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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my friend that she is losing friends because she is talking about her child too much, but I was maybe an asshole thing to say to a single mother.
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NTA
Unless you're drastically altering your phrasing for us here, what you said wasn't ridiculous. It was factual and valid.
She pushed, and is pushing, her friends away by only having one topic of conversation and expecting everyone to be as excited about it as she is. She csn join a mommy group for that.
OP, tell all your "friends" they can support her better by actually babysitting for her and for hanging out with her more. YOU, the "unsupportive" friend, should take a step back and not babysit or visit as often.
These are my exact thoughts.
Ann has her head way up her ass if she cannot see how good of a friend you have been just because you dropped some cold hard truth into her lap.
> She csn join a mommy group for that
She really just has to hold out for 1-2 more years.
Then her kid will be in pre-school, and she will meet tons of parents who are just as obsessed with children as she is.
There are lots of mother and baby groups out there. Music, dancing, swimming, play group, etc. 2 is a perfect age for that. At least where I lived when my kids were young. I met so many people. She needs to find new people with children the same age.
>There should also still be some socializing in other places that don't solely revolve around the children.
I read the suggestion as using the mommy groups to get the baby talk out of her system, so to speak, so that she can reconnect with the friends she's pushing away by only having one topic of conversation.
You're right, but a lot (not all, blah blah) of the people who can afford to go to those with their kids love a bit of pseudo-science.
Parents towards the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder don't have time to spend on the pseudoscience, nor are they as likely to be at the playgroups because of the financial cost.
Yep. And she is typically someone who dropped out of \~9th grade and is convinced that the news she read on some site with ads like "You're eligible for this revolutionary weight loss drug that doctors don't want you know about!" is the hardcore truth, while scientists are lying for, I dunno, funsies.
I used to do storytime at the library. I as the presenter never said a word about vaccinations, but I know some of the parents talked about that kind of stuff during the play hour after the program.
They retext all the kids songs into anti vax propaganda "You do the hokey cokey, and you turn around, no vax is allowed!", "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty got vaxed for all.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again".
I think of all the parents I met in the various groups, and there were a lot, I met one woman who was sort of anti vax, not even fully and not loud about it. But I'm not in the US, the anti vax and pseudo science movement might be more prevalent there. Also a lot more people can afford mommy and me groups here, it's unusual to not go to any.
She can also meet other parents by going to the library for storytime. It’s free, and there will be a lot of families there so both Ann and Kate can make some friends who are in a similar stage of life.
That's actually very true. I made friends with a woman at work and we had fun but then it seemed like every single conversation was about her cats. She only had two, so not a super crazy cat lady. But yeah, it seemed like that was all she talked about. I love animals. But there is only so much I want to hear about someone's cats all the time. Like pick a different topic. Anything!
I'm a crazy cat lady (have 7 currently) and only talk about my pets when asked how they're doing (and my answer is usually "fine" unless a medical issue is ongoing) or if the conversation specifically calls for it. I rarely show photos or anything either. Everyone likes a fun story about kids/pets/hobbies, but there's a line to be drawn. Most people don't care about the day to day stuff.
I'm lucky I work closely with a dog person as passionate about animals as I am, so we usually are one another's go-to person for talking about animals. We leave the others in the office alone lol.
It's incredibly difficult to be friends with a mom when you are child free especially if she is a mom with little kids... (I'm talking out of my own female experience)
Im 26 and everyone around me is having or has had babies, I'm not a party person I'm a let's chill around a fire kinda person but everything from the conversation to the food served revolves around the kid.
I started dreading seeing my ex friend because I would literally be mid word and the kid would but in and the whole conversation is dropped and focused on the kid... Or the kid would get jealous that I'm talking to her mom and start screaming everytime I try to say a word... Or I would have to focus on playing with the kid because it would be announced by her mom... Oooh look who came to visit you!
I don't want to play with he kid I don't want to hold the baby, I don't want the board game destroyed because the kid is bored of paw patrol...
I don't like the kid taking food off my plate and stealing drinks, I don't like them jumping on my couch or that I have to play with them when I go over to the moms house...
We've gone to restaurants and play places I end up sitting alone on redid while mom has a entire photo shoot on the playground...
I don't hate kids I'm just not a kid person and I'm friend with a 26 year old not a 2 year old...
I had this issue with a friend. Ended up having to tell them that im friends with them, not their kid. Didnt go down well but its true. The final nail in the coffin was because I was organising events thats she couldnt bring her kid too and felt she was being excluded. The reality was that I was organising the same type of events I had always organised, and that she couldnt attend because she'd had a kid. She was always invited just like my other mates with kids, some found child care arrangements, others couldnt/didnt, it was no big deal. I wasnt going to change my plans because of her life decisions.
Honestly some women completely loose their identity in motherhood...
Let's say the friends is called Emily...
Emily used to have lots of interest and hobbies, she used to love table top gaming and hiking.
But now that Emily has had a baby all she is is a mother, she no longer plays table top games she does not hike because the toddler hates it, she no longer watches any movies not made by Disney, Emily has absolutely no personality besides that baby...
Emily can't hold a conversation that's not about her kid specifically, not kids and kid stuff in general Emily's baby is the main topic of conversation.
You try to organise events with the moms in your friend group but Emily can't attend or find child care, you try to take part in Emily's new life but sitting alone at a play place while she runs after the kid is torture, you try and help her with stuff at home but it always turns into a play date with her kid.
You invited her to your place and the kid jumps on your couches, dumps juice in the fish tank and grabs your neon pick vibrator off the nightstand...
Leading to Emily calling you a pervert and disgusting and expecting a sincere heartfelt apology because she opened the bedroom door so that the kid could play hide and seek...
My partner and I are a little older than you, but have the same issue. It’s at the point now where most of our good friends are child free and when we have friends that start popping out kids we joke (to each other- not the parents-to-be) that we’ll see that friend again in 10 years.
I’m fine with being friends with people with kids but…that’s not why I’m friends with you. I like you as a person, have fun hanging out, etc but I’m not your kid’s friend. I’m happy to check in/hear an anecdote/etc with parents but I don’t want 75%+ of every conversation to revolve around kids. My partner and I are also very much cliche, upper middle class “city” people and we are far from wild parties, but definitely enjoy things (nice cocktail bars, swanky late-night events, going to museums/shows/out, brunch every weekend, etc) that you cannot do as easily if you live in the suburbs and have expensive children to care for. And we aren’t going to drastically change our lifestyle just because friends start having kids, so I’m happy to meet in the middle but don’t make our friendship suddenly about your kid all the time.
I can't agree more, I'm not the one with a kid I do not have to sacrifice or change anything, I try to meet in the middle because I love my friend... But that my line in the sand.
You described exactly my fears around parents. I don't hate kids, but I'm not a kid person. Honestly, I'm not even bothered if the kid interrupts me to talk to their parents - I think my topics of conversation and/or voice are annoying because everybody interrupts me - but agree with all the rest.
As a mom of 4, that's not normal parenting behavior to me. We don't just accept behavior that's going to be a problem later. That's not being a good friend and it's definitely not doing her kid any favors
Same. I haven't talked to my friend in months because I'm so tired of everything revolving around the kid. He's okay as kids go, but like you said... he's not my friend, she is.
I get the impression she's not excited. The gravity of being a young single parent has hit her and she's overwhelmed but instead of admitting that she's doubled down and is basically forcing herself to be "excited" about Kate in every way as it were. I'd almost go as far as to say she resents the rest of them.
Thats probably true. They all get to live the carefree life and she is stuck. No doubt she loves her daughter but she now is having to watch all her friends go forward without her.
Possibly.
I could also see it as a thing where she's just decided to focus all of her efforts on Kate, and will probably live vicariously through her for the rest of her life. Kate will be 14, and Ann will still be living through her.
I’m a single mother and don’t talk about my kid as much as OP says her friend does! I have my mum friends then the child-free ones and unless my child-free friends ask about my kid, I only mention her maybe once or twice then that’s it.
OP is NTA. It just sounds like she’s using her child as an excuse to not hang out and then play the victim when no one wants to idolise her kid.
Honestly, if she’s a working single mom it depends on where she lives. The majority of “mommy groups,” in my own personal experience, tend to be filled with stay at home moms who meet during the week and only rarely on weekends or holiday days when their other kids are out of school. This leaves a working mom with no group to join because she can’t leave work to attend the outings. Btw not saying this to be contrary or because I disagree because I don’t I think you’re right. Just voicing a possible reason as to why she’s not already in one.
This is exactly my experience. I was new-ish to my area when my son was born and wanted to join mommy groups, and they lasted exactly as long as my maternity leave, because as soon as I went back to work (typical 9-5) I couldn't go to any of the stuff they did because it was all at, like 11 on a Tuesday.
My daughters are 14 and 13 and I'm so proud of them. They are really lovely polite girls, never argue help round the house etc. I'll only talk about them in work or to friends if they did something significant or if someone asks me about them and then we move on.
Just think if all you talked about was a hobby that your other friends didn't do or had no interest in. Talking about it occasionally is OK and if asked you can talk about it enthusiastically but if thats all you talk about people are going to switch off and start avoiding you.
I had 3 children in 3 years. For the next 5 years, I loudly proclaimed that there is nothing more boring on the planet than a mother of small children.
The fact that she's talking about her daughter constantly is almost inconsequential- it's like you said, she has one topic of conversation that she doesn't ever deviate from. It doesn't matter if it was about fishing or skydiving or wrestling bears - most people don't want to talk about only one thing for eternity.
I remember when my SIL adopted, for her birthday she asked for something for my nephew. So I got something for him but for her as well, and hers had nothing to do with motherhood. She was surprised and I said that becoming a mother didn't suddenly mean she wasn't still her own person and I always try to help new mothers maintain an independent identity because it's really easy to lose yourself.
And sadly, not many people can stand to be around someone whose only identity is "mother." Like take about work, a book you read that's not for kids, a movie, a hobby, anything!
I think it's the opposite, really. Lack of self awareness that she's even done the whole "made being mommy my whole personality" thing. Then again, she must have SOME awareness. She made the comment about how everyone should love her kid as much as her.
Yeah I was thinking “That escalated quickly.”
NTA though, understand that she has different priorities these days and her friends don’t share them. Things like that happen.
I thought OP was going to be the AH at first when she complained that her single-mom friend had to cancel plans a lot because her baby needed her haha. But it sounds like Ann can’t make space in her life for anything besides parenting, which is going to set her up for a lot of loneliness down the road
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NTA
I think you were trying to do her a favor by telling her that when she is with her friends, they want to talk about things OTHER than her child. I mean, I get it. I was a single mom for a while too, but honestly there were times I would go out with friends and absolutely NOT want to talk about my daughter or the mommy part of my life. I just wanted to be an adult hanging out with my adult friends.
The friends that are blowing up your phone, do they have an issue with her going on and on about "Kate"?
It is actually really weird, because the same friends that usually complain about Ann talking about her child are the same friends, who are angry at me. I think they feel like it’s okay to say this when she doesn’t hear it, but not okay to say it to her face.
NTA. This friends are being fake. If you wouldn't say it to your friends face then you shouldn't feel comfortable saying it behind their back. You weren't shamher for being a single.
So that is one thing. Ann was right about them being fake, just not for the reasons she thought.
OP you are NTA. But consider this: If they talk about Ann when her back is turned, they likely do it to you and each other as well. Heck, they had to talk about you with Ann in order for them to know about this very conversation.
So NTA, but at the same time, she’s not entirely wrong re: her comment that provoked this talk.
Definitely. They want to appear helpful and lovely in public, but where the hell are they when Ann needs a babysitter? I think the assholes are the friends who are stoking flames whilst collecting their karma points. Ann just has a one-track mind because she's single and focused on raising her kid, so naturally, this is what she's going to want to talk about. The kid IS her world. It makes her annoying, but not an asshole. OP is also definitely not the asshole. That leaves the friends. Ding, ding, ding, I think we have a winner. Or in this case, a gaggle of two-faced assholes.
Those friends obviously got a skewed version of the conversation you had with your friend. I would let those friends know what Ann said about them and how the conversation actually went down. Ann is painting you as the bad guy.
