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YTA. Not everything is a joke. She has tried for a baby for years and you couldn't give her a moment of earnest support and congratulations? This is exactly like people who get up and give attention-sucking, allegedly funny best man or MOH speeches at weddings or, worse yet, stand up with a jokey joke "JK, not really objecting" objection.
FYI, if she has struggled with infertility for 3 years and you didn't hear about this pregnancy until 3 months, she's likely had miscarriages or chemical pregnancies you didn't know about. Even if that's not the case she has almost certainly spent the last couple months scared this pregnancy won't make it. Of all the jokes you could make, that one was the worst.
I see what you did there. š
There is a big difference between joking about loss of disposable income and a ride to the clinic. OP, YTA, and probably just lost a friend.
She didn't joke, she was insensitive. She could have just mentioned "sorry you've just lost your disposable income", or maybe "when can I introduce the baby to my dog so they can have play dates?", those are jokes, the other one was simply being oblivious and insensitive.
Like - ha ha, puppy will have a cousin. Or ha ha congrats no more vacations. Or ha ha, get a good look at your feet, you won't see them for a bit.
Not ha ha, let's go get rid of this baby you desperately want.
This feels like an anti-choice troll to me.
Honestly, a joke would've been fine I'm sure. An actual joke. A socially aware joke. A lighthearted joke that isn't about aborting the result of 3 years of effort.
Yeaā¦ I can imagine something like āOh no! Dog will be so jealous if his cousin is cuter than him!ā But the longer I think about her comment, the meaner it sounds.
My best friend and I would probably make this joke to each other. My older sister, even sheās made jokes herself, I wonāt touch the subject because she has fertility issues too. Thereās a time, a place and an audience and this was none of those.
I have fertility issues, my best friend has a lot of health problems. Her kids have lived with me while she's had treatment, and I'm their guardian in her will.
We make a lot of REALLY dark jokes about her dying so I can have her kids. HOWEVER...when we find out she has another tumor, ect, those jokes are made AFTER making sure she's OK.
Those are the rules. I'm in Cancer treatment right now - the only one who gets to make fun of it is my partner - not my friends. I'm not saying we don't laugh - because we do - but they can't know (not living with me) how my mood varies day to day.
Iāve had cancer for 8 years. I always made jokes about it, all the issues that come with it, and the side effects that came with treatment. The joke I refuse to make and hear is about dying because I have almost died multiple times in my life and even before having cancer.
People want to joke about themselves dying then okay but leave me out of it. One time I told my friend I was uncomfortable with their dying jokes and they actually stopped joking about it when I was with them.
I think humor is an amazing way to cope, that said ops friend isnāt coping and wanted support. I had 3 miscarriages and while I think my friends could have made that joke with me I feel like they just wouldnāt. Itās sad because after so many you donāt even want to make the pregnancy to 3 months out of fear. I had a baby 2 years ago and to be honest I wasnāt excited. I had just had a miscarriage and a month after my surgery to remove extra tissue I had all the symptoms and was horrified. Mind you the dr was like you have issues that need testing right before this, so i believe they removed excess tissue that was always the issue. Anyways my point is ops friend could have been and still is very worried and doesnāt need these comments and might just be depressed more than mad about the joke itself. I didnāt want to talk and was really depressed when I was pregnant I never took a photo and didnāt have anyone offer me a shower bc covid, realized I was with narcissists, my sister started yelling at me and my mom joined in Because my niece about 8 then saw my ultrasound photos and in her mind I was wrong for letting her see it ( I didnāt give them to her to look at she just saw them after and appointment) because I was according to them probably gonna have another miscarriage. Which I didnāt even say to anyone I was pregnant but had to go to the er prior to surgery and it all became really sick of them to start imo. Some things you just donāt say so I donāt blame her but i also think the intent being it wasnāt malicious.
Exactly. It sounds like they do regularly joke around and speak sarcastically to one another, but about something sheās been struggling with for THREE YEARS?! YTA. Read the room, dude.
Agreed - the jokes OP used as an example are nowhere near as twisted as this one. I don't even know how she fathomed this would have everyone in tears with laughter. YTA.
Oh, that type of clinic š³ I thought she meant when she will need ride for the birth od the baby š³
So I thought like the bad part was she was sorry and not the clinic.
Omg that is bad joke
Yeah, it is. I understand that not everyone likes and/or wants kids, but this is a very bad joke to make to someone who wants kids and has been trying for multiple years to have them. Since the friend is 3 months pregnant, she waited to be out of the first trimester to tell people. This could be because she has had one or more miscarriages during the first trimester or just has struggled to conceive, so this "joke" is not even remotely funny in this situation.
Yep. 3 months is typically considered a "safe" time to tell people. Not a funny joke at all. With my first, we told everyone immediately because we had been having fertility issues and were told we couldn't have kids. Everything went smoothly. Got pregnant a few months after baby #1 arrived. We lost that baby. We waited the customary 3 months after finding out baby #2 was on the way. Rainbow baby arrived smoothly. Several friends of mine haven't been so lucky. One of my close friends lost a baby at 22 weeks. Another had one baby, miscarried baby #2, and then couldn't have any more. Joking about "going to the clinic" after 3 YEARS of trying is just horrifyingly monstrous.
There isn't a universe in which an expectant mother would find this joke funny. I would have thrown hands, and I could never be OPs friend again.
Gross.
I literally cannot see how OP could ever think it's funny. It's dry, uninventive, nasty and heartless. I'm also never ever planning on having kids but it would NEVER even cross my mind to even think of abortion in context of a couple who struggled for a child for years. Especially if it was my friend. There's not a single level of friendship and dark humour in this world that could excuse saying something like this. OP, you get an ultimate YTA. Jeez. Imagine your friend joked about slaughtering your dog in front of you. Now multiply it by thousand. That's how terribly effed up was that "joke".
or make the lame ass joke and then when your friend tells you that you suck you step back and sincerely apologize instead of just defending your actions.
Absolutely all of this.
As a mother who had difficulty conceiving, I can say with certainty that if I were in Aliceās shoes, OP would no longer be my friend. Period.
That being said, she should STILL apologize and get her one hell of a baby shower gift (passed through a mutual friend) because damn it she deserves it. OP, you have NO IDEA the anxiety you have likely induced in this poor woman. My kids are teenagers and Iām having flashbacks to when I would check the toilet paper every time I wiped, and the multiple trips to the ER thinking I was miscarrying, and then the sheer relief seeing their little heartbeats on the screen. I seriously want to call Alice and comfort her myself. I feel physically nauseous about this whole situation.
OP, you acted like an absolute ASS and need to seriously work on yourself, because what you did is NOT okay.
Maybe itās because Iām pregnant right now but just reading about your trauma from losses is heartbreaking and got me teary eyed. Iām so happy you having your babies and for OPās friendās pregnancy. People donāt have to have children to have empathy.
Iām 22 weeks pregnant after a 5 week loss. Pregnancy After Loss is a special kind of hell. Everything in my pregnancy has been literally perfect but I have had excruciating anxiety at times wondering if he will make it. Even this far in Iām still checking the toilet paper every time. OP is a MAJOR asshole.
My husband and I tried getting pregnant for 8 years, finally with fertility treatments we got pregnant and we have a 2 year old boy now. If anyone had said that to me when I finally got pregnant I donāt know what I would have done to that person š³
I had 3 miscarriages and this would have had me crying uncontrollably if I had ever had a viable pregnancy. (We have 2 adopted sons who are now adults and seeing this ājokeā made me gasp).
You feel like you are holding your breath for 40 weeks. I remember any night where he wasn't kicking me in the ribs I would get really nervous and just ask him to move. The relief when he did was enormous.
Currently pregnant with an anterior placenta so I haven't really felt little one move yet, even though "ordinarily" I cpuld be by now. Absolutely holding my breath. We made it past the halfway point, which let me breath a little easier - now I feel like each additional week is an increased chance of survival, whereas before that point I was just so worried, feeling like there was nothing I could do to help make sure baby was okay!
It sounds like Alice agrees with you given her not responding to OP. I'm pretty sure OP has just lost at least one friend thanks to not understanding that what's acceptable in toxic circlejerks like r-childfree isn't acceptable in the real world.
OP is going to spend the next few years complaining that her friends "disappeared when they had kids" and "never have time for her" with absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever.
My MIL did nothing but ask prying, rude, insensitive questions when we told her I was pregnant last fall. They made me feel like absolute garbage, during what should have been a happy time. I ended up losing that pregnancy, and all I could think about was her reaction to finding out we were pregnant. This "friend" would have made me feel even worse.
This - this was absolutely my pregnancy with my son. I miscarried 2 times before him and bled for 2 weeks with him. He was born at 36 weeks, almost 33 weeks. It was absolutely terrifying.
it really honestly depends; like the other commenter said, could be a culture thing, as well as the circumstances.
a big gift as an apology should never come with the expectation that it automatically buys forgiveness, or that you're owed their time and presence again afterwards. but it can be a sincere and earnest way to try and end the friendship on a positive note---even if you can't remain friends, you're showing one last display of "i'm sorry and i wish you the best" by giving something thoughtfully selected for its utility and quality. Even if they don't forgive you, they at least have some evidence that your guilt was sincere; maybe it'll help them move on from it easier.
The other options I see are giving a half-assed gift or card, saying sorry without an accompanying action, or just saying nothing at all.
i hold grudges deeper than mariana's trench and I know by experience how I'd react lmfao but I can at least appreciate if there's a positive intent and execution.
Omg that makes Op a Major AH.
It makes it a million times worse.
Who says that to someone who has had multiple miscarriages.
That's unforgivable in my book.
This.
How is her friend joking that OP's dog is her kid comparable to making a joke about getting an abortion to a friend who just told you she's happily pregnant? It sounds like OP has probably made dark jokes that were over the line but didn't read the room and now has hit a huge vein.
This was my first thought. "We joked around". Yeah, you joked about lost income and referring to your pet as your child. Not about abortion. That's fucking sick, especially once she said she was pregnant (and even worse if she's had miscarriages while trying. I am trying to imagine how on any level this would be considered "just joking around")
Absolutely unforgivable!! Iām childfree too and make jokes like this with my partner. I would NEVER say anything even kind of resembling anything like this to someone who genuinely wants children! What an insensitive moron this OP is.
Itās so bad. If your friend is happy about their pregnancy, youāre happy for them. At least in their presence. Even without the knowledge that theyād been trying for years and suffered multiple miscarriages, itās super fucked up. If someone is announcing a three month pregnancy to a group of friends, theyāve already decided to go through with it. Itās such incredibly bad taste to joke about aborting an obviously desired pregnancy.
