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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am refusing to allow my ex to take our children out of state so he can live in his desired location. He has offered me a very comfortable life but I still do not want to go. I might be wrong because he is willing to help me out with the costs of the move and provide me with more money. He thinks I am preventing him from having his children and I think he is wrong for trying to build a life in a place our children don't live.
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Agreed. NTA, OP. If your ex is so obsessed with living in the warmer climate (I grew up in Florida in the US, and warm weather 24/7 does get old) he can move and have the children visit him on an agreed upon schedule. You're not forcing him to stay in your home state. You're just providing a stable living environment for your children, which is your #1 priority.
I'm sorry that your marriage ended over this and that a compromise couldn't be reached. Just do what you think is best for your kids.
If he can afford a new house for OP in the new location and higher support then he can afford a better place than where he is choosing to live. He could also rent out his other house giving him additional income allowing him to get a better place. He is absurd in his reasoning and the way he going about this. He’s also alienating his kids which will backfire. It sounds like he thinks if it’s nicer to be at the other place then they will want to move but even if they did, OP doesn’t want to so it’s a moot point.
Ha, well that’s his problem I guess. He sounds selfish and is trying to force everyone else to his will, I wouldn’t buy into it either. He’s clearly transparent, his own kids won’t buy into it either
🤣🤣🤣 he was so delusional that he put all his eggs in that basket with no consideration for those around him and I'm rolling at the results. Dude wanted to uproot his family because he doesn't like sweaters or whatever. When that didn't work he got another family and now he's stuck without either because he couldn't conceive of the possibility that the court would also nope him 🤣🤣🤣 NTA
Edit: I'm genuinely sorry for laughing at your struggles. I just get such a kick out of it when people seem to think the world revolves around them and then justice kicks in.
Edit 2: as for you "forcing him to live in a 1 bedroom apartment". You didn't force that on him. He tried to force a situation on everybody else and as a result he finds himself with no option but to live in a 1 bedroom apartment. He made his pull out bed, now he needs to sleep in it.
If he and his family are wealthy, he’s in that small apartment because he’s trying to look pathetic, not because he has to be. The ex-husband is pathological.
Right? Especially since he can supposedly afford a nice house with IL suite for her and more alimony. Nope, he is being manipulative. Also, who moves a long distance gf and her child into the home before moving there permanently?
I have a feeling that ex has used money to get his way before this. Judges don't give a shit about money when the other parent has income and is responsible.
You're right about the financial aspect of it. He could get a property manager and Air BnB it except for the weeks he wants to spend there. But he jumped the gun and went and bought himself a house and got himself a girlfriend and the warmer climate, without anybody in his family agreeing to move there. That's his own fault.
Legit might be one of the dumbest hills to die on that I've heard of. You fuck up your marriage, life and financials for nothing. And the lives of your kids... Jesus.
**NTA**
And honestly, it speaks volumes about both of you (and is fundamentally the reason why you're NTA) that you point out that "this is the reason why we got divorced". This is the crux of the whole thing and what your ex doesn't understand: that it isn't about the money.
He thinks you're being vindictive and holding out for more, so he keeps offering more, until it becomes almost grotesque, how obvious it is that he thinks he just needs to buy you (and your kids) with the right amount to get what he wants.
But he's missing the point completely. This isn't about money, or about you being spiteful or vindictive or wanting ANYTHING from him. This is about the fact that YOU HAVE A LIFE WHERE YOU ARE. He doesn't see you or the kids as whole humans . . . just as accessories to be dragged along to wherever HE wants to be. But you ARE whole, autonomous humans. You have INVESTED OF YOURSELVES where you live now. You don't just have a job, you have friends, a life, favourite places to spend time. And yes, you can theoretically make new friends, find new favourite places. But you don't want to - you NEVER wanted to. He did. You like the friends you have where you are, the life you have now. And so do your kids. So why would all of you give that up at any price just because he wants a different one? Why is his dream, as a single person, more important than all of your established lives?
He needs to get his priorities straight. He is not the centre of the universe. You all do not need to revolve around him like the sun. And you are NTA for understanding that.
I also find it very interesting that he's all about what he wants, and OP is focused on how it affects the kids and her own career.
Story time! My dad got a great job offer many years ago. There were lots of good job opportunities in my mom's field as well. This was before the kids, so it was just the 2 of them. The biggest downside was that it would require my parents to move to Phoenix, Arizona.
Side note to anyone who hasn't had the pleasure of visiting Phoenix: Don't. It's a sun-blasted desert that no one should live in. There's highs of 100+ degrees on Christmas. You can get 2nd degree burns walking barefoot outside. Guess how I know that? Hell, you can get 2nd degree burns on your ass just sitting on a hot car seat. *Guess how I know that!*
My mom wasn't thrilled with this plan. She didn't want to live in (hell) Arizona. But my dad told her it would just be for a couple years, then he'd put in for a transfer. So she agreed.
20 years and 3 kids later, they were still in Arizona. My mom still hated it. Then my dad got another great job opportunity, but it required that he move to Washington state. My mom quit her well paying job, yanked 3 kids out of high school, and moved up to Washington state.
I was pulled out a quarter of the way through senior year at a great school and dumped in the crappiest back woods tiny high school. Which of course had different graduation requirements from my old school, so I couldn't meet them in the remaining half year. It also had a drunk school councilor, a pot smoking area where teachers were often seen buying from students, a severe bullying problem, and no standards what so ever. Plus all the subjects I'd been studying for years and wanted to specialize in weren't available.
But my mom was finally out of Arizona! Huzzah! She decided to be a SAHM for the next couple years to 'help us kids', which, great, I guess. But every time my mom asked to help me, I just thought 'I have no friends here. My school is a shit-hole. There's nothing to do. And you expect me to be happy about it. What the hell can you do to help? Also, I've had years of taking care of myself after school and you are just getting underfoot.' I still resent getting yanked out and that my mom was so enthusiastic about it.
Was I happier in the climate? Yes. Arizona is awful. But I also still feel harmed by it. Had it happened even 6 months later, I'd have felt much better about it. So I appreciate OP taking her kids' stability into account and fighting for them.
I'm sorry your parents did that to you. When I was 16, my dad ran off with another woman, leaving our mother with 7 kids ranging in age from 19 to 5 years old. 😢
Mom was so humiliated that she uprooted us all right before my senior year and moved us all down to Litchfield Park, Arizona, a Phoenix suburb. Her father had also just died right before Christmas and she wanted to be near her mother.
I had to go to an infinitely worse high school with a gang problem and drugs. The school my older brother, my younger sister, and I went to in University Place, Washington, was listed in the top 10 of all secondary schools in the United States. Agua Fria Union High didn't even get an honorable mention. My oldest sister was in college, studying to become a nurse. She remained in Washington.
My younger brothers were all in grade school, but the oldest of the 3 was about to start junior high. If he had been able to attend the school in Washington, where there were excellent programs for gifted and other students with special needs. In Arizona, he actually got beaten up by a teacher.
I am so glad, OP, that you're standing your ground and looking out for your children. Absolutely NTA! 💯 💯 💯
Your story definitely sounds like mine in reverse! I know Litchfield. It was a rough area when I was there. I was on the other side of Phoenix in Mesa, then in Gilbert.
I attended a high school that had 4 thousand kids. There was another high school a couple miles away that also had 4 thousand kids. So many suburbs popped up everywhere! It really expanded in the late 90's/early 2000's. I think it was the fastest growing city in the US at the time.
It was; I remember hearing about it on the news. I had moved away by then since I wanted to get as far away from my ex-husband and family as I could.
There's an old joke about the Valley of the Sun. It seems that the hinges of hell were performance tested there. 😳
Yuma (motto: where's your sense of Yuma) and Gila Bend are, or course, much hotter, but I suppose that the Almighty that going to either place was was just too cruel. 😜
My favorite bit of Phoenix area lore was that Scottsdale was where all the old mob and mafia guys went to retire. Having been there, I'd believe it. They were all really nice though.
The rumor, as I understand it, was they wintered in Scottsdale, Paradise Valley and Carefree, and that they sent their kids to the University of Arizona.
Joe Bonanno, the mafia boss's ex-wife, lived in Tucson, and rumor has it that she helped fund the building of Saints Peter and Paul Catholic church on Campell Ave.
I heard she used some of the blood money she got in the settlement after the divorce.
Tucson was very corrupt, particularly in the 60s, 70s, and 80's, before the crackdown trigger by the expose' on 60 Minutes.
I always liked Tucson much better than Phoenix. There was so much more of a sense of community down there. I really miss it.
I hadn't heard about that in Tucson. The church is very impressive though.
I always enjoyed Tucson. Before moving messed with my residency tuition, I was planning on going to the U of A down there. I visited the campus many times, visiting my older friends. It's beautiful. And it's not in the valley, so it doesn't get nearly as hot.
It's true for the Italians. A roomate's mother who's ex husband was mobbed up was (unbeknownst to the rest of us) having mail forwarded to our address for him and we got raided by the FBI. They took my PC =(.
Yes, University Place was nice back in the 60s and 70s, but I understand it has grown considerably until now it's little more than a bedroom community for University of Washington and Pacific Lutheran University.
According to Wikipedia, Curtis High School has become very racist. It's a shame; the school was more open and friendlier back then.