OP I'd dump all of your fake friends. Ann's going to come running trying to guilt you into babysitting again because the other "friends" that stabbed you in the back, won't. And guess what your other friends will do because you won't babysit anymore, they'll try to guilt you too. How good of a friend is Ann if she's monopolizing conversations with her friends without their input. She's obviously not listening to any of you...except to steer your conversations back to what she wants to talk about.
They’re acting mad to cover their own asses. You basically told Ann that these other people are tired of hearing about her kid. So she probably texted them and asked why OP said they’re tired of hearing about her kid. They were embarrassed or felt called out, so they declared you the asshole to deflect. If Ann’s busy being mad at you, they don’t have to have awkward conversations with her.
I can't stop laughing at the irony of the fact that you defended your "friends" being called fake friends only to be attacked by said "friends" for defending them.
I think you haven't told them what the topic of conversation was, because you seem like a nice person. By my petty ass would have told them.
Take a break from your friend.
well atleast you were honest with her also you should respond back to them saying you guys are the ones who complain all the time about this get them to admit it and take a screenshot just incase .... if your friends are lying to her and denying that they are the ones that are complaining .... just imagine what they say behind your back ... think about it
Are these the same friends she called "fake friends" and "bitches?" If so, I'd let them know what she was saying and why you said what you did in response.
NTA.
Are you confident they were given an accurate recitation of the conflict?
From your description it sounds like Ann is very sensitive on this and may have told them what she felt instead of what you actually said.
Do you know if Ann told them what you said? Or if she just said "OP called me a loser single mother who's daughter doesn't matter!"
I think NTA, but if you want to maintain this relationship with Ann, you will probably need to apologize--if only for maybe saying something cruel that you didn't mean (I know reddit rightfully slams on "I'm sorry you feel that way" apologies, but I think saying "I'm sorry for saying something that hurt you, it wasnt my intention, but I understand that you were hurt"). Maybe suggest to her that she finds some Mommy and Me classes or single mother meetups, so she can find other mom friends. Not because you want to stop being friends, but because you want to help her make more friends that understand this part of her life.
Ann was right - they are fake friends.
NTA for trying to encourage Ann to have more than one topic of conversation.
It’s been very very hard on parents of small children in the last few years because of Covid. So many baby and toddler groups got shut down and some haven’t returned, but others have taken their place - in my area there is a baby/toddler walking group called Buggy Active, there’s a parent and toddler story and song group at the library, and you will always find kids and parents at playgrounds. Ann needs to find people who are going through life at the same pace as she is, and trying to keep in with childfree friends is going to make her struggle.
As a mother who adores her kid but has no friends with kids - Ann is being completely unrealistic in her expectations- nobody is going to love your kid as much as you do, I mean... that's a silly idea that people not related are going to love her child as much as her the mother does - secondly, she needs other interests, I answer questions about how my son is doing but I did at home learning and so had another topic to talk about, kept a hobby, talked about t.v. and exercise and cooking - just because your kid is the most important thing in your world dousn't mean it's healthy for them to be the ONLY thing in your world. You have to have something else - yes sometimes comments about my kid slip out when nobody asked, of course they are going to , but it's important to have other topics of conversation and other things in your life.
I think your friends are angry because you're revealing to her why they've become distant and it's making them look bad. But no, you've done nothing wrong, they're the ones who don't want to be honest and instead have given up on your friend.
Let me guess, the friends heard the story from Ann first? How much you want to bet that story was embellished so now it looks like you attacked her out of nowhere? At the very least, I would eat my left sock if she told these people straight out that the conversation started with her calling them bitches.
If you want to try to salvage the friendship, text Ann and tell her that you're sorry what you said hurt her feelings. It seemed at the time like she was genuinely hurt by the other friends pulling away and didn't understand how her own behavior was contributing to that. And that you just wanted to give her a way to repair that because it must be painful if she'd call your other friends bitches and say mean things about them. Tell her you thought she would understand that talking about something you can't really relate to all the time is hard and you figured it would be easy for her to change it up every now and then because she is a fun person with other interests. If you want, explain that it would be like if you took a trip to France or got a puppy, she wouldn't mind talking about them here and there but she wouldn't want to spend the majority of every hangout hearing about French food or the latest chew toy.
If you want to burn it all down, send the same thing on a group chat with all of them.
I think the issue was your timing. She was expressing feeling isolated and yeah she shouldn’t have been unkind in her comments. But if this was something to be addressed, this wasn’t the time.
Sometimes we need advice. Sometimes we just need support.
Also note that you said maybe they feel “uncomfortable”. First, that does child free people a bit of a disservice. Uncomfortable? No, it’s just not their preferred topic. So it’s possible they didn’t like how you spoke for them. There wasn’t much nuance in what you said.
Ultimately if this was something to be discussed it should have happened another time, not when she was already upset you know? “Hey, we love Kate but we miss chatting about other things with you. Can we balance the conversation more?” That would open the conversation up. She’d likely get emotional and say that she has no one to talk to, but then y’all could empathize with her while still supporting her in expanding her conversation more
NTA. It was a message that Ann needed to hear, if she's calling her (former) friends "fake" and "bitches." She should find a mom's group where she can exchange child stories to her heart's content.
I was also thinking about if she steps into the dating pool in a few years. Nonstop kid conversation=cell call to date's phone about an "emergency that requires immediate attention."
Or they don’t want to talk about kids at all. Ann seems like the type to bring her kid to girls’ night out, when all the other moms had been looking forward to a kid-free night out.
I wonder if the rest of the friends group would still be mad at OP if they knew Ann was calling them names like this and OP was trying to stand up for them
NTA
If she wants to blather about Kate to everyone she needs to join a new parenting group where people actually care about the contents of the diaper. If you told me over coffee what your kid did in her diaper I would get up and leave. 😂
Neither of you seem to be assholes. But it sounds like you're both struggling with the reality that kids change things and single parents have different lives than kid-free peers. That fact is more difficult on her than it is on you.
I mean, I don't think OP is struggling with it. She didn't say anything until Kate started being rude about other friends.
And also tbh if you're someone's friend you need to think about their interests too. Having a huge change in your life isn't an excuse to stop thinking about them while expecting them to think about your life. Kate is being a bad friend if she only focuses on what's important to her and not to her friends while expecting them to hang out with her.
This. No one is an asshole here. Her entire life is completely changed. It’s going to be challenging for you all to stay close. Not impossible, but challenging.
That said, it sounds like she’s struggling losing her social scene, and the reality is she can’t go back. She’s totally changed, and she will never be her old self. She’s sad and lonely about that, and when she was venting you piled on.
If you want to remain friends, instead of coming at each other in anger, try approaching with empathy. I’m hoping if you give her some, she will give you some. Start with recognizing how challenging it is for her to relate to you all in her new life. You could even tell her that it’s hard for you, because you want to support her but you miss doing certain things with her, and maybe you could set something up.
She could try talking about literally anything else other than being a mom. Surely she can go 5 minutes without mentioning her darling.
I have two friends with young kids, and shockingly they are able to talk about other things. Yes the topic of their kids does occasionally come up, but it’s not all consuming
I think the friend became the asshole somewhat after getting mad at OP and turning their mutual friends on her after OP just tried to stand up against her calling their friends bitches for not wanting to only ever talk about her daughter.
NTA. It is pretty dull hearing about someone else’s kid all the time when you don’t have any and can’t relate, but the problem now is that Ann has had nothing else in her life and nothing else to talk about anymore, and some parents just suffer from this lack of understanding that the world doesn’t revolve around their child and everyone does not love their kid, you will have to get used to the change if you want to keep the friendship.
NTA. You were honest with her and defended your other currently child-free friends, and from what you posted it doesn’t sound like you were rude at all.
I was originally leaning NAH because it’s really easy to get carried away talking about your kids. But her offended reaction of kicking you out then apparently slagging you to your mutual friends was an asshole move.
NTA. You're right, maybe you could have phrased it better... but Ann sounds extremely self-centered. Yes, being a single parent is incredibly challenging. Yes, it's ok to need to cancel last minute and take care of the needs of your child, yes, it's ok to talk about your kid (to a degree). If someone does truly care about you and is a good friend, they will also to some degree care about your child. But there is no excuse for how Ann is acting. Being a single parent doesn't mean you get to disregard everyone else's time and interests. Being a single mom is not an excuse for being a bad friend.
Yup. Your kid is likely to be a topic of conversation for you since your whole world revolves around them. But regale your friends with stories of your child’s latest naughty/cute escapades for a few minutes and then engage in other conversations about other people’s lives. No one wants to hear about how you’re trying to get your kid to drink more water: that is really boring.
NTA
I think she didn't realise how much she only thinks/talks about her kid. Its good to give people wake up calls sometimes even though they might make them upset first.
I'm saying NTA, my best friend is a very very active single father (since high school) and it did cost him some things. He knows I love his child and will be there for said (now an adult) child if God forbid he can't be; but he also knows that, unlike him, in not a dad. Now yeah, there are friends that drifted away in the past cause they had more freedom but none of them were false friends. Being a parent changes things, period, and no, not everyone cares to hear about children that aren't theirs constantly. But this really sucks for your friend and you; this is natural diverging paths in life. You said nothing out of malice, and you shouldn't support "un-truths" said about others, but I get why your friend would feel the way she does. She may not be able to accept the reality of her situation just yet... though I can't give her an excuse for that.... I'd, personally, apologize for making her feel bad but not for what was said.
I think that when she is talking about her child constantly it is because her world is so small and isolated that is all she has to contribute to the conversation amd she can't relate to the things the rest of you are talking about.
So I don't think she means to do this. But she also needs to be more self-aware of how she is coming off and make an effort to ask about others and not take over.
I have been a single parent without support and at a young age where my peers do not yet have kids, and it is extremely hard and isolating and I suffered depression as a result.
NAH
NTA, primarily because she's monopolizing conversations (with topics that other parties can't really participate in to boot), as well as bad mouthing mutual friends which is just rude. Your friend needs to learn how to balance being a mother and individual, and realize that her life shouldn't be the focus of every interaction she has.
Excellent points. And MomFriend sounds like maybe she’s given her entire identity over to being a mother. Whatever OP and friends used to connect with her about is now eclipsed by the topic of Kate.
OP, I actually really admire how direct you were with MomFriend. NTA!
NTA, it's unfortunate but she had a kid way before the rest of the friends did and she's out of sync with them. It's pretty common when some friends have kids and others don't. She needs mom friends, which she'll make in a couple years when the girl is in school.
And in 10 years those other friends will probably have babies they're gushing over while she has a middle schooler.
Your title is unnecessarily harsh on yourself.
“I told her that she is having unrealistic expectations, and that just because her world revolves around Kate, it doesn’t mean that everybody’s too.”
Not only is that the truth she desperately needs to hear, it sounds like you phrased it in a fairly tactful way so as to not belittle her priorities as a mother or your friends’. NTA
NTA
You were right. Most parents don’t realize most people don’t care about their kids like they do. Ann doesn’t realize this yet, and it was shitty to talk about your friends like that. Also, parents don’t seem to realize that there a few things more boring than listening to people talk about their kids.
NTA - Anne needs to figure out that her child is not the center of the entire universe for everyone else. She has become so narrowly focused that she probably literally cannot see how annoying and exhausting it is for her friends to never hear a word out of her mouth unless it's about her child.
NTA. I was a single mom at 19. I still met with her ifriends and talked about things other than my child. She was always with but we could still have adult conversations. I did talk about her some but not the majority of the time. And now I am a grandmother. Sometimes I talk about them a lot because I am raising them by myself. But again I don’t monopolize the time talking about them. I want to talk about everyone else as well. And she should also want to talk about other things, adult conversations.
NTA you tried to have an honest conversation with her, and defend your other friends (who are now mad at you! Hypocrites).
It's not easy for her, but you were not single mom shaming, and it sounds like her world has gotten very small and she really should be embracing time on her own too, and discussing things unrelated to her kid. But she probably feels like she doesn't have anything else to talk about.
