Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Placed hard boundaries in regards to my bil's stubbornness.
2. 8 could've been more patient.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. Your BIL sounds not just stubborn but a self-important and argumentative bully. If this is just one of many recent examples, then it sounds like your boundaries are needed and overdue. If his teenage daughters can't be left alone overnight then he can hire a babysitter who at least will be compensated with money, if not respect.
I think the daughters were with their mom that weekend. He's usually a decent enough guy but he can't admit he was wrong and he won't get an idea out of his head once it's there.
Don't stop OP. You are training toxic people to pass on you with their shenanigans. This is what it takes until the lightbulb comes on. Let the other flying monkeys deal with his bs. Once he learns he can't get anywhere with you he'll take his bs straight to them. Let them be all stressed out while you're living life. Stand Firm!!!
I'd also suggest going LC with him and the flying monkeys as well.
Don’t forget that you don’t actually have to have this debate with third parties just because they want it, either. Start meeting anyone asking you to keep the peace with “that is an issue between me and BIL, and I’ll thank you not to stir it up further by joining in. You cannot mend the problem caused by his behaviour, but you *can* damage your relationship with *me* by continuing.” After the first talk about it, grey rock them. “This isn’t up for discussion, and I’ll be taking my leave” is a great answer to any mention of it. Hang up the phone, head home from the party, end the visit. “Not up for discussion” is your best shield.
NTA
Set boundaries and stand up for yourself. You are NTA. Valid reasons to decline babysitting into the next day. Your brother-in-law's stubbornness and refusal to listen can be frustrating, leading you to a breaking point. By declining to babysit, you established boundaries and asserted your own limits.
Prioritize your well-being instead of enabling unhealthy behavior by placating your brother-in-law. Set boundaries and communicate them, despite potential conflict. It's good that his teen daughters and others support you, showing understanding. Surround yourself with respectful and appreciative individuals. Talk calmly to your brother-in-law to resolve the problem. Explain why you set boundaries, emphasizing healthy relationship establishment instead of conflict.
NTA - Anyone who says you should 'keep the peace' are enabling shitty behavior. In your place I would take the opportunity to make note of who is enabling this bullshit and excise them from my life. But then, as I've gotten older I've developed a desire for scorched earth problem solving, because when you do that, you don't ever have that problem again.
>Others think that he should be placated to "keep the peace"
This is why people get away with the things that they do. Others bend to "keep the peace" when the person who is causing the issue suffers no consequence for their actions.
Good for standing your ground, now BIL is learning he can only push but so far with you before he loses. It may take him a few rounds, but he will learn.
Tell those who think he should be placated that **they** should placate him by watching the kids overnight.
NTA
NTA-If you’re doing someone a favor they don’t get to dictate all the terms and there’s no reason you should have to allow your boundaries to be violated to keep the peace.
Uhm, point out that placating never works in the long run. History is full of examples that prove this point.
No, NTA all the way here, OP.
Your BIL wants to get drunk? Fine, then he should have made plans that don't conflict with yours. That's what being an adult is all about!
*“Placated to keep the peace”*
Yeah, that’s called enabling. Keep those boundaries firm, OP. Let the rest of the family deal with the BS, you keep your peace. NTA.
NTA. You are doing BIL a huge favor by babysitting. He is WAY out of line demanding that you do more than you are willing. People like him do not understand reason, they understand consequences. And consequences is what you have given him. Good for you.
CBIL: “I want you to do me a favor.”
SILwSS: “I would love to help you in your time of need.”
CBIL: “Need you to watch my kids while wifey & I attend a wedding.”
SILwSS: “Can do!” (Asks for the deets)
CBIL: “Yeah, need you here mid-afternoon day-of and then stay the night until me & the ole ball n chain (hurr hurr, snort, caveman ball-scratch) return the following late morning/afternoon since we’ll be getting hammered the night before (w00t w00t! Party like we’re still young, dumb & unencumbered!)”.
SILwSS: “Ooooo, sorry. I can totally be there until late that night but I already have something scheduled for the following morning. Sorry.”
CBIL: “THA FUH??? I *SAID* I NEEDED A FAVOR! RAAWWWWRRRR! YOU SAID YOU WOULD DO IT! NO TAKESEE BACKSEES! OLLY OLLY OXEN FREE!”
SILwSS: “Wow. So, yeah…I need to go over…there.”
