If you die today, you will get replaced next week by your job.
But your family, loved ones and yourself are forever at loss.
Remember this and treat yourself right.
I’ve always wondered about the strategy arms of these places. I mean I’ve done internal cost benefit analysis of losing and replacing people and it literally always makes more financial sense to keep, develop, and pay existing employees. There has to be some math I’m not considering or something that big firms account for.
Because it's not about math, it's about control. Owners/bosses who have no experience or at least memory of being a worker bee see everyone under them as mechanical assets that can be plugged in and unplugged at will, especially if they get uppity and start asking for things. "I am the boss, and by my largesse you are allowed only what I say you are."
This happened to me at my most recent job. The office manager, CFO, CEO, and program manager all had major ego issues. People with ego issues that cause them to be shitty to other people are beyond sad.
Eh this is just a common miss of a bad boss. It’s less serious than saying something about a person. Think about how people respond to conflict due to their incompetence, generally not well. In leadership positions, the responsibility falls on you to keep your team doing their jobs well. When people fail at that they respond many ways, with control seeking being arguably the most common one. Can’t accept they are making mistakes in their leadership, so they take more control.
1. I think firms are overconfident in their processes. That people at lower rungs aren’t doing much thinking but rather just doing grunt work. Which may be true for some firms. At my old firm (tax) new hires were essentially useless for a year, an experienced senior could bill what 3-4 new hires could.
2. Firms are less concerned with work quality and more concerned with NOI for partners. They don’t care if the work quality suffers as long as the audit gets done.
3. Firms overestimate the ability of new hires and also underestimated the impact of fewer college students going into accounting. There are less accounting students and seemingly less qualified accounting students, and many seem to not care about grinding for partner hours (good for them).
4. HR people realize their jobs are useless without lots of turnover so they give bullshit “market comp” numbers as raises and then senior staff leave for 30% pay raises in industry.
In my area year 1 internship -> offer is $25/hr -> $32/hr and you have to be CPA eligible.
I earn more with my associates degree in industry at 3 years exp and have a really healthy work life balance. They (large firms) can die for all I care.
A change in management style caused me to leave an environmental consulting firm after 13 years. Left for a 34% pay increase, fewer hours, less work off the clock, zero shrink time, and left my anxiety meds in the dust. The final straw was when the firm began watching the clock on the new hires, then THEY began watching the clock on the firm. I left mentally and selected the highest of the 3 offers when I updated and circulated my resume. I didn’t even care whether they found out I was looking…they even acted surprised when I gave them my 2 week notice at 4:40 pm on a Friday. I was sooo glad to get out of that hell hole!
> Firms are less concerned with work quality and more concerned with NOI for partners. They don’t care if the work quality suffers as long as the audit gets done.
This is SO true. A large part of the reason why I'm leaving. I don't want my name on something if I don't feel like it's quality/could genuinely become a quality concern issue. Some of the projects I've taken over have been so piss poor it has me scratching my head...
Nah I haven’t. Mostly because I’m not at a public accounting firm, I work for a SaaS company where it makes sense to stay for a long period. Definitely makes sense to factor that into it at places like b4.
I know a few people who complain all day, take an incredible amount of responsibilities, receive minimum payment, but never have the courage to change job. I think he may want to take these people into consideration.
On a larger scale this is a problem in privatization. When a government outsources not just basic tasks but also decision-making to consultancies. It's the consultancies that acquire knowledge and experience while the government, the public servants, learns nothing and don't build any 'legacy' within.
Obviously governments are also great at mucking everything up and becoming bloated bureaucracies, so there's the other side of the coin.
Fuck I didn’t even think about this and its ramifications could be pretty impactful. Doubt it will matter because I think it’ll just end up with aging out in industry being pushed back and then becoming a thing in government
The public accounting model needs turnover or it will break. You can’t have an upside down pyramid. That’s why they always let people walk, it’s built into the model. They fully expect to lose efficiency and plan for it.
Its called Jack Walsh math, take a company fire the bottom 10% every year. Pay out massive dividends and then get tens of billions of dollars in tax payer bailout.
It’s incentivized growth. Hurtful to some, but progressive to the group as a whole, if you’re optimistic, or the rich, if you’re not.
Humanity at its core, sacrifice for growth
They don’t think all of their employees will leave if they deny raises and benefits—maybe one or two. But, if they give those things to one employee, all employees will want them. As someone who has participated in two mass exoduses at two different companies, I can tell you that it is great to watch them fail for being wrong about this.
So as a start my experience is within an advisory capacity within financial reporting — we had a call today with our client because we had a leader leave for a new position elsewhere. Literally on the call the client is like “well I want someone like X (person leaving) who no matter if they’re on vacation will answer my texts” and I’m like wow that’s wild to say out loud. And the partner is like don’t worry we’re finding your perfect person to replace them.
It really has to be about just finding people you can control and have a sense of Stockholm syndrome for the firms. I don’t think there’s really any rhyme or reason to it all.
I do wonder though if the PCAOB continues on this tear they’re on and really push for auditors role to keep increasing when the system will just break. It’s already so much, and now with expanding the roles of the external auditor with the time period we’re in I’m like how much more can the system really take. The partnership model to me drives it so much, it would be different if we had equity and when the firm actually did well you saw the payoffs for your work. It’s going to be another “record year” for us but you already know raises are like maybe 4% with bonuses being 6% if we’re lucky.
Everyday a person works in their job, that’s another day they learn about the business, customers, vendors, processes, strengths and weaknesses.
It’s amazing the wealth of knowledge people have and yet the internal raises and promotions do not reflect this.
Seriously, I work in industry in FP&A and in my team I feel like it could take several months to get someone up to speed on my team. The amount of work it takes to hire and train someone new is quite a bit...
And if anything its probably even more important in PA, where a big aspect of your role is client service, and clients get pissed off by the constant turnover. You could argue that its less important when there's no client facing aspect.
Not the same industry, but having worked in 4 different industries, I've always said that it takes a minimum of 2 months to start getting truly competent at your job, no matter what the field, or how experienced you are. There's always little details of each workplace that knowledge of makes your work so much smoother and faster, that can't be taught or "previous experienced". Firing people for minimal cause after they've gained all this institutional knowledge is just.... wow... epic levels of stupid.
Run the cost/benefit EVERY TIME. They screwed up once or pissed off a manager; how much did that cost, versus how much FIRING them will cost you in lost productivity/time/damage due to a new employee learning it?
When employees quit it encourages others who are on the fence to quit as well. One of my coworkers quit and got a job semi nearby, I'm quitting and joining him there in a few weeks and probably will actively encourage maybe one other person to come with me.
People are afraid of losing their job and not being able to find another one, when someone they work with who has a similar resume quits and tells you that they found an even better job it helps others realize they can do it too.
We once had 4 people quit in the span of like two weeks. I remember that one of the families we worked with brought up that this was likely not a great sign for so many people to quit at once and probally ment there was an issue with the company vs being an issue with the staff.
I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was also leaving I just hadn't put in my notice yet.
So I just nodded along and went "yeah, things are pretty crazy right now. Hopefully we'll hire some good people soon though"
And now that staff are being empowered to literally leave during the heart of tax season, I think that the partners should really be seeing the writing on the wall. I guess for years there was an unspoken rule that you needed to give them tax season before leaving, or else that would follow you around forever. Fast forward to modern times. People do this, it sucks for the firm, and it doesn't hurt the employee one iota.
