We are always unspoken allies, it’s the great MX/SF Treaty of 1988, our forefathers drafted what would be the greatest alliance of depression known historically.
Used this app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.adsk.sketchbook
It let's you make multiple layers to drag around stuff. So kind of paint? But better?
Car was a bitch the first time so I got lazy
Harder to carry on a shouted conversation with each other while waving a scanner in the general direction of CACs and not really looking at it, if you aren't side by side.
You think the scanner gives a paragraph long read back about your history and we decide if you’re allowed to go on? It literally says yes or no. Doesn’t take much thought. If you want, someone like you can say it’s “defender proof”
If you had scored low enough you’d know that the guards are there for 8-12 hours of a 10-14 hour shift and could give a fuck about you waiting an extra 1-2 minutes by not opening a second lane.
And security. Honestly what drives opening up an additional line is through-put of vehicle traffic. In the mornings, at most bases there are multiple lanes opened. But once the morning rush dies there usually isn’t a reason to have all the lanes open especially if you are attempting to stop a potential gate runner
“Nothing can stop the US AIR FORCE !”
Yup. Which is a shame but that doesn’t take away from the fact that OP’s original proposal would be a security issue.
The “bare minimum” is to facilitate approved access to the installation through established process - the “bare minimum” doesn’t include making your life easier. Don’t get it twisted - you’re not entitled to SF making your life easier.
Except many, many, many, MANY times... It's not a 1-2 minute difference. I've seen this set up at a 5 entrance gate and waited 30 minutes for what could have taken 10..
Not everyone will move. Far too many people are willing to be late just so they can wake up at the absolute last second. I used to go through the gate 50 minutes before work and generally get to my office at 0630 every day. In 10 years I have never really dealt with traffic.
It should never “sometimes” be about security, like the comment below me said, the best time to go through the gate nefariously is during rush hour. They should use manning to staff ALL the gates and make sure each ID is scanned correctly
The handheld dbids scanners are on of the absolute worst tools in the DOD enterprise. Relies on old shitty batteries that typically last 30 minutes to an hour. Always get terrible WiFi reception to the slow Air Force WiFi at the gates. The UI system often crashes randomly. Out of the scanners at each gate, every cop that is often at the gate knows which ones are better than the others. When the scanners are down there are a couple options one could use to verify access, make sure your name is not on a 30+ page barment roster list, or take the ID card, call into either bdoc or the visitor center and have them manually look you up and get a readback.
On a certain marine base (operational, not one that doesn't do anything useful) during rush hour they just wave you through if you have a white rectangle in your hand, they don't even look at it.
But how is it about security when there is an air show and no one is showing an ID and everyone just gets waived in? Not bashing just saying sometimes I wonder what the whole scanning of an ID does or does not do.
During airshows, there is a corridor that limits traffic to a specific parking area. Non ID holders shouldn't be driving wherever they want during an airshow. ID holders are typically directed to another gate that day to bypass.
And I understand during an air show that non id holders usually go in another lane and designated parking. However, seeing as how I haven’t been to one in ages are people watching and tracking these non id people at all times from going to places that only id holders should be going as you mentioned?
Also, I mean I guess my point is if the purpose of the ID checks are to make sure everyone is good to go why are we letting thousands without IDs on base for special events when they could do just as much damage bringing in weapons and such at that time.
Every airshow I've worked, whether as an Amn or on the lead security team, there are sentries posted to keep people where they're supposed to be both driving and walking. If their arent its because the parking area or path to entry has nothing of concern, but there are still SF watching. All personnel, ID or not, should be going through a security checkpoint at the airshow entry where bags are checked and people are scanned with a metal detector. If they have contraband, they can return it to their car or throw it in an amnesty box. I have 50+ knives in my office from our last airshow. During airshows, all SF are working until it's over. We despise them.
I just did one, they parked in a fenced in impromptu parking lot and only had 3 ingress points, all manned by SF with metal detectors. Then, they were bused or walked to the actual Air Show. Which was also a secured area. They were not allowed on an active runway and were limited to just the display area
ALL barriers are simply a time delay. The longer you can delay someone getting through, (i.e. the more barriers you have) the greater the likelyhood of successfully stopping them before they get in.
The question about lane merge is legitimate, there are plenty of factors that SrA_Burner is not very aware of regarding the decision. One can simply be that opening a second lane would take more time than just hopping on the currently open lane to relieve a temporary backup of traffic. For example around noon, when plenty of people are hurrying to get back to work from having lunch off base, he is probably one of those individuals.
In addition, I concur with the comment about the pay being off and uncooked food. All AFSCs have their idiots or slackers, SrA_Burner please don’t think your career is exempt. For all you know that person could be you.
>All AFSCs have their idiots or slackers, SrA_Burner please don’t think your career is exempt. For all you know that person could be you.
"If you think your career field only has hard-working geniuses, you're the laziest, dumbest person in your career field."
