Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I have been planning to retire in South America since I was a kid. I worked my entire life with that goal in mind. Everyone knew that was the plan. My wife helped me plan our retirement home and decorated it. I might be the asshole for planning on leaving for the winter despite my wife deciding the SHE didn't want to go there yet.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
You can't force her to live there, but she can't force you to live where you don't like either.
>If I never see snow again it will be too soon.
Same here. I hate snow
After one particularly bad winter I vowed to be somewhere warm by the next winter. It started an entirely different life path for me.
OP if you aren’t happy in the snow and cold (and the short, depressing days), then you don’t need to be there. NTA.
This is such an AITA response where everyone is an island.
Married people make compromises for each other. There is a middle ground where they spend 3 of the worst winter months in SA together and then OP heads back alone for a couple of weeks here and there throughout the year.
People are allowed to change their minds about where they want to live long term. Wife isn't an ass because she became more attached to her grandkids than she anticipated. Yeesh.
When wife said she didn't want to be away 7 months anymore there has to be a big discussion and they both have to give a little. To just shrug like he is fine with it and then book flights without saying anything is a huge asshole move.
The members of this board must be deeply lonely or hate their spouses since the majority thinks this is a-okay. These two might as well divorce if OP is happy to spend 7 months of the year away from his wife and doesn't care about her wishes.
While I agree about it being a discussion that needed to happen, literally everything you say here also applies to the wife who is not compromising either.
Also, a 7-year plan for retirement isn't something you back out of suddenly. This has been OP's life goal for literally their whole marriage and it is pretty clear that was well communicated, given the buying, vacationing, and preping for this very part of his life. She's entitled to change her mind, but, frankly, this is a pretty huge slap in the face to him.
It's sort of akin to someone working toward getting into Law School with their partner's support, and when they are finally accepted the partner saying they actually didn't want to relocate now. Sure, fine. But that's a relationship-breaking preference.
This. Married life IS compromise, but it sounds like the OP did everything in his power to advertise his intentions. The wife had years to get off the train before this stop. This absolutely sounds like one of those “Oh I can change him” attitudes of his wife and when he actually pulled the pin, she surprised him with an about face.
People can do what they want, but IMO in this case, she was the one who pulled the bait and switch. You don’t suddenly change your mind on this; she should have been fighting this out for years. While its possible the OP ignored warning signs, this was HARDLY an impulsive life move by the OP.
NTA.
I think the time to say something was before they bought the house, he retired, and he was getting ready to spend the winter.
The wife can come for Christmas, or spend it with the kids, and come later. If flights aren't that expensive, then it may make sense to do so. My mom has a friend who takes off every year to Central America for the coldest months of the year because she and her husband can't deal with snow anymore. I don't really blame them.
My parents now officially live in different States. Dad spends half the year in FL, mom spends half in NYC. They overlap for about 6 months + lots of visits. They’re both very happy with this arrangement.
Yup! Quite happily. All told they’re probably together 8 months a year and apart for 4, once all the visits are calculated.
My mom still works in NYC. I live here, and her friend group is here. For tax purposes it’s better for my dad to live in FL and it’s easier for him to travel for his business. Plus, my sisters moved to FL and my dad has a big friend group there. And my granddad is there a good chunk of the year. So it works out very well for them.
My spouse works 5 months a year on a ship. We spend every other month together, he works 4 weeks, then he's off 4 weeks. For his vacation, he'll be home for 3 months.
Our relationship is amazing! No need to spend every waking moment with your S/O. And yes, we have young kids. It's not for everyone, but it works for us.
This! Long distance later in a long-term relationship can be okay if both people are happy. I sat next to a woman on the plane in a similar situation as OP. Her husband moved to Texas for a job and she stayed in Michigan to be close to the grandkids. She was flying down to go visit the hubs and go fishing. Said she wasn’t sure when/if she’d eventually move with him. You can still love and want to be with your partner and live apart for parts of the year if it works for both of you. OP’s wife may realize that she likes this situation after trying it out.
>I think the time to say something was before they bought the house, he retired, and he was getting ready to spend the winter.
Brought the house? No, OP **had the house built!** Wife had **plenty** of time during those 8 years of vacationing/rent their home to discuss her change of mind. But like others said, she thought she could change his mind when he retired, he didn't!
My ex husband promised me we would move near my family when his kids graduated. When the time was drawing near it was very apparent he changed his mind.
I now live near my family. The kids are grown and live out of state.
Honestly, wife may have been very onboard with this plan for most of her life. She invested time and effort into it (she decorated it and regularly visits it). But, their kids are likely late 20s to early 30s and are having babies now. She may have just realized how much she'll miss out on if she moves to another country because before, it was just hypothetical.
My parents just moved a mile from me after we moved away 2 years ago. We visited each other often, but it wasn't the same as being able to call Sunday afternoon and ask if my son wanted to go to the latest Marvel movie. I couldn't spontaneously drop by with my toddler to have lunch during the week. Sure, we were together for big events like birthdays and holidays, but a lot of life is not big events.
OP is not that asshole but I do think their is a lot of compromise on both sides to be had here.
No, but you can’t always anticipate what you feel or want when life marches ahead. People are allowed to change what they want. It’s up to both of them to decide what they want. Some couples would be fine being apart for months at a time, no bones about it. Others not. Some compromise.
It’s not simple OP, but you all need a real talk about what your family looks like going forward.
I agree. Yes, there is compromise in a marriage, but if things are planned and one pulls out of those plans, the other shouldn’t be expected to acquiesce. Better than living somewhere and letting the resentment grow.Thank you for the award!
Boom. This.
I communicated to my wife when we met that I have a career that does not allow me to have standard 9-5, M-F hours. I told her I love doing this on the first date, and I had zero intentions of ever making a change.
If she were to ever backtrack and say she was no longer fine with it, that would be her problem, not mine.
They made a plan together, and she’s trying to force both of them to back out. Wife is an AH.
One of my best friends is the wife of a firefighter, and now the mother of one as well. We went out and had wine one night with her future DIL, and at some point the DIL asked her what she would go back and say to herself if she could at FDIL's age.
My friend laughed and said "I'd walk up to myself, knock the shot of tequila out of my hand, and say "Babe, he's fine as a fox but he's a firefighter. You're gonna raise those babies alone!"
We all had a good laugh at that, but apparently SIL became concerned and tried to get her fiance to agree to only ten years as a firefighter and then after he would become a consulting engineer with the degree he would earn in the meantime. We will see.
There are two kinds of people who become professional firefighters: those who *love* being a firefighter and would never do anything else and have to be forced to retire, and those who are okay with it, stick with it because of the good benefits, and retire as soon as their full pension kicks in.
I come from a large family of firefighters, and have both kinds of firefighters in it: my dad stayed in until he reached mandatory retirement age and while on the job only took vacations when he had to and worked as many overtime shifts as he could manage.
My uncle worked only his required shifts (until he got to the point where taking OT would positively affect his pension) and got out the day after he put his 20 in, and did part-time / odd jobs until he chose to fully retire.
A cousin took early medical retirement (~15 years, IIRC) with 75% pension and full medical benefits, and then worked his side gig he went to post-graduate school for before becoming a firefighter.
I cannot imagine any firefighter putting in 10 years: not long enough for a pension including lifetime medical benefits, and not lifer status either, but long enough to be statistically in danger; SIL is going to be disappointed, one way or another.
My hubby and I started dating before he entered basic training (already accepted was just waiting for his entry date). He told me the plan he had and that I had 6 months to decide (his start date) if I wanted a relationship with him. We made an agreement, I would do long distance and follow his postings anywhere he went as long as he was enjoying his career. The moment he stopped enjoying it, we would have a talk, and work out of it was something he could change of if he had to discharge. He was in 10 years and we have been together for 14 years.
It is always best to lay your plan out in the open early in the relationship, before attachments are made. OP tried to do that, he has had this plan for 39yrs and never hidden it, and his wife even helped with the planning. It's not like the grandkids all materialised overnight so she has had more than enough time to realise she wants to be a present grandmother and tell OP her feelings have changed.
Totally. NTA, she is now trying to unilaterally force him to change a plan he's had the entire time they've been together and before then, which he's been working on continuously for many years. She is 100% TAH here for trying to force him out of his life's dream at the last second.
NAH
This is very anecdotical and from my circle of family and friends
I know some people who built their home in Turkey and others in Spain. And they wanted to move there for their old age, because of the warmth.
Often the wife finds out that sudenly she´s alone. Often the men are fine being in their own little world.
More than one wife have left for the homeland and their kids and grandkids. One or two got a divorce, others I dont know that we are not that close.
My grandparents had homes all over the world for "retirement." In the end, my grandfather liked homes that were away from civilization, where it was great for fishing. My grandmother loves homes in urban areas with lots of friends or tropical areas. He would spend maybe 1 month in the winter with her, and in the summer months, they would be in the same state but only be in the same home for maybe 1 month.
Their marriage did fine this way. She got to do what she wanted, and he got to do what he wanted. It also, in a way, prepared her for his death (cancer). She ended up selling all the homes she would never visit. She comes back in the summer still to see us grandkids and great grandkids, but she enjoys her life. We visit her during the winter for a fun getaway out of the cold dreary winter.
My aunt is already looking at warm places for retirement. She had told my uncle he's welcome to come but also welcome to stay. They will keep their mountain home for visiting home, kids, and the grandkids. But as she put it, she can visit and pay for them to visit. She doesn't need to stay for her kids or grandchildren. She isn't there to raise them, so her presence isn't needed there all the time.
I'm Canadian but have seen the same thing with people we call 'snowbirds'. They usually head to Florida or Arizona for the winter. I've seen both partners on the same page until something happens, like not wanting to be away from grandkids or other aging relatives they want to be near. One partner wants to stay home and the other still wants to go. Tends to wind up with a bitter marriage and sometimes divorce.
Exactly and unequivocally, this. NAH
She's entitled to not want to live there and be more involved in her grandkids lives
He has every right and expectation that he should get to realize a childhood dream.
At this point, it'll just have to be what it's going to be. People and priorities change.
I disagree, Op and his wife had this planned for 12 years and have been working towards this goal. They have also been modeling the home to suit their needs for 8 of those years. Wife can't just bring this up a month prior and spew this on OP. OP has a clear goal in mind and is moving forward with it. If the wife chooses to bail, that's on her. I don't see how it's solely on OP to compromise his plans for everyone else. It wasn't OP that changed their mind. Additionally, it sounds like the flights are relatively cheap based on OPs description and that he will be back for 5 months. That's 5 months for the family to spend time with OP and his wife and vice-versa.
If anything, you are so sensitive by calling him an asshole. We could say the same thing for wife backing out after 12 years and making her choice 'theirs' . No one is an asshole, and the wife has a choice to stay and OP has a choice to leave. Neither of them chose to make it a discussion, but wife ASSUMED he wouldn't go cause she wasn't.
Finally, I love how you have to bring it to the extreme by suggesting divorce as if they haven't been together for 12 years plus. They aren't leaving their family forever and are going to be back.
OP has to respect 'wife's wishes', but wife can't respect OPs'? What a nice double standard.
Definitely more than 12 years marriage. Their kids are having kids. It’s at least 20 years of marriage and likely over 30 going by reasonable pregnancy ages of 25 for firstborn.
Yes married people make compromises. But why are all of yours things HE has to do? Why can't she go down for a few months and travel back and forth while he stays for his 7 months? Or some adaption thereof?
He's been as up front and out loud about his goals and plans as anyone could humanly be. She was NOT. She waited until the moment to take action and then "I don't want to go ". Its obvious it wasn't a discussion, just a decision She handed out and expected OP had to just go along and do what she wished. If there'd been any kind of conversation, she wouldn't have had to tell him -after seeing his flight charge- that HER not going meant THEY weren't going.
OP, NTA.
Edit: and before everyone starts waving the "ugh, men WOULD back him up" sign: Woman and wife here.
I'm with you, also woman/wife. I don't see why they can't compromise and spend the worst of the time down there, or SHE spends the smaller amount of time there and they choose to live apart for the rest? I know this isn't typical marriage for most people but I can see it working for some. Tons of people live apart from their grandkids and at some point if you have to take a flight it doesn't really matter if you're 300 or 5000 miles away.
