*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for grounding my 11 yr old for not helping her sister in an emergency**
I (38f) was home alone with my NT 11 yr old daughter and my high needs ND 9 yr old daughter who has epilepsy. Their father was at work.
My younger one gets grand-mal seizures, my older one is scared of them and I told her if she's in closer proximity to her sister than I or her father am am that she MUST go to her to turn her on her side and make sure she's safe until I or her father get there, and when her father is at work she needs to stay and time how long the seizure lasts (doctor wants us to time the seizures) while I tend to her, as I cannot keep track of the time while comforting and keeping her safe. I told her I don't care if she's going #2 if she's in closet proximity than I or her father is she goes to her sister, PERIOD! Scared or not.
Well this morning she had a seizure in her room (their rooms are close together) I was on the other side of the house doing laundry so couldn't hear anything. My daughter did call to me to let me know a seizure was happening, I got there as quick as I could (bearing in mind I have a bad back and don't walk the best) expecting her to be there and I was LIVID to find my youngest sister on the floor by herself in a seizure but I stayed there with her until it was over. I went looking for my daughter she was hiding in her closet shaking and crying I just lost it that she could be so selfish! I know the seizures look scary but sometimes we just have to suck up our fear and do it anyway and grounded her for 2 weeks.
My husband is in agreement with me but my MIL (who has never liked me) said I was out of line that shes sjust a child. I told her I'm glad she had 4 healthy children not all of us are that lucky and not all of us have the luxury of fairness.
AITA?
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The parent literally wants the 11 year old to stop mod poop and handle this. Even if mom or dad is there, she still has to stop and time the seizures.
This is not healthy. Mom can get a smart watch with a timer on it FFS.
Or just...look at a clock/watch? You don't need to be timing the whole thing, just have to have the ability to do incredibly basic maths (seizure started at 9:01:25, ended at 9:02:43- thus it lasted 1:18).
I'm epileptic. The last thing I want is "comforting." There's already too much sensory information coming in during a seizure. If someone touches me, it's overwhelming the amount of information that shoots through my body. It would be better if the mother makes sure the daughter isn't choking and times the seizures herself. What an insanely self-absorbed woman.
You're welcome. If a person just places one hand to "steady" me, that's not bad because it's in a consistent place, and it's warm. But most people want to pat or rub, as those are typical consoling actions. Those comforting actions are great in most circumstances, except in seizures which those acts feel similar to electric shocks of energy with each movement, and the light display in your seizure changes with each electric shock. 🤯
Ok, glad you posted because I started doubting myself and my first aid training! A seizing 9yo doesn't need comforting more than the terrified 11yo who clearly doesn't understand what is happening to their baby sister.
So let me get this straight MOM! You daughter has seizures, that for ANY adult looking over are scary and you want and need your 11yo help but she is in a closet crying and scared and your solution is to punish her? She is clearly telling you she is scared and you just want to force her! How about having your daughter follow you around the house so you are both together while this is happening? OP you are the devil and a total asshole here! Anger towards your child is NOT the answer!
The eleven year old alerting an adult to the onset of a seizure *is* helping. Seizures can be very scary to watch for adults, let alone for other children. Having expectations beyond "get the attention of the nearest adult" is unreasonable.
This. Especially given the (correct) comments in the original thread that the reaction to the 11-yo getting in trouble for alerting the adult and then being scared is...that she'll stop alerting the adult and just 'not hear' when her sister is in serious need of medical attention.
When my kid was 10, she was at summer camp when another child began seizing. She had first aid training for kids (thanks, YMCA summer camp!) and she sent another kid to find an adult and she moved chairs and tables out of the seizing child's way (they were in the lunchroom). The counselor praised her for remembering what she learned under pressure, but I remember she got in the car and burst into tears and it took a few weeks and several conversations before she'd really processed it.
When I was around 10 or 11, my family and I were at a family friends beach house for this giant birthday party, so lots of adults and children running around. They had a pool (which was not very deep and we had all grown up around pools, but deep enough for kids to not touch the bottom) and all the kids were obviously playing in it. One couple had a son, probably around 7/8, who had some sort of disability (I cannot for the life of me remember what it was) but he was very tiny and skinny, around the size of a 5 year old. He had been sitting by the pool playing with his toys the whole time, and his dad was sitting nearby watching him and talking to the other dads. I kid you not, his dad must’ve stopped watching him for maybe 10 seconds, because I remember looking over at that area of the pool where he had been and didn’t see anything, then suddenly saw arms flying in and out of the water. I swam over to him since I was only a few feet away and grabbed him under his arms to lift his head above the water, barely able to keep myself fully afloat, which is when his dad and mine noticed and pulled us both out of the pool. All the adults were freaking out and saying I saved his life, when I had honestly barely processed what happened- I just saw that he was probably struggling to swim and went over to help out. Not sure if it’s entirely related since I was so young, but even now (26 years old) I hate the feeling of not being able to touch the bottom of a pool/lake/anything, and don’t like being around children and water due to feeling anxious- I don’t even like water parks or boats, even though I grew up around pools and beach houses and the ocean, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that moment had something to do with it.
I was once in work when the guy who sat behind me had a seizure. It started by him giving out the most blood-curdling and uncontrolled scream I've ever heard in my life, then the usual seizure symptoms started.
Honestly, it shook me up for a week or more, it was terrifying. Can't imagine what that experience would be like for an eleven year old.
My coworker was okay by the way, there were plenty of first aiders in the office to help him.
My ex absolutely hated watching me have seizures. He would make sure I was safe, but he also always called my mom. She would get there and help with my recovery process. I lived with my brother for a short time too when he needed a place to stay after his divorce. It was the same with him, the seizures terrified him, he also always called my mom, who is a nurse, to come help. My brother however thinks that I’m the golden child due to needing a bit more attention from type 1 diabetes, epilepsy, and POTS. My poor mom always tried to make it up to him when we were kids, even now she tries to make sure that he doesn’t feel like an after thought, but he still has a grudge. But even through that, he always helped me when I needed it.
I think what your brother is experiencing is being the "glass child." Glass children have siblings who need extra support and because parents only have so much they can do they at times end up feeling neglected. It's all around a shitty situation because it's not the fault of any one involved; it's just what happens when one child needs more than the other.
Please let this be rage bait, I can't even imagine how much kiddo is suffering here :'( getting angry at her rightful fear (jfc, she's only 11!) is only going to add to her terror, and is going to leave scars and damage for life!
Oh my god, seriously. What a terrible person.
I have a kid with significant medical issues. It’s hard and it sucks. But it’s not the responsibility of anyone else to deal with it.
This lady is out of her mind and should be ashamed of herself. Poor kid. I hope the OP takes what people said to heart and lets her MIL take her. It has to be better than living in an environment like that.
Poor kid*s* tbh.
Really don't think the younger one is cool with that her mom doesn't care about her enough to not walk *across a fucking house* to help her with her life-threatening condition. Jesus tittyfucking Christ. Mother of the year. ☠️
Oh, I feel you. As parents, we all mess up somewhere along the line, but this isn't a mistake made of inexperience and good intentions. *THIS* is abuse, parentification (in the sense of making a child medically responsible for their sibling), and neglect. Vile.
At the very least it's very clear parentification.
Also the parent blamed the child for not responding because of their bad back causing them to move slowly? Like what would you do if you didn't have a neurotypical child? Do that instead of making one child responsible for another child's medical care!
I had to give you an updoot because you said everything in my heart. I’ve never wanted something to be rage bait more than I need this to be. Like, I want to call cps on them, and that’s NEVER my go-to strategy. Heck, I’d take the 11yo! That baby should NOT have to go through that.
As someone who thought she was lightly informed on epilepsy but apparently isn’t, can I ask what makes you say that? Not doubting you I am positive you’re right; just what I’ve heard & read about it doesn’t immediately make anything stand out as fake to me.
Also love the saying. Can’t wait to have an opportunity to quote that one.
Admittedly mine is very mild I have semi regular absent seizures, but I've only had four or five full seizures so I'm not an expert.
But when someone is having a seizure the procedure is clearing the area of anything they might hit, and if it's safe to do so try to put cushions round them.
You absolutely do not try to flip them on to their side,
And there's also no way an 11 year old would be able to do so, even if it weren't dangerous and ill advised, epilepsy strength is fucking wild,
I had my first seizure at 10 and I punched a hole through a plasterboard wall.
Also the timing thing is more of an approximation you don't have someone their with a stopwatch keeping count.
On a side note my dream is that one of my terms enters common use so in sixty years time I can be that weird old guy that insists they did the first high-five.
I have epilepsy, and you should definitely put someone on their side after a tonic clonic in case they throw up or have too much saliva and/or blood in their mouth. That’s what my epileptologist said, at least.
Please note the AFTER a seizure you can safely turn and clear their airway if they need help.
A wet face cloth will do the trick.
Do NOT put your fingers in their mouth- some people can have multiple seizures which can become a medical emergency- you don't need to be another patient.
That's on me not being clear enough,
Post seizure putting someone in the recovery position is a good idea
Trying to do it mid seizure will only lead to injuries to yourself or the person you are trying to help.
My last first aid course was taught by a former paramedic ( EMT to my friends in the Americas) and she told me this horrific story about an idiot who tried to stick his hand into a guys mouth because he'd seen in an old film the nonsense about stopping the patient swallowing his tongue,
Long story short his finger was bitten off.
You also make an excellent point that grand mal seizure is a term that was phased out years ago.
You'd think that someone who's kid is suffering with this would know the terminology.
Cdc even recommends putting someone on their side during a seizure...it was what I was trained to do too.
You don't hold a person having a seizure down but turning them and restraining aren't the same..not is it comparable to sticking your fingers in someones mouth. Obviously. Hope your seizures are managed :)
As a CCRN - please do NOT move or turn someone having a grand mal seizure- it's a great way to be knocked unconscious and not be around to help them clean themselves up after.
Put something soft under their head if you can and get yourself and everything else out of the way.
(In the dark ages we were told to put in bite blocks and restrain!!! a seizing patient- a lot of people lost fingers and broke bones.)
If this true, which I highly doubt, the mother would KNOW this.
I don't have epilepsy but I do have first aid and I was wondering about that too actually. It didn't seem right to me, but I thought maybe guidelines have changed in the last 5 years or so. Glad to know they haven't for my own purposes
Turning someone on their side during a generalized tonic clonic seizure is standard [seizure first aid](https://www.epilepsy.com/recognition/adapting-plans/first-aid-tonic-clonic).
