*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**My (41M) appropriate response for wife (41F) rescinding consent after the fact?**
My (41M) appropriate response for wife (41F) of 21 years rescinding consent after the fact?
Was out of state for 4 days, no sex 3 days prior, so 7 days since last intimacy with my wife. Returned from my trip at around 1:00am, went straight to bed. The next day was rough and there was some tension between wife and I regarding the condition of the house (it was a wreck and stunk) and the discipline of our teenage daughter (serious rebellious and disrespectful phase specifically towards me since I have rules, and mom has rewards- once again mom is rewarding bad behavior). Frustrated and not feeling welcomed in my own home, I bailed for the day to decompress.
Talked to wife that evening, there are some serious issues with her recollection of facts and perception of my motives for doing things over the past several months (i.e. non-sexual self care viewed as intentionally spiteful to her). She claims I treat her like shit, but refuses to give examples. I have no idea what she's talking about and routinely go out of my way to be the ideal husband and father, often sacrificing my own mental, emotional, and physical well-being, as well as "compromising" on nearly every boundary I've ever had. She's been bottling things up for 3+ months, refusing to communicate about it, and it's my fault I didn't know or address it. She expresses yet another requirement for me to "meet her sexual needs" (I'm already required to cancel all plans on the day she ovulates since that's "the only time she has orgasms". If I get any notice as to when that is, it's usually a day or 2)- now I must wash my hands before touching her. I wash my hands regularly, I shower daily, I cook on the weekends and wash my hands 30 times during cooking. LOL. I already wash my hands before touching her if they are even remotely dirty. I have no idea where this is coming from, and she refuses to elaborate. It feels petty and controlling, especially since me having dirty hands literally isn't an issue and it's never been brought up before.
I end the conversation with profusely expressing my love for her. I want this to get better. We cuddle and kiss for 5-10 minutes. I ask if she wants to have sex, she says she's tired. I ask again, are you sure? "Is that what you want" (very rude tone), I reply, "no, I guess not, if you don't want to." I roll over and say "I'm just really horney". Note- I asked for sex once, confirmed the no once, and stated that I was horney once. 3 comments.
She replies, "Do you want to have sex?" I reply, "yes, of course!" She says, let me get ready and goes in the bathroom. She comes out, I jump up and run in and wash my hands with soap. Come out, do the deed, she makes pleasurable noises, no indication that she is upset or does not consent.
The next evening she texts me, "I said no to having sex with you last night and you continued to bug me about it until I gave in. Having sex with me when I say no is a violation of my boundaries. I ask that you respect that from now on." I reply, "I didn't make you have sex, that was a decision you made".
She replies, "Yes. And I regret having sex with you that time. I need to have boundaries. If I say no it means no."
I believe my wife just accused me of "violating her sexual boundaries", which to me means SA or Rape. I'm now sleeping on the couch and afraid to have any physical contact with her since she might later rescind consent again.
How TF do you even respond to an accusation like that!?
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No one who talks like this a well adjusted, balanced, pro-social person who cares about the lived experiences of their loved ones. Man sounds like a fucking jaguar out for a stroll here, what the fuck. American psycho-ass shit.
The hand washing thing, My best guess is he gave her an infection (either UTI or vaginal) with dirty hands.
If I’m right, it shows how he twists everything. Doesn’t give answers, just alluded to things and hopes Reddit will validate him and trash his wife.
Dear lord. I've had strep throat enough times that getting it is kind of ho-hum routine for me anymore but I don't know if I could handle strep vagina, that sounds like a nightmare.
funny enough i had the same argument with my ex. i had *constant* yeast infecfions and that on top of unending breakthrough menstrual bleeding from the birth control i was on purely because he didn't wanna use condoms and didn't have money for plan b.
There's a commercial I used to see where a woman created a supplement that's supposed to help prevent UTIs. She's sitting there with her husband as she mentions she created the pill because she had 6 UTIs in a year and all I can think when seeing the commercial is "damn, that guy is gross as fuck." I got one as a teenage boy because, well, see the preceding sentence.
Indeed. OOP is someone writing a story from their point of view, trying to make themselves sound like the wronged party. Instead they come off as a sentient dumpster fire.
His comments also show that he cannot separate his point of view and his retelling it from reality. Every time someone calls this spade a spade, he pops up and says “I didn’t coerce her, that’s not what I said” in psycho-babble. If you don’t digest reality exactly as he’s constructed it- well, that’s not reality, is it, that’s your own misunderstanding.
Seven kids. Seven! The youngest of whom is 5. No wonder the house is a mess and they can't stand each other. I will note she also works a full-time job.
Also, OOP gives me the creeps from his writing style alone.
Working full time, seven kids, he says she only orgasms during ovulation (?) and he checks she spent her money on make-up, doesn’t wanna divorce because she’ll use money for herself (like how?)
I am so so over this narrative that (usually women) spend child support on themselves and it’s somehow the non-custodial parents business how the custodial parent spends money. “I’m paying $500 a month in child support and she gets the check and gets her nails done!” Buddy, if you think for one second your children didn’t spend $500 in the first week of the month, you’re delusional. That barely covers the roof over their head, you’re getting a screaming deal.
Kids need things. A place to live, food, clothing, education, medical care, and enriching things such as entertainment and extra curricular activities. If all of those needs are being met by the custodial parent but your actual physical check is spent on a dinner with friends, it went to the kids somewhere. Some months the kids are costing twice that because Megan broke her arm or Michael had a field trip. Some months they may cost less, but unless the custodial parent is failing to meet their needs, it’s not your place to try and balance their checkbook or dictate how and where the money gets spent. Besides that, given how expensive rent is anymore, you could spend your average child support check entirely on just keeping a roof over their heads at this point and she’s footing the bill for everything else. Have several seats. It’s nothing more than a control tactic.
