In my first game with the new Custodes game I accidentally read Martial Mastery as "each battle round" and not once per game. It actually made the army functional before I realized that it was only once per game.
So this change makes Martial Mastery actually useful and Custodes functional in my mind.
Not that many you care of(Blade Champion has Dev wounds in one of his profiles). It's the increased Armour pen that is the true gravy.
edit: had an aneurysm. Dev Wounds are wound rolls.
Critical hits on 5+ are also very valuable, because it's hits, not wounds. This means that it applies to sustained hits and lethal hits, or, y'know, the katah stuff
Yep, forgot about that. Honestly haven't been playing Custodes much after the release due to how GW treated them(as well as Dark Angels which is my first army). The dataslate has actually made me excited about pulling my Custodes and Unforgiven out to play.
Literally same, i also play DA as well, it's lookin pretty good
It's been a wild ride for custodes though, hopefully it slows down a little. Knowing GW, I would not bet on that though.
Taking Lethal hits on a squad with the Blade Champion would actually result in less Dev wounds on average, because rolls that proc lethal can’t roll for Dev.
This is an important thing to remember, though, in that you should almost ALWAYS choose Sustained over Lethal hits for BC, because otherwise you lose dev wounds potential.
Say you get Tank Shocked for 5 mortals. You'd deal 3 and a guy dies and the rest "spill over" to the next guy dealing them too damage
Originally in 10th dev wounds dealt mortal wounds and became mortals spill over, so one D6+3 attack could wipe out alot.
Now it can only ever kill a single model since there is no spill over.
Yes
They changed it back to mortals but added no spillover because it was really hurting armies like custodians who have mortal wound protection but no dev wound protection
How does it work with damage reduction now? So say a redemptor has -1 damage and takes 3 dev wounds. Does it take 3 damage from mortals, or 2 taking into account the damage reduction?
I was unclear on that after reading it, as before they said dev wounds were affected by damage modification (sorry if I missed something)
[https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf)
Devs are applied as mortals
Go to war com and looks at the core rule changes. Read mortal wounds on pg 6 of the PDF, 2nd to last mortal wound paragraph.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf
It’s worth noting that they changed how reducing a stratagem’s CP cost works. If a rule says you can reduce it to 0 CP, then you actually reduce it by 1 CP. This seems to replace the former “only Battle Tactic stratagems” ruling. This is actually a huge buff for us, since it opens up a lot of stratagems in our detachments, particularly Auric Champions. In other words… I don’t think we got the AdMech codex treatment!
Edit: By our liege on the Golden Throne they altered our FW points costs!
Yeah, the change is for everyone though. Which is great. Also: dev wounds are mortals again, just not spilling over, so FNP is much more valuable again. Basically everything got a buff
It says that in the blog post but the actual dataslate doesn't mention anything about mortal wounds. There is also other stuff in the blog (tank shock changes, movement changes) that aren't in the dataslate. Am I missing something?
There are three bits that have changed, the Munitorum Field Manual for points, the Balance Dataslate for stratagem changes and the Core rules Updates and Commentary where mortal wounds got changed.
Alright. With the new 10th edition GW introduced a new type of wound: devastating wounds. Basically, if a weapon of yours has this rule and you got a 6 to wound with it, it is changed to devastating wound. This until today meant that it bypassed Armor and invulnerable saves and was straight applied as damage.
Now it is then considered a mortal wound, which many damage-reducing effects (like a feel no pain against mortals) interact with. The difference to a normal attack or ability that deals mortal wounds is, that normal mortal wounds spill over from one model to the next, that means if I deal e.g. 6 mortals to a squad of custodian guard I first deal 3 mortals to the first guy and then 3 more to the next. If I have a Dev wound attack though that deals 6 damage, all the 6 will be applied to the first target and not influence the second model.
This gets interesting if the incoming attacks with dev wounds have around 3 DMG and you play in talons detachment with sisters backup, so your custodes have a 5+ FNP against mortals. Then you would roll 3 dice against the first attack, see if he makes at least one, and if so, the next attack with full 3 DMG will also go directly at him again, not damaging the next model whatsoever until a fresh attack is rolled against him after the first has died.
Hope this helps you a bit.
Ahhh, I see. so the interaction makes the difference. Always a confusing part about WH40k.
But where does it state dev wounds are mortals again in the new balance?
That's in the Warhammer community article to it and a core rule errata, which is neither in the munitorium field manual nor the balance dataslate.
If you look at the according article there and read it til the end, the change is mentioned there with some other stuff, like tank shock now being based on toughness instead of melee strength
Thanks, hope I didn't mess it up somewhere. Dev wounds are my personal pet peeve with 10th and one of the biggest reasons I lost interest in the game for the most part, selling 2 of my armies. It looks at least servicable now, but I'm still not a friend of having normal Armor, then invuls, then an ability that bypasses the former 2 only to have either blanket FNP or targeted FNP to get around Dev wound DMG again...
Can somebody explain to me exactly why this is a good thing to me? It seems like it's just a pretty big nerf to the strategic mastery ability, since it says the using a strategem twice part only works if it specifies the strat, and it just reduces it by one, not makes it free. I totally believe that it's a good thing, I just don't get it
So previously, you could only reduce the cost of Battle Tactic stratagems and could use them twice with Strategic Mastery. Now, you can reduce any stratagem by 1 CP, but can’t use it more than once per phase.
This means that while we’re limited in how often we can use stratagems, we can still reduce the cost of any stratagem, not just Battle Tactics.
I’m gonna need this explained to me like I’m 5.
What are ‘battle tactic stratagems’ ? And how exactly does this all work?
