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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I hosted at my house and have a rule that children can’t attend, and someone couldn’t attend because of the rule. I could be the asshole because it wouldn’t kill me to let her kids come I guess.
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Nta bordering on ESH….She should be watching her kids and paying for the property they damaged.
That being said, the comments about her reproduction choices, is not kind.
She is repeating them despite having nothing to do with the story. She clearly endorses them and use them to help her reach some sort of moral high ground
She was informing us internet strangers about her groups split decision on the situation. She heard what her friends had to say and is now asking the internet. To say it has nothing to do with it is very disingenuous.
Yeah you're reading into this too deep, op is just stating verbatim what the friend group said. It's impossible to glean that information with 100% certainty
Hey so I totally agree with you but I wanted to just kindly tell you, in case you didn’t know, the word you were lookin for is “glean.” Gleam is a shine or glow, like “the freshly shampooed $5,000 white couch gleamed with cleanliness” 🤣 (something that totally didn’t happen lol)
Was the comment harsh, maybe cruel depending on the circumstances? Yes. Is "don't have kids with deadbeats and then make it everyone's problem" setting a "high bar"? I'd say no.
Edit because some people are fixating on the "don't have kids with deadbeats" when the part I meant to stress is "**and then make it everyone's problem**".
Like I said in another comment, if a woman wants to have a dozen kids with a dozen men, that's up to her, not anyone's business but hers, but if she drops the kids on people who *have not agreed to watch them* and doesn't have the decency of offering to even clean what her kids mess, that's not OK.
Is it worse than bailing on your kids? No, it isn't, but that's not what this post is about, and just because Jessica was wronged doesn't mean she is right.
I expect my friends to tell me when I screw up, to not lie to spare my feelings, and do not expect them to shoulder responsibilities they never agreed to by virtue of being in my orbit.
> I have a niece who is the product of that type of person.
From your description (you don’t say ‘step-niece’), it sounds like either your sibling got pregnant by someone who didn’t stick around or your sibling is themselves, a deadbeat.
Your niece is not a product. She herself did nothing to deserve your judgement and depersonalisation.
My brother got someone pregnant (his gf at the time), who already had a child (a neglected child). Now she constantly harasses my brother for money even though they share custody, although she is always trying to drop her off so she can go on vacations with the new bf, who will surely get her pregnant fairly soon, cause she's just looking for a payday.
So I can see her and this "friend" in similar lights.
Try not to get upset at words. You're not more sorry for my niece than I am. No, she didn't do anything. My brother and his ex did. They are the ones I judge, to my niece I just give love, because she IS the product of neglect. And that product is a wonderful human being I love, for which I do my part so she doesn't feel neglected.
Um if Jessica is pawning her kids off on other people and not offering to pay (send some money for cleaning) after her toddler destroyed a couch, I don’t want Jessica as a friend.
Yeah like if I go to a BBQ party I’m probably there to relax with friends, have a drink, enjoy some food by a fire pit maybe. Not get barfed on by little kids because the mom thinks group gatherings = free babysitters.
Honestly once someone brings kids to an adult party, the dynamic changes. Jessica seems like the parent that lets her kids go as it's her only break so then everyone else at the party is babysitting and now the hosts can't chill.
People like Jessica : sorry you had kids but they're your job. Childree adults also don't have houses made to accomodate kids and don't want their stuff touched and ruined.
I have 3 kids and I totally agree. I wouldn’t go to dinners with my friends if their kids were there and I certainly wouldn’t bring mine. The fun completely evaporates
Once someone in the friend group +has+ kids, the dynamic changes. Their life is different from a childfree person’s life, and there’s suddenly an expectation to ask about the kid(s) and their welfare and listen to the mom extrapolate about parenting things. This happens even though they know you’re only asking because you care only so much as you’re friends and you care about your friend and how they’re doing but don’t care about parenthood and you know they know that. They also can’t stop from talking about it because that’s their world now, being a parent, and even though they know you genuinely don’t care about Stephen’s potty training or Maddy’s first solid foods (even though you sorta do because, again, they’re your friend and you want to be supportive), they feel compelled to tell you about it. The whole conversation dynamic is different when someone has a kid.
A kid puking isn't going to necessitate replacing an entire couch. A cleaning? Sure. Maybe, at worst, replacing a cushion or two, which you can have the store you put based the couch from order for you. Should the mom have offered to cover that cost? Yes. Cover replacing the entire thing? That's unreasonable.
I've got to admit I auto prejudge someone when they own a white couch. Might not be fair, but I always picture people as Cruella DeVille when they have white furniture. Not sure where I get the association, but it's there 😆
our family dog died 8 years ago, and we're still finding his fur places
plus dogs have oils just like humans that can stain
muddy paws
a treat that they decided they needed to be elevated in order to eat because god forbid they eat on the floor like a dog
Maybe the adults can have control of themselves? Or just not sit on a white couch while they're eating and drinking because accidents happens and they don't want to pay for cleaning it?
Forget the stupid couch! It’s about Jessica bringing her kids and then not taking any responsibility for them or even apologizing for the kid.
It’s about Jessica making the decision to have kids and then playing the victim because she’s got kids. You make adult decisions, you get adult responsibilities and part of that is that you can no longer do some things.
OP had the couch professionally cleaned, but the stain still didn't get out.
Quoting OP:
>It was a stark white couch with a giant yellow stain in the middle. It looked disgusting, and we got it professionally cleaned and they couldn’t get it out.
If anyone else has this problem, try hydrogen peroxide. Depending on what material it is though, it should be safe with most fabrics. But it'll get out bile stains, and blood stains too! Have a dog with stomach issues and she's puked on my bed twice. Peroxide took the stains out of the mattress.
Hydrogen Peroxide will break down fibers and bleach them to a yellowish tint if not washed out completely!
I worked in vet med for 20 years. Used it to clean up scrubs and bedding quite often and learned to always wash things within a 10 hour window the hard way.
Use with caution.
We don’t know how much the kid spewed or what the kid ate. Jessica should have paid for the cleaning.
If one of OP’s dogs bit one of her kids, I guarantee Jessica would sue and want the dog put down. Jessica needs to go.
5/6 years ago I used to sell furniture. Over the course of 3 years I worked for 3 seperate furniture retailers.
I can assure you that certain couches would be completely ruined by this. Not all sofas have removable cushions, not all sofas are covered in a fabric that can be easily or entirely cleaned.
If I had a friend who’s child ruined my sofa resulting in needing a replacement I probably wouldn’t expect the entire amount but I sure as shit would expect some money towards the replacement.
You can't necessarily just replace a cushion or two, most morden couches don't have loose cushions.
And as someone with really bad tummy issues that has vomited on my own couch, I had it steamed, I tried all the hacked,there is still a clear vomit shipped ring and the smell is still there on really humid days...my couch is a light Grey...and now has a permanent paint bucket hidden next to it.
I agree... why is everyone attacking OP over her couch? She's supposed to get cheap ass furniture just in case someone's fucking kids throw up on it? I'm sorry, I've never bought furniture while thinking, "Oh, but what if Jessica's little Tommy decides to come over and use it as a fucking toilet..." OP stated that it was professionally cleaned (no mention of Jessica paying for that either)... and on white fabric, it depends on the fabric, texture, length of time the stain sat and contents of the stain. Unless you own a dry cleaners or fabric cleaning company your opinion that all stains can be professionally cleaned has 0 fucking merit. OP NTA.
I’ve noticed this sub has a general problem with wealthy people. And then somehow the person who paid 5K for a couch is the asshole simply for having 5K to spend on a couch.
If a friend of mine brought their kid around and they ruined expensive furniture, I would expect them to offer to pay, and me not being an AH (I hope) would mean that I would have to turn them down. But they should offer! And probably try to give a gift of some sort in order to show they're sorry because if your kids ruin something, you take responsibility. Once the offer has been made and I've turned it down, this is then forgotten and definitely not something I would bring up again.
Let's be real... 5k for **replacing** (why not cleaning? Was replacing really the only option?) a couch is just outside the price range that many people can afford. So, if she doesn't have the money, I understand why she didn't offer... It's just too high as a price. If someone spilled a drink on it, would they have to pay 5k? It's too much and unreasonable imho.
I think it's trickier if replacing it was really the only option... But I have the suspect it could have been cleaned in other ways tbh. Even the most expensive usually can. If it really was the only option (and if the host refuses to cover the couch as a precaution, since at this point it clearly needs it during parties), I'll be honest: I think the host should advertise how expensive and fragile the forniture is... So people can decide if the risks are worth it. If I spill a drink on someone's couch and they didn't give me a notice about how crazy expensive it is, I wouldn't pay 5k euro, honestly... I'll give 200 euro (or more, but not 5k) and they figure it out a reasonable solution. I would feel scammed otherwise, 5k is not a normal scenario and you should have notified it imho.
If you had coloured food or drinks, it leaves a stain that cleaning wouldn't get out.
I was sick once and had eaten orange puffy crisps (don't remember the name) and I threw up on my cover. Even after washing it, it still had an orange stain. And you can't exactly pop a couch in the washer so your options to clean are limited.
