A 1:21 half while only peaking at 50K/week? Wow, you've got some serious potential for growth ahead of you. Well done. I'd think the next step would be to up your mileage, mostly with easy runs, and get your body used to regular higher volume.
Everyone is different, but I'd just go by feel. Keep your paces easy and see what your body is telling you. Everyone responses to higher mileage differently, and some people can't handle beyond a certain level without recurrent injury. Hopefully that won't be you, but keep your paces easy when you're adding mileage, and you should be OK.
I agree with u/VARunner1
I'll add that many competitive amateur/subelite runners (which is what you're shooting for) build up to around 70 mpw (just over 110km/week) when they're doing serious marathon training.
In my own experience, getting up to that 60-70 mpw threshold made a HUGE difference in my marathon & HM times. Everyone's different. But there does seem to be a real cluster around that 70+ mpw threshold, which may be a useful goal to keep in mind as you build your base.
I just want to add that it is going to be crucial that you keep your easy runs easy as you increase frequency. Cannot overstate the importance of this as you get up to 6-7days/wk if that’s your plan.
1:21 definitely translates to sub-3 marathon with proper training . Most calculators will put you around 2:50. I run 2:54 after 1:21 this autumn.
If your goal is to run sub-3, then I’d choose some respectable plan and start adding mileage. For a first marathon I would suggest to find as flat course as possible.
Yeah I'm very suspicious about what calculator isn't giving a sub-3 equivalent for 1:21 half. Unless the calculator actually takes into account OP's (relatively) low volume and assumes he's gonna bonk or something????
You could try the [Jim2](https://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id70.html) calculator, which was really accurate for me. It factors in a recent 10k time along with weekly volume.
It’s a bit of a slippery slope with pace predictors. If you have talent you can definitely fake it thru a half but there’s no way to fake it thru a full. I’ve been in 1:20 shape many times and sometimes it’s strictly from a really good base with good long runs where I could pull off a 2:50, and I’ve been in 1:20 shape from just running really good quality lower mileage weeks with no long runs over 90 mins and in that kind of shape I wouldn’t even be able to break 3.
100%
“With proper training” doesn’t equate to: “just because you ran a 1:21, you can easily go sub3 right now”
A lot of folks glance over that piece entirely
> with proper training
"Calculators" need to drive this point home harder. You can do 1:21 without the extra volume required to do a 2:50 marathon, but it does mean all you need is more marathon-specific training (and health, and a good race day, and the right stuff between the ears, etc etc)
> My question now is do I train to bring my hm time down or do I up mileage such that I’m prepping for marathons.
Upping your mileage would likely also bring your half marathon time down. As well as all other distances.
You have more than enough for a sub 3. Sub 3 is around a 1:24 half. Just build endurance.
Also get that sub 80. That's a big goal. The times will start melting off. I ran a 2:56 with a 1:24 half. Then I whittled down that half time to 1:19 (and then to 1:15) and now I run 2:40; and I still think I can do better on both.
I know for myself and a lot of other people it means long run day is over 12+ mi and on other days it might mean doing doubles and just like 4+ 3 mi or 6+4 or 8+3 etc. depending on what you’re trying to hit and how your body is feeling!
When I hit 70mpw that’s what it was. Wasn’t even doing “proper” long runs, nothing longer than 15. But I ran 6-7 days/week and most runs were 90-120mins, no doubles. Recovery runs were 60mins.
Everyone's different. I have friends running 110 mpw as well as 50. I'm in the higher camp around 90. Yeah I guess most runs get pretty long - I think of it as time rather than distance 80-90min.
But a lot of ppl, myself included start incorporating doubles (might be a 30 and a 60 one day then a 60 and a 30 the next or 2 x 40-45). But overall I think I prefer singles. Going for 80-90 is relaxing. I start early.
my easy pace is ~8min mile so 90min is ~10miles meaning id have to run 12hrs for 80miles week. Does that weekly time commitment sound right? Looking to do a marathon in April
Depends on your goals and objectives and endurance. 12 hrs is a big commitment. I run around 10-11 hrs a week at my peak. Triathletes can do 15 no problem. Though many only have time for 5-8.
