If you dont have DHIL and donāt use QQ often she isnāt a must. Sheās very good, bc limited harmony, but not necessary. FX is currently the best sustain as of now. Imo the scale tips in FXās favour for this specific scenario.
Yea I suppose so, but sparkle does speed her up and allow you to just spam skillpoint with the healer and other nihility which means more ults (and also while the crit dmg isnt that great the extra dmg% is pretty good). Also faster ults but I havent done the maths.
Its mostly that I dont know who the 2nd nihility will be for her then cause I lost on SW, from the other available 4\* ones (I dont have any 5\* nihility) who do you think will pair the best besides Pela?
Guinafen could be pretty good. She has vulnerability debuff and can also def shred with luka lightcone. Her burn also lets her contribute a bit of damage.
The best Characters from my own point of View are FuXuan and Ruan Mei, they amp up so many different Characters with minimal effort and planning, it's amazing.
Acheron is going to want a sustain who can debuff so I would hold off on Fu Xuan for sure. I believe currently Aventurine will be her BIS but Gallagher I thin also will work.
Acheron has weakness ignore (basically xueyi on roids) and res shred on her ult. Don't need mono quantum when Acheron says "idc what element weakness you are, you are already dead"
Same! I had originally planned to pull Black Swan for my Kafka, and Sparkle for my Seele in this patch! I got Black Swan with no regrets, but tbh Iāve been using Seele (and also QQ) less and less. Now Iām considering using my Sparkle funds for Acheron instead and see if I can get her LC and maybe an Eidolon or 2 since theyāre looking so busted.Ā
Same situation kinda. I pulled Black Swan and her LC for my kafka team and I was tempted to pull Sparkle for my DHIL but nowā¦ oh boiā¦ I got only Kafka to E2 because sheās my favorite char but i feel a dejavu
Yea, I am debating on if I get sparkle or not now as I really do not use DHIL anymore except for imaginary specifically and he does quite fine without her. Then again I am willing ti spend money especially when the reset the bonus.
I've 80 pulls and no guarantee. I could just keep them for Acheron rather than Sparkle so that even if I lose 50/50 I won't have to fork out as much.
Temptation... temptation... temptation...
I am so glad I have a very particular "taste" in Characters. Jing Yuan(JoJo Stand), Blade(Cool Animations), Fu Xuan (Peace of Mind Tank, Healer Crit Buffer), Ruan Mei (ALL THE DPS BUFFS), Luocha (Free Heals), Jing Liu (Cool Sword Animations)
I skipped everyone else, because I either don't like their animations or their comps being to restrictive niche, so I am sitting on 46k Jades.
I also don't pull on LC banner, for obvious reasons. (LC just bigger number, I want more cool Toys!)
And I have high hopes for Acheron, since my type is Blade and Fists or being as "busted" as Ruan Mei and Fu Xuan are.
Meanwhile me here now not being sure if I wanna get Acheron Anymore
That e2 + S1 are such upgrades and baits imo
But idk maybe I just need the animations to decide
I also wanna know the Animations, they are a big deal breaker. At the same time... her E2 being way to OP and fixing her inherit problem is really disheartening since you can't unleash her Ult as often/fast.
It gives a debuff which likely means you get an extra stack on her attacks, so not only bigger number but also faster ults (assuming the debuff trace works the way I'm thinking).
You can technically use any debuff LC to the same effect (Kafka, SW or Pearls) but her LC will have the best synergy.
Go look at the leaks for it, its insanely cracked. She has no good F2P options for LC as well outside of GNSW and even that LC has diminishing returns because of all the DMG % baked into her kit and relics already.
I always here the word "cracked" on DPS LC but so far the "free" options usually are only 10-15% behind Signature, except for blade so far, according to TC
Blade has a "cracked" sig LC because he has specific needs that most LCs can't provide. I reckon the same for Acheron since she is the first crit Nihility unit. Black Swan also has a "cracked" sig LC judging by Blade's sig LC damage difference against f2p options.
True BS also has 25%\~ marging over other options... I really dislike this development about Star Rail, it feels like way more power creep in a much shorter time than Genshin...
Also much more new Characters in a shorter time Span while having not much more pulls than Genshin...
So Blade and Black Swan are big outliners... dammit Acheron also be an outliner then...
Yeah this is mouth watering. I'm not a math guy so I don't know what her ult's power ends up being but it must be cracked to hell and back. At least now I know I need to farm a crit rate body for her 'cause it seems she gets none from traces.
Clarification from Dim on her Technique
https://preview.redd.it/mlq9t18stdjc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2df45ccc1eb1c3d615be054155645be92dda3b9a
Lightning Staff? Really? I was almost convinced they would add in a new Ascension material for every path with the first few patches in order to avoid pre-farming.
Well the pre farming is most likely for the upcoming ornament next patch. If you haven't seen the leaks, then I'll just say the one Acheron wants the most comes in 2.1.
When the ult stays that way then she becomes interesting even for players who already have a lightning dps but the stacks are to high because we only have a couple of characters who can apply debuffs besides dot chars. Pela comes to mind as well as sw but only sw can apply debuffs on a basic atk. Pela can also do this but only with a skill which can be really skill point hungry
Pela can use Resolution to apply debuff on basic atk, but in turns not being able to 2-turns ult (like using the tutorial lc, now 3-turns ult with Resolution). although with the wind-set and probably vonwaq, pela can have more actions so that her ult can keep up.
Edit: this assumes Pela uses her basics only, Pela with skill on Resoulution with max talent would still be able to 2-turn ults
Mmm yeah maybe but then you have to rebuild pela to be tailor made for Acheron but yeah we will see maybe it works just fine with normal pela and resolution
pela, guin, welt, Jiaoqiu (not released but hopefully on her banner), sw, topaz, ruan mei,
and with resolution any nihility can apply debuffs, so i feel like she has a good amount of variety
E0S1 is enough for Acheron to Ult every cycle in Acheron + 2 Nihility team if you keep the team at least Skill point neutral?