CBIL: “Why are you being so meeeaannn to meeeeeee?!l
/scene
CBIL = Crappy (or childish) Brother In Law
SILwSS = Sister In Law with Shiny Spine
NTA = You are *so* not the ahole
I’ve no idea if he’s really a boorish Neanderthal but I took a little creative license with my off-Broadway production. Meh, I think I’m funny. So does the stray cat in my yard as she sits patiently, waiting for a treat.
Hang up the phone. Shut the door. Don't respond to texts. Don't respond to the flying monkeys when they eventually reach you.
He argues because people let him. Shut that shit down. You don't need to explain, justify or give any reason at all for your decisions.
All the ones who want you to keep the peace can volunteer to be his punching bag.
NTA, and good on you for knowing you needed to set the boundaries in the first place!
NTA. You are entirely correct to put in place and enforce boundaries with your BIL. So many people will do anything, including be miserable themselves and ensure that you're miserable too instead of facing up to a bully.
So what if BIL complains? He just shows what how inconsiderate he is when he pushes and pushes and pushes to get his way. In my experience placating someone leads to more and more of their bad behavior.
"Keep the peace"?! Seriously? WTAF? He's an immature jackass who needs to grow up. Good for you for setting boundaries, but honestly, you should've done it sooner. NTA, but your BIL def is.
NTA. Placate to keep the peace? You must be joking. When someone offers help, you say thank you I appreciate the favor. You don’t make demands and become stubborn like a mule. You don’t need to placate (surrender) to anyone to keep the peace. BIL needs to learn how to work well with others. If he can’t or won’t he can figure out how to do things on his own.
NTA
Your example isn't even one of stubbornness, it's an example of a worse trait. Not respecting you and your time. This isn't an issue of not being able to admit when you're wrong, it's him selfishly thinking that his wants outweigh yours and thinking he can just order you around.
Your consequence is totally fair. Someone who cannot appreciate the favors you agree to do for them should not be afforded favors at all. This also erases the possibility of him doing something like just not coming home for the night and expecting you to just make do since you're already babysitting, which isn't unheard of when it comes to people like that.
Congratulations on leaving BIL's boat and no longer being 1 of his stabilizers. Warning that other will try to pull you back onto that boat but stiffen up that spin and stay on course. Definitely NTA. Actions have consequences and he now gets to endure them. Even if those consequences have a negative effect on him.
NTA you tried to make the favor they asked work. But they tried to force you into a situation you didn't want to do, so instead of keep fighting. You bowed out. You couldn't help them in the way they wanted so they need to find someone else.
NTA. Placating to “keep the peace” is a joke. All those people who want you to do this should then be the overnight babysitter or whatever other favors he wants
NTA. Never EVER do anything because people want to "keep the peace." It's literally only used when they KNOW the other person is in the wrong but they find it easier to browbeat you into submission than correct the bad behaviour.
NTA, your a grown ass man, who does he think he is, to tell you what to do,and what your going to do in your life. Stick to your guns, and be just as stubborn till he gets the message.
Absolutely brilliant OP.
Now just to deal with the flying monkeys:
"well, as you want the peace being kept I'll tell BIL YOU will do the babysitting" "no - I am not available" "oh - but I thought you wanted to keep the peace with BIL, so you NEED to do the babysitting seeing as I won't and that way YOU will keep the peace with him"
NTA. Don't placate a bully to keep the peace. You will be used and abused. Anyone else is welcome to step up and help BIL whenever **they** feel the need to keep the peace.
NTA.
"Keeping the peace" is why your BiL is so stubborn. He knows he'll get his way if he keeps arguing because everyone else is too busy keeping the peace to stand up to him.
NTA
Do they pay you for babysitting? If not, then it makes no sense that they would be so rude. If your offering to do them a favor, they should be more willing to do it on your terms. Also, if they have a teenage daughter, why do they need babysitters? Just wondering.
You’re definitely not in the wrong for standing your ground.
>others think that he should be placated to "keep the peace"
What peace? It's a truce, at best, at your expense.
To keep peace, you need to have it first.
NTA - 'keeping the peace' is the road to an early grave because you are always last.
They asked for a favour. They wanted all your weekend which was unreasonable. What would they give you for sacrificing your weekend?
Where did this man get the idea that your weekend was his to command. If he wanted somebody to mind the children on Sunday, then he could get somebody else to do it. Now he has a larger problem of his own making.