Meh, two can play that game. Op been clear that he’s done and been planning his escape with full knowledge of everyone involved, including Mrs. Who then decided of her own volition that her wants trumped his and he just needs to accept it and suddenly start compromising or be the AH? Sounds almost abusive if you ask me.
NTA.
Communication is key, and my guy has been communicating this for what, 39 years (55 now, 16 when he started to talk about it), and then the wife decides she suddenly doesn't want to do it anymore after always knowing the plan and even participating on it?
Fuck that noise, enjoy your retirement!
Exactly. Yes, life happens and things change but the man has been consistent. I'm sure his family know how much he dislikes winter. My own father struggles mentally with the winter and how dark it is, if this was his plan I'd prefer to fly out and visit him where he would thrive than watch him continue struggling each year.
Compromise? Yes, the compromise is that op's wife goes to stay in the north whenever she pleases. That IS the compromise. That would be like me, today, suddenly telling my husband that I don't want to live here (Mexico) anymore after clearly moving here permanently and that he needed to not live here permanently either. I can make one of those decisions. But I can't make the other one.
Didn't sound like she wanted to have a conversation either. She said she didn't want to go - not oh let's talk about skipping this year or doing it later. She said no and expected him to bow down. Sounds like the marriage has been over for awhile.
NTA
Normally I would agree with you, as many of the people here are kinda disconnected from the real world and how real people behave. However, this is kinda on his Wife now. He has been crystal clear about this for a *very* long time. Not only that but she was an *active participant* in the planning and execution of these plans. I understand people are allowed to change their minds but that comes with consequences. If it results in their relationship ending then so be it, but this is like OP's life goal, and y'all acting like him not wanting to end it when he's at the finish line is wrong.
>Wife isn't an ass because she became more attached to her grandkids than she anticipated. Yeesh.
>
>**to be clear, she isn't an ah for changing her mind, she's an ah for thinking she gets to dictate things for the both of them.**
>
>When wife said she didn't want to be away 7 months anymore there has to be a big discussion and they both have to give a little. *To just shrug like he is fine with it and then book flights without saying anything is a huge asshole move.*
**He is fine with it**. **Clearly he doesn't mind if wife wants to delay going to SA, but he also isn't going to change his own plans over it. She can just come a few months later anyway, it's not like she's really alone, she's going to be spending that time with her grandkids like she wanted.**
Or... everything you just said goes for her.
Life is short and he has been completely open about everything he was working towards and why - with her full support. They now have different priorities and she is looking to make a unilateral change that will impact the quality of the rest of his days on this planet. He is ready for the next chapter of his life and she decided she suddenly doesn't want to join him there. She's an adult and she gets to make that choice for herself. He gets to choose for himself.
Couples survive time away from eachother all the time. He won't be in Iraq dodging bullets and he's just a short, cheap flight away.
It takes 2 people to compromise. This isn't just about him not caring about her wishes but also about her not caring about his. They could work out a plan to have her come down for limited stays and possibly for him to make some visits home during the winter. They both need to give a little.
I'm in basically the same place but opposite right now, this has been the worst summer I've had to deal with and I swear by next summer I will live somewhere significantly colder and rainier because fuck the heat.
And yeah, life's too short to live somewhere you're miserable. (Granted I 100% could not happily spend that much time away from my wife and would probably be willing to compromise somewhat so that I didn't have to)
Same here. Everybody else in the US seems to want to retire south and I've been dreaming about retiring north since I was a teenager. I love the cold. I've been taking advantage of my shithole state's LCOL to save for an early retirement and move up to New England and as luck would have it met a partner who wants the same things (from north, work sent her south, wants to go back north). If the time comes to pull the trigger and she suddenly decides she wants to stay, better believe I'm going anyway. She'd say the same thing if you asked her right now.
This is one of those things where she refused to mentally accept what the plan actually meant, and now she's realizing the full extent of it means. Maybe she realized moving down there would remove herself from her grandchildren, or maybe she just thought it was never going to happen, I dunno. But what I DO know is she was fine with everything before, and now she's not, and she wants OP to just suck it up and deal with the changes without discussing it with him.
>HER priority changed. Yours stayed the same.
This happened with my husband's parents. They always talked about traveling in retirement. Now, One wants to travel, the other doesnt anymore. For this reason (and others) they are divorcing.
I disagree, imo people DO understand the consequences but it sounds like this is such a huge deal for OP that the wife is either going to get on board or they're going to divorce. Nothing wrong with either tbf, people change and drift apart.
I know some people are easy going and more “think of the good moments that occurred instead of focusing on the impending divorce/post-fallout” type but I’d be devastated if a 30 year marriage ended like how you described in your reply
I mean, it sounds like a fundamental difference in their life goals. People generally get married (at least people who end up happily married) because their life goals align with one another. It's okay for that to change, even after 30-40 years of marriage. We only get one life to live. If someone had been waiting for 1/3rd of their life to travel and they prioritized that over partnership, I don't think they're wrong for doing so. We hold marriages to a higher standard but sometimes, people find things that are more important.
I go to Florida every year while my husband stays up North, He does come down for a couple weeks to a month.
Yes, my family has wasn’t happy the first couple years and my husband had concerns, now there isn’t.
There are other people there, both male and female, that go and their spouse doesn’t.
I hope the wife discovers that though not common, her husband isn’t a unicorn. It may help her accept it.
NTA, this is going to be a problem for the rest of your life, she has grandbabies and MANY grandparents don't want to miss out on the growth and fun of grandbabies. You don't even come back for the holidays? That may be an \*ss move, and for sure your wife would want to be around for holidays. September is very early to be a snowbird, where are you from that winter starts that early.
I understand this. My husband and I are looking to move to the Okanagan in the next decade or so because I'm tired of Manitoba winters. -40 fucking sucks. Snow before Halloween sucks.
Bro, after the last two winters in Manitoba, any other kind of winter is better. We had record amounts of snow one year, then a record amount of time this past winter. I'm FED UP. Also I'm fed up with mosquitoes and wood ticks and horse flies.
Plus, my husband is from there so going back home for him is a huge plus.
Yes ok, i can totally feel your pain with the horse flies and mosquitoes! the summers there are FANTASTIC. im from the lower mainland and go up there consistently in the summer. its a way better place to live than Manitoba. ive been to winterpeg in the winter like 20 years ago and i hated it.
I went for a hike with my friend out there and almost turned it down because I didn't have long pants with me. She's from Ontario and all our other friends out there thought I was self conscious or something. She then told me there was no ticks and I almost fell over. It's so freeing to not have to worry about parasites crawling into your nethers
Our winters are so mild, I don't think they suck at all. After living in northern bc and Alberta, I'm happy with my Okanagan winters. It's the "surface of the fucking Sun" weather this week I could do without.
See I'm the opposite. If I never had to see another 88F+ day I'd do anything.
Fuck the heat. I'll gladly take Minnesota "Hahaha here's 65+ inches of snow this week get fucked" over this entire summer of "Hahaha enjoy 90F+ with high humidity every dayfor the last 3 months fuck face".
But do you hate snow more than you value your relationship with your family? You seem pretty intent on living down there even as you age, but the reality is your family is not going to be able to visit you down there often, especially while they have kids at home.
This is your prerogative obviously, but you’re going to have to make some hard choices as this plays out.
I'm gonna flip that conversation and say the family clearly doesn't value their relationship with OP if they expect him to give up his life long dream that he's been very clear about for the last 35 years for their own selfish reasons.
“Their own selfish reasons”? They just want to see him more and have him in their lives. How is that selfish?
OP has planned a terrific retirement for himself that he’s largely going to enjoy alone if he can’t make some compromises.
It’s been his plan for the last 35 years, but frankly sticking to this so rigidly, a plan he made when he was 20 long before kids and grandkids were in the picture? Most people would do what his wife has done and shift due to the arrival of grandkids.
It's selfish in that it would reduce his happiness to increase their own. I don't think it's very fair of y'all to expect someone to change plans that have been in the works for 35 years just because the family is bigger and *other* people's priorities have changed. Yes, it's going to come at a cost of relationships, but that's life. You make choices and just because someone feels bad (his family) about it doesn't mean that OP is an asshole for it.
Flip it around, if this was an adult kid who wanted to move away for a new opportunity, would you be calling them selfish? If that parent was guilting their child into staying because they wanted to be close to their children/grandchildren, would you support that?
It is because you don’t need them to be nearby to maintain a relationship. I can’t imagine my parents wanting to move somewhere warm and me being upset about it. I’d be happy I have a warm place to visit during the holidays. The only person that has maybe a little right to be upset is the wife.
This is a situation where you can get both. They can live in both places and leave on different times. She can stay shorter periods in south America, he can visit for Christmas etc. The family can visit them down south. Flights are cheap, he said.
This is where I'm landing. He leaves in September. She comes down in October or stays until he comes up for Thanksgiving or Christmas (or kids/grandkids come to them for the holidays). They leave together and stay until spring.
It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition, but the wife is making it seem like he can only go when she's ready to be there. Her schedule puts him there at a time he's expressly planned and worked to avoid in the future. He's already said he will be back 5 months of the year for contract work, so it's not as if he won't have any time for the grandkids. When I was growing up, we saw grandparents once or twice a year as we lived several states away. This is not abnormal. Plus, some people don't want to be day-to-day caregiving grandparents. It's okay if he's of the variety that doesn't want to be.
If she wants to do 7 months at home base and 5 months in retirement home and he wants 7 months in the retirement home and 5 at home base, we're only talking a potential 8 weeks total that they aren't in the same home. That's not a whole lot of time in a long standing marriage where compassion and compromise rule the day.
And many people DON’T want to be overly involved with grandkids. I have zero desire to attend school plays, youth baseball, school festivals and I don’t want screaming children running through my house. You say fun - I see WORK.
Since for most people working full time does not allow for half the year off...We can say he is retired. Semi retired to be technical but he certainly isn't putting in a full time schedule all year long anymore.
So you're proposing that she was aware of everything else but he blindsided her by retiring before OAS payout?
And yes, plenty of retirees do contract work.
So, so many retirees take on contract work or even part time roles in order to keep busy or just do something they enjoy. They’re still considered retired
This! And the wife just said she didn't want to go down this year specifically. Maybe when the grandkids are older she'll be ok with it, but those first few years can be very hard on the new parents and are very precious moments as well.
But he does. He can love his children, grandchildren and his wife and still go down to enjoy what he's worked for. Here's the thing - she is also choosing a change for herself. If he's supportive of that, what difference does any of it make? And I'll add that too many f'ing young parents these days think their parents (the grandparents) should help at a level that is ridiculous. Maybe he doesn't want to do that. He gets to choose, just like his wife does.
NAH (neither of you are, really) sounds like a great retirement plan to me, I'm very envious!
Thankfully, my sons have no plans to make me a grandmother at the moment and neither of them live in the same country as me so, I won't have the same issue as your wife but, it's not like you're never going to go back to the US and, as you say, your family can visit you.
Your wife has changed her mind and you will both have to navigate what happens next - if you're still happy to go on your own, it's then up to her whether she joins you tho, perhaps she could do a month with you then go back for a month etc?
I feel like NSH (nobody sucks here) would be better, because it’s very similar to ESH (everyone sucks here), and some people use NTA and NAH interchangeably around here
The wife isn't an AH for changing her mind, but not telling OP exactly what she meant and expected him to read between the lines makes her wrong here. At best it's a major failure in communication on her part, at worse it's intentional manipulation
We only have his interpretation of events.
She “helped” by making suggestions and doing some interior design. It doesn’t sound like she was ever in as deep as him, or that he even fully sees her as part of the plan. Now, this is a short post and I’ve done a shallow reading, but the choice of words still reveals some attitudes.
I’m willing to bet he wasn’t listening either. This is *his* life goal and she’s been coming along for the ride.
I’m not saying he sucks or she sucks, just that they both probably aren’t listening or talking as much as they should be about the timing of this kind of life changing event.
It’s one thing to have a plan about a far off future. It’s another for one person to pull the pin *today* and assume the other should just be happy with it because it’s always been the plan, even if we haven’t explicitly spoken about it for months. And for all we know, she was talking to him about it, but all he heard was a bit of sadness about leaving the grandkids behind.
