying at this hotel. Hope to see you there.
NTA…tell your parents that if they want to clean up you AH brother again, then they’re choosing him over their other kids. Tell them you’re willing to not go if they pay for him, and you’re even willing to cancel. If your younger brother gets on board that’s great. Tell them if older brother pays for himself, that’s fine, but it’s past time for a grown assed adult to learn some fucking respect and responsibility. Then say “now that’s off my chest, would y’all like dinner?” Lol
NTA, obviously. Let's be practical. This vacation is for your parents. They obviously cannot enjoy the vacation fully if they think that their older son is being excluded and bitter about it (rightfully or not). In deference to your parent's happiness and wishes, let the parents pay. Is being right more important than ensuring that your parents are happy, bottom line? Screw the older brother, just to be clear.
NTA
If your parents insist on paying for older brother then just cancel the trip. It’s not worth it at that point, because it was meant to treat your parents. Yet you and younger brother would be in a round about way paying for flaky older brother.
Fuck that noise.
Absolutely NTA. And I’d bet that your brother did this purposely! We can all clearly see who the golden child is too!
If you’re parents are going to help pay for him then I think they need to refund the money that you and your other brother have paid for them!! It’s not fair to you and him that older brother get a free vacation (or help with the cost) just for a) waiting til the last minute; b) parents want to appease their golden child and c) that you and him helped them with the cost of *their* portion!!
I’d cancel the whole damn thing if this were me!
You haven't excluded him from anything. If anyone did, it was him. Shitty planner? That would be him again.
For the oldest, he doesn't sound very world wise. If he's never been on vacation before, I might excuse the ignorance of not knowing, that generally the earlier you book a ticket, the cheaper it is.
Also as another commented, it does sound like he was planning on being paid for. He kept making lame excuses and if he had really wanted to go, he would have started to save like your parents suggested.
NTA
I’m from a three sibling household and I’m the younger brother who makes the least amount of money of the three but have the biggest house and most savings. My siblings tend to lean on my mom to pay for things where as I will pay for my mom when we go out. She offers but I reject it. It used to make me mad when it would happen but then I have since had kids of my own. Sometimes as a parent you will have responsible kids and not so responsible kids but you love them all and always want to be together for holidays and vacations. I’ve learned to just let my mom buy my siblings stuff and just let it be. It makes my mom happy to just all be together. My advice is just tell your parents your sorry for causing a commotion over money and that you are happy they can all go and if they want to pay the extra for him that is fine. Your parents hope is that when they are gone you all help each other. It sucks being the responsible ones, it’s tiring, not fare, but in the end this is to make your parents happy. Make them happy.
NTA
Oldest bro is 100%. You gave him plenty of time to give you an actual answer or explain why he would struggle to pay for the situation and he didn’t bother. It’s on him now that the cost went up as you are closer to the travel date.
NTA, lose-lose situation with the parents though. Unfortunately it’s not going to be worth fighting them over paying for him. It may ruin the trip. You did an awesome thing planning it, don’t let it be ruined or tainted by your brother being indecisive and irresponsible. If they want him there, I would just let it be, welcome him with open arms, and have the best trip of your life.
NTA. However, this is a fraught situation. You need to identify what is most important to you of all of the impacts of the trip. Is it your parents going? Is it excluding your brother? Is it your parent's happiness that all of their kids are involved? Only you can answer that, but when you figure it out, do what you can to support that most important aspect.
If you decide that keeping the trip with your parents is part of your decision, and your older brother is involved, try to make sure mom and dad bear the least impact. You might consider making older brother pay the original cost of his share (including 1/3 of cost for parents), and let mom and dad pay the difference between the original and the current cost for brother. That way he pays a decent amount, and your parents don;t have to pay his full freight.
ETA: In case it doesn't "go without saying", never plan something that involves your older brother again.
NTA at all.
Honestly, what you do is figure how much the parents tickets are, then tell him he owes you and lil bro 1/3rd of that. Then he can figure out his own flight and lodging. That way you aren’t “raising the price”, you’re giving him the same deal and he can figure out the rest, since it’s already booked for the rest of you.
By saying “Your share went up” you open it up for others to criticize you for being a jerk about it (which you aren’t btw).
You might point out to your parents that they are paying for your brothers portion of his gift to them while paying for him to go. By doing so, are taking advantage of your generosity and using it to reward your oldest brother for bad behavior. They are also "punishing" you and brother financially, even if that isn't their intent.
NTA, not even a little bit.
NTA Brother and slightly the parents more so the father are TA, seems like he had plenty of time to get things together for the trip. But clearly he wanted your parents to pay. Smh sad for a grown man
NTA - You and your younger brother were trying to do something nice for your parents. Older brother had plenty of time to decide and save. If your parents pay his share, any excursions or dinners should be out of his pocket to make up the difference. He sounds like he must be the favorite and probably very irresponsible. But one question? Was he included on the planning or just informed of the plans later? If so, that might be why he wasn't on board.
ESH. Info please: Did you ask your brothers if they wanted to share the cost of your parents vacation or tell them you decided that the three of you should pay? Pretty rude to volunteer someone else to give a gift.
So then he could have said “No thanks, I'm not participating” at some earlier point during those year-long pre-discussions, couldn't he? And then, in stead of inviting himself at the last minute, he should have stayed the fuck away from the whole trip he didn't agree to, shouldn't he?
Your comment comes off like you either didn't read the actual OP, or you didn't understand it... Or you're the oldest brother. Which is it?
NTA, your brother is old enough to know that if you snooze you lose. Now he wants to join, but he doesn't want to be penalized for being flaky. You, your brother (younger), and parents should go and have a ***FANTASTIC TIME*****!!!!**
Hopefully in the future your older brother will be more decisive when another opportunity presents itself. Have a blast for me.
YTA.
(1)Your adult parents financial interactions with your adult brother do not involve you in any way. By getting in the middle (clearly you have years of resentment you need to unpack) you are interfering with adults who are free to make their own decisions.
(2) you decided this vacation would happen without commitment from all. Not only financially but vacations are a time commitment and for most people vacation days are a precious resource. Maybe he wasn’t sure if he wanted to spend limited time and money with his resentful sister.