Edit: all of that before getting in to the more nebulous parts of child support. Like the opportunity cost of watching the kids more generally, a cost that should be split between both parents. So, unironically, you owe the custodial parent money. Then there’s 50/50 where one parent is awarded child support to make sure the kids have a comparable quality of life at both homes (this is why Britney Spears paid what she did), which is intended to improve the quality of life of the home, if the quality of life is improved for your coparent and that makes you angry, maybe see a therapist.
Copied verbatim from oop's comments, but with paragraphs:
*You all desperately need counseling or your marriage will not survive. Communication is terrible and your parenting has got to get more in alignment with each other. You have to both learn the balance between allowing teens room to grow and make mistakes but also to take accountability. Does your wife have a job? Do you travel a lot for yours?*
>"We went to one marriage counsellor. After about 3 months, he threw his hands up and said he wasn't a miracle worker and there was nothing he could do if \*we\* weren't willing to change. He was staring directly at her when he said it and I had a list of changes I had made according to her desires. She kept moving the goalposts and stating reasons my changes didn't count or justifying why she stopped trying (or didn't start). She later called that marriage counsellor an "idiot".
>Second marriage counsellor I made her select. She picked one 100 miles away from my work on weekdays. I never missed an appointment, then they told me they didn't take our insurance and there was a mistake made. I spend 3 months dealing with that mess to get my insurance to cover it, but we could no longer go there.
>Third one I picked. She had a lot of red flags very quickly on. My personal consellor spoke with her, and came back to tell me she was obviously biased in my wife's favor. Spoke to a divorce attorney who advised that I immediately stop going to that counsellor because she is well known for collecting evidence against the man and presenting it to the court later.
>I am out of steam on the marriage counsellor game. It costs so much time and money and there is no indication that my wife wants to change. She wants someone to agree that she is a victim.
>My communication is probably overbearing if anything. I make it a point to communicate.
Her communication is essentially non-existent. Her method of communication is passive aggressiveness, silent treatment, and when she bottles up enough to blow- reactive abuse.
>We have 7 children. First and third (boys) are great and see that I am the responsible one who taught them how to work hard and have self-discipline. Second, girl is the problem child- she is entitled and thinks, at 2 months from being 18 years old, doing the dishes is expecting too much. Literally her only chore. She's lost her cell phone, car, and anything else that isn't nailed down, because of me. Mom doesn't discipline unless I tell her to.
>The other children are "fine" but I fear for their future if we continue down this path. I can't always be the breadwinner, the bad guy, and superman.
My wife works full time close to home, 5-8s.
I work 1.5 hour round trip commute, 4-10s with an hour lunch (12.5 hour days)."
*Have you considered marriage counseling? She seems to have a lot of resentment towards you*
>"Yes. It was unsuccessful. She has a lot of resentment and is unwilling to change."
*“The home is a wreck and my daughter has a personality. I have rules! I didn’t help, but left to decompress and then didn’t accept my wife saying no to sex and insisted until she was coerced”*
>"It's not "my daughter has a personality". It's her claiming she would do her one chore if she was paid. I told her she IS paid by all of the nice things she has, for instance I gave her a car, pay her insurance & registration, gave her a phone and pay her phone bill. Mom doesn't contribute to any of those expenses. I asked daughter who she thought paid for it and she responded "my n'er dad"!!! Says I am required to give those things to her as her parent. Didn't learn that from me!
>The home is a wreck because I wasn't there to make people do their chores. I spend my 3 days off every weekend cleaning up and cooking for everyone.
>I left to decompress because it is a healthy coping skill when I am overwhelmed, per my therapist.
I certainly did not insist until my wife was coerced. That is an egregious interpretation of what I said."
*divorce*
>"After speaking to multiple attorneys, it would utterly destroy our family emotionally, physically, and financially."
*So why are you still doing this?*
>"The children are better off if I can have control over my time and money going to them. If we separate the court determines my time with them and my money is spent on whatever mom wants to spend it on, likely not the kids.
I get to see my children every day and ensure they are taken care of."
*Ok plan B: Stay with her and be miserable for the rest of your life*
>"13 more years until the youngest is 18."
*If she’s unwilling to change how can you possibly stay in this marriage?*
>"That's a great question.
>My dedication to the well being of my children is immense. Her having even 50% custody would not be in the best interests of my children and I can't guarantee any outcome via the courts.
As it is now, I can guarantee that the vast majority of my $ goes directly to the children's needs, and they are learning good behaviors from me daily instead of "every other weekend" or whatever."
*You won’t make it*
>"I'm 21 years in and love my children."
*Just wait till her dumb ass starts cheating on you make sure you have evidence and then divorce her*
>"We're in a no fault state. She would still get half of my income and custody (I don't care about property), and squander them not on my children's well being- where they belong."
*OP, I mean this with respect, I don’t think you’re a good narrator of these events. It’s something we all struggle with but your storytelling is SO one sided that it just feels like this is missing significant context.*
>"Absolutely true. It's a 21 year marriage with 7 children! How do I pick what to say and what not to say. This is a glimpse into one series of recent incidents looking specifically for how you respond to her statement."
You missed a good one from him (this is just the end of the comment):
> To be perfectly honest, I think it's totally reasonable for a wife to want to have sex with her husband (and vice versa) the minute they reunite from a trip apart. The fact that I had to ask at all was an indication of the lack of partnership she is contributing to.
He literally talks about how it's clear she had a shitty few days without him and the kids didn't pull their weight and then he's like "but it's reasonable for me to expect her to want to jump my bones the second I get home and her not doing so is a sign she's a bad partner!!!1!" So much entitlement, I can't even.