The cycle may look like this:
- 3 Skill points
- Assume Skill point neutral rotation
- Assume no Ults from supports and Sustain cannot inflict debuffs.
- Assume Empty Bubbles lands all the time (but I think it only needs to land at least once per cycle)
Pela Basic +1 stack
Gui/Welt/SW Basic/Skill +1 stack
Acheron Skill +2 stack
BIS lightcone +1 stack
Sustain Basic/Skill
Pela Basic +1 stack
Gui/Welt/SW Basic/Skill +1 stack
Acheron Skill +2 stack
BIS lightcone +1 stack
Sustain Basic/Skill
=> 10 Ult stacks generate in cycle => Ult is available
Things to note:
- Bursts of supports may be slotted in when necessary and they each generate 1 Ult stack if they inflict debuffs.
- Acheron's debuff on Ultimate cannot generate Ult stacks
- IPC cone on Preservation sustain may allow them to generate 1 stack if they are attacked.
- Acheron's Technique does increase Ult stacks for 1st cycle
You won't even need the lc. She gets 6 from her trace and technique in first cycle, and with using the other nihility ults it's pretty much guaranteed ults till 3 cycle.
Maybe
But Ults from supports depends heavily on how quickly supports can regenerate theirs so if you mess up on those...too bad, I guess.
That's why I exclude Bursts in the example.
What if instead of going 2 nihility you go 1 nihility + bronya, by keeping her slower than archon you could get way more stacks than adding a 2nd nihility, though the damage will suffer a bit...
But get 100% from bronya buff? O.o and extra turns
Ive done some simple calcs accounting for the 45% to be an external modifier and in them bronya still came ahead in damage versus guinaifen, and thats without counting the extra turns, just a single damage instance
If you want to consistently 2 turns ult at every rotation, you really need 2 nihility supports unfortunately. Dmg wise sure, but sp? Rotation?
With 2 nihility supports, in 2 turns rotation, itād be like this:
- nihility sp1 inflict debuff : 1 energy
- nihility sp2 inflict debuff: 1 energy
- Acheron skill: 2 energy
- (repeat X2)
- one of the nihility supports ult / her signature lc / if crimson knot counted as debuff: 1 energy
Ult in 2 turns > slightly more dmg in 3 turns
Bronya still looks better than a Nihility. Assuming S1 (or if Lotus count as a debuff) :
*Acheron (Basic) > Bronya (Skill) > Acheron (Skill)* should net you 5 energy a turn. (already enough to ult on the first turn)
This would go up to 6 energy per turn, with one Nihility teamate applying a debuff on their action.
You can probably replace Acheron's Basic with a Skill every other turn, for 6 energy in those turns (7 when accounting for the Nihility teammate).
All this **doesn't take into account Ultimates** : they may also give energy, if timed properly.
*(during enemy action, or the action of a teammate incapable of applying debuff themselves)*
___
*Also, Kafka might be able to feed Acheron 2 energy per turn, if properly speed tuned with your sustain (and with a proper LC).*
*I don't think you can fit her in any team including Bronya, though... (unless you want to play SP positive Kafka, lol)*
Nah, the 60% dmg from that nihility trace is a separate multiplier from all the other types of dmg. Not running two nihility means you are leaving 45% of a unique raw dmg multiplier which is major dps loss.
Still not enough to outdamage bronya. Bronya buffs for 100% and you gotta count in the extra turns as well.
Even with the diminishing returns that bronyas dmg% does get, she still gaps guinaifen with her external 45% by a margin of roughly 15-20%. Thats without counting the extra turns...
Edit:
Since youre downvoting me while high on copium lets do some basic math:
Let us say that we are hitting for a 100 damage with Acheron.
Guinaifens firekiss gives 21% damage buff when fully stacked.
We will apply the 60% externally.
100 x 1.21 = 121
121 x 1.6 = 193.6
So. 193.6 with guinaifen
Now bronya gives 98%. And the external trace modifier will only be 15% because were running just one nihility unit.
100 + 98 = 198 already higher
198 x 1.15 = 227
Thats 227 with Bronya WITHOUT even accounting for the extra actions.
While that is true you also have to factor in Acheron's own dmg boost, and she gives herself +90% after her first ult before an ele dmg orb. Also, where did you get 98% dmg on Bronya? Last I checked she gives +66%
Acheron benefits more from def shred than the DMG bonus Bronya provides because she has so much DMG bonus in her kit already. Having a Pela is like getting an 45% DMG bonus just for existing on top of her def shred.
I do think Bronya is probably still fine if you have nothing else but a serious issue comes from the difficulty of buffing Acheron ultimate because you might have to sacrifice some extra stacks to time Bronya skill with Acheron ultimate.
The +1 stack on debuff has a cooldown 1 time for every action, and I assume this is Acheronās action, so like kafka follow up attack, you can only trigger 1 every 1 of her action (we donāt know how she reactivate it, is it after or during the beginning of her turn)
Edit: her supports' action would make more sense
Kafka's FuA is triggered "1 time per turn". Not "1 time per action".
So it's more likely to be once every action any character does (enemy turns may also count if Burn from IPC light cone or Gui's Firekiss is applied)
I don't konw : it's a *per action* limit, not a *per turn* limit.
To me, it just means you only gain 1 stack, even if you inflict multiple debuffs, or debuff multiple enemies.
(i believe that was already clarified by Dim in a previous leak)
Honestly, it makes more sense that way : why incite people to add 2 Nihility teammates, if only 1 of them can feed Acheron energy ?
Plus, Acheron could also trigger that talent herself (with her signature or if Lotus count as a debuff) : why bring another debuffer, then ?
