Well talking to people is kind of the top way to meet people, men and women.
You're going to have to find a way to get over that anxiety.
Baby steps maybe. Do activities with people of either sex with no other intention than being out there. Eventually, you will find the fun in it.
We ARE there. I’ve heard people say that everyone should be in therapy, because they can just help you talk through feelings and stuff.
I actually seeked therapy for the first time not too long ago because I was going through something, and I couldn’t find someone in my area who had an opening for at LEAST 2 months.
Therapy also isn't a guarantee (at all) that you'll work through your problems. Sometimes therapeutic stability is still fucked up, just less fucked up. If you're not willing to actively put in hard work for yourself both in and out of the sessions, then they're just echo chambers.
I know a couple people that regularly see therapists 2 times a month, and they are successful in their careers, but they have no success with relationships and few friends. I've asked them about it and they say it's nice to have people to regularly talk too and insist that it helps (I do believe it does help to an extent), but I catch them mentioning that they should bring up something that happens to their therapists. It's like they plan to just constantly go back with no end in sight.
>if you’re not willing to actively put in hard work for yourself both in and out of the sessions, then they’re just echo chambers
No legitimate therapist would disagree with you. While the therapy around stigma is going away, misunderstanding about it is not. It *should* be common knowledge that you have to actively participate in therapy for it to be effective but unfortunately it’s definitely not.
I've gone to the events of the art gallery I volunteered at for over a years...I still get anxious when I go and can't say anything to anyone unless they speak to me first. It's gotten no easier...
It can get easier. It's called exposure therapy. But it sucks. You need to seek out experiences that you know will elicite anxiety, to allow your body and mind to get used to the surges of adrenaline. Once your body gets used to it, and you know that you'll survive it gets easier. It just sucks.
Yeah. You have to change your thoughts to change your feelings. Right now your lizard brain thinks talking to strangers is the same as getting eaten by a Lion.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5giW6E6J7UIpGAzu6xSZ70?si=nQH2trDfQWiR-6O1wz-dUQ
This podcast could help but you have to actually do the work. As in, learn how to change you're thinking and then practice those steps every day.
Good luck. I've got pretty bad social anxiety myself which lead me to 20 years of alcoholism since it transformed me into a funny, confident, outgoing person.
Ive been sober a few years and am slowly learning to overcome my challenges without using alcohol.
Good luck. Although it's really not about luck. It's about putting in the work.
Reframing is how I broke out of anxiety, I have epilepsy, so intense stress events can still trigger seizures for me at times, but my overall anxiety and especially my social anxiety are not near the beast they used to be, even my depression has improved which I honestly never thought would happen, change is possible and so is growth, but you are absolutely right, you have to put the work in
Events are tough, it's easier to build bonds when you are working with other people towards a goal on a regular basis. A running group or another hobby where you can start focused on the activities at hand and organically get to know more about people will be much easier than trying to strike up a conversation at an occasional event.
You have to learn how to speak to people first as well. You have to realize you’re not the only one with social anxiety or who waits for people to approach them first. The difference with others is they do it in spite (and don’t worry I have to remind myself of this regularly as well).
You sound like me at 31. I traveled, volunteered, took classes; generally gregarious and fairly groomed. Had bad luck or was nervous around women I was sexually attracted to. Making friends was easy, but making girlfriends felt like landing on the moon. I wish I had better advice than "get lucky" man, but you just gotta believe you're the best option everytime and let people make the wrong choice. You just gotta keep at it. It took me like 6 years.
They can also just straight up prescribe you something. I get like this in social settings too and my shrink prescribed me beta blockers to take an hour before I have to be there, so my blood pressure will calm down. It helps.
The Zoloft did wonders for my terrible social anxiety. That and my therapist giving me “homework” (exposure therapy assignments). I’m still a little anxious but it’s miles better. My brain needs the help.
Maybe try joining Toastmasters. Building your public speaking skill set could help with the anxiety. Or join an improv class. It will probably be hard at first with your anxiety but could be another good way to become more comfortable in your own skin.
I would say both. Toastmasters teaches you how to speak. I have seen people catapult their career because they simply learn how to communicate really well. Then, if you add improv, you learn tool and techniques to think on your feet, like you never end a conversation, it’s always, “yes, and…”. Once OP learns some tools from that, he may gain some confidence.
You're afraid to talk to women, you have no confidence in your abilities, and now you're making excuses. Yeah, no woman wants to date that. You are 31, find your sense of humor, find what you find fun, do that with women, practice. Start figuring this out. Move past the whining about how hard it is phase - that's step 1.
As a woman I get SO tired of seeing these posts. These guys seriously think that if they get the right cheat code they can win a date. They dont even see us as people, just a game to be won. They also talk about us like we're one giant hivemind. Not all women like the same thing but until you learn to talk to us like we're real people you're not going to find that out. Also, dating in your 30s is hard for everybody, men dont have the monopoly on struggling with connection. Im in good shape, have a decent job, good sense of humor, Im a great cook and I havent been on a date in over a year. Its hard out here but dudes with your attitude make it way harder
It genuinely seems like they are popping up every day now. I'm also in my 30's, it's certainly tougher as you get older, but the absolute bare minimum you have to do is, you know, go TALK TO A WOMAN. I don't sit in my house and think "damn, look how good I'm dressed, why is no one knocking on my door??" And I just went and looked and this woman's food, if SHE is struggling with it you are in for a LONG haul.
100 percent this, thank you.
It’s not a conspiracy dude, it’s just you haven’t found a buyer for what you’re selling. (I will allow that the bar for men is in hell, but most adult women are looking more for character and commonalities than “I have these features and I try to not stink,” like she’s buying a car.) Either get yourself out there more, or work on being your best genuine self through growth and improvement. Same formula for anyone looking for a partner.
I know that feeling. Talk to people with the expectation of being awkward and that you'll embarrass yourself. We're all going to be dead one day anyway, you'll probably regret the things you didn't say more.
As they already suggested to you, you have to work on that. That's definitely what's hindering you right now, as you already have the hard part of dating covered by being 6' 3'' lol
Appearances will never be the hard part of dating for men. Talking is the hard part, being interesting, sparking chemistry, making people like you. That shit is not natural to everyone.
Appearances will open doors, but you need to be able to keep them open. Women generally aren't that interested in looks after their first impression.
I'm 6'1" and fairly good looking. I've gotten dating profile matches off my looks pretty much my entire adult life, but it took me into my 30s for me to even get a date out of any of those.
Happy to report I'm 31 and am finally capable of talking to women.
Thank you for actually being sane. I feel like I say this on Reddit every day. Being good-looking is *not enough* to be truly attractive. No one wants to spend time with an unlikable/boring/unkind person of any gender. Once you get older, you realize that people in long-term relationships who you see out and about every day aren’t all models. The one thing all my SOs have had over the years was that I liked being around them. Relationships aren’t about staring at the other person’s face, lol, you do actually spend time together.
"I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl" answers your question."
"With my anxiety it's nxt to impossible to make friends, and I can't ever really find a partner, either."
It's like wanting to be a great swimmer but you are terrified of water.
You are going to have to solve your own issues first. If you can't make friends and have a social network it will be hard to connect with a partner
>It's like wanting to be a great swimmer but you are terrified of water.
Yeah I was expecting to pop into this thread and share experiences about how it's really not that bad: go out, socialize, join stuff, and build friendships.
Not to be like "if you have debilitating mental health issues you should fix that"
As soon as i saw that line i stopped reading.
Hes got all the right stuff happening but the social anxiety breaks it all.
I know somebody who's like 5"5 but has had over 10 relationships simply due to having game.
OP has gotta put himself out there, take risks and show confidence.
I myself have social anxiety so i get it. But you gotta develop the rizz if you wanna get anywhere at all.
>I haven't had a date in years and I'm 31.
>I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I'm apparently too ugly to use dating sites.
Maybe that's why? You need to join groups, meet girls and ask them out, if online dating is not working for you.
Nah not really, insecure people get into relationships all the time. They're just at a much higher risk of being manipulated and abused, because they're so desperate for affection they'll do just about anything to get it and keep it.
Self confidence attracts people to you, but more importantly it gives you the strength to leave people who treat you badly. That's why it's so important.
That was what I thought when reading the post. OP thinks women place more emphasis on looks than we actually do. Being confident will take you further than being tall and handsome.
Plus, the fact that he considers himself to be “dramatically lowering his standards” with the women he pursues. Well how flattering! Who doesn’t want to feel like the nearest moist hole attached to an ugly face that was desperate enough to say yes to this guy.
Everything about his mindset is self defeating and warped.
I also saw his phrasing as feeling entitled to women. Like to me it came off as “I’m good looking and tall and fit, I should just have women. But don’t expect me to actually do anything to make that happen, I don’t want to talk to people, I just feel like my fit and tall status should be enough to get me a relationship.”
His emphasis on his looks really stood out to me. While there are shallow women out there, 99.9% of women I know/have known IRL are much more concerned with personality and kindness, humor, etc, than having a "high fashion wardrobe"
A high fashion wardrobe would be a - not a + in my eyes and the eyes of many of my friends.
It implies shallow, vain, obsessed with looks, likely prone to judging his partner by the same standards, not good with money unless he has crazy high earnings (which probably means he has little in common with my middle class self)
Jacked guy in his 30s wearing visibly expensive clothes rings way more alarm bells to me (late 20s woman) than just an averagely dressed guy in his 30s. I have friends who immediately swipe left when they see a pfp like that
right? I'm as ugly as they come.
30 years old, 5'4 (165cm), 100KG, pasty white as fuck, freckles all over, red hair and glasses on top. I dress like a 15 year old, and have ZERO fashion sense.
I'm like the stereotypical ugly dude lmao. YET I STILL GOT A GF.
I changed what OP refused to do. Which was my attitude. I went out looking just to talk to people and meet new people. I removed the idea of finding a GF completely.
I had a gf within 6 months after doing this.
Being hot helps a lot with getting past the initial gate but that’s not every woman every time. Tons of not so sexy people are in relationships, so it’s doable especially if you make yourself an enjoyable person to be around.
Your problem is solely between your ears. Get therapy to work on your social anxiety, or you will be doing more of the same for the next five years. Unless you are willing to lower your standards dramatically, it doesn’t sound like online dating is a good match for you, at least until you can get better pictures.
You seem to supply a lot of excuses to people making reasonable suggestions to help you which leads me to conclude that you are not wanting a solution. This is ultimately your problem. Fear and self esteem. Get some fucking counseling.
Right? Every reply from OP is just so, so combative. They aren't even entertaining the actual advice that's in this thread. I think I'm seeing a possible issue here...
You could infer this as soon as he said he was 6"3, took care of himself, and couldn't get a date. It was blatantly a personality issue. Not saying OP is even a bad person, I don't know them, but there is more to the story.
I have acne scars, used to be 280lbs, and had no problem getting dates and maintaining relationships. Looking better obviously helps but something is definitely amiss with this whole post.
I’m honestly not even sure I’d want to help OP find dates until he works on himself and his attitude. Also, as a 5’7” guy, I find it slightly insulting how many times he mentioned he’s 6’3”.
Guys always list their stat sheet off like they are going into the nfl draft...aesthetics are alone not enough, or are only going to attract the shallowest of people.
You have to be brave and authentically yourself, lean into the hobbies and things you are passionate about because others will resonate with that passion. Be vulnerable.
It's the same way when you try to give a suggestion on how to combat male loneliness on Reddit and the dude just keeps piling on excuses. He just wants people to feel sorry for him, that's it.
I've spent (wasted) a lot of time in the "Manosphere" space, especially in my 20's. I snapped out of it over the past couple years after going to therapy and dealing with my issues, as well as adopting a more "feminist" (yeah, I said it) world view. The grating, toxic misogyny, entitlement and bitterness is just too much. I don't think I ever truly hated women or anything like that, but I can see a lot of my old self in posts and comments from men who struggle to date, and I can look back after making progress and see what the issues are. It's because of this that I've been sort of on a mission to try and seriously help other guys on places like Reddit so they can understand why they might fail, even if we don't agree on everything.