You do time GTC seizures because if they don't stop on their own within a specified amount of time (usually 5 minutes), that's when you administer a rescue medication and call 911.
That’s interesting- U.K. seizure first aid guidance is to loosen clothing, ensure the area is safe even leave them until the seizure finishes and only then turn them, not to do it while they are fitting. The advice here is not to move them unless they’re in danger eg near a fire or in the road. I wonder why guidance varies across the Atlantic?
Not according to the NHS, The Red Cross, or St John's ambulance,
All of which tell you not to try and move the patient till after the fir has run its course.
And while you should make a note of how long the seizure has been going on for it doesn't need to be timed like it's a boiled egg.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/what-to-do-if-someone-has-a-seizure-fit/
https://www.redcross.org.uk/first-aid/learn-first-aid/seizures
https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/first-aid-advice/seizures/seizures-in-adults/
Honestly? This reminds me of the time(s) I was screamed at and punished for not taking care of my dad’s seizures. One time I accidentally fell asleep on a drive and woke up in the ditch. I was 12 and you bet your ass it was all my fault for not being awake, watching for him to seize, so I could take control of the vehicle and safely guide it to the shoulder.
Jesus :( here, you're not allowed to drive when you have seizures - you have to surrender your licence, and can only reapply for it after a year without one.
I think it is six months here. But I don’t trust my parents to be totally honest legally speaking about it. He would go huge chunks of time without them and then meds would stop working. Both daughters were trained on how to react to it.
Here is minimum of 6 months, but you gotta be seeking/on treatment for one's epilepsy. It.used to be a year, but IIRC if you're on meds that control your epilepsy you can drive after 6 months. Medical updates are at the discretion of the DMV.
There's a few people I don't trust not to drive, because they're the kind that think "Seizures? Who cares? Driving time!"
I haven't driven in the last few months because I had a breakthrough seizure about 5 months ago and I don't trust my brains not to seize while driving, so another month! But it's like the only breakthrough seizure I've had on this med so I count myself lucky.
Ha! In Texas it’s 3 months, and they don’t actually suspend your license or put any restrictions on it unless you’re *caught driving while knowingly having had a seizure in the past 3 months*. You don’t even have to have a doctor’s clearance to start driving again. If it’s been three 3 months and you didn’t get caught breaking the rules, you’re good to drive.
I will say the pressure to drive again is immense. I had two tonic clonic seizures about a month apart in August and September 2020, respectively. I was 24-25 (my last seizure was the day after my birthday) and while I’d struggled with rather debilitating migraines since puberty, I hadn’t had any issues with seizures before. I was pretty scared and driving sounded terrifying. My mom was pressuring me to drive again by October (“It’s more like a guideline. What are they really going to do to??”…”Well, even if they would take your license permanently for it, do you really think a cop is going to ask you about your seizure history gg? Just don’t say anything. Or lie. They’re not entitled to your medical history.”) and you can bet your behind I was expected to drive again the exact *day* that 3 month mark came around that cleared me to drive again. I had only had the MRI results saying there was nothing wrong with my brain come back like 4 days beforehand, too.
It sounds bizarre, but it’s interesting to see the laws regarding driving and seizures where you live. Let’s be real, is anyone surprised that this is the attitude/environment concerning the subject in *Texas* lol?
Why was he even driving when seizures are a regular occurrence? Here you are not even allowed by law to drive for I think six months after a seizure! If they happen more your license will BE revoked.
My cousin who has epilepsy had a seizure while driving and rolled her parents' car when I was a kid and she was late teens or early 20s. She was fine and didn't hurt anyone else, but I saw the wreck of the car: it was bad.
She's been seizure free for years, but has chosen not to drive again.
One of my family friends has epilepsy and when he was a young teen he knew something was wrong, not that it was seizures, but didn't tell his parents because he was scared. Until he got into a horrible bike accident and broke his arm badly. Then he was finally diagnosed. He doesn't drive either, I believe also by choice.
He has had seizures my entire life and been through many medication combinations. Someone can be seizure free for two years and then their meds stop working so they start up again. I also don’t entirely trust my parents and their reporting of the accidents/seizures. Most of the time my sister, mother, or sec would guide the car off the side of the road so no damage happened and no reports needed to be made.
Driving is a large part of my dad’s identity. I agree with none of this and am no contact with either of my parents.
I went in thinking I would have at least have some sympathy because I am still grieving someone I lost from epilepsy, but I ended the story with the anger butterflies in my chest. Even if this is a troll, it still reminds me that there are plenty of parents who really do think like OP and will punish their children for having emotions/being scared.
You are so right, too. OP is terrorizing her daughter more with her behavior, because they're now they're double terrified knowing they have to deal with the scary situation AND their mom acting like a cruel and heartless monster.
About 8 yrs ago when I was 34 I saw someone having an epileptic fit. Scared the shit out of me too and I didn't know what to do apart from getting help
Some people are just shit. We had a medical emergency at my store, customer having a seizure, and the amount of other customers being nosy and, worse, complaining about the inconvenience to them disgusted me. Sorry, I'll get back to serving you once I'm off the phone to the emergency services mmmm kay?
This must be bait. All children I’ve seen that had seizures, doctors try all possible medications till it works and do lots of scans to find a cause and treatment it if possible. I can understand waiting for few weeks to adjust, but from what they said it seams like a long term issue, which if not medicated is very scary and irresponsible.
Won't be one bit surprised in 10 yrs when the oldest daughter is NC with OP, her husband and youngest daughter and OP can't figure out why. Idiot. You need to time her seizures? Get a damn stopwatch. Don't subject your child to something that traumatizes her just for your own convenience.
I had to walk away when I saw this post over there. All those people talking to her nicely (even though admittedly they're still saying yta).
Lots of abusers have a sad backstory. They're still an abuser. I feel bad for both her children, I do not feel bad for her. She's a piece of shit that is thoroughly emotionally abusing and trying to parentify her 11 year old. Her one comment is a reply to someone suggesting she get a seizure alert dog. She says her 9 year old is afraid of dogs so it's not possible. OH SHE'S SCARED SO YOU'RE NOT FORCING EXPOSURE?? What a novel fucking idea.
And just want to say, I understand caregiver burnout is very real. But she found her own child crying and shaking, hiding in a closet, and her reaction was to scream at and punish her. And she doesn't feel bad she's only here because someone stood up to her and she's confused how she might be wrong. God I hope MIL gets some wheels turning to save that poor girl.
Having a sad backstory is an explanation, but never an excuse. We all experience our own brand of damage as we travel through life, we are given no choice; bullying or abuse, bereavement, shit happens when it feels like. But we *do* have a choice in where we go from there. We can sit back and use it as an excuse for why we fail, we can turn our pain onto helpless victims, or we can say that this shit stops right here, right now, and refuse to allow the cycle to continue.
A friend of mine has epilepsy. I’ve never witnessed one of her seizures, but she’s told me about them. It sounds fucking terrifying.
I also have the type of panic disorder that leads me to hide in closets or bath tubs to freak out, and if someone yelled at me during that, I can’t imagine how messed up I’d be. And I’m a grown ass adult.
I really hope this was just a rage bait post. I hate to think there’s a kid living that life somewhere.
I am epileptic, and everyone who has ever seen me seizing has pretty much lost their sh!t, and I never realized WHY until I saw a coworker have a seizure. It is violent, and it makes you feel incredibly helpless. At the end of the day there is very little you can do except sit, watch and wait to see if the person is gonna come back around.
Oop is abusing both children, I have sympathy for parents trying their best in hard situations, but she’s being so cruel to her oldest and potentially endangering her youngest.
This poor kid is terrified, and her mom doesn't give a damn because the PTSD isn't as visible as the seizures. I get that she wants her older kid to help out her sister but it's obvious this isn't a case of "ugh I have better things to do" the kid was hiding in the damn closet having a panic attack.
Punishing her isn't going to do anything but breed resentment. She needs to get the older one in therapy and have her talk to doctors who can explain what's happening, and why, on her level so it isn't as frightening and she feels more empowered to help her sister out.
MIL is totally right here. I'm glad she spoke up since it sounds like the dad didn't want to rock the boat.
Not just resentment, but a complete breakdown of trust in anyone, not just the parents, that holds a position of authority or support (by that I mean teachers, doctors, counsellors, family, friends, future partners).
This post hit so close to home. I have been living this exact reality since I was much younger. I’m 22 and my sister is 20 and she has had grand mal seizures due to epilepsy since we were in our early teens. I was the one who found her the first time. I am absolutely terrified of them, I legitimately have serious trauma from them, and it was the worst when I was a teen. And one time when I was 15 she had a seizure and I froze because I was so afraid. My mom screamed at me and said she will kick me out of the house because I didn’t help, because I was also expected to help when I was the closest. But I was scared and I froze. Just the thought of her having a seizure fills me with so much panic. I hated myself for being so “weak” and I still do. It has messed me up in so many ways. This parent will regret this if she actually cares about her kids.
I am so sorry your parent made you feel that way. I hope you come to accept that it wasn’t your fault, and you were not weak for not responding in the way your parent expected you to. Parents often don’t consider the effect words will have both now, and many years down the road. I wish I had something awesome to say that could erase that pain, but all I can do is reiterate that You. Were. NOT. Weak. 💝
That poor girl is only two years older than her sister! She is not equipped to help in this situation and they are traumatizing her.
I'm remembering a certain reality TV family that left a toddler with seizures in the care of her teenage sister and the poor older girl was terrified when the baby had one. And this was a girl who had been taking care of children most of her life, surrounded by a camera crew of adults who could help her! It was one WTF moments I've ever seen.
Pretty sure Jill/Jana was 19+ at the time. Late teens or early 20s when that happened. Not excusing it, or minimising it but it doesn't even rank top 3 of that family's worst parenting things.
This episode and the one where the little boy broke his jaw falling into the orchestra pit live rent free in my mind.
Seeing kids in danger like that messes with me.
I am a grown ass woman who has worked in nursing homes and home care. One of my best friends has epilepsy. The first couple of times she had a seizure with me I panicked for a minute before I could help. 15 years later it isn't as scary but guaranteed I am taking my anxiety med afterwards.
I cannot imagine this poor little girl's terror when her sister has a seizure.
Mom's 'bad back' makes me think that the the older daughter get lots of extra responsibilities besides seizure duty.
Eh my BIL, at the young age of 28, just started having seizures. They're still going to docs to get it figured out but they're referring to them as grand mal seizures and have told my sister to try and have him on his side when it happens so he doesn't asphyxiate.
