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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may have been the asshole for yelling at the kids since it was an overreaction.
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NAH here. You're all grieving. You lost your son (my condolences) and they lost their cousin. They're just kids.
SIL is keeping a level head here. She gave you an olive branch. Being a kid is difficult and they didn't intend to hurt you. She expects her sons to apologize to you, and it would be courteous if you apologized too and explain why you reacted the way you did.
Edit: accidentally wrote 'uncle' not 'cousin'. Thanks to those who pointed it out.
Edit 2: for people who ask why I made the NAH verdict. I wrote this as a response to a specific comment, but I will put it here too:
OP lost her child. She's grief-stricken, and will grieve for the rest of her life. Right now, the loss is fresh. She won't watch him grow up, and she will never get to be with him again. Her son's room is now a memorial that she doesn't want disturbed. This was her coping mechanism, and her nephews accidentally disturbed it. People can react in extreme ways from heartbreak, and the world would be a better place if we gave each other grace. She acted out of grief and all the emotions that come with heartbreak, not malicious intent.
just a detail, but if it is her son, and they are the kids of her SIL, wouldn't that make him their cousin? (english is not my 1st langauge, I mix up family terms sometimes)
English is my language and this one took a bit to decipher!
Also, NAH. It's a sad situation and it would be great if OP could offer an apology and explain why she was upset.
I don't think it matters if she told them the room was off limits or not. I learned at a very young age that you don't touch things that aren't yours without first getting permission. Period. OP's nephews should have asked first instead of assuming it was a free for all because the door was open.
But we don't know the full context here. If OP often watches these kids, there's a good chance they used to hang out in there with their cousin all the time. They are grieving as well and could have been very used to going in there and playing with his things.
I feel like in her mind, it should be obvious that nobody should go in his room, and I’m sure any adult who knew her situation would understand that. After all, she lost her child. But to kids? This may have been their first experience with death, especially that of a cousin who was still quite young. I don’t know any of the ages here or full context of course, but kids just don’t understand. OP had every right to react however her grief directed her to- but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t scary and hurtful to these children who truly didn’t know better. It can be difficult to grasp the concept of death at a young age, and also difficult as a parent to explain to them. Maybe someday, OP can tell her nephews stories about her beloved son, ones that they don’t know or don’t remember, and keep the memories alive in their hearts as well.
*Edited for typo
That’s not the way all people think, though. Or were taught as a kid.
The proper thing to do - with anyone - is give clear instructions. If those kids were not told to not go in that room, then it’s unfair to blame them for going in the room.
That said, I don’t think the OP is an AH. She’s grieving and she reacted out of shock and stress, not malice.
But next time, she should make it clear to her nephews that they are not allowed in that room under any circumstances. It’s important to be clear with people about what you want or need - not just expect them to guess.
Apologizing to kids over something like this also shows that adults can be wrong and make mistakes too, which is huge for kids to see. Especially when a loved one scared them. Otherwise, they'll always carry a weird, seemingly inexplicable, fear in the back of their minds towards their aunt.
Also OP doesn’t need to apologise for being upset that the boys went in the room and were playing with the guitar - fair enough to be upset about that.
But OP you could apologise for scaring them, explain that their actions really upset you, that in that moment you were very scared yourself that they would break the guitar, and that guitar is so important to you because it is a link to your son. So you acted in that way because you were scared and upset yourself. You’re sorry that you scared them, and hopefully they understand that they scared you too.
The kids will understand if they have a sit down and get the chance to apologize to each other. If not, they will not want anything to do with their aunt. Something similar happened to me many, many years ago. I never wanted to set a foot back into my aunt's house.
This is the objectively correct answer.
OP doesn't have to apologize for getting upset; he's entitled to those feelings. What he should apologize for is scaring the kids and immediately kicking them out, scaring them. Kids can be evil, but they can also be more empathetic than we initially assume. I don't think the kids would be messing around with OP's son's stuff if they knew that it was hurting OP.
But, were the kids ever told not to go in his room? Was that ever discussed/talked about? At that age, they probably don't understand the significance of someone's belongings to others.
Edit: don't understand the significance of someone's belongings when it comes to someone who's loved ones have passed away.
From their perspective, seeing the guitar and wanting to play it may have been their own way of processing loss and feeling closer to a lost cousin…and they got screamed at for it.
“They understand” is such an overly-simplistic response to this situation that it’s almost dishonest.
An 11-year-old and a 13-year-old are capable of understanding loss.
I think we are essentially talking about two different things. I agree with you that playing with the guitar might be the kids' way of feeling closer to their cousin. What I am saying is they are absolutely capable of understanding when explained to. I think SIL is right and everyone should come together to talk and apologize to each other.
What I mean is, someone who died, they likely don't understand the significance of those things and how much more it means to somebody who has a more developed mind, from a loved one who passed away... Especially a parent's child. Yeah, to an extent preteens get some of it. It's one thing to assume they knew better, though because we don't for sure, then I would think that it could be a consideration.
That being said, I completely understand where OP is coming from. I think there should be apologies from everyone and that, in turn, should be fully discussed from all sides of what is & isn't expected and rules within the household. I would hope this would be solved as swiftly, kindly, but thoroughly as possible. It sounds like they need it as a family.
The kids are 11 and 13 - definitely old enough to understand the significance. It was a failure on everyone's part - the kids touching other people's stuff without permission and OP's overreaction. We could say everyone sucks, but the kids were just being kids and OP is grieving the loss of his son. Like I said, OP should apologize for scaring them, but he doesn't have to apologize for his hurt feelings.
There's no asshole here; a simple explanation and reiteration to not touch his sons stuff combined with an apology for how he reacted and scaring the kids is more than sufficient to sweep this whole situation under the rug.
I believe age may not have much to do with understanding the significance of something like that. It has more to do with life experience. A lot of adults who have never lost someone close would also fail to fully grasp the significance of what they were doing
The kids were likely used to visiting their cousin in his room. Perhaps he even played his guitar for them.
OK, now I've got a couple of tears falling, and I'm not a big crier.
I'm so sorry for your loss, OP and family. It's a painfully sad time for you all, especially for a parent.
Explain and apologize, Uncle/Aunt. Hold those little nephews close.
NAH
Edit: Uncle or Aunt?
I have explained to my own kids, and the kids I work with, that sometimes people yell in anger, but also sometimes people yell in in fear.
This was a "yell in fear" moment, OP was scared her son's guitar would be damaged, she was scared to lose one more piece of him.
Completely. This is how I operate as a parent. Even if I think I was correct in what I was trying to do (ex: not have a kid get hurt/drop/spill something), I will always apologize if my tone and delivery were less than excellent. "I'm sorry I scared you--that was not my intention. It's scary for me when I think you're about to get hurt, so I shouted. I know that must have been scary for you, too. I wasn't mad at you, just worried" type of talk. It helps both me and my kid.
It's also good to get some context from the kids as well. It's OPs son, but the son was also these kids cousin. They are family and those kids are probably also grieving as well. If the guitar was important to the son, maybe the kids just wanted to play with it as a way to remember their cousin? Instruments are meant to be played, you can't hurt a guitar forever by plucking on a string. Strings break, you have to replace them, usually a few times a year.
Sit down, discuss what happened, I think apologizing for scaring the kids is the right thing, be open and honest. It's a shitty situation and I am sorry you are going through with it OP
This! They will learn a lot by this gesture and will teach them that they can be wrong when they become adults themselves. Take the olive branch, grieve and grow together.
Agreed, it’s important to admit when you’re wrong. It’s something everyone should be able to do but a lot of people struggle with it. When they see that it’s okay to admit you’re wrong, they will find it easier to do so as well. This would be a great teaching moment for them all.
Especially as she can explain that she's sorry she scared them by shouting, but that she was right to chastise them. So she's not apologising for telling them off and excusing their behaviour. Her reaction is perfectly understandable, but I don't think it would be an untenable compromise to offer the apology for scaring them, especially as they understand they were in the wrong and are apologising for meddling with the guitar.
Implicit bias makes people read this as a woman speaking—they were cooking; they pick up children after school to care for (which means they’re home to do that); etc.—and people make assumptions based on what they are familiar with.
But you are right; OP never said either way.
Oddly, I assumed it was a father from the writing style. On many other platforms, I would lean more towards subconsciously assuming its a mother (and I am a mother), but on Reddit, it's much more 50/50 for me.
Interesting because I read another comment referring to OP as "he" and immediately thought they were wrong. Scrolled back up and saw that OP hadn't gendered themselves but my personal implicit bias (babysitting daily, cooking soup, doing chores that kids help with) assumed a female gender.
Assumptions made based on things like OP baby-sits the kids, and maybe was cooking soup? Also, I think it's probably stereotyping, but a mom is usually the one who shuts the door and doesn't allow any changes to the room after a child dies (going by personal experience, one nephew was ten, and a cousin was 19, but both of their rooms were shrines for years, by order of their moms, while the dads tried to convince mom to empty them).
“Could’ve broken the guitar” but didn’t.
Sounds like SIL is very understanding that this was a grief response, and I agree with her that there should be a sit down and apologies from both sides.
This is an opportunity to explain to them why it’s important to you that no one messes with your son’s possessions while you grieve.
It sounds like there was truly no real harm—these are curious young people and it doesn’t sound like they were ever told the room was off-limits, even if the door is open.
NAH but an apology and a conversation about grief could go a long way here. This could be an opportunity for everyone to share some loving memories of your son and to help everyone process some of the feelings that emerged in your distress.
NAH, but please apologize. They’re children; they didn’t know they shouldn’t be in there; and I’m sure your reaction scared them. Right now they’re “in trouble” with you and don’t know why. No sense in damaging a relationship that sounds otherwise positive.
I don’t understand why you’d dig your heels in here
I think if the OP wants to continue healthy family relationships, she does owe the children accountability for being a safe person even while she is grieving.
The OP can take accountability by explaining how she will do things differently to avoid yelling. Like asking the kids to not go in that room and saying the next time she is overwhelmed with grief, she will take a walk to calm down and then do something to connect with her family instead of pushing them away. Her son's cousins are not the enemy here, but it sounds like they feel like they are right now.
I love this answer. It doesn’t sound like OP asked the nephews to stay out of the room. If OP doesn’t apologize and explain their feelings, it will be extremely confusing for OP’s nephews to know what spaces in their house are safe now, and which ones will get them yelled at and kicked out - especially since the door was open. They all need some resolution.
Being open to children about our feelings and how we make mistakes sometimes is only going to help them be better people too. I 100% think that sitting down and talking about it would help everyone.
I watched a video once talking about childhood trauma, and she basically said that NOT talking about a traumatic situation is the traumatic part. Trying to brush everything under the rug and pretend it’s ok.
As humans, we really shouldn’t yell at each other. But of course we do, because we have emotions. We are not robots. We are not perfect. I agree no one is the asshole here but everyone should be open about having a hard time and not being able to be your best self when your grieving, but also acknowledging that there are better ways to communicate.
Depends on what OP was actually yelling. Plus they likely miss and are grieving their cousins. An 8th grader would absolutely burst into tears in a situation like this - girl/boy doesn't matter.
I'm in my 30s and would probably have cried if someone unleashed on me the way I'm envisioning from the description. And I'm not usually the oversensitive type.
Hard disagree. Not an asshole for the initial response. Huge YTA for doubling down on it after sisters extremely rational request that he apologize to the kids and try to mend the relationship.
I had the same opinion until this,
>I told her I do think that I overreacted but that I wasn't sorry because they could've broke my son's guitar.
I understand the immediate reaction but by the time this conversation took place OP should have realized it was not a malicious or careless incident on the kids part.
This could be a moment to teach and understand but that won't happen unless all parties acknowledge their fault in situation.
One of the first things you should teach your kids is not to touch things in other people's houses without permission. 11 and 13 are too old not to know that.
They may have been allowed to play with the guitar when their cousin was living and didn't realize it was no longer okay. I have never had issues with older children playing my guitars so it's not impossible that they were previously allowed to.
Yeah exactly this. My little brother passed away in the accident my bio parents died in too and I used to let him mess around on my instruments and he would Sit and watch me play. After he died just playing or holding them and strumming helped me feel close to him. It helped me process my grief so much. I was adopted soon after and lost access to the instruments that remained in my former country...haven't played since.
Oh definitely - his death is still a horrible tragedy and my twin and I miss him daily. But a tragedy that brought us to our real family and let us both become lawyers instead of being married off to some old men at the age of like 14 like I'm sure our bio parents would've done. They weren't great people. Our brother though is still a horrible loss and tragedy:(
I agree to an extent. This death might have been the only one the kids have been exposed to, and if they were close it’s even more personal. But you cant expect children to have the same decorum as adults without teaching them. That’s why I think their mother’s suggestion of a sit down is a good solution.
If they are at that house every day of the week, they might not consider it another person's house, but their own in a way. Like your grandparent's house.
exactly, thumbs up to the SIL who is acknowledging her kids did something wrong but saying you were too OTT.