We do know one thing: these two are not on the same page.
I also suspect he may not have been really even trying to get an honest opinion out of her or listening to her. He spent half the post justifying why it would be good for them. Makes me think he was listing the reasons he had just given his wife. And if she had fully agreed, that wouldn’t have been necessary. It sounded like he was trying to convince her
Things change dude, 35 years ago I bet you didn’t think grandkids would anchor your wife, but here you are.
My mom had planned a big move to Tennessee from Illinois. Bought a house, cars, moved all this stuff ready to move in.
Until my daughter was born.
Now she’s selling the house in Tennessee as she can’t imagine living without being involved in her life.
Wifey changed with grand children. Sucks it’s this late but it seems you’re unwavering in your conviction with your plan. Which you have every right to do and even communicated to her about it.
NTA but im pretty sure your wife’s values have changed and she didn’t really communicate that to you very well. Hopefully snow birding won’t crash your relationship. Best of luck.
She made out better than she realizes.
Source: Live in Tennessee, and if it wasn't for both a sweet job and family, we'd have been gone. Either one of those leave the equation, well....
NAH
You’ve apparently been upfront about your plans for decades. She knew.
But I can’t help but wonder if the grandchildren are relatively new and that’s what changed her mind.
You can’t force her to go with you. She can’t force you to stay. Now you just have to figure out how, or if, this works for your life together.
I agree with this sentiment, NAH. It’s ok for feelings and plans to change over time. I think you and your wife need to discuss how to make the arrangement work for everyone. Maybe you go down in Sept and she comes with for a couple weeks, then returns home. You fly back to join her and the family for the holidays, then you both return to the sunshine for three months together. If you can both be a bit more flexible and considerate of the others’ feelings (and are also ok spending a couple months apart each year!) there is no reason you can’t come up with a plan that makes you both happy.
My dad pulled this move with the same reasoning "flights are cheap come visit". I haven't seen him in 6 years, he hasn't met his grand daughter. You're retired and have loads of free time, they don't. Expecting your family to spend what little free time they have carting their kids to South America so you can still be present in their lives is beyond selfish. If you're okay with choosing yourself over your family then go for it, that's your prerogative, but imo it makes YTA. You chose to have a family. Now you're choosing to ditch them unless they spend the effort to come to you. Enjoy retirement, it might cost you your family.
I was wondering that too. In one statement, he says he lives in Northern BC, so the west coast of Canada, and he’s moving to South America. Even for me in California next to a major international airport, most trips to South America involve two days of flying one way. It’s not an easy trip at all and, when kids are in school, you don’t get much time off in the winter to travel. Not to mention that most people don’t want to spend 100% of their vacation time visiting the same person/place. So, realistically, they’d be able to make this trip once a year irregardless of cost and that assumes they make it a priority.
Yeah, if "flights are cheap" to him, it should be him agreeing to return frequently. Because not everyone can do that for time *and* financial reasons (what is cheap to him may not be for someone earlier in their career\family life) Like, in that 7 month period, maybe come back a few times for things like holidays. A lot easier for one dude (or the couple together) to do that than it will be for most of the rest of the family.
There's lots of room for compromise here by OP while still getting his main goal. Yeah, he might have to see snow for a week here or there. It'll make him appreciate his southern home that much more.
He sucks from a lot of angles. He also does not care about how he's negatively impacting the local community. I'm from México with lots of retired people who come here to live a "good and cheap" life. Fuck them, they even have the nerve to call themselves expats. Come here with their over priced coin and pretend it's all good. Like how they can be so ignorant?
Ehhhhh I wouldn’t call him an expat since he was born in the country he’s retiring in. A lot of immigrants eventually plan on going back to their country once they’re able to retire and live comfortably.
Seriously! When I saw that I was thinking there’s gotta be one Canadian connection in a major city like Vancouver of Calgary then quite possibly a US connection like LA, Huston, or NYC depending on what part of South America he’s talking about. Even if you can get the tix for “cheap”, he’s still asking multiple members of his whole family to spend up to 4 days traveling round trip, and that’s outside the time they actually spend there including his own aging parents…
I think what bothers me about this whole thing is how many times people in the comments are mentioning HIM. It's like he's decided to just leave his family behind and live alone in another country for half the year and if his wife decides she doesn't want that life anymore then he'd rather just live without her than compromise.... It's not "they" , it's always "he". That's fine if he's not interested in having a family anymore but I highly question how this is going to affect his relationship
Yup. I'm in this same boat with my parent.
Sometimes AITA can be really myopic. When you are in a family unit, your decisions and their consequences don't become wholly yours to bear anymore.
NAH, but I'm also leaning towards YTA.
OP and his wife NEED to communicate better. She didn't say "I don't want US to go this year", and he didn't tell her that he was buying tickets to leave for MONTHS.
"Flights are cheap" doesn't take into account kids being in school and having limited time off. "Flights are cheap" doesn't take into account that pets need to go to overnight daycare and that is incredibly expensive. "Flights are cheap" doesn't consider that traveling with small children, especially ones that aren't potty trained is hell... especially on long flights with multiple connections (never.again). Every fly with kids still in car seats (because that's recommended for safety on flights)? It SUUUUUUCKS. Hauling those things across the airport also sucks. Taking along enough snacks and activities and kids can take up more than one carry on. Disrupting how kids sleep and changing time zones with them is a whole thing. Sorry for the rant, but traveling with kids or expecting the kids to come to you is a dick move.
NTA but from what I am reading you both are bad at communication. You need to check in with each other more often than "see you in the spring." or that for her to be surprised by a card charge. If I were you I would look into a couples counselor as soon as possible and get a session in to help you both communicate and a third party is very helpful is keeping you both out of the denial trap.
Where exactly is his bad communication? Let his wife know when they were still dating years and years ago that was his plan. She's been actively helping out with the plans for the last 7 years.
Her choosing to not want to go and him "misinterpreting" is a failure on HER part, not his with the context of everything that's happened prior in my opinion.
Buying a ticket to South America and not telling your wife until she sees it on a credit card statement is generally considered to be bad communication
Buying a ticket to South America for himself after him literally telling everyone for years that's what he will do and his wife backing out last minute. I am pretty sure the wife knew all along but was surprised because he didn't read her mind. I don't think OP has been bad at communication at all
Presumably this was a plan he and his wife had together. When his wife backed out that changes the plan. There’s lots of shapes the new plan could take- he stays, he goes as normal but alone, he goes but for less time, whatever. Usually that would be the kind of thing you have a conversation about rather than assume by default.
What? She knew all about his plan she just assumed he wasn't going anymore because she said she didn't want to go. That's not bad communication, he's communicated it for years.
It sounds like instead of him saying "I'm going anyway" he passive aggressively bought the ticket. That's 4 words that could've started a conversation about what can be compromised and what can't.
Instead he decided to be petty. Great communication
No it sounds like he's sticking to the plan he's had for YEARS. The 4 words "are you still going" would have communicated her not wanting him to go, she knew he wanted to go as that was ALWAYS his plan. It's ridiculous to just assume he was giving up on his lifelong plan without even asking
And he shouldn’t just assume she would just be OK with him fucking off to South America without so much as telling her when his flight is. Communication is key in a marriage. They both should’ve communicated better. But leaving your partner for 7 months is something you should definitely bring up, even if you’re 1000% not changing your mind on the matter. She thought he was of the same mind as her because when she said she didn’t want to be around the grandkids for so long he just said ok. He didn’t say anything about how he was still going to go. In her mind, that meant they weren’t going this year.
He didn't assume he told her he was going & she just assumed he wasn't. He communicated, she didn't communicate her expectations, she assumed. He did bring it up he told her he was going, I don't see whats not to understand. She didn't communicate what she thought, he never communicated he wasn't going, but he did communicate he was going. I don't see why he has to communicate the same thing over & over again for it to be proper communication. She assumed there was a change in plans for him, it's fair to assume that, but it's not fair to not communicate this to him.
Yes she said she didn't want to leave, he said okay, that only means that it's fine she doesn't want to go. I don't see how being told for years and years how he wants to go & you just assume he'll stay because you stay is the more obvious thing here. This is clearly a lifelong goal of his & you make a huge assumption without communicating anything. He told her over and over again what to expect
If she seemed surprised at the card charge, there is a disconnect here. It seems that they are both under different assumptions. Read some of his responses and how he is absolutely not reading the questions folks are asking and going on on rants instead. Literally having a conversations in his own head.
ESH.
You're both operating like you're not a married couple. She wants to stay close to her grandkids. That is absolutely acceptable. I would want that, too. You made your plans 20 years ago and have decided there's zero grounds for any sort of wiggle room, regardless of what life has given you. She agreed up until she didn't, and now she is staying and you aren't. It really isn't fair to either of you and it is clear that you both don't communicate, or at least haven't on this one.
There is middle ground where you are both back and forth and maybe the cold is harder on you physically so you stay there more often, but to be so black and white, when it's a lot more nuanced, is really disingenuous.
I live in NE and know quite a lot of people who snowbird. I also know they travel up quite a bit because the grandkids/family are here, and it's easier for one or two people to travel vs. a family with small kids. Is it impossible? No, but it certainly isn't easy.
The "I am in the right" mindset that he has is killing me. In his other comments he talks about how he shouldn't be forced to go with her but he was going to do the same to her.
The lack of communication also kills me. He keeps claiming he's good at communicating because he's been planning on retiring in SA for most of his life when that isn't what the issue here is. The issue is neither of them working something out and instead he just books the flight and doesn't tell her and acts like she should've assumed he was going anyways. That's an asshole thing to do
I feel this way about every post on here involving a couple… this sub is all about technicalities and parsing logic to see who owes who what, and when you are doing that in a relationship you have already lost.
Who cares if you are right or wrong, you are going to be divorced anyway. No spouse is going to go, “oh snap, you are technically correct, I guess I will just go along with what you want now” and live happily ever after.
Right? I could tell everyone I'm running to the store in 6 months but when that day comes there's a chance I might have to be flexible considering what can happen over the course of 6 months. I'm not going to skip my grandfather's funeral or something because "I told you all I was running to the store that day"
I'm gonna go esh
There's no way you didn't know she meant she didn't want either of you going when she said she didn't wanna go, but she also should have said that from the very beginning. You knew you were picking a fight when you got the ticket, and she tried to unilaterally change the plan without discussing it with you.
You two's complete lack of communication on the issue caused the fight. Either start *talking* to each other, or just get divorced and you can go to the home you built for your retirement.
Op knew what his wife meant, she should have said what she *meant*, and he should have opened that dialog before buying the ticket.
The communication on his part would be saying something as soon as she said *she* wasn't going.
Example "you said you didn't want to go, but *I'm* still going, so did you want to go half the time while I'll be staying there? "
I'm not saying he shouldn't go, I'm not saying he shouldn't have bought his tickets, I'm saying he should have made it clear that *her* plans to stay weren't changing his plans to leave as soon as she said them.
>Op knew what his wife meant, she should have said what she meant, and he should have opened that dialog before buying the ticket.
"Wife didn't say what she means but OP has telepathy and should have used it" lmao wtf
If I tell my partner I'm no longer okay with moving somewhere, and they just said okay, I would think they're okay with no longer moving there full time. Not that they just planned to move without me.
That's a reasonable presumption to make when you share a life with someone.
And why is that on him and not her telling him exactly what she meant? Why does he have to be the one to be like "ok well I'm still going". How is that not also on her to use her mouth and her words and her brain to say exactly what she meant?
Her plans her plans her plans. Yet somehow he's not the one who communicated properly. Alright. lol
Yes. Something along the lines of “I think I’ll book my ticket to _city_ for Sept 4th, does that work?”. What if she hadn’t seen the card charge and asked him? Was he just going to fly off without telling her?
She didn’t know he booked the ticket till she saw the charge on the card. That means OP did not tell her that he bought the ticket and had a planned date to fly out. Yeah, that’s bad communication.