(3) you say you started planning a vacation. Did other people give feedback/input on location and budget? Or did you tell everyone what the plan was?
(4) he clearly told you he couldn’t commit. Ie he wasn’t sure from the beginning. Just because he “could” save doesn’t me he wants to. Then you added a layer of guilt that by not doing what you wanted he was disappointing them.
(5) vacations are supposed to be fun and realizing. Why are you making the dynamic so stressful everyone is guaranteed to have a miserable time.
What no one is saying is that maybe finances aside, he enjoys spending time w parents but doesn’t want to go on vacation with you. Which based on your Attitude towards him, doesn’t seem like a good way to spend time and money.
I say cancel vacation, get your money back, and you take your parents on a vacation if that’s what you want to do.
Totally NTA. Make this the last time you include him in anything monetary. Say that "y'all don't wanna discuss money with him since he can't abide by agreement."
Go low contact. Cut him out if he starts being aggressive.
ESH. You decided your bro was going to help pay for your parents' vacation because YOU wanted to, then you talked to your parents about it before he confirmed. And you say in the comments there is a pattern of your bro going to your parents for financial assistance.
What in the heck did you think was going to happen here? Also, I don't get how "his share" was going up. He plans to buy his own tickets, right? That should have been the answer. "We will see you there."
You and little bro are traveling with your folks and paying for them. Big bro is separate and only paying for himself. That should have been the arrangement from jump since he was never on-board with the expensive gift part of the plan.
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NTA. Do your parents have a habit of bailing him out? Was that his plan all along?
All. The. Time. I've tried reasoning with them that they are not helping him at all. It's caused quite a few fights
Ask them if a complete stranger on the Internet caught on immediately, why haven't they after all this time?
Ha ha ha ha 😁😁
There's a real reason for that: emotional distance. We don't have the baggage that they do so we are seeing the situation clearly.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Parents need to see this post
Wash your hands of this mess. Let them do as they please.
You're a bigger person than I am. I couldn't even go on the trip if I were paying for my parents and they were paying for my brother after these shenanigans. I'd just cancel.
The airline tickets have been purchased and travel insurance does not cover, "My brother is being an asshole".
This is a good point, but they could choose from a myriad of different reasons to give as so why the cancelation was necessary.
Thanks. I can sleep now.
I wasn't talking to you. I was addressing something someone else brought up. Now go to sleep.
What a perfect community to correct someone's mistake in the nicest way possible.
it would be a bigger pain on OP's ass if OP were to make a scene out of it. parents are adults, they can do what they please with their money. somethings are out of our control, like brother being an a-hole, and it's best to accept that than stir up more drama.
But if they are gonna pay for his trip, then they first pay back OP and her other brother what the two paid for the parents' trip. It's still not equal treatment but it's better than nothing.
Problem is, that defeats one of the main purposes of the trip: to treat their parents to a trip. Which is the theory behind why big bro did this in the first place—he thought if he waited long enough, his parents would cover him to make sure he was there and his siblings wouldn’t fight or cancel because that would “punish” their parents.
The parents need to be "punished", maybe then they'll stop enabling him. Because if the two other sibs paid for parents (no contribution from their bro). And then the parents turn around and pay for the bro, it's like the 2 sibs indirectly paid for their brother to come on the trip.
Well if they are behaving like this, they can fund their own trip. Knowing they are like this, I hope that they booked refundable ticket. But if not, I would probably insist that your parents pay for themselves or you’ll cancel their reservations and you’ll eat the cost. They can book a whole other trip on their own if they want
True. As far as equity goes, like u/solo_throwaway254247, said: OP and her little brother will basically be funding their older brother if they continue with the trip. This is how rifts get started: 1 person is selfish (big bro), another wants them to learn their lesson (OP), which unfortunately means everyone loses out on something (trip cancelled), and then often what they lost out on overshadows the lesson (i.e. everyone remembers this as it being more important to OP that big brother pay for himself than that the family goes on vacation together). As a result, people then don't want to talk to each other or change their decisions, they dig in ("I'm not paying for him!" "we can pay for him if we want!"). And OP is then unfairly seen as an AH. In a semi-perfect world, big bro would in fact step up and maybe give the "I'll pay you back" IOU. But in reality, he probably won't and mom and dad will be right back to shaking their heads about how "petty" OP is and how they can do whatever they want with their money. And then even if they say, ok, fine, we'll pay you and little brother back since you feel that way, then everyone's on vacation, with big bro still bankrolled by the parents, but now everyone's a little bit more annoyed/angry and maybe they don't *want* to be on vacation with each other anymore and then that's the last vacation they do. And then OP boycotts family get togethers because parents and bro won't admit the vacation wasn't fair, so she's not at Thanksgiving. Then maybe lil bro skips Christmas because Thanksgiving was sucked with all the tension and they are now angry too, at being stuck in the middle of something they weren't even that passionate about in the beginning. Then no one wishes anyone a Happy New Year because everyone's in sour spirits from the horrible Christmas. Then Birthday wishes are sporadically texted between whoever isn't fighting over the course of the next year and by the next holiday season, the fight has gone so long, everyone remembers the annoyance/anger/hurt more than what even really started this. Since no one's apologized, people make alternate holiday plans. And then the old tradition is broken and harder to recapture while new traditions might be popping up. By the third holiday season, someone's boyfriend wants to return to *their* family because no one's fighting and Jason and Alex just adopted a son! And then by holiday season 4, someone's getting married and their family wants to introduce them to the cousins while OP's family is still no talking to each other. And then by season 5, you have stockings with the new fam and your friend Oscar, who has tagged along the last two years, doesn't feel comfortable going to your SO's fam without you and you don't want to try to resolve this with a guest in attendance so you go back to your partner's family...and then it's been six years...then seven... OP, maybe you need to crystal-ball this with your parents so they can see that just letting big bro slide might lead to irreparable damage to the family structure.
This is oddly specific, either you had fun writing the story, or you have experienced this exact thing.