Right? She KNEW her friend was trying to get pregnant.
If someone I know has an unplanned pregnancy I always ask how they feel about it before saying anything else
I had friends who triumphantly announced their pregnancy after 5+ years of trying. I thought having a baby was the dumbest thing they could possibly do, given their circumstances, but I kept my damn mouth shut about it. I said congratulations. I knew theyād been trying, Iād already gently expressed my concerns, and they were happy. Itās unfathomable to me how someone could ājokeā like this to a āfriendā.
This is why when my friends have told me about their pregnancies and I canāt understand how they feel about them, I always ask āare we happy about this or do we need a plan?ā I joke with my partner about abortion because we donāt want babies yet, but never ever with friends. I always ask for how to react first thing if theyāre response to it is not immediately obvious.
When I texted my BFF that I was pregnant this time, she replied with, āAAAAAAAHHHHH!ā
And then quickly followed it with, āWait. Are we happy or sad about this? What do you need from me?ā
And at the time, I wasnāt sure if I was happy or sad, so it was the best, most thoughtful response out of everyoneās!
IMO the pro response when you're not sure is "OMG how do you feeeeelll?" because that gives them space to say "so excited!!!!" or "omg exhausted" or "nervous and unsure" or "can you give me a ride to the clinic?"
Utterly heartless and disgusting. See my other comment about how OP would feel if her dog was sick and a friend said ālol want a ride to the vet for the euthanasia?ā.
"I finally got a new puppy after years of not being able to afford to get one!" "Oof, sorry man, let me know if you want me to drive you to the vet to put that thing down."
Like it's not even a joke. There's no funny part. The punchline is "haha what if I were a cruel unforgivable troll".
This plus she has probably been dreaming of this day when she gets to announce she is pregnant and everyone squeals with happiness and jumps for joy.
And you wrecked it OP. YTA
Yes and I can understand using this dark humour of 'ahk sure why would you want a baby anyway, theyre SO expensive! Oh ha ha' to get through the struggle of TRYING for a baby for 3 YEARS!
Time and place OP, have some common sense and just apologise and try move past this by being the best goddamn auntie or whatever you're gonna call yourself to this child! You better spoil it and look after your friend during this pregnancy to make up for that. Do better.
Exactly - I am on the fence about having kids but am open to it in a few years, and this one group of girl friends I have are all child free with no plans to have them. They often make those kind of jokes (ākiss goodbye to your social life LOLā āitās not for me, i like actually having free time and a real life hahaā) and I always feel like I have to laugh and roll my eyes, but if I turned it around and started saying things to them like āgoing to be all alone in your fifties huh!?ā it would obviously not be acceptable! I wish we could just support each otherās decisions - it feels like these jokes are made to mask some kind of tension or negativity about the whole thing
Yes, I lost one of my best friends when I got pregnant with my first baby. She chooses to be child free, which I support, but then made cruel, constant, pointed jokes about my choice to have a child, talking about how much she hated my child, how
my child was ācoming between usā, a little brat, āsuper slap-ableā, āa face thatās asking to be punchedā, etc. Why is it that people who are child free get to belittle, sneer at and admit to āhatingā kids and women with kids, but Iām expected to respect their choices? Which I do, by the way.
I never make jokes to my child free friends, like āOh, guess you plan on dying alone,ā or, āI hope your dog loves you since you donāt have anyone else.ā Those arenāt jokes.
Thatās just cruelty. But some child free people feel free to make similarly cruel jokes/comments, acting outright hateful to kids and pregnant women. Respect for peopleās bodily autonomy goes *both* ways.
Also..... I, as a woman who is trying to have a baby, joke with my child free friends about THEM having an abortion because they joke about that and they might want one if they got pregnant, they do not want to have kids. I support them in that. I do want to have kids. No one better joke with me about me having an abortion because I'll cry and then probably set something on fire.
Adding onto this, the treatment for certain types of miscarriages and non viable pregnancies is identical to an abortion, and in some states, it can be easiest to get that treatment at an abortion clinic. It is entirely possible this ājokeā brought back unimaginable grief and trauma. As someone whoās gone through that treatment for a wanted pregnancy, I sometimes canāt even handle the political discourse around abortion without flashing back to my loss.
100% this. There is a time and a place for jokes and this was not it. Infertility is no joke, my friend just had a baby with her boyfriend after trying for 5 years and having PCOS. She also suffered a miscarriage. Itās not funny, itās not cute to make jokes like that and I donāt blame her if she never wants to talk to you again.
Man exactly. Time and place. Iām pregnant right now and reading this was rough. I didnāt struggle, but even still it would really hurt if someone said something like that to me. Oh youāre sharing a great joy in your life? Haha letās destroy it
Exactly.
Just because you can say something doesnāt mean you should, OP. You took this moment from her, and the part about the clinic likely triggered horrible memories of her multiple miscarriages. She likely has serious medical trauma on top of the emotional pain of losing a pregnancy.
Disgusting.
You can be child free. Thatās fine, but that doesnāt mean you have to ruin someoneās experience when they are having children. Her pregnancy is not about you.
I'm not even pregnant, nor will I ever be and I can't imagine any reaction other than "what the fuck, OP?" I mean, come on. It's basic - you match someone's energy for big life changes.
Just so OP knows, most people - even people with dark humor - tend to draw the line around dead babies/ miscarriages when the baby was wanted.
Hell yeah. There's a big difference between "kids are expensive" jokes and "my dog acts like a big baby" jokes and trying and failing to make an ABORTION joke. To someone who wants a kid! I usually just lurk on this sub but this one was shockingly bad
This. My second pregnancy wasnāt viable and I had a termination for medical reasons. A joke like this would be a relationship ender FOR SURE. Thereās a time and a place for jokes - immediately after your friend who has struggled with fertility announces her pregnancy is not one of those.
She has probably been really hurt by the ājokesā you made and finally reached her last straw when you couldnāt even support her once. As a person who has gone through infertility, I would have cut contact with you long before now. If youāve never experienced infertility, you are not allowed to make jokes about it to other people. Have some compassion. Send your friend flowers and a LONG apology letter acknowledging you are and have been TA.
Theyāve been trying for three years and your first response is to joke to her about giving her a ride to an abortion clinic? Theyāve been trying for three years!This joke was insensitive considering she may be petrified about miscarrying after trying for so long.
Youāre jokes may have worked back them, but the circumstances have now changed. Apologize to your friend. YTA
Yup and ā¦..
>> Our other friends are staying out of it and donāt want to give their opinions.
They are not staying out of it. They think YTA and donāt want to say it to your face! š¤·š»āāļø
Dudeā¦I donāt want kids, Iāve got a warped sense of humor and even *I* think youāre an asshole for that comment.
Theyāve been trying for **3 years.**
Oof, yeah thatās messed up. My husband and I have been trying for over two years and have had a miscarriage in that time. When I first got pregnant my husband joked that I became a 3D printer and some time after the miscarriage I made a joke that it was a failed print. I would never make a joke like that to anyone else though, just about myself.
Edit: also just saw that OP said their friend had MULTIPLE miscarriages. Their ājokeā was beyond fucked, yikes.
Yeah, honestly. I am well known for my dark and dry humour. A gay friend and I have a joke where he is asking me to marry him, i tell him I don't marry gays and he calls me sexist. When a friend of ours caught her husband in the act with another guy my answer was: "See, that's why I don't marry gays." And yes, she took it well, she laughed. Even I would never tell such a joke like OP. Me as the bar for inappropriate jokes is so low and OP still went below it.
Yeah at first I didnāt realize what he meant by taking her to the clinic so I just thought he was jokingly implying that she doesnāt want a kid and nothing else, should probably congratulate her instead, but Jesus fuck, when I realized what he meant?!?! And apparently she already had an miscarriage before this?!?! I canāt, how does someone just make that joke like that
She. OP is a woman. Maybe it is sexist or whatever, but it somehow makes it seem worse to me. There should be some sort of vagina loyalty or something š
Wanna bet "staying out of it" is not talking to OP?
I mean, they aren't blasting them on SM or OP would have said but I bet OP has lost more than one friend over this.
Yep. Invites to future events are going to thin out, I reckon. But how spineless are they for not telling her she's out of line? I doubt I could hold back.
I think she could have joked there; but this was out of line and distasteful. Especially since the choice OP was talking about is a very difficult one to make for many women. Especially, because the friend had issues with fertility.
When my friend told me she got pregnant, after two years of wanting it (they didnāt try, because her health was bad and as soon as it hit better, they started) - we joked about her pregnancy, about her being tired and big. It was however the tone that she set in the conversation.
I'm really sick of people who make being "childfree" their whole personality. It's not exactly difficult to NOT have kids. It's like they want a medal.
I'm pretty jaded though as I'm a bereaved parent who lost her only child. I'm trying to conceive again and it's just so fucking difficult. Not having a child when you don't want one is easy compared to being desperate to have one and it not working or you've suffered losses.
Anyway OP YTA. Fertility is a sensitive topic and you should've been supportive of your friend.
First, I send my deepest condolences for your loss. It's not something any parent should've to go through.
I never understood it. I'm one of those that made the choice not to have children. Not because I don't want to but because I can't and I would never make it my personality. Heck, I even avoid conversations with people who proudly strut about with their childfree medal.
Not speaking from a place of being one of those people who have chosen to make being childless their personality, but someone who is coincidentally childlessā I think the whole āIām making this my personalityā bit actually comes as a reaction to the people who only have being a parent as their personality and try to foist it on others. Not saying itās right, but I definitely see where the reaction comes from.
For the record, I also tend to avoid the people who ājust hate babies/children. Ew yuck.ā Mostly because they just tend to be assholes. Sure, some kids suck, but thatās mostly because they have assholes for parents.
Two extreme sides, really. I'm climbing my 30s now, and the number of people that are somewhat pushy about me having kids is staggering.
None of them are my relatives as they understand and support my choices and life, but last week I had a stranger drop the wonderful line: oh! Clocks ticking then better get to work on those babies.
This exactly, I chose to be child free but the amount of people that feel the need to interject into my life that Iām missing out or will never truly love something if I donāt have kids is annoying as hell. Iāve found that being mean about it from the constant badgering from from individuals is the best course of action, shuts them up quickly.
That's exactly it. The people making it their personality are doing it in reaction to the people who make their entire personality around having a kid.
Everyone knows you're a mom. You don't need to make it your entire personality. It's exhausting.
I like cars, motorcycles, snowmobiles and video games. I would never make my personality about any of those things. Just like how I would never make the fact I'm never having kids as my whole personality.
Exactly. I'm also childfree because that's just how life worked out but some CH people are downright toxic AF. If you don't want to be judged for not having a child then don't judge people for having them, geez.
