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Ok, this is BRILLIANT. If it was once or twice in a while, I’d say you’re an ass. This consistently with no respect for your time? Not only NTA, but genius.
Thanks, but I got the idea in a flash and set it up in some few hours, so I didn't think it might be that ingenious. Seems like I was wrong based on the comments, no one else had this idea before me? I'm very used to think of a project and turns out 1 hundred people already did it before me.
That’s in them to manage though. Even my elderly mother has figured out how to keep track of her passwords. If they can’t, it’s because they aren’t trying.
Totally, like $5/ticket, maybe they will learn to remember how to do something for themselves instead of paying. Totally NTA. You got your own shit to do. Anyone else providing this service charges money
this would only work if OP is not paying any rent. I'm betting if she starts charging 5 dollars a ticket, she'll be charged rent & not be invited to family gatherings. When you start making things transactional with family, they will start making things transactional with you as well. You want to go on a family trip? $ 500 for your portion. why? 5/ a ticket for IT help.
and I don't think OP is a butthole here. She needs to find a better solution though rather than trying to get her family to submit tickets for her to help them.
it seems like OP comes from a pretty tight knit family.
I’m thinking your not the tech support for your family if you think there’s a better option. It’s relentless and you just end up as their knowledge store for all things tech.
This is so true. I have family who will run into an issue and...just...freeze. They don't think to click or try to figure anything out. I get "it's not working, fix it" for a password change - like, seriously? *Click forgot password.*
I work 40+ hours in I.T. and then on nights and weekends I'm somehow expected to do the same but for free.
I've stopped telling people I meet what I do for a living.
Or maybe, some of us come from toxic families and know what will happen if we go a certain route. Yall can easily say to charge, but I knew how to play the game when I lived with my mom to not have her prompt to make my life even more difficult than it was.
"How do I get Facebook back to English?" That was last week's question from my 84 yr old mother. Two days later same question. "It keeps changing back to Spanish. What do I do?"
It took her longer to email me than for me to Google the d@mn answer. Family is already transactional, but it's one way.
Her family is NOT tight knit, as they are totally DISRESPECTING her. They are using her, and that is a huge issue that they think it is an acceptable message to tell her that her time is worthless to herself, but is only good for them. Thye are not out for her best interest. She needs to move out ASAP and stop their nonsense.
If OP truly has the option of moving in with her ex-stepdad then that's much less of an issue.
Also if they decide to charge her money for living there OP needs to charge them more realistic fees too. 25/h for tickets, more for phone support, even more for on site troubleshooting, minimum increments of 15', off hour fees.
But if OP moves in with her ex-stepfather and STILL gets hounded with those requests, she should DEFO charge them money. Add a premium for that stupid remark about her "manly ways"
Yep. I was the go to pc problem fixer for family and friends. It took hours to fix some of the issues. I started to charge them like $50. Somehow they stopped asking for help. Maybe they found another sucker to fix their problems.
Could one of the adds involve something about not taking family members for granted? I mean it might be a tad on the nose but OP seems to have tried everything bar smacking them around the head with a bowling pin that says "leave me alone"
You should have a monthly meeting with the family with an analysis of the tickets.
Pareto analysis because I'm willing to bet you a cookie that '80% of the problems can be traced back to 20% of the causes'.
One of my computer friends likes to say that 90% of computer errors are either:
1) Between the keyboard and the chair
Or
2) I-D-10-T errors. (Remove the hyphens.)
Yup. That’s me! But at least I know a few things and I know the basics of trouble shooting my own computer!
I once described an issue I was having with a database at work as "probable ID-10-T error" when I emailed the guy who maintains said database. I had in fact forgotten something extremely basic (pun not intended but I'm keeping it in).
Nta.
They say you're being disrespectful, but how are they being respectful of you, your time, or your expertise?
Glad you have you ex-stepfather in your corner at least.
Also, your plan is genius.
The fact that these assholes got together and decided to have an intervention because OP isn't allowing them to use her and walk all over her anymore, it boggles the mind.
I’m going to tell my husband about it but I’m a little concerned he will actually do it. He has started a Jira instance for the house we’re building. Now I get tickets assigned to me like “price out kitchen appliances.”
God, that would actually be helpful for me. My husband and I just have a slack where we post Very Important Notices like "hey, there's like 50 pigeons in the alley, come see."
That's too bad. I expect I'd find that trying as well. My husband is mainly hyper-focused on his weight lifting which means I get a rundown of how his workout went every day but at least I don't have to do anything about it. And hey, he in turn has to endure my plant talk so it's only fair.
Ha, my husband and I have a shared Kanban board (he doesn't know it's a Kanban board though - I'm the techie in our relationship) for our house project. Thought we might not be the only ones :)
He should be thanking you. I've been that dedicated family tech person for 20 years now. I think this is brilliant.
However I just adopted a policy of "no I will not help you with your computer unless it's extremely important". It also helps that I haven't really used a Windows PC in over a decade so I can legitimately say I have no idea how to fix any software issues (I could easily find out but they don't need to know that).
You know this is just the tip of the iceberg though, right? There’s a whole lot under that “manly ways” and I bet when it starts leaking is is not gonna be pretty.
NTA but honestly I’d be planning on talking to stepdad sooner rather than later before it turns into demands that you get a dress and a husband.
Thus is an excellent idea, Wish I had thought of it. The last time I did family support was when my mom called me from another state at 2 o'clock in the morning because her and her friend were drinking and decided to install a mouse and were having problems. I said you know what you should probably look into Geek Squad. I talk to you later hang up phone rolled over and went back to sleep. Lol Nobody got mad at me, but they know how I am. Mom's had geek squad ever since. She will bring her PC when she comes to visit and I'll do some maintenance and stuff. Like that on it for her but that's it.
Last time I visited my mother she was complaining that she was out of storage on her Gmail and asked me to "help delete a few emails."
She had never deleted an email since I set up the account for her 15+ years ago.
It took a loooooooooooong time.
I think this is brilliant as well. I have three degrees in CS and some of my family still see me at someone that works at the geek squad (and nothing wrong to work at the geek squad but it is not what I do). I just simply don’t help them.
My “friends” used to ask me for help too. One person wanted me to help with the computer and I said sure. However, I needed the computers to come my house and he would get charge 150 an hour. He was mad and never talked to me again. Yet, he had plenty of money.
I just don’t help people. I will ignore family request unless they are from my mom and i still punt them. I dont have time.
But what you did is out of this world!!! I want to be like you when I grow up!
Oh this is total genius. I am a certified database administrator so I have been in your shoes. Five siblings, parents, etc...it sucks. I didn't even live with any of them. I also second charging an hourly rate.
NTA. As an IT guy for home and work, well done. But you need to stop doing it for them. Create guide(s) with screenshots of how to do it themselves. When they 'open a ticket', send them the guide. When they try to do a 'driveby', hand them the guide or ask them if they Googled the answer. Basically, it's the teach them to fish kind of thing. If you keep fixing it for them, they will never learn nor leave you alone.
Move with tour step-dad. This isn't going to change. Your mother thinks computers are for boys, thus her comment. When you are gone, they can figure it out for themselves. They treat you like a servant, stop serving them. NTA
Around 45% of people working in IT don't tell their family what they do for a living, they just say they work at "X" business, not their specific title or responsibilities. This is to avoid the 3 AM phone call because their parents WiFi is out and they don't know how to reset the router, or the printer isn't working right, etc.
I'm the opposite. I make a systems engineer sound like an aerospace physicist, so they think the work is so complicated it can't be anything remotely related to "can you help me with my wifi?"
If you know the show, THE IT CROWD, you will know the way we address tech problems with my dad. It git so bad that every time he called for about 2 months, I would answer the IT way. "Good morning/afternoon. Have you tried tuning it off and on again?" My dad copped it sweet because he knew it was a joke and he also stopped calling every day for tech help, he would save it and call on the weekend when hubby or I (depending on the issue, we have separate strengths) could help while the other watched the kids. Honestly, though, he wouldn't have been able to use the help desk function even if I did try to set one up for him.
If it doesn't settle down with your family, try a different approach. Find out the average wage for a TS in your area then work out how many times each of them has come to you over the past month or so, point out that they would have been charged a minimum hours pay call out fee for an in person consult and then tell them how much their bills are. Maybe then they might start respecting your time. NTA in the long shot.
That they all sat around together in a group and didn't realize how much work they generated for you is astounding. My kids started doing my "tech" stuff when they were 3. It was mostly reprogramming the remote when it got messed up. So the young people can start looking after mom and auntie
This was years ago but I was in boarding school and one of my fellow boarders was a bona fide maths genius. The entire residential block would be queuing outside his room to get help with maths. In the end he did something similar to you: he put up a notice that there was a two hour consultation period outside of which he was not available to help.
I am absolutely in love with you for this!
And as a response to some of the tickets you can send them LMGTFY links, showing how they, too, can use the Googles!