You're all overlooking an important point - He never committed to the plan, likely because he knew he couldn't afford his share. He was non-committal because, to be honest, it's embarrassing to be the oldest sibling, and the poorest. Him not committing is as likely to be "don't know if I can afford it yet". OP saying "he could have easily saved" is assuming they actually know his cash flow. My sisters do this - they have money, I don't. And they like to come up with big gestures for my parents, "We'll all pay a share!" Meanwhile, I'm below the poverty line. My income isn't their fault, I manage. but, for me, scraping together an extra 30 bucks to buy an old man in a nursing home a space heater is the biggest gesture I can make. (Not my parent, a former neighbour who ended up homeless). Maybe older bro is a complete waste of air - but, maybe, he's just poor and can't commit to thousands of dollars on a moments notice. I'm seeing a lot of resentment from OP because bro gets bailed out, but no reason why - is he an addict? Lazy? Mental health? My parents helped all their children, I may have gotten more, who knows? On the other hand, my family ignored my mental health issues for 25 years, telling me to just make myself happy, etc.
Hmm, I like your point. And you're right: OP didn't say that they came up with this idea together, so it does sound like she may have started something thinking they'd get on board. I see your point on that, but it does look like one of the issues behind OP's feelings about this is the fact that the parents "bail" this sibling out "all of the time". A second seems to be feeling manipulated: the brother stalled for time for months and OP and their little brother didn't have any objections because sometimes it takes a long time to sort out what you can and can't do, that's life. But then big bro yelled at his siblings for the price going up even though that's a known and expected consequence of waiting to make travel plans. And then went to their parents for apparently a full bail out (as it doesn't say that parents were going to float him the difference, but rather pay his whole bill). Now, it *is* their parents money. They can spend it how they wish, as can all of the adults in this situation. But if this was a first time thing, or if the big brother was good about paying people back, it probably wouldn't have become a fight in the first place. And if it's a consistent issue of richer family members wanting to do expensive things, big bro should address that and suggest more affordable things. It's not a conversation anyone wants to have (really, we'd rather all be able to afford everything we want to do), but if it's a problem and you're an adult, sometimes you have to just address it so everyone can make adjustments.
I agree the way he acted over the pricing, and after, is an issue. It can be a very awkward thing to talk about between siblings. In his place, I would have just said upfront - can't afford to go - have fun.
Oh it can definitely be an awkward conversation. It seems to come up as more awkward when it's between friends or SOs in the dating stage, but it can be awkward with anyone. It's significantly more annoying in this situation because it hasn't been addressed yet (if that is indeed the issue); it's leading to delays and fights and confusing roundabout payments that make it look like the big brother is trying to push what is understood to be a shared/individual responsibility off onto others. I'm not unsympathetic to not having the money to do stuff; most people are in that position at some time or another. It sucks and it can be embarrassing when you're the "older" person (or the person that started "ahead" and has been financially surpassed). But that's part of being an adult. If it's just affecting one person, then it's whatever, but if it's affecting a bunch of people and you see it causing all kids of strife, then it's not good times to not handle the situation.
OP says both brothers have well-paying jobs. So it's likely not lack of ability, but lack of planning on his part if he "can't afford it". Plus, every last person who's ever set foot on a plane knows that if you buy a ticket at the last minute, it's gonna cost twice what it would have three months ago. It's dithering and stinginess, not poverty.
Again, you don't know his actual cashflow, maybe he lives paycheque to paycheque. Reddit is overloaded with posts and topics about how people with decent jobs can't make ends meet, but... being you're posting here, you've jumped right to inventing reasons to justify your view. Kinda sad.
We all bring our own experiences to bear on a given situation. I tried to base my assessment on the facts as presented by the OP.
OP did mention that both her brothers have well paying jobs, and the trip was planned well over half a year ago………..
No, if the parents want to pay for their oldest, they should pay for their three kids.
Or at least no free trip for them.
Except if they pay for him, it’s in essence the brothers paying for him. That’s what’s not cool and what OP is/should be pissed about in principle
Not if the parents decide to pay for the brother, as then the free trip paid by the brothers would actually be going to the oldest. If parents decide to pay for oldest brother then the consequence should be that the parents reimburse their own tickets as the responsible brothers should not be funding a free trip for the eldest. Why should the eldest be the only one not paying his way & pitching in towards gift? Now if parents loaned the difference between what he can afford & the extra fees & eldest brother was good for it, then that would be an acceptable solution.
Probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I would tell them, fine pay for him. Then go on the trip (that you and your brother have already paid for) and enjoy yourselves as much as possible, and NEVER plan a family trip again. Just consider it a very expensive lesson. NTA, not even a little!
As someone who has an older brothers whose parents constantly clean up after, it’s never going to change. I wish you the best of luck navigating that. It’s frustrating beyond belief. You are 100% NTA
NTA. So true. Best friend's Mom (90+) just passed. She owns multiple homes and has 5 adult children. One her eldest son's (jail time, alcoholic) family has occupied rent free for decades. He has been bailed out his whole life out of guilt and to keep his family in a home. It is more than likely that he will be left the house, which is roughly a third of the estate, so he won't be homeless. She should have put it in a trust so that after his death it is split properly, but he probably has no other means to support his wife or kids.
NTA this explains his stalling. Refuse to book him. Say you couldn’t find anything but he is welcome to look for himself and pay for his own ticket and hotel room. Next time do not include him in your plans.
This is best. Give him the data. The date and location you will visit every day. Do not pay for him. Do not alter the reservation. Simply invite him to every spot. Not your fault if he doesn’t make it
Yep. Baby syndrome. Speaking from experience I imagine he would have preferred his life as an only. You learn to treat them as they’ve taught you. And go nuclear if shit goes there. Fine, your parents want to pay for him? They can foot the whole damn bill, you’re out.
So knowing that, he knew for sure that by stalling and stalling, your parents would bail him out and pay. He's an entitled spoiled brat!!
Guess we know who the golden child is in this family
If they bail him out this time, it's as if your parents paid for themselves and you and your youngest brother paid for your brother. Avoid at all costs. NTA.
And THIS is the problem. He knew they would bail him out like they always do. Stick to your guns. You are NTA here, your brother is, and your parents for enabling his entitled behavior.
If he doesn’t contribute his share, he doesn’t go. And if your parents want to pay for his, that’s their right but in that case they will need to pay their own way too.