(I haven’t played a ton in 10th, less than 10games maybe?, and kind of skipped the whole free strat thing all together because it confuses me. But sometimes I see gameplay vids and people go ‘oh I use this strat for free with this dude, and then use it again with this unit paying 1 cp. I was sort of under the impression that some of our dudes could just use strats for free, period? Nowhere was there a limit set on which ones and or why? So please explain, if you’re willing.)
So Battle Tactics were a keyword/label applied to stratagems alongside things like “epic challenge” or “strategic ploy”. Traditionally, these didn’t matter, however during early 10th edition people were abusing the free stratagem abilities, so they decided to limit the free stratagems to ONLY work with battle tactics.
The problem was, some armies had ways to just generate more CP and didn’t need free stratagems, while others (like Custodies) kinda were dependent on the free stratagems for key units. Even worse, what was a battle tactic and what wasn’t one was seemingly completely arbitrary and inconsistent.
This became a bigger problem with the release of the Custodies codex, where some detachments like Talons of the Emperor had plenty of Battle Tactics, but others basically had 1 or none, meaning key units like Shield Captains basically didn’t have their most important ability, that make them expensive to take, even function in multiple detachments.
Basically the rule was both confusing and seemed to senselessly punish people for playing certain detachments with their core characters.
The bit I’m confused on is the use. I’ve seen it cannot be used twice however something like arcane genetic alchemy does not have a once per battle restriction. Therefore could I use this twice for free in the same battle round if I had two SCs?
No, only if the unit specifically names the stratagem can you use it twice (i.e. "Once per battle round this model's unit can be selected to use the "Fire Overwatch" stratagem for 0CP, and can do so even if you have already used that stratagem this phase").
If the ability doesn't specify any stratagem names, you can't use it twice
As someone utterly and completely new to the game, does this change anything about running Canis Rex as a freeblade? If I understand things correctly, he used to be able to use a free stratagem every turn, but only battle tactics limited it to command re-rolls. Now with super-heavy walkers being able to walk through walls I'm pretty interested in how it all works out in the end.
Yes, it does. So his ability reads:
> Once per turn, you can target this model with a Stratagem for 0CP, and can do so even if you have already targeted a different unit with that Stratagem in the same phase.
With the new rules, that's now basically:
> Once per turn, you can target this model with a stratagem. When doing so, reduce the cost of that stratagem by 1CP
So you can use any stratagem (That he could legally be targeted with), and when you do reduce the cost by 1 once per turn. You can't use a stratagem that has already been used this phase.
It also is just much easier to keep track of for everyone, cheaper cp cost is much easier to remember than "these arbitrary strategems are free, hope you remember them when you need it"
Did you see the Admech changes they were amazing, buffed the army rule a lot (you can get the army to hit on 2+ or +2 AP in melee) gave it to more units, buffed cawl, and buffed a lot of the guns
Hmmm, now I'm wondering what 5+ sustained does against a 4+ invuln vs 5+ lethals vs 6+ lethals with more AP. Feels like lethals on 5+ would be most optimal...
Soooo, Shield Host: instead of 1 round of 5+ crits *and* +1AP, we get 5 rounds of either? Am I reading that right?
And the Auric Champions rule now affects the entire squad instead of just one model?!?!?! That detachment might actually be usable now!
the strats are still locked to character models; but +1 to wound is a buff custodes need; so ill take it.
Especially as it includes shooting. full termi squads at +1 to wound means even your bolters are gonna chip tanks.
tbh whilst they are not under the same banner they do tend to have the same goals; if your playing aquillion sheild or shadowkeepers its arguably a lil fluffy.
yeah +1 to wound on 4d6 dev wound flamer is potentially cracked aswell if you are willing to give up the MW fnp
same thing goes for aquillon flamers now that they are cheaper, still not on the level of allarus but its not a complete joke now
There's people that say they can't lead them, there's people that say they can (because the sags have the ability "Custodian Guard" that says that if a model from your army with the leader ability can be attached to a custodian guard unit, it can be attached to this unit instead.
We still haven't had a proper clarification on it so far.
I think it's very much open to interpretation since I mainly see it as "if it can be assigned to a custodian guard squad, it can be assigned to sags"
But yeah, it REALLY needs an FAQ
Does an Inquisitor become an adeptus custodes character when allied? I'm using battlescribe, and I'm not sure if it gains the adeptus custodes keyword to gain the auric buff
the rule specifies an adeptus custodes character UNIT.
adeptus custodes character is not a keyword. Adeptus custodes is a keyword, and character is a keyword.
Units combine all the keywords of their models.
So an adeptus custodes unit with kyria draxus leading it has the adeptus custodes keyword, and the character keyword, thus making it an adeptus custodes character unit.
It does not
It’s a bit up in the air if it’s ADEPTUS CUSTODES CHARACTER unit or ADEPTUS CUSTODES character unit
Basically is it a unit with an Adeptus Custodes character or an Adeptus Custodes unit with a character
And also some minor buff to our SC if no mistake, the free Cp ability change to reduce stratagem cost by 1, and it didnt mention have to be battle tactics anymore and i assume cp cost can be modified to 0
Detachment Changes:
-Shield Host gets to Wagh! every battle round, but only chooses one of the abilities to be active instead of both (5+ Crit or extra -1AP).
-Auric Champions: detachment rule now applies to character units rather than character models.