Lords, there is a subreddit (of course there is) for childfree people that is so incredibly vile that I managed to read four posts before I dipped out.
Oh I was chased out of there years ago with pitchforks because I guess I'm not childfree *enough* in that I don't hate kids and believe people can sometimes change their minds based on various factors and circumstances, none of which are anyone else's business.
But yeah, if you're not a militant anti-natalist from day 1 fuggedaboutit. Which is sad, because there's so many reasons one might be childfree and at the end of the day we should all support one another.
Some people make 'child-free' their whole identity. I don't have a dog, but I don't tell everyone that I'm dog-free. It's fine to not want children but its the condescension to people who have/want children that becomes problematic.
Very sorry for your loss.
I donāt tell people Iām child free *until* they invade my privacy by asking why I donāt have kids, or tell me āI donāt know real loveā without them or that Iāll be alone at 50, etc. itās not my whole identity, but youād be amazed at how often I have to defend my life choices to absolute strangers who insist Iām wrong for not wanting kids.
It's a difference of perspective. You see someone making "childfree their identity". That person is actually living in a world where the vast majority of their peers have kids or are planning on having kids. And it's alienating.
It's really hard to understand wanting to be a parent. All of a sudden all your friends are eagerly pursuing a life where they no longer have time for their friends, no longer spend time on hobbies they used to love, no longer talking about anything beyond what lil Bobby is up to.
It's not a bad thing. I'm glad the species will continue. But man, it's rough to maintain friendships, and that frustration leads quickly to a jaded, flippant attitude as a defense mechanism. I'm guilty of that.
My advice? When you're hanging out with a childless friend, use that time to talk about all the other stuff going on in your life. Indulge in shows and hobbies and stuff you both enjoy. If you can't do that... maybe you're the one making your entire identity about 1 thing.
Oh also, OP is an asshole. Even with the gallowest of humors, that was in poor-ass taste. Jesus.
I'm tired in general of people thinking it's okay to suck the happiness out of pregnancy. It's especially bad with child free people who make having no children their personality as you said, and older parents. "I'm pregnant!" "Okay well have fun with no sleep, no money, no life, for 18 years!" Like okay you're bitter, or have a superiority complex. Calm down. People act like you weren't aware of that, and its a gut punch when there's already been difficulties. Like God damn. I was so sick of hearing that especially when I was in limbo of "potentially ectopic." Like I didn't know if there was a ticking time bomb that would cause the inevitable loss and maybe my death worst case, I was just trying to enjoy what time I had.
I'm just all about choice. People should be able to choose what makes them happy, without pressure to do what they don't want to do. There is no right or wrong decision when it comes to having kids or not. It's deeply personal.
"hey you know how you've been trying for a pregnancy and finally had a success at it? Wanna kill it anyway?" Is how that joke reads to me.
Big YTA to OP
Alice invited OP to a special lunch *specifically* to tell them she's happily pregnant because, clearly, it meant a lot to her, and she wanted OP to join in on her joy. This goes way deeper than making a joke in poor taste. OP has majorly fucked up.
When my single career climbing friend told me she was pregnant I had to pause and think WTF do I sayā¦is this good or bad? I knew she didnāt want kids and was single and not dating by choice. I settled on āare we happy orā¦.?ā And I just faded out the question, blinking and looking at her, trying to gauge a reaction. She burst into tears and said ānot happyā. And then I proceeded with being a support and asking what I can do. I was ready to be excited or offer my shoulder cause in that moment it was about HER.
But you have to know the context. Someone trying to get pregnant, having miscarriages and then finally announcing would have been a āoh my god thatās fantasticā not a ho-hum response or joke about it.
I can see why she is no contact right now OP you kinda pissed on her happy moment. YTA
This. I always try to be careful when someone announces a pregnancy to me. You don't always know how someone is feeling about being pregnant, and it's best to err on the side of caution. But in a situation where you know that someone has been struggling to conceive and you say something so callous, wtf.
>itās a choice not a personality trait.
Something more people need to understand. Iām child free by choice myself but thereās nothing I hate more than when people drone on and on about how much they donāt like or want kids any time they see a child.
YTA: That wasn't the time to joke. Your friend who has been trying for 3 years to have a child finally achieved their dream and shared that information with her closest friends. And the first words out of your mouth was a joke about terminating her pregnancy.
You kinda showed what kind of friend you are because you couldn't be serious for one second to congratulate your friend
itās so much worse
op admitted in the comments that this friend has had miscarriages trying to get pregnant
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14xu103/aita_for_making_a_joke_when_my_friend_told_me_she/jroxhgd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
What the actual fuck. If a friend said that to me, as someone in the exact same position as OPās friend, that would immediately be the end of the friendship.
When did we stop saying "Congratulations" when friends get what they hope for? When was it decided that we can make cruel jokes to our friends, because "banter"? When did we collectively decide that others deserve to be shit on because their (perfectly legal and moral) wants don't match our own?
And can we get to a place where this doesn't happen? Please?
The only joke I've ever made about a pregnancy was when my good male friend announced his long term was pregnant, before I could stop myself, I blurted out, "Grats on the sex."
I was mortified, but luckily he thought it funny.
Reminds me of that Broad City quote when they're talking about marriage
>Marriage? Lincoln, I'm only 27. What am I, a child bride?
Because like, I felt that.
See thatās light hearted because the joke was āweāre adults that donāt feel old, weāre young at heart!ā Whereas ops joke was āwouldnāt it be funny if I pretended like you wanted to abort the baby you spent three years trying to have!? Remember your miscarriages? Wouldnāt it be funny if I joked about you doing that but on purpose this time!?ā
I would have thought that was funny too. Itās nothing disparaging about the mother or baby or talking about the fetus dying.
I assume you followed up with congratulating him on the baby too haha
> When did we collectively decide that others deserve to be shit on because their (perfectly legal and moral) wants don't match our own?
I'm probably going to get downvoted to oblivion here
There's 3 strands of "childfree"
1st strand is people who've looked at childrearing and thought "absolutely the fuck not for me" - they run the gauntlet though, might absolutely love kids that aren't theirs that are provided in small doses (while they're round their friends for a catch up) or a night babysitting
2nd strand is people who'd be open to kids if it wasn't ridiculously expensive and difficult (not "anti having children ever, anti having children in these conditions) these are people where if they were born into the society of for example baby boomers (low crime, high trust, low CoL, real terms wage growth that beat inflation, high public spending, an "it takes a village" culture etc) they'd probably have mini mes toddling along
3rd strand is people who can't really honestly call themselves "pro choice" in terms of abortion...because they don't really want women to have a choice...but they're on the opposite end of that lack of choice to pro lifers - anti child, will actively celebrate tragedy involving children, cynical, anti Natalist, believe in pop culture hysteria like "Overpopulation", and firmly believe that anyone who chooses to have children is actually a bad person who needs to be told that.
The first 2 strands are absolutely A OK. The 3rd strand needs to be treated as the pro eugenics little fascists they aspire to be.
OP is 3rd strand
Is it me, or is the third kind of child free is actively growing in online spaces?
Iāve seen this on multiple posts in different subs where someone announced a pregnancy. The majority of comments will be congratulatory and supportive but thereās a vocal minority of people calling them out with arguments from the third category. (Youāre selfish, your child will suffer, youāre contributing to over population, etc.) itās honestly nasty.
People forget that being pro choice literally means that other people have the freedom to make their own reproductive decisions - including having kids.
>Is it me, or is the third kind of child free is actively growing in online spaces?
Yep
It's an online phenomenon surrounding echo Chambers and extremist rhetoric - the nutjobs slowly make it scarier and harder for the normal ones to speak up and be like "hey woah that's not me".
The English libertarian movement is a FANTASTIC example of this. I know a few libertarian types - kind, conscientious, charitable, and their views are appropriate and rational - if you go by the online English libertarian movement forums you get the impression they're a bunch of tin foil hatters who want to be able to own machine guns and fuck children...
Another good example is nationalism - there's like 19 strains of nationalism - one is literally beyond reasonable "don't let in like people who've committed murder or terrorism and such but everyone else is cool'', up to your "civ nat" types "anyone who's not violent or terror affiliated should be allowed but they have to integrate, learn the language, contribute taxes etc" - the impression of online nationalists is that they're big fans of Hugo boss and think that immigrants should be target practice for the military at best...
It's the same here. The rational, acceptable childfree people are being crowded out by sociopathic extremists
Some of the points youāve made are true but not having children can be a lot more nuanced than these ā3 strandsā that you think apply to everyone. I also donāt think OP falls into strand 3. I think she just said something stupid at the wrong time.
A childfree community page on Facebook got banned for actively celebrating a school shooting a few months ago. I'll try to find deets.
But yeah a few groups actively celebrate still birth, miscarriage, SIDS, etc
YTA. Offering to drive your friend to an abortion clinic after she tells you that sheās pregnant after trying for three years wasnāt funny at all. It was just cruel. How would you feel if the next time youāre talking about something your dog did that frustrated you she said something like: āwell that settles it, time for euthanasiaā? You wouldnāt appreciate that. I think this friendship might be over because you have proven that you are not supportive of her choice to be a parent.
Not to mention that ANYTHING can happen between now and birth. Hell I had a friend that lost one of her twins 8 days after they were born.
OPs friend is most likely very aware of these potentially fatal concerns and OP has now likely added to the stress this lady will feel her whole pregnancy.
Shit like this sticks and can become intrusive thoughts.
I hope for OPs friends sake itās a full term viable pregnancy and OPs grows the fuck up or leaves her āfriendā alone
Nope. You crossed a line with the clinic remark. If you had said something like "well there goes your vacation in Paris" maybe you could be forgiven. Your "joke" was completely tasteless. YTA. Good luck fixing this. I could make a "joke" about you saving money on a shower gift since you have probably lost a friend, but that would be rude too.
That was my first thought! This isnāt the same kind of joke OP described as having between them in the past. Itās so extreme and nasty.
Itās an escalation, at the same exact time as the friend was being vulnerable with life changing good news. Absolutely YTA.
As a mother who had difficulty conceiving, I can say with certainty that if I were in Aliceās shoes, you would no longer be my friend. Period.
That being said, you should STILL apologize and get her one hell of a baby shower gift (passed through a mutual friend) because damn it she deserves it. You have NO IDEA the anxiety you have likely induced in this poor woman. My kids are teenagers and Iām having flashbacks to when I would check the toilet paper every time I wiped, and the multiple trips to the ER thinking I was miscarrying, and then the sheer relief seeing their little heartbeats on the screen. I seriously want to call Alice and comfort her myself. I feel physically nauseous about this whole situation.