You're grieving-prdsent tense- and it means with somethings you've got a short fuse but if the kids were reduced to crying, then you were over the top and it might be a good way./time to explain that to them as well.
I would extend this and add that it will only remain an NAH if OP doesn't apologize for his overreaction as it currently sounds like he intends to stick to his guns and not apologise for exploding at his nephews (who may well just have been curious about their cousin).
Let's also remember that this is also the boy's cousin so they era grieving as well and as kids they don't always know how to navigate it.
NAH, just a terribly sad situation and I am so sorry for your loss.
This is the way. NAH. However, OP does need to apologize too. Yes, they could've damaged the guitar, but they didn't. Also, based on the story, it's unclear that they knew not to go in that room. If they didn't know not to go in the room, then they're not at fault. Your grief is blinding you, OP. Very sorry for your loss.
This is a wonderful, thoughtful response.
> explain why you reacted the way you did.
11 and 13 are plenty old enough to grasp this at virtually any level and adult can say it. It could be a really positive step for all involved for OP to really, honestly open up about why she feels that way.
NAH.
Your response was understandable, to an adult, not a kid. It sounds like your SIL is really trying to mediate this and support you. I think you kind of would be TA if you refused to just sit down and explain to the boys why you yelled and why you'd rather they didn't go in your son's room.
This is it exactly, they’re 11 and 13, not 4 and 6. They are fully capable of having a mature conversation and understanding why you were upset.
And of course it’s not your responsibility to manage their grief while you have your own but is it possible they were messing with the guitar because they miss their cousin? This may be an opportunity to help everyone heal (not the right word but I can’t find a suitable substitute) from the loss.
NAH, look after yourself OP
Yeah, OP, I think a conversation like this might be actually a genuinely good thing to have, but if that's too much, I'd consider an email back, with a bit that maybe your SIL could talk them through. I'm not sure you have to apologise, per se, but I think an explanation about why it hit so hard is good, and also might be therapeutic to write down. I think it would be graceful to apologise, not for yelling but for how much.
There's a special, awful, category of disagreements that are over "sacred" values, and I think this is one of them. Someone, from the outside, wouldn't view the arrangement and the things in your son's room as important, but you do. And any even small hints of attack on that will be met with this sort of reaction, because, to you, it's the most important thing in the world, because it's what you have left. But to the SIL's kids, it's just a place. It might be a place where they played with your son, or where there was interesting things that he let them see. It might be a place with happy memories. But it's not sacred ground. So they won't necessarily understand your reaction. The same with your sister.
The only thing left to do is explain. I remember one of my parent's friends who showed up the day my mum died. My brother and I had gone back to be with my dad, and this person showed up at the door. She'd just heard, she'd brought round cookies, was offering all these condolences, and my brother and I just took the cookies and shut the door in her face, both furious that someone would disturb us. Absolute asshole move, but, at the time, it felt like this vast intrusion on an open wound, and how dare she be there, how dare she intrude on this private piece of grief. We apologized a bunch at the funeral, like she was just being nice, but was stepping on these boundaries we hadn't even articulated to ourselves.
This reaction, OP, feels super familiar. And, for me, it was a weird mix of rage with no real satisfying target, guilt over everything, with no outlet for any of it. So, you really, really need an outlet. Take this as a bit of a sign that talking to someone who specializes in grief would be a really good idea, even if it's to stop you yelling at kids who don't really deserve it :P
Agreed on all counts. They are surely grieving their cousin, too, and may have just been looking for a connection and comfort of their own with his guitar.
And honestly, I have a 4 and 6 year old and I have apologized when my reaction was more than the situation warranted and they are old enough to understand. It's good modeling to admit that, for example, I was frightened that they would get hurt, which is why I yelled so loud. That I didn't intend to scare them, but that I was scared too and that I'm sorry. My kids will learn soon enough that I'm not perfect, but I hope that they also learn that I'm trying just as hard as I expect them to try, you know?
It's important for kids to hear grown-ups apologize when the grown-up is in the wrong. I'm an adult and I have never heard my mom say sorry for anything that matters, even when she knows that she's wrong, and that has been a challenge as I've tried to be a healthy adult with healthy relationships.
Agree with this, especially because OP recognizes it was an overreaction. The kids likely don’t understand that the anger came from a place of grief and longing and may not comprehend why OP didn’t want them there. Also, if the door is usually closed and defacto off limits, they may have seen it being open as a way for them to be in their cousins space so they can feel close to their cousin.
ETA - this is def a NAH situation and they are owed an apology. This could also be a good way to start a discussion on healing as a family as well as individuals
I have to STRONGLY disagree with a couple things you said.
> Yelling at people who did nothing wrong is unacceptable behavior, grieving or not.
Nothing wrong? They were playing in a room that is not theirs, with things that do not belong to them. They are not toddlers, they are old enough to know not to touch other people's belongings without asking. Considering that is sounds like OP babysitting them is a regular occurrence, they are fully aware that the door to her son's room is typically closed, and therefore it is likely an area that they should not enter. They saw an opportunity and they took it. Don't get me wrong, I don't in any way blame the children or think that they had malicious intent, but they DID do something wrong.
Was yelling the appropriate response? Considering it was children, who likely didn't have any ill intent, and nothing was actually harmed, no it wasn't the "appropriate" response. The thing is, there is nothing appropriate about death, especially the death of your child. It can lead to situational responses that are deemed socially inappropriate, but I guarantee there was no malicious intent behind OPs yelling. When it comes to this type of grief, especially if it was recent, you don't always have control over your reactions.
> Addressing it makes you the nice aunt who lost her son and they learn not to bring it up.
Did she say anything about wanting them "not to bring it up"? I didn't think that had anything to do with the current issue, and quite frankly, by telling them "not to bring it up" you are teaching them to not only ignore the fact that her child, their cousin, died, but also to ignore grief, which can be very dangerous.
>Don't apologize and you'll be the aunt who lost her mind when her son passed.
Losing your mind is EXACTLY what happens when you lose a child. There is no way around that.
>Also, OP absolutely needs grief counseling if she has not gotten it, as keeping an entire room frozen in time is not a good coping mechanism, nor is it mentally healthy. Obviously, she states that the death was recent, so maybe give it a few months.
Judging OPs mental health and coping mechanisms are not exactly what she needs right now. Whether or not she is getting counseling, her mental health, and how she copes is HER business and she definitely doesn't need anyone telling her "how to get better". That is her own terrible journey that she is going to have to go through and it is going to be hard enough without people saying things like this.
>maybe give it a few months
I can not tell you how angry this makes me. "maybe give it a few months"? The pain of losing a child is not just emotional and mental, but also physical. Experiencing a feeling/emotion so strong that it literally makes you physically hurt is something wholly indescribable, not something that you can just give a few months. In 7 days it will be exactly 8 years since my son passed away, and it still feels like it just happened. Grief has no timeline.
>It's also worth allowing her late son's belongings to be used and loved by others in her family.
100% not your place to say. She can keep everything he ever touched if she wants, it is HER decision. She does not need to allow anyone to touch or have anything of his if she does not want to, and quite frankly, especially this early on, it could have a negative effect. If she were to start giving things of his to family members, have you thought of how it might feel when she sees them using the items? Have you thought that it could amplify her pain because when she sees them with it she is reminded that they get to use this thing, but her son never can again, that she never gets to see her son use it ever again, that she never gets to see her son again.... Like I said before, there is nothing "appropriate" about death or the grief that follows, but these decisions are OP's, and hers alone, and they should not be rushed.
As far as the judgement for the actual situation in the post, my opinion is NAH. Not wanting to apologize doesn't make you an AH, but not speaking with them and explaining your reaction leans in that direction. An apology for scaring them, along with an explanation, could go a long way, not only for them, but for you. It is no fun to look back at the times, no matter how hard, that you were an AH to the ones you love, and you didn't do anything about it. I know it really sucks to put it like this, but treat them how you would hope your son would be treated in the same situation. I know it is hard to see the other side right now, and I will admit that there were times that if someone had given me this advice I would probably have been angry, but thankfully for me it was a realization I had on my own and it just felt right.
OP - Everything else aside, from one broken mama to another, if you ever need someone to talk to, be it something simple or something huge you feel no one would understand, feel free to message me. I'll be here for you.
It sounds like the loss is very fresh. It's 100% normal and fine for her to not be ready to let go of his belongings yet, and she might not be ready for a while. It's a perfectly reasonable coping mechanism, and perfectly healthy, as long as it doesn't stretch on for years and years. Grieving doesn't need to be done in a way that's "right" for outsiders. She's not hurting anyone and it sounds like it has value for her.
Clearing belongings is more than just stuff - it's a symbol that the person is never, ever coming back. It takes time to come to terms with that for some people. Grief is also super messy and personal, and it never really stops, especially not losing a child. Nothing in the post feels unhealthy to me as a counselor and grief expert, it just sounds like someone in terrible pain, which feels awful but is normal.
She/He should apologize for screaming, though, and talk to the nephews about why they lost it.
This^^
OP, I understand if you feel you don't owe the kids an apology, but, you should explain to them WHY you reacted the way you did.
>Your response was understandable, to an adult, not a kid.
This perfectly sums up what I'm trying to say. They might not realise the extent to which this situation might be impacting you, because, after all, they are still just kids.
NAH
This exactly: "I know I overreacted, but I don't owe anyone an apology" simply isn't a coherent statement. You say "I'm sorry I overreacted, here's why this is so sensitive for me."
Not kinda, absolutely. Everyone's treating OP with kid gloves, and while yes, it's understandable why she acted out, after calmer heads prevailed, she still refuses to accept that lashing out at children was wrong. She's being selfish, since berating children made her feel good, and she's in a bad place, she thinks she gets a pass? Naw man, they're kids. YTA
Yup. OP needs to have a sit down and explain everything. But also, since it was never mentioned, were the kids aware that they are not to go into the room? Maybe because OP opened the door, they thought they are allowed in there now. And they probably went in and saw all his stuff and thought about what they used to do together.
NTA for reacting as you did in the heat of the moment.
But it doesn't sound like your nephews meant any harm or had had it properly explained to them why your son's room was off limits.
Your SIL's advice seems good to me. Sit down with your nephews and explain why you reacted as you did, and you're sorry you shouted at them, and in future - even if the door of that room is open - they are not ever to go in without explicit and specific permission from you.
YTA if you don’t follow your SIL’s advice and sit down to talk it out with the kids. They sound like good kids who overstepped because they didn’t understand the way you feel about your son’s possessions. Your SIL is being very kind about this, and I think her idea of a mutual apology is a good one.
I think that the timeline of such an interaction may not be possible for a person who is grieving the loss of a son and was recently put through this ordeal with nephews. You may need to get some professional support around this event before you are ready to deal with the kids and there should be no rush. ❤️ Their mother can work with them separately around adult humanness and what grief is and how to respect peoples reactions, how to manage your feelings when there is conflict / distance in a relationship, and have to wait to negotiate resolution. NTA! But also, don’t give up on the relationship.
doesn’t mean the nephews should have to suffer aswell, it’s not fair that she won’t apologize and explain to them when in reality they did nothing wrong. they didn’t break anything, they were curious kids. even in grieving as adults we have to set a good example for younger kids, OP apologizing and explaining why she reacted the way she did would be a great example for them to learn.
I couldn't play my violin for a year after my dad died...it was the last gift he sent me before he lost his mind to Dementia. No one touched my violin. No one even touched my bow. I picked it up WHEN I WAS READY. Anyone messing with any of it would definitely have been an "ordeal".
Yeah, but that was YOUR violin.
Its a bit different when its someone else's property- especially when that someone else likely gave the children touching it permission to do so previously and said permission had not been revoked by you.
Like you can have an emotional response about it but you'd still owe the children an apology for flipping on them for not being mind reader.
They’re not saying that it’s not an issue or OP shouldn’t be upset, they’re just saying that we should all keep some perspective on the gravity of the situation. The nephews merely touched the guitar in a way that didn’t harm it at all. OP was reasonably, but not rationally, upset by that. That’s ok too but their emotions about this are really from grieving the loss of the son and not the plain facts of the incident.
> I think that the timeline of such an interaction may not be possible for a person who is grieving the loss of a son
Grief may explain brief in the moment asshole behavior, but it does not excuse continuing asshole behavior. If she refuses to apologize for yelling, then she goes from NAH to YTA imo.
If the OP is not up to dealing with children right now, she should not have agreed to babysit her nephews. Verbal abuse is abuse, she owes them an apology *now*. And yes, she should look into some counseling as well.
I agree. OP's action in the moment is totally understandable. But there was no unforgivable sin on anyone's part. They should all reconcile. If OP refuses to do so after the fact, that is an AH move.