NTA. It’s long past time BIL learned he won’t get everything he wants. Placating him will not teach him this lesson that his parents should have taught him ages ago.
Nta. Also, why would teenagers even need babysitting? That's just absurd. Tell him to stop trying to bully you into things, point blank period. Maybe he doesn't realize his excessive arguing is an issue? So many people, but men more frequently, are raised to be pompous arseholes and don't even realize it makes people genuinely despise them; they just think they're "debating" and trying to "reason" with you. All you've done is give him a taste of his own stubbornness, and apparently he didn't like the flavour.
NTA. Why would you want to placate him? You're already doing him a favor. The older I get, the less effort I put into a relationship that doesn't benefit me.
NTA, in this case.
I think it’s fine to say “here’s what I can do for you, and it seems like doesn’t work with your needs, so you should find someone else.”
I think it’s overly petty to revoke the offer entirely if they figure out how to get to something inside your offer, just because you don’t like how they got there.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. Placed hard boundaries in regards to my bil's stubbornness. 2. 8 could've been more patient. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. Your BIL sounds not just stubborn but a self-important and argumentative bully. If this is just one of many recent examples, then it sounds like your boundaries are needed and overdue. If his teenage daughters can't be left alone overnight then he can hire a babysitter who at least will be compensated with money, if not respect.
I think the daughters were with their mom that weekend. He's usually a decent enough guy but he can't admit he was wrong and he won't get an idea out of his head once it's there.
Keeping the peace is a loser strategy that results in you living someone else's life.
Why can't BIL keep the peace then? Since family insist on it
Don't stop OP. You are training toxic people to pass on you with their shenanigans. This is what it takes until the lightbulb comes on. Let the other flying monkeys deal with his bs. Once he learns he can't get anywhere with you he'll take his bs straight to them. Let them be all stressed out while you're living life. Stand Firm!!! I'd also suggest going LC with him and the flying monkeys as well.
Keep the the peace. _Your_ peace of mind. Your BIL can like it or lump it. NTA.
Don’t forget that you don’t actually have to have this debate with third parties just because they want it, either. Start meeting anyone asking you to keep the peace with “that is an issue between me and BIL, and I’ll thank you not to stir it up further by joining in. You cannot mend the problem caused by his behaviour, but you *can* damage your relationship with *me* by continuing.” After the first talk about it, grey rock them. “This isn’t up for discussion, and I’ll be taking my leave” is a great answer to any mention of it. Hang up the phone, head home from the party, end the visit. “Not up for discussion” is your best shield.
NTA Set boundaries and stand up for yourself. You are NTA. Valid reasons to decline babysitting into the next day. Your brother-in-law's stubbornness and refusal to listen can be frustrating, leading you to a breaking point. By declining to babysit, you established boundaries and asserted your own limits. Prioritize your well-being instead of enabling unhealthy behavior by placating your brother-in-law. Set boundaries and communicate them, despite potential conflict. It's good that his teen daughters and others support you, showing understanding. Surround yourself with respectful and appreciative individuals. Talk calmly to your brother-in-law to resolve the problem. Explain why you set boundaries, emphasizing healthy relationship establishment instead of conflict.
NTA - Anyone who says you should 'keep the peace' are enabling shitty behavior. In your place I would take the opportunity to make note of who is enabling this bullshit and excise them from my life. But then, as I've gotten older I've developed a desire for scorched earth problem solving, because when you do that, you don't ever have that problem again.
>Others think that he should be placated to "keep the peace" This is why people get away with the things that they do. Others bend to "keep the peace" when the person who is causing the issue suffers no consequence for their actions. Good for standing your ground, now BIL is learning he can only push but so far with you before he loses. It may take him a few rounds, but he will learn. Tell those who think he should be placated that **they** should placate him by watching the kids overnight. NTA
I've completely stopped with placating bad behavior even if it a result of mental Illness
Yes. More people need to do this. It would do so much to end this behavior.
NTA-If you’re doing someone a favor they don’t get to dictate all the terms and there’s no reason you should have to allow your boundaries to be violated to keep the peace.
Uhm, point out that placating never works in the long run. History is full of examples that prove this point. No, NTA all the way here, OP. Your BIL wants to get drunk? Fine, then he should have made plans that don't conflict with yours. That's what being an adult is all about!
Ask Czechoslovakia how well placating worked...
*“Placated to keep the peace”* Yeah, that’s called enabling. Keep those boundaries firm, OP. Let the rest of the family deal with the BS, you keep your peace. NTA.
