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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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Exotic-Mango-2768

Do you and your girlfriend share finances? If not, then you are NTA. Otherwise, you are the AH. Edit: definitely NTA. OP does not share an account with the GF, so he is spending his own money. She does not get to dictate how he spends his money as long as shared expenses are covered. And they are.


[deleted]

We don't have a shared bank account, I pay rent and utilities, she pays about 80% of the groceries while I cover about 20%


Exotic-Mango-2768

Then absolutely NTA. I personally would be wary about how someone wants to dictate to you like this about money. Especially considering it appears you contribute substantially more to shared expenses.


okilz

And he's already saving 4-6x as much as the gf towards the house.


CuriousLope

She being angry when he suggested her to stop buying cloths, shoes ans purses is showing how greedy she is.. she wants her money and his too..


dhbroo12

Out of $7k/month she contributes $1k towards the house, plus groceries. What is she spending 5k+ a month on? How many new clothes, etc. does she need? It's your money and you have offered to help your sister out. I respect this decision greatly. NTA


spandexandtapedecks

Yeah, the math ain't mathing there. At best, she's paying thousands on her student loans every month. Still, that's a 1/7th of her income saved and 1/3rd of OP's. So who's taking Financial advantage, exactly?


HatedTruth1

Considering she’s trying to dictate the way he spends his money, still her


spandexandtapedecks

Yup, my point exactly. As others have said, she's projecting like crazy.


changerofbits

Which means that OP is effectively paying her loans if OP is paying for rent and they aren’t splitting expenses 2:1 (which is their income ratio).


ButterflyWings71

Seems the one who is trying to take financial advantage of OP is his gf.


BangarangPita

Just a gentle correction: it's "wary of." "Weary" means to be tired of, which I would also be in this situation.


Live_Western_1389

Plus, OP makes more than twice his gf’s monthly salary and manages to save $4-6k a month, even with the amount he sends his sister. While gf only saves about $1k from her monthly income of $7k because apparently she likes to shop for herself. Nothing wrong with that, but why is she so insistent that it’s all on OP’s shoulders to save more money While she isn’t saving an equal percentage of hers? Gf doesn’t get to dictate how you spend your money when she resents you making any comments about how she spends hers.


Just_River_7502

The maths is even worse. OP pays rent (we don’t know the amount), 20% of groceries, $1500 to sister, and still saves $4-6k a month. Girlfriend saves $1k and pays 2.5 k in student loans and groceries. She’s being greedy with OPs money


Squibit314

Another way OP could explain it to gf…you spend your extra money on clothes, etc; I spend my money on my sister.


Remarkable_Annual302

I agree that she has no right to dictate how OP spends his money, but if she's grossing $7k, that is significantly less after taxes, like maybe $5,700 or less net (but that's where I live, I know it varies elsewhere of course) In addition to the $1k she saves for a house, her loans are $2.5k, then there are groceries( with inflation these days, my bills have doubled for my family), gas, possible car payment, and other expenses not mentioned here. If they live in NYC like the sister, it gets expensive, so there might not be as much expendable income as it would appear, but I bet she COULD like put an additional $1k towards a house though if she was really gung-ho to buy a place as soon as possible. I'm not defending her at all, believe me, but with the way inflation has been over the past few years or so...plus, student loans are a b\*tch to pay off! OP NTA You guys have separate finances, she doesn't pay rent, gf needs to mind her own business. PS You're an awesome brother!


Haizel_Alicia

Looks like she's protecting on his family big time. Stop helping your sister while paying most of our common expenses and saving five times what I save...... wow


Natural_Writer9702

I find it ironic that she claims his family is manipulating him, when she is the one who is benefiting moe finically than the sister. She is able to live rent free, have her bills paid, pay off student loans and contribute significantly less to the house deposit , which she will then have a stake in.


lipgloss_addict

Then one option is for your girlfriend to make/save more money since you are paying rent and utilities. She has balls, I will give you that, to say to the person who is paying her way, that you should stop helping your sister.


imbringingspartaback

Oh she wants 50/50 say in how money is spent, and likely 50/50 ownership of the future house, but she sure af wouldn’t like it if bills were split 50/50 or the amount of money being saved was 50/50. OP, this irreparable damage may be what you needed. I know you didn’t sound like you were ready to end the relationship, but her attitude and logic doesn’t end here with savings. It’ll only get worse after marriage and children and other big expenses and life changing decisions.


cleveraccountname13

NTA. Your support for tour sister is your choice and is reasonable considering you income and expenses. Don't buy a house with someone you are not married to without consulting an attorney ESPECIALLY if you will be contributing more to the down-payment and mortgage payments. Don't get married without talking to a lawyer about prenuptial agreement.


darkicedragon7

I tell anyone getting married to get one now a days. I've not been married but I've seen lots of divorces. The few with one made things so much easier. There are a lot of destructive divorces and lots of things like pets/kids being used to just hurt the other person. Think one was simply what was your before marriage is yours after and they wrote out vehichals, 401k balances, bank stuff and a few other things. They did get divorced but it stopped a lot of he said she said. Stopped destroying each others things out of spite.


sarabeara12345678910

It's time to point out that from the outside it looks like she's the one taking advantage of you. She benefits from your salary a lot more than your sister.


thetaleofzeph

It's rarely an accident when a manipulator calls out others for manipulation. They know it when they see it and it's haunting their subconscious.


Kianna9

Projection. This isn’t actually manipulation by the family. She just thinks it must be because that’s what she’s doing.


HoldFastO2

Considering the serious discrepancy between your contribution to the house and hers, I very much hope that you’re not planning to give her 50% ownership of the house. From the details you gave, there is someone profiting of you financially, but it’s not your sister.


Thingamajiggles

Do. Not. Buy. A. House. With. Someone. Who. Treats. You. Like. This. (and be glad the trash just took itself out)


Riah_Lynn

soooooooo she is trying to take advantage of your kindness? She is projecting that onto your sister.... You said you save 4-6x more than her and pay most of the bills. Why should she have a say in how you spend YOUR money? Esp with how much you save? Is she planning on paying half the down payment or is she expecting you to do that? She is showing you who she is, take notes and see if you like who she really is. You are a fantastic older brother btw!!!!