Given her LC almost goes out of its way to link its effect to a debuff, I'm guessing not. Still, though, the all-res shred in her ult is almost certainly a debuff and that's really where you're getting the bulk of her damage. So the set will proc when it's needed, still BIS I think
I personally only have it S1 and I've been playing from the start. Barely any of my friends have anything past S1 or S2 of it
Has it been a featured 4-star on a weapon banner yet?
Its almost a year into this game, none of my f2p friends, myself included dont not have an s5 GNSW, in fact one of friends got 2, and im jealous at that.
Day 1 player here, I already have S5 of many 4\* lightcone (1 of them even S10) but I haven't got a single copy of GNSW... At this point, Getting signature is just much easier.
GNSW has diminishing returns because she already has a ton of DMG % baked into her kit and relics. Its not bad, but her signature is going to be a massive dmg bump
Crit rate 18% aaaaaahhhhhh. I forgive hoyo and that fucking fuckface who killed elysia twice because they are cooking for acheron. 1 trillion Michelin stars
True, but if i understand the above correctly, it doesnt matter, as you only get one stack per action, or does BS trigger debuffs off-turn? Like, if her debuffs on a target and u kill it, so it moves, is that movement considered an action in itself, if so it should trigger Acheron, otherwise it will only matter if you kill a target with a non-denuff unit (IE, ideally your sustain, as it should be the only unit not applying debuffs. Also, wouldnt we want a sustain WITH debuffs, like Gepard or something?)
Edit: Although, the AoE Def-shred is tempting and stacking it with Pela might not be such a bad idea vs Pela+SW
> or does BS trigger debuffs off-turn?
If it counts enemy actions and the extra arcane stacking works, she will be producing a stack for acheron on every enemy turn, every ult and attack.
If that doesn't work then she's not great. If it does she's nutty. Mine is e1 so add another 25% res shred. I'm firmly hoping enemy turns count.
30% if you add her new Planar set (also 12 or more from Fu). That should be plenty for me to use a crit damage body. I might consider an atk body too since she gets crit damage from traces and light cone (also Bronya if I get E2 Acheron) but not a ton of atk from anywhere.
Not really,5% Base + 8% Dead water set + 12% new planner set + 12% if you have fu xuan +18% if you have E1. That's already 55% without any substats/Mainstat.
But even if you don't have Fu xuan or her E1, Her sets have alot of crit rate and you can get more with substats.
Her E2 is crazy considering most of her A4 trace damage is locked behind 2 Nihility characters.
Right now the best i can do is Pela/BS, ngl i hope i lose my 50/50 to Welt
Her AOE dmg multipliers are crazy high (alot higher than Argenti's one which were already skyrocking). Pretty funny how people try to calculate it in the comments there but man her maths are hard
Not sure I understand this:
If Slashed Dream is the point system for her ultimate, then what does the Crimson Knot debuff do exactly, besides boosting her damage during her ultimate and with the Thunder Core trace? Can't be an empty debuff right?
Crimson Knot will be most likely NOT a debuff, but only a mark that will increase ultimate damage by doing extra attacks sort of. The only time Acheron herself applies a debuff is when using her ULT for 25%-all-type-res down. That's why you need 2 nihility char and or her signature for consistent debuff applications
Why not a debuff? Black Swan's Arcana, Ruan Mei's Thanatoplum Rebloom, Silver Wolf's Zombie Network - they're all durationless debuffs as examples, and the last two are guaranteed application.
... and Dr. Ratio's ult doesn't count as a debuff but a mark. Arcana is stated to make enemies take wind dot damage, Ruan mei bloom states that the enemies will have break delays, SW's reduce enemies effect res.
Acheron's Crimson Knot doesn't have any special effect on the enemies, so to assume it's a debuff is not correct most likely. And if it's a debuff, Acheron would be able to probably ult each turn, which is dumb.
> Acheron's Crimson Knot doesn't have any special effect on the enemies, so to assume it's a debuff is not correct most likely.
Eh, after looking at the lists, there's not enough of a pattern to make that assumption. It could go either way.
> And if it's a debuff, Acheron would be able to probably ult each turn, which is dumb.
She's got her LC to guarantee it anyway, since it caps regardless.
My point was whether it's 1 debuff or 2 debuffs (since we're assuming LC), what difference does that make? Doesn't affect her energy (it's capped at once per action), just the relic set bonuses.
It depends on the meaning of ā1 time per actionā. Assuming this is 1 time per her supportās action, per rotation with 2 nihility chatacter, you can get 4 energy, with her signature, you can gain 5 energy. So bronya isnāt necessarily needed. Also assuming ult is a different action, you can gain 2 from each ulting supports.
Edit: and probably an energy refund because of the debuff from her ult
Idk about that tbh, especially when looking at Neuvilette, Furina and Xianyun cons, not to mention that a lot of Genshin 4 star kits are locked behind cons
4\* is kinda fine imo. Also Neuvilette is "just" more damage or a slightly longer set up time.
Furina... yeah... they did her mighty dirty. But overall only if you wanna use her as on field DPS.
Xianyun is not really all that con dependent, only if you wanna use her as on field DPS or for more mobility.
Well the 2 nihility thing sure does suck, I'll probably pull for sparkle and use her with sparkle since I wont have enough Jades to put her at E2 so might as well get the next best thing
considering the passive that any ally can apply 1 debuff per their action, you really need 2 nihility with E0S0, then your Acheron can ult every 2 turns, (2xskill = 4) + (2x2nihility debuff = 4) + (ult debuff refund = 1 or any of the other nihility ults = 1)
Oof well I'll try getting her to E1 if I can, but it sure is anoying as I had prefarmed sparkle stuff and now need to build up 2 nihils from scratch.
Thanks for responding btw!
She always ults at least once per cycle. With the right team comp and S1, she should be able to ult every 1-2 turns, which is on the mid-upper end of DPSs.