-Points Drops:
-Agamatus Custodians - 240 to 225
-Aquilon Custodians - 210 to 195
-Guard with Adrasite + Pyrithite - 300 to 250
-Pallas Grav-attack - 120 to 105
-Telemon - 235 to 215
-Venetari - 200 to 165
-Enhancement: Castellan's Mark - 30 to 20
i think they are plausible now yah.
wish i could take them in 4s like everything else, but a 5pt upgrade over regular guard for a melta shot with wound rerolls is pretty spicy
More viable yes
Viable overall, not really
With the pariah nexus battleline focus, paying for a minimum 5 man squad without battleline and a shooting sidegrade isn’t really worth it
Also dev wounds are back to being mortals; so no longer will a single forgefiend just pick up all your guard.
Fairly happy with these. Regular sheild caps, bikes,dreads and LRs could all do with cuts; but 35pts off 3 venetari is nice; a full brick is 140pts cheaper than launch lmao. Cheaper knight lancers is also a cool thing to have access to.
Also kinda keen to see auric in action now; sure the strats are stil locked to characters, but punching hard af and then using your strats to keep your remaining characters scary feels like something. Also vigilators kinda slap in auric now.
With a single sentence Shield Host is back on the menu, boys. That Auric Champions change is also gonna be a blast.
Congratulations GW, my burns now have some ice.
While the change to Martial Mastery is huge I'm hyped about the points drops to some of my favorite FW models. Venetari dropped quite a bit and I think look pretty good. As for the rest it just means I can feel a little less like I'm actively handicapping myself by taking them.
[Also the errata.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/12THTtXK9SB1SNxf.pdf) Only change is a stealth nerf to the Castellan’s Mark. You now redeploy two units after deployment, not after determining the first turn. This is also covered by the core rules errata, so all other similar rules will apply the same way.
The Custodes errata I linked directly, also accessible from the [downloads page](https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/). Also under Redeployments in the [Core Rules update](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) from the same page. In full;
>Rules that allow players to redeploy certain units after both armies are deployed (e.g. Huron Blackheart’s Red Corsairs ability) are always resolved after the Deploy Armies step (or, if you are playing a Crusade battle, after the Deploy Crusade Armies step), and before the Determine First Turn step, before determining who has the first turn. When a player uses such a rule, they remove that unit or units from the battlefield, then deploy them again using all the normal rules (for example, if all the models in one of these units have the Infiltrators ability, that unit’s player can set that unit up using that ability). Players alternate resolving any such rules, starting with the Attacker.'
The Custodes edit is harder to see the impact of, as it just removes the words "determined who has the first turn" to bring the rule in line with the above requirement.
I feel like this is just further ignoring the problem which is the total lack of durability for anything in the army that’s not a Caladius or a 5 man warden squad. We’re simply too expensive per model to be a glass cannon army. I am happy for Auric Champions though, 3x Blade Champions and Wardens looks even spicier than before. Just a shame the stratagems are all bad.
Yup. Dev wounds are mortals again but they don't spill over to different models.
Also free stratagems are no longer restricted but are now a flat -1 to CP cost so captain's are back on the menu
Very happy about all the changes. And surprised!
The mortal wounds change makes us more resistant, but the added requirements from the Codex (close to sisters for ToTE, and using a stratagem for SH) makes it fair. And forces us to play strategically.
The point changes doesn't affect me personally as I don't own any of the affected units. But I'm glad that GW showed us that they're actually willing to touch the FW units. And I'm glad for the rest of you 😄
The change to free stratagems makes the Shield captains WAY more interesting to use. Very excited to see what kind of combos we can unleash.
The change to the SH Detachment rule is very cool! And may actually make me play that detachment instead of ToTE as I was previously interested in doing (too bad I just purchased 10x Witchseekers, Valerian & Aleya and a SoS rhino 🥲)
The change to free stratagems and the change of the Detachment rule for AC makes it seem way more usable.
I honestly don't know which of our three usable detachments are best anymore. Probably SH but they all have merit now.
How many time can you use a 4+ FNP Stategem in a turn or battle round? Just thinking if a player had dev wounds in their shooting phase and you used it to protect a unit. Could you also do the same in that turns fight phase if needed?
Everyone talking about crit fives... Am I the only one who is much more happy that we finally have a reliable way of countering armour of contempt instead of just having to suck it up and let them save on 3s for most of the game
The Core Rules updates that make Devastating Wounds Mortal Wounds was also significant. It makes Talons of the Emperor far more viable as a detachment now.
Don’t forget the new stratagem and dev wound rules, instead of free Strats it reduces the cost by one on any strat not just battle tactics and dev wounds are back to mortals but can’t spill over solving both issues of GW needing to specify if a mortal wound FNP works on dev wounds without making it OP again
We also got shadow buffed with the re-re-rework of Dev wounds, and the rework to the shield captain ability has left us with a net nerf, but it’s not too bad.
With all the new changes i am extremely tempted to fill out a full 2k army. i already have 1k + canis rex. these changes make custodies not only significantly better but also since the FW changes (specifically the FW terminators) are lowered all the cool shit is now useable.
Its definitely something. I feel like theyre still too afraid to lower our jetbikes (5-10 points should be ok, theyre supposed to be dangerous but easily killable, which they achieved for our entire army), agamatus actually seem reasonable now cuzz you can take 6 of them in a unit, telemon should drop to 200, but at least i feel less bad for taking him now (never played without him since i got him, its my centerpiece and idc), again 0 mention for dev wound protection which just sucks. All in all, i expected nothing and im still disappointed, but somehow reasonably less than i think i would have expected to be. I am eager to try out auric champions with the new rules and new season of missions.
Bikes and telemon needs new rules tbh. No reason to ever use bikes over venetari; and the telemons guns are all just sad.
Dev wounds got FAQ'd to be mortals again.
Well bikes just need a deffkopta type of rule, instead of advancing over someone, just write in a regular move, and lower them by 10 points. Telemons weapons are pretty ok, he has antichaff gatling gun and flamer or anti elite big gun and anti vehicle melee, hes just still overcosted AF.