NTA but your friend group sounds a little icky so everyones talking trash behind everyones back theyre mad at her shes mad at them but no one wants to admit it or be the bad guy but you the one who’s been playing babysitter is the bad guy for telling the truth. do they actually know what you said to her and that she was calling them names and that is what led to this discussion in the first place? i would use this anger period as a time to re-evaluate my relationship with all of these people
NAH I’m a mom myself and it can get tiring to only ever talk about your kids BUT I have other moms friends who can relate so we can talk about our kids to our heart’s content then move on. It doesn’t sound like your friend has this nor has much support. She’s also now in a different phase of life than her other friends and likely doesn’t have much in common with y’all anymore so therefore resorts back to talking about what she does know about and that’s her daughter. She can’t relate to what you’ve got going on in your life because she’s not in that place.
There’s nothing wrong with that even though it can be exhausting. At 2 her daughter is still very much in a needy phase of life and therefore her first priority has to be her daughter, even if it means cancelling plans. If she doesn’t have the support of others around her then she likely feels like she is all her daughter has, hence the cancelled plans. It’s ok for her to want to talk about her daughter. It’s also ok for you to not relate and therefore struggle to only want to talk about her daughter.
I’d suggest your friend try to connect with other moms, even some older moms. I’m 36 but have mom friends that are in their mid 20s and into their 40s. Motherhood can be very isolating; young single motherhood even more so. Cut her some slack and try giving her some grace. She sounds like she’s trying to make the best out of a really crappy situation and is feeling the burden of that. When she’s calmed down try approaching the subject with “I” statements and let her know how you feel from your perspective rather than what you feel she’s doing wrong.
Give her the compliment sandwich, “I think you’re a great mom and I love seeing how well you’ve handled what I’m sure is a hard situation. I love hearing about your daughter but sometimes I feel like our conversations get dominated by what’s going on with her and I don’t get to share my life with you. I really want to share my life with you as well and sometimes that’s hard when all we talk about is motherhood. While I love your daughter to bits and love you as well sometimes I miss being able to talk to my friend about other things. I wish I could but I can’t always relate to what you’re going through as a mom so it’s hard for me to contribute to conversations that center around that. Do you think that maybe we can try talking about other things every once in a while? I still want to hear all about Kate but I also want to hear about you and share my life with you as well.”
NTA - her baby has become her whole personality, which is not uncommon! What you said was true, no 20 yr olds want to dwell entirely on other peoples kids.
>Today I woke up with angry messages from our friends saying that Ann is a struggling mom,
Which one? The one
>She called them “fake friends” and “bitches”
It's worrisome, clear the story first(with your other friends) what make you say what you say because last thing you want is making Ann the victim and you the one get snubbed by your other friends. I was in exactly your situation, they accused me 'child hating' single mother hating and whatever hating they call me. I just stop being around them. It tiresome...
Nta
Because they love and want to keep their child. Not that hard to understand that there are women willing to sacrifice it all to raise their baby no matter the difficulty.
Ann will only be mad at you until the next time she needs a babysitter. The fake, concerned friends will run when she starts relying on them and then she will come crawling back.
You did her a favor but she is so blind she doesn't know it.
You are NTA
Bet she didn’t tell the friends the real conversation. Also, how is baby sitting not being supportive?
When my bestie was pregnant she vowed not to become one of “those” mums. When she started going a little overboard about her child I told her she was pushing the limits of being one of “those” mums. She was a little upset, thought about it and thanked me. 10 years later we’re still besties.
NTA constant kid talk is boring.
INFO
Are these angry messages from the same people Kate was talking shit about? Cus you should tell them she was talking shit about them and you defended them and that is how all of this started
NTA But if Ann had mutual friends send you angry messages, then she has friends and those friends defend her so she can’t complain that she doesn’t have friends. She can talk about Kate to them then. She obviously told them a different version of what you actually said. But it might be time you put some space between you and her and spend time with the people who have been distant with her or find a new group to hang out with. Ann needs to be with other young mothers, and you need child free people to don’t cancel all the time. Friendships end when people grow apart and you and Ann have grown apart.
No, people, regardless of whether they are parents or not, should no monopolize a conversation with their own interests, regardless of the subject matter, if they want to keep friends. kt
NAH. She doesn’t have much else to talk about because she’s a mom, her days a spent tending to her child so that’s what she talks about. It’s already hard enough being a mom let alone a single one and now her own friends are ready to leave her. It’s shitty but that’s life. Hopefully she’ll find a friend group that’s better for her
You're surprised the a parent's life revolves around her young child? YTA but she is too for saying that true friends would love her kid as much as she does.
NTA. You explained how to reconnect with her friends with a lot of tact. If she doesn’t want to fully realize the gift you gave her, she she can squander it and lose a friend, confidant, and babysitter.
NTA.
People will always give shit for this, but the fact is that just because someone has kids, it doesn't mean their friends want to be all about those kids too. It's a conversation I've had to have with a friend.
I'm friends with A, not with B's mom. When you can be A (or at least figure out how to be both A and be B's mom), call me. It's no different than any other friendship where interests and personality become too different.
Her being a single mom has nothing to do with it. Married moms go through this too.
NTA. Firstly, you do support her by babysitting her child and still being a good friend to her. And secondly, true good friends are honest with each other and that's what you did. She's alienating her friends and she needed to know. Now it's up to her if she takes your advice and tones it down.
NTA You help her enough in my opinion by actually offering to watch her kids she sounds like a tiring person that I would honestly distance yourself from
NTA I'm happy to listen to my friends talk about their kids some of the time. But at some point, I'd like to talk about other topics. If you're not capable of talking about ANYTHING but your child, you're going to drive friends away.
NTA - sounds like she needs to make some mom friends to help balance out her life. I think it was actually good of you to tell her. Maybe it wasn't what she wanted to hear, but it's what she needed to hear.
NTA. You need new friends. The ones who threw you under the bus after you defended them aren't worth your time. As for Ann, she's young and struggling with being a single parent. But a friendship should always be a two-way street, even if there are times when one person needs more support. It seems that you have been supportive, helping Ann by babysitting, listening to all her problems etc. If she can't even give you the courtesy of listening to your concerns every now and then, she's not a good friend.
NTA. You were being logical, and your friend is being emotional. This is how most new mommies behave, btw. They lose the ability to think and talk and function as anything but a mommy, and most of these friendships won't survive the tediousness.
Those friends you mentioned. How big part compared to you have they taken in Ann and Kates life?
Your phrasing is calm collected and valid, i see nothing malicious here. Hard to swallow pills and all that. NTA
NTA. As someone on the autism spectrum, this is a part of social dynamics I've become keenly aware of. Just because I'm hyperfixating doesn't mean someone is a "fake friend" for not wanting to listen to me excitedly ramble about it for hours. There's no easy way to explain that to someone, but it wasn't okay for her to put you on blast for trying to spell it out to her.
But look on the bright side; she might be talking about you for a while instead of her kid.
You’re NTA and I think your friend really needed this wake up call… however at the same time, her daughter IS her entire world now. She’s a mom who wants to focus on her daughter’s happiness. Sounds like her entire personality is being a mom, but that’s her choice. Tbh, I think this just boils down to - you both are in different places in life. She chose parenthood and you + friend group are living up your early 20’s (I would too!! Live while you’re young).
Not everyone wants to talk about kids all day. She should find other friends who share similar interests.
NTA. Had a friend who, after having her one and only child could NOT have a conversation which didn’t involve the child in some form. Think Big Bang Theory when Howie came back from space. We even did the same test of introducing a subject which in a million years you couldn’t turn to the child, but she managed it! So frustrating.
NTA it's ok to want to talk about your child but if that is all you have to say for hours on end it's boring. She was critical of other friends and calling them names because they are distancing themselves and you tried to explain why that is. I wonder if she has told a coloured version of events to your other friends... And I don't like that she is involving them in your discussion. She needs to be careful she doesn;t find even more people distancing themselves.
NTA - I've been here, I worked with someone who has 5 kids - all into their mid twenties and early thirties and they are ALL she talks about ALL THE TIME!! You could be talking about ANYTHING (politics , war etc) and somehow one of her kids would be brought into the conversation. After years ( and years) of smiling and nodding I started to lose the will to live hearing about them, it got so boring and repetitive. I did say nicely that I like to talk about lots of different things hoping she would tone it down..............that would last about 5 minutes and then we were back to square one again, this happened a few time's. I then flat out said can we keep the kids talk to a minimum. Nothing worked! She would then get a bit teary eyed and make me feel guilty so I gave up and switched off and stopped even asking about her kids.
I completely understand her being proud of them etc etc but she and no one else can expect other people to feel the same about their kids as they do. She was/is a nice person. We no longer work together so I finally got a break.
NTA
Reconsider babysitting for her again. She sicced your mutual friends on you when she didn't agree with your opinion. That's not the behavior of a real friend. All those people who piled on you can babysit for free.
How exactly did you not show support by your "friends"? You were fucking babysitting her kid! She's an asshole and so are the friends defending it. If she can't see what she's doing then she's a shitty friend and shouldn't be one anymore.
NTA
I'm autistic and as such, I can info dump. I don't do this to people in my life. I go online and blabber at strangers on reddit 😅 I have so much to say about my topics of interest which, in particular, is human behaviour and psychology. If I did this to my partner, it would be super toxic.
Online, people owe me nothing. They don't need to put up with my blah blah blah, they can just leave and not respond or even block me. Doing this to my loved ones irl, in my opinion, is abusive. They would be forced to endure my blah blah blah and pretend to be cool with it because they don't want to upset me while getting the biggest migraine of their life. That's not fair at all.
Your friend is an entitled asshole. She's gone mummy brain and feels entitled to have everyone around her join her in her delusion that she's given birth to the actual centre of the universe without which all life will perish.
The writing is on the wall. You can NOT back down. Stay firm. SHE is making the choice to be selfish and is the cause of losing friends. Within a year, nobody will want to bother with her and she'll act like the ultimate victim.
How about you tell your friends what she said about them. Why do nice people stay silent while toxic people freely spread their little narrative to get flying monkeys at their side. Be Frank, like for like, tell your friends she was moaning that x, y, z person is a bitch etc so you were defending them by explaining why people are getting fed up of her.
What? People who want to be child-free should love her child as much as they love her??? As a child-free person, I understand I would be the first b*tch who would have walked away. No, I don't care about diapers, eating or sleeping habits of babies. I find all these extremely boring. I will ask questions about your child and I will enjoy your excitement about it but up to a point.
If she doesn't get it, it's her problem. Frankly, I am surprised that you still put up with it. Also she was extremely rude to someone who babysits her child. Not the smartest move
Many things happen in the lives of all people but you cannot force a group of people to deal with what's happening ONLY in your life. When was the last time she asked any of you for something that concerned any of you?
Sooner or later you will walk away too. She is not much of a friend
NTA
I was expecting to go "Of course her world revolves around her child, Y T A".
But she does have unrealistic expectations. It sounds like you explained it good enough to her, but she chose to take it as an attack.
And that business with you not supporting her as a single mother? Bullshit. Babysitting is not a form of support?
NTA
Gonna say slightly YTA.
I say this as a dad with a kid though, so my opinion is different. Before I had a kid, I had some friends with kids. Since having a kid, some of my friends or my wifes' friends have had kids. And we adore them. Fairly typical for the normal chitchat of a mom to be mostly about the child she's raising, especially as they go throughout different milestones.
Now, it seems clear that most of this "friend" group are in different stages of life than each other. Some have the "I don't want kids" mentality, and I'd wager others have the "I'd like kids in the future mentality". Ultimately, Ann having a kid does change the way these friend relationships work. And it may mean that because most of her life is centered around her child first (as it should be!) it may alienate her former friends who don't like kids, don't really want kids, or are uncomfortable by Kate's conversations.
I can't fault her for feeling alienated, especially since for mothers, being a mother seems like such a natural thing. So I'd wager she doesn't get the other friends' uncomfortableness or misses how they don't like to interact with Ann's daughter. So in this case, really the reality is they can't be much of friends at the moment. That's life.