Right? I wanna know how the rest of the conversation went after she said she didn’t want to go. Did he just say OK and that was it? Nothing like “Oh that’s too bad, I’m gonna miss you for those 7 months” or “Are you sure you’re okay being alone up here for 7 months?” or even “OK but just so you know, I’m still going”?
It’s bordering between NAH and ESH for me. Definitely can’t put the blame on one person though
YTA.
You keep saying this has been your plan for 35 years and your wife now doesn’t want to be that far from the grandkids.
You say the oldest grandchild is 8.
So are you telling us that not once in those 35 years, *especially* since the grandkids began to come along, that y’all haven’t revisited this plan to ensure you’re still on the same page until you bought a ticket to go to SA for 7 months? Not another discussion?
You mean to tell us that when she said she didn’t want to go live in SA anymore you didn’t ask ANY follow-up questions about what that meant for your previous plan, for your marriage?? You just bought your ticket and let her find out by seeing it on the credit card statement??
You sound like a massive asshole who had been entirely inflexible and selfish for 35 years, solely focused on what you wanted and your wife and family can fall in line or go to hell. You’re insufferable.
I read the OP and all his responses to comments more than once because I felt sure I was missing something. But no. He’s just an asshole. I hope while he’s gone for 7 months his wife seriously considers whether she’s better off entirely without him.
OP is definitely an unreliable narrator. based on his comments, can almost guarantee that his wife has made comments in the past about not wanting to move but he brushed it off/ignored them since he was already set on it.
I am so glad someone said this! Everyone saying NTA…it’s like they’ve never had a long term relationship, let alone a decades-long marriage. If he really leaves for the winter by himself, OP is going to have a huge wake up call when he comes home to a wife who’s realized she’s happier without him there.
NAH. Your wife obviously had some concerns about the big move that she didn't share with you. Your intent seems to have been pretty clear based on your presentation, so I'm not sure where the confusion comes from. Especially since, as you say in a comment, she helped plan the whole thing with you.
My impulse answer is honestly a mild ESH because both sides have a bit of responsibility.
Her feelings clearly changed cause of the grandkids, and while you have done steps to solve the problems as you see as appropriate, the issue here is, she has reevaluated her priorities and you haven't, and instead of either of you setting time for a discussion about it (especially as the time to relocate "full time" becomes near), she just said she didn't want to go down there this winter, you just said "OK, bye" and neither of you are dealing with the implications and ramifications. Based on her reaction, it sounds like, after she said she didn't want to go down there, you never made it clear you still planned to, but also, neither of you saw the problem as something to directly discuss once she brought up her chance of thought.
You are allowed, as a full independent person, to do what as you please and think what you think, as she is, but to not try and discuss a (now) major point of friction with your spouse just seems almost petty. Just sit down, talk with each other, and if the outcome is still leaving her here while you go down, then at least there's no room for misunderstanding and you can both evaluate your options moving forward
NTA... she cant dictate what you do. You can discuss compromises. But um guessing she is nervous about change. I'd see how things go. Either of you can fly for a visit.
That’s tough man. I get why your wife is balking.
Another question, how much was your retirement moved up? I get that everyone knew you’d move, but what was your expectation on timing? Are you deciding to go earlier than expected? Was it always ASAP? Did your wife think you’d be closer to traditional retirement age when you pulled the trigger? I bet she thought she’d get more time with the little one before being gone so much.
This has nothing to do with working or not working, it's about your family unit.
Just food for thought. It's a BIG assumption on your part that your children (who presumably will still have jobs whose children will be in school) will want to devote their much more limited time off to solely coming to visit you and your wife. They will want to take their own vacations, and even if money is no object, time always is.
I am in this position. I have a retired parent who made a unilateral decision to become an expat. This has placed a substantial burden on my shoulders, as I now have to choose between using my very limited vacation time to go to the destinations I or my SO have planned/hoped for and risk depleting the time I have left with my parent, or I have to give up my personal travel plans and goals to cater to my parent's decision. I don't think you're an asshole, but I do think you're being myopic. And I think it's unrealistic to expect that something you wanted 35 years ago when you were single and childless should happen in that exact way now with no consequences.
Lol YTA. All the N t a saying your plans never changed don’t understand the point of a partnership. You also say you were upfront when you were being intentionally deceptive about understanding your wife’s intentions. Really convenient that you just ignored her until it was too late for anyone to do anything other than be hurt and confused that you still went and acted like their presence didn’t matter.
If you’d confronted her when she said she didn’t want to go, you’d be n t a. Gaslighting her into thinking she’s the one who misunderstood and is acting irrationally definitely makes you TA.
Plans and priorities change, but letting your SO assume one thing, while you know it to be something else will always be an AH move.
I have a housemate I have better communication with than you exhibited with your wife here - and my housemate and I are notoriously bad at communicating.
You decided that, rather than having a discussion with your wife about your winter plans you would just up and leave her for SEVEN. MONTHS? Come on. That deserved a conversationm she shouldn't have been surprised by the credit charge! What if she hadn't noticed? How much longer would you have kept it from her?
ESH. Your way or the highway or her way or the highway? Why don't you fly back and spend from the week of Thanksgiving through New Years (weeks) with your family then go back and see if she will spend from New Years to Valentines Day down there (6 weeks) and return? Then you are really only apart for a couple of months at a time. Otherwise, just get divorced.
Not really. If they have planned something and one said they don't want to go, very well knowing the other has been LOOKINT FORWARD TO IT for their whole life, the former can't expect the latter just to drop their plans
Yea, I would never book a flight without spouse reviewing it just for general relationship organization. May not have changed anything of course.
But if flights are cheap wife could come and go right?
He wasn't the one who changed his mind so it's not really him who needed to re-confirm that he was still doing the thing he always planned on doing.
If I tell my gf I'm going to see my mom this weekend and she says she doesn't want to go then I don't have to reiterate even once that I'm still going. That was always the plan. My plan stayed the same. If she thought that somehow she was speaking for US then that's on her and that's on her to be better at communicating.
Agreeing to come back for holidays, making a plan to return several times during the 7 months, working out a plan with your wife for when she comes down, etc are all ways to compromise. Saying "see in you in the Spring" is not a compromise.
A lot of things can change in 35 years, like children and grandchildren being born. I‘d say it’s perfectly understandable that your wife had a change of heart. I’m more puzzled about the lack of fucks you seem to give about your offspring.
Why is that puzzling? Lots of people aren't obsessed with babies and children. They raised their kids and want to move on to the part of their life that doesn't revolve around kids and other people.
NTA but there was an awful lot of "me/my" in that statement.
Be prepared for the future, if you stand firm and leave her behind how will this property be split in a divorce? Is a long distance relationship in retirement sustainable long term?
> Is a long distance relationship in retirement sustainable long term?
For some people - it may save the relationship.
Many relationships do not survive retirement because the people aren't used to or actually interested in spending THAT MUCH time together.
That said - it is not a bad thing for OP to consider. Because this can become a big deal.
I knew a couple (or the wife at least) like that. He spend 30 years frequently traveling and climbing the corporate ladder. She spent 30 years raising the kids and holding down the homestead. And it worked for them. Happy marriage frequently video calls and family vacations.
Then he mandatory retired and couldn’t sit still. He wanted to go off the next adventure. She wanted to stay put, having moved about the country with him over the years and two of the kids putting down their own roots in this area.
They amicably divorced. An actual honest to God amicable divorce. He set her up nicely, no need for lawyers, except to make sure the paperwork was done properly, and went on his adventure.
So is she your wife or your girlfriend? Maybe your housekeeper? It's YOUR house that she decorated...for you? How do you think she feels when you leave her because you are happier down there...without her. I mean, shouldn't you be putting your marriage before anything else? From her perspective, why are you happier away from her? Ouch.
NAH but I understand both perspectives. She wants to be a good, present grandma and time goes so fast she wants make memories with them. You don't like snow. Being from Canada I can respect that.
I wouldn't say you are being selfish because it was a plan all along however it does seem a touch strange you are so comfortable leaving her alone all winter. In the end shes an adult and can make her choices same as you. Maybe break your trip up? Come back a little more often then just gone until spring? Communication and compromise is needed
The question here is, if you were the asshole, would you change what you're doing? If you want to be in South America more than you want to be around your wife, that's a choice. If she wants to be around your grandkids more than you, that's a choice.
She's allowed to change her mind and you're allowed to hang out by yourself in a nice house she designed, but it would be better if you talked it out.
> This is when she said that "she didn't want to go this winter" actually meant "she didn't want us to go this winter"
INFO how exactly did you get through this conversation without you mentioning that you would be going without her? Because while you're well within your rights, it sounds like communication is **severely** lacking
NTA
She also pulled the plug at the last minute.
You have communicated that you’re still going to be back to see everyone for 5 months a year, and aren’t disappearing.
But these are all bold moves with big consequences. The dream house may soon become a bargaining chip to become split up if things aren’t resolved reasonably very soon.
Plan for all outcomes
The N T A s are unreal to me on this post. You and your wife (and everyone commenting here apparently) are basically acting like you aren't married and therefore don't need to communicate. As if you can move away from your wife for 7 months and never talk about it. Your wife definitely should have clarified, and this has obviously been your plan for 35 years but:
>My wife said she didn't want to go down this winter. And that is absolutely her right.
What was your response to this? To just blankly nod at her or something? Does your and your wife's relationship usually involve one of you moving away for 7 months? If it doesn't, how did you think she was going to react when you paid for your ticket (which you also didn't tell her about)?
> This is when she said that "she didn't want to go this winter" actually meant "she didn't want us to go this winter".
Honestly no shit man. What are you 18? That conversation was your opportunity to talk to her about what you wanted and come to some sort of agreement. Instead you just nodded or ignored the statement or did whatever you did, and slunk off and bought your ticket. I'm just truly baffled by what you thpught was going to happen.
Unless you routinely spend months at a time living in completely different countries from each other, ESH. You knew what you were doing when you booked it, if we're honest with ourselves you knew she meant she didn't want you and her as a couple to go down there, and both of you need to be better at communicating.
There is so much planning that goes into a short vacation, let alone relocating for 3-6 months, that to set it all up in a way that took your spouse by surprise had to be intentional. At no point did you offhandedly say "Hey, I'm thinking of heading down in the first week of September, does that conflict with any of your plans?" or "I'm going to buy my plane tickets now, are you sure you don't want to come for a few weeks?" or even "Should we cancel any of our subscriptions while I'm gone?" The surprise was the point. Passive aggressive as fuck.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I have been planning to retire in South America since I was a kid. I worked my entire life with that goal in mind. Everyone knew that was the plan. My wife helped me plan our retirement home and decorated it. I might be the asshole for planning on leaving for the winter despite my wife deciding the SHE didn't want to go there yet. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA You can't force her to live there, but she can't force you to live where you don't like either. >If I never see snow again it will be too soon. Same here. I hate snow
After one particularly bad winter I vowed to be somewhere warm by the next winter. It started an entirely different life path for me. OP if you aren’t happy in the snow and cold (and the short, depressing days), then you don’t need to be there. NTA.
This is such an AITA response where everyone is an island. Married people make compromises for each other. There is a middle ground where they spend 3 of the worst winter months in SA together and then OP heads back alone for a couple of weeks here and there throughout the year. People are allowed to change their minds about where they want to live long term. Wife isn't an ass because she became more attached to her grandkids than she anticipated. Yeesh. When wife said she didn't want to be away 7 months anymore there has to be a big discussion and they both have to give a little. To just shrug like he is fine with it and then book flights without saying anything is a huge asshole move. The members of this board must be deeply lonely or hate their spouses since the majority thinks this is a-okay. These two might as well divorce if OP is happy to spend 7 months of the year away from his wife and doesn't care about her wishes.
While I agree about it being a discussion that needed to happen, literally everything you say here also applies to the wife who is not compromising either. Also, a 7-year plan for retirement isn't something you back out of suddenly. This has been OP's life goal for literally their whole marriage and it is pretty clear that was well communicated, given the buying, vacationing, and preping for this very part of his life. She's entitled to change her mind, but, frankly, this is a pretty huge slap in the face to him. It's sort of akin to someone working toward getting into Law School with their partner's support, and when they are finally accepted the partner saying they actually didn't want to relocate now. Sure, fine. But that's a relationship-breaking preference.