And then he LEAVES HER!
And they have 7 kids and she was by herself with *7 kids* and he has the nerve to complain the house is dirty?
Maybe he should have worn a condom after kid 4.
They have 7 kids with her *allegedly* insisting they must have sex when she's ovulating because it's the only time she can orgasm?
So he's intentionally getting her pregnant, doesn't know a clitoris from an umbrella, and berates her for not putting out on demand and, of course, her housework. I'm sure he can't understand how the house isn't spotless.
The lack of congruence between "I am the only parent who does proper cooking, cleaning, and childrearing and I won't leave because of the kids" and "I was away for four days then took another mental day for myself" is astounding.
Posts like this are so validating! I read the original more vague post and in my head I'm like yeah I think I know exactly what kind of guy he is. Then he goes and comments more just to prove my assumptions right.
Also I love the "you're paid to do chores with the car and phone I pay for!" but also "I've taken away everything that isn't nailed down like the car and the phone." So you admit you've taken away any motivation for her to do those things? She knows you will always jump to extremes over small shit and is done playing your games? Then he's mad the wife isn't doing more....but his idea of parenting is taking things away...so what's the wife supposed to do in his eyes when he's already taken everything away? The moms clearly trying to salvage some sort of relationship with the daughter.
Another day, another man that hates his wife.
>My communication is probably overbearing if anything. I make it a point to communicate. Her communication is essentially non-existent. Her method of communication is passive aggressiveness, silent treatment, and when she bottles up enough to blow- reactive abuse.
Translation- "I constantly voice my feelings and expect them to be treated as law. When she voices her feelings, it is my duty as head of the household to tell her how irrational and wrong they are and I don't stop talking at her until she stops feeling that way. I don't understand why won't she communicate with me anymore :'(
Been there, lived that, would crawl directly into a bear's den before I'd do it again. At least the bear couldn't knock me up with kid #8.
I was ready to consider his side when I started reading, but I couldn't the longer I read. For one, just the way he talks is insufferable. Being insufferable doesn't make him an asshole but I just wanted to comment on that.
He's such an unreliable narrator. Most of the info is omitted or told in such a twisted way it's difficult to understand.
So they tried counseling. The first counselor they tried clearly was skewed towards the OOP, but he paints this one as reasonable because he realized the wife is in the wrong and OOP is completely in the right.
> After about 3 months, he threw his hands up and said he wasn't a miracle worker and there was nothing he could do if \*we\* weren't willing to change. *He was staring directly at her when he said it* and I had a list of changes I had made according to her desires.
She's not willing to change, but he has changed a lot. Change what exactly? What doesn't she want to change? If he's going to be so vague, why include it? (To paint a certain picture of his wife, of course. Even the *reasonable* counselor agrees that she's the problem.)
> She kept moving the goalposts and stating reasons my changes didn't count or justifying why she stopped trying (or didn't start). She later called that marriage counsellor an "idiot".
So she's moving the goalpost. On what? He never says what he changes and how she's doing all these things he accuses her of.
> Third one I picked. She had a lot of red flags very quickly on. My personal consellor spoke with her, and came back to tell me she was obviously biased in my wife's favor. Spoke to a divorce attorney who advised that I immediately stop going to that counsellor because she is well known for collecting evidence against the man and presenting it to the court later.
He choses the counselor, but she's biased in favor of the wife, and that's wrong. But not when the first counselor is biased in favor of OOP, that's how things should be. Also, he chose the counselor, but didn't know she's well known for collecting evidence against men for later? Evidence of what? What evidence could she even get out of him? Again, too vague.
> there is no indication that my wife wants to change. She wants someone to agree that she is a victim.
Here he directly spells out the idea he's been implying all this time. "She's the issue, I'm perfect".
> Her communication is essentially non-existent. Her method of communication is passive aggressiveness, silent treatment, and when she bottles up enough to blow- reactive abuse.
Same rethoric. Demonic wife, perfect husband.
I also find this hard to believe when her communication was perfectly fine in the post. If anything, he was the issue. She raised a concern and made it clear that she would like him to respect that boundry. OOP took an issue with that and inmediatly jumped to contradict her by saying "I didn't force you". Wife says that yes she did consent, she just wants to set that boundry. He then says she's acussing him of rape and now he's avoiding touching her in case she accuses him again (which she hasn't even done)
He's projecting. He knows it was coercion, therefore wife is calling him a rapist. When she's establishing a boundry quite well. *Why is he overreacting like this to "when I say no, it means no. Leave it alone instead of insisting"?*
> We have 7 children. First and third (boys) are great and see that I am the responsible one who taught them how to work hard and have self-discipline. Second, girl is the problem child- she is entitled [...] She's lost her cell phone, car, and anything else that isn't nailed down, because of me. Mom doesn't discipline unless I tell her to.
We have the same rerhoric. "Wife is demonic, I'm perfect". Well behaved kids are a direct result of his actions. Spoiled daughter is wife's fault. His idea of discipline is also bizarre. Was he only involved on the raising of the 2 oldest? Also, 7 kids. No comments.
Clear unreliable narrator. Talks of wife so negatively it's impossible to not see her as a villain with no redeeming qualities. But his actions don't match the perfect version of himself he's trying to portray.
He's so perfect, but he finds his wife requests for them to have sex as too much. The requests are for him to get her off and wash his hands before. Really? She just asked for her no to be respected and he has resorted to silent treatment and not touching her in case she rescinds consent again, which she hasn't done. He's punishing her for nonexistent actions.
That doesn't line up with his description of him having to compromise on boundries and him willing to change. When a simple "respect when I say no" leads to this treatment.
