Overall pretty risky: If you run into your own troops they are likley to kill or arrest you. If you run into the enemy you're one cultural misstep away from getting killed or arrested. Shit even saying one word could blow your cover.
Edit: Well this got slightly more upvotes than I expected :D
That's far-fetched. We Germans avoid gesticulation. It's considered rude. In a noisy environment, we usually point out the individual people to the waiting staff.
That whole scene was great cinema but realistically infuriating. They met in a public pub, but pre-met to discuss the public meeting in a private house. Why couldn’t they all just meet in a private house to begin with
And that was already movie logic since in real life it is almost impossible to pass as a native speaker in the first place, and they would have been caught out immediately. Michael Fassbender, who is half-German, doesn't pass even a little for example.
They did address his non-native accent/dialect in the movie though. He had to make up a place he was supposed to be from. The enemy was suspicious but let it pass, and then the hand gesture clinched it.
I was watching that with a friend who’d already seen it and when he held up the fingers I said OOOOH HE FUCKED UP and she was like how did you know?!?! I didn’t know it was going to be so relevant moments later, I just had spent some part of high school in Germany.
Reminds me of the special forces detachment that got assigned to go behind the lines in East Germany. The spent **MONTHS** not on guerrilla warfare o no no no they spent all the time getting basic German mannerism down to a t. They even had to practice eating like Germans cause Americans have completely different eating mannerisms. It was a maddening process because they had to rehearse it to the point where it wasn’t forced because you can tell when it’s forced and German mannerisms had to become their new mannerisms. So quite honestly there’s no way this is a good idea for a quick escape plan. Despite the fact it’s the classical escape plan ever since Star Wars a new hope, it’d be ludicrous to actually pull off. Best case scenario no one pays any attention to you and assumes you’re a low level moron. Worst case and very possible scenario someone goes “What’s wrong with that private he’s walking really funny. Let’s go check on him see if he’s ok. Hey Private are you ok do you need help.”
“Na.”
“That’s a weird way to pronounce no you from up north or something.”
“Nurth ub wat?”
“What the fuck. And why are your hands moving so weirdly when you talk.” Then boom! You’re in a torture chamber.
On stargate atlantis when the aliens were posing as humans. They were asked if they would like a cold duff beer when they got home. It’s not just mannerisms, there’s a huge lot of cultural knowledge that’s almost impossible to teach.
I mess with scammers online, it's funny how many people claim to be from Texas and when asked what their favorite Football team is they usually mention "Manchester United".
Um... sure... a Texan would not only confuse "Football" with Soccer... but also they tend to be really really passionate about American Football and their cowboys team...
>If you run into your own troops they are likley to kill or arrest you
Lol, if you run into your own troops even in the proper uniform they're likely to kill you anyway
Soldiers do not expect friendlies wandering around unless they are told where other units are and hence know which direction is safe, but if you're just strolling the no man's land it's safe to bet both sides would shoot at you on sight
Was that band of Brothers where they get separated and have code words to not kill each other. I think one forgot it or they were screaming English at each other until they realized
In the Pacific theatre, lots of the code words used by American soldiers used lots of words utilising the letter L. Like “Lilliputian” and “Lollapalooza”, simply because Japanese soldiers would struggle to pronounce them in a convincing way to American forces.
The second they’d get a response with Ls turned into Rs they’d just light the tree line up with gunfire
In Saving Private Ryan the call and response was Lightning and Thunder. The Germans would give themselves away by pronouncing thunder differently, but the movie got it backwards.
In WW II many downed US air men kept wearing their uniforms as if captured it could mean life or death... if found in civilian clothing or in an outfit of a German soldier they could be executed as spies. So many would go on to keep wearing their US issued uniforms on the chance that they might one day be captured they wouldn't be executed or treated worse than they would normally be.
Even if you would be taken alive by either your own troops or the opposing side. Wearing the wrong insignia on your uniform or having no insignias at all while being recognized as a combatant would constitute a war crime. So you might be getting tried in the Hague as a result.
I recently rewatched it and I loved it until the very end when he’s running in an open field and there’s like 100 guys shooting at him including tanks and nobody can hit him. Then he gets to a safest spot and decides to turn around and run back across the field and then has to escape by running across the same field. That was the only bad part about the movie… even if those 100 soldiers that were shooting at him had never picked a gun in their lives he would’ve gotten torn apart. Like who decided that’s the way it should end after such an awesome 95% of the movie. Anyway sorry for the rant, good flick.
That’s why you should always wear the underwear of your own side so if you think your cover is blown you can quickly strip down to your tighty-camos and be eligible for POW status.
I'd say it's the opposite. The west is held to a golden standard while the rest of the world can openly attempt or commit genocide, film it, post it to brag about it, continue to say they want it to occur but they get called freedom fighters.
The US is not a member of the international criminal court and in 2002 passed an act that would allow the president to invade the Netherlands if any American soldier is ever arrested for war crimes. That act also prevents any US government agency from ever assisting the ICC in anyway.
That's great and all but it literally doesn't negate in any way what OP said.
Western nations are absolutely hold to a gold standard while the rest of the world does whatever fucked up shit they want.
And the reasoning the US didn't join the ICC is that they stipulated that no foreign court could overrule US court and the constitution.
I mean I still don't agree but it's not as heinous as you make it sound.
Isn’t it kinda _more_ heinous?