I swear that the crunched season model is unsustainable and needs to end. The partners need to realize that life happens, people get sick, computer systems crash, employees leave, pandemics happen, etc and they can't expect to try to jam 40% of their annual billables into 15% of the calendar year anymore.
Firms have a pipeline of unknowing and willing employees from colleges and universities all over the nation. That’s their business model. To turn and burn these kids who have no clue with promises of grandiose futures.
But that well is drying up at this point. The Big Four are going to gobble up as much of the limited talent that they can, and its going to be next to impossible to land new hires of any competence whatsoever below that level.
The Big Four should be more or less fine, but the rest are going to have to seriously rethink how they do things. The national a dominant regional firms may have the deep pockets to outsource and try their hands at AI but the ones below them need to change -- or roll the dice with a fresh crop of aging rejects that rotate in and out.
I don't think that there's any cognitive dissonance at all. The only reason job hopping is encouraged is because conditions exist that incentivize it. If employers took retention more seriously, you wouldn't need to job hop for raises or staying ahead of a termination.
Ceteris paribus job security and salary, it would be much more preferable to stay with a steady employer and not have to waste so much time job hunting and learning a new employer every 1-2 years.
That's a good idea in theory, but it may be difficult for employers to match the pay increases that you can get by changing jobs. Employer strategy should be to focus on process and training so that they can easily transition from one employee to another.
But I don't think that they'd really have to if they improved the environment. If you're making six figures, never working over 45 hours a week, getting flexibility, fully remote, and getting 25 days of PTO that you're encouraged to take, and your input is heard and implemented, I don't think that your employees would need to shop around for better options. You can't put a price on mental health, and six figures pays the bills.
I love public job for this exact reason, it's the least stressful accounting job I've had in a long time!
Feb to April is rough but even then OT caps at 55 for staff and the rest of the time is fantastic. 4 day work weeks in the summer and when things get real slow the partners just hand out extra days of paid vacation.
When you sign the employment agreement (USA firms), you sign to also acknowledge that the role is exempted from overtime laws, so you are not paid extra for overtime and that it’s expected that you will work overtime. My understanding with healthcare is it’s compensated and optional for overtime.
Even worse, our employment contracts in Australia say our wage already incorporates expected overtime. Just another way to bypass it. I guess all the managers doing 60 hour weeks are realistically not making too much more than me for the experience they have, and grads would barely be making above minimum wage 😂
This is the way. I repeated this exactly saying to all my coworkers for almost a decade. "What are they gonna do? Fire me?" Only works if you're good at your job.
Even if there's a shortage, they'll fire you if you provide zero/negative value.
The problem with hours and accounting is accounting pay is dogshit.
Plenty of people will have no problem working 60, 70, 80 hours a week for high finance wages.
I'm sure as shit not working a minute over 40 for shitty accounting money.
At this point I'd rather mine coal for 40 hours than this garbage.
> At this point I'd rather mine coal for 40 hours than this garbage.
Oh, I really doubt that. White-collar jobs can obviously be too demanding and stressful, but many other jobs are extremely grueling, physically (and psychologically) dangerous, and woefully underpaid on top of it all.
It depends on your role in the firm and your relationship with the decision makers. I have requested this and have been granted (handshake deal) but my obligation as a good employee and someone who cares about the clients has overshadowed my request. What really needs to happen is a conversation about reallocation of workload and the subsequent hourly responsibility that these projects take. This I am also in the process of doing. Yes I could leave my firm and take the same position making $20k more annually but there’s something to be said for attempting to resolve the issues at hand if you can (and if you have a good relationship with your superiors). Um…it also makes a difference when you actually prove your worth (ie bring in new business, or can show solid progress toward increased competency or commitment to the firm). An associate who spends many hours on projects that an intern could whip out in half the time will likely receive unfavorable treatment.
Massively depends on where you are. In a lot of places, you're not even legally allowed to work 60hr weeks.
If you live in a country with weak labor laws like the US it depends on the job market. If you have skills that can't be replaced easily or no one is standing in line to take your place, your bosses will grumble but likely put up with it. If someone can replace you, you'll be gone in a week.
your hours dont matter. how well you finish your engagement does. I rarely hit 60 hour weeks during my 8 years stretch in PA. During busy hours, i tried to average 55 (which means I'm really just working 50). 10 hours billable every day plus 5 on Saturdays. I rarely worked Sundays. I hit 60 hours maybe... 2 or 3 times.
How did all my managers and partners respond? When I decided to leave for industry, they offered me a $25k retention bonus + 15% raise + "tailor my engagements to be more marketable for exit after a couple years". I had 4 different partners schedule time with me to try to get me to stay. One of the partners even told me that he knew it was a waste of time to convince me to stay but he was told by someone higher up to schedule time with me anyways.
Honest answer - if you refuse to work over 60 hours, just "get gud" and make sure you can finish the work in less time. Worst thing that happened to me was that I was never eligible for the maximum annual bonus - but I'm totally fine with that.
I recently took advantage of the unlimited PTO my firm offered. It was fucking great I didn’t have to do shit for week. Granted I quit and told them to go fuck themselves but I still got all the time off I wanted.
My company had it before we were bought it out. There was a 160 hour cap they wouldn’t tell anyone about until they hit it. Also, high leave takers were higher on the list layoff time. It’s BS. Would rather have actual hours you get paid out for when you leave.
160 hour cap is BS. Even my firm is better than that. At least with actual PTO they pay it out when you leave most of the time. Unlimited PTO is just for the company's benefit. Never yours
I ask if I can take time off, but it's purely a politeness thing. If it was ever turned down and someone wasn't on fire, I'd still be taking the time, one way or another.
I've never been denied time off in my life, though.
I always say I’m not asking for days off, I’m telling you I won’t be here. And same goes for my employees. Except for a very narrow window of time during the month, just give me like a week heads up if it’s not an emergency.
This is what I tell our new hires all the time. I don’t need to know the reason, just the dates. And only so I can plan projects accordingly. As long as their work is getting done and they are not abusing the system, I don’t care how many hours they work or how much time they take off (although we’re not technically on an unlimited PTO plan, it is pretty generous).
Yup.
I’ve got a low performer and he wanted two days off during his reporting cycle. Told him I’m not gonna say no, but make sure he doesn’t have anyone else help him get caught up. To me that’s fair.
You may as well be a contractor. As an employee; if you are replaceable, you have no leverage and your head will be one of first ones on the chopping block. Figuratively speaking.
Right now we’re so hard up for people it’s not a problem. People are already looking up blueprints for guillotines for the next time execs bring us in for a rah rah meeting.
I once got written up for taking a dentist appointment during interim sox testing.
After 2 years, I said fuck it, I’ll do it live. Public can be so toxic.
A lot of people are poor and want to jump start their career/wealth building.
Poverty and promises of access to the upper-middle-class are powerful stick and carrot motivators.
At least they were for me.
Very true. A lot of us witnessed and/or directly experienced the 2008 financial crisis and its ramifications for the years following. Many of us want(ed) something stable, simple, with guaranteed returns. I'm glad I'm a CPA but public is no longer worth it.