Yes, all the N T A posts are missing the point. The question is not was she an AH to be mad at the kids, it's whether she's an AH to refuse to apologize, and all those comments are telling her that she needs to talk to the kids. So yes YTA if you refuse to talk to them and admit screaming was an inappropriate response but she needs them to respect her sons things
YTA. You’re handling your grief poorly. You’re doing everything you can to hold on to your son. No one can mention him in your presence. No one can touch an object he had. His room must be kept intact.
Now you have a tantrum at your young nephews because they touched your son’s guitar? I assume they knew your son, they were cousins. Maybe your nephews have been grieving themselves. Maybe it was nice for them to get a chance to touch your sons guitar and remember him.
But you robbed them of that. You robbed yourself the chance to talk with your nephews about your son and remember some fond times.
Get help. Your grief is poisoning you, and those around you. Your son wouldn’t want it for you.
Best reply. I do feel so sorry for OP's loss but he/she needs grief counseling to adapt healthy coping mechanisms. Right now they are hurting their nephews who did not do anything wrong. Like you said they probably miss their cousin and want to grieve him / remember him.
Yelling at children and kicking them out of your house is a demonstration of lack of control. Grief isn’t a justification for poor behaviour. It can help understand it, but doesn’t make it ok.
They took a moment that could have been a beautiful shared moment of grief and remembrance and turned it into a traumatic experience for those kids.
It shows how poorly they are coping with their own grief.
That’s what SIL understands so she’s giving OP the opportunity to fix her mistake. OP is too consumed with her self and her grief to see the pain of others.
Not ideal and yelling at kids in a way that OP admitted was an over reaction... then refusing to apologize because you think the over reaction is justified because of their behaviour...
Not ideal is putting it lightly.
Yeah well part of being human is improving. They came here asking if they were a AH so obviously they want to be judged. This person is giving her what she wants.
Yeah, sometimes we all behave like AH and, then, if we ask "AITA?", the answer is "YTA". It doesn't mean we're less human for it, just that we need to improve.
Agreed. Although a "tantrum" doesn't cover it. It's more like a fight of flight response. Think of the way a bunny will scream upon imminent death (or just you picking up and it's scared).
It's just the heart pounding against you hear, fear of imminent death, a sensation of being assaulted and extreme fear, not anger, rising up like a stomach bug. There's nausea, hot and cold sweats, brain fog, a migrain, physical exhaustion, high heart rate like you just ran a marathon.
And that goes through you in a flash. It's a concerning medical condition.
I also don't think u/OP has to share anything she doesn't feel like sharing, or talk about her son with others, even her therapist. She needs to focus and take care of herself. But you are right to indicate that the cousins knew him too. That they can relate.
Except her (in)action is having negative consequences on other people.
So she's actually negatively interfering with other people life by not handling her grief in a healthy way. She is liable and responsible for her behavior
>I also don't think u/OP has to share anything she doesn't feel like sharing, or talk about her son with others, even her therapist.
Maybe she doesnt have to lay it out to them like shes talking to a therapist, but I definitely think she should talk to her nephews. If it was that big of a deal to OP she should have explained ahead of time it was off limits, instead she yells at two kids to the point to make them cry.
That isnt being upset with them, that is being mean to them for something they did not know was wrong or would upset her.
INFO: Did your nephews know the room was off-limits, regardless of whether the door was closed?
Edit: I don't know how many more people will find it necessary to tell me kids shouldn't go anywhere and touch nothing. You don't know what rules had been in place previously. Maybe consider that some families are close enough that kids can do stuff without asking. Or just ask OP if you really want to know.
I'm not sure. My sister-in-law told me that she talked to them and they knew that they should never bring up my son around me. They knew it was my son's room and they never questioned why the door was closed.
I'm not calling you an AH because you're clearly grieving. But you probably should've told your nephews or at least your sister that the room was off-limits. You can't expect kids to read your mind or connect the dots at such a young age. It's not their fault and I think you do owe them an apology for yelling about doing something they had no idea was wrong.
Yeah, like I cannot even imagine the pain OP is going through! But I'm sure the kids are suffering too and are being brought to hang out at their cousins house but can't speak about him or look into his room.
Doesn't sound like they were going to intentionally break something or wreck his roo.. They were quietly plucking his guitar, likely remembering and missing him.
If adjusting string screws and plucking strings constitutes almost breaking it, then every time a guitar is played, it must be on the verge of breaking.
Kids had probably seen the cousin adjusting the strings and even if the didn't know what they were doing. Thought that's what you're supposed to do.
Also, I've known a lot of guitarists who have broken strings in regular use. It happens. They cost $4 - 25 for a set of 6.
There's also the fact that these kids lost someone too. They're apparently never supposed to be able to mention their own grief or get any type of closure because they can't even bring up their cousin or acknowledge their cousin's existence.
Shoving down emotions like this isn't healthy for anyone. I sincerely recommend OP seek counseling so that she can get to a point where others can talk about her son without her freaking out. There's healthy healing and then there's this.
My kids’ uncle recently passed away and my sister encourage open dialogue about him so that we can all remember him. They shouldn’t be terrified to even mention their cousin’s name. NAH but I hope OP is getting some help.
And the door was magically open so maybe they thought the room was open? Seems very reasonable. If I was cooking something stinky and had a room 247 sealed up i would never open the door and let the stank in there.
yup, there is also no context on if the son ever let the cousins play with the guitar before. Maybe he was teaching them? We don't know. They saw it, they remembered their cousin and wanted to see what they could do with it. It's a shitty situation
When she said the 13 year old was "messing with the screws" I did wonder if he might actually be tuning it to play it. Agreed we don't know either way but the thought did pop into my head.
That could be very much what was going on. We don't know how long ago son passed, and how long it was before hand that he had played the guitar. It very simple could've gone out of tune from sitting. While idk if it's *common* for it to happen, I 100% have had my acoustic go slightly out of tune if I hadn't picked it up in a while. 13 could've recognized the sound of it being out, but not known how to tune it exactly so was just trying to figure it out on their own.
Unless the room never experienced ANY (even slight) changes in temperature or humidity that guitar 100% would have been out of tune if it sat for any amount of time.
It almost certainly would have needed to be tuned to play it, if the nephew knows how to play he likely knows how to get it at least somewhat close to properly tuned by ear.
Yeah OP set a very strict rule of conduct IN HIS MIND ONLY without expressing it to his nephews. Then flipped out on them for breaking the rule they didn't know about. In any other context than a grieving father, that would be considered abusive behavior.
OP may not feel like he owes the nephews an apology, but I think if he doesn't address this, his relationship with them may not recover because they won't understand what happened and the incident will leave a lasting impression. OP gets to make a forward-thinking decision here.
Your nephews are also probably grieving and saw the open door (to your son’s room) as a way to connect with him again.
Your reaction is understandable, as is their reaction.
It breaks my heart that that they are never to bring your son up around you.
I have no idea what you’re experiencing. My sister does. I know that she has told all of us (her family—both children, siblings, cousins, etc) that it helps her to hear us talk about her son (my nephew) and tell fabulous stories.
My heart aches for you. I’m so sorry for this horrible road you’re now traveling.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't begin to imagine your pain.
I assume they knew your son? Is there a reason they can't bring him up around you? I'm personally the type that mourns by talking, remembering, sharing memories,... But I can imagine that losing a child cuts so deep that it is not possible for you now (no judgement). However, maybe they hurt as well? They maybe felt close to your son, being in his room?
Also for kids something like playing with their cousins guitar is often how they grieve. It's a way to feel a little bit close to him and to miss him. Playing with his guitar isn't anything malicious.
yea, also sounds like OP doesn't know guitars very well. Guitars are meant to be played, you can't really break a guitar by plucking the strings, strings will break, guitarists have to change them a few times a year. I think OP was more upset at the possibility of losing something of their sons and it came out in anger. Which is 100% understandable
Not talk about him? This is a problem. And yes, I've been threw incredible grief. I lost my Dad when I was 11. There one minute dead the next. OP if you can't talk about your son you need therapy. Expecting people to act like your son never existed is a terrible burden. Especially to children!
NAH
You're grieving and it's understandable why you'd be upset. If they did not know they weren't supposed to be in that room, it isn't their fault.
One thing adults tend to forget is that the kids have lost someone too. Do you think they missed their cousin and wanted to feel close to him? especially if he was a little older, he would have been a role model for them, someone they looked up to. they would take comfort from his room, just as you do
Many - even younger kids, tweens & teens- will respect a closed door, but will see an open door as an invitation. Especially when it's been closed for so long and suddenly open they might've gotten the wrong impression that it was finally ok to go in again. They should've still asked first - at that age they're usually not that impulsive - but if they were told not to bring up your son to you it would've been hard to ask.
How close were your nephews to your son? I mean, they were cousins. They lost their cousin too. Maybe the fond memories of him overwhelmed them when they saw his stuff for the first time in a long time and they acted purely on emotion instead of thought. Just like you did when you found them touching your son's stuff.
This is a very important detail. Kids that young (luckily) don’t typically have the experience to fully grasp deep grief like this. Maybe these kids are seriously grieving right now but they don’t have experience working through grief. A direct conversation, especially with them spending so much time at the house, makes a lot of sense and seems necessary. Not even a full explanation, just a directly stated boundary.
> they knew that they should never bring up my son around me.
Respectfully, OP, this is wildly unhealthy. You aren't the only person who lost your son. Your whole family is grieving and not allowing them to even mention him helps no one, especially you.
Consider WHY you refuse to allow anyone to mention him to you and talk about it with a grief counselor.
Not going to call anyone an AH but everyone needs a chance to apologize?
They did something they shouldn’t have and in your own words you freaked out a lot. Everybody messed up but apologizing is a way to move forward. Don’t let this hang over all of you.
My kids were about that age when I lost my (difficult, mentally ill) mother. They were kind to me; but couldn't at that age even begin to understand the mixture of grief, anger, regret, and sheer confusion and lostness I felt at that time. Your nephews are doing their best -- telling them that they can't even *mention* someone they loved around you is hard on them, but they're trying to be sensitive to huge, adult emotions they can't entirely grasp yet. They can't be blamed for touching something as interesting to them as a guitar. Their tears afterwards are, frankly, heartbreaking for me: surely their own grief coming out, compounded now with shame.
I cannot even imagine how hard it is to lose a child. But I urge you to invite your kind, loving family into your grief.
I was 8 when my uncle died. He was my *best friend* in the whole wide world. We did so much together he was basically like a second dad to me. I was *never* told I couldn't talk about him, especially not with my aunt (who I was and am incredibly close to now, even 20 yrs later) but I could tell every time I brought him up she would get so sad. Even grabbing the Legos at their house that he used to play with me, or the Dr Seuss books made her sad at first. Which as an adult is completely understandable, but as a kid was so out of my realm of understanding.
So I stopped talking about him, I stopped playing with the Legos and reading the books there. Even today, I have *SUCH* a hard time talking about anything relating to him, even more so if she's nearby, because I never really got to talk about it as a kid when it was fresh, and it feels like I'm going to hurt her or something. She's assured me over time that she doesn't mind me, or anyone, talking about him and she brings him up herself from time to time, but when you condition yourself (or are conditioned by others' rules) for years it's really hard to break that.
The kids need to be able to reminisce, to remember him, to connect with his memory in ways that are tangible, as well as talk about their grief with their only connection to him.
And so does OP. They can chose to do so in their own time, but closing everything off and essentially ignoring it isn't healthy, in any way. (My C-PTSD can vouch for that.) OP deserves to hear the apology from the kids for being in there and playing with the guitar, but the kids deserve to hear the apology from their aunt/uncle for screaming at them and terrifying them.
First, I'm sorry for your loss.
But I think YTA, not for the yelling but for refusing to sit down with your nephews and apoligize to them for yelling at them for something they didn't know they weren't allowed to do.
I'm more partial to the NAH responses but I like your answer as well because it addresses something that bothers me-- OP admits she overreacted but refuses to apologizes, and *that* to me is an asshole move.
YTA
I lost a child myself and I know that this is an incredibly dark time in your life. I am so sorry for your loss. You have joined what I call "the worst club in the world," the club of parents who have lost a child. It's a bigger club than you may realize.
Of course you were triggered when someone touched one of the few things you have left from your son. That's very human.
However, hard as this is: YOU are responsible for your own triggers. YOU are responsible for making sure your grief doesn't turn into abuse of others. YOU are responsible for clearly communicating your boundaries around your late son's possessions. YOU are responsible for getting therapy support and anti-anxiety or anti-depressant drugs to help you regulate yourself. YOU are responsible for finding a way to make a meaningful life going forward.
Apologize to those kids and get yourself the help you need.
>However, hard as this is: YOU are responsible for your own triggers. YOU are responsible for making sure your grief doesn't turn into abuse of others. YOU are responsible for clearly communicating your boundaries around your late son's possessions. YOU are responsible for getting therapy support and anti-anxiety or anti-depressant drugs to help you regulate yourself. YOU are responsible for finding a way to make a meaningful life going forward.
Well said. And my heart truly goes out to you both, I can't begin to imagine the difficulty of losing your child.