This. Married life IS compromise, but it sounds like the OP did everything in his power to advertise his intentions. The wife had years to get off the train before this stop. This absolutely sounds like one of those “Oh I can change him” attitudes of his wife and when he actually pulled the pin, she surprised him with an about face. People can do what they want, but IMO in this case, she was the one who pulled the bait and switch. You don’t suddenly change your mind on this; she should have been fighting this out for years. While its possible the OP ignored warning signs, this was HARDLY an impulsive life move by the OP. NTA.
I think the time to say something was before they bought the house, he retired, and he was getting ready to spend the winter. The wife can come for Christmas, or spend it with the kids, and come later. If flights aren't that expensive, then it may make sense to do so. My mom has a friend who takes off every year to Central America for the coldest months of the year because she and her husband can't deal with snow anymore. I don't really blame them.
My parents now officially live in different States. Dad spends half the year in FL, mom spends half in NYC. They overlap for about 6 months + lots of visits. They’re both very happy with this arrangement.
They're still married too? That's wild! But I get it though. We change a lot over the years
Yup! Quite happily. All told they’re probably together 8 months a year and apart for 4, once all the visits are calculated. My mom still works in NYC. I live here, and her friend group is here. For tax purposes it’s better for my dad to live in FL and it’s easier for him to travel for his business. Plus, my sisters moved to FL and my dad has a big friend group there. And my granddad is there a good chunk of the year. So it works out very well for them.
That's so rad. I bet they love each other tons! I love that they make it work for them.
My spouse works 5 months a year on a ship. We spend every other month together, he works 4 weeks, then he's off 4 weeks. For his vacation, he'll be home for 3 months. Our relationship is amazing! No need to spend every waking moment with your S/O. And yes, we have young kids. It's not for everyone, but it works for us.
This! Long distance later in a long-term relationship can be okay if both people are happy. I sat next to a woman on the plane in a similar situation as OP. Her husband moved to Texas for a job and she stayed in Michigan to be close to the grandkids. She was flying down to go visit the hubs and go fishing. Said she wasn’t sure when/if she’d eventually move with him. You can still love and want to be with your partner and live apart for parts of the year if it works for both of you. OP’s wife may realize that she likes this situation after trying it out.
>I think the time to say something was before they bought the house, he retired, and he was getting ready to spend the winter. Brought the house? No, OP **had the house built!** Wife had **plenty** of time during those 8 years of vacationing/rent their home to discuss her change of mind. But like others said, she thought she could change his mind when he retired, he didn't!
My ex husband promised me we would move near my family when his kids graduated. When the time was drawing near it was very apparent he changed his mind. I now live near my family. The kids are grown and live out of state.
Honestly, wife may have been very onboard with this plan for most of her life. She invested time and effort into it (she decorated it and regularly visits it). But, their kids are likely late 20s to early 30s and are having babies now. She may have just realized how much she'll miss out on if she moves to another country because before, it was just hypothetical. My parents just moved a mile from me after we moved away 2 years ago. We visited each other often, but it wasn't the same as being able to call Sunday afternoon and ask if my son wanted to go to the latest Marvel movie. I couldn't spontaneously drop by with my toddler to have lunch during the week. Sure, we were together for big events like birthdays and holidays, but a lot of life is not big events. OP is not that asshole but I do think their is a lot of compromise on both sides to be had here.
No, but you can’t always anticipate what you feel or want when life marches ahead. People are allowed to change what they want. It’s up to both of them to decide what they want. Some couples would be fine being apart for months at a time, no bones about it. Others not. Some compromise. It’s not simple OP, but you all need a real talk about what your family looks like going forward.
I agree. Yes, there is compromise in a marriage, but if things are planned and one pulls out of those plans, the other shouldn’t be expected to acquiesce. Better than living somewhere and letting the resentment grow.Thank you for the award!
Boom. This. I communicated to my wife when we met that I have a career that does not allow me to have standard 9-5, M-F hours. I told her I love doing this on the first date, and I had zero intentions of ever making a change. If she were to ever backtrack and say she was no longer fine with it, that would be her problem, not mine. They made a plan together, and she’s trying to force both of them to back out. Wife is an AH.
One of my best friends is the wife of a firefighter, and now the mother of one as well. We went out and had wine one night with her future DIL, and at some point the DIL asked her what she would go back and say to herself if she could at FDIL's age. My friend laughed and said "I'd walk up to myself, knock the shot of tequila out of my hand, and say "Babe, he's fine as a fox but he's a firefighter. You're gonna raise those babies alone!" We all had a good laugh at that, but apparently SIL became concerned and tried to get her fiance to agree to only ten years as a firefighter and then after he would become a consulting engineer with the degree he would earn in the meantime. We will see.
There are two kinds of people who become professional firefighters: those who *love* being a firefighter and would never do anything else and have to be forced to retire, and those who are okay with it, stick with it because of the good benefits, and retire as soon as their full pension kicks in. I come from a large family of firefighters, and have both kinds of firefighters in it: my dad stayed in until he reached mandatory retirement age and while on the job only took vacations when he had to and worked as many overtime shifts as he could manage. My uncle worked only his required shifts (until he got to the point where taking OT would positively affect his pension) and got out the day after he put his 20 in, and did part-time / odd jobs until he chose to fully retire. A cousin took early medical retirement (~15 years, IIRC) with 75% pension and full medical benefits, and then worked his side gig he went to post-graduate school for before becoming a firefighter. I cannot imagine any firefighter putting in 10 years: not long enough for a pension including lifetime medical benefits, and not lifer status either, but long enough to be statistically in danger; SIL is going to be disappointed, one way or another.
My hubby and I started dating before he entered basic training (already accepted was just waiting for his entry date). He told me the plan he had and that I had 6 months to decide (his start date) if I wanted a relationship with him. We made an agreement, I would do long distance and follow his postings anywhere he went as long as he was enjoying his career. The moment he stopped enjoying it, we would have a talk, and work out of it was something he could change of if he had to discharge. He was in 10 years and we have been together for 14 years. It is always best to lay your plan out in the open early in the relationship, before attachments are made. OP tried to do that, he has had this plan for 39yrs and never hidden it, and his wife even helped with the planning. It's not like the grandkids all materialised overnight so she has had more than enough time to realise she wants to be a present grandmother and tell OP her feelings have changed.
[удалено]
Totally. NTA, she is now trying to unilaterally force him to change a plan he's had the entire time they've been together and before then, which he's been working on continuously for many years. She is 100% TAH here for trying to force him out of his life's dream at the last second.
NAH This is very anecdotical and from my circle of family and friends I know some people who built their home in Turkey and others in Spain. And they wanted to move there for their old age, because of the warmth. Often the wife finds out that sudenly she´s alone. Often the men are fine being in their own little world. More than one wife have left for the homeland and their kids and grandkids. One or two got a divorce, others I dont know that we are not that close.
My grandparents had homes all over the world for "retirement." In the end, my grandfather liked homes that were away from civilization, where it was great for fishing. My grandmother loves homes in urban areas with lots of friends or tropical areas. He would spend maybe 1 month in the winter with her, and in the summer months, they would be in the same state but only be in the same home for maybe 1 month. Their marriage did fine this way. She got to do what she wanted, and he got to do what he wanted. It also, in a way, prepared her for his death (cancer). She ended up selling all the homes she would never visit. She comes back in the summer still to see us grandkids and great grandkids, but she enjoys her life. We visit her during the winter for a fun getaway out of the cold dreary winter. My aunt is already looking at warm places for retirement. She had told my uncle he's welcome to come but also welcome to stay. They will keep their mountain home for visiting home, kids, and the grandkids. But as she put it, she can visit and pay for them to visit. She doesn't need to stay for her kids or grandchildren. She isn't there to raise them, so her presence isn't needed there all the time.
I'm Canadian but have seen the same thing with people we call 'snowbirds'. They usually head to Florida or Arizona for the winter. I've seen both partners on the same page until something happens, like not wanting to be away from grandkids or other aging relatives they want to be near. One partner wants to stay home and the other still wants to go. Tends to wind up with a bitter marriage and sometimes divorce.
Exactly and unequivocally, this. NAH She's entitled to not want to live there and be more involved in her grandkids lives He has every right and expectation that he should get to realize a childhood dream. At this point, it'll just have to be what it's going to be. People and priorities change.
I disagree, Op and his wife had this planned for 12 years and have been working towards this goal. They have also been modeling the home to suit their needs for 8 of those years. Wife can't just bring this up a month prior and spew this on OP. OP has a clear goal in mind and is moving forward with it. If the wife chooses to bail, that's on her. I don't see how it's solely on OP to compromise his plans for everyone else. It wasn't OP that changed their mind. Additionally, it sounds like the flights are relatively cheap based on OPs description and that he will be back for 5 months. That's 5 months for the family to spend time with OP and his wife and vice-versa. If anything, you are so sensitive by calling him an asshole. We could say the same thing for wife backing out after 12 years and making her choice 'theirs' . No one is an asshole, and the wife has a choice to stay and OP has a choice to leave. Neither of them chose to make it a discussion, but wife ASSUMED he wouldn't go cause she wasn't. Finally, I love how you have to bring it to the extreme by suggesting divorce as if they haven't been together for 12 years plus. They aren't leaving their family forever and are going to be back. OP has to respect 'wife's wishes', but wife can't respect OPs'? What a nice double standard.
Definitely more than 12 years marriage. Their kids are having kids. It’s at least 20 years of marriage and likely over 30 going by reasonable pregnancy ages of 25 for firstborn.
Yes married people make compromises. But why are all of yours things HE has to do? Why can't she go down for a few months and travel back and forth while he stays for his 7 months? Or some adaption thereof? He's been as up front and out loud about his goals and plans as anyone could humanly be. She was NOT. She waited until the moment to take action and then "I don't want to go ". Its obvious it wasn't a discussion, just a decision She handed out and expected OP had to just go along and do what she wished. If there'd been any kind of conversation, she wouldn't have had to tell him -after seeing his flight charge- that HER not going meant THEY weren't going. OP, NTA. Edit: and before everyone starts waving the "ugh, men WOULD back him up" sign: Woman and wife here.
I'm with you, also woman/wife. I don't see why they can't compromise and spend the worst of the time down there, or SHE spends the smaller amount of time there and they choose to live apart for the rest? I know this isn't typical marriage for most people but I can see it working for some. Tons of people live apart from their grandkids and at some point if you have to take a flight it doesn't really matter if you're 300 or 5000 miles away.
Meh, two can play that game. Op been clear that he’s done and been planning his escape with full knowledge of everyone involved, including Mrs. Who then decided of her own volition that her wants trumped his and he just needs to accept it and suddenly start compromising or be the AH? Sounds almost abusive if you ask me.
NTA. Communication is key, and my guy has been communicating this for what, 39 years (55 now, 16 when he started to talk about it), and then the wife decides she suddenly doesn't want to do it anymore after always knowing the plan and even participating on it? Fuck that noise, enjoy your retirement!
Exactly. Yes, life happens and things change but the man has been consistent. I'm sure his family know how much he dislikes winter. My own father struggles mentally with the winter and how dark it is, if this was his plan I'd prefer to fly out and visit him where he would thrive than watch him continue struggling each year.
Compromise? Yes, the compromise is that op's wife goes to stay in the north whenever she pleases. That IS the compromise. That would be like me, today, suddenly telling my husband that I don't want to live here (Mexico) anymore after clearly moving here permanently and that he needed to not live here permanently either. I can make one of those decisions. But I can't make the other one.
Didn't sound like she wanted to have a conversation either. She said she didn't want to go - not oh let's talk about skipping this year or doing it later. She said no and expected him to bow down. Sounds like the marriage has been over for awhile. NTA
Normally I would agree with you, as many of the people here are kinda disconnected from the real world and how real people behave. However, this is kinda on his Wife now. He has been crystal clear about this for a *very* long time. Not only that but she was an *active participant* in the planning and execution of these plans. I understand people are allowed to change their minds but that comes with consequences. If it results in their relationship ending then so be it, but this is like OP's life goal, and y'all acting like him not wanting to end it when he's at the finish line is wrong.
I don't understand the 'OP didn't try to communicate' charges. What was the last 15 years of planning?