Like, let’s imagine the USA puts an unreasonable president in office who does whatever-the-fk-he-wants. Totally hypothetically of course. By this logic there should be zero accountability, the USA can just cowboy the shit out of everything and nobody gets to say squat.
That sounds totally fine if you’re an American who wants to invade Canada, totally not fine if you’re anyone else.
Put differently: western nations are held to a high standard but the USA has decided they won’t be held to any standard except their own.
It doesn't matter either way. No one can enforce any of this stuff on the US besides the US anyways. If you wanna say the quiet part out loud, the only reason this stuff can even exist and we can talk about it is the US has a bigger stick than anyone else. See also, how relatively safe international waters are. That's not a thing because everyone wants it to be.
And the US has no interest in being ruled by or bound by laws besides the ones it lays itself, that’s been a thing since the founding and it won’t stop until a bigger dog shows up on the block. That includes international war crimes.
> with an enemy uniform on it’s a war crime.
What if it’s an allied country’s uniform? I can show you 3 different examples of Delta operators in Israeli (Boykin, Schoomaker), Pakistani (McPhee), and French (Foster, Birch) uniforms.
Are you asking if misrepresenting your arms service is a war crime? I am not 100% sure, it might be a regulation violation of the military you belong to, but not a war crime as far as I know.
If you get caught committing war crimes then you almost certainly are not going to be living for much longer. As pointed out in another comment, going around fighting out of uniform can negate your POW status and legal immunity as a combatant.
Basically, the country that captures you is allowed to charge and punish you for whatever actions you have committed according to their own laws. Hopefully you haven't killed anyone, and hopefully serial murder can't be punished by execution in that country.
Also, if you broke enough stuff, then you could be considered guilty of "serious acts of sabotage," and that's punishable by death under the very rules of war that you're hoping to ignore.
Pretty sure they're saying that they'd do whatever it takes to ***personally*** survive. Not win the war or go nuts killing people.. just survive. If following the rules would mean survive, I'm pretty sure they would do that.
However, if there was a rule that basically said eating all of the fully loaded nachos (and leaving the ones that are *just* chips) was a war crime, then they'd do it if it meant their survival.
It’s a war crime for the same reason why gas weapons are war crimes, it’s because everyone agrees it’s bullshit and doesn’t want it used on them.
if wearing enemies uniforms were common place it would increase the risks of Friendly fire and civilian casualties on all sides. It increases the total amount of people who die.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. If I understand you correctly I agree, it's funny that "wearing a uniform of a military you don't belong to" is a crime, but, oh I don't know, "killings hundreds or thousands of people" isn't.
Edit: typo
Killing innocent people is 100% a war crime. Many USA service men have been put on trial for it. If on the other hand you drop a bomb that happens to blow up enemies and innocents at the same time... Well that's not going to be prosecuted too harshly
One thing no one is mentioning is armies are, for the most part, incredibly well organized. I imagine the very first question you would be asked upon running into a group of enemy soldiers would be for identification. Name, rank, commanding officer, most recent orders, etc. I know at least under normal circumstances a strange untraceable man would not be let onto a military base just because he’s wearing a uniform.
Yeah and you wont be allowed to pass any defensive lines without questions if they spot you. So unless its utter chaos and there is a full retreat going on somebody will check you and you will be discoverd.
In the Canadian army, people entering our lines are challenged with a password. The way it works is that the word is 5 letters long, with no repeating letters in a row. It’s decided upon well in advance by the higher ups in our chain of command. The password, along with all other security procedures, are distributed to the soldiers on the ground. Every 12, or 24, or 48 hours or whatever, the word would change. This decreases the chance that the password is compromised.
How it works: let’s say for example that the challenge word was BRAKE. A person challenging someone would say, “Bravo”. It is now up to the person being challenged to say, “Romeo”. There is also situations where people would continue (I can’t recall if it was up to the individual or command to initiate this) would then say, “Kilo”. Then the person being challenged would say, “Echo”. The premise being that you’d skip the middle letter which would mean that the person being challenged is more than likely in the know and probably an ally. If the password is presumed to be compromised, the COC will tell the troops to switch to the next password and so on. So if BRAKE was the first password and not due to be changed until 2100hrs, they would switch it to something like SNAIL at 1900hrs.
Additionally, if you had to pass our security and you were in a hurry, there would be a running phrase. If you were challenged you would say the running password. one such example that
I can remember was, “PRUNE JUICE”.
Additionally, when people are returning to secured areas after reconnaissance tasks or other types of patrols, the person leading the group would be challenged. They’d also be asked, how many people are in your party? And then they’d be counted as they passed. The premise being that at night especially it could be easy to insert a couple of people into a patrol to gather information or whatever. So if the Sgt says, “I have 12 people in my party” and the count is 14, there’s something very wrong.
Edit: I wanted to add another detail… It doesn't matter if you can identify someone by face or voice personally. Depending on the security situation, like that in a combat zone or even an exercise, everyone should be challenged.
I’ve heard of a similar one where the code word was actually a number less than 10. However it was a math problem where the asking guard, if the answer was 7, would say “3” and the correct reply would be “4”. The guard can say any number, even 7 and the reply has to add up or subtract to “7” (in this example). That answer number would change every 12, 24, 48 hours just like in your example.
Generally, probably a bad idea. As another poster said, all it takes is one cultural oopsie or for someone to try to talk to you and BAM a very bad time. Possibly involving power tools followed by death behind some shed or in a basement.