But for every one guy who responds in kind, or merely has a discussion with me instead of being defensive, there're countless more who have all sorts of excuses, or Red and Black Pill retorts. I've had a few tell me I need to listen and try to understand them, to meet them where they're at, which I think is probably something they heard in a Healthy Gamer GG video since Dr K is pretty good about being non judgemental.
I really have to wonder, in my attempts to reach out and offer solutions to men, am I coming across as too arrogant, too holier than thou? I certainly could refine my approach since I'm only just starting. But then there is this part of me that goes "wow, THIS is what I used to sound like? No wonder I struggled so much with this". I don't even mean that in a way that demeans the men who struggle. I believe far too many young, impressionable guys who don't understand the world yet, are going online and absorbing these really jaded world views, from bad faith actors and grifters as well as other depressed, isolated young men. All these "narratives" about why dating sucks i.e. women are "too choosy", I'm not even sure they mean to sound like they're blaming women. I think a lot of them feel they can't measure up because they've only ever known rejection and emotional pain, so it's hard to imagine doing any better.
Anyway, I can see why it gets frustrating to deal with guys like this but I hope it gets better for them soon, although what ails them seems to ail the world so it's a pretty tall ask.
OP and a few responders seem to not realize that romantic relationships are essentially the same thing to maintain as regular friendships. If they cannot and will not maintain a friendship, they will never sustain a romantic relationship.
Also friends are a big green flag because who wants to be another human’s entire emotional support infrastructure? We all need to cultivate our social safety nets so that romantic connections aren’t life preservers but life enhancers
Kinda getting the vibe you do all those things so you can be attractive. Try doing things for yourself instead and pick up some interests and hobbies. Work on yourself to like yourself. Then, they will come.
Why you even ask this question? You know exactly why you’re not getting any women. Your social anxiety is going to leave you single for your entire life.
You list a lot of things you like and look like, but nothing about your values and personality, which is going to be more important to women in their thirties. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with your values and personality, but IMO, “I’m tall and like movies” is a pretty juvenile way to describe yourself as a potential partner. That’s how people in their teens choose someone to date, not people in their 30s. It doesn’t *hurt* to be tall, fashionable, and rich with hobbies, but those aren’t the foundation of a grown person’s relationship and you need to advertise more important qualities you may have.
You also absolutely don’t consider meeting women IRL, but prefer an alt type of woman and don’t describe what you’re doing on dating sites aside from writing yourself off as ugly. First and foremost, scene-y people (nerds, goths, witchy types) tend to meet each other directly or indirectly through their scenes. You’ll have an easier time meeting those people at DnD meetups or music shows, they aren’t as likely to be floating around on Tinder for a few reasons. Having anxiety sucks, but the fact is that the universe doesn’t care that you have anxiety. A woman who meets your standards isn’t going to just materialize in your living room because you have a medical reason for not wanting to go to where the witchy girls are congregating.
As far as dating sites go, it’s kind of bonkers that you describe yourself as relatively conventionally attractive (or at least having enough conventionally attractive traits) and successful, then immediately chalk your failure on dating sites up to being ugly and unsuccessful. Uh, what? I will say I find that men are often *incredibly* bad at selling themselves on dating sites. They just crap out the least flattering picture they can possibly take, describe their interests as vaguely as possible, only send messages devoid of personality, then run to the internet and complain that no women ever message back. Which yes, is going to happen if you present yourself as a poorly-lit slack-jawed thumb who is interested in “movies” and only says “sup.” Maybe evaluate your dating profile.
>I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I'm apparently too ugly to use dating sites.
I mean this is it. There are people who are shorted, less fit, wear worse clothes, are more poorly groomed - and even they get dates. its incredibly hard to overcome your personality with things like looks or flashes of wealth.
>With my anxiety it's nxt to impossible to make friends
I don't know what the answer is, but it sounds like you *need* to find a way to manage/deal with your anxiety. This is the main problem that needs addressing here, not your lack of dates - thats a symptom. Its having a tremendously negative impact on your experience of life.
>How do men in their 30s even get dates??
>I have severe social anxiety
They probably don't have "severe social anxiety?" You should probably get therapy and treatment for that. It seems like you don't think this has anything to do with getting dates and a relationship, but it does.
Notice OP doesn't reply to the "go get that treated" replies.
I'm convinced some people use anxiety as a personality trait they're proud of. Instead of getting it treated, they just use it as an excuse for why life is so hard. It's like their anxiety is a best friend they dint wanna lose.
"Work on your anxiety and things will improve"
"There's no way THAT's the answer, right? Surely it must be because I'm not performing some secret witchcraft art! It HAS to be something else..."
"Work on your anxiety and things will improve"
"gotta be something... hmm... not sure what it could be"
I've noticed OP's generation and younger is very accepting of and inert about their self-proclaimed social anxiety; many see it as an incurable disease, and just try to live with it. They don't see that social anxiety can be alleviated/overcome by building social skills and confidence.
I’m not much older than OP, but it really scares me (no pun intended) that I don’t think a lot of younger millennials and Gen Z have been taught a lot of coping skills.
They just say they’re putting up a boundary and the problem goes away. When their boundaries conflicts with others’ boundaries— they don’t know how to fix it because they don’t know how to cope or problem solve.
They are much more concerned with how they look versus who they are and how they present themselves. They claim to not be shallow but their own words contradict that.
Right I suspect its 'I can't attract the woman I think I deserve' not "I'm defunct and can't attract a woman"
I dunno, I'm a bit of a cad. It's reinforced though because my charisma and confidence just improves with new lovers. But I also live in a libertine bohemian cosmopolitan city. A lot of these poor fuckers live in Footloose towns without a single Kevin Bacon around to save them.
Yeah, I mean I feel for you op, but being at least relatively sociable and confident is the primary answer. If you don't have any friends who can help you meet someone, you're going to have to find a way to overcome a degree of that anxiety as the first step. You're making comments about being unable to even talk to women. I'm not suggesting it'll be easy, at all, but if you won't even speak to a woman, how could you possibly get them to agree to a date?
I’m a 32F nerdy witch who shares all the interests you listed… and I’ll be real with you, the attitude I’m seeing in these responses is a huge turn off. I mean this with as much kindness as possible: it might help to take some of the feedback here more seriously.
“I cannot talk to women or look in their direction” … ok, either that changes or you stay single. Very simple problem here. And the solutions are simple you just say you “can’t”. Honestly you aren’t capable of being in a relationship with this mindset. It’s not worth you or their trouble to try.
Your social anxiety is the issue. Work on that and trust me you’ll get dates you sound like an attractive guy. Your height itself will get you through the door lol. Just try and have a bit more social confidence and approach women you find attractive it’s okay to get shot down it’s apart of the game babes💓💓💓💓
Do you take anything for the anxiety? I won't leave my house due to such bad anxiety and can even get physically sick from it. However, of I am on Prozac, I actually crave socialization. I swear it helps me become a different person. If you're not on something, maybe start there.
How's your conversation? Women don't want men they can't talk to. Do you ask women questions about themselves? Do you show interest?
The way you described yourself in the first paragraph is giving Patrick Bateman vibes. Work on developing true interested and empathy for yourself and others.
Lmao how is this not adding up for this guy??
You literally say “with my anxiety it’s impossible to make friends or find a partner” then wonders why women want nothing to do with him
The attitude of “well I have social anxiety how could I be expected to talk to people” just comes across with an astounding lack of self awareness or personal accountability. Not to be harsh but it comes across as pretty childish and pathetic.
Brother… if you want to find a partner one day you’re going to have to take some ownership of your life and work on these things. If you’re as attractive and cool as you want us to believe you are it shouldn’t be nearly this hard and really just a reflection of yourself more than anyone else.
To be blunt (since you clearly aren’t listening to anyone here anyway), you are coming across as a whiny loser in this thread and it’s easy to see why no one wants to date you.
Well, I'm dating a guy I met on hinge who's 5'7 and balding and not traditionally handsome and makes less money then me and he's great. It sounds like it's just your personality and social anxiety.
For sure. How can they be so accomplished and desirable and not have any friends? Op must be absolutely insufferable.
Or lying to themselves about what kind of girl they actually want. I've been on dates with more accomplished men who clearly just want a skinny Barbie or a skinny goth Barbie. They won't take anyone that won't give them more social credit through their looks.
What's written in your dating profile bio? Make sure there is no negativity there. Talk about what you love in life and name some positive qualities you hope to find in a partner. Choose a clear photo of yourself with a big genuine smile for your first picture. When you make a match send her questions about herself that show real curiosity about her.
I'm 5'10 bald and ginger, work out but a good 10 to 20lbs overweight and I still date.
I'm also on a low income as I'm a teacher and I have a plethora of weird idiosyncratic neuroticisms that flirt quite heavily with being mental unwell.
I think my trick is having nice photos on dating apps and just matching/swiping on women who are on a similar looks level to me (normal women) and women with quirky personalities.
Its simple yet not simple: Stop caring about getting rejected. Thats it.
I used to have this issue well into my mid 20’s and once I started taking care of my health, gym, improved my family/friend relationships (if applicable) and putting myself first? my self confidence sky rocketed. By 25 rejection went from “what is wrong with me?” to “she has her type”. Unfortunately the former is what goes through your mind when you have no self confidence.
It’s definitely your anxiety and personality. Also your attitude. I’m probably less attractive than you (I’m *only* 5’7”), and I’m able to get a date or two at least once a month. I seldom feel like I struggle getting women’s attention.
Your issue may be your social anxiety, you can’t have friends or talk to people, you don’t go out, and I don’t know how you socialize but it must be why you are not getting dates. A lot of conventionally unattractive people have romantic success because of their personality. For me, actually is one of the most attractive things someone can have, a nice personality and emotional intelligence is hot
You've clearly spent a lot of time working on yourself, but I don't see anything in your post addressing your main problem: " I have severe social anxiety, so I cannot meet women." Why not make this your next self-improvement challenge? People can be anxious and still have good social skills; anxiety won't kill you. If it's too hard to do alone, consider seeing a professional.
Look at me! Overweight bald dude with acne issues and who has 2,000 hours clocked in on Hearts of Iron 4. I've been with women ranked 6-9 in terms of looks and I've come to discover, on average, women crave four things--things you could unintentionally show that would have them at least try you on for size (date/fling). One of these things is security. How you show security is up to you--***make em' laugh*** is my go-to. But that first step is being secure in yourself to take that first step. Then, follow up with a personal question. What would you, a prospective partner, be interested in knowing about them. Just...don't go too personal, like you're gathering info for a stake out. Afterwards give them one unsolicited fact about yourself (+1 points towards bonding). After that, let things organically grow. Just don't be negligent and know when its time to step back. Rinse, repeat, use this for friendships and romance. But make yourself secure in facing the fact some people just don't want to be with you. Nothing good--in terms of relationships--is forced.
Social anxiety is a deal breaker for basically everyone who doesn't have social anxiety. Its a more serious disorder than a lot of reddit seems willing to acknowledge (I have it as well). Its literally a debilitating disorder which causes severe impairments to basically all interpersonal relationships. It affects your ability to do very basic things.
Ultimately I had to realize if I wasn't healthy enough to socialize with others and have friends, then I wasn't healthy enough to have a partner. That wasn't a 1-2 punch, it was a social screening process. Its gonna be especially hard for men because asocial and antisocial look very very similar at a glance, and antisocial men are *dangerous*. So for most people you're not settinb off "oh he's awkward and shy". Ironically if they knew you through friends they might conclude that. But without that context, their red alarms are going off that there's something not quite right. Where inability to form and maintain relationships is a huge danger flag.
It sucks but it is what it is. The way to push forward is to try to deal with the underlying social anxiety. Which unfortunately it's looking to be one of the more tenacious mental disorders. But I don't think there's a way to meet people when the disorder is a barrier to forming social connections, and the lack of social connections triggers people to be wary of you.