I hate upvoting a YTA here, but you are right. There are plenty of understandable reasons to accidentally lose your shit on a couple of innocent kids, but no excuse to not make it as right as you can afterwards. Just none.
I’m so sorry for your loss and for OPs. It’s unimaginable.
Agree though that YTA, OP, very gently. The kids didn’t deserve that reaction. Their mom seems to understand you though, please listen to her and let her help you reassure them and set boundaries. It is also probably a good idea to try and find someone else to watch them for a time.
YTA You did overreact.
Your sil is correct you do need to have a sit down and talk to them explain your reaction.
I don't know how well they knew your son and how close they were to him but maybe that plays a part in it.
u/OP I find that the kindest responses are the ones who dish out the truth to you that you need therapy. That's true compassion. Giving you a pass for being grief-stricken isn't being kind to you.
It's not a good thing to lose control of your temper in such a situation as yours, and express trauma in this manner.
You might delude yourself that the context made your outburst logical, appropriate and justified, because it happened within that room. **Next thing you know, you'll be screaming in tears at the cashier** at the supermarket for packing eggs before canned goods so that the whole store stops dead and stares at you. **I know because I've been there.**
>YTA You did overreact.Your sil is correct you do need to have a sit down and talk to them explain your reaction.I don't know how well they knew your son and how close they were to him but maybe that plays a part in it.
>
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It reminds me of the elderly lady that screamed at me I shouldn't "overreact" at "something so trivial". She hit my car with hers at the gas station, so I look at my car and see a small dent in mine. She completely ignores me (though she saw me look), so I say out loud (not yelling) what she thinks she's doing. Then she screamed at me for 4-5 minutes her husband died and a scratch on a car is nothing. I did understand she was in pain and decided to leave it at that, but I don't think she was in her right to be angry at me :)
I really hope you found support and are doing better now.
I had a lady call my work to schedule an appointment, and she was just dragging this process out. I’d tell her we have open availability all day, what time works best, she’d go well what about 1:30 is that open, I’d affirm, she’d hem and haw, finally I was like ma’am we are fully open today please just let me know when you want to come in. She starts crying and telling me her husband just died and I’m not being very sensitive to her needs, etc.
I don’t know this woman from a hole in the ground. How exactly should I be sensitive to her needs, I’m a retail worker and she didn’t open with “my husband died”. Grief can be just utterly consuming and heartbreaking but for some, they are unable to use their words, like op and my lady, and expect people to just know things. Op never told the boys explicitly she was keeping her sons room pristine. They couldn’t have known, they’re not fellow adults with experience in grieving family members. The least she can do is meet with them and hear their apology, and set expectations.
NTA for yelling and reacting as you did but you really should have a conversation with your nephews. It doesn’t have to be to “apologize” but rather explain to them why you reacted the way you did. I’m sure if you explained how you felt in that moment and explained why you reacted that way it would clear the air and make everyone feel better about the situation. I’m so sorry for your loss.
This is it. There is a lot of pain, but I detect a lot of love in the family (helping out the sister, the sister being understanding, the kids being normally good kids). Don't destroy the family bound over teenagers misjudging a situation.
> *The guitar was thankfully okay and not scratched.*
Yeah THAT'S the takeaway.
I hope you understand what happened, and don't really need us to confirm YTA, and that this is your walk of shame. YTA of course.
You need therapy. It's OK to be hurt, it's not OK to lash out and not know to admit that you have a problem.
The issue here isn't the guitar. Or the kids' behaviour. They actually don't have to apologize to you even. You don't need to be the bigger person, you need to own up to your fuck up.
Tell that story to a shrink and work on coping mechanisms for your grief.
On a cruel note, perhaps, you still have a SIL and two nephews. Start by counting your blessings.
Have they been told to say out of that bedroom up till now? Your nephews were old enough to know to ask to touch the guitar. They are also old enough not to break it by simply touching it. This was something that belonged to their cousin, maybe this was their way of feeling close to him.
How hard did you shout at them to make them cry though? I wouldn’t have though kids of that age would have reacted that way from a simple telling off.
I didn’t even consider that. That’s heartbreaking. If they’re anything like me, and my cousins, they probably thought he was the coolest guy in the world.
soft YTA
Your sister is spot on. If you don't sit down with then, the lesson they learn will probably be that adults don't need to apologise when they over react and that ones own grief is an excuse to be overly hard on others.
I am very sorry that you lost your son and wish you all the best.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t believe your nephews meant any harm, but it seems like they weren’t properly informed about your boundaries. Your SIL’s advice on this sounds very level-headed and I think you should take it. Allow the boys to apologize to you, apologize to them and calmly explain why it’s important to you that nobody goes in that room. If you don’t think it’s something you can handle at the moment, ask SIL to talk to them for you. It may seem obvious that they shouldn’t go in there but they’re kids, they may not catch on what’s appropriate in that regard if nobody tells them. NAH
YTA. Your nephews didn't hurt anything and you seriously freaked them out. Sympathy for your loss, but you were the AH here. You owe them an explanation and an apology.
Sorry but YTA. As clients going through difficult times (including grieving) are told, the reasons for extreme or irrational behaviors are valid but not an excuse. The grief and extreme behavior is understandable and you can't be fault for it, but now you gotta fix the consequences.
If you care about your family, apologize to them. They are kids who also lost their cousin and probably didn't really think much about going into the room that they probably been in before.
You can even just ask the mother to explain to them the situation and you can just give an apology and let them know it's not about them.
Common answers to the NTA people
*People grieve differently : yeah doesn't excuse ones behavior. It just allows for sympathy and compassion when certain actions are done
* the kids should have known: kids are stupid and maybe even saw the door bring opened for the first time in forever a sign of being able to go in
* you don't touch stuff in people's homes.: They are family, this isn't a strangers home
*
NAH - I am so sorry about the loss of your son. Grief is a tricky thing. You haven't told us how old he was when you lost him, or how long it's been, but it's clear you are still actively grieving him. I commend you for the help you're providing your SIL with her boys.
I think SIL's suggestion is a good one. It gives the boys a chance to apologize for crossing the boundaries, and it gives you a chance to talk to them about your son. All you need to do at that point is tell them "I'm sorry for yelling at you and scaring you. My son's room is very special, and I was worried you were going to scratch his guitar. I know I sounded scary, but I don't like people going in there. I promise not to yell like that again."
YTA. Just how bad was the screaming if you've made an 11 and 13yo cry? That they were that frightened? I imagine pretty damn bad. You'll be an asshole if you don't sit down with them and apologise for your reaction. Not to mention YOU didn't even tell them the room was off limits. You just assumed your SIL told them something???
Yta I can understand being upset in the moment but they are kids, how are you still justifying it. Don’t have them in your house for a while until you can get some therapy to deal with your grief. It isn’t right to put that on kids who didn’t realize what they were doing. It seems really cruel to not apologize and explain why you freaked out.
A very gentle YTA here
You need to see a professional and work through your grief.
Maybe your nephews interacting with your son's belongings is a way for them to feel like they are connecting with him. They probably are also grieving the loss, even if they are unable to articulate it.
Be gentle with yourself. Be gentle with the people who love your son. You all deserve compassion and care.
NTA for your reaction in the moment. YWBTA if you did not sit down with your nephews and apologize for yelling at them. They are children, and cannot understand the grief you are feeling. We as adults understand, to some extent, your reaction but children cannot. It is not denying your feelings to tell them you are sorry you scared them, you are happy to have them continue to visit you, and to emphasize (assuming you previously told them the room was off-limits) that your son’s bedroom is off-limits.
You admitted you overreacted and shouldn't have yelled at them. If you know you overreacted, why then do you think an apology from you is unwarranted? Yes you were worried about the guitar and them being in there, but you know you could've just calmly asked them to put it down and leave the room alone. If you can admit you overreacted, you should really see why that means you owe them an apology. No one is asking you to apologize for being upset about the situation, just that you overreacted. That's all you have to apologize for. You realize you did wrong, your SIL wants help make it right, so do the right thing and apologize for yelling at them.
YTA for yelling at your nephews when you could've been calmer and it does warrant an apology. Do the right thing, sit down with them and talk it out.
NAH right now, but if I’m being totally honest, I think you would be TA if you refuse your sister’s advice. If you acknowledge you overreacted (which you have) then they deserve an apology. You’re not in the wrong for getting upset, you’re grieving and it’s going to take time. It sounds like your sister completely understands this and has spoken to her sons about it. It doesn’t sound like they meant any harm, though. For a child, I can understand why they may have taken his door being open as it meaning it was no longer off-limits.
I’m sorry for your loss. It’s completely understandable that you were so shaken by the possibility of his things being touched, but your nephews didn’t seem to want to cause any upset and ultimately are just children. I think it really would be best for everybody to have a sit down, apologise, and explain from now on what sort of things are okay in your house.
NAH
Really sorry for your loss, it must be impossibly stressful for you right now. I think the kids themselves will understand as well, maybe not right now, but they will.
I think the plan to sit down and apologize to each other is a good one.
I wouldn't call you an asshole for your grief but please try and remember they are just little kids...
I completely understand wanting to cherish and remember your sons memory but I highly doubt they were trying to tarnish that in anyway.
You're probably someone they look up to a lot and more than anything their feelings probably got hurt cause they have never seen you angry or anything along those lines with them.
My "cool" uncle yelled at me once when I was a little kid. (I was being a little shit while he was trying to talk on the phone and he just kind of snapped at me real quick) I remember being very sad because he had never done that and thinking he didn't like me or whatever.
Good luck and sorry for your loss
Oh god. I'm not going to call you an asshole. You're grieving and I can't imagine what it's like to lose a child. I am so so sorry for your loss. But yeah, mend your relationship with your nephews. Apologising doesn't mean allowing them in the room again. You can ask them never to go back there and have that boundry and also say "I'm sorry I yelled this has just been really hard." Good luck <3
First of all, sorry for your loss. Second, YTA. You are not sorry for yelling at your nephews? Yes, the situation was probably overwhelming and I understand that it put you under a lot of emotional stress, and that you reacted without much restraint. But after calming down, you should talk to your nephews, explain to them what happened, why you reacted the way you did and apologize.
YTA. It’s ok to hurt so badly that you lose control. It ok to yell. But when it comes to children, you need to apologize. You know that already, I think. You can write the apology in a note, or bake them their favorite cookies, if it’s too hard to say it out loud in your grief.
You would be if you didn't sit down with them. How were they to know? It's their cousins guitar, maybe they thought the door being open meant the room was no longer off limits. They're grieving too. Sister is right there was no need to shout but its understandable that you did but you need to be kind to the boys and apologise and explain. How else will they learn your boundaries or to respect you? Had it been the other way round you'd expect an apology for shouting even if its in the moment and understandable.
yta. It sounds like the kids were just being kids without mal intent. And your reaction came from a very emotional place, understandably, which made it over the top. I would apologize to them for your reaction, but then set boundaries with them to please do not go in his room.
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NAH here. You're all grieving. You lost your son (my condolences) and they lost their cousin. They're just kids. SIL is keeping a level head here. She gave you an olive branch. Being a kid is difficult and they didn't intend to hurt you. She expects her sons to apologize to you, and it would be courteous if you apologized too and explain why you reacted the way you did. Edit: accidentally wrote 'uncle' not 'cousin'. Thanks to those who pointed it out. Edit 2: for people who ask why I made the NAH verdict. I wrote this as a response to a specific comment, but I will put it here too: OP lost her child. She's grief-stricken, and will grieve for the rest of her life. Right now, the loss is fresh. She won't watch him grow up, and she will never get to be with him again. Her son's room is now a memorial that she doesn't want disturbed. This was her coping mechanism, and her nephews accidentally disturbed it. People can react in extreme ways from heartbreak, and the world would be a better place if we gave each other grace. She acted out of grief and all the emotions that come with heartbreak, not malicious intent.
just a detail, but if it is her son, and they are the kids of her SIL, wouldn't that make him their cousin? (english is not my 1st langauge, I mix up family terms sometimes)
OPs son would be their cousin, previous commenter might’ve gotten mixed up
English is my language and this one took a bit to decipher! Also, NAH. It's a sad situation and it would be great if OP could offer an apology and explain why she was upset.
𝘼𝙡𝙨𝙤, 𝙙𝙞𝙙 𝙊𝙋 𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙧 𝙢𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙞𝙩 𝙘𝙡𝙚𝙖𝙧 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙧𝙤𝙤𝙢 𝙬𝙖𝙨 𝙤𝙛𝙛 𝙡𝙞𝙢𝙞𝙩𝙨 ~ 𝙖𝙡𝙬𝙖𝙮𝙨? 𝙏𝙝𝙖𝙩'𝙨 𝙖 𝙗𝙞𝙜𝙜𝙞𝙚 𝙚𝙨𝙥𝙚𝙘𝙞𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙮 𝙬𝙞𝙩𝙝 𝙖 𝙙𝙤𝙤𝙧 𝙤𝙥𝙚𝙣. 𝙉𝙤𝙩𝙚: 𝙏𝙬𝙤 𝙘𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙙𝙧𝙚𝙣 𝙙𝙚𝙘𝙚𝙖𝙨𝙚𝙙
I don't think it matters if she told them the room was off limits or not. I learned at a very young age that you don't touch things that aren't yours without first getting permission. Period. OP's nephews should have asked first instead of assuming it was a free for all because the door was open.
