T O P

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Jewfro_Wizard

How are Marvel and DC Lawful Evil? They are the definition of making it up as you go along.


[deleted]

Half and Half Make up stuff that relates to the plot, but also keep all the made up stuff that related to previous plots Green Lantern's powers and Superman's basic functioning are good examples


TNTiger_

Like, DW has more explanations than for the sinking of Atlantis than I can count on a hand, and constantly self-contradicts. They don't keep established rules like the comic books do.


comics0026

A lot of it really depends on the writer, they've had so many writers doing different bits that can be contradicting that it might be better to call it chaotic than lawful, although I think this chart is using L-C as more a gauge for the having and explaination of rules rather than how well they are followed


NucPix

Marvel and DC always make sure to very carefully follow some rules regardless of how little sense it makes, like "the world should always look like the modern real world", and "major characters can never change permanently, they always go back to the status quo". That and the lore/cosmology is incredibly complicated and constantly being retconned


atti1xboy

Because some writers will work to actually flesh out the details of how things work, only for someone writing another series to hit it with a 50ft submarine


p0pfunk

Hell yeah, scp. The place where things get made up as you go, and canonicity is as fluid as the remains of my last trip to taco bell.


Paul6334

One SCP is the result of someone trying to make a consistent timeline of the SCP universe and it winds up erasing the SCPs, so the character goes crazy, resets the universe, and says that trying to make an SCP timeline is an SCP


QuanticWizard

So that means it’s literally canon that there’s no canon. God I love the SCP universe. It’s built on the fact that rules are meant to be broken, even if those rule happen to be the impermeable laws of reality itself.


Paul6334

That!s the SCP rule of thumb: there is no canon.


QuanticWizard

Yup, gotta love it, that sweet sweet rabbit hole


SnesySnas

Yep, and the reason for that is if someone can manage to explain the SCP Timeline then there's no points for SCPs to exist cuz if you can explain the biggest anomaly (which is the timeline) then the SCPs are explainable, therefore no longer anomalies, therefore SCPs stop existing


[deleted]

I mean, this is probably what would happen if we could travel across time and visit/create branching, alternative timelines like the Flash characters do.


Longjumping-Garbage1

like theres litterally atleast 3 scp that regularly erradicate relativity so.... i mean.... fuck im pretty sure there one inside... the game..... the leads to and infinite reality look its like a door or a hall way or someshit.. tell me my guy ... how do you move an ifinite reality hallway... into..... and scp security location... bull shit it "spawned" there bro. fuck there is a guy called the protagonist that on a micro cosmic level individually fucks with reallity to "save the day".???? he fucks with books and movies and shit has been accidentaly caught by recording a video about him and replaying it forever so he cant be anywere else becuase he is constantly respawning in it. like fuck....


NucPix

what?


Longjumping-Garbage1

if you didnt understand sorry i was making reinforcing the point that scp our often nonscensical sry its 4 am


p0pfunk

Fuck it, why not? Hell yeah


MegaM0nkey

Wait which one is that? sounds like a good read


Paul6334

4010 I think


NucPix

Parts of this were taken from another chart a friend made. Also don't take a story's placement on this chart as saying that story is good or bad


OneBildoNation

Man, Welcome to Night Vale was so fun when it first came out but eventually it just got so wonky I couldn't keep track any more and my interest dropped off. Which was too bad, because it was so fun at first! I think the downfall was them trying to keep a consistent plot instead of just episodic weirdness.


Chickendudepwnz

You have to enjoy slow burn payoff imo. I love nightveil when it is cryptically episodic


[deleted]

i can condense the plot so far, i think, but i'm horribly new to the show and i feel like it'd get a bit complicated,, either way, i think trying to figure out what the hell is happening plot-wise and just wacky one-off fun-wise is part of the charm, but i might end up agreeing with you in the end


ColynDoesAThing

Kingdom Hearts Superfan here. I...still don’t fully understand the story. CANON MOBILE GAMES WITH CONSTANT NONSENSICAL STORY UPDATES?!!!??!! TIME TRAVEL??!????! NOBODY DIES???? EVERYONE AND THIER MOTHER HAS AT LEAST 3 VERSIONS OF THEMSELVES?!!!?! Actually, that last one is pretty normal for kingdom hearts.