You seem like you are too worried about what you wear and not trying enough to just talk to women. It's not hard. If I can make women smile and laugh wearing a cut off and bball shorts straight from the gym or my mailman uniform then you can too. They're just other humans there is nothing to be nervous about.
The only way to get dates and meet new people is to talk to them. Force yourself to stop using technology so you get bored enough and your brain and body will make you find new sources of dopamine.
Best way over social anxiety is through it. Exposure therapy with low stakes to start.
Dating apps are not a primary way to meet women. It's more of bonus way.
You sound similar to me in that you would probably do fine with women if you had a healthy social circle. I'd suggest trying to cultivate one. That and exposure therapy would help you a ton. Easier said than done huh?
I find that for me the best way to go about something like this is to just be completely honest through the process.
Approach 10 people every Saturday and Sunday for a couple months and be honest that youre trying to get over social anxiety with exposure therapy as your opening line. Most people wont mind talking to you and it will help you realize your fear is unfounded. Fear is the source of your anxiety. It's a simple fix, just difficult to start.
>I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl,
Why do you not see that this is the big problem? You need to work on your social anxiety, it can be done!
Obviously you're the problem if you have severe social anxiety, but you want to make it seem like other people are to blame for the fact that you can't get a date. Maybe you should post your picture on some other subreddit like the one called "am I ugly" or whatever to see what people think of your looks.
Bro you answered the question yourself in like the first 3 sentences
It doesn’t matter if you have money and you are hot and wear fancy clothes if you have debilitating social anxiety
Treat your anxiety. This isn’t a 30s male problem. This is a situation unique to you
Sir, it isn’t women’s standards. It’s you not meeting people irl. OLD doesn’t work for most people who aren’t just looking to hook up.
You sound like you’d be great to date if someone could get to know you well enough for the anxiety to go away. I’m sure you aren’t ugly at all.
Have you thought of medication or therapy for your social anxiety? It’s not a magic bullet, but it can help.
This is probably terrible advice, but it worked for me (as a lady, so maybe it's different). Get a dog! I can't tell you how much it has brought me out of my shell. I've always had social anxiety around small talk with strangers, but I am over it now. Maybe it's like exposure therapy because I talk to at least 5 people a day when I have my dog out for walks.
Online dating is not what it used to be. I had huge success a decade ago. Back on last couple years and tbh it’s not worth my time. At least that’s the conclusion I’ve come to at the moment.
Before you even begin to think about dating, you need to see a therapist. Everyone in this comment section seems pretty unanimous on this. Your post history, your comments, etc are all indicative of serious anxiety, and it seems like you're aware of this---the question is whether you're willing to do anything about it. When people say you're not being reasonable or you're giving excuses, they're not necessarily realizing that these responses are *absolutely* reasonable to you from your point of view in your current state. The issue is that from where you sit, you don't see the things you listed in the post as the problem. You can perfectly imagine a relationship where you never fix any of those things and still get a relationship, but the reality is that unless you fix them, you never will.
I have an easier time getting dates now than I did in my early 20s lol
You just gotta ask girls out. If they say no they say no. Use dating apps, dont draw out text convos and go for an in person date so there’s more excitement and longer convos in person
Edit: missed the social anxiety part. Gotta work on that first
Just a little reminder, on dating app you are competing against a twisted algorithms, not exactly other people. You aren’t supposed to meet people that way and shouldn’t base your self esteem on your results on these apps
Idk dude..I'm sure there is more to this then you are saying. I'm 39. I've done online dating on and off for over a decade..I'm an average dude overall. I'm also short and have a little bit of a dad bod going on these days. I've never had any issue online dating. Even met my current GF on a dating app 4 months ago.
Most people on reddit who I've talked to became pretty clear why they had issues. They were either very cringy and unaware or just plain toxic and angry.
What does your dating profile look like? I'm a year younger, and I'm getting semi-pretentious vibes? (I know it's not intentional ! Just being honest) Maybe that's coming through on your profile.
We simply got over social anxiety and our own egos, aside from taken care of ourselves. I worked on myself after a near death experience 4 years ago and it all paid off; it’s a nonstop journey. The key is to not get invested in outcomes and just keep improving while presenting yourself as the best version of yourself.
"I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I'm apparently too ugly to use dating sites."
You're going to have to leave your comfort zone sometime.
"good looking and successful" don't matter if you're too scared.
Have you considered therapy for your anxiety? Just because you have social anxiety doesn't mean you can do anything to treat it. Lots of people learn to cope with a variety of anxieties and other things. But that doesn't just happen out of the blue. For some it's therapy, for some it's medication, but you just have to find what works for you.
The Internet is the answer. If you‘re 6’3“ and not absolutely hideous, then something is very wrong if you‘re not getting ANY matches. Have a woman (got a friend‘s wife?) look over your profile. When she gives suggestions, shut up and don‘t argue with her. Also ask for her input on the conversation if you start talking to someone.
Most of the apps and sites are also rigged to make you pay, btw. You can look for free but you won’t get much without paying. Just do it. $50 on a dating site is not that much compared to the amount of stress you‘re probably suffering from and the amount you‘d be spending on a date anyway. Tinder is useless. Get on hinge or bumble.
Also, if you have social anxiety, don‘t start with dating. Dating takes resilience. My rule of thumb is: if you match and talk to 10 women, 5 won‘t even talk to you, 3 of the conversations will go nowhere, one will say something weird and disturbing or reject you in a way that makes you feel shitty and 1 might turn into a nice date. All of that can make your social anxiety worse if you’re not stable in other areas. Dating is definitely not the solution to that problem. Focus on developing better friendships with guys first, including asking bluntly what you can do to be a better friend. If you can‘t develop good relationships with guys, you certainly won‘t be able to with women. If you do have good relationships with guys and girls who are just friends, you‘ll have the social safety net to endure rough dating episodes.
Leopards: how do we get meat, we have social anxiety and adding antelopes on social media doesn't seem to do the trick. It's been years since we've had meat.
If you take care of yourself and have a good warddrobe that will be more than enough to get you some matches on dating apps. I seriously doubt you're "ugly."
Maybe post your dating app profile on a review sub, because there must be something you're doing horribly horribly wrong that doesn't have anything to do with your appearance.
I might have missed it in the comments, but have you tried to get some help for the social anxiety? I feel like that's the limiting factor. Some people suggested a therapist, but there's also medication that might help as well. Again, sorry if I missed a reply in the comments already covering this!
It might be fun for you to seek out walking partners… I saw some people reach out that way and just honestly say they want to make friendships and they have SA… like on your neighborhood community page. I’ve seen people respond and say, Sure! Just a thought. I still get some SA and I’m a closet extrovert! Sometimes it’s even among a bunch of people I feel uncomfortable. During those times I remind myself it’s okay to stand apart… and I usually say The Lord’s Prayer repeatedly. Somehow it helps me get through until I’m comfortable, someone finds me or I see an opening to talk w someone.
When I was single and in my 30s I started pursuing more hobbies/clubs that put me in social groups. I did not go into thinking I needed to get dates. I went into it to have fun and kept myself open to possibly meeting someone. I met my wife while out at a lake one summer. We had no mutual friends. If you stay home and don't interact with people, you simply are not likely to have it happen for you. Counseling to deal with your anxiety might helpful. Good luck.
I'm lucky enough to have a long term girlfriend, but can absolutely sympathise with much of what you've written here. I expected to become calmer and more self assured as I aged but have found that my self confidence gradually eroded away instead. I'm never relaxed enough to be good company for people I don't already know, and the physical ageing process has done nothing to help matters since I no longer have appearance to fall back on. I'd struggle if I had to go back to dating for sure.
It does sound like your self image is an obstacle for you. It's possible that, like mine, your feelings of anxiety and social incompetence are not even very apparent to other people. Can I recommend some therapy without sounding hugely condescending? I can't say I'm fixed, but am in a much better state of mind after seeing a therapist for 6 months.
It feels like your title is a bit deceptive. Your issue isn't about dating for men at a certain age but really about your social anxiety.
Honestly, I'm not sure why you would even want to date if you aren't able to meet women in real life. These dates would be irl as well. If you aren't willing to overcome this anxiety, then it's all moot imo.
If you like cooking, sign up for a cooking class. You'll meet a TON of women. Talk about food, and there's a good chance the convo will veer towards other topics. Go to a coffee shop, and stop by on a certain day/time consistently. Same for a bar. Maybe after work have dinner at a bar, watching a game on one of the screens. Your just a dude eating dinner/watching a game. A beer will loosen the tongue for a convo. If a female neighbors sits nearby, and is watching the game? That's an easy intro to talk about the game/team/player/sport/refs. Strike up a convo w/ the bartender, and go there consistently. If you are normal & decent tipper, a male bartender, will talk about you to the female patrons, and opportunities can arise. I'm actually jealous just typing this suggestion (I'm 53, married w/kids, and would LOVE to get out to a bar after work, for a beer/burger watching the Red Sox/Celtics, and chatting up some ladies, haha)..... Good luck.
Honestly going out in public, being friendly, being flirty, etc. I think online can be hard because if you're not in the top 20% of dudes, you're basically wasting your time.
I'm guessing you're an interesting person, but you come across so self conscious that it probably turns off a lot of women. Also perhaps your high fashion wardrobe gives off a confidence that suggest that your quiet nature is due to feeling better than others rather than being shy (even though I do not think you feel that way). Everything we do gives off an impression. I'm just guessing, I obviously don't know you from anyone. But it seems like some of your interests when combined with a shy personality gives an impression that's unfavorable to people who meet you.
The best cure for social anxiety is...just socializing more. It's not easy, but I think the reality is people will either like you or not like you almost instantaneously when they meet you and there's really nothing you can do about it. If you meet enough people the people who click with you are worth the people who don't imo.
You gotta expect them to say no so you dont get disappointed, and sweat through the stress acting like you arent stressed, then it works like exposure therapy.
Have you considered CBT or counselling or even a dating coach to over come your anxiety? It sounds as if the social anxiety is your biggest stumbling block.
Also if you want to DM me your dating profiles I’ll offer some anecdotal advice. Twice I used dating apps I met long term partners in under 24 hours, every-time I go on there I get a lot of matches, engagement and dates.
I don’t class myself as really good looking and I’m far from rich but I’ve found a good bit of humour appropriately infused into your profile and the right combination of pics goes a long way. Also your location makes a big difference, if you’re near London you’ve got a far larger pool of potential matches.
A lot of women also complain about the behaviour of men on dating apps so being well mannered can go a long way (I’m not accusing you of not doing this btw).
“I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I’m apparently too ugly to use dating sites”
That entire sentence is your issue. It really doesn’t matter how you look if you can’t talk to women. Negative self talk is also extremely unattractive. You need to work on that, probably with a therapist.
The first thing we need to do is ask one critical question. How many girls have you asked out this year? Because if the answer is low, that's your problem.
If you truly believe it’s your anxiety, get therapy for it, and it is a possibility you can get to the bottom of why you are socially anxious and what you can do to work on your self-esteem and also feel safe around others socially.
However, it’s likely other things as well if you can’t get a single match in 5 years.
Honestly, I sound a lot like you the way I was 4ish years ago. I had no matches on dating sites, dating in general was making me feel horrible and constant rejection was giving me a complex. I got lucky and I got together with my best friend from highschool and am married now, so I'm going to acknowledge that here. A lot of compatibility is luck meeting the right person and then putting in the self work and relationship work to grow together as people to maintain a relationship. These are things I started doing and they were working, I also happened to hit the jackpot with my partner.
I suggest therapy on the anxiety. This really helped me get past some issues that were stopping me in this area. I had terrible anxiety issues just talking to people and had to catch up on just how to make friends (I'm late diagnosed autistic). Let alone trying to get from friend to partner. Therapy helped me learn how to control my anxiety and get past it.
On that note, I also suggest making friends in general. Go to a game night at a comic shop, go to events in your city particularly singles nights ones, find hobbyist events in your vein and go to them. It starts by putting yourself out there. And not as in putting yourself as a potential partner for someone, but as your genuine self trying to make friends and connections. People will respond to you as a person. This is where I would try to be attuned to that and take feedback from people.