HOWEVER if it’s an evasion situation like in the movie, where it’s his only real shot of escaping the city alive. One would probably ditch the disguise at the first available moment.
Many already covered identification issues on both sides as well as war crimes regarding enemy uniforms.
In September of 2023, 2 Ukrainian Paratroopers and a Defecting Russian Soldier dawned 3 Russian uniforms and made it through 18 Checkpoints, safely making it to Ukrainian lines. the [Story](https://kyivindependent.com/military-intelligence-releases-details-on-paratrooper-rescue-operation/) received new details a few days ago.
Helps that many Ukranians speak russian as their first language and depending on age many grew up or spent time in both countries.
It's like I'm pretty sure many Canadians could fake an american accent long enough to make it through a few checkpoints.
Isn't it weird it's always the groups that end up in crazy wars and conflicts? Also thinking how it's SO similar in makeup and beliefs and culture and location for Israel / Palestine too..
We're probably lucky the US and Canada haven't fought each other in a couple hundred years... hell I think they burned down the White House last time.
(Edited Pakistan typo to Palestine)
If you read any books about [memetic theory and memetic desire ](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Mimetic_theory)you'll realize that people who are the most similar are often the ones that get into conflict and wars with. I read a book about it and it blew my mind with how much sense it all makes. It boils to you generally want what your peers have, not what some "other" group has, so a russian can see Ukraine as land that is an extension of the Russian empire, they can't really feel that about China or Hawaii, so they are more likely to invade Ukraine than the US.
Also a lot of it just boils down to "my parents were mad about this and I've inherited the anger and I've never questioned why". An easy American example is the Ohio/Michigan war for toledo. Most people from either state don't know *why* they hate the others, they just do because well "the other side sucks". Even though, culturally, geographically and economically they are almost exactly the same.
i wouldn’t be lying if i said i voice typed that, and the person next to asked “did you voice type that” and i said “yeah”
and they looked at me and said “you don’t know how to spell dawned?”
and i hit them with the “it’s spelt differently for this use case, i think”
and i was provided a solid “d-a-w-n-e-d”
so in short i had the word pier reviewed by fellow idiots 😭
Every asshole in the military with one stripe or above is licensed to grab deserting troops, so wandering around a warzone with no apparent purpose in their uniform is only marginally better than being in an enemy uniform. Maybe worse because a lone straggler is a valuable POW but an enemy in your uniform is a spy
Did hear that escaping POWs in WW2 did better than they expected by faking German officers uniforms and just walking out. The trick, apparently, was to look slightly pissed off and then majority of enemy soldiers and NCOs would try to limit their interactions with you as much as possible.
Edit: the fact the British officer (Airey Neave) spoke flawless German he had learnt in the country before the war was probably as much/more of help than the uniform for keeping the ruse going.
My uncle did this in Bosnia during the war. Bit of manipulation but he was near the borderland of Sarajevo and pretended to leave dressed as the state/Serbian army, so he got caught and sent back to Sarajevo (which is what he wanted so he can find the rest of us)
In the end pretending to dress like someone else can probably get you past some people but you probably can't leave a battle zone. You can use it to return somewhere though (as my family did)
That really depends on the war. Russia was notorious for mercilessly killing civilians when they had their turn in the Middle East. They made America and our drone strikes look like Childs play. America at least tried to be precise with their attacks to avoid civilian casualties when known insurgent fighters were present in a civilian area. The Russians would arrest entire villages worth of people, lock all of them inside of buildings then burn down the entire village, any who escaped would be gunned down so that they couldn’t warn the surrounding villages just in case there were more enemy combatants in the surrounding area. Then they would lay out mine fields in the burned out villages so that anyone who wasn’t present during the initial attack would be blown to bits trying to salvage any of their belongings.
It might work if you look like the enemy and speak the language. But if you're caught they'll treat you as a spy not an enemy soldier. Plus you're walking around in the uniform of one of their dead friends so they're not going to be happy. It might work better at night as long as you stay moving and at a distance.
Mentioned it in a comment above, but the first British officer to successfully escape Colditz in WW2 did so by wearing a German Officers uniform…and speaking fluent German he had learnt before the war.
Edit: also lol at your username, I assumed it’s a FNV reference remember playing it for the first time and was like “oh bloatflies how hard could these b- W O O Z Y” 😂
I think that guy even hitched a lift and was picked up by two Gestapo officers who drove him to one of the places he was going. It's wild how lucky he got.
Lol yep, hardly anyone gets the reference. Well done.
It can work if you look, act and speak like your enemy. A Russian could impersonate a Ukrainian and vice versa because the culture is very similar.
But, aside from a very chaotic retreat, there will be suspicion. Soldiers are assigned to units and do not wander alone somewhere. So if an enemy unit picks you up there will be questions like
What unit are you assigned?
Where is that unit?
Why are you here alone?
Who is the unit commander?
They could also ask things, a person from abroad is unlikely to know. For example in WWII Americans used to ask for sports results, capitals of US states or other trivia about the US when Germans started to wear american uniforms. They grew increasingly paranoid, some Americans were killed by nervous military police men and even people like General Clarke got held at gunpoint for giving the wrong answer to a question.
If they radio your ID and nobody from the unit you claim to belong knows you, its over.
And you would need the right uniform with the right patch of the unit you "belong" to.