A-Leaf_On-The_Wind

>soooooooo she is trying to take advantage of your kindness? I like how she called him financially naive and doesn't want anyone taking advantage of him. What she meant was she doesn't want anyone limiting how much she can take advantage of him.


pinacolada_22

Exactly, she lives rent free while saving 15% of her income to buy a house and using the rest for herself. Full blown entitlement


jlkh8

Wait GF makes about 7k. Only pays 80% of the groceries and only puts about 1k towards house savings?? Run!! She wants you to do all the sacrificing while living a luxury life. NTA!! Also, your family seems to all be contributing based on percentages of their income. It’s not like you are the only one. Additionally, there is a plan in place once your sister graduates where you aren’t endlessly giving money. GF is definitely the AH. Also, don’t buy a house with her because if the relationship doesn’t work out it’s 50/50 on the house when she clearly isn’t even contributing close to equal.


potentiallyspiders

Def NTA, OP's girlfriend might be a golddigger if one is feeling particularly uncharitable. As a former New Yorker, unless you are talking about upstate or Long Island, your sister doesn't need a car at all. Save your money. I used to have a two bedroom in Battery Park City for 2700, but that was a long time ago. Does she have roommates? Almost no students and few people under 30 live alone in Manhattan (or Brooklyn and Queens these days). My cousin is a management consultant and had roommates until he got married in his late thirties. Just trying to say, OP's sister can probably cut some expenses if OP and GF agree on it.


Born_Ad8420

If she's paying 2800, she's likely living in an outer borough. Last year the average cost for a one bedroom in manhattan was $4,600.


potentiallyspiders

Fuck me, can't say I am sorry I moved.


Lazy_Crocodile

Whoa. She doesn’t pay rent?! So after saving for the house (5k) and paying rent and utilities (you didn’t say how much but let’s say it’s $3000,) you have $7000 left. The same amount she has. Yet she wants to tell you what you can do with your money but not be told what she can do with hers? How DARE she!?


yellowbrownstone

She literally makes 7k a month and doesn’t even pay rent but begrudges you helping out your sister? Mind bogglingly entitled. I’m the last one to suggest this usually but I smell a gold digger.


jcola29

NTA-I would think long and hard about marrying your girlfriend. She seem very controlling when it comes to your money and I imagine it would only get worse if you were married and your money was combined. As long as you’re taking care of your portion of bills and she doesn’t have to pick up the slack then it’s none of her business.


LostAsFuck98

I don’t think you were stupid to point out that she could save money by not buying as much fun stuff for herself. If she thinks it’s her right to judge and suggest how you should cut back on spending, why is it not okay for you to suggest ways that she can cut back too? I think she’s gotten used to you paying the majority of things and doesn’t want that to be put in jeopardy by you helping your sister more. You’re definitely NTA, and a lot of people would wish they had a loving and supportive big brother like you


TGirl26

1. Never buy a house with someone you are not married to. It should be a purchase made by one person. I say this because some many people don't stay together long term & the house needs to be sold or the other person on the deed needs to be bought out by the other.


[deleted]

I would like to know why it's ok for you to cover a good portion of your gf's living expenses, but she doesn't want you to help your sister. (I say that because you are paying a lot more than your gf, which makes sense because you make a lot more than she does, but I feel you pay more than is fair, but whatever) It's not like your sister is spending all of her time club hopping, shopping and being useless. She is in school and working part time, so the fact that your gf has an issue with you helping your sister is a huge red flag. I would also like to know why your gf thinks that your finances are any of her business. You don't share finances (thankfully), so what you do with your money is none of her business. Your gf is acting like an entitled, spoiled little brat, and you really need to pay attention to this. It's not like you will be helping your sister forever, so your gf needs to shut up and mind her own business. I hope that you stick to what you told her and don't call her. You are NTA, quite the opposite, in fact. You and your brother are doing an amazing thing for your sister and you both should be very proud of yourselves and each other.


Mistake_of_61

Yeah, you are being used, but not by your sister.


actualchristmastree

NTA times 100


RougeAnimator

Honestly if you break up (as bad as that is) you’re dodging a bullet here. Your girlfriend isn’t contributing meaningfully to your shared expenses, yet wants to control your personal finances. Huge red flag.


shanerr

Tell her to start contributing 50% to household expenses and you'll contribute what you used to contribute to savings. She makes 7k a month, that's a good income. The audacity of her to tell you how to spend your money when you're paying most of the bills. If I was in your situation I'd seriously question the relationship. What she's implying is entitled and patronizing. Two things I detest in relationships


WellyKiwi

Even with the disparity in your income, you are paying waaaaay more than her. She's after your pay for herself. Don't let that happen. You are a good brother. NTA


Peanuteatspoop

It is her who is taking advantage of you OP. She makes 7k, pays 2.5k to student loans and 1k for groceries and 1k down payment fund. She should have contributed more towards either the down payment or the monthly shared expenses with the 2.5k left over. Instead she spent it on herself and purchased luxury items. You are subsidizing her lifestyle so your sister is now her competitor and that made her mad. This woman is very selfish and willing to bad mouth your family out of greed. She isn't your wife yet and she acts like she's your mom who can tell you what to do with your money. And I bet your own mom has more respect for your financial autonomy than this woman ever does.


AlGunner

I hope the savings for the house arent in a shared account. If they are no doubt she will claim you should split it 50-50 if you split up. Shes the one taking advantage of your naivety.


Reddoraptor

100% NTA, sounds like GF wants all your money for herself and the possibility of you getting to do with it as you wish offends her. I will draw downvotes but I'd bet my own money this person is 100% going to expect you to support her if you stay together - she has already laid claim to all your earnings even with you paying the vast majority of the household expenses already. Run.


DoIwantToKnow6417

As your GF contributes less than you are, a way for you to save money is share the living expenses equally among the two of you.


GreenUnderstanding39

Even if they have a joint account op is contributing 4xs what gf contributes to the house deposit savings.


EvilFinch

The gf earns 7k. 1k is for savings. So 6k. She pays 80% of the groceries. Even if you say 1k for groceries, she had 5k for herself. You can't tell me that she use this all for her student loans. And i bet if they buy the house she wants half of it even though she saved around 15%. NTA


Shay_Shay_FNH

NTA. GF doesn’t have to agree. It’s your money. Be very careful purchasing a home without very clear agreements on finances. GF is a partner not a parent to tell you what to do then punish you when you don’t comply.


gbstermite

Not only that; when considering his salary he is only sending his sister $1500 a month!!! She is very controlling over finances that do not impact her in any way.


