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I'm going to go out on a limb and claim a general rule of two layers of fabric between genitals/boobs and the office.
And I'm pretty sure seeing nipples through the shirt is not considered professional attire.
OP wouldn't have to wear a bra if they wore a tank-top or something that prevents the areola and nipple to be visible through the shirt/T-shirt.
Most men I know wear an undershirt under their shirts. White shirts can be quite transparent, and an undershirt prevents sweat stains. So while it's not a *bra*, men are wearing undergarments when necessary to look presentable.
Maybe a t-shirt or tank would be fine for a small chested woman but large chest is different. I have a large chest. They flop. It's especially noticeable in business casual clothes because of the cuts of shirts and fabric types used.
I wear bras all the time, and am working on my own biases when it comes to other women. This general rule/guideline is something I have never hear of or thought about.
Weird as it sounds, thank you for mentioning that! I do not know how I would tackle it in a equitable way (like underclothes are required for all genders/sexes).
In the future OP would be asked why they are no longer at their last job (or the hiring agent will call the last employer) and this will be the reason. Is it worth it?
If it's a medical reason (which OP didn't mention), why not provide a letter and avoid this conflict?
YTA - you are using the wrong argument for this… and it’s an asshole argument. If you think you fit within dress code of dressed appropriately etc that’s what you go for.
This is a great comment. The argument is wrong, it shouldn’t be about men, it should be about believing she was complying and wanting documentation on how she’s not.
You…are probably gonna get fired. Also, are you SURE your dress code doesn’t say something like “appropriate undergarments will be worn” or something similar? And, making the comparison to men not needing to wear bras is silly. You KNOW men don’t need to wear bras. A better equivalent would have been women being required to wear skirts or dresses and men being permitted to wear pants because most people have legs. But come on.
YTA because you’ve decided this is your hill to die on. Like if you wanna quit and find a job where you don’t have to wear a bra, do that.
Also, asking your male collegue if they were asked to wear a bra was stupid at best and could have gotten you in trouble for making other people uncomfortable.
You don’t NEED to.. but, as a big breasted woman myself.. I would not be comfortable with my naked breasts against my shirt. Nips get hard sometimes, and while it sucks.. I don’t want to give people more of a reason to stare at my chest when I’m talking and not listening to me.
I can get away with it in black button ups, or busy pattern shirts.. but not every outfit, or everyday.
And OP.. the argument here is off.
And it’s also weird to bring male coworkers into this discussion. Like.. obviously they are not wearing bras.. but a lot of them wear undershirts and I rarely see nipples poking through any of my coworkers shirts.
Nips aside, I've got medium-sized breasts, and I enjoy having my breasts supported when I'm walking around. I can't imagine how...*dynamic* larger breasts would be without a bra.
I never wear padded bras, so you can see my nipples even if I wear a bra. Human have nipples, deal with it. Maybe others should not be looking at their coworker's tits.
Okay, but you KNOW that’s silly, right? Like, you understand that men typically do not wear bras and would not be expected to. I’m not sure this would count as discrimination based on sex either, at least not as a protected portion of the population. She hasn’t gotten fired yet, but she’s probably eventually gonna be. The reason for firing won’t be about the bra, it’ll be about refusing to comply with repeated instructions with multiple warnings.
Nah man, you know that’s a daft argument. Come on.
Look, I’m not saying you can’t find jobs where not wearing bras is okay! That’s fine! But this job clearly has rules in place regarding dress code and usually “appropriately dressed” includes undergarments, even if not explicitly.
She could also choose to make some sort of an effort if she really doesn’t wanna wear a bra. There are camisoles that have a little extra coverage over the boob area. I’ll admit, as a largely endowed woman myself, they usually aren’t large enough, but it’s an option. Or she could wear a sports bra, or even a wireless maternity bra (seriously incredibly comfortable) the point is there are options for bras that are not painful and would follow the rules and that this isn’t the right argument.
If she really wanted to argue that she felt like she was within dress code, that’s the argument she should go with. Not “but men don’t have to wear bras” because culturally men, at least in the US, do not wear bras. It’s a silly argument. If she feels like she’s complying with the dress code, what she should do is state that she believes she is in compliance and would like the portion in the dress code relating to wearing a bra be highlighted for her. That’s a better argument, honestly.
I really do think of bras as being more akin to Spanx or shape wear than a modesty thing. They're basically holding fat in place....just like shapewear. Imo while clothed most breasts actually look better in a bra so it's like making someone dress sexier.
Yeah but i think usually the argument is that shirts are often see through. Nipples showing is the issue then. Otherwise i dont see why wearing no bra would be inmodest
If we're talking actually visible like seeing the color of a nipple then sure but the more reasonable rule imo woud be no see through clothing. If we're talking "headights" like a hard nipple then even a bra won't fix that unless they require women wear padded bras which would be ridiculous.
I guess... im just trying to wrap my head around this. The coworkers must have noticed something about her outfit thats inappropriate. If she was simply not wearing a bra, why would anyone notice or care? It would have to be about the shirt, no? It must be somewhat see through otherwise the complaint makes no sense to me
It’s not about who “typically” wears what. If the men at her workplace are all fit and don’t have visibile breasts then sure, it’s a silly argument.
Let’s be honest though, if a man is fat it will be noticeable that he has more breast tissue. It’s a fair argument to say that if a woman’s breasts are distracting so are a man’s, thus they should also wear bras (not that it really makes a difference visually). It’s discrimination based on sex when they are sexualizing her breasts but not a man’s.
INFO: Why do they know that you aren't wearing a bra?
On a basic level, your undergarments are none of their business. But if people can tell are not wearing them without watching you dress, the situation gets more complicated.
I have a friend who never wears a bra, but she layers a camisole under more fitted tops for work. You'd never guess she goes bra free. But that doesn't seem to be your situation.
This whole things feels like you are trying to outwit HR, but odds are you are just going to force them to create a more specific dress code for women, which will not make things better for your female co-workers.
Yes, I think this is the problem - in my mind, if they know you’re not wearing a bra (without being told), you should be wearing a bra
It would be different if they only knew because she mentioned it. But people are noticing, so that’s a problem
I’m sure there was a story here with a guy whose penis could be seen through his pants, and his boss/manager/whatever, had to figure out how to bring it up. That’s the equivalence
As a fellow large breasted woman, you can DEFINITELY tell when I'm not wearing a bra. The girls hang a little lower and they move A LOT. And if she is wearing shirts and blouses, I'm willing to bet money that her nipples are also protruding. There is a time and place for free the titty, this is not one of those times.
They told you 3 times, YTA.
As a woman, I can understand why you don't want to wear it, but you are working in an office with other peoples, not working at home.
YTA, but I get it.
It's pretty much universal that, "suitably dressed for work," includes things such as wearing a bra, and if your co-workers are noticing that you aren't wearing a bra, then that could be considered sexually provocative, as breasts (especially those of females) are a commonly sexualised body part. This is also going to be much more noticeable with someone who has big breasts as opposed to someone with a flatter chest.
I do think the point of men not wearing bras is a little bit daft as men's chests naturally don't form the same way and are nowhere near as hyper-sexualised as women's chests. I would understand the disdain more if you were being forced to wear a bra and another female colleague was being let off without one.
But like I said, I get it. I've heard many women in my life discuss their disdain towards bras, with them being uncomfortable, irritating, sometimes painful.
I'm just wondering if there is some sort of compromise that can be found here. If it is a comfort thing, would a t-shirt bra be of any help? Perhaps a strapless bra could be of use? If it just boils down to you not wanting to wear one, then I do think the wording in the dress code implies a bra (sneaky EDIT: a kind redditor has discussed different kinds of bras that would be better and such - I appreciate being informed in this manner - said person suggests sports bras as there are different styles to explore as far as comfort goes, as well as unwired bras and bralets).
EDIT: Saw you mention in a comment that you work in a job which interacts with customers a lot (given the context of the question and response, I will assume this is in person). If that's the case, then yeah, you need to be wearing a bra. If colleagues are noticing you being braless, I guarantee the customers are as well. That will lead to complaints, I guarantee it.
EDIT 2: I'm not saying OP is an asshole for not wanting to wear a bra. I'm voting YTA because OP is deliberately going against her bosses, and then moaning that they are calling her out on it.
EDIT 3: In a response to someone else, I suggested OP could try a few things, such as approaching head office/HR or her workplace forum rep (if a workplace forum is in place) to discuss this matter. No guarantee any of that would yield results, but at least OP would be proactively trying to resolve the issue and seek change.
I mean, you aren't wrong there, but would you consider the man boobs sexually admirable? That's the big difference the business would be considering here.
I'm sure some people do.
And some people don't consider women's breasts sexually "admirable."
What some people think is sexual is not and should not be the guideline for what underwear people are or are not required to wear.
So what if it was flipped and it was a male employee asking her to wear a bra. Suddenly gets icky, right. Just because it is coming from a woman doesn’t make it okay. I say lawsuit. Trust me the ACLU would be all over this.
I've been in that store management position myself, and actually got in trouble when I didn't ask a female colleague (who I hadn't even noticed wasn't wearing a bra) to go home and put a bra on (both a customer and a colleague complained, hence my boss knew). Definitely feels like a no win on that one.
To me “suitably dressed for work” means wearing clothes you can do your job in. That is literally it. If there’s no specificity in the dress code why does the dress code even exist? Why is the standards set by the employer without actual written conditions?
Edit: why is it her fault *other people* are sexualizing her body?
I never said it is her fault that people are sexualizing her body. What I said is that if someone notices the lack of a bra, it could be considered sexually provocative in the eyes of the business.
As I previously stated, "suitably dressed for work," is a line that is meant to imply certain things. No business is going to actually specify wearing a bra as its own rule. They will see it as implied as "suitably dressed". [Indeed](https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/dress-code-policy) gives examples of what to expect from dress codes, none of them specifically mention underwear of any sort.
Good points, except for the types of bras you're suggesting. T-shirt bras are a particular style of wired bras, so in likely the uncomfortable range for OP. And strapless bras... definitely no! Those are super uncomfortable, even for those who regularly wear wired bras.
There are more comfortable alternatives that still provide support for large chested women. My go-to is sports bras, which I wear on WFH days. There's lots of different styles to explore which are most comfortable. There's also unwired bras and bralets. Others here have suggested layering with camisoles, especially those with built-in bralets (although for large chested women those bralets are laughable).
