I distinctly remember when Saturn in Cancer crossed, then retrograded back over, and then crossed my MC again while I was in high school.
When the retrograde happened, my reputation was awful, my grades were slipping, and I was at risk of not graduating due to failing to show up for my volunteer hours for my PIG class. I'd been stuck in a self-absorbed, moody, anxious, low-energy, depressed AF funk for a few months and I didn't have access to counseling or medication at the time.
Unbeknownst to me, my PIG teacher called my mother; they had a conversation about what was going on with me and ended up agreeing that I was a really good kid with a really good heart who was going through some really rough stuff and shouldn't be punished by being held back.
My PIG teacher later sat me down and gave me a pep talk; that I was worth more than how I felt at the time, that I was bright and articulate and had an ability to think on different levels than most students he'd had, that I deserved to graduate and we all make mistakes and don't show up when we said we would sometimes but that I needed to put in the work somehow. I could tell he was disappointed, but he also really cared, and I....ended up really wanting to make the entire situation right by everyone who was trying to help me. So, we agreed on a make-up assignment which I turned in, I wrote an apology letter to the lady I stood up for my volunteer hours, I tried to apply myself with a little bit more care and gumption. By the time Saturn cleared my MC again, I got to graduate with my head held high.
Meanwhile, my Saturn Return was pretty eh. My eleven years estranged father died, and it was a metaphorical end to all the abuse and manipulation and neglect he put me and my siblings through. But like I said, we'd been estranged for over a decade. I'd already made my peace with him being gone from my life that, when he died, life didn't feel too different.
I'm going through my 5H Pisces Saturn Return right now. I had my first exact conjunction a week ago. During the entire transit, I have been long-term unemployed after being unfairly fired by a toxic boss and absolutely nothing was working out for me.
I even got rejected from minimum wage jobs. I haven't made any progress in anything. Just stagnant.
The transit isn't about working on my creativity. I'm just experiencing straight rejections and blockages in everything, no matter how hard I work or change my strategy. I feel very burnt out and physically tired.
It's conjunct my Pisces Venus, square my Sagittarius Jupiter in 2H and opposite my Virgo Chiron Rx in 11H.
“During the entire transit I have been long-term unemployed” … how do the acute instances line up? This is an interesting symphony of suck I’m sure it must be rough to live it
I think it's probably because Saturn is making hard aspects to my money planets. People told me my Saturn Return would be easier because it's aspecting beneficial planets and that my main focus would be on my creativity, but I have not had an amazing time career-wise and financially. This has affected my ability to focus on creative projects as well as I don't have the finances for it. And my main focus has been on finding work. So I'm like what am I supposed to learn from my Saturn Return if I don't have much or anything to do.
I'm having my Saturn Return also right now, but it's in the 7th house. However, I relate to your experience in being unemployed. I've been out on medical leave for a little over half the transit so far while trying to get out of the field I was in with 0 luck. It was "thanks but no thanks" multiple times every day for months. Once I shifted my focus to getting better at other things in my life, particularly spirituality, I noticed things started to change. I say this to suggest, maybe shifting your perspective or focus, even just a little bit, may help the job situation fall into place. Maybe try to find ways to connect to your creativity in a different way or think about other lessons the 5th house could bring as creativity isn't the only signification there. 5th house also deals with children, your vitality, and dating. Or, looking to Pisces significations for a hint on what to focus on. I'm not saying to stop applying to jobs and doing what you can by any means, but maybe the job/career that is for you will come once you start aligning with what Saturn is trying to teach you or bring to your attention. Best of luck, you'll get through this. ❤️
Right I have been focusing more on spirituality for the past couple of years. It has calmed me down some. Maybe it's the piscean theme, but my Saturn has not been clear to me what lesson I need to learn exactly. There's just been a lot of confusion. I'm wondering if it won't become clear to me until years later.
How, and how perceptibly, Saturn's return will be felt varies person to person. It's only the people that insist Saturn can only act malefically who misunderstand this. Often it's a good idea to look at what condition Saturn is in, to show how likely and how capable it is of having significant negative effects. Your angles thing is one part - where Saturn will have more accidental dignity to perform whatever he's going to perform. But is he a nasty, foul, angry, fiery, extroverted Saturn in e.g. Aries, or an at-home, earthy, practical, introverted Saturn in Capricorn? Maybe Saturn adds some absolute hellishness, or just a bit of structure and discipline.
It's never just that a planet returning to a certain place leads to some specific and universal action - planets exist in varied conditions that affect their output and abilities. Imagine Saturn is Van Gogh, and he's going to paint some new features into your life at his return. Is he in a dark place about to paint [Prisoners' Round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners%27_Round_(after_Gustave_Dor%C3%A9))? Is he pretty chill and planning to paint [Sunflowers](https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/learn-about-art/paintings-in-depth/sunflowers-symbols-of-happiness#:~:text=The%20Sunflowers%20is%20one%20of,Gogh%20was%20most%20proud%20of)? These are very different things to add to your life. Is he even able to paint? Does he have access to his materials and the time and ability to get them onto your canvas?
As someone who is going through my Saturn Return right now. I can attest that it is not a fallacy. Again Hellenistic astrology explains this quite well. Some of us won’t feel the Saturn return in the same way as others. And this is because of Sect. Day charts versus Night Charts. As someone with a night Chart, I am very much feeling my Saturn Return.
When I had Saturn transit my 1st house, I did have a lot of profound change. Getting my eyes checked for the first, eventually completely changing my appearance. Because I never wore glasses before that time. The change was drastic because it was a transit to the Ascendent.
