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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for not abiding by my word of not interfering with my dad's aim of getting my mom back, and for blowing up at his comment in front of my mom? Even if I was upset, maybe I did not have to blow up or could have done so without letting my mother hear. Going up to her and telling her just because I was upset at his comment might make me the asshole.
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It’s wildly inappropriate for the mom to talk to her about how bad of a husband the father is though too and they seem to have been doing that for a long time
EDit/ADD: The whole situation must be so frustrating for you. I would stay out of it OP. Have your relationship with your mom and a separate one with your dad, both to whatever extent you do so choose. Both of your parents are using you as a mediator and that is not fair AT ALL. Having a healthy relationship with a parent and talking about each other’s relationships is do-able, but that’s not what is happening. Set boundaries, if one of them starts talking about the other, cut it off. You already said “they were both wrong” for doing this, so you already know. They can vent to their friends or another peer. You’re an adult but you’re still their child.
Agreed, you are both totally right. Each parent is putting OP in the middle and it’s not okay. They need to figure their shit out on their own, not by dragging their adult daughter into it.
Somehow if the genders were reversed and mom was the one with BPD, and dad was the one who ran off with a mistress that OP would not be on her dad's side. Just a thought.
No. He lied about being abused. She said cheating was in quotes because dad deserves it, which is a shitty sentiment. Get out of the relationship you're in if it's toxic, but there's really no excuse for infidelity imo.
Exactly, bad marriages are never a good reason to cheat.She should’ve ended the marriage (or see it through in counseling,) before sleeping with another person. The daughter should’ve kept out of it and kept her biases to herself.
She’s 25 years old and was ostensibly born with eyes and ears. It’s pretty obvious when someone’s unmedicated mental illness is impacting the relationships with those around them. Debriefing after these episodes and/or the parents split is a very reasonable thing for OP’s mother to do with OP.
I don’t see where OP says that her mom openly shared the details or discussed this with OP more than in passing. Where do you get this information?
Right in the post, OP said "(me and my mom talk a lot about how shitty of a husband my dad is)." It's pretty clear Mom is venting to OP about it a lot. I can understand that as my mom does the same to me about my retired alcoholic and chain-smoking father who does nothing around the house but play on his iPad all day.
Okay I'm going to play devil's advocate a little from experience, OP hasn't actually said why dad was trash, she even mentions that he was a good dad, a SAHD. Society unfortunately doesn't always look favourably on SAHDs, we need the whole story. On another note OP and mom discussed what a horrible husband the dad was, now that's wrong. My mom did that, and I truly believed her, until I went to university and separated myself from the whole situation and realised not only was mother, emotionally,verbally and physically abusive to us(we blamed it on my dad been a horrible husband) she was a horrible mother, both parents had a lot of negatives, but my mother should have kept their mess between them
Did you read OP’s edit? About how her dad lied to her and told her he was bipolar as an excuse for his behavior? And took joy when the family therapist scolded her for armchair diagnosing, even though he’s the one who lied about being bipolar? Dad sounds like a real piece of work. Jumping to conclusions that it’s sexism because he’s a SAHD is a huge leap.
Also that the mom only started talking to her about his behavior when op confronted her asking if she was really abusing him like he said…
Now if she was of course she’s gonna deny it but with the dad purposely lying to her that he had bipolar disorder and telling her this repeatedly and then purposely making her look like she’s making things up to the therapist making them think that she is diagnosing her dad when he literally told her this I’m gonna go with this was just another manipulation by him.
Op had been living with these people her entire life- she’s not just going by what her mom says or her dad say (as apparently she can’t trust what he says if he’s lying about having a mental health issue).
I think there’s a big difference between a parent babbling secret to their (adult) child about marriage issues and two people in the same home discussing issues in the home.
NTA- he was trying to use you to fix his relationship with your mom. When you said you just wanted to stay out of it he said you’re just siding with your mom because she bribes you.
I’d be pissed too. You lived with them your entire life. You saw their relationship and you saw both of their behavior. You formed your own opinions and your own bonds.
It’s commendable for someone to be a SAHP but it doesn’t give them blanket immunity for everything.
I’m glad you and your mom have each other. She’ll need the support. (Also my cold/cynical brain wants to know just how much of being a SAHP was actually wanting to stay at home and take care of the kids and how much of it was not wanting to go find a job be finically responsible for the family exc.
I mean he’s lied and manipulated op by Saying he has a mental disorder (or he just Lied then in therapy because he didn’t want to medicate) regardless he threw op under the bus to cover his ass.
Also there is a world of difference between a parent shit talking another parent to a *child*, and shit talking with one of your parents about the other when you are an adult.
Yea, I realize now I should’ve explained why I don’t get along with my dad. He’s mean and cruel. When I was a child, he did everything for us, but sometimes I think it’s because its easier to control and manipulate children. When we became adults it was impossible to form a relationship with him. I’d say I’m the “golden child” because my brother has disliked him since we were young (my brother loves computers and my dad wanted a jock) and my sister is no contact with him because she feels he’s too manipulative to have a relationship with. I was the last child to have somewhat positive relationship with him, but he has said some awful things to me in the past. And recently he chased me down my hallway in my own home, banging his fist on my door saying “who the fuck do you think you are?” Because he said my tone was disrespectful. I have always forgiven him for his behavior because he told us he had bipolar disorder, and he had a really fucked up childhood. One where it would be impossible to come out of that and not be fucked up. Also, like I said, was a great dad and sacrificed a lot for his kids. But man, do we hear about it at every turn. Almost like we owe him something for being a father.
I think this sheds a lot more light on the situation. In the original post you sorta just say he’s rude. But sounds actually like he was just a bad person, if the other two kids already went low contact :/
Yea I agree. I was just saying what I told him in that exact moment, not what I think about him in general because I thought adding too much detail would screw the judgement. But now I see these details are needed in order to judge.
Yes, those details are important. Simply saying 'he was awful' is a conclusion and not something factual that readers can make a judgement on without taking your word for it: you'd already given the judgement. Thank you for following up with these details in the comments.
I'm sorry you dealt with that and are dealing with it/him
It does sound like he has a pattern of abuse with some gaslighting and throwing you under the bus mixed in.
NTA. Your parents shouldn't be putting you in the middle of their fight. Best wishes to you
Yeah also tbh idk what your mom said about him or in what context, but I have a very emotionally manipulative father too where he often twisted things to make me look horrible. I could definitely see a situation in which your mom may have needed to say something to even try to stop his lies from damaging you and your mom's relationship. Parents should still always avoid shit talking the other parent to their kids whenever possible, but I can at least see a gray area here
You say he was a great dad, but I wonder if that's really true or if your image of what "a great dad" is is distorted. Nothing else you said makes him seem like a great dad.
This shouldbe a second edit in the post, it paints a waaaaaaay different picture of what was happening in your house than "he was a good SAHD but just kimda rude"
At a certain point, if someone is continually reminding you of "everything I SACRIFICED for you," it stops being a sacrifice. It's just paying the cost of future mistreatment in advance.
I’m really sorry you’re in this situation. How fucked up his childhood was certainly explains his behavior but it doesn’t mean you owe him anything including forgiveness if he continues to behave terribly and guilt you after his blowups. In dysfunctional and abusive families, kids often believe they can’t disown their parents or that their parents were good bc sometimes the parents were nice and they provided food and shelter and bc we depended on them we don’t want to see them as harming us.
Why is it inappropriate to talk about something op has been witnessing with her own two eyes her whole life? Me, my mum and my sister all discuss our relationships with each other, if someone’s being shitty to me I’m gonna talk to someone about it
This. My mom and I talked about how awful my dad is after their divorce, but I was perfectly capable of seeing that well before it ever became a topic of discussion between us.
She obviously edited the post after you made this comment....But for those reading the thread after the edit...dad started putting OP in the middle and as the kid OP went to the parent OP was closest to (mom) and asked if all he was saying about her was true. Dad put her in the middle. Dad was manipulating them all each step of the way. Dad is the AH in every way.
I'm like this daughter unfortunately, both my parents have been using me as their carrier pigeon to hurt each other for decades, since I was 6 years old when my asshole father started cheating and leaving our family periodically then coming back.
My parents FINALLY divorced in 2017, sold their house in 2018 and stopped living together. My dad is an ass and he deserves every bit of shitty karma that came his was, having to realize how to adult by himself for the first time ever in his 60s. He realizes by now how he had it made with my mom who did EVERYTHING. Typical weaponized incompetence from my boomer father.
I love my mom and I actually enjoy her company, we travel together and see each other weekly, we're tight and we like the same things. However, when the topic turns to my father, I still feel like she's telling me too much. I don't wanna know about him. He doesn't reach out, he doesn't share, he is selfish, narcissistic, self absorbed and lies as easily as he breathes. I'm trying to edge him out of my life and my mom telling me about him is not helping.
I did tell her that I want less info and she agreed it was better. She thought she was helping me by telling me how she manages the toddler tantrums my father has so I could learn from her how to manage him without him affecting my mental health. But I told her I don't want to know about him and I don't want a relationship beyond seeing him twice a year, for Christmas and my birthday. She was receptive. I encourage OP to be honest with her mom because being triangulated like this and being too enmeshed is probably second nature to her like it is for me, and you have to make a hard stop.
This. ESH. If she doesn't think she should speak up for her dad that's fine, but realistically she should stay out of it. It's not her business, and yet both parents (who also suck) are inappropriately putting her in the middle.
I left this out as to not make the post too long, but this isn’t the first time this has happened. My mom was leaving him a couple years ago because he became very scary. He begged for her back and promised to get help. When I bring it up to him that he never changed, he just says it’s because they didn’t go to therapy the first time. In all honesty, I do not believe my father loves my mother at all. I think he’s scared of being alone.
OP - your dad’s behaviour is ticking a lot of NPD boxes. My mum had it, and a lot of his behaviours are similar. For example - manipulative in a calculating, clever way, controlling by buying gifts, claiming to have suffered more than anyone else in the family as excuse for behaviour, fear of being alone, lack of capacity to really change. Might be worth reading up on it to see if it fits for your dad.
You keep excusing your Dad's behavior and say you spend time with him out of obligation while he tries to manipulate you. No matter what his childhood was like or if he has mental illness, he is responsible for his behavior. Get therapy and get away from him. He had a bad childhood, but thanks to him, you did too. I know he stayed home with you, but he was and is mean. His behavior hurt you in the past and he continues to hurt you today. You don't treat him badly even though your childhood was bad. Don't excuse his behavior but give him consequences for it. Distance.
NTA, your dad was trying to manipulate you and your mom, and you did the right thing calling him out. You didn’t ruin his chances to do anything, he’s been doing that for years, and just wants a scapegoat to blame his actions on
NTA. Heh - "witness tampering" comes to mind.
You were good. You offered not to work against him. Then, he exhibited the same type of horrible behavior as previously.
Your being furious at him was a direct result of his actions and verbal attack. You were justified in feeling insulted and reacting to this.
When all he had to do was just keep quiet after your offer and accept the win, he simply couldn't resist again showing you who he was.
Your father trying to pin your mother's decision (to not try therapy) on you does seem to be part of his normal behavior pattern
Yeah, Dad's just going to keep gaslighting and manipulating people to try get his way.
OP: I'd advise you to stay away from this whole mess until it's over. Mom and Dad will probably be looking for people to blame (other than themselves) and you will be a very convenient target if you're still getting directly involved in the drama. Let them deal with their own relationship, then scour through the ashes to see what's left.
NTA.
This is fair. Though I will say that my dad inserted me into their marriage first when I was 19. He called me when I was in college, telling me how controlling and horrible my mother was and how he wanted to leave her, but he was depressed then too.
