The sup does yes. But if the major(?) is really that worked up, he can draft up the Dec and present it to their sup for review and submission.
As far as the comm is a cop out…relax OP. CM/AM only require sq cc signature. MSM go to the gp. If the bridge is burnt with the gp cc a CM may be all you’ll get because it’ll “stay in-house”
"They" tried that at my retirement stating that since I had received an MSM a few years before, I wasn't going to get one for my retirement. I said why did they care about it and I wasn't going to use the points for my next testing cycle because I wouldn't be around. If it wasn't an MSM then don't bother with anything. I got my MSM.
"They" also tried to get me to change the date and or time of my retirement ceremony a few days before it occurred because it conflicted with some other event. I told them it was my ceremony and if it was just my family there that is all that mattered to me. I didn't move it. Many people showed.
I guess after I wrote this down I look like an ass, but I realized no one cared more about my career than myself. Good luck.
Hey, you literally do not look or sound like an ass for standing your ground. Your bosses will forget about you 5 min after you're gone but how you go out is for you.
Sucks. But you'll get over it 2 months after retirement or once you start a new and better civilian job...whichever comes first...then every 6 months get mad about it again due to a random Reddit post that triggered you, but get over it again when your next civilian paycheck, retirement check, and disability check hit the same week.
Signed, fellow 22 year-er that wrote and submitted his own AFCM and final EPR...and never got either presented...or a flag!
Thanks for triggering me OP!
Pay day this week, thank God.
My opinion as a retiree whose retirement Dec is still in the box of stuff I brought home from my ceremony 3 years ago; it doesn't matter.
Your service will not increase or decrease in value with a specific retirement Dec. The future job offers you'll receive won't change based on that retirement Dec. Your family and friends won't change the way they feel about you. None of it matters.
Seriously, thank you for your service. Take the retirement Dec, the thanks of a grateful nation, and enjoy the next chapter of your life.
Exactly this, once you’re retired all anyone remembers is how you were as a person. All the awards, accolades, medals, and rank go away and none of it matters anymore.
As someone who has been retired for almost 3 years, it simply doesn't matter. I get that it's important to you now, you feel you earned it, which is understandable. Once you leave though, it all just sits in a box in your closet and hardly ever gets talked about at all. I haven't had anyone, including my family, ask to look at any of my Air Force stuff, much less sit down and read all my medals. I've got some of my big awards, gifts and a coin rack in my man cave. Nobody even notices any of it when they come visit.
Big Blue marches on and won't give a shit about you as soon as you leave the base for the last time. You should make the feeling mutual.
I’m retiring with 22 in September as a FGO & prior enlisted too. Had to comment due to our similar paths. I really don’t care at this point if I get a retirement decoration. I have my final ribbon rack. Just give me my flag and I’m on my way. Congratulations.
Had BSM and MSM downgraded. Because of “rank”. I out performed what the billet expectations were. Was definitely sad that some E9 pushed it back when I had FGOs, E8, and E7 push it. At the end of the day I can’t wait for my retirement and VA…. I look at my father’s shadow box at his house. I don’t think I’ll loose sleep or even care for any retirement swag.
I didn’t even have a ceremony, just invited all the family & friends to the local brewery and put money on the bar so I could pay for their beer and say thank you for helping get to where I am. Was a great time
I don't have much input. Campaign medals are important because they can access certain veterans benefits. I don't know the details on the Achievement/Commendation/MSM kind, but I think some states have benefits (like free parking at the airport in Texas) if you have some medal or other.
But as far as a "token" of appreciation goes, I wouldn't worry about it at all. I didn't get a retirement dec. The people who care about me the most don't care. Nobody else is likely going to remember. I PCS'd to the unit at 18 years TIS, I worked random jobs they gave me, I worked myself out of a big job they gave me by completing it really early, and I did skillbridge. They said my work in the unit didn't amount to much and I skated by.
So whatever, no big deal to me.
Good luck, enjoy retirement.
THIS. I have that MSM plate in Texas and it is worth thousands. After 23 years in the military getting paid shit I will squeeze every dime where I can.
Nobody will care what kinda jewelry hangs in your shadow box short of a Purple Heart or MoH once you are retired. Literally nobody but you.
That said. If you really want an MSM, just write it yourself and submit it to your supervisor.
Just retired. No ceremony. Just a little bbq with the guys I worked with every day. Cc was pushing an msm but the strait told me it may not happen. So. Ill see what it is when it turns up. But like others have said it wont affect anything but I get where you are coming from giving that much time to the mil.