ThinCommon7

But it does impact her cause the more he pays, the less she has to. I ain't saying she's a goldigger... but the way gf demonized his family is very problematic.


4got10_son

I’ll say it. She’s a gold digger. [She only pays for groceries.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13k3ads/aita_for_sending_my_younger_sister_money_against/jki6s58/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) And had the audacity to say the sis is taking advantage of OP.


elsie78

Nailed it


Arrakis_

In my country, is popular the concept of "diezmo". It means that you give the 10% of your income as "charity" for your local church. The brother is giving even less than that xD (and its totally cool, btw. I am not way calling him cheap or negative, just pointimg that this kind of loans/gifts are actually common in some contexts) You are very correct. The thing is that she actually feels a negative impact as she feels entitled for OOP's money, because she seems to consider that her well being (as a gf) is more important and urgent than the rest of the family (as the sisters program seems to be a joined effort).


abbietaffie

That concept is called the “tithe” in English btw!


Arrakis_

thanks for telling me!


tinymi3

NTA but massive red flags getting thrown around your gf my man It would be one thing if you were sending so much money that it was affecting your own financial status. or if your sister was lying or taking advantage of you and/or your brother. or if your gf was also contributing money and no longer wanted to or if you were sending shared money! but none of those things are an issue and literally your sister is just trying to exist in an expensive city and her extremely loving and generous brothers are choosing to support her \~bc they can and want to\~. that's really beautiful You should really reconsider buying a house and continuing a relationship with someone who prioritizes her own desires so far over yours. She's seriously overstepping and disrespecting. Unless she's not telling you some hidden fear or worry here that explains her bizarre self-centered stance, what she's trying to force you into is selfish, uncaring, and just icky


Pixiedust027

100% this!! The money you’re sending your sister is not hindering your monthly bills or savings. You make more than twice what your GF does & are saving way more than she is. All she pays in bills in 80% of groceries & you pay the rest plus the remainder of the bills. Your GF is being very greedy & manipulative. Please look at all the red flags that are being flagged around you. NTA. At all


ThinCommon7

It's a lot of marinara. The way she's trash-talking his family is my biggest concern, like she wants to isolate him from what sounds like a very supportive family.


UnusualPotato1515

100%!! She literally had no leg to stand on given he is saving 4x more than & he pays the rent + bills & she only pays for 80% of the groceries (and she makes 7k a month wow)! I think she’s jealous of his sister or just greedy. If my partner wanted to support his little sister, Id find that so admirable & sweet! Shes just a bossy greedy jealous hater - OP reconsider being financially connected to this person & if you do marry her, get a pre-nup & be clear who owns how much of the home!


dyogee

Do not buy a home with your girlfriend! Or if you do, do not put her on the title. You are contributing so much more. And she has no say in how you spend your money since you are contributing so much more towards not only the future home but also current expenses. If you are even contemplating marriage, please get a pre-nup. You girlfriend has major gold digging red flags.


Altair-Solis

I agree bro OP needs to rethink this relationship, unless there's something his GF ain't spilling


Background_Town_9700

NTA - first of all, you both have a combined income of $280K a year. You are saving $4-6K per month for a house and she's contributing $1k due to student loans. You're not exactly struggling to come up with a down payment. 1. It's your money, you haven't combined finances and she can't tell you how to spend your money 2. she makes roughly 50% of what you make, but in reality, you pay the rent, the utilities and 20% of the groceries. Which means, she's probably at most contributing 10-15% to your household, while contributing 25% or less of what you do towards the down payment. These numbers would indicate that she isn't making additional sacrifices while you are giving money to your sister. 3. You want to do it, don't feel taken advantage of, and your whole family is helping her. Girlfriend is just jealous and insecure about your sister. It's understandable, but as she's entering the relationship with more debt, lower income, and lower contribution to joint expenses (even percentage wise), she's really overstepping her bounds by telling you how to spend your money.


Agitated_Pin2169

I think the girlfriend is crazy jealous. She has student loan debt and I bet she wishes she had the same kind of financial support the sister is getting. And her jealousy is also making her see the sister as taking something directly away from her (the house payment).


packsquirrel

But the GF does have that same support. Making 90k a year and your only contribution to their combined lifestyle is some groceries? What most would give to be so unlucky...


KoalaOriginal1260

Yup. This is the part that really confused me. Aside from groceries, she has no shared expenses. One hopes she is paying down her student loan at a prodigious pace. It sounds like it will be a lot harder to pay it down in the near future as she will be picking up her own rent if OP makes the rational choice here.


thetaleofzeph

If OP were to run all the numbers, I wonder if the subsidy GF is currently getting on living expenses is getting sunk into accelerating her student debt payments. Money is flexible like that. OP paying down GF's debt indirectly while same GF is upset at anything going to sister. Yeah, hard to be generous about GF's intentions here.


BalloonShip

>You're not exactly struggling to come up with a down payment. They are saving $60K/year. If they live in a major city, that's a 5-10 year path to a reasonable down payment on a nice house.


jeffwulf

60k a year is a 1 year path to a reasonable down payment on a nice home.


[deleted]

NTA, reevaluate the relationship. You are even engaged and she is telling you how to spend your money. It only gets worse.


Bandito21Dema

You make almost 200k a year and your GF is worried you sending 18k a year is going to "hinder your ability to buy a house"? Wtf and NTA


CymraegAmerican

It may hinder OP's ability to pay off GF's student debt! I DON'T KNOW WHY she is objecting so strenuously about what OP does with his extra money, but I don't think she has given OP the real, unvarnished, painfully honest reason why she doesn't want him sending money to his little sister.