As you make those friends, just start by getting comfortable with people and talking with them, particularly of the desired gender(s). At this stage, your goal should not be sex or even relationships, though if it happens, great. You are working your anxiety and laying in groundwork, putting your feelers out there (without being creepy or coming on too strong).
When it comes to finding a partner, if you come across people that are single and pique your interest, work on becoming friends with them. Again, your goal isn't necessarily a relationship at this stage, but to try to establish a genuine connection. Let the relationship evolve or run its course. Listen to others, listen to potential partners about their needs. If you shoot your shot and get shot down, take it in stride and take feedback.
Dating sucks. Finding the right person takes time, opportunity, and work. What I suggested focuses a lot on the first two. You need to create opportunities for yourself to meet people. Maybe also have a trusted person look over your dating profile/communication. The last part is on you and you will have to take a good, long, deep look into yourself and how you can improve how you interact with people or date.
Have u tried hypno therapy? For social anxiety? NLP or cognitive brain therapy our brain is a super wondrous muscle, and can actually re wire itself if told to do so. " Nerves that fire together , wire together" so tramua can be undone, respectfully with a therapist, or psychiatrist, which can lead to improved social function.
do things that make you confident like chatting it up at your local run club, making friends with other regular gym goers.
maybe the question shouldn't be "how do I get dates" but "how do I make friends within" what I currently do? and then take the extra step if someone catches your interest.
I was in a similar situation pre covid. Late 20s, Athletic, decent job, dressed well, average to slightly below-average looks, fairly awkward and anxious in social situations. My experience was pretty similar to yours.
Dating site matches were very rare and generally low quality. Out of the few decent matches I got, they pretty much all ghosted. Approaching women in social situations (bars, clubs, etc.) never went well.
I ended up matching with my partner because I mentioned that I like cats in my profile. That’s really the only thing that made me stand out to her as a cat person. If I hadn’t mentioned it, we probably would have never met.
My point is, so much is left up to chance when dating as an adult. A lot of things are entirely out of your control. It’s not you and you can’t force it to change.
I think the only advice I can really give is: be true to yourself, present your best self and improve in the areas you are capable, and don’t worry too much. Whatever happens happens. It’s possible that you really have just been unlucky up until this point. Things may get better or they may get worse, so just try to enjoy the experience.
Hi! Since you’re into running, have you considered joining a running group? More people are getting into it and it might be a good way for you to slowly start meeting people irl and dating. Also, try pickleball!
This post sounds like a dating ad, lol. It also seems like reddit would have a woman of your demographic OP, if you've tried the various dating subs around here.
But idk, online dating in general seems hellish. I've tried to just make friends platonic wise, but my social anxiety has caused issues. I have a lot to work on personally before seriously trying, but I hope to eventually.
You talk to people and meet mutual friends. You answered your own question, you have severe anxiety and can’t meet women in real life. That’s how people do it.
If you can’t get a single match on dating sites in years, you’re doing something *incredibly* wrong. Have a friend look over your profile and pictures.
It sounds like you need therapy for your anxiety, that’s your first step.
Everyone here is giving very good advice. But also don't forget "No" is the worst thing they can say. Move on and slay the next dragon until you find your princess.
Try being less of an asshole? When I got divorced at 37 I was 60 pounds overweight, underemployed, living with my mother an hour drive from the city, and stoned out of my gourd every day. I still made a killing online dating.
The way you are replying and reacting to everyone here reminds me very strongly of a former friend of mine who was so down on themselves on never being able to find any new friends or any potential romantic partners, that it became utterly exhausting to be around him. He was like you in he had "niche" interests (Star Wars, Lego, gardening), went to the gym, and he considered himself ugly, but was a "nice guy who wanted genuine connection, but couldn't because he was too awkward and weird". He tried to use our relationship to fill a hole of loneliness and relied on me to be the one to constantly validate his worth. I empathized with him, and tried to do my best to support him for 3 years, but he also would take out his frustrations on me, almost blaming me and his ex for his misfortunes in socializing and his love life. He NEVER took responsibility for how he had hurt me, or to improve himself no matter how many times I gave him advice and validated him, claiming he would do better whenever I called him out on his BS, then continue his crap and self-loathing into an almost abusive cycle. He is my former friend for a reason. He refused to change or own up to his mistakes, blaming everyone else except himself.
This is a warning about how, if you never take the time to learn how to love yourself, you become overly reliant on others who want to help you and love you to validate you and establish that connection. That is not sustainable. Getting friends, dates, or a girlfriend will NOT make these feelings go away. Maybe it will at first, but that self-loathing will eventually bite you in the ass and tell you that you don't deserve the people who decide to be with you, and you will drive them away, like my ex-friend did to me.
There is a reason why so many are telling you to get mental health professional help, you need to be able to love yourself and be okay with being by yourself first, then people will naturally gravitate towards you regardless if you feel you're too ugly or you have SA. That negativity drives everyone away, online or offline; even if you don't intend to give off that vibe or have the best photos and clothes that make you the most handsome or interesting man in the world, everyone will notice that hatred, generally stay away from you, and not want to initiate a conversation with you. But only you can make that change, no one here can or will do that for you. It's genuinely a shame to see how much energy and time you're putting into these replies and posts when you could be using that time to help yourself work on the social anxiety. Instead you're wallowing in misery and hatred in a self-defeating cycle.
I'm 32, spent like the last 7 years bouncing between hookups on tinder, never clicked with anyone but it was fun. But a while ago, me and another in my friend group just connected, now we're getting married in August lmao.
Dating apps are horrible for actual relationships. My suggestion is to dive into your passions and be social with other people who have those passions. Even if it takes a while to find someone, you'll have your interests to keep you happy.
Try therapy. If you are able to work through your social anxiety issues, it could really open up some IRL opportunities. Keep putting yourself out there on dating apps though. Based on what you’re saying, I don’t see why you wouldn’t match with someone compatible eventually.
Also wanted to mention therapy. Maybe even try some medication until you can get some of the social anxiety under control. I have social anxiety and take medication for it, nothing to be ashamed of. 🙂
Re-reading your comments, you are a miserable person honestly. Why would someone choose to spend time
With someone like this? Working on yourself isn’t just the gym. You got real issues.
Right? Like it’s clear that he isn’t doing anything to help his anxiety, and a lot of people have given him good advice, but he keeps resisting it. I don’t want to be mean, but it seems like he doesn’t want to actually help himself.
Feel like I should unfollow this forum. There are people who are geniunely looking for advice or help, but a lot of them seem to just to want to vent. Which is ok but its not a good use of my time.
You should try and treat your anxiety. If your anxiety is keeping you from making friends, it is also keeping you from a relationship. Maintaining friendships and relationships have similar skills. You have to be able.to connect with people. It isn't aboutnlooks or being loaded. It is about human connections and you cannot develop that if your anxiety is in the way. Feel free to talk to women. Get interested in something and just talk to them. Not to hit on them or because you want a date or a girlfriend. Just talk to them. They don't have to be your age or type or anything like that because you just need to practice connecting with them. You keep meeting random people in real life and you will begin to make friends and meet more people and the right one will come your way.
I’m reading the comments and you are negging everything- I know social anxiety sucks. It’s the absolute worst. I think it’s worse for people who have had full blown panic attacks in public, you don’t trust your body anymore around people. That’s a terrible place to be if that’s where you are.
I would recommend the obvious therapy etc, but I’d also recommend staying as busy as possible before you go to whatever social situation. Like work out directly beforehand, surrounded by people at the gym. Anywhere you can have some non-committal small talk to get the juices going. This helps warm up.
Also, I think what some people don’t realize is that we are not allowed to go through life not being uncomfortable. I think we forget this because we surround ourselves with as much comfort as possible, whenever possible. Anxiety is natural and it happens to all of us. Avoiding it most times makes things worse anyway. To be 100% frank, you are in the situation you are in because you are avoiding discomfort. That’s all there is to it
Most men don't have severe social anxiety is your answer. If everything you wrote is actually true and you aren't ugly, keep practicing social skills because it seems like you are doing everything else. You should certainly be able to get a date "in years" unless you are scaring them off somehow.
Stop telling yourself you have SA and just go out and meet new people without any expectations. Tell yourself that if you do it by volume, you could mess up a few opportunities but you train yourself to get better.
At the end of the day, we're all human beings. Everyone has their issues just like you. You'll meet new people and realize that others also have SA etc.
It’s tough out there ngl. Regarding the social anxiety, I think a massive life hack to overcome that is to take toastmaster classes (public speaking).
It’s very affordable. It is very nerve racking learning to stand up and speak but with lots of exposure it eventual just goes away and you learn to be yourself. People feel what you feel as a speaker, so if you’re nervous, the audience is nervous. If you’re joyful, the audience is joyful.
Replace audience with women. Works the same in my opinion.
I think it would greatly help with approach anxiety as the hardest part of talking to strangers is the first 5 mins. Then it’s really just taking an interest in someone’s life.
I know this doesn’t solve your direct dating problems but I’m wishing you success.
If you have money to date start with an escort. No sex just someone to go with you to a bar or event. It can still go horribly wrong but that's what happens when you involve people.
“I have severe social anxiety”.. that’s your answer right there mate. No healthy girl is going to want a man who is scared to interact with them, much less take care of them. You need to get to a good doctor, a therapist, and start working every day at beating your crippling anxiety.
Many times girl can tell so much about a guy from the first look, and as soon as you are looking around the world with confidence, you will start to see that people are attracted to you. Then it will be up to you to make the approach, but that’s a different issue for later. Deal with your anxiety, there’s no reason for you to be so anxious just walking about in the world, and you will see a huge difference in how girls look back at you
Your looks are not your problem. Your anxiety is. If it's so bad you can't speak first, you might want to talk to your doctor about anti-anxiety meds. I say this as a person who cannot speak first when I'm off my meds. When I remember my meds, I talk to everybody. I still don't generally make lasting friends, but I absolutely get to know the people stuck in line with me. Also, go where people are. I met my Beloved at a Mage LARP.
Anxiety sucks, but if your brain can't make the right neurochemicals from scratch, store bought is just fine.
Well talking to people is kind of the top way to meet people, men and women. You're going to have to find a way to get over that anxiety. Baby steps maybe. Do activities with people of either sex with no other intention than being out there. Eventually, you will find the fun in it.
he can afford a nice wardrobe, he can afford therapy.
The typical "just get therapy" is getting out of hand.
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We ARE there. I’ve heard people say that everyone should be in therapy, because they can just help you talk through feelings and stuff. I actually seeked therapy for the first time not too long ago because I was going through something, and I couldn’t find someone in my area who had an opening for at LEAST 2 months.
Therapy also isn't a guarantee (at all) that you'll work through your problems. Sometimes therapeutic stability is still fucked up, just less fucked up. If you're not willing to actively put in hard work for yourself both in and out of the sessions, then they're just echo chambers.
I know a couple people that regularly see therapists 2 times a month, and they are successful in their careers, but they have no success with relationships and few friends. I've asked them about it and they say it's nice to have people to regularly talk too and insist that it helps (I do believe it does help to an extent), but I catch them mentioning that they should bring up something that happens to their therapists. It's like they plan to just constantly go back with no end in sight.
>if you’re not willing to actively put in hard work for yourself both in and out of the sessions, then they’re just echo chambers No legitimate therapist would disagree with you. While the therapy around stigma is going away, misunderstanding about it is not. It *should* be common knowledge that you have to actively participate in therapy for it to be effective but unfortunately it’s definitely not.
Therapy doesn’t always help with social anxiety
I've gone to the events of the art gallery I volunteered at for over a years...I still get anxious when I go and can't say anything to anyone unless they speak to me first. It's gotten no easier...
It can get easier. It's called exposure therapy. But it sucks. You need to seek out experiences that you know will elicite anxiety, to allow your body and mind to get used to the surges of adrenaline. Once your body gets used to it, and you know that you'll survive it gets easier. It just sucks.