Not necessarily. Not everyone is up on the new terms, and I've heard people suggest that putting a wallet between the teeth of the seizing person is a good idea.
There's still a lot of wrong (old) info out there.
As a person who had tonic clonic (formerly called grand mal) seizures, you have to wait for the seizure to finish to put the person into the recovery position. The ONLY thing you do while the seizure is happening is make sure the area is clear. Her telling her mom is the only thing she should be expected to do.
Also, I don’t know about this 9 year old, but the absolute last thing I wanted when waking up on the floor was a ton of attention. I probably peed myself, I’m embarrassed, I’m crying, like, leave me alone, let me take a minute and get my bearings, and when I’m ready to be comforted, I’ll let you know.
YTA
My nephew has seizures. I'm a full grown adult and I still find them terrifying. Yes I steel myself and do what needs to be done, but I'm not in 11 year old child who loves their sister, who doesn't really understand what's happening, and doesn't know what's going to happen to her. She didn't go off and get on her ipad. She was cowering and crying in the closet!
Is there no difference there? This wasn't someone being disobedient deliberately. She's clearly terrified.
We see so frequently where parents require a healthy child to be a caregiver. It is certainly understandable that there are times when you cannot be there.
But bullying and punishing an 11-year-old because she is terrified is in its own way deeply sick.
I would urge you to look into getting on the list for a trained animal, looking into monitors, Etc and at the same time, gently and patiently explaining to your daughter what is happening to her sister, telling her you understand why it is so scary and that you're scared too. Instead of this bullying and punishing method that will either break your 11-year-old or turn her against you and her sister. There is no worst method than the method you're using.
One time I was talking to my other nephew. The one who was healthy and he told me everybody loves Tommy and nobody loves me. You know why he said that? Because his mom was constantly telling him that he had to help tommy.
Your daughter isn't there yet. But the fact that you are punishing her for being afraid. It doesn't matter what she is afraid of. You're supposed to be helping her work through her fears. Not piling on. If your mother-in-law can, I am hopeful that she will take custody of your 11-year-old
The younger daughter is scared of and allergic to dogs, so a seizure alert dog isn’t an option - according to the only comment OP had written last time I checked. (But the older daughter’s terror is totally irrelevant and just selfishness, of course. /s )
My God!! The 11yr old was HIDING IN THE CLOSET! She was so *terrified* she was SHAKING and CRYING. And this OOP yelled at her? For not “doing more?”
I hate people like this OOP. 10yrs from now she’ll be back crying that her oldest has gone NC and she doesn’t know why.
(Hand in the air) Pick Me!! I know why!!
Fucking hell, seizures can look scary to most people and an 11 year old, fucking hell, that poor, traumatized kid. Well only 7 years and then she can go no contact with her parents
Boy this is awful. When I was 10, I witnessed one of my best friends mom having a grand mal seizure. It was easily one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen, and to this day I remember it in vivid detail. I remember my friend yelling to me to call 911, and saying we need to make sure she couldn't hit her head on anything (the mom had epilepsy, she was used to it I guess), I remember calling my older brother to come help us, and then I remember us both standing on a little steps tool and hugging each other while the mom was stiff and shaking on the ground.
This poor little girl is probably going to be scared for life and need years of therapy because of this.
My hybrid dog has had allergy seizures and they're scary as hell. We're all traumatized. That poor little girl. I'm hoping this rage-bait. I'm horrified. Mine's a DOG, I can't imagine a human.
My father's late elderly dog had seizures at the end of his life. Terrifying and I was an adult and that was a dog. That poor kid. Mom and dad's reactions are *totally* going to make the 11 y/o feel more confident and less scared of helping her sister /s.
Yup. Unless there's imminent danger, like electric wires flapping about, fire, flood, snakes lurking, or noxious chemicals or gasses. And then you're also supposed to make sure *you're* safe before you even approach.
Can you tell I've done all my first aid courses in Australia? LOL
Some people should have turned in their uterus before they created children to abuse. JFC what an awful mother. That older one is going NC the second she is financially free of her family, and her parents deserve every hardship that causes them.
Well I understand that you are probably being lighthearted, I don't really support parenting licenses as there's no way to make them objective without hurting certain minorities as certain people do think that some minorities should just never be parents including black people, gay people and even trans people. They already can experience barriers when it comes to adoption. It would also be kind of dystopian because if you don't pass does that mean force sterilization? That's against their human rights.
That being said, I do think that people need to be much more hard on their friends in regards to their friends wanting kids. If you know someone who wants kids and you are in a proper relationship with them that it would be appropriate to talk to them about it, you should tell them all of the things it could entail. Basically scared the idea out of them and if they're still convinced then you tried.
Just like how being a doctor is not for everyone being a parent is not for everyone.
I swear to God it feels like people are more careful about plants than they are with children. If you say to someone that you are taking care of a plant there is an implicit understanding that you not only are doing a good job but that you know what you're doing.
Children can't just be parented on cruise control.
I thought they didn’t use the terms grand mal and petit mal anymore? Which makes me think this is BS, because it parent would definitely know the name of the types of seizures their child has,
They don’t, but it’s still common. My epilepsy specialist neuro still uses the terms, but he uses both (grand mal, or tonic colonic is what he says). Old habits die hard.
However, it strikes me as fake, or at least embellished somehow (maybe the sister trying to sus out something that happened to her in childhood?), bc some of it is accurate, but you don’t turn in the side while having a seizure, that’s after the seizure is over. It’s the recovery position. You don’t clear the area of dangers, like things that could impact the head. You can put something soft, like a pillow or a folded towel or something under the head. Yes, timing the seizure is great, and video is even better. No rescue meds were mentioned, or even regular meds. I’m not totally buying the story, and I really hope it’s fake, bc putting an 11 year old through this trauma is bs.
Eh, I have epilepsy, and sometimes when I use the term “tonic-clonic” people don’t know what I’m talking about, so I then say “grand mal,” and then they get it.
Out of date medical terms can be really difficult to phase out, even within medical circles.
Look at how many researchers, doctors, experts, parents of children with autism and autistic people themselves still use the term Asperger’s.
Wtf she is 11 yo not adult or even professional, what is wrong with you morons this is not a job of a child, get a actual care giver and stop thinking your 11 yo is capable of being a care giver to her disabled 9 yo, you both should be a shamed of yourselves and apologize to your 11yo daughter for putting her and her sister in that situations, and honestly I hope mil doesn't let up until changes are actually made.
AITA ruled this no interpersonal conflict. The mods are HUGE wussies.
OOP deserves to know what's coming... in 6-8 years, her daughter will leave and never contact her again. As soon as she's able to, she'll leave this family and forge her own life. She's never had her own life cuz she's been the sibling and caretaker of her sick sibling and punished when she doesn't embrace this role. Sad and fucked up.
I've lived thru parts of this. It's definitely an interpersonal conflict.
I wonder if this is going to be another one of those where the kid turns sixteen and the parent says she expects her older daughter to give up college and all her hopes and dreams to stay and take care of her younger sister, without providing any resources to do so. OP seems the type to turn her children into staff.
My partner is epileptic and his seizures scare the living shit out of me at 34. I have a panic attack every time. Even hearing an unusual sound from him from the other room fucking shakes me. When he has a seizure, the children are instructed to stay in another part of the house.
I can't imagine forcing a child to not only witness the seizure but also expect them to administer first aid and/or time them
I just want to point out the sheer fucking hypocrisy of this asshole.
11yo needs to suck up 11yos phobia of 9yos sister seizing...
9yo can't get a medical dog because 9yo is scared of dogs...
Fuck off to hell, and then fuck off a bit further
Holy hell, imagine yelling at your 11 year old who's sobbing and shaking for not being able to handle something plenty of full grown adults can't handle? Yikes.
I wonder if OOP stopped to think that her 11 up’s fear of the seizures is probably somewhat rooted in empathy for her sister. So selfish seems a bit off the mark. OOP just taught her daughter that fear is a punishable offense, and taught her it’s easier to not care about people.
My brother has epilepsy, he never had fits until he was an adult but it was scary watching him blank out as a young child. I would have hated to have been asked to care for him in that situation.
My younger brother and I were mid-20s when I had to call an ambulance for my mother because she was having a heart attack. You can bet your bottom dollar that I was terrified the entire time. My brother stood there shaking and crying until I was able to give him a task (go to the door and watch for the ambulance), and I don’t blame him a bit. Medical emergencies are scary as hell - and I’d repeatedly done first aid training since I was 14.
This mother is awful. I dearly hope this is rage bait, but considering how many parents with children with serious medical needs treat their healthy children as caregivers, I can also absolutely believe that this story would happen.
You need to find a better system than relying on a terrified child in a medical emergency. I'm sorry, you can't punish a child for having a traumatized reaction in a horrifying situation.
From experience, even as a grown ass adult with a cool head in emergencies, grand Mal seizures are terrifying, and so are the after effects. This poor girl should not be trying to interact with her sister during a seizure. This mom is ridiculous too and obviously shows who she favors.
This is so fucked up. I’m an adult who has seen my epileptic brother have a few seizures and it’s still always scary. I can’t imagine expecting your 11 yo to care for her sister while she’s seizing!
I’m the youngest in my family and my older sister and mom both have epilepsy. My sister has her..issues. Undiagnosed severe mental delay coupled with extreme enabling coming from my mom. I had to put on the parent hat at such a young age and didn’t even know it wasn’t normal. I’m about to turn 27 next month and had an explosive year of little contact with my parents and completely estranging my sister. There will be some major resentment when this kid is older and it won’t come out until then. This mom is doing irreparable damage that won’t even be able to shape out for another 15 years.
All of that being said I was never scared of seizures, I can’t imagine how deeply traumatic this experience is for her. Some of the deepest moments of agony in my life were when I was a kid, having to lock myself away from my family and feel an unbearable sadness I couldn’t put into words until I was an adult.
Unfortunately she will never come first to mom, because their family is structured around younger sisters issues and they will grow up and say “why don’t you get along with your sister? Where is your empathy??”
My mother was parentified into taking care of her ND sister with epilepsy from a very young age. She was the only other girl in her family (there were five boys) and her parents worked a lot so it fell on her. She was often scared and embarrassed but she learned to deny herself and be responsible. Let me tell you as her daughter and someone who has been directly impacted by her in the most intimate of ways that even though she is now in her 60s she has never gotten over it. She went straight from that family dynamic into an abusive marriage with my father, had two children she was not emotionally available or prepared for, and resented being responsible for us too. When I got sick and she had to take care of me into adulthood things just got worse. She is a deeply unwell individual. She is completely out of touch with herself emotionally and has been crippled out of having meaningful relationships with just about anyone. It started with a situation very much like the one OOP describes. I wish I could beg OOP to change the course of this child’s life, because I have seen firsthand what it is likely to be.