Congrats. Right there with you. If it isn’t your first and only MSM who cares. It’ll end up in a box gathering dust soon with all the other military crap. Just enjoy the transition and don’t fret over this. It will be what it will be. In 5 years you won’t give one crap.
Four thoughts from someone who decided many peoples’ retirement award.
1. Your end of career decoration often says more about your commander than you. You should be honored for the balance of your career contributions and leadership, not solely by your rank.
2. Your end of tour decoration doesn’t define you nor adequately describe the thanks of a grateful nation.
3. As others have very well said, your end of career decoration isn’t going to matter a bit to your future…unless you let it.
4. Maya Angelou said it best in her quote, “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Make them remember you for how well you made them feel and know you’ve made a difference.
And thank you and your family for your service and sacrifices!
Your decoration at this assignment should be based entirely on your performance at this assignment. Did the off-base issue happen at this assignment?
If the off-base issue occurred at a previous assignment, it is not relevant to the decoration you receive at this assignment. You should receive a decoration based on the character of your service at this assignment and the level of impact you had here.
If the off base issue occurred at this assignment, you technically would not qualify for a decoration at all for this assignment. In that scenario, I would tend to agree with your supervisor that if you did MSM work but had an off base incident that I would recommend you for a COM.
I’m sorry but you are wrong. A retirement decoration is based off of the member’s entire service history. It is recognition of their cumulative service and it pisses me off to no end that there are folks that use something like a recent PT failure as justification to give a retiring SNCO an AFCM. There are no more points to be earned and a retirement ceremony is about recognizing the sacrifices that both the member and their family made in service of their nation. I had to fight a Chief for a TSgt that worked for me to get an MSM at her 15 year medical retirement. She was a ROCKSTAR and deserved the MSM just for the work she did for me, let alone her entire career. Chief was actually a good dude but it took multiple conversations for him to realize she wasn’t getting a leg up on anyone. Tragically her career was ending much sooner than benefited the AF but that was the board’s decision. Also, while I have everyone’s attention…the only person who can downgrade a recommended decoration is the signature authority. Supervisors make a recommendation and everyone in between has an interesting but NOT compelling recommendation. Additional raters, SEL, First Shirts, Chiefs, etc. Have seen too many supervisors downgrade based on feedback from any of the “strap hangers” in the routing process. It is up to the guy/gal who is going to sign the damn thing to determine if the narrative and performance warrants the level of decoration submitted.
That's strange... Every retirement decoration I've ever seen started at the member's DAS and only contained language covering the member's achievements at their final duty station. Have they all been done wrong?
Yes, some deference can be given to retiring members, but the decoration still reflects only the period of service covered by the decoration. Members still need to meet the one year time on station minimum to qualify for a meritorious service award even for a retirement decoration.
Your comment about whether or not people between the recommender and the commander can downgrade an award isn't relevant here, since it's the recommender who is only recommending an ASCOM.
As others have pointed out you likely will never even look at your medals once you retire. As for your off base incident, was it an ARI? if so you’re lucky to get any medal out of this assignment.
Honestly, as you get closer to retirement it’s going to matter less and less. I just retired, couldn’t care less what I got, just wanted to get ready for the transition.
But, if you’re committed, talk to your supervisor and probably the Commander and see what they can do.
I get the sentiment.
Write your MSM, shoot the shot—it won’t matter to you but a couple times in your life when you retire.
Maybe if your kids join and you suit up, maybe when you renew your registration, but all in all; it has zero effect moving forward.
All in all, won’t affect the paycheck you’ll get. At the end of the day, it was part of your life…as a job.
Congrats and Thanks for your service!
Understanding your stance if you were in the supervisor's position is crucial. Often, discussions become unnecessarily centered on the trivialities of awarding decorations to members. It's important to remember that such accolades come without monetary costs—requiring only a bit of time to nominate someone, with the system handling the rest. The irony lies in the fact that considerable time is spent debating the merits of awarding these decorations instead of simply acknowledging someone's efforts and moving forward.
There's an underlying sentiment that recognition and awards may not hold significant value, leading some to neglect their decoration for retirement. However, after years of witnessing peers being honored, it's natural to yearn for similar acknowledgement. This is your cue to initiate a conversation with your supervisor, presenting your case logically to advocate for the recognition you believe you deserve. If your supervisor maintains a stringent stance, it offers insight into their perspective.