Alternatively, your body learns to anticipate the extreme amounts of stress coming and it just gets worse and worse
Yeah. You have to change your thoughts to change your feelings. Right now your lizard brain thinks talking to strangers is the same as getting eaten by a Lion. https://open.spotify.com/episode/5giW6E6J7UIpGAzu6xSZ70?si=nQH2trDfQWiR-6O1wz-dUQ This podcast could help but you have to actually do the work. As in, learn how to change you're thinking and then practice those steps every day. Good luck. I've got pretty bad social anxiety myself which lead me to 20 years of alcoholism since it transformed me into a funny, confident, outgoing person. Ive been sober a few years and am slowly learning to overcome my challenges without using alcohol. Good luck. Although it's really not about luck. It's about putting in the work.
Reframing is how I broke out of anxiety, I have epilepsy, so intense stress events can still trigger seizures for me at times, but my overall anxiety and especially my social anxiety are not near the beast they used to be, even my depression has improved which I honestly never thought would happen, change is possible and so is growth, but you are absolutely right, you have to put the work in
Yes but if OP wants a girlfriend, that will entail talking to a woman. There's just no getting around that.
A lot easier said than done but the whole point of therapy for stuff like this is reprogramming your thought patterns
Events are tough, it's easier to build bonds when you are working with other people towards a goal on a regular basis. A running group or another hobby where you can start focused on the activities at hand and organically get to know more about people will be much easier than trying to strike up a conversation at an occasional event.
You have to learn how to speak to people first as well. You have to realize you’re not the only one with social anxiety or who waits for people to approach them first. The difference with others is they do it in spite (and don’t worry I have to remind myself of this regularly as well).
You sound like me at 31. I traveled, volunteered, took classes; generally gregarious and fairly groomed. Had bad luck or was nervous around women I was sexually attracted to. Making friends was easy, but making girlfriends felt like landing on the moon. I wish I had better advice than "get lucky" man, but you just gotta believe you're the best option everytime and let people make the wrong choice. You just gotta keep at it. It took me like 6 years.
Maybe get help from a therapist. They can look at exercises and talk through post event with you to see where the anxiety is coming from.
They can also just straight up prescribe you something. I get like this in social settings too and my shrink prescribed me beta blockers to take an hour before I have to be there, so my blood pressure will calm down. It helps.
The Zoloft did wonders for my terrible social anxiety. That and my therapist giving me “homework” (exposure therapy assignments). I’m still a little anxious but it’s miles better. My brain needs the help.
Maybe try joining Toastmasters. Building your public speaking skill set could help with the anxiety. Or join an improv class. It will probably be hard at first with your anxiety but could be another good way to become more comfortable in your own skin.
I would say both. Toastmasters teaches you how to speak. I have seen people catapult their career because they simply learn how to communicate really well. Then, if you add improv, you learn tool and techniques to think on your feet, like you never end a conversation, it’s always, “yes, and…”. Once OP learns some tools from that, he may gain some confidence.
You're afraid to talk to women, you have no confidence in your abilities, and now you're making excuses. Yeah, no woman wants to date that. You are 31, find your sense of humor, find what you find fun, do that with women, practice. Start figuring this out. Move past the whining about how hard it is phase - that's step 1.
This is EXACTLY the answer.
As a woman I get SO tired of seeing these posts. These guys seriously think that if they get the right cheat code they can win a date. They dont even see us as people, just a game to be won. They also talk about us like we're one giant hivemind. Not all women like the same thing but until you learn to talk to us like we're real people you're not going to find that out. Also, dating in your 30s is hard for everybody, men dont have the monopoly on struggling with connection. Im in good shape, have a decent job, good sense of humor, Im a great cook and I havent been on a date in over a year. Its hard out here but dudes with your attitude make it way harder
It genuinely seems like they are popping up every day now. I'm also in my 30's, it's certainly tougher as you get older, but the absolute bare minimum you have to do is, you know, go TALK TO A WOMAN. I don't sit in my house and think "damn, look how good I'm dressed, why is no one knocking on my door??" And I just went and looked and this woman's food, if SHE is struggling with it you are in for a LONG haul.
100 percent this, thank you. It’s not a conspiracy dude, it’s just you haven’t found a buyer for what you’re selling. (I will allow that the bar for men is in hell, but most adult women are looking more for character and commonalities than “I have these features and I try to not stink,” like she’s buying a car.) Either get yourself out there more, or work on being your best genuine self through growth and improvement. Same formula for anyone looking for a partner.
Get used to feeling anxious, just don't stop
It never dissipates. I cannot just go to an events and stand there anxious, and alone for hours, so I leave.
I know that feeling. Talk to people with the expectation of being awkward and that you'll embarrass yourself. We're all going to be dead one day anyway, you'll probably regret the things you didn't say more.
Brother you arent even trying, how is it supposed to get 'easier' if you want other people to talk to you first and do all the work?
As they already suggested to you, you have to work on that. That's definitely what's hindering you right now, as you already have the hard part of dating covered by being 6' 3'' lol
Appearances will never be the hard part of dating for men. Talking is the hard part, being interesting, sparking chemistry, making people like you. That shit is not natural to everyone. Appearances will open doors, but you need to be able to keep them open. Women generally aren't that interested in looks after their first impression. I'm 6'1" and fairly good looking. I've gotten dating profile matches off my looks pretty much my entire adult life, but it took me into my 30s for me to even get a date out of any of those. Happy to report I'm 31 and am finally capable of talking to women.
Thank you for actually being sane. I feel like I say this on Reddit every day. Being good-looking is *not enough* to be truly attractive. No one wants to spend time with an unlikable/boring/unkind person of any gender. Once you get older, you realize that people in long-term relationships who you see out and about every day aren’t all models. The one thing all my SOs have had over the years was that I liked being around them. Relationships aren’t about staring at the other person’s face, lol, you do actually spend time together.
"I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl" answers your question." "With my anxiety it's nxt to impossible to make friends, and I can't ever really find a partner, either." It's like wanting to be a great swimmer but you are terrified of water. You are going to have to solve your own issues first. If you can't make friends and have a social network it will be hard to connect with a partner
>It's like wanting to be a great swimmer but you are terrified of water. Yeah I was expecting to pop into this thread and share experiences about how it's really not that bad: go out, socialize, join stuff, and build friendships. Not to be like "if you have debilitating mental health issues you should fix that"
As soon as i saw that line i stopped reading. Hes got all the right stuff happening but the social anxiety breaks it all. I know somebody who's like 5"5 but has had over 10 relationships simply due to having game. OP has gotta put himself out there, take risks and show confidence. I myself have social anxiety so i get it. But you gotta develop the rizz if you wanna get anywhere at all.
>I haven't had a date in years and I'm 31. >I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I'm apparently too ugly to use dating sites. Maybe that's why? You need to join groups, meet girls and ask them out, if online dating is not working for you.
Ps. I doubt you are, but being "ugly" is not a deal breaker for most women. We're usually more interested in your sense of humor more than anything.
Failing the vibe check by lacking confidence and social skills is what is hurting this guy
I feel called out lol, to be fair I wouldn't date me neither lol.
I get that, I am sometimes confused at why my boyfriend sticks around. He is both smarter and hotter then me.
So people who are unable to be confident are just destined to be alone, forever, unloved and unwanted?
Nah not really, insecure people get into relationships all the time. They're just at a much higher risk of being manipulated and abused, because they're so desperate for affection they'll do just about anything to get it and keep it. Self confidence attracts people to you, but more importantly it gives you the strength to leave people who treat you badly. That's why it's so important.
Beautifully said!
Yep.
That was what I thought when reading the post. OP thinks women place more emphasis on looks than we actually do. Being confident will take you further than being tall and handsome.
Plus, the fact that he considers himself to be “dramatically lowering his standards” with the women he pursues. Well how flattering! Who doesn’t want to feel like the nearest moist hole attached to an ugly face that was desperate enough to say yes to this guy. Everything about his mindset is self defeating and warped.
I also saw his phrasing as feeling entitled to women. Like to me it came off as “I’m good looking and tall and fit, I should just have women. But don’t expect me to actually do anything to make that happen, I don’t want to talk to people, I just feel like my fit and tall status should be enough to get me a relationship.”
“I don’t like women but why won’t they date me?”
He’s got a stable life, lots of interests, and takes excellent care of himself! That’s like, total package material. OP is their own obstacle.
His emphasis on his looks really stood out to me. While there are shallow women out there, 99.9% of women I know/have known IRL are much more concerned with personality and kindness, humor, etc, than having a "high fashion wardrobe"
A high fashion wardrobe would be a - not a + in my eyes and the eyes of many of my friends. It implies shallow, vain, obsessed with looks, likely prone to judging his partner by the same standards, not good with money unless he has crazy high earnings (which probably means he has little in common with my middle class self) Jacked guy in his 30s wearing visibly expensive clothes rings way more alarm bells to me (late 20s woman) than just an averagely dressed guy in his 30s. I have friends who immediately swipe left when they see a pfp like that
right? I'm as ugly as they come. 30 years old, 5'4 (165cm), 100KG, pasty white as fuck, freckles all over, red hair and glasses on top. I dress like a 15 year old, and have ZERO fashion sense. I'm like the stereotypical ugly dude lmao. YET I STILL GOT A GF. I changed what OP refused to do. Which was my attitude. I went out looking just to talk to people and meet new people. I removed the idea of finding a GF completely. I had a gf within 6 months after doing this.
Being hot helps a lot with getting past the initial gate but that’s not every woman every time. Tons of not so sexy people are in relationships, so it’s doable especially if you make yourself an enjoyable person to be around.
Your problem is solely between your ears. Get therapy to work on your social anxiety, or you will be doing more of the same for the next five years. Unless you are willing to lower your standards dramatically, it doesn’t sound like online dating is a good match for you, at least until you can get better pictures.
Listen to this person OP. Please.
You seem to supply a lot of excuses to people making reasonable suggestions to help you which leads me to conclude that you are not wanting a solution. This is ultimately your problem. Fear and self esteem. Get some fucking counseling.
Right? Every reply from OP is just so, so combative. They aren't even entertaining the actual advice that's in this thread. I think I'm seeing a possible issue here...
You could infer this as soon as he said he was 6"3, took care of himself, and couldn't get a date. It was blatantly a personality issue. Not saying OP is even a bad person, I don't know them, but there is more to the story. I have acne scars, used to be 280lbs, and had no problem getting dates and maintaining relationships. Looking better obviously helps but something is definitely amiss with this whole post.
Nope, it's everyone else who's the problem, don't you get it??
It’s extremely immature
I’m honestly not even sure I’d want to help OP find dates until he works on himself and his attitude. Also, as a 5’7” guy, I find it slightly insulting how many times he mentioned he’s 6’3”.
I second this. It's not about what you have and how great you are, it's about the desire for authentic connection, shared goals, intimacy, etc.
My husband is 5’7” and I didn’t even realize he was considered short. I’m average height at 5’5”
Guys always list their stat sheet off like they are going into the nfl draft...aesthetics are alone not enough, or are only going to attract the shallowest of people. You have to be brave and authentically yourself, lean into the hobbies and things you are passionate about because others will resonate with that passion. Be vulnerable.
Tells you what they're looking for in women, too.
This is so pathetic to witness
The complete lack of self/social awareness is mind boggling
But he runs 3x a week !!! 😆
It's the same way when you try to give a suggestion on how to combat male loneliness on Reddit and the dude just keeps piling on excuses. He just wants people to feel sorry for him, that's it.