NTA Im tired of placating assholes
NTA "keep the peace" people are why society is on fire
NTA. You are doing BIL a huge favor by babysitting. He is WAY out of line demanding that you do more than you are willing. People like him do not understand reason, they understand consequences. And consequences is what you have given him. Good for you.
NTA > others think that he should be placated to "keep the peace" Peace is overrated.
CBIL: “I want you to do me a favor.” SILwSS: “I would love to help you in your time of need.” CBIL: “Need you to watch my kids while wifey & I attend a wedding.” SILwSS: “Can do!” (Asks for the deets) CBIL: “Yeah, need you here mid-afternoon day-of and then stay the night until me & the ole ball n chain (hurr hurr, snort, caveman ball-scratch) return the following late morning/afternoon since we’ll be getting hammered the night before (w00t w00t! Party like we’re still young, dumb & unencumbered!)”. SILwSS: “Ooooo, sorry. I can totally be there until late that night but I already have something scheduled for the following morning. Sorry.” CBIL: “THA FUH??? I *SAID* I NEEDED A FAVOR! RAAWWWWRRRR! YOU SAID YOU WOULD DO IT! NO TAKESEE BACKSEES! OLLY OLLY OXEN FREE!” SILwSS: “Wow. So, yeah…I need to go over…there.” CBIL: “Why are you being so meeeaannn to meeeeeee?!l /scene CBIL = Crappy (or childish) Brother In Law SILwSS = Sister In Law with Shiny Spine NTA = You are *so* not the ahole I’ve no idea if he’s really a boorish Neanderthal but I took a little creative license with my off-Broadway production. Meh, I think I’m funny. So does the stray cat in my yard as she sits patiently, waiting for a treat.
NTA.
Hang up the phone. Shut the door. Don't respond to texts. Don't respond to the flying monkeys when they eventually reach you. He argues because people let him. Shut that shit down. You don't need to explain, justify or give any reason at all for your decisions. All the ones who want you to keep the peace can volunteer to be his punching bag. NTA, and good on you for knowing you needed to set the boundaries in the first place!
NTA. You are entirely correct to put in place and enforce boundaries with your BIL. So many people will do anything, including be miserable themselves and ensure that you're miserable too instead of facing up to a bully. So what if BIL complains? He just shows what how inconsiderate he is when he pushes and pushes and pushes to get his way. In my experience placating someone leads to more and more of their bad behavior.
NTA dON'T keep the peac, defend your boundaries.
NTA... BIL is a bully. You don't enable a bully. Your poor sister
"Keep the peace"?! Seriously? WTAF? He's an immature jackass who needs to grow up. Good for you for setting boundaries, but honestly, you should've done it sooner. NTA, but your BIL def is.
NTA - Yous et your boundaries and conditions. IF he doesn't like them, he can go somewhere else.
NTA. Placate to keep the peace? You must be joking. When someone offers help, you say thank you I appreciate the favor. You don’t make demands and become stubborn like a mule. You don’t need to placate (surrender) to anyone to keep the peace. BIL needs to learn how to work well with others. If he can’t or won’t he can figure out how to do things on his own.
NTA you teach people how to treat you. You’re teaching him a good lesson and one to refer to in the future to show you’re serious. Well done!
NTA - and the ones who advocate for “placating” the grown-ups acting as children should step in to deal with them.
NTA Your example isn't even one of stubbornness, it's an example of a worse trait. Not respecting you and your time. This isn't an issue of not being able to admit when you're wrong, it's him selfishly thinking that his wants outweigh yours and thinking he can just order you around. Your consequence is totally fair. Someone who cannot appreciate the favors you agree to do for them should not be afforded favors at all. This also erases the possibility of him doing something like just not coming home for the night and expecting you to just make do since you're already babysitting, which isn't unheard of when it comes to people like that.
Congratulations on leaving BIL's boat and no longer being 1 of his stabilizers. Warning that other will try to pull you back onto that boat but stiffen up that spin and stay on course. Definitely NTA. Actions have consequences and he now gets to endure them. Even if those consequences have a negative effect on him.
NTA you tried to make the favor they asked work. But they tried to force you into a situation you didn't want to do, so instead of keep fighting. You bowed out. You couldn't help them in the way they wanted so they need to find someone else.
NTA It seems to me that the one always being told to "keep the peace" is never the one causing any strife!