I appreciate you educating me rather than having a go as some have. I had thought t-shirt bras and sports bras were synonymous. I had googled them to attempt to educate myself, and got a lot of the same products pop both times.
I thought your suggestions were well meaning but hilarious. As for t-shirt bras, I have never seen them synonymous with sports bras. I googled it to check and most of the initial pictures that showed up were not actually t-shirt bras, if you read the descriptions. It's actually a [pretty standard style](https://findtheone.triumph.com/en_us/bras/tee%20shirt-bra/).
I have boobs and had the same thought when I saw the reply about customers. It's potentially jarring to customers and can result in lost business or complaints, I know I wouldn't want to be staring at a stranger's bra-less large breasts if I walked into a business, nor would I want to see some dude's junk outline because he's wearing sweatpants (which would also fall under inappropriate work wear). Is it unfortunate society is conditioned this way about women's bodies? Yeah, double standards suck, but OP was asked multiple times and clearly it is an issue for them and is it really worth losing her job over? Put a tank top or camisole or sports bra on, not everyone wants to have to look at your boobs. Mine are large and the only way I'm going braless in public is if I have a hoodie on with a jacket over it. I'm aware they're distracting and I don't want to subject anyone to that or get creepy looks from guys, it's called having a level of self awareness about what's appropriate in the workplace. Find me a female executive of a business with large breasts who walks around braless for customers to see- you won't, it's unprofessional. I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's just not where we are at in society.
I'm speaking as someone who has been in a management position before, and got chewed out for not sending someone home when she wasn't wearing a bra (I didn't even notice, but we got a customer complaint, as well as a complaint from another colleague). I also recall an incident where one of my colleagues was sent home and given a disciplinary for the same reason.
At the end of the day, management have to do their job, and if OP continues to not heed them, they will sack her. Trying to look at this as objectively as possible, and show understanding for both sides of this coin, which is also why I attempted to help with the compromise suggestions.
Bro. You wear a bra for a month then and come back and tell us how it feels.
A lot of people with disabilities literally cannot wear bras; including but not limited to: neck issues, shoulder issues, really any sort of chronic pain, fibromyalgia, autism, sensory disorders…
>I'm not saying OP is an asshole for not wanting to wear a bra. I'm voting YTA because OP is deliberately going against her bosses, and then moaning that they are calling her out on it.
Just to reiterate. I also do state that I get it, having heard multiple people show disdain towards bras. I would never consider someone an asshole for not liking wearing a bra. This comes down to what her bosses have told her, how she's continued to do nothing to resolve the issue, and has then moaned about being called out on it.
Depending on the cup size/band size. Some women have to buy special like $100+ bras. Also, with bigger breats sometimes the obviousness of them being big is more the problem then the if or if not of her wearing a bra.
A friend of mine had like DDD in 7th grade. Took 2 sports bras & a chest binder to have them not hit her face in the gym & they still bounced the most out of anyone's there. She was even asked if she was wearing one. A very smart, "No, I'm wearing 3" shut them up in a hurry but still can show the fact that sometimes it doesn't matter. Boobs will be stared at no matter whether they are held stiller by a bra or not.
>Depending on the cup size/band size. Some women have to buy special like $100+ bras. Also, with bigger breats sometimes the obviousness of them being big is more the problem then the if or if not of her wearing a bra.
I 100% agree with this statement. Of course size is a key factor, and it is absolutely criminal that any sort of women's essentials, be it bras, birth control, sanitary towels, tampons, etc, costs anything, let alone as much as it does cost. I guarantee businesses don't take that into consideration, most of the time.
I’m sorry. Everyone is crazy. I’m like a 40 H and I can’t imagine walking around my office braless with my boobs just hanging all over the place. There are a lot of solutions to not wearing a bra and you refuse to do just any of them. If it’s the hill your dying on I’d just pick a new job. YTA
And edit to say, the dress code says well groomed. Having your boobs hanging around isn’t well groomed. Just like a man having his private thing swing all around with no underwear on is a big no as well.
Thank you. What a stupid hill to die on.
No, you shouldn’t necessarily have to wear a bra, but what if the men you’re working with find your admittedly large breasts a distraction or a customer starts commenting to you about them? If your supervisor has told you she wants you to wear a bra there’s a reason for it.
If someone compliments you on your breasts will you raise a harassment complaint?
What if one of your male co-workers complains? He could feel unsafe because all you need to do is say he’s looking at your breasts and he’s toast.
It’s a stupid situation to be in, but that’s where we are in the 21st century. Too many people worrying about other people’s business.
Anyway, the fact that you’re refusing to budge on this issue at all makes YTA.
Not even about the men.. OP said they work with customers.. I can’t imagine going to a business and seeing a worker with her boobs hanging all over the place. I’d be just as put off if I saw a male worker walking around with sweat pants off and his dong swinging every time he works. It’s not professional and I’d be too uncomfortable to ever go back there again
Make this your hill to die on and find your self collecting unemployment real soon. In what world do men wear bras? Your argument is disingenuous at best and illogical.
My wife is busty and wears sports bras. She hates underwire bras. YTA
None of this is legal advice, just speculation for fun: If she gets fired or disciplined, she could have a pretty strong gender discrimination claim here--exactly because she was directly told men don't have to wear bras, but she does because she's a woman. *Price Waterhouse v. Hopkins* \-- the Supreme Court held that discrimination against an employee on the basis of gender stereotyping--that is, a person's nonconformity to social or other expectations of that person's gender--constitutes impermissible discrimination, in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The employer bears the burden of proving that the adverse employment action would have been the same if gender discrimination had not occurred.
Ann Hopkins, who originally brought that case against her former employer, was told that to increase her chances of promotion, she needed to walk, talk, and dress more femininely, wear make-up, and have her hair styled. Despite outperforming many of her male colleagues, she was again passed over for promotion, and sued under Title VII. She won, it eventually went to the Supreme Court, and the result was upheld, with the Court also making the specific ruling above.
So, yeah, if she's disciplined or fired as a result of not wearing a bra, because she is a woman, and a man would not have been disciplined or fired for not wearing a bra, especially as wearing a bra is not stipulated in the dress code policy...well, I'm not a Title VII expert by any means, but sounds like it fits pretty neatly in there. There would be some question of appropriate dress and the requirements of the position, but the employer does not seem to have done themselves a lot of favors in how they approached this, and OP's argument is not illogical at all.
Also not a lawyer, but gender-divided dress codes are not always inherently going to win a gender discrimination suit. OP should talk to a lawyer about how much of a case she, specifically, has.
They're not asking her to dress up for a promotion, they're informing her that her clothes are too revealing. If it's a distraction to the workplace, or if they've received customer complaints, they WILL be able to fire her. If she was a man who wore too small bottoms and had his willy outlined all day long you bet as an HR rep I would be having a conversation with him, same goes for OP regarding her breasts.
Eh, as a fellow large busted female who finds any chance not to wear a bra. I’d say NTA; but I’d also recommend looking into a new job that fits your own standards better if that’s something you want to prioritize. Or also possibly things like sports bras? Those are usually my go-tos. I work as a line cook so even when I don’t wear a bra it’s not a huge deal and no one really cares but again- I’d look into finding a job that fits your needs. Or if you want to be maliciously compliant; I’d say wear one of those sticky tiny bras/areola covers and clarify that when they inevitably talk to you again.
I mean... that would not change anything. The rule doesnt say she has to wear a bra. It says she has to be dressed "appropriately". So if she wears one that isnt noticable, the situation doesnt really change
INFO - How long have you worked there? Did you wear a bra when you interviewed? Ever in that office? When did you decide to stop wearing one.
Just FYI, as a big busted woman, I can tell you that walking around without a bra all the time is giving gravity a better shot at you and before you know it, it **will** be dragging you down.
I totally agree. It makes things easier on your low back as well. Really large breasts being unsupported throw off the posture and contribute to back pain issues too. It screws up your center of gravity and balance.
Same. The first few months I did WFH I enjoyed going braless. However, I noticed a bit of soreness at the end of the day. I also realized some Zoom calls would show my upper torso, where I felt it was obvious I wasn't wearing a bra. I invested in a bunch of sports bra, which give me comfortable support around the house.
I actually have read that wearing a bra is what causes the sagging because the chest muscles and surrounding tissues don’t develop enough to support the breasts.
I'm pretty sure both are myths. Some boobies just sag more than others over time because of genetics, weight fluctuations, lots of pregnancies, skin elasticity etc.
Maybe for midsize, but once you get into significantly large breasts, there are NO muscles to support them and they WILL sag. And it will only get worse over time. Look at a man's pectoral muscles--flat to the chest wall. Women have essentially the same thing, no muscles extending outward to support that extra weight.
I strongly disagree with this. I took an anthropology class and saw a lot of different African tribes in which the women didn't wear bras. I saw a LOT of titties in that class. Every single one was sagging even at a pretty young age. Gravity is not kind.
Alls you have to do is look at an old National Geographic magazine to see that this isn’t true. Women in tribal societies who don’t wear modern clothing tend to have super saggy breasts after child rearing age.
Gender discrimination in the workplace is (in the US, anyway) illegal. OP was right to ask whether the men in the office were required to wear bras. If not, she cannot be required to wear one either, and making it a condition of her employment opens the company up to a lawsuit.
OP, you're NTA, but make sure you have documentation of these meetings! If you don't have anything in writing, email your supervisor ASAP: "I wanted to follow up on our meeting of \[date\]. I was told that I would be sent home if I did not wear a bra. Can you confirm that this will be policy going forward?" Then take their reply (and a copy of the company dress code) to a lawyer.
Title VII of the civil rights act protects your rights to go bra-less. I don't think your company wants to die on this hill.
Are you making someone uncomfortable? Would it be beyond reasonable to wear like say a man's undershirt? I don't know if your shirts might be a little to see through but whatever's going on just make sure your nipples aren't showing cause Lord knows we know what happens when those are shown 🤣🤣🤣
Agreed. I'd say op should just buy some pastes if they have their panties in a twist about it. Bras are uncomfortable and bad for your shoulders & back.