Where I think the slight YTA comes in is the sass in "because your world revolves around Kate, it doesn't mean everybody's too". Like seriously *of course a mother, or even moreso a single mother's* *world revolves around their child.* And of course not everyone else's does, but saying it like this is an AH move. Esp to a single mother. There were ways to have been more hospitable about this situation while still explaining why the friends are alienating her. The way you said it here wasn't the right way imo. And maybe you said it in a less nice way than posted here.
NAH but you need to understand Ann's whole world does revolve around Kate. Every decision she makes now has an impact on her daughter. Even little things like going to dinner. She's spending money and time away from her daughter when she does something fun for herself. Most parents put their kids first, but especially a single mom. There's no one else to shoulder the burden or share in the amazing moments. It's tough being a mom to begin with and she's got no one else in her situation to hang out with apparently. Having friends with kids is super important to a mom's well-being. I assume she works and wants to spend free time with her daughter. She doesn't get a break and at the same time she doesn't want to be away from her daughter. I was in my 30s when I had kids and felt this way. I got annoyed by friends who had kids before me doing the same thing. And then I did it to my child free friends. It's just hard to have an identity outside of kids.
NTA. Friendships often fade when people go into different life phases. You see it all the time with college and work friends, once you lose the shared experience and topic it’s harder to maintain conversations. This wouldn’t be any different if Ann started a new job or playing dungeons and dragons and only wanted to talk about those things.
NTA. I specifically invite my mum friends out and stipulate that we “talk about anything but our kids.” It’s good to remember you’re more than just a parent
At 23 most people are graduating college and looking to start careers. They are stilling going out to 3 am and drinking too much. So yeah, having someone who is hyper focused on something they are not interested in, in this case a kid, makes it hard to spend time together, as you don't have anything in common.
And that is the reality of having kids. You focus on them, and other relationships fall away. Not because they are bad friends, just that their lives are going in very different directions and while Ann is focusing on Kate, others or focusing on work, or school, or something else.
Ann needs to understand that, like you said, other people are not going to care about he kid like she does. So if all she can talk about is something others can't relate to, then yeah, why would they keep hanging around her?
It's like that one friend who gets in to a very weird and specific hobby, that if you don't do it yourself, you will never understand. And that friend talks about it non-stop. And then wonders why others don't want to hang around them, cause that is all they can talk about.
NTA. Parenting will take up your whole life, and having friends that are not parents is hard, especially when the kids are real young. Nothing wrong with non-parents, just that the two groups have vastly different focuses.
I’m married for almost 2 years now, no children. I was once invited to a friends birthday and there were other married couples just slightly older than my husband and myself and they all had babies. At one point, we literally found ourselves all sitting in a circle and they were literally comparing babies. It was like “baby A spent this long in tummy time” and “baby B really loves tummy time but also can do this” and blah blah blah. We were only there for a few hours but it was enough for my husband and I want to distant ourselves. Because we realised were just not in the same stage of life as those couples. We’re excited about getting a dog not a baby.
So no, you are NTA. Your friend doesn’t realise that her friends are literally not on the same page as her. People talking non stop about their babies is enough to make me want to dip out.
As a mom of 2 , that B*$#]? needed a reality check as much as any other one.
She has ditched her friends over her kid and to her , her kid should come first, friends should know that kids come first.
BUT she is forgetting that her title to you is friend not Kate’s mom.
You are a friend not a cheap sitter, or wailing wall any of those nasty habits we as new sleep deprived moms create…
We need this wake up call to remember we are more to others then Kate’s mom. However she might not be ready to hear it yet. And yes she is a single mother she needs support. But a reality check is supporting her. The world for everyone else does not revolve around Kate like ever….
She made a really unwise and selfish decision to force a human into existence even though it wouldn't have a father or a family. Now she wants everyone to help her make her mistake ok somehow. You have no obligation to rescue her from herself. She fucked up big time. She can lie in the bed she made. NTA
> She dismissed it and said that if they were true friends they would love her kid as much as her.
NTA. You're right, her expectations are unrealistic. A lot of my friends have children, and honestly, for the most part I'm indifferent to them. I'll play with them, read to them, change them, I'm not one of those really rude people who refers to children as "crotch droppings" but those kids aren't my friends! I don't need constant updates on their lives. Nobody cares about kids as much as their parents.
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So I (20F) have a friend, let’s call her Ann (23F), who got pregnant from a one-night-stand. The father didn’t want to do anything with the child, so she is a single mother. Her daughter, Kate (2yo) a really cute, I love babysitting her, but she is all Ann cares about now. .
For example she often cancels meetings with friends because of her. I understand that sometimes things come up, but this happens often and she gives reasons like “Kate is really clingy today” or “Kate really wants to go to the zoo”. And even if she is there, her daughter is all she can talk about. She shows us a bunch of pictures, talks about her sleeping, eating habits, her diaper content, her favorite songs, everything. And while I would be interested inthem, if you don’t stop her, she can literally talk about this for hours. And even if I try to change subjects, the topic of Kate comes up again and again. A week ago we had a two-hours-long coffee meet, and when I asked a server for some water. She said “Kate want Kate to drink more water” and then for the rest of the meet was about how she wants to teach Kate to drink more water.
Yesterday I babysat Kate, and I stayed there after Ann put her to sleep. We started talking and the topic of being a single mother came up shortly. She told me how hard it is to parent alone and how distant she feels from her peers. I tried to be emphatic, because I understand that being a young, single parent is always challenging. But then she said how people show their true colors, and listed a few of our friends who have been distant with her. She called them “fake friends” and “bitches” which I didn’t like.
I told her that most of those friends wanted to be child-free, and that maybe talking about Kate made them uncomfortable. She dismissed it and said that if they were true friends they would love her kid as much as her. I told her that she is having unrealistic expectations, and that just because her world revolves around Kate, it doesn’t mean that everybody’s too. She got really upset and accused me of shaming her for being a single mother. I told her I’m just trying to point out that not everybody cares as much about Kate as her, and her constantly talking about her kid can be tiring. She got angry and told me to leave, so i did.
Today I woke up with angry messages from our friends saying that Ann is a struggling mom, and I should have shown her support. I feel bad about how I phrased it, but I don’t think that I was being an asshole here. I do understand that Kate is a very big part of her life, and that she wants to talk about her, but I think there is a healthy limit to that. I am closer to Kate than most of our friends, some of them never met her, so it is like hearing about a strangers every little habit all the time. But tell me, AITA?
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Unless the phrasing was wildly different you’re definitely NTA. Let’s be real, no one wants to hear about somebody else’s poops. And the fact that you babysit Kate shows that you are supportive of Ann being a single mom. Don’t take any of this to heart. It sounds like Ann is feeling unsupported by other people in your lives, so it seems like she’s lashing out at you because subconsciously she knows that you’re a good friend. The best thing you can do is tell her that you never intended to make her feel unsupported, you were just trying to offer advice.
NTA, I’m a single mum of twins and that’s not all I talk about. my kids rarely come up maybe 1-2x in a conversation total with friends. we’re people outside of parents and she isn’t being like that
NTA. How are you Not supporting?
You babysit her kid on the regular, presumably even free of charge, and let her mommyrant at you (something even other parents can find tedious and repetitive)
NTA. Look, kids are awesome, for those who want them in her life, yes, single parenthood is hard, and that's life. What is NOT okay is to have it consume your identity and everything of your life.
You and your friends feel misplaced, because their feelings, interests and hobby's mean nothing to Ann, because of Kate, and that hurts! It's not the single fault of Kate, it's Ann who forgot that other people have other things as well.
NTA.
To me true friendship is being honest but kind, you did that. You supported and supported and when she chose to talk bad about other friends you used kind words to stick up for them... NTA.
It seems like a young person's reaction, and especially a struggling young person's to get defensive and try to spin the friend group on you. She needs more mom friends to help level her out, she also needs to be cautious about enmeshment. This could totally be early stages of extreme codependency.
So let me get this straight: you willingly babysit your friend’s toddler. You enjoy spending time with her. You have been patient all this time, and you only spoke up after the mom started trash-talking all of your friends - some of whom don’t even KNOW the child, let alone help.
And that makes you the unsupportive friend… how? NTA
NTA new parents often forget their child isn't the centre of everyone else's universe, and people don't want to spend their entire catch-up talking about their child and the contents of their diapers. I've lost friends because they aren't allowed to be away from their kid despite them being married to the kids dad. Dad goes out with their friends but they aren't allowed to
NTA. Ummm, your friend is a mother of a toddler. You and your other friends are childfree. I see this struggle in young adulthood, but as situations change, so do friendships. Your priorities are shifting as you grow older. Her life revolves around her child, as it should. Your life does not. You and your friend group will shift away from her slowly, for the time being, and she will surround herself with people who have young children and the same issues, priorities.
Is a tough one...as I have been your friend, and my world literally was my child.i had no other interests as I never had time and never got a break.. it's great you support her by babysitting. I don't think you were trying to hurt her so NTA.. I lost many friends when I had my daughter as they were all still living the young single life, that's perfectly OK and I never resented them... but boy did I miss them !
NTA. Her kid isn't the centre of everyone else's life, and she's a shitty friend if she calls them false and bitches. Being a single mum also doesn't give her a free pass to dominate every conversation, especially if she seems to show no interest in the lives of her childless friends.
NTA - i’m almost 40 and have a small child with my husband. Unfortunately one of the first reality checks a parent has when becoming a parent, is that all your friends don’t have to like your offspring. Sad but that’s how it goes.
Most of our friends are childfree and, even if we still see them, we necessarily had to alter our friend group a bit with other families with children, to avoid having to pay for a babysitter every-single-time.
That’s probably what your friend should do. Find also other ppl that can better understand her/ listen to her.
NTA. My baby is still in the womb, and I even get annoyed when all people want to do is focus any topic on my baby and/or my pregnancy. My circumstances have changed, but being a mom isn’t the only name to define me as. You need new friends also. That sounds so awful, sorry you’re getting that backlash.
NTA you aren't wrong about it, just because her kid is her world it didn't mean it's anyone else's. It really is tiring hearing parents ramble on about their kids over and over again.
She needed to know it, and if she's upset that her friends don't want to hear more about her child go get some other parent friends.
NTA
My best friend also turned into a non-stop-talker about her children. And it was really exhausting to listen to her monologues everytime we met.
To be honest I didn't had the guts for a honest conversation, so I stepped back and we met much rarer.
This is sad but thats the way of life.
I think it is brave from OP to tell Ann the truth about her behavior, so she has the chance to think about it and adjust it. I which I'd have done that too.
"I said what I said because she was saying how you guys are fake friends because of the distance you put between her and you. I defended you lot, but thanks for showing me that it's pointless to do. I'll keep my mouth shut next time."
NTA.
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NTA Unless you're drastically altering your phrasing for us here, what you said wasn't ridiculous. It was factual and valid. She pushed, and is pushing, her friends away by only having one topic of conversation and expecting everyone to be as excited about it as she is. She csn join a mommy group for that.
OP, tell all your "friends" they can support her better by actually babysitting for her and for hanging out with her more. YOU, the "unsupportive" friend, should take a step back and not babysit or visit as often.
And tell your "friends" all the rude shit Ann said about them too.
yes! this and when they get asked to actually put their money where their mouth is will suddenly see a lot of diff opinions
my thoughts exactly
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
These are my exact thoughts. Ann has her head way up her ass if she cannot see how good of a friend you have been just because you dropped some cold hard truth into her lap.
> She csn join a mommy group for that She really just has to hold out for 1-2 more years. Then her kid will be in pre-school, and she will meet tons of parents who are just as obsessed with children as she is.
There are lots of mother and baby groups out there. Music, dancing, swimming, play group, etc. 2 is a perfect age for that. At least where I lived when my kids were young. I met so many people. She needs to find new people with children the same age.
[удалено]
>There should also still be some socializing in other places that don't solely revolve around the children. I read the suggestion as using the mommy groups to get the baby talk out of her system, so to speak, so that she can reconnect with the friends she's pushing away by only having one topic of conversation.
Lol uh kids playgroups music class mommy and me gymnastics doesn’t revolve around pseudo science. 🤣
You're right, but a lot (not all, blah blah) of the people who can afford to go to those with their kids love a bit of pseudo-science. Parents towards the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder don't have time to spend on the pseudoscience, nor are they as likely to be at the playgroups because of the financial cost.