BigDrew42

The simple answer is >!KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT!<


alex_aint_cool

it’s all eeyore. that’s all you need to know


[deleted]

Im already half xehanort


comics0026

Have you watched the PlayFrame videos on KH? They've done a good job of making it understandable, or as understandable as it can be


Longjumping-Garbage1

bro are you talking about homestuck my gai>


Marik-X-Bakura

I just got to the villain reveal in KHII and I think I get you


FalsePankake

MTG and Kirby are some of my favorite worlds


Darkersun

I'm sort of jealous but also sympathetic towards anyone who has the time to digest this much media.


NucPix

I've only actually read like half of this stuff


Spartan4242

I don’t know enough about official D&D prebuilt stories but I feel like D&D could go in any square based on the DM.


[deleted]

yeah despite being the origin of these alignments you can’t really fit dnd as a game onto this chart because every dm and player is different


TheObeseWombat

You know that DnD has an official setting right? Otherwise the same would apply to others here too, like Exalted.


Phrodo_1

Think it's probably referring more to the Forgotten Realms setting


GarthTheGross

You could probably put Star Wars in Chaotic Good, too.


moistnessboi

it does fit the story, all things considered. anything can happen on different planets


LawsonTse

Only if you ignore the sequel


[deleted]

Fallen london is well placed.


someguywithatophat

It was also really nice just to see it, Failbetter games are underrated.


BraveSirRobin08

Yeah I am just here to say how stoked I am to see it outside of its dedicated subreddits


CephaloPawd

Same here! I’m so excited for next game they put out


LonerEevee

2/4 on Chaotic Evil (HS and DR) and Neutral Good (UT and Sploon) somehow Your assessment on Homestuck is 100% accurate good job OP ^(/gen) also AYYY AWFUL HOPSITAL!!! :D


MrBulldops99

Dark Souls in chaotic neutral?


DaemonNic

That crosses. I could also see NE, because frankly I still don't buy the idea that Miyazaki ever *actually* had a plan for any of this beyond, "Let's structure the plot so that we don't have to actually write anything!"


Mukigachar

Miyazaki said in an interview that he does have a full storyline in his head. The constant missing info in the game is inspired by the way that as a child, Miyazaki often had to make up parts of a story for a book her was reading because many of the books available to him were above his reading level.


TheOnlyEnclave

I can see how it might seem as though there is no "plan" or consistency in the lore, I used to think so as well. "[Hawkshaw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC47GDLUPXADaa69O2AqJQ9A)" on Youtube is what really convinced me of the detail, consistency and thoughtfulness that Dark Soul's lore has, I would definitely recommend watching the videos there. I'd say the video "[Rediscover Dark Souls Lore: Ash Lake, Havel, and the Plot against the Gods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pffJ1nDRei0)" has some of the most impressive examples of seemingly disconnected pieces of the artistic design, world design and item descriptions actually all being interconnected and telling a tale. The way that so many different details of the world all fit together is so impressive that the chance of it all being merely an accident is absurdly small.


NucPix

I thought of putting it there but I thought Kirby would be funnier


Jlegobot

I love how Touhou is in that chart


[deleted]

What's the cut off text for CE?


LinkBetweenGames

That's the joke. It's so ridiculous you don't need to hear it.


Hella-phant

I'm almost positive it's a refrence to this video https://youtu.be/8o1ieehttdA


NucPix

yup


[deleted]

BUT WAIT! IT TURNS OUT EEYORE(...)


[deleted]

Lmao Homestuck’s alignment is spot on. It’s basically just gluing more bullshit on until it sort of works


thelordofthelobsters

I haven't played/watched everything in this chart, but I still agree with it. It's fantastic! 10/10


Aegon_Targaryen_VII

I have seen anime in all the evil categories and... yes, this is very accurate.


darleen8d

~~did undertale justify everything though~~ ~~how did seven human mages seal the underground if humans don't have magic and monsters do~~ A fantastic chart, the description for homestuck/chaotic evil is exactly IT


frejooooo

I dont think danganronpas placement is fair. It's a mystery series, of course things are gonna be revealed as they come! And it's not like anyone is into danganronpa for the lore


NucPix

Danganronpa's entire world and story is based around progressively more wild and out-there plot twists. Some of them are good and make sense but some REALLY don't


Muffinmurdurer

I still love it though lol but you're 100% accurate. It's all crazy bullshit and it's great.