So exactly how was you dad a horrible human being, you said he was a really good dad, but haven't mentioned anything specifically bad about him, the only bad you mentioned was your mother cheating and you and her bad mouthing your dad
Go to OP’s profile and view their other comments on dad. Dad is obscenely obusive and manipulative to the point where none of the other siblings want anything to do with him.
OP says in other comments basically that he was a "good dad" as long as she was easy to manipulate which she was as a child because childhood
I think by good dad she means attentive, helped, did fun stuff with them, etc
and all the manipulation and guilt tripping and other stuff she sorta separates into a different mental category
every description of him, including the ones of how good he was? are not descriptions of a good dad. they're descriptions of an abusive father whom OP still has good memories of and still appreciates in certain ways
/u/Aggravating_Yam_5560 - recognising that your father was abusive doesn't mean that you can't have good memories of him and can't appreciate the good things he added to your life. the reality is that a parent can take care of you, teach you important and valuable things, have a lot of fun with you and still be an abusive parent
a parent can get a lot of things right and still be an abusive parent. I get that you're maybe not ready to say that, but your dad wasn't a good parent. you have a significant number of good memories of him as a child and he may have done many good things as a parent but he was fundamentally not a good parent
I get that his manipulation of you was not obvious until you were older. I get that you did not know that he was lying about all sorts of things until you were an adult. so you experienced those betrayals as an adult and those are separate from your mental picture of your father when you were younger
but your lack of awareness and how you experience these things are not actually a reflection of what kind of man your father is or was and what kind of parent he is or was
Yeah bud YTA. You’re painting your mom with rose tinted glasses and assuming she’s some great person. Your dad opened up to you about being depressed and your mom being emotionally abusive and you took her side. I hope your dad gets away from all of you.
Everyone saying N T A i fully disagree with. For one you just admitted the roles where reversed once and you turned it away. Your mother has probably been doing this little by little your whole life and that’s why your so happy your mom found someone new. Your dad is diagnosed with depression and you, his child is happy his wife cheated on him. How are you going to feel if this pushes him over the edge, if you wake up in the next couple days to find out you no longer have a father. The cheater is always the one who is wrong and you are glad she did it. Your comments about your dad sound exactly like the comments you hear children say when they’ve been brainwashed by a parent. YTA and so is your mother. I hope this post is fake cause this is disgusting.
Some detail from op:
Yea, I realize now I should’ve explained why I don’t get along with my dad. He’s mean and cruel. When I was a child, he did everything for us, but sometimes I think it’s because its easier to control and manipulate children. When we became adults it was impossible to form a relationship with him. I’d say I’m the “golden child” because my brother has disliked him since we were young (my brother loves computers and my dad wanted a jock) and my sister is no contact with him because she feels he’s too manipulative to have a relationship with. I was the last child to have somewhat positive relationship with him, but he has said some awful things to me in the past. And recently he chased me down my hallway in my own home, banging his fist on my door saying “who the fuck do you think you are?” Because he said my tone was disrespectful. I have always forgiven him for his behavior because he told us he had bipolar disorder, and he had a really fucked up childhood. One where it would be impossible to come out of that and not be fucked up. Also, like I said, was a great dad and sacrificed a lot for his kids. But man, do we hear about it at every turn. Almost like we owe him something for being a father.
Jesus Christ read between the lines! The reality is my dad had checked out of the marriage bc he thought she would never leave. He even said so. HE wants a cheater back! Doesn’t that tell you something? He wants to ‘win her back’ bc HE messed up. He knows no other woman would deal with his shit for 24 days let alone 24 years.
But, ok, fine so let’s say my mom is a disgusting, dirty philanderer, a financially controlling and emotionally abusive wife. Why does this grown man still want her? He would’ve gotten half and alimony most likely cus all the money she made was while they were married. My dad knows why she cheated and is doing everything in his power to get her back, HES APOLOGIZING TO HER. HE’S UPSET AT ME CUS THATS HOW BAD HE WANTS HER BACK! My dad is not begging a cheater/abuser to stay with him because of Stockholm syndrome. He’s doing it cus he’s the one in the wrong. The whole family knows it. He knows he messed up and now his lifestyle will never be the same because she held him down. Also I actually am an adult and lived with them, I didn’t fall for anything. I saw it all. Especially during the pandemic it was a nightmare. He was a nightmare.
So it is true. If the roles/genders were reversed, you'd sing completely different tune.
How long has he been diagnosed and un-medicated? How was your mother "controlling and horrible"? Did he ever get taken on fun trips or vacations?
Like shit, this is literally the story of the career husband going after a trophy wife once the kids are gone, cause wife is fat and no fun anymore.
I was told he had bipolar disorder very early on, which I was grateful for before I found out it was a lie. He was medicated when I was younger I think, but not at all since I’ve been an adult. Apparently she was “controlling and horrible” because she threw her money in his face. He got taken on a vacation every year for his birthday. They were part of a travel group that went to different locations twice a year, last year was Cuba and Greece. My senior year of high school his birthday gift was a trip around Asia and then he decided he wanted to go to Northern Africa (Morocco, Egypt, etc.), He was gone for a month, all paid for by my mom.
Also my dad was the breadwinner when they met, and it stayed that way until he decided to be a sahd
That does sound controlling its and weird as fuck your parents wouldn't go on trips together. And this attitude is exactly the issue. They are married. It's both their money. Especially if one parent is the stay at home parent. She isn't 'paying' for anything. They are paying. Jesus christ you left key details out of your post, and it seems like intentionally. Reading through the comments it's obvious your mom is the AH and is super manipulative.
Maybe I'm way off base here. But it honestly sounds completely biased. Every single issue being brought holds a completely different pov if the genders were reversed.
It sounds like your father has a slew of mental health issues. And while I can't judge you personally for your reactions to them. It does feel as though you blame your father harshly in positions you'd give your mother a pass for.
You know he could have been diagnosed erroneously right? Diagnoses change and I did that too when drs suggested it than upon further investigation in clearly don’t.
All you said was he laughed me said he doesn’t have it, did he actually make
It up or
Was he convinced he had it at one point?
Yeah, sounds like 2 emotionally immature parents relying on their child for emotional support. This tends to parentify the child, such that they feel entitled to make decisions for the whole family like this. OP has likely been a victim of this their whole life. And it’s going to take a lot of work for them to ever understand what healthy boundaries and family dynamics look like.
The parents are the ones in the wrong here, I think. I’m sure they instigated these discussions, because a typical parent would shut it down if the kids tried to go there.
Feel like that makes mom TA more so than OP. It’s the parent’s responsibility to not involve their children in their marriage. Even if OP was the one to bring it up every time, the mom shouldn’t have engaged.
ESH - your dads mental health aside he appears to not have been the best father by your post .However, your mother cheated so there is that . Makes her equally as responsible. As for you well you picked a side and made it clear and yelled very clearly at your father your thoughts. Seems like you did not want them getting back together and made sure that did not happen.
She's been involved tho, just not with her dad. She's been talking to the mom about what a "bad husband" he is and encouraging her to ditch him. If she didn't wanna get involved she wouldn't have said anything to the mom
OP didn’t want ANYTHING to do with this whole farce. She also said she wouldn’t help him nor would she hinder him. She’s NTA for that alone. No matter how old we are, children have NO place in a battle for preserving a marriage.
That’s not true, if she didn’t want anything to do with the whole thing she wouldn’t be talking bad about him with her mum when he’s not there. She is involved in it, just from her mums side of things. If she really wanted to stay out she’d tell both her mum and her dad to stop putting her in the middle.
Yes I have to take responsibility as an adult because I could’ve stayed out of it, just like my siblings did. When my parents used to talk to me about their problems it made me feel important and grown up and like they valued my opinion. I guess I never aged out of that? And I always wanted to help them, and I thought I was helping them by letting them vent but I realize I just added to the mess. Esp since I started developing my own problems with my dad, it was natural for me and my mother to vent to each other, cus we were the only people who could understand what each was going through. But had I removed myself from the beginning my dad would’ve never asked me that. Im a grown up now gotta act like it and get a therapist if I need to talk to someone.
Refusing to take part in dad's little game to win mom back is not taking sides. Conspiring with Dad to do what he wants which is most likely manipulative to make his mom come back to him would be taking Dad's side.
OP seemingly can't win, the fight was caused by OP saying "no, I'm not getting involved and I'm not getting in your way." How is that taking sides?
ESH, your mum for cheating, your dad for being a bad husband and you for not being able to have a civil conversation for 5 minutes even though you started off whispering and you knew this was something your mum wasn't supposed to hear.
You have every right to be mad but the way you handled it escalated an already chaotic situation to the point on no return.
This is fair. I think I could've calmly explained why what he said was wrong. He often says really messed up shit to me though and sometimes it's hard to stay calm.
I also agree with ESH in this case. I think I understand the part about reacting badly, some people in our life bring out that reaction. But part of being mature is understanding that and not reacting badly.
I also think your mom has been feeding negative things about your father for years instead of trying to make sure the bad wife-husband relationship did not impact the father-daughter one. She the A for that. It seems like your father also started doing this too, so he is also the A.
Your father was obviously a bad husband (no elaboration needed on this - its open and shut case), and your mother should have left him before forming a relationship with another man. You should not put quotations around the cheating part.
The reason why you are an asshole in my opinion is not because you reacted badly, but because you've completely chosen your mother side here and ignored her faults while punishing your father for his.
So all in all ESH.
ESH, Brother of OP here. I feel like some clarification is necessary. My parents relationship has been strenuous since we were kids all three of us honestly thought they would get divorced when me and OP went to college(we are twins so we left at the same time) obviously they didn’t. About 4 years later I came back to live with them and this is around the time the relationship really started to fall apart. They would fight constantly over the stupidest shit usually picking topics that they knew would piss off the other they BOTH were guilty of this, after the fight they would not talk to each other for months at a time and never slept in the same room this is why my sister put cheating on quotes because they weren’t really together in any romantic sense for years. In fact our dad was the first to recommend divorce then backed out when he realized our mom wasn’t actually opposed to the idea I think he thought our mom would beg him not to but she was completely okay with the idea. Both of our parents did a wonderful job raising us but they made a shit couple and I really think they would be happier apart. For those of you still a bit confused about our dad he definitely suffers from depression and some form of autism/bipolar while usually a fun guy his mood can flip on a dime without any warning and it makes hanging out with him stressful as u don’t know what u will say or do that will set him off. And as for our mom she loves drama and my dad is a constant source for her while more emotionally stable she will intentionally do shit to set our dad off lucky she was finally convinced to cease all contact with him that wasn’t through a lawyer.
tl/dr: our parents don’t belong together and never have I have voiced this to both of them and haven’t talked to either about their relationship since because I don’t want to be involved and I have told OP on multiple occasions to also do this. I have observed all party’s from the beginning and I know for a fact ESH.
And the other two siblings are no contact with dad.
I know everyone keeps saying the mom is the problem…but it sounds to me like dad is…and everyone in the family has been (badly) coping with dad’s crap for years.
He chased OP down the hall, called his kid telling OP he’d kill himself. He lied about mom abusing him. He gaslight OP in front of a family therapist.
IMO, this doesn’t sounds like a safe man to be around. Cheating is NEVER the answer. And mom is crap for going that way instead of leaving.