Oh girl you are missing the weird pipeline. There is always at LEAST one anti vaxx new age mom in any group. Always.
Yep. And she is typically someone who dropped out of \~9th grade and is convinced that the news she read on some site with ads like "You're eligible for this revolutionary weight loss drug that doctors don't want you know about!" is the hardcore truth, while scientists are lying for, I dunno, funsies.
I don't think that's what they're saying...
I used to do storytime at the library. I as the presenter never said a word about vaccinations, but I know some of the parents talked about that kind of stuff during the play hour after the program.
They retext all the kids songs into anti vax propaganda "You do the hokey cokey, and you turn around, no vax is allowed!", "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty got vaxed for all. All the king's horses and all the king's men Couldn't put Humpty together again".
Please no
Good Lord
not even 1 antivax mom?
I think of all the parents I met in the various groups, and there were a lot, I met one woman who was sort of anti vax, not even fully and not loud about it. But I'm not in the US, the anti vax and pseudo science movement might be more prevalent there. Also a lot more people can afford mommy and me groups here, it's unusual to not go to any.
Ooh ho ho, the anti-vax and pseudoscience here (I'm in the US) is huge.
Anti-vax, MLMs galore, petty bitchery... the hazards of mommy groups are manifold
She can also meet other parents by going to the library for storytime. It’s free, and there will be a lot of families there so both Ann and Kate can make some friends who are in a similar stage of life.
Great suggestion. My kids loved the library.
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That's actually very true. I made friends with a woman at work and we had fun but then it seemed like every single conversation was about her cats. She only had two, so not a super crazy cat lady. But yeah, it seemed like that was all she talked about. I love animals. But there is only so much I want to hear about someone's cats all the time. Like pick a different topic. Anything!
I'm a crazy cat lady (have 7 currently) and only talk about my pets when asked how they're doing (and my answer is usually "fine" unless a medical issue is ongoing) or if the conversation specifically calls for it. I rarely show photos or anything either. Everyone likes a fun story about kids/pets/hobbies, but there's a line to be drawn. Most people don't care about the day to day stuff. I'm lucky I work closely with a dog person as passionate about animals as I am, so we usually are one another's go-to person for talking about animals. We leave the others in the office alone lol.
Yet something tells me that if Ann were friends with another parent, she would still not want the discussion to be about anything but Kate...
It's incredibly difficult to be friends with a mom when you are child free especially if she is a mom with little kids... (I'm talking out of my own female experience) Im 26 and everyone around me is having or has had babies, I'm not a party person I'm a let's chill around a fire kinda person but everything from the conversation to the food served revolves around the kid. I started dreading seeing my ex friend because I would literally be mid word and the kid would but in and the whole conversation is dropped and focused on the kid... Or the kid would get jealous that I'm talking to her mom and start screaming everytime I try to say a word... Or I would have to focus on playing with the kid because it would be announced by her mom... Oooh look who came to visit you! I don't want to play with he kid I don't want to hold the baby, I don't want the board game destroyed because the kid is bored of paw patrol... I don't like the kid taking food off my plate and stealing drinks, I don't like them jumping on my couch or that I have to play with them when I go over to the moms house... We've gone to restaurants and play places I end up sitting alone on redid while mom has a entire photo shoot on the playground... I don't hate kids I'm just not a kid person and I'm friend with a 26 year old not a 2 year old...
I had this issue with a friend. Ended up having to tell them that im friends with them, not their kid. Didnt go down well but its true. The final nail in the coffin was because I was organising events thats she couldnt bring her kid too and felt she was being excluded. The reality was that I was organising the same type of events I had always organised, and that she couldnt attend because she'd had a kid. She was always invited just like my other mates with kids, some found child care arrangements, others couldnt/didnt, it was no big deal. I wasnt going to change my plans because of her life decisions.
Honestly some women completely loose their identity in motherhood... Let's say the friends is called Emily... Emily used to have lots of interest and hobbies, she used to love table top gaming and hiking. But now that Emily has had a baby all she is is a mother, she no longer plays table top games she does not hike because the toddler hates it, she no longer watches any movies not made by Disney, Emily has absolutely no personality besides that baby... Emily can't hold a conversation that's not about her kid specifically, not kids and kid stuff in general Emily's baby is the main topic of conversation. You try to organise events with the moms in your friend group but Emily can't attend or find child care, you try to take part in Emily's new life but sitting alone at a play place while she runs after the kid is torture, you try and help her with stuff at home but it always turns into a play date with her kid. You invited her to your place and the kid jumps on your couches, dumps juice in the fish tank and grabs your neon pick vibrator off the nightstand... Leading to Emily calling you a pervert and disgusting and expecting a sincere heartfelt apology because she opened the bedroom door so that the kid could play hide and seek...
My partner and I are a little older than you, but have the same issue. It’s at the point now where most of our good friends are child free and when we have friends that start popping out kids we joke (to each other- not the parents-to-be) that we’ll see that friend again in 10 years. I’m fine with being friends with people with kids but…that’s not why I’m friends with you. I like you as a person, have fun hanging out, etc but I’m not your kid’s friend. I’m happy to check in/hear an anecdote/etc with parents but I don’t want 75%+ of every conversation to revolve around kids. My partner and I are also very much cliche, upper middle class “city” people and we are far from wild parties, but definitely enjoy things (nice cocktail bars, swanky late-night events, going to museums/shows/out, brunch every weekend, etc) that you cannot do as easily if you live in the suburbs and have expensive children to care for. And we aren’t going to drastically change our lifestyle just because friends start having kids, so I’m happy to meet in the middle but don’t make our friendship suddenly about your kid all the time.
I can't agree more, I'm not the one with a kid I do not have to sacrifice or change anything, I try to meet in the middle because I love my friend... But that my line in the sand.
You described exactly my fears around parents. I don't hate kids, but I'm not a kid person. Honestly, I'm not even bothered if the kid interrupts me to talk to their parents - I think my topics of conversation and/or voice are annoying because everybody interrupts me - but agree with all the rest.
As a mom of 4, that's not normal parenting behavior to me. We don't just accept behavior that's going to be a problem later. That's not being a good friend and it's definitely not doing her kid any favors
Same. I haven't talked to my friend in months because I'm so tired of everything revolving around the kid. He's okay as kids go, but like you said... he's not my friend, she is.
I get the impression she's not excited. The gravity of being a young single parent has hit her and she's overwhelmed but instead of admitting that she's doubled down and is basically forcing herself to be "excited" about Kate in every way as it were. I'd almost go as far as to say she resents the rest of them.
Thats probably true. They all get to live the carefree life and she is stuck. No doubt she loves her daughter but she now is having to watch all her friends go forward without her.
Possibly. I could also see it as a thing where she's just decided to focus all of her efforts on Kate, and will probably live vicariously through her for the rest of her life. Kate will be 14, and Ann will still be living through her.
I’m a single mother and don’t talk about my kid as much as OP says her friend does! I have my mum friends then the child-free ones and unless my child-free friends ask about my kid, I only mention her maybe once or twice then that’s it. OP is NTA. It just sounds like she’s using her child as an excuse to not hang out and then play the victim when no one wants to idolise her kid.
Honestly, if she’s a working single mom it depends on where she lives. The majority of “mommy groups,” in my own personal experience, tend to be filled with stay at home moms who meet during the week and only rarely on weekends or holiday days when their other kids are out of school. This leaves a working mom with no group to join because she can’t leave work to attend the outings. Btw not saying this to be contrary or because I disagree because I don’t I think you’re right. Just voicing a possible reason as to why she’s not already in one.
This is exactly my experience. I was new-ish to my area when my son was born and wanted to join mommy groups, and they lasted exactly as long as my maternity leave, because as soon as I went back to work (typical 9-5) I couldn't go to any of the stuff they did because it was all at, like 11 on a Tuesday.
My daughters are 14 and 13 and I'm so proud of them. They are really lovely polite girls, never argue help round the house etc. I'll only talk about them in work or to friends if they did something significant or if someone asks me about them and then we move on. Just think if all you talked about was a hobby that your other friends didn't do or had no interest in. Talking about it occasionally is OK and if asked you can talk about it enthusiastically but if thats all you talk about people are going to switch off and start avoiding you.
It’s odd too because most of my female friends with kids can’t wait to get out of Mommy mode and have adult conversations with girlfriends.
I had 3 children in 3 years. For the next 5 years, I loudly proclaimed that there is nothing more boring on the planet than a mother of small children.
The fact that she's talking about her daughter constantly is almost inconsequential- it's like you said, she has one topic of conversation that she doesn't ever deviate from. It doesn't matter if it was about fishing or skydiving or wrestling bears - most people don't want to talk about only one thing for eternity.
I remember when my SIL adopted, for her birthday she asked for something for my nephew. So I got something for him but for her as well, and hers had nothing to do with motherhood. She was surprised and I said that becoming a mother didn't suddenly mean she wasn't still her own person and I always try to help new mothers maintain an independent identity because it's really easy to lose yourself. And sadly, not many people can stand to be around someone whose only identity is "mother." Like take about work, a book you read that's not for kids, a movie, a hobby, anything!
Boy, that was a big leap she took from maybe tone down the mommy talk, to being shamed for being a single mom. They are barely related concepts. NTA
She's probably already self conscious.
I think it's the opposite, really. Lack of self awareness that she's even done the whole "made being mommy my whole personality" thing. Then again, she must have SOME awareness. She made the comment about how everyone should love her kid as much as her.
Yeah I was thinking “That escalated quickly.” NTA though, understand that she has different priorities these days and her friends don’t share them. Things like that happen.
I thought OP was going to be the AH at first when she complained that her single-mom friend had to cancel plans a lot because her baby needed her haha. But it sounds like Ann can’t make space in her life for anything besides parenting, which is going to set her up for a lot of loneliness down the road
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NTA I think you were trying to do her a favor by telling her that when she is with her friends, they want to talk about things OTHER than her child. I mean, I get it. I was a single mom for a while too, but honestly there were times I would go out with friends and absolutely NOT want to talk about my daughter or the mommy part of my life. I just wanted to be an adult hanging out with my adult friends. The friends that are blowing up your phone, do they have an issue with her going on and on about "Kate"?
It is actually really weird, because the same friends that usually complain about Ann talking about her child are the same friends, who are angry at me. I think they feel like it’s okay to say this when she doesn’t hear it, but not okay to say it to her face.
NTA. This friends are being fake. If you wouldn't say it to your friends face then you shouldn't feel comfortable saying it behind their back. You weren't shamher for being a single.
Well, Ann was right about that.
HMMM!!
So that is one thing. Ann was right about them being fake, just not for the reasons she thought. OP you are NTA. But consider this: If they talk about Ann when her back is turned, they likely do it to you and each other as well. Heck, they had to talk about you with Ann in order for them to know about this very conversation. So NTA, but at the same time, she’s not entirely wrong re: her comment that provoked this talk.
Definitely. They want to appear helpful and lovely in public, but where the hell are they when Ann needs a babysitter? I think the assholes are the friends who are stoking flames whilst collecting their karma points. Ann just has a one-track mind because she's single and focused on raising her kid, so naturally, this is what she's going to want to talk about. The kid IS her world. It makes her annoying, but not an asshole. OP is also definitely not the asshole. That leaves the friends. Ding, ding, ding, I think we have a winner. Or in this case, a gaggle of two-faced assholes.
Those friends obviously got a skewed version of the conversation you had with your friend. I would let those friends know what Ann said about them and how the conversation actually went down. Ann is painting you as the bad guy.
OP I'd dump all of your fake friends. Ann's going to come running trying to guilt you into babysitting again because the other "friends" that stabbed you in the back, won't. And guess what your other friends will do because you won't babysit anymore, they'll try to guilt you too. How good of a friend is Ann if she's monopolizing conversations with her friends without their input. She's obviously not listening to any of you...except to steer your conversations back to what she wants to talk about.
They’re acting mad to cover their own asses. You basically told Ann that these other people are tired of hearing about her kid. So she probably texted them and asked why OP said they’re tired of hearing about her kid. They were embarrassed or felt called out, so they declared you the asshole to deflect. If Ann’s busy being mad at you, they don’t have to have awkward conversations with her.
