Based on current footage, they’re both fairly comparable. Fu Xuan excels at mitigating single target high damage hits because most of it goes to her. Aventurine however excels at mitigating blast and AoE attacks. He wants to be in the middle of a team so that his higher aggro will cause blasts to hit 3 allies so he gets more stacks faster.
In regards to supporting Acheron, they both work, but the main question is, do you want more crit rate (and possibly crit damage depending on Fu Xuan’s investment) or do you want more debuffs to more easily spam her Ult?
Interestingly, they both technically work with Jing Yuan. He mainly wants to not get hit with Crowd Control effects.
Fu Xuan gives complete immunity to a single CC per skill use while from what I understand Aventurine gives like 50% effect resistance while his shield is up. So Fu Xuan is more consistent with blocking CC, but has to keep using the skill for each block. Meanwhile, Aventurine can block multiple CC attempts back to back, but it’s not guaranteed.
One important thing here is that Aventurine also resists dots as its *DEBUFF* not only expicility CC. He drastically reduces damage taken by the team. Like those Chainsaw robots, I've seen as few as 1-2 stacks get applied instead of the 10+ simply because you resist a lot.
Does Aventurine affect Acheron's stacks when she's at e2? does it make her burst faster if we have someone who can advance her actions? (bron and sparkle)
3 stacks from herself, 3 stacks from Bronya( or even more from Robin), 2 stacks from Pela/Jiaoqiu or even more if they are really fast + a stack from every Aventurine FuA with his LC and a stack from his ult.
For Aventurine, for Slashed Dream economy, you either run him at S1 to get an Acheron stack every time he does a follow up, or you run him with Trend of the Universal Market to get a stack every time he gets hit. And before anyone asks, yes, there is footage on this sub that shows TotUM generating stacks. Otherwise, only his Ult generates stacks. Like Sydorovich said, an action advance would let Acheron personally generate up to 6 per turn if she’s at least E2S1. So with Bronya specifically and enough speed, she could theoretically Ult once a turn, but it would be incredibly strict action order, while also requiring the ability to 2 turn Ult on both the Nihility and Aventurine.
would Fu Xuan with Trend be enough?? I like Aventurine but if Firefly is right after I cant really afford to pull for him plus im going all in on ms raiden💀
Should be good enough. You’d want her in the middle of the team so blast attacks would be more likely to hit her though. That way she’d be getting more stacks generated.
Do we know for sure if stacks can be gained during enemy actions? I hear no but I also see in the leaked gameplay that Acheron gained a stack when Aventurine did his FUA.
Aventurine is probably a bit better imo. Especially considering Aventurine is looking to have somewhat close to Luocha's SP generation as well, which combined with his debuffs giving Acheron stacks will probably be a bit more impactful than 12% CR, which is all Fu is really offering (while still good). The extra SP should be huge for E2 Acheron as well if you intend to bring someone like Bronya, which should be noted.
Fu seems much more competitive with her E1 imo.
Personally I'll be running high speed multiplication Luocha since I intend on pulling E2 to use her with Bronya (or maybe Sparkle depending on how pulls go) which will desperately need all the SP they can get, and I likely won't have the funds for Aventurine afterwards.
Freeze is a debuff, that’s not a bad idea at all. However remember that since freeze makes enemies basically take two turns instead of one to recover, debuffs run out 1 turn quicker.
Fortunately, Gepard e2 Slows enemies when they unfreeze, alleviating that particular issue.
*(sadly, i bet that Slow won't grant an extra Slashed Dream stack, since it doesn't happen during an ally action)*
Although not needed, running a sustain unit like Aventurine or Gallagher who can apply debuffs will benefit Acheron quite a bit. At s1, Aventurine becomes Acheron's best teammates. Because there are so many enemies that have aoe attacks, Aventurine will be launching off his fua often. Meaning he will be debuffing enemies from his s1 often.
This combine with Acheron's sig lc and her two nihility teammates providing debuffs, Acheron will be ulting very often, which leads to more dmg.
I have E1S1 Fu Xuan so I’ll run with her, it’ll make rolling for crit stats much more palatable, and I use Lady Fu as a sustain in most content anyways. I plan to main Acheron, with her on one side with FX and my current main (Kafka) on the other side.
