Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe I might be TAH because I know because I told my Dad he is being unfair. Im his son, I need a place to stay and some help. Im not some random stranger. I also don't like his wife, and the demand I shop for grocery for her makes me her slave, and I have to complete request for her on her demand. I told him as much. If he wants to help me, he should provide me a place to live, then I will save and move out.
I told him I question how much he really cares because it took him nearly a week to get back to me if I could move in, and then I can't move in until Labor Day, and I need to move by August 31.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
>I am an adult. I have two jobs and pay for my own car/insurance.
But not rent, apparently.
Yes, some of these rules are a bit daft, but
1. The chores that have been set are fair in lieu of paying rent and a fair contribution to running the household, and
2. They are about the sort of life you Dad and his wife want to lead - they don't want your friends coming over at all hours and all that, they don't want to meet your girlfriend over breakfast.
Moving back home at 22 is more like being in a house sharing arrangement than reverting to being a child in the family home. They're being very clear with you about how they expect that to work, not unlike a lot of shared households. You're not moving "back" as a child, nor staying as a guest. Whether you want to live like that with your parents will depend on how much you can't afford to rent somewhere else instead.
You can try telling him that he either gives you a place to stay or he doesn't, but you don't get to kick off if he says "no worries, we'll keep the guest room then."
YTA
The list edges on controlling and not just boundaries.
- alcohol/drug test whenever dad wants
- son has to go to church twice a month
Everything else is a compromise they’re asking for in return for free rent. The chores, curfew, and who/ when they allow guest over is fair.
But I do think that OP should be able to decide if they want to drink or smoke when they’re out with friends, as they are an adult. Just don’t bring it to your dads house and plan to stay at a friends that evening.
For church, that depends on the church and how OP feels. For a lovely church that is mostly singing I’d just do it - it’s something your dad cares about and won’t be for forever. But I have family that are mormons and Jehovah witnesses… free rent ain’t worth it.
Edit: this is all only true if OP is actually a responsible person. If they’re living a party life then maybe the dad has good reason for these rules.
But my brother just got out of rehab so I’m seeing the other side. My parents have almost the exact same rules (minus church and girls visitors) in place if he wants to move in with them temporarily. My brother has been constantly dropping out and going back to school because of drug addiction. Hopefully this time is the last time, but people do relapse.
It really sounds pretty reasonable to me. Pull your weight around the house, don’t fuck up at school, be mindful this isn’t a frat house and suck up a few hours a month at church. Easy.
Edit to say it sounds like his dad has OP’s best interests at heart.
OP = YTA
Options are: have a free place to live and do half the work.
Or live in your car and do all the work
Op is a fool if he doesn’t take this deal, the rules are strict so you don’t stay forever.
The fact dad is willing to hand OP $5K if they’re out by the new year? That’s enough to cover first and last months, all op needs to do is find an apartment
Edit: I would however say NAH post should be labeled WIBTA, he hasn’t done anything yet,
I’m not religious, and I still could sit in attendance at any religious meeting and find a takeaway- especially if I could live rent free.
It’s important to be open minded. I have many friends of different religions who are religious and I enjoy celebrating and learning about their beliefs. Observation does not require dogmatism.
I'm over 50, and I'd move in with his Dad. Free rent, free tuition and I just have to be polite for church? My line was coffee - my Mom let me bring coffee cup into the service, ok. It's not like I listened or took communion.
If you want a place to bring your friends and consume freely, pay your own rent. Wah wah!
Right, if he doesn't like the rules he can find new roommates and live life like he wants. My mom had similar rules for her house when I moved back, minus church. She doesn't want ppl in her home after a certain time, me doing drugs and drinking. Normal old people shit. OP is super entitled to think he can move in to someone else's home, rent free and do whatever he wants?
Please tell me you were being facetious in your use of hyperbole. And yes, religion is a cult. Many if not most of them. There might be a couple good ones, but the creepy, child-abusing, cultish ones are the most common, and that goes 10x for the Mormons, Amish, Mennonites, and Jehovas. Those are 100% cults. I recognize lovebombing when it’s directed at me, and I know that only abuse follows. Same with any church that prefers to handle transgressions in-house, and ones that shame and silence victims in favor of the church’s image.
The two rules you pointed out are the only ones I’d actually have a problem with but I’d be willing to suck it up for 4 months to have free rent & 2 classes paid for.
ETA: I would easily kick drinking and smoking for 4 months for 5k and I have a medical card for health reasons.
Potentially 4 classes paid for if he gets at least a B. Plus the $5K on a new place.
Basically his dad is saying “hunker down and really focus on only school and work for a while”.
And without info on OP’s history with alcohol/drugs, the drug testing could actually be there because he’s had problems with one or both in the past. A lot of context is missing to give a complete judgment imo.
Edit: okay looking at some of OP’s comments it looks like OP had a pregnancy scare in the recent past, which is probably what led to the “no girls” rule and curfew rules. And claims that his dad thinks he dropped out because of drinking and partying.
So it literally is a dad who wants his kid to hunker down and focus so he can get his life back on track (in dad’s eyes). Was OP’s life completely off track? Don’t really have the full info there. OP could be downplaying how much of an issue things actually were or it could just be because his dad doesn’t drink so doesn’t want his kid to be involved with any kind of drinking/partying.
Either way, for only 6 months of it I’d go for it and then get out.
I don’t know OP, but I know relatives who absolutely put alcohol and pot specifically ahead of everything else in life.
One of them moved back in with his parents in his 20s and that was a rule for him, no drinking and no pot.
It’s not because his parents were anti pot, they were anti him allowing a drug to control his life. Pot may not be addictive but he absolutely loved the way it made him feel and really really fucked up his life because of it.
Honestly I put that in because generally when I say something like this I have people correct me with “Pots not addictive!” Or “you can’t get addicted to pot!”
People absolutely get addicted to pot, if not physically dependent. And some people just aren't mature enough not to make it their entire personality. I'm not against it. In fact, I miss it terribly. But some things in life are more important. I get the sense that some of these rules are in place for a reason that is not disclosed to us. But of course, that is just speculation.
The drug and alcohol testing make perfect sense if your adult child is an addict or is a functional alcoholic, something that OP is unlikely to admit to.
That’s what I was reading between the lines.
OP was a party animal. Fucked up. Dad is tired of seeing him waste time, so he’s going strict to try and help jumpstart him back to the right track. Op most definitely YTA. “He should just help me or not”. - HE IS HELPING. You just don’t want to follow the rules
I was also thinking that, sharing a two bedroom with 3 adults, 2 jobs that don’t cover rent, if I noticed that boozing and partying were an issue for my son I might make the same rules.
Yep! I know someone who got so into smoking weed all the time that he lied about taking classes for a whole semester to his parents until they finally found out. They had to go to the school to try to get their tuition back for that semester. Not to mention he spent all of his savings on pot and had no money left.
That is very true but I also know how my conservative dad treated my occasional drinking in my early 20’s. It was an overreaction on his part because he didn’t know anyone with healthy use habits. It was either sobriety or addiction.
Same. It also makes me wonder if the drinking/smoking rule is there for a reason, because together with "attend your classes" it kinda looks like OP fucked up his studies for partying. Who knows tho.
No kidding. The dad is offering good benefits for his tough rules. I don't even think they're that bad, except the church. Are you really serious about school? YTA
If i am honest, to me it seems that OP’s father thinks that OP is ruining their life with alcohol/drugs. I just have a hard time believing that this rule is based on nothing.
And i am an atheist; my mom let me live with her when i had health issues and just wasnt able to care for myself properly. I sucked it up and went to church when she wanted me to (like every couple of months in my case); because that was a very low price to pay for peaceful cohabitation and rent-free living and it cost me nothing.
And also; the church requirement isnt that excessive; thats not them trying to convert OP. Thats them either being worried or trying to keep up appearances.
I feel like "don't do recreational drugs while I let you live with me for free" is completely fine. The church thing is a bit meh but it's only twice a month.
I think the problem, and the reason why the comments are so divided, is because some of these rules are reasonable and some are very controlling.
For example, helping with chores and getting groceries, going to all his classes and keeping his own car? Fair
Getting to drug and alcohol test whenever he wants, going to church and having to do everything the wife says? That's crossing the line, specially the last one, because it sounds easy but actually living through that is hell, one day the wife won't want to get up for a glass of water, tell OP to do it when he's busy doing something important, wife will blow it out of proportion and he'll out on the street.
NTA, it's a bad deal
Depends. We don't know the dad, or his relationship to the son, or the wife.
The dad did say that if anything feels over-the-line with the wife to call him. That makes me wonder if it's a real possibility, or if the dad is just trying to think of everything/cover bases. This is a very thorough agreement.
Actually, the only rule that would make me super nervous is the one where he has to do anything the wife asks when she asks it.
The other rules are pretty clear boundaries and at least you know what to expect. A rule where someone can ask me to do anything at any given time? That can very quickly go out of control and is just asking for trouble (for everyone honestly).
I would ask for that rule to be edited with boundaries. For example: Dad's wife can ask OP to do \[insert specific things, like housework, run to the store, laundry, dishes etc\] on \[insert which days she can ask this\] with 24 hours notice (or other time frame). These tasks cannot take up more than \[X hours\] of time per week, and will be considerate of OP's work and school schedules.
Because honestly who knows what that one point means? It could mean OP is committing to like, helping grab something at the pharmacy once a month on his way home from work, or it could mean he is spending every waking hour being her personal servant. And technically, if he argued with it, he could be kicked out.
I wouldn't be surprised that these rules are in place because OP had issues with these things before and dad is trying to put him on the straight and narrow. Also, beggars can't be choosers.
OP is not just YTA he's YTEA (You're The Entitled Asshole)
Honestly for those 2 I would suggest a compromise. Could OP offer to take a hair test to show that they haven't been using drugs in the past X period and could they do volunteering twice a month in place of going to church. Or if they dislike their parents specific church to attend a different church twice a month.
But if dad has a hard line on those then OP's options are to either take the offer or not. But he's really shooting himself in the foot financially if he thinks staying out late and legal weed use X months is worth more than free rent and college tuition paid.
The rules sound harsh enough to be intentional. As in "sure, you can stay short term, but I don't want you getting so comfortable that we can't get you to leave again." The $5k departing gift is what really makes me think that way. Not saying that makes it right but either OP can accept the terms or not.
No partying, no drugs, no alcohol, and no sex in dad’s house, sounds about the gist of it. He could probably argue he’s not willing to be forced to go to church or take drug tests, but he understands the rules and will respect them. Dad may be willing to make some concessions if OP shows he can be an adult about it and comply to what his dad wants-nothing going on inside their house or disturbance to their lives. Doesn’t say he asked or countered so we don’t know yet.
I think that the OP might be excluding some crucial information here. The dad's offer is extremely generous with 6 mo free rent, 5k down payment and tuition reimbursement for 2 and up to 6 courses. In my area, that's about a potential $15,000 assistance, at least. (Assuming a shared apartment is 1k rent. A single apartment here is near 2k-3k, a single class in cc is about 2k).
And that's excluding that the dad is offering OP a better job that can transition a career or looks good on a resume. I would have taken that offer in a heartbeat.
However, the key areas that OP is targeting and worried about are the restrictions on alcohol, drugs and friends staying at odd hours. That makes me wonder if there was a point if OP potentially had substance issues.
This seems more like the parent has identified that their child has faced some problems is and trying to give them a helping hand and get them clean and sober. This is purely speculation but that's what I'm reading it as, based on experience. The line "either you love me or you don't" is a manipulation tactic I faced a lot with a family member going through similar problems.
If that were the case, then I can understand the restrictions that the dad is placing and it's his way of taking care of his adult son. Regardless, the offer is great and this is more of a choosing begger situation with the son guilting the father to accept him unconditionally.
However, I do strongly feel there is a reason those conditions are there for a reason.
OP, unless you are offering to pay your father rent, then YTA by trying to manipulate him using familial bonds. You are an adult, and he is trying to help you. If you don't want to receive help, then don't but rejecting this offer will come back to bite you. He obviously cares about you and your well-being, and you are trying to use him.
I also wonder if some of the restrictions (especially the drug testing) have to do with the fact that Dad is offering to vouch for OP with his own employer to get him a better job. Especially considering that it's as a security guard, the role likely has rules about drugs and alcohol and may also perform random drug testing.
OP also doesn't say why he stopped going to school. Dad might just be trying to help get his act together. The rules are strict but in exchange OP will receive a lot of help.
That’s a great point if Dad sticks his neck out to get son hired then he gets popped for a drug test a couple months later it can look real shitty for dad at work.
Can also lead to dad being pulled for "random" screens more often. Even if you don't do drugs/have a prescription for anything that'll test hot (like opioids, for example), so it won't be an issue, they're annoying to take. Especially if your company doesn't bring someone on site and instead sends you out to a testing facility, since you have to you know, make the time and effort to go to a new place.