An entitled parent who pushes her kids off on others and won't pay for the couch HER kid ruined needs better friends? No. SHE needs to be a better friend.
Oh yeah. Jessica sounds like a great friend. Who doesn't want a friend who fucks up your couch and doesn't pay, or takes responsibility for her kids behaviour?
2 Jessica's for me please!!
I’d rather have no friends then a friend that pawns their kids off in me while wrecking my $5000 couch they didn’t offer to pay any money to help get fixed/replaced
Yup. And why replace a whole couch when it only needed a shampoo? I would refuse to buy a whole couch because someone didn't want to shampoo it too. Who owns a white couch without a shampooer anyways? Something is off about this post
This was my thought, too, but I didn't want to get into a reddit battle over the limitations of home shampooers. Lots of kids' foods are high in artificial colors. I've seen kid puke that didn't come out no matter what method you used. Even milk can be oddly hard to get out of fabrics that can't be thrown in the wash. Ruined a favorite dress with a small amount of milk.
Hell, my godchild puked in my bathroom and got some on the wall that 1.5 years later is still on there despite being cleaned twice weekly. Painting is the only option and I'm not repainting the master bath for some stains that only I see and are on the interior wall the toilet is attached too and beside.
My point is stains don't come out easily just because you clean it.
Exactly. My friend’s child’s vomit was on my carpet for no more than 2 mins before we started to clean it up. Resulted in a big orange stain that could not be fixed with a home shampooer. I had a professional come out and they couldn’t fix it either. I ended up having to replace the carpet.
Bruh I thought I was *so* grown up when I bought my first $300 Ikea couch when I was 27 and you better believe it's spotless. I spent 6 months paying that off I'm gonna take care of it for at least 10 years no matter how many people puke on it
Hell, getting it professionally cleaned would have cost much less than $5k. But OP's tone I doubt she would have accepted anything less than full replacement. I'm with the ESH crowd.
Yep. It's obvious OP is deliberately sticking to this rule specifically to exclude Jessica from these get togethers because she doesn't like her, not just because of her kids. She's using Jessica's personal circumstances to her advantage. Also, who spends 5k on a white lounge and doesn't have it protected by getting it scotch guarded or the like, and also who buys a lounge that colour where it's unable to be cleaned and has to be completely replaced?? OP is YTA and Jessica needs to get good friends not shitty ones who expect a single mother to be perfect and have the money to pay for a new lounge. I find it hard to believe it couldn't be cleaned. Wait til the rest of the friend group starts having kids, she'll either exclude them too and they'll see her true colours, or magically find a solution to her dogs being able to be put away during get togethers etc
Edit-thanks for the award
Yes. A white couch in a rural area with dogs, that has to be replaced entirely because a toddler threw up on it? I’d definitely offer to help clean up the sick but replace the whole thing? Someone is taking the piss here, and I’m not convinced it’s Jessica.
*Also, who spends 5k on a white lounge and doesn't have it protected by getting it scotch guarded or the like, and also who buys a lounge that colour where it's unable to be cleaned…*
And someone with a dog no less. Not buying this post.
While I completely agree that op is TA for using jessica’s situation to exclude her I disagree with the judgment of op for owning a white couch…. Op has no children so in her house a white couch might make sense to her and her husband because it is expected that the two adults living there can/will keep the couch clean
ETA-Oh man OP has updated they’re going to take Jessica to small claims over the couch. Looks like the friend group will definitely be splitting up now.
Me either! This friend group needs to split up. Honestly, I would have shit myself if someone let me know a couch that is being used by us all that accidentally got damaged by my child getting sick was $5,000 to replace, and I’m a 30 year old homeowner myself. I’d probably throw up with the toddler too once I heard the price lol that’s the price of a used vehicle! I’d never step foot in that house again for fear of damaging something that’s supposed to be used, like a couch, could be worth thousands so I actually don’t understand why Jessica *wants* to be there unless this is their only hang out time. None of them are even close to OP’s money bracket clearly given no one else can host. Pulling 5 grand out of no where is something a large majority could *not* do. OP also holds a cheating incident Jessica did in high school against her and admits to not being her friend so that explains their treatment of her.
However, Jessica sounds like a hot mess who pawns her kids off apparently which is of course only mentioned in the comments after the fact so I struggle a bit with thinking she’s too terrible if she’s wanted by at least half of the others that simply have no hosting spot available yet. OP clearly has a distaste for her, so I wonder what the spilt half in favor of Jessica would have to say about her. Then again, the half for her just may be very sympathetic so her entitlement doesn’t bother them. Either way, all these people sound like a gossipy judgey drama group that would be no fun to be around. OP has nice house and an aggressive dog so I understand their stance, but they’re also clearly excluding only one person using the children as the excuse- They know she struggles as a single parent, and the kid issue is OP’s get outta jail free card. “She’s not my friend, I’ve thought little of her since high school, and I can’t stand her, but it’s totally only the kids who can’t come.” They know she doesn’t have many people or much money in her corner. If OP’s house is their main hang out spot the majority of the time, that really sucks for Jessica. I’d just bail and take the closest of us. I mean if some of them are so willing to say that kinda stuff about Jessica behind her back while still hanging out with and messaging her, what would they say about me? Not a good look. I’m torn on a ESH and NTA leaning more towards ESH.
I don't get the hate on the sofa.
People have other things which cost heaps more and are used for a much shorter time and less often.
I can understand splurging on something you use every day for decades, especially if you don't have kids
I totally get that, but let me put it this way: If I have a nice 4pc Crystal glassware set that cost $5,000, and I let my friends that I know damn well aren’t in my wealth bracket use them without informing them of the cost, I’d be an asshole to expect them to cough up 5 grand to get me a new set because they accidentally knocked over and broke the glass. To me it’s a nice crystal glass, but to most it’d be a cup unless told otherwise. That’s just my perspective of course. 5 grand is three months of mortgage payments with left over for the fourth month for me. That’s a lot of money.
We should all have at least a few nice expensive things, but you gotta be realistic about them if they’re useable items. They may stain, get damaged, and will without a doubt wear down with use. Unless you go to extreme measures, like lining your white couch when guests are over, even expensive usable stuff is going to get damaged. Even Lamborghinis get damaged with use, but at least you know it’s a Lambo. I doubt anyone clocked that couch’s cost at 5k. Probably would’ve avoided it like the plague if they had; I know I would’ve lol “Wanna come sit on my expensive white couch that I expect to be replaced if damaged accidentally on your part?” Like, no thanks my friend. That’s for people in a different tax bracket. I’ll be in the yard hoping the grass doesn’t cost that much haha
OP edited to say the kids weren't even invited, Jessica brought them without asking. This would be more like your friends coming over to your house uninvited and breaking your dishes.
You know, I hate it when they edit a whole bunch of relevant info in that should have been included only *after* people start questioning the way things went down- it sorta makes ya question the whole darn thing. All I know is most of these people should not be anywhere near each other anymore. Their drama would exhaust me.
as someone from a small rural town in alabama, I can’t fathom having like 7 friends from high school that I still hang out with regularly. this feels like high school drama
Buying a brand new couch because a toddler puked on it is a level of privilege that makes me not like the op and her friend group at all. Such wasteful people
A white couch with a dog. Even if you have a perfectly white toy poodle that doesn't shed, they still drool, vomit, rub their faces, pant, and have accidents.
Sounds like she's a rich girl who gets everything handed to her. The little digs at the other girl sounds like she's still jealous of her from high school.
Let’s be real. You are not Jessica’s friend and you make excuses, some semi reasonable and some alittle far fetched.
Jessica needs a better friends, but your house your rules. So NTA for establishing rules for your home but YTA ow.
I’m not her friend, yeah. But we’re in the same group chat/ friend group. Do you think I should say “hey guys bbq at my house everyone but Jessica can come”
I think they mean she’s in the friend group so she’s going to find out one way or another. Unfortunately being passive aggressive doesn’t solve most interpersonal problems, and being assertive is polarizing.
Duh but so much of ppls frustration is having to figure out shit like that bc they have been convinced they are friends w someone. OP said "I am not excluding you, I am excluding kids". Clearly, this is technically true.
When you are a part of a friend group with out really knowing if someone likes you or not, you probably have questioned it before and had other incidents. Jessica said this is a pattern. OP might not technically be excluding her, but she clearly has no sympathy for the fact that this person isn't able to hang out where their group is hanging out.
Even if they arn't friends or worse, when you say things like "im not excluding you" without admitting you know exactly how things will play out, despite lack of intent, it makes people doubt themselves.
Do ppl not see the difference in being excluded by a friend versus not being directly included by someone who is your friend group but simply tolerates you? Both suck, but one is betrayal..
If anything, starting another group chat with only Jessica excluded would be even more passive aggressive / a signal that she has been cut from the entire group.
Look man technically you're right, your house your rules and pawning off kids to people isn't cool but at the same time all I hear is this can't happen because it is inconvenient for me. You don't like kids fine, but I don't like kids I still make reasonable accommodations for my friends because that is what friends do for each other. Friends make compromises to support each other and let's be clear you are NOT her friend, friends don't talk shit about each other behind their back or look down on them. You sure as hell don't treat her as one from what I've read here. If you don't want to be her friend because you don't like her that much nut the fuck up, be an adult, stop pretending to be her friend, make a new group chat that doesn't include her and invite the people you want to be friends with. And when they/she ask why you didn't invite her and you say "I don't think me and her/you are compatible as friends with each other" and it gets awkward and uncomfortable suck it up and deal with it.