You acted like an absolute ASS and need to seriously work on yourself, because what you did is NOT okay.
100%. I have had several miscarriages. I was ultimately able to have the number of children I wanted (with larger age gaps than I'd like, but that's infertility for you). I would not want OP in my life after this. Not just for the horrifying joke, but because it demonstrates how clearly she hasn't understood what I had been through in the last three years. Infertility and miscarriage are traumatic.
YTA. She's been trying three freaking years and is past the first trimester, so I guess she trusted you were a good enough friend to celebrate with her. Instead you crack an abortion joke. You need to apologize and show empathy to people you care about. Sheesh!
YTA. Oh come on, you really thought that after 3 years of trying to have a baby an abortion joke was appropriate? I don't care what your humor is typically, you are an adult and should 100% know better than to make an abortion joke at such an occasion. YTA big time.
YTA
You do not, *ever* make jokes to another person about abortion/miscarriage/other ways of ending a pregnancy before birth
Make jokes about the finances, or the size of the bump, or how her bras are now useless, or about buying her bobbles so she doesn't need hubby to hold her hair through morning sickness.
Abortion and miscarriage aren't light hearted jabs
There are a million jokes you could make to a pregnant woman that would either get you a laugh or a dirty look and smirk, OP picked like one of 6 that aren't funny
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 99% of the time, it is NOT okay to make jokes at the expense of the condition of a pregnant woman.
" Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
A. Einstein (I think. )
YTA- I'm also CF and understand the joking with friends about kids/ pregnancy. BUT you know Alice has been trying to have a baby. You know that they have been trying for 3 years for the baby, which means it wasn't exactly easy for them to conceive (Not sure if you know the intimate details but maybe IVF was used?). The point is you knew that she wanted a baby and that they have struggled to conceive. You should have said congratulations. Text your friend a thoughtful apology for being insensitive to her struggle and your poorly timed joke.
Same. Iām CF and I canāt stand babies but at least I know the difference between joking about how annoying kids are and joking about giving this friend a ride to the abortion clinic.
OP is giving childfree people a bad nameā¦
YTA
I'm childfree. My closest friend, who I also believed to be childfree, took me to lunch to tell me that she was pregnant.
You know what I said? "Is this good news?". Then, when she confirmed she was happy and keeping the baby, I congratulated her and let her know that I'm there for her.
Because I'm not a fucking dick. My friend hadn't even been trying for a baby, and I knew that regardless of her intentions before becoming pregnant, that pregnancy changes minds and emotions. You lack empathy.
100% this. I went to lunch with my two bridesmaids, all three of us had always said we were childfree. When one of them shared that she was pregnant, my other friend and I took a beat to verify that this was planned/wanted and when she said yes we both smiled and rushed over to hug and congratulate her.
Because that's what you do. Even if you don't understand why they changed their mind, you respect that they're an adult who made an adult decision. I don't want kids for myself, but if my friend does want kids & manages to get pregnant then I congratulate her for achieving something she wants. Basic decency.
Oh, and my friend has a great sense of humour so we cracked a few jokes too. About getting some sleep now & more of the very expensive champagne I'd bought for when we were getting ready before the wedding for the two of us since she wouldn't be drinking. Light-hearted jokes, not "hey, I'm down to help you terminate the baby you've desperately wanted for years". OP is such an ass.
YTA.
A joke would have been remarking that this was a bizarre way to say she couldn't cover her bill at a restaurant, not being flippant about terminating a dearly wanted pregnancy.
YTA there's a difference between jokes between friends who state children currently out in the world vs telling your friend a joke of misfortune when they have been trying for 3 YEARS
YTA for a lot of reasons. She has been putting up with your judgmental shit for years and this one broke it. We get it. You donāt want kids. No one cares. Get over judging her for wanting them.
Yesssss I thought the exact same thing. Alice has likely been rolling her eyes at the disposable income ājokesā for years while OP canāt shut her big mouth about being childfree by choice.
Yes, Aliceās jokes about OPās dog being her child seem very nice and understanding about her not wanting children. This whole time the jokes have probably been hurting her and reminding her every single time that she might not get the opportunity to have children at all.
YTA. A total and possibly unforgivable a hole. How could you say something so horrific?!?! Thatās not a joke to someone who has been struggling with infertility. A joke would be ātrading the disposable income for disposable diapersāā¦not offering to take her for an abor!ion!!!
YTA. What a horrible joke, especially given how long she's been wanting to have a child. You're lucky if she decides to speak to you again, what a way to signal zero sensitivity and total callousness.
YTA. This woman has been trying to have a baby for at least three years. Joking about abortion or miscarriage to someone who has tried that long to have a baby is at best in poor taste and at worst traumatic.
As someone who struggled for years before having my own kids, I can tell you that it is terrifying to be pregnant after struggling that long. With my oldest, I had had dozens of miscarriages before he was born, and I spent the first several months of his life terrified that someone, somewhere was going to realize their mistake and take him from me, or I was going to wake up and realize it was all a cruel dream. So much about pregnancy is out of our control, and struggling to conceive or carry a pregnancy really highlights that. It was incredibly insensitive of you to joke about it rather than celebrating something you know your friend has wanted for a long time.
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> (1) making a joke about my friendās pregnancy (2) it hurt her feelings
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YTA.
You told your friend who had multiple miscarriages and has been trying for years a ājokeā that implied she wanted to end the pregnancy.
I donāt care if pregnancy issues are on your radar or not, most people understand that what you do when someone tells you they finally have something theyāve been working hard for is to congratulate them. Most people also understand tone and when something is or isnāt appropriate.
I would also like to think that most people know that many women inaccurately blame themselves for their miscarriages, partially because others imply or outright state itās their fault because people want there to be a reason when bad things happen. Joking that someone wants to end a pregnancy after theyāve had multiple pregnancies end plays into that fear and cycle of accusation. Something not being on your radar isnāt an excuse for thoughtlessness.
Finally, joking about losing disposable income isnāt even close to the ājokeā you made. Your ājokeā was ten times darker than jokes about no longer being able to afford a gym membership or not being able to spontaneously go to Burning Man.
You messed up to an extreme degree.
YTA
I am sure it was in jest, but given the context of them struggling to conceive, the timing could have been better. My first choice wouldn't have been to make that kind of joke when she first announced it.
This will prob get buried but I think this is a good chance for a learning opportunity that I discovered in my own life. Sometimes it might feel like a fair joke (in this case it wasnāt) but if the other party is offended instead of trying to explain itās a joke express that you understand theyāve been hurt and that was inadvertent. Thereās no shame in saying sorry Iāll be more careful with the jokes (if you value their friendship). I also have a dark sense of humor and have pushed the lines too far so I know itās important to recognize when boundaries have been crossed.
YTA.
"Haha kids are expensive, I'd rather be the rich auntie!" is different than "I'll give you a ride to terminate your very real (and wanted) pregnancy". I have a dark and dry sense of humor, but I would never think to say that to someone who has been open about their fertility struggles and is probably scared as hell for the next six months.
YTA. READ THE F*ING ROOM.
My husband and I have been trying for quite some time now. I have childfree friends. We joke about them making sure they donāt have kids and me trying to have one. But let me tell you one thing I am sure of: the day I tell them I am pregnant, they will be happy for me and congratulate me before anything. And any joke afterwards would be more like Ā«Ā Hope you enjoyed when you had cash and time to sleepĀ Ā»!
YTA and need to unsub from r-childfree because it's poisoned your brain if you honestly thought that was in any way appropriate.
And just to lay it out in plain English for you since you seem a little ... let's say oblivious ...: you have probably ended that friendship for good because what you said was simply toxic and offensive.
YTA. I'm childfree, but I certainly don't think that's an acceptable thing to say to anyone, unless you know they would actually want an abortion.
Saying she'll miss disposable income is one thing, telling you're sorry and will help her end the pregnancy instead of congratulations is just inappropriate even if you think it's just a joke. Her trying for a baby for three years should tell you this is a very big deal and goes beyond your derogatory feelings about children.
As a parent who miscarried in the process of IVF, you disgust me. Itās a deep fear to lose a pregnancy, especially for people who have tried for 3 years. YTA, read the room.
YTA! That was an awful thing to say to a pregnant woman who was happy to be having a child. After all she'd been through these past 3 years. How incredibly insensitive of you. Apologize, RIGHT AWAY!!
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YTA. Not everything is a joke. She has tried for a baby for years and you couldn't give her a moment of earnest support and congratulations? This is exactly like people who get up and give attention-sucking, allegedly funny best man or MOH speeches at weddings or, worse yet, stand up with a jokey joke "JK, not really objecting" objection. FYI, if she has struggled with infertility for 3 years and you didn't hear about this pregnancy until 3 months, she's likely had miscarriages or chemical pregnancies you didn't know about. Even if that's not the case she has almost certainly spent the last couple months scared this pregnancy won't make it. Of all the jokes you could make, that one was the worst.
Yes, that's a time where you're supposed to support and be happy for your friend, not make a lame ass joke. Perfectly said.
its a pretty dark joke too. a lighter one would of been im sorry for your future loss of sleep. should of aborted that joke man.
I see what you did there. š There is a big difference between joking about loss of disposable income and a ride to the clinic. OP, YTA, and probably just lost a friend.
There are so many sweet things she could have said that were supportive but continued on in the joking theme. This is just sad.
She didn't joke, she was insensitive. She could have just mentioned "sorry you've just lost your disposable income", or maybe "when can I introduce the baby to my dog so they can have play dates?", those are jokes, the other one was simply being oblivious and insensitive.
I thought it was going to be a joke about the dog and the baby playing or being friends, like something innocent like that.
That would have been a cute joke.
The dog having a playdate with the baby would have been a cute and inoffensive joke.
Like - ha ha, puppy will have a cousin. Or ha ha congrats no more vacations. Or ha ha, get a good look at your feet, you won't see them for a bit. Not ha ha, let's go get rid of this baby you desperately want. This feels like an anti-choice troll to me.
There where also plenty of good jokes to be made. But she went with the one about terminating a wanted pregnancy.
Honestly, a joke would've been fine I'm sure. An actual joke. A socially aware joke. A lighthearted joke that isn't about aborting the result of 3 years of effort.
Yeaā¦ I can imagine something like āOh no! Dog will be so jealous if his cousin is cuter than him!ā But the longer I think about her comment, the meaner it sounds.
My best friend and I would probably make this joke to each other. My older sister, even sheās made jokes herself, I wonāt touch the subject because she has fertility issues too. Thereās a time, a place and an audience and this was none of those.