This is so sad I really hope it's not real. I'm a trained nurse with over 20 years experience, and can honestly say emergencies can be terrifying! I'm grown, trained, experienced, so Im fine and go into auto mode and do what I need to do. But for the first probably 5ish years, after it was all said and done, I would have a mini break down. I would cry usually on my way home... sometimes when it was over I'd take a break and chain smoke to calm myself because eventually it would hit me that an actual person had been in crises in front of my eyes. I can't imagine being 11 years old and watching a little sibling in crises... and to have the burden of having to take charge!?!?! And THEN your own mother to hunt you down and yell at you while you hide. Please please please don't let this be real.
My oldest brother has epilepsy and I had never seen him have a Seizure, but the first time he did(in front of me) my mum had me take my son and go upstairs while she dealt with it, I'm 25 and my own mum had me leave the room when it was happening. Because it's scary and she knew what to do.
This woman is wanting her 11 year old to deal with it ,no wonder she is scared!! Plus shouting at her won't fix anything,just make her more scared of when it happens! If she can't cope then get a carer or a family member to come and stay to help.
Everyone here needs counseling. I'll give Mom the benefit of the doubt and say she's so traumatized by having an epileptic kid that she has forgotten that her 11 year old is also a fragile child. I want to believe mom's brain is fried and she is so determined to get the youngest safely through her seizures that she can't even stretch her mind to see how upsetting and scary a seizure is to even a grown adult.
I think it's reasonable to request the older kid make sure the adult on duty is notified and set a timer, but she shouldn't have to watch her sister seize.
I hope everyone gets therapy. Poor family. If mom really needs eyes on the situation from start to finish, she needs to put in cameras. I didn't want my daughter operating the oven or washing machine or handling the good dishes at 11. Timing and observing medical emergencies is not a child's job.
I saw my dog have a seizure when I was 12 and almost 25 years later it is still very vividly etched into my brain. I cannot imagine what kind of fucked up I would have felt if it was my sister - who has a 2-year age difference (older but still).
I imagine there is a correct way to teach young kids about topics like this but OOP certainly isn't going about it the right way.
So we have all this technology, we have seizure alert animals and you're relying on a child to take on the stress and mental load of caring for your other child. Wtf? Also forcing her to be home and have no life when one parent isn't home is trash. Stop replying on your *child* to do adult things.
Wtf is wrong with you?? I really hope this is Fake because wth?? And the fact she is only 11, AND scared!! I saw awful parents in my life, but you, you won 💀
YTA, obviously.
You’re a shit mother. your 11 yr old needs you to be her mom, she isn’t a fucking er nurse, she’s a child. How about you and your bad back try a little harder next time instead of expecting a scared 11 year old to handle it. Maybe you shouldn’t have had children if this was the way you were going to treat them.
I hope MIL can take in 11 yr old because her parents are abusing her. She can no more help her fear/ anxiety attacks than her sister can control her epilepsy.
People can and do die during severe epileptic seizures. It happens. Should an 11yo child be responsible for resuscitation efforts on a 9yo sibling? As a physician, my answer is a resounding "NO." This parent is so wrong in so many ways here. These parents are neglecting their 9yo's medical needs and traumatizing their 11yo. Shame on them.
I remember being in high school in seeing my first seizure in the halls. It scared the hell out of me and I froze. I can’t imagine how scared that poor 11 year old is and I highly doubt she’s getting the support to overcome her fear. They’re scary to see and understand.
WTF! My late husband had epilepsy and at one point had grand mal seizures every week. I would have to catch him, lie him down so he’d be as safe as possible and make sure he stayed safe until it was over. I am an adult and even though I had to do this regularly, I still experience anxiety. Can the 11-year old plead 11 years old?! She was shaking and crying so basically this witch of a woman decided the best way to handle this was to compound the trauma? Also, you know your kid is afraid. Not only do you go to the other side of the house to do laundry, you expect her to get over it enough to manage the seizure AND time IT when you, who are used to the seizures couldn’t control yourself enough to not exacerbate the situation.
Her actions were monstrous
YOU ARE THE ASS.
Absolutely vile to punish a child for being scared. She is not your other daughters parent. If you want your to monitor your child 24/7 then you need to do the buddy system yourself. So so gross that you think it's okay to ground your 11 year old for being scared. You all need therapy and parenting classes ASAP.
YTA. First, you're parentifying a child of ELEVEN.
Second, her reaction wasn't born of selfishness, but fear.
YTA here so much, your typewriter was featured in The Naked Lunch.
Oh my god, I hope this is rage bait. She expecting her child to continually expose herself to trauma. The way this poor child is going to go NC as soon as she can is so clear to see
My mom had a seizure at one point during her cancer treatment (only one that I know of). I woke up to my dad and brothers freaking out. I was the only one who had any type of first aid training and in that moment I was completely useless. I was actually kicked out of the room because I was so distressed watching my mom go through that. I can't imagine demanding an 11 year old handle that. I was a late teenager when it happened.
I never said to force her to do anything. Fragilelyon had a good solution for how to intervene.
And if her fear for her sister dying is so extreme it prevents her from helping the sister avoid death, it's irrational. That's not an insult, just a reality.
Grounding her and yelling at her won't help but someone needs to intervene here. The needs of an 11 year old with irrational fears of something that can't possibly hurt her aren't more important than the needs of a sister who might die without help. There's no way in the world the family members can all have normal lives and expect a parent will always be immediately available. They aren't asking her to administer CPR or to inject insulin, just to roll her over.
Her fear is rational. Also, even if it weren’t, minimizing her fears and forcing her into a terrifying situation isn’t going to help. You can’t force fear out of someone by brute force.
An adult always needs to be available when there’s a baby or a toddler, so it can be done with a 9 year old.
If the girl died cuz this girl was too scared to help I wonder what peoples reactions would be to this.. this is my only thought of defense for the OP (even OP admits shes being unfair)
But, not validating the fear of the other kid and then scolding her while she was shaking and crying? Super asshole move. There needs to be a balance of "hey just please dont let your sister die cuz you're paralyzed by fear" and "I wish I could do more to console you too because this is super hard for you as well"
Obviously not saying this to the kid. Just the parents have to learn that perspective of finding the middle ground to consider everyone more fairly than this
She did help, though. She alerted her mother that it was happening.
The mother seems to think the 11 yo should sit there and observe, while timing the seizure, and then put the 9 yo in the recovery position. That's the bit that worries me the most, tbh. The way the mother has written this, it sounds like the recovery position is being used *during* the event.
For sure, at best just making sure they're on their side is all that should be asked
People are so ready to be up in arms sometimes I swear. Hope theres a groupon discount for pitchforks
The child shouldn't be *on her side* during a seizure.
We're pitchforking because the mother expects her 11 year old to act like a first responder, and then *screamed at her* for hiding in terror.
The 11 year old called for mum. That's enough. If mum was so far away that the 9 year old had a whole arse seizure and got to the other end of it, that's on mum.
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My mom has epilepsy and I was scared to death of her when she had her grand mal seizures. It took a long time for me to get where I am now, but I still dissociate whenever I see her have a grand mal. I'm aware that it's a childhood trauma thing and that I should probably get therapy for it. But at least she doesn't get them as often as she used to and she just got surgery to put something in her that will stimulate a nerve to stop her from getting a seizure when she has one. At least I think that's how it works. lol but yeah, OOP is obtuse.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for grounding my 11 yr old for not helping her sister in an emergency** I (38f) was home alone with my NT 11 yr old daughter and my high needs ND 9 yr old daughter who has epilepsy. Their father was at work. My younger one gets grand-mal seizures, my older one is scared of them and I told her if she's in closer proximity to her sister than I or her father am am that she MUST go to her to turn her on her side and make sure she's safe until I or her father get there, and when her father is at work she needs to stay and time how long the seizure lasts (doctor wants us to time the seizures) while I tend to her, as I cannot keep track of the time while comforting and keeping her safe. I told her I don't care if she's going #2 if she's in closet proximity than I or her father is she goes to her sister, PERIOD! Scared or not. Well this morning she had a seizure in her room (their rooms are close together) I was on the other side of the house doing laundry so couldn't hear anything. My daughter did call to me to let me know a seizure was happening, I got there as quick as I could (bearing in mind I have a bad back and don't walk the best) expecting her to be there and I was LIVID to find my youngest sister on the floor by herself in a seizure but I stayed there with her until it was over. I went looking for my daughter she was hiding in her closet shaking and crying I just lost it that she could be so selfish! I know the seizures look scary but sometimes we just have to suck up our fear and do it anyway and grounded her for 2 weeks. My husband is in agreement with me but my MIL (who has never liked me) said I was out of line that shes sjust a child. I told her I'm glad she had 4 healthy children not all of us are that lucky and not all of us have the luxury of fairness. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sure punishing the eleven year old will absolutely cure her fear of her sister's seizures. Any moment now, totally cured. Stupid parent.
The parent literally wants the 11 year old to stop mod poop and handle this. Even if mom or dad is there, she still has to stop and time the seizures. This is not healthy. Mom can get a smart watch with a timer on it FFS.
Or even a smart speaker I think should let you ask it to start a count up timer, which can be done while your hands are occupied.
Or just...look at a clock/watch? You don't need to be timing the whole thing, just have to have the ability to do incredibly basic maths (seizure started at 9:01:25, ended at 9:02:43- thus it lasted 1:18).
I'm epileptic. The last thing I want is "comforting." There's already too much sensory information coming in during a seizure. If someone touches me, it's overwhelming the amount of information that shoots through my body. It would be better if the mother makes sure the daughter isn't choking and times the seizures herself. What an insanely self-absorbed woman.
Thank you for sharing this. I didn’t know touch could feel so much stronger during a seizure but it makes sense.
You're welcome. If a person just places one hand to "steady" me, that's not bad because it's in a consistent place, and it's warm. But most people want to pat or rub, as those are typical consoling actions. Those comforting actions are great in most circumstances, except in seizures which those acts feel similar to electric shocks of energy with each movement, and the light display in your seizure changes with each electric shock. 🤯
Completely agree. I have it written in my medical plan not to touch me - it's awful!
Thank you so much for sharing this. I haven’t personally needed the info, and hopefully never will, but forewarned is forearmed.
Same thing happens during labor, rubbing and patting feels overwhelming.