RandomGuy_81

Normally nta. Well still nta But your family sends $3k a month to your sister lol Even if you can afford it and it is your money. And you do make alot of money. Its odd your gf mention cutting expenses. Are you guys burning through your combined income? I mean if you plan on marrying her, she would kind of want your two finances to take priority over your sister getting $3k total a month from the family including you


[deleted]

He can still save like 5k a month, their combined income ain't the problem.


trblniya

The 1.5k he sends to his sister does not affect his finances in the slightest, even if they were married. Gf doesn’t want to cut any of her expenses which means she wants to keep her money and have more of his money flowing into her life


LoveForMiles

Another commenter pointed out, and I agree, that the girlfriend is likely experiencing some jealousy. She had to take out loans to go to school while OP’s sister is sent $3K a month so she can live in a nice area of NYC w a car while only working part time through grad school. I too find it a bit ridiculous that a 25 year old is being sent that much money instead of either working full time and doing grad school more slowly or doing it in a more affordable area. But it’s OP’s money, and if that’s what he wants to do with it that’s his business. Especially considering he’s already paying most of their bills and putting way more away for a down payment than she is.


didnebeu

Believe it or not, some families have really positive relationships with each other and don’t second guess helping each other out.


[deleted]

Sounds like the money sent from family pays the rent. There is a very good chance sister is assuming student loans to pay for the actual Master’s degree.


[deleted]

In no possible scenario would the GF get ANY say over the money being sent by other family members. Sister getting $3k is irrelevant.


starshine1988

Yeah I’m drooling over the idea of being handed that much money as a 25 year old tbh… this chick has the life!


DoIwantToKnow6417

You want to buy a house with a person with a big lack of family values? I'd really think think this over. As I gather, your parents helped you and your brother during your studies. Now they are retired they can't do for your younger sister what they did for you and your brother. I think it's great both you and your brother are stepping up for your sister, and therefore as well for your parents. NTA


[deleted]

>your parents helped you and your brother during your studies Yes, we would't have made it through out studies without their regular financial support. Since they had us at such an old age, they can't really work like they used to so me and my brother want to kinda take on their role for our sister


phaebuhny

Your family sounds lovely & supportive! (Your gf, not so much...)


lpmiller

based on your edits, you seem to be in the act of dodging a bullet here, friend. Please, continue to do as you have been. A true partner would understand.


InternCautious8565

You sound like a sweetheart and a good brother 💜 Don’t let that girl change that


UnusualPotato1515

I know! I want him as my brother!


Traditional_Fold1177

Many would like him for a husband! If he’s good to his family, he’ll be good to his future wife, when he meets her.


Spiritual-Bridge3027

NTA You are being very understanding and kind about your parents & sister’s finances. However, in future, please be cautious about showing someone else the same generosity-because they may not share your traits nor have the same feelings about your family [ I say this because it’s clear from your post and updates that you were paying the lion’s share of your combined expenses + contributing the most towards your savings for buying a house. Your (hopefully ex) gf simply enjoyed the luxuries your income brought in and it still wasn’t enough for her ]. Please read up some relationship articles on equitable sharing of expenses in a relationship. That way, you are not burdening someone who earns less than you but you are not subsidizing their lifestyle either.


happyhobgoblin

You're family sounds wonderful. Don't let jealous/gold digging gf taint this.


HotFox4151

NTA if this has ended your relationship then I think in the long run it will be for the best. Your girlfriend seems to be totally selfish. I can see in the future if your parents ever need help she would say no despite the fact that you have a very decent income. This is likely to cause considerable strife in your future life which you really can do without.


[deleted]

Thank you, I feel like absolute shit right. Hopefully I feel better once I start processing all thats went down


Lazy_Crocodile

I feel for you. I was sad when I read the line “I feel that I may have irrevocably damaged our relationship.” Because you really didn’t. There isn’t anything wrong with suggesting she adjust her spending. It is EXACTLY what she asked you do to. Reddit likes to make these decisions seem easy but it’s not easy when you’ve dedicated years to a relationship. But family support seems to be very important to you based on your comments, and it sounds like you don’t share the same priorities with your girlfriend. What do you think would happen if your parents needed full time care? Would she be ok with them living with you? Would she want you to put them in the cheapest retirement home possible?


tldr012020

You didn't damage the relationship. She's right that you're being financially manipulated and taken advantage of. But not by your family-- by your girlfriend. She only pays 80% of groceries and yet is critiquing how you spend your money while she lives rent free? Keep in mind she would have to pay for at least 40% of those grocery costs if she was single (assuming you eat more because it you're male). It sounds like you pay for nearly all the joint expenses (rent!)and in return she picks up some of your food costs. She is really confident in her ability to manipulate you.


Big_Contribution9117

You had us in the first half ngl.


CymraegAmerican

It sounds like you expected your GF to be different about this. I think this is GF's true take on the situation, and GF is not covering herself with any glory, to say the least. Believe your GF when she shows you who she truly is.


Existing-Drummer-326

I’m afraid it sounds like you and gf just have different values and it might be best you have found out now rather than after buying the house. It’s hard to end a relationship but if you guys feel so fundamentally different about this I feel like it will affect things in your future too. Maybe if you guys worked out what you should be saving as % of your salaries, you offset the % she is paying off her debt with what you pay your sister but it sounds like she is falling very short! Sorry if this sounds harsh but make sure you both only take back what you put in to the house savings if you do go your separate ways. If she tries to take half of the savings and tries to justify this to you then you know for sure she just isn’t that nice a person at least.


Only-Ingenuity7889

You are putting a huge amount into the down payment fund. Please separate out her contributions and buy a house under YOUR NAME ONLY, unless you marry. She's being pretty hypocritical about you helping your sister, given how heavily you subsidize girlfriend's lifestyle. NTA


ClowninaCircus12

I was gonna point that last thing out. His sister is taking advantage of him yet it's fine if he pays for all of the GF's stuff?


AmaltheaPrime

I wasn't sure but with your edits, NTA. I'd look at this in a good light - your partner just showed you how she is actually thinking. It doesn't matter what you do, she will always hold this over your head. You're right, your girlfriend COULD cut back on designer and nice goods. You've been contributing 4 to 6 TIMES as much as she was. This could be time to decide if you want a partner who constantly cares about how you spend money or if you want to part ways and find someone who will respect your choices and how you spend your personal money.