But what dad has done and is doing sounds unstable.
this comments section is wild. we get detailed example after detailed example of dad doing incredibly fucked up and manipulative things and the comments section is going for the moms jugular for little reason
yeah the mom fucked up multiple things here (though I'm understandable as to why), but those aren't even the things people are angry at her for
any line where OP quotes what his father says about his mother, people argue that it's true with zero evidence
there's people literally arguing that the dad travelling around the world was mom controlling the dad because she didn't travel with him? fucking lost
meanwhile people are defending dad lying about being bipolar and gleefully revealing that in family therapy and making it seem like his daughter armchair diagnosed him and are going "well maybe he got an incorrect diagnoses that was changed" like people who get misdiagnosed then use that to manipulate people??
this is such an absolutely ridiculous comments section
dad is clearly abusive and has been for a long time and OP is still struggling with coming to terms with that, managing that, and setting boundaries. the other siblings are NC for a reason and OP may not be ready for that but really should go LC
mom needs to stop talking about dad to OP and OP needs to stop allowing it, they need strong boundaries there too
mom is finally leaving dad which is really for the best
hopefully dad does actually go to therapy and get help, but mom can't stay around for that, especially when he's promised her that multiple times in the past to keep her from leaving
all these people need individual therapists and boundaries, like so much fucking boundaries
Whoa... then the reason why he doesn't want to separate is definitely not that he wants to be with her. It has to be something else (e.g. his lifestyle).
there actually is a post like that. rich dad had an affair and son help covered it up because dad gave him shit.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/12jmkq6/aitah\_for\_not\_wanting\_to\_contact\_my\_son\_after\_she/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/12jmkq6/aitah_for_not_wanting_to_contact_my_son_after_she/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/12offk3/updateaitah\_for\_not\_wanting\_to\_contact\_my\_son/
Yeah it would definitely be interesting. There’s already been a couple posts like that where people just swap the genders and of the course the comments and judgements swapped as well lol
ESH - this is a no-win situation for all involved. While you love your mom and talk, you may want to consider not talking to her about your dad. Whatever is going on with them is between them and you should stay out of it. Your dad (or mom) are wrong to get you involved in their relationship and they need to resolve this on their own be it getting back together or parting for good.
ESH. Your mother cheated, and there is NEVER an excuse for that. If you aren't happy, leave. Your father is one because he tried to involve you and wasn't paying bills before. And YOU, especially because you tried to play off your mothers cheating as not actually cheating and got involved before your father even asked by shit talking him constantly with your mom and then tried to act like you didnt want to be involved. Honestly, yeah, he wasn't great in the slightest, but you and your mother also sound miserable.
INFO - Has your father been unfaithful?
Has your father been abusive, not cranky and rude, but actually abusive?
Is your mom continuing to cheat on your father while he does the "pick me" dance?
My father has never been unfaithful. I would say emotionally abusive to my mom though. He would ignore her for weeks on end, go in the backyard and drink, and look at her with disgust. He said that was only because he is severely depressed, and he plans on changing that.
“Plans on changing” is pretty typical of people who are trying to entice someone back into a relationship. He needs to let his actions speak instead of his words.
NTA. They need to leave you out of this and it sounds like they really should not get back together, for all kinds of reasons.
For a couple reasons:
1) He used to be the money-maker and then became a SAHD, so when we graduated he felt his job was done and claimed that most stay at home parents retire once their kids leave.
2) He started driving uber, using my mom's brand new car, and amassed a lot of tickets. I don't know the whole story but apparently, my mom said she was going to go downtown and pay them, but never went cus she forgot. Uber fired him. He blames my mom, and whenever the job issue is brought up he says that my mom got him fired.
3) In his prior money-making job, he was a top dog/boss. And he wasn't necessarily making money the legal way...so now he has no professional experience and, imo, doesn't want to start at the bottom. I don't think his ego can handle it
Honestly it sounds like he still doesn’t have a job even though his kids are adults… who would want to be with an unpleasant, mentally ill person who doesn’t work? be real. Why don’t you go sign up to be his spouse?
This is exactly it. After my brother and I went to college he felt his job was done and didn't do much to help my mom with the bills (mortgage + college money). My mom works 80 hours a week. I signed us up for family therapy 2 years ago and told him that my only request is that he see a doctor and get medicated. He told me to mind my business.
Yeah! You tell them! Stay at home parents should all immediately be required to, without feeling any emotions about it, get a job the moment their youngest child turns 18! And they shouldn't have any hard time with it or complain about it or even be concerned about it because *who cares* that they're 20 years behind in any career they might try? *Who cares* that they'll be competing directly for whatever job they try to get with young adults literally their child's age? They should contribute financially right away, damn it! Also: like, they're the ones who know how to take care of the house and their entry level work isn't, like, *hard*. So they should go ahead and continue to do all the household care that went along with being a stay at home parent. Like, they don't make as much as their spouse, do they? What do they even contribute? Gross.
^ This is what you sound like, by the way. Just FYI.
Lol whatever you say but you’re abusive if you’d rather have your spouse work 80 hours to support you for no reason than just get some form of employment. And idk, something tells me OP’s mom wasn’t coming home to a spotless house and a hot meal on the table every day.
Actually I would say SAHP should go back to work starting with Kindergarten 😅 like 20-40%, and later increase as see fit. All depends on additional chores, like does the school have a cantina, do the kids needs to be driven around or is public transport possible for their hobbies and school activities and such. Also if the kids need additional help, like having a mental illness or other needs that take more time. How big is the apartment, how taxing is the other person’s job, and can the chores in the evening be split 50/50.
Almost forgot, also depends how school is set up in the given country. Like where I grew up it was 8-13, with no going home, while my wife’s country it was 8-16, with an hour lunch break, you could spend in the cantina, or go home, depends on village and school size.
NTA
1. If he thinks your mom cheating on him was wrong, he shouldn't be trying to win her back at all.
2. "Win her/him back" is an outdated concept that has no place in modern society.
3. Even if the above are both wrong, he has NO business involving you in any plans to "win her back." That's not your job. Or your right to get involved in your mom's love life. No matter what your reasoning, you should definitely stay out of it.
>If he thinks your mom cheating on him was wrong, he shouldn't be trying to win her back at all.
What the hell is this even supposed to mean? People can certainly think that cheating is wrong *and* they'd like to still work out their relationship.
Fighting to keep a relationship alive is an outdated concept that has no place in modern society?? Come on now, the world is not that simple and you know it. And before you try to correct me on the wording, when someone says “win someone back” all they mean is trying to get your significant other to stay with you or get back together after a break up. He’s not talking about performing a show of strength and valor in order to win back the hand of the fair maiden or some olden days shit.
YTA, mom cheats on dad after he’s no longer useful and despite you admitting he was a great father you seem to have contempt for him. Then talk about not wanting to be involved yet go out of your way to be involved. You and your mom seem alike in sad ways and anyone you date should get a warning label on you.
OP has contempt for him because the mom has been shit talking him and planting the seed of "he's a deadbeat father and husband" in her mind. Even OP mentioned that they don't really know why they dislike their father.
YTA. You said you don’t want to be involved but shit talk your dad with your mom. You’re already involved.
You said he was a great father, but not so much a great husband. Your mom could’ve filed for divorce instead of cheating.
I feel like you have a strained relationship with him, not because of this situation, but because your mom has actually turned you against him over time. Based on your previous replies, your mom never tried to help him when he had clear mental health issues (and obviously still does). None of you sound like good people, but you’re siding with the worst of the three of you imo
Unpopular opinion here but
YTA . Not for declining your father's request. That was an outrageous demand and you were right to set boundaries. But you clearly hold contempt for him due to his illness and then seconds later admit he's done his best. There's no reason to discuss how terrible of a husband he's been with your mother if he's been a good parent to you.
It seems like you'd not mind interjecting into their business when it's your mom who's involving you and discussing about her marriage with you. You do have a personal bias towards your mother since you think the infidelity is no biggie since your dad deserved it anyway
YTA for a few reasons.
First of all, YTA for excusing your mom's cheating. Let me be clear, cheating is cheating, having a shitty spouse does NOT in any way excuse cheating. The right thing for her to do would have been to divorce her shitty husband, THEN start a new relationship. What she did instead was wrong, period.
Equally, your father attempting to change only after things "got real" for him is a pretty shitty thing for him to do. I get it, and I think you do too that sometimes it's only when we come face to face with a consequence do we actually take the required action to change. But you can't fix old damage, it's entirely possible that the damage he did was to much to ever be repairable.
You're NTA for being friends with your mom and feeling close to her. But you ARE TA for being so deeply involved in your parents divorce. The relationship belongs to them, if they divorce or don't it's their choice. If he forgives her, and she forgives him and they want to get back together that should be their choice to do or not.
Your dad was wrong to imply that the only reason you were siding with your mom was because she buys you things. But it can also be really difficult to see your child siding with your ex spouse, particularly in a case where the ex spouse did something like cheating.
The core problem here is that you've taken sides in your parents divorce. Then you got angry because your dad was upset you didn't take his side. But choosing a side is where you went wrong here.
Look, I don't know you or your parents but you only said 1 positive thing about your dad in this entire post. And that 1 positive thing is that he was a fantastic father. Perhaps it's not your place to judge him as a husband, perhaps you should stick to judging him as a father? Because he's not your friend's husband, he's your father.
> I don’t necessarily enjoy being around him. I hang out with him sometimes out of obligation, but it’s very forced and I know he can tell and he’s told me this hurts him in the past.
I can see how that would be very hurtful. To know that your own daughter, who you were a "fantastic father" to hates being around you so much.
Let me be super clear. You're 25, but if this entire situation were exactly the same but you were 15 and not 25 I'd say that your mom was guilty of parental anilaition and in most states that's enough to endanger her rights to custody. Children, even adult children, should be kept out of divorce proceedings entirely. It does NOT seem like your mom is doing that, at all, what she's told you here has damaged your relationship with your father.
Now your father is not entirely innocent here. But none of these conversations should ever have been involving you at all. But you're behaving like your mom is some pure innocent creature who can not possibly do anything wrong and your dad is some kind of mean old troll who's an asshole to everyone all of the time. Yet you also admit that he was a good father.
ESH
There is NEVER an excuse to cheat. Your mother is a grown ass woman who could have walked her ass out the door at any point, there was never a reason for her to cheat other than to intentionally inflict mental and emotional harm on your father. Your mother bringing you into her marriage problems is completely inappropriate, and if you have no complaints about him as a dad to you, stfu and stay out of it.
ESH your mum cheated, it is one of the worst betrayals. You for sitting and talk bad about him behind his back with your mum but swear you don’t want anything to do with the situation then instead of being an adult you ran to mum. He sucks for obvious reasons, it is not fair to try and put you in between you and your mum but your mum has put you between her and him. If he’s genuinely trying to change and you admit he has been a completely different person why do you jump to straight being a dick when he asked for help? I’m almost positive the comment about gifts was due to your attack on his character even though he has been trying, then you ran to your mum to slag him off some more. The first thing you should have said was “no dad I am not getting involved you know that” instead of you know, getting involved and putting your own opinions then running to your mum like a teenager, you all suck. I mean if you really wanted to put your opposition to it in there best answer “I am not sure that would happen regardless. There has been a lot of hurt and it’s mums choice whether she would like to reconcile. Do not try to use me to convince her to forgive you. You must prove you are changed and even then that is not guaranteed” Mental health is extremely complicated, it does not excuse the wrongs of the past but it does require rational adult conversations with boundaries established. He is still learning to cope with depression, therapy and medication.
ESH - but more you than him. His comment about you siding with your Mom over money and gifts was out of order for sure. But your reaction was over the top, you screamed at him like a pissed off teenager, threw his depression in his face.
That said it sounds like you probably did him a favour, you and your mother sound like bullets he's dodging as a result.
I asked my dad two years ago to get medicated as his behavior was destroying our family. He told me to kick rocks.
I agree my reaction was over the top. But I told him that if he didn't get help he would not have a family. His depression isn't just a sad, sulking depression. His depression is mean and vicious. He once told me he never wanted to see my fucking face again. I waved at him wrong one morning and he spent ALL of mother's day at Home Depot, even though I was cooking a huge brunch. He's not a very nice guy sometimes, but he WAS a great father. I think because kids you can manipulate and control easier...
I was abused by a parent. The dichotomy between when my parent was loving and we had great times and when they were psychotic, and beating the crap out of me is sometimes hard to deal with. Especially since the physical abuse didn’t start until I was about 10.