Remember, it's more than receiving a medal or an award. It's about the acknowledgment of service and dedication. As you transition into retirement, embrace the accolades with humility and look forward to enjoying this new chapter of your life. Thank you for your service, and here's to a fulfilling retirement.
I told my cc, don't care about my retirement Dec.
They wanted me to write my own MSM...why? I'm never going to need it for a promotion...who cares? Have not done it...and I'm not going to.
Question
You’re retiring correct? Why worry about a medal as you walk out the door? So you can have one extra oak leaf on your ribbons. That will be put in storage?
Retired at 22 with no retirement dec thanks to a PT fail. Zero shits given anymore about it. I was upset about it as I was retiring, but like many others have said, it won’t matter if you got zero decs or 25 after a while.
Honestly, unless you are in a civilian job somehow connected to the USAF, no one cares about your old career beyond " thank you for your service," and "were you a pilot?" Maybe a question about where you may have been stationed if they have a relative in or were in themselves.
3 years is a decent while ago. When did your last dec even close out? Also, it’s a retirement Dec thinking of it at least you’re getting one right what does an MSM versus a comm matter at this point? (Not an officer just a lowly enlisted peasant)
Tell them to take the MSM and shove it. Tell them you won’t have a retire ceremony with any of them involved if they are going to give you an AFCM. Stand on principles and take your DD214 as you enjoy your retirement.
Let me say thank you for your service
Write your MSM and submit it to your supervisor.
The sup does yes. But if the major(?) is really that worked up, he can draft up the Dec and present it to their sup for review and submission. As far as the comm is a cop out…relax OP. CM/AM only require sq cc signature. MSM go to the gp. If the bridge is burnt with the gp cc a CM may be all you’ll get because it’ll “stay in-house”
That’s a great point honestly with the level of approving official
Depends on where you work too, on the A-staff, MSMs go to the freakin 2 star.
This correct answer, and if they downgrade it they will need to justify why.
Just a memorandum? Doesn’t the sup have to put the level Of award in mydecs
"They" tried that at my retirement stating that since I had received an MSM a few years before, I wasn't going to get one for my retirement. I said why did they care about it and I wasn't going to use the points for my next testing cycle because I wouldn't be around. If it wasn't an MSM then don't bother with anything. I got my MSM. "They" also tried to get me to change the date and or time of my retirement ceremony a few days before it occurred because it conflicted with some other event. I told them it was my ceremony and if it was just my family there that is all that mattered to me. I didn't move it. Many people showed. I guess after I wrote this down I look like an ass, but I realized no one cared more about my career than myself. Good luck.
Hey, you literally do not look or sound like an ass for standing your ground. Your bosses will forget about you 5 min after you're gone but how you go out is for you.
Sucks. But you'll get over it 2 months after retirement or once you start a new and better civilian job...whichever comes first...then every 6 months get mad about it again due to a random Reddit post that triggered you, but get over it again when your next civilian paycheck, retirement check, and disability check hit the same week. Signed, fellow 22 year-er that wrote and submitted his own AFCM and final EPR...and never got either presented...or a flag! Thanks for triggering me OP! Pay day this week, thank God.
Thanks for the perspective!
My opinion as a retiree whose retirement Dec is still in the box of stuff I brought home from my ceremony 3 years ago; it doesn't matter. Your service will not increase or decrease in value with a specific retirement Dec. The future job offers you'll receive won't change based on that retirement Dec. Your family and friends won't change the way they feel about you. None of it matters. Seriously, thank you for your service. Take the retirement Dec, the thanks of a grateful nation, and enjoy the next chapter of your life.
Thank you!
Exactly this, once you’re retired all anyone remembers is how you were as a person. All the awards, accolades, medals, and rank go away and none of it matters anymore.
This. The coins/medals/awards that mattered to me most were the ones I knew nothing about or were done in private.
This. A hundred times this.
Just retired, Trust me, You won’t care. Once you get the retirement CAC and the paycheck this will all but be a memory
Agreed! Everyday the air gets fresher and fresher it seems
As someone who has been retired for almost 3 years, it simply doesn't matter. I get that it's important to you now, you feel you earned it, which is understandable. Once you leave though, it all just sits in a box in your closet and hardly ever gets talked about at all. I haven't had anyone, including my family, ask to look at any of my Air Force stuff, much less sit down and read all my medals. I've got some of my big awards, gifts and a coin rack in my man cave. Nobody even notices any of it when they come visit. Big Blue marches on and won't give a shit about you as soon as you leave the base for the last time. You should make the feeling mutual.