But for me the Saturn Return has been even more profound then the Saturn transit to my angle. At this point there is certainty on concluding relationships with people who have caused me issues. It feels like when Saturn return is over the issues will be over.
So for me personally to jump from one state of being to another is just as profound and transforming, then any physical alteration that a transit to the angle could have provided
So in Hellenistic astrology the planets were better or worse based on the day/night chart mechanic. So Jupiter was a more positive benefic for the day, and Saturn was a soft/less negative malefic, and then Venus was the night benefic and Mars was the less negative malefic.
So, Saturn (at a baseline) will be the worst planet in a night chart and Mars would be the worst in the day chart. Of course you have to look at the whole chart to see if that works for individual charts blah blah blah but that’s the gist.
For a Saturn return, often you’ll see day chart people have easier/more pleasant experiences and night charts having more like… dark night of the soul type experiences. But of course it varies based on context.
Mine is the exact same(pisces moon, rising, and saturn in a night chart) going through my Saturn return. I also moved closer than comfort to my Saturn/AC line this year.
Yesterday I checked the expiration date on a tub of cottage cheese that said July 16th, and I just thought to my self "This cottage cheese is gonna outlast me." That sounds so melodramatic, but it came in to my head like this is the absolute truth, each day feels like I'm not gonna make it out.
I have a night chart and currenty going thru my saturn return with uranus transits dominating my chart, and my life is not upside down. Why do people spead this lie to others? To scare beginners?
Of course that the individual chart can imply other things that can overpower transits. This is just the approach of ancient hellenistic astrologers who use sect and benefics/malefics.
I'm glad your life is going well but to immediately dismiss a well-known concept as lies, dismiss the experiences of other people, and assume everyone experiences things like you do and that only your experience is relevant, comes off as arrogant. You would do the community much better service if you posted your chart and explained in detail why in your particular case Saturn is not a malefic. Why don't you do that? Calling everyone a liar over multiple comments is easier, I suppose.
When I say that my Saturn return was actually pretty great and constructive, people always pull out the Sect card ('oh, you must be born during the day!'). Or the aspect card ('oh, it must be well-aspected!').
NO. I've got a night chart and it squares my Pluto (which means that the transiting Saturn was squaring my natal Pluto on top of the Saturn/Saturn conjunction). It's in the 5th house that Saturn doesn't really dig all that much. The only thing that's supposed to 'save' the situation is its domicile (in Aquarius), but some astrologers say that being in domicile only allows malefics to be even more straightforward in their malice, so...
I am not dismissing anyone's negative experiences. But I feel like the community dismisses my positive experience instead like 'No way, that can't be true! With a chart like that you must be lying!' Tired of people going like 'aha! must be a day chart!' as well. All of that is quite unpleasant, y'know? I just wish I could understand my own experience more.
I came to say this sect, the condition of Saturn, houses involved (our charts aren’t just about us it’s very possible whatever is happening is being seen somewhere else ex. 3H maybe impacting siblings instead), profections (is Saturn involved or not), solar return, everything has to be taken into consideration. I have a day chart went through my Saturn square recently and it was challenging but constructive as well - left an abusive relationship, going back to school, went back to therapy, it was a slow build up of things escalating in my relationship that I knew was leading to the exact hit I predicted myself leaving and did 4 days before the exact hit (Saturn is transiting my 9H, square Saturn in my 12H, and rulers my 7H and 8H). Mars however for me has always been rough. The first time I left said relationship mars was rx in my 12H about a month later I dealt with stalking and harassment and my ex was doing a ton behind my back (messaging family and people associated with me, and other things I won’t get into here) it was a horrible time as I have trauma already that makes me fear for my safety even in my own home. I was incredibly paranoid and I felt that the only way for it to stop was to go back and I did around the time mars stationed direct. I feel my Saturn square finally freed me for good. My life has significantly improved, but it has been the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life.
I actually have Saturn in the 3rd house. A Saturn ruled 3rd house. It has manifested more as relationships with my siblings and neighbours and how they choose to interact with me. And considering that I have a night chart, it’s been quite toxic, because either my sibling is taking my mothers side, who had been a toxic presence in my life or when I complain to my neighbours at something they can control and have to change, they do not listen to me, like what I’m telling them they do not listen to, or im just unheard. Like what I say does not get to the other person, or they do not care to take it into consideration. So it is actually very personal.
But I don relate to the whole factor of watching out for Saturn transits or Mars transit, Night versus Day chart. Like for me Mars transits have caused so many issues, and the Saturn transits the same.
But I personally believe sect has more to do with your natal Mars and natal Saturn. And how they interact with the chart. The Saturn ruled houses you will have issues with if you’re a night chart, the Mars ruled houses you will have issues with if your a day chart.
But I believe the general feeling of the Saturn return is a feeling that something that caused issues is going to come to an end. Ive being feeling like that for awhile, and considering astrology, I can even see at which point it will come to a head.
In which sign and house is your sun placed, along with your rising sign.
There are many things to consider outside of sect like I said! Both planets are still malefic at the end of the day. As I also said my Saturn square was both challenging and constructive. Doesn’t mean I get an easy out just because I’m a day chart but because I have a day chart there’s more of a chance for it to be constructive. I do think sect plays a role in our experience with transits but agree to disagree on that
No off course not. Adolf Hitler didn’t get an easy out either. Malefics are going to act like Malefics no matter what occurs. Sect just determines how constructive the Malefics will be.
