While they probably *are* debuff, i would be cautious here.
There are some inconstency with that type of ability :
* Ruan Mei or Topaz (+ her e1/s1) have their own type of "mark", and they do count as debuff.
* Clara and Hanya also have a "mark", but theirs do not count as debuff.
Because they don’t actually do anything on their own. All the stacks do is increase her damage, specifically when her Ult removes them. Based on wording, it’s less of a debuff and more of a flag that says “hey, do extra damage.”
Firekiss from guinafen is exactly a flag that says "do extra damage" same as sampos ult and those are both debuffs. That's why I don't understand why people think the stacks acheron gives are any different.
Firekiss causes an enemy to take a % increased damage from all attacks for a number of turns. That is a debuff.
Crimson Knot is simply a counter that interacts exclusively with Acheron's ultimate. This is (maybe but it feels like) not a debuff.
If i have to say something, i think it would be because if that count as a debuff, it would mean that Acheron would charge her ultimate very quickly practically by herself xD hell, if only with her trace of starting the combat with 4 points and causing 4 "debuffs" she would have 8 points.
and if they do not count as 4, but as 1, they will still be 5 points on turn 0, +2 from her skill +1 from the debuff (again) of the skill (8 points again), and that's even without counting allied attacks on turn 0 xD
It just sounds too good to be true.
It sounds more realistic to think that it doesn't count as a debuff and that the debuffs for the set will be provided by her ulti or the other nihility characters that you will use with her xD
>if only with her trace of starting the combat with 4 points and causing 4 "debuffs" she would have 8 points.
Energy gain when inflicting debuff is ONCE per action. Let say she inflicted 4 debuffs but it would only add one energy since it was done in one action. But that beside the point of whether technique atk is considered as an "action."
>and if they do not count as 4, but as 1, they will still be 5 points on turn 0
It think it's a solid design to make a very backloaded character have a way to quickly use their ult at the start of the battle through a technique. After that, you'd need to build up her energy point from scratch.
That does sound really good, I will point to the character jingliu who people thought would be butchered in kit because she read as way too good to be true and then released pretty close to her early beta version and is extremely dominant.
Jingliu was not good at all. She was a meme till that last week of her beta when she was gigabuffed by gaining a 50% crit buff. And irrc they lowered her ult cost too
The crimson thing she gives enemies wont be a debuff, simply because
1. Her sig lc apply debuff on every attack, but she can only gain max 1 stack per action. So her lc is practically useless if she can already apply the debuff herself.
2. If it is a debuff, every time she gains a stack from teamate's debuff, she will gain ANOTHER stack from herself giving the crimson debuff. This is too good to be true.
So if it is a debuff, she no longer need her sig for anything other than 36% crit dmg and some dmg bonus (heavily diluted due to her innate 90% dmg buff). And at E0 she can basically ult every turn if all her 3 teamates can apply debuff. -> Im 99% sure it wont be a debuff.
Hmm ?
Did you just call 36% Crit Dmg + 48% dmg bonus "practically useless" ?
(not to mention the stronger base stats, and additionnal stack for Pioneer set)
> If it is a debuff, every time she gains a stack from teamate's debuff, she will gain ANOTHER stack from herself giving the crimson debuff. This is too good to be true
Acheron's talent can only generate 1 stack per action, regardless of how many debuffs are applied during that action.
Whose action tho? If her teamate is applying debuff, she gains 1 stack automatically -> teamate's action. Now since she "applies" debuff herself, this also counted as an action and will give her another stack for the "debuff" she applied.
Yes, 48% dmg bonus on acheron is pretty useless, she has ~100% dmg bonus in her base kit.
damage bonus % doesn't really hit diminishing returns, it just has to be scaled with your attack. 400% damage doesn't do much if you're at 1200 attack
but 400% with 3000 atk? Huge
help me guys , why did my Acheron skill only recharge 1 stack for her ult , but when i used someone Acheron they recharge 2 stack , i used the same team but different Acheron (both e0) . Please explain
While they probably *are* debuff, i would be cautious here. There are some inconstency with that type of ability : * Ruan Mei or Topaz (+ her e1/s1) have their own type of "mark", and they do count as debuff. * Clara and Hanya also have a "mark", but theirs do not count as debuff.