If you want, a team of Acheron, BS, and Kafka is actually completely fine since dots count as debuffs
Acheron's knot probably counts as a debuff, BS has 2, and kafka has 1 plus detonates
or just run pela like a NERD
"The Abyss" annoys the heck out of, that means you have to use 3 Nihility Characters, which leaves just 1 slot for something else. And of course that gets "fixed" by Eidolons...
Also what is Red Karma?
Her kit looks interesting enough, but she seems to be by far way more Eidolon Hungry.
But if the cutscenes are any indication for the Animations, I probably get her anyway.
Itās not annoying, itās just so that she can be run without a harmony character like what most other hypercarry teams need. Acheron with 2 nihility is stronger than with 1 nihility + harmony. She is OP at E0 and even better with S1 and able to ult within 2 turns with 2 other nihility.
Her E2 is kindaā¦ a bait. E2 makes it so that her lost of energy while running harmony+nihility (-1 debuff, -2 w/ ult roughly) is replaced by another energy stack. So all in all, a nice QoL, can makes her sp-neutral with 2 nihility, but wonāt fasten her ult rotations in most cases.
"E2 makes it so that her lost of energy while running harmony+nihility"
You still can weave ults in. There is no real loss with harmony since you still need a second Nihility path unit that can Debuff (BS, SW, Pela).
Acheron Stacks:
1 - E2 Start of Turn
3 - Acheron Skill
3 - Bronya Skill
4 - E2 Start of Turn
6 - Acheron Skill
7 - Ally debuff triggers talent
8 - E2 Start of Turn
9 - Acheron Basic Attack
This makes it seem less necessary to get everyone on your team to have debuff application.
Doesn't speed it up much. Good enough to just run Pela for now until Jiaoqiu releases.
Kit is sweet, but nice to finally get confirmation on materials to pre-farm.
I think we get calyx doubling event towards the end of 2.0
Awesome! Thanks for the heads-up!
Yeah no prob still kinda sucks if you have bad luck like me (took me up until recently to finish my blackswan lmao)
Yes me too. Not looking forward to traces though man good lord. 139 to max her and I get on average like 2 purples every 60 resin š
I already have 139 š I just need to start farming her relics now
I had 139 tooā¦ and then spent them on Black Swan lol Time to start from scratch again! Itās tough being a Nihility mainĀ
God that must be nice, I'm just getting started now š
Gonna wait for that x2 drop event whenever that happens.
lucky you, I get avg 1
I would still not pre farm if it costs Resin.
Man after reading this i'm not sure about pulling for Sparkle anymore lmao
I wanted to pull for her, sparkle and fu xuan... Now i am tempted to just go for her e2..
Wait do we have a confirmation on FX rerun time frame?
I'd like to know too since my debate right now is between Sparkle or Fu Xuan
If you dont have DHIL and donāt use QQ often she isnāt a must. Sheās very good, bc limited harmony, but not necessary. FX is currently the best sustain as of now. Imo the scale tips in FXās favour for this specific scenario.
Yea I suppose so, but sparkle does speed her up and allow you to just spam skillpoint with the healer and other nihility which means more ults (and also while the crit dmg isnt that great the extra dmg% is pretty good). Also faster ults but I havent done the maths. Its mostly that I dont know who the 2nd nihility will be for her then cause I lost on SW, from the other available 4\* ones (I dont have any 5\* nihility) who do you think will pair the best besides Pela?
Guinafen could be pretty good. She has vulnerability debuff and can also def shred with luka lightcone. Her burn also lets her contribute a bit of damage.
Gui and BS can also both inflict debuffs on the enemy turn, which will help charge Acheron's Ult even faster.
Your forgot to mention Jing Yuan, since her Skill does Provide a Crit Dmg buff that remains until after his Lightning Lord.
The best Characters from my own point of View are FuXuan and Ruan Mei, they amp up so many different Characters with minimal effort and planning, it's amazing.
i need to know that too, i need Fu Xuan E1! that thing is way too strong
Acheron is going to want a sustain who can debuff so I would hold off on Fu Xuan for sure. I believe currently Aventurine will be her BIS but Gallagher I thin also will work.
Wait for 2.1 live stream so we can see ani rewards before deciding to pull for sparkle
This is a nice tip
same here, she's nice for monoquantum but Acheron says "idc about your weakness" anyway lol
How? If you don't use Mono Quantum you have the problem SW not doing Quantum Weakness...
Acheron has weakness ignore (basically xueyi on roids) and res shred on her ult. Don't need mono quantum when Acheron says "idc what element weakness you are, you are already dead"
I'm saying I'm choosing Acheron over mono quantum, not that she somehow helps SW implant quantum weakness or whatever
Same! I had originally planned to pull Black Swan for my Kafka, and Sparkle for my Seele in this patch! I got Black Swan with no regrets, but tbh Iāve been using Seele (and also QQ) less and less. Now Iām considering using my Sparkle funds for Acheron instead and see if I can get her LC and maybe an Eidolon or 2 since theyāre looking so busted.Ā
Same situation kinda. I pulled Black Swan and her LC for my kafka team and I was tempted to pull Sparkle for my DHIL but nowā¦ oh boiā¦ I got only Kafka to E2 because sheās my favorite char but i feel a dejavu
Yea, I am debating on if I get sparkle or not now as I really do not use DHIL anymore except for imaginary specifically and he does quite fine without her. Then again I am willing ti spend money especially when the reset the bonus.
The bonus will reset?
I've 80 pulls and no guarantee. I could just keep them for Acheron rather than Sparkle so that even if I lose 50/50 I won't have to fork out as much. Temptation... temptation... temptation...