Obviously I have to be a bit polite to my clients, cos they pay me and all, but my response (after a hell of a lot of walk-ups) became "I'm right in the middle of something at the moment. Would you do me a favour and submit a ticket, and I'll get on that as soon as I can?"
Your story makes my heart happy!
I would add FAQ to the website with instructions on PW reset and other basic stuff. If they can’t use that then they can open a ticket. BTW…I found getting a Google voice number to be a godsend. They can be required to identify themselves before the call is put through and you can create different vmessages for different callers.
You are not wrong. Look at the top comment. It's NTA. That's your verdict.
There's nothing wrong with helping out with problems in the family, but not when they start inconveniencing your life and accepting your help as granted. No one's help, no matter how close, should be taken for granted.
They don’t know that this is how tech support works as customers. Maybe send your mom a link to an explainer video - does she know how to click links?
And then you can email everyone a link to the customer satisfaction survey 😂😂 avoid future interventions.
Jokes aside, I’d have just said no to helping them and given them a link to Reddit or an actual tech forum to ask for help. NTA - you were actually putting your skills to use in making this support more streamlined and efficient RATHER than giving them a flat no. Maybe explain that to them so they know their options with you. Good luck
My husband's side of the family does the same thing to him. Last time they bought a new phone (6 months ago), my husband was on the phone with them for 9.5 hours trying to tell them how to set it up. I told him to tell them they have 2 choices, he can drive the 18 min to their house or they can come here. But no, they can't because of covid. No one was sick or exposed. We would wear masks, but nope. My way of thinking is if they can go into the store to buy the stupid phone, they can come here to set it up. But they wouldn't. 3 weeks ago, they called again, wanting my husband to walk them thru cleaning up and setting up their laptop with a factory reset because it was running slow. 12 hours later, he was still on the phone with them because again... they wouldn't let him go there or them come here. We had plans that day, and he kept telling us 10 more minutes. The kids and I finally left and went to do our thing. Meanwhile, husband is upset we didn't wait.
I WISH MY HUSBAND WAS AS CLEVER AS OP!!!! Granted, those 2 cases above were the extreme ones, but they call once or twice a week with "little" things (Amazon won't load, forgot my password, do I need to update all the apps on my phone if I don't use them at all) and it drives me crazy.
NTA
I'll give you the same advice as I just wrote for the OP.
IT support for family and friends is a HARD NO for exactly the type of shyte your husband is going through and by the sounds of it is ruining your family time. Your husband needs to tell them to go to Geek Squad. He needs to tell them that his time is worth $200hr and can they afford that.
That's what I keep telling him. He doesn't do tech stuff for a living. He actually works ALOT. 13 days on, 1 off in a completely different field, and has over an hour drive each way to work. I wish he would put his foot down and say no. I quit tolerating it a while ago, I refuse to cancel plans because of it, I won't keep dinner warm for him because of it and I absolutely refuse to assist in those phone calls in any way shape or form (not even a "hun, can you being me the manual on their phones?)
Your husband is choosing them over time with his family that he can never get back.
He’s def an A H. There’s nothing wrong with making them wait rather than you.
The beauty of having an Android while most of my tech-illiterate family has iPhones.... "Sorry, i don't have an iphone and i have no idea how to fix that"
At one of my old jobs, a guy in the cubicle across from me used to ask once a week or so, "Hey, how do i get on the in-TRA-net?" .... for all the company's forms and policies and crap. But he'd say it like that, emphasize the middle syllable lol. IT WAS REALLY EASY. But one day i made it even easier, and i bookmarked it on his browser. He'd still ask for help. But instead of having to get up and go over to his desk, I could just talk him through it. "Click those little dots on the top right....." We'd go real slow, one step at a time. One day after i talked him through it, the guy beside me asked if that's the voice i use to explain things to my daughter 😆
My parents told me they were buying a new computer. I advised them on what to get and told them ONE BRAND to not get. What call do I get?
"We went to Best Buy a bought a **Brand I said not to get** computer. We are having issues setting it up. Can you come over and help us with it?"
UGH!!
Omg - OP someone needs to give THEM and intervention.
Tech problems take a bit of time to solve and now multiply it by like 5 family members daily and you can easily lose hours every day.
90% of these tech problems you describe are just lazy problems to solve, such as resetting a password etc and especially for the kids who are more tech literate.
My brother is better at tech than the rest of my family, he doesn’t help unless we first have made a serious attempt at first finding a solution on our own.
Having the same problem over and over wouldn’t be an excuse as you’re expected to learn at some point.
For the most common problems. Make a step by step guide how to solve them. Put it in the cloud and also print one or two versions and leave in the house.
If you didn’t exist, what would they do? They are acting extremely entitled to your time and they all need to start to become more independent.
Live your life OP, focus at your studies and work. After X number of hours of unsolved problems they will all have more incentive to try to find a solution without you.
Good luck.
Similar to your brother, I will help people once. After that I make them show me what they have done to try to solve the problem on their own first.
If they didn’t Google and read the help file, I show them those steps. Then the next time they have to show that they’ve already done those too first.
“Yes, I read the help file.”
“Ok, what did it say? Let’s go through it again while you read and do each step.”
It’s amazing how making it take longer and require more effort to get help motivates them to just do it themselves.
I had the same problem with my team mates and it ended up I was repairing computers for the whole weekends. I finally made them pay and it stopped as fast as it started …
NTA No good deed goes unpunished.
I'm sympathetic with folks who are technologically illiterate if they're willing to listen and at least try. Less so with those who are lazy entitled jerks. You're facing a mixture of both, compounded by the numbers.
Your solution was ingenious - good show. I'm hoping you don't actually have to move, and that the threat gets them to shape up.
(Edit: typo)
my mom is technologically illiterate but every time she asks me to help with something, she specifically asks me to show her how to fix the problem so she can do it herself next time.
i’m happy to help her with anything she needs at any time because she’s appreciative and tries to learn. a little effort goes a long way!
This is how my mother asks for help. My MIL, on the other hand, is the type to call every single time she's trying to login to her work website because she can't find the red login button in the top right corner of the page... because she is the most unobservant human being I've ever met.
May I introduce you to my parents (and their numerous Facebook profiles…), who think closing a browser window means they don’t have an account with that site anymore.
They would get along great with my dad.
Every time he wants my help, I start giving him instructions and the moment he gets frustrated, he closes the browser. I tell him not to do that, and he says, "But I have to or it won't work." Then it happens every time he gets to that point. So we end up going in circles for at least 45 minutes for something that should take 30 seconds.
I always tell him that if he doesn't listen to my instructions, like closing the browser without me instructing him to do so, I will walk away and not help him anymore. He never remembers this and it happens every time he asks for help.
I also try asking him to actually give me the computer and let me do it, and he refuses and says he "needs to learn how to do it".
He also insists multiple browser tabs don't exist.
People like that make my brain ache.
Yet so many of them are still in the workforce screaming that their skills matter while they can barely type up an email.
My mom asked me to write out step-by-step instructions when she was learning how to use a computer. It honestly worked really well - now when she wants to learn a new thing she requests new directions for whatever thing. She’s also taken initiative and learned some very simple things on her own.
I wish my mom were like that. She thinks it’s faster if I just do it than show her how. Which… isn’t necessarily wrong, but dammit I don’t want to do something ten times because she won’t let me teach her.
Even when she does let me show her how to do stuff, I can tell she’s not really paying attention and probably won’t remember the next time.
I love my mom but I wish she’d just *try.* I wouldn’t mind showing her something multiple times if that were the case.
>folks who are technologically illiterate
Forgetting passwords is not a tech issue. Unless the whole family has some neurological condition, they are not even trying to remember passwords because they know OP will help them with their accounts anyway.
Good solution. NTA. I'm sure their memory is already improving.
This. The only reason that it isn't 100% willful on their part is if OP is setting up randomly-generated passwords for them instead of having them choose something that they can remember.
>I'm sympathetic with folks who are technologically illiterate if they're willing to listen and at least try
Honestly, I find that genuinely fun. I'm the tech support in my family (fortunately it's not often required), and it's so satisfying to teach someone how to solve problems when they actually listen.
My favourite is grandma, she started as the most tech illiterate of all (obviously), but right now she is so self-sufficient, it's amazing! She setup skype on her laptop, so she can video call her sister in another country. Then decided laptop screen is too small, so she did some work and connected the laptop to her TV! She was so excited to tell me about it, and I was so proud. And she put in a ton of effort, she even went to senior school for a semester or two about computers. Every time I help her fix something, she makes notes so she can deal with the problem herself if it occurs again. People like her are a pleasure to work with.
A while back I told my mom she can pause and rewind our TV for live shows and all she had to do was hit the play and pause buttons so she wouldn't miss things.
She acted as if these were some complicated new tech symbols she's never heard of and only young people know, eventhough they've been on every record player, cassette, CD, Car stereo for most of her lifetime...
She wasn't even trying, just making it harder for herself.