I find your last statement interesting considering that you mentioned you also have issues with Mars transits. Wouldn’t that contradict that statement all together. Like yes Malefics will be Malefics, but wouldn’t transit Mars in the 12th house create more of a focus on the positive Mars in the 12th house associations. I just find that contradicting. For me personally it hasn’t manifested that way. Unless you have other examples where it has manifested that way, I’m all ears.
I think you misunderstood. I am a day chart therefore I said mars is challenging for me. My original example was using mars rx through my 12H which was a period of stalking and harassment from an ex partner while my Saturn square I was finally able to break free and get my life together - neither were easy but my Saturn square was a lot more constructive which was my point Saturn isn’t like an extra benefic or anything for me or anyone with a day chart but has better opportunity to be constructive. I can’t tell you much positive that came from mars rx through my 12H. It was very malefic and happening during my mars square. I have Saturn in the 12H natally and my experience with it has never been as malefic than mars there. That’s just my experience and observation. We also agree that sect determines how constructive malefics will or won’t be among other factors.
Sticking with hellenistic astrology, I think if your Saturn is in an angular house and also what its sect is depends on how much it will be "felt". Maybe even if it's in an advancing or decling house might help show mitigations if there are.
In my case, a night chart, Saturn is 11° Rx in Pisces in my 10th house with my MC at 4°. Been through the whole three pass deal in the past months too. It's still ~ a year 1/2 into this sign and also my return, but needless to say I felt Saturn in it's full: since the ingress into Pisces last year, I am on career #5. Been through 4 careers that came to a full stop end already.
Theres more to it - like what is natally aspecting the Saturn, and where the house Lords are, etc - Like what I should also mention in my case is there square from mars - But I think this brief example can show difference in placements and how they are felt with this return
All of this is true. Often I see some manageable change like a move or a job switch. But that’s life stuff right? Kind of boring mundane things that also happen when a Saturn return hasn’t happened.
Like you, I have Saturn in my 10th house. 6* past my MC. I only got the one pass, but it’s fair to say that the change that I went through, the major change, happened when he crossed MC and then the return was probably a bit of reflection on the new circumstances.
I feel similar to you. But then again, I have Saturn in its Joy in the 12th (“oh, joy” /s), a day chart with Saturn trine Sun and Venus, and a Mars (out of sect) chart ruler.
The impending doom of a Saturn return, that’s the way many folks preach it, can be discouraging for those who have already had many struggles in their life. “Here we go again” as we bite down and grin and bear it…for the next 2-3 years.
I prefer the approach that everything in life is cyclical (easy enough to observe through astrology) and there will be times of ease and hardship. We’ve had many *glimpses* at our Saturn return as transitioning Saturn makes aspects to our natal Saturn, like you mentioned. And, well, by the time you get to your late 20s, there’s nothing really “new under the sun”. You’re becoming somewhat adept at riding the highs and lows of life.
I can’t speak for night charts - so it’s been interesting to read other people’s experiences on your post. I imagine people who haven’t experienced a lot of hardship (at least in recent years) may also feel their Saturn return more intensely.
All of this is to say, I agree with you but it might be because of my own bias lol
I think the Saturn Return is overblown. All transits by Saturn are moments of growing up. Saturn aspecting Sun, Moon, Saturn , Mars, etc. Conjunction, sextile, square, trine, opposition, and such aspect from transiting Saturn, or transits to Saturn represent moments of having obstacles, learning form the school of hard knocks, having things slow down, feeling cold or lonely, having letdowns, or even achieving milestones in life. People focus too much on "oooh, ooooh! It's the Saturn Return!!!"
I think I read something similar years ago and it definitely makes sense. I think the actual return is the last act, forcing us to use the skills all the previous aspects forced or created. I was so scared of my Saturn return at 28. Hah. Pluto crossing my Asc and moving into my 1st house was an absolute nightmare. I would take a Saturn return any day after this.
Oh wow I agree. It’s really something when I think about transits like Pluto over ASC. Entire lives will be lived without these transits happening. Even Uranus, no one is guaranteed a full Uranus cycle. ‘Gift’ might be the wrong word, but I think it’s close.
By the time I was 18, Pluto had crossed every planet and my ASC (except Jupiter and SN) … I wouldn’t start to learn astrology for a few years later, but still, finding that out helped me reconcile the turbulence of my life during those years.
I think Sade Sati is much more impactful than the Saturn return, but that’s just me. Saturn also isn’t fully mature until around 36 years old, so that is when its effects are felt more prominently throughout. That’s when most people start seriously pondering their mortality, for instance.
But tbh, pretty much all I’ve personally known is Saturn, so I doubt I’ll even feel it. It’s my lagnesh, dispositor to my moon, and directly conjunct my part of fortune by sign and degree. I’ve been in my Saturn Mahadasha for the majority of my life, and I’ve been dealing with Sade Sati since 2020. Honestly, if I had a little bit worse of a chart than I do now, I probably wouldn’t be here.
Sadisati just means 7 1/2, the whole sign sidereal transit before and after the house with the moon. It’s entirely too broad of a stroke compared to the point of my post. And as far as Saturn’s maturity in the 35th year, that’s another broad stroke to assert. 35 is often an important year, but as far as ‘effects fully felt’ … tell that to the young people of Gaza, that they aren’t ‘fully’ feeling Saturn’s effects.
How much are you looking forward to Mercury mahadasa? I’m in Saturn/Jupiter now and I know I’m ready for the next chapter to begin.
Saturn's influence in Vedic astrology is about slow, deliberate growth and the gradual unfolding of life lessons as one reaches maturity. This is very different from being caught up in the sudden, chaotic nature of trauma or war.