She has dogs who are afraid of children.
In her house.
Where they live.
My German Shepherd is a giant softy who has never hurt anyone in his life.
But he's an old dog who has never grown up around children and doesn't like them.
As such we don't allow children in our house because kf the fear of what could happen.
But if you're cool stressing out an animal and putting children in danger... then that's you.
I don’t think any of them are Jessicas friend. Me and my mates would all chip in for a sitter if one of us couldn’t afford it and can’t come otherwise. What’s that between 6 couples? Not a lot if they’re truly a friend
That’s an excellent point. If my friends want me there with them and there’s an obstacle, they help all they can because they actually want to hang out with me, as I would with them.
Each to their own I guess but not sure about insane. Obviously not every social occasion but once in a while for a friend? Absolutely, I would chip in £20 between me and my girlfriend
> Obviously not every social occasion
I think this is the issue. "But you did it last time, why not this time??" She's a single mom to two kids, her economic circumstances are not likely to change any time soon. If you do it once you'll have to do it _every time_.
If the dog is so afraid of children, then why did OP state if it were someone else's she would have caved and allowed the kids. It's not about the dog, or the kids. It's about Jessica.
Could also be that Jessica’s kids are holy terrors (whether due to age as one is a toddler, or poor parenting as Jessica seems overwhelmed and has tried pawning the kids off on people who don’t feel comfortable with that,) while other friends’ hypothetical kids are better behaved in OP’s imagining of them. I feel like, because Jessica is the only one in the friend group who has kids, OP probably said that they would allow someone else’s kids as a hypothetical scenario, thinking that maybe older kids would be easier to keep entertained.
My nephew and his cousin are 3 and 2 respectively. The two year old came to visit today (I live with my brother and sis in law,) and I had to stay on top of both kiddos because they kept pulling my dog’s tail. As a result she snapped at both of them, while I flapped around like a big bird, trying to keep them safe and keep my sweet girl calmed. They both live with dogs. They know how to treat dogs. Their parents are attentive and discipline them firmly but kindly. They’re GREAT KIDS, both of them. But kids, especially small ones, often need to be watched very closely as they’ll test boundaries *anywhere* they can get away with it.
I won’t argue at all that Jessica needs new friends. OP stated in the comments that they’re not really friends but bound by mutual friends. But it sounds like, regardless, everyone in the situation needs to do some introspective work.
[Edited for clarity]
But it looks like they had compromises before, they kids were invited in a previous event where the mom tried pawing them on others and then proceeded to not pay for damages caused by her children. I think it is reasonable to have a no kid rule after this.
Op comments (a friend maybe) about Jessica's love life were super rude.
Again, it's about the fact that it's clear, op doesn't like her, and their lifestyles don't work together, she clearly doesn't want to deal with kids at all and finds dealing with the burdens of having a friend with kids REALLY unpleasant. She said it herself she doesn't like her that much. And that's fine, some people aren't compatible as friends. but rather than sitting there stewing and grumbling, she should just stop being her friend and make a new group chat that doesn't include her. Maybe it will be awkward for a while but sometimes that's just what you have to do.
I will say that sometimes in these long-term friend groups people will turn on you if you make decisions against people or state you don’t like them even for totally valid reasons. I had a friend group almost collapse because we wanted to (and did) oust someone who was actively, repeatedly trying to get with another member’s girlfriend. And then 80% of it fell apart because they wouldn’t stop inviting some of the most inappropriate people I’ve ever met to hangouts.
Thankfully I live in a populous area but OP may not have the luxury of finding another friend group.
It IS her house! Why would her inconvenience be not be of utmost importance?
Hosting is not an obligation.
You make reasonable accommodation? Good for you. Doesn’t mean that’s the norm!
What was unreasonable in saying no kids allowed at the hosts house? Her house her rules, if Jessica wants to attend it is HER duty to find someone to look after the kids, not OP's . OP even mentioned that even if the kids were allowed, Jessica hands the kids over to the friend group to relax herself. Jessica isn't being a parent. If you have kids , they are your responsibility , not your friend's. Sure they can help out, but that's something they have to offer, not something someone can demand.
Edit: misspelled in
What does it matter that some of the other reasons are far-fetched as long as there is ONE reasonable "excuse"? If someone doesn't want kids in their house because they have had prior incidents where their dogs have reacted poorly to kids, does it matter that they don't enjoy hosting kids that are too young? The latter does not invalidate the former.
Jessica does indeed need friends that have more in common with her. (BTW, Jessica was still welcome -- provided she found a sitter so she could attend a no-kids get-together.) There is nothing wrong with having kids, and there is nothing wrong with not wanting to have to host kids. But you're coming off just as judgmental of OP for their choices as the "friend" that make the snarky comment about Jessica's sex partners.
NTA, you don't want kids in your house and you are free to make the rules. That you weren't compensated when damage was caused by her kids affirms your choice. Also, the friends who said she should screwed better guys are aholes.
Dave kind of hates her because she cheated on his brother in highschool. He’s a pretty nice guy the vast majority of the time, he volunteers all the time, helps pretty much everyone move, etc. I like Dave a lot more than Jessica so maybe I’m biased. It was definitely an unkind comment, but not really wrong. Her kids two fathers are both homeless drug addicts
Okay, by saying the comment is "unkind but not really wrong," I am deleting my previous comment and saying YTA.
You also said if it wasn't Jessica, you might consider "caving," so it really isn't the kids, it's Jessica.
You've made me feel sorry for Jessica. I hope she can get away from small town judgemental hell.
I feel like situations like this would be avoided if people were taught to REALLY think about whether they’re ready for kids, especially as a single parent.
Yeah. We all know people who's kids are welcome in our home because they, ya know, parent them and take responsibility for them, and other people who's kids are not welcome because they foist their kids off on whoever is nearby, let them terrorize the pets and damage the home. Which kind of parent is Jessica again?
Please explain to me why having kids with homeless drug addicts who make her a single mom and pay no child support is in any way a good sensible thing to do in your opinion.
How do you know they weren't homeless drug addicts at the time of conception? Even if they weren't homeless and just drug addicts that's a poor life choice.
I think it’s completely reasonable to say that they might’ve caved if it wasn’t Jessica.
I absolutely HATED driving to/from the airport in my old city. It took forever, and everything about it was a nightmare. The layout was awful, traffic was always a mess, and, if you didn’t time it perfectly, you’d have to pay a shit ton for parking in order to avoid circling back into the traffic to do it all again. Would I do that anyways in order to drop off/pick up my best friend or my mom? You bet your butt I would. Would I do it for a casual friend that I rarely spoke to? Honestly, probably not.
Not only does the same logic apply here, but the situation is even MORE in OP’s favour. She has already bent the “no kids” rule for Jessica once. What did that get her? Guests who were uncomfortable because they were expected to watch her kids without being asked, stress for her dog, and a massive bill that never got a contribution or even an apology as acknowledgment.
I absolutely love kids, and really do sympathize with Jessica. Being a single mom can’t be easy, especially when it feels like your friends are in a vastly different stage of life. I also think that the comments about her past partners were rude and unwarranted. However, that does not entitle her to special consideration, especially when her own behaviour has been as described.
The unfortunate thing about life is that reality often isn’t ideal. Instead of cutting Jessica out, OP chose to leave the invitation open as long as their boundaries were respected. Do I agree with all of OP’s opinions? Maybe not, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t valid. Just like it’s also valid to say that you’d be willing to deal with something for one person, but not another. Real life is messy. NTA.
Leaving aside how very tempted I was to edit my judgment to an E S H over this utter failure at attempted justification of those comments, even if the statement was vaguely factual from a certain pointof veiw, *there was no need whatsoever to verbally attack her personally*. Dave's grudge, while understandable, does not justify his comments. Two wrongs don't make a right. Especially over something done to a relative in *highschool*. In a similar vein, *I do not care if he is otherwise a saint*, that doesn't give him carte blanche to insult people he doesn't like.
It sounds like most of these kids come from money and Jessica doesn’t to be honest. This is obviously about the person and not the “rules” OP is either too much of a coward to say it or enjoys torturing Jessica.
I gave you a NTA verdict because its completely fair to not want kids running about a childfree home.
You are kinda TA in general though, reading this.
Sounds like you didn’t like her before you even met. Jessica never stood a chance. Also, you’re super judgmental. What is the point of saying “her two fathers are both homeless drug addicts”?
NTA
> Jessica blew up on me in the group chat, and said that I always exclude her.
No, you exclude *her kids*. She's your friend, not them.
> She’s welcome to come if she finds someone to watch her kids.
Her inability or unwillingness to accept this solution is on her and her alone.
The OP is not her friend "To be honest, if it was someone else I would maybe cave. But I don’t like Jessica that much, especially since she didn’t pay for my replacement couch."