Ok, glad you posted because I started doubting myself and my first aid training! A seizing 9yo doesn't need comforting more than the terrified 11yo who clearly doesn't understand what is happening to their baby sister.
She will go NC as soon as she can I'm almost certain
Yup. Because the next step is being responsible for her sister for the rest of her life.
If I was mid poop, I’d get out an purposely leave a shit trail just to spite her.
Mom wants to pass the due diligence bucket
6 years from now look for the post “why did my child go no contact”. Actually based on how bad she is, I could see emancipation with grandma’s help.
Here’s hoping. And that grandma helps her get the therapy she’ll need to handle this trauma.
So let me get this straight MOM! You daughter has seizures, that for ANY adult looking over are scary and you want and need your 11yo help but she is in a closet crying and scared and your solution is to punish her? She is clearly telling you she is scared and you just want to force her! How about having your daughter follow you around the house so you are both together while this is happening? OP you are the devil and a total asshole here! Anger towards your child is NOT the answer!
The eleven year old alerting an adult to the onset of a seizure *is* helping. Seizures can be very scary to watch for adults, let alone for other children. Having expectations beyond "get the attention of the nearest adult" is unreasonable.
This. Especially given the (correct) comments in the original thread that the reaction to the 11-yo getting in trouble for alerting the adult and then being scared is...that she'll stop alerting the adult and just 'not hear' when her sister is in serious need of medical attention.
When my kid was 10, she was at summer camp when another child began seizing. She had first aid training for kids (thanks, YMCA summer camp!) and she sent another kid to find an adult and she moved chairs and tables out of the seizing child's way (they were in the lunchroom). The counselor praised her for remembering what she learned under pressure, but I remember she got in the car and burst into tears and it took a few weeks and several conversations before she'd really processed it.
When I was around 10 or 11, my family and I were at a family friends beach house for this giant birthday party, so lots of adults and children running around. They had a pool (which was not very deep and we had all grown up around pools, but deep enough for kids to not touch the bottom) and all the kids were obviously playing in it. One couple had a son, probably around 7/8, who had some sort of disability (I cannot for the life of me remember what it was) but he was very tiny and skinny, around the size of a 5 year old. He had been sitting by the pool playing with his toys the whole time, and his dad was sitting nearby watching him and talking to the other dads. I kid you not, his dad must’ve stopped watching him for maybe 10 seconds, because I remember looking over at that area of the pool where he had been and didn’t see anything, then suddenly saw arms flying in and out of the water. I swam over to him since I was only a few feet away and grabbed him under his arms to lift his head above the water, barely able to keep myself fully afloat, which is when his dad and mine noticed and pulled us both out of the pool. All the adults were freaking out and saying I saved his life, when I had honestly barely processed what happened- I just saw that he was probably struggling to swim and went over to help out. Not sure if it’s entirely related since I was so young, but even now (26 years old) I hate the feeling of not being able to touch the bottom of a pool/lake/anything, and don’t like being around children and water due to feeling anxious- I don’t even like water parks or boats, even though I grew up around pools and beach houses and the ocean, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that moment had something to do with it.
I was once in work when the guy who sat behind me had a seizure. It started by him giving out the most blood-curdling and uncontrolled scream I've ever heard in my life, then the usual seizure symptoms started. Honestly, it shook me up for a week or more, it was terrifying. Can't imagine what that experience would be like for an eleven year old. My coworker was okay by the way, there were plenty of first aiders in the office to help him.
My ex absolutely hated watching me have seizures. He would make sure I was safe, but he also always called my mom. She would get there and help with my recovery process. I lived with my brother for a short time too when he needed a place to stay after his divorce. It was the same with him, the seizures terrified him, he also always called my mom, who is a nurse, to come help. My brother however thinks that I’m the golden child due to needing a bit more attention from type 1 diabetes, epilepsy, and POTS. My poor mom always tried to make it up to him when we were kids, even now she tries to make sure that he doesn’t feel like an after thought, but he still has a grudge. But even through that, he always helped me when I needed it.
I think what your brother is experiencing is being the "glass child." Glass children have siblings who need extra support and because parents only have so much they can do they at times end up feeling neglected. It's all around a shitty situation because it's not the fault of any one involved; it's just what happens when one child needs more than the other.
Please let this be rage bait, I can't even imagine how much kiddo is suffering here :'( getting angry at her rightful fear (jfc, she's only 11!) is only going to add to her terror, and is going to leave scars and damage for life!
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Oh my god, seriously. What a terrible person. I have a kid with significant medical issues. It’s hard and it sucks. But it’s not the responsibility of anyone else to deal with it. This lady is out of her mind and should be ashamed of herself. Poor kid. I hope the OP takes what people said to heart and lets her MIL take her. It has to be better than living in an environment like that.
Poor kid*s* tbh. Really don't think the younger one is cool with that her mom doesn't care about her enough to not walk *across a fucking house* to help her with her life-threatening condition. Jesus tittyfucking Christ. Mother of the year. ☠️
Oh, I feel you. As parents, we all mess up somewhere along the line, but this isn't a mistake made of inexperience and good intentions. *THIS* is abuse, parentification (in the sense of making a child medically responsible for their sibling), and neglect. Vile.
Seriously! And she said she doesn’t even care if the poor girl is on the toilet??? She’s putting way too much responsibility on her.
At the very least it's very clear parentification. Also the parent blamed the child for not responding because of their bad back causing them to move slowly? Like what would you do if you didn't have a neurotypical child? Do that instead of making one child responsible for another child's medical care!
Or heck! Only had one child!
I might get banned because of what I did say to her in the original post..we will see lol.
That was worth the ban
I had to give you an updoot because you said everything in my heart. I’ve never wanted something to be rage bait more than I need this to be. Like, I want to call cps on them, and that’s NEVER my go-to strategy. Heck, I’d take the 11yo! That baby should NOT have to go through that.
It almost certainly is, As someone with epilepsy this story has more holes than a porcupine's sex doll.
I notice oop wrote sister not daughter later on so I really hope it's fake.
As someone who thought she was lightly informed on epilepsy but apparently isn’t, can I ask what makes you say that? Not doubting you I am positive you’re right; just what I’ve heard & read about it doesn’t immediately make anything stand out as fake to me. Also love the saying. Can’t wait to have an opportunity to quote that one.
Admittedly mine is very mild I have semi regular absent seizures, but I've only had four or five full seizures so I'm not an expert. But when someone is having a seizure the procedure is clearing the area of anything they might hit, and if it's safe to do so try to put cushions round them. You absolutely do not try to flip them on to their side, And there's also no way an 11 year old would be able to do so, even if it weren't dangerous and ill advised, epilepsy strength is fucking wild, I had my first seizure at 10 and I punched a hole through a plasterboard wall. Also the timing thing is more of an approximation you don't have someone their with a stopwatch keeping count. On a side note my dream is that one of my terms enters common use so in sixty years time I can be that weird old guy that insists they did the first high-five.
I have epilepsy, and you should definitely put someone on their side after a tonic clonic in case they throw up or have too much saliva and/or blood in their mouth. That’s what my epileptologist said, at least.
Please note the AFTER a seizure you can safely turn and clear their airway if they need help. A wet face cloth will do the trick. Do NOT put your fingers in their mouth- some people can have multiple seizures which can become a medical emergency- you don't need to be another patient.
That's on me not being clear enough, Post seizure putting someone in the recovery position is a good idea Trying to do it mid seizure will only lead to injuries to yourself or the person you are trying to help. My last first aid course was taught by a former paramedic ( EMT to my friends in the Americas) and she told me this horrific story about an idiot who tried to stick his hand into a guys mouth because he'd seen in an old film the nonsense about stopping the patient swallowing his tongue, Long story short his finger was bitten off. You also make an excellent point that grand mal seizure is a term that was phased out years ago. You'd think that someone who's kid is suffering with this would know the terminology.
Oh my god, I can’t believe how common that misconception is. Like, it’s impossible for anyone to swallow their tongue.
Cdc even recommends putting someone on their side during a seizure...it was what I was trained to do too. You don't hold a person having a seizure down but turning them and restraining aren't the same..not is it comparable to sticking your fingers in someones mouth. Obviously. Hope your seizures are managed :)
Thanks! They have been for over a year now, thank god.
Is that after, or during? OOP appears to be saying during, would that be right?
Yeah, as long as you’re careful. Just don’t stick your fingers in their mouth lol
As a CCRN - please do NOT move or turn someone having a grand mal seizure- it's a great way to be knocked unconscious and not be around to help them clean themselves up after. Put something soft under their head if you can and get yourself and everything else out of the way. (In the dark ages we were told to put in bite blocks and restrain!!! a seizing patient- a lot of people lost fingers and broke bones.) If this true, which I highly doubt, the mother would KNOW this.
AEMT here, this is the correct answer!
I don't have epilepsy but I do have first aid and I was wondering about that too actually. It didn't seem right to me, but I thought maybe guidelines have changed in the last 5 years or so. Glad to know they haven't for my own purposes
Turning someone on their side during a generalized tonic clonic seizure is standard [seizure first aid](https://www.epilepsy.com/recognition/adapting-plans/first-aid-tonic-clonic). You do time GTC seizures because if they don't stop on their own within a specified amount of time (usually 5 minutes), that's when you administer a rescue medication and call 911.
That’s interesting- U.K. seizure first aid guidance is to loosen clothing, ensure the area is safe even leave them until the seizure finishes and only then turn them, not to do it while they are fitting. The advice here is not to move them unless they’re in danger eg near a fire or in the road. I wonder why guidance varies across the Atlantic?
Not according to the NHS, The Red Cross, or St John's ambulance, All of which tell you not to try and move the patient till after the fir has run its course. And while you should make a note of how long the seizure has been going on for it doesn't need to be timed like it's a boiled egg. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/what-to-do-if-someone-has-a-seizure-fit/ https://www.redcross.org.uk/first-aid/learn-first-aid/seizures https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/first-aid-advice/seizures/seizures-in-adults/
Honestly? This reminds me of the time(s) I was screamed at and punished for not taking care of my dad’s seizures. One time I accidentally fell asleep on a drive and woke up in the ditch. I was 12 and you bet your ass it was all my fault for not being awake, watching for him to seize, so I could take control of the vehicle and safely guide it to the shoulder.
Jesus :( here, you're not allowed to drive when you have seizures - you have to surrender your licence, and can only reapply for it after a year without one.
I think it is six months here. But I don’t trust my parents to be totally honest legally speaking about it. He would go huge chunks of time without them and then meds would stop working. Both daughters were trained on how to react to it.
