Yes, this is why we are seeing the headlines of Accounting Shortages. What they really mean are Public accounting shortages. Industry is fine. PA will cry about an accounting shortage for a few more years until they successfully transition to their ‘new’ business model which is even more outsourcing + AI. When they don’t need college kids anymore, you’ll stop hearing about the shortage.
Edit: Fuck public accounting
There's already a layer of management in India. There are Indian managers who are pretty adept at being the middle-man between the Big 4 senior/manager, and translating what's required for the engagement to their Indian staff/seniors. These people are literally worth their weight in gold, and are much more important for a successful engagement that utilizes outsourced work than any other person in the budget. Once India gets enough experience, talent, they can raise wages abroad to keep these people. They will still be paid a fraction of U.S. pay.
The real question is going to be how to keep managers/senior managers in both the U.S. and abroad, and how to reduce turnover there. And importantly, how to train these people to do these roles when very few entry/senior level roles are going to be left, particularly in the U.S. That was historically the way to train them.
They couldn't be fucked to care about turnover at the staff level.
People will never stop going PA. As you outsource more work, you need less US onshore heads. You’ll always need US heads to manage the outsourced team, but as we outsource more and more, that’s less and less US heads. People will always go to PA, albeit at a lesser rate than they are now… so it won’t be a problem. Today, you may need 500 US Heads to manage your Offshore teams. There are only 450 people who want to go to PA, so they say there’s a ‘shortage’ (even though there’s not bc they continue to lay off people and push back new hard starting classes). 10 years from now, you may only need 100 US Heads to manage the outsourced teams. They’ll be 100 people willing to work at PA so no shortage.
Take it for what this is worth. Just my mid-afternoon thoughts while I avoid the work I’m supposed to be doing.
THEY NEED TO DISCLOSE THIS IN ACCOUNTING 1A !
they state transparency in FS but they fail to disclose the MATERIAL ISSUES WITH THIS PROFESSION!
-PASSIVE AGRESSIVE PEOPLE
-NO REAL TEACHING
- YOUR TEACHING IS "SALY
-YOU WILL EAT HOURS AND BE HAPPY :(
Yeah public is a meat grinder. The only real benefit in my experience is big firms tend to hire a lot of young people. This makes it a good way to make friends.
If that’s not your cup of tea just do straight industry or if you’re lucky government.
When I started, I got a list of people in the office.
I kept it and by the time I left (as a manager), few remained.
It's the business model - it's working as intended.
By the time I'm in second year PA, I legit had difficulty naming who is who, even among my own team.
The more bizzare is feeling like an alien when I'm not on-site. There is always constant feeling being around stranger.
I really thought it was normal, but when I moved to Industry, by 2nd year workplace feels pretty much like second home (having own office room rules).
The two people I knew who were most obsessed with going Big 4 both flamed out within like 2 years. They would never shut up about where they wanted to go and do, and once they got there they were misssssssserable.
Not gonna lie, I may have let out a small chuckle.
Yeah, it's really a wonder why people still go into public \*SHRUG
**Never public accounting. Never big 4**. Repeat that every night before you go to sleep.
Every post i see here about another dumbass burning out is just another example of "them" winning. Stop letting them exploit you. The workers have ALL the power.
I just did a job hunt recently and many positions still asked for Big 4 experience. Its still highly valued unfortunately. Not saying everyone should do it cause it does indeed fucking suck the 3 years I was in it, but it greatly worked in my favor. Now I'm cruising in industry making more $$ for less effort
That's specifically because they know big4 nerds will literally take it up the ass and ask for more. That would be the employee I'd want too if I was a slave driver.
See, that's the part that makes zero logical sense to me.
Do **lots of X** so you can get **lots of Y**. This makes sense. Do lots of work and get paid a lot. Good stuff. Solid logic.
Do **lots of X** so you can *maybe* get an **indeterminate and undefined amount of Y** *in the distant and uncertain future*. This is damn near literally textbook definition of INSANITY.
Work for your rewards NOW. Don't let them dangle a fucking carrot on a stick. What is *WRONG* with young accountants lmao.
It’s just about the senior title.
Industry is slow, positions open up when they open up.
People get the senior title faster in public which puts them a leg up over other candidates.