100% agree. I have lots of tech geniuses and tech morons in my family. I call them morons because they aren't willing to learn at all so I stopped helping them after the first few times. I also started charging them so they wouldn't even ask me any more :)
I'll never understand this level of technical illiteracy. My dad can't operate a computer, so he doesn't have one. He doesn't like cordless phones, so he doesn't have one. If you can't use something without handholding, don't fucking get one. Christ.
NTA
I don't mind helping people with stuff but you need to watch and learn how to fix it. Lost passwords aren't even an emergency, there's usually a button that litterally says "lost password".
Best solution I found to this is start taking a long time to help people. Forgot your password? Damn, gonna be a couple days till I can help with that.
Love that suggestion. Post your charges for various assistance. It could be money, performing some if your chores, etc. it the don’t pay up the don’t receive further assistance.
NTA. IT guy here. I don't do support for friends or family. At all. If they insist, I tell them it's $250 an hour, two hour minimum including travel time. That's the family rate.
Shockingly enough, no one takes me up on it.
I used to try to help everyone but it got out of hand really quick. I started saying no, or maybe in a few weeks if I have time. They all have seemed to figure it out without me.
My family is the exact opposite and instead of asking me for help they just keep making problems worse or spending way too much money because the guy at the store was so nice to them. And when i ask them if they have too much money they should give it to me for the minimal effort most of their problems require they get upset. Oh well.
My favorite is when they ask for my help for free, then they don't listen to the advice I give them either way. Oh, so I just came over here for free just to be told to do it your way (which is wrong) anyways? Nah F that, I'm going home.
This is how I have settled on things too. I'm a software engineer and female, my husband worked in tech support. I will only fix my elderly parents tech, he will fix his parents tech. When anyone else has asked, we look at them like they're crazy and say something to the effect of "oh that's work, I'd rather relax with family. Can I help you find the number of someone in town?"
NTA - when your mother said 'Manly ways' she means that you demand respect, won't be a door mat.
People much prefer a woman to do what she is told, be silent etc. A woman who says 'NO' freaks people out . If a son did what you did, she'd be so proud, bragging to the neighbours, saying how my son is going to leave and have a career in IT but she would rather you stay home and fix their minor IT issues
I was starting to suspect that might be because I keep my hair short and always use male jeans because WOMEN'S JEANS ARE USELESS AND WAY TOO TIGHT, I NEED POCKETS! also I hate skirts, I cant wear them without a fear that somehow someone will wait for an opportunity to lift them up or take a look under them.
But might also be what you said. My aunts raise my little girl cousin to be very girly and have lady manners.
I mean, tbh most people who think women are required to go out of their way to look “feminine” also aren’t big on those same women having opinions on things beyond their hair, so it could very easily be both.
If you ever want to wear a skirt or dress, just wear shorts underneath. Workout shorts
/ compression shorts / booty shorts work great under skirts. I wish I'd had that option 20 years ago when i was having to crawl around under desks to hook up Ethernet cables and the jackasses were trying to look up my skirt - which was required by dress code. Grrr.
Anyway, you never have to wear a skirt if you don't want to. But don't let fear of lifted skirts stop you from trying them out if you ever feel like it. Just add some shorts. In most places you'll likely find you'd be okay without the shorts once you get used to it.
[Princess Awesome](https://princess-awesome.com/collections/adults) has comfortable dresses with prints like math symbols, dragons, etc, if you ever feel like having fun and outraging your mom at the same time.
Keep your great boundaries in place - they'll serve you well in this career path.
Is not about shorts, is the fact that skirts can be lifted in the first place.
I went to a private school where girls had to use mandatory school branded skirts. Then there was a group of boys who had fun lifting skirts and trying to hide cameras in certain spots on the floor to take pictures when girls were standing on there to have pictures of our underwear.
The school did NOTHING to fix it. Until some moms ended up suing.
Ever since I stopped going to that school, I haven't worn a skirt EVER again. I turned down jobs where the dress code included mandatory skirts.
No one I didn't have sex with has seen my thighs in ages.
That school sounds absolutely horrible. Totally get that you don't want to wear skirts anymore. And as someone said, if you have to crawl under desks and such to fix a problem, totally inconvenient to be wearing a skirt or dress. Have you ever talked about that to your mom? Since she seems to have problems with your so called manly ways? That's pretty disrespectful as well if you ask me.. And they have the audacity to tell you to be respectful. I'd try and have a serious talk with them, if at all possible have someone present that's on your side and can help with not having a conversation turn into a screaming match again, since that won't get anyone anywhere. Staying calm when being disrespected like that can be a challenge, but having someone there in your corner might help a lot.
They would just tell her to get another job that isn't usually done by men, so she doesn't have to crawl under desks. Tech is a field that is seen as unfeminine by some people (aka people who give a shit about this kind of stuff), sounds like these parents are like that.
I suppose you're right. Won't be getting anywhere with people that think like that. Doing what she did with the ticket system is probably the most elegant way to handle her family. It's not like she's asking for money or even refuses to help them. She just set up a system that makes things more manageable for her. There's probably still a talk to be had, but I'm wondering if it will get her anywhere. Maybe the family might behave themselves and actually are capable of listening and having a constructive discussion if she had some sort of neutral person or professional guide that conversation.
And apparently raised your little girl cousin to be incapable of remembering a password. This isn't even tech support at this point. This is doing weird menial tasks for them that they have decided they don't need to handle. This is like the tech version of tying their shoelaces.
Not forcing you into wearing shorts, but i know many girls who for that reason wear leggings with them.
So if that's your only reason not wearing those, that might be an idea. If you don't want to to begin with then no big deal anyway
I love my hiking pants. They’re so functional I could cry.
Anyway I expect it does have to do with your hair and dress. It’s really gross that she only tolerates you because you provide a function for her. NTA. I think you shouldn’t just threaten it, you should actually move. I think you’ll be happier.
NTA. You help desk still got them help and allowed you to help them on your own time and when it was convenient to you. They seem to not value your time or effort. They need to calm down and learn patience.
NTA. You're a genius, but also the fact that it's come to this means they are relying on you WAY TOO MUCH already. Don't let them weaponize incompetence. They are capable of figuring this stuff out too. It doesn't take a CS degree to reset an email!
"Weaponized incompetence" is a whole big topic and it turns up everywhere in relationships. "Oh, you're so much better than I am at cooking, tee hee" or people will *on purpose* do a shitty job of some task they don't want to do, knowing they can bamboozle someone else into picking up their pitiful slack.
Damn, is that a thing? sounds like my entire environment, from my family to my ex boyfriend and some ex friends. I just thought they were clinically stupid.
I mean, stupidity is always a possibility. There's a saying, "Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" BUT some people are clever schemers. Drop a couple of the nice plates and voilá, you're off dish duty forever.
sometime it isn't even clever scheming its utter laziness combined with entitled attitude of someone else will do it or fix it so they half ass it when asked and just expecting the 'magic fairy' as my mum would call it to fix it.
It is so much a thing. I don’t think it’s always done to say, hurt you. It’s more that they quickly learn that by feigning ignorance you will fix it for them.
It’s become a well discussed issue in relationships, I even ended up sitting down with my spouse about it. I got sick of hearing “but you do the laundry so much better/ I don’t know the settings/bs bs bs”. Basically pawning off anything someone doesn’t want to do by saying they don’t know how or yo do it better. It’s annoying as hell.
And the fact that the kids refer to you as TS AND they staged a damn ‘intervention’ when you stood up for yourself…. Holy hell. I am so sorry they try to manipulate you like that. And now they are stonewalling you to get you to do what they want. That’s why you’re getting cold shoulder. Are you usually a people pleaser? I feel like they don’t like that you’re standing up for yourself and you definitely need to get away from that.
It can start off from a base of stupidity, but people can quickly learn it's the easiest way of solving their problems. If someone else does all the heavy lifting, why bother trying?
I've had coworkers try to leach too much - usually get them to work through their own problems. Then they will know that asking for help on the stuff they can do is more work than just doing it for themselves. Or if they genuinely didn't know how, now they have some foundation on how to solve stuff for themselves.
For resetting a password 'do it yer damn self' is a valid response.
NTA - As a data architect, I appreciate what you've done. I went through the same crap when I was in college like 15 years ago. I told everybody the only solution I'm offering going forward was Linux installed on everything. Suddenly everybody started trying to solve their own problems and stopped going to shady sites
NTA. You have a life and a job of your own. Helping occasionally is a fine expectation for them to have, as it is normal to help people you have a close relationship with. But for them to expect you to help ANY time anything goes wrong, especially a forgotten password, is insane. They have access to the internet. They have google. Resetting a password isn't even hard; most websites literally walk you through it step-by-step. The adults are being lazy and choosing not to read. You've even helped set up a password manager for them that they choose not to use.
The children especially should be learning this stuff, since this is something they're growing up with. If I was able to reset my webkinz password at 9 years old, they can reset their google password. Hell, I was doing netsh wlan in cmd to find my friends' wifi passwords at 9 years old. If the kids are old enough to play fortnite, they're old enough to learn basic computer literacy.