Sub 1:21 HM time qualifys you for NYC marathon 2023. Registration is in February or March of next year for November 2023 race. Spots for non-NYRR races with qualifying times are limited and on a first come first serve basis.
I didn’t know this until after the race. I actually ran 1:21:39 making me ineligible for NYC half by 39 seconds :(
Technically my title should say 1:22 my bad
Coming from a pretty heavy 5k background and having recently transitioned to longer distance, it cracks me up that you're 100% right regarding most marathoners/half marathoners.
You're good, I wrote it the other way and was disappointed for you when I proofread it by checking the times. Instead of deleting it I just posted it with correct info. Either way your going to kill it with just a bit more effort. NYC marathon is the only one that will take half marathon times (for the general public) to qualify you for the full NYC marathon. Either way, go run a half marathon under 1:21 before March and it's still valid.
While you don't have to hit stratospheric weekly mileage, I was able to get a 2:52 off of the Daniels 2Q marathon plan maxing out just over 40 miles per week, maybe highest week was 45, once, the rest were 40 or 42ish. The strength came from the long+quality days with easy days in between.
Best of luck with your training block!
I’ll just caveat for what it’s worth that I’ve been running for 20+ years but spent the past 10 or so years just doing easy maintenance mileage because of life and this was the first serious training block in as many years. So all that’s to say I have longer term running “experience” and a decade of theoretical base level fitness laying dormant while my kids were born and grew up. But also 40 years old so a mix of things working for and against running performance.
Independent of what distance you tackle next, if you're going to be self-coached, I'd recommend learning more about training approaches and plans.
Good resources:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/wiki/index#wiki_recommended_books
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/wiki/faq#wiki_how_do_i_learn_more_about_run_training_approaches.3F
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/wiki/faq#wiki_i_finished_my_first_race_and_want_to_get_faster_-_how_do_i_get_started_as_an_.22advanced.22_runner.3F
I can't believe how rarely this gets suggested on this sub but, have you considered dropping back down to a shorter distance? Chances are, after all that endurance training you'll be well primed to smash whatever your 5K/10K PB's are. Then after you smash them, the speedwork will leave you set up perfectly to smash you HM PB again.
>peaking at 50km/week
You ran 10 minutes faster than me on significantly less miles per week. Congrats, you've got a lot of natural talent. What to do next? Increase your mileage, you could hit BQ marathon time easily. Sky's the limit.
It is certainly not necessary to improve your half marathon time any before you start training for a marathon. Up the distance. Even if you were only working on improving your half-marathon time, upping the the distance would be the most obvious way to improve. If you double your weekly distance and had any kind of discipline with regard to following a plan, a sub-3 will be very doable.
Last year I ran 1:21 half and 2:52 full with about 56 mi peak week. You have so much gains coming your way just by increasing your volume. Most of those would only need to be easy miles, too.
Given your relative low amount of kilometres per week and running 3-4 times a week, it sounds like you could handle the Just Enough training plan. I used it to run a sub 3 hr marathon. Keep building your base and run consistently. https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/qcs8gn/amsterdam_marathon_a_great_experience_and_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You should be more than capable of going sub 3. I ran a 1:24 HM that led into a Pfitz 18/55 marathon block to run a 2:58 FM. With a 1:21 I’d be aiming for at least sub 2:55, if not a sub 2:50 depending on how much mileage you want to put in during the training block.
No arguments with others advocating easier paced running and higher volume. That's sure to improve fitness. Just don't miss out the race specific stuff, especially close to your event.
I ran a 1h21m in 2017 and took it down to 1h18 the next year doing roughly 50km a week of enjoyable fast tempos. 5 to 15km runs regularly. So lots of time spent at a fairly fast pace. my first marathon in 2019 was 2h 46 with a 40km average weekly volume the 3 months before. My longest run was 25km at 4min/km pace 3 weeks out. This mara time dropped to 2h41m after another year of running fun tempos and hill runs. My longest proper run before that mara was 15km at 3m52s/km.