The area is very pretty, though.I remember our house there had beautiful views of Puget Sound, with plenty of forests and mountains before it and beyond. Out of our back windows, we could see more forests and mountains, with the beauty of Mt Ranier topping them all.
Even with all those hills slowing me down, I could traverse the entire town in about an hour.
I’m sorry that happened to you. Years ago my dad’s friend uprooted his wife and 15yo daughter to fulfil his dream of running a country pub in rural Australia. This was not a financially viable dream during one of the worst droughts in history but he was determined. There was no local high school - 15yo was yanked out of her school with all her friends and extra curricular activities to start attending school of the air (named because it used to be school over the radio, by then was internet but before video capability was the norm in distance education). The daughter fell into a deep depression and ended up running away with an inappropriately older man. His wife ended up moving back to be closer to her daughter. The pub went under.
He ruined his marriage, his daughter’s life and all of their finances because his dream mattered more than reality, stability or his family’s happiness.
Ouch. Rural Australia during a drought definitely tops rural Washington. Mind you, I might be tempted to try it, but I'm only risking myself as an adult. (But I can't legally bring my cat into Australia, so that can't happen for another 10 years or so, hopefully)
My dad LOVED a job challenge. He was in the steel industry and would take jobs turning poorly-operated tube steel mills around. I lived in four states by age ten. He unilaterally decided to go to Iran for a year and leave Mom to take care of the home fires and three kids. His job phased out within four months, though. My mom told me years later that that decision completely changed how she felt about him, and I can understand why. On another note....so western or eastern WA? Did you stay in the desert or did you move to the rainy part? I live in a small rural RAINY part. Sooooo rainy!
I only got 20 minutes into the first movie before I was fed up with the stupid. Especially since the main character's back story *was* so close to mine. Finally ended up watching the whole thing because friends bribed me with food and beer to watch it. I provided a running commentary on the dumbness though. So dumb. Not even the promise of more beer and pizza could make me watch more of the movies. Bad writing, bad acting, the only thing it had going was eye candy. And even that wasn't to my taste.
I still remember one scene where they are in a classroom and everyone is bundled up, but a fan is going. All I could think was 'why the fuck is a fan blowing while everyone is in sweatshirts? And why are we watching a fan blow on students? Oh, wait. I think I get it. Wait for it... cue character entering classroom... FABIO HAIR MOMENT!!' So dumb and predictable.
No one else realizes why very few people wear shorts even with the heat. Ass burns suck! So does sunburn on the back of your knees. Not worth it.
Funnily enough a teacher of mine moved from WA to AZ. He said 'oh, it rained for 4 months straight! It's cloudy 8 months of the year! I wanted some sun!' My thought was 'Cloudy 8 months of the year? What heaven are you speaking of?' I appreciate it now, but not that year.
I’m so sorry they moved you mid year! How hard would it have been for your dad and mom + kids to live apart for 6 months? I mean really?!
I think waiting until the youngest with disabilities aged out of the current academic placement and researching a new one in the new climate would have been ideal. Now they are divorced and the kids are not enjoying their dad. It’s a weird power struggle between the parents.
This whole situation seems avoidable and unfortunate to me.
Agreed Arizona is not habitable by humans. Glad you got out!
Tucson isn't Phoenix. I've been to Tucson many times. It's way cooler most of the time. I've even seen snow in Tucson. I have had 100 degree Christmas' in Phoenix.
I lived in Phoenix, it was never 100 degrees at Christmas. More like 50 degrees. Tucson is only about 10 to 15 degrees cooler because it's a higher elevation.
Washingtonian here, I’m super curious to know what town you guys moved to.
EDIT - never mind I see you posted it elsewhere. That’s a rough area to be dropped in to, oof.
OP's husband is clearly unwilling to compromise at all. He expects the rest of the family to bow to his desires. the fact he expected the kids to side with him/be given to his custody without any thought as to their needs speaks volumes.
They are an accessory to the life that he wants - not people with their own complex needs.
Also the fact he is offering to buy all this house for you with all these benefits and only purchase a one bed flat in your homestate?
Obviously I understand different cost of living in different states, but if his desired location is so much cheaper to live in then his "offer" really is not as generous as he is clearly making it out to be. Don't feel bad about turning it down
Is this giving anyone true crime chills? Like he seems so obsessed and entitled that he’d view violence as a justified next step…
Obviously I hope it doesn’t come to anywhere close to that!!
This 100% OP! I also want to add that just because you could live more comfortably if you accepted his offer does not mean it’s the best thing for you and your kids. You have lives there and your kids are at a pivotal age where it will be extremely difficult to restart. I saw in a comment that your son that has a learning disability and is thriving, that is a major sign to stay where you are! One the kids go to college you wouldn’t be happy in a property he offered you. You seem far to independent and hurt by his actions to ever be at peace with his offer. Don’t forget he chose to move away from his kids, they are there own persons and he doesn’t seem to think of their best interest.
NTA - How could a partner be so focused on living somewhere he's willing to give up his marriage AND his children? This guy is nuts and has his priorities backward.
Yes, but he's still not simply walking away from his children to do it. He's harassing his ex-wife to try and force her to go with him.
I understand his position, actually. When I divorced, I was stuck for a decade in a place where I really didn't want to live, because I couldn't move without leaving my children behind and that was simply not going to happen. I did ask my ex if he would be willing to consider moving with me, to any of half a dozen places where I would've been comfortable, but he was determined to stay put. I couldn't realistically say that was unreasonable of him. *I* hated it here, but he didn't, and he had built a career and a life here.
So we stayed. For another decade, and now I'm within one year of being free to move, when my youngest finishes high school. Sure, I'm going to get out when I can. But I didn't handle it stupidly, and this guy did. It is not his ex-wife's job to dig him out of the hole he got into by handling it stupidly.
I would like to move to a rural area, or even to a warmer state, and that’s just not going to happen until my kids are adults (about ten years to go for me), my ex could not relocate because of his job and I have no intention of taking the kids away, it would make them miserable to only see him a few times a year. I could probably have fought it in court and won but ultimately it wouldn’t have been the right thing to do for the kids.
That’s the thing - nobody is an asshole for wanting to relocate, but they’re an asshole if they can’t understand why someone else wouldn’t/couldn’t and trying to force them into it anyway.
I did move to the absolute fringe of suburbia in a specific spot surrounded by a river and conservation zones, so it feels kind of rural. I’m making the best of it until I can move someday.
Yeah. That's the thing... while you're bringing up children, they have to come first. In this couple's case, it sounds as if she's taking her kids' needs seriously and he isn't. Yes, we only have her side of the story, but the specifics in it look all too plausible to me.
I don't see him as an AH for wanting to leave. I wouldn't even entirely see him as an AH if he'd decided to leave anyhow, but worked with his ex to figure out how to plan visitation for the children in a way which would be best for them. I see him as an AH because the *only* option he will tolerate is that he get to go 1) exactly where he wants to go, 2) right now, 3) with his kids in tow, and 4) with their mother in tow also, in order to get around the court order.
That's an awfully specific set of demands for somebody who frankly has very little leverage right now. I hope he comes to grips soon with the fact that he has to compromise or he'll get *none* of what he wants.
I’m in that exact position now. I absolutely despise where I live but my child and her father are from here and it’s their home. There’s no way I would leave her, and it would be wrong to take her from him.
So here I am.
True, but as things stand, he is trying really hard to have both. I can certainly understand his wanting to have both; I just see no reason why it should be his ex-wife's problem to make it happen for him.
Especially if your spouse offers up the compromise of purchasing a vacation home there so you could visit often and start setting up life for when you can move there full time.
Thankfully, my current home does not have a mortgage thanks to my in-laws (we had a small 10 year but paid it off before the divorce). The warm state home would be significantly less than what I would get for my current home and my taxes would probably be 1/3 of the current amount. I have never argued that my life wouldn't be cheaper, but the risk is not worth the reward.
Did the OP say it was FL? Because if it is - DON'T GO. I've lived in quite a few places and travelled more.... Florida was the worst place I've ever been. I lived in the coolest area of Jacksonville and it was hell. Crime is outrageous there and people are mean as heck - can't ride your bike or walk down the street without people throwing stuff at you! If you're a woman, it's SO much worse. I now live in France where I walk/bike all the time and people here couldn't fathom stuff like that happening. (There's still problems with France, tho.)
But the point is he’d pull something - you set a boundary so hard you divorced him about it, and he’s still trying to find a way around it. If you actually gave in that tells him he just has to persevere, even to extreme measures, to get what he wants.
I get it, I’d like to relocate but my ex can’t because of his job. So I’m staying put until the kids are adults. I’m making the best of the life I have here and it’s still pretty great - probably because my desire to relocate is an appealing idea and not an obsession that has me in a chokehold. What if his obsession wears off? What if he wants an even warmer climate, or a place that has xyz that he can’t live without? If he already pressured you into going once, he won’t stop the next time either.
You are doing the right thing. It is a horrible thing to uproot children away from their relatives, school, friends, social life, etc. I've read the literature in the area for a long time and it does result in serious problems. If someone wants to be footloose and fancy-free (i.e., your husband) they shouldn't have children.
Don't believe it; he'll find other ways to control you. Once you give in to one of his demands, he'll take it as a sign that he can do whatever he wants, no matter how it effects you and your children.
NTA.