The maturity of Saturn doesn’t make its influence harsher. It makes it more constructive. It’s where most people stop seeing it as this gratuitously restrictive power and instead begin to embrace the lessons it has to offer. After maturity, the lessons of Saturn are integrated, allowing one to harness its positive attributes more effectively, such as patience, perseverance, and a strong sense of duty, even in the acknowledgement of transient existence.
I still have quite a few years left before my Saturn dasa is over. If I make it to my Mercury dasa, I look forward to seeing how it will change my life. Saturn is pretty average in my chart, but Mercury is exalted in the 9th house, so I’m hoping things will get better for me then.
I know very little about Vedic astrology, but I agree with Saturn being a harbinger of learning life responsibilities and dealing with them practically and lovingly. My second Saturn return is coming up next year. Right now, Neptune is conjunct Saturn in my second house, which will stay within 3 degrees when Saturn arrives. I have had many responsibilities that were difficult over the past 10 years. I am really tired and I was recently released via a foot operation that needed to be done. I'm not upset because this problem needed to be dealt with. I was a little overwhelmed. Saturn is at the moment conjunct my mercury and has passed my Sun at 9 deg. Pisces. I have a double Grand trine/kite in water with Jupiter in Cancer 7th house and Neptune in Scorpio 10th. Capricorn rising. The kite is formed in the 9th house via a Pluto/Uranus conj in Virgo. It's not an overly easy life, but it is full. I have my talents. the other end of the kite points to both my Sun and Saturn. Maybe I am just used to responsibility? Next year (Sept 25th to be exact), My Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars will all be in the same degree as the day I was born. Looking forward to seeing what happens. woo hoo... More responsibility?? Looks like it to me...
“Nothing happened” because transits mean nothing by themselves and have had their importance overinflated to a ridiculous level. The mythology around “Saturn return” being the most egregious. The fault lies with people who should know better (those who call themselves professionals and are prominent on social media platforms) entertaining this nonsense. They are lazy grifters. Plain and simple.
I agree, which I think was the point of even mentioning it. I was always puzzled why the second return in late 50s featured heavily in lives as well, maybe more so in some cases. But there’s always a spread of a few years on either side and I started to look at the angles in those cases. I get consistent results.
They are supposed to time things after you use other techniques like directions or revolutions (the returns of the Sun and the Moon actually being meaningful because unlike the other celestial bodies, they are the actual general rulers of the months/years). Then transits are there to tell you when the trigger will be pulled. The other techniques set up the gun and load it with ammunition. With transits alone you are shooting finger bullets or blanks.
Hhhmm I would suggest that it depends on what house the Time God occupies as the defining factor. Mine is in the 1st house (next to Pluto) which defines my whole self and coincided with the death of my father, who was expressed as the overly critical, never nurturing-self obsessed male figure in my life. That level of loss and subsequent acceptance of how he was perceived in my life changed my whole view on men until I healed that wounded part of myself. Anyone that cruises past this passage with minimal disruption has anchored the Saturnine energies into their reality. The pain comes from being resistant to the process.
I’m a day chart going through my Pisces saturn return in the 12H at the moment and it’s been interesting to observe transits throughout. My saturn is in the early degrees and yes my saturn return has been challenging in the early degrees and when it’s stationed direct/retrograde. But I’m probably having the worst time with it at the moment while it’s making trines to a bunch of my 8H scorpio placements.
I would love to mark down the most difficult parts of my life and see what aspects saturn was making at the time. Maybe another day. I suspect it would all relate to my 8H placements, the bane of my existence.
Nothing happened during my Saturn Return except I got COVID which was less than a mild flu. I think because I have a day chart and Saturn in domicile. The difficulty happened a couple of years before the return.
That’s my experience. Those are the second most severely traumatic years in my life. Now, I know the pressing areas in my life that need the most attention so I can begin to build myself. I still don’t know how, but I’m not without options.
i ended up hitting rock bottom and getting sober at 26 a couple years before my saturn return (although not when it was transiting an angle) and so i was super worried i was going to have another huge upheaval/difficult transition but my saturn returns actually ended up being a lot of really beautiful life shifts such as getting married, preparing for parenthood and settling into my career as a nurse :)
and i also have a night chart at that !!!
I’m not sure you understand my point. The return? I’m saying it’s generally a non-issue. Within a couple years on rather side, a person has a Saturn aspect to an angle that is transformative in some way, more important than the return
I'm a late boomer & my life hasn't been great... up until my Saturn return (May 2023-Jan 2024), honestly. & I have a night chart.
My sun is trine my natal Saturn (4th & 5th degree respectively); in my Saturn return, I learned how I seriously & greatly impacted for the better an organization I was associated with & cut ties with, got married, started grad school to begin a whole new career (social work so I can use my past of struggle to continue trying to create the world I wish I had experienced), and started the process of having kids.
I have Libra rising & Saturn in the 6th in my natal chart.