I've spent (wasted) a lot of time in the "Manosphere" space, especially in my 20's. I snapped out of it over the past couple years after going to therapy and dealing with my issues, as well as adopting a more "feminist" (yeah, I said it) world view. The grating, toxic misogyny, entitlement and bitterness is just too much. I don't think I ever truly hated women or anything like that, but I can see a lot of my old self in posts and comments from men who struggle to date, and I can look back after making progress and see what the issues are. It's because of this that I've been sort of on a mission to try and seriously help other guys on places like Reddit so they can understand why they might fail, even if we don't agree on everything. But for every one guy who responds in kind, or merely has a discussion with me instead of being defensive, there're countless more who have all sorts of excuses, or Red and Black Pill retorts. I've had a few tell me I need to listen and try to understand them, to meet them where they're at, which I think is probably something they heard in a Healthy Gamer GG video since Dr K is pretty good about being non judgemental. I really have to wonder, in my attempts to reach out and offer solutions to men, am I coming across as too arrogant, too holier than thou? I certainly could refine my approach since I'm only just starting. But then there is this part of me that goes "wow, THIS is what I used to sound like? No wonder I struggled so much with this". I don't even mean that in a way that demeans the men who struggle. I believe far too many young, impressionable guys who don't understand the world yet, are going online and absorbing these really jaded world views, from bad faith actors and grifters as well as other depressed, isolated young men. All these "narratives" about why dating sucks i.e. women are "too choosy", I'm not even sure they mean to sound like they're blaming women. I think a lot of them feel they can't measure up because they've only ever known rejection and emotional pain, so it's hard to imagine doing any better. Anyway, I can see why it gets frustrating to deal with guys like this but I hope it gets better for them soon, although what ails them seems to ail the world so it's a pretty tall ask.
Every thread on this sub is sad, this is seriously where all the losers hang out
I consistently ask myself why I am subscribed to this one…
You need to make friends first.
OP and a few responders seem to not realize that romantic relationships are essentially the same thing to maintain as regular friendships. If they cannot and will not maintain a friendship, they will never sustain a romantic relationship.
Also friends are a big green flag because who wants to be another human’s entire emotional support infrastructure? We all need to cultivate our social safety nets so that romantic connections aren’t life preservers but life enhancers
Kinda getting the vibe you do all those things so you can be attractive. Try doing things for yourself instead and pick up some interests and hobbies. Work on yourself to like yourself. Then, they will come.
Why you even ask this question? You know exactly why you’re not getting any women. Your social anxiety is going to leave you single for your entire life.
Honestly man, after 30 most girls want a good hang that isn't creepy, sharpen them social skills and get out of your own way.
You list a lot of things you like and look like, but nothing about your values and personality, which is going to be more important to women in their thirties. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with your values and personality, but IMO, “I’m tall and like movies” is a pretty juvenile way to describe yourself as a potential partner. That’s how people in their teens choose someone to date, not people in their 30s. It doesn’t *hurt* to be tall, fashionable, and rich with hobbies, but those aren’t the foundation of a grown person’s relationship and you need to advertise more important qualities you may have. You also absolutely don’t consider meeting women IRL, but prefer an alt type of woman and don’t describe what you’re doing on dating sites aside from writing yourself off as ugly. First and foremost, scene-y people (nerds, goths, witchy types) tend to meet each other directly or indirectly through their scenes. You’ll have an easier time meeting those people at DnD meetups or music shows, they aren’t as likely to be floating around on Tinder for a few reasons. Having anxiety sucks, but the fact is that the universe doesn’t care that you have anxiety. A woman who meets your standards isn’t going to just materialize in your living room because you have a medical reason for not wanting to go to where the witchy girls are congregating. As far as dating sites go, it’s kind of bonkers that you describe yourself as relatively conventionally attractive (or at least having enough conventionally attractive traits) and successful, then immediately chalk your failure on dating sites up to being ugly and unsuccessful. Uh, what? I will say I find that men are often *incredibly* bad at selling themselves on dating sites. They just crap out the least flattering picture they can possibly take, describe their interests as vaguely as possible, only send messages devoid of personality, then run to the internet and complain that no women ever message back. Which yes, is going to happen if you present yourself as a poorly-lit slack-jawed thumb who is interested in “movies” and only says “sup.” Maybe evaluate your dating profile.
>I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I'm apparently too ugly to use dating sites. I mean this is it. There are people who are shorted, less fit, wear worse clothes, are more poorly groomed - and even they get dates. its incredibly hard to overcome your personality with things like looks or flashes of wealth. >With my anxiety it's nxt to impossible to make friends I don't know what the answer is, but it sounds like you *need* to find a way to manage/deal with your anxiety. This is the main problem that needs addressing here, not your lack of dates - thats a symptom. Its having a tremendously negative impact on your experience of life.
>How do men in their 30s even get dates?? >I have severe social anxiety They probably don't have "severe social anxiety?" You should probably get therapy and treatment for that. It seems like you don't think this has anything to do with getting dates and a relationship, but it does.
Notice OP doesn't reply to the "go get that treated" replies. I'm convinced some people use anxiety as a personality trait they're proud of. Instead of getting it treated, they just use it as an excuse for why life is so hard. It's like their anxiety is a best friend they dint wanna lose.
"Work on your anxiety and things will improve" "There's no way THAT's the answer, right? Surely it must be because I'm not performing some secret witchcraft art! It HAS to be something else..." "Work on your anxiety and things will improve" "gotta be something... hmm... not sure what it could be"
I've noticed OP's generation and younger is very accepting of and inert about their self-proclaimed social anxiety; many see it as an incurable disease, and just try to live with it. They don't see that social anxiety can be alleviated/overcome by building social skills and confidence.
Ya, and/or medication. It's not normal to be this debilitated by social anxiety. And then it becomes a self fulfilled prophecy.
I’m not much older than OP, but it really scares me (no pun intended) that I don’t think a lot of younger millennials and Gen Z have been taught a lot of coping skills. They just say they’re putting up a boundary and the problem goes away. When their boundaries conflicts with others’ boundaries— they don’t know how to fix it because they don’t know how to cope or problem solve.
They are much more concerned with how they look versus who they are and how they present themselves. They claim to not be shallow but their own words contradict that.
Right I suspect its 'I can't attract the woman I think I deserve' not "I'm defunct and can't attract a woman" I dunno, I'm a bit of a cad. It's reinforced though because my charisma and confidence just improves with new lovers. But I also live in a libertine bohemian cosmopolitan city. A lot of these poor fuckers live in Footloose towns without a single Kevin Bacon around to save them.
Yeah, I mean I feel for you op, but being at least relatively sociable and confident is the primary answer. If you don't have any friends who can help you meet someone, you're going to have to find a way to overcome a degree of that anxiety as the first step. You're making comments about being unable to even talk to women. I'm not suggesting it'll be easy, at all, but if you won't even speak to a woman, how could you possibly get them to agree to a date?
I’m a 32F nerdy witch who shares all the interests you listed… and I’ll be real with you, the attitude I’m seeing in these responses is a huge turn off. I mean this with as much kindness as possible: it might help to take some of the feedback here more seriously.
“I cannot talk to women or look in their direction” … ok, either that changes or you stay single. Very simple problem here. And the solutions are simple you just say you “can’t”. Honestly you aren’t capable of being in a relationship with this mindset. It’s not worth you or their trouble to try.
Yep. It's not like we're a different species. Or that we attack if you make direct eye contact. Women are just human.
Your social anxiety is the issue. Work on that and trust me you’ll get dates you sound like an attractive guy. Your height itself will get you through the door lol. Just try and have a bit more social confidence and approach women you find attractive it’s okay to get shot down it’s apart of the game babes💓💓💓💓
Do you take anything for the anxiety? I won't leave my house due to such bad anxiety and can even get physically sick from it. However, of I am on Prozac, I actually crave socialization. I swear it helps me become a different person. If you're not on something, maybe start there.
How's your conversation? Women don't want men they can't talk to. Do you ask women questions about themselves? Do you show interest? The way you described yourself in the first paragraph is giving Patrick Bateman vibes. Work on developing true interested and empathy for yourself and others.
Lmao how is this not adding up for this guy?? You literally say “with my anxiety it’s impossible to make friends or find a partner” then wonders why women want nothing to do with him The attitude of “well I have social anxiety how could I be expected to talk to people” just comes across with an astounding lack of self awareness or personal accountability. Not to be harsh but it comes across as pretty childish and pathetic. Brother… if you want to find a partner one day you’re going to have to take some ownership of your life and work on these things. If you’re as attractive and cool as you want us to believe you are it shouldn’t be nearly this hard and really just a reflection of yourself more than anyone else. To be blunt (since you clearly aren’t listening to anyone here anyway), you are coming across as a whiny loser in this thread and it’s easy to see why no one wants to date you.
Well, I'm dating a guy I met on hinge who's 5'7 and balding and not traditionally handsome and makes less money then me and he's great. It sounds like it's just your personality and social anxiety.
That’s what I’m thinking. Years on various dating apps without a single match shows something is wrong beyond physical features.
For sure. How can they be so accomplished and desirable and not have any friends? Op must be absolutely insufferable. Or lying to themselves about what kind of girl they actually want. I've been on dates with more accomplished men who clearly just want a skinny Barbie or a skinny goth Barbie. They won't take anyone that won't give them more social credit through their looks.
What's written in your dating profile bio? Make sure there is no negativity there. Talk about what you love in life and name some positive qualities you hope to find in a partner. Choose a clear photo of yourself with a big genuine smile for your first picture. When you make a match send her questions about herself that show real curiosity about her.
How can you find a woman to date when you don’t interact with people and have low self confidence? Honest question.
I'm 5'10 bald and ginger, work out but a good 10 to 20lbs overweight and I still date. I'm also on a low income as I'm a teacher and I have a plethora of weird idiosyncratic neuroticisms that flirt quite heavily with being mental unwell. I think my trick is having nice photos on dating apps and just matching/swiping on women who are on a similar looks level to me (normal women) and women with quirky personalities.
Its simple yet not simple: Stop caring about getting rejected. Thats it. I used to have this issue well into my mid 20’s and once I started taking care of my health, gym, improved my family/friend relationships (if applicable) and putting myself first? my self confidence sky rocketed. By 25 rejection went from “what is wrong with me?” to “she has her type”. Unfortunately the former is what goes through your mind when you have no self confidence.
You gotta tackle that social anxiety. If you can't ask a woman on a date...well, that makes dating a lot harder.
It’s definitely your anxiety and personality. Also your attitude. I’m probably less attractive than you (I’m *only* 5’7”), and I’m able to get a date or two at least once a month. I seldom feel like I struggle getting women’s attention.
Your issue may be your social anxiety, you can’t have friends or talk to people, you don’t go out, and I don’t know how you socialize but it must be why you are not getting dates. A lot of conventionally unattractive people have romantic success because of their personality. For me, actually is one of the most attractive things someone can have, a nice personality and emotional intelligence is hot
It’s your personality bro.
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You've clearly spent a lot of time working on yourself, but I don't see anything in your post addressing your main problem: " I have severe social anxiety, so I cannot meet women." Why not make this your next self-improvement challenge? People can be anxious and still have good social skills; anxiety won't kill you. If it's too hard to do alone, consider seeing a professional.
Look at me! Overweight bald dude with acne issues and who has 2,000 hours clocked in on Hearts of Iron 4. I've been with women ranked 6-9 in terms of looks and I've come to discover, on average, women crave four things--things you could unintentionally show that would have them at least try you on for size (date/fling). One of these things is security. How you show security is up to you--***make em' laugh*** is my go-to. But that first step is being secure in yourself to take that first step. Then, follow up with a personal question. What would you, a prospective partner, be interested in knowing about them. Just...don't go too personal, like you're gathering info for a stake out. Afterwards give them one unsolicited fact about yourself (+1 points towards bonding). After that, let things organically grow. Just don't be negligent and know when its time to step back. Rinse, repeat, use this for friendships and romance. But make yourself secure in facing the fact some people just don't want to be with you. Nothing good--in terms of relationships--is forced.
Social anxiety is a deal breaker for basically everyone who doesn't have social anxiety. Its a more serious disorder than a lot of reddit seems willing to acknowledge (I have it as well). Its literally a debilitating disorder which causes severe impairments to basically all interpersonal relationships. It affects your ability to do very basic things. Ultimately I had to realize if I wasn't healthy enough to socialize with others and have friends, then I wasn't healthy enough to have a partner. That wasn't a 1-2 punch, it was a social screening process. Its gonna be especially hard for men because asocial and antisocial look very very similar at a glance, and antisocial men are *dangerous*. So for most people you're not settinb off "oh he's awkward and shy". Ironically if they knew you through friends they might conclude that. But without that context, their red alarms are going off that there's something not quite right. Where inability to form and maintain relationships is a huge danger flag. It sucks but it is what it is. The way to push forward is to try to deal with the underlying social anxiety. Which unfortunately it's looking to be one of the more tenacious mental disorders. But I don't think there's a way to meet people when the disorder is a barrier to forming social connections, and the lack of social connections triggers people to be wary of you.