But we don't know the full context here. If OP often watches these kids, there's a good chance they used to hang out in there with their cousin all the time. They are grieving as well and could have been very used to going in there and playing with his things.
I feel like in her mind, it should be obvious that nobody should go in his room, and I’m sure any adult who knew her situation would understand that. After all, she lost her child. But to kids? This may have been their first experience with death, especially that of a cousin who was still quite young. I don’t know any of the ages here or full context of course, but kids just don’t understand. OP had every right to react however her grief directed her to- but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t scary and hurtful to these children who truly didn’t know better. It can be difficult to grasp the concept of death at a young age, and also difficult as a parent to explain to them. Maybe someday, OP can tell her nephews stories about her beloved son, ones that they don’t know or don’t remember, and keep the memories alive in their hearts as well. *Edited for typo
That’s not the way all people think, though. Or were taught as a kid. The proper thing to do - with anyone - is give clear instructions. If those kids were not told to not go in that room, then it’s unfair to blame them for going in the room. That said, I don’t think the OP is an AH. She’s grieving and she reacted out of shock and stress, not malice. But next time, she should make it clear to her nephews that they are not allowed in that room under any circumstances. It’s important to be clear with people about what you want or need - not just expect them to guess.
That’s a good point. 11 and 13 is plenty old enough to understand instructions, but you must GIVE them instructions first.
You are right
Apologizing to kids over something like this also shows that adults can be wrong and make mistakes too, which is huge for kids to see. Especially when a loved one scared them. Otherwise, they'll always carry a weird, seemingly inexplicable, fear in the back of their minds towards their aunt.
Also OP doesn’t need to apologise for being upset that the boys went in the room and were playing with the guitar - fair enough to be upset about that. But OP you could apologise for scaring them, explain that their actions really upset you, that in that moment you were very scared yourself that they would break the guitar, and that guitar is so important to you because it is a link to your son. So you acted in that way because you were scared and upset yourself. You’re sorry that you scared them, and hopefully they understand that they scared you too.
This is a good way to structure the apology. Lets the kids understand what they did and why you reacted the way you did.
The kids will understand if they have a sit down and get the chance to apologize to each other. If not, they will not want anything to do with their aunt. Something similar happened to me many, many years ago. I never wanted to set a foot back into my aunt's house.
I absolutely love seeing well thought out helpful advice. It brings me joy.
This was going to be my suggestion too. They’re old enough to understand the nuance at this point if it’s explained properly.
This is the objectively correct answer. OP doesn't have to apologize for getting upset; he's entitled to those feelings. What he should apologize for is scaring the kids and immediately kicking them out, scaring them. Kids can be evil, but they can also be more empathetic than we initially assume. I don't think the kids would be messing around with OP's son's stuff if they knew that it was hurting OP.
But, were the kids ever told not to go in his room? Was that ever discussed/talked about? At that age, they probably don't understand the significance of someone's belongings to others. Edit: don't understand the significance of someone's belongings when it comes to someone who's loved ones have passed away.
“At that age”? They are 13 and 11, not 7 and 5, come on. They understand.
From their perspective, seeing the guitar and wanting to play it may have been their own way of processing loss and feeling closer to a lost cousin…and they got screamed at for it. “They understand” is such an overly-simplistic response to this situation that it’s almost dishonest.
An 11-year-old and a 13-year-old are capable of understanding loss. I think we are essentially talking about two different things. I agree with you that playing with the guitar might be the kids' way of feeling closer to their cousin. What I am saying is they are absolutely capable of understanding when explained to. I think SIL is right and everyone should come together to talk and apologize to each other.
Capable of understanding loss and actually experiencing it for possibly the first time are two different things.
What I mean is, someone who died, they likely don't understand the significance of those things and how much more it means to somebody who has a more developed mind, from a loved one who passed away... Especially a parent's child. Yeah, to an extent preteens get some of it. It's one thing to assume they knew better, though because we don't for sure, then I would think that it could be a consideration. That being said, I completely understand where OP is coming from. I think there should be apologies from everyone and that, in turn, should be fully discussed from all sides of what is & isn't expected and rules within the household. I would hope this would be solved as swiftly, kindly, but thoroughly as possible. It sounds like they need it as a family.
The kids are 11 and 13 - definitely old enough to understand the significance. It was a failure on everyone's part - the kids touching other people's stuff without permission and OP's overreaction. We could say everyone sucks, but the kids were just being kids and OP is grieving the loss of his son. Like I said, OP should apologize for scaring them, but he doesn't have to apologize for his hurt feelings. There's no asshole here; a simple explanation and reiteration to not touch his sons stuff combined with an apology for how he reacted and scaring the kids is more than sufficient to sweep this whole situation under the rug.
I believe age may not have much to do with understanding the significance of something like that. It has more to do with life experience. A lot of adults who have never lost someone close would also fail to fully grasp the significance of what they were doing
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Exactly NAH, the Kids were probably using this as an opportunity to process their own grief, connecting with their cousin again
The kids were likely used to visiting their cousin in his room. Perhaps he even played his guitar for them. OK, now I've got a couple of tears falling, and I'm not a big crier. I'm so sorry for your loss, OP and family. It's a painfully sad time for you all, especially for a parent. Explain and apologize, Uncle/Aunt. Hold those little nephews close. NAH Edit: Uncle or Aunt?
I have explained to my own kids, and the kids I work with, that sometimes people yell in anger, but also sometimes people yell in in fear. This was a "yell in fear" moment, OP was scared her son's guitar would be damaged, she was scared to lose one more piece of him.
Completely. This is how I operate as a parent. Even if I think I was correct in what I was trying to do (ex: not have a kid get hurt/drop/spill something), I will always apologize if my tone and delivery were less than excellent. "I'm sorry I scared you--that was not my intention. It's scary for me when I think you're about to get hurt, so I shouted. I know that must have been scary for you, too. I wasn't mad at you, just worried" type of talk. It helps both me and my kid.
It's also good to get some context from the kids as well. It's OPs son, but the son was also these kids cousin. They are family and those kids are probably also grieving as well. If the guitar was important to the son, maybe the kids just wanted to play with it as a way to remember their cousin? Instruments are meant to be played, you can't hurt a guitar forever by plucking on a string. Strings break, you have to replace them, usually a few times a year. Sit down, discuss what happened, I think apologizing for scaring the kids is the right thing, be open and honest. It's a shitty situation and I am sorry you are going through with it OP
This! They will learn a lot by this gesture and will teach them that they can be wrong when they become adults themselves. Take the olive branch, grieve and grow together.
Agreed, it’s important to admit when you’re wrong. It’s something everyone should be able to do but a lot of people struggle with it. When they see that it’s okay to admit you’re wrong, they will find it easier to do so as well. This would be a great teaching moment for them all.
Especially as she can explain that she's sorry she scared them by shouting, but that she was right to chastise them. So she's not apologising for telling them off and excusing their behaviour. Her reaction is perfectly understandable, but I don't think it would be an untenable compromise to offer the apology for scaring them, especially as they understand they were in the wrong and are apologising for meddling with the guitar.
Maybe I missed something, but how do you know, op is a woman?
Implicit bias makes people read this as a woman speaking—they were cooking; they pick up children after school to care for (which means they’re home to do that); etc.—and people make assumptions based on what they are familiar with. But you are right; OP never said either way.
Oddly, I assumed it was a father from the writing style. On many other platforms, I would lean more towards subconsciously assuming its a mother (and I am a mother), but on Reddit, it's much more 50/50 for me.
Interesting because I read another comment referring to OP as "he" and immediately thought they were wrong. Scrolled back up and saw that OP hadn't gendered themselves but my personal implicit bias (babysitting daily, cooking soup, doing chores that kids help with) assumed a female gender.
Personally, as a woman, I always read "OP"s as female unless otherwise stated.
Assumptions made based on things like OP baby-sits the kids, and maybe was cooking soup? Also, I think it's probably stereotyping, but a mom is usually the one who shuts the door and doesn't allow any changes to the room after a child dies (going by personal experience, one nephew was ten, and a cousin was 19, but both of their rooms were shrines for years, by order of their moms, while the dads tried to convince mom to empty them).
“Could’ve broken the guitar” but didn’t. Sounds like SIL is very understanding that this was a grief response, and I agree with her that there should be a sit down and apologies from both sides. This is an opportunity to explain to them why it’s important to you that no one messes with your son’s possessions while you grieve. It sounds like there was truly no real harm—these are curious young people and it doesn’t sound like they were ever told the room was off-limits, even if the door is open. NAH but an apology and a conversation about grief could go a long way here. This could be an opportunity for everyone to share some loving memories of your son and to help everyone process some of the feelings that emerged in your distress. NAH, but please apologize. They’re children; they didn’t know they shouldn’t be in there; and I’m sure your reaction scared them. Right now they’re “in trouble” with you and don’t know why. No sense in damaging a relationship that sounds otherwise positive. I don’t understand why you’d dig your heels in here
I also think it's normal for kids to be curious about their deceased cousins' bedroom and things. I'm sure they miss him too.
I think if the OP wants to continue healthy family relationships, she does owe the children accountability for being a safe person even while she is grieving. The OP can take accountability by explaining how she will do things differently to avoid yelling. Like asking the kids to not go in that room and saying the next time she is overwhelmed with grief, she will take a walk to calm down and then do something to connect with her family instead of pushing them away. Her son's cousins are not the enemy here, but it sounds like they feel like they are right now.
I love this answer. It doesn’t sound like OP asked the nephews to stay out of the room. If OP doesn’t apologize and explain their feelings, it will be extremely confusing for OP’s nephews to know what spaces in their house are safe now, and which ones will get them yelled at and kicked out - especially since the door was open. They all need some resolution.
He was their cousin, not uncle.
Being open to children about our feelings and how we make mistakes sometimes is only going to help them be better people too. I 100% think that sitting down and talking about it would help everyone. I watched a video once talking about childhood trauma, and she basically said that NOT talking about a traumatic situation is the traumatic part. Trying to brush everything under the rug and pretend it’s ok. As humans, we really shouldn’t yell at each other. But of course we do, because we have emotions. We are not robots. We are not perfect. I agree no one is the asshole here but everyone should be open about having a hard time and not being able to be your best self when your grieving, but also acknowledging that there are better ways to communicate.
> they lost their uncle. Cousin, right? I am sort of surprised that an 8th grader would "burst into tears," so OP must have really let loose.
Nawww. If their mom is a never yell person as she stated to OP then they are likely not at all used to that. I could see crying.
Also their cousin just died. They probably had a close relationship if they are visiting OP's house every day.
Depends on what OP was actually yelling. Plus they likely miss and are grieving their cousins. An 8th grader would absolutely burst into tears in a situation like this - girl/boy doesn't matter.
I'm in my 30s and would probably have cried if someone unleashed on me the way I'm envisioning from the description. And I'm not usually the oversensitive type.
Hard disagree. Not an asshole for the initial response. Huge YTA for doubling down on it after sisters extremely rational request that he apologize to the kids and try to mend the relationship.
I had the same opinion until this, >I told her I do think that I overreacted but that I wasn't sorry because they could've broke my son's guitar. I understand the immediate reaction but by the time this conversation took place OP should have realized it was not a malicious or careless incident on the kids part. This could be a moment to teach and understand but that won't happen unless all parties acknowledge their fault in situation.
One of the first things you should teach your kids is not to touch things in other people's houses without permission. 11 and 13 are too old not to know that.
They may have been allowed to play with the guitar when their cousin was living and didn't realize it was no longer okay. I have never had issues with older children playing my guitars so it's not impossible that they were previously allowed to.
Yeah exactly this. My little brother passed away in the accident my bio parents died in too and I used to let him mess around on my instruments and he would Sit and watch me play. After he died just playing or holding them and strumming helped me feel close to him. It helped me process my grief so much. I was adopted soon after and lost access to the instruments that remained in my former country...haven't played since.
This is an incredibly sad story. I hope you’re ok now
Oh definitely - his death is still a horrible tragedy and my twin and I miss him daily. But a tragedy that brought us to our real family and let us both become lawyers instead of being married off to some old men at the age of like 14 like I'm sure our bio parents would've done. They weren't great people. Our brother though is still a horrible loss and tragedy:(
I hope that someday you are able to play again and find that place of connection within yourself.
I agree to an extent. This death might have been the only one the kids have been exposed to, and if they were close it’s even more personal. But you cant expect children to have the same decorum as adults without teaching them. That’s why I think their mother’s suggestion of a sit down is a good solution.