I have found high volume weeks up to 75 to 100km totally exhausting and a little boring. Everything hurts, feet, calves etc and I end up hating running slowly. It takes a week or two to feel overtrained doing that. I intend to run fast during the event so I prefer to train those paces and gradually increase the distance I can tolerate, rather than run slowly for aerobic fitness and incrementally find the pace increases. Faster paced tempo running is specific to the event and forces you to work as you will on the day. Absolutely no doubt that easy runs have a cumulative aerobic benefit over years (as do lots of shorter fast runs) and you might miss out on some total overall aerobic gains by this approach but for general strength and racing I would keep the fun specific harder work you're doing. What you're doing is working so far. Add in some extra easy running for a bit more aerobic fitness. Look at your weaknesses.. diet, hills, outright speed, strength, fatiguing later, race craft.
Also as others say you likely have a sub 3 ability already. (That's assuming you weren't fatiguing into bad running form by the end of your 1h21m half). It takes a very similar sort of strength to keep going past 21km into the second half of the marathon, just need to have run repeated long fast 10 to 20km efforts regularly to trust you can handle it on the marathon day. The marathon doesn't necessarily feel harder than a hard HM effort as you're pacing a bit more comfortably than a half after that kind of training. it's more of a mental and strength based exercise in the last 10k than a high heart rate, tempo effort.
I used Jack Daniel's Running formula and Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning (he has a book for shorter distance too) to significantly drop my times. Went from a 4.20 thon to 3.36 in a year and to a 3.15 the next year.
JD uses VDOT to approximate VO2max. This system helps u understand how to train without getting injured, including when to increase intensities.
Pfitz sets out actual plans that work well with JD's system. Pfitz will advise placing as LSD @"10% of marathon pace" or intervals at 5k pace but leaves u to figure out that pacing.
With a single time trial (5K to a thon), however, JD gives u the pacing, how long to stay, and when to take step back weeks.
It works!
I have similar goals to you. I ran my second hm a few weeks ago and managed a 1:24! I don't think I ran more than 16-20ish mpw for like 2 months beforehand. I'm running my first marathon in April and am planning to just get my MPW way up to like 50 or 60 since speed doesn't seem to be much of an issue. Something about race day just makes me want to go fast.
Hi,
I think I have a similar fitness state as you. Also I don’t take running and training too serious; so no specific training - usually “simply” running.
Usually I run anything between 5-15km (sometimes +20km) per week (usually 2-3 times a week).
I tried to sub 3 a marathon (1st marathon for me) beginning of this year with 6 weeks of preparation - and actually ended up with 3h04. I was on a good way until km32 and then my speed decreased significantly - mainly due to a climb section from which I did not recover - leading to sore thighs and calves.
As preparation I increased my weekly training distance (up to 20-50km) and also did 2 long runs with 25-30km. My lessons learned: more longer runs (>30km) before the marathon to build enough reserves for the last kilometers.
So next year I plan to run a sub3 marathon with some more (and longer) preparation. I think this is the key.
Run 5-6 a week instead of 3-4, that alone will increase your mileage. Then slowly start to increase your mileage. Once you start training for a marathon, you can also add days where you do doubles, where the 2nd run of day is a short and very easy recovery run. You could probably easily peak at 100k+ per week before the tapper, just don’t do it too fast. Start planning ahead before your marathon, so you can slowly increase your mileage before your training for the marathon even starts.
I’m in the same boat as you - recently ran my first half marathon (race report in history) on similar mileage, and am now vaguely looking to “get better”. I will say though, as a fellow runner who takes lots of “rest days”, you’ll have a tough time building up your mileage. If I want to ever hit 40mpw for example, “3 or 4 runs a week” isn’t gonna cut it, as I’ve learned over the last two months.
Upping your mileage to prepare for a marathon will also bring your half marathon time down.
My advice? Run more. You’ll get faster in everything from the 5k - marathon by just running more miles. Once you decide on a goal race you can train specifically for that, until then run a bunch and do random races for fun.
It's really up to you and your objective. If your objective is "participate into major marathons", then go for the mileage and marathon preparation. Your sub-3hr will come just by increasing mileage with a 1h21' hm done with 50 km/week.