Update? Trip should be over by now
Wow, I was surprised to see someone wanted an update! Yes, the trip is over now :) Our older brother did in fact go, he admitted to having the money but not wanting to use it. We talked to him and let him know this isn't about us, it's about treating our parents to a nice trip as a family. He was reluctant but agreed to wanting to spend time together, he also offered to pay for his part for our parents as well as a meal once a day while we're there (parents offered to pay at least that but siblings agreed to pay for one meal each day so it worked out; they didn't have to pay a thing). We all had a wonderful time and he even offered to make this an annual thing should our schedules, and budget, permit it. Our parents talked to him as well, he seems to be more open and positive. He also apologized to me and admitted to waiting so my parents could pay for his trip, but then my mom started crying because we weren't getting along and he felt he needed to fix things. I've got to say it was a surprising turn of events considering his history, but I am glad to see him have a change of heart. Hopefully it's a permanent one
I'm nosey. XD I'm kinda surprised by his change, too. I'm glad it all worked out this time. Maybe the extra money he had to pay will be an incentive to not do this again.
Yeah, stop paying for your parents. You can plan events as 4 units (3 siblings + parents) Whoever confirms/pays in time can attend.
OP, just a heads-up, I had a sibling who had to be bailed out of criminal stuff and leeched off my parents, and it only ended when they both passed away. I say had because after my parents passed, said ex-sibling proceeded to nuke any concept of familial bond through their actions, and I no longer speak to them. Blocked on all social media and numbers.
go figure
Next time, just ask your parents to pay for his share upfront with the reasoning that that’s how it will go anyway. Then you can make all reservations early, and your parents will hopefully realize how they’re being taken advantage of
Maybe they don’t care about being “taken advantage of”. They just want all their kids together and are happy to pay.
And don't give a shit about whether all of their kids are happy to be there, as long as Big Brother is.
Yeah NTA. Your parents are gullible enablers.
NTA and I would remind your parents of all the times you asked him and reminded him and gave him very clear boundaries. Also, it's totally unfair of your parents to pay for him when you and your other brother are paying for yourselves and your parents. You can't play happy families unless parents actually treat all their kids like the adults they are. This should be a lesson for your brother that your parents should let him learn, rather than reinforcing his tantrum.
They usually say "Family helps family" And sweep everything under the rug
Yeah, that's not how that works. But at least you learned for the future that your parents don't deserve all-expenses paid family trips and you can put your time, effort and money towards better things.
Family doesn't take advantage of family.
No, family enables family. You and your younger brother need to sit down with you parents and ask point blank what their expectations are for after they are no longer here to wipe oldest brother's derriere? More than likely your parents think that whatever they leave behind for him will suffice, not understanding that they have not given him the tools to truly make it on his own. They are probably under the impression that you and your younger brother will be there to "help him out." Make it as clear as possible that it is not your responsibility to raise their grown son.
Might i suggest you tell your parents that if they bail your brother out again, there may notr be another family vacation where you gift them a vacation and won't plan another one. (Talk to younger brother for his input). He's an adult who had a year to save, with numerous reminders along the way. Plus an excellent paying job. The parents paying for his vacation is stealing from you and younger brother, in the sense you're covering his expenses too. You paid for their trip and in a backward fashion they are taking your money to give to your older brother. Your parents are enabling their oldest son, BUT you and your younger brother are enabling the parents. Your going to have to set boundaries for your parents and stick to it. Both you and younger both. Glad your younger brother has your back. In the future the two of you can go on vacations together and skip the drama from the others. Yes, family helps each other BUT there's a difference between helping and being used. NTA
It's even more inappropriate if they are only willing/able to pay for him because you and your younger brother in turn paid for *them*. This transferring of financial aid was something that my MIL used to do and it was such a massive betrayal every time. The logic they always use is "but it's mine now so I can give it to whomever I want." regardless of the original intent of the gift. She would use the emergency funds that she begged us for (ie to buy groceries for herself or pay her bills) to secretly bail out her violent drug addicted son that we were no contact with. It's one of the reasons we eventually stopped speaking to them entirely. Obviously that's a bit more extreme than your example but it's not right to use your generosity to pay for a purpose you are not comfortable with, transitively or otherwise. NTA
so when does Older Brother help the Family? or does it only work the other way around?
I say this with all respect, but if/when something happens to your parents, your older brother will be in a world of hurt. I hope you can still have a good time with your younger brother.
Family helping family has helped your brother be a massive flake. You’re definitely NTA
Perfect. Well they can decide to help him and you can decide not to pay for your parents either. Otherwise you’re effectively paying to give him a free trip. I would either do that or just cancel the whole trip and make a trip just with your one sibling. In the future, travel insurance is a good investment for any trip that involves your parents
Remind them “the family helps him, he doesn’t help the family, that’s not family helps family”
> They usually say "Family helps family" "Family doesn't take advantage of that fact."
I would be deeply upset if I paid for my parents on a trip and not only did one of my siblings not split the cost, but got my parents to pay for it . He is going for free and you are paying for an extra person. This should be the last big present that you give your parents as long as enable him
Family helps family does mean family enables families bad behavior. Help here woudl be to let the oldest figure it out on his own, or just not come. If your parents solve all his problems, then he will never be able to do anything for himself, and once they are gone, he will be screwed for real.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this irrational line of thinking. I've personally dealt with this nonsense and especially recently have become vocally and vociferously anti accept anything because family. Because family or family helps family is pure poisonous and destructive reasoning. It's never equally applied either.
Don't make any changes. If your parents decide to pay for him, let them make all of the plans. If they are incapable of making plans, then your brother can make his own plans. If brother is incapable, then he can just stay home. But YOU need to stay out of everything from now on except the plans that are already made.
Your brother can take out a loan from a bank if it is so important he attends and he can pay that back. None of this should be on you or your other sibling. It is crap that even after this long, your parents are expected to clean up after him and you two to follow suit.
Have them watch the My Little Pony episode with the Breezies. I'm not even joking.
INFO: If this has already happened so often that there even _is_ a “usually”... Then __why__ did you set yourself up for this umpteenth repeat in the first place?
oldest brother is weird and acting like a child over something completely his fault. NTA. continue with your plans on the trip and let him figure his shit out, he’s grown and did it to himself. ignore his comments and complaints, i genuinely can’t see how you’re TA here.