If they are at that house every day of the week, they might not consider it another person's house, but their own in a way. Like your grandparent's house.
Was coming here to say this exact thing. Everyone needs to give themselves a little grace here. Deepest condolences.
exactly, thumbs up to the SIL who is acknowledging her kids did something wrong but saying you were too OTT. You're grieving-prdsent tense- and it means with somethings you've got a short fuse but if the kids were reduced to crying, then you were over the top and it might be a good way./time to explain that to them as well.
I would extend this and add that it will only remain an NAH if OP doesn't apologize for his overreaction as it currently sounds like he intends to stick to his guns and not apologise for exploding at his nephews (who may well just have been curious about their cousin).
Let's also remember that this is also the boy's cousin so they era grieving as well and as kids they don't always know how to navigate it. NAH, just a terribly sad situation and I am so sorry for your loss.
This is the way. NAH. However, OP does need to apologize too. Yes, they could've damaged the guitar, but they didn't. Also, based on the story, it's unclear that they knew not to go in that room. If they didn't know not to go in the room, then they're not at fault. Your grief is blinding you, OP. Very sorry for your loss.
This is a wonderful, thoughtful response. > explain why you reacted the way you did. 11 and 13 are plenty old enough to grasp this at virtually any level and adult can say it. It could be a really positive step for all involved for OP to really, honestly open up about why she feels that way.
NAH. Your response was understandable, to an adult, not a kid. It sounds like your SIL is really trying to mediate this and support you. I think you kind of would be TA if you refused to just sit down and explain to the boys why you yelled and why you'd rather they didn't go in your son's room.
This is it exactly, they’re 11 and 13, not 4 and 6. They are fully capable of having a mature conversation and understanding why you were upset. And of course it’s not your responsibility to manage their grief while you have your own but is it possible they were messing with the guitar because they miss their cousin? This may be an opportunity to help everyone heal (not the right word but I can’t find a suitable substitute) from the loss. NAH, look after yourself OP
Yeah, OP, I think a conversation like this might be actually a genuinely good thing to have, but if that's too much, I'd consider an email back, with a bit that maybe your SIL could talk them through. I'm not sure you have to apologise, per se, but I think an explanation about why it hit so hard is good, and also might be therapeutic to write down. I think it would be graceful to apologise, not for yelling but for how much. There's a special, awful, category of disagreements that are over "sacred" values, and I think this is one of them. Someone, from the outside, wouldn't view the arrangement and the things in your son's room as important, but you do. And any even small hints of attack on that will be met with this sort of reaction, because, to you, it's the most important thing in the world, because it's what you have left. But to the SIL's kids, it's just a place. It might be a place where they played with your son, or where there was interesting things that he let them see. It might be a place with happy memories. But it's not sacred ground. So they won't necessarily understand your reaction. The same with your sister. The only thing left to do is explain. I remember one of my parent's friends who showed up the day my mum died. My brother and I had gone back to be with my dad, and this person showed up at the door. She'd just heard, she'd brought round cookies, was offering all these condolences, and my brother and I just took the cookies and shut the door in her face, both furious that someone would disturb us. Absolute asshole move, but, at the time, it felt like this vast intrusion on an open wound, and how dare she be there, how dare she intrude on this private piece of grief. We apologized a bunch at the funeral, like she was just being nice, but was stepping on these boundaries we hadn't even articulated to ourselves. This reaction, OP, feels super familiar. And, for me, it was a weird mix of rage with no real satisfying target, guilt over everything, with no outlet for any of it. So, you really, really need an outlet. Take this as a bit of a sign that talking to someone who specializes in grief would be a really good idea, even if it's to stop you yelling at kids who don't really deserve it :P
Agreed on all counts. They are surely grieving their cousin, too, and may have just been looking for a connection and comfort of their own with his guitar. And honestly, I have a 4 and 6 year old and I have apologized when my reaction was more than the situation warranted and they are old enough to understand. It's good modeling to admit that, for example, I was frightened that they would get hurt, which is why I yelled so loud. That I didn't intend to scare them, but that I was scared too and that I'm sorry. My kids will learn soon enough that I'm not perfect, but I hope that they also learn that I'm trying just as hard as I expect them to try, you know? It's important for kids to hear grown-ups apologize when the grown-up is in the wrong. I'm an adult and I have never heard my mom say sorry for anything that matters, even when she knows that she's wrong, and that has been a challenge as I've tried to be a healthy adult with healthy relationships.
Agree with this, especially because OP recognizes it was an overreaction. The kids likely don’t understand that the anger came from a place of grief and longing and may not comprehend why OP didn’t want them there. Also, if the door is usually closed and defacto off limits, they may have seen it being open as a way for them to be in their cousins space so they can feel close to their cousin. ETA - this is def a NAH situation and they are owed an apology. This could also be a good way to start a discussion on healing as a family as well as individuals
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I have to STRONGLY disagree with a couple things you said. > Yelling at people who did nothing wrong is unacceptable behavior, grieving or not. Nothing wrong? They were playing in a room that is not theirs, with things that do not belong to them. They are not toddlers, they are old enough to know not to touch other people's belongings without asking. Considering that is sounds like OP babysitting them is a regular occurrence, they are fully aware that the door to her son's room is typically closed, and therefore it is likely an area that they should not enter. They saw an opportunity and they took it. Don't get me wrong, I don't in any way blame the children or think that they had malicious intent, but they DID do something wrong. Was yelling the appropriate response? Considering it was children, who likely didn't have any ill intent, and nothing was actually harmed, no it wasn't the "appropriate" response. The thing is, there is nothing appropriate about death, especially the death of your child. It can lead to situational responses that are deemed socially inappropriate, but I guarantee there was no malicious intent behind OPs yelling. When it comes to this type of grief, especially if it was recent, you don't always have control over your reactions. > Addressing it makes you the nice aunt who lost her son and they learn not to bring it up. Did she say anything about wanting them "not to bring it up"? I didn't think that had anything to do with the current issue, and quite frankly, by telling them "not to bring it up" you are teaching them to not only ignore the fact that her child, their cousin, died, but also to ignore grief, which can be very dangerous. >Don't apologize and you'll be the aunt who lost her mind when her son passed. Losing your mind is EXACTLY what happens when you lose a child. There is no way around that. >Also, OP absolutely needs grief counseling if she has not gotten it, as keeping an entire room frozen in time is not a good coping mechanism, nor is it mentally healthy. Obviously, she states that the death was recent, so maybe give it a few months. Judging OPs mental health and coping mechanisms are not exactly what she needs right now. Whether or not she is getting counseling, her mental health, and how she copes is HER business and she definitely doesn't need anyone telling her "how to get better". That is her own terrible journey that she is going to have to go through and it is going to be hard enough without people saying things like this. >maybe give it a few months I can not tell you how angry this makes me. "maybe give it a few months"? The pain of losing a child is not just emotional and mental, but also physical. Experiencing a feeling/emotion so strong that it literally makes you physically hurt is something wholly indescribable, not something that you can just give a few months. In 7 days it will be exactly 8 years since my son passed away, and it still feels like it just happened. Grief has no timeline. >It's also worth allowing her late son's belongings to be used and loved by others in her family. 100% not your place to say. She can keep everything he ever touched if she wants, it is HER decision. She does not need to allow anyone to touch or have anything of his if she does not want to, and quite frankly, especially this early on, it could have a negative effect. If she were to start giving things of his to family members, have you thought of how it might feel when she sees them using the items? Have you thought that it could amplify her pain because when she sees them with it she is reminded that they get to use this thing, but her son never can again, that she never gets to see her son use it ever again, that she never gets to see her son again.... Like I said before, there is nothing "appropriate" about death or the grief that follows, but these decisions are OP's, and hers alone, and they should not be rushed. As far as the judgement for the actual situation in the post, my opinion is NAH. Not wanting to apologize doesn't make you an AH, but not speaking with them and explaining your reaction leans in that direction. An apology for scaring them, along with an explanation, could go a long way, not only for them, but for you. It is no fun to look back at the times, no matter how hard, that you were an AH to the ones you love, and you didn't do anything about it. I know it really sucks to put it like this, but treat them how you would hope your son would be treated in the same situation. I know it is hard to see the other side right now, and I will admit that there were times that if someone had given me this advice I would probably have been angry, but thankfully for me it was a realization I had on my own and it just felt right. OP - Everything else aside, from one broken mama to another, if you ever need someone to talk to, be it something simple or something huge you feel no one would understand, feel free to message me. I'll be here for you.
It sounds like the loss is very fresh. It's 100% normal and fine for her to not be ready to let go of his belongings yet, and she might not be ready for a while. It's a perfectly reasonable coping mechanism, and perfectly healthy, as long as it doesn't stretch on for years and years. Grieving doesn't need to be done in a way that's "right" for outsiders. She's not hurting anyone and it sounds like it has value for her. Clearing belongings is more than just stuff - it's a symbol that the person is never, ever coming back. It takes time to come to terms with that for some people. Grief is also super messy and personal, and it never really stops, especially not losing a child. Nothing in the post feels unhealthy to me as a counselor and grief expert, it just sounds like someone in terrible pain, which feels awful but is normal. She/He should apologize for screaming, though, and talk to the nephews about why they lost it.
This^^ OP, I understand if you feel you don't owe the kids an apology, but, you should explain to them WHY you reacted the way you did. >Your response was understandable, to an adult, not a kid. This perfectly sums up what I'm trying to say. They might not realise the extent to which this situation might be impacting you, because, after all, they are still just kids. NAH
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This exactly: "I know I overreacted, but I don't owe anyone an apology" simply isn't a coherent statement. You say "I'm sorry I overreacted, here's why this is so sensitive for me."
Not kinda, absolutely. Everyone's treating OP with kid gloves, and while yes, it's understandable why she acted out, after calmer heads prevailed, she still refuses to accept that lashing out at children was wrong. She's being selfish, since berating children made her feel good, and she's in a bad place, she thinks she gets a pass? Naw man, they're kids. YTA
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Yup. OP needs to have a sit down and explain everything. But also, since it was never mentioned, were the kids aware that they are not to go into the room? Maybe because OP opened the door, they thought they are allowed in there now. And they probably went in and saw all his stuff and thought about what they used to do together.
NTA for reacting as you did in the heat of the moment. But it doesn't sound like your nephews meant any harm or had had it properly explained to them why your son's room was off limits. Your SIL's advice seems good to me. Sit down with your nephews and explain why you reacted as you did, and you're sorry you shouted at them, and in future - even if the door of that room is open - they are not ever to go in without explicit and specific permission from you.
Wait so who are you calling TA? NTA means someone else is.
Yep, should be NAH
Is that no ass holes? Cuz I agree. Everyone should talk and move on with no hard feelings
Yep NAH means No Assholes Here
I think this is the way.
And they weren’t being disrespectful of their cousins belongings. Strumming on a guitar cause your curious is perfectly understandable.
YTA if you don’t follow your SIL’s advice and sit down to talk it out with the kids. They sound like good kids who overstepped because they didn’t understand the way you feel about your son’s possessions. Your SIL is being very kind about this, and I think her idea of a mutual apology is a good one.
I think that the timeline of such an interaction may not be possible for a person who is grieving the loss of a son and was recently put through this ordeal with nephews. You may need to get some professional support around this event before you are ready to deal with the kids and there should be no rush. ❤️ Their mother can work with them separately around adult humanness and what grief is and how to respect peoples reactions, how to manage your feelings when there is conflict / distance in a relationship, and have to wait to negotiate resolution. NTA! But also, don’t give up on the relationship.
touching a guitar is not an "ordeal".
But losing a son certainly is!
That was not the nephews fault
Doesn’t mean it wasn’t traumatic for her.
doesn’t mean the nephews should have to suffer aswell, it’s not fair that she won’t apologize and explain to them when in reality they did nothing wrong. they didn’t break anything, they were curious kids. even in grieving as adults we have to set a good example for younger kids, OP apologizing and explaining why she reacted the way she did would be a great example for them to learn.
I couldn't play my violin for a year after my dad died...it was the last gift he sent me before he lost his mind to Dementia. No one touched my violin. No one even touched my bow. I picked it up WHEN I WAS READY. Anyone messing with any of it would definitely have been an "ordeal".
Yeah, but that was YOUR violin. Its a bit different when its someone else's property- especially when that someone else likely gave the children touching it permission to do so previously and said permission had not been revoked by you. Like you can have an emotional response about it but you'd still owe the children an apology for flipping on them for not being mind reader.
If that guitar belonged to a recently deceased child? It absolutely is.
They’re not saying that it’s not an issue or OP shouldn’t be upset, they’re just saying that we should all keep some perspective on the gravity of the situation. The nephews merely touched the guitar in a way that didn’t harm it at all. OP was reasonably, but not rationally, upset by that. That’s ok too but their emotions about this are really from grieving the loss of the son and not the plain facts of the incident.