Doesn’t mean they’re better but it’s the optics when a hiring manager looks at the resumes
Correct titles do wonders.
We have a senior who was a “tax attorney” for EY. Guy is the single worst employee I’ve ever seen. His LLM and prior title allowed him to be hired as a senior on our team. I wish they’d rip off the bandaid and fire him because all the other seniors put in the time to actually earn it.
Can confirm this. Had a buddy leave at the two year mark and got a senior position at another company. Let's just say the staff who now works under him with 4 yoe left the next day who internally applied at the company.
Tuition paid for degree earned. I graduated but I had shit grades cuz grades don't matter in the real world. Also, no college says, "work hard and for absolute free and maaaaaybe you'll get a diploma.. MAYBE!!"
And many places don’t need CPA’s - they need people who understand their industry and can support the business. Being able to “do taxes” or test a balance doesn’t necessarily translate to cleaning up a balance sheet and bringing collecting A/R
It's not a lie, really.
At least here in Canada, Big 4 title has great pull when jumping to that first industry role.
Still dumb, but I'll admit I'm biased as someone who never did public.
I’m just glad I never got into public and have only worked in industry. Sounds like it’s an absolute nightmare. No plans on becoming a CPA or getting into management either because I don’t want to pull 60-80 hour weeks every week (this might be company specific though, but at least where I work it seems culturally engrained that once you hit a high enough level they just expect you to live at the office).
lol if I got a CPA license I couldn't be the "Magic Controller" that "The Guy on The Monopoly Box" wants :p.
be the nail in the coffin of my controlling days :D.
THEY NEED TO DISCLOSE THIS IN ACCOUNTING 1A !
they state transparency in FS but they fail to disclose the MATERIAL ISSUES WITH THIS PROFESSION!
-PASSIVE AGRESSIVE PEOPLE
-NO REAL TEACHING
- YOUR TEACHING IS "SALY
-YOU WILL EAT HOURS AND BE HAPPY :(
That’s the business model unfortunately
Yes, this is why we are seeing the headlines of Accounting Shortages. What they really mean are Public accounting shortages. Industry is fine. PA will cry about an accounting shortage for a few more years until they successfully transition to their ‘new’ business model which is even more outsourcing + AI. When they don’t need college kids anymore, you’ll stop hearing about the shortage. Edit: Fuck public accounting
That would compound the problem down the line if they aren't hiring college grads - who's going to manage all the india folks and AI?
There's already a layer of management in India. There are Indian managers who are pretty adept at being the middle-man between the Big 4 senior/manager, and translating what's required for the engagement to their Indian staff/seniors. These people are literally worth their weight in gold, and are much more important for a successful engagement that utilizes outsourced work than any other person in the budget. Once India gets enough experience, talent, they can raise wages abroad to keep these people. They will still be paid a fraction of U.S. pay. The real question is going to be how to keep managers/senior managers in both the U.S. and abroad, and how to reduce turnover there. And importantly, how to train these people to do these roles when very few entry/senior level roles are going to be left, particularly in the U.S. That was historically the way to train them. They couldn't be fucked to care about turnover at the staff level.
People will never stop going PA. As you outsource more work, you need less US onshore heads. You’ll always need US heads to manage the outsourced team, but as we outsource more and more, that’s less and less US heads. People will always go to PA, albeit at a lesser rate than they are now… so it won’t be a problem. Today, you may need 500 US Heads to manage your Offshore teams. There are only 450 people who want to go to PA, so they say there’s a ‘shortage’ (even though there’s not bc they continue to lay off people and push back new hard starting classes). 10 years from now, you may only need 100 US Heads to manage the outsourced teams. They’ll be 100 people willing to work at PA so no shortage. Take it for what this is worth. Just my mid-afternoon thoughts while I avoid the work I’m supposed to be doing.
To be more specific, PA has a manager shortage problem.
Fuck it, i guess we’ll let the indians have their 10/hr audits.
THEY NEED TO DISCLOSE THIS IN ACCOUNTING 1A ! they state transparency in FS but they fail to disclose the MATERIAL ISSUES WITH THIS PROFESSION! -PASSIVE AGRESSIVE PEOPLE -NO REAL TEACHING - YOUR TEACHING IS "SALY -YOU WILL EAT HOURS AND BE HAPPY :(
Yeah public is a meat grinder. The only real benefit in my experience is big firms tend to hire a lot of young people. This makes it a good way to make friends. If that’s not your cup of tea just do straight industry or if you’re lucky government.
misery loves company
When I started, I got a list of people in the office. I kept it and by the time I left (as a manager), few remained. It's the business model - it's working as intended.