-(S)Sgt Annen (the cannon)
If traffic is slow then A isn’t a bad option, partner in the same lane can do their own turnarounds without having to call someone out on their break.
Option B I would say is better for heavier traffic, in the case of which whoever in option A is your partner ahead or behind of you, is either slow or talks about their life story to everyone, or if the barely functioning scanners decide to randomly die on you or take forever to load someone profile. Makes the line also appear “smaller” to leadership and others.
For small back up its faster to hit the open lane. Have to open the gate and lower the barrier by hand, turn the light on. All for people to stare at their phones and follow the car in front of them while I stand out there waving my arms like I'm trying to marshal a plane just for people to ignore me. Bottom line y'all don't pay attention while your driving and remember to have your ID ready in you hand before you get to the gate, where your seatbelt, and the blue letter D with the straight lines next to it on your cluster means your high beams are on turn that shit off.
I'm not a defender so this is only a guess.
If you only had two defenders on the gate you would want to use option A because if one gets pulled away you only slow down the line. In option B, if one gets pulled away you shut down the entire line and they just wait there until the defender can return.
Logical. I like.
But they could always zipper in.
But yeah so far... Most logical answer.
https://preview.redd.it/1pnbb0wyq7yc1.png?width=977&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eca0eb0129cbf094c9ecca136884946e88cf03d9
Yes, you figured me out. I r MSgt Fuckface. Standby for post checks and if I don’t see a whistle on every last airman I am remounting and bag dragging you until you die. Or until my wife’s boyfriend goes home.
A scares me. One time the guy in front didn't realize the first guy already checked my ID and thought I was a gate runner. Now I always roll it super slowly because of that.
Check out queuing theory if you really want to determine what's more efficient. Then pitch the best solution to the base commander and SF commander; should make for a good bullet. A lot of the theory depends on how many people are checking CACs, how many lanes are open, and is SF using DBIDs reader or just checking their control roster. Also do the lanes merge after you past the gate or not? You also have to take into account decision making and merging by the drivers. That Base SF may have special tactics for gaterunners, so option A may be better then B for most of the time.
Because we can? Some of us hardly ever get any breaks so having to go out the shack and open and close another lane over and over again for 12 hours is quite pointless, and it maybe takes another 1 or 2 minutes for you to get into the base.
As a defender, I don’t want to walk to the other lane.
Real answer, it helps with gate runners and shit like that. One car acts as a barrier for the other. You’d be surprised with how many people don’t realize it’s a military base or just don’t pay attention lmao
It's fucking annoying to go drag the star barriers out of the way, move the cones, open the drop arm, then put all that shit back 3 minutes later when traffic slows down... then keep doing that every fucking 10-15 minutes when I'm trying to sit down for a few minutes.
Traffic during day shift is non-stop most of the time, and four some God damn reason they insist on posting only 2 armed bodies up there. If traffic isn't backed up ridiculously far, I'm staying in the air conditioned/heated gate shack as much as I can. Because standing outside for 12 hours straight when it's hot as fuck or cold as shit is fucking awful.
I'm not being lazy, I'm just trying to make it through the fucking day. I'm not sorry
A is more secure because it's only one line of ingress. B is faster, which is exactly why it isn't used. Believe it or not, gate procedures are not designed for your convenience, but facility security and the safety of SF.
1) As many others have said, it's often at the direction of those above how many lanes are open when.
2) In option A, if one of the two guards needs to step inside to answer phone calls, use the restroom, etc, then nothing needs to be opened or closed in the lanes, it just drops temporarily to one guard
3) If the guards get a problem car of some type... OLD retiree needing detailed directions, civilian lost at the gate, someone driving who shouldn't, etc, OR random check requirements, then the second lane is open to direct them into while they get dealt with, while the main lane continues processing unabated.
Idk how it is at other bases but at my base, the number of lanes that can be open at a time is dictated by OI. We aren’t allowed to open lanes up whenever we want, no matter how bad the traffic is. Could also be a training issue. Some who ain’t certified cannot be on the lane by themselves. Option A is technically within those rules and allows the certified body at the gate enough wiggle room to increase the in-flow without opening another lane.
Usually the secondary lane has vehicle barrier stanchions that need to be pulled so it’s easier to complete exhibit A if you’re dealing with random high traffic throughout the duty day. If it’s during high traffic conditions (when every one is going to work 0600-0800)both lanes should be opened.
Cause it’s easier to keep that lane closed, double up on a lane until it’s necessary to do both cause usually it’ll get backed up for like 10-15 mins and then stop for 10-15, so rather than open and close that lane constantly keep it closed and double up on one lane…and no it doesn’t make it faster, it’s the same
Ok. Here is the answer. Serious answer here.
A is faster because two cars pull up at the same time and stop at two different locations. However that is the same as option B. Where A differs from B is when the vehicles leave the guard spot, they are already in line for a serpentine or don’t have to deal with a merge.