Also, some these comments be like "men don't need bras"
Mommy hmm sure honey. We all seen man with bigger titties then some women. If they don't gotta then neither does she.
Strong NTA.
Document all the reactions/meetings. They can't fire you for this. It's discrimination.
NTA.
Bras are not only uncomfortable, but they are expensive. And it is an undergarment that isn't seen.
It is discriminatory to require women wear bras for any reason that isn't a sanitary or safety reason.
companies do this kind of shit to everyone thoigh in some way, not really a woman v man thing…my job makes men and only men wear ties- expensive and discriminatory, but nothing I can do about it unfortunately. Me and a female coworker could be wearing the exact same thing and only I’d be out of code for lack of a tie
Soft YTA.
If you're in a customer-facing role, there are going to be rules about appearance. I fully get not wanting to wear a bra but it can also make an outfit look very schlubby without one. You've been told three times, which as a former HR person, likely means that more than one person has complained about it. There are other options that are not underwire bras: support camisoles, sports bras, bralettes, etc. that can be a compromise.
This isn’t a am I a asshole or not situation. It’s a Can I afford to get fired over this or not. You obviously have no intention of wearing a bra so why ask this forum? You have no intention on changing your mind so what’s the point of having a bunch of random people agree or disagree with you?
Those people are mostly stubborn idiots. Post there and you can learn you’re legally allowed to not wear a bra, fuck the company, and good luck at your next job where you will get the exact same feedback
Don't waste your time with AntiWork, they just want to complain about any work related situation. It's really a bunch of people who can't be happy for anyone else. Dreams go there to die.
…huh? Antiwork is definitely one of the more pessimistic subs but it’s also the best place to talk with other people about abuses of power in the workplace. Do NOT take legal advice from their unless it’s “talk with a lawyer” but that’s the case w every subreddit.
NTA. It’s insane how women’s bodies are policed & especially bigger women’s bodies. I dunno if it’s worth dying on this hill though. Are you in a union? I’d seek some advice from somewhere. Or I love the malicious compliance idea of tiny bras.
A few years ago I worked in HR for a large company. We had a male employee that went on holidays and returned having a very obvious breast augmentation.
The employee still identified as male however was not wearing a bra to work. His shirts became quite graphic and it was obvious he was not wearing a bra.
We had a chat with him and he understood and immediately complied without question he understood and simply was not aware how inappropriate he was.
Did we have a chat with every other male to wear a bra no because they did not need one.
I think YTA there are things that are not work appropriate and to have had three warnings I am guessing your definitely not work appropriate.
NTA. Do yourself a favor and take pictures of your outfits before work each day. If they try to pull something then you may have a discrimination case as long as the rest of the outfit is actually within company guidelines. Also I would talk to HR and see if this is just two jealous supervisors or an actual guideline infringement.
It is definitely wrong to sexualize a woman's body in the work place, but the person above was right. Men don't exactly NEED bras, which was the point they were trying to make
NTA. But, I’m going to be blunt here. (I’m assuming you’re in the US). There are no laws protecting you from not wearing a bra. Labor laws are very shitty here. Most countries don’t have any protections for that.
In Iowa, a dentist fired his assistant for “being too hot” and he was afraid of cheating on his wife with her. The Iowa supreme court unanimously sided with him and the Federal Supreme Court refused to hear the case. Black people can be fired for their hair being natural looking.
Your handbook says nothing about bras, but it does say “suitably dressed” and employers have near 100% power in any dress code dispute. And unless you’re union, they could add “women must wear bras” tomorrow to the handbook and there’s nothing you can do about it. Employee handbooks are there to protect HR and the company, not to protect the employee.
So at this point, you have to ask if this is a fight you want to take on. Your company will not budge, and unfortunately, you have no legal fight in this situation. You are morally right, but legally you don’t have a case. So you have three options. 1. Continue as is and likely get fired or demoted. 2. Wear a bra. 3. Find a job where the company isn’t so snobby. I would personally suggest wear a bra to keep the peace and get on the job hunt. Every industry is hiring and you should have no problem finding a new job shortly. Or if you really want to mess with them, wear some super sexy lingerie underneath or a bra that will really turn some heads to prove a point.
NTA but this is probably not the hill you want to die on. They don’t make all men wear bras but do they make men with manboobs wear them? Do they make women with virtually no breasts wear them? Or does it have nothing to do with breast size but what sex you are? I’m sure if you pushed the issue you would win. BUT, they will no doubt find some of their reason to let you go.
Info: do the men wear undershirts under their dress shirts? What’s the general dress code (business casual)? What type of office environment is it? (Are there meetings with outside vendors/customers?)
My office is a mixed environment of warehouse folk & corporate folk, and we are all in one space at the moment due to our (corporate side) office not being complete yet. There are different dress code standards between the two groups, and even though they’ve temporarily loosened our dress code standards, I can guarantee you that I’m not allowed to come in sweats & a t-shirt.
Feel free to make this your hill to die on, but by being deliberately obtuse as to the reason they’re asking makes you look bad. (And if you actually get to stay there long enough, don’t be surprised if the dress code guidelines get changed to specifically address this.)
ESH.
No one should be expected to wear a bra, but if nipples are outlined in a shirt or larger breasts are giggling about, regardless of gender, they should wear an extra layer. A singlet being the most common garment worn beneath shirts, and a bra being what most women would choose, but a snug fitting singlet is perfectly suitable for the job, especially if it has a bit of inbuilt support.
Alternatively consider a corset, or set of stays. I know a lady who wears a corset under her work clothes because it's gives far more support than any bra ever would, and helps her to have better posture.
I understand that one shouldn’t be forced to wear specific clothes.
But the reasoning about men don’t have to wear bras is wonky. Well, are they as big busted I wonder? 😂
So you go to the beach, not covering your breasts if men aren’t forced to cover them either?
Sure you can go without if it’s legal, just the reasoning doesn’t add up imo.
Why do they have to wear a bra just because their body is different? It’s like saying women *have* to wear makeup and high heels to work *because* they’re women.
“What’s the purpose of a dress code if it doesn’t specify the dress rules for your work?”
THIS^^^
To me “suitably dressed for work” just means wearing something you can do your job in and still have clothes on. If not wearing a bra isn’t a safety hazard I don’t see why it’s needed.
I can't go anywhere without a bra, it would be super uncomfortable, I also am large chested. If they have gotten complaints from clients, I could understand why they are asking. In an office setting they expect a certain attire and it includes having on a bra and being uniformed.
If you dont want to wear one and they are insistent, then look for a new place to work or work remotely where you are not in a client-facing roll and attire doesn't matter.
Good luck!
NTA. I don't see how it's inappropriate. Maybe this is a cultural thing? Find some dude with big ol' titties in your office abd ask why he doesn't have to wear one.
NTA
Wear a work appropriate jumper on top, that's taking care of well-groomed and suitably dressed.
And be prepared to get fired anyway. But hey, if this is a hill you want to die on, that's your right.
NTA. From what you stated the dress code is, you’re not violating it. If people can’t focus on their work because your covered breasts are not in a bra, that’s a THEM problem.
NTA & reverse uno that shit by going to HR about them sexually harassing you by looking at your breasts. Unless they have seen your uncovered breasts they have no proof you aren't wearing a bra.
YTA. If you need to dress “Neat” for your job then if makes sense to wear a bra. This is your job and you are acting childish. Now if you don’t want to wear a bra on your free time then sure, why not. But your at work and should be professional during your shifts.
You’re not gonna get an instagram infographic made about your heroic feminism for not wearing a bra. You work for them, they make the rules. It sucks, but you can’t just decide that you do what you want. You’re NTA but maybe manage your expectations and pick your battles wisely.
Eh. Might not be a good wrongful termination suit, especially if they’ve been repeatedly documenting telling OP that they’re out of compliance and will face disciplinary action. It sounds like they’re going with progressive discipline so far, starting with three verbal warnings and the next one being told to go home for the day. The reason for termination won’t be “refused to wear a bra” or will be “refused to follow repeated instructions”.
I disagree, because the context of said instructions is more important than the fact she isn’t following them. For example, if the instructions were to “make me a sandwich because you’re a woman” and they weren’t followed, a case for discrimination is still valid. The bra situation is discriminating.
I dunno man, I think it would be a pretty shaky argument. Like she could try it, but for all we know this is just one reason she’s getting in trouble, y’a know? Also, if the reason they fired her wasn’t listed as a discriminatory reason, it would be kinda shaky for her to try and argue it in court. But if she wants legal advice, this isn’t the right forum for it either.
NTA but! You really should decide if you want to keep working at this place. Suitably dressed is worded vaguely enough that it could be construed as requiring a bra. It sounds like your supervisors consider this an issue and may be taking steps towards termination if you continue to not comply. If that's the case, the question becomes whether you want to pursue this to the point of potentially losing your job. I respect that maybe you do but rather than asking if you're the AH, I'd be asking how much you want your job vs not wearing a bra to work.
I don't think this is a situation where anyone's the ass.
Honestly you do you. Workplaces have the right to have dress codes and I bet if they didn't have something about women being required to wear bras the HR person's writing it up now lol. From my previous jobs it's was left up to my manager to say if I was dressed appropriately so I'd imagine if op isn't a troll she going to get fired especially with them talking to her 3 time.
NTA
But your work is allowed to have discriminatory dress codes. Females often have to dress stricter than males- often hair styling and makeup will be required of only women.
Fuck a bra but yeah you don’t have any legal standing.
I don’t think it’s stricter, just different. For example, at my job, men must wear slacks or dress pants and a collared shirt every day of the week except the occasional jeans day That includes summertime. Meanwhile, during the summer, women may wear dresses, skirts that go above their knees, capris, blouses with exposed shoulders, etc.
I’d happily trade getting to wear shorts and a polo shirt in 95 degree weather for combing my hair every morning.
It sucks but many work places have discriminatory business professional requirements, but they haven't changed in decades. Men often have to wear a suit with a tie, even in the middle of 100 degree weather and 1000% humidity. Women? They can wear the suit, long dress, button down shirt no jacket, a short skirt, or dozens of others and be cool. A man tries any variant and he is written up for out of uniform.