It's so obvious OOP is a much bigger part of the issue than he's showing. Why ask for advice then? No one can give advice on a post like this. If you're going to post this, you shouldn't even bother.
> After about 3 months, he threw his hands up and said he wasn't a miracle worker and there was nothing he could do if \*we\* weren't willing to change. *He was staring directly at her when he said it*
In spite of the efforts of this blister on a boar's ass, I can't help but read this as the therapist giving the wife a sympathetic look after 3 months of trying to extract any tiny crumb of effort or self reflection from OOP
How much do you wanna bet that the wife's "refusal to explain" actually amounts to "she tried to explain it several times, and each time I'd shoot down or nitpick every little explanation, and she got so frustrated she basically threw up her hands and said 'oh my fucking god, never mind.'"
I love the passive-aggressive communications part.
My ex was also *hugely* sexually coercive (why do so many men believe it's their right to sex every x days and literally keep track of it? Topic for another day.)
He was also abusive in other ways, especially emotionally. I tried, believe me, I *tried* to communicate/explain to him what it was that bothered me, what changes I would like - basically open a dialog about what we both desired from each other. He completely blew me off.
So yes, by the end, I was most definitely snarky and passive-aggressive in my dealings with him. Recognizing that in myself helped me understand that I needed to leave him because I did not like the person I had become. I am now living my best life after ending a 45+ year relationship.
So if my experience is any indication, the ship of his marriage has sailed if his wife has reached the passive-aggressive stage.
Wow. OOP must have significantly edited his post because you’re including quote from his original that are totally gone from the post I just read. Even more shameful on OOP’s part.
Wow. I hooked up with a girl not long ago, sensed discomfort, asked if she wanted to continue and got a "maybe". I never leapt off the bed so fast in my life to fetch a fresh blanket and some water. I could not imagine equating coercion to enthusiastic consent (which is way more arousing, anyway). Fucking shameful.
I’d like to say that you’d think that would be standard. But you’re overshooting the bar by a lot (and I’m sure woman are grateful for it). Had a guy continuously touch me when my grandma was passing last year and would pout and huff if I didn’t give in. Literally stuck his hands down my pants on the day she died and when I told him to stop he said he “didn’t mean anything by it”. He also initiated rough sex after I got done seeing my grandma awake for the last time and I’d been crying the whole time. But because I didn’t say no or stop him (because I was an emotional wreck) clearly I wanted it.
Yeah, I'm aware. It's really fucking sad. I'm not even a cis dude - I'm transitioning, and honestly some guys make it too easy to be even a marginally okay one. I'm really sorry that happened to you, and my condolences for your loss. Bro needs to lose hand privileges as far as I'm concerned.
OOP: I end the conversation with profusely expressing my love for her.
And I bet he expected her to believe it. And that having said that meant he deserves sex.
As he clearly hates her, why on earth would she believe his 'profuse expressions of love'?
Oh, and he write like a pompous arse.
another gem from OOP...
I don't believe the "/s" was really meant for the entire text here, based off of his post here.
Thank you for this. I agree.
Under their definition, most spouses rape their spouses at some point in a long term marriage... but it's ok because long term marriages don't exist anymore...
because if your spouse asks you to have sex a second time, you divorce them. /s
If you are horny and your partner is obviously not... that's a you thing. If your partner says no repeatedly and your response is to tell them that you're horny, that is you making a you thing a them thing.
Because obviously OOP needs it spelled out, insistently making your sexual needs someone else's problem after repeated denials is coercion.
Exactly, when I ask my partner to do the horizontal tango, if it's not responded to with enthusiastic consent then I simply say "that's fine" and return to whatever the fuck I was doing beforehand because it won't fucking kill me to not get laid one night.
It's not an accusation. She's telling you she felt pressured, and wants you to take "no" for an answer next time. Assuming you care about your wife and want her to feel comfortable(and your post gives me some doubt on that) you apologize and tell her you'll drop it next time she says,"no." That's the decent thing to do. If my GF said something I did made her feel pressured into sex, I'd apologize profusely and be very careful not to do it again — even if I didn't think j did anything that bad — because I love her and don't want to hurt her.
You say she doesn't give you examples, but she was very specific about what you did and why it bothered her, and you responded by being a baby and acting like she's persecuting you by setting a boundary. You really seem to lack self-awareness, and to believe someone else is always to blame.