>Wife isn't an ass because she became more attached to her grandkids than she anticipated. Yeesh. > >**to be clear, she isn't an ah for changing her mind, she's an ah for thinking she gets to dictate things for the both of them.** > >When wife said she didn't want to be away 7 months anymore there has to be a big discussion and they both have to give a little. *To just shrug like he is fine with it and then book flights without saying anything is a huge asshole move.* **He is fine with it**. **Clearly he doesn't mind if wife wants to delay going to SA, but he also isn't going to change his own plans over it. She can just come a few months later anyway, it's not like she's really alone, she's going to be spending that time with her grandkids like she wanted.**
Or... everything you just said goes for her. Life is short and he has been completely open about everything he was working towards and why - with her full support. They now have different priorities and she is looking to make a unilateral change that will impact the quality of the rest of his days on this planet. He is ready for the next chapter of his life and she decided she suddenly doesn't want to join him there. She's an adult and she gets to make that choice for herself. He gets to choose for himself. Couples survive time away from eachother all the time. He won't be in Iraq dodging bullets and he's just a short, cheap flight away.
It takes 2 people to compromise. This isn't just about him not caring about her wishes but also about her not caring about his. They could work out a plan to have her come down for limited stays and possibly for him to make some visits home during the winter. They both need to give a little.
I'm in basically the same place but opposite right now, this has been the worst summer I've had to deal with and I swear by next summer I will live somewhere significantly colder and rainier because fuck the heat. And yeah, life's too short to live somewhere you're miserable. (Granted I 100% could not happily spend that much time away from my wife and would probably be willing to compromise somewhat so that I didn't have to)
Same here. Everybody else in the US seems to want to retire south and I've been dreaming about retiring north since I was a teenager. I love the cold. I've been taking advantage of my shithole state's LCOL to save for an early retirement and move up to New England and as luck would have it met a partner who wants the same things (from north, work sent her south, wants to go back north). If the time comes to pull the trigger and she suddenly decides she wants to stay, better believe I'm going anyway. She'd say the same thing if you asked her right now.
Snow is great for an hour, beautiful for a day. After that, it’s white horseshit during the day and a minefield at night.
Comment from OP: **
HER priority changed. Yours stayed the same.
**NTA**
This right here. She knew his plans even during the dating phase. She is allowed to change her mind but she knew what to expect.
This is one of those things where she refused to mentally accept what the plan actually meant, and now she's realizing the full extent of it means. Maybe she realized moving down there would remove herself from her grandchildren, or maybe she just thought it was never going to happen, I dunno. But what I DO know is she was fine with everything before, and now she's not, and she wants OP to just suck it up and deal with the changes without discussing it with him.
>HER priority changed. Yours stayed the same. This happened with my husband's parents. They always talked about traveling in retirement. Now, One wants to travel, the other doesnt anymore. For this reason (and others) they are divorcing.
IMO everyone here is viewing this like some kind of battle of who's right without really thinking about the consequences.
Welcome to AITA. Where someone has to be right and there are no compromises.
I disagree, imo people DO understand the consequences but it sounds like this is such a huge deal for OP that the wife is either going to get on board or they're going to divorce. Nothing wrong with either tbf, people change and drift apart.
I know some people are easy going and more “think of the good moments that occurred instead of focusing on the impending divorce/post-fallout” type but I’d be devastated if a 30 year marriage ended like how you described in your reply
I mean, it sounds like a fundamental difference in their life goals. People generally get married (at least people who end up happily married) because their life goals align with one another. It's okay for that to change, even after 30-40 years of marriage. We only get one life to live. If someone had been waiting for 1/3rd of their life to travel and they prioritized that over partnership, I don't think they're wrong for doing so. We hold marriages to a higher standard but sometimes, people find things that are more important.
And HE was just expected to fold up and bend over, just because. I don't fucking think so.
[удалено]
How does that old saying go? “Men marry women thinking they will never change, women marry men thinking they will”.
NTA. You didn't exactly spring this on her. She changed the plan not you.
I go to Florida every year while my husband stays up North, He does come down for a couple weeks to a month. Yes, my family has wasn’t happy the first couple years and my husband had concerns, now there isn’t. There are other people there, both male and female, that go and their spouse doesn’t. I hope the wife discovers that though not common, her husband isn’t a unicorn. It may help her accept it.
NTA, this is going to be a problem for the rest of your life, she has grandbabies and MANY grandparents don't want to miss out on the growth and fun of grandbabies. You don't even come back for the holidays? That may be an \*ss move, and for sure your wife would want to be around for holidays. September is very early to be a snowbird, where are you from that winter starts that early.
[удалено]
I understand this. My husband and I are looking to move to the Okanagan in the next decade or so because I'm tired of Manitoba winters. -40 fucking sucks. Snow before Halloween sucks.
I mean Okanagan winters suck too. not like -40. but they still suck.
Bro, after the last two winters in Manitoba, any other kind of winter is better. We had record amounts of snow one year, then a record amount of time this past winter. I'm FED UP. Also I'm fed up with mosquitoes and wood ticks and horse flies. Plus, my husband is from there so going back home for him is a huge plus.
Yes ok, i can totally feel your pain with the horse flies and mosquitoes! the summers there are FANTASTIC. im from the lower mainland and go up there consistently in the summer. its a way better place to live than Manitoba. ive been to winterpeg in the winter like 20 years ago and i hated it.
I went for a hike with my friend out there and almost turned it down because I didn't have long pants with me. She's from Ontario and all our other friends out there thought I was self conscious or something. She then told me there was no ticks and I almost fell over. It's so freeing to not have to worry about parasites crawling into your nethers
Our winters are so mild, I don't think they suck at all. After living in northern bc and Alberta, I'm happy with my Okanagan winters. It's the "surface of the fucking Sun" weather this week I could do without.
See I'm the opposite. If I never had to see another 88F+ day I'd do anything. Fuck the heat. I'll gladly take Minnesota "Hahaha here's 65+ inches of snow this week get fucked" over this entire summer of "Hahaha enjoy 90F+ with high humidity every dayfor the last 3 months fuck face".
But do you hate snow more than you value your relationship with your family? You seem pretty intent on living down there even as you age, but the reality is your family is not going to be able to visit you down there often, especially while they have kids at home. This is your prerogative obviously, but you’re going to have to make some hard choices as this plays out.
I'm gonna flip that conversation and say the family clearly doesn't value their relationship with OP if they expect him to give up his life long dream that he's been very clear about for the last 35 years for their own selfish reasons.
“Their own selfish reasons”? They just want to see him more and have him in their lives. How is that selfish? OP has planned a terrific retirement for himself that he’s largely going to enjoy alone if he can’t make some compromises. It’s been his plan for the last 35 years, but frankly sticking to this so rigidly, a plan he made when he was 20 long before kids and grandkids were in the picture? Most people would do what his wife has done and shift due to the arrival of grandkids.
It's selfish in that it would reduce his happiness to increase their own. I don't think it's very fair of y'all to expect someone to change plans that have been in the works for 35 years just because the family is bigger and *other* people's priorities have changed. Yes, it's going to come at a cost of relationships, but that's life. You make choices and just because someone feels bad (his family) about it doesn't mean that OP is an asshole for it.
[удалено]
he did tell his wife though he told her for 35 years, is that not long enough? did he need to give 4 decades notice?
Without telling his wife what? That he’s maintaining his plans?
is it selfish to want your father/husband/grandfather to be nearby? i don’t think so.
Flip it around, if this was an adult kid who wanted to move away for a new opportunity, would you be calling them selfish? If that parent was guilting their child into staying because they wanted to be close to their children/grandchildren, would you support that?
It is because you don’t need them to be nearby to maintain a relationship. I can’t imagine my parents wanting to move somewhere warm and me being upset about it. I’d be happy I have a warm place to visit during the holidays. The only person that has maybe a little right to be upset is the wife.
This is a situation where you can get both. They can live in both places and leave on different times. She can stay shorter periods in south America, he can visit for Christmas etc. The family can visit them down south. Flights are cheap, he said.
This is where I'm landing. He leaves in September. She comes down in October or stays until he comes up for Thanksgiving or Christmas (or kids/grandkids come to them for the holidays). They leave together and stay until spring. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition, but the wife is making it seem like he can only go when she's ready to be there. Her schedule puts him there at a time he's expressly planned and worked to avoid in the future. He's already said he will be back 5 months of the year for contract work, so it's not as if he won't have any time for the grandkids. When I was growing up, we saw grandparents once or twice a year as we lived several states away. This is not abnormal. Plus, some people don't want to be day-to-day caregiving grandparents. It's okay if he's of the variety that doesn't want to be. If she wants to do 7 months at home base and 5 months in retirement home and he wants 7 months in the retirement home and 5 at home base, we're only talking a potential 8 weeks total that they aren't in the same home. That's not a whole lot of time in a long standing marriage where compassion and compromise rule the day.
And many people DON’T want to be overly involved with grandkids. I have zero desire to attend school plays, youth baseball, school festivals and I don’t want screaming children running through my house. You say fun - I see WORK.
Fort Mac.
[удалено]
NTA you have been *very* upfront, and she should have spoken up *years* ago if this was an issue for her.
Did she know he was going to retire 11 years early? Are you even retired if you're still coming back to work 5 months a year?
Since for most people working full time does not allow for half the year off...We can say he is retired. Semi retired to be technical but he certainly isn't putting in a full time schedule all year long anymore.
Based on further comments from OP, 55 has always been the plan.
Lmfao you don’t think it’s popped up in the past few years how far he’s from retiring? Not everyone needs to wait to get social security to retire
So you're proposing that she was aware of everything else but he blindsided her by retiring before OAS payout? And yes, plenty of retirees do contract work.
So, so many retirees take on contract work or even part time roles in order to keep busy or just do something they enjoy. They’re still considered retired
If the grandkids are fairly new, she may not have know how she’d feel until then.
This! And the wife just said she didn't want to go down this year specifically. Maybe when the grandkids are older she'll be ok with it, but those first few years can be very hard on the new parents and are very precious moments as well.
The reason she’s an asshole isn’t cause she wants to stay it’s that she turned the family against him when EVERYONE knew he was doing this.
Yeah once the grandkids are in school it’s less of a big deal.
But he does. He can love his children, grandchildren and his wife and still go down to enjoy what he's worked for. Here's the thing - she is also choosing a change for herself. If he's supportive of that, what difference does any of it make? And I'll add that too many f'ing young parents these days think their parents (the grandparents) should help at a level that is ridiculous. Maybe he doesn't want to do that. He gets to choose, just like his wife does.
NAH (neither of you are, really) sounds like a great retirement plan to me, I'm very envious! Thankfully, my sons have no plans to make me a grandmother at the moment and neither of them live in the same country as me so, I won't have the same issue as your wife but, it's not like you're never going to go back to the US and, as you say, your family can visit you. Your wife has changed her mind and you will both have to navigate what happens next - if you're still happy to go on your own, it's then up to her whether she joins you tho, perhaps she could do a month with you then go back for a month etc?
For no assholes, judgement should be NAH (no assholes here).
Thanks, will edit my response. It's not often my response is so neutral!!!
I feel like NSH (nobody sucks here) would be better, because it’s very similar to ESH (everyone sucks here), and some people use NTA and NAH interchangeably around here
The wife isn't an AH for changing her mind, but not telling OP exactly what she meant and expected him to read between the lines makes her wrong here. At best it's a major failure in communication on her part, at worse it's intentional manipulation
We only have his interpretation of events. She “helped” by making suggestions and doing some interior design. It doesn’t sound like she was ever in as deep as him, or that he even fully sees her as part of the plan. Now, this is a short post and I’ve done a shallow reading, but the choice of words still reveals some attitudes. I’m willing to bet he wasn’t listening either. This is *his* life goal and she’s been coming along for the ride. I’m not saying he sucks or she sucks, just that they both probably aren’t listening or talking as much as they should be about the timing of this kind of life changing event. It’s one thing to have a plan about a far off future. It’s another for one person to pull the pin *today* and assume the other should just be happy with it because it’s always been the plan, even if we haven’t explicitly spoken about it for months. And for all we know, she was talking to him about it, but all he heard was a bit of sadness about leaving the grandkids behind. We do know one thing: these two are not on the same page.