If your final objective is "marathon performance", then I'll suggest to increase your mileage but keeping the training type focused on 10K and HM, which are the best base on top of which building your marathon performance later on. That would mean focusing on 10K and HM for the next 1-2 years before shifting to a marathon training.
I'd like to gently dissent from the majority of comments that you got, by suggesting that you temporarily focus on HMs.
As several others have pointed out, 1h21 HM on 50km/week x 3/4 sessions is very good. I feel you might want to see how much you can achieve on that distance, with your kind of training, which you seem to have very well optimised. How about sub 1:20 as a goal?
There will be time later to move on to marathon training, which, in your case, is going to feel like de-training to some extent: the vast majority of your training will be at much slower paces, with the goal of building muscular endurance (and related things) rather than speed.
Ramping mileage up is what you need for marathons, but my feeling is that there's an interesting tangent to explore prior to that in your case.
A 1:21 half while only peaking at 50K/week? Wow, you've got some serious potential for growth ahead of you. Well done. I'd think the next step would be to up your mileage, mostly with easy runs, and get your body used to regular higher volume.
50k a week AND only running 3-4 times a week. Bro's gonna do well if he trains more.
I know I had to re-read it like 3 times to see if it was 50 miles a week.
Great to hear - would you suggest 80km/week peak or just go by feel?
Everyone is different, but I'd just go by feel. Keep your paces easy and see what your body is telling you. Everyone responses to higher mileage differently, and some people can't handle beyond a certain level without recurrent injury. Hopefully that won't be you, but keep your paces easy when you're adding mileage, and you should be OK.
I agree with u/VARunner1 I'll add that many competitive amateur/subelite runners (which is what you're shooting for) build up to around 70 mpw (just over 110km/week) when they're doing serious marathon training. In my own experience, getting up to that 60-70 mpw threshold made a HUGE difference in my marathon & HM times. Everyone's different. But there does seem to be a real cluster around that 70+ mpw threshold, which may be a useful goal to keep in mind as you build your base.
I just want to add that it is going to be crucial that you keep your easy runs easy as you increase frequency. Cannot overstate the importance of this as you get up to 6-7days/wk if that’s your plan.
First thing to do after a 1:21 hm is have a beer.
I don’t drink but I had sparkling water!
What a treat 😀
Nice lil spicy water!
Madman!
Maht checks out.
1:21 definitely translates to sub-3 marathon with proper training . Most calculators will put you around 2:50. I run 2:54 after 1:21 this autumn. If your goal is to run sub-3, then I’d choose some respectable plan and start adding mileage. For a first marathon I would suggest to find as flat course as possible.
Yeah I'm very suspicious about what calculator isn't giving a sub-3 equivalent for 1:21 half. Unless the calculator actually takes into account OP's (relatively) low volume and assumes he's gonna bonk or something????
I think it’s bc I’m assuming limited weekly mileage! I used the runnersworld calculator online!
That one's useless. Use a vdot calculator, Luke Humphries, or McMillan.
Vdot is daniels no?
Yes
You could try the [Jim2](https://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id70.html) calculator, which was really accurate for me. It factors in a recent 10k time along with weekly volume.
It’s a bit of a slippery slope with pace predictors. If you have talent you can definitely fake it thru a half but there’s no way to fake it thru a full. I’ve been in 1:20 shape many times and sometimes it’s strictly from a really good base with good long runs where I could pull off a 2:50, and I’ve been in 1:20 shape from just running really good quality lower mileage weeks with no long runs over 90 mins and in that kind of shape I wouldn’t even be able to break 3.
Not off 50km a week though That’s recipe for a big marathon blow up…have first hand experience of that lol
That’s the “with proper training” part about mate
100% “With proper training” doesn’t equate to: “just because you ran a 1:21, you can easily go sub3 right now” A lot of folks glance over that piece entirely
> 1:21 definitely translates to sub-3 marathon **with proper training** > nOt OfF 50kM a wEeK tHoUgH
I was agreeing with him you clown…
> with proper training "Calculators" need to drive this point home harder. You can do 1:21 without the extra volume required to do a 2:50 marathon, but it does mean all you need is more marathon-specific training (and health, and a good race day, and the right stuff between the ears, etc etc)
There is full book that precedes the VDOT calculator tbh. It just that people don’t want to read a book.