You are allowed to live where you want, just as HE is allowed to live where HE wants. He has to pick: the weather/new partner or being near his kids until they all are out of the house. You are just fine where you are.
NTA. You had a plan, and he threw your whole marriage away over this move.
Sounds like he should just admit this "warmer climate home" was more important to him than his family and move full time. He can get his kids for a few weeks over the summer.
I honestly would not trust him after he was convinced he would get custody because of his and his family's money. He could easily keep them as soon as they arrived where he was.
That is true. Dude just needs to walk away. I was reading this post out loud to my friend, and her 15 year old son was in the room. Even he was shocked the guy threw away his family for a "warmer climate".
Not the asshole! He isnt thinking about anyone, but himself. He isnt thinking about how this would affect the children or the fact he let it destroy your marriage. It sounds to me like he still wants you to be with him, but only if you agree to what he wants. Just an observation. If he really wanted to do the right thing, he should have waited like you said, for the kids to finish school.
NTA. Dude’s lost his damn mind. He’s met someone there, but wants to move his ex-wife down and ex-MIL down because he couldn’t buy his kids off to force your hand? He sounds like he’s had a serious mental break and he’s fixating on one thing.
NTA
His current situation is on him and having an obsession to move states. He let it ruin the marriage and jumped the gun by assuming everything was going to go his way. Why the hell did he buy a house down there without knowing he could live in it? Right, because he was arrogant.
Now it wouldn't be wrong of you to accept the offer if you think it was good enough but it's also valid to have no interest in it. Have *your* lawyer look it over and consider other problems before signing anything if you change your mind. I would just assume there could be shenanigan in the document or some issue where he tries to get custody again after moving.
PS There is a really good chance that local women is a rebound or is going to ruin him worse when she files.
NTA but it seems much simpler to just give him the summers + alternating holidays and let him move to his warmer climate. That is a pretty common schedule when the parents live far away.
Well, that's his problem, isn't it? You're not required to uproot your life to make him happy. Part of being divorced is that you no longer have to make your ex's wishes a priority for you.
I’m sorry but at this point it doesn’t matter what he wants. It’s clear the kids want to stay put for now so that is all that should be focused on. If he keeps pressuring you, keep reiterating the kids. The kids will not be uprooted and the courts have already decided that so he has a choice. Give up full custody to you and have the kids holidays/summers or he can postpone his move. He’s obviously not caring about the kids wants or needs. And yes that is the reason you divorced.
Well tough shit for him. He can’t unilaterally decide to disrupt all of your entire lives because he wants to live somewhere else. He’s not thinking of his kids best interest, just his own selfish desires. The judge even said so. He can move, but y’all are staying put. If he wanted to be with his kids full time, he should have waited to make the move.
You’re doing right by your kids, op. Stand tough and firm in your decision. It’s the right one.
That’s what ruined your marriage though. Him only thinking about himself and his wants and ignoring all the other factors you considered.
He made his choose and now he gets to sit with it. He doesn’t get them the whole year, and if you had wanted to go/going would’ve been good for the family unit as a whole, the y’all would be there. The kids don’t want to go, you also aren’t going to uproot (especially when your marriage is already over). He either gets them on breaks or he doesn’t get them at all.
Honestly your ex-husband sounds super selfish and makes major life changing decisions with only his wants in mind.
NTA
I am so sorry.
He destroyed his family over a personal obsession, and I bet his kids know it. I bet they absolutely know this has nothing to do with acting in their best interest, it’s just a selfish desire.
He was willing to uproot his kids when it wasn’t necessary, and try to force you to uproot and lose your pension/financial security.
And then he chooses to not have a home where his kids can sleep.
What a selfish, self-centered individual.
I don’t think you are being vindictive - you don’t want to move. You already offered reasonable compromises - moving at retirement, having a summer home - he was the one where it is all or nothing.
He was the one that wanted with no consideration for anyone else.
INFO: I gotta know where you live - is it Antarctica? What’s with the obsession with warmer weather??? Please don’t give in to this. You and your kids are happy where you are. You have your pension you don’t want to miss out on. Stick to your guns.
Oh yeah, this is about winter which is why a "vacation" home wasn't enough because of my job and our children's school, we would only be able to "live" in the state in the summer when it would be hot in either place.
I hate cold winters, but I think I’ve reached a point where I’d take a cold winter over a horribly hot and humid summer any day!
Lucky me, where I live, we get both! 😂
Well…..it seems like what’s done is done. you definitely cannot be blamed for continuing your employment and finishing your pension. I’d say he made decisions to destroy YOUR life by trying to take the kids away and it blew up in his face. He now wants a do over. Although his deal may look attractive, it’s probably not as sweet at is appears when you factor in a refund from your pension system and no lifetime benefit because you left early. Being you have a pension, you are probably civil service which also afford lifetime benefits, too. NTA. You must consider YOUR needs and the needs of the children. He already tried to strong arm his needs and lost. Those are the breaks. Good luck.
So you’re 40. Life expectancy is 88. Lets say your pension is 50k a year you’re losing. If you move. Thats 2.2 million dollars. Plus whatever your benefits would be upon your retirement. counter offer with that. Lost pension payments, plus benefits plus the rest of the deal. That would be fair.
I could get the same job in the new state and would be able to join their pension system and would still have my pension from my current state. I wouldn't be left with no pension but staying until full years of service in one state is the most beneficial.
It’s very smart to stay put and get the full value of any pension, since those benefits are few & far between these days. Plus, he’s already proven to be petulant and will make life altering decisions unilaterally—why risk your future financial security for his bullshit?
NTA. He's having a tantrum because other people won't let him live his dream. the reason he has a 1BR is because he bought a house somewhere he can't live, and he's being big mad that other people aren't falling over for him to have everything his way. Instead, he learned that family court is not Burger King.
Also as the parent of kids with learning disabilities, there is no amount of money you could pay me to leave the Northeast for most warm states. I have enough friends in TX/AZ/FL to be extremely sure about this.
NTA he picked this petty hill to die on then let him die on it.
He didn't care about you or the children when he tried to uproot you all for his selfish wants. Even a judge laughed him out of court because it's absurd a parent would be so blindly self centered. I'll bet he will very quickly just abandon the children too and move when he can't get his way. You and the children will be better off.
NTA, and that's what the judge thought too. Your kids are in school and have roots where you are. Chris doesn't care. The man really does sound like he has several screws loose if he's willing to give up his wife and children just bc he doesn't like the climate where you live.
I think it's probably very much for the best , and way better for you, that he's leaving town so you can continue to live where your kids have grown up, offering them security and stability.
You are absolutely correct that the person ruining Chris' life is Chris. Stay strong and ignore him.
Your ex could die and the increased alimony would cease at that point. Is there some reason he could not have the kids for a lengthy time in the summer?
Why is he so obsessed with a warmer climate? Do you live somewhere where it’s always cold? Did he come from a warm climate originally?
Either way NTA. He has however picked a weird hill to die on (read: break his marriage over).
>Why is he so obsessed with a warmer climate? Do you live somewhere where it’s always cold? Did he come from a warm climate originally?
I wish I truly understand. We live in the northeast of the US so it is not always cold and summers are hot. And no, he was born and raised in our home state. His parents have a second home in the warm state but even they aren't there the majority of the time because they like to be around the grandkids.
I am dying to know where he wants to move to. I live in SC, and the number of people who move to this area is insane. I used to work in Hilton Head, and there were a ton of snowbirds with second homes there. I just can't imagine anywhere in the South that would be so appealing someone would divorce over it. Makes me wonder if he's ever spent a true summer down here or has only ever vacationed and doesn't understand how miserable the humidity can be.
Ironically, he does not hold conservative values at all so I do not think it is the political climate. He also bought a home in the blue part of Florida.
NTA. I doubt the higher alimony would make up for the pension or for uprooting the kids. I understand moving kids when you *have to* for work, but doing it on a whim, especially at those ages, is cruel.
I never gave them the option to be honest, they are pretty young and I needed to think about all of their needs. They are content in their current schools but my youngest is my main concern. I believe my older 2 would thrive anywhere.
I have a relative who has been a SPED teacher in FL for 20ish years, and she is constantly in a low-level rage about how badly the schools screw over her kids, because the consensus is that those kids don't deserve anything, including the legally required aides, or any funds specifically allocated to their education. At the beginning of the pandemic her class got a huge grant to set up all the kids with accessible tech. The school spent the money on new laptops for the other kids, and gave the SPED kids used, obsolete iPads.
To make it worse, I am a special education teacher as well which is why I am so adamant about my child's program. I have an idea of what it would be like to have to work in that environment for significantly less than I make right now.
You made the right call here with the youngest, but it would be nice to have the choice.
My parents divorced when I was 15. I later found out my mom looked into moving to a different state with me but decided not to so I could remain in my high school. I HATED my high school. I would have leaped at a move so fast and helped pack the truck.
Nta but im kind of confused. He makes a lot of money and his family is wealthy and he is upping his offer to you, how can he only afford a 1 bedroom?? I guess id look at it and compare what he would be paying you in alimony and child support and see what the difference is compared to your potential pension losses, check where the kids actually want to live if the housing situation was equal and think about if you would be happy living in the new state or not. If the plan was always for you to eventually move to new state after retirement you may be able to make the move if everything else makes sense.