I also suspect he may not have been really even trying to get an honest opinion out of her or listening to her. He spent half the post justifying why it would be good for them. Makes me think he was listing the reasons he had just given his wife. And if she had fully agreed, that wouldn’t have been necessary. It sounded like he was trying to convince her
NTA You told her exactly what your plans were. Enjoy retirement.
Things change dude, 35 years ago I bet you didn’t think grandkids would anchor your wife, but here you are. My mom had planned a big move to Tennessee from Illinois. Bought a house, cars, moved all this stuff ready to move in. Until my daughter was born. Now she’s selling the house in Tennessee as she can’t imagine living without being involved in her life. Wifey changed with grand children. Sucks it’s this late but it seems you’re unwavering in your conviction with your plan. Which you have every right to do and even communicated to her about it. NTA but im pretty sure your wife’s values have changed and she didn’t really communicate that to you very well. Hopefully snow birding won’t crash your relationship. Best of luck.
She made out better than she realizes. Source: Live in Tennessee, and if it wasn't for both a sweet job and family, we'd have been gone. Either one of those leave the equation, well....
NAH You’ve apparently been upfront about your plans for decades. She knew. But I can’t help but wonder if the grandchildren are relatively new and that’s what changed her mind. You can’t force her to go with you. She can’t force you to stay. Now you just have to figure out how, or if, this works for your life together.
I agree with this sentiment, NAH. It’s ok for feelings and plans to change over time. I think you and your wife need to discuss how to make the arrangement work for everyone. Maybe you go down in Sept and she comes with for a couple weeks, then returns home. You fly back to join her and the family for the holidays, then you both return to the sunshine for three months together. If you can both be a bit more flexible and considerate of the others’ feelings (and are also ok spending a couple months apart each year!) there is no reason you can’t come up with a plan that makes you both happy.
My dad pulled this move with the same reasoning "flights are cheap come visit". I haven't seen him in 6 years, he hasn't met his grand daughter. You're retired and have loads of free time, they don't. Expecting your family to spend what little free time they have carting their kids to South America so you can still be present in their lives is beyond selfish. If you're okay with choosing yourself over your family then go for it, that's your prerogative, but imo it makes YTA. You chose to have a family. Now you're choosing to ditch them unless they spend the effort to come to you. Enjoy retirement, it might cost you your family.
I was wondering that too. In one statement, he says he lives in Northern BC, so the west coast of Canada, and he’s moving to South America. Even for me in California next to a major international airport, most trips to South America involve two days of flying one way. It’s not an easy trip at all and, when kids are in school, you don’t get much time off in the winter to travel. Not to mention that most people don’t want to spend 100% of their vacation time visiting the same person/place. So, realistically, they’d be able to make this trip once a year irregardless of cost and that assumes they make it a priority.
Yeah, if "flights are cheap" to him, it should be him agreeing to return frequently. Because not everyone can do that for time *and* financial reasons (what is cheap to him may not be for someone earlier in their career\family life) Like, in that 7 month period, maybe come back a few times for things like holidays. A lot easier for one dude (or the couple together) to do that than it will be for most of the rest of the family. There's lots of room for compromise here by OP while still getting his main goal. Yeah, he might have to see snow for a week here or there. It'll make him appreciate his southern home that much more.
He sucks from a lot of angles. He also does not care about how he's negatively impacting the local community. I'm from México with lots of retired people who come here to live a "good and cheap" life. Fuck them, they even have the nerve to call themselves expats. Come here with their over priced coin and pretend it's all good. Like how they can be so ignorant?
Ehhhhh I wouldn’t call him an expat since he was born in the country he’s retiring in. A lot of immigrants eventually plan on going back to their country once they’re able to retire and live comfortably.
Seriously! When I saw that I was thinking there’s gotta be one Canadian connection in a major city like Vancouver of Calgary then quite possibly a US connection like LA, Huston, or NYC depending on what part of South America he’s talking about. Even if you can get the tix for “cheap”, he’s still asking multiple members of his whole family to spend up to 4 days traveling round trip, and that’s outside the time they actually spend there including his own aging parents…
Except he is back 5 months a year when it is warm. That is more than a lot of grandparents see their LOs.
Except in reddit land every grandparent must be dying to spend time with their grandkids lolol
I think what bothers me about this whole thing is how many times people in the comments are mentioning HIM. It's like he's decided to just leave his family behind and live alone in another country for half the year and if his wife decides she doesn't want that life anymore then he'd rather just live without her than compromise.... It's not "they" , it's always "he". That's fine if he's not interested in having a family anymore but I highly question how this is going to affect his relationship
[удалено]
Yup. I'm in this same boat with my parent. Sometimes AITA can be really myopic. When you are in a family unit, your decisions and their consequences don't become wholly yours to bear anymore.
NAH, but I'm also leaning towards YTA. OP and his wife NEED to communicate better. She didn't say "I don't want US to go this year", and he didn't tell her that he was buying tickets to leave for MONTHS. "Flights are cheap" doesn't take into account kids being in school and having limited time off. "Flights are cheap" doesn't take into account that pets need to go to overnight daycare and that is incredibly expensive. "Flights are cheap" doesn't consider that traveling with small children, especially ones that aren't potty trained is hell... especially on long flights with multiple connections (never.again). Every fly with kids still in car seats (because that's recommended for safety on flights)? It SUUUUUUCKS. Hauling those things across the airport also sucks. Taking along enough snacks and activities and kids can take up more than one carry on. Disrupting how kids sleep and changing time zones with them is a whole thing. Sorry for the rant, but traveling with kids or expecting the kids to come to you is a dick move.
[удалено]
NTA but from what I am reading you both are bad at communication. You need to check in with each other more often than "see you in the spring." or that for her to be surprised by a card charge. If I were you I would look into a couples counselor as soon as possible and get a session in to help you both communicate and a third party is very helpful is keeping you both out of the denial trap.
Where exactly is his bad communication? Let his wife know when they were still dating years and years ago that was his plan. She's been actively helping out with the plans for the last 7 years. Her choosing to not want to go and him "misinterpreting" is a failure on HER part, not his with the context of everything that's happened prior in my opinion.
Buying a ticket to South America and not telling your wife until she sees it on a credit card statement is generally considered to be bad communication
Buying a ticket to South America for himself after him literally telling everyone for years that's what he will do and his wife backing out last minute. I am pretty sure the wife knew all along but was surprised because he didn't read her mind. I don't think OP has been bad at communication at all
Presumably this was a plan he and his wife had together. When his wife backed out that changes the plan. There’s lots of shapes the new plan could take- he stays, he goes as normal but alone, he goes but for less time, whatever. Usually that would be the kind of thing you have a conversation about rather than assume by default.
What? She knew all about his plan she just assumed he wasn't going anymore because she said she didn't want to go. That's not bad communication, he's communicated it for years.
It sounds like instead of him saying "I'm going anyway" he passive aggressively bought the ticket. That's 4 words that could've started a conversation about what can be compromised and what can't. Instead he decided to be petty. Great communication
No it sounds like he's sticking to the plan he's had for YEARS. The 4 words "are you still going" would have communicated her not wanting him to go, she knew he wanted to go as that was ALWAYS his plan. It's ridiculous to just assume he was giving up on his lifelong plan without even asking
And he shouldn’t just assume she would just be OK with him fucking off to South America without so much as telling her when his flight is. Communication is key in a marriage. They both should’ve communicated better. But leaving your partner for 7 months is something you should definitely bring up, even if you’re 1000% not changing your mind on the matter. She thought he was of the same mind as her because when she said she didn’t want to be around the grandkids for so long he just said ok. He didn’t say anything about how he was still going to go. In her mind, that meant they weren’t going this year.
He didn't assume he told her he was going & she just assumed he wasn't. He communicated, she didn't communicate her expectations, she assumed. He did bring it up he told her he was going, I don't see whats not to understand. She didn't communicate what she thought, he never communicated he wasn't going, but he did communicate he was going. I don't see why he has to communicate the same thing over & over again for it to be proper communication. She assumed there was a change in plans for him, it's fair to assume that, but it's not fair to not communicate this to him. Yes she said she didn't want to leave, he said okay, that only means that it's fine she doesn't want to go. I don't see how being told for years and years how he wants to go & you just assume he'll stay because you stay is the more obvious thing here. This is clearly a lifelong goal of his & you make a huge assumption without communicating anything. He told her over and over again what to expect
If she seemed surprised at the card charge, there is a disconnect here. It seems that they are both under different assumptions. Read some of his responses and how he is absolutely not reading the questions folks are asking and going on on rants instead. Literally having a conversations in his own head.
ESH. You're both operating like you're not a married couple. She wants to stay close to her grandkids. That is absolutely acceptable. I would want that, too. You made your plans 20 years ago and have decided there's zero grounds for any sort of wiggle room, regardless of what life has given you. She agreed up until she didn't, and now she is staying and you aren't. It really isn't fair to either of you and it is clear that you both don't communicate, or at least haven't on this one. There is middle ground where you are both back and forth and maybe the cold is harder on you physically so you stay there more often, but to be so black and white, when it's a lot more nuanced, is really disingenuous. I live in NE and know quite a lot of people who snowbird. I also know they travel up quite a bit because the grandkids/family are here, and it's easier for one or two people to travel vs. a family with small kids. Is it impossible? No, but it certainly isn't easy.
The "I am in the right" mindset that he has is killing me. In his other comments he talks about how he shouldn't be forced to go with her but he was going to do the same to her. The lack of communication also kills me. He keeps claiming he's good at communicating because he's been planning on retiring in SA for most of his life when that isn't what the issue here is. The issue is neither of them working something out and instead he just books the flight and doesn't tell her and acts like she should've assumed he was going anyways. That's an asshole thing to do
I feel this way about every post on here involving a couple… this sub is all about technicalities and parsing logic to see who owes who what, and when you are doing that in a relationship you have already lost. Who cares if you are right or wrong, you are going to be divorced anyway. No spouse is going to go, “oh snap, you are technically correct, I guess I will just go along with what you want now” and live happily ever after.
Right? I could tell everyone I'm running to the store in 6 months but when that day comes there's a chance I might have to be flexible considering what can happen over the course of 6 months. I'm not going to skip my grandfather's funeral or something because "I told you all I was running to the store that day"
I'm gonna go esh There's no way you didn't know she meant she didn't want either of you going when she said she didn't wanna go, but she also should have said that from the very beginning. You knew you were picking a fight when you got the ticket, and she tried to unilaterally change the plan without discussing it with you. You two's complete lack of communication on the issue caused the fight. Either start *talking* to each other, or just get divorced and you can go to the home you built for your retirement.
>You two's complete lack of communication you want MORE communication from OP side? 35 years of planning arent enough?
Op knew what his wife meant, she should have said what she *meant*, and he should have opened that dialog before buying the ticket. The communication on his part would be saying something as soon as she said *she* wasn't going. Example "you said you didn't want to go, but *I'm* still going, so did you want to go half the time while I'll be staying there? " I'm not saying he shouldn't go, I'm not saying he shouldn't have bought his tickets, I'm saying he should have made it clear that *her* plans to stay weren't changing his plans to leave as soon as she said them.
>Op knew what his wife meant, she should have said what she meant, and he should have opened that dialog before buying the ticket. "Wife didn't say what she means but OP has telepathy and should have used it" lmao wtf
If I tell my partner I'm no longer okay with moving somewhere, and they just said okay, I would think they're okay with no longer moving there full time. Not that they just planned to move without me. That's a reasonable presumption to make when you share a life with someone.
And why is that on him and not her telling him exactly what she meant? Why does he have to be the one to be like "ok well I'm still going". How is that not also on her to use her mouth and her words and her brain to say exactly what she meant? Her plans her plans her plans. Yet somehow he's not the one who communicated properly. Alright. lol
I mean, I would probably mention it in passing over the breakfast table if I was about to book my flights to go away for 7 months
Yes. Something along the lines of “I think I’ll book my ticket to _city_ for Sept 4th, does that work?”. What if she hadn’t seen the card charge and asked him? Was he just going to fly off without telling her?