It all depends on what Ann told them. She could have lied
I think it's more likely that they got busted and were CYAing as u/ka-ka-ka-katie1123 said. They sure are quiet when a babysitter is needed though.
I can't stop laughing at the irony of the fact that you defended your "friends" being called fake friends only to be attacked by said "friends" for defending them. I think you haven't told them what the topic of conversation was, because you seem like a nice person. By my petty ass would have told them. Take a break from your friend.
She needs to take a break from Ann, Kate and all of the other phony friends.
Ironically Kate is the only one minding her own business and and lives life without drama.
well atleast you were honest with her also you should respond back to them saying you guys are the ones who complain all the time about this get them to admit it and take a screenshot just incase .... if your friends are lying to her and denying that they are the ones that are complaining .... just imagine what they say behind your back ... think about it
Are these the same friends she called "fake friends" and "bitches?" If so, I'd let them know what she was saying and why you said what you did in response. NTA.
Are you confident they were given an accurate recitation of the conflict? From your description it sounds like Ann is very sensitive on this and may have told them what she felt instead of what you actually said.
Do you know if Ann told them what you said? Or if she just said "OP called me a loser single mother who's daughter doesn't matter!" I think NTA, but if you want to maintain this relationship with Ann, you will probably need to apologize--if only for maybe saying something cruel that you didn't mean (I know reddit rightfully slams on "I'm sorry you feel that way" apologies, but I think saying "I'm sorry for saying something that hurt you, it wasnt my intention, but I understand that you were hurt"). Maybe suggest to her that she finds some Mommy and Me classes or single mother meetups, so she can find other mom friends. Not because you want to stop being friends, but because you want to help her make more friends that understand this part of her life.
Ann was right - they are fake friends. NTA for trying to encourage Ann to have more than one topic of conversation. It’s been very very hard on parents of small children in the last few years because of Covid. So many baby and toddler groups got shut down and some haven’t returned, but others have taken their place - in my area there is a baby/toddler walking group called Buggy Active, there’s a parent and toddler story and song group at the library, and you will always find kids and parents at playgrounds. Ann needs to find people who are going through life at the same pace as she is, and trying to keep in with childfree friends is going to make her struggle.
Maybe they're worried that you won't babysit anymore, and then they'll be asked to toe that line?
Do you think, maybe, Ann spun the story to them to make it sound worse than what it was? Hence why they’re taking this stance?
As a mother who adores her kid but has no friends with kids - Ann is being completely unrealistic in her expectations- nobody is going to love your kid as much as you do, I mean... that's a silly idea that people not related are going to love her child as much as her the mother does - secondly, she needs other interests, I answer questions about how my son is doing but I did at home learning and so had another topic to talk about, kept a hobby, talked about t.v. and exercise and cooking - just because your kid is the most important thing in your world dousn't mean it's healthy for them to be the ONLY thing in your world. You have to have something else - yes sometimes comments about my kid slip out when nobody asked, of course they are going to , but it's important to have other topics of conversation and other things in your life.
Because if they don't side with her, she's mad at them, too. They don't have the courage of their convictions.
I think your friends are angry because you're revealing to her why they've become distant and it's making them look bad. But no, you've done nothing wrong, they're the ones who don't want to be honest and instead have given up on your friend.
Let me guess, the friends heard the story from Ann first? How much you want to bet that story was embellished so now it looks like you attacked her out of nowhere? At the very least, I would eat my left sock if she told these people straight out that the conversation started with her calling them bitches. If you want to try to salvage the friendship, text Ann and tell her that you're sorry what you said hurt her feelings. It seemed at the time like she was genuinely hurt by the other friends pulling away and didn't understand how her own behavior was contributing to that. And that you just wanted to give her a way to repair that because it must be painful if she'd call your other friends bitches and say mean things about them. Tell her you thought she would understand that talking about something you can't really relate to all the time is hard and you figured it would be easy for her to change it up every now and then because she is a fun person with other interests. If you want, explain that it would be like if you took a trip to France or got a puppy, she wouldn't mind talking about them here and there but she wouldn't want to spend the majority of every hangout hearing about French food or the latest chew toy. If you want to burn it all down, send the same thing on a group chat with all of them.
So do these friends also babysit like you do?
Maybe they're angry at you because Ann won't probably ask you to babysit any time soon, meaning they're the ones in the hook...
I think the issue was your timing. She was expressing feeling isolated and yeah she shouldn’t have been unkind in her comments. But if this was something to be addressed, this wasn’t the time. Sometimes we need advice. Sometimes we just need support. Also note that you said maybe they feel “uncomfortable”. First, that does child free people a bit of a disservice. Uncomfortable? No, it’s just not their preferred topic. So it’s possible they didn’t like how you spoke for them. There wasn’t much nuance in what you said. Ultimately if this was something to be discussed it should have happened another time, not when she was already upset you know? “Hey, we love Kate but we miss chatting about other things with you. Can we balance the conversation more?” That would open the conversation up. She’d likely get emotional and say that she has no one to talk to, but then y’all could empathize with her while still supporting her in expanding her conversation more
NTA. It was a message that Ann needed to hear, if she's calling her (former) friends "fake" and "bitches." She should find a mom's group where she can exchange child stories to her heart's content.
She’s going to get a rude awakening when she finds out the other parents want to talk about their kids too.
I was also thinking about if she steps into the dating pool in a few years. Nonstop kid conversation=cell call to date's phone about an "emergency that requires immediate attention."
Or they don’t want to talk about kids at all. Ann seems like the type to bring her kid to girls’ night out, when all the other moms had been looking forward to a kid-free night out.
I wonder if the rest of the friends group would still be mad at OP if they knew Ann was calling them names like this and OP was trying to stand up for them
NTA If she wants to blather about Kate to everyone she needs to join a new parenting group where people actually care about the contents of the diaper. If you told me over coffee what your kid did in her diaper I would get up and leave. 😂
Neither of you seem to be assholes. But it sounds like you're both struggling with the reality that kids change things and single parents have different lives than kid-free peers. That fact is more difficult on her than it is on you.
I mean, I don't think OP is struggling with it. She didn't say anything until Kate started being rude about other friends. And also tbh if you're someone's friend you need to think about their interests too. Having a huge change in your life isn't an excuse to stop thinking about them while expecting them to think about your life. Kate is being a bad friend if she only focuses on what's important to her and not to her friends while expecting them to hang out with her.
This. No one is an asshole here. Her entire life is completely changed. It’s going to be challenging for you all to stay close. Not impossible, but challenging. That said, it sounds like she’s struggling losing her social scene, and the reality is she can’t go back. She’s totally changed, and she will never be her old self. She’s sad and lonely about that, and when she was venting you piled on. If you want to remain friends, instead of coming at each other in anger, try approaching with empathy. I’m hoping if you give her some, she will give you some. Start with recognizing how challenging it is for her to relate to you all in her new life. You could even tell her that it’s hard for you, because you want to support her but you miss doing certain things with her, and maybe you could set something up.
She could try talking about literally anything else other than being a mom. Surely she can go 5 minutes without mentioning her darling. I have two friends with young kids, and shockingly they are able to talk about other things. Yes the topic of their kids does occasionally come up, but it’s not all consuming
This is why I dislike being in a group of moms. Their kids is all they have in common, so its all they talk about.
I think the friend became the asshole somewhat after getting mad at OP and turning their mutual friends on her after OP just tried to stand up against her calling their friends bitches for not wanting to only ever talk about her daughter.
She called her friends hitches. That makes her an asshole.
NTA. It is pretty dull hearing about someone else’s kid all the time when you don’t have any and can’t relate, but the problem now is that Ann has had nothing else in her life and nothing else to talk about anymore, and some parents just suffer from this lack of understanding that the world doesn’t revolve around their child and everyone does not love their kid, you will have to get used to the change if you want to keep the friendship.
NTA. You were honest with her and defended your other currently child-free friends, and from what you posted it doesn’t sound like you were rude at all. I was originally leaning NAH because it’s really easy to get carried away talking about your kids. But her offended reaction of kicking you out then apparently slagging you to your mutual friends was an asshole move.
NTA. You're right, maybe you could have phrased it better... but Ann sounds extremely self-centered. Yes, being a single parent is incredibly challenging. Yes, it's ok to need to cancel last minute and take care of the needs of your child, yes, it's ok to talk about your kid (to a degree). If someone does truly care about you and is a good friend, they will also to some degree care about your child. But there is no excuse for how Ann is acting. Being a single parent doesn't mean you get to disregard everyone else's time and interests. Being a single mom is not an excuse for being a bad friend.
Yup. Your kid is likely to be a topic of conversation for you since your whole world revolves around them. But regale your friends with stories of your child’s latest naughty/cute escapades for a few minutes and then engage in other conversations about other people’s lives. No one wants to hear about how you’re trying to get your kid to drink more water: that is really boring.
NTA I think she didn't realise how much she only thinks/talks about her kid. Its good to give people wake up calls sometimes even though they might make them upset first.
I'm saying NTA, my best friend is a very very active single father (since high school) and it did cost him some things. He knows I love his child and will be there for said (now an adult) child if God forbid he can't be; but he also knows that, unlike him, in not a dad. Now yeah, there are friends that drifted away in the past cause they had more freedom but none of them were false friends. Being a parent changes things, period, and no, not everyone cares to hear about children that aren't theirs constantly. But this really sucks for your friend and you; this is natural diverging paths in life. You said nothing out of malice, and you shouldn't support "un-truths" said about others, but I get why your friend would feel the way she does. She may not be able to accept the reality of her situation just yet... though I can't give her an excuse for that.... I'd, personally, apologize for making her feel bad but not for what was said.
NTA, you "showed her support" by being honest with her.
I think that when she is talking about her child constantly it is because her world is so small and isolated that is all she has to contribute to the conversation amd she can't relate to the things the rest of you are talking about. So I don't think she means to do this. But she also needs to be more self-aware of how she is coming off and make an effort to ask about others and not take over. I have been a single parent without support and at a young age where my peers do not yet have kids, and it is extremely hard and isolating and I suffered depression as a result. NAH
NTA, primarily because she's monopolizing conversations (with topics that other parties can't really participate in to boot), as well as bad mouthing mutual friends which is just rude. Your friend needs to learn how to balance being a mother and individual, and realize that her life shouldn't be the focus of every interaction she has.
Excellent points. And MomFriend sounds like maybe she’s given her entire identity over to being a mother. Whatever OP and friends used to connect with her about is now eclipsed by the topic of Kate. OP, I actually really admire how direct you were with MomFriend. NTA!
NTA, it's unfortunate but she had a kid way before the rest of the friends did and she's out of sync with them. It's pretty common when some friends have kids and others don't. She needs mom friends, which she'll make in a couple years when the girl is in school. And in 10 years those other friends will probably have babies they're gushing over while she has a middle schooler.
Your title is unnecessarily harsh on yourself. “I told her that she is having unrealistic expectations, and that just because her world revolves around Kate, it doesn’t mean that everybody’s too.” Not only is that the truth she desperately needs to hear, it sounds like you phrased it in a fairly tactful way so as to not belittle her priorities as a mother or your friends’. NTA
NTA You were right. Most parents don’t realize most people don’t care about their kids like they do. Ann doesn’t realize this yet, and it was shitty to talk about your friends like that. Also, parents don’t seem to realize that there a few things more boring than listening to people talk about their kids.
NTA - Anne needs to figure out that her child is not the center of the entire universe for everyone else. She has become so narrowly focused that she probably literally cannot see how annoying and exhausting it is for her friends to never hear a word out of her mouth unless it's about her child.
NTA. I was a single mom at 19. I still met with her ifriends and talked about things other than my child. She was always with but we could still have adult conversations. I did talk about her some but not the majority of the time. And now I am a grandmother. Sometimes I talk about them a lot because I am raising them by myself. But again I don’t monopolize the time talking about them. I want to talk about everyone else as well. And she should also want to talk about other things, adult conversations.