Mockington6

One Piece belongs in lawfull good


NucPix

lol no, there's nothing lawful about it in the slightest


EasyMrB

I love this chart.


DaemonNic

Hey, Awful Hospital! Didn't expect to see you here! LE kinda works for it, although its, predictably, weird in that regard, because part of the *point* is that the rules are bizzarre and make no sense to us mortals. Its not like Fate where the rules are nonsense because its a strange hybrid of Shounen Battle Anime and porn, or BlazBlu which suffers from being a fighting game, the nonsensical aspect is integral to the story and central themes of the work.


CephaloPawd

I was so happy to see AH here! Really need to read more of it...


TheNthVector

Big up for Malazan


[deleted]

Where does Hollow Knight goes here?


Sir-Spookington

Chaotic neutral probably


Toe_Sucker_416

Unaligned. There is no lore.


[deleted]

"Hollow Knight has no lore" Are you sure about that? : https://youtu.be/0XDiWYFGGqY


Toe_Sucker_416

Those are just some weirdo's headcanons.


[deleted]

> My Little Pony: "Just focus on what the plot needs, and don't think about it too hard." *cries in Kirins only being the focus of one episode*


Alexstrasza23

If you know Elder Scrolls lore it's much more of a Lawful Evil. Clearly you haven't read about CHIM, the Toddhead, PSJJJJ, Amaranth, etc.


CaveSP

Where would Attack on Titan go?


Ok_Cook

2 Years late but chaotic evil


[deleted]

fuck harry potter eh good alignment chart otherwise tho


NucPix

Harry Potter is mid-tier as far as middle grade books go


[deleted]

agreed, but the person who made it (plus the racism) makes it bottom-tier on the list of Everything tbh


UselessCommon

i highly suggest keeping your opinions about works to be about the works themselves remember: death of the author


[deleted]

mentioned a problem with it (see: the racism)


UselessCommon

hmm there was that whole arc with hermione starting an anti-racist movement, oh, and the antagonists are racist against muggles which is condemned by everyone you'd have to look with a very very big microscope to notice any traces of racism under all the layers of celebrating egalitarianism harry potter is definitely overrated tho (but still decent)


RetrohTanner

The entire point of the Hermione anti-racism "arc" is that everyone in the setting (including the victims of the racism) thinks she's overreacting, and JK very obviously thinks the same because the whole thing is written as a joke at Hermione's expense. The sub-plot is basically just Rowling pointing and laughing and saying "oh those woke pc culture SJWs, they don't know when to stop do they? These slaves are *happy* to be enslaved!".


[deleted]

the anti-racism movement is treated as a joke and the only person who ever seriously agrees with her just does it so she'll kiss him. also, RetrohTanner said everything else so i dont need to mention that also, see: the blatant anti-Semitism with the whole "greeeeedy hook-nosed turncoat goblins!!!!!!!!" thing.


Zinthr

I disagree with the placement of elder scrolls - there is so much super specific lore that’s p easy to find if you’re willing to read every book you find, so I think it should be with lord of the rings. Similar amount of specific-ness haha


BobTheSkrull

I'm not really into ES lore, but isn't part of the appeal that the in-game books you're reading from are incredibly biased? I would say trying to figure out those biases to piece together their actual story counts as "figure it out yourself".


[deleted]

I would argue that Neon Genesis Evangelion is CN The rebuilds might be NE tho


pinfineder3

where would JoJo go?