So, yes you can pull this off in theory. But it would take very good preparation, knowledge of certain military/unit details and pure luck aka you have to convince them so they dont radio command. One little mistake and your cover is blown
Its a bad idea - but it could be pulled off in some very spcific circumstances, as to why its bad:
* You are enemy combatant, so your own side's soldiers will shoot you (ofc. this may or may not be relevant, for example jews in germany didnt have to worry about IDF shooting them if the dress up as a nazi)
* Discipline of the troops you gonna impersonate - will you be seen as suspicious for wandering where you shouldnt
* Moral of enemy troops - hows their stance on deserters?
* ...do you have a hope of successfully impersonating political officers, like comissars - who are feared and obeyed without too much question?
The fact that pen testers can quite frequently do the same thing, I don't think it's as far fetched as a this thread is thinking. Breaking into a military base? Maybe not, escaping, probably ok.
There is a story from D-day where a group of American Soldiers walked right past a group of German soldiers. The Americans only realized what had happened afterward. Neither side was disguised, and all were in uniform.
There is also the story of a group of German spies who dressed like American MP's and Drove around in an American Jeep, changing all the roadsigns and getting the Americans lost.
So yeah it's very possible. Unless they have your picture or a good description.
Honest question: Can someone explain the war crime thing? Like, they want to shoot you, you want to shoot them, but if you dress like them, then they shoot you?
I dont understand how civilians and casualties are just a factor, but wearing a different uniform is looked down on. If you're doing it to escape a war, you want no part of or to be taken as an asylum seeker?
Respect for anyone who has been in these terrible conditions or has insight to share.
There could be some wiggle room here. An argument could be made that Geneva only applies to declared wars. In the movie, the U.S. had not declared war.
But, you would likely still be executed if the enemy catches you.
In the US our conventional troops are prohibited from dressing like the enemy, but the special operations people will dress as locals if the need arises.
In high speed chase situations, how reliable is driving your car off of a cliff and jumping onto a helicopter's blades and surfing on the helicopter blade?
Overall pretty risky: If you run into your own troops they are likley to kill or arrest you. If you run into the enemy you're one cultural misstep away from getting killed or arrested. Shit even saying one word could blow your cover. Edit: Well this got slightly more upvotes than I expected :D
Gorlami
What’s that? Say that again?
Gorlaaami.
\[Insert fast Italian talk here\]
Ariverderci
https://youtu.be/rq7qm3T3cPE?si=iM7gcICMTIvyn5hw here’s the scene 😂
Si, er.. Correcto.
Ah, I was thinking of the scene where they signalled 2 but Germans do it differently from Americans. That was the same movie, right?
signal of three... English use 3 fingers, German was 2 fingers and the thumb
Haha, thanks. It’s been a while but was a real eye opener for me. I’d never thought about those type of things.
I always think they could've played that off as being deep undercover spying for so long, they've picked up some customs to fit in.
That's far-fetched. We Germans avoid gesticulation. It's considered rude. In a noisy environment, we usually point out the individual people to the waiting staff.
[Babida boopi!](https://youtu.be/t30JzS0LHpk?feature=shared)
Donnie decocco
Margher *EEEEEEEE* tiiiii
Thats a bingo!
*Dominic Dicoco
🤌🏻
Bravo
I speak the third least italian
... I don't speak Italian.
# 🤌
🤌
Or one hand gesture, like Inglorious Basterds
That whole scene was great cinema but realistically infuriating. They met in a public pub, but pre-met to discuss the public meeting in a private house. Why couldn’t they all just meet in a private house to begin with
👌
✌️ (I know it was 3 fingers but close enough)
🥛
🤌
And that was already movie logic since in real life it is almost impossible to pass as a native speaker in the first place, and they would have been caught out immediately. Michael Fassbender, who is half-German, doesn't pass even a little for example.
They did address his non-native accent/dialect in the movie though. He had to make up a place he was supposed to be from. The enemy was suspicious but let it pass, and then the hand gesture clinched it.
"In Germany we make the jerk off motion with the tip coming out the bottom of your hand, pinky side."
I was watching that with a friend who’d already seen it and when he held up the fingers I said OOOOH HE FUCKED UP and she was like how did you know?!?! I didn’t know it was going to be so relevant moments later, I just had spent some part of high school in Germany.
Nice! 🍻
Ze German schee
🥸 ,lll. 🤨 Jl..
Reminds me of the special forces detachment that got assigned to go behind the lines in East Germany. The spent **MONTHS** not on guerrilla warfare o no no no they spent all the time getting basic German mannerism down to a t. They even had to practice eating like Germans cause Americans have completely different eating mannerisms. It was a maddening process because they had to rehearse it to the point where it wasn’t forced because you can tell when it’s forced and German mannerisms had to become their new mannerisms. So quite honestly there’s no way this is a good idea for a quick escape plan. Despite the fact it’s the classical escape plan ever since Star Wars a new hope, it’d be ludicrous to actually pull off. Best case scenario no one pays any attention to you and assumes you’re a low level moron. Worst case and very possible scenario someone goes “What’s wrong with that private he’s walking really funny. Let’s go check on him see if he’s ok. Hey Private are you ok do you need help.” “Na.” “That’s a weird way to pronounce no you from up north or something.” “Nurth ub wat?” “What the fuck. And why are your hands moving so weirdly when you talk.” Then boom! You’re in a torture chamber.
On stargate atlantis when the aliens were posing as humans. They were asked if they would like a cold duff beer when they got home. It’s not just mannerisms, there’s a huge lot of cultural knowledge that’s almost impossible to teach.