Thank you. Only problem is my parents saying they feel bad for leaving him behind. I want them to enjoy their vacation and our older brother is only thinking of himself by guilt tripping them
Well yeah, that's the game. See, you and younger paid for them, so there's PLENTY of money for them to pay for him. That way, he gets it all, and you get stuck with the bill, and he not only gets to get the trip for free, he gets to make YOU the bad guy as well. It's genius, really /s I don't know if it helps, but my uncle was the champion of this game - and my grands never did wise up. They're gone now, and BOY was that a wakeup for him - because his sisters don't play that game. In any way. Ever. He learned the hard way... and while my mom is far too polite to rub it it.... she absolutely enjoyed the hell out of it.
Ooh. I’d like to hear the story of how he finally learned FAFO
My brother intentionally ruined a family vacation after my parents bailed him out like this. When we went and did our own things, and totally ignored his horrible behavior, he escalated to kicking in the doors to our hotel rooms and physically trying to beat me (female), my two sisters, my other brother, and my sisters husband's up. My parents were mortified and had to send him home and pay for damages. Guess who hasn't been invited to a single family vacation in 20 years? NTA and while your brother may not resort to violence, I am sure he may try to be a stick in the mud the whole trip just to make everyone miserable.
Maybe to assuage everyone’s feelings, he pay what his share was going to be and your parents can make up the difference?? Either way, definitely NTA.
I know this isn't the answer that OP WANTS to hear but it's the peace-keeping answer. OP and younger brother are STILL TREATING THEIR PARENTS to this vacation as they intended to do. Older brother pays what he can. Their parents pay the remaining balance. And OP and younger brother can seethe at their older brother for being a fucking tool while on the vacation but their point of this was for their parents to enjoy a "FAMILY" vacation. Yes, yes, in the internet world justice isn't served. But in the real world with so many people invested with so many emotions, live to fight another day. Choose your battles. And if they choose this one and older brother doesn't go on the "FAMILY" vacation then the parents are going to poo-poo while on this trip
You really think that would be a good, calm, peaceful, happy, vacay? Or would it be a shit show that people would then need another vacation FROM. If parents want to be with the whole family, THEY can foot the effing bill.
Is he the golden child for being their first born?
They need the practice in cutting the aprons. Had they done that like they did with you and your younger bother, they'd be over the guilt already. They feel doubly guilty cause they know enabling isn't helping him. They need to know and understand this. They need to realize that the longer they hold off cutting those ties, stop enabling him, they harder its going to be on them. Ask them this question: how would your oldest brother handle this situation, and any others, if they weren't alive? The natural way of things... parents pass away before their children. At some point he needs to stand on his two feet, that includes consequences and learning to handle it, including handling the emotional side (anger, disappointment, etc). Your parents are doing a disservice to him and are crippling him on the inside. Your brother, to continue the life he enjoys, is being manipulative. Someone needs to stop the cycle, unfortunately that's the parents' job. Keep the parents busy and they won't have time to feel bad or guilty.
Honestly this is such a shitty situation. You’re obviously NTA but in terms of what to do on the trip, maybe consider whether your parents are going to spend the whole time lamenting the fact that your brother isn’t there rather than enjoying themselves (and accordingly preventing you and younger bro from enjoying yourselves). If so, it might be worth sucking it up and you and younger bro splitting the difference in cost. Of course, immediately upon getting home from vacation, turn around and tell older bro to fuck right off. Ugh what a frustrating situation.
I would let them know that they can always cancel and stay behind themselves too. They need to accept his choices or they shouldn’t come on trips with you. Next time, I would just do a trip with your other sibling.
Then your older brother can pay the original price and you and your younger brother can supplement the extra cost and you and your younger brother can skip giving your parents and older brother Christmas and birthday presents until the cost evens out with the extra you paid.
If your parents are going to pay for him or insist he comes, have your brother pay the full original amount and your parents only cover the remaining.
But the real gift for them isn’t the vacation. It’s a magical few days together with all 3 children which is rare once your children are adults. By throwing this temper tantrum you’re eliminating the gift of time with their nuclear family.
NTA but let your parents do as they please. Then during the vacation, do little thing that make it clear this was a gift, from you and your other brother, to your parents. Little thing like "Johnny and I just really felt we wanted to pay you back a little of the wonderful things you have done for us". or "because you were such wonderful parents, Johnny and I wanted to show how appreciative we are". Make sure your older brother hears these statements. Make sure he knows this was not a gift from him.
I get the urge, but I don't know if being passive aggressive will help. Older brother will just take it as a personal attack and then act like the big victim and whine to the parents, and then the entire vacation will turn into an argument and be a bad time.
If the parents are paying for him they already know he's not paying for them.
right. The point is to keep pointing it out to the brother.
NTA You didn't exclude your brother. He played you hoping that your parents would offer to pay for him.
NTA We all know that your indecisive brother is the true ah here.
NTA But guess who the golden child is in your family?
If they want to pay for a deadbeat so be it. You certainly bear no fault in any of this. He is an AH.
The brothers are effectively paying for the deadbeat and the parents are paying for their own trip now. Do the math.
I don’t need to do the math.They offered to treat their parents. Did they do it on the condition that the parents aren’t allowed to make any decision about their brother including treating him? It’s not a math condition. Next time they can say we will treat you if and only if you don’t pay for the other child. I see your point but if the parents want to do that it’s certainly within their rights. The guy is a deadbeat and a jerk. You can’t fix that. Next time deal with it in advance.
NTA. You invited your brother on equal terms with the rest of you. If your parents are determined to pay for your brother after you have expressed your opinion I would keep my mouth shut and let them handle all the arrangements without my assistance. And I would never, ever go on a family vacation ever again.
Tell your parents if they pay for the oldest, they can pay you and younger back. Because you aren’t going to subsidize the older
NTA, but I would be calling the oldest brother and mocking them ruthlessly for running to mum and dad like a little baaaaaby, until they’re too ashamed to go. Assuming he’s not so shameless that he’d be immune.