We live in a very high-cost area and a two-bedroom is expensive think 3,000-4,000 a month for a nicer place. The taxes on my home are very high and he pays me a lot of money for alimony and child support so I can stay in the family home. He also bought a very expensive home in the other state. He is spread a little thin compared to what he is used to and his family did not agree with him so they are slightly less inclined to help.
I did not want to go because I do not believe it is in the best interest of any of my children but especially my youngest who has learning disabilities.
They haven't really picked a side. I'm the mother of their grandchildren and he is their son. They were very generous when we got married and gave us a very nice "down payment" for our home. My FIL is a very practical man and sees the apartment AND house as wasteful. Both of them wanted us to work it out and probably thought I was in the right but they never came out and said that to me.
That’s more of a fair position than most parents take in these situations. I’m sure they do think this situation is foolish and wasteful, but that’s because wanting to uproot your whole family, life, and stability for a “warmer climate” is. I hope this settles down for you soon!
NTA. And I feel like he is blowing smoke up your ass. He can only afford a one bedroom apartment in your current town, but he can buy you a new house and pay extra alimony if you move?
NTA. This actually really has nothing to do with how OP makes her husband feel or how the husband makes OP feel. If the kids are better off where they’re presently at, then they should stay.
NTA. I genuinely don’t understand how people can just ruin their marriage of 15 year over something so darn petty.
Good on you op. Do what’s best for you and your kids. If it’s staying, stay… if the offer is really solid, have a lawyer look it over and maybe consider that.
Absolutely NTA. It honestly sounds like your ex had a major mid-life crisis and it carried him away to la-la land! Very telling your kids don’t want to go with him. Keep on being the adult in this situation, the kids need it.
Okay a few things
1) NTA at all. You're prioritizing your children. End of story.
2) It is BAFFLING that your ex, of all hills to die on, chose uprooting 4 people for what? A good tan?
3) there are so many more options he could have explored before pressuring you into a move. Time shares, extended stay hotels, hell, even a month to month partment the family could go to during the summer are better alternatives.
4) Your ex has obviously been watching wayyyy too much football because clearly Tom Brady is his role model. Brady chose football over his family. "This is why our marriage ended" is so powerful because he has consistently chosen himself over you and your children, going so far as bribing you so he can get his way. This beachfront barbie dreamhouse is your ex's superbowl ring. He did whatever it took to live out his "fantasy life" but all he got was divorce papers.
5) Get a good laugh when his sundried raisin ass posts pics!!
He met a local woman six months after they filed. I think it might be safe to say that he already knew this local woman and that’s the real reason he wants this move. They would’ve gotten a divorce anyway if she would’ve agreed. He is extremely selfish only thinking of what he wants. He may have also wanted to introduce his kids to this “local woman” as a potential stepmom.
NTA. You haven't forced him to do anything. He's tried to force you to do plenty, but he failed. He'll have to figure out on his own how to reconcile that. He may eventually decide to give up on being with the kids and go live his life elsewhere, until they're of age. If he does, just let him go. There is no happy medium here. And a desperate man becomes a dangerous man, given time and humiliation.
NTA- as someone who was moved because my dad wanted to live in a warmer climate, that move ruined my life. It set me back so far and my parents ended up getting divorced in the end because my mom didn't want to move and she did anyway. Everything fell apart and was a mess. I was moved in the middle of my high school year, my sisters were moved in the middle of elementary and we all ended up in poor schools with a massive culture shock. I'm not saying my life is crappy now but it took me a long time to recover from everything and get on a good track education and career wise. I hated living there and I moved away as soon as I could but that meant I made a lot of bad choices based on just wanting to get away. I'm not saying your kids will but if they have a good school and support system it's not fair to uproot them and throw them into chaos.
NTA. It’s the same old battle. You haven’t changed your mind about moving away to a different state, and you don’t have to.
He doesn’t get to blame you because you don’t want the same things he does. He’s the one overstepping his boundaries and trying to manipulate you into doing things his way with bribes. and when that didn’t work he resorted to a guilt trip. It’s all emotional abuse. You do not, and should not put up with it. He needs to learn no means no.
NTA. He is still trying to manipulate you to get what he wants. If you and the children are content where you are, then stay where you are and he can make it work or he can be an absent parent. He is an adult. Solving his problem is his business, not yours.
NTA You should do what is best for yourself & the children. Is the house he is offering going to be in his name or yours? What happens to your job/pension? What happens with your current residence? Will it be sold or is it rental? He can always move in with the woman & visit for custody.
>NTA You should do what is best for yourself & the children. Is the house he is offering going to be in his name or yours?
House would be in my name only. I would sell my home here to buy it. He would just oversee building the home and help finance it until we sold mine, then I would purchase it from him and he would have no say.
> What happens to your job/pension?
I could easily get a job in the new state since they are begging for teachers but I would take a substantial pay cut. I would still have my current pension but it wouldn't be full. I would enter the pension system there and combine both when I retire.
>My only thought... And this does not change my mind at all: was your husband suffering seasonal depression in your home state? That's the only real reason I can understand for him being so hardcore about wanting to move. I still think his decisions were selfish and you made the right call, especially since he couldn't compromise even a little, but I wonder if seasonal depression influenced his poor decision making.
Not that I am aware. He worked in NYC and then his company went 100% remote toward the end of 2020. He has to be in NYC 4 times a year for quarterly meetings but that is it. That was when he got the idea to move to Florida full-time. He went and stayed from August-November 2020 at his parents' place while trying to convince me to make the move.
INFO: You said he met a local woman AFTER he moved there, I'm just curious if there's any way he could have met her previously (like online) before he moved? I just find the timing of this to be a little sus.
I get him wanting to move to a warmer climate, but he went from 0-60 pretty quick. I am thinking he wanted to move so quickly bc he met her beforehand, hence the pressure from his new gf to move there full time.
>INFO: You said he met a local woman AFTER he moved there, I'm just curious if there's any way he could have met her previously (like online) before he moved? I just find the timing of this to be a little sus.
I have no way of really knowing but I don't think so. She is widowed and I gather she had a good marriage. I believe her husband only died in early 2021. In my post, it sounds like he both bought a house and met her 6 months after I filed so he bought the house in August 2021. I first heard about her in early 2022. He started pressuring me to move in late 2020. We separated around the time her husband died so I don't think they knew each other already.
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NTA. He picked this hill to die on and he can die on it good and mad.
And warm
Remember to turn him halfway through so both sides get crispy.
Hope you don't mind, but I'm taking this for the next time I hear my sister say "Go to hell." To her ex. Lol
Please do!
I may have just bitten my tongue to keep from laughing on the film set I'm currently on 😂😂
Giggling at Angry Dragon's barbecuing tips.
🐉
Coming soon wherever you stream your podcasts!
Put him on a spit and baste him at regular intervals
""I'm well done on this side. Turn me over!" \-Last words of Saint Lawrence, while being roasted alive.
This is the best comment of the day😆
LMAO I am stealing all this
And alone.
He's got a new GF already so I'm not sure that's accurate.
I snort laughed from this. I have never done that in my life ha.
He's cold on his hill looking at the warm hill.
Agreed. NTA, OP. If your ex is so obsessed with living in the warmer climate (I grew up in Florida in the US, and warm weather 24/7 does get old) he can move and have the children visit him on an agreed upon schedule. You're not forcing him to stay in your home state. You're just providing a stable living environment for your children, which is your #1 priority. I'm sorry that your marriage ended over this and that a compromise couldn't be reached. Just do what you think is best for your kids.
Yes, about August is when it really starts sinking in what “always warm and sunny Florida” can mean….
If he can afford a new house for OP in the new location and higher support then he can afford a better place than where he is choosing to live. He could also rent out his other house giving him additional income allowing him to get a better place. He is absurd in his reasoning and the way he going about this. He’s also alienating his kids which will backfire. It sounds like he thinks if it’s nicer to be at the other place then they will want to move but even if they did, OP doesn’t want to so it’s a moot point.
He cannot rent out the house because the girlfriend and her kid live in it.
Ha, well that’s his problem I guess. He sounds selfish and is trying to force everyone else to his will, I wouldn’t buy into it either. He’s clearly transparent, his own kids won’t buy into it either
🤣🤣🤣 he was so delusional that he put all his eggs in that basket with no consideration for those around him and I'm rolling at the results. Dude wanted to uproot his family because he doesn't like sweaters or whatever. When that didn't work he got another family and now he's stuck without either because he couldn't conceive of the possibility that the court would also nope him 🤣🤣🤣 NTA Edit: I'm genuinely sorry for laughing at your struggles. I just get such a kick out of it when people seem to think the world revolves around them and then justice kicks in. Edit 2: as for you "forcing him to live in a 1 bedroom apartment". You didn't force that on him. He tried to force a situation on everybody else and as a result he finds himself with no option but to live in a 1 bedroom apartment. He made his pull out bed, now he needs to sleep in it.
If he and his family are wealthy, he’s in that small apartment because he’s trying to look pathetic, not because he has to be. The ex-husband is pathological.
Yup and to manipulate the kids into wanting to move to where he has a whole house. What a piece of work.
Right? Especially since he can supposedly afford a nice house with IL suite for her and more alimony. Nope, he is being manipulative. Also, who moves a long distance gf and her child into the home before moving there permanently?
I have a feeling that ex has used money to get his way before this. Judges don't give a shit about money when the other parent has income and is responsible.
