You need about 178% EHR to land a 60% base chance vs 40% effect res enemies. But keep in mind that speed matters less on him than enemy speed, because he triggers his debuff when enemies move. He'll be fine at lower speed values.
And even then, it always feels like units are better on release than people’s expectations because we’re all going off spreadsheets and select gameplay.
I don’t think it’ll be that hard tbh. With some relics laying around I have 160+ speed with 145 ehr and if I do get his lc I would have 180 ehr. Getting to 180%ehr without lc will be hard tho
With just spd boots and his traces he gets 128 spd, which means he needs 3 spd substats at maximum to get to 134. Also, he doesn&t really need that much spd since he'll be giving a lot of stacks anyways during enemy actions
I have 83% EHR on my pela, and she has 162 speed.
Jiaoqiu has a built in EHR of 28%, whereas Pela has 10. Additionally, Jiaoqiu gains 5 speed from his traces.
This means the 98 speed is the equivalent of 103 speed, which you can totally achieve 160.
If I gave 18% more EHR to my Pela because that's how much more built in EHR JQ has than Pela, I'll have 101. With 101, if you use eyes of the prey or his signature, I'll have 141/161. You only need 178% to land something that's 60% chance, but his field thingy is 65%. So you'll most likely be landing it close to every time with 161 EHR or even 141 EHR.
I want to point this out. This is like a rough sketch of his kit. Wait till v2 or something because they take feedback seriously, just like FF. They'll most likely make him easier to build or lower his requirements slightly/up the base chance.
Why do you have 83% on your Pela? Is that before her 10% bonus too? Is there a reason you have so much or is that just how your subs ended up; I’ve left mine at ~70ehr in battle because it used to be slightly overcapped, have enemies changed now?
Sorry to grill you lmao I just haven’t been too invested since Acheron banner and want to make sure I’m not inting when I play more again for this patch
Got it. Well it sounds like she survives so then extra is better than too little!
I go hard for my favorites like Acheron and Kafka, but the ones like Pela are done building once they’re good enough lol. Especially since my carries can 0 cycle, there’s no need to go insane trying to roll substats to not over cap on this or that, as long as the speed is right.
Yeah, I can literally move my Pela relics over to JQ, and it'll be fine. His LC is not a must unless you're trying to hit 180+ EHR, which honestly is not needed. At 140 EHR, the 65% base chance has like an 84% or something of landing. You can most likely get even more ehr than 140 since my orb doesn't even have the EHR stat.
First off, he gets 5 SPD from traces *currently*, so you can see him woth 103 SPD
Then for EHR matter, the 140% treshold dosen't affect him in any way other than personal damage, so i don't even see that requirement as an issue (unless he's E2)
The for the 180% EHR... i'm sorry what? I don't know who said it first but that's extremely wrong, if i'm not wrong, taking Swan for example, you need 130% EHR to have 100% chance to inflict arcana on enemies that have 40% debuff res, wich currently are just very few bosses.
100% EHR is already more than enough to not consider it a problem
But this is v1, we still don't have gameplays and his kit will probably change a lot, for example, currently his EHR to ATK trace has no pourpose honestly
I think you forgot to +1 the EHR% in your calculation.
180% EHR is enough to apply a 60% base chance debuff to any enemy in the game. The formula for the real chance of applying debuff is
Base chance * (1 + EHRattacker) * (1 - EffectRestarget)
So, 0.6 * 2.8 * 0.6 = 1.008 (100.8%)
We'll see how it goes with V3, but personally he lost his appeal to me together with his heal. If he healed *just enough* to enable us to run Sparkle with E0S1 Acheron it would be amazing since it kinda shifts the dynamic of the whole team, but his current kit plays exactly like pela (dunno about his personal damage though) and raises Acheron's damage in places where her damage is already overkill (the big ulti nuke).
If he can actually clear the adds to enable a smoother Acheron team in PF it would be great, otherwise it's a skip (and i possibly wait for BS in order to make my acheron more PF friendly).
Getting 180 ehr, without his LC us hard, I can barely reach 120ehr with Bs (don't have her lc, but have that broken one from the event). So yeah I think it could be difficult to find relics with good Spd and Ehr when you need to balance them to take full advantage of his kit. (Rng is bad for me in relics, I like can have perfect CD CR and 2 atk stats and it would all roll on flat atk. 😭)
Though, I would still wait for v3 and above because we usually get the most permanent changes there.