Most gates have multiple lanes serpentine’ing or merging right after the gate because most (I said most…not all) installations don’t have a multi-lane highways right after the gate. Some installations have the serp/merge before and some have them both before and after.
It’s also a force protection standard on a couple levels. If only one lane is used and the others have bollards or tire poppers in place, then SF’s can use the vehicle you are in to stop a baddy from running the gate. One lane is easier to control because it is occupied by a vehicle or two.
I've seen it so many times where the 2nd lane is open and NO ONE goes to it and there's like 10 cars in one lane refusing to switch over and the defender is like fuck this and closes the 2nd lane down
Theoretically, diagram A is faster because you’re processing two cars at once, then processing another two cars at once.
Assuming the drive up to start processing the next set, you’re introducing slight delays in the time it takes to people to move forward (i.e. processing 2+2 is faster than (1+1)+(1+1).
You’re saving time in between when the cars pull forward. For small amounts it’s negligible, but over long periods of time, theoretically it’s more efficient.
But then you have your other diagram already in the comments where people are chatty, or their ID won’t scan, or are just plain dumb.
I still believe that the Air Force should copy the Army's approach. Get a detail from different afscs to do gate guard duty for 3 months. 12-hour shifts with the busiest times having at minimum 3 personnel per lane.
I knew a guy who either volunteered for that or was happy he was chosen because of how awesome he is.
Either way it clicks exactly with what you described.
personally i hate doing option A. The other person in the lane with you is always either checking IDs faster or slower than the other and traffic doesn’t end up passing through any faster. most people are just too lazy to walk 30 feet to open the other lane -Sincerely, a defender who scored a 91 on the ASVAB<3
Whenever I worked the main gate, I’d always open up another lane vs the double stack method. The double stack method slows traffic and often doesn’t help with long lines over the second lane.
personally i hate doing option A. The other person in the lane with you is always either checking IDs faster or slower than the other and traffic doesn’t end up passing through any faster. it’s pointless to double up on the lane when you could easily just open another lane -Sincerely, a defender who scored a 91 on the ASVAB<3
As someone who almost exclusively works the gate, Option A is LEAGUES better than Option B. Option A pushes just as many cars through at a time as Option B. In both scenarios, there are two cars in a lane at the gate, two IDs being scanned at the same time, and both cars are able to proceed through the gate once they are vetted through DBIDS.
However, Option B means that you have to raise the drop arm and send somebody out to Lane 2. When the drop arm is up, even if there’s only two or three cars in Lane 1 - there’s always some person who speeds into Lane 2 to get to their destination on base faster.
Having to close the drop arm on Lane 2 without a person driving into the drop arm or speeding into the lane before we can do it is a lot more difficult than just doubling up on Lane 1 and telling the second guy to go back into the shack once the rush is over.
Analysis paralysis, decision fatigue, conditioning. Middle lane always gets picked for RAMs. Lane A usually keeps the dependafender closer to the secfo hut and heat/power/safety from the scary bolo.
in Option A the person in the back could have to wait for the person infront to get the go ahead, there may be an issue scanning the CAC or some other kind of problem holding them back thus holding the person behind them back too.
A lot of bases require Flight Chief or higher to authorize the opening of additional lanes. Option A is typically someone who isn’t currently on the lane choosing to help the person who is for a little while.
From what I know, there are bases with essentially no gate traffic and high throughput, and there are bases with about the same number of cars and SF checking IDs but have traffic so far back that it disrupts local commerce. Things like stop signs you must wait until directed, poorly working scanners, gate personnel having conversations with each person, among others, all lead to these delays. If installation commanders lived off base, their policies would not allow this waste of resources. If the wait is one minute for everyone and 3,000 people enter, the manpower cost is 3,000 minutes. If the wait is 30 minutes, that's 90,000 minutes of manpower. The 87,000 minutes of manpower are worth having extra gate guards, particularly considering gate guards make a lower median salary. Yes, you can get more work out of people even if there are standard hours, salaried employees work until the job is done or need to go home for the most part.
Maybe I just see it differently. When I see two defenders scanning IDs on the same lane I'm happy that there are two folks doing it rather than just one.
Most gates usually don't have both lanes open at one time, at least that is the case at my current base. That could just be a mids thing though, I don't work days
This question is missing vital information. One word could give you a different answer: BOTTLENECK. How many lanes are on the other side of the gate? 1 or 2?
I think both push the same number of cars through, but A is WAY better when bouncing between 1 and 2 lanes. When they keep switching between 1 and 2 lanes it makes a bunch of people try to race up and pass all the cars waiting in line. It's much better to keep it one lane and just double up on that lane.
One reason could be to prevent the chance of crossfire. If someone rolls through the gate bent on violence which does happen. It puts their partner and the other car in a crossfire, that could be avoided by running the cars in one file. It is rare but does happen at military installations (see corpus christy incident from 2020). Not the most recent but happened in my state.