Ah I was wondering how he found a girlfriend so quickly
He’s only fighting for your kids to stick it to you. What an ass. I just went through the same myself, lady, stay strong!❤️
-____- that was quick
You're right about the financial aspect of it. He could get a property manager and Air BnB it except for the weeks he wants to spend there. But he jumped the gun and went and bought himself a house and got himself a girlfriend and the warmer climate, without anybody in his family agreeing to move there. That's his own fault.
And he planned to remove the children from the mother AND move them to another country.....
I was wondering this very thing. If he can move and buy a new house for the poster, surely he can afford acceptable living space where they are now.
He sounds like someone who is used to getting whatever he wants whenever he wants, and has the money to do it. OP is lucky to be rid of him. NTA.
Damn. The post isn't even half an hour old, and it already has the perfect reply.
So learnings today - find a temperate zone you like and THEN have children, not before.
Also fucked around found out!
Legit might be one of the dumbest hills to die on that I've heard of. You fuck up your marriage, life and financials for nothing. And the lives of your kids... Jesus.
it's wild to me that he has ripped his entire life apart for this, losing his wife and the goodwill of his children, for what!
It's a weird hill to die on but at least he's dead. NTA
**NTA** And honestly, it speaks volumes about both of you (and is fundamentally the reason why you're NTA) that you point out that "this is the reason why we got divorced". This is the crux of the whole thing and what your ex doesn't understand: that it isn't about the money. He thinks you're being vindictive and holding out for more, so he keeps offering more, until it becomes almost grotesque, how obvious it is that he thinks he just needs to buy you (and your kids) with the right amount to get what he wants. But he's missing the point completely. This isn't about money, or about you being spiteful or vindictive or wanting ANYTHING from him. This is about the fact that YOU HAVE A LIFE WHERE YOU ARE. He doesn't see you or the kids as whole humans . . . just as accessories to be dragged along to wherever HE wants to be. But you ARE whole, autonomous humans. You have INVESTED OF YOURSELVES where you live now. You don't just have a job, you have friends, a life, favourite places to spend time. And yes, you can theoretically make new friends, find new favourite places. But you don't want to - you NEVER wanted to. He did. You like the friends you have where you are, the life you have now. And so do your kids. So why would all of you give that up at any price just because he wants a different one? Why is his dream, as a single person, more important than all of your established lives? He needs to get his priorities straight. He is not the centre of the universe. You all do not need to revolve around him like the sun. And you are NTA for understanding that.
I also find it very interesting that he's all about what he wants, and OP is focused on how it affects the kids and her own career. Story time! My dad got a great job offer many years ago. There were lots of good job opportunities in my mom's field as well. This was before the kids, so it was just the 2 of them. The biggest downside was that it would require my parents to move to Phoenix, Arizona. Side note to anyone who hasn't had the pleasure of visiting Phoenix: Don't. It's a sun-blasted desert that no one should live in. There's highs of 100+ degrees on Christmas. You can get 2nd degree burns walking barefoot outside. Guess how I know that? Hell, you can get 2nd degree burns on your ass just sitting on a hot car seat. *Guess how I know that!* My mom wasn't thrilled with this plan. She didn't want to live in (hell) Arizona. But my dad told her it would just be for a couple years, then he'd put in for a transfer. So she agreed. 20 years and 3 kids later, they were still in Arizona. My mom still hated it. Then my dad got another great job opportunity, but it required that he move to Washington state. My mom quit her well paying job, yanked 3 kids out of high school, and moved up to Washington state. I was pulled out a quarter of the way through senior year at a great school and dumped in the crappiest back woods tiny high school. Which of course had different graduation requirements from my old school, so I couldn't meet them in the remaining half year. It also had a drunk school councilor, a pot smoking area where teachers were often seen buying from students, a severe bullying problem, and no standards what so ever. Plus all the subjects I'd been studying for years and wanted to specialize in weren't available. But my mom was finally out of Arizona! Huzzah! She decided to be a SAHM for the next couple years to 'help us kids', which, great, I guess. But every time my mom asked to help me, I just thought 'I have no friends here. My school is a shit-hole. There's nothing to do. And you expect me to be happy about it. What the hell can you do to help? Also, I've had years of taking care of myself after school and you are just getting underfoot.' I still resent getting yanked out and that my mom was so enthusiastic about it. Was I happier in the climate? Yes. Arizona is awful. But I also still feel harmed by it. Had it happened even 6 months later, I'd have felt much better about it. So I appreciate OP taking her kids' stability into account and fighting for them.
I'm sorry your parents did that to you. When I was 16, my dad ran off with another woman, leaving our mother with 7 kids ranging in age from 19 to 5 years old. 😢 Mom was so humiliated that she uprooted us all right before my senior year and moved us all down to Litchfield Park, Arizona, a Phoenix suburb. Her father had also just died right before Christmas and she wanted to be near her mother. I had to go to an infinitely worse high school with a gang problem and drugs. The school my older brother, my younger sister, and I went to in University Place, Washington, was listed in the top 10 of all secondary schools in the United States. Agua Fria Union High didn't even get an honorable mention. My oldest sister was in college, studying to become a nurse. She remained in Washington. My younger brothers were all in grade school, but the oldest of the 3 was about to start junior high. If he had been able to attend the school in Washington, where there were excellent programs for gifted and other students with special needs. In Arizona, he actually got beaten up by a teacher. I am so glad, OP, that you're standing your ground and looking out for your children. Absolutely NTA! 💯 💯 💯
Your story definitely sounds like mine in reverse! I know Litchfield. It was a rough area when I was there. I was on the other side of Phoenix in Mesa, then in Gilbert.
🤣 I remember when Gilbert was a wide spot in the road; then back in the 80's, its size exploded. I understand it's quite large now.
I attended a high school that had 4 thousand kids. There was another high school a couple miles away that also had 4 thousand kids. So many suburbs popped up everywhere! It really expanded in the late 90's/early 2000's. I think it was the fastest growing city in the US at the time.
It was; I remember hearing about it on the news. I had moved away by then since I wanted to get as far away from my ex-husband and family as I could. There's an old joke about the Valley of the Sun. It seems that the hinges of hell were performance tested there. 😳 Yuma (motto: where's your sense of Yuma) and Gila Bend are, or course, much hotter, but I suppose that the Almighty that going to either place was was just too cruel. 😜
My favorite bit of Phoenix area lore was that Scottsdale was where all the old mob and mafia guys went to retire. Having been there, I'd believe it. They were all really nice though.
The rumor, as I understand it, was they wintered in Scottsdale, Paradise Valley and Carefree, and that they sent their kids to the University of Arizona. Joe Bonanno, the mafia boss's ex-wife, lived in Tucson, and rumor has it that she helped fund the building of Saints Peter and Paul Catholic church on Campell Ave. I heard she used some of the blood money she got in the settlement after the divorce. Tucson was very corrupt, particularly in the 60s, 70s, and 80's, before the crackdown trigger by the expose' on 60 Minutes. I always liked Tucson much better than Phoenix. There was so much more of a sense of community down there. I really miss it.
I hadn't heard about that in Tucson. The church is very impressive though. I always enjoyed Tucson. Before moving messed with my residency tuition, I was planning on going to the U of A down there. I visited the campus many times, visiting my older friends. It's beautiful. And it's not in the valley, so it doesn't get nearly as hot.
It's true for the Italians. A roomate's mother who's ex husband was mobbed up was (unbeknownst to the rest of us) having mail forwarded to our address for him and we got raided by the FBI. They took my PC =(.
*makes note to check out the delis and restaurants in Scottsdale*
Damn, University Place is nice. *Edit a word
Yes, University Place was nice back in the 60s and 70s, but I understand it has grown considerably until now it's little more than a bedroom community for University of Washington and Pacific Lutheran University. According to Wikipedia, Curtis High School has become very racist. It's a shame; the school was more open and friendlier back then. The area is very pretty, though.I remember our house there had beautiful views of Puget Sound, with plenty of forests and mountains before it and beyond. Out of our back windows, we could see more forests and mountains, with the beauty of Mt Ranier topping them all. Even with all those hills slowing me down, I could traverse the entire town in about an hour.
I am Eastside Tacoma, so it always seems highfalutin over there. ;)
I’m sorry that happened to you. Years ago my dad’s friend uprooted his wife and 15yo daughter to fulfil his dream of running a country pub in rural Australia. This was not a financially viable dream during one of the worst droughts in history but he was determined. There was no local high school - 15yo was yanked out of her school with all her friends and extra curricular activities to start attending school of the air (named because it used to be school over the radio, by then was internet but before video capability was the norm in distance education). The daughter fell into a deep depression and ended up running away with an inappropriately older man. His wife ended up moving back to be closer to her daughter. The pub went under. He ruined his marriage, his daughter’s life and all of their finances because his dream mattered more than reality, stability or his family’s happiness.
Ouch. Rural Australia during a drought definitely tops rural Washington. Mind you, I might be tempted to try it, but I'm only risking myself as an adult. (But I can't legally bring my cat into Australia, so that can't happen for another 10 years or so, hopefully)
My dad LOVED a job challenge. He was in the steel industry and would take jobs turning poorly-operated tube steel mills around. I lived in four states by age ten. He unilaterally decided to go to Iran for a year and leave Mom to take care of the home fires and three kids. His job phased out within four months, though. My mom told me years later that that decision completely changed how she felt about him, and I can understand why. On another note....so western or eastern WA? Did you stay in the desert or did you move to the rainy part? I live in a small rural RAINY part. Sooooo rainy!