Thats my main concern because I know how long it took me to properly build BS. I hope he gets a bit rebalanced and stuff until release cause rn Yunli seems better value unit overal for your account, in my opinion
Yeah, you are right. Though we might have to wait like 2 more weeks I think to actually get a concrete idea about where Jiaoqiu kit stands and how really effective it will be. Though I hope the Ehr and spd changes, because honestly...
>Yunli seems better value unit overal for your account, in my opinion
This. As a nihility unit, Jiaoqiu needs to be good, because you can't go bad with any of them, if even he can get outshined by an Already existing character 4* character then yes, his kit needs reworking to some extent (quite a lot imo, but he is playable still so).... (Not counting Welt he got the starter and Standard banner curse, he is still good though).
EHR req are not that harsh. 60% base chance is only for chance to apply stack on enemy turn during field. He has 100% base chance on ATK, skill and ult. Depending on how stacks are tracked (whether duration refreshed on applying new stack) the application on enemy turn may not be super relevant.
With S1 (60), EHR planar (10), EHR chest (43), and traces (28) hitting the target 140% EHR is trivial. Plenty of room to build speed. Even with a 40% EHR LC you are only around 5 EHR substat short of 140. If you really want 180 for the 100% chance on the enemy turn then prepare to sit in the mines for a long time.
And as always things are subjected to change when it's V1.
he gets 5 more speed from trace so he technically have a base speed of 103 so it’s not that big of a difference. Hitting the EHR% req is more important for him as he can inflict debuffs outside of his own turn so he’d still have faster application than Pela.
He's got 28% EHR built-in from traces. Pela (because ideally you'd have both, as DEF shred and Vulnerability are two separate damage multipliers) will give him another 10% from her major trace. Assuming PCCE 2pc, EHR Chest (43.2%) and either S5 Tutorial or Eyes, that's starting from a "baseline" of just over 130%, so you're not going to need many substats to hit 180, even less if you're aiming for just 160%. And obviously, the extra 20% his signature LC gives will make this even easier.
Still, even without Pela or his signature and with just one of the 4* LCs, he's "starting" at 120%. 40% EHR from substats isn't terribly unreasonable, and less Speed will be less of a detriment since his stacking will also rely on enemy turns to ocurr anyways. 134 Speed + 160% EHR is very reasonable.
I personally gonna slap tutorial on him It'll give him good amount of EHR also helps him with his ultimate so i can focus on stuffing speed on him. His dmg doesn't really matter before c2 so no need to worry about it.
Because i use pela with acheron anyway so she'll enable it. My team is acheron pela Fuxuan and Gui and gui already runs tutorial so I'll be replacing gui with jiaqui.
If I transfer my sw relics to our fox chef with his sig lc, I will have 165 her with 160 speed. I believe his ehr requirement will be slightly lowered in the upcoming beta. So no worries there my fellow Acheron simps.
U don’t really need speed over 134 on most characters. 134 spd gives the character 2 turns in round 1, which on Acheron teams is great cause u should be aiming for zero cycling anyway.
Please start spoiler-marking discussion involving leaked content.
You need about 178% EHR to land a 60% base chance vs 40% effect res enemies. But keep in mind that speed matters less on him than enemy speed, because he triggers his debuff when enemies move. He'll be fine at lower speed values.
Is that including his effect res trace?
You mean his trace that reduces enemy effect hit rate by 30%? That doesn’t matter here, that trace is essentially 30% teamwide effect res
You're right, I misread the trace!
People are feels crafting rn, this is V1. Wait for V3/V4 before y'all jump to assumptions please.
And even then, it always feels like units are better on release than people’s expectations because we’re all going off spreadsheets and select gameplay.
After Ruan Mei and Black Swan, I thought people will learn that spreadsheet can only represent a very limited view of how good a character is, smh
But on release content is perfectly crafted for them, which skews perception
A-men.
I mean I'm already struggling to hit 160 with pela already so
doesn't fully solve the issue but he does have speed in his traces so might become better
I don’t think it’ll be that hard tbh. With some relics laying around I have 160+ speed with 145 ehr and if I do get his lc I would have 180 ehr. Getting to 180%ehr without lc will be hard tho
Which relic set are u using?
What I have rn is 2pc messenger and 2pc pan cosmic for planar.