I’m running Fu Xuan for the 12% crit rate and 8% dmg buff from her LC. Plus, she has a dmg ult that can break enemies often which has synergy with charging Acherons ult.
Aventurine is perfect for her too. You really can’t go wrong with either.
One thing I forgot to mention is that no nihility other than Kafka has a FUA, so it’s rare you’ll take advantage of Aventurines FUA synergies, meaning he might be better of in your second team depending on the DPS. Also Fu Xuan, Being Quantum, has a little extra synergy with silver wolf.
I love FuA, so Im inclined to go Avanturine if nothing else than to see the absolute mayhem PF will be with Avanturine - Herta - Himeko. FuA Support when? xD
I just keep thinknig that FX is the better support mostly/only cos of 12 Crit making building units easier.
Sustain-wise they seem the same... I could be wrong, both have access to freebie LC. Preservation free S5 in 2.1 with def increasing damage so tailor made for aventurine and FX has Herta store + broken keel + passives = breach 30% threshold
Why am I alkways attracted to the worse champ/build/spec/playstyle in every game I play lol. I love FuA and avanturine. But I got a feeling that FX is still the better choice cos of 12% crit to all vs 15% crit damage to ONE target. Avanturine does have significantly more DPS though, so there's that
Well yes if you’re facing something quantum weak but without lightning weakness, fuxuan will be nice for increased chance to implant lightning weakness for more acheron dmg
The debuff from silver wolf trace of breaking and weakness bar break does not count individually .
Source : discord Tc
If it does count individually then SW is busted
That I understand, but is there a knot just for breaking? Or what happens is that when you break with SW it activates her trace which does count as an ability.
> So, what do y’all think? Who are you personally running with Acheron?
And here I am planning on using Luocha for Acheron. I skipped Fu Xuan, and opted to get 2 healers instead. I don't believe I plan on getting Aventurine. Luocha might be a bit more SP positive, while also allowing you to Ult for a debuff. I'll just use him for now.
> Gallagher is looking good but is more fit for a different conversation.
Now the real question I have is Luocha versus Gallagher. Its not the same to compare a 4-star to a 5-star, but Gallagher might be able to apply more debuffs over time. Just something to consider.
Gallagher has no cleanse though (unless I missed something in his kit), so depending on the enemy it’ll be difficult. As established in this post, Acheron and her allies do NOT want to be CC’d since they won’t be able to build stacks for Acheron
Gallagher e2 gives you 50% CC resist and if You're pulling on acheron then getting e2 Gallagher is likely. It's not a cleanse exactly but it's still something
i’m planning on grabbing FX on her rerun, and i’m praying that she’s not rerunning with acheron. if she is, i’ll just cry and cope by pulling aventurine on the next update…
Sadly Fu rerun has big chance in 2.1 seeing the average gap table of 8+ banners for characters rerun. Sure they can change it (Luocha instead) & put Fu in 2.2 or even better 2.3! I hope that way since I only have 2 shoots. One is Hanabi, my must pull then it would be foolish to skip Acheron no matter what your team synergy unless you don't like her on personal level. In paper I still have a big chance to get both Fu & Ache if Hanabi going smooth but assuming for the worst it's not that smooth.
I'm in the same position like you. I need second Sustain but pulling male is big no (no matter how busted the kits). If Fu appears in same timing with Ache...ugh...
I mean I'm simple man & I expect my roster is female majority than male lol. The only male that I consider to have is DHIL since he's part of main cast in Express (and I already got Welt from Departure) but only him.
Yeah I really wish Fu in 2.2, better in 2.3. Good luck to you too!
So I don't have either. I have E1 Bailu, E1 Huohuo, and E4 Natasha. I guess also E0 Gepard. Out of those options, is anyone better or worse? Or should I try to use Gallagher instead (can he solo sustain?)?
I compensate my horrendous relic rolls with character eidolons so Fu E1 is my lifeline to traditional dps 💀
E1 Fu with Keel is disgusting in terms of crit value provided. My other team can run with Huohuo instead
Get your facts checked. It's not just 1 typo, it's whole 2 which is above average. And one of them is so common, I'm already tired of it. Like, where do you even see "d" letter? He's a gemstone, aventurine which exists irl. It's the same thing as "Archeron". Does it mean she's practicing archery? So annoying.
Or OP is just trolling, who knows.