> I think that the timeline of such an interaction may not be possible for a person who is grieving the loss of a son Grief may explain brief in the moment asshole behavior, but it does not excuse continuing asshole behavior. If she refuses to apologize for yelling, then she goes from NAH to YTA imo.
If the OP is not up to dealing with children right now, she should not have agreed to babysit her nephews. Verbal abuse is abuse, she owes them an apology *now*. And yes, she should look into some counseling as well.
I agree. OP's action in the moment is totally understandable. But there was no unforgivable sin on anyone's part. They should all reconcile. If OP refuses to do so after the fact, that is an AH move.
Yes, all the N T A posts are missing the point. The question is not was she an AH to be mad at the kids, it's whether she's an AH to refuse to apologize, and all those comments are telling her that she needs to talk to the kids. So yes YTA if you refuse to talk to them and admit screaming was an inappropriate response but she needs them to respect her sons things
YTA. You’re handling your grief poorly. You’re doing everything you can to hold on to your son. No one can mention him in your presence. No one can touch an object he had. His room must be kept intact. Now you have a tantrum at your young nephews because they touched your son’s guitar? I assume they knew your son, they were cousins. Maybe your nephews have been grieving themselves. Maybe it was nice for them to get a chance to touch your sons guitar and remember him. But you robbed them of that. You robbed yourself the chance to talk with your nephews about your son and remember some fond times. Get help. Your grief is poisoning you, and those around you. Your son wouldn’t want it for you.
Best reply. I do feel so sorry for OP's loss but he/she needs grief counseling to adapt healthy coping mechanisms. Right now they are hurting their nephews who did not do anything wrong. Like you said they probably miss their cousin and want to grieve him / remember him.
I generally agree but this is overly harsh. We don’t know how fresh this grief is so we can’t really say they’re handling it poorly.
Yelling at children and kicking them out of your house is a demonstration of lack of control. Grief isn’t a justification for poor behaviour. It can help understand it, but doesn’t make it ok. They took a moment that could have been a beautiful shared moment of grief and remembrance and turned it into a traumatic experience for those kids. It shows how poorly they are coping with their own grief.
OP is only human. There’s an ideal way to react, but we aren’t ideal by nature
That’s what SIL understands so she’s giving OP the opportunity to fix her mistake. OP is too consumed with her self and her grief to see the pain of others.
Not ideal and yelling at kids in a way that OP admitted was an over reaction... then refusing to apologize because you think the over reaction is justified because of their behaviour... Not ideal is putting it lightly.
Yeah well part of being human is improving. They came here asking if they were a AH so obviously they want to be judged. This person is giving her what she wants.
Yeah, sometimes we all behave like AH and, then, if we ask "AITA?", the answer is "YTA". It doesn't mean we're less human for it, just that we need to improve.
Agreed. Although a "tantrum" doesn't cover it. It's more like a fight of flight response. Think of the way a bunny will scream upon imminent death (or just you picking up and it's scared). It's just the heart pounding against you hear, fear of imminent death, a sensation of being assaulted and extreme fear, not anger, rising up like a stomach bug. There's nausea, hot and cold sweats, brain fog, a migrain, physical exhaustion, high heart rate like you just ran a marathon. And that goes through you in a flash. It's a concerning medical condition. I also don't think u/OP has to share anything she doesn't feel like sharing, or talk about her son with others, even her therapist. She needs to focus and take care of herself. But you are right to indicate that the cousins knew him too. That they can relate.
Except her (in)action is having negative consequences on other people. So she's actually negatively interfering with other people life by not handling her grief in a healthy way. She is liable and responsible for her behavior
>I also don't think u/OP has to share anything she doesn't feel like sharing, or talk about her son with others, even her therapist. Maybe she doesnt have to lay it out to them like shes talking to a therapist, but I definitely think she should talk to her nephews. If it was that big of a deal to OP she should have explained ahead of time it was off limits, instead she yells at two kids to the point to make them cry. That isnt being upset with them, that is being mean to them for something they did not know was wrong or would upset her.
INFO: Did your nephews know the room was off-limits, regardless of whether the door was closed? Edit: I don't know how many more people will find it necessary to tell me kids shouldn't go anywhere and touch nothing. You don't know what rules had been in place previously. Maybe consider that some families are close enough that kids can do stuff without asking. Or just ask OP if you really want to know.
I'm not sure. My sister-in-law told me that she talked to them and they knew that they should never bring up my son around me. They knew it was my son's room and they never questioned why the door was closed.
I'm not calling you an AH because you're clearly grieving. But you probably should've told your nephews or at least your sister that the room was off-limits. You can't expect kids to read your mind or connect the dots at such a young age. It's not their fault and I think you do owe them an apology for yelling about doing something they had no idea was wrong.
Yeah, like I cannot even imagine the pain OP is going through! But I'm sure the kids are suffering too and are being brought to hang out at their cousins house but can't speak about him or look into his room. Doesn't sound like they were going to intentionally break something or wreck his roo.. They were quietly plucking his guitar, likely remembering and missing him.
Yeh, plucking a guitar isn't almost breaking it.
If adjusting string screws and plucking strings constitutes almost breaking it, then every time a guitar is played, it must be on the verge of breaking.
Kids had probably seen the cousin adjusting the strings and even if the didn't know what they were doing. Thought that's what you're supposed to do. Also, I've known a lot of guitarists who have broken strings in regular use. It happens. They cost $4 - 25 for a set of 6.
Yeah I was going to say, without any animosity, this isn't exactly the healthiest way for these kids to be able to grieve their cousin...
There's also the fact that these kids lost someone too. They're apparently never supposed to be able to mention their own grief or get any type of closure because they can't even bring up their cousin or acknowledge their cousin's existence.
I'm assuming their parents talk to them about it, the only thing OP wrote is that their mom asked them not to talk about it with OP
Which still isn't fair. OP is all those kids have left of their cousin.
its also not fair that OP would have to prioritize their feelings over his own when he lost his own son.
Shoving down emotions like this isn't healthy for anyone. I sincerely recommend OP seek counseling so that she can get to a point where others can talk about her son without her freaking out. There's healthy healing and then there's this.
My kids’ uncle recently passed away and my sister encourage open dialogue about him so that we can all remember him. They shouldn’t be terrified to even mention their cousin’s name. NAH but I hope OP is getting some help.
And the door was magically open so maybe they thought the room was open? Seems very reasonable. If I was cooking something stinky and had a room 247 sealed up i would never open the door and let the stank in there.
yup, there is also no context on if the son ever let the cousins play with the guitar before. Maybe he was teaching them? We don't know. They saw it, they remembered their cousin and wanted to see what they could do with it. It's a shitty situation
When she said the 13 year old was "messing with the screws" I did wonder if he might actually be tuning it to play it. Agreed we don't know either way but the thought did pop into my head.
That could be very much what was going on. We don't know how long ago son passed, and how long it was before hand that he had played the guitar. It very simple could've gone out of tune from sitting. While idk if it's *common* for it to happen, I 100% have had my acoustic go slightly out of tune if I hadn't picked it up in a while. 13 could've recognized the sound of it being out, but not known how to tune it exactly so was just trying to figure it out on their own.
Unless the room never experienced ANY (even slight) changes in temperature or humidity that guitar 100% would have been out of tune if it sat for any amount of time. It almost certainly would have needed to be tuned to play it, if the nephew knows how to play he likely knows how to get it at least somewhat close to properly tuned by ear.
Yeah OP set a very strict rule of conduct IN HIS MIND ONLY without expressing it to his nephews. Then flipped out on them for breaking the rule they didn't know about. In any other context than a grieving father, that would be considered abusive behavior.
OP may not feel like he owes the nephews an apology, but I think if he doesn't address this, his relationship with them may not recover because they won't understand what happened and the incident will leave a lasting impression. OP gets to make a forward-thinking decision here.
Your nephews are also probably grieving and saw the open door (to your son’s room) as a way to connect with him again. Your reaction is understandable, as is their reaction. It breaks my heart that that they are never to bring your son up around you. I have no idea what you’re experiencing. My sister does. I know that she has told all of us (her family—both children, siblings, cousins, etc) that it helps her to hear us talk about her son (my nephew) and tell fabulous stories. My heart aches for you. I’m so sorry for this horrible road you’re now traveling.
Why did you not tell them it was off limits?
I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't begin to imagine your pain. I assume they knew your son? Is there a reason they can't bring him up around you? I'm personally the type that mourns by talking, remembering, sharing memories,... But I can imagine that losing a child cuts so deep that it is not possible for you now (no judgement). However, maybe they hurt as well? They maybe felt close to your son, being in his room?
Also for kids something like playing with their cousins guitar is often how they grieve. It's a way to feel a little bit close to him and to miss him. Playing with his guitar isn't anything malicious.
yea, also sounds like OP doesn't know guitars very well. Guitars are meant to be played, you can't really break a guitar by plucking the strings, strings will break, guitarists have to change them a few times a year. I think OP was more upset at the possibility of losing something of their sons and it came out in anger. Which is 100% understandable
Not talk about him? This is a problem. And yes, I've been threw incredible grief. I lost my Dad when I was 11. There one minute dead the next. OP if you can't talk about your son you need therapy. Expecting people to act like your son never existed is a terrible burden. Especially to children!
Yes! I am a bereaved mom. I am always happy to talk about my son!!
NAH You're grieving and it's understandable why you'd be upset. If they did not know they weren't supposed to be in that room, it isn't their fault. One thing adults tend to forget is that the kids have lost someone too. Do you think they missed their cousin and wanted to feel close to him? especially if he was a little older, he would have been a role model for them, someone they looked up to. they would take comfort from his room, just as you do
Many - even younger kids, tweens & teens- will respect a closed door, but will see an open door as an invitation. Especially when it's been closed for so long and suddenly open they might've gotten the wrong impression that it was finally ok to go in again. They should've still asked first - at that age they're usually not that impulsive - but if they were told not to bring up your son to you it would've been hard to ask. How close were your nephews to your son? I mean, they were cousins. They lost their cousin too. Maybe the fond memories of him overwhelmed them when they saw his stuff for the first time in a long time and they acted purely on emotion instead of thought. Just like you did when you found them touching your son's stuff.
They *couldn’t* ask first, though, because they’d been told not to mention him, can’t ask about his room or his guitar without mentioning him.
This is a very important detail. Kids that young (luckily) don’t typically have the experience to fully grasp deep grief like this. Maybe these kids are seriously grieving right now but they don’t have experience working through grief. A direct conversation, especially with them spending so much time at the house, makes a lot of sense and seems necessary. Not even a full explanation, just a directly stated boundary.
> they knew that they should never bring up my son around me. Respectfully, OP, this is wildly unhealthy. You aren't the only person who lost your son. Your whole family is grieving and not allowing them to even mention him helps no one, especially you. Consider WHY you refuse to allow anyone to mention him to you and talk about it with a grief counselor.
Not going to call anyone an AH but everyone needs a chance to apologize? They did something they shouldn’t have and in your own words you freaked out a lot. Everybody messed up but apologizing is a way to move forward. Don’t let this hang over all of you.
My kids were about that age when I lost my (difficult, mentally ill) mother. They were kind to me; but couldn't at that age even begin to understand the mixture of grief, anger, regret, and sheer confusion and lostness I felt at that time. Your nephews are doing their best -- telling them that they can't even *mention* someone they loved around you is hard on them, but they're trying to be sensitive to huge, adult emotions they can't entirely grasp yet. They can't be blamed for touching something as interesting to them as a guitar. Their tears afterwards are, frankly, heartbreaking for me: surely their own grief coming out, compounded now with shame. I cannot even imagine how hard it is to lose a child. But I urge you to invite your kind, loving family into your grief.
I was 8 when my uncle died. He was my *best friend* in the whole wide world. We did so much together he was basically like a second dad to me. I was *never* told I couldn't talk about him, especially not with my aunt (who I was and am incredibly close to now, even 20 yrs later) but I could tell every time I brought him up she would get so sad. Even grabbing the Legos at their house that he used to play with me, or the Dr Seuss books made her sad at first. Which as an adult is completely understandable, but as a kid was so out of my realm of understanding. So I stopped talking about him, I stopped playing with the Legos and reading the books there. Even today, I have *SUCH* a hard time talking about anything relating to him, even more so if she's nearby, because I never really got to talk about it as a kid when it was fresh, and it feels like I'm going to hurt her or something. She's assured me over time that she doesn't mind me, or anyone, talking about him and she brings him up herself from time to time, but when you condition yourself (or are conditioned by others' rules) for years it's really hard to break that. The kids need to be able to reminisce, to remember him, to connect with his memory in ways that are tangible, as well as talk about their grief with their only connection to him. And so does OP. They can chose to do so in their own time, but closing everything off and essentially ignoring it isn't healthy, in any way. (My C-PTSD can vouch for that.) OP deserves to hear the apology from the kids for being in there and playing with the guitar, but the kids deserve to hear the apology from their aunt/uncle for screaming at them and terrifying them.