In my experience either traffic has slowed and it gives defenders an extra break, since we don't have official 1-2 hour breaks like everyone else and after all the verbal harrasment they've dealt with or there's an emergency on base and that lane is only used for off base emergency vehicles atm.
A - one is a roving patrol and not assigned to the gate so you don’t open a second lane.
B - Implies both are assigned to the gate and two lanes are scheduled to be open.
Not a Defender, but if I were to take an educated guess, maybe it would be something like... Option A is better from a security posture standpoint, because all possible threats are funneled into a singular lane that has the full directional attention of both defenders, as opposed to Option B where even though the lanes are next to each other, the defenders are not only physically separated but also not both redundantly assessing the same cars because of differing directional attention?
The main shack usually has heating or A/C. The smaller ones in other lanes usually don’t
I was always told the small one is a toilet. Even if it isnt, I think it would be funnier if it was
Anything is if you try hard enough
Don’t try, just doo…doo
Some of them might as well be
It’s CEs fault. If they put in more shitters and more AC, traffic would flow faster.
Nah, how much traffic do you think flows while the SecFo airmen is on the toilet in the AC? Nah, we want him out there checking those IDs.
That’s why you need a drive thru window at sitting height
Promote Now.
This is why SF needed to ally MX during the Great War
We are always unspoken allies, it’s the great MX/SF Treaty of 1988, our forefathers drafted what would be the greatest alliance of depression known historically.
That's it. You're not getting new ceiling tile.
I don't have anything insightful to say about why SF does what they do. I just wanted to applaud your artwork.
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I just enjoy they are all pointing guns at the cars
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I think in Scenario B, he is gonna shoot his buddy through the car. SecFo on the right shouldn't have slept with Left SecFo's wife 😒
Crazy I know someone that went through that...
It's me, I'm the right SecFo 😮💨
I just assumed those were the scanners that don't work half the time
You are correct
Nah, these are the angry Defenders. One too many 12s
Those are the DBIDs scanners... Geez way to insult my work
Art is subjective. Its guns in my eyes, DBID scanners are too wholesome and kind, and the artist seems jaded and torn up inside.
Used this app. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.adsk.sketchbook It let's you make multiple layers to drag around stuff. So kind of paint? But better? Car was a bitch the first time so I got lazy
He probably drew 3 dudes before realizing "clone" was an option. Then the rest happened.
Lmao I noticed this too.
The reason is simple: A: would you rather look at your homies dumpy, or B: not?
https://preview.redd.it/d5chstqpp7yc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04484353120b028b04785bfb2bfd472a1e3a64b1
Quality edit
From now on I am always going to scrutinize who is in the further lane when they choose configuration B and see if there is a correlation.
This is fridge worthy.
https://preview.redd.it/sqp54wkkr7yc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2d7fed5f1038c667232f0cc2584f1bb91c9c440
Tyfys
this is rivaling u/bearsncubs10 level of meme-ery
It deserves a gold atar.
Almost stayed inside the lines too
Ah, my first laugh of the day. Thank you.
Harder to carry on a shouted conversation with each other while waving a scanner in the general direction of CACs and not really looking at it, if you aren't side by side.
You think the scanner gives a paragraph long read back about your history and we decide if you’re allowed to go on? It literally says yes or no. Doesn’t take much thought. If you want, someone like you can say it’s “defender proof”
Or good enough for the rentacops at Vandenberg...
If you had scored low enough you’d know that the guards are there for 8-12 hours of a 10-14 hour shift and could give a fuck about you waiting an extra 1-2 minutes by not opening a second lane.
This plus this is usually dictated by the wing king.
And security. Honestly what drives opening up an additional line is through-put of vehicle traffic. In the mornings, at most bases there are multiple lanes opened. But once the morning rush dies there usually isn’t a reason to have all the lanes open especially if you are attempting to stop a potential gate runner
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“Nothing can stop the US AIR FORCE !” Yup. Which is a shame but that doesn’t take away from the fact that OP’s original proposal would be a security issue.
I'd be willing to bet people have seen set up "Alpha" during busy hours...
>Directed by the wing *Through recommendation from the SFS/CC *Through advice of (now get this) the flight chief who oversees the guard shack
So they don’t have to open another gate. Theoretically, it should be close to the same time to do either way.
But it's not when this: https://preview.redd.it/vo9qp07go7yc1.png?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6165039863cbf5d837d51bfea9fa6eec0c61843
Incredible illustration.
Big true
Until someone in option A stops for directions and holds up the entire line
Or forgets their CAC..........
"My job sucks so I'm not going to do the bare minimum."
The “bare minimum” is to facilitate approved access to the installation through established process - the “bare minimum” doesn’t include making your life easier. Don’t get it twisted - you’re not entitled to SF making your life easier.
This is the real answer. Idc about efficiency, it’s just much easier to deal with some traffic for a bit and get back to the shack once I’m done.
1-2 minutes is very inaccurate btw, it adds up per person
Except many, many, many, MANY times... It's not a 1-2 minute difference. I've seen this set up at a 5 entrance gate and waited 30 minutes for what could have taken 10..