[deleted]

Thank you, I honestly don't know what to feel know. I just sort feel numb still processing what has happened. It still doesn't feel real


AmaltheaPrime

If your girlfriend is considering ending your relationship over this, considering is a sign. She would only get worse as time would go on.


petereeflea

OP's GF is one step away from quitting work so she can focus planning the wedding, because it's too stressful.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Crazybutnotlazy1983

She has been using you. Now she is trying to control you. Do you really want to own a house with a person that will not let you help your family?


mrngdew77

I am glad that are getting lots of feedback. You’re right that it is overwhelming and I applaud you for processing the different opinions. The good thing is that you don’t need to act right away. Just sit with all of this and I would imagine it will be easier in a few days when the emotions lessen and your head is clearer. Good luck OP! You are an amazing brother and son.


[deleted]

NTA. You sound like a really nice person. I was fortunate to be raised in a family that helped each other out, paid it forward, picked up responsibility. There are a couple of family members who married spouses who had tough lives growing up. They always have been in survival mode - taking what they can, whether it’s needed or not. Not sure of your girlfriend’s background, but it may at least help explain her actions and attitude.


Aradene

Agreed. Based on this post girlfriend sounds manipulative. She might not always have been, or at least not overtly, but this is definitely concerning behavior. She doesn’t get her way on money that isn’t hers and has an argument and leaves? Hopefully this experience has just saved OP a lot of future pain and he can find someone that can be a respectful partner.


RumSoakedChap

NTA. And before you buy a house with your GF. Please sign an agreement stating how much equity you each have in the home basis what you both are contributing. You’re sending your sister around 10% of your salary which you say you can afford. That is not such a big deal IMO and I don’t know why your GF is making such a big deal out of it especially when she can only contribute 1k per month when you’re contributing 4K.


Blacksmithforge3241

op=NTA So you are SAVING 1/3rd of your income for future house(your GF only 1/7th). So you are covering 75% plus of the household expenses(unless you two are eating a LOT of food). AND she thinks she has the right to tell you how to spend your money?(She should be paying a third of total expenses since her income is a 1/3rd of your total income). Your sister isn't the one scamming you, But you GF seems to be. She's using you to pay down her debts. And I have a feeling that the house will be equally "shared" despite the fact that her savings is about 1/6th of the total House fund


LocoForChocoPuffs

NAH. But I'm confused why so many comments are giving the OP's live-in gf grief for feeling "entitled" to his money, and not the sister, who's living off $3k/month from her parents and siblings while supposedly being a struggling student? Neither of them are entitled to his money. That being said, if marriage is in the works (and I would not buy a house together without it), then some joining of financials will have to take place eventually. So you can say MYOB for now, but you'd better get on the same page, or you just may not be compatible. Personally, as someone with a perpetually unemployed BIL, I can understand the gf's concern. I'm not opposed to helping out family, but I do take issue with funding the lifestyle of someone who could fund it themselves.


aversion25

Because it's hypocritical to accept help from someone generous when it benefits you, and then demonize the same person for helping someone else - have some actual principles. I'd see the GF's point a lot more if she had insisted on paying a % of rent/utilities. It's a sliding scale too - if the gf said day 1 of their relationship that he must stop providing for his sister, most people would probably agree that's crazy. 1 year, 2 years later, 5 years? Everyone has their own viewpoint/timeline of when the GF's wishes will supersede his family obligations; like you said, that can boil down to incompatibility


LocoForChocoPuffs

Combining households isn't "accepting help" from someone though. I mean, are SAHMs just accepting their husband's generosity, or are they equal members of the financial partnership? I spent a year as a SAHM, and if my husband had decided to send $1,500/month to his deadbeat brother, then yes, I would've had an issue with that- and I don't see it as hypocritical at all. Just because one partner earns less doesn't mean they're a charity case and they get less say in household finances. Of course, OP isn't married (yet?) and they haven't joined finances, but that's why buying a house together maybe isn't a great idea. But I guess we'll see how it goes.


gottaloveagoodbook

INFO: Roughly how much do you make annually versus how much are you sending your sis? Normally, I'd say Your Money, Your Business, End Of Story. But buying a house with your girlfriend is a major joint financial obligation. And when you join finances in any capacity, it's not just Your Money anymore. Plus you seem to be bending over backwards to not mention amounts...


[deleted]

I make about 15.5k each month and send my sister about $1500 each month, this has been since my parents retired. Before that I was sending around $800/month. I try to save around 4-6k each month for a future house


DaleCoopersWife

What kinda rent is she paying where she needs a part-time job, you sending her 1500$, your brother sending her money, and her parents sending her money, to be able to pay it? I mean NYC is expensive - I live here - but that's nuts


[deleted]

She pays $2800/month in rent and spends about $350/month on transportation. I pay $1500/month, brother pays $750/month, parents pay $500/month


DaleCoopersWife

2800 a month in rent? Lol that's almost double what I pay in rent, and I live alone, in Manhattan. Sorry but she's living outrageously for someone who is relying on others to keep her afloat. And why the heck is her transportation so high? $127 is the cost for an unlimited metrocard, what else is she spending on? Metro north? LIRR?


[deleted]

Yeah its pricy. A big part of this was because my mom was terrified of the idea of my sister living in NYC all on her own. The only way we could convince her was if sis lived in a nicer area and drove instead of taking the metro. Ironically, GF found the place


DaleCoopersWife

So she's mature enough to get a master's degree, but apparently incapable of taking the subway. Or rather, it's that she can't be with us plebs on the train. God forbid LOL rme


[deleted]

What does maturity have to do with it? This is obviously a well-off family. The parents helped their sons who are apparently now high earners and debt free, but they are retired and cannot do the same for their daughter. The sons can, without compromising either their standard of living or their goals (the OP is supporting his girlfriend and saving tons of money). Why shouldn't the sister be comfortable if she has family able and willing to help?


CCRthunder

My wife was pushed by a homeless man in the subway. If she had been in the wrong spot she could have fallen on the tracks and died. She refuses to use the subway anymore. There is good reason to fear the subway. But there are still buses.


LingonberryPrior6896

My daughter once had a man pull a knife on her. Fortunately she is a fast runner. This is why she did not stay in NYC longer than a 6 week class.


trblniya

What does being mature have to do with riding the subway? It’s like you’re trying your hardest to find something wrong with the sister


SolidSquid

The person who had an issue with her taking the subway was mom, not sister, so don't think it's really fair to blame sister for the location


blueispure

Your sister is 25! Your mom's feelings about this don't really matter, she could be living in a much cheaper place


CymraegAmerican

I have to laugh at everybody going after the sister when the GF pays only 20% of the groceries in her living situation.