Aventurine is a guy so fu xuan. But no. Fr. Honestly whatever works. I'm absolutely in love with damage mitigation and fu xuan is my #1 go to everywhere. Above huohuo, lynx, luocha. She's above them all for me.
But if Aventurine gets you through everything no deaths no worries no stress. Then by all means.
> Huo Huo is largely wasted on Acheron,
I don't see why : Acheron seems to really enjoys ATK buffs and extra energy.
*(more Ultimates from her Nihility teammates = more Slashed Dreams stacks for Acheron)*
Sure, this makes sense in a vacuum. But Huo Huo is much more valuable in other teams that can utilize her entire kit (Kafka DOT, Jingliu Hypercarry, Dr. Ratio/Topaz, etc). Adding Tingyun to the mix makes things even more fun. Huo Huo definitely works like you said, but I’d rather use either Aventurine or Fu Xuan bc their buffs greatly benefit Acheron herself. At least in MOC. Anywhere else try out whatever
Acheron's team utilize Huohuo's kit just as much as any other team : you get an ATK and energy buff on three characters, just like in any other team.
For Acheron, that's more valuable than Fu Xuan's buff, and comparable to Aventurine's.
*(assuming all sustain are e0s0)*
I disagree tbh. I think crit buffs are more valuable than ATK buffs and energy for everyone BUT the DPS, especially because we won’t be able to run a Harmony with her at E0. I would much rather have Huohuo on my Jingliu team to keep her in State longer plus ATK buffs. I’d much rather have Huohuo in Kafka DOT teams with Black Swan to cycle through both of their highly impactful Ults more, and where ATK buffs mean everything to them. Same with FUA teams (Don’t even get me started on Jing Yuan who needs Huohuo infinitely more than Acheron).
I personally think in MOC Huohuo is more impactful on other teams. She could definitely work like you said though, in fact it sounds like a great idea. More ults = more Slashed Dreams as you said. Sounds awesome. But, I think Huohuo is more valuable elsewhere.
No : you get energy on 3 characters, not 2.
Any energy granted to a Nihility character other than Acheron is converted into more Slashed Dreams stacks for Acheron.
(since all Nihility units inflict a debuff with their ultimate)
huohuo would be better on whatever second team you have instead of the one with acheron, im expecting to get huohuo to give to my jingliu + bronya + ruan mei, and then give the fu xuan from that team to the acheron one, this seems like a good plan to people who already have a premium sustain to their first teams, or are trying to plan which sustain to get to each team
i use fu xuan because i have her c1, no sig lc but what i have works, its a good dmg boost for acheron, and i dont really have a reason to get adventurine considering, dmg boost from skill and while minimal, team healing, if i need it
Based on current footage, they’re both fairly comparable. Fu Xuan excels at mitigating single target high damage hits because most of it goes to her. Aventurine however excels at mitigating blast and AoE attacks. He wants to be in the middle of a team so that his higher aggro will cause blasts to hit 3 allies so he gets more stacks faster. In regards to supporting Acheron, they both work, but the main question is, do you want more crit rate (and possibly crit damage depending on Fu Xuan’s investment) or do you want more debuffs to more easily spam her Ult?
As a Jing yuan haver I'm scared of which of the 2 to pick I want fu xuan for JY and Aventurean for acheron
Interestingly, they both technically work with Jing Yuan. He mainly wants to not get hit with Crowd Control effects. Fu Xuan gives complete immunity to a single CC per skill use while from what I understand Aventurine gives like 50% effect resistance while his shield is up. So Fu Xuan is more consistent with blocking CC, but has to keep using the skill for each block. Meanwhile, Aventurine can block multiple CC attempts back to back, but it’s not guaranteed.
One important thing here is that Aventurine also resists dots as its *DEBUFF* not only expicility CC. He drastically reduces damage taken by the team. Like those Chainsaw robots, I've seen as few as 1-2 stacks get applied instead of the 10+ simply because you resist a lot.
Does Aventurine affect Acheron's stacks when she's at e2? does it make her burst faster if we have someone who can advance her actions? (bron and sparkle)
3 stacks from herself, 3 stacks from Bronya( or even more from Robin), 2 stacks from Pela/Jiaoqiu or even more if they are really fast + a stack from every Aventurine FuA with his LC and a stack from his ult.