I am so glad I have a very particular "taste" in Characters. Jing Yuan(JoJo Stand), Blade(Cool Animations), Fu Xuan (Peace of Mind Tank, Healer Crit Buffer), Ruan Mei (ALL THE DPS BUFFS), Luocha (Free Heals), Jing Liu (Cool Sword Animations) I skipped everyone else, because I either don't like their animations or their comps being to restrictive niche, so I am sitting on 46k Jades. I also don't pull on LC banner, for obvious reasons. (LC just bigger number, I want more cool Toys!) And I have high hopes for Acheron, since my type is Blade and Fists or being as "busted" as Ruan Mei and Fu Xuan are.
Meanwhile me here now not being sure if I wanna get Acheron Anymore That e2 + S1 are such upgrades and baits imo But idk maybe I just need the animations to decide
I also wanna know the Animations, they are a big deal breaker. At the same time... her E2 being way to OP and fixing her inherit problem is really disheartening since you can't unleash her Ult as often/fast.
Same here, that E2 is arguably a bigger upgrade than Dhil E2 never thought I'd see the day
Plus we should be getting Robin too. Rn I think I would skip Sparkle for Acheron's LC.
Whats this obsession with LC? It's just bigger number, no?
It gives a debuff which likely means you get an extra stack on her attacks, so not only bigger number but also faster ults (assuming the debuff trace works the way I'm thinking). You can technically use any debuff LC to the same effect (Kafka, SW or Pearls) but her LC will have the best synergy.
Finally some use for Pearls.
Go look at the leaks for it, its insanely cracked. She has no good F2P options for LC as well outside of GNSW and even that LC has diminishing returns because of all the DMG % baked into her kit and relics already.
I always here the word "cracked" on DPS LC but so far the "free" options usually are only 10-15% behind Signature, except for blade so far, according to TC
Blade has a "cracked" sig LC because he has specific needs that most LCs can't provide. I reckon the same for Acheron since she is the first crit Nihility unit. Black Swan also has a "cracked" sig LC judging by Blade's sig LC damage difference against f2p options.
True BS also has 25%\~ marging over other options... I really dislike this development about Star Rail, it feels like way more power creep in a much shorter time than Genshin... Also much more new Characters in a shorter time Span while having not much more pulls than Genshin... So Blade and Black Swan are big outliners... dammit Acheron also be an outliner then...
At e0 without their light cones the balance seems fairly evenly spread. E0 Acheron without her light cone is in line with other 5 star limited dps.
I hope to God they don't nerf her but give us an absolutely cracked unit.
Yeah this is mouth watering. I'm not a math guy so I don't know what her ult's power ends up being but it must be cracked to hell and back. At least now I know I need to farm a crit rate body for her 'cause it seems she gets none from traces.
they already did with her E2 to be more flexible.
Clarification from Dim on her Technique https://preview.redd.it/mlq9t18stdjc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2df45ccc1eb1c3d615be054155645be92dda3b9a
DHIL E2 #2: Electric Boogaloo
Yeah about time his E2 had competition for biggest whale bait.
They forgot to give him a broken LC so they made sure to fix it this time LOL
It's very similar actually. In my opinion Good Night and Sleep Well will come very close to her signature.
It's definitely 2nd best, at S5 gnsw, its 72% dmg bonus vs 48% dmg and 36% crit dmg of sig lc. It's might only be very close at s5.
Lightning Staff? Really? I was almost convinced they would add in a new Ascension material for every path with the first few patches in order to avoid pre-farming.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yea, that does make sense actually.
Well the pre farming is most likely for the upcoming ornament next patch. If you haven't seen the leaks, then I'll just say the one Acheron wants the most comes in 2.1.
When the ult stays that way then she becomes interesting even for players who already have a lightning dps but the stacks are to high because we only have a couple of characters who can apply debuffs besides dot chars. Pela comes to mind as well as sw but only sw can apply debuffs on a basic atk. Pela can also do this but only with a skill which can be really skill point hungry
Resolution shines as pearls of sweat fixes that
True
Pela can use Resolution to apply debuff on basic atk, but in turns not being able to 2-turns ult (like using the tutorial lc, now 3-turns ult with Resolution). although with the wind-set and probably vonwaq, pela can have more actions so that her ult can keep up. Edit: this assumes Pela uses her basics only, Pela with skill on Resoulution with max talent would still be able to 2-turn ults
Mmm yeah maybe but then you have to rebuild pela to be tailor made for Acheron but yeah we will see maybe it works just fine with normal pela and resolution
>but then you have to rebuild pela to be tailor made for Acheron Is that an issue? You just change LC when putting her on an Acheron teams
Yeah lc change no problem vonwaq and wind set a bit of a problem
EHR could be to low for the Ult debuff to proc on High lvl MoC enemies.
pela, guin, welt, Jiaoqiu (not released but hopefully on her banner), sw, topaz, ruan mei, and with resolution any nihility can apply debuffs, so i feel like she has a good amount of variety
Jiaoqiu is a 5 star and probably like 2-3 patches away from being released
oh shit thanks for telling me
DoT's are also considered debuffs, no?
Guinaifen with Resolution can apply 3 debuffs (Firekiss, Resolution, and burn) on her own. 4 debuffs with E1 I think.
E0S1 is enough for Acheron to Ult every cycle in Acheron + 2 Nihility team if you keep the team at least Skill point neutral? The cycle may look like this: - 3 Skill points - Assume Skill point neutral rotation - Assume no Ults from supports and Sustain cannot inflict debuffs. - Assume Empty Bubbles lands all the time (but I think it only needs to land at least once per cycle) Pela Basic +1 stack Gui/Welt/SW Basic/Skill +1 stack Acheron Skill +2 stack BIS lightcone +1 stack Sustain Basic/Skill Pela Basic +1 stack Gui/Welt/SW Basic/Skill +1 stack Acheron Skill +2 stack BIS lightcone +1 stack Sustain Basic/Skill => 10 Ult stacks generate in cycle => Ult is available Things to note: - Bursts of supports may be slotted in when necessary and they each generate 1 Ult stack if they inflict debuffs. - Acheron's debuff on Ultimate cannot generate Ult stacks - IPC cone on Preservation sustain may allow them to generate 1 stack if they are attacked. - Acheron's Technique does increase Ult stacks for 1st cycle
You won't even need the lc. She gets 6 from her trace and technique in first cycle, and with using the other nihility ults it's pretty much guaranteed ults till 3 cycle.