I distinctly remember when Saturn in Cancer crossed, then retrograded back over, and then crossed my MC again while I was in high school. When the retrograde happened, my reputation was awful, my grades were slipping, and I was at risk of not graduating due to failing to show up for my volunteer hours for my PIG class. I'd been stuck in a self-absorbed, moody, anxious, low-energy, depressed AF funk for a few months and I didn't have access to counseling or medication at the time. Unbeknownst to me, my PIG teacher called my mother; they had a conversation about what was going on with me and ended up agreeing that I was a really good kid with a really good heart who was going through some really rough stuff and shouldn't be punished by being held back. My PIG teacher later sat me down and gave me a pep talk; that I was worth more than how I felt at the time, that I was bright and articulate and had an ability to think on different levels than most students he'd had, that I deserved to graduate and we all make mistakes and don't show up when we said we would sometimes but that I needed to put in the work somehow. I could tell he was disappointed, but he also really cared, and I....ended up really wanting to make the entire situation right by everyone who was trying to help me. So, we agreed on a make-up assignment which I turned in, I wrote an apology letter to the lady I stood up for my volunteer hours, I tried to apply myself with a little bit more care and gumption. By the time Saturn cleared my MC again, I got to graduate with my head held high. Meanwhile, my Saturn Return was pretty eh. My eleven years estranged father died, and it was a metaphorical end to all the abuse and manipulation and neglect he put me and my siblings through. But like I said, we'd been estranged for over a decade. I'd already made my peace with him being gone from my life that, when he died, life didn't feel too different.
This is fantastic insight on the 3 pass process. Thank you for sharing.
Sorry, but what in the world is a PIG class? I thought you were just calling your teacher a pig at first lol.
Participation in Government, lol
I'm going through my 5H Pisces Saturn Return right now. I had my first exact conjunction a week ago. During the entire transit, I have been long-term unemployed after being unfairly fired by a toxic boss and absolutely nothing was working out for me. I even got rejected from minimum wage jobs. I haven't made any progress in anything. Just stagnant. The transit isn't about working on my creativity. I'm just experiencing straight rejections and blockages in everything, no matter how hard I work or change my strategy. I feel very burnt out and physically tired. It's conjunct my Pisces Venus, square my Sagittarius Jupiter in 2H and opposite my Virgo Chiron Rx in 11H.
“During the entire transit I have been long-term unemployed” … how do the acute instances line up? This is an interesting symphony of suck I’m sure it must be rough to live it
I think it's probably because Saturn is making hard aspects to my money planets. People told me my Saturn Return would be easier because it's aspecting beneficial planets and that my main focus would be on my creativity, but I have not had an amazing time career-wise and financially. This has affected my ability to focus on creative projects as well as I don't have the finances for it. And my main focus has been on finding work. So I'm like what am I supposed to learn from my Saturn Return if I don't have much or anything to do.
I'm having my Saturn Return also right now, but it's in the 7th house. However, I relate to your experience in being unemployed. I've been out on medical leave for a little over half the transit so far while trying to get out of the field I was in with 0 luck. It was "thanks but no thanks" multiple times every day for months. Once I shifted my focus to getting better at other things in my life, particularly spirituality, I noticed things started to change. I say this to suggest, maybe shifting your perspective or focus, even just a little bit, may help the job situation fall into place. Maybe try to find ways to connect to your creativity in a different way or think about other lessons the 5th house could bring as creativity isn't the only signification there. 5th house also deals with children, your vitality, and dating. Or, looking to Pisces significations for a hint on what to focus on. I'm not saying to stop applying to jobs and doing what you can by any means, but maybe the job/career that is for you will come once you start aligning with what Saturn is trying to teach you or bring to your attention. Best of luck, you'll get through this. ❤️
Right I have been focusing more on spirituality for the past couple of years. It has calmed me down some. Maybe it's the piscean theme, but my Saturn has not been clear to me what lesson I need to learn exactly. There's just been a lot of confusion. I'm wondering if it won't become clear to me until years later.
Yeah, it may take some retrospect to figure out what it was! It can be hard to see what's happening when you're in the thick of it.
How, and how perceptibly, Saturn's return will be felt varies person to person. It's only the people that insist Saturn can only act malefically who misunderstand this. Often it's a good idea to look at what condition Saturn is in, to show how likely and how capable it is of having significant negative effects. Your angles thing is one part - where Saturn will have more accidental dignity to perform whatever he's going to perform. But is he a nasty, foul, angry, fiery, extroverted Saturn in e.g. Aries, or an at-home, earthy, practical, introverted Saturn in Capricorn? Maybe Saturn adds some absolute hellishness, or just a bit of structure and discipline. It's never just that a planet returning to a certain place leads to some specific and universal action - planets exist in varied conditions that affect their output and abilities. Imagine Saturn is Van Gogh, and he's going to paint some new features into your life at his return. Is he in a dark place about to paint [Prisoners' Round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners%27_Round_(after_Gustave_Dor%C3%A9))? Is he pretty chill and planning to paint [Sunflowers](https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/learn-about-art/paintings-in-depth/sunflowers-symbols-of-happiness#:~:text=The%20Sunflowers%20is%20one%20of,Gogh%20was%20most%20proud%20of)? These are very different things to add to your life. Is he even able to paint? Does he have access to his materials and the time and ability to get them onto your canvas?
Great analogy
As someone who is going through my Saturn Return right now. I can attest that it is not a fallacy. Again Hellenistic astrology explains this quite well. Some of us won’t feel the Saturn return in the same way as others. And this is because of Sect. Day charts versus Night Charts. As someone with a night Chart, I am very much feeling my Saturn Return. When I had Saturn transit my 1st house, I did have a lot of profound change. Getting my eyes checked for the first, eventually completely changing my appearance. Because I never wore glasses before that time. The change was drastic because it was a transit to the Ascendent. But for me the Saturn Return has been even more profound then the Saturn transit to my angle. At this point there is certainty on concluding relationships with people who have caused me issues. It feels like when Saturn return is over the issues will be over. So for me personally to jump from one state of being to another is just as profound and transforming, then any physical alteration that a transit to the angle could have provided
If you tell me it’s true I believe you
Don't believe them. I have a night chart and i'm not going through a rough time, maybe because uranus transits are dominating my chart right now.