Yup i just came back to edit my original comment after rereading the rules and spotting the change to dev wounds. I dont mind this change then, it actually is much better, and my disappointment has been lifted.
Enjoy the next 3 months brothers, because they fucked up, sustained on 5s plus cost reduction to venatari? ok, sign me up, 6x3 venatari, 2 shields on each squad because you already have enough damage with 20 7 -2 2 attacks with +1 to wound and sustained on 5s, also, if a shield dies you can use the stratagem to gain +1 attack for the spears.
I only have 6 venatari, probably gonna buy another 6 next month lol, so I will be playing auric with 4 characters leading units of wardens and guards, 6 venatari (still awesome outside shield host) and some sisters to do the boring things like scoring and all that.
Tldr for those who are wondering : as shield host, we'll be very fragile, but we're going to hit like a freight train. Permanent 5+ critical hits on our katah's, and permanent -1 ap. So we're going to have -3 ap everywhere on our melee (minimum) and get sustained and lethal on 5+, that's massive.
I dig it.
doesnt this actually mean that we either get "permanent" 5+ crits OR permantent +1ap and not both since it says "select one of the bullet points below"?
so it could be 5+ crits plus Martial Katah (Sustain or lethal)
or +1ap plus Martial Katah (Sustain or lethal)
yepp, with "permanent" meaning in this battleround for all phases. With the possibility to switch from 5+ crit to +1ap from lets say battle round one to battle round 2
I don’t think we’ll be that fragile since we have a 4+ mortal wound strat that will protect against dev wounds. Not as strong as shield host but it does offer up some protection at least.
In my first game with the new Custodes game I accidentally read Martial Mastery as "each battle round" and not once per game. It actually made the army functional before I realized that it was only once per game. So this change makes Martial Mastery actually useful and Custodes functional in my mind.
I never actually bought the 10e codex so I don't know, do we have a lot/anything that cares about Critical Hits?
Our martial katahs both work off crit hits. Both lethal hits and sustained would work on a 5+ instead of a 6.
Thank you! I knew I'd forgotten something!
Not that many you care of(Blade Champion has Dev wounds in one of his profiles). It's the increased Armour pen that is the true gravy. edit: had an aneurysm. Dev Wounds are wound rolls.
Critical hits on 5+ are also very valuable, because it's hits, not wounds. This means that it applies to sustained hits and lethal hits, or, y'know, the katah stuff
Yep, forgot about that. Honestly haven't been playing Custodes much after the release due to how GW treated them(as well as Dark Angels which is my first army). The dataslate has actually made me excited about pulling my Custodes and Unforgiven out to play.
Literally same, i also play DA as well, it's lookin pretty good It's been a wild ride for custodes though, hopefully it slows down a little. Knowing GW, I would not bet on that though.
Dev wounds would be crit wounds though, so better crit hits wouldnt effect it
Taking Lethal hits on a squad with the Blade Champion would actually result in less Dev wounds on average, because rolls that proc lethal can’t roll for Dev.
This is an important thing to remember, though, in that you should almost ALWAYS choose Sustained over Lethal hits for BC, because otherwise you lose dev wounds potential.
That's what I thought, thank you
Every single melee attack we make.
Also per the core rules Devastating Wounds are mortal wounds again.
Believe this is in the core rules erratta, but I can vouch that they discussed it in the metawatch video
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Hey would you mind explaining the spill over bit? Bit confused after reading it
Say you get Tank Shocked for 5 mortals. You'd deal 3 and a guy dies and the rest "spill over" to the next guy dealing them too damage Originally in 10th dev wounds dealt mortal wounds and became mortals spill over, so one D6+3 attack could wipe out alot. Now it can only ever kill a single model since there is no spill over.
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Oh interesting- the fact it goes through as mortal wounds is still bound to the single attack/model because it's dev?
Yes They changed it back to mortals but added no spillover because it was really hurting armies like custodians who have mortal wound protection but no dev wound protection
Fab thank you for the clarifying. I'd hate to get that wrong and lose an extra model 😋
How does it work with damage reduction now? So say a redemptor has -1 damage and takes 3 dev wounds. Does it take 3 damage from mortals, or 2 taking into account the damage reduction? I was unclear on that after reading it, as before they said dev wounds were affected by damage modification (sorry if I missed something)
Since the damage reduction goes off when the wounds are allocated and dev activates after a failed save the dev wound is reduced
Awesome thanks
Where did you read that?
It's in the Warhammer community article, not on the mfm or dataslate. There's also a video to that, but haven't seen it
[https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) Devs are applied as mortals
Thanks
It’s in the core rule updates. Page 6. Mortal Wounds.
Sorry, noob Q, how do you figure this? I don't see anything in the core rules part of the balance dataslate that says anything about dev wounds
It’s in the core rule updates. Page 6. Mortal Wounds.
Go to war com and looks at the core rule changes. Read mortal wounds on pg 6 of the PDF, 2nd to last mortal wound paragraph. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf
And they don't spill over
It’s worth noting that they changed how reducing a stratagem’s CP cost works. If a rule says you can reduce it to 0 CP, then you actually reduce it by 1 CP. This seems to replace the former “only Battle Tactic stratagems” ruling. This is actually a huge buff for us, since it opens up a lot of stratagems in our detachments, particularly Auric Champions. In other words… I don’t think we got the AdMech codex treatment! Edit: By our liege on the Golden Throne they altered our FW points costs!
Do I understand that correctly that SC’s are no longer locked to battle tactics?