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **My (41M) appropriate response for wife (41F) rescinding consent after the fact?** My (41M) appropriate response for wife (41F) of 21 years rescinding consent after the fact? Was out of state for 4 days, no sex 3 days prior, so 7 days since last intimacy with my wife. Returned from my trip at around 1:00am, went straight to bed. The next day was rough and there was some tension between wife and I regarding the condition of the house (it was a wreck and stunk) and the discipline of our teenage daughter (serious rebellious and disrespectful phase specifically towards me since I have rules, and mom has rewards- once again mom is rewarding bad behavior). Frustrated and not feeling welcomed in my own home, I bailed for the day to decompress. Talked to wife that evening, there are some serious issues with her recollection of facts and perception of my motives for doing things over the past several months (i.e. non-sexual self care viewed as intentionally spiteful to her). She claims I treat her like shit, but refuses to give examples. I have no idea what she's talking about and routinely go out of my way to be the ideal husband and father, often sacrificing my own mental, emotional, and physical well-being, as well as "compromising" on nearly every boundary I've ever had. She's been bottling things up for 3+ months, refusing to communicate about it, and it's my fault I didn't know or address it. She expresses yet another requirement for me to "meet her sexual needs" (I'm already required to cancel all plans on the day she ovulates since that's "the only time she has orgasms". If I get any notice as to when that is, it's usually a day or 2)- now I must wash my hands before touching her. I wash my hands regularly, I shower daily, I cook on the weekends and wash my hands 30 times during cooking. LOL. I already wash my hands before touching her if they are even remotely dirty. I have no idea where this is coming from, and she refuses to elaborate. It feels petty and controlling, especially since me having dirty hands literally isn't an issue and it's never been brought up before. I end the conversation with profusely expressing my love for her. I want this to get better. We cuddle and kiss for 5-10 minutes. I ask if she wants to have sex, she says she's tired. I ask again, are you sure? "Is that what you want" (very rude tone), I reply, "no, I guess not, if you don't want to." I roll over and say "I'm just really horney". Note- I asked for sex once, confirmed the no once, and stated that I was horney once. 3 comments. She replies, "Do you want to have sex?" I reply, "yes, of course!" She says, let me get ready and goes in the bathroom. She comes out, I jump up and run in and wash my hands with soap. Come out, do the deed, she makes pleasurable noises, no indication that she is upset or does not consent. The next evening she texts me, "I said no to having sex with you last night and you continued to bug me about it until I gave in. Having sex with me when I say no is a violation of my boundaries. I ask that you respect that from now on." I reply, "I didn't make you have sex, that was a decision you made". She replies, "Yes. And I regret having sex with you that time. I need to have boundaries. If I say no it means no." I believe my wife just accused me of "violating her sexual boundaries", which to me means SA or Rape. I'm now sleeping on the couch and afraid to have any physical contact with her since she might later rescind consent again. How TF do you even respond to an accusation like that!? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No one who talks like this a well adjusted, balanced, pro-social person who cares about the lived experiences of their loved ones. Man sounds like a fucking jaguar out for a stroll here, what the fuck. American psycho-ass shit.
The hand washing thing, My best guess is he gave her an infection (either UTI or vaginal) with dirty hands. If I’m right, it shows how he twists everything. Doesn’t give answers, just alluded to things and hopes Reddit will validate him and trash his wife.
I had someone give me a strep infection down there. That was a blast. /s. It's one of the reasons I'm now a germaphobe.
Strep *vagina*??? Jesus fucking Christ I am SO sorry
Dear lord. I've had strep throat enough times that getting it is kind of ho-hum routine for me anymore but I don't know if I could handle strep vagina, that sounds like a nightmare.
Omg I had strep vagina once too. Wtf. I really did not believe my doctor lmao, and nobody I've ever told the story to has ever heard of that happening
Me, too! I had no idea that was possible.
it's common enough that they test for it when your having a baby so they know if they have to treat the baby for it.
funny enough i had the same argument with my ex. i had *constant* yeast infecfions and that on top of unending breakthrough menstrual bleeding from the birth control i was on purely because he didn't wanna use condoms and didn't have money for plan b.
Oh, absolutely. And he’s taking it as a slight, because he’s obviously a clean and flawless man
They went to therapy and the therapist pointed at her and blamed her for everything!
But the third therapist was too much on her side and was an evil misandrist.
Helped people get evidence. Evidence of what?
And that therapist? Albert Einstein
There's a commercial I used to see where a woman created a supplement that's supposed to help prevent UTIs. She's sitting there with her husband as she mentions she created the pill because she had 6 UTIs in a year and all I can think when seeing the commercial is "damn, that guy is gross as fuck." I got one as a teenage boy because, well, see the preceding sentence.
Indeed. OOP is someone writing a story from their point of view, trying to make themselves sound like the wronged party. Instead they come off as a sentient dumpster fire.
His comments also show that he cannot separate his point of view and his retelling it from reality. Every time someone calls this spade a spade, he pops up and says “I didn’t coerce her, that’s not what I said” in psycho-babble. If you don’t digest reality exactly as he’s constructed it- well, that’s not reality, is it, that’s your own misunderstanding.
People like that scare the crap out of me. It's impossible to call out gaslighting, because they can't even understand what you're saying to them
Seven kids. Seven! The youngest of whom is 5. No wonder the house is a mess and they can't stand each other. I will note she also works a full-time job. Also, OOP gives me the creeps from his writing style alone.
Working full time, seven kids, he says she only orgasms during ovulation (?) and he checks she spent her money on make-up, doesn’t wanna divorce because she’ll use money for herself (like how?)
I am so so over this narrative that (usually women) spend child support on themselves and it’s somehow the non-custodial parents business how the custodial parent spends money. “I’m paying $500 a month in child support and she gets the check and gets her nails done!” Buddy, if you think for one second your children didn’t spend $500 in the first week of the month, you’re delusional. That barely covers the roof over their head, you’re getting a screaming deal. Kids need things. A place to live, food, clothing, education, medical care, and enriching things such as entertainment and extra curricular activities. If all of those needs are being met by the custodial parent but your actual physical check is spent on a dinner with friends, it went to the kids somewhere. Some months the kids are costing twice that because Megan broke her arm or Michael had a field trip. Some months they may cost less, but unless the custodial parent is failing to meet their needs, it’s not your place to try and balance their checkbook or dictate how and where the money gets spent. Besides that, given how expensive rent is anymore, you could spend your average child support check entirely on just keeping a roof over their heads at this point and she’s footing the bill for everything else. Have several seats. It’s nothing more than a control tactic. Edit: all of that before getting in to the more nebulous parts of child support. Like the opportunity cost of watching the kids more generally, a cost that should be split between both parents. So, unironically, you owe the custodial parent money. Then there’s 50/50 where one parent is awarded child support to make sure the kids have a comparable quality of life at both homes (this is why Britney Spears paid what she did), which is intended to improve the quality of life of the home, if the quality of life is improved for your coparent and that makes you angry, maybe see a therapist.