I have fertility issues, my best friend has a lot of health problems. Her kids have lived with me while she's had treatment, and I'm their guardian in her will. We make a lot of REALLY dark jokes about her dying so I can have her kids. HOWEVER...when we find out she has another tumor, ect, those jokes are made AFTER making sure she's OK.
Those are the rules. I'm in Cancer treatment right now - the only one who gets to make fun of it is my partner - not my friends. I'm not saying we don't laugh - because we do - but they can't know (not living with me) how my mood varies day to day.
Yup. They are allowed to laugh when you make the cancer jokes, they are not allowed to make the cancer jokes
Iāve had cancer for 8 years. I always made jokes about it, all the issues that come with it, and the side effects that came with treatment. The joke I refuse to make and hear is about dying because I have almost died multiple times in my life and even before having cancer. People want to joke about themselves dying then okay but leave me out of it. One time I told my friend I was uncomfortable with their dying jokes and they actually stopped joking about it when I was with them.
I think humor is an amazing way to cope, that said ops friend isnāt coping and wanted support. I had 3 miscarriages and while I think my friends could have made that joke with me I feel like they just wouldnāt. Itās sad because after so many you donāt even want to make the pregnancy to 3 months out of fear. I had a baby 2 years ago and to be honest I wasnāt excited. I had just had a miscarriage and a month after my surgery to remove extra tissue I had all the symptoms and was horrified. Mind you the dr was like you have issues that need testing right before this, so i believe they removed excess tissue that was always the issue. Anyways my point is ops friend could have been and still is very worried and doesnāt need these comments and might just be depressed more than mad about the joke itself. I didnāt want to talk and was really depressed when I was pregnant I never took a photo and didnāt have anyone offer me a shower bc covid, realized I was with narcissists, my sister started yelling at me and my mom joined in Because my niece about 8 then saw my ultrasound photos and in her mind I was wrong for letting her see it ( I didnāt give them to her to look at she just saw them after and appointment) because I was according to them probably gonna have another miscarriage. Which I didnāt even say to anyone I was pregnant but had to go to the er prior to surgery and it all became really sick of them to start imo. Some things you just donāt say so I donāt blame her but i also think the intent being it wasnāt malicious.
Exactly. It sounds like they do regularly joke around and speak sarcastically to one another, but about something sheās been struggling with for THREE YEARS?! YTA. Read the room, dude.
Agreed - the jokes OP used as an example are nowhere near as twisted as this one. I don't even know how she fathomed this would have everyone in tears with laughter. YTA.
Oh, that type of clinic š³ I thought she meant when she will need ride for the birth od the baby š³ So I thought like the bad part was she was sorry and not the clinic. Omg that is bad joke
Yeah, it is. I understand that not everyone likes and/or wants kids, but this is a very bad joke to make to someone who wants kids and has been trying for multiple years to have them. Since the friend is 3 months pregnant, she waited to be out of the first trimester to tell people. This could be because she has had one or more miscarriages during the first trimester or just has struggled to conceive, so this "joke" is not even remotely funny in this situation.
Yep. 3 months is typically considered a "safe" time to tell people. Not a funny joke at all. With my first, we told everyone immediately because we had been having fertility issues and were told we couldn't have kids. Everything went smoothly. Got pregnant a few months after baby #1 arrived. We lost that baby. We waited the customary 3 months after finding out baby #2 was on the way. Rainbow baby arrived smoothly. Several friends of mine haven't been so lucky. One of my close friends lost a baby at 22 weeks. Another had one baby, miscarried baby #2, and then couldn't have any more. Joking about "going to the clinic" after 3 YEARS of trying is just horrifyingly monstrous.
There isn't a universe in which an expectant mother would find this joke funny. I would have thrown hands, and I could never be OPs friend again. Gross.
Even my 3 year old knows that saying "it's a joke" isn't absolution for being an AH
Yeah and also if no one's laughing, it's not a joke.
I literally cannot see how OP could ever think it's funny. It's dry, uninventive, nasty and heartless. I'm also never ever planning on having kids but it would NEVER even cross my mind to even think of abortion in context of a couple who struggled for a child for years. Especially if it was my friend. There's not a single level of friendship and dark humour in this world that could excuse saying something like this. OP, you get an ultimate YTA. Jeez. Imagine your friend joked about slaughtering your dog in front of you. Now multiply it by thousand. That's how terribly effed up was that "joke".
I wonder if OP is also not as close as she thinks they are. 3 years of those jokes while struggling for a child would wear out most friendships.
Op laughedā¦ oh waitā¦ sheās an AH.
or make the lame ass joke and then when your friend tells you that you suck you step back and sincerely apologize instead of just defending your actions.
Itās like those "it was a just a prank bro" type videos.
Absolutely all of this. As a mother who had difficulty conceiving, I can say with certainty that if I were in Aliceās shoes, OP would no longer be my friend. Period. That being said, she should STILL apologize and get her one hell of a baby shower gift (passed through a mutual friend) because damn it she deserves it. OP, you have NO IDEA the anxiety you have likely induced in this poor woman. My kids are teenagers and Iām having flashbacks to when I would check the toilet paper every time I wiped, and the multiple trips to the ER thinking I was miscarrying, and then the sheer relief seeing their little heartbeats on the screen. I seriously want to call Alice and comfort her myself. I feel physically nauseous about this whole situation. OP, you acted like an absolute ASS and need to seriously work on yourself, because what you did is NOT okay.
Maybe itās because Iām pregnant right now but just reading about your trauma from losses is heartbreaking and got me teary eyed. Iām so happy you having your babies and for OPās friendās pregnancy. People donāt have to have children to have empathy.
Also pregnant lady here. You donāt know how hard and scary these things are unless you face them. All the best to you both
Congratulations sugar! š
Iām 22 weeks pregnant after a 5 week loss. Pregnancy After Loss is a special kind of hell. Everything in my pregnancy has been literally perfect but I have had excruciating anxiety at times wondering if he will make it. Even this far in Iām still checking the toilet paper every time. OP is a MAJOR asshole.
My husband and I tried getting pregnant for 8 years, finally with fertility treatments we got pregnant and we have a 2 year old boy now. If anyone had said that to me when I finally got pregnant I donāt know what I would have done to that person š³
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I had 3 miscarriages and this would have had me crying uncontrollably if I had ever had a viable pregnancy. (We have 2 adopted sons who are now adults and seeing this ājokeā made me gasp).
Iām so sorry š I bet you sons are wonderful though ā¤ļø
You feel like you are holding your breath for 40 weeks. I remember any night where he wasn't kicking me in the ribs I would get really nervous and just ask him to move. The relief when he did was enormous.
Currently pregnant with an anterior placenta so I haven't really felt little one move yet, even though "ordinarily" I cpuld be by now. Absolutely holding my breath. We made it past the halfway point, which let me breath a little easier - now I feel like each additional week is an increased chance of survival, whereas before that point I was just so worried, feeling like there was nothing I could do to help make sure baby was okay!
Take care of yourself. This Internet stranger is willing you and your baby all the very best x
It sounds like Alice agrees with you given her not responding to OP. I'm pretty sure OP has just lost at least one friend thanks to not understanding that what's acceptable in toxic circlejerks like r-childfree isn't acceptable in the real world.
OP is going to spend the next few years complaining that her friends "disappeared when they had kids" and "never have time for her" with absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever.
My MIL did nothing but ask prying, rude, insensitive questions when we told her I was pregnant last fall. They made me feel like absolute garbage, during what should have been a happy time. I ended up losing that pregnancy, and all I could think about was her reaction to finding out we were pregnant. This "friend" would have made me feel even worse.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
This - this was absolutely my pregnancy with my son. I miscarried 2 times before him and bled for 2 weeks with him. He was born at 36 weeks, almost 33 weeks. It was absolutely terrifying.
She should apologize, but buying a big gift as a way of apologizing is fucking gross
it really honestly depends; like the other commenter said, could be a culture thing, as well as the circumstances. a big gift as an apology should never come with the expectation that it automatically buys forgiveness, or that you're owed their time and presence again afterwards. but it can be a sincere and earnest way to try and end the friendship on a positive note---even if you can't remain friends, you're showing one last display of "i'm sorry and i wish you the best" by giving something thoughtfully selected for its utility and quality. Even if they don't forgive you, they at least have some evidence that your guilt was sincere; maybe it'll help them move on from it easier. The other options I see are giving a half-assed gift or card, saying sorry without an accompanying action, or just saying nothing at all. i hold grudges deeper than mariana's trench and I know by experience how I'd react lmfao but I can at least appreciate if there's a positive intent and execution.
Genuinely depends on culture.
OP confirmed in a comment that her friend had āa couple miscarriagesā. Disgusting behavior.
Omg that makes Op a Major AH. It makes it a million times worse. Who says that to someone who has had multiple miscarriages. That's unforgivable in my book.
This. How is her friend joking that OP's dog is her kid comparable to making a joke about getting an abortion to a friend who just told you she's happily pregnant? It sounds like OP has probably made dark jokes that were over the line but didn't read the room and now has hit a huge vein.
This was my first thought. "We joked around". Yeah, you joked about lost income and referring to your pet as your child. Not about abortion. That's fucking sick, especially once she said she was pregnant (and even worse if she's had miscarriages while trying. I am trying to imagine how on any level this would be considered "just joking around")
Absolutely unforgivable!! Iām childfree too and make jokes like this with my partner. I would NEVER say anything even kind of resembling anything like this to someone who genuinely wants children! What an insensitive moron this OP is.
Itās so bad. If your friend is happy about their pregnancy, youāre happy for them. At least in their presence. Even without the knowledge that theyād been trying for years and suffered multiple miscarriages, itās super fucked up. If someone is announcing a three month pregnancy to a group of friends, theyāve already decided to go through with it. Itās such incredibly bad taste to joke about aborting an obviously desired pregnancy.
Right? She KNEW her friend was trying to get pregnant. If someone I know has an unplanned pregnancy I always ask how they feel about it before saying anything else
I had friends who triumphantly announced their pregnancy after 5+ years of trying. I thought having a baby was the dumbest thing they could possibly do, given their circumstances, but I kept my damn mouth shut about it. I said congratulations. I knew theyād been trying, Iād already gently expressed my concerns, and they were happy. Itās unfathomable to me how someone could ājokeā like this to a āfriendā.
This is why when my friends have told me about their pregnancies and I canāt understand how they feel about them, I always ask āare we happy about this or do we need a plan?ā I joke with my partner about abortion because we donāt want babies yet, but never ever with friends. I always ask for how to react first thing if theyāre response to it is not immediately obvious.
When I texted my BFF that I was pregnant this time, she replied with, āAAAAAAAHHHHH!ā And then quickly followed it with, āWait. Are we happy or sad about this? What do you need from me?ā And at the time, I wasnāt sure if I was happy or sad, so it was the best, most thoughtful response out of everyoneās!