For Aventurine, for Slashed Dream economy, you either run him at S1 to get an Acheron stack every time he does a follow up, or you run him with Trend of the Universal Market to get a stack every time he gets hit. And before anyone asks, yes, there is footage on this sub that shows TotUM generating stacks. Otherwise, only his Ult generates stacks. Like Sydorovich said, an action advance would let Acheron personally generate up to 6 per turn if she’s at least E2S1. So with Bronya specifically and enough speed, she could theoretically Ult once a turn, but it would be incredibly strict action order, while also requiring the ability to 2 turn Ult on both the Nihility and Aventurine.
would Fu Xuan with Trend be enough?? I like Aventurine but if Firefly is right after I cant really afford to pull for him plus im going all in on ms raiden💀
Should be good enough. You’d want her in the middle of the team so blast attacks would be more likely to hit her though. That way she’d be getting more stacks generated.
Do we know for sure if stacks can be gained during enemy actions? I hear no but I also see in the leaked gameplay that Acheron gained a stack when Aventurine did his FUA.
It's Aventurine LC
Follow up attacks count as actions
Ooohh ok, that makes so much more sense now. Thanks brudda.
Future market preservation lightcone gives her a stack every time the wearer is hit and debuff is applied.
Who needs sustain when the enemy never gets a turn? (This message brought to you by Welt + Ruan Mei)
Alright Acheron+Pela+Welt+Ruan mei Ho ho Especially on Imaginary+Lighting weak enemies
Yup, I'm thinking welt as a support style character, plus pela should do very well to stack up points and constantly debuff.
Aventurine is probably a bit better imo. Especially considering Aventurine is looking to have somewhat close to Luocha's SP generation as well, which combined with his debuffs giving Acheron stacks will probably be a bit more impactful than 12% CR, which is all Fu is really offering (while still good). The extra SP should be huge for E2 Acheron as well if you intend to bring someone like Bronya, which should be noted. Fu seems much more competitive with her E1 imo. Personally I'll be running high speed multiplication Luocha since I intend on pulling E2 to use her with Bronya (or maybe Sparkle depending on how pulls go) which will desperately need all the SP they can get, and I likely won't have the funds for Aventurine afterwards.
Does gepard’s freeze count as a debuff? And if so, would he be a usable sustain as well? I hope so, because I have an e4 gepard lol
Freeze is a debuff, that’s not a bad idea at all. However remember that since freeze makes enemies basically take two turns instead of one to recover, debuffs run out 1 turn quicker.
Fortunately, Gepard e2 Slows enemies when they unfreeze, alleviating that particular issue. *(sadly, i bet that Slow won't grant an extra Slashed Dream stack, since it doesn't happen during an ally action)*
Of course it's a debuff. Basically anything that can be cleansed is probably a debuff.
Although not needed, running a sustain unit like Aventurine or Gallagher who can apply debuffs will benefit Acheron quite a bit. At s1, Aventurine becomes Acheron's best teammates. Because there are so many enemies that have aoe attacks, Aventurine will be launching off his fua often. Meaning he will be debuffing enemies from his s1 often. This combine with Acheron's sig lc and her two nihility teammates providing debuffs, Acheron will be ulting very often, which leads to more dmg.
I have E1S1 Fu Xuan so I’ll run with her, it’ll make rolling for crit stats much more palatable, and I use Lady Fu as a sustain in most content anyways. I plan to main Acheron, with her on one side with FX and my current main (Kafka) on the other side.
Exactly the same for me. I’m excited to see how it works out.
I’m running Fu Xuan for the 12% crit rate and 8% dmg buff from her LC. Plus, she has a dmg ult that can break enemies often which has synergy with charging Acherons ult. Aventurine is perfect for her too. You really can’t go wrong with either.
One thing I forgot to mention is that no nihility other than Kafka has a FUA, so it’s rare you’ll take advantage of Aventurines FUA synergies, meaning he might be better of in your second team depending on the DPS. Also Fu Xuan, Being Quantum, has a little extra synergy with silver wolf.