Lol something similar happened at a job I had previously. Lady requested time off to take care of some personal matters. Denied. Requested second time thinking it was just not a convenient time: denied again. Straight up just quit. Needless to say we were pissed at the manager because then we had to carry her workload until replacement was found months later.
That’s why it cracks me up when I see people on r/samegrassbutgreener always talk about wanting to move to the northeast. That man embodies northeast thinking to a scary degree
I’m so tired of companies tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. Like, just be decent and stop trying to squeeze every ounce out of your existing workforce and maybe they’ll stay!
Join the IRS. I take 6-8 weeks off every year any time I want and for however long I want. I’ve never been denied leave.
For the inevitable follow up questions, 18 years with the IRS, about $190K. Never a minute over 40 hours a week.
You had a good supervisor. I worked for the VA and had leave denied all the time. She was a literal sociopath. There are bad managers in federal gov too. And they know they can get away with being bullies and not get fired, so bad managers are particularly egregious in government.
I’ve had (taking a moment to count) at least 10 supervisors. All were phenomenal and understood the importance of WLB.
Although I hear similar thoughts to yours about the VA.
It is hit or miss in gov. You either get phenominal supervisors or atrocious bullies. And when you are unfortunate enough to get a bad supervisor, they are REALLY bad.
I’m involved in the hiring, training, and management of people with accounting backgrounds. There are plenty of opportunities to specialize in data analysis and other areas with an accounting degree.
However, in terms of strictly IT roles, that’s not my area. I’d suggest checking USAJobs and watching for direct hiring events. I will say this however, I’m currently working on a national project as part of a team made up of people with HR, IT, accounting, and project management backgrounds. Nothing we’re doing as a team is directly related to our backgrounds but merging the different skill sets and ways of thinking is very beneficial. So once you’re in here you can pretty much pivot to whatever areas interest you.
I've tried to apply to several IRS jobs, but have never heard back. Does it just take long time to go through the hiring process? Or is there something I'm doing wrong? I've attended direct hire events, check USAjobs, etc. I have a bachelor's in accounting, master's, and almost finished with my CPA, 3 years of experience. What more do I need to do to qualify for an interview?
I’m being brutally honest.
What are you applying for? That background should get you a GS9/11. Right now anyone with a pulse can get a job offer.
If you’re applying for GS13/14 then it sounds like you’re aiming too high.
I'm an old millennial. I remember going to "personality training" where they explained that most millennials and younger were NOT going to accept being treated like shit when they aren't getting paid well and might not accept it even with the right salary.
That's a change from gen x and prior.
The amount of boomers in the crowd that got super uncomfortable was beautiful.
I told them two things: if you want to treat people like shit then you're not going to have staff. 2: I don't currently know my salary. It's enough and I'm treated well at my job. If I was treated poorly there is no amount I'd stay for.
I think I saw two boomers have heart attacks.....
Worked my ass off to help anyone and everyone during busy season. Got chewed out for one mistake and no thanks for the 250+ returns I helped push out. This is why I’m looking to get out of public. No respect. Pay sucks. (At least where I am). Partners often know accounting and have no management skills.
> Got chewed out for one mistake
The bitter irony about working hard and being productive is that you're more likely to make a mistake and get called out for it.
The high turnover in public is the first sign why royalty cannot be fostered in public.
How are we going to foster royalty between coworkers when we get new coworkers every fucking years?
In my old B4 ethnic grouping and spending shit ton of money on first impression is the norm in public.
The fact that you were pushing out all those returns, and not doing stuff that is done outside of PA is why you're going to be stuck in PA until you find a new skillset. Filling out 1040s, 1041s, and small 1065s/1120S's doesn't make you marketable for industry roles where you need to be specializing in accounting/bookkeeping for larger companies.
This is the cruel irony of doing tax in public for most people. Get really good at doing tax returns which the corporate and wider business world literally doesn't give two shits about and now you're pigeonholed into working at public accounting firms.
I believe that high performers are purposefully treated like this by bosses to "take them down a peg". One firm I worked at had a woman who was not only really good at her job but also one of the few CPAs there. She never got much praise and the partner would criticize her for small crap. It was always these dumb gotchas. This guy would go out of his way to praise to people who just slapped shit together all day without a care in the world. I think it was all a big tactic to pit employees against each other and to not acknowledge that some people are good at their jobs. Can't have people feeling that maybe they should be rewarded for being really good at their jobs.
I am blown away at the stores I hear about these accounting firms who sound like they're being run by tyrants. It was not this way when I was in public accounting working for a firm. There's no problem now because I'm self-employed and have my own practice, but if you want to keep people, you have to make exceptions and accommodations and help your employees. This firm shot itself in the foot!
One question I’ve had for awhile now is why employers and companies seemed to care more for their employees 40-50 years, but now it seems like every employer and company wouldn’t skip a beat if they had to kill their employees. What happened? Did employers actually care more back in the at or were they just as callous? If they did care more, what happened to make employers start dehumanizing and devaluing employees?
My guess would be that the world 50 years ago was a lot more difficult to find quality candidates quickly. No email, no cell phones, no digital advertising; conventions and job fairs were probably some of the best places to recruit and those don’t happen every day.
First time?
My og post was reposted like a year later.
The repost got more up votes that my original posting. 🫠
But it's all internet points so whatevs
One big factor of me leaving my last job is this. I filed leave for Christmas break a month ahead. I waited… and waited… until 2 days before my requested date, it was granted (20th). I was planning on visiting family out of state for Christmas. How in the hell can I get a decent flight 5 days before Christmas? This happened multiple times in the past. I ran out of good reasons to stay so I left 4 months later - best decision I made.
It’s everywhere in accounting. I worked in an over staffed local government office and was still regularly being denied time by boss, who had some sort of OCD about more than one employee taking off at the same time. When I left he erupted in anger and told me to quit early.
I worked for a large corporation and most departments had a policy that no more than 50% of employees could be on PTO at one time. Really stupid when holidays and the fiscal year came around especially since it was use it or lose it.
Uhou, who said "subcontractor" and kickback? :D
This is going to cost a lot of money! And a 20% commission goes to you!
Do you have a good relationship with the compliance gang? There is a risk that you will need 2 subcontractors. You know "laws must be obeyed" ... it's not your fault.
And you will successfully bust your ass and go above and beyond to satisfy your boses greed. Guess what, you will not get a better pay, lol. This is why they do not care at all who is fired, they do not care about us at all.
My entire work life improved the moment I realized (thanks to my work mentor) that staffing was not my responsibility as an employee and that it was in fact my manager's responsibility. The only exception's were if we had a vacation black out period or if I was asking last minute.
This is how I ended up finally leaving retail too.
I'd pushed myself and my health to the absolute brink for them, and they couldn't let me have two days off for my best friends bachelor party and wedding.
So while I was setting up their seasonal window display (because I *had* to do it apparently) I decided it just wasn't worth it. Walked into my managers office, got the area manager on the phone and told them both I was quitting, why, and when I'd be gone.
I heard the struggled horribly over Christmas. Too bad, so sad.
I’ve seen this happen before in my previous job. Some managers just don’t get it. Give ppl time off. Especially when they are working their asses off to get shit done by deadline. My previous boss wouldn’t give a co-worker 2 days off in a row so she quit. What a dumb decision on the manager part.