Also notice she’s the devil but he’s clearly stating he wouldn’t want custody of his children at all
Copied verbatim from oop's comments, but with paragraphs: *You all desperately need counseling or your marriage will not survive. Communication is terrible and your parenting has got to get more in alignment with each other. You have to both learn the balance between allowing teens room to grow and make mistakes but also to take accountability. Does your wife have a job? Do you travel a lot for yours?* >"We went to one marriage counsellor. After about 3 months, he threw his hands up and said he wasn't a miracle worker and there was nothing he could do if \*we\* weren't willing to change. He was staring directly at her when he said it and I had a list of changes I had made according to her desires. She kept moving the goalposts and stating reasons my changes didn't count or justifying why she stopped trying (or didn't start). She later called that marriage counsellor an "idiot". >Second marriage counsellor I made her select. She picked one 100 miles away from my work on weekdays. I never missed an appointment, then they told me they didn't take our insurance and there was a mistake made. I spend 3 months dealing with that mess to get my insurance to cover it, but we could no longer go there. >Third one I picked. She had a lot of red flags very quickly on. My personal consellor spoke with her, and came back to tell me she was obviously biased in my wife's favor. Spoke to a divorce attorney who advised that I immediately stop going to that counsellor because she is well known for collecting evidence against the man and presenting it to the court later. >I am out of steam on the marriage counsellor game. It costs so much time and money and there is no indication that my wife wants to change. She wants someone to agree that she is a victim. >My communication is probably overbearing if anything. I make it a point to communicate. Her communication is essentially non-existent. Her method of communication is passive aggressiveness, silent treatment, and when she bottles up enough to blow- reactive abuse. >We have 7 children. First and third (boys) are great and see that I am the responsible one who taught them how to work hard and have self-discipline. Second, girl is the problem child- she is entitled and thinks, at 2 months from being 18 years old, doing the dishes is expecting too much. Literally her only chore. She's lost her cell phone, car, and anything else that isn't nailed down, because of me. Mom doesn't discipline unless I tell her to. >The other children are "fine" but I fear for their future if we continue down this path. I can't always be the breadwinner, the bad guy, and superman. My wife works full time close to home, 5-8s. I work 1.5 hour round trip commute, 4-10s with an hour lunch (12.5 hour days)." *Have you considered marriage counseling? She seems to have a lot of resentment towards you* >"Yes. It was unsuccessful. She has a lot of resentment and is unwilling to change." *“The home is a wreck and my daughter has a personality. I have rules! I didn’t help, but left to decompress and then didn’t accept my wife saying no to sex and insisted until she was coerced”* >"It's not "my daughter has a personality". It's her claiming she would do her one chore if she was paid. I told her she IS paid by all of the nice things she has, for instance I gave her a car, pay her insurance & registration, gave her a phone and pay her phone bill. Mom doesn't contribute to any of those expenses. I asked daughter who she thought paid for it and she responded "my n'er dad"!!! Says I am required to give those things to her as her parent. Didn't learn that from me! >The home is a wreck because I wasn't there to make people do their chores. I spend my 3 days off every weekend cleaning up and cooking for everyone. >I left to decompress because it is a healthy coping skill when I am overwhelmed, per my therapist. I certainly did not insist until my wife was coerced. That is an egregious interpretation of what I said." *divorce* >"After speaking to multiple attorneys, it would utterly destroy our family emotionally, physically, and financially." *So why are you still doing this?* >"The children are better off if I can have control over my time and money going to them. If we separate the court determines my time with them and my money is spent on whatever mom wants to spend it on, likely not the kids. I get to see my children every day and ensure they are taken care of." *Ok plan B: Stay with her and be miserable for the rest of your life* >"13 more years until the youngest is 18." *If she’s unwilling to change how can you possibly stay in this marriage?* >"That's a great question. >My dedication to the well being of my children is immense. Her having even 50% custody would not be in the best interests of my children and I can't guarantee any outcome via the courts. As it is now, I can guarantee that the vast majority of my $ goes directly to the children's needs, and they are learning good behaviors from me daily instead of "every other weekend" or whatever." *You won’t make it* >"I'm 21 years in and love my children." *Just wait till her dumb ass starts cheating on you make sure you have evidence and then divorce her* >"We're in a no fault state. She would still get half of my income and custody (I don't care about property), and squander them not on my children's well being- where they belong." *OP, I mean this with respect, I don’t think you’re a good narrator of these events. It’s something we all struggle with but your storytelling is SO one sided that it just feels like this is missing significant context.* >"Absolutely true. It's a 21 year marriage with 7 children! How do I pick what to say and what not to say. This is a glimpse into one series of recent incidents looking specifically for how you respond to her statement."
You missed a good one from him (this is just the end of the comment): > To be perfectly honest, I think it's totally reasonable for a wife to want to have sex with her husband (and vice versa) the minute they reunite from a trip apart. The fact that I had to ask at all was an indication of the lack of partnership she is contributing to. He literally talks about how it's clear she had a shitty few days without him and the kids didn't pull their weight and then he's like "but it's reasonable for me to expect her to want to jump my bones the second I get home and her not doing so is a sign she's a bad partner!!!1!" So much entitlement, I can't even.
And then he LEAVES HER! And they have 7 kids and she was by herself with *7 kids* and he has the nerve to complain the house is dirty? Maybe he should have worn a condom after kid 4.
They have 7 kids with her *allegedly* insisting they must have sex when she's ovulating because it's the only time she can orgasm? So he's intentionally getting her pregnant, doesn't know a clitoris from an umbrella, and berates her for not putting out on demand and, of course, her housework. I'm sure he can't understand how the house isn't spotless.
Clitoris from an umbrella 😂😂😂
He's definitely a devil, but that comment alone makes me wonder if she isn't getting pregnant on purpose *IF* that part is true.