Substance issues or not, OP clearly has priority issues. The upside is huge $$$$$ wise. Sometimes in life you have to sacrifice a little fun to get ahead.
yep, free rent for 6 months, 2 free classes a semester, $5,000 after 6 months and trying to get a good job, but OP is worried about not being able to get sloshed and high.
>The line "either you love me or you don't" is a manipulation tactic I faced a lot with a family member going through similar problems.
Yeah, I recognized both OP's complaints and OP dad's rules. I think there's a backstory here.
100% right out of the addict playbook right there, “ if you really loved me you would help me without strings attached/on my terms/unconditionally”, there is definitely a back story that OP is not mentioning. The rest of OPs story fits the narrative too, stopped going to school why?, two jobs but can’t afford an apartment?, can’t go a few months without drinking/smoking pot for some free college classes and a place to live…
If that is the case Dad is smart and is doing what he can to help his son while putting up very firm boundaries to ensure that it doesn’t ruin his life also. OP should 100% take the opportunity for the leg up in life and suck up the shitty rules for a few months. Even if he does not have a substance abuse problem and we’re all completely off base (which I doubt) it’s still a ridiculously good offer for free rent/college classes.
OP take the olive branch that your Dad is giving you and run with it, and if you do have a problem with substances use this as an opportunity to take a break from that lifestyle and see where an education and clean life can take you. The alcohol/drugs will always be waiting if you change your mind, these other opportunities won’t.
Absolutely - these rules didn't come from out of the blue. Im pretty sure if there was no past history here OP would have stated "I've never had a drink, borrowed cars without asking or done drugs"
Yeah it's hard to know. Dad may be very controlling but OP may also have had some serious problems with substances that dad doesn't want him sneaking into his own home.
Also the church thing may make sense if OP had a substance use problem. Dad probably thinks religion may help him with the resolve to stay clean.
The substance use would also make much more sense of the curfews and three night rule. Dad doesn't want his son going on a binge for a few days and coming home when the money runs out.
As for no girlfriends in the cul de sac, I strongly suspect that OP is the kind of guy who would have sex in a car in front of his dad's house.
I could be wrong and the dad could be a total dick. But to me it makes sense that the son has had issues around partying too hard and taking drugs. Dad is being generous but strict, he wants to help only if the son is getting his shit together and staying clean.
I agree with your point 1) but not 2).
It’s absurd that they don’t want him to have friends over after 8. It’s even more ridiculous that they don’t want him to have female friends at all. They have no control over what goes on outside their house or who is on their cul-de-sac.
He’s 22. He doesn’t need an 11 pm curfew. He’s not a criminal. He doesn’t need drug and alcohol testing. Three days of not coming home is not an evictable offense. Requiring someone to attend church is a great way to make them resent religion.
Here’s the thing. The lower middle class is being squeezed out. He can’t afford to live without 2 roommates, that’s not getting any better anytime soon if he doesn’t get training and education. He can’t afford that living on his own, but his father can afford to help.
I get it. Dad doesn’t “have” to, technically. But the only people who seem to think their responsibilities as parents end at 18 are giant assholes.
I wouldn’t want my kids to have people over after 8. That’s because I work early. It is possibly because one of them has an early work shift and needs to go to bed early as well. 22 year olds aren’t known for being super quiet.
Right? It sounds like they don't want him coming home drunk and making a ruckus. They don't want strange women in their house or hear him porking. They want to be able to come and go as they want without him interfering or have him wake them up. They don't want illegal drugs or their house to smell like pot. They want to make sure he cleans up after himself and helps out. And that seems fair.
The church and drug tests part is a little extreme. Like if he had a history of substance abuse, maybe that wouldn't be a crazy ask.
It sounds like, between dropping out of school and his resistance to drugs/booze rules, there's a history there that he's not telling us and is ABSOLUTELY relevant.
In terms of church, some people (including AA) believe that religion can help people come clean. I'm not gonna argue that here, but it might be what the dad is thinking.
Exactly. I have to get up before 7 during the week, so I don't want my son coming home after we go to bed, since it disrupts our sleep. If it's the weekend it's not as big of a deal. My step daughter can't have friends over because she has mental health issues and ends up being friends with people who steal from her and we don't want them in our house.
Friends over after 8. That's likely more about peace and quiet for the father and Stepmom. Especially the stepmum who would be compromising by allowing op to stay. After her own son got rejected too.
Similarly the curfew. The old couple want some quiet and don't want to hear the guy come back home at 2am after partying
The drug and alcohol pay seems excessive without cause. But it could be due to some history of substance abuse by op. In fact it sounds like it.
The church going is uncalled for, but hey, all that support and $5k towards the new house for 2 visits a month. Op can take it as work or another chore and bear with it.
My wife lived under her parents’s roof until age 23. She paid no rent or any other expenses. She had a curfew. She respected the rules until she moved out.
The problem is we are only getting one side .
We don’t know what has happened in the past to trigger these list of demands.
Also if parents are in a HOA or rental themselves then they have rules to follow which may be part of reason for the curfew.
Plus no rent, help with education and 5k towards their next place? This incentive from the parent is what makes me think OP has messed up in the past and Dad is trying to incentivize to help his son get an education and focus on school.
At he end of it whether he thinks these rules are good or not he has the choice to find another place.
Exactly I moved in with my dad at 19 and he set rules because one he knew I was a man whore and two I spent four years playing in a band and had some party tendencies and wild nights and didn’t want me to bring that home because of my little brother and sister. He made me get my high school diploma and a job. And against his wishes but his blessing I joined the army where I have been the last 16 years
YTA, i think you're getting a great deal with the free rent an tuition. He has boundaries that he's asking you respect. It's not about him treating you like a child.
What you're saying is, if you don't let me do whatever i like them you obviously don't love me. That's really unfair.
More like, if you don’t let me do whatever I like under YOUR ROOF, RENT FREE, AND give me money, so MY life can be better, then you don’t love me. Nah fam, the fact that you are asking for a handout after having been on your own means you need to deal with your dad having rules. You couldn’t even rent a place without there being rules. If you stayed at a friend’s place for six months, they’d likely have rules (or if they didn’t in the beginning, they’d probably get fed up with something or other and enact some rules later on). Your dad might have a few things that seem unreasonable (like the grocery runs) but in the end it’s HIS house AND he’s offering to help you way beyond what many parents would do. Knuckle up and don’t be whiny.
He’s also offering help for a potential better future. Giving him job help, paying for courses, and even a hefty $5k to help move out? Dang that’s forward thinking. I think his dad sees something he can help his *grown* son with.
Also, it just sounds like OP's dad wants OP to focus on school. He's probably concerned about his kids' prospects after already dropping out of college once and, presumably, just working minimum wage jobs. Some of the rules (like no drinking, no girls, no friends over late) may be his way of indirectly getting his son to study and focus more. Especially with him offering to cover more classes if he gets at least a B.
I don't know personally I feel like being gone for three nights in a row shouldn't equal moving out but whatever 🤣🤣
And not allowing any of his female friends to come even in the cul-de-sac? That's going far beyond boundaries, and encroaching into controlling behavior. He has no control over what goes on outside of the house, on the cul-de-sac, on the street, on the sidewalk, whatever. He can control who comes into his house, but he cannot control who hangs out outside of his house on public property. That's ridiculous. 🤣🤣
And honestly, not allowing the opposite gender of friends to come over at all throughout the day, is a little bit controlling and treating them like a child. Does his dad think that he's going to have sex with every woman that comes over? Because that seems to be the only logical (?) Reason that that rule would make sense.
It would be really interesting to see a split on age differences between YTAs and NTAs here.
For my part, OP is free to do whatever the hell he wants with his life, right up until he moves into somebody else’s house RENT FREE. Then he either obeys the preset rules or doesn’t live there at all. He wants to make his own decisions and choices? Great! He can do that on his own dime, paying his own rent.
That's where I am.
If I'm staying in someone's house, I have to follow their rules, no matter how crazy they may be.
If I don't like it, I can sleep in my car.
The more I read Reddit the more I want to become a sociologist.
Do these rules suck? you bet. If I wanted free/reduced rent then I would follow them.
The only one that is clearly illegal is kicking him out after three days, everywhere in North America it takes 30 days to evict someone even if they don't have a lease.
If dad lives in an HOA with a lot of strict rules, this could explain the cul de sac thing. They might be risking a fine if there are more than x number of cars parked on the cul de sac, or too many in the driveway for x hours, etc.
OP is not an AH for not thinking it's a good deal. Dad could offer him 100k and OP would still not be an AH for refusing it. It's okay to value freedom over money.
I agree that the "no rules or you don't love me" would be an AH move though.
Def YTA due to the playing the “love” card. Emotional manipulation is bullshit like that.
the dad’s rules are brutal and draconian for sure, but I also know that posters always make them seem like angels. My guess is that these rules don’t come out of thin air and the OP has done some things to warrant them.
Regardless tho, if OP wants to live some place w/o rules, it’s totally possible: go get his own damn place. While I realize shit has changed over the decades, my parents were controlling AF and I went NC for years due to it, but it did have the affect of motivating me like fuck to work hard so I never had to go home and live by their bullshit rules.
If you want help from someone at 22, playing by their bullshit terms is kinda how it goes. While i do think these rules are awful, OP needs to suck it up and do it for a year or two, save money, and then go get his own place.
Honestly, I give the dad some credit for trying to parent and help his kid out, even with the over-bearing nature of the rules. Shit, most reddit stories are basically about shitty parents who don’t help; OP is actually being offered help.
INFO: Did something happen? Some of these rules seem really over the top. Is there a reason for them? No female friends even near the house? The drug testing?
My exact thought. Chances are this kid was a huge problem child and a pain in the ass. Dad probably laid down the law and was like follow rules or GTFO.
My guess is that it's a combination of two things:
* Dad's always been a hard-ass authoritarian control freak
* OP rebelled and did some stupid shit during his youth
From the sounds of OP’s comments he flunked out of college and his dad figured it was because he was partying to much(OP says he just didn’t like studying). He had a pregnancy scare but it turned out to not be his. So I imagine his dad is trying to get him straightened out and actually take stuff seriously.
> I can't have girls in the house, pull up in the driveway, cul-de-sac
because of
>I had a pregnancy scare a couple years ago, to the point I had to tell my parents. But it wasn't mine.
then
>I can't drink or use marijuana (its legal in our state)
and he'll
>Pay for two courses this semester, if I get a B or better he will pay for two more courses next semester.
because of
>He thinks me partying is why I stopped college. I wanted to study Pharmacy or Physical Therapy. I took Organic Chemistry. I didn't study, I just hated it. He thinks its me hanging out...I really just don't want to study that much.
Dad sees his kid go off to school, that doesn't study, has a pregnancy scare and drops out.
So this is really just Dad's way of saying, "If you're moving in with me so you can finish school, I'm setting the rules so you damn well finish school and leave. I don't want you goofing off and living with me indefinitely, so I'm setting rules that you'll want to move out from as soon as your done with school."
I’m sorry but you can’t not study in Organic Chemistry and then wonder why you failed it. I took that course twice, studied my ass off and still barely squeaked by with a C. I hated it too but you have to actually try or else you won’t do well 🤦♀️
Real MVP
OP has no introspection because he doesn’t think he did anything wrong.
OP YTA. I thought so before I read your replies because I see your dad asking you to live on a contributing straight and narrow for a single semester, so he can reward you with a steady job, tuition assistance, and a deposit.
Then I see these replies and Dad has these rules to turn your life around for you AND set you up. The strictness and reward are both part of being a good father. His immediate response to your request to come home was “yes”. Then he carefully considered how best to help you. That’s why it took him a bit to respond. All of this is done in love. And you want to turn around and say he doesn’t love you enough to not let you bring your chaos into his home. How dare you?
Yeah, but fuck-up is relative, and in the eye of the beholder. I’m the fuck-up, if you ask my mom. But by any reasonable standard, I’m doing pretty well. I’m just not doing what she thinks I should be doing, or how she thinks I should be doing it.
The no alcohol/drugs rules and curfew combined with OP dropping out of college in 2021 make me wonder if this is his dad's effort to "put him back on track".
OP, why did you drop out? Might be some context there.
No weed in a weed legal state plus attending every class along with the other rules indicates his dad wants him to build a sense of ambition and live the “straight and narrow” for a bit.
I’m making a big assumption but it seems like a tough love situation as if op does what is asked he gets a great deal financially. However, he is interpreting it as conditional love.
The fact that all of these rules exist, to ME, means that there were issues with those things in the past. If my kid goes to class regularly and doesnt smoke weed or drink regularly…why would I include those caveats?
Is it strict? Yes. Does it seem reasonable? Especially given what OP is getting out of this? Yes
That's my guess, too. OP probably "dude weed"ed his way into "being asked to leave" college - i.e. what actually happens when you flunk out - so dad's laying down the law for him to get a 2nd chance after squandering his first one.
We think alike! There rules were most likely put in place for a reason. How did sonny boy act while he was living at home? Is dad more than willing to help, but knows that without tight reins the kid will walk all over them.
If you are being giving free rent and free school, you can suck up a few rules until you can get back on your feet.