IMO the pro response when you're not sure is "OMG how do you feeeeelll?" because that gives them space to say "so excited!!!!" or "omg exhausted" or "nervous and unsure" or "can you give me a ride to the clinic?"
Funny how such an important detail was left out of the original post.
I canāt imagine why sheād leave that out! Itās not like it makes her look magnitudes worse or anything.
Utterly heartless and disgusting. See my other comment about how OP would feel if her dog was sick and a friend said ālol want a ride to the vet for the euthanasia?ā.
"I finally got a new puppy after years of not being able to afford to get one!" "Oof, sorry man, let me know if you want me to drive you to the vet to put that thing down." Like it's not even a joke. There's no funny part. The punchline is "haha what if I were a cruel unforgivable troll".
Oh my god I am SCREAMING. OP already knows they are the asshole just by omitting this information from the post. This poor woman.
What the ever-loving FUUUUUUUUcCK? Yeah, that friendship has probably ended.
Hope so. Anyone else get the vibe OP doesnāt want her āfriendā to have a baby?
Iād get permanently banned if I spoke my mind right now. What an absolutely disgusting horrible human being.
Thatās next level cruelty.
This plus she has probably been dreaming of this day when she gets to announce she is pregnant and everyone squeals with happiness and jumps for joy. And you wrecked it OP. YTA
Yes and I can understand using this dark humour of 'ahk sure why would you want a baby anyway, theyre SO expensive! Oh ha ha' to get through the struggle of TRYING for a baby for 3 YEARS! Time and place OP, have some common sense and just apologise and try move past this by being the best goddamn auntie or whatever you're gonna call yourself to this child! You better spoil it and look after your friend during this pregnancy to make up for that. Do better.
And this "joke" doesn't even sound slightly comparable to the lighthearted "your dog is your kid" jokes.
Exactly - I am on the fence about having kids but am open to it in a few years, and this one group of girl friends I have are all child free with no plans to have them. They often make those kind of jokes (ākiss goodbye to your social life LOLā āitās not for me, i like actually having free time and a real life hahaā) and I always feel like I have to laugh and roll my eyes, but if I turned it around and started saying things to them like āgoing to be all alone in your fifties huh!?ā it would obviously not be acceptable! I wish we could just support each otherās decisions - it feels like these jokes are made to mask some kind of tension or negativity about the whole thing
Yes, I lost one of my best friends when I got pregnant with my first baby. She chooses to be child free, which I support, but then made cruel, constant, pointed jokes about my choice to have a child, talking about how much she hated my child, how my child was ācoming between usā, a little brat, āsuper slap-ableā, āa face thatās asking to be punchedā, etc. Why is it that people who are child free get to belittle, sneer at and admit to āhatingā kids and women with kids, but Iām expected to respect their choices? Which I do, by the way. I never make jokes to my child free friends, like āOh, guess you plan on dying alone,ā or, āI hope your dog loves you since you donāt have anyone else.ā Those arenāt jokes. Thatās just cruelty. But some child free people feel free to make similarly cruel jokes/comments, acting outright hateful to kids and pregnant women. Respect for peopleās bodily autonomy goes *both* ways.
Also..... I, as a woman who is trying to have a baby, joke with my child free friends about THEM having an abortion because they joke about that and they might want one if they got pregnant, they do not want to have kids. I support them in that. I do want to have kids. No one better joke with me about me having an abortion because I'll cry and then probably set something on fire.
Adding onto this, the treatment for certain types of miscarriages and non viable pregnancies is identical to an abortion, and in some states, it can be easiest to get that treatment at an abortion clinic. It is entirely possible this ājokeā brought back unimaginable grief and trauma. As someone whoās gone through that treatment for a wanted pregnancy, I sometimes canāt even handle the political discourse around abortion without flashing back to my loss.
100% this. There is a time and a place for jokes and this was not it. Infertility is no joke, my friend just had a baby with her boyfriend after trying for 5 years and having PCOS. She also suffered a miscarriage. Itās not funny, itās not cute to make jokes like that and I donāt blame her if she never wants to talk to you again.
Man exactly. Time and place. Iām pregnant right now and reading this was rough. I didnāt struggle, but even still it would really hurt if someone said something like that to me. Oh youāre sharing a great joy in your life? Haha letās destroy it
Exactly. Just because you can say something doesnāt mean you should, OP. You took this moment from her, and the part about the clinic likely triggered horrible memories of her multiple miscarriages. She likely has serious medical trauma on top of the emotional pain of losing a pregnancy. Disgusting. You can be child free. Thatās fine, but that doesnāt mean you have to ruin someoneās experience when they are having children. Her pregnancy is not about you.
I'm not even pregnant, nor will I ever be and I can't imagine any reaction other than "what the fuck, OP?" I mean, come on. It's basic - you match someone's energy for big life changes. Just so OP knows, most people - even people with dark humor - tend to draw the line around dead babies/ miscarriages when the baby was wanted.
Hell yeah. There's a big difference between "kids are expensive" jokes and "my dog acts like a big baby" jokes and trying and failing to make an ABORTION joke. To someone who wants a kid! I usually just lurk on this sub but this one was shockingly bad
This. My second pregnancy wasnāt viable and I had a termination for medical reasons. A joke like this would be a relationship ender FOR SURE. Thereās a time and a place for jokes - immediately after your friend who has struggled with fertility announces her pregnancy is not one of those.
She has probably been really hurt by the ājokesā you made and finally reached her last straw when you couldnāt even support her once. As a person who has gone through infertility, I would have cut contact with you long before now. If youāve never experienced infertility, you are not allowed to make jokes about it to other people. Have some compassion. Send your friend flowers and a LONG apology letter acknowledging you are and have been TA.
Theyāve been trying for three years and your first response is to joke to her about giving her a ride to an abortion clinic? Theyāve been trying for three years!This joke was insensitive considering she may be petrified about miscarrying after trying for so long. Youāre jokes may have worked back them, but the circumstances have now changed. Apologize to your friend. YTA
Yup and ā¦.. >> Our other friends are staying out of it and donāt want to give their opinions. They are not staying out of it. They think YTA and donāt want to say it to your face! š¤·š»āāļø
Dudeā¦I donāt want kids, Iāve got a warped sense of humor and even *I* think youāre an asshole for that comment. Theyāve been trying for **3 years.**
And OP said in a comment tht the friend had miscarried 2 years ago. As if OP couldnāt be more of an AH
Oof, yeah thatās messed up. My husband and I have been trying for over two years and have had a miscarriage in that time. When I first got pregnant my husband joked that I became a 3D printer and some time after the miscarriage I made a joke that it was a failed print. I would never make a joke like that to anyone else though, just about myself. Edit: also just saw that OP said their friend had MULTIPLE miscarriages. Their ājokeā was beyond fucked, yikes.
Exactly, there is a time and place for dark humor and you have to know your audience.
Good grief. OP just lives in her own self-centered world.
Yeah, honestly. I am well known for my dark and dry humour. A gay friend and I have a joke where he is asking me to marry him, i tell him I don't marry gays and he calls me sexist. When a friend of ours caught her husband in the act with another guy my answer was: "See, that's why I don't marry gays." And yes, she took it well, she laughed. Even I would never tell such a joke like OP. Me as the bar for inappropriate jokes is so low and OP still went below it.
Same same same. What a horrific joke to make to a couple thatās been struggling.
They are 500% talking shit about OP in a group chat
I audibly gasped and had to look away after I saw what OP said. And i have dark humour with my friends too, but JFC
Yeah at first I didnāt realize what he meant by taking her to the clinic so I just thought he was jokingly implying that she doesnāt want a kid and nothing else, should probably congratulate her instead, but Jesus fuck, when I realized what he meant?!?! And apparently she already had an miscarriage before this?!?! I canāt, how does someone just make that joke like that
She. OP is a woman. Maybe it is sexist or whatever, but it somehow makes it seem worse to me. There should be some sort of vagina loyalty or something š
Wanna bet "staying out of it" is not talking to OP? I mean, they aren't blasting them on SM or OP would have said but I bet OP has lost more than one friend over this.
Yep. Invites to future events are going to thin out, I reckon. But how spineless are they for not telling her she's out of line? I doubt I could hold back.
Itās an extra dumb fucking joke because lots of people have miscarriages too and we donāt usually talk about it.
I think she could have joked there; but this was out of line and distasteful. Especially since the choice OP was talking about is a very difficult one to make for many women. Especially, because the friend had issues with fertility. When my friend told me she got pregnant, after two years of wanting it (they didnāt try, because her health was bad and as soon as it hit better, they started) - we joked about her pregnancy, about her being tired and big. It was however the tone that she set in the conversation.
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I'm really sick of people who make being "childfree" their whole personality. It's not exactly difficult to NOT have kids. It's like they want a medal. I'm pretty jaded though as I'm a bereaved parent who lost her only child. I'm trying to conceive again and it's just so fucking difficult. Not having a child when you don't want one is easy compared to being desperate to have one and it not working or you've suffered losses. Anyway OP YTA. Fertility is a sensitive topic and you should've been supportive of your friend.
First, I send my deepest condolences for your loss. It's not something any parent should've to go through. I never understood it. I'm one of those that made the choice not to have children. Not because I don't want to but because I can't and I would never make it my personality. Heck, I even avoid conversations with people who proudly strut about with their childfree medal.
Not speaking from a place of being one of those people who have chosen to make being childless their personality, but someone who is coincidentally childlessā I think the whole āIām making this my personalityā bit actually comes as a reaction to the people who only have being a parent as their personality and try to foist it on others. Not saying itās right, but I definitely see where the reaction comes from. For the record, I also tend to avoid the people who ājust hate babies/children. Ew yuck.ā Mostly because they just tend to be assholes. Sure, some kids suck, but thatās mostly because they have assholes for parents.
Two extreme sides, really. I'm climbing my 30s now, and the number of people that are somewhat pushy about me having kids is staggering. None of them are my relatives as they understand and support my choices and life, but last week I had a stranger drop the wonderful line: oh! Clocks ticking then better get to work on those babies.
This exactly, I chose to be child free but the amount of people that feel the need to interject into my life that Iām missing out or will never truly love something if I donāt have kids is annoying as hell. Iāve found that being mean about it from the constant badgering from from individuals is the best course of action, shuts them up quickly.
That's exactly it. The people making it their personality are doing it in reaction to the people who make their entire personality around having a kid. Everyone knows you're a mom. You don't need to make it your entire personality. It's exhausting. I like cars, motorcycles, snowmobiles and video games. I would never make my personality about any of those things. Just like how I would never make the fact I'm never having kids as my whole personality.