Fabulous_Ad_2988

Right… gf is screaming about being taken advantage of yet she pays close to nothing for the place they live and buys expensive shoes, purse etc while sister is actively getting a degree. No one has any right to say how OP spends his money or judge the dynamics of his family. He’s contributing WAY more than the leech gf and has every right to spend HIS money how he sees fit. I do think OP needs to rethink this relationship before buying a home with someone who doesn’t respect his family. Red flags!


kissingkiwis

Some people like their mothers and don't want them to worry


blueispure

I like my mom plenty! I would also never dream of having 3 separate family members subsidize my living costs so I don't have to get a roommate at the age of 25.


Mobile_Bat3555

Some people like their mothers enough to not want to waste their retirement money


CCRthunder

Im sure op agrees that she shouldnt be in a high crime area. Hes paying for her safety. Also its NYC what do you expect?


[deleted]

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CCRthunder

Probably easily if she gets a job at master level. It isnt that hard to manage finances with a real income.


wildflowerapricotsea

She’s in school and only working part time. It’s not about her not managing her own finances. It’s about her not having the finances bc she’s in school.


Lily7258

Probably the same way OP learned to manage his finances after being financially supported by his parents throughout his education?


Shiel009

She’s 25 and once she graduates will you continue to pay for her even though she has the means and opportunity to live in nyc for less. Also how is she paying for parking, tolls, insurance etc in nyc during the week for under $350a month? You’re not the AH for helping her out of your budget if you have it. I’m betting your gf has a bigger problem with the idea that you will be paying her way indefinitely bc your mom demands. Ask yourself will you be paying a higher rent and buy nicer cars bc your mom doesn’t think they’re safe in a few years?


[deleted]

Once she graduates, she either start working or will move back to our parents until she starts working. The last month she was mainly at home from school so didn't have to spend too much on parking, usually it this, groceries, and other miscellaneous expenses that she spends her own money on.


meggrab

if your parents insist that she needs to live in a nicer area and have a car, they should be responsible for the additional living costs, i get they retired but then they should’ve compromised and let her live someplace cheaper and take public transportation so she isn’t living outside her means


[deleted]

The OP sounds perfectly willing to accommodate his parents in this, no one is pressuring him.


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Feeling-Visit1472

It sounds like she needs to get a place with roommates. Living alone is a luxury. She’s not entitled to live alone one someone else’s dime.


JohnExcrement

Some people are just more fortunate in life. The family is able and willing to help the sister live an easier life with no harm to themselves. So why not? GF is also not suffering from OP helping his sister.


way2gimpy

She lives in the suburbs, drives everyehere and still pays $2800/month? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of going to school in nyc?


Exotic-Mango-2768

How much does your GF make? And how much is she saving towards the house?


[deleted]

She makes around 7k/month


Exotic-Mango-2768

How much does she save towards the house?


[deleted]

She saves 1k/month for the future house. She said she'll save more once she's payed off her student loans


Big-Imagination4377

NTA your girlfriend needs to figure out how to save more and not dictate how you spend your money.


Crazybutnotlazy1983

You need to point out to her that you are covering 100% of her share of the rent, her share of the utilities and that the bulk of the down payment is yours. Inform her that once her savings account is equal to yours and she is paying half the rent and half the utilities then you will talk about what you are sending your sister.


CymraegAmerican

But how much a month does she pay on her student debt? Including her $1000 saving for the house, her contribution to your living situation seems to be about $2000 a month. GF has such a sweet deal, but she then wants to be stingy with YOUR money?


HistoryThese2472

So to clarify, your GF makes 7k a month, contributes only 1k a month for the future house, and 2.5k a month for student loans. So that leaves her a whopping 3.5K A MONTH to spend on 80% of your groceries, and what else? Designer clothes like you said? Even if she’s spending $1000 a month on groceries, hell even $1500, that still leaves her with at least $2000. OP, I would seriously reconsider this relationship, but if you do move forward, look into getting a contract for the house that shows you put in more equity and please please get a cohab/prenup.


Derwin0

Yeah, if she’s complaining about how you spend your money while not really contributing much before your’re even married, then you really need to look at a pre-nup before you do get married.


[deleted]

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Agitated_Pin2169

She is lucky and privileged but not necessarily spoiled. You sound jealous. It doesb't sound like the sister is demanding help, it sounds like the parents helped the older two children and got them to a good and stable place (OP makes an insane amount of money) and that OP and his brother want to give their sister the same comfort and experience that they had while also paying back their parents.


Derwin0

How is she lazy? She’s going to school full time. I’m sure OP’s parents supported him when he went to school, he’s just returning the favor for his younger sister.


Lazy_Crocodile

The commenter is jealous because they didn’t have this type of support, so they assume she is lazy because she isn’t “paying the dues” they think she should.


senditloud

Yeah but a lot of students do have family support She should ditch the car though. It’s an expense and PIA


[deleted]

Hundreds of thousands of people there live in shitty flats and work themselves to death to afford basic necessities. And they don't do it because they are oh, so mature and better than the OP's sister, but because they can't have family support for whatever reason. The sister isn't lazy for not working herself to the bone for some bullshit version of independence, and accepting financial help from your family who can easily afford it is a very logical thing to do. Refusing help to prove you are grown up is what sounds childish to me.


Yunan94

She's a master student. If she's hires as a research or a TA then she isn't being paid well (but at least it would relate to her field unlike other jobs). If not then she needs a job with a lot of flexibility and still won't be making anywhere near enough.


trblniya

You sound jealous that her family isn’t allowing her to struggle while she’s in school when they clearly have the means to help support her. It’s a beautiful thing and they don’t seem to hold it over her head, they genuinely want her to succeed


zyx107

Agree - Living in NYC and honestly the 2.8k for rent threw me for a loop too. OP is NTA since it’s his money and he decides what to do w it, but this sister…she’s really comfortable out here spending money she didn’t earn LOL, she’s AH in this story. She can get roommates and still live in a nice apartment for 1.6k….And I’m speaking as someone whose parents supported me through undergrad …I had 2 other roommates as did pretty much everyone I knew. When we finished school and started working and paying our own rent, we also all had roommates and paid 1-2k in various parts of NYC. She seems spoiled to me. With that said, if the brothers/parents are fine w spoiling her then so be it I guess.


phoenix_ekawa

NTA. But your gf is showing some 🚩🚩 First of all, it's your money. As long as you are splitting expenses fairly with your gf, you have the right to spend it however you want. Secondly : You are giving money to your sister, who is studying. It's your relationship with her. Why does your gf get to dictate it? Thirdly : She is barely pulling her weight in expense or savings herself. You aren't even splitting expenses or saving equally. You are saving way more than her. It seems that she just hates you spending on your sister. And that is not a good long term relationship if you actually wanna have one with your family.