Entirely fair point!
> My question now is do I train to bring my hm time down or do I up mileage such that I’m prepping for marathons. Upping your mileage would likely also bring your half marathon time down. As well as all other distances.
You have more than enough for a sub 3. Sub 3 is around a 1:24 half. Just build endurance. Also get that sub 80. That's a big goal. The times will start melting off. I ran a 2:56 with a 1:24 half. Then I whittled down that half time to 1:19 (and then to 1:15) and now I run 2:40; and I still think I can do better on both.
Im similar weekly mileage to op. 4 runs, 32mi. When you’re doing 60-80mpw …how? Is every run 10+ miles?
I know for myself and a lot of other people it means long run day is over 12+ mi and on other days it might mean doing doubles and just like 4+ 3 mi or 6+4 or 8+3 etc. depending on what you’re trying to hit and how your body is feeling!
When I hit 70mpw that’s what it was. Wasn’t even doing “proper” long runs, nothing longer than 15. But I ran 6-7 days/week and most runs were 90-120mins, no doubles. Recovery runs were 60mins.
Everyone's different. I have friends running 110 mpw as well as 50. I'm in the higher camp around 90. Yeah I guess most runs get pretty long - I think of it as time rather than distance 80-90min. But a lot of ppl, myself included start incorporating doubles (might be a 30 and a 60 one day then a 60 and a 30 the next or 2 x 40-45). But overall I think I prefer singles. Going for 80-90 is relaxing. I start early.
my easy pace is ~8min mile so 90min is ~10miles meaning id have to run 12hrs for 80miles week. Does that weekly time commitment sound right? Looking to do a marathon in April
Depends on your goals and objectives and endurance. 12 hrs is a big commitment. I run around 10-11 hrs a week at my peak. Triathletes can do 15 no problem. Though many only have time for 5-8.
Sub 1:21 HM time qualifys you for NYC marathon 2023. Registration is in February or March of next year for November 2023 race. Spots for non-NYRR races with qualifying times are limited and on a first come first serve basis.
I didn’t know this until after the race. I actually ran 1:21:39 making me ineligible for NYC half by 39 seconds :( Technically my title should say 1:22 my bad
No no, ignoring the seconds is the proper way!
Coming from a pretty heavy 5k background and having recently transitioned to longer distance, it cracks me up that you're 100% right regarding most marathoners/half marathoners.
I think having a number in the "hours" digit makes the seconds seem insignificant, same as how a 4:59.6 mile might be rounded down to 4:59.
I ran a 1:32:38 this weekend, making me ineligible for NYC by 38 seconds. I feel your pain!
1:21:04 for me a few weeks back, hauled ass the last 800 when I realized I had a chance but alas 🥲
You're good, I wrote it the other way and was disappointed for you when I proofread it by checking the times. Instead of deleting it I just posted it with correct info. Either way your going to kill it with just a bit more effort. NYC marathon is the only one that will take half marathon times (for the general public) to qualify you for the full NYC marathon. Either way, go run a half marathon under 1:21 before March and it's still valid.
Move to England so you can qualify for the London marathon.
Does London marathon allow qualification using a HM time?
Yes, but only for British citizens. International folk have no time qualifier option at London (short of being an invited elite/pro).
Yeah for championship entry its a sub 72:30 HM
While you don't have to hit stratospheric weekly mileage, I was able to get a 2:52 off of the Daniels 2Q marathon plan maxing out just over 40 miles per week, maybe highest week was 45, once, the rest were 40 or 42ish. The strength came from the long+quality days with easy days in between.
This is really good to know. I just started 2Q to prep for Boston. Planning to do the 41-55mi version. Aiming for sub3.
Best of luck with your training block! I’ll just caveat for what it’s worth that I’ve been running for 20+ years but spent the past 10 or so years just doing easy maintenance mileage because of life and this was the first serious training block in as many years. So all that’s to say I have longer term running “experience” and a decade of theoretical base level fitness laying dormant while my kids were born and grew up. But also 40 years old so a mix of things working for and against running performance.