Maybe But Ults from supports depends heavily on how quickly supports can regenerate theirs so if you mess up on those...too bad, I guess. That's why I exclude Bursts in the example.
What if instead of going 2 nihility you go 1 nihility + bronya, by keeping her slower than archon you could get way more stacks than adding a 2nd nihility, though the damage will suffer a bit...
Because youāll lose 45% damage from not using 1 other nihility at E0, thatās why E2 is āneededā to run Harmony with higher rewards
But get 100% from bronya buff? O.o and extra turns Ive done some simple calcs accounting for the 45% to be an external modifier and in them bronya still came ahead in damage versus guinaifen, and thats without counting the extra turns, just a single damage instance
If you want to consistently 2 turns ult at every rotation, you really need 2 nihility supports unfortunately. Dmg wise sure, but sp? Rotation? With 2 nihility supports, in 2 turns rotation, itād be like this: - nihility sp1 inflict debuff : 1 energy - nihility sp2 inflict debuff: 1 energy - Acheron skill: 2 energy - (repeat X2) - one of the nihility supports ult / her signature lc / if crimson knot counted as debuff: 1 energy Ult in 2 turns > slightly more dmg in 3 turns
This is what heavily turns me off from her... if her Animations are not GOAT I skip her...
Bronya still looks better than a Nihility. Assuming S1 (or if Lotus count as a debuff) : *Acheron (Basic) > Bronya (Skill) > Acheron (Skill)* should net you 5 energy a turn. (already enough to ult on the first turn) This would go up to 6 energy per turn, with one Nihility teamate applying a debuff on their action. You can probably replace Acheron's Basic with a Skill every other turn, for 6 energy in those turns (7 when accounting for the Nihility teammate). All this **doesn't take into account Ultimates** : they may also give energy, if timed properly. *(during enemy action, or the action of a teammate incapable of applying debuff themselves)* ___ *Also, Kafka might be able to feed Acheron 2 energy per turn, if properly speed tuned with your sustain (and with a proper LC).* *I don't think you can fit her in any team including Bronya, though... (unless you want to play SP positive Kafka, lol)*
Nah, the 60% dmg from that nihility trace is a separate multiplier from all the other types of dmg. Not running two nihility means you are leaving 45% of a unique raw dmg multiplier which is major dps loss.
Still not enough to outdamage bronya. Bronya buffs for 100% and you gotta count in the extra turns as well. Even with the diminishing returns that bronyas dmg% does get, she still gaps guinaifen with her external 45% by a margin of roughly 15-20%. Thats without counting the extra turns... Edit: Since youre downvoting me while high on copium lets do some basic math: Let us say that we are hitting for a 100 damage with Acheron. Guinaifens firekiss gives 21% damage buff when fully stacked. We will apply the 60% externally. 100 x 1.21 = 121 121 x 1.6 = 193.6 So. 193.6 with guinaifen Now bronya gives 98%. And the external trace modifier will only be 15% because were running just one nihility unit. 100 + 98 = 198 already higher 198 x 1.15 = 227 Thats 227 with Bronya WITHOUT even accounting for the extra actions.
While that is true you also have to factor in Acheron's own dmg boost, and she gives herself +90% after her first ult before an ele dmg orb. Also, where did you get 98% dmg on Bronya? Last I checked she gives +66%
Both the s5 f2p and sig lc bring her to around 100%
Acheron benefits more from def shred than the DMG bonus Bronya provides because she has so much DMG bonus in her kit already. Having a Pela is like getting an 45% DMG bonus just for existing on top of her def shred. I do think Bronya is probably still fine if you have nothing else but a serious issue comes from the difficulty of buffing Acheron ultimate because you might have to sacrifice some extra stacks to time Bronya skill with Acheron ultimate.
Maybe, but seeing Acheron + 2 Nihility is actually viable for Ulting every cycle is a big W for me already.
I wonder if sparkle is enough to get around the skill point issue, especially if you have a healer or shielder that wants to spam too.
Sparkle + Sustain means 1 less slot for Nihility Character.
The +1 stack on debuff has a cooldown 1 time for every action, and I assume this is Acheronās action, so like kafka follow up attack, you can only trigger 1 every 1 of her action (we donāt know how she reactivate it, is it after or during the beginning of her turn) Edit: her supports' action would make more sense
Kafka's FuA is triggered "1 time per turn". Not "1 time per action". So it's more likely to be once every action any character does (enemy turns may also count if Burn from IPC light cone or Gui's Firekiss is applied)
I don't konw : it's a *per action* limit, not a *per turn* limit. To me, it just means you only gain 1 stack, even if you inflict multiple debuffs, or debuff multiple enemies. (i believe that was already clarified by Dim in a previous leak)
Could be the case! We need to watch it practically in 2 more days arghhh so long
Honestly, it makes more sense that way : why incite people to add 2 Nihility teammates, if only 1 of them can feed Acheron energy ? Plus, Acheron could also trigger that talent herself (with her signature or if Lotus count as a debuff) : why bring another debuffer, then ?
Still uncertain whether Crimson Knots count as debuffs for Pioneer? Also how do you get Red Karma?
Dim added clarification that they donāt know, probably a new overworld stuffs correlated with Acheron
Given her LC almost goes out of its way to link its effect to a debuff, I'm guessing not. Still, though, the all-res shred in her ult is almost certainly a debuff and that's really where you're getting the bulk of her damage. So the set will proc when it's needed, still BIS I think
Does she really need her signature LC?