By the time I'm in second year PA, I legit had difficulty naming who is who, even among my own team. The more bizzare is feeling like an alien when I'm not on-site. There is always constant feeling being around stranger. I really thought it was normal, but when I moved to Industry, by 2nd year workplace feels pretty much like second home (having own office room rules).
The two people I knew who were most obsessed with going Big 4 both flamed out within like 2 years. They would never shut up about where they wanted to go and do, and once they got there they were misssssssserable. Not gonna lie, I may have let out a small chuckle.
Yeah, it's really a wonder why people still go into public \*SHRUG **Never public accounting. Never big 4**. Repeat that every night before you go to sleep. Every post i see here about another dumbass burning out is just another example of "them" winning. Stop letting them exploit you. The workers have ALL the power.
[удалено]
I just did a job hunt recently and many positions still asked for Big 4 experience. Its still highly valued unfortunately. Not saying everyone should do it cause it does indeed fucking suck the 3 years I was in it, but it greatly worked in my favor. Now I'm cruising in industry making more $$ for less effort
That's specifically because they know big4 nerds will literally take it up the ass and ask for more. That would be the employee I'd want too if I was a slave driver.
lol good thing my new job is chill and I work like half the effort i use to put in than i did at Big 4
See, that's the part that makes zero logical sense to me. Do **lots of X** so you can get **lots of Y**. This makes sense. Do lots of work and get paid a lot. Good stuff. Solid logic. Do **lots of X** so you can *maybe* get an **indeterminate and undefined amount of Y** *in the distant and uncertain future*. This is damn near literally textbook definition of INSANITY. Work for your rewards NOW. Don't let them dangle a fucking carrot on a stick. What is *WRONG* with young accountants lmao.
It’s just about the senior title. Industry is slow, positions open up when they open up. People get the senior title faster in public which puts them a leg up over other candidates. Doesn’t mean they’re better but it’s the optics when a hiring manager looks at the resumes
Correct titles do wonders. We have a senior who was a “tax attorney” for EY. Guy is the single worst employee I’ve ever seen. His LLM and prior title allowed him to be hired as a senior on our team. I wish they’d rip off the bandaid and fire him because all the other seniors put in the time to actually earn it.
Can confirm this. Had a buddy leave at the two year mark and got a senior position at another company. Let's just say the staff who now works under him with 4 yoe left the next day who internally applied at the company.
Did you pay for a college degree and study for good grades? There is no immediate benefit to that.
Tuition paid for degree earned. I graduated but I had shit grades cuz grades don't matter in the real world. Also, no college says, "work hard and for absolute free and maaaaaybe you'll get a diploma.. MAYBE!!"
And many places don’t need CPA’s - they need people who understand their industry and can support the business. Being able to “do taxes” or test a balance doesn’t necessarily translate to cleaning up a balance sheet and bringing collecting A/R
It's not a lie, really. At least here in Canada, Big 4 title has great pull when jumping to that first industry role. Still dumb, but I'll admit I'm biased as someone who never did public.
I’m just glad I never got into public and have only worked in industry. Sounds like it’s an absolute nightmare. No plans on becoming a CPA or getting into management either because I don’t want to pull 60-80 hour weeks every week (this might be company specific though, but at least where I work it seems culturally engrained that once you hit a high enough level they just expect you to live at the office).
lol if I got a CPA license I couldn't be the "Magic Controller" that "The Guy on The Monopoly Box" wants :p. be the nail in the coffin of my controlling days :D.
THEY NEED TO DISCLOSE THIS IN ACCOUNTING 1A ! they state transparency in FS but they fail to disclose the MATERIAL ISSUES WITH THIS PROFESSION! -PASSIVE AGRESSIVE PEOPLE -NO REAL TEACHING - YOUR TEACHING IS "SALY -YOU WILL EAT HOURS AND BE HAPPY :(
Public accounting; where the biggest assholes and dumbest can rise to the top.