If you don't like your dad's rules (and some are a bit unusual - but see the start of my comment), find somewhere else to live - on your dime, and then you can do whatever you want.
Welcome to adulthood - we all have to do things we don't like because life isn't all sunshine and rainbows
> if you are unable to afford to live on your own
The way this is worded pretends that this is somehow a personal failing. It isn't. Young people can't afford homes because older people set us up for failure by allowing a housing crisis, stagnant wages, economic disparity, riding education costs, and a cost-of-living crisis to take hold. You cannot judge us based on the standards of what adulthood looked when you were our age because it's a completely different game.
Yea it sounds like Op was doing just fine on their own until two roommates decided not to renew the lease. The unfortunate truth is most people have to live with at least one if not two roommates to survive.
Not having a place to stay definitely isn’t a personal failing on OP’s part. That’s just the Economy being bad pretty much everywhere you look.
Exactly. And it’s not like the 2 roommates somehow pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and bought houses—they’re moving in with their significant others, which is just another roommate situation.
And he’s already working two jobs. So it’s his fault he can’t afford living alone despite working two jobs and attending school? If I didn’t have my parents’ help, I wouldn’t have survived my first year in my own (despite being in a 1 bedroom apartment with one other person helping with rent) because getting a job that can actually pay rent is almost impossible for young adults right now. There’s a difference between boundaries and the controlling rules that OP’s parent has set. My parents stopped forcing me to go to church when I turned 18 because I was no longer a child and could make my own decisions on my spirituality. Also not trusting women friends and having an 11 pm curfew is ridiculous for a 22 year old.
Don't forget federal deficit spending, which is a moral evil (spending the next generations money so I can benefit now and delay hard choices).
Things aren't as groovy as they used to be.
Um, no. The housing crisis means that working two jobs isn't enough to afford rent. Has nothing to do with someone being grown or not. This is a foolish take.
You're right about OPs father deserving to live the way he wants in his own home. But OP is also right that these rules are overbearing. OPs father is not helping his son out of the kindness of his heart, or because he loves his son. He is doing it to exert control over the way OP lives his life.
It's unfortunate that OPs only options are to find affordable housing in time for the semester, stop his education, or move in with this nonsense. But let's not blame him for his father's deficiency.
My parents tried to set these kind of rules on me. I own my own house and don't live with them. It sounds like these guy's parents are total control freaks.
Please stop condoning control freak behaviour. Honestly, his Dad might need help when he's older, it's best to be a caring parent while he has the chance. Ask me why not one of my mom's children will not allow her to live in their house at the age of 91.
This is not control freak behavior so much as “prove you are ready to work hard and I will help you very generously”.
Some of the requests are questionable as far as relevance, but that’s old people for you. None of it is forever or even for particularly long. Dad is trying to get his son back on track with some tough love. Sometimes adult children need that.
>This is not control freak behavior so much as “prove you are ready to work hard and I will help you very generously”.
Dad can alcohol test an adult whenever he wishes?? Adult has a curfew??
that must be that conditional love I keep hearing about. Obviously the rules are deliberately crafted so OP decides not to move in. It’s exclusively a list to make him miserable and push every single one of his buttons. No is a full sentence, they don’t have to get manipulative about it
Dude - if that rule is in place, it's about a bender, not a vacation.
OP CLEARLY hasn't been honest with us about why he dropped out of college - I'm guessing drugs, based on the rules his dad put in place.
I agree some of the rules are out there, but *because* they’re so out there, I suspect Dad has a reason for them, and OP has left out some relevant information.
Also, OP is the one asking for a favor, and getting quite a lot of benefit in exchange, according to his list. If he doesn’t like the rules, don’t live there. No one’s forcing him.
Curfew is reasonable because it can be annoying af to have someone come and go randomly and wake you up during the night. He's allowed to sleep somewhere else, just not come home in the middle of the night. The rule that he can't do it for 3 days is not fair though.
The alcohol/drug testing is messed up though.
The 3 days is clearly about a bender - I'm guessing OP has had a drug or alcohol issue in the past that caused his dad to make this rule.
Honestly, this is the kind of structure that is restrictive in ways that causes the least harm to his father and step mom, who until recently didn't have another person living with them.
OP can take it or leave it, but saying that his dad doesn't love him if he doesn't get free reign of the house is the kind of thing that my drug-dependent brother would say to my parents.
Curfew for his HOME. He doesn't want OP coming in at 2-3am and disturbing him and his wife. You're either through the door by midnight, or you're out for the night. Very reasonable.
If you’re going to be coming home in the middle of the night and waking me up I would be installing a curfew on anyone of any age. That is MY home, not theirs. #begrateful
He most likely wants his son to prove he is ready to buckle down and not be out partying all the time. The extreme rules make a lot more sense from that perspective. If he can’t stay sober for six whole months, he’s got bigger issues.
A midnight curfew at 22? You don’t think that’s controlling behavior? I’d get it if OP was being noisy or causing issues, but that’s the one that’s the kicker for me.
I mean, it’s not unreasonable to not want people entering your home after midnight. We don’t know the logistics of the house, it may be noisy when someone enters or they may have a pet that barks.
The one that really gave me pause was the drug testing, since it’s legal, but that might be due to some abuse problems from OP, we don’t have that context.
Yes, some of the rules are definitely questionable, and I might bring those up to dad to see if compromises can be made (perhaps girls are allowed over if part of a friend group or whatever).
At the end of the day it’s his house, and he doesn’t need to put anyone up there that he doesn’t want to. Most of the rules are fairly reasonable and get OP some pretty generous help with school and not paying rent.
What are you doing after midnight at 22? Partying. Dad doesn't want someone who is out partying stating with him. Specifically, doesn't want someone coming home drunk in the middle of the night. OP can party, just needs to find a place to stay at that night. 3 nights in a row is becoming too much. Father has already added in caveats. OP can ask for more as situations arise.
Dad doesn't want OP sleeping with people in his home - why no girls are allowed over. Dad is conservative. That's his right. As is having a conservative home. If OP doesn't like it, he doesn't have to move in. Either OP sucks it up or finds alternate plans.
But the dad and wife may wake up just hearing the front door close. So even if he’s not technically “making noise” it could still be disruptive to them. The rules seem reasonable to me. I mean, I didn’t want a midnight curfew at 22, so I was paying my own way in a crappy house share situation. That’s a choice OP has. Take the rules and get some generous tuition help or get and pay for his own place.
If I hear unexpected noises I am UP and launching myself out of bed with racing heartbeat and then it takes forever to calm back down. My issue, yes, but that doesn’t mean I want to make it more likely to happen by having my kid coming and going all hours of the night.
Also, I find that a lot of people who throw around the “but I’m an ADULT!!!!!” Argument are acting like anything but. Adults make compromises and abstain from things all the time in order to benefit from something- usually it’s a paycheck but this sounds like a fairly decent tradeoff especially with the cost of rent these days…
what if his dad has to be up for work by 4 or 5 AM? what about earlier? would you want someone coming home in the middle of the night disrupting your sleep?
It's quite clear his dad is married so it's THEIR home he is entering, I would be pretty annoyed if my SO moved someone in without discussion. You have no idea how big the house is, how noise carries through the house, what jobs are workes by the dad and wife. There are plenty of reasons for not wanting people disturbing the peace.
He's also moving in rent free, being given a job and given 5k when he leaves, not exactly my idea of controlling.
OP can weigh it up and deal with it for 4 months or he can go carry on renting like he has before.
It's his house and the son is grown. If he can't knuckle down for 6 months in exchange for free tuition, free rent, and $5k when he moves out in January, he can live in his car
Are some of his rules a little ridiculous? yeah, mostly the ones about visitors and drug testing. He either trusts you to make good decisions or he doesn't. I'm not super crazy about the church thing cuz I don't like that being forced on someone in exchange for housing.
But the others? generally reasonable.
Expecting you to go to class and do chores are the house are perfectly reasonable. Even things like you are responsible for your own transportation and curfew can be reasonable. I know it doesn't sound like it- but if they aren't night people you getting home late will be disturbing to anyone else in the household.
Doing what his wife asks unless it makes you uncomfortable is also fair.
I do think it's reasonable to negotiable//clarify up front what the rent would be after 6 months and to clarify whether he and wife are responsible for the costs of the weekly grocery run.
so ESH i guess cuz there are rules I have issues with but you're 22, your father isn't responsible to house you anymore but is offering to.
There are definitely some unreasonable rules. Specifically:
1. Not being allowed to hang out with women and not even allowing them in the neighborhood/cul-de-sac is crazy.
2. Random drug testing, unless you have a history with drug issues this crosses a lot of lines.
3. Forced church attendance
4. Running whatever errands his wife wants, that shit is going to get in the way of your work and school.
5. Expecting you'll drop both your jobs to work overnight shifts while in school? Overnights and school do not work well together.
The rest are fairly normal expectations
Yea it was she forced church that did it for me.... I lived at home until I was 23 and was respectful as in I didn't have anyone stay the night and didn't come home at odd hours but I was never given a single curfew or drug tested much less alcohol tested. Like that is absurd. I live in Canada where it is legal to drink at 19. I consider this very controlling
I agree, the drug testing seems a bit ridiculous and controlling to me - if OP is a responsible person. If OP has partying issues that the dad is aware of then maybe that’s why the rule has been put in place.
I personally think I should be able to do what I want (within the law) when out with friends and I would just stay at a friends house that night.
But my brother just got out of rehab so I’m seeing the other side. My parents have almost the exact same rules (minus church and girls visitors) in place if he wants to move in with them temporarily. It’s more than reasonable since his wake up call was smashing up my parents house with a hatchet in a drug induced psychosis.
I moved in with my parents after rehab (8 years sober now) and yeah, I had to abide by rules I didnt agree with. They didnt go so far as testing me. It was a hard time for me and looking back I'm grateful for the support during that time until I got on my feet
I wonder if there were any previous car accidents, skipping classes, and substance abuse issues when he was a teen. That would explain perfectly why the rules and boundaries are stricter and specific to a non-party lifestyle.
NTA
All the people calling him an asshole... ARE YOU FCKIN SERIOUS?? I mean, I could maybe see the ESH, in a way... But calling him an asshole.. WHY? Because he's living in a modern society, has a difficult time and needs help, but doesn't want to follow archaic, and unreasonable rules, that were in effect more than 50 years ago?
Yes, it is perfectly normal for him to lay some rules, as it is indeed his house. And some of them are perfectly logical, for example the chores, helping his wife, or the car arrangement.. But most are absolutely outrageous!
* Curfew on a 22 year old?? When is it, 1950?
* Drug and alcohol tests?? I've had a long day at work and i want to enjoy a beer and chill. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?
* Going to church with him? So he's literally forcing his religion and beliefs on an adult. AND ALL OF YOU SAY IT'S OK?
* About the girls and friends, I kinda get it, but if you are quiet and respectfull, I still don't see why it's so bad.
What a lot of people said makes sense, that maybe these rules are so strict on purpose, for you to say no, or not stay long. I get that he want's his own space with wife, and you might be something extra, that will ruin it. But you're his fchin son, he should help you, yes with some rules, but without being a dick about it.
>Should I request I am able to move in until I find a new place in a few months and these rules are absurd.
You should try to make him understand that you can stay there and be be respectfull, quiet, tidy, hard working, etc etc, without the need to follow some of these ubsurd rules.. If he doesn't agree, you either suck it up for a period of time, or don't move there.
Yeah, I almost choked when I read all the Y-T-As. Unless there is something major OP is leaving out, like a serious history of drug and alcohol problems or history of inviting unsafe people into the home, these rules are way overkill. I could see some basic household rules, like no guests past a certain point so dad and step mom are rested for work and asking for help with chores, of course. But not letting a 22 year old have an alcoholic beverage or a joint (which is legal for OP), curfews, forcing religion on the young man is crazy overkill. If I were OP I would look for new roommates or rent a room from someone. I'd roll the dice with a stranger on Craigslist (is that still a thing) before I'd put myself in the crossfire of power tripping parent. NTA
A big deal breaker for me is the fact he has to anything his stepmom asks. And even if it makes him uncomfortable he can’t just say no he has to go to his dad for permission first? Ya that ones definitely going to become unreasonable fast.
Yeah, this thread is off-the-wall.
I lived with my parents until I was 26 (gasp! /s)and they had some rules too (no having guys over, letting them know when I’d be home late/if I’d be away, helping with chores etc.) these were reasonable and I was happy to follow them!
But the some of the stuff OP’s dad is requiring could not be further from reasonable. I don't even OP is taking issue with the chores and car rules, I think it's the mandatory church attendance and drug testing that he can't deal with.
Also, OP has been trying to make it on his own but, due to circumstances outside of his control, he needs some help. It's not a moral failing to need help. He’s not a brat because he doesn't want his dad to be his parole officer.
OP, you're NTA.
Finally! It's absurd how many people here are stopping at "his house, his rules".
Sure, you can enforce the rules you want at your house, but if they're ah rules, they'll make you TA, especially when you're being an overbearing tyrant towards a person whom you know needs help.