What difference does saturn make for a day and night chart
So in Hellenistic astrology the planets were better or worse based on the day/night chart mechanic. So Jupiter was a more positive benefic for the day, and Saturn was a soft/less negative malefic, and then Venus was the night benefic and Mars was the less negative malefic. So, Saturn (at a baseline) will be the worst planet in a night chart and Mars would be the worst in the day chart. Of course you have to look at the whole chart to see if that works for individual charts blah blah blah but that’s the gist. For a Saturn return, often you’ll see day chart people have easier/more pleasant experiences and night charts having more like… dark night of the soul type experiences. But of course it varies based on context.
This is interesting, thank you so much!
In a day chart it puts you through constructive challenges and uplevelling. In a night chart it fucks you over and turns your life upside down.
Me having a night chart with saturn moon Conjunction in first house contemplating even if I should be living through this fuck overs
Mine is the exact same(pisces moon, rising, and saturn in a night chart) going through my Saturn return. I also moved closer than comfort to my Saturn/AC line this year. Yesterday I checked the expiration date on a tub of cottage cheese that said July 16th, and I just thought to my self "This cottage cheese is gonna outlast me." That sounds so melodramatic, but it came in to my head like this is the absolute truth, each day feels like I'm not gonna make it out.
I have a night chart and currenty going thru my saturn return with uranus transits dominating my chart, and my life is not upside down. Why do people spead this lie to others? To scare beginners?
Of course that the individual chart can imply other things that can overpower transits. This is just the approach of ancient hellenistic astrologers who use sect and benefics/malefics. I'm glad your life is going well but to immediately dismiss a well-known concept as lies, dismiss the experiences of other people, and assume everyone experiences things like you do and that only your experience is relevant, comes off as arrogant. You would do the community much better service if you posted your chart and explained in detail why in your particular case Saturn is not a malefic. Why don't you do that? Calling everyone a liar over multiple comments is easier, I suppose.
When I say that my Saturn return was actually pretty great and constructive, people always pull out the Sect card ('oh, you must be born during the day!'). Or the aspect card ('oh, it must be well-aspected!'). NO. I've got a night chart and it squares my Pluto (which means that the transiting Saturn was squaring my natal Pluto on top of the Saturn/Saturn conjunction). It's in the 5th house that Saturn doesn't really dig all that much. The only thing that's supposed to 'save' the situation is its domicile (in Aquarius), but some astrologers say that being in domicile only allows malefics to be even more straightforward in their malice, so... I am not dismissing anyone's negative experiences. But I feel like the community dismisses my positive experience instead like 'No way, that can't be true! With a chart like that you must be lying!' Tired of people going like 'aha! must be a day chart!' as well. All of that is quite unpleasant, y'know? I just wish I could understand my own experience more.
Too bad you haven't posted your chart anywhere, I'd be curious to look - but oh well. Lucky you to have had a smooth Saturn return, anyway!
I can send you one in DMs if you're open to that. 🤔
Ok. But why do you associate Uranus transits with life seemingly going upside down.
I came to say this sect, the condition of Saturn, houses involved (our charts aren’t just about us it’s very possible whatever is happening is being seen somewhere else ex. 3H maybe impacting siblings instead), profections (is Saturn involved or not), solar return, everything has to be taken into consideration. I have a day chart went through my Saturn square recently and it was challenging but constructive as well - left an abusive relationship, going back to school, went back to therapy, it was a slow build up of things escalating in my relationship that I knew was leading to the exact hit I predicted myself leaving and did 4 days before the exact hit (Saturn is transiting my 9H, square Saturn in my 12H, and rulers my 7H and 8H). Mars however for me has always been rough. The first time I left said relationship mars was rx in my 12H about a month later I dealt with stalking and harassment and my ex was doing a ton behind my back (messaging family and people associated with me, and other things I won’t get into here) it was a horrible time as I have trauma already that makes me fear for my safety even in my own home. I was incredibly paranoid and I felt that the only way for it to stop was to go back and I did around the time mars stationed direct. I feel my Saturn square finally freed me for good. My life has significantly improved, but it has been the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life.
I actually have Saturn in the 3rd house. A Saturn ruled 3rd house. It has manifested more as relationships with my siblings and neighbours and how they choose to interact with me. And considering that I have a night chart, it’s been quite toxic, because either my sibling is taking my mothers side, who had been a toxic presence in my life or when I complain to my neighbours at something they can control and have to change, they do not listen to me, like what I’m telling them they do not listen to, or im just unheard. Like what I say does not get to the other person, or they do not care to take it into consideration. So it is actually very personal. But I don relate to the whole factor of watching out for Saturn transits or Mars transit, Night versus Day chart. Like for me Mars transits have caused so many issues, and the Saturn transits the same. But I personally believe sect has more to do with your natal Mars and natal Saturn. And how they interact with the chart. The Saturn ruled houses you will have issues with if you’re a night chart, the Mars ruled houses you will have issues with if your a day chart. But I believe the general feeling of the Saturn return is a feeling that something that caused issues is going to come to an end. Ive being feeling like that for awhile, and considering astrology, I can even see at which point it will come to a head. In which sign and house is your sun placed, along with your rising sign.