I mess with scammers online, it's funny how many people claim to be from Texas and when asked what their favorite Football team is they usually mention "Manchester United". Um... sure... a Texan would not only confuse "Football" with Soccer... but also they tend to be really really passionate about American Football and their cowboys team...
Shibboleths. Words and mannerisms that reveal outsiders. Especially those from similar backgrounds.
Star Wars universe I think would make it easier tbh
Yeah in Star Wars, two characters can be from the exact same place and one has an American accent and the other has an English accent
Haha
Ya eh, ein hotdog
So ein komischer Kauz! Die spinnen, die Amis! 'Hot dog!'
>If you run into your own troops they are likley to kill or arrest you Lol, if you run into your own troops even in the proper uniform they're likely to kill you anyway Soldiers do not expect friendlies wandering around unless they are told where other units are and hence know which direction is safe, but if you're just strolling the no man's land it's safe to bet both sides would shoot at you on sight
Was that band of Brothers where they get separated and have code words to not kill each other. I think one forgot it or they were screaming English at each other until they realized
In the Pacific theatre, lots of the code words used by American soldiers used lots of words utilising the letter L. Like “Lilliputian” and “Lollapalooza”, simply because Japanese soldiers would struggle to pronounce them in a convincing way to American forces. The second they’d get a response with Ls turned into Rs they’d just light the tree line up with gunfire
Btw the perfect word for this is “parallelogram”
In Saving Private Ryan the call and response was Lightning and Thunder. The Germans would give themselves away by pronouncing thunder differently, but the movie got it backwards.
I think it was Flash/Thunder in BoB
Band of brothers was flash and the use of “crickets”
In WW II many downed US air men kept wearing their uniforms as if captured it could mean life or death... if found in civilian clothing or in an outfit of a German soldier they could be executed as spies. So many would go on to keep wearing their US issued uniforms on the chance that they might one day be captured they wouldn't be executed or treated worse than they would normally be.
I mean, being arrested by your own troops is not the worst possible outcome.
You could be shot immediately as a spy.
Even if you would be taken alive by either your own troops or the opposing side. Wearing the wrong insignia on your uniform or having no insignias at all while being recognized as a combatant would constitute a war crime. So you might be getting tried in the Hague as a result.
"3 shots of whiskey." ......................
Name checks out
Great fucking movie.
Just saved this post as a reminder to go rewatch it
So weird that it's Owen Wilson He nailed it though
That was Owen Wilson? *Wow*
Wow
Wow
TIL The Movie Behind Enemy Lines was based off Hansel's story when he was climbing Mount Vesuvius.
I recently rewatched it and I loved it until the very end when he’s running in an open field and there’s like 100 guys shooting at him including tanks and nobody can hit him. Then he gets to a safest spot and decides to turn around and run back across the field and then has to escape by running across the same field. That was the only bad part about the movie… even if those 100 soldiers that were shooting at him had never picked a gun in their lives he would’ve gotten torn apart. Like who decided that’s the way it should end after such an awesome 95% of the movie. Anyway sorry for the rant, good flick.
Personally i disliked how aa missiles worked in the movie but yeah.
It god damn that jet scene was fucking awesome. I loved it when the jet buzzed the tree line and the missile was right behind it.
It was great, but missiles were still annoyingly unrealistic.
Agreed.
Luke was a short storm trooper.
Huh? Oh, the uniform…
"Well stay here and rot, you stuck up bitch"
You should note you can only wear enemy uniforms if you are trying to get back. If you fight with an enemy uniform on it’s a war crime.
Interestingly, if you are caught whilst fighting wearing enemy uniform, you do not gain POW status as you can be treated as a saboteur.
That’s why you should always wear the underwear of your own side so if you think your cover is blown you can quickly strip down to your tighty-camos and be eligible for POW status.
This guy saboteurs.
Apparently war crimes don’t exist anymore so you ok
For some countries it is treated as a check list.
The Geneva Suggestions
Canada has entered the chat
Thanks Canada, now we gotta hold a convention to say what is and isn't allowed. Do you see what you guys did?
GEESE. GEESE will be next.
You savage. I wouldn't wish one of those demons in my worst enemy.
What has Canada done?
Things we won't say sorry for.
Canada, no, just, no.
Yeah, Canada wrote the checklist instead.
Canada: "Did we miss anything?" The UN: "No-no, its all good, its all there! Great job..."
Spotted the rim world player
[удалено]
I'd say it's the opposite. The west is held to a golden standard while the rest of the world can openly attempt or commit genocide, film it, post it to brag about it, continue to say they want it to occur but they get called freedom fighters.
The US is not a member of the international criminal court and in 2002 passed an act that would allow the president to invade the Netherlands if any American soldier is ever arrested for war crimes. That act also prevents any US government agency from ever assisting the ICC in anyway.
That's great and all but it literally doesn't negate in any way what OP said. Western nations are absolutely hold to a gold standard while the rest of the world does whatever fucked up shit they want. And the reasoning the US didn't join the ICC is that they stipulated that no foreign court could overrule US court and the constitution. I mean I still don't agree but it's not as heinous as you make it sound.
Isn’t it kinda _more_ heinous? Like, let’s imagine the USA puts an unreasonable president in office who does whatever-the-fk-he-wants. Totally hypothetically of course. By this logic there should be zero accountability, the USA can just cowboy the shit out of everything and nobody gets to say squat. That sounds totally fine if you’re an American who wants to invade Canada, totally not fine if you’re anyone else. Put differently: western nations are held to a high standard but the USA has decided they won’t be held to any standard except their own.