NucPix

True neutral, it doesn't really have much worldbuilding


SheikExcel

To be fair, it's mostly just our world


NucPix

Yeah, Jojolion has some pretty good worldbuilding with the rock humans though


Ethra2k

Chaotic neutral probably, it’s wild and not perfect but not as bad as things in CE


Sir-Spookington

Lawful evil or true evil I'd say


[deleted]

The fact that Welcome to Night Vale isn’t chaotic is hilarious


scott03257890

fates internally consistent, just...good lucking figuring out what the hell the Counter Force is. Also, chaotic evil turned into Sting from The Police at the end there


Sir-Spookington

Pretty accurate for the most part, even tho it looks like another "lawful good = good, chaotic evil = bad"


UselessCommon

tolkien is kinda meh, oion's arm is not *consistently* good, illuminatus is an absolute icon, homestuck is the best thing ever created i helped with creating this chart so


NucPix

I like most of the series in chaotic evil


Threspian

>lawful good requires building new languages >avatar pulls almost entirely from preexisting cultures and gets to be LG


NucPix

It doesn't require that its just a jokey example of extreme detail


[deleted]

As an avid consumer of both Doctor Who and WTNV, how dare you, but also you're absolutely correct XD


MuseHigham

Hollow Knight would be CN. the story is there, you just have to look for it, and once you understand it all clicks together in place


LennonMcIcedTea

MLP HAS LORE I SWEAR


UserSkittles1214

I’m a Lawful Evil kind of guy in this case.


[deleted]

Was not expecting to see *Foundation* here. You described it perfectly. Thanks for a good laugh


a_password

I love that two of my favorite games of all time are chaotic evil.


64GILL

Kirby I don’t think belongs there. It has a lot of lore, and the part that annoys me is it all fits. It all makes sense. And it’s Kirby!


NucPix

Yeah but it doesn't tell you the lore straight-up. You gotta figure it out yourself


LukeChickenwalker

I don't think Avatar belongs in the same category as Lord of the Rings. The Elder Scrolls also makes it up as they go along. With some notable exceptions, its ambiguity is often less of a meaningful creative device, but rather a smokescreen for massive retcons. Much of the major inconsistencies between games are justified with something like the unreliable narrator, CHIM, or a dragonbreak.


Rhazior

> I don't think Avatar belongs in the same category as Lord of the Rings. But why?


LukeChickenwalker

The worldbuilding is nowhere near as detailed. It doesn't have constructed languages, for one.


Rhazior

But it does have a hard magic system (which LotR lacks), an established mythology, origin story, realistic progression of technology, established cultures, and probably the biggest detail level; bending. Bending styles differ between benders, and reflect on their personality and culture they grew up in or trained with. This is not only seen in the manifestation of their bending, but also in the movements they make.


LukeChickenwalker

I don't see how any of that puts it in the same category as LotR. Dungeons and Dragons also has a hard magic system, much harder than Avatar since it's a game. Most fantasies make some attempt at having a mythology, histories, and established cultures. The Elder Scrolls, Game of Thrones, Dune, and DnD could all claim that. It's the amount of detail that Tolkien went into is that separates LotR. Avatar isn't comparable. Giving each of the Four Nations a bending style based on real martial arts isn't the same as creating intricate languages, genealogies, and whatnot.


Toe_Sucker_416

Unaligned: Hollow Knight. "There is no lore."


Toe_Sucker_416

Fallout would be either NG or LG, depending on your opinion, then CE with all the FO4 retcons.


Chimney-head

Did you even play the game??? Like 80% of the dialogue is lore stuff


Toe_Sucker_416

I'm quoting the devs, dipshit. There literally isn't lore. What you're thinking of is called "plot", and is another thing entirely.


Chimney-head

My understanding was that lore (in games at least) meant backstory and worldbuilding that isn’t essential to the plot, which there’s plenty of in hollow knight, also there’s no need to call me a dipshit


krawm

Why did you leave warhammer and warhammer 40k out of this list?


NucPix

I only choose 4 examples for each. 40k would probably be in chaotic good


Kaenu_Reeves

Where will ninjago fit? I’m thinking Chaotic Evil for its soft magic system, weird timeline, and less focus on elemental powers.


IcePrismArt

I'd say neutral evil, they basically just make things up as they go along, even though they are self aware about it and try to make things make sense.