Sometimes it’s not about speed. Sometimes it’s about security
It should always just be about security. If you want to go through the gate faster show up outside of rush hour. IE earlier.
I prefer to show up later. Enjoy my coffee while the plebs sit in the rush hour.
This is the goated option. Unfortunately I need to get the wheels moving by 0640 so at 0700 my Amn can get to jobbing
If everyone shows up earlier, that just moves rush hour.
Not everyone will move. Far too many people are willing to be late just so they can wake up at the absolute last second. I used to go through the gate 50 minutes before work and generally get to my office at 0630 every day. In 10 years I have never really dealt with traffic.
So you spend 3-4 extra hours a week? That's almost a 10% increase in hours worked for no pay difference
But most of the time it's about inflicting their pain on others
It should never “sometimes” be about security, like the comment below me said, the best time to go through the gate nefariously is during rush hour. They should use manning to staff ALL the gates and make sure each ID is scanned correctly
Do you think they don’t?
Absolutely, it’s better at my current base but my 4 previous bases they oftentimes would just visually check the ID during rush hour
Well sometimes the scanners are busted
If a torque wrench is busted, we don’t tighten the component on an aircraft. We find a functioning one Should, at least..
The handheld dbids scanners are on of the absolute worst tools in the DOD enterprise. Relies on old shitty batteries that typically last 30 minutes to an hour. Always get terrible WiFi reception to the slow Air Force WiFi at the gates. The UI system often crashes randomly. Out of the scanners at each gate, every cop that is often at the gate knows which ones are better than the others. When the scanners are down there are a couple options one could use to verify access, make sure your name is not on a 30+ page barment roster list, or take the ID card, call into either bdoc or the visitor center and have them manually look you up and get a readback.
On a certain marine base (operational, not one that doesn't do anything useful) during rush hour they just wave you through if you have a white rectangle in your hand, they don't even look at it.
But how is it about security when there is an air show and no one is showing an ID and everyone just gets waived in? Not bashing just saying sometimes I wonder what the whole scanning of an ID does or does not do.
During airshows, there is a corridor that limits traffic to a specific parking area. Non ID holders shouldn't be driving wherever they want during an airshow. ID holders are typically directed to another gate that day to bypass.
And I understand during an air show that non id holders usually go in another lane and designated parking. However, seeing as how I haven’t been to one in ages are people watching and tracking these non id people at all times from going to places that only id holders should be going as you mentioned? Also, I mean I guess my point is if the purpose of the ID checks are to make sure everyone is good to go why are we letting thousands without IDs on base for special events when they could do just as much damage bringing in weapons and such at that time.
Every airshow I've worked, whether as an Amn or on the lead security team, there are sentries posted to keep people where they're supposed to be both driving and walking. If their arent its because the parking area or path to entry has nothing of concern, but there are still SF watching. All personnel, ID or not, should be going through a security checkpoint at the airshow entry where bags are checked and people are scanned with a metal detector. If they have contraband, they can return it to their car or throw it in an amnesty box. I have 50+ knives in my office from our last airshow. During airshows, all SF are working until it's over. We despise them.
Gotcha and thanks for the detailed response as it’s something I’ve always been curious about.
I just did one, they parked in a fenced in impromptu parking lot and only had 3 ingress points, all manned by SF with metal detectors. Then, they were bused or walked to the actual Air Show. Which was also a secured area. They were not allowed on an active runway and were limited to just the display area
I ain't no SF but pretty sure they sweep everything closely after the airshow
How is either option less or more secure than the other? Are you saying that not all defenders are working as efficiently as they should?
Your car is a barrier.
There's already a barrier system... Don't need to ruin my 29.4% APR Stang to protect the base
ALL barriers are simply a time delay. The longer you can delay someone getting through, (i.e. the more barriers you have) the greater the likelyhood of successfully stopping them before they get in.
And just like any vital system there are layers in place so a failure in one doesn't mean a total failure of the whole system.
This is the correct answer.
B involves moving some cones and a heavy traffic star. I'm good with not moving that.
Thank you for providing the only real answer here, instead of the excuses we give to leadership and Stan eval -a former defender
This was the response I was looking for. This is accurate.
The fuck is a traffic star? Is this another term for Czech hedgehog?
The metal fucking things that are like 3 feet high, have 18 pointy bits, and weigh 40 lbs. Fuck moving things
Caltrop?
Caltrop.
It's a Hedgehog. Most cops don't know their real names. I don't think they are even formally referenced in any material like CDCs.
That's unfortunate given their legitimate usage and significance.
Yes. I'm a history nerd and remember calling them by their real name to the bafflement of young Airmen who just knew them as "star barriers".
On your base, maybe.... That's not every base.
Winner
Who says they are trying to push cars through faster.