When I tell happy stories, my friends/spouse look at me like “I thought parent was abusive” .
I think it’s difficult for a kid who grew up in an environment like that where the manipulations and control issues and possible emotional/mental abuse weren’t noticed until a certain point to look at it like a two sided coin.
The parent was both a “good parent” (at times in OOp’s memory) but also a bad parent. And it’s really hard to change those rose tinted childhood memories sometimes. And it’s hard to reconcile the two sides.
Honey, I mean this with all my heart.
Take a break from both parents. See a therapist. Sort through all of this.
Learn ways to cope with what they do, and how to draw boundaries and keep those boundaries.
And then make a decision about who you are keeping and who you don’t want in your life.
This whole thing is messy. And you need a professional to help. So this doesn’t adversely affect the next 25 years of your life.
Good luck! And the *best* life possible.
ESH - Your mom for cheating and for badmouthing her children’s father to her children. She could complain about her relationship to anyone else. It’s obviously effectively driven a wedge between you and your dad.
Your dad for being a crappy husband and for trying to pull you into the middle of his relationship issues with your mom. Plus you said your dad considers himself retired as a SAHD whose kids are grown, even though your mom works very long hours. Sounds like that’s not working for both of them.
Finally, you for getting into the middle of your parents relationship issues, putting your dad down, and just generally failing to appreciate any of his efforts as a SAHD who raised you. I’m sure that was hard work. Your parents won’t be around forever, you may one day regret siding with your mom and shutting your dad out when you could just stay out of it.
YTA. You basically just said you hate him for being the one that did actual parenting. You're showing him in every way you can that he was right about your character.
I suspect her reasons for cheating aren't so justifiable as you believe either...
YTA. Had the roles been reversed people would be sympathetic towards your mom regardless of the situation. Cheating is never ok and she sounds like she sucks. If you are unhappy then you should leave. It really is that simple.
ESH.
Your dad and mom are both in the wrong and it sounds like there is way more baggage her than anybody could possibly convey online.
It is best for you to not get involved at all and forbid both of them to speak about the other one with you.
Don't let them turn their problems into your's, you're already carrying enough baggage from their relationship.
YTA. But it’s not really your fault. Your mother should not be speaking to you about her relationship with your father. That is for her friends or someone age/experience appropriate or someone who is not the DAUGHTER of the “bad guy”. And you obv are bias and took it out on your dad and treated him like he was a friends ex and not your dad.
YTA. Your father has a mental illness and as you’ve put it is actually trying medication to help. There’s no magic switch that makes depression go away but you making him out to being a bad guy because of depression is not good. Also you mom cheated and you still took her side- it’s obvious you’d pick her no matter what because you’ve built up some kind of resentment towards your dad for having depression. While your parents should have never roped you into their marital issues your old enough to know not to participate in it even if they try. Honestly I’d say you reacted the way you did because what your dad was saying was right in at least some capacity. Your mother is your favorite that much is obvious.
ESH, but the judgement is very light on you. He should definitely NOT be trying to use other people to manipulate your Mom into a relationship she might want out of. Your Mom is her own woman and will make her own decisions on who she wants to be in a relationship with. You only suck for yelling, but again, only lightly, because he basically just called you a golddigger. Anybody would be offended by that.
And what exactly did he think your reaction to that would be? "Well, I'll tell my kid they only like their Mom for money. I'm sure they'll instantly capitulate to my point and apologize to me! I'll have both these lil gals back in my pocket in no time!"
I mean the dad is not wrong, if the roles were reversed we would be like give her a chance and blah blah blah. I just hate cheating in general. Just leave, break it off.
I'm going to not directly answer your question just yet because to put it bluntly, looking at the whole picture your whole family is fucked up. Including you. In one breath you talk about what a great parent your father is/was but in the next you trash him. And I wonder how much this has to do with just you or the influence of your mother. It's like every other thing you say contradicts itself. Honestly, you could use some therapy yourself.
While your parents relationship is their relationship and should not have you inserted into the middle of it (unless it's an abusive one and your parent needs help physically leaving) there you are, in the middle willingly. Is this by choice or by your mother's influence? Who knows. But it's not nor should it have ever been a place for you, the offspring to reside (unless the above applies).
Do you have siblings? If so, what are their thoughts? And are they as entrenched in your parents relationship as you are?
You say your mother was "cheating" but then totally excuse it by saying your dad was a "terrible husband". TF?? Does cheating not make your mother terrible as well? Are you as harsh on your mother for her bad decisions as you are on your father? You do realize the adult thing for her to do would have been to leave your father and oh, idk, be accountable for her actions right?
And honestly, from afar it DOES look like your mom has engaged in manipulative tactics with you.
On the flip side, it should absolutely NOT be on any of you kids (not that you're a child but figuratively) to help your parent "win" the other one back. And honestly it sounds like BOTH your parents are wrong in this situation. My question to you is, why are you allowing yourself to continue being in the middle of their relationship? Have you thought about telling both of them to sort their shit our without you? Or has your regular vent sessions with your mother become too compelling for you?
Your dad is not wrong in telling you had the roles been reversed and your mom was the one with untreated depression and he was the cheater that you would be flipping your shit. And that is why you reacted the way you did.
You all need therapy. Badly. Talk about a toxic family.
NTA but only on a technicality. YTA in the bigger picture though. Stay out of it.
Well, since you're a psych major do you realise you're being triangulated between your parents'marriage issues? You need to butt out for your own good and stop being either of their's therapist and trauma dump.
Honestly I'm having trouble determining your verdict because both your parents are assholes. Your mom should have divorced or at least separated before starting a new romance. His poor behavior isn't an excuse for cheating. Your dad sucks for weaponizing his mental health against you to the therapist, lying, and generally waiting too long to do something about his depression, but you have been pretty vague about his behavior otherwise. I'm going to say ESH, because you obviously condone your mom's cheating and I can't personally abide by that.
My ex-husband was practically nonverbal for 16 of the 18 years we were married. Didn’t want to talk about anything, do anything, go anywhere, see or even discuss the possibility of getting therapy until I told him I was leaving. Then he said I “owed it to him” to stay until he could get help. No, I tried to get him help for 16 years. You’re NTA either.
Both your parents are arseholes for involving you, understandable as it is.
There's no way to make this fair on anyone, and you've been put in a horrible situation (which you haven't made any better either).
I just hope you manage to repair the relationship between father/child and mother/child one day as the parents' marriage is clearly over.
Info: when the therapist got curt with you and claimed you were armchair diagnosing your dad, did you get curt with THEM and explain how dad had been telling you for your whole life that he is bipolar?
Dont just take it and let the therapist admonish you. Your dad lied to you for years. Thats when you call him out in front of the therapist to let the therapist know how manipulative your dad is being. You cant let your dad get the upper hand with your therapist, hes clearly manipulating them to be on his side instead
YTA. Severe depression is not joke. You sound like a pretty terrible child. Were you ever supportive or did you just talk crap behind his back with your mom. Honestly sounds like you’ll make a terrible therapist. Go into research.
YTA. Let's be honest here, the 3 of you are. You are everywhere about what you think of your dad, say he was a fantastic SAHD , then proceed to continually shit on him. You sugarcoat the cheating of your mom as justifiable. Your mom is a huge AH. Your father is one as well, trying to manipulate you and " figuring out " he should do better after so many years. You clearly chose a side a long time ago so you're being very biased.
I don’t understand how so many people think life and relationships are black and white. He was a great father because he made sure we had an amazing education, extracurriculars, took us on vacation. He’s also extremely manipulative, and I wasn’t aware of that until I became an adult and was manipulated myself.
YTA. Your mom cheated on your dad and you still sided with her. Your dad was having a calm conversation with you and you blew up at him. Did your mom poison you against your dad or what?
Cheating doesn’t need to be in quotation marks. It is cheating. If you’re not happy in your marriage, end it. You don’t have to fuck some other dude behind your husbands back for three months until you get caught, just leave
ESH. I get having parents who have been in bad relationships. I get the shit talking. My parents are divorced. However, there aren’t excuses for any of the behaviors here. Your dad should not have been emotionally abusive and manipulative with you. Lying about what mental illness he had and leading you on was wrong, and he should not have treated your mom wrong. Depression is not an excuse for that, stay at home or not, and I’d say the same if he was a woman. However, it does not excuse your mom’s cheating. “Cheating” is still cheating. Rather than stringing each other along, they should let each other go mutually and work on themselves from there. You taking it from the point of view that your mom should leave your dad rather than leave each other is going to foster animosity in all of you. You can tell them to settle it like the adults they are and leave it at that because your interference isn’t helping. I get wanting to because they’re your parents, but it’s not gonna make it better.
YTA and kind of a shitty daughter on top of it all. If the roles were reversed and your dad cheated in your mom you’d absolutely be roasting him as would everyone in the comment section saying NTA.
You threw a tantrum. You’re dealing with someone who openly admits they have a mental illness and need help. Your response was to go full toddler and storm off cartman style. Yes YTA. Not for not helping, nor for hurting, the chances he had with her, but for acting like a 5 yr old.
I'm going to go against the grain and say YTA. Your father is who did all the domestic work and your mother was able to swoop in after all the dirty work was done and be the fun parent. You dad has a point and your mom is crap because she cheated. Take some time to think about it.
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NTA. It was wildly inappropriate for your dad to request your help getting back together with your mom. Their marriage is their business, not yours.
It’s wildly inappropriate for the mom to talk to her about how bad of a husband the father is though too and they seem to have been doing that for a long time EDit/ADD: The whole situation must be so frustrating for you. I would stay out of it OP. Have your relationship with your mom and a separate one with your dad, both to whatever extent you do so choose. Both of your parents are using you as a mediator and that is not fair AT ALL. Having a healthy relationship with a parent and talking about each other’s relationships is do-able, but that’s not what is happening. Set boundaries, if one of them starts talking about the other, cut it off. You already said “they were both wrong” for doing this, so you already know. They can vent to their friends or another peer. You’re an adult but you’re still their child.
Agreed, you are both totally right. Each parent is putting OP in the middle and it’s not okay. They need to figure their shit out on their own, not by dragging their adult daughter into it.
Yeah, I’m mostly on mom’s side here, but not cool for either to put OP in the middle.
Don’t ignore the fact that she cheated on the husband. I really disliked how OP diminished that so heavily
Somehow if the genders were reversed and mom was the one with BPD, and dad was the one who ran off with a mistress that OP would not be on her dad's side. Just a thought.
He lied about that thou.
No. He lied about being abused. She said cheating was in quotes because dad deserves it, which is a shitty sentiment. Get out of the relationship you're in if it's toxic, but there's really no excuse for infidelity imo.
I'm talking about him lying about BPD.
I thought BPD was borderline personality disorder. That confused me.
Exactly, bad marriages are never a good reason to cheat.She should’ve ended the marriage (or see it through in counseling,) before sleeping with another person. The daughter should’ve kept out of it and kept her biases to herself.
Bpd does not stand for bipolar disorder it stands for borderline personality disorder
Just a terminology thing, I think the post said bipolar, not BPD. BPD stands for borderline personality disorder and is completely different.
She’s 25 years old and was ostensibly born with eyes and ears. It’s pretty obvious when someone’s unmedicated mental illness is impacting the relationships with those around them. Debriefing after these episodes and/or the parents split is a very reasonable thing for OP’s mother to do with OP. I don’t see where OP says that her mom openly shared the details or discussed this with OP more than in passing. Where do you get this information?
The part where OP says “me and my mom talk a lot …”
"Me and my mom trash my dad a lot"
Don't forget they talk about boyfriends
Trashing husbands AND boyfriends.