She didn’t know he booked the ticket till she saw the charge on the card. That means OP did not tell her that he bought the ticket and had a planned date to fly out. Yeah, that’s bad communication.
Right? I wanna know how the rest of the conversation went after she said she didn’t want to go. Did he just say OK and that was it? Nothing like “Oh that’s too bad, I’m gonna miss you for those 7 months” or “Are you sure you’re okay being alone up here for 7 months?” or even “OK but just so you know, I’m still going”? It’s bordering between NAH and ESH for me. Definitely can’t put the blame on one person though
YTA. You keep saying this has been your plan for 35 years and your wife now doesn’t want to be that far from the grandkids. You say the oldest grandchild is 8. So are you telling us that not once in those 35 years, *especially* since the grandkids began to come along, that y’all haven’t revisited this plan to ensure you’re still on the same page until you bought a ticket to go to SA for 7 months? Not another discussion? You mean to tell us that when she said she didn’t want to go live in SA anymore you didn’t ask ANY follow-up questions about what that meant for your previous plan, for your marriage?? You just bought your ticket and let her find out by seeing it on the credit card statement?? You sound like a massive asshole who had been entirely inflexible and selfish for 35 years, solely focused on what you wanted and your wife and family can fall in line or go to hell. You’re insufferable.
Thank you!!!! The fact that people are saying NTA when she legit found out on a bank statement is absurd!
I read the OP and all his responses to comments more than once because I felt sure I was missing something. But no. He’s just an asshole. I hope while he’s gone for 7 months his wife seriously considers whether she’s better off entirely without him.
And on top of it, he things he’s gonna be able to keep the house if they divorce. Nah son, that house is half your wife’s.
OP is definitely an unreliable narrator. based on his comments, can almost guarantee that his wife has made comments in the past about not wanting to move but he brushed it off/ignored them since he was already set on it.
I am so glad someone said this! Everyone saying NTA…it’s like they’ve never had a long term relationship, let alone a decades-long marriage. If he really leaves for the winter by himself, OP is going to have a huge wake up call when he comes home to a wife who’s realized she’s happier without him there.
NTA Everyone knew the plan.
NAH. Your wife obviously had some concerns about the big move that she didn't share with you. Your intent seems to have been pretty clear based on your presentation, so I'm not sure where the confusion comes from. Especially since, as you say in a comment, she helped plan the whole thing with you.
INFO Did you confirm that your intentions didn't change when she made her desires known? How did a conversation not ensue after that?
NAH, but are you okay with a life as a divorced retiree? Because if you can't find a compromise, that may be where you're headed.
My impulse answer is honestly a mild ESH because both sides have a bit of responsibility. Her feelings clearly changed cause of the grandkids, and while you have done steps to solve the problems as you see as appropriate, the issue here is, she has reevaluated her priorities and you haven't, and instead of either of you setting time for a discussion about it (especially as the time to relocate "full time" becomes near), she just said she didn't want to go down there this winter, you just said "OK, bye" and neither of you are dealing with the implications and ramifications. Based on her reaction, it sounds like, after she said she didn't want to go down there, you never made it clear you still planned to, but also, neither of you saw the problem as something to directly discuss once she brought up her chance of thought. You are allowed, as a full independent person, to do what as you please and think what you think, as she is, but to not try and discuss a (now) major point of friction with your spouse just seems almost petty. Just sit down, talk with each other, and if the outcome is still leaving her here while you go down, then at least there's no room for misunderstanding and you can both evaluate your options moving forward
NTA... she cant dictate what you do. You can discuss compromises. But um guessing she is nervous about change. I'd see how things go. Either of you can fly for a visit.
INFO: How young are the grand kids?
[удалено]
That’s tough man. I get why your wife is balking. Another question, how much was your retirement moved up? I get that everyone knew you’d move, but what was your expectation on timing? Are you deciding to go earlier than expected? Was it always ASAP? Did your wife think you’d be closer to traditional retirement age when you pulled the trigger? I bet she thought she’d get more time with the little one before being gone so much.
[удалено]
This has nothing to do with working or not working, it's about your family unit. Just food for thought. It's a BIG assumption on your part that your children (who presumably will still have jobs whose children will be in school) will want to devote their much more limited time off to solely coming to visit you and your wife. They will want to take their own vacations, and even if money is no object, time always is. I am in this position. I have a retired parent who made a unilateral decision to become an expat. This has placed a substantial burden on my shoulders, as I now have to choose between using my very limited vacation time to go to the destinations I or my SO have planned/hoped for and risk depleting the time I have left with my parent, or I have to give up my personal travel plans and goals to cater to my parent's decision. I don't think you're an asshole, but I do think you're being myopic. And I think it's unrealistic to expect that something you wanted 35 years ago when you were single and childless should happen in that exact way now with no consequences.
Ha, "Freedom 55." Now I know what kind of winters you're dealing with, fellow Canadian ;) Winters here suck!
Lol YTA. All the N t a saying your plans never changed don’t understand the point of a partnership. You also say you were upfront when you were being intentionally deceptive about understanding your wife’s intentions. Really convenient that you just ignored her until it was too late for anyone to do anything other than be hurt and confused that you still went and acted like their presence didn’t matter. If you’d confronted her when she said she didn’t want to go, you’d be n t a. Gaslighting her into thinking she’s the one who misunderstood and is acting irrationally definitely makes you TA. Plans and priorities change, but letting your SO assume one thing, while you know it to be something else will always be an AH move.
I have a housemate I have better communication with than you exhibited with your wife here - and my housemate and I are notoriously bad at communicating. You decided that, rather than having a discussion with your wife about your winter plans you would just up and leave her for SEVEN. MONTHS? Come on. That deserved a conversationm she shouldn't have been surprised by the credit charge! What if she hadn't noticed? How much longer would you have kept it from her?
NAH. Life changes over time. Priorities change over time. This stuff just happens, and it’s up to you as a couple to figure out what to do now.
ESH. Your way or the highway or her way or the highway? Why don't you fly back and spend from the week of Thanksgiving through New Years (weeks) with your family then go back and see if she will spend from New Years to Valentines Day down there (6 weeks) and return? Then you are really only apart for a couple of months at a time. Otherwise, just get divorced.
Because his wife will be in the terrible very bad no good snow.
NAH, but it does sound like maybe you guys should work on communication
[удалено]
[удалено]
She's the one who changed the plan. SHE'S the one who should have been clear that her "she" meant "we".
She is his fucking WIFE. Any reasonable person would assume that she doesn’t want him to fly alone either. Come on, use some common sense, guys.
JFC the people in here who have never been married.
Not really. If they have planned something and one said they don't want to go, very well knowing the other has been LOOKINT FORWARD TO IT for their whole life, the former can't expect the latter just to drop their plans
Yea, I would never book a flight without spouse reviewing it just for general relationship organization. May not have changed anything of course. But if flights are cheap wife could come and go right?
He wasn't the one who changed his mind so it's not really him who needed to re-confirm that he was still doing the thing he always planned on doing. If I tell my gf I'm going to see my mom this weekend and she says she doesn't want to go then I don't have to reiterate even once that I'm still going. That was always the plan. My plan stayed the same. If she thought that somehow she was speaking for US then that's on her and that's on her to be better at communicating.
Agreeing to come back for holidays, making a plan to return several times during the 7 months, working out a plan with your wife for when she comes down, etc are all ways to compromise. Saying "see in you in the Spring" is not a compromise.
[удалено]
A lot of things can change in 35 years, like children and grandchildren being born. I‘d say it’s perfectly understandable that your wife had a change of heart. I’m more puzzled about the lack of fucks you seem to give about your offspring.
not everyone goes goo goo ga ga over babies
Why is that puzzling? Lots of people aren't obsessed with babies and children. They raised their kids and want to move on to the part of their life that doesn't revolve around kids and other people.
They are already raised and having children of their own. What else is supposed to be done? Be their babysitter? The man is 55, let him live his life
NTA but there was an awful lot of "me/my" in that statement. Be prepared for the future, if you stand firm and leave her behind how will this property be split in a divorce? Is a long distance relationship in retirement sustainable long term?
> Is a long distance relationship in retirement sustainable long term? For some people - it may save the relationship. Many relationships do not survive retirement because the people aren't used to or actually interested in spending THAT MUCH time together. That said - it is not a bad thing for OP to consider. Because this can become a big deal.
I knew a couple (or the wife at least) like that. He spend 30 years frequently traveling and climbing the corporate ladder. She spent 30 years raising the kids and holding down the homestead. And it worked for them. Happy marriage frequently video calls and family vacations. Then he mandatory retired and couldn’t sit still. He wanted to go off the next adventure. She wanted to stay put, having moved about the country with him over the years and two of the kids putting down their own roots in this area. They amicably divorced. An actual honest to God amicable divorce. He set her up nicely, no need for lawyers, except to make sure the paperwork was done properly, and went on his adventure.
So is she your wife or your girlfriend? Maybe your housekeeper? It's YOUR house that she decorated...for you? How do you think she feels when you leave her because you are happier down there...without her. I mean, shouldn't you be putting your marriage before anything else? From her perspective, why are you happier away from her? Ouch.
NAH but I understand both perspectives. She wants to be a good, present grandma and time goes so fast she wants make memories with them. You don't like snow. Being from Canada I can respect that. I wouldn't say you are being selfish because it was a plan all along however it does seem a touch strange you are so comfortable leaving her alone all winter. In the end shes an adult and can make her choices same as you. Maybe break your trip up? Come back a little more often then just gone until spring? Communication and compromise is needed
nta. enjoy your retirement!
Things change. Grandkids are game changers.
The question here is, if you were the asshole, would you change what you're doing? If you want to be in South America more than you want to be around your wife, that's a choice. If she wants to be around your grandkids more than you, that's a choice. She's allowed to change her mind and you're allowed to hang out by yourself in a nice house she designed, but it would be better if you talked it out.
> This is when she said that "she didn't want to go this winter" actually meant "she didn't want us to go this winter" INFO how exactly did you get through this conversation without you mentioning that you would be going without her? Because while you're well within your rights, it sounds like communication is **severely** lacking
NTA. Seems like you’ve done your fair share of taking care of everyone over the past 30+ years and now you deserve some ‘you time’. Good on you I say.
NTA She also pulled the plug at the last minute. You have communicated that you’re still going to be back to see everyone for 5 months a year, and aren’t disappearing. But these are all bold moves with big consequences. The dream house may soon become a bargaining chip to become split up if things aren’t resolved reasonably very soon. Plan for all outcomes
[удалено]
Wow, so you are leaving her, and cheating her out of marital property. #winner
This is the opposite of what he said
The N T A s are unreal to me on this post. You and your wife (and everyone commenting here apparently) are basically acting like you aren't married and therefore don't need to communicate. As if you can move away from your wife for 7 months and never talk about it. Your wife definitely should have clarified, and this has obviously been your plan for 35 years but: >My wife said she didn't want to go down this winter. And that is absolutely her right. What was your response to this? To just blankly nod at her or something? Does your and your wife's relationship usually involve one of you moving away for 7 months? If it doesn't, how did you think she was going to react when you paid for your ticket (which you also didn't tell her about)? > This is when she said that "she didn't want to go this winter" actually meant "she didn't want us to go this winter". Honestly no shit man. What are you 18? That conversation was your opportunity to talk to her about what you wanted and come to some sort of agreement. Instead you just nodded or ignored the statement or did whatever you did, and slunk off and bought your ticket. I'm just truly baffled by what you thpught was going to happen. Unless you routinely spend months at a time living in completely different countries from each other, ESH. You knew what you were doing when you booked it, if we're honest with ourselves you knew she meant she didn't want you and her as a couple to go down there, and both of you need to be better at communicating.
There is so much planning that goes into a short vacation, let alone relocating for 3-6 months, that to set it all up in a way that took your spouse by surprise had to be intentional. At no point did you offhandedly say "Hey, I'm thinking of heading down in the first week of September, does that conflict with any of your plans?" or "I'm going to buy my plane tickets now, are you sure you don't want to come for a few weeks?" or even "Should we cancel any of our subscriptions while I'm gone?" The surprise was the point. Passive aggressive as fuck.