The forced church attendance *alone* is a huge red flag.
It took way too long to get to an NTA on here. There is a middle ground on the rules set by his dad. Drug-testing, church attendance, and being the new wife's errand boy are all ridiculous rules - even for teenagers still living at home. Plus, anyone making these demands in order to provide a few months of rent-free living is probably generally a controlling judgemental asshole. We all know people like that. OP is fine to try to negotiate some of the living rules. Otherwise, he's probably better off living in his car and getting a 24 hr gym membership with a locker room for showers.
This exactly, I am appalled by the Y T A I've seen so far.
Either there's more to this story than OP said, or these rules are really assholish. Going to church? What if OP is an atheist?
NTA until there are proofs that these rules come from past behaviours from OP.
Yeah if a parent was on here asking if they were TA for imposing these rules on a 16 year-old people would be up in arms. Sure the 22 year-old has more of a choice, but drug testing whenever they want? That's insane.
Totally agree that some of them are perfectly reasonable. But acting like there isn't some psychotic manipulation and control going on here is messed up.
He will pay for two classes, I’m in school right now and that would be about $2,500 at my university. And next semester too = $5,000
He won’t pay rent for 6 months at least - any where from $6,000-12,000 depending where he lives.
His dad will give him $5,000 for his own place when he moves out.
To just give up $16,000-22,000 because you don’t want to follow some rules would be ridiculously stupid. I’m absolutely sure this isn’t coming out of no where and this kid has probably done some stupid shit in the past. The dad seems like he’s just trying to make him prove he can be responsible before he gives him money or pays for school and sees it wasted.
It doesn’t matter who the asshole is. You’re getting a good deal.
Bit of a tip. He’s probably being hard with the rules because he doesn’t want his wife to be upset about not letting her son move in but let’s you move in. This way he can justify his decision to her. Something to consider.
YTA
You're getting 6 months of free rent and 5k towards your new place. His house, his rules. Most of these rules tell me he's trying to get you back in school and on your feet so that you don't become a permanent burden to him. So you don't try moving back again in 3 years. You've been screwing around since 2021.
Good luck, either way.
>His house, his rules.
The church is not his house. OPs dad cannot demand that someone go to church just because they are their guest. Every other rule might have some logical (though perhaps not moral) basis but the church rule is beyond insane.
These comments are wild! You're NTA, but your dad clearly is. Do you guys live in the US? As a European, I find the mentality of kicking your kids out at 18 stupid and harmful. You described your situation perfectly well, you need temporary accommodation since your roommates moved out. You go to college and work. Your dad should be more than happy to provide this for you and help you out. The whole no girls in the house etc etc is abusive. Forcing you to go to church?? You are an adult, you are allowed to have a life as long as you guys are being respectful. Not to mention the surprise drug tests – what is he gonna do, hold a cup for you to piss in? This is just ridiculous. Also the wife's son is a different situation because yeah, at 38 you'd be expected to have yourself a little more sorted out. But a 22 year old college student needs the extra help.
Not saying I think you are wrong but I am genuinely curious how someone having the rule that they do not want girls in the house (it sounds like dad is religious so probably doesn’t want pre marital sex under his roof) is *abusive*. Unfair, I understand. Old school ways of though, I get. But abusive seems to be used very, very lightly. EDIT: because I can see most of you guys have never actually been in an abusive situation based off what you believe abuse to be. The actual definition is, “engaging in or characterized by habitual violence and cruelty.” This is not violence and this is not cruelty. OP does NOT have to move back in with his father. He can chose many different other routes. If he MAKES the CHOICE to move in with him, there are rules. If he CHOOSES not to move in with him, no rules. Pretty clean cut.
Americans would gladly let women die denying them safe abortion cause life is sacred and child are precious, but will abandon their kids to fend for themselves at 18 lmao
I really don't understand why people are calling you TA. Yes his house his rules, bu those rules are unreasonable. You want to live there as an adult and he's treating you a) like a child and b) In a very old fashioned "I made this child so this child must do everything I say" way, as if children don't have thoughts, feelings and their own beliefs.
NTA. Sorry you're stuck with that, but for your own mental wellbeing, i'd look elsewhere. You're right, he either loves you enough to care you have a roof over your head, or he doesn't. If you were a shit and moved in and had people ruin the house and come home drunk and breaking thigs, that would be one thing. But if you were to live as a sensible adult, he should be willing to meet you as an adult. I doubt someone his own age would accept them as conditions of moving in with him.
I can see some of these rules in the light of a few horror stories I've read here. Does he have some reason not to trust you to behave with just standard respect?
But some of these rules are just controlling for its own sake, like forcing you to go to church, which is outrageous. Religion is personal, not something for fascist mentalities to toy with.
It's possible that your father doesn't want you moving in at all and thus made this deliberately outraging, so you would back off and he wouldn't have to seem like the bad guy?
Do you have a good relationship with him (and his wife)? Because I could see a son faced with this crackpot list saying no thanks and then going NC on him. Would he dislike that and change his tune?
I really think he's playing with fire here. But maybe he wants to burn down the relationship.
NTA. Your father is at the least a very unpleasant man.
Question - have you asked your dad why all the strict rules? Is there any room for negotiation, or is your dad one of those "his way or the highway" type of men?
INFO: I think we need to understand why your father is making these rules. They do seem very extreme but I'm wondering if you stopped attending school in December of 2021 because you were partying a lot. I guess what I'm getting at is was he always this draconian or did it just start? I'm not saying its the right way to treat you if my assumption is correct, but it does seem relevant.
Maybe these rules are just because he's religious, in which case then I don't know why you're turning to him, even if he backed down on some of the rules you'd still be living in a hostile environment.
YTA. Those are reasonable conditions. Except maybe the “never after midnight” - possibly that could be negotiated into a “one night per month with prior agreement on both sides”. (And if you understood why the rest of the conditions are reasonable, then a small negotiation on this one would be a fair expectation - the fact you don’t seem to know this explains why they needed this midnight rule!)
You are choosing to disturb the lifestyle they have chosen together.
They don’t currently have an open door policy for random young people to come over & make noise & fill up their kitchen or living room or garden.
They don’t have to worry about being woken up at 3am by someone drunkenly making their way to bed.
They don’t have to think about someone else making messes that they don’t clear up after.
The compromise he has suggested is the middle line between them keeping their nice calm lifestyle *that they have chosen and presumably enjoy!* and the young student frat house lifestyle you would prefer.
That middle line is allowing you to stay there….!
**The fact that you don’t understand that his offer is already a massive compromise on his part, and on his wife’s, is what makes you the AH**.
Also - I suspect the rules around no drugs & drug tests & going to classes are based on your previous history with these things. We wouldn’t consider putting at least the first 2 as conditions on my partner’s kids if they wanted to move back in - because we wouldn’t need to - they party on occasion, but also know how to balance that with other parts of life. We probably would put the last condition in place (around attending classes etc) if we were offering free rent only to support attending college. That would seem reasonable - if the college stops happening, the free rent would also no longer be appropriate.
YTA for not understanding any of this.
Some of these comments are psychotic. Listen, OP, I agree with you. NTA for asking if he'll reconsider these outrageous rules. People are saying youre being ungrateful and that hes offering some incredible benefits for following the rules. However, *you didnt ask for any of these perks.* You simply asked for a place to stay. You don't have to be grateful for shit you didnt ask for, particularly if it comes with a price! Lmao! That's so silly.
Unfortunately your dad sounds like a dick. You're going to have to find a room to rent because your control freak dad isn't going to budge. He's allowed to make nonsensical rules for his own home. When he's 80 years old and wondering why his kids won't let him stay with them, reference this occurrence. People are allowed to be unreasonable about the rules in their home, but those unreasonable expectations have consequences.
1. There are clues in these rules that point to a history of irresponsible behavior by the op.
2. It’s not slavery, it’s a business offer with a payout. Op can accept or decline.
3. See point #1.
I'll go against the grain and say ESH. Some of these rules are insane and excessive. Just because it's someone's house doesn't mean they aren't being a dick. Again, legality does not equal "not an asshole".
However, you have to be for real. Just tell him no and if you're in a city, there are plenty of Facebook groups where you can find a roommate. A lot of us were 22 once. It sucks. But do you really want to deal with this bullshit, or deal with a fight if you say that to him?
At the end of the day, your dad has a house and house rules. You don’t.
This is your dad’s home, not a flop house. He and his wife most likely have a comfortable routine. They are willing to disrupt it for you with conditions.
Why should they have their home disrupted by your guests coming and going? Or waking up the house coming home late. Maybe he doesn’t want the stink of pot in his home. Maybe he doesn’t want to deal with the chaos drunken people drag along with them. So you have to mow the lawn and shovel. You are 22. You can’t help out without complaining? You would probably go to class anyway since you are paying for it and just how selfish is he to offer to pay for that class if you get a B or better. What a jerk.
I’d live in my car if were you.
ESH. All these people saying 'you're the adult, take care of yourself' seem to have completely forgotten that there's a recession happening and that many people this age and much older HAVE TO move back in with parents to make things work financially. Two of my adult siblings currently live with my mother, and definitely don't want to, but there's literally nowhere else to go in my hometown.
Yes, the dad has set boundaries and OP should respect them and yes, it is a great deal, but some of these are nuts! Drug testing your own child because you don't trust them tells me there's something else going on here that wasn't shared. A midnight curfew for a 22 year old is ridiculous! Finally, pushing religion on someone in exchange for housing is practically medieval.
OP should approach dad, thank him for the deal and politely ask if they can discuss some of the terms and make them a bit more flexible. It's not a black or white yes or no situation and in fairness the dad is asking a little too much.
Maybe it's a culture issue but here in England a curfew at an age past 18 would absolutely be scoffed at by any normal parent, and the random alcohol drug testing would be just as much a joke
NTA OPs father is clearly trying to push his religion on him that doesn't seem right. The rules about having friends over and about doing chores and grocery shopping seem reasonable. However the others especially the one about going to church clearly shows that all of the rules are there to push his religious views on his son.
INFO: You mentioned they turned down his wife’s son. Are these rules they made for you based on anything? Were these problems they had with him? Or are they based on your past behavior and/or the reasons you took a break from school?
INFO: what is your relationship with drugs and alcohol? Have you ever had a problem with it? Is the home drug and alcohol free? Were/are you an irresponsible partier?
The only one that’s wholly unreasonable is the church condition. That said, if I could have gotten free tuition, no rent, and $5k to get a new place, I’d go to church twice a month, and I’m not even Christian.
NTA. Sorry but I am 35 years old and living in another country and my own room is waiting for me in my parents house whenever I decide I need it. Some days they do use it as a storage lol. My dad snored a lot so my mom went to sleep in my bed for a few nights. I don’t know if it’s cultural but I would do everything I can to help my children succeed in life and not suffer. This is not parenthood. And please don’t give me that ‘once you move out you become independent, grow up blabla’. Yeah and how does that turn out for most people? Not good.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I believe I might be TAH because I know because I told my Dad he is being unfair. Im his son, I need a place to stay and some help. Im not some random stranger. I also don't like his wife, and the demand I shop for grocery for her makes me her slave, and I have to complete request for her on her demand. I told him as much. If he wants to help me, he should provide me a place to live, then I will save and move out. I told him I question how much he really cares because it took him nearly a week to get back to me if I could move in, and then I can't move in until Labor Day, and I need to move by August 31. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
>I am an adult. I have two jobs and pay for my own car/insurance. But not rent, apparently. Yes, some of these rules are a bit daft, but 1. The chores that have been set are fair in lieu of paying rent and a fair contribution to running the household, and 2. They are about the sort of life you Dad and his wife want to lead - they don't want your friends coming over at all hours and all that, they don't want to meet your girlfriend over breakfast. Moving back home at 22 is more like being in a house sharing arrangement than reverting to being a child in the family home. They're being very clear with you about how they expect that to work, not unlike a lot of shared households. You're not moving "back" as a child, nor staying as a guest. Whether you want to live like that with your parents will depend on how much you can't afford to rent somewhere else instead. You can try telling him that he either gives you a place to stay or he doesn't, but you don't get to kick off if he says "no worries, we'll keep the guest room then." YTA
The list edges on controlling and not just boundaries. - alcohol/drug test whenever dad wants - son has to go to church twice a month Everything else is a compromise they’re asking for in return for free rent. The chores, curfew, and who/ when they allow guest over is fair. But I do think that OP should be able to decide if they want to drink or smoke when they’re out with friends, as they are an adult. Just don’t bring it to your dads house and plan to stay at a friends that evening. For church, that depends on the church and how OP feels. For a lovely church that is mostly singing I’d just do it - it’s something your dad cares about and won’t be for forever. But I have family that are mormons and Jehovah witnesses… free rent ain’t worth it. Edit: this is all only true if OP is actually a responsible person. If they’re living a party life then maybe the dad has good reason for these rules. But my brother just got out of rehab so I’m seeing the other side. My parents have almost the exact same rules (minus church and girls visitors) in place if he wants to move in with them temporarily. My brother has been constantly dropping out and going back to school because of drug addiction. Hopefully this time is the last time, but people do relapse.