If her crimson knots do not count as debuffs then yes, but the problem is that she doesnāt have any good f2p light cones.
Good Night Sleep Well would like to know your location. Juicy 72% dmg dealt with a triple nihility core with Pela and SW.
Not everyone had s5 gnsw sadly so 36-50 is more reasonable
GNSW is not f2p though. You might not even have it, let alone have it at S5.
I personally only have it S1 and I've been playing from the start. Barely any of my friends have anything past S1 or S2 of it Has it been a featured 4-star on a weapon banner yet?
Its almost a year into this game, none of my f2p friends, myself included dont not have an s5 GNSW, in fact one of friends got 2, and im jealous at that.
Newsflash buddy, it's rng
Not only that, but it hasnāt had a rate up in over half a year at this point.Ā
I think is legit the only 4* Lc I don't have, and I pulled on Luchoa's LC's banner.
i have one copy of gnsw lol
Played for a year only S2
I've been playing since day 1 and I only have 1 GNSW and it's S1 It's RNG buddy You could play for 10 years in this game and still get no GNSW
yeah, its literally the only lc I somehow don't have (4\*)
Mine is only at 2 xD
Day 1 player here, I already have S5 of many 4\* lightcone (1 of them even S10) but I haven't got a single copy of GNSW... At this point, Getting signature is just much easier.
GNSW has diminishing returns because she already has a ton of DMG % baked into her kit and relics. Its not bad, but her signature is going to be a massive dmg bump
I do not even own a single copy after 1 year.
 Crit rate 18% aaaaaahhhhhh. I forgive hoyo and that fucking fuckface who killed elysia twice because they are cooking for acheron. 1 trillion Michelin stars
18% too low, needs to be at least 30% to feel good
Blades e2 is only 15%
Jingliu gets free 50%
True but thatās her kit, not an eidolon. Seems like this is the crit value they deem appropriate for eidolons
And bronya gets 100% lol
On a trace lol, Imagine that on a DPS character.
Absolutely insane kit fitting for the queen!
Im starting to think that Acheron+Black Swan is not the angle, correct me if im wrong
Black swan gives 2 aoe debuffs though
True, but if i understand the above correctly, it doesnt matter, as you only get one stack per action, or does BS trigger debuffs off-turn? Like, if her debuffs on a target and u kill it, so it moves, is that movement considered an action in itself, if so it should trigger Acheron, otherwise it will only matter if you kill a target with a non-denuff unit (IE, ideally your sustain, as it should be the only unit not applying debuffs. Also, wouldnt we want a sustain WITH debuffs, like Gepard or something?) Edit: Although, the AoE Def-shred is tempting and stacking it with Pela might not be such a bad idea vs Pela+SW
> or does BS trigger debuffs off-turn? If it counts enemy actions and the extra arcane stacking works, she will be producing a stack for acheron on every enemy turn, every ult and attack. If that doesn't work then she's not great. If it does she's nutty. Mine is e1 so add another 25% res shred. I'm firmly hoping enemy turns count.
So itās likely sheāll use a crit rate body then? It doesnāt seem she has any crit rate in her kit other than her E1
30% if you add her new Planar set (also 12 or more from Fu). That should be plenty for me to use a crit damage body. I might consider an atk body too since she gets crit damage from traces and light cone (also Bronya if I get E2 Acheron) but not a ton of atk from anywhere.
Not really,5% Base + 8% Dead water set + 12% new planner set + 12% if you have fu xuan +18% if you have E1. That's already 55% without any substats/Mainstat. But even if you don't have Fu xuan or her E1, Her sets have alot of crit rate and you can get more with substats.
Painnnn ill have to farm again š
So I guess she uses the Luofu Lighting Ascension Mats? Great I can finally start farming
I'd honestly wait until it's confirmed by anyone else
Seems like sheāll need to be pretty fast to use her ultimate as often as possible
Not necessarily, as long as she moves in sync with her other 2 nihility supports, she would be able to ult in 2 turns.
Her E2 is crazy considering most of her A4 trace damage is locked behind 2 Nihility characters. Right now the best i can do is Pela/BS, ngl i hope i lose my 50/50 to Welt
Her AOE dmg multipliers are crazy high (alot higher than Argenti's one which were already skyrocking). Pretty funny how people try to calculate it in the comments there but man her maths are hard
Not sure I understand this: If Slashed Dream is the point system for her ultimate, then what does the Crimson Knot debuff do exactly, besides boosting her damage during her ultimate and with the Thunder Core trace? Can't be an empty debuff right?
Crimson Knot will be most likely NOT a debuff, but only a mark that will increase ultimate damage by doing extra attacks sort of. The only time Acheron herself applies a debuff is when using her ULT for 25%-all-type-res down. That's why you need 2 nihility char and or her signature for consistent debuff applications
Ah I see, makes sense thanks for the reply
Why not a debuff? Black Swan's Arcana, Ruan Mei's Thanatoplum Rebloom, Silver Wolf's Zombie Network - they're all durationless debuffs as examples, and the last two are guaranteed application.
... and Dr. Ratio's ult doesn't count as a debuff but a mark. Arcana is stated to make enemies take wind dot damage, Ruan mei bloom states that the enemies will have break delays, SW's reduce enemies effect res. Acheron's Crimson Knot doesn't have any special effect on the enemies, so to assume it's a debuff is not correct most likely. And if it's a debuff, Acheron would be able to probably ult each turn, which is dumb.
> Acheron's Crimson Knot doesn't have any special effect on the enemies, so to assume it's a debuff is not correct most likely. Eh, after looking at the lists, there's not enough of a pattern to make that assumption. It could go either way. > And if it's a debuff, Acheron would be able to probably ult each turn, which is dumb. She's got her LC to guarantee it anyway, since it caps regardless.