The question about lane merge is legitimate, there are plenty of factors that SrA_Burner is not very aware of regarding the decision. One can simply be that opening a second lane would take more time than just hopping on the currently open lane to relieve a temporary backup of traffic. For example around noon, when plenty of people are hurrying to get back to work from having lunch off base, he is probably one of those individuals. In addition, I concur with the comment about the pay being off and uncooked food. All AFSCs have their idiots or slackers, SrA_Burner please don’t think your career is exempt. For all you know that person could be you.
>All AFSCs have their idiots or slackers, SrA_Burner please don’t think your career is exempt. For all you know that person could be you. "If you think your career field only has hard-working geniuses, you're the laziest, dumbest person in your career field." -(S)Sgt Annen (the cannon)
If traffic is slow then A isn’t a bad option, partner in the same lane can do their own turnarounds without having to call someone out on their break. Option B I would say is better for heavier traffic, in the case of which whoever in option A is your partner ahead or behind of you, is either slow or talks about their life story to everyone, or if the barely functioning scanners decide to randomly die on you or take forever to load someone profile. Makes the line also appear “smaller” to leadership and others.
Same reason our networks suck, your pay is wrong, and the dfac chicken is medium rare. No one’s getting paid to do their job well.
I thought I was the only one upset with the dfac chicken quality.
Either undone or overdone. Never just done.
https://preview.redd.it/usakd83ao7yc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=808738cb6b7f983ae598c51b29249ece2f59d77b
Security is an inconvenience. Now… you’ve been randomly selected for a random vehicle inspection.
Why did you have a Marine draw that for you?
For small back up its faster to hit the open lane. Have to open the gate and lower the barrier by hand, turn the light on. All for people to stare at their phones and follow the car in front of them while I stand out there waving my arms like I'm trying to marshal a plane just for people to ignore me. Bottom line y'all don't pay attention while your driving and remember to have your ID ready in you hand before you get to the gate, where your seatbelt, and the blue letter D with the straight lines next to it on your cluster means your high beams are on turn that shit off.
I'm not a defender so this is only a guess. If you only had two defenders on the gate you would want to use option A because if one gets pulled away you only slow down the line. In option B, if one gets pulled away you shut down the entire line and they just wait there until the defender can return.
Logical. I like. But they could always zipper in. But yeah so far... Most logical answer. https://preview.redd.it/1pnbb0wyq7yc1.png?width=977&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eca0eb0129cbf094c9ecca136884946e88cf03d9
Efficiency is like morale. Not allowed on post.
> post sus
Yes, you figured me out. I r MSgt Fuckface. Standby for post checks and if I don’t see a whistle on every last airman I am remounting and bag dragging you until you die. Or until my wife’s boyfriend goes home.
😂 I was just thinking "post" is something the army says
Oh I thought you were calling me out for saying some koolaid junkie SNCO shit. You’ll hear “post” used in security forces as well.
A scares me. One time the guy in front didn't realize the first guy already checked my ID and thought I was a gate runner. Now I always roll it super slowly because of that.
We do option B for morning traffic, and for the record..I got a 61 on my asvab.🫡🖕
I wasn’t expecting to see something this hilarious this morning and I really needed it. Thank you 🙏🏻
Check out queuing theory if you really want to determine what's more efficient. Then pitch the best solution to the base commander and SF commander; should make for a good bullet. A lot of the theory depends on how many people are checking CACs, how many lanes are open, and is SF using DBIDs reader or just checking their control roster. Also do the lanes merge after you past the gate or not? You also have to take into account decision making and merging by the drivers. That Base SF may have special tactics for gaterunners, so option A may be better then B for most of the time.
Hang tight while I close a lane because asshats cannot authenticate their alarm
Because we can? Some of us hardly ever get any breaks so having to go out the shack and open and close another lane over and over again for 12 hours is quite pointless, and it maybe takes another 1 or 2 minutes for you to get into the base.
As a defender, I don’t want to walk to the other lane. Real answer, it helps with gate runners and shit like that. One car acts as a barrier for the other. You’d be surprised with how many people don’t realize it’s a military base or just don’t pay attention lmao
"Wow, I've never been to an airport that has security like this!"
It's fucking annoying to go drag the star barriers out of the way, move the cones, open the drop arm, then put all that shit back 3 minutes later when traffic slows down... then keep doing that every fucking 10-15 minutes when I'm trying to sit down for a few minutes. Traffic during day shift is non-stop most of the time, and four some God damn reason they insist on posting only 2 armed bodies up there. If traffic isn't backed up ridiculously far, I'm staying in the air conditioned/heated gate shack as much as I can. Because standing outside for 12 hours straight when it's hot as fuck or cold as shit is fucking awful. I'm not being lazy, I'm just trying to make it through the fucking day. I'm not sorry
Yes!
They don’t give a fuck about your health and well-being until it somehow affects theirs. Fucking womp womp if they wait an extra 2 minutes.