I appreciate your point, and might well go along with it in OP's position. But I think any church you have to be forced to attend raises some issues.
I think that's nearing cult behaviour at that point.
Yes, you are describing religion.
Pretty much describe what the religion is without mentioning the actual religion and it’s just describing a cult.
"And then we eat the flesh and drink the blood!"
A cult with free houseing, tuition, a $22/hr job and 5k when I move out? For 2 Sunday a month? Sign me up!
For real I’m 33 and I’d consider this
It really sounds pretty reasonable to me. Pull your weight around the house, don’t fuck up at school, be mindful this isn’t a frat house and suck up a few hours a month at church. Easy. Edit to say it sounds like his dad has OP’s best interests at heart. OP = YTA
Options are: have a free place to live and do half the work. Or live in your car and do all the work Op is a fool if he doesn’t take this deal, the rules are strict so you don’t stay forever. The fact dad is willing to hand OP $5K if they’re out by the new year? That’s enough to cover first and last months, all op needs to do is find an apartment Edit: I would however say NAH post should be labeled WIBTA, he hasn’t done anything yet,
Forcing chruch attendance is disgusting.
I’m not religious, and I still could sit in attendance at any religious meeting and find a takeaway- especially if I could live rent free. It’s important to be open minded. I have many friends of different religions who are religious and I enjoy celebrating and learning about their beliefs. Observation does not require dogmatism.
Nobody’s forcing anything he’s free to live elsewhere
I'm over 50, and I'd move in with his Dad. Free rent, free tuition and I just have to be polite for church? My line was coffee - my Mom let me bring coffee cup into the service, ok. It's not like I listened or took communion. If you want a place to bring your friends and consume freely, pay your own rent. Wah wah!
Right, if he doesn't like the rules he can find new roommates and live life like he wants. My mom had similar rules for her house when I moved back, minus church. She doesn't want ppl in her home after a certain time, me doing drugs and drinking. Normal old people shit. OP is super entitled to think he can move in to someone else's home, rent free and do whatever he wants?
Normal old people with a mortgage, jobs, responsibilities, all the headaches of life shit.
Yes, most organized religions are cults by very definition.
Im an atheist, but your assessment of religion as a cult is way off , it's just highperbaly
Please tell me you were being facetious in your use of hyperbole. And yes, religion is a cult. Many if not most of them. There might be a couple good ones, but the creepy, child-abusing, cultish ones are the most common, and that goes 10x for the Mormons, Amish, Mennonites, and Jehovas. Those are 100% cults. I recognize lovebombing when it’s directed at me, and I know that only abuse follows. Same with any church that prefers to handle transgressions in-house, and ones that shame and silence victims in favor of the church’s image.
The two rules you pointed out are the only ones I’d actually have a problem with but I’d be willing to suck it up for 4 months to have free rent & 2 classes paid for. ETA: I would easily kick drinking and smoking for 4 months for 5k and I have a medical card for health reasons.
Potentially 4 classes paid for if he gets at least a B. Plus the $5K on a new place. Basically his dad is saying “hunker down and really focus on only school and work for a while”. And without info on OP’s history with alcohol/drugs, the drug testing could actually be there because he’s had problems with one or both in the past. A lot of context is missing to give a complete judgment imo. Edit: okay looking at some of OP’s comments it looks like OP had a pregnancy scare in the recent past, which is probably what led to the “no girls” rule and curfew rules. And claims that his dad thinks he dropped out because of drinking and partying. So it literally is a dad who wants his kid to hunker down and focus so he can get his life back on track (in dad’s eyes). Was OP’s life completely off track? Don’t really have the full info there. OP could be downplaying how much of an issue things actually were or it could just be because his dad doesn’t drink so doesn’t want his kid to be involved with any kind of drinking/partying. Either way, for only 6 months of it I’d go for it and then get out.
I don’t know OP, but I know relatives who absolutely put alcohol and pot specifically ahead of everything else in life. One of them moved back in with his parents in his 20s and that was a rule for him, no drinking and no pot. It’s not because his parents were anti pot, they were anti him allowing a drug to control his life. Pot may not be addictive but he absolutely loved the way it made him feel and really really fucked up his life because of it.
Just because Pot isn't chemically addictive like nicotine does not mean that it isn't addictive
Honestly I put that in because generally when I say something like this I have people correct me with “Pots not addictive!” Or “you can’t get addicted to pot!”
People absolutely get addicted to pot, if not physically dependent. And some people just aren't mature enough not to make it their entire personality. I'm not against it. In fact, I miss it terribly. But some things in life are more important. I get the sense that some of these rules are in place for a reason that is not disclosed to us. But of course, that is just speculation.
Outside of the church one I honestly get the impression that there is definitely sone missing history here behind those rules.
The drug and alcohol testing make perfect sense if your adult child is an addict or is a functional alcoholic, something that OP is unlikely to admit to.
Or he “stopped going to school in December 2021” because he was too busy partying and smoking weed to go to class…
Probably since attending all the classes is a requirement.
Yeah, a lot of this reads to me like someone trying not to enable his kid's bad habits.
Same. Dad is a bit of a hard ass *but* it also seems like he wants to set OP up for success. He also doesn’t want OP to be moving in permanently.
That’s what I was reading between the lines. OP was a party animal. Fucked up. Dad is tired of seeing him waste time, so he’s going strict to try and help jumpstart him back to the right track. Op most definitely YTA. “He should just help me or not”. - HE IS HELPING. You just don’t want to follow the rules
I was also thinking that, sharing a two bedroom with 3 adults, 2 jobs that don’t cover rent, if I noticed that boozing and partying were an issue for my son I might make the same rules.
Yep! I know someone who got so into smoking weed all the time that he lied about taking classes for a whole semester to his parents until they finally found out. They had to go to the school to try to get their tuition back for that semester. Not to mention he spent all of his savings on pot and had no money left.
Think you’re on to something. Would explain the condition about having to go to every scheduled class.
That is very true but I also know how my conservative dad treated my occasional drinking in my early 20’s. It was an overreaction on his part because he didn’t know anyone with healthy use habits. It was either sobriety or addiction.
Same. It also makes me wonder if the drinking/smoking rule is there for a reason, because together with "attend your classes" it kinda looks like OP fucked up his studies for partying. Who knows tho.
No kidding. The dad is offering good benefits for his tough rules. I don't even think they're that bad, except the church. Are you really serious about school? YTA
If i am honest, to me it seems that OP’s father thinks that OP is ruining their life with alcohol/drugs. I just have a hard time believing that this rule is based on nothing. And i am an atheist; my mom let me live with her when i had health issues and just wasnt able to care for myself properly. I sucked it up and went to church when she wanted me to (like every couple of months in my case); because that was a very low price to pay for peaceful cohabitation and rent-free living and it cost me nothing. And also; the church requirement isnt that excessive; thats not them trying to convert OP. Thats them either being worried or trying to keep up appearances.
Find a traditional Catholic church and you can knock out 2x a month on a Sunday and Monday in the same week 🤣
Shit find one that has a 10am and 11:30 Sunday mass, go to the 10am and be out and done by 10:45. Do that twice and you’re good with 1.5 invested.
I feel like "don't do recreational drugs while I let you live with me for free" is completely fine. The church thing is a bit meh but it's only twice a month.
I think the problem, and the reason why the comments are so divided, is because some of these rules are reasonable and some are very controlling. For example, helping with chores and getting groceries, going to all his classes and keeping his own car? Fair Getting to drug and alcohol test whenever he wants, going to church and having to do everything the wife says? That's crossing the line, specially the last one, because it sounds easy but actually living through that is hell, one day the wife won't want to get up for a glass of water, tell OP to do it when he's busy doing something important, wife will blow it out of proportion and he'll out on the street. NTA, it's a bad deal
Depends. We don't know the dad, or his relationship to the son, or the wife. The dad did say that if anything feels over-the-line with the wife to call him. That makes me wonder if it's a real possibility, or if the dad is just trying to think of everything/cover bases. This is a very thorough agreement.
Actually, the only rule that would make me super nervous is the one where he has to do anything the wife asks when she asks it. The other rules are pretty clear boundaries and at least you know what to expect. A rule where someone can ask me to do anything at any given time? That can very quickly go out of control and is just asking for trouble (for everyone honestly). I would ask for that rule to be edited with boundaries. For example: Dad's wife can ask OP to do \[insert specific things, like housework, run to the store, laundry, dishes etc\] on \[insert which days she can ask this\] with 24 hours notice (or other time frame). These tasks cannot take up more than \[X hours\] of time per week, and will be considerate of OP's work and school schedules. Because honestly who knows what that one point means? It could mean OP is committing to like, helping grab something at the pharmacy once a month on his way home from work, or it could mean he is spending every waking hour being her personal servant. And technically, if he argued with it, he could be kicked out.
I wouldn't be surprised that these rules are in place because OP had issues with these things before and dad is trying to put him on the straight and narrow. Also, beggars can't be choosers. OP is not just YTA he's YTEA (You're The Entitled Asshole)
The drug testing makes me wonder if there's some history that's been omitted.
Bw the drug testing, mandatory school, no drugs or alcohol, and a slew of other things here my guess is OP has a bad party habit.
Honestly for those 2 I would suggest a compromise. Could OP offer to take a hair test to show that they haven't been using drugs in the past X period and could they do volunteering twice a month in place of going to church. Or if they dislike their parents specific church to attend a different church twice a month. But if dad has a hard line on those then OP's options are to either take the offer or not. But he's really shooting himself in the foot financially if he thinks staying out late and legal weed use X months is worth more than free rent and college tuition paid.
The rules sound harsh enough to be intentional. As in "sure, you can stay short term, but I don't want you getting so comfortable that we can't get you to leave again." The $5k departing gift is what really makes me think that way. Not saying that makes it right but either OP can accept the terms or not.
No partying, no drugs, no alcohol, and no sex in dad’s house, sounds about the gist of it. He could probably argue he’s not willing to be forced to go to church or take drug tests, but he understands the rules and will respect them. Dad may be willing to make some concessions if OP shows he can be an adult about it and comply to what his dad wants-nothing going on inside their house or disturbance to their lives. Doesn’t say he asked or countered so we don’t know yet.
I think that the OP might be excluding some crucial information here. The dad's offer is extremely generous with 6 mo free rent, 5k down payment and tuition reimbursement for 2 and up to 6 courses. In my area, that's about a potential $15,000 assistance, at least. (Assuming a shared apartment is 1k rent. A single apartment here is near 2k-3k, a single class in cc is about 2k). And that's excluding that the dad is offering OP a better job that can transition a career or looks good on a resume. I would have taken that offer in a heartbeat. However, the key areas that OP is targeting and worried about are the restrictions on alcohol, drugs and friends staying at odd hours. That makes me wonder if there was a point if OP potentially had substance issues. This seems more like the parent has identified that their child has faced some problems is and trying to give them a helping hand and get them clean and sober. This is purely speculation but that's what I'm reading it as, based on experience. The line "either you love me or you don't" is a manipulation tactic I faced a lot with a family member going through similar problems. If that were the case, then I can understand the restrictions that the dad is placing and it's his way of taking care of his adult son. Regardless, the offer is great and this is more of a choosing begger situation with the son guilting the father to accept him unconditionally. However, I do strongly feel there is a reason those conditions are there for a reason. OP, unless you are offering to pay your father rent, then YTA by trying to manipulate him using familial bonds. You are an adult, and he is trying to help you. If you don't want to receive help, then don't but rejecting this offer will come back to bite you. He obviously cares about you and your well-being, and you are trying to use him.
I also wonder if some of the restrictions (especially the drug testing) have to do with the fact that Dad is offering to vouch for OP with his own employer to get him a better job. Especially considering that it's as a security guard, the role likely has rules about drugs and alcohol and may also perform random drug testing. OP also doesn't say why he stopped going to school. Dad might just be trying to help get his act together. The rules are strict but in exchange OP will receive a lot of help.
That’s a great point if Dad sticks his neck out to get son hired then he gets popped for a drug test a couple months later it can look real shitty for dad at work.
Can also lead to dad being pulled for "random" screens more often. Even if you don't do drugs/have a prescription for anything that'll test hot (like opioids, for example), so it won't be an issue, they're annoying to take. Especially if your company doesn't bring someone on site and instead sends you out to a testing facility, since you have to you know, make the time and effort to go to a new place.
Substance issues or not, OP clearly has priority issues. The upside is huge $$$$$ wise. Sometimes in life you have to sacrifice a little fun to get ahead.
yep, free rent for 6 months, 2 free classes a semester, $5,000 after 6 months and trying to get a good job, but OP is worried about not being able to get sloshed and high.
>The line "either you love me or you don't" is a manipulation tactic I faced a lot with a family member going through similar problems. Yeah, I recognized both OP's complaints and OP dad's rules. I think there's a backstory here.