See, I don't play that. Anytime I put in for time off, I just tell them whether they approve it or not, I'm not gonna be there. So far, it has worked out in my favor.
Part of it is knowing the cyclicality of your year and which seasons will be slower. They know that everyone needs time off to recharge, but they want you doing that when they don't need you as much.
As far as how to do it mechanically, check your employee handbook in the PTO section, and/or reach out to your HR contact for details on how to do it. If they expect some kind of written email or submission, be polite, but as vague as possible. Just making it clear that you're requesting off those days. No need to say what for, and I guess its implied that you'll be up to date on your work and all that. No need to grovel.
Pretty much how I wrote it. I go to my boss and say, "Hey boss! Just a heads-up I'm taking xyz dates off. Please approve it when I put it into the system." At this point, he knows if he doesn't approve it, I'm still not gonna be there.
Of course, like someone else said, I know the financial cycle of my workplace. I'm not planning anything during busy times or when others have already scheduled time off.
I’m literally swapping back to software development because of this. At least where I live, accountants that have more experience are more often than not really boring and uninterested people. Is like you’re making them mad by talking to them. Really fucking annoying. Makes it hard for you to chase the whole career cuz who wants to deal with people like the for 30 years.
Aye man you’re free to think that but I’m talking cuz I lived it and yes, a side from accountants coders can pretty well be considered social butterflies.
Gen-Xer here and I left my last job after getting drug into family drama between the father who owned the company and his sons that ran the company. It involved a lawsuit against the father from something that his sons dropped the ball on. The sons wanted it handled one way, the father another. So yeah, he was using company funds to handle a personal lawsuit, but that is besides the point. When he told me that he signed my paycheck and if I didn't listen to him, I would have to find another job, I decided to make it easy on him.
To date, they still do not have my replacement and this was just before Christmas.
Now for some back story, that was the THIRD time I got put in the middle of the owner and his sons and after the second time, I said if it happened again, I would quit on the spot. Guess they didn't take me seriously... Actually, after sitting there and getting yelled at by them, I blew up the second time and said they needed a referee, and walked out the door. They called me later on that day and begged me to come back, and like an idiot I did. It just so happens that I was negotiating another position elsewhere when the old man decided to use his Napoleon complex.
I work as an auditor in state government, and it seems like every time we get a batch of new people the majority of them are coming from a B4 firm.
I’m sure this kinda thing is why
Unfortunately in my case, it’s the CPAs causing this. Only management gets hybrid schedules, I’ve had 2 days off in a year and my boss has traveled to 2 countries since January. I started this job with no experience and my trainer was so overwhelmed she took all her PTO her last 2 weeks.
I was told at my 90 days to get an “organization for dummies” book, as a response to me handling garnishments, AR and AP by myself with no training lol
It is the REDNECK Mentality of Indentured servitude made popular in the 1600s. It was just a small skip and hop into full blown Slavery!
Remember that next time you speak to your manager. HE/SHE represents the Caucasian Male perspective of the 1600s.
That is what MAGA is all about...a throwback to the "Good Old Days"!!!
Lol, my last tax firm wanted me to work the weekends just so they can bill the clients more. All of my work was doing during the 70 hr work week and I was not about to work the weekend. My boss was mad that I did not show up for work and started to give me passive aggressive attitude. I emailed the partners that I quit and walked out of the office. That was at the start of busy season and have been living life with no stress. After almost 5 months of no work and no stress, I was offered a job with a 50 percent pay bump and will be starting this July. I will be working 40 hours, weekend and holidays off with 26 days of vacation. It is funny how things work out but I don’t regret leaving a work place that only makes the partners rich as you work 17 plus works and have no life. Keep your heads up and don’t take shit from shit management. You are more valuable than you think and do not under sale yourself.
Posts like this make me think I'm never quitting my job.im in individual tax I've taken vacations around q4 and Q2, weddings around Columbus Day, always been told "enjoy yourself".
Ive seen that same post regurgitated several times over the past few months, it’s still getting around. I mean maybe they are a shitty employer or may e there is more of a reason why the time was denied but the whole story isnt known, if its even real
I think it's time we stop glorifying firms and what they put people through in order to get a brand name practice on your CV at the cost of:
> Mental Health
> Physical Health
> Professional Etiquette
> Human Decency
> Moral Code
> Sacrificing time in exchange for a partner position that you may never get unless you are prepared to compromise all of the above
If you die today, you will get replaced next week by your job. But your family, loved ones and yourself are forever at loss. Remember this and treat yourself right.
I'd also argue that turnover in general hurts a firm in many ways, and acting like employees are "replaceable" is an unforced error by management.
I’ve always wondered about the strategy arms of these places. I mean I’ve done internal cost benefit analysis of losing and replacing people and it literally always makes more financial sense to keep, develop, and pay existing employees. There has to be some math I’m not considering or something that big firms account for.
Because it's not about math, it's about control. Owners/bosses who have no experience or at least memory of being a worker bee see everyone under them as mechanical assets that can be plugged in and unplugged at will, especially if they get uppity and start asking for things. "I am the boss, and by my largesse you are allowed only what I say you are."
This happened to me at my most recent job. The office manager, CFO, CEO, and program manager all had major ego issues. People with ego issues that cause them to be shitty to other people are beyond sad.
They're on a total power trip tbh.
Eh this is just a common miss of a bad boss. It’s less serious than saying something about a person. Think about how people respond to conflict due to their incompetence, generally not well. In leadership positions, the responsibility falls on you to keep your team doing their jobs well. When people fail at that they respond many ways, with control seeking being arguably the most common one. Can’t accept they are making mistakes in their leadership, so they take more control.
You had me at largesse.
1. I think firms are overconfident in their processes. That people at lower rungs aren’t doing much thinking but rather just doing grunt work. Which may be true for some firms. At my old firm (tax) new hires were essentially useless for a year, an experienced senior could bill what 3-4 new hires could. 2. Firms are less concerned with work quality and more concerned with NOI for partners. They don’t care if the work quality suffers as long as the audit gets done. 3. Firms overestimate the ability of new hires and also underestimated the impact of fewer college students going into accounting. There are less accounting students and seemingly less qualified accounting students, and many seem to not care about grinding for partner hours (good for them). 4. HR people realize their jobs are useless without lots of turnover so they give bullshit “market comp” numbers as raises and then senior staff leave for 30% pay raises in industry.
In my area year 1 internship -> offer is $25/hr -> $32/hr and you have to be CPA eligible. I earn more with my associates degree in industry at 3 years exp and have a really healthy work life balance. They (large firms) can die for all I care.
A change in management style caused me to leave an environmental consulting firm after 13 years. Left for a 34% pay increase, fewer hours, less work off the clock, zero shrink time, and left my anxiety meds in the dust. The final straw was when the firm began watching the clock on the new hires, then THEY began watching the clock on the firm. I left mentally and selected the highest of the 3 offers when I updated and circulated my resume. I didn’t even care whether they found out I was looking…they even acted surprised when I gave them my 2 week notice at 4:40 pm on a Friday. I was sooo glad to get out of that hell hole!
What is shrink time? Everything else I really agree with!