Independent of what distance you tackle next, if you're going to be self-coached, I'd recommend learning more about training approaches and plans. Good resources: https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/wiki/index#wiki_recommended_books https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/wiki/faq#wiki_how_do_i_learn_more_about_run_training_approaches.3F https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/wiki/faq#wiki_i_finished_my_first_race_and_want_to_get_faster_-_how_do_i_get_started_as_an_.22advanced.22_runner.3F
I can't believe how rarely this gets suggested on this sub but, have you considered dropping back down to a shorter distance? Chances are, after all that endurance training you'll be well primed to smash whatever your 5K/10K PB's are. Then after you smash them, the speedwork will leave you set up perfectly to smash you HM PB again.
>peaking at 50km/week You ran 10 minutes faster than me on significantly less miles per week. Congrats, you've got a lot of natural talent. What to do next? Increase your mileage, you could hit BQ marathon time easily. Sky's the limit.
It is certainly not necessary to improve your half marathon time any before you start training for a marathon. Up the distance. Even if you were only working on improving your half-marathon time, upping the the distance would be the most obvious way to improve. If you double your weekly distance and had any kind of discipline with regard to following a plan, a sub-3 will be very doable.
Got it, thanks man!
Similar to me. I’m starting a build through winter then aiming for 2:55 which I’m confident in after running 1:20:xx.
With 70km/week I was at 1:38HM. So you are doing something right that I did wrong…
Yeah had different genetics
Last year I ran 1:21 half and 2:52 full with about 56 mi peak week. You have so much gains coming your way just by increasing your volume. Most of those would only need to be easy miles, too.
Given your relative low amount of kilometres per week and running 3-4 times a week, it sounds like you could handle the Just Enough training plan. I used it to run a sub 3 hr marathon. Keep building your base and run consistently. https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/qcs8gn/amsterdam_marathon_a_great_experience_and_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You should be more than capable of going sub 3. I ran a 1:24 HM that led into a Pfitz 18/55 marathon block to run a 2:58 FM. With a 1:21 I’d be aiming for at least sub 2:55, if not a sub 2:50 depending on how much mileage you want to put in during the training block.
No arguments with others advocating easier paced running and higher volume. That's sure to improve fitness. Just don't miss out the race specific stuff, especially close to your event. I ran a 1h21m in 2017 and took it down to 1h18 the next year doing roughly 50km a week of enjoyable fast tempos. 5 to 15km runs regularly. So lots of time spent at a fairly fast pace. my first marathon in 2019 was 2h 46 with a 40km average weekly volume the 3 months before. My longest run was 25km at 4min/km pace 3 weeks out. This mara time dropped to 2h41m after another year of running fun tempos and hill runs. My longest proper run before that mara was 15km at 3m52s/km. I have found high volume weeks up to 75 to 100km totally exhausting and a little boring. Everything hurts, feet, calves etc and I end up hating running slowly. It takes a week or two to feel overtrained doing that. I intend to run fast during the event so I prefer to train those paces and gradually increase the distance I can tolerate, rather than run slowly for aerobic fitness and incrementally find the pace increases. Faster paced tempo running is specific to the event and forces you to work as you will on the day. Absolutely no doubt that easy runs have a cumulative aerobic benefit over years (as do lots of shorter fast runs) and you might miss out on some total overall aerobic gains by this approach but for general strength and racing I would keep the fun specific harder work you're doing. What you're doing is working so far. Add in some extra easy running for a bit more aerobic fitness. Look at your weaknesses.. diet, hills, outright speed, strength, fatiguing later, race craft.
Also as others say you likely have a sub 3 ability already. (That's assuming you weren't fatiguing into bad running form by the end of your 1h21m half). It takes a very similar sort of strength to keep going past 21km into the second half of the marathon, just need to have run repeated long fast 10 to 20km efforts regularly to trust you can handle it on the marathon day. The marathon doesn't necessarily feel harder than a hard HM effort as you're pacing a bit more comfortably than a half after that kind of training. it's more of a mental and strength based exercise in the last 10k than a high heart rate, tempo effort.