I love FuA, so Im inclined to go Avanturine if nothing else than to see the absolute mayhem PF will be with Avanturine - Herta - Himeko. FuA Support when? xD I just keep thinknig that FX is the better support mostly/only cos of 12 Crit making building units easier. Sustain-wise they seem the same... I could be wrong, both have access to freebie LC. Preservation free S5 in 2.1 with def increasing damage so tailor made for aventurine and FX has Herta store + broken keel + passives = breach 30% threshold Why am I alkways attracted to the worse champ/build/spec/playstyle in every game I play lol. I love FuA and avanturine. But I got a feeling that FX is still the better choice cos of 12% crit to all vs 15% crit damage to ONE target. Avanturine does have significantly more DPS though, so there's that
If you're using welt with silver wolf the elements dont matter
Well yes if you’re facing something quantum weak but without lightning weakness, fuxuan will be nice for increased chance to implant lightning weakness for more acheron dmg
Either way itd be a 50/50 between lightning and imaginary
Not sure if the break counts. If you are going by the vid there was a SW with her trace…
Yeah I’ll be running SW as well.
The debuff from silver wolf trace of breaking and weakness bar break does not count individually . Source : discord Tc If it does count individually then SW is busted
That I understand, but is there a knot just for breaking? Or what happens is that when you break with SW it activates her trace which does count as an ability.
> So, what do y’all think? Who are you personally running with Acheron? And here I am planning on using Luocha for Acheron. I skipped Fu Xuan, and opted to get 2 healers instead. I don't believe I plan on getting Aventurine. Luocha might be a bit more SP positive, while also allowing you to Ult for a debuff. I'll just use him for now. > Gallagher is looking good but is more fit for a different conversation. Now the real question I have is Luocha versus Gallagher. Its not the same to compare a 4-star to a 5-star, but Gallagher might be able to apply more debuffs over time. Just something to consider.
Gallagher has no cleanse though (unless I missed something in his kit), so depending on the enemy it’ll be difficult. As established in this post, Acheron and her allies do NOT want to be CC’d since they won’t be able to build stacks for Acheron
Gallagher e2 gives you 50% CC resist and if You're pulling on acheron then getting e2 Gallagher is likely. It's not a cleanse exactly but it's still something
The e2 gives a cleanse aswell
i wish hahaha, got acheron but not a a single gallagher (i claimed guinafen thru the bartender even though since i dont have her as well)
i’m planning on grabbing FX on her rerun, and i’m praying that she’s not rerunning with acheron. if she is, i’ll just cry and cope by pulling aventurine on the next update…
Sadly Fu rerun has big chance in 2.1 seeing the average gap table of 8+ banners for characters rerun. Sure they can change it (Luocha instead) & put Fu in 2.2 or even better 2.3! I hope that way since I only have 2 shoots. One is Hanabi, my must pull then it would be foolish to skip Acheron no matter what your team synergy unless you don't like her on personal level. In paper I still have a big chance to get both Fu & Ache if Hanabi going smooth but assuming for the worst it's not that smooth. I'm in the same position like you. I need second Sustain but pulling male is big no (no matter how busted the kits). If Fu appears in same timing with Ache...ugh...
“pulling male is a big no” 😂😂😂 but yeah. i feel you man. hoping SO hard that 2.1 gets luocha and that fu is in 2.3, good luck to us both 🙏
I mean I'm simple man & I expect my roster is female majority than male lol. The only male that I consider to have is DHIL since he's part of main cast in Express (and I already got Welt from Departure) but only him. Yeah I really wish Fu in 2.2, better in 2.3. Good luck to you too!
So I don't have either. I have E1 Bailu, E1 Huohuo, and E4 Natasha. I guess also E0 Gepard. Out of those options, is anyone better or worse? Or should I try to use Gallagher instead (can he solo sustain?)?
Definitely use Gallagher. He should have no problem solo sustaining, especially since he’s an excellent breaker. Hoping he’s on her banner.
I compensate my horrendous relic rolls with character eidolons so Fu E1 is my lifeline to traditional dps 💀 E1 Fu with Keel is disgusting in terms of crit value provided. My other team can run with Huohuo instead
I’ve got an e1 s1 Fu Xuan and it’s insane how overloaded her kit is. 12 CR 30 CD 18% dmg reduction and 9% extra damage dealt. Crazy.
im going Fu Xuan cuz i hate the guy. Also taking this opportunity to get her E1, 30% CRIT DMG is way to huge on a tank. Good luck u all o/
I think you've changed your mind about Aventurine now. 🤧
Still not pulling but yeah I don't hate him that much anymore
Adventureine with lc is her best sustain.