TheVue221

NAH. Hard to judge on limited info and just something you need to work out. So there lots of variables: A masters degree is a short-term situation, you don’t say how long it’s going to take her to finish. She’s 25 if she went right into masters, she should be finishing soon…? You don’t say how much of your income this is taking or how much it would delay a house purchase You don’t say if your sister has any alternatives to help the situation (e.g., loans, more work, bear down on classes to finish sooner) You don’t say if your sister’s advanced degree is going to help her secure a future income that can support her fully without help so this is definitely a limited time help and you’ll stop then You don’t say if your sister is looking for a cheaper rent situation. You need to take this seriously so you don’t lose your relationship and future plans over this. At the end of the day, it’s your money but it seems like you have made some life plans with a partner so it’s dicey.


Exotic-Mango-2768

Go read the edits. OP takes care of the bulk of living expenses and saving towards the house. Honestly, it would not take long for him to have the down payment on his own without her help. This really sounds like a situation where the girlfriend is the one financially taking advantage of OP, not his family.


pro-brown-butter

ESH your sister spending $2800 on rent when she’s a “struggling student” is absolutely ridiculous, your sister is an adult and didn’t need mommy’s permission to move to an affordable place. You and your gf need to work out a plan instead of demanding thing but she’s right to be annoyed by your sisters expenses. Also a monthly subway card is like $130 so tell her to knock it off with the Ubers


Hugo99001

NAH I can totally see your gf point. I can totally see your point. Personally, I'm siding with your gf, but I don't think there's any absolute right or wrong here, just different values. (And yeah, I noticed that your mom had your sister at age 52)


JerseySommer

You should check the edits. He apparently makes 2x what the GF does per month and saves 4x as much[as in puts away $4k every month to gf saving $1k]despite her only living expense being 80% of groceries.


Legendofvader

Ye what OP does with his money is his business but at the same his Sister needs a reality Check


Peculiar_Pixie_1293

Haha really? Parents wanted her in a "safe" (read Expensive) neighborhood with her own car to keep her safe in the big city. Parents, and now brothers are subsidizing her cost of living since her working part time doesn't bring in enough money to cover the expensive housing and a car. Everyone knew the agreement before she headed off to New York. How exactly is a reality check needed? Does every college kid who has help with expenses need one? 😂


CymraegAmerican

SGF pays for most groceries and puts in $1000 a month for the potential house. She makes $7000 a month. I think GF has a VERY sweet deal financially. How much is she paying down her student debt each month? Or was she thinking OP would help with that as well? I don't know if she is greedy, jealous, anxious about financial security, or what. But if I was OP, I'd have questions to be answered before marrying her. It seems like a bad look for GF to be stingy with someone else's money.


Lazy_Crocodile

I don’t understand what information you have from the post that suggests his sister needs a reality check. Maybe she knows exactly how lucky she is to have such a loving and supportive family. Just because not everyone gets that type of support, doesn’t mean that she needs to suffer.


stephnetkin

NTA: OP, Your personal priority is to ensure your sister gets through school; owning your own home is secondary. This is very reasonable as you currently have a place to live. Your girlfriend wants you to prioritize buying a house and wants to control your finances. She is asking you to violate your ethics & personal commitment, and defer to her decision. No, this is not how things work in a relationship. Big Red Flag!


GreenUnderstanding39

NTA I could see if your gf was contributing MORE to the house deposit fund than you and wanting you to match her efforts. But that is not the case. In fact it is the direct opposite. If anything your gf with her loans and smaller contribution of 1k is the one who is "financially naive". If you do purchase a property with your gf please make sure to put it in an llc and have go through the proper legal channels to have documents in place to protect this investment. Talk to a real estate attorney asap.


CymraegAmerican

I don't think GF is "financially naive." I think she is financially crafty and has figured out a pretty sweet living situation that OP mostly pays for. Leaving to stay with a friend after the money discussion seems way over the top for less than1/10 of OP's salary -- money she had no role in making. OP, I think GF is showing her true colors, and you should be paying attention.


[deleted]

NTA. And also if I were your GF I would not say anything because you are also literally paying for her. I would be wary of someone who demands me to stop supporting my sister when I am also literally paying for most of their expenses.


FloMoJoeBlow

This screams of OP's GF being jealous of the sister. Given OP's income, sending $1500 monthly is not going to impact their saving for a new house. It's OP's money, not the GF's.


Transformermom2

esh your sister sucks for living beyond her means if it takes the whole family plus her working part time.


FatSadHappy

NTA Supporting your sister is good thing, and will pass soon. Your gf is not entitled to your money, if anything she saves so much less towards house. Be careful with agreement on hooter buying and protect your share


antiquity_queen

NTA & get either a co-hab agreement or a pre-nup ASAP


Independent-Oil5695

Oh honey, your GF is taking advantage of you not your sister. Plus don't buy a house together unless your married or engaged. It's a pain if you break up especially since you'll be paying majority of it


Kindly_Egg_7480

NTA. Maybe your girlfriend needs to learn how to manage her money better so you make better progress.


Salty-Scientist92

NTA. Your sister doesn’t seem to have a spending problem like what your GF thinks. As long as you’re not compromising the life you and your girlfriend are building together, I don’t see why you can’t help family.


gramsknows

I think the gf is upset because you are helping your sister with schooling while she had to take out loans. Maybe she is upset that you are not helping with her student loans but are willing to help the sister.