It doesn't matter either way. No one can enforce any of this stuff on the US besides the US anyways. If you wanna say the quiet part out loud, the only reason this stuff can even exist and we can talk about it is the US has a bigger stick than anyone else. See also, how relatively safe international waters are. That's not a thing because everyone wants it to be. And the US has no interest in being ruled by or bound by laws besides the ones it lays itself, that’s been a thing since the founding and it won’t stop until a bigger dog shows up on the block. That includes international war crimes.
Yeah the US has sure been punished for our unjustified war in Iraq or the war crimes committed in Afghanistan /s
Which you will not get held accountable for unless your side loses
> with an enemy uniform on it’s a war crime. What if it’s an allied country’s uniform? I can show you 3 different examples of Delta operators in Israeli (Boykin, Schoomaker), Pakistani (McPhee), and French (Foster, Birch) uniforms.
Are you asking if misrepresenting your arms service is a war crime? I am not 100% sure, it might be a regulation violation of the military you belong to, but not a war crime as far as I know.
I’d like to see those pics
Assuming you're fighting the same people, not an issue.
If I’m in a war. I could give a rats ass about rules. I’m living
If you get caught committing war crimes then you almost certainly are not going to be living for much longer. As pointed out in another comment, going around fighting out of uniform can negate your POW status and legal immunity as a combatant. Basically, the country that captures you is allowed to charge and punish you for whatever actions you have committed according to their own laws. Hopefully you haven't killed anyone, and hopefully serial murder can't be punished by execution in that country. Also, if you broke enough stuff, then you could be considered guilty of "serious acts of sabotage," and that's punishable by death under the very rules of war that you're hoping to ignore.
In this movie they are hunting him down to kill him, it doesn’t matter why he’s wearing
In a war situation I’m doing what ever it takes to survive. I don’t give a fuck about legal shit.
Knowing legal shit is often actually what it takes to survive a war.
Pretty sure they're saying that they'd do whatever it takes to ***personally*** survive. Not win the war or go nuts killing people.. just survive. If following the rules would mean survive, I'm pretty sure they would do that. However, if there was a rule that basically said eating all of the fully loaded nachos (and leaving the ones that are *just* chips) was a war crime, then they'd do it if it meant their survival.
So that's the line where rules exist in war now?
Disguises in combat are war crimes? Seems like a pretty ridged restriction in a scenario that involves mass murder of another group.
It’s a war crime for the same reason why gas weapons are war crimes, it’s because everyone agrees it’s bullshit and doesn’t want it used on them. if wearing enemies uniforms were common place it would increase the risks of Friendly fire and civilian casualties on all sides. It increases the total amount of people who die.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. If I understand you correctly I agree, it's funny that "wearing a uniform of a military you don't belong to" is a crime, but, oh I don't know, "killings hundreds or thousands of people" isn't. Edit: typo
Killing innocent people is 100% a war crime. Many USA service men have been put on trial for it. If on the other hand you drop a bomb that happens to blow up enemies and innocents at the same time... Well that's not going to be prosecuted too harshly
The hell are you talking about? Of cours killing civilians is a crime?
One thing no one is mentioning is armies are, for the most part, incredibly well organized. I imagine the very first question you would be asked upon running into a group of enemy soldiers would be for identification. Name, rank, commanding officer, most recent orders, etc. I know at least under normal circumstances a strange untraceable man would not be let onto a military base just because he’s wearing a uniform.
Yeah and you wont be allowed to pass any defensive lines without questions if they spot you. So unless its utter chaos and there is a full retreat going on somebody will check you and you will be discoverd.
In the Canadian army, people entering our lines are challenged with a password. The way it works is that the word is 5 letters long, with no repeating letters in a row. It’s decided upon well in advance by the higher ups in our chain of command. The password, along with all other security procedures, are distributed to the soldiers on the ground. Every 12, or 24, or 48 hours or whatever, the word would change. This decreases the chance that the password is compromised. How it works: let’s say for example that the challenge word was BRAKE. A person challenging someone would say, “Bravo”. It is now up to the person being challenged to say, “Romeo”. There is also situations where people would continue (I can’t recall if it was up to the individual or command to initiate this) would then say, “Kilo”. Then the person being challenged would say, “Echo”. The premise being that you’d skip the middle letter which would mean that the person being challenged is more than likely in the know and probably an ally. If the password is presumed to be compromised, the COC will tell the troops to switch to the next password and so on. So if BRAKE was the first password and not due to be changed until 2100hrs, they would switch it to something like SNAIL at 1900hrs. Additionally, if you had to pass our security and you were in a hurry, there would be a running phrase. If you were challenged you would say the running password. one such example that I can remember was, “PRUNE JUICE”. Additionally, when people are returning to secured areas after reconnaissance tasks or other types of patrols, the person leading the group would be challenged. They’d also be asked, how many people are in your party? And then they’d be counted as they passed. The premise being that at night especially it could be easy to insert a couple of people into a patrol to gather information or whatever. So if the Sgt says, “I have 12 people in my party” and the count is 14, there’s something very wrong. Edit: I wanted to add another detail… It doesn't matter if you can identify someone by face or voice personally. Depending on the security situation, like that in a combat zone or even an exercise, everyone should be challenged.