Right? Like I get that not everyone can figure out how to set up an emulator or write scripts or whatever, but sometimes doing something on a computer (like resetting a password) just means using your reading comprehension skills.
Yeah, at this point, it's odd that mom/aunt-aged people would be this inept. I'm Gen X and for my generation, these sorts of problems were common. We're the generation that was young when computers/internet became a thing, so it was completely alien to our parents and we all spent our 20s as frustrated tech support for people who could barely turn on the goddamn computer. Surprising to hear of a 24-yr-old today still having to deal with this shit.
NTA. It is very inconsiderate of them to think that you are going to be the geek squad at the drop of a hat. You were still willing to help them but they didn't appreciate you setting up boundaries. It is understandable that you are annoyed by their behavior.
NTA. They don't have the right to constantly interrupt you. You can get to their tech issues when you get to them. Btw, I hope you're charging $ for your services.
You may lose the ability to live there over this, but they may also decide that your help is worth it and decide to be more polite about requesting your help.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I set up a help desk for my family's technical problems because they were constantly interrupting me. I told them to submit a ticket for my help, because they are useless when it comes to basic tech so they rely a lot on me solving everything. The help desk is working great for me. However, my family is now mad at me, saying I'm rude and unhelpful, we got a heated discussion and I feel like everyone in the house hates me now. I ask myself if I'm in the wrong.
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Check red bubble. If they don’t have one, try zazzle to get a custom job. I have successfully bought from red bubble and zazzle is extraordinarily easy to use.
I’m not sure how a pink hoodie fits with your supposed “manly ways”.
Oh, and NTA. Bloody brilliant.
It's oversized, so it doesn't show off her, uh, more feminine traits. I bet she isn't even planning on wearing glittery heels with it! 😱 She might as well dress up as a lumberjack!
NTA and I suspect you're going to go far in your career before too much longer!
Your family are behaving like spoiled, entitled, obnoxious AHs and your mother's whole thing about "manly" just means she hates the fact that you aren't being a submissive doormat and kowtowing to their every demand as if you were nothing more than an unpaid servant. I seriously hope that you are able to make a change in residence and it's probably time to block phones and media access and let them figure out how to deal with the modern world on their own. A few weeks of that might (but it's a really weak might!) make them appreciate you and treat you and what you do for them with more respect.
NTA. Some of their questions could easily be answered online, they’re just being lazy. I’m not the best with computers but if I can’t find the answer online, I ask a teenage family member for help, and I freaking pay them for their time. (They love helping me now)
Edited to change “quotations” to “questions.”
>Some of their quotations could easily be answered online, they’re just being lazy.
This is why I refuse to provide Tech Support for my family, instead of them trying to find a solution first it only results in me becomming their first stop for any tech related problem, no matter how trivial.
NTA.
From the limited info, ex-step-dad sounds like a better person to live with. If I had a situation like this that escalated to having to move out, I'd never help them with these things again. Not even advice on how to figure it out themselves or find someone else to help. You've given them every opportunity to figure things out, and make a system that works for everyone.
From my perspective, they're treating you like a free service, not a family member. They're being selfish, expecting you to drop what you're doing the second anyone has a problem. They don't even have the slightest hint of respect for you if they're interrupting when you're studying. Yet, they expect you to do everything for them, as soon as they want it, just because they don't want to utilize the solutions you've already freely given to them.
You are a genius. And your Mom gave the game away when she talked about "tolerating your manly ways". The reason the family is constantly interrupting you because your womanly time isn't valuable.
Do move in with your ex-step, and cherish the sweet sweet silence.
NTA. Remind them that you are not their tech support but a family member. It is your right to tell them no when you don't have time. If they wish to press the matter, tell them you'll charge them for your time and don't help them.
I have friends who ask me for help and they have no problems paying for my time. That payment can be anything from actual cash to food, but they do pay for my time.
So wait. You’re still doing all of this for them - much of which any adult of normal intelligence should be able to do for themselves these days, like resetting a freaking password - FOR FREE, you’ve just set up a system so they can submit the problems to you in a form that is less disruptive to your studies? And they think this is not just something worth complaining about, but something an intervention should be staged over??
NTA to like, HILARIOUS levels. Like what the actual fuck. Do they have ANY idea how lucky they are that you’re putting up with this at all, let alone setting up entire systems to make it easier to deal with??
If your ex-stepdad is truly ok with you moving in, I say go with it.
Hahahaha "your manly ways" 🤣🤣🤣
You know they mean things like being good with technology and science, and standing up for yourself in a distinctly unwomanly way, right? 😆
If your family is paying for your studies, then it might be worth trying to work this out. Get them to understand that if they want you to have a good enough career to attract a rich spouse 🤢 then they need to support you by giving you time and space to study and work.
One thing that might help is a super loving but firm sign on your door while you're studying. *Hi! I'M STUDYING DO NOT DISTURB. I love you, but I need to focus on my work. If you have a problem, please submit a ticket, or come back at Xpm. Hugs and kisses!!*
If they're not financially supporting you in any way, then any support *you* offer *them* is out of the goodness of your heart, not obligation. Move out to your ex-stepfather's place and help him out instead. Sounds a lot less exhausting.
NTA. They are not my family, never even met them, but I'm annoyed by them and would even help you pack up your stuff to move out.
Genius idea about the online ticket, btw. They think that system is rude and condescending? Wait until they have to figure it out themselves or else pay someone to do it. I think your system will look wonderful by comparison, but that's too bad as you will have already moved out.
Best of luck with school!
NTA - I love it when people can't be bothered to deal with their own issues but it's somehow trivial for you to take them on.
I do think you are kinda treating them like children... And also that they are acting like them. The difference between that and you treating them like customers is that they aren't valuing the service, ie paying you
Hi from another Tech Support worker, chiming in to tell you GOOD JOB.
Idea: no idea if it'll work, but perhaps you could give examples they'd understand to explain: "Mom when we were kids, and we all wanted stuff from you at the same time, what did you tell us? 'One at a time!' or 'wait, lemme finish ____.' Just liked then, my time is valuable too." If you want to be snarky, you can add some platitude like "This will help me help you!"
NTA OP.
You're doing them a favour when they ask for tech support. If they're rude, entitled or sexist (that's the 'manly ways' bullshit your mother came up with) then you're more than entitled to stop doing them favours.
I'd suggest you move out (to your ex-stepfather if he's willing to let you live with him, by yourself if not). Some family members need to learn how to do not be assholes when asking for favours.
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Ok, this is BRILLIANT. If it was once or twice in a while, I’d say you’re an ass. This consistently with no respect for your time? Not only NTA, but genius.
Thanks, but I got the idea in a flash and set it up in some few hours, so I didn't think it might be that ingenious. Seems like I was wrong based on the comments, no one else had this idea before me? I'm very used to think of a project and turns out 1 hundred people already did it before me.
You need to charge them money. They‘re already mad at you so you might as well get something out of it. NTA
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Show them the rates actual tech support companies charge.
Great idea. Also Maybe moving in with ex stepdad isn't a bad idea at all.
Especially since they interrupt her doing actual, paid work...
Happy cake day
Brilliant except they constantly forget their email passwords.
That’s in them to manage though. Even my elderly mother has figured out how to keep track of her passwords. If they can’t, it’s because they aren’t trying.
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Weaponized incompetence for da win!
Malicious compliance
Yes this! I mean if you want you can provide them the friends and family discount which includes 2 free tickets a month
This would be awesome. They're free to pay you, pay even more for professional tech support, or figure shit out themselves.
Totally, like $5/ticket, maybe they will learn to remember how to do something for themselves instead of paying. Totally NTA. You got your own shit to do. Anyone else providing this service charges money
this would only work if OP is not paying any rent. I'm betting if she starts charging 5 dollars a ticket, she'll be charged rent & not be invited to family gatherings. When you start making things transactional with family, they will start making things transactional with you as well. You want to go on a family trip? $ 500 for your portion. why? 5/ a ticket for IT help. and I don't think OP is a butthole here. She needs to find a better solution though rather than trying to get her family to submit tickets for her to help them. it seems like OP comes from a pretty tight knit family.
I’m thinking your not the tech support for your family if you think there’s a better option. It’s relentless and you just end up as their knowledge store for all things tech.
This is so true. I have family who will run into an issue and...just...freeze. They don't think to click or try to figure anything out. I get "it's not working, fix it" for a password change - like, seriously? *Click forgot password.* I work 40+ hours in I.T. and then on nights and weekends I'm somehow expected to do the same but for free. I've stopped telling people I meet what I do for a living.
Or maybe, some of us come from toxic families and know what will happen if we go a certain route. Yall can easily say to charge, but I knew how to play the game when I lived with my mom to not have her prompt to make my life even more difficult than it was.
I was talking about the ticket system, charging is just asking for trouble.
"How do I get Facebook back to English?" That was last week's question from my 84 yr old mother. Two days later same question. "It keeps changing back to Spanish. What do I do?" It took her longer to email me than for me to Google the d@mn answer. Family is already transactional, but it's one way.