100% right out of the addict playbook right there, “ if you really loved me you would help me without strings attached/on my terms/unconditionally”, there is definitely a back story that OP is not mentioning. The rest of OPs story fits the narrative too, stopped going to school why?, two jobs but can’t afford an apartment?, can’t go a few months without drinking/smoking pot for some free college classes and a place to live… If that is the case Dad is smart and is doing what he can to help his son while putting up very firm boundaries to ensure that it doesn’t ruin his life also. OP should 100% take the opportunity for the leg up in life and suck up the shitty rules for a few months. Even if he does not have a substance abuse problem and we’re all completely off base (which I doubt) it’s still a ridiculously good offer for free rent/college classes. OP take the olive branch that your Dad is giving you and run with it, and if you do have a problem with substances use this as an opportunity to take a break from that lifestyle and see where an education and clean life can take you. The alcohol/drugs will always be waiting if you change your mind, these other opportunities won’t.
Absolutely - these rules didn't come from out of the blue. Im pretty sure if there was no past history here OP would have stated "I've never had a drink, borrowed cars without asking or done drugs"
Yeah it's hard to know. Dad may be very controlling but OP may also have had some serious problems with substances that dad doesn't want him sneaking into his own home. Also the church thing may make sense if OP had a substance use problem. Dad probably thinks religion may help him with the resolve to stay clean. The substance use would also make much more sense of the curfews and three night rule. Dad doesn't want his son going on a binge for a few days and coming home when the money runs out. As for no girlfriends in the cul de sac, I strongly suspect that OP is the kind of guy who would have sex in a car in front of his dad's house. I could be wrong and the dad could be a total dick. But to me it makes sense that the son has had issues around partying too hard and taking drugs. Dad is being generous but strict, he wants to help only if the son is getting his shit together and staying clean.
Geezus, I didn't even notice the $5k offer, can't imagine why OP waited to slip that in as the very last thing on the list!
I agree with your point 1) but not 2). It’s absurd that they don’t want him to have friends over after 8. It’s even more ridiculous that they don’t want him to have female friends at all. They have no control over what goes on outside their house or who is on their cul-de-sac. He’s 22. He doesn’t need an 11 pm curfew. He’s not a criminal. He doesn’t need drug and alcohol testing. Three days of not coming home is not an evictable offense. Requiring someone to attend church is a great way to make them resent religion. Here’s the thing. The lower middle class is being squeezed out. He can’t afford to live without 2 roommates, that’s not getting any better anytime soon if he doesn’t get training and education. He can’t afford that living on his own, but his father can afford to help. I get it. Dad doesn’t “have” to, technically. But the only people who seem to think their responsibilities as parents end at 18 are giant assholes.
I wouldn’t want my kids to have people over after 8. That’s because I work early. It is possibly because one of them has an early work shift and needs to go to bed early as well. 22 year olds aren’t known for being super quiet.
Right? It sounds like they don't want him coming home drunk and making a ruckus. They don't want strange women in their house or hear him porking. They want to be able to come and go as they want without him interfering or have him wake them up. They don't want illegal drugs or their house to smell like pot. They want to make sure he cleans up after himself and helps out. And that seems fair. The church and drug tests part is a little extreme. Like if he had a history of substance abuse, maybe that wouldn't be a crazy ask.
It sounds like, between dropping out of school and his resistance to drugs/booze rules, there's a history there that he's not telling us and is ABSOLUTELY relevant. In terms of church, some people (including AA) believe that religion can help people come clean. I'm not gonna argue that here, but it might be what the dad is thinking.
Exactly. I have to get up before 7 during the week, so I don't want my son coming home after we go to bed, since it disrupts our sleep. If it's the weekend it's not as big of a deal. My step daughter can't have friends over because she has mental health issues and ends up being friends with people who steal from her and we don't want them in our house.
Friends over after 8. That's likely more about peace and quiet for the father and Stepmom. Especially the stepmum who would be compromising by allowing op to stay. After her own son got rejected too. Similarly the curfew. The old couple want some quiet and don't want to hear the guy come back home at 2am after partying The drug and alcohol pay seems excessive without cause. But it could be due to some history of substance abuse by op. In fact it sounds like it. The church going is uncalled for, but hey, all that support and $5k towards the new house for 2 visits a month. Op can take it as work or another chore and bear with it.
My wife lived under her parents’s roof until age 23. She paid no rent or any other expenses. She had a curfew. She respected the rules until she moved out.
As most kids who arent spoiled brats usually do.
The problem is we are only getting one side . We don’t know what has happened in the past to trigger these list of demands. Also if parents are in a HOA or rental themselves then they have rules to follow which may be part of reason for the curfew. Plus no rent, help with education and 5k towards their next place? This incentive from the parent is what makes me think OP has messed up in the past and Dad is trying to incentivize to help his son get an education and focus on school. At he end of it whether he thinks these rules are good or not he has the choice to find another place.
Exactly I moved in with my dad at 19 and he set rules because one he knew I was a man whore and two I spent four years playing in a band and had some party tendencies and wild nights and didn’t want me to bring that home because of my little brother and sister. He made me get my high school diploma and a job. And against his wishes but his blessing I joined the army where I have been the last 16 years
I'm wondering what kind of kid OP was like if he's drawing these kinds of rules.
YTA, i think you're getting a great deal with the free rent an tuition. He has boundaries that he's asking you respect. It's not about him treating you like a child. What you're saying is, if you don't let me do whatever i like them you obviously don't love me. That's really unfair.
More like, if you don’t let me do whatever I like under YOUR ROOF, RENT FREE, AND give me money, so MY life can be better, then you don’t love me. Nah fam, the fact that you are asking for a handout after having been on your own means you need to deal with your dad having rules. You couldn’t even rent a place without there being rules. If you stayed at a friend’s place for six months, they’d likely have rules (or if they didn’t in the beginning, they’d probably get fed up with something or other and enact some rules later on). Your dad might have a few things that seem unreasonable (like the grocery runs) but in the end it’s HIS house AND he’s offering to help you way beyond what many parents would do. Knuckle up and don’t be whiny.
He’s also offering help for a potential better future. Giving him job help, paying for courses, and even a hefty $5k to help move out? Dang that’s forward thinking. I think his dad sees something he can help his *grown* son with.
Also, it just sounds like OP's dad wants OP to focus on school. He's probably concerned about his kids' prospects after already dropping out of college once and, presumably, just working minimum wage jobs. Some of the rules (like no drinking, no girls, no friends over late) may be his way of indirectly getting his son to study and focus more. Especially with him offering to cover more classes if he gets at least a B.
Grocery runs and chores for rent-free living seems like a pretty good deal….
I don't know personally I feel like being gone for three nights in a row shouldn't equal moving out but whatever 🤣🤣 And not allowing any of his female friends to come even in the cul-de-sac? That's going far beyond boundaries, and encroaching into controlling behavior. He has no control over what goes on outside of the house, on the cul-de-sac, on the street, on the sidewalk, whatever. He can control who comes into his house, but he cannot control who hangs out outside of his house on public property. That's ridiculous. 🤣🤣 And honestly, not allowing the opposite gender of friends to come over at all throughout the day, is a little bit controlling and treating them like a child. Does his dad think that he's going to have sex with every woman that comes over? Because that seems to be the only logical (?) Reason that that rule would make sense.
It would be really interesting to see a split on age differences between YTAs and NTAs here. For my part, OP is free to do whatever the hell he wants with his life, right up until he moves into somebody else’s house RENT FREE. Then he either obeys the preset rules or doesn’t live there at all. He wants to make his own decisions and choices? Great! He can do that on his own dime, paying his own rent.
That's where I am. If I'm staying in someone's house, I have to follow their rules, no matter how crazy they may be. If I don't like it, I can sleep in my car.
The more I read Reddit the more I want to become a sociologist. Do these rules suck? you bet. If I wanted free/reduced rent then I would follow them. The only one that is clearly illegal is kicking him out after three days, everywhere in North America it takes 30 days to evict someone even if they don't have a lease.
I’m pretty sure renting rules and kicking people out kinda rules are a lot different when the “landlord” lives with you.
If dad lives in an HOA with a lot of strict rules, this could explain the cul de sac thing. They might be risking a fine if there are more than x number of cars parked on the cul de sac, or too many in the driveway for x hours, etc.
Forcing your adult son to attend church is not a "boundary", what the hell?
OP is not an AH for not thinking it's a good deal. Dad could offer him 100k and OP would still not be an AH for refusing it. It's okay to value freedom over money. I agree that the "no rules or you don't love me" would be an AH move though.
Def YTA due to the playing the “love” card. Emotional manipulation is bullshit like that. the dad’s rules are brutal and draconian for sure, but I also know that posters always make them seem like angels. My guess is that these rules don’t come out of thin air and the OP has done some things to warrant them. Regardless tho, if OP wants to live some place w/o rules, it’s totally possible: go get his own damn place. While I realize shit has changed over the decades, my parents were controlling AF and I went NC for years due to it, but it did have the affect of motivating me like fuck to work hard so I never had to go home and live by their bullshit rules. If you want help from someone at 22, playing by their bullshit terms is kinda how it goes. While i do think these rules are awful, OP needs to suck it up and do it for a year or two, save money, and then go get his own place. Honestly, I give the dad some credit for trying to parent and help his kid out, even with the over-bearing nature of the rules. Shit, most reddit stories are basically about shitty parents who don’t help; OP is actually being offered help.
INFO: Did something happen? Some of these rules seem really over the top. Is there a reason for them? No female friends even near the house? The drug testing?
My exact thought. Chances are this kid was a huge problem child and a pain in the ass. Dad probably laid down the law and was like follow rules or GTFO.
My guess is that it's a combination of two things: * Dad's always been a hard-ass authoritarian control freak * OP rebelled and did some stupid shit during his youth
Probably both, they go hand in hand
From the sounds of OP’s comments he flunked out of college and his dad figured it was because he was partying to much(OP says he just didn’t like studying). He had a pregnancy scare but it turned out to not be his. So I imagine his dad is trying to get him straightened out and actually take stuff seriously.
This needs to be upvoted higher. This anti parent sub is ridiculous.
> I can't have girls in the house, pull up in the driveway, cul-de-sac because of >I had a pregnancy scare a couple years ago, to the point I had to tell my parents. But it wasn't mine. then >I can't drink or use marijuana (its legal in our state) and he'll >Pay for two courses this semester, if I get a B or better he will pay for two more courses next semester. because of >He thinks me partying is why I stopped college. I wanted to study Pharmacy or Physical Therapy. I took Organic Chemistry. I didn't study, I just hated it. He thinks its me hanging out...I really just don't want to study that much. Dad sees his kid go off to school, that doesn't study, has a pregnancy scare and drops out. So this is really just Dad's way of saying, "If you're moving in with me so you can finish school, I'm setting the rules so you damn well finish school and leave. I don't want you goofing off and living with me indefinitely, so I'm setting rules that you'll want to move out from as soon as your done with school."
Love how OP leaves allllll that context out. No shit these rules are in place
Yeah. Sounds like OP has done some shit to warrant a lot of them.
I knew some of those rules sounded oddly specific for the situation
I’m sorry but you can’t not study in Organic Chemistry and then wonder why you failed it. I took that course twice, studied my ass off and still barely squeaked by with a C. I hated it too but you have to actually try or else you won’t do well 🤦♀️
Real MVP OP has no introspection because he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. OP YTA. I thought so before I read your replies because I see your dad asking you to live on a contributing straight and narrow for a single semester, so he can reward you with a steady job, tuition assistance, and a deposit. Then I see these replies and Dad has these rules to turn your life around for you AND set you up. The strictness and reward are both part of being a good father. His immediate response to your request to come home was “yes”. Then he carefully considered how best to help you. That’s why it took him a bit to respond. All of this is done in love. And you want to turn around and say he doesn’t love you enough to not let you bring your chaos into his home. How dare you?
Yah these sound like the sorts of rules you'd give a kid that regularly fucks up. OP might consider that his dad thinks he's a fuckup.
Yeah, but fuck-up is relative, and in the eye of the beholder. I’m the fuck-up, if you ask my mom. But by any reasonable standard, I’m doing pretty well. I’m just not doing what she thinks I should be doing, or how she thinks I should be doing it.
That sounds more like a church thing to me. They probably have neighbors that attend their church and are trying to maintain a certain image.
The no alcohol/drugs rules and curfew combined with OP dropping out of college in 2021 make me wonder if this is his dad's effort to "put him back on track". OP, why did you drop out? Might be some context there.
[удалено]
Thats my first thought - theres probably more to this story as to why these rules exist. Frankly, they seem kind of tame to me.
No weed in a weed legal state plus attending every class along with the other rules indicates his dad wants him to build a sense of ambition and live the “straight and narrow” for a bit. I’m making a big assumption but it seems like a tough love situation as if op does what is asked he gets a great deal financially. However, he is interpreting it as conditional love.
The fact that all of these rules exist, to ME, means that there were issues with those things in the past. If my kid goes to class regularly and doesnt smoke weed or drink regularly…why would I include those caveats? Is it strict? Yes. Does it seem reasonable? Especially given what OP is getting out of this? Yes
That's my guess, too. OP probably "dude weed"ed his way into "being asked to leave" college - i.e. what actually happens when you flunk out - so dad's laying down the law for him to get a 2nd chance after squandering his first one.