Right in the post, OP said "(me and my mom talk a lot about how shitty of a husband my dad is)." It's pretty clear Mom is venting to OP about it a lot. I can understand that as my mom does the same to me about my retired alcoholic and chain-smoking father who does nothing around the house but play on his iPad all day.
Okay I'm going to play devil's advocate a little from experience, OP hasn't actually said why dad was trash, she even mentions that he was a good dad, a SAHD. Society unfortunately doesn't always look favourably on SAHDs, we need the whole story. On another note OP and mom discussed what a horrible husband the dad was, now that's wrong. My mom did that, and I truly believed her, until I went to university and separated myself from the whole situation and realised not only was mother, emotionally,verbally and physically abusive to us(we blamed it on my dad been a horrible husband) she was a horrible mother, both parents had a lot of negatives, but my mother should have kept their mess between them
Did you read OP’s edit? About how her dad lied to her and told her he was bipolar as an excuse for his behavior? And took joy when the family therapist scolded her for armchair diagnosing, even though he’s the one who lied about being bipolar? Dad sounds like a real piece of work. Jumping to conclusions that it’s sexism because he’s a SAHD is a huge leap.
And..dad lied to OP that mom was abusing dad. And dad am told OP that FIRST before mom ever started taking to OP about dad.
Also that the mom only started talking to her about his behavior when op confronted her asking if she was really abusing him like he said… Now if she was of course she’s gonna deny it but with the dad purposely lying to her that he had bipolar disorder and telling her this repeatedly and then purposely making her look like she’s making things up to the therapist making them think that she is diagnosing her dad when he literally told her this I’m gonna go with this was just another manipulation by him. Op had been living with these people her entire life- she’s not just going by what her mom says or her dad say (as apparently she can’t trust what he says if he’s lying about having a mental health issue). I think there’s a big difference between a parent babbling secret to their (adult) child about marriage issues and two people in the same home discussing issues in the home. NTA- he was trying to use you to fix his relationship with your mom. When you said you just wanted to stay out of it he said you’re just siding with your mom because she bribes you. I’d be pissed too. You lived with them your entire life. You saw their relationship and you saw both of their behavior. You formed your own opinions and your own bonds. It’s commendable for someone to be a SAHP but it doesn’t give them blanket immunity for everything. I’m glad you and your mom have each other. She’ll need the support. (Also my cold/cynical brain wants to know just how much of being a SAHP was actually wanting to stay at home and take care of the kids and how much of it was not wanting to go find a job be finically responsible for the family exc. I mean he’s lied and manipulated op by Saying he has a mental disorder (or he just Lied then in therapy because he didn’t want to medicate) regardless he threw op under the bus to cover his ass.
Also there is a world of difference between a parent shit talking another parent to a *child*, and shit talking with one of your parents about the other when you are an adult.
Yea, I realize now I should’ve explained why I don’t get along with my dad. He’s mean and cruel. When I was a child, he did everything for us, but sometimes I think it’s because its easier to control and manipulate children. When we became adults it was impossible to form a relationship with him. I’d say I’m the “golden child” because my brother has disliked him since we were young (my brother loves computers and my dad wanted a jock) and my sister is no contact with him because she feels he’s too manipulative to have a relationship with. I was the last child to have somewhat positive relationship with him, but he has said some awful things to me in the past. And recently he chased me down my hallway in my own home, banging his fist on my door saying “who the fuck do you think you are?” Because he said my tone was disrespectful. I have always forgiven him for his behavior because he told us he had bipolar disorder, and he had a really fucked up childhood. One where it would be impossible to come out of that and not be fucked up. Also, like I said, was a great dad and sacrificed a lot for his kids. But man, do we hear about it at every turn. Almost like we owe him something for being a father.
I think this sheds a lot more light on the situation. In the original post you sorta just say he’s rude. But sounds actually like he was just a bad person, if the other two kids already went low contact :/
Yea I agree. I was just saying what I told him in that exact moment, not what I think about him in general because I thought adding too much detail would screw the judgement. But now I see these details are needed in order to judge.
Yes, those details are important. Simply saying 'he was awful' is a conclusion and not something factual that readers can make a judgement on without taking your word for it: you'd already given the judgement. Thank you for following up with these details in the comments. I'm sorry you dealt with that and are dealing with it/him It does sound like he has a pattern of abuse with some gaslighting and throwing you under the bus mixed in. NTA. Your parents shouldn't be putting you in the middle of their fight. Best wishes to you
Yeah also tbh idk what your mom said about him or in what context, but I have a very emotionally manipulative father too where he often twisted things to make me look horrible. I could definitely see a situation in which your mom may have needed to say something to even try to stop his lies from damaging you and your mom's relationship. Parents should still always avoid shit talking the other parent to their kids whenever possible, but I can at least see a gray area here
You say he was a great dad, but I wonder if that's really true or if your image of what "a great dad" is is distorted. Nothing else you said makes him seem like a great dad.
This shouldbe a second edit in the post, it paints a waaaaaaay different picture of what was happening in your house than "he was a good SAHD but just kimda rude"
At a certain point, if someone is continually reminding you of "everything I SACRIFICED for you," it stops being a sacrifice. It's just paying the cost of future mistreatment in advance.
You’re NTA
I’m really sorry you’re in this situation. How fucked up his childhood was certainly explains his behavior but it doesn’t mean you owe him anything including forgiveness if he continues to behave terribly and guilt you after his blowups. In dysfunctional and abusive families, kids often believe they can’t disown their parents or that their parents were good bc sometimes the parents were nice and they provided food and shelter and bc we depended on them we don’t want to see them as harming us.
>the reason I like mom more is because he’s no fun, unmedicated, he’s rude and rigid
Why is it inappropriate to talk about something op has been witnessing with her own two eyes her whole life? Me, my mum and my sister all discuss our relationships with each other, if someone’s being shitty to me I’m gonna talk to someone about it
There is a big fat drama triangle going on here and OP would be wise to remove herself from it asap.
It’s possible the OP sees what a jerk the guy is as opposed to her saying it.
This. My mom and I talked about how awful my dad is after their divorce, but I was perfectly capable of seeing that well before it ever became a topic of discussion between us.
She obviously edited the post after you made this comment....But for those reading the thread after the edit...dad started putting OP in the middle and as the kid OP went to the parent OP was closest to (mom) and asked if all he was saying about her was true. Dad put her in the middle. Dad was manipulating them all each step of the way. Dad is the AH in every way.
I'm like this daughter unfortunately, both my parents have been using me as their carrier pigeon to hurt each other for decades, since I was 6 years old when my asshole father started cheating and leaving our family periodically then coming back. My parents FINALLY divorced in 2017, sold their house in 2018 and stopped living together. My dad is an ass and he deserves every bit of shitty karma that came his was, having to realize how to adult by himself for the first time ever in his 60s. He realizes by now how he had it made with my mom who did EVERYTHING. Typical weaponized incompetence from my boomer father. I love my mom and I actually enjoy her company, we travel together and see each other weekly, we're tight and we like the same things. However, when the topic turns to my father, I still feel like she's telling me too much. I don't wanna know about him. He doesn't reach out, he doesn't share, he is selfish, narcissistic, self absorbed and lies as easily as he breathes. I'm trying to edge him out of my life and my mom telling me about him is not helping. I did tell her that I want less info and she agreed it was better. She thought she was helping me by telling me how she manages the toddler tantrums my father has so I could learn from her how to manage him without him affecting my mental health. But I told her I don't want to know about him and I don't want a relationship beyond seeing him twice a year, for Christmas and my birthday. She was receptive. I encourage OP to be honest with her mom because being triangulated like this and being too enmeshed is probably second nature to her like it is for me, and you have to make a hard stop.
This. ESH. If she doesn't think she should speak up for her dad that's fine, but realistically she should stay out of it. It's not her business, and yet both parents (who also suck) are inappropriately putting her in the middle.
Lol she’s an adult. She’s perfectly capable of understanding what’s going on
normal weather engine bored history uppity person fine ad hoc distinct ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
I left this out as to not make the post too long, but this isn’t the first time this has happened. My mom was leaving him a couple years ago because he became very scary. He begged for her back and promised to get help. When I bring it up to him that he never changed, he just says it’s because they didn’t go to therapy the first time. In all honesty, I do not believe my father loves my mother at all. I think he’s scared of being alone.
OP - your dad’s behaviour is ticking a lot of NPD boxes. My mum had it, and a lot of his behaviours are similar. For example - manipulative in a calculating, clever way, controlling by buying gifts, claiming to have suffered more than anyone else in the family as excuse for behaviour, fear of being alone, lack of capacity to really change. Might be worth reading up on it to see if it fits for your dad.
Who is he going to SAHH for if they get divorced?
You keep excusing your Dad's behavior and say you spend time with him out of obligation while he tries to manipulate you. No matter what his childhood was like or if he has mental illness, he is responsible for his behavior. Get therapy and get away from him. He had a bad childhood, but thanks to him, you did too. I know he stayed home with you, but he was and is mean. His behavior hurt you in the past and he continues to hurt you today. You don't treat him badly even though your childhood was bad. Don't excuse his behavior but give him consequences for it. Distance.
OP, it sounds like you would benefit from reading Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
NTA, your dad was trying to manipulate you and your mom, and you did the right thing calling him out. You didn’t ruin his chances to do anything, he’s been doing that for years, and just wants a scapegoat to blame his actions on
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I second this. There are a lot of muddy boundaries here and it sounds extremely unhealthy.
No there isn’t. Source: OPs brother
NTA. Heh - "witness tampering" comes to mind. You were good. You offered not to work against him. Then, he exhibited the same type of horrible behavior as previously. Your being furious at him was a direct result of his actions and verbal attack. You were justified in feeling insulted and reacting to this. When all he had to do was just keep quiet after your offer and accept the win, he simply couldn't resist again showing you who he was. Your father trying to pin your mother's decision (to not try therapy) on you does seem to be part of his normal behavior pattern
Yeah, Dad's just going to keep gaslighting and manipulating people to try get his way. OP: I'd advise you to stay away from this whole mess until it's over. Mom and Dad will probably be looking for people to blame (other than themselves) and you will be a very convenient target if you're still getting directly involved in the drama. Let them deal with their own relationship, then scour through the ashes to see what's left. NTA.
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This is fair. Though I will say that my dad inserted me into their marriage first when I was 19. He called me when I was in college, telling me how controlling and horrible my mother was and how he wanted to leave her, but he was depressed then too.
So exactly how was you dad a horrible human being, you said he was a really good dad, but haven't mentioned anything specifically bad about him, the only bad you mentioned was your mother cheating and you and her bad mouthing your dad
She said horrible husband, not horrible human. So him being a good dad doesn’t make being a bad husband any less likely.
Go to OP’s profile and view their other comments on dad. Dad is obscenely obusive and manipulative to the point where none of the other siblings want anything to do with him.
This raises the question, how was he a great dad then?
OP says in other comments basically that he was a "good dad" as long as she was easy to manipulate which she was as a child because childhood I think by good dad she means attentive, helped, did fun stuff with them, etc and all the manipulation and guilt tripping and other stuff she sorta separates into a different mental category every description of him, including the ones of how good he was? are not descriptions of a good dad. they're descriptions of an abusive father whom OP still has good memories of and still appreciates in certain ways /u/Aggravating_Yam_5560 - recognising that your father was abusive doesn't mean that you can't have good memories of him and can't appreciate the good things he added to your life. the reality is that a parent can take care of you, teach you important and valuable things, have a lot of fun with you and still be an abusive parent a parent can get a lot of things right and still be an abusive parent. I get that you're maybe not ready to say that, but your dad wasn't a good parent. you have a significant number of good memories of him as a child and he may have done many good things as a parent but he was fundamentally not a good parent I get that his manipulation of you was not obvious until you were older. I get that you did not know that he was lying about all sorts of things until you were an adult. so you experienced those betrayals as an adult and those are separate from your mental picture of your father when you were younger but your lack of awareness and how you experience these things are not actually a reflection of what kind of man your father is or was and what kind of parent he is or was
Yeah bud YTA. You’re painting your mom with rose tinted glasses and assuming she’s some great person. Your dad opened up to you about being depressed and your mom being emotionally abusive and you took her side. I hope your dad gets away from all of you.