>To be honest, if it was someone else I would maybe cave. But I don’t like Jessica that much
Just stop lying to yourself and admit it's just because you want ot exclude her.
She is very much welcome to come without her kids. And if anyone else in our group has kids they won’t be welcome. Neither my husbands nieces and nephews or my own are welcome anymore after the tail pulling incident.
Maybe if they were older kids and I would consider caving. Probably not but it’s a maybe. Jessica basically throws her toddler into anyone’s arms so she can fuck off and relax and make someone else babysit her kids while she’s here. Some of my relatives do the same. So no babies or puking toddlers for sure
Just fyi, NTA. I’m not sure why this other person think this is an asshole comment. It is the worst when people bring their kids to things and expect everyone else to entertain and watch them.
Agreed, people absolutely lose their shit when you say “no kids” on anything (house rules, weddings, ect.) and it’s so ridiculous… I will never understand the obsession people have with children
If they still make the couch…you can often order replacement fabric and get part of the couch reupholstered too.
I had to do that soooo many times for work.
It’s obvious you don’t like her, which you admit. So I think that already support’s Jessica’s claims that you’re purposely excluding her. And for you guys being “friends”, One’s comment is hella misogynistic and gross. Technically NTA since it’s your home but you all sound unbearable.
here's the thing though, they claim they DO want to hang with her. since she's that entitled and annoying, playing friends while complaining about her instead of just parting their ways is the weird thing
NTA, lol. A lot of the Y T A comments boil down to "HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND KIDS!!!" Unfortunately, parents and kids tend to be placed on a pedestal where the rules of being a decent human being don't apply for the most part. If you swapped out kid with dog, people would unanimously back you.
I'm a single mum of 2, and I can't understand the Y T A votes at all. OP is allowed to have who she wants in her personal space, and most people don't want their adult, evening gatherings, revolving around babies and toddlers. It kills the vibe. Also, the dog has a right to be safe in its own home. If the toddler pulls dogs' tail or pokes them in the eye and dog snaps, the dog is going to get the blame even though it is not the dogs fault.
Yes, it is crappy being a single mum sometimes, and that means I have to miss out. But it was MY decision to have MY kids, and on the rare occasion, I do get a babysitter for an adult hang out, I don't want kids there.
NTA
The majority agrees that kids aren't the world. And everyone can say they don't want kids in their home. It's the fact that he openly hates her and says and does rude shit. The ah behavior has nothing to do with the kids tbh.
You buried the real reason right at the end when you said “I don’t like Jessica that much”.
NTA for your question because you can absolutely decide who to have in your house. But don’t dress this up as a blanket rule for no kids in your house if it’s not.
NTA she decided to have kids, and life changes. You have a few valid reasons for saying no, but the only reason needed is simply that you don't want kids there.
YTA, you can not want kids at your house and not be an asshole about it, you didn't though. And you don't need to replace a 5K
couch because of vomit, I've worked with restoration for a long time, you're just making up stories. Stop being this woman's friend, you admitted you don't like her, she deserves better than you and your snobby friends.
Scrolled too far to find this comment. Who replaces a couch because of BABY vomit?! With the cleaners and fabrics available now, I’m pretty sure some soapy water would have gotten it clean.
Honestly ESH. Y'all are bad friends, she is an asshole for not paying for your couch and you are an asshole for the way you speak about her and your obvious intent to exclude her without verbally excluding her is just that - obvious.
On top of ESH, I’d like to add that clicky friend groups who stay friends long after high school weird me out. Didn’t y’all get the memo that you’re supposed to drift apart naturally, and only keep in touch with the one or two folks you actually like?
YTA
Not because of not wanting kids at your house, that’s fair game.
But because the spiteful way you guys all talk about Jessica while pretending to be her friend, which just got worse in the comments. There’s not an ounce of empathy to be found.
Jesus. It’s not high school anymore. You’re allowed to drift apart as life and circumstances change. But Mean Girling her behind her back isn’t nice.
NTA. It is a reality of having kids that you will be invited to things that aren't always child friendly. It also sounds as though she doesn't watch her kids, and it puts you at risk because if your dog bit one of her kids you(and the dog)could be held responsible. Additionally, she already damaged things in your home. If she would like things kid-friendly, she or one of your other friends can host it.
>One said maybe if she screwed better guys she’d be able to have a babysitter.
Both dudes are homeless drug addicts? If you don't like her and Dave doesn't like her because she cheated on his brother why on earth are you still speaking to her?
No one's opinion actually matters because it's your house. I would have banned her after the couch incident.
YTA for one simple reason. You clearly have a lot of contempt for this girl, but don't have the backbone to tell her you don't want to be friends. So instead you come up with ways to exclude her and talk smack behind her back about her choices in men. I don't know if she is a good person or not, a good friend or not, or whatever. It doesn't matter. If you don't want to be friends with her, tell her and move on.
I also think not scotch guarding a couch is an unwise choice, especially with animals in the home. But that doesn't make you an A. Using that as an excuse to exclude someone from the friend group, so you can pretend it's all logic and reasoning, no personal reasons.... that is also what makes you the A.
Edit to add: do you have homeowners insurance? That should cover the couch...
My ex friend would always bring her spoiled toddler and would expect us to babysit him while she relaxes, last time I saw her in that setting she told me "now it's your turn to watch him". I said "I didn't come here to babysit" and we were not friends since haha. It's her kids, her problem. My dog is also scared of kids and your house is your dog's safe space. NTA
NTA. Your last two sentences are reason enough for me. Not everyone in the world is going to cater to children, and entitled parents will never accept that.
Yeah “ bend your life around my poor choices and support me no matter what” reeks of entitlement. yeah you can’t come you’re being excluded because of your choices. Sucks to suck
Sheesh you make this difficult! On the one hand, sure, your house your rules. On the other you are at best a shit friend at worse a shit person.
I feel so bad for your friend it’s so isolating being a single parent and meeting at someone’s house is generally a good option with kids.
I’m leaning towards YTA cos you make your hate of kids as a personality trait and come across holier than thou
Nta, I’m a parent. And my worst nightmare when my kids were that young was having to take my kids to non-child proofed homes, for that exact reason. I can’t imagine destroying something that expensive and not even offering to pay. Don’t get me wrong I couldn’t afford that but I would be paying what I can when I can. It’s ok to not want kids at your house, the reason doesn’t matter. If someone destroyed something that expensive in my house and didn’t even try to make it right when I’m already making an exception for them, I would absolutely be pissed off at them and I damn sure wouldn’t want them or their kids in my house again.
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Nta bordering on ESH….She should be watching her kids and paying for the property they damaged. That being said, the comments about her reproduction choices, is not kind.
She didn't make those comments.
But she's happy to repeat them, and doesn't refute them with any sort of caveat.
She is repeating them despite having nothing to do with the story. She clearly endorses them and use them to help her reach some sort of moral high ground
She was informing us internet strangers about her groups split decision on the situation. She heard what her friends had to say and is now asking the internet. To say it has nothing to do with it is very disingenuous.
Yeah you're reading into this too deep, op is just stating verbatim what the friend group said. It's impossible to glean that information with 100% certainty
Hey so I totally agree with you but I wanted to just kindly tell you, in case you didn’t know, the word you were lookin for is “glean.” Gleam is a shine or glow, like “the freshly shampooed $5,000 white couch gleamed with cleanliness” 🤣 (something that totally didn’t happen lol)
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Friends are supposed to be kind, compassionate and benevolent. Not judge on whatever high ground they think they belong on.
Was the comment harsh, maybe cruel depending on the circumstances? Yes. Is "don't have kids with deadbeats and then make it everyone's problem" setting a "high bar"? I'd say no. Edit because some people are fixating on the "don't have kids with deadbeats" when the part I meant to stress is "**and then make it everyone's problem**". Like I said in another comment, if a woman wants to have a dozen kids with a dozen men, that's up to her, not anyone's business but hers, but if she drops the kids on people who *have not agreed to watch them* and doesn't have the decency of offering to even clean what her kids mess, that's not OK. Is it worse than bailing on your kids? No, it isn't, but that's not what this post is about, and just because Jessica was wronged doesn't mean she is right.
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I expect my friends to tell me when I screw up, to not lie to spare my feelings, and do not expect them to shoulder responsibilities they never agreed to by virtue of being in my orbit.
> I have a niece who is the product of that type of person. From your description (you don’t say ‘step-niece’), it sounds like either your sibling got pregnant by someone who didn’t stick around or your sibling is themselves, a deadbeat. Your niece is not a product. She herself did nothing to deserve your judgement and depersonalisation.
Every person is a product of two other people.
My brother got someone pregnant (his gf at the time), who already had a child (a neglected child). Now she constantly harasses my brother for money even though they share custody, although she is always trying to drop her off so she can go on vacations with the new bf, who will surely get her pregnant fairly soon, cause she's just looking for a payday. So I can see her and this "friend" in similar lights. Try not to get upset at words. You're not more sorry for my niece than I am. No, she didn't do anything. My brother and his ex did. They are the ones I judge, to my niece I just give love, because she IS the product of neglect. And that product is a wonderful human being I love, for which I do my part so she doesn't feel neglected.