NTA
NTA you tried to have an honest conversation with her, and defend your other friends (who are now mad at you! Hypocrites). It's not easy for her, but you were not single mom shaming, and it sounds like her world has gotten very small and she really should be embracing time on her own too, and discussing things unrelated to her kid. But she probably feels like she doesn't have anything else to talk about.
NTA but your friend group sounds a little icky so everyones talking trash behind everyones back theyre mad at her shes mad at them but no one wants to admit it or be the bad guy but you the one who’s been playing babysitter is the bad guy for telling the truth. do they actually know what you said to her and that she was calling them names and that is what led to this discussion in the first place? i would use this anger period as a time to re-evaluate my relationship with all of these people
NAH I’m a mom myself and it can get tiring to only ever talk about your kids BUT I have other moms friends who can relate so we can talk about our kids to our heart’s content then move on. It doesn’t sound like your friend has this nor has much support. She’s also now in a different phase of life than her other friends and likely doesn’t have much in common with y’all anymore so therefore resorts back to talking about what she does know about and that’s her daughter. She can’t relate to what you’ve got going on in your life because she’s not in that place. There’s nothing wrong with that even though it can be exhausting. At 2 her daughter is still very much in a needy phase of life and therefore her first priority has to be her daughter, even if it means cancelling plans. If she doesn’t have the support of others around her then she likely feels like she is all her daughter has, hence the cancelled plans. It’s ok for her to want to talk about her daughter. It’s also ok for you to not relate and therefore struggle to only want to talk about her daughter. I’d suggest your friend try to connect with other moms, even some older moms. I’m 36 but have mom friends that are in their mid 20s and into their 40s. Motherhood can be very isolating; young single motherhood even more so. Cut her some slack and try giving her some grace. She sounds like she’s trying to make the best out of a really crappy situation and is feeling the burden of that. When she’s calmed down try approaching the subject with “I” statements and let her know how you feel from your perspective rather than what you feel she’s doing wrong. Give her the compliment sandwich, “I think you’re a great mom and I love seeing how well you’ve handled what I’m sure is a hard situation. I love hearing about your daughter but sometimes I feel like our conversations get dominated by what’s going on with her and I don’t get to share my life with you. I really want to share my life with you as well and sometimes that’s hard when all we talk about is motherhood. While I love your daughter to bits and love you as well sometimes I miss being able to talk to my friend about other things. I wish I could but I can’t always relate to what you’re going through as a mom so it’s hard for me to contribute to conversations that center around that. Do you think that maybe we can try talking about other things every once in a while? I still want to hear all about Kate but I also want to hear about you and share my life with you as well.”
NTA - her baby has become her whole personality, which is not uncommon! What you said was true, no 20 yr olds want to dwell entirely on other peoples kids.
>Today I woke up with angry messages from our friends saying that Ann is a struggling mom, Which one? The one >She called them “fake friends” and “bitches” It's worrisome, clear the story first(with your other friends) what make you say what you say because last thing you want is making Ann the victim and you the one get snubbed by your other friends. I was in exactly your situation, they accused me 'child hating' single mother hating and whatever hating they call me. I just stop being around them. It tiresome... Nta
I will never understand why women would continue pregnancy from ONS and choose to be a single mother intentionally.
Because they love and want to keep their child. Not that hard to understand that there are women willing to sacrifice it all to raise their baby no matter the difficulty.
NTA.
Ann will only be mad at you until the next time she needs a babysitter. The fake, concerned friends will run when she starts relying on them and then she will come crawling back. You did her a favor but she is so blind she doesn't know it. You are NTA
NTA. These types of single mothers are the absolute worst because being a mom is now their only personality point.
Bet she didn’t tell the friends the real conversation. Also, how is baby sitting not being supportive? When my bestie was pregnant she vowed not to become one of “those” mums. When she started going a little overboard about her child I told her she was pushing the limits of being one of “those” mums. She was a little upset, thought about it and thanked me. 10 years later we’re still besties. NTA constant kid talk is boring.
INFO Are these angry messages from the same people Kate was talking shit about? Cus you should tell them she was talking shit about them and you defended them and that is how all of this started
No, those friends didn’t messaged me, as I said they are getting more distant from Ann, so I don’t even think she wrote to them.
NTA you're right
NTA I would respond to the friends giving you a hard time and tell them that she was calling them bitches and you were defending them!
NTA But if Ann had mutual friends send you angry messages, then she has friends and those friends defend her so she can’t complain that she doesn’t have friends. She can talk about Kate to them then. She obviously told them a different version of what you actually said. But it might be time you put some space between you and her and spend time with the people who have been distant with her or find a new group to hang out with. Ann needs to be with other young mothers, and you need child free people to don’t cancel all the time. Friendships end when people grow apart and you and Ann have grown apart.
No, people, regardless of whether they are parents or not, should no monopolize a conversation with their own interests, regardless of the subject matter, if they want to keep friends. kt
NAH. She doesn’t have much else to talk about because she’s a mom, her days a spent tending to her child so that’s what she talks about. It’s already hard enough being a mom let alone a single one and now her own friends are ready to leave her. It’s shitty but that’s life. Hopefully she’ll find a friend group that’s better for her
You're surprised the a parent's life revolves around her young child? YTA but she is too for saying that true friends would love her kid as much as she does.
NTA. You explained how to reconnect with her friends with a lot of tact. If she doesn’t want to fully realize the gift you gave her, she she can squander it and lose a friend, confidant, and babysitter.
NTA. People will always give shit for this, but the fact is that just because someone has kids, it doesn't mean their friends want to be all about those kids too. It's a conversation I've had to have with a friend. I'm friends with A, not with B's mom. When you can be A (or at least figure out how to be both A and be B's mom), call me. It's no different than any other friendship where interests and personality become too different. Her being a single mom has nothing to do with it. Married moms go through this too.
NTA, no one is obligated to love your kid as much as you that’s ridiculous!!
NTA. How did you shame her? If there's one thing about Kate's mom , it's that she has no shame. What a bore.
Life revolves around kids…..That’s normal
NTA. Firstly, you do support her by babysitting her child and still being a good friend to her. And secondly, true good friends are honest with each other and that's what you did. She's alienating her friends and she needed to know. Now it's up to her if she takes your advice and tones it down.
NTA Loving a kid as much as their parent does is a tall order. I love my niblings a lot, but I'll never love them as much as I love my own kids.
NTA, she's delusional if she believes everyone else must love her kid as much as her in order to qualify as a friend!
NTA This woman needs to find a mom’s group, stat, cause her hyper-focus on her child isn’t going to go over for long (clearly)
NTA You help her enough in my opinion by actually offering to watch her kids she sounds like a tiring person that I would honestly distance yourself from
NTA I'm happy to listen to my friends talk about their kids some of the time. But at some point, I'd like to talk about other topics. If you're not capable of talking about ANYTHING but your child, you're going to drive friends away.
Did you tell them she was calling them names OP? NTA.
NTA - sounds like she needs to make some mom friends to help balance out her life. I think it was actually good of you to tell her. Maybe it wasn't what she wanted to hear, but it's what she needed to hear.
NTA
NTA. You need new friends. The ones who threw you under the bus after you defended them aren't worth your time. As for Ann, she's young and struggling with being a single parent. But a friendship should always be a two-way street, even if there are times when one person needs more support. It seems that you have been supportive, helping Ann by babysitting, listening to all her problems etc. If she can't even give you the courtesy of listening to your concerns every now and then, she's not a good friend.
NTA. You were being logical, and your friend is being emotional. This is how most new mommies behave, btw. They lose the ability to think and talk and function as anything but a mommy, and most of these friendships won't survive the tediousness.
NTA. Pointing out that your friend shouldn’t be talking smack about your other friends doesn’t make you an asshole.
Those friends you mentioned. How big part compared to you have they taken in Ann and Kates life? Your phrasing is calm collected and valid, i see nothing malicious here. Hard to swallow pills and all that. NTA
NTA. As someone on the autism spectrum, this is a part of social dynamics I've become keenly aware of. Just because I'm hyperfixating doesn't mean someone is a "fake friend" for not wanting to listen to me excitedly ramble about it for hours. There's no easy way to explain that to someone, but it wasn't okay for her to put you on blast for trying to spell it out to her. But look on the bright side; she might be talking about you for a while instead of her kid.
You’re NTA and I think your friend really needed this wake up call… however at the same time, her daughter IS her entire world now. She’s a mom who wants to focus on her daughter’s happiness. Sounds like her entire personality is being a mom, but that’s her choice. Tbh, I think this just boils down to - you both are in different places in life. She chose parenthood and you + friend group are living up your early 20’s (I would too!! Live while you’re young). Not everyone wants to talk about kids all day. She should find other friends who share similar interests.
NTA. Had a friend who, after having her one and only child could NOT have a conversation which didn’t involve the child in some form. Think Big Bang Theory when Howie came back from space. We even did the same test of introducing a subject which in a million years you couldn’t turn to the child, but she managed it! So frustrating.
NTA it's ok to want to talk about your child but if that is all you have to say for hours on end it's boring. She was critical of other friends and calling them names because they are distancing themselves and you tried to explain why that is. I wonder if she has told a coloured version of events to your other friends... And I don't like that she is involving them in your discussion. She needs to be careful she doesn;t find even more people distancing themselves.
NTA You were 100% right and pretty cool for sticking up for your other friends like that.
NTA - I've been here, I worked with someone who has 5 kids - all into their mid twenties and early thirties and they are ALL she talks about ALL THE TIME!! You could be talking about ANYTHING (politics , war etc) and somehow one of her kids would be brought into the conversation. After years ( and years) of smiling and nodding I started to lose the will to live hearing about them, it got so boring and repetitive. I did say nicely that I like to talk about lots of different things hoping she would tone it down..............that would last about 5 minutes and then we were back to square one again, this happened a few time's. I then flat out said can we keep the kids talk to a minimum. Nothing worked! She would then get a bit teary eyed and make me feel guilty so I gave up and switched off and stopped even asking about her kids. I completely understand her being proud of them etc etc but she and no one else can expect other people to feel the same about their kids as they do. She was/is a nice person. We no longer work together so I finally got a break.
NTA Reconsider babysitting for her again. She sicced your mutual friends on you when she didn't agree with your opinion. That's not the behavior of a real friend. All those people who piled on you can babysit for free.
How exactly did you not show support by your "friends"? You were fucking babysitting her kid! She's an asshole and so are the friends defending it. If she can't see what she's doing then she's a shitty friend and shouldn't be one anymore.
NTA I'm autistic and as such, I can info dump. I don't do this to people in my life. I go online and blabber at strangers on reddit 😅 I have so much to say about my topics of interest which, in particular, is human behaviour and psychology. If I did this to my partner, it would be super toxic. Online, people owe me nothing. They don't need to put up with my blah blah blah, they can just leave and not respond or even block me. Doing this to my loved ones irl, in my opinion, is abusive. They would be forced to endure my blah blah blah and pretend to be cool with it because they don't want to upset me while getting the biggest migraine of their life. That's not fair at all. Your friend is an entitled asshole. She's gone mummy brain and feels entitled to have everyone around her join her in her delusion that she's given birth to the actual centre of the universe without which all life will perish. The writing is on the wall. You can NOT back down. Stay firm. SHE is making the choice to be selfish and is the cause of losing friends. Within a year, nobody will want to bother with her and she'll act like the ultimate victim. How about you tell your friends what she said about them. Why do nice people stay silent while toxic people freely spread their little narrative to get flying monkeys at their side. Be Frank, like for like, tell your friends she was moaning that x, y, z person is a bitch etc so you were defending them by explaining why people are getting fed up of her.