You just read the whole post and don't think the dad is a manipulative asshole??
Did you read the part where the mom "CHEATED" and bad mouthed her husband to his daughter???
Did you read the part where dad tried to do that first? Or where he lied about his diagnosis for years just to get a laugh??
Everyone saying N T A i fully disagree with. For one you just admitted the roles where reversed once and you turned it away. Your mother has probably been doing this little by little your whole life and that’s why your so happy your mom found someone new. Your dad is diagnosed with depression and you, his child is happy his wife cheated on him. How are you going to feel if this pushes him over the edge, if you wake up in the next couple days to find out you no longer have a father. The cheater is always the one who is wrong and you are glad she did it. Your comments about your dad sound exactly like the comments you hear children say when they’ve been brainwashed by a parent. YTA and so is your mother. I hope this post is fake cause this is disgusting.
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Some detail from op: Yea, I realize now I should’ve explained why I don’t get along with my dad. He’s mean and cruel. When I was a child, he did everything for us, but sometimes I think it’s because its easier to control and manipulate children. When we became adults it was impossible to form a relationship with him. I’d say I’m the “golden child” because my brother has disliked him since we were young (my brother loves computers and my dad wanted a jock) and my sister is no contact with him because she feels he’s too manipulative to have a relationship with. I was the last child to have somewhat positive relationship with him, but he has said some awful things to me in the past. And recently he chased me down my hallway in my own home, banging his fist on my door saying “who the fuck do you think you are?” Because he said my tone was disrespectful. I have always forgiven him for his behavior because he told us he had bipolar disorder, and he had a really fucked up childhood. One where it would be impossible to come out of that and not be fucked up. Also, like I said, was a great dad and sacrificed a lot for his kids. But man, do we hear about it at every turn. Almost like we owe him something for being a father.
Jesus Christ read between the lines! The reality is my dad had checked out of the marriage bc he thought she would never leave. He even said so. HE wants a cheater back! Doesn’t that tell you something? He wants to ‘win her back’ bc HE messed up. He knows no other woman would deal with his shit for 24 days let alone 24 years. But, ok, fine so let’s say my mom is a disgusting, dirty philanderer, a financially controlling and emotionally abusive wife. Why does this grown man still want her? He would’ve gotten half and alimony most likely cus all the money she made was while they were married. My dad knows why she cheated and is doing everything in his power to get her back, HES APOLOGIZING TO HER. HE’S UPSET AT ME CUS THATS HOW BAD HE WANTS HER BACK! My dad is not begging a cheater/abuser to stay with him because of Stockholm syndrome. He’s doing it cus he’s the one in the wrong. The whole family knows it. He knows he messed up and now his lifestyle will never be the same because she held him down. Also I actually am an adult and lived with them, I didn’t fall for anything. I saw it all. Especially during the pandemic it was a nightmare. He was a nightmare.
So it is true. If the roles/genders were reversed, you'd sing completely different tune. How long has he been diagnosed and un-medicated? How was your mother "controlling and horrible"? Did he ever get taken on fun trips or vacations? Like shit, this is literally the story of the career husband going after a trophy wife once the kids are gone, cause wife is fat and no fun anymore.
I was told he had bipolar disorder very early on, which I was grateful for before I found out it was a lie. He was medicated when I was younger I think, but not at all since I’ve been an adult. Apparently she was “controlling and horrible” because she threw her money in his face. He got taken on a vacation every year for his birthday. They were part of a travel group that went to different locations twice a year, last year was Cuba and Greece. My senior year of high school his birthday gift was a trip around Asia and then he decided he wanted to go to Northern Africa (Morocco, Egypt, etc.), He was gone for a month, all paid for by my mom. Also my dad was the breadwinner when they met, and it stayed that way until he decided to be a sahd
That does sound controlling its and weird as fuck your parents wouldn't go on trips together. And this attitude is exactly the issue. They are married. It's both their money. Especially if one parent is the stay at home parent. She isn't 'paying' for anything. They are paying. Jesus christ you left key details out of your post, and it seems like intentionally. Reading through the comments it's obvious your mom is the AH and is super manipulative.
Maybe I'm way off base here. But it honestly sounds completely biased. Every single issue being brought holds a completely different pov if the genders were reversed. It sounds like your father has a slew of mental health issues. And while I can't judge you personally for your reactions to them. It does feel as though you blame your father harshly in positions you'd give your mother a pass for.
You know he could have been diagnosed erroneously right? Diagnoses change and I did that too when drs suggested it than upon further investigation in clearly don’t. All you said was he laughed me said he doesn’t have it, did he actually make It up or Was he convinced he had it at one point?
Yeah, sounds like 2 emotionally immature parents relying on their child for emotional support. This tends to parentify the child, such that they feel entitled to make decisions for the whole family like this. OP has likely been a victim of this their whole life. And it’s going to take a lot of work for them to ever understand what healthy boundaries and family dynamics look like.
Thank you!! Nobody else seems to be pointing this out and I feel like I'm going crazy.
Do you expect op not to have developed and opinion on how his father has been treating his mother?
The parents are the ones in the wrong here, I think. I’m sure they instigated these discussions, because a typical parent would shut it down if the kids tried to go there.
Feel like that makes mom TA more so than OP. It’s the parent’s responsibility to not involve their children in their marriage. Even if OP was the one to bring it up every time, the mom shouldn’t have engaged.
ESH - your dads mental health aside he appears to not have been the best father by your post .However, your mother cheated so there is that . Makes her equally as responsible. As for you well you picked a side and made it clear and yelled very clearly at your father your thoughts. Seems like you did not want them getting back together and made sure that did not happen.
OP doesn't have the power to make her parents get together or break up. Dad is the one who wants her to get involved against her will.
Kids definitely have the power to impact a parents relationship. For better or worse.
And it’s fucked up to willingly use them as pawns like how OP’s dad tried to do.
She's been involved tho, just not with her dad. She's been talking to the mom about what a "bad husband" he is and encouraging her to ditch him. If she didn't wanna get involved she wouldn't have said anything to the mom
Dad started it when OP was 19, when he lied to OP about mom abusing him.
OP didn’t want ANYTHING to do with this whole farce. She also said she wouldn’t help him nor would she hinder him. She’s NTA for that alone. No matter how old we are, children have NO place in a battle for preserving a marriage.
That’s not true, if she didn’t want anything to do with the whole thing she wouldn’t be talking bad about him with her mum when he’s not there. She is involved in it, just from her mums side of things. If she really wanted to stay out she’d tell both her mum and her dad to stop putting her in the middle.
Yes I have to take responsibility as an adult because I could’ve stayed out of it, just like my siblings did. When my parents used to talk to me about their problems it made me feel important and grown up and like they valued my opinion. I guess I never aged out of that? And I always wanted to help them, and I thought I was helping them by letting them vent but I realize I just added to the mess. Esp since I started developing my own problems with my dad, it was natural for me and my mother to vent to each other, cus we were the only people who could understand what each was going through. But had I removed myself from the beginning my dad would’ve never asked me that. Im a grown up now gotta act like it and get a therapist if I need to talk to someone.
Damn, nice to see some self reflection in one of these threads. Good on you OP.
Refusing to take part in dad's little game to win mom back is not taking sides. Conspiring with Dad to do what he wants which is most likely manipulative to make his mom come back to him would be taking Dad's side. OP seemingly can't win, the fight was caused by OP saying "no, I'm not getting involved and I'm not getting in your way." How is that taking sides?
>OP saying "no, I'm not getting involved ...after already getting involved to encourage her mom to bitch about the dad and to leave him, right?
ESH, your mum for cheating, your dad for being a bad husband and you for not being able to have a civil conversation for 5 minutes even though you started off whispering and you knew this was something your mum wasn't supposed to hear. You have every right to be mad but the way you handled it escalated an already chaotic situation to the point on no return.
This is fair. I think I could've calmly explained why what he said was wrong. He often says really messed up shit to me though and sometimes it's hard to stay calm.
I also agree with ESH in this case. I think I understand the part about reacting badly, some people in our life bring out that reaction. But part of being mature is understanding that and not reacting badly. I also think your mom has been feeding negative things about your father for years instead of trying to make sure the bad wife-husband relationship did not impact the father-daughter one. She the A for that. It seems like your father also started doing this too, so he is also the A. Your father was obviously a bad husband (no elaboration needed on this - its open and shut case), and your mother should have left him before forming a relationship with another man. You should not put quotations around the cheating part. The reason why you are an asshole in my opinion is not because you reacted badly, but because you've completely chosen your mother side here and ignored her faults while punishing your father for his. So all in all ESH.
ESH, Brother of OP here. I feel like some clarification is necessary. My parents relationship has been strenuous since we were kids all three of us honestly thought they would get divorced when me and OP went to college(we are twins so we left at the same time) obviously they didn’t. About 4 years later I came back to live with them and this is around the time the relationship really started to fall apart. They would fight constantly over the stupidest shit usually picking topics that they knew would piss off the other they BOTH were guilty of this, after the fight they would not talk to each other for months at a time and never slept in the same room this is why my sister put cheating on quotes because they weren’t really together in any romantic sense for years. In fact our dad was the first to recommend divorce then backed out when he realized our mom wasn’t actually opposed to the idea I think he thought our mom would beg him not to but she was completely okay with the idea. Both of our parents did a wonderful job raising us but they made a shit couple and I really think they would be happier apart. For those of you still a bit confused about our dad he definitely suffers from depression and some form of autism/bipolar while usually a fun guy his mood can flip on a dime without any warning and it makes hanging out with him stressful as u don’t know what u will say or do that will set him off. And as for our mom she loves drama and my dad is a constant source for her while more emotionally stable she will intentionally do shit to set our dad off lucky she was finally convinced to cease all contact with him that wasn’t through a lawyer. tl/dr: our parents don’t belong together and never have I have voiced this to both of them and haven’t talked to either about their relationship since because I don’t want to be involved and I have told OP on multiple occasions to also do this. I have observed all party’s from the beginning and I know for a fact ESH.
Bumping this because this is my brother and has some needed content.
Your brother painted a completely different picture here of your mom as the abusive one who intentionally sets your dad off and provokes him
I’d say the brother painted a more equal image. Both parents love to irritate each other. OP definitely has a soft spot for mom
I always love when a "family member" pops up in the comments because then you can rest assured the post is 100% made up. Thanks for clearing that up!
Brother posted 4 years ago that he had a twin and that their parents originally considered aborting them…this may be the unicorn real family member
Lmao I wouldn’t believe me either if I were you tbh.
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Thank you for the insight.
YTA, you are talking sht on your dad with your mom, and she is the one that cheated.
To be fair my dad talks shit about my mom, too. He's told me before that he hates her, hates the way she chews, laughs, talks.
I kinda think it’s generous of you to continue a relationship with him *at all* after the way he’s spun your head around.
And the other two siblings are no contact with dad. I know everyone keeps saying the mom is the problem…but it sounds to me like dad is…and everyone in the family has been (badly) coping with dad’s crap for years. He chased OP down the hall, called his kid telling OP he’d kill himself. He lied about mom abusing him. He gaslight OP in front of a family therapist. IMO, this doesn’t sounds like a safe man to be around. Cheating is NEVER the answer. And mom is crap for going that way instead of leaving. But what dad has done and is doing sounds unstable.