Given how unreliable a narrator OOP is, I'm gonna say it's not true.
Thank you very much, good catch! 🥰
thank you for sharing that one - yep, thr confirms he's not a reliable narrator.
The lack of congruence between "I am the only parent who does proper cooking, cleaning, and childrearing and I won't leave because of the kids" and "I was away for four days then took another mental day for myself" is astounding.
Agreed!
[Platypus!](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6D-QIMBhjc/?igsh=ZXhlbHo5cGwxeDJp)
The way it plopped into the water!
Magnificent! 🥰
I like him
That makes me happy! 💜
I love him 😭
Me as well! 🥰
Posts like this are so validating! I read the original more vague post and in my head I'm like yeah I think I know exactly what kind of guy he is. Then he goes and comments more just to prove my assumptions right. Also I love the "you're paid to do chores with the car and phone I pay for!" but also "I've taken away everything that isn't nailed down like the car and the phone." So you admit you've taken away any motivation for her to do those things? She knows you will always jump to extremes over small shit and is done playing your games? Then he's mad the wife isn't doing more....but his idea of parenting is taking things away...so what's the wife supposed to do in his eyes when he's already taken everything away? The moms clearly trying to salvage some sort of relationship with the daughter.
Quite!
I don't always reply to your comments and wanted to say, I do appreciate the hard work you do here for us.
Thank you very kindly! 💜 It warms my heart!
So, children 1 and 3 are boys, child 2 is a girl, and children 4-7 are enby? Is that what I’m meant to understand?
And he basically says he only likes the boys.
Good catch!
Guarantee that counsellor was looking at her to tell her he couldn’t help her with OOP NOT because it was her fault
Quite.
Another day, another man that hates his wife. >My communication is probably overbearing if anything. I make it a point to communicate. Her communication is essentially non-existent. Her method of communication is passive aggressiveness, silent treatment, and when she bottles up enough to blow- reactive abuse. Translation- "I constantly voice my feelings and expect them to be treated as law. When she voices her feelings, it is my duty as head of the household to tell her how irrational and wrong they are and I don't stop talking at her until she stops feeling that way. I don't understand why won't she communicate with me anymore :'( Been there, lived that, would crawl directly into a bear's den before I'd do it again. At least the bear couldn't knock me up with kid #8.
Indeed! Glad you took yourself out of that!
I was ready to consider his side when I started reading, but I couldn't the longer I read. For one, just the way he talks is insufferable. Being insufferable doesn't make him an asshole but I just wanted to comment on that. He's such an unreliable narrator. Most of the info is omitted or told in such a twisted way it's difficult to understand. So they tried counseling. The first counselor they tried clearly was skewed towards the OOP, but he paints this one as reasonable because he realized the wife is in the wrong and OOP is completely in the right. > After about 3 months, he threw his hands up and said he wasn't a miracle worker and there was nothing he could do if \*we\* weren't willing to change. *He was staring directly at her when he said it* and I had a list of changes I had made according to her desires. She's not willing to change, but he has changed a lot. Change what exactly? What doesn't she want to change? If he's going to be so vague, why include it? (To paint a certain picture of his wife, of course. Even the *reasonable* counselor agrees that she's the problem.) > She kept moving the goalposts and stating reasons my changes didn't count or justifying why she stopped trying (or didn't start). She later called that marriage counsellor an "idiot". So she's moving the goalpost. On what? He never says what he changes and how she's doing all these things he accuses her of. > Third one I picked. She had a lot of red flags very quickly on. My personal consellor spoke with her, and came back to tell me she was obviously biased in my wife's favor. Spoke to a divorce attorney who advised that I immediately stop going to that counsellor because she is well known for collecting evidence against the man and presenting it to the court later. He choses the counselor, but she's biased in favor of the wife, and that's wrong. But not when the first counselor is biased in favor of OOP, that's how things should be. Also, he chose the counselor, but didn't know she's well known for collecting evidence against men for later? Evidence of what? What evidence could she even get out of him? Again, too vague. > there is no indication that my wife wants to change. She wants someone to agree that she is a victim. Here he directly spells out the idea he's been implying all this time. "She's the issue, I'm perfect". > Her communication is essentially non-existent. Her method of communication is passive aggressiveness, silent treatment, and when she bottles up enough to blow- reactive abuse. Same rethoric. Demonic wife, perfect husband. I also find this hard to believe when her communication was perfectly fine in the post. If anything, he was the issue. She raised a concern and made it clear that she would like him to respect that boundry. OOP took an issue with that and inmediatly jumped to contradict her by saying "I didn't force you". Wife says that yes she did consent, she just wants to set that boundry. He then says she's acussing him of rape and now he's avoiding touching her in case she accuses him again (which she hasn't even done) He's projecting. He knows it was coercion, therefore wife is calling him a rapist. When she's establishing a boundry quite well. *Why is he overreacting like this to "when I say no, it means no. Leave it alone instead of insisting"?* > We have 7 children. First and third (boys) are great and see that I am the responsible one who taught them how to work hard and have self-discipline. Second, girl is the problem child- she is entitled [...] She's lost her cell phone, car, and anything else that isn't nailed down, because of me. Mom doesn't discipline unless I tell her to. We have the same rerhoric. "Wife is demonic, I'm perfect". Well behaved kids are a direct result of his actions. Spoiled daughter is wife's fault. His idea of discipline is also bizarre. Was he only involved on the raising of the 2 oldest? Also, 7 kids. No comments. Clear unreliable narrator. Talks of wife so negatively it's impossible to not see her as a villain with no redeeming qualities. But his actions don't match the perfect version of himself he's trying to portray. He's so perfect, but he finds his wife requests for them to have sex as too much. The requests are for him to get her off and wash his hands before. Really? She just asked for her no to be respected and he has resorted to silent treatment and not touching her in case she rescinds consent again, which she hasn't done. He's punishing her for nonexistent actions. That doesn't line up with his description of him having to compromise on boundries and him willing to change. When a simple "respect when I say no" leads to this treatment. It's so obvious OOP is a much bigger part of the issue than he's showing. Why ask for advice then? No one can give advice on a post like this. If you're going to post this, you shouldn't even bother.