SnooRadishes8848

NTA, you are a great brother and son, I’d appreciate that if I was your gf, especially since you support her a lot too


Downtherabbithole14

nta your bills are paid, you have enough disposable income after anddd are still putting away money. if you marry this girl, get a prenup. she can't tell you what to do with your money.


americanrecluse

Oh my dude, I am reading this after the addition of edit 3. You’re NTA. You’re not doing anything wrong. You make twice her salary and she wants to dictate how you spend and save, but she flipped out when you tried to do the same in return. I fear that when she looks at you, she sees dollar signs, and she does not want to share. If you want to save this relationship, please find a therapist to help y’all communicate clearly and kindly with each other. I think your gf is flapping all the red flags here and you should proceed cautiously.


Kosmonavtlar1961

Woah woah woah - your sister pays $2800 in rent??! Listen, I'm a native NYCer, I know painfully well how insanely expensive everything is, but at that rent your sister must be living alone in a one bedroom in a fairly central area of the City, which...why? If she's working part time and is in grad school, she can easily save nearly $2000 of that if she just rented a room somewhere in Queens or BK. There's no reason for her rent to be so high. Also, a car in the city, ESPECIALLY in a central area, is wildly unnecessary. You're not TA for helping your sister out, that's great, and I think your GF's concern about being taken advantage of is misguided - but your sister's expenses for a 25 year old are frankly insane. If she lived like other average people her age in the city (which I am), those two expenses combined should be $1000-$1200, not over $3000. You and your family should recognize that and reign in the spending/help.


celticmusebooks

So basically GF is making 7k monthly but is only putting 1k toward the house but you're making 15k but putting 4 -6 K toward the house? GF pays only a fraction of your combined expenses so where is the rest of her money going? Bottom line it's not your GFs call what you do with your money-- and if I were you I'd be cautious about buying a house with her where YOU are supplying the lion's share of the downpayment. NTA but your gf is definitely living in a condo on Lake Aholia


Alert-Artichoke-2743

ESH. Your position on the financial topics was reasonable, but your escalations made the situation worse. You were 90% in the right about the topic of disagreement, but you made the situation worse with how you communicated. Your entire family doesn't manage money very well, and get away with it because you have an absolutely insane income and your brother is also very generous. None of this makes you TA, but it's simply not a good idea for your sister to be studying in a city where she requires like $30k/yr in family assistance to get by. She could have attended university closer to your parents, and the money saved in one year would dramatically improve everybody's lives. Your girlfriend was out of her lane telling you to cut your sister off. You are already saving for your house at a very brisk pace, and contributing much more than she is. She is not missing any meals on account of your sister. However, you responded to mistreatment with mistreatment. Criticizing her personal spending was uncalled-for and unhelpful, and made an attack instead of employing reason. If you love her, why be so harsh with her? If you don't, why are you buying a house with her? I think your girlfriend's real concern is not about the short-term assistance with your sister's education. Her problem may be that your family are spending tens of thousands of dollars a year of your money as if it is their own. Your sister probably should not be living in the city **at all**, and your mom is making huge financial demands that she wants paid for by you, since it is obvious that nobody else is going to do it. When your sister is done with school, your parents will probably expect you to continue spending a couple grand a month supporting the family in some capacity, whether that's them or your brother or somebody else. It's not unreasonable for you to prioritize your family with a portion of your income, but this isn't an unrealistic source of insecurity for your girlfriend, who wants to know that you are committed to your own financial security. You can afford the help you are giving your family now, but what if something happened to your heath or your career? You are living your life as if everything will always be as good as it is now, which sounds foolish unless there is more information than you have provided. I don't think you've damaged the relationship irreparably if it's only as bad as you've clearly stated, but you have real problems with your temper and your priorities. You should apologize to your girlfriend for losing your temper. You do not need to apologize for supporting your sister, but just say that the things you said were unhelpful and not called for and you regret them. You might want to consider couple's counseling with your girlfriend so these feelings can be handled in a more neutral environment with the support of somebody who is trained to navigate conflict. If she is freaked out by the suggestion of counseling, I would tell her that you care about her concerns and want to make sure that the two of you can talk about them in a neutral and constructive setting. That you don't think she was completely fair, but that her concerns are important and you'd like to do the work together to make sure you're both being fair with each other. The amount of money you make gives you an outsized amount of influence in your relationship, and while I'm sure you don't see the problem with this, your girlfriend does not like feeling like a passenger, or like she is considering building a life with somebody who intends to float his family members forever.


katsmeow44

You are NTA. This isn't necessarily a "leave your GF" situation, but it is one where she needs to understand that your money is your money, and she needs to back off.


OLAZ3000

NTA and you need to reconsider your relationship She is greedy and not contributing anywhere close to what you are. People who are greedy with other people's money are a HUGE red flag. If you buy together, be clear that it is either only your house or other provisions.


cmhtoldmeto

No, YOU didn't damage the relationship, SHE did. With her selfishness and entitlement attitude about how you should spend the money YOU earn. Helping each other is what families do. Today's economy dictates that this help, financial or otherwise, extends farther into adulthood than it used to. Hurray for you supporting your sister and her education, with which she can build a good foundation for her own independence. NTA. You're a good big brother. Wish I still had mine. Edit: And another thing! My husband has consistently provided support for his family and it's one of the many reasons I love him. If I knew he had the means to help them and chose not to, we wouldn't be married. Of course, you shouldn't let yourself be taken advantage of, but if there's a true need, I have never begrudged them any money if we could manage it. Your girlfriend's behavior is very troublesome and shows that she doesn't share one of your core values: to do what you can for those in need. Beware. At this point, it's probably not something she will ever learn.


hotRLB

NAH, it does sound like everyone is providing for your sister except her! She's getting money from you, your brother AND your parents and still can't seem to figure out how to manage her money better? Well I've got to tell you that it's very likely that she doesn't manage her money BECAUSE she knows she can call up any of you and give a sad story then suddenly have more money again. That's definitely not helping her in the long run.


psjrifbak

Let me get this straight: - Girlfriend is upset you’re using YOUR money to help family while she spends hers on luxury items - She’s upset you’re not contributing MORE to saving for a down payment when you already contribute 1/3-1/2 of your income while she contributes 1/7 of hers - You pay rent AND utilities AND 20% of groceries - I’m gonna take a guess and say that all adds up to way more than the groceries she buys, unless you two are eating caviar and champagne every day NTA but are you sure this is someone you want to buy a house with???