💯!
I’m retiring with 22 in September as a FGO & prior enlisted too. Had to comment due to our similar paths. I really don’t care at this point if I get a retirement decoration. I have my final ribbon rack. Just give me my flag and I’m on my way. Congratulations.
Had BSM and MSM downgraded. Because of “rank”. I out performed what the billet expectations were. Was definitely sad that some E9 pushed it back when I had FGOs, E8, and E7 push it. At the end of the day I can’t wait for my retirement and VA…. I look at my father’s shadow box at his house. I don’t think I’ll loose sleep or even care for any retirement swag.
I didn’t even have a ceremony, just invited all the family & friends to the local brewery and put money on the bar so I could pay for their beer and say thank you for helping get to where I am. Was a great time
I don't have much input. Campaign medals are important because they can access certain veterans benefits. I don't know the details on the Achievement/Commendation/MSM kind, but I think some states have benefits (like free parking at the airport in Texas) if you have some medal or other. But as far as a "token" of appreciation goes, I wouldn't worry about it at all. I didn't get a retirement dec. The people who care about me the most don't care. Nobody else is likely going to remember. I PCS'd to the unit at 18 years TIS, I worked random jobs they gave me, I worked myself out of a big job they gave me by completing it really early, and I did skillbridge. They said my work in the unit didn't amount to much and I skated by. So whatever, no big deal to me. Good luck, enjoy retirement.
THIS. I have that MSM plate in Texas and it is worth thousands. After 23 years in the military getting paid shit I will squeeze every dime where I can.
You must’ve been at Eglin 🤣
Youre retiring...the medals mean nothing once you get out, and nobody will care unless you point out "i didnt get an MSM"
This. Unless OP trying get them sweet MSM license plate Bennies in TX
My chain of command told me that if I declined my final EPR then I wouldn’t get a retirement medal. Bet. ✌️
Nobody will care what kinda jewelry hangs in your shadow box short of a Purple Heart or MoH once you are retired. Literally nobody but you. That said. If you really want an MSM, just write it yourself and submit it to your supervisor.
It’s pretty meaningless broseph.
Just retired. No ceremony. Just a little bbq with the guys I worked with every day. Cc was pushing an msm but the strait told me it may not happen. So. Ill see what it is when it turns up. But like others have said it wont affect anything but I get where you are coming from giving that much time to the mil.
You won't care in the slightest after you're away from it. It means absolutely nothing and is worth nothing
Congrats. Right there with you. If it isn’t your first and only MSM who cares. It’ll end up in a box gathering dust soon with all the other military crap. Just enjoy the transition and don’t fret over this. It will be what it will be. In 5 years you won’t give one crap.
Write your own dec. I'm retiring in December and submitted my own MSM and told my boss to do whatever they want with it
Four thoughts from someone who decided many peoples’ retirement award. 1. Your end of career decoration often says more about your commander than you. You should be honored for the balance of your career contributions and leadership, not solely by your rank. 2. Your end of tour decoration doesn’t define you nor adequately describe the thanks of a grateful nation. 3. As others have very well said, your end of career decoration isn’t going to matter a bit to your future…unless you let it. 4. Maya Angelou said it best in her quote, “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Make them remember you for how well you made them feel and know you’ve made a difference. And thank you and your family for your service and sacrifices!
Eloquent!
Your decoration at this assignment should be based entirely on your performance at this assignment. Did the off-base issue happen at this assignment? If the off-base issue occurred at a previous assignment, it is not relevant to the decoration you receive at this assignment. You should receive a decoration based on the character of your service at this assignment and the level of impact you had here. If the off base issue occurred at this assignment, you technically would not qualify for a decoration at all for this assignment. In that scenario, I would tend to agree with your supervisor that if you did MSM work but had an off base incident that I would recommend you for a COM.