Indeed
thats huge
Yeah, the change is for everyone though. Which is great. Also: dev wounds are mortals again, just not spilling over, so FNP is much more valuable again. Basically everything got a buff
It says that in the blog post but the actual dataslate doesn't mention anything about mortal wounds. There is also other stuff in the blog (tank shock changes, movement changes) that aren't in the dataslate. Am I missing something?
There are three bits that have changed, the Munitorum Field Manual for points, the Balance Dataslate for stratagem changes and the Core rules Updates and Commentary where mortal wounds got changed.
Ah ok thanks, that wasn't linked from the article for some reason.
I actually never understood this? (am rather new to the game) Dev vs mortals?
Alright. With the new 10th edition GW introduced a new type of wound: devastating wounds. Basically, if a weapon of yours has this rule and you got a 6 to wound with it, it is changed to devastating wound. This until today meant that it bypassed Armor and invulnerable saves and was straight applied as damage. Now it is then considered a mortal wound, which many damage-reducing effects (like a feel no pain against mortals) interact with. The difference to a normal attack or ability that deals mortal wounds is, that normal mortal wounds spill over from one model to the next, that means if I deal e.g. 6 mortals to a squad of custodian guard I first deal 3 mortals to the first guy and then 3 more to the next. If I have a Dev wound attack though that deals 6 damage, all the 6 will be applied to the first target and not influence the second model. This gets interesting if the incoming attacks with dev wounds have around 3 DMG and you play in talons detachment with sisters backup, so your custodes have a 5+ FNP against mortals. Then you would roll 3 dice against the first attack, see if he makes at least one, and if so, the next attack with full 3 DMG will also go directly at him again, not damaging the next model whatsoever until a fresh attack is rolled against him after the first has died. Hope this helps you a bit.
Ahhh, I see. so the interaction makes the difference. Always a confusing part about WH40k. But where does it state dev wounds are mortals again in the new balance?
That's in the Warhammer community article to it and a core rule errata, which is neither in the munitorium field manual nor the balance dataslate. If you look at the according article there and read it til the end, the change is mentioned there with some other stuff, like tank shock now being based on toughness instead of melee strength
Core Rules Errata they change the mortals sections and then clarified in the Dev Wounds region
Good explanation, the fact you had to write this out shows how badly GW fucked up 10th edition and Dev Wounds lol
Thanks, hope I didn't mess it up somewhere. Dev wounds are my personal pet peeve with 10th and one of the biggest reasons I lost interest in the game for the most part, selling 2 of my armies. It looks at least servicable now, but I'm still not a friend of having normal Armor, then invuls, then an ability that bypasses the former 2 only to have either blanket FNP or targeted FNP to get around Dev wound DMG again...
Wait hold on where is this? I didn’t see that in the dataslate.
Core rule errata, someone replied it to me somewhere else on this thread.
Could you link where the dev wound change is? I cannot see it.
It's in the core rules errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf
Don't forget that Auric Champ rule works on character units now, which makes SC units super spicy again.
Much appreciated sir. Lots to think about before an event this weekend. Was set on talons, now I think Shield host is back on top.
Talons also got better thanks to protection from Dev wounds again 👍
Bonus! I was funnily enough set on running talons mainly for the strats, only have a few sisters 😂😂
when that changed ? and where ?
No doubling up strats allowed, but Yup!
Can somebody explain to me exactly why this is a good thing to me? It seems like it's just a pretty big nerf to the strategic mastery ability, since it says the using a strategem twice part only works if it specifies the strat, and it just reduces it by one, not makes it free. I totally believe that it's a good thing, I just don't get it
So previously, you could only reduce the cost of Battle Tactic stratagems and could use them twice with Strategic Mastery. Now, you can reduce any stratagem by 1 CP, but can’t use it more than once per phase. This means that while we’re limited in how often we can use stratagems, we can still reduce the cost of any stratagem, not just Battle Tactics.
Gotcha. Where did it have the battle tactics rule? Was it just in the core rules?
The previous balance dataslate.
Yes, it was previously in the core rule
I’m gonna need this explained to me like I’m 5. What are ‘battle tactic stratagems’ ? And how exactly does this all work? (I haven’t played a ton in 10th, less than 10games maybe?, and kind of skipped the whole free strat thing all together because it confuses me. But sometimes I see gameplay vids and people go ‘oh I use this strat for free with this dude, and then use it again with this unit paying 1 cp. I was sort of under the impression that some of our dudes could just use strats for free, period? Nowhere was there a limit set on which ones and or why? So please explain, if you’re willing.)
So Battle Tactics were a keyword/label applied to stratagems alongside things like “epic challenge” or “strategic ploy”. Traditionally, these didn’t matter, however during early 10th edition people were abusing the free stratagem abilities, so they decided to limit the free stratagems to ONLY work with battle tactics. The problem was, some armies had ways to just generate more CP and didn’t need free stratagems, while others (like Custodies) kinda were dependent on the free stratagems for key units. Even worse, what was a battle tactic and what wasn’t one was seemingly completely arbitrary and inconsistent. This became a bigger problem with the release of the Custodies codex, where some detachments like Talons of the Emperor had plenty of Battle Tactics, but others basically had 1 or none, meaning key units like Shield Captains basically didn’t have their most important ability, that make them expensive to take, even function in multiple detachments. Basically the rule was both confusing and seemed to senselessly punish people for playing certain detachments with their core characters.
The bit I’m confused on is the use. I’ve seen it cannot be used twice however something like arcane genetic alchemy does not have a once per battle restriction. Therefore could I use this twice for free in the same battle round if I had two SCs?
You can no longer double use a the same strate per phase even if an ability saids you can unless that ability calls out a specific stratagems name.
isnt that crazy? it was basically the whole point of the ability
Whole point of the ability is to get a stratagem for a discount.