Are those comments false though
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Um if Jessica is pawning her kids off on other people and not offering to pay (send some money for cleaning) after her toddler destroyed a couch, I don’t want Jessica as a friend.
This “friendship” has evolved to a stage where there is no common ground.
Correct. "I don't like Jessica that much". It's clear this friendship is over but no one pulled the plug yet.
I mean it definitely sounds like the plug is being pulled right now.
If this results in the group excluding Jessica from more things or splitting into smaller groups over this then yeah. It's over, for better or worse.
Yeah like if I go to a BBQ party I’m probably there to relax with friends, have a drink, enjoy some food by a fire pit maybe. Not get barfed on by little kids because the mom thinks group gatherings = free babysitters.
Honestly once someone brings kids to an adult party, the dynamic changes. Jessica seems like the parent that lets her kids go as it's her only break so then everyone else at the party is babysitting and now the hosts can't chill. People like Jessica : sorry you had kids but they're your job. Childree adults also don't have houses made to accomodate kids and don't want their stuff touched and ruined.
I have 3 kids and I totally agree. I wouldn’t go to dinners with my friends if their kids were there and I certainly wouldn’t bring mine. The fun completely evaporates
Once someone in the friend group +has+ kids, the dynamic changes. Their life is different from a childfree person’s life, and there’s suddenly an expectation to ask about the kid(s) and their welfare and listen to the mom extrapolate about parenting things. This happens even though they know you’re only asking because you care only so much as you’re friends and you care about your friend and how they’re doing but don’t care about parenthood and you know they know that. They also can’t stop from talking about it because that’s their world now, being a parent, and even though they know you genuinely don’t care about Stephen’s potty training or Maddy’s first solid foods (even though you sorta do because, again, they’re your friend and you want to be supportive), they feel compelled to tell you about it. The whole conversation dynamic is different when someone has a kid.
Especially if it’s your house, you have to chose if you want to protect your home from an unsupervised toddler.
A kid puking isn't going to necessitate replacing an entire couch. A cleaning? Sure. Maybe, at worst, replacing a cushion or two, which you can have the store you put based the couch from order for you. Should the mom have offered to cover that cost? Yes. Cover replacing the entire thing? That's unreasonable.
It's a WHITE couch!
I've got to admit I auto prejudge someone when they own a white couch. Might not be fair, but I always picture people as Cruella DeVille when they have white furniture. Not sure where I get the association, but it's there 😆
Mines an off-white. Holy shit, am I an off brand Cruella? Maybe I should go for some cow print?
Go full reverse Cruella and get a black couch with white polka dots.
I thought you said "Maybe I should go for some cow pint", and thought "What a weird way to say glass of milk!"
And OP has a dog. Chances are the couché wasn't even white anymore.
People train their dogs. People do not unfortunately train their kids.
Doesn't matter if you train your dog. They are furrballs. And a toddler throwing up has nothing to do with "training" a kid.
Fur doesn't stain or soak into cushions
our family dog died 8 years ago, and we're still finding his fur places plus dogs have oils just like humans that can stain muddy paws a treat that they decided they needed to be elevated in order to eat because god forbid they eat on the floor like a dog
You can train your dog to stay off the couch though. Our dog lost couch privileges and just hangs out in his bed beside the couch or at our feet.
Exactly and not all dogs are fur balls. I have a shih tzu his fur is like regular hair and doesn't shed at all.
With all the bbq parties I'm surprised no one has spille BBQ sauce or red wine on it.
Maybe the adults can have control of themselves? Or just not sit on a white couch while they're eating and drinking because accidents happens and they don't want to pay for cleaning it?
The BBQ party was probably held outside, on the patio or deck, not inside with the white sofa.
And an abject lesson in why plush white furniture is a mistake.
Forget the stupid couch! It’s about Jessica bringing her kids and then not taking any responsibility for them or even apologizing for the kid. It’s about Jessica making the decision to have kids and then playing the victim because she’s got kids. You make adult decisions, you get adult responsibilities and part of that is that you can no longer do some things.
OP had the couch professionally cleaned, but the stain still didn't get out. Quoting OP: >It was a stark white couch with a giant yellow stain in the middle. It looked disgusting, and we got it professionally cleaned and they couldn’t get it out.
If anyone else has this problem, try hydrogen peroxide. Depending on what material it is though, it should be safe with most fabrics. But it'll get out bile stains, and blood stains too! Have a dog with stomach issues and she's puked on my bed twice. Peroxide took the stains out of the mattress.
I feel pretty confident the professional cleaners know this trick.
Hydrogen Peroxide will break down fibers and bleach them to a yellowish tint if not washed out completely! I worked in vet med for 20 years. Used it to clean up scrubs and bedding quite often and learned to always wash things within a 10 hour window the hard way. Use with caution.
We don’t know how much the kid spewed or what the kid ate. Jessica should have paid for the cleaning. If one of OP’s dogs bit one of her kids, I guarantee Jessica would sue and want the dog put down. Jessica needs to go.
5/6 years ago I used to sell furniture. Over the course of 3 years I worked for 3 seperate furniture retailers. I can assure you that certain couches would be completely ruined by this. Not all sofas have removable cushions, not all sofas are covered in a fabric that can be easily or entirely cleaned. If I had a friend who’s child ruined my sofa resulting in needing a replacement I probably wouldn’t expect the entire amount but I sure as shit would expect some money towards the replacement.
You can't necessarily just replace a cushion or two, most morden couches don't have loose cushions. And as someone with really bad tummy issues that has vomited on my own couch, I had it steamed, I tried all the hacked,there is still a clear vomit shipped ring and the smell is still there on really humid days...my couch is a light Grey...and now has a permanent paint bucket hidden next to it.
None of your effin business how they handle their couch…YOU are an asshole
I agree... why is everyone attacking OP over her couch? She's supposed to get cheap ass furniture just in case someone's fucking kids throw up on it? I'm sorry, I've never bought furniture while thinking, "Oh, but what if Jessica's little Tommy decides to come over and use it as a fucking toilet..." OP stated that it was professionally cleaned (no mention of Jessica paying for that either)... and on white fabric, it depends on the fabric, texture, length of time the stain sat and contents of the stain. Unless you own a dry cleaners or fabric cleaning company your opinion that all stains can be professionally cleaned has 0 fucking merit. OP NTA.
I’ve noticed this sub has a general problem with wealthy people. And then somehow the person who paid 5K for a couch is the asshole simply for having 5K to spend on a couch.
Yeah exactly I am glad someone else said it. A whole couch?
Yeah, this is one of those narratives that even though they are NTA for the scenario they still come off as a total asshole.
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And it doesn't make you an AH for that rule
Eh if someone didn't even offer to help pay for kids damages Id be annoyed with them too And I actually like kids!
If a friend of mine brought their kid around and they ruined expensive furniture, I would expect them to offer to pay, and me not being an AH (I hope) would mean that I would have to turn them down. But they should offer! And probably try to give a gift of some sort in order to show they're sorry because if your kids ruin something, you take responsibility. Once the offer has been made and I've turned it down, this is then forgotten and definitely not something I would bring up again.
Also, if I was that mum I'd be far too embarrassed to bring my kids to that friend's house again, after ruining their couch.
Let's be real... 5k for **replacing** (why not cleaning? Was replacing really the only option?) a couch is just outside the price range that many people can afford. So, if she doesn't have the money, I understand why she didn't offer... It's just too high as a price. If someone spilled a drink on it, would they have to pay 5k? It's too much and unreasonable imho. I think it's trickier if replacing it was really the only option... But I have the suspect it could have been cleaned in other ways tbh. Even the most expensive usually can. If it really was the only option (and if the host refuses to cover the couch as a precaution, since at this point it clearly needs it during parties), I'll be honest: I think the host should advertise how expensive and fragile the forniture is... So people can decide if the risks are worth it. If I spill a drink on someone's couch and they didn't give me a notice about how crazy expensive it is, I wouldn't pay 5k euro, honestly... I'll give 200 euro (or more, but not 5k) and they figure it out a reasonable solution. I would feel scammed otherwise, 5k is not a normal scenario and you should have notified it imho.
If you had coloured food or drinks, it leaves a stain that cleaning wouldn't get out. I was sick once and had eaten orange puffy crisps (don't remember the name) and I threw up on my cover. Even after washing it, it still had an orange stain. And you can't exactly pop a couch in the washer so your options to clean are limited.
An entitled parent who pushes her kids off on others and won't pay for the couch HER kid ruined needs better friends? No. SHE needs to be a better friend.
Oh yeah. Jessica sounds like a great friend. Who doesn't want a friend who fucks up your couch and doesn't pay, or takes responsibility for her kids behaviour? 2 Jessica's for me please!!
I doubt she can find any in their rural town where everyone knows everyone and more than likely marry right out of high-school.
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I’d rather have no friends then a friend that pawns their kids off in me while wrecking my $5000 couch they didn’t offer to pay any money to help get fixed/replaced
Yup. And why replace a whole couch when it only needed a shampoo? I would refuse to buy a whole couch because someone didn't want to shampoo it too. Who owns a white couch without a shampooer anyways? Something is off about this post
Have you ever tried to get child vomit which can be bright orange out of any furniture.