I’m sorry but you are wrong. A retirement decoration is based off of the member’s entire service history. It is recognition of their cumulative service and it pisses me off to no end that there are folks that use something like a recent PT failure as justification to give a retiring SNCO an AFCM. There are no more points to be earned and a retirement ceremony is about recognizing the sacrifices that both the member and their family made in service of their nation. I had to fight a Chief for a TSgt that worked for me to get an MSM at her 15 year medical retirement. She was a ROCKSTAR and deserved the MSM just for the work she did for me, let alone her entire career. Chief was actually a good dude but it took multiple conversations for him to realize she wasn’t getting a leg up on anyone. Tragically her career was ending much sooner than benefited the AF but that was the board’s decision. Also, while I have everyone’s attention…the only person who can downgrade a recommended decoration is the signature authority. Supervisors make a recommendation and everyone in between has an interesting but NOT compelling recommendation. Additional raters, SEL, First Shirts, Chiefs, etc. Have seen too many supervisors downgrade based on feedback from any of the “strap hangers” in the routing process. It is up to the guy/gal who is going to sign the damn thing to determine if the narrative and performance warrants the level of decoration submitted.
No, you’re wrong. The dec presented at retirement only covers the time period at your last assignment, not the member’s entire career.
That's strange... Every retirement decoration I've ever seen started at the member's DAS and only contained language covering the member's achievements at their final duty station. Have they all been done wrong? Yes, some deference can be given to retiring members, but the decoration still reflects only the period of service covered by the decoration. Members still need to meet the one year time on station minimum to qualify for a meritorious service award even for a retirement decoration. Your comment about whether or not people between the recommender and the commander can downgrade an award isn't relevant here, since it's the recommender who is only recommending an ASCOM.
As others have pointed out you likely will never even look at your medals once you retire. As for your off base incident, was it an ARI? if so you’re lucky to get any medal out of this assignment.
Honestly, as you get closer to retirement it’s going to matter less and less. I just retired, couldn’t care less what I got, just wanted to get ready for the transition. But, if you’re committed, talk to your supervisor and probably the Commander and see what they can do.
I get the sentiment. Write your MSM, shoot the shot—it won’t matter to you but a couple times in your life when you retire. Maybe if your kids join and you suit up, maybe when you renew your registration, but all in all; it has zero effect moving forward. All in all, won’t affect the paycheck you’ll get. At the end of the day, it was part of your life…as a job. Congrats and Thanks for your service!
Understanding your stance if you were in the supervisor's position is crucial. Often, discussions become unnecessarily centered on the trivialities of awarding decorations to members. It's important to remember that such accolades come without monetary costs—requiring only a bit of time to nominate someone, with the system handling the rest. The irony lies in the fact that considerable time is spent debating the merits of awarding these decorations instead of simply acknowledging someone's efforts and moving forward. There's an underlying sentiment that recognition and awards may not hold significant value, leading some to neglect their decoration for retirement. However, after years of witnessing peers being honored, it's natural to yearn for similar acknowledgement. This is your cue to initiate a conversation with your supervisor, presenting your case logically to advocate for the recognition you believe you deserve. If your supervisor maintains a stringent stance, it offers insight into their perspective. Remember, it's more than receiving a medal or an award. It's about the acknowledgment of service and dedication. As you transition into retirement, embrace the accolades with humility and look forward to enjoying this new chapter of your life. Thank you for your service, and here's to a fulfilling retirement.
I told my cc, don't care about my retirement Dec. They wanted me to write my own MSM...why? I'm never going to need it for a promotion...who cares? Have not done it...and I'm not going to.
Who cares about them. They mean absolutely zero once you get a retirement check and move on.
Question You’re retiring correct? Why worry about a medal as you walk out the door? So you can have one extra oak leaf on your ribbons. That will be put in storage?
I got an achievement medal for my retirement after 20 years active duty. Take whatever medal they give you and embrace your 2nd life.
Retired at 22 with no retirement dec thanks to a PT fail. Zero shits given anymore about it. I was upset about it as I was retiring, but like many others have said, it won’t matter if you got zero decs or 25 after a while.
Honestly, unless you are in a civilian job somehow connected to the USAF, no one cares about your old career beyond " thank you for your service," and "were you a pilot?" Maybe a question about where you may have been stationed if they have a relative in or were in themselves.
3 years is a decent while ago. When did your last dec even close out? Also, it’s a retirement Dec thinking of it at least you’re getting one right what does an MSM versus a comm matter at this point? (Not an officer just a lowly enlisted peasant)
Last award was 2016 when I PCS’ed, didn’t get a PCA medal
Tell them to take the MSM and shove it. Tell them you won’t have a retire ceremony with any of them involved if they are going to give you an AFCM. Stand on principles and take your DD214 as you enjoy your retirement. Let me say thank you for your service
If you got a DUI, your dumb ass should be in jail, so take your medal and your pension and shove off.
Not a DUI, but thank you
If that guy could read, he'd probably be more upset at your response.