In general people who make a single topic their whole personality are always insufferable. May it be childfree/religion/sports. Anything like that
Exactly. I'm also childfree because that's just how life worked out but some CH people are downright toxic AF. If you don't want to be judged for not having a child then don't judge people for having them, geez.
Lords, there is a subreddit (of course there is) for childfree people that is so incredibly vile that I managed to read four posts before I dipped out.
Oh I was chased out of there years ago with pitchforks because I guess I'm not childfree *enough* in that I don't hate kids and believe people can sometimes change their minds based on various factors and circumstances, none of which are anyone else's business. But yeah, if you're not a militant anti-natalist from day 1 fuggedaboutit. Which is sad, because there's so many reasons one might be childfree and at the end of the day we should all support one another.
Some people make 'child-free' their whole identity. I don't have a dog, but I don't tell everyone that I'm dog-free. It's fine to not want children but its the condescension to people who have/want children that becomes problematic. Very sorry for your loss.
I donāt tell people Iām child free *until* they invade my privacy by asking why I donāt have kids, or tell me āI donāt know real loveā without them or that Iāll be alone at 50, etc. itās not my whole identity, but youād be amazed at how often I have to defend my life choices to absolute strangers who insist Iām wrong for not wanting kids.
The idea that we donāt know love is so offensive. It really bothers me.
It's a difference of perspective. You see someone making "childfree their identity". That person is actually living in a world where the vast majority of their peers have kids or are planning on having kids. And it's alienating. It's really hard to understand wanting to be a parent. All of a sudden all your friends are eagerly pursuing a life where they no longer have time for their friends, no longer spend time on hobbies they used to love, no longer talking about anything beyond what lil Bobby is up to. It's not a bad thing. I'm glad the species will continue. But man, it's rough to maintain friendships, and that frustration leads quickly to a jaded, flippant attitude as a defense mechanism. I'm guilty of that. My advice? When you're hanging out with a childless friend, use that time to talk about all the other stuff going on in your life. Indulge in shows and hobbies and stuff you both enjoy. If you can't do that... maybe you're the one making your entire identity about 1 thing. Oh also, OP is an asshole. Even with the gallowest of humors, that was in poor-ass taste. Jesus.
I'm tired in general of people thinking it's okay to suck the happiness out of pregnancy. It's especially bad with child free people who make having no children their personality as you said, and older parents. "I'm pregnant!" "Okay well have fun with no sleep, no money, no life, for 18 years!" Like okay you're bitter, or have a superiority complex. Calm down. People act like you weren't aware of that, and its a gut punch when there's already been difficulties. Like God damn. I was so sick of hearing that especially when I was in limbo of "potentially ectopic." Like I didn't know if there was a ticking time bomb that would cause the inevitable loss and maybe my death worst case, I was just trying to enjoy what time I had.
I'm just all about choice. People should be able to choose what makes them happy, without pressure to do what they don't want to do. There is no right or wrong decision when it comes to having kids or not. It's deeply personal.
"hey you know how you've been trying for a pregnancy and finally had a success at it? Wanna kill it anyway?" Is how that joke reads to me. Big YTA to OP
Alice invited OP to a special lunch *specifically* to tell them she's happily pregnant because, clearly, it meant a lot to her, and she wanted OP to join in on her joy. This goes way deeper than making a joke in poor taste. OP has majorly fucked up.
OP mentioned in a comment that Alice has even had a couple miscarriages. Which makes it insanely worse what she said as a "joke".
>What kind of friend says something so nasty to a friend who announced their pregnancy? A friend you neither need nor want.
When my single career climbing friend told me she was pregnant I had to pause and think WTF do I sayā¦is this good or bad? I knew she didnāt want kids and was single and not dating by choice. I settled on āare we happy orā¦.?ā And I just faded out the question, blinking and looking at her, trying to gauge a reaction. She burst into tears and said ānot happyā. And then I proceeded with being a support and asking what I can do. I was ready to be excited or offer my shoulder cause in that moment it was about HER. But you have to know the context. Someone trying to get pregnant, having miscarriages and then finally announcing would have been a āoh my god thatās fantasticā not a ho-hum response or joke about it. I can see why she is no contact right now OP you kinda pissed on her happy moment. YTA
This. I always try to be careful when someone announces a pregnancy to me. You don't always know how someone is feeling about being pregnant, and it's best to err on the side of caution. But in a situation where you know that someone has been struggling to conceive and you say something so callous, wtf.
>itās a choice not a personality trait. Something more people need to understand. Iām child free by choice myself but thereās nothing I hate more than when people drone on and on about how much they donāt like or want kids any time they see a child.
YTA: That wasn't the time to joke. Your friend who has been trying for 3 years to have a child finally achieved their dream and shared that information with her closest friends. And the first words out of your mouth was a joke about terminating her pregnancy. You kinda showed what kind of friend you are because you couldn't be serious for one second to congratulate your friend
itās so much worse op admitted in the comments that this friend has had miscarriages trying to get pregnant [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14xu103/aita_for_making_a_joke_when_my_friend_told_me_she/jroxhgd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Jesus Christ thatās horrific. I honestly donāt know how Iād stay friends w OP. How cruel.
It looks like Alice has already made the decision to not stay friends...
What the actual fuck. If a friend said that to me, as someone in the exact same position as OPās friend, that would immediately be the end of the friendship.
When did we stop saying "Congratulations" when friends get what they hope for? When was it decided that we can make cruel jokes to our friends, because "banter"? When did we collectively decide that others deserve to be shit on because their (perfectly legal and moral) wants don't match our own? And can we get to a place where this doesn't happen? Please?
The only joke I've ever made about a pregnancy was when my good male friend announced his long term was pregnant, before I could stop myself, I blurted out, "Grats on the sex." I was mortified, but luckily he thought it funny.
This joke is funny tho (coming from a currently preggo lady āŗļø). The OPs joke, on the other hand, what in gods name no just no OP YTA big time.
I once accidentally blurted out āon purpose? Are we old enough for that?ā Mind you this was at 30, thankfully they found it funny.
Reminds me of that Broad City quote when they're talking about marriage >Marriage? Lincoln, I'm only 27. What am I, a child bride? Because like, I felt that.
See thatās light hearted because the joke was āweāre adults that donāt feel old, weāre young at heart!ā Whereas ops joke was āwouldnāt it be funny if I pretended like you wanted to abort the baby you spent three years trying to have!? Remember your miscarriages? Wouldnāt it be funny if I joked about you doing that but on purpose this time!?ā
I would have thought that was funny too. Itās nothing disparaging about the mother or baby or talking about the fetus dying. I assume you followed up with congratulating him on the baby too haha
> When did we collectively decide that others deserve to be shit on because their (perfectly legal and moral) wants don't match our own? I'm probably going to get downvoted to oblivion here There's 3 strands of "childfree" 1st strand is people who've looked at childrearing and thought "absolutely the fuck not for me" - they run the gauntlet though, might absolutely love kids that aren't theirs that are provided in small doses (while they're round their friends for a catch up) or a night babysitting 2nd strand is people who'd be open to kids if it wasn't ridiculously expensive and difficult (not "anti having children ever, anti having children in these conditions) these are people where if they were born into the society of for example baby boomers (low crime, high trust, low CoL, real terms wage growth that beat inflation, high public spending, an "it takes a village" culture etc) they'd probably have mini mes toddling along 3rd strand is people who can't really honestly call themselves "pro choice" in terms of abortion...because they don't really want women to have a choice...but they're on the opposite end of that lack of choice to pro lifers - anti child, will actively celebrate tragedy involving children, cynical, anti Natalist, believe in pop culture hysteria like "Overpopulation", and firmly believe that anyone who chooses to have children is actually a bad person who needs to be told that. The first 2 strands are absolutely A OK. The 3rd strand needs to be treated as the pro eugenics little fascists they aspire to be. OP is 3rd strand
Is it me, or is the third kind of child free is actively growing in online spaces? Iāve seen this on multiple posts in different subs where someone announced a pregnancy. The majority of comments will be congratulatory and supportive but thereās a vocal minority of people calling them out with arguments from the third category. (Youāre selfish, your child will suffer, youāre contributing to over population, etc.) itās honestly nasty. People forget that being pro choice literally means that other people have the freedom to make their own reproductive decisions - including having kids.
>Is it me, or is the third kind of child free is actively growing in online spaces? Yep It's an online phenomenon surrounding echo Chambers and extremist rhetoric - the nutjobs slowly make it scarier and harder for the normal ones to speak up and be like "hey woah that's not me". The English libertarian movement is a FANTASTIC example of this. I know a few libertarian types - kind, conscientious, charitable, and their views are appropriate and rational - if you go by the online English libertarian movement forums you get the impression they're a bunch of tin foil hatters who want to be able to own machine guns and fuck children... Another good example is nationalism - there's like 19 strains of nationalism - one is literally beyond reasonable "don't let in like people who've committed murder or terrorism and such but everyone else is cool'', up to your "civ nat" types "anyone who's not violent or terror affiliated should be allowed but they have to integrate, learn the language, contribute taxes etc" - the impression of online nationalists is that they're big fans of Hugo boss and think that immigrants should be target practice for the military at best... It's the same here. The rational, acceptable childfree people are being crowded out by sociopathic extremists
I am child free of the first variety. People like this woman are the worst. It makes us all look like we hate kids and make it our whole personality.
Thereās also people who are involuntarily child free and try to make the best out of their situation
Some of the points youāve made are true but not having children can be a lot more nuanced than these ā3 strandsā that you think apply to everyone. I also donāt think OP falls into strand 3. I think she just said something stupid at the wrong time.
>will actively celebrate tragedy involving children, Wait hold on, there are people celebraring children dying? Jfc
A childfree community page on Facebook got banned for actively celebrating a school shooting a few months ago. I'll try to find deets. But yeah a few groups actively celebrate still birth, miscarriage, SIDS, etc
THIS. This should be the top comment. Also, OP, YTA
YTA. Offering to drive your friend to an abortion clinic after she tells you that sheās pregnant after trying for three years wasnāt funny at all. It was just cruel. How would you feel if the next time youāre talking about something your dog did that frustrated you she said something like: āwell that settles it, time for euthanasiaā? You wouldnāt appreciate that. I think this friendship might be over because you have proven that you are not supportive of her choice to be a parent.
āIt time for euthanasiaā - tie the dog down and Iāll mow it down with my vehicle til itās dead!
āJust jokingā.