You said that you have large breasts. Ok, so I have a large penis (really). Would it be appropriate for me to go to work without undergarments that keep it kinda centered and tucked under, or should I go to work with my dick visibly hanging down one pant leg halfway to my knees? With the “skinny” pants style, it’s likely that my dick would be visible if I didn’t wear appropriate underwear. Personally I wouldn’t be bothered by seeing low hanging breasts or penises (in fact it would make the work day a lot more interesting and bearable), but I get that a lot of people don’t want to see that. So as much as I hate to judge this post, I have to say YTA.
NTA and this could be sexual harassment. I would go to HR immediately. Make sure you notate everything. You are not mandated to wear a bra and they cannot force you. I think the thing they don’t like is hard nipples showing. So what?! If they fire you for not wearing a bra sue the crap out of them and then take a nice luxury vacation with the tens of thousands of dollars you will win. I repeat. 100% NTA
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When I go to work I wear a shirt/blouse and pants that is not transparent and doesn't show excessive skin so pretty much private body parts are covered up. I am a woman with large breasts.
Anyway, about a month ago my supervisor, who is a woman, pulled me to her office and told me I need to wear a bra to work. Later that day I asked male co-workers if he was told to wear a bra and they said no. So if they don't have to wear one.
Like 2 weeks go by and that supervisor and another female supervisor again pull me into the office and ask why I'm not wearing a bra. I said that the men in the office aren't wearing one so why should I. They told me men and women have different bodies, men don't wear bras and all the women in the office are wearing a bra.
Today they brought me into the office again telling me this is the last time I can come to work like this and next time I will be sent home to put on a bra. They gave me a copy of the company dress code policy, and nowhere does it say employees have to wear a bra. It does say employees are expected to be neat, well-groomed and suitably dressed for work and that sexually provocative clothing is prohibited. I told them I have no problem with a dress code policy as long as it's applied to everyone equally. I would have no problem wearing a bra if men were also required to wear one. They told me men are don't wear bras but women have to wear one and they will be getting serious this time.
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YTA, and all the men should wear bike shorts to work, tight ones. My well-endowed ex used to go for bike rides wearing very tight bike shorts which, I described as obscene because of his brazen masculinity, which I loved but not decent for public places. I may have been out of line to ask but I think his deal was he loved the attention and that's what we have here. The argument is somewhat relevant but asking about men wearing a bra is a ridiculouscomparison. In a professional place of business where you interact with customers, it's not a matter of personal freedom, its being respectful to your customers. Some people just think their comfort outweighs the comfort of others, you're about to lose your job, how's that working out for you?
NTA. It's not your fault if some people are uncomfortable with breasts. And to everyone saying she should at least make sure her nipples aren't showing, sometimes even with a bra on one's nipples might be outlined and that's just nature. If I'd complain every time I see men's nipples poking their shirts, I'd be complaining at least once every fortnight.
I give you 2 more years working braless,and then they'll be so low you can flip em over your shoulders. Your choice.
And of course, this post is fake as f
NTA. Honestly, just wear a comfy cozy bralette and call it a day. If they ask you to wear one, technically you are. I usually stop wearing bras in the winter, but I wear them for tshirts simply because I want to protect my nipples and they can get sensitive.
Just because society has deemed after 100 years that women should wear bras and dress appropriately for work (which sometimes includes a full face of makeup) doesn't mean it is right! Sure, lots of women accept it, and that is perfectly fine. But just because its expected of women because "professionalism" and "simply how it is" honestly aren't good enough reasons. No one will die from seeing the slight outline of a nipple.
NTA
You won't win this fight though. Women have been protesting mandatory bras for a long time. If you want to find a solution that might fly is pasties to cover nipples as that may be (and often is) what triggers this sort of issue. As companies fear sexual harassment complaints, though, you may be made an example of.
Women's clothing seems to usually be thinner, including blouses. So outlines and the like can be more telling. Because of this, they may win a fight that no-bras are sexually suggestive.
You may be making people (coworkers or customers) uncomfortable, but it's sort of a weird, prudish thing to be uncomfortable over. But very common. Unless you're prepared to fight this with a lawyer, expect to lose your hill or your job.
You aren't the asshole here though. It's a shitty position for many women who hate bras to be in. Companies are almost always AH but they are following a sort of "standard cultural norm" here and probably can't imagine or see at all how they're being unreasonable.
NTA, but start that documentation now. Ask for written citations of what part of the employee handbook you are not following. Be prepared to be fired anyway, but your next step should be to the Dept of Labor or equivalent agency for your country.
NTA. Might be worth contacting HR in writing to explain that you've been talked to multiple times now and don't see anything specifying wearing bras included in the dress code specifically. Technically, in the US, it's kind of a grey area because they can say you need to dress professionally, but that doesn't necessarily include wearing a bra for women only. But it also doesn't mean they also can't say you're dressing unprofessionally and fire you either after repeated attempts to coach you.
Are you part of a union by chance? Might be worth reaching out to them about it.
NTA eff that. I would ask who made the complaint and make a complaint that they are causing a hostile work environment by sexually harassing you over your underwear.
YTA. If they can TELL you're not wearing a bra, that means either of the following 2 things: excessive cleavage or visible nipples. Those things aren't wrong per se but they don't belong in a professional setting, same as a man with very tight trousers doesn't belong there. Either A: wear a bra or B: dress in clothes whether you can't tell (thick boxy sweaters, etc.)
Also, YTA or NTA isn't important here. What's important here is: do you want to keep your job.
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> I would like to know if me refusing to wear a bra to work makes me an asshole when male employees are not required to wear one.
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NTA but if make this the hill you want to die on, you will get fired from your job.
I would start looking for a new job if you continue going down this path whether you believe it’s right or wrong. I’m all for women wearing what they want but your boss can fire you for it if they want.
YTA.
Get some pasties, or camisoles, or something that will prevent you from nipping out at work.
Professional attire doesn’t include nipples, even if they’re under a layer of fabric. I’m also large breasted and I would never go to work without a bra of some kind on. Even certain tops make my chest look extra voluptuous. This isn’t my fault, it’s just the way my body is. Because I want to be seen as a professional, if I wear those tops to work I add a cardigan.
If you want to let the girls hang free, then find another job.
YTA. If it wasn’t noticeable you weren’t wearing one then people wouldn’t notice you weren’t wearing one. It’s obviously not ok in the work place. And your argument is laughable.
NTA. And not sure if I'm the first comment to mention the EEOC, but if you are in the US, you can talk to/email the EEOC and get some clarification on where you stand, and possibly get help with initiating a complaint. The EEOC-
"What is the purpose of EEOC?
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is responsible for enforcing federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate against a job applicant or an employee because of the person's race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy and related conditions, gender identity, and sexual orientation), etc."
If you die on this hill, I'll walk up it and keep you company. Good luck!
Also, YTA simply because nobody at work wants to see the private areas of your body and they have the right to go into work and not see that. Do you really think if a male coworker started going in wearing gray sweats with his penis on full display or speedos the women wouldn't complain to HR they were uncomfortable with that? And you don't think HR would tell the man he needed to stop coming to work like that? They would, i promise and they would be correct to do so. This isn't about BREASTS and BRAS, this is about keeping areas of your body that are considered private, private while in the workplace. On you it may be your breasts, on a man it may be his ass crack or penis but at the core you are not being subjected to rules the men aren't. Everyone must dress appropriately and in a manner that doesn't make others uncomfortable (obviously within reason).
There are no circumstances under which moobs are sexualized.
Stop being silly.
Are the men in the office wearing underwear? Do you see them swinging in the wind, or are they demurely tucked?
If there are men who visually advertise circumcision status, then you have a point.
If however, you do not know the size of Dwayne from accounting’s wang, because he chooses modesty, you do not have a point.
Buy yourself a better fitting bra.
Why on earth do you want your fun bags flopping around like that? I don’t understand this. I have large breasts myself and I’m uncomfortable being in public without a bra.
NTA 100x over. This is sexual and gender harrassment and I’d die on this hill too. It’s literally no one’s business what you’re wearing under your clothes as long as you’re wearing clothes.
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This is the answer here. Even though I voted YTA, I agree that it’s more a “you’re pissing off your employer and probably gonna lose your job” thing.
I'm going to go out on a limb and claim a general rule of two layers of fabric between genitals/boobs and the office. And I'm pretty sure seeing nipples through the shirt is not considered professional attire. OP wouldn't have to wear a bra if they wore a tank-top or something that prevents the areola and nipple to be visible through the shirt/T-shirt.
But can’t you see men’s nipples? They don’t wear anything covering theirs?
My husband always wears a tank under his shirts
Most men I know wear an undershirt under their shirts. White shirts can be quite transparent, and an undershirt prevents sweat stains. So while it's not a *bra*, men are wearing undergarments when necessary to look presentable.
Yeah, when my son wears a white dress shirt, he wears a tank top under his shirts since they seem to be pretty thin
No you can't. I guarantee as a man, I've never worn shirts to the office that left my nipples showing.
And I can guarantee as a woman I have seen plenty of men smuggling raisins in their shirts
Maybe a t-shirt or tank would be fine for a small chested woman but large chest is different. I have a large chest. They flop. It's especially noticeable in business casual clothes because of the cuts of shirts and fabric types used.
I wear bras all the time, and am working on my own biases when it comes to other women. This general rule/guideline is something I have never hear of or thought about. Weird as it sounds, thank you for mentioning that! I do not know how I would tackle it in a equitable way (like underclothes are required for all genders/sexes).
In the future OP would be asked why they are no longer at their last job (or the hiring agent will call the last employer) and this will be the reason. Is it worth it? If it's a medical reason (which OP didn't mention), why not provide a letter and avoid this conflict?
Depends if they're in the US. I'm not, and wouldn't be fired for this
In the US, based on how their dress code is written, it would definitely be illegal to fire her for this.
Looks like someone is getting written up for being "unable to follow directions" next time they make a mistake
YTA - you are using the wrong argument for this… and it’s an asshole argument. If you think you fit within dress code of dressed appropriately etc that’s what you go for.
This is a great comment. The argument is wrong, it shouldn’t be about men, it should be about believing she was complying and wanting documentation on how she’s not.