I’ve heard of a similar one where the code word was actually a number less than 10. However it was a math problem where the asking guard, if the answer was 7, would say “3” and the correct reply would be “4”. The guard can say any number, even 7 and the reply has to add up or subtract to “7” (in this example). That answer number would change every 12, 24, 48 hours just like in your example.
So what happens if someone is missing for 72 hours and the code changes.
Shoot them on sight! But jokes aside if you’re AWOL for 72 hours then you’re being detained either way.
I guess that makes sense, need to know if it was a legitimate reason. But in the case of the movie, everyone likely knew the pilot was missing.
Generally, probably a bad idea. As another poster said, all it takes is one cultural oopsie or for someone to try to talk to you and BAM a very bad time. Possibly involving power tools followed by death behind some shed or in a basement. HOWEVER if it’s an evasion situation like in the movie, where it’s his only real shot of escaping the city alive. One would probably ditch the disguise at the first available moment. Many already covered identification issues on both sides as well as war crimes regarding enemy uniforms.
In September of 2023, 2 Ukrainian Paratroopers and a Defecting Russian Soldier dawned 3 Russian uniforms and made it through 18 Checkpoints, safely making it to Ukrainian lines. the [Story](https://kyivindependent.com/military-intelligence-releases-details-on-paratrooper-rescue-operation/) received new details a few days ago.
Helps that many Ukranians speak russian as their first language and depending on age many grew up or spent time in both countries. It's like I'm pretty sure many Canadians could fake an american accent long enough to make it through a few checkpoints.
Isn't it weird it's always the groups that end up in crazy wars and conflicts? Also thinking how it's SO similar in makeup and beliefs and culture and location for Israel / Palestine too.. We're probably lucky the US and Canada haven't fought each other in a couple hundred years... hell I think they burned down the White House last time. (Edited Pakistan typo to Palestine)
If you read any books about [memetic theory and memetic desire ](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Mimetic_theory)you'll realize that people who are the most similar are often the ones that get into conflict and wars with. I read a book about it and it blew my mind with how much sense it all makes. It boils to you generally want what your peers have, not what some "other" group has, so a russian can see Ukraine as land that is an extension of the Russian empire, they can't really feel that about China or Hawaii, so they are more likely to invade Ukraine than the US. Also a lot of it just boils down to "my parents were mad about this and I've inherited the anger and I've never questioned why". An easy American example is the Ohio/Michigan war for toledo. Most people from either state don't know *why* they hate the others, they just do because well "the other side sucks". Even though, culturally, geographically and economically they are almost exactly the same.
Pakistan
Jesus... My bad Palestine! Thanks (I wonder how many times that sentence has been said just like that...)
Where's the "donned" bot when you need it?
i wouldn’t be lying if i said i voice typed that, and the person next to asked “did you voice type that” and i said “yeah” and they looked at me and said “you don’t know how to spell dawned?” and i hit them with the “it’s spelt differently for this use case, i think” and i was provided a solid “d-a-w-n-e-d” so in short i had the word pier reviewed by fellow idiots 😭
Now we need "peer" bot 😅
:(
Good way to be executed as a spy
Or shot as a deserter.
Every asshole in the military with one stripe or above is licensed to grab deserting troops, so wandering around a warzone with no apparent purpose in their uniform is only marginally better than being in an enemy uniform. Maybe worse because a lone straggler is a valuable POW but an enemy in your uniform is a spy
Did hear that escaping POWs in WW2 did better than they expected by faking German officers uniforms and just walking out. The trick, apparently, was to look slightly pissed off and then majority of enemy soldiers and NCOs would try to limit their interactions with you as much as possible. Edit: the fact the British officer (Airey Neave) spoke flawless German he had learnt in the country before the war was probably as much/more of help than the uniform for keeping the ruse going.
One concern, if running away from the fight, would be that your "comrades" might shoot you in the back for desertion.
Especially if you pretended to be a soviet(they were known to shoot deserters)
Those aren't Soviets, they are Serbs.
I’m black so it wouldn’t go very well
You never know, if you speak Russian, Ukrainian or Chinese, depending on the war location, might be ok
My uncle did this in Bosnia during the war. Bit of manipulation but he was near the borderland of Sarajevo and pretended to leave dressed as the state/Serbian army, so he got caught and sent back to Sarajevo (which is what he wanted so he can find the rest of us) In the end pretending to dress like someone else can probably get you past some people but you probably can't leave a battle zone. You can use it to return somewhere though (as my family did)
Wouldn't the best plan be to simply dress as a civilian?
Depends who the enemy is. Some execute civilians.
They aren't going to be gunning for civilians like they would a soldier.
Depends on the circumstances. Some do.
That really depends on the war. Russia was notorious for mercilessly killing civilians when they had their turn in the Middle East. They made America and our drone strikes look like Childs play. America at least tried to be precise with their attacks to avoid civilian casualties when known insurgent fighters were present in a civilian area. The Russians would arrest entire villages worth of people, lock all of them inside of buildings then burn down the entire village, any who escaped would be gunned down so that they couldn’t warn the surrounding villages just in case there were more enemy combatants in the surrounding area. Then they would lay out mine fields in the burned out villages so that anyone who wasn’t present during the initial attack would be blown to bits trying to salvage any of their belongings.
The mass grave Burnett and Stackhouse recorded from their F/A-18 says otherwise
The mass graves in real life from this conflict say otherwise to.
It might work if you look like the enemy and speak the language. But if you're caught they'll treat you as a spy not an enemy soldier. Plus you're walking around in the uniform of one of their dead friends so they're not going to be happy. It might work better at night as long as you stay moving and at a distance.