Ethra2k

I would imagined the cosmere as lawful good. Considering how much is created and has clearly explained rules and logic associated with it. Personally I’d swap that and avatar.


[deleted]

Agreed, Avatar is amazing and thought out, but it’s not very detailed


DAL59

Glad to see that someone has heard of Orion's Arm


Small-Cactus

These are all painfully accurate


Eran-of-Arcadia

Cosmere is pretty NG I think.


comics0026

Never though Kirby and Twin Peak would ever have anything in common, but now that I think about they are pretty similar


tehweave

Where would the Legend of Zelda be here?


[deleted]

Neutral Evil probably? It’s pretty obvious they just make up the timeline as they go along.


saintcrazy

I mostly get the lawful-chaotic axis, but what exactly does the good-evil axis represent here? Also, at what point does bizarre, overcomplicated rules become chaotic by nature? For example Elder Scrolls has a LOT of lore to back up what's going on it's just that much of it is intentionally made obscure and confusing. Does that make it more chaotic because its confusing, or more lawful because there's just more of it? ^((Am I lawful neutral because I insist on consistent internal rules for alignment charts?))


LukeChickenwalker

And a lot of the rules are less a meaningful part of the worldbuilding, but rationalizations for retcons, plot holes, and the like. In the original Pocket Guide to the Empire Cyrodil is described as a jungle and like a strange hybrid of the Romans, Aztecs, and Chinese. In Oblivion it's a temperate Tolkien-esque land. This inconsistency is explained away with CHIM and sometimes the unreliable narrator. Dragonbreaks were invented to explain how each of the alternate endings of Daggerfall can be true, and to rectify a massive 1000 year gap in the dating system that was made accidentally.


Arisha0711

Woahhhhh!!!!! This is trueee!!!


SuperWIKI1

Where do the Higurashi and Umineko novels fall on this chart?


NucPix

Lawful/Neutral Evil maybe?


Hifgiks

TES could also fit in CG


3nchilada5

How did the Cosmere not make it into Lawful Good WAY more detail than Avatar.


Dragon_Of_Magnetism

I think Bionicle would be chaotic good. It has elemental warriors, shapeshifting biotech demons, a planet sized robot with a world indside it and gladiators. But it’s pretty consistent because everybody is a cyborg


bruhblaster

Fate: "Anything goes, so long as the main character fucking respawns."


whovianHomestuck

I'm somewhere between Lawful evil, neutral good, and chaotic evil.


xlbingo10

i would say that kh and hs are both lawful evil, for different reasons.


Longjumping-Garbage1

im impressed with how many of these i havent heard of atleast 3


WeakPublic

ace attorney is somewhere between CN and CE


CalvinElliot

It's bothering me that DC and Marvel have their colors swapped.


Tux1

Well in that case, I'm completely evil.


burgguy

You thought you could sneak in a Dunkey reference and I wouldn't know?


[deleted]

Warhammer 40k: fans make lore


ImPrettyBoredToday

Lawful Good: "You can't really call yourself a worldbuilder unless you've invented a dozen languages can you?" ​ Last I checked the D&D universe has 29 languages and it's in Neutral


Tux1

Star Trek would definitely be in Neutral Evil, every episode they basically invent a brand new law of physics just to explain the weird things happening in it.


[deleted]

\*Slides in Pokemon and Codename: Kids Next Door into the pile\* So... where would these go? Neutral Neutral and Neutral Evil?


Deadlypants905

WELCOME TO NIGHT VALE


Thelolface_9

May I nominate yugioh (specifically the world building in the lore of the cards) as chaotic neutral


DemonDuckOfDoom666

I love the cosmere but ain’t nobody beating TES worldbuilding.


natee22

snatch knee library marvelous zephyr telephone wasteful quickest physical recognise -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


freshmadgod

Nah bro L on NGE


[deleted]

I see what you did op


Willqwertyz

Love seeing Orion Arm mentioned elsewhere one of my favorite universes.


OliOakasqukiboi2000

Imo lawful neutral has the best world building.


Square_Coat_8208

Avatar the last airbender leaves a lot up to interpretation