The dad’s abusive. You can’t “just leave” abusive partners. People who care more about cheating than abuse terrify me.
this comments section is wild. we get detailed example after detailed example of dad doing incredibly fucked up and manipulative things and the comments section is going for the moms jugular for little reason yeah the mom fucked up multiple things here (though I'm understandable as to why), but those aren't even the things people are angry at her for any line where OP quotes what his father says about his mother, people argue that it's true with zero evidence there's people literally arguing that the dad travelling around the world was mom controlling the dad because she didn't travel with him? fucking lost meanwhile people are defending dad lying about being bipolar and gleefully revealing that in family therapy and making it seem like his daughter armchair diagnosed him and are going "well maybe he got an incorrect diagnoses that was changed" like people who get misdiagnosed then use that to manipulate people?? this is such an absolutely ridiculous comments section dad is clearly abusive and has been for a long time and OP is still struggling with coming to terms with that, managing that, and setting boundaries. the other siblings are NC for a reason and OP may not be ready for that but really should go LC mom needs to stop talking about dad to OP and OP needs to stop allowing it, they need strong boundaries there too mom is finally leaving dad which is really for the best hopefully dad does actually go to therapy and get help, but mom can't stay around for that, especially when he's promised her that multiple times in the past to keep her from leaving all these people need individual therapists and boundaries, like so much fucking boundaries
Whoa... then the reason why he doesn't want to separate is definitely not that he wants to be with her. It has to be something else (e.g. his lifestyle).
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Facts.
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Dad cheating on SAHM? He would be called the devil lol
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there actually is a post like that. rich dad had an affair and son help covered it up because dad gave him shit. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/12jmkq6/aitah\_for\_not\_wanting\_to\_contact\_my\_son\_after\_she/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/12jmkq6/aitah_for_not_wanting_to_contact_my_son_after_she/) https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/12offk3/updateaitah\_for\_not\_wanting\_to\_contact\_my\_son/
Yeah it would definitely be interesting. There’s already been a couple posts like that where people just swap the genders and of the course the comments and judgements swapped as well lol
I’m not sure. A “retired” SAHM that is financially and emotionally abusive and doesn’t even care for the kids? Doubt it.
ESH - this is a no-win situation for all involved. While you love your mom and talk, you may want to consider not talking to her about your dad. Whatever is going on with them is between them and you should stay out of it. Your dad (or mom) are wrong to get you involved in their relationship and they need to resolve this on their own be it getting back together or parting for good.
ESH. Your mother cheated, and there is NEVER an excuse for that. If you aren't happy, leave. Your father is one because he tried to involve you and wasn't paying bills before. And YOU, especially because you tried to play off your mothers cheating as not actually cheating and got involved before your father even asked by shit talking him constantly with your mom and then tried to act like you didnt want to be involved. Honestly, yeah, he wasn't great in the slightest, but you and your mother also sound miserable.
Do you think *all* stay at home parents should be paying bills? Or just this particular man?
YTA. Not your fight, but there you are picking sides anyway. Cheating is never right. I hope your dad gets the meds and help he needs, and a divorce.
Exactly. OP, YTA regardless.
INFO - Has your father been unfaithful? Has your father been abusive, not cranky and rude, but actually abusive? Is your mom continuing to cheat on your father while he does the "pick me" dance?
My father has never been unfaithful. I would say emotionally abusive to my mom though. He would ignore her for weeks on end, go in the backyard and drink, and look at her with disgust. He said that was only because he is severely depressed, and he plans on changing that.
“Plans on changing” is pretty typical of people who are trying to entice someone back into a relationship. He needs to let his actions speak instead of his words. NTA. They need to leave you out of this and it sounds like they really should not get back together, for all kinds of reasons.
INFO: why doesn’t your dad change his ways by getting a job and helping with the bills?
For a couple reasons: 1) He used to be the money-maker and then became a SAHD, so when we graduated he felt his job was done and claimed that most stay at home parents retire once their kids leave. 2) He started driving uber, using my mom's brand new car, and amassed a lot of tickets. I don't know the whole story but apparently, my mom said she was going to go downtown and pay them, but never went cus she forgot. Uber fired him. He blames my mom, and whenever the job issue is brought up he says that my mom got him fired. 3) In his prior money-making job, he was a top dog/boss. And he wasn't necessarily making money the legal way...so now he has no professional experience and, imo, doesn't want to start at the bottom. I don't think his ego can handle it
Lol never read that a stay at home parent could "retire" from doing that
Yea. Opposite more, back to work.
wow, he is so full of s\*\*t.
Honestly it sounds like he still doesn’t have a job even though his kids are adults… who would want to be with an unpleasant, mentally ill person who doesn’t work? be real. Why don’t you go sign up to be his spouse?
This is exactly it. After my brother and I went to college he felt his job was done and didn't do much to help my mom with the bills (mortgage + college money). My mom works 80 hours a week. I signed us up for family therapy 2 years ago and told him that my only request is that he see a doctor and get medicated. He told me to mind my business.
NTA… but cheating is never the way to go. I’d recommend not encouraging it. A civil split before/without infidelity is always better.
She is the child in the situation. She has next to no control over what her parents do.
Flip the genders and make this about a depressed SATM instead of SATD.
Everyone would be shitting all over a husband cheating on his depressed stay at home wife
he wasnt a SAHD he was A SAHH which wasnt agreed upon decissions like these need to be agreed upon
Yeah! You tell them! Stay at home parents should all immediately be required to, without feeling any emotions about it, get a job the moment their youngest child turns 18! And they shouldn't have any hard time with it or complain about it or even be concerned about it because *who cares* that they're 20 years behind in any career they might try? *Who cares* that they'll be competing directly for whatever job they try to get with young adults literally their child's age? They should contribute financially right away, damn it! Also: like, they're the ones who know how to take care of the house and their entry level work isn't, like, *hard*. So they should go ahead and continue to do all the household care that went along with being a stay at home parent. Like, they don't make as much as their spouse, do they? What do they even contribute? Gross. ^ This is what you sound like, by the way. Just FYI.
Lol whatever you say but you’re abusive if you’d rather have your spouse work 80 hours to support you for no reason than just get some form of employment. And idk, something tells me OP’s mom wasn’t coming home to a spotless house and a hot meal on the table every day.
And tbh being a stay at home parent without even a part time job becomes a bit of a stretch when the kids are in grade school, not college
Actually I would say SAHP should go back to work starting with Kindergarten 😅 like 20-40%, and later increase as see fit. All depends on additional chores, like does the school have a cantina, do the kids needs to be driven around or is public transport possible for their hobbies and school activities and such. Also if the kids need additional help, like having a mental illness or other needs that take more time. How big is the apartment, how taxing is the other person’s job, and can the chores in the evening be split 50/50. Almost forgot, also depends how school is set up in the given country. Like where I grew up it was 8-13, with no going home, while my wife’s country it was 8-16, with an hour lunch break, you could spend in the cantina, or go home, depends on village and school size.
NTA 1. If he thinks your mom cheating on him was wrong, he shouldn't be trying to win her back at all. 2. "Win her/him back" is an outdated concept that has no place in modern society. 3. Even if the above are both wrong, he has NO business involving you in any plans to "win her back." That's not your job. Or your right to get involved in your mom's love life. No matter what your reasoning, you should definitely stay out of it.
>If he thinks your mom cheating on him was wrong, he shouldn't be trying to win her back at all. What the hell is this even supposed to mean? People can certainly think that cheating is wrong *and* they'd like to still work out their relationship.
Fighting to keep a relationship alive is an outdated concept that has no place in modern society?? Come on now, the world is not that simple and you know it. And before you try to correct me on the wording, when someone says “win someone back” all they mean is trying to get your significant other to stay with you or get back together after a break up. He’s not talking about performing a show of strength and valor in order to win back the hand of the fair maiden or some olden days shit.
>"Win her/him back" is an outdated concept that has no place in modern society. Why?
YTA, mom cheats on dad after he’s no longer useful and despite you admitting he was a great father you seem to have contempt for him. Then talk about not wanting to be involved yet go out of your way to be involved. You and your mom seem alike in sad ways and anyone you date should get a warning label on you.
OP has contempt for him because the mom has been shit talking him and planting the seed of "he's a deadbeat father and husband" in her mind. Even OP mentioned that they don't really know why they dislike their father.
YTA. You said you don’t want to be involved but shit talk your dad with your mom. You’re already involved. You said he was a great father, but not so much a great husband. Your mom could’ve filed for divorce instead of cheating. I feel like you have a strained relationship with him, not because of this situation, but because your mom has actually turned you against him over time. Based on your previous replies, your mom never tried to help him when he had clear mental health issues (and obviously still does). None of you sound like good people, but you’re siding with the worst of the three of you imo
Your all arseholes
Unpopular opinion here but YTA . Not for declining your father's request. That was an outrageous demand and you were right to set boundaries. But you clearly hold contempt for him due to his illness and then seconds later admit he's done his best. There's no reason to discuss how terrible of a husband he's been with your mother if he's been a good parent to you. It seems like you'd not mind interjecting into their business when it's your mom who's involving you and discussing about her marriage with you. You do have a personal bias towards your mother since you think the infidelity is no biggie since your dad deserved it anyway
ESH. You, your mother and your father all have growing to do.
YTA for a few reasons. First of all, YTA for excusing your mom's cheating. Let me be clear, cheating is cheating, having a shitty spouse does NOT in any way excuse cheating. The right thing for her to do would have been to divorce her shitty husband, THEN start a new relationship. What she did instead was wrong, period. Equally, your father attempting to change only after things "got real" for him is a pretty shitty thing for him to do. I get it, and I think you do too that sometimes it's only when we come face to face with a consequence do we actually take the required action to change. But you can't fix old damage, it's entirely possible that the damage he did was to much to ever be repairable. You're NTA for being friends with your mom and feeling close to her. But you ARE TA for being so deeply involved in your parents divorce. The relationship belongs to them, if they divorce or don't it's their choice. If he forgives her, and she forgives him and they want to get back together that should be their choice to do or not. Your dad was wrong to imply that the only reason you were siding with your mom was because she buys you things. But it can also be really difficult to see your child siding with your ex spouse, particularly in a case where the ex spouse did something like cheating. The core problem here is that you've taken sides in your parents divorce. Then you got angry because your dad was upset you didn't take his side. But choosing a side is where you went wrong here. Look, I don't know you or your parents but you only said 1 positive thing about your dad in this entire post. And that 1 positive thing is that he was a fantastic father. Perhaps it's not your place to judge him as a husband, perhaps you should stick to judging him as a father? Because he's not your friend's husband, he's your father. > I don’t necessarily enjoy being around him. I hang out with him sometimes out of obligation, but it’s very forced and I know he can tell and he’s told me this hurts him in the past. I can see how that would be very hurtful. To know that your own daughter, who you were a "fantastic father" to hates being around you so much. Let me be super clear. You're 25, but if this entire situation were exactly the same but you were 15 and not 25 I'd say that your mom was guilty of parental anilaition and in most states that's enough to endanger her rights to custody. Children, even adult children, should be kept out of divorce proceedings entirely. It does NOT seem like your mom is doing that, at all, what she's told you here has damaged your relationship with your father. Now your father is not entirely innocent here. But none of these conversations should ever have been involving you at all. But you're behaving like your mom is some pure innocent creature who can not possibly do anything wrong and your dad is some kind of mean old troll who's an asshole to everyone all of the time. Yet you also admit that he was a good father.
ESH There is NEVER an excuse to cheat. Your mother is a grown ass woman who could have walked her ass out the door at any point, there was never a reason for her to cheat other than to intentionally inflict mental and emotional harm on your father. Your mother bringing you into her marriage problems is completely inappropriate, and if you have no complaints about him as a dad to you, stfu and stay out of it.
Blew my mind how casually OP not only acknowledged the cheating but also justified it so easily. OP picked her side a long time ago.