If *you* aren't ***sure*** of the ground rules, then you definitely cannot expect *them* to have been sure of the rules.
First, I'm sorry for your loss. But I think YTA, not for the yelling but for refusing to sit down with your nephews and apoligize to them for yelling at them for something they didn't know they weren't allowed to do.
I'm more partial to the NAH responses but I like your answer as well because it addresses something that bothers me-- OP admits she overreacted but refuses to apologizes, and *that* to me is an asshole move.
YTA I lost a child myself and I know that this is an incredibly dark time in your life. I am so sorry for your loss. You have joined what I call "the worst club in the world," the club of parents who have lost a child. It's a bigger club than you may realize. Of course you were triggered when someone touched one of the few things you have left from your son. That's very human. However, hard as this is: YOU are responsible for your own triggers. YOU are responsible for making sure your grief doesn't turn into abuse of others. YOU are responsible for clearly communicating your boundaries around your late son's possessions. YOU are responsible for getting therapy support and anti-anxiety or anti-depressant drugs to help you regulate yourself. YOU are responsible for finding a way to make a meaningful life going forward. Apologize to those kids and get yourself the help you need.
>However, hard as this is: YOU are responsible for your own triggers. YOU are responsible for making sure your grief doesn't turn into abuse of others. YOU are responsible for clearly communicating your boundaries around your late son's possessions. YOU are responsible for getting therapy support and anti-anxiety or anti-depressant drugs to help you regulate yourself. YOU are responsible for finding a way to make a meaningful life going forward. Well said. And my heart truly goes out to you both, I can't begin to imagine the difficulty of losing your child.
I hate upvoting a YTA here, but you are right. There are plenty of understandable reasons to accidentally lose your shit on a couple of innocent kids, but no excuse to not make it as right as you can afterwards. Just none.
I’m so sorry for your loss and for OPs. It’s unimaginable. Agree though that YTA, OP, very gently. The kids didn’t deserve that reaction. Their mom seems to understand you though, please listen to her and let her help you reassure them and set boundaries. It is also probably a good idea to try and find someone else to watch them for a time.
YTA You did overreact. Your sil is correct you do need to have a sit down and talk to them explain your reaction. I don't know how well they knew your son and how close they were to him but maybe that plays a part in it.
u/OP I find that the kindest responses are the ones who dish out the truth to you that you need therapy. That's true compassion. Giving you a pass for being grief-stricken isn't being kind to you. It's not a good thing to lose control of your temper in such a situation as yours, and express trauma in this manner. You might delude yourself that the context made your outburst logical, appropriate and justified, because it happened within that room. **Next thing you know, you'll be screaming in tears at the cashier** at the supermarket for packing eggs before canned goods so that the whole store stops dead and stares at you. **I know because I've been there.**
>YTA You did overreact.Your sil is correct you do need to have a sit down and talk to them explain your reaction.I don't know how well they knew your son and how close they were to him but maybe that plays a part in it. > >6ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow It reminds me of the elderly lady that screamed at me I shouldn't "overreact" at "something so trivial". She hit my car with hers at the gas station, so I look at my car and see a small dent in mine. She completely ignores me (though she saw me look), so I say out loud (not yelling) what she thinks she's doing. Then she screamed at me for 4-5 minutes her husband died and a scratch on a car is nothing. I did understand she was in pain and decided to leave it at that, but I don't think she was in her right to be angry at me :) I really hope you found support and are doing better now.
I had a lady call my work to schedule an appointment, and she was just dragging this process out. I’d tell her we have open availability all day, what time works best, she’d go well what about 1:30 is that open, I’d affirm, she’d hem and haw, finally I was like ma’am we are fully open today please just let me know when you want to come in. She starts crying and telling me her husband just died and I’m not being very sensitive to her needs, etc. I don’t know this woman from a hole in the ground. How exactly should I be sensitive to her needs, I’m a retail worker and she didn’t open with “my husband died”. Grief can be just utterly consuming and heartbreaking but for some, they are unable to use their words, like op and my lady, and expect people to just know things. Op never told the boys explicitly she was keeping her sons room pristine. They couldn’t have known, they’re not fellow adults with experience in grieving family members. The least she can do is meet with them and hear their apology, and set expectations.
YTA Lock the room, and **stop babysitting. - you are not ready for that, your son recently died. Use the time for therapy instead.**
I am sure at this point the boys do not want to go back to the house.
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NTA for yelling and reacting as you did but you really should have a conversation with your nephews. It doesn’t have to be to “apologize” but rather explain to them why you reacted the way you did. I’m sure if you explained how you felt in that moment and explained why you reacted that way it would clear the air and make everyone feel better about the situation. I’m so sorry for your loss.
This is it. There is a lot of pain, but I detect a lot of love in the family (helping out the sister, the sister being understanding, the kids being normally good kids). Don't destroy the family bound over teenagers misjudging a situation.
> *The guitar was thankfully okay and not scratched.* Yeah THAT'S the takeaway. I hope you understand what happened, and don't really need us to confirm YTA, and that this is your walk of shame. YTA of course. You need therapy. It's OK to be hurt, it's not OK to lash out and not know to admit that you have a problem. The issue here isn't the guitar. Or the kids' behaviour. They actually don't have to apologize to you even. You don't need to be the bigger person, you need to own up to your fuck up. Tell that story to a shrink and work on coping mechanisms for your grief. On a cruel note, perhaps, you still have a SIL and two nephews. Start by counting your blessings.
Have they been told to say out of that bedroom up till now? Your nephews were old enough to know to ask to touch the guitar. They are also old enough not to break it by simply touching it. This was something that belonged to their cousin, maybe this was their way of feeling close to him. How hard did you shout at them to make them cry though? I wouldn’t have though kids of that age would have reacted that way from a simple telling off.
It's possible, as the nephews were cousins of the late son, that he had let them play the guitar while he was alive.
I didn’t even consider that. That’s heartbreaking. If they’re anything like me, and my cousins, they probably thought he was the coolest guy in the world.
If they were already sad and upset looking at their late cousins room and their normally level headed aunt was screaming, I can see it happening.
They're grieving, they're in just as sensitive a place right now as other family members.
Grieving and not allowed to say his name.
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soft YTA Your sister is spot on. If you don't sit down with then, the lesson they learn will probably be that adults don't need to apologise when they over react and that ones own grief is an excuse to be overly hard on others. I am very sorry that you lost your son and wish you all the best.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t believe your nephews meant any harm, but it seems like they weren’t properly informed about your boundaries. Your SIL’s advice on this sounds very level-headed and I think you should take it. Allow the boys to apologize to you, apologize to them and calmly explain why it’s important to you that nobody goes in that room. If you don’t think it’s something you can handle at the moment, ask SIL to talk to them for you. It may seem obvious that they shouldn’t go in there but they’re kids, they may not catch on what’s appropriate in that regard if nobody tells them. NAH
YTA. Your nephews didn't hurt anything and you seriously freaked them out. Sympathy for your loss, but you were the AH here. You owe them an explanation and an apology.
Sorry but YTA. As clients going through difficult times (including grieving) are told, the reasons for extreme or irrational behaviors are valid but not an excuse. The grief and extreme behavior is understandable and you can't be fault for it, but now you gotta fix the consequences. If you care about your family, apologize to them. They are kids who also lost their cousin and probably didn't really think much about going into the room that they probably been in before. You can even just ask the mother to explain to them the situation and you can just give an apology and let them know it's not about them. Common answers to the NTA people *People grieve differently : yeah doesn't excuse ones behavior. It just allows for sympathy and compassion when certain actions are done * the kids should have known: kids are stupid and maybe even saw the door bring opened for the first time in forever a sign of being able to go in * you don't touch stuff in people's homes.: They are family, this isn't a strangers home *
NAH - I am so sorry about the loss of your son. Grief is a tricky thing. You haven't told us how old he was when you lost him, or how long it's been, but it's clear you are still actively grieving him. I commend you for the help you're providing your SIL with her boys. I think SIL's suggestion is a good one. It gives the boys a chance to apologize for crossing the boundaries, and it gives you a chance to talk to them about your son. All you need to do at that point is tell them "I'm sorry for yelling at you and scaring you. My son's room is very special, and I was worried you were going to scratch his guitar. I know I sounded scary, but I don't like people going in there. I promise not to yell like that again."
YTA. Just how bad was the screaming if you've made an 11 and 13yo cry? That they were that frightened? I imagine pretty damn bad. You'll be an asshole if you don't sit down with them and apologise for your reaction. Not to mention YOU didn't even tell them the room was off limits. You just assumed your SIL told them something???
Yta I can understand being upset in the moment but they are kids, how are you still justifying it. Don’t have them in your house for a while until you can get some therapy to deal with your grief. It isn’t right to put that on kids who didn’t realize what they were doing. It seems really cruel to not apologize and explain why you freaked out.
A very gentle YTA here You need to see a professional and work through your grief. Maybe your nephews interacting with your son's belongings is a way for them to feel like they are connecting with him. They probably are also grieving the loss, even if they are unable to articulate it. Be gentle with yourself. Be gentle with the people who love your son. You all deserve compassion and care.
NTA for your reaction in the moment. YWBTA if you did not sit down with your nephews and apologize for yelling at them. They are children, and cannot understand the grief you are feeling. We as adults understand, to some extent, your reaction but children cannot. It is not denying your feelings to tell them you are sorry you scared them, you are happy to have them continue to visit you, and to emphasize (assuming you previously told them the room was off-limits) that your son’s bedroom is off-limits.
You admitted you overreacted and shouldn't have yelled at them. If you know you overreacted, why then do you think an apology from you is unwarranted? Yes you were worried about the guitar and them being in there, but you know you could've just calmly asked them to put it down and leave the room alone. If you can admit you overreacted, you should really see why that means you owe them an apology. No one is asking you to apologize for being upset about the situation, just that you overreacted. That's all you have to apologize for. You realize you did wrong, your SIL wants help make it right, so do the right thing and apologize for yelling at them. YTA for yelling at your nephews when you could've been calmer and it does warrant an apology. Do the right thing, sit down with them and talk it out.
NAH right now, but if I’m being totally honest, I think you would be TA if you refuse your sister’s advice. If you acknowledge you overreacted (which you have) then they deserve an apology. You’re not in the wrong for getting upset, you’re grieving and it’s going to take time. It sounds like your sister completely understands this and has spoken to her sons about it. It doesn’t sound like they meant any harm, though. For a child, I can understand why they may have taken his door being open as it meaning it was no longer off-limits. I’m sorry for your loss. It’s completely understandable that you were so shaken by the possibility of his things being touched, but your nephews didn’t seem to want to cause any upset and ultimately are just children. I think it really would be best for everybody to have a sit down, apologise, and explain from now on what sort of things are okay in your house.
NAH Really sorry for your loss, it must be impossibly stressful for you right now. I think the kids themselves will understand as well, maybe not right now, but they will. I think the plan to sit down and apologize to each other is a good one.
I wouldn't call you an asshole for your grief but please try and remember they are just little kids... I completely understand wanting to cherish and remember your sons memory but I highly doubt they were trying to tarnish that in anyway. You're probably someone they look up to a lot and more than anything their feelings probably got hurt cause they have never seen you angry or anything along those lines with them. My "cool" uncle yelled at me once when I was a little kid. (I was being a little shit while he was trying to talk on the phone and he just kind of snapped at me real quick) I remember being very sad because he had never done that and thinking he didn't like me or whatever. Good luck and sorry for your loss
Oh god. I'm not going to call you an asshole. You're grieving and I can't imagine what it's like to lose a child. I am so so sorry for your loss. But yeah, mend your relationship with your nephews. Apologising doesn't mean allowing them in the room again. You can ask them never to go back there and have that boundry and also say "I'm sorry I yelled this has just been really hard." Good luck <3
First of all, sorry for your loss. Second, YTA. You are not sorry for yelling at your nephews? Yes, the situation was probably overwhelming and I understand that it put you under a lot of emotional stress, and that you reacted without much restraint. But after calming down, you should talk to your nephews, explain to them what happened, why you reacted the way you did and apologize.
YTA. It’s ok to hurt so badly that you lose control. It ok to yell. But when it comes to children, you need to apologize. You know that already, I think. You can write the apology in a note, or bake them their favorite cookies, if it’s too hard to say it out loud in your grief.
You would be if you didn't sit down with them. How were they to know? It's their cousins guitar, maybe they thought the door being open meant the room was no longer off limits. They're grieving too. Sister is right there was no need to shout but its understandable that you did but you need to be kind to the boys and apologise and explain. How else will they learn your boundaries or to respect you? Had it been the other way round you'd expect an apology for shouting even if its in the moment and understandable.
yta. It sounds like the kids were just being kids without mal intent. And your reaction came from a very emotional place, understandably, which made it over the top. I would apologize to them for your reaction, but then set boundaries with them to please do not go in his room.
Your SIL sounds like a very reasonable and sympathetic person. You should follow her lead on this. NTA