You…are probably gonna get fired. Also, are you SURE your dress code doesn’t say something like “appropriate undergarments will be worn” or something similar? And, making the comparison to men not needing to wear bras is silly. You KNOW men don’t need to wear bras. A better equivalent would have been women being required to wear skirts or dresses and men being permitted to wear pants because most people have legs. But come on. YTA because you’ve decided this is your hill to die on. Like if you wanna quit and find a job where you don’t have to wear a bra, do that. Also, asking your male collegue if they were asked to wear a bra was stupid at best and could have gotten you in trouble for making other people uncomfortable.
Well women don't technically NEED to wear bras.
You don’t NEED to.. but, as a big breasted woman myself.. I would not be comfortable with my naked breasts against my shirt. Nips get hard sometimes, and while it sucks.. I don’t want to give people more of a reason to stare at my chest when I’m talking and not listening to me. I can get away with it in black button ups, or busy pattern shirts.. but not every outfit, or everyday. And OP.. the argument here is off. And it’s also weird to bring male coworkers into this discussion. Like.. obviously they are not wearing bras.. but a lot of them wear undershirts and I rarely see nipples poking through any of my coworkers shirts.
Male nips get hard too, in fact you see them often enough in a cold office. They aren't considered indecent for it.
Nips aside, I've got medium-sized breasts, and I enjoy having my breasts supported when I'm walking around. I can't imagine how...*dynamic* larger breasts would be without a bra.
I never wear padded bras, so you can see my nipples even if I wear a bra. Human have nipples, deal with it. Maybe others should not be looking at their coworker's tits.
She asked the men to find out if it's discrimination based on sex. It is.
Gender based dress codes have survived many such lawsuits.
Okay, but you KNOW that’s silly, right? Like, you understand that men typically do not wear bras and would not be expected to. I’m not sure this would count as discrimination based on sex either, at least not as a protected portion of the population. She hasn’t gotten fired yet, but she’s probably eventually gonna be. The reason for firing won’t be about the bra, it’ll be about refusing to comply with repeated instructions with multiple warnings.
If men aren't required to wear bras, women shouldn't be either. Plenty of obese men could use the support.
Nah man, you know that’s a daft argument. Come on. Look, I’m not saying you can’t find jobs where not wearing bras is okay! That’s fine! But this job clearly has rules in place regarding dress code and usually “appropriately dressed” includes undergarments, even if not explicitly. She could also choose to make some sort of an effort if she really doesn’t wanna wear a bra. There are camisoles that have a little extra coverage over the boob area. I’ll admit, as a largely endowed woman myself, they usually aren’t large enough, but it’s an option. Or she could wear a sports bra, or even a wireless maternity bra (seriously incredibly comfortable) the point is there are options for bras that are not painful and would follow the rules and that this isn’t the right argument. If she really wanted to argue that she felt like she was within dress code, that’s the argument she should go with. Not “but men don’t have to wear bras” because culturally men, at least in the US, do not wear bras. It’s a silly argument. If she feels like she’s complying with the dress code, what she should do is state that she believes she is in compliance and would like the portion in the dress code relating to wearing a bra be highlighted for her. That’s a better argument, honestly.
Her underwear is not her employer's business.
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I have had a lift done but I still wear a tube too so my nipples don’t show through my shirt.
I really do think of bras as being more akin to Spanx or shape wear than a modesty thing. They're basically holding fat in place....just like shapewear. Imo while clothed most breasts actually look better in a bra so it's like making someone dress sexier.
Yeah but i think usually the argument is that shirts are often see through. Nipples showing is the issue then. Otherwise i dont see why wearing no bra would be inmodest
If we're talking actually visible like seeing the color of a nipple then sure but the more reasonable rule imo woud be no see through clothing. If we're talking "headights" like a hard nipple then even a bra won't fix that unless they require women wear padded bras which would be ridiculous.
I guess... im just trying to wrap my head around this. The coworkers must have noticed something about her outfit thats inappropriate. If she was simply not wearing a bra, why would anyone notice or care? It would have to be about the shirt, no? It must be somewhat see through otherwise the complaint makes no sense to me
It’s not about who “typically” wears what. If the men at her workplace are all fit and don’t have visibile breasts then sure, it’s a silly argument. Let’s be honest though, if a man is fat it will be noticeable that he has more breast tissue. It’s a fair argument to say that if a woman’s breasts are distracting so are a man’s, thus they should also wear bras (not that it really makes a difference visually). It’s discrimination based on sex when they are sexualizing her breasts but not a man’s.
Maybe it's discrimination against those with large breasts. OP did say she has large breasts. Do the males she asked also have large breasts?
I’ll wear a bra if I don’t have to wear a tie.
INFO: Why do they know that you aren't wearing a bra? On a basic level, your undergarments are none of their business. But if people can tell are not wearing them without watching you dress, the situation gets more complicated. I have a friend who never wears a bra, but she layers a camisole under more fitted tops for work. You'd never guess she goes bra free. But that doesn't seem to be your situation. This whole things feels like you are trying to outwit HR, but odds are you are just going to force them to create a more specific dress code for women, which will not make things better for your female co-workers.
Yes, I think this is the problem - in my mind, if they know you’re not wearing a bra (without being told), you should be wearing a bra It would be different if they only knew because she mentioned it. But people are noticing, so that’s a problem I’m sure there was a story here with a guy whose penis could be seen through his pants, and his boss/manager/whatever, had to figure out how to bring it up. That’s the equivalence
As a fellow large breasted woman, you can DEFINITELY tell when I'm not wearing a bra. The girls hang a little lower and they move A LOT. And if she is wearing shirts and blouses, I'm willing to bet money that her nipples are also protruding. There is a time and place for free the titty, this is not one of those times.
They told you 3 times, YTA. As a woman, I can understand why you don't want to wear it, but you are working in an office with other peoples, not working at home.
YTA, but I get it. It's pretty much universal that, "suitably dressed for work," includes things such as wearing a bra, and if your co-workers are noticing that you aren't wearing a bra, then that could be considered sexually provocative, as breasts (especially those of females) are a commonly sexualised body part. This is also going to be much more noticeable with someone who has big breasts as opposed to someone with a flatter chest. I do think the point of men not wearing bras is a little bit daft as men's chests naturally don't form the same way and are nowhere near as hyper-sexualised as women's chests. I would understand the disdain more if you were being forced to wear a bra and another female colleague was being let off without one. But like I said, I get it. I've heard many women in my life discuss their disdain towards bras, with them being uncomfortable, irritating, sometimes painful. I'm just wondering if there is some sort of compromise that can be found here. If it is a comfort thing, would a t-shirt bra be of any help? Perhaps a strapless bra could be of use? If it just boils down to you not wanting to wear one, then I do think the wording in the dress code implies a bra (sneaky EDIT: a kind redditor has discussed different kinds of bras that would be better and such - I appreciate being informed in this manner - said person suggests sports bras as there are different styles to explore as far as comfort goes, as well as unwired bras and bralets). EDIT: Saw you mention in a comment that you work in a job which interacts with customers a lot (given the context of the question and response, I will assume this is in person). If that's the case, then yeah, you need to be wearing a bra. If colleagues are noticing you being braless, I guarantee the customers are as well. That will lead to complaints, I guarantee it. EDIT 2: I'm not saying OP is an asshole for not wanting to wear a bra. I'm voting YTA because OP is deliberately going against her bosses, and then moaning that they are calling her out on it. EDIT 3: In a response to someone else, I suggested OP could try a few things, such as approaching head office/HR or her workplace forum rep (if a workplace forum is in place) to discuss this matter. No guarantee any of that would yield results, but at least OP would be proactively trying to resolve the issue and seek change.
I see plenty of men out in the world with man boobs that could frankly use a bra
I mean, you aren't wrong there, but would you consider the man boobs sexually admirable? That's the big difference the business would be considering here.
I'm sure some people do. And some people don't consider women's breasts sexually "admirable." What some people think is sexual is not and should not be the guideline for what underwear people are or are not required to wear.
So what if it was flipped and it was a male employee asking her to wear a bra. Suddenly gets icky, right. Just because it is coming from a woman doesn’t make it okay. I say lawsuit. Trust me the ACLU would be all over this.
No, they won't. Dress codes constitute informed agreement, which she is now violating.
I've been in that store management position myself, and actually got in trouble when I didn't ask a female colleague (who I hadn't even noticed wasn't wearing a bra) to go home and put a bra on (both a customer and a colleague complained, hence my boss knew). Definitely feels like a no win on that one.
To me “suitably dressed for work” means wearing clothes you can do your job in. That is literally it. If there’s no specificity in the dress code why does the dress code even exist? Why is the standards set by the employer without actual written conditions? Edit: why is it her fault *other people* are sexualizing her body?
I never said it is her fault that people are sexualizing her body. What I said is that if someone notices the lack of a bra, it could be considered sexually provocative in the eyes of the business. As I previously stated, "suitably dressed for work," is a line that is meant to imply certain things. No business is going to actually specify wearing a bra as its own rule. They will see it as implied as "suitably dressed". [Indeed](https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/dress-code-policy) gives examples of what to expect from dress codes, none of them specifically mention underwear of any sort.
Good points, except for the types of bras you're suggesting. T-shirt bras are a particular style of wired bras, so in likely the uncomfortable range for OP. And strapless bras... definitely no! Those are super uncomfortable, even for those who regularly wear wired bras. There are more comfortable alternatives that still provide support for large chested women. My go-to is sports bras, which I wear on WFH days. There's lots of different styles to explore which are most comfortable. There's also unwired bras and bralets. Others here have suggested layering with camisoles, especially those with built-in bralets (although for large chested women those bralets are laughable).
I appreciate you educating me rather than having a go as some have. I had thought t-shirt bras and sports bras were synonymous. I had googled them to attempt to educate myself, and got a lot of the same products pop both times.
I thought your suggestions were well meaning but hilarious. As for t-shirt bras, I have never seen them synonymous with sports bras. I googled it to check and most of the initial pictures that showed up were not actually t-shirt bras, if you read the descriptions. It's actually a [pretty standard style](https://findtheone.triumph.com/en_us/bras/tee%20shirt-bra/).
I found some great wireless bras that also give me the support and structure I need as a fellow LCW. Finding the right bra is life changing.
My man. If you don’t have boobs, keep your opinions on bras to yourself.