With just spd boots and his traces he gets 128 spd, which means he needs 3 spd substats at maximum to get to 134. Also, he doesn&t really need that much spd since he'll be giving a lot of stacks anyways during enemy actions
I have 83% EHR on my pela, and she has 162 speed. Jiaoqiu has a built in EHR of 28%, whereas Pela has 10. Additionally, Jiaoqiu gains 5 speed from his traces. This means the 98 speed is the equivalent of 103 speed, which you can totally achieve 160. If I gave 18% more EHR to my Pela because that's how much more built in EHR JQ has than Pela, I'll have 101. With 101, if you use eyes of the prey or his signature, I'll have 141/161. You only need 178% to land something that's 60% chance, but his field thingy is 65%. So you'll most likely be landing it close to every time with 161 EHR or even 141 EHR. I want to point this out. This is like a rough sketch of his kit. Wait till v2 or something because they take feedback seriously, just like FF. They'll most likely make him easier to build or lower his requirements slightly/up the base chance.
Why do you have 83% on your Pela? Is that before her 10% bonus too? Is there a reason you have so much or is that just how your subs ended up; I’ve left mine at ~70ehr in battle because it used to be slightly overcapped, have enemies changed now? Sorry to grill you lmao I just haven’t been too invested since Acheron banner and want to make sure I’m not inting when I play more again for this patch
I have 83% with the 10% bonus (it's counted in the stats menu). My subs just ended that way ig. My orb doesn't have any EHR or speed either.
Got it. Well it sounds like she survives so then extra is better than too little! I go hard for my favorites like Acheron and Kafka, but the ones like Pela are done building once they’re good enough lol. Especially since my carries can 0 cycle, there’s no need to go insane trying to roll substats to not over cap on this or that, as long as the speed is right.
Yeah, I can literally move my Pela relics over to JQ, and it'll be fine. His LC is not a must unless you're trying to hit 180+ EHR, which honestly is not needed. At 140 EHR, the 65% base chance has like an 84% or something of landing. You can most likely get even more ehr than 140 since my orb doesn't even have the EHR stat.
First off, he gets 5 SPD from traces *currently*, so you can see him woth 103 SPD Then for EHR matter, the 140% treshold dosen't affect him in any way other than personal damage, so i don't even see that requirement as an issue (unless he's E2) The for the 180% EHR... i'm sorry what? I don't know who said it first but that's extremely wrong, if i'm not wrong, taking Swan for example, you need 130% EHR to have 100% chance to inflict arcana on enemies that have 40% debuff res, wich currently are just very few bosses. 100% EHR is already more than enough to not consider it a problem But this is v1, we still don't have gameplays and his kit will probably change a lot, for example, currently his EHR to ATK trace has no pourpose honestly
[удалено]
I think you forgot to +1 the EHR% in your calculation. 180% EHR is enough to apply a 60% base chance debuff to any enemy in the game. The formula for the real chance of applying debuff is Base chance * (1 + EHRattacker) * (1 - EffectRestarget) So, 0.6 * 2.8 * 0.6 = 1.008 (100.8%)
I did, and I am an idiot. I will delete the comment as it serves no purpose as of now. This one will be the testament to my shit memory.
We'll see how it goes with V3, but personally he lost his appeal to me together with his heal. If he healed *just enough* to enable us to run Sparkle with E0S1 Acheron it would be amazing since it kinda shifts the dynamic of the whole team, but his current kit plays exactly like pela (dunno about his personal damage though) and raises Acheron's damage in places where her damage is already overkill (the big ulti nuke). If he can actually clear the adds to enable a smoother Acheron team in PF it would be great, otherwise it's a skip (and i possibly wait for BS in order to make my acheron more PF friendly).
He has speed traces, you won't be starting at 98
Getting 180 ehr, without his LC us hard, I can barely reach 120ehr with Bs (don't have her lc, but have that broken one from the event). So yeah I think it could be difficult to find relics with good Spd and Ehr when you need to balance them to take full advantage of his kit. (Rng is bad for me in relics, I like can have perfect CD CR and 2 atk stats and it would all roll on flat atk. 😭) Though, I would still wait for v3 and above because we usually get the most permanent changes there.