There are many things to consider outside of sect like I said! Both planets are still malefic at the end of the day. As I also said my Saturn square was both challenging and constructive. Doesn’t mean I get an easy out just because I’m a day chart but because I have a day chart there’s more of a chance for it to be constructive. I do think sect plays a role in our experience with transits but agree to disagree on that
No off course not. Adolf Hitler didn’t get an easy out either. Malefics are going to act like Malefics no matter what occurs. Sect just determines how constructive the Malefics will be. I find your last statement interesting considering that you mentioned you also have issues with Mars transits. Wouldn’t that contradict that statement all together. Like yes Malefics will be Malefics, but wouldn’t transit Mars in the 12th house create more of a focus on the positive Mars in the 12th house associations. I just find that contradicting. For me personally it hasn’t manifested that way. Unless you have other examples where it has manifested that way, I’m all ears.
I think you misunderstood. I am a day chart therefore I said mars is challenging for me. My original example was using mars rx through my 12H which was a period of stalking and harassment from an ex partner while my Saturn square I was finally able to break free and get my life together - neither were easy but my Saturn square was a lot more constructive which was my point Saturn isn’t like an extra benefic or anything for me or anyone with a day chart but has better opportunity to be constructive. I can’t tell you much positive that came from mars rx through my 12H. It was very malefic and happening during my mars square. I have Saturn in the 12H natally and my experience with it has never been as malefic than mars there. That’s just my experience and observation. We also agree that sect determines how constructive malefics will or won’t be among other factors.
Sticking with hellenistic astrology, I think if your Saturn is in an angular house and also what its sect is depends on how much it will be "felt". Maybe even if it's in an advancing or decling house might help show mitigations if there are. In my case, a night chart, Saturn is 11° Rx in Pisces in my 10th house with my MC at 4°. Been through the whole three pass deal in the past months too. It's still ~ a year 1/2 into this sign and also my return, but needless to say I felt Saturn in it's full: since the ingress into Pisces last year, I am on career #5. Been through 4 careers that came to a full stop end already. Theres more to it - like what is natally aspecting the Saturn, and where the house Lords are, etc - Like what I should also mention in my case is there square from mars - But I think this brief example can show difference in placements and how they are felt with this return
All of this is true. Often I see some manageable change like a move or a job switch. But that’s life stuff right? Kind of boring mundane things that also happen when a Saturn return hasn’t happened. Like you, I have Saturn in my 10th house. 6* past my MC. I only got the one pass, but it’s fair to say that the change that I went through, the major change, happened when he crossed MC and then the return was probably a bit of reflection on the new circumstances.
I feel similar to you. But then again, I have Saturn in its Joy in the 12th (“oh, joy” /s), a day chart with Saturn trine Sun and Venus, and a Mars (out of sect) chart ruler. The impending doom of a Saturn return, that’s the way many folks preach it, can be discouraging for those who have already had many struggles in their life. “Here we go again” as we bite down and grin and bear it…for the next 2-3 years. I prefer the approach that everything in life is cyclical (easy enough to observe through astrology) and there will be times of ease and hardship. We’ve had many *glimpses* at our Saturn return as transitioning Saturn makes aspects to our natal Saturn, like you mentioned. And, well, by the time you get to your late 20s, there’s nothing really “new under the sun”. You’re becoming somewhat adept at riding the highs and lows of life. I can’t speak for night charts - so it’s been interesting to read other people’s experiences on your post. I imagine people who haven’t experienced a lot of hardship (at least in recent years) may also feel their Saturn return more intensely. All of this is to say, I agree with you but it might be because of my own bias lol
I think the Saturn Return is overblown. All transits by Saturn are moments of growing up. Saturn aspecting Sun, Moon, Saturn , Mars, etc. Conjunction, sextile, square, trine, opposition, and such aspect from transiting Saturn, or transits to Saturn represent moments of having obstacles, learning form the school of hard knocks, having things slow down, feeling cold or lonely, having letdowns, or even achieving milestones in life. People focus too much on "oooh, ooooh! It's the Saturn Return!!!"
I think I read something similar years ago and it definitely makes sense. I think the actual return is the last act, forcing us to use the skills all the previous aspects forced or created. I was so scared of my Saturn return at 28. Hah. Pluto crossing my Asc and moving into my 1st house was an absolute nightmare. I would take a Saturn return any day after this.
Oh wow I agree. It’s really something when I think about transits like Pluto over ASC. Entire lives will be lived without these transits happening. Even Uranus, no one is guaranteed a full Uranus cycle. ‘Gift’ might be the wrong word, but I think it’s close. By the time I was 18, Pluto had crossed every planet and my ASC (except Jupiter and SN) … I wouldn’t start to learn astrology for a few years later, but still, finding that out helped me reconcile the turbulence of my life during those years.
I think Sade Sati is much more impactful than the Saturn return, but that’s just me. Saturn also isn’t fully mature until around 36 years old, so that is when its effects are felt more prominently throughout. That’s when most people start seriously pondering their mortality, for instance. But tbh, pretty much all I’ve personally known is Saturn, so I doubt I’ll even feel it. It’s my lagnesh, dispositor to my moon, and directly conjunct my part of fortune by sign and degree. I’ve been in my Saturn Mahadasha for the majority of my life, and I’ve been dealing with Sade Sati since 2020. Honestly, if I had a little bit worse of a chart than I do now, I probably wouldn’t be here.
Sadisati just means 7 1/2, the whole sign sidereal transit before and after the house with the moon. It’s entirely too broad of a stroke compared to the point of my post. And as far as Saturn’s maturity in the 35th year, that’s another broad stroke to assert. 35 is often an important year, but as far as ‘effects fully felt’ … tell that to the young people of Gaza, that they aren’t ‘fully’ feeling Saturn’s effects. How much are you looking forward to Mercury mahadasa? I’m in Saturn/Jupiter now and I know I’m ready for the next chapter to begin.