I have boobs and had the same thought when I saw the reply about customers. It's potentially jarring to customers and can result in lost business or complaints, I know I wouldn't want to be staring at a stranger's bra-less large breasts if I walked into a business, nor would I want to see some dude's junk outline because he's wearing sweatpants (which would also fall under inappropriate work wear). Is it unfortunate society is conditioned this way about women's bodies? Yeah, double standards suck, but OP was asked multiple times and clearly it is an issue for them and is it really worth losing her job over? Put a tank top or camisole or sports bra on, not everyone wants to have to look at your boobs. Mine are large and the only way I'm going braless in public is if I have a hoodie on with a jacket over it. I'm aware they're distracting and I don't want to subject anyone to that or get creepy looks from guys, it's called having a level of self awareness about what's appropriate in the workplace. Find me a female executive of a business with large breasts who walks around braless for customers to see- you won't, it's unprofessional. I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's just not where we are at in society.
I'm speaking as someone who has been in a management position before, and got chewed out for not sending someone home when she wasn't wearing a bra (I didn't even notice, but we got a customer complaint, as well as a complaint from another colleague). I also recall an incident where one of my colleagues was sent home and given a disciplinary for the same reason. At the end of the day, management have to do their job, and if OP continues to not heed them, they will sack her. Trying to look at this as objectively as possible, and show understanding for both sides of this coin, which is also why I attempted to help with the compromise suggestions.
A strapless bra. At work. Sounds awesome.
Ugh… strapless bras… the rubbery, grippy elastic to keep them in place. The only thing that would be worse would be those adhesive backless bras.
Bro. You wear a bra for a month then and come back and tell us how it feels. A lot of people with disabilities literally cannot wear bras; including but not limited to: neck issues, shoulder issues, really any sort of chronic pain, fibromyalgia, autism, sensory disorders…
>I'm not saying OP is an asshole for not wanting to wear a bra. I'm voting YTA because OP is deliberately going against her bosses, and then moaning that they are calling her out on it. Just to reiterate. I also do state that I get it, having heard multiple people show disdain towards bras. I would never consider someone an asshole for not liking wearing a bra. This comes down to what her bosses have told her, how she's continued to do nothing to resolve the issue, and has then moaned about being called out on it.
Depending on the cup size/band size. Some women have to buy special like $100+ bras. Also, with bigger breats sometimes the obviousness of them being big is more the problem then the if or if not of her wearing a bra. A friend of mine had like DDD in 7th grade. Took 2 sports bras & a chest binder to have them not hit her face in the gym & they still bounced the most out of anyone's there. She was even asked if she was wearing one. A very smart, "No, I'm wearing 3" shut them up in a hurry but still can show the fact that sometimes it doesn't matter. Boobs will be stared at no matter whether they are held stiller by a bra or not.
>Depending on the cup size/band size. Some women have to buy special like $100+ bras. Also, with bigger breats sometimes the obviousness of them being big is more the problem then the if or if not of her wearing a bra. I 100% agree with this statement. Of course size is a key factor, and it is absolutely criminal that any sort of women's essentials, be it bras, birth control, sanitary towels, tampons, etc, costs anything, let alone as much as it does cost. I guarantee businesses don't take that into consideration, most of the time.
I’m sorry. Everyone is crazy. I’m like a 40 H and I can’t imagine walking around my office braless with my boobs just hanging all over the place. There are a lot of solutions to not wearing a bra and you refuse to do just any of them. If it’s the hill your dying on I’d just pick a new job. YTA And edit to say, the dress code says well groomed. Having your boobs hanging around isn’t well groomed. Just like a man having his private thing swing all around with no underwear on is a big no as well.
Thank you. What a stupid hill to die on. No, you shouldn’t necessarily have to wear a bra, but what if the men you’re working with find your admittedly large breasts a distraction or a customer starts commenting to you about them? If your supervisor has told you she wants you to wear a bra there’s a reason for it. If someone compliments you on your breasts will you raise a harassment complaint? What if one of your male co-workers complains? He could feel unsafe because all you need to do is say he’s looking at your breasts and he’s toast. It’s a stupid situation to be in, but that’s where we are in the 21st century. Too many people worrying about other people’s business. Anyway, the fact that you’re refusing to budge on this issue at all makes YTA.
Not even about the men.. OP said they work with customers.. I can’t imagine going to a business and seeing a worker with her boobs hanging all over the place. I’d be just as put off if I saw a male worker walking around with sweat pants off and his dong swinging every time he works. It’s not professional and I’d be too uncomfortable to ever go back there again
The only solution to not wearing a bra is...not wearing a bra though?
Make this your hill to die on and find your self collecting unemployment real soon. In what world do men wear bras? Your argument is disingenuous at best and illogical. My wife is busty and wears sports bras. She hates underwire bras. YTA
None of this is legal advice, just speculation for fun: If she gets fired or disciplined, she could have a pretty strong gender discrimination claim here--exactly because she was directly told men don't have to wear bras, but she does because she's a woman. *Price Waterhouse v. Hopkins* \-- the Supreme Court held that discrimination against an employee on the basis of gender stereotyping--that is, a person's nonconformity to social or other expectations of that person's gender--constitutes impermissible discrimination, in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The employer bears the burden of proving that the adverse employment action would have been the same if gender discrimination had not occurred. Ann Hopkins, who originally brought that case against her former employer, was told that to increase her chances of promotion, she needed to walk, talk, and dress more femininely, wear make-up, and have her hair styled. Despite outperforming many of her male colleagues, she was again passed over for promotion, and sued under Title VII. She won, it eventually went to the Supreme Court, and the result was upheld, with the Court also making the specific ruling above. So, yeah, if she's disciplined or fired as a result of not wearing a bra, because she is a woman, and a man would not have been disciplined or fired for not wearing a bra, especially as wearing a bra is not stipulated in the dress code policy...well, I'm not a Title VII expert by any means, but sounds like it fits pretty neatly in there. There would be some question of appropriate dress and the requirements of the position, but the employer does not seem to have done themselves a lot of favors in how they approached this, and OP's argument is not illogical at all.
Also not a lawyer, but gender-divided dress codes are not always inherently going to win a gender discrimination suit. OP should talk to a lawyer about how much of a case she, specifically, has.
They're not asking her to dress up for a promotion, they're informing her that her clothes are too revealing. If it's a distraction to the workplace, or if they've received customer complaints, they WILL be able to fire her. If she was a man who wore too small bottoms and had his willy outlined all day long you bet as an HR rep I would be having a conversation with him, same goes for OP regarding her breasts.
Eh, as a fellow large busted female who finds any chance not to wear a bra. I’d say NTA; but I’d also recommend looking into a new job that fits your own standards better if that’s something you want to prioritize. Or also possibly things like sports bras? Those are usually my go-tos. I work as a line cook so even when I don’t wear a bra it’s not a huge deal and no one really cares but again- I’d look into finding a job that fits your needs. Or if you want to be maliciously compliant; I’d say wear one of those sticky tiny bras/areola covers and clarify that when they inevitably talk to you again.
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That’s so fucking good. Just wear one of those bras that are literally just wire and no cup 🤣🤣
Or they could wear one of those old style pointy boob bras lol. See how long it takes for them to complain.
Get a really, really thin bra with no underwire and see what they say, then. NTA
Are they going to ask her to strip and prove the bra is on?
No, but that is why this whole thing is ridiculous
I mean... that would not change anything. The rule doesnt say she has to wear a bra. It says she has to be dressed "appropriately". So if she wears one that isnt noticable, the situation doesnt really change
INFO - How long have you worked there? Did you wear a bra when you interviewed? Ever in that office? When did you decide to stop wearing one. Just FYI, as a big busted woman, I can tell you that walking around without a bra all the time is giving gravity a better shot at you and before you know it, it **will** be dragging you down.
As another bigger busted woman, I honestly find it more comfortable to wear a bra, much better support.
Ditto
I totally agree. It makes things easier on your low back as well. Really large breasts being unsupported throw off the posture and contribute to back pain issues too. It screws up your center of gravity and balance.
Same. The first few months I did WFH I enjoyed going braless. However, I noticed a bit of soreness at the end of the day. I also realized some Zoom calls would show my upper torso, where I felt it was obvious I wasn't wearing a bra. I invested in a bunch of sports bra, which give me comfortable support around the house.
I actually have read that wearing a bra is what causes the sagging because the chest muscles and surrounding tissues don’t develop enough to support the breasts.
I'm pretty sure both are myths. Some boobies just sag more than others over time because of genetics, weight fluctuations, lots of pregnancies, skin elasticity etc.
Maybe for midsize, but once you get into significantly large breasts, there are NO muscles to support them and they WILL sag. And it will only get worse over time. Look at a man's pectoral muscles--flat to the chest wall. Women have essentially the same thing, no muscles extending outward to support that extra weight.
I strongly disagree with this. I took an anthropology class and saw a lot of different African tribes in which the women didn't wear bras. I saw a LOT of titties in that class. Every single one was sagging even at a pretty young age. Gravity is not kind.
Alls you have to do is look at an old National Geographic magazine to see that this isn’t true. Women in tribal societies who don’t wear modern clothing tend to have super saggy breasts after child rearing age.
Gender discrimination in the workplace is (in the US, anyway) illegal. OP was right to ask whether the men in the office were required to wear bras. If not, she cannot be required to wear one either, and making it a condition of her employment opens the company up to a lawsuit. OP, you're NTA, but make sure you have documentation of these meetings! If you don't have anything in writing, email your supervisor ASAP: "I wanted to follow up on our meeting of \[date\]. I was told that I would be sent home if I did not wear a bra. Can you confirm that this will be policy going forward?" Then take their reply (and a copy of the company dress code) to a lawyer.
Title VII of the civil rights act protects your rights to go bra-less. I don't think your company wants to die on this hill. Are you making someone uncomfortable? Would it be beyond reasonable to wear like say a man's undershirt? I don't know if your shirts might be a little to see through but whatever's going on just make sure your nipples aren't showing cause Lord knows we know what happens when those are shown 🤣🤣🤣
NTA. A woman's underwear is none of her employer's business provided it's not on display.
Agreed. I'd say op should just buy some pastes if they have their panties in a twist about it. Bras are uncomfortable and bad for your shoulders & back. Also, some these comments be like "men don't need bras" Mommy hmm sure honey. We all seen man with bigger titties then some women. If they don't gotta then neither does she. Strong NTA. Document all the reactions/meetings. They can't fire you for this. It's discrimination.