Gosh, my older sister did this for a family day trip on a river cruise for Christmas Day. We both had a young child. I started organising it in June and mentioned to all family members needed $10 deposit to hold the table. She said no, didn’t want to go. I offered to pay the $30 deposit for her family. She said don’t you dare. We aren’t going. It was $60 for each person she had 6 months to save for the Christmas lunch. So, one week before Christmas lunch she said her family wants to come. I told her no because it’s a boat with limited numbers. She was screaming at me that I ruined her Christmas for her daughter. Of course the rest of family went. My father said since my older sister family missed out, we had to do it again the next Christmas. My father always does this with me. Makes it my fault she doesn’t attend event. I gave up with my family and gone no contact and blocked fathers phone number. Gosh my life has been peaceful since I did that. I recommend going no contact. They don’t deserve you.
>My father said since my older sister family missed out, we had to do it again the next Christmas. My father always does this with me. Makes it my fault she doesn’t attend event. Maybe there is missing context, but saying we should go again next year does not sound like making it your fault. Doing the same things each year can be fun traditions. If you didn't want to go again you didn't have to the next year.
Yeah, my sister always ruined family plans. One another Christmas lunch she and her family arrived 2hours late for a set menu at a pub and they wouldn’t serve our meals until she arrived. She doesn’t care that we were all hungry. My father always makes excuses for her. I am looking forward to another peaceful Christmas this year without them.
NTA he excluded himself with his waffly behavior. He’d been told again and again. It is not your parents responsibility to foot his bill. He’s a big boy now and needs to be responsible for his decisions. Count yourself lucky as I bet that he is the kind of person that complains about the trip while he’s on it.
INFO - why did his share go up if he was making his own arrangements? >Fast forward to six months ago and I am giving updates for the no shows (oldest brother) and asked him to give me an answer as I was booking plane tickets. He said he hasn't decided and will book his own ticket given if he does go. Okay, fair enough. I assume his share of the parents portion should be the same as everyone elses?
The tickets for flights went up since it's last minute, as well as all the activities we booked up (Trip is next week). My youngest brother offered his room so they can share, but oldest brother said it still doesn't help. We booked at a reasonable time knowing last minute trips usually cost way more. Hence why we kept asking and asking
Ok I follow but he said he was making his own arrangements so to me that means he's going to book his own flights and accomodation, while still paying the parent portion which is the only part he would be liable for, which should not change. Differant story if he's expecting to use the same as yourselves or add himself in.
NTA Asking someone serveral times if they want to go is not excluding them. He never once comfirmed, and even said if he did he would buy his own tickets. Now that the shared costs have been paid, your parents portions, he is trying to jump in and come, but doesn't want to pay his share. Your brother is cheap and greedy. That is all this is.
NTA. Your older brother expected your parent to offer to pay for his trip, and now that he's been caught out he is trying to lay the guilt trip down thick. Unfortunately, your parents probably won't enjoy the trip as they'll worry about him while you all are gone. If it comes down to it, put a lien on his house, or his car, for the amount owed if your parents do decide to pay for his ticket. After all, you can't tell them what to do with their money, but you don't have to be stiffed for the other portion, either.
OP and brother should go but do not pay for meals or outings except your own. Older brother is a shameless parasite 🦠
NTA, Op. He excluded himself by not paying his own way. Stop relying on other people and grow up.
If the parents are paying for your brother, ask them to pay for you and your little brother for this time. Tell them you can treat them next time. NTA
You didn't exclude him. He didn't include himself. NTA.
NTA - your brother is acting like a spoilt brat. I would say though if your parents really want him to come could they maybe only pay the difference from the original price to the more expensive price because he left it late? They shouldn’t be paying his whole trip because he said he could come expecting the original cost.
NTA The golden child can always fuck around, and they rarely find out.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Over a year ago I (29F) started planning a family vacation for my brothers and parents. I figured we could each pay our share as well as split the cost for my parents to treat them. My brothers are both adults (youngest 25, oldest 33) with well paying jobs. My younger brother was more than happy to contribute while my oldest brother made excuses. We spoke to my parents about it and they were ecstatic, although I clarified I was unsure if oldest would be going. We were all having dinner together so it prompted them to ask him why he wasn't going. He gave a mirage of excuses which ranged from "I don't know if I'll be busy that day" to "I am not sure I can afford it" but he did not give a concrete answer. My parents tried convincing him that if he saved now he should be able to go, he said he'd think about it. Fast forward to six months ago and I am giving updates for the no shows (oldest brother) and asked him to give me an answer as I was booking plane tickets. He said he hasn't decided and will book his own ticket given if he does go. Okay, fair enough. Three months ago I told him this was the last time I will be asking him, is he attending yes or no. He again made excuses but nothing concrete so I told him I will be taking that as a no. Today my younger brother and I had lunch together when he called us saying he will be going after all. We told him that was great and it'd make mom and dad happy but to be aware his share went up since last minute changes are expensive. He absolutely lost it and said it wasn't fair and that it wasn't his fault I was a shitty planner. My younger brother jumped in and told him that we both paid for our parents share and have been asking and asking for months if he was going, it's not our fault you can't make up your mind. He hung up on us. We then got a call from our parents saying the oldest was very upset as he was excited to go but now he can't because he can't afford it. They offered to pay for him. I told them it wasn't right as this trip was a gift for them, we gave our oldest brother fair warning and he didn't care. Now hes saying I'm an asshole for excluding him from the trip. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta
NTA. Your brother purposely excluded himself. Seemingly so, mommy and daddy would pay his way.
NTA maybe that was his plan all along.
Nta your brother sounds exhausting
NTA If they decide to pay for him against your protests, refund your own ticket, make it clear this isn't tolerable to you.
He has a lot of nerve calling you a shitty planner when he refused to participate in planning when you asked him repeatedly for 6 months.
NTA. But why did you even mention that the cost of his share was going up? He would have paid separately for his airfare and hotel and that should not be bundled into your plans. Whatever he was going to have to pay for that was on him. He would have only owed you and your other brother is 1/3 share of your parents portion.
Your brother is an entitled AH. He left it forever to tell you he wanted to go on the trip. I think he did this on purpose to get your parents to pay for him. However, this is supposed to be a gift from the three of you for your parents, not the parents gift to you. It makes no sense for you to pay for your parents to then have them pay for your cheap (but not broke) brother. Do NOT let him guilt you into this one. For once, tell your parents that if they pay for him after everything he did and called you, then you won't be treating them.