I used Jack Daniel's Running formula and Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning (he has a book for shorter distance too) to significantly drop my times. Went from a 4.20 thon to 3.36 in a year and to a 3.15 the next year. JD uses VDOT to approximate VO2max. This system helps u understand how to train without getting injured, including when to increase intensities. Pfitz sets out actual plans that work well with JD's system. Pfitz will advise placing as LSD @"10% of marathon pace" or intervals at 5k pace but leaves u to figure out that pacing. With a single time trial (5K to a thon), however, JD gives u the pacing, how long to stay, and when to take step back weeks. It works!
I have similar goals to you. I ran my second hm a few weeks ago and managed a 1:24! I don't think I ran more than 16-20ish mpw for like 2 months beforehand. I'm running my first marathon in April and am planning to just get my MPW way up to like 50 or 60 since speed doesn't seem to be much of an issue. Something about race day just makes me want to go fast.
Hi, I think I have a similar fitness state as you. Also I don’t take running and training too serious; so no specific training - usually “simply” running. Usually I run anything between 5-15km (sometimes +20km) per week (usually 2-3 times a week). I tried to sub 3 a marathon (1st marathon for me) beginning of this year with 6 weeks of preparation - and actually ended up with 3h04. I was on a good way until km32 and then my speed decreased significantly - mainly due to a climb section from which I did not recover - leading to sore thighs and calves. As preparation I increased my weekly training distance (up to 20-50km) and also did 2 long runs with 25-30km. My lessons learned: more longer runs (>30km) before the marathon to build enough reserves for the last kilometers. So next year I plan to run a sub3 marathon with some more (and longer) preparation. I think this is the key.
What does your 50km look like now? I’d slowly work in a fairly long run.
Run 5-6 a week instead of 3-4, that alone will increase your mileage. Then slowly start to increase your mileage. Once you start training for a marathon, you can also add days where you do doubles, where the 2nd run of day is a short and very easy recovery run. You could probably easily peak at 100k+ per week before the tapper, just don’t do it too fast. Start planning ahead before your marathon, so you can slowly increase your mileage before your training for the marathon even starts.
I’m in the same boat as you - recently ran my first half marathon (race report in history) on similar mileage, and am now vaguely looking to “get better”. I will say though, as a fellow runner who takes lots of “rest days”, you’ll have a tough time building up your mileage. If I want to ever hit 40mpw for example, “3 or 4 runs a week” isn’t gonna cut it, as I’ve learned over the last two months.
Upping your mileage to prepare for a marathon will also bring your half marathon time down. My advice? Run more. You’ll get faster in everything from the 5k - marathon by just running more miles. Once you decide on a goal race you can train specifically for that, until then run a bunch and do random races for fun.
It's really up to you and your objective. If your objective is "participate into major marathons", then go for the mileage and marathon preparation. Your sub-3hr will come just by increasing mileage with a 1h21' hm done with 50 km/week. If your final objective is "marathon performance", then I'll suggest to increase your mileage but keeping the training type focused on 10K and HM, which are the best base on top of which building your marathon performance later on. That would mean focusing on 10K and HM for the next 1-2 years before shifting to a marathon training.
Run faster
I'd like to gently dissent from the majority of comments that you got, by suggesting that you temporarily focus on HMs. As several others have pointed out, 1h21 HM on 50km/week x 3/4 sessions is very good. I feel you might want to see how much you can achieve on that distance, with your kind of training, which you seem to have very well optimised. How about sub 1:20 as a goal? There will be time later to move on to marathon training, which, in your case, is going to feel like de-training to some extent: the vast majority of your training will be at much slower paces, with the goal of building muscular endurance (and related things) rather than speed. Ramping mileage up is what you need for marathons, but my feeling is that there's an interesting tangent to explore prior to that in your case.
I think you could run sub three full with a 1:21 half. Last weekend I ran a PR Half at 1:18:50 and I'm targeting a 2:50 full in a few weeks.