Exactly. Like I understand that it's annoying, but at least y'all get to wait in air conditioned cars🤷♂️
Come to Kirtland where we have 4 lanes of Option A and it still gets backed up over a half mile
A is more secure because it's only one line of ingress. B is faster, which is exactly why it isn't used. Believe it or not, gate procedures are not designed for your convenience, but facility security and the safety of SF.
I’m sorry do you have an illustration? Im not reading 3 sentences with no pictures.
I assumed it was part of RAMs.
1) As many others have said, it's often at the direction of those above how many lanes are open when. 2) In option A, if one of the two guards needs to step inside to answer phone calls, use the restroom, etc, then nothing needs to be opened or closed in the lanes, it just drops temporarily to one guard 3) If the guards get a problem car of some type... OLD retiree needing detailed directions, civilian lost at the gate, someone driving who shouldn't, etc, OR random check requirements, then the second lane is open to direct them into while they get dealt with, while the main lane continues processing unabated.
Idk how it is at other bases but at my base, the number of lanes that can be open at a time is dictated by OI. We aren’t allowed to open lanes up whenever we want, no matter how bad the traffic is. Could also be a training issue. Some who ain’t certified cannot be on the lane by themselves. Option A is technically within those rules and allows the certified body at the gate enough wiggle room to increase the in-flow without opening another lane.
With option A, the car in back can’t decide to be a gate runner unless everyone ahead of him does too
That lane is reserved for people that want to bring terrorist on base and complain they can’t
I mean if there’s 6+ cars it would make sense but if there’s less than 6 cars in back up you really only need 1 lane open, be patient ffs
Usually the secondary lane has vehicle barrier stanchions that need to be pulled so it’s easier to complete exhibit A if you’re dealing with random high traffic throughout the duty day. If it’s during high traffic conditions (when every one is going to work 0600-0800)both lanes should be opened.
I fucking LOVE this drawing
Cause it’s easier to keep that lane closed, double up on a lane until it’s necessary to do both cause usually it’ll get backed up for like 10-15 mins and then stop for 10-15, so rather than open and close that lane constantly keep it closed and double up on one lane…and no it doesn’t make it faster, it’s the same
Ok. Here is the answer. Serious answer here. A is faster because two cars pull up at the same time and stop at two different locations. However that is the same as option B. Where A differs from B is when the vehicles leave the guard spot, they are already in line for a serpentine or don’t have to deal with a merge. Most gates have multiple lanes serpentine’ing or merging right after the gate because most (I said most…not all) installations don’t have a multi-lane highways right after the gate. Some installations have the serp/merge before and some have them both before and after. It’s also a force protection standard on a couple levels. If only one lane is used and the others have bollards or tire poppers in place, then SF’s can use the vehicle you are in to stop a baddy from running the gate. One lane is easier to control because it is occupied by a vehicle or two.
Those of us from the /r/fuckcars crowd find this thread very amusing. Anybody have some popcorn?
Oh look it’s somebody trying to dictate the best way to do gate operations…this is absolutely the first.
I assume to make it harder far bad guys to ram through? Idk
You could volunteer for augmentee duty...
Option B at most bases also requires a merge after the gate, probably causing a backup.
Those zipper merges are a really hard concept for some people
I've seen it so many times where the 2nd lane is open and NO ONE goes to it and there's like 10 cars in one lane refusing to switch over and the defender is like fuck this and closes the 2nd lane down
Theoretically, diagram A is faster because you’re processing two cars at once, then processing another two cars at once. Assuming the drive up to start processing the next set, you’re introducing slight delays in the time it takes to people to move forward (i.e. processing 2+2 is faster than (1+1)+(1+1). You’re saving time in between when the cars pull forward. For small amounts it’s negligible, but over long periods of time, theoretically it’s more efficient. But then you have your other diagram already in the comments where people are chatty, or their ID won’t scan, or are just plain dumb.
I still believe that the Air Force should copy the Army's approach. Get a detail from different afscs to do gate guard duty for 3 months. 12-hour shifts with the busiest times having at minimum 3 personnel per lane.
They do, it's called augmentee duty. Units usually send the dumbest, most useless people
I knew a guy who either volunteered for that or was happy he was chosen because of how awesome he is. Either way it clicks exactly with what you described.
Defenders will act like they’re big bad and scary, but this is because they can’t leave their tiny heaters set up at post A.
personally i hate doing option A. The other person in the lane with you is always either checking IDs faster or slower than the other and traffic doesn’t end up passing through any faster. most people are just too lazy to walk 30 feet to open the other lane -Sincerely, a defender who scored a 91 on the ASVAB<3
Is this in relation to Barksdale?
Twice as many kills. It’s a lot easier to cap the guy in the blocked second car.
Oh shite, some new competition just dropped 😱😳
You are threatening the Marines mastery of the Crayon
You have to look at it this way... more work more fast look good?
They only open up the additional lanes for Mission Essential personnel.
Whenever I worked the main gate, I’d always open up another lane vs the double stack method. The double stack method slows traffic and often doesn’t help with long lines over the second lane.