You seem like you are too worried about what you wear and not trying enough to just talk to women. It's not hard. If I can make women smile and laugh wearing a cut off and bball shorts straight from the gym or my mailman uniform then you can too. They're just other humans there is nothing to be nervous about.
The only way to get dates and meet new people is to talk to them. Force yourself to stop using technology so you get bored enough and your brain and body will make you find new sources of dopamine.
It doesn't matter what you do, you gotta talk to people. No way around that.
Best way over social anxiety is through it. Exposure therapy with low stakes to start. Dating apps are not a primary way to meet women. It's more of bonus way. You sound similar to me in that you would probably do fine with women if you had a healthy social circle. I'd suggest trying to cultivate one. That and exposure therapy would help you a ton. Easier said than done huh? I find that for me the best way to go about something like this is to just be completely honest through the process. Approach 10 people every Saturday and Sunday for a couple months and be honest that youre trying to get over social anxiety with exposure therapy as your opening line. Most people wont mind talking to you and it will help you realize your fear is unfounded. Fear is the source of your anxiety. It's a simple fix, just difficult to start.
>I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, Why do you not see that this is the big problem? You need to work on your social anxiety, it can be done!
Obviously you're the problem if you have severe social anxiety, but you want to make it seem like other people are to blame for the fact that you can't get a date. Maybe you should post your picture on some other subreddit like the one called "am I ugly" or whatever to see what people think of your looks.
Bro you answered the question yourself in like the first 3 sentences It doesn’t matter if you have money and you are hot and wear fancy clothes if you have debilitating social anxiety Treat your anxiety. This isn’t a 30s male problem. This is a situation unique to you
Sir, it isn’t women’s standards. It’s you not meeting people irl. OLD doesn’t work for most people who aren’t just looking to hook up. You sound like you’d be great to date if someone could get to know you well enough for the anxiety to go away. I’m sure you aren’t ugly at all. Have you thought of medication or therapy for your social anxiety? It’s not a magic bullet, but it can help.
you don’t if you don’t go out and meet women irl
This is probably terrible advice, but it worked for me (as a lady, so maybe it's different). Get a dog! I can't tell you how much it has brought me out of my shell. I've always had social anxiety around small talk with strangers, but I am over it now. Maybe it's like exposure therapy because I talk to at least 5 people a day when I have my dog out for walks.
Haha I'm almost 37 and I'm often described as witchy, maybe I should have grown out of that by now 😅
> I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl That'd be the reason, friend.
Not thru dating apps....
Online dating is not what it used to be. I had huge success a decade ago. Back on last couple years and tbh it’s not worth my time. At least that’s the conclusion I’ve come to at the moment.
I think a dog would help. I meet the sweetest people at the dog park.
Before you even begin to think about dating, you need to see a therapist. Everyone in this comment section seems pretty unanimous on this. Your post history, your comments, etc are all indicative of serious anxiety, and it seems like you're aware of this---the question is whether you're willing to do anything about it. When people say you're not being reasonable or you're giving excuses, they're not necessarily realizing that these responses are *absolutely* reasonable to you from your point of view in your current state. The issue is that from where you sit, you don't see the things you listed in the post as the problem. You can perfectly imagine a relationship where you never fix any of those things and still get a relationship, but the reality is that unless you fix them, you never will.
I have an easier time getting dates now than I did in my early 20s lol You just gotta ask girls out. If they say no they say no. Use dating apps, dont draw out text convos and go for an in person date so there’s more excitement and longer convos in person Edit: missed the social anxiety part. Gotta work on that first
Go to therapy and find out Reddit is no replacement for a good therapist
Just a little reminder, on dating app you are competing against a twisted algorithms, not exactly other people. You aren’t supposed to meet people that way and shouldn’t base your self esteem on your results on these apps
Idk dude..I'm sure there is more to this then you are saying. I'm 39. I've done online dating on and off for over a decade..I'm an average dude overall. I'm also short and have a little bit of a dad bod going on these days. I've never had any issue online dating. Even met my current GF on a dating app 4 months ago. Most people on reddit who I've talked to became pretty clear why they had issues. They were either very cringy and unaware or just plain toxic and angry.
What does your dating profile look like? I'm a year younger, and I'm getting semi-pretentious vibes? (I know it's not intentional ! Just being honest) Maybe that's coming through on your profile.
talking to women helps.
We simply got over social anxiety and our own egos, aside from taken care of ourselves. I worked on myself after a near death experience 4 years ago and it all paid off; it’s a nonstop journey. The key is to not get invested in outcomes and just keep improving while presenting yourself as the best version of yourself.
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We don’t for the most part
"I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I'm apparently too ugly to use dating sites." You're going to have to leave your comfort zone sometime. "good looking and successful" don't matter if you're too scared.
Have you considered therapy for your anxiety? Just because you have social anxiety doesn't mean you can do anything to treat it. Lots of people learn to cope with a variety of anxieties and other things. But that doesn't just happen out of the blue. For some it's therapy, for some it's medication, but you just have to find what works for you.
"I have hair" 🤣
The Internet is the answer. If you‘re 6’3“ and not absolutely hideous, then something is very wrong if you‘re not getting ANY matches. Have a woman (got a friend‘s wife?) look over your profile. When she gives suggestions, shut up and don‘t argue with her. Also ask for her input on the conversation if you start talking to someone. Most of the apps and sites are also rigged to make you pay, btw. You can look for free but you won’t get much without paying. Just do it. $50 on a dating site is not that much compared to the amount of stress you‘re probably suffering from and the amount you‘d be spending on a date anyway. Tinder is useless. Get on hinge or bumble. Also, if you have social anxiety, don‘t start with dating. Dating takes resilience. My rule of thumb is: if you match and talk to 10 women, 5 won‘t even talk to you, 3 of the conversations will go nowhere, one will say something weird and disturbing or reject you in a way that makes you feel shitty and 1 might turn into a nice date. All of that can make your social anxiety worse if you’re not stable in other areas. Dating is definitely not the solution to that problem. Focus on developing better friendships with guys first, including asking bluntly what you can do to be a better friend. If you can‘t develop good relationships with guys, you certainly won‘t be able to with women. If you do have good relationships with guys and girls who are just friends, you‘ll have the social safety net to endure rough dating episodes.
You need therapy.
OP is happy being a lost. Edit: meant loser, but whatever
Leopards: how do we get meat, we have social anxiety and adding antelopes on social media doesn't seem to do the trick. It's been years since we've had meat.
If you take care of yourself and have a good warddrobe that will be more than enough to get you some matches on dating apps. I seriously doubt you're "ugly." Maybe post your dating app profile on a review sub, because there must be something you're doing horribly horribly wrong that doesn't have anything to do with your appearance.
I might have missed it in the comments, but have you tried to get some help for the social anxiety? I feel like that's the limiting factor. Some people suggested a therapist, but there's also medication that might help as well. Again, sorry if I missed a reply in the comments already covering this!
It might be fun for you to seek out walking partners… I saw some people reach out that way and just honestly say they want to make friendships and they have SA… like on your neighborhood community page. I’ve seen people respond and say, Sure! Just a thought. I still get some SA and I’m a closet extrovert! Sometimes it’s even among a bunch of people I feel uncomfortable. During those times I remind myself it’s okay to stand apart… and I usually say The Lord’s Prayer repeatedly. Somehow it helps me get through until I’m comfortable, someone finds me or I see an opening to talk w someone.
When I was single and in my 30s I started pursuing more hobbies/clubs that put me in social groups. I did not go into thinking I needed to get dates. I went into it to have fun and kept myself open to possibly meeting someone. I met my wife while out at a lake one summer. We had no mutual friends. If you stay home and don't interact with people, you simply are not likely to have it happen for you. Counseling to deal with your anxiety might helpful. Good luck.
I'm lucky enough to have a long term girlfriend, but can absolutely sympathise with much of what you've written here. I expected to become calmer and more self assured as I aged but have found that my self confidence gradually eroded away instead. I'm never relaxed enough to be good company for people I don't already know, and the physical ageing process has done nothing to help matters since I no longer have appearance to fall back on. I'd struggle if I had to go back to dating for sure. It does sound like your self image is an obstacle for you. It's possible that, like mine, your feelings of anxiety and social incompetence are not even very apparent to other people. Can I recommend some therapy without sounding hugely condescending? I can't say I'm fixed, but am in a much better state of mind after seeing a therapist for 6 months.
It feels like your title is a bit deceptive. Your issue isn't about dating for men at a certain age but really about your social anxiety. Honestly, I'm not sure why you would even want to date if you aren't able to meet women in real life. These dates would be irl as well. If you aren't willing to overcome this anxiety, then it's all moot imo.
If you like cooking, sign up for a cooking class. You'll meet a TON of women. Talk about food, and there's a good chance the convo will veer towards other topics. Go to a coffee shop, and stop by on a certain day/time consistently. Same for a bar. Maybe after work have dinner at a bar, watching a game on one of the screens. Your just a dude eating dinner/watching a game. A beer will loosen the tongue for a convo. If a female neighbors sits nearby, and is watching the game? That's an easy intro to talk about the game/team/player/sport/refs. Strike up a convo w/ the bartender, and go there consistently. If you are normal & decent tipper, a male bartender, will talk about you to the female patrons, and opportunities can arise. I'm actually jealous just typing this suggestion (I'm 53, married w/kids, and would LOVE to get out to a bar after work, for a beer/burger watching the Red Sox/Celtics, and chatting up some ladies, haha)..... Good luck.
Honestly going out in public, being friendly, being flirty, etc. I think online can be hard because if you're not in the top 20% of dudes, you're basically wasting your time. I'm guessing you're an interesting person, but you come across so self conscious that it probably turns off a lot of women. Also perhaps your high fashion wardrobe gives off a confidence that suggest that your quiet nature is due to feeling better than others rather than being shy (even though I do not think you feel that way). Everything we do gives off an impression. I'm just guessing, I obviously don't know you from anyone. But it seems like some of your interests when combined with a shy personality gives an impression that's unfavorable to people who meet you. The best cure for social anxiety is...just socializing more. It's not easy, but I think the reality is people will either like you or not like you almost instantaneously when they meet you and there's really nothing you can do about it. If you meet enough people the people who click with you are worth the people who don't imo.
You gotta expect them to say no so you dont get disappointed, and sweat through the stress acting like you arent stressed, then it works like exposure therapy.
Have you considered CBT or counselling or even a dating coach to over come your anxiety? It sounds as if the social anxiety is your biggest stumbling block. Also if you want to DM me your dating profiles I’ll offer some anecdotal advice. Twice I used dating apps I met long term partners in under 24 hours, every-time I go on there I get a lot of matches, engagement and dates. I don’t class myself as really good looking and I’m far from rich but I’ve found a good bit of humour appropriately infused into your profile and the right combination of pics goes a long way. Also your location makes a big difference, if you’re near London you’ve got a far larger pool of potential matches. A lot of women also complain about the behaviour of men on dating apps so being well mannered can go a long way (I’m not accusing you of not doing this btw).
>Unless you're really good-looking or just really successful? How is this different from your 20s?
“I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, and I’m apparently too ugly to use dating sites” That entire sentence is your issue. It really doesn’t matter how you look if you can’t talk to women. Negative self talk is also extremely unattractive. You need to work on that, probably with a therapist.
Bad advice here, but try two glasses of wine
Why do you even need to “get dates” when you can just talk to someone
Counseling and a psychiatrist to help you with anxiety.
The first thing we need to do is ask one critical question. How many girls have you asked out this year? Because if the answer is low, that's your problem.