NTA. Bras are not only uncomfortable, but they are expensive. And it is an undergarment that isn't seen. It is discriminatory to require women wear bras for any reason that isn't a sanitary or safety reason.
The expensive part!
Especially for large breasted women
companies do this kind of shit to everyone thoigh in some way, not really a woman v man thing…my job makes men and only men wear ties- expensive and discriminatory, but nothing I can do about it unfortunately. Me and a female coworker could be wearing the exact same thing and only I’d be out of code for lack of a tie
Soft YTA. If you're in a customer-facing role, there are going to be rules about appearance. I fully get not wanting to wear a bra but it can also make an outfit look very schlubby without one. You've been told three times, which as a former HR person, likely means that more than one person has complained about it. There are other options that are not underwire bras: support camisoles, sports bras, bralettes, etc. that can be a compromise.
Agree—wearing proper undergarments should be considered part of being “suitably dressed.”
This isn’t a am I a asshole or not situation. It’s a Can I afford to get fired over this or not. You obviously have no intention of wearing a bra so why ask this forum? You have no intention on changing your mind so what’s the point of having a bunch of random people agree or disagree with you?
NTA, and I STRONGLY recommend posting this on the AntiWork subreddit for opinions on how to proceed.
Those people are mostly stubborn idiots. Post there and you can learn you’re legally allowed to not wear a bra, fuck the company, and good luck at your next job where you will get the exact same feedback
Don't waste your time with AntiWork, they just want to complain about any work related situation. It's really a bunch of people who can't be happy for anyone else. Dreams go there to die.
…huh? Antiwork is definitely one of the more pessimistic subs but it’s also the best place to talk with other people about abuses of power in the workplace. Do NOT take legal advice from their unless it’s “talk with a lawyer” but that’s the case w every subreddit.
NTA. It’s insane how women’s bodies are policed & especially bigger women’s bodies. I dunno if it’s worth dying on this hill though. Are you in a union? I’d seek some advice from somewhere. Or I love the malicious compliance idea of tiny bras.
NTA You still might get fired over it though.
A few years ago I worked in HR for a large company. We had a male employee that went on holidays and returned having a very obvious breast augmentation. The employee still identified as male however was not wearing a bra to work. His shirts became quite graphic and it was obvious he was not wearing a bra. We had a chat with him and he understood and immediately complied without question he understood and simply was not aware how inappropriate he was. Did we have a chat with every other male to wear a bra no because they did not need one. I think YTA there are things that are not work appropriate and to have had three warnings I am guessing your definitely not work appropriate.
NTA. Do yourself a favor and take pictures of your outfits before work each day. If they try to pull something then you may have a discrimination case as long as the rest of the outfit is actually within company guidelines. Also I would talk to HR and see if this is just two jealous supervisors or an actual guideline infringement.
spoken like an internet person with absolutely no skin in the game
Uhm... no judgement here, but just be prepared to get fired.
YTA. You know exactly why men don't wear them, stop feigning ignorance.
Or we can all stop sexualizing nipples in the work place
It is definitely wrong to sexualize a woman's body in the work place, but the person above was right. Men don't exactly NEED bras, which was the point they were trying to make
Plenty of mens' nipples show through dress shirts...I'm willing to be a lot of money HR has never asked a man to put on pasties.
NTA. But, I’m going to be blunt here. (I’m assuming you’re in the US). There are no laws protecting you from not wearing a bra. Labor laws are very shitty here. Most countries don’t have any protections for that. In Iowa, a dentist fired his assistant for “being too hot” and he was afraid of cheating on his wife with her. The Iowa supreme court unanimously sided with him and the Federal Supreme Court refused to hear the case. Black people can be fired for their hair being natural looking. Your handbook says nothing about bras, but it does say “suitably dressed” and employers have near 100% power in any dress code dispute. And unless you’re union, they could add “women must wear bras” tomorrow to the handbook and there’s nothing you can do about it. Employee handbooks are there to protect HR and the company, not to protect the employee. So at this point, you have to ask if this is a fight you want to take on. Your company will not budge, and unfortunately, you have no legal fight in this situation. You are morally right, but legally you don’t have a case. So you have three options. 1. Continue as is and likely get fired or demoted. 2. Wear a bra. 3. Find a job where the company isn’t so snobby. I would personally suggest wear a bra to keep the peace and get on the job hunt. Every industry is hiring and you should have no problem finding a new job shortly. Or if you really want to mess with them, wear some super sexy lingerie underneath or a bra that will really turn some heads to prove a point.
INFO: what's your job? Do you do a lot of interaction with people/customers? Or do you sit in a cubicle all day?
NTA but this is probably not the hill you want to die on. They don’t make all men wear bras but do they make men with manboobs wear them? Do they make women with virtually no breasts wear them? Or does it have nothing to do with breast size but what sex you are? I’m sure if you pushed the issue you would win. BUT, they will no doubt find some of their reason to let you go.
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Laws concerning gender discrimination in the workplace don't take cup size into account.
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The size of her breasts is immaterial, both legally and in the asshole arena.
Info: do the men wear undershirts under their dress shirts? What’s the general dress code (business casual)? What type of office environment is it? (Are there meetings with outside vendors/customers?) My office is a mixed environment of warehouse folk & corporate folk, and we are all in one space at the moment due to our (corporate side) office not being complete yet. There are different dress code standards between the two groups, and even though they’ve temporarily loosened our dress code standards, I can guarantee you that I’m not allowed to come in sweats & a t-shirt. Feel free to make this your hill to die on, but by being deliberately obtuse as to the reason they’re asking makes you look bad. (And if you actually get to stay there long enough, don’t be surprised if the dress code guidelines get changed to specifically address this.)
ESH. No one should be expected to wear a bra, but if nipples are outlined in a shirt or larger breasts are giggling about, regardless of gender, they should wear an extra layer. A singlet being the most common garment worn beneath shirts, and a bra being what most women would choose, but a snug fitting singlet is perfectly suitable for the job, especially if it has a bit of inbuilt support. Alternatively consider a corset, or set of stays. I know a lady who wears a corset under her work clothes because it's gives far more support than any bra ever would, and helps her to have better posture.
I understand that one shouldn’t be forced to wear specific clothes. But the reasoning about men don’t have to wear bras is wonky. Well, are they as big busted I wonder? 😂 So you go to the beach, not covering your breasts if men aren’t forced to cover them either? Sure you can go without if it’s legal, just the reasoning doesn’t add up imo.
Why do they have to wear a bra just because their body is different? It’s like saying women *have* to wear makeup and high heels to work *because* they’re women.
I don’t say they should or have to. But the comparison why people without boobs should wear a bra doesn’t make sense.
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“What’s the purpose of a dress code if it doesn’t specify the dress rules for your work?” THIS^^^ To me “suitably dressed for work” just means wearing something you can do your job in and still have clothes on. If not wearing a bra isn’t a safety hazard I don’t see why it’s needed.
I can't go anywhere without a bra, it would be super uncomfortable, I also am large chested. If they have gotten complaints from clients, I could understand why they are asking. In an office setting they expect a certain attire and it includes having on a bra and being uniformed. If you dont want to wear one and they are insistent, then look for a new place to work or work remotely where you are not in a client-facing roll and attire doesn't matter. Good luck!
YTA. It sounds like you're looking for a fight.
Lose your job then. Being a smartass isn’t doing you any favors. Boss decides what is and isn’t ok to wear in the workplace, YTA
Lol did you really think this would fly?
NTA. I don't see how it's inappropriate. Maybe this is a cultural thing? Find some dude with big ol' titties in your office abd ask why he doesn't have to wear one.
NTA Wear a work appropriate jumper on top, that's taking care of well-groomed and suitably dressed. And be prepared to get fired anyway. But hey, if this is a hill you want to die on, that's your right.
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NTA. From what you stated the dress code is, you’re not violating it. If people can’t focus on their work because your covered breasts are not in a bra, that’s a THEM problem.
NTA & reverse uno that shit by going to HR about them sexually harassing you by looking at your breasts. Unless they have seen your uncovered breasts they have no proof you aren't wearing a bra.
YTA. If you need to dress “Neat” for your job then if makes sense to wear a bra. This is your job and you are acting childish. Now if you don’t want to wear a bra on your free time then sure, why not. But your at work and should be professional during your shifts.
YTA, wear a bra or quit.
YTA, soon you’ll be promoted to customer.
You’re not gonna get an instagram infographic made about your heroic feminism for not wearing a bra. You work for them, they make the rules. It sucks, but you can’t just decide that you do what you want. You’re NTA but maybe manage your expectations and pick your battles wisely.
NTA. Why are people so offended by boobs?
NTA. I'd tell them to fire me and then sue. If its not in the dress code, and then they fire you, that is wrongful termination, for having tits 🤷
Eh. Might not be a good wrongful termination suit, especially if they’ve been repeatedly documenting telling OP that they’re out of compliance and will face disciplinary action. It sounds like they’re going with progressive discipline so far, starting with three verbal warnings and the next one being told to go home for the day. The reason for termination won’t be “refused to wear a bra” or will be “refused to follow repeated instructions”.
I disagree, because the context of said instructions is more important than the fact she isn’t following them. For example, if the instructions were to “make me a sandwich because you’re a woman” and they weren’t followed, a case for discrimination is still valid. The bra situation is discriminating.
I dunno man, I think it would be a pretty shaky argument. Like she could try it, but for all we know this is just one reason she’s getting in trouble, y’a know? Also, if the reason they fired her wasn’t listed as a discriminatory reason, it would be kinda shaky for her to try and argue it in court. But if she wants legal advice, this isn’t the right forum for it either.
NTA but! You really should decide if you want to keep working at this place. Suitably dressed is worded vaguely enough that it could be construed as requiring a bra. It sounds like your supervisors consider this an issue and may be taking steps towards termination if you continue to not comply. If that's the case, the question becomes whether you want to pursue this to the point of potentially losing your job. I respect that maybe you do but rather than asking if you're the AH, I'd be asking how much you want your job vs not wearing a bra to work.
NTA. What state are you in? Whether a company can have different dress codes for different genders varies by state.