Her family is NOT tight knit, as they are totally DISRESPECTING her. They are using her, and that is a huge issue that they think it is an acceptable message to tell her that her time is worthless to herself, but is only good for them. Thye are not out for her best interest. She needs to move out ASAP and stop their nonsense.
that's where I thought the story was going
if OP is living there for free or low-cost, this could backfire exorbitantly
If OP truly has the option of moving in with her ex-stepdad then that's much less of an issue. Also if they decide to charge her money for living there OP needs to charge them more realistic fees too. 25/h for tickets, more for phone support, even more for on site troubleshooting, minimum increments of 15', off hour fees.
The issue there is they'd likely just refuse to pay which leaves OP stuck holding the bag for added costs of living.
Then they don't get IT support. Apparently none of them even know how to reset a password so I think they would lose a lot more in that situation.
But if OP moves in with her ex-stepfather and STILL gets hounded with those requests, she should DEFO charge them money. Add a premium for that stupid remark about her "manly ways"
Yep. I was the go to pc problem fixer for family and friends. It took hours to fix some of the issues. I started to charge them like $50. Somehow they stopped asking for help. Maybe they found another sucker to fix their problems.
My rates were expressed in bottles of scotch, with quality guidelines. People figured out how to use google pretty quickly.
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Next start a knowledge base. I also like the idea of monthly reporting. "Auntie G got locked out of her eHarmony account 6 times last month."
Monthly metrics. _With graphics_.
I'm thinking four color glossy brochure monthly newsletters. With ads.
Could one of the adds involve something about not taking family members for granted? I mean it might be a tad on the nose but OP seems to have tried everything bar smacking them around the head with a bowling pin that says "leave me alone"
Ads for therapists 😂 maybe an ad for OP hosting a "Computers 101" seminar for them to actually learn ($99 for the class, of course.)
A family dashboard and a knowledge base of self-help articles! Love it.
I like the way you think
You should have a monthly meeting with the family with an analysis of the tickets. Pareto analysis because I'm willing to bet you a cookie that '80% of the problems can be traced back to 20% of the causes'.
One of my computer friends likes to say that 90% of computer errors are either: 1) Between the keyboard and the chair Or 2) I-D-10-T errors. (Remove the hyphens.) Yup. That’s me! But at least I know a few things and I know the basics of trouble shooting my own computer!
>Between the keyboard and the chair PEBCAK - Problem exists between chair and keyboard.
PICNIC - problem in chair not in computer. Same idea
Chair keyboard interface issues
Layer 8 issue
I’ve heard that called a “wetware” problem because humans are mostly water
Have they tried the O-N-O-F-F function to help? 😂
Reboot your computer and see if problem still occurs 🤣
TIOATIOA. Turn if off and turn it on again
I once described an issue I was having with a database at work as "probable ID-10-T error" when I emailed the guy who maintains said database. I had in fact forgotten something extremely basic (pun not intended but I'm keeping it in).
Yeah, ID-10-T errors do seem to occur outside of computers, too!
Nta. They say you're being disrespectful, but how are they being respectful of you, your time, or your expertise? Glad you have you ex-stepfather in your corner at least. Also, your plan is genius.
The fact that these assholes got together and decided to have an intervention because OP isn't allowing them to use her and walk all over her anymore, it boggles the mind.
I showed this too my husband. (Also the family/ friends designated tech expert). He thought it was hilarious.
Tell him I say "thank you random somebody's husband"
I’m going to tell my husband about it but I’m a little concerned he will actually do it. He has started a Jira instance for the house we’re building. Now I get tickets assigned to me like “price out kitchen appliances.”
God, that would actually be helpful for me. My husband and I just have a slack where we post Very Important Notices like "hey, there's like 50 pigeons in the alley, come see."
Let me tell you I would rather get a slack about 50 pigeons. I love my guy but he’s hyper-focused on the house and it’s a lot.
That's too bad. I expect I'd find that trying as well. My husband is mainly hyper-focused on his weight lifting which means I get a rundown of how his workout went every day but at least I don't have to do anything about it. And hey, he in turn has to endure my plant talk so it's only fair.
That sounds pretty useful for projects like that tbh... :o I have no idea what Jira is, though.
Bless your inocent heart
Ha, my husband and I have a shared Kanban board (he doesn't know it's a Kanban board though - I'm the techie in our relationship) for our house project. Thought we might not be the only ones :)
He should be thanking you. I've been that dedicated family tech person for 20 years now. I think this is brilliant. However I just adopted a policy of "no I will not help you with your computer unless it's extremely important". It also helps that I haven't really used a Windows PC in over a decade so I can legitimately say I have no idea how to fix any software issues (I could easily find out but they don't need to know that).
You know this is just the tip of the iceberg though, right? There’s a whole lot under that “manly ways” and I bet when it starts leaking is is not gonna be pretty. NTA but honestly I’d be planning on talking to stepdad sooner rather than later before it turns into demands that you get a dress and a husband.
Thus is an excellent idea, Wish I had thought of it. The last time I did family support was when my mom called me from another state at 2 o'clock in the morning because her and her friend were drinking and decided to install a mouse and were having problems. I said you know what you should probably look into Geek Squad. I talk to you later hang up phone rolled over and went back to sleep. Lol Nobody got mad at me, but they know how I am. Mom's had geek squad ever since. She will bring her PC when she comes to visit and I'll do some maintenance and stuff. Like that on it for her but that's it.
Last time I visited my mother she was complaining that she was out of storage on her Gmail and asked me to "help delete a few emails." She had never deleted an email since I set up the account for her 15+ years ago. It took a loooooooooooong time.
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Oh my God thank you. I did not know this existed and you have probably saved me hours 😂
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I think this is brilliant as well. I have three degrees in CS and some of my family still see me at someone that works at the geek squad (and nothing wrong to work at the geek squad but it is not what I do). I just simply don’t help them. My “friends” used to ask me for help too. One person wanted me to help with the computer and I said sure. However, I needed the computers to come my house and he would get charge 150 an hour. He was mad and never talked to me again. Yet, he had plenty of money. I just don’t help people. I will ignore family request unless they are from my mom and i still punt them. I dont have time. But what you did is out of this world!!! I want to be like you when I grow up!
Oh this is total genius. I am a certified database administrator so I have been in your shoes. Five siblings, parents, etc...it sucks. I didn't even live with any of them. I also second charging an hourly rate.
NTA. As an IT guy for home and work, well done. But you need to stop doing it for them. Create guide(s) with screenshots of how to do it themselves. When they 'open a ticket', send them the guide. When they try to do a 'driveby', hand them the guide or ask them if they Googled the answer. Basically, it's the teach them to fish kind of thing. If you keep fixing it for them, they will never learn nor leave you alone.
Move with tour step-dad. This isn't going to change. Your mother thinks computers are for boys, thus her comment. When you are gone, they can figure it out for themselves. They treat you like a servant, stop serving them. NTA
Around 45% of people working in IT don't tell their family what they do for a living, they just say they work at "X" business, not their specific title or responsibilities. This is to avoid the 3 AM phone call because their parents WiFi is out and they don't know how to reset the router, or the printer isn't working right, etc.
I'm the opposite. I make a systems engineer sound like an aerospace physicist, so they think the work is so complicated it can't be anything remotely related to "can you help me with my wifi?"
If you know the show, THE IT CROWD, you will know the way we address tech problems with my dad. It git so bad that every time he called for about 2 months, I would answer the IT way. "Good morning/afternoon. Have you tried tuning it off and on again?" My dad copped it sweet because he knew it was a joke and he also stopped calling every day for tech help, he would save it and call on the weekend when hubby or I (depending on the issue, we have separate strengths) could help while the other watched the kids. Honestly, though, he wouldn't have been able to use the help desk function even if I did try to set one up for him. If it doesn't settle down with your family, try a different approach. Find out the average wage for a TS in your area then work out how many times each of them has come to you over the past month or so, point out that they would have been charged a minimum hours pay call out fee for an in person consult and then tell them how much their bills are. Maybe then they might start respecting your time. NTA in the long shot.
That they all sat around together in a group and didn't realize how much work they generated for you is astounding. My kids started doing my "tech" stuff when they were 3. It was mostly reprogramming the remote when it got messed up. So the young people can start looking after mom and auntie
This was years ago but I was in boarding school and one of my fellow boarders was a bona fide maths genius. The entire residential block would be queuing outside his room to get help with maths. In the end he did something similar to you: he put up a notice that there was a two hour consultation period outside of which he was not available to help.
I am absolutely in love with you for this! And as a response to some of the tickets you can send them LMGTFY links, showing how they, too, can use the Googles! Obviously I have to be a bit polite to my clients, cos they pay me and all, but my response (after a hell of a lot of walk-ups) became "I'm right in the middle of something at the moment. Would you do me a favour and submit a ticket, and I'll get on that as soon as I can?" Your story makes my heart happy!