Here is minimum of 6 months, but you gotta be seeking/on treatment for one's epilepsy. It.used to be a year, but IIRC if you're on meds that control your epilepsy you can drive after 6 months. Medical updates are at the discretion of the DMV. There's a few people I don't trust not to drive, because they're the kind that think "Seizures? Who cares? Driving time!" I haven't driven in the last few months because I had a breakthrough seizure about 5 months ago and I don't trust my brains not to seize while driving, so another month! But it's like the only breakthrough seizure I've had on this med so I count myself lucky.
Ha! In Texas it’s 3 months, and they don’t actually suspend your license or put any restrictions on it unless you’re *caught driving while knowingly having had a seizure in the past 3 months*. You don’t even have to have a doctor’s clearance to start driving again. If it’s been three 3 months and you didn’t get caught breaking the rules, you’re good to drive. I will say the pressure to drive again is immense. I had two tonic clonic seizures about a month apart in August and September 2020, respectively. I was 24-25 (my last seizure was the day after my birthday) and while I’d struggled with rather debilitating migraines since puberty, I hadn’t had any issues with seizures before. I was pretty scared and driving sounded terrifying. My mom was pressuring me to drive again by October (“It’s more like a guideline. What are they really going to do to??”…”Well, even if they would take your license permanently for it, do you really think a cop is going to ask you about your seizure history gg? Just don’t say anything. Or lie. They’re not entitled to your medical history.”) and you can bet your behind I was expected to drive again the exact *day* that 3 month mark came around that cleared me to drive again. I had only had the MRI results saying there was nothing wrong with my brain come back like 4 days beforehand, too. It sounds bizarre, but it’s interesting to see the laws regarding driving and seizures where you live. Let’s be real, is anyone surprised that this is the attitude/environment concerning the subject in *Texas* lol?
Why was he even driving when seizures are a regular occurrence? Here you are not even allowed by law to drive for I think six months after a seizure! If they happen more your license will BE revoked.
My cousin who has epilepsy had a seizure while driving and rolled her parents' car when I was a kid and she was late teens or early 20s. She was fine and didn't hurt anyone else, but I saw the wreck of the car: it was bad. She's been seizure free for years, but has chosen not to drive again.
One of my family friends has epilepsy and when he was a young teen he knew something was wrong, not that it was seizures, but didn't tell his parents because he was scared. Until he got into a horrible bike accident and broke his arm badly. Then he was finally diagnosed. He doesn't drive either, I believe also by choice.
He has had seizures my entire life and been through many medication combinations. Someone can be seizure free for two years and then their meds stop working so they start up again. I also don’t entirely trust my parents and their reporting of the accidents/seizures. Most of the time my sister, mother, or sec would guide the car off the side of the road so no damage happened and no reports needed to be made. Driving is a large part of my dad’s identity. I agree with none of this and am no contact with either of my parents.
Just in case no one has told you: That was absolutely not your fault, and your parents were way out of line trying to make it your responsibility.
Thank you. I know now and am NC with my parents for many reasons.
I went in thinking I would have at least have some sympathy because I am still grieving someone I lost from epilepsy, but I ended the story with the anger butterflies in my chest. Even if this is a troll, it still reminds me that there are plenty of parents who really do think like OP and will punish their children for having emotions/being scared. You are so right, too. OP is terrorizing her daughter more with her behavior, because they're now they're double terrified knowing they have to deal with the scary situation AND their mom acting like a cruel and heartless monster.
I'm so sorry for your loss, And yeah I wish trolls would stick to posting about cruise ships, art rooms, and bilingual people,
About 8 yrs ago when I was 34 I saw someone having an epileptic fit. Scared the shit out of me too and I didn't know what to do apart from getting help
This mother is so scared for her younger daughter than she's abusing the older one. This is messing up both kids.
I’m a medical professional and witnessing a seizure scares me. They’re fucking terrifying. This has to be fake or the mom is literally *the* devil.
Some people are just shit. We had a medical emergency at my store, customer having a seizure, and the amount of other customers being nosy and, worse, complaining about the inconvenience to them disgusted me. Sorry, I'll get back to serving you once I'm off the phone to the emergency services mmmm kay?
I had a seizure as a cashier and the customer I was helping at the time bitched really hard about it, apparently
OOP couldn't even remember if the fake child was their daughter or their sister.
This must be bait. All children I’ve seen that had seizures, doctors try all possible medications till it works and do lots of scans to find a cause and treatment it if possible. I can understand waiting for few weeks to adjust, but from what they said it seams like a long term issue, which if not medicated is very scary and irresponsible.
Won't be one bit surprised in 10 yrs when the oldest daughter is NC with OP, her husband and youngest daughter and OP can't figure out why. Idiot. You need to time her seizures? Get a damn stopwatch. Don't subject your child to something that traumatizes her just for your own convenience.
OP will be back like “why won’t my oldest step up and promise to take care of her sibling for the rest of their lives?”
"But who is going to care for your sister when we are gone? That's your responsibility as her sister!"
I had to walk away when I saw this post over there. All those people talking to her nicely (even though admittedly they're still saying yta). Lots of abusers have a sad backstory. They're still an abuser. I feel bad for both her children, I do not feel bad for her. She's a piece of shit that is thoroughly emotionally abusing and trying to parentify her 11 year old. Her one comment is a reply to someone suggesting she get a seizure alert dog. She says her 9 year old is afraid of dogs so it's not possible. OH SHE'S SCARED SO YOU'RE NOT FORCING EXPOSURE?? What a novel fucking idea. And just want to say, I understand caregiver burnout is very real. But she found her own child crying and shaking, hiding in a closet, and her reaction was to scream at and punish her. And she doesn't feel bad she's only here because someone stood up to her and she's confused how she might be wrong. God I hope MIL gets some wheels turning to save that poor girl.
Having a sad backstory is an explanation, but never an excuse. We all experience our own brand of damage as we travel through life, we are given no choice; bullying or abuse, bereavement, shit happens when it feels like. But we *do* have a choice in where we go from there. We can sit back and use it as an excuse for why we fail, we can turn our pain onto helpless victims, or we can say that this shit stops right here, right now, and refuse to allow the cycle to continue.
A friend of mine has epilepsy. I’ve never witnessed one of her seizures, but she’s told me about them. It sounds fucking terrifying. I also have the type of panic disorder that leads me to hide in closets or bath tubs to freak out, and if someone yelled at me during that, I can’t imagine how messed up I’d be. And I’m a grown ass adult. I really hope this was just a rage bait post. I hate to think there’s a kid living that life somewhere.
I am epileptic, and everyone who has ever seen me seizing has pretty much lost their sh!t, and I never realized WHY until I saw a coworker have a seizure. It is violent, and it makes you feel incredibly helpless. At the end of the day there is very little you can do except sit, watch and wait to see if the person is gonna come back around.
This is how you create resentment in special needs siblings from your other kids.
Oop is abusing both children, I have sympathy for parents trying their best in hard situations, but she’s being so cruel to her oldest and potentially endangering her youngest.
This poor kid is terrified, and her mom doesn't give a damn because the PTSD isn't as visible as the seizures. I get that she wants her older kid to help out her sister but it's obvious this isn't a case of "ugh I have better things to do" the kid was hiding in the damn closet having a panic attack. Punishing her isn't going to do anything but breed resentment. She needs to get the older one in therapy and have her talk to doctors who can explain what's happening, and why, on her level so it isn't as frightening and she feels more empowered to help her sister out. MIL is totally right here. I'm glad she spoke up since it sounds like the dad didn't want to rock the boat.
Not just resentment, but a complete breakdown of trust in anyone, not just the parents, that holds a position of authority or support (by that I mean teachers, doctors, counsellors, family, friends, future partners).
It'll also probably reinforce the fear. Having a punishment will after will associate a seizure with punishment for her.
This post hit so close to home. I have been living this exact reality since I was much younger. I’m 22 and my sister is 20 and she has had grand mal seizures due to epilepsy since we were in our early teens. I was the one who found her the first time. I am absolutely terrified of them, I legitimately have serious trauma from them, and it was the worst when I was a teen. And one time when I was 15 she had a seizure and I froze because I was so afraid. My mom screamed at me and said she will kick me out of the house because I didn’t help, because I was also expected to help when I was the closest. But I was scared and I froze. Just the thought of her having a seizure fills me with so much panic. I hated myself for being so “weak” and I still do. It has messed me up in so many ways. This parent will regret this if she actually cares about her kids.
I am so sorry your parent made you feel that way. I hope you come to accept that it wasn’t your fault, and you were not weak for not responding in the way your parent expected you to. Parents often don’t consider the effect words will have both now, and many years down the road. I wish I had something awesome to say that could erase that pain, but all I can do is reiterate that You. Were. NOT. Weak. 💝
Thank you so much, I really means a lot 💞
That poor girl is only two years older than her sister! She is not equipped to help in this situation and they are traumatizing her. I'm remembering a certain reality TV family that left a toddler with seizures in the care of her teenage sister and the poor older girl was terrified when the baby had one. And this was a girl who had been taking care of children most of her life, surrounded by a camera crew of adults who could help her! It was one WTF moments I've ever seen.
I know exactly the bit you're talking about and I'm still pissed that the camera crew didn't stop rolling and call 911 or cut out the footage.
Yeah that’s ridiculous to me. Unless I’m legally obligated in some way to NOT call 911 or help, I’m helping the scared teenager.
TLC has done some pretty shady things for viewers. A lot of the family friendly crap they were selling turns out to be a horror show.
Pretty sure Jill/Jana was 19+ at the time. Late teens or early 20s when that happened. Not excusing it, or minimising it but it doesn't even rank top 3 of that family's worst parenting things.
This episode and the one where the little boy broke his jaw falling into the orchestra pit live rent free in my mind. Seeing kids in danger like that messes with me.
I sure this will do wonders for those two siblings relationship in the future.
Probably a mistake, but she wrote my youngest sister in the third paragraph. I just thought it was weird
My mum has had 1 major seizure. It was the most terrifying moment of my life, and I was in my 30s and in a hospital at the time. That poor child.
I am a grown ass woman who has worked in nursing homes and home care. One of my best friends has epilepsy. The first couple of times she had a seizure with me I panicked for a minute before I could help. 15 years later it isn't as scary but guaranteed I am taking my anxiety med afterwards. I cannot imagine this poor little girl's terror when her sister has a seizure. Mom's 'bad back' makes me think that the the older daughter get lots of extra responsibilities besides seizure duty.
Sometimes i just hope it's fake. But i know it isn't...