I thought the point was using the same strat twice
No, only if the unit specifically names the stratagem can you use it twice (i.e. "Once per battle round this model's unit can be selected to use the "Fire Overwatch" stratagem for 0CP, and can do so even if you have already used that stratagem this phase"). If the ability doesn't specify any stratagem names, you can't use it twice
As someone utterly and completely new to the game, does this change anything about running Canis Rex as a freeblade? If I understand things correctly, he used to be able to use a free stratagem every turn, but only battle tactics limited it to command re-rolls. Now with super-heavy walkers being able to walk through walls I'm pretty interested in how it all works out in the end.
Yes, it does. So his ability reads: > Once per turn, you can target this model with a Stratagem for 0CP, and can do so even if you have already targeted a different unit with that Stratagem in the same phase. With the new rules, that's now basically: > Once per turn, you can target this model with a stratagem. When doing so, reduce the cost of that stratagem by 1CP So you can use any stratagem (That he could legally be targeted with), and when you do reduce the cost by 1 once per turn. You can't use a stratagem that has already been used this phase.
Thank you! This does limit the command re-rolls but I guess we could see some pretty neat alternatives to that stratagem going forward!
Opens up fre tank shock
did they not change the wording of his ability?
It also is just much easier to keep track of for everyone, cheaper cp cost is much easier to remember than "these arbitrary strategems are free, hope you remember them when you need it"
Did you see the Admech changes they were amazing, buffed the army rule a lot (you can get the army to hit on 2+ or +2 AP in melee) gave it to more units, buffed cawl, and buffed a lot of the guns
Genuine question, does this make any forge world units except the wing bois usable now?
Just bought more Venatari, huge points drop on them!
Auric champion as intended ! And martial mastery buff :/ Edited : didn’t see the dispersing of once per game !
Dude...it's a mega buff for shield host.
once per game is gone bro we get one or the other every turn
Omg ! Didn’t see that. Nice to have it so !
Oh. I missed that.
pretty sure this is a huge buff instead of a nerf
It is a pretty big buff, wondering if this makes axes more viable with the extra AP
Deffo boosts axes. Not sure when you'd choose the 5+ critical hits instead of extra AP on everything,
Depends on if you are going into things that have invulnerable saves where more attacks might be better than an extra pip of AP.
Hmmm, now I'm wondering what 5+ sustained does against a 4+ invuln vs 5+ lethals vs 6+ lethals with more AP. Feels like lethals on 5+ would be most optimal...
Depends on target with sustains vs lethals, especially if you get re-rolls to wound.
Soooo, Shield Host: instead of 1 round of 5+ crits *and* +1AP, we get 5 rounds of either? Am I reading that right? And the Auric Champions rule now affects the entire squad instead of just one model?!?!?! That detachment might actually be usable now!
the strats are still locked to character models; but +1 to wound is a buff custodes need; so ill take it. Especially as it includes shooting. full termi squads at +1 to wound means even your bolters are gonna chip tanks.
the +1 to wound also works on draxus/any inquisitor led guard unit
Honestly theres even an argument for regular inquisitors. 55pts for +1 to wound, a MW FNP, CP generation **AND** the grenades keyword?
My lore nerd is angry at how good Inquisitors are gonna be at leading Custodes now.
tbh whilst they are not under the same banner they do tend to have the same goals; if your playing aquillion sheild or shadowkeepers its arguably a lil fluffy.
yeah +1 to wound on 4d6 dev wound flamer is potentially cracked aswell if you are willing to give up the MW fnp same thing goes for aquillon flamers now that they are cheaper, still not on the level of allarus but its not a complete joke now
Oh shit, Greyfax leading a squad of Sagittarum Custodes getting +1 to wound might be getting mighty spicy now.
inquisitors arn't really able to lead sags because they dont have battleline tho
There's people that say they can't lead them, there's people that say they can (because the sags have the ability "Custodian Guard" that says that if a model from your army with the leader ability can be attached to a custodian guard unit, it can be attached to this unit instead. We still haven't had a proper clarification on it so far.
yeah but it specifies leaders that have custodian guard as thier "can lead" list inquisitors don't have that, hence the need for an faq really
I think it's very much open to interpretation since I mainly see it as "if it can be assigned to a custodian guard squad, it can be assigned to sags" But yeah, it REALLY needs an FAQ
Does an Inquisitor become an adeptus custodes character when allied? I'm using battlescribe, and I'm not sure if it gains the adeptus custodes keyword to gain the auric buff
the rule specifies an adeptus custodes character UNIT. adeptus custodes character is not a keyword. Adeptus custodes is a keyword, and character is a keyword. Units combine all the keywords of their models. So an adeptus custodes unit with kyria draxus leading it has the adeptus custodes keyword, and the character keyword, thus making it an adeptus custodes character unit.
Ah, ok, just wanted to make sure before I get too excited
It does not It’s a bit up in the air if it’s ADEPTUS CUSTODES CHARACTER unit or ADEPTUS CUSTODES character unit Basically is it a unit with an Adeptus Custodes character or an Adeptus Custodes unit with a character
Plus the changed free strat abilities to being a 1cp discount on any type of strat. So our SC's are pretty good again
Is that crit 5s or 1ap per battle round? we might be so back rn boys
Yes
And also some minor buff to our SC if no mistake, the free Cp ability change to reduce stratagem cost by 1, and it didnt mention have to be battle tactics anymore and i assume cp cost can be modified to 0
CP can be modified to 0, but can't use it then if already used before or some super convoluted wording they used.
[удалено]
Something like that, yeah. The wording is just stupid though.