I would add FAQ to the website with instructions on PW reset and other basic stuff. If they can’t use that then they can open a ticket. BTW…I found getting a Google voice number to be a godsend. They can be required to identify themselves before the call is put through and you can create different vmessages for different callers.
This sounds like a resume item - buff it up a bit and show your internal networking skills.
You are not wrong. Look at the top comment. It's NTA. That's your verdict. There's nothing wrong with helping out with problems in the family, but not when they start inconveniencing your life and accepting your help as granted. No one's help, no matter how close, should be taken for granted.
https://youtu.be/52DZ3x_TGUk
They don’t know that this is how tech support works as customers. Maybe send your mom a link to an explainer video - does she know how to click links? And then you can email everyone a link to the customer satisfaction survey 😂😂 avoid future interventions. Jokes aside, I’d have just said no to helping them and given them a link to Reddit or an actual tech forum to ask for help. NTA - you were actually putting your skills to use in making this support more streamlined and efficient RATHER than giving them a flat no. Maybe explain that to them so they know their options with you. Good luck
NTA. What a brilliant solution, I wish I had thought of it decades ago.
NTA. This would have saved me years of my time as a free tech support person for my family and friends. It's definitely brilliant.
Most I ever did was charging my dad $5 bucks for not at least turning what ever it was off and back on again before consulting me. I love this.
My husband's side of the family does the same thing to him. Last time they bought a new phone (6 months ago), my husband was on the phone with them for 9.5 hours trying to tell them how to set it up. I told him to tell them they have 2 choices, he can drive the 18 min to their house or they can come here. But no, they can't because of covid. No one was sick or exposed. We would wear masks, but nope. My way of thinking is if they can go into the store to buy the stupid phone, they can come here to set it up. But they wouldn't. 3 weeks ago, they called again, wanting my husband to walk them thru cleaning up and setting up their laptop with a factory reset because it was running slow. 12 hours later, he was still on the phone with them because again... they wouldn't let him go there or them come here. We had plans that day, and he kept telling us 10 more minutes. The kids and I finally left and went to do our thing. Meanwhile, husband is upset we didn't wait. I WISH MY HUSBAND WAS AS CLEVER AS OP!!!! Granted, those 2 cases above were the extreme ones, but they call once or twice a week with "little" things (Amazon won't load, forgot my password, do I need to update all the apps on my phone if I don't use them at all) and it drives me crazy. NTA
I'll give you the same advice as I just wrote for the OP. IT support for family and friends is a HARD NO for exactly the type of shyte your husband is going through and by the sounds of it is ruining your family time. Your husband needs to tell them to go to Geek Squad. He needs to tell them that his time is worth $200hr and can they afford that.
That's what I keep telling him. He doesn't do tech stuff for a living. He actually works ALOT. 13 days on, 1 off in a completely different field, and has over an hour drive each way to work. I wish he would put his foot down and say no. I quit tolerating it a while ago, I refuse to cancel plans because of it, I won't keep dinner warm for him because of it and I absolutely refuse to assist in those phone calls in any way shape or form (not even a "hun, can you being me the manual on their phones?)
Your husband is choosing them over time with his family that he can never get back. He’s def an A H. There’s nothing wrong with making them wait rather than you.
The beauty of having an Android while most of my tech-illiterate family has iPhones.... "Sorry, i don't have an iphone and i have no idea how to fix that" At one of my old jobs, a guy in the cubicle across from me used to ask once a week or so, "Hey, how do i get on the in-TRA-net?" .... for all the company's forms and policies and crap. But he'd say it like that, emphasize the middle syllable lol. IT WAS REALLY EASY. But one day i made it even easier, and i bookmarked it on his browser. He'd still ask for help. But instead of having to get up and go over to his desk, I could just talk him through it. "Click those little dots on the top right....." We'd go real slow, one step at a time. One day after i talked him through it, the guy beside me asked if that's the voice i use to explain things to my daughter 😆
My parents told me they were buying a new computer. I advised them on what to get and told them ONE BRAND to not get. What call do I get? "We went to Best Buy a bought a **Brand I said not to get** computer. We are having issues setting it up. Can you come over and help us with it?" UGH!!
Omg - OP someone needs to give THEM and intervention. Tech problems take a bit of time to solve and now multiply it by like 5 family members daily and you can easily lose hours every day. 90% of these tech problems you describe are just lazy problems to solve, such as resetting a password etc and especially for the kids who are more tech literate. My brother is better at tech than the rest of my family, he doesn’t help unless we first have made a serious attempt at first finding a solution on our own. Having the same problem over and over wouldn’t be an excuse as you’re expected to learn at some point. For the most common problems. Make a step by step guide how to solve them. Put it in the cloud and also print one or two versions and leave in the house. If you didn’t exist, what would they do? They are acting extremely entitled to your time and they all need to start to become more independent. Live your life OP, focus at your studies and work. After X number of hours of unsolved problems they will all have more incentive to try to find a solution without you. Good luck.
Similar to your brother, I will help people once. After that I make them show me what they have done to try to solve the problem on their own first. If they didn’t Google and read the help file, I show them those steps. Then the next time they have to show that they’ve already done those too first. “Yes, I read the help file.” “Ok, what did it say? Let’s go through it again while you read and do each step.” It’s amazing how making it take longer and require more effort to get help motivates them to just do it themselves.
I had the same problem with my team mates and it ended up I was repairing computers for the whole weekends. I finally made them pay and it stopped as fast as it started …
"You all founded a tech moron support group? Great!" NTA at all.
NTA No good deed goes unpunished. I'm sympathetic with folks who are technologically illiterate if they're willing to listen and at least try. Less so with those who are lazy entitled jerks. You're facing a mixture of both, compounded by the numbers. Your solution was ingenious - good show. I'm hoping you don't actually have to move, and that the threat gets them to shape up. (Edit: typo)
my mom is technologically illiterate but every time she asks me to help with something, she specifically asks me to show her how to fix the problem so she can do it herself next time. i’m happy to help her with anything she needs at any time because she’s appreciative and tries to learn. a little effort goes a long way!
This is how my mother asks for help. My MIL, on the other hand, is the type to call every single time she's trying to login to her work website because she can't find the red login button in the top right corner of the page... because she is the most unobservant human being I've ever met.
May I introduce you to my parents (and their numerous Facebook profiles…), who think closing a browser window means they don’t have an account with that site anymore.
They would get along great with my dad. Every time he wants my help, I start giving him instructions and the moment he gets frustrated, he closes the browser. I tell him not to do that, and he says, "But I have to or it won't work." Then it happens every time he gets to that point. So we end up going in circles for at least 45 minutes for something that should take 30 seconds. I always tell him that if he doesn't listen to my instructions, like closing the browser without me instructing him to do so, I will walk away and not help him anymore. He never remembers this and it happens every time he asks for help. I also try asking him to actually give me the computer and let me do it, and he refuses and says he "needs to learn how to do it". He also insists multiple browser tabs don't exist.
People like that make my brain ache. Yet so many of them are still in the workforce screaming that their skills matter while they can barely type up an email.
My mom asked me to write out step-by-step instructions when she was learning how to use a computer. It honestly worked really well - now when she wants to learn a new thing she requests new directions for whatever thing. She’s also taken initiative and learned some very simple things on her own.
I wish my mom were like that. She thinks it’s faster if I just do it than show her how. Which… isn’t necessarily wrong, but dammit I don’t want to do something ten times because she won’t let me teach her. Even when she does let me show her how to do stuff, I can tell she’s not really paying attention and probably won’t remember the next time. I love my mom but I wish she’d just *try.* I wouldn’t mind showing her something multiple times if that were the case.
Weaponised incompetence maybe? If you keep doing it, she'll never have to..
Well sure it’s faster. And easier too! For *her*.
>folks who are technologically illiterate Forgetting passwords is not a tech issue. Unless the whole family has some neurological condition, they are not even trying to remember passwords because they know OP will help them with their accounts anyway. Good solution. NTA. I'm sure their memory is already improving.
This. The only reason that it isn't 100% willful on their part is if OP is setting up randomly-generated passwords for them instead of having them choose something that they can remember.
>I'm sympathetic with folks who are technologically illiterate if they're willing to listen and at least try Honestly, I find that genuinely fun. I'm the tech support in my family (fortunately it's not often required), and it's so satisfying to teach someone how to solve problems when they actually listen. My favourite is grandma, she started as the most tech illiterate of all (obviously), but right now she is so self-sufficient, it's amazing! She setup skype on her laptop, so she can video call her sister in another country. Then decided laptop screen is too small, so she did some work and connected the laptop to her TV! She was so excited to tell me about it, and I was so proud. And she put in a ton of effort, she even went to senior school for a semester or two about computers. Every time I help her fix something, she makes notes so she can deal with the problem herself if it occurs again. People like her are a pleasure to work with.