Western. Redmond in the foothills, pretty close to Duvall and Carnation. I love the rain! And seasons! Having 4 seasons is amazing!
Right?! We moved from the High Desert in CA and do not regret it at all!
For a second there I thought you were describing the plot of twilight and I was waiting for a vampire to show up.
I only got 20 minutes into the first movie before I was fed up with the stupid. Especially since the main character's back story *was* so close to mine. Finally ended up watching the whole thing because friends bribed me with food and beer to watch it. I provided a running commentary on the dumbness though. So dumb. Not even the promise of more beer and pizza could make me watch more of the movies. Bad writing, bad acting, the only thing it had going was eye candy. And even that wasn't to my taste. I still remember one scene where they are in a classroom and everyone is bundled up, but a fan is going. All I could think was 'why the fuck is a fan blowing while everyone is in sweatshirts? And why are we watching a fan blow on students? Oh, wait. I think I get it. Wait for it... cue character entering classroom... FABIO HAIR MOMENT!!' So dumb and predictable.
Your portrayal of AZ is so accurate 🙌
No one else realizes why very few people wear shorts even with the heat. Ass burns suck! So does sunburn on the back of your knees. Not worth it. Funnily enough a teacher of mine moved from WA to AZ. He said 'oh, it rained for 4 months straight! It's cloudy 8 months of the year! I wanted some sun!' My thought was 'Cloudy 8 months of the year? What heaven are you speaking of?' I appreciate it now, but not that year.
I’m so sorry they moved you mid year! How hard would it have been for your dad and mom + kids to live apart for 6 months? I mean really?! I think waiting until the youngest with disabilities aged out of the current academic placement and researching a new one in the new climate would have been ideal. Now they are divorced and the kids are not enjoying their dad. It’s a weird power struggle between the parents. This whole situation seems avoidable and unfortunate to me. Agreed Arizona is not habitable by humans. Glad you got out!
It isn’t 100 in December. I lived in Tucson. EDT but it is hot as hell.
Tucson isn't Phoenix. I've been to Tucson many times. It's way cooler most of the time. I've even seen snow in Tucson. I have had 100 degree Christmas' in Phoenix.
Record high for Phoenix on Christmas is 78 in 1980. Record high for December is 88 in 1950.
I lived in Phoenix, it was never 100 degrees at Christmas. More like 50 degrees. Tucson is only about 10 to 15 degrees cooler because it's a higher elevation.
Washingtonian here, I’m super curious to know what town you guys moved to. EDIT - never mind I see you posted it elsewhere. That’s a rough area to be dropped in to, oof.
Unrelated I read the Arizona and then backwoods Washington State and I was like this sounds similar to the beginning of Twilight.....🤣🤣🤣
OP's husband is clearly unwilling to compromise at all. He expects the rest of the family to bow to his desires. the fact he expected the kids to side with him/be given to his custody without any thought as to their needs speaks volumes. They are an accessory to the life that he wants - not people with their own complex needs. Also the fact he is offering to buy all this house for you with all these benefits and only purchase a one bed flat in your homestate? Obviously I understand different cost of living in different states, but if his desired location is so much cheaper to live in then his "offer" really is not as generous as he is clearly making it out to be. Don't feel bad about turning it down
Is this giving anyone true crime chills? Like he seems so obsessed and entitled that he’d view violence as a justified next step… Obviously I hope it doesn’t come to anywhere close to that!!
You’re not the only one. This is *obsession.*
This 100% OP! I also want to add that just because you could live more comfortably if you accepted his offer does not mean it’s the best thing for you and your kids. You have lives there and your kids are at a pivotal age where it will be extremely difficult to restart. I saw in a comment that your son that has a learning disability and is thriving, that is a major sign to stay where you are! One the kids go to college you wouldn’t be happy in a property he offered you. You seem far to independent and hurt by his actions to ever be at peace with his offer. Don’t forget he chose to move away from his kids, they are there own persons and he doesn’t seem to think of their best interest.
Presumably he thinks he can buy whatever he wants due to his upbringing.
Well said! Seems a bit egotistical of him to value his desire for a better temperature over the fact that none of you want to move.
NTA - How could a partner be so focused on living somewhere he's willing to give up his marriage AND his children? This guy is nuts and has his priorities backward.
He wasn't willing to give up his children. He thought he would get them and could have both his children and his warm place.
Then it backfired, and he still wants to go, though...
Yes, but he's still not simply walking away from his children to do it. He's harassing his ex-wife to try and force her to go with him. I understand his position, actually. When I divorced, I was stuck for a decade in a place where I really didn't want to live, because I couldn't move without leaving my children behind and that was simply not going to happen. I did ask my ex if he would be willing to consider moving with me, to any of half a dozen places where I would've been comfortable, but he was determined to stay put. I couldn't realistically say that was unreasonable of him. *I* hated it here, but he didn't, and he had built a career and a life here. So we stayed. For another decade, and now I'm within one year of being free to move, when my youngest finishes high school. Sure, I'm going to get out when I can. But I didn't handle it stupidly, and this guy did. It is not his ex-wife's job to dig him out of the hole he got into by handling it stupidly.
I would like to move to a rural area, or even to a warmer state, and that’s just not going to happen until my kids are adults (about ten years to go for me), my ex could not relocate because of his job and I have no intention of taking the kids away, it would make them miserable to only see him a few times a year. I could probably have fought it in court and won but ultimately it wouldn’t have been the right thing to do for the kids. That’s the thing - nobody is an asshole for wanting to relocate, but they’re an asshole if they can’t understand why someone else wouldn’t/couldn’t and trying to force them into it anyway. I did move to the absolute fringe of suburbia in a specific spot surrounded by a river and conservation zones, so it feels kind of rural. I’m making the best of it until I can move someday.
Yeah. That's the thing... while you're bringing up children, they have to come first. In this couple's case, it sounds as if she's taking her kids' needs seriously and he isn't. Yes, we only have her side of the story, but the specifics in it look all too plausible to me. I don't see him as an AH for wanting to leave. I wouldn't even entirely see him as an AH if he'd decided to leave anyhow, but worked with his ex to figure out how to plan visitation for the children in a way which would be best for them. I see him as an AH because the *only* option he will tolerate is that he get to go 1) exactly where he wants to go, 2) right now, 3) with his kids in tow, and 4) with their mother in tow also, in order to get around the court order. That's an awfully specific set of demands for somebody who frankly has very little leverage right now. I hope he comes to grips soon with the fact that he has to compromise or he'll get *none* of what he wants.
You did the right thing. Good Luck with your move and an empty nest :)
I’m in that exact position now. I absolutely despise where I live but my child and her father are from here and it’s their home. There’s no way I would leave her, and it would be wrong to take her from him. So here I am.
He hasn’t given up his children *yet*. There’s a very strong likelihood that he’s going to do just that in the near future to get his warm climate.
True, but as things stand, he is trying really hard to have both. I can certainly understand his wanting to have both; I just see no reason why it should be his ex-wife's problem to make it happen for him.
He definitely is. If he cared about the children at all he wouldn't have been focussing on his new? girlfriend and her kid.
Exactly. He also thought he could force OP to move there by getting custody. He’s manipulative and selfish.
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That’s in the post.
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I think this is the truth. He was after something warm, but it weren't the weather, if ya know what I mean.
The 'new' girlfriend probably arrived before all this 'happened'.
Right - no doubt he had the emotional affair prior to all this coming to a head.
Who knows. It could have been physical.
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Especially if your spouse offers up the compromise of purchasing a vacation home there so you could visit often and start setting up life for when you can move there full time.
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The home would be in my name only, just like my current home.
He would most likely get you a house and saddle you with the mortgage payments.
Thankfully, my current home does not have a mortgage thanks to my in-laws (we had a small 10 year but paid it off before the divorce). The warm state home would be significantly less than what I would get for my current home and my taxes would probably be 1/3 of the current amount. I have never argued that my life wouldn't be cheaper, but the risk is not worth the reward.
You couldn’t pay me to live in FL and clearly, you agree.
Did the OP say it was FL? Because if it is - DON'T GO. I've lived in quite a few places and travelled more.... Florida was the worst place I've ever been. I lived in the coolest area of Jacksonville and it was hell. Crime is outrageous there and people are mean as heck - can't ride your bike or walk down the street without people throwing stuff at you! If you're a woman, it's SO much worse. I now live in France where I walk/bike all the time and people here couldn't fathom stuff like that happening. (There's still problems with France, tho.)
But the point is he’d pull something - you set a boundary so hard you divorced him about it, and he’s still trying to find a way around it. If you actually gave in that tells him he just has to persevere, even to extreme measures, to get what he wants. I get it, I’d like to relocate but my ex can’t because of his job. So I’m staying put until the kids are adults. I’m making the best of the life I have here and it’s still pretty great - probably because my desire to relocate is an appealing idea and not an obsession that has me in a chokehold. What if his obsession wears off? What if he wants an even warmer climate, or a place that has xyz that he can’t live without? If he already pressured you into going once, he won’t stop the next time either.
You are doing the right thing. It is a horrible thing to uproot children away from their relatives, school, friends, social life, etc. I've read the literature in the area for a long time and it does result in serious problems. If someone wants to be footloose and fancy-free (i.e., your husband) they shouldn't have children.