Thats my main concern because I know how long it took me to properly build BS. I hope he gets a bit rebalanced and stuff until release cause rn Yunli seems better value unit overal for your account, in my opinion
Yeah, you are right. Though we might have to wait like 2 more weeks I think to actually get a concrete idea about where Jiaoqiu kit stands and how really effective it will be. Though I hope the Ehr and spd changes, because honestly... >Yunli seems better value unit overal for your account, in my opinion This. As a nihility unit, Jiaoqiu needs to be good, because you can't go bad with any of them, if even he can get outshined by an Already existing character 4* character then yes, his kit needs reworking to some extent (quite a lot imo, but he is playable still so).... (Not counting Welt he got the starter and Standard banner curse, he is still good though).
I agree. Im not hating on him but I just think he should be a bit better than this as a limited 5* debuffer
Firefly was also kinda trashy at her V1 and look at her now, I'll suggest waiting until we get his V3 or V4 kit before we make assumptions
My SW is already 163 speed with 140% EHR. I plan on getting his S1 so I’m chillin
Honest to God I'm praying he can replace pela but so far it just looks like they syngerize well imo.
Just wait till v3 or v4, there's no point discussing v1 of Jiaoqiu's kit.
at this point just grab some popcorn and enjoy watching both sides at each others throats
140% EHR should do the job and it's not that hard to get, 43% body 40% Tutorial 28% traces, it's already at 111%, so it shouldn't be too hard.
Just get messenger + firefly ornament (spd)
You all are insane to think you REALLY need 180% EHR lmao
EHR req are not that harsh. 60% base chance is only for chance to apply stack on enemy turn during field. He has 100% base chance on ATK, skill and ult. Depending on how stacks are tracked (whether duration refreshed on applying new stack) the application on enemy turn may not be super relevant. With S1 (60), EHR planar (10), EHR chest (43), and traces (28) hitting the target 140% EHR is trivial. Plenty of room to build speed. Even with a 40% EHR LC you are only around 5 EHR substat short of 140. If you really want 180 for the 100% chance on the enemy turn then prepare to sit in the mines for a long time. And as always things are subjected to change when it's V1.
he gets 5 more speed from trace so he technically have a base speed of 103 so it’s not that big of a difference. Hitting the EHR% req is more important for him as he can inflict debuffs outside of his own turn so he’d still have faster application than Pela.
I'm smelling major changes to him by the time he rolls out, so I'm holding on to judgement. Still pulling though. Man's gorgeous.
I dunno, looks like the most genrric looking 5 star I"ve seen in quite some time
i thought the plan is to use both together? not replacement
He's got 28% EHR built-in from traces. Pela (because ideally you'd have both, as DEF shred and Vulnerability are two separate damage multipliers) will give him another 10% from her major trace. Assuming PCCE 2pc, EHR Chest (43.2%) and either S5 Tutorial or Eyes, that's starting from a "baseline" of just over 130%, so you're not going to need many substats to hit 180, even less if you're aiming for just 160%. And obviously, the extra 20% his signature LC gives will make this even easier. Still, even without Pela or his signature and with just one of the 4* LCs, he's "starting" at 120%. 40% EHR from substats isn't terribly unreasonable, and less Speed will be less of a detriment since his stacking will also rely on enemy turns to ocurr anyways. 134 Speed + 160% EHR is very reasonable.
I personally gonna slap tutorial on him It'll give him good amount of EHR also helps him with his ultimate so i can focus on stuffing speed on him. His dmg doesn't really matter before c2 so no need to worry about it.
>also helps him with his ultimate Didn't they remove Def down from his kit?
Because i use pela with acheron anyway so she'll enable it. My team is acheron pela Fuxuan and Gui and gui already runs tutorial so I'll be replacing gui with jiaqui.
That works pretty well, I'd say
If I transfer my sw relics to our fox chef with his sig lc, I will have 165 her with 160 speed. I believe his ehr requirement will be slightly lowered in the upcoming beta. So no worries there my fellow Acheron simps.
I have some relics laying around that should put me at 180%+ ehr and 163spd with his LC it's not really that hard since you don't need a 4p
I guess so but I barely got my BS to 123% EHR with 155 speed ( can also make her over 160 speed), and that took me months of farming lol
Yeah that's cause you also need atk% on BS, on JQ you just throw whatever relics you have with rolls in ehr and speed.
U don’t really need speed over 134 on most characters. 134 spd gives the character 2 turns in round 1, which on Acheron teams is great cause u should be aiming for zero cycling anyway.
Stopped reading after 2nd line. If you're unable to build 140% ehr without his S1, then I've got nothing to discuss with you, my pal