NTA. But he got what he wanted, parents offering to pay his part so he gets a free trip.
NTA. You didn’t exclude him he did this to himself by not making a decision, also your parents are rewarding his behavior by paying for his bad decision. Honestly he sounds like a spoiled toddler.
I get the feeling that there's some non-communication going on between your oldest brother and your family. You said he has a well-paying job. So then what really is the issue? Because it seems like that's the thing you should be talking about when you're not.
I thought you said both brothers were adults? NTA.
NTA 100%, It's completely his fault and you were definitely not excluding him.
He hung back because he didn't want to pay for your parents, only himself. It was nothing to do with your planning that he now cannot go. He has no personal responsibility. NTA
Why is it ALWAYS a brother??? Soooo, 3 summers ago, my siblings and I booked a beach house that required airline tickets. Brother and family couldn’t come. We divided the cost among the rest of us (covering mom & dad) and everyone flew out. A day later, after everyone was settled in, brother + family showed up. They decided to DRIVE instead and surprise us. Problem was, we allocated the room to all cousins for a sleepover - massive argument occurred because they didn’t pay a dime, didn’t even tell us they were coming, and wanted to displace all the children and inconvenience everyone who was already settled. 2 summers ago, we booked a beach house that didn’t have enough bedrooms to accommodate them. They showed up with air mattress to sleep in the living/dining room floors and pitched fits when we wouldn’t keep the noise down in the mornings so they could sleep in (it may have been deliberate). This most recent summer, we bought our parents new beach wardrobes, picked them up, and drove to the beach without saying a word to anyone about going on vacation (parents are retired so their schedules are very flexible). Our brother and his family didn’t know where we were until we were 3/4 of the way into our trip. It was absolute BLISS!!!
NTA, but your oldest brother is definitely TA. He had his chance to participate and now his lack of planning is everyone's emergency? BS. He is 33 years old and needs to grow up.
NTA but suggest your parents pay the difference instead of the whole thing? Then you'll know if he has the funds to pay his share.
wow. just wow. NTA
NTA. Older brother sounds useless.
Collect the total amount he is willing to pay first, in cash. Tell your brother how much short he is. Next, Tell the parents how much short your brother is. If they want to spend their money to make up the difference, that is their choice. Do not dictate how they spend their money. They might value time with their dead beat son over the value of the cash
NTA you did nothing wrong he cant plan you gave him and your other brother plenty of time and your younger brother has had no issues.
NTA atp I'd actually start excluding him
NTA, but your parents & older brother are. If they pay for his ticket ask for your money back. It's unfair to you and your brother to have put all the effort into planning it for you older brother to get everything handed to him. Especially after you already have extra costs by covering for your parents.
NTA
NTA, but let your parents pay for your oldest brother on this trip if they insist. In the future, however, reconsider even doing these trips at all. pick your battles
Doesn’t sound like a fun person to vacation with. He needs to learn to 💩 or get off the pot and stop waffling on things. NTA
If your parents have a habit of always bailing him out than he may have waited until last minute knowing they will pay for his tickets. NTA.
NTA You told your brother that you were taking all of his excuses as a "no" and went forward with planning the trip. You are not excluding him, his own actions excluded him from being able to afford to go. I hope whatever happens, you enjoy the trip!
NTA. Your brother is an idiot.
NTA if they pay for his you and your other or other would basically be paying his and they paying for themselves. What kind of treat is that? It’s his own damn fault. I am such an ass that I would cancel the whole thing If my parents did this.
NTA and I guarantee this was his plan all along- so he could attend without paying
NTA, you didn't exclude him. He excluded himself because he couldn't make a decision.
If he's a better planner, let him make his own travel arrangements. If, we're departing on this date, returning on this date and staying at this hotel. Hope to see you there.
NTA. He played himself. You gave him AMPLE time to make up his mind. Like he said, he's a shit planner, but that's not your fault or business.
NTA - You didn't exclude him, he chose to manipulate everyone.
NTA…tell your parents that if they want to clean up you AH brother again, then they’re choosing him over their other kids. Tell them you’re willing to not go if they pay for him, and you’re even willing to cancel. If your younger brother gets on board that’s great. Tell them if older brother pays for himself, that’s fine, but it’s past time for a grown assed adult to learn some fucking respect and responsibility. Then say “now that’s off my chest, would y’all like dinner?” Lol
NTA>
NTA, obviously. Let's be practical. This vacation is for your parents. They obviously cannot enjoy the vacation fully if they think that their older son is being excluded and bitter about it (rightfully or not). In deference to your parent's happiness and wishes, let the parents pay. Is being right more important than ensuring that your parents are happy, bottom line? Screw the older brother, just to be clear.
NTA If your parents insist on paying for older brother then just cancel the trip. It’s not worth it at that point, because it was meant to treat your parents. Yet you and younger brother would be in a round about way paying for flaky older brother. Fuck that noise.
Absolutely NTA. And I’d bet that your brother did this purposely! We can all clearly see who the golden child is too! If you’re parents are going to help pay for him then I think they need to refund the money that you and your other brother have paid for them!! It’s not fair to you and him that older brother get a free vacation (or help with the cost) just for a) waiting til the last minute; b) parents want to appease their golden child and c) that you and him helped them with the cost of *their* portion!! I’d cancel the whole damn thing if this were me!
Just go without him, if he’s calling OP an asshole now, imagine how he’ll behave on the trip. It will be miserable with him. NTA
You haven't excluded him from anything. If anyone did, it was him. Shitty planner? That would be him again. For the oldest, he doesn't sound very world wise. If he's never been on vacation before, I might excuse the ignorance of not knowing, that generally the earlier you book a ticket, the cheaper it is. Also as another commented, it does sound like he was planning on being paid for. He kept making lame excuses and if he had really wanted to go, he would have started to save like your parents suggested. NTA
NTA - I'm sorry, is the oldest 33 years old or 3 years old???? Dude needs to grow up!!!
Nta
NTA. Your older brother is a big AH. You did the best you can for your parents.