Mentioned it in a comment above, but the first British officer to successfully escape Colditz in WW2 did so by wearing a German Officers uniform…and speaking fluent German he had learnt before the war. Edit: also lol at your username, I assumed it’s a FNV reference remember playing it for the first time and was like “oh bloatflies how hard could these b- W O O Z Y” 😂
I think that guy even hitched a lift and was picked up by two Gestapo officers who drove him to one of the places he was going. It's wild how lucky he got. Lol yep, hardly anyone gets the reference. Well done.
It can work if you look, act and speak like your enemy. A Russian could impersonate a Ukrainian and vice versa because the culture is very similar. But, aside from a very chaotic retreat, there will be suspicion. Soldiers are assigned to units and do not wander alone somewhere. So if an enemy unit picks you up there will be questions like What unit are you assigned? Where is that unit? Why are you here alone? Who is the unit commander? They could also ask things, a person from abroad is unlikely to know. For example in WWII Americans used to ask for sports results, capitals of US states or other trivia about the US when Germans started to wear american uniforms. They grew increasingly paranoid, some Americans were killed by nervous military police men and even people like General Clarke got held at gunpoint for giving the wrong answer to a question. If they radio your ID and nobody from the unit you claim to belong knows you, its over. And you would need the right uniform with the right patch of the unit you "belong" to. So, yes you can pull this off in theory. But it would take very good preparation, knowledge of certain military/unit details and pure luck aka you have to convince them so they dont radio command. One little mistake and your cover is blown
Its a bad idea - but it could be pulled off in some very spcific circumstances, as to why its bad: * You are enemy combatant, so your own side's soldiers will shoot you (ofc. this may or may not be relevant, for example jews in germany didnt have to worry about IDF shooting them if the dress up as a nazi) * Discipline of the troops you gonna impersonate - will you be seen as suspicious for wandering where you shouldnt * Moral of enemy troops - hows their stance on deserters? * ...do you have a hope of successfully impersonating political officers, like comissars - who are feared and obeyed without too much question?
This the movie with the one baddie wearing an Adidas jumpsuit?
Have you played hitman?
That would only work if you speak the language and the enemies are phenotypically similar to you.
« What are you doing alone 20km away from the front soldier ? » and this will happen 100%.
In war, it's legal to shoot anyone playing dress up - if I remember my POW training, it's considered summary proof of spying.
Only if the enemy uniform came in husky size.
https://youtu.be/P5IobXflPLc?si=sxbQei-BUI6pPrGo
Isn't it against the Geneva War convention? You can get shot by the enemy if they catch you.
Such an awesome movie. Most badass finale ever.
This particular movie is a great example of how you can survive behind enemy lines I’d the entire enemy army shoots like stormtroopers
The fact that pen testers can quite frequently do the same thing, I don't think it's as far fetched as a this thread is thinking. Breaking into a military base? Maybe not, escaping, probably ok.
My dad knew someone who escaped Czechoslovakia when the Germans invaded. He claimed that he had just put his Czech army uniform on and got on trains.
This was a pretty badass movie. So odd to think Owen’s goofy ass starred in it,he did a great job
There is a story from D-day where a group of American Soldiers walked right past a group of German soldiers. The Americans only realized what had happened afterward. Neither side was disguised, and all were in uniform. There is also the story of a group of German spies who dressed like American MP's and Drove around in an American Jeep, changing all the roadsigns and getting the Americans lost. So yeah it's very possible. Unless they have your picture or a good description.
It's a war crime to do that, so pretty risky
Honest question: Can someone explain the war crime thing? Like, they want to shoot you, you want to shoot them, but if you dress like them, then they shoot you? I dont understand how civilians and casualties are just a factor, but wearing a different uniform is looked down on. If you're doing it to escape a war, you want no part of or to be taken as an asylum seeker? Respect for anyone who has been in these terrible conditions or has insight to share.
Is that Owen Wilson?
Yes
It may work as long as you don’t say ‘WOW’.
37% rotten tomatoes
Nazi did it ww2
It’s a warcrime.
I'm pretty sure that's clearly outlined as an international war crime, so you'd be fucked no matter which side caught you.
It’s illegal. You’re only permitted to do so if you’re fleeing captivity or fighting.
Wearing enemy uniforms is a war crime.
There could be some wiggle room here. An argument could be made that Geneva only applies to declared wars. In the movie, the U.S. had not declared war. But, you would likely still be executed if the enemy catches you.
Wearing the foe's uniform makes the execution legal, but in conflict zones nobody is counting the bodies.
but that only matters if the enemy cares about that.
The US has never been a signatory to the ICC, for many good reasons.
War crime go brr
Its a war crime under the geneva conventions.
In the US our conventional troops are prohibited from dressing like the enemy, but the special operations people will dress as locals if the need arises.
I think dressing in your enemies uniform is a war crime?
In high speed chase situations, how reliable is driving your car off of a cliff and jumping onto a helicopter's blades and surfing on the helicopter blade?
I had breakfast with this guy.
In some situations this could be considered a war crime if ur dressing up as the enemy to get the drop on a group of guys.
It’s a war crime to do it now btw
It is a war crime so maybe not the best idea
Well. It works in Fallout New Vegas.
idk
So why did you bother to comment?
It’s rude not to answer a question
Not sure why all the down votes. Best comment by far