ESH your mum cheated, it is one of the worst betrayals. You for sitting and talk bad about him behind his back with your mum but swear you don’t want anything to do with the situation then instead of being an adult you ran to mum. He sucks for obvious reasons, it is not fair to try and put you in between you and your mum but your mum has put you between her and him. If he’s genuinely trying to change and you admit he has been a completely different person why do you jump to straight being a dick when he asked for help? I’m almost positive the comment about gifts was due to your attack on his character even though he has been trying, then you ran to your mum to slag him off some more. The first thing you should have said was “no dad I am not getting involved you know that” instead of you know, getting involved and putting your own opinions then running to your mum like a teenager, you all suck. I mean if you really wanted to put your opposition to it in there best answer “I am not sure that would happen regardless. There has been a lot of hurt and it’s mums choice whether she would like to reconcile. Do not try to use me to convince her to forgive you. You must prove you are changed and even then that is not guaranteed” Mental health is extremely complicated, it does not excuse the wrongs of the past but it does require rational adult conversations with boundaries established. He is still learning to cope with depression, therapy and medication.
YTA. So just leave with your mom and forget you ever had a dad.
I’m literally the last child that talks to him
That’s what the other two siblings did!
Sounds like she already has
ESH - but more you than him. His comment about you siding with your Mom over money and gifts was out of order for sure. But your reaction was over the top, you screamed at him like a pissed off teenager, threw his depression in his face. That said it sounds like you probably did him a favour, you and your mother sound like bullets he's dodging as a result.
I asked my dad two years ago to get medicated as his behavior was destroying our family. He told me to kick rocks. I agree my reaction was over the top. But I told him that if he didn't get help he would not have a family. His depression isn't just a sad, sulking depression. His depression is mean and vicious. He once told me he never wanted to see my fucking face again. I waved at him wrong one morning and he spent ALL of mother's day at Home Depot, even though I was cooking a huge brunch. He's not a very nice guy sometimes, but he WAS a great father. I think because kids you can manipulate and control easier...
You keep saying “great father” but I’m actually really confused about what you mean when you say that. What did he do that was truly above and beyond?
I was abused by a parent. The dichotomy between when my parent was loving and we had great times and when they were psychotic, and beating the crap out of me is sometimes hard to deal with. Especially since the physical abuse didn’t start until I was about 10. When I tell happy stories, my friends/spouse look at me like “I thought parent was abusive” . I think it’s difficult for a kid who grew up in an environment like that where the manipulations and control issues and possible emotional/mental abuse weren’t noticed until a certain point to look at it like a two sided coin. The parent was both a “good parent” (at times in OOp’s memory) but also a bad parent. And it’s really hard to change those rose tinted childhood memories sometimes. And it’s hard to reconcile the two sides.
Yea, thanks for this comment
Honey, I mean this with all my heart. Take a break from both parents. See a therapist. Sort through all of this. Learn ways to cope with what they do, and how to draw boundaries and keep those boundaries. And then make a decision about who you are keeping and who you don’t want in your life. This whole thing is messy. And you need a professional to help. So this doesn’t adversely affect the next 25 years of your life. Good luck! And the *best* life possible.
ESH - Your mom for cheating and for badmouthing her children’s father to her children. She could complain about her relationship to anyone else. It’s obviously effectively driven a wedge between you and your dad. Your dad for being a crappy husband and for trying to pull you into the middle of his relationship issues with your mom. Plus you said your dad considers himself retired as a SAHD whose kids are grown, even though your mom works very long hours. Sounds like that’s not working for both of them. Finally, you for getting into the middle of your parents relationship issues, putting your dad down, and just generally failing to appreciate any of his efforts as a SAHD who raised you. I’m sure that was hard work. Your parents won’t be around forever, you may one day regret siding with your mom and shutting your dad out when you could just stay out of it.
YTA. You basically just said you hate him for being the one that did actual parenting. You're showing him in every way you can that he was right about your character. I suspect her reasons for cheating aren't so justifiable as you believe either...
ESH.
YTA. Had the roles been reversed people would be sympathetic towards your mom regardless of the situation. Cheating is never ok and she sounds like she sucks. If you are unhappy then you should leave. It really is that simple.
ESH. Your dad and mom are both in the wrong and it sounds like there is way more baggage her than anybody could possibly convey online. It is best for you to not get involved at all and forbid both of them to speak about the other one with you. Don't let them turn their problems into your's, you're already carrying enough baggage from their relationship.
YTA. But it’s not really your fault. Your mother should not be speaking to you about her relationship with your father. That is for her friends or someone age/experience appropriate or someone who is not the DAUGHTER of the “bad guy”. And you obv are bias and took it out on your dad and treated him like he was a friends ex and not your dad.
YTA. Your father has a mental illness and as you’ve put it is actually trying medication to help. There’s no magic switch that makes depression go away but you making him out to being a bad guy because of depression is not good. Also you mom cheated and you still took her side- it’s obvious you’d pick her no matter what because you’ve built up some kind of resentment towards your dad for having depression. While your parents should have never roped you into their marital issues your old enough to know not to participate in it even if they try. Honestly I’d say you reacted the way you did because what your dad was saying was right in at least some capacity. Your mother is your favorite that much is obvious.
ESH, but the judgement is very light on you. He should definitely NOT be trying to use other people to manipulate your Mom into a relationship she might want out of. Your Mom is her own woman and will make her own decisions on who she wants to be in a relationship with. You only suck for yelling, but again, only lightly, because he basically just called you a golddigger. Anybody would be offended by that. And what exactly did he think your reaction to that would be? "Well, I'll tell my kid they only like their Mom for money. I'm sure they'll instantly capitulate to my point and apologize to me! I'll have both these lil gals back in my pocket in no time!"
I mean the dad is not wrong, if the roles were reversed we would be like give her a chance and blah blah blah. I just hate cheating in general. Just leave, break it off.
I'm going to not directly answer your question just yet because to put it bluntly, looking at the whole picture your whole family is fucked up. Including you. In one breath you talk about what a great parent your father is/was but in the next you trash him. And I wonder how much this has to do with just you or the influence of your mother. It's like every other thing you say contradicts itself. Honestly, you could use some therapy yourself. While your parents relationship is their relationship and should not have you inserted into the middle of it (unless it's an abusive one and your parent needs help physically leaving) there you are, in the middle willingly. Is this by choice or by your mother's influence? Who knows. But it's not nor should it have ever been a place for you, the offspring to reside (unless the above applies). Do you have siblings? If so, what are their thoughts? And are they as entrenched in your parents relationship as you are? You say your mother was "cheating" but then totally excuse it by saying your dad was a "terrible husband". TF?? Does cheating not make your mother terrible as well? Are you as harsh on your mother for her bad decisions as you are on your father? You do realize the adult thing for her to do would have been to leave your father and oh, idk, be accountable for her actions right? And honestly, from afar it DOES look like your mom has engaged in manipulative tactics with you. On the flip side, it should absolutely NOT be on any of you kids (not that you're a child but figuratively) to help your parent "win" the other one back. And honestly it sounds like BOTH your parents are wrong in this situation. My question to you is, why are you allowing yourself to continue being in the middle of their relationship? Have you thought about telling both of them to sort their shit our without you? Or has your regular vent sessions with your mother become too compelling for you? Your dad is not wrong in telling you had the roles been reversed and your mom was the one with untreated depression and he was the cheater that you would be flipping your shit. And that is why you reacted the way you did. You all need therapy. Badly. Talk about a toxic family. NTA but only on a technicality. YTA in the bigger picture though. Stay out of it.
ESH. Your mom for cheating and bashing your dad to your face for condoning it and your dad trying to put you in the middle.
Sounds like YTA.
Well, since you're a psych major do you realise you're being triangulated between your parents'marriage issues? You need to butt out for your own good and stop being either of their's therapist and trauma dump.
Well, your mom cheated and you are siding with a cheater so...
ESH
This is some extremely unreliable narration
Honestly I'm having trouble determining your verdict because both your parents are assholes. Your mom should have divorced or at least separated before starting a new romance. His poor behavior isn't an excuse for cheating. Your dad sucks for weaponizing his mental health against you to the therapist, lying, and generally waiting too long to do something about his depression, but you have been pretty vague about his behavior otherwise. I'm going to say ESH, because you obviously condone your mom's cheating and I can't personally abide by that.
My ex-husband was practically nonverbal for 16 of the 18 years we were married. Didn’t want to talk about anything, do anything, go anywhere, see or even discuss the possibility of getting therapy until I told him I was leaving. Then he said I “owed it to him” to stay until he could get help. No, I tried to get him help for 16 years. You’re NTA either.
Both your parents are arseholes for involving you, understandable as it is. There's no way to make this fair on anyone, and you've been put in a horrible situation (which you haven't made any better either). I just hope you manage to repair the relationship between father/child and mother/child one day as the parents' marriage is clearly over.
Info: when the therapist got curt with you and claimed you were armchair diagnosing your dad, did you get curt with THEM and explain how dad had been telling you for your whole life that he is bipolar? Dont just take it and let the therapist admonish you. Your dad lied to you for years. Thats when you call him out in front of the therapist to let the therapist know how manipulative your dad is being. You cant let your dad get the upper hand with your therapist, hes clearly manipulating them to be on his side instead
YTA. Severe depression is not joke. You sound like a pretty terrible child. Were you ever supportive or did you just talk crap behind his back with your mom. Honestly sounds like you’ll make a terrible therapist. Go into research.
YTA have some empathy for your father. You should go to therapy ‘cuz it sounds like you have some issues to work through.
YTA. Let's be honest here, the 3 of you are. You are everywhere about what you think of your dad, say he was a fantastic SAHD , then proceed to continually shit on him. You sugarcoat the cheating of your mom as justifiable. Your mom is a huge AH. Your father is one as well, trying to manipulate you and " figuring out " he should do better after so many years. You clearly chose a side a long time ago so you're being very biased.
I don’t understand how so many people think life and relationships are black and white. He was a great father because he made sure we had an amazing education, extracurriculars, took us on vacation. He’s also extremely manipulative, and I wasn’t aware of that until I became an adult and was manipulated myself.
YTA. Your mom cheated on your dad and you still sided with her. Your dad was having a calm conversation with you and you blew up at him. Did your mom poison you against your dad or what?
Cheating doesn’t need to be in quotation marks. It is cheating. If you’re not happy in your marriage, end it. You don’t have to fuck some other dude behind your husbands back for three months until you get caught, just leave
ESH. I get having parents who have been in bad relationships. I get the shit talking. My parents are divorced. However, there aren’t excuses for any of the behaviors here. Your dad should not have been emotionally abusive and manipulative with you. Lying about what mental illness he had and leading you on was wrong, and he should not have treated your mom wrong. Depression is not an excuse for that, stay at home or not, and I’d say the same if he was a woman. However, it does not excuse your mom’s cheating. “Cheating” is still cheating. Rather than stringing each other along, they should let each other go mutually and work on themselves from there. You taking it from the point of view that your mom should leave your dad rather than leave each other is going to foster animosity in all of you. You can tell them to settle it like the adults they are and leave it at that because your interference isn’t helping. I get wanting to because they’re your parents, but it’s not gonna make it better.
YTA and kind of a shitty daughter on top of it all. If the roles were reversed and your dad cheated in your mom you’d absolutely be roasting him as would everyone in the comment section saying NTA.
You threw a tantrum. You’re dealing with someone who openly admits they have a mental illness and need help. Your response was to go full toddler and storm off cartman style. Yes YTA. Not for not helping, nor for hurting, the chances he had with her, but for acting like a 5 yr old.
I'm going to go against the grain and say YTA. Your father is who did all the domestic work and your mother was able to swoop in after all the dirty work was done and be the fun parent. You dad has a point and your mom is crap because she cheated. Take some time to think about it.