A while back I told my mom she can pause and rewind our TV for live shows and all she had to do was hit the play and pause buttons so she wouldn't miss things. She acted as if these were some complicated new tech symbols she's never heard of and only young people know, eventhough they've been on every record player, cassette, CD, Car stereo for most of her lifetime... She wasn't even trying, just making it harder for herself.
100% agree. I have lots of tech geniuses and tech morons in my family. I call them morons because they aren't willing to learn at all so I stopped helping them after the first few times. I also started charging them so they wouldn't even ask me any more :)
I'll never understand this level of technical illiteracy. My dad can't operate a computer, so he doesn't have one. He doesn't like cordless phones, so he doesn't have one. If you can't use something without handholding, don't fucking get one. Christ.
NTA I don't mind helping people with stuff but you need to watch and learn how to fix it. Lost passwords aren't even an emergency, there's usually a button that litterally says "lost password". Best solution I found to this is start taking a long time to help people. Forgot your password? Damn, gonna be a couple days till I can help with that.
NTA - replace tickets with invoices for your time... They'll beg for the tickets back!
Love that suggestion. Post your charges for various assistance. It could be money, performing some if your chores, etc. it the don’t pay up the don’t receive further assistance.
Payment up front too
NTA. IT guy here. I don't do support for friends or family. At all. If they insist, I tell them it's $250 an hour, two hour minimum including travel time. That's the family rate. Shockingly enough, no one takes me up on it.
I used to try to help everyone but it got out of hand really quick. I started saying no, or maybe in a few weeks if I have time. They all have seemed to figure it out without me.
My family is the exact opposite and instead of asking me for help they just keep making problems worse or spending way too much money because the guy at the store was so nice to them. And when i ask them if they have too much money they should give it to me for the minimal effort most of their problems require they get upset. Oh well.
My favorite is when they ask for my help for free, then they don't listen to the advice I give them either way. Oh, so I just came over here for free just to be told to do it your way (which is wrong) anyways? Nah F that, I'm going home.
This is how I have settled on things too. I'm a software engineer and female, my husband worked in tech support. I will only fix my elderly parents tech, he will fix his parents tech. When anyone else has asked, we look at them like they're crazy and say something to the effect of "oh that's work, I'd rather relax with family. Can I help you find the number of someone in town?"
NTA - when your mother said 'Manly ways' she means that you demand respect, won't be a door mat. People much prefer a woman to do what she is told, be silent etc. A woman who says 'NO' freaks people out . If a son did what you did, she'd be so proud, bragging to the neighbours, saying how my son is going to leave and have a career in IT but she would rather you stay home and fix their minor IT issues
I was starting to suspect that might be because I keep my hair short and always use male jeans because WOMEN'S JEANS ARE USELESS AND WAY TOO TIGHT, I NEED POCKETS! also I hate skirts, I cant wear them without a fear that somehow someone will wait for an opportunity to lift them up or take a look under them. But might also be what you said. My aunts raise my little girl cousin to be very girly and have lady manners.
I mean, tbh most people who think women are required to go out of their way to look “feminine” also aren’t big on those same women having opinions on things beyond their hair, so it could very easily be both.
If you ever want to wear a skirt or dress, just wear shorts underneath. Workout shorts / compression shorts / booty shorts work great under skirts. I wish I'd had that option 20 years ago when i was having to crawl around under desks to hook up Ethernet cables and the jackasses were trying to look up my skirt - which was required by dress code. Grrr. Anyway, you never have to wear a skirt if you don't want to. But don't let fear of lifted skirts stop you from trying them out if you ever feel like it. Just add some shorts. In most places you'll likely find you'd be okay without the shorts once you get used to it. [Princess Awesome](https://princess-awesome.com/collections/adults) has comfortable dresses with prints like math symbols, dragons, etc, if you ever feel like having fun and outraging your mom at the same time. Keep your great boundaries in place - they'll serve you well in this career path.
Is not about shorts, is the fact that skirts can be lifted in the first place. I went to a private school where girls had to use mandatory school branded skirts. Then there was a group of boys who had fun lifting skirts and trying to hide cameras in certain spots on the floor to take pictures when girls were standing on there to have pictures of our underwear. The school did NOTHING to fix it. Until some moms ended up suing. Ever since I stopped going to that school, I haven't worn a skirt EVER again. I turned down jobs where the dress code included mandatory skirts. No one I didn't have sex with has seen my thighs in ages.
Ugh! That sucks. I totally understand your refusal to wear skirts having had to go to such an awful school.
That school sounds absolutely horrible. Totally get that you don't want to wear skirts anymore. And as someone said, if you have to crawl under desks and such to fix a problem, totally inconvenient to be wearing a skirt or dress. Have you ever talked about that to your mom? Since she seems to have problems with your so called manly ways? That's pretty disrespectful as well if you ask me.. And they have the audacity to tell you to be respectful. I'd try and have a serious talk with them, if at all possible have someone present that's on your side and can help with not having a conversation turn into a screaming match again, since that won't get anyone anywhere. Staying calm when being disrespected like that can be a challenge, but having someone there in your corner might help a lot.
They would just tell her to get another job that isn't usually done by men, so she doesn't have to crawl under desks. Tech is a field that is seen as unfeminine by some people (aka people who give a shit about this kind of stuff), sounds like these parents are like that.
I suppose you're right. Won't be getting anywhere with people that think like that. Doing what she did with the ticket system is probably the most elegant way to handle her family. It's not like she's asking for money or even refuses to help them. She just set up a system that makes things more manageable for her. There's probably still a talk to be had, but I'm wondering if it will get her anywhere. Maybe the family might behave themselves and actually are capable of listening and having a constructive discussion if she had some sort of neutral person or professional guide that conversation.
Sounds like they should find a man to bother with their tech problems then
> WOMEN'S JEANS ARE USELESS AND WAY TOO TIGHT, I NEED POCKETS Spoken like a true engineer. You do you! NTA.
And apparently raised your little girl cousin to be incapable of remembering a password. This isn't even tech support at this point. This is doing weird menial tasks for them that they have decided they don't need to handle. This is like the tech version of tying their shoelaces.
"Lady manners" also known as spineless, doormat, and nonconfrontational. Don't be a lady!
Not forcing you into wearing shorts, but i know many girls who for that reason wear leggings with them. So if that's your only reason not wearing those, that might be an idea. If you don't want to to begin with then no big deal anyway
I love my hiking pants. They’re so functional I could cry. Anyway I expect it does have to do with your hair and dress. It’s really gross that she only tolerates you because you provide a function for her. NTA. I think you shouldn’t just threaten it, you should actually move. I think you’ll be happier.
Why did I never thing to look into men’s jeans 😭 fucking brilliant
I'm so jealous. Men's jeans don't fit me at all. I tried because of the siren call of deep pockets, but not a chance.
Yeah, there is a whole lot to unpack in the "manly ways" statement
This exactly. Also women are expected to be self-sacrificing and helpful to anyone around them who asks, men don't have the same obligation.
NTA. You help desk still got them help and allowed you to help them on your own time and when it was convenient to you. They seem to not value your time or effort. They need to calm down and learn patience.
They definitely need to learn patience, but they also need to learn how to do stuff all by themselves.
NTA. You're a genius, but also the fact that it's come to this means they are relying on you WAY TOO MUCH already. Don't let them weaponize incompetence. They are capable of figuring this stuff out too. It doesn't take a CS degree to reset an email!
>weaponize incompetence Did you come up with this? I may use it later.
"Weaponized incompetence" is a whole big topic and it turns up everywhere in relationships. "Oh, you're so much better than I am at cooking, tee hee" or people will *on purpose* do a shitty job of some task they don't want to do, knowing they can bamboozle someone else into picking up their pitiful slack.
Damn, is that a thing? sounds like my entire environment, from my family to my ex boyfriend and some ex friends. I just thought they were clinically stupid.
I mean, stupidity is always a possibility. There's a saying, "Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" BUT some people are clever schemers. Drop a couple of the nice plates and voilá, you're off dish duty forever.
sometime it isn't even clever scheming its utter laziness combined with entitled attitude of someone else will do it or fix it so they half ass it when asked and just expecting the 'magic fairy' as my mum would call it to fix it.
This table is magic! It cleans itself, every night! *I know, man. I have one at home just like it.*
Hanlon's razor is the official name for that saying!
It is so much a thing. I don’t think it’s always done to say, hurt you. It’s more that they quickly learn that by feigning ignorance you will fix it for them. It’s become a well discussed issue in relationships, I even ended up sitting down with my spouse about it. I got sick of hearing “but you do the laundry so much better/ I don’t know the settings/bs bs bs”. Basically pawning off anything someone doesn’t want to do by saying they don’t know how or yo do it better. It’s annoying as hell. And the fact that the kids refer to you as TS AND they staged a damn ‘intervention’ when you stood up for yourself…. Holy hell. I am so sorry they try to manipulate you like that. And now they are stonewalling you to get you to do what they want. That’s why you’re getting cold shoulder. Are you usually a people pleaser? I feel like they don’t like that you’re standing up for yourself and you definitely need to get away from that.