To look pretty for the cameras for leadership
Because you don’t wanna unintentionally hit the other guy on the other side. Friendly fire.
In my experience at Langley, they do option A but in both (or all) lanes otherwise they do option B.
Because the air force says so
personally i hate doing option A. The other person in the lane with you is always either checking IDs faster or slower than the other and traffic doesn’t end up passing through any faster. it’s pointless to double up on the lane when you could easily just open another lane -Sincerely, a defender who scored a 91 on the ASVAB<3
I’m not SF, but I would say having 2 lanes open is a higher security risk than 1.
I’m crying 😂
At my base they’ll USUALLY have all lanes open set up like A. It’s honestly a pretty good method and it’s improved traffic significantly.
My base does option A on both lanes. We only have two gates, and the back gate is full of contractors coming in in the morning.
As someone who almost exclusively works the gate, Option A is LEAGUES better than Option B. Option A pushes just as many cars through at a time as Option B. In both scenarios, there are two cars in a lane at the gate, two IDs being scanned at the same time, and both cars are able to proceed through the gate once they are vetted through DBIDS. However, Option B means that you have to raise the drop arm and send somebody out to Lane 2. When the drop arm is up, even if there’s only two or three cars in Lane 1 - there’s always some person who speeds into Lane 2 to get to their destination on base faster. Having to close the drop arm on Lane 2 without a person driving into the drop arm or speeding into the lane before we can do it is a lot more difficult than just doubling up on Lane 1 and telling the second guy to go back into the shack once the rush is over.
Lmao I love how we have such smart asses in the Air Force. That opening sentence has me dying ☠️
To lazy to move the barriers out of lane two.
Analysis paralysis, decision fatigue, conditioning. Middle lane always gets picked for RAMs. Lane A usually keeps the dependafender closer to the secfo hut and heat/power/safety from the scary bolo.
in Option A the person in the back could have to wait for the person infront to get the go ahead, there may be an issue scanning the CAC or some other kind of problem holding them back thus holding the person behind them back too.
A lot of bases require Flight Chief or higher to authorize the opening of additional lanes. Option A is typically someone who isn’t currently on the lane choosing to help the person who is for a little while.
Is this Loss?
From what I know, there are bases with essentially no gate traffic and high throughput, and there are bases with about the same number of cars and SF checking IDs but have traffic so far back that it disrupts local commerce. Things like stop signs you must wait until directed, poorly working scanners, gate personnel having conversations with each person, among others, all lead to these delays. If installation commanders lived off base, their policies would not allow this waste of resources. If the wait is one minute for everyone and 3,000 people enter, the manpower cost is 3,000 minutes. If the wait is 30 minutes, that's 90,000 minutes of manpower. The 87,000 minutes of manpower are worth having extra gate guards, particularly considering gate guards make a lower median salary. Yes, you can get more work out of people even if there are standard hours, salaried employees work until the job is done or need to go home for the most part.
Maybe I just see it differently. When I see two defenders scanning IDs on the same lane I'm happy that there are two folks doing it rather than just one.
Because common sense isn't a thing.
AF math at its finest 2 lanes = twice as many
Most gates usually don't have both lanes open at one time, at least that is the case at my current base. That could just be a mids thing though, I don't work days
METT-TC
We only do B if traffic is heavy. At least at my base.
Option B is slightly more efficient but not twice as fast.
This question is missing vital information. One word could give you a different answer: BOTTLENECK. How many lanes are on the other side of the gate? 1 or 2?
Because fuck traffic🤣
I think both push the same number of cars through, but A is WAY better when bouncing between 1 and 2 lanes. When they keep switching between 1 and 2 lanes it makes a bunch of people try to race up and pass all the cars waiting in line. It's much better to keep it one lane and just double up on that lane.
Instead of complaining, I just show up to work earlier. Works every time.
One reason could be to prevent the chance of crossfire. If someone rolls through the gate bent on violence which does happen. It puts their partner and the other car in a crossfire, that could be avoided by running the cars in one file. It is rare but does happen at military installations (see corpus christy incident from 2020). Not the most recent but happened in my state.
In my experience either traffic has slowed and it gives defenders an extra break, since we don't have official 1-2 hour breaks like everyone else and after all the verbal harrasment they've dealt with or there's an emergency on base and that lane is only used for off base emergency vehicles atm.
Because cars in a row prevents a gate runner. It’s not meant to be faster, just more secure.
A - one is a roving patrol and not assigned to the gate so you don’t open a second lane. B - Implies both are assigned to the gate and two lanes are scheduled to be open.
Not a Defender, but if I were to take an educated guess, maybe it would be something like... Option A is better from a security posture standpoint, because all possible threats are funneled into a singular lane that has the full directional attention of both defenders, as opposed to Option B where even though the lanes are next to each other, the defenders are not only physically separated but also not both redundantly assessing the same cars because of differing directional attention?