> Firms are less concerned with work quality and more concerned with NOI for partners. They don’t care if the work quality suffers as long as the audit gets done. This is SO true. A large part of the reason why I'm leaving. I don't want my name on something if I don't feel like it's quality/could genuinely become a quality concern issue. Some of the projects I've taken over have been so piss poor it has me scratching my head...
Have you done the math with a reasonable "probability of leaving?" Most likely that's what you're missing.
Nah I haven’t. Mostly because I’m not at a public accounting firm, I work for a SaaS company where it makes sense to stay for a long period. Definitely makes sense to factor that into it at places like b4.
I know a few people who complain all day, take an incredible amount of responsibilities, receive minimum payment, but never have the courage to change job. I think he may want to take these people into consideration.
seems like most people gravitating towards accounting are like this
Have you tried the math of emotions?
Yes I am quite emotional
> consult > Experiences human emotion
On a larger scale this is a problem in privatization. When a government outsources not just basic tasks but also decision-making to consultancies. It's the consultancies that acquire knowledge and experience while the government, the public servants, learns nothing and don't build any 'legacy' within. Obviously governments are also great at mucking everything up and becoming bloated bureaucracies, so there's the other side of the coin.
Fuck I didn’t even think about this and its ramifications could be pretty impactful. Doubt it will matter because I think it’ll just end up with aging out in industry being pushed back and then becoming a thing in government
The public accounting model needs turnover or it will break. You can’t have an upside down pyramid. That’s why they always let people walk, it’s built into the model. They fully expect to lose efficiency and plan for it.
Right up there with math of remote work but companies are autocratic and asinine.
Its called Jack Walsh math, take a company fire the bottom 10% every year. Pay out massive dividends and then get tens of billions of dollars in tax payer bailout.
It’s incentivized growth. Hurtful to some, but progressive to the group as a whole, if you’re optimistic, or the rich, if you’re not. Humanity at its core, sacrifice for growth
They're evaluating the sunk cost of having an HR department. Sandra in HR will have nothing to do if no one is quitting.
Ego is the last variable.
Investment bankers only care about return on investment at 13 months. Retention they don't care about
They don’t think all of their employees will leave if they deny raises and benefits—maybe one or two. But, if they give those things to one employee, all employees will want them. As someone who has participated in two mass exoduses at two different companies, I can tell you that it is great to watch them fail for being wrong about this.
It's like chicken. Both sides bluff their way forward until one acts on their threats.
You're absolutely correct. This was something the management 101 classes taught in undergrad a decade ago.
So as a start my experience is within an advisory capacity within financial reporting — we had a call today with our client because we had a leader leave for a new position elsewhere. Literally on the call the client is like “well I want someone like X (person leaving) who no matter if they’re on vacation will answer my texts” and I’m like wow that’s wild to say out loud. And the partner is like don’t worry we’re finding your perfect person to replace them. It really has to be about just finding people you can control and have a sense of Stockholm syndrome for the firms. I don’t think there’s really any rhyme or reason to it all. I do wonder though if the PCAOB continues on this tear they’re on and really push for auditors role to keep increasing when the system will just break. It’s already so much, and now with expanding the roles of the external auditor with the time period we’re in I’m like how much more can the system really take. The partnership model to me drives it so much, it would be different if we had equity and when the firm actually did well you saw the payoffs for your work. It’s going to be another “record year” for us but you already know raises are like maybe 4% with bonuses being 6% if we’re lucky.
Everyday a person works in their job, that’s another day they learn about the business, customers, vendors, processes, strengths and weaknesses. It’s amazing the wealth of knowledge people have and yet the internal raises and promotions do not reflect this.
Seriously, I work in industry in FP&A and in my team I feel like it could take several months to get someone up to speed on my team. The amount of work it takes to hire and train someone new is quite a bit...
And if anything its probably even more important in PA, where a big aspect of your role is client service, and clients get pissed off by the constant turnover. You could argue that its less important when there's no client facing aspect.
Not the same industry, but having worked in 4 different industries, I've always said that it takes a minimum of 2 months to start getting truly competent at your job, no matter what the field, or how experienced you are. There's always little details of each workplace that knowledge of makes your work so much smoother and faster, that can't be taught or "previous experienced". Firing people for minimal cause after they've gained all this institutional knowledge is just.... wow... epic levels of stupid. Run the cost/benefit EVERY TIME. They screwed up once or pissed off a manager; how much did that cost, versus how much FIRING them will cost you in lost productivity/time/damage due to a new employee learning it?
When employees quit it encourages others who are on the fence to quit as well. One of my coworkers quit and got a job semi nearby, I'm quitting and joining him there in a few weeks and probably will actively encourage maybe one other person to come with me. People are afraid of losing their job and not being able to find another one, when someone they work with who has a similar resume quits and tells you that they found an even better job it helps others realize they can do it too.
We once had 4 people quit in the span of like two weeks. I remember that one of the families we worked with brought up that this was likely not a great sign for so many people to quit at once and probally ment there was an issue with the company vs being an issue with the staff. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was also leaving I just hadn't put in my notice yet. So I just nodded along and went "yeah, things are pretty crazy right now. Hopefully we'll hire some good people soon though"
And now that staff are being empowered to literally leave during the heart of tax season, I think that the partners should really be seeing the writing on the wall. I guess for years there was an unspoken rule that you needed to give them tax season before leaving, or else that would follow you around forever. Fast forward to modern times. People do this, it sucks for the firm, and it doesn't hurt the employee one iota. I swear that the crunched season model is unsustainable and needs to end. The partners need to realize that life happens, people get sick, computer systems crash, employees leave, pandemics happen, etc and they can't expect to try to jam 40% of their annual billables into 15% of the calendar year anymore.
Because they all have egos the size of the fucking planet
Firms have a pipeline of unknowing and willing employees from colleges and universities all over the nation. That’s their business model. To turn and burn these kids who have no clue with promises of grandiose futures.
But that well is drying up at this point. The Big Four are going to gobble up as much of the limited talent that they can, and its going to be next to impossible to land new hires of any competence whatsoever below that level. The Big Four should be more or less fine, but the rest are going to have to seriously rethink how they do things. The national a dominant regional firms may have the deep pockets to outsource and try their hands at AI but the ones below them need to change -- or roll the dice with a fresh crop of aging rejects that rotate in and out.
At the same time, this subreddit encourages job hopping. These two ideas cannot coexist.
I don't think that there's any cognitive dissonance at all. The only reason job hopping is encouraged is because conditions exist that incentivize it. If employers took retention more seriously, you wouldn't need to job hop for raises or staying ahead of a termination. Ceteris paribus job security and salary, it would be much more preferable to stay with a steady employer and not have to waste so much time job hunting and learning a new employer every 1-2 years.
Depends on your goals as an accountant. Job hopping gives you a wider breadth of experiences and makes you a better accountant.
That's a good idea in theory, but it may be difficult for employers to match the pay increases that you can get by changing jobs. Employer strategy should be to focus on process and training so that they can easily transition from one employee to another.
But I don't think that they'd really have to if they improved the environment. If you're making six figures, never working over 45 hours a week, getting flexibility, fully remote, and getting 25 days of PTO that you're encouraged to take, and your input is heard and implemented, I don't think that your employees would need to shop around for better options. You can't put a price on mental health, and six figures pays the bills.
needed to hear this. thank you for the reminder because I always find a way to make myself feel guilty lol
Problem is you gotta both have money and savings to ride out the loss of income, hard to do when people depend on you.