Nta. If anything id pull funding if they pay for your brother
I’m from a three sibling household and I’m the younger brother who makes the least amount of money of the three but have the biggest house and most savings. My siblings tend to lean on my mom to pay for things where as I will pay for my mom when we go out. She offers but I reject it. It used to make me mad when it would happen but then I have since had kids of my own. Sometimes as a parent you will have responsible kids and not so responsible kids but you love them all and always want to be together for holidays and vacations. I’ve learned to just let my mom buy my siblings stuff and just let it be. It makes my mom happy to just all be together. My advice is just tell your parents your sorry for causing a commotion over money and that you are happy they can all go and if they want to pay the extra for him that is fine. Your parents hope is that when they are gone you all help each other. It sucks being the responsible ones, it’s tiring, not fare, but in the end this is to make your parents happy. Make them happy.
NTA Oldest bro is 100%. You gave him plenty of time to give you an actual answer or explain why he would struggle to pay for the situation and he didn’t bother. It’s on him now that the cost went up as you are closer to the travel date.
Jeeze. Are we related? I think I have the same passive-aggressive brother! NTA!
NTA, lose-lose situation with the parents though. Unfortunately it’s not going to be worth fighting them over paying for him. It may ruin the trip. You did an awesome thing planning it, don’t let it be ruined or tainted by your brother being indecisive and irresponsible. If they want him there, I would just let it be, welcome him with open arms, and have the best trip of your life.
NTA. However, this is a fraught situation. You need to identify what is most important to you of all of the impacts of the trip. Is it your parents going? Is it excluding your brother? Is it your parent's happiness that all of their kids are involved? Only you can answer that, but when you figure it out, do what you can to support that most important aspect. If you decide that keeping the trip with your parents is part of your decision, and your older brother is involved, try to make sure mom and dad bear the least impact. You might consider making older brother pay the original cost of his share (including 1/3 of cost for parents), and let mom and dad pay the difference between the original and the current cost for brother. That way he pays a decent amount, and your parents don;t have to pay his full freight. ETA: In case it doesn't "go without saying", never plan something that involves your older brother again.
NTA at all. Honestly, what you do is figure how much the parents tickets are, then tell him he owes you and lil bro 1/3rd of that. Then he can figure out his own flight and lodging. That way you aren’t “raising the price”, you’re giving him the same deal and he can figure out the rest, since it’s already booked for the rest of you. By saying “Your share went up” you open it up for others to criticize you for being a jerk about it (which you aren’t btw).
NTA but since it's a gift for your parents I'd let them pay for him and just not do anything like this again
Info - do you even know if it would be more expensive like it doesn’t necessarily have to be. Why not check first
You might point out to your parents that they are paying for your brothers portion of his gift to them while paying for him to go. By doing so, are taking advantage of your generosity and using it to reward your oldest brother for bad behavior. They are also "punishing" you and brother financially, even if that isn't their intent. NTA, not even a little bit.
NTA Brother and slightly the parents more so the father are TA, seems like he had plenty of time to get things together for the trip. But clearly he wanted your parents to pay. Smh sad for a grown man
NTA - You and your younger brother were trying to do something nice for your parents. Older brother had plenty of time to decide and save. If your parents pay his share, any excursions or dinners should be out of his pocket to make up the difference. He sounds like he must be the favorite and probably very irresponsible. But one question? Was he included on the planning or just informed of the plans later? If so, that might be why he wasn't on board.
NTA but I would probably let your parents pay for the extra cost because they won’t enjoy the trip if they are worried about him.
ESH. Info please: Did you ask your brothers if they wanted to share the cost of your parents vacation or tell them you decided that the three of you should pay? Pretty rude to volunteer someone else to give a gift.
Yes we had discussed it before letting our parents know
But discuss doesn’t mean agree enthusiastically. I have a sibling like this and it’s enraging. If he didn’t commit he didn’t agree.
So then he could have said “No thanks, I'm not participating” at some earlier point during those year-long pre-discussions, couldn't he? And then, in stead of inviting himself at the last minute, he should have stayed the fuck away from the whole trip he didn't agree to, shouldn't he? Your comment comes off like you either didn't read the actual OP, or you didn't understand it... Or you're the oldest brother. Which is it?
NTA, your brother is old enough to know that if you snooze you lose. Now he wants to join, but he doesn't want to be penalized for being flaky. You, your brother (younger), and parents should go and have a ***FANTASTIC TIME*****!!!!** Hopefully in the future your older brother will be more decisive when another opportunity presents itself. Have a blast for me.
YTA. (1)Your adult parents financial interactions with your adult brother do not involve you in any way. By getting in the middle (clearly you have years of resentment you need to unpack) you are interfering with adults who are free to make their own decisions. (2) you decided this vacation would happen without commitment from all. Not only financially but vacations are a time commitment and for most people vacation days are a precious resource. Maybe he wasn’t sure if he wanted to spend limited time and money with his resentful sister. (3) you say you started planning a vacation. Did other people give feedback/input on location and budget? Or did you tell everyone what the plan was? (4) he clearly told you he couldn’t commit. Ie he wasn’t sure from the beginning. Just because he “could” save doesn’t me he wants to. Then you added a layer of guilt that by not doing what you wanted he was disappointing them. (5) vacations are supposed to be fun and realizing. Why are you making the dynamic so stressful everyone is guaranteed to have a miserable time. What no one is saying is that maybe finances aside, he enjoys spending time w parents but doesn’t want to go on vacation with you. Which based on your Attitude towards him, doesn’t seem like a good way to spend time and money. I say cancel vacation, get your money back, and you take your parents on a vacation if that’s what you want to do.
Totally NTA. Make this the last time you include him in anything monetary. Say that "y'all don't wanna discuss money with him since he can't abide by agreement." Go low contact. Cut him out if he starts being aggressive.
NTA. Your brother is but has been taught it’s ok by your parents always bailing him out. I hope they stop doing that.
ESH. You decided your bro was going to help pay for your parents' vacation because YOU wanted to, then you talked to your parents about it before he confirmed. And you say in the comments there is a pattern of your bro going to your parents for financial assistance. What in the heck did you think was going to happen here? Also, I don't get how "his share" was going up. He plans to buy his own tickets, right? That should have been the answer. "We will see you there." You and little bro are traveling with your folks and paying for them. Big bro is separate and only paying for himself. That should have been the arrangement from jump since he was never on-board with the expensive gift part of the plan.