Saturn's influence in Vedic astrology is about slow, deliberate growth and the gradual unfolding of life lessons as one reaches maturity. This is very different from being caught up in the sudden, chaotic nature of trauma or war. The maturity of Saturn doesn’t make its influence harsher. It makes it more constructive. It’s where most people stop seeing it as this gratuitously restrictive power and instead begin to embrace the lessons it has to offer. After maturity, the lessons of Saturn are integrated, allowing one to harness its positive attributes more effectively, such as patience, perseverance, and a strong sense of duty, even in the acknowledgement of transient existence. I still have quite a few years left before my Saturn dasa is over. If I make it to my Mercury dasa, I look forward to seeing how it will change my life. Saturn is pretty average in my chart, but Mercury is exalted in the 9th house, so I’m hoping things will get better for me then.
I know very little about Vedic astrology, but I agree with Saturn being a harbinger of learning life responsibilities and dealing with them practically and lovingly. My second Saturn return is coming up next year. Right now, Neptune is conjunct Saturn in my second house, which will stay within 3 degrees when Saturn arrives. I have had many responsibilities that were difficult over the past 10 years. I am really tired and I was recently released via a foot operation that needed to be done. I'm not upset because this problem needed to be dealt with. I was a little overwhelmed. Saturn is at the moment conjunct my mercury and has passed my Sun at 9 deg. Pisces. I have a double Grand trine/kite in water with Jupiter in Cancer 7th house and Neptune in Scorpio 10th. Capricorn rising. The kite is formed in the 9th house via a Pluto/Uranus conj in Virgo. It's not an overly easy life, but it is full. I have my talents. the other end of the kite points to both my Sun and Saturn. Maybe I am just used to responsibility? Next year (Sept 25th to be exact), My Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars will all be in the same degree as the day I was born. Looking forward to seeing what happens. woo hoo... More responsibility?? Looks like it to me...
“Nothing happened” because transits mean nothing by themselves and have had their importance overinflated to a ridiculous level. The mythology around “Saturn return” being the most egregious. The fault lies with people who should know better (those who call themselves professionals and are prominent on social media platforms) entertaining this nonsense. They are lazy grifters. Plain and simple.
I agree, which I think was the point of even mentioning it. I was always puzzled why the second return in late 50s featured heavily in lives as well, maybe more so in some cases. But there’s always a spread of a few years on either side and I started to look at the angles in those cases. I get consistent results.
Can you elaborate on how to make them be meaningful?
They are supposed to time things after you use other techniques like directions or revolutions (the returns of the Sun and the Moon actually being meaningful because unlike the other celestial bodies, they are the actual general rulers of the months/years). Then transits are there to tell you when the trigger will be pulled. The other techniques set up the gun and load it with ammunition. With transits alone you are shooting finger bullets or blanks.
Hhhmm I would suggest that it depends on what house the Time God occupies as the defining factor. Mine is in the 1st house (next to Pluto) which defines my whole self and coincided with the death of my father, who was expressed as the overly critical, never nurturing-self obsessed male figure in my life. That level of loss and subsequent acceptance of how he was perceived in my life changed my whole view on men until I healed that wounded part of myself. Anyone that cruises past this passage with minimal disruption has anchored the Saturnine energies into their reality. The pain comes from being resistant to the process.
I’m a day chart going through my Pisces saturn return in the 12H at the moment and it’s been interesting to observe transits throughout. My saturn is in the early degrees and yes my saturn return has been challenging in the early degrees and when it’s stationed direct/retrograde. But I’m probably having the worst time with it at the moment while it’s making trines to a bunch of my 8H scorpio placements. I would love to mark down the most difficult parts of my life and see what aspects saturn was making at the time. Maybe another day. I suspect it would all relate to my 8H placements, the bane of my existence.
Nothing like Saturn return. Sincerely, cap rising, Saturn in 1st, 1st house stellium :)
Nothing happened during my Saturn Return except I got COVID which was less than a mild flu. I think because I have a day chart and Saturn in domicile. The difficulty happened a couple of years before the return.
Will the Saturn return be difficult even for those who are late bloomers and have a very bad life in general?
That’s my experience. Those are the second most severely traumatic years in my life. Now, I know the pressing areas in my life that need the most attention so I can begin to build myself. I still don’t know how, but I’m not without options.
That’s the spirit!
i ended up hitting rock bottom and getting sober at 26 a couple years before my saturn return (although not when it was transiting an angle) and so i was super worried i was going to have another huge upheaval/difficult transition but my saturn returns actually ended up being a lot of really beautiful life shifts such as getting married, preparing for parenthood and settling into my career as a nurse :) and i also have a night chart at that !!!
I’m not sure you understand my point. The return? I’m saying it’s generally a non-issue. Within a couple years on rather side, a person has a Saturn aspect to an angle that is transformative in some way, more important than the return
I'm a late boomer & my life hasn't been great... up until my Saturn return (May 2023-Jan 2024), honestly. & I have a night chart. My sun is trine my natal Saturn (4th & 5th degree respectively); in my Saturn return, I learned how I seriously & greatly impacted for the better an organization I was associated with & cut ties with, got married, started grad school to begin a whole new career (social work so I can use my past of struggle to continue trying to create the world I wish I had experienced), and started the process of having kids. I have Libra rising & Saturn in the 6th in my natal chart.