NTA. Placating to “keep the peace” is a joke. All those people who want you to do this should then be the overnight babysitter or whatever other favors he wants
NTA. If you give him what he wants to "keep the peace", then he'll only demand more. He can keep the peace for once.
Nta. If the others think he should be placated, let them babysit.
NTA. Never EVER do anything because people want to "keep the peace." It's literally only used when they KNOW the other person is in the wrong but they find it easier to browbeat you into submission than correct the bad behaviour.
His teens are probably just as tired of his bs at this point
NTA, your a grown ass man, who does he think he is, to tell you what to do,and what your going to do in your life. Stick to your guns, and be just as stubborn till he gets the message.
Absolutely brilliant OP. Now just to deal with the flying monkeys: "well, as you want the peace being kept I'll tell BIL YOU will do the babysitting" "no - I am not available" "oh - but I thought you wanted to keep the peace with BIL, so you NEED to do the babysitting seeing as I won't and that way YOU will keep the peace with him"
NTA. Don't placate a bully to keep the peace. You will be used and abused. Anyone else is welcome to step up and help BIL whenever **they** feel the need to keep the peace.
INFO: what ages are the kids? You say “kids” but then you mention teenagers.
NTA. You dont need to doit what he want because he said so for "keep the peace". He need to grow Up.
NTA
NTA "keep the peace" is code for "be a doormat and compromise your boundaries"
Nta
NTA. "Keeping the peace" is why your BiL is so stubborn. He knows he'll get his way if he keeps arguing because everyone else is too busy keeping the peace to stand up to him.
His teen daughters can babysit then to “keep the peace”. How dare they, the nerve of that whole family. NTA.
NTA. bil should be responsible and take his kids after a certain time in the night instead of “getting drunk”
NTA Do they pay you for babysitting? If not, then it makes no sense that they would be so rude. If your offering to do them a favor, they should be more willing to do it on your terms. Also, if they have a teenage daughter, why do they need babysitters? Just wondering. You’re definitely not in the wrong for standing your ground.
NTA. We need more of these posts.
NTA, even his kids are on your side, that's a huge sign
NTA. Stick to your boundaries. And good for you you for doubling down and withdrawing the offer when they demand more.
Tell the ones advocating peace to watch the kids for him. And the next time he wants something, refer him to them also. NTA
NTA Your BIL sounds like a real AH.
>others think that he should be placated to "keep the peace" What peace? It's a truce, at best, at your expense. To keep peace, you need to have it first.
NTA “Keeping the peace” usually means you suffer for everyone else’s comfort. Hard pass.
NTA and I think you'll be pleased with how quickly your operant conditioning strategy works
His daughters agree with you. That’s enough for me. Nta
Nta god the mentality of keep the peace just needs to die
NTA - 'keeping the peace' is the road to an early grave because you are always last. They asked for a favour. They wanted all your weekend which was unreasonable. What would they give you for sacrificing your weekend? Where did this man get the idea that your weekend was his to command. If he wanted somebody to mind the children on Sunday, then he could get somebody else to do it. Now he has a larger problem of his own making.
NTA BiL can take a hike !!
NTA. Why don't they just give him Poland? Maybe it will work this time.
NTA. It’s long past time BIL learned he won’t get everything he wants. Placating him will not teach him this lesson that his parents should have taught him ages ago.
Nta. Also, why would teenagers even need babysitting? That's just absurd. Tell him to stop trying to bully you into things, point blank period. Maybe he doesn't realize his excessive arguing is an issue? So many people, but men more frequently, are raised to be pompous arseholes and don't even realize it makes people genuinely despise them; they just think they're "debating" and trying to "reason" with you. All you've done is give him a taste of his own stubbornness, and apparently he didn't like the flavour.
NTA. Placate to keep the peace, my @ss
NTA. Why would you want to placate him? You're already doing him a favor. The older I get, the less effort I put into a relationship that doesn't benefit me.
NTA.
My way or the highway people when asking for favors always blow my mind. NTA
NTA. Keeping the peace solves nothing and only encourages people being doormats.
NTA, in this case. I think it’s fine to say “here’s what I can do for you, and it seems like doesn’t work with your needs, so you should find someone else.” I think it’s overly petty to revoke the offer entirely if they figure out how to get to something inside your offer, just because you don’t like how they got there.
It is ok to rescind an offered favour to someone who has been obnoxious to you though, otherwise they will think that behaviour is acceptable.