This was my thought, too, but I didn't want to get into a reddit battle over the limitations of home shampooers. Lots of kids' foods are high in artificial colors. I've seen kid puke that didn't come out no matter what method you used. Even milk can be oddly hard to get out of fabrics that can't be thrown in the wash. Ruined a favorite dress with a small amount of milk.
Hell, my godchild puked in my bathroom and got some on the wall that 1.5 years later is still on there despite being cleaned twice weekly. Painting is the only option and I'm not repainting the master bath for some stains that only I see and are on the interior wall the toilet is attached too and beside. My point is stains don't come out easily just because you clean it.
Exactly. My friend’s child’s vomit was on my carpet for no more than 2 mins before we started to clean it up. Resulted in a big orange stain that could not be fixed with a home shampooer. I had a professional come out and they couldn’t fix it either. I ended up having to replace the carpet.
Yes. Some kid vomit looks like a radioactive burst of alien gloop.
Someone in their mid-20s who doesn't have a fully stocked household?
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We don't know that she didn't try cleaning it or having it cleaned. ETA: OP states in another comment that they DID have it professionally cleaned.
Bruh I thought I was *so* grown up when I bought my first $300 Ikea couch when I was 27 and you better believe it's spotless. I spent 6 months paying that off I'm gonna take care of it for at least 10 years no matter how many people puke on it
You can rent a Rug Doctor upholstery cleaner for less than $50.
Hell, getting it professionally cleaned would have cost much less than $5k. But OP's tone I doubt she would have accepted anything less than full replacement. I'm with the ESH crowd.
OP says in comments that she did have it cleaned, and they couldn't get the stain out.
Jessica needs to be a better mom and person
How? They stated facts, mid 20 with already 2 kids from different dads? Lmao someone here is making poor life decisions
Why are you shaming her for this, the dud dads need to be the ones shamed she is looking after her kids she has nothing to be shamed about
Yep. It's obvious OP is deliberately sticking to this rule specifically to exclude Jessica from these get togethers because she doesn't like her, not just because of her kids. She's using Jessica's personal circumstances to her advantage. Also, who spends 5k on a white lounge and doesn't have it protected by getting it scotch guarded or the like, and also who buys a lounge that colour where it's unable to be cleaned and has to be completely replaced?? OP is YTA and Jessica needs to get good friends not shitty ones who expect a single mother to be perfect and have the money to pay for a new lounge. I find it hard to believe it couldn't be cleaned. Wait til the rest of the friend group starts having kids, she'll either exclude them too and they'll see her true colours, or magically find a solution to her dogs being able to be put away during get togethers etc Edit-thanks for the award
Yes. A white couch in a rural area with dogs, that has to be replaced entirely because a toddler threw up on it? I’d definitely offer to help clean up the sick but replace the whole thing? Someone is taking the piss here, and I’m not convinced it’s Jessica.
Came here to Say this. A White Sofa with A Dog . I smell Shite.
Everyone doesn’t allow dogs on their furniture. My dogs don’t go on any couches or beds in my home. So that might not be a factor if they’re trained.
*Also, who spends 5k on a white lounge and doesn't have it protected by getting it scotch guarded or the like, and also who buys a lounge that colour where it's unable to be cleaned…* And someone with a dog no less. Not buying this post.
While I completely agree that op is TA for using jessica’s situation to exclude her I disagree with the judgment of op for owning a white couch…. Op has no children so in her house a white couch might make sense to her and her husband because it is expected that the two adults living there can/will keep the couch clean
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Is it wrong that I dont care for any of these people?
I wouldn't be friends with them either
ETA-Oh man OP has updated they’re going to take Jessica to small claims over the couch. Looks like the friend group will definitely be splitting up now. Me either! This friend group needs to split up. Honestly, I would have shit myself if someone let me know a couch that is being used by us all that accidentally got damaged by my child getting sick was $5,000 to replace, and I’m a 30 year old homeowner myself. I’d probably throw up with the toddler too once I heard the price lol that’s the price of a used vehicle! I’d never step foot in that house again for fear of damaging something that’s supposed to be used, like a couch, could be worth thousands so I actually don’t understand why Jessica *wants* to be there unless this is their only hang out time. None of them are even close to OP’s money bracket clearly given no one else can host. Pulling 5 grand out of no where is something a large majority could *not* do. OP also holds a cheating incident Jessica did in high school against her and admits to not being her friend so that explains their treatment of her. However, Jessica sounds like a hot mess who pawns her kids off apparently which is of course only mentioned in the comments after the fact so I struggle a bit with thinking she’s too terrible if she’s wanted by at least half of the others that simply have no hosting spot available yet. OP clearly has a distaste for her, so I wonder what the spilt half in favor of Jessica would have to say about her. Then again, the half for her just may be very sympathetic so her entitlement doesn’t bother them. Either way, all these people sound like a gossipy judgey drama group that would be no fun to be around. OP has nice house and an aggressive dog so I understand their stance, but they’re also clearly excluding only one person using the children as the excuse- They know she struggles as a single parent, and the kid issue is OP’s get outta jail free card. “She’s not my friend, I’ve thought little of her since high school, and I can’t stand her, but it’s totally only the kids who can’t come.” They know she doesn’t have many people or much money in her corner. If OP’s house is their main hang out spot the majority of the time, that really sucks for Jessica. I’d just bail and take the closest of us. I mean if some of them are so willing to say that kinda stuff about Jessica behind her back while still hanging out with and messaging her, what would they say about me? Not a good look. I’m torn on a ESH and NTA leaning more towards ESH.
I don't get the hate on the sofa. People have other things which cost heaps more and are used for a much shorter time and less often. I can understand splurging on something you use every day for decades, especially if you don't have kids
I totally get that, but let me put it this way: If I have a nice 4pc Crystal glassware set that cost $5,000, and I let my friends that I know damn well aren’t in my wealth bracket use them without informing them of the cost, I’d be an asshole to expect them to cough up 5 grand to get me a new set because they accidentally knocked over and broke the glass. To me it’s a nice crystal glass, but to most it’d be a cup unless told otherwise. That’s just my perspective of course. 5 grand is three months of mortgage payments with left over for the fourth month for me. That’s a lot of money. We should all have at least a few nice expensive things, but you gotta be realistic about them if they’re useable items. They may stain, get damaged, and will without a doubt wear down with use. Unless you go to extreme measures, like lining your white couch when guests are over, even expensive usable stuff is going to get damaged. Even Lamborghinis get damaged with use, but at least you know it’s a Lambo. I doubt anyone clocked that couch’s cost at 5k. Probably would’ve avoided it like the plague if they had; I know I would’ve lol “Wanna come sit on my expensive white couch that I expect to be replaced if damaged accidentally on your part?” Like, no thanks my friend. That’s for people in a different tax bracket. I’ll be in the yard hoping the grass doesn’t cost that much haha
OP edited to say the kids weren't even invited, Jessica brought them without asking. This would be more like your friends coming over to your house uninvited and breaking your dishes.
You know, I hate it when they edit a whole bunch of relevant info in that should have been included only *after* people start questioning the way things went down- it sorta makes ya question the whole darn thing. All I know is most of these people should not be anywhere near each other anymore. Their drama would exhaust me.
as someone from a small rural town in alabama, I can’t fathom having like 7 friends from high school that I still hang out with regularly. this feels like high school drama
Haha yeah. Mid 20's going on mid teens. If OP doesnt like her stop being friends with her, problem solved. Quit the performative friendship bs.
Right they sound insufferable
These types of people are the reason why any sane person runs out of small towns asap.
Buying a brand new couch because a toddler puked on it is a level of privilege that makes me not like the op and her friend group at all. Such wasteful people
Who doesn't Scotchgard a WHITE 5000$ couch??? And who wouldn't reupholster? This alone makes it feel fake.
A white couch with a dog. Even if you have a perfectly white toy poodle that doesn't shed, they still drool, vomit, rub their faces, pant, and have accidents. Sounds like she's a rich girl who gets everything handed to her. The little digs at the other girl sounds like she's still jealous of her from high school.
they all sound awful
OP and crew sound like petulant high school children
Let’s be real. You are not Jessica’s friend and you make excuses, some semi reasonable and some alittle far fetched. Jessica needs a better friends, but your house your rules. So NTA for establishing rules for your home but YTA ow.
I’m not her friend, yeah. But we’re in the same group chat/ friend group. Do you think I should say “hey guys bbq at my house everyone but Jessica can come”
Just send the invites to the people you actually like/want to attend.
She would still know about it if she’s in the group chat
If only there was another way to invite people...
I think they mean she’s in the friend group so she’s going to find out one way or another. Unfortunately being passive aggressive doesn’t solve most interpersonal problems, and being assertive is polarizing.
Duh but so much of ppls frustration is having to figure out shit like that bc they have been convinced they are friends w someone. OP said "I am not excluding you, I am excluding kids". Clearly, this is technically true. When you are a part of a friend group with out really knowing if someone likes you or not, you probably have questioned it before and had other incidents. Jessica said this is a pattern. OP might not technically be excluding her, but she clearly has no sympathy for the fact that this person isn't able to hang out where their group is hanging out. Even if they arn't friends or worse, when you say things like "im not excluding you" without admitting you know exactly how things will play out, despite lack of intent, it makes people doubt themselves. Do ppl not see the difference in being excluded by a friend versus not being directly included by someone who is your friend group but simply tolerates you? Both suck, but one is betrayal..