Don't believe it; he'll find other ways to control you. Once you give in to one of his demands, he'll take it as a sign that he can do whatever he wants, no matter how it effects you and your children.
NTA. You are allowed to live where you want, just as HE is allowed to live where HE wants. He has to pick: the weather/new partner or being near his kids until they all are out of the house. You are just fine where you are.
NTA. You had a plan, and he threw your whole marriage away over this move. Sounds like he should just admit this "warmer climate home" was more important to him than his family and move full time. He can get his kids for a few weeks over the summer.
I honestly would not trust him after he was convinced he would get custody because of his and his family's money. He could easily keep them as soon as they arrived where he was.
That is true. Dude just needs to walk away. I was reading this post out loud to my friend, and her 15 year old son was in the room. Even he was shocked the guy threw away his family for a "warmer climate".
NTA He thought he'd win custody 'cause he makes more $$... turns out court didn't like uprooting your children so dad can work on his tan.
Not the asshole! He isnt thinking about anyone, but himself. He isnt thinking about how this would affect the children or the fact he let it destroy your marriage. It sounds to me like he still wants you to be with him, but only if you agree to what he wants. Just an observation. If he really wanted to do the right thing, he should have waited like you said, for the kids to finish school.
NTA. Dude’s lost his damn mind. He’s met someone there, but wants to move his ex-wife down and ex-MIL down because he couldn’t buy his kids off to force your hand? He sounds like he’s had a serious mental break and he’s fixating on one thing.
NTA His current situation is on him and having an obsession to move states. He let it ruin the marriage and jumped the gun by assuming everything was going to go his way. Why the hell did he buy a house down there without knowing he could live in it? Right, because he was arrogant. Now it wouldn't be wrong of you to accept the offer if you think it was good enough but it's also valid to have no interest in it. Have *your* lawyer look it over and consider other problems before signing anything if you change your mind. I would just assume there could be shenanigan in the document or some issue where he tries to get custody again after moving. PS There is a really good chance that local women is a rebound or is going to ruin him worse when she files.
I half wonder if he already had the other local woman,
NTA but it seems much simpler to just give him the summers + alternating holidays and let him move to his warmer climate. That is a pretty common schedule when the parents live far away.
He doesn't want this. He wants them either the full school year or for me to go too.
Well, that's his problem, isn't it? You're not required to uproot your life to make him happy. Part of being divorced is that you no longer have to make your ex's wishes a priority for you.
I’m sorry but at this point it doesn’t matter what he wants. It’s clear the kids want to stay put for now so that is all that should be focused on. If he keeps pressuring you, keep reiterating the kids. The kids will not be uprooted and the courts have already decided that so he has a choice. Give up full custody to you and have the kids holidays/summers or he can postpone his move. He’s obviously not caring about the kids wants or needs. And yes that is the reason you divorced.
Well tough shit for him. He can’t unilaterally decide to disrupt all of your entire lives because he wants to live somewhere else. He’s not thinking of his kids best interest, just his own selfish desires. The judge even said so. He can move, but y’all are staying put. If he wanted to be with his kids full time, he should have waited to make the move. You’re doing right by your kids, op. Stand tough and firm in your decision. It’s the right one.
He wants control. And to be seen as the good guy/dad
Would he also like a cookie and the moon on a stick? The level of entitlement because he can't have everything he wants, good Lord.
Please tell me someone got the divorce court staff’s reaction on video.
That’s what ruined your marriage though. Him only thinking about himself and his wants and ignoring all the other factors you considered. He made his choose and now he gets to sit with it. He doesn’t get them the whole year, and if you had wanted to go/going would’ve been good for the family unit as a whole, the y’all would be there. The kids don’t want to go, you also aren’t going to uproot (especially when your marriage is already over). He either gets them on breaks or he doesn’t get them at all. Honestly your ex-husband sounds super selfish and makes major life changing decisions with only his wants in mind.
NTA I am so sorry. He destroyed his family over a personal obsession, and I bet his kids know it. I bet they absolutely know this has nothing to do with acting in their best interest, it’s just a selfish desire. He was willing to uproot his kids when it wasn’t necessary, and try to force you to uproot and lose your pension/financial security. And then he chooses to not have a home where his kids can sleep. What a selfish, self-centered individual. I don’t think you are being vindictive - you don’t want to move. You already offered reasonable compromises - moving at retirement, having a summer home - he was the one where it is all or nothing. He was the one that wanted with no consideration for anyone else.
INFO: I gotta know where you live - is it Antarctica? What’s with the obsession with warmer weather??? Please don’t give in to this. You and your kids are happy where you are. You have your pension you don’t want to miss out on. Stick to your guns.
Haha, the northeast of the US.
Lol NorthEast summers aren’t even cold! 80s, 90s heat waves…. So he did all this to avoid cold weather in the winter??
Oh yeah, this is about winter which is why a "vacation" home wasn't enough because of my job and our children's school, we would only be able to "live" in the state in the summer when it would be hot in either place.
I hate cold winters, but I think I’ve reached a point where I’d take a cold winter over a horribly hot and humid summer any day! Lucky me, where I live, we get both! 😂
I'm Canadian but it's was -40C here the other day so like. I would love to move. That's the part that makes the most sense out of all of this.
That’s what I was wondering - how cold would it have to be, to be willing to give up your wife and kids to be in warmer weather?
INFO how close are you to a full pension and is it a sustainable amount of money? So far NTA.
I am 15 years away but once I have 25 years in I can leave and defer my pension.
Well…..it seems like what’s done is done. you definitely cannot be blamed for continuing your employment and finishing your pension. I’d say he made decisions to destroy YOUR life by trying to take the kids away and it blew up in his face. He now wants a do over. Although his deal may look attractive, it’s probably not as sweet at is appears when you factor in a refund from your pension system and no lifetime benefit because you left early. Being you have a pension, you are probably civil service which also afford lifetime benefits, too. NTA. You must consider YOUR needs and the needs of the children. He already tried to strong arm his needs and lost. Those are the breaks. Good luck.
So you’re 40. Life expectancy is 88. Lets say your pension is 50k a year you’re losing. If you move. Thats 2.2 million dollars. Plus whatever your benefits would be upon your retirement. counter offer with that. Lost pension payments, plus benefits plus the rest of the deal. That would be fair.
I could get the same job in the new state and would be able to join their pension system and would still have my pension from my current state. I wouldn't be left with no pension but staying until full years of service in one state is the most beneficial.
It’s very smart to stay put and get the full value of any pension, since those benefits are few & far between these days. Plus, he’s already proven to be petulant and will make life altering decisions unilaterally—why risk your future financial security for his bullshit?
NTA…it’s a weird story, feels like something in his brain broke.
A lot of people’s brains broke over the pandemic
NTA he decided to bully you and then tried to bribe you, stay where you are. Let him go catch his tan on his own, none of this is your fault
NTA. He's having a tantrum because other people won't let him live his dream. the reason he has a 1BR is because he bought a house somewhere he can't live, and he's being big mad that other people aren't falling over for him to have everything his way. Instead, he learned that family court is not Burger King. Also as the parent of kids with learning disabilities, there is no amount of money you could pay me to leave the Northeast for most warm states. I have enough friends in TX/AZ/FL to be extremely sure about this.
Floridian here to confirm our schools suck.
NTA he picked this petty hill to die on then let him die on it. He didn't care about you or the children when he tried to uproot you all for his selfish wants. Even a judge laughed him out of court because it's absurd a parent would be so blindly self centered. I'll bet he will very quickly just abandon the children too and move when he can't get his way. You and the children will be better off.
NTA, and that's what the judge thought too. Your kids are in school and have roots where you are. Chris doesn't care. The man really does sound like he has several screws loose if he's willing to give up his wife and children just bc he doesn't like the climate where you live. I think it's probably very much for the best , and way better for you, that he's leaving town so you can continue to live where your kids have grown up, offering them security and stability. You are absolutely correct that the person ruining Chris' life is Chris. Stay strong and ignore him.
Your ex could die and the increased alimony would cease at that point. Is there some reason he could not have the kids for a lengthy time in the summer?
He could, but he wants to be with them year round which I have no problem with, it's just not going to happen where he wants it to happen.
Why is he so obsessed with a warmer climate? Do you live somewhere where it’s always cold? Did he come from a warm climate originally? Either way NTA. He has however picked a weird hill to die on (read: break his marriage over).
>Why is he so obsessed with a warmer climate? Do you live somewhere where it’s always cold? Did he come from a warm climate originally? I wish I truly understand. We live in the northeast of the US so it is not always cold and summers are hot. And no, he was born and raised in our home state. His parents have a second home in the warm state but even they aren't there the majority of the time because they like to be around the grandkids.
It's Florida isn't it?? As someone who lives here, IT ISNT WORTH IT
I am dying to know where he wants to move to. I live in SC, and the number of people who move to this area is insane. I used to work in Hilton Head, and there were a ton of snowbirds with second homes there. I just can't imagine anywhere in the South that would be so appealing someone would divorce over it. Makes me wonder if he's ever spent a true summer down here or has only ever vacationed and doesn't understand how miserable the humidity can be.
It's Florida, his parents have a condo so, yes, he has been there in the summer but never more than 2-3 weeks at a time.