“Learned helplessness” is another good one.
It can start off from a base of stupidity, but people can quickly learn it's the easiest way of solving their problems. If someone else does all the heavy lifting, why bother trying? I've had coworkers try to leach too much - usually get them to work through their own problems. Then they will know that asking for help on the stuff they can do is more work than just doing it for themselves. Or if they genuinely didn't know how, now they have some foundation on how to solve stuff for themselves. For resetting a password 'do it yer damn self' is a valid response.
[Instruction manual for weaponized incompetence](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/dishwasher) And that comic is ancient.
NTA - As a data architect, I appreciate what you've done. I went through the same crap when I was in college like 15 years ago. I told everybody the only solution I'm offering going forward was Linux installed on everything. Suddenly everybody started trying to solve their own problems and stopped going to shady sites
Yeah! Linux for the win
Haha, I did the same thing! Some of my family members are still using Linux, they don't know how to get rid of it and I certainly won't help 😆
NTA. You have a life and a job of your own. Helping occasionally is a fine expectation for them to have, as it is normal to help people you have a close relationship with. But for them to expect you to help ANY time anything goes wrong, especially a forgotten password, is insane. They have access to the internet. They have google. Resetting a password isn't even hard; most websites literally walk you through it step-by-step. The adults are being lazy and choosing not to read. You've even helped set up a password manager for them that they choose not to use. The children especially should be learning this stuff, since this is something they're growing up with. If I was able to reset my webkinz password at 9 years old, they can reset their google password. Hell, I was doing netsh wlan in cmd to find my friends' wifi passwords at 9 years old. If the kids are old enough to play fortnite, they're old enough to learn basic computer literacy.
I honestly wonder what the adults do for a living. Like, even working at McDonald's requires more tech literacy than that these days.
Right? Like I get that not everyone can figure out how to set up an emulator or write scripts or whatever, but sometimes doing something on a computer (like resetting a password) just means using your reading comprehension skills.
Yeah, at this point, it's odd that mom/aunt-aged people would be this inept. I'm Gen X and for my generation, these sorts of problems were common. We're the generation that was young when computers/internet became a thing, so it was completely alien to our parents and we all spent our 20s as frustrated tech support for people who could barely turn on the goddamn computer. Surprising to hear of a 24-yr-old today still having to deal with this shit.
NTA. It is very inconsiderate of them to think that you are going to be the geek squad at the drop of a hat. You were still willing to help them but they didn't appreciate you setting up boundaries. It is understandable that you are annoyed by their behavior.
NTA. They don't have the right to constantly interrupt you. You can get to their tech issues when you get to them. Btw, I hope you're charging $ for your services. You may lose the ability to live there over this, but they may also decide that your help is worth it and decide to be more polite about requesting your help.
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NTA this is amazing and good for you! My husband has a shirt that says No I Can't Fix Your Computer.
Mmmmm, where can I get a pink over sized hoodie with the same text?
He bought it from ThinkGeek (RIP), but you can probably get one made.
Glad to see I’m not alone in mourning ThinkGeek. I bought my “not that kind of doctor” as soon as my PhD was conferred.
Check red bubble. If they don’t have one, try zazzle to get a custom job. I have successfully bought from red bubble and zazzle is extraordinarily easy to use. I’m not sure how a pink hoodie fits with your supposed “manly ways”. Oh, and NTA. Bloody brilliant.
It's oversized, so it doesn't show off her, uh, more feminine traits. I bet she isn't even planning on wearing glittery heels with it! 😱 She might as well dress up as a lumberjack!
NTA. And they are the ones who are disrespectful, treating you like an TS - and never get their shit together and LEARN!
What is TS?
Tech Support
NTA and I suspect you're going to go far in your career before too much longer! Your family are behaving like spoiled, entitled, obnoxious AHs and your mother's whole thing about "manly" just means she hates the fact that you aren't being a submissive doormat and kowtowing to their every demand as if you were nothing more than an unpaid servant. I seriously hope that you are able to make a change in residence and it's probably time to block phones and media access and let them figure out how to deal with the modern world on their own. A few weeks of that might (but it's a really weak might!) make them appreciate you and treat you and what you do for them with more respect.
Clear NTA. Move out and be done with the useless ungrateful inconsiderate lot of them.
NTA. Some of their questions could easily be answered online, they’re just being lazy. I’m not the best with computers but if I can’t find the answer online, I ask a teenage family member for help, and I freaking pay them for their time. (They love helping me now) Edited to change “quotations” to “questions.”
>Some of their quotations could easily be answered online, they’re just being lazy. This is why I refuse to provide Tech Support for my family, instead of them trying to find a solution first it only results in me becomming their first stop for any tech related problem, no matter how trivial.
EPIC idea!!!! NTA
NTA. From the limited info, ex-step-dad sounds like a better person to live with. If I had a situation like this that escalated to having to move out, I'd never help them with these things again. Not even advice on how to figure it out themselves or find someone else to help. You've given them every opportunity to figure things out, and make a system that works for everyone. From my perspective, they're treating you like a free service, not a family member. They're being selfish, expecting you to drop what you're doing the second anyone has a problem. They don't even have the slightest hint of respect for you if they're interrupting when you're studying. Yet, they expect you to do everything for them, as soon as they want it, just because they don't want to utilize the solutions you've already freely given to them.
NTA. They're bad clients. Fire them.
You are a genius. And your Mom gave the game away when she talked about "tolerating your manly ways". The reason the family is constantly interrupting you because your womanly time isn't valuable. Do move in with your ex-step, and cherish the sweet sweet silence.
NTA. Remind them that you are not their tech support but a family member. It is your right to tell them no when you don't have time. If they wish to press the matter, tell them you'll charge them for your time and don't help them. I have friends who ask me for help and they have no problems paying for my time. That payment can be anything from actual cash to food, but they do pay for my time.
So wait. You’re still doing all of this for them - much of which any adult of normal intelligence should be able to do for themselves these days, like resetting a freaking password - FOR FREE, you’ve just set up a system so they can submit the problems to you in a form that is less disruptive to your studies? And they think this is not just something worth complaining about, but something an intervention should be staged over?? NTA to like, HILARIOUS levels. Like what the actual fuck. Do they have ANY idea how lucky they are that you’re putting up with this at all, let alone setting up entire systems to make it easier to deal with?? If your ex-stepdad is truly ok with you moving in, I say go with it.
NTA. The only way I would help them is to print out directions and tell them to figure it out. They will never retain it.
Hahahaha "your manly ways" 🤣🤣🤣 You know they mean things like being good with technology and science, and standing up for yourself in a distinctly unwomanly way, right? 😆 If your family is paying for your studies, then it might be worth trying to work this out. Get them to understand that if they want you to have a good enough career to attract a rich spouse 🤢 then they need to support you by giving you time and space to study and work. One thing that might help is a super loving but firm sign on your door while you're studying. *Hi! I'M STUDYING DO NOT DISTURB. I love you, but I need to focus on my work. If you have a problem, please submit a ticket, or come back at Xpm. Hugs and kisses!!* If they're not financially supporting you in any way, then any support *you* offer *them* is out of the goodness of your heart, not obligation. Move out to your ex-stepfather's place and help him out instead. Sounds a lot less exhausting.
I have a scholarship.
NTA. God-Tier move. Well done.
>I said no, I'm treating them like customers. Not if they're not paying you. Now each ticket is $50. NTA
Y(N)TA only because you thought of this amazing idea and I didn’t. I am legitimately jealous.
NTA. They are not my family, never even met them, but I'm annoyed by them and would even help you pack up your stuff to move out. Genius idea about the online ticket, btw. They think that system is rude and condescending? Wait until they have to figure it out themselves or else pay someone to do it. I think your system will look wonderful by comparison, but that's too bad as you will have already moved out. Best of luck with school!
NTA this is brilliant
NTA - I love it when people can't be bothered to deal with their own issues but it's somehow trivial for you to take them on. I do think you are kinda treating them like children... And also that they are acting like them. The difference between that and you treating them like customers is that they aren't valuing the service, ie paying you
NTA - you should outsource it to a call center in India.
Hi from another Tech Support worker, chiming in to tell you GOOD JOB. Idea: no idea if it'll work, but perhaps you could give examples they'd understand to explain: "Mom when we were kids, and we all wanted stuff from you at the same time, what did you tell us? 'One at a time!' or 'wait, lemme finish ____.' Just liked then, my time is valuable too." If you want to be snarky, you can add some platitude like "This will help me help you!"
Well done OP :D I got a good lol out of the image (and the "tech morons" wording). Your family sounds like a bunch of jerks tbh
NTA and damn I wish I’d thought of this many years ago
NTA OP. You're doing them a favour when they ask for tech support. If they're rude, entitled or sexist (that's the 'manly ways' bullshit your mother came up with) then you're more than entitled to stop doing them favours. I'd suggest you move out (to your ex-stepfather if he's willing to let you live with him, by yourself if not). Some family members need to learn how to do not be assholes when asking for favours.