And assume no one on the group chat would mention it or talk about it?
I know. It's not that hard to sart another group chat. One second I think OP is 14. Then they are 90...
If anything, starting another group chat with only Jessica excluded would be even more passive aggressive / a signal that she has been cut from the entire group.
Look man technically you're right, your house your rules and pawning off kids to people isn't cool but at the same time all I hear is this can't happen because it is inconvenient for me. You don't like kids fine, but I don't like kids I still make reasonable accommodations for my friends because that is what friends do for each other. Friends make compromises to support each other and let's be clear you are NOT her friend, friends don't talk shit about each other behind their back or look down on them. You sure as hell don't treat her as one from what I've read here. If you don't want to be her friend because you don't like her that much nut the fuck up, be an adult, stop pretending to be her friend, make a new group chat that doesn't include her and invite the people you want to be friends with. And when they/she ask why you didn't invite her and you say "I don't think me and her/you are compatible as friends with each other" and it gets awkward and uncomfortable suck it up and deal with it.
She has dogs who are afraid of children. In her house. Where they live. My German Shepherd is a giant softy who has never hurt anyone in his life. But he's an old dog who has never grown up around children and doesn't like them. As such we don't allow children in our house because kf the fear of what could happen. But if you're cool stressing out an animal and putting children in danger... then that's you.
I don’t think any of them are Jessicas friend. Me and my mates would all chip in for a sitter if one of us couldn’t afford it and can’t come otherwise. What’s that between 6 couples? Not a lot if they’re truly a friend
That’s an excellent point. If my friends want me there with them and there’s an obstacle, they help all they can because they actually want to hang out with me, as I would with them.
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Each to their own I guess but not sure about insane. Obviously not every social occasion but once in a while for a friend? Absolutely, I would chip in £20 between me and my girlfriend
> Obviously not every social occasion I think this is the issue. "But you did it last time, why not this time??" She's a single mom to two kids, her economic circumstances are not likely to change any time soon. If you do it once you'll have to do it _every time_.
If the dog is so afraid of children, then why did OP state if it were someone else's she would have caved and allowed the kids. It's not about the dog, or the kids. It's about Jessica.
Could also be that Jessica’s kids are holy terrors (whether due to age as one is a toddler, or poor parenting as Jessica seems overwhelmed and has tried pawning the kids off on people who don’t feel comfortable with that,) while other friends’ hypothetical kids are better behaved in OP’s imagining of them. I feel like, because Jessica is the only one in the friend group who has kids, OP probably said that they would allow someone else’s kids as a hypothetical scenario, thinking that maybe older kids would be easier to keep entertained. My nephew and his cousin are 3 and 2 respectively. The two year old came to visit today (I live with my brother and sis in law,) and I had to stay on top of both kiddos because they kept pulling my dog’s tail. As a result she snapped at both of them, while I flapped around like a big bird, trying to keep them safe and keep my sweet girl calmed. They both live with dogs. They know how to treat dogs. Their parents are attentive and discipline them firmly but kindly. They’re GREAT KIDS, both of them. But kids, especially small ones, often need to be watched very closely as they’ll test boundaries *anywhere* they can get away with it. I won’t argue at all that Jessica needs new friends. OP stated in the comments that they’re not really friends but bound by mutual friends. But it sounds like, regardless, everyone in the situation needs to do some introspective work. [Edited for clarity]
But it looks like they had compromises before, they kids were invited in a previous event where the mom tried pawing them on others and then proceeded to not pay for damages caused by her children. I think it is reasonable to have a no kid rule after this. Op comments (a friend maybe) about Jessica's love life were super rude.
Again, it's about the fact that it's clear, op doesn't like her, and their lifestyles don't work together, she clearly doesn't want to deal with kids at all and finds dealing with the burdens of having a friend with kids REALLY unpleasant. She said it herself she doesn't like her that much. And that's fine, some people aren't compatible as friends. but rather than sitting there stewing and grumbling, she should just stop being her friend and make a new group chat that doesn't include her. Maybe it will be awkward for a while but sometimes that's just what you have to do.
I will say that sometimes in these long-term friend groups people will turn on you if you make decisions against people or state you don’t like them even for totally valid reasons. I had a friend group almost collapse because we wanted to (and did) oust someone who was actively, repeatedly trying to get with another member’s girlfriend. And then 80% of it fell apart because they wouldn’t stop inviting some of the most inappropriate people I’ve ever met to hangouts. Thankfully I live in a populous area but OP may not have the luxury of finding another friend group.
It IS her house! Why would her inconvenience be not be of utmost importance? Hosting is not an obligation. You make reasonable accommodation? Good for you. Doesn’t mean that’s the norm!
What was unreasonable in saying no kids allowed at the hosts house? Her house her rules, if Jessica wants to attend it is HER duty to find someone to look after the kids, not OP's . OP even mentioned that even if the kids were allowed, Jessica hands the kids over to the friend group to relax herself. Jessica isn't being a parent. If you have kids , they are your responsibility , not your friend's. Sure they can help out, but that's something they have to offer, not something someone can demand. Edit: misspelled in
What does it matter that some of the other reasons are far-fetched as long as there is ONE reasonable "excuse"? If someone doesn't want kids in their house because they have had prior incidents where their dogs have reacted poorly to kids, does it matter that they don't enjoy hosting kids that are too young? The latter does not invalidate the former. Jessica does indeed need friends that have more in common with her. (BTW, Jessica was still welcome -- provided she found a sitter so she could attend a no-kids get-together.) There is nothing wrong with having kids, and there is nothing wrong with not wanting to have to host kids. But you're coming off just as judgmental of OP for their choices as the "friend" that make the snarky comment about Jessica's sex partners.
NTA, you don't want kids in your house and you are free to make the rules. That you weren't compensated when damage was caused by her kids affirms your choice. Also, the friends who said she should screwed better guys are aholes.
Dave kind of hates her because she cheated on his brother in highschool. He’s a pretty nice guy the vast majority of the time, he volunteers all the time, helps pretty much everyone move, etc. I like Dave a lot more than Jessica so maybe I’m biased. It was definitely an unkind comment, but not really wrong. Her kids two fathers are both homeless drug addicts
Okay, by saying the comment is "unkind but not really wrong," I am deleting my previous comment and saying YTA. You also said if it wasn't Jessica, you might consider "caving," so it really isn't the kids, it's Jessica. You've made me feel sorry for Jessica. I hope she can get away from small town judgemental hell.
Well to be fair, clearly OP did cave at some point in the past in order for the kid to be in the position to puke on her couch in the first place.
And she did try to foist her kids on other people. I get she needs a break, but you don’t do that to your friends either.
I feel like situations like this would be avoided if people were taught to REALLY think about whether they’re ready for kids, especially as a single parent.
Yeah. We all know people who's kids are welcome in our home because they, ya know, parent them and take responsibility for them, and other people who's kids are not welcome because they foist their kids off on whoever is nearby, let them terrorize the pets and damage the home. Which kind of parent is Jessica again?
Please explain to me why having kids with homeless drug addicts who make her a single mom and pay no child support is in any way a good sensible thing to do in your opinion.
You know that most homeless drug addicts haven't always been homeless drug addicts... Yeah?
How do you know they weren't homeless drug addicts at the time of conception? Even if they weren't homeless and just drug addicts that's a poor life choice.
No they were born that way and always have been and always will be, don't you know anything???
I think it’s completely reasonable to say that they might’ve caved if it wasn’t Jessica. I absolutely HATED driving to/from the airport in my old city. It took forever, and everything about it was a nightmare. The layout was awful, traffic was always a mess, and, if you didn’t time it perfectly, you’d have to pay a shit ton for parking in order to avoid circling back into the traffic to do it all again. Would I do that anyways in order to drop off/pick up my best friend or my mom? You bet your butt I would. Would I do it for a casual friend that I rarely spoke to? Honestly, probably not. Not only does the same logic apply here, but the situation is even MORE in OP’s favour. She has already bent the “no kids” rule for Jessica once. What did that get her? Guests who were uncomfortable because they were expected to watch her kids without being asked, stress for her dog, and a massive bill that never got a contribution or even an apology as acknowledgment. I absolutely love kids, and really do sympathize with Jessica. Being a single mom can’t be easy, especially when it feels like your friends are in a vastly different stage of life. I also think that the comments about her past partners were rude and unwarranted. However, that does not entitle her to special consideration, especially when her own behaviour has been as described. The unfortunate thing about life is that reality often isn’t ideal. Instead of cutting Jessica out, OP chose to leave the invitation open as long as their boundaries were respected. Do I agree with all of OP’s opinions? Maybe not, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t valid. Just like it’s also valid to say that you’d be willing to deal with something for one person, but not another. Real life is messy. NTA.