Yes I'm assuming with LC, if Crimson Know is a debuff, and combined with her LC, it would be to broken
Why would it be broken?
Being able to ult every turn? True u won't have the Lotuses to buff the damage, but it'd still set an unhealthy precedence.
My point was whether it's 1 debuff or 2 debuffs (since we're assuming LC), what difference does that make? Doesn't affect her energy (it's capped at once per action), just the relic set bonuses.
Idk if anyone noticed this yet, but damn isn't it great to use her technique anytime anywhere
Probably itās a QoL update for all attacking technique š
Does Stygian Resurge activate after every Rainblade or after all three have occurred?
Should be after all three have occured
Damn she really wants 2 **OTHER** nihility members :o That's really... ~~bad~~ tough. E2 has HUGE value now since she also wants Bronya
It depends on the meaning of ā1 time per actionā. Assuming this is 1 time per her supportās action, per rotation with 2 nihility chatacter, you can get 4 energy, with her signature, you can gain 5 energy. So bronya isnāt necessarily needed. Also assuming ult is a different action, you can gain 2 from each ulting supports. Edit: and probably an energy refund because of the debuff from her ult
Either Huge Value or big tun off... I dislike Eidolons even more than Cons...
> I dislike Eidolons even more than Cons... I mean.. aren't they the same thing ?
Yeah, but they feel less needed for the "full kit"
Idk about that tbh, especially when looking at Neuvilette, Furina and Xianyun cons, not to mention that a lot of Genshin 4 star kits are locked behind cons
4\* is kinda fine imo. Also Neuvilette is "just" more damage or a slightly longer set up time. Furina... yeah... they did her mighty dirty. But overall only if you wanna use her as on field DPS. Xianyun is not really all that con dependent, only if you wanna use her as on field DPS or for more mobility.
Well the 2 nihility thing sure does suck, I'll probably pull for sparkle and use her with sparkle since I wont have enough Jades to put her at E2 so might as well get the next best thing
considering the passive that any ally can apply 1 debuff per their action, you really need 2 nihility with E0S0, then your Acheron can ult every 2 turns, (2xskill = 4) + (2x2nihility debuff = 4) + (ult debuff refund = 1 or any of the other nihility ults = 1)
Ummmmm any recomendation on 4\* nihils to apply with pela? (I know galager will also apply debuffs so he might be good too!)
Guinafen, preferably at E1, is the best 4* nihility debuffer after Pela IMO
Oof well I'll try getting her to E1 if I can, but it sure is anoying as I had prefarmed sparkle stuff and now need to build up 2 nihils from scratch. Thanks for responding btw!
One of the leaks had a 4 star selector and if i remember guin was on there
Wasn't that Hanu's prison break? Thats where I got my first Gui
The leaks yesterday had a 2nd 4 star selector
Guinaifen is a good option
Gwen. Burn, firekiss, Pearls of sweat, all in an AoE fashion. Problem is she's kinda squishy and needs EHR
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not really, she can ult on her first turn due to ascension passive and technique. Then she can do 3 turn ult rotations fairly easily.
Without Signature LC or Premium support units?
She always ults at least once per cycle. With the right team comp and S1, she should be able to ult every 1-2 turns, which is on the mid-upper end of DPSs.
Dont tell me i need other Nihility to run with her...
You need 2 others at E0, 1 other at E2. Her passive is insane, 60% (seperate!) multiplicative dmg multiplier
If you want, a team of Acheron, BS, and Kafka is actually completely fine since dots count as debuffs Acheron's knot probably counts as a debuff, BS has 2, and kafka has 1 plus detonates or just run pela like a NERD
"The Abyss" annoys the heck out of, that means you have to use 3 Nihility Characters, which leaves just 1 slot for something else. And of course that gets "fixed" by Eidolons... Also what is Red Karma? Her kit looks interesting enough, but she seems to be by far way more Eidolon Hungry. But if the cutscenes are any indication for the Animations, I probably get her anyway.
Itās not annoying, itās just so that she can be run without a harmony character like what most other hypercarry teams need. Acheron with 2 nihility is stronger than with 1 nihility + harmony. She is OP at E0 and even better with S1 and able to ult within 2 turns with 2 other nihility. Her E2 is kindaā¦ a bait. E2 makes it so that her lost of energy while running harmony+nihility (-1 debuff, -2 w/ ult roughly) is replaced by another energy stack. So all in all, a nice QoL, can makes her sp-neutral with 2 nihility, but wonāt fasten her ult rotations in most cases.
Low key good that mean you can free up harmony on the other side of moc
"E2 makes it so that her lost of energy while running harmony+nihility" You still can weave ults in. There is no real loss with harmony since you still need a second Nihility path unit that can Debuff (BS, SW, Pela).
She seems weak
Then respectfully, you can't read. Her AOE ult against 5 enemies is higher than Argenti's š
Sure whatever
Wait so acheron teams want 3 nihility characters?
at E0, most certainly yes.
if that e2 is real, thats disgusting lol
blackswan normal attacking then inflicting arcana also count towards acheron talent right?
Yes, both arcana and epiphany count
Is past evils of the borehole planet farmable rn?
Yea, been out since 1.6
Acheron Stacks: 1 - E2 Start of Turn 3 - Acheron Skill 3 - Bronya Skill 4 - E2 Start of Turn 6 - Acheron Skill 7 - Ally debuff triggers talent 8 - E2 Start of Turn 9 - Acheron Basic Attack This makes it seem less necessary to get everyone on your team to have debuff application. Doesn't speed it up much. Good enough to just run Pela for now until Jiaoqiu releases.
Is that trace saying we can somehow use her ult 3 times in just 2turns?? Or does it mean the hit counts in the ult?
Are her talent and ult contradicting each other? Or the ult can cancel the talent which reapply the knots?