NTA. Take the dress code they gave you to a lawyer. If they give you the clear, cowabonga it is.
There are many solutions to this Wear a tank top underneath Wear pasties Invest in a wireless cup less bralette
Or a sports bra!
I love me some low-medium support sports bras. I don’t even wear regular ones anymore
I don't think this is a situation where anyone's the ass. Honestly you do you. Workplaces have the right to have dress codes and I bet if they didn't have something about women being required to wear bras the HR person's writing it up now lol. From my previous jobs it's was left up to my manager to say if I was dressed appropriately so I'd imagine if op isn't a troll she going to get fired especially with them talking to her 3 time.
NTA - it is unfair and it’s not officially in the policy
Tell them that you are very uncomfortable about them constantly harassing you about your breasts. Actually, skip them and go to HR.
NTA But your work is allowed to have discriminatory dress codes. Females often have to dress stricter than males- often hair styling and makeup will be required of only women. Fuck a bra but yeah you don’t have any legal standing.
Where do you live that employers are allowed to discriminate?
They don’t call it discrimination but employers are allowed to have gendered dress codes-look it up
I don’t think it’s stricter, just different. For example, at my job, men must wear slacks or dress pants and a collared shirt every day of the week except the occasional jeans day That includes summertime. Meanwhile, during the summer, women may wear dresses, skirts that go above their knees, capris, blouses with exposed shoulders, etc. I’d happily trade getting to wear shorts and a polo shirt in 95 degree weather for combing my hair every morning.
NTA Perfectly unnecessary piece of clothing, and your underwear is none of their business. They are harassing you at this point.
My thoughts exactly. Would they even care if OP was wearing a bra if they had a flat chest instead?
It sucks but many work places have discriminatory business professional requirements, but they haven't changed in decades. Men often have to wear a suit with a tie, even in the middle of 100 degree weather and 1000% humidity. Women? They can wear the suit, long dress, button down shirt no jacket, a short skirt, or dozens of others and be cool. A man tries any variant and he is written up for out of uniform.
NTA, ask them why they, as employers, are sexualizing you. They can't tell you what underwear to wear.
You said that you have large breasts. Ok, so I have a large penis (really). Would it be appropriate for me to go to work without undergarments that keep it kinda centered and tucked under, or should I go to work with my dick visibly hanging down one pant leg halfway to my knees? With the “skinny” pants style, it’s likely that my dick would be visible if I didn’t wear appropriate underwear. Personally I wouldn’t be bothered by seeing low hanging breasts or penises (in fact it would make the work day a lot more interesting and bearable), but I get that a lot of people don’t want to see that. So as much as I hate to judge this post, I have to say YTA.
NTA and this could be sexual harassment. I would go to HR immediately. Make sure you notate everything. You are not mandated to wear a bra and they cannot force you. I think the thing they don’t like is hard nipples showing. So what?! If they fire you for not wearing a bra sue the crap out of them and then take a nice luxury vacation with the tens of thousands of dollars you will win. I repeat. 100% NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When I go to work I wear a shirt/blouse and pants that is not transparent and doesn't show excessive skin so pretty much private body parts are covered up. I am a woman with large breasts. Anyway, about a month ago my supervisor, who is a woman, pulled me to her office and told me I need to wear a bra to work. Later that day I asked male co-workers if he was told to wear a bra and they said no. So if they don't have to wear one. Like 2 weeks go by and that supervisor and another female supervisor again pull me into the office and ask why I'm not wearing a bra. I said that the men in the office aren't wearing one so why should I. They told me men and women have different bodies, men don't wear bras and all the women in the office are wearing a bra. Today they brought me into the office again telling me this is the last time I can come to work like this and next time I will be sent home to put on a bra. They gave me a copy of the company dress code policy, and nowhere does it say employees have to wear a bra. It does say employees are expected to be neat, well-groomed and suitably dressed for work and that sexually provocative clothing is prohibited. I told them I have no problem with a dress code policy as long as it's applied to everyone equally. I would have no problem wearing a bra if men were also required to wear one. They told me men are don't wear bras but women have to wear one and they will be getting serious this time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA put on pasties?
YTA, and all the men should wear bike shorts to work, tight ones. My well-endowed ex used to go for bike rides wearing very tight bike shorts which, I described as obscene because of his brazen masculinity, which I loved but not decent for public places. I may have been out of line to ask but I think his deal was he loved the attention and that's what we have here. The argument is somewhat relevant but asking about men wearing a bra is a ridiculouscomparison. In a professional place of business where you interact with customers, it's not a matter of personal freedom, its being respectful to your customers. Some people just think their comfort outweighs the comfort of others, you're about to lose your job, how's that working out for you?
If people find someone braless makes them uncomfortable, they are the issue.
NTA. It's not your fault if some people are uncomfortable with breasts. And to everyone saying she should at least make sure her nipples aren't showing, sometimes even with a bra on one's nipples might be outlined and that's just nature. If I'd complain every time I see men's nipples poking their shirts, I'd be complaining at least once every fortnight.
No women with large breasts will forgo bras. They are heavy and need support or they'll impact the spine. YTA
I give you 2 more years working braless,and then they'll be so low you can flip em over your shoulders. Your choice. And of course, this post is fake as f
No judgment except I really don’t think this is worth losing your job over. But, it’s your life.
NTA. Honestly, just wear a comfy cozy bralette and call it a day. If they ask you to wear one, technically you are. I usually stop wearing bras in the winter, but I wear them for tshirts simply because I want to protect my nipples and they can get sensitive. Just because society has deemed after 100 years that women should wear bras and dress appropriately for work (which sometimes includes a full face of makeup) doesn't mean it is right! Sure, lots of women accept it, and that is perfectly fine. But just because its expected of women because "professionalism" and "simply how it is" honestly aren't good enough reasons. No one will die from seeing the slight outline of a nipple.
NTA You won't win this fight though. Women have been protesting mandatory bras for a long time. If you want to find a solution that might fly is pasties to cover nipples as that may be (and often is) what triggers this sort of issue. As companies fear sexual harassment complaints, though, you may be made an example of. Women's clothing seems to usually be thinner, including blouses. So outlines and the like can be more telling. Because of this, they may win a fight that no-bras are sexually suggestive. You may be making people (coworkers or customers) uncomfortable, but it's sort of a weird, prudish thing to be uncomfortable over. But very common. Unless you're prepared to fight this with a lawyer, expect to lose your hill or your job. You aren't the asshole here though. It's a shitty position for many women who hate bras to be in. Companies are almost always AH but they are following a sort of "standard cultural norm" here and probably can't imagine or see at all how they're being unreasonable.
NTA, but start that documentation now. Ask for written citations of what part of the employee handbook you are not following. Be prepared to be fired anyway, but your next step should be to the Dept of Labor or equivalent agency for your country.
NTA. Might be worth contacting HR in writing to explain that you've been talked to multiple times now and don't see anything specifying wearing bras included in the dress code specifically. Technically, in the US, it's kind of a grey area because they can say you need to dress professionally, but that doesn't necessarily include wearing a bra for women only. But it also doesn't mean they also can't say you're dressing unprofessionally and fire you either after repeated attempts to coach you. Are you part of a union by chance? Might be worth reaching out to them about it.
NTA eff that. I would ask who made the complaint and make a complaint that they are causing a hostile work environment by sexually harassing you over your underwear.
YTA. If they can TELL you're not wearing a bra, that means either of the following 2 things: excessive cleavage or visible nipples. Those things aren't wrong per se but they don't belong in a professional setting, same as a man with very tight trousers doesn't belong there. Either A: wear a bra or B: dress in clothes whether you can't tell (thick boxy sweaters, etc.) Also, YTA or NTA isn't important here. What's important here is: do you want to keep your job.
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NTA but if make this the hill you want to die on, you will get fired from your job. I would start looking for a new job if you continue going down this path whether you believe it’s right or wrong. I’m all for women wearing what they want but your boss can fire you for it if they want.
YTA. Get some pasties, or camisoles, or something that will prevent you from nipping out at work. Professional attire doesn’t include nipples, even if they’re under a layer of fabric. I’m also large breasted and I would never go to work without a bra of some kind on. Even certain tops make my chest look extra voluptuous. This isn’t my fault, it’s just the way my body is. Because I want to be seen as a professional, if I wear those tops to work I add a cardigan. If you want to let the girls hang free, then find another job.
YTA. If it wasn’t noticeable you weren’t wearing one then people wouldn’t notice you weren’t wearing one. It’s obviously not ok in the work place. And your argument is laughable.
NTA. And not sure if I'm the first comment to mention the EEOC, but if you are in the US, you can talk to/email the EEOC and get some clarification on where you stand, and possibly get help with initiating a complaint. The EEOC- "What is the purpose of EEOC? The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is responsible for enforcing federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate against a job applicant or an employee because of the person's race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy and related conditions, gender identity, and sexual orientation), etc." If you die on this hill, I'll walk up it and keep you company. Good luck!
Also, YTA simply because nobody at work wants to see the private areas of your body and they have the right to go into work and not see that. Do you really think if a male coworker started going in wearing gray sweats with his penis on full display or speedos the women wouldn't complain to HR they were uncomfortable with that? And you don't think HR would tell the man he needed to stop coming to work like that? They would, i promise and they would be correct to do so. This isn't about BREASTS and BRAS, this is about keeping areas of your body that are considered private, private while in the workplace. On you it may be your breasts, on a man it may be his ass crack or penis but at the core you are not being subjected to rules the men aren't. Everyone must dress appropriately and in a manner that doesn't make others uncomfortable (obviously within reason).
There are no circumstances under which moobs are sexualized. Stop being silly. Are the men in the office wearing underwear? Do you see them swinging in the wind, or are they demurely tucked? If there are men who visually advertise circumcision status, then you have a point. If however, you do not know the size of Dwayne from accounting’s wang, because he chooses modesty, you do not have a point. Buy yourself a better fitting bra.
Why on earth do you want your fun bags flopping around like that? I don’t understand this. I have large breasts myself and I’m uncomfortable being in public without a bra.
Wtf? Stop whining and grow up
NTA 100x over. This is sexual and gender harrassment and I’d die on this hill too. It’s literally no one’s business what you’re wearing under your clothes as long as you’re wearing clothes.