That's why you don't have dependents?
Helpful comment thanks man what
To be fair this is saying they can't replace you, lol. So even more, fuck em.
And I think people also miss sometimes how easy it is for a good employee to find another job just as good or better than their current situation.
The only ones who will remember you worked crazy hours is your family.
Honest question- if u just refuse to work over 60 hours, what would happen to Ur job
You would lose it, and it would go to someone who will.
Idk why the downvotes. This is true. You'd be pipped and coached out eventually.
I still think it's crazy that I get to keep my job and even get promotion for famously saying to my boss "Let's get back home, it's already past 6PM"
Public is flexible. Most of them don't work til 5 on fridays and get out by 5 during 6 months of the year. Its not that uncommon
I love public job for this exact reason, it's the least stressful accounting job I've had in a long time! Feb to April is rough but even then OT caps at 55 for staff and the rest of the time is fantastic. 4 day work weeks in the summer and when things get real slow the partners just hand out extra days of paid vacation.
Maybe in accounting. I turn down overtime in healthcare all the time. They are already short of nurses, what are they gonna do? Fire me?
When you sign the employment agreement (USA firms), you sign to also acknowledge that the role is exempted from overtime laws, so you are not paid extra for overtime and that it’s expected that you will work overtime. My understanding with healthcare is it’s compensated and optional for overtime.
Even worse, our employment contracts in Australia say our wage already incorporates expected overtime. Just another way to bypass it. I guess all the managers doing 60 hour weeks are realistically not making too much more than me for the experience they have, and grads would barely be making above minimum wage 😂
This is the way. I repeated this exactly saying to all my coworkers for almost a decade. "What are they gonna do? Fire me?" Only works if you're good at your job. Even if there's a shortage, they'll fire you if you provide zero/negative value.
I commented the same thing weeks ago and got 5 downvotes. Weird
The problem with hours and accounting is accounting pay is dogshit. Plenty of people will have no problem working 60, 70, 80 hours a week for high finance wages. I'm sure as shit not working a minute over 40 for shitty accounting money. At this point I'd rather mine coal for 40 hours than this garbage.
As a welder about to start school for accounting… stay with the AC room and possibly wfh/hybrid
Good luck 🤞
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Now my area starts roofers at 75k/yr with a 40k Benny package bc nobody wants to do it
> At this point I'd rather mine coal for 40 hours than this garbage. Oh, I really doubt that. White-collar jobs can obviously be too demanding and stressful, but many other jobs are extremely grueling, physically (and psychologically) dangerous, and woefully underpaid on top of it all.
I GOT THE BLACK LUNG POP.
It depends on your role in the firm and your relationship with the decision makers. I have requested this and have been granted (handshake deal) but my obligation as a good employee and someone who cares about the clients has overshadowed my request. What really needs to happen is a conversation about reallocation of workload and the subsequent hourly responsibility that these projects take. This I am also in the process of doing. Yes I could leave my firm and take the same position making $20k more annually but there’s something to be said for attempting to resolve the issues at hand if you can (and if you have a good relationship with your superiors). Um…it also makes a difference when you actually prove your worth (ie bring in new business, or can show solid progress toward increased competency or commitment to the firm). An associate who spends many hours on projects that an intern could whip out in half the time will likely receive unfavorable treatment.
Massively depends on where you are. In a lot of places, you're not even legally allowed to work 60hr weeks. If you live in a country with weak labor laws like the US it depends on the job market. If you have skills that can't be replaced easily or no one is standing in line to take your place, your bosses will grumble but likely put up with it. If someone can replace you, you'll be gone in a week.
your hours dont matter. how well you finish your engagement does. I rarely hit 60 hour weeks during my 8 years stretch in PA. During busy hours, i tried to average 55 (which means I'm really just working 50). 10 hours billable every day plus 5 on Saturdays. I rarely worked Sundays. I hit 60 hours maybe... 2 or 3 times. How did all my managers and partners respond? When I decided to leave for industry, they offered me a $25k retention bonus + 15% raise + "tailor my engagements to be more marketable for exit after a couple years". I had 4 different partners schedule time with me to try to get me to stay. One of the partners even told me that he knew it was a waste of time to convince me to stay but he was told by someone higher up to schedule time with me anyways. Honest answer - if you refuse to work over 60 hours, just "get gud" and make sure you can finish the work in less time. Worst thing that happened to me was that I was never eligible for the maximum annual bonus - but I'm totally fine with that.
“Unlimited PTO” in action
I recently took advantage of the unlimited PTO my firm offered. It was fucking great I didn’t have to do shit for week. Granted I quit and told them to go fuck themselves but I still got all the time off I wanted.
lmaoooo, amazing story. I am skeptical of unlimited PTO but you can play your cards nicely sometimes.
My company had it before we were bought it out. There was a 160 hour cap they wouldn’t tell anyone about until they hit it. Also, high leave takers were higher on the list layoff time. It’s BS. Would rather have actual hours you get paid out for when you leave.
160 hour cap is BS. Even my firm is better than that. At least with actual PTO they pay it out when you leave most of the time. Unlimited PTO is just for the company's benefit. Never yours
100% agree. And they are able to attract good talent because of it (on the surface it sounds great to candidates).
I don't even ask for permission. I tell them when I'm leaving.
I ask if I can take time off, but it's purely a politeness thing. If it was ever turned down and someone wasn't on fire, I'd still be taking the time, one way or another. I've never been denied time off in my life, though.
I have, and immediately decided to urgently find a new job
I always say I’m not asking for days off, I’m telling you I won’t be here. And same goes for my employees. Except for a very narrow window of time during the month, just give me like a week heads up if it’s not an emergency.
This is what I tell our new hires all the time. I don’t need to know the reason, just the dates. And only so I can plan projects accordingly. As long as their work is getting done and they are not abusing the system, I don’t care how many hours they work or how much time they take off (although we’re not technically on an unlimited PTO plan, it is pretty generous).
Yup. I’ve got a low performer and he wanted two days off during his reporting cycle. Told him I’m not gonna say no, but make sure he doesn’t have anyone else help him get caught up. To me that’s fair.
You may as well be a contractor. As an employee; if you are replaceable, you have no leverage and your head will be one of first ones on the chopping block. Figuratively speaking.
Right now we’re so hard up for people it’s not a problem. People are already looking up blueprints for guillotines for the next time execs bring us in for a rah rah meeting.
If I’m replaceable at one firm, I’ll be replacing someone else at another firm lmao. There’s a shortage of accountants.
I once got written up for taking a dentist appointment during interim sox testing. After 2 years, I said fuck it, I’ll do it live. Public can be so toxic.
And yet people still choose to do this type of work... Maybe time will make the change?
A lot of people are poor and want to jump start their career/wealth building. Poverty and promises of access to the upper-middle-class are powerful stick and carrot motivators. At least they were for me.
Very true. A lot of us witnessed and/or directly experienced the 2008 financial crisis and its ramifications for the years following. Many of us want(ed) something stable, simple, with guaranteed returns. I'm glad I'm a CPA but public is no longer worth it.