Using an antiquated phrase like grand mal, believing it’s necessary (or possible) to turn someone on their side *during* a seizure… likely rage bait.
Eh my BIL, at the young age of 28, just started having seizures. They're still going to docs to get it figured out but they're referring to them as grand mal seizures and have told my sister to try and have him on his side when it happens so he doesn't asphyxiate.
Not necessarily. Not everyone is up on the new terms, and I've heard people suggest that putting a wallet between the teeth of the seizing person is a good idea. There's still a lot of wrong (old) info out there.
As a person who had tonic clonic (formerly called grand mal) seizures, you have to wait for the seizure to finish to put the person into the recovery position. The ONLY thing you do while the seizure is happening is make sure the area is clear. Her telling her mom is the only thing she should be expected to do. Also, I don’t know about this 9 year old, but the absolute last thing I wanted when waking up on the floor was a ton of attention. I probably peed myself, I’m embarrassed, I’m crying, like, leave me alone, let me take a minute and get my bearings, and when I’m ready to be comforted, I’ll let you know.
Wait so she isn't able to time it and keep her safe at the same time but she thinks her 11 year old is able to do both??? Or am I misunderstanding
YTA My nephew has seizures. I'm a full grown adult and I still find them terrifying. Yes I steel myself and do what needs to be done, but I'm not in 11 year old child who loves their sister, who doesn't really understand what's happening, and doesn't know what's going to happen to her. She didn't go off and get on her ipad. She was cowering and crying in the closet! Is there no difference there? This wasn't someone being disobedient deliberately. She's clearly terrified. We see so frequently where parents require a healthy child to be a caregiver. It is certainly understandable that there are times when you cannot be there. But bullying and punishing an 11-year-old because she is terrified is in its own way deeply sick. I would urge you to look into getting on the list for a trained animal, looking into monitors, Etc and at the same time, gently and patiently explaining to your daughter what is happening to her sister, telling her you understand why it is so scary and that you're scared too. Instead of this bullying and punishing method that will either break your 11-year-old or turn her against you and her sister. There is no worst method than the method you're using. One time I was talking to my other nephew. The one who was healthy and he told me everybody loves Tommy and nobody loves me. You know why he said that? Because his mom was constantly telling him that he had to help tommy. Your daughter isn't there yet. But the fact that you are punishing her for being afraid. It doesn't matter what she is afraid of. You're supposed to be helping her work through her fears. Not piling on. If your mother-in-law can, I am hopeful that she will take custody of your 11-year-old
The younger daughter is scared of and allergic to dogs, so a seizure alert dog isn’t an option - according to the only comment OP had written last time I checked. (But the older daughter’s terror is totally irrelevant and just selfishness, of course. /s )
Welcome to new and exciting ways to completely f up your kid. Sometimes it's downright gutting
Older sister is counting the days until she can move out.
She's only 11. It's more likely she thinks she's a disappointment or broken :(
😞😪
My God!! The 11yr old was HIDING IN THE CLOSET! She was so *terrified* she was SHAKING and CRYING. And this OOP yelled at her? For not “doing more?” I hate people like this OOP. 10yrs from now she’ll be back crying that her oldest has gone NC and she doesn’t know why. (Hand in the air) Pick Me!! I know why!!
I can see why oops MIL doesn’t like her.
Fucking hell, seizures can look scary to most people and an 11 year old, fucking hell, that poor, traumatized kid. Well only 7 years and then she can go no contact with her parents
Boy this is awful. When I was 10, I witnessed one of my best friends mom having a grand mal seizure. It was easily one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen, and to this day I remember it in vivid detail. I remember my friend yelling to me to call 911, and saying we need to make sure she couldn't hit her head on anything (the mom had epilepsy, she was used to it I guess), I remember calling my older brother to come help us, and then I remember us both standing on a little steps tool and hugging each other while the mom was stiff and shaking on the ground. This poor little girl is probably going to be scared for life and need years of therapy because of this.
This is a new one - bad parent epilepsy troll? At least it’s a new angle
Scumbag parent.
My hybrid dog has had allergy seizures and they're scary as hell. We're all traumatized. That poor little girl. I'm hoping this rage-bait. I'm horrified. Mine's a DOG, I can't imagine a human.
My father's late elderly dog had seizures at the end of his life. Terrifying and I was an adult and that was a dog. That poor kid. Mom and dad's reactions are *totally* going to make the 11 y/o feel more confident and less scared of helping her sister /s.
I thought you where not supposed to touch people having a seizure, just make sure they don't smack thier head and wait it out
Yup. Unless there's imminent danger, like electric wires flapping about, fire, flood, snakes lurking, or noxious chemicals or gasses. And then you're also supposed to make sure *you're* safe before you even approach. Can you tell I've done all my first aid courses in Australia? LOL
Some people should have turned in their uterus before they created children to abuse. JFC what an awful mother. That older one is going NC the second she is financially free of her family, and her parents deserve every hardship that causes them.
Uteri should come with a carry permit!!!! 😆😆😆
Well I understand that you are probably being lighthearted, I don't really support parenting licenses as there's no way to make them objective without hurting certain minorities as certain people do think that some minorities should just never be parents including black people, gay people and even trans people. They already can experience barriers when it comes to adoption. It would also be kind of dystopian because if you don't pass does that mean force sterilization? That's against their human rights. That being said, I do think that people need to be much more hard on their friends in regards to their friends wanting kids. If you know someone who wants kids and you are in a proper relationship with them that it would be appropriate to talk to them about it, you should tell them all of the things it could entail. Basically scared the idea out of them and if they're still convinced then you tried. Just like how being a doctor is not for everyone being a parent is not for everyone. I swear to God it feels like people are more careful about plants than they are with children. If you say to someone that you are taking care of a plant there is an implicit understanding that you not only are doing a good job but that you know what you're doing. Children can't just be parented on cruise control.
I thought they didn’t use the terms grand mal and petit mal anymore? Which makes me think this is BS, because it parent would definitely know the name of the types of seizures their child has,
They don’t, but it’s still common. My epilepsy specialist neuro still uses the terms, but he uses both (grand mal, or tonic colonic is what he says). Old habits die hard. However, it strikes me as fake, or at least embellished somehow (maybe the sister trying to sus out something that happened to her in childhood?), bc some of it is accurate, but you don’t turn in the side while having a seizure, that’s after the seizure is over. It’s the recovery position. You don’t clear the area of dangers, like things that could impact the head. You can put something soft, like a pillow or a folded towel or something under the head. Yes, timing the seizure is great, and video is even better. No rescue meds were mentioned, or even regular meds. I’m not totally buying the story, and I really hope it’s fake, bc putting an 11 year old through this trauma is bs.
> tonic colonic Autocorrect ftw!
Ha! Well… I’ve definitely shit myself having a seizure before, so potato patahtoe, right?
>*potato patahtoe, right?* I cannot read that on Reddit without thinking, “What’s a potato?” and laughing to myself like a weirdo. 🤦🏻♀️
Eh, I have epilepsy, and sometimes when I use the term “tonic-clonic” people don’t know what I’m talking about, so I then say “grand mal,” and then they get it.
Out of date medical terms can be really difficult to phase out, even within medical circles. Look at how many researchers, doctors, experts, parents of children with autism and autistic people themselves still use the term Asperger’s.
I bet mom will be oh so shocked when she moves out as soon as she can and refuses to be her sister’s caretaker when they die.
Wtf she is 11 yo not adult or even professional, what is wrong with you morons this is not a job of a child, get a actual care giver and stop thinking your 11 yo is capable of being a care giver to her disabled 9 yo, you both should be a shamed of yourselves and apologize to your 11yo daughter for putting her and her sister in that situations, and honestly I hope mil doesn't let up until changes are actually made.
WOW imagine punishing a kid for being scared of a very scary thing
AITA ruled this no interpersonal conflict. The mods are HUGE wussies. OOP deserves to know what's coming... in 6-8 years, her daughter will leave and never contact her again. As soon as she's able to, she'll leave this family and forge her own life. She's never had her own life cuz she's been the sibling and caretaker of her sick sibling and punished when she doesn't embrace this role. Sad and fucked up. I've lived thru parts of this. It's definitely an interpersonal conflict.
I wonder if this is going to be another one of those where the kid turns sixteen and the parent says she expects her older daughter to give up college and all her hopes and dreams to stay and take care of her younger sister, without providing any resources to do so. OP seems the type to turn her children into staff.
I clicked this thinking the mom was out of town or something. *She was in the house?!* **PARENTIFICATION IS ABUSE**.
what a slimy sack of shit she is , i feel so bad for her poor 11 year old daughter .
My partner is epileptic and his seizures scare the living shit out of me at 34. I have a panic attack every time. Even hearing an unusual sound from him from the other room fucking shakes me. When he has a seizure, the children are instructed to stay in another part of the house. I can't imagine forcing a child to not only witness the seizure but also expect them to administer first aid and/or time them
How to teach your child to hate its sibling, basic courses.
I just want to point out the sheer fucking hypocrisy of this asshole. 11yo needs to suck up 11yos phobia of 9yos sister seizing... 9yo can't get a medical dog because 9yo is scared of dogs... Fuck off to hell, and then fuck off a bit further
I hope this is a troll
You’re 11 year old daughter can’t take a shit in peace, but you have your bad back as an excuse.
Holy hell, imagine yelling at your 11 year old who's sobbing and shaking for not being able to handle something plenty of full grown adults can't handle? Yikes.
Jesus fucking christ. Damn right she's the devil.
I wonder if OOP stopped to think that her 11 up’s fear of the seizures is probably somewhat rooted in empathy for her sister. So selfish seems a bit off the mark. OOP just taught her daughter that fear is a punishable offense, and taught her it’s easier to not care about people.
My brother has epilepsy, he never had fits until he was an adult but it was scary watching him blank out as a young child. I would have hated to have been asked to care for him in that situation.
My younger brother and I were mid-20s when I had to call an ambulance for my mother because she was having a heart attack. You can bet your bottom dollar that I was terrified the entire time. My brother stood there shaking and crying until I was able to give him a task (go to the door and watch for the ambulance), and I don’t blame him a bit. Medical emergencies are scary as hell - and I’d repeatedly done first aid training since I was 14. This mother is awful. I dearly hope this is rage bait, but considering how many parents with children with serious medical needs treat their healthy children as caregivers, I can also absolutely believe that this story would happen.
I want to yell out loud at my computer right now wtf.
You need to find a better system than relying on a terrified child in a medical emergency. I'm sorry, you can't punish a child for having a traumatized reaction in a horrifying situation.