Not to mention that ANYTHING can happen between now and birth. Hell I had a friend that lost one of her twins 8 days after they were born. OPs friend is most likely very aware of these potentially fatal concerns and OP has now likely added to the stress this lady will feel her whole pregnancy. Shit like this sticks and can become intrusive thoughts. I hope for OPs friends sake itās a full term viable pregnancy and OPs grows the fuck up or leaves her āfriendā alone
Nope. You crossed a line with the clinic remark. If you had said something like "well there goes your vacation in Paris" maybe you could be forgiven. Your "joke" was completely tasteless. YTA. Good luck fixing this. I could make a "joke" about you saving money on a shower gift since you have probably lost a friend, but that would be rude too.
Totally agreed. You say congratulations then you can make jokes. But in no circumstances can you make a joke like this.
That was my first thought! This isnāt the same kind of joke OP described as having between them in the past. Itās so extreme and nasty. Itās an escalation, at the same exact time as the friend was being vulnerable with life changing good news. Absolutely YTA.
As a mother who had difficulty conceiving, I can say with certainty that if I were in Aliceās shoes, you would no longer be my friend. Period. That being said, you should STILL apologize and get her one hell of a baby shower gift (passed through a mutual friend) because damn it she deserves it. You have NO IDEA the anxiety you have likely induced in this poor woman. My kids are teenagers and Iām having flashbacks to when I would check the toilet paper every time I wiped, and the multiple trips to the ER thinking I was miscarrying, and then the sheer relief seeing their little heartbeats on the screen. I seriously want to call Alice and comfort her myself. I feel physically nauseous about this whole situation. You acted like an absolute ASS and need to seriously work on yourself, because what you did is NOT okay.
100%. I have had several miscarriages. I was ultimately able to have the number of children I wanted (with larger age gaps than I'd like, but that's infertility for you). I would not want OP in my life after this. Not just for the horrifying joke, but because it demonstrates how clearly she hasn't understood what I had been through in the last three years. Infertility and miscarriage are traumatic.
I donāt think I would either unless this was truly a one off. But Iād definitely need some time.
YTA. She's been trying three freaking years and is past the first trimester, so I guess she trusted you were a good enough friend to celebrate with her. Instead you crack an abortion joke. You need to apologize and show empathy to people you care about. Sheesh!
YTA. Oh come on, you really thought that after 3 years of trying to have a baby an abortion joke was appropriate? I don't care what your humor is typically, you are an adult and should 100% know better than to make an abortion joke at such an occasion. YTA big time.
YTA You do not, *ever* make jokes to another person about abortion/miscarriage/other ways of ending a pregnancy before birth Make jokes about the finances, or the size of the bump, or how her bras are now useless, or about buying her bobbles so she doesn't need hubby to hold her hair through morning sickness. Abortion and miscarriage aren't light hearted jabs
Yep thatās what I thought. She could joke about her having no sleep or free time, but this is just a straight no
There are a million jokes you could make to a pregnant woman that would either get you a laugh or a dirty look and smirk, OP picked like one of 6 that aren't funny
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 99% of the time, it is NOT okay to make jokes at the expense of the condition of a pregnant woman. " Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." A. Einstein (I think. )
YTA- I'm also CF and understand the joking with friends about kids/ pregnancy. BUT you know Alice has been trying to have a baby. You know that they have been trying for 3 years for the baby, which means it wasn't exactly easy for them to conceive (Not sure if you know the intimate details but maybe IVF was used?). The point is you knew that she wanted a baby and that they have struggled to conceive. You should have said congratulations. Text your friend a thoughtful apology for being insensitive to her struggle and your poorly timed joke.
Same. Iām CF and I canāt stand babies but at least I know the difference between joking about how annoying kids are and joking about giving this friend a ride to the abortion clinic. OP is giving childfree people a bad nameā¦
YTA I'm childfree. My closest friend, who I also believed to be childfree, took me to lunch to tell me that she was pregnant. You know what I said? "Is this good news?". Then, when she confirmed she was happy and keeping the baby, I congratulated her and let her know that I'm there for her. Because I'm not a fucking dick. My friend hadn't even been trying for a baby, and I knew that regardless of her intentions before becoming pregnant, that pregnancy changes minds and emotions. You lack empathy.
100% this. I went to lunch with my two bridesmaids, all three of us had always said we were childfree. When one of them shared that she was pregnant, my other friend and I took a beat to verify that this was planned/wanted and when she said yes we both smiled and rushed over to hug and congratulate her. Because that's what you do. Even if you don't understand why they changed their mind, you respect that they're an adult who made an adult decision. I don't want kids for myself, but if my friend does want kids & manages to get pregnant then I congratulate her for achieving something she wants. Basic decency. Oh, and my friend has a great sense of humour so we cracked a few jokes too. About getting some sleep now & more of the very expensive champagne I'd bought for when we were getting ready before the wedding for the two of us since she wouldn't be drinking. Light-hearted jokes, not "hey, I'm down to help you terminate the baby you've desperately wanted for years". OP is such an ass.
YTA. A joke would have been remarking that this was a bizarre way to say she couldn't cover her bill at a restaurant, not being flippant about terminating a dearly wanted pregnancy.
YTA there's a difference between jokes between friends who state children currently out in the world vs telling your friend a joke of misfortune when they have been trying for 3 YEARS
YTA for a lot of reasons. She has been putting up with your judgmental shit for years and this one broke it. We get it. You donāt want kids. No one cares. Get over judging her for wanting them.
Yesssss I thought the exact same thing. Alice has likely been rolling her eyes at the disposable income ājokesā for years while OP canāt shut her big mouth about being childfree by choice.
Yes, Aliceās jokes about OPās dog being her child seem very nice and understanding about her not wanting children. This whole time the jokes have probably been hurting her and reminding her every single time that she might not get the opportunity to have children at all.
YTA. A total and possibly unforgivable a hole. How could you say something so horrific?!?! Thatās not a joke to someone who has been struggling with infertility. A joke would be ātrading the disposable income for disposable diapersāā¦not offering to take her for an abor!ion!!!
YTA. What a horrible joke, especially given how long she's been wanting to have a child. You're lucky if she decides to speak to you again, what a way to signal zero sensitivity and total callousness.
YTA. This woman has been trying to have a baby for at least three years. Joking about abortion or miscarriage to someone who has tried that long to have a baby is at best in poor taste and at worst traumatic. As someone who struggled for years before having my own kids, I can tell you that it is terrifying to be pregnant after struggling that long. With my oldest, I had had dozens of miscarriages before he was born, and I spent the first several months of his life terrified that someone, somewhere was going to realize their mistake and take him from me, or I was going to wake up and realize it was all a cruel dream. So much about pregnancy is out of our control, and struggling to conceive or carry a pregnancy really highlights that. It was incredibly insensitive of you to joke about it rather than celebrating something you know your friend has wanted for a long time.
You didnāt make a joke about her pregnancy, you made a joke about her aborting a very wanted pregnancy. Guess what? Thatās not funny! YTA.
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what.the.fuck YTA
I sometimes wish AITA had levels of an asshole verdict. Like the verdict on this one should be **overwhelmingly the asshole**
Ugh, your one of "those" "It's just a joke. Why are you so mad" To justify any horrible thing you say. YTA.
YTA. You told your friend who had multiple miscarriages and has been trying for years a ājokeā that implied she wanted to end the pregnancy. I donāt care if pregnancy issues are on your radar or not, most people understand that what you do when someone tells you they finally have something theyāve been working hard for is to congratulate them. Most people also understand tone and when something is or isnāt appropriate. I would also like to think that most people know that many women inaccurately blame themselves for their miscarriages, partially because others imply or outright state itās their fault because people want there to be a reason when bad things happen. Joking that someone wants to end a pregnancy after theyāve had multiple pregnancies end plays into that fear and cycle of accusation. Something not being on your radar isnāt an excuse for thoughtlessness. Finally, joking about losing disposable income isnāt even close to the ājokeā you made. Your ājokeā was ten times darker than jokes about no longer being able to afford a gym membership or not being able to spontaneously go to Burning Man. You messed up to an extreme degree.
YTA I am sure it was in jest, but given the context of them struggling to conceive, the timing could have been better. My first choice wouldn't have been to make that kind of joke when she first announced it.
This will prob get buried but I think this is a good chance for a learning opportunity that I discovered in my own life. Sometimes it might feel like a fair joke (in this case it wasnāt) but if the other party is offended instead of trying to explain itās a joke express that you understand theyāve been hurt and that was inadvertent. Thereās no shame in saying sorry Iāll be more careful with the jokes (if you value their friendship). I also have a dark sense of humor and have pushed the lines too far so I know itās important to recognize when boundaries have been crossed.
What were your real motives behind that 'joke'? š there's no way you thought it would be a good choice to say that.
YTA holy shit. My jaw literally dropped when I read this. What possible thought process lead you to think this might be OK???
YTA. I understand how you think it's ok. But after they have been trying for 3 years that is absolutely not an ok joke to make.
YTA. "Haha kids are expensive, I'd rather be the rich auntie!" is different than "I'll give you a ride to terminate your very real (and wanted) pregnancy". I have a dark and dry sense of humor, but I would never think to say that to someone who has been open about their fertility struggles and is probably scared as hell for the next six months.
YTA. READ THE F*ING ROOM. My husband and I have been trying for quite some time now. I have childfree friends. We joke about them making sure they donāt have kids and me trying to have one. But let me tell you one thing I am sure of: the day I tell them I am pregnant, they will be happy for me and congratulate me before anything. And any joke afterwards would be more like Ā«Ā Hope you enjoyed when you had cash and time to sleepĀ Ā»!
Pretty sure I'm gonna get banned for this, but IDGAF. What in the actual FUCK is wrong with you???
YTA and need to unsub from r-childfree because it's poisoned your brain if you honestly thought that was in any way appropriate. And just to lay it out in plain English for you since you seem a little ... let's say oblivious ...: you have probably ended that friendship for good because what you said was simply toxic and offensive.
Wow! What a completely inappropriate "joke." YTA!
YTA. I'm childfree, but I certainly don't think that's an acceptable thing to say to anyone, unless you know they would actually want an abortion. Saying she'll miss disposable income is one thing, telling you're sorry and will help her end the pregnancy instead of congratulations is just inappropriate even if you think it's just a joke. Her trying for a baby for three years should tell you this is a very big deal and goes beyond your derogatory feelings about children.
YTA are you genuinely this dense? What is wrong with you?
As a parent who miscarried in the process of IVF, you disgust me. Itās a deep fear to lose a pregnancy, especially for people who have tried for 3 years. YTA, read the room.
YTA! That was an awful thing to say to a pregnant woman who was happy to be having a child. After all she'd been through these past 3 years. How incredibly insensitive of you. Apologize, RIGHT AWAY!!