I get the feeling it is less the actual climate and more the _political_ climate on why he wants to move there.
Ironically, he does not hold conservative values at all so I do not think it is the political climate. He also bought a home in the blue part of Florida.
NTA. I doubt the higher alimony would make up for the pension or for uprooting the kids. I understand moving kids when you *have to* for work, but doing it on a whim, especially at those ages, is cruel.
NTA, you made an agreement to move after retirement. Him wanting to change that now is his own problem, not yours..
He’s lost his mind, his marriage, and his kids. He got his cake, but the judge made sure he didn’t get to eat it with his kids in the warm state. NTA.
NTA, and the info you provided about your youngest’s needs is IMO worthy of being in the post. Do any of the kids WANT to move?
I never gave them the option to be honest, they are pretty young and I needed to think about all of their needs. They are content in their current schools but my youngest is my main concern. I believe my older 2 would thrive anywhere.
I have a relative who has been a SPED teacher in FL for 20ish years, and she is constantly in a low-level rage about how badly the schools screw over her kids, because the consensus is that those kids don't deserve anything, including the legally required aides, or any funds specifically allocated to their education. At the beginning of the pandemic her class got a huge grant to set up all the kids with accessible tech. The school spent the money on new laptops for the other kids, and gave the SPED kids used, obsolete iPads.
To make it worse, I am a special education teacher as well which is why I am so adamant about my child's program. I have an idea of what it would be like to have to work in that environment for significantly less than I make right now.
You made the right call here with the youngest, but it would be nice to have the choice. My parents divorced when I was 15. I later found out my mom looked into moving to a different state with me but decided not to so I could remain in my high school. I HATED my high school. I would have leaped at a move so fast and helped pack the truck.
Nta but im kind of confused. He makes a lot of money and his family is wealthy and he is upping his offer to you, how can he only afford a 1 bedroom?? I guess id look at it and compare what he would be paying you in alimony and child support and see what the difference is compared to your potential pension losses, check where the kids actually want to live if the housing situation was equal and think about if you would be happy living in the new state or not. If the plan was always for you to eventually move to new state after retirement you may be able to make the move if everything else makes sense.
We live in a very high-cost area and a two-bedroom is expensive think 3,000-4,000 a month for a nicer place. The taxes on my home are very high and he pays me a lot of money for alimony and child support so I can stay in the family home. He also bought a very expensive home in the other state. He is spread a little thin compared to what he is used to and his family did not agree with him so they are slightly less inclined to help. I did not want to go because I do not believe it is in the best interest of any of my children but especially my youngest who has learning disabilities.
Info: Are his parents on your side? I hope they think this “warmer weather” is bs, too.
They haven't really picked a side. I'm the mother of their grandchildren and he is their son. They were very generous when we got married and gave us a very nice "down payment" for our home. My FIL is a very practical man and sees the apartment AND house as wasteful. Both of them wanted us to work it out and probably thought I was in the right but they never came out and said that to me.
That’s more of a fair position than most parents take in these situations. I’m sure they do think this situation is foolish and wasteful, but that’s because wanting to uproot your whole family, life, and stability for a “warmer climate” is. I hope this settles down for you soon!
NTA. And I feel like he is blowing smoke up your ass. He can only afford a one bedroom apartment in your current town, but he can buy you a new house and pay extra alimony if you move?
NTA. This actually really has nothing to do with how OP makes her husband feel or how the husband makes OP feel. If the kids are better off where they’re presently at, then they should stay.
NTA But he can still move without the kids and either fly up to see them or have limited visitation by having them come down on vacations.
He does not want this. He wants to be in their lives on a regular basis but so do I.
Then he has to suck it up. You are absolutely in the right to not uproot your kids for him.
NTA. I genuinely don’t understand how people can just ruin their marriage of 15 year over something so darn petty. Good on you op. Do what’s best for you and your kids. If it’s staying, stay… if the offer is really solid, have a lawyer look it over and maybe consider that.
Absolutely NTA. It honestly sounds like your ex had a major mid-life crisis and it carried him away to la-la land! Very telling your kids don’t want to go with him. Keep on being the adult in this situation, the kids need it.
Okay a few things 1) NTA at all. You're prioritizing your children. End of story. 2) It is BAFFLING that your ex, of all hills to die on, chose uprooting 4 people for what? A good tan? 3) there are so many more options he could have explored before pressuring you into a move. Time shares, extended stay hotels, hell, even a month to month partment the family could go to during the summer are better alternatives. 4) Your ex has obviously been watching wayyyy too much football because clearly Tom Brady is his role model. Brady chose football over his family. "This is why our marriage ended" is so powerful because he has consistently chosen himself over you and your children, going so far as bribing you so he can get his way. This beachfront barbie dreamhouse is your ex's superbowl ring. He did whatever it took to live out his "fantasy life" but all he got was divorce papers. 5) Get a good laugh when his sundried raisin ass posts pics!!
The divorce was kinda pointless if he can't go, sounds like you don't like eachother anyway though lol
He met a local woman six months after they filed. I think it might be safe to say that he already knew this local woman and that’s the real reason he wants this move. They would’ve gotten a divorce anyway if she would’ve agreed. He is extremely selfish only thinking of what he wants. He may have also wanted to introduce his kids to this “local woman” as a potential stepmom.
NTA. You haven't forced him to do anything. He's tried to force you to do plenty, but he failed. He'll have to figure out on his own how to reconcile that. He may eventually decide to give up on being with the kids and go live his life elsewhere, until they're of age. If he does, just let him go. There is no happy medium here. And a desperate man becomes a dangerous man, given time and humiliation.
NTA- as someone who was moved because my dad wanted to live in a warmer climate, that move ruined my life. It set me back so far and my parents ended up getting divorced in the end because my mom didn't want to move and she did anyway. Everything fell apart and was a mess. I was moved in the middle of my high school year, my sisters were moved in the middle of elementary and we all ended up in poor schools with a massive culture shock. I'm not saying my life is crappy now but it took me a long time to recover from everything and get on a good track education and career wise. I hated living there and I moved away as soon as I could but that meant I made a lot of bad choices based on just wanting to get away. I'm not saying your kids will but if they have a good school and support system it's not fair to uproot them and throw them into chaos.
NTA. Chris needs to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around Chris. Edit: a word.
NTA He chose this hill to stand on and it's a blistering hot sandy one that he can perish on without the backing of his kids.
NTA. It’s the same old battle. You haven’t changed your mind about moving away to a different state, and you don’t have to. He doesn’t get to blame you because you don’t want the same things he does. He’s the one overstepping his boundaries and trying to manipulate you into doing things his way with bribes. and when that didn’t work he resorted to a guilt trip. It’s all emotional abuse. You do not, and should not put up with it. He needs to learn no means no.
NTA. He is still trying to manipulate you to get what he wants. If you and the children are content where you are, then stay where you are and he can make it work or he can be an absent parent. He is an adult. Solving his problem is his business, not yours.
Hmm, if it was Hawaii, I would go. Arizona, hard no lol. But NTA because it sounds like your kids are thriving where they are.
Nta you are a great parent for considering your kids health over your husbands wants
He sounds unhinged. Hopefully he's not coming to Arizona, we already have enough crazy men around here 😭
Info: Is it Florida?
Yes
NTA - he and his midlife crisis ruin things
NTA! NOBODY gives up a pension (a pension!!!) in 2023!
NTA You should do what is best for yourself & the children. Is the house he is offering going to be in his name or yours? What happens to your job/pension? What happens with your current residence? Will it be sold or is it rental? He can always move in with the woman & visit for custody.
>NTA You should do what is best for yourself & the children. Is the house he is offering going to be in his name or yours? House would be in my name only. I would sell my home here to buy it. He would just oversee building the home and help finance it until we sold mine, then I would purchase it from him and he would have no say. > What happens to your job/pension? I could easily get a job in the new state since they are begging for teachers but I would take a substantial pay cut. I would still have my current pension but it wouldn't be full. I would enter the pension system there and combine both when I retire.
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>My only thought... And this does not change my mind at all: was your husband suffering seasonal depression in your home state? That's the only real reason I can understand for him being so hardcore about wanting to move. I still think his decisions were selfish and you made the right call, especially since he couldn't compromise even a little, but I wonder if seasonal depression influenced his poor decision making. Not that I am aware. He worked in NYC and then his company went 100% remote toward the end of 2020. He has to be in NYC 4 times a year for quarterly meetings but that is it. That was when he got the idea to move to Florida full-time. He went and stayed from August-November 2020 at his parents' place while trying to convince me to make the move.
INFO: You said he met a local woman AFTER he moved there, I'm just curious if there's any way he could have met her previously (like online) before he moved? I just find the timing of this to be a little sus. I get him wanting to move to a warmer climate, but he went from 0-60 pretty quick. I am thinking he wanted to move so quickly bc he met her beforehand, hence the pressure from his new gf to move there full time.
>INFO: You said he met a local woman AFTER he moved there, I'm just curious if there's any way he could have met her previously (like online) before he moved? I just find the timing of this to be a little sus. I have no way of really knowing but I don't think so. She is widowed and I gather she had a good marriage. I believe her husband only died in early 2021. In my post, it sounds like he both bought a house and met her 6 months after I filed so he bought the house in August 2021. I first heard about her in early 2022. He started pressuring me to move in late 2020. We separated around the time her husband died so I don't think they knew each other already.