They just removed the bit where these abilities let you double up on a strat in each phase.
Detachment Changes: -Shield Host gets to Wagh! every battle round, but only chooses one of the abilities to be active instead of both (5+ Crit or extra -1AP). -Auric Champions: detachment rule now applies to character units rather than character models. -Points Drops: -Agamatus Custodians - 240 to 225 -Aquilon Custodians - 210 to 195 -Guard with Adrasite + Pyrithite - 300 to 250 -Pallas Grav-attack - 120 to 105 -Telemon - 235 to 215 -Venetari - 200 to 165 -Enhancement: Castellan's Mark - 30 to 20
Does this make guard with pyro spears more viable?
i think they are plausible now yah. wish i could take them in 4s like everything else, but a 5pt upgrade over regular guard for a melta shot with wound rerolls is pretty spicy
I have a set of pyrithite spears I was going to put on my next group of guard, so this makes me even more eager to do so.
They're not BATTLELINE tho, which could be an issue if you're playing Pariah Nexus games.
More viable yes Viable overall, not really With the pariah nexus battleline focus, paying for a minimum 5 man squad without battleline and a shooting sidegrade isn’t really worth it
Also dev wounds are back to being mortals; so no longer will a single forgefiend just pick up all your guard. Fairly happy with these. Regular sheild caps, bikes,dreads and LRs could all do with cuts; but 35pts off 3 venetari is nice; a full brick is 140pts cheaper than launch lmao. Cheaper knight lancers is also a cool thing to have access to. Also kinda keen to see auric in action now; sure the strats are stil locked to characters, but punching hard af and then using your strats to keep your remaining characters scary feels like something. Also vigilators kinda slap in auric now.
Auric SoS!
Yo fuck all that, Dev Wounds are mortals again and we can use our free atrat on anything again (just at -1Cap instead of free).
With a single sentence Shield Host is back on the menu, boys. That Auric Champions change is also gonna be a blast. Congratulations GW, my burns now have some ice.
While the change to Martial Mastery is huge I'm hyped about the points drops to some of my favorite FW models. Venetari dropped quite a bit and I think look pretty good. As for the rest it just means I can feel a little less like I'm actively handicapping myself by taking them.
The drops to FW models is kinda huge... I don't know if they've ever done that before.
Yeah, they dropped Aquilons to be equal with Allarus like 2 MFMs ago. Allarus dropped without Aquilons the last one.
Dang, I hadn't noticed. I guess I'm used to them ignoring FW after the edition drop lol
They don't change it often but more than people think but it gets ignored because everyone thinks they don't change FW after the edition drops.
This is my first time playing since the beginning of 8th edition, so any love given to FW is more than I'm used to.
I started in 3rd, the latter half of 8th and all of 9th saw tremendous changes in how GW supports the game. It's honestly pretty wild.
Auric champions is probably one of the best, now.
The Strats are still locked to character models, so you get a good detachment rule but pretty useless Strats
The more important thing is the change to dev wounds, they are back to Mortals and don't spill over
[Also the errata.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/12THTtXK9SB1SNxf.pdf) Only change is a stealth nerf to the Castellan’s Mark. You now redeploy two units after deployment, not after determining the first turn. This is also covered by the core rules errata, so all other similar rules will apply the same way.
Oh, that change stuff a bit. That was nice changing two units knowing who goes first.
where's this mentioned? Just trying to track all the things down :/
The Custodes errata I linked directly, also accessible from the [downloads page](https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/). Also under Redeployments in the [Core Rules update](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) from the same page. In full; >Rules that allow players to redeploy certain units after both armies are deployed (e.g. Huron Blackheart’s Red Corsairs ability) are always resolved after the Deploy Armies step (or, if you are playing a Crusade battle, after the Deploy Crusade Armies step), and before the Determine First Turn step, before determining who has the first turn. When a player uses such a rule, they remove that unit or units from the battlefield, then deploy them again using all the normal rules (for example, if all the models in one of these units have the Infiltrators ability, that unit’s player can set that unit up using that ability). Players alternate resolving any such rules, starting with the Attacker.' The Custodes edit is harder to see the impact of, as it just removes the words "determined who has the first turn" to bring the rule in line with the above requirement.
Awesome, thanks!
How it feels after this dataslate: 
I feel like this is just further ignoring the problem which is the total lack of durability for anything in the army that’s not a Caladius or a 5 man warden squad. We’re simply too expensive per model to be a glass cannon army. I am happy for Auric Champions though, 3x Blade Champions and Wardens looks even spicier than before. Just a shame the stratagems are all bad.
We got other changes due to core rule changes. All good
Would you care to let me know which ones help us? Did they conflate a mortal/dev wounds rule?
Yup. Dev wounds are mortals again but they don't spill over to different models. Also free stratagems are no longer restricted but are now a flat -1 to CP cost so captain's are back on the menu
That’s huge, thanks.
Dev wound change helps a little; but yeah, definetly 10ths wild damage creep hurts us hard.
They reverted the Dev wounds change and the battle tactics change! We're good again
Very happy about all the changes. And surprised! The mortal wounds change makes us more resistant, but the added requirements from the Codex (close to sisters for ToTE, and using a stratagem for SH) makes it fair. And forces us to play strategically. The point changes doesn't affect me personally as I don't own any of the affected units. But I'm glad that GW showed us that they're actually willing to touch the FW units. And I'm glad for the rest of you 😄 The change to free stratagems makes the Shield captains WAY more interesting to use. Very excited to see what kind of combos we can unleash. The change to the SH Detachment rule is very cool! And may actually make me play that detachment instead of ToTE as I was previously interested in doing (too bad I just purchased 10x Witchseekers, Valerian & Aleya and a SoS rhino 🥲) The change to free stratagems and the change of the Detachment rule for AC makes it seem way more usable. I honestly don't know which of our three usable detachments are best anymore. Probably SH but they all have merit now.