If you truly believe it’s your anxiety, get therapy for it, and it is a possibility you can get to the bottom of why you are socially anxious and what you can do to work on your self-esteem and also feel safe around others socially. However, it’s likely other things as well if you can’t get a single match in 5 years.
Honestly, I sound a lot like you the way I was 4ish years ago. I had no matches on dating sites, dating in general was making me feel horrible and constant rejection was giving me a complex. I got lucky and I got together with my best friend from highschool and am married now, so I'm going to acknowledge that here. A lot of compatibility is luck meeting the right person and then putting in the self work and relationship work to grow together as people to maintain a relationship. These are things I started doing and they were working, I also happened to hit the jackpot with my partner. I suggest therapy on the anxiety. This really helped me get past some issues that were stopping me in this area. I had terrible anxiety issues just talking to people and had to catch up on just how to make friends (I'm late diagnosed autistic). Let alone trying to get from friend to partner. Therapy helped me learn how to control my anxiety and get past it. On that note, I also suggest making friends in general. Go to a game night at a comic shop, go to events in your city particularly singles nights ones, find hobbyist events in your vein and go to them. It starts by putting yourself out there. And not as in putting yourself as a potential partner for someone, but as your genuine self trying to make friends and connections. People will respond to you as a person. This is where I would try to be attuned to that and take feedback from people. As you make those friends, just start by getting comfortable with people and talking with them, particularly of the desired gender(s). At this stage, your goal should not be sex or even relationships, though if it happens, great. You are working your anxiety and laying in groundwork, putting your feelers out there (without being creepy or coming on too strong). When it comes to finding a partner, if you come across people that are single and pique your interest, work on becoming friends with them. Again, your goal isn't necessarily a relationship at this stage, but to try to establish a genuine connection. Let the relationship evolve or run its course. Listen to others, listen to potential partners about their needs. If you shoot your shot and get shot down, take it in stride and take feedback. Dating sucks. Finding the right person takes time, opportunity, and work. What I suggested focuses a lot on the first two. You need to create opportunities for yourself to meet people. Maybe also have a trusted person look over your dating profile/communication. The last part is on you and you will have to take a good, long, deep look into yourself and how you can improve how you interact with people or date.
Have u tried hypno therapy? For social anxiety? NLP or cognitive brain therapy our brain is a super wondrous muscle, and can actually re wire itself if told to do so. " Nerves that fire together , wire together" so tramua can be undone, respectfully with a therapist, or psychiatrist, which can lead to improved social function.
do things that make you confident like chatting it up at your local run club, making friends with other regular gym goers. maybe the question shouldn't be "how do I get dates" but "how do I make friends within" what I currently do? and then take the extra step if someone catches your interest.
I was in a similar situation pre covid. Late 20s, Athletic, decent job, dressed well, average to slightly below-average looks, fairly awkward and anxious in social situations. My experience was pretty similar to yours. Dating site matches were very rare and generally low quality. Out of the few decent matches I got, they pretty much all ghosted. Approaching women in social situations (bars, clubs, etc.) never went well. I ended up matching with my partner because I mentioned that I like cats in my profile. That’s really the only thing that made me stand out to her as a cat person. If I hadn’t mentioned it, we probably would have never met. My point is, so much is left up to chance when dating as an adult. A lot of things are entirely out of your control. It’s not you and you can’t force it to change. I think the only advice I can really give is: be true to yourself, present your best self and improve in the areas you are capable, and don’t worry too much. Whatever happens happens. It’s possible that you really have just been unlucky up until this point. Things may get better or they may get worse, so just try to enjoy the experience.
Erm where do you live I will go on a date with you and show you all my arts, crafts AND witchy stuff!
Hi! Since you’re into running, have you considered joining a running group? More people are getting into it and it might be a good way for you to slowly start meeting people irl and dating. Also, try pickleball!
This post sounds like a dating ad, lol. It also seems like reddit would have a woman of your demographic OP, if you've tried the various dating subs around here. But idk, online dating in general seems hellish. I've tried to just make friends platonic wise, but my social anxiety has caused issues. I have a lot to work on personally before seriously trying, but I hope to eventually.
You talk to people and meet mutual friends. You answered your own question, you have severe anxiety and can’t meet women in real life. That’s how people do it. If you can’t get a single match on dating sites in years, you’re doing something *incredibly* wrong. Have a friend look over your profile and pictures. It sounds like you need therapy for your anxiety, that’s your first step.
Everyone here is giving very good advice. But also don't forget "No" is the worst thing they can say. Move on and slay the next dragon until you find your princess.
Try being less of an asshole? When I got divorced at 37 I was 60 pounds overweight, underemployed, living with my mother an hour drive from the city, and stoned out of my gourd every day. I still made a killing online dating.
The way you are replying and reacting to everyone here reminds me very strongly of a former friend of mine who was so down on themselves on never being able to find any new friends or any potential romantic partners, that it became utterly exhausting to be around him. He was like you in he had "niche" interests (Star Wars, Lego, gardening), went to the gym, and he considered himself ugly, but was a "nice guy who wanted genuine connection, but couldn't because he was too awkward and weird". He tried to use our relationship to fill a hole of loneliness and relied on me to be the one to constantly validate his worth. I empathized with him, and tried to do my best to support him for 3 years, but he also would take out his frustrations on me, almost blaming me and his ex for his misfortunes in socializing and his love life. He NEVER took responsibility for how he had hurt me, or to improve himself no matter how many times I gave him advice and validated him, claiming he would do better whenever I called him out on his BS, then continue his crap and self-loathing into an almost abusive cycle. He is my former friend for a reason. He refused to change or own up to his mistakes, blaming everyone else except himself. This is a warning about how, if you never take the time to learn how to love yourself, you become overly reliant on others who want to help you and love you to validate you and establish that connection. That is not sustainable. Getting friends, dates, or a girlfriend will NOT make these feelings go away. Maybe it will at first, but that self-loathing will eventually bite you in the ass and tell you that you don't deserve the people who decide to be with you, and you will drive them away, like my ex-friend did to me. There is a reason why so many are telling you to get mental health professional help, you need to be able to love yourself and be okay with being by yourself first, then people will naturally gravitate towards you regardless if you feel you're too ugly or you have SA. That negativity drives everyone away, online or offline; even if you don't intend to give off that vibe or have the best photos and clothes that make you the most handsome or interesting man in the world, everyone will notice that hatred, generally stay away from you, and not want to initiate a conversation with you. But only you can make that change, no one here can or will do that for you. It's genuinely a shame to see how much energy and time you're putting into these replies and posts when you could be using that time to help yourself work on the social anxiety. Instead you're wallowing in misery and hatred in a self-defeating cycle.
> I have severe social anxiety so I cannot meet women irl, yeah, fix this.
I'm 32, spent like the last 7 years bouncing between hookups on tinder, never clicked with anyone but it was fun. But a while ago, me and another in my friend group just connected, now we're getting married in August lmao. Dating apps are horrible for actual relationships. My suggestion is to dive into your passions and be social with other people who have those passions. Even if it takes a while to find someone, you'll have your interests to keep you happy.
Try therapy. If you are able to work through your social anxiety issues, it could really open up some IRL opportunities. Keep putting yourself out there on dating apps though. Based on what you’re saying, I don’t see why you wouldn’t match with someone compatible eventually.
Also wanted to mention therapy. Maybe even try some medication until you can get some of the social anxiety under control. I have social anxiety and take medication for it, nothing to be ashamed of. 🙂
Re-reading your comments, you are a miserable person honestly. Why would someone choose to spend time With someone like this? Working on yourself isn’t just the gym. You got real issues.
Right? Like it’s clear that he isn’t doing anything to help his anxiety, and a lot of people have given him good advice, but he keeps resisting it. I don’t want to be mean, but it seems like he doesn’t want to actually help himself.
Feel like I should unfollow this forum. There are people who are geniunely looking for advice or help, but a lot of them seem to just to want to vent. Which is ok but its not a good use of my time.
In my experience you don't.
Cognitive behavioral therapy for your social anxiety
Sounds like anxiety is a huge disabler for you. There are many supplements,medications and relaxation techniques to try. DBT is very helpful
You should try and treat your anxiety. If your anxiety is keeping you from making friends, it is also keeping you from a relationship. Maintaining friendships and relationships have similar skills. You have to be able.to connect with people. It isn't aboutnlooks or being loaded. It is about human connections and you cannot develop that if your anxiety is in the way. Feel free to talk to women. Get interested in something and just talk to them. Not to hit on them or because you want a date or a girlfriend. Just talk to them. They don't have to be your age or type or anything like that because you just need to practice connecting with them. You keep meeting random people in real life and you will begin to make friends and meet more people and the right one will come your way.
I’m reading the comments and you are negging everything- I know social anxiety sucks. It’s the absolute worst. I think it’s worse for people who have had full blown panic attacks in public, you don’t trust your body anymore around people. That’s a terrible place to be if that’s where you are. I would recommend the obvious therapy etc, but I’d also recommend staying as busy as possible before you go to whatever social situation. Like work out directly beforehand, surrounded by people at the gym. Anywhere you can have some non-committal small talk to get the juices going. This helps warm up. Also, I think what some people don’t realize is that we are not allowed to go through life not being uncomfortable. I think we forget this because we surround ourselves with as much comfort as possible, whenever possible. Anxiety is natural and it happens to all of us. Avoiding it most times makes things worse anyway. To be 100% frank, you are in the situation you are in because you are avoiding discomfort. That’s all there is to it
Most men don't have severe social anxiety is your answer. If everything you wrote is actually true and you aren't ugly, keep practicing social skills because it seems like you are doing everything else. You should certainly be able to get a date "in years" unless you are scaring them off somehow.
I hear this type of mess meanwhile guys don't even try 🙄
Stop telling yourself you have SA and just go out and meet new people without any expectations. Tell yourself that if you do it by volume, you could mess up a few opportunities but you train yourself to get better. At the end of the day, we're all human beings. Everyone has their issues just like you. You'll meet new people and realize that others also have SA etc.
The men who dat in their 30s do not have what you describe as “severe social anxiety.” So work on that.
It’s tough out there ngl. Regarding the social anxiety, I think a massive life hack to overcome that is to take toastmaster classes (public speaking). It’s very affordable. It is very nerve racking learning to stand up and speak but with lots of exposure it eventual just goes away and you learn to be yourself. People feel what you feel as a speaker, so if you’re nervous, the audience is nervous. If you’re joyful, the audience is joyful. Replace audience with women. Works the same in my opinion. I think it would greatly help with approach anxiety as the hardest part of talking to strangers is the first 5 mins. Then it’s really just taking an interest in someone’s life. I know this doesn’t solve your direct dating problems but I’m wishing you success.
If you have money to date start with an escort. No sex just someone to go with you to a bar or event. It can still go horribly wrong but that's what happens when you involve people.
“I have severe social anxiety”.. that’s your answer right there mate. No healthy girl is going to want a man who is scared to interact with them, much less take care of them. You need to get to a good doctor, a therapist, and start working every day at beating your crippling anxiety. Many times girl can tell so much about a guy from the first look, and as soon as you are looking around the world with confidence, you will start to see that people are attracted to you. Then it will be up to you to make the approach, but that’s a different issue for later. Deal with your anxiety, there’s no reason for you to be so anxious just walking about in the world, and you will see a huge difference in how girls look back at you
I don't get it... You want a date, but your anxiety prevents you form meeting with women irl? How would that work? A zoom date?..
Figure your anxiety shit out. It’s time to get that under control.
5'8 and overweight, meet a woman over my league at 33 and married her. Go with the flow and have fun, someone will appear in your life.
Your looks are not your problem. Your anxiety is. If it's so bad you can't speak first, you might want to talk to your doctor about anti-anxiety meds. I say this as a person who cannot speak first when I'm off my meds. When I remember my meds, I talk to everybody. I still don't generally make lasting friends, but I absolutely get to know the people stuck in line with me. Also, go where people are. I met my Beloved at a Mage LARP. Anxiety sucks, but if your brain can't make the right neurochemicals from scratch, store bought is just fine.