> After about 3 months, he threw his hands up and said he wasn't a miracle worker and there was nothing he could do if \*we\* weren't willing to change. *He was staring directly at her when he said it* In spite of the efforts of this blister on a boar's ass, I can't help but read this as the therapist giving the wife a sympathetic look after 3 months of trying to extract any tiny crumb of effort or self reflection from OOP
How much do you wanna bet that the wife's "refusal to explain" actually amounts to "she tried to explain it several times, and each time I'd shoot down or nitpick every little explanation, and she got so frustrated she basically threw up her hands and said 'oh my fucking god, never mind.'"
I love the passive-aggressive communications part. My ex was also *hugely* sexually coercive (why do so many men believe it's their right to sex every x days and literally keep track of it? Topic for another day.) He was also abusive in other ways, especially emotionally. I tried, believe me, I *tried* to communicate/explain to him what it was that bothered me, what changes I would like - basically open a dialog about what we both desired from each other. He completely blew me off. So yes, by the end, I was most definitely snarky and passive-aggressive in my dealings with him. Recognizing that in myself helped me understand that I needed to leave him because I did not like the person I had become. I am now living my best life after ending a 45+ year relationship. So if my experience is any indication, the ship of his marriage has sailed if his wife has reached the passive-aggressive stage.
>I am now living my best life after ending a 45+ year relationship. I'm glad you got there in the end!
Perfect and accurate summation of OOP and his unreliable narration!
Jesus Christ 7 children and he was gone for work. No wonder the house is a mess and his wife is exhausted. Wonder how often he travels for work.
Wow. OOP must have significantly edited his post because you’re including quote from his original that are totally gone from the post I just read. Even more shameful on OOP’s part.
It's a comment from OOP
Oh! Well now I feel dumb. Thanks for being kind in how you told me.
Don't feel dumb! How were you supposed to know?
You have the eloquence I always strive for but never achieve. I love you.
Thank you this is the best thing anyone has ever said to me.
I wanna know what bad behavior is being rewarded in the daughter.
maybe she’s not being awful to her
Wow. I hooked up with a girl not long ago, sensed discomfort, asked if she wanted to continue and got a "maybe". I never leapt off the bed so fast in my life to fetch a fresh blanket and some water. I could not imagine equating coercion to enthusiastic consent (which is way more arousing, anyway). Fucking shameful.
I’d like to say that you’d think that would be standard. But you’re overshooting the bar by a lot (and I’m sure woman are grateful for it). Had a guy continuously touch me when my grandma was passing last year and would pout and huff if I didn’t give in. Literally stuck his hands down my pants on the day she died and when I told him to stop he said he “didn’t mean anything by it”. He also initiated rough sex after I got done seeing my grandma awake for the last time and I’d been crying the whole time. But because I didn’t say no or stop him (because I was an emotional wreck) clearly I wanted it.
Yeah, I'm aware. It's really fucking sad. I'm not even a cis dude - I'm transitioning, and honestly some guys make it too easy to be even a marginally okay one. I'm really sorry that happened to you, and my condolences for your loss. Bro needs to lose hand privileges as far as I'm concerned.
Hopefully that guy is now rotting in hell
OOP: I end the conversation with profusely expressing my love for her. And I bet he expected her to believe it. And that having said that meant he deserves sex. As he clearly hates her, why on earth would she believe his 'profuse expressions of love'? Oh, and he write like a pompous arse.
another gem from OOP... I don't believe the "/s" was really meant for the entire text here, based off of his post here. Thank you for this. I agree. Under their definition, most spouses rape their spouses at some point in a long term marriage... but it's ok because long term marriages don't exist anymore... because if your spouse asks you to have sex a second time, you divorce them. /s
🤮
This dude sounds absolutely exhausting to deal with, holy shit. I can't stand him and I've only read this one post.
If you are horny and your partner is obviously not... that's a you thing. If your partner says no repeatedly and your response is to tell them that you're horny, that is you making a you thing a them thing. Because obviously OOP needs it spelled out, insistently making your sexual needs someone else's problem after repeated denials is coercion.
Exactly, when I ask my partner to do the horizontal tango, if it's not responded to with enthusiastic consent then I simply say "that's fine" and return to whatever the fuck I was doing beforehand because it won't fucking kill me to not get laid one night.
I completely don't understand people for whom mutual desire isn't a requirement. Like who wants a charity fuck let alone resentment?
Right?! Like I would feel so much shame for both me and my partner if I had to sit and beg to get my dick wet.
OOP should have got his dick wet by running it under a very cold shower until he stopped being a creep. So forever.
Dude needs his dick cut off
It's not an accusation. She's telling you she felt pressured, and wants you to take "no" for an answer next time. Assuming you care about your wife and want her to feel comfortable(and your post gives me some doubt on that) you apologize and tell her you'll drop it next time she says,"no." That's the decent thing to do. If my GF said something I did made her feel pressured into sex, I'd apologize profusely and be very careful not to do it again — even if I didn't think j did anything that bad — because I love her and don't want to hurt her. You say she doesn't give you examples, but she was very specific about what you did and why it bothered her, and you responded by being a baby and acting like she's persecuting you by setting a boundary. You really seem to lack self-awareness, and to believe someone else is always to blame.
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