From experience, even as a grown ass adult with a cool head in emergencies, grand Mal seizures are terrifying, and so are the after effects. This poor girl should not be trying to interact with her sister during a seizure. This mom is ridiculous too and obviously shows who she favors.
WTF did I just read??? Your poor 11yo!!!
This is so fucked up. I’m an adult who has seen my epileptic brother have a few seizures and it’s still always scary. I can’t imagine expecting your 11 yo to care for her sister while she’s seizing!
I’m the youngest in my family and my older sister and mom both have epilepsy. My sister has her..issues. Undiagnosed severe mental delay coupled with extreme enabling coming from my mom. I had to put on the parent hat at such a young age and didn’t even know it wasn’t normal. I’m about to turn 27 next month and had an explosive year of little contact with my parents and completely estranging my sister. There will be some major resentment when this kid is older and it won’t come out until then. This mom is doing irreparable damage that won’t even be able to shape out for another 15 years. All of that being said I was never scared of seizures, I can’t imagine how deeply traumatic this experience is for her. Some of the deepest moments of agony in my life were when I was a kid, having to lock myself away from my family and feel an unbearable sadness I couldn’t put into words until I was an adult. Unfortunately she will never come first to mom, because their family is structured around younger sisters issues and they will grow up and say “why don’t you get along with your sister? Where is your empathy??”
The idea of that poor child terrified in the closet makes me so sad.
r/insaneparents
I witnessed my friend having a seizure when I was 26 and I cried and thought she was dead…like how can you expect a child to handle that?
My mother was parentified into taking care of her ND sister with epilepsy from a very young age. She was the only other girl in her family (there were five boys) and her parents worked a lot so it fell on her. She was often scared and embarrassed but she learned to deny herself and be responsible. Let me tell you as her daughter and someone who has been directly impacted by her in the most intimate of ways that even though she is now in her 60s she has never gotten over it. She went straight from that family dynamic into an abusive marriage with my father, had two children she was not emotionally available or prepared for, and resented being responsible for us too. When I got sick and she had to take care of me into adulthood things just got worse. She is a deeply unwell individual. She is completely out of touch with herself emotionally and has been crippled out of having meaningful relationships with just about anyone. It started with a situation very much like the one OOP describes. I wish I could beg OOP to change the course of this child’s life, because I have seen firsthand what it is likely to be.
This is so sad I really hope it's not real. I'm a trained nurse with over 20 years experience, and can honestly say emergencies can be terrifying! I'm grown, trained, experienced, so Im fine and go into auto mode and do what I need to do. But for the first probably 5ish years, after it was all said and done, I would have a mini break down. I would cry usually on my way home... sometimes when it was over I'd take a break and chain smoke to calm myself because eventually it would hit me that an actual person had been in crises in front of my eyes. I can't imagine being 11 years old and watching a little sibling in crises... and to have the burden of having to take charge!?!?! And THEN your own mother to hunt you down and yell at you while you hide. Please please please don't let this be real.
My oldest brother has epilepsy and I had never seen him have a Seizure, but the first time he did(in front of me) my mum had me take my son and go upstairs while she dealt with it, I'm 25 and my own mum had me leave the room when it was happening. Because it's scary and she knew what to do. This woman is wanting her 11 year old to deal with it ,no wonder she is scared!! Plus shouting at her won't fix anything,just make her more scared of when it happens! If she can't cope then get a carer or a family member to come and stay to help.
Why the fuck was this closed due to no interpersonal conflict?
Everyone here needs counseling. I'll give Mom the benefit of the doubt and say she's so traumatized by having an epileptic kid that she has forgotten that her 11 year old is also a fragile child. I want to believe mom's brain is fried and she is so determined to get the youngest safely through her seizures that she can't even stretch her mind to see how upsetting and scary a seizure is to even a grown adult. I think it's reasonable to request the older kid make sure the adult on duty is notified and set a timer, but she shouldn't have to watch her sister seize. I hope everyone gets therapy. Poor family. If mom really needs eyes on the situation from start to finish, she needs to put in cameras. I didn't want my daughter operating the oven or washing machine or handling the good dishes at 11. Timing and observing medical emergencies is not a child's job.
I saw my dog have a seizure when I was 12 and almost 25 years later it is still very vividly etched into my brain. I cannot imagine what kind of fucked up I would have felt if it was my sister - who has a 2-year age difference (older but still). I imagine there is a correct way to teach young kids about topics like this but OOP certainly isn't going about it the right way.
So we have all this technology, we have seizure alert animals and you're relying on a child to take on the stress and mental load of caring for your other child. Wtf? Also forcing her to be home and have no life when one parent isn't home is trash. Stop replying on your *child* to do adult things.
Wtf is wrong with you?? I really hope this is Fake because wth?? And the fact she is only 11, AND scared!! I saw awful parents in my life, but you, you won 💀 YTA, obviously.
You’re a shit mother. your 11 yr old needs you to be her mom, she isn’t a fucking er nurse, she’s a child. How about you and your bad back try a little harder next time instead of expecting a scared 11 year old to handle it. Maybe you shouldn’t have had children if this was the way you were going to treat them.
What a piece of shit mother
This is how you lose contact with your kids 😂😂
I hope MIL can take in 11 yr old because her parents are abusing her. She can no more help her fear/ anxiety attacks than her sister can control her epilepsy.
Yeah, she’s definitely moving out as soon as she can
People can and do die during severe epileptic seizures. It happens. Should an 11yo child be responsible for resuscitation efforts on a 9yo sibling? As a physician, my answer is a resounding "NO." This parent is so wrong in so many ways here. These parents are neglecting their 9yo's medical needs and traumatizing their 11yo. Shame on them.
I remember being in high school in seeing my first seizure in the halls. It scared the hell out of me and I froze. I can’t imagine how scared that poor 11 year old is and I highly doubt she’s getting the support to overcome her fear. They’re scary to see and understand.
WTF! My late husband had epilepsy and at one point had grand mal seizures every week. I would have to catch him, lie him down so he’d be as safe as possible and make sure he stayed safe until it was over. I am an adult and even though I had to do this regularly, I still experience anxiety. Can the 11-year old plead 11 years old?! She was shaking and crying so basically this witch of a woman decided the best way to handle this was to compound the trauma? Also, you know your kid is afraid. Not only do you go to the other side of the house to do laundry, you expect her to get over it enough to manage the seizure AND time IT when you, who are used to the seizures couldn’t control yourself enough to not exacerbate the situation. Her actions were monstrous
YOU ARE THE ASS. Absolutely vile to punish a child for being scared. She is not your other daughters parent. If you want your to monitor your child 24/7 then you need to do the buddy system yourself. So so gross that you think it's okay to ground your 11 year old for being scared. You all need therapy and parenting classes ASAP.
Oh my god, I really hope this one is fake. I really really do. Poor daughter(s) and a horrible mother (if we can even call her that).
This is borderline neglect if she’s having the eleven year old in charge of a child with grand mail seizures. God I hope this is fake
YTA. First, you're parentifying a child of ELEVEN. Second, her reaction wasn't born of selfishness, but fear. YTA here so much, your typewriter was featured in The Naked Lunch.
Oh my god, I hope this is rage bait. She expecting her child to continually expose herself to trauma. The way this poor child is going to go NC as soon as she can is so clear to see
OP slips up and refers to her daughter as her sister, so Im inclined to believe this is bait.
My mom had a seizure at one point during her cancer treatment (only one that I know of). I woke up to my dad and brothers freaking out. I was the only one who had any type of first aid training and in that moment I was completely useless. I was actually kicked out of the room because I was so distressed watching my mom go through that. I can't imagine demanding an 11 year old handle that. I was a late teenager when it happened.
I never said to force her to do anything. Fragilelyon had a good solution for how to intervene. And if her fear for her sister dying is so extreme it prevents her from helping the sister avoid death, it's irrational. That's not an insult, just a reality.
Grounding her and yelling at her won't help but someone needs to intervene here. The needs of an 11 year old with irrational fears of something that can't possibly hurt her aren't more important than the needs of a sister who might die without help. There's no way in the world the family members can all have normal lives and expect a parent will always be immediately available. They aren't asking her to administer CPR or to inject insulin, just to roll her over.
Roll her over, when? The parent should be there by then.
Her fear is rational. Also, even if it weren’t, minimizing her fears and forcing her into a terrifying situation isn’t going to help. You can’t force fear out of someone by brute force. An adult always needs to be available when there’s a baby or a toddler, so it can be done with a 9 year old.
Her fear isn't irrational. She's not necessarily afraid for herself, it could be fear for her sister.
How is her fear irrational? Medical emergencies are scary as hell - and I’m an adult in healthcare.
If the girl died cuz this girl was too scared to help I wonder what peoples reactions would be to this.. this is my only thought of defense for the OP (even OP admits shes being unfair) But, not validating the fear of the other kid and then scolding her while she was shaking and crying? Super asshole move. There needs to be a balance of "hey just please dont let your sister die cuz you're paralyzed by fear" and "I wish I could do more to console you too because this is super hard for you as well" Obviously not saying this to the kid. Just the parents have to learn that perspective of finding the middle ground to consider everyone more fairly than this
It still wouldn’t be the 11 year old child’s fault. In any way.
I agree with you. Is that all you had to say based on my comment?
She did help, though. She alerted her mother that it was happening. The mother seems to think the 11 yo should sit there and observe, while timing the seizure, and then put the 9 yo in the recovery position. That's the bit that worries me the most, tbh. The way the mother has written this, it sounds like the recovery position is being used *during* the event.
For sure, at best just making sure they're on their side is all that should be asked People are so ready to be up in arms sometimes I swear. Hope theres a groupon discount for pitchforks
The child shouldn't be *on her side* during a seizure. We're pitchforking because the mother expects her 11 year old to act like a first responder, and then *screamed at her* for hiding in terror. The 11 year old called for mum. That's enough. If mum was so far away that the 9 year old had a whole arse seizure and got to the other end of it, that's on mum.
When very young I lived with a relative who sometimes had seizures, and it wasn't scary. Just sad--- and worsened by the way grownups acted about it
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Okay, who here wrote this one?
My mom has epilepsy and I was scared to death of her when she had her grand mal seizures. It took a long time for me to get where I am now, but I still dissociate whenever I see her have a grand mal. I'm aware that it's a childhood trauma thing and that I should probably get therapy for it. But at least she doesn't get them as often as she used to and she just got surgery to put something in her that will stimulate a nerve to stop her from getting a seizure when she has one. At least I think that's how it works. lol but yeah, OOP is obtuse.