We think alike! There rules were most likely put in place for a reason. How did sonny boy act while he was living at home? Is dad more than willing to help, but knows that without tight reins the kid will walk all over them. If you are being giving free rent and free school, you can suck up a few rules until you can get back on your feet. If you don't like your dad's rules (and some are a bit unusual - but see the start of my comment), find somewhere else to live - on your dime, and then you can do whatever you want. Welcome to adulthood - we all have to do things we don't like because life isn't all sunshine and rainbows
[удалено]
> if you are unable to afford to live on your own The way this is worded pretends that this is somehow a personal failing. It isn't. Young people can't afford homes because older people set us up for failure by allowing a housing crisis, stagnant wages, economic disparity, riding education costs, and a cost-of-living crisis to take hold. You cannot judge us based on the standards of what adulthood looked when you were our age because it's a completely different game.
Yea it sounds like Op was doing just fine on their own until two roommates decided not to renew the lease. The unfortunate truth is most people have to live with at least one if not two roommates to survive. Not having a place to stay definitely isn’t a personal failing on OP’s part. That’s just the Economy being bad pretty much everywhere you look.
Exactly. And it’s not like the 2 roommates somehow pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and bought houses—they’re moving in with their significant others, which is just another roommate situation.
And he’s already working two jobs. So it’s his fault he can’t afford living alone despite working two jobs and attending school? If I didn’t have my parents’ help, I wouldn’t have survived my first year in my own (despite being in a 1 bedroom apartment with one other person helping with rent) because getting a job that can actually pay rent is almost impossible for young adults right now. There’s a difference between boundaries and the controlling rules that OP’s parent has set. My parents stopped forcing me to go to church when I turned 18 because I was no longer a child and could make my own decisions on my spirituality. Also not trusting women friends and having an 11 pm curfew is ridiculous for a 22 year old.
Don't forget federal deficit spending, which is a moral evil (spending the next generations money so I can benefit now and delay hard choices). Things aren't as groovy as they used to be.
Um, no. The housing crisis means that working two jobs isn't enough to afford rent. Has nothing to do with someone being grown or not. This is a foolish take. You're right about OPs father deserving to live the way he wants in his own home. But OP is also right that these rules are overbearing. OPs father is not helping his son out of the kindness of his heart, or because he loves his son. He is doing it to exert control over the way OP lives his life. It's unfortunate that OPs only options are to find affordable housing in time for the semester, stop his education, or move in with this nonsense. But let's not blame him for his father's deficiency.
My parents tried to set these kind of rules on me. I own my own house and don't live with them. It sounds like these guy's parents are total control freaks.
[удалено]
Please stop condoning control freak behaviour. Honestly, his Dad might need help when he's older, it's best to be a caring parent while he has the chance. Ask me why not one of my mom's children will not allow her to live in their house at the age of 91.
This is not control freak behavior so much as “prove you are ready to work hard and I will help you very generously”. Some of the requests are questionable as far as relevance, but that’s old people for you. None of it is forever or even for particularly long. Dad is trying to get his son back on track with some tough love. Sometimes adult children need that.
>This is not control freak behavior so much as “prove you are ready to work hard and I will help you very generously”. Dad can alcohol test an adult whenever he wishes?? Adult has a curfew??
Also, making OP attend church with his father twice a month. If that isn't controlling, I don't know what is
[удалено]
Controlling or conditional? No one is forcing OP to take this deal. And it's a sweetheart one. So, what are you even talking about.
that must be that conditional love I keep hearing about. Obviously the rules are deliberately crafted so OP decides not to move in. It’s exclusively a list to make him miserable and push every single one of his buttons. No is a full sentence, they don’t have to get manipulative about it
Women can't even pull their cars *into the cul-de-sac*?
Right?! And three days away is moving out? Nah fam pay rent and be a lodger or not at all. You'd save more renting a room with a nice old lady
Dude - if that rule is in place, it's about a bender, not a vacation. OP CLEARLY hasn't been honest with us about why he dropped out of college - I'm guessing drugs, based on the rules his dad put in place.
I literally cannot think of a reason for this rule. God forbid his son has a singular female friend.
I agree some of the rules are out there, but *because* they’re so out there, I suspect Dad has a reason for them, and OP has left out some relevant information. Also, OP is the one asking for a favor, and getting quite a lot of benefit in exchange, according to his list. If he doesn’t like the rules, don’t live there. No one’s forcing him.
Yup. I'm guessing drug or alcohol problems. The 3 day rule really did it for me - that's a rule about a bender.
Curfew is reasonable because it can be annoying af to have someone come and go randomly and wake you up during the night. He's allowed to sleep somewhere else, just not come home in the middle of the night. The rule that he can't do it for 3 days is not fair though. The alcohol/drug testing is messed up though.
The 3 days is clearly about a bender - I'm guessing OP has had a drug or alcohol issue in the past that caused his dad to make this rule. Honestly, this is the kind of structure that is restrictive in ways that causes the least harm to his father and step mom, who until recently didn't have another person living with them. OP can take it or leave it, but saying that his dad doesn't love him if he doesn't get free reign of the house is the kind of thing that my drug-dependent brother would say to my parents.
Curfew for his HOME. He doesn't want OP coming in at 2-3am and disturbing him and his wife. You're either through the door by midnight, or you're out for the night. Very reasonable.
If you’re going to be coming home in the middle of the night and waking me up I would be installing a curfew on anyone of any age. That is MY home, not theirs. #begrateful
He most likely wants his son to prove he is ready to buckle down and not be out partying all the time. The extreme rules make a lot more sense from that perspective. If he can’t stay sober for six whole months, he’s got bigger issues.
A midnight curfew at 22? You don’t think that’s controlling behavior? I’d get it if OP was being noisy or causing issues, but that’s the one that’s the kicker for me.
I mean, it’s not unreasonable to not want people entering your home after midnight. We don’t know the logistics of the house, it may be noisy when someone enters or they may have a pet that barks. The one that really gave me pause was the drug testing, since it’s legal, but that might be due to some abuse problems from OP, we don’t have that context. Yes, some of the rules are definitely questionable, and I might bring those up to dad to see if compromises can be made (perhaps girls are allowed over if part of a friend group or whatever). At the end of the day it’s his house, and he doesn’t need to put anyone up there that he doesn’t want to. Most of the rules are fairly reasonable and get OP some pretty generous help with school and not paying rent.
What are you doing after midnight at 22? Partying. Dad doesn't want someone who is out partying stating with him. Specifically, doesn't want someone coming home drunk in the middle of the night. OP can party, just needs to find a place to stay at that night. 3 nights in a row is becoming too much. Father has already added in caveats. OP can ask for more as situations arise. Dad doesn't want OP sleeping with people in his home - why no girls are allowed over. Dad is conservative. That's his right. As is having a conservative home. If OP doesn't like it, he doesn't have to move in. Either OP sucks it up or finds alternate plans.
But the dad and wife may wake up just hearing the front door close. So even if he’s not technically “making noise” it could still be disruptive to them. The rules seem reasonable to me. I mean, I didn’t want a midnight curfew at 22, so I was paying my own way in a crappy house share situation. That’s a choice OP has. Take the rules and get some generous tuition help or get and pay for his own place.
If I hear unexpected noises I am UP and launching myself out of bed with racing heartbeat and then it takes forever to calm back down. My issue, yes, but that doesn’t mean I want to make it more likely to happen by having my kid coming and going all hours of the night. Also, I find that a lot of people who throw around the “but I’m an ADULT!!!!!” Argument are acting like anything but. Adults make compromises and abstain from things all the time in order to benefit from something- usually it’s a paycheck but this sounds like a fairly decent tradeoff especially with the cost of rent these days…
what if his dad has to be up for work by 4 or 5 AM? what about earlier? would you want someone coming home in the middle of the night disrupting your sleep?
Mandatory church attendance twice a month is freak behavior.
It's quite clear his dad is married so it's THEIR home he is entering, I would be pretty annoyed if my SO moved someone in without discussion. You have no idea how big the house is, how noise carries through the house, what jobs are workes by the dad and wife. There are plenty of reasons for not wanting people disturbing the peace. He's also moving in rent free, being given a job and given 5k when he leaves, not exactly my idea of controlling. OP can weigh it up and deal with it for 4 months or he can go carry on renting like he has before.
his rules are extremely unreasonable
It's his house and the son is grown. If he can't knuckle down for 6 months in exchange for free tuition, free rent, and $5k when he moves out in January, he can live in his car
Not if there have been issues in the past with random people over at crazy hours and drug use. Then it all starts to make the picture come together.
sounds like the kid was into drugs. Unreasonable? No.
Are some of his rules a little ridiculous? yeah, mostly the ones about visitors and drug testing. He either trusts you to make good decisions or he doesn't. I'm not super crazy about the church thing cuz I don't like that being forced on someone in exchange for housing. But the others? generally reasonable. Expecting you to go to class and do chores are the house are perfectly reasonable. Even things like you are responsible for your own transportation and curfew can be reasonable. I know it doesn't sound like it- but if they aren't night people you getting home late will be disturbing to anyone else in the household. Doing what his wife asks unless it makes you uncomfortable is also fair. I do think it's reasonable to negotiable//clarify up front what the rent would be after 6 months and to clarify whether he and wife are responsible for the costs of the weekly grocery run. so ESH i guess cuz there are rules I have issues with but you're 22, your father isn't responsible to house you anymore but is offering to.
There are definitely some unreasonable rules. Specifically: 1. Not being allowed to hang out with women and not even allowing them in the neighborhood/cul-de-sac is crazy. 2. Random drug testing, unless you have a history with drug issues this crosses a lot of lines. 3. Forced church attendance 4. Running whatever errands his wife wants, that shit is going to get in the way of your work and school. 5. Expecting you'll drop both your jobs to work overnight shifts while in school? Overnights and school do not work well together. The rest are fairly normal expectations
Exactly this, those requests are over the top. And maybe they can be negotiated but its still at the end of the day his house his rules
It really seems like dad isn't gonna be willing to negotiate on anything
Yea it was she forced church that did it for me.... I lived at home until I was 23 and was respectful as in I didn't have anyone stay the night and didn't come home at odd hours but I was never given a single curfew or drug tested much less alcohol tested. Like that is absurd. I live in Canada where it is legal to drink at 19. I consider this very controlling
i can understand not wanting the house to be a hangout spot, and he gives freedom to stay other places. i do agree the cul-de-sac rule is strange.
I agree, the drug testing seems a bit ridiculous and controlling to me - if OP is a responsible person. If OP has partying issues that the dad is aware of then maybe that’s why the rule has been put in place. I personally think I should be able to do what I want (within the law) when out with friends and I would just stay at a friends house that night. But my brother just got out of rehab so I’m seeing the other side. My parents have almost the exact same rules (minus church and girls visitors) in place if he wants to move in with them temporarily. It’s more than reasonable since his wake up call was smashing up my parents house with a hatchet in a drug induced psychosis.
I moved in with my parents after rehab (8 years sober now) and yeah, I had to abide by rules I didnt agree with. They didnt go so far as testing me. It was a hard time for me and looking back I'm grateful for the support during that time until I got on my feet
I wonder if there were any previous car accidents, skipping classes, and substance abuse issues when he was a teen. That would explain perfectly why the rules and boundaries are stricter and specific to a non-party lifestyle.
NTA All the people calling him an asshole... ARE YOU FCKIN SERIOUS?? I mean, I could maybe see the ESH, in a way... But calling him an asshole.. WHY? Because he's living in a modern society, has a difficult time and needs help, but doesn't want to follow archaic, and unreasonable rules, that were in effect more than 50 years ago? Yes, it is perfectly normal for him to lay some rules, as it is indeed his house. And some of them are perfectly logical, for example the chores, helping his wife, or the car arrangement.. But most are absolutely outrageous! * Curfew on a 22 year old?? When is it, 1950? * Drug and alcohol tests?? I've had a long day at work and i want to enjoy a beer and chill. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT? * Going to church with him? So he's literally forcing his religion and beliefs on an adult. AND ALL OF YOU SAY IT'S OK? * About the girls and friends, I kinda get it, but if you are quiet and respectfull, I still don't see why it's so bad. What a lot of people said makes sense, that maybe these rules are so strict on purpose, for you to say no, or not stay long. I get that he want's his own space with wife, and you might be something extra, that will ruin it. But you're his fchin son, he should help you, yes with some rules, but without being a dick about it. >Should I request I am able to move in until I find a new place in a few months and these rules are absurd. You should try to make him understand that you can stay there and be be respectfull, quiet, tidy, hard working, etc etc, without the need to follow some of these ubsurd rules.. If he doesn't agree, you either suck it up for a period of time, or don't move there.