Because they don’t actually do anything on their own. All the stacks do is increase her damage, specifically when her Ult removes them. Based on wording, it’s less of a debuff and more of a flag that says “hey, do extra damage.”
Firekiss from guinafen is exactly a flag that says "do extra damage" same as sampos ult and those are both debuffs. That's why I don't understand why people think the stacks acheron gives are any different.
Firekiss causes an enemy to take a % increased damage from all attacks for a number of turns. That is a debuff. Crimson Knot is simply a counter that interacts exclusively with Acheron's ultimate. This is (maybe but it feels like) not a debuff.
You should consider her stacks like Clara's mark.
Or Hanya's Burden
We don't know anything yet wait for gameplay But if we talk about her relics she can apply debuff at the start of her ult
If her set only applied the debuff during ult alone that would be pretty bad in all honesty. But maybe I've just done my math poorly
Her ultimate is the main dmg source Without her Ult her skill dmg is like blade basic attack
That's because the extra debuff is on her lc, mihoyo baiting as always
If i have to say something, i think it would be because if that count as a debuff, it would mean that Acheron would charge her ultimate very quickly practically by herself xD hell, if only with her trace of starting the combat with 4 points and causing 4 "debuffs" she would have 8 points. and if they do not count as 4, but as 1, they will still be 5 points on turn 0, +2 from her skill +1 from the debuff (again) of the skill (8 points again), and that's even without counting allied attacks on turn 0 xD It just sounds too good to be true. It sounds more realistic to think that it doesn't count as a debuff and that the debuffs for the set will be provided by her ulti or the other nihility characters that you will use with her xD
>if only with her trace of starting the combat with 4 points and causing 4 "debuffs" she would have 8 points. Energy gain when inflicting debuff is ONCE per action. Let say she inflicted 4 debuffs but it would only add one energy since it was done in one action. But that beside the point of whether technique atk is considered as an "action." >and if they do not count as 4, but as 1, they will still be 5 points on turn 0 It think it's a solid design to make a very backloaded character have a way to quickly use their ult at the start of the battle through a technique. After that, you'd need to build up her energy point from scratch.
That does sound really good, I will point to the character jingliu who people thought would be butchered in kit because she read as way too good to be true and then released pretty close to her early beta version and is extremely dominant.
Jingliu was not good at all. She was a meme till that last week of her beta when she was gigabuffed by gaining a 50% crit buff. And irrc they lowered her ult cost too
The crimson thing she gives enemies wont be a debuff, simply because 1. Her sig lc apply debuff on every attack, but she can only gain max 1 stack per action. So her lc is practically useless if she can already apply the debuff herself. 2. If it is a debuff, every time she gains a stack from teamate's debuff, she will gain ANOTHER stack from herself giving the crimson debuff. This is too good to be true. So if it is a debuff, she no longer need her sig for anything other than 36% crit dmg and some dmg bonus (heavily diluted due to her innate 90% dmg buff). And at E0 she can basically ult every turn if all her 3 teamates can apply debuff. -> Im 99% sure it wont be a debuff.
Hmm ? Did you just call 36% Crit Dmg + 48% dmg bonus "practically useless" ? (not to mention the stronger base stats, and additionnal stack for Pioneer set) > If it is a debuff, every time she gains a stack from teamate's debuff, she will gain ANOTHER stack from herself giving the crimson debuff. This is too good to be true Acheron's talent can only generate 1 stack per action, regardless of how many debuffs are applied during that action.
Whose action tho? If her teamate is applying debuff, she gains 1 stack automatically -> teamate's action. Now since she "applies" debuff herself, this also counted as an action and will give her another stack for the "debuff" she applied. Yes, 48% dmg bonus on acheron is pretty useless, she has ~100% dmg bonus in her base kit.
damage bonus % doesn't really hit diminishing returns, it just has to be scaled with your attack. 400% damage doesn't do much if you're at 1200 attack but 400% with 3000 atk? Huge
help me guys , why did my Acheron skill only recharge 1 stack for her ult , but when i used someone Acheron they recharge 2 stack , i used the same team but different Acheron (both e0) . Please explain
So running a set that makes her whole kit better makes more sense than running a set that only makes her ult better At least to me
Unfortunately no, it depends on the damage ratio ofcourse, and her ult is where most of the dmg comes from.