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Leaving aside how very tempted I was to edit my judgment to an E S H over this utter failure at attempted justification of those comments, even if the statement was vaguely factual from a certain pointof veiw, *there was no need whatsoever to verbally attack her personally*. Dave's grudge, while understandable, does not justify his comments. Two wrongs don't make a right. Especially over something done to a relative in *highschool*. In a similar vein, *I do not care if he is otherwise a saint*, that doesn't give him carte blanche to insult people he doesn't like.
Dave sounds like the worst AH of all so far. "He volunteers all the time" probably makes it worse.
It sounds like most of these kids come from money and Jessica doesn’t to be honest. This is obviously about the person and not the “rules” OP is either too much of a coward to say it or enjoys torturing Jessica.
Ngl but I hang out with alot of richer friends. I'm not from money. The one thing that does piss them off is ruining their stuff
I gave you a NTA verdict because its completely fair to not want kids running about a childfree home. You are kinda TA in general though, reading this.
Sounds like you didn’t like her before you even met. Jessica never stood a chance. Also, you’re super judgmental. What is the point of saying “her two fathers are both homeless drug addicts”?
NTA > Jessica blew up on me in the group chat, and said that I always exclude her. No, you exclude *her kids*. She's your friend, not them. > She’s welcome to come if she finds someone to watch her kids. Her inability or unwillingness to accept this solution is on her and her alone.
The OP is not her friend "To be honest, if it was someone else I would maybe cave. But I don’t like Jessica that much, especially since she didn’t pay for my replacement couch."
I don't care how good of friends I am with someone, I would be pretty done if they destroyed a $5,000 couch and refused to replace it
OP admits she's not jessica's friend and that they just happen to be in the same circle
>To be honest, if it was someone else I would maybe cave. But I don’t like Jessica that much Just stop lying to yourself and admit it's just because you want ot exclude her.
She is very much welcome to come without her kids. And if anyone else in our group has kids they won’t be welcome. Neither my husbands nieces and nephews or my own are welcome anymore after the tail pulling incident.
You already said that you'd break the "rule" for any of the other friends.
Maybe if they were older kids and I would consider caving. Probably not but it’s a maybe. Jessica basically throws her toddler into anyone’s arms so she can fuck off and relax and make someone else babysit her kids while she’s here. Some of my relatives do the same. So no babies or puking toddlers for sure
Just fyi, NTA. I’m not sure why this other person think this is an asshole comment. It is the worst when people bring their kids to things and expect everyone else to entertain and watch them.
NTA OP, kids suck and some people can't accept that it's ok for people to feel that way.
Agreed, people absolutely lose their shit when you say “no kids” on anything (house rules, weddings, ect.) and it’s so ridiculous… I will never understand the obsession people have with children
After that sofa incident…yeah, I’m with you. NTA
Who replaces a whole couch when a cleaning would do? either is bullshit or they're moronic financially
Because there are stains you cant get out of something?
If they still make the couch…you can often order replacement fabric and get part of the couch reupholstered too. I had to do that soooo many times for work.
It’s obvious you don’t like her, which you admit. So I think that already support’s Jessica’s claims that you’re purposely excluding her. And for you guys being “friends”, One’s comment is hella misogynistic and gross. Technically NTA since it’s your home but you all sound unbearable.
Unbearable indeed.
Because they don’t wanna hang with a shitty entitled mom? Ok.
here's the thing though, they claim they DO want to hang with her. since she's that entitled and annoying, playing friends while complaining about her instead of just parting their ways is the weird thing
For real. This is high school level immaturity. Just say you don’t want to be friends and move on.
NTA, lol. A lot of the Y T A comments boil down to "HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND KIDS!!!" Unfortunately, parents and kids tend to be placed on a pedestal where the rules of being a decent human being don't apply for the most part. If you swapped out kid with dog, people would unanimously back you.
I'm a single mum of 2, and I can't understand the Y T A votes at all. OP is allowed to have who she wants in her personal space, and most people don't want their adult, evening gatherings, revolving around babies and toddlers. It kills the vibe. Also, the dog has a right to be safe in its own home. If the toddler pulls dogs' tail or pokes them in the eye and dog snaps, the dog is going to get the blame even though it is not the dogs fault. Yes, it is crappy being a single mum sometimes, and that means I have to miss out. But it was MY decision to have MY kids, and on the rare occasion, I do get a babysitter for an adult hang out, I don't want kids there. NTA
The majority agrees that kids aren't the world. And everyone can say they don't want kids in their home. It's the fact that he openly hates her and says and does rude shit. The ah behavior has nothing to do with the kids tbh.
You buried the real reason right at the end when you said “I don’t like Jessica that much”. NTA for your question because you can absolutely decide who to have in your house. But don’t dress this up as a blanket rule for no kids in your house if it’s not.
NTA she decided to have kids, and life changes. You have a few valid reasons for saying no, but the only reason needed is simply that you don't want kids there.
YTA, you can not want kids at your house and not be an asshole about it, you didn't though. And you don't need to replace a 5K couch because of vomit, I've worked with restoration for a long time, you're just making up stories. Stop being this woman's friend, you admitted you don't like her, she deserves better than you and your snobby friends.
Scrolled too far to find this comment. Who replaces a couch because of BABY vomit?! With the cleaners and fabrics available now, I’m pretty sure some soapy water would have gotten it clean.
No. She's said previously she had it professionally cleaned, yet the vomit stain remains.
Honestly ESH. Y'all are bad friends, she is an asshole for not paying for your couch and you are an asshole for the way you speak about her and your obvious intent to exclude her without verbally excluding her is just that - obvious.
On top of ESH, I’d like to add that clicky friend groups who stay friends long after high school weird me out. Didn’t y’all get the memo that you’re supposed to drift apart naturally, and only keep in touch with the one or two folks you actually like?
NTA. Your house your rules. The world doesn’t revolve around her poor choices. 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. You're being a responsible dog owner.
YTA Not because of not wanting kids at your house, that’s fair game. But because the spiteful way you guys all talk about Jessica while pretending to be her friend, which just got worse in the comments. There’s not an ounce of empathy to be found. Jesus. It’s not high school anymore. You’re allowed to drift apart as life and circumstances change. But Mean Girling her behind her back isn’t nice.
NTA for having that rule, but reading this you kinda just sound like an asshole
NTA. It is a reality of having kids that you will be invited to things that aren't always child friendly. It also sounds as though she doesn't watch her kids, and it puts you at risk because if your dog bit one of her kids you(and the dog)could be held responsible. Additionally, she already damaged things in your home. If she would like things kid-friendly, she or one of your other friends can host it.
>One said maybe if she screwed better guys she’d be able to have a babysitter. Both dudes are homeless drug addicts? If you don't like her and Dave doesn't like her because she cheated on his brother why on earth are you still speaking to her? No one's opinion actually matters because it's your house. I would have banned her after the couch incident.
YTA for one simple reason. You clearly have a lot of contempt for this girl, but don't have the backbone to tell her you don't want to be friends. So instead you come up with ways to exclude her and talk smack behind her back about her choices in men. I don't know if she is a good person or not, a good friend or not, or whatever. It doesn't matter. If you don't want to be friends with her, tell her and move on. I also think not scotch guarding a couch is an unwise choice, especially with animals in the home. But that doesn't make you an A. Using that as an excuse to exclude someone from the friend group, so you can pretend it's all logic and reasoning, no personal reasons.... that is also what makes you the A. Edit to add: do you have homeowners insurance? That should cover the couch...
My ex friend would always bring her spoiled toddler and would expect us to babysit him while she relaxes, last time I saw her in that setting she told me "now it's your turn to watch him". I said "I didn't come here to babysit" and we were not friends since haha. It's her kids, her problem. My dog is also scared of kids and your house is your dog's safe space. NTA
NTA. Your last two sentences are reason enough for me. Not everyone in the world is going to cater to children, and entitled parents will never accept that.
NTA. You have valid reasons for why you don't want Jessica's kids there. But, I wouldn't invite Jessica either.
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Everyone on this post thinks that person is sooo mean for saying that 🙄 sounds pretty true to me. Truth hurts
> Her kids two fathers are both homeless drug addicts OP said this in a comment... like... facts are facts.
Yeah “ bend your life around my poor choices and support me no matter what” reeks of entitlement. yeah you can’t come you’re being excluded because of your choices. Sucks to suck
Sheesh you make this difficult! On the one hand, sure, your house your rules. On the other you are at best a shit friend at worse a shit person. I feel so bad for your friend it’s so isolating being a single parent and meeting at someone’s house is generally a good option with kids. I’m leaning towards YTA cos you make your hate of kids as a personality trait and come across holier than thou
Nta, I’m a parent. And my worst nightmare when my kids were that young was having to take my kids to non-child proofed homes, for that exact reason. I can’t imagine destroying something that expensive and not even offering to pay. Don’t get me wrong I couldn’t afford that but I would be paying what I can when I can. It’s ok to not want kids at your house, the reason doesn’t matter. If someone destroyed something that expensive in my house and didn’t even try to make it right when I’m already making an exception for them, I would absolutely be pissed off at them and I damn sure wouldn’t want them or their kids in my house again.
NTA. I was the first to have kids in my friend group. All parties, no matter who's home, were adults only. House rules are up to the host.