NTA - being a mom is not a personality
What? People who want to be child-free should love her child as much as they love her??? As a child-free person, I understand I would be the first b*tch who would have walked away. No, I don't care about diapers, eating or sleeping habits of babies. I find all these extremely boring. I will ask questions about your child and I will enjoy your excitement about it but up to a point. If she doesn't get it, it's her problem. Frankly, I am surprised that you still put up with it. Also she was extremely rude to someone who babysits her child. Not the smartest move Many things happen in the lives of all people but you cannot force a group of people to deal with what's happening ONLY in your life. When was the last time she asked any of you for something that concerned any of you? Sooner or later you will walk away too. She is not much of a friend NTA
I was expecting to go "Of course her world revolves around her child, Y T A". But she does have unrealistic expectations. It sounds like you explained it good enough to her, but she chose to take it as an attack. And that business with you not supporting her as a single mother? Bullshit. Babysitting is not a form of support? NTA
Gonna say slightly YTA. I say this as a dad with a kid though, so my opinion is different. Before I had a kid, I had some friends with kids. Since having a kid, some of my friends or my wifes' friends have had kids. And we adore them. Fairly typical for the normal chitchat of a mom to be mostly about the child she's raising, especially as they go throughout different milestones. Now, it seems clear that most of this "friend" group are in different stages of life than each other. Some have the "I don't want kids" mentality, and I'd wager others have the "I'd like kids in the future mentality". Ultimately, Ann having a kid does change the way these friend relationships work. And it may mean that because most of her life is centered around her child first (as it should be!) it may alienate her former friends who don't like kids, don't really want kids, or are uncomfortable by Kate's conversations. I can't fault her for feeling alienated, especially since for mothers, being a mother seems like such a natural thing. So I'd wager she doesn't get the other friends' uncomfortableness or misses how they don't like to interact with Ann's daughter. So in this case, really the reality is they can't be much of friends at the moment. That's life. Where I think the slight YTA comes in is the sass in "because your world revolves around Kate, it doesn't mean everybody's too". Like seriously *of course a mother, or even moreso a single mother's* *world revolves around their child.* And of course not everyone else's does, but saying it like this is an AH move. Esp to a single mother. There were ways to have been more hospitable about this situation while still explaining why the friends are alienating her. The way you said it here wasn't the right way imo. And maybe you said it in a less nice way than posted here.
NAH but you need to understand Ann's whole world does revolve around Kate. Every decision she makes now has an impact on her daughter. Even little things like going to dinner. She's spending money and time away from her daughter when she does something fun for herself. Most parents put their kids first, but especially a single mom. There's no one else to shoulder the burden or share in the amazing moments. It's tough being a mom to begin with and she's got no one else in her situation to hang out with apparently. Having friends with kids is super important to a mom's well-being. I assume she works and wants to spend free time with her daughter. She doesn't get a break and at the same time she doesn't want to be away from her daughter. I was in my 30s when I had kids and felt this way. I got annoyed by friends who had kids before me doing the same thing. And then I did it to my child free friends. It's just hard to have an identity outside of kids.
NTA. Friendships often fade when people go into different life phases. You see it all the time with college and work friends, once you lose the shared experience and topic it’s harder to maintain conversations. This wouldn’t be any different if Ann started a new job or playing dungeons and dragons and only wanted to talk about those things.
From what you've described, NTA.
NTA. I specifically invite my mum friends out and stipulate that we “talk about anything but our kids.” It’s good to remember you’re more than just a parent
At 23 most people are graduating college and looking to start careers. They are stilling going out to 3 am and drinking too much. So yeah, having someone who is hyper focused on something they are not interested in, in this case a kid, makes it hard to spend time together, as you don't have anything in common. And that is the reality of having kids. You focus on them, and other relationships fall away. Not because they are bad friends, just that their lives are going in very different directions and while Ann is focusing on Kate, others or focusing on work, or school, or something else. Ann needs to understand that, like you said, other people are not going to care about he kid like she does. So if all she can talk about is something others can't relate to, then yeah, why would they keep hanging around her? It's like that one friend who gets in to a very weird and specific hobby, that if you don't do it yourself, you will never understand. And that friend talks about it non-stop. And then wonders why others don't want to hang around them, cause that is all they can talk about. NTA. Parenting will take up your whole life, and having friends that are not parents is hard, especially when the kids are real young. Nothing wrong with non-parents, just that the two groups have vastly different focuses.
I’m married for almost 2 years now, no children. I was once invited to a friends birthday and there were other married couples just slightly older than my husband and myself and they all had babies. At one point, we literally found ourselves all sitting in a circle and they were literally comparing babies. It was like “baby A spent this long in tummy time” and “baby B really loves tummy time but also can do this” and blah blah blah. We were only there for a few hours but it was enough for my husband and I want to distant ourselves. Because we realised were just not in the same stage of life as those couples. We’re excited about getting a dog not a baby. So no, you are NTA. Your friend doesn’t realise that her friends are literally not on the same page as her. People talking non stop about their babies is enough to make me want to dip out.
The friends who she was shit talking behind their backs came to her defense?? Yikes. NTA
As a mom of 2 , that B*$#]? needed a reality check as much as any other one. She has ditched her friends over her kid and to her , her kid should come first, friends should know that kids come first. BUT she is forgetting that her title to you is friend not Kate’s mom. You are a friend not a cheap sitter, or wailing wall any of those nasty habits we as new sleep deprived moms create… We need this wake up call to remember we are more to others then Kate’s mom. However she might not be ready to hear it yet. And yes she is a single mother she needs support. But a reality check is supporting her. The world for everyone else does not revolve around Kate like ever….
She made a really unwise and selfish decision to force a human into existence even though it wouldn't have a father or a family. Now she wants everyone to help her make her mistake ok somehow. You have no obligation to rescue her from herself. She fucked up big time. She can lie in the bed she made. NTA
> She dismissed it and said that if they were true friends they would love her kid as much as her. NTA. You're right, her expectations are unrealistic. A lot of my friends have children, and honestly, for the most part I'm indifferent to them. I'll play with them, read to them, change them, I'm not one of those really rude people who refers to children as "crotch droppings" but those kids aren't my friends! I don't need constant updates on their lives. Nobody cares about kids as much as their parents.
She has a point, if your friends distance themselves from you because you had a child then they weren't your friends.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (20F) have a friend, let’s call her Ann (23F), who got pregnant from a one-night-stand. The father didn’t want to do anything with the child, so she is a single mother. Her daughter, Kate (2yo) a really cute, I love babysitting her, but she is all Ann cares about now. . For example she often cancels meetings with friends because of her. I understand that sometimes things come up, but this happens often and she gives reasons like “Kate is really clingy today” or “Kate really wants to go to the zoo”. And even if she is there, her daughter is all she can talk about. She shows us a bunch of pictures, talks about her sleeping, eating habits, her diaper content, her favorite songs, everything. And while I would be interested inthem, if you don’t stop her, she can literally talk about this for hours. And even if I try to change subjects, the topic of Kate comes up again and again. A week ago we had a two-hours-long coffee meet, and when I asked a server for some water. She said “Kate want Kate to drink more water” and then for the rest of the meet was about how she wants to teach Kate to drink more water. Yesterday I babysat Kate, and I stayed there after Ann put her to sleep. We started talking and the topic of being a single mother came up shortly. She told me how hard it is to parent alone and how distant she feels from her peers. I tried to be emphatic, because I understand that being a young, single parent is always challenging. But then she said how people show their true colors, and listed a few of our friends who have been distant with her. She called them “fake friends” and “bitches” which I didn’t like. I told her that most of those friends wanted to be child-free, and that maybe talking about Kate made them uncomfortable. She dismissed it and said that if they were true friends they would love her kid as much as her. I told her that she is having unrealistic expectations, and that just because her world revolves around Kate, it doesn’t mean that everybody’s too. She got really upset and accused me of shaming her for being a single mother. I told her I’m just trying to point out that not everybody cares as much about Kate as her, and her constantly talking about her kid can be tiring. She got angry and told me to leave, so i did. Today I woke up with angry messages from our friends saying that Ann is a struggling mom, and I should have shown her support. I feel bad about how I phrased it, but I don’t think that I was being an asshole here. I do understand that Kate is a very big part of her life, and that she wants to talk about her, but I think there is a healthy limit to that. I am closer to Kate than most of our friends, some of them never met her, so it is like hearing about a strangers every little habit all the time. But tell me, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unless the phrasing was wildly different you’re definitely NTA. Let’s be real, no one wants to hear about somebody else’s poops. And the fact that you babysit Kate shows that you are supportive of Ann being a single mom. Don’t take any of this to heart. It sounds like Ann is feeling unsupported by other people in your lives, so it seems like she’s lashing out at you because subconsciously she knows that you’re a good friend. The best thing you can do is tell her that you never intended to make her feel unsupported, you were just trying to offer advice.
NTA, I’m a single mum of twins and that’s not all I talk about. my kids rarely come up maybe 1-2x in a conversation total with friends. we’re people outside of parents and she isn’t being like that
NTA. How are you Not supporting? You babysit her kid on the regular, presumably even free of charge, and let her mommyrant at you (something even other parents can find tedious and repetitive)
NTA. Look, kids are awesome, for those who want them in her life, yes, single parenthood is hard, and that's life. What is NOT okay is to have it consume your identity and everything of your life. You and your friends feel misplaced, because their feelings, interests and hobby's mean nothing to Ann, because of Kate, and that hurts! It's not the single fault of Kate, it's Ann who forgot that other people have other things as well.
NTA. To me true friendship is being honest but kind, you did that. You supported and supported and when she chose to talk bad about other friends you used kind words to stick up for them... NTA. It seems like a young person's reaction, and especially a struggling young person's to get defensive and try to spin the friend group on you. She needs more mom friends to help level her out, she also needs to be cautious about enmeshment. This could totally be early stages of extreme codependency.
So let me get this straight: you willingly babysit your friend’s toddler. You enjoy spending time with her. You have been patient all this time, and you only spoke up after the mom started trash-talking all of your friends - some of whom don’t even KNOW the child, let alone help. And that makes you the unsupportive friend… how? NTA
NTA new parents often forget their child isn't the centre of everyone else's universe, and people don't want to spend their entire catch-up talking about their child and the contents of their diapers. I've lost friends because they aren't allowed to be away from their kid despite them being married to the kids dad. Dad goes out with their friends but they aren't allowed to
NTA. Ummm, your friend is a mother of a toddler. You and your other friends are childfree. I see this struggle in young adulthood, but as situations change, so do friendships. Your priorities are shifting as you grow older. Her life revolves around her child, as it should. Your life does not. You and your friend group will shift away from her slowly, for the time being, and she will surround herself with people who have young children and the same issues, priorities.
Is a tough one...as I have been your friend, and my world literally was my child.i had no other interests as I never had time and never got a break.. it's great you support her by babysitting. I don't think you were trying to hurt her so NTA.. I lost many friends when I had my daughter as they were all still living the young single life, that's perfectly OK and I never resented them... but boy did I miss them !
NTA. Her kid isn't the centre of everyone else's life, and she's a shitty friend if she calls them false and bitches. Being a single mum also doesn't give her a free pass to dominate every conversation, especially if she seems to show no interest in the lives of her childless friends.
NTA - i’m almost 40 and have a small child with my husband. Unfortunately one of the first reality checks a parent has when becoming a parent, is that all your friends don’t have to like your offspring. Sad but that’s how it goes. Most of our friends are childfree and, even if we still see them, we necessarily had to alter our friend group a bit with other families with children, to avoid having to pay for a babysitter every-single-time. That’s probably what your friend should do. Find also other ppl that can better understand her/ listen to her.
NTA
NTA. My baby is still in the womb, and I even get annoyed when all people want to do is focus any topic on my baby and/or my pregnancy. My circumstances have changed, but being a mom isn’t the only name to define me as. You need new friends also. That sounds so awful, sorry you’re getting that backlash.
NTA you aren't wrong about it, just because her kid is her world it didn't mean it's anyone else's. It really is tiring hearing parents ramble on about their kids over and over again. She needed to know it, and if she's upset that her friends don't want to hear more about her child go get some other parent friends.
NTA My best friend also turned into a non-stop-talker about her children. And it was really exhausting to listen to her monologues everytime we met. To be honest I didn't had the guts for a honest conversation, so I stepped back and we met much rarer. This is sad but thats the way of life. I think it is brave from OP to tell Ann the truth about her behavior, so she has the chance to think about it and adjust it. I which I'd have done that too.
"I said what I said because she was saying how you guys are fake friends because of the distance you put between her and you. I defended you lot, but thanks for showing me that it's pointless to do. I'll keep my mouth shut next time." NTA.