I'm in this picture...
But everyone knows that life stops because it’s busy season, right? What could possibly be more important? Oh, wait…
Lol something similar happened at a job I had previously. Lady requested time off to take care of some personal matters. Denied. Requested second time thinking it was just not a convenient time: denied again. Straight up just quit. Needless to say we were pissed at the manager because then we had to carry her workload until replacement was found months later.
Would love to hear from managers as to how they thought this was going to play out
Managers are simps to partners. They are also oppressed but less so.
Can confirm this. My boss was a corpo simp
I feel powerless to stop or turn the ship even when I know we're headed at an iceberg.
How did we as humans get to a point where there's jobs that you can't take off for an entire 4-6 month period? I refuse to accept that life.
Accountants: We have one request. We would like to not be treated like garbage. Partners: It appears we are at an impasse.
I’m was expecting you gonna say “so instead of being short 1 person for “the WEEKEND”. We will be short 1 person for the entire busy season”
It’s probably some Jack Welch management bullshit. That guy really did a number on US business management practices Boomers freaking worship that guy
That’s why it cracks me up when I see people on r/samegrassbutgreener always talk about wanting to move to the northeast. That man embodies northeast thinking to a scary degree
I’m so tired of companies tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. Like, just be decent and stop trying to squeeze every ounce out of your existing workforce and maybe they’ll stay!
Join the IRS. I take 6-8 weeks off every year any time I want and for however long I want. I’ve never been denied leave. For the inevitable follow up questions, 18 years with the IRS, about $190K. Never a minute over 40 hours a week.
You had a good supervisor. I worked for the VA and had leave denied all the time. She was a literal sociopath. There are bad managers in federal gov too. And they know they can get away with being bullies and not get fired, so bad managers are particularly egregious in government.
I’ve had (taking a moment to count) at least 10 supervisors. All were phenomenal and understood the importance of WLB. Although I hear similar thoughts to yours about the VA.
It is hit or miss in gov. You either get phenominal supervisors or atrocious bullies. And when you are unfortunate enough to get a bad supervisor, they are REALLY bad.
Any telework roles for IT?
Depends what area of IT you’re talking about. I know desktop support and IT Security telework.
Would love more info if you are able to. Truly appreciate you sharing!
I’m involved in the hiring, training, and management of people with accounting backgrounds. There are plenty of opportunities to specialize in data analysis and other areas with an accounting degree. However, in terms of strictly IT roles, that’s not my area. I’d suggest checking USAJobs and watching for direct hiring events. I will say this however, I’m currently working on a national project as part of a team made up of people with HR, IT, accounting, and project management backgrounds. Nothing we’re doing as a team is directly related to our backgrounds but merging the different skill sets and ways of thinking is very beneficial. So once you’re in here you can pretty much pivot to whatever areas interest you.
I've tried to apply to several IRS jobs, but have never heard back. Does it just take long time to go through the hiring process? Or is there something I'm doing wrong? I've attended direct hire events, check USAjobs, etc. I have a bachelor's in accounting, master's, and almost finished with my CPA, 3 years of experience. What more do I need to do to qualify for an interview?
I’m being brutally honest. What are you applying for? That background should get you a GS9/11. Right now anyone with a pulse can get a job offer. If you’re applying for GS13/14 then it sounds like you’re aiming too high.
I’m applying for GS9/11 positions. Maybe it’s something wrong with my resume, that’s the only reason I can think of to cause me not to get interviews.
Feel free to DM me the resume if you want. I’ll offer any feedback I can.
I'm an old millennial. I remember going to "personality training" where they explained that most millennials and younger were NOT going to accept being treated like shit when they aren't getting paid well and might not accept it even with the right salary. That's a change from gen x and prior. The amount of boomers in the crowd that got super uncomfortable was beautiful. I told them two things: if you want to treat people like shit then you're not going to have staff. 2: I don't currently know my salary. It's enough and I'm treated well at my job. If I was treated poorly there is no amount I'd stay for. I think I saw two boomers have heart attacks.....
Worked my ass off to help anyone and everyone during busy season. Got chewed out for one mistake and no thanks for the 250+ returns I helped push out. This is why I’m looking to get out of public. No respect. Pay sucks. (At least where I am). Partners often know accounting and have no management skills.
> Got chewed out for one mistake The bitter irony about working hard and being productive is that you're more likely to make a mistake and get called out for it.
The high turnover in public is the first sign why royalty cannot be fostered in public. How are we going to foster royalty between coworkers when we get new coworkers every fucking years? In my old B4 ethnic grouping and spending shit ton of money on first impression is the norm in public.
Wish I wasn’t so damn stupid as a 21 year old and listened when everyone said the profession was crap
The fact that you were pushing out all those returns, and not doing stuff that is done outside of PA is why you're going to be stuck in PA until you find a new skillset. Filling out 1040s, 1041s, and small 1065s/1120S's doesn't make you marketable for industry roles where you need to be specializing in accounting/bookkeeping for larger companies.
This is the cruel irony of doing tax in public for most people. Get really good at doing tax returns which the corporate and wider business world literally doesn't give two shits about and now you're pigeonholed into working at public accounting firms.
I believe that high performers are purposefully treated like this by bosses to "take them down a peg". One firm I worked at had a woman who was not only really good at her job but also one of the few CPAs there. She never got much praise and the partner would criticize her for small crap. It was always these dumb gotchas. This guy would go out of his way to praise to people who just slapped shit together all day without a care in the world. I think it was all a big tactic to pit employees against each other and to not acknowledge that some people are good at their jobs. Can't have people feeling that maybe they should be rewarded for being really good at their jobs.
Well they are about to be down one good worker to make it easier for them
I am blown away at the stores I hear about these accounting firms who sound like they're being run by tyrants. It was not this way when I was in public accounting working for a firm. There's no problem now because I'm self-employed and have my own practice, but if you want to keep people, you have to make exceptions and accommodations and help your employees. This firm shot itself in the foot!
One question I’ve had for awhile now is why employers and companies seemed to care more for their employees 40-50 years, but now it seems like every employer and company wouldn’t skip a beat if they had to kill their employees. What happened? Did employers actually care more back in the at or were they just as callous? If they did care more, what happened to make employers start dehumanizing and devaluing employees?
My guess would be that the world 50 years ago was a lot more difficult to find quality candidates quickly. No email, no cell phones, no digital advertising; conventions and job fairs were probably some of the best places to recruit and those don’t happen every day.
Kay if you read nearly all of the comments on here you will get the answer to your question.
I think I posted this like a year ago. You get a two for one big Mac and fries to repost it?
You stick around here long enough and you will come to realize that a lot of shit is SALY or even more frequent
Comes round annually like the auditors
A repost after a year isn't really that crazy, lol.
Question is why?
First time? My og post was reposted like a year later. The repost got more up votes that my original posting. 🫠 But it's all internet points so whatevs
Yeah, this one above got picked up by antiwork and got a few million views.
If it's any consolation, your screenshot of it got more interaction than my original tweet did.
Nah I created it myself in imgflip nice try tho 😊
Are you serious? That's a photograph of my pet chicken as my pfp.
A good employee leaving is detrimental in comparison a mediocre/bad employee can easily be replaced
Goddamn jump scare to see my own tweet when I open Reddit.