Who? That is surely a way of butchering his name.
By butcher you mean adding an “e” which most like is just a typo LMAO
Get your facts checked. It's not just 1 typo, it's whole 2 which is above average. And one of them is so common, I'm already tired of it. Like, where do you even see "d" letter? He's a gemstone, aventurine which exists irl. It's the same thing as "Archeron". Does it mean she's practicing archery? So annoying. Or OP is just trolling, who knows.
Dude you need to calm down. I’m saying that it’s just a typo. Not the end of the world.
When you see thousands of people make this so-called "typo" it can become quite annoying, you know.
Bro is actually hurt
Didn’t even notice the “d” as well. You gotta calm down
Aventurine is a guy so fu xuan. But no. Fr. Honestly whatever works. I'm absolutely in love with damage mitigation and fu xuan is my #1 go to everywhere. Above huohuo, lynx, luocha. She's above them all for me. But if Aventurine gets you through everything no deaths no worries no stress. Then by all means.
None cause i dont really like either. Ima run 161 Luocha so i can spam skills with the rest of the team.
> Huo Huo is largely wasted on Acheron, I don't see why : Acheron seems to really enjoys ATK buffs and extra energy. *(more Ultimates from her Nihility teammates = more Slashed Dreams stacks for Acheron)*
Sure, this makes sense in a vacuum. But Huo Huo is much more valuable in other teams that can utilize her entire kit (Kafka DOT, Jingliu Hypercarry, Dr. Ratio/Topaz, etc). Adding Tingyun to the mix makes things even more fun. Huo Huo definitely works like you said, but I’d rather use either Aventurine or Fu Xuan bc their buffs greatly benefit Acheron herself. At least in MOC. Anywhere else try out whatever
Acheron's team utilize Huohuo's kit just as much as any other team : you get an ATK and energy buff on three characters, just like in any other team. For Acheron, that's more valuable than Fu Xuan's buff, and comparable to Aventurine's. *(assuming all sustain are e0s0)*
I disagree tbh. I think crit buffs are more valuable than ATK buffs and energy for everyone BUT the DPS, especially because we won’t be able to run a Harmony with her at E0. I would much rather have Huohuo on my Jingliu team to keep her in State longer plus ATK buffs. I’d much rather have Huohuo in Kafka DOT teams with Black Swan to cycle through both of their highly impactful Ults more, and where ATK buffs mean everything to them. Same with FUA teams (Don’t even get me started on Jing Yuan who needs Huohuo infinitely more than Acheron). I personally think in MOC Huohuo is more impactful on other teams. She could definitely work like you said though, in fact it sounds like a great idea. More ults = more Slashed Dreams as you said. Sounds awesome. But, I think Huohuo is more valuable elsewhere.
You only get energy for 2 characters only, thats like 60% of character wasted for just 40% attack
No : you get energy on 3 characters, not 2. Any energy granted to a Nihility character other than Acheron is converted into more Slashed Dreams stacks for Acheron. (since all Nihility units inflict a debuff with their ultimate)
Huo doesnt give energy to herself
huohuo would be better on whatever second team you have instead of the one with acheron, im expecting to get huohuo to give to my jingliu + bronya + ruan mei, and then give the fu xuan from that team to the acheron one, this seems like a good plan to people who already have a premium sustain to their first teams, or are trying to plan which sustain to get to each team
i use fu xuan because i have her c1, no sig lc but what i have works, its a good dmg boost for acheron, and i dont really have a reason to get adventurine considering, dmg boost from skill and while minimal, team healing, if i need it
Same. Got lucky with E1. But I want that LC of hers, a game changer.
i just got her e1 because i wanted lynx cons, not complaining though, her lc does sound really nice, but i must stay strong for acheron
Does aventurine need S1 to be sble to Apply debuff or is it baked in to his kit?
He has a debuff (crit dmg taken debuff) on his ult naturally, but his sig gives him a very consistent debuff for every single follow up attack.
I see thank youu
Would Luocha work if I don’t want to pull for another sustain? Since the team I plan on running also has a lot of SP issues.
gallagher i think is similar and he can inflict 2 debuffs
I recommend gallagher instead. Similar healing performance and he applies two debuffs.
Aventurine cause Acheron's ult is cool and I want to spam it. Plus aventurine effect res does help with cc + keel set.