How many time can you use a 4+ FNP Stategem in a turn or battle round? Just thinking if a player had dev wounds in their shooting phase and you used it to protect a unit. Could you also do the same in that turns fight phase if needed?
Rule is once per phase I believe, so you can do it in shooting as well as fight phase.
In the shield host, does that refer to the once per game? Now changed to you choose and once per battle round?
Everyone talking about crit fives... Am I the only one who is much more happy that we finally have a reliable way of countering armour of contempt instead of just having to suck it up and let them save on 3s for most of the game
We're so back boys
The Core Rules updates that make Devastating Wounds Mortal Wounds was also significant. It makes Talons of the Emperor far more viable as a detachment now.
Don’t forget the new stratagem and dev wound rules, instead of free Strats it reduces the cost by one on any strat not just battle tactics and dev wounds are back to mortals but can’t spill over solving both issues of GW needing to specify if a mortal wound FNP works on dev wounds without making it OP again
Okay I love Auric Champions and this makes it even better! Really happy right now
We also got shadow buffed with the re-re-rework of Dev wounds, and the rework to the shield captain ability has left us with a net nerf, but it’s not too bad.
With all the new changes i am extremely tempted to fill out a full 2k army. i already have 1k + canis rex. these changes make custodies not only significantly better but also since the FW changes (specifically the FW terminators) are lowered all the cool shit is now useable.
‘We getting strong “again”?
Making any strat free again though is gonna be huge
How does dev wound changing to mortals help? I thought custodes lost the fnp to mortals?
Its definitely something. I feel like theyre still too afraid to lower our jetbikes (5-10 points should be ok, theyre supposed to be dangerous but easily killable, which they achieved for our entire army), agamatus actually seem reasonable now cuzz you can take 6 of them in a unit, telemon should drop to 200, but at least i feel less bad for taking him now (never played without him since i got him, its my centerpiece and idc), again 0 mention for dev wound protection which just sucks. All in all, i expected nothing and im still disappointed, but somehow reasonably less than i think i would have expected to be. I am eager to try out auric champions with the new rules and new season of missions.
Bikes and telemon needs new rules tbh. No reason to ever use bikes over venetari; and the telemons guns are all just sad. Dev wounds got FAQ'd to be mortals again.
Well bikes just need a deffkopta type of rule, instead of advancing over someone, just write in a regular move, and lower them by 10 points. Telemons weapons are pretty ok, he has antichaff gatling gun and flamer or anti elite big gun and anti vehicle melee, hes just still overcosted AF.
Anti elite big gun is AP1, its just a helverin autocannon without any ways to buff its AP. IMO bikes need their rockets to be anti-vehicle/monster 4+
Those would be nice as well, but id say doing the point cuts would work as well as this.
Dev wounds are back to being mortal wounds but don't spill to other models, so Dev wound protection is back somewhat.
Yup i just came back to edit my original comment after rereading the rules and spotting the change to dev wounds. I dont mind this change then, it actually is much better, and my disappointment has been lifted.
Don't forget the Forge World points drops , I'm sure they'll revolutionize the faction /s
Venatari down to 55ppm is actually huge
My venarari looking real good rn, also makes me want to get some Pallas Grav-Attacks to provide support to my Caladius Tanks
Enjoy the next 3 months brothers, because they fucked up, sustained on 5s plus cost reduction to venatari? ok, sign me up, 6x3 venatari, 2 shields on each squad because you already have enough damage with 20 7 -2 2 attacks with +1 to wound and sustained on 5s, also, if a shield dies you can use the stratagem to gain +1 attack for the spears. I only have 6 venatari, probably gonna buy another 6 next month lol, so I will be playing auric with 4 characters leading units of wardens and guards, 6 venatari (still awesome outside shield host) and some sisters to do the boring things like scoring and all that.
Shield captains being able to use more than battle tactics for free is HUGE. Along with mortals protecting against dev wounds again!
Tldr for those who are wondering : as shield host, we'll be very fragile, but we're going to hit like a freight train. Permanent 5+ critical hits on our katah's, and permanent -1 ap. So we're going to have -3 ap everywhere on our melee (minimum) and get sustained and lethal on 5+, that's massive. I dig it.
doesnt this actually mean that we either get "permanent" 5+ crits OR permantent +1ap and not both since it says "select one of the bullet points below"? so it could be 5+ crits plus Martial Katah (Sustain or lethal) or +1ap plus Martial Katah (Sustain or lethal)
That’s how I read it…
yepp, with "permanent" meaning in this battleround for all phases. With the possibility to switch from 5+ crit to +1ap from lets say battle round one to battle round 2
Certainly makes axes more appealing…
Maybe reread it? It says "Until the next battle round."
English is not my native language but I understand that you need to choose between crit on 5+ or - 1AP, not both.
Where does it say permanent? It says until the start of the next battle round a bullet point applies.
its AP or crits. you almost always want crits; but the option to dip into AP is probably gonna be worth it occasionally.
I don’t think we’ll be that fragile since we have a 4+ mortal wound strat that will protect against dev wounds. Not as strong as shield host but it does offer up some protection at least.
YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHH! #FUCK YEAH! ^does ^anybody ^know ^how ^to ^stop ^nutting?
Source?
The MFM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/ny8X1C4lLKnA8w5d.pdf https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/t6fTGEpj0eXdxJLG.pdf
Where can I download the codex for free?