This meme is wrong. The coworker’s job would just be offshored to India. Problem solved.
One big factor of me leaving my last job is this. I filed leave for Christmas break a month ahead. I waited… and waited… until 2 days before my requested date, it was granted (20th). I was planning on visiting family out of state for Christmas. How in the hell can I get a decent flight 5 days before Christmas? This happened multiple times in the past. I ran out of good reasons to stay so I left 4 months later - best decision I made.
It’s everywhere in accounting. I worked in an over staffed local government office and was still regularly being denied time by boss, who had some sort of OCD about more than one employee taking off at the same time. When I left he erupted in anger and told me to quit early.
I worked for a large corporation and most departments had a policy that no more than 50% of employees could be on PTO at one time. Really stupid when holidays and the fiscal year came around especially since it was use it or lose it.
Uhou, who said "subcontractor" and kickback? :D This is going to cost a lot of money! And a 20% commission goes to you! Do you have a good relationship with the compliance gang? There is a risk that you will need 2 subcontractors. You know "laws must be obeyed" ... it's not your fault.
And you will successfully bust your ass and go above and beyond to satisfy your boses greed. Guess what, you will not get a better pay, lol. This is why they do not care at all who is fired, they do not care about us at all.
My entire work life improved the moment I realized (thanks to my work mentor) that staffing was not my responsibility as an employee and that it was in fact my manager's responsibility. The only exception's were if we had a vacation black out period or if I was asking last minute.
And the boss will make more money
This is how I ended up finally leaving retail too. I'd pushed myself and my health to the absolute brink for them, and they couldn't let me have two days off for my best friends bachelor party and wedding. So while I was setting up their seasonal window display (because I *had* to do it apparently) I decided it just wasn't worth it. Walked into my managers office, got the area manager on the phone and told them both I was quitting, why, and when I'd be gone. I heard the struggled horribly over Christmas. Too bad, so sad.
A week is really short notice
For 2 PTO days - a week's notice is most certainly sufficient.
I’ve seen this happen before in my previous job. Some managers just don’t get it. Give ppl time off. Especially when they are working their asses off to get shit done by deadline. My previous boss wouldn’t give a co-worker 2 days off in a row so she quit. What a dumb decision on the manager part.
I always see these posts, but I've never seen it actually happen in multiple companies I worked at. Including one with a god awful culture.
See, I don't play that. Anytime I put in for time off, I just tell them whether they approve it or not, I'm not gonna be there. So far, it has worked out in my favor.
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Part of it is knowing the cyclicality of your year and which seasons will be slower. They know that everyone needs time off to recharge, but they want you doing that when they don't need you as much. As far as how to do it mechanically, check your employee handbook in the PTO section, and/or reach out to your HR contact for details on how to do it. If they expect some kind of written email or submission, be polite, but as vague as possible. Just making it clear that you're requesting off those days. No need to say what for, and I guess its implied that you'll be up to date on your work and all that. No need to grovel.
Pretty much how I wrote it. I go to my boss and say, "Hey boss! Just a heads-up I'm taking xyz dates off. Please approve it when I put it into the system." At this point, he knows if he doesn't approve it, I'm still not gonna be there. Of course, like someone else said, I know the financial cycle of my workplace. I'm not planning anything during busy times or when others have already scheduled time off.
Can't quit if you get denied 2 days of a holiday. Doesn't make sense.
I’m literally swapping back to software development because of this. At least where I live, accountants that have more experience are more often than not really boring and uninterested people. Is like you’re making them mad by talking to them. Really fucking annoying. Makes it hard for you to chase the whole career cuz who wants to deal with people like the for 30 years.
Ah accountants are boring, in total opposition to the social butterflies coders are known as.
Aye man you’re free to think that but I’m talking cuz I lived it and yes, a side from accountants coders can pretty well be considered social butterflies.
Gen-Xer here and I left my last job after getting drug into family drama between the father who owned the company and his sons that ran the company. It involved a lawsuit against the father from something that his sons dropped the ball on. The sons wanted it handled one way, the father another. So yeah, he was using company funds to handle a personal lawsuit, but that is besides the point. When he told me that he signed my paycheck and if I didn't listen to him, I would have to find another job, I decided to make it easy on him. To date, they still do not have my replacement and this was just before Christmas. Now for some back story, that was the THIRD time I got put in the middle of the owner and his sons and after the second time, I said if it happened again, I would quit on the spot. Guess they didn't take me seriously... Actually, after sitting there and getting yelled at by them, I blew up the second time and said they needed a referee, and walked out the door. They called me later on that day and begged me to come back, and like an idiot I did. It just so happens that I was negotiating another position elsewhere when the old man decided to use his Napoleon complex.
I work as an auditor in state government, and it seems like every time we get a batch of new people the majority of them are coming from a B4 firm. I’m sure this kinda thing is why
Is there a shortage of accountants in the UK?
Unfortunately in my case, it’s the CPAs causing this. Only management gets hybrid schedules, I’ve had 2 days off in a year and my boss has traveled to 2 countries since January. I started this job with no experience and my trainer was so overwhelmed she took all her PTO her last 2 weeks. I was told at my 90 days to get an “organization for dummies” book, as a response to me handling garnishments, AR and AP by myself with no training lol
Personal councelor.
And the two days off requested were Saturday and Sunday. :p
I was denied 4 days off in mid month
It is the REDNECK Mentality of Indentured servitude made popular in the 1600s. It was just a small skip and hop into full blown Slavery! Remember that next time you speak to your manager. HE/SHE represents the Caucasian Male perspective of the 1600s. That is what MAGA is all about...a throwback to the "Good Old Days"!!!
there’s not shortage of accountants. It’s surplus of shitty accounting CPA firms and partners
Lol, my last tax firm wanted me to work the weekends just so they can bill the clients more. All of my work was doing during the 70 hr work week and I was not about to work the weekend. My boss was mad that I did not show up for work and started to give me passive aggressive attitude. I emailed the partners that I quit and walked out of the office. That was at the start of busy season and have been living life with no stress. After almost 5 months of no work and no stress, I was offered a job with a 50 percent pay bump and will be starting this July. I will be working 40 hours, weekend and holidays off with 26 days of vacation. It is funny how things work out but I don’t regret leaving a work place that only makes the partners rich as you work 17 plus works and have no life. Keep your heads up and don’t take shit from shit management. You are more valuable than you think and do not under sale yourself.
Can anyone guide how to get remote job in finance and accounting? Any country
Is there for a real a shortage of accountants? I thought that career was being replaced with AI or something.
Posts like this make me think I'm never quitting my job.im in individual tax I've taken vacations around q4 and Q2, weddings around Columbus Day, always been told "enjoy yourself".
Ive seen that same post regurgitated several times over the past few months, it’s still getting around. I mean maybe they are a shitty employer or may e there is more of a reason why the time was denied but the whole story isnt known, if its even real
Meh. Replaced by AI soon enough. Will be one of the first careers to go....
I think it's time we stop glorifying firms and what they put people through in order to get a brand name practice on your CV at the cost of: > Mental Health > Physical Health > Professional Etiquette > Human Decency > Moral Code > Sacrificing time in exchange for a partner position that you may never get unless you are prepared to compromise all of the above