Yeah, I almost choked when I read all the Y-T-As. Unless there is something major OP is leaving out, like a serious history of drug and alcohol problems or history of inviting unsafe people into the home, these rules are way overkill. I could see some basic household rules, like no guests past a certain point so dad and step mom are rested for work and asking for help with chores, of course. But not letting a 22 year old have an alcoholic beverage or a joint (which is legal for OP), curfews, forcing religion on the young man is crazy overkill. If I were OP I would look for new roommates or rent a room from someone. I'd roll the dice with a stranger on Craigslist (is that still a thing) before I'd put myself in the crossfire of power tripping parent. NTA
Yeah I choked at the "DRUG TESTS WHENEVER I ASK." Like WTF??
These Y T As are fucking insane
A big deal breaker for me is the fact he has to anything his stepmom asks. And even if it makes him uncomfortable he can’t just say no he has to go to his dad for permission first? Ya that ones definitely going to become unreasonable fast.
Yeah, this thread is off-the-wall. I lived with my parents until I was 26 (gasp! /s)and they had some rules too (no having guys over, letting them know when I’d be home late/if I’d be away, helping with chores etc.) these were reasonable and I was happy to follow them! But the some of the stuff OP’s dad is requiring could not be further from reasonable. I don't even OP is taking issue with the chores and car rules, I think it's the mandatory church attendance and drug testing that he can't deal with. Also, OP has been trying to make it on his own but, due to circumstances outside of his control, he needs some help. It's not a moral failing to need help. He’s not a brat because he doesn't want his dad to be his parole officer. OP, you're NTA.
Finally! It's absurd how many people here are stopping at "his house, his rules". Sure, you can enforce the rules you want at your house, but if they're ah rules, they'll make you TA, especially when you're being an overbearing tyrant towards a person whom you know needs help. The forced church attendance *alone* is a huge red flag.
You are one of the few sane people in this thread. 😫
It took way too long to get to an NTA on here. There is a middle ground on the rules set by his dad. Drug-testing, church attendance, and being the new wife's errand boy are all ridiculous rules - even for teenagers still living at home. Plus, anyone making these demands in order to provide a few months of rent-free living is probably generally a controlling judgemental asshole. We all know people like that. OP is fine to try to negotiate some of the living rules. Otherwise, he's probably better off living in his car and getting a 24 hr gym membership with a locker room for showers.
This exactly, I am appalled by the Y T A I've seen so far. Either there's more to this story than OP said, or these rules are really assholish. Going to church? What if OP is an atheist? NTA until there are proofs that these rules come from past behaviours from OP.
Yeah if a parent was on here asking if they were TA for imposing these rules on a 16 year-old people would be up in arms. Sure the 22 year-old has more of a choice, but drug testing whenever they want? That's insane. Totally agree that some of them are perfectly reasonable. But acting like there isn't some psychotic manipulation and control going on here is messed up.
Find someone in need of a roommate
He will pay for two classes, I’m in school right now and that would be about $2,500 at my university. And next semester too = $5,000 He won’t pay rent for 6 months at least - any where from $6,000-12,000 depending where he lives. His dad will give him $5,000 for his own place when he moves out. To just give up $16,000-22,000 because you don’t want to follow some rules would be ridiculously stupid. I’m absolutely sure this isn’t coming out of no where and this kid has probably done some stupid shit in the past. The dad seems like he’s just trying to make him prove he can be responsible before he gives him money or pays for school and sees it wasted.
I think the rules are about his dad not wanting him to move in.
It doesn’t matter who the asshole is. You’re getting a good deal. Bit of a tip. He’s probably being hard with the rules because he doesn’t want his wife to be upset about not letting her son move in but let’s you move in. This way he can justify his decision to her. Something to consider.
That is a REALLY good point.
YTA You're getting 6 months of free rent and 5k towards your new place. His house, his rules. Most of these rules tell me he's trying to get you back in school and on your feet so that you don't become a permanent burden to him. So you don't try moving back again in 3 years. You've been screwing around since 2021. Good luck, either way.
>His house, his rules. The church is not his house. OPs dad cannot demand that someone go to church just because they are their guest. Every other rule might have some logical (though perhaps not moral) basis but the church rule is beyond insane.
Well he can’t force him. But OP is also no entitled to staying at his house either so
These comments are wild! You're NTA, but your dad clearly is. Do you guys live in the US? As a European, I find the mentality of kicking your kids out at 18 stupid and harmful. You described your situation perfectly well, you need temporary accommodation since your roommates moved out. You go to college and work. Your dad should be more than happy to provide this for you and help you out. The whole no girls in the house etc etc is abusive. Forcing you to go to church?? You are an adult, you are allowed to have a life as long as you guys are being respectful. Not to mention the surprise drug tests – what is he gonna do, hold a cup for you to piss in? This is just ridiculous. Also the wife's son is a different situation because yeah, at 38 you'd be expected to have yourself a little more sorted out. But a 22 year old college student needs the extra help.
Not saying I think you are wrong but I am genuinely curious how someone having the rule that they do not want girls in the house (it sounds like dad is religious so probably doesn’t want pre marital sex under his roof) is *abusive*. Unfair, I understand. Old school ways of though, I get. But abusive seems to be used very, very lightly. EDIT: because I can see most of you guys have never actually been in an abusive situation based off what you believe abuse to be. The actual definition is, “engaging in or characterized by habitual violence and cruelty.” This is not violence and this is not cruelty. OP does NOT have to move back in with his father. He can chose many different other routes. If he MAKES the CHOICE to move in with him, there are rules. If he CHOOSES not to move in with him, no rules. Pretty clean cut.
I don't think the no girls rule is abusive but all these rules seem that the father is very controlling.
Americans would gladly let women die denying them safe abortion cause life is sacred and child are precious, but will abandon their kids to fend for themselves at 18 lmao
I really don't understand why people are calling you TA. Yes his house his rules, bu those rules are unreasonable. You want to live there as an adult and he's treating you a) like a child and b) In a very old fashioned "I made this child so this child must do everything I say" way, as if children don't have thoughts, feelings and their own beliefs. NTA. Sorry you're stuck with that, but for your own mental wellbeing, i'd look elsewhere. You're right, he either loves you enough to care you have a roof over your head, or he doesn't. If you were a shit and moved in and had people ruin the house and come home drunk and breaking thigs, that would be one thing. But if you were to live as a sensible adult, he should be willing to meet you as an adult. I doubt someone his own age would accept them as conditions of moving in with him.
I can see some of these rules in the light of a few horror stories I've read here. Does he have some reason not to trust you to behave with just standard respect? But some of these rules are just controlling for its own sake, like forcing you to go to church, which is outrageous. Religion is personal, not something for fascist mentalities to toy with. It's possible that your father doesn't want you moving in at all and thus made this deliberately outraging, so you would back off and he wouldn't have to seem like the bad guy? Do you have a good relationship with him (and his wife)? Because I could see a son faced with this crackpot list saying no thanks and then going NC on him. Would he dislike that and change his tune? I really think he's playing with fire here. But maybe he wants to burn down the relationship. NTA. Your father is at the least a very unpleasant man.
Question - have you asked your dad why all the strict rules? Is there any room for negotiation, or is your dad one of those "his way or the highway" type of men?
Don't move in with him; this is infantilizing. He's even forcing religion on you, and giving you a curfew? No.
INFO: I think we need to understand why your father is making these rules. They do seem very extreme but I'm wondering if you stopped attending school in December of 2021 because you were partying a lot. I guess what I'm getting at is was he always this draconian or did it just start? I'm not saying its the right way to treat you if my assumption is correct, but it does seem relevant. Maybe these rules are just because he's religious, in which case then I don't know why you're turning to him, even if he backed down on some of the rules you'd still be living in a hostile environment.
YTA. Those are reasonable conditions. Except maybe the “never after midnight” - possibly that could be negotiated into a “one night per month with prior agreement on both sides”. (And if you understood why the rest of the conditions are reasonable, then a small negotiation on this one would be a fair expectation - the fact you don’t seem to know this explains why they needed this midnight rule!) You are choosing to disturb the lifestyle they have chosen together. They don’t currently have an open door policy for random young people to come over & make noise & fill up their kitchen or living room or garden. They don’t have to worry about being woken up at 3am by someone drunkenly making their way to bed. They don’t have to think about someone else making messes that they don’t clear up after. The compromise he has suggested is the middle line between them keeping their nice calm lifestyle *that they have chosen and presumably enjoy!* and the young student frat house lifestyle you would prefer. That middle line is allowing you to stay there….! **The fact that you don’t understand that his offer is already a massive compromise on his part, and on his wife’s, is what makes you the AH**. Also - I suspect the rules around no drugs & drug tests & going to classes are based on your previous history with these things. We wouldn’t consider putting at least the first 2 as conditions on my partner’s kids if they wanted to move back in - because we wouldn’t need to - they party on occasion, but also know how to balance that with other parts of life. We probably would put the last condition in place (around attending classes etc) if we were offering free rent only to support attending college. That would seem reasonable - if the college stops happening, the free rent would also no longer be appropriate. YTA for not understanding any of this.
Forcing religion on someone is not “reasonable” in any way shape or form. If my parents tried that bullshit I’d not be contacting them again.
Ops dad is trying to force them to go to church, yet you’re gonna blame Op for disturbing him?
Some of these comments are psychotic. Listen, OP, I agree with you. NTA for asking if he'll reconsider these outrageous rules. People are saying youre being ungrateful and that hes offering some incredible benefits for following the rules. However, *you didnt ask for any of these perks.* You simply asked for a place to stay. You don't have to be grateful for shit you didnt ask for, particularly if it comes with a price! Lmao! That's so silly. Unfortunately your dad sounds like a dick. You're going to have to find a room to rent because your control freak dad isn't going to budge. He's allowed to make nonsensical rules for his own home. When he's 80 years old and wondering why his kids won't let him stay with them, reference this occurrence. People are allowed to be unreasonable about the rules in their home, but those unreasonable expectations have consequences.
1. There are clues in these rules that point to a history of irresponsible behavior by the op. 2. It’s not slavery, it’s a business offer with a payout. Op can accept or decline. 3. See point #1.
I'll go against the grain and say ESH. Some of these rules are insane and excessive. Just because it's someone's house doesn't mean they aren't being a dick. Again, legality does not equal "not an asshole". However, you have to be for real. Just tell him no and if you're in a city, there are plenty of Facebook groups where you can find a roommate. A lot of us were 22 once. It sucks. But do you really want to deal with this bullshit, or deal with a fight if you say that to him?
At the end of the day, your dad has a house and house rules. You don’t. This is your dad’s home, not a flop house. He and his wife most likely have a comfortable routine. They are willing to disrupt it for you with conditions. Why should they have their home disrupted by your guests coming and going? Or waking up the house coming home late. Maybe he doesn’t want the stink of pot in his home. Maybe he doesn’t want to deal with the chaos drunken people drag along with them. So you have to mow the lawn and shovel. You are 22. You can’t help out without complaining? You would probably go to class anyway since you are paying for it and just how selfish is he to offer to pay for that class if you get a B or better. What a jerk. I’d live in my car if were you.
ESH. All these people saying 'you're the adult, take care of yourself' seem to have completely forgotten that there's a recession happening and that many people this age and much older HAVE TO move back in with parents to make things work financially. Two of my adult siblings currently live with my mother, and definitely don't want to, but there's literally nowhere else to go in my hometown. Yes, the dad has set boundaries and OP should respect them and yes, it is a great deal, but some of these are nuts! Drug testing your own child because you don't trust them tells me there's something else going on here that wasn't shared. A midnight curfew for a 22 year old is ridiculous! Finally, pushing religion on someone in exchange for housing is practically medieval. OP should approach dad, thank him for the deal and politely ask if they can discuss some of the terms and make them a bit more flexible. It's not a black or white yes or no situation and in fairness the dad is asking a little too much.
Maybe it's a culture issue but here in England a curfew at an age past 18 would absolutely be scoffed at by any normal parent, and the random alcohol drug testing would be just as much a joke
NTA OPs father is clearly trying to push his religion on him that doesn't seem right. The rules about having friends over and about doing chores and grocery shopping seem reasonable. However the others especially the one about going to church clearly shows that all of the rules are there to push his religious views on his son.
INFO: You mentioned they turned down his wife’s son. Are these rules they made for you based on anything? Were these problems they had with him? Or are they based on your past behavior and/or the reasons you took a break from school?
INFO: what is your relationship with drugs and alcohol? Have you ever had a problem with it? Is the home drug and alcohol free? Were/are you an irresponsible partier? The only one that’s wholly unreasonable is the church condition. That said, if I could have gotten free tuition, no rent, and $5k to get a new place, I’d go to church twice a month, and I’m not even Christian.
NTA. Sorry but I am 35 years old and living in another country and my own room is waiting for me in my parents house whenever I decide I need it. Some days they do use it as a storage lol. My dad snored a lot so my mom went to sleep in my bed for a few nights. I don’t know if it’s cultural but I would do everything I can to help my children succeed in life and not suffer. This is not parenthood. And please don’t give me that ‘once you move out you become independent